From jlorance at ahaanswers.com  Fri Jun  1 19:44:42 2007
From: jlorance at ahaanswers.com (John Lorance)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:44:42 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Looking for Bay Area Python/AJAX wizards...
Message-ID: <94BA66B4-E10E-4E5E-9D08-0422CA14BE19@ahaanswers.com>

So, I'll keep this short as to not spam this list...

.. .my company, Aha!Answers, is looking for a Bay Area experienced  
Python software engineer to join our small engineering team.   Want  
to contribute in a big way to a well fund emerging startup?  Want to  
wield your Python and Ajax skills to deliver an awesome experience  
helping consumers find answers to what they are looking for?

Please email me off-list for details.... this is a full-time position  
located in the Bay Area (San Francisco).

Regards,
John Lorance, VP Engineering
Aha!Answers

From keith at dartworks.biz  Tue Jun  5 05:40:31 2007
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart =?UTF-8?B?4pmC?=)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 20:40:31 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] pycopia on google code
Message-ID: <20070604204031.7fb5d3a5@psyche.corp.google.com>

In case anyone is interested, the pyNMS code is now Pycopia, and is now
available via subversion from Google code hosting.

http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/

It's been broken up into functional subpackages using the setuptool's
"namespace package" feature. Has anyone else used that?

You can "easy_install" some, but not all, of the packages. It seems that
system doesn't like certain things (complains about a "sandbox"), but
the usual "sudo python setup.py install" works for all of them.



-- 
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================


From ml at slide.com  Tue Jun  5 21:44:56 2007
From: ml at slide.com (Mary Lee Stephens)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 12:44:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Job Opporutnity - Coding Widget Server in Python
Message-ID: <3243059.3191181072696707.JavaMail.root@calculon>

Server Coder

Slide helps you publish and discover personalized Slide shows of photos and other digital content. Launched in 2005 by PayPal co-founder Max Levchin, Slide is dramatically changing the way you express yourself and communicate with others online. Slide is used by millions of people around the world and is growing rapidly every day; our software is installed on over a million PCs around the world. 

We are looking for an intelligent, self-motivated, energetic problem-solver who likes breaking server, enjoys working closely with software developers, and can contribute his or her ideas and energy to the development of successful products. 

You should have experience developing server software in Python or some other interpreted dynamically typed language. 

You have a detailed understanding of using Unix to implement a large server application: networking, memory, storage and concurrency. 

You possess knowledge of web service technologies and protocols (Linux, MySQL, Apache, REST, XML, Ajax, etc...) 

You believe that an appreciation for elegant algorithms and data structures is compatible with pragmatism and getting cool things done. 

You feel comfortable with asynchronous network programming, server frameworks, distributed systems, fault tolerance, and scalability. 

You have a B.S. in Computer Science or related field. 


Please send resumes to jobs at slide.com and note you saw this on the bay piggies forum.  Slide is located at 612 Howard Street in San Francisco.

Thank you,

Mary Lee Stephens
Technical Recruiter
Slide, Inc.
415-302-3767
ml at slide.com



From ken at seehart.com  Thu Jun  7 09:56:29 2007
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 00:56:29 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Html encoding question
In-Reply-To: <1621f9fa0705110822u693345c7vee85cf6e4f8997ed@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90705110103x531cf5c8j22a84bd42cbbd4c1@mail.gmail.com>	<20070511122111.GI4637@danimal.org>	<43aa6ff70705110806v5311bf76p4466f00344755bd0@mail.gmail.com>
	<1621f9fa0705110822u693345c7vee85cf6e4f8997ed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4667BA2D.2050008@seehart.com>

Is there a handy function somewhere that converts a string so that the 
result will display as plain text in an html document?  Somewhat 
analogous to urlencode but not exactly.

So for example

 >>> html_str_encode('where x < z*5, and x > z+2')
'where x &lt; z*5, and x &gt; z+2'

I'm pretty sure I've seen this before, but I just can't seem to find it 
today.  Maybe I just need more coffee.

Thanks,
- Ken




From jjinux at gmail.com  Thu Jun  7 10:01:47 2007
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 01:01:47 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Html encoding question
In-Reply-To: <4667BA2D.2050008@seehart.com>
References: <c41f67b90705110103x531cf5c8j22a84bd42cbbd4c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070511122111.GI4637@danimal.org>
	<43aa6ff70705110806v5311bf76p4466f00344755bd0@mail.gmail.com>
	<1621f9fa0705110822u693345c7vee85cf6e4f8997ed@mail.gmail.com>
	<4667BA2D.2050008@seehart.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90706070101u2947b467s9824a2a26ea9e7f7@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/7/07, Ken Seehart <ken at seehart.com> wrote:
> Is there a handy function somewhere that converts a string so that the
> result will display as plain text in an html document?  Somewhat
> analogous to urlencode but not exactly.
>
> So for example
>
>  >>> html_str_encode('where x < z*5, and x > z+2')
> 'where x &lt; z*5, and x &gt; z+2'
>
> I'm pretty sure I've seen this before, but I just can't seem to find it
> today.  Maybe I just need more coffee.
>
> Thanks,
> - Ken

>>> import cgi
>>> cgi.escape('where x < z*5, and x > z+2')
'where x &lt; z*5, and x &gt; z+2'

It's more simple than complete, but it works for the standard stuff.

Best Regards,
-jj

-- 
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From joshua.gallagher at gmail.com  Thu Jun  7 16:01:53 2007
From: joshua.gallagher at gmail.com (Joshua Gallagher)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 07:01:53 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Html encoding question
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90706070101u2947b467s9824a2a26ea9e7f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90705110103x531cf5c8j22a84bd42cbbd4c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070511122111.GI4637@danimal.org>
	<43aa6ff70705110806v5311bf76p4466f00344755bd0@mail.gmail.com>
	<1621f9fa0705110822u693345c7vee85cf6e4f8997ed@mail.gmail.com>
	<4667BA2D.2050008@seehart.com>
	<c41f67b90706070101u2947b467s9824a2a26ea9e7f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9bb4e5be0706070701s464c8054ha8cad8c86da5c1b8@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ken,

If you want the string 'where x < z*5, and x > z+2' to show up as
text, you could also put it within the <pre></pre> html tags.

For example:
sampleCode = '<pre>' + 'where x < z*5, and x > z+2' + '</pre>'

All the best,

Joshua

On 6/7/07, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/7/07, Ken Seehart <ken at seehart.com> wrote:
> > Is there a handy function somewhere that converts a string so that the
> > result will display as plain text in an html document?  Somewhat
> > analogous to urlencode but not exactly.
> >
> > So for example
> >
> >  >>> html_str_encode('where x < z*5, and x > z+2')
> > 'where x &lt; z*5, and x &gt; z+2'
> >
> > I'm pretty sure I've seen this before, but I just can't seem to find it
> > today.  Maybe I just need more coffee.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > - Ken
>
> >>> import cgi
> >>> cgi.escape('where x < z*5, and x > z+2')
> 'where x &lt; z*5, and x &gt; z+2'
>
> It's more simple than complete, but it works for the standard stuff.
>
> Best Regards,
> -jj
>
> --
> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From kelly at nttmcl.com  Thu Jun  7 20:54:19 2007
From: kelly at nttmcl.com (Kelly Yancey)
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 11:54:19 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Html encoding question
In-Reply-To: <9bb4e5be0706070701s464c8054ha8cad8c86da5c1b8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90705110103x531cf5c8j22a84bd42cbbd4c1@mail.gmail.com>	<20070511122111.GI4637@danimal.org>	<43aa6ff70705110806v5311bf76p4466f00344755bd0@mail.gmail.com>	<1621f9fa0705110822u693345c7vee85cf6e4f8997ed@mail.gmail.com>	<4667BA2D.2050008@seehart.com>	<c41f67b90706070101u2947b467s9824a2a26ea9e7f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<9bb4e5be0706070701s464c8054ha8cad8c86da5c1b8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4668545B.3030705@nttmcl.com>

Joshua Gallagher wrote::
> Hi Ken,
> 
> If you want the string 'where x < z*5, and x > z+2' to show up as
> text, you could also put it within the <pre></pre> html tags.
> 
> For example:
> sampleCode = '<pre>' + 'where x < z*5, and x > z+2' + '</pre>'
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Joshua
> 

   Unfortunately, you still need to convert the '<' and '>' characters 
to HTML entities (as JJ's snippet did).  Somewhere I seem to recall 
having seen a web browser that did not interpret '<', '>', etc. in PRE 
tags, but a quick test with both Firefox and IE7 shows that both of the 
mainstream browsers will interpret them.  Hence the need to convert them 
to entities using cgi.escape().

   As a quick demo, consider the following HTML document:

	<html>
	<body>
	<pre>
	&lt;b&gt;Test 1&lt;/b&gt;
	<b>Test 2</b>
	</pre>
	</body>
	</html>

   In both Firefox and IE7, Test 2 is rendered in bold.

   For this reason, I have to run all code samples through the following 
filter before posting them to my blog:

python -c 'import cgi; import sys; print cgi.escape(sys.stdin.read());'

   Of course, as you mention, the code looks a lot better if I put it 
inside a PRE tag. :)

   Kelly

-- 
Kelly Yancey
http://kbyanc.blogspot.com/

> On 6/7/07, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 6/7/07, Ken Seehart <ken at seehart.com> wrote:
>>> Is there a handy function somewhere that converts a string so that the
>>> result will display as plain text in an html document?  Somewhat
>>> analogous to urlencode but not exactly.
>>>
>>> So for example
>>>
>>>  >>> html_str_encode('where x < z*5, and x > z+2')
>>> 'where x &lt; z*5, and x &gt; z+2'
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure I've seen this before, but I just can't seem to find it
>>> today.  Maybe I just need more coffee.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> - Ken
>>>>> import cgi
>>>>> cgi.escape('where x < z*5, and x > z+2')
>> 'where x &lt; z*5, and x &gt; z+2'
>>
>> It's more simple than complete, but it works for the standard stuff.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> -jj
>>
>> --
>> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From jim at well.com  Sun Jun 10 00:05:25 2007
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 15:05:25 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] At Google: bayPIGgies meeting Thursday June 14:
	unittest
Message-ID: <04a144050c48ebb9d367d5e92acde0e9@well.com>



Thursday, June 14, 2007
Location: Google


Agenda-----------------------------


..... 7:30 PM ...........................
General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any
first-minute announcements.


..... 7:35 PM to 8:40 PM ................
Topic: Unittest
Speaker: Collin Winter

About the Talk:
Collin reports on his recent work to redesign Python's unittest module.
This is a preview of the presentation he'll be giving at EuroPython 2007
on the same topic: "Python's unittest module sucks. Come find out why
and what's being done to fix it."

Links:
http://oakwinter.com/code/a-new-unittest/
http://oakwinter.com/code/pythons-unittest-module-sucks/
http://oakwinter.com/code/motivation-for-rewriting-unittest/

About Collin:
Collin is a Python core developer and works at Google with Guido van
Rossum on Mondrian [1]_, Google's code review tool. Most of his Python
work is focused on Python 3000, such as the 2to3 tool [2]_ for
translating Python 2 into Python 3 source.
_[1] - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8502904076440714866
_[2] - http://svn.python.org/view/sandbox/trunk/2to3/


..... 8:40 PM to 9:00 PM ................
Event: Mapping/Random Access

Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of topics the announcer
is interested in.

Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up individually on
  topics of interest.


The July Meeting
The July meeting is Newbies' Night, Part 2, presenting the second half
of Alex Martelli's Python for Programmers talk.


From lhawthorn at google.com  Mon Jun 11 17:24:47 2007
From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 08:24:47 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] please register for Thursday's meeting
Message-ID: <4869cee70706110824ye597d7br7b9aa6ec56e03979@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

Please register for this Thursday's Baypiggies meeting by Wednesday, 6/13 at
5 PM.

http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings

Due to space constraints, we'll be meeting in Paramaribo Tech Talk (2nd
Floor, 42).  Your badges will be waiting for you at Building 42 reception
when you arrive.  If you do not have the opportunity to pre-register for the
meeting, please plan to sign it at reception upon arrival.

Cheers,
LH



-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Open Source Program Office
Google Inc.
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From lkoschin at curse-gaming.com  Tue Jun 12 10:55:41 2007
From: lkoschin at curse-gaming.com (Lars Koschin)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 01:55:41 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Seeking a Sr. Python Developer
Message-ID: <003c01c7accf$751e3470$5f5a9d50$@com>

 

 

Our company is seeking a Sr. Python Developer.



 Curse HYPERLINK "http://www.curse-gaming.com"www.curse-gaming.com is a fast
growing, profitable, funded, international web technology
 company in the video game sector (Focused on innovation around
applications, 
 software, tools, contents).  

 We're located in S.F and growing rapidly as a company and team.

 Our company and business combines a well defined and unique vertical, 
 datamining, web2.0, communities, social networking and dynamic
interactivity
 of users with their favorite IPs'. (We're not an editorial business)

 As we implement on our strategy, prepare to launch an array of new
services, 
 and build our business, in the U.S, EU and Asia; we are actively seeking
 accomplished, talented, creative and passionate team members.

 The role:
 Apply expertise in the development and utilization of Web-based languages
 and protocols to develop customized programming for Web-based software
 solutions, products and/or projects. Uses object orientated programming, 
 Linux systems, relational databases (RDBMS), and advanced programming
 languages.

 Create, design, develop, code, test, debug, administrate Webservers and
 application servers.
 Work with Graphic Designers, Project Managers and Engineering team to 
 develop the site
 Responsible for writing unit tests for all classes and documenting
behavior.
 Responsible for adhering to coding standards and processes.
 Responsible for communicating progress or problems to Project Managers. 
 May assist with estimating level of effort for new projects.

 Strong analytical skills and ability to assist other team members in
problem solving.


 May recommend infrastructure


 
 Primary Required Skills/Experience:


 Fluent in Python


 SQL 4+ years


 HTML 2 years 



 Required Skills:


 B.S. in Computer Science or equivalent work experience.


 Past experience with creating relational data models.


 Past experience with developing dynamic data/object driven server side web 


 applications.





 Additional Skills (Familiar with)


 SVN


 XML


 Apache


 Linux


 Shell Scripting

 Perl



 

 

CTO
Curse Inc.
HYPERLINK "mailto:wkriegel at curse.com"lkoschin at curse.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.curse.com"www.curse.com
Office: (415) 856 0056
Fax: (415) 856 0062

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or individuals to whom the e-mail is
addressed. This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain
confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No
confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If
you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, please immediately notify
the sender and delete and/or destroy the e-mail (along with any files
transmitted with it) and all electronic or hard copies from your system. You
should not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or
copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. 

 


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.13/844 - Release Date: 11.06.2007
17:10
 
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From mrbmahoney at gmail.com  Tue Jun 12 19:47:57 2007
From: mrbmahoney at gmail.com (Brian Mahoney)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:47:57 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Dinner Announcement - Thursday, June 14, 6 pm
Message-ID: <5538c19b0706121047g6d53a4f1o99f51995818e8aa@mail.gmail.com>

For Thursday, June 14, I can coordinate a pre-meeting
dinner in Mountain View, before the BayPIGgies meeting
at Google .

