From ohgarden at cox.net Wed Sep 2 22:54:42 2009 From: ohgarden at cox.net (Tom Michel) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:54:42 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Version 3.1.1 Message-ID: <4A9EDB92.3030508@cox.net> Version 3.1.1 was installed from Python-3.1.1.tgz on Ubuntu 9.04. Why does the version still show 3.0.1? Tom Michel From jeff.enderwick at gmail.com Thu Sep 3 03:40:38 2009 From: jeff.enderwick at gmail.com (Jeff Enderwick) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 18:40:38 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] moving from app engine -> AWS/other, shopping for parts... Message-ID: I am moving a pre-production application off of app engine and into a more 'traditional' virtual hosting environment, most likely Amazon. The app is currently python+django: Django has been fine, but I find all I'm really using it for is the templates. On the DB side, I can shard/make something work with RDBMS. I really like the GAE DB simplicity, parallelism, and 'schema-less' model. I'm not using entity groups anymore, and my transaction requirements are light. What is the most popular, robust, reasonably-efficient library for mating Python to popular RDBMS? Anything that will be an easy port from the GAE apis? Has anyone had production experience with any of those newer DB solns out there, like mongo, voldemort, simpledb, etc? TIA, Jeff From jon at inklesspen.com Thu Sep 3 03:44:33 2009 From: jon at inklesspen.com (Jon Rosebaugh) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 18:44:33 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Version 3.1.1 In-Reply-To: <4A9EDB92.3030508@cox.net> References: <4A9EDB92.3030508@cox.net> Message-ID: Check your path. On Sep 2, 2009, at 1:54 PM, Tom Michel wrote: > Version 3.1.1 was installed from Python-3.1.1.tgz on Ubuntu 9.04. > Why does the version still show 3.0.1? > > Tom Michel > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From jon at inklesspen.com Thu Sep 3 03:45:07 2009 From: jon at inklesspen.com (Jon Rosebaugh) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 18:45:07 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] moving from app engine -> AWS/other, shopping for parts... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <07FD09CD-9A15-4BF2-83BE-2FDFFAD4F105@inklesspen.com> On Sep 2, 2009, at 6:40 PM, Jeff Enderwick wrote: > What is the most popular, robust, reasonably-efficient library for > mating Python to popular RDBMS? SQLAlchemy > Anything that will be an easy port > from the GAE apis? No. From billkatz at gmail.com Thu Sep 3 04:18:51 2009 From: billkatz at gmail.com (Bill Katz) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:18:51 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] moving from app engine -> AWS/other, shopping for parts... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <59aa95140909021918q4ce3f0eave9c419975ee28cf9@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Jeff Enderwick wrote: > I am moving a pre-production application off of app engine and into a > more 'traditional' virtual hosting environment, most likely Amazon. I'd be curious to hear the reason for the move, even if it's offline. > Anything that will be an easy port from the GAE apis? Have you checked out AppScale? http://code.google.com/p/appscale/ -Bill From jeff at drinktomi.com Thu Sep 3 18:11:59 2009 From: jeff at drinktomi.com (Jeff Younker) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 18:11:59 +0200 Subject: [Baypiggies] moving from app engine -> AWS/other, shopping for parts... In-Reply-To: <59aa95140909021918q4ce3f0eave9c419975ee28cf9@mail.gmail.com> References: <59aa95140909021918q4ce3f0eave9c419975ee28cf9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3ADEF9C8-06E7-4F03-BA18-521A15F81F8B@drinktomi.com> On Sep 3, 2009, at 4:18 AM, Bill Katz wrote: > On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Jeff Enderwick > wrote: >> I am moving a pre-production application off of app engine and into a >> more 'traditional' virtual hosting environment, most likely Amazon. > > I'd be curious to hear the reason for the move, even if it's offline. I'm also curious to hear why. -jeff From jjinux at gmail.com Fri Sep 4 01:22:54 2009 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 16:22:54 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] moving from app engine -> AWS/other, shopping for parts... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Jeff Enderwick wrote: > I am moving a pre-production application off of app engine and into a > more 'traditional' virtual hosting environment, most likely Amazon. If you're interested in a Linux VPS, I *adore* RimuHosting: http://jjinux.blogspot.com/2008/06/hosting-rimuhosting.html Best Regards, -jj -- In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From jjinux at gmail.com Fri Sep 4 01:23:46 2009 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 16:23:46 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Version 3.1.1 In-Reply-To: References: <4A9EDB92.3030508@cox.net> Message-ID: Also, I wonder if it installed python31, but didn't symlink python to it. -jj On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Jon Rosebaugh wrote: > Check your path. > > On Sep 2, 2009, at 1:54 PM, Tom Michel wrote: > >> Version 3.1.1 was installed from Python-3.1.1.tgz on Ubuntu 9.04. ?Why >> does the version still show 3.0.1? >> >> Tom Michel >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -- In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From jjinux at gmail.com Fri Sep 4 01:27:01 2009 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 16:27:01 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: [ANN] Pida 0.6beta3 In-Reply-To: <4A9D2E40.5080000@poelzi.org> References: <4A9D2E40.5080000@poelzi.org> Message-ID: Has anyone tried this out? -jj ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: poelzi Date: Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 7:22 AM Subject: [ANN] Pida 0.6beta3 To: python-announce-list at python.org Pida is an IDE (integrated development environment). Pida is different from other IDEs in that it will use the tools you already have available rather than attempting to reinvent each one. Pida has unique features like a pluggable editor component supporting Vim, Emacs and Medit currently. We are proud to announce the hopefully last beta of Pida 0.6. [1] It was a long time since beta2 and a lot of changes happened since then: == Core Highlights == " multiprocessing language plugins ? ?Language plugins can now use a multiprocessing infrastructure which ? ?allows expensive operations to be done on other cpu cores. This ? ?increases the speed of plugins like python_lint and python ? ?dramatically and do not make the gui sluggish anymore. " project file caches ? ?Projects now have a filecache which allows fast queries to filenames ? ?and filetypes. The QuickOpen plugin provides a gui for this, ? ?allowing the user to open files to which parts of the name, path or ? ?filetype are known " very precise feature selection from LanguagePlugins " better filemonitor support " new documentation (needs some gui work tho) " lot of speedups " lot of usability enhancements " lots and lots of fixes == New Plugins == " RegexpToolkit - helps you develop and analyze regular expressions " QuickOpen - fast file opener for project files " WayPoint - autogenerates waypoints when you surf and edit files and ?allows to jump back and forth [1] http://pida.co.uk/blog/0.6beta3 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list ? ? ? ?Support the Python Software Foundation: ? ? ? ?http://www.python.org/psf/donations/ -- In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From bdbaddog at gmail.com Fri Sep 4 01:39:38 2009 From: bdbaddog at gmail.com (William Deegan) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 16:39:38 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] moving from app engine -> AWS/other, shopping for parts... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8540148a0909031639s1ce9f87dvaa5950d9092388c2@mail.gmail.com> JJ & All, You may wish to read the following about rimuhosting.. http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rimuhosting -Bill On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Jeff Enderwick > wrote: > > I am moving a pre-production application off of app engine and into a > > more 'traditional' virtual hosting environment, most likely Amazon. > > If you're interested in a Linux VPS, I *adore* RimuHosting: > http://jjinux.blogspot.com/2008/06/hosting-rimuhosting.html > > Best Regards, > -jj > > -- > In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things > with great love. -- Mother Teresa > http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brent.tubbs at gmail.com Fri Sep 4 02:29:34 2009 From: brent.tubbs at gmail.com (Brent Tubbs) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:29:34 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] moving from app engine -> AWS/other, shopping for parts... In-Reply-To: <8540148a0909031639s1ce9f87dvaa5950d9092388c2@mail.gmail.com> References: <8540148a0909031639s1ce9f87dvaa5950d9092388c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <769bb4300909031729p490d7afdm79ec7a0a32654625@mail.gmail.com> Having followed the link to read the horror story, I'm not sure Rimuhosting did such a horrible thing even if the facts are as stated. If I were renting a server that kept getting crowded out because someone else on the same hardware kept hogging the CPU over the course of 9 months, I'd like to know that the host was doing something about it. Also, thank you to whoever mentioned appscale earlier, I hadn't heard of it. It's nice to know that if Google suddenly turns evil, there's a platform to which I can cleanly migrate my App Engine projects. On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 4:39 PM, William Deegan wrote: > JJ & All, > > You may wish to read the following about rimuhosting.. > http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rimuhosting > > -Bill > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens > wrote: >> >> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Jeff Enderwick >> wrote: >> > I am moving a pre-production application off of app engine and into a >> > more 'traditional' virtual hosting environment, most likely Amazon. >> >> If you're interested in a Linux VPS, I *adore* RimuHosting: >> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/2008/06/hosting-rimuhosting.html >> >> Best Regards, >> -jj >> >> -- >> In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things >> with great love. -- Mother Teresa >> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From aahz at pythoncraft.com Fri Sep 4 05:40:13 2009 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 20:40:13 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] REMINDER: PyCon 2010: Call for Proposals Message-ID: <20090904034013.GA6796@panix.com> Call for proposals -- PyCon 2010 -- =============================================================== Due date: October 1st, 2009 Want to showcase your skills as a Python Hacker? Want to have hundreds of people see your talk on the subject of your choice? Have some hot button issue you think the community needs to address, or have some package, code or project you simply love talking about? Want to launch your master plan to take over the world with python? PyCon is your platform for getting the word out and teaching something new to hundreds of people, face to face. Previous PyCon conferences have had a broad range of presentations, from reports on academic and commercial projects, tutorials on a broad range of subjects and case studies. All conference speakers are volunteers and come from a myriad of backgrounds. Some are new speakers, some are old speakers. Everyone is welcome so bring your passion and your code! We're looking to you to help us top the previous years of success PyCon has had. PyCon 2010 is looking for proposals to fill the formal presentation tracks. The PyCon conference days will be February 19-22, 2010 in Atlanta, Georgia, preceded by the tutorial days (February 17-18), and followed by four days of development sprints (February 22-25). Online proposal submission is open now! Proposals will be accepted through October 1st, with acceptance notifications coming out on November 15th. For the detailed call for proposals, please see: For videos of talks from previous years - check out: We look forward to seeing you in Atlanta! -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "Look, it's your affair if you want to play with five people, but don't go calling it doubles." --John Cleese anticipates Usenet From keith at dartworks.biz Fri Sep 4 06:45:07 2009 From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 21:45:07 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: [ANN] Pida 0.6beta3 In-Reply-To: References: <4A9D2E40.5080000@poelzi.org> Message-ID: <20090903214507.093566b4@dartworks.biz> === On Thu, 09/03, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: === > Has anyone tried this out? === No, but I will. Thanks for the pointer. :-) -- Keith Dart -- -- -------------------- Keith Dart ======================= From bdbaddog at gmail.com Fri Sep 4 06:58:59 2009 From: bdbaddog at gmail.com (William Deegan) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 21:58:59 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] moving from app engine -> AWS/other, shopping for parts... In-Reply-To: <769bb4300909031729p490d7afdm79ec7a0a32654625@mail.gmail.com> References: <8540148a0909031639s1ce9f87dvaa5950d9092388c2@mail.gmail.com> <769bb4300909031729p490d7afdm79ec7a0a32654625@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8540148a0909032158s4bc174b4oe4969d7263c42ee0@mail.gmail.com> Brent, On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Brent Tubbs wrote: > Having followed the link to read the horror story, I'm not sure > Rimuhosting did such a horrible thing even if the facts are as stated. > If I were renting a server that kept getting crowded out because > someone else on the same hardware kept hogging the CPU over the course > of 9 months, I'd like to know that the host was doing something about > it. > I'll have to disagree with you. If I'm a hosting company and one of my clients overruns their quota, I'd shut down the account and send them an alert. Repeated overruns, I'd terminate the account. I don't think it would ever be right to add a root account to a clients server without their permission. Though i suppose if that was in the account's T&C's then it would be o.k. -Bill > > Also, thank you to whoever mentioned appscale earlier, I hadn't heard > of it. It's nice to know that if Google suddenly turns evil, there's > a platform to which I can cleanly migrate my App Engine projects. > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 4:39 PM, William Deegan wrote: > > JJ & All, > > > > You may wish to read the following about rimuhosting.. > > http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rimuhosting > > > > -Bill > > > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens > > wrote: > >> > >> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Jeff Enderwick > > >> wrote: > >> > I am moving a pre-production application off of app engine and into a > >> > more 'traditional' virtual hosting environment, most likely Amazon. > >> > >> If you're interested in a Linux VPS, I *adore* RimuHosting: > >> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/2008/06/hosting-rimuhosting.html > >> > >> Best Regards, > >> -jj > >> > >> -- > >> In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things > >> with great love. -- Mother Teresa > >> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Baypiggies mailing list > >> Baypiggies at python.org > >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Baypiggies mailing list > > Baypiggies at python.org > > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glen at glenjarvis.com Fri Sep 4 17:12:02 2009 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 08:12:02 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Wiki page update Message-ID: I don't consider myself an 'authority' enough on regular expressions to make this edit (although I can explain the basics in Python). So, I thought I would throw this out to the community and see if anyone wanted to take the challenge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_expression Python is mentioned twice at the bottom. It's not, however, used in the examples. Not every program language can be listed as an example. Here is the text (if anyone is interested): Regular expressions are used by many text editors, utilities, and programming languages to search and manipulate text based on patterns. For example, Perl, Ruby and Tcl have a powerful regular expression engine built directly into their syntax. Several utilities provided by Unix distributions?including the editor ed and the filter grep?were the first to popularize the concept of regular expressions. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billkatz at gmail.com Fri Sep 4 20:41:28 2009 From: billkatz at gmail.com (Bill Katz) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 11:41:28 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] moving from app engine -> AWS/other, shopping for parts... In-Reply-To: <97C2745C-BE2A-42D2-8A67-2B53CBAB111C@gmail.com> References: <59aa95140909021918q4ce3f0eave9c419975ee28cf9@mail.gmail.com> <97C2745C-BE2A-42D2-8A67-2B53CBAB111C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <59aa95140909041141x2e23e3d3q16f872bf42e13206@mail.gmail.com> The project looks promising, but I imagine a number of APIs aren't supported yet, like the Task and certainly the new XMPP API. If you restrict your API use, AppScale looks like a decent option. On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Alec Flett wrote: >> >> Have you checked out AppScale? >> http://code.google.com/p/appscale/ >> > Wow, I've been looking for something like this for a while - anyone have any > experience using this? From jeff.enderwick at gmail.com Fri Sep 4 21:14:46 2009 From: jeff.enderwick at gmail.com (Jeff Enderwick) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 12:14:46 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] moving from app engine -> AWS/other, shopping for parts... In-Reply-To: <59aa95140909041141x2e23e3d3q16f872bf42e13206@mail.gmail.com> References: <59aa95140909021918q4ce3f0eave9c419975ee28cf9@mail.gmail.com> <97C2745C-BE2A-42D2-8A67-2B53CBAB111C@gmail.com> <59aa95140909041141x2e23e3d3q16f872bf42e13206@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: my question on that is whether anyone knows whether appscale is being run in a production environment? for example, http://project-voldemort.com/ claims to be in production at LinkedIn. On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Bill Katz wrote: > The project looks promising, but I imagine a number of APIs aren't > supported yet, like the Task and certainly the new XMPP API. ?If you > restrict your API use, AppScale looks like a decent option. > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Alec Flett wrote: >>> >>> Have you checked out AppScale? >>> http://code.google.com/p/appscale/ >>> >> Wow, I've been looking for something like this for a while - anyone have any >> experience using this? > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From john_re at fastmail.us Fri Sep 4 22:35:05 2009 From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 13:35:05 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] May BayPython Videos - Description, More? BerkeleyTIP Sat Sept 5, 1PM Message-ID: <1252096505.30581.1333288135@webmail.messagingengine.com> Re: [Baypiggies] Videos of May's meeting 090811 == Glen - Great work on making the video! ;) If you have 4 minutes immediately, will you please put a description of what these videos are about on this page? The May videos. http://glenjarvis.com/static/media/videos/baypiggies/2009_05_28/ I'll be listing this url as one of the talks for tomorrow's BerkeleyTIP global meeting, & don't have time to search & find out what the may meeting & vidoeos were about. I'm hoping (!) to get the BTIP announcement out later today including info about what these videos are about [cause the BTIP meeting is tomorrow, & a one day in advance announcement would be nice. :) <8-0 ] ===== 1PM is Python hour - Programming Languages - join via VOIP & discuss Python with your global friends :) http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/ == Also, Glen, &/or whoever records python videos - any newer videos? Anyone video Alex's Aug 26 "management" talk??? Keep up the good work. :) From glen at glenjarvis.com Fri Sep 4 23:11:16 2009 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:11:16 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] May BayPython Videos - Description, More? BerkeleyTIP Sat Sept 5, 1PM In-Reply-To: <1252096505.30581.1333288135@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1252096505.30581.1333288135@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <7C2E7BD0-855B-44C6-A93C-6554749330BE@glenjarvis.com> > == Also, Glen, &/or whoever records python videos - any newer > videos? Anyone video Alex's Aug 26 "management" talk??? I did record this talk. However, I hadn't had time to get it converted to a usable format (my Macbook is in the shop :( ) I will do this on the weekend. I have gotten into the habit of just setting up the camera to record and leaving it be (instead of manning it) because usually, I'm standing up and watching the camera for no reason and blocking other people's view. However, I did notice, when switching tapes, that Alex had gotten into his talk (as I did) and moved to the left out of the frame of the camera. I'm not certain how long this had occurred. I have also seen another video of this talk. JJ, can you share that link with me again? My laptop is in the shop and I don't have access to that info right now Cheers, glen From rich.pixley at palm.com Sat Sep 5 19:31:10 2009 From: rich.pixley at palm.com (Rich Pixley) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 10:31:10 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] moving from app engine -> AWS/other, shopping for parts... In-Reply-To: <769bb4300909031729p490d7afdm79ec7a0a32654625@mail.gmail.com> References: <8540148a0909031639s1ce9f87dvaa5950d9092388c2@mail.gmail.com> <769bb4300909031729p490d7afdm79ec7a0a32654625@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AA2A05E.5060705@palm.com> I concur about the "horror" story. The author takes no responsibility for whatever problem existed between himself and rimuhosting even after months of an apparently ongoing problem. He admits overload from yahoo. He admits a cgi script on index. But the only responsibility he takes is for selecting what he thinks is a bad hosting agency. IMO, he had a responsibility for sorting out the problem long before it escalated to the point he's complaining about. Personally, I totally discard his report. FTR, I've never heard of rimuhosting before and have no connection to it. The only message I take from the "horror" story is a cautionary one about the author. --rich Brent Tubbs wrote: > Having followed the link to read the horror story, I'm not sure > Rimuhosting did such a horrible thing even if the facts are as stated. > If I were renting a server that kept getting crowded out because > someone else on the same hardware kept hogging the CPU over the course > of 9 months, I'd like to know that the host was doing something about > it. > > Also, thank you to whoever mentioned appscale earlier, I hadn't heard > of it. It's nice to know that if Google suddenly turns evil, there's > a platform to which I can cleanly migrate my App Engine projects. > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 4:39 PM, William Deegan wrote: > >> JJ & All, >> >> You may wish to read the following about rimuhosting.. >> http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rimuhosting >> >> -Bill >> >> On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens >> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Jeff Enderwick >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I am moving a pre-production application off of app engine and into a >>>> more 'traditional' virtual hosting environment, most likely Amazon. >>>> >>> If you're interested in a Linux VPS, I *adore* RimuHosting: >>> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/2008/06/hosting-rimuhosting.html >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> -jj >>> >>> -- >>> In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things >>> with great love. -- Mother Teresa >>> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Baypiggies mailing list >>> Baypiggies at python.org >>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at zachary.com Sat Sep 5 22:42:28 2009 From: david at zachary.com (David Creemer) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 13:42:28 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] moving from app engine -> AWS/other, shopping for parts... In-Reply-To: <4AA2A05E.5060705@palm.com> References: <8540148a0909031639s1ce9f87dvaa5950d9092388c2@mail.gmail.com> <769bb4300909031729p490d7afdm79ec7a0a32654625@mail.gmail.com> <4AA2A05E.5060705@palm.com> Message-ID: FWIW, I've had nothing but excellent experiences with RimuHosting, both for personal and professional accounts. That said, I use Linode today, mostly because their plans fit my current needs better. I'm also quite please with them (and they have a very nice control panel). -- David On Sep 5, 2009, at 10:31 AM, Rich Pixley wrote: > I concur about the "horror" story. The author takes no > responsibility for whatever problem existed between himself and > rimuhosting even after months of an apparently ongoing problem. He > admits overload from yahoo. He admits a cgi script on index. But > the only responsibility he takes is for selecting what he thinks is > a bad hosting agency. > > IMO, he had a responsibility for sorting out the problem long before > it escalated to the point he's complaining about. Personally, I > totally discard his report. > > FTR, I've never heard of rimuhosting