From keith at kdart.com  Fri Sep  1 01:02:56 2006
From: keith at kdart.com (Keith Dart)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 16:02:56 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] clustering
In-Reply-To: <44F6156F.9090309@lbl.gov>
References: <c41f67b90608301020mc7d1489j6f9dd3b26c6a0168@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90608301442n43def9cdg1807f4645bd04ca2@mail.gmail.com>
	<44F6156F.9090309@lbl.gov>
Message-ID: <20060831160256.186ce7a8@psyche.corp.google.com>

David E. Konerding wrote the following on 2006-08-30 at 15:47 PDT:
===
> Your time is better spent writing a lightweight parallelism interface 
> using the existing lightweight networking code in
> Python, or in an add-on package like Pyro or Twisted.

===

I have used Pyro in the past and it's quite nice. I have some modules
for remote controlling machines via Pyro.  Use the following link:

http://www.dartworks.biz/pynms/browser/pynms/trunk/lib/remote


-- 

-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================

From keith at kdart.com  Fri Sep  1 01:40:58 2006
From: keith at kdart.com (Keith Dart)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 16:40:58 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] clustering
References: <c41f67b90608301020mc7d1489j6f9dd3b26c6a0168@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90608301442n43def9cdg1807f4645bd04ca2@mail.gmail.com>
	<44F6156F.9090309@lbl.gov>
Message-ID: <20060831164058.5ad684ea@psyche.corp.google.com>

David E. Konerding wrote the following on 2006-08-30 at 15:47 PDT:
===
> Your time is better spent writing a lightweight parallelism interface 
> using the existing lightweight networking code in
> Python, or in an add-on package like Pyro or Twisted.

===

I have used Pyro in the past and it's quite nice. I have some modules
for remote controlling machines via Pyro.  Use the following link:

http://www.dartworks.biz/pynms/browser/pynms/trunk/lib/remote


-- 

-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================

From brianomorchoe at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Sep  1 22:51:53 2006
From: brianomorchoe at yahoo.co.uk (Brain Murphy)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 21:51:53 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] code down sizing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.63.1157104818.17649.baypiggies@python.org>
Message-ID: <20060901205153.27158.qmail@web25713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

I am having problems down sizing my code. My parents asked me to make a program were they can go into and find the recipe that they are looking for, and it will tell them the issue it is in.
   
  My code is huge and I have not been able to make it smaller
  <<<
  def print_options():
    print " Cover Recipes"
    print "Options"
    print "'P' Print options"
    print " please chose a-z corresponding with the recipe name you are looking for."
    print "'B' capital B to go back"
  choice = "P"
while choice !="B":
    if choice == "a":
        import a
    elif choice == "b":
        print "No recipes were found that start with B"
    elif choice == "c":
        import c
  ........................
        elif choice == "z":
         print "No recipes were found that start with Z"
    elif choice != "B":
        print_options()
    choice = raw_input("Enter choice: ")>>>
   
  as you can see it is huge for its size, I know it can be smaller like
  choice  = raw_input("Enter letter:%") for % in %'s list
  list = az-aZ-AZ 
  if choice in list = % import %
   
  or something along those lines but I can not figure it out. Can any one help me with this?
  Brian
  

 

 		
---------------------------------
 The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.
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From shaleh at speakeasy.net  Fri Sep  1 23:39:43 2006
From: shaleh at speakeasy.net (Sean Perry)
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:39:43 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] code down sizing
In-Reply-To: <20060901205153.27158.qmail@web25713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <20060901205153.27158.qmail@web25713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <44F8A89F.1050803@speakeasy.net>

Brain Murphy wrote:
>   or something along those lines but I can not figure it out. Can any one help me with this?

What you want is a lookup device. Consider:

def do_a():
     import a
     # other code

def do_b():
     import b
     # other code

def do_c():
     import c
     # other code

choices = {'a': do_a,
            'b': do_b,
            'c': do_c,}
choice = raw_input("Enter choice: ")
action = choices[choice]
action()

(Rapidly entered but close to accurate ...)

