From ken at seehart.com  Mon Oct  1 04:05:27 2007
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 19:05:27 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Zope plone recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0709281301p59191f89kf5bdedbd8926ec9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46FD273F.90202@wingware.com>
	<46FD3156.5000102@wingware.com>	<c41f67b90709281220r7a3a50aes8ed93631d3559b96@mail.gmail.com>
	<8249c4ac0709281301p59191f89kf5bdedbd8926ec9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <470055E7.40100@seehart.com>

Can anyone recommend a good low-cost zope/plone host?

Thanks,
- Ken Seehart


From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 04:24:25 2007
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 19:24:25 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Zope plone recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <470055E7.40100@seehart.com>
References: <46FD273F.90202@wingware.com> <46FD3156.5000102@wingware.com>
	<c41f67b90709281220r7a3a50aes8ed93631d3559b96@mail.gmail.com>
	<8249c4ac0709281301p59191f89kf5bdedbd8926ec9@mail.gmail.com>
	<470055E7.40100@seehart.com>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0709301924k423e24f8uc5dacb1eca302b97@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

We host..but we aren't low cost :-) (we provide hosting with an entire
package including hand-holding.. so we aren't the cheapest on the
block). Our rates start at $149.00 a month and we provide groupware
with email and 2 hours of support... (aka.. call me to ask questions
or get help figuring stuff out in Plone)

So for recommendations for low-cost.. try webfaction.com (the new
baypiggies plone site is hosted there) or Six Feet Up
(http://www.sixfeetup.com).
I heard that grokthis.net is pretty good.

Also give plone.net a try.. they have a list of hosting providers..
http://plone.net/hosting-providers

Donna M. Snow






On 9/30/07, Ken Seehart <ken at seehart.com> wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a good low-cost zope/plone host?
>
> Thanks,
> - Ken Seehart
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From jjinux at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 10:16:54 2007
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 01:16:54 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Zope plone recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <baf0d46b0709301924k423e24f8uc5dacb1eca302b97@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46FD273F.90202@wingware.com> <46FD3156.5000102@wingware.com>
	<c41f67b90709281220r7a3a50aes8ed93631d3559b96@mail.gmail.com>
	<8249c4ac0709281301p59191f89kf5bdedbd8926ec9@mail.gmail.com>
	<470055E7.40100@seehart.com>
	<baf0d46b0709301924k423e24f8uc5dacb1eca302b97@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90710010116q742ee48dh180a5b2cc444046d@mail.gmail.com>

I've been happy with webfaction.com.  I use Plone for my church's Web site.

-jj

On 9/30/07, Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We host..but we aren't low cost :-) (we provide hosting with an entire
> package including hand-holding.. so we aren't the cheapest on the
> block). Our rates start at $149.00 a month and we provide groupware
> with email and 2 hours of support... (aka.. call me to ask questions
> or get help figuring stuff out in Plone)
>
> So for recommendations for low-cost.. try webfaction.com (the new
> baypiggies plone site is hosted there) or Six Feet Up
> (http://www.sixfeetup.com).
> I heard that grokthis.net is pretty good.
>
> Also give plone.net a try.. they have a list of hosting providers..
> http://plone.net/hosting-providers
>
> Donna M. Snow
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 9/30/07, Ken Seehart <ken at seehart.com> wrote:
> > Can anyone recommend a good low-cost zope/plone host?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > - Ken Seehart
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


-- 
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From jjinux at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 07:22:19 2007
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 22:22:19 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Class for Novices
In-Reply-To: <470196c4.180e240a.4019.011bSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
References: <470196c4.180e240a.4019.011bSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90710012222r71ddb904r25e00c65442feb51@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com>
Date: Oct 1, 2007 5:54 PM

I'm excited to announce a new Python class for beginners at UCSC Extension:

http://www.ucsc-extension.edu/ucsc/search/publicCourseSearchDetails.do?method=load&courseId=3576274

It will be a weekend of programming, starting from scratch and taking
the time to understand the basic mechanisms of software engineering:
operators, flow-of-control, functions, modules/namespaces and
importing. We'll study a few of the  properties of lists and strings,
and, time permitting, we'll touch on classes as blueprints for
namespaces.

The class is intended to give a novice the maximum programming power
with the minimum effort.  Hopefully, this taste of programming will
whet the student's appetite for more.

Self-motivated, reasonably-well-behaved high school students are
encouraged to attend.

Also, the class is designed to meet the prerequisite for the "Python
For Programmer's" class:

http://www.ucsc-extension.edu/ucsc/search/publicCourseSearchDetails.do?method=load&courseId=1531625

which is essentially the same class that I teach in corporate
environments, including Google.

Please send me students!

Marilyn Davis, Ph.D.
650 965-7121
marilyn at deliberate.com

From whitaker at google.com  Tue Oct  2 07:42:07 2007
From: whitaker at google.com (Russell Whitaker)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 01:42:07 -0400
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Class for Novices
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90710012222r71ddb904r25e00c65442feb51@mail.gmail.com>
References: <470196c4.180e240a.4019.011bSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
	<c41f67b90710012222r71ddb904r25e00c65442feb51@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <997a56990710012242o18a89ac3jab5103dd9d467644@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all, apologies for the long radio silence: I've moved to New York City for
work (internal transfer at Google) and school (pre-med at Columbia).  I've
been quiet on most of the lists of which I'm a member.  However, I felt like I
should take a minute and add a very hearty endorsement of Marilyn Davis.

A little less than a year ago, I brought Dr. Davis onto Google's Mountain View
campus in order that she might teach an intensive pilot course in
Python programming,
the second one she mentions below.  The pilot was successful, and we
retained her to
teach more of these.  Her training was effective and made a dramatic,
demonstrable
impact in the work of a number of my colleagues.

I'm very happy to see that she's developed a curriculum to fill the gap between
that course - intended for those with some grounding in the practice of
programming - and the complete (but motivated) novice.  I look forward to
hearing feedback from students who take the preparatory course, and I
personally endorse her efforts.

Congratulations on putting this together, Marilyn!

Cheers,
Russell

On 10/2/07, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com>
> Date: Oct 1, 2007 5:54 PM
>
> I'm excited to announce a new Python class for beginners at UCSC Extension:
>
> http://www.ucsc-extension.edu/ucsc/search/publicCourseSearchDetails.do?method=load&courseId=3576274
>
> It will be a weekend of programming, starting from scratch and taking
> the time to understand the basic mechanisms of software engineering:
> operators, flow-of-control, functions, modules/namespaces and
> importing. We'll study a few of the  properties of lists and strings,
> and, time permitting, we'll touch on classes as blueprints for
> namespaces.
>
> The class is intended to give a novice the maximum programming power
> with the minimum effort.  Hopefully, this taste of programming will
> whet the student's appetite for more.
>
> Self-motivated, reasonably-well-behaved high school students are
> encouraged to attend.
>
> Also, the class is designed to meet the prerequisite for the "Python
> For Programmer's" class:
>
> http://www.ucsc-extension.edu/ucsc/search/publicCourseSearchDetails.do?method=load&courseId=1531625
>
> which is essentially the same class that I teach in corporate
> environments, including Google.
>
> Please send me students!
>
> Marilyn Davis, Ph.D.
> 650 965-7121
> marilyn at deliberate.com
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


-- 
Russell Whitaker
Software Engineer, NYC Operations
Google Inc.

From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 08:01:22 2007
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 23:01:22 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Class for Novices
In-Reply-To: <997a56990710012242o18a89ac3jab5103dd9d467644@mail.gmail.com>
References: <470196c4.180e240a.4019.011bSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
	<c41f67b90710012222r71ddb904r25e00c65442feb51@mail.gmail.com>
	<997a56990710012242o18a89ac3jab5103dd9d467644@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0710012301g72f46e98g948cd00856418b16@mail.gmail.com>

I hope Marilyn offers this again.. I'd really like to take it but we
are bogged down with Plone work and I can't take the time away this
month ;-(  (even a weekend)

darn.. this would have been perfect for me.. because I just happen to
be a python noob.. and have been trying to learn via books/online.. I
probably need an in class setting..

Donna M. Snow

On 10/1/07, Russell Whitaker <whitaker at google.com> wrote:
> Hi all, apologies for the long radio silence: I've moved to New York City for
> work (internal transfer at Google) and school (pre-med at Columbia).  I've
> been quiet on most of the lists of which I'm a member.  However, I felt like I
> should take a minute and add a very hearty endorsement of Marilyn Davis.
>
> A little less than a year ago, I brought Dr. Davis onto Google's Mountain View
> campus in order that she might teach an intensive pilot course in
> Python programming,
> the second one she mentions below.  The pilot was successful, and we
> retained her to
> teach more of these.  Her training was effective and made a dramatic,
> demonstrable
> impact in the work of a number of my colleagues.
>
> I'm very happy to see that she's developed a curriculum to fill the gap between
> that course - intended for those with some grounding in the practice of
> programming - and the complete (but motivated) novice.  I look forward to
> hearing feedback from students who take the preparatory course, and I
> personally endorse her efforts.
>
> Congratulations on putting this together, Marilyn!
>
> Cheers,
> Russell
>
> On 10/2/07, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com>
> > Date: Oct 1, 2007 5:54 PM
> >
> > I'm excited to announce a new Python class for beginners at UCSC Extension:
> >
> > http://www.ucsc-extension.edu/ucsc/search/publicCourseSearchDetails.do?method=load&courseId=3576274
> >
> > It will be a weekend of programming, starting from scratch and taking
> > the time to understand the basic mechanisms of software engineering:
> > operators, flow-of-control, functions, modules/namespaces and
> > importing. We'll study a few of the  properties of lists and strings,
> > and, time permitting, we'll touch on classes as blueprints for
> > namespaces.
> >
> > The class is intended to give a novice the maximum programming power
> > with the minimum effort.  Hopefully, this taste of programming will
> > whet the student's appetite for more.
> >
> > Self-motivated, reasonably-well-behaved high school students are
> > encouraged to attend.
> >
> > Also, the class is designed to meet the prerequisite for the "Python
> > For Programmer's" class:
> >
> > http://www.ucsc-extension.edu/ucsc/search/publicCourseSearchDetails.do?method=load&courseId=1531625
> >
> > which is essentially the same class that I teach in corporate
> > environments, including Google.
> >
> > Please send me students!
> >
> > Marilyn Davis, Ph.D.
> > 650 965-7121
> > marilyn at deliberate.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
>
>
> --
> Russell Whitaker
> Software Engineer, NYC Operations
> Google Inc.
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From millman at berkeley.edu  Wed Oct  3 01:05:45 2007
From: millman at berkeley.edu (Jarrod Millman)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:05:45 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: Scientific Programmer Position at UC Berkeley
In-Reply-To: <1986C867-66BF-41AC-B1AC-AB7EB88C5563@berkeley.edu>
References: <8098257D-E870-40FF-8981-DFD7F7295C67@berkeley.edu>
	<1986C867-66BF-41AC-B1AC-AB7EB88C5563@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <c7009a550710021605yecc3494vef9bf06854619d8d@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

This position will involve a fairly heavy amount of Python
programming.  Feel free to contact either Fritz or myself if you have
any questions.

Thanks,
Jarrod

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Fritz Sommer <fsommer at berkeley.edu>
Date: Oct 2, 2007 4:04 PM
Subject: Fwd: Scientific Programmer Position at UC Berkeley
To: Jarrod Millman <millman at berkeley.edu>



SCIENTIFIC PROGRAMMER POSITION

The Sommer lab at UC Berkeley seeks a scientific programmer to assume
an integral role in the design and maintenance of the Core Services
of the new NSF-Initiative Data-Sharing in Neuroscience, hosted at the
Redwood Center for Theoretical Neuroscience and the Helen Wills
Neuroscience Institute. Specifically, work involves the design and
administration of the data repository and website used for this
initiative. This includes the integration and design of these
resources, the development and documentation of tools for data
sharing, maintaining a data server, design and maintenance of a
website, as well as support and interaction with data contributors.

Qualifications:
*Interest in Neuroscience
*Expertise in Python, Matlab, XML and HTML
*Experience with content management systems (PLONE) and version
control (CVS or SVN)
*Experience with binary data formats and hierarchical data formats
(HDF5)
*Familiarity with different unix-like platforms (Linux and Mac OS X).
*Strong problem-solving abilities

Salary and start date
The monthly salary range is $3987 - $7318, although most offers will
not exceed midpoint of the salary range.
Open: immediately, with preferred start date 15 Oct 2007 or earlier.
Minimum one year commitment preferred.

How to apply
U.C. Berkeley has an online applicant website. Visit:
http://jobs.berkeley.edu/ and search for job #007217.
If you have any questions, please contact Fritz Sommer:
fsommer at berkeley.edu

------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Friedrich T. Sommer, Ph.D., Associate Adjunct Professor
University of California, Berkeley
Redwood Center for Theoretical Neuroscience & HWNI
3210F Tolman Hall MC 3192
Berkeley, CA 94720
phone (510) 642-7251
fax (510) 642-7206
http://redwood.berkeley.edu/wiki/Fritz_Sommer




-- 
Jarrod Millman
Computational Infrastructure for Research Labs
10 Giannini Hall, UC Berkeley
phone: 510.643.4014
http://cirl.berkeley.edu/

From wescpy at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 09:41:57 2007
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 00:41:57 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Class for Novices
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90710012222r71ddb904r25e00c65442feb51@mail.gmail.com>
References: <470196c4.180e240a.4019.011bSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
	<c41f67b90710012222r71ddb904r25e00c65442feb51@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78b3a9580710030041r3b001c20yd6532591471219d9@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/1/07, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com>
> Date: Oct 1, 2007 5:54 PM
>
> I'm excited to announce a new Python class for beginners at UCSC Extension:
>
> http://www.ucsc-extension.edu/ucsc/search/publicCourseSearchDetails.do?method=load&courseId=3576274


wow, the 1st python class ever to be offered to the public for new
programmers!  good luck marilyn!

for those of you with a bit more experience that need to get
up-to-speed with Python ASAP, i wanted to let y'all know that we have
3 more spots left in our comprehensive intro course coming up this
coming mon-wed 10/8-10, 9a-5p up near SFO. this is the last 3-day
course we're offering this year. we also have plenty of room in our
Internet Programming course next sat 10/13 too. checkout our website
below and/or pls contact me off-list for more details.

cheers,
-wesley
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001
    http://corepython.com

wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
python training and technical consulting
cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
http://cyberwebconsulting.com

From ken at seehart.com  Fri Oct  5 00:09:39 2007
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:09:39 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Nested plone sites?
In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580710030041r3b001c20yd6532591471219d9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <470196c4.180e240a.4019.011bSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>	<c41f67b90710012222r71ddb904r25e00c65442feb51@mail.gmail.com>
	<78b3a9580710030041r3b001c20yd6532591471219d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <470564A3.2090907@seehart.com>

I heard somewhere that nested plone sites was a bad idea.  I'm wondering 
what the issues are.

Say I have a personal plone site at www.seehart.com with my own stuff in 
it.  I also have a plone site hosted elsewhere that is already being 
used.  I want to move that other plone site to www.seehart.com/foobar.  
The reason that I am tempted to make www.seehart.com/foobar a separate 
nested plone site is that the content of www.seehart.com/foobar has 
absolutely nothing to do with www.seehart.com, has a different set of 
users, and there is some possibility that I may want to move it again in 
the future independently of www.seehart.com.

Perhaps a cleaner approach would be to make www.seehart.com a Zope site, 
and make a plone site www.seehart.com/mystuff but I don't like the url 
arrangement as much that way.

Another possibility would be to set it up like this:
http://seehart.webfactional.com/seehart.com - plone site
http://seehart.webfactional.com/foobar - plone site

Then have it linked up like this:

www.seehart.com/foobar => http://seehart.webfactional.com/foobar
www.seehart.com => http://seehart.webfactional.com/seehart.com

Would that work better?  Am I confused?

Thoughts?

 - Ken Seehart






From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 00:28:55 2007
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 15:28:55 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Nested plone sites?
In-Reply-To: <470564A3.2090907@seehart.com>
References: <470196c4.180e240a.4019.011bSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
	<c41f67b90710012222r71ddb904r25e00c65442feb51@mail.gmail.com>
	<78b3a9580710030041r3b001c20yd6532591471219d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<470564A3.2090907@seehart.com>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0710041528x34d5f86dx4b88ef1d5758b1b6@mail.gmail.com>

OH no.. no nesty Plone sites (thought there is a product called
SubPlone.. which works with pre-3.0 sites)..

Side by side Plone sites are fine (and which version are you working
with Ken? 3.0?)
You can add as many Plone sites as you want in a Zope instance (just
keep in mind performance will get worse and worse with each one you
add) But you add them on the same level.. not inside each other..

Acquisition becomes a major issue.. when you nest Plone sites

It makes more sense to create a separate site for the two and then
point to each site through DNS

Also.. btw.. take a look at grok.net (still being worked on put
looking pretty darned good!) for those who like Zope but don't love
Plone..

We may start implementing Grok sites in the future because we really
like the way it's developing.

Best Regards,
Donna M. Snow, Principal
C Squared Enterprises
illuminating your path to Open Source
http://www.csquaredtech.com
imagination | innovation | brilliance
Business 408.385.1812
Fax 408.649.5543





On 10/4/07, Ken Seehart <ken at seehart.com> wrote:
> I heard somewhere that nested plone sites was a bad idea.  I'm wondering
> what the issues are.
>
> Say I have a personal plone site at www.seehart.com with my own stuff in
> it.  I also have a plone site hosted elsewhere that is already being
> used.  I want to move that other plone site to www.seehart.com/foobar.
> The reason that I am tempted to make www.seehart.com/foobar a separate
> nested plone site is that the content of www.seehart.com/foobar has
> absolutely nothing to do with www.seehart.com, has a different set of
> users, and there is some possibility that I may want to move it again in
> the future independently of www.seehart.com.
>
> Perhaps a cleaner approach would be to make www.seehart.com a Zope site,
> and make a plone site www.seehart.com/mystuff but I don't like the url
> arrangement as much that way.
>
> Another possibility would be to set it up like this:
> http://seehart.webfactional.com/seehart.com - plone site
> http://seehart.webfactional.com/foobar - plone site
>
> Then have it linked up like this:
>
> www.seehart.com/foobar => http://seehart.webfactional.com/foobar
> www.seehart.com => http://seehart.webfactional.com/seehart.com
>
> Would that work better?  Am I confused?
>
> Thoughts?
>
>  - Ken Seehart
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From DennisR at dair.com  Fri Oct  5 00:55:12 2007
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:55:12 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Nested plone sites?
In-Reply-To: <470564A3.2090907@seehart.com>
References: <78b3a9580710030041r3b001c20yd6532591471219d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<470196c4.180e240a.4019.011bSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
	<c41f67b90710012222r71ddb904r25e00c65442feb51@mail.gmail.com>
	<78b3a9580710030041r3b001c20yd6532591471219d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20071004152937.00bf8538@localhost>

At 03:09 PM 10/4/2007, Ken Seehart wrote:

>www.seehart.com/foobar => http://seehart.webfactional.com/foobar
>www.seehart.com => http://seehart.webfactional.com/seehart.com

wow!  There are three technologies at work here: (1) host file system, (2) 
DNS, and (3) Plone/Zope/CMS.

Let's start at (1).  Your web files in an ISP account are generally under 
some top level directory such as htdocs, public_html, or some other such 
directory.

It is good practice to then place separate websites under this:

         htdocs/seehart/
         htdocs/foobar

These are then assigned to URLs via DNS.  If you do not have separate 
domain names, then you yes, would have to access the sites as

>         http://seehart.webfactional.com/seehart
         http://seehart.webfactional.com/foobar

Your second URL example above is valid but likely does not parse the way 
you think it does.  seehart.com is a subdirectory somewhere in the 
webfactinal file structure.

Doing it this way, you are tied to webfactional.com and cannot move to 
another domain.  That is why good practice is to have separate domain names.

I know approximately nothing about Plone but nested domains are generally a 
bad idea.  Suppose, your directory structure is

         htdocs/seehart/
         htdocs/seehart/foobar

You can surely assign separate domain names via DNS. What is the 
problem?  The problem is that any access to the foobar subdirectory from 
the seehart site will be satisfied by something which is not part of the 
seehart site.  If/when foobar is split off you will have broken urls.

Even with peer domains, a url using ".." to navigate up the directory tree 
and then back down to the other site directory has a chance of succeeding, 
depending on site hardening.  This used to be a common attack but I have 
not seen it in my logs lately.  My public Apache server blocks this while 
my local (only) IIS server allows it.

Regards, Dennis
  ---------------------------------
| Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
| Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
  ---------------------------------


From ken at seehart.com  Fri Oct  5 12:20:29 2007
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 03:20:29 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Nested plone sites?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20071004152937.00bf8538@localhost>
References: <78b3a9580710030041r3b001c20yd6532591471219d9@mail.gmail.com>	<470196c4.180e240a.4019.011bSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>	<c41f67b90710012222r71ddb904r25e00c65442feb51@mail.gmail.com>	<78b3a9580710030041r3b001c20yd6532591471219d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20071004152937.00bf8538@localhost>
Message-ID: <47060FED.6050506@seehart.com>

Dennis Reinhardt wrote:
> At 03:09 PM 10/4/2007, Ken Seehart wrote:
>
>   
>> www.seehart.com/foobar => http://seehart.webfactional.com/foobar
>> www.seehart.com => http://seehart.webfactional.com/seehart.com
>>     
>
> wow!  There are three technologies at work here: (1) host file system, (2) 
> DNS, and (3) Plone/Zope/CMS.
>
> Let's start at (1).  Your web files in an ISP account are generally under 
> some top level directory such as htdocs, public_html, or some other such 
> directory.
>
> It is good practice to then place separate websites under this:
>
>          htdocs/seehart/
>          htdocs/foobar
>
> These are then assigned to URLs via DNS.  If you do not have separate 
> domain names, then you yes, would have to access the sites as
>
>   
>>         http://seehart.webfactional.com/seehart
>>     
>          http://seehart.webfactional.com/foobar
>
>   
Actually I do have several domain names.    
http://seehart.webfactional.com/ is just the url given to me by my ISP.
> Your second URL example above is valid but likely does not parse the way 
> you think it does.  seehart.com is a subdirectory somewhere in the 
> webfactinal file structure.
>
> Doing it this way, you are tied to webfactional.com and cannot move to 
> another domain.  That is why good practice is to have separate domain names.
>   
End users will not use urls based on http://seehart.webfactional.com.  
That's just for me to operate on when developing the sites.  End users 
will use my various domains such as www.seehart.com, which I currently 
have hosted at Interlix.  These urls will survive this and any future 
host transitions.
> I know approximately nothing about Plone but nested domains are generally a 
> bad idea.  Suppose, your directory structure is
>
>          htdocs/seehart/
>          htdocs/seehart/foobar
>
> You can surely assign separate domain names via DNS. What is the 
> problem?  The problem is that any access to the foobar subdirectory from 
> the seehart site will be satisfied by something which is not part of the 
> seehart site.  If/when foobar is split off you will have broken urls.
>
> Even with peer domains, a url using ".." to navigate up the directory tree 
> and then back down to the other site directory has a chance of succeeding, 
> depending on site hardening.  This used to be a common attack but I have 
> not seen it in my logs lately.  My public Apache server blocks this while 
> my local (only) IIS server allows it.
>
> Regards, Dennis
>   ---------------------------------
> | Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
> | Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
>   ---------------------------------
>
>   
I think we are talking about completely different things :-)  In my 
case, these are Zope folders, not filesystem directories.  So allow me 
to clarify....

The Zope root folder is automatically assigned to 
http://seehart.webfactional.com which I will only use for administrative 
purposes.

I plan to have everything under this one Zope instance, so the details 
of the filesystem don't affect this.  People accessing my site will not 
use the http://seehart.webfactional.com/... url at all, but rather will 
use urls such as http://www.seehart.com which will be assigned to 
http://seehart.webfactional.com/seehart.com, and http://www.gameofy.com 
which will be assigned to http://seehart.webfactional.com/gameofy.com 
(these are currently being hosted at Interlix until I finish moving them).

So the three technologies that affect the urls are:
*DNS:* (makes *seehart.com* and *gameofy.com* et. al. show up at one of 
webfaction's IP)
*URL *Rewrite rules: (which equates *http://gameofy.com* with 
*http://seehart.webfactional.com/gameofy.com*)
*Zope:* Implements the tree starting at 
*http://seehart.webfactional.com* independent of the filesystem.

That ".." hack is interesting.  I tried it and it worked!  The ".." 
turns out not to be necessary due to acquisition, so for example, 
www.gameofy.com/samplemove.com goes to www.samplemove.com.  Not exactly 
desirable, but it seems harmless in all of my cases that I can think of 
(Zope and Plone security measures apply independent of the original 
url).  The issues of broken links and security problems are separate 
from each other in the sense that security problems are abused 
intensionally, whereas broken links are generally unintentional.  I 
don't see how people would acquire such messed up links by accident (the 
users of each respective domain are not aware of the other domains, and 
nothing would generate the messed up links that I can think of), so I 
don't see a problem here.