Restaurant reservations may be sent to my email until
Thursday afternoon (earlier is better). We eat family-style,
there are vegetarian and non-vegetarian dishes.  Cost around
$10 per person, including tax and tip. Bring cash, please.

Start dinner at 6pm and I will keep things moving so that we
finish and get everyone headed towards Google to
complete sign-in before the 7:30 meeting start.

The restaurant is Cafe Yulong in downtown Mountain View
(650) 960-1677
743 W Dana Street, 1/2 block from Castro where
Books, Inc is on the corner.
Parking lots all around, but downtown Mountain View
parking is still difficult.

It is a slightly out of the ordinary Chinese
restaurant.  This link has a downtown map and
additional information.
http://www.mountainviewca.net/restaurants/cafeyulong.html

I've made reservations under "Python" for 6pm
Thursday.

If you wish to join us for dinner please e-mail me
by 3 pm Thursday (earlier is better) so I may confirm
the headcount.

From spmcinerney at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 15 00:11:49 2007
From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:11:49 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting details
Message-ID: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>


A friend (who is not on the list) asked me what the topic and details
for tonight's meeting are.

It is not posted on: http://www.baypiggies.net/
which still lists the May newbies meeting.

Regards,
Stephen

_________________________________________________________________
Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. 
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01


From dcramer at gmail.com  Fri Jun 15 00:32:51 2007
From: dcramer at gmail.com (David Cramer)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:32:51 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting
	details
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>

I was curious as to why the website wasn't updated either. It makes the
group seem inactive and skeptical to possible attendees? (like myself)

On 6/14/07, Stephen McInerney <spmcinerney at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> A friend (who is not on the list) asked me what the topic and details
> for tonight's meeting are.
>
> It is not posted on: http://www.baypiggies.net/
> which still lists the May newbies meeting.
>
> Regards,
> Stephen
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
>
> http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
David Cramer
Lead Developer
Curse, Inc.
http://www.curse.com/
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From jim at well.com  Fri Jun 15 01:05:15 2007
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:05:15 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting
	details
In-Reply-To: <f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
	<f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57d674d809d0c0bce0efc845ee4513b3@well.com>


I can't answer as to the website updates.
As to the meeting content, here's a copy
of the email announcement, just in case....



Thursday, June 14, 2007
Location: Google


Agenda-----------------------------


..... 7:30 PM ...........................
General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any
first-minute announcements.


..... 7:35 PM to 8:40 PM ................
Topic: Unittest
Speaker: Collin Winter

About the Talk:
Collin reports on his recent work to redesign Python's unittest module.
This is a preview of the presentation he'll be giving at EuroPython 2007
on the same topic: "Python's unittest module sucks. Come find out why
and what's being done to fix it."

Links:
http://oakwinter.com/code/a-new-unittest/
http://oakwinter.com/code/pythons-unittest-module-sucks/
http://oakwinter.com/code/motivation-for-rewriting-unittest/

About Collin:
Collin is a Python core developer and works at Google with Guido van
Rossum on Mondrian [1]_, Google's code review tool. Most of his Python
work is focused on Python 3000, such as the 2to3 tool [2]_ for
translating Python 2 into Python 3 source.
_[1] - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8502904076440714866
_[2] - http://svn.python.org/view/sandbox/trunk/2to3/


..... 8:40 PM to 9:00 PM ................
Event: Mapping/Random Access

Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of topics the announcer
is interested in.

Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up individually on
   topics of interest.


The July Meeting
The July meeting is Newbies' Night, Part 2, presenting the second half
of Alex Martelli's Python for Programmers talk.



On Jun 14, 2007, at 3:32 PM, David Cramer wrote:

> I was curious as to why the website wasn't updated either. It makes  
> the group seem inactive and skeptical to possible attendees? (like  
> myself)
>
> On 6/14/07, Stephen McInerney <spmcinerney at hotmail.com > wrote:
>> A friend (who is not on the list) asked me what the topic and details
>> for tonight's meeting are.
>>
>> It is not posted on: http://www.baypiggies.net/
>> which still lists the May newbies meeting.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Stephen
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
>>   
>> http://maps.live.com/default.aspx? 
>> ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~ 
>> -117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt= 
>> -1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>
>
> -- 
> David Cramer
> Lead Developer
> Curse, Inc.
> http://www.curse.com/_______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Fri Jun 15 02:50:43 2007
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 17:50:43 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting
	details
In-Reply-To: <57d674d809d0c0bce0efc845ee4513b3@well.com>
References: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
	<f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
	<57d674d809d0c0bce0efc845ee4513b3@well.com>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0706141750l4630c5d7m130514f058c110ca@mail.gmail.com>

that's my fault.. I mentioned awhile back I was getting increasingly
busy with Plone development work.. Stephen just called and I'm putting
the new stuff online (too little , too late) I know..

If we could get the content moved over the Plone site I set up.. we
could put the updates in the hands of others and not depend on any
free time I might have..

I can't even attend the meeting tonight due to looming deadlines.. :-(
I was going to try..

sorry guys.. just have stephen call me .. lol.. always seems to push
me to get that update online..

Donna

On 6/14/07, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
> I can't answer as to the website updates.
> As to the meeting content, here's a copy
> of the email announcement, just in case....
>
>
>
> Thursday, June 14, 2007
> Location: Google
>
>
> Agenda-----------------------------
>
>
> ..... 7:30 PM ...........................
> General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any
> first-minute announcements.
>
>
> ..... 7:35 PM to 8:40 PM ................
> Topic: Unittest
> Speaker: Collin Winter
>
> About the Talk:
> Collin reports on his recent work to redesign Python's unittest module.
> This is a preview of the presentation he'll be giving at EuroPython 2007
> on the same topic: "Python's unittest module sucks. Come find out why
> and what's being done to fix it."
>
> Links:
> http://oakwinter.com/code/a-new-unittest/
> http://oakwinter.com/code/pythons-unittest-module-sucks/
> http://oakwinter.com/code/motivation-for-rewriting-unittest/
>
> About Collin:
> Collin is a Python core developer and works at Google with Guido van
> Rossum on Mondrian [1]_, Google's code review tool. Most of his Python
> work is focused on Python 3000, such as the 2to3 tool [2]_ for
> translating Python 2 into Python 3 source.
> _[1] - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8502904076440714866
> _[2] - http://svn.python.org/view/sandbox/trunk/2to3/
>
>
> ..... 8:40 PM to 9:00 PM ................
> Event: Mapping/Random Access
>
> Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of topics the announcer
> is interested in.
>
> Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up individually on
>    topics of interest.
>
>
> The July Meeting
> The July meeting is Newbies' Night, Part 2, presenting the second half
> of Alex Martelli's Python for Programmers talk.
>
>
>
> On Jun 14, 2007, at 3:32 PM, David Cramer wrote:
>
> > I was curious as to why the website wasn't updated either. It makes
> > the group seem inactive and skeptical to possible attendees? (like
> > myself)
> >
> > On 6/14/07, Stephen McInerney <spmcinerney at hotmail.com > wrote:
> >> A friend (who is not on the list) asked me what the topic and details
> >> for tonight's meeting are.
> >>
> >> It is not posted on: http://www.baypiggies.net/
> >> which still lists the May newbies meeting.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Stephen
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
> >>
> >> http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?
> >> ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~
> >> -117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=
> >> -1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
> >>
> >>  _______________________________________________
> >> Baypiggies mailing list
> >> Baypiggies at python.org
> >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> >>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > David Cramer
> > Lead Developer
> > Curse, Inc.
> > http://www.curse.com/_______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From dcramer at gmail.com  Fri Jun 15 02:59:25 2007
From: dcramer at gmail.com (David Cramer)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 17:59:25 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting
	details
In-Reply-To: <baf0d46b0706141750l4630c5d7m130514f058c110ca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
	<f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
	<57d674d809d0c0bce0efc845ee4513b3@well.com>
	<baf0d46b0706141750l4630c5d7m130514f058c110ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f470871d0706141759s7d3349d3ucb0156f31e2f0896@mail.gmail.com>

Could always setup the site using Django :)

Could take as little as a day (including server setup)

On 6/14/07, Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> that's my fault.. I mentioned awhile back I was getting increasingly
> busy with Plone development work.. Stephen just called and I'm putting
> the new stuff online (too little , too late) I know..
>
> If we could get the content moved over the Plone site I set up.. we
> could put the updates in the hands of others and not depend on any
> free time I might have..
>
> I can't even attend the meeting tonight due to looming deadlines.. :-(
> I was going to try..
>
> sorry guys.. just have stephen call me .. lol.. always seems to push
> me to get that update online..
>
> Donna
>
> On 6/14/07, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
> >
> > I can't answer as to the website updates.
> > As to the meeting content, here's a copy
> > of the email announcement, just in case....
> >
> >
> >
> > Thursday, June 14, 2007
> > Location: Google
> >
> >
> > Agenda-----------------------------
> >
> >
> > ..... 7:30 PM ...........................
> > General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any
> > first-minute announcements.
> >
> >
> > ..... 7:35 PM to 8:40 PM ................
> > Topic: Unittest
> > Speaker: Collin Winter
> >
> > About the Talk:
> > Collin reports on his recent work to redesign Python's unittest module.
> > This is a preview of the presentation he'll be giving at EuroPython 2007
> > on the same topic: "Python's unittest module sucks. Come find out why
> > and what's being done to fix it."
> >
> > Links:
> > http://oakwinter.com/code/a-new-unittest/
> > http://oakwinter.com/code/pythons-unittest-module-sucks/
> > http://oakwinter.com/code/motivation-for-rewriting-unittest/
> >
> > About Collin:
> > Collin is a Python core developer and works at Google with Guido van
> > Rossum on Mondrian [1]_, Google's code review tool. Most of his Python
> > work is focused on Python 3000, such as the 2to3 tool [2]_ for
> > translating Python 2 into Python 3 source.
> > _[1] - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8502904076440714866
> > _[2] - http://svn.python.org/view/sandbox/trunk/2to3/
> >
> >
> > ..... 8:40 PM to 9:00 PM ................
> > Event: Mapping/Random Access
> >
> > Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of topics the announcer
> > is interested in.
> >
> > Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up individually on
> >    topics of interest.
> >
> >
> > The July Meeting
> > The July meeting is Newbies' Night, Part 2, presenting the second half
> > of Alex Martelli's Python for Programmers talk.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jun 14, 2007, at 3:32 PM, David Cramer wrote:
> >
> > > I was curious as to why the website wasn't updated either. It makes
> > > the group seem inactive and skeptical to possible attendees? (like
> > > myself)
> > >
> > > On 6/14/07, Stephen McInerney <spmcinerney at hotmail.com > wrote:
> > >> A friend (who is not on the list) asked me what the topic and details
> > >> for tonight's meeting are.
> > >>
> > >> It is not posted on: http://www.baypiggies.net/
> > >> which still lists the May newbies meeting.
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Stephen
> > >>
> > >> _________________________________________________________________
> > >> Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
> > >>
> > >> http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?
> > >> ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~
> > >> -117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=
> > >> -1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
> > >>
> > >>  _______________________________________________
> > >> Baypiggies mailing list
> > >> Baypiggies at python.org
> > >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > >>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > David Cramer
> > > Lead Developer
> > > Curse, Inc.
> > > http://www.curse.com/_______________________________________________
> > > Baypiggies mailing list
> > > Baypiggies at python.org
> > > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
>



-- 
David Cramer
Lead Developer
Curse, Inc.
http://www.curse.com/
-------------- next part --------------
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From keith at dartworks.biz  Fri Jun 15 03:08:06 2007
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart =?UTF-8?B?4pmC?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 18:08:06 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting
 details
In-Reply-To: <f470871d0706141759s7d3349d3ucb0156f31e2f0896@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
	<f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
	<57d674d809d0c0bce0efc845ee4513b3@well.com>
	<baf0d46b0706141750l4630c5d7m130514f058c110ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<f470871d0706141759s7d3349d3ucb0156f31e2f0896@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070614180806.32d8a27b@psyche.corp.google.com>

David Cramer wrote the following on 2007-06-14 at 17:59 PDT:
===
> Could always setup the site using Django :)
> 
> Could take as little as a day (including server setup)
===

I have a dedicated host I could donate the use of. We would have
complete control of it there, including automated updates. ;-) 

-- 
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================


From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Fri Jun 15 03:38:30 2007
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 18:38:30 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting
	details
In-Reply-To: <20070614180806.32d8a27b@psyche.corp.google.com>
References: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
	<f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
	<57d674d809d0c0bce0efc845ee4513b3@well.com>
	<baf0d46b0706141750l4630c5d7m130514f058c110ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<f470871d0706141759s7d3349d3ucb0156f31e2f0896@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070614180806.32d8a27b@psyche.corp.google.com>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0706141838v668e8b68u2b0559f8559a6f75@mail.gmail.com>

We have a live Plone site here.. ready to be filled with content..

It's been sitting there for months now..

http://baypiggies.net/new/plone

Actually.. I have GoToMeeting.. maybe we should setup an online
meeting with conference where I can show people how to update the
site..(add content.. etc)

Just seems silly to rebuild when we have a new one already.. it just
needs content and willing content providers...

(I need to optimize it for speed.. Plone's slow out of the box.. but
turning off some of the default stuff speeds it up considerably)

Anyone up for an online meeting/training? say sometime next week?

Donna

On 6/14/07, Keith Dart ? <keith at dartworks.biz> wrote:
> David Cramer wrote the following on 2007-06-14 at 17:59 PDT:
> ===
> > Could always setup the site using Django :)
> >
> > Could take as little as a day (including server setup)
> ===
>
> I have a dedicated host I could donate the use of. We would have
> complete control of it there, including automated updates. ;-)
>
> --
> -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>    Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
>    public key: ID: 19017044
>    <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
>    =====================================================================
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From keith at dartworks.biz  Fri Jun 15 03:44:45 2007
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart =?UTF-8?B?4pmC?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 18:44:45 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting
 details
In-Reply-To: <baf0d46b0706141838v668e8b68u2b0559f8559a6f75@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
	<f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
	<57d674d809d0c0bce0efc845ee4513b3@well.com>
	<baf0d46b0706141750l4630c5d7m130514f058c110ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<f470871d0706141759s7d3349d3ucb0156f31e2f0896@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070614180806.32d8a27b@psyche.corp.google.com>
	<baf0d46b0706141838v668e8b68u2b0559f8559a6f75@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070614184445.25df7831@psyche.corp.google.com>

Donna Snow wrote the following on 2007-06-14 at 18:38 PDT:
===
> We have a live Plone site here.. ready to be filled with content..

===

Oh, ok. I didn't know. 

I wouldn't mind some training. I've been trying to figure out
Zope/Plone for years... but we use Django. ;-) 

But if I had a choice I'd choose something more
programmable/scriptable.