before and have no connection > to it. The only message I take from the "horror" story is a > cautionary one about the author. > > --rich > > Brent Tubbs wrote: >> >> Having followed the link to read the horror story, I'm not sure >> Rimuhosting did such a horrible thing even if the facts are as >> stated. >> If I were renting a server that kept getting crowded out because >> someone else on the same hardware kept hogging the CPU over the >> course >> of 9 months, I'd like to know that the host was doing something about >> it. >> >> Also, thank you to whoever mentioned appscale earlier, I hadn't heard >> of it. It's nice to know that if Google suddenly turns evil, there's >> a platform to which I can cleanly migrate my App Engine projects. >> >> On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 4:39 PM, William Deegan >> wrote: >> >>> JJ & All, >>> >>> You may wish to read the following about rimuhosting.. >>> http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rimuhosting >>> >>> -Bill >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens >> > >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Jeff Enderwick>>> > >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I am moving a pre-production application off of app engine and >>>>> into a >>>>> more 'traditional' virtual hosting environment, most likely >>>>> Amazon. >>>>> >>>> If you're interested in a Linux VPS, I *adore* RimuHosting: >>>> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/2008/06/hosting-rimuhosting.html >>>> >>>> Best Regards, >>>> -jj >>>> >>>> -- >>>> In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things >>>> with great love. -- Mother Teresa >>>> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Baypiggies mailing list >>>> Baypiggies at python.org >>>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Baypiggies mailing list >>> Baypiggies at python.org >>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Sun Sep 6 19:19:18 2009 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 10:19:18 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python Message-ID: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> Here's a good overview Eric Raymond wrote of his experience in learning Python http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3882 Eric is an experienced programmer; his article really touches the nature of "Pythonic". From aahz at pythoncraft.com Sun Sep 6 21:21:06 2009 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:21:06 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python In-Reply-To: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> References: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: <20090906192105.GA23031@panix.com> On Sun, Sep 06, 2009, jim wrote: > > Here's a good overview Eric Raymond wrote of his experience in > learning Python > > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3882 Although that's good, it's also nearly a decade old.... ;-) -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "Look, it's your affair if you want to play with five people, but don't go calling it doubles." --John Cleese anticipates Usenet From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com Sun Sep 6 21:39:19 2009 From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:39:19 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python In-Reply-To: <20090906192105.GA23031@panix.com> References: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> <20090906192105.GA23031@panix.com> Message-ID: <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> I have a fondness for that article, it's one of the things that persuaded me to try learning Python :-) ------------- Rami Chowdhury "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD) On Sep 6, 2009, at 12:21 , Aahz wrote: > On Sun, Sep 06, 2009, jim wrote: >> >> Here's a good overview Eric Raymond wrote of his experience in >> learning Python >> >> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3882 > > Although that's good, it's also nearly a decade old.... ;-) > -- > Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ > > "Look, it's your affair if you want to play with five people, but > don't > go calling it doubles." --John Cleese anticipates Usenet > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From glen at glenjarvis.com Sun Sep 6 21:48:45 2009 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:48:45 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] A reminder: Why to type slowly when going to python.org Message-ID: :) http://pythong.org/ From wescpy at gmail.com Sun Sep 6 21:53:47 2009 From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:53:47 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python In-Reply-To: <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> References: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> <20090906192105.GA23031@panix.com> <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <78b3a9580909061253x43944d89ldb54f8afa13eaa3a@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Rami Chowdhury wrote: > I have a fondness for that article, it's one of the things that persuaded me > to try learning Python :-) > > On Sep 6, 2009, at 12:21 , Aahz wrote: > >> On Sun, Sep 06, 2009, jim wrote: >>> >>> Here's a good overview Eric Raymond wrote of his experience in >>> learning Python >>> >>> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3882 >> >> Although that's good, it's also nearly a decade old.... ?;-) aahz is right. in fact, this is one of the most highly-read articles in LJ history. i don't have the number to back it up, but it has yet to leave the "most popular articles" section on the front page. i have never ever *not* seen it there. he is one of the biggest names in open source, and it's great to read such a candidly-written piece that highlights the strengths of Python. as an aside, here's the antithesis blog post: http://bitcheese.net/wiki/nopython comments on *that* one? (many already know that the 1.10000000000001 display issue is taken care of by Python 3.1.) -- wesley - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001 "Python Fundamentals", Prentice Hall, (c)2009 http://corepython.com "Python Web Development with Django", Addison Wesley, (c) 2009 http://withdjango.com wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com python training and technical consulting cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca http://cyberwebconsulting.com From ddf at iqdotdt.com Mon Sep 7 02:13:30 2009 From: ddf at iqdotdt.com (Delbert Franz) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 17:13:30 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580909061253x43944d89ldb54f8afa13eaa3a@mail.gmail.com> References: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> <78b3a9580909061253x43944d89ldb54f8afa13eaa3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200909061713.30672.ddf@iqdotdt.com> On Sunday 06 September 2009, wesley chun wrote: > On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Rami Chowdhury wrote: > > I have a fondness for that article, it's one of the things that persuaded me > > to try learning Python :-) > > > > On Sep 6, 2009, at 12:21 , Aahz wrote: > > > >> On Sun, Sep 06, 2009, jim wrote: > >>> > >>> Here's a good overview Eric Raymond wrote of his experience in > >>> learning Python > >>> > >>> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3882 > >> > >> Although that's good, it's also nearly a decade old.... ?;-) > > > aahz is right. in fact, this is one of the most highly-read articles > in LJ history. i don't have the number to back it up, but it has yet > to leave the "most popular articles" section on the front page. i have > never ever *not* seen it there. he is one of the biggest names in open > source, and it's great to read such a candidly-written piece that > highlights the strengths of Python. > > as an aside, here's the antithesis blog post: > http://bitcheese.net/wiki/nopython > > comments on *that* one? (many already know that the 1.10000000000001 > display issue is taken care of by Python 3.1.) > > -- wesley > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The complaint about 1.1 printing as 1.10...01, is just plain lame! When I ask for a variable to be printed without a format given, I want all of what the variable contains. The protester needs a simple lesson in floating point arithmetic. Of course too many people in software know practically nothing of floating point and expect the computer to behave like the "real number" system. Simple answer: it does not and never will:) Get a life and print with a format that cuts off the unavoidable floating-point noise! If it helps any, gfortran does the same thing and I suspect any other Fortran implementation worth anything would do the same thing. I suspect many developers were never taught much about floating point or if they were, they have forgotten about it. Being a "number cruncher" requires a nearly constant awareness of the various pitfalls of ignoring the differences between floating-point arithmetic and real-number system arithmetic. Delbert From aahz at pythoncraft.com Mon Sep 7 02:30:59 2009 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 17:30:59 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python In-Reply-To: <200909061713.30672.ddf@iqdotdt.com> References: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> <78b3a9580909061253x43944d89ldb54f8afa13eaa3a@mail.gmail.com> <200909061713.30672.ddf@iqdotdt.com> Message-ID: <20090907003059.GA6077@panix.com> On Sun, Sep 06, 2009, Delbert Franz wrote: > > The complaint about 1.1 printing as 1.10...01, is just plain lame! > When I ask for a variable to be printed without a format given, > I want all of what the variable contains. The protester needs a > simple lesson in floating point arithmetic. Of course too many > people in software know practically nothing of floating point and > expect the computer to behave like the "real number" system. Simple > answer: it does not and never will:) Get a life and print with a > format that cuts off the unavoidable floating-point noise! If it > helps any, gfortran does the same thing and I suspect any other > Fortran implementation worth anything would do the same thing. I > suspect many developers were never taught much about floating point > or if they were, they have forgotten about it. Being a "number > cruncher" requires a nearly constant awareness of the various pitfalls > of ignoring the differences between floating-point arithmetic and > real-number system arithmetic. Note that Python does have an answer: the decimal module Warning: just because you're doing decimal arithmetic does not mean you can avoid awareness of floating point issues -- you are still doing floating point with decimals, and all it saves you from is a few rounding issues. -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "Look, it's your affair if you want to play with five people, but don't go calling it doubles." --John Cleese anticipates Usenet From tungwaiyip at yahoo.com Mon Sep 7 05:51:38 2009 From: tungwaiyip at yahoo.com (Tung Wai Yip) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 20:51:38 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python In-Reply-To: <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> References: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> <20090906192105.GA23031@panix.com> <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> Message-ID: Eric Raymond is also the reason for me to try learning Python 6-7 years ago. Wai Yip > I have a fondness for that article, it's one of the things that > persuaded me to try learning Python :-) > > ------------- > Rami Chowdhury > "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor > 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD) > > > > > On Sep 6, 2009, at 12:21 , Aahz wrote: > >> On Sun, Sep 06, 2009, jim wrote: >>> >>> Here's a good overview Eric Raymond wrote of his experience in >>> learning Python >>> >>> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3882 >> >> Although that's good, it's also nearly a decade old.... ;-) >> --Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> >> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ >> >> "Look, it's your affair if you want to play with five people, but don't >> go calling it doubles." --John Cleese anticipates Usenet >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From glen at glenjarvis.com Mon Sep 7 20:49:51 2009 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 11:49:51 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Videos ready for processing In-Reply-To: References: <1251332895.9073.10.camel@jim-laptop> <312E7FE3-AF10-4EFF-913B-DAA06C5C6641@glenjarvis.com> Message-ID: >> ?but I am planning on recording.... > > Glad to hear that. Again, I'm happy to help with the post-processing. Everyone, my videographer student decided this was just too tedious and too much work (I hired it out for a reason). He never did invoice me (and I've chased him many times). So, he hasn't gotten paid yet either :( I think, frankly, he'd just rather see the backside of this project -- it's a lot of work that can be incredibly tedious. Regardless, Daryl has volunteered to render this past meeting. Thank you Daryl! There's also the OsCon meeting that needs rendered. I have place the past two months of video (in raw format) on the web. The OSCon media is about 14 Gigs and Alex's talk is 16 Gigs. These are not in a readable format so we can keep any quality that may be needed for editing (although the camera's not an expensive one). Because of the space of these files, I am hosting them from my home (free) instead. The link is: http://home.glenjarvis.com/ Please let me know if you have any questions and we're looking for help for the OSCon rendering. Warmest Regards, Glen P.S. Sorry it took so long, this has to play through, then letterbox to get to this stage and finally upload... and that's a pretty intensive process.... From jeff at drinktomi.com Mon Sep 7 20:50:14 2009 From: jeff at drinktomi.com (Jeff Younker) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 20:50:14 +0200 Subject: [Baypiggies] A reminder: Why to type slowly when going to python.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sep 6, 2009, at 9:48 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > http://pythong.org/ My friend Tom Arnold (no relation) set that up years ago he misspelled python.org one too many times. Every time I make that misspelling I curse his name. -jeff From jeff.enderwick at gmail.com Mon Sep 7 21:35:30 2009 From: jeff.enderwick at gmail.com (Jeff Enderwick) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:35:30 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] A reminder: Why to type slowly when going to python.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, that was scarring. On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Jeff Younker wrote: > On Sep 6, 2009, at 9:48 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > >> http://pythong.org/ > > My friend Tom Arnold (no relation) set that up years > ago he misspelled python.org one too many times. > > Every time I make that misspelling I curse his name. > > -jeff > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From cappy2112 at gmail.com Mon Sep 7 21:58:54 2009 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:58:54 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Is anyone here using Python 3 on a regular basis? Message-ID: <8249c4ac0909071258h683350b6if040467751829751@mail.gmail.com> I'm looking for a "committed reviewer" to write a short review for Programming in Python 3: A Complete Introduction to the Python Language (Paperback) http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Python-Complete-Introduction-Language/dp/0137129297 Anyone who is interested and committed to writing a short review for the publisher (and actually completing the review), please reply off-list. Thanks Tony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cappy2112 at gmail.com Mon Sep 7 22:02:08 2009 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 13:02:08 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] I'm looking for another committed reviewer to review "Python Essential Reference, 4th Edition" Message-ID: <8249c4ac0909071302k63c1b3b4w60e0e9f932f56132@mail.gmail.com> If you are interested in reviewing this book, Python Essential Reference, 4th Edition http://www.informit.com/store/product.aspx?isbn=0672329786 and are committed to actually completing the review.. Please reply off-list Thanks Tony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cappy2112 at gmail.com Mon Sep 7 22:10:47 2009 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 13:10:47 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: 50% OFF All PRINT BOOKS TODAY ONLY + Pop Quiz update, Hello Python New in MEAP! In-Reply-To: <1102694061629.1101335703814.83217.10.420005FF@scheduler> References: <1102694061629.1101335703814.83217.10.420005FF@scheduler> Message-ID: <8249c4ac0909071310t676bad26ga860ffebed23018a@mail.gmail.com> Happy Holiday Weekend Everyone, There is only one Python title below, but Manning has other Python-related titles as well. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Manning Publications Date: Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 9:07 PM Subject: 50% OFF All PRINT BOOKS TODAY ONLY + Pop Quiz update, Hello Python New in MEAP! To: cappy2112 at gmail.com Click here to view in your browser. [image: ManningWeblogo.medium] Today Only! Half Off All Print Editions! Offer applies to published print or Manning Early Access Program editions Use coupon code pop0907 on checkout at manning.com Tweet the Manning Pop Quiz! [image: twitter] Follow *manningbooks* on Twitter for Pop Quiz updates and special offers daily! *Hello Python* in MEAP + Pop Quiz update! 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Half Off All Print Editions* Offer applies to published print or Manning Early Access Program editions Use coupon code *pop0907* on checkout at manning.com *Tweet the Manning Pop* *Quiz!* [image: Bookmark and Share] Forward email [image: Safe Unsubscribe] This email was sent to cappy2112 at gmail.com by mkt at manning.com. Update Profile/Email Address| Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe? | Privacy Policy . Manning Publications Co. | Sound View Ct. #3B | Greenwich | CT | 06830 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spmcinerney at hotmail.com Tue Sep 8 19:51:51 2009 From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:51:51 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580909061253x43944d89ldb54f8afa13eaa3a@mail.gmail.com> References: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> <20090906192105.GA23031@panix.com> <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> <78b3a9580909061253x43944d89ldb54f8afa13eaa3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > From: wescpy at gmail.com > as an aside, here's the antithesis blog post: > http://bitcheese.net/wiki/nopython > > comments on *that* one? (many already know that the 1.10000000000001 > display issue is taken care of by Python 3.1.) Most of his comments are well out-of-date. Any guesses what version was he referencing 1.x? 1.4? 2.1? Python vs OCaml No static type system. It makes impossible to apply ?correct by construction? principle in python. Although, exceptions just don?t work (see above).No pattern matching. And even no switches ? actually even PHP has it. Some people recommend to use ?if ? else if? constructions instead?[??? re module was added way back in Python 1.5, and before that there was regex] Python performance sucks. Any single implentation of OCaml works much faster than any implentation of Python.[anyone got any contemporary numbers?] Python vs Ruby Python appears to be an object-oriented language, but OOP system is just a syntactic sugar for dictionaries, and you have to fall back to direct intervention to do serious business.[what on earth does he mean? must be talking about a very old version. No example given.] Regards, Stephen _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bpalmer at gmail.com Tue Sep 8 20:13:26 2009 From: bpalmer at gmail.com (Brian Palmer) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:13:26 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python In-Reply-To: References: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> <20090906192105.GA23031@panix.com> <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> <78b3a9580909061253x43944d89ldb54f8afa13eaa3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <847aaaf20909081113o1c8dc781ma73cc9b84c770146@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Stephen McInerney wrote: > > > From: wescpy at gmail.comNo pattern matching. And even no switches ? > actually even PHP has it. Some people recommend to use ?if ? else if? > constructions instead?[??? re module was added way back in Python 1.5, and > before that there was regex] > He's talking about a different form of pattern matching. A haskell-like pattern matching examle: should_stop: Car -> Light -> Boolean should_stop Ambulance _ = False should_stop _ Red = True should_stop _ _ = False should_stop would be a function that says whether a car should stop at a light. Ambulances never stop regardless of the light; all other cars stop at red; and otherwise, cars don't stop. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spmcinerney at hotmail.com Tue Sep 8 20:35:08 2009 From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:35:08 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python In-Reply-To: <847aaaf20909081113o1c8dc781ma73cc9b84c770146@mail.gmail.com> References: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> <20090906192105.GA23031@panix.com> <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> <78b3a9580909061253x43944d89ldb54f8afa13eaa3a@mail.gmail.com> <847aaaf20909081113o1c8dc781ma73cc9b84c770146@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Ok, so matching on the type of the object; either way, it's trivial to implement that in an OOP way by having a boolean predicate taking one optional arg (lightColor), and suitably overriding it. Makes me wonder again how ancient the version he's criticizing is. If he avoided using classes, then of course he wouldn't be able to do proper OOP. Does anyone think any of his criticisms are legitimate, on Python 2.6/3.0? Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:13:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python From: bpalmer at gmail.com To: spmcinerney at hotmail.com CC: baypiggies at python.org On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Stephen McInerney wrote: > From: wescpy at gmail.comNo pattern matching. And even no switches ? actually even PHP has it. Some people recommend to use ?if ? else if? constructions instead?[??? re module was added way back in Python 1.5, and before that there was regex] He's talking about a different form of pattern matching. A haskell-like pattern matching examle: should_stop: Car -> Light -> Boolean should_stop Ambulance _ = False should_stop _ Red = True should_stop _ _ = False should_stop would be a function that says whether a car should stop at a light. Ambulances never stop regardless of the light; all other cars stop at red; and otherwise, cars don't stop. _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From charles.merriam at gmail.com Tue Sep 8 20:39:13 2009 From: charles.merriam at gmail.com (Charles Merriam) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:39:13 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Assuming NoPython is good criticism. (Rant) Message-ID: > http://bitcheese.net/wiki/nopython Well formed criticism is a great thing! Let's avoid the dog pile of dismissing it. Python is a great language. Criticism drives it to be better. So: 1. the calculator problem: >>> 2.3 - 3.4 -1.1000000000000001 It's not just a display problem. It's a continuing precision problem. I can work around it using the decimal class, yet I fondly remember working on bare x86 processors and having the guard bits handle problems. The usual issue is that I don't care about the last couple bits of precision, and I expect them to be rounding errors, hence guard bits. I was last bit by this problem on Wednesday when a cdf (cummulative distribution function) blew some asserts: the probability capped at 1.0 + small_num instead of 1.0. While the printing hacks in 3.1 fix this, the documentation made me expect these are __repr__ hacks, not fixes. 2. The Indentation Issue Just get over it. Everyone does within a week and it is a trade-off for lower token counts. 3. self 'self' as a quasi-keyword is a problem, in that it creates verbose code such as: "self.a = self.fn(self.b) + self.c". Dropping the number of tokens by half would work by just making self a known keyword and using the bare period instead, e.g., ".a = .fn(.b) + .c". Purely a syntactic hack dropping a reasonable percentage of tokens. To me, the code reads much better. 4. 'dunders' naming for meta programming 'dunders' are a legitimate grip as well. Currently, dunders (double underscore name double underscore) merely signal that 'this function is likely to be involved in meta programming'. It, correctly, allows new programmers to safely ignore most dunder functions. Still, there isn't an easy method to figure out which dunders are in use, over-ridden, etc. At a base, there is repr, str, iter, init, new, cls, etc., etc. It lets the C++ unstructured knowledge world into Python. On top of that, there isn't a standard naming convention for other meta programming identifiers. A 'iterByFirstName()' call in some frameworks will dynamically create a sorted iterator based on FirstName being a legitimate database field. I was last bit by this earlier this week, guessing between __repr__ and __str__ for use in my debugger. 4. Naming Conventions and Lack Thereof: PEP-8 rambles for a bit before specifying that everything should be using_lowercase_underscores except for package names and class names. Except that most of the standard library breaks these rules. I would love to have a rule that throws a warning when you have a second identifier with the same translate(None, "_-'").lower(). Using "Mail()" and "mail" is just asking for errors. And why, why have a different naming convention for package names? 