Donna M. Snow wrote:

> OH no.. no nesty Plone sites (thought there is a product called
> SubPlone.. which works with pre-3.0 sites)..
>
> Side by side Plone sites are fine (and which version are you working
> with Ken? 3.0?)
>   
Yes it will be Plone 3.0.1   I am at Plone 2.0.4 at my current host 
(which is going out of business at the end of the year).  I will 
probably have questions about migration soon, but I want to take a crack 
at it myself first.
> You can add as many Plone sites as you want in a Zope instance (just
> keep in mind performance will get worse and worse with each one you
> add) But you add them on the same level.. not inside each other..
>
> Acquisition becomes a major issue.. when you nest Plone sites
>
> It makes more sense to create a separate site for the two and then
> point to each site through DNS
>
> Also.. btw.. take a look at grok.net (still being worked on put
> looking pretty darned good!) for those who like Zope but don't love
> Plone..
>   
Already going with WebFaction.  Besides, I love Plone now :-)
> We may start implementing Grok sites in the future because we really
> like the way it's developing.
>
> Best Regards,
> Donna M. Snow, Principal
> C Squared Enterprises
> illuminating your path to Open Source
> http://www.csquaredtech.com
> imagination | innovation | brilliance
> Business 408.385.1812
> Fax 408.649.5543
>   

Acquisition takes place after the rewrite rule is applied, so Donna's 
answer suffices.  I can set up all the plone objects inside the top 
level folder (*http://seehart.webfactional.com)*, not nested, and apply 
rewrite rules to make the urls do what I want.  Better yet, I think 
maybe I will just make www.seehart.com a Zope site instead of a Plone 
site (there being obviously nothing wrong with "nesting" a Plone site in 
a Zope folder :-) ).  That makes the whole problem go away.  But it's 
nice to know how to do it anyway.

For educational purposes, I think the solution to my original question 
would be this: *www.seehart.com/foobar* would be a plone site sitting 
right next to the *www.seehart.com* plone site, but not be nested (they 
would only /appear /to be nested).

Thanks for your answers, they were helpful.

- Ken Seehart


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From ken at seehart.com  Fri Oct  5 16:00:21 2007
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 07:00:21 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Zope: Upload from local machine
In-Reply-To: <baf0d46b0710041528x34d5f86dx4b88ef1d5758b1b6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <470196c4.180e240a.4019.011bSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>	
	<c41f67b90710012222r71ddb904r25e00c65442feb51@mail.gmail.com>	
	<78b3a9580710030041r3b001c20yd6532591471219d9@mail.gmail.com>	
	<470564A3.2090907@seehart.com>
	<baf0d46b0710041528x34d5f86dx4b88ef1d5758b1b6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47064375.3020506@seehart.com>


Just curious: Why doesn't the Zope import feature have an *Upload from 
local machine*?  It seems like a natural inverse of *Download to local 
machine*, and it would save the annoying extra step of uploading to the 
import directory.

    You can export Zope objects to a file in order to transfer them to a
    different Zope installation. You can either choose to download the
    export file to your local machine, or save it in the "var" directory
    of your Zope installation on the server.

    Export object id
    	
    Export to
    	
    Download to local machine
    Save to file on server
      	
    XML format?

    	

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You may import Zope objects which have been previously exported to a
    file, by placing the file in the "import" directory of your Zope
    installation on the server. You should create the "import" directory
    in the root of your Zope installation if it does not yet exist.

    Note that by default, you will become the owner of the objects that
    you are importing. If you wish the imported objects to retain their
    existing ownership information, select "retain existing ownership
    information".

    Import file name
    	
    Ownership
    	
    Take ownership of imported objects
    Retain existing ownership information


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From cbc at unc.edu  Fri Oct  5 16:20:58 2007
From: cbc at unc.edu (Chris Calloway)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 16:20:58 +0200
Subject: [Baypiggies] Nested plone sites?
In-Reply-To: <baf0d46b0710041528x34d5f86dx4b88ef1d5758b1b6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <470196c4.180e240a.4019.011bSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
	<c41f67b90710012222r71ddb904r25e00c65442feb51@mail.gmail.com>
	<78b3a9580710030041r3b001c20yd6532591471219d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<470564A3.2090907@seehart.com>
	<baf0d46b0710041528x34d5f86dx4b88ef1d5758b1b6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7C10C06D-C8BE-4E4D-ABE0-9EACC1D09B37@unc.edu>

On Oct 5, 2007, at 12:28 AM, Donna Snow wrote:
> Acquisition becomes a major issue.. when you nest Plone sites

Nobody expects the Spammish Acquisition!

--
Sincerely,

Chris Calloway
http://www.seacoos.org
office: 332 Chapman Hall cell: (919) 599-3530
mail: Campus Box #3300, UNC-CH, Chapel Hill, NC 27599


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From cbc at unc.edu  Fri Oct  5 16:46:14 2007
From: cbc at unc.edu (Chris Calloway)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 16:46:14 +0200
Subject: [Baypiggies] Zope: Upload from local machine
In-Reply-To: <47064375.3020506@seehart.com>
References: <470196c4.180e240a.4019.011bSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>	
	<c41f67b90710012222r71ddb904r25e00c65442feb51@mail.gmail.com>	
	<78b3a9580710030041r3b001c20yd6532591471219d9@mail.gmail.com>	
	<470564A3.2090907@seehart.com>
	<baf0d46b0710041528x34d5f86dx4b88ef1d5758b1b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<47064375.3020506@seehart.com>
Message-ID: <EDE96265-E988-426A-9BFC-B13E23F95496@unc.edu>

On Oct 5, 2007, at 4:00 PM, Ken Seehart wrote:
> Just curious: Why doesn't the Zope import feature have an Upload  
> from local machine?  It seems like a natural inverse of Download to  
> local machine, and it would save the annoying extra step of  
> uploading to the import directory.

Demonstrating write permissions to the import directory on the server  
filesystem is a security feature. It has to do with separating what  
permissions systems administrators have and what permissions site  
administrators have. Annoying, yes. But at the end of the day, it's  
the right answer.

--
Sincerely,

Chris Calloway
http://www.seacoos.org
office: 332 Chapman Hall cell: (919) 599-3530
mail: Campus Box #3300, UNC-CH, Chapel Hill, NC 27599


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From groovypuppy at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  6 01:16:58 2007
From: groovypuppy at yahoo.com (Meher Gourjian)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 16:16:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python / Django freelance work
Message-ID: <908848.76152.qm@web52509.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hello,

Please contact me directly so we can take the
discussion offline.  I don't want to clutter up the
mailing list.  We are looking for an experienced
Bay-area Python developer to help us get off the
ground.  We are a small game development company
specializing in multiplayer Flash based games.  We are
trying to build a high performance multiplayer server
capable of handling at least 128 simultaneous players
for real-time action oriented games. Experience in
setting up a Django / Apache / MySQL / Python based
server would be a plus.  Socket programming or Flash
remoting / AMF based programming experience would be a
HUGE plus as would any experience with Stackless
Python.  We have about 4 months to build a solid
working example.  It doesn't have to be polished but
it does need to work.  We will handle all client side
programming needs with Actionscript 3.0 and Flex. 
Hope this interests you.

Thanks,

Meher Gourjian
Plugworks, Inc.
Oakland, CA


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469

From ken at seehart.com  Sat Oct  6 23:51:50 2007
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 14:51:50 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Plone migration
Message-ID: <47080376.90604@seehart.com>


I am trying to migrate a plone instance from 2.0.4 to 3.0.1.  Since the 
migration tool does not allow this to be done in one step, I have to 
migrate to an in-between version of plone, and then migrate to 3.0.1.

I chose 2.1.2 for no particular reason (anything 2.1.x or 2.5.x might work).

So I installed a second zope application with plone 2.1.2 and imported 
my plone object export file.  So far so good.  It looks pretty much like 
my plone site, but some of my plone objects get this error:


      Site error

    This site encountered an error trying to fulfill your request. The
    errors were:

    Error Type
        AttributeError
    Error Value
        text
    Request made at
        2007/10/06 16:09:01.094 GMT-5

The traceback from the log file says:

    2007-10-06T16:09:00 ERROR Zope.SiteErrorLog
    http://seehart.webfactional.com/p212/pisces/index_html/document_view
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py",
    line 113, in publish
        request, bind=1)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.py",
    line 88, in mapply
        if debug is not None: return debug(object,args,context)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py",
    line 40, in call_object
        result=apply(object,args) # Type s<cr> to step into published
    object.
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/Shared/DC/Scripts/Bindings.py",
    line 311, in __call__
        return self._bindAndExec(args, kw, None)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/Shared/DC/Scripts/Bindings.py",
    line 348, in _bindAndExec
        return self._exec(bound_data, args, kw)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/Products/PageTemplates/ZopePageTemplate.py",
    line 256, in _exec
        result = self.pt_render(extra_context=bound_names)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/Products/PageTemplates/PageTemplate.py",
    line 104, in pt_render
        tal=not source, strictinsert=0)()
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 206, in __call__
        self.interpret(self.program)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 250, in interpret
        handlers[opcode](self, args)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 711, in do_useMacro
        self.interpret(macro)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 250, in interpret
        handlers[opcode](self, args)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 426, in do_optTag_tal
        self.do_optTag(stuff)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 411, in do_optTag
        return self.no_tag(start, program)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 406, in no_tag
        self.interpret(program)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 250, in interpret
        handlers[opcode](self, args)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 742, in do_defineSlot
        self.interpret(block)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 250, in interpret
        handlers[opcode](self, args)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 426, in do_optTag_tal
        self.do_optTag(stuff)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 411, in do_optTag
        return self.no_tag(start, program)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 406, in no_tag
        self.interpret(program)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 250, in interpret
        handlers[opcode](self, args)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 690, in do_defineMacro
        self.interpret(macro)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 250, in interpret
        handlers[opcode](self, args)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 734, in do_defineSlot
        self.interpret(slot)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 250, in interpret
        handlers[opcode](self, args)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 426, in do_optTag_tal
        self.do_optTag(stuff)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 411, in do_optTag
        return self.no_tag(start, program)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 406, in no_tag
        self.interpret(program)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 250, in interpret
        handlers[opcode](self, args)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 690, in do_defineMacro
        self.interpret(macro)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 250, in interpret
        handlers[opcode](self, args)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py",
    line 477, in do_setLocal_tal
        self.engine.setLocal(name, self.engine.evaluateValue(expr))
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/Products/PageTemplates/TALES.py",
    line 221, in evaluate
        return expression(self)
      File
    "/home/seehart/webapps/zope285plone212/Zope-2.8.5-final/lib/python/Products/PageTemplates/ZRPythonExpr.py",
    line 47, in __call__
        return eval(code, g, {})
      File "Python expression "len(here.text)"", line 1, in <expression>
    AttributeError: text


I figure that probably has something to do with some customizing I did 
to implement my special objects.  So I decide to go ahead and finish the 
migration to 3.0.1 first and then try to resolve this issue.

I export the plone object, and put it in the import directory for the 
main version of zope/plone (that's plone 3.0.1).  I get this in response 
to my attempt to import it:

    An error was encountered while publishing this resource.

    *Error Type: AttributeError*
    *Error Value: 'module' object has no attribute 'UIDCatalog'***

The traceback in the zope log file is:

    2007-10-06T15:58:51 ERROR Zope.SiteErrorLog
    http://seehart.webfactional.com/www/seehart.com/manage_importObject
    Traceback (innermost last):
      Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 119, in publish
      Module ZPublisher.mapply, line 88, in mapply
      Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 42, in call_object
      Module OFS.ObjectManager, line 609, in manage_importObject
      Module OFS.ObjectManager, line 626, in _importObjectFromFile
      Module ZODB.ExportImport, line 75, in importFile
      Module transaction._transaction, line 312, in savepoint
      Module transaction._transaction, line 309, in savepoint
      Module transaction._transaction, line 737, in __init__
      Module ZODB.Connection, line 1046, in savepoint
      Module ZODB.Connection, line 519, in _commit
      Module ZODB.ExportImport, line 143, in _importDuringCommit
    AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'UIDCatalog'

I have no idea what causes this.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Also, I would be willing to pay someone to get the job done (finish the 
migration and fix any defects caused by the migration).  Anyone 
interested?  I'd love to have it wrapped up this weekend if possible.

- Ken

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From jim at well.com  Sun Oct  7 16:07:15 2007
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 07:07:15 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] bayPIGgies meeting Thursday 10/9: AJAX testing with
	Windmill
Message-ID: <d1cfb223bdc454c7b7236b97383058cb@well.com>


Thursday, October 9, 2007:
The Windmill Open Source AJAX Web UI Testing Framework
by Mikeal Rogers and Adam Christian, QA Developers from the Open Source  
Applications Foundation and project leads for Windmill.


Location: Google

bayPIGgies meeting information:
http://baypiggies.net/new/plone

sign up to have google access badges ready:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings


Agenda-----------------------------

..... 7:30 PM ...........................
General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements,
any first-minute announcements.

..... 7:35 PM to 8:45 PM ................

Windmill is an open source web testing framework intended for complete  
automation of user interface testing in all browsers across all  
Operating Systems, originally written for testing the Chandler Server  
WebUI. Windmill is written in Python and Javascript and has strong test  
debugging and authoring features. It implements cross browser testing,  
in-browser recording and playback, and functionality for fast accurate  
debugging and test environment integration.

Our talk will focus on the architecture, general usage, and features  
that set it apart from other similar tools and is based on the our  
presentation at OSCON 2007. We'll cover what was in the OSCON  
presentation, but more quickly so we can dive in to the python related  
features. We will explain the workflow between the python and  
javascript ends and illustrate how some of the design choices helped us  
create a more complete and dynamic architecture.

If you would like to read the PDF of the OSCON presentation, see
http://windmill.osafoundation.org/trac/attachment/wiki/Miscellaneous/ 
OSCON2007-Windmill.pdf

To read the Windmill project home page, see
Windmill (http://windmill.osafoundation.org)

To get a summary of Windmill, see
http://windmill.osafoundation.org/trac/wiki/AboutWindmill

To get a sense of the Windmill features, see
http://windmill.osafoundation.org/trac/wiki/WindmillBook



..... 8:45 PM to 9:00 PM ................
Mapping/Random Access

Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of topics the announcers
are interested in.

Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up individually on
topics of interest.


..... The November Meeting  ................
TBD


From jim at well.com  Mon Oct  8 07:15:59 2007
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 22:15:59 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] bayPIGgies meeting Thursday 10/11: AJAX testing with
	Windmill
Message-ID: <321982ff934674daf0107816cd7ebec0@well.com>


This is a correction to the previous notice.


The October bayPIGgies meeting will be
Thursday, October 11, 2007:         <-----------------
The Windmill Open Source AJAX Web UI Testing Framework
by Mikeal Rogers and Adam Christian of OSA/Windmill

Location: Google

bayPIGgies meeting information:
http://baypiggies.net/new/plone

sign up to have google access badges ready:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings


The previous meeting notice incorrectly stated the meeting
would be Thursday, 10/9, rather than Thursday, 10/11.
apologies.


From ra at burningman.com  Tue Oct  9 01:23:27 2007
From: ra at burningman.com (Rob Miller)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:23:27 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Plone migration
In-Reply-To: <47080376.90604@seehart.com>
References: <47080376.90604@seehart.com>
Message-ID: <470ABBEF.50405@burningman.com>

Ken Seehart wrote:
> 
> I am trying to migrate a plone instance from 2.0.4 to 3.0.1.  Since the 
> migration tool does not allow this to be done in one step, I have to 
> migrate to an in-between version of plone, and then migrate to 3.0.1.

your questions are very detailed, and are very Plone-specific.  you'll 
certainly get a much better response if you ask them in a Plone-centric forum. 
  find those on http://plone.org/support, especially 
http://www.nabble.com/Plone-f6741.html and http://plone.org/support/chat.

-r


From lhawthorn at google.com  Tue Oct  9 03:14:50 2007
From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 18:14:50 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th meeting
Message-ID: <4869cee70710081814l1b8d6f4du2394ce4e1b8de38@mail.gmail.com>

Hello baypiggies,

Please take a moment to register for this Thursday's meeting by adding
yourself to the wiki at http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings
.

Please register no later than close of business on Wednesday, 10/10.

Also, please note that October's meeting has been scheduled for Seville Tech
Talk in Building 40.  Please plan to pick up your badge at Building 41
reception and security will escort you to Seville Tech Talk in Building 40.

Cheers,
LH

-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Program Manager - Open Source
Google Inc.

http://code.google.com
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From glen.jarvis at homegain.com  Tue Oct  9 04:26:50 2007
From: glen.jarvis at homegain.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 19:26:50 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th meeting
References: <4869cee70710081814l1b8d6f4du2394ce4e1b8de38@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706BD6BBF@ex1.homegain.com>

Hello Baypiggies.

I'd like to take a quick moment to introduce myself before I ask for a ride from San Francisco to the Baypiggies Google meeting.

I am a new-to-california-transplant that has been here just over a month. I was hired to do Python programming. So, I took my first two weeks going through "Learning Python" front to back. I also have been doing extra "homework": In the evenings, I'd watch a new Monte Python Flying Circus through Netflix, and then send off the DVD to keep the cycle going. I'm almost through the series ;)

I've also since written two applications (although small) with Python. I've not yet gone through "System Programming with Python." (I don't have either book in front of me and could have been mistaken on exact title names). 

I couldn't go to the first Bay Piggies meeting because I had guests in town and was just settling in myself. I was really *really* looking forward to going. 

This morning, while bicycling to work, I decided to be stupid and try to jump a curb at 35ish mph (or however fast traffic was). Worse, I didn't actually "jump" and my angle to the curb was about 25 degrees. Can you say "Gumby." Needless to say, my left shoulder blade is "deformed" (bones aren't in their normal place). 

All of this, including the morning in ER, was fun - my first injury in California =) (Hey, when you're a new transplant, even bike injuries are exciting).

But, I'm suddenly realizing, I can't go to Baypiggies if I don't get a ride. Public transportation doesn't run late enough for the return trip. And, it looks like I *won't* be driving for 6-8 weeks.


Does anyone commute from San Francisco or Emeryville? I don't want to register unless I know I can make it.


Cheers,


Glen Jarvis
Chief Gumby on a bicycle


-----Original Message-----
From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org on behalf of Leslie Hawthorn
Sent: Mon 10/8/2007 6:14 PM
To: Python
Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th meeting
 
Hello baypiggies,

Please take a moment to register for this Thursday's meeting by adding
yourself to the wiki at http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings
.

Please register no later than close of business on Wednesday, 10/10.

Also, please note that October's meeting has been scheduled for Seville Tech
Talk in Building 40.  Please plan to pick up your badge at Building 41
reception and security will escort you to Seville Tech Talk in Building 40.

Cheers,
LH

-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Program Manager - Open Source
Google Inc.

http://code.google.com


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From max at theslimmers.net  Tue Oct  9 05:53:46 2007
From: max at theslimmers.net (Max Slimmer)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 20:53:46 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th meeting
In-Reply-To: <498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706BD6BBF@ex1.homegain.com>
Message-ID: <200710090353.l993rqYm005826@a.mail.sonic.net>

I will be driving down to meeting from the city (financial district), so can
probably give you a ride.
 
max


  _____  

From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org [mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org]
On Behalf Of Glen Jarvis
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 7:27 PM
To: Python
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th
meeting



Hello Baypiggies.

I'd like to take a quick moment to introduce myself before I ask for a ride
from San Francisco to the Baypiggies Google meeting.

I am a new-to-california-transplant that has been here just over a month. I
was hired to do Python programming. So, I took my first two weeks going
through "Learning Python" front to back. I also have been doing extra
"homework": In the evenings, I'd watch a new Monte Python Flying Circus
through Netflix, and then send off the DVD to keep the cycle going. I'm
almost through the series ;)

I've also since written two applications (although small) with Python. I've
not yet gone through "System Programming with Python." (I don't have either
book in front of me and could have been mistaken on exact title names).

I couldn't go to the first Bay Piggies meeting because I had guests in town
and was just settling in myself. I was really *really* looking forward to
going.

This morning, while bicycling to work, I decided to be stupid and try to
jump a curb at 35ish mph (or however fast traffic was). Worse, I didn't
actually "jump" and my angle to the curb was about 25 degrees. Can you say
"Gumby." Needless to say, my left shoulder blade is "deformed" (bones aren't
in their normal place).

All of this, including the morning in ER, was fun - my first injury in
California =) (Hey, when you're a new transplant, even bike injuries are
exciting).

But, I'm suddenly realizing, I can't go to Baypiggies if I don't get a ride.
Public transportation doesn't run late enough for the return trip. And, it
looks like I *won't* be driving for 6-8 weeks.


Does anyone commute from San Francisco or Emeryville? I don't want to
register unless I know I can make it.


Cheers,


Glen Jarvis
Chief Gumby on a bicycle


-----Original Message-----
From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org on behalf of Leslie Hawthorn
Sent: Mon 10/8/2007 6:14 PM
To: Python
Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th meeting

Hello baypiggies,

Please take a moment to register for this Thursday's meeting by adding
yourself to the wiki at http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings
.

Please register no later than close of business on Wednesday, 10/10.

Also, please note that October's meeting has been scheduled for Seville Tech
Talk in Building 40.  Please plan to pick up your badge at Building 41
reception and security will escort you to Seville Tech Talk in Building 40.

Cheers,
LH

--
Leslie Hawthorn
Program Manager - Open Source
Google Inc.

http://code.google.com




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From lhawthorn at google.com  Tue Oct  9 06:37:44 2007
From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 21:37:44 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th meeting
In-Reply-To: <200710090353.l993rqYm005826@a.mail.sonic.net>
References: <498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706BD6BBF@ex1.homegain.com>
	<200710090353.l993rqYm005826@a.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4869cee70710082137g5f103ee9o5e563a7299f6e1ea@mail.gmail.com>

Should we add a rides needed section to the wiki?

On 10/8/07, Max Slimmer <max at theslimmers.net> wrote:
>
>  I will be driving down to meeting from the city (financial district), so
> can probably give you a ride.
>
> max
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* baypiggies-bounces at python.org [mailto:
> baypiggies-bounces at python.org] *On Behalf Of *Glen Jarvis
> *Sent:* Monday, October 08, 2007 7:27 PM
> *To:* Python
> *Subject:* Re: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th
> meeting
>
>  Hello Baypiggies.
>
> I'd like to take a quick moment to introduce myself before I ask for a
> ride from San Francisco to the Baypiggies Google meeting.
>
> I am a new-to-california-transplant that has been here just over a month.
> I was hired to do Python programming. So, I took my first two weeks going
> through "Learning Python" front to back. I also have been doing extra
> "homework": In the evenings, I'd watch a new Monte Python Flying Circus
> through Netflix, and then send off the DVD to keep the cycle going. I'm
> almost through the series ;)
>
> I've also since written two applications (although small) with Python.
> I've not yet gone through "System Programming with Python." (I don't have
> either book in front of me and could have been mistaken on exact title
> names).
>
> I couldn't go to the first Bay Piggies meeting because I had guests in
> town and was just settling in myself. I was really *really* looking forward
> to going.
>
> This morning, while bicycling to work, I decided to be stupid and try to
> jump a curb at 35ish mph (or however fast traffic was). Worse, I didn't
> actually "jump" and my angle to the curb was about 25 degrees. Can you say
> "Gumby." Needless to say, my left shoulder blade is "deformed" (bones aren't
> in their normal place).
>
> All of this, including the morning in ER, was fun - my first injury in
> California =) (Hey, when you're a new transplant, even bike injuries are
> exciting).
>
> But, I'm suddenly realizing, I can't go to Baypiggies if I don't get a
> ride. Public transportation doesn't run late enough for the return trip.
> And, it looks like I *won't* be driving for 6-8 weeks.
>
>
> Does anyone commute from San Francisco or Emeryville? I don't want to
> register unless I know I can make it.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Glen Jarvis
> Chief Gumby on a bicycle
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org on behalf of Leslie Hawthorn
> Sent: Mon 10/8/2007 6:14 PM
> To: Python
> Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th meeting
>
> Hello baypiggies,
>
> Please take a moment to register for this Thursday's meeting by adding
> yourself to the wiki at
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings
> .
>
> Please register no later than close of business on Wednesday, 10/10.
>
> Also, please note that October's meeting has been scheduled for Seville
> Tech
> Talk in Building 40.  Please plan to pick up your badge at Building 41
> reception and security will escort you to Seville Tech Talk in Building
> 40.
>
> Cheers,
> LH
>
> --
> Leslie Hawthorn
> Program Manager - Open Source
> Google Inc.
>
> http://code.google.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Program Manager - Open Source
Google Inc.

http://code.google.com
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From mrbmahoney at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 05:56:44 2007
From: mrbmahoney at gmail.com (Brian Mahoney)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 20:56:44 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Dinner Announcement - Thursday, October 11, 6 pm
Message-ID: <5538c19b0710082056m1852af62y5090cd5458fb24f@mail.gmail.com>

For Thursday, October 11, I can coordinate a pre-meeting
dinner in Mountain View, before the BayPIGgies meeting
at Google .

Restaurant reservations may be sent to my email until
Thursday afternoon (earlier is better). We eat family-style,
there are vegetarian and non-vegetarian dishes.  Cost around
$10 per person, including tax and tip. Bring cash, please.

Start dinner at 6pm and I will keep things moving so that we
finish and get everyone headed towards Google to
complete sign-in before the 7:30 meeting start.

The restaurant is Cafe Yulong in downtown Mountain View
(650) 960-1677
743 W Dana Street, 1/2 block from Castro where
Books, Inc is on the corner.
Parking lots all around, but downtown Mountain View
parking is still difficult.

It is a slightly out of the ordinary Chinese
restaurant.  This link has a downtown map and
additional information.
http://www.mountainviewca.net/restaurants/cafeyulong.html

I've made reservations under "Python" for 6pm
Thursday.

If you wish to join us for dinner please e-mail me
by 3 pm Thursday (earlier is better) so I may confirm
the headcount.

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Oct  9 16:16:43 2007
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 07:16:43 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th meeting
In-Reply-To: <498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706BD6BBF@ex1.homegain.com>
References: <4869cee70710081814l1b8d6f4du2394ce4e1b8de38@mail.gmail.com>
	<498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706BD6BBF@ex1.homegain.com>
Message-ID: <20071009141643.GA3942@panix.com>

On Mon, Oct 08, 2007, Glen Jarvis wrote:
>
> Hello Baypiggies.