-- 
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================


From matt at matt-good.net  Fri Jun 15 03:48:10 2007
From: matt at matt-good.net (Matt Good)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 18:48:10 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting
	details
In-Reply-To: <baf0d46b0706141838v668e8b68u2b0559f8559a6f75@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
	<f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
	<57d674d809d0c0bce0efc845ee4513b3@well.com>
	<baf0d46b0706141750l4630c5d7m130514f058c110ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<f470871d0706141759s7d3349d3ucb0156f31e2f0896@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070614180806.32d8a27b@psyche.corp.google.com>
	<baf0d46b0706141838v668e8b68u2b0559f8559a6f75@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <352611F4-4710-4EA0-84AD-4C719B99D1ED@matt-good.net>

I don't see it mentioned in the email, but the meeting is being held  
in the Paramaribo Tech Talk 42 room, not the standard Tunis in 43.  I  
thought the wine they were serving by Tunis seemed a bit extravagant  
for the BayPiggies meeting :)

-- Matt


On Jun 14, 2007, at 6:38 PM, Donna Snow wrote:

> We have a live Plone site here.. ready to be filled with content..
>
> It's been sitting there for months now..
>
> http://baypiggies.net/new/plone
>
> Actually.. I have GoToMeeting.. maybe we should setup an online
> meeting with conference where I can show people how to update the
> site..(add content.. etc)
>
> Just seems silly to rebuild when we have a new one already.. it just
> needs content and willing content providers...
>
> (I need to optimize it for speed.. Plone's slow out of the box.. but
> turning off some of the default stuff speeds it up considerably)
>
> Anyone up for an online meeting/training? say sometime next week?
>
> Donna
>
> On 6/14/07, Keith Dart ? <keith at dartworks.biz> wrote:
>> David Cramer wrote the following on 2007-06-14 at 17:59 PDT:
>> ===
>>> Could always setup the site using Django :)
>>>
>>> Could take as little as a day (including server setup)
>> ===
>>
>> I have a dedicated host I could donate the use of. We would have
>> complete control of it there, including automated updates. ;-)
>>
>> --
>> --  
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>    Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
>>    public key: ID: 19017044
>>    <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
>>     
>> =====================================================================
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Fri Jun 15 05:09:03 2007
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 20:09:03 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting
	details
In-Reply-To: <f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
	<f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0706142009u30e08a13s6309d5e4ab9ceede@mail.gmail.com>

We already have enough complainers, we need some maintainers

Anyone who wants to volunteer to help Donna maintain the website,
please step forward

On 6/14/07, David Cramer <dcramer at gmail.com> wrote:
> I was curious as to why the website wasn't updated either. It makes the
> group seem inactive and skeptical to possible attendees? (like myself)
>
>
> On 6/14/07, Stephen McInerney <spmcinerney at hotmail.com > wrote:
> >
> > A friend (who is not on the list) asked me what the topic and details
> > for tonight's meeting are.
> >
> > It is not posted on: http://www.baypiggies.net/
> > which still lists the May newbies meeting.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Stephen
> >
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
> >
> http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
>
>
>
> --
> David Cramer
> Lead Developer
> Curse, Inc.
> http://www.curse.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Fri Jun 15 05:43:36 2007
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 20:43:36 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting
	details
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0706142009u30e08a13s6309d5e4ab9ceede@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
	<f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
	<8249c4ac0706142009u30e08a13s6309d5e4ab9ceede@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0706142043m7c8e86datfee03ad2fb98cb6e@mail.gmail.com>

Well.. :-) like I said.. if anyone has an hour or so.. one evening
next week.. I'll fire up GoToMeeting and do a little online training..
in the Plone instance.. for those who are interested..

Let me know and I'll coordinate the online gathering..

Donna


On 6/14/07, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112 at gmail.com> wrote:
> We already have enough complainers, we need some maintainers
>
> Anyone who wants to volunteer to help Donna maintain the website,
> please step forward
>
> On 6/14/07, David Cramer <dcramer at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I was curious as to why the website wasn't updated either. It makes the
> > group seem inactive and skeptical to possible attendees? (like myself)
> >
> >
> > On 6/14/07, Stephen McInerney <spmcinerney at hotmail.com > wrote:
> > >
> > > A friend (who is not on the list) asked me what the topic and details
> > > for tonight's meeting are.
> > >
> > > It is not posted on: http://www.baypiggies.net/
> > > which still lists the May newbies meeting.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Stephen
> > >
> > >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
> > >
> > http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Baypiggies mailing list
> > > Baypiggies at python.org
> > > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > David Cramer
> > Lead Developer
> > Curse, Inc.
> > http://www.curse.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From spmcinerney at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 15 06:49:25 2007
From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:49:25 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's
	meetingdetails
In-Reply-To: <baf0d46b0706141838v668e8b68u2b0559f8559a6f75@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY111-F19E9C776632D2CD2F738F9A01E0@phx.gbl>

Donna,

>We have a live Plone site here.. ready to be filled with content..
>It's been sitting there for months now..
>http://baypiggies.net/new/plone

FYI I tried to register but it rejected my hotmail.com address
"We were unable to send your password to your email address: (111, 
'Connection refused')"

Regards,
Stephen

_________________________________________________________________
Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the i?m Initiative now. 
It?s free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_June07


From jim at well.com  Fri Jun 15 06:57:38 2007
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:57:38 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting
	details
In-Reply-To: <baf0d46b0706141838v668e8b68u2b0559f8559a6f75@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
	<f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
	<57d674d809d0c0bce0efc845ee4513b3@well.com>
	<baf0d46b0706141750l4630c5d7m130514f058c110ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<f470871d0706141759s7d3349d3ucb0156f31e2f0896@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070614180806.32d8a27b@psyche.corp.google.com>
	<baf0d46b0706141838v668e8b68u2b0559f8559a6f75@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <efc2b2edbac7c1ff1414cadf8510e9c4@well.com>


yes, i'm up for training.
jim

On Jun 14, 2007, at 6:38 PM, Donna Snow wrote:

> We have a live Plone site here.. ready to be filled with content..
>
> It's been sitting there for months now..
>
> http://baypiggies.net/new/plone
>
> Actually.. I have GoToMeeting.. maybe we should setup an online
> meeting with conference where I can show people how to update the
> site..(add content.. etc)
>
> Just seems silly to rebuild when we have a new one already.. it just
> needs content and willing content providers...
>
> (I need to optimize it for speed.. Plone's slow out of the box.. but
> turning off some of the default stuff speeds it up considerably)
>
> Anyone up for an online meeting/training? say sometime next week?
>
> Donna
>
> On 6/14/07, Keith Dart ? <keith at dartworks.biz> wrote:
>> David Cramer wrote the following on 2007-06-14 at 17:59 PDT:
>> ===
>>> Could always setup the site using Django :)
>>>
>>> Could take as little as a day (including server setup)
>> ===
>>
>> I have a dedicated host I could donate the use of. We would have
>> complete control of it there, including automated updates. ;-)
>>
>> --
>> -- 
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>    Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
>>    public key: ID: 19017044
>>    <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
>>    
>> =====================================================================
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


From kelly at nttmcl.com  Fri Jun 15 14:37:19 2007
From: kelly at nttmcl.com (Kelly Yancey)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 05:37:19 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] test method decorators
Message-ID: <467287FF.5060503@nttmcl.com>


  A couple of people asked me after the meeting to post my test method
decorators for implementing TODO and platform-specific test annotations
using the unittest module (they should work for nose too).  I just put
them up on my blog at:
http://kbyanc.blogspot.com/2007/06/pythons-unittest-module-aint-that-bad.html

  I whipped them up during the meeting, so they are a little rough
around the edges and only lightly tested, but I think they express the
idea that unittest can do composition of extensions using function
wrappers.  Python's decorator syntax makes wrapping the test methods
easy on the eyes and intuitive.  The only thing I am currently aware of
that cannot be done using decorators is implementing alternate loggers
(e.g. to database or to XML).  The unittest module has some support for
replacing loggers, and Collin alluded to an XML logger that I link to in
my blog, but composition of loggers, as Collin mentioned in his talk, is
distinctly non-trivial.

  Kelly

-- 
Kelly Yancey
http://kbyanc.blogspot.com/

From bsergean at gmail.com  Fri Jun 15 15:45:35 2007
From: bsergean at gmail.com (Benjamin Sergeant)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 06:45:35 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] test method decorators
In-Reply-To: <467287FF.5060503@nttmcl.com>
References: <467287FF.5060503@nttmcl.com>
Message-ID: <1621f9fa0706150645hf8fe8eakefcc2c3c12011546@mail.gmail.com>

One other decorator idea, close to the platform one, would be a module specific.
RIght now in my test I do it in my main runner script, trying to
import module specific tests, and removing them from the test modules
if the import fail.

Could we have a TestCase decorator level to do that (that might not
work since the module are imported in the first line of the test case
script) ?
Is there a better way to do that ?
Would it be a TestRunner decorator ?

Benjamin.

<<<
(from http://pytof.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/test/test.py)
def getDefaultTestModules():
    defaultTestModules = [os.path.splitext(i)[0] for i in glob('*_test.py')]
    # Remove tests that require non-installed dependency.
    try:
        import wxpil
    except ImportError:
        defaultTestModules.remove('wxpil_test')
    try:
        import gtkpil
    except ImportError:
        defaultTestModules.remove('gtkpil_test')
>>>

On 6/15/07, Kelly Yancey <kelly at nttmcl.com> wrote:
>
>   A couple of people asked me after the meeting to post my test method
> decorators for implementing TODO and platform-specific test annotations
> using the unittest module (they should work for nose too).  I just put
> them up on my blog at:
> http://kbyanc.blogspot.com/2007/06/pythons-unittest-module-aint-that-bad.html
>
>   I whipped them up during the meeting, so they are a little rough
> around the edges and only lightly tested, but I think they express the
> idea that unittest can do composition of extensions using function
> wrappers.  Python's decorator syntax makes wrapping the test methods
> easy on the eyes and intuitive.  The only thing I am currently aware of
> that cannot be done using decorators is implementing alternate loggers
> (e.g. to database or to XML).  The unittest module has some support for
> replacing loggers, and Collin alluded to an XML logger that I link to in
> my blog, but composition of loggers, as Collin mentioned in his talk, is
> distinctly non-trivial.
>
>   Kelly
>
> --
> Kelly Yancey
> http://kbyanc.blogspot.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From jjinux at gmail.com  Fri Jun 15 22:09:43 2007
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 13:09:43 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] test method decorators
In-Reply-To: <1621f9fa0706150645hf8fe8eakefcc2c3c12011546@mail.gmail.com>
References: <467287FF.5060503@nttmcl.com>
	<1621f9fa0706150645hf8fe8eakefcc2c3c12011546@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90706151309k22521046q5b8651eb1ba1ab7b@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the talk, Collin!

Somewhat orthogonal:

By the way, to answer someone's related question yesterday, Nose knows
how to do module-level setup and tear down.  I think it's as easy as
writing a "setup" and a "teardown" method at the module level.
Naturally, class-level is also possible.

Happy Hacking!
-jj

On 6/15/07, Benjamin Sergeant <bsergean at gmail.com> wrote:
> One other decorator idea, close to the platform one, would be a module specific.
> RIght now in my test I do it in my main runner script, trying to
> import module specific tests, and removing them from the test modules
> if the import fail.
>
> Could we have a TestCase decorator level to do that (that might not
> work since the module are imported in the first line of the test case
> script) ?
> Is there a better way to do that ?
> Would it be a TestRunner decorator ?
>
> Benjamin.
>
> <<<
> (from http://pytof.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/test/test.py)
> def getDefaultTestModules():
>     defaultTestModules = [os.path.splitext(i)[0] for i in glob('*_test.py')]
>     # Remove tests that require non-installed dependency.
>     try:
>         import wxpil
>     except ImportError:
>         defaultTestModules.remove('wxpil_test')
>     try:
>         import gtkpil
>     except ImportError:
>         defaultTestModules.remove('gtkpil_test')
> >>>
>
> On 6/15/07, Kelly Yancey <kelly at nttmcl.com> wrote:
> >
> >   A couple of people asked me after the meeting to post my test method
> > decorators for implementing TODO and platform-specific test annotations
> > using the unittest module (they should work for nose too).  I just put
> > them up on my blog at:
> > http://kbyanc.blogspot.com/2007/06/pythons-unittest-module-aint-that-bad.html
> >
> >   I whipped them up during the meeting, so they are a little rough
> > around the edges and only lightly tested, but I think they express the
> > idea that unittest can do composition of extensions using function
> > wrappers.  Python's decorator syntax makes wrapping the test methods
> > easy on the eyes and intuitive.  The only thing I am currently aware of
> > that cannot be done using decorators is implementing alternate loggers
> > (e.g. to database or to XML).  The unittest module has some support for
> > replacing loggers, and Collin alluded to an XML logger that I link to in
> > my blog, but composition of loggers, as Collin mentioned in his talk, is
> > distinctly non-trivial.
> >
> >   Kelly
> >
> > --
> > Kelly Yancey
> > http://kbyanc.blogspot.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


-- 
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From jjinux at gmail.com  Fri Jun 15 22:33:46 2007
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 13:33:46 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting
	details
In-Reply-To: <f470871d0706141759s7d3349d3ucb0156f31e2f0896@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
	<f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
	<57d674d809d0c0bce0efc845ee4513b3@well.com>
	<baf0d46b0706141750l4630c5d7m130514f058c110ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<f470871d0706141759s7d3349d3ucb0156f31e2f0896@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90706151333y5e239e18saaea400701e9b53b@mail.gmail.com>

There's no reason to use Django over Plone.  This is the type of thing
that Plone was made for! ;)

-jj

On 6/14/07, David Cramer <dcramer at gmail.com> wrote:
> Could always setup the site using Django :)
>
> Could take as little as a day (including server setup)
>
>
> On 6/14/07, Donna Snow < donnamsnow at gmail.com> wrote:
> > that's my fault.. I mentioned awhile back I was getting increasingly
> > busy with Plone development work.. Stephen just called and I'm putting
> > the new stuff online (too little , too late) I know..
> >
> > If we could get the content moved over the Plone site I set up.. we
> > could put the updates in the hands of others and not depend on any
> > free time I might have..
> >
> > I can't even attend the meeting tonight due to looming deadlines.. :-(
> > I was going to try..
> >
> > sorry guys.. just have stephen call me .. lol.. always seems to push
> > me to get that update online..
> >
> > Donna
> >
> > On 6/14/07, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I can't answer as to the website updates.
> > > As to the meeting content, here's a copy
> > > of the email announcement, just in case....
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thursday, June 14, 2007
> > > Location: Google
> > >
> > >
> > > Agenda-----------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > > ..... 7:30 PM ...........................
> > > General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any
> > > first-minute announcements.
> > >
> > >
> > > ..... 7:35 PM to 8:40 PM ................
> > > Topic: Unittest
> > > Speaker: Collin Winter
> > >
> > > About the Talk:
> > > Collin reports on his recent work to redesign Python's unittest module.
> > > This is a preview of the presentation he'll be giving at EuroPython 2007
> > > on the same topic: "Python's unittest module sucks. Come find out why
> > > and what's being done to fix it."
> > >
> > > Links:
> > > http://oakwinter.com/code/a-new-unittest/
> > >
> http://oakwinter.com/code/pythons-unittest-module-sucks/
> > >
> http://oakwinter.com/code/motivation-for-rewriting-unittest/
> > >
> > > About Collin:
> > > Collin is a Python core developer and works at Google with Guido van
> > > Rossum on Mondrian [1]_, Google's code review tool. Most of his Python
> > > work is focused on Python 3000, such as the 2to3 tool [2]_ for
> > > translating Python 2 into Python 3 source.
> > > _[1] -
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8502904076440714866
> > > _[2] - http://svn.python.org/view/sandbox/trunk/2to3/
> > >
> > >
> > > ..... 8:40 PM to 9:00 PM ................
> > > Event: Mapping/Random Access
> > >
> > > Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of topics the announcer
> > > is interested in.
> > >
> > > Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up individually on
> > >    topics of interest.
> > >
> > >
> > > The July Meeting
> > > The July meeting is Newbies' Night, Part 2, presenting the second half
> > > of Alex Martelli's Python for Programmers talk.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jun 14, 2007, at 3:32 PM, David Cramer wrote:
> > >
> > > > I was curious as to why the website wasn't updated either. It makes
> > > > the group seem inactive and skeptical to possible attendees? (like
> > > > myself)
> > > >
> > > > On 6/14/07, Stephen McInerney <spmcinerney at hotmail.com > wrote:
> > > >> A friend (who is not on the list) asked me what the topic and details
> > > >> for tonight's meeting are.
> > > >>
> > > >> It is not posted on: http://www.baypiggies.net/
> > > >> which still lists the May newbies meeting.
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards,
> > > >> Stephen
> > > >>
> > > >>
> _________________________________________________________________
> > > >> Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
> > > >>
> > > >> http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?
> > > >> ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=
> 33.832922~
> > > >> -117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=
> > > >> -1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
> > > >>
> > > >>  _______________________________________________
> > > >> Baypiggies mailing list
> > > >> Baypiggies at python.org
> > > >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > > >>   http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > David Cramer
> > > > Lead Developer
> > > > Curse, Inc.
> > > >
> http://www.curse.com/_______________________________________________
> > > > Baypiggies mailing list
> > > > Baypiggies at python.org
> > > > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Baypiggies mailing list
> > > Baypiggies at python.org
> > > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> David Cramer
> Lead Developer
> Curse, Inc.
> http://www.curse.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


