From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Thu Jun  3 02:45:53 2010
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 17:45:53 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Ready-to-run screenscraping tool
Message-ID: <AANLkTinFwbhNV3r5P9Z5ZdBEuNcGsy-zcimNgWQhrqLw@mail.gmail.com>

Can any of you recommend a (ready to use) tool that will download a
website (html , css, etc) and follow the links on the site as well?
A friend of mine is in dire straits and needs something proven that
doesn't need to be tweaked/hacked to get working.

Would prefer a tool that runs on Windows, thanks.

From onewingaengel at gmail.com  Thu Jun  3 02:54:22 2010
From: onewingaengel at gmail.com (John Menerick)
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 17:54:22 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Ready-to-run screenscraping tool
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinFwbhNV3r5P9Z5ZdBEuNcGsy-zcimNgWQhrqLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinFwbhNV3r5P9Z5ZdBEuNcGsy-zcimNgWQhrqLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C0A09B00-4CCB-4275-BA74-C5861D13B7B1@gmail.com>

wget


On Jun 2, 2010, at 5:45 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote:

> Can any of you recommend a (ready to use) tool that will download a
> website (html , css, etc) and follow the links on the site as well?
> A friend of mine is in dire straits and needs something proven that
> doesn't need to be tweaked/hacked to get working.
> 
> Would prefer a tool that runs on Windows, thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From glen at glenjarvis.com  Thu Jun  3 02:54:06 2010
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 17:54:06 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Ready-to-run screenscraping tool
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinFwbhNV3r5P9Z5ZdBEuNcGsy-zcimNgWQhrqLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinFwbhNV3r5P9Z5ZdBEuNcGsy-zcimNgWQhrqLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinEqFlR5DHmrAVrWGq2P2DnLpwquhDepikVqu9y@mail.gmail.com>

Tony,

   I honestly don't think this would be hard to knock up with httplib.. I've
used wget for single pages (does it work for following links)? If so, that's
the fastest solution... (but I use it on Linux, I don't know it's distro on
Windows)....

Glen

On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can any of you recommend a (ready to use) tool that will download a
> website (html , css, etc) and follow the links on the site as well?
> A friend of mine is in dire straits and needs something proven that
> doesn't need to be tweaked/hacked to get working.
>
> Would prefer a tool that runs on Windows, thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
Whatever you can do or imagine, begin it;
boldness has beauty, magic, and power in it.

-- Goethe
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From jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com  Thu Jun  3 03:55:33 2010
From: jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com (Jeremy Fishman)
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 18:55:33 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Ready-to-run screenscraping tool
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinFwbhNV3r5P9Z5ZdBEuNcGsy-zcimNgWQhrqLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinFwbhNV3r5P9Z5ZdBEuNcGsy-zcimNgWQhrqLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinvuFFVgqDzyLggFtsdBWCUqbwVluodqjlmpUVO@mail.gmail.com>

http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/mechanize/

On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can any of you recommend a (ready to use) tool that will download a
> website (html , css, etc) and follow the links on the site as well?
> A friend of mine is in dire straits and needs something proven that
> doesn't need to be tweaked/hacked to get working.
>
> Would prefer a tool that runs on Windows, thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From fenn at SDF.LONESTAR.ORG  Thu Jun  3 05:47:53 2010
From: fenn at SDF.LONESTAR.ORG (ben lipkowitz)
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 03:47:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Ready-to-run screenscraping tool
In-Reply-To: <C0A09B00-4CCB-4275-BA74-C5861D13B7B1@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinFwbhNV3r5P9Z5ZdBEuNcGsy-zcimNgWQhrqLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<C0A09B00-4CCB-4275-BA74-C5861D13B7B1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.64.1006030344340.11563@sdf.lonestar.org>

normally I do:
wget -rk -c -np -nc
however it doesn't always grab the css files if they are located in a weird place.

i've used httrack on windows in the past.
http://www.httrack.com/

On Wed, 2 Jun 2010, John Menerick wrote:
> wget
> On Jun 2, 2010, at 5:45 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote:
>
>> Can any of you recommend a (ready to use) tool that will download a
>> website (html , css, etc) and follow the links on the site as well?
>> A friend of mine is in dire straits and needs something proven that
>> doesn't need to be tweaked/hacked to get working.
>>
>> Would prefer a tool that runs on Windows, thanks.

From voidref at gmail.com  Thu Jun  3 18:51:16 2010
From: voidref at gmail.com (Alan Westbrook)
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 09:51:16 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Ready-to-run screenscraping tool
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.64.1006030344340.11563@sdf.lonestar.org>
References: <AANLkTinFwbhNV3r5P9Z5ZdBEuNcGsy-zcimNgWQhrqLw@mail.gmail.com> 
	<C0A09B00-4CCB-4275-BA74-C5861D13B7B1@gmail.com>
	<Pine.NEB.4.64.1006030344340.11563@sdf.lonestar.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTink2_q2nkaM7RAe_TmGoMvy-q2CoTQIgykLlGUy@mail.gmail.com>

There is a plugin for Firefox called 'scrapbook' that I have used in
the past which does a pretty good job.

Alan

On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 8:47 PM, ben lipkowitz <fenn at sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
> normally I do:
> wget -rk -c -np -nc
> however it doesn't always grab the css files if they are located in a weird
> place.
>
> i've used httrack on windows in the past.
> http://www.httrack.com/
>
> On Wed, 2 Jun 2010, John Menerick wrote:
>>
>> wget
>> On Jun 2, 2010, at 5:45 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote:
>>
>>> Can any of you recommend a (ready to use) tool that will download a
>>> website (html , css, etc) and follow the links on the site as well?
>>> A friend of mine is in dire straits and needs something proven that
>>> doesn't need to be tweaked/hacked to get working.
>>>
>>> Would prefer a tool that runs on Windows, thanks.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From john_re at fastmail.us  Fri Jun  4 11:57:03 2010
From: john_re at fastmail.us (giovanni_re)
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 02:57:03 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] BerkeleyTIP Join June Global Free SW HW Culture Mtgs
 via VOIP or in Berkeley
Message-ID: <1275645423.5110.1378441381@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Scientific Python video this month.

You're invited to join in with the friendly people at the BerkeleyTIP
global meeting  -  newbie to Ph.D. -  everyone is invited.

Get a headset & join using VOIP online, or come to Berkeley.

1st step: Join the mailing list:
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal

Watch the videos.  Discuss them on VOIP.
8 great videos/talks this month - see below.

Starting off year 3 of BerkeleyTIP  :)

Join with us at the LOCATION TO BE DETERMINED
 at the University of California at Berkeley,
or join from your home via VOIP,
or send this email locally, create a local meeting, & join via VOIP:
  Tip: a wifi cafe is a great place to meet. :)

JUNE 5 & 20 AT UCB MEETING LOCATIONS TO BE DETERMINED.
PLEASE VIEW THE BTIP WEBSITE & MAILING LIST PAGES FOR THE LATEST
DETIALS.
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal


BerkeleyTIP  -  Educational, Productive, Social
For Learning about, Sharing, & Producing, All Free SW HW & Culture.
TIP ==  Talks, Installfest, Project & Programming Party
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip

=====  CONTENTS:  1) 2010 JUNE VIDEOS;  2) 2010 JUNE MEETING DAYS,
TIMES, LOCATIONS;  3) LOCAL MEETING AT U. C. Berkeley LOCATION TO BE
DETERMINED;  4) HOT TOPICS;  5) PLEASE  RSVP  PROBABILISTICALLY, THANKS 
:) ;  6) INSTALLFEST;  SPECIAL: FREE 7th Annual BERKELEY WORLD MUSIC
FESTIVAL June 5 Sat;  7) ARRIVING FIRST AT THE MEETING: MAKE A
"BerkeleyTIP" SIGN;  8) IRC: #berkeleytip  on  irc.freenode.net; 9) VOIP
FOR GLOBAL MEETING;  10) VOLUNTEERING, TO DOs;  11) MAILING LISTS:
BerkeleyTIP-Global, LocalBerkeley, Announce;  12) ANYTHING I FORGOT TO
MENTION?;  13) FOR FORWARDING


=======================================================================
=====  1)  2010 JUNE VIDEOS
Super Computing for Business, Brian Modra, CLUG
State of the Linux Union 2010, Jim Zemlin, Linux Foundation
Journaled Soft-Updates, Dr. Kirk McKusick, BSDCan 2010
Scientific data visualization using Mayavi2, Gael Varoquaux,
Python4ScienceUCB
Bringing OLPC to children in Afghanistan, Carol Ruth Silver, OLPC-SF
Text-to-Speech in Ubuntu with Kttsd Kmouth Festival, blip.tv
Rabbi Rabbs, the UnixRabbi, leads a group of Unix geeks, Comedy, UUASC,
BS"D, 2003
The Great Debate - Are We Alone?, Geoff Marcy and Dan Werthimer, SETI at UC
Berkeley 

Thanks to all the speakers, organizations, & videographers. :)
[Please alert the speakers that their talks are scheduled for June for
BTIP (if you are with the group that recorded their talk), because I may
not have time to do that.  Thanks. :)  ]

URLs for video download & full details:
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos

Download & watch these talks before the BTIP meetings. Discuss at the
meeting.

Email the mailing list, tell us what videos you'll watch & want to
discuss:
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal

Know any other video sources? - please email me.
_Your_ group should video record & post online your meeting's talks!


=====  2)  2010 JUNE MEETING DAYS, TIMES, LOCATIONS
In person meetings on 1st Saturday & 3rd Sunday, every month.
June  5 & 20, 12N-3P USA-Pacific time, Saturday, Sunday

Online only meeting using VOIP:
June 14 & 29, 5-6P   USA-Pacific time, Monday, Tuesday

Mark your calendars.

 5 Sat 12N-3P PDST = 3-6P EDST = 19-22 UTC
14 Mon   5-6P PDST = 8-9P EDST =  0- 1 UTC Tues 15
20 Sun 12N-3P PDST = 3-6P EDST = 19-22 UTC
29 Tues  5-6P PDST = 8-9P EDST =  0- 1 UTC Wed 30

USA-PacificDaylightSavingsTime is -7 hours UTC, due to daylight savings
currently. Times listed above should be double checked by you for
accuracy.


=====  3)  LOCAL MEETING AT  U. C. BERKELEY  -  LOCATION TO BE
DETERMINED
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/directions
RSVP please.  See below.  It greatly helps my planning.  But, _do_ come
if you forgot to RSVP.

THE JUNE 5 & 20 ON CAMPUS MEETING LOCATIONS ARE CURRENTLY TO BE
DETERMINED.  HOPEFULLY KNOW ON FRIDAY JUNE 4.  PLEASE VIEW THE BTIP
WEBSITE & MAILING LIST FOR THE FINALIZED LOCATION.  THANK YOU.

ALWAYS BE SURE TO CHECK THE BTIP WEBSITE _&_ MAILING LIST FOR THE LATEST
LAST MINUTE DETAILS & CHANGES, BEFORE COMING TO THE MEETING! :)
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal


DO BRING A VOIP HEADSET, available for $10-30 at most electronics retail
stores, & a laptop computer, so you are able to communicate with the
global BTIP community via VOIP.  It is highly recommended that you have
a voip headset, & not rely on a laptop's built in microphone & speakers,
because the headphones keep the noise level down.  Bringing a headset is
not required, but is a great part of the being able to communicate with
the global community. :)

Clothing: Typically 55-80 degrees F.  Weather:
http://www.wunderground.com/auto/sfgate/CA/Berkeley.html

Other location local meeting possibilities:
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/local-meetings
Create a local meeting in your town.


=====  4)  HOT TOPICS
Oracle owns Sun - Free SW implications? OpenOffice?
OpenOffice - Ready for college Fall 2010?
MakerBot, RepRap - Personal Making - Like where PCs were in 1975?
Android phones - Besting iPhone? worthwhile? How knowable is the hw?
  - Can BSD be run on Android phones?
iPad, iPhone & iPod- rooting & running GNU(Linux) & BSD


=====  5)  PLEASE  RSVP  PROBABILISTICALLY, THANKS  :)
If you think there is a >70% chance ("likely") you'll come to the in
person meeting in Berkeley, please RSVP to me. Thanks.  It helps my
planning.  Please _do_ come even if you haven't RSVP'd, it's not
required.

Better yet, join the BerkeleyTIP-Global mailing list, send the RSVP
there, & tell us what things you're interested in, or what videos you'll
try to watch - so we can know what videos are popular, & we might watch
them too. :)
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal


=====  6)  INSTALLFEST
Get help installing & using Free Software, Hardware & Culture.
Laptops only, typically.  There isn't easy access for physically
bringing desktop boxes here.

RSVP _HIGHLY RECOMMENDED_ if you want installfest help.  Please RSVP to
me, Giovanni, at the from address for this announcement, or better, join
& send email to the BTIP-Global mailing list telling us what you'd like
help with.  This way we can be better prepared to help you, & you might
get valuable advice from the mailing list members.

If you are new to using free software, an excellent system would be the
KUbuntu GNU(Linux) software.  It is very comprehensive, fairly easy to
use (similar to Windows or Mac), & suitable for personal, home,
university, or business use.

We are also glad to try to help people with software who join via VOIP. 
Please email the mailing list with requests that you want help with, so
we can try to be prepared better to help you.

Installfest volunteers/helpers always welcome, in person, or via VOIP.
:)


=====    SPECIAL  -  MUSIC IN BERKELEY JUNE 5 SATURDAY
=====  Also June 5 Sat in Berkeley, after BTIP:
=====  FREE 7th Annual BERKELEY WORLD MUSIC FESTIVAL
=====  Telegraph Avenue   12 Noon - 9 pm
"Berkeley World Music Fest... has some of our best world musicians 
who call East Bay home...a wonderful event, and intimate, mix of
outdoor performances in cafes and shops(the best music People's Park
gets each year along Telegraph Ave. (Larry Kelp, KPFA music host)"

Continuous music outdoors & in cafes  
http://www.berkeleyworldmusic.com/entry.asp?PageID=118


=====  7)  ARRIVING FIRST AT THE MEETING:  MAKE A "BerkeleyTIP" SIGN
If you get to the meeting & don't see a "BerkeleyTIP" sign up yet,
please:
1) Make a BTIP sign on an 8x11 paper & put it at your table,
2) Email the mailing list, or join on IRC, & let us know you are there.

Ask someone if you could use their computer for a minute to look
something up, or send an email.  People are usually very friendly &
willing to help.  We can also email you a temporary guest AirBears
account login.

We will have wifi guest accounts available for BTIP attendees.  Be sure
you have wifi capable equipment.  Be Prepared: Bring a multi-outlet
extension power cord.


=====  8)  IRC:  #berkeleytip  on  irc.freenode.net
For help with anything, especially how to get VOIP working, & text
communication.


=====  9)  VOIP FOR GLOBAL MEETING
Speak & listen to everyone globally using VOIP.
Get a headset!  See some VOIP instructions here:
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/voice-voip-conferencing


===== 10)  VOLUNTEERING, TO DOs
Enjoy doing or learning something(s)?  Help out BTIP in that area. 
Website development, mailing list management, video locating, VOIP
server (FreeSwitch, Asterisk) or client (Ekiga, SFLPhone,...), creating
a local meeting.  Join the mailing list & let us know.  Your offers of
free help are always welcome here. :)


=====  11)  MAILING LISTS:  BerkeleyTIP-Global, LocalBerkeley, Announce
Everyone should join the BerkeleyTIP-Global list:
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal
Say "hi", tell us your interests, & what videos you'll like to watch.