From andywiggin at gmail.com  Sat Sep  2 00:28:54 2006
From: andywiggin at gmail.com (Andy Wiggin)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:28:54 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] code down sizing
In-Reply-To: <44F8A89F.1050803@speakeasy.net>
References: <20060901205153.27158.qmail@web25713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<44F8A89F.1050803@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <74e7428a0609011528r34c59182m26c20bfe271beb26@mail.gmail.com>

The standard "cmd" module provides a class which does the suggested
lookup/dispatch, but using reflection. You just define methods like
do_a(), then "a" automatically becomes a recognized command.  That
might be slightly simpler, and you get command recall, etc. -Andy

From marilyn at deliberate.com  Sat Sep  2 01:01:12 2006
From: marilyn at deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis)
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 16:01:12 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] code down sizing
Message-ID: <20060901230115.B6F5F1E400D@bag.python.org>


----- On Friday, September 1, 2006 shaleh at speakeasy.net wrote:

> Brain Murphy wrote:
>>   or something along those lines but I can not figure it out. Can any one
> help me with this?
> 
> What you want is a lookup device. Consider:
> 
> def do_a():
> import a
> # other code
> 
> def do_b():
> import b
> # other code
> 
> def do_c():
> import c
> # other code
> 
> choices = {'a': do_a,
> 'b': do_b,
> 'c': do_c,}
> choice = raw_input("Enter choice: ")
> action = choices[choice]
> action()
> 
> (Rapidly entered but close to accurate ...)

Sean's idea about a lookup device is a good one to learn.  However, for your special case, where the module names exactly match the chosen letters, you might like this trick:

try:
    exec("import " + choice.lower())
except ImportError:
    print "No recipes were found that start with " + choice

You might find, in the long run, that storing your recipies as python code is not the most flexible possibility.  You might prefer to keep them in a file that you read and write.  That will allow you to add new recipes more easily.  And it will leave you in position to write code so that your parents can type "enchilada cassarole" when they really want the "green chili enchilada cassarole"

Good luck!

Marilyn Davis



From jjinux at gmail.com  Sat Sep  2 02:43:40 2006
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 17:43:40 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd:  code down sizing
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90609011426l5bcca611wb2da5dea848ae1f5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.63.1157104818.17649.baypiggies@python.org>
	<20060901205153.27158.qmail@web25713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<c41f67b90609011426l5bcca611wb2da5dea848ae1f5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90609011743s2d0fdd6bt160a3253d1c1b539@mail.gmail.com>

I couldn't figure out why everyone kept saying the same things I did
until I realized I forgot to CC the list:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com>
Date: Sep 1, 2006 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] code down sizing
To: Brain Murphy <brianomorchoe at yahoo.co.uk>


Here are some ideas:

* Consolidate multiple prints into a single print:

print """\
hi
there"""

* Use dynamic imports (i.e. __import__).

* Use the cmd module.

-jj

On 9/1/06, Brain Murphy <brianomorchoe at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I am having problems down sizing my code. My parents asked me to make a
> program were they can go into and find the recipe that they are looking for,
> and it will tell them the issue it is in.
>
> My code is huge and I have not been able to make it smaller
> <<<
> def print_options():
>     print " Cover Recipes"
>     print "Options"
>     print "'P' Print options"
>     print " please chose a-z corresponding with the recipe name you are
> looking for."
>     print "'B' capital B to go back"
> choice = "P"
> while choice !="B":
>     if choice == "a":
>         import a
>     elif choice == "b":
>         print "No recipes were found that start with B"
>     elif choice == "c":
>         import c
> ........................
>         elif choice == "z":
>          print "No recipes were found that start with Z"
>     elif choice != "B":
>         print_options()
>     choice = raw_input("Enter choice: ")>>>
>
> as you can see it is huge for its size, I know it can be smaller like
> choice  = raw_input("Enter letter:%") for % in %'s list
> list = az-aZ-AZ
> if choice in list = % import %
>
> or something along those lines but I can not figure it out. Can any one help
> me with this?
> Brian
>
>
>
>
>
>  ________________________________
>  The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from
> your Internet provider.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>
>

From keith at kdart.com  Sat Sep  2 18:28:04 2006
From: keith at kdart.com (Keith Dart)
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 09:28:04 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] code down sizing
In-Reply-To: <20060901230115.B6F5F1E400D@bag.python.org>
References: <20060901230115.B6F5F1E400D@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <20060902092804.254d2a11@localhost>

Marilyn Davis wrote the following on 2006-09-01 at 16:01 PDT:
===
> You might find, in the long run, that storing your recipies as python
> code is not the most flexible possibility.  You might prefer to keep
> them in a file that you read and write. 
===

Naw, what he really needs is a relational database with web UI using
Django. ;-)

As an exercise he could write an ISAM in Python. I did those in BASIC
as a kid, but writing one in Python should be easier.

Another alternative is to use the "shelve" module to store dictionaries.


-- 

-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================

From marilyn at deliberate.com  Sun Sep  3 07:38:33 2006
From: marilyn at deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis)
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 22:38:33 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] The Python Sprint
Message-ID: <20060903053836.5B20A1E4003@bag.python.org>

Hi Python Enthusiasts,

I was able to partcipate in one day of the python sprint last week and I took a few pictures:

http://www.maildance.com/python/sprint

It was a dark room so the faces are red.  We didn't really have rashes or sunburns or devilish makeup.