-- 
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From tpc247 at gmail.com  Sat Jun 16 00:35:13 2007
From: tpc247 at gmail.com (tpc247 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 15:35:13 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting
	details
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0706142009u30e08a13s6309d5e4ab9ceede@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
	<f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
	<8249c4ac0706142009u30e08a13s6309d5e4ab9ceede@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bae1efdf0706151535g623ff292kafbcd6f9607cfc37@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/14/07, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> We already have enough complainers, we need some maintainers
>
> Anyone who wants to volunteer to help Donna maintain the website,
> please step forward



hey guys, so not to beat up on Donna too much, but I seem to recall this
being a running theme in my interaction with Donna, where I'll be in
communication with her about something and for one reason or another, I do
not receive a follow-up.  I recall getting a similar response when I was in
touch with her about the Linux Picnic, and about when the next Plone Lounge
event was.  Now this may have something to do with Donna being a mother of
6, and running her own business, but bottom line is people are lead to
expect a reliable response which never comes.  I've made this an issue
before on the Plone Lounge mailing list, and it seems like it's happening
again here on the BayPIGgies mailing list.  For what it's worth I've
enclosed mail I've sent where I did exactly as Tony suggested, I volunteered
several months ago, and either Donna's response to me never arrived through
no fault of her own, or someone dropped the ball:

tpc247 at gmail.com <tpc247 at gmail.com>     Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 12:59 PM
To: Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com>


On 1/27/07, Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com> wrote:

    Last night I went to webfaction.com and (formerly python-hosting.com)
    and upgraded our Plone site to:

    Plone 2.5.1,
    CMF-1.6.2,
    Zope (Zope 2.9.5-final, python 2.4.0, linux2),
    Five 1.3.7,
    Python 2.4 (#1, Jul 24 2005, 05:05:49) [GCC 3.2.3 20030502 (Red Hat
    Linux 3.2.3-52)],
    PIL 1.1.5

    It is now located at
    http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone

    I will move Tony's book reviews to the new location...

    Here are the areas we should add...

    Meetings (of course)
    Jobs (we can have one member manage the job section.. or leave it open
    for site members to add their job through the system.. )
    Upcoming Conferences/Events
    Classes & Training

    We can also add blogs for those who want to report on their
    experiences at various Python related events.

    I could use another Plone type admin to work with me on getting this
    site done.. AND answer any questions from users. I have six kids and a
    full-time growing business... and I'm more than willing to give what I
    can..when I can.. but another Plonista or two would help get this
    Plone site live.. and once we do that.. many more people will have the
    ability to update the site.



hi Donna, six kids, my goodness.  I'd like to throw in some free labor your
way in exchange for a little more experience with Plone.  I wouldn't call
myself a Plonista, but I've been on the IRC channel, attended your
BayPIGgies talk, and installed Plone on Windows and Linux.

Best,

Thuon
tpc247 at gmail.com <tpc247 at gmail.com>     Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 1:57 AM
To: Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com>


On 1/27/07, Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com> wrote:

    Hi Thuon,

    You are more than welcome to help out. Let's figure out where you'd
    like to start. Maybe you can help move content from baypiggies.net to
    baypiggies.net/new/plone ?

    That is my biggest hold up..

    Donna


hey Donna, what you're asking for doesn't sound too difficult.  If I'm not
mistaken, first I would identify the Document Root for baypiggies.net, and
baypiggies.net/new/plone, and then just move the entire folder tree from the
former to the latter.  Am I missing something ?


Dennis Reinhardt <DennisR at dair.com>     Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 12:38 PM
To: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
At 11:19 AM 1/27/2007, Donna Snow wrote:
>can..when I can.. but another Plonista or two would help get this
>Plone site live.. and once we do that.. many more people will have the
>ability to update the site.

All I know about Plone, I learned in Donna's presentation.  I do not think
that qualifies me as a "Plonista".

I read here that Donna is asking for qualified help to get this website
moving forward.  How 'bout it folks?  Do we have anyone qualified in
setting up a Plone site who can help move this forward???

Regards, Dennis
 ---------------------------------
| Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
| Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
 ---------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
Baypiggies at python.org
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com>     Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 3:31 PM
To: Dennis Reinhardt <DennisR at dair.com>
Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
On 1/28/07, Dennis Reinhardt <DennisR at dair.com> wrote:
> At 11:19 AM 1/27/2007, Donna Snow wrote:
> >can..when I can.. but another Plonista or two would help get this
> >Plone site live.. and once we do that.. many more people will have the
> >ability to update the site.
>
> All I know about Plone, I learned in Donna's presentation.  I do not think
> that qualifies me as a "Plonista".
>
> I read here that Donna is asking for qualified help to get this website
> moving forward.  How 'bout it folks?  Do we have anyone qualified in
> setting up a Plone site who can help move this forward???

I can do it, but I fear I'm overextended too, although I'm only
working on kid 4 ;)

Happy Hacking!
-jj

--
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
[Quoted text hidden]
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From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Sat Jun 16 05:05:37 2007
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 20:05:37 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting
	details
In-Reply-To: <bae1efdf0706151535g623ff292kafbcd6f9607cfc37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
	<f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
	<8249c4ac0706142009u30e08a13s6309d5e4ab9ceede@mail.gmail.com>
	<bae1efdf0706151535g623ff292kafbcd6f9607cfc37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0706152005j5e55c1bcubbd0870c383dcf34@mail.gmail.com>

The site is setup.. it's a matter of moving the content from old site to new...

Which is why I offered a tutorial for next week on how to do just
that... there is a lot of potential here for collaboration with this
group on this Plone site...

I do apologize to those who didn't get "timely" responses.. I am in
fact extremely busy.... at least at the moment.. which is always a
good sign when you are self-employed.. when I stop being extremely
busy.. well that's when I have to worry..

Please keep in mind.. this is supposed to be social to a degree.. not
smack the webmaster on the head because the updates aren't getting
done.. it's a volunteer gig.. and I mentioned months ago that I was
getting so busy



On 6/15/07, tpc247 at gmail.com <tpc247 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 6/14/07, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > We already have enough complainers, we need some maintainers
> >
> > Anyone who wants to volunteer to help Donna maintain the website,
> > please step forward
>
>
> hey guys, so not to beat up on Donna too much, but I seem to recall this
> being a running theme in my interaction with Donna, where I'll be in
> communication with her about something and for one reason or another, I do
> not receive a follow-up.  I recall getting a similar response when I was in
> touch with her about the Linux Picnic, and about when the next Plone Lounge
> event was.  Now this may have something to do with Donna being a mother of
> 6, and running her own business, but bottom line is people are lead to
> expect a reliable response which never comes.  I've made this an issue
> before on the Plone Lounge mailing list, and it seems like it's happening
> again here on the BayPIGgies mailing list.  For what it's worth I've
> enclosed mail I've sent where I did exactly as Tony suggested, I volunteered
> several months ago, and either Donna's response to me never arrived through
> no fault of her own, or someone dropped the ball:
>
> tpc247 at gmail.com <tpc247 at gmail.com>     Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 12:59 PM
> To: Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com >
>
>
> On 1/27/07, Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>     Last night I went to webfaction.com and (formerly python-hosting.com)
>     and upgraded our Plone site to:
>
>     Plone 2.5.1,
>     CMF-1.6.2,
>     Zope (Zope 2.9.5-final, python 2.4.0, linux2),
>     Five 1.3.7,
>     Python 2.4 (#1, Jul 24 2005, 05:05:49) [GCC 3.2.3 20030502 (Red Hat
>     Linux 3.2.3-52)],
>     PIL 1.1.5
>
>     It is now located at
>     http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone
>
>     I will move Tony's book reviews to the new location...
>
>     Here are the areas we should add...
>
>     Meetings (of course)
>     Jobs (we can have one member manage the job section.. or leave it open
>     for site members to add their job through the system.. )
>     Upcoming Conferences/Events
>     Classes & Training
>
>     We can also add blogs for those who want to report on their
>     experiences at various Python related events.
>
>     I could use another Plone type admin to work with me on getting this
>     site done.. AND answer any questions from users. I have six kids and a
>     full-time growing business... and I'm more than willing to give what I
>     can..when I can.. but another Plonista or two would help get this
>     Plone site live.. and once we do that.. many more people will have the
>     ability to update the site.
>
>
>
> hi Donna, six kids, my goodness.  I'd like to throw in some free labor your
> way in exchange for a little more experience with Plone.  I wouldn't call
> myself a Plonista, but I've been on the IRC channel, attended your
> BayPIGgies talk, and installed Plone on Windows and Linux.
>
> Best,
>
> Thuon
> tpc247 at gmail.com <tpc247 at gmail.com>     Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 1:57 AM
> To: Donna Snow < donnamsnow at gmail.com>
>
>
> On 1/27/07, Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>     Hi Thuon,
>
>     You are more than welcome to help out. Let's figure out where you'd
>     like to start. Maybe you can help move content from baypiggies.net to
>     baypiggies.net/new/plone ?
>
>     That is my biggest hold up..
>
>     Donna
>
>
> hey Donna, what you're asking for doesn't sound too difficult.  If I'm not
> mistaken, first I would identify the Document Root for baypiggies.net , and
> baypiggies.net/new/plone, and then just move the entire folder tree from the
> former to the latter.  Am I missing something ?
>
>
> Dennis Reinhardt < DennisR at dair.com>     Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 12:38 PM
> To: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
> At 11:19 AM 1/27/2007, Donna Snow wrote:
> >can..when I can.. but another Plonista or two would help get this
> >Plone site live.. and once we do that.. many more people will have the
> >ability to update the site.
>
> All I know about Plone, I learned in Donna's presentation.  I do not think
> that qualifies me as a "Plonista".
>
> I read here that Donna is asking for qualified help to get this website
> moving forward.  How 'bout it folks?  Do we have anyone qualified in
> setting up a Plone site who can help move this forward???
>
>  Regards, Dennis
>  ---------------------------------
> | Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
> | Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
>  ---------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com>     Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 3:31 PM
> To: Dennis Reinhardt < DennisR at dair.com>
> Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
> On 1/28/07, Dennis Reinhardt <DennisR at dair.com> wrote:
> > At 11:19 AM 1/27/2007, Donna Snow wrote:
> > >can..when I can.. but another Plonista or two would help get this
> > >Plone site live.. and once we do that.. many more people will have the
> > >ability to update the site.
> >
> > All I know about Plone, I learned in Donna's presentation.  I do not think
> > that qualifies me as a "Plonista".
> >
> > I read here that Donna is asking for qualified help to get this website
> > moving forward.  How 'bout it folks?  Do we have anyone qualified in
> > setting up a Plone site who can help move this forward???
>
> I can do it, but I fear I'm overextended too, although I'm only
> working on kid 4 ;)
>
> Happy Hacking!
> -jj
>
> --
>  http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> [Quoted text hidden]
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Sat Jun 16 05:07:20 2007
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 20:07:20 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting
	details
In-Reply-To: <bae1efdf0706151535g623ff292kafbcd6f9607cfc37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
	<f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
	<8249c4ac0706142009u30e08a13s6309d5e4ab9ceede@mail.gmail.com>
	<bae1efdf0706151535g623ff292kafbcd6f9607cfc37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0706152007m88f6686hdeb3dddef0ffcc34@mail.gmail.com>

sorry that went out faster than I'd planned..

anyway.. let's just get the Plone site updated with content.. anyone
who wants to learn how to update.. please come to the online meeting..
I'll set it for next Thursday the 21st at 7pm...

I'll post the GoToMeeting online conference room closer to that date...