Info on all lists here:
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/mailing-lists


=====  12)  ANYTHING I FORGOT TO MENTION?
Please join & email the BerkeleyTIP-Global mailing list.


=====  13)  FOR FORWARDING
You are invited to forward this message anywhere it would be
appreciated.
Better yet, use it to create a local meeting.  Invite & get together
with your friends locally, & join in with us all globally. :)


Looking forward to meeting with you in person, or online. :)

Giovanni

From max at theslimmers.net  Fri Jun  4 22:44:03 2010
From: max at theslimmers.net (Max Slimmer)
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 13:44:03 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] multiprocessing connection timeout
Message-ID: <AANLkTikorJWIgmD1UAtSrsnnHWwrvb74fUrfZIBFnkMz@mail.gmail.com>

I am trying to use the Listeners/Clients from
multiprocessing.connection. The primary reason for using these modules
(for me) is to take advantage of the authentication.

The problem I am finding is if I try to instantiate a Client( address,
authkey) and there is nothing listening at address the code hangs,
importing socket and setting defaulttimeout doesn't seem to help.

How can I establish a socket connection and take advantage of
"multiprocessing.connection.deliver_challenge(connection, authkey) "
and answerChallenge()  can I pass the socket as connection argument?
and am I correct that if I make a low level socket connection I can
have it timeout if it fail's to connect either with
socket.create_connection(address[, timeout])  or by setting
defaulttimeout.

thanks,

max

From slander at unworkable.org  Mon Jun  7 20:22:27 2010
From: slander at unworkable.org (Harry Tormey)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 11:22:27 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] PyGameSF meetup Wednesday June 9th 6pm @ Main SF
 public library 4th floor Sycip room
Message-ID: <20100607182226.GA5305@unworkable.org>

Hi All,
The June PyGameSF meet up will be at the Sycip conference room on the fourth floor of the 
main San Francisco public library beside civic center BART. The library closes at 8pm so we 
will reconvene to frjtz on hayes street for dinner/drinks afterwords. This month's
presentations are:

* Al Sweigart: "Invent Your Own Computer Games with Python."

Al's presentation will cover his book which teaches kids (and adult beginners) how to program by making 
computer games. Al will talk about the methodology his book uses, things he's learned about teaching.

The book is under a Creative Commons license and is available for free at http://inventwithpython.com.
The book is also for sale in print on Amazon.com.


* Casey Duncan: "Grease: it's a game framework, no it's a game engine, no it's a framework for making game engines; and now it's more than just vaporware!"

Grease is an open-source project for rapid Python game development. Casey is going to give a little guided tour of 
the not-just-sci-fi-anymore Grease API and talk a bit about future directions. He is also going to talk about using 
Sphinx to document Grease, and how you can, and should, use it to document your own projects and ideas.

PyGame SF is an informal group meet up in San Francisco for Software engineers interested in python, OpenGL, audio, 
pygame, SDL, programming and generally anything to do with multimedia development. The format of our meetings typically 
involve several people giving presentations on projects they are developing followed by group discussion and feedback.

If anyone else would like to give a micro presentation, show demos or just talk about what they are doing or generally 
give examples of any relevant software they are working on please feel free to head along.

To subscribe to the pygamesf mailing list simply email
pygame-sf+subscribe at unworkable.org

-- 
Harry Tormey
Co Founder P2P Research
http://p2presearch.com
Founder PyGameSF
http://pygamesf.org
Director
http://snaptic.com

From hyperneato at gmail.com  Wed Jun  9 09:08:39 2010
From: hyperneato at gmail.com (Isaac)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 00:08:39 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] history of import this
Message-ID: <AANLkTikU2w7W0YABgpAmwBwCCcAh1rXZiDbFb1lQjDjc@mail.gmail.com>

In case were curious about The Zen of Python:

http://www.wefearchange.org/2010/06/import-this-and-zen-of-python.html

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jun  9 17:38:42 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 08:38:42 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] history of import this
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikU2w7W0YABgpAmwBwCCcAh1rXZiDbFb1lQjDjc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikU2w7W0YABgpAmwBwCCcAh1rXZiDbFb1lQjDjc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100609153842.GA11312@panix.com>

On Wed, Jun 09, 2010, Isaac wrote:
>
> In case were curious about The Zen of Python:
> 
> http://www.wefearchange.org/2010/06/import-this-and-zen-of-python.html

Note that the Pythonic way to get the Zen these days is this:

python -m this
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra

From keith at dartworks.biz  Wed Jun  9 18:52:11 2010
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 09:52:11 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] history of import this
In-Reply-To: <20100609153842.GA11312@panix.com>
References: <AANLkTikU2w7W0YABgpAmwBwCCcAh1rXZiDbFb1lQjDjc@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100609153842.GA11312@panix.com>
Message-ID: <20100609095211.0773a28b@dartworks.biz>

=== On Wed, 06/09, Aahz wrote: ===
> Note that the Pythonic way to get the Zen these days is this:
> 
> python -m this

===

Ya, that's awesome. It has got to go into my sigline...

-- Keith Dart

-- 
-- --------------------
Keith Dart
<keith at dartworks.biz>
python -m this
=======================

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jun 10 17:17:06 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 08:17:06 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] history of import this
In-Reply-To: <20100609095211.0773a28b@dartworks.biz>
References: <AANLkTikU2w7W0YABgpAmwBwCCcAh1rXZiDbFb1lQjDjc@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100609153842.GA11312@panix.com>
	<20100609095211.0773a28b@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <20100610151706.GC29174@panix.com>

On Wed, Jun 09, 2010, Keith Dart wrote:
> === On Wed, 06/09, Aahz wrote: ===
>>
>> Note that the Pythonic way to get the Zen these days is this:
>> 
>> python -m this
> 
> Ya, that's awesome. It has got to go into my sigline...

BTW, in case it wasn't clear, I was not being serious about
python -m this
being more pythonic (except in the general sense of -m being a useful
command line option that is a recent addition -- I think -m was added in
Python 2.4 or 2.5).  There is something beautiful about "import this"
that gets lost that way.  You can of course do
python -c 'import this'
but that wouldn't have been funny.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra

From kenobi at gmail.com  Thu Jun 10 17:31:18 2010
From: kenobi at gmail.com (Rick Kwan)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 08:31:18 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] ?: Lucasfilm contact
Message-ID: <AANLkTik0e86Ee-5eeEeyFaYfLmDOenSmd_EojYk3LYY-@mail.gmail.com>

(Sorry for misuse of the mailing list, but this is potentially
time-critical, and I'm almost sure someone here has an answer.)

I need a contact point for someone inside Lucasfilm, preferably in
Lucas Licensing or the hostmaster (not just the generic e-mail
address, which I've already tried).  I've already sent mail to Rob,
the recruiter there.

Of course, feel free to respond to me off-list.

--Rick Kwan

From akleider at sonic.net  Fri Jun 11 01:53:07 2010
From: akleider at sonic.net (akleider at sonic.net)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 16:53:07 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] history of import this
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikU2w7W0YABgpAmwBwCCcAh1rXZiDbFb1lQjDjc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikU2w7W0YABgpAmwBwCCcAh1rXZiDbFb1lQjDjc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3dac43bff163e8383c54c7cbc6404fd6.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net>


This is pretty cool.
What syntax would one use to capture the string that gets printed when one
>>> import this
????

> In case were curious about The Zen of Python:
>
> http://www.wefearchange.org/2010/06/import-this-and-zen-of-python.html
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>



From kenobi at gmail.com  Fri Jun 11 01:58:06 2010
From: kenobi at gmail.com (Rick Kwan)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 16:58:06 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] ?: Lucasfilm contact
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik0e86Ee-5eeEeyFaYfLmDOenSmd_EojYk3LYY-@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik0e86Ee-5eeEeyFaYfLmDOenSmd_EojYk3LYY-@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimMWzyrPmyAMkgzd00NhM2x_x8cdPOWu6MZIYQv@mail.gmail.com>

Okay, one more time.  I haven't heard from anyone.  Does someone here
have a contact point?
--Rick

On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Rick Kwan <kenobi at gmail.com> wrote:
> (Sorry for misuse of the mailing list, but this is potentially
> time-critical, and I'm almost sure someone here has an answer.)
>
> I need a contact point for someone inside Lucasfilm, preferably in
> Lucas Licensing or the hostmaster (not just the generic e-mail
> address, which I've already tried). ?I've already sent mail to Rob,
> the recruiter there.
>
> Of course, feel free to respond to me off-list.
>
> --Rick Kwan
>

From langton2 at llnl.gov  Fri Jun 11 01:59:24 2010
From: langton2 at llnl.gov (Langton, Asher)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 16:59:24 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] history of import this
In-Reply-To: <3dac43bff163e8383c54c7cbc6404fd6.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <C836CA6C.939%langton2@llnl.gov>

On 6/10/10 4:53 PM, "akleider at sonic.net" <akleider at sonic.net> wrote:
> 
> This is pretty cool.
> What syntax would one use to capture the string that gets printed when one
>>>> import this
> ????

Try this:
>>> import this
>>> s = "".join([this.d.get(c, c) for c in this.s])

To where this comes from, take a look at this.py in the Python source code.


From kelly at nttmcl.com  Fri Jun 11 03:30:58 2010
From: kelly at nttmcl.com (Kelly Yancey)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 18:30:58 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] history of import this
In-Reply-To: <C836CA6C.939%langton2@llnl.gov>
References: <C836CA6C.939%langton2@llnl.gov>
Message-ID: <4C1191D2.5020108@nttmcl.com>

On 6/10/2010 4:59 PM, Langton, Asher wrote:
> On 6/10/10 4:53 PM, "akleider at sonic.net"<akleider at sonic.net>  wrote:
>>
>> This is pretty cool.
>> What syntax would one use to capture the string that gets printed when one
>>>>> import this
>> ????
>
> Try this:
>>>> import this
>>>> s = "".join([this.d.get(c, c) for c in this.s])
>
> To where this comes from, take a look at this.py in the Python source code.
>

The real trick is capturing the string that gets printed by "import 
this" without actually printing it to stdout when you import this.

The shortest, albeit somewhat hackish, way I can think of is to use the 
hint that Aahz dropped earlier in the thread:

 >>> import subprocess
 >>> wisdom = subprocess.Popen(['python', '-m', 'this'],
...                           stdout=subprocess.PIPE).communicate()[0]
 >>> print wisdom
The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters

Beautiful is better than ugly.
Explicit is better than implicit.
Simple is better than complex.
Complex is better than complicated.
Flat is better than nested.
Sparse is better than dense.
Readability counts.
Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
Although practicality beats purity.
Errors should never pass silently.
Unless explicitly silenced.
In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.
There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.
Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch.
Now is better than never.
Although never is often better than *right* now.
If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea.
If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea.
Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!


Kelly

From keith at dartworks.biz  Fri Jun 11 04:01:34 2010
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 19:01:34 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] history of import this
In-Reply-To: <3dac43bff163e8383c54c7cbc6404fd6.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net>
References: <AANLkTikU2w7W0YABgpAmwBwCCcAh1rXZiDbFb1lQjDjc@mail.gmail.com>
	<3dac43bff163e8383c54c7cbc6404fd6.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <20100610190134.68eff23c@dartworks.biz>

=== On Thu, 06/10, akleider at sonic.net wrote: ===
> What syntax would one use to capture the string that gets printed
> when one
> >>> import this  
> ????

===

This also works:

===============
#!/usr/bin/python

import sys

from StringIO import StringIO

buf = StringIO()
sys.stdout = buf

import this

s = buf.getvalue()

sys.stdout = sys.__stdout__

print s

# The string 's' now has the text. 

================

This method does not require a subprocess or knowledge of the this.py
internals. However, the first suggestion is probably best since the
source is easily inspected. :-)


-- Keith Dart

-- 
-- --------------------
Keith Dart
<keith at dartworks.biz>
python -m this
=======================

From paul.hoffman at gmail.com  Fri Jun 11 04:36:06 2010
From: paul.hoffman at gmail.com (Paul Hoffman)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 19:36:06 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] history of import this
In-Reply-To: <20100610190134.68eff23c@dartworks.biz>
References: <AANLkTikU2w7W0YABgpAmwBwCCcAh1rXZiDbFb1lQjDjc@mail.gmail.com>
	<3dac43bff163e8383c54c7cbc6404fd6.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net>
	<20100610190134.68eff23c@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikgbHbhq3KB-py2LvQMi1m3caMZEAUDxXnZM04M@mail.gmail.com>

This is feeling more and more like a Perl forum... <ducking>

From eric at ericwalstad.com  Fri Jun 11 04:46:02 2010
From: eric at ericwalstad.com (Eric Walstad)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 19:46:02 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] history of import this
In-Reply-To: <20100610190134.68eff23c@dartworks.biz>
References: <AANLkTikU2w7W0YABgpAmwBwCCcAh1rXZiDbFb1lQjDjc@mail.gmail.com>
	<3dac43bff163e8383c54c7cbc6404fd6.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net>
	<20100610190134.68eff23c@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikAwnJA7cmAnQOgEe3kjDnuEPQe8knrkRJ7ccYq@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 7:01 PM, Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz> wrote:
> === On Thu, 06/10, akleider at sonic.net wrote: ===
>> What syntax would one use to capture the string that gets printed
>> when one
>> >>> import this
>> ????

Why not just decode the rot13 string in the this module?

def mra_bs_clguba():
    """Ergheaf gur Mra bs Clguba"""
    from this import s
    d = {}
    for c in (65, 97):
        for i in range(26):
            d[chr(i+c)] = chr((i+13) % 26 + c)
    return "".join([d.get(c, c) for c in s])

if __name__ == '__main__':
    print(mra_bs_clguba())


Eric.

From kelly at nttmcl.com  Fri Jun 11 05:20:05 2010
From: kelly at nttmcl.com (Kelly Yancey)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:20:05 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] history of import this
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikAwnJA7cmAnQOgEe3kjDnuEPQe8knrkRJ7ccYq@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikU2w7W0YABgpAmwBwCCcAh1rXZiDbFb1lQjDjc@mail.gmail.com>	<3dac43bff163e8383c54c7cbc6404fd6.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net>	<20100610190134.68eff23c@dartworks.biz>
	<AANLkTikAwnJA7cmAnQOgEe3kjDnuEPQe8knrkRJ7ccYq@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C11AB65.7010709@nttmcl.com>

On 6/10/2010 7:46 PM, Eric Walstad wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 7:01 PM, Keith Dart<keith at dartworks.biz>  wrote:
>> === On Thu, 06/10, akleider at sonic.net wrote: ===
>>> What syntax would one use to capture the string that gets printed
>>> when one
>>>>>> import this
>>> ????
>
> Why not just decode the rot13 string in the this module?
>
> def mra_bs_clguba():
>      """Ergheaf gur Mra bs Clguba"""
>      from this import s
>      d = {}
>      for c in (65, 97):
>          for i in range(26):
>              d[chr(i+c)] = chr((i+13) % 26 + c)
>      return "".join([d.get(c, c) for c in s])
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>      print(mra_bs_clguba())
>
>

That is what Asher's original post did, except that he utilized the 
ROT13 mapping that the this module already calculated and stored in the 
dictionary d.

