From keith at dartworks.biz  Sun Nov  1 09:48:25 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 01:48:25 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Frameworks
In-Reply-To: <20091029154843.GB3543@stinemates.org>
References: <1f7713e30910270928n3f190157r26d18b07f35fdf47@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091027214427.45505096@dartworks.biz>
	<20091029154843.GB3543@stinemates.org>
Message-ID: <20091101014825.4f8a5ac6@dartworks.biz>

=== On Thu, 10/29, Nick Stinemates wrote: ===
> Sounds cool. Where can I get it (and some examples?)
===

Ok, now that Halloween is out of the way I can respond to this. :-)

All of the code is available here:

http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/

Browse it here:

http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/source/browse/


On Linux, make sure you have the prerequisites installed first:

non-python:
libsmi
lighttpd
subversion

Python:
Python development packages (if any)
setuptools
psycopg2
sqlalchemy
Pyro
Pyrex
docutils
pycrypto

Ensure that your account can do sudo.

Then, get it by svn, and do "python setup.py install"

Some examples of the framework usage are also in the repository.

This page:

http://www.pycopia.org/webtools/headers

Is implemented by this code:

http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/source/browse/trunk/WWW/pycopia/webtools/core/views.py

And nothing more (except for config file).

The database has a generic database editor web interface, sort of like
the Django Admin stock application. This is not complete yet, but
usable to some degree. It is implemented in this code:


http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/source/browse/trunk/storage/pycopia/db/webservice.py

Plus the CSS:

http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/source/browse/trunk/storage/media/css/tableedit.css

And the config file:

http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/source/browse/trunk/storage/etc/storage.conf.example

And some Javascript (also not complete):

http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/source/browse/trunk/storage/media/js/db.js


I also wanted to avoid the overhead and user burden of SSH and
self-signed certificates, but also have it somewhat more secure than
non-SSH browser authentication. So the auth module implements CRAM-SHA1
login method. 

Python side:
http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/source/browse/trunk/WWW/pycopia/WWW/middleware/auth.py

Javascript:
http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/source/browse/trunk/WWW/media/js/login.js

CSS:
http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/source/browse/trunk/WWW/media/css/login.css

Please let me know if you have any more questions.


-- Keith Dart



-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================


-- 

-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================

From jaime at chompapps.com  Mon Nov  2 01:03:49 2009
From: jaime at chompapps.com (Jaime Bott)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 16:03:49 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Chompapps Etc
In-Reply-To: <C3AD22668E514AFB9AAD60711279E324@orion>
References: <mailman.8855.1256616675.2806.baypiggies@python.org>
	<C3AD22668E514AFB9AAD60711279E324@orion>
Message-ID: <c3699c3c0911011603y1a5634c6v1fd3b2a8ba255e7@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the feedback on the posting. I was not thinking about the "young"
portion of the statement when I said the company was looking for similar.
Age doesn't matter.

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:53 PM, Roderick Llewellyn <
roderick at sanfransystems.com> wrote:

> When I posted my innocent seeming question:
> In your job posting, I see the following phrase:
>
>  We are engineers, young, smart & aggressive
>
> Is this intended as a statement of the desired type of employee candidate?
>
> I was (hoping, wondering if? ) they would fall for it and actually say that
> they planned to discriminate on the basis of age, a protected class (at
> least some of the time as pointed out by Jeremy Fishman, thank you very
> much). I knew perfectly well that asking such a question would doom any
> chance I had of being employed there, but hell, I had zero chance anyway. I
> suppose the smart thing to do is to apply, and when I get rejected, get one
> of you young "rockstars" out there to apply, and then sue their butts. That
> might be my best strategy for making money now in the computer industry! I
> am considering asking my attorney about this posting.... legally, is an
> admission of intent to discriminate actionable, even before any actual
> discrimination has occurred? (my guess is no lol).. and of course the
> company will disassociate itself from Mr. Bott's statement you can bet.
> Tomorrow morning Chompapps will be calling THEIR attorney for sure!
>
> I kept my "innocent question" short also because I didn't want to harp on
> an issue I had brought up before.
>
> Now to do some harping:
> As far as Alex's post is concerned, my understanding is that when forming
> any kind of business or partnership (let alone personal or religious bonds)
> you are unconstrained by law. You can also discriminate in contracting as
> that is B2B and is unregulated. I believe the only regulated relationships
> are what is considered "employment". I also suspect that if every "employee"
> had to be a "partner" and this was used as a method of discriminating
> against a protected class, a jury would see right through it.
>
> We all know that these startup technology companies routinely DO
> discriminate on the basis of age and possibly along other axes as well. The
> problem is establishing proof in court. Most discrimination cases of any
> type are won only by showing statistically that, let's say, a much smaller
> percentage of women are hired for a given job class than would be expected.
> This means that only large employers (such as McDonald's), for which such
> statistics can be gathered, are likely to suffer any liability. For a small
> startup, hiring a few people here and there, they can always defend
> themselves by pointing to the individual differences between candidates
> other than the protected class difference (e.g., "we don't mind hiring older
> people, or women, or blacks, we just haven't seen any good ones").
>
> As far as "rockstars" are concerned, I might make the following
> associations with them:
> 1. They use drugs extensively.
> 2. They have enormous egos, and think they know how to run the entire
> planet because they play guitar.
> 3. They drive cars way too fast, they're "aggressive"
> 4. They die young.
> 5. They have sex with anything that moves, and then move on.
> 6. They may make beautiful music, but totally lack any people skills... and
> they may even be proud of that.
> Sound familiar? Is this a desireable employee profile?
>
> More seriously, I think sometimes this connects to the above conversation
> about discrimination. Often companies know not to do what Mr. Bott did and
> directly state that they intend to discriminate. Instead they have more
> subtle messages, such as the following things I've seen in employment
> postings:
> 1. You must have a fast trigger finger in Half-Life.
> 2. We play loud alternative rock music all the time.
> 3. We really like snowboarding and encourage everybody to join in.
> 4. We are "rockstars"... (and unless we're talking Mick Jagger, they're all
> under 30 right?)
> 5. We are "young at heart" (remember that one from a month or so ago)
> These messages are designed to tell people over 40 or so that they are not
> wanted. Remember we're talking software companies here, not snowboard
> makers, who might more reasonably want only snowboarding enthusiasts. The
> messages here have nothing to do with snowboarding, guitar playing, or even
> Half-Life playing (unless it's a games company)... they have everything to
> do with age.
>
> I've seen other cases. Once many years ago I interviewed (with a
> headhunter) for a company that made software for police and fire
> departments. The recruiter carefully informed me that the actual cops with
> whom I would work were the ones who were pulled off the street because they
> were too violent, and were thus sentenced to desk jobs. And that these were
> the ones who hated homosexuals the most. He never told me not to apply if I
> were gay (it happens that I am)... he was telling me a little story about
> the customers. But the message was loud and clear.
>
> Anyway, enough ranting for now, sorry for the long post.... Anyone got a
> Python job out there for people who are not necessarily young and aggressive
> (but who are smart)?
>
> Thanks all of you,
> Rod Llewellyn
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
Jaime Bott
www.jaimebott.com
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Nov  2 05:26:41 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 20:26:41 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies]  What's a web developer?
In-Reply-To: <b5cbfd40910292207u23deda0ew9826363869475f1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e58a4bea0910251621o53cc460dqbff90b212b500597@mail.gmail.com>
	<b5cbfd40910292207u23deda0ew9826363869475f1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091102042641.GD25309@panix.com>

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009, Meenal Pant wrote:
>
> I am new to the *real world web development* so to speak. I am
> wondering how many organizations actually use frameworks such as
> Django, Ruby on rails etc  ?  

Look at the job ads.  ;-)

> Also what is the technical difference between a backend developer,
> frontend developer and a web designer?  Isn't a frontend developer and
> designer the same thing ? What level of expertise does one need to be
> hired as a web developer, some of each ?

They all overlap.  Backend development focuses primarily on databases
and business logic; front-end development focuses mostly on coding to
present data to end-users; web designer focuses on the actual look and
feel (fonts, page layout, graphic elements, information design).

> I read on James Bennett's blog that "you are not a web developer if
> you do not know Javascript", so I am trying to understand what is an
> absolute must to make the cut.

Well, then, I guess I'm not a web developer even though my last 4.5-year
job was working on an app entirely delivered over the web and my current
one is primarily focused on a desktop web app.

OTOH, although I "don't know" JavaScript, I'm capable of writing it and
fixing bugs; if you know any C at all plus Python, JS is very easy to
pick up.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

[on old computer technologies and programmers]  "Fancy tail fins on a
brand new '59 Cadillac didn't mean throwing out a whole generation of
mechanics who started with model As."  --Andrew Dalke

From bender at onsrc.com  Mon Nov  2 07:30:32 2009
From: bender at onsrc.com (RYAN DELUCCHI)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 22:30:32 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] What's a web developer?
In-Reply-To: <20091102042641.GD25309@panix.com>
References: <e58a4bea0910251621o53cc460dqbff90b212b500597@mail.gmail.com>
	<b5cbfd40910292207u23deda0ew9826363869475f1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091102042641.GD25309@panix.com>
Message-ID: <5DB8BB0C-7839-45BA-BEAE-A1C7FB469B16@onsrc.com>

True.  but, on the other hand, I've been exposed to a lot more JS at  
my current gig and what *really* makes it tough are all those darned  
browser incompatibilities.  But, that's not really intrinsic to the  
language itself, and I am sure plenty here are well aware of this  
fact ... I just felt compelled to repeat it :-)

Ryan

> OTOH, although I "don't know" JavaScript, I'm capable of writing it  
> and
> fixing bugs; if you know any C at all plus Python, JS is very easy to
> pick up.


From motoom at xs4all.nl  Mon Nov  2 12:21:51 2009
From: motoom at xs4all.nl (Michiel Overtoom)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 12:21:51 +0100
Subject: [Baypiggies] What's a web developer?
In-Reply-To: <5DB8BB0C-7839-45BA-BEAE-A1C7FB469B16@onsrc.com>
References: <e58a4bea0910251621o53cc460dqbff90b212b500597@mail.gmail.com>
	<b5cbfd40910292207u23deda0ew9826363869475f1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091102042641.GD25309@panix.com>
	<5DB8BB0C-7839-45BA-BEAE-A1C7FB469B16@onsrc.com>
Message-ID: <72A383E3-B868-43EB-880D-F57490FC2F1A@xs4all.nl>


On 2 Nov 2009, at 07:30 , RYAN DELUCCHI wrote:

> True.  but, on the other hand, I've been exposed to a lot more JS at  
> my current gig and what *really* makes it tough are all those darned  
> browser incompatibilities.

May I suggest you have a look at jQuery (a JS library meant for  
inclusion in a webpage)?  It has lots of stuff in it that makes  
working with the DOM easier, and hides the browser incompatibilities  
for you.

Greetings,


From aleax at google.com  Mon Nov  2 17:06:08 2009
From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 09:06:08 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] What's a web developer?
In-Reply-To: <72A383E3-B868-43EB-880D-F57490FC2F1A@xs4all.nl>
References: <e58a4bea0910251621o53cc460dqbff90b212b500597@mail.gmail.com>
	<b5cbfd40910292207u23deda0ew9826363869475f1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091102042641.GD25309@panix.com>
	<5DB8BB0C-7839-45BA-BEAE-A1C7FB469B16@onsrc.com>
	<72A383E3-B868-43EB-880D-F57490FC2F1A@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <55dc209b0911020806n18cabe83v345b6ff2e9509def@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 4:21 AM, Michiel Overtoom <motoom at xs4all.nl> wrote:

>
> On 2 Nov 2009, at 07:30 , RYAN DELUCCHI wrote:
>
>  True.  but, on the other hand, I've been exposed to a lot more JS at my
>> current gig and what *really* makes it tough are all those darned browser
>> incompatibilities.
>>
>
> May I suggest you have a look at jQuery (a JS library meant for inclusion
> in a webpage)?  It has lots of stuff in it that makes working with the DOM
> easier, and hides the browser incompatibilities for you.
>

Dojo does the same thing, and while not quite as popular as jQuery (they're
probably the top 2 JS frameworks by popularity: jQuery 11.6 Mhits on search,
Dojo 7.7 Mhits though the latter are boosted by some accidental hits;-) it
was deliberately designed to be somewhat Pythonic (as the designers are big
fans and users of Python) -- for example Dojo's underlying support for
asynchronous operations rests on a "deferred" object that closely mimics the
one originally developed as part of the popular "Twisted" Python framework
for asynchronous network programming.


Alex
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From rich at noir.com  Mon Nov  2 17:43:28 2009
From: rich at noir.com (K. Richard Pixley)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 08:43:28 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] What's a web developer?
In-Reply-To: <55dc209b0911020806n18cabe83v345b6ff2e9509def@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e58a4bea0910251621o53cc460dqbff90b212b500597@mail.gmail.com>	<b5cbfd40910292207u23deda0ew9826363869475f1b@mail.gmail.com>	<20091102042641.GD25309@panix.com>	<5DB8BB0C-7839-45BA-BEAE-A1C7FB469B16@onsrc.com>	<72A383E3-B868-43EB-880D-F57490FC2F1A@xs4all.nl>
	<55dc209b0911020806n18cabe83v345b6ff2e9509def@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AEF0C30.8040703@noir.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 4:21 AM, Michiel Overtoom <motoom at xs4all.nl 
> <mailto:motoom at xs4all.nl>> wrote:
>
>
>     On 2 Nov 2009, at 07:30 , RYAN DELUCCHI wrote:
>
>         True.  but, on the other hand, I've been exposed to a lot more
>         JS at my current gig and what *really* makes it tough are all
>         those darned browser incompatibilities.
>
>
>     May I suggest you have a look at jQuery (a JS library meant for
>     inclusion in a webpage)?  It has lots of stuff in it that makes
>     working with the DOM easier, and hides the browser
>     incompatibilities for you.
>
>
> Dojo does the same thing, and while not quite as popular as jQuery 
> (they're probably the top 2 JS frameworks by popularity: jQuery 11.6 
> Mhits on search, Dojo 7.7 Mhits though the latter are boosted by some 
> accidental hits;-) it was deliberately designed to be somewhat 
> Pythonic (as the designers are big fans and users of Python) -- for 
> example Dojo's underlying support for asynchronous operations rests on 
> a "deferred" object that closely mimics the one originally developed 
> as part of the popular "Twisted" Python framework for asynchronous 
> network programming.
At the risk of veering too far off this forum's charter...

I went through researching js frameworks recently looking for something 
to pair with pylons or turbogears.  So I'll also throw in that Prototype 
was probably the original browser-difference-hiding-framework and is 
still quite popular.  People argue over whether Prototype qualifies as a 
framework, though.  And most of the others either incorporate Prototype 
directly or supply replacements for much of it's functionality.  If you 
only want a library which can hide browser differences, then Prototype 
is still a strong choice.

Dojo is free, (open source).  But ext-js has easily accessible examples, 
excellent documentation, and a grid widget that includes user selectable 
columns, user sortable columns, user column ordering, and user column 
sizing and appears to be the only framework that does.  I didn't find 
much of anything to recommend jquery other than that it is recently 
taking off in popularity, probably because it's recently been adopted by 
a few larger corporations.

Pre-built grid widgets are still cutting edge.  And editing fields with 
auto completion seem to be all the rage right now.

I agree that web UI developers today need to know JS or they are far 
behind the curve.  Personally, I think JS leaves a lot to be desired as 
a language and would prefer to relegate it to being an interface 
language that isn't actually written by human beings, perhaps akin to  
postscript.  Pyjamas has the right idea language-wise, I think, although 
their widget set is lamentably primitive.  ToscaWidgets also look quite 
promising, although I haven't had the time to climb the learning curve 
and documentation is still pretty scarce.

Frankly, I think the world of the web browser and user interfaces is 
under high demand for innovation right now and will likely continue to 
change radically every year or two for a while.  The idea that everyone 
needs to know javascript will, I predict, fade in another 3 - 5 years to 
be replaced by higher level, better designed abstractions, quite likely 
abstractions which marry what runs on the user's device with what runs 
on the server such that the pairings can be specified just once, more 
akin to RPC's in past decades.  ToscaWidgets is the only thing I've 
found that appears to be moving in this direction yet, though.

FWIW, I picked ext-js for my project because I intend to make heavy use 
of the grid widget.  The licensing is a little awkward for commercial 
use, though.  So I'd recommend Dojo instead unless you really need this 
kind of grid widget.

--rich
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From bender at onsrc.com  Mon Nov  2 19:52:34 2009
From: bender at onsrc.com (RYAN DELUCCHI)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 10:52:34 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] What's a web developer?
In-Reply-To: <4AEF0C30.8040703@noir.com>
References: <e58a4bea0910251621o53cc460dqbff90b212b500597@mail.gmail.com>	<b5cbfd40910292207u23deda0ew9826363869475f1b@mail.gmail.com>	<20091102042641.GD25309@panix.com>	<5DB8BB0C-7839-45BA-BEAE-A1C7FB469B16@onsrc.com>	<72A383E3-B868-43EB-880D-F57490FC2F1A@xs4all.nl>
	<55dc209b0911020806n18cabe83v345b6ff2e9509def@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AEF0C30.8040703@noir.com>
Message-ID: <284006CF-4D91-46EE-B79B-B5251B1C23E8@onsrc.com>

> At the risk of veering too far off this forum's charter...

As long as we don't start discussing, say: "The eating habits of  
llamas", I think you're safe :-)  Besides, I think have some  
flexibility in discussion topics keeps this discussion group vibrant  
and interesting.

> Frankly, I think the world of the web browser and user interfaces is  
> under high demand for innovation right now and will likely continue  
> to change radically every year or two for a while.  The idea that  
> everyone needs to know javascript will, I predict, fade in another 3  
> - 5 years to be replaced by higher level, better designed  
> abstractions, quite likely abstractions which marry what runs on the  
> user's device with what runs on the server such that the pairings  
> can be specified just once, more akin to RPC's in past decades.

Agreed.  on the server-side (which is where I have the larger majority  
of development experience) there seems to be a growing battle between  
the use of dynamic-languages in-place of Java (Python being a prime  
example here, of course).  Whereas the client-side seems to be in the  
most flux.  The browser compatibility issue is messy and while JQuery  
seems to help, there still are issues.  I'm relatively new to client- 
side development (AJAX in particular).  So, I suspect the issues  
mostly arise from use of JavaScript outside of JQuery (whether it be  
in legacy pre-JQuery code or in JS functions that were written to fill  
in gaps within the JQuery feature-set).

> ToscaWidgets is the only thing I've found that appears to be moving  
> in this direction yet, though.

I haven't heard of this one.  Looking at the site, it doesn't *appear*  
to be a very mature library yet though.

Ryan

From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Mon Nov  2 20:03:01 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:03:01 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] What's a web developer?
In-Reply-To: <4AEF0C30.8040703@noir.com>
References: <e58a4bea0910251621o53cc460dqbff90b212b500597@mail.gmail.com>
	<b5cbfd40910292207u23deda0ew9826363869475f1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091102042641.GD25309@panix.com>
	<5DB8BB0C-7839-45BA-BEAE-A1C7FB469B16@onsrc.com>
	<72A383E3-B868-43EB-880D-F57490FC2F1A@xs4all.nl>
	<55dc209b0911020806n18cabe83v345b6ff2e9509def@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AEF0C30.8040703@noir.com>
Message-ID: <op.u2r67bv1jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>

On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 08:43:28 -0800, K. Richard Pixley <rich at noir.com>  
wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
>> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 4:21 AM, Michiel Overtoom <motoom at xs4all.nl
>> <mailto:motoom at xs4all.nl>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>     On 2 Nov 2009, at 07:30 , RYAN DELUCCHI wrote:
>>
>>         True.  but, on the other hand, I've been exposed to a lot more
>>         JS at my current gig and what *really* makes it tough are all
>>         those darned browser incompatibilities.
>>
>>
>>     May I suggest you have a look at jQuery (a JS library meant for
>>     inclusion in a webpage)?  It has lots of stuff in it that makes
>>     working with the DOM easier, and hides the browser
>>     incompatibilities for you.
>>
>>
>> Dojo does the same thing, and while not quite as popular as jQuery
>> (they're probably the top 2 JS frameworks by popularity: jQuery 11.6
>> Mhits on search, Dojo 7.7 Mhits though the latter are boosted by some
>> accidental hits;-) it was deliberately designed to be somewhat
>> Pythonic (as the designers are big fans and users of Python) -- for
>> example Dojo's underlying support for asynchronous operations rests on
>> a "deferred" object that closely mimics the one originally developed
>> as part of the popular "Twisted" Python framework for asynchronous
>> network programming.
> At the risk of veering too far off this forum's charter...
>
> I went through researching js frameworks recently looking for something
> to pair with pylons or turbogears.

IIRC there are at least as many JS frameworks as there are Python web  
frameworks ;-)

Did you have a look at YUI, Scriptaculous, or Moo.fx? I'd be interested to  
hear your thoughts...


-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)

From rich at noir.com  Mon Nov  2 20:02:53 2009
From: rich at noir.com (K. Richard Pixley)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:02:53 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] What's a web developer?
In-Reply-To: <284006CF-4D91-46EE-B79B-B5251B1C23E8@onsrc.com>
References: <e58a4bea0910251621o53cc460dqbff90b212b500597@mail.gmail.com>	<b5cbfd40910292207u23deda0ew9826363869475f1b@mail.gmail.com>	<20091102042641.GD25309@panix.com>	<5DB8BB0C-7839-45BA-BEAE-A1C7FB469B16@onsrc.com>	<72A383E3-B868-43EB-880D-F57490FC2F1A@xs4all.nl>
	<55dc209b0911020806n18cabe83v345b6ff2e9509def@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AEF0C30.8040703@noir.com>
	<284006CF-4D91-46EE-B79B-B5251B1C23E8@onsrc.com>
Message-ID: <4AEF2CDD.7000905@noir.com>

RYAN DELUCCHI wrote:
>> Frankly, I think the world of the web browser and user interfaces is 
>> under high demand for innovation right now and will likely continue 
>> to change radically every year or two for a while.  The idea that 
>> everyone needs to know javascript will, I predict, fade in another 3 
>> - 5 years to be replaced by higher level, better designed 
>> abstractions, quite likely abstractions which marry what runs on the 
>> user's device with what runs on the server such that the pairings can 
>> be specified just once, more akin to RPC's in past decades.
> Agreed.  on the server-side (which is where I have the larger majority 
> of development experience) there seems to be a growing battle between 
> the use of dynamic-languages in-place of Java (Python being a prime 
> example here, of course).  Whereas the client-side seems to be in the 
> most flux.  The browser compatibility issue is messy and while JQuery 
> seems to help, there still are issues.  I'm relatively new to 
> client-side development (AJAX in particular).  So, I suspect the 
> issues mostly arise from use of JavaScript outside of JQuery (whether 
> it be in legacy pre-JQuery code or in JS functions that were written 
> to fill in gaps within the JQuery feature-set). 
There's an interesting analog here with native windowing systems.  The 
state of javascript and browser based presentations is surprisingly 
reminiscent of the state of windowing systems back in the early 80's.  
Reading through the documentation on the javascript frameworks 
constantly reminds me of reading through the Xtk and Xw documentation 
from early X11.  That is to say, they both address extremely similar 
problems and both do so from an extremely low level, (as distinct from 
higher level abstractions).

The world of javascript frameworks hasn't yet learned to recognize how 
to simplify usage and abstractions to the most common cases while 
retaining the ability to deviate from the common cases when desired.  
(Note that python libraries generally do this quite well, although I 
haven't figure out how the official json library fits into this pattern.)

--rich

From hyperneato at gmail.com  Mon Nov  2 20:22:11 2009
From: hyperneato at gmail.com (Isaac)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 11:22:11 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] web scraping best practice question
Message-ID: <7260654a0911021122r75ccfa2o35319c283901b990@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Baypiggies.

I wrote a Python script to send a query to a single website. I am
curious: what is the best practice for the rate of sending requests
when scraping a single site? I'll have about 4000 requests.
I thought about _politely_ writing:

import random
for x in large_query_list:
? ?send_scrap_query(x)
? ?t = random.randint(1, 5)
? ?sleep(t)

to pause for a psuedo-random duration between each request- so I don't
put strain on anyone's network. Does anyone have recommendations for
best practices regarding rete of sending a set of queries? I missed
the talk about web scraping from the beginning of the year.

-Isaac

From tbelote at tombelote.com  Mon Nov  2 20:27:23 2009
From: tbelote at tombelote.com (Thomas Belote)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 11:27:23 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] web scraping best practice question
In-Reply-To: <7260654a0911021122r75ccfa2o35319c283901b990@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7260654a0911021122r75ccfa2o35319c283901b990@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BF937022-406F-4E05-957F-90D27E85D8FA@tombelote.com>

When crawling, I would also check robots.txt for the crawl-delay  
directive. Otherwise I think your rate limiting is more than  
sufficient, most search engines are often more aggressive than what  
you have below.


On Nov 2, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Isaac wrote:

> Hello Baypiggies.
>
> I wrote a Python script to send a query to a single website. I am
> curious: what is the best practice for the rate of sending requests
> when scraping a single site? I'll have about 4000 requests.
> I thought about _politely_ writing:
>
> import random
> for x in large_query_list:
>    send_scrap_query(x)
>    t = random.randint(1, 5)
>    sleep(t)
>
> to pause for a psuedo-random duration between each request- so I don't
> put strain on anyone's network. Does anyone have recommendations for
> best practices regarding rete of sending a set of queries? I missed
> the talk about web scraping from the beginning of the year.
>
> -Isaac
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From asimjalis at gmail.com  Mon Nov  2 20:28:54 2009
From: asimjalis at gmail.com (Asim Jalis)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 11:28:54 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] web scraping best practice question
In-Reply-To: <7260654a0911021122r75ccfa2o35319c283901b990@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7260654a0911021122r75ccfa2o35319c283901b990@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <88d9159a0911021128r75db6f01t5f82125d636b4622@mail.gmail.com>

Your script should also check robots.txt.

Also if you are scraping every few seconds, it is possible that the
site will eventually ban your IP (once they notice it). Or they might
not. I guess it's a risk you take.

If you want to reduce this risk, you can contact them directly and ask
them if what you are doing is okay. If your scraping ends up sending
traffic to the site they might be happy to let you scrape. Or they
might have an API that they could point you to. Or they might even pay
you.

Asim

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Isaac <hyperneato at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Baypiggies.
>
> I wrote a Python script to send a query to a single website. I am
> curious: what is the best practice for the rate of sending requests
> when scraping a single site? I'll have about 4000 requests.
> I thought about _politely_ writing:
>
> import random
> for x in large_query_list:
> ? ?send_scrap_query(x)
> ? ?t = random.randint(1, 5)
> ? ?sleep(t)
>
> to pause for a psuedo-random duration between each request- so I don't
> put strain on anyone's network. Does anyone have recommendations for
> best practices regarding rete of sending a set of queries? I missed
> the talk about web scraping from the beginning of the year.
>
> -Isaac
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From rich at noir.com  Mon Nov  2 20:35:40 2009
From: rich at noir.com (K. Richard Pixley)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:35:40 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] What's a web developer?
In-Reply-To: <op.u2r67bv1jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
References: <e58a4bea0910251621o53cc460dqbff90b212b500597@mail.gmail.com>
	<b5cbfd40910292207u23deda0ew9826363869475f1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091102042641.GD25309@panix.com>
	<5DB8BB0C-7839-45BA-BEAE-A1C7FB469B16@onsrc.com>
	<72A383E3-B868-43EB-880D-F57490FC2F1A@xs4all.nl>
	<55dc209b0911020806n18cabe83v345b6ff2e9509def@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AEF0C30.8040703@noir.com>
	<op.u2r67bv1jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
Message-ID: <4AEF348C.2070009@noir.com>

Rami Chowdhury wrote:
> Did you have a look at YUI, Scriptaculous, or Moo.fx? I'd be 
> interested to hear your thoughts...
I did.

Note that the object/classing model in javascript is sorely lacking and 
nearly all frameworks offer some level of object and inheritance 
abstraction.  This is typically leveraged as the mechanism behind their 
widget classes, (which is what leads reading about them to seem so 
reminiscent of Xtk and Xw which created object abstractions in C for X11 
and then a set of widgets which used that object abstraction.)

Scriptaculous isn't really a framework so much as it is an addition to 
Prototype for doing certain kinds of animations.  In the same way that 
many of the frameworks support or supplant Prototype, they also support 
or supplant the functionality from scriptaculous.  It's not really a 
framework alternative.

Mootools has a small, zealous community of support and many add on 
pieces.  However, the sum of those pieces is a complex, set of widgets 
without much in the way of coherence or overall design.  They lack many 
of the abilities of most of the other frameworks.  And they are fairly 
well known for being less efficient, ie, slower and more space costly 
than other frameworks.  The sole claim to fame of the moo folks is a 
superior model for object abstraction and even that seems to be arguable.

YUI seems to be a very strong base framework, with very little in the 
way of evolved widgets.  If they exist, they are not part of the 
standard package nor easy to find.  As I was looking for existing 
widgets, YUI did not seem to be the right choice for me in my recent 
project.

Depending on what you want to do, you probably want a "framework" which 
replaces the javascript object model, simplifies much of the DOM model, 
and perhaps abstracts at least one AJAX model and perhaps several.  You 
may also want a set of pre-built widgets for constructing your own 
interfaces and perhaps your own widgets.  If you intend to create all of 
your own widgets, then any of the libraries already mentioned, (except 
scriptaculous), will do.

Prototype has no widgets to speak of, nor does scriptaculous.

YUI looks to me like an excellent base for creating your own widgets, 
but a weak base for using already developed widgets.

Moo has a debatable object abstraction paradigm and a moderate library 
of widgets, although with little or no overall design to the widget 
collection.  Essentially, the widget library has evolved organically 
from the free software community around it without much structure.

Dojo seems similar in this regard, only with a much better attempt to 
catalog and simplify the official widget set.  Dojo also has a pretty 
rich widget set which rivals jquery and ext-js.

Jquery and ext-js both have rich widget sets, good documentation, and 
good demos available.  Ext-js seems to me to have the superior grid widget.

My research wasn't exhaustive so I'm sure I've missed gaping pieces of 
each of these systems and communities.  Personally, I was specifically 
looking for an all-in-one framework with a good degree of consistency, a 
strong grid widget, at least a modest but well integrated widget set, 
with easily accessible demos, good documentation, and an open source 
license so that's my bias.  For a different project, I may well have 
selected a different framework.

--rich



From rich at noir.com  Mon Nov  2 20:41:58 2009
From: rich at noir.com (K. Richard Pixley)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:41:58 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] What's a web developer?
In-Reply-To: <4AEF348C.2070009@noir.com>
References: <e58a4bea0910251621o53cc460dqbff90b212b500597@mail.gmail.com>
	<b5cbfd40910292207u23deda0ew9826363869475f1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091102042641.GD25309@panix.com>
	<5DB8BB0C-7839-45BA-BEAE-A1C7FB469B16@onsrc.com>
	<72A383E3-B868-43EB-880D-F57490FC2F1A@xs4all.nl>
	<55dc209b0911020806n18cabe83v345b6ff2e9509def@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AEF0C30.8040703@noir.com>
	<op.u2r67bv1jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<4AEF348C.2070009@noir.com>
Message-ID: <4AEF3606.4030109@noir.com>

I should probably add pyjamas.

Pyjamas has the best object abstraction hands down because it is 
literally the python object abstraction and because it allows for 
code/library reuse between the server and the client.  If I were writing 
my own widgets, I'd pick pyjamas as my framework.

However, the base widget class for pyjamas is pretty rudimentary at this 
point.  And what I was looking for was to leverage someone else's work 
on, specifically, a robust grid widget which pyjamas lacks.

--rich

From bender at onsrc.com  Mon Nov  2 20:44:52 2009
From: bender at onsrc.com (RYAN DELUCCHI)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 11:44:52 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] What's a web developer?
In-Reply-To: <4AEF3606.4030109@noir.com>
References: <e58a4bea0910251621o53cc460dqbff90b212b500597@mail.gmail.com>
	<b5cbfd40910292207u23deda0ew9826363869475f1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091102042641.GD25309@panix.com>
	<5DB8BB0C-7839-45BA-BEAE-A1C7FB469B16@onsrc.com>
	<72A383E3-B868-43EB-880D-F57490FC2F1A@xs4all.nl>
	<55dc209b0911020806n18cabe83v345b6ff2e9509def@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AEF0C30.8040703@noir.com>
	<op.u2r67bv1jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<4AEF348C.2070009@noir.com> <4AEF3606.4030109@noir.com>
Message-ID: <05CECB77-FD89-47FE-A021-F8BB1BA69533@onsrc.com>

> Pyjamas has the best object abstraction hands down because it is  
> literally the python object abstraction and because it allows for  
> code/library reuse between the server and the client.


Code reuse between server and client!?    Wow, that's *huge*.  I will  
need to look into that.  Any chance Pyjamas would work on the Google  
App Engine?

Ryan

From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Mon Nov  2 20:46:08 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:46:08 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] What's a web developer?
In-Reply-To: <4AEF348C.2070009@noir.com>
References: <e58a4bea0910251621o53cc460dqbff90b212b500597@mail.gmail.com>
	<b5cbfd40910292207u23deda0ew9826363869475f1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091102042641.GD25309@panix.com>
	<5DB8BB0C-7839-45BA-BEAE-A1C7FB469B16@onsrc.com>
	<72A383E3-B868-43EB-880D-F57490FC2F1A@xs4all.nl>
	<55dc209b0911020806n18cabe83v345b6ff2e9509def@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AEF0C30.8040703@noir.com> <op.u2r67bv1jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<4AEF348C.2070009@noir.com>
Message-ID: <op.u2r866oqjvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>

On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:35:40 -0800, K. Richard Pixley <rich at noir.com>  
wrote:

> Rami Chowdhury wrote:
>> Did you have a look at YUI, Scriptaculous, or Moo.fx? I'd be interested  
>> to hear your thoughts...
> I did.
>
> Note that the object/classing model in javascript is sorely lacking and  
> nearly all frameworks offer some level of object and inheritance  
> abstraction.  This is typically leveraged as the mechanism behind their  
> widget classes, (which is what leads reading about them to seem so  
> reminiscent of Xtk and Xw which created object abstractions in C for X11  
> and then a set of widgets which used that object abstraction.)
>
> Scriptaculous isn't really a framework so much as it is an addition to  
> Prototype for doing certain kinds of animations.  In the same way that  
> many of the frameworks support or supplant Prototype, they also support  
> or supplant the functionality from scriptaculous.  It's not really a  
> framework alternative.
>
> Mootools has a small, zealous community of support and many add on  
> pieces.  However, the sum of those pieces is a complex, set of widgets  
> without much in the way of coherence or overall design.  They lack many  
> of the abilities of most of the other frameworks.  And they are fairly  
> well known for being less efficient, ie, slower and more space costly  
> than other frameworks.  The sole claim to fame of the moo folks is a  
> superior model for object abstraction and even that seems to be arguable.
>
> YUI seems to be a very strong base framework, with very little in the  
> way of evolved widgets.  If they exist, they are not part of the  
> standard package nor easy to find.  As I was looking for existing  
> widgets, YUI did not seem to be the right choice for me in my recent  
> project.
>
> Depending on what you want to do, you probably want a "framework" which  
> replaces the javascript object model, simplifies much of the DOM model,  
> and perhaps abstracts at least one AJAX model and perhaps several.  You  
> may also want a set of pre-built widgets for constructing your own  
> interfaces and perhaps your own widgets.  If you intend to create all of  
> your own widgets, then any of the libraries already mentioned, (except  
> scriptaculous), will do.
>
> Prototype has no widgets to speak of, nor does scriptaculous.
>
> YUI looks to me like an excellent base for creating your own widgets,  
> but a weak base for using already developed widgets.
>
> Moo has a debatable object abstraction paradigm and a moderate library  
> of widgets, although with little or no overall design to the widget  
> collection.  Essentially, the widget library has evolved organically  
> from the free software community around it without much structure.
>
> Dojo seems similar in this regard, only with a much better attempt to  
> catalog and simplify the official widget set.  Dojo also has a pretty  
> rich widget set which rivals jquery and ext-js.
>
> Jquery and ext-js both have rich widget sets, good documentation, and  
> good demos available.  Ext-js seems to me to have the superior grid  
> widget.
>
> My research wasn't exhaustive so I'm sure I've missed gaping pieces of  
> each of these systems and communities.  Personally, I was specifically  
> looking for an all-in-one framework with a good degree of consistency, a  
> strong grid widget, at least a modest but well integrated widget set,  
> with easily accessible demos, good documentation, and an open source  
> license so that's my bias.  For a different project, I may well have  
> selected a different framework.
>
> --rich
>

Great summary -- thank you!