And let's get back to talking about Python :-)

Donna



On 6/15/07, tpc247 at gmail.com <tpc247 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 6/14/07, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > We already have enough complainers, we need some maintainers
> >
> > Anyone who wants to volunteer to help Donna maintain the website,
> > please step forward
>
>
> hey guys, so not to beat up on Donna too much, but I seem to recall this
> being a running theme in my interaction with Donna, where I'll be in
> communication with her about something and for one reason or another, I do
> not receive a follow-up.  I recall getting a similar response when I was in
> touch with her about the Linux Picnic, and about when the next Plone Lounge
> event was.  Now this may have something to do with Donna being a mother of
> 6, and running her own business, but bottom line is people are lead to
> expect a reliable response which never comes.  I've made this an issue
> before on the Plone Lounge mailing list, and it seems like it's happening
> again here on the BayPIGgies mailing list.  For what it's worth I've
> enclosed mail I've sent where I did exactly as Tony suggested, I volunteered
> several months ago, and either Donna's response to me never arrived through
> no fault of her own, or someone dropped the ball:
>
> tpc247 at gmail.com <tpc247 at gmail.com>     Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 12:59 PM
> To: Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com >
>
>
> On 1/27/07, Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>     Last night I went to webfaction.com and (formerly python-hosting.com)
>     and upgraded our Plone site to:
>
>     Plone 2.5.1,
>     CMF-1.6.2,
>     Zope (Zope 2.9.5-final, python 2.4.0, linux2),
>     Five 1.3.7,
>     Python 2.4 (#1, Jul 24 2005, 05:05:49) [GCC 3.2.3 20030502 (Red Hat
>     Linux 3.2.3-52)],
>     PIL 1.1.5
>
>     It is now located at
>     http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone
>
>     I will move Tony's book reviews to the new location...
>
>     Here are the areas we should add...
>
>     Meetings (of course)
>     Jobs (we can have one member manage the job section.. or leave it open
>     for site members to add their job through the system.. )
>     Upcoming Conferences/Events
>     Classes & Training
>
>     We can also add blogs for those who want to report on their
>     experiences at various Python related events.
>
>     I could use another Plone type admin to work with me on getting this
>     site done.. AND answer any questions from users. I have six kids and a
>     full-time growing business... and I'm more than willing to give what I
>     can..when I can.. but another Plonista or two would help get this
>     Plone site live.. and once we do that.. many more people will have the
>     ability to update the site.
>
>
>
> hi Donna, six kids, my goodness.  I'd like to throw in some free labor your
> way in exchange for a little more experience with Plone.  I wouldn't call
> myself a Plonista, but I've been on the IRC channel, attended your
> BayPIGgies talk, and installed Plone on Windows and Linux.
>
> Best,
>
> Thuon
> tpc247 at gmail.com <tpc247 at gmail.com>     Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 1:57 AM
> To: Donna Snow < donnamsnow at gmail.com>
>
>
> On 1/27/07, Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>     Hi Thuon,
>
>     You are more than welcome to help out. Let's figure out where you'd
>     like to start. Maybe you can help move content from baypiggies.net to
>     baypiggies.net/new/plone ?
>
>     That is my biggest hold up..
>
>     Donna
>
>
> hey Donna, what you're asking for doesn't sound too difficult.  If I'm not
> mistaken, first I would identify the Document Root for baypiggies.net , and
> baypiggies.net/new/plone, and then just move the entire folder tree from the
> former to the latter.  Am I missing something ?
>
>
> Dennis Reinhardt < DennisR at dair.com>     Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 12:38 PM
> To: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
> At 11:19 AM 1/27/2007, Donna Snow wrote:
> >can..when I can.. but another Plonista or two would help get this
> >Plone site live.. and once we do that.. many more people will have the
> >ability to update the site.
>
> All I know about Plone, I learned in Donna's presentation.  I do not think
> that qualifies me as a "Plonista".
>
> I read here that Donna is asking for qualified help to get this website
> moving forward.  How 'bout it folks?  Do we have anyone qualified in
> setting up a Plone site who can help move this forward???
>
>  Regards, Dennis
>  ---------------------------------
> | Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
> | Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
>  ---------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com>     Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 3:31 PM
> To: Dennis Reinhardt < DennisR at dair.com>
> Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
> On 1/28/07, Dennis Reinhardt <DennisR at dair.com> wrote:
> > At 11:19 AM 1/27/2007, Donna Snow wrote:
> > >can..when I can.. but another Plonista or two would help get this
> > >Plone site live.. and once we do that.. many more people will have the
> > >ability to update the site.
> >
> > All I know about Plone, I learned in Donna's presentation.  I do not think
> > that qualifies me as a "Plonista".
> >
> > I read here that Donna is asking for qualified help to get this website
> > moving forward.  How 'bout it folks?  Do we have anyone qualified in
> > setting up a Plone site who can help move this forward???
>
> I can do it, but I fear I'm overextended too, although I'm only
> working on kid 4 ;)
>
> Happy Hacking!
> -jj
>
> --
>  http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> [Quoted text hidden]
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From jjinux at gmail.com  Sat Jun 16 09:18:55 2007
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 00:18:55 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting
	details
In-Reply-To: <baf0d46b0706152005j5e55c1bcubbd0870c383dcf34@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
	<f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
	<8249c4ac0706142009u30e08a13s6309d5e4ab9ceede@mail.gmail.com>
	<bae1efdf0706151535g623ff292kafbcd6f9607cfc37@mail.gmail.com>
	<baf0d46b0706152005j5e55c1bcubbd0870c383dcf34@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90706160018k55746d8ra20306066db51c49@mail.gmail.com>

Donna,

Thanks for all your hard work.  We really appreciate it.  I only have
3 kids at this point, so I stand in amazement.  What do we need to do
to make the Plone site *the* public facing Web site?  Once the cut
over is done, updating it will probably take care of itself.

Best Regards,
-jj

On 6/15/07, Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com> wrote:
> The site is setup.. it's a matter of moving the content from old site to new...
>
> Which is why I offered a tutorial for next week on how to do just
> that... there is a lot of potential here for collaboration with this
> group on this Plone site...
>
> I do apologize to those who didn't get "timely" responses.. I am in
> fact extremely busy.... at least at the moment.. which is always a
> good sign when you are self-employed.. when I stop being extremely
> busy.. well that's when I have to worry..
>
> Please keep in mind.. this is supposed to be social to a degree.. not
> smack the webmaster on the head because the updates aren't getting
> done.. it's a volunteer gig.. and I mentioned months ago that I was
> getting so busy
>
>
>
> On 6/15/07, tpc247 at gmail.com <tpc247 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 6/14/07, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > We already have enough complainers, we need some maintainers
> > >
> > > Anyone who wants to volunteer to help Donna maintain the website,
> > > please step forward
> >
> >
> > hey guys, so not to beat up on Donna too much, but I seem to recall this
> > being a running theme in my interaction with Donna, where I'll be in
> > communication with her about something and for one reason or another, I do
> > not receive a follow-up.  I recall getting a similar response when I was in
> > touch with her about the Linux Picnic, and about when the next Plone Lounge
> > event was.  Now this may have something to do with Donna being a mother of
> > 6, and running her own business, but bottom line is people are lead to
> > expect a reliable response which never comes.  I've made this an issue
> > before on the Plone Lounge mailing list, and it seems like it's happening
> > again here on the BayPIGgies mailing list.  For what it's worth I've
> > enclosed mail I've sent where I did exactly as Tony suggested, I volunteered
> > several months ago, and either Donna's response to me never arrived through
> > no fault of her own, or someone dropped the ball:
> >
> > tpc247 at gmail.com <tpc247 at gmail.com>     Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 12:59 PM
> > To: Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com >
> >
> >
> > On 1/27/07, Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >     Last night I went to webfaction.com and (formerly python-hosting.com)
> >     and upgraded our Plone site to:
> >
> >     Plone 2.5.1,
> >     CMF-1.6.2,
> >     Zope (Zope 2.9.5-final, python 2.4.0, linux2),
> >     Five 1.3.7,
> >     Python 2.4 (#1, Jul 24 2005, 05:05:49) [GCC 3.2.3 20030502 (Red Hat
> >     Linux 3.2.3-52)],
> >     PIL 1.1.5
> >
> >     It is now located at
> >     http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone
> >
> >     I will move Tony's book reviews to the new location...
> >
> >     Here are the areas we should add...
> >
> >     Meetings (of course)
> >     Jobs (we can have one member manage the job section.. or leave it open
> >     for site members to add their job through the system.. )
> >     Upcoming Conferences/Events
> >     Classes & Training
> >
> >     We can also add blogs for those who want to report on their
> >     experiences at various Python related events.
> >
> >     I could use another Plone type admin to work with me on getting this
> >     site done.. AND answer any questions from users. I have six kids and a
> >     full-time growing business... and I'm more than willing to give what I
> >     can..when I can.. but another Plonista or two would help get this
> >     Plone site live.. and once we do that.. many more people will have the
> >     ability to update the site.
> >
> >
> >
> > hi Donna, six kids, my goodness.  I'd like to throw in some free labor your
> > way in exchange for a little more experience with Plone.  I wouldn't call
> > myself a Plonista, but I've been on the IRC channel, attended your
> > BayPIGgies talk, and installed Plone on Windows and Linux.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Thuon
> > tpc247 at gmail.com <tpc247 at gmail.com>     Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 1:57 AM
> > To: Donna Snow < donnamsnow at gmail.com>
> >
> >
> > On 1/27/07, Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >     Hi Thuon,
> >
> >     You are more than welcome to help out. Let's figure out where you'd
> >     like to start. Maybe you can help move content from baypiggies.net to
> >     baypiggies.net/new/plone ?
> >
> >     That is my biggest hold up..
> >
> >     Donna
> >
> >
> > hey Donna, what you're asking for doesn't sound too difficult.  If I'm not
> > mistaken, first I would identify the Document Root for baypiggies.net , and
> > baypiggies.net/new/plone, and then just move the entire folder tree from the
> > former to the latter.  Am I missing something ?
> >
> >
> > Dennis Reinhardt < DennisR at dair.com>     Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 12:38 PM
> > To: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
> > At 11:19 AM 1/27/2007, Donna Snow wrote:
> > >can..when I can.. but another Plonista or two would help get this
> > >Plone site live.. and once we do that.. many more people will have the
> > >ability to update the site.
> >
> > All I know about Plone, I learned in Donna's presentation.  I do not think
> > that qualifies me as a "Plonista".
> >
> > I read here that Donna is asking for qualified help to get this website
> > moving forward.  How 'bout it folks?  Do we have anyone qualified in
> > setting up a Plone site who can help move this forward???
> >
> >  Regards, Dennis
> >  ---------------------------------
> > | Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
> > | Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
> >  ---------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> > Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com>     Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 3:31 PM
> > To: Dennis Reinhardt < DennisR at dair.com>
> > Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
> > On 1/28/07, Dennis Reinhardt <DennisR at dair.com> wrote:
> > > At 11:19 AM 1/27/2007, Donna Snow wrote:
> > > >can..when I can.. but another Plonista or two would help get this
> > > >Plone site live.. and once we do that.. many more people will have the
> > > >ability to update the site.
> > >
> > > All I know about Plone, I learned in Donna's presentation.  I do not think
> > > that qualifies me as a "Plonista".
> > >
> > > I read here that Donna is asking for qualified help to get this website
> > > moving forward.  How 'bout it folks?  Do we have anyone qualified in
> > > setting up a Plone site who can help move this forward???
> >
> > I can do it, but I fear I'm overextended too, although I'm only
> > working on kid 4 ;)
> >
> > Happy Hacking!
> > -jj
> >
> > --
> >  http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> > [Quoted text hidden]
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


-- 
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From jim at well.com  Sat Jun 16 17:54:35 2007
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 08:54:35 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting
	details
In-Reply-To: <baf0d46b0706152007m88f6686hdeb3dddef0ffcc34@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
	<f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
	<8249c4ac0706142009u30e08a13s6309d5e4ab9ceede@mail.gmail.com>
	<bae1efdf0706151535g623ff292kafbcd6f9607cfc37@mail.gmail.com>
	<baf0d46b0706152007m88f6686hdeb3dddef0ffcc34@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26c742840a67e876d18faa01f1ba6ff7@well.com>


I can't make Thursday 6/21. is there a way of
making a record?

On Jun 15, 2007, at 8:07 PM, Donna Snow wrote:

> sorry that went out faster than I'd planned..
>
> anyway.. let's just get the Plone site updated with content.. anyone
> who wants to learn how to update.. please come to the online meeting..
> I'll set it for next Thursday the 21st at 7pm...
>
> I'll post the GoToMeeting online conference room closer to that date...
>
> And let's get back to talking about Python :-)
>
> Donna
>
>
>
> On 6/15/07, tpc247 at gmail.com <tpc247 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 6/14/07, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> We already have enough complainers, we need some maintainers
>>>
>>> Anyone who wants to volunteer to help Donna maintain the website,
>>> please step forward
>>
>>
>> hey guys, so not to beat up on Donna too much, but I seem to recall 
>> this
>> being a running theme in my interaction with Donna, where I'll be in
>> communication with her about something and for one reason or another, 
>> I do
>> not receive a follow-up.  I recall getting a similar response when I 
>> was in
>> touch with her about the Linux Picnic, and about when the next Plone 
>> Lounge
>> event was.  Now this may have something to do with Donna being a 
>> mother of
>> 6, and running her own business, but bottom line is people are lead to
>> expect a reliable response which never comes.  I've made this an issue
>> before on the Plone Lounge mailing list, and it seems like it's 
>> happening
>> again here on the BayPIGgies mailing list.  For what it's worth I've
>> enclosed mail I've sent where I did exactly as Tony suggested, I 
>> volunteered
>> several months ago, and either Donna's response to me never arrived 
>> through
>> no fault of her own, or someone dropped the ball:
>>
>> tpc247 at gmail.com <tpc247 at gmail.com>     Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 12:59 PM
>> To: Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com >
>>
>>
>> On 1/27/07, Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>     Last night I went to webfaction.com and (formerly 
>> python-hosting.com)
>>     and upgraded our Plone site to:
>>
>>     Plone 2.5.1,
>>     CMF-1.6.2,
>>     Zope (Zope 2.9.5-final, python 2.4.0, linux2),
>>     Five 1.3.7,
>>     Python 2.4 (#1, Jul 24 2005, 05:05:49) [GCC 3.2.3 20030502 (Red 
>> Hat
>>     Linux 3.2.3-52)],
>>     PIL 1.1.5
>>
>>     It is now located at
>>     http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone
>>
>>     I will move Tony's book reviews to the new location...
>>
>>     Here are the areas we should add...
>>
>>     Meetings (of course)
>>     Jobs (we can have one member manage the job section.. or leave it 
>> open
>>     for site members to add their job through the system.. )
>>     Upcoming Conferences/Events
>>     Classes & Training
>>
>>     We can also add blogs for those who want to report on their
>>     experiences at various Python related events.
>>
>>     I could use another Plone type admin to work with me on getting 
>> this
>>     site done.. AND answer any questions from users. I have six kids 
>> and a
>>     full-time growing business... and I'm more than willing to give 
>> what I
>>     can..when I can.. but another Plonista or two would help get this
>>     Plone site live.. and once we do that.. many more people will 
>> have the
>>     ability to update the site.
>>
>>
>>
>> hi Donna, six kids, my goodness.  I'd like to throw in some free 
>> labor your
>> way in exchange for a little more experience with Plone.  I wouldn't 
>> call
>> myself a Plonista, but I've been on the IRC channel, attended your
>> BayPIGgies talk, and installed Plone on Windows and Linux.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Thuon
>> tpc247 at gmail.com <tpc247 at gmail.com>     Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 1:57 AM
>> To: Donna Snow < donnamsnow at gmail.com>
>>
>>
>> On 1/27/07, Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi Thuon,
>>
>>     You are more than welcome to help out. Let's figure out where 
>> you'd
>>     like to start. Maybe you can help move content from 
>> baypiggies.net to
>>     baypiggies.net/new/plone ?
>>
>>     That is my biggest hold up..
>>
>>     Donna
>>
>>
>> hey Donna, what you're asking for doesn't sound too difficult.  If 
>> I'm not
>> mistaken, first I would identify the Document Root for baypiggies.net 
>> , and
>> baypiggies.net/new/plone, and then just move the entire folder tree 
>> from the
>> former to the latter.  Am I missing something ?
>>
>>
>> Dennis Reinhardt < DennisR at dair.com>     Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 12:38 PM
>> To: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
>> At 11:19 AM 1/27/2007, Donna Snow wrote:
>>> can..when I can.. but another Plonista or two would help get this
>>> Plone site live.. and once we do that.. many more people will have 
>>> the
>>> ability to update the site.
>>
>> All I know about Plone, I learned in Donna's presentation.  I do not 
>> think
>> that qualifies me as a "Plonista".
>>
>> I read here that Donna is asking for qualified help to get this 
>> website
>> moving forward.  How 'bout it folks?  Do we have anyone qualified in
>> setting up a Plone site who can help move this forward???
>>
>>  Regards, Dennis
>>  ---------------------------------
>> | Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
>> | Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
>>  ---------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>> Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com>     Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 3:31 
>> PM
>> To: Dennis Reinhardt < DennisR at dair.com>
>> Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
>> On 1/28/07, Dennis Reinhardt <DennisR at dair.com> wrote:
>>> At 11:19 AM 1/27/2007, Donna Snow wrote:
>>>> can..when I can.. but another Plonista or two would help get this
>>>> Plone site live.. and once we do that.. many more people will have 
>>>> the
>>>> ability to update the site.
>>>
>>> All I know about Plone, I learned in Donna's presentation.  I do not 
>>> think
>>> that qualifies me as a "Plonista".
>>>
>>> I read here that Donna is asking for qualified help to get this 
>>> website
>>> moving forward.  How 'bout it folks?  Do we have anyone qualified in
>>> setting up a Plone site who can help move this forward???
>>
>> I can do it, but I fear I'm overextended too, although I'm only
>> working on kid 4 ;)
>>
>> Happy Hacking!
>> -jj
>>
>> --
>>  http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
>> [Quoted text hidden]
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Sat Jun 16 18:43:29 2007
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 09:43:29 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting
	details
In-Reply-To: <26c742840a67e876d18faa01f1ba6ff7@well.com>
References: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
	<f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
	<8249c4ac0706142009u30e08a13s6309d5e4ab9ceede@mail.gmail.com>
	<bae1efdf0706151535g623ff292kafbcd6f9607cfc37@mail.gmail.com>
	<baf0d46b0706152007m88f6686hdeb3dddef0ffcc34@mail.gmail.com>
	<26c742840a67e876d18faa01f1ba6ff7@well.com>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0706160943p4ac1029etca50b55bec9d192d@mail.gmail.com>

Jim,

I'm a bit of a newbie with the GoToMeeting myself.. but I "believe"
so.. I believe I can record  it. I'll check into it this weekend..