 >>> import this
 >>> s = "".join([this.d.get(c, c) for c in this.s])

The problem with both, in my mind, is that both the "import this" line 
and the "from this import s" lines spam stdout.

Kelly

From charles.merriam at gmail.com  Sun Jun 20 04:11:31 2010
From: charles.merriam at gmail.com (Charles Merriam)
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 19:11:31 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Mercurial status?
Message-ID: <AANLkTik-tswnIoPxKorBAmjNSdCshTTSJTA3Xl_iSfb5@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm setting up the dev environment for another start-up.   Last time I
looked, Mercurial worked well but had two annoying issues:

- Converting CR/LF, LF, CR type issues from Mac/Windows/Linux.
- Not accepting large files (>10Mb) gracefully as bulk into the repository.

Have these changed?

Charles

From shaleh at speakeasy.net  Sun Jun 20 08:45:38 2010
From: shaleh at speakeasy.net (Sean Perry)
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 23:45:38 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Mercurial status?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik-tswnIoPxKorBAmjNSdCshTTSJTA3Xl_iSfb5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik-tswnIoPxKorBAmjNSdCshTTSJTA3Xl_iSfb5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1277016338.3904.21.camel@turion>

On Sat, 2010-06-19 at 19:11 -0700, Charles Merriam wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm setting up the dev environment for another start-up.   Last time I
> looked, Mercurial worked well but had two annoying issues:
> 

FAQs exist for a reason you know (-:

> - Converting CR/LF, LF, CR type issues from Mac/Windows/Linux.

http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/FAQ#FAQ.2BAC8-TechnicalDetails.What_about_Windows_line_endings_vs._Unix_line_endings.3F eventually leads to
http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/EolExtension

Basically, mercurial is Unix in its approach and converts internally.

> - Not accepting large files (>10Mb) gracefully as bulk into the repository.

Still not well supported by stock.
http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/BigfilesExtension points to a
developer's extension to support this. Basically he keeps a list of the
big files and stores them outside of the repo.


From wescpy at gmail.com  Mon Jun 21 10:00:04 2010
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 01:00:04 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Location - PyCon 2012
Message-ID: <AANLkTikoGveLsYFqXYDZSJ7nBe9XvLAZyVI-FcCJI14R@mail.gmail.com>

NOTE: also copying the SF Python meetup as this somewhat concerns you
guys as well. :-)

all,

VanL, our distinguished PyCon chair, attempted to send you a msg which
did not go through as he's not subscribed to either mailing list.

please CC him on your replies if you wish to give your opinion on the
PyCon 2012 location here in Silicon Valley.

cheers,
-wesley




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:?VanL <van.lindberg at gmail.com>
To:?baypiggies at python.org
Date:?Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:33:01 -0500
Subject:?Location - PyCon 2012
Hello Baypiggies,

After doing some initial vetting, it looks like there are two options
for PyCon 2012 and I would like to get any feedback before we sign
with one or the other. The total cost will be similar to PyCon for
both options. If I were to summarize: option 1 would be better for
extra-conference activities. Option 2 would be better for
intra-conference activities.

The PyCon organizers list appears to be pretty strongly in favor of
Option 2. Comments? Please CC me as I am not subscribed to this list.

Option 1: San Jose One Connection

This is a combination offer between the San Jose Marriott, the Hilton
San Jose, and the San Jose convention center. All of these facilities
are tied together so they are all under one roof.

Advantages:
- Two hotels to choose from, but still only one bill for PyCon.
Registrants get signing privileges at both hotels, so restaurants and
services from both can be signed to your room.
- They appear to have a little more robust internal networking infrastructure.
- Downtown San Jose; lots to do, many places to eat within close
walking distance.

Disadvantages:
- The convention space is not a great fit for PyCon. We could downsize
back to 4 tracks or spread out a little more, but those don't seem
attractive.
- Charge for parking (discounted self parking at $10)

Layout: http://www.sanjosemarriott.com/pdf/San_Jose_convention_center_layout.pdf

Option 2: Hyatt Regency Santa Clara

Advantages:
- Much more space, with more layout options. Would work better for the
conference.
- Free parking for drivers.

Disadvantages:
- Office parks for miles around. Food/bars/entertainment would need to
take the train. The train is close, but is a 10 min ride.

http://www.santaclara.hyatt.com/hyatt/images/hotels/clara/floorplan.pdf



-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001
"Python Fundamentals", Prentice Hall, (c)2009
    http://corepython.com

wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
python training and technical consulting
cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
http://cyberwebconsulting.com

From millman at berkeley.edu  Mon Jun 21 22:33:32 2010
From: millman at berkeley.edu (Jarrod Millman)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:33:32 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Open Research Computing in Python (June 25, 2010)
Message-ID: <AANLkTilbSwgMSp2iymfWcCq8yYt4CRmBwS46N78gaoi6@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

William Stein, Fernando Perez, and I are founding a non-profit
foundation for mathematical and scientific research computing. Our
purpose is to ensure unrestricted access to the best computational
tools for research and education in mathematics, science, and
engineering. Our aim is to do this primarily by fostering existing
efforts and communities. The foundation will initially focus on
Python, rather than other languages for scientific computing such as R
or Scilab. Despite this initial focus on Python, the foundation's
mission will not be merely to promote the use of Python in science.

Please join us for our first event on June 25th at the Mathematical
Sciences Research Institute (MSRI) in Berkeley, CA. The workshop is
free and lunch is provided. In order to make sure that we have enough
food, we are requiring anyone who wants to attend to RSVP by the end
of the day Wednesday, June 23rd by sending an email to
jarrod.millman+oscp2010 at gmail.com.

For more details, please see:
http://drupal.mscomp.org/orcp2010

Thanks,
Jarrod

From aleax at google.com  Mon Jun 21 23:22:44 2010
From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 14:22:44 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Location - PyCon 2012
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikoGveLsYFqXYDZSJ7nBe9XvLAZyVI-FcCJI14R@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikoGveLsYFqXYDZSJ7nBe9XvLAZyVI-FcCJI14R@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTilSzgGZEIh5X3yfjjVXFNBAl6UfbM08Ip2soJ7G@mail.gmail.com>

Personal opinions from reasonably-fresh experiences...

On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 1:00 AM, wesley chun <wescpy at gmail.com> wrote:
> NOTE: also copying the SF Python meetup as this somewhat concerns you
> guys as well. :-)
>
> all,
>
> VanL, our distinguished PyCon chair, attempted to send you a msg which
> did not go through as he's not subscribed to either mailing list.
>
> please CC him on your replies if you wish to give your opinion on the
> PyCon 2012 location here in Silicon Valley.
>
> cheers,
> -wesley
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From:?VanL <van.lindberg at gmail.com>
> To:?baypiggies at python.org
> Date:?Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:33:01 -0500
> Subject:?Location - PyCon 2012
> Hello Baypiggies,
>
> After doing some initial vetting, it looks like there are two options
> for PyCon 2012 and I would like to get any feedback before we sign
> with one or the other. The total cost will be similar to PyCon for
> both options. If I were to summarize: option 1 would be better for
> extra-conference activities. Option 2 would be better for
> intra-conference activities.
>
> The PyCon organizers list appears to be pretty strongly in favor of
> Option 2. Comments? Please CC me as I am not subscribed to this list.
>
> Option 1: San Jose One Connection
>
> This is a combination offer between the San Jose Marriott, the Hilton
> San Jose, and the San Jose convention center. All of these facilities
> are tied together so they are all under one roof.

That's where we had OSCON in 2009 -- after years in Portland, OR --
and we're back in Portland this year, partly because the experience
here wasn't ideal.

One BIG problem for all exhibitors was the SJCC's exclusive agreement
with the SJ local of the teamsters' union for all booth setups &c -- I
don't know if it's still in effect, but it was a real disaster last
year.  Summarizing "by hearsay" as I wasn't directly involved in this:
the exhibitors admitted "pro bono", various open-source non-profit
orgs, had counted on doing most everything by volunteer-labor as
usual, and had no funds to do otherwise; some of the firms exhibiting
(ones who do a lot of exhibiting in the Bay Area) had _their own_
exclusive agreements for Bay Area conferences, with _another_ local of
the same union (e.g., SF's), which led to serious political infighting
among the various locals.  Eventually we muddled through, kind of, but
I heard exhibitors swear "never again" -- which I believe played a big
role in O'Reilly's eventual decision to move back to Portland.

We need to check whether the SJCC is still under that exclusive
agreement or whether it has elapsed -- if it IS still on, I think it
can be pretty problematic.

> Advantages:
> - Two hotels to choose from, but still only one bill for PyCon.
> Registrants get signing privileges at both hotels, so restaurants and
> services from both can be signed to your room.

I'll pass on this one since I'm going to be commuting from home anyway
(as I did for OSCON last year).

> - They appear to have a little more robust internal networking infrastructure.

I couldn't tell by last year's experience -- wifi at SJCC, while not a
total disaster, was nowhere as good as at Pycon earlier this year.

> - Downtown San Jose; lots to do, many places to eat within close
> walking distance.

Yes, that's nice (at least it was on OSCON's less-hectic schedule --
earlier this year at Pycon we ended up leaving the hotel just
_once_...!).


> Disadvantages:
> - The convention space is not a great fit for PyCon. We could downsize
> back to 4 tracks or spread out a little more, but those don't seem
> attractive.

Last year OSCON was spread all over SJCC and it was a real mess --
people had to run very fast through interminable corridors to have any
hope of making it to two talks scheduled in rooms at the two distant
"poles".

> - Charge for parking (discounted self parking at $10)

Annoying -- for those who have cars there, but that should be mainly
the locals (SJ downtown is quite walkable and decently served by
public transit), right?


> Layout: http://www.sanjosemarriott.com/pdf/San_Jose_convention_center_layout.pdf
>
> Option 2: Hyatt Regency Santa Clara

That's where I played in a middling bridge tournament last year -- a
great experience (well, except for the level of my and my partner's
play and the resulting placement in the tournament, but in all honesty
I can't claim those were the _hotel_'s fault;-) -- and know the
general region (Anna went to college < 2 miles from there before
transferring to Stanford whence she just graduated, for example).

> Advantages:
> - Much more space, with more layout options. Would work better for the
> conference.
> - Free parking for drivers.
>
> Disadvantages:
> - Office parks for miles around. Food/bars/entertainment would need to
> take the train. The train is close, but is a 10 min ride.

The restaurant hotels and bars aren't too bad (the Hilton is also
close) and within a mile or less there an interesting place --
http://www.rabbitsfootmeadery.com/ and more ordinary ones like a
Bennigans Grill and a "Fairway Restaurant" (haven't tried that one);
just above one mile, a "Club Bahia" (don't much like that kind of
music so I haven't tried it but if you are into it sounds good),
http://www.bogartsloungeandtechpub.com/ , and the
(used-to-be-excellent, haven't-been-there-in a while)
http://www.faultlinebrewing.com/ -- whether these are "walking
distance", I guess, depends on one's walking habits (and time
available), but surely this shows the "office parks for miles around"
is a bit of an overbid;-).

There's definitely more options _with_ cars than without, sigh (kind
of like the reverse of downtown SJ).

Guess I might be a bit biased in favor of Santa Clara since we just
moved (well are smack in the middle of moving, in a sense - no
internet yet for example;-) to a house 5 miles away...;-).


Alex

From brooke at vmware.com  Mon Jun 21 23:17:14 2010
From: brooke at vmware.com (Brooke Anderson (c))
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 14:17:14 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] VMware - Python Sr Web Developer
Message-ID: <89E2752CFA8EC044846EB8499819134102BBC8D1CF@EXCH-MBX-4.vmware.com>

Hi Bay Area Python Users Group,

VMware is currently seeking a Python expert for a full-time opportunity in Palo Alto.

We are looking for someone has a strong love for Web Developing and programming who can play a critical role in our huge development infrastructure!

In this position you would build and maintain core infrastructure tools through web development (using python-based frameworks like Django) as well as develop and enhance SCM applications built over Perforce, git and SVN version control systems.

You will develop new (and re-write existing) SCM applications from perl to python to improve Developer productivity. You will get the opportunity to improve all of the apps and develop and design your own ideas on the SCM apps! You will automate all processes around Perforce and integrate existing tools with git.

As you can tell, this is a pure programmer and web developer role. If you want to contribute your own development processes and directly affect the productivity of thousands of developers by improving all of our apps and automate processes, then this is the role for you!

You would have your fingers on the pulse of what we feel will revolutionize how we all do computing in the future.

What your "playground" would look like: Our Build environment currently has 400 build machines "and growing", and we work with 3500 users, 28,000 clients, on 1000 branches on virtually all of the VMware products. There are 700 Gig under source control (5 million files); we are using 11 separate Perforce installations in CM, 15 proxy servers, 12 physical servers, 6 Virtual Machines for automation and monitoring, with over 2 Terabytes of physical RAM to give you idea of the size, scope and scale of our environment. I hope this information piques your interest!

The Job Description is pasted below my contact information, so you can take a look.

As you can probably tell, we look for people who aren't satisfied with just turning a crank, but who take ownership of what they work on, creating new ways to independently improve the overall infrastructure systems.

Basically, this is an opportunity for a roll-up-your-sleeves, imaginative and independent engineer with leadership skills to work on some of the most ambitious projects in Silicon Valley!


Brooke L. Anderson
R&D Sourcing
brooke at vmware.com<mailto:your.email at vmware.com>
O: 512.568.3741

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From ben at groovie.org  Tue Jun 22 00:35:53 2010
From: ben at groovie.org (Ben Bangert)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 15:35:53 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Location - PyCon 2012
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikoGveLsYFqXYDZSJ7nBe9XvLAZyVI-FcCJI14R@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikoGveLsYFqXYDZSJ7nBe9XvLAZyVI-FcCJI14R@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A20B01DB-034E-4E52-A5FE-A7DE72CD4E05@groovie.org>

On Jun 21, 2010, at 1:00 AM, wesley chun wrote:

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: VanL <van.lindberg at gmail.com>
> To: baypiggies at python.org
> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:33:01 -0500
> Subject: Location - PyCon 2012
> Hello Baypiggies,
> 
> After doing some initial vetting, it looks like there are two options
> for PyCon 2012 and I would like to get any feedback before we sign
> with one or the other. The total cost will be similar to PyCon for
> both options. If I were to summarize: option 1 would be better for
> extra-conference activities. Option 2 would be better for
> intra-conference activities.
> 
> The PyCon organizers list appears to be pretty strongly in favor of
> Option 2. Comments? Please CC me as I am not subscribed to this list.
> 
> Option 1: San Jose One Connection
> 
> This is a combination offer between the San Jose Marriott, the Hilton
> San Jose, and the San Jose convention center. All of these facilities
> are tied together so they are all under one roof.

Ugh, for the reasons Alex Martelli wrote mainly, and I haven't had any great experiences there either. It's a rather frustrating venue.

> Option 2: Hyatt Regency Santa Clara
> 
> Advantages:
> - Much more space, with more layout options. Would work better for the
> conference.
> - Free parking for drivers.
> 
> Disadvantages:
> - Office parks for miles around. Food/bars/entertainment would need to
> take the train. The train is close, but is a 10 min ride.