5. GIL The GIL does get in the way, for some people at some times. Exceedingly clear write-ups on the GIL, where it is a problem, and how to code around the problem, are necessary. It usually comes down to manually segmenting code. Typing "GIL" into the docs search box should yield a clear write-up. 6. Unicode I admit it: I've never understood the codecs module. The documentation just skips why and how to use it and instead goes into the required handlers. I have no idea how it deals with broken unicode. Python does not hide the borked-ness of The Unicode Standard from its programmers. So, In conclusion, there are issues. Python should make the life of a programmer easier and less buggy. Naming conventions, dunders, self, and even the default float implementation do get in the way. Does anyone wish to bet that these will still be criticisms in Python 6.0? Charles Merriam From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com Tue Sep 8 20:46:10 2009 From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 11:46:10 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python In-Reply-To: References: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> <20090906192105.GA23031@panix.com> <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> <78b3a9580909061253x43944d89ldb54f8afa13eaa3a@mail.gmail.com> <847aaaf20909081113o1c8dc781ma73cc9b84c770146@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > Does anyone think any of his criticisms are legitimate, on Python > 2.6/3.0? Well... > And even no switches > ? actually even PHP has it. If he's referring to the switch statement there, then he does have a point, Python doesn't have a switch statement ;-). (Not that I think it's particularly necessary, personally, as there's lots of other ways to do it (and, arguably, better ones)). On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 11:35:08 -0700, Stephen McInerney wrote: > > Ok, so matching on the type of the object; either way, it's trivial to > implement that in an > OOP way by having a boolean predicate taking one optional arg > (lightColor), > and suitably overriding it. Makes me wonder again how ancient the > version he's criticizing is. > If he avoided using classes, then of course he wouldn't be able to do > proper OOP. > > Does anyone think any of his criticisms are legitimate, on Python > 2.6/3.0? > > > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:13:26 -0700 > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python > From: bpalmer at gmail.com > To: spmcinerney at hotmail.com > CC: baypiggies at python.org > > On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Stephen McInerney > wrote: > > > > > > > >> From: wescpy at gmail.comNo pattern matching. And even no switches > ? actually even PHP has it. Some people recommend to use ?if ? else if? > constructions instead?[??? re module was added way back in Python 1.5, > and before that there was regex] > He's talking about a different form of pattern matching. A haskell-like > pattern matching examle: > > > should_stop: Car -> Light -> Boolean > should_stop Ambulance _ = False > should_stop _ Red = True > should_stop _ _ = False > > should_stop would be a function that says whether a car should stop at a > light. Ambulances never stop regardless of the light; all other cars > stop at red; and otherwise, cars don't stop. > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. > http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery -- Rami Chowdhury "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" -- Hanlon's Razor 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD) From alecf at flett.org Tue Sep 8 22:30:27 2009 From: alecf at flett.org (Alec Flett) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:30:27 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python In-Reply-To: References: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> <20090906192105.GA23031@panix.com> <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> <78b3a9580909061253x43944d89ldb54f8afa13eaa3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > > - Python performance sucks. Any single implentation of OCaml works much > faster than any implentation of Python. > > [anyone got any contemporary numbers?] > This is still true because OCaml (or any decent ML-oriented language implementation) is still on par with C for raw CPU-bound performance (in fact some OCaml code can be optimized much more than the transliterated C equivalent - i.e. you can often rely on the OCaml optimizer to speed up some abstractions/patterns more than you can rely on the C compiler optimizer for the same implementation pattern) It's going to be hard to beat that with a dynamic language, but the unladen swallow folks should be improving this situation by at least producing faster code for particular abstractions/patterns... But of course it's always a question of whether you're CPU bound or not! Alec -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spmcinerney at hotmail.com Tue Sep 8 22:40:22 2009 From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:40:22 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python In-Reply-To: References: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> <20090906192105.GA23031@panix.com> <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> <78b3a9580909061253x43944d89ldb54f8afa13eaa3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: A fairer comparison might be comparing OCaml to Psycho. Also, can Python do things that OCaml can't? Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:30:27 -0700 Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python From: alecf at flett.org To: spmcinerney at hotmail.com CC: wescpy at gmail.com; baypiggies at python.org Python performance sucks. Any single implentation of OCaml works much faster than any implentation of Python. [anyone got any contemporary numbers?] This is still true because OCaml (or any decent ML-oriented language implementation) is still on par with C for raw CPU-bound performance (in fact some OCaml code can be optimized much more than the transliterated C equivalent - i.e. you can often rely on the OCaml optimizer to speed up some abstractions/patterns more than you can rely on the C compiler optimizer for the same implementation pattern) It's going to be hard to beat that with a dynamic language, but the unladen swallow folks should be improving this situation by at least producing faster code for particular abstractions/patterns... But of course it's always a question of whether you're CPU bound or not! Alec _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From keith at dartworks.biz Wed Sep 9 00:12:00 2009 From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 15:12:00 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] A reminder: Why to type slowly when going to python.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090908151200.089688fa@dartworks.biz> === On Mon, 09/07, Jeff Enderwick wrote: === > Yes, that was scarring. === At first I thought it was Guido... -- Keith Dart -- -- -------------------- Keith Dart ======================= From rich.pixley at palm.com Wed Sep 9 01:14:37 2009 From: rich.pixley at palm.com (Rich Pixley) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:14:37 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Assuming NoPython is good criticism. (Rant) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AA6E55D.5040708@palm.com> Also, the modules system leaves a bit to be desired. The difference between foo.py:foo.foo, foo/index.py:foo.foo, foo/foo.py:foo.foo, etc, is subtle, undocumented, and there is no means of disambiguating. Similarly, the pathing issues involved in packaging have not been well solved, although they have in many other dynamic languages. The net effect is that people tend to write single huge files simply because of the packaging issues. Personally, I think it's sad that the packaging and community library attempts, (like pypi & EasyInstall[sic]), have been language specific rather than leveraging the packaging systems native to the OS, (like rpm, debian, etc). While this makes it easier to interactively download one package on one uncontrolled machine, it makes it more difficult to do things like automated loads across multiple servers, multiple server instances for things like clean machine installs, qa, etc. And... I miss unexec. --rich ps, psyco only runs on 32-bit x86's. It's no use on arm, powerpc, or amd64. From keith at dartworks.biz Wed Sep 9 02:08:20 2009 From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 17:08:20 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Assuming NoPython is good criticism. (Rant) In-Reply-To: <4AA6E55D.5040708@palm.com> References: <4AA6E55D.5040708@palm.com> Message-ID: <20090908170820.233e9fdc@dartworks.biz> === On Tue, 09/08, Rich Pixley wrote: === > Personally, I think it's sad that the packaging and community library > attempts, (like pypi & EasyInstall[sic]), have been language specific > rather than leveraging the packaging systems native to the OS, (like > rpm, debian, etc). While this makes it easier to interactively > download one package on one uncontrolled machine, it makes it more > difficult to do things like automated loads across multiple servers, > multiple server instances for things like clean machine installs, qa, > etc. === FYI, the distutils/setuptools can build RPMs from the Python package (as defined by setup.py). It can also build Windows installer package on Windows, from the same code base and metadata. To make publicly available RPMs, .exe, .msi, etc., that are platform/distribution specific, would require a large "build farm" consisting of all the target platforms. I don't think that would be practical for the Python community. Since Python is very cross-platform it actually makes sense to have its own packaging system that you can build target packages from. -- Keith Dart -- -- -------------------- Keith Dart ======================= From rich.pixley at palm.com Wed Sep 9 02:38:54 2009 From: rich.pixley at palm.com (Rich Pixley) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 17:38:54 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Assuming NoPython is good criticism. (Rant) In-Reply-To: <20090908170820.233e9fdc@dartworks.biz> References: <4AA6E55D.5040708@palm.com> <20090908170820.233e9fdc@dartworks.biz> Message-ID: <4AA6F91E.5080903@palm.com> Keith Dart wrote: > === On Tue, 09/08, Rich Pixley wrote: === > >> Personally, I think it's sad that the packaging and community library >> attempts, (like pypi & EasyInstall[sic]), have been language specific >> rather than leveraging the packaging systems native to the OS, (like >> rpm, debian, etc). While this makes it easier to interactively >> download one package on one uncontrolled machine, it makes it more >> difficult to do things like automated loads across multiple servers, >> multiple server instances for things like clean machine installs, qa, >> etc. >> > === > > FYI, the distutils/setuptools can build RPMs from the Python package > (as defined by setup.py). It can also build Windows installer package > on Windows, from the same code base and metadata. > I've read that in several places but I haven't seen it work. (I'm looking for debian's these days anyway). > To make publicly available RPMs, .exe, .msi, etc., that are > platform/distribution specific, would require a large "build farm" > consisting of all the target platforms. I don't think that would be > practical for the Python community. > This is one of the ways that things work very well in debian. If debian can do it, then so can the python community. Actually, you probably don't need a server farm at all since the point here is that they can all be built in a cross configuration, yes? So you just need a machine and that machine can generate any format available. > Since Python is very cross-platform it actually makes sense to have its > own packaging system that you can build target packages from. I understand the argument. My complaint is about the isolationism. Pypi packages should be available online, on demand, in any modern format. It should be trivial to repackage them on the fly, which would also make them installable using the native method for your system, (so debian for debian, rpm for redhat, etc.) --rich -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dalke at dalkescientific.com Wed Sep 9 10:38:28 2009 From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 10:38:28 +0200 Subject: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python In-Reply-To: References: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> <20090906192105.GA23031@panix.com> <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> <78b3a9580909061253x43944d89ldb54f8afa13eaa3a@mail.gmail.com> <847aaaf20909081113o1c8dc781ma73cc9b84c770146@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sep 8, 2009, at 8:35 PM, Stephen McInerney wrote: > Ok, so matching on the type of the object That is not correct. Here's an example of OCaml matching on a value (not a type), to compute factorial. let rec fact = function | 0 -> 1 | n -> n * fact(n-1);; > ; either way, it's trivial to implement that in an > OOP way by having a boolean predicate taking one optional arg > (lightColor), > and suitably overriding it. I think you are misunderstanding what they can do. Pattern matching is more like multiple dispatch/multimethods. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_dispatch The pattern match applies across all parameters, not just a single argument. > Makes me wonder again how ancient the version he's criticizing is. > If he avoided using classes, then of course he wouldn't be able to > do proper OOP. There is more to the world than OOP. > Does anyone think any of his criticisms are legitimate, on Python > 2.6/3.0? The others weren't that legitimate (excepting xrange) even in 2.0. But I'm a Python developer in a Python user group mailing list, so should be considered biased. :) Andrew dalke at dalkescientific.com From dpattison at agraquest.com Wed Sep 9 20:13:29 2009 From: dpattison at agraquest.com (David Pattison) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:13:29 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Job in Davis, CA Message-ID: <4676DF8318F32F4AB7E98BCD9BC9062801FA486E@agq-ex01.agraquest.int> Hello, AgraQuest is a biopesticide company delivering innovative biological and low-chemical crop protection solutions. As part of the clean-tech revolution, the company is committed to providing effective alternatives to synthetic pesticides. AgraQuest is well funded and privately held company backed by several well known venture capital groups and private equity firms, such as Texas Pacific Group. The company has also made significant collaborative deals with well known companies providing crop protection solutions such as BASF. AgraQuest currently reports sales of existing products in the tens of millions of dollars. Together with capital injection and revenue from sales, AgraQuest is now cash flow positive. The company is poised for an IPO in the near future. For more information about the company please see http://agraquest.com. General Description: AgraQuest is looking for a Python developer who has experience working with frameworks, preferably TurboGears. You will be responsible for continuing the development, deployment and maintenance of custom data management systems and their web interfaces. Using an open source relational database you will create, enhance, and maintain databases that will warehouse millions of dollars worth of agricultural field trial and various forms of laboratory data. You will interact with non-Informatics scientists to understand their needs in order to efficiently develop Informatics solutions. Excellent communication and great interpersonal skills would be highly desirable. An innate or acquired desire to promote safer healthier environment would also be a definite plus. Essential duties and responsibilities: * Create automatic loaders to import data from Excel and text files to the database * Develop tools to generate user-defined reports in Excel and Word by extracting data out of the relational database * Write scripts to properly maintain the database management system, e.g. nightly backups, regression testing, etc. * Interact with users to create web-based interface for efficient retrieval and display of data * Meticulously document functional and technical specs * Utilize open source tools whenever possible * Help maintain hardware used for data entry, data capture and database hosting * Must develop rapid prototype of necessary software tools for various scientific projects * Must be able to work independently and collaboratively with project leads and non-technical personnel Education: * Bachelor's or master's degree in computer science or other closely related technical degree, preferably with minor or a few classes in biology Required and desired qualifications: * 1+ years of industry experience developing data management software in Linux/UNIX environment * Fluent in Python, TurboGear, JavaScript, and CSS * Experience with authentication protocols such as LDAP and SSL * Proficient with advanced SQL queries to optimize searches * Experience in managing open source relational database, e.g. PostgreSQL or MySQL, such as installation, backing up and restoration of databases * Source code management system experiences in SVN * Experiences in the following would be a plus: VBA, CGI, Samba, PHP, Perl, Java, Ajax, Trac, Django, C, Oracle, CherryPy, Plone, PL/pgSQL, PL/SQL * Prefer some knowledge of statistics and of molecular biology * Desired to work in a fasted paced working environment and ability to adapt to changing requirements To apply, please send a current version of your resume to jobs at agraquest.com and reference "Informatics Research Associate" in the subject line. AgraQuest requires successful completion of a pre-employment drug test. AgraQuest, Inc. is an EOE employer. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel.wilkerson at gmail.com Wed Sep 9 21:30:06 2009 From: daniel.wilkerson at gmail.com (Daniel Wilkerson) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 12:30:06 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python vs. OCaml Message-ID: <48f102b60909091230k42f1fbdbq8a94ce0987f0c21c@mail.gmail.com> OCaml is not a "real" programming language in the sense that it is not designed to support professional software engineering idioms. As a guy I know said who has a PhD in programming languages from Berkeley "OCaml is what you get when a bunch of French people need to write papers and so they hack a bunch of features into ML". OCaml is not OO. There is more to the world than OO as a previous poster mentioned, however OO is an essential idiom for programming in the large. An example of how OCaml falls down is that if you have a foo field of an Object/Struct/Record/Whatever-they-call-it, then no other Object can have a foo field. This allows for type inference. It also does not allow for polymorphism. Daniel From annaraven at gmail.com Wed Sep 9 22:18:55 2009 From: annaraven at gmail.com (Anna Ravenscroft) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 13:18:55 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Job in Davis, CA In-Reply-To: <4676DF8318F32F4AB7E98BCD9BC9062801FA486E@agq-ex01.agraquest.int> References: <4676DF8318F32F4AB7E98BCD9BC9062801FA486E@agq-ex01.agraquest.int> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:13 AM, David Pattison wrote: > Hello, > > > > AgraQuest is a biopesticide company I read this as BioPopsicle company. Giggle. -- cordially, Anna -- I am the mother of all things and all things shall wear a sweater! From echerlin at gmail.com Wed Sep 9 23:57:27 2009 From: echerlin at gmail.com (Edward Cherlin) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 14:57:27 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Numeric precision (was Re: Eric Raymond likes Python) Message-ID: APL has a default Print Precision for just this reason, and a way for the user to set the number of digits to print throughout a workspace. Explicit numeric formatting was also built in. We tend to get more people who have at least heard of Numerical Analysis in the APL community. Ken Iverson was of the opinion that the rudiments of NA (significant digits, anyway) should be taught in grade school, and did so himself in an IBM experiment in the 1960s. On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Delbert Franz wrote: > The complaint about 1.1 printing as 1.10...01, is just plain lame! > When I ask for a variable to be printed without a format given, > I want all of what the variable contains. ?The protester needs a > simple lesson in floating point arithmetic. ?Of course too many > people in software know practically nothing of floating point and > expect the computer to behave like the "real number" system. > Simple answer: it does not and never will:) ?Get a life and > print with a format that cuts off the unavoidable floating-point > noise! ?If it helps any, gfortran does the same thing and I suspect > any other Fortran implementation worth anything would do the same thing. > I suspect many developers were never taught much about floating point or if they > were, they have forgotten about it. Far too many classes on and books about programming languages only think to teach the syntax, not the nature of data objects or anything else beyond the most superficial semantics. I blame the schools for teaching children that math is too hard for them, instead of teaching how to learn it effectively in a way that suits each individual child's cognitive style. Sure, advanced math is hard. Like anything important, it is as hard as possible, but no harder. Playing baseball, or the piano, or World of Warcraft, for example. We don't say, "I won't learn as much as I can" of anything we like, just because the pros are so much better at it. Unless peer pressure or institutional pressure says we shouldn't. > Being a "number cruncher" requires > a nearly constant awareness of the various pitfalls of ignoring the > differences between floating-point arithmetic and real-number > system arithmetic. Yup. Subtraction is one of the worst. What's 1.000001 - 1.000000 to four significant figures? 0.0000. (The 0 before the decimal point doesn't count.) What does the computer give you? 1.000e-6, unless you know how to tell it in much greater detail what you really want, which involves the intermediate stage, 1.000-1.000. > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Delbert > > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -- Edward Mokurai (??/???????????????/????????????? ?) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/ From echerlin at gmail.com Thu Sep 10 00:00:25 2009 From: echerlin at gmail.com (Edward Cherlin) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 15:00:25 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python In-Reply-To: References: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> <20090906192105.GA23031@panix.com> <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> <78b3a9580909061253x43944d89ldb54f8afa13eaa3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Stephen McInerney wrote: > A fairer comparison might be comparing OCaml to Psycho. > > Also, can Python do things that OCaml can't? LOL. Have you ever heard of "Turing-completeness", or "Church's Thesis"? -- Edward Mokurai (??/???????????????/????????????? ?) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/ From ddf at iqdotdt.com Thu Sep 10 04:08:00 2009 From: ddf at iqdotdt.com (Delbert Franz) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 19:08:00 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Numeric precision (was Re: Eric Raymond likes Python) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200909091908.00536.ddf@iqdotdt.com> On Wednesday 09 September 2009, Edward Cherlin wrote: > APL has a default Print Precision for just this reason, and a way for > the user to set the number of digits to print throughout a workspace. > Explicit numeric formatting was also built in. We tend to get more > people who have at least heard of Numerical Analysis in the APL > community. Ken Iverson was of the opinion that the rudiments of NA > (significant digits, anyway) should be taught in grade school, and did > so himself in an IBM experiment in the 1960s. > I think this is a good idea as well. Plus students should be taught that addition and subtraction are inverses, so are multiplication and division, and that multiplication is just repeated addition and division is a repeated subtraction. I don't recall ever hearing about the last two until I got well beyond grade school:) However, my grade school is more than 50 years ago, so I may have forgotten what I was taught then:) > On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Delbert Franz wrote: > > The complaint about 1.1 printing as 1.10...01, is just plain lame! > > When I ask for a variable to be printed without a format given, > > I want all of what the variable contains. ?The protester needs a > > simple lesson in floating point arithmetic. ?Of course too many > > people in software know practically nothing of floating point and > > expect the computer to behave like the "real number" system. > > Simple answer: it does not and never will:) ?Get a life and > > print with a format that cuts off the unavoidable floating-point > > noise! ?If it helps any, gfortran does the same thing and I suspect > > any other Fortran implementation worth anything would do the same thing. > > I suspect many developers were never taught much about floating point or if they > > were, they have forgotten about it. > > Far too many classes on and books about programming languages only > think to teach the syntax, not the nature of data objects or anything > else beyond the most superficial semantics. I blame the schools for > teaching children that math is too hard for them, instead of teaching > how to learn it effectively in a way that suits each individual > child's cognitive style. > > Sure, advanced math is hard. Like anything important, it is as hard as > possible, but no harder. Playing baseball, or the piano, or World of > Warcraft, for example. We don't say, "I won't learn as much as I can" > of anything we like, just because the pros are so much better at it. > Unless peer pressure or institutional pressure says we shouldn't. > I suspect I have learned more math after I finished school (I was a "slow learner" and took 22 years!) than I did in school. Of course I have had almost 40 years of after school to do that:) It is unfortunate that there is not more emphasis on the need for continuing to learn after formal education is finished. In fact, I argue one of the primary purposes for "formal education" is learning how to learn, that is, getting broad basic knowledge plus a collection of skills to use when there is no one else around to help you solve a problem. > > Being a "number cruncher" requires > > a nearly constant awareness of the various pitfalls of ignoring the > > differences between floating-point arithmetic and real-number > > system arithmetic. > > Yup. Subtraction is one of the worst. What's 1.000001 - 1.000000 to > four significant figures? 