Donna

On 6/16/07, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
> I can't make Thursday 6/21. is there a way of
> making a record?
>
> On Jun 15, 2007, at 8:07 PM, Donna Snow wrote:
>
> > sorry that went out faster than I'd planned..
> >
> > anyway.. let's just get the Plone site updated with content.. anyone
> > who wants to learn how to update.. please come to the online meeting..
> > I'll set it for next Thursday the 21st at 7pm...
> >
> > I'll post the GoToMeeting online conference room closer to that date...
> >
> > And let's get back to talking about Python :-)
> >
> > Donna
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6/15/07, tpc247 at gmail.com <tpc247 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 6/14/07, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> We already have enough complainers, we need some maintainers
> >>>
> >>> Anyone who wants to volunteer to help Donna maintain the website,
> >>> please step forward
> >>
> >>
> >> hey guys, so not to beat up on Donna too much, but I seem to recall
> >> this
> >> being a running theme in my interaction with Donna, where I'll be in
> >> communication with her about something and for one reason or another,
> >> I do
> >> not receive a follow-up.  I recall getting a similar response when I
> >> was in
> >> touch with her about the Linux Picnic, and about when the next Plone
> >> Lounge
> >> event was.  Now this may have something to do with Donna being a
> >> mother of
> >> 6, and running her own business, but bottom line is people are lead to
> >> expect a reliable response which never comes.  I've made this an issue
> >> before on the Plone Lounge mailing list, and it seems like it's
> >> happening
> >> again here on the BayPIGgies mailing list.  For what it's worth I've
> >> enclosed mail I've sent where I did exactly as Tony suggested, I
> >> volunteered
> >> several months ago, and either Donna's response to me never arrived
> >> through
> >> no fault of her own, or someone dropped the ball:
> >>
> >> tpc247 at gmail.com <tpc247 at gmail.com>     Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 12:59 PM
> >> To: Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com >
> >>
> >>
> >> On 1/27/07, Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>     Last night I went to webfaction.com and (formerly
> >> python-hosting.com)
> >>     and upgraded our Plone site to:
> >>
> >>     Plone 2.5.1,
> >>     CMF-1.6.2,
> >>     Zope (Zope 2.9.5-final, python 2.4.0, linux2),
> >>     Five 1.3.7,
> >>     Python 2.4 (#1, Jul 24 2005, 05:05:49) [GCC 3.2.3 20030502 (Red
> >> Hat
> >>     Linux 3.2.3-52)],
> >>     PIL 1.1.5
> >>
> >>     It is now located at
> >>     http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone
> >>
> >>     I will move Tony's book reviews to the new location...
> >>
> >>     Here are the areas we should add...
> >>
> >>     Meetings (of course)
> >>     Jobs (we can have one member manage the job section.. or leave it
> >> open
> >>     for site members to add their job through the system.. )
> >>     Upcoming Conferences/Events
> >>     Classes & Training
> >>
> >>     We can also add blogs for those who want to report on their
> >>     experiences at various Python related events.
> >>
> >>     I could use another Plone type admin to work with me on getting
> >> this
> >>     site done.. AND answer any questions from users. I have six kids
> >> and a
> >>     full-time growing business... and I'm more than willing to give
> >> what I
> >>     can..when I can.. but another Plonista or two would help get this
> >>     Plone site live.. and once we do that.. many more people will
> >> have the
> >>     ability to update the site.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> hi Donna, six kids, my goodness.  I'd like to throw in some free
> >> labor your
> >> way in exchange for a little more experience with Plone.  I wouldn't
> >> call
> >> myself a Plonista, but I've been on the IRC channel, attended your
> >> BayPIGgies talk, and installed Plone on Windows and Linux.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Thuon
> >> tpc247 at gmail.com <tpc247 at gmail.com>     Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 1:57 AM
> >> To: Donna Snow < donnamsnow at gmail.com>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 1/27/07, Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>     Hi Thuon,
> >>
> >>     You are more than welcome to help out. Let's figure out where
> >> you'd
> >>     like to start. Maybe you can help move content from
> >> baypiggies.net to
> >>     baypiggies.net/new/plone ?
> >>
> >>     That is my biggest hold up..
> >>
> >>     Donna
> >>
> >>
> >> hey Donna, what you're asking for doesn't sound too difficult.  If
> >> I'm not
> >> mistaken, first I would identify the Document Root for baypiggies.net
> >> , and
> >> baypiggies.net/new/plone, and then just move the entire folder tree
> >> from the
> >> former to the latter.  Am I missing something ?
> >>
> >>
> >> Dennis Reinhardt < DennisR at dair.com>     Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 12:38 PM
> >> To: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
> >> At 11:19 AM 1/27/2007, Donna Snow wrote:
> >>> can..when I can.. but another Plonista or two would help get this
> >>> Plone site live.. and once we do that.. many more people will have
> >>> the
> >>> ability to update the site.
> >>
> >> All I know about Plone, I learned in Donna's presentation.  I do not
> >> think
> >> that qualifies me as a "Plonista".
> >>
> >> I read here that Donna is asking for qualified help to get this
> >> website
> >> moving forward.  How 'bout it folks?  Do we have anyone qualified in
> >> setting up a Plone site who can help move this forward???
> >>
> >>  Regards, Dennis
> >>  ---------------------------------
> >> | Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
> >> | Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
> >>  ---------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Baypiggies mailing list
> >> Baypiggies at python.org
> >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> >>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >> Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com>     Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 3:31
> >> PM
> >> To: Dennis Reinhardt < DennisR at dair.com>
> >> Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
> >> On 1/28/07, Dennis Reinhardt <DennisR at dair.com> wrote:
> >>> At 11:19 AM 1/27/2007, Donna Snow wrote:
> >>>> can..when I can.. but another Plonista or two would help get this
> >>>> Plone site live.. and once we do that.. many more people will have
> >>>> the
> >>>> ability to update the site.
> >>>
> >>> All I know about Plone, I learned in Donna's presentation.  I do not
> >>> think
> >>> that qualifies me as a "Plonista".
> >>>
> >>> I read here that Donna is asking for qualified help to get this
> >>> website
> >>> moving forward.  How 'bout it folks?  Do we have anyone qualified in
> >>> setting up a Plone site who can help move this forward???
> >>
> >> I can do it, but I fear I'm overextended too, although I'm only
> >> working on kid 4 ;)
> >>
> >> Happy Hacking!
> >> -jj
> >>
> >> --
> >>  http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> >> [Quoted text hidden]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Baypiggies mailing list
> >> Baypiggies at python.org
> >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
>
>

From keith at dartworks.biz  Wed Jun 20 11:57:57 2007
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 02:57:57 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Major improvements to XML/XHTML handling in Pycopia
Message-ID: <20070620025757.35772c0e@tinker.homenetwork>

I've just completed a major overhaul of the XML/XHTML portions of
Pycopia. It now handles various encodings and languages much better,
and is also much faster. Some of the XHTML modules has been refactored
into the XML module.

The Mako benchmark shows about a 150% speed improvement in simple page
rendering:

891 $ python basic.py mako django genshi Pycopia pyNMS
Mako: 0.45 ms
Django: 1.33 ms
Genshi: 5.24 ms
Pycopia: 2.69 ms
Pynms: 4.44 ms

This shows basic page rendering times. Mako and Django are templating
systems so parts of the page are static. Genshi, PyNMS, and Pycopia
are purely dynamic, pure Python page generators. However, the Pycopia
and PyNMS generators also do on-the-fly attribute validation of the
page. Pycopia is now almost twice as fast as Genshi, and more
featureful also.  For example, only Pycopia can generate correct WML
pages in pure Python.

It is now possible to do encoding translations. Fetch a document in
one encoding, and write it in another. For  example, read a shiftjis
and write a utf-8 page, or vice-versa (as long as the charset maps).

Support for all the major XHTML and WML flavors is also there,
including XHTML 1.1,  XHTML mobile 2.0, and WML 2.0. The parser does
partial validation of same when parsing (tag and attribute names), and
generating. The system is semantically idempotent.


-- 

-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================

From jjinux at gmail.com  Thu Jun 21 10:38:47 2007
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 01:38:47 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Major improvements to XML/XHTML handling in Pycopia
In-Reply-To: <20070620025757.35772c0e@tinker.homenetwork>
References: <20070620025757.35772c0e@tinker.homenetwork>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90706210138uaaff869k2e27ac7ca43bd382@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/20/07, Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz> wrote:
> I've just completed a major overhaul of the XML/XHTML portions of
> Pycopia. It now handles various encodings and languages much better,
> and is also much faster. Some of the XHTML modules has been refactored
> into the XML module.
>
> The Mako benchmark shows about a 150% speed improvement in simple page
> rendering:
>
> 891 $ python basic.py mako django genshi Pycopia pyNMS
> Mako: 0.45 ms
> Django: 1.33 ms
> Genshi: 5.24 ms
> Pycopia: 2.69 ms
> Pynms: 4.44 ms
>
> This shows basic page rendering times. Mako and Django are templating
> systems so parts of the page are static. Genshi, PyNMS, and Pycopia
> are purely dynamic, pure Python page generators. However, the Pycopia
> and PyNMS generators also do on-the-fly attribute validation of the
> page. Pycopia is now almost twice as fast as Genshi, and more
> featureful also.  For example, only Pycopia can generate correct WML
> pages in pure Python.
>
> It is now possible to do encoding translations. Fetch a document in
> one encoding, and write it in another. For  example, read a shiftjis
> and write a utf-8 page, or vice-versa (as long as the charset maps).
>
> Support for all the major XHTML and WML flavors is also there,
> including XHTML 1.1,  XHTML mobile 2.0, and WML 2.0. The parser does
> partial validation of same when parsing (tag and attribute names), and
> generating. The system is semantically idempotent.

I don't have anything against Pycopia, but as a general statement, *I
love Genshi*!  The match/xpath mechanism lets me code a generic look
and feel and have multiple layers of code (project, section,
department, whatever) that customize that look and feel.  It's like a
version of XSLT that's suddenly both friendly and performant.
Furthermore, I can't mostly ignore XSS problems.  I've used a lot of
templating languages over the years, but Genshi has definitely been my
favorite.

As for performance, I just don't care.  Genshi improves my
productivity, and templating engines running on Web servers are
horizontally scalable.  It'd have to be another order of magnitude
slower before I'd start worrying about it.

Happy Hacking!
-jj

-- 
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From keith at dartworks.biz  Thu Jun 21 23:22:53 2007
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:22:53 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Major improvements to XML/XHTML handling in Pycopia
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90706210138uaaff869k2e27ac7ca43bd382@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070620025757.35772c0e@tinker.homenetwork>
	<c41f67b90706210138uaaff869k2e27ac7ca43bd382@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070621142253.3a6bd75d@tinker.homenetwork>

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 01:38:47 -0700
"Shannon -jj Behrens" <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't have anything against Pycopia, but as a general statement, *I
> love Genshi*! 

I'm happy for you. Far be it from me to destroy your love. But there
are others on this list that might be interested in Pycopia and it's
fast, standards compliant output, pure Python XML handling. ;-)

-- 

-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================

From matt at matt-good.net  Fri Jun 22 00:14:43 2007
From: matt at matt-good.net (Matt Good)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:14:43 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Major improvements to XML/XHTML handling in Pycopia
In-Reply-To: <20070620025757.35772c0e@tinker.homenetwork>
References: <20070620025757.35772c0e@tinker.homenetwork>
Message-ID: <FCE489FB-DFF9-47D0-9DAB-55D1969E2727@matt-good.net>

On Jun 20, 2007, at 2:57 AM, Keith Dart wrote:

> This shows basic page rendering times. Mako and Django are templating
> systems so parts of the page are static. Genshi, PyNMS, and Pycopia
> are purely dynamic, pure Python page generators.

Well, Genshi is a templating system too.  I take it you're using the  
builder API[1] and not the Genshi template language.

> However, the Pycopia
> and PyNMS generators also do on-the-fly attribute validation of the
> page. Pycopia is now almost twice as fast as Genshi, and more
> featureful also.  For example, only Pycopia can generate correct WML
> pages in pure Python.

So what's wrong with the Genshi WML output?  The Genshi builder API  
may not be as powerful since it's generally just been used to make  
small snippets to include in Genshi templates.  For example in Trac  
plugins use it to generate links for the menu bar, but most HTML  
content is in the template files.

I haven't had a need for on-the-fly validation, but it shouldn't be  
hard to write a Genshi filter to do it.

Since there are still no docs (hint, hint) it's hard to know exactly  
how Pycopia compares, but it might be more meaningful to compare it  
to Stan or Breve which are also meant to be pure-Python XML  
generators, while Genshi is more focused on templating.

It's probably also worth noting that Genshi supports HTML 4.01 output  
in addition to XML and XHTML.