Yea, not too great if we think that some people might actually want to see what the Bay Area is about. Then again, both of these options are sort of the equivalent of the Chicago PyCon. That is, a name that sounds like you're going to be somewhere interesting, but then you find out you're not actually somewhere interesting (like SF, Berkeley, etc) but instead got dumped into a suburb/office park (Rosemont, IL, San Jose, Santa Clara).

I'm guessing since these are already the two final choices, I must've missed the conversation that resulted in the Bay Area choices being dropped down to just these two places, which is a bummer. I think Atlanta did a great job cause we are actually in downtown, not stuck somewhere in the 'stix' like with Dallas and Chicago. I'm sad to hear that the only two locations in the Bay Area that qualified are the equivalent. Anyways....

The Santa Clara center looks much better for the conference, plus, in theory unlike some of the past conferences, this one should have a *ton* of locals... who have cars... and except for commute times its pretty dang fast to get around on the freeways. Downtown Mountain View is only a few minutes on the freeway from the Santa Clara location, and for those last minute needs the Fry's Electronics is a quick 5 minute trip as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's some workaholics or folks at startups that can't get a few days off to attend PyCon, but whom are right around the corner and would love to meet/chat with PyCon folks, so maybe having some evening Python events that ppl could drop in for that don't require a full conference reg would be beneficial. That might also increase how many cars are available for getting out to dinner.. etc.. :)

Cheers,
Ben

From dmarcus at agraquest.com  Tue Jun 22 01:16:46 2010
From: dmarcus at agraquest.com (Debbie Marcus)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 16:16:46 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Informatics Research Scientist - AgraQuest, Inc.
Message-ID: <061E6B1BD985A942997D9771F9B059C60372CF22A5@AGQ-EX02.agraquest.int>

AgraQuest, Inc. http://www.agraquest.com (Davis, CA. USA)

Job Description:

AgraQuest is seeking a Python Developer experienced with Frameworks, preferably TurboGear for its Davis, CA. location. In this role you will be responsible for continuing the development, deployment and maintenance of custom data management systems and their web interfaces. Using open source relational database, you will create, enhance and maintain databases that will warehouse millions of dollars worth of agricultural field trial and various forms of laboratory data.  You will interact with non-informatics scientists to understand their needs in order to efficiently develop Informatics solutions.   Excellent communication and great interpersonal skills are highly desired.  An innate or acquired desire to promote safer, healthier environment would also be a plus.

Essential Job Duties and Responsibilities:

-Create automatic loaders to import data from Excel and text files to the database
-Develop tools to generate user-defined reports in Excel and Word by extracting data out of the relational database
-Write scripts to properly maintain the database management system, e.g. nightly backups, regression testing, etc.
-Interact with users to create web-based interface for efficient retrieval and display of data
-Meticulously document functional and technical specs
-Utilize open source tools whenever possible
-Help maintain hardware used for data entry, data capture and database hosting
-Must develop rapid prototype of necessary software tools for various scientific projects
-Must be able to work independently and collaboratively with project leads and non-technical personnel

Contact: jobs at agraquest.com<mailto:jobs at agraquest.com>


Thank you,

Debbie Marcus
Executive Assistant
Corporate Recruiter
AgraQuest Inc.
Better food.  Better world.
1540 Drew Ave., Davis, CA 95618, U.S.A.
+1 (530) 750-0150 ext. 112
dmarcus at agraquest.com<mailto:rlohse at agraquest.com>
www.agraquest.com<http://www.agraquest.com/>

This email message and any accompanying document(s) contain confidential information that is only for the use of the intended addressee.  Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.


From: Debbie Marcus
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 3:07 PM
To: 'baypiggies at python.org'
Subject: Job Posting

We would appreciate having this posted.

I was asked Director of Informatics, Dan Joo to send this to your site.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you,

Debbie Marcus
Executive Assistant
Corporate Recruiter
AgraQuest Inc.
Better food.  Better world.
1540 Drew Ave., Davis, CA 95618, U.S.A.
+1 (530) 750-0150 ext. 112
dmarcus at agraquest.com<mailto:rlohse at agraquest.com>
www.agraquest.com<http://www.agraquest.com/>

This email message and any accompanying document(s) contain confidential information that is only for the use of the intended addressee.  Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.


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From kpguy at rediffmail.com  Tue Jun 22 04:22:53 2010
From: kpguy at rediffmail.com (Vikram )
Date: 22 Jun 2010 02:22:53 -0000
Subject: [Baypiggies] =?utf-8?q?list_to_dictionary_problem?=
Message-ID: <20100622022253.48653.qmail@f6mail-145-152.rediffmail.com>

Suppose i have this list:

>>> a = [['cat',2],['cat',5],['cat',9],['dog',6]]
>>> a
[['cat', 2], ['cat', 5], ['cat', 9], ['dog', 6]]

Now, there is a nice way to obtain the value 9.

>>> z = dict(a)
>>> z
{'dog': 6, 'cat': 9}

Is there any elegant way to extract the value 2? (Value corresponding to the first occurence of 'cat' in the 2-D list).

Thanks,
Vikram
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From almir at almirkaric.com  Tue Jun 22 04:56:18 2010
From: almir at almirkaric.com (Almir Karic)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 19:56:18 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] list to dictionary problem
In-Reply-To: <20100622022253.48653.qmail@f6mail-145-152.rediffmail.com>
References: <20100622022253.48653.qmail@f6mail-145-152.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTilyrfC-DnXLEa1jdS3aFB5YJt4P1byJunW3-8_o@mail.gmail.com>

List comprehension is one option


>>> a = [['cat', 2], ['cat', 5], ['cat', 9], ['dog', 6]]
>>> [i[1] for i in a if i[0] == 'cat'][0]
2


On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 7:22 PM, Vikram <kpguy at rediffmail.com> wrote:
>
> Suppose i have this list:
>
> >>> a = [['cat',2],['cat',5],['cat',9],['dog',6]]
> >>> a
> [['cat', 2], ['cat', 5], ['cat', 9], ['dog', 6]]
>
> Now, there is a nice way to obtain the value 9.
>
> >>> z = dict(a)
> >>> z
> {'dog': 6, 'cat': 9}
>
> Is there any elegant way to extract the value 2? (Value corresponding to the first occurence of 'cat' in the 2-D list).
>
> Thanks,
> Vikram
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies



--
python/django hacker & sys admin
http://almirkaric.com & http://twitter.com/redduck666

From jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com  Tue Jun 22 05:04:29 2010
From: jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com (Jeremy Fishman)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 20:04:29 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] list to dictionary problem
In-Reply-To: <20100622022253.48653.qmail@f6mail-145-152.rediffmail.com>
References: <20100622022253.48653.qmail@f6mail-145-152.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinF2sEg1X7cJ6_KD-9PCy64m_VHyrOEaF-daNhH@mail.gmail.com>

Is a always ordered (as it is in the example)?

>>> from bisect import bisect_left
>>> a = [['cat',2],['cat',5],['cat',9],['dog',6]]
>>> i = bisect_left(a, ['cat'])
>>> if i < len(a):
...     print a[i]
...
['cat', 2]

Do you absolutely want a dictionary as a result?

>>> d = {}
>>> [d.setdefault(*pair) for pair in a]
[2, 2, 2, 6]
>>> d
{'dog': 6, 'cat': 2}

  - Jeremy

On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 7:22 PM, Vikram <kpguy at rediffmail.com> wrote:

> Suppose i have this list:
>
> >>> a = [['cat',2],['cat',5],['cat',9],['dog',6]]
> >>> a
> [['cat', 2], ['cat', 5], ['cat', 9], ['dog', 6]]
>
> Now, there is a nice way to obtain the value 9.
>
> >>> z = dict(a)
> >>> z
> {'dog': 6, 'cat': 9}
>
> Is there any elegant way to extract the value 2? (Value corresponding to
> the first occurence of 'cat' in the 2-D list).
>
> Thanks,
> Vikram
>
> <http://sigads.rediff.com/RealMedia/ads/click_nx.ads/www.rediffmail.com/signatureline.htm at Middle?>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com  Tue Jun 22 05:13:28 2010
From: jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com (Jeremy Fishman)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 20:13:28 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] list to dictionary problem
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinF2sEg1X7cJ6_KD-9PCy64m_VHyrOEaF-daNhH@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100622022253.48653.qmail@f6mail-145-152.rediffmail.com>
	<AANLkTinF2sEg1X7cJ6_KD-9PCy64m_VHyrOEaF-daNhH@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTiltiM0apAMVbgkAVfxtO3Ie9wtecyy1zcLjKHrg@mail.gmail.com>

More elegant, possible slower for long lists (the *zip(*a) bit):

>>> a = [['cat',2],['cat',5],['cat',9],['dog',6]]
>>> d = {}
>>> map(d.setdefault, *zip(*a))
[2, 2, 2, 6]
>>> d
{'dog': 6, 'cat': 2}

  - Jeremy

On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Jeremy Fishman
<jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com>wrote:

> Is a always ordered (as it is in the example)?
>
> >>> from bisect import bisect_left
> >>> a = [['cat',2],['cat',5],['cat',9],['dog',6]]
> >>> i = bisect_left(a, ['cat'])
> >>> if i < len(a):
> ...     print a[i]
> ...
> ['cat', 2]
>
> Do you absolutely want a dictionary as a result?
>
> >>> d = {}
> >>> [d.setdefault(*pair) for pair in a]
> [2, 2, 2, 6]
> >>> d
> {'dog': 6, 'cat': 2}
>
>   - Jeremy
>
> On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 7:22 PM, Vikram <kpguy at rediffmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Suppose i have this list:
>>
>> >>> a = [['cat',2],['cat',5],['cat',9],['dog',6]]
>> >>> a
>> [['cat', 2], ['cat', 5], ['cat', 9], ['dog', 6]]
>>
>> Now, there is a nice way to obtain the value 9.
>>
>> >>> z = dict(a)
>> >>> z
>> {'dog': 6, 'cat': 9}
>>
>> Is there any elegant way to extract the value 2? (Value corresponding to
>> the first occurence of 'cat' in the 2-D list).
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Vikram
>>
>> <http://sigads.rediff.com/RealMedia/ads/click_nx.ads/www.rediffmail.com/signatureline.htm at Middle?>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
>
>
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From jim at well.com  Tue Jun 22 05:25:21 2010
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 20:25:21 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday, June 24,
 2010: Exploiting Parallelism - A Concise and Practical Introduction
Message-ID: <1277177121.1583.77.camel@jim-laptop>


BayPIGgies meeting Thursday, June 24, 2010: Exploiting Parallelism - A
Concise and Practical Introduction


Tonight's talk is 
* Exploiting Parallelism - A Concise and Practical 
Introduction, by Minesh B. Amin, 
the first part of a two-part presentation 


Meetings usually start with a Newbie Nugget, a short discussion of 
an essential Python feature, especially for those new to Python. 
Tonight's Newbie Nugget: A Documentation Tip 


LOCATION 
Symantec Corporation
Symantec Vcafe
350 Ellis Street
Mountain View, CA 94043
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=w6i_Sfr6MZmQsQOzlv0v&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116202735295394761637.00046550c09ff3d96bff1&ll=37.397693,-122.053707&spn=0.002902,0.004828&z=18

BayPIGgies meeting information is available at 
http://www.baypiggies.net/ 


------------------------ Agenda ------------------------


..... 7:30 PM ...........................
General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any 
first-minute announcements. 


..... 7:35 PM to 7:45 PM ................
Newbie Nugget: A Documentation Tip 


..... 7:45 PM to 8:40 PM (or so) ................

June 24, 2010 -- First of a two-part presentation: 
Exploiting Parallelism - A Concise and Practical Introduction
by Minesh B. Amin

In his book In Search of Clusters, Gregory Pfister said it best. 
To paraphrase, there are three ways to do anything faster: work 
harder, work smarter, or get help. In computer-speak, this 
roughly translates to: increase processor speed, improve 
algorithms, or exploit parallelism.

With processor speeds no longer doubling every eighteen months, 
and little or no room left for improvements in serial 
algorithms, exploiting parallelism is the one frontier with 
the potential for delivering huge improvements in performance.

This talk introduces terminology and concepts to develop an 
understanding of how to exploit parallelism; present mental 
models for decomposing problems to exploit parallelism; and 
apply these concepts to survey available solutions, including 
Open MPI, Open MP, MapReduce/Hadoop, Intel threading blocks, 
Python multiprocessing module, and a handful of commercial 
solutions.

Minesh B. Amin is the founder and CEO of MBA Sciences, which 
recently introduced the SPM.Python product that enables users 
to easily create parallel applications using an integrated 
Python API and framework. Minesh received his PhD in Computer 
Science from the University of Minnesota and moved to the 
Silicon Valley, developing software solutions at ViewLogic 
and Synopsys prior to starting MBA Sciences in 2006. He is a 
big fan of the Python language and in his spare time enjoys 
Pink Floyd, House, hiking and firing up a barbecue grill, 
though not necessarily in that order. :-)

Links: 
http://mbasciences.com/ 


..... 8:50 PM to 9:30 PM  ................
Mapping and Random Access

Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of issues, hiring, 
events, and other topics. 

Random Access follows people immediately to allow follow up on the 
announcements and other interests.



From alexandre.conrad at gmail.com  Tue Jun 22 11:57:28 2010
From: alexandre.conrad at gmail.com (Alexandre Conrad)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 11:57:28 +0200
Subject: [Baypiggies] list to dictionary problem
In-Reply-To: <20100622022253.48653.qmail@f6mail-145-152.rediffmail.com>
References: <20100622022253.48653.qmail@f6mail-145-152.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim0MhX3YcLJjJPJOGPxnMe0mTnJMJ15ZhpSmtuU@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Vikram,

2010/6/22 Vikram <kpguy at rediffmail.com>
>
> Suppose i have this list:
>
> >>> a = [['cat',2],['cat',5],['cat',9],['dog',6]]
> >>> a
> [['cat', 2], ['cat', 5], ['cat', 9], ['dog', 6]]
>
> Now, there is a nice way to obtain the value 9.
>
> >>> z = dict(a)
> >>> z
> {'dog': 6, 'cat': 9}
>
> Is there any elegant way to extract the value 2? (Value corresponding to the first occurence of 'cat' in the 2-D list).

I guess I'd just reverse the list and apply the same technique as you proposed.

>>> a = [['cat',2],['cat',5],['cat',9],['dog',6]]
>>> a.reverse()
>>> z = dict(a)
>>> z
{'dog': 6, 'cat': 2}

Would that be suitable for you?

Regards,
--
Alex
twitter.com/alexconrad

From recursive.cookie.jar at gmail.com  Tue Jun 22 12:11:27 2010
From: recursive.cookie.jar at gmail.com (Zachary Collins)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 19:11:27 +0900
Subject: [Baypiggies] list to dictionary problem
In-Reply-To: <20100622022253.48653.qmail@f6mail-145-152.rediffmail.com>
References: <20100622022253.48653.qmail@f6mail-145-152.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinUjHLg-n47TTfrT5VYPRKod6g5QxnpOSOho4Z-@mail.gmail.com>

How about just using an iterator?