0.0000. (The 0 before the decimal point > doesn't count.) What does the computer give you? 1.000e-6, unless you > know how to tell it in much greater detail what you really want, which > involves the intermediate stage, 1.000-1.000. > You are quite right! A good intro to some of the issues for anyone with high school algebra would be: "Solving a Quadratic Equation on a Computer", by George E. Forsythe, appearing in: "The Mathematical Sciences: A Collection of Essays", National Academy of Sciences, National Research Council, 1969, pp. 138-152. What looks so simple with "exact arithmetic" is a much more complex task when using the arithmetic on a computer! Finally, I am consistently dismayed by the lack of mathematical ability of even graduates with degrees in engineering. Mathematical illiteracy is a national "scandal". Perhaps math education is too important to leave to the mathematicians:) Delbert > > _______________________________________________ > > Baypiggies mailing list > > Baypiggies at python.org > > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > > > > > -- > Edward Mokurai (??/???????????????/????????????? ?) Cherlin > Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. > http://earthtreasury.org/ > > From jeff.enderwick at gmail.com Thu Sep 10 09:08:23 2009 From: jeff.enderwick at gmail.com (Jeff Enderwick) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 00:08:23 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] processing multiple lists in step Message-ID: I like using list-comps in Python. Is there a nice way to process more than one list concurrently in this style? By this, I mean that the 1st iteration would act on L1[0] and L2[0], the 2nd iteration would act on L1[1] and L2[1], and so on. Sorry if the soln is obvious - I am tired :-) From charles.merriam at gmail.com Thu Sep 10 09:20:50 2009 From: charles.merriam at gmail.com (Charles Merriam) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 00:20:50 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] processing multiple lists in step In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Cool. For in memory objects, one might use zip(). Anyone care to have a Pythonic lunch at the Dojo on Monday? On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:08 AM, Jeff Enderwick wrote: > I like using list-comps in Python. Is there a nice way to process more > than one list concurrently in this style? By this, I mean that the 1st > iteration would act on L1[0] and L2[0], the 2nd iteration would act on > L1[1] and L2[1], and so on. Sorry if the soln is obvious - I am tired > :-) > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From daryl.spitzer at gmail.com Thu Sep 10 16:45:08 2009 From: daryl.spitzer at gmail.com (Daryl Spitzer) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 07:45:08 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] processing multiple lists in step In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: See the zip() built-in function: http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#zip. I note the documentation says it returns a list of tuples, which is (I assume) why Charles writes "for in memory objects". For an iterator, see itertools.izip() or itertools.izip_longest(): http://docs.python.org/library/itertools.html#itertools.izip. -- Daryl On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:20 AM, Charles Merriam wrote: > Cool. ? For in memory objects, one might use zip(). > > Anyone care to have a Pythonic lunch at the Dojo on Monday? > > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:08 AM, Jeff Enderwick > wrote: >> I like using list-comps in Python. Is there a nice way to process more >> than one list concurrently in this style? By this, I mean that the 1st >> iteration would act on L1[0] and L2[0], the 2nd iteration would act on >> L1[1] and L2[1], and so on. Sorry if the soln is obvious - I am tired >> :-) >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From adam at hupp.org Thu Sep 10 18:12:54 2009 From: adam at hupp.org (Adam Hupp) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:12:54 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python vs. OCaml In-Reply-To: <48f102b60909091230k42f1fbdbq8a94ce0987f0c21c@mail.gmail.com> References: <48f102b60909091230k42f1fbdbq8a94ce0987f0c21c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <766a29bd0909100912neebdbc3jb14e2746b3384a6d@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Daniel Wilkerson wrote: > OCaml is not OO. ?There is more to the world than OO as a previous > poster mentioned, however OO is an essential idiom for programming in > the large. ?An example of how OCaml falls down is that if you have a > foo field of an Object/Struct/Record/Whatever-they-call-it, then no > other Object can have a foo field. ?This allows for type inference. > It also does not allow for polymorphism. This isn't correct. Records and objects are two separate concepts in O'Caml. A record has the limitation you mention (per-file) but objects do not. -- Adam Hupp | http://hupp.org/adam/ From rich.pixley at palm.com Thu Sep 10 18:19:50 2009 From: rich.pixley at palm.com (Rich Pixley) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:19:50 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] processing multiple lists in step In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AA92726.8080003@palm.com> Jeff Enderwick wrote: > I like using list-comps in Python. Is there a nice way to process more > than one list concurrently in this style? By this, I mean that the 1st > iteration would act on L1[0] and L2[0], the 2nd iteration would act on > L1[1] and L2[1], and so on. Sorry if the soln is obvious - I am tired munge(L1[i], L2[i]) for i in range(len(L1)) --rich From bsergean at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 04:21:53 2009 From: bsergean at gmail.com (Benjamin Sergeant) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:21:53 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Numeric precision (was Re: Eric Raymond likes Python) In-Reply-To: <200909091908.00536.ddf@iqdotdt.com> References: <200909091908.00536.ddf@iqdotdt.com> Message-ID: <1621f9fa0909101921r689a30edw431a3033aae1f9a5@mail.gmail.com> For those who'd like to play with math and programming at the same time I highly recommend Project Euler (or doing 3D / 2D CG). - Benjamin On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Delbert Franz wrote: > On Wednesday 09 September 2009, Edward Cherlin wrote: >> APL has a default Print Precision for just this reason, and a way for >> the user to set the number of digits to print throughout a workspace. >> Explicit numeric formatting was also built in. We tend to get more >> people who have at least heard of Numerical Analysis in the APL >> community. Ken Iverson was of the opinion that the rudiments of NA >> (significant digits, anyway) should be taught in grade school, and did >> so himself in an IBM experiment in the 1960s. >> > I think this is a good idea as well. ?Plus students should be taught > that addition and subtraction are inverses, so are multiplication and > division, and that multiplication is just repeated addition and division > is a repeated subtraction. ?I don't recall ever hearing about the last > two until I got well beyond grade school:) ?However, my grade school > is more than 50 years ago, so I may have forgotten what I was taught > then:) > >> On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Delbert Franz wrote: >> > The complaint about 1.1 printing as 1.10...01, is just plain lame! >> > When I ask for a variable to be printed without a format given, >> > I want all of what the variable contains. ?The protester needs a >> > simple lesson in floating point arithmetic. ?Of course too many >> > people in software know practically nothing of floating point and >> > expect the computer to behave like the "real number" system. >> > Simple answer: it does not and never will:) ?Get a life and >> > print with a format that cuts off the unavoidable floating-point >> > noise! ?If it helps any, gfortran does the same thing and I suspect >> > any other Fortran implementation worth anything would do the same thing. >> > I suspect many developers were never taught much about floating point or if they >> > were, they have forgotten about it. >> >> Far too many classes on and books about programming languages only >> think to teach the syntax, not the nature of data objects or anything >> else beyond the most superficial semantics. I blame the schools for >> teaching children that math is too hard for them, instead of teaching >> how to learn it effectively in a way that suits each individual >> child's cognitive style. >> >> Sure, advanced math is hard. Like anything important, it is as hard as >> possible, but no harder. Playing baseball, or the piano, or World of >> Warcraft, for example. We don't say, "I won't learn as much as I can" >> of anything we like, just because the pros are so much better at it. >> Unless peer pressure or institutional pressure says we shouldn't. >> > I suspect I have learned more math after I finished school (I was a "slow learner" > and took 22 years!) than I did in school. ?Of course I have had almost 40 years > of after school to do that:) ?It is unfortunate that there is not more emphasis > on the need for continuing to learn after formal education is finished. ?In fact, > I argue one of the primary purposes for "formal education" is learning how to > learn, that is, getting broad basic knowledge plus a collection of skills > to use when there is no one else around to help you solve a problem. > >> > Being a "number cruncher" requires >> > a nearly constant awareness of the various pitfalls of ignoring the >> > differences between floating-point arithmetic and real-number >> > system arithmetic. >> >> Yup. Subtraction is one of the worst. What's 1.000001 - 1.000000 to >> four significant figures? 0.0000. (The 0 before the decimal point >> doesn't count.) What does the computer give you? 1.000e-6, unless you >> know how to tell it in much greater detail what you really want, which >> involves the intermediate stage, 1.000-1.000. >> > > You are quite right! ?A good intro to some of the issues for anyone with > high school algebra would be: ?"Solving a Quadratic Equation on a > Computer", by George E. Forsythe, appearing in: "The Mathematical Sciences: > A Collection of Essays", National Academy of Sciences, National > Research Council, 1969, pp. 138-152. ?What looks so simple with > "exact arithmetic" is a much more complex task when using the arithmetic > on a computer! > > Finally, I am consistently dismayed by the lack of mathematical ability of > even graduates with degrees in engineering. ?Mathematical illiteracy is > a national "scandal". ?Perhaps math education is too important to leave > to the mathematicians:) > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Delbert > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Baypiggies mailing list >> > Baypiggies at python.org >> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Edward Mokurai (??/???????????????/????????????? ?) Cherlin >> Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. >> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. >> http://earthtreasury.org/ >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From ferringb at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 05:16:04 2009 From: ferringb at gmail.com (Brian Harring) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:16:04 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] processing multiple lists in step In-Reply-To: <4AA92726.8080003@palm.com> References: <4AA92726.8080003@palm.com> Message-ID: <20090911031604.GB7165@hrair.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 09:19:50AM -0700, Rich Pixley wrote: > Jeff Enderwick wrote: > > I like using list-comps in Python. Is there a nice way to process more > > than one list concurrently in this style? By this, I mean that the 1st > > iteration would act on L1[0] and L2[0], the 2nd iteration would act on > > L1[1] and L2[1], and so on. Sorry if the soln is obvious - I am tired > munge(L1[i], L2[i]) for i in range(len(L1)) Also you can use zip, or itertools.izip... [munge(x,y) for x,y in zip(l1,l2)] While you're at it, could just as easily do imap or a generator expression ;) ~harring From wescpy at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 05:51:44 2009 From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:51:44 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] processing multiple lists in step In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <78b3a9580909102051p4c727af8k493a49cc85a0e9fb@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:08 AM, Jeff Enderwick wrote: > I like using list-comps in Python. Is there a nice way to process more > than one list concurrently in this style? By this, I mean that the 1st > iteration would act on L1[0] and L2[0], the 2nd iteration would act on > L1[1] and L2[1], and so on. Sorry if the soln is obvious - I am tired > :-) another recommendation is that if you're creating such data structures where the only intent is to iterate over them and throw them away, i'd like to try and convince you to use generator expressions instead of list comprehensions. the syntax is nearly identical... just swap your square brackets for parentheses. listcomps create the entire list in memory before you get it back vs. a genexp which returns only a generator object (it's really just an iterator). the memory savings will eventually have a(n adverse) performance impact vs. using genexps or any iterator-like object. hope this helps! -- wesley - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001 "Python Fundamentals", Prentice Hall, (c)2009 http://corepython.com wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com python training and technical consulting cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca http://cyberwebconsulting.com From spmcinerney at hotmail.com Mon Sep 14 00:45:07 2009 From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 15:45:07 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python In-Reply-To: References: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> <20090906192105.GA23031@panix.com> <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> <78b3a9580909061253x43944d89ldb54f8afa13eaa3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > > A fairer comparison might be comparing OCaml to Psycho. > > > > Also, can Python do things that OCaml can't? > > LOL. Have you ever heard of "Turing-completeness", or "Church's Thesis"? Edward, Yeah I know all about the theoretical stuff; I was looking for a commercial answer, aka "does anyone actually seriously use OCAML and for what?". As far as I know noone much uses OCAML much, so a historical rant about Python 1.x from an OCAML enthusiast doesn't carry much weight. The only criticisms he made about OO back in Python 1.x, I was slightly curious whether there was more or less to OCAML than meets the eye. (By analogy, I looked into XSLT 18mths ago and that was overstyled nonsense, as in, I could write clean functionally-equivalent Python with >10x fewer lines and much more clarity.) Regards, Stephen _________________________________________________________________ Bing brings you health info from trusted sources. http://www.bing.com/search?q=pet+allergy&form=MHEINA&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MHEINA_Health_Health_PetAllergy_1x1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From damonmc at gmail.com Mon Sep 14 10:36:58 2009 From: damonmc at gmail.com (Damon McCormick) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 01:36:58 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python In-Reply-To: References: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> <20090906192105.GA23031@panix.com> <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> <78b3a9580909061253x43944d89ldb54f8afa13eaa3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3cce76f60909140136v78b97dffkde218243371d3dc1@mail.gmail.com> I only know of a few impressive industrial uses of OCaml. However, those are in exactly the sort of places where OCaml really shines, e.g. theorem proving, program verification, and program transformation. OCaml was used to do the C code generation for FFTW, an outstanding piece of engineering which is pretty much the only cross-platform, high-performance Fast Fourier Transform library that matters (it's essentially as fast as the fastest hand-tuned libraries on all platforms). AirBus used Ocaml for a program that verified the fly-by-wire software used in the A340 and A380--it proved the absence of runtime errors like memory violations and overflows. Microsoft used OCaml to implement a utility that developers used to detect rule violations in Windows kernel-mode drivers. IBM used OCaml to convert between DB2 and Oracle in the IBM Migration Toolkit. You could write this stuff in Python, but the idea of doing it in OCaml is that with some cleverness, you can leverage the state-of-the-art program transformation and theorem-proving facilities that exist in the language interpreter to do the heavy lifting, rather than implementing those algorithms yourself. But for the 100 - epsilon percent of code that is not a theorem proving / program manipulation problem, I would (and do) choose Python, Java, or C++ over OCaml. -Damon On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Stephen McInerney wrote: > > > > A fairer comparison might be comparing OCaml to Psycho. > > > > > > Also, can Python do things that OCaml can't? > > > > LOL. Have you ever heard of "Turing-completeness", or "Church's Thesis"? > > Edward, > > Yeah I know all about the theoretical stuff; > I was looking for a commercial answer, aka "does anyone actually seriously > use OCAML and for what?". > As far as I know noone much uses OCAML much, so a historical rant about > Python 1.x from > an OCAML enthusiast doesn't carry much weight. > The only criticisms he made about OO back in Python 1.x, I was slightly > curious whether there was > more or less to OCAML than meets the eye. > > (By analogy, I looked into XSLT 18mths ago and that was overstyled > nonsense, as in, > I could write clean functionally-equivalent Python with >10x fewer lines > and much more clarity.) > > Regards, > Stephen > > ------------------------------ > Bing brings you health info from trusted sources. Try it now! > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rich.pixley at palm.com Mon Sep 14 17:53:23 2009 From: rich.pixley at palm.com (Rich Pixley) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 08:53:23 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] functional languages (was: Eric Raymond likes Python) In-Reply-To: <3cce76f60909140136v78b97dffkde218243371d3dc1@mail.gmail.com> References: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> <20090906192105.GA23031@panix.com> <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> <78b3a9580909061253x43944d89ldb54f8afa13eaa3a@mail.gmail.com> <3cce76f60909140136v78b97dffkde218243371d3dc1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AAE66F3.40604@palm.com> Has anyone here spent any time with Mercury? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_%28programming_language%29) And if so, how was it for you? I've always thought it looked to have some commercial potential. It's more prolog than ML, but it's in the family of "functional languages". But I haven't really had much opportunity to do anything with it. --rich From baypiggies at marcusphillips.com Mon Sep 14 21:18:09 2009 From: baypiggies at marcusphillips.com (Marcus Phillips) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:18:09 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Meetup in SF Message-ID: BayPIGgies, Just wanted to inform you of the meetup this week in SF. Should be a good one, so please drop by if you're up this way. Details below, and at meetup.com/sfpython. Regards, Marcus ---- This month, we have Jim Baker from Boulder, CO giving us a talk on python performance optimization. Speaker Bio: Jim Baker has 15 years of professional software development experience, focusing on business intelligence, enterprise system management, and high-performance web applications. He is a member at the Python Software Foundation, a committer on Jython, and a frequent speaker at pyCon on python performance / iterators. He holds a Bachelor of Computer Science from Harvard University and a Masters of Computer Science from Brown University (and an all-but-dissertation PhD candidate). Abstract: You have great unit tests. Your Python code is correct, or at least as much as you can tell with your testing. Now you may want to optimize the performance of some of that code, so as to improve the user experience, reduce costs, or enhance scalability. In this talk, we will look at how to apply some proven techniques for optimizing Python performance. First we will discuss some approaches to profiling, which is what you should do first. Then we will examine a variety of optimization strategies, from small optimizations, to using better algorithms and more appropriate data structures, to the impact of using a better fitting (or perhaps more well-written) library, and more. And we will look at what exactly you may want to optimize, whether that is response time, throughput, or various other related metrics, and how to appropriately balance. Lastly, as it comes up, we will also discuss some of the differences between the various implementations, like CPython and Jython. Agenda- 6:30p - 7:00p Pizza and Networking 7:00p - 8:30p Main talk / Q&A Please RSVP so we know how much food to order ;-) About Slide's office: 2.5 blocks from Cal Train Easy parking along 2nd street and Brannan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spmcinerney at hotmail.com Mon Sep 14 21:36:16 2009 From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:36:16 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Meetup in SF In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Marcus - what day and date please? You might like to add to the subject line. Thanks, Stephen From: baypiggies at marcusphillips.com Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:18:09 -0700 To: baypiggies at python.org Subject: [Baypiggies] Meetup in SF BayPIGgies, Just wanted to inform you of the meetup this week in SF. Should be a good one, so please drop by if you're up this way. Details below, and at meetup.com/sfpython. Regards, Marcus ---- This month, we have Jim Baker from Boulder, CO giving us a talk on python performance optimization. Speaker Bio: Jim Baker has 15 years of professional software development experience, focusing on business intelligence, enterprise system management, and high-performance web applications. He is a member at the Python Software Foundation, a committer on Jython, and a frequent speaker at pyCon on python performance / iterators. He holds a Bachelor of Computer Science from Harvard University and a Masters of Computer Science from Brown University (and an all-but-dissertation PhD candidate). Abstract: You have great unit tests. Your Python code is correct, or at least as much as you can tell with your testing. Now you may want to optimize the performance of some of that code, so as to improve the user experience, reduce costs, or enhance scalability. In this talk, we will look at how to apply some proven techniques for optimizing Python performance. First we will discuss some approaches to profiling, which is what you should do first. Then we will examine a variety of optimization strategies, from small optimizations, to using better algorithms and more appropriate data structures, to the impact of using a better fitting (or perhaps more well-written) library, and more. And we will look at what exactly you may want to optimize, whether that is response time, throughput, or various other related metrics, and how to appropriately balance. Lastly, as it comes up, we will also discuss some of the differences between the various implementations, like CPython and Jython. Agenda- 6:30p - 7:00p Pizza and Networking 7:00p - 8:30p Main talk / Q&A Please RSVP so we know how much food to order ;-) About Slide's office: 2.5 blocks from Cal Train Easy parking along 2nd street and Brannan _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baypiggies at marcusphillips.com Mon Sep 14 21:48:06 2009 From: baypiggies at marcusphillips.com (Marcus Phillips) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:48:06 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Meetup in SF - This Thu at 6:30 Message-ID: Woops! It's this Thursday the 17th at 6:30. Thanks, Marcus On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Stephen McInerney wrote: > Marcus - what day and date please? You might like to add to the subject > line. > > Thanks, > Stephen > > ------------------------------ > From: baypiggies at marcusphillips.com > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:18:09 -0700 > To: baypiggies at python.org > Subject: [Baypiggies] Meetup in SF > > > BayPIGgies, > > Just wanted to inform you of the meetup this week in SF. Should be a good > one, so please drop by if you're up this way. Details below, and at > meetup.com/sfpython. > > Regards, > Marcus > > > ---- > This month, we have Jim Baker from Boulder, CO giving us a talk on python > performance optimization. > Speaker Bio: > Jim Baker has 15 years of professional software development experience, > focusing on business intelligence, enterprise system management, and > high-performance web applications. He is a member at the Python Software > Foundation, a committer on Jython, and a frequent speaker at pyCon on python > performance / iterators. He holds a Bachelor of Computer Science from > Harvard University and a Masters of Computer Science from Brown University > (and an all-but-dissertation PhD candidate). > Abstract: > You have great unit tests. Your Python code is correct, or at least as much > as you can tell with your testing. Now you may want to optimize the > performance of some of that code, so as to improve the user experience, > reduce costs, or enhance scalability. In this talk, we will look at how to > apply some proven techniques for optimizing Python performance. First we > will discuss some approaches to profiling, which is what you should do > first. Then we will examine a variety of optimization strategies, from small > optimizations, to using better algorithms and more appropriate data > structures, to the impact of using a better fitting (or perhaps more > well-written) library, and more. And we will look at what exactly you may > want to optimize, whether that is response time, throughput, or various > other related metrics, and how to appropriately balance. Lastly, as it comes > up, we will also discuss some of the differences between the various > implementations, like CPython and Jython. > Agenda- > 6:30p - 7:00p Pizza and Networking > 7:00p - 8:30p Main talk / Q&A > Please RSVP so we know how much food to order ;-) > About Slide's office: > 2.5 blocks from Cal Train > Easy parking along 2nd street and Brannan > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up > now. > -- "My silence is original silence, not a quotation from his silence. Mine is a much better silent piece. I have been able to say in one minute what Cage could only say in four minutes and 33 seconds." -Michael Batt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From donnamsnow at gmail.com Mon Sep 14 21:49:19 2009 From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:49:19 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] ZPUG Valley Meetup at Hacker Dojo Message-ID: Hi, Please join us for our first ZPUG Valley meetup at the Hacker Dojo in Mountain View on Wednesday, September 16 from 7-9pm Come on by and I'll give you a tour of the dojo. No speakers scheduled for our first event but the next meeting we will have a Django developer presenting. http://www.meetup.com/ZPUG-Valley/calendar/11355598/ Our focus is python based web frameworks - although it's a Zope/Python User Group we will introduce and discuss various python based web frameworks - Django, Pylons, Grok, Repoze, Zope/Plone and TurboGears. Although my first love is Zope/Plone my goal here is to learn about the other framworks in the same space. Hope to see you there.. (no fee but a donation to the hacker dojo is encouraged :-)) Donna 'SnowWrite' Snow card.ly/snowwrite -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From donnamsnow at gmail.com Mon Sep 14 21:50:43 2009 From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:50:43 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] ZPUG Valley Meetup at Hacker Dojo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Can't spell this afternoon. That's frameworks - no framworks. On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:49 PM, Donna Snow wrote: > Hi, > > Please join us for our first ZPUG Valley meetup at the Hacker Dojo in > Mountain View on Wednesday, September 16 from 7-9pm > > Come on by and I'll give you a tour of the dojo. No speakers scheduled for > our first event but the next meeting we will have a Django developer > presenting. > > http://www.meetup.com/ZPUG-Valley/calendar/11355598/ > > Our focus is python based web frameworks - although it's a Zope/Python User > Group we will introduce and discuss various python based web frameworks - > Django, Pylons, Grok, Repoze, Zope/Plone and TurboGears. Although my first > love is Zope/Plone my goal here is to learn about the other framworks in the > same space. > > Hope to see you there.. > > (no fee but a donation to the hacker dojo is encouraged :-)) > > Donna 'SnowWrite' Snow > card.ly/snowwrite > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aahz at pythoncraft.com Mon Sep 14 22:05:42 2009 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:05:42 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] FWD: [PSF-Members] GHOP to run again Message-ID: <20090914200542.GA11690@panix.com> ----- Forwarded message from "C. Titus Brown" ----- Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 07:01:58 -0700 From: "C. Titus Brown" To: psf-members at python.org Subject: [PSF-Members] GHOP to run again Reply-To: titus at idyll.org Hi folks, the Google Highly Open Participation contest ('GHOP') is going to run again this year, assuming they can get some help with the Melange app. It will run in December starting ~Dec 7th, and closer to Dec I will buzz this list again with some suggestions and thoughts on how to make GHOP work well for the PSF and Python. (Note that this should be a great opportunity for the diversity list folk to both lead by example AND to encourage young underrepresented students to get involved with Python, hint.) --- If you're not familiar with GHOP, it is a contest framework that lets Google pay students for doing small units of work (coding, testing, doc writing, etc.) on a wide variety of projects. It was a success for the PSFlast time, http://code.google.com/opensource/ghop/2007-8/ in that tons of doc changes and test fixes got committed to core, many other projects benefitted, and most of the people involved had a pretty good time. However, BEFORE GHOP CAN RUN AGAIN, we (Google + GHOP enthusiasts) need help with the Melange application. It's a bit clunky, it hasn't been used for GHOP before, and it needs some development and a lot of testing. Since it's written in Python/Django, and I happen to know there are a lot of good testing tools available for both Python and Django, I hope the Python community can help out. What can I do? -------------- Forward this message on to people you know. Forward it on or post it publicly, or suggest places for me to post it. Get involved! How do I get involved? ---------------------- Join melange dev: http://groups.google.com/group/melange-soc-dev Areas where melange could use some help: http://groups.google.com/group/melange-soc-dev/msg/7a57c798441fd0e8 My blog posts on the subject: http://ivory.idyll.org/blog/sep-09/ghop-to-run-again.html http://ivory.idyll.org/blog/sep-09/ghop-conference-call.html --titus -- C. Titus Brown, ctb at msu.edu _______________________________________________ PSF-Members mailing list PSF-Members at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-members ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "It's 106 miles to Chicago. We have a full tank of gas, a half-pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." "Hit it." From aahz at pythoncraft.com Mon Sep 14 23:49:55 2009 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:49:55 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Job: Contract Django programmer Message-ID: <20090914214955.GA25700@panix.com> I've been working here for a month, and I like both the job and the product. For more info, see http://www.egnyte.com/ Egnyte, based in Mountain View , California is growing at a fast pace. We use python extensively on the server and client side. With increasing demand for our solution, we have embarked on a aggressive product development road map and Python plays a critical part in that plan. We are looking for contractor to work with us on some immediate projects using the Django framework. The minimum experience "preferred" is 2-5 years in a commercial web development environment. * Prior experience with Django is a must * 2+ years Python experience is a must, experience in Java a plus * Experience with JSON/XML is a plus * Effective problem solving and quantitative skills Send resumes to jgraham at egnyte.com (mention BayPIGgies!), but feel free to ask me questions. -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "It's 106 miles to Chicago. We have a full tank of gas, a half-pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." "Hit it." From brent.tubbs at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 02:42:22 2009 From: brent.tubbs at gmail.com (Brent Tubbs) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:42:22 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Job: Contract Django programmer In-Reply-To: <20090914214955.GA25700@panix.com> References: <20090914214955.GA25700@panix.com> Message-ID: <769bb4300909141742k1beef820rcd92a19317f5ac23@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Aahz! Given that it's a contract position, I'm curious about the quantity of the work that needs doing. Full time? Part time? One month? Six? Brent On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Aahz wrote: > I've been working here for a month, and I like both the job and the > product. For more info, see http://www.egnyte.com/ > > Egnyte, based in Mountain View , California is growing at a fast pace. > We use python extensively on the server and client side. With increasing > demand for our solution, we have embarked on a aggressive product > development road map and Python plays a critical part in that plan. We > are looking for contractor to work with us on some immediate projects > using the Django framework. > > The minimum experience "preferred" is 2-5 years in a commercial web > development environment. > > * Prior experience with Django is a must > * 2+ years Python experience is a must, experience in Java a plus > * Experience with JSON/XML is a plus > * Effective problem solving and quantitative skills > > Send resumes to jgraham at egnyte.com (mention BayPIGgies!), but feel free > to ask me questions. > -- > Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> > http://www.pythoncraft.com/ > > "It's 106 miles to Chicago. We have a full tank of gas, a half-pack of > cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." "Hit it." > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 02:45:21 2009 From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:45:21 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Job: Contract Django programmer In-Reply-To: <769bb4300909141742k1beef820rcd92a19317f5ac23@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090914214955.GA25700@panix.com> <769bb4300909141742k1beef820rcd92a19317f5ac23@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > Given that it's a contract position, I'm curious about the quantity > of the work that needs doing. Full time? Part time? One month? Six? +1 to the curiosity ;-) I'd like to know too. ------------- Rami Chowdhury "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD) On Sep 14, 2009, at 17:42 , Brent Tubbs wrote: > Thanks Aahz! > > Given that it's a contract position, I'm curious about the quantity > of the work that needs doing. Full time? Part time? One month? Six? > > Brent > > On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Aahz wrote: > I've been working here for a month, and I like both the job and the > product. For more info, see http://www.egnyte.com/ > > Egnyte, based in Mountain View , California is growing at a fast pace. > We use python extensively on the server and client side. With > increasing > demand for our solution, we have embarked on a aggressive product > development road map and Python plays a critical part in that plan. We > are looking for contractor to work with us on some immediate projects > using the Django framework. > > The minimum experience "preferred" is 2-5 years in a commercial web > development environment. > > * Prior experience with Django is a must > * 2+ years Python experience is a must, experience in Java a plus > * Experience with JSON/XML is a plus > * Effective problem solving and quantitative skills > > Send resumes to jgraham at egnyte.com (mention BayPIGgies!), but feel > free > to ask me questions. > -- > Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ > > "It's 106 miles to Chicago. We have a full tank of gas, a half-pack > of > cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." "Hit it." > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aahz at pythoncraft.com Tue Sep 15 02:57:03 2009 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:57:03 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Job: Contract Django programmer In-Reply-To: <769bb4300909141742k1beef820rcd92a19317f5ac23@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090914214955.GA25700@panix.com> <769bb4300909141742k1beef820rcd92a19317f5ac23@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090915005703.GA22683@panix.com> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009, Brent Tubbs wrote: > > Given that it's a contract position, I'm curious about the quantity of the > work that needs doing. Full time? Part time? One month? Six? Hard to be sure (I'm not directly involved with this project and the people who are don't know enough to give a good estimate). But I'd say that the initial phase ought to be done full-time in about a month, with good prospects for more work. -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "It's 106 miles to Chicago. We have a full tank of gas, a half-pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." "Hit it." From tungwaiyip at yahoo.com Wed Sep 16 19:10:30 2009 From: tungwaiyip at yahoo.com (Tung Wai Yip) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:10:30 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] open source hosting for small Python libraries In-Reply-To: <20090615164844.GB11124@unworkable.org> References: <20090615164844.GB11124@unworkable.org> Message-ID: I have a small collection of Python libraries. They do simple things, but can come in handy when it fits your need. Some examples are, HTMLTestRunner http://tungwaiyip.info/software/HTMLTestRunner.html XML to Python data structure http://code.activestate.com/recipes/534109/ They are stable code with at most a few hundred lines. Over the years I have receive low level but steady interest on them. I feel that I should find them a proper home so that they can be supported and maintained. Mainly I'm looking something easy to use and setup. Sourceforge looks overwhelming. Is google code a good place? Any other recommendations? Wai Yip From tripathi.vibha at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 19:17:24 2009 From: tripathi.vibha at gmail.com (b. tripathi) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:17:24 -0400 Subject: [Baypiggies] open source hosting for small Python libraries In-Reply-To: References: <20090615164844.GB11124@unworkable.org> Message-ID: <4AB11DA4.4070609@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at whitlark.org Wed Sep 16 19:27:12 2009 From: jason at whitlark.org (Jason Whitlark) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:27:12 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] open source hosting for small Python libraries In-Reply-To: References: <20090615164844.GB11124@unworkable.org> Message-ID: <5d932450909161027x2c89c493h4cda2bc4f511f1c6@mail.gmail.com> There's always github; that's a great place for things like this. ~Jason Whitlark On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Tung Wai Yip wrote: > I have a small collection of Python libraries. They do simple things, but > can come in handy when it fits your need. Some examples are, > > > HTMLTestRunner > http://tungwaiyip.info/software/HTMLTestRunner.html > > > XML to Python data structure > http://code.activestate.com/recipes/534109/ > > > They are stable code with at most a few hundred lines. Over the years I have > receive low level but steady interest on them. I feel that I should find > them a proper home so that they can be supported and maintained. Mainly I'm > looking something easy to use and setup. Sourceforge looks overwhelming. Is > google code a good place? Any other recommendations? > > Wai Yip > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From bsergean at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 19:31:28 2009 From: bsergean at gmail.com (Benjamin Sergeant) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:31:28 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] open source hosting for small Python libraries In-Reply-To: <5d932450909161027x2c89c493h4cda2bc4f511f1c6@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090615164844.GB11124@unworkable.org> <5d932450909161027x2c89c493h4cda2bc4f511f1c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1621f9fa0909161031x23bacc75vf5c28a62c43cc275@mail.gmail.com> You can also use bitbucket (works with Mercurial). If you're hacking on your libraries at work sometimes and your company has a firewall that blocks ssh port, that won't be a problem with Mercurial (it can operates over http). - Benjamin On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Jason Whitlark wrote: > There's always github; that's a great place for things like this. > > ~Jason Whitlark > > On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Tung Wai Yip wrote: >> I have a small collection of Python libraries. They do simple things, but >> can come in handy when it fits your need. Some examples are, >> >> >> HTMLTestRunner >> http://tungwaiyip.info/software/HTMLTestRunner.html >> >> >> XML to Python data structure >> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/534109/ >> >> >> They are stable code with at most a few hundred lines. Over the years I have >> receive low level but steady interest on them. I feel that I should find >> them a proper home so that they can be supported and maintained. Mainly I'm >> looking something easy to use and setup. Sourceforge looks overwhelming. Is >> google code a good place? Any other recommendations? >> >> Wai Yip >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From tungwaiyip at yahoo.com Wed Sep 16 19:32:05 2009 From: tungwaiyip at yahoo.com (Tung Wai Yip) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:32:05 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] open source hosting for small Python libraries In-Reply-To: <4AB11DA4.4070609@gmail.com> References: <20090615164844.GB11124@unworkable.org> <4AB11DA4.4070609@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm already using ASPN. But it is not useful for maintaining and evolving the code. Once in a while I get a request like can you make it backward compatible with Python 2.4. It need to have some version control mechanism. thanks, Wai Yip > You could put the recipes here as well: > http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/ > > thanks, > -v > > > Tung Wai Yip wrote: > > I have a small collection of Python libraries. They do simple things, > but can > come in handy when it fits your need. Some examples are, > > > HTMLTestRunner > http://tungwaiyip.info/software/HTMLTestRunner.html > > > XML to Python data structure > http://code.activestate.com/recipes/534109/ > > > They are stable code with at most a few hundred lines. Over the years I > have > receive low level but steady interest on them. I feel that I should find > them a > proper home so that they can be supported and maintained. Mainly I'm > looking > something easy to use and setup. Sourceforge looks overwhelming. Is > google code > a good place? Any other recommendations? > > Wai Yip > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From aleax at google.com Wed Sep 16 21:57:46 2009 From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:57:46 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] open source hosting for small Python libraries In-Reply-To: References: <20090615164844.GB11124@unworkable.org> <4AB11DA4.4070609@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55dc209b0909161257t2ef1cf99nfa17df588c457530@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Tung Wai Yip wrote: > I'm already using ASPN. But it is not useful for maintaining and evolving > the code. Once in a while I get a request like can you make it backward > compatible with Python 2.4. It need to have some version control mechanism. I find Google Code open-source project hosting works well with Subversion and Mercurial (my two favorite VCSs, as it happens) -- it includes a simple but usable integrated code review facility that's handier to use than a general instance of Rietveld on appspot.com could be (though the latter would support just about any VCS, and is somewhat richer), as well as other facilities you could typically want (issue tracking, etc, etc). Before Google Code launched Mercurial support (for a long time it was svn-only), I also used bitbucket and I found it good, too (it also has the advantage of hosting non-open-source projects at reasonable rates, if you're interested in that) but now that I can get hg hosting on either bitbucket or code.google.com I find I prefer the latter, thanks to such little but useful touches as the code review facility, for example. If you're into git rather than mercurial, I assume you'll prefer github, or, if into bazaar, then launchpad. But now that the PSF has chosen Mercurial as the future DVCS for Python itself (current migration from svn to hg in progress), I do imagine hg will gain some more prominence in the Python community. Alex From tungwaiyip at yahoo.com Thu Sep 17 18:58:34 2009 From: tungwaiyip at yahoo.com (Tung Wai Yip) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:58:34 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] open source hosting for small Python libraries In-Reply-To: <5d932450909161027x2c89c493h4cda2bc4f511f1c6@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090615164844.GB11124@unworkable.org> <5d932450909161027x2c89c493h4cda2bc4f511f1c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you for the suggestions. My knowledge in SCM is outdated. I haven't even heard of Mercurial and Git until now. Let me check them out. Wai Yip On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:27:12 -0700, Jason Whitlark wrote: > There's always github; that's a great place for things like this. > > ~Jason Whitlark From billkatz at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 19:30:44 2009 From: billkatz at gmail.com (Bill Katz) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:30:44 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] open source hosting for small Python libraries In-Reply-To: <55dc209b0909161257t2ef1cf99nfa17df588c457530@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090615164844.GB11124@unworkable.org> <4AB11DA4.4070609@gmail.com> <55dc209b0909161257t2ef1cf99nfa17df588c457530@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <59aa95140909171030i515963a4x9a8beeaae3eac12b@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Alex Martelli wrote: > Before Google Code launched Mercurial support ... Alex, Is Mercurial support for Google Code public now or is it still on a limited project basis? I've been happy with github for my public projects, but I'm thinking of playing with Hg. Scott from Github developed this bi-directional bridge between hg and git: http://github.com/blog/439-hg-git-mercurial-plugin Wai Yip, you might want to check out this analysis done by the Google Code folks: http://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/DVCSAnalysis and this: http://www.infoq.com/articles/dvcs-guide -Bill From aleax at google.com Thu Sep 17 21:31:11 2009 From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:31:11 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] open source hosting for small Python libraries In-Reply-To: <59aa95140909171030i515963a4x9a8beeaae3eac12b@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090615164844.GB11124@unworkable.org> <4AB11DA4.4070609@gmail.com> <55dc209b0909161257t2ef1cf99nfa17df588c457530@mail.gmail.com> <59aa95140909171030i515963a4x9a8beeaae3eac12b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <55dc209b0909171231s46999b55k40f6dd33aaf26c11@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Bill Katz wrote: > On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Alex Martelli wrote: >> Before Google Code launched Mercurial support ... > > Alex, > Is Mercurial support for Google Code public now or is it still on a > limited project basis? I've seen it widely publically announced, e.g here: http://code.google.com/projecthosting/ Alex From slander at unworkable.org Fri Sep 18 07:12:12 2009 From: slander at unworkable.org (Harry Tormey) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:12:12 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] PyGameSF meetup Wednesday September 23 6pm @ Main San Francisco Public Library Message-ID: <20090918051211.GA21398@unworkable.org> Hi All, The September PyGameSF meet up will be at the STONG conference room on the first floor of the main San Francisco public library beside civic center BART. The library closes at 8pm so we will reconvene to frjtz on hayes street for dinner/drinks afterwords. This month's presentations are: *Niall Higgins (http://niallohiggins.com/): "OAuth and OpenID: A Python Hacker's Guide." Niall gives an overview of his experiences working with both OAuth (http://oauth.net/) and OpenID (http://openid.net/) *Brad Busse, Harry Tormey(http://harrytormey.com/), Keith Nemitz (http://mousechief.com/): "If we did do Pyweek9, here's how and what happened". An overview of the pyweek experience, what works what doesn't and why. PyGameSF is an informal group meet up in San Francisco for Software engineers interested in python, OpenGL, audio, pygame, SDL, programming and generally anything to do with multimedia development. The format of our meetings typically involve several people giving presentations on projects they are developing followed by group discussion and feedback. If anyone else would like to give a micro presentation, show demos or just talk about what they are doing or generally give examples of any relevant software they are working on please feel free to head along To subscribe to the pygamesf mailing list simply email pygame-sf+subscribe at unworkable.org -- Harry Tormey Co Founder P2P Research http://p2presearch.com Founder PyGameSF http://pygamesf.org Software Engineer Digidesign http://digidesign.com From john_re at fastmail.us Fri Sep 18 10:42:27 2009 From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 01:42:27 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Sunday 20th Global Python Mtg via VOIP - BerkeleyTIP - for forwarding Message-ID: <1253263347.14920.1335453501@webmail.messagingengine.com> Get a VOIP headset, Install VOIP client SW, & join the global Python meeting this Sunday Sept 20, 12N-3P Pacific Daylight Savings Time (UTC-8), 3P-6P Eastern, (7P-10P UTC?) http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance Or, come to the physical meeting at the UCBerkeley Free Speech Cafe. Lots of great, exciting new things for Python users, as we start Year 2 of the Global FSW GNU(Linux)/BSD, Free HW, Free Culture, TIP meetings: TIP = Talks, Installfest, Project/Programing Party. Educational, Productive, Social. Join with the meeting from your home via VOIP, or create a local meeting at your local college wifi cafe. ===== Quick announcement. We're starting up BTIP year 2, for the 2009-10 school year. http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/home September Videos: Puppet language, Python mystery talks, CampKDE http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos This year 2 we'll be focusing on 1) Inviting UC Berkeley students via poster/flyers 2) Getting local meetings going at California colleges 3) Getting invitations out to more American countries 4) Getting topic groups (OLPC, Python, KDE & GNOME, Ubuntu, etc) having simultaneous meetings. 