-- Matt

[1] http://genshi.edgewall.org/wiki/ApiDocs/genshi.builder

From tpc247 at gmail.com  Fri Jun 22 02:05:31 2007
From: tpc247 at gmail.com (tpc247 at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:05:31 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting
	details
In-Reply-To: <baf0d46b0706152007m88f6686hdeb3dddef0ffcc34@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
	<f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
	<8249c4ac0706142009u30e08a13s6309d5e4ab9ceede@mail.gmail.com>
	<bae1efdf0706151535g623ff292kafbcd6f9607cfc37@mail.gmail.com>
	<baf0d46b0706152007m88f6686hdeb3dddef0ffcc34@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bae1efdf0706211705x7fa135cbu6bfb41f0f9aa164c@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/15/07, Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> sorry that went out faster than I'd planned..
>
> anyway.. let's just get the Plone site updated with content.. anyone
> who wants to learn how to update.. please come to the online meeting..
> I'll set it for next Thursday the 21st at 7pm...
>
> I'll post the GoToMeeting online conference room closer to that date...
>
> And let's get back to talking about Python :-)
>
> Donna


hey Donna, I'm not sure if you've had a chance to post a Gotomeeting room
for the Plone instance training tonight, but I wanted to let you know I'd be
interested in such.
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From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Fri Jun 22 02:57:45 2007
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:57:45 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] baypiggies.net doesn't have tonight's meeting
	details
In-Reply-To: <bae1efdf0706211705x7fa135cbu6bfb41f0f9aa164c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY111-F365DBB44E74FAFB193A44EA01F0@phx.gbl>
	<f470871d0706141532s5ff5e079v2d8385f08c1e323d@mail.gmail.com>
	<8249c4ac0706142009u30e08a13s6309d5e4ab9ceede@mail.gmail.com>
	<bae1efdf0706151535g623ff292kafbcd6f9607cfc37@mail.gmail.com>
	<baf0d46b0706152007m88f6686hdeb3dddef0ffcc34@mail.gmail.com>
	<bae1efdf0706211705x7fa135cbu6bfb41f0f9aa164c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0706211757g747f141cs7948c75d9cfd918f@mail.gmail.com>

I'm going to have to postpone the online gathering.. but we will still
have it..

I'm a co-coordinator for the Plone sprint at Google next week and it's
taken up more time than anticipated.. sooo..I'm going to have to put
off our online training until the first week in July.. (just not the
4th of July)...

Are you guys gonna be around on the 5th or 6th of July??

Donna

On 6/21/07, tpc247 at gmail.com <tpc247 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 6/15/07, Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com> wrote:
> > sorry that went out faster than I'd planned..
> >
> > anyway.. let's just get the Plone site updated with content.. anyone
> > who wants to learn how to update.. please come to the online meeting..
> > I'll set it for next Thursday the 21st at 7pm...
> >
> > I'll post the GoToMeeting online conference room closer to that date...
> >
> > And let's get back to talking about Python :-)
> >
> > Donna
>
> hey Donna, I'm not sure if you've had a chance to post a Gotomeeting room
> for the Plone instance training tonight, but I wanted to let you know I'd be
> interested in such.
>
>
>

From ken at seehart.com  Sat Jun 23 04:24:45 2007
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 19:24:45 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [Fwd: C wrappers and the proxy dilemma]
In-Reply-To: <467C6B30.40008@hotmail.com>
References: <467C5282.9040308@seehart.com> <467C6B30.40008@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <467C846D.5030509@seehart.com>


Kevin B wrote:
> Looks good.  Somehow, the __overload__ also has to catch all stuff 
> coming back from c.
> In your example.. if instead of GetChildren, there was a 
> c_foo.GetAchild(). Then __overload__ would have to know the return 
> type of the c_foo function (I guess it could check the PyObject and 
> see that it is c_foo type), then automatically wrap it in a python_foo 
> object imediately on coming out of the C code.  In other words, there 
> would never be a c_foo object in python code, all c_foo objects woudl 
> automatically be wrapped/unrapped at the C Module/python boundry.
>
> Seems possible with a language change.  But will they do it... or 
> better if someone answers your final question and gives us a solution 
> without changing the language.  Nice write up.  Thanks for all the help!
>
> Kevin
>
Actually, it doesn't need to know anything about the type of any return 
values, and it never has to check anything like that at runtime.  This 
solution doesn't involve any wrappers (i.e. this solution has nothing to 
do with composition/proxies).  The point is that __overload__ actually 
modifies the behavior of the c_foo type to make it quack like Foo.  
Everything that returns c_foo instances continues to return c_foo 
instances.  Everything that takes c_foo instances as arguments continues 
to use c_foo arguments.  However all instances of c_foo magically 
acquire the attributes of Foo.  Note also that even when you call the 
Foo constructor you get a c_foo instance that gets initialized with 
Foo.__init__.  No more dualism.

In your example, the c_foo.GetAchild() would resolve 'GetAchild' by 
first searching class Foo, (where it doesn't find it), then it checks 
type c_foo and finds it.  c_foo.GetAchild() returns a c_foo instance.

Now I'm thinking that maybe this could be done without changing Python.  
It would involve some tricky hacking with struct _typeobject  in the 
Python/C API, but it seems like it should be possible to come up with a 
general solution.  Even so, I think it may be worth a PEP anyway because 
it would make wrapping C libraries in general significantly easier and 
faster.

- Ken
> Ken Seehart wrote:
>> You inspired me to write this on the main Python list.
>>
>>> Anyone who has wrapped C or C++ libraries has encountered the proxy 
>>> dilemma. 
>>>
>>> A long time ago, I naively thought that I could start by deriving my 
>>> high level python class from the c-python type, but this leads to 
>>> many difficult problems because several of the underlying methods 
>>> return the low level objects.  After reading up on the subject, I 
>>> learned that the "correct" solution is to use composition rather 
>>> than inheritance.  It makes sense, but it is nevertheless rather 
>>> annoying.
>>>
>>> An excellent example of this is the wxPython library, which uses 
>>> composition (proxies) and even solves the OOR (original object 
>>> return) problem that is associated with this kind of proxy oriented 
>>> solution.
>>>
>>> Conclusion: There is no really good solution to this kind of thing 
>>> that doesn't get messy.  Wrapping C or C++ in python becomes 
>>> difficult whenever you have methods that return (or take as 
>>> arguments) instances of the objects that you are trying to wrap in 
>>> high level python.  Any solution seems to add more overhead than is 
>>> desirable (in terms of both programmer time and run time).
>>>
>>> This problem comes up over and over again, so perhaps it is even 
>>> worth a PEP if a change to the python language would facilitate a 
>>> more convenient solution to this nagging problem.
>>>
>>> First, mentally set aside the idea of using composition.  I 
>>> understand the set of problems that it solves, but it also creates a 
>>> new set of problems (such as function call overhead on every method 
>>> call).  I also understand why composition is better than 
>>> inheritance.  But in order to contemplate this proposal, it is 
>>> necessary to temporarily set aside the composition idea.  This 
>>> proposal involves taking another look at something slightly more 
>>> akin to the inheritance approach that we all gave up on before.
>>>
>>> Okay, so here is a somewhat radical proposal:
>>>
>>> Add a writable  __overload__ attribute to low level python type.  
>>> This would be assigned a python 'type' instance (or None to have no 
>>> effect).  The effect is to place __overload__ at the /beginning /of 
>>> the __mro__ of the low level type, making it possible to directly 
>>> alter the behavior of the base python type without using 
>>> inheritance.  This means that instances of the base type acquire the 
>>> attributes of our high level python class.  It is important that the 
>>> __overload__ type is checked /before /the actual type.
>>>
>>> Yeah, it sounds a bit scary at first.  A bit too loose maybe.  So 
>>> the type definition should have to explicitly enable this feature to 
>>> prevent people from doing bad things.  But dwelling too much on the 
>>> scariness seems somewhat non-pythonic.  It is more important that we 
>>> can do really good things than that we prevent ourselves from going 
>>> out of our way to do bad things (as long as it is not too /easy /to 
>>> do bad things).
>>>
>>> So here are some of the benefits:
>>>
>>> 1. Eliminates the duality between proxy objects and low level objects.
>>>
>>> 2. Increased speed on methods whose syntaxes are not being altered 
>>> (because no wrapper is needed).
>>>
>>> 3. Much less work than writing wrappers for every method (even if 
>>> such a task is partially automated).
>>>
>>> Usage example:
>>>
>>> from foolib import c_foo
>>>
>>> class Foo(c_foo):
>>>     """Overload of c_foo"""
>>>
>>>     def __new__(typ, *args, **kwargs):
>>>         return c_foo(*args, **kwargs)
>>>
>>>     def __init__(self, parrot_state):
>>>         c_foo.__init__(self)
>>>         self.parrot_state = parrot_state
>>>
>>>     def myfunc(self):
>>>         return 5 * self.juju(self.parrot_state) # juju method is 
>>> defined in foolib
>>>
>>> # This makes all c_foo instances into Foo instances:  Poof!
>>> c_foo.c_footype.__overload__ = Foo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> x = Foo('not dead yet') # actually creates a c_foo instance that 
>>> looks like a Foo instance
>>>
>>> # c_foo.Add is defined in foolib and takes c_foo instances
>>> x.Add(Foo('strange'))
>>> x.Add(Foo('missing'))
>>>
>>> # c_foo.GetChildren is defined in foolib and returns c_foo instances
>>> for y in x.GetChildren():
>>>     print y.myfunc() # Wow, I am magically accessing Foo.myfunc
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah I know, that's an infinitely recursive inheritance; but that's 
>>> okay, we just implement the __overload__ feature such that the MRO 
>>> thingy will do the right thing for us.  The semantics will be that 
>>> Foo is derived from c_foo, and all instances of c_foo behave as if 
>>> the are instances of Foo.
>>>
>>> I used the term "radical" earlier, to describe this idea.  What I 
>>> meant was that it seems to violate some basic Object Oriented 
>>> principles.  However, when evaluating solutions I try not to apply 
>>> any principles too dogmatically.  Theory is only relevant when it 
>>> has /practical /consequences.  So I recommend not quoting theory 
>>> without also defending the relevance of the theory to the case in 
>>> point.  IMO, anything that eliminates thousands of lines of 
>>> boilerplate code is worth bending theory a little.
>>>
>>> Is it possible to get the same syntactic/semantic results without 
>>> changing python?
>>>
>>> - Ken

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From ken at seehart.com  Sat Jun 23 14:25:52 2007
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 05:25:52 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Possible talk: A Nondualist Alternative to Proxy
	Wrapper Theory
Message-ID: <467D1150.8010109@seehart.com>

If you read my previous email that was accidentally sent here instead of 
python.org, you have some idea of what this is about.

What is new is that I did some experimenting and came up with some 
interesting results.  In fact I have implemented a proof-of-concept of 
what I describe below.

So let me know if you would like me to give a talk on this subject.


      Overview:

Anyone who has wrapped C or C++ libraries that contain methods which use 
and/or return instances of the types that are being wrapped has 
encountered what I call the /inheritance/proxy wrapper dilemma/.

The general scenario is that we have a python extension library which we 
wish to enhance by writing a python layer to add functionality and 
improve syntax.  A good example is the wxPython library.  The most 
obvious thing to do is to derive our classes from the extension types.  
This works fine until we have to deal with methods in the extension 
library that create and return instances of the low level types.  We 
want to only expose instances of our classes, not the low level objects.

At this point we do a little research and find out that we should be 
using composition rather than inheritance.  So we make a proxy system 
and inevitably wind up with a rather unwieldy pile of meaningless 
wrappers on all of our methods.  This solution is generally considered 
better than inheritance, but it creates a new set of problems.  Two 
obvious problems associated with the proxy solution are the extra 
function call overhead of the wrappers, and the necessity of generating 
piles of boilerplate code.  Also there is a tendency for the dualism 
between the proxy object and the raw object to be an ongoing annoyance.  
Once most of the bugs are weeded out, the proxy system works adequately, 
but can't really be considered fun.


      A Nondualist Alternative to Proxy Wrapper Theory:

In this talk, I will demonstrate a technique for implementing wrappers 
without proxies that nevertheless have all the desirable features that 
we expect from composition based solutions, and all the simplicity we 
had hoped for with simple inheritance.  We eliminate dualism along with 
the unnecessary run-time overhead of wrappers.  The challenge is to keep 
an open mind when faced with scary seeming violations of well 
established object oriented theory, and focus on the practical 
considerations.

Time: 45 minutes to 1 hour.  Probably not for beginner night :-)  Let me 
know if you are interested.

- Ken Seehart

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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Jun 23 15:05:52 2007
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 06:05:52 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Possible talk: A Nondualist Alternative to Proxy
	Wrapper Theory
In-Reply-To: <467D1150.8010109@seehart.com>
References: <467D1150.8010109@seehart.com>
Message-ID: <20070623130551.GA20352@panix.com>

On Sat, Jun 23, 2007, Ken Seehart wrote:
>
> In this talk, I will demonstrate a technique for implementing wrappers 
> without proxies that nevertheless have all the desirable features that 
> we expect from composition based solutions, and all the simplicity we 
> had hoped for with simple inheritance.  We eliminate dualism along with 
> the unnecessary run-time overhead of wrappers.  The challenge is to keep 
> an open mind when faced with scary seeming violations of well 
> established object oriented theory, and focus on the practical 
> considerations.
> 
> Time: 45 minutes to 1 hour.  Probably not for beginner night :-)  Let me 
> know if you are interested.

Given my attendance record, I don't really get a vote, but this sounds
like an excellent idea.  I think it would be double-useful if you can
specify some use cases for this approach in plain Python (e.g. if it
works with remote-object proxies).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"as long as we like the same operating system, things are cool." --piranha

From n8pease at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 23 17:19:48 2007
From: n8pease at yahoo.com (Nate Pease)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 08:19:48 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Possible talk: A Nondualist Alternative to Proxy
	Wrapper Theory
In-Reply-To: <467D1150.8010109@seehart.com>
References: <467D1150.8010109@seehart.com>
Message-ID: <66DA539B-0268-4FA3-BC32-0A9E373DF749@yahoo.com>

+1

n

On Jun 23, 2007, at 5:25 AM, Ken Seehart wrote:
<snip>
>
> Time: 45 minutes to 1 hour.  Probably not for beginner night :-)   
> Let me know if you are interested.
>
> - Ken Seehart
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From warren at muse.com  Sat Jun 23 18:44:32 2007
From: warren at muse.com (Warren Stringer)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 09:44:32 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Possible talk: A Nondualist Alternative to
	ProxyWrapper Theory
In-Reply-To: <467D1150.8010109@seehart.com>
References: <467D1150.8010109@seehart.com>
Message-ID: <007f01c7b5b5$c69ca090$240110ac@Muse>

+1!

Highly relevant and timely. 

> Time: 45 minutes to 1 hour.? Probably not for beginner night :-)? Let me
know if you are interested.

- Ken Seehart


From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Sat Jun 23 19:50:51 2007
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 10:50:51 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Possible talk: A Nondualist Alternative to
	ProxyWrapper Theory
In-Reply-To: <007f01c7b5b5$c69ca090$240110ac@Muse>
References: <467D1150.8010109@seehart.com>
	<007f01c7b5b5$c69ca090$240110ac@Muse>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0706231050m3aa5a3e5hbb57005cdfd94544@mail.gmail.com>

get a meeting synopsis posted (jim?).. and I'll put that on the site..
before I get busy at the Plone sprint this week...