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Mon Nov  2 20:53:00 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 11:53:00 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Another Video ready
Message-ID: <e5660d770911021153i7611fdf7n99907c58d84aa7a6@mail.gmail.com>

I admit, I ripped this quickly and did *no* editing.. I don't even think the
ends are trimmed.

But, it gets the info in a usable state:

http://home.glenjarvis.com/baypiggies/200910/

You'll notice a new video for Richard's first talk for October.

Cheers,


Glen
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From DennisR at dair.com  Mon Nov  2 22:24:49 2009
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:24:49 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] web scraping best practice question
In-Reply-To: <7260654a0911021122r75ccfa2o35319c283901b990@mail.gmail.com
 >
References: <7260654a0911021122r75ccfa2o35319c283901b990@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.1362.1257197407.2803.baypiggies@python.org>

At 11:22 AM 11/2/2009, Isaac wrote:
>Does anyone have recommendations for
>best practices regarding rete of sending a set of queries?


I assume this is not your site.  You want to make sure that you only 
need to do this ONCE and do not have to repeat the process because of 
some error:

1) Save the pages you access so that if you need to re-parse, you 
have a local copy ... or you hit an error and need to reacquire.

2) try this out with, say, 25 in the list to make sure there are no 
obvious errors.  Test, test, test.

3) Show the status of what is going on so that you can effectively 
monitor that operation is normal.  If you are not going to monitor, 
consider running this in early hours to lessen impact.

4) As long as you are inserting delays, time them from the successful 
completion of the previous request rather than the initiation.  You 
should avoid creating remote zombies.

5) Simulate some error conditions before going live so that you know 
your logging allows you to go back and get those specific pages manually.

6) Evaluate how much data you are transferring (some web pages are 
very heavy).  You could be cutting heavily into the budgeted transfer 
allowed to the web site and making them incur extra bandwidth [sic] 
charges.  Not a win friends and influence people move.

Dennis 


From keith at dartworks.biz  Mon Nov  2 22:49:58 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 13:49:58 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] What's a web developer?
In-Reply-To: <4AEF3606.4030109@noir.com>
References: <e58a4bea0910251621o53cc460dqbff90b212b500597@mail.gmail.com>
	<b5cbfd40910292207u23deda0ew9826363869475f1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091102042641.GD25309@panix.com>
	<5DB8BB0C-7839-45BA-BEAE-A1C7FB469B16@onsrc.com>
	<72A383E3-B868-43EB-880D-F57490FC2F1A@xs4all.nl>
	<55dc209b0911020806n18cabe83v345b6ff2e9509def@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AEF0C30.8040703@noir.com>
	<op.u2r67bv1jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<4AEF348C.2070009@noir.com> <4AEF3606.4030109@noir.com>
Message-ID: <20091102134958.7b09dc6d@dartworks.biz>

=== On Mon, 11/02, K. Richard Pixley wrote: ===
> I should probably add pyjamas.

===

I'll just throw in a plug for Mochikit. I like it because the developer,
Bob Ippolito, is also a Python developer and many of the function names
and patterns (deferred, etc.) are similar to Python (and Twisted).
Therefore it is a little easier to move back and forth between them.

There is also a graphing add-on module that can use SVG to render
charts.

-- Keith Dart

-- 
-- --------------------
Keith Dart
<keith at dartworks.biz>
=======================

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Tue Nov  3 20:37:59 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:37:59 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [Python Job] Ouch
In-Reply-To: <5896B473-5D9D-4B66-A441-60E16CA1B45D@glenjarvis.com>
References: <5896B473-5D9D-4B66-A441-60E16CA1B45D@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <e5660d770911031137p42fe4007y6d97ad9b34f6cbb9@mail.gmail.com>

I will say it time and again. If you put yourself out there, and genuinely
do service to a community -- without ever expecting to get anything back,
you'll get *so much* back.

My work and I negotiated through this problem and, although I'm making less
money than I've ever made as a Python programmer (including the first job
where I was hired -- when I trained in Python to do the job), they were able
to meet my minimum enough to pay the bills and keep me from panhandling on
the corner of Market and Hyde "Will Hack for Food."  But, it's a good place
and we're doing cool things...

I've gotten so many replies from so many people.. You guys are great. And,
I've gotten quite a few job leads -- and some good ones :)

However, since I'm still getting emails from very cool people like you, I
thought I should kill this thread off...  I signed the offer this morning
and am now morally committed to the place that I have been contracting...


Cheers,



Glen




On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:

> As many of you know, about a year and a half ago I lost my job and I
> struggled doing contracting to stay in the Python field (I loved it that
> much). I took anything I could get my hand on, and scrambled -- I was
> desperate and a starving hacker.
>
> Then, in July, I started a contract at a local research institution. It was
> *awesome*.. I still *love* the position and they *still* seem to love me. It
> was a perfect environment because it was stable. And, when I found a mess,
> they allowed me to fix it. It was a perfect match to what I'd been looking
> for.
>
> This is only in the past tense because of a financial situation. My
> contract was running out and they created several positions with the intent
> of hiring others and possibly myself full-time. However, I just got the
> verbal offer.. ouch!  I knew it would be low... but, Ouch!  It's lower than
> my first job (Help Desk)... before I finished my degree. And, it's less than
> 10 percentile of what general application programmers get for this area (or
> most areas)... It seems my minimum to survive, budgeting tight, is higher
> than anyone in the lab currently makes..  And, the funds for contracting run
> out in a week... Have I said it yet, ouch! :)
>
> I thought I finally had it made. I thought, "I have a few more years to
> continue building my skills, while still being an ideal employee in a place
> I love." If I saw a mess, I'd fix it. If someone asked me to do something,
> I'd do it. I wasn't fussy because I got to focus on things that I liked:
> Python, Postgres and Apache for this skill set -- along with some cool
> science. It was mutual satisfaction on all sides.
>
> With that said, although I had planned to take a hit with my salary, I just
> *can't* afford to take this big of a hit. I want to either volunteer for
> them a few hours per week, or work part time. But, I have to find another at
> least a part time position -- I'd take full time too. My rate is anything
> between the 25 percentile and 75 percentile of what an application
> programmer makes in this area (that's a very large range in the middle). I
> self rate in at about 50% of the curve (and have been paid at least that
> much before).
>
>  I'm out hitting the pavement again :(
>
> I don't think I have the skills (yet) to interview at Google and I don't
> want to play that card until I have a few more years of solid work/skills
> under my belt. I have a solid year plus (almost two) of Python programming
> under my belt, and things are starting to click. I do mostly OS/subprocess
> heavy lifting and Django work, but am far from an expert. I still have my
> own business and do a Django contracting on the side, but I am not as good
> as Simeon or others on this list. And, I haven't focused on building my
> client base because I was trying to get regular employment. I'm twice as
> good as I was last year when I was interviewing. But, I still have a long
> way to go -- at least another year -- before I would consider myself even
> close to an expert.
>
> If you know of something that would be part time and let me continue what
> I'm doing at the research institution, that'd be ideal -- This is a great
> fit for a very *small* start-up. If not, I gotta pay the bills and will take
> full time work... *begs on hands and knees*
>
> To keep the list traffic manageable... please respond off list unless it's
> directly Python related and will help the general community...
>
> Thank you *so* much for listening.. I *love* this community!!!
>
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
>
>
> Glen Jarvis
> P.S. To protect the privacy of certain institutions, I have not included my
> resume in this email. I can respond to you directly if you wish.
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From glen at glenjarvis.com  Tue Nov  3 20:46:23 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:46:23 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Bioinformatics Python Programmer
In-Reply-To: <e5660d770910051836i71251da3jc701a9312593fe82@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e5660d770910051836i71251da3jc701a9312593fe82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e5660d770911031146w33d66975t854f0fa51e6e07b3@mail.gmail.com>

I've gotten several inquiries about this post the past few days. Please also
note that they were, and as far as I know, still are hiring at least one
other person. I intentionally stayed out of that loop so not to risk any
appearance of favoritism or impropriety. I don't even know the candidates
that were reviewed and was not involved in the process. So, I don't yet know
the status of that situation at all...

However, hopefully someone from our great community has applied, gets it,
and we can rock writing Python and doing science :)

I'm sorry I can't be more helpful right now.

Warmest Regards,


Glen Jarvis


On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 5:36 PM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:

> My team is looking for another programmer (yeah!)
>
> But, I must tell you, finding a fit for us here will be very difficult. You
> need to know Bioinformatics well enough to be able to to understand the
> directions given (a challenge for everyone when they start here -- even PhDs
> in this field).
>
> So, here are some basic questions to help you sort out, "should I even read
> on?"
>
> * Do you know the difference between DNA and Amino Acids? (Bonus if you
> have all the Amino Acids memorized -- I still don't)?
> * Do you know what is a gene (i.e., how is a gene different, if it is, than
> a bunch of amino acids strung together as residues)?
> * Do you know what a phylogenetic or phylogenomic tree is?
> * Do you know what I mean by a predicted 'active site' in a molecule?
> * Can you describe the shape of an amino acid (i.e., when formed and/or
> when in an environment conducive to folding)
> * Do you know what Biopython is and why it is useful?
> * Do you know what a neighbor joining tree is? (Or Maximum Likelihood Tree,
> Maximum Parsimony Tree, Quick Tree, etc.)
> * Do you know what a Pairwise Alignment is and how it differs from a
> Multiple Sequence Alignment (MSA)
> * Do you know how to lookup an accession number in Genbank? (Or Switprot?
> Or Pfam?)
>
> These are basic 101 questions, FYI.  You should know a lot more, like what
> a Baysean network and Hidden Markov Models are. You don't have to know every
> single thing listed above, but if it's all completely alien to you, you
> *will* be in for a struggle -- especially if you don't know Python/Django
> that well.
>
> What would work in our team, you may ask?  Someone incredibly proactive and
> who won't be intimidated easily. For example, if a PhD told you they needed
> something to happen, described it graphically (what it should look like),
> but not understand any of the difficulties (like databases, javascript,
> html, etc.) to make that happen, would you get frustrated, or would you make
> a plan on your own and make that happen? How could you deal with the
> frustration if the PhD didn't understand what was taking so long because
> they're focused on the result instead of infrastructure, how would you
> address this proactively?
>
> Can you read incredibly messy old HTML, JavaScript and Perl code, but write
> incredibly pristine python/django/jquery code, and do it quickly? That is,
> can you write code that JJ would give a thumb's up too, and write it
> quickly? [JJ isn't involved in this job, I just use his high standards as my
> internal barometer in my own code. I've not yet written code that JJ hasn't
> found a problem with (good for me - I'm learning every time he does a code
> review with me).]
>
> Are you willing to take an incredibly low salary (comparatively) because
> you're that interested in science, working for an very well known research
> facility, etc?
>
> I'm not asking the impossible - I fit the criteria above and will be
> working along side you (as well as one other). I struggle with some of these
> things a lot too. There are times it feels like a Dilbert cartoon here --
> but, at the end of the day, we're doing some pretty awesome things. You'll
> get frustrated at the old system and how bad it is (PHP writing HTML writing
> JavaScript writing HTML (Forms) writing more JavaScript writing
> lord-knows-what at times). You won't be able to pull on all the old threads
> (somethings can't yet be changed for fear of damaging processes no one knows
> about).
>
> We're building a new system that mimics the functionality of the old system
> - but clean and organized and well tuned. You'll be doing Python and Django,
> but will probably also need to know a good deal of HTML, JavaScript, JQuery,
> etc in the web stack. (I don't know JavaScript and JQuery that well, but I'm
> working on it). Also, the new system is, thus far, organized/clean/and a joy
> to create.
>
> It's tough to find someone who's a good fit -- and willing to do this. But,
> if you're looking and want to talk to me about it, I can help you figure out
> if this is a position you may be interested in or not. I mean, heck, you got
> this far, didn't ya :)
>
> I'm not a recruiter -- just looking for a python peer who would be
> excellent to work with.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Glen
>
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From bender at onsrc.com  Tue Nov  3 21:00:40 2009
From: bender at onsrc.com (RYAN DELUCCHI)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 12:00:40 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Bioinformatics Python Programmer
In-Reply-To: <e5660d770911031146w33d66975t854f0fa51e6e07b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e5660d770910051836i71251da3jc701a9312593fe82@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5660d770911031146w33d66975t854f0fa51e6e07b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6B533672-079E-4FDE-98F1-8BBD9AD56279@onsrc.com>

Congrats!  Yes: that sounds like a good time.

Ryan


On Nov 3, 2009, at 11:46 AM, Glen Jarvis wrote:

> I've gotten several inquiries about this post the past few days.  
> Please also note that they were, and as far as I know, still are  
> hiring at least one other person. I intentionally stayed out of that  
> loop so not to risk any appearance of favoritism or impropriety. I  
> don't even know the candidates that were reviewed and was not  
> involved in the process. So, I don't yet know the status of that  
> situation at all...
>
> However, hopefully someone from our great community has applied,  
> gets it, and we can rock writing Python and doing science :)
>
> I'm sorry I can't be more helpful right now.
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
>
> Glen Jarvis
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 5:36 PM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com>  
> wrote:
> My team is looking for another programmer (yeah!)
>
> But, I must tell you, finding a fit for us here will be very  
> difficult. You need to know Bioinformatics well enough to be able to  
> to understand the directions given (a challenge for everyone when  
> they start here -- even PhDs in this field).
>
> So, here are some basic questions to help you sort out, "should I  
> even read on?"
>
> * Do you know the difference between DNA and Amino Acids? (Bonus if  
> you have all the Amino Acids memorized -- I still don't)?
> * Do you know what is a gene (i.e., how is a gene different, if it  
> is, than a bunch of amino acids strung together as residues)?
> * Do you know what a phylogenetic or phylogenomic tree is?
> * Do you know what I mean by a predicted 'active site' in a molecule?
> * Can you describe the shape of an amino acid (i.e., when formed and/ 
> or when in an environment conducive to folding)
> * Do you know what Biopython is and why it is useful?
> * Do you know what a neighbor joining tree is? (Or Maximum  
> Likelihood Tree, Maximum Parsimony Tree, Quick Tree, etc.)
> * Do you know what a Pairwise Alignment is and how it differs from a  
> Multiple Sequence Alignment (MSA)
> * Do you know how to lookup an accession number in Genbank? (Or  
> Switprot? Or Pfam?)
>
> These are basic 101 questions, FYI.  You should know a lot more,  
> like what a Baysean network and Hidden Markov Models are. You don't  
> have to know every single thing listed above, but if it's all  
> completely alien to you, you *will* be in for a struggle --  
> especially if you don't know Python/Django that well.
>
> What would work in our team, you may ask?  Someone incredibly  
> proactive and who won't be intimidated easily. For example, if a PhD  
> told you they needed something to happen, described it graphically  
> (what it should look like), but not understand any of the  
> difficulties (like databases, javascript, html, etc.) to make that  
> happen, would you get frustrated, or would you make a plan on your  
> own and make that happen? How could you deal with the frustration if  
> the PhD didn't understand what was taking so long because they're  
> focused on the result instead of infrastructure, how would you  
> address this proactively?
>
> Can you read incredibly messy old HTML, JavaScript and Perl code,  
> but write incredibly pristine python/django/jquery code, and do it  
> quickly? That is, can you write code that JJ would give a thumb's up  
> too, and write it quickly? [JJ isn't involved in this job, I just  
> use his high standards as my internal barometer in my own code. I've  
> not yet written code that JJ hasn't found a problem with (good for  
> me - I'm learning every time he does a code review with me).]
>
> Are you willing to take an incredibly low salary (comparatively)  
> because you're that interested in science, working for an very well  
> known research facility, etc?
>
> I'm not asking the impossible - I fit the criteria above and will be  
> working along side you (as well as one other). I struggle with some  
> of these things a lot too. There are times it feels like a Dilbert  
> cartoon here -- but, at the end of the day, we're doing some pretty  
> awesome things. You'll get frustrated at the old system and how bad  
> it is (PHP writing HTML writing JavaScript writing HTML (Forms)  
> writing more JavaScript writing lord-knows-what at times). You won't  
> be able to pull on all the old threads (somethings can't yet be  
> changed for fear of damaging processes no one knows about).
>
> We're building a new system that mimics the functionality of the old  
> system - but clean and organized and well tuned. You'll be doing  
> Python and Django, but will probably also need to know a good deal  
> of HTML, JavaScript, JQuery, etc in the web stack. (I don't know  
> JavaScript and JQuery that well, but I'm working on it). Also, the  
> new system is, thus far, organized/clean/and a joy to create.
>
> It's tough to find someone who's a good fit -- and willing to do  
> this. But, if you're looking and want to talk to me about it, I can  
> help you figure out if this is a position you may be interested in  
> or not. I mean, heck, you got this far, didn't ya :)
>
> I'm not a recruiter -- just looking for a python peer who would be  
> excellent to work with.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Glen
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Tue Nov  3 21:18:11 2009
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 12:18:11 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [ANN] A discussion with Guido at the Berkeley
	Py4Science seminar
Message-ID: <db6b5ecc0911031218h671d0d42k8eea040959f83e98@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

if you reside in the San Francisco Bay Area, you may be interested in
a meeting we'll be having tomorrow November 4 (2-4 pm), as part of our
regular py4science meeting series.  Guido van Rossum, the creator of
the Python language, will visit for a session where we will first do a
very rapid overview of a number of scientific projects that use Python
(in a lightning talk format) and then we will have an open discussion
with Guido with hopefully interesting questions going in both
directions.  The meeting is open to all, bring your questions!

More details on this seminar series (including location) can be found here:

https://cirl.berkeley.edu/view/Py4Science

Cheers,

f

From echerlin at gmail.com  Tue Nov  3 22:21:41 2009
From: echerlin at gmail.com (Edward Cherlin)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 13:21:41 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [ANN] A discussion with Guido at the Berkeley
	Py4Science seminar
In-Reply-To: <db6b5ecc0911031218h671d0d42k8eea040959f83e98@mail.gmail.com>
References: <db6b5ecc0911031218h671d0d42k8eea040959f83e98@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e574f6eb0911031321k7597e258jbff7666c26a29b95@mail.gmail.com>

I don't see anything about the location on that page or the calendar wiki page.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 12:18, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> if you reside in the San Francisco Bay Area, you may be interested in
> a meeting we'll be having tomorrow November 4 (2-4 pm), as part of our
> regular py4science meeting series. ?Guido van Rossum, the creator of
> the Python language, will visit for a session where we will first do a
> very rapid overview of a number of scientific projects that use Python
> (in a lightning talk format) and then we will have an open discussion
> with Guido with hopefully interesting questions going in both
> directions. ?The meeting is open to all, bring your questions!
>
> More details on this seminar series (including location) can be found here:
>
> https://cirl.berkeley.edu/view/Py4Science
>
> Cheers,
>
> f
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
Edward Mokurai (??/???????????????/????????????? ?) Cherlin
Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
http://www.earthtreasury.org/

From fperez.net at gmail.com  Tue Nov  3 22:24:29 2009
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 13:24:29 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [ANN] A discussion with Guido at the Berkeley
	Py4Science seminar
In-Reply-To: <e574f6eb0911031321k7597e258jbff7666c26a29b95@mail.gmail.com>
References: <db6b5ecc0911031218h671d0d42k8eea040959f83e98@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e574f6eb0911031321k7597e258jbff7666c26a29b95@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <db6b5ecc0911031324u1825727eiec4a3ecfe75bd032@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Edward Cherlin <echerlin at gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't see anything about the location on that page or the calendar wiki page.

Workflow

Fall 2009: We meet every two weeks on Wednesdays at 2pm, at the
Redwood Center's conference room: 508-20 Evans Hall (5th floor).

Evans Hall is a Berkeley campus building, here's a link to campus maps
in various formats:

http://berkeley.edu/map/

Cheers,

f

From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Tue Nov  3 23:04:12 2009
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 23:04:12 +0100
Subject: [Baypiggies] web scraping best practice question
In-Reply-To: <20091102213051.D6D1E3C3DF@mailwash16.pair.com>
References: <7260654a0911021122r75ccfa2o35319c283901b990@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091102213051.D6D1E3C3DF@mailwash16.pair.com>
Message-ID: <64A8E46A-F560-4E9B-8D87-AF16A7E37A40@dalkescientific.com>

On Nov 2, 2009, at 10:24 PM, Dennis Reinhardt wrote:
> 1) Save the pages you access so that if you need to re-parse, you  
> have a local copy ... or you hit an error and need to reacquire.

For one project, what I did for this was set up Squid reverse proxy,  
and configured it to keep all pages for a few hours. In that way I  
could test nearly everything, including HTTP error codes, without  
having to do a separate file I/O interface and without hitting the  
remote server hard while I was debugging things. The only change in  
my code was setting http_proxy.


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Nov  4 14:42:37 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 05:42:37 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [JOB] Developer/SysAdmin @ Egnyte
Message-ID: <20091104134236.GA2903@panix.com>

We're still looking for a developer with sysadmin skills to help us
deploy software on NAS boxes.  Basically, our rock-bottom minimum is a
year of Python and the ability to build .rpm and .deb packages, plus
enough general experience to take charge of a project (i.e. this is not
a junior position, but we're looking more for someone with a good
background than specific skills).

For more info, ask me or apply to jobs at egnyte.com

http://www.egnyte.com/
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

[on old computer technologies and programmers]  "Fancy tail fins on a
brand new '59 Cadillac didn't mean throwing out a whole generation of
mechanics who started with model As."  --Andrew Dalke

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Nov  5 00:53:47 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 15:53:47 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] PyCon 2010: Poster sessions
Message-ID: <20091104235347.GA16733@panix.com>

PyCon 2010: Poster sessions
===============================================================

Due date: November 30, 2009

PyCon 2010 introduces a new type of presentation, the poster session.
Poster sessions consist of two pieces:

* A display space where you can put up information about a topic

* Live Q&A during a plenary timeslot where people can get more
information from you while you stand next to your display

For more information and to submit a poster proposal, visit
http://us.pycon.org/2010/conference/posters/
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

[on old computer technologies and programmers]  "Fancy tail fins on a
brand new '59 Cadillac didn't mean throwing out a whole generation of
mechanics who started with model As."  --Andrew Dalke

From millman at berkeley.edu  Thu Nov  5 11:57:28 2009
From: millman at berkeley.edu (Jarrod Millman)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 02:57:28 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] ANN: SciPy India 2009 Call for Presentations
Message-ID: <c7009a550911050257v5ab83166g4bb6d240fa86692b@mail.gmail.com>

Call for Presentations
======================

The SciPy India 2009 Program Committee is currently developing the conference
program.  We are seeking presentations from industry as well as the
academic world.

We look forward to hearing your recent breakthroughs using Python! Please
read the full `call for papers <http://scipy.in/talks-cfp/>`_.

SciPy India 2009 Conference
---------------------------

The first `SciPy India Conference <http://scipy.in>`_ will be held
from December 12th to 17th, 2009 at the `Technopark in Trivandrum
<http://www.technopark.org/>`_, Kerala, India.

The theme of the conference will be "Scientific Python in Action" with
respect to application and teaching.  We are pleased to have Travis
Oliphant, the creator and lead developer of `numpy
<http://numpy.scipy.org>`_ as the keynote speaker.

Please register `here <http://scipy.in>`_.

Important Dates
---------------

* Friday, Nov. 20: Abstracts Due
* Friday, Nov. 27: Announce accepted talks, post schedule
* Saturday-Sunday, Dec. 12-13               Conference
* Monday-Tuesday, Dec. 14-15        Tutorials
* Wednesday-Thursday, Dec. 16-17     Sprints

Organizers
----------

* Jarrod Millman, Neuroscience Institute, UC Berkeley, USA (Conference Co-Chair)
* Prabhu Ramachandran, Department of Aerospace Engineering,
 IIT Bombay, India (Conference Co-Chair)
* FOSSEE Team

Sponsors
--------

* National Mission On Education through ICT - Ministry of Human
Resource Development, Government of India
* SPACE-Kerala (India)
* Kerala State IT Mission(KSITM)
* SIG-FOSS Of CSI

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Thu Nov  5 21:17:26 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 12:17:26 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Death in the Python community... :(
Message-ID: <e5660d770911051217t18b90079o22e6b0e720b0a2ec@mail.gmail.com>

The creator of PyMol has passed away. :(


https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=ind0911&L=CCP4BB&T=0&F=&S=&P=36074
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From keith at dartworks.biz  Fri Nov  6 07:31:57 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 22:31:57 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] What's a web developer?
In-Reply-To: <20091102134958.7b09dc6d@dartworks.biz>
References: <e58a4bea0910251621o53cc460dqbff90b212b500597@mail.gmail.com>
	<b5cbfd40910292207u23deda0ew9826363869475f1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091102042641.GD25309@panix.com>
	<5DB8BB0C-7839-45BA-BEAE-A1C7FB469B16@onsrc.com>
	<72A383E3-B868-43EB-880D-F57490FC2F1A@xs4all.nl>
	<55dc209b0911020806n18cabe83v345b6ff2e9509def@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AEF0C30.8040703@noir.com>
	<op.u2r67bv1jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<4AEF348C.2070009@noir.com> <4AEF3606.4030109@noir.com>
	<20091102134958.7b09dc6d@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <20091105223157.40f75a88@dartworks.biz>

=== On Mon, 11/02, Keith Dart wrote: ===
> I'll just throw in a plug for Mochikit.
===

Or, perhaps even better, this new development:

http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2009/11/introducing-closure-tools.html

It's server agnostic, so back-ends can still be written in Python.

-- Keith Dart

-- 
-- --------------------
Keith Dart
<keith at dartworks.biz>
=======================

From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Nov  6 13:19:56 2009
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 04:19:56 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [ANN] A discussion with Guido at the Berkeley
	Py4Science seminar
In-Reply-To: <db6b5ecc0911031218h671d0d42k8eea040959f83e98@mail.gmail.com>
References: <db6b5ecc0911031218h671d0d42k8eea040959f83e98@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <db6b5ecc0911060419h2273f0a6s1657c8877579c9c8@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
> if you reside in the San Francisco Bay Area, you may be interested in
> a meeting we'll be having tomorrow November 4 (2-4 pm), as part of our
> regular py4science meeting series. ?Guido van Rossum, the creator of
> the Python language, will visit for a session where we will first do a
> very rapid overview of a number of scientific projects that use Python
> (in a lightning talk format) and then we will have an open discussion
> with Guido with hopefully interesting questions going in both
> directions. ?The meeting is open to all, bring your questions!

Video of the event:
http://www.archive.org/details/ucb_py4science_2009_11_04_Guido_van_Rossum

Slides: http://fperez.org/py4science/2009_guido_ucb/index.html

A few blog posts about it:

- Guido: http://neopythonic.blogspot.com/2009/11/python-in-scientific-world.html

- Jarrod: http://jarrodmillman.blogspot.com/2009/11/visit-from-guido-van-rossum.html

- Matthew: http://nipyworld.blogspot.com/2009/11/guido-van-rossum-talks-about-python-3.html

- Me: http://fdoperez.blogspot.com/2009/11/guido-van-rossum-at-uc-berkeleys.html

Attendance was excellent (standing room only, and I saw some people
leave because it was too full). Many thanks to all the presenters!

Cheers,

f

From luca.pellicoro at gmail.com  Fri Nov  6 19:57:33 2009
From: luca.pellicoro at gmail.com (Luca Pellicoro)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 10:57:33 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [JOB] Web QA Tester with Python experience (coming
	from the trenches)
Message-ID: <b16f77670911061057r42bcd31ek201f2b0ce9f6f198@mail.gmail.com>

Leaving the company... below is the ad for my soon-to-be vacant
position. If you have specific questions, feel free to ask privately.

=====================================

Position: Web QA Tester
Location: Gazillion-San Mateo / San Francisco, CA

Job Description:
Web QA Tester

Description
Gazillion is looking for a motivated Senior Web Tester with strong
technical background with experience in testing and scripting
knowledge.
Responsibilities
-Design and implement processes for QA.
- Participate as a team member in testing, analysis, process
management to identify issues and risks
- Good grasp of testing concepts and methodologies
- Ability to work on multiple concurrent tasks/projects
-?Develop comprehensive domain knowledge to deeply understand user
expectations and objectives to devise scenario based testing of the
end to end functionality.
-?Add and modify test scripts for automated test suites. Organize and
maintain build automation tests.
- Build, maintain, and extend regression and automation suites
- Hands on Experience with bug tracking system
- Ensure defects are logged correctly and tracked through closure.
-Will work closely with Engineering to understand the Product
Architecture and work on identifying, designing or enhancing existing
test frameworks to support backend automation testing.
?Essential skills
-Solid understanding of web technologies and web application is required
-3+ years experience of Web application QA experience
-3+ years experience in black box testing and backend automation testing
- Must be fluent in scripting preferably Python
-?Experience with evaluation, extension and configuration of open
source test frameworks.
?- Experience in regression and automated unit test development.
- Strong scripting skills (preferably Python) with 1-3 years of
overall testing and/or development ????experience
-?Working knowledge about source version control and SQL databases.
-Understanding of web technologies with experience in HTML, XML,
Flash, JavaScript and Python
-Experience using Selenium or other automation tools
-In depth understanding of the Product Release Process and QA goals,
functions and deliverables
-Ability to work in a fast paced hosted environment
-Bachelors Degree.
?Bonus Points
?-2+ years of experience with SQL and XML for data generation and data
validation required.
?-?Hands-on experience with backend testing with good RDBMS (SQL) knowledge
?- GUI development experience using scripting UI toolkits. (Ex: QT,
wxPython, Tk)

Apply here:
http://www.gazillion.com/careers/

From joelvanderkwaak at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  6 20:59:21 2009
From: joelvanderkwaak at yahoo.com (Joel VanderKwaak)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 11:59:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Fw: pydoop -- Python MapReduce and HDFS API for Hadoop
Message-ID: <691515.53282.qm@web50701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

fyi - I haven't used it, and can't comment ;)



----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Simone Leo <simone.leo at crs4.it>
To: general at hadoop.apache.org
Sent: Fri, November 6, 2009 9:20:36 AM
Subject: pydoop -- Python MapReduce and HDFS API for Hadoop

Hello everybody,

we recently released pydoop, a Python MapReduce and HDFS API for Hadoop:

http://pydoop.sourceforge.net

It is implemented as a Boost.Python wrapper around the C++ code (pipes
and libhdfs). It allows you to write complete MapReduce application in
CPython, with the same capabilities as the C++ API. Here is a minimal
wordcount example:


from pydoop.pipes import Mapper, Reducer, Factory, runTask

class WordCountMapper(Mapper):

  def __init__(self, context):
    super(WordCountMapper, self).__init__(context)

  def map(self, context):
    words = context.getInputValue().split()
    for w in words:
      context.emit(w, "1")

class WordCountReducer(Reducer):

  def __init__(self, context):
    super(WordCountReducer, self).__init__(context)

  def reduce(self, context):
    s = 0
    while context.nextValue():
      s += int(context.getInputValue())
    context.emit(context.getInputKey(), str(s))

runTask(Factory(WordCountMapper, WordCountReducer))


Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

-- 
Simone Leo
Distributed Computing group
Advanced Computing and Communications program
CRS4
POLARIS - Building #1
Piscina Manna
I-09010 Pula (CA) - Italy
e-mail: simleo at crs4.it
http://www.crs4.it
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Nov  6 22:15:47 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 13:15:47 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] MS research on code quality
Message-ID: <20091106211547.GA24873@panix.com>

http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/news/features/nagappan-100609.aspx
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

[on old computer technologies and programmers]  "Fancy tail fins on a
brand new '59 Cadillac didn't mean throwing out a whole generation of
mechanics who started with model As."  --Andrew Dalke

From alecf at flett.org  Fri Nov  6 22:19:56 2009
From: alecf at flett.org (Alec Flett)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 14:19:56 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Fw: pydoop -- Python MapReduce and HDFS API for
	Hadoop
In-Reply-To: <691515.53282.qm@web50701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <691515.53282.qm@web50701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c78d65270911061319n366c378v336ef9d5672edc63@mail.gmail.com>

FWIW, Metaweb released it's Python Hadoop library as well, called "Happy"

http://code.google.com/p/happy/

(though it looks like it hasn't been updated in a while, I know there has
been ongoing developments internally including support for Python 2.5)

Alec

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Joel VanderKwaak <joelvanderkwaak at yahoo.com
> wrote:

> fyi - I haven't used it, and can't comment ;)
>
> ----- Forwarded Message ----
> *From:* Simone Leo <simone.leo at crs4.it>
> *To:* general at hadoop.apache.org
> *Sent:* Fri, November 6, 2009 9:20:36 AM
> *Subject:* pydoop -- Python MapReduce and HDFS API for Hadoop
>
> Hello everybody,
>
> we recently released pydoop, a Python MapReduce and HDFS API for Hadoop:
>
> http://pydoop.sourceforge.net
>
> It is implemented as a Boost.Python wrapper around the C++ code (pipes
> and libhdfs). It allows you to write complete MapReduce application in
> CPython, with the same capabilities as the C++ API. Here is a minimal
> wordcount example:
>
>
> from pydoop.pipes import Mapper, Reducer, Factory, runTask
>
> class WordCountMapper(Mapper):
>
>   def __init__(self, context):
>     super(WordCountMapper, self).__init__(context)
>
>   def map(self, context):
>     words = context.getInputValue().split()
>     for w in words:
>       context.emit(w, "1")
>
> class WordCountReducer(Reducer):
>
>   def __init__(self, context):
>     super(WordCountReducer, self).__init__(context)
>
>   def reduce(self, context):
>     s = 0
>     while context.nextValue():
>       s += int(context.getInputValue())
>     context.emit(context.getInputKey(), str(s))
>
> runTask(Factory(WordCountMapper, WordCountReducer))
>
>
> Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
>
> --
> Simone Leo
> Distributed Computing group
> Advanced Computing and Communications program
> CRS4
> POLARIS - Building #1
> Piscina Manna
> I-09010 Pula (CA) - Italy
> e-mail: simleo at crs4.it
> http://www.crs4.it
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From keith at dartworks.biz  Fri Nov  6 22:35:40 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 13:35:40 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] MS research on code quality
In-Reply-To: <20091106211547.GA24873@panix.com>
References: <20091106211547.GA24873@panix.com>
Message-ID: <20091106133540.2308e62f@dartworks.biz>

=== On Fri, 11/06, Aahz wrote: ===
> http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/news/features/nagappan-100609.aspx
> -
===

That's a joke, right? ;-)

-- Keith Dart

-- 
-- --------------------
Keith Dart
<keith at dartworks.biz>
=======================

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Nov  6 22:40:47 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 13:40:47 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] MS research on code quality
In-Reply-To: <20091106133540.2308e62f@dartworks.biz>
References: <20091106211547.GA24873@panix.com>
	<20091106133540.2308e62f@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <20091106214047.GA18974@panix.com>

On Fri, Nov 06, 2009, Keith Dart wrote:
> === On Fri, 11/06, Aahz wrote: ===
>>
>> http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/news/features/nagappan-100609.aspx
> 
> That's a joke, right? ;-)

Consider this: Microsoft has lots of poor-quality code to research
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

[on old computer technologies and programmers]  "Fancy tail fins on a
brand new '59 Cadillac didn't mean throwing out a whole generation of
mechanics who started with model As."  --Andrew Dalke

From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  6 23:44:32 2009
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 14:44:32 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: Bioinformatics Programming Using Python: Rough
	Cut Edition
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0911061444n54d3664dxb968034eebe453cc@mail.gmail.com>

Given the recent list discussions on Bioinformatics...
Is anyone interested in this book?