>>> a = [['cat',2],['cat',5],['cat',9],['dog',6]]
>>> (v for k, v in a if k == 'cat').next()
2

Also has the nice property of only iterating until the first item is found,
instead of iterating over the entire list like other solutions here.

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Vikram <kpguy at rediffmail.com> wrote:

> Suppose i have this list:
>
> >>> a = [['cat',2],['cat',5],['cat',9],['dog',6]]
> >>> a
> [['cat', 2], ['cat', 5], ['cat', 9], ['dog', 6]]
>
> Now, there is a nice way to obtain the value 9.
>
> >>> z = dict(a)
> >>> z
> {'dog': 6, 'cat': 9}
>
> Is there any elegant way to extract the value 2? (Value corresponding to
> the first occurence of 'cat' in the 2-D list).
>
> Thanks,
> Vikram
>
> <http://sigads.rediff.com/RealMedia/ads/click_nx.ads/www.rediffmail.com/signatureline.htm at Middle?>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From brooke at vmware.com  Tue Jun 22 19:24:35 2010
From: brooke at vmware.com (Brooke Anderson (c))
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:24:35 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] VMware - Pyhthon (Build) Developer
Message-ID: <89E2752CFA8EC044846EB8499819134102BBE28DC7@EXCH-MBX-4.vmware.com>

VMware, the industry leader in high-performance, enterprise-class x86 virtualization technology, is looking for an Infrastructure Engineer (a build developer) who can think independently and work closely with our Senior Development Engineers and our Build Release team, and play a critical role in improving build infrastructures to improve productivity for both development and build engineering.

This opportunity is not a typical 'build engineer' role. This position is about working with developers and solving really difficult problems: multithreaded, multi-platform, distributed build systems. This is not just the standard "babysitting" task of a build engineer; this is designing and optimizing a complex system, just like any other program.

You will engage new tools into our environment by proposal, design and implementation, and you must be able to work independently and have strong leadership skills. You would have your fingers on the pulse of how we do the work here, as you would be actively involved with product and design meetings. We are always looking to improve our core build tool, and we have large clusters to do distributed builds and build caching mechanisms as we work on more than 25 products across multiple platforms including Windows and Linux, and even a little bit of Mac. We'd love to find out what improvements you might make!

A little about our environment and team:

What your "playground" would look like: Our Build environment currently has 400 build machines "and growing", and we work with 3500 users, 28,000 clients, on 1000 branches on virtually all of the VMware products. There are 700 Gig under source control (5 million files); we have 2000+ Perforce users and multiple Perforce servers, with over 2 Terabytes of physical RAM, and use proxies to support developers around the globe at 15 sites with R&D presence. Our total Team size is more than 20 and still growing. This should give you an idea of the size, scope and scale of our environment. I hope this information piques your interest!

Our Build environment is currently driven by Make, and we are eagerly moving towards Python and SCons. People with previous experiences building Linux distributions (Red Hat, Fedora, Debian, SuSE, Ubuntu, Slackware, etc.) or open source software experience are VERY welcome here! We look for people who aren't satisfied with just turning a crank, but who take ownership of what they work on, creating new ways to do tasks, automating and troubleshooting, to independently improve the overall build systems.

We love open source here, and we are always looking to get more and give back to the community!

I'd love to hear if you're interested in this kind of role!


Respectfully,

Brooke L. Anderson
R&D Sourcing
brooke at vmware.com<mailto:your.email at vmware.com>
O: 512.568.3741

[cid:image001.gif at 01CB1205.E04277E0]<http://www.vmware.com/>
VMware's award-winning technology, market-leading position and culture of excellence provide our 7,000+ employees in 40+ locations worldwide with a platform for professional growth and the excitement of being an early-stage innovator. Interested in joining us or know someone who might be? Contact me directly or visit www.vmware.com/jobs<http://www.vmware.com/jobs> to learn more about us and apply today.

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From slacy at slacy.com  Tue Jun 22 19:35:42 2010
From: slacy at slacy.com (Stephen Lacy)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:35:42 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Thoughts on starting a career as a consultant?
Message-ID: <AANLkTinnKXIaZPM-6Vzg5mNvM3oJ9NWEcWFt-IG5ZpTD@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all,

I've been a software engineer for well over 10 years, mainly C++, but Python
for about the last year, and I'm really enjoying it.

I'm getting more and more interested in transitioning from a full-timer at a
large company to being a Python+Django freelance consultant.  My background
is mainly in engineering, not design, but of course I'm fully versed in
HTML+CSS, I'm just not the best person to be designing interfaces from
scratch or doing complex visual design & graphics.

Has anyone here made this transition before?  How did it go?  My biggest
fears are:

- How am I going to attract clients? (Although this list, and sites like
djanggigs.com seem like pretty good sources to start.)
- Am I good at managing client relationships?  How hard will this be?
(billing, scope creep, missed deadlines, etc.)
- What about the graphics/visual design side of things?  What do you usually
do for this, or has the client already outsourced a design and they just
need implementation?
- Maybe I just want to get a FT position with a web design&build firm
instead?  What are the pros/cons of that approach vs. freelancing?

Any thoughts or experiences from people who have done this transition would
be great.  Thanks!

Steve
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From spmcinerney at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 22 19:55:21 2010
From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:55:21 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Thoughts on starting a career as a consultant?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinnKXIaZPM-6Vzg5mNvM3oJ9NWEcWFt-IG5ZpTD@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinnKXIaZPM-6Vzg5mNvM3oJ9NWEcWFt-IG5ZpTD@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W22E0D04DC8A8189700D3F4A0C40@phx.gbl>


Stephen,

This is something which has been of interest to a lot of us, which deserves an evening in itself, long overdue. (How to become a contractor, How to make the transition to going fulltime, How to evangelize for Python internally in your organization).

++ for making this a talk.

Regards,
Stephen

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:35:42 -0700
From: slacy at slacy.com
To: baypiggies at python.org
Subject: [Baypiggies] Thoughts on starting a career as a consultant?

Hey all,

I've been a software engineer for well over 10 years, mainly C++, but Python for about the last year, and I'm really enjoying it.  

I'm getting more and more interested in transitioning from a full-timer at a large company to being a Python+Django freelance consultant.  My background is mainly in engineering, not design, but of course I'm fully versed in HTML+CSS, I'm just not the best person to be designing interfaces from scratch or doing complex visual design & graphics. 


Has anyone here made this transition before?  How did it go?  My biggest fears are:

- How am I going to attract clients? (Although this list, and sites like djanggigs.com seem like pretty good sources to start.) 

- Am I good at managing client relationships?  How hard will this be?  (billing, scope creep, missed deadlines, etc.) 
- What about the graphics/visual design side of things?  What do you usually do for this, or has the client already outsourced a design and they just need implementation?

- Maybe I just want to get a FT position with a web design&build firm instead?  What are the pros/cons of that approach vs. freelancing?

Any thoughts or experiences from people who have done this transition would be great.  Thanks!


Steve

 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. 
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5
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From grayarea at reddagger.org  Tue Jun 22 20:07:38 2010
From: grayarea at reddagger.org (John Withers)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 11:07:38 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Thoughts on starting a career as a consultant?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinnKXIaZPM-6Vzg5mNvM3oJ9NWEcWFt-IG5ZpTD@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinnKXIaZPM-6Vzg5mNvM3oJ9NWEcWFt-IG5ZpTD@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1277230058.28129.295.camel@Frank-Brain>

I can handle a couple of these, others I don't know so much about.

Note that I have been w-2 for the last 7 years, so my thinking might be
somewhat out of date.

1. Hook up with a good designer who understands code and dealing with
clients. This a must or you are going to severely limit the range of
your possible contracts. In my experience about 50% of the people you
run into are going to need the whole shebang. Or, as I have seen more
than once, they start with a designer, realize they don't actually like
what is happening, and start casting about. If you have one in your
pocket, your stock shoots up. You can email me personally if you want a
reference to someone I think is quite good and have worked with.

2. Healthcare and taxes are brutal. Spend some time getting to know
about these issues. Then sit down and start drawing up how many hours
you have to work at what for you seems a slightly low rate, a medium
rate, and a high rate. Then compare your rates with others who are
working as freelancers and see how they stack up. Too many people don't
do this before they leave a W-2.

3. Attracting those first few clients is a pain, in my experience. After
that, it just kind of rolls on its own if you do good work. Being good
at speaking and promoting is a definite plus. Donna, on this list, is
really exceptional that that. I don't know if she still does, but she
used to speak at the drop of a hat. 

Speaking and writing for groups that aren't all tech heads brings in
money. In an entirely different field, I once wrote a set of articles
taking down pretty much verbatim some stuff from a guy who was good at
sandblasting. Got them published in a sign magazine. I rapidly became an
acknowledged expert in the field of sandblasting signs. I didn't know
crap about sandblasting; I knew about writing. But that exposure and a
couple of grants put me through college. I dropped the whole thing once
I was done with school, but I could have made a whole mediocre career as
a writer/expert in the sign trade.

4. Managing client relationships is a nightmare, period. Scope creep
happens. Random crap happens. I have been on both ends of this. Right
now I am being a nightmare client for a designer/developer team. It
isn't really my fault and more the organization I am embedded in, but it
is ugly. A two month project has stretched to almost a year. And my
developer is handling it brilliantly. He blocked the time at the start
of the project, charged a low amount for blocking it, and then when we
ran over, he allowed as how he was still on it, but that he couldn't
guarantee turn around times anymore and very nicely made it obvious that
was on us. And kept billing in dribs and drabs as we actually made
decisions. By being flexible and chill and putting up with our crap, he
is going to end up making at least half again what was originally
spec'ed.

Moral of the story from me watching him handle this better than I used
to: be totally flexible, but when the project goes sideways require your
clients to go to some kind of regular hourly billing and a lowered
turnaround expectation. Put this in your contract and everyone ends up
happy. 

Hope this random rambling spew helps.

-john

On Tue, 2010-06-22 at 10:35 -0700, Stephen Lacy wrote:
> Hey all,
> 
> I've been a software engineer for well over 10 years, mainly C++, but
> Python for about the last year, and I'm really enjoying it.  
> 
> I'm getting more and more interested in transitioning from a
> full-timer at a large company to being a Python+Django freelance
> consultant.  My background is mainly in engineering, not design, but
> of course I'm fully versed in HTML+CSS, I'm just not the best person
> to be designing interfaces from scratch or doing complex visual design
> & graphics. 
> 
> Has anyone here made this transition before?  How did it go?  My
> biggest fears are:
> 
> - How am I going to attract clients? (Although this list, and sites
> like djanggigs.com seem like pretty good sources to start.) 
> - Am I good at managing client relationships?  How hard will this be?
> (billing, scope creep, missed deadlines, etc.) 
> - What about the graphics/visual design side of things?  What do you
> usually do for this, or has the client already outsourced a design and
> they just need implementation?
> - Maybe I just want to get a FT position with a web design&build firm
> instead?  What are the pros/cons of that approach vs. freelancing?
> 
> Any thoughts or experiences from people who have done this transition
> would be great.  Thanks!
> 
> Steve
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jun 22 20:11:42 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 11:11:42 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Location - PyCon 2012
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikoGveLsYFqXYDZSJ7nBe9XvLAZyVI-FcCJI14R@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikoGveLsYFqXYDZSJ7nBe9XvLAZyVI-FcCJI14R@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100622181142.GA3255@panix.com>

On Mon, Jun 21, 2010, wesley chun wrote:
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: VanL <van.lindberg at gmail.com>
> To: baypiggies at python.org
> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:33:01 -0500
> 
> After doing some initial vetting, it looks like there are two options
> for PyCon 2012 and I would like to get any feedback before we sign
> with one or the other. The total cost will be similar to PyCon for
> both options. If I were to summarize: option 1 would be better for
> extra-conference activities. Option 2 would be better for
> intra-conference activities.

It seems that I'm in the distinct minority, but I'm pretty strongly
opposed to Hyatt.  I have had several bad experiences with Hyatt at
multiple locations (including Santa Clara), to the point that I will not
attend any event at a Hyatt.

In addition, I believe that people have overestimated the dining capacity
of the Hyatt and have underestimated the time it will take to get to
external dinner options.  I believe that we will need to negotiate extra
food delivery from Hyatt and that will likely cost money that has not yet
been estimated.  It might work to have extended dinner hours.

(Several people have mentioned BayCon as a positive factor in selecting
Santa Clara, but science fiction conventions have different dining
patterns IME.)

I recognize that there are a number of advantages to Santa Clara; I'm
skipping over them in registering my opposition.  (I was the person who
originally suggested Santa Clara.)

Note that I am not particularly in favor of San Jose Convention Center;
had I realized that those were the only two options for PyCon, I would
have opposed bringing PyCon to the Bay Area.  There is some history of
poor management of this site selection process.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra

From andrew at atoulou.se  Tue Jun 22 19:22:54 2010
From: andrew at atoulou.se (Andrew Akira Toulouse)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:22:54 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] list to dictionary problem
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim0MhX3YcLJjJPJOGPxnMe0mTnJMJ15ZhpSmtuU@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100622022253.48653.qmail@f6mail-145-152.rediffmail.com> 
	<AANLkTim0MhX3YcLJjJPJOGPxnMe0mTnJMJ15ZhpSmtuU@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikb2-fmZPpy0HdUlwi-c9wbCSrjI-LpT5WJlX6d@mail.gmail.com>

More succinctly:
>>> a = [['cat',2],['cat',5],['cat',9],['dog',6]]
>>> dict(reversed(a))['cat']
2

IIRC, reversed() creates an iterator that iterates backwards. I'm not too
sure about the lower-level nuts and bolts of Python regarding this - maybe
someone else can shed some light on the advantages of iterators.

(there is also a sorted() function that creates similarly creates a sorted
iterator)

Zachary's solution does seem to be the laziest (as in least evaluated),
though - that's probably as good as you're going to get.

--Andy

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 2:57 AM, Alexandre Conrad <
alexandre.conrad at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Vikram,
>
> 2010/6/22 Vikram <kpguy at rediffmail.com>
> >
> > Suppose i have this list:
> >
> > >>> a = [['cat',2],['cat',5],['cat',9],['dog',6]]
> > >>> a
> > [['cat', 2], ['cat', 5], ['cat', 9], ['dog', 6]]
> >
> > Now, there is a nice way to obtain the value 9.
> >
> > >>> z = dict(a)
> > >>> z
> > {'dog': 6, 'cat': 9}
> >
> > Is there any elegant way to extract the value 2? (Value corresponding to
> the first occurence of 'cat' in the 2-D list).
>
> I guess I'd just reverse the list and apply the same technique as you
> proposed.
>
> >>> a = [['cat',2],['cat',5],['cat',9],['dog',6]]
> >>> a.reverse()
> >>> z = dict(a)
> >>> z
> {'dog': 6, 'cat': 2}
>
> Would that be suitable for you?
>
> Regards,
> --
> Alex
> twitter.com/alexconrad
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From eleddy at umich.edu  Tue Jun 22 21:30:49 2010
From: eleddy at umich.edu (Elizabeth Leddy)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 12:30:49 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Thoughts on starting a career as a consultant?
In-Reply-To: <1277230058.28129.295.camel@Frank-Brain>
References: <AANLkTinnKXIaZPM-6Vzg5mNvM3oJ9NWEcWFt-IG5ZpTD@mail.gmail.com>
	<1277230058.28129.295.camel@Frank-Brain>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikm4l19EmuJQ0hVTZMTXadwmFsMGRnfYoQS_uMz@mail.gmail.com>

+1000 on the health and taxes part. If you aren't into learning all about
taxes, get an accountant. Whenever I get money in I immediately put 50%
aside for taxes. You also should get your estimated tax payments set up if
you have any kind of guessable income.