Welcome!

> Does anyone commute from San Francisco or Emeryville? I don't want to
> register unless I know I can make it.

Go ahead and register -- it's not like it costs much.  Contrariwise, you
can certainly show up without pre-registering, it just takes a bit more
time to get in.  (The latter is what I usually do on my rare occasions to
BayPIGgies these days.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
to post the wrong information.

From jim at well.com  Tue Oct  9 17:14:23 2007
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:14:23 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th meeting
In-Reply-To: <4869cee70710082137g5f103ee9o5e563a7299f6e1ea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706BD6BBF@ex1.homegain.com>
	<200710090353.l993rqYm005826@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<4869cee70710082137g5f103ee9o5e563a7299f6e1ea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <224974cb6fac77c590981e8be62086a7@well.com>


yes, please.

On Oct 8, 2007, at 9:37 PM, Leslie Hawthorn wrote:

> Should we add a rides needed section to the wiki?
>
> On 10/8/07, Max Slimmer <max at theslimmers.net> wrote: I will be driving 
> down to meeting from the city (financial district), so can probably 
> give you a ride.
>> ?
>> max
>>
>>> From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org 
>>> [mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org] On Behalf Of Glen Jarvis
>>> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 7:27 PM
>>> To: Python
>>> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 
>>> 11th meeting
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello Baypiggies.
>>>
>>> I'd like to take a quick moment to introduce myself before I ask for 
>>> a ride from San Francisco to the Baypiggies Google meeting.
>>>
>>> I am a new-to-california-transplant that has been here just over a 
>>> month. I was hired to do Python programming. So, I took my first two 
>>> weeks going through "Learning Python" front to back. I also have 
>>> been doing extra "homework": In the evenings, I'd watch a new Monte 
>>> Python Flying Circus through Netflix, and then send off the DVD to 
>>> keep the cycle going. I'm almost through the series ;)
>>>
>>> I've also since written two applications (although small) with 
>>> Python. I've not yet gone through "System Programming with Python." 
>>> (I don't have either book in front of me and could have been 
>>> mistaken on exact title names).
>>>
>>> I couldn't go to the first Bay Piggies meeting because I had guests 
>>> in town and was just settling in myself. I was really *really* 
>>> looking forward to going.
>>>
>>> This morning, while bicycling to work, I decided to be stupid and 
>>> try to jump a curb at 35ish mph (or however fast traffic was). 
>>> Worse, I didn't actually "jump" and my angle to the curb was about 
>>> 25 degrees. Can you say "Gumby." Needless to say, my left shoulder 
>>> blade is "deformed" (bones aren't in their normal place).
>>>
>>> All of this, including the morning in ER, was fun - my first injury 
>>> in California =) (Hey, when you're a new transplant, even bike 
>>> injuries are exciting).
>>>
>>> But, I'm suddenly realizing, I can't go to Baypiggies if I don't get 
>>> a ride. Public transportation doesn't run late enough for the return 
>>> trip. And, it looks like I *won't* be driving for 6-8 weeks.
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone commute from San Francisco or Emeryville? I don't want 
>>> to register unless I know I can make it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>>
>>> Glen Jarvis
>>> Chief Gumby on a bicycle
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org on behalf of Leslie Hawthorn
>>> Sent: Mon 10/8/2007 6:14 PM
>>> To: Python
>>> Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th 
>>> meeting
>>>
>>> Hello baypiggies,
>>>
>>> Please take a moment to register for this Thursday's meeting by 
>>> adding
>>> yourself to the wiki at 
>>> http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings
>>> .
>>>
>>> Please register no later than close of business on Wednesday, 10/10.
>>>
>>> Also, please note that October's meeting has been scheduled for 
>>> Seville Tech
>>> Talk in Building 40.? Please plan to pick up your badge at Building 
>>> 41
>>> reception and security will escort you to Seville Tech Talk in 
>>> Building 40.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> LH
>>>
>>> --
>>> Leslie Hawthorn
>>> Program Manager - Open Source
>>> Google Inc.
>>>
>>> http://code.google.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>
>
> -- 
> Leslie Hawthorn
> Program Manager - Open Source
> Google Inc.
>
> http://code.google.com_______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

From lhawthorn at google.com  Tue Oct  9 17:22:11 2007
From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:22:11 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th meeting
In-Reply-To: <224974cb6fac77c590981e8be62086a7@well.com>
References: <498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706BD6BBF@ex1.homegain.com>
	<200710090353.l993rqYm005826@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<4869cee70710082137g5f103ee9o5e563a7299f6e1ea@mail.gmail.com>
	<224974cb6fac77c590981e8be62086a7@well.com>
Message-ID: <4869cee70710090822x4088eaefkd7261b87e40d1527@mail.gmail.com>

Added.

On 10/9/07, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>
> yes, please.
>
> On Oct 8, 2007, at 9:37 PM, Leslie Hawthorn wrote:
>
> > Should we add a rides needed section to the wiki?
> >
> > On 10/8/07, Max Slimmer <max at theslimmers.net> wrote: I will be driving
> > down to meeting from the city (financial district), so can probably
> > give you a ride.
> >>
> >> max
> >>
> >>> From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org
> >>> [mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org] On Behalf Of Glen Jarvis
> >>> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 7:27 PM
> >>> To: Python
> >>> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October
> >>> 11th meeting
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hello Baypiggies.
> >>>
> >>> I'd like to take a quick moment to introduce myself before I ask for
> >>> a ride from San Francisco to the Baypiggies Google meeting.
> >>>
> >>> I am a new-to-california-transplant that has been here just over a
> >>> month. I was hired to do Python programming. So, I took my first two
> >>> weeks going through "Learning Python" front to back. I also have
> >>> been doing extra "homework": In the evenings, I'd watch a new Monte
> >>> Python Flying Circus through Netflix, and then send off the DVD to
> >>> keep the cycle going. I'm almost through the series ;)
> >>>
> >>> I've also since written two applications (although small) with
> >>> Python. I've not yet gone through "System Programming with Python."
> >>> (I don't have either book in front of me and could have been
> >>> mistaken on exact title names).
> >>>
> >>> I couldn't go to the first Bay Piggies meeting because I had guests
> >>> in town and was just settling in myself. I was really *really*
> >>> looking forward to going.
> >>>
> >>> This morning, while bicycling to work, I decided to be stupid and
> >>> try to jump a curb at 35ish mph (or however fast traffic was).
> >>> Worse, I didn't actually "jump" and my angle to the curb was about
> >>> 25 degrees. Can you say "Gumby." Needless to say, my left shoulder
> >>> blade is "deformed" (bones aren't in their normal place).
> >>>
> >>> All of this, including the morning in ER, was fun - my first injury
> >>> in California =) (Hey, when you're a new transplant, even bike
> >>> injuries are exciting).
> >>>
> >>> But, I'm suddenly realizing, I can't go to Baypiggies if I don't get
> >>> a ride. Public transportation doesn't run late enough for the return
> >>> trip. And, it looks like I *won't* be driving for 6-8 weeks.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Does anyone commute from San Francisco or Emeryville? I don't want
> >>> to register unless I know I can make it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Glen Jarvis
> >>> Chief Gumby on a bicycle
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org on behalf of Leslie Hawthorn
> >>> Sent: Mon 10/8/2007 6:14 PM
> >>> To: Python
> >>> Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th
> >>> meeting
> >>>
> >>> Hello baypiggies,
> >>>
> >>> Please take a moment to register for this Thursday's meeting by
> >>> adding
> >>> yourself to the wiki at
> >>> http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings
> >>> .
> >>>
> >>> Please register no later than close of business on Wednesday, 10/10.
> >>>
> >>> Also, please note that October's meeting has been scheduled for
> >>> Seville Tech
> >>> Talk in Building 40. Please plan to pick up your badge at Building
> >>> 41
> >>> reception and security will escort you to Seville Tech Talk in
> >>> Building 40.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> LH
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Leslie Hawthorn
> >>> Program Manager - Open Source
> >>> Google Inc.
> >>>
> >>> http://code.google.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Baypiggies mailing list
> >> Baypiggies at python.org
> >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Leslie Hawthorn
> > Program Manager - Open Source
> > Google Inc.
> >
> > http://code.google.com_______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Program Manager - Open Source
Google Inc.

http://code.google.com
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From lhawthorn at google.com  Tue Oct  9 20:26:31 2007
From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:26:31 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th meeting
In-Reply-To: <200710091822.l99IMaEZ018711@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <4869cee70710082137g5f103ee9o5e563a7299f6e1ea@mail.gmail.com>
	<200710091822.l99IMaEZ018711@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4869cee70710091126p5b28c2e9ka068a9492dd1e021@mail.gmail.com>

You can add yourself to the rides section as offering a ride when you
register.  :)

On 10/9/07, Max Slimmer <max at theslimmers.net> wrote:
>
>  good idea, but though I am happy to provide rides, I wouldn't go looking
> for them, and don't regularly read the wiki
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Leslie Hawthorn [mailto:lhawthorn at google.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, October 08, 2007 9:38 PM
> *To:* Max Slimmer
> *Cc:* Glen Jarvis; Python
> *Subject:* Re: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th
> meeting
>
> Should we add a rides needed section to the wiki?
>
> On 10/8/07, Max Slimmer <max at theslimmers.net> wrote:
> >
> >  I will be driving down to meeting from the city (financial district),
> > so can probably give you a ride.
> >
> > max
> >
> >  ------------------------------
> > *From:* baypiggies-bounces at python.org [mailto:
> > baypiggies-bounces at python.org] *On Behalf Of *Glen Jarvis
> > *Sent:* Monday, October 08, 2007 7:27 PM
> > *To:* Python
> > *Subject:* Re: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th
> > meeting
> >
> >  Hello Baypiggies.
> >
> > I'd like to take a quick moment to introduce myself before I ask for a
> > ride from San Francisco to the Baypiggies Google meeting.
> >
> > I am a new-to-california-transplant that has been here just over a
> > month. I was hired to do Python programming. So, I took my first two weeks
> > going through "Learning Python" front to back. I also have been doing extra
> > "homework": In the evenings, I'd watch a new Monte Python Flying Circus
> > through Netflix, and then send off the DVD to keep the cycle going. I'm
> > almost through the series ;)
> >
> > I've also since written two applications (although small) with Python.
> > I've not yet gone through "System Programming with Python." (I don't have
> > either book in front of me and could have been mistaken on exact title
> > names).
> >
> > I couldn't go to the first Bay Piggies meeting because I had guests in
> > town and was just settling in myself. I was really *really* looking forward
> > to going.
> >
> > This morning, while bicycling to work, I decided to be stupid and try to
> > jump a curb at 35ish mph (or however fast traffic was). Worse, I didn't
> > actually "jump" and my angle to the curb was about 25 degrees. Can you say
> > "Gumby." Needless to say, my left shoulder blade is "deformed" (bones aren't
> > in their normal place).
> >
> > All of this, including the morning in ER, was fun - my first injury in
> > California =) (Hey, when you're a new transplant, even bike injuries are
> > exciting).
> >
> > But, I'm suddenly realizing, I can't go to Baypiggies if I don't get a
> > ride. Public transportation doesn't run late enough for the return trip.
> > And, it looks like I *won't* be driving for 6-8 weeks.
> >
> >
> > Does anyone commute from San Francisco or Emeryville? I don't want to
> > register unless I know I can make it.
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >
> > Glen Jarvis
> > Chief Gumby on a bicycle
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org on behalf of Leslie Hawthorn
> > Sent: Mon 10/8/2007 6:14 PM
> > To: Python
> > Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th
> > meeting
> >
> > Hello baypiggies,
> >
> > Please take a moment to register for this Thursday's meeting by adding
> > yourself to the wiki at http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings
> >
> > .
> >
> > Please register no later than close of business on Wednesday, 10/10.
> >
> > Also, please note that October's meeting has been scheduled for Seville
> > Tech
> > Talk in Building 40.  Please plan to pick up your badge at Building 41
> > reception and security will escort you to Seville Tech Talk in Building
> > 40.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > LH
> >
> > --
> > Leslie Hawthorn
> > Program Manager - Open Source
> > Google Inc.
> >
> > http://code.google.com
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Leslie Hawthorn
> Program Manager - Open Source
> Google Inc.
>
> http://code.google.com
>
>


-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Program Manager - Open Source
Google Inc.

http://code.google.com
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From max at theslimmers.net  Tue Oct  9 20:22:36 2007
From: max at theslimmers.net (Max Slimmer)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:22:36 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th meeting
In-Reply-To: <4869cee70710082137g5f103ee9o5e563a7299f6e1ea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200710091822.l99IMaEZ018711@b.mail.sonic.net>

good idea, but though I am happy to provide rides, I wouldn't go looking for
them, and don't regularly read the wiki


  _____  

From: Leslie Hawthorn [mailto:lhawthorn at google.com] 
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 9:38 PM
To: Max Slimmer
Cc: Glen Jarvis; Python
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th
meeting


Should we add a rides needed section to the wiki?


On 10/8/07, Max Slimmer <max at theslimmers.net> wrote: 

I will be driving down to meeting from the city (financial district), so can
probably give you a ride.
 
max


  _____  

From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org [mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org]
On Behalf Of Glen Jarvis
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 7:27 PM
To: Python
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th
meeting




Hello Baypiggies.

I'd like to take a quick moment to introduce myself before I ask for a ride
from San Francisco to the Baypiggies Google meeting.

I am a new-to-california-transplant that has been here just over a month. I
was hired to do Python programming. So, I took my first two weeks going
through "Learning Python" front to back. I also have been doing extra
"homework": In the evenings, I'd watch a new Monte Python Flying Circus
through Netflix, and then send off the DVD to keep the cycle going. I'm
almost through the series ;)

I've also since written two applications (although small) with Python. I've
not yet gone through "System Programming with Python." (I don't have either
book in front of me and could have been mistaken on exact title names).

I couldn't go to the first Bay Piggies meeting because I had guests in town
and was just settling in myself. I was really *really* looking forward to
going.

This morning, while bicycling to work, I decided to be stupid and try to
jump a curb at 35ish mph (or however fast traffic was). Worse, I didn't
actually "jump" and my angle to the curb was about 25 degrees. Can you say
"Gumby." Needless to say, my left shoulder blade is "deformed" (bones aren't
in their normal place).

All of this, including the morning in ER, was fun - my first injury in
California =) (Hey, when you're a new transplant, even bike injuries are
exciting).

But, I'm suddenly realizing, I can't go to Baypiggies if I don't get a ride.
Public transportation doesn't run late enough for the return trip. And, it
looks like I *won't* be driving for 6-8 weeks.


Does anyone commute from San Francisco or Emeryville? I don't want to
register unless I know I can make it.


Cheers,


Glen Jarvis
Chief Gumby on a bicycle


-----Original Message-----
From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org on behalf of Leslie Hawthorn
Sent: Mon 10/8/2007 6:14 PM
To: Python
Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th meeting

Hello baypiggies,

Please take a moment to register for this Thursday's meeting by adding
yourself to the wiki at http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings
<http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings> 
.

Please register no later than close of business on Wednesday, 10/10.

Also, please note that October's meeting has been scheduled for Seville Tech
Talk in Building 40.  Please plan to pick up your badge at Building 41
reception and security will escort you to Seville Tech Talk in Building 40.

Cheers,
LH

--
Leslie Hawthorn
Program Manager - Open Source
Google Inc.

http://code.google.com





_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
Baypiggies at python.org
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies





-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Program Manager - Open Source
Google Inc.

http://code.google.com 

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From afife at untangle.com  Tue Oct  9 20:40:40 2007
From: afife at untangle.com (Andrew Fife)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:40:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baypiggies] BALUG Meeting: F/OSS Backup & Recovery (Tues 10/16)
Message-ID: <005001c80aa3$d137a110$8eb4a8c0@Untangle.local>

Howdy Folks:

BALUG is hosting a great talk next Tuesday (10/16) titled "Open Source
Backup with Amanda" by the project's co-Founder, Paddy Sreenivasan.  Paddy
will explain how Amanda is different, its current status and why Linux
users should consider using it.  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
RSVP at BALUG.ORG - RSVPs are not mandatory, but they do help us out a lot
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

6:30PM
October 16th, 2007 (Next Tuesday)
Four Seas Restaurant
731 Grant Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94108
www.balug.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
COST: The event is free. However, dinner is $13 for those that want to
eat.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

About Amanda:  
--------------
Amanda is the worlds most popular open source backup and recovery
software. Amanda protects over 500,000 systems running Linux, UNIX, OS-X &
Windows.  Paddy Sreenivasan is the co-founder & VP Engineering of Amanda's
commercial twin, Zmanda.  http://amanda.zmanda.com 

About BALUG: 
--------------
BALUG is lively gathering of Linux users & free software enthusiasts that
combines great food, community & intimate access to featured speakers.  We
meet in the bar of the Four Seas Restaurant from 6:30pm.  At 7pm, we share
a family-style Chinese dinner, which is followed by our guest speaker.
http://www.balug.org    

I hope to see you there!

Andrew

P.S.  If you want to help BALUG distribute flyers for the event, you can
find them here:

http://www.balug.org/flyers/2007-10-16.pdf

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Fife
Untangle - Open Source Security Gateway
download.untangle.com

650.425.3327 (O)
415.806.6028 (C)
afife at untangle.com


From eric at ericwalstad.com  Wed Oct 10 02:32:46 2007
From: eric at ericwalstad.com (Eric Walstad)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:32:46 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] A marginally pythonic announcement
Message-ID: <470C1DAE.6030704@ericwalstad.com>

def geeky_announcement():
    """A marginally pythonic announcement"""
    d = dict(
        py_ist=raw_input(
            "What do you call a Python programmer?\t"
        ),
        non_py_lang=raw_input(
            "Name a programming language other than Python\t"
        ),
        my_email=''.join([chr(i) for i in [
            0x65,0x72,0x69,0x63,0x40,0x65,0x72,0x69,0x63,0x77,
            0x61,0x6c,0x73,0x74,0x61,0x64,0x2e,0x63,0x6f,0x6d,
        ]]),
        sep='*' * 65,
    )
    d['verb'] = raw_input(
        "What do '%s' programmers do when no one is looking?\t" \
        % d['non_py_lang']
    )

    msg = """

%(sep)s
I wanted to let the folks on the list know about an upcoming
office rental opportunity.  The office/room next to mine may
be available soon (probably Nov 1).  There are two
"Independent Contractor" %(py_ist)ss here now.  I've heard
that %(non_py_lang)s programmers are at times known to
%(verb)s, so I think it would be awesome to have another
%(py_ist)s rent the room next door.

The office building is very near the Glenn Park BART station
in San Francisco.  It's a converted mixed use building that
now has two three-room offices above and a coffee shop below.

If you are interested, contact me off-list

Thanks,

Eric.
%(my_email)s
%(sep)s"""
    print msg % d

#geeky_announcement()



From annaraven at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 02:44:00 2007
From: annaraven at gmail.com (Anna Ravenscroft)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 17:44:00 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] A marginally pythonic announcement
In-Reply-To: <470C1DAE.6030704@ericwalstad.com>
References: <470C1DAE.6030704@ericwalstad.com>
Message-ID: <cb361a610710091744n23f10869v10e2cba36be7d9a1@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 9, 2007 5:32 PM, Eric Walstad <eric at ericwalstad.com> wrote:
> def geeky_announcement():
>     """A marginally pythonic announcement"""
>     d = dict(
>         py_ist=raw_input(
>             "What do you call a Python programmer?\t"
>         ),
>         non_py_lang=raw_input(
>             "Name a programming language other than Python\t"
>         ),
>         my_email=''.join([chr(i) for i in [
>             0x65,0x72,0x69,0x63,0x40,0x65,0x72,0x69,0x63,0x77,
>             0x61,0x6c,0x73,0x74,0x61,0x64,0x2e,0x63,0x6f,0x6d,
>         ]]),
>         sep='*' * 65,
>     )
>     d['verb'] = raw_input(
>         "What do '%s' programmers do when no one is looking?\t" \
>         % d['non_py_lang']
>     )
>
>     msg = """
>
> %(sep)s
> I wanted to let the folks on the list know about an upcoming
> office rental opportunity.  The office/room next to mine may
> be available soon (probably Nov 1).  There are two
> "Independent Contractor" %(py_ist)ss here now.  I've heard
> that %(non_py_lang)s programmers are at times known to
> %(verb)s, so I think it would be awesome to have another
> %(py_ist)s rent the room next door.
>
> The office building is very near the Glenn Park BART station
> in San Francisco.  It's a converted mixed use building that
> now has two three-room offices above and a coffee shop below.
>
> If you are interested, contact me off-list
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric.
> %(my_email)s
> %(sep)s"""
>     print msg % d
>
> #geeky_announcement()


BRAVO!!!
That takes the prize for the best job posting I've ever seen!

-- 
cordially,
Anna
--
Walking through the water. Trying to get across.
Just like everybody else.

From kelly at nttmcl.com  Wed Oct 10 02:58:46 2007
From: kelly at nttmcl.com (Kelly Yancey)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:58:46 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] A marginally pythonic announcement
In-Reply-To: <cb361a610710091744n23f10869v10e2cba36be7d9a1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <470C1DAE.6030704@ericwalstad.com>
	<cb361a610710091744n23f10869v10e2cba36be7d9a1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <470C23C6.40207@nttmcl.com>

Anna Ravenscroft wrote:
> On Oct 9, 2007 5:32 PM, Eric Walstad <eric at ericwalstad.com> wrote:
>> def geeky_announcement():
>>     """A marginally pythonic announcement"""
>>     d = dict(
>>         py_ist=raw_input(
>>             "What do you call a Python programmer?\t"
>>         ),
>>         non_py_lang=raw_input(
>>             "Name a programming language other than Python\t"
>>         ),
>>         my_email=''.join([chr(i) for i in [
>>             0x65,0x72,0x69,0x63,0x40,0x65,0x72,0x69,0x63,0x77,
>>             0x61,0x6c,0x73,0x74,0x61,0x64,0x2e,0x63,0x6f,0x6d,
>>         ]]),
>>         sep='*' * 65,
>>     )
>>     d['verb'] = raw_input(
>>         "What do '%s' programmers do when no one is looking?\t" \
>>         % d['non_py_lang']
>>     )
>>
>>     msg = """
>>
>> %(sep)s
>> I wanted to let the folks on the list know about an upcoming
>> office rental opportunity.  The office/room next to mine may
>> be available soon (probably Nov 1).  There are two
>> "Independent Contractor" %(py_ist)ss here now.  I've heard
>> that %(non_py_lang)s programmers are at times known to
>> %(verb)s, so I think it would be awesome to have another
>> %(py_ist)s rent the room next door.
>>
>> The office building is very near the Glenn Park BART station
>> in San Francisco.  It's a converted mixed use building that
>> now has two three-room offices above and a coffee shop below.
>>
>> If you are interested, contact me off-list
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Eric.
>> %(my_email)s
>> %(sep)s"""
>>     print msg % d
>>
>> #geeky_announcement()
> 
> 
> BRAVO!!!
> That takes the prize for the best job posting I've ever seen!
> 

And best real estate posting too, no less! :)

Kelly


From jjinux at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 06:21:50 2007
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 21:21:50 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] A marginally pythonic announcement
In-Reply-To: <470C1DAE.6030704@ericwalstad.com>
References: <470C1DAE.6030704@ericwalstad.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90710092121m36c9d270q9d7bbb8ce5e77c7@mail.gmail.com>

As list administrator, I'd like to give my official stamp of approval
for this style advertisement.  Indeed, I think it sets the precedent
for other such (Python-related) posts.