It's still in "Rough Cut"  (early) form, but Oreilly is trying to get me
some Safari preview codes to give out.

On that note, if/when the book is ready who would be interested in writing a
review?
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From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Sat Nov  7 01:21:20 2009
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 16:21:20 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Bioinformatics Programming Using Python: Rough Cut
	Edition
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0911061444n54d3664dxb968034eebe453cc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8249c4ac0911061444n54d3664dxb968034eebe453cc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0911061621n439f471eme33124bac4be3dab@mail.gmail.com>

Ok- I've got plenty of volunteers for this Rough Cut & book.
Thanks to those who replied so quickly, no more replies are necessary!


Thanks
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From john_re at fastmail.us  Sat Nov  7 02:05:12 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:05:12 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: Re: [ANN] A discussion with Guido at the Berkeley
 Py4Science seminar
Message-ID: <1257555912.24574.1344001047@webmail.messagingengine.com>

This will be one of the videos for tomorrow, Nov 7 BTIP global meeting.  Watch it! :)  
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/

SciPy folks - come to the BTIP meetig Sat ZNov 7, tomorrow, 12n-3p, & share with us your knowledge & thoughts re this talk. :)


----- Original message -----
From: "Fernando Perez" <fperez.net at gmail.com>
To: "Baypiggies" <baypiggies at python.org>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 04:19:56 -0800
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] [ANN] A discussion with Guido at the Berkeley	Py4Science seminar

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
> if you reside in the San Francisco Bay Area, you may be interested in
> a meeting we'll be having tomorrow November 4 (2-4 pm), as part of our
> regular py4science meeting series. ?Guido van Rossum, the creator of
> the Python language, will visit for a session where we will first do a
> very rapid overview of a number of scientific projects that use Python
> (in a lightning talk format) and then we will have an open discussion
> with Guido with hopefully interesting questions going in both
> directions. ?The meeting is open to all, bring your questions!

Video of the event:
http://www.archive.org/details/ucb_py4science_2009_11_04_Guido_van_Rossum

Slides: http://fperez.org/py4science/2009_guido_ucb/index.html

A few blog posts about it:

- Guido: http://neopythonic.blogspot.com/2009/11/python-in-scientific-world.html

- Jarrod: http://jarrodmillman.blogspot.com/2009/11/visit-from-guido-van-rossum.html

- Matthew: http://nipyworld.blogspot.com/2009/11/guido-van-rossum-talks-about-python-3.html

- Me: http://fdoperez.blogspot.com/2009/11/guido-van-rossum-at-uc-berkeleys.html

Attendance was excellent (standing room only, and I saw some people
leave because it was too full). Many thanks to all the presenters!

Cheers,

f
_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
Baypiggies at python.org
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

From jjinux at gmail.com  Sat Nov  7 07:17:50 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 22:17:50 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Suicide
Message-ID: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>

My friend committed suicide. He was a brilliant programmer, and he had
everything going for him. He was very successful.

I'm crushed because I know I could have helped if only he had given me
a chance. He never did.

We in the programming world aren't always the most emotionally
balanced. I know of three others who took their lives in the
programming world. I've hinted at this before on my Bipolar Lisp
Programmer post
<http://jjinux.blogspot.com/2008/05/bipolar-lisp-programmer.html>. To
compound matters, our society has been moving away from personal
interaction and responsibility for decades, leading to a culture that
is toxic.

Mother Theresa said that the greatest poverty that she ever saw was to
see people who felt unloved. If your friends are feeling unloved,
please reach out to them. We are each far more loved than we think. In
the programming world, it's so easy to get caught up in petty
struggles, like Pylons vs. Django, Ruby vs. Python, free software vs.
open source, Linux vs. pretty much everything else ;) What we forget
is that we're all people with hopes and dreams, fears and
insecurities. We're all trying to change the world, but as Mother
Theresa said, "In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do
small things with great love."

Look out for each other, but if you have no where to turn, contact me!
Call me directly at (925) 209-6439. Don't consider the middle of the
night an inconvenience. When else am I going to work with five kids
around ;) I will do everything I can to help. I don't want to wake up
on another day to find another brilliant mind missing from this great
community of thinkers. We are a community and we are only as great as
the individuals that thrive and share with one another in that
community. Everyone contributes, whether in small ways or large, and
every loss is felt by more people than we consider in our moments of
darkness.

-jj

-- 
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From sfseth at gmail.com  Sat Nov  7 07:58:08 2009
From: sfseth at gmail.com (Seth Friedman)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 22:58:08 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Suicide
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <64e45fca0911062258l43910910r5a2e3e15187eda6f@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for the sensitive comments.    I am sorry to hear about your
friend.

I've felt that in the mainstreaming of software as business, it has become
less humane of a field to work in.  It's too easy to ignore what this does
to people as individuals.   It is clearly not a zero negative effect.

Personally I have thought it high time to take a moment to think about ideas
like civility in work.   Basic ideas.   But ones that should not be lost.

Hopefully there are things like community, such as this one, that can temper
the seemingly increasingly harsh realities that exist.

~seth

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com>wrote:

> My friend committed suicide. He was a brilliant programmer, and he had
> everything going for him. He was very successful.
>
> I'm crushed because I know I could have helped if only he had given me
> a chance. He never did.
>
> We in the programming world aren't always the most emotionally
> balanced. I know of three others who took their lives in the
> programming world. I've hinted at this before on my Bipolar Lisp
> Programmer post
> <http://jjinux.blogspot.com/2008/05/bipolar-lisp-programmer.html>. To
> compound matters, our society has been moving away from personal
> interaction and responsibility for decades, leading to a culture that
> is toxic.
>
> Mother Theresa said that the greatest poverty that she ever saw was to
> see people who felt unloved. If your friends are feeling unloved,
> please reach out to them. We are each far more loved than we think. In
> the programming world, it's so easy to get caught up in petty
> struggles, like Pylons vs. Django, Ruby vs. Python, free software vs.
> open source, Linux vs. pretty much everything else ;) What we forget
> is that we're all people with hopes and dreams, fears and
> insecurities. We're all trying to change the world, but as Mother
> Theresa said, "In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do
> small things with great love."
>
> Look out for each other, but if you have no where to turn, contact me!
> Call me directly at (925) 209-6439. Don't consider the middle of the
> night an inconvenience. When else am I going to work with five kids
> around ;) I will do everything I can to help. I don't want to wake up
> on another day to find another brilliant mind missing from this great
> community of thinkers. We are a community and we are only as great as
> the individuals that thrive and share with one another in that
> community. Everyone contributes, whether in small ways or large, and
> every loss is felt by more people than we consider in our moments of
> darkness.
>
> -jj
>
> --
> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Sat Nov  7 08:30:28 2009
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 23:30:28 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Looking for Ross Parlette
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0911062330y6f6a5311y5dee9b7b838165ea@mail.gmail.com>

If anyone has contact info for Ross Parlette, would you contact me off-list?
His email address don't seem to work.

Thanks
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From john_re at fastmail.us  Sat Nov  7 09:10:33 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 00:10:33 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Put talk description in that folder - Re: Another
 Video ready
In-Reply-To: <e5660d770911021153i7611fdf7n99907c58d84aa7a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e5660d770911021153i7611fdf7n99907c58d84aa7a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1257581433.14401.1344027923@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Great work, Glen :)

Suggestion: Please always put each talk description in the directory where the video is.  When someone (I) look up videos at links (see the end of the page for the source link list for videos: http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos ) if the description isn't there, the searcher might not have the time, or energy, to search out the source link.

So, your archive is currently great to help the local community who knows about your effort, but might be less accessible to the 99% of the python world who sin't familiar with baypiggies, & your effort.




On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 11:53:00 -0800, "Glen Jarvis" <glen at glenjarvis.com> said:
> I admit, I ripped this quickly and did *no* editing.. I don't even think
> the
> ends are trimmed.
> 
> But, it gets the info in a usable state:
> 
> http://home.glenjarvis.com/baypiggies/200910/
> 
> You'll notice a new video for Richard's first talk for October.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> Glen

From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Sat Nov  7 09:19:42 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 00:19:42 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Suicide
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200911070019.42201.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>

On Friday 06 November 2009 22:17:50 Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> My friend committed suicide. He was a brilliant programmer, and he had
> everything going for him. He was very successful.

My sincere condolences -- if there's any way I / we can help you out, please 
let me / us know.

> I'm crushed because I know I could have helped if only he had given me
> a chance. 

I wish that were always true :-( Sometimes there isn't much anyone can do.
 
> We are a community and we are only as great as
> the individuals that thrive and share with one another in that
> community. Everyone contributes, whether in small ways or large, and
> every loss is felt by more people than we consider in our moments of
> darkness.

A great sentiment -- thank you, JJ, for reminding us we're all part of 
something bigger. 

> I don't want to wake up
> on another day to find another brilliant mind missing from this great
> community of thinkers.

Nor do I. If anyone needs to talk to someone, they can call me too: +1 408 597 
7068. 

----
Rami Chowdhury
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison 
involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." -- Godwin's Law
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)

From john_re at fastmail.us  Sat Nov  7 13:03:50 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 04:03:50 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Nov 7 TODAY & Nov 22 - Join Global Python FreeSW
 GNU(Linux) HW Culture meeting via VOIP - BerkeleyTIP GlobalTIP - For
 Forwarding
Message-ID: <1257595430.3312.1344041119@webmail.messagingengine.com>

CONTENTS: Meeting days/times & Howto - Mark your calendar's dates;
Videos; Hot topics; Opportunities; Announcement Flyers; New webpages

=====
Come join in with the Global Free SW HW & Culture community at the
BerkeleyTIP/GlobalTIP meeting, via VOIP.

Two meetings this month:
Sat Nov 7,  12Noon - 3PM Pacific Time (=UTC-8)
Sun Nov 22, 12Noon - 3PM Pacific Time (=UTC-8)
Mark your calendars, 1st Sat, 3rd Sun every month.
  {Note: 4th Sunday this November, to give 2 week spacing.}

Join online #berkeleytip on irc.freenode.net
& we'll help you get your voip HW & SW working:
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance
Or come to the FreeSpeech Cafe at UC Berkeley in person meeting.

Join the global mailing list
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal

I hope to see you there. :)


=====  Talk Videos for November 2009:
Django Development  - Richard Kiss, Eddy Mulyono, Glen Jarvis, Simeon
Franklin; BayPiggies
Python for scientific research, discussion with Guido van Rossum;
UCBSciPy
Netbooks - Michael Gorven, Dave Mackie, and Jonathan Carter; CLUG
Japan Linux Symposium Keynote, Linus Torvalds & Jim Zemlin; Linux
Foundation

http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos
Download & watch them before the meetings, discuss at the meetings.

Thanks to all the Speakers, Videographers, & Groups! :)
[Record your local meeting! Put the video online, & email me for
inclusion for next month. :) ]

===== Hot topics: Ubuntu 9.10 - Problems? Fixes? Upgrade? Install?
Freeswitch VOIP server - setup for BTIP
Flyers & outreach to UCBerkeley.
Outreach to other UC campuses next semester.


=====  Opportunities - Learn new, or increase your job skills, &/or
volunteer & help the community:  Set up any of: a BTIP Mailing List, web
server/site, Freeswitch VOIP server, or Virtual Private Network & SSL


===== Announcement Flyers:  Print & Post them in your community.  4/5
available - Freedom, Karmic Koala, Free Culture, SciPy, OLPC. See bottom
of page:  http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal


===== New BTIP Webpages @ http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/
UC Campus local groups; Free Hardware; System Administration;
Announcement Flyers; Opportunities


For Forwarding - You are invited to forward this announcement wherever
it would be appreciated.

From jjinux at gmail.com  Sat Nov  7 22:03:23 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 13:03:23 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Suicide
In-Reply-To: <200911070019.42201.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<200911070019.42201.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90911071303u2debd256jc038948ca280c855@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Rami Chowdhury
<rami.chowdhury at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday 06 November 2009 22:17:50 Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
>> My friend committed suicide. He was a brilliant programmer, and he had
>> everything going for him. He was very successful.
>
> My sincere condolences -- if there's any way I / we can help you out, please
> let me / us know.
>
>> I'm crushed because I know I could have helped if only he had given me
>> a chance.
>
> I wish that were always true :-( Sometimes there isn't much anyone can do.
>
>> We are a community and we are only as great as
>> the individuals that thrive and share with one another in that
>> community. Everyone contributes, whether in small ways or large, and
>> every loss is felt by more people than we consider in our moments of
>> darkness.
>
> A great sentiment -- thank you, JJ, for reminding us we're all part of
> something bigger.
>
>> I don't want to wake up
>> on another day to find another brilliant mind missing from this great
>> community of thinkers.
>
> Nor do I. If anyone needs to talk to someone, they can call me too: +1 408 597
> 7068.

Thanks, Rami.  I think we *can* help.

I have a friend who said he helped prevent his friend from committing
suicide.  A group of friends noticed that this guy was going downhill
quickly.  They forced him to eat, take a shower, and get on a plane.
On the other side, they got him an internship at a new company.  Years
later, he was very successful and thanked them for saving his life.

It only takes a small light to light up a dark room so that you can
find the door.

-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Sun Nov  8 20:53:04 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 11:53:04 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Free MIT Python Intro to Computer Science Course Videos
Message-ID: <e5660d770911081153k469b3fb6v2107db1b8b91be28@mail.gmail.com>

No programming knowledge expected:

http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Electrical-Engineering-and-Computer-Science/6-00Fall-2008/LectureVideos/index.htm

Cheers,

Glen
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From hyperneato at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 02:59:56 2009
From: hyperneato at gmail.com (Isaac)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 17:59:56 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Free MIT Python Intro to Computer Science Course
	Videos
In-Reply-To: <e5660d770911081153k469b3fb6v2107db1b8b91be28@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e5660d770911081153k469b3fb6v2107db1b8b91be28@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7260654a0911081759n2008f36r2dcd418077b4e44c@mail.gmail.com>

If you like the youtube.com format:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6U-i4gXkLM
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From jjinux at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 05:43:25 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 20:43:25 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Death in the Python community... :(
In-Reply-To: <e5660d770911051217t18b90079o22e6b0e720b0a2ec@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e5660d770911051217t18b90079o22e6b0e720b0a2ec@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90911082043s229086f1h1bc804adc41db8fd@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
> The creator of PyMol has passed away. :(
>
> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=ind0911&L=CCP4BB&T=0&F=&S=&P=36074

Ugh, that's a shame.  He was a really bright guy, and a member of BayPiggies.

-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 19:35:31 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 10:35:31 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Suicide
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90911071303u2debd256jc038948ca280c855@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<200911070019.42201.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90911071303u2debd256jc038948ca280c855@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u244lhf9jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 13:03:23 -0800, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Rami Chowdhury
> <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Friday 06 November 2009 22:17:50 Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
>>> My friend committed suicide. He was a brilliant programmer, and he had
>>> everything going for him. He was very successful.
>>
>> My sincere condolences -- if there's any way I / we can help you out,  
>> please
>> let me / us know.
>>
>>> I'm crushed because I know I could have helped if only he had given me
>>> a chance.
>>
>> I wish that were always true :-( Sometimes there isn't much anyone can  
>> do.
>>
>
> Thanks, Rami.  I think we *can* help.
>
> I have a friend who said he helped prevent his friend from committing
> suicide.  A group of friends noticed that this guy was going downhill
> quickly.  They forced him to eat, take a shower, and get on a plane.
> On the other side, they got him an internship at a new company.  Years
> later, he was very successful and thanked them for saving his life.
>
> It only takes a small light to light up a dark room so that you can
> find the door.

http://www.samaritans.org/

Do you think something like this would work in the US? They've saved the  
lives of several people I know in the UK...



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Mon Nov  9 19:41:40 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 10:41:40 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Suicide
In-Reply-To: <op.u244lhf9jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
References: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<200911070019.42201.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90911071303u2debd256jc038948ca280c855@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u244lhf9jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
Message-ID: <0A1541F5-7419-4235-A1E7-A4B7DB1D2928@glenjarvis.com>

>>> I wish that were always true :-( Sometimes there isn't much anyone  
>>> can do.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks, Rami.  I think we *can* help.
>>
>> I have a friend who said he helped prevent his friend from committing
>> suicide.  A group of friends noticed that this guy was going downhill
>> quickly.  They forced him to eat, take a shower, and get on a plane.
>> On the other side, they got him an internship at a new company.   
>> Years
>> later, he was very successful and thanked them for saving his life.
>>
>> It only takes a small light to light up a dark room so that you can
>> find the door.
>
> http://www.samaritans.org/
>
> Do you think something like this would work in the US? They've saved  
> the lives of several people I know in the UK...

It also never hurts to additionally refer friends to professional help:

USA National Suicide Hotlines
Toll-Free / 24 hours / 7 days a week

1-800-SUICIDE
1-800-784-2433
	
1-800-273-TALK
1-800-273-8255
TTY: 1-800-799-4TTY (4889)


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From jjinux at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 22:33:09 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 13:33:09 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Suicide
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90911091333p42fe5d06h20be632b7214fbfd@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com>wrote:

> My friend committed suicide. He was a brilliant programmer, and he had
> everything going for him. He was very successful.
>
> I'm crushed because I know I could have helped if only he had given me
> a chance. He never did.
>
> We in the programming world aren't always the most emotionally
> balanced. I know of three others who took their lives in the
> programming world. I've hinted at this before on my Bipolar Lisp
> Programmer post
> <http://jjinux.blogspot.com/2008/05/bipolar-lisp-programmer.html>. To
> compound matters, our society has been moving away from personal
> interaction and responsibility for decades, leading to a culture that
> is toxic.
>
> Mother Theresa said that the greatest poverty that she ever saw was to
> see people who felt unloved. If your friends are feeling unloved,
> please reach out to them. We are each far more loved than we think. In
> the programming world, it's so easy to get caught up in petty
> struggles, like Pylons vs. Django, Ruby vs. Python, free software vs.
> open source, Linux vs. pretty much everything else ;) What we forget
> is that we're all people with hopes and dreams, fears and
> insecurities. We're all trying to change the world, but as Mother
> Theresa said, "In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do
> small things with great love."
>
> Look out for each other, but if you have no where to turn, contact me!
> Call me directly at (925) 209-6439. Don't consider the middle of the
> night an inconvenience. When else am I going to work with five kids
> around ;) I will do everything I can to help. I don't want to wake up
> on another day to find another brilliant mind missing from this great
> community of thinkers. We are a community and we are only as great as
> the individuals that thrive and share with one another in that
> community. Everyone contributes, whether in small ways or large, and
> every loss is felt by more people than we consider in our moments of
> darkness.
>
>
By the way, I blogged this, and there's a pretty helpful thread going on:
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/2009/11/suicide.html

-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with
great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
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From jjinux at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 22:53:13 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 13:53:13 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Suicide
In-Reply-To: <op.u244lhf9jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
References: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<200911070019.42201.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90911071303u2debd256jc038948ca280c855@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u244lhf9jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90911091353q238d10a6te4b76c84efef3da1@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Rami Chowdhury <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 13:03:23 -0800, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>  On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Rami Chowdhury
>> <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday 06 November 2009 22:17:50 Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
>>>
>>>> My friend committed suicide. He was a brilliant programmer, and he had
>>>> everything going for him. He was very successful.
>>>>
>>>
>>> My sincere condolences -- if there's any way I / we can help you out,
>>> please
>>> let me / us know.
>>>
>>>  I'm crushed because I know I could have helped if only he had given me
>>>> a chance.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I wish that were always true :-( Sometimes there isn't much anyone can
>>> do.
>>>
>>>
>> Thanks, Rami.  I think we *can* help.
>>
>> I have a friend who said he helped prevent his friend from committing
>> suicide.  A group of friends noticed that this guy was going downhill
>> quickly.  They forced him to eat, take a shower, and get on a plane.
>> On the other side, they got him an internship at a new company.  Years
>> later, he was very successful and thanked them for saving his life.
>>
>> It only takes a small light to light up a dark room so that you can
>> find the door.
>>
>
> http://www.samaritans.org/
>
> Do you think something like this would work in the US? They've saved the
> lives of several people I know in the UK...
>

It works, eh?  That's great!  You should post that comment on my blog for
any other people who are looking.  There must be groups in the US who are
similar, although I don't know of any or whether they are successful.  I
think that we in the FOSS world have to really look out for each other
because the nature of our work can really wear us down over the long haul.

-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with
great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
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From jon at inklesspen.com  Mon Nov  9 22:55:42 2009
From: jon at inklesspen.com (Jon Rosebaugh)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 13:55:42 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Suicide
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90911091353q238d10a6te4b76c84efef3da1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<200911070019.42201.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90911071303u2debd256jc038948ca280c855@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u244lhf9jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<c41f67b90911091353q238d10a6te4b76c84efef3da1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <170C6CD8-A44C-46E7-A34B-26AF7449DE43@inklesspen.com>

On Nov 9, 2009, at 1:53 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> It works, eh?  That's great!  You should post that comment on my  
> blog for any other people who are looking.  There must be groups in  
> the US who are similar, although I don't know of any or whether they  
> are successful.  I think that we in the FOSS world have to really  
> look out for each other because the nature of our work can really  
> wear us down over the long haul.

There's the Yellow Ribbon hotline people: http://www.yellowribbon.org/

I remember them visiting a lot in my high school.

From p at ulmcnett.com  Tue Nov 10 00:30:21 2009
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 15:30:21 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] strftime("%x") inconsistent?
Message-ID: <4AF8A60D.1050706@ulmcnett.com>

Hi,

I'm using python 2.5.4 (sorry, been meaning to go to 2.6 or 2.7 but I've been too 
busy to take the plunge yet, and I can't consider going to 3.x until there's more 
3rd-party lib support).

Anyway, I want to give a textual representation of a date or datetime using the 
user's current locale setting. I don't want to explicitly set the format as I think 
this should be up to the user.

The following code results in the expected output (match the 'short date' format in 
Control Panel/Regional Settings) on Windows XP, but not on Mac 10.5.7 or Ubuntu 8.04:

{{{
import locale
import datetime
import time

locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, "")

d = datetime.date.today()

print time.strftime("%x", d.timetuple())
}}}

Am I forgetting a step?

Thanks
Paul

From keith at dartworks.biz  Tue Nov 10 00:44:48 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 15:44:48 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] strftime("%x") inconsistent?
In-Reply-To: <4AF8A60D.1050706@ulmcnett.com>
References: <4AF8A60D.1050706@ulmcnett.com>
Message-ID: <20091109154448.298960ff@dartworks.biz>

=== On Mon, 11/09, Paul McNett wrote: ===
> Am I forgetting a step?

===

Works for me on my system:

Python> import locale
Python> import datetime
Python> import time
Python> 
Python> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, "")
'en_US.UTF-8'
Python> 
Python> d = datetime.date.today()
Python> 
Python> print time.strftime("%x", d.timetuple())
11/09/2009
Python> 


Do you have your LANG or LC_* set on your systems?




-- Keith Dart

-- 
-- --------------------
Keith Dart
<keith at dartworks.biz>
=======================

From p at ulmcnett.com  Tue Nov 10 00:57:09 2009
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 15:57:09 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] strftime("%x") inconsistent?
In-Reply-To: <4AF8A60D.1050706@ulmcnett.com>
References: <4AF8A60D.1050706@ulmcnett.com>
Message-ID: <4AF8AC55.70306@ulmcnett.com>

Paul McNett wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm using python 2.5.4 (sorry, been meaning to go to 2.6 or 2.7 but I've 
> been too busy to take the plunge yet, and I can't consider going to 3.x 
> until there's more 3rd-party lib support).
> 
> Anyway, I want to give a textual representation of a date or datetime 
> using the user's current locale setting. I don't want to explicitly set 
> the format as I think this should be up to the user.
> 
> The following code results in the expected output (match the 'short 
> date' format in Control Panel/Regional Settings) on Windows XP, but not 
> on Mac 10.5.7 or Ubuntu 8.04:
> 
> {{{
> import locale
> import datetime
> import time
> 
> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, "")
> 
> d = datetime.date.today()
> 
> print time.strftime("%x", d.timetuple())
> }}}
> 
> Am I forgetting a step?

Ok, the only inconsistency is how Windows works, I guess. On Linux and Mac, the LANG 
environmental variable determines which locale's date format we use. So in order to 
see the format change, I need to run my test program in a new terminal each time so 
that $LANG reflects the current value in System Preferences. On Windows, I guess 
there's a different mechanism to determine $LANG so I didn't need to restart the 
terminal on that platform.

Thanks and sorry for the noise.

Paul

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Nov 11 05:19:42 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:19:42 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Suicide
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90911091353q238d10a6te4b76c84efef3da1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<200911070019.42201.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90911071303u2debd256jc038948ca280c855@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u244lhf9jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<c41f67b90911091353q238d10a6te4b76c84efef3da1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091111041941.GA22371@panix.com>

On Mon, Nov 09, 2009, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Rami Chowdhury <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>wrote:
>> 
>> http://www.samaritans.org/
>>
>> Do you think something like this would work in the US? They've saved the
>> lives of several people I know in the UK...
> 
> It works, eh?  That's great!  You should post that comment on my blog
> for any other people who are looking.  There must be groups in the
> US who are similar, although I don't know of any or whether they are
> successful.  I think that we in the FOSS world have to really look out
> for each other because the nature of our work can really wear us down
> over the long haul.

Are you saying that there's something particular to FOSS that makes
people more susceptible to suicide?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

[on old computer technologies and programmers]  "Fancy tail fins on a
brand new '59 Cadillac didn't mean throwing out a whole generation of
mechanics who started with model As."  --Andrew Dalke

From kelly at nttmcl.com  Wed Nov 11 06:35:34 2009
From: kelly at nttmcl.com (Kelly Yancey)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:35:34 +0900
Subject: [Baypiggies] Suicide
In-Reply-To: <20091111041941.GA22371@panix.com>
References: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>	<200911070019.42201.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>	<c41f67b90911071303u2debd256jc038948ca280c855@mail.gmail.com>	<op.u244lhf9jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>	<c41f67b90911091353q238d10a6te4b76c84efef3da1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091111041941.GA22371@panix.com>
Message-ID: <4AFA4D26.80701@nttmcl.com>

Aahz wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 09, 2009, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
>> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Rami Chowdhury <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>wrote:
>>> http://www.samaritans.org/
>>>
>>> Do you think something like this would work in the US? They've saved the
>>> lives of several people I know in the UK...
>> It works, eh?  That's great!  You should post that comment on my blog
>> for any other people who are looking.  There must be groups in the
>> US who are similar, although I don't know of any or whether they are
>> successful.  I think that we in the FOSS world have to really look out
>> for each other because the nature of our work can really wear us down
>> over the long haul.
> 
> Are you saying that there's something particular to FOSS that makes
> people more susceptible to suicide?

It's the nit-picking. ;)

Kelly

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Nov 11 06:41:13 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:41:13 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Suicide
In-Reply-To: <4AFA4D26.80701@nttmcl.com>
References: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<200911070019.42201.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90911071303u2debd256jc038948ca280c855@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u244lhf9jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<c41f67b90911091353q238d10a6te4b76c84efef3da1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091111041941.GA22371@panix.com> <4AFA4D26.80701@nttmcl.com>
Message-ID: <20091111054113.GA11043@panix.com>

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009, Kelly Yancey wrote:
> Aahz wrote:
>> On Mon, Nov 09, 2009, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
>>> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Rami Chowdhury <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>> http://www.samaritans.org/
>>>>
>>>> Do you think something like this would work in the US? They've saved the
>>>> lives of several people I know in the UK...
>>> It works, eh?  That's great!  You should post that comment on my blog
>>> for any other people who are looking.  There must be groups in the
>>> US who are similar, although I don't know of any or whether they are
>>> successful.  I think that we in the FOSS world have to really look out
>>> for each other because the nature of our work can really wear us down
>>> over the long haul.
>>
>> Are you saying that there's something particular to FOSS that makes
>> people more susceptible to suicide?
>
> It's the nit-picking. ;)

"You may call it nitpicking, but I call it social grooming."  --Maggie Young
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

[on old computer technologies and programmers]  "Fancy tail fins on a
brand new '59 Cadillac didn't mean throwing out a whole generation of
mechanics who started with model As."  --Andrew Dalke

From asimjalis at gmail.com  Wed Nov 11 17:29:18 2009
From: asimjalis at gmail.com (Asim Jalis)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:29:18 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Suicide
In-Reply-To: <20091111041941.GA22371@panix.com>
References: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<200911070019.42201.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90911071303u2debd256jc038948ca280c855@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u244lhf9jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<c41f67b90911091353q238d10a6te4b76c84efef3da1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091111041941.GA22371@panix.com>
Message-ID: <88d9159a0911110829s31414457sf465e54d75100125@mail.gmail.com>

I find that spending some time doing Python has the power to create
deep happiness and might even be a cure for suicidal thoughts. So has
anyone seen any interesting Python projects lately?

From charles.merriam at gmail.com  Thu Nov 12 01:30:54 2009
From: charles.merriam at gmail.com (Charles Merriam)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:30:54 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Fw: pydoop -- Python MapReduce and HDFS API for
	Hadoop
In-Reply-To: <c78d65270911061319n366c378v336ef9d5672edc63@mail.gmail.com>
References: <691515.53282.qm@web50701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<c78d65270911061319n366c378v336ef9d5672edc63@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8c6f6c40911111630k380c6052q434197662a2fde06@mail.gmail.com>

In a related note, Shevek released KarmaSphere
(http://www.hadoopstudio.org/) which tracks the logs and usage across
your  jobs on your favorite thousand node Hadoop  network.  Is slick.

Charles


On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Alec Flett <alecf at flett.org> wrote:
> FWIW, Metaweb released it's Python Hadoop library as well, called "Happy"
> http://code.google.com/p/happy/
> (though it looks like it hasn't been updated in a while, I know there has
> been ongoing developments internally including support for Python 2.5)
> Alec
>
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Joel VanderKwaak
> <joelvanderkwaak at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> fyi - I haven't used it, and can't comment ;)
>>
>> ----- Forwarded Message ----
>> From: Simone Leo <simone.leo at crs4.it>
>> To: general at hadoop.apache.org
>> Sent: Fri, November 6, 2009 9:20:36 AM
>> Subject: pydoop -- Python MapReduce and HDFS API for Hadoop
>>
>> Hello everybody,
>>
>> we recently released pydoop, a Python MapReduce and HDFS API for Hadoop:
>>
>> http://pydoop.sourceforge.net
>>
>> It is implemented as a Boost.Python wrapper around the C++ code (pipes
>> and libhdfs). It allows you to write complete MapReduce application in
>> CPython, with the same capabilities as the C++ API. Here is a minimal
>> wordcount example:
>>
>>
>> from pydoop.pipes import Mapper, Reducer, Factory, runTask
>>
>> class WordCountMapper(Mapper):
>>
>> ? def __init__(self, context):
>> ? ? super(WordCountMapper, self).__init__(context)
>>
>> ? def map(self, context):
>> ? ? words = context.getInputValue().split()
>> ? ? for w in words:
>> ? ? ? context.emit(w, "1")
>>
>> class WordCountReducer(Reducer):
>>
>> ? def __init__(self, context):
>> ? ? super(WordCountReducer, self).__init__(context)
>>
>> ? def reduce(self, context):
>> ? ? s = 0
>> ? ? while context.nextValue():
>> ? ? ? s += int(context.getInputValue())
>> ? ? context.emit(context.getInputKey(), str(s))
>>
>> runTask(Factory(WordCountMapper, WordCountReducer))
>>
>>
>> Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> --
>> Simone Leo
>> Distributed Computing group
>> Advanced Computing and Communications program
>> CRS4
>> POLARIS - Building #1
>> Piscina Manna
>> I-09010 Pula (CA) - Italy
>> e-mail: simleo at crs4.it
>> http://www.crs4.it
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From jeff at drinktomi.com  Thu Nov 12 15:10:15 2009
From: jeff at drinktomi.com (Jeff Younker)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 06:10:15 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Fw: pydoop -- Python MapReduce and HDFS API for
	Hadoop
In-Reply-To: <691515.53282.qm@web50701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <691515.53282.qm@web50701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <961756E2-6ACA-4E00-9437-9EEBDBF5E2B3@drinktomi.com>

On Nov 6, 2009, at 11:59 AM, Joel VanderKwaak wrote:
> we recently released pydoop, a Python MapReduce and HDFS API for  
> Hadoop:
> ...
> It is implemented as a Boost.Python wrapper around the C++ code (pipes
> and libhdfs). It allows you to write complete MapReduce application in
> CPython, with the same capabilities as the C++ API. Here is a minimal
> wordcount example:
> ...
>   def reduce(self, context):
>     s = 0
>     while context.nextValue():
>       s += int(context.getInputValue())
>     context.emit(context.getInputKey(), str(s))
> ...
> Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.


This is an impressive piece of work, and I'm really glad to have it  
around.  I've recently started to look at hadoop's map reduce and this  
is going to make my life much easier.  It strikes me as being a little  
un-pythonic though, reading much like Java written in Python, and I  
think a few changes would improve it.

1)  Use the python_standard_for_method_and_attribute names instead of  
the javaLowerCamelCaseConvention.

With this change the reduce method would become:

     def reduce(self, context):
         s = 0
         while context.next_value():
             s += int(context.get_input_value())
         context.emit(context.get_input_key(), str(s))

2) Use properties instead of getter functions.

The Context class would define:

     input_value = property(lambda x: x.get_input_value())
     input_key = property(lambda x: x.get_input_key())

And the reduce method becomes:

     def reduce(self, context):
         s = 0
         while context.next_value():
             s += int(context.input_value)
         context.emit(context.input_key, str(s))

3) Use generators for traversing the results.

The Context class would define:

     def values(self):
         while self.next_value():
             yield self.input_value

And the reduce method becomes:

     def reduce(self, context):
         s = 0
         for x in context.values():
             s += int(x)
         context.emit(context.input_key, str(s))


4) If next_value() is the primary traversal then consider making the  
Context into an iterator.

The Context class would then define:

     def __iter__(self):
         return self.values()

     def values(self):
         while self.next_value():
             yield self.input_value

And the reduce function becomes:

     def reduce(self, context):
         s = 0
         for x in context:
             s += int(x)
         context.emit(context.input_key, str(s))


Once again, thanks for doing this, and thanks for releasing it.  This  
is a fabulous package to have in my toolchest.

- Jeff Younker - jeff at drinktomi.com -

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Thu Nov 12 18:26:30 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 09:26:30 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Only peripherally related to Python
Message-ID: <e5660d770911120926p12b4c35awbbf879cd491a0af3@mail.gmail.com>

This is only related to our group because I know of a BayPIGgie member who
is active in the Computer History museum.