The split screen in the front of the room showed the NYC people working on the left and the MtV people on the right.  Unfortunately, picture-taking occured to me when the NYC people were out of the room.

Pretty exciting!

Marilyn Davis





From keith at kdart.com  Mon Sep  4 09:47:33 2006
From: keith at kdart.com (Keith Dart)
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 00:47:33 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Moved the pyNMS project repository
Message-ID: <20060904004733.0c1bb83b@psyche.corp.google.com>

Greetings all,

I have moved the PyNMS project to the new Google code hosting
service. :-)

The new home page is here:

http://keith.dart.googlepages.com/pynmshome

This home page is also served from the new Google pages server. I also
created a Google discussion group for it. The home page has the links.
Google does it all!

Alas, still not much documentation there. But at least it has a stable
home now.

BTW, Google code hosting uses Subversion, so you will need the
subversion client, version 1.3, to get a working copy. 




-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================

From tungwaiyip at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  5 06:46:53 2006
From: tungwaiyip at yahoo.com (Tung Wai Yip)
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 21:46:53 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Big discount - The Future of Web Apps summit
In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580608110045x5711a274hc8c2b014d861d3ed@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78b3a9580608110045x5711a274hc8c2b014d861d3ed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.tfd18ftvoiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>

I got a discount for the upcoming the Future of Web Apps summit. Many big  
names from the web 2.0 crowd will speak in this 2 day event from Sep  
13-14, 2006. I have 2 seats for only $50 each. Email me if you are  
interested.

Cheers,

Wai Yip



------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.carsonworkshops.com/summit/

Discover how the web's most successful sites and applications were built,  
plus get expert practical advice from the best in the business on creating  
your own web app. Whether you're a developer, business owner or  
entrepreneur, join us for this exclusive two-day audience with the biggest  
names in web development.

Sep 13-14, 2006
10am ? 6pm
Palace of Fine Arts Theatre
Lyon Street,
San Francisco CA 94123


From cvanarsdall at mvista.com  Tue Sep  5 19:22:30 2006
From: cvanarsdall at mvista.com (Carl J. Van Arsdall)
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 10:22:30 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] clustering
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90608301442n43def9cdg1807f4645bd04ca2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90608301020mc7d1489j6f9dd3b26c6a0168@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90608301442n43def9cdg1807f4645bd04ca2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44FDB256.3000605@mvista.com>

Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> Hey Guys,
>
> I need to do some data processing, and I'd like to use a cluster so
> that I don't have to grow old waiting for my computer to finish.  I'm
> thinking about using the servers I have locally.  I'm completely new
> to clustering.  I understand how to break a problem up into
> paralizable pieces, but I don't understand the admin side of it.  My
> current data set is about 16 gigs, and I need to do things like run
> filters over strings, make sure strings are unique, etc.  I'll be
> using Python wherever possible.
>
> * Do I have to run a particular Linux distro?  Do they all have to be
> the same, or can I just setup a daemon on each machine?
>   
 From what I've seen this can vary.  For example if you are using PVM 
then you should be able to have a heterogeneous cluster without too much 
difficulty.  Although, personally, for ease of adminsitration, shit like 
that, I prefer to keep things (at least on the software side) as similar 
as I can.  The reality of the cluster is what you make of it


> * What does "Beowulf" do for me?
>   

Beowulf isn't so great.  There are a number of "active" clustering 
technologies going on.  I've seen a bit about OpenMosix passed around, 
although I believe it exists as kernel patches that are somewhat dated 
last time I checked (they were for 2.4 kernels).  If you have a lot of 
machines etc, you might even want to google load balancing clusters and 
see what you get.
> * How do I admin all the boxes without having to enter the same command n times?
>   
Check out dsh - dancer's shell.   If you are running a debian distro you 
can just apt-get it, I use it all the time, a really handy tool.


> * I've heard that MPI is good and standard.  Should I use it?  Can I
> use it with Python programs?
>   
As far as parallel programs go, MPI (and sometimes PVM) tend to be the 
best ways to achieve maximum speed although they tend to incur more 
development overhead.  Lots of people also use combinations of MPI and 
OpenMP (or pthreads, whatev, openMP is nice and easy and soon to be 
standard in gcc) when they have clusters of smp machines.  In my 
experience, when you have lots of data to move around it can definitely 
be to your advantage to use MPI as you can control specifically how data 
will be passed around and setup a network to match that.  With 16 gigs 
of data you will really want to look at your network topology and how 
you choose to distribute the data.