-jj

On 10/9/07, Eric Walstad <eric at ericwalstad.com> wrote:
> def geeky_announcement():
>     """A marginally pythonic announcement"""
>     d = dict(
>         py_ist=raw_input(
>             "What do you call a Python programmer?\t"
>         ),
>         non_py_lang=raw_input(
>             "Name a programming language other than Python\t"
>         ),
>         my_email=''.join([chr(i) for i in [
>             0x65,0x72,0x69,0x63,0x40,0x65,0x72,0x69,0x63,0x77,
>             0x61,0x6c,0x73,0x74,0x61,0x64,0x2e,0x63,0x6f,0x6d,
>         ]]),
>         sep='*' * 65,
>     )
>     d['verb'] = raw_input(
>         "What do '%s' programmers do when no one is looking?\t" \
>         % d['non_py_lang']
>     )
>
>     msg = """
>
> %(sep)s
> I wanted to let the folks on the list know about an upcoming
> office rental opportunity.  The office/room next to mine may
> be available soon (probably Nov 1).  There are two
> "Independent Contractor" %(py_ist)ss here now.  I've heard
> that %(non_py_lang)s programmers are at times known to
> %(verb)s, so I think it would be awesome to have another
> %(py_ist)s rent the room next door.
>
> The office building is very near the Glenn Park BART station
> in San Francisco.  It's a converted mixed use building that
> now has two three-room offices above and a coffee shop below.
>
> If you are interested, contact me off-list
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric.
> %(my_email)s
> %(sep)s"""
>     print msg % d
>
> #geeky_announcement()

From stephen at stephencox.org  Wed Oct 10 23:09:54 2007
From: stephen at stephencox.org (Stephen Cox)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:09:54 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th meeting
In-Reply-To: <4869cee70710082137g5f103ee9o5e563a7299f6e1ea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706BD6BBF@ex1.homegain.com>
	<200710090353.l993rqYm005826@a.mail.sonic.net>
	<4869cee70710082137g5f103ee9o5e563a7299f6e1ea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <79617805-91F3-4AE8-AA4D-38C33A0C3A9A@stephencox.org>

Yes please. I live in San Francisco and don't own a car. Haven't gone  
to  meetings due to lack of transpiration. if there was a car pool  
thing set up be glad to contribute to gas/food/whatever it took ti  
get the driver going. ;)

-Stephen Cox
On Oct 8, 2007, at 9:37 PM, Leslie Hawthorn wrote:

> Should we add a rides needed section to the wiki?
>
> On 10/8/07, Max Slimmer <max at theslimmers.net> wrote:
> I will be driving down to meeting from the city (financial  
> district), so can probably give you a ride.
>
> max
>
> From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org [mailto:baypiggies- 
> bounces at python.org] On Behalf Of Glen Jarvis
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 7:27 PM
> To: Python
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October  
> 11th meeting
>
> Hello Baypiggies.
>
> I'd like to take a quick moment to introduce myself before I ask  
> for a ride from San Francisco to the Baypiggies Google meeting.
>
> I am a new-to-california-transplant that has been here just over a  
> month. I was hired to do Python programming. So, I took my first  
> two weeks going through "Learning Python" front to back. I also  
> have been doing extra "homework": In the evenings, I'd watch a new  
> Monte Python Flying Circus through Netflix, and then send off the  
> DVD to keep the cycle going. I'm almost through the series ;)
>
> I've also since written two applications (although small) with  
> Python. I've not yet gone through "System Programming with  
> Python." (I don't have either book in front of me and could have  
> been mistaken on exact title names).
>
> I couldn't go to the first Bay Piggies meeting because I had guests  
> in town and was just settling in myself. I was really *really*  
> looking forward to going.
>
> This morning, while bicycling to work, I decided to be stupid and  
> try to jump a curb at 35ish mph (or however fast traffic was).  
> Worse, I didn't actually "jump" and my angle to the curb was about  
> 25 degrees. Can you say "Gumby." Needless to say, my left shoulder  
> blade is "deformed" (bones aren't in their normal place).
>
> All of this, including the morning in ER, was fun - my first injury  
> in California =) (Hey, when you're a new transplant, even bike  
> injuries are exciting).
>
> But, I'm suddenly realizing, I can't go to Baypiggies if I don't  
> get a ride. Public transportation doesn't run late enough for the  
> return trip. And, it looks like I *won't* be driving for 6-8 weeks.
>
>
> Does anyone commute from San Francisco or Emeryville? I don't want  
> to register unless I know I can make it.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Glen Jarvis
> Chief Gumby on a bicycle
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org on behalf of Leslie Hawthorn
> Sent: Mon 10/8/2007 6:14 PM
> To: Python
> Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration & Information for October 11th  
> meeting
>
> Hello baypiggies,
>
> Please take a moment to register for this Thursday's meeting by adding
> yourself to the wiki at http://wiki.python.org/moin/ 
> BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings
> .
>
> Please register no later than close of business on Wednesday, 10/10.
>
> Also, please note that October's meeting has been scheduled for  
> Seville Tech
> Talk in Building 40.  Please plan to pick up your badge at Building 41
> reception and security will escort you to Seville Tech Talk in  
> Building 40.
>
> Cheers,
> LH
>
> --
> Leslie Hawthorn
> Program Manager - Open Source
> Google Inc.
>
> http://code.google.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>
>
> -- 
> Leslie Hawthorn
> Program Manager - Open Source
> Google Inc.
>
> http://code.google.com
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

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From annaraven at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 23:14:33 2007
From: annaraven at gmail.com (Anna Ravenscroft)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:14:33 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] A marginally pythonic announcement
In-Reply-To: <470C23C6.40207@nttmcl.com>
References: <470C1DAE.6030704@ericwalstad.com>
	<cb361a610710091744n23f10869v10e2cba36be7d9a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<470C23C6.40207@nttmcl.com>
Message-ID: <cb361a610710101414n23266241u373f88b8ea7867f1@mail.gmail.com>

> > BRAVO!!!
> > That takes the prize for the best job posting I've ever seen!
> >
>
> And best real estate posting too, no less! :)

Yep - thinko alert. ;-)

(Not sure where "job" came from... shakes brain...hears rattling. hrmmm)
-- 
cordially,
Anna
--
Walking through the water. Trying to get across.
Just like everybody else.

From caparadi at cisco.com  Thu Oct 11 01:21:54 2007
From: caparadi at cisco.com (Catherine Paradiso -X (caparadi - Spherion at Cisco))
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:21:54 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Cisco/IronPort opportunities
Message-ID: <7C1A16F002FBDF4CBEF776C827420BFD8D362B@xmb-sjc-238.amer.cisco.com>

 

                                                                

It's an exciting time to work at Cisco. Every day we connect 

people to the network and make it come to life. 

Whether it's using e-learning to educate students far from 

city centers or downloading the entire Library of Congress 

in seconds, our networking technology has not only 

Revolutionized the way people do things, but who they are. 

People are more informed, more efficient, and more 

involved.    With all forms of communications converging 

onto the network, Cisco is entering an exciting new era. 

The concept of the network as the platform for transforming 

life's experiences is no longer a possibility: 

It is quickly becoming a reality. 

And Cisco is leading the experience. 

IronPort Systems is the leading email and Web security products provider
for organizations ranging from small businesses to the Global 2000.
IronPort provides high performance, easy-to-use, and technically
innovative products for guarding their mission-critical networks from
Internet threats. Great companies are often defined not by what they do,
but what they don't do. IronPort has been successful because of its
laser focus on unique technologies such as SenderBase and AsyncOS. To
complement these unique technologies, IronPort has the strongest
partnerships in the industry. This combination of proprietary technology
and best-of-breed partnerships will allow us to deliver on the vision of
Total Messaging Security.




UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY TO ENJOY THE BEST OF TWO WORLDS IN THE WORKPLACE




       We are currently hiring for the following positions in San Bruno:

*	R814828 Technical Leader I-San Jose California
*	R819444 Software Engineer IV San Bruno, CA
*	R818445 Software Engineer IV  San Bruno, California
*	R817795 Software Engineer San Bruno, California
*	R817624 Software Engineer III San Bruno, California
*	R817718  Software/QA Engineer IV  San Bruno, California
*	R817418-Sw Eng II-Anti Spam-San Bruno, Ca
*	R817417  Software Engineer II  California, San Bruno    
*	R817796  Software & Platform Engineer  San Bruno, California    
*	R817598  Software Engineer IV San Bruno, California
*	R819308 Software Engineer IV San Bruno, California
*	R819417 software Engineer IV San Bruno, California

Even though you may not be interested, perhaps you know someone who is.
Friend? Neighbor? Relative? Colleague?  Please feel free to pass my
contact information along if you can think of someone.  Your help will
be greatly appreciated!

For more information and/or consideration, GO TO MONSTER.COM   enter the
requisition number in your keyword search.

 

Thank  you! 

Cathi

Cathi Paradiso
SR Recruiter
Talent Acquisition and Management
caparadi at cisco.com <mailto:caparadi at cisco.com> 
Phone :800-491-6705

 
 
 
Cathi Paradiso
SR Recruiter
Talent Acquisition and Management

caparadi at cisco.com
Phone :800-491-6705




United States
www.cisco.com <http://www.cisco.com/> 

 	
This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged material for the
sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or
disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact
the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this message.	
 
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From kenobi at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 02:33:32 2007
From: kenobi at gmail.com (Rick Kwan)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:33:32 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Cisco/IronPort opportunities
In-Reply-To: <7C1A16F002FBDF4CBEF776C827420BFD8D362B@xmb-sjc-238.amer.cisco.com>
References: <7C1A16F002FBDF4CBEF776C827420BFD8D362B@xmb-sjc-238.amer.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <f0aa69930710101733q2d4e770s52589582b655aebd@mail.gmail.com>

While I'm happy to see that Cisco has an interest in BayPiggies, I did
not see the word "Python" in the announcement.  Then I remembered that
IronPort makes extensive use of Python.  So I'm somewhat inclined to
give them the benefit of the doubt.  But we don't know that about
every potential employer that attempts to post here.

Is it fair to assume that all the posted positions for IronPort in San
Bruno are Python-related?

--Rick Kwan
  (happily employed in a Python job elsewhere)

On 10/10/07, Catherine Paradiso -X (caparadi - Spherion at Cisco)
<caparadi at cisco.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> It's an  exciting time to work at Cisco. Every day we connect
>
> people to the network and make  it come to life.
>

(...snipped....)

From jjinux at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 10:47:00 2007
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 01:47:00 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Cisco/IronPort opportunities
In-Reply-To: <f0aa69930710101733q2d4e770s52589582b655aebd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7C1A16F002FBDF4CBEF776C827420BFD8D362B@xmb-sjc-238.amer.cisco.com>
	<f0aa69930710101733q2d4e770s52589582b655aebd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90710110147p2c7982b7m273a8b1dff2a3ddf@mail.gmail.com>

Good catch, Rick.

Catherine, it's best to state how Python will be used when posting a
job posting to this list.  The job ad policy is here:
http://baypiggies.net/jobs.html.

However, I know from my experience working at IronPort, that almost
all of these jobs are for Python coders.  IronPort is a great place to
work, and it's probably one of the largest Python shops in the Bay
area.

Best Regards,
-jj

On 10/10/07, Rick Kwan <kenobi at gmail.com> wrote:
> While I'm happy to see that Cisco has an interest in BayPiggies, I did
> not see the word "Python" in the announcement.  Then I remembered that
> IronPort makes extensive use of Python.  So I'm somewhat inclined to
> give them the benefit of the doubt.  But we don't know that about
> every potential employer that attempts to post here.
>
> Is it fair to assume that all the posted positions for IronPort in San
> Bruno are Python-related?
>
> --Rick Kwan
>   (happily employed in a Python job elsewhere)
>
> On 10/10/07, Catherine Paradiso -X (caparadi - Spherion at Cisco)
> <caparadi at cisco.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > It's an  exciting time to work at Cisco. Every day we connect
> >
> > people to the network and make  it come to life.
> >
>
> (...snipped....)
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


-- 
I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From caparadi at cisco.com  Thu Oct 11 16:06:24 2007
From: caparadi at cisco.com (Catherine Paradiso -X (caparadi - Spherion at Cisco))
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:06:24 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies Digest, Vol 24, Issue 14
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1192096801.30968.baypiggies@python.org>
Message-ID: <7C1A16F002FBDF4CBEF776C827420BFD8D3711@xmb-sjc-238.amer.cisco.com>

Thank you JJ for clarifying...These are immediate openings,  the
complete job descriptions are on monster.com.  You may use the req # for
your keyword.  If you know anyone that is looking, please feel free to
pass my contact info along.
Cathi

However, I know from my experience working at IronPort, that almost all
of these jobs are for Python coders.  IronPort is a great place to work,
and it's probably one of the largest Python shops in the Bay area.

Best Regards,
-jj
 


 
 
Cathi Paradiso
SR Recruiter
Talent Acquisition and Management

caparadi at cisco.com
Phone :800-491-6705




United States
www.cisco.com

 	
This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged material for the
sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or
disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact
the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this message.	

-----Original Message-----
From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org
[mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org] On Behalf Of
baypiggies-request at python.org
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 4:00 AM
To: baypiggies at python.org
Subject: Baypiggies Digest, Vol 24, Issue 14

Send Baypiggies mailing list submissions to
	baypiggies at python.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	baypiggies-request at python.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	baypiggies-owner at python.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of Baypiggies digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  Cisco/IronPort opportunities (Rick Kwan)
   2. Re:  Cisco/IronPort opportunities (Shannon -jj Behrens)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:33:32 -0700
From: "Rick Kwan" <kenobi at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Cisco/IronPort opportunities
To: baypiggies at python.org
Cc: "Catherine Paradiso -X \(caparadi - Spherion at Cisco\)"
	<caparadi at cisco.com>
Message-ID:
	<f0aa69930710101733q2d4e770s52589582b655aebd at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

While I'm happy to see that Cisco has an interest in BayPiggies, I did
not see the word "Python" in the announcement.  Then I remembered that
IronPort makes extensive use of Python.  So I'm somewhat inclined to
give them the benefit of the doubt.  But we don't know that about every
potential employer that attempts to post here.

Is it fair to assume that all the posted positions for IronPort in San
Bruno are Python-related?

--Rick Kwan
  (happily employed in a Python job elsewhere)

On 10/10/07, Catherine Paradiso -X (caparadi - Spherion at Cisco)
<caparadi at cisco.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> It's an  exciting time to work at Cisco. Every day we connect
>
> people to the network and make  it come to life.
>

(...snipped....)


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 01:47:00 -0700
From: "Shannon -jj Behrens" <jjinux at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Cisco/IronPort opportunities
To: "Rick Kwan" <kenobi at gmail.com>
Cc: baypiggies at python.org,	"Catherine Paradiso -X \(caparadi -
	Spherion at Cisco\)"	<caparadi at cisco.com>
Message-ID:
	<c41f67b90710110147p2c7982b7m273a8b1dff2a3ddf at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Good catch, Rick.

Catherine, it's best to state how Python will be used when posting a job
posting to this list.  The job ad policy is here:
http://baypiggies.net/jobs.html.

However, I know from my experience working at IronPort, that almost all
of these jobs are for Python coders.  IronPort is a great place to work,
and it's probably one of the largest Python shops in the Bay area.

Best Regards,
-jj

On 10/10/07, Rick Kwan <kenobi at gmail.com> wrote:
> While I'm happy to see that Cisco has an interest in BayPiggies, I did

> not see the word "Python" in the announcement.  Then I remembered that

> IronPort makes extensive use of Python.  So I'm somewhat inclined to 
> give them the benefit of the doubt.  But we don't know that about 
> every potential employer that attempts to post here.
>
> Is it fair to assume that all the posted positions for IronPort in San

> Bruno are Python-related?
>
> --Rick Kwan
>   (happily employed in a Python job elsewhere)
>
> On 10/10/07, Catherine Paradiso -X (caparadi - Spherion at Cisco) 
> <caparadi at cisco.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > It's an  exciting time to work at Cisco. Every day we connect
> >
> > people to the network and make  it come to life.
> >
>
> (...snipped....)
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


--
I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/


------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
Baypiggies at python.org
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

End of Baypiggies Digest, Vol 24, Issue 14
******************************************

From tungwaiyip at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 11 17:57:23 2007
From: tungwaiyip at yahoo.com (Tung Wai Yip)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 08:57:23 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Cisco/IronPort opportunities
In-Reply-To: <f0aa69930710101733q2d4e770s52589582b655aebd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7C1A16F002FBDF4CBEF776C827420BFD8D362B@xmb-sjc-238.amer.cisco.com>
	<f0aa69930710101733q2d4e770s52589582b655aebd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.tz1ilxbkoiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>

Ever since Ironport has started using Cisco's HR system, it becomes hard  
for me to connect the generic job title to the actual project group. In  
anycase it is safe for me to say many jobs posted are 100% Python job.  
Though we do have some subgroups using varkious other languages  
appropriate for the job. So far Ironport engineering has see little change  
after the acquisition. We are running as an independent unit within Cisco  
and still retain much startup spirit. If working on a major Python project  
appeals to you (among many other benefits), please check them out. You can  
also contact me directly for more ground level information.

Wai Yip


> While I'm happy to see that Cisco has an interest in BayPiggies, I did
> not see the word "Python" in the announcement.  Then I remembered that
> IronPort makes extensive use of Python.  So I'm somewhat inclined to
> give them the benefit of the doubt.  But we don't know that about
> every potential employer that attempts to post here.
>
> Is it fair to assume that all the posted positions for IronPort in San
> Bruno are Python-related?
>
> --Rick Kwan
>   (happily employed in a Python job elsewhere)
>
> On 10/10/07, Catherine Paradiso -X (caparadi - Spherion at Cisco)
> <caparadi at cisco.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> It's an  exciting time to work at Cisco. Every day we connect
>>
>> people to the network and make  it come to life.
>>
>
> (...snipped....)
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>




From caparadi at cisco.com  Thu Oct 11 18:06:04 2007
From: caparadi at cisco.com (Catherine Paradiso -X (caparadi - Spherion at Cisco))
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:06:04 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Cisco/IronPort opportunities
In-Reply-To: <op.tz1ilxbkoiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7C1A16F002FBDF4CBEF776C827420BFD8D3777@xmb-sjc-238.amer.cisco.com>

Thanks Tung, the positions are in Platforms and SecApps,  we are looking
to initiate an employee referral program within IronPort's staff.  I
should know more about that today or tomorrow. 


 
 
Cathi Paradiso
SR Recruiter
Talent Acquisition and Management

caparadi at cisco.com
Phone :800-491-6705




United States
www.cisco.com

 	
This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged material for the
sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or
disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact
the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this message.	

-----Original Message-----
From: Tung Wai Yip [mailto:tungwaiyip at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:57 AM
To: baypiggies at python.org
Cc: Catherine Paradiso -X (caparadi - Spherion at Cisco)
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Cisco/IronPort opportunities

Ever since Ironport has started using Cisco's HR system, it becomes hard
for me to connect the generic job title to the actual project group. In
anycase it is safe for me to say many jobs posted are 100% Python job.  
Though we do have some subgroups using varkious other languages
appropriate for the job. So far Ironport engineering has see little
change after the acquisition. We are running as an independent unit
within Cisco and still retain much startup spirit. If working on a major
Python project appeals to you (among many other benefits), please check
them out. You can also contact me directly for more ground level
information.

Wai Yip


> While I'm happy to see that Cisco has an interest in BayPiggies, I did

> not see the word "Python" in the announcement.  Then I remembered that

> IronPort makes extensive use of Python.  So I'm somewhat inclined to 
> give them the benefit of the doubt.  But we don't know that about 
> every potential employer that attempts to post here.
>
> Is it fair to assume that all the posted positions for IronPort in San

> Bruno are Python-related?
>
> --Rick Kwan
>   (happily employed in a Python job elsewhere)
>
> On 10/10/07, Catherine Paradiso -X (caparadi - Spherion at Cisco) 
> <caparadi at cisco.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> It's an  exciting time to work at Cisco. Every day we connect
>>
>> people to the network and make  it come to life.
>>
>
> (...snipped....)
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From kenobi at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 18:22:59 2007
From: kenobi at gmail.com (Rick Kwan)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:22:59 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Wanted: a few good C/C++/Python developers
Message-ID: <f0aa69930710110922h192012f2n4478ea3548809401@mail.gmail.com>

The reason I've been so cognizant of job posting rules is because I'm
about to do it myself.  I got my current job through the BayPIGgies
list, and I'm confident there's a few more interested, qualified
people out there.

I don't have a job req number, but I know we're interviewing, have
talked with our recruiter, and with members of our team.  I work in a
team of about 15 people in a publicly traded company.  (NYSE:VMW)

Here is what I can tell of what we're looking for:
* Job is in R&D organization in Palo Alto.
* Working languages are C, C++, and Python; the main language depends
on the project.
* Should be very comfortable developing on Linux.
* Demonstrated knowledge of OS kernel, device drivers, file system,
and/or networking is desirable.  Tinkering in FreeBSD or Linux kernel
code is a plus.

Honestly, the current big need is for C.  But we're encouraged to be
fluent in all three listed above because projects come and go, and we
want to be nimble.  I currently do mostly Python and some C, but I
think that is about to flip for a while.

We do lots and lots of code reviews.  I've been looking for a place
with people to constructively take my Python code apart.  I've found
it.

I liked that "marginally Pythonic announcement" so much that I'm
posting my work e-mail address in a similar vein.
---- cut here ----
eaddr = ''.join([chr(i) for i in (
    114,106,107,119,97,110,64,118,109,119,97,114,101,46,99,111,109)])
print eaddr
---- cut here ----
Feel free to send me resumes and/or questions; I'll forward the
resumes to our in-house recruiter.

--Rick Kwan

From bjorn at ambientchill.com  Thu Oct 11 19:11:16 2007
From: bjorn at ambientchill.com (bjorn at ambientchill.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:11:16 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Wanted: a few good C/C++/Python developers
Message-ID: <20071011101115.a88b5a45d4f18442e3264b556d999a36.49b02ea29e.wbe@email.secureserver.net>

Just as a disclaimer, I'm not interested in the job, I just have a
question for Baypiggies related to this email. It seems like most jobs
for Python require some kind of extensive C or C++ background. Is this
true? I am a JavaScript developer and I'm happy with what I do, but
someday, maybe in a few years, I wouldn't mind finding a Python
development position.


> -------- Original Message --------
> From: "Rick Kwan" <kenobi at gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, October 11, 2007 9:22 am
> To: Baypiggies <baypiggies at python.org>
> 
> 
> The reason I've been so cognizant of job posting rules is because I'm
> about to do it myself.  I got my current job through the BayPIGgies
> list, and I'm confident there's a few more interested, qualified
> people out there.
> 
> I don't have a job req number, but I know we're interviewing, have
> talked with our recruiter, and with members of our team.  I work in a
> team of about 15 people in a publicly traded company.  (NYSE:VMW)
> 
> Here is what I can tell of what we're looking for:
> * Job is in R&D organization in Palo Alto.
> * Working languages are C, C++, and Python; the main language depends
> on the project.
> * Should be very comfortable developing on Linux.
> * Demonstrated knowledge of OS kernel, device drivers, file system,
> and/or networking is desirable.  Tinkering in FreeBSD or Linux kernel
> code is a plus.
> 
> Honestly, the current big need is for C.  But we're encouraged to be
> fluent in all three listed above because projects come and go, and we
> want to be nimble.  I currently do mostly Python and some C, but I
> think that is about to flip for a while.
> 
> We do lots and lots of code reviews.  I've been looking for a place
> with people to constructively take my Python code apart.  I've found
> it.
> 
> I liked that "marginally Pythonic announcement" so much that I'm
> posting my work e-mail address in a similar vein.
> ---- cut here ----
> eaddr = ''.join([chr(i) for i in (
>     114,106,107,119,97,110,64,118,109,119,97,114,101,46,99,111,109)])
> print eaddr
> ---- cut here ----
> Feel free to send me resumes and/or questions; I'll forward the
> resumes to our in-house recruiter.
> 
> --Rick Kwan
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From aleax at google.com  Thu Oct 11 19:52:54 2007
From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:52:54 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Wanted: a few good C/C++/Python developers
In-Reply-To: <20071011101115.a88b5a45d4f18442e3264b556d999a36.49b02ea29e.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
References: <20071011101115.a88b5a45d4f18442e3264b556d999a36.49b02ea29e.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <55dc209b0710111052y57b80177x2e6bf4b90df3b5e0@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/11/07, bjorn at ambientchill.com <bjorn at ambientchill.com> wrote:
> Just as a disclaimer, I'm not interested in the job, I just have a
> question for Baypiggies related to this email. It seems like most jobs
> for Python require some kind of extensive C or C++ background. Is this
> true? I am a JavaScript developer and I'm happy with what I do, but
> someday, maybe in a few years, I wouldn't mind finding a Python
> development position.

In my experience over the last few years, most jobs for *software
development* using Python do require (or at least strongly prefer)
people who also have good C, C++, or both; that's different from "jobs
for Python" since many such jobs are not strictly for software
development but rather other specialties that ALSO involve some Python
development but not exclusively that (website authoring, office
automation, testing, system administration, network stuff, scientific
computing, computational linguistics, etc, etc).  In the end the two
cases boil down to a single rule -- most good jobs requiring Python
actually require "Python plus X" where X, depending on the job in
question, may include "C background" and/or "system administration
skills/experience" and/or "HTML, CSS and web UI design", etc, etc.
(But then, most good jobs in ANY field do not require just ONE skill
-- very few good jobs are so obsessively specialistic as not to need,
or at least strongly prefer, two or more skills...!-).

The main reason why "Python and C" is historically prevalent over,
say, "Python and Java" or "Python and C#", is no doubt that the most
widespread implementation of Python is based on C and most easily
extendable in C or C++ -- so C or C++ is what you'll need to  write
extensions, debug internals of extensions (or the interpreter itself)
at need, study the sources of interpreter and extensions to understand
something that's not clearly or completely documented, and so forth.
If Jython takes over the world, "Python and Java" will rise in demand,
and similarly "Python and C#" will rise if there's a big surge in
acceptance of IronPython.  Recently, I've also started to see some
"Python and AJAX" combos (no doubt connected to web-app development,
and also requiring good understanding of HTML/CSS, I imagine).


Alex

From p at ulmcnett.com  Thu Oct 11 19:34:56 2007
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:34:56 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Wanted: a few good C/C++/Python developers
In-Reply-To: <20071011101115.a88b5a45d4f18442e3264b556d999a36.49b02ea29e.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
References: <20071011101115.a88b5a45d4f18442e3264b556d999a36.49b02ea29e.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <470E5EC0.4010309@ulmcnett.com>

bjorn at ambientchill.com wrote:
> Just as a disclaimer, I'm not interested in the job, I just have a
> question for Baypiggies related to this email. It seems like most jobs
> for Python require some kind of extensive C or C++ background. Is this
> true? I am a JavaScript developer and I'm happy with what I do, but
> someday, maybe in a few years, I wouldn't mind finding a Python
> development position.

C/C++ is a very common prerequisite for Python jobs, I've found. I'm not 
sure if this tends to be just another screening method: "Well, he's 
proficient in C, he has to be better than someone that doesn't". Or if 
it is because Python really integrates very well with C/C++ so that you 
can, for instance, prototype your stuff in Python and then optimize to 
C/C++. Or if the employer is just trying to cover all the bases, to "be 
nimble" as Rick wrote about the current opportunity at his employer.

It is kind of annoying, though. I chose to concentrate on learning 
Python *instead of* other languages I dabbled in, such as Java, C, C++, 
and Delphi.

I guess this is just another reason why I like to stay self-employed. I 
get to call the shots!

Then again, knowing several languages can give you good perspective on 
your own preferred language, and as an employer I'd certainly like to 
find and hire those types of people.