Oh and be prepared for people to not pay on time. I've had clients that were
on the mark and paid days later and others that dragged it out for 6+
months. Really business/money saavy clients know how to string you along.
Keep a keen eye out for these types and make sure the payment terms are
strict and clear, with penalties.

I just started working with freshbooks.com and I like it way better than
stuff I've used in the past. I also use mint.com to manage which items are
tax deductible - they make it really easy.

As for health insurance, things have dramatically changed and are still
changing with the new legislation. I saved a lot of money (monthly) by
switching to basically a catastrophe plan ($250/month down to $52) but I
have a high deductible so if you can have that money in the bank shop around
on plans. I really like this health insurance search engine and check often
to see if I can get better rates: http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/

I just switched over to full time contractor after doing it on the side for
many years. I'm incredibly happy with the freedom that comes from it so keep
that in mind when you read about all the work that comes too! :)

Liz

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 11:07 AM, John Withers <grayarea at reddagger.org>wrote:

> I can handle a couple of these, others I don't know so much about.
>
> Note that I have been w-2 for the last 7 years, so my thinking might be
> somewhat out of date.
>
> 1. Hook up with a good designer who understands code and dealing with
> clients. This a must or you are going to severely limit the range of
> your possible contracts. In my experience about 50% of the people you
> run into are going to need the whole shebang. Or, as I have seen more
> than once, they start with a designer, realize they don't actually like
> what is happening, and start casting about. If you have one in your
> pocket, your stock shoots up. You can email me personally if you want a
> reference to someone I think is quite good and have worked with.
>
> 2. Healthcare and taxes are brutal. Spend some time getting to know
> about these issues. Then sit down and start drawing up how many hours
> you have to work at what for you seems a slightly low rate, a medium
> rate, and a high rate. Then compare your rates with others who are
> working as freelancers and see how they stack up. Too many people don't
> do this before they leave a W-2.
>
> 3. Attracting those first few clients is a pain, in my experience. After
> that, it just kind of rolls on its own if you do good work. Being good
> at speaking and promoting is a definite plus. Donna, on this list, is
> really exceptional that that. I don't know if she still does, but she
> used to speak at the drop of a hat.
>
> Speaking and writing for groups that aren't all tech heads brings in
> money. In an entirely different field, I once wrote a set of articles
> taking down pretty much verbatim some stuff from a guy who was good at
> sandblasting. Got them published in a sign magazine. I rapidly became an
> acknowledged expert in the field of sandblasting signs. I didn't know
> crap about sandblasting; I knew about writing. But that exposure and a
> couple of grants put me through college. I dropped the whole thing once
> I was done with school, but I could have made a whole mediocre career as
> a writer/expert in the sign trade.
>
> 4. Managing client relationships is a nightmare, period. Scope creep
> happens. Random crap happens. I have been on both ends of this. Right
> now I am being a nightmare client for a designer/developer team. It
> isn't really my fault and more the organization I am embedded in, but it
> is ugly. A two month project has stretched to almost a year. And my
> developer is handling it brilliantly. He blocked the time at the start
> of the project, charged a low amount for blocking it, and then when we
> ran over, he allowed as how he was still on it, but that he couldn't
> guarantee turn around times anymore and very nicely made it obvious that
> was on us. And kept billing in dribs and drabs as we actually made
> decisions. By being flexible and chill and putting up with our crap, he
> is going to end up making at least half again what was originally
> spec'ed.
>
> Moral of the story from me watching him handle this better than I used
> to: be totally flexible, but when the project goes sideways require your
> clients to go to some kind of regular hourly billing and a lowered
> turnaround expectation. Put this in your contract and everyone ends up
> happy.
>
> Hope this random rambling spew helps.
>
> -john
>
> On Tue, 2010-06-22 at 10:35 -0700, Stephen Lacy wrote:
> > Hey all,
> >
> > I've been a software engineer for well over 10 years, mainly C++, but
> > Python for about the last year, and I'm really enjoying it.
> >
> > I'm getting more and more interested in transitioning from a
> > full-timer at a large company to being a Python+Django freelance
> > consultant.  My background is mainly in engineering, not design, but
> > of course I'm fully versed in HTML+CSS, I'm just not the best person
> > to be designing interfaces from scratch or doing complex visual design
> > & graphics.
> >
> > Has anyone here made this transition before?  How did it go?  My
> > biggest fears are:
> >
> > - How am I going to attract clients? (Although this list, and sites
> > like djanggigs.com seem like pretty good sources to start.)
> > - Am I good at managing client relationships?  How hard will this be?
> > (billing, scope creep, missed deadlines, etc.)
> > - What about the graphics/visual design side of things?  What do you
> > usually do for this, or has the client already outsourced a design and
> > they just need implementation?
> > - Maybe I just want to get a FT position with a web design&build firm
> > instead?  What are the pros/cons of that approach vs. freelancing?
> >
> > Any thoughts or experiences from people who have done this transition
> > would be great.  Thanks!
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Tue Jun 22 22:13:05 2010
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 13:13:05 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Thoughts on starting a career as a consultant?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikm4l19EmuJQ0hVTZMTXadwmFsMGRnfYoQS_uMz@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinnKXIaZPM-6Vzg5mNvM3oJ9NWEcWFt-IG5ZpTD@mail.gmail.com>
	<1277230058.28129.295.camel@Frank-Brain>
	<AANLkTikm4l19EmuJQ0hVTZMTXadwmFsMGRnfYoQS_uMz@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201006221313.06090.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>

On Tuesday 22 June 2010 12:30:49 Elizabeth Leddy wrote: 
> Oh and be prepared for people to not pay on time. I've had clients that
> were on the mark and paid days later and others that dragged it out for 6+
> months. Really business/money saavy clients know how to string you along.
> Keep a keen eye out for these types and make sure the payment terms are
> strict and clear, with penalties.

+10 to this, too. Unbelievably frustrating. 

I've been freelancing since February, and while I can't speak to some of the 
other concerns as I'm only doing this till I go back to school this August (so 
skimping on health insurance, getting most of my work from people I met months 
ago, etc) the late payments thing is really nerve-wracking.

> 
> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 11:07 AM, John Withers <grayarea at reddagger.org>wrote:
> > I can handle a couple of these, others I don't know so much about.
> > 
> > Note that I have been w-2 for the last 7 years, so my thinking might be
> > somewhat out of date.
> > 
> > 1. Hook up with a good designer who understands code and dealing with
> > clients. This a must or you are going to severely limit the range of
> > your possible contracts. In my experience about 50% of the people you
> > run into are going to need the whole shebang. Or, as I have seen more
> > than once, they start with a designer, realize they don't actually like
> > what is happening, and start casting about. If you have one in your
> > pocket, your stock shoots up. You can email me personally if you want a
> > reference to someone I think is quite good and have worked with.
> > 
> > 2. Healthcare and taxes are brutal. Spend some time getting to know
> > about these issues. Then sit down and start drawing up how many hours
> > you have to work at what for you seems a slightly low rate, a medium
> > rate, and a high rate. Then compare your rates with others who are
> > working as freelancers and see how they stack up. Too many people don't
> > do this before they leave a W-2.
> > 
> > 3. Attracting those first few clients is a pain, in my experience. After
> > that, it just kind of rolls on its own if you do good work. Being good
> > at speaking and promoting is a definite plus. Donna, on this list, is
> > really exceptional that that. I don't know if she still does, but she
> > used to speak at the drop of a hat.
> > 
> > Speaking and writing for groups that aren't all tech heads brings in
> > money. In an entirely different field, I once wrote a set of articles
> > taking down pretty much verbatim some stuff from a guy who was good at
> > sandblasting. Got them published in a sign magazine. I rapidly became an
> > acknowledged expert in the field of sandblasting signs. I didn't know
> > crap about sandblasting; I knew about writing. But that exposure and a
> > couple of grants put me through college. I dropped the whole thing once
> > I was done with school, but I could have made a whole mediocre career as
> > a writer/expert in the sign trade.
> > 
> > 4. Managing client relationships is a nightmare, period. Scope creep
> > happens. Random crap happens. I have been on both ends of this. Right
> > now I am being a nightmare client for a designer/developer team. It
> > isn't really my fault and more the organization I am embedded in, but it
> > is ugly. A two month project has stretched to almost a year. And my
> > developer is handling it brilliantly. He blocked the time at the start
> > of the project, charged a low amount for blocking it, and then when we
> > ran over, he allowed as how he was still on it, but that he couldn't
> > guarantee turn around times anymore and very nicely made it obvious that
> > was on us. And kept billing in dribs and drabs as we actually made
> > decisions. By being flexible and chill and putting up with our crap, he
> > is going to end up making at least half again what was originally
> > spec'ed.
> > 
> > Moral of the story from me watching him handle this better than I used
> > to: be totally flexible, but when the project goes sideways require your
> > clients to go to some kind of regular hourly billing and a lowered
> > turnaround expectation. Put this in your contract and everyone ends up
> > happy.
> > 
> > Hope this random rambling spew helps.
> > 
> > -john
> > 
> > On Tue, 2010-06-22 at 10:35 -0700, Stephen Lacy wrote:
> > > Hey all,
> > > 
> > > I've been a software engineer for well over 10 years, mainly C++, but
> > > Python for about the last year, and I'm really enjoying it.
> > > 
> > > I'm getting more and more interested in transitioning from a
> > > full-timer at a large company to being a Python+Django freelance
> > > consultant.  My background is mainly in engineering, not design, but
> > > of course I'm fully versed in HTML+CSS, I'm just not the best person
> > > to be designing interfaces from scratch or doing complex visual design
> > > & graphics.
> > > 
> > > Has anyone here made this transition before?  How did it go?  My
> > > biggest fears are:
> > > 
> > > - How am I going to attract clients? (Although this list, and sites
> > > like djanggigs.com seem like pretty good sources to start.)
> > > - Am I good at managing client relationships?  How hard will this be?
> > > (billing, scope creep, missed deadlines, etc.)
> > > - What about the graphics/visual design side of things?  What do you
> > > usually do for this, or has the client already outsourced a design and
> > > they just need implementation?
> > > - Maybe I just want to get a FT position with a web design&build firm
> > > instead?  What are the pros/cons of that approach vs. freelancing?
> > > 
> > > Any thoughts or experiences from people who have done this transition
> > > would be great.  Thanks!
> > > 
> > > Steve
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Baypiggies mailing list
> > > Baypiggies at python.org
> > > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

----
Rami Chowdhury
"Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice."
-- Grey's Law
+1-408-597-7068 / +44-7875-841-046 / +88-01819-245544

From alvinwang at gmail.com  Tue Jun 22 20:07:43 2010
From: alvinwang at gmail.com (Alvin Wang)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 11:07:43 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Thoughts on starting a career as a consultant?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinnKXIaZPM-6Vzg5mNvM3oJ9NWEcWFt-IG5ZpTD@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinnKXIaZPM-6Vzg5mNvM3oJ9NWEcWFt-IG5ZpTD@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTiksKA0IJdl49pksQ1y0EHdohxZ2nVrufgwo014Q@mail.gmail.com>

I have been a freelancer off and on for over 20 yrs.

My advice is to go through head hunter agencies especially in Silicon
Valley.  They do take a cut but you only pay the one that finds you work.
They also deal with billing.  They know where the better pay contracts are.
If you have short gigs, you will spend far too much time looking for work.

I use 3-4 agencies.  The key to managing more than 1 agency is that you do
not allow them to send you in until they call you with the name of the
company.  Do not allow more than 1 agency to submit you to the same company
regardless of what they say.

Alvin

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Stephen Lacy <slacy at slacy.com> wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> I've been a software engineer for well over 10 years, mainly C++, but
> Python for about the last year, and I'm really enjoying it.
>
> I'm getting more and more interested in transitioning from a full-timer at
> a large company to being a Python+Django freelance consultant.  My
> background is mainly in engineering, not design, but of course I'm fully
> versed in HTML+CSS, I'm just not the best person to be designing interfaces
> from scratch or doing complex visual design & graphics.
>
> Has anyone here made this transition before?  How did it go?  My biggest
> fears are:
>
> - How am I going to attract clients? (Although this list, and sites like
> djanggigs.com seem like pretty good sources to start.)
> - Am I good at managing client relationships?  How hard will this be?
> (billing, scope creep, missed deadlines, etc.)
> - What about the graphics/visual design side of things?  What do you
> usually do for this, or has the client already outsourced a design and they
> just need implementation?
> - Maybe I just want to get a FT position with a web design&build firm
> instead?  What are the pros/cons of that approach vs. freelancing?
>
> Any thoughts or experiences from people who have done this transition would
> be great.  Thanks!
>
> Steve
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From slander at unworkable.org  Wed Jun 23 06:27:23 2010
From: slander at unworkable.org (Harry Tormey)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 21:27:23 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Generating tokens for password reset
Message-ID: <20100623042723.GA31522@unworkable.org>

Hi All,
I am in the process of creating a password reset form and I want to generate a url with a token 
to be sent out to a given user so that they can reset their accounts password. Any suggestions 
on how to do this? 

-- 
Harry Tormey
Co Founder P2P Research
http://p2presearch.com
Founder PyGameSF
http://pygamesf.org
Director
http://snaptic.com

From max at theslimmers.net  Wed Jun 23 06:42:32 2010
From: max at theslimmers.net (Max Slimmer)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 21:42:32 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Generating tokens for password reset
In-Reply-To: <20100623042723.GA31522@unworkable.org>
References: <20100623042723.GA31522@unworkable.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinr-OsPBZzy2AcpuC8Rey8yRhDRNYE--0VWCDRk@mail.gmail.com>

web2py has this functionality built in, you might look at how they did
it (Python based framework)
max


On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Harry Tormey <slander at unworkable.org> wrote:
> Hi All,
> I am in the process of creating a password reset form and I want to generate a url with a token
> to be sent out to a given user so that they can reset their accounts password. Any suggestions
> on how to do this?
>
> --
> Harry Tormey
> Co Founder P2P Research
> http://p2presearch.com
> Founder PyGameSF
> http://pygamesf.org
> Director
> http://snaptic.com
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com  Wed Jun 23 07:12:17 2010
From: jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com (Jeremy Fishman)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 22:12:17 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Generating tokens for password reset
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinr-OsPBZzy2AcpuC8Rey8yRhDRNYE--0VWCDRk@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100623042723.GA31522@unworkable.org>
	<AANLkTinr-OsPBZzy2AcpuC8Rey8yRhDRNYE--0VWCDRk@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinbRDPNy1tkSfHHDBPT5U8gIX8Tpyp8PPA7hBjp@mail.gmail.com>

Django also has the password_reset_confirm and password_reset_complete
views.