This was featured in IEEE Spectrum:

http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/hardware/rebuilding-the-ibm-1401

Cheers,



Glen
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From alchaiken at gmail.com  Thu Nov 12 20:22:39 2009
From: alchaiken at gmail.com (Alison Chaiken)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:22:39 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] __init__.py.in
Message-ID: <cd7dd44d0911121122oc78a97dq4f0bdb51f471a900@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry for this newbie question, but I'm stumped.     I'd like to use
package pyatspi, which comes with (among other things) a file called
__init__.py.in.    The instructions for installation say to run
"python setup.py install" as expected.     However "python setup.py
install" and "python setup.py build" give me the error

running build
running build_py
package init file '__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
package init file '__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)

Well yeah, the svn download doesn't provide an __init__.py file, so I
don't have one!

What step am I missing here?     How do I turn __init__.py.in into
__init__.py?    I can't find the answer in G****e.

Alternatively, what I wish to do is to use pyatspi to switch linux
desktop screens under programmatic control.    Is there a more
recommended package that provides this capability.

Thanks,
Alison


-- 
Alison Chaiken
(650) 279-5600  (cell)  		                                	
    http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/
The revolution will be automated.   -- David E. Calkins, riffing on
Gil Scott-Heron's "The revolution will not be televised."
Sent from Stanford, CA, United States

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Thu Nov 12 20:35:47 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:35:47 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] __init__.py.in
In-Reply-To: <cd7dd44d0911121122oc78a97dq4f0bdb51f471a900@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd7dd44d0911121122oc78a97dq4f0bdb51f471a900@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e5660d770911121135m6750afefya50008c17803859e@mail.gmail.com>

Alison,
   I'm not familiar with your package, so I'm sure others will be able to
help give more details on why this is set up this way. But, let me tell you
what an __init__.py file is. Also, I can show you how to get started in the
short term.

    A module in python is almost like a directory (on your python path). For
example, lets say we have a directory like this:

my_cool_module
    my_cool_file1.py
    my_cool_file2.py

Now, it'd be very "cool" if I could do this:

from my_cool_module.my_cool_file1.py import my_cool_function

(okay forgive my bad naming and overuse of the word 'cool' :)

This won't work without a __init__.py file inside:

my_cool_module
    __init__.py
    my_cool_file1.py
    my_cool_file2.py

You can almost think of it as a "directory" of your module files. Now, the
file doesn't have to have any python code it it (but it can if you really
want to do some special things). It only has to exist.

With all that said, I'm not sure what your __init__.py.in file contains. It
may be an empty file. However, to use any module, you need to have an
__init__.py file.

So, it may be as simple as:

cp __init__.py.in __init__.py

Or, if there's nothing in the file, simply creating a blank one will let you
move on:

touch __init__.py


This doesn't get you totally out of the weeds. But, hopefully it helps a
little.


Warmest Regards,


Glen Jarvis



On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Alison Chaiken <alchaiken at gmail.com>wrote:

> Sorry for this newbie question, but I'm stumped.     I'd like to use
> package pyatspi, which comes with (among other things) a file called
> __init__.py.in.    The instructions for installation say to run
> "python setup.py install" as expected.     However "python setup.py
> install" and "python setup.py build" give me the error
>
> running build
> running build_py
> package init file '__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
> package init file '__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
>
> Well yeah, the svn download doesn't provide an __init__.py file, so I
> don't have one!
>
> What step am I missing here?     How do I turn __init__.py.in into
> __init__.py?    I can't find the answer in G****e.
>
> Alternatively, what I wish to do is to use pyatspi to switch linux
> desktop screens under programmatic control.    Is there a more
> recommended package that provides this capability.
>
> Thanks,
> Alison
>
>
> --
> Alison Chaiken
> (650) 279-5600  (cell)
>    http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/
> The revolution will be automated.   -- David E. Calkins, riffing on
> Gil Scott-Heron's "The revolution will not be televised."
> Sent from Stanford, CA, United States
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Nov 12 20:46:53 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:46:53 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] __init__.py.in
In-Reply-To: <cd7dd44d0911121122oc78a97dq4f0bdb51f471a900@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd7dd44d0911121122oc78a97dq4f0bdb51f471a900@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091112194653.GA3104@panix.com>

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009, Alison Chaiken wrote:
>
> Sorry for this newbie question, but I'm stumped.     I'd like to use
> package pyatspi, which comes with (among other things) a file called
> __init__.py.in.    The instructions for installation say to run
> "python setup.py install" as expected.     However "python setup.py
> install" and "python setup.py build" give me the error
> 
> running build
> running build_py
> package init file '__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
> package init file '__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
> 
> Well yeah, the svn download doesn't provide an __init__.py file, so I
> don't have one!
> 
> What step am I missing here?     How do I turn __init__.py.in into
> __init__.py?    I can't find the answer in G****e.

The .in implies that there's supposed to be some kind of autoconf/make
step somewhere in there, but I can't help diagnose beyond that.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

[on old computer technologies and programmers]  "Fancy tail fins on a
brand new '59 Cadillac didn't mean throwing out a whole generation of
mechanics who started with model As."  --Andrew Dalke

From recursive.cookie.jar at gmail.com  Thu Nov 12 20:47:07 2009
From: recursive.cookie.jar at gmail.com (Zachary Collins)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:47:07 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] __init__.py.in
In-Reply-To: <e5660d770911121135m6750afefya50008c17803859e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd7dd44d0911121122oc78a97dq4f0bdb51f471a900@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5660d770911121135m6750afefya50008c17803859e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fb19947e0911121147gdc9975dhc6bc3ea9d4481f57@mail.gmail.com>

Are there any make or configure files inside of the package?  That
would seem lame, but maybe one explanation.

The most likely explanation is that someone just didn't package
correctly and a cp __init__.py.in to __init__.py is all you need.

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
> Alison,
> ?? I'm not familiar with your package, so I'm sure others will be able to
> help give more details on why this is set up this way. But, let me tell you
> what an __init__.py file is. Also, I can show you how to get started in the
> short term.
> ?? ?A module in python is almost like a directory (on your python path). For
> example, lets say we have a directory like this:
> my_cool_module
> ?? ?my_cool_file1.py
> ?? ?my_cool_file2.py
> Now, it'd be very "cool" if I could do this:
> from my_cool_module.my_cool_file1.py import my_cool_function
> (okay forgive my bad naming and overuse of the word 'cool' :)
> This won't work without a __init__.py file inside:
> my_cool_module
> ?? ?__init__.py
> ?? ?my_cool_file1.py
> ?? ?my_cool_file2.py
> You can almost think of it as a "directory" of your module files. Now, the
> file doesn't have to have any python code it it (but it can if you really
> want to do some special things). It only has to exist.
> With all that said, I'm not sure what your __init__.py.in file contains. It
> may be an empty file. However, to use any module, you need to have an
> __init__.py file.
> So, it may be as simple as:
> cp __init__.py.in __init__.py
> Or, if there's nothing in the file, simply creating a blank one will let you
> move on:
> touch __init__.py
>
> This doesn't get you totally out of the weeds. But, hopefully it helps a
> little.
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Glen Jarvis
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Alison Chaiken <alchaiken at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Sorry for this newbie question, but I'm stumped. ? ? I'd like to use
>> package pyatspi, which comes with (among other things) a file called
>> __init__.py.in. ? ?The instructions for installation say to run
>> "python setup.py install" as expected. ? ? However "python setup.py
>> install" and "python setup.py build" give me the error
>>
>> running build
>> running build_py
>> package init file '__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
>> package init file '__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
>>
>> Well yeah, the svn download doesn't provide an __init__.py file, so I
>> don't have one!
>>
>> What step am I missing here? ? ? How do I turn __init__.py.in into
>> __init__.py? ? ?I can't find the answer in G****e.
>>
>> Alternatively, what I wish to do is to use pyatspi to switch linux
>> desktop screens under programmatic control. ? ?Is there a more
>> recommended package that provides this capability.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Alison
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alison Chaiken
>> (650) 279-5600 ?(cell)
>> ? ?http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/
>> The revolution will be automated. ? -- David E. Calkins, riffing on
>> Gil Scott-Heron's "The revolution will not be televised."
>> Sent from Stanford, CA, United States
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From alchaiken at gmail.com  Thu Nov 12 21:00:17 2009
From: alchaiken at gmail.com (Alison Chaiken)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:00:17 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] __init__.py.in
In-Reply-To: <fb19947e0911121147gdc9975dhc6bc3ea9d4481f57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd7dd44d0911121122oc78a97dq4f0bdb51f471a900@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e5660d770911121135m6750afefya50008c17803859e@mail.gmail.com> 
	<fb19947e0911121147gdc9975dhc6bc3ea9d4481f57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cd7dd44d0911121200r652c85c2h77c0335ef8e70e66@mail.gmail.com>

Hey, even though __init__.py.in is not empty, creating an empty
__init__.py file worked!      Thanks guys, that was simple.    On to
the next difficulty.

-- 
Alison Chaiken
(650) 279-5600  (cell)  		                                	
    http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/
The revolution will be automated.   -- David E. Calkins, riffing on
Gil Scott-Heron's "The revolution will not be televised."

From jason at mischievous.org  Thu Nov 12 21:02:43 2009
From: jason at mischievous.org (Jason Culverhouse)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:02:43 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] __init__.py.in
In-Reply-To: <cd7dd44d0911121122oc78a97dq4f0bdb51f471a900@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd7dd44d0911121122oc78a97dq4f0bdb51f471a900@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EA86DB41-D2A3-4A63-AB07-2240C1B44C77@mischievous.org>


On Nov 12, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Alison Chaiken wrote:

> Sorry for this newbie question, but I'm stumped.     I'd like to use
> package pyatspi, which comes with (among other things) a file called
> __init__.py.in.    The instructions for installation say to run
> "python setup.py install" as expected.     However "python setup.py
> install" and "python setup.py build" give me the error
>
> running build
> running build_py
> package init file '__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
> package init file '__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
>
> Well yeah, the svn download doesn't provide an __init__.py file, so I
> don't have one!
>
> What step am I missing here?     How do I turn __init__.py.in into
> __init__.py?    I can't find the answer in G****e.
>

This must be a piece of a larger build process, the ".in" file is a
GNU Autoconf template,
copy __init__.py.in to __init__.py and put in the values for
things with @SOMETHING@

specifically:
__version__ = (@AT_SPI_MAJOR_VERSION@, @AT_SPI_MINOR_VERSION@,  
@AT_SPI_MICRO_VERSION@)

You might consider installing with your linux distro install tools  
(apt/rmp etc.)
Jason


From jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com  Thu Nov 12 21:11:04 2009
From: jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com (Jeremy Fishman)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:11:04 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] __init__.py.in
In-Reply-To: <cd7dd44d0911121122oc78a97dq4f0bdb51f471a900@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd7dd44d0911121122oc78a97dq4f0bdb51f471a900@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f7713e30911121211y7cd3678fu93c8743d8e8ae991@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Alison,

I'm assuming you're following the instructions at
http://live.gnome.org/GAP/PythonATSPI.  These appear to be a bit outdated as
the parent package, at-spi, is using an autoconf/automake build system.  For
the pyatspi sub-package itself all this means is that the file __init__.
py.in is processed during configuration to generate __init__.py.  Looking at
the file, all that it does is insert the build version string at the top of
the module.

To build properly, you would need autoconf/automake and all the
dependencies.  Instead

$ cp __init__.py.in __init__.py

And edit line 36 to

__version__ = (1, 26, 0)

Just to build/install the python package.

Best,
Jeremy


On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Alison Chaiken <alchaiken at gmail.com>wrote:

> Sorry for this newbie question, but I'm stumped.     I'd like to use
> package pyatspi, which comes with (among other things) a file called
> __init__.py.in.    The instructions for installation say to run
> "python setup.py install" as expected.     However "python setup.py
> install" and "python setup.py build" give me the error
>
> running build
> running build_py
> package init file '__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
> package init file '__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
>
> Well yeah, the svn download doesn't provide an __init__.py file, so I
> don't have one!
>
> What step am I missing here?     How do I turn __init__.py.in into
> __init__.py?    I can't find the answer in G****e.
>
> Alternatively, what I wish to do is to use pyatspi to switch linux
> desktop screens under programmatic control.    Is there a more
> recommended package that provides this capability.
>
> Thanks,
> Alison
>
>
> --
> Alison Chaiken
> (650) 279-5600  (cell)
>    http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/
> The revolution will be automated.   -- David E. Calkins, riffing on
> Gil Scott-Heron's "The revolution will not be televised."
> Sent from Stanford, CA, United States
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com  Thu Nov 12 21:21:52 2009
From: jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com (Jeremy Fishman)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:21:52 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] __init__.py.in
In-Reply-To: <cd7dd44d0911121200r652c85c2h77c0335ef8e70e66@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd7dd44d0911121122oc78a97dq4f0bdb51f471a900@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5660d770911121135m6750afefya50008c17803859e@mail.gmail.com>
	<fb19947e0911121147gdc9975dhc6bc3ea9d4481f57@mail.gmail.com>
	<cd7dd44d0911121200r652c85c2h77c0335ef8e70e66@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f7713e30911121221n1ab5a7f4h77996155388d68fc@mail.gmail.com>

That will work to install the package, but not when you try to use it.  Do
what I said just a minute ago.

  - Jeremy

On Nov 12, 2009 12:19 PM, "Alison Chaiken" <alchaiken at gmail.com> wrote:

Hey, even though __init__.py.in is not empty, creating an empty
__init__.py file worked!      Thanks guys, that was simple.    On to
the next difficulty.

--

Alison Chaiken (650) 279-5600 (cell) http://www.exercisefo...

_______________________________________________ Baypiggies mailing list
Baypiggies at python.org To cha...
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From jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com  Thu Nov 12 21:45:14 2009
From: jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com (Jeremy Fishman)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:45:14 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] __init__.py.in
In-Reply-To: <EA86DB41-D2A3-4A63-AB07-2240C1B44C77@mischievous.org>
References: <cd7dd44d0911121122oc78a97dq4f0bdb51f471a900@mail.gmail.com>
	<EA86DB41-D2A3-4A63-AB07-2240C1B44C77@mischievous.org>
Message-ID: <1f7713e30911121245s6fb2a8a4r81a261a77f3e6eb1@mail.gmail.com>

Agreed.  The package is 'python-pyatspi' in Debian/Ubuntu.

  - Jeremy

On Nov 12, 2009 12:21 PM, "Jason Culverhouse" <jason at mischievous.org> wrote:

On Nov 12, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Alison Chaiken wrote: > Sorry for this newbie
question, but I'm stum...
This must be a piece of a larger build process, the ".in" file is a
GNU Autoconf template,
copy __init__.py.in to __init__.py and put in the values for
things with @SOMETHING@

specifically:
__version__ = (@AT_SPI_MAJOR_VERSION@, @AT_SPI_MINOR_VERSION@,
@AT_SPI_MICRO_VERSION@)

You might consider installing with your linux distro install tools (apt/rmp
etc.)
Jason

_______________________________________________ Baypiggies mailing list
Baypiggies at python.org To c...
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Sat Nov 14 11:18:32 2009
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 02:18:32 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [ANN] Scientific Python at UC Berkeley talk for
	November 18
Message-ID: <db6b5ecc0911140218vd3e6ea6l722a3a48bb886b1b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I would like to know if in general people want to get these
announcements regarding the UC Berkeley py4science seminars on this
list or not, I don't want to spam people.  But last week's event with
Guido drew a huge crowd, some from this list, so perhaps there is
interest  (obviously Guido's visit was a special event, but still
there may be interest in these talks amongst this group).  If there
isn't let me know and I won't post them again, as you can always see
them at the group page:

https://cirl.berkeley.edu/view/Py4Science/WebHome

But if you find these useful,  I'm happy to send the announcements
here, it will be limited to just one email every 2 weeks at most.

So for now here's next week's, I'll refrain  from posting these again
if so requested.

Next week,  we will have a presentation by Bryan Catanzaro from EECS
on Copperhead, the system we got a glimpse of last week from his
lightning talk.  Details below.


Thanks,

f

When: November 18, 2pm.

Where: UC Berkeley, Evans 508-20

Title: Copperhead: Data-Parallel Python

Abstract:
The need for productive programming languages which can avail
themselves of parallel hardware has never been more acute.  The
Copperhead project attempts to address this problem by defining a
subset of Python which can be compiled and executed in a data-parallel
fashion.  Copperhead procedures are expressed as standard, fully-legal
Python procedures operating on Numpy datatypes, which are intercepted,
specialized, and compiled to parallel C code at runtime, and then
executed on a high-performance parallel platform.  Since the
Copperhead runtime supports only a subset of Python, the runtime will
revert to standard Python execution if specialization fails.  The
current Copperhead runtime targets Nvidia Graphics Processors, which
are highly suited for data-parallel computation and provide high
performance.  In this talk, I will be discussing the current state of
Copperhead, as well as plans for future development.

From spmcinerney at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 14 11:35:24 2009
From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 02:35:24 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [ANN] Scientific Python at UC Berkeley talk
	for	November 18
In-Reply-To: <db6b5ecc0911140218vd3e6ea6l722a3a48bb886b1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <db6b5ecc0911140218vd3e6ea6l722a3a48bb886b1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W16CEF1B897998372A46E55A0A70@phx.gbl>


+1 definitely. Thanks Fernando.

It's impossible to make it up to Berkeley during the workday otherwise I'd come.

 

Stephen
 
> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 02:18:32 -0800
> From: fperez.net at gmail.com
> To: baypiggies at python.org
> Subject: [Baypiggies] [ANN] Scientific Python at UC Berkeley talk for November 18
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I would like to know if in general people want to get these
> announcements regarding the UC Berkeley py4science seminars on this
> list or not, I don't want to spam people. But last week's event with
> Guido drew a huge crowd, some from this list, so perhaps there is
> interest (obviously Guido's visit was a special event, but still
> there may be interest in these talks amongst this group). If there
> isn't let me know and I won't post them again, as you can always see
> them at the group page:
> 
> https://cirl.berkeley.edu/view/Py4Science/WebHome
> 
> But if you find these useful, I'm happy to send the announcements
> here, it will be limited to just one email every 2 weeks at most.
> 
> So for now here's next week's, I'll refrain from posting these again
> if so requested.
> 
> Next week, we will have a presentation by Bryan Catanzaro from EECS
> on Copperhead, the system we got a glimpse of last week from his
> lightning talk. Details below.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> f
> 
> When: November 18, 2pm.
> 
> Where: UC Berkeley, Evans 508-20
> 
> Title: Copperhead: Data-Parallel Python
> 
> Abstract:
> The need for productive programming languages which can avail
> themselves of parallel hardware has never been more acute. The
> Copperhead project attempts to address this problem by defining a
> subset of Python which can be compiled and executed in a data-parallel
> fashion. Copperhead procedures are expressed as standard, fully-legal
> Python procedures operating on Numpy datatypes, which are intercepted,
> specialized, and compiled to parallel C code at runtime, and then
> executed on a high-performance parallel platform. Since the
> Copperhead runtime supports only a subset of Python, the runtime will
> revert to standard Python execution if specialization fails. The
> current Copperhead runtime targets Nvidia Graphics Processors, which
> are highly suited for data-parallel computation and provide high
> performance. In this talk, I will be discussing the current state of
> Copperhead, as well as plans for future development.
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
 		 	   		  
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Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more.
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From ken at seehart.com  Sat Nov 14 13:19:28 2009
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 04:19:28 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [ANN] Scientific Python at UC Berkeley talk for
 November 18
In-Reply-To: <db6b5ecc0911140218vd3e6ea6l722a3a48bb886b1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <db6b5ecc0911140218vd3e6ea6l722a3a48bb886b1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AFEA050.8090900@seehart.com>

+1  I'm glad you sent it.  Otherwise I would miss out.  Looks like a 
great topic.

Fernando Perez wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I would like to know if in general people want to get these
> announcements regarding the UC Berkeley py4science seminars on this
> list or not, I don't want to spam people.  But last week's event with
> Guido drew a huge crowd, some from this list, so perhaps there is
> interest  (obviously Guido's visit was a special event, but still
> there may be interest in these talks amongst this group).  If there
> isn't let me know and I won't post them again, as you can always see
> them at the group page:
>
> https://cirl.berkeley.edu/view/Py4Science/WebHome
>
> But if you find these useful,  I'm happy to send the announcements
> here, it will be limited to just one email every 2 weeks at most.
>
> So for now here's next week's, I'll refrain  from posting these again
> if so requested.
>
> Next week,  we will have a presentation by Bryan Catanzaro from EECS
> on Copperhead, the system we got a glimpse of last week from his
> lightning talk.  Details below.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> f
>
> When: November 18, 2pm.
>
> Where: UC Berkeley, Evans 508-20
>
> Title: Copperhead: Data-Parallel Python
>
> Abstract:
> The need for productive programming languages which can avail
> themselves of parallel hardware has never been more acute.  The
> Copperhead project attempts to address this problem by defining a
> subset of Python which can be compiled and executed in a data-parallel
> fashion.  Copperhead procedures are expressed as standard, fully-legal
> Python procedures operating on Numpy datatypes, which are intercepted,
> specialized, and compiled to parallel C code at runtime, and then
> executed on a high-performance parallel platform.  Since the
> Copperhead runtime supports only a subset of Python, the runtime will
> revert to standard Python execution if specialization fails.  The
> current Copperhead runtime targets Nvidia Graphics Processors, which
> are highly suited for data-parallel computation and provide high
> performance.  In this talk, I will be discussing the current state of
> Copperhead, as well as plans for future development.
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>   


From mikeyp at snaplogic.com  Sat Nov 14 18:18:38 2009
From: mikeyp at snaplogic.com (Michael Pittaro)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 09:18:38 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [ANN] Scientific Python at UC Berkeley talk for
 November 18
In-Reply-To: <db6b5ecc0911140218vd3e6ea6l722a3a48bb886b1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <db6b5ecc0911140218vd3e6ea6l722a3a48bb886b1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AFEE66E.80500@snaplogic.com>

+1 from me.

It's good to know what happening, and it's hardly spam.

Fernando Perez wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I would like to know if in general people want to get these
> announcements regarding the UC Berkeley py4science seminars on this
> list or not, I don't want to spam people.  But last week's event with
> Guido drew a huge crowd, some from this list, so perhaps there is
> interest  (obviously Guido's visit was a special event, but still
> there may be interest in these talks amongst this group).  If there
> isn't let me know and I won't post them again, as you can always see
> them at the group
-- 
Mike Pittaro
Co-Founder                      Snaplogic, Inc.
mikeyp at snaplogic.com            http://www.snaplogic.com
SnapLogic was named a Cool Vendor in Data Integration for 2009
http://tinyurl.com/snaplogic-is-cool


From jim at well.com  Sat Nov 14 19:28:03 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:28:03 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [ANN] Scientific Python at UC Berkeley talk
	for	November 18
In-Reply-To: <db6b5ecc0911140218vd3e6ea6l722a3a48bb886b1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <db6b5ecc0911140218vd3e6ea6l722a3a48bb886b1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1258223283.6797.8.camel@jim-laptop>



+1 


On Sat, 2009-11-14 at 02:18 -0800, Fernando Perez wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I would like to know if in general people want to get these
> announcements regarding the UC Berkeley py4science seminars on this
> list or not, I don't want to spam people.  But last week's event with
> Guido drew a huge crowd, some from this list, so perhaps there is
> interest  (obviously Guido's visit was a special event, but still
> there may be interest in these talks amongst this group).  If there
> isn't let me know and I won't post them again, as you can always see
> them at the group page:
> 
> https://cirl.berkeley.edu/view/Py4Science/WebHome
> 
> But if you find these useful,  I'm happy to send the announcements
> here, it will be limited to just one email every 2 weeks at most.
> 
> So for now here's next week's, I'll refrain  from posting these again
> if so requested.
> 
> Next week,  we will have a presentation by Bryan Catanzaro from EECS
> on Copperhead, the system we got a glimpse of last week from his
> lightning talk.  Details below.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> f
> 
> When: November 18, 2pm.
> 
> Where: UC Berkeley, Evans 508-20
> 
> Title: Copperhead: Data-Parallel Python
> 
> Abstract:
> The need for productive programming languages which can avail
> themselves of parallel hardware has never been more acute.  The
> Copperhead project attempts to address this problem by defining a
> subset of Python which can be compiled and executed in a data-parallel
> fashion.  Copperhead procedures are expressed as standard, fully-legal
> Python procedures operating on Numpy datatypes, which are intercepted,
> specialized, and compiled to parallel C code at runtime, and then
> executed on a high-performance parallel platform.  Since the
> Copperhead runtime supports only a subset of Python, the runtime will
> revert to standard Python execution if specialization fails.  The
> current Copperhead runtime targets Nvidia Graphics Processors, which
> are highly suited for data-parallel computation and provide high
> performance.  In this talk, I will be discussing the current state of
> Copperhead, as well as plans for future development.
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> 


From bender at onsrc.com  Sat Nov 14 20:51:26 2009
From: bender at onsrc.com (RYAN DELUCCHI)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 11:51:26 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [ANN] Scientific Python at UC Berkeley talk for
	November 18
In-Reply-To: <4AFEE66E.80500@snaplogic.com>
References: <db6b5ecc0911140218vd3e6ea6l722a3a48bb886b1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AFEE66E.80500@snaplogic.com>
Message-ID: <BB36470D-6B20-4465-A391-0B05E34C4F08@onsrc.com>

Yet another +1

I just wish this were on the weekend.  I always jump on any excuse to  
head over to Berkeley.  It's a fun town and a common hangout between a  
friend of mine and I.

Ryan

On Nov 14, 2009, at 9:18 AM, Michael Pittaro wrote:

> +1 from me.
>
> It's good to know what happening, and it's hardly spam.
>
> Fernando Perez wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I would like to know if in general people want to get these
>> announcements regarding the UC Berkeley py4science seminars on this
>> list or not, I don't want to spam people.  But last week's event with
>> Guido drew a huge crowd, some from this list, so perhaps there is
>> interest  (obviously Guido's visit was a special event, but still
>> there may be interest in these talks amongst this group).  If there
>> isn't let me know and I won't post them again, as you can always see
>> them at the group
> -- 
> Mike Pittaro
> Co-Founder                      Snaplogic, Inc.
> mikeyp at snaplogic.com            http://www.snaplogic.com
> SnapLogic was named a Cool Vendor in Data Integration for 2009
> http://tinyurl.com/snaplogic-is-cool
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Sat Nov 14 21:23:43 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:23:43 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [ANN] Scientific Python at UC Berkeley talk for
	November 18
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-W16CEF1B897998372A46E55A0A70@phx.gbl>
References: <db6b5ecc0911140218vd3e6ea6l722a3a48bb886b1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<BAY111-W16CEF1B897998372A46E55A0A70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <85926952-D919-4E01-891D-42AEA18F30BE@gmail.com>

On Nov 14, 2009, at 02:35 , Stephen McInerney wrote:

> +1 definitely. Thanks Fernando.
> It's impossible to make it up to Berkeley during the workday otherwise I'd come.
>  
> Stephen

+1 here too. As Stephen said -- if I could make it, I'd definitely come.

>  
> > Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 02:18:32 -0800
> > From: fperez.net at gmail.com
> > To: baypiggies at python.org
> > Subject: [Baypiggies] [ANN] Scientific Python at UC Berkeley talk for November 18
> > 
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > I would like to know if in general people want to get these
> > announcements regarding the UC Berkeley py4science seminars on this
> > list or not, I don't want to spam people. But last week's event with
> > Guido drew a huge crowd, some from this list, so perhaps there is
> > interest (obviously Guido's visit was a special event, but still
> > there may be interest in these talks amongst this group). If there
> > isn't let me know and I won't post them again, as you can always see
> > them at the group page:
> > 
> > https://cirl.berkeley.edu/view/Py4Science/WebHome
> > 
> > But if you find these useful, I'm happy to send the announcements
> > here, it will be limited to just one email every 2 weeks at most.
> > 
> > So for now here's next week's, I'll refrain from posting these again
> > if so requested.
> > 
> > Next week, we will have a presentation by Bryan Catanzaro from EECS
> > on Copperhead, the system we got a glimpse of last week from his
> > lightning talk. Details below.
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > f
> > 
> > When: November 18, 2pm.
> > 
> > Where: UC Berkeley, Evans 508-20
> > 
> > Title: Copperhead: Data-Parallel Python
> > 
> > Abstract:
> > The need for productive programming languages which can avail
> > themselves of parallel hardware has never been more acute. The
> > Copperhead project attempts to address this problem by defining a
> > subset of Python which can be compiled and executed in a data-parallel
> > fashion. Copperhead procedures are expressed as standard, fully-legal
> > Python procedures operating on Numpy datatypes, which are intercepted,
> > specialized, and compiled to parallel C code at runtime, and then
> > executed on a high-performance parallel platform. Since the
> > Copperhead runtime supports only a subset of Python, the runtime will
> > revert to standard Python execution if specialization fails. The
> > current Copperhead runtime targets Nvidia Graphics Processors, which
> > are highly suited for data-parallel computation and provide high
> > performance. In this talk, I will be discussing the current state of
> > Copperhead, as well as plans for future development.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> 
> Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more. _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

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From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Mon Nov 16 10:12:54 2009
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:12:54 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [Training] Develop & Deploy: Django - class in February
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0911160112n363fa179ice8f53d0e64c8139@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Baypiggies,

C2E Training is hosting 'Develop & Deploy: Django'
February 1 - February 5, 2010
http://c2etraining100201.eventbrite.com/

the class will be at the Hacker Dojo in Mountain View.

Please pass this information on to anyone you know who would benefit from
the week long course.

Thank You :-)

Donna 'SnowWrite' Snow
Office Manager, Hacker Dojo
hackerdojo.com

Owner, C2E Training
www.c2etraining.com (dns is propogating - site'll be up soon)

Founder, GirlsLuvTech
facebook.com/girlsluvtech
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From stephen at networkxfla.com  Tue Nov 17 22:12:45 2009
From: stephen at networkxfla.com (Stephen Cox)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:12:45 -0500
Subject: [Baypiggies] Suicide
In-Reply-To: <88d9159a0911110829s31414457sf465e54d75100125@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<200911070019.42201.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90911071303u2debd256jc038948ca280c855@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u244lhf9jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<c41f67b90911091353q238d10a6te4b76c84efef3da1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091111041941.GA22371@panix.com>
	<88d9159a0911110829s31414457sf465e54d75100125@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D54C8539-0EBE-416A-BB8A-800D7640F1D3@networkxfla.com>

Pets help. Like a dog. They take you away from the screen to walk, feed and scratch, and play. Go outside, enjoy the air. And clear your mind.

I know it's not that easy. Life's trouble mount. And having code running all over the place just adds to the stress. But i find my dog is a great stress reliever. 

I wonder if I can come up with a python project involving my dog?



On Nov 11, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Asim Jalis wrote:

> I find that spending some time doing Python has the power to create
> deep happiness and might even be a cure for suicidal thoughts. So has
> anyone seen any interesting Python projects lately?
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies






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From jjinux at gmail.com  Wed Nov 18 10:36:15 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 01:36:15 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Suicide
In-Reply-To: <20091111041941.GA22371@panix.com>
References: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<200911070019.42201.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90911071303u2debd256jc038948ca280c855@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u244lhf9jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<c41f67b90911091353q238d10a6te4b76c84efef3da1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091111041941.GA22371@panix.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90911180136gd4ef1adj31e27daa036725f3@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:19 PM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 09, 2009, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
>> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Rami Chowdhury <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>> http://www.samaritans.org/
>>>
>>> Do you think something like this would work in the US? They've saved the
>>> lives of several people I know in the UK...
>>
>> It works, eh? ?That's great! ?You should post that comment on my blog
>> for any other people who are looking. ?There must be groups in the
>> US who are similar, although I don't know of any or whether they are
>> successful. ?I think that we in the FOSS world have to really look out
>> for each other because the nature of our work can really wear us down
>> over the long haul.
>
> Are you saying that there's something particular to FOSS that makes
> people more susceptible to suicide?

I'm "falling" off list just to keep traffic down.

I definitely think there's something about the nature of software that
makes people more susceptible to suicide.  We devote practically our
entire lives to our craft, and yet, the work that we produce is so
quickly thrown away.  It's frustrating.

-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From jjinux at gmail.com  Wed Nov 18 10:37:39 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 01:37:39 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Suicide
In-Reply-To: <4AFA4D26.80701@nttmcl.com>
References: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<200911070019.42201.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90911071303u2debd256jc038948ca280c855@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u244lhf9jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<c41f67b90911091353q238d10a6te4b76c84efef3da1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091111041941.GA22371@panix.com> <4AFA4D26.80701@nttmcl.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90911180137o7df2550axede5d89a66516ef9@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:35 PM, Kelly Yancey <kelly at nttmcl.com> wrote:
> Aahz wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 09, 2009, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Rami Chowdhury
>>> <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.samaritans.org/
>>>>
>>>> Do you think something like this would work in the US? They've saved the
>>>> lives of several people I know in the UK...
>>>
>>> It works, eh? ?That's great! ?You should post that comment on my blog
>>> for any other people who are looking. ?There must be groups in the
>>> US who are similar, although I don't know of any or whether they are
>>> successful. ?I think that we in the FOSS world have to really look out
>>> for each other because the nature of our work can really wear us down
>>> over the long haul.
>>
>> Are you saying that there's something particular to FOSS that makes
>> people more susceptible to suicide?
>
> It's the nit-picking. ;)

At least according to the dictionary applet I have on my desktop, that
should be spelled "nit picking".

:-P
-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From tony at tcapp.com  Wed Nov 18 16:47:23 2009
From: tony at tcapp.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 07:47:23 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Suicide
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90911180136gd4ef1adj31e27daa036725f3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<200911070019.42201.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90911071303u2debd256jc038948ca280c855@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u244lhf9jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<c41f67b90911091353q238d10a6te4b76c84efef3da1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091111041941.GA22371@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90911180136gd4ef1adj31e27daa036725f3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0911180747s2447f886n4d057136f25d7a7d@mail.gmail.com>

> >>I definitely think there's something about the nature of software that
> >>makes people more susceptible to suicide.  We devote practically our
>

I"m thinking it's more the work life silicon valley companies (and companies
in the US, in general) put us in.
-Work your butt of, high pressure schedules,  2 weeks vacation during which
you can still be on call or still feel work pressure that you can't really
enjoy the vacation.
How many of people vpn while on vacation??????
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From nick at stinemates.org  Wed Nov 18 16:48:40 2009
From: nick at stinemates.org (Nick Stinemates)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 10:48:40 -0500
Subject: [Baypiggies] Suicide
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90911180136gd4ef1adj31e27daa036725f3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<200911070019.42201.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90911071303u2debd256jc038948ca280c855@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u244lhf9jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<c41f67b90911091353q238d10a6te4b76c84efef3da1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091111041941.GA22371@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90911180136gd4ef1adj31e27daa036725f3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091118154840.GA29892@stinemates.org>

> I definitely think there's something about the nature of software that
> makes people more susceptible to suicide.  We devote practically our
> entire lives to our craft, and yet, the work that we produce is so
> quickly thrown away.  It's frustrating.
> 

Usually by our own volition! Let's face it. Engineers love to engineer.
We always know how we can do it better and think to ourselves "this time
I'll do it right!"