Note that the above paragraph should not be read that I wouldn't hire 
myself! :)

-- 
pkm ~ http://paulmcnett.com

From matt at matt-good.net  Thu Oct 11 20:15:51 2007
From: matt at matt-good.net (Matt Good)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:15:51 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Wanted: a few good C/C++/Python developers
In-Reply-To: <20071011101115.a88b5a45d4f18442e3264b556d999a36.49b02ea29e.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
References: <20071011101115.a88b5a45d4f18442e3264b556d999a36.49b02ea29e.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <1D20917D-CA73-45BA-A83A-B33D70727F07@matt-good.net>

On Oct 11, 2007, at 10:11 AM, bjorn at ambientchill.com wrote:

> Just as a disclaimer, I'm not interested in the job, I just have a
> question for Baypiggies related to this email. It seems like most jobs
> for Python require some kind of extensive C or C++ background. Is this
> true? I am a JavaScript developer and I'm happy with what I do, but
> someday, maybe in a few years, I wouldn't mind finding a Python
> development position.

Not necessarily.  My work at YouTube has been 100% Python and it's  
the same for most developers here.

BTW, there are openings for Python developers at YouTube as well.   
ActionScript experience would be a big plus for one of the  
positions.  If you want some more info email me and I'll look up the  
postings.

-- Matt

From wescpy at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 20:52:47 2007
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:52:47 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Internet Programming seminar, Sat 10/13, SFO
Message-ID: <78b3a9580710111152q14653e36w96db6114246c3a38@mail.gmail.com>

hi everyone,

i just thought i'd see if there are any last-minute folks interested
in coming to my Internet Programming seminar this Saturday 10/13 up in
San Bruno near SFO.  it will run from about 9:30am-5pm.  in this quick
course with lecture and lab, you will learn to:

- write network programs using sockets and the use the 'socket' module
- discover how to write FTP clients
- be able to view (and perhaps post) Usenet/newsgroup articles via NNTP
- learn how to download e-mail via POP3 -- it is similar for IMAP
- create e-mail and send it with SMTP
- develop web clients (non-browser programs which talk to web servers)
- be exposed to low-level web/CGI fundamentals as a jumping point to
more sophisticated web frameworks like Django, TurboGears, and Pylons
-- it will also be helpful to those who are learning Zope and Plone as
well
- become familiar with other related networking modules

here is the full course description:
http://roadkill.com/~wesc/cw/inpdsc.html

the venue is just about across the street from the San Bruno BART and
about 25min walk/10min bike ride up from San Bruno CalTrain, and has
easy 280 - 101 - 380 freeway access plus free parking.  Staybridge
Suites is located at 1350 (North) Huntington, 94066.  here is their
website for more info:
http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/h/d/sb/1/en/hd/sfobr

there are only 7 spaces left, and in the interest of filling it up,
i'm willing to give a significant discount to BayPIGgies members who
are interested.  pls contact me privately for further details, or go
to http://cyberwebconsulting.com (click "Python Training") to
register.  i'll make one more announcement tonite after the meeting at
mapping then talk to you during random access.

hope 2 c u there!
-- wesley
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001
    http://corepython.com

wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
python training and technical consulting
cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
http://cyberwebconsulting.com

From kenobi at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 21:07:06 2007
From: kenobi at gmail.com (Rick Kwan)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:07:06 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Wanted: a few good C/C++/Python developers
In-Reply-To: <1D20917D-CA73-45BA-A83A-B33D70727F07@matt-good.net>
References: <20071011101115.a88b5a45d4f18442e3264b556d999a36.49b02ea29e.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
	<1D20917D-CA73-45BA-A83A-B33D70727F07@matt-good.net>
Message-ID: <f0aa69930710111207t3c1377fdt7a1e0688ac670e2e@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/11/07, Matt Good <matt at matt-good.net> wrote:
> On Oct 11, 2007, at 10:11 AM, bjorn at ambientchill.com wrote:
>
> > Just as a disclaimer, I'm not interested in the job, I just have a
> > question for Baypiggies related to this email. It seems like most jobs
> > for Python require some kind of extensive C or C++ background. Is this
> > true? I am a JavaScript developer and I'm happy with what I do, but
> > someday, maybe in a few years, I wouldn't mind finding a Python
> > development position.
>
> Not necessarily.  My work at YouTube has been 100% Python and it's
> the same for most developers here.
>
> BTW, there are openings for Python developers at YouTube as well.
> ActionScript experience would be a big plus for one of the
> positions.  If you want some more info email me and I'll look up the
> postings.
>
> -- Matt

Whether you need C/C++ depends on what you're developing.  If you're
building scriptability for server-side shared libraries or DLLs, then
naturally you need C/C++ and would never touch JavaScript.  On the
other hand, if you're managing a client UI backed by a web server,
then C/C++ is useless and JavaScript is your friend.  And to my joyful
glee, Python is used in both.

--Rick

From tungwaiyip at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 11 21:06:51 2007
From: tungwaiyip at yahoo.com (Tung Wai Yip)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:06:51 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Wanted: a few good C/C++/Python developers
In-Reply-To: <20071011101115.a88b5a45d4f18442e3264b556d999a36.49b02ea29e.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
References: <20071011101115.a88b5a45d4f18442e3264b556d999a36.49b02ea29e.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <op.tz1rdpxroiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>

The fact is software development often requires skills beyond a single  
language. The most common requirement is HTML and Javascript for web  
development. C is the foundation of the Python interpreter and many  
libraries. Therefore it is common to list it as a related skill. In a  
similar way many jobs prefer people with Unix skill because it is the  
underlying platform for the application.

On the other hand I don't believe C is a prerequisite for Python. Most  
Python programmers mainly code at a high level. Just like it helps to get  
some Python programmer who is also a Linux hacker to optimize the system.  
It is not necessary for most Python programmers beyond a working knowledge  
of Linux.

Wai Yip


> Just as a disclaimer, I'm not interested in the job, I just have a
> question for Baypiggies related to this email. It seems like most jobs
> for Python require some kind of extensive C or C++ background. Is this
> true? I am a JavaScript developer and I'm happy with what I do, but
> someday, maybe in a few years, I wouldn't mind finding a Python
> development position.
>
>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> From: "Rick Kwan" <kenobi at gmail.com>
>> Date: Thu, October 11, 2007 9:22 am
>> To: Baypiggies <baypiggies at python.org>
>>
>>
>> The reason I've been so cognizant of job posting rules is because I'm
>> about to do it myself.  I got my current job through the BayPIGgies
>> list, and I'm confident there's a few more interested, qualified
>> people out there.
>>
>> I don't have a job req number, but I know we're interviewing, have
>> talked with our recruiter, and with members of our team.  I work in a
>> team of about 15 people in a publicly traded company.  (NYSE:VMW)
>>
>> Here is what I can tell of what we're looking for:
>> * Job is in R&D organization in Palo Alto.
>> * Working languages are C, C++, and Python; the main language depends
>> on the project.
>> * Should be very comfortable developing on Linux.
>> * Demonstrated knowledge of OS kernel, device drivers, file system,
>> and/or networking is desirable.  Tinkering in FreeBSD or Linux kernel
>> code is a plus.
>>
>> Honestly, the current big need is for C.  But we're encouraged to be
>> fluent in all three listed above because projects come and go, and we
>> want to be nimble.  I currently do mostly Python and some C, but I
>> think that is about to flip for a while.
>>
>> We do lots and lots of code reviews.  I've been looking for a place
>> with people to constructively take my Python code apart.  I've found
>> it.
>>
>> I liked that "marginally Pythonic announcement" so much that I'm
>> posting my work e-mail address in a similar vein.
>> ---- cut here ----
>> eaddr = ''.join([chr(i) for i in (
>>     114,106,107,119,97,110,64,118,109,119,97,114,101,46,99,111,109)])
>> print eaddr
>> ---- cut here ----
>> Feel free to send me resumes and/or questions; I'll forward the
>> resumes to our in-house recruiter.
>>
>> --Rick Kwan
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>




From spmcinerney at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 11 22:18:27 2007
From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:18:27 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Plone changeover of
	http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone? Stale page.
Message-ID: <BAY111-W1621671DDF6703119A57FEA0A70@phx.gbl>


- The website http://www.baypiggies.net/ is pointing to the old August meeting.
- The new Plone http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone is pointing to the current October meeting.
but people would obviously go to the main (old) URL.

I thought we were going to change http://www.baypiggies.net over to the Plone one, to avoid this confusion?
Can we just finally flick the switch on this changeover? :)
I think everyone said yes that's fine.

Regards,
Stephen

PS (I actually did want to go there to double-check tonight's meeting details)

_________________________________________________________________
Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

From wescpy at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 00:10:58 2007
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:10:58 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Plone changeover of
	http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone? Stale page.
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-W1621671DDF6703119A57FEA0A70@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY111-W1621671DDF6703119A57FEA0A70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <78b3a9580710111510q73c3eec7g2b7b06c8db1eb8fa@mail.gmail.com>

> - The website http://www.baypiggies.net/ is pointing to the old August meeting.
> - The new Plone http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone is pointing to the current October meeting.
> but people would obviously go to the main (old) URL.
>
> I thought we were going to change http://www.baypiggies.net over to the Plone one, to avoid this confusion?
> Can we just finally flick the switch on this changeover? :)
> I think everyone said yes that's fine.


DONE

From bdbaddog at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 00:27:15 2007
From: bdbaddog at gmail.com (William Deegan)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:27:15 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Plone changeover of
	http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone? Stale page.
In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580710111510q73c3eec7g2b7b06c8db1eb8fa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY111-W1621671DDF6703119A57FEA0A70@phx.gbl>
	<78b3a9580710111510q73c3eec7g2b7b06c8db1eb8fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8540148a0710111527g37648813ga968967034ae14fd@mail.gmail.com>

All,

Just tried to create an account.. got the following message.
E-mail  (Required)
Enter an email address. This is necessary in case the password is
lost. We respect your privacy, and will not give the address away to
any third parties or expose it anywhere.
We were unable to send your password to your email address: (530,
'5.5.1 Authentication Required 7sm4248006agb', '"Portal Administrator"
<postmaster at localhost>')

I was trying to send email to :bdbaddog at gmail.com

-Bill

On 10/11/07, wesley chun <wescpy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > - The website http://www.baypiggies.net/ is pointing to the old August meeting.
> > - The new Plone http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone is pointing to the current October meeting.
> > but people would obviously go to the main (old) URL.
> >
> > I thought we were going to change http://www.baypiggies.net over to the Plone one, to avoid this confusion?
> > Can we just finally flick the switch on this changeover? :)
> > I think everyone said yes that's fine.
>
>
> DONE
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From spmcinerney at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 12 01:16:11 2007
From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:16:11 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Plone changeover
	of	http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone? Stale page.
In-Reply-To: <8540148a0710111527g37648813ga968967034ae14fd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY111-W1621671DDF6703119A57FEA0A70@phx.gbl>
	<78b3a9580710111510q73c3eec7g2b7b06c8db1eb8fa@mail.gmail.com> 
	<8540148a0710111527g37648813ga968967034ae14fd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W15E5C1221F5697ED9863F8A0A70@phx.gbl>


 
I believe the spamfilters on freemail providers tend to reject the mail, at least the first time or two.
This also happened to me several months ago when I first tried to register using Hotmail.
But I have since registered successfully on the nth try using Hotmail address.
(Donna, Wesley, can the verification mail be tweaked to not get blocked?)
 
Stephen> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:27:15 -0700> From: bdbaddog at gmail.com> To: wescpy at gmail.com> CC: baypiggies at python.org> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Plone changeover of http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone? Stale page.> > All,> > Just tried to create an account.. got the following message.> E-mail (Required)> Enter an email address. This is necessary in case the password is> lost. We respect your privacy, and will not give the address away to> any third parties or expose it anywhere.> We were unable to send your password to your email address: (530,> '5.5.1 Authentication Required 7sm4248006agb', '"Portal Administrator"> <postmaster at localhost>')> > I was trying to send email to :bdbaddog at gmail.com> > -Bill> > On 10/11/07, wesley chun <wescpy at gmail.com> wrote:> > > - The website http://www.baypiggies.net/ is pointing to the old August meeting.> > > - The new Plone http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone is pointing to the current October meeting.> > > but people would obviously go to the main (old) URL.> > >> > > I thought we were going to change http://www.baypiggies.net over to the Plone one, to avoid this confusion?> > > Can we just finally flick the switch on this changeover? :)> > > I think everyone said yes that's fine.> >> >> > DONE> > _______________________________________________> > Baypiggies mailing list> > Baypiggies at python.org> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies> >> _______________________________________________> Baypiggies mailing list> Baypiggies at python.org> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
_________________________________________________________________
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. Stop by today.
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Oct 12 00:38:29 2007
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:38:29 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Wanted: a few good C/C++/Python developers
In-Reply-To: <20071011101115.a88b5a45d4f18442e3264b556d999a36.49b02ea29e.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
References: <20071011101115.a88b5a45d4f18442e3264b556d999a36.49b02ea29e.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <20071011223829.GA27504@panix.com>

On Thu, Oct 11, 2007, bjorn at ambientchill.com wrote:
>
> Just as a disclaimer, I'm not interested in the job, I just have a
> question for Baypiggies related to this email. It seems like most jobs
> for Python require some kind of extensive C or C++ background. Is this
> true? I am a JavaScript developer and I'm happy with what I do, but
> someday, maybe in a few years, I wouldn't mind finding a Python
> development position.

My current job is rather jack-of-all-trades -- my company just hired its
tenth employee and I'm one of five developers.  We don't have any
sysadmins, so all devs do double-duty or more (I also do a lot of
front-line support, as do most of the devs).  The skills needed for a
developer in my company include:

Python
Linux sysadmin
SQL
HTML
JavaScript
Java

The HTML and JavaScript are mostly embedded in our ancient and somewhat
homebrewed web templating system.  There's also some ColdFusion.
Overall, to the extent that I spend my time programming rather than
support or QA or sysadmin or docs -- it's about 70% Python/SQL, 20%
templating, and 10% other stuff.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
to post the wrong information.

From wescpy at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 01:25:49 2007
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:25:49 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Plone changeover of
	http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone? Stale page.
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-W15E5C1221F5697ED9863F8A0A70@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY111-W1621671DDF6703119A57FEA0A70@phx.gbl>
	<78b3a9580710111510q73c3eec7g2b7b06c8db1eb8fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<8540148a0710111527g37648813ga968967034ae14fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<BAY111-W15E5C1221F5697ED9863F8A0A70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <78b3a9580710111625m4713f5b1uc02dd072d96de3d8@mail.gmail.com>

i don't have any sysadmin or root access on our hosted server.  i also
am not part of donna's plone dev team, so i don't know what is being
sent *to* whom *by* whom, nor do i know any of the SMTP AUTH info.

-wesley


>  I believe the spamfilters on freemail providers tend to reject the mail, at
> least the first time or two.
>         :
>  (Donna, Wesley, can the verification mail be tweaked to not get blocked?)
>
> > Just tried to create an account.. got the following message.
> > E-mail (Required)
> > Enter an email address. This is necessary in case the password is
> > lost. We respect your privacy, and will not give the address away to
> > any third parties or expose it anywhere.
> > We were unable to send your password to your email address: (530,
> > '5.5.1 Authentication Required 7sm4248006agb', '"Portal Administrator"
> > <postmaster at localhost>')

From alecf at flett.org  Fri Oct 12 01:45:49 2007
From: alecf at flett.org (Alec Flett)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:45:49 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python jobs at Metaweb/Freebase
Message-ID: <c78d65270710111645v12aed281mcf0195e605d7efaf@mail.gmail.com>

Hey folks -
I posted back in July about some Python jobs working on the Freebase
project. And yes, this particular job is not just Python - but in this case
it's JavaScript too, and you'll probably never have to write any Java or C.
That said, all of those languages are obviously a plus if you know 'em :)

Anyway, on with the job(s) ...

If you love Python and just thinking about considering that you might some
day get a new job, please check out http://www.freebase.com/ to see what
we're all about, then read on about the particulars...we're now fully open
to the public, no magic invitation codes required.

We have a bunch of Python-related jobs at http://www.metaweb.com/jobs/ that
cover all manner of data processing an such. But in particular I'm looking
to hire 2-3 people to work on my team working on the freebase.com site
itself. We run on Pylons (finally upgraded to 0.9.6.1 today) and are in the
process of building out new features on the site - everything from
discussion and community tools to large-scale data import and manipulation.

Our whole infrastructure is built around open-source tools and technologies
- Python and Pylons are just some of the parts. Linux, Apache, some MySQL,
and more.

We're especially looking for people who want to come and drive a
TDD/Agile/XP-style approach to development - i.e. teach us more about unit
tests, help build them into our libraries, etc. We're willing, we just don't
have a lot of experience in writing unit tests and functional tests.

Here's the job description for my team going up tonight - mention that you
saw this on BayPiggies and receive a free toaster. Or something.
----
Metaweb is looking for engineers to develop the web interface for
freebase.com. Much of our user interface is generated from database schemas
and we deal with enormous quantities of data so work is always challenging
and unique. We're not just throwing together database queries and page
templates to make a web site: we're trying to find new and innovative ways
of slicing and dicing more than 2 million records of very diverse data.

We develop primarily in Python and Javascript using the Pylons framework on
the server, and jQuery in the browser. We try to be active in these open
source communities and contribute when we can. We're supporters of the
ever-evolving WSGI standard and build many of our extensions as WSGI
middleware.

Not a Python developer? That's ok! Python is a living, mature language that
has evolved and innovated over its 16 year lifespan. As a result, it shares
many of the best features of other modern languages including Ruby, PHP, and
Java. If you have familiarity in any of these languages, you'll be able to
start coding immediately! And if you know with Ruby on Rails, then you'll
fit right in - Pylons borrows many ideas from Rails, and has some
interesting new innovations as well.

If working on bleeding edge web application development with Python and
Javascript is your idea of a good time, you're going to love working at
Metaweb. We are solving hard problems, and we're having a lot of fun doing
it. Join us.
Good candidates will have experience with:

   - Object-oriented programming
   - Server-side development using Python, Ruby on Rails, PHP, or Java.
   - Client-side development using JavaScript, CSS, DHTML, DOM, XHR, etc
   - Cross browser compatibility quirks including DOM and CSS issues
   - Experience with a JavaScript framework like jQuery, Prototype, Ext,
   or Dojo.

The best candidates will have experience with:

   - Python web-application frameworks like Pylons, TurboGears or Django
   - Specific experience using and extending the jQuery Javascript
   library
   - Architectural issues that affect performance and scalability of web
   sites - caching with memcache and/or squid, HTTP server experience with
   Apache, Lighttpd, Twisted, etc

Instructions To apply for this position, submit your resume in plain text or
HTML to jobs at metaweb.com.


Alec
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From bjorn at ambientchill.com  Fri Oct 12 06:54:28 2007
From: bjorn at ambientchill.com (bjorn at ambientchill.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:54:28 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Windmill
Message-ID: <20071011215428.a88b5a45d4f18442e3264b556d999a36.ac5f62d61d.wbe@email.secureserver.net>

Hi,

Windmill looked pretty awesome. This was probably covered, but how does
it tell communicate with the browser to simulate drag and drop and such?
I'm definitely going to install it and see if I can put it to use. I
thought it was an interesting presentation. 

Bjorn


From wescpy at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 01:37:50 2007
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:37:50 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Wanted: a few good C/C++/Python developers
In-Reply-To: <20071011223829.GA27504@panix.com>
References: <20071011101115.a88b5a45d4f18442e3264b556d999a36.49b02ea29e.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
	<20071011223829.GA27504@panix.com>
Message-ID: <78b3a9580710111637j7e170413t306a3b8da1c03996@mail.gmail.com>

my company also has some various engr roles open.  for the development
positions, we, of course, are primarily a Python shop, but we like to
see C/C++ on resumes not because you may be using those tools here,
but that you've been on the memory mgmt train before and will not be
sloppy with your Python.  having Java, Perl, PHP, Ruby, etc., won't
hurt as long as you also have had C/C++ too.

let me know if you or anyone u guys know who are interested in a hot
start-up down here in the lower peninsula at the los altos - palo alto
- mtn view tri-city border near the corner of san antonio and el
camino. the caltrain station is about 15-20min walk away.  we just got
our Series B a few months ago (DFJ)
http://mashable.com/2007/04/24/tripit-nearbynow-casttv

- operations: sys adminish, CentOS/RHEL, win32, mac os X, rack'em and
stack'em at colo in santa clara, monitoring, building servers and
imaging their disks, VOIP system, etc

- data mining: website crawling, data feed processing, parsing (XML, CSV, etc.)

- search: relevance, natural language, stemming, database indexing,
any kind of search engine experience (lucene, xapian, etc.), ORMs

- webUI: hardcore JS, Ajax, JSON, mootools/jQuery/Dojo, CherryPy, Cheetah

our main product is a google-type search engine on top of shopping
malls... we've already "assimilated" about 100 around the US this past
summer and plan to double that b4 the holiday season:
http://www.nearbynow.com/expansion.html
we are not an online shopping search engine like pricegrabber, nextag,
or shopping.com.  we are the sole leaders in the market that focuses
on shoppers who research online but buy offline, which is (believe it
or not) more than half of all shoppers PERIOD:
http://www.nearbynow.com/internet.html

we only have 15 ppl right now, still near groundfloor for getting
decent equity share with good benefits plus employee perks!  when is
the last time you have found a pure development (non-QA,
non-framework) position that was all Python (except maybe YouTube)?
the founders IPOd with e.phiphany and Loudcloud as well as with
shopping.com (acq by eBay). contact me privately if you or someone you
know is looking!! ping me ASAP as we're planning on filling this
positions quickly!  my work e-mail is wesc at nearbynow dot com.

-wesley

From adam at osafoundation.org  Fri Oct 12 20:43:51 2007
From: adam at osafoundation.org (Adam Christian)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:43:51 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Windmill
Message-ID: <544D5088-21C6-467E-9C41-4FE2F390FFDF@osafoundation.org>

Sorry about the email weirdness here, I had to subscribe to the list  
to respond.

The architecture that we use to do the drag and drop works as follows:

The service gives the windmill IDE a locator for the element to be  
dragged and the destination of where to drag it, we then compute the  
offsets, then we use the offsets and a mousemove event to get the  
cursor over the element and do a mousedown. We then do another  
mousemove to the calculated coordinates of the destination element  
and do a mouseup, letting go of the div (our drop).

Right now there is a function in the windmill controller which allows  
you to pass a function along with your start element and destination  
element, called windmill.controller.dragDrop.

I plan to put in a few hours this weekend to implement a generic drag  
drop function into the record that would allow you to record a drag  
drop motion against a page with no offsets that would work for the  
most basic scenarios. The next iteration of this would be allowing  
you to do your recording against a simple page, then pass offset  
values or a function of offsets to make everything work correctly  
against a more complex page.

There are instructions on how to write an extension to windmill here:
http://windmill.osafoundation.org/trac/wiki/BookChapter-7-Extensions

An example of our Cosmo specific drag drop (which has to pull ID's  
dynamically from a javascript hash):
http://windmill.osafoundation.org/trac/browser/windmill/trunk/ 
windmill/js/extensions/extensions.js

line 56, function windmill.controller.extensions.cosmoDragDrop

Hopefully this helps, and I will post again when I have more in the  
way of an out of the box drag drop recorder in the trunk.

Thanks for your interest,

Adam


____
Hi,

Windmill looked pretty awesome. This was probably covered, but how does
it tell communicate with the browser to simulate drag and drop and such?
I'm definitely going to install it and see if I can put it to use. I
thought it was an interesting presentation.

Bjorn
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From alexmac at exdir.com  Tue Oct 16 01:27:39 2007
From: alexmac at exdir.com (Alex Macmillan)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:27:39 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] (FTE job) Python developer for entertainment company,
	San Francisco CA
Message-ID: <AACB74C3345F8E47A281D83EDD52E25BC7987A@edi-mail.exdir.com>

My client is a leading entertainment company in San Francisco CA,
seeking a seasoned PYTHON DEVELOPER to work on proprietary software
accessing Oracle. Your focus will be on artist and production-related
tools. You should have experience in and enjoy working in a fast-paced
production environment. If this isn't for you, we do offer a referral
bonus for successful placements.

Technical skills required:
5 yrs+ software development
Python
SQL
Oracle / DB skills
UNIX
GUI development
Enterprise Application Development (nice to have)

You should have excellent communication skills, and be happy with
multi-tasking. This is a permanent position, and the salary package is
negotiable.

Thank you!
Alex Macmillan 
Resource Manager 
San Francisco, CA 
415.394.5500 x 227 
866.620.4300 
www.exdir.com
___________________________________________
Executive Direction Inc

From glen.jarvis at homegain.com  Tue Oct 16 01:17:26 2007
From: glen.jarvis at homegain.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:17:26 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Difficulty signing up at site
In-Reply-To: <498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706F6771E@ex1.homegain.com>
References: <498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706F012A3@ex1.homegain.com>
	<498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706F013E7@ex1.homegain.com>
	<498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706F01446@ex1.homegain.com>
	<498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706F6771E@ex1.homegain.com>
Message-ID: <498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706F6772D@ex1.homegain.com>

I have a coworker who was very interested in getting on baypigge.net. I
explained how incredibly helpful and interesting the meeting was last
week. However, she is having a difficult time with the site. Please feel
free to reply-all or copy and paste the CC information to work with her
directly.

 

Thanks again!

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

Glen

 

 

 

From: Nora Xagoraris 
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 4:05 PM
To: Glen Jarvis
Subject: RE: Technical: Windmill (UI testing interface) presentation at
Bay Area Python Interest Group

 

Hey Glen,

 

Were you able to register as a new user on http://baypiggies.net
<http://baypiggies.net/> ?  I tried to register several times with
different email addresses and I keep getting the same messages below!