> * Is there anything better than NFS that I could use to access the data?
>   
I've seen a number of different ways to do this.  You can google 
distributed shared file systems, I think there are a couple projects out 
there, although I've never used any of them and I'd be very much 
interested in anyone's stories if they had any.


> * What hip, slick, and cool these days?
>   
You might even check out some grid computing stuff, kinda neat imho.  
Also, when you get a cluster up and running with MPI or whatever you 
might want to go as far as to profile your code and find the serious 
bottlenecks in your application.  Check out TAU (Tuning Analysis and 
Utilities), it has python bindings as well as MPI/OpenMP stuff.  Not 
that you will use it, that's just one of those things you can google 
should you be bored at work or interested in that typa stuff, and its a 
good way to justify to your employer why you need to install infiniband 
as your network ;)


> I just need you point me in the right direction and tell me what's
> good and what's a waste of time.
>   
Well, as you know you prob want to avoid python threads, although I've 
set up a fairly primitive distributed system with python threads and 
ssh.  Everything is I/O bound for me, so it works really well, although 
I'm looking into better distributed technologies.  Just more stuff to 
play with as we learn (and i'm reading all the links people have posted 
in response to your questions too, lots of good stuff)!  I'd also be 
interested in the solution you choose, so if you ever want to post a 
follow up thread I'd be happy to read the results of your project!


-carl


-- 

Carl J. Van Arsdall
cvanarsdall at mvista.com
Build and Release
MontaVista Software


From kenobi at gmail.com  Thu Sep  7 01:56:42 2006
From: kenobi at gmail.com (Rick Kwan)
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 16:56:42 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] JOB: Perl->Python
Message-ID: <f0aa69930609061656o54910daeu4f53242e411c35ad@mail.gmail.com>

[Let me say outright that this comes to me from a recruiter rather
than a principal.  But I've worked with the recruiter before and found
the job description intriguing.  So I thought I'd pass it along...
--Rick Kwan]

----
This position can be done off-site (remotely).

Client has a software program written in Perl that needs to be redone
in Python.
The program is a data conversion analysis for ATE data.   Contractor
will also need to write a test suite for unit & integration testing.

Length of Assignment: 6-8 weeks
Start: 9/11 or 9/18

Skills:
Python- must
GUI & OO programming- must
Unix or Linux- must
Perl- nice to have
SQL database programming- nice to have

If interested, send resume to:
Doug Jonson
Oxford International, Sr. Technical Recruiter
work: (800) 260-8844, ext. 3360
doug_jonson at oxfordcorp.com

From DennisR at dair.com  Sat Sep  9 02:01:09 2006
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 17:01:09 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Meeting on Sep. 14 at Google -- Plone
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060908164759.00bde950@localhost>

Announcing
----------
Thursday, September 14, 2006

7:30 PM Technical Program
   Topic: Introducing Plone (Content Management System)
   Speaker: Donna M. Snow
     Donna has been building dynamic websites with Plone since
        2001 and is an active member of the Plone community.
   Planned topics for this program (may be revised slightly):
     Introduction to Plone
     Case Studies
     Installation and setup of a Plone site
     Tour of Plone Interface
       adding new content, wysiwyg editor, publishing feature,
       working with portlets, smart folders, setting up groups
       and user permissions
     Installing new products
     Skinning (theming)
     Workflow & Security
     Search functionality
     Documentation (getting help)
     Q&A session (about 15 minutes)

   Companies that use Plone for content management include NASA,
     Oxfam, eBay, Trolltech, Nokia, Utah State University,
     Creative Commons and Wolford.

8:30 PM Reports
   Leslie Hawthorn (Google)
     OSCON 2006 activities: Google/O'reilly OS awards and
     Google Summer of Code update
   Robert Stephenson (gelc.org & OpenCourse.org):
     Review of Raymond Hettinger's excellent "AI in python"
     talk at OSCON 2006, solving puzzles in python.

8:50 PM Mapping/Random Access
   Mapping Moderator: Dennis Reinhardt (WinAjax):
     Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement open to
     all of topic headings (one speaker at a time).
   Random Access session (everyone breaks up into self-organized
     small-group discussion) follows immediately after Mapping.

This is substantially the same as posted at http://baypiggies.net/.

For directions to Google and avoid the lines to print your badge, visit 
http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings#preview

Regards, Dennis
----------------------------------
| Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com   |
| Reinhardt | http://WinAjax.com |
----------------------------------


From DennisR at dair.com  Sat Sep  9 02:29:16 2006
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 17:29:16 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Meeting on Sep. 14 at Google -- Plone
In-Reply-To: <15678-83913@sneakemail.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060908164759.00bde950@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060908172416.00be4a38@localhost>


>... how to pre-register for the September meeting.  Hope I didn't miss 
>something obvious. Thanks.