5) Improving our VOIP server, perhaps upgrading to FreeSwitch. == Come join the Sept 20 Sunday meeting, get on voip, chat, discuss the videos, work on your own projects & share them with others, help educate students, & help work on the group projects. Join #berkeleytip on irc.freenode.net, & we'll help you get your VOIP HW & SW working. :) Join the mailing lists & say hi, tell us what you are interested in. http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal/?pli=1 You are invited to forward this message anywhere it would be welcomed. :) From jjinux at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 12:16:42 2009 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 03:16:42 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] functional languages (was: Eric Raymond likes Python) In-Reply-To: <4AAE66F3.40604@palm.com> References: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> <78b3a9580909061253x43944d89ldb54f8afa13eaa3a@mail.gmail.com> <3cce76f60909140136v78b97dffkde218243371d3dc1@mail.gmail.com> <4AAE66F3.40604@palm.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Rich Pixley wrote: > Has anyone here spent any time with Mercury? > ?(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_%28programming_language%29) ?And if > so, how was it for you? > > I've always thought it looked to have some commercial potential. ?It's more > prolog than ML, but it's in the family of "functional languages". ?But I > haven't really had much opportunity to do anything with it. I haven't tried it, but you may also want to look at Alice. It's in that same category, and I really liked it. -jj -- In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From jjinux at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 12:27:26 2009 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 03:27:26 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python In-Reply-To: References: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> <20090906192105.GA23031@panix.com> <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> <78b3a9580909061253x43944d89ldb54f8afa13eaa3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > I was looking for a commercial answer, aka "does anyone actually seriously > use OCAML and for what?". There are several startups in the Bay area that use Ocaml. Alec can correct me if I'm wrong, but even Freebase uses it for an internal compiler-like thingy. At IronPort, we used ML in our fuzzy hash library. In my own experiments, I've found Ocaml and Haskell to require just slightly more lines of code than Python, but perform way, way, way better. One time at PyCon, I asked if we could add a "match" statement to Python like Haskell has. I was booed ;) -jj -- In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From alecf at flett.org Fri Sep 18 20:11:29 2009 From: alecf at flett.org (Alec Flett) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:11:29 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Eric Raymond likes Python In-Reply-To: References: <1252257558.6363.86.camel@jim-laptop> <20090906192105.GA23031@panix.com> <8B361B27-D0EF-400F-A442-1FC8DB669FD9@gmail.com> <78b3a9580909061253x43944d89ldb54f8afa13eaa3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yep, thought I might sneak away from this unmentioned, but Freebase does in fact have a project where we're using OCaml to translate one query language into another... as I understand it, the approach works well, and is the kind of thing OCaml does well. We're actually switching away from python to this implementation because we found the python implementation to be very CPU heavy. (That said, the CPU heaviness may or may not be directly to blame on Python - the implementation needed a rewrite anyway, and someone with OCaml expertise simply chose that over Python) Alec On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 3:27 AM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > > I was looking for a commercial answer, aka "does anyone actually > seriously > > use OCAML and for what?". > > There are several startups in the Bay area that use Ocaml. Alec can > correct me if I'm wrong, but even Freebase uses it for an internal > compiler-like thingy. At IronPort, we used ML in our fuzzy hash > library. > > In my own experiments, I've found Ocaml and Haskell to require just > slightly more lines of code than Python, but perform way, way, way > better. > > One time at PyCon, I asked if we could add a "match" statement to > Python like Haskell has. I was booed ;) > > -jj > > -- > In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things > with great love. -- Mother Teresa > http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjinux at gmail.com Sun Sep 20 01:31:25 2009 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 16:31:25 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] May BayPython Videos - Description, More? BerkeleyTIP Sat Sept 5, 1PM In-Reply-To: <7C2E7BD0-855B-44C6-A93C-6554749330BE@glenjarvis.com> References: <1252096505.30581.1333288135@webmail.messagingengine.com> <7C2E7BD0-855B-44C6-A93C-6554749330BE@glenjarvis.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote: >> == ?Also, Glen, &/or whoever records python videos - any newer videos? >> ?Anyone video Alex's Aug 26 "management" talk??? > > I did record this talk. However, I hadn't had time to get it converted to a > usable format (my Macbook is in the shop :( ? ) ? ? I will do this on the > weekend. > > I have gotten into the habit of just setting up the camera to record and > leaving it be (instead of manning it) because usually, I'm standing up and > watching the camera for no reason and blocking other people's view. However, > I did notice, when switching tapes, that Alex had gotten into his talk (as I > did) and moved to the left out of the frame of the camera. I'm not certain > how long this had occurred. > > I have also seen another video of this talk. JJ, can you share that link > with me again? ?My laptop is in the shop and I don't have access to that > info right now It's just audio: http://itc.conversationsnetwork.org/shows/detail1372.html -jj -- In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From jim at well.com Sun Sep 20 04:55:13 2009 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 19:55:13 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] change of meeting dates for november and december Message-ID: <1253415313.6415.238.camel@jim-laptop> Tony reports that Symantec can let us use the VCafe on Thursday, November 19 (third Thursday of November) and Monday, December 14. Now we should commit to having meetings on those dates and figure out who'll speak on what or some alternative activity. Got opinions or ideas? Please respond. From charles.merriam at gmail.com Sun Sep 20 10:36:52 2009 From: charles.merriam at gmail.com (Charles Merriam) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 01:36:52 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] change of meeting dates for november and december In-Reply-To: <1253415313.6415.238.camel@jim-laptop> References: <1253415313.6415.238.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: Alternately, I can host BayPiggies at the HackerDojo. The HackerDojo has great internet access, a 'bring your laptop and hack' alternative if the meeting is boring, and other cool features. Charles Merriam On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 7:55 PM, jim wrote: > > ? Tony reports that Symantec can let us use the > VCafe on Thursday, November 19 (third Thursday > of November) and Monday, December 14. > ? Now we should commit to having meetings on > those dates and figure out who'll speak on what > or some alternative activity. > ? Got opinions or ideas? Please respond. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com Sun Sep 20 17:14:13 2009 From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:14:13 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] change of meeting dates for november and december In-Reply-To: References: <1253415313.6415.238.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: <78C73892-2444-40E8-B59E-E56B61759156@gmail.com> Sorry, I'm not familiar with it -- where's the Dojo? ------------- Rami Chowdhury "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD) On Sep 20, 2009, at 01:36 , Charles Merriam wrote: > Alternately, I can host BayPiggies at the HackerDojo. > > The HackerDojo has great internet access, a 'bring your laptop and > hack' alternative if the meeting is boring, and other cool features. > > Charles Merriam > > On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 7:55 PM, jim wrote: >> >> Tony reports that Symantec can let us use the >> VCafe on Thursday, November 19 (third Thursday >> of November) and Monday, December 14. >> Now we should commit to having meetings on >> those dates and figure out who'll speak on what >> or some alternative activity. >> Got opinions or ideas? Please respond. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From charles.merriam at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 02:10:00 2009 From: charles.merriam at gmail.com (Charles Merriam) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 17:10:00 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] change of meeting dates for november and december In-Reply-To: <78C73892-2444-40E8-B59E-E56B61759156@gmail.com> References: <1253415313.6415.238.camel@jim-laptop> <78C73892-2444-40E8-B59E-E56B61759156@gmail.com> Message-ID: HackerDojo.Com. 140 South Whisman Road in Mountain View, CA. Great freeway access. Good CalTrains. Near Castro. Handles up to 300. Electronics lab. Etc. Do people want a full write-up on the Dojo? On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Rami Chowdhury wrote: > Sorry, I'm not familiar with it -- where's the Dojo? > > ------------- > Rami Chowdhury > "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor > 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD) > > > > > On Sep 20, 2009, at 01:36 , Charles Merriam wrote: > >> Alternately, I can host BayPiggies at the HackerDojo. >> >> The HackerDojo has great internet access, a 'bring your laptop and >> hack' alternative if the meeting is boring, and other cool features. >> >> Charles Merriam >> >> On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 7:55 PM, jim wrote: >>> >>> ?Tony reports that Symantec can let us use the >>> VCafe on Thursday, November 19 (third Thursday >>> of November) and Monday, December 14. >>> ?Now we should commit to having meetings on >>> those dates and figure out who'll speak on what >>> or some alternative activity. >>> ?Got opinions or ideas? Please respond. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Baypiggies mailing list >>> Baypiggies at python.org >>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > From andrew at atoulou.se Mon Sep 21 03:24:04 2009 From: andrew at atoulou.se (Andrew Akira Toulouse) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 18:24:04 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] change of meeting dates for november and december In-Reply-To: References: <1253415313.6415.238.camel@jim-laptop> <78C73892-2444-40E8-B59E-E56B61759156@gmail.com> Message-ID: <372D7806-8FB1-449F-91B9-237805F15049@atoulou.se> I expect a full, 2000-word essay by tomorrow morning. You will be graded. ;) --Andy On Sep 20, 2009, at 5:10 PM, Charles Merriam wrote: > HackerDojo.Com. 140 South Whisman Road in Mountain View, CA. Great > freeway access. Good CalTrains. Near Castro. > > Handles up to 300. Electronics lab. Etc. Do people want a full > write-up on the Dojo? > > On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Rami Chowdhury > wrote: >> Sorry, I'm not familiar with it -- where's the Dojo? >> >> ------------- >> Rami Chowdhury >> "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor >> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD) >> >> >> >> >> On Sep 20, 2009, at 01:36 , Charles Merriam wrote: >> >>> Alternately, I can host BayPiggies at the HackerDojo. >>> >>> The HackerDojo has great internet access, a 'bring your laptop and >>> hack' alternative if the meeting is boring, and other cool features. >>> >>> Charles Merriam >>> >>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 7:55 PM, jim wrote: >>>> >>>> Tony reports that Symantec can let us use the >>>> VCafe on Thursday, November 19 (third Thursday >>>> of November) and Monday, December 14. >>>> Now we should commit to having meetings on >>>> those dates and figure out who'll speak on what >>>> or some alternative activity. >>>> Got opinions or ideas? Please respond. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Baypiggies mailing list >>>> Baypiggies at python.org >>>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Baypiggies mailing list >>> Baypiggies at python.org >>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From annaraven at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 03:35:43 2009 From: annaraven at gmail.com (Anna Ravenscroft) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 18:35:43 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] change of meeting dates for november and december In-Reply-To: References: <1253415313.6415.238.camel@jim-laptop> <78C73892-2444-40E8-B59E-E56B61759156@gmail.com> Message-ID: We should have folks from the Hacker Dojo give us a tour! It's great. I love the place. On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Charles Merriam wrote: > HackerDojo.Com. ?140 South Whisman Road in Mountain View, CA. ?Great > freeway access. ?Good CalTrains. ?Near Castro. > > Handles up to 300. ?Electronics lab. ? Etc. ?Do people want a full > write-up on the Dojo? > > On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Rami Chowdhury > wrote: >> Sorry, I'm not familiar with it -- where's the Dojo? >> >> ------------- >> Rami Chowdhury >> "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor >> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD) >> >> >> >> >> On Sep 20, 2009, at 01:36 , Charles Merriam wrote: >> >>> Alternately, I can host BayPiggies at the HackerDojo. >>> >>> The HackerDojo has great internet access, a 'bring your laptop and >>> hack' alternative if the meeting is boring, and other cool features. >>> >>> Charles Merriam >>> >>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 7:55 PM, jim wrote: >>>> >>>> ?Tony reports that Symantec can let us use the >>>> VCafe on Thursday, November 19 (third Thursday >>>> of November) and Monday, December 14. >>>> ?Now we should commit to having meetings on >>>> those dates and figure out who'll speak on what >>>> or some alternative activity. >>>> ?Got opinions or ideas? Please respond. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Baypiggies mailing list >>>> Baypiggies at python.org >>>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Baypiggies mailing list >>> Baypiggies at python.org >>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -- cordially, Anna -- I am the mother of all things and all things shall wear a sweater! From donnamsnow at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 04:02:44 2009 From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:02:44 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] change of meeting dates for november and december In-Reply-To: References: <1253415313.6415.238.camel@jim-laptop> <78C73892-2444-40E8-B59E-E56B61759156@gmail.com> Message-ID: I volunteer at the Hacker Dojo 2 days a week. The floor was just put in in the lounge and it looks great. It's also open from 10am - 10pm on most days so if you want to hang out a bit after the meeting you have some leeway (as long as keyed staff member is there) If anyone wants a tour either Charles or I are there during the day (I'm there Wednesday and Friday) We also just leased the unit next door to better accommodate events. Donna 'SnowWrite' Snow card.ly/snowwrite On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Anna Ravenscroft wrote: > We should have folks from the Hacker Dojo give us a tour! It's great. > I love the place. > > On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Charles Merriam > wrote: > > HackerDojo.Com. 140 South Whisman Road in Mountain View, CA. Great > > freeway access. Good CalTrains. Near Castro. > > > > Handles up to 300. Electronics lab. Etc. Do people want a full > > write-up on the Dojo? > > > > On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Rami Chowdhury > > wrote: > >> Sorry, I'm not familiar with it -- where's the Dojo? > >> > >> ------------- > >> Rami Chowdhury > >> "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor > >> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD) > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sep 20, 2009, at 01:36 , Charles Merriam wrote: > >> > >>> Alternately, I can host BayPiggies at the HackerDojo. > >>> > >>> The HackerDojo has great internet access, a 'bring your laptop and > >>> hack' alternative if the meeting is boring, and other cool features. > >>> > >>> Charles Merriam > >>> > >>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 7:55 PM, jim wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Tony reports that Symantec can let us use the > >>>> VCafe on Thursday, November 19 (third Thursday > >>>> of November) and Monday, December 14. > >>>> Now we should commit to having meetings on > >>>> those dates and figure out who'll speak on what > >>>> or some alternative activity. > >>>> Got opinions or ideas? Please respond. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Baypiggies mailing list > >>>> Baypiggies at python.org > >>>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Baypiggies mailing list > >>> Baypiggies at python.org > >>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Baypiggies mailing list > > Baypiggies at python.org > > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > > > > > -- > cordially, > Anna > -- > I am the mother of all things and all things shall wear a sweater! > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjinux at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 09:18:08 2009 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 00:18:08 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] change of meeting dates for november and december In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0909201627u5ab9df9cl3fa2a18f0b04af7a@mail.gmail.com> References: <1253415313.6415.238.camel@jim-laptop> <8249c4ac0909201627u5ab9df9cl3fa2a18f0b04af7a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The HackerDojo sounds swell, but let's not mess with Symantec. Symantec provides exactly what this group needs--a lot of space that is consistently available. -jj -- In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From charles.merriam at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 10:43:02 2009 From: charles.merriam at gmail.com (Charles Merriam) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 01:43:02 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] change of meeting dates for november and december In-Reply-To: References: <1253415313.6415.238.camel@jim-laptop> <8249c4ac0909201627u5ab9df9cl3fa2a18f0b04af7a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sorry, I'm confused. The issue started with Symantec not being "a lot of space that is consistently available." On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 12:18 AM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > The HackerDojo sounds swell, but let's not mess with Symantec. > Symantec provides exactly what this group needs--a lot of space that > is consistently available. > > -jj > > -- > In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things > with great love. -- Mother Teresa > http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From jeff.enderwick at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 22:52:55 2009 From: jeff.enderwick at gmail.com (Jeff Enderwick) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:52:55 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] python versions Message-ID: Hey y'all, what's the general vibe around versions of python: RH/centos is still on 2.4.x, app-engine (last time I checked) was on 2.5.x, and 2.6.x has been out for a while. Is there a reason not to go for 2.6.x in a production environment? thx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 22:57:27 2009 From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:57:27 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] python versions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:52:55 -0700, Jeff Enderwick wrote: > Is there a reason not to go for 2.6.x in a production environment? IIRC OS X 10.6 ships with 2.6.2, so Apple doesn't seem to think so :-) -- Rami Chowdhury "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" -- Hanlon's Razor 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD) From rich.pixley at palm.com Mon Sep 21 23:10:26 2009 From: rich.pixley at palm.com (Rich Pixley) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:10:26 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] python versions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AB7EBC2.3060601@palm.com> Rami Chowdhury wrote: > On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:52:55 -0700, Jeff Enderwick > wrote: > >> Is there a reason not to go for 2.6.x in a production environment? >> > > IIRC OS X 10.6 ships with 2.6.2, so Apple doesn't seem to think so :-) > 2.6.1, actually. Ubuntu ships with 2.6.2. There are actually some good reasons to switch to 2.6 - context managers, etc, and language constructions that are available in 3.x. A better set of questions to ask are, "do you really need to stay old rather than current?" and "Does this application need 2.x rather than 3.x?" --rich -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 23:18:12 2009 From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:18:12 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] python versions In-Reply-To: <4AB7EBC2.3060601@palm.com> References: <4AB7EBC2.3060601@palm.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:10:26 -0700, Rich Pixley wrote: > Rami Chowdhury wrote: >> On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:52:55 -0700, Jeff Enderwick >> wrote: >> >>> Is there a reason not to go for 2.6.x in a production environment? >>> >> >> IIRC OS X 10.6 ships with 2.6.2, so Apple doesn't seem to think so :-) >> > 2.6.1, actually. Ubuntu ships with 2.6.2. Oops -- sorry, I should have checked before posting. -- Rami Chowdhury "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" -- Hanlon's Razor 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD) From keith at dartworks.biz Tue Sep 22 01:16:03 2009 From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:16:03 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] python versions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090921161603.66613507@dartworks.biz> === On Mon, 09/21, Jeff Enderwick wrote: === > Hey y'all, what's the general vibe around versions of python: > RH/centos is still on 2.4.x, app-engine (last time I checked) was on > 2.5.x, and 2.6.x has been out for a while. > Is there a reason not to go for 2.6.x in a production environment? === I don't think there is any reason not to. You can always install from a custom built package, or install from source. FYI, Gentoo Linux can currently install 2.6 and 3.1 simultaneously. -- Keith Dart -- -- -------------------- Keith Dart ======================= From rich.pixley at palm.com Tue Sep 22 01:26:38 2009 From: rich.pixley at palm.com (Rich Pixley) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:26:38 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] python versions In-Reply-To: <20090921161603.66613507@dartworks.biz> References: <20090921161603.66613507@dartworks.biz> Message-ID: <4AB80BAE.4010405@palm.com> Keith Dart wrote: > FYI, Gentoo Linux can currently install 2.6 and 3.1 simultaneously. Ubuntu can as well. --rich From glen at glenjarvis.com Wed Sep 23 03:19:38 2009 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:19:38 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Google Chrome Frame Message-ID: <47C1CD5A-65C9-4C75-AC2E-590E89ED3DE2@glenjarvis.com> This is only python related for those who are python web developers... *Finally* a solution for IE.... http://blog.chromium.org/2009/09/introducing-google-chrome-frame.html Cheers, Glen From jjinux at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 06:35:16 2009 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:35:16 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Google Chrome Frame In-Reply-To: <47C1CD5A-65C9-4C75-AC2E-590E89ED3DE2@glenjarvis.com> References: <47C1CD5A-65C9-4C75-AC2E-590E89ED3DE2@glenjarvis.