 

You have been registered.

Please enter a valid email address.

 

I even tried to contact them to report this and got a n error message as
well!

 

- Nora.

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From jjinux at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 03:10:33 2007
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:10:33 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Difficulty signing up at site
In-Reply-To: <498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706F6772D@ex1.homegain.com>
References: <498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706F012A3@ex1.homegain.com>
	<498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706F013E7@ex1.homegain.com>
	<498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706F01446@ex1.homegain.com>
	<498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706F6771E@ex1.homegain.com>
	<498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706F6772D@ex1.homegain.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90710151810n3c907d74yab94a5451ab7322b@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/15/07, Glen Jarvis <glen.jarvis at homegain.com> wrote:
> I have a coworker who was very interested in getting on baypigge.net. I
> explained how incredibly helpful and interesting the meeting was last week.
> However, she is having a difficult time with the site. Please feel free to
> reply-all or copy and paste the CC information to work with her directly.

The URL is actually http://baypiggies.net/new/plone.  You *don't* have
to sign up on the Web site in order to view the Web site, chat on this
mailing list, or go to meetings.

Here's the URL to join the mailing list:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

Best Regards,
-jj

-- 
I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 03:11:58 2007
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:11:58 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Difficulty signing up at site
In-Reply-To: <498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706F6772D@ex1.homegain.com>
References: <498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706F012A3@ex1.homegain.com>
	<498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706F013E7@ex1.homegain.com>
	<498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706F01446@ex1.homegain.com>
	<498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706F6771E@ex1.homegain.com>
	<498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE45706F6772D@ex1.homegain.com>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0710151811h69a5ba48ha77516d3b48ebae4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

We are working on the email issue.. my understanding is we don't have
an email account with Webfaction.. which is what we need so we can use
the smtp to setup the Plone Mailhost...

Nora.. try again..only this time.. don't check the "send mail with
password" and we'll get this worked out.

Thank You

Donna


On 10/15/07, Glen Jarvis <glen.jarvis at homegain.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I have a coworker who was very interested in getting on baypigge.net. I
> explained how incredibly helpful and interesting the meeting was last week.
> However, she is having a difficult time with the site. Please feel free to
> reply-all or copy and paste the CC information to work with her directly.
>
>
>
> Thanks again!
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
>
>
> Glen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Nora Xagoraris
>  Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 4:05 PM
>  To: Glen Jarvis
>  Subject: RE: Technical: Windmill (UI testing interface) presentation at Bay
> Area Python Interest Group
>
>
>
> Hey Glen,
>
>
>
> Were you able to register as a new user on http://baypiggies.net?  I tried
> to register several times with different email addresses and I keep getting
> the same messages below!
>
>
>
> You have been registered.
>
> Please enter a valid email address.
>
>
>
> I even tried to contact them to report this and got a n error message as
> well!
>
>
>
> - Nora.
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From jjinux at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 03:12:45 2007
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:12:45 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] (FTE job) Python developer for entertainment
	company, San Francisco CA
In-Reply-To: <AACB74C3345F8E47A281D83EDD52E25BC7987A@edi-mail.exdir.com>
References: <AACB74C3345F8E47A281D83EDD52E25BC7987A@edi-mail.exdir.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90710151812v412e1369vad3efc9e3fe5ad1a@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Alex,

The job advertisement policy is here: http://baypiggies.net/jobs.html

Please note that only principals are allowed to post job listings.
Recruiters are not allowed unless they are in-house.

Best Regards,
-jj

On 10/15/07, Alex Macmillan <alexmac at exdir.com> wrote:
> My client is a leading entertainment company in San Francisco CA,
> seeking a seasoned PYTHON DEVELOPER to work on proprietary software
> accessing Oracle. Your focus will be on artist and production-related
> tools. You should have experience in and enjoy working in a fast-paced
> production environment. If this isn't for you, we do offer a referral
> bonus for successful placements.
>
> Technical skills required:
> 5 yrs+ software development
> Python
> SQL
> Oracle / DB skills
> UNIX
> GUI development
> Enterprise Application Development (nice to have)
>
> You should have excellent communication skills, and be happy with
> multi-tasking. This is a permanent position, and the salary package is
> negotiable.
>
> Thank you!
> Alex Macmillan
> Resource Manager
> San Francisco, CA
> 415.394.5500 x 227
> 866.620.4300
> www.exdir.com
> ___________________________________________
> Executive Direction Inc
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


-- 
I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From guido at python.org  Tue Oct 16 04:10:29 2007
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:10:29 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] (FTE job) Python developer for entertainment
	company, San Francisco CA
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90710151812v412e1369vad3efc9e3fe5ad1a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AACB74C3345F8E47A281D83EDD52E25BC7987A@edi-mail.exdir.com>
	<c41f67b90710151812v412e1369vad3efc9e3fe5ad1a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ca471dc20710151910x2e5f9b57u5a8088daba17b60c@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry. I sent Alex here. My mistake.

On 10/15/07, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Alex,
>
> The job advertisement policy is here: http://baypiggies.net/jobs.html
>
> Please note that only principals are allowed to post job listings.
> Recruiters are not allowed unless they are in-house.
>
> Best Regards,
> -jj
>
> On 10/15/07, Alex Macmillan <alexmac at exdir.com> wrote:
> > My client is a leading entertainment company in San Francisco CA,
> > seeking a seasoned PYTHON DEVELOPER to work on proprietary software
> > accessing Oracle. Your focus will be on artist and production-related
> > tools. You should have experience in and enjoy working in a fast-paced
> > production environment. If this isn't for you, we do offer a referral
> > bonus for successful placements.
> >
> > Technical skills required:
> > 5 yrs+ software development
> > Python
> > SQL
> > Oracle / DB skills
> > UNIX
> > GUI development
> > Enterprise Application Development (nice to have)
> >
> > You should have excellent communication skills, and be happy with
> > multi-tasking. This is a permanent position, and the salary package is
> > negotiable.
> >
> > Thank you!
> > Alex Macmillan
> > Resource Manager
> > San Francisco, CA
> > 415.394.5500 x 227
> > 866.620.4300
> > www.exdir.com
> > ___________________________________________
> > Executive Direction Inc
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
>
>
> --
> I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

From jjinux at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 09:19:25 2007
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:19:25 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] (FTE job) Python developer for entertainment
	company, San Francisco CA
In-Reply-To: <ca471dc20710151910x2e5f9b57u5a8088daba17b60c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AACB74C3345F8E47A281D83EDD52E25BC7987A@edi-mail.exdir.com>
	<c41f67b90710151812v412e1369vad3efc9e3fe5ad1a@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca471dc20710151910x2e5f9b57u5a8088daba17b60c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90710160019t63b3d673jefc94fdf9376b3e1@mail.gmail.com>

No worries.  The easiest way to get around this rule is to simply have
the hiring manager himself send the email.

Best Regards,
-jj

On 10/15/07, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
> Sorry. I sent Alex here. My mistake.
>
> On 10/15/07, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Dear Alex,
> >
> > The job advertisement policy is here: http://baypiggies.net/jobs.html
> >
> > Please note that only principals are allowed to post job listings.
> > Recruiters are not allowed unless they are in-house.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > -jj
> >
> > On 10/15/07, Alex Macmillan <alexmac at exdir.com> wrote:
> > > My client is a leading entertainment company in San Francisco CA,
> > > seeking a seasoned PYTHON DEVELOPER to work on proprietary software
> > > accessing Oracle. Your focus will be on artist and production-related
> > > tools. You should have experience in and enjoy working in a fast-paced
> > > production environment. If this isn't for you, we do offer a referral
> > > bonus for successful placements.
> > >
> > > Technical skills required:
> > > 5 yrs+ software development
> > > Python
> > > SQL
> > > Oracle / DB skills
> > > UNIX
> > > GUI development
> > > Enterprise Application Development (nice to have)
> > >
> > > You should have excellent communication skills, and be happy with
> > > multi-tasking. This is a permanent position, and the salary package is
> > > negotiable.
> > >
> > > Thank you!
> > > Alex Macmillan
> > > Resource Manager
> > > San Francisco, CA
> > > 415.394.5500 x 227
> > > 866.620.4300
> > > www.exdir.com
> > > ___________________________________________
> > > Executive Direction Inc
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Baypiggies mailing list
> > > Baypiggies at python.org
> > > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
> > http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
>
>
> --
> --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
>


-- 
I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From afife at untangle.com  Tue Oct 16 09:29:42 2007
From: afife at untangle.com (Andrew Fife)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:29:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baypiggies] BALUG Dinner Tonight (Open Source Backup & Recovery)
Message-ID: <005301c80fc6$3b8bfb70$4301a8c0@Untangle.local>

Howdy Folks:

The Bay Area Linux Users Group (BALUG) is hosting a great talk tonight
(10/16) titled "Open Source Backup with Amanda" by the project's
co-Founder, Paddy Sreenivasan.  Paddy will explain how Amanda is
different, the projects current status and why Linux users should consider
deploying it.  

**************************************************************************
**
RSVP at BALUG.ORG - RSVPs are not mandatory, but they do help us out a lot
**************************************************************************
**

6:30PM
October 16th, 2007 (Tonight!!!)
Four Seas Restaurant
731 Grant Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94108
www.balug.org

**************************************************************************
**COST: The event is free. However, dinner is $13 for those that want to
eat.
**************************************************************************
**

About Amanda:  
--------------
Amanda is the worlds most popular open source backup and recovery
software. Amanda protects over 500,000 systems running Linux, UNIX, OS-X &
Windows.  Paddy Sreenivasan is the co-founder & VP Engineering of Amanda's
commercial twin, Zmanda.  http://amanda.zmanda.com


About BALUG: 
--------------
BALUG is lively gathering of Linux users & free software enthusiasts that
combines great food, community & intimate access to featured speakers.  We
meet in the bar of the Four Seas Restaurant from 6:30pm.  At 7pm, we share
a family-style Chinese dinner, which is followed by our guest speaker.
http://www.balug.org    

I hope to see you there!

Andrew

********************************************
Andrew Fife
Untange - Open Source Security Gateway
download.untangle.com

650.425.3327 (O)
415.806.6028 (C)
afife at untangle.com 



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Oct 16 21:06:45 2007
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 12:06:45 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] PyCon: Call for proposals/tutorials
Message-ID: <20071016190645.GA25586@panix.com>

http://pycon.blogspot.com/2007/10/call-for-talk-tutorial-proposals.html
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
to post the wrong information.

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Oct 20 17:26:32 2007
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 08:26:32 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] PyCon 2010
Message-ID: <20071020152632.GA13878@panix.com>

I can't remember offhand who was trying to run a PyCon bid for 2008 (and
don't have time to hunt right now), so I'll just post to the list that
the current plan seems to be to have PyCon 2009 in Chicago again -- but
that the bid for PyCon 2010 will likely be selected at PyCon 2008.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
to post the wrong information.

From rdm at cfcl.com  Mon Oct 22 16:21:11 2007
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:21:11 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] BASS Meeting (SF), Wed. October 24
Message-ID: <p06230907c333f1d41f2d@[192.168.1.205]>

The Beer and Scripting SIG rides again!  If you'd like to
eat good Italian food, chat with other local scripters,
and possibly take a look at laptop-demoed scripting hacks,
this is the place to do it!

For your convenience, here are the critical details:

  Date:   Wednesday, October 24, 2007 (4th. Wed.)
  Time:   8:00 pm
  Place:  Pasquales Pizzeria
          701 Irving St. (At 8th. Ave.)
          San Francisco, California, USA
          415/661-2140

See the BASS web page for more information:

  http://cfcl.com/rdm/bass/

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From jim at well.com  Tue Oct 23 01:16:24 2007
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:16:24 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] call for speakers, especially re concurrency
Message-ID: <af95b27006c30da948ac08b6ddab96b1@well.com>


bayPIGgies needs speakers.

    Recently our email list had a couple of great threads:
* Guido's Blog: It isn't Easy to Remove the GIL
* Concurrency Talk
    controlling what code runs on which CPU is a hot topic
in the industry these days. bayPIGgies members seem to
have a lot of interest and various expertise. It would be a
great topic for one of our meetings. Let me know your
interest in the topic and even in speaking.

    Let me know if you've got topics in mind, whether or not
you would like to present them as a featured speaker.

    What's going on in the Python mines of Google and
Ironport and other Python shops?


From joshua.gallagher at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 05:53:28 2007
From: joshua.gallagher at gmail.com (Joshua Gallagher)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:53:28 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] call for speakers, especially re concurrency
In-Reply-To: <af95b27006c30da948ac08b6ddab96b1@well.com>
References: <af95b27006c30da948ac08b6ddab96b1@well.com>
Message-ID: <9bb4e5be0710222053k11ada066x51dacfd9d310538c@mail.gmail.com>

I won't speak for anyone else, but I would find any discussion, where
threads are a topic, to be extremely beneficial. Especially useful
would be an introduction or general review of threaded
programming--one with lots of examples :-)--targeted to those who are
fluent and active users of Python.

Python is the first language that I have done any substantial
development in, and I love it. But I find the topic of threading in
general to be a bit intimidating and one where I find that many of the
implementation details and best practices are a bit like tribal
knowledge.

Perhaps as a precursor to more advanced topics on the GIL,
concurrency, etc., such an introduction on the application of
threading in Python programming may be useful for the group.

Joshua


On 10/22/07, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
> bayPIGgies needs speakers.
>
>    Recently our email list had a couple of great threads:
> * Guido's Blog: It isn't Easy to Remove the GIL
> * Concurrency Talk
>    controlling what code runs on which CPU is a hot topic
> in the industry these days. bayPIGgies members seem to
> have a lot of interest and various expertise. It would be a
> great topic for one of our meetings. Let me know your
> interest in the topic and even in speaking.
>
>    Let me know if you've got topics in mind, whether or not
> you would like to present them as a featured speaker.
>
>    What's going on in the Python mines of Google and
> Ironport and other Python shops?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Oct 23 16:30:06 2007
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:30:06 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] call for speakers, especially re concurrency
In-Reply-To: <9bb4e5be0710222053k11ada066x51dacfd9d310538c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <af95b27006c30da948ac08b6ddab96b1@well.com>
	<9bb4e5be0710222053k11ada066x51dacfd9d310538c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071023143006.GA10017@panix.com>

On Mon, Oct 22, 2007, Joshua Gallagher wrote:
>
> I won't speak for anyone else, but I would find any discussion, where
> threads are a topic, to be extremely beneficial. Especially useful
> would be an introduction or general review of threaded
> programming--one with lots of examples :-)--targeted to those who are
> fluent and active users of Python.

Well, I can certainly do that.  Either November or December works for me;
January/February are not available.

NOTE: I know I said this before, but I wanted to repeat for emphasis, I
haven't actually done any threaded programming for years now and I'm
rather rusty; I would be relying on my notes still being correct from my
presentations for OSCON/PyCon, and I would not be able to answer any
complicated questions.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
to post the wrong information.

From charles.merriam at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 17:06:36 2007
From: charles.merriam at gmail.com (Charles Merriam)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:06:36 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] call for speakers, especially re concurrency
In-Reply-To: <af95b27006c30da948ac08b6ddab96b1@well.com>
References: <af95b27006c30da948ac08b6ddab96b1@well.com>
Message-ID: <b8c6f6c40710230806u35b4fdedg3b176f9b572ca988@mail.gmail.com>

Hmmm...

I could talk about programming the One-Laptop-Per-Child computer, the
XO.  This is a sweet little machine that is expected to ship with a
full Python environment.  Given rumors, there may some folks at Google
who have been deep in the guts and could give a better talk.   A short
talk could walk people through the API world for a couple short
programs, show the developer tools, and what not.

Off hand, I'm not sure what deep technical nuggets would be in the
talk.  It would be more along the lines of "Here's how to use
GStreamer for video", and "How the XO does internationalization", and
"How to work in mesh networking or 802.11s".

The XO will have shipped and be in people's hands in time for a
January meeting.  I think it should be done in either January or
February before the sexiness of the new toy fades.   I have no
investment that the talk should come from me, and would enjoy teaming
up with others that are hacking on XOs.  A format of several
informative show-and-tells could add the most signal per time.

Charles




On 10/22/07, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
> bayPIGgies needs speakers.
>
>     Recently our email list had a couple of great threads:
> * Guido's Blog: It isn't Easy to Remove the GIL
> * Concurrency Talk
>     controlling what code runs on which CPU is a hot topic
> in the industry these days. bayPIGgies members seem to
> have a lot of interest and various expertise. It would be a
> great topic for one of our meetings. Let me know your
> interest in the topic and even in speaking.
>
>     Let me know if you've got topics in mind, whether or not
> you would like to present them as a featured speaker.
>
>     What's going on in the Python mines of Google and
> Ironport and other Python shops?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From adamlulvi at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 23 22:51:24 2007
From: adamlulvi at yahoo.com (Adam Ulvi)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:51:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baypiggies] call for speakers, especially re concurrency
Message-ID: <687724.36462.qm@web30701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm still a python noob, but would be interesting hearing more about:

 o Basic threaded programming (I'm forking tired of forking)
 o PyGame
 o Web programming (what is CherryPy? Pylons? <insert framework buzzword here>
 o Web service creation and consumption
 o Any type of GUI programming in Python

Thanks :-)
- A


----- Original Message ----
From: jim stockford <jim at well.com>
To: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 4:16:24 PM
Subject: [Baypiggies] call for speakers, especially re concurrency



bayPIGgies needs speakers.

    Recently our email list had a couple of great threads:
* Guido's Blog: It isn't Easy to Remove the GIL
* Concurrency Talk
    controlling what code runs on which CPU is a hot topic
in the industry these days. bayPIGgies members seem to
have a lot of interest and various expertise. It would be a
great topic for one of our meetings. Let me know your
interest in the topic and even in speaking.

    Let me know if you've got topics in mind, whether or not
you would like to present them as a featured speaker.

    What's going on in the Python mines of Google and
Ironport and other Python shops?

_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
Baypiggies at python.org
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 20:26:34 2007
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:26:34 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Volunteer wanted to write a book review for BayPiggies
	& Oreilly
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0710251126y16f0a3eap8c5a010b95d4a1c8@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Everyone,


Would anyone like to write a review for Learning Python: Third
Edition, from Oreilly?
http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=1&auth=DQAAAHUAAAD-PR-W3X2XZ7wzTuTrVGDjawr4ZLi-su9sc78uNBpPXmFkkjbclY_O6aupT6SMkS77c-DVp_yk62j-NBASQXw0l_hY05MSUCjdBy_dhYsAuf-fF7TyLHoExylg5xAoqOmlGzIqn51AGv-wMEmrhGjjYZ0qOVRAXKY1VKAI1NjFsw

You may keep the book after the review is written.

Please reply off-list.

Thanks

Tony

From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 20:29:39 2007
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:29:39 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Volunteer wanted to write a book review for BayPiggies
	& Oreilly (repost with valid URL)
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0710251129w6820bd5ap2debe378e877705@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Everyone,

My apologies for the bad URL in the previous message.
Below is the real link for Learning Python, 3rd Edition.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596513986/?CMP=EMC-newpr0d&ATT=9780596513986title

Would anyone like to write a review for Learning Python: Third
Edition, from Oreilly?

You may keep the book after the review is written.

Please reply off-list.

Thanks

Tony

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Oct 25 21:19:57 2007
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:19:57 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
Message-ID: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>

I'm still willing to do a November talk about threads, but the window is
closing before other commitments will swamp it -- someone please make a
decision by mid-day Sunday if possible.  (December is still possible;
Jan/Feb are still unavailable.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
to post the wrong information.

From charles.merriam at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 21:21:22 2007
From: charles.merriam at gmail.com (Charles Merriam)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:21:22 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] FYI, website email broken..
Message-ID: <b8c6f6c40710251221q2cc90c10w5003e37436cdb56f@mail.gmail.com>

Actions from the baypiggies website appear to be broken.

In a "Join" form, I get this error:
We were unable to send your password to your email address: (530,
'5.5.1 Authentication Required 11sm3708788wrl', '"Portal
Administrator" <postmaster at localhost>')
for a field of charles.merriam at gmail.com

And reporting it with the 'contact us' form gives:
Unable to send mail: Invalid email address: postmaster at localhost

Aren't content managers fun!
Charles

From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 22:36:43 2007
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:36:43 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] FYI, website email broken..
In-Reply-To: <b8c6f6c40710251221q2cc90c10w5003e37436cdb56f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b8c6f6c40710251221q2cc90c10w5003e37436cdb56f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0710251336j33a3b77j2248ab51942ad74c@mail.gmail.com>

we need the Mailhost setup.. once that's done.. no more issues... I'll
look at it this weekend.. unless someone else wants to login there and
see if they can get it working..
we need a valid smtp host..

Donna

On 10/25/07, Charles Merriam <charles.merriam at gmail.com> wrote:
> Actions from the baypiggies website appear to be broken.
>
> In a "Join" form, I get this error:
> We were unable to send your password to your email address: (530,
> '5.5.1 Authentication Required 11sm3708788wrl', '"Portal
> Administrator" <postmaster at localhost>')
> for a field of charles.merriam at gmail.com
>
> And reporting it with the 'contact us' form gives:
> Unable to send mail: Invalid email address: postmaster at localhost
>
> Aren't content managers fun!
> Charles
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From jjinux at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 00:33:35 2007
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:33:35 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/25/07, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> I'm still willing to do a November talk about threads, but the window is
> closing before other commitments will swamp it -- someone please make a
> decision by mid-day Sunday if possible.  (December is still possible;
> Jan/Feb are still unavailable.)

As much as I'd like to finally meet Aahz in person, I'd still really
like to see a breadth-first talk providing an overview of a bunch of
different topics such as:

* Threads.
* Processes.
* Asynchronous IO.
* Stackless.
* Coroutines.
* Erlang's approach.

Threads are cool, but they're a gigantic pain ;)

-jj

-- 
I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From aleax at google.com  Fri Oct 26 01:08:15 2007
From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:08:15 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55dc209b0710251608n68face16i738a73f5c84cea99@mail.gmail.com>

Getting a bit too close to the Nov meeting for such a "breadth-first talk"
to be prepared, though.  Jim asked me a week ago to present essentially the
same talk I'd given at ACCU on Nov 8, and I said I was fine as long as I
could subset it (basically down to "callbacks, variations thereon and some
of their ecosystem") because the amount of material I had attempted to cover
at ACCU had proven far too much for 2 hours (and Baypiggies' talks are
shorter than that).  And even the full ACCU talk didn't touch on all the
issues you want (e.g., no Erlang -- and only a part of async I/O, no mention
of the gyrations you need on Windows to do _general_ async I/O there).

I'm quite happy to let Aahz talk instead (I can talk in Dec, Jan, or
whenever) if that's preferred, though I think my talk might be more
elementary (but also more generic/abstract/less task-oriented) than Aahz's.
Who decides? Shall we toss a coin?-)


Alex

On 10/25/07, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 10/25/07, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> > I'm still willing to do a November talk about threads, but the window is
> > closing before other commitments will swamp it -- someone please make a
> > decision by mid-day Sunday if possible.  (December is still possible;
> > Jan/Feb are still unavailable.)
>
> As much as I'd like to finally meet Aahz in person, I'd still really
> like to see a breadth-first talk providing an overview of a bunch of
> different topics such as:
>
> * Threads.
> * Processes.
> * Asynchronous IO.
> * Stackless.
> * Coroutines.
> * Erlang's approach.
>
> Threads are cool, but they're a gigantic pain ;)
>
> -jj
>
> --
> I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Oct 26 01:26:44 2007
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:26:44 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071025232644.GA28297@panix.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2007, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> 
> As much as I'd like to finally meet Aahz in person, I'd still really
> like to see a breadth-first talk providing an overview of a bunch of
> different topics such as:
> 
> * Threads.
> * Processes.
> * Asynchronous IO.
> * Stackless.
> * Coroutines.
> * Erlang's approach.

IMO, covering all of those is essentially impossible in a single
BayPIGgies meeting unless you use a hand-waving approach instead of
technical detail.  (Or just power through the presentation without taking
any questions, but such a presentation would only really be intelligible
to people already familiar with the material.)  IIRC, we previously
suggested doing two of these per meeting for a breadth-oriented approach.

Concurrent programming in general is hard.  Really really difficult.
>From my POV, it's overall better to cover individual topics in some
depth and let people learn enough to make their own decisions.

> Threads are cool, but they're a gigantic pain ;)

Not if you follow a few simple rules....  (But that's what my talk is all
about. ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
to post the wrong information.

From shansen at vmware.com  Fri Oct 26 02:04:47 2007
From: shansen at vmware.com (Steve Hansen (c))
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 17:04:47 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] VMWare--CPD, Install Winning Opportunities!!
References: <3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C291D4F@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C291D50@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C291D89@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C291EBF@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DAC9@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DACC@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DB50@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DB51@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DB57@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DC4C@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DC81@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DC82@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DC84@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DC85@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DC8C@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DCE4@PA-EXCH0 3.vmware
	.com> <3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DCE6@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DCE9@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DCEA@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DCEB@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DD15@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DD16@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DD23@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DD47@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DD48@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DDD7@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DEF5@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DEF7@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79E09C@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79E137@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79E13C@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79E1DE@PA-EXCH03.vmw are.com> 
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79E1EF@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79E1F0@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
Message-ID: <3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79E1F2@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>

Dear fellow members of Bay Area Python Interest Group,
 
I am a recruiter at VMWare.   We have many openings for Python
programmers-developers.
I send out this email to interested parties, below.
 
Thanks,
Steve
 
Python is necessary.   We need Linux O.S. knowledge.  Red Hat Package Manager
is great! or  Solaris Package, Suse Package.
The description is below.
 