I am replying to the entire list (omitting who asked the question) because 
this strikes me as a great question.

The http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings#preview page is a 
wiki.  Near the top of the page underneath the "a" in Baypiggies is a 
weenie little icon.  Click this to edit page.  Also, near the bottom, you 
can click EditText.

In either case, you are taken to the source of the page.  Edit to add your 
name.

Regards, Dennis

----------------------------------
| Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com   |
| Reinhardt | http://WinAjax.com |
----------------------------------


From ken at seehart.com  Sat Sep  9 06:17:06 2006
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 21:17:06 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Is plone fo me?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20060908172416.00be4a38@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060908164759.00bde950@localhost>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20060908172416.00be4a38@localhost>
Message-ID: <45024042.5050405@seehart.com>

I am fairly experienced with Zope.  I have heard people complain that 
Zope is monolithic to the point of being annoying.  My experience is 
that Zope really isn't all that bad.  But from what I've seen so far of 
Plone, by skimming the documentation and attempting to play with it, I 
am starting to get the impression that Plone really is as monolithic as 
I originally thought Zope would be.  I'm hoping to hear otherwise.

What I want to do:

1. Get complete control of the main look and feel.  I have implemented a 
Zope page template exactly as I want it.  The template is a finely tuned 
table with perfectly aligned graphics.  Plone seems to want to let me 
plug in bits and pieces to customize aspect of the look, but I need to 
actually control the arrangement of the entire page.  In fact, I don't 
think the final result will look much like a Plone page at all.

2. Allow users to add content by editing plain text.  The user should be 
able to select whether the page is a calendar event, a main menu page, 
etc, and automatically add a link to the appropriate list.  (this item 
is why I would look at Plone at all).  I will need to implement my own 
page templates with custom scripting to display certain lists.

3. I want to implement my own custom regular expression substitutions on 
the structured text content.

Is Plone too shrink-wrapped for what I need?  Should I just stick with 
Zope and implement my own variation on existing structured text tools?

Here's a link to my prototype: http://www.seehart.com/aikidosantacruz.org

If you take a look at that link, you will notice that it will use a 
rather small portion of the features available in Plone.  What I think 
is annoying about Plone is that it looks like I will spend a bunch of 
time removing unused features from the main page!  The default Plone 
page is really fancy, but I would much prefer to start with an empty 
page, and that add what I need.  Note that the bottom portion of the 
menu will not be visible to non-authenticated users, who will be in the 
majority.  I have no use for things like user customizable skins since 
only a few people will have accounts, and the target audience will be 
anonymous read-only users.

Plone looks like it has more than enough features for me.  I just want 
to start with a clean empty page, not the ridiculously excessive swiss 
army knife of the standard default page.

Thanks,

- Ken



From mech422 at gmail.com  Sat Sep  9 09:08:11 2006
From: mech422 at gmail.com (Steve Hindle)
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 00:08:11 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Is plone fo me?
In-Reply-To: <45024042.5050405@seehart.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060908164759.00bde950@localhost>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20060908172416.00be4a38@localhost>
	<45024042.5050405@seehart.com>
Message-ID: <9a0545880609090008n3decfaf7td46145bd61ce7450@mail.gmail.com>

> that Zope really isn't all that bad.  But from what I've seen so far of
> Plone, by skimming the documentation and attempting to play with it, I
> am starting to get the impression that Plone really is as monolithic as
> I originally thought Zope would be.  I'm hoping to hear otherwise.
>
'Otherwise'
Plone is based on a 'product' (plugins) system.  This includes a lot
of the 'core' functionality.  I believe what you are considering
'monolithic' is probably more accurately labeled 'huge' - as in Plone
exposes a huge amount of API functionality, _should you choose to use
it_.   Granted, there is a LOT of stuff there - but you can do really
incredible stuff with just some of the basic facilities.

> What I want to do:
>
> 1. Get complete control of the main look and feel.  I have implemented a
> Zope page template exactly as I want it.  The template is a finely tuned
> table with perfectly aligned graphics.  Plone seems to want to let me
> plug in bits and pieces to customize aspect of the look, but I need to
> actually control the arrangement of the entire page.  In fact, I don't
> think the final result will look much like a Plone page at all.
>
This can be accomplished by 'customizing' (overriding) the 'main
template'.  This is the default template used to 'wrap' all content in
your site.  Change this one template - and viola  - your done.  Of
course, now you've butchered your plone, hard coded your styling, and
generally made your life more difficult.   If you expend a little more
effort and also change the CSS file, you'll be in better shape.  Then
again, your design might change over time - by spending a little time
learning about Plone features such as portlets - you'll make your life
even easier.  Plone gives you these options - you can start out by
just 'testing the waters' and get something going quickly, and you can
gradually learn more about it for a huge payoff in productivity.