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > This is only python related for those who are python web developers... > > *Finally* a solution for IE.... > > http://blog.chromium.org/2009/09/introducing-google-chrome-frame.html I hate to sound pessimistic, but doesn't this presuppose that users will actually install the plugin? -jj -- In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From stephen.cattaneo at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 06:47:24 2009 From: stephen.cattaneo at gmail.com (Stephen Cattaneo) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:47:24 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Google Chrome Frame In-Reply-To: References: <47C1CD5A-65C9-4C75-AC2E-590E89ED3DE2@glenjarvis.com> Message-ID: I was thinking the same. I'm hoping that a plugin is an easier sell than a whole new browser; but I doubt it. Too many people only get a new browser when they are forced to. S /** * I am jack's amusing signature. * ( Sent from my iphone ) **/ On Sep 22, 2009, at 9:35 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Glen Jarvis > wrote: >> This is only python related for those who are python web >> developers... >> >> *Finally* a solution for IE.... >> >> http://blog.chromium.org/2009/09/introducing-google-chrome-frame.html > > I hate to sound pessimistic, but doesn't this presuppose that users > will actually install the plugin? > > -jj > > -- > In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things > with great love. -- Mother Teresa > http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From jsnitow at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 07:29:48 2009 From: jsnitow at gmail.com (Julian Snitow) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:29:48 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Google Chrome Frame In-Reply-To: References: <47C1CD5A-65C9-4C75-AC2E-590E89ED3DE2@glenjarvis.com> Message-ID: <54075e090909222229q4e91af65vff79585a3ed2a2b9@mail.gmail.com> A more optimistic take: HTML5 is about to become commercially viable. I imagine adoption of this plugin will accelerate once, say, YouTube starts suggesting it. :) On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Stephen Cattaneo < stephen.cattaneo at gmail.com> wrote: > I was thinking the same. I'm hoping that a plugin is an easier sell than a > whole new browser; but I doubt it. Too many people only get a new browser > when they are forced to. > > S > > /** > * I am jack's amusing signature. > * ( Sent from my iphone ) > **/ > > > On Sep 22, 2009, at 9:35 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote: >> >>> This is only python related for those who are python web developers... >>> >>> *Finally* a solution for IE.... >>> >>> http://blog.chromium.org/2009/09/introducing-google-chrome-frame.html >>> >> >> I hate to sound pessimistic, but doesn't this presuppose that users >> will actually install the plugin? >> >> -jj >> >> -- >> In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things >> with great love. -- Mother Teresa >> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bsergean at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 21:02:24 2009 From: bsergean at gmail.com (Benjamin Sergeant) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:02:24 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Dumb "keep it running" script Message-ID: <1621f9fa0909231202s55a5ca03v3347f6d48bcdfd0@mail.gmail.com> Hi there, I figured out this morning that I had a long-running process that died one week ago for some obscure reasons. I made a little script that restarts a script when the called script die. I know there are already existing stuff doing that but I could not remember the name / find any existing ones ... so why not re-inventing the wheel one more time :) Thanks for any feedback, - Benjamin http://code.activestate.com/recipes/576911/ #!/usr/bin/env python import sys import time import subprocess """ Keep a process up and running If you have a long running process that can be killed for strange and unknown reason, you might want it to be restarted ... this script does that. $ cat alive.sh #!/bin/sh while `true`; do echo Alive && sleep 3 ; done Use it like this: $ keepup.py ./alive.sh """ cmd = ' '.join(sys.argv[1:]) def start_subprocess(): return subprocess.Popen(cmd, shell=True) p = start_subprocess() while True: res = p.poll() if res is not None: print p.pid, 'was killed, restarting it' p = start_subprocess() time.sleep(1) From aahz at pythoncraft.com Wed Sep 23 21:32:14 2009 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:32:14 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Dumb "keep it running" script In-Reply-To: <1621f9fa0909231202s55a5ca03v3347f6d48bcdfd0@mail.gmail.com> References: <1621f9fa0909231202s55a5ca03v3347f6d48bcdfd0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090923193214.GA1251@panix.com> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009, Benjamin Sergeant wrote: > > I figured out this morning that I had a long-running process that died > one week ago for some obscure reasons. I made a little script that > restarts a script when the called script die. I know there are already > existing stuff doing that but I could not remember the name / find any > existing ones ... so why not re-inventing the wheel one more time :) If you're running on a Mac, investigate the launchd feature. -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ gfarber: Thank God, or the belief system of your choice. pddb: Does human perversity count as a belief system? From bpederse at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 21:43:10 2009 From: bpederse at gmail.com (Brent Pedersen) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:43:10 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Dumb "keep it running" script In-Reply-To: <1621f9fa0909231202s55a5ca03v3347f6d48bcdfd0@mail.gmail.com> References: <1621f9fa0909231202s55a5ca03v3347f6d48bcdfd0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Benjamin Sergeant wrote: > Hi there, > > I figured out this morning that I had a long-running process that died > one week ago for some obscure reasons. I made a little script that > restarts a script when the called script die. I know there are already > existing stuff doing that but I could not remember the name / find any > existing ones ?... so why not re-inventing the wheel one more time :) > > Thanks for any feedback, > - Benjamin > > http://code.activestate.com/recipes/576911/ > #!/usr/bin/env python > > import sys > import time > import subprocess > > """ > Keep a process up and running > > If you have a long running process that can be killed for strange and unknown > reason, you might want it to be restarted ... this script does that. > > $ cat alive.sh > #!/bin/sh > > while `true`; do echo Alive && sleep 3 ; done > > Use it like this: > $ keepup.py ./alive.sh > """ > > cmd = ' '.join(sys.argv[1:]) > > def start_subprocess(): > ? ?return subprocess.Popen(cmd, shell=True) > > p = start_subprocess() > > while True: > > ? ?res = p.poll() > ? ?if res is not None: > ? ? ? ?print p.pid, 'was killed, restarting it' > ? ? ? ?p = start_subprocess() > > ? ?time.sleep(1) > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > there's also the monitor option in paste serve. check out restart_with_monitor() in http://svn.pythonpaste.org/Paste/Script/trunk/paste/script/serve.py which you could crib from or use directly. From sfseth at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 22:01:57 2009 From: sfseth at gmail.com (Seth Friedman) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:01:57 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Dumb "keep it running" script In-Reply-To: References: <1621f9fa0909231202s55a5ca03v3347f6d48bcdfd0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <64e45fca0909231301g188f1915x20d893c2c7fab975@mail.gmail.com> has anyone around here looked at the linux 'supervise' stuff to accomplish this? http://cr.yp.to/daemontools.html ~s On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Brent Pedersen wrote: > On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Benjamin Sergeant > wrote: > > Hi there, > > > > I figured out this morning that I had a long-running process that died > > one week ago for some obscure reasons. I made a little script that > > restarts a script when the called script die. I know there are already > > existing stuff doing that but I could not remember the name / find any > > existing ones ... so why not re-inventing the wheel one more time :) > > > > Thanks for any feedback, > > - Benjamin > > > > http://code.activestate.com/recipes/576911/ > > #!/usr/bin/env python > > > > import sys > > import time > > import subprocess > > > > """ > > Keep a process up and running > > > > If you have a long running process that can be killed for strange and > unknown > > reason, you might want it to be restarted ... this script does that. > > > > $ cat alive.sh > > #!/bin/sh > > > > while `true`; do echo Alive && sleep 3 ; done > > > > Use it like this: > > $ keepup.py ./alive.sh > > """ > > > > cmd = ' '.join(sys.argv[1:]) > > > > def start_subprocess(): > > return subprocess.Popen(cmd, shell=True) > > > > p = start_subprocess() > > > > while True: > > > > res = p.poll() > > if res is not None: > > print p.pid, 'was killed, restarting it' > > p = start_subprocess() > > > > time.sleep(1) > > _______________________________________________ > > Baypiggies mailing list > > Baypiggies at python.org > > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > > > there's also the monitor option in paste serve. check out > restart_with_monitor() in > http://svn.pythonpaste.org/Paste/Script/trunk/paste/script/serve.py > which you could crib from or use directly. > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rich.pixley at palm.com Wed Sep 23 22:11:53 2009 From: rich.pixley at palm.com (Rich Pixley) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:11:53 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Dumb "keep it running" script In-Reply-To: <1621f9fa0909231202s55a5ca03v3347f6d48bcdfd0@mail.gmail.com> References: <1621f9fa0909231202s55a5ca03v3347f6d48bcdfd0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ABA8109.5060005@palm.com> Sometimes it's easier/faster/more-fun to reinvent the wheel than to figure out where the last person left it and what they expected their programmer interface to look like. --rich From rbowlby83 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 23 22:34:58 2009 From: rbowlby83 at yahoo.com (Ryan Bowlby) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Baypiggies] Dumb "keep it running" script In-Reply-To: <1621f9fa0909231202s55a5ca03v3347f6d48bcdfd0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <75641.70159.qm@web112120.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> *nix: http://cr.yp.to/daemontools.html - the original Mac: Launchd - daemon monitoring perfected Linux: inittab (respawn) - already running, so no additional process overhead. Includes logging, etc. You thought you would be safe from these replies with your "reinventing wheel" disclaimer...sorry I couldn't help it. -Ryan --- On Wed, 9/23/09, Benjamin Sergeant wrote: > From: Benjamin Sergeant > Subject: [Baypiggies] Dumb "keep it running" script > To: "Baypiggies" > Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 3:02 PM > Hi there, > > I figured out this morning that I had a long-running > process that died > one week ago for some obscure reasons. I made a little > script that > restarts a script when the called script die. I know there > are already > existing stuff doing that but I could not remember the name > / find any > existing ones? ... so why not re-inventing the wheel > one more time :) > > Thanks for any feedback, > - Benjamin > > http://code.activestate.com/recipes/576911/ > #!/usr/bin/env python > > import sys > import time > import subprocess > > """ > Keep a process up and running > > If you have a long running process that can be killed for > strange and unknown > reason, you might want it to be restarted ... this script > does that. > > $ cat alive.sh > #!/bin/sh > > while `true`; do echo Alive && sleep 3 ; done > > Use it like this: > $ keepup.py ./alive.sh > """ > > cmd = ' '.join(sys.argv[1:]) > > def start_subprocess(): > ? ? return subprocess.Popen(cmd, shell=True) > > p = start_subprocess() > > while True: > > ? ? res = p.poll() > ? ? if res is not None: > ? ? ? ? print p.pid, 'was killed, > restarting it' > ? ? ? ? p = start_subprocess() > > ? ? time.sleep(1) > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From todd.valentic at sri.com Wed Sep 23 22:35:01 2009 From: todd.valentic at sri.com (Todd Valentic) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:35:01 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Dumb "keep it running" script In-Reply-To: <4ABA8109.5060005@palm.com> References: <1621f9fa0909231202s55a5ca03v3347f6d48bcdfd0@mail.gmail.com> <4ABA8109.5060005@palm.com> Message-ID: <4ABA8675.1050002@sri.com> The one that I use quite often, especially for a bunch of TurboGears based sites I manage, is supervisor (written in python): http://supervisord.org/ Todd -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 5214 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From bsergean at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 00:16:08 2009 From: bsergean at gmail.com (Benjamin Sergeant) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:16:08 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Dumb "keep it running" script In-Reply-To: <75641.70159.qm@web112120.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1621f9fa0909231202s55a5ca03v3347f6d48bcdfd0@mail.gmail.com> <75641.70159.qm@web112120.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1621f9fa0909231516t7a214f66x3edf1dd926da2bd1@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for all the links and insights :) I'm gonna keep running on my brand new wheel and when I'll have a flat tire I'll look into those links. ;) - Benjamin On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Ryan Bowlby wrote: > *nix: ?http://cr.yp.to/daemontools.html - the original > Mac: ? Launchd - daemon monitoring perfected > Linux: inittab (respawn) - already running, so no additional process overhead. Includes logging, etc. > > You thought you would be safe from these replies with your "reinventing wheel" disclaimer...sorry I couldn't help it. > > -Ryan > > > --- On Wed, 9/23/09, Benjamin Sergeant wrote: > >> From: Benjamin Sergeant >> Subject: [Baypiggies] Dumb "keep it running" script >> To: "Baypiggies" >> Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 3:02 PM >> Hi there, >> >> I figured out this morning that I had a long-running >> process that died >> one week ago for some obscure reasons. I made a little >> script that >> restarts a script when the called script die. I know there >> are already >> existing stuff doing that but I could not remember the name >> / find any >> existing ones? ... so why not re-inventing the wheel >> one more time :) >> >> Thanks for any feedback, >> - Benjamin >> >> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/576911/ >> #!/usr/bin/env python >> >> import sys >> import time >> import subprocess >> >> """ >> Keep a process up and running >> >> If you have a long running process that can be killed for >> strange and unknown >> reason, you might want it to be restarted ... this script >> does that. >> >> $ cat alive.sh >> #!/bin/sh >> >> while `true`; do echo Alive && sleep 3 ; done >> >> Use it like this: >> $ keepup.py ./alive.sh >> """ >> >> cmd = ' '.join(sys.argv[1:]) >> >> def start_subprocess(): >> ? ? return subprocess.Popen(cmd, shell=True) >> >> p = start_subprocess() >> >> while True: >> >> ? ? res = p.poll() >> ? ? if res is not None: >> ? ? ? ? print p.pid, 'was killed, >> restarting it' >> ? ? ? ? p = start_subprocess() >> >> ? ? time.sleep(1) >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From jim at well.com Thu Sep 24 03:44:26 2009 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:44:26 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday September 24, 2009: Parrot VM Message-ID: <1253756666.6445.13.camel@jim-laptop> BayPIGgies meeting Thursday September 24, 2009: Parrot VM Tonight's talk is * Parrot VM by Allison Randal Meetings start with a Newbie Nugget, a short discussion of an essential Python feature, specially for those new to Python. Tonight's Newbie Nugget: List Comprehension LOCATION Symantec Corporation Symantec Vcafe 350 Ellis Street Mountain View, CA 94043 http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=w6i_Sfr6MZmQsQOzlv0v&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116202735295394761637.00046550c09ff3d96bff1&ll=37.397693,-122.053707&spn=0.002902,0.004828&z=18 BayPIGgies meeting information is available at http://baypiggies.net/new/plone ------------------------ Agenda ------------------------ ..... 7:30 PM ........................... General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any first-minute announcements. ..... 7:35 PM to 7:45 PM ................ Newbie Nugget: List Comprehension ..... 7:45 PM to 8:45 PM ................ Title: Parrot VM by Allison Randal The Parrot virtual machine hit 1.0 in March of this year, with a second production release (1.4) in July. A virtual machine like no other, Parrot targets dynamic languages like Python. It hosts a powerful suite of compiler tools tailored to dynamic languages and a next generation regular expression engine. This talk explores Pynie, an implementation of Python 3 on Parrot, with a brief explanation of the overall architecture of Parrot. ..... 8:45 PM to 9:20 PM ................ Mapping and Random Access Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of topics that the announcers are interested in. Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up individually on the announcements and other topics of interest. From tony at tcapp.com Thu Sep 24 05:16:07 2009 From: tony at tcapp.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:16:07 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday September 24, 2009: Parrot VM In-Reply-To: <1253756666.6445.13.camel@jim-laptop> References: <1253756666.6445.13.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: <8249c4ac0909232016r3d270d35r3416f130d7b5f947@mail.gmail.com> BayPIGgies meeting information is available at >>http://baypiggies.net/new/plone Jim that URL is not the correct one. Bill can we have an automatic redirect? On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 6:44 PM, jim wrote: > > BayPIGgies meeting Thursday September 24, 2009: Parrot VM > > > Tonight's talk is > * Parrot VM > by Allison Randal > > > Meetings start with a Newbie Nugget, a short discussion of an > essential Python feature, specially for those new to Python. > Tonight's Newbie Nugget: List Comprehension > > LOCATION > Symantec Corporation > Symantec Vcafe > 350 Ellis Street > Mountain View, CA 94043 > > http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=w6i_Sfr6MZmQsQOzlv0v&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116202735295394761637.00046550c09ff3d96bff1&ll=37.397693,-122.053707&spn=0.002902,0.004828&z=18 > > BayPIGgies meeting information is available at > http://baypiggies.net/new/plone > > > > ------------------------ Agenda ------------------------ > > ..... 7:30 PM ........................... > General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any > first-minute announcements. > > > ..... 7:35 PM to 7:45 PM ................ > > Newbie Nugget: List Comprehension > > > ..... 7:45 PM to 8:45 PM ................ > > Title: Parrot VM > by Allison Randal > > The Parrot virtual machine hit 1.0 in March of this year, with > a second production release (1.4) in July. A virtual machine > like no other, Parrot targets dynamic languages like Python. It > hosts a powerful suite of compiler tools tailored to dynamic > languages and a next generation regular expression engine. This > talk explores Pynie, an implementation of Python 3 on Parrot, > with a brief explanation of the overall architecture of Parrot. > > > ..... 8:45 PM to 9:20 PM ................ > Mapping and Random Access > > Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of topics that > the announcers are interested in. > > Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up individually > on the announcements and other topics of interest. > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drewp at bigasterisk.com Thu Sep 24 07:27:37 2009 From: drewp at bigasterisk.com (Drew Perttula) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 22:27:37 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Dumb "keep it running" script In-Reply-To: <4ABA8675.1050002@sri.com> References: <1621f9fa0909231202s55a5ca03v3347f6d48bcdfd0@mail.gmail.com> <4ABA8109.5060005@palm.com> <4ABA8675.1050002@sri.com> Message-ID: <4ABB0349.2010102@bigasterisk.com> Todd Valentic wrote: > > The one that I use quite often, especially for a bunch of TurboGears > based sites I manage, is supervisor (written in python): > > http://supervisord.org/ > I <3 supervisord. Here's the alive.sh demo, using supervisor: Either sudo easy_install supervisor or virtualenv . bin/easy_install supervisor (and then prefix the rest of the commands with bin/) echo_supervisord_conf > supervisord.conf Append these lines to the end of supervisord.conf: [program:alive] command=./alive.sh supervisord -c supervisord.conf (daemon is launched) tail -f /tmp/alive-stdout* (watch the output of the command) There are lots of controls for what to do if alive.sh goes down, how many times to retry, for how long, etc. Controlling the process: 1. supervisorctl -c supervisord.conf That launches an interactive console for starting/stopping/checking processes. 2. You can also turn on a web UI that looks like this: http://bigasterisk.com/post/supervisor1.png 3. You can talk to supervisord over xmlrpc, too. From keith at dartworks.biz Thu Sep 24 08:05:56 2009 From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:05:56 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Dumb "keep it running" script In-Reply-To: <1621f9fa0909231516t7a214f66x3edf1dd926da2bd1@mail.gmail.com> References: <1621f9fa0909231202s55a5ca03v3347f6d48bcdfd0@mail.gmail.com> <75641.70159.qm@web112120.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1621f9fa0909231516t7a214f66x3edf1dd926da2bd1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090923230556.41b6bfbd@dartworks.biz> === On Wed, 09/23, Benjamin Sergeant wrote: === > Thanks for all the links and insights :) > I'm gonna keep running on my brand new wheel and when I'll have a flat > tire I'll look into those links. === One more, just for kicks: the pycopia process manager. Source file is: http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/source/browse/trunk/process/pycopia/proctools.py Part of the Pycopia package: http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/ It works like supervisord in that it spawns the subprocess itself, so it has low overhead. Just spawn a subprocess with the ProcessManager with persistent=True. This is the one I use. ;-) -- Keith Dart -- -- -------------------- Keith Dart ======================= From jjinux at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 08:50:55 2009 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:50:55 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Dumb "keep it running" script In-Reply-To: <20090923230556.41b6bfbd@dartworks.biz> References: <1621f9fa0909231202s55a5ca03v3347f6d48bcdfd0@mail.gmail.com> <75641.70159.qm@web112120.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1621f9fa0909231516t7a214f66x3edf1dd926da2bd1@mail.gmail.com> <20090923230556.41b6bfbd@dartworks.biz> Message-ID: >From my blog: http://jjinux.blogspot.com/2008/07/linux-running-paster-under-runit-on.html Linux: Running Paster under runit on Ubuntu I needed to setup Paster, Pylon's default Web server, on Ubuntu. I had a heck of a hard time deciding whether I wanted to run it under Supervisor, daemontools, monit, runit, or a handmade rc script. Supervisor has been getting a lot of press lately, but I couldn't find a standard way of starting it on Ubuntu. This seemed like a chicken and egg problem. Furthermore, I knew my buddy Mike Orr was having a hard time getting log rotation working with it. I wanted something that could restart my process as necessary, so I decided against a standard rc script, even though I knew Paster has a --monitor-restart option. I eventually settled on runit. I had used it in the past, the directions were clear, and it just "felt right". My buddy Allan Bailey even gave me a quick cheat sheet. If anyone can show me a nice comparison of all of these options, I'd love to read it. I wasn't able to find much on Google that compared them all. Anyway, here's what I did in outline (i.e. indented) form: Setup myapp under runit: Setup logging: mkdir -p /etc/sv/myapp/log mkdir -p /var/log/myapp cat > /etc/sv/myapp/log/run << __END__ #!/bin/sh exec 2>&1 exec chpst -u www-data:www-data svlogd -tt /var/log/myapp __END__ chmod +x /etc/sv/myapp/log/run chown -R www-data:www-data /var/log/myapp Setup Paster: cat > /etc/sv/myapp/run << __END__ #!/bin/sh exec 2>&1 cd /home/myproject/source/trunk/myapp exec chpst -u www-data:www-data paster serve production.ini __END__ chmod +x /etc/sv/myapp/run ln -s /etc/sv/myapp /etc/service/ Setup /var for the app: mkdir /var/run/myapp chown -R www-data:www-data /var/run/myapp Edited various directory settings in production.ini. It looks complicated, but really it isn't. runit has a lot of advantages such as good log rotation and it doesn't involved polling some pid file. If the command dies, runit gets notified by waitpid, and will restart the command *immediately*. Happy Hacking! -jj -- In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From glen.jarvis at thepythonshoppe.com Thu Sep 24 22:40:09 2009 From: glen.jarvis at thepythonshoppe.