As for the raw code generating the token it looks like the default is

def _make_token_with_timestamp(self, user, timestamp):
    # timestamp is number of days since 2001-1-1.  Converted to
    # base 36, this gives us a 3 digit string until about 2121
    ts_b36 = int_to_base36(timestamp)

    # By hashing on the internal state of the user and using state
    # that is sure to change (the password salt will change as soon as
    # the password is set, at least for current Django auth, and
    # last_login will also change), we produce a hash that will be
    # invalid as soon as it is used.
    # We limit the hash to 20 chars to keep URL short
    from django.utils.hashcompat import sha_constructor
    hash = sha_constructor(settings.SECRET_KEY + unicode(user.id) +
                           user.password +
user.last_login.strftime('%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S') +
                           unicode(timestamp)).hexdigest()[::2]
    return "%s-%s" % (ts_b36, hash)

  - Jeremy

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Max Slimmer <max at theslimmers.net> wrote:

> web2py has this functionality built in, you might look at how they did
> it (Python based framework)
> max
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Harry Tormey <slander at unworkable.org>
> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> > I am in the process of creating a password reset form and I want to
> generate a url with a token
> > to be sent out to a given user so that they can reset their accounts
> password. Any suggestions
> > on how to do this?
> >
> > --
> > Harry Tormey
> > Co Founder P2P Research
> > http://p2presearch.com
> > Founder PyGameSF
> > http://pygamesf.org
> > Director
> > http://snaptic.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From davidoff56 at alluvialsw.com  Wed Jun 23 06:45:52 2010
From: davidoff56 at alluvialsw.com (Monte Davidoff)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 21:45:52 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Generating tokens for password reset
In-Reply-To: <20100623042723.GA31522@unworkable.org>
References: <20100623042723.GA31522@unworkable.org>
Message-ID: <4C219180.8020708@alluvialsw.com>

On 6/22/10 9:27 PM, Harry Tormey wrote:
> Hi All,
> I am in the process of creating a password reset form and I want to generate a url with a token to be sent out to a given user so that they can reset their accounts password. Any suggestions on how to do this?
>    

Take a look at how Django does it in 
django.contrib.auth.views.password_reset_* functions. See 
http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/auth/.

Monte

From p at ulmcnett.com  Wed Jun 23 07:02:54 2010
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 22:02:54 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Thoughts on starting a career as a consultant?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikm4l19EmuJQ0hVTZMTXadwmFsMGRnfYoQS_uMz@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinnKXIaZPM-6Vzg5mNvM3oJ9NWEcWFt-IG5ZpTD@mail.gmail.com>	<1277230058.28129.295.camel@Frank-Brain>
	<AANLkTikm4l19EmuJQ0hVTZMTXadwmFsMGRnfYoQS_uMz@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C21957E.2020907@ulmcnett.com>

On 6/22/10 12:30 PM, Elizabeth Leddy wrote:
> +1000 on the health and taxes part. If you aren't into learning all
> about taxes, get an accountant. Whenever I get money in I immediately
> put 50% aside for taxes. You also should get your estimated tax payments
> set up if you have any kind of guessable income.

Excellent advice. Due to my entire situation, I either end up owing a lot of money to 
the IRS or getting a decent refund. Sock that money away so you don't have to borrow 
it from your savings.

I think the best thing I did when I became a consultant was to marry my long-time 
girlfriend, an educator in the local school district. She has killer health 
insurance, which extends to her spouse. In the ten years we've been married, I've 
undergone cancer chemotherapy, time in ICU, so many ct scans I've lost count, several 
operations, to the tune of something like $400K in hospital and doctor bills.

> Oh and be prepared for people to not pay on time. I've had clients that
> were on the mark and paid days later and others that dragged it out for
> 6+ months. Really business/money saavy clients know how to string you
> along. Keep a keen eye out for these types and make sure the payment
> terms are strict and clear, with penalties.

This has happened too often to me. I currently have one bill that's about 8 months 
old, and I'm still providing service because its a friend and I know he's having 
difficulties. I've had other clients where I've had to stop working to get them to 
pay. And I've had others that simply never paid me, even though I provided the service.

But mostly, I've worked with people that respect me and want to keep me happy, and so 
they tend to pay my bills almost as fast as I send them out. The mutual respect 
really feels good.

I've always been more of a conversation and handshake kind of guy, rather than 
drawing up and signing contracts. So far, all in all, it has worked out for me. I get 
to live a good life, work out of my home on my terms and when I feel like it, 
sometimes burning the midnight oil to get a project done, and feel good about what I do.

> I just started working with freshbooks.com <http://freshbooks.com> and I
> like it way better than stuff I've used in the past. I also use mint.com
> <http://mint.com> to manage which items are tax deductible - they make
> it really easy.

I use my home-brewed time and billing program (written in Python of course), Quicken 
and my long-time accountant. I'd probably use freshbooks if starting today, but can't 
really justify jumping over now, given that the status quo works.

> As for health insurance, things have dramatically changed and are still
> changing with the new legislation. I saved a lot of money (monthly) by
> switching to basically a catastrophe plan ($250/month down to $52) but I
> have a high deductible so if you can have that money in the bank shop
> around on plans. I really like this health insurance search engine and
> check often to see if I can get better rates:
> http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/
>
> I just switched over to full time contractor after doing it on the side
> for many years. I'm incredibly happy with the freedom that comes from it
> so keep that in mind when you read about all the work that comes too! :)

The life sure is great, but it takes discipline to stay on task sometimes. I find 
that when I'm overwhelmed with things to do, I'm happiest and am able to deliver most 
of what is required in the time available. But when I'm not swamped, I tend to do 
more social networking or trips to the fridge, and don't deliver simple things on time.

When you are a consultant working off site, there is nobody managing you, so you need 
to manage yourself. You may be saying "well, duh" but this has been my greatest 
struggle: staying on task, and staying billable.

Paul

From grayarea at reddagger.org  Wed Jun 23 07:37:05 2010
From: grayarea at reddagger.org (John Withers)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 22:37:05 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Thoughts on starting a career as a consultant?
In-Reply-To: <4C21957E.2020907@ulmcnett.com>
References: <AANLkTinnKXIaZPM-6Vzg5mNvM3oJ9NWEcWFt-IG5ZpTD@mail.gmail.com>
	<1277230058.28129.295.camel@Frank-Brain>
	<AANLkTikm4l19EmuJQ0hVTZMTXadwmFsMGRnfYoQS_uMz@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C21957E.2020907@ulmcnett.com>
Message-ID: <1277271425.28129.299.camel@Frank-Brain>

On Tue, 2010-06-22 at 22:02 -0700, Paul McNett wrote:

> When you are a consultant working off site, there is nobody managing you, so you need 
> to manage yourself. You may be saying "well, duh" but this has been my greatest 
> struggle: staying on task, and staying billable.

+1

Hands down my largest work problem when I am working on my own. Not
taxes, health insurance, late billing, getting clients or anything else.
My productivity is about halved if I am working for long periods of time
on my own. 

-john


From slander at unworkable.org  Wed Jun 23 08:01:01 2010
From: slander at unworkable.org (Harry Tormey)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 23:01:01 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Generating tokens for password reset
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinbRDPNy1tkSfHHDBPT5U8gIX8Tpyp8PPA7hBjp@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100623042723.GA31522@unworkable.org>
	<AANLkTinr-OsPBZzy2AcpuC8Rey8yRhDRNYE--0VWCDRk@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinbRDPNy1tkSfHHDBPT5U8gIX8Tpyp8PPA7hBjp@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100623060101.GA1698@unworkable.org>


Thanks for the suggestions guys. I am using pylons with beaker
sessions, anyone know of any pylons related projects that do
something like this?


On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 10:12:17PM -0700, Jeremy Fishman wrote:
> Django also has the password_reset_confirm and password_reset_complete
> views.
> 
> As for the raw code generating the token it looks like the default is
> 
> def _make_token_with_timestamp(self, user, timestamp):
>     # timestamp is number of days since 2001-1-1.  Converted to
>     # base 36, this gives us a 3 digit string until about 2121
>     ts_b36 = int_to_base36(timestamp)
> 
>     # By hashing on the internal state of the user and using state
>     # that is sure to change (the password salt will change as soon as
>     # the password is set, at least for current Django auth, and
>     # last_login will also change), we produce a hash that will be
>     # invalid as soon as it is used.
>     # We limit the hash to 20 chars to keep URL short
>     from django.utils.hashcompat import sha_constructor
>     hash = sha_constructor(settings.SECRET_KEY + unicode(user.id) +
>                            user.password +
> user.last_login.strftime('%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S') +
>                            unicode(timestamp)).hexdigest()[::2]
>     return "%s-%s" % (ts_b36, hash)
> 
>   - Jeremy
> 
> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Max Slimmer <max at theslimmers.net> wrote:
> 
> > web2py has this functionality built in, you might look at how they did
> > it (Python based framework)
> > max
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Harry Tormey <slander at unworkable.org>
> > wrote:
> > > Hi All,
> > > I am in the process of creating a password reset form and I want to
> > generate a url with a token
> > > to be sent out to a given user so that they can reset their accounts
> > password. Any suggestions
> > > on how to do this?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Harry Tormey
> > > Co Founder P2P Research
> > > http://p2presearch.com
> > > Founder PyGameSF
> > > http://pygamesf.org
> > > Director
> > > http://snaptic.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Baypiggies mailing list
> > > Baypiggies at python.org
> > > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >

-- 
Harry Tormey
Co Founder P2P Research
http://p2presearch.com
Founder PyGameSF
http://pygamesf.org
Director
http://snaptic.com

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jun 23 17:13:30 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 08:13:30 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Thoughts on starting a career as a consultant?
In-Reply-To: <1277271425.28129.299.camel@Frank-Brain>
References: <AANLkTinnKXIaZPM-6Vzg5mNvM3oJ9NWEcWFt-IG5ZpTD@mail.gmail.com>
	<1277230058.28129.295.camel@Frank-Brain>
	<AANLkTikm4l19EmuJQ0hVTZMTXadwmFsMGRnfYoQS_uMz@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C21957E.2020907@ulmcnett.com>
	<1277271425.28129.299.camel@Frank-Brain>
Message-ID: <20100623151330.GA6228@panix.com>

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010, John Withers wrote:
> On Tue, 2010-06-22 at 22:02 -0700, Paul McNett wrote:
>> 
>> When you are a consultant working off site, there is nobody managing
>> you, so you need to manage yourself. You may be saying "well, duh"
>> but this has been my greatest struggle: staying on task, and staying
>> billable.
>
> Hands down my largest work problem when I am working on my own. Not
> taxes, health insurance, late billing, getting clients or anything
> else.  My productivity is about halved if I am working for long
> periods of time on my own.

And this is precisely why I stay W-2.  I've learned that I need the
energy that comes from being part of a team.  There's nothing wrong with
figuring out that the consulting/freelance life is not for you.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra

From chris.leemesser at gmail.com  Wed Jun 23 17:41:49 2010
From: chris.leemesser at gmail.com (Christopher Lee-Messer)
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 08:41:49 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Thoughts on starting a career as a consultant?
In-Reply-To: <1277230058.28129.295.camel@Frank-Brain>
References: <AANLkTinnKXIaZPM-6Vzg5mNvM3oJ9NWEcWFt-IG5ZpTD@mail.gmail.com>
	<1277230058.28129.295.camel@Frank-Brain>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimX4Y_NNbhxbWM5NzN1q4mzkirn2UrWQOD4nihr@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 11:07 AM, John Withers <grayarea at reddagger.org> wrote:

> 1. Hook up with a good designer who understands code and dealing with clients. [snip]

This sounds like good advice.  How did you find the designer you work with?

Does anyone have advice on how to find such a person: a good web
designer  who has the ability to design for templates like those used
by django, mako, etc.

-Chris

From alexandre.conrad at gmail.com  Wed Jun 23 18:19:25 2010
From: alexandre.conrad at gmail.com (Alexandre Conrad)
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 18:19:25 +0200
Subject: [Baypiggies] Thoughts on starting a career as a consultant?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimX4Y_NNbhxbWM5NzN1q4mzkirn2UrWQOD4nihr@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinnKXIaZPM-6Vzg5mNvM3oJ9NWEcWFt-IG5ZpTD@mail.gmail.com>
	<1277230058.28129.295.camel@Frank-Brain>
	<AANLkTimX4Y_NNbhxbWM5NzN1q4mzkirn2UrWQOD4nihr@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin8BsieGy7nDbvIYHJH5IsF5ETOCGmFc3YC-R6a@mail.gmail.com>

2010/6/23 Christopher Lee-Messer <chris.leemesser at gmail.com>

> Does anyone have advice on how to find such a person: a good web
> designer  who has the ability to design for templates like those used
> by django, mako, etc.
>


IMO, the designer shouldn't care about the templating engine. You should
provide HTML pages with correct semantics, and he will do the CSS without
having to touch the HTML. I do both HTML and design. But when I wear my
designer hat, I don't have to touch HTML.

That said, I never worked with a designer so things may be different in real
life. I would be interested to have some feedback. But that's off-topic.

-- 
Alex
twitter.com/alexconrad
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From roderick at sanfransystems.com  Wed Jun 23 18:24:39 2010
From: roderick at sanfransystems.com (Roderick Llewellyn)
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 09:24:39 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Consulting
References: <mailman.7028.1277237408.32708.baypiggies@python.org>
Message-ID: <841BE1EC674247F189591F747392EB21@orion>

Hello all! I have done a lot of consulting during my career. I generally 
found that it fit my lifestyle and mentality much better than fulltime work. 
Most of my clients were very small companies (often ones just started up) 
where the company's founders had some ideas, rarely very fleshed out, and 
wanted a professional software developer to implement them. Recent changes 
in the market make consulting more difficult (though I am on a contract 
right now). The rise of open source has caused some firms to believe that 
they don't really need very sophisticated engineers, as they think they can 
simply download anything they need off the web and really just require a few 
junior people to wire it all together. This means there are many fewer 
positions than there used to be. Also some companies believe that if they're 
going to outsource (to consultants) anyway, they might as well offshore. 
This effect has driven some consulting rates down to little more than 
grocery-bagging wages. This is a kind of rambling set of considerations that 
may or may not be of any use to you. But I do have 35 years experience doing 
it. I won't answer specific questions of the form of "who should build the 
GUI" because I don't know you. These are more general points that anyone 
contemplating moving into consulting should ponder.

Now one problem you should take note of, mentioned but not detailed by a 
prior poster, is the issue of health insurance. If you are young, you 
probably give almost no thought to it (I didn't lol)... since it is 
extremely cheap at that age, hey your're immortal anyway, and you'd rather 
have a fast car, right? lol. If you are 40 or so this issue should be given 
a lot of thought... and even if you're much younger it can affect your 
career planning. While you're young, get a private policy and hold on to it. 
Occasionally during your consulting career you may take fulltime jobs, 
particularly as mentioned above due to the increasing scarcity of consulting 
positions (worth taking anyway). These will generally offer health 
insurance, and you will be tempted to drop your private coverage as you are 
basically wasting money. I did this. I then found out once I left my 
fulltime position that health insurers have no intention whatsoever of 
insuring anybody over 50 and are not even enthusiastic about insuring those 
over 40. They will look for any excuse to avoid insuring you and there is no 
law preventing this, medical insurance is not a right in America. If you are 
really lucky and/or good at negotiating, when you are forced to take a 
fulltime job, you may be able to get your employer to pay for the private 
insurance you already have, rather than putting you on their plan. Company 
type plans are usually more expensive than individual plans. COBRA and 
programs like that are entirely useless because they only guarantee coverage 
for 18 months. I've briefly checked out the einsurance site mentioned by a 
prior poster. So far as I can tell, it is merely a gateway into the regular 
insurers' application processes. If they've turned you down applying 
yourself, they will turn you down applying thru that site. While the health 
reform bill might help, its effects at this time are unclear (I'll admit it, 
I haven't read all 2700 pages or whatever lol). In any case, it's likely 
that (to risk waxing political for a moment) as soon as the Republicans 
return to office they will rip down this bill. During the last ten years 
before you qualify for Medicare private insurance will become very 
expensive. To get insurance, what my domestic partner and I did was form a 
2-person company. California law does not permit health insurers to deny 
coverage to corporate customers due to preexisting medical conditions, but 
the insurers CAN deny coverage if your company does not earn enough revenue. 
You also must have at least 2 people in your company. You should form an LLC 
and use that for all your billing (even if health insurance still is of no 
importance to you despite what I've said). Most modern companies will not 
issue 1099 tax forms to individuals anymore. They like "corp-to-corp" 
billing. So make a corp. You can use LegalZoom or other online legal site to 
create an LLC at low expense.