BTW - the link you provided looks like a pretty typical Plone site.
Rather then supply a totally stock template, I would suggest simply
going into the web interface, and turning off 'topnav' - then add the
'nav portlet' to your 'left_column' - this takes about 2 minutes and
is done totally thru the web _without_ editing code.  If your feeling
more ambitious, you could change the CSS file to render 'top nav' (an
unordered list) as your 'left nav'.  I have no idea how hard that
would be as my CSS-Fu ain't all that.  But by styling the list as
'display:block' you should be able to change the horizontal list into
a vertical list.  Again, this can all be done thru the web with _zero_
code changes.

So that takes care of the nav - you would want to edit the 'header'
page template to include your caligraphy graphics.  Again, you could
embed them with img tags, or do some fancy CSS image replacement -
whichever you prefer.

To be honest, Donna and I do these sorts of sites for clients all the
time - two and three column, left nav, 'brochureware' sites a stable
in this biz....  Plone handles them quite easily.  For instance, if
memory serves me - Donna and I did this:
http://www.esginc.com without major surgery to the main template
(scrollers are 'portlets', IIRC)


> 2. Allow users to add content by editing plain text.  The user should be
> able to select whether the page is a calendar event, a main menu page,
> etc, and automatically add a link to the appropriate list.  (this item
> is why I would look at Plone at all).  I will need to implement my own
> page templates with custom scripting to display certain lists.
>
'Stock' Plone comes with the 'kupu' editor - it allows your users to
edit documents in plain text with a WYSIWYG interface, or STX, or
HTML.  Content types such a events, documents, etc. are added via a
drop down list on the 'parent' folder.  Portlets are available for
generating all sorts of dynamic lists.  In addition, Plone supports
'smart folders' - which are sort of like 'persistent queries'.  You
create a smart folder and give it a set of 'search criteria' - it then
automatically updates itself as new content is added.  This makes it
trivial to add dynamic lists different things - like 'show me all
documents older then 2 days written by steve'.  These are a _really_
neat feature.

> 3. I want to implement my own custom regular expression substitutions on
> the structured text content.
*Sigh* I don't think plone can do this one from the browser.  You
might need to hack a python script or two for this.  Still - two outta
three (so far) from right inside your browser with no code hacks is
pretty good :-)


> Plone looks like it has more than enough features for me.  I just want
> to start with a clean empty page, not the ridiculously excessive swiss
> army knife of the standard default page.
>
Thats a little harsh - especially since you've admitted you haven't
looked into it yet.  that 'ridiculously excessive' default template
allows a _lot_ of cool stuff to be implemented in a cross-browser,
standards compliant way.  Not the least of which is its ability to
stay out of your way, while still providing you 'drop-in' component
support with enough CSS hooks to re-arrange the content like a jigsaw
puzzle :-)  Give it a chance - It'll grow on you.

So, In my biased opinion - Plone would probably do quite well for you :-)
It has its fair share of quirks, but if you already know Zope and you
Already know Python - I'd at least play with it a little.  If you have
to do any sort of web work on a regular basis, it can be time very
well spent.

Steve

From webmaven at cox.net  Sat Sep  9 16:33:43 2006
From: webmaven at cox.net (Michael Bernstein)
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 07:33:43 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Is plone fo me?
In-Reply-To: <45024042.5050405@seehart.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060908164759.00bde950@localhost>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20060908172416.00be4a38@localhost>
	<45024042.5050405@seehart.com>
Message-ID: <1157812423.5242.27.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 2006-09-08 at 21:17 -0700, Ken Seehart wrote:
>  
> I have no use for things like user customizable skins since 
> only a few people will have accounts, and the target audience will be 
> anonymous read-only users.

You may take it as read that I concur with everything Steve already told
you.

I'll just add that I think you may be mistakenly assuming that the only
use of 'skins' in Plone is to give users the ability to change the look
of the site. That isn't so. I'd say that most public Plone sites turn
off the user-switchable skin feature, but they still use skins to change
the default look and feel.

Any part of the look that you want to change that can't be accomplished
by changing configuration, find the right template in the skins and
click the 'customize' button. This creates an editable copy of the
template file in the 'custom' skin, which overrides the original. Edit
it, hit save, and reload the site (in another browser window) to see the
change immediately.

This is a pretty simple and direct model for accomplishing look and feel
changes *very* quickly.