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:40:09 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Can't go tonight.. video? Message-ID: <54DBAB41-7A62-4209-8A86-7B30F73B9D12@thepythonshoppe.com> There's no way I can make it to Baypiggies tonight (work)... Does anyone else have a video camera they can bring tonight since I won't be there? Glen From jjinux at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 23:02:10 2009 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:02:10 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Can't go tonight.. video? In-Reply-To: <54DBAB41-7A62-4209-8A86-7B30F73B9D12@thepythonshoppe.com> References: <54DBAB41-7A62-4209-8A86-7B30F73B9D12@thepythonshoppe.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > There's no way I can make it to Baypiggies tonight (work)... Does anyone > else have a video camera they can bring tonight since I won't be there? Sorry to hear that, Glen. Does anyone at least know how to point their Mac at the speaker and record? I've seen that trick at other meetings ;) -jj -- In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From bsergean at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 01:57:23 2009 From: bsergean at gmail.com (Benjamin Sergeant) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:57:23 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Can't go tonight.. video? In-Reply-To: References: <54DBAB41-7A62-4209-8A86-7B30F73B9D12@thepythonshoppe.com> Message-ID: <1621f9fa0909241657nd9dc299wee49341850835d6b@mail.gmail.com> You can do that with QuickTime but you'll need quicktime pro on Leopard (just browse the menus). With Snow Leopard I think the limitation is gone. - Benjamin On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Glen Jarvis > wrote: >> There's no way I can make it to Baypiggies tonight (work)... Does anyone >> else have a video camera they can bring tonight since I won't be there? > > Sorry to hear that, Glen. ?Does anyone at least know how to point > their Mac at the speaker and record? ?I've seen that trick at other > meetings ;) > > -jj > > -- > In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things > with great love. -- Mother Teresa > http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From niallo at unworkable.org Fri Sep 25 04:34:18 2009 From: niallo at unworkable.org (Niall O'Higgins) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:34:18 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Py Web SF #4: 6pm, Tues September 29th, SF Main Public Library Message-ID: <20090925023418.GC20825@unworkable.org> Hi folks, PyWebSF is a Python meet-up with a strong focus on Web technology. From frameworks like WSGI/Pylons/TurboGears/Django to libraries like httplib2 to using emerging Web technologies like Amazon's AWS and Freebase - its all covered. The emphasis is on practical, hands-on lectures and discussion. Meetings start with one or two 30-40 minute presentations and end with informal discussion. Hackathon-style collaboration and project demos are encouraged. Who/What -------- * Jamie Taylor - "Borrowing from the Semantic Web to make your data more flexible" http://www.pywebsf.org/2009/09/23/jamie-taylor-borrowing-from-the-semantic-web-to-make-your-data-more-flexible/ * Harry Tormey - "Working with Facebook and Pylons" http://www.pywebsf.org/2009/09/23/harry-tormey-working-with-facebook-and-pylons/ When ---- 6PM, Tuesday 29 September 2009. Please try to arrive on time to avoid disappointment. We have space for around 10-20 people. Where ----- Stong conference room, 1st floor, SF Main Public Library. Map: http://tinyurl.com/pywebsfmap The library is easily accessible via both BART and Muni at the Civic Center station. The library closes at 8pm so we will continue the discussion over food/drinks at Frjtz Fries [http://www.frjtzfries.com]. More info --------- Subscribe to our Google Calendar at http://tinyurl.com/pywebcal Slides, links, and more at http://pywebsf.org/ Thanks! -- Niall O'Higgins PyWebSF http://pywebsf.org http://niallohiggins.com @niallohiggins on Twitter From wescpy at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 10:49:03 2009 From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 01:49:03 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python course & CPP 3rd ed follow-up Message-ID: <78b3a9580909250149pb0c2b02hd3da5df468f09c6@mail.gmail.com> some of you asked for more information about my announcements at the meeting tonite, so i'll just send out this follow-up. if you have any specific questions, feel free to drop me a line! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1. (COMPREHENSIVE) INTRO+INTERMEDIATE PYTHON course Mon-Wed, 2009 Nov 9-11, 9AM - 5PM ANNOUNCEMENT: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2009-September/727571.html WHERE: near the San Francisco Airport (SFO/San Bruno), CA FLYER: http://starship.python.net/crew/wesc/flyerPP1nov09.pdf the ANNOUNCEMENT link about will connect you to all of the above info plus various free previews to find out about my lecture style. the FLYER has both the sheet i handed out at the meeting plus will hook you up with all course specific information such as topics covered, cost, required HW/SW, prereqs, etc. there are discounts for multiple registrations from the same company, those who are students and secondary teachers, as well as those who have been laid off and can provide proof such as unemployment, etc. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2. CORE PYTHON PROGRAMMING, 3rd edition some of you may be familiar with my well-received Python book called "Core Python Programming." it's apparently selling pretty well so the publishers have asked me to work on the 3rd edition! in particular, i'm looking for aspiring writers knowledgeable in specific areas of Python development to help me out. if you're passionate about your area of Python expertise and want to see your name in print, this is your opportunity! i will be adding new material as well as cleaning up existing chapters. i'm also open to any addition comments or suggestions you may have regarding the material. NEW STUFF - testing: test tools, automation, web testing, code coverage - text processing: XML (SAX, DOM, ElementTree, etc.), JSON (json); data/web scraping, parsing, best practices, etc. - web frameworks: TurboGears2/Pylons, web2py, App Engine - web services/cloud computing: ReSTful APIs, Google Docs, documents/applications/RPCs in the cloud UPDATE EXISTING - database: SQLAlchemy update plus Elixir, ORM best practices, non-relational databases - extending/performance: SWIG, PyRex/Cython, Psyco - Java: more Jython examples, preferably with Java-equivalents at this point, i'm only in the research and preliminary drafts stage, so don't fret that i'm going to force a complete chapter out of you soon. :) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 3. OTHER ACTIVITIES as if my schedule wasn't full enough, i'm giving an additional *six* Python-related talks this fall, four of which are in Silicon Valley: 2009 Silicon Valley CodeCamp Sat-Sun, 2009 Oct 3-4 Los Altos Hills, CA, USA http://www.siliconvalley-codecamp.com/ a. What is Python? b. Programming Microsoft Office using Python c. Python 3: The Next Generation PyCon PL 2009 conference Fri-Sun, 2009 Oct 16-18 Ustron, Upper Silesia, Poland http://pl.pycon.org d. Objects, References, and Memory Model e. Concurrency in Python Programming Association for Computing Machinery (ACM San Francisco Bay Area Chapter) Sat, 2009 Nov 7 Cupertino, CA, USA http://www.sfbayacm.org/?p=852 f. Introduction to Python (1-day seminar) Hope to see you at any of these events! - wesley - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007, 2001 "Python Fundamentals" DVD, Prentice Hall, (c)2009 http://corepython.com wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com python training and technical consulting cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca http://cyberwebconsulting.com From sailingboa at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 17:33:52 2009 From: sailingboa at gmail.com (Sailing Boa) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:33:52 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Contact info for recruiter Message-ID: <6c271ff40909250833h35de4bbte5aac656f8483ee5@mail.gmail.com> Could someone send the contact info for the recruiter at the meeting last night? Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Fri Sep 25 17:53:28 2009 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:53:28 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Contact info for recruiter In-Reply-To: <6c271ff40909250833h35de4bbte5aac656f8483ee5@mail.gmail.com> References: <6c271ff40909250833h35de4bbte5aac656f8483ee5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1253894008.7898.37.camel@jim-laptop> Mark Torrillo 408 245 3915 x112 mark_torrillo at oxfordcorp.com he presented his job opportunity as a six month contract for a company in freemont working on a homeland airport security bomb/explosives detection system. skills include GUI (HTML or Perl CGI), postgresql or other rdbms, web site development (web framework: django or similar), some c++ experience. On Fri, 2009-09-25 at 08:33 -0700, Sailing Boa wrote: > Could someone send the contact info for the recruiter at the meeting > last night? > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From jim at well.com Fri Sep 25 19:44:32 2009 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:44:32 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] list comprehension newbie nugget "slides" Message-ID: <1253900672.7898.100.camel@jim-laptop> here's a link to last night's newbie nugget "slides" (they're html pages): http://www.systemateka.com/lcNewbie/lcNN_0.0.html i'll be grateful for any suggestions for improvement ("say less here", "here's a good code sample"...). jim From meenalpant at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 20:04:38 2009 From: meenalpant at gmail.com (Meenal Pant) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:04:38 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] list comprehension newbie nugget "slides" In-Reply-To: <1253900672.7898.100.camel@jim-laptop> References: <1253900672.7898.100.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: Thanks for these! My meeting attendance is nil due to family obligations so I want to thank you and all other members for putting their content on the web. A big thanks to Glen for all the videos! On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 10:44 AM, jim wrote: > > ? here's a link to last night's newbie nugget "slides" > (they're html pages): > http://www.systemateka.com/lcNewbie/lcNN_0.0.html > > ? i'll be grateful for any suggestions for improvement > ("say less here", "here's a good code sample"...). > jim > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From meenalpant at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 20:07:40 2009 From: meenalpant at gmail.com (Meenal Pant) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:07:40 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Facebook app with django Message-ID: Hi all, I just wanted to share my joy of creating my first facebook app with Django. It is a very basic Jane Austen quotes app and can be viewed at http://apps.facebook.com/jaquotes/ Feedback and comments are welcome. Thanks Meenal From Chris.Clark at ingres.com Fri Sep 25 20:00:02 2009 From: Chris.Clark at ingres.com (Chris Clark) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:00:02 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Can't go tonight.. video? In-Reply-To: References: <54DBAB41-7A62-4209-8A86-7B30F73B9D12@thepythonshoppe.com> Message-ID: <4ABD0522.3050407@ingres.com> Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Glen Jarvis > wrote: > >> There's no way I can make it to Baypiggies tonight (work)... Does anyone >> else have a video camera they can bring tonight since I won't be there? >> > > Sorry to hear that, Glen. Does anyone at least know how to point > their Mac at the speaker and record? I've seen that trick at other > meetings ;) > Did anyone webcam, etc the meeting? And/Or are the slides available? Thanks, Chris (couldn't make it either) From donnamsnow at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 20:17:17 2009 From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:17:17 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Facebook app with django In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sweet :-) (and congratulations!) I added it to my profile Donna 'SnowWrite' Snow On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Meenal Pant wrote: > Hi all, > I just wanted to share my joy of creating my first facebook app with > Django. It is a very basic Jane Austen quotes app and can be viewed > at http://apps.facebook.com/jaquotes/ > > Feedback and comments are welcome. > Thanks > Meenal > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brent.tubbs at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 20:41:03 2009 From: brent.tubbs at gmail.com (Brent Tubbs) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:41:03 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Can't go tonight.. video? In-Reply-To: <4ABD0522.3050407@ingres.com> References: <54DBAB41-7A62-4209-8A86-7B30F73B9D12@thepythonshoppe.com> <4ABD0522.3050407@ingres.com> Message-ID: <769bb4300909251141s734fb0a8w71b4e0d6c2831652@mail.gmail.com> I didn't see anyone recording it. On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Chris Clark wrote: > Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > >> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Glen Jarvis >> wrote: >> >> >>> There's no way I can make it to Baypiggies tonight (work)... Does anyone >>> else have a video camera they can bring tonight since I won't be there? >>> >>> >> >> Sorry to hear that, Glen. Does anyone at least know how to point >> their Mac at the speaker and record? I've seen that trick at other >> meetings ;) >> >> > > Did anyone webcam, etc the meeting? And/Or are the slides available? > > Thanks, > > Chris (couldn't make it either) > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glen at glenjarvis.com Fri Sep 25 21:07:50 2009 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:07:50 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Can't go tonight.. video? In-Reply-To: <769bb4300909251141s734fb0a8w71b4e0d6c2831652@mail.gmail.com> References: <54DBAB41-7A62-4209-8A86-7B30F73B9D12@thepythonshoppe.com> <4ABD0522.3050407@ingres.com> <769bb4300909251141s734fb0a8w71b4e0d6c2831652@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > I didn't see anyone recording it. I always try to go, even if I'm not personally interested in the topic or have time constraints. But, this one just got past me -- very busy at work the past few weeks. I'm going to make a stronger effort to at least get it recorded. I still have raw footage for almost every talk since we left Google (there are a few exceptions). Even if they're not in the best format, we can still provide something if needed.... but, it looks like we're out of luck on this one :( I also was late once (I blame JJ ;) hehehe ) -- so we didn't get it recorded - it was one of Alex's talk. I consider this 'community service' to my community -- I'll do better next time :) Cheers, Glen From Chris.Clark at ingres.com Fri Sep 25 21:30:06 2009 From: Chris.Clark at ingres.com (Chris Clark) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:30:06 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Facebook app with django In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ABD1A3E.9000905@ingres.com> Meenal Pant wrote: > I just wanted to share my joy of creating my first facebook app with > Django. It is a very basic Jane Austen quotes app and can be viewed > at http://apps.facebook.com/jaquotes/ > > Feedback and comments are welcome. > Do you have any "recent" quotes from her "new" books? http://www.amazon.com/Pride-Prejudice-Zombies-Classic-Ultraviolent/dp/1594743347 http://www.amazon.com/Sense-Sensibility-Monsters-Jane-Austen/dp/1594744424 ;-) From aahz at pythoncraft.com Sun Sep 27 05:50:48 2009 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 20:50:48 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] LAST CHANCE: PyCon 2010: Call for Proposals Message-ID: <20090927035048.GA11872@panix.com> Just four more days to propose a presentation! Call for proposals -- PyCon 2010 -- =============================================================== Due date: October 1st, 2009 Want to showcase your skills as a Python Hacker? Want to have hundreds of people see your talk on the subject of your choice? Have some hot button issue you think the community needs to address, or have some package, code or project you simply love talking about? Want to launch your master plan to take over the world with python? PyCon is your platform for getting the word out and teaching something new to hundreds of people, face to face. Previous PyCon conferences have had a broad range of presentations, from reports on academic and commercial projects, tutorials on a broad range of subjects and case studies. All conference speakers are volunteers and come from a myriad of backgrounds. Some are new speakers, some are old speakers. Everyone is welcome so bring your passion and your code! We're looking to you to help us top the previous years of success PyCon has had. PyCon 2010 is looking for proposals to fill the formal presentation tracks. The PyCon conference days will be February 19-22, 2010 in Atlanta, Georgia, preceded by the tutorial days (February 17-18), and followed by four days of development sprints (February 22-25). Online proposal submission is open now! Proposals will be accepted through October 1st, with acceptance notifications coming out on November 15th. For the detailed call for proposals, please see: For videos of talks from previous years - check out: We look forward to seeing you in Atlanta! -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "Look, it's your affair if you want to play with five people, but don't go calling it doubles." --John Cleese anticipates Usenet From daryl.spitzer at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 20:14:21 2009 From: daryl.spitzer at gmail.com (Daryl Spitzer) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:14:21 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Meetup in SF - This Thu at 6:30 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are the slides (or video or any other artifact) from this meeting available? (I'm asking on behalf of a co-worked in Israel who is very interested in the subject, but since I couldn't attend and am also interested I too am hoping there is.) -- Daryl On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Marcus Phillips wrote: > Woops!? It's this Thursday the 17th at 6:30. > > Thanks, > Marcus > > > On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Stephen McInerney > wrote: >> >> Marcus - what day and date please? You might like to add to the?subject >> line. >> >> Thanks, >> Stephen >> >> ________________________________ >> From: baypiggies at marcusphillips.com >> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:18:09 -0700 >> To: baypiggies at python.org >> Subject: [Baypiggies] Meetup in SF >> >> BayPIGgies, >> >> Just wanted to inform you of the meetup this week in SF.? Should be a good >> one, so please drop by if you're up this way.? Details below, and at >> meetup.com/sfpython. >> >> Regards, >> Marcus >> >> >> ---- >> This month, we have Jim Baker from Boulder, CO giving us a talk on python >> performance optimization. >> Speaker Bio: >> Jim Baker has 15 years of professional software development experience, >> focusing on business intelligence, enterprise system management, and >> high-performance web applications. He is a member at the Python Software >> Foundation, a committer on Jython, and a frequent speaker at pyCon on python >> performance / iterators. He holds a Bachelor of Computer Science from >> Harvard University and a Masters of Computer Science from Brown University >> (and an all-but-dissertation PhD candidate). >> Abstract: >> You have great unit tests. Your Python code is correct, or at least as >> much as you can tell with your testing. Now you may want to optimize the >> performance of some of that code, so as to improve the user experience, >> reduce costs, or enhance scalability. In this talk, we will look at how to >> apply some proven techniques for optimizing Python performance. First we >> will discuss some approaches to profiling, which is what you should do >> first. Then we will examine a variety of optimization strategies, from small >> optimizations, to using better algorithms and more appropriate data >> structures, to the impact of using a better fitting (or perhaps more >> well-written) library, and more. And we will look at what exactly you may >> want to optimize, whether that is response time, throughput, or various >> other related metrics, and how to appropriately balance. Lastly, as it comes >> up, we will also discuss some of the differences between the various >> implementations, like CPython and Jython. >> Agenda- >> 6:30p - 7:00p Pizza and Networking >> 7:00p - 8:30p Main talk / Q&A >> Please RSVP so we know how much food to order ;-) >> About Slide's office: >> 2.5 blocks from Cal Train >> Easy parking along 2nd street and Brannan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up >> now. > > > -- > "My silence is original silence, not a quotation from his silence. Mine is a > much better silent piece. I have been able to say in one minute what Cage > could only say in four minutes and 33 seconds." -Michael Batt > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From baypiggies at marcusphillips.com Mon Sep 28 21:07:40 2009 From: baypiggies at marcusphillips.com (Marcus Phillips) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:07:40 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Meetup in SF - This Thu at 6:30 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sure thing - I've just uploaded them, so you can find them on http://www.meetup.com/sfpython/files Regards, Marcus On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Daryl Spitzer wrote: > Are the slides (or video or any other artifact) from this meeting > available? > > (I'm asking on behalf of a co-worked in Israel who is very interested > in the subject, but since I couldn't attend and am also interested I > too am hoping there is.) > > -- > Daryl > > > On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Marcus Phillips > wrote: > > Woops! It's this Thursday the 17th at 6:30. > > > > Thanks, > > Marcus > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Stephen McInerney > > wrote: > >> > >> Marcus - what day and date please? You might like to add to the subject > >> line. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Stephen > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> From: baypiggies at marcusphillips.com > >> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:18:09 -0700 > >> To: baypiggies at python.org > >> Subject: [Baypiggies] Meetup in SF > >> > >> BayPIGgies, > >> > >> Just wanted to inform you of the meetup this week in SF. Should be a > good > >> one, so please drop by if you're up this way. Details below, and at > >> meetup.com/sfpython. > >> > >> Regards, > >> Marcus > >> > >> > >> ---- > >> This month, we have Jim Baker from Boulder, CO giving us a talk on > python > >> performance optimization. > >> Speaker Bio: > >> Jim Baker has 15 years of professional software development experience, > >> focusing on business intelligence, enterprise system management, and > >> high-performance web applications. He is a member at the Python Software > >> Foundation, a committer on Jython, and a frequent speaker at pyCon on > python > >> performance / iterators. He holds a Bachelor of Computer Science from > >> Harvard University and a Masters of Computer Science from Brown > University > >> (and an all-but-dissertation PhD candidate). > >> Abstract: > >> You have great unit tests. Your Python code is correct, or at least as > >> much as you can tell with your testing. Now you may want to optimize the > >> performance of some of that code, so as to improve the user experience, > >> reduce costs, or enhance scalability. In this talk, we will look at how > to > >> apply some proven techniques for optimizing Python performance. First we > >> will discuss some approaches to profiling, which is what you should do > >> first. Then we will examine a variety of optimization strategies, from > small > >> optimizations, to using better algorithms and more appropriate data > >> structures, to the impact of using a better fitting (or perhaps more > >> well-written) library, and more. And we will look at what exactly you > may > >> want to optimize, whether that is response time, throughput, or various > >> other related metrics, and how to appropriately balance. Lastly, as it > comes > >> up, we will also discuss some of the differences between the various > >> implementations, like CPython and Jython. > >> Agenda- > >> 6:30p - 7:00p Pizza and Networking > >> 7:00p - 8:30p Main talk / Q&A > >> Please RSVP so we know how much food to order ;-) > >> About Slide's office: > >> 2.5 blocks from Cal Train > >> Easy parking along 2nd street and Brannan > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up > >> now. > > > > > > -- > > "My silence is original silence, not a quotation from his silence. Mine > is a > > much better silent piece. I have been able to say in one minute what Cage > > could only say in four minutes and 33 seconds." -Michael Batt > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Baypiggies mailing list > > Baypiggies at python.org > > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > > -- "My silence is original silence, not a quotation from his silence. Mine is a much better silent piece. I have been able to say in one minute what Cage could only say in four minutes and 33 seconds." -Michael Batt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: