[Baypiggies] What am I missing using a text editor with some good Python features instead of an IDE?

jim jim at well.com
Tue Mar 6 20:01:50 CET 2012



    It's been a couple of years at least since we've 
had a talk on development tools. Wanna summarize with 
Q&A at a BayPIGgies meeting? 



On Tue, 2012-03-06 at 10:39 -0800, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>         Hi again. I use BBEdit on the Mac and love it for editing all
>         sorts of
>         text files. It does a very nice job with Python programs: it
>         handles
>         indentation well; it shows me balanced opens when typing
>         closing ), ],
>         and }; it has a drop-down for all the subroutine names, and a
>         few
>         other things.
>         
>         However, I haven't used any of the free/paid Python IDEs, and
>         I
>         realized that I might be missing some Really Cool Features
>         that would
>         cause me to use an IDE for my Python work and my text editor
>         for the
>         rest of the text work (like the HTML files documenting the
>         Python...).
>         What useful features am I missing?
>         
>         Yes, this could cause a "my IDE is best" war, but I think some
>         of us
>         on the sidelines would benefit. :-)
> 
> 
> The exact same conversation just happened on the SF Ruby Meetup
> mailing list.  Here's a link
> (http://www.sfruby.info/messages/30916602/).  Unfortunately, Meetup
> doesn't have a threaded view of the mailing list.
> 
> 
> Here's a summary of my opinion on the subject:
> 
> 
>  * Lots of people still like Vim.
> 
> 
>  * Lots of people are using the new Janus set of plugins for Vim.  I
> tried it, and it didn't bring me joy at all.
> 
> 
>  * Emacs seems to be more popular for Python than for Ruby.
> 
> 
>  * Sublime Text 2 is an up-and-coming popular contender in the text
> editor wars among Ruby users.  I'm a Vim diehard, but I've been using
> Sublime Text 2 for a few weeks now. Beware, it's commercial.
> 
> 
>  * TextMate has traditionally been the editor of choice for Rails
> developers.
> 
> 
>  * As far as I can tell, IntelliJ is the best IDE for Java, PyCharm is
> the best IDE for Python, and RubyMine is the best IDE for Ruby.
>  They're all from the same company.  They all cost money.
> 
> 
>  * There are lots of things that a good IDE can do that a text editor
> can't.
> 
> 
>  * Generally, an IDE speeds up my development workflow in many ways,
> but using Vim's keybindings speeds up my text editing.
> 
> 
>  * PyCharm's Vim keybindings are okay, but not fantastic.  PyCharm's
> editor isn't very sophisticated.
> 
> 
>  * There are lots of ways in which Python and Ruby reduce the
> effectiveness of a good IDE.  I.e. it's less useful for Python and
> Ruby programmers than it is for Java programmers.
> 
> 
>  * PyCharm and RubyMine really are amazing.  I encourage you to watch
> the videos on the website to get a feel for what they can do.
> 
> 
>  * PyCharm and RubyMine aren't without flaws.  They are big software.
>  Sometimes they don't work as promised.  Sometimes they hang.
>  Sometimes they crash.  They almost always eat lots of memory,
> although that's less relevant these days since I have so much memory.
> 
> 
>  * In my own experience, PyCharm and RubyMine can help you write
> software quicker and more correctly, and they can also help you
> refactor software quicker and more correctly.  However, when it comes
> down to moving and tweaking text, you can't beat Vim.
> 
> 
>  * There was a great IDE panel at last year's PyCon.  PyCharm came out
> on top.  Most Python programmers don't care.
> 
> 
>  * Sublime Text 2 is easier to use, easier to learn, and has more
> *built in* power than Vim and Emacs.  Sure, Emacs lets you do anything
> with Emacs Lisp.  Sublime Text 2 lets you do "anything" with Python
> and/or the external programming language of your choice.  It is
> compatible with TextMate bundles.  It has many tricks that other
> editors fundamentally lack (such as multiple cursors, a 10,000 foot
> view of your code, and the ability to guess at what the right
> indentation settings for a random file are).
> 
> 
>  * NetBeans with the jVi plugin is a good compromise of IDE
> functionality with very good Vim keybindings, if that floats your
> boat.
> 
> 
>  * I just can't get into Eclipse no matter how hard I try.  PyCharm is
> simply better.
> 
> 
> Ok, I will now don a fireproof vest and hide in an undisclosed
> location.  I really do love talking about editors and IDEs.  It's too
> bad the subject always devolves into flame wars.
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> -jj
> 
> 
> -- 
> In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
> with great love. -- Mother Teresa
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