All that said, you do have a couple of other choices in the Zope-based
CMS world that you might want to check out:

        Silva (which is generally simpler than Plone):
        http://www.infrae.com/products/silva
        
        Nuxeo CPS (which is roughly equivalent to Plone: More
        sophisticated in some ways, less in others):
        http://www.cps-project.org/

But Plone is definitely the most popular choice these days.

- Michael Bernstein


From jjinux at gmail.com  Mon Sep 11 19:22:19 2006
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:22:19 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Is plone fo me?
In-Reply-To: <45024042.5050405@seehart.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060908164759.00bde950@localhost>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20060908172416.00be4a38@localhost>
	<45024042.5050405@seehart.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90609111022y27681a8bm4662f2d2fc69ad7@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/8/06, Ken Seehart <ken at seehart.com> wrote:
> I am fairly experienced with Zope.  I have heard people complain that
> Zope is monolithic to the point of being annoying.  My experience is
> that Zope really isn't all that bad.  But from what I've seen so far of
> Plone, by skimming the documentation and attempting to play with it, I
> am starting to get the impression that Plone really is as monolithic as
> I originally thought Zope would be.  I'm hoping to hear otherwise.
>
> What I want to do:
>
> 1. Get complete control of the main look and feel.  I have implemented a
> Zope page template exactly as I want it.  The template is a finely tuned
> table with perfectly aligned graphics.  Plone seems to want to let me
> plug in bits and pieces to customize aspect of the look, but I need to
> actually control the arrangement of the entire page.  In fact, I don't
> think the final result will look much like a Plone page at all.
>
> 2. Allow users to add content by editing plain text.  The user should be
> able to select whether the page is a calendar event, a main menu page,
> etc, and automatically add a link to the appropriate list.  (this item
> is why I would look at Plone at all).  I will need to implement my own
> page templates with custom scripting to display certain lists.
>
> 3. I want to implement my own custom regular expression substitutions on
> the structured text content.
>
> Is Plone too shrink-wrapped for what I need?  Should I just stick with
> Zope and implement my own variation on existing structured text tools?
>
> Here's a link to my prototype: http://www.seehart.com/aikidosantacruz.org
>
> If you take a look at that link, you will notice that it will use a
> rather small portion of the features available in Plone.  What I think
> is annoying about Plone is that it looks like I will spend a bunch of
> time removing unused features from the main page!  The default Plone
> page is really fancy, but I would much prefer to start with an empty
> page, and that add what I need.  Note that the bottom portion of the
> menu will not be visible to non-authenticated users, who will be in the
> majority.  I have no use for things like user customizable skins since
> only a few people will have accounts, and the target audience will be
> anonymous read-only users.
>
> Plone looks like it has more than enough features for me.  I just want
> to start with a clean empty page, not the ridiculously excessive swiss
> army knife of the standard default page.
>
> Thanks,

My opinion is *not biased.*  I have my own Web framework (Aquarium),
but I also know Django, Zope, and Plone.  I agree that Plone is a good
fit for your needs.  I used Plone to build my church's Web site
<http://myallsaints.org>.  I agree with pretty much everything Steve
said.  I do think you should take the time to read the book.

Best Regards,
-jj

From tpc247 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 11 21:11:57 2006
From: tpc247 at gmail.com (tpc247 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:11:57 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] carpool for meeting from East Bay ?
Message-ID: <bae1efdf0609111211s23206563kdaa6f0b333cf7de2@mail.gmail.com>

hi guys, so I was really looking forward to seeing a demo of plone and
wonder if anyone would like to carpool from the East Bay for this Thursday's
meeting at Google.  I can drive or catch a ride with someone if convenient.
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From jessie at 41414.com  Tue Sep 12 00:45:16 2006
From: jessie at 41414.com (Jessie Garrehy)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 15:45:16 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Searching 4: Python Developer
Message-ID: <000b01c6d5f3$f3869310$8302a8c0@Jessie>

Python Developer/Software Developer

Company: Limbo, Inc. (www.41414.com) 
Location: Burlingame, CA (USA) 
Contact: jessie at 41414.com 

BACKGROUND 
Limbo is a company that creates & markets mobile services that enhance
consumers' lives. 

 

Our first product is the Limbo Auction; simply put, a Limbo Auction is a
hybrid of a game and an auction that you play on your mobile phone. The
winner of a Limbo Auction is the person making the lowest unique bid. With a
Limbo Auction somebody wins, but nobody loses; each bid receives loot, and
this loot can be redeemed for kewl stuff in our store. 

THE ROLE
We are looking for an experienced and enthusiastic python developer who will
work in our development team to bring out new exciting and fun mobile
applications for our users. You ideally have experience with python
development for the consumer entertainment, web merchandising and mobile
phone industry.