How much Python, do you have, months, years?  
How current are you in it?
How strong are you in Python?
 
How much experience do you have in a package manager, and which ones, have
you used?
RPM, SUSE, or Solaris Package Manager?
If you don't have experience in these, we allow you  to learn them in time.
 
Please let me know, if you are interested in it.  It is also, a hub group,
having to deal with all the technologies, and development groups we have at
VMWare.  We do 3-4--6 month releases for new functionality/new features, as
well as work with other core technology groups, to do joint 16--18 months
releases.

We are the only team, that supports the entire product line.   We get to
know, the whole product/project, and not just a small piece of it.

So, you are Not going to be pidgeonholed into one area, you get to be in a
broad technology role, the product line is All NEW!!

 

   You'll get to learn the whole product.  We're the HUB, of all of VMWare!!!

    High Visibility!!  

 

This is one the serious Top Visible Initiatives--Efforts in VMWare.

Candidates have to be aware of CPD needs, can see the opportunities are
infinite!!

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=VMW

 
Please send me a copy of your resume.   I'll submit it to my hiring technical
manager.

 
Thanks,
Steve
 
Steve Hansen
Sr. Technical Recruiter
VMware, Inc.
shansen at vmware.com
408-946-0317
 
 

  MTS - Software Engineer - Install      6703    

 

VMware is look for talented software engineers to be key members of a
start-up engineering team. This role will develop and support the ESX
Linux-based Console Operating System (COS). This operating system serves as a
base for the ESX server and a platform for third party management agents. 

Responsibilities 

- Troubleshoot and resolve issues with installation, upgrade and support
utilities in multiple releases. 
- Isolate problems which involve working across multiple components within
the ESX product. 
- Communicate effectively with multiple groups in the course of performing
the above functions. 
- Design and implement new features or enhancements to the existing products.




Requirements 

- Expertise with installing, administering, troubleshooting, and developing
software for the Linux operating system. 
-Strong multi-layer development and debugging skills across: library and
application layers. 
- Proficiency in Python, Perl, and shell scripting. 
- The ability to debug some C code, but more-so Python and Perl, Makefiles,
and other scripting and programming languages. 
- Knowledge of RPM (Red Hat Package Manager) best practices, as well as RPM
install scripts, SPEC files, and development libraries.

Otherwise:

Solaris Package or Suse Package, Install Shield.

We are using Python to build our new features, functions, and installation
SW.

 

 


From jim at well.com  Fri Oct 26 03:05:19 2007
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:05:19 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <55dc209b0710251608n68face16i738a73f5c84cea99@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
	<55dc209b0710251608n68face16i738a73f5c84cea99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <567d7c6a1110b20f406c07e872c029e5@well.com>


    who decides? certainly not me--should be some kind
of group concensus or vote.
    that said, alex had agreed to speak in november, and
many thanks, by the way. Aahz can speak either in
november or december (as can alex). i cannot see any
particular dependency that would dictate order. my
notion of default is to keep alex for november and book
aahz for december.
    what say?
+1 alex november, aahz december
0 don't care
-1 aahz november, alex december


On Oct 25, 2007, at 4:08 PM, Alex Martelli wrote:

> Getting a bit too close to the Nov meeting for such a "breadth-first 
> talk" to be prepared, though.? Jim asked me a week ago to present 
> essentially the same talk I'd given at ACCU on Nov 8, and I said I was 
> fine as long as I could subset it (basically down to "callbacks, 
> variations thereon and some of their ecosystem") because the amount of 
> material I had attempted to cover at ACCU had proven far too much for 
> 2 hours (and Baypiggies' talks are shorter than that).? And even the 
> full ACCU talk didn't touch on all the issues you want ( e.g., no 
> Erlang -- and only a part of async I/O, no mention of the gyrations 
> you need on Windows to do _general_ async I/O there).
>
> I'm quite happy to let Aahz talk instead (I can talk in Dec, Jan, or 
> whenever) if that's preferred, though I think my talk might be more 
> elementary (but also more generic/abstract/less task-oriented) than 
> Aahz's.? Who decides? Shall we toss a coin?-)
>
>
> Alex
>
> On 10/25/07, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> 
> wrote:aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>> > I'm still willing to do a November talk about threads, but the 
>> window is
>> > closing before other commitments will swamp it -- someone please 
>> make a
>> > decision by mid-day Sunday if possible.??(December is still 
>> possible;
>> > Jan/Feb are still unavailable.)
>>
>> As much as I'd like to finally meet Aahz in person, I'd still really
>> like to see a breadth-first talk providing an overview of a bunch of
>> different topics such as:
>>
>> * Threads.
>> * Processes.
>> * Asynchronous IO.
>> * Stackless.
>> * Coroutines.
>> * Erlang's approach.
>>
>> Threads are cool, but they're a gigantic pain ;)
>>
>> -jj
>>
>> --
>> I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
>> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>>  Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


From max at theslimmers.net  Fri Oct 26 03:09:55 2007
From: max at theslimmers.net (Max Slimmer)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:09:55 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <567d7c6a1110b20f406c07e872c029e5@well.com>
Message-ID: <200710260109.l9Q19wlf022152@a.mail.sonic.net>

-1
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org 
> [mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org] On Behalf Of jim stockford
> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 6:05 PM
> To: Alex Martelli
> Cc: Baypiggies
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] November talk?
> 
> 
>     who decides? certainly not me--should be some kind of 
> group concensus or vote.
>     that said, alex had agreed to speak in november, and many 
> thanks, by the way. Aahz can speak either in november or 
> december (as can alex). i cannot see any particular 
> dependency that would dictate order. my notion of default is 
> to keep alex for november and book aahz for december.
>     what say?
> +1 alex november, aahz december
> 0 don't care
> -1 aahz november, alex december
> 
> 
> On Oct 25, 2007, at 4:08 PM, Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> > Getting a bit too close to the Nov meeting for such a 
> "breadth-first 
> > talk" to be prepared, though.? Jim asked me a week ago to present 
> > essentially the same talk I'd given at ACCU on Nov 8, and I 
> said I was 
> > fine as long as I could subset it (basically down to "callbacks, 
> > variations thereon and some of their ecosystem") because 
> the amount of 
> > material I had attempted to cover at ACCU had proven far 
> too much for
> > 2 hours (and Baypiggies' talks are shorter than that).? And 
> even the 
> > full ACCU talk didn't touch on all the issues you want ( e.g., no 
> > Erlang -- and only a part of async I/O, no mention of the gyrations 
> > you need on Windows to do _general_ async I/O there).
> >
> > I'm quite happy to let Aahz talk instead (I can talk in Dec, Jan, or
> > whenever) if that's preferred, though I think my talk might be more 
> > elementary (but also more generic/abstract/less task-oriented) than 
> > Aahz's.? Who decides? Shall we toss a coin?-)
> >
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > On 10/25/07, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> 
> > wrote:aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> >> > I'm still willing to do a November talk about threads, but the
> >> window is
> >> > closing before other commitments will swamp it -- someone please
> >> make a
> >> > decision by mid-day Sunday if possible.??(December is still
> >> possible;
> >> > Jan/Feb are still unavailable.)
> >>
> >> As much as I'd like to finally meet Aahz in person, I'd 
> still really 
> >> like to see a breadth-first talk providing an overview of 
> a bunch of 
> >> different topics such as:
> >>
> >> * Threads.
> >> * Processes.
> >> * Asynchronous IO.
> >> * Stackless.
> >> * Coroutines.
> >> * Erlang's approach.
> >>
> >> Threads are cool, but they're a gigantic pain ;)
> >>
> >> -jj
> >>
> >> --
> >> I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
> >> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Baypiggies mailing list
> >>  Baypiggies at python.org
> >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> 


From kenobi at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 03:23:52 2007
From: kenobi at gmail.com (Rick Kwan)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:23:52 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] VMWare--CPD, Install Winning Opportunities!!
In-Reply-To: <3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79E1F2@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
References: <3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C291D4F@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DDD7@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DEF5@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79DEF7@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79E09C@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79E137@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79E13C@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79E1EF@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79E1F0@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
	<3E643D0BCA0E4D4ABFB2813034C8A94C79E1F2@PA-EXCH03.vmware.com>
Message-ID: <f0aa69930710251823q11486cabyc6e3833e2943cf2e@mail.gmail.com>

Yep, I just checked.  He really is an internal recruiter.  In fact,
looking at the job description, the winner is probably going to be
talking to me from time to time.  (Not my group, but not that far off
either.)

--Rick Kwan, MTS, ESX, VMware

On 10/25/07, Steve Hansen (c) <shansen at vmware.com> wrote:
> Dear fellow members of Bay Area Python Interest Group,
>
> I am a recruiter at VMWare.   We have many openings for Python
> programmers-developers.
> I send out this email to interested parties, below.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
> Python is necessary.   We need Linux O.S. knowledge.  Red Hat Package Manager
> is great! or  Solaris Package, Suse Package.
> The description is below.
>
> How much Python, do you have, months, years?
> How current are you in it?
> How strong are you in Python?
>
> How much experience do you have in a package manager, and which ones, have
> you used?
> RPM, SUSE, or Solaris Package Manager?
> If you don't have experience in these, we allow you  to learn them in time.
>
> Please let me know, if you are interested in it.  It is also, a hub group,
> having to deal with all the technologies, and development groups we have at
> VMWare.  We do 3-4--6 month releases for new functionality/new features, as
> well as work with other core technology groups, to do joint 16--18 months
> releases.
>
> We are the only team, that supports the entire product line.   We get to
> know, the whole product/project, and not just a small piece of it.
>
> So, you are Not going to be pidgeonholed into one area, you get to be in a
> broad technology role, the product line is All NEW!!
>
>
>
>    You'll get to learn the whole product.  We're the HUB, of all of VMWare!!!
>
>     High Visibility!!
>
>
>
> This is one the serious Top Visible Initiatives--Efforts in VMWare.
>
> Candidates have to be aware of CPD needs, can see the opportunities are
> infinite!!
>
> http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=VMW
>
>
> Please send me a copy of your resume.   I'll submit it to my hiring technical
> manager.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
> Steve Hansen
> Sr. Technical Recruiter
> VMware, Inc.
> shansen at vmware.com
> 408-946-0317
>
>
>
>   MTS - Software Engineer - Install      6703
>
>
>
> VMware is look for talented software engineers to be key members of a
> start-up engineering team. This role will develop and support the ESX
> Linux-based Console Operating System (COS). This operating system serves as a
> base for the ESX server and a platform for third party management agents.
>
> Responsibilities
>
> - Troubleshoot and resolve issues with installation, upgrade and support
> utilities in multiple releases.
> - Isolate problems which involve working across multiple components within
> the ESX product.
> - Communicate effectively with multiple groups in the course of performing
> the above functions.
> - Design and implement new features or enhancements to the existing products.
>
>
>
>
> Requirements
>
> - Expertise with installing, administering, troubleshooting, and developing
> software for the Linux operating system.
> -Strong multi-layer development and debugging skills across: library and
> application layers.
> - Proficiency in Python, Perl, and shell scripting.
> - The ability to debug some C code, but more-so Python and Perl, Makefiles,
> and other scripting and programming languages.
> - Knowledge of RPM (Red Hat Package Manager) best practices, as well as RPM
> install scripts, SPEC files, and development libraries.
>
> Otherwise:
>
> Solaris Package or Suse Package, Install Shield.
>
> We are using Python to build our new features, functions, and installation
> SW.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From joshua.gallagher at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 05:39:54 2007
From: joshua.gallagher at gmail.com (Joshua Gallagher)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 20:39:54 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <567d7c6a1110b20f406c07e872c029e5@well.com>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
	<55dc209b0710251608n68face16i738a73f5c84cea99@mail.gmail.com>
	<567d7c6a1110b20f406c07e872c029e5@well.com>
Message-ID: <9bb4e5be0710252039r25cb276ese80d891e8bc1ed24@mail.gmail.com>

-1:  Aahz November; Alex December

On 10/25/07, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>    who decides? certainly not me--should be some kind
> of group concensus or vote.
>    that said, alex had agreed to speak in november, and
> many thanks, by the way. Aahz can speak either in
> november or december (as can alex). i cannot see any
> particular dependency that would dictate order. my
> notion of default is to keep alex for november and book
> aahz for december.
>    what say?
> +1 alex november, aahz december
> 0 don't care
> -1 aahz november, alex december
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2007, at 4:08 PM, Alex Martelli wrote:
>
> > Getting a bit too close to the Nov meeting for such a "breadth-first
> > talk" to be prepared, though. Jim asked me a week ago to present
> > essentially the same talk I'd given at ACCU on Nov 8, and I said I was
> > fine as long as I could subset it (basically down to "callbacks,
> > variations thereon and some of their ecosystem") because the amount of
> > material I had attempted to cover at ACCU had proven far too much for
> > 2 hours (and Baypiggies' talks are shorter than that). And even the
> > full ACCU talk didn't touch on all the issues you want ( e.g., no
> > Erlang -- and only a part of async I/O, no mention of the gyrations
> > you need on Windows to do _general_ async I/O there).
> >
> > I'm quite happy to let Aahz talk instead (I can talk in Dec, Jan, or
> > whenever) if that's preferred, though I think my talk might be more
> > elementary (but also more generic/abstract/less task-oriented) than
> > Aahz's. Who decides? Shall we toss a coin?-)
> >
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > On 10/25/07, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com>
> > wrote:aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> >> > I'm still willing to do a November talk about threads, but the
> >> window is
> >> > closing before other commitments will swamp it -- someone please
> >> make a
> >> > decision by mid-day Sunday if possible.(December is still
> >> possible;
> >> > Jan/Feb are still unavailable.)
> >>
> >> As much as I'd like to finally meet Aahz in person, I'd still really
> >> like to see a breadth-first talk providing an overview of a bunch of
> >> different topics such as:
> >>
> >> * Threads.
> >> * Processes.
> >> * Asynchronous IO.
> >> * Stackless.
> >> * Coroutines.
> >> * Erlang's approach.
> >>
> >> Threads are cool, but they're a gigantic pain ;)
> >>
> >> -jj
> >>
> >> --
> >> I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
> >> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Baypiggies mailing list
> >>  Baypiggies at python.org
> >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From spmcinerney at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 26 10:40:05 2007
From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 01:40:05 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W9D053BC127BFC75F3817EA0960@phx.gbl>


 
-1 to Aahz on threads (I'd seen the original back in 2004) 
+1 to JJ's proposal - can we try to get speakers for at least 3 of
the suggested topics?
3 20-min talks is very doable.
It is always best to have both slides + demo.
 
Stephen
> From: jjinux at gmail.com> > As much as I'd like to finally meet Aahz in person, I'd still really> like to see a breadth-first talk providing an overview of a bunch of> different topics such as:> > * Threads.> * Processes.> * Asynchronous IO.> * Stackless.> * Coroutines.> * Erlang's approach.
_________________________________________________________________
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. Stop by today.
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline
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From adamlulvi at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 26 17:34:27 2007
From: adamlulvi at yahoo.com (Adam Ulvi)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 08:34:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
Message-ID: <332808.16525.qm@web30709.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

+1 JJ's proposal as well.



----- Original Message ----
From: Stephen McInerney <spmcinerney at hotmail.com>
To: Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com>
Cc: Baypiggies <baypiggies at python.org>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 1:40:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] November talk?





.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;padding:0px;}
body.hmmessage
{
FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;}


 

-1 to Aahz on threads (I'd seen the original back in 2004) 


+1 to JJ's proposal - can we try to get speakers for at least 3 of

the suggested topics?

3 20-min talks is very doable.

It is always best to have both slides + demo.

 

Stephen


> From: jjinux at gmail.com
> 
> As much as I'd like to finally meet Aahz in person, I'd still really
> like to see a breadth-first talk providing an overview of a bunch of
> different topics such as:
> 
> * Threads.
> * Processes.
> * Asynchronous IO.
> * Stackless.
> * Coroutines.
> * Erlang's approach.


Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. Stop by today!




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
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From libor at pobox.com  Fri Oct 26 19:16:38 2007
From: libor at pobox.com (Libor Michalek)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:16:38 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071026171638.GB12288@krk.borbox.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2007 at 03:33:35PM -0700, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> 
> As much as I'd like to finally meet Aahz in person, I'd still really
> like to see a breadth-first talk providing an overview of a bunch of
> different topics such as:
> 
> * Threads.
> * Processes.
> * Asynchronous IO.
> * Stackless.
> * Coroutines.
> * Erlang's approach.

JJ,

   If you're still thinking of wanting multiple people, each presenting
a portion, I'd be willing to volunteer to talk about coroutines, if you
don't already have someone for that portion. It would be pretty heavily
skewed towards the particular implementation we use for all of Slide's
servers, Although, a November deadline might be a stretch, but I could
be conviced. :)

> Threads are cool, but they're a gigantic pain ;)

  Indeed.

-Libor

From max at theslimmers.net  Fri Oct 26 20:32:13 2007
From: max at theslimmers.net (Max Slimmer)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:32:13 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] HTML code sets
Message-ID: <200710261832.l9QIWGlP019966@b.mail.sonic.net>

I am reading some raw HTML that contains things like: 

"enforcing the nation\xe2\x80\x99s laws" 

and I need to know what incantation to apply to translate the xe2,x80,x99
into some kind of apostrophe char. I can initialize this string as str or
unicode.

The headers are:
'<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">\n<html
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">\n<head>\n<meta
http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" />\n

Thanks,
max


From p at ulmcnett.com  Fri Oct 26 20:46:22 2007
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:46:22 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] HTML code sets
In-Reply-To: <200710261832.l9QIWGlP019966@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <200710261832.l9QIWGlP019966@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <472235FE.2090202@ulmcnett.com>

Hi Max,

> I am reading some raw HTML that contains things like: 
> 
> "enforcing the nation\xe2\x80\x99s laws" 
> 
> and I need to know what incantation to apply to translate the xe2,x80,x99
> into some kind of apostrophe char. I can initialize this string as str or
> unicode.
> 
> The headers are:
> '<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">\n<html
> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">\n<head>\n<meta
> http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" />\n


ISO-8859-1 is also known as latin-1.

 >>> s = u"enforcing the nation\xe2\x80\x99s laws"
 >>> print s.encode("latin-1")
enforcing the nation?s laws

-- 
pkm ~ http://paulmcnett.com

From Chris.Clark at ingres.com  Fri Oct 26 20:37:12 2007
From: Chris.Clark at ingres.com (Chris Clark)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:37:12 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] HTML code sets
In-Reply-To: <200710261832.l9QIWGlP019966@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <200710261832.l9QIWGlP019966@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <472233D8.1010306@ingres.com>

Max Slimmer wrote:
> I am reading some raw HTML that contains things like: 
>
> "enforcing the nation\xe2\x80\x99s laws" 
>
> and I need to know what incantation to apply to translate the xe2,x80,x99
> into some kind of apostrophe char. I can initialize this string as str or
> unicode.
>
> The headers are:
> '<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">\n<html
> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">\n<head>\n<meta
> http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" />\n
>   

The headers are lying to you, it is utf8.

    x="enforcing the nation\xe2\x80\x99s laws"
    print x.decode('utf8')

Try using http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/ instead of 
reading it by hand, it _should_ protect you from problems like this.


Chris


From max at theslimmers.net  Fri Oct 26 21:35:02 2007
From: max at theslimmers.net (Max Slimmer)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:35:02 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] HTML code sets
In-Reply-To: <472235FE.2090202@ulmcnett.com>
Message-ID: <200710261935.l9QJZ5BH017858@b.mail.sonic.net>

Interesting, I tried this (was aware that ISO-8859-1 is latin-1), and it doesn't work on my system. But treating it as
A utf-8 string as suggested by Chris Clark did work. I wonder if you have some encoding set in your machine different from mine. Cutting and pasting the lines you indicated return 

>>> print s.encode("latin-1")
enforcing the nation???s laws


 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul McNett [mailto:p at ulmcnett.com] 
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 11:46 AM
> To: Max Slimmer
> Cc: 'Python'
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] HTML code sets
> 
> Hi Max,
> 
> > I am reading some raw HTML that contains things like: 
> > 
> > "enforcing the nation\xe2\x80\x99s laws" 
> > 
> > and I need to know what incantation to apply to translate the 
> > xe2,x80,x99 into some kind of apostrophe char. I can 
> initialize this 
> > string as str or unicode.
> > 
> > The headers are:
> > '<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
> > "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">\n<html
> > xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">\n<head>\n<meta
> > http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; 
> charset=ISO-8859-1" />\n
> 
> 
> ISO-8859-1 is also known as latin-1.
> 
>  >>> s = u"enforcing the nation\xe2\x80\x99s laws"
>  >>> print s.encode("latin-1")
> enforcing the nation?s laws
> 
> --
> pkm ~ http://paulmcnett.com
> 


From nigels at bluearc.com  Fri Oct 26 21:35:07 2007
From: nigels at bluearc.com (Nigel Stolting)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:35:07 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <567d7c6a1110b20f406c07e872c029e5@well.com>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com><c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com><55dc209b0710251608n68face16i738a73f5c84cea99@mail.gmail.com>
	<567d7c6a1110b20f406c07e872c029e5@well.com>
Message-ID: <CECD6E8A589E8447BC6E836C8369AFF50E238DF7@us-email.terastack.bluearc.com>

-1:  Aahz November; Alex December

Nigel Stolting
BlueArc Engineering

-----Original Message-----
From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org [mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org] On Behalf Of jim stockford
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 6:05 PM
To: Alex Martelli
Cc: Baypiggies
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] November talk?


    who decides? certainly not me--should be some kind
of group concensus or vote.
    that said, alex had agreed to speak in november, and
many thanks, by the way. Aahz can speak either in
november or december (as can alex). i cannot see any
particular dependency that would dictate order. my
notion of default is to keep alex for november and book
aahz for december.
    what say?
+1 alex november, aahz december
0 don't care
-1 aahz november, alex december


On Oct 25, 2007, at 4:08 PM, Alex Martelli wrote:

> Getting a bit too close to the Nov meeting for such a "breadth-first 
> talk" to be prepared, though.? Jim asked me a week ago to present 
> essentially the same talk I'd given at ACCU on Nov 8, and I said I was 
> fine as long as I could subset it (basically down to "callbacks, 
> variations thereon and some of their ecosystem") because the amount of 
> material I had attempted to cover at ACCU had proven far too much for 
> 2 hours (and Baypiggies' talks are shorter than that).? And even the 
> full ACCU talk didn't touch on all the issues you want ( e.g., no 
> Erlang -- and only a part of async I/O, no mention of the gyrations 
> you need on Windows to do _general_ async I/O there).
>
> I'm quite happy to let Aahz talk instead (I can talk in Dec, Jan, or 
> whenever) if that's preferred, though I think my talk might be more 
> elementary (but also more generic/abstract/less task-oriented) than 
> Aahz's.? Who decides? Shall we toss a coin?-)
>
>
> Alex
>
> On 10/25/07, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> 
> wrote:aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>> > I'm still willing to do a November talk about threads, but the 
>> window is
>> > closing before other commitments will swamp it -- someone please 
>> make a
>> > decision by mid-day Sunday if possible.??(December is still 
>> possible;
>> > Jan/Feb are still unavailable.)
>>
>> As much as I'd like to finally meet Aahz in person, I'd still really
>> like to see a breadth-first talk providing an overview of a bunch of
>> different topics such as:
>>
>> * Threads.
>> * Processes.
>> * Asynchronous IO.
>> * Stackless.
>> * Coroutines.
>> * Erlang's approach.
>>
>> Threads are cool, but they're a gigantic pain ;)
>>
>> -jj
>>
>> --
>> I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
>> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>>  Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
Baypiggies at python.org
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

From aldenm at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 21:58:47 2007
From: aldenm at gmail.com (Alden Meneses)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:58:47 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <CECD6E8A589E8447BC6E836C8369AFF50E238DF7@us-email.terastack.bluearc.com>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
	<55dc209b0710251608n68face16i738a73f5c84cea99@mail.gmail.com>
	<567d7c6a1110b20f406c07e872c029e5@well.com>
	<CECD6E8A589E8447BC6E836C8369AFF50E238DF7@us-email.terastack.bluearc.com>
Message-ID: <221610dc0710261258w43ae91a5g643a8415c21b4c78@mail.gmail.com>

0 - No preference. (Noob looking to learn)

On 10/26/07, Nigel Stolting <nigels at bluearc.com> wrote:
>
> -1:  Aahz November; Alex December
>
> Nigel Stolting
> BlueArc Engineering
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org [mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org]
> On Behalf Of jim stockford
> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 6:05 PM
> To: Alex Martelli
> Cc: Baypiggies
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] November talk?
>
>
>    who decides? certainly not me--should be some kind
> of group concensus or vote.
>    that said, alex had agreed to speak in november, and
> many thanks, by the way. Aahz can speak either in
> november or december (as can alex). i cannot see any
> particular dependency that would dictate order. my
> notion of default is to keep alex for november and book
> aahz for december.
>    what say?
> +1 alex november, aahz december
> 0 don't care
> -1 aahz november, alex december
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2007, at 4:08 PM, Alex Martelli wrote:
>
> > Getting a bit too close to the Nov meeting for such a "breadth-first
> > talk" to be prepared, though. Jim asked me a week ago to present
> > essentially the same talk I'd given at ACCU on Nov 8, and I said I was
> > fine as long as I could subset it (basically down to "callbacks,
> > variations thereon and some of their ecosystem") because the amount of
> > material I had attempted to cover at ACCU had proven far too much for
> > 2 hours (and Baypiggies' talks are shorter than that). And even the
> > full ACCU talk didn't touch on all the issues you want ( e.g., no
> > Erlang -- and only a part of async I/O, no mention of the gyrations
> > you need on Windows to do _general_ async I/O there).
> >
> > I'm quite happy to let Aahz talk instead (I can talk in Dec, Jan, or
> > whenever) if that's preferred, though I think my talk might be more
> > elementary (but also more generic/abstract/less task-oriented) than
> > Aahz's. Who decides? Shall we toss a coin?-)
> >
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > On 10/25/07, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com>
> > wrote:aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> >> > I'm still willing to do a November talk about threads, but the
> >> window is
> >> > closing before other commitments will swamp it -- someone please
> >> make a
> >> > decision by mid-day Sunday if possible.(December is still
> >> possible;
> >> > Jan/Feb are still unavailable.)
> >>
> >> As much as I'd like to finally meet Aahz in person, I'd still really
> >> like to see a breadth-first talk providing an overview of a bunch of
> >> different topics such as:
> >>
> >> * Threads.
> >> * Processes.
> >> * Asynchronous IO.
> >> * Stackless.
> >> * Coroutines.
> >> * Erlang's approach.
> >>
> >> Threads are cool, but they're a gigantic pain ;)
> >>
> >> -jj
> >>
> >> --
> >> I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
> >> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Baypiggies mailing list
> >>  Baypiggies at python.org
> >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From alecf at flett.org  Sun Oct 28 01:45:25 2007
From: alecf at flett.org (Alec Flett)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 16:45:25 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <221610dc0710261258w43ae91a5g643a8415c21b4c78@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
	<55dc209b0710251608n68face16i738a73f5c84cea99@mail.gmail.com>
	<567d7c6a1110b20f406c07e872c029e5@well.com>
	<CECD6E8A589E8447BC6E836C8369AFF50E238DF7@us-email.terastack.bluearc.com>
	<221610dc0710261258w43ae91a5g643a8415c21b4c78@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c78d65270710271645h7281bc3ekf748ff7f372f601b@mail.gmail.com>

Here's an idea: a roundtable on concurrency. Rather than trying to do a
single, monolithic top-to-bottom of every approach, we cover the basics and
then delve into a more interactive session where people discuss specific
issues that they care about.