There are numerous "job house" type firms that hire you as a full-timer but 
call you a "consultant" and shop you out to their clients. This is usually a 
very bad arrangement for you particularly as you get older, though it might 
provide good experience when you're young. It's basically like a condo 
(combines the worst features of owning a house and renting an apartment). In 
this case, it combines the worst features of full-time work with the worst 
of consulting. First, you are not guaranteed any specific "duty cycle" of 
work, not that there are really any guarantees in this world anyway. When 
you are not working (because the job house doesn't have anything for you 
right now), you probably won't get healthcare, and they may not even cover 
it while you are working. Second, they will want a HUGE cut of whatever 
outrageous rates for which they're billing you, leaving not very much for 
you, but I don't have any figures for this. This kind of arrangement may be 
helpful for meeting people, whereupon you can eventually strike out on your 
own. Naturally they will force you to sign a "no-compete" clause that may 
delay your actual ability to go work for firms they originally put you on 
to. Third, you basically represent the job house to the client. The job 
house is MUCH more concerned with their business relationship with their 
client firm than they are about you. If there is even the slightest 
complaint from the client firm about you, even if totally ridiculous, 
your're out. And you can bet the client firms know this... so you're always 
treading on thin ice. They will blame you for anything that goes wrong. 
(this is basically true whenever you act as a consultant).

Regular head-hunters I've found generally useless for finding consulting 
work. During the dot-com boom, firms were so desperate for talent that even 
positions which had been specced for full-time, you could negotiate yourself 
into a contract. With the generally lousy economy, hirers are "feeling their 
oats" and will generally not negotiate over anything, they'd rather just go 
to the next candidate even if you are more ideal. Most firms don't want 
consultants as they believe consultants don't have their "corporate 
culture". They want people who will work very long hours (I'm talking small 
companies here) for small stock grants (i.e., they want fools lol). Most 
head-hunting firms don't even really have consulting work.

I found in my consulting career that I was not working probably 30-40% of 
the time. This is somewhat made up by higher pay rates. But be aware, as I 
said above, that these days a lot of firms intend to pay almost nothing. 
I've seen wages offered not infrequently between $10 to $20/hr. To some 
degree you are competing against Bangalore and guru.com, whose goal is to 
drive consulting rates down to rock bottom levels. You may have to look 
around for quite a while before you find something good. I did. I'd been 
looking for 3 years before I found a contract in Feb. One advantage (to me 
anyway) of consulting is that I am over 50, and most small firms have no 
intention of bringing anybody into their firm of that age as full-time 
employees. With consulting that is much less of a problem. They want you for 
what you can do, not what you look like, what kind of music to which you 
listen, what style of eyeglasses you wear, etc. They will be much "crisper" 
in dealing with consultants. They're (hopefully!) paying you a high hourly 
wage, so they will waste very little of your time with meetings, team 
building excercises, corporate culture indoctrination, and such. I've never 
been cheated in billing... but do be aware that as a consultant, if the firm 
is having any  money problems at all, you are the absolute LAST person to 
get paid. PG&E ranks WAY above you! If a client becomes late in payment, 
it's a good idea to find out why early on. Most consulting contracts do not 
contain an interest term, so your clients have an incentive to delay payment 
as long as they think you will actually continue to work; thus your final 
payment is most at risk. If you continue to work for many months without pay 
because the firm claims "financing is around the corner", you should be 
aware that you are essentially acting as an investor (the money you would 
have been paid is being used for other things, and you're at risk if they 
fail)... as an investor you should be entitled to some consideration. In 
some cases I've been able to negotiate stock or royalty deals when this has 
happened. They haven't really worked out, but it's better (maybe) than just 
ending up with nothing. Again, if the client firm is more than say 2 months 
late, there is probably a major problem, and continuing to work there is 
very risky. Naturally the more you work, the more money you will lose if 
they go under, so it becomes harder and harder to just walk away (since you 
will certainly not get paid your back fees if you do walk away). You will 
have a contract, but suing is usually pointless because A. the firm has no 
money and B. the courts take so long to render any decision that the firm 
will have vanished by the time you get a court hearing, and also C. legal 
action is very expensive. So risk management becomes important in this case.

Hope this helps a little. - Roderick Llewellyn



From kpguy at rediffmail.com  Thu Jun 24 21:46:24 2010
From: kpguy at rediffmail.com (Vikram )
Date: 24 Jun 2010 19:46:24 -0000
Subject: [Baypiggies] =?utf-8?q?list_sorting?=
Message-ID: <20100624194624.31816.qmail@f6mail-145-189.rediffmail.com>

Suppose i have this:
------

>>> z1 = [[34,44,'1011'],[40,60,'1011'],[50,50,'1013'],[40,20,'1011'],[10,30,'1013']]
>>> z1
[[34, 44, '1011'], [40, 60, '1011'], [50, 50, '1013'], [40, 20, '1011'], [10, 30, '1013']]
>>> for i in z1:
	 print i

	 
[34, 44, '1011']
[40, 60, '1011']
[50, 50, '1013']
[40, 20, '1011']
[10, 30, '1013']
>>> 

----

how do i sort the nested list z1 so as to obtain:

bla = [[34,44,'1011'],[40,20,'1011'],[40,60,'1011'],[10,30,'1013'],[50,50,'1013']]

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From aleax at google.com  Thu Jun 24 21:59:12 2010
From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 12:59:12 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] list sorting
In-Reply-To: <20100624194624.31816.qmail@f6mail-145-189.rediffmail.com>
References: <20100624194624.31816.qmail@f6mail-145-189.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimCPlEfRGpMwUiQGV6wWeN4e90bWBEI6xHo7sw4@mail.gmail.com>

>>> import operator
>>> sorted(z1, key=operator.itemgetter(2,0,1))
[[34, 44, '1011'], [40, 20, '1011'], [40, 60, '1011'], [10, 30, '1013'],
[50, 50, '1013']]
>>>


Alex

On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Vikram <kpguy at rediffmail.com> wrote:

> Suppose i have this:
> ------
>
> >>> z1 =
> [[34,44,'1011'],[40,60,'1011'],[50,50,'1013'],[40,20,'1011'],[10,30,'1013']]
> >>> z1
> [[34, 44, '1011'], [40, 60, '1011'], [50, 50, '1013'], [40, 20, '1011'],
> [10, 30, '1013']]
> >>> for i in z1:
> print i
>
>
> [34, 44, '1011']
> [40, 60, '1011']
> [50, 50, '1013']
> [40, 20, '1011']
> [10, 30, '1013']
> >>>
>
> ----
>
> how do i sort the nested list z1 so as to obtain:
>
> bla =
> [[34,44,'1011'],[40,20,'1011'],[40,60,'1011'],[10,30,'1013'],[50,50,'1013']]
>
>
>
> <http://sigads.rediff.com/RealMedia/ads/click_nx.ads/www.rediffmail.com/signatureline.htm at Middle?>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From ahk1212 at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 25 15:03:23 2010
From: ahk1212 at yahoo.com (Andrew Klein)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 06:03:23 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Contract Django/Python work
Message-ID: <BBCA9726033F496AB1E91066DBB18168@JenniferPC>

I can't recall if it was decided job postings were not allowed on this mailing list. My apologies if this is not appropriate.

My friend is looking for some contract help to make modifications to this site:

http://www.sftheaterbuzz.org

This is hourly work, probably can be done on the side even if you have a FT job.

Let me know if you're interested.

Thanks!

Andrew Klein
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jun 25 15:28:23 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 06:28:23 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Contract Django/Python work
In-Reply-To: <BBCA9726033F496AB1E91066DBB18168@JenniferPC>
References: <BBCA9726033F496AB1E91066DBB18168@JenniferPC>
Message-ID: <20100625132823.GA7602@panix.com>

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010, Andrew Klein wrote:
>
> I can't recall if it was decided job postings were not allowed on this
> mailing list. My apologies if this is not appropriate.

Job postings are certainly allowed; there was some discussion about
whether to temporarily allow recruiter postings because of the economy
(which we did for a while, and I'm not certain about the current status).

We do generally want the principal to be the person posting, but I think
that the occasional "for a friend" post is fine.  (As long as the poster
really does have a personal relationship with hiring person.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra

From grantbow at gmail.com  Sat Jun 26 02:02:50 2010
From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 17:02:50 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Toaster Activity
Message-ID: <AANLkTikHco7fX5MOxt6C2GaMfO0aFrPyY-Yof63iTAHg@mail.gmail.com>

I enjoyed the Bay Piggies meeting last night.  Here is some more
information about my project that I announced.

The San Francisco One Laptop Per Child user group
http://tinyurl.com/olpcsf which meets monthly at the downtown SFSU
campus is working to support several OLPC http://www.laptop.org
deployments around the world.  Because sugarlabs.org is now a separate
group from laptop.org, anyone can try out the Sugar environment
without the XO-1 or XO-1.5 laptop hardware through Sugar on a Stick
(aka SoaS).  http://mirrors.rit.edu/sugarlabs/soas/docs/creation-kit/index.html
 Just about any computer that can boot from a SoaS USB stick can run a
Sugar environment and load Activities such as Toaster.  A python or
other program running in a Sugar environment is called an Activity.

OLPC SF is looking for contributors to help with our new Sugar / PyGTK
Activity called Toaster, our first Sugar development effort.  Toaster
will share software via USB sticks and burned CD-ROMs.
http://tinyurl.com/olpctoaster redirects to our web presence
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/Toaster which has several
subpages.  There are three tasks I am working on right now.

    1. Designing a user interface now that a rudimentary activity is
running.  Code is available from our git repository.

    2. Developing code using the standard python subprocess library to
interpret the output of the wodim binary as feedback to the user
through the UI

    3. Developing a USB stick back end, selecting one of the various
methods of creating a functional USB stick

Our email list is at: http://groups.google.com/group/xotoaster/

Regards,

Grant Bowman

From adriano at entercast.com  Mon Jun 28 14:25:32 2010
From: adriano at entercast.com (Adriano Marques)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 09:25:32 -0300
Subject: [Baypiggies] Job Openning - Entercast (Palo Alto, CA, USA)
Message-ID: <EF9D2891-D986-4AB4-A87F-1A24B8227231@entercast.com>

Job Description: Currently seeking an experienced Python developer to build highly scalable web based games for Facebook and MySpace. Developer should also be familiar with Google App Engine and Facebook API. Knowledge of Open Social for MySpace or Mixi is also helpful. We looking for passionate developers wishing to build highly engaging and thought provoking games (and applications) that leverage social networks in new and innovative ways.
 
Responsibility:
 - Passionate Python developer for web-based social games
 - Develop games using Python for Google App Engine
 - Follow best practices on software development, and comply with internal Agile Development Methodology
 
Requirements:
 - B.S. or M.S. in Computer Science or equivalent
 - Great skill in Python programming
 - Experience with scaling web-based applications
 - Previous experience with game development
 - Experience with Agile Methodologies
 - SVN and/or Git
 - Proven experience with web development in Python, Django, JavaScript, jQuery, Ajax, CSS, DHTML and cross browser development
 - Ability to work independently and in a team environment
 - Strong software design skills
 - Experienced in developing test suites

Plus:
 - Experience developing Facebook applications
 - Experience developing with Google App Engine
 - Experience developing MySpace applications
 - Experience with I18N and L10N
 - Excitement and desire to work with online games and MMORPG in a social network context
 
Previous work portfolio and resume/CV requested with your inquiry or application. Thanks!

Contact Info:
Contact: Adriano
E-mail contact: adriano at entercast.com
Telecommuting is OK, but the candidate must be willing to relocate later
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From niallo at unworkable.org  Tue Jun 29 00:37:06 2010
From: niallo at unworkable.org (Niall O'Higgins)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 15:37:06 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Py Web SF #11: Tragedy,
 a Python ORM for the Cassandra database - 6pm June 29th @ SFPL
Message-ID: <20100628223706.GH26712@unworkable.org>

Hi folks,

PyWebSF is a Python meet-up with a strong focus on Web technology. From
frameworks like WSGI/Pylons/TurboGears/Django to libraries like httplib2
to using emerging Web technologies like Amazon's AWS and Freebase - its
all covered.

Who/What
--------

* Almir Karic - "Tragedy: a Python ORM for the Cassandra database"
  http://www.pywebsf.org/2010/06/16/almir-karic-tragedy-a-python-orm-for-the-cassandra-database/

When
----

6PM, Tuesday 29 June 2010.
Please try to arrive on time to avoid disappointment.  We have space
for around 10-20 people.

Where
-----

Stong conference room, 1st floor, SF Main Public Library.
Map: http://tinyurl.com/pywebsfmap

The library is easily accessible via both BART and Muni at the Civic
Center station.  The library closes at 8pm so we will continue the
discussion over food/drinks at Frjtz Fries [http://www.frjtzfries.com].

More info
---------

Subscribe to our Google Calendar at http://tinyurl.com/pywebcal

Slides, links, and more at http://pywebsf.org/

Thanks!

-- 
Niall O'Higgins
PyWebSF
http://pywebsf.org
http://niallohiggins.com
http://twitter.com/niallohiggins

From travis+ml-baypiggies at subspacefield.org  Tue Jun 29 22:39:29 2010
From: travis+ml-baypiggies at subspacefield.org (travis+ml-baypiggies at subspacefield.org)
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:39:29 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] python web authoring & programming (PWAP)
Message-ID: <20100629203929.GA22784@subspacefield.org>

Hey all,

I haven't been able to attend - it conflicts with the DC650.org
meeting - but I figured I'd pass along my results from exploring all
the options when authoring web pages & programming web apps in python:

http://www.subspacefield.org/~travis/python_web_authoring_programming.html

One problem with writing web apps using frameworks is that if you pick
an unsuitable one and have to re-write, you'll usually have to do it
from scratch.  So I've put a lot of effort into researching the
options and figuring out what the tradeoffs are.  If you're interested
in jumping into it, this'll save you two weeks of research, or
possibly more (compared to choosing the wrong tools).

Any suggestions are most welcome.
-- 
A Weapon of Mass Construction
My emails do not have attachments; it's a digital signature that your mail
program doesn't understand. | http://www.subspacefield.org/~travis/ 
If you are a spammer, please email john at subspacefield.org to get blacklisted.
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