I wonder how often that turns out to be true? Well, I should at least be
able to let you guys know in April :)

> -jj

From nick at stinemates.org  Wed Nov 18 16:50:29 2009
From: nick at stinemates.org (Nick Stinemates)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 10:50:29 -0500
Subject: [Baypiggies] Suicide
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0911180747s2447f886n4d057136f25d7a7d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<200911070019.42201.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90911071303u2debd256jc038948ca280c855@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u244lhf9jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<c41f67b90911091353q238d10a6te4b76c84efef3da1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091111041941.GA22371@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90911180136gd4ef1adj31e27daa036725f3@mail.gmail.com>
	<8249c4ac0911180747s2447f886n4d057136f25d7a7d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091118155029.GB29892@stinemates.org>

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 07:47:23AM -0800, Tony Cappellini wrote:
> > >>I definitely think there's something about the nature of software that
> > >>makes people more susceptible to suicide.  We devote practically our
> >
> 
> I"m thinking it's more the work life silicon valley companies (and companies
> in the US, in general) put us in.
> -Work your butt of, high pressure schedules,  2 weeks vacation during which
> you can still be on call or still feel work pressure that you can't really
> enjoy the vacation.

I have 7 weeks of vacation saved up. I guess I (we?) put as much
pressure on ourselves if driven to succeed.

> How many of people vpn while on vacation??????

Guilty as charged (except ssh tunnel > VPN :)

> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From jim at well.com  Wed Nov 18 17:46:39 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 08:46:39 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday November 19,
	2009: Python in	Computational Biology and Chemistry
Message-ID: <1258562799.8131.21.camel@jim-laptop>


(NOTE: Because of Thanksgiving, BayPIGgies meets in November 
on the third, not the fourth, Thursday of the month. 

And next month BayPIGiges will meet on December 14: the 
second MONDAY of the month.) 


BayPIGgies meeting Thursday November 19, 2009: 

Tonight's talk is 
* Python in Computational Biology and Chemistry 
by Andrew Dalke 

Meetings start with a Newbie Nugget, a short discussion of an 
essential Python feature, especially for those new to Python. 
Tonight's Newbie Nugget: chaining operators 

LOCATION 
Symantec Corporation
Symantec Vcafe
350 Ellis Street
Mountain View, CA 94043
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=w6i_Sfr6MZmQsQOzlv0v&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116202735295394761637.00046550c09ff3d96bff1&ll=37.397693,-122.053707&spn=0.002902,0.004828&z=18

BayPIGgies meeting information is available at 
http://www.baypiggies.net/ 


------------------------ Agenda ------------------------
 
..... 7:30 PM ...........................
General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any 
first-minute announcements. 


..... 7:35 PM to 7:40 PM ................
Newbie Nugget: chaining operators 


..... 7:40 PM to 8:45 PM (or so) ................

Python in Computational Biology and Chemistry 
by Andrew Dalke 

Andrew will describe how Python is used in molecular modeling, 
bioinformatics, chemoinformatics, and related fields. 

Wait! Don't leave! 

You're not a researcher in these fields and he knows it. He's 
going to give a taste of what the underlying problems are in some 
of those subfields, an idea of what Python tools are available 
and describe a few of the reasons why sometimes Perl, FORTRAN, or 
another language is the dominate language for that some that domain. 
There will be some colorful pictures. He'll also include a bit of 
what it's like to be a software developer in a scientific field.

LINKS: http://dalkescientific.com/writings/


..... 8:45 PM to 9:20 PM  ................
Mapping and Random Access

Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of issues, hiring, 
events, and other topics. 

Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up individually 
on the announcements and other interests.



From ohgarden at cox.net  Wed Nov 18 18:24:01 2009
From: ohgarden at cox.net (Tom Michel)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 10:24:01 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Suicide
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0911180747s2447f886n4d057136f25d7a7d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90911062217u75ca3fa9h380c6d99afe27eb9@mail.gmail.com>	<200911070019.42201.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>	<c41f67b90911071303u2debd256jc038948ca280c855@mail.gmail.com>	<op.u244lhf9jvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>	<c41f67b90911091353q238d10a6te4b76c84efef3da1@mail.gmail.com>	<20091111041941.GA22371@panix.com>	<c41f67b90911180136gd4ef1adj31e27daa036725f3@mail.gmail.com>
	<8249c4ac0911180747s2447f886n4d057136f25d7a7d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B042DB1.1030209@cox.net>

The unhealthy work situation comes from the top - it's a de facto 
company philosophy.  My last boss had no children and he and his wife 
worked.  He would arrive at 9 AM and work until 7 PM.  Then go home, eat 
and resume working from home until 11 PM or midnight.   And he judged 
others by that standard.  It's insane.

My daughter works for a large, very well known company in SJ and 50 hour 
weeks are the expected minimum.  This amid a reduction in the perks that 
attracted good people.



Tony Cappellini wrote:
>
>     >>I definitely think there's something about the nature of
>     software that
>     >>makes people more susceptible to suicide.  We devote practically our
>
>  
> I"m thinking it's more the work life silicon valley companies (and 
> companies in the US, in general) put us in.
> -Work your butt of, high pressure schedules,  2 weeks vacation during 
> which you can still be on call or still feel work pressure that you 
> can't really enjoy the vacation.
> How many of people vpn while on vacation??????
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Thu Nov 19 19:03:40 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:03:40 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Video Taping tonight
Message-ID: <e5660d770911191003j321e693bh73ee4e39155d304f@mail.gmail.com>

As always I try to video tape the meetings. However, limited equipment and
very little time to setup (we usually can only get in a few moments before)
has made things difficult.

We are becoming a team. I will bring all of the equipment (it's here at work
with me), -- INCLUDING an male-to-male audio cable for the microphones.

We have the same need as last month -- capturing microphone input! If not,
the camera does an adequate job (but not nearly as good).

I will be announcing and other things so any help we can get to get setup,
and start on time, would be greatly appreciated. I'm leaving Berkeley (work)
at 4 p.m. today and will be CalTraining/Light Railing down -- I think that's
enough time. Talk to me off list if you want to pitch in (we had some great
help last month :))

Warmest Regards,


Glen Jarvis
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From glen at glenjarvis.com  Thu Nov 19 19:06:52 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:06:52 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Last month's videos
Message-ID: <e5660d770911191006t7c19bec9ka1894f4f365ac289@mail.gmail.com>

We had four speakers last month: Richard, Eddy, Simeon and myself.

I have gotten the videos for Richard and Simeon already sent. I will work on
getting Eddy's pulled off of tape and made into something you could see
online today.

Warmest Regards,


Glen Jarvis
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From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 19:14:23 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:14:23 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Video Taping tonight
In-Reply-To: <e5660d770911191003j321e693bh73ee4e39155d304f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e5660d770911191003j321e693bh73ee4e39155d304f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u3nl99rejvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:03:40 -0800, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com>  
wrote:

> As always I try to video tape the meetings. However, limited equipment  
> and
> very little time to setup (we usually can only get in a few moments  
> before)
> has made things difficult.
>
> We are becoming a team. I will bring all of the equipment (it's here at  
> work
> with me), -- INCLUDING an male-to-male audio cable for the microphones.
>
> We have the same need as last month -- capturing microphone input! If  
> not,
> the camera does an adequate job (but not nearly as good).
>

Hi Glen,

How well did things work last month with Alan's laptop? If it'd be  
helpful, I do have a Macbook Pro with Audacity on it and a few free GB of  
disk space, that I'd be happy to bring along...

> I will be announcing and other things so any help we can get to get  
> setup,
> and start on time, would be greatly appreciated. I'm leaving Berkeley  
> (work)
> at 4 p.m. today and will be CalTraining/Light Railing down -- I think  
> that's
> enough time. Talk to me off list if you want to pitch in (we had some  
> great
> help last month :))
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
>
> Glen Jarvis



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Thu Nov 19 19:18:35 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:18:35 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Video Taping tonight
In-Reply-To: <op.u3nl99rejvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
References: <e5660d770911191003j321e693bh73ee4e39155d304f@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u3nl99rejvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
Message-ID: <D3D56049-3155-4210-B975-1C4EF044E2D4@glenjarvis.com>


On Nov 19, 2009, at 10:14 AM, Rami Chowdhury wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:03:40 -0800, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
> 
>> As always I try to video tape the meetings. However, limited equipment and
>> very little time to setup (we usually can only get in a few moments before)
>> has made things difficult.
>> 
>> We are becoming a team. I will bring all of the equipment (it's here at work
>> with me), -- INCLUDING an male-to-male audio cable for the microphones.
>> 
>> We have the same need as last month -- capturing microphone input! If not,
>> the camera does an adequate job (but not nearly as good).
>> 
> 
> Hi Glen,
> 
> How well did things work last month with Alan's laptop? If it'd be helpful, I do have a Macbook Pro with Audacity on it and a few free GB of disk space, that I'd be happy to bring along...

We didn't get to use it at all because I forgot an audio adaptor cable :(   So, the video that has been posted has *only* been the audio from the camera.

If Pro's have a line-in like the normal Macbooks have, I'm sure it will be smashing :)   


Cheers,


Glen
--
415-680-3964
glen at glenjarvis.com
http://www.glenjarvis.com

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi




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From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 19:21:40 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:21:40 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Video Taping tonight
In-Reply-To: <D3D56049-3155-4210-B975-1C4EF044E2D4@glenjarvis.com>
References: <e5660d770911191003j321e693bh73ee4e39155d304f@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u3nl99rejvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<D3D56049-3155-4210-B975-1C4EF044E2D4@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <op.u3nmmertjvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:18:35 -0800, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com>  
wrote:
>
> If Pro's have a line-in like the normal Macbooks have, I'm sure it will  
> be smashing :)
>

IIRC mine does -- I'll bring it along tonight, then :-)

Cheers,
Rami

-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)

From bender at onsrc.com  Thu Nov 19 20:35:26 2009
From: bender at onsrc.com (RYAN DELUCCHI)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:35:26 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] pre-meeting dinner?
In-Reply-To: <D3D56049-3155-4210-B975-1C4EF044E2D4@glenjarvis.com>
References: <e5660d770911191003j321e693bh73ee4e39155d304f@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u3nl99rejvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<D3D56049-3155-4210-B975-1C4EF044E2D4@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <38128E25-7264-4BFD-A889-DB65273EDE65@onsrc.com>

Hey folks,

So I will be making the drive out from Pleasanton to the meeting  
tonight.  My plan is to leave here at 5 PM.  My office is right next  
to 580 so according to Google leaving at this time gives me a 25  
minute buffer -- for a 6 PM arrival.

Regarding dinner: anyone have suggestions as to where we can meet?  I  
hear there is a cafe on the Symantec campus: is that a good option?

Ryan

From bender at onsrc.com  Thu Nov 19 21:28:12 2009
From: bender at onsrc.com (RYAN DELUCCHI)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:28:12 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] pre-PIGgies dinner
References: <13346D6C-EB33-4DDE-96AF-C772087968F5@onsrc.com>
Message-ID: <40390374-AAC5-47DF-BA50-EBA4541B168B@onsrc.com>

So, anyone for dinner on Castro at roughly 6 PM?

Ryan

Begin forwarded message:

> From: RYAN DELUCCHI <bender at onsrc.com>
> Date: November 19, 2009 11:55:54 AM PST
> To: Alison Chaiken <alchaiken at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: pre-PIGgies dinner
>
> Actually I should be arriving at 6 PM, at the latest ... my drive is  
> a reverse commute so that seems to me like a conservative estimate,  
> right?
>
> So, Castro sounds good to me.  you know if any others are interested  
> in joining in for dinner?
>
> Ryan
>
> On Nov 19, 2009, at 11:42 AM, Alison Chaiken wrote:
>
>> I earlier posted and suggested a dinner on Castro Street, which is
>> quite nearby the Symantec site.    Your options are limited with 25
>> minutes though; obviously, the drive could easily take longer.
>>
>> As far as I can make out, the Symantec cafe is closed at night.
>>
>> -- 
>> Alison Chaiken
>> (650) 279-5600  (cell)  		                                	
>>   http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/
>> The weak shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights.  -- J.
>> Paul Getty via Peter Maass
>

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From rolf.h.d.nelson at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 22:37:17 2009
From: rolf.h.d.nelson at gmail.com (Rolf Nelson)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:37:17 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] pre-PIGgies dinner
In-Reply-To: <40390374-AAC5-47DF-BA50-EBA4541B168B@onsrc.com>
References: <13346D6C-EB33-4DDE-96AF-C772087968F5@onsrc.com>
	<40390374-AAC5-47DF-BA50-EBA4541B168B@onsrc.com>
Message-ID: <79ecaa350911191337t1127aa0t925fd6f2ec2c6ac5@mail.gmail.com>

Count me in.

-Rolf

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 12:28 PM, RYAN DELUCCHI <bender at onsrc.com> wrote:

> So, anyone for dinner on Castro at roughly 6 PM?
>
> Ryan
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *RYAN DELUCCHI <bender at onsrc.com>
> *Date: *November 19, 2009 11:55:54 AM PST
> *To: *Alison Chaiken <alchaiken at gmail.com>
> *Subject: **Re: pre-PIGgies dinner*
>
> Actually I should be arriving at 6 PM, at the latest ... my drive is a
> reverse commute so that seems to me like a conservative estimate, right?
>
> So, Castro sounds good to me.  you know if any others are interested in
> joining in for dinner?
>
> Ryan
>
> On Nov 19, 2009, at 11:42 AM, Alison Chaiken wrote:
>
> I earlier posted and suggested a dinner on Castro Street, which is
>
> quite nearby the Symantec site.    Your options are limited with 25
>
> minutes though; obviously, the drive could easily take longer.
>
>
> As far as I can make out, the Symantec cafe is closed at night.
>
>
> --
>
> Alison Chaiken
>
> (650) 279-5600  (cell)
>
>   http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/
>
> The weak shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights.  -- J.
>
> Paul Getty via Peter Maass
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From laban.patrick at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 23:52:44 2009
From: laban.patrick at gmail.com (Patrick Laban)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:52:44 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] pre-PIGgies dinner
In-Reply-To: <5ee958ff0911191450s286e0920ge1db426e7bb71c92@mail.gmail.com>
References: <13346D6C-EB33-4DDE-96AF-C772087968F5@onsrc.com> 
	<40390374-AAC5-47DF-BA50-EBA4541B168B@onsrc.com>
	<5ee958ff0911191409vc9a9c46icf39d8ec6f4afe55@mail.gmail.com> 
	<5E11829E-AA16-4F5B-A544-DDDD5415A233@onsrc.com>
	<5ee958ff0911191422q2d7265f2p281acae52c7f96d9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<396513A7-F457-4CB9-AC45-B3C346D7EFBA@onsrc.com>
	<5ee958ff0911191449s4ec29fa5l329f8aefe95c76e3@mail.gmail.com> 
	<5ee958ff0911191450s286e0920ge1db426e7bb71c92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5ee958ff0911191452o5dfa2fc5y3dd4fbad368022d0@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Can anyone give me a ride to the meeting afterwards?
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From ken at seehart.com  Fri Nov 20 00:11:15 2009
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:11:15 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] pre-PIGgies dinner
In-Reply-To: <40390374-AAC5-47DF-BA50-EBA4541B168B@onsrc.com>
References: <13346D6C-EB33-4DDE-96AF-C772087968F5@onsrc.com>
	<40390374-AAC5-47DF-BA50-EBA4541B168B@onsrc.com>
Message-ID: <4B05D093.2020201@seehart.com>

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From ken at seehart.com  Fri Nov 20 00:17:42 2009
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:17:42 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] pre-PIGgies dinner
In-Reply-To: <5ee958ff0911191452o5dfa2fc5y3dd4fbad368022d0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <13346D6C-EB33-4DDE-96AF-C772087968F5@onsrc.com>
	<40390374-AAC5-47DF-BA50-EBA4541B168B@onsrc.com>	<5ee958ff0911191409vc9a9c46icf39d8ec6f4afe55@mail.gmail.com>
	<5E11829E-AA16-4F5B-A544-DDDD5415A233@onsrc.com>	<5ee958ff0911191422q2d7265f2p281acae52c7f96d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<396513A7-F457-4CB9-AC45-B3C346D7EFBA@onsrc.com>	<5ee958ff0911191449s4ec29fa5l329f8aefe95c76e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<5ee958ff0911191450s286e0920ge1db426e7bb71c92@mail.gmail.com>
	<5ee958ff0911191452o5dfa2fc5y3dd4fbad368022d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B05D216.7060101@seehart.com>

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From nick at stinemates.org  Fri Nov 20 00:29:06 2009
From: nick at stinemates.org (Nick Stinemates)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:29:06 -0500
Subject: [Baypiggies] pre-PIGgies dinner
In-Reply-To: <4B05D093.2020201@seehart.com>
References: <13346D6C-EB33-4DDE-96AF-C772087968F5@onsrc.com>
	<40390374-AAC5-47DF-BA50-EBA4541B168B@onsrc.com>
	<4B05D093.2020201@seehart.com>
Message-ID: <20091119232906.GA2486@stinemates.org>

This has to be the worst email I've ever received on a mailing list :(

Please provide a plaintext view!

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 03:11:15PM -0800, Ken Seehart wrote:
> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
> <html>
> <head>
>   <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
> </head>
> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
> +1 <br>
> <br>
> But, there are a lot of restaurants on Castro Street.&nbsp; If I were a CUDA
> program I could show up at all of them at 6pm, and exit if no else is
> present.<br>
> Ken<br>
> <br>
> RYAN DELUCCHI wrote:
> <blockquote cite="mid:40390374-AAC5-47DF-BA50-EBA4541B168B at onsrc.com"
>  type="cite">So, anyone for dinner on Castro at roughly 6 PM?
>   <div><br>
>   </div>
>   <div>Ryan<br>
>   <div><br>
>   <div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
>   <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
>   <blockquote type="cite">
>     <div>
>     <div style="margin: 0px;"><font
>  style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
>  color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="3"><b>From: </b></font><font
>  style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"
>  face="Helvetica" size="3">RYAN DELUCCHI &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
>  href="mailto:bender at onsrc.com">bender at onsrc.com</a>&gt;</font></div>
>     <div style="margin: 0px;"><font
>  style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
>  color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="3"><b>Date: </b></font><font
>  style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"
>  face="Helvetica" size="3">November 19, 2009 11:55:54 AM PST</font></div>
>     <div style="margin: 0px;"><font
>  style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
>  color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="3"><b>To: </b></font><font
>  style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"
>  face="Helvetica" size="3">Alison Chaiken &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
>  href="mailto:alchaiken at gmail.com">alchaiken at gmail.com</a>&gt;</font></div>
>     <div style="margin: 0px;"><font
>  style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
>  color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="3"><b>Subject: </b></font><font
>  style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"
>  face="Helvetica" size="3"><b>Re: pre-PIGgies dinner</b></font></div>
>     <div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br>
>     </div>
>     </div>
>     <div>Actually I should be arriving at 6 PM, at the latest ... my
> drive is a reverse commute so that seems to me like a conservative
> estimate, right?<br>
>     <br>
> So, Castro sounds good to me. &nbsp;you know if any others are interested in
> joining in for dinner?<br>
>     <br>
> Ryan<br>
>     <br>
> On Nov 19, 2009, at 11:42 AM, Alison Chaiken wrote:<br>
>     <br>
>     <blockquote type="cite">I earlier posted and suggested a dinner on
> Castro Street, which is<br>
>     </blockquote>
>     <blockquote type="cite">quite nearby the Symantec site. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Your
> options are limited with 25<br>
>     </blockquote>
>     <blockquote type="cite">minutes though; obviously, the drive could
> easily take longer.<br>
>     </blockquote>
>     <blockquote type="cite"><br>
>     </blockquote>
>     <blockquote type="cite">As far as I can make out, the Symantec cafe
> is closed at night.<br>
>     </blockquote>
>     <blockquote type="cite"><br>
>     </blockquote>
>     <blockquote type="cite">-- <br>
>     </blockquote>
>     <blockquote type="cite">Alison Chaiken<br>
>     </blockquote>
>     <blockquote type="cite">(650) 279-5600 &nbsp;(cell) &nbsp;<span
>  class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span><span
>  class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>
> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span class="Apple-tab-span"
>  style="white-space: pre;"> </span><br>
>     </blockquote>
>     <blockquote type="cite"> &nbsp;&nbsp;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
>  href="http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/">http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/</a><br>
>     </blockquote>
>     <blockquote type="cite">The weak shall inherit the earth, but not
> the mineral rights. &nbsp;-- J.<br>
>     </blockquote>
>     <blockquote type="cite">Paul Getty via Peter Maass<br>
>     </blockquote>
>     <br>
>     </div>
>   </blockquote>
>   </div>
>   <br>
>   </div>
>   <pre wrap="">
> <hr size="4" width="90%">
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Baypiggies at python.org">Baypiggies at python.org</a>
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies">http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies</a></pre>
> </blockquote>
> <br>
> </body>
> </html>

> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From bender at onsrc.com  Fri Nov 20 00:36:34 2009
From: bender at onsrc.com (RYAN DELUCCHI)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:36:34 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] pre-PIGgies dinner
In-Reply-To: <4B05D093.2020201@seehart.com>
References: <13346D6C-EB33-4DDE-96AF-C772087968F5@onsrc.com>
	<40390374-AAC5-47DF-BA50-EBA4541B168B@onsrc.com>
	<4B05D093.2020201@seehart.com>
Message-ID: <979DA647-5BC7-4373-8243-3B4CB0A7EEB8@onsrc.com>

It looks like the final decision is Le
Boulanger

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 19, 2009, at 3:11 PM, Ken Seehart <ken at seehart.com> wrote:

> +1
>
> But, there are a lot of restaurants on Castro Street.  If I were a  
> CUDA program I could show up at all of them at 6pm, and exit if no  
> else is present.
> Ken
>
> RYAN DELUCCHI wrote:
>>
>> So, anyone for dinner on Castro at roughly 6 PM?
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: RYAN DELUCCHI <bender at onsrc.com>
>>> Date: November 19, 2009 11:55:54 AM PST
>>> To: Alison Chaiken <alchaiken at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: pre-PIGgies dinner
>>>
>>> Actually I should be arriving at 6 PM, at the latest ... my drive  
>>> is a reverse commute so that seems to me like a conservative  
>>> estimate, right?
>>>
>>> So, Castro sounds good to me.  you know if any others are  
>>> interested in joining in for dinner?
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>> On Nov 19, 2009, at 11:42 AM, Alison Chaiken wrote:
>>>
>>>> I earlier posted and suggested a dinner on Castro Street, which is
>>>
>>>> quite nearby the Symantec site.    Your options are limited with 25
>>>
>>>> minutes though; obviously, the drive could easily take longer.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> As far as I can make out, the Symantec cafe is closed at night.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>
>>>> Alison Chaiken
>>>
>>>> (650) 279-5600  (cell)
>>>
>>>>   http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/
>>>
>>>> The weak shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights.  --  
>>>> J.
>>>
>>>> Paul Getty via Peter Maass
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From bender at onsrc.com  Fri Nov 20 00:49:50 2009
From: bender at onsrc.com (RYAN DELUCCHI)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:49:50 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] pre-PIGgies dinner
In-Reply-To: <20091119232906.GA2486@stinemates.org>
References: <13346D6C-EB33-4DDE-96AF-C772087968F5@onsrc.com>
	<40390374-AAC5-47DF-BA50-EBA4541B168B@onsrc.com>
	<4B05D093.2020201@seehart.com>
	<20091119232906.GA2486@stinemates.org>
Message-ID: <AA28C669-A5FA-4430-B42A-438C4EF6AFD9@onsrc.com>

Now now ... let's not be too hard on him.

At least he took the time to add a <!DOCTYPE> tag :-)

Ryan

On Nov 19, 2009, at 3:29 PM, Nick Stinemates wrote:

> This has to be the worst email I've ever received on a mailing list :(
>
> Please provide a plaintext view!
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 03:11:15PM -0800, Ken Seehart wrote:
>> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
>> <html>
>> <head>
>>  <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content- 
>> Type">
>> </head>
>> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
>> +1 <br>
>> <br>
>> But, there are a lot of restaurants on Castro Street.&nbsp; If I  
>> were a CUDA
>> program I could show up at all of them at 6pm, and exit if no else is
>> present.<br>
>> Ken<br>
>> <br>
>> RYAN DELUCCHI wrote:
>> <blockquote cite="mid:40390374-AAC5-47DF-BA50-EBA4541B168B at onsrc.com"
>> type="cite">So, anyone for dinner on Castro at roughly 6 PM?
>>  <div><br>
>>  </div>
>>  <div>Ryan<br>
>>  <div><br>
>>  <div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
>>  <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
>>  <blockquote type="cite">
>>    <div>
>>    <div style="margin: 0px;"><font
>> style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant:  
>> normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;  
>> font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
>> color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="3"><b>From: </b></font><font
>> style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant:  
>> normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;  
>> font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"
>> face="Helvetica" size="3">RYAN DELUCCHI &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
>> href="mailto:bender at onsrc.com">bender at onsrc.com</a>&gt;</font></div>
>>    <div style="margin: 0px;"><font
>> style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant:  
>> normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;  
>> font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
>> color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="3"><b>Date: </b></font><font
>> style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant:  
>> normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;  
>> font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"
>> face="Helvetica" size="3">November 19, 2009 11:55:54 AM PST</font></ 
>> div>
>>    <div style="margin: 0px;"><font
>> style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant:  
>> normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;  
>> font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
>> color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="3"><b>To: </b></font><font
>> style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant:  
>> normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;  
>> font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"
>> face="Helvetica" size="3">Alison Chaiken &lt;<a moz-do-not- 
>> send="true"
>> href="mailto:alchaiken at gmail.com">alchaiken at gmail.com</a>&gt;</ 
>> font></div>
>>    <div style="margin: 0px;"><font
>> style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant:  
>> normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;  
>> font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
>> color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="3"><b>Subject: </b></ 
>> font><font
>> style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant:  
>> normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;  
>> font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"
>> face="Helvetica" size="3"><b>Re: pre-PIGgies dinner</b></font></div>
>>    <div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br>
>>    </div>
>>    </div>
>>    <div>Actually I should be arriving at 6 PM, at the latest ... my
>> drive is a reverse commute so that seems to me like a conservative
>> estimate, right?<br>
>>    <br>
>> So, Castro sounds good to me. &nbsp;you know if any others are  
>> interested in
>> joining in for dinner?<br>
>>    <br>
>> Ryan<br>
>>    <br>
>> On Nov 19, 2009, at 11:42 AM, Alison Chaiken wrote:<br>
>>    <br>
>>    <blockquote type="cite">I earlier posted and suggested a dinner on
>> Castro Street, which is<br>
>>    </blockquote>
>>    <blockquote type="cite">quite nearby the Symantec site.  
>> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Your
>> options are limited with 25<br>
>>    </blockquote>
>>    <blockquote type="cite">minutes though; obviously, the drive could
>> easily take longer.<br>
>>    </blockquote>
>>    <blockquote type="cite"><br>
>>    </blockquote>
>>    <blockquote type="cite">As far as I can make out, the Symantec  
>> cafe
>> is closed at night.<br>
>>    </blockquote>
>>    <blockquote type="cite"><br>
>>    </blockquote>
>>    <blockquote type="cite">-- <br>
>>    </blockquote>
>>    <blockquote type="cite">Alison Chaiken<br>
>>    </blockquote>
>>    <blockquote type="cite">(650) 279-5600 &nbsp;(cell) &nbsp;<span
>> class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span><span
>> class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>
>> &nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp 
>> ;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span  
>> class="Apple-tab-span"
>> style="white-space: pre;"> </span><br>
>>    </blockquote>
>>    <blockquote type="cite"> &nbsp;&nbsp;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
>> href="http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/">http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/ 
>> </a><br>
>>    </blockquote>
>>    <blockquote type="cite">The weak shall inherit the earth, but not
>> the mineral rights. &nbsp;-- J.<br>
>>    </blockquote>
>>    <blockquote type="cite">Paul Getty via Peter Maass<br>
>>    </blockquote>
>>    <br>
>>    </div>
>>  </blockquote>
>>  </div>
>>  <br>
>>  </div>
>>  <pre wrap="">
>> <hr size="4" width="90%">
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Baypiggies at python.org 
>> ">Baypiggies at python.org</a>
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies 
>> ">http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies</a></pre>
>> </blockquote>
>> <br>
>> </body>
>> </html>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From keith at dartworks.biz  Fri Nov 20 00:58:04 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:58:04 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] pre-PIGgies dinner
In-Reply-To: <20091119232906.GA2486@stinemates.org>
References: <13346D6C-EB33-4DDE-96AF-C772087968F5@onsrc.com>
	<40390374-AAC5-47DF-BA50-EBA4541B168B@onsrc.com>
	<4B05D093.2020201@seehart.com>
	<20091119232906.GA2486@stinemates.org>
Message-ID: <20091119155804.48b21101@dartworks.biz>

=== On Thu, 11/19, Nick Stinemates wrote: ===
> This has to be the worst email I've ever received on a mailing list :(

===

What email client/program are you using?

FYI, claws-mail with an HTML render plugin can deal with it. 


-- Keith Dart

-- 
-- --------------------
Keith Dart
<keith at dartworks.biz>
=======================

From wescpy at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 00:59:28 2009
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:59:28 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] pre-PIGgies dinner
In-Reply-To: <20091119232906.GA2486@stinemates.org>
References: <13346D6C-EB33-4DDE-96AF-C772087968F5@onsrc.com>
	<40390374-AAC5-47DF-BA50-EBA4541B168B@onsrc.com>
	<4B05D093.2020201@seehart.com> <20091119232906.GA2486@stinemates.org>
Message-ID: <78b3a9580911191559v1fd18792nf8049c4937712e62@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Nick Stinemates <nick at stinemates.org> wrote:
> This has to be the worst email I've ever received on a mailing list :(
>
> Please provide a plaintext view!
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 03:11:15PM -0800, Ken Seehart wrote:
>> Possible Suggestion: Cafe Yulong.  Does that sound good to everyone?


i can't make it to the meeting nor dinner tonite, but it it's not too
late, when brian organized the pre-meeting dinners, this was the place
he chose. linky here:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/cafe-yulong-mountain-view

cheers,
-- wesley
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Python Web Development with Django", Addison Wesley, (c) 2009
    http://withdjango.com

wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
python training and technical consulting
cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
http://cyberwebconsulting.com

From wescpy at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 01:25:05 2009
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:25:05 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] pre-PIGgies dinner
In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580911191559v1fd18792nf8049c4937712e62@mail.gmail.com>
References: <13346D6C-EB33-4DDE-96AF-C772087968F5@onsrc.com>
	<40390374-AAC5-47DF-BA50-EBA4541B168B@onsrc.com>
	<4B05D093.2020201@seehart.com> <20091119232906.GA2486@stinemates.org>
	<78b3a9580911191559v1fd18792nf8049c4937712e62@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78b3a9580911191625r78d9d979w463e6c42ae051e89@mail.gmail.com>

> RYAN DELUCCHI <bender at onsrc.com> wrote:
> It looks like the final decision is Le Boulanger

ok, for those who are mobile, here's the yelp link to the castro LB:

http://www.yelp.com/biz/le-boulanger-mountain-view

-- wesley
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001
"Python Fundamentals", Prentice Hall, (c)2009
    http://corepython.com

wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
python training and technical consulting
cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
http://cyberwebconsulting.com

From nick at stinemates.org  Fri Nov 20 02:55:05 2009
From: nick at stinemates.org (Nick Stinemates)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:55:05 -0500
Subject: [Baypiggies] pre-PIGgies dinner
In-Reply-To: <20091119155804.48b21101@dartworks.biz>
References: <13346D6C-EB33-4DDE-96AF-C772087968F5@onsrc.com>
	<40390374-AAC5-47DF-BA50-EBA4541B168B@onsrc.com>
	<4B05D093.2020201@seehart.com>
	<20091119232906.GA2486@stinemates.org>
	<20091119155804.48b21101@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <20091120015505.GA2869@stinemates.org>


On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 03:58:04PM -0800, Keith Dart wrote:
> === On Thu, 11/19, Nick Stinemates wrote: ===
> > This has to be the worst email I've ever received on a mailing list :(
> 
> ===
> 
> What email client/program are you using?

Mutt
> 
> FYI, claws-mail with an HTML render plugin can deal with it. 
> 
No thanks. Including a plaintext version is what most sane email clients
should do.
> 
> -- Keith Dart
> 
> -- 
> -- --------------------
> Keith Dart
> <keith at dartworks.biz>
> =======================

From asimjalis at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 03:01:49 2009
From: asimjalis at gmail.com (Asim Jalis)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:01:49 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] pre-PIGgies dinner
In-Reply-To: <20091120015505.GA2869@stinemates.org>
References: <13346D6C-EB33-4DDE-96AF-C772087968F5@onsrc.com>
	<40390374-AAC5-47DF-BA50-EBA4541B168B@onsrc.com>
	<4B05D093.2020201@seehart.com> <20091119232906.GA2486@stinemates.org>
	<20091119155804.48b21101@dartworks.biz>
	<20091120015505.GA2869@stinemates.org>
Message-ID: <88d9159a0911191801u33074411ic031da53512e9770@mail.gmail.com>

Mutt can be configured to render HTML (using lynx or elinks). The mutt
faq [1] has a pretty good description of how to do it.

[1] http://www.fefe.de/muttfaq/faq.html

> Q: I keep getting HTML attachments.
>
> A: Yes. And with recent Mutt versions, there is help. Just add
> one of these to your ~/.mailcap:
>
>   text/html; lynx -force_html %s; needsterminal;
>   text/html; elinks -default-mime-type text/html %s; needsterminal;
>
> Alternatively you can use autoview, which makes mutt display
> the attachments inline. Then you have to add set
> implicit_autoview to your muttrc and one of these to your
> ~/.mailcap:
>
>   text/html; lynx -dump -force_html %s; needsterminal; copiousoutput;
>   text/html; elinks -dump -dump-charset iso-8859-15 -default-mime-type text/html %s; needsterminal; copiousoutput;
>
> I recommend elinks over lynx because of its superior HTML rendering.

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Nick Stinemates <nick at stinemates.org> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 03:58:04PM -0800, Keith Dart wrote:
>> === On Thu, 11/19, Nick Stinemates wrote: ===
>> > This has to be the worst email I've ever received on a mailing list :(
>>
>> ===
>>
>> What email client/program are you using?
>
> Mutt
>>
>> FYI, claws-mail with an HTML render plugin can deal with it.
>>
> No thanks. Including a plaintext version is what most sane email clients
> should do.
>>
>> -- Keith Dart
>>
>> --
>> -- --------------------
>> Keith Dart
>> <keith at dartworks.biz>
>> =======================
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From voidref at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 03:06:35 2009
From: voidref at gmail.com (Alan Westbrook)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:06:35 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Video Taping tonight
In-Reply-To: <op.u3nmmertjvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
References: <e5660d770911191003j321e693bh73ee4e39155d304f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<op.u3nl99rejvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<D3D56049-3155-4210-B975-1C4EF044E2D4@glenjarvis.com> 
	<op.u3nmmertjvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
Message-ID: <5df1e9b00911191806u709efbfdob73ffbd53e25a062@mail.gmail.com>

I'm afraid I am out-sick today, came down with somethign oogy, and don't
really want to give it to all of you.

So I won't be able to make it this time, sorry about that! It would have
been good to do dinner with all you guys as well. =(

Just make sure you know how to capture the audio before the lecture starts.