I personally think we could have one person do a handwavy talk for 30-40
minutes about the 3-4 major Python concurrency approaches:
- forking - basic process behavior, IPC approaches
- basic threading - what's a thread, what's a lock
- async I/O - how it works, scheduling issues
- stackless - what is it, what's a channel?

Leaving coroutines and erlang as being too advanced for the average person
interested in Python concurrency...

Then, you have some "experts" (maybe one per pattern) sit and have a
discussion in front of the rest of the group for an hour or two.

I think I'd be willing to even be the dummy who handwaves about these 4
approaches if I could find 4 willing experts to correct my naive
simplifications in a constructive way, through the roundtable discussion. I
am by NO means an expert in any of these areas but I understand the concepts
well enough, and have dabbled just enough in each of them to get myself in
trouble. As a bonus, I think I have a guy who would be willing to claim some
expertise in Stackless.

Here's the catch: I just can't justify the time commitment (to myself or my
family) to truck down to Mountain View from Berkeley without a car, and
without living near BART! (I don't know how jj does it from his place, if he
does!)

If there is no SF-based venue that people usually use, I can probably offer
up space at my company (Metaweb) at Montgomery & Howard in SF (near the
Montgomery BART and Transbay terminal) - This doesn't have to be one of the
monthly BayPiggies meetings, just a one-off SF-based meeting with a specific
focus.

Is this something people would be interested in?

Alec
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From jjinux at gmail.com  Sun Oct 28 02:29:45 2007
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 18:29:45 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <20071026171638.GB12288@krk.borbox.com>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071026171638.GB12288@krk.borbox.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90710271829j3182e13te9d0386d015a155d@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/26/07, Libor Michalek <libor at pobox.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2007 at 03:33:35PM -0700, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> >
> > As much as I'd like to finally meet Aahz in person, I'd still really
> > like to see a breadth-first talk providing an overview of a bunch of
> > different topics such as:
> >
> > * Threads.
> > * Processes.
> > * Asynchronous IO.
> > * Stackless.
> > * Coroutines.
> > * Erlang's approach.
>
> JJ,
>
>    If you're still thinking of wanting multiple people, each presenting
> a portion, I'd be willing to volunteer to talk about coroutines, if you
> don't already have someone for that portion. It would be pretty heavily
> skewed towards the particular implementation we use for all of Slide's
> servers, Although, a November deadline might be a stretch, but I could
> be conviced. :)
>
> > Threads are cool, but they're a gigantic pain ;)
>
>   Indeed.

Now we're talkin'!  The approach that egroups, IronPort, and Slide
uses is really, really cool, and too few people know about it.

I really believe that I can pull a talk like that together.

* Start with describing a single threaded, single process Web server.
* Mention threads and multiple processes, per Apache.
* Mention select, kqueue, etc.
* Explain how Twisted wraps those things using callbacks.  Show callback style.
* Have Alex show how you can do simple coroutines with generators..
The PEP itself has some pretty good examples.
* Have Libor talk about how Slide does things with Stackless Python.

I'd love to give a nod to Erlang, but we might run out of time.  I
think we should mostly skip the code, and think about the big picture.
 I think high-level pseudo code would be a good approach.  These
topics can be confusing, and it's no fun to drown in the details when
you're trying to get the big picture.

Maybe I'm completely wrong, but I do have a good sense for the
structure of the whole talk, and I think it's doable.

Best Regards,
-jj

-- 
I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From jjinux at gmail.com  Sun Oct 28 02:38:46 2007
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 18:38:46 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <c78d65270710271645h7281bc3ekf748ff7f372f601b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
	<55dc209b0710251608n68face16i738a73f5c84cea99@mail.gmail.com>
	<567d7c6a1110b20f406c07e872c029e5@well.com>
	<CECD6E8A589E8447BC6E836C8369AFF50E238DF7@us-email.terastack.bluearc.com>
	<221610dc0710261258w43ae91a5g643a8415c21b4c78@mail.gmail.com>
	<c78d65270710271645h7281bc3ekf748ff7f372f601b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90710271838hc926bbbw7ab5f8df1989961d@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/27/07, Alec Flett <alecf at flett.org> wrote:
> Here's an idea: a roundtable on concurrency. Rather than trying to do a
> single, monolithic top-to-bottom of every approach, we cover the basics and
> then delve into a more interactive session where people discuss specific
> issues that they care about.
>
> I personally think we could have one person do a handwavy talk for 30-40
> minutes about the 3-4 major Python concurrency approaches:
> - forking - basic process behavior, IPC approaches
> - basic threading - what's a thread, what's a lock
> - async I/O - how it works, scheduling issues
> - stackless - what is it, what's a channel?
>
> Leaving coroutines and erlang as being too advanced for the average person
> interested in Python concurrency...

Looks like we agree.

> Then, you have some "experts" (maybe one per pattern) sit and have a
> discussion in front of the rest of the group for an hour or two.
>
> I think I'd be willing to even be the dummy who handwaves about these 4
> approaches if I could find 4 willing experts to correct my naive
> simplifications in a constructive way, through the roundtable discussion. I
> am by NO means an expert in any of these areas but I understand the concepts
> well enough, and have dabbled just enough in each of them to get myself in
> trouble. As a bonus, I think I have a guy who would be willing to claim some
> expertise in Stackless.

Libor and I are both experts in stackless.  In fact, egroups,
IronPort, Slide, and the open source version of stackless all came
from the same lineage.

> Here's the catch: I just can't justify the time commitment (to myself or my
> family) to truck down to Mountain View from Berkeley without a car, and
> without living near BART! (I don't know how jj does it from his place, if he
> does!)

I volunteer a ride ;)  (925) 209-6439.

> If there is no SF-based venue that people usually use, I can probably offer
> up space at my company (Metaweb) at Montgomery & Howard in SF (near the
> Montgomery BART and Transbay terminal) - This doesn't have to be one of the
> monthly BayPiggies meetings, just a one-off SF-based meeting with a specific
> focus.

Since I can give you a ride, I think it's best to have it at google.
Everyone knows where it is, and I think it's a pretty good venue.

> Is this something people would be interested in?

Yep.

Drew, can you give a 10 minute overview of how Twisted uses callbacks
and continuation passing style on top of select, etc.?

Maybe it's just because I'm a Web guy, but I think it's helpful to
give the talk from the point of view of someone writing a Web server.
That's something that's well known and understood.  Hence, we
shouldn't cover Twisted's Web server implementation, but rather how
you would implement a Web server in Twisted vs. how you would
implement it with threads.

Best Regards,
-jj

-- 
I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From jim at well.com  Sun Oct 28 02:52:46 2007
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 18:52:46 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90710271838hc926bbbw7ab5f8df1989961d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
	<55dc209b0710251608n68face16i738a73f5c84cea99@mail.gmail.com>
	<567d7c6a1110b20f406c07e872c029e5@well.com>
	<CECD6E8A589E8447BC6E836C8369AFF50E238DF7@us-email.terastack.bluearc.com>
	<221610dc0710261258w43ae91a5g643a8415c21b4c78@mail.gmail.com>
	<c78d65270710271645h7281bc3ekf748ff7f372f601b@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90710271838hc926bbbw7ab5f8df1989961d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3e26d7df16e7e458d38eef809cd04674@well.com>


    alec's suggestion is for a 30 to 40 minute hand-waving
intro followed by expert commentary for an hour or two.
    seems great to me, can we arrange to get the time from
google wrt using their meeting room(s)? if not, is it
possible to split the talk into two, one for one month and
one for the subsequent month?


On Oct 27, 2007, at 6:38 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:

> On 10/27/07, Alec Flett <alecf at flett.org> wrote:
>> Here's an idea: a roundtable on concurrency. Rather than trying to do 
>> a
>> single, monolithic top-to-bottom of every approach, we cover the 
>> basics and
>> then delve into a more interactive session where people discuss 
>> specific
>> issues that they care about.
>>
>> I personally think we could have one person do a handwavy talk for 
>> 30-40
>> minutes about the 3-4 major Python concurrency approaches:
>> - forking - basic process behavior, IPC approaches
>> - basic threading - what's a thread, what's a lock
>> - async I/O - how it works, scheduling issues
>> - stackless - what is it, what's a channel?
>>
>> Leaving coroutines and erlang as being too advanced for the average 
>> person
>> interested in Python concurrency...
>
> Looks like we agree.
>
>> Then, you have some "experts" (maybe one per pattern) sit and have a
>> discussion in front of the rest of the group for an hour or two.
>>
>> I think I'd be willing to even be the dummy who handwaves about these 
>> 4
>> approaches if I could find 4 willing experts to correct my naive
>> simplifications in a constructive way, through the roundtable 
>> discussion. I
>> am by NO means an expert in any of these areas but I understand the 
>> concepts
>> well enough, and have dabbled just enough in each of them to get 
>> myself in
>> trouble. As a bonus, I think I have a guy who would be willing to 
>> claim some
>> expertise in Stackless.
>
> Libor and I are both experts in stackless.  In fact, egroups,
> IronPort, Slide, and the open source version of stackless all came
> from the same lineage.
>
>> Here's the catch: I just can't justify the time commitment (to myself 
>> or my
>> family) to truck down to Mountain View from Berkeley without a car, 
>> and
>> without living near BART! (I don't know how jj does it from his 
>> place, if he
>> does!)
>
> I volunteer a ride ;)  (925) 209-6439.
>
>> If there is no SF-based venue that people usually use, I can probably 
>> offer
>> up space at my company (Metaweb) at Montgomery & Howard in SF (near 
>> the
>> Montgomery BART and Transbay terminal) - This doesn't have to be one 
>> of the
>> monthly BayPiggies meetings, just a one-off SF-based meeting with a 
>> specific
>> focus.
>
> Since I can give you a ride, I think it's best to have it at google.
> Everyone knows where it is, and I think it's a pretty good venue.
>
>> Is this something people would be interested in?
>
> Yep.
>
> Drew, can you give a 10 minute overview of how Twisted uses callbacks
> and continuation passing style on top of select, etc.?
>
> Maybe it's just because I'm a Web guy, but I think it's helpful to
> give the talk from the point of view of someone writing a Web server.
> That's something that's well known and understood.  Hence, we
> shouldn't cover Twisted's Web server implementation, but rather how
> you would implement a Web server in Twisted vs. how you would
> implement it with threads.
>
> Best Regards,
> -jj
>
> -- 
> I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 28 03:03:02 2007
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:03:02 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Sourceforge problems
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0710271903r156aec8ava226286341f1f2a9@mail.gmail.com>

IS anyone else having problems getting to Sourceforge?


Cache Error!
An error of type 500 occurred: Unable to connect to remote server.

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Oct 28 18:41:19 2007
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:41:19 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90710271829j3182e13te9d0386d015a155d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071026171638.GB12288@krk.borbox.com>
	<c41f67b90710271829j3182e13te9d0386d015a155d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071028174119.GA26564@panix.com>

At this point, since there seems to be no consensus for me doing a
threads talk in November, I'm withdrawing.  (This isn't a snit, I just
need to prioritize my time, especially given that I got into an accident
last week and need to do some car-shopping.)  I'm still available for
December.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Typing is cheap.  Thinking is expensive."  --Roy Smith

From jim at well.com  Mon Oct 29 03:26:03 2007
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 18:26:03 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <20071028174119.GA26564@panix.com>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071026171638.GB12288@krk.borbox.com>
	<c41f67b90710271829j3182e13te9d0386d015a155d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071028174119.GA26564@panix.com>
Message-ID: <25afa04df1d370d710b6711e022cc488@well.com>


aahz, oh, no, the votes are coming in and they seem
pretty much all for you to speak in november. let's
give it till tuesday to give people time to respond.

On Oct 28, 2007, at 9:41 AM, Aahz wrote:

> At this point, since there seems to be no consensus for me doing a
> threads talk in November, I'm withdrawing.  (This isn't a snit, I just
> need to prioritize my time, especially given that I got into an 
> accident
> last week and need to do some car-shopping.)  I'm still available for
> December.
> -- 
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         
> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> "Typing is cheap.  Thinking is expensive."  --Roy Smith
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Oct 29 04:45:20 2007
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:45:20 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <25afa04df1d370d710b6711e022cc488@well.com>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071026171638.GB12288@krk.borbox.com>
	<c41f67b90710271829j3182e13te9d0386d015a155d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071028174119.GA26564@panix.com>
	<25afa04df1d370d710b6711e022cc488@well.com>
Message-ID: <20071029034520.GA15980@panix.com>

On Sun, Oct 28, 2007, jim stockford wrote:
> 
> aahz, oh, no, the votes are coming in and they seem pretty much all
> for you to speak in november. let's give it till tuesday to give
> people time to respond.

Unfortunately, I needed to know by noonish today (as I said earlier)
given all the schedule juggling I need to do.  Although the people voting
on November/December were voting for me to do it in November, several
people were advocating for the round-table for November.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Typing is cheap.  Thinking is expensive."  --Roy Smith

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Oct 29 16:42:10 2007
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:42:10 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Threads tutorial
Message-ID: <20071029154210.GA11494@panix.com>

For those who wanted the threads tutorial in November, here's a link to
the slides:

http://www.pythoncraft.com/OSCON2001/index.html

I'm happy to answer questions about it here or (preferably) on
comp.lang.python.  (I only take questions in public so that other people
can learn.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Typing is cheap.  Thinking is expensive."  --Roy Smith

From jim at well.com  Mon Oct 29 17:29:08 2007
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:29:08 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-W396B1CDAB4438C0FA69A9FA0910@phx.gbl>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071026171638.GB12288@krk.borbox.com>
	<c41f67b90710271829j3182e13te9d0386d015a155d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071028174119.GA26564@panix.com>
	<25afa04df1d370d710b6711e022cc488@well.com>
	<BAY111-W396B1CDAB4438C0FA69A9FA0910@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <19491fe1877bb8a614a28361d9e9f5c3@well.com>


    of the voting choices, either alex in november and
aahz in december (+1) or aahz in november and alex
in december (-1), all votes cast so far have been -1,
i.e. aahz in november.
    JJ's proposal is something we're working on but is
not an alternative choice for november or december:
hopefully we can get this together as a good talk for
the january meeting.



From afife at untangle.com  Mon Oct 29 18:54:36 2007
From: afife at untangle.com (Andrew Fife)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:54:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baypiggies] November Talk? & Future Talks...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.33.1193655621.23587.baypiggies@python.org>
References: <mailman.33.1193655621.23587.baypiggies@python.org>
Message-ID: <003901c81a54$b28736c0$0400a8c0@Untangle.local>

I would be happy help out by getting Untangle's Founder/CTO to give a talk
on virtualizing network applications (Snort, SpamAssassin, OpenVPN,
ClamAV, etc.).  It's a technical talk about getting multiple applications
running on standard x86 hardware while avoiding the resource contention
and latency issues that arise from making the processor perform multiple
context switches and storing buffer copies.     

To be clear, the talk really has nothing to do with Python, but the Bay
Piggies audience may find it interesting.  I'd be happy to line this up in
November or any other month that the group is in need of a speaker.
Consider it an open-ended offer.    

-Andrew

********************************************
Andrew Fife
Untangle - Open Source Security Gateway
download.untangle.com

650.425.3327 (O)
415.806.6028 (C)
afife at untangle.com 



From phsu at abaca.com  Mon Oct 29 18:38:51 2007
From: phsu at abaca.com (Peter Hsu)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:38:51 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Abaca Technology Corporation is looking for a Senior
	Software Engineer
Message-ID: <4DFDD3C2A32E124DA48D8E66B990483E0CB460@abacaexchange.corp.abaca.com>

Abaca is looking for a Senior Software Engineer.  In addition to being a
python guru, you will be required to provide technical leadership.  You
will design and implement software using the latest technologies and
development process. Set engineering priorities in support of company
goals to deliver quality, high-performance products in a fast-paced
startup environment. You will also be expected to:

 

 * Lead the full software development lifecycle from prototyping and
design to release 

 * Provide realistic scoping of projects 

 * Create extensible designs and implement products with high quality,
and performance 

 * Insure quality development processes are used and that code is
designed to facilitate testability and support

 * Support Sales and Marketing efforts

 * Mentor technical team members in a collaborative 

team-oriented environment 

 

JOB REQUIREMENTS:

 * 7-10 years software development experience

 * Proven track record of meeting tight deadlines

 * Positive, team-oriented attitude

 * Excellent oral and written communication skills

 * Excellent analytic and troubleshooting skills

 * Demonstrated ability to complete highly detailed tasks with strict
attention to quality, completeness and timeliness

 * Strong organizational and self-management skills

 * Must be a self-motivated learner

 * Must be able to work individually and with others with little
supervision in fast-paced, constantly changing start-up environment

 * Will likely have customer contact and/or need to provide
customer-level documentation

 

TECHNICAL SKILLS REQUIREMENTS:

 * Application development experience on Linux platform

 * Strong knowledge of Python

 * Strong background of OO, MVC-based, web-focused analysis and design

 * Knowledge of Internet protocols such as SMTP, LDAP, HTTP, POP3, IMAP,
FTP, SNMP, etc.

 * Knowledge of Java, C++ or other object-oriented language is a plus.

 * Experience with Postgres stored procedures a plus.

 * Prior experience with AJAX a plus

 * Experience designing areas of security, performance, capacity and
maintainability

 * SQL and schema design experience

 * Must understand the general software development release cycle,
source management and defect management methodologies in a mixed
Microsoft Windows

 and Linux environment.

 

If you have any questions, please feel free to email me.

 

Peter Hsu

Engineering Manager

Abaca Technology Corporation

phsu at abaca.com

 

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From drewp at bigasterisk.com  Tue Oct 30 04:49:52 2007
From: drewp at bigasterisk.com (Drew Perttula)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:49:52 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90710271838hc926bbbw7ab5f8df1989961d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>	<c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>	<55dc209b0710251608n68face16i738a73f5c84cea99@mail.gmail.com>	<567d7c6a1110b20f406c07e872c029e5@well.com>	<CECD6E8A589E8447BC6E836C8369AFF50E238DF7@us-email.terastack.bluearc.com>	<221610dc0710261258w43ae91a5g643a8415c21b4c78@mail.gmail.com>	<c78d65270710271645h7281bc3ekf748ff7f372f601b@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90710271838hc926bbbw7ab5f8df1989961d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4726A9E0.3010205@bigasterisk.com>

Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> Drew, can you give a 10 minute overview of how Twisted uses callbacks
> and continuation passing style on top of select, etc.?
> 

Sure, I'd be happy to present that. I know there are some even more 
experienced twisted experts around who may be able to help (and I invite 
them to join or replace me :).


From matt at matt-good.net  Tue Oct 30 17:37:20 2007
From: matt at matt-good.net (Matt Good)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 09:37:20 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90710271829j3182e13te9d0386d015a155d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071026171638.GB12288@krk.borbox.com>
	<c41f67b90710271829j3182e13te9d0386d015a155d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C30A9A46-2A62-49D5-873E-619DDF68B0FD@matt-good.net>

On Oct 27, 2007, at 6:29 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:

> * Start with describing a single threaded, single process Web server.
> * Mention threads and multiple processes, per Apache.
> * Mention select, kqueue, etc.
> * Explain how Twisted wraps those things using callbacks.  Show  
> callback style.
> * Have Alex show how you can do simple coroutines with generators..
> The PEP itself has some pretty good examples.
> * Have Libor talk about how Slide does things with Stackless Python.

Are there any greenlets experts that would care to comment on them?

-- Matt

From jjinux at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 23:16:57 2007
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:16:57 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <C30A9A46-2A62-49D5-873E-619DDF68B0FD@matt-good.net>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071026171638.GB12288@krk.borbox.com>
	<c41f67b90710271829j3182e13te9d0386d015a155d@mail.gmail.com>
	<C30A9A46-2A62-49D5-873E-619DDF68B0FD@matt-good.net>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90710301516t3d8fb336s45cf5a41a7a6a408@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/30/07, Matt Good <matt at matt-good.net> wrote:
> On Oct 27, 2007, at 6:29 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
>
> > * Start with describing a single threaded, single process Web server.
> > * Mention threads and multiple processes, per Apache.
> > * Mention select, kqueue, etc.
> > * Explain how Twisted wraps those things using callbacks.  Show
> > callback style.
> > * Have Alex show how you can do simple coroutines with generators..
> > The PEP itself has some pretty good examples.
> > * Have Libor talk about how Slide does things with Stackless Python.
>
> Are there any greenlets experts that would care to comment on them?

Greenlets are cool in that they're the "hard part" of implementing
what IronPort and Slide has.

-jj

-- 
I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From libor at pobox.com  Tue Oct 30 23:51:28 2007
From: libor at pobox.com (Libor Michalek)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:51:28 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] November talk?
In-Reply-To: <C30A9A46-2A62-49D5-873E-619DDF68B0FD@matt-good.net>
References: <20071025191957.GC15621@panix.com>
	<c41f67b90710251533u7ea59941ldc1c7b67f2db0660@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071026171638.GB12288@krk.borbox.com>
	<c41f67b90710271829j3182e13te9d0386d015a155d@mail.gmail.com>
	<C30A9A46-2A62-49D5-873E-619DDF68B0FD@matt-good.net>
Message-ID: <20071030225128.GA9449@krk.borbox.com>

On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 09:37:20AM -0700, Matt Good wrote:
> On Oct 27, 2007, at 6:29 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> 
> >* Start with describing a single threaded, single process Web server.
> >* Mention threads and multiple processes, per Apache.
> >* Mention select, kqueue, etc.
> >* Explain how Twisted wraps those things using callbacks.  Show  
> >callback style.
> >* Have Alex show how you can do simple coroutines with generators..
> >The PEP itself has some pretty good examples.
> >* Have Libor talk about how Slide does things with Stackless Python.
> 
> Are there any greenlets experts that would care to comment on them?

  The greenlet module is a mechanism for manipulating and maintaining
multiple execution stacks within a single program. It is one of several
ways to implement the stack manipulation necessary for coroutine context
switching. There are other ways, besides greenlet, to accomplish the
coroutine stack manipulation. As far as stack manipulation modules
greenlet is probably the most space efficient at the expense of some
context switch time.

  Just to clarify Slide doesn't use Stackless Python, in our operating
environment, to implement coroutines. Instead we use a fairly standard
build of Python and a stack manipulation module. 


-Libor

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Oct 31 18:59:55 2007
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:59:55 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] FWD: [PyCON-Organizers] PyCon 2008 - Call for Tutorials
Message-ID: <20071031175955.GA16559@panix.com>

----- Forwarded message from Greg Lindstrom <gslindstrom at gmail.com> -----

> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:06:37 -0500
> From: Greg Lindstrom <gslindstrom at gmail.com>
> To: python-list at python.org, python-announce-list at python.org,
> 	pycon-organizers at python.org
> Subject: [PyCON-Organizers] PyCon 2008 - Call for Tutorials
> 
> PyCon 2008 is being held in Chicago this year. The general conference is
> March 14-16 with the proceeding day, March 13th, being the traditional
> "tutorial day".  We have had a lot of input on topics to cover and now we
> are looking for qualified instructors to sign up to present the sessions.
> Tutorials are 3 hours long (with break) and instructors are paid for their
> effort ($1000.00 + conference registration).
> 
> PyCon is planned and run by volunteers just like you.  Why not get involved?
> 
> Pop on over to us.pycon.org <http://us.pycon.org/2008/about> for conference
> details or email us at pycon-tutorials at python.org and let us know what you
> would like to present as a tutorial.
> 
> Thanks,
> --greg

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Typing is cheap.  Thinking is expensive."  --Roy Smith

From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 18:40:30 2007
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:40:30 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Book:Core Python, 2nd Edition
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0710311040k45d72ba8ieb921d6004095e7b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Everyone,

If you have received a copy of Core Python, 2nd Edition from me,
either to review or as a giveaway book, would you please email me off
list.

Thanks

Tony