Donna


On 6/23/07, Warren Stringer <warren at muse.com> wrote:
> +1!
>
> Highly relevant and timely.
>
> > Time: 45 minutes to 1 hour. Probably not for beginner night :-) Let me
> know if you are interested.
>
> - Ken Seehart
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From jim at well.com  Sat Jun 23 21:01:47 2007
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 12:01:47 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Possible talk: A Nondualist Alternative to
	ProxyWrapper Theory
In-Reply-To: <baf0d46b0706231050m3aa5a3e5hbb57005cdfd94544@mail.gmail.com>
References: <467D1150.8010109@seehart.com>
	<007f01c7b5b5$c69ca090$240110ac@Muse>
	<baf0d46b0706231050m3aa5a3e5hbb57005cdfd94544@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c60180603201534076ea316ec0be8849@well.com>


    remember this July meeting is the second
part of Alex' Python for Programmers talk.
Next available slot is August.

On Jun 23, 2007, at 10:50 AM, Donna Snow wrote:

> get a meeting synopsis posted (jim?).. and I'll put that on the site..
> before I get busy at the Plone sprint this week...
>
> Donna
>
>
> On 6/23/07, Warren Stringer <warren at muse.com> wrote:
>> +1!
>>
>> Highly relevant and timely.
>>
>>> Time: 45 minutes to 1 hour. Probably not for beginner night :-) Let 
>>> me
>> know if you are interested.
>>
>> - Ken Seehart
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


From ken at seehart.com  Sun Jun 24 01:40:53 2007
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:40:53 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Possible talk: A Nondualist Alternative
 to	ProxyWrapper Theory
In-Reply-To: <c60180603201534076ea316ec0be8849@well.com>
References: <467D1150.8010109@seehart.com>	<007f01c7b5b5$c69ca090$240110ac@Muse>	<baf0d46b0706231050m3aa5a3e5hbb57005cdfd94544@mail.gmail.com>
	<c60180603201534076ea316ec0be8849@well.com>
Message-ID: <467DAF85.1030808@seehart.com>

Yeah, I was thinking August too.  I will be in Japan in September.

Ken

jim stockford wrote:
>     remember this July meeting is the second
> part of Alex' Python for Programmers talk.
> Next available slot is August.
>
> On Jun 23, 2007, at 10:50 AM, Donna Snow wrote:
>
>   
>> get a meeting synopsis posted (jim?).. and I'll put that on the site..
>> before I get busy at the Plone sprint this week...
>>
>> Donna
>>
>>
>> On 6/23/07, Warren Stringer <warren at muse.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> +1!
>>>
>>> Highly relevant and timely.
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Time: 45 minutes to 1 hour. Probably not for beginner night :-) Let 
>>>> me
>>>>         
>>> know if you are interested.
>>>
>>> - Ken Seehart
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Baypiggies mailing list
>>> Baypiggies at python.org
>>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>>
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>
>
>   

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From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Sun Jun 24 01:53:03 2007
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:53:03 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] upcoming meetings.. Plone training
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0706231653w22e4f2d7x44105470477ff609@mail.gmail.com>

If someone could put together the July and August meeting synopsis.. I
can put them both up..
(that way people can plan two months in advance)..

I'd like to schedule our online Plone training for July 10th...
(that'll be after my week at Google and the holiday week). I think if
even a couple people can make it.. that'll give us some of the update
help we need (once we move over to Plone site) and they can show
others how to use the system.

I'm going to try and make July's meeting..

Donna

From jim at well.com  Mon Jun 25 01:20:47 2007
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:20:47 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] upcoming meetings.. Plone training
In-Reply-To: <baf0d46b0706231653w22e4f2d7x44105470477ff609@mail.gmail.com>
References: <baf0d46b0706231653w22e4f2d7x44105470477ff609@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <636781961a85b19e09a1c9833ddd647b@well.com>


    i'll put together meeting synopses in a few days.

    Seems to me that bayPIGgies should review the
meeting speaker possibilities at this point--I'll put
out a list for review in less than the few days
referred to above.



On Jun 23, 2007, at 4:53 PM, Donna Snow wrote:

> If someone could put together the July and August meeting synopsis.. I
> can put them both up..
> (that way people can plan two months in advance)..
>
> I'd like to schedule our online Plone training for July 10th...
> (that'll be after my week at Google and the holiday week). I think if
> even a couple people can make it.. that'll give us some of the update
> help we need (once we move over to Plone site) and they can show
> others how to use the system.
>
> I'm going to try and make July's meeting..
>
> Donna
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


From max at theslimmers.net  Mon Jun 25 17:59:45 2007
From: max at theslimmers.net (Max Slimmer)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 08:59:45 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Possible talk: A Nondualist Alternative to
	ProxyWrapper Theory
In-Reply-To: <467D1150.8010109@seehart.com>
Message-ID: <200706251559.l5PFxtDt019109@a.mail.sonic.net>

Sounds quite interesting, You have my vote.
max


  _____  

From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org [mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org]
On Behalf Of Ken Seehart
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 5:26 AM
To: Python
Subject: [Baypiggies] Possible talk: A Nondualist Alternative to
ProxyWrapper Theory


If you read my previous email that was accidentally sent here instead of
python.org, you have some idea of what this is about.

What is new is that I did some experimenting and came up with some
interesting results.  In fact I have implemented a proof-of-concept of what
I describe below.

So let me know if you would like me to give a talk on this subject.


Overview:

Anyone who has wrapped C or C++ libraries that contain methods which use
and/or return instances of the types that are being wrapped has encountered
what I call the inheritance/proxy wrapper dilemma.

The general scenario is that we have a python extension library which we
wish to enhance by writing a python layer to add functionality and improve
syntax.  A good example is the wxPython library.  The most obvious thing to
do is to derive our classes from the extension types.  This works fine until
we have to deal with methods in the extension library that create and return
instances of the low level types.  We want to only expose instances of our
classes, not the low level objects.

At this point we do a little research and find out that we should be using
composition rather than inheritance.  So we make a proxy system and
inevitably wind up with a rather unwieldy pile of meaningless wrappers on
all of our methods.  This solution is generally considered better than
inheritance, but it creates a new set of problems.  Two obvious problems
associated with the proxy solution are the extra function call overhead of
the wrappers, and the necessity of generating piles of boilerplate code.
Also there is a tendency for the dualism between the proxy object and the
raw object to be an ongoing annoyance.  Once most of the bugs are weeded
out, the proxy system works adequately, but can't really be considered fun.



A Nondualist Alternative to Proxy Wrapper Theory:

In this talk, I will demonstrate a technique for implementing wrappers
without proxies that nevertheless have all the desirable features that we
expect from composition based solutions, and all the simplicity we had hoped
for with simple inheritance.  We eliminate dualism along with the
unnecessary run-time overhead of wrappers.  The challenge is to keep an open
mind when faced with scary seeming violations of well established object
oriented theory, and focus on the practical considerations.

Time: 45 minutes to 1 hour.  Probably not for beginner night :-)  Let me
know if you are interested.

- Ken Seehart



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From Chris.Clark at ingres.com  Mon Jun 25 18:33:31 2007
From: Chris.Clark at ingres.com (Chris Clark)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:33:31 +0100
Subject: [Baypiggies] Possible talk: A Nondualist Alternative to Proxy
 Wrapper Theory
In-Reply-To: <467D1150.8010109@seehart.com>
References: <467D1150.8010109@seehart.com>
Message-ID: <467FEE5B.3060604@ingres.com>

+1

Ken Seehart wrote:
> If you read my previous email that was accidentally sent here instead 
> of python.org, you have some idea of what this is about.
>
> What is new is that I did some experimenting and came up with some 
> interesting results.  In fact I have implemented a proof-of-concept of 
> what I describe below.
>
> So let me know if you would like me to give a talk on this subject.
>
>
>       Overview:
>
> Anyone who has wrapped C or C++ libraries that contain methods which 
> use and/or return instances of the types that are being wrapped has 
> encountered what I call the /inheritance/proxy wrapper dilemma/.
>
> The general scenario is that we have a python extension library which 
> we wish to enhance by writing a python layer to add functionality and 
> improve syntax.  A good example is the wxPython library.  The most 
> obvious thing to do is to derive our classes from the extension 
> types.  This works fine until we have to deal with methods in the 
> extension library that create and return instances of the low level 
> types.  We want to only expose instances of our classes, not the low 
> level objects.
>
> At this point we do a little research and find out that we should be 
> using composition rather than inheritance.  So we make a proxy system 
> and inevitably wind up with a rather unwieldy pile of meaningless 
> wrappers on all of our methods.  This solution is generally considered 
> better than inheritance, but it creates a new set of problems.  Two 
> obvious problems associated with the proxy solution are the extra 
> function call overhead of the wrappers, and the necessity of 
> generating piles of boilerplate code.  Also there is a tendency for 
> the dualism between the proxy object and the raw object to be an 
> ongoing annoyance.  Once most of the bugs are weeded out, the proxy 
> system works adequately, but can't really be considered fun.
>
>
>       A Nondualist Alternative to Proxy Wrapper Theory:
>
> In this talk, I will demonstrate a technique for implementing wrappers 
> without proxies that nevertheless have all the desirable features that 
> we expect from composition based solutions, and all the simplicity we 
> had hoped for with simple inheritance.  We eliminate dualism along 
> with the unnecessary run-time overhead of wrappers.  The challenge is 
> to keep an open mind when faced with scary seeming violations of well 
> established object oriented theory, and focus on the practical 
> considerations.
>
> Time: 45 minutes to 1 hour.  Probably not for beginner night :-)  Let 
> me know if you are interested.
>
> - Ken Seehart
>


From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Tue Jun 26 05:31:03 2007
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 20:31:03 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Volunteer wanted: Write a review Bash Cookbook
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0706252031ne68455eua20a09cc29151a93@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

If anyone would like to read & review The new Bash Cookbook from O'Reilly,
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596526788/index.html

please email me off-list.

You can keep the book for doing the review.

Thanks!


Tony

From whitaker at google.com  Tue Jun 26 08:27:12 2007
From: whitaker at google.com (Russell Whitaker)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 23:27:12 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Volunteer wanted: Write a review Bash Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0706252031ne68455eua20a09cc29151a93@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8249c4ac0706252031ne68455eua20a09cc29151a93@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <997a56990706252327l246131cfj33cf14e561d4a88d@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/25/07, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> If anyone would like to read & review The new Bash Cookbook from O'Reilly,
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596526788/index.html
>

Scratching my head... is there a Python angle here?

-- 
Russell Whitaker
Google Inc., Mt View, CA

From jjinux at gmail.com  Tue Jun 26 09:35:01 2007
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 00:35:01 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Volunteer wanted: Write a review Bash Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <997a56990706252327l246131cfj33cf14e561d4a88d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8249c4ac0706252031ne68455eua20a09cc29151a93@mail.gmail.com>
	<997a56990706252327l246131cfj33cf14e561d4a88d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90706260035h3e5c7dfdu27d09a68607126d5@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/25/07, Russell Whitaker <whitaker at google.com> wrote:
> On 6/25/07, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > If anyone would like to read & review The new Bash Cookbook from O'Reilly,
> > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596526788/index.html
> >
>
> Scratching my head... is there a Python angle here?

Hey Russell,

As a user group, we have a special deal set up with O'Reilly.  Our
members provide book reviews, and then they get to keep the books.
Tony manages this.  It's nice because every once in a while, there's a
book that you're interested in.  Feel free to ignore messages like
this until one of the books peeks your interest.

Best Regards,
-jj

-- 
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From whitaker at google.com  Tue Jun 26 09:44:09 2007
From: whitaker at google.com (Russell Whitaker)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 00:44:09 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Volunteer wanted: Write a review Bash Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90706260035h3e5c7dfdu27d09a68607126d5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8249c4ac0706252031ne68455eua20a09cc29151a93@mail.gmail.com>
	<997a56990706252327l246131cfj33cf14e561d4a88d@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90706260035h3e5c7dfdu27d09a68607126d5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <997a56990706260044u2ce80477s5d55a50cde1f1bb2@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/26/07, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/25/07, Russell Whitaker <whitaker at google.com> wrote:
> > On 6/25/07, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > If anyone would like to read & review The new Bash Cookbook from O'Reilly,
> > > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596526788/index.html
> > >
> >
> > Scratching my head... is there a Python angle here?
>
> Hey Russell,
>
> As a user group, we have a special deal set up with O'Reilly.  Our
> members provide book reviews, and then they get to keep the books.
> Tony manages this.  It's nice because every once in a while, there's a
> book that you're interested in.  Feel free to ignore messages like
> this until one of the books peeks your interest.
>

Ah!  OK, I get it!  Sounds cool to me, I was just confused (but then, that's
not uncommon with me).

Any books on Python and Ruby might pique my interest... hint, hint...

-- 
Russell Whitaker
Google Inc., Mt View, CA

From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Tue Jun 26 16:20:29 2007
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 07:20:29 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Volunteer wanted: Write a review Bash Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <997a56990706252327l246131cfj33cf14e561d4a88d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8249c4ac0706252031ne68455eua20a09cc29151a93@mail.gmail.com>
	<997a56990706252327l246131cfj33cf14e561d4a88d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0706260720j495ebf50n64c02d762409e08@mail.gmail.com>

There doesn't need to be a Python angle.
We are part of a partnership with several major book publishers.
They give us books to review, we publish the reviews on our website,
we get to keep the books.


On 6/25/07, Russell Whitaker <whitaker at google.com> wrote:
> On 6/25/07, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > If anyone would like to read & review The new Bash Cookbook from O'Reilly,
> > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596526788/index.html
> >
>
> Scratching my head... is there a Python angle here?
>
> --
> Russell Whitaker
> Google Inc., Mt View, CA
>

From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Tue Jun 26 16:34:40 2007
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 07:34:40 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Volunteer wanted: Write a review Bash Cookbook
In-Reply-To: <997a56990706260044u2ce80477s5d55a50cde1f1bb2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8249c4ac0706252031ne68455eua20a09cc29151a93@mail.gmail.com>
	<997a56990706252327l246131cfj33cf14e561d4a88d@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90706260035h3e5c7dfdu27d09a68607126d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<997a56990706260044u2ce80477s5d55a50cde1f1bb2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0706260734u6e47c388o67eb5baad9812939@mail.gmail.com>

For those not familiar with the Book Review program, here is the link
to the old web page
(which is very much out of date, but will have to suffice until the
new Plone site is fully online)

http://www.baypiggies.net/book_reviews/index.html

> Any books on Python and Ruby might pique my interest... hint, hint...
Pick a book from the list of publishers, and mail me off list which
book you want to review.
The list on the old site does not contain reviews done recently, so I
will have to verify the book you pick has not already been reviewed.

Also. if you have any books you've read recently that you really like
and want to do a review on, you are always welcome to do that.too.
Publishers don't shy aways from too many reviews.

From rdm at cfcl.com  Wed Jun 27 17:35:45 2007
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 08:35:45 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] BASS Meeting (SF), Wed. June 27 (tonight!)
Message-ID: <p0623090bc2a833d53503@[192.168.1.205]>

The Beer and Scripting SIG rides again!  If you'd like to
eat good Italian food, chat with other local scripters,
and possibly take a look at laptop-demoed scripting hacks,
this is the place to do it!

For your convenience, here are the critical details:

  Date:   Wednesday, June 27, 2007 (4th. Wed.)
  Time:   8:00 pm
  Place:  Pasquales Pizzeria
          701 Irving St. (At 8th. Ave.)
          San Francisco, California, USA
          415/661-2140

See the BASS web page for more information:

  http://cfcl.com/rdm/bass/

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development