I found a good app called TapeDeck which does a nice job:
http://tapedeckapp.com/

Although I am sure Garage Band can also do it. =)

Alan

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Rami Chowdhury
<rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:18:35 -0800, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> If Pro's have a line-in like the normal Macbooks have, I'm sure it will be
>> smashing :)
>>
>>
> IIRC mine does -- I'll bring it along tonight, then :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Rami
>
>
> --
> Rami Chowdhury
> "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --
> Hanlon's Razor
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Nov 20 03:16:32 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:16:32 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] pre-PIGgies dinner
In-Reply-To: <20091120015505.GA2869@stinemates.org>
References: <13346D6C-EB33-4DDE-96AF-C772087968F5@onsrc.com>
	<40390374-AAC5-47DF-BA50-EBA4541B168B@onsrc.com>
	<4B05D093.2020201@seehart.com>
	<20091119232906.GA2486@stinemates.org>
	<20091119155804.48b21101@dartworks.biz>
	<20091120015505.GA2869@stinemates.org>
Message-ID: <20091120021632.GA26358@panix.com>

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009, Nick Stinemates wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 03:58:04PM -0800, Keith Dart wrote:
>> 
>> What email client/program are you using?
> 
> Mutt

+1  ;-)

>> FYI, claws-mail with an HTML render plugin can deal with it. 
> 
> No thanks. Including a plaintext version is what most sane email clients
> should do.

s/most/all/
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by
definition, not smart enough to debug it."  --Brian W. Kernighan

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Fri Nov 20 09:43:53 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:43:53 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Google Wave i-cron extension
Message-ID: <e5660d770911200043h6a937f67qe14b33e7acef3f39@mail.gmail.com>

I'm only now coming up to speed with Google Wave. I got my invite, I logged
in, I got the two waves from Dr. Wave... and then crickets chirped. I didn't
know anyone else who was currently on Google Wave and didn't see the power
of it...

It sat a week or two.. and then.. *POW*... I suddenly see the power of it --
especially with the extensions. I see this i-cron extension "evaluates
Python expressions. Looks at blips in event, searches for CALC() macros and
executes Python code using exec()."

Has anyone used this yet? Does it merit a newbie nugget (hopefully from
someone else)?...

Cheers,


Glen
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From glen at glenjarvis.com  Fri Nov 20 09:57:35 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:57:35 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Google Wave i-cron extension/Syntaxy Python
	checking/Ploneybot Plone CMS
Message-ID: <e5660d770911200057j21860a66te0792ea40f942d16@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, and it seems a Syntaxy extension (Python and other language syntax
checking) and Ploneybot (brings wave editing capabilities to Plone (in
progress).

Glen

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 12:43 AM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:

> I'm only now coming up to speed with Google Wave. I got my invite, I logged
> in, I got the two waves from Dr. Wave... and then crickets chirped. I didn't
> know anyone else who was currently on Google Wave and didn't see the power
> of it...
>
> It sat a week or two.. and then.. *POW*... I suddenly see the power of it
> -- especially with the extensions. I see this i-cron extension "evaluates
> Python expressions. Looks at blips in event, searches for CALC() macros and
> executes Python code using exec()."
>
> Has anyone used this yet? Does it merit a newbie nugget (hopefully from
> someone else)?...
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Glen
>
>
>
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From nick at stinemates.org  Fri Nov 20 17:35:59 2009
From: nick at stinemates.org (Nick Stinemates)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:35:59 -0500
Subject: [Baypiggies] Google Wave i-cron extension/Syntaxy Python
 checking/Ploneybot Plone CMS
In-Reply-To: <e5660d770911200057j21860a66te0792ea40f942d16@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e5660d770911200057j21860a66te0792ea40f942d16@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091120163559.GA5382@stinemates.org>

Let's be friends. nstinemates at g mail dot com

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 12:57:35AM -0800, Glen Jarvis wrote:
> Oh, and it seems a Syntaxy extension (Python and other language syntax
> checking) and Ploneybot (brings wave editing capabilities to Plone (in
> progress).
> 
> Glen
> 
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 12:43 AM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
> 
> > I'm only now coming up to speed with Google Wave. I got my invite, I logged
> > in, I got the two waves from Dr. Wave... and then crickets chirped. I didn't
> > know anyone else who was currently on Google Wave and didn't see the power
> > of it...
> >
> > It sat a week or two.. and then.. *POW*... I suddenly see the power of it
> > -- especially with the extensions. I see this i-cron extension "evaluates
> > Python expressions. Looks at blips in event, searches for CALC() macros and
> > executes Python code using exec()."
> >
> > Has anyone used this yet? Does it merit a newbie nugget (hopefully from
> > someone else)?...
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >
> > Glen
> >
> >
> >

> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From netengadmin at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 17:42:04 2009
From: netengadmin at gmail.com (Geoff White)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 08:42:04 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies]  Google Wave i-cron extension
Message-ID: <a5eb563f0911200842v1104f62ao3cadd4b5e122f55e@mail.gmail.com>

I would live to play with it but I guess I'm not enough in the "in' crowd to
get an invite "hint, hint" :)






get control over the performance of your esx servers with esxplot
http://vpivot.com/2009/10/21/esxtop-analysis-with-esxplot/
-- 
Geoff White
http://www.linkedin.com/in/netengadmin [
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From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 18:42:27 2009
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:42:27 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Google Wave i-cron extension
In-Reply-To: <a5eb563f0911200842v1104f62ao3cadd4b5e122f55e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a5eb563f0911200842v1104f62ao3cadd4b5e122f55e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0911200942v21dcba1cu29fd0a792032437b@mail.gmail.com>

Geoff,

You don't have Google Wave? I have some extra invites.(they are nominations
though so may take a little bit)

Donna 'SnowWrite' Snow
C2E Training
illuminating your path to Open Source
http://www.c2etraining.com


On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Geoff White <netengadmin at gmail.com> wrote:

> I would live to play with it but I guess I'm not enough in the "in' crowd
> to get an invite "hint, hint" :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> get control over the performance of your esx servers with esxplot
> http://vpivot.com/2009/10/21/esxtop-analysis-with-esxplot/
> --
> Geoff White
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/netengadmin [
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From eric at ericwalstad.com  Fri Nov 20 18:52:24 2009
From: eric at ericwalstad.com (Eric Walstad)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:52:24 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Google Wave i-cron extension
In-Reply-To: <a5eb563f0911200842v1104f62ao3cadd4b5e122f55e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a5eb563f0911200842v1104f62ao3cadd4b5e122f55e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c436fcd20911200952m5cf4209buabbd78cd6226ebee@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Geoff White <netengadmin at gmail.com> wrote:
> I would live to play with it but I guess I'm not enough in the "in' crowd to
> get an invite "hint, hint" :)
I must not be part of the in-crowd.  I don't appear to have the
ability to send out invitations (yet?).

http://www.google.com/support/wave/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=162237

Eric
ewalstad at gmail.com

From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 18:56:55 2009
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:56:55 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Google Wave i-cron extension
In-Reply-To: <c436fcd20911200952m5cf4209buabbd78cd6226ebee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a5eb563f0911200842v1104f62ao3cadd4b5e122f55e@mail.gmail.com>
	<c436fcd20911200952m5cf4209buabbd78cd6226ebee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0911200956j4e0fcc15kcc111638973c5a05@mail.gmail.com>

Eric,

It shows up as a wave in your inbox, "Invite others to Google Wave" and
their is a one field form to send someones address in. They are nominations
at this point so it's not a quick turnaournd.


Donna 'SnowWrite' Snow, Owner
C2E Training
illuminating your path to Open Source
http://www.c2etraining.com

Office Manager, Hacker Dojo
hackerdojo.com


On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Eric Walstad <eric at ericwalstad.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Geoff White <netengadmin at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I would live to play with it but I guess I'm not enough in the "in' crowd
> to
> > get an invite "hint, hint" :)
> I must not be part of the in-crowd.  I don't appear to have the
> ability to send out invitations (yet?).
>
> http://www.google.com/support/wave/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=162237
>
> Eric
> ewalstad at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 18:59:35 2009
From: jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com (Jeremy Fishman)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:59:35 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Google Wave i-cron extension
In-Reply-To: <1f7713e30911200958i6de29c15ua9dd249507c1bb2f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a5eb563f0911200842v1104f62ao3cadd4b5e122f55e@mail.gmail.com>
	<c436fcd20911200952m5cf4209buabbd78cd6226ebee@mail.gmail.com>
	<1f7713e30911200955t59156854p89da51513680e984@mail.gmail.com>
	<1f7713e30911200956k3febc9d8mf76de5be39cf64e1@mail.gmail.com>
	<1f7713e30911200958i6de29c15ua9dd249507c1bb2f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f7713e30911200959m10d986a0h92da17ac7b317078@mail.gmail.com>

Were you yourself invited *by* a developer, or *as* a developer?  That may
be the difference, as in a 'invite your beta testers' not 'invite more
developers' policy, but I'm just speculating here.

If someone needs an invite ping me off-list, as I have several.

  - Jeremy

On Nov 20, 2009 9:52 AM, "Eric Walstad" <eric at ericwalstad.com> wrote:

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Geoff White <netengadmin at gmail.com> wrote:

> I would live to play with it but I guess I'm not enough in the "in' crowd
to > get an invite "hint...
I must not be part of the in-crowd.  I don't appear to have the
ability to send out invitations (yet?).

http://www.google.com/support/wave/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=162237

Eric
ewalstad at gmail.com

_______________________________________________ Baypiggies mailing list
Baypiggies at python.org To cha...
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From glen at glenjarvis.com  Fri Nov 20 19:10:47 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:10:47 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Google Wave i-cron extension;
	Python Extension/Bot 	API
Message-ID: <e5660d770911201010r191361d1pd4fabb40d757a3bf@mail.gmail.com>

I was reading a little last night (it was a late night :) on creating one's
own extensions (gadgets) for Google... There's a Python API (although you
need to write for Google App Engine at the moment)...

 I think the idea of embedded waves (although I haven't seen an embedded
wave web sites in action yet) will *really* make for a quick-developed
interactive module on a page....

I vote that demoing the stuff I just mentioned (from reading online) and how
to write one's own gadget be a tech talk at BayPIGgies... Any +1 or -1 votes
on this?

(I'm not volunteering to speak because by now I *must* be wearing out the
welcome mat.. Also, as is probably evident the past two months, I don't do
well speaking about topics I'm just learning/not well versed in... Of
course, if we can't get anyone else to do it, I will muddle through... but,
I betcha we already have some expertise here...). Votes?

Cheers,


Glen


On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Eric Walstad <eric at ericwalstad.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Geoff White <netengadmin at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I would live to play with it but I guess I'm not enough in the "in' crowd
> to
> > get an invite "hint, hint" :)
> I must not be part of the in-crowd.  I don't appear to have the
> ability to send out invitations (yet?).
>
> http://www.google.com/support/wave/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=162237
>
> Eric
> ewalstad at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From glen at glenjarvis.com  Fri Nov 20 19:12:13 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:12:13 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Google Wave i-cron extension
In-Reply-To: <baf0d46b0911200956j4e0fcc15kcc111638973c5a05@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a5eb563f0911200842v1104f62ao3cadd4b5e122f55e@mail.gmail.com>
	<c436fcd20911200952m5cf4209buabbd78cd6226ebee@mail.gmail.com>
	<baf0d46b0911200956j4e0fcc15kcc111638973c5a05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e5660d770911201012g600efeb8nf157892336c001a@mail.gmail.com>

Donna,

   I don't think everyone gets that same wave in their inbox. I think that
comes over time, but isn't getting sent to everyone... but, I could be
wrong...


Cheers,


Glen

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com> wrote:

> Eric,
>
> It shows up as a wave in your inbox, "Invite others to Google Wave" and
> their is a one field form to send someones address in. They are nominations
> at this point so it's not a quick turnaournd.
>
>
>
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From keith at dartworks.biz  Fri Nov 20 19:22:38 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:22:38 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python on your android phone
Message-ID: <20091120102238.73c0f576@dartworks.biz>

In case you missed this:

http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/

You can run Python scripts on an Android phone.

-- Keith Dart

-- 

-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================

From daryl.spitzer at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 19:38:34 2009
From: daryl.spitzer at gmail.com (Daryl Spitzer)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:38:34 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Google Wave i-cron extension;
	Python Extension/Bot 	API
In-Reply-To: <e5660d770911201010r191361d1pd4fabb40d757a3bf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e5660d770911201010r191361d1pd4fabb40d757a3bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbf2758a0911201038r691e4e99yb73f48f26c950abc@mail.gmail.com>

+1

Although I wonder if we'll get much more out of such a talk if we wait
a few months for Google Wave to mature.

--
Daryl


On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
> I was reading a little last night (it was a late night :) on creating one's
> own extensions (gadgets) for Google... There's a Python API (although you
> need to write for Google App Engine at the moment)...
> ?I think the idea of embedded waves (although I haven't seen an embedded
> wave web sites in action yet) will *really* make for a quick-developed
> interactive module on a page....
> I vote that demoing the stuff I just mentioned (from reading online) and how
> to write one's own gadget be a tech talk at BayPIGgies... Any +1 or -1 votes
> on this?
> (I'm not volunteering to speak because by now I *must* be wearing out the
> welcome mat.. Also, as is probably evident the past two months, I don't do
> well speaking about topics I'm just learning/not well versed in... Of
> course, if we can't get anyone else to do it, I will muddle through... but,
> I betcha we already have some expertise here...). Votes?
> Cheers,
>
> Glen
>
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Eric Walstad <eric at ericwalstad.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Geoff White <netengadmin at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I would live to play with it but I guess I'm not enough in the "in'
>> > crowd to
>> > get an invite "hint, hint" :)
>> I must not be part of the in-crowd. ?I don't appear to have the
>> ability to send out invitations (yet?).
>>
>> http://www.google.com/support/wave/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=162237
>>
>> Eric
>> ewalstad at gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Fri Nov 20 20:13:42 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:13:42 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Google Wave i-cron extension;
	Python Extension/Bot 	API
In-Reply-To: <fbf2758a0911201038r691e4e99yb73f48f26c950abc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e5660d770911201010r191361d1pd4fabb40d757a3bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<fbf2758a0911201038r691e4e99yb73f48f26c950abc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e5660d770911201113y6d670bebwb3bf7c70c45b02e2@mail.gmail.com>

>
> +1
>
> Although I wonder if we'll get much more out of such a talk if we wait
> a few months for Google Wave to mature.
>

I agree. Next Month's (December) talk is already slotted. Additionally, I
heard some really interesting conversation from several individuals that
wanted to discuss some cloud computing (I referred them to the list and to
Jim). So, if we start planning this talk now, we may hit Feb/March maybe?
Assuming of course we have the votes/interest for it...

Jim, what do you think?


Cheers,


Glen
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From jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 22:51:51 2009
From: jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com (Jeremy Fishman)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:51:51 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Google Wave i-cron extension;
	Python Extension/Bot 	API
In-Reply-To: <e5660d770911201113y6d670bebwb3bf7c70c45b02e2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e5660d770911201010r191361d1pd4fabb40d757a3bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<fbf2758a0911201038r691e4e99yb73f48f26c950abc@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5660d770911201113y6d670bebwb3bf7c70c45b02e2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f7713e30911201351i40e8fa4ew73e2f1118f8eeedb@mail.gmail.com>

+1

On a related note, is anyone versed in Python in the browser, i.e.
IronPython and the like, or know what Google is doing with Python
client-side?  As Chrome develops I would be interested in keeping up with
keeping Python relevant for the web app cloud.

  - Jeremy

On Nov 20, 2009 11:13 AM, "Glen Jarvis" <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:

> +1 > > Although I wonder if we'll get much more out of such a talk if we
wait > a few months for G...
I agree. Next Month's (December) talk is already slotted. Additionally, I
heard some really interesting conversation from several individuals that
wanted to discuss some cloud computing (I referred them to the list and to
Jim). So, if we start planning this talk now, we may hit Feb/March maybe?
Assuming of course we have the votes/interest for it...

Jim, what do you think?


Cheers,


Glen


_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
Baypiggies at python.org
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
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From voidref at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 23:54:57 2009
From: voidref at gmail.com (Alan Westbrook)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:54:57 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
Message-ID: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>

At the behest of Glen I am letting everyone know I wrote a syntax
highlighting bot for it.

The bot pretty much uses the same engine as the ksyntaxy one, but there are
a couple of improvements over it, and it's a little more linear and more
commented (although probably aslo has some bugs).

If anyone is interested, let me know, I can put it up somewhere.

Or if you have a wave account, I can add you to the wave that I used to show
it to Glen!

Alan
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From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 23:58:37 2009
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:58:37 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0911201458r2d6dc92rebd34f54f4a9b37@mail.gmail.com>

Alan,

I'd love to see your syntax highilghting bot - I'm waving at
donnamsnow at gmail.com

Donna

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Alan Westbrook <voidref at gmail.com> wrote:

> At the behest of Glen I am letting everyone know I wrote a syntax
> highlighting bot for it.
>
> The bot pretty much uses the same engine as the ksyntaxy one, but there are
> a couple of improvements over it, and it's a little more linear and more
> commented (although probably aslo has some bugs).
>
> If anyone is interested, let me know, I can put it up somewhere.
>
> Or if you have a wave account, I can add you to the wave that I used to
> show it to Glen!
>
> Alan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From glen at glenjarvis.com  Sat Nov 21 00:23:02 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:23:02 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you, Alan :) It's very cool.... :)   And, a nice demonstration of what
can be done with Python and Google Wave. :)

I can see this as a great way to post code snippets, collaborate, do
code-reviews, and have full discussions without having to paste the code to
a link, click the link, irc someone about the link, etc....  Even making
changes on the fly and having the syntax checker show where syntax errors
are....

I definitely see this as a way to get direct, interactive help on a piece of
code as we're working away....

Cheers,

Glen

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Alan Westbrook <voidref at gmail.com> wrote:

> At the behest of Glen I am letting everyone know I wrote a syntax
> highlighting bot for it.
>
> The bot pretty much uses the same engine as the ksyntaxy one, but there are
> a couple of improvements over it, and it's a little more linear and more
> commented (although probably aslo has some bugs).
>
> If anyone is interested, let me know, I can put it up somewhere.
>
> Or if you have a wave account, I can add you to the wave that I used to
> show it to Glen!
>
> Alan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From voidref at gmail.com  Sat Nov 21 00:25:55 2009
From: voidref at gmail.com (Alan Westbrook)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:25:55 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5df1e9b00911201525n6be85430g849fd564bb7162c0@mail.gmail.com>

That's exactly why I wrote it (I didn't actually know about ksyntaxy when I
started).

If there is interest, I can work on doing one of the 15 minute presentations
on what it takes to get started writing a python wave bot.

Alan

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:

> Thank you, Alan :) It's very cool.... :)   And, a nice demonstration of
> what can be done with Python and Google Wave. :)
>
> I can see this as a great way to post code snippets, collaborate, do
> code-reviews, and have full discussions without having to paste the code to
> a link, click the link, irc someone about the link, etc....  Even making
> changes on the fly and having the syntax checker show where syntax errors
> are....
>
> I definitely see this as a way to get direct, interactive help on a piece
> of code as we're working away....
>
> Cheers,
>
> Glen
>
>  On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Alan Westbrook <voidref at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>  At the behest of Glen I am letting everyone know I wrote a syntax
>> highlighting bot for it.
>>
>> The bot pretty much uses the same engine as the ksyntaxy one, but there
>> are a couple of improvements over it, and it's a little more linear and more
>> commented (although probably aslo has some bugs).
>>
>> If anyone is interested, let me know, I can put it up somewhere.
>>
>> Or if you have a wave account, I can add you to the wave that I used to
>> show it to Glen!
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
>
>
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From aleax at google.com  Sat Nov 21 00:30:50 2009
From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:30:50 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <5df1e9b00911201525n6be85430g849fd564bb7162c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com>
	<5df1e9b00911201525n6be85430g849fd564bb7162c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55dc209b0911201530u2a79b485kccf033a2e5369b81@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Alan Westbrook <voidref at gmail.com> wrote:
> That's exactly why I wrote it (I didn't actually know about ksyntaxy when I
> started).
> If there is interest, I can work on doing one of the 15 minute presentations
> on what it takes to get started writing a python wave bot.

+1 !!!


Alex

From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Sat Nov 21 00:32:44 2009
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:32:44 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <55dc209b0911201530u2a79b485kccf033a2e5369b81@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com>
	<5df1e9b00911201525n6be85430g849fd564bb7162c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<55dc209b0911201530u2a79b485kccf033a2e5369b81@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0911201532w274b48ack756371bd0b8b6482@mail.gmail.com>

yes yes +1

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Alex Martelli <aleax at google.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Alan Westbrook <voidref at gmail.com> wrote:
> > That's exactly why I wrote it (I didn't actually know about ksyntaxy when
> I
> > started).
> > If there is interest, I can work on doing one of the 15 minute
> presentations
> > on what it takes to get started writing a python wave bot.
>
> +1 !!!
>
>
> Alex
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From bender at onsrc.com  Sat Nov 21 00:39:42 2009
From: bender at onsrc.com (RYAN DELUCCHI)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:39:42 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <baf0d46b0911201532w274b48ack756371bd0b8b6482@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com>
	<5df1e9b00911201525n6be85430g849fd564bb7162c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<55dc209b0911201530u2a79b485kccf033a2e5369b81@mail.gmail.com>
	<baf0d46b0911201532w274b48ack756371bd0b8b6482@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F02BC80C-2637-4A49-BDF5-A2FFC1C86358@onsrc.com>

At the Google Code Camp this last summer I already got my feet wet  
with Google Wave (or leaped into the deep-end: depending on your  
perspective I suppose).  Nonetheless, there seems to be a lot of  
interest in Google Wave, so I say a talk at the next meeting on Wave  
would be cool: for those of us that have used Wave already, it would  
have the added benefit of generating some interesting conversation.

But, I'm curious what folks mean when they say that "cloud computing"  
is another topic to be discussed at the next meeting?  It *sounds*  
very interesting as well, but I'm wondering what will be talked about  
in this context.

Ryan

On Nov 20, 2009, at 3:32 PM, Donna Snow wrote:

> yes yes +1
>
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Alex Martelli <aleax at google.com>  
> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Alan Westbrook <voidref at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
> > That's exactly why I wrote it (I didn't actually know about  
> ksyntaxy when I
> > started).
> > If there is interest, I can work on doing one of the 15 minute  
> presentations
> > on what it takes to get started writing a python wave bot.
>
> +1 !!!
>
>
> Alex
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

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From luca.pellicoro at gmail.com  Sat Nov 21 01:20:26 2009
From: luca.pellicoro at gmail.com (Luca Pellicoro)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:20:26 +0100
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b16f77670911201620n2d0c34a1we0fecaa70b74ef5b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 12:23 AM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
> Thank you, Alan :) It's very cool.... :) ? And, a nice demonstration of what
> can be done with Python and Google Wave. :)
> I can see this as a great way to post code snippets, collaborate, do
> code-reviews, and have full discussions without having to paste the code to
> a link, click the link, irc someone about the link, etc.... ?Even making
> changes on the fly and having the syntax checker show where syntax errors
> are....
> I definitely see this as a way to get direct, interactive help on a piece of
> code as we're working away....

I wonder, could this kind of tech (coupled with continuous
integration) even replace source control altogether.

> Cheers,
> Glen
>
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Alan Westbrook <voidref at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> At the behest of Glen I am letting everyone know I wrote a syntax
>> highlighting bot for it.
>> The bot pretty much uses the same engine as the ksyntaxy one, but there
>> are a couple of improvements over it, and it's a little more linear and more
>> commented (although probably aslo has some bugs).
>> If anyone is interested, let me know, I can put it up somewhere.
>> Or if you have a wave account, I can add you to the wave that I used to
>> show it to Glen!
>> Alan
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From keith at dartworks.biz  Sat Nov 21 01:26:46 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:26:46 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <b16f77670911201620n2d0c34a1we0fecaa70b74ef5b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com>
	<b16f77670911201620n2d0c34a1we0fecaa70b74ef5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091120162646.74b77d36@dartworks.biz>

=== On Sat, 11/21, Luca Pellicoro wrote: ===
> I wonder, could this kind of tech (coupled with continuous
> integration) even replace source control altogether.

===

I wonder if they will sell a server appliance so companies can have a
private instance of Wave data. 


-- Keith Dart

-- 
-- --------------------
Keith Dart
<keith at dartworks.biz>
=======================

From jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com  Sat Nov 21 01:31:54 2009
From: jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com (Jeremy Fishman)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:31:54 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <20091120162646.74b77d36@dartworks.biz>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com>
	<b16f77670911201620n2d0c34a1we0fecaa70b74ef5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091120162646.74b77d36@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <1f7713e30911201631q390d5a8bha206f1bfe5fcd061@mail.gmail.com>

Well, the Wave Federation Protocol is open for comment and alternative
implementations.  One of the main goals of Google's work on Wave is to have
transparent integration accross different wave providers.

So yes, I imagine setting this up would be as simple as running the default
public implementation on a box in your office.  Waves sent from within the
corporate network (belonging to wave accounts at the provider) are stored
locally, but can interact natively with other waves and wavers.

  - Jeremy


On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz> wrote:

> === On Sat, 11/21, Luca Pellicoro wrote: ===
> > I wonder, could this kind of tech (coupled with continuous
> > integration) even replace source control altogether.
>
> ===
>
> I wonder if they will sell a server appliance so companies can have a
> private instance of Wave data.
>
>
> -- Keith Dart
>
> --
> -- --------------------
> Keith Dart
> <keith at dartworks.biz>
> =======================
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From luca.pellicoro at gmail.com  Sat Nov 21 01:33:18 2009
From: luca.pellicoro at gmail.com (Luca Pellicoro)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:33:18 +0100
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <20091120162646.74b77d36@dartworks.biz>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com> 
	<b16f77670911201620n2d0c34a1we0fecaa70b74ef5b@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20091120162646.74b77d36@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <b16f77670911201633h26a2c2b0n974c5902950257c7@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 1:26 AM, Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz> wrote:
> === On Sat, 11/21, Luca Pellicoro wrote: ===
>> I wonder, could this kind of tech (coupled with continuous
>> integration) even replace source control altogether.
>
> ===
>
> I wonder if they will sell a server appliance so companies can have a
> private instance of Wave data.

>From the hour long video demo, won't companies be able to host their
private wave instance. Perhaps on something like Google Mini.

From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Sat Nov 21 01:45:37 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:45:37 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <5df1e9b00911201525n6be85430g849fd564bb7162c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com>
	<5df1e9b00911201525n6be85430g849fd564bb7162c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u3py2bdzjvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>

On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:25:55 -0800, Alan Westbrook <voidref at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> That's exactly why I wrote it (I didn't actually know about ksyntaxy  
> when I
> started).
>
> If there is interest, I can work on doing one of the 15 minute  
> presentations
> on what it takes to get started writing a python wave bot.
>

+1 from me too


-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Nov 21 02:13:01 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:13:01 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Go versus Brand X
Message-ID: <20091121011300.GA11531@panix.com>

Comparing Go to another programming language -- do you recognize it?

http://www.cowlark.com/2009-11-15-go/
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by
definition, not smart enough to debug it."  --Brian W. Kernighan

From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Sat Nov 21 04:13:09 2009
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:13:09 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] 3 tickets left at 50% off for Develop & Deploy: Django
	- ends Sunday
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0911201913o4f0232b4v415a229018d86353@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Get in on the Early, Early bird special and save 50% off a 5 day course led
by 2 developers that are active in the Django community (see the instructor
bios and the Syllabus for more info)

http://c2etraining100201.eventbrite.com/

(if you are a Dojo member contact me offlist - I have a special rate for
members of the Dojo)

Thanks guys

(anything else you'd like to see being offered as training at the Dojo - let
me know!)

Best Regards,
Donna 'SnowWrite' Snow
Office Manager, Hacker Dojo

Owner, C2E Training
illuminating your path to Open Source
http://www.c2etraining.com
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From glen at glenjarvis.com  Sat Nov 21 16:33:40 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:33:40 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <F02BC80C-2637-4A49-BDF5-A2FFC1C86358@onsrc.com>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com>
	<5df1e9b00911201525n6be85430g849fd564bb7162c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<55dc209b0911201530u2a79b485kccf033a2e5369b81@mail.gmail.com>
	<baf0d46b0911201532w274b48ack756371bd0b8b6482@mail.gmail.com>
	<F02BC80C-2637-4A49-BDF5-A2FFC1C86358@onsrc.com>
Message-ID: <e5660d770911210733j296d2e72l35cf2b43d996c68f@mail.gmail.com>

> But, I'm curious what folks mean when they say that "cloud computing" is
> another topic to be discussed at the next meeting?  It *sounds* very
> interesting as well, but I'm wondering what will be talked about in this
> context.
>


To be clear, what was mentioned was not a suggestion for the *next* meeting
-- but for a potential one in *2010*. The next meeting, in December, is
already scheduled to be wxPython (unless that has changed). Tony/Jim is this
still on? Although my understanding is that Jim was still looking for a
Newbie Nugget.

I said the very vague 'cloud computing' comment because a member has a
project in this area that he'd like to present on. He didn't want to go into
details just yet.

I suggested that he should talk to Jim and/or post to the list to get the
ball rolling if he was interested in speaking (but only for 15 minutes). He
originally mentioned that he only wanted to speak for about 15 minutes. And,
I started thinking aloud. We've done the 'four speakers for 15 minutes'
format before.

And, brainstorming, aloud, I thought "We hadn't discussed Hadoop" and there
seems to be a pretty large interest in that lately. I've seen a Python
magazine article on it. I also remember reading more about Amazon's cloud
computing Python API. These things all seemed related.

So, that was really brainstorming. I don't remember the member's name who
was interested in doing this presentation. Hopefully, he will read this,
post if he's still interested in presenting and the ball starts rolling.
Also, if there are others who are interested in presenting for Hadoop or
Amazon Cloud Computing, speak up.  I want to defer to Jim on who actually
organizes who are speakers are... I'm just drumming up interests for us as a
group to choose from. Hopefully it doesn't add confusion...

In summary, unless I'm corrected by either Jim or Tony, I think we already
have December's topics and we are now discussing topics for 2010.


Cheers,


Glen
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From glen at glenjarvis.com  Sat Nov 21 16:40:38 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:40:38 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <op.u3py2bdzjvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com>
	<5df1e9b00911201525n6be85430g849fd564bb7162c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u3py2bdzjvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
Message-ID: <e5660d770911210740v284a1febp2adaba958c12e61c@mail.gmail.com>

>
> If there is interest, I can work on doing one of the 15 minute
>> presentations
>> on what it takes to get started writing a python wave bot.
>>
>>
>
> +1 from me too
>

Because explicit is better than implicit:

+1 from me too :)

By the way, there is a PlusOne Google Wave Extension (with the exact same
name and spelling as my South Demonstration App (I feel strangely validated
:))...  If this were a wave instead of email:
1) All of the +1s would be gathered together in one central place in this
thread (because that's the part we'd all be replying to). And, they would be
summed up, and
2) There wouldn't be an email thread and an 'app' to click on -- one window
and one thread for both -- with no extra 'mental effort' to vote..


Cheers,


Glen
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From cappy2112 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 22 03:26:12 2009
From: cappy2112 at yahoo.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:26:12 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: Pearson UG Special: "Moving From Python 2 to
	Python 3" Map
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0911211826k518272dk670e7d29beb01316@mail.gmail.com>

At the link below, there is a Download button which points to a PDF quick
reference sheet for migrating to Python 3.

*FOR YOUR MEMBERS:* Please send your members this link where they can
download the map, as well as enter an exclusive User Group contest for the
chance to win one of five ?Python prize packs?.

http://www.informit.com/promotions/promotion.aspx?promo=137495
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From bender at onsrc.com  Sun Nov 22 06:56:08 2009
From: bender at onsrc.com (Ryan Delucchi)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:56:08 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <e5660d770911210733j296d2e72l35cf2b43d996c68f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com>
	<5df1e9b00911201525n6be85430g849fd564bb7162c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<55dc209b0911201530u2a79b485kccf033a2e5369b81@mail.gmail.com>
	<baf0d46b0911201532w274b48ack756371bd0b8b6482@mail.gmail.com>
	<F02BC80C-2637-4A49-BDF5-A2FFC1C86358@onsrc.com>
	<e5660d770911210733j296d2e72l35cf2b43d996c68f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ECBD95AC-3C92-4EE3-A90D-13F952ABC811@onsrc.com>

> But, I'm curious what folks mean when they say that "cloud  
> computing" is another topic to be discussed at the next meeting?  It  
> *sounds* very interesting as well, but I'm wondering what will be  
> talked about in this context.
>
>
> To be clear, what was mentioned was not a suggestion for the *next*  
> meeting -- but for a potential one in *2010*. The next meeting, in  
> December, is already scheduled to be wxPython (unless that has  
> changed). Tony/Jim is this still on? Although my understanding is  
> that Jim was still looking for a Newbie Nugget.
>

wxPython is a great idea.  I haven't been exposed to this framework  
before but would be very interested in such a talk.

> I said the very vague 'cloud computing' comment because a member has  
> a project in this area that he'd like to present on. He didn't want  
> to go into details just yet.

Fair enough.  Despite its vaugness, my hunch was that it would be  
interesting :-)

> And, brainstorming, aloud, I thought "We hadn't discussed Hadoop"  
> and there seems to be a pretty large interest in that lately. I've  
> seen a Python magazine article on it. I also remember reading more  
> about Amazon's cloud computing Python API. These things all seemed  
> related.

+1 for covering Hadoop

> In summary, unless I'm corrected by either Jim or Tony, I think we  
> already have December's topics and we are now discussing topics for  
> 2010.

Great.  Quick Question:  The December meeting will be Dec. 14th,  
right?  If so, that works out well since I have a big deadline on the  
9th at work and it will be relatively smooth sailing for the rest of  
the year.

Ryan

From bender at onsrc.com  Sun Nov 22 06:58:24 2009
From: bender at onsrc.com (Ryan Delucchi)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:58:24 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <e5660d770911210740v284a1febp2adaba958c12e61c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com>
	<5df1e9b00911201525n6be85430g849fd564bb7162c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u3py2bdzjvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<e5660d770911210740v284a1febp2adaba958c12e61c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5E17E96B-547D-4739-9F17-E14B1D4A5667@onsrc.com>

> By the way, there is a PlusOne Google Wave Extension (with the exact  
> same name and spelling as my South Demonstration App (I feel  
> strangely validated :))...  If this were a wave instead of email:
> 1) All of the +1s would be gathered together in one central place in  
> this thread (because that's the part we'd all be replying to). And,  
> they would be summed up, and
> 2) There wouldn't be an email thread and an 'app' to click on -- one  
> window and one thread for both -- with no extra 'mental effort' to  
> vote..

Nice!  And I'd expect this would be low on false positives since  
people don't naturally inject "+1" into their dialog, unless if they  
are "voting".

Ryan

From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Sun Nov 22 20:37:54 2009
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 11:37:54 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] down to 1 ticket to django training at 1/2 price
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0911221137k6da2d609y72da4c9a658aeede@mail.gmail.com>

starting Monday ticket price will return to $1,490.00

http://c2etraining100201.eventbrite.com/

Best Regards,
Donna 'SnowWrite' Snow
Office Manager, Hacker Dojo
hackerdojo.com

Owner, C2E Training
illuminating your path to Open Source
c2etraining.com

Founder, GirlsLuvTech
facebook.com/girlsluvtech
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From brent.tubbs at gmail.com  Sun Nov 22 22:41:23 2009
From: brent.tubbs at gmail.com (Brent Tubbs)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:41:23 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <5E17E96B-547D-4739-9F17-E14B1D4A5667@onsrc.com>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com>
	<5df1e9b00911201525n6be85430g849fd564bb7162c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u3py2bdzjvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<e5660d770911210740v284a1febp2adaba958c12e61c@mail.gmail.com>
	<5E17E96B-547D-4739-9F17-E14B1D4A5667@onsrc.com>
Message-ID: <769bb4300911221341h89ac8bdpfd423095b64324d0@mail.gmail.com>

Though ironically, you just injected "+1" into the dialog and possibly
created a false positive.

Oops, I did too!

That being said:
+1 for a python+hadoop talk,
and +1 for one on creating Wave bots in python.

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Ryan Delucchi <bender at onsrc.com> wrote:

> By the way, there is a PlusOne Google Wave Extension (with the exact same
>> name and spelling as my South Demonstration App (I feel strangely validated
>> :))...  If this were a wave instead of email:
>> 1) All of the +1s would be gathered together in one central place in this
>> thread (because that's the part we'd all be replying to). And, they would be
>> summed up, and
>> 2) There wouldn't be an email thread and an 'app' to click on -- one
>> window and one thread for both -- with no extra 'mental effort' to vote..
>>
>
> Nice!  And I'd expect this would be low on false positives since people
> don't naturally inject "+1" into their dialog, unless if they are "voting".
>
> Ryan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Mon Nov 23 11:12:00 2009
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 02:12:00 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <769bb4300911221341h89ac8bdpfd423095b64324d0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com>
	<5df1e9b00911201525n6be85430g849fd564bb7162c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u3py2bdzjvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<e5660d770911210740v284a1febp2adaba958c12e61c@mail.gmail.com>
	<5E17E96B-547D-4739-9F17-E14B1D4A5667@onsrc.com>
	<769bb4300911221341h89ac8bdpfd423095b64324d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D46C26DB-CBA3-4FF2-A30B-AC0CF2ED6D4E@dalkescientific.com>

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Ryan Delucchi <bender at onsrc.com>  
wrote:
> Nice!  And I'd expect this would be low on false positives since  
> people don't naturally inject "+1" into their dialog, unless if  
> they are "voting".

Really? Searching my sent mail and eyeballing the results, 20% are  
votes, 25% are US international phone prefix, and the other uses of  
"+1" are "other", giving a pretty high false positive rate.


phone number, with international dialing prefix
(this occurs a lot in my emails)
71905.emlx:wherever I am, is +1 505 216 0628.  My Sweden mobile number

I work with atoms, which can have charges
71934.emlx:          unspecified charge means 1 (either +1 or -1 as  
appropriate)
74929.emlx:with some +1 group, like an H+ in water?  Or like a proton

An mxTextTools tag table
71983.emlx:             (None, SubTable, expr.make_parser().tagtable,  
+1, "start

Parsing the header line of a FASTA file (skipping the leading '>')
72582.emlx:             strcpy(header, line+1); // +1 to avoid > at  
the beginnin

72767.emlx:Chicago.  I'm in Sweden, which is +1 hours from Iceland.

More offset information
73440.emlx:working with C functions.  (Internally, all strings take  
+1 byte to
74266.emlx:take each one forward, and compare the sets of nodes at  
+1, +2, ...

Bit of astronomy:
76127.emlx:  Mars (magnitude +1.1, in Sagittarius) glows in the  
southeast in

Test code for date parsing routines
90790.emlx:        ("mm", ["%02d" % i for i in range(60)], "1 +1 -1  
60".split()),

Some Python internals
78233.emlx:     Py_ssize_t result = string_find_internal(self, args,  
+1);

Diff output:
80698.emlx:date: 2005/04/14 12:24:58;  author: andreas;  state: Exp;   
lines: +1 -1


>

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com



From aduda at dextrys.com  Mon Nov 23 17:54:38 2009
From: aduda at dextrys.com (Andrea Duda)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:54:38 -0500
Subject: [Baypiggies] Job Posting
Message-ID: <0A88F0EFB5F321469B0979289A8B4A420C979F23@eros.darwinpartners.lan>

C++ 3 month Consulting Opportunity in Bellevue, WA

 

A market leader in online travel services currently has an opportunity
available for a C++ consultant.

In this role, you will be designing and implementing extreme scale
client and server software. You must

have a strong understanding of optimal performance in C++; Extensive
experience in C++, Java and Microsoft databases on Windows platforms;

Extensive experience in design concepts, development frameworks and SOA
architectures; Strong experience with algorithms and data structures,
multithreading, concurrency, caching and scalable/distributed systems.

 

Interested applicants please contact Andrea Duda @ 781.213.7802 or
aduda at dextrys.com

 

 

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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Nov 23 18:25:16 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:25:16 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Job Posting
In-Reply-To: <0A88F0EFB5F321469B0979289A8B4A420C979F23@eros.darwinpartners.lan>
References: <0A88F0EFB5F321469B0979289A8B4A420C979F23@eros.darwinpartners.lan>
Message-ID: <20091123172516.GA22710@panix.com>

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009, Andrea Duda wrote:
>
> C++ 3 month Consulting Opportunity in Bellevue, WA

Did you read the job posting guidelines?

Jobs posted to BayPIGgies must be located in the greater SF Bay Area:

http://baypiggies.net/index_html/job-listings
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
to post the wrong information.  

From keith at dartworks.biz  Mon Nov 23 18:56:59 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:56:59 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <D46C26DB-CBA3-4FF2-A30B-AC0CF2ED6D4E@dalkescientific.com>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com>
	<5df1e9b00911201525n6be85430g849fd564bb7162c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u3py2bdzjvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<e5660d770911210740v284a1febp2adaba958c12e61c@mail.gmail.com>
	<5E17E96B-547D-4739-9F17-E14B1D4A5667@onsrc.com>
	<769bb4300911221341h89ac8bdpfd423095b64324d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<D46C26DB-CBA3-4FF2-A30B-AC0CF2ED6D4E@dalkescientific.com>
Message-ID: <20091123095659.7699efb2@dartworks.biz>

=== On Mon, 11/23, Andrew Dalke wrote: ===
> Really? Searching my sent mail and eyeballing the results, 20% are  
> votes, 25% are US international phone prefix, and the other uses of  
> "+1" are "other", giving a pretty high false positive rate.
===

Unless the app only looks at the first two characters in the body of
the email. 


-- Keith Dart

-- 
-- --------------------
Keith Dart
<keith at dartworks.biz>
=======================

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Mon Nov 23 19:18:45 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:18:45 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <20091123095659.7699efb2@dartworks.biz>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com>
	<5df1e9b00911201525n6be85430g849fd564bb7162c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u3py2bdzjvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<e5660d770911210740v284a1febp2adaba958c12e61c@mail.gmail.com>
	<5E17E96B-547D-4739-9F17-E14B1D4A5667@onsrc.com>
	<769bb4300911221341h89ac8bdpfd423095b64324d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<D46C26DB-CBA3-4FF2-A30B-AC0CF2ED6D4E@dalkescientific.com>
	<20091123095659.7699efb2@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <4487FC0C-25B3-4B32-8B6E-56C4E0AEB43B@glenjarvis.com>

>> Really? Searching my sent mail and eyeballing the results, 20% are  
>> votes, 25% are US international phone prefix, and the other uses of  
>> "+1" are "other", giving a pretty high false positive rate.
> ===
> 
> Unless the app only looks at the first two characters in the body of
> the email

Don't forget, that we're not talking about a text email anymore. We're talking about a Google Wave. We're not 'scraping' the email to look for items. The PlusOne App is a gadget already build and added to the wave. If someone wants to vote, they click the 'thumbs up' and a +1 is added. Or, they vote for 'thumbs down' (-1). It's very rich media and avoids all of these issues of trying to scrape for +1/-1 in a meaningful context. It's encapsulated as a gadget in the wave. One can interact with lots of parts of a wave at once (like one can interact with a web page in several different places).

I think this is where wave is revolutionary. Does anyone else remember the Gopher, Archie, Veronica, etc. days?  When we had a text based system (gopher was a hierarchy  of text documents that one could navigate)? If one wanted a free ware program, we'd go to Archie to get it. If you wanted to search for different freeware programs, one would go to Veronica (it's been a long time, did I get that backwards)?  Or, if one wanted to get a graphic from a usenet group, we would capture the text from the usenet group (the uuencoded tagged portion) and then we'd paste the pieces together and manually uudecode it to get a graphic. That's a big *big* pain to be able to work -- but, that's how everyone worked... we were used to it... until something came along... a Mosaic browser... that allowed us to integrate our Gopher libraries (gopher://...), with images and files and even this new very simple hypertext language (http://...)....  

Wave is similar in the fact that it's very rich... it's editable by different people at the same time.. it's like one-stop-shopping in a communication format similar to how the web was suddenly one-stop-shopping for all of these images.  For example, the other day, a coworker, in IRC, pasted a link that had his code numbered (too much to paste into IRC). We were using two different mediums (external links to web pages, and IRC) to communicate. We're accustomed to it, but it's a lot of extra work than being able to chat directly in a wave, with text, that both can see edits on, and even syntax coloring..... we started using wave.. boom.. one-stop-shopping again...

So, if we're using the PlusOne gadget (that is, if this has been added to a wave), then we don't need to worry about scraping +1/-1/etc any more...  Want a different kind of gadget? write one... (in Python of course ;)   then add it to your wave.... (or any wave)...  You can have any mixture of gadgets, robots, text, graphics, videos, etc. in a wave...

It's a fundamental paradigm shift... and absolutely cool, huh :)


Cheers,


Glen
---
Glen Jarvis
glen at glenjarvis.com

"Always do the right thing, but don't expect anyone to notice or thank you for it." 
    -- Jeffrey Miller's friend's Grandmother





From abla at fusion.gat.com  Mon Nov 23 19:42:51 2009
From: abla at fusion.gat.com (Gheni Abla)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:42:51 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <4487FC0C-25B3-4B32-8B6E-56C4E0AEB43B@glenjarvis.com>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>	<e5660d770911201523v49b3fa66mcb6f68eefc80fb55@mail.gmail.com>	<5df1e9b00911201525n6be85430g849fd564bb7162c0@mail.gmail.com>	<op.u3py2bdzjvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>	<e5660d770911210740v284a1febp2adaba958c12e61c@mail.gmail.com>	<5E17E96B-547D-4739-9F17-E14B1D4A5667@onsrc.com>	<769bb4300911221341h89ac8bdpfd423095b64324d0@mail.gmail.com>	<D46C26DB-CBA3-4FF2-A30B-AC0CF2ED6D4E@dalkescientific.com>	<20091123095659.7699efb2@dartworks.biz>
	<4487FC0C-25B3-4B32-8B6E-56C4E0AEB43B@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <4B0AD7AB.8040100@fusion.gat.com>

Hi,

Does somebody have an extra invitation for Wave?   I really wanted to 
try out, but I don't have access....

Thanks.

--Gheni Abla



Glen Jarvis wrote:
>>> Really? Searching my sent mail and eyeballing the results, 20% are  
>>> votes, 25% are US international phone prefix, and the other uses of  
>>> "+1" are "other", giving a pretty high false positive rate.
>>>       
>> ===
>>
>> Unless the app only looks at the first two characters in the body of
>> the email
>>     
>
> Don't forget, that we're not talking about a text email anymore. We're talking about a Google Wave. We're not 'scraping' the email to look for items. The PlusOne App is a gadget already build and added to the wave. If someone wants to vote, they click the 'thumbs up' and a +1 is added. Or, they vote for 'thumbs down' (-1). It's very rich media and avoids all of these issues of trying to scrape for +1/-1 in a meaningful context. It's encapsulated as a gadget in the wave. One can interact with lots of parts of a wave at once (like one can interact with a web page in several different places).
>
> I think this is where wave is revolutionary. Does anyone else remember the Gopher, Archie, Veronica, etc. days?  When we had a text based system (gopher was a hierarchy  of text documents that one could navigate)? If one wanted a free ware program, we'd go to Archie to get it. If you wanted to search for different freeware programs, one would go to Veronica (it's been a long time, did I get that backwards)?  Or, if one wanted to get a graphic from a usenet group, we would capture the text from the usenet group (the uuencoded tagged portion) and then we'd paste the pieces together and manually uudecode it to get a graphic. That's a big *big* pain to be able to work -- but, that's how everyone worked... we were used to it... until something came along... a Mosaic browser... that allowed us to integrate our Gopher libraries (gopher://...), with images and files and even this new very simple hypertext language (http://...)....  
>
> Wave is similar in the fact that it's very rich... it's editable by different people at the same time.. it's like one-stop-shopping in a communication format similar to how the web was suddenly one-stop-shopping for all of these images.  For example, the other day, a coworker, in IRC, pasted a link that had his code numbered (too much to paste into IRC). We were using two different mediums (external links to web pages, and IRC) to communicate. We're accustomed to it, but it's a lot of extra work than being able to chat directly in a wave, with text, that both can see edits on, and even syntax coloring..... we started using wave.. boom.. one-stop-shopping again...
>
> So, if we're using the PlusOne gadget (that is, if this has been added to a wave), then we don't need to worry about scraping +1/-1/etc any more...  Want a different kind of gadget? write one... (in Python of course ;)   then add it to your wave.... (or any wave)...  You can have any mixture of gadgets, robots, text, graphics, videos, etc. in a wave...
>
> It's a fundamental paradigm shift... and absolutely cool, huh :)
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Glen
> ---
> Glen Jarvis
> glen at glenjarvis.com
>
> "Always do the right thing, but don't expect anyone to notice or thank you for it." 
>     -- Jeffrey Miller's friend's Grandmother
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>   


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From glen at glenjarvis.com  Mon Nov 23 21:02:29 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:02:29 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Job Posting
In-Reply-To: <0A88F0EFB5F321469B0979289A8B4A420C979F23@eros.darwinpartners.lan>
References: <0A88F0EFB5F321469B0979289A8B4A420C979F23@eros.darwinpartners.lan>
Message-ID: <e5660d770911231202p1793680fg3673b1231bfa2c40@mail.gmail.com>

And, please, only post Python related positions...

Take care,


Glen

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Andrea Duda <aduda at dextrys.com> wrote:

>  *C++ 3 month Consulting Opportunity in Bellevue, WA*
>
>
>
> A market leader in online travel services currently has an opportunity
> available for a C++ consultant.
>
> In this role, you will be designing and implementing extreme scale client
> and server software. You must
>
> have a strong understanding of optimal performance in C++; Extensive
> experience in C++, Java and Microsoft databases on Windows platforms;
>
> Extensive experience in design concepts, development frameworks and SOA
> architectures; Strong experience with algorithms and data structures,
> multithreading, concurrency, caching and scalable/distributed systems.
>
>
>
> Interested applicants please contact Andrea Duda @ 781.213.7802 or
> aduda at dextrys.com
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From bender at onsrc.com  Mon Nov 23 21:31:23 2009
From: bender at onsrc.com (Ryan Delucchi)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:31:23 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Job Posting
In-Reply-To: <e5660d770911231202p1793680fg3673b1231bfa2c40@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0A88F0EFB5F321469B0979289A8B4A420C979F23@eros.darwinpartners.lan>
	<e5660d770911231202p1793680fg3673b1231bfa2c40@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ABE133CA-4E28-4DB2-AC3C-A8681367C121@onsrc.com>

Perhaps we should also kindly ask that job postings should only be for  
"the bay area"?  If and only if the answer to that question is "yes":   
that would mean we have to semi-precisely define the what "the bay  
area" means.

I know when I was job hunting earlier this year: I found myself  
incredibly peeved to see a bunch of postings for say New York or  
Washington State under "sfbay" in Craigslist.  So, I think it's worth  
posing the question.

Ryan

On Nov 23, 2009, at 12:02 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote:

> And, please, only post Python related positions...
>
> Take care,
>
>
> Glen
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Andrea Duda <aduda at dextrys.com>  
> wrote:
> C++ 3 month Consulting Opportunity in Bellevue, WA
>
>
> A market leader in online travel services currently has an  
> opportunity available for a C++ consultant.
>
> In this role, you will be designing and implementing extreme scale  
> client and server software. You must
>
> have a strong understanding of optimal performance in C++; Extensive  
> experience in C++, Java and Microsoft databases on Windows platforms;
>
> Extensive experience in design concepts, development frameworks and  
> SOA architectures; Strong experience with algorithms and data  
> structures, multithreading, concurrency, caching and scalable/ 
> distributed systems.
>
>
> Interested applicants please contact Andrea Duda @ 781.213.7802 or aduda at dextrys.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

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From jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com  Mon Nov 23 21:57:09 2009
From: jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com (Jeremy Fishman)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:57:09 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
In-Reply-To: <4B0AD7AB.8040100@fusion.gat.com>
References: <5df1e9b00911201454t71be74eau2d6376481d60a444@mail.gmail.com>
	<5df1e9b00911201525n6be85430g849fd564bb7162c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u3py2bdzjvp9oo@rc-vaio.foresite.local>
	<e5660d770911210740v284a1febp2adaba958c12e61c@mail.gmail.com>
	<5E17E96B-547D-4739-9F17-E14B1D4A5667@onsrc.com>
	<769bb4300911221341h89ac8bdpfd423095b64324d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<D46C26DB-CBA3-4FF2-A30B-AC0CF2ED6D4E@dalkescientific.com>
	<20091123095659.7699efb2@dartworks.biz>
	<4487FC0C-25B3-4B32-8B6E-56C4E0AEB43B@glenjarvis.com>
	<4B0AD7AB.8040100@fusion.gat.com>
Message-ID: <1f7713e30911231257yb1e753fxe68c54a9916a9c7e@mail.gmail.com>

I'm out a lunch, but I'm grabbing the token to hit you with an invite later
today.

By the way, reminding people that they are nominations, not direct invites.

  - Jeremy

On Nov 23, 2009 11:56 AM, "Gheni Abla" <abla at fusion.gat.com> wrote:

Hi,

Does somebody have an extra invitation for Wave?   I really wanted to try
out, but I don't have access....

Thanks.

--Gheni Abla

Glen Jarvis wrote: >>> >>> Really? Searching my sent mail and eyeballing the
results, 20% are  v...

_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
Baypiggies at python.org
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
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From aleax at google.com  Mon Nov 23 23:51:35 2009
From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:51:35 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Job Posting
In-Reply-To: <ABE133CA-4E28-4DB2-AC3C-A8681367C121@onsrc.com>
References: <0A88F0EFB5F321469B0979289A8B4A420C979F23@eros.darwinpartners.lan>
	<e5660d770911231202p1793680fg3673b1231bfa2c40@mail.gmail.com>
	<ABE133CA-4E28-4DB2-AC3C-A8681367C121@onsrc.com>
Message-ID: <55dc209b0911231451v6365ee2ah78b364ae8db0fcc8@mail.gmail.com>

The requirement is already in the guidelines.

Wikipedia's text defines the "Greater SF Bay Area" as nine counties:
Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, Napa, San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa
Clara, Solano, and Sonoma.  However, the map they show actually
displays 10 counties, adding Santa Cruz county.  I doubt Baypiggies
members would really mind seeing Python job offers in, say, Scott's
Valley, so I tend to agree with the map rather than the text;-).


Alex

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Ryan Delucchi <bender at onsrc.com> wrote:
> Perhaps we should also kindly ask that job postings should only be for "the
> bay area"? ?If and only if the answer to that question is "yes": ?that would
> mean we have to semi-precisely define the what "the bay area" means.
> I know when I was job hunting earlier this year: I found myself incredibly
> peeved to see a bunch of postings for say New York or Washington State under
> "sfbay" in Craigslist.??So, I think it's worth posing the question.
> Ryan
> On Nov 23, 2009, at 12:02 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote:
>
> And, please, only post Python related positions...
> Take care,
>
> Glen
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Andrea Duda <aduda at dextrys.com> wrote:
>>
>> C++ 3 month Consulting Opportunity in Bellevue, WA
>>
>>
>>
>> A market leader in online travel services currently has an opportunity
>> available for a C++ consultant.
>>
>> In this role, you will be designing and implementing extreme scale client
>> and server software. You must
>>
>> have a strong understanding of optimal performance in C++; Extensive
>> experience in C++, Java and Microsoft databases on Windows platforms;
>>
>> Extensive experience in design concepts, development frameworks and SOA
>> architectures; Strong experience with algorithms and data structures,
>> multithreading, concurrency, caching and scalable/distributed systems.
>>
>>
>>
>> Interested applicants please contact Andrea Duda @ 781.213.7802 or
>> aduda at dextrys.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From roderick at sanfransystems.com  Tue Nov 24 00:19:13 2009
From: roderick at sanfransystems.com (Roderick Llewellyn)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:19:13 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] San Francisco Bay Area
References: <mailman.3182.1259016706.2872.baypiggies@python.org>
Message-ID: <DE3B1824975E4474B09A457C3B3BFFD3@orion>

The nine-county area (thus, excluding Santa Cruz) is officially the SF Bay 
Area because those are the counties that belong to the Association of Bay 
Area Governments (ABAG), are part of the Bay Area Air Quality Management 
District (BAAQMD), and part of the Metropolitan Transportation Commission 
(MTC). In fact these three agencies have argued for decades over the 
possibility of their merging together to form a regional government layer 
for the Bay Area. To date these efforts have failed, which is one reason why 
transportation, air quality, and governance is so fractionated and 
inefficient here. Just thought you'd like to know!

Of course, a lot of places have "bay areas"... but there is only one San 
Francisco Bay Area :) And of course, C++ != Python

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <baypiggies-request at python.org>
To: <baypiggies at python.org>
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 2:51 PM
Subject: Baypiggies Digest, Vol 49, Issue 41


> Send Baypiggies mailing list submissions to
> baypiggies at python.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> baypiggies-request at python.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> baypiggies-owner at python.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Baypiggies digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re:  Job Posting (Glen Jarvis)
>   2. Re:  Job Posting (Ryan Delucchi)
>   3. Re:  Speaking of Wave (Jeremy Fishman)
>   4. Re:  Job Posting (Alex Martelli)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:02:29 -0800
> From: Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com>
> To: Andrea Duda <aduda at dextrys.com>
> Cc: baypiggies at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Job Posting
> Message-ID:
> <e5660d770911231202p1793680fg3673b1231bfa2c40 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> And, please, only post Python related positions...
>
> Take care,
>
>
> Glen
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Andrea Duda <aduda at dextrys.com> wrote:
>
>>  *C++ 3 month Consulting Opportunity in Bellevue, WA*
>>
>>
>>
>> A market leader in online travel services currently has an opportunity
>> available for a C++ consultant.
>>
>> In this role, you will be designing and implementing extreme scale client
>> and server software. You must
>>
>> have a strong understanding of optimal performance in C++; Extensive
>> experience in C++, Java and Microsoft databases on Windows platforms;
>>
>> Extensive experience in design concepts, development frameworks and SOA
>> architectures; Strong experience with algorithms and data structures,
>> multithreading, concurrency, caching and scalable/distributed systems.
>>
>>
>>
>> Interested applicants please contact Andrea Duda @ 781.213.7802 or
>> aduda at dextrys.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:31:23 -0800
> From: Ryan Delucchi <bender at onsrc.com>
> To: Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com>
> Cc: baypiggies at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Job Posting
> Message-ID: <ABE133CA-4E28-4DB2-AC3C-A8681367C121 at onsrc.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed";
> DelSp="yes"
>
> Perhaps we should also kindly ask that job postings should only be for
> "the bay area"?  If and only if the answer to that question is "yes":
> that would mean we have to semi-precisely define the what "the bay
> area" means.
>
> I know when I was job hunting earlier this year: I found myself
> incredibly peeved to see a bunch of postings for say New York or
> Washington State under "sfbay" in Craigslist.  So, I think it's worth
> posing the question.
>
> Ryan
>
> On Nov 23, 2009, at 12:02 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote:
>
>> And, please, only post Python related positions...
>>
>> Take care,
>>
>>
>> Glen
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Andrea Duda <aduda at dextrys.com>
>> wrote:
>> C++ 3 month Consulting Opportunity in Bellevue, WA
>>
>>
>> A market leader in online travel services currently has an
>> opportunity available for a C++ consultant.
>>
>> In this role, you will be designing and implementing extreme scale
>> client and server software. You must
>>
>> have a strong understanding of optimal performance in C++; Extensive
>> experience in C++, Java and Microsoft databases on Windows platforms;
>>
>> Extensive experience in design concepts, development frameworks and
>> SOA architectures; Strong experience with algorithms and data
>> structures, multithreading, concurrency, caching and scalable/
>> distributed systems.
>>
>>
>> Interested applicants please contact Andrea Duda @ 781.213.7802 or 
>> aduda at dextrys.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20091123/bfd262c7/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:57:09 -0800
> From: Jeremy Fishman <jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com>
> To: abla at fusion.gat.com
> Cc: Baypiggies <baypiggies at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Speaking of Wave
> Message-ID:
> <1f7713e30911231257yb1e753fxe68c54a9916a9c7e at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I'm out a lunch, but I'm grabbing the token to hit you with an invite 
> later
> today.
>
> By the way, reminding people that they are nominations, not direct 
> invites.
>
>  - Jeremy
>
> On Nov 23, 2009 11:56 AM, "Gheni Abla" <abla at fusion.gat.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Does somebody have an extra invitation for Wave?   I really wanted to try
> out, but I don't have access....
>
> Thanks.
>
> --Gheni Abla
>
> Glen Jarvis wrote: >>> >>> Really? Searching my sent mail and eyeballing 
> the
> results, 20% are  v...
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> -------------- next part --------------
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> URL: 
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20091123/34a23c1c/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:51:35 -0800
> From: Alex Martelli <aleax at google.com>
> To: Ryan Delucchi <bender at onsrc.com>
> Cc: baypiggies at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Job Posting
> Message-ID:
> <55dc209b0911231451v6365ee2ah78b364ae8db0fcc8 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> The requirement is already in the guidelines.
>
> Wikipedia's text defines the "Greater SF Bay Area" as nine counties:
> Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, Napa, San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa
> Clara, Solano, and Sonoma.  However, the map they show actually
> displays 10 counties, adding Santa Cruz county.  I doubt Baypiggies
> members would really mind seeing Python job offers in, say, Scott's
> Valley, so I tend to agree with the map rather than the text;-).
>
>
> Alex
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Ryan Delucchi <bender at onsrc.com> wrote:
>> Perhaps we should also kindly ask that job postings should only be for 
>> "the
>> bay area"? ?If and only if the answer to that question is "yes": ?that 
>> would
>> mean we have to semi-precisely define the what "the bay area" means.
>> I know when I was job hunting earlier this year: I found myself 
>> incredibly
>> peeved to see a bunch of postings for say New York or Washington State 
>> under
>> "sfbay" in Craigslist.??So, I think it's worth posing the question.
>> Ryan
>> On Nov 23, 2009, at 12:02 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote:
>>
>> And, please, only post Python related positions...
>> Take care,
>>
>> Glen
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Andrea Duda <aduda at dextrys.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> C++ 3 month Consulting Opportunity in Bellevue, WA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A market leader in online travel services currently has an opportunity
>>> available for a C++ consultant.
>>>
>>> In this role, you will be designing and implementing extreme scale 
>>> client
>>> and server software. You must
>>>
>>> have a strong understanding of optimal performance in C++; Extensive
>>> experience in C++, Java and Microsoft databases on Windows platforms;
>>>
>>> Extensive experience in design concepts, development frameworks and SOA
>>> architectures; Strong experience with algorithms and data structures,
>>> multithreading, concurrency, caching and scalable/distributed systems.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Interested applicants please contact Andrea Duda @ 781.213.7802 or
>>> aduda at dextrys.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Baypiggies mailing list
>>> Baypiggies at python.org
>>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
> End of Baypiggies Digest, Vol 49, Issue 41
> ******************************************
>
> 


From emile at fenx.com  Tue Nov 24 01:50:15 2009
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:50:15 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Job Posting
In-Reply-To: <55dc209b0911231451v6365ee2ah78b364ae8db0fcc8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0A88F0EFB5F321469B0979289A8B4A420C979F23@eros.darwinpartners.lan>	<e5660d770911231202p1793680fg3673b1231bfa2c40@mail.gmail.com>	<ABE133CA-4E28-4DB2-AC3C-A8681367C121@onsrc.com>
	<55dc209b0911231451v6365ee2ah78b364ae8db0fcc8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B0B2DC7.8080406@fenx.com>

On 11/23/2009 2:51 PM Alex Martelli said...
> The requirement is already in the guidelines.
>
> Wikipedia's text defines the "Greater SF Bay Area" as nine counties:
> Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, Napa, San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa
> Clara, Solano, and Sonoma.  However, the map they show actually
> displays 10 counties, adding Santa Cruz county.  I doubt Baypiggies
> members would really mind seeing Python job offers in, say, Scott's
> Valley, so I tend to agree with the map rather than the text;-).
>
>   
I think I'd also include areas within about an hour and a half commute 
time of the bay area.  I'm sure we all know people that commute in from 
Manteca, Modesto, Hollister, Los Banos, Salinas and possibly even 
Sacramento -- none of which are in the 10 counties...

Emile


> Alex
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Ryan Delucchi <bender at onsrc.com> wrote:
>   
>> Perhaps we should also kindly ask that job postings should only be for "the
>> bay area"?  If and only if the answer to that question is "yes":  that would
>> mean we have to semi-precisely define the what "the bay area" means.


From bender at onsrc.com  Tue Nov 24 01:52:09 2009
From: bender at onsrc.com (Ryan Delucchi)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:52:09 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Job Posting
In-Reply-To: <55dc209b0911231451v6365ee2ah78b364ae8db0fcc8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0A88F0EFB5F321469B0979289A8B4A420C979F23@eros.darwinpartners.lan>
	<e5660d770911231202p1793680fg3673b1231bfa2c40@mail.gmail.com>
	<ABE133CA-4E28-4DB2-AC3C-A8681367C121@onsrc.com>
	<55dc209b0911231451v6365ee2ah78b364ae8db0fcc8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B1C4ABB0-2239-4373-B72E-F42D234F8417@onsrc.com>

And I doubt they'd mind Santa Cruz, for that matter.  I sure as heck  
wouldn't ... of course my bias derived from the fact I graduated from  
UCSC probably shows here :-)

Aside from that Santa Cruz is often regarded as a suburb of Silicon  
Valley,  Borland was (and perhaps still is?) in Scotts Valley, there  
is a gaming company called TKO Software HQ and Lightsurf started in  
Santa Cruz.  And of course SCO Unix obviously came from Santa Cruz.   
At one time Santa Cruz was even referred to as "Silicon Beach" (a name  
that is obviously inspired by "Silicon Valley").

So yes, in short, I (and I suspect most) would concur with Alex on  
this one.

Ryan

On Nov 23, 2009, at 2:51 PM, Alex Martelli wrote:

> The requirement is already in the guidelines.
>
> Wikipedia's text defines the "Greater SF Bay Area" as nine counties:
> Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, Napa, San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa
> Clara, Solano, and Sonoma.  However, the map they show actually
> displays 10 counties, adding Santa Cruz county.  I doubt Baypiggies
> members would really mind seeing Python job offers in, say, Scott's
> Valley, so I tend to agree with the map rather than the text;-).
>
>
> Alex
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Ryan Delucchi <bender at onsrc.com>  
> wrote:
>> Perhaps we should also kindly ask that job postings should only be  
>> for "the
>> bay area"?  If and only if the answer to that question is "yes":   
>> that would
>> mean we have to semi-precisely define the what "the bay area" means.
>> I know when I was job hunting earlier this year: I found myself  
>> incredibly
>> peeved to see a bunch of postings for say New York or Washington  
>> State under
>> "sfbay" in Craigslist.  So, I think it's worth posing the question.
>> Ryan
>> On Nov 23, 2009, at 12:02 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote:
>>
>> And, please, only post Python related positions...
>> Take care,
>>
>> Glen
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Andrea Duda <aduda at dextrys.com>  
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> C++ 3 month Consulting Opportunity in Bellevue, WA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A market leader in online travel services currently has an  
>>> opportunity
>>> available for a C++ consultant.
>>>
>>> In this role, you will be designing and implementing extreme scale  
>>> client
>>> and server software. You must
>>>
>>> have a strong understanding of optimal performance in C++; Extensive
>>> experience in C++, Java and Microsoft databases on Windows  
>>> platforms;
>>>
>>> Extensive experience in design concepts, development frameworks  
>>> and SOA
>>> architectures; Strong experience with algorithms and data  
>>> structures,
>>> multithreading, concurrency, caching and scalable/distributed  
>>> systems.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Interested applicants please contact Andrea Duda @ 781.213.7802 or
>>> aduda at dextrys.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Baypiggies mailing list
>>> Baypiggies at python.org
>>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>


From recruiter at zvents.com  Tue Nov 24 18:48:42 2009
From: recruiter at zvents.com (recruiter at zvents.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:48:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Looking for a Sr Web Developer - Job Opening in SF Bay
	Area
Message-ID: <1259084922.25911178@192.168.2.227>

This is a permanent position located in San Mateo CA.

We are Zvents (www.zvents.com) and are taking the hyper local space by storm with our search technology. Currently we are looking to add a V-8 powered Ruby engineer who has experience developing web applications. We are looking for someone who has a strong computer science background from a leading program as well as experience delivering consumer-facing, database driven web applications in Ruby. Experience building the client side of web services for a search application is a plus. 

Summary of essential job functions

Combine Rails expertise with database design and Javascript skills to work on all layers of the front-end application stack.  Ruby on Rails, Python, Perl or PHP, strong data structure and design skills, previous experience working on a production, high-traffic web site or ad network, knowledge of ?raw? JavaScript as well as the jQuery framework, XHTML and CSS.

About you
You love Web 2.0 but you are not a .Net czar. Your bag is Ruby and/or Python and JavaScript and you are known to write code that works, really works. You are aching to work in a scrum environment - or perhaps you already do.  Even better!! Design patterns are your passion. You love consumer products because your mom can understand what you are working on.   You avoid premature optimization. You spend as much time writing tests as you do writing the implementation, and you tend to do both at the same time.You're ready to work elbow deep with some the brightest engineers in consumer web 2.0 and have a reputation for speaking plainly, for taking risks, for being creative, and for being secure enough in your intelligence to some times admit ignorance. You are a pillar of reliability and crave success.   

Bonus
Familiarity with Merb, Nginx, Thin, MySQL, Hypertable and Solr




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Nov 24 19:46:15 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:46:15 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Looking for a Sr Web Developer - Job Opening in	SF
	Bay Area
In-Reply-To: <1259084922.25911178@192.168.2.227>
References: <1259084922.25911178@192.168.2.227>
Message-ID: <20091124184615.GA18677@panix.com>

This does not sound like a Python position.  BayPIGgies is strictly for
positions that involve Python.

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009, recruiter at zvents.com wrote:
>
> This is a permanent position located in San Mateo CA.
> 
> We are Zvents (www.zvents.com) and are taking the hyper local space by storm with our search technology. Currently we are looking to add a V-8 powered Ruby engineer who has experience developing web applications. We are looking for someone who has a strong computer science background from a leading program as well as experience delivering consumer-facing, database driven web applications in Ruby. Experience building the client side of web services for a search application is a plus. 
> 
> Summary of essential job functions?
> Combine Rails expertise with database design and Javascript skills to work on all layers of the front-end application stack.  Ruby on Rails, Python, Perl or PHP, strong data structure and design skills, previous experience working on a production, high-traffic web site or ad network, knowledge of ?raw? JavaScript as well as the jQuery framework, XHTML and CSS.
> 
> About you
> You love Web 2.0 but you are not a .Net czar. Your bag is Ruby and/or Python and JavaScript and you are known to write code that works, really works. You are aching to work in a scrum environment - or perhaps you already do.  Even better!! Design patterns are your passion. You love consumer products because your mom can understand what you are working on.   You avoid premature optimization. You spend as much time writing tests as you do writing the implementation, and you tend to do both at the same time.You're ready to work elbow deep with some the brightest engineers in consumer web 2.0 and have a reputation for speaking plainly, for taking risks, for being creative, and for being secure enough in your intelligence to some times admit ignorance. You are a pillar of reliability and crave success.   
> 
> Bonus
> Familiarity with Merb, Nginx, Thin, MySQL, Hypertable and Solr
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
to post the wrong information.  

From simeonf at gmail.com  Tue Nov 24 21:05:17 2009
From: simeonf at gmail.com (Simeon Franklin)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:05:17 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] code review or tool suggestion
Message-ID: <e58a4bea0911241205g71cc7c16k98f5b97fbfa7dfb1@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all -

I'm messing with a problem that isn't my forte and thought I'd solicit
some advice. Despite not really liking the sysadmin hat I'm managing a
server for a real estate office whose disk space has gotten tight due
to stored mail. Real estate agents like to schlep around 20Mb
documents via email - who knew?

Anyway I started to implement some policies to reclaim a bit of space
- one of which was deleting large attachments from old files and sent
files. I haven't been able to find a tool that will do this
automatically - the only thing I could find was a tool written in Perl
by Dan Born last updated back in 2005 (http://danborn.net/delatt/) and
I couldn't actually get it to work.

I made my usual decision (try to write a new tool in Python rather
than trying to debug Perl). delatt is only about 300 lines of perl and
supports mbox as well as maildir, plus uses regexes to parse out the
mime attachments - I figured it wouldn't take much work despite never
having used the email module in the standard lib.

The result is pydelatt (see http://gist.github.com/242055). If anyone
knows of a linux console tool that does what I'm trying to do (strip
attachments from emails in maildir format) I'll take any suggestions.
More to the point of Baypiggies though - if anyone wants to take a
look at my code I'd be happy for any pointers.

The email module in the stdlib seems to have changed quite a bit
between the python versions I tested it on (2.4 and 2.5) and generally
the API seemed a little clunky to me. Mime messages can be parsed into
a tree structure but the .walk() method of the Message class didn't
walk all the multipart nodes of the tree as I expected. Also I
couldn't see a built in way of removing nodes so I ended up rebuilding
the tree of the parent node of the attachment I wanted to delete...
What I have works (I ran it on about 100 Gigs of email without any
problems) but I wondered if I'm missing something...

-regards
Simeon Franklin

From drewp at bigasterisk.com  Wed Nov 25 08:56:08 2009
From: drewp at bigasterisk.com (Drew Perttula)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:56:08 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] code review or tool suggestion
In-Reply-To: <e58a4bea0911241205g71cc7c16k98f5b97fbfa7dfb1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e58a4bea0911241205g71cc7c16k98f5b97fbfa7dfb1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B0CE318.2020202@bigasterisk.com>

Simeon Franklin wrote:
> More to the point of Baypiggies though - if anyone wants to take a
> look at my code I'd be happy for any pointers.


     28	    usage = "usage: %prog [-ovt] file"

The second 'usage' is apparently ignored (in py 2.6.2)-- you can leave 
it out and the output looks the same (!).


     30	    parser.add_option("-o", action="store_true", dest="stdout", 
default=False,
     31	                      help="Print to stdout instead of modifying 
file")

Instead of dest, I like add_option("-o", "--stdout", action=...). 
Optparse chooses the long form for the option name, but the end user can 
now make more readable commandlines if he or she wants to.


     46	            for i, sub_part in enumerate(part.get_payload()):
     47	                replacement = process_node(sub_part)
     48	                if replacement:
     49	                    del(parts_list[i])

I don't have a proof, but this del seems like a bug. As soon as you 
delete an element out of the middle of parts_list, the rest of the 
parts_list wouldn't be in sync with the i index, so a second delete 
would hit the wrong part, no? This can surely be rewritten without any 
indexing.

Also, I don't think you need to repeat the get_payload call in 43 and 
46. Maybe you had a previous version that appended the new part right 
onto parts_list in line 50? (Although even if you did that, you still 
wouldn't need to repeat the get_payload call.)

48 makes me nervous because it's a sloppy check for a value that could 
be False or "" or "some text". I'd probably use None as the special 
token and "if replacement is not None:" on line 48.


     38	    def process_node(part):

This function is nested just so it can access 'options' from the outer 
function, as far as I can tell. It would probably be easier to read if 
process_node was at the top-level after main(), and you passed in 
'verbose' as an argument. That way, process_node wouldn't be 
unnecessarily coupled with main(), main would be shorter, other programs 
could import and use process_node.


     64	        print "No filename was specified"
     65	        exit(-1)
     66	    else:

raise SystemExit("No filename was specified")
would be similar, but it prints to stderr (good!) and exits with a 1 
(close enough!).

I think it would be quicker for readers to parse this as an error check 
if you dropped the 'else' and unindented 67-69.


From john_re at fastmail.us  Wed Nov 25 11:11:08 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:11:08 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Greater SFBA & SiV - Born & Raised
Message-ID: <1259143868.544.1346965703@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Just curious: who reading this list was born & raised here?  If you were, please reply to this message on this list.  Thanks.  :)

[Feel free to mention the decade from whence you came.]

I was.  50's. (Just barely.)

re:
http://baypiggies.net/index_html/job-listings

From john_re at fastmail.us  Wed Nov 25 11:12:17 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:12:17 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] SFBA(Greater) - Re:  Job Posting
In-Reply-To: <55dc209b0911231451v6365ee2ah78b364ae8db0fcc8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0A88F0EFB5F321469B0979289A8B4A420C979F23@eros.darwinpartners.lan>
	<e5660d770911231202p1793680fg3673b1231bfa2c40@mail.gmail.com>
	<ABE133CA-4E28-4DB2-AC3C-A8681367C121@onsrc.com>
	<55dc209b0911231451v6365ee2ah78b364ae8db0fcc8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1259143937.639.1346966889@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Speaking with the authority of someone interested in python, & having been born & raised in the SFBA, (greater, even), I say, with respect to job postings, "Please restrict the geographic region to the greater SF Bay Area and Silicon Valley" should be interpreted as:

1) Any place from which water feeds into the SF Bay, or

2) Any place from which a flying circus could travel to Saint Francis' bay, without refueling.


On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:51:35 -0800, "Alex Martelli" <aleax at google.com> said:
> The requirement is already in the guidelines.
> 
> Wikipedia's text defines the "Greater SF Bay Area" as nine counties:
> Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, Napa, San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa
> Clara, Solano, and Sonoma.  However, the map they show actually
> displays 10 counties, adding Santa Cruz county.  I doubt Baypiggies
> members would really mind seeing Python job offers in, say, Scott's
> Valley, so I tend to agree with the map rather than the text;-).
> 
> 
> Alex
> 
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Ryan Delucchi <bender at onsrc.com> wrote:
> > Perhaps we should also kindly ask that job postings should only be for "the
> > bay area"? ?If and only if the answer to that question is "yes": ?that would
> > mean we have to semi-precisely define the what "the bay area" means.
> > I know when I was job hunting earlier this year: I found myself incredibly
> > peeved to see a bunch of postings for say New York or Washington State under
> > "sfbay" in Craigslist.??So, I think it's worth posing the question.
> > Ryan
> > On Nov 23, 2009, at 12:02 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote:
> >
> > And, please, only post Python related positions...
> > Take care,
> >
> > Glen
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Andrea Duda <aduda at dextrys.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> C++ 3 month Consulting Opportunity in Bellevue, WA
...

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Wed Nov 25 15:44:21 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:44:21 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] code review or tool suggestion
In-Reply-To: <4B0CE318.2020202@bigasterisk.com>
References: <e58a4bea0911241205g71cc7c16k98f5b97fbfa7dfb1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B0CE318.2020202@bigasterisk.com>
Message-ID: <A99BE543-E429-435B-B7D6-F0D1325DF60F@glenjarvis.com>

I learn *so* much from code reviews....

Just reading this conversation has helped me tremendously.... For  
example, raising SystemExit is not something I've done before as a  
clean way to exit. I always used sys.exit (or for rare cases _exit ).  
Now I know better.

Obviously with reviews, one must take the reviewer into account as  
well as the comments that they make. (Everyone has an opinion.. Often  
one gets conflicting opinions on the same issue. And some reviewers  
even give advise that breaks PEP-8 with the preamble... "*I* like to  
do...." or give obviously unpythonic advise)

However, Drew's advise was very Pythonic and helpful. I *really* liked  
reading Drew's comments because it showed readability was important to  
him, that he has knowledge of the language (what works in what  
version), he has looked at potential bugs, and, of course, that  
exercising code/code coverage is important.

No matter how good we are, we can all learn from code reviews. I'm  
personally *very* interested in this theme if any one else is brave  
enough to stick their neck out.

I think I'll dig out something and publish to the list the next few  
days, asking for a review. I'll try to find something very small to  
not overwelm the readers. I'll also put on my thick skin and remember  
that any comments made can make me grow as a programmer.

Anyone else?


Glen


On Nov 24, 2009, at 11:56 PM, Drew Perttula <drewp at bigasterisk.com>  
wrote:

> Simeon Franklin wrote:
>> More to the point of Baypiggies though - if anyone wants to take a
>> look at my code I'd be happy for any pointers.
>
>
>    28        usage = "usage: %prog [-ovt] file"
>
> The second 'usage' is apparently ignored (in py 2.6.2)-- you can  
> leave it out and the output looks the same (!).
>
>
>    30        parser.add_option("-o", action="store_true",  
> dest="stdout", default=False,
>    31                          help="Print to stdout instead of  
> modifying file")
>
> Instead of dest, I like add_option("-o", "--stdout", action=...).  
> Optparse chooses the long form for the option name, but the end user  
> can now make more readable commandlines if he or she wants to.
>
>
>    46                for i, sub_part in enumerate(part.get_payload()):
>    47                    replacement = process_node(sub_part)
>    48                    if replacement:
>    49                        del(parts_list[i])
>
> I don't have a proof, but this del seems like a bug. As soon as you  
> delete an element out of the middle of parts_list, the rest of the  
> parts_list wouldn't be in sync with the i index, so a second delete  
> would hit the wrong part, no? This can surely be rewritten without  
> any indexing.
>
> Also, I don't think you need to repeat the get_payload call in 43  
> and 46. Maybe you had a previous version that appended the new part  
> right onto parts_list in line 50? (Although even if you did that,  
> you still wouldn't need to repeat the get_payload call.)
>
> 48 makes me nervous because it's a sloppy check for a value that  
> could be False or "" or "some text". I'd probably use None as the  
> special token and "if replacement is not None:" on line 48.
>
>
>    38        def process_node(part):
>
> This function is nested just so it can access 'options' from the  
> outer function, as far as I can tell. It would probably be easier to  
> read if process_node was at the top-level after main(), and you  
> passed in 'verbose' as an argument. That way, process_node wouldn't  
> be unnecessarily coupled with main(), main would be shorter, other  
> programs could import and use process_node.
>
>
>    64            print "No filename was specified"
>    65            exit(-1)
>    66        else:
>
> raise SystemExit("No filename was specified")
> would be similar, but it prints to stderr (good!) and exits with a 1  
> (close enough!).
>
> I think it would be quicker for readers to parse this as an error  
> check if you dropped the 'else' and unindented 67-69.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

From brent.tubbs at gmail.com  Wed Nov 25 18:20:52 2009
From: brent.tubbs at gmail.com (Brent Tubbs)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:20:52 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] code review or tool suggestion
In-Reply-To: <A99BE543-E429-435B-B7D6-F0D1325DF60F@glenjarvis.com>
References: <e58a4bea0911241205g71cc7c16k98f5b97fbfa7dfb1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B0CE318.2020202@bigasterisk.com>
	<A99BE543-E429-435B-B7D6-F0D1325DF60F@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <769bb4300911250920i5237d0a1ubd8467837de6c87a@mail.gmail.com>

I didn't know about "raise SystemExit" either.  I like it!  And I like the
idea of doing more code reviews in the group.

I wish we had a better tool for it than just email though, like the one
built into Google Code that lets you attach comments to lines of code.  I'm
not very good at understanding the context when I read lines pasted into an
email.

Brent

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 7:44 AM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:

> I learn *so* much from code reviews....
>
> Just reading this conversation has helped me tremendously.... For example,
> raising SystemExit is not something I've done before as a clean way to exit.
> I always used sys.exit (or for rare cases _exit ). Now I know better.
>
> Obviously with reviews, one must take the reviewer into account as well as
> the comments that they make. (Everyone has an opinion.. Often one gets
> conflicting opinions on the same issue. And some reviewers even give advise
> that breaks PEP-8 with the preamble... "*I* like to do...." or give
> obviously unpythonic advise)
>
> However, Drew's advise was very Pythonic and helpful. I *really* liked
> reading Drew's comments because it showed readability was important to him,
> that he has knowledge of the language (what works in what version), he has
> looked at potential bugs, and, of course, that exercising code/code coverage
> is important.
>
> No matter how good we are, we can all learn from code reviews. I'm
> personally *very* interested in this theme if any one else is brave enough
> to stick their neck out.
>
> I think I'll dig out something and publish to the list the next few days,
> asking for a review. I'll try to find something very small to not overwelm
> the readers. I'll also put on my thick skin and remember that any comments
> made can make me grow as a programmer.
>
> Anyone else?
>
>
> Glen
>
>
>
> On Nov 24, 2009, at 11:56 PM, Drew Perttula <drewp at bigasterisk.com> wrote:
>
>  Simeon Franklin wrote:
>>
>>> More to the point of Baypiggies though - if anyone wants to take a
>>> look at my code I'd be happy for any pointers.
>>>
>>
>>
>>   28        usage = "usage: %prog [-ovt] file"
>>
>> The second 'usage' is apparently ignored (in py 2.6.2)-- you can leave it
>> out and the output looks the same (!).
>>
>>
>>   30        parser.add_option("-o", action="store_true", dest="stdout",
>> default=False,
>>   31                          help="Print to stdout instead of modifying
>> file")
>>
>> Instead of dest, I like add_option("-o", "--stdout", action=...). Optparse
>> chooses the long form for the option name, but the end user can now make
>> more readable commandlines if he or she wants to.
>>
>>
>>   46                for i, sub_part in enumerate(part.get_payload()):
>>   47                    replacement = process_node(sub_part)
>>   48                    if replacement:
>>   49                        del(parts_list[i])
>>
>> I don't have a proof, but this del seems like a bug. As soon as you delete
>> an element out of the middle of parts_list, the rest of the parts_list
>> wouldn't be in sync with the i index, so a second delete would hit the wrong
>> part, no? This can surely be rewritten without any indexing.
>>
>> Also, I don't think you need to repeat the get_payload call in 43 and 46.
>> Maybe you had a previous version that appended the new part right onto
>> parts_list in line 50? (Although even if you did that, you still wouldn't
>> need to repeat the get_payload call.)
>>
>> 48 makes me nervous because it's a sloppy check for a value that could be
>> False or "" or "some text". I'd probably use None as the special token and
>> "if replacement is not None:" on line 48.
>>
>>
>>   38        def process_node(part):
>>
>> This function is nested just so it can access 'options' from the outer
>> function, as far as I can tell. It would probably be easier to read if
>> process_node was at the top-level after main(), and you passed in 'verbose'
>> as an argument. That way, process_node wouldn't be unnecessarily coupled
>> with main(), main would be shorter, other programs could import and use
>> process_node.
>>
>>
>>   64            print "No filename was specified"
>>   65            exit(-1)
>>   66        else:
>>
>> raise SystemExit("No filename was specified")
>> would be similar, but it prints to stderr (good!) and exits with a 1
>> (close enough!).
>>
>> I think it would be quicker for readers to parse this as an error check if
>> you dropped the 'else' and unindented 67-69.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From jim at well.com  Wed Nov 25 18:51:31 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:51:31 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] code review or tool suggestion
In-Reply-To: <A99BE543-E429-435B-B7D6-F0D1325DF60F@glenjarvis.com>
References: <e58a4bea0911241205g71cc7c16k98f5b97fbfa7dfb1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B0CE318.2020202@bigasterisk.com>
	<A99BE543-E429-435B-B7D6-F0D1325DF60F@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <1259171491.6388.4.camel@jim-laptop>


+1111111 
great possibilities! 
terrific to share the heart of our focus.
could be good fodder for newbie nuggets.  


On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 06:44 -0800, Glen Jarvis wrote:
> I learn *so* much from code reviews....
> 
> Just reading this conversation has helped me tremendously.... For  
> example, raising SystemExit is not something I've done before as a  
> clean way to exit. I always used sys.exit (or for rare cases _exit ).  
> Now I know better.
> 
> Obviously with reviews, one must take the reviewer into account as  
> well as the comments that they make. (Everyone has an opinion.. Often  
> one gets conflicting opinions on the same issue. And some reviewers  
> even give advise that breaks PEP-8 with the preamble... "*I* like to  
> do...." or give obviously unpythonic advise)
> 
> However, Drew's advise was very Pythonic and helpful. I *really* liked  
> reading Drew's comments because it showed readability was important to  
> him, that he has knowledge of the language (what works in what  
> version), he has looked at potential bugs, and, of course, that  
> exercising code/code coverage is important.
> 
> No matter how good we are, we can all learn from code reviews. I'm  
> personally *very* interested in this theme if any one else is brave  
> enough to stick their neck out.
> 
> I think I'll dig out something and publish to the list the next few  
> days, asking for a review. I'll try to find something very small to  
> not overwelm the readers. I'll also put on my thick skin and remember  
> that any comments made can make me grow as a programmer.
> 
> Anyone else?
> 
> 
> Glen
> 
> 
> On Nov 24, 2009, at 11:56 PM, Drew Perttula <drewp at bigasterisk.com>  
> wrote:
> 
> > Simeon Franklin wrote:
> >> More to the point of Baypiggies though - if anyone wants to take a
> >> look at my code I'd be happy for any pointers.
> >
> >
> >    28        usage = "usage: %prog [-ovt] file"
> >
> > The second 'usage' is apparently ignored (in py 2.6.2)-- you can  
> > leave it out and the output looks the same (!).
> >
> >
> >    30        parser.add_option("-o", action="store_true",  
> > dest="stdout", default=False,
> >    31                          help="Print to stdout instead of  
> > modifying file")
> >
> > Instead of dest, I like add_option("-o", "--stdout", action=...).  
> > Optparse chooses the long form for the option name, but the end user  
> > can now make more readable commandlines if he or she wants to.
> >
> >
> >    46                for i, sub_part in enumerate(part.get_payload()):
> >    47                    replacement = process_node(sub_part)
> >    48                    if replacement:
> >    49                        del(parts_list[i])
> >
> > I don't have a proof, but this del seems like a bug. As soon as you  
> > delete an element out of the middle of parts_list, the rest of the  
> > parts_list wouldn't be in sync with the i index, so a second delete  
> > would hit the wrong part, no? This can surely be rewritten without  
> > any indexing.
> >
> > Also, I don't think you need to repeat the get_payload call in 43  
> > and 46. Maybe you had a previous version that appended the new part  
> > right onto parts_list in line 50? (Although even if you did that,  
> > you still wouldn't need to repeat the get_payload call.)
> >
> > 48 makes me nervous because it's a sloppy check for a value that  
> > could be False or "" or "some text". I'd probably use None as the  
> > special token and "if replacement is not None:" on line 48.
> >
> >
> >    38        def process_node(part):
> >
> > This function is nested just so it can access 'options' from the  
> > outer function, as far as I can tell. It would probably be easier to  
> > read if process_node was at the top-level after main(), and you  
> > passed in 'verbose' as an argument. That way, process_node wouldn't  
> > be unnecessarily coupled with main(), main would be shorter, other  
> > programs could import and use process_node.
> >
> >
> >    64            print "No filename was specified"
> >    65            exit(-1)
> >    66        else:
> >
> > raise SystemExit("No filename was specified")
> > would be similar, but it prints to stderr (good!) and exits with a 1  
> > (close enough!).
> >
> > I think it would be quicker for readers to parse this as an error  
> > check if you dropped the 'else' and unindented 67-69.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> 


From rich at noir.com  Wed Nov 25 19:17:18 2009
From: rich at noir.com (K. Richard Pixley)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:17:18 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] code review or tool suggestion
In-Reply-To: <1259171491.6388.4.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <e58a4bea0911241205g71cc7c16k98f5b97fbfa7dfb1@mail.gmail.com>	<4B0CE318.2020202@bigasterisk.com>	<A99BE543-E429-435B-B7D6-F0D1325DF60F@glenjarvis.com>
	<1259171491.6388.4.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <4B0D74AE.4030209@noir.com>

I, too, think small code reviews are a great idea.

I prefer basic text for code reviews, though.  No other tool I've seen 
is as flexible or as easy to understand.

I'll keep an eye out for any of my code that isn't proprietary.

--rich

From bender at onsrc.com  Wed Nov 25 19:42:25 2009
From: bender at onsrc.com (Ryan Delucchi)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:42:25 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Greater SFBA & SiV - Born & Raised
In-Reply-To: <1259143868.544.1346965703@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1259143868.544.1346965703@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <D8713680-EE51-4F68-B62E-C12CC6DB8694@onsrc.com>

I too find these stats interesting, everyone who is so inclined: feel  
free to join in.

Born and raised:		Stockton.
College Years: 		Santa Cruz
Work History (so far):	Alviso, Palo Alto, Mountain View, SF,  
Pleasanton (current)

Ryan

On Nov 25, 2009, at 2:11 AM, john_re wrote:

> Just curious: who reading this list was born & raised here?  If you  
> were, please reply to this message on this list.  Thanks.  :)
>
> [Feel free to mention the decade from whence you came.]
>
> I was.  50's. (Just barely.)
>
> re:
> http://baypiggies.net/index_html/job-listings
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From glen at glenjarvis.com  Wed Nov 25 19:42:50 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:42:50 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] code review or tool suggestion
In-Reply-To: <4B0D74AE.4030209@noir.com>
References: <e58a4bea0911241205g71cc7c16k98f5b97fbfa7dfb1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B0CE318.2020202@bigasterisk.com>
	<A99BE543-E429-435B-B7D6-F0D1325DF60F@glenjarvis.com>
	<1259171491.6388.4.camel@jim-laptop> <4B0D74AE.4030209@noir.com>
Message-ID: <e5660d770911251042xea093f2mb07f3acd3e3effc9@mail.gmail.com>

There are a couple of options (I've not tested most of them):

1) The author of Djblets (add-ons to django) wrote Review Board (
http://www.reviewboard.org/)
2) My colleague uses Paste Bin (http://pastebin.com/)
3) And, of course, I've discovered with Google Wave that we don't need
external sites and everything can be done in the wave easily... However, few
people have Google Wave yet -- so this will be some time coming...


I'm glad we're going to do some reviews. Although it's doubtful I can give
Simeon any extra help, I want to go back and review that code more
thoroughly. Frankly, I've learned to be a much better programmer from
reading code from good programmers like Simeon. The more you read, the
better you can write -- in my opinion. And, I'm still in Middle School :)

Cheers,

Glen




On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 10:17 AM, K. Richard Pixley <rich at noir.com> wrote:

> I, too, think small code reviews are a great idea.
>
> I prefer basic text for code reviews, though.  No other tool I've seen is
> as flexible or as easy to understand.
>
> I'll keep an eye out for any of my code that isn't proprietary.
>
> --rich
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From bender at onsrc.com  Wed Nov 25 19:47:34 2009
From: bender at onsrc.com (Ryan Delucchi)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:47:34 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] code review or tool suggestion
In-Reply-To: <4B0D74AE.4030209@noir.com>
References: <e58a4bea0911241205g71cc7c16k98f5b97fbfa7dfb1@mail.gmail.com>	<4B0CE318.2020202@bigasterisk.com>	<A99BE543-E429-435B-B7D6-F0D1325DF60F@glenjarvis.com>
	<1259171491.6388.4.camel@jim-laptop> <4B0D74AE.4030209@noir.com>
Message-ID: <B486F6A9-4827-47A9-B2E3-9A85FA3F052F@onsrc.com>

My place of work actually has adopted code reviews as standard  
practice and the previous places I've worked have had both informal  
and formal code reviews on occasion.

While I tend to like code reviews, the usual pitfall is having enough  
bandwidth to put the required energy into them. that being said, I am  
all for us doing some code reviews ... I'll just need to get back to  
writing python code ;-)

Ryan

On Nov 25, 2009, at 10:17 AM, K. Richard Pixley wrote:

> I, too, think small code reviews are a great idea.
>
> I prefer basic text for code reviews, though.  No other tool I've  
> seen is as flexible or as easy to understand.
>
> I'll keep an eye out for any of my code that isn't proprietary.
>
> --rich
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From rich at noir.com  Wed Nov 25 21:02:11 2009
From: rich at noir.com (K. Richard Pixley)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 12:02:11 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] newbie q
Message-ID: <4B0D8D43.3090602@noir.com>

Here's a newbie question.

I'm looking to create a collection of opaque types to use as constants, 
akin to enums in C.  I want to be able to compare for equality and 
inclusion in the set.

I've tried using classes & subclasses:

class state(object):
    class _base(object):
        def __repr__(self):
            return '<%s>' % self.__class__

    class up(_base):
        pass

    class down(_base):
        pass

    class turned_around(_base):
        pass

# containment
isinstance(x, state._base)

# equality
x == state.up

And I've tried using specific instances:

class state(object):
    class _base(object):
       def __init__(self, name):
            assert isinstance(name, string)
            self.name = name

        def __repr__(self):
            return '<%s: %s>' % (self.__class__, self.name)

    up = state('up')
    down = state('down')
    turned_around = state('turned_around')

# containment
isinstance(x, state._base)

# equality
x == state.up

but neither seems particularly terse, clean, or elegant.  Simple string 
constants and lists are neither opaque nor typed in the sense that to 
test for equality, I'd need to first test for type, (ie, set inclusion), 
then test for equality.

states = ['up', 'down', 'turned_around']

# containment
x in states

# equality
x in states and x == 'up'

This is also disappointing because it's impossible to distinguish 
between two different sets of constants.  Eg, I can't distinguish my.up 
from your.up if I'm just using 'up'.

What are other people using?

--rich

From simeonf at gmail.com  Wed Nov 25 22:50:34 2009
From: simeonf at gmail.com (Simeon Franklin)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:50:34 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] code review or tool suggestion
In-Reply-To: <e58a4bea0911251206q2e88341u95e2e04b98e66523@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e58a4bea0911241205g71cc7c16k98f5b97fbfa7dfb1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B0CE318.2020202@bigasterisk.com>
	<e58a4bea0911251206q2e88341u95e2e04b98e66523@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e58a4bea0911251350t44d09f29n616bb434be1395d0@mail.gmail.com>

Whoops - meant to send this to the list...

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Simeon Franklin <simeonf at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] code review or tool suggestion
To: Drew Perttula <drewp at bigasterisk.com>


Wow Drew - thank you so much. I definitely owe you a post-baypiggies
drink sometime. I've updated the code at github
(http://gist.github.com/242055) with my changes taking into account
your comments below.

I followed your suggestions on optparse style - using long options
instead 'dest' makes sense and gives flexibility to the command line.
The real meat was in the handling of multipart sections - you found a
bug plus just noticed the general untidyness left from ad-hoc
refactoring.

I didn't rewrite it without indexing - the index captures the order of
the attachments and is significant - but instead I kept a dict with an
index:replacement mapping and used the dict to update the list with
the original parts of the container. This also made the code (I think)
a bit more intelligible; what was

42 ? ? ? ?if part.is_multipart():
43 ? ? ? ? ? ?parts_list = part.get_payload()
44 ? ? ? ? ? ?new_parts_list = []
45 ? ? ? ? ? ?modify = False
46 ? ? ? ? ? ?for i, sub_part in enumerate(part.get_payload()):
47 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?replacement = process_node(sub_part)
48 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if replacement:
49 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?del(parts_list[i])
50 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?new_parts_list.append(replacement)
51 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?modify = True
52 ? ? ? ? ? ?if modify:
53 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?part.set_payload(parts_list + new_parts_list)

is now

51 if part.is_multipart():
52 ? ? ? ? parts_list = part.get_payload()
53 ? ? ? ? new_parts = {}
54 ? ? ? ? for i, sub_part in enumerate(parts_list):
55 ? ? ? ? ? ? replacement = process_node(sub_part, options)
56 ? ? ? ? ? ? if replacement is not None:
57 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? new_parts[i] = replacement
58 ? ? ? ? if update_list_from_dict(parts_list, new_parts):
59 ? ? ? ? ? ? part.set_payload(parts_list)

I also incorporated your suggestion about the return value of
process_node - it made sense to me to "sloppy" check the return value
since it will either be an object (True) or an explicit False. More
explicit however is to return None (which semantically makes sense -
the function returns a replacement or None) and then the check reads
like english: if replacement is not None...

I still don't feel thrilled with my understanding of the email/MIME
API but I do feel better about my code... Thanks for taking the time
to take a look! I'd be happy to return the favor at any time.

-regards
Simeon Franklin

From hyperneato at gmail.com  Wed Nov 25 23:10:35 2009
From: hyperneato at gmail.com (Isaac)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:10:35 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] newbie q
In-Reply-To: <4B0D8D43.3090602@noir.com>
References: <4B0D8D43.3090602@noir.com>
Message-ID: <7260654a0911251410o3d9de839ga89b8dbf4acf96e6@mail.gmail.com>

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/36932/whats-the-best-way-to-implement-an-enum-in-python

Hope this helps

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 12:02 PM, K. Richard Pixley <rich at noir.com> wrote:

> Here's a newbie question.
>
> I'm looking to create a collection of opaque types to use as constants,
> akin to enums in C.  I want to be able to compare for equality and inclusion
> in the set.
>
> I've tried using classes & subclasses:
>
> class state(object):
>   class _base(object):
>       def __repr__(self):
>           return '<%s>' % self.__class__
>
>   class up(_base):
>       pass
>
>   class down(_base):
>       pass
>
>   class turned_around(_base):
>       pass
>
> # containment
> isinstance(x, state._base)
>
> # equality
> x == state.up
>
> And I've tried using specific instances:
>
> class state(object):
>   class _base(object):
>      def __init__(self, name):
>           assert isinstance(name, string)
>           self.name = name
>
>       def __repr__(self):
>           return '<%s: %s>' % (self.__class__, self.name)
>
>   up = state('up')
>   down = state('down')
>   turned_around = state('turned_around')
>
> # containment
> isinstance(x, state._base)
>
> # equality
> x == state.up
>
> but neither seems particularly terse, clean, or elegant.  Simple string
> constants and lists are neither opaque nor typed in the sense that to test
> for equality, I'd need to first test for type, (ie, set inclusion), then
> test for equality.
>
> states = ['up', 'down', 'turned_around']
>
> # containment
> x in states
>
> # equality
> x in states and x == 'up'
>
> This is also disappointing because it's impossible to distinguish between
> two different sets of constants.  Eg, I can't distinguish my.up from your.up
> if I'm just using 'up'.
>
> What are other people using?
>
> --rich
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Nov 27 00:42:21 2009
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 15:42:21 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [ANN] December 2 talk at UC Berkeley: Nipype - A
	Python framework for neuroimaging
Message-ID: <db6b5ecc0911261542m4836dc81jb3d4687c7a9ffe57@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Next week's py4science at UC Berkeley presentation will be by Chris
Burns (details below); the wiki page and calendar have been updated
with the details for reference.

When: December 2, 2pm
Where: Evans Hall, 508-20
Py4Science at UC Berkeley: https://cirl.berkeley.edu/view/Py4Science


Title: Nipype - A Python framework for neuroimaging
By Christopher Burns, UC Berkeley Neuroscience.

Nipype is a project under the umbrella of Nipy, an effort to develop
open-source, community-developed neuroimaging tools in Python.  The
goals of Nipype are two-fold, first to provide a uniform interface to
existing neuroimaging software packages, and second to provide a
pipeline structure to easily tie together the processing and
statistical algorithms used for analyzing neuroimaging data.  The
interface component provides access to commandline, matlab mediated,
and pure-python based algorithms from packages such as FSL, SPM, AFNI
and Freesurfer.  The pipeline environment allows one to interchange
processing steps between different packages and iterate over a set of
parameters, along with providing automated provenance tracking.  By
exposing a consistent interface to the external packages, researchers
are able to explore the wide range of imaging algorithms and configure
their own analysis pipeline which best fits their data and research
objectives, and maintain their pipeline in a structured environment. I
will explain the software architecture and challenges in interfacing
the external packages, and demonstrate the flexibility of nipype in
performing an analysis.

From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Fri Nov 27 09:43:15 2009
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 00:43:15 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [Training] 1 day special on Develop & Deploy: Django
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0911270043n1732a16fo1306fdd3e992e730@mail.gmail.com>

Holding a 1 day sale on Develop & Deploy: Django - save nearly $500 .

The course is 5 days long - full-time on site and local.

http://c2etraining100201.eventbrite.com/

Don't need the training yourself? Please pass on the information to friends
and/or associates who might be interested.

Thank you :-)

Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving!

Best Regards,
Donna 'SnowWrite' Snow
Office Manager, Hacker Dojo

Owner, C2E Training
illuminating your path to Open Source
c2etraining.com
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From mikeyp at snaplogic.com  Sun Nov 29 00:22:52 2009
From: mikeyp at snaplogic.com (Michael Pittaro)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 15:22:52 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] SnapLogic SnapStore Developers Open House
Message-ID: <4B11B0CC.8020302@snaplogic.com>

SnapLogic will be hosting a SnapStore Developers Open House on
Saturday, December 5th between Noon and 5pm in the San Mateo area.

Since the core SnapLogic server and extensions are written
in Python, I thought some BayPiggies members might be interested.

We recently announced a Beta program for our SnapStore.  SnapStore
allows developers who extend the core functionality and connectivity
of SnapLogic to sell their Snaps via the SnapStore.  More information
on the SnapStore can be found here:

 - http://www.snaplogic.com/snapstore
 - http://blogs.zdnet.com/Foremski/?p=935
 - http://www.snaplogic.com/news/snaplogic-transforms-data-integration-with-snapstore/

During the open house, you will join other developers/consultants
in learning more about the tools and resources required to build
Snaps (components, application extensions, etc.) to be sold on
SnapStore.  For your efforts, you will receive 70% of the revenue
for the sale of your "Snap", while SnapLogic retains 30% of the
revenue for our quality assurance efforts, listing services, and
money-back guarantee to our customers.  Again, more information
(including our FAQ) can be found at www.snaplogic.com/snapstore.

So far, registered attendees for the event have interest in developing
Snaps in the following areas:

    * QuickBooks/Intuit
    * Box.net
    * Social Media Applications
    * Google Applications
    * JD Edwards
    * Workday
    * Magento
    * SugarCRM
    * SAP

If you're interested, you can contact me directly, or sign up for
the Beta program at http://www.snaplogic.com/snapstore and we will
follow up with you next week with details on our event.

We look forward to hearing from you!

Mike
-- 
Mike Pittaro
Co-Founder                      Snaplogic, Inc.
mikeyp at snaplogic.com            http://www.snaplogic.com
SnapLogic was named a Cool Vendor in Data Integration for 2009
http://tinyurl.com/snaplogic-is-cool


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Nov 30 17:14:29 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 08:14:29 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] PyCon 2010 registration open!  (Early-bird Jan 6)
Message-ID: <20091130161429.GA9650@panix.com>

PyCon 2010 registration has opened!  Register by January 6 for the best
rates!

http://us.pycon.org/2010/registration/

Registering early gets you early-bird registration rates, guarantees you
the tutorials you want, and helps the PyCon volunteers plan better.

Scheduled talk and tutorial lists:
http://us.pycon.org/2010/conference/talks/
http://us.pycon.org/2010/tutorials/

We'll see you in Atlanta!  Spread the word!
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
to post the wrong information.