RESPONSIBILITIES 
. Be a key member of a small application development team 
. Work with the technical operations team to test, integrate and deploy the
mobile applications into a high-available production environment
. Help the team meet aggressive campaign launch timelines 

QUALIFICATION & EXPERIENCE 
. Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science or equivalent technical degree 
. Must be eligible to work in the United States and onsite in our Burlingame
offices 
. 3+ years post degree experience in software development 
. Experience with Python and J2EE/J2SE technologies 

. Knowledge of SQL (Oracle preferred), including experience with queries,
table creation, stored procedures/triggers, etc. 
. Experience developing for mission-critical, high-available, high-traffic
web sites 
. Experience with content management, source code management, revision
tracking, test cases, etc.
. Strong analytical and problem solving skills 
. Excellent written and verbal communication skills. People skills are as
critical as technical skills for this position. 
. Self-motivated with the ability to work both independently and as a team 
. Enthusiastic user of a mobile phone 
. Sense of humor

 

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From ken at seehart.com  Tue Sep 12 01:55:41 2006
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 16:55:41 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Is plone fo me?
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90609111022y27681a8bm4662f2d2fc69ad7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060908164759.00bde950@localhost>	
	<5.1.0.14.0.20060908172416.00be4a38@localhost>	
	<45024042.5050405@seehart.com>
	<c41f67b90609111022y27681a8bm4662f2d2fc69ad7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4505F77D.6060604@seehart.com>

Steve Hindle wrote:
> ...
> So, In my biased opinion - Plone would probably do quite well for you :-)
> It has its fair share of quirks, but if you already know Zope and you
> Already know Python - I'd at least play with it a little.  If you have
> to do any sort of web work on a regular basis, it can be time very
> well spent.
>
> Steve
>   

Michael Bernstein wrote:
> ...
> You may take it as read that I concur with everything Steve already told
> you.  ... skins ... Silva, Nuxeo CPS
Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> My opinion is *not biased.*  I have my own Web framework (Aquarium),
> but I also know Django, Zope, and Plone.  I agree that Plone is a good
> fit for your needs.  I used Plone to build my church's Web site
> <http://myallsaints.org>.  I agree with pretty much everything Steve
> said.  I do think you should take the time to read the book.
>
> Best Regards,
> -jj
Thanks for all your very helpful comments.  I've played with it a bit 
more, and now I am sold.  I've got this ADD thing of wanting to see 
"hello world" by the end of chapter one  :-) (as opposed to a starting 
with a "finished" full-featured web site which I can then customize).  
Following Steve's hint, (but perhaps not so much his advice), I found 
main_template and made my own custom/main_template, thereby "butchering" 
my plone, but quickly getting me where I wanted to be.  Since I could 
/theoretically /replace main_template with a "hello world" page, I 
somehow feel much better :-) .

- Ken Seehart


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From pmarxhausen at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 12 08:39:31 2006
From: pmarxhausen at yahoo.com (Paul Marxhausen)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 23:39:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baypiggies] clustering
In-Reply-To: <44FDB256.3000605@mvista.com>
Message-ID: <20060912063931.9461.qmail@web56405.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi,

see feature articles at 
http://www.linuxjournal.com/issue/149 for practical
beginner info on Beowulf, Condor, Heartbeat, and
parallel programming (also useful references and contacts).

Cheers,

Paul Marxhausen

--- "Carl J. Van Arsdall" <cvanarsdall at mvista.com> wrote:

> Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> > Hey Guys,
> >
> > I need to do some data processing, and I'd like to use a cluster so
> > that I don't have to grow old waiting for my computer to finish. 
> I'm
> > thinking about using the servers I have locally.  I'm completely
> new
> > to clustering.  I understand how to break a problem up into
> > paralizable pieces, but I don't understand the admin side of it. 
> My
> > current data set is about 16 gigs, and I need to do things like run
> > filters over strings, make sure strings are unique, etc.  I'll be
> > using Python wherever possible.
> >
> > * Do I have to run a particular Linux distro?  Do they all have to
> be
> > the same, or can I just setup a daemon on each machine?
> >   
>  From what I've seen this can vary.  For example if you are using PVM
> 
> then you should be able to have a heterogeneous cluster without too
> much 
> difficulty.  Although, personally, for ease of adminsitration, shit
> like 
> that, I prefer to keep things (at least on the software side) as
> similar 
> as I can.  The reality of the cluster is what you make of it
> 
> 
> > * What does "Beowulf" do for me?
> >   
> 
> Beowulf isn't so great.  There are a number of "active" clustering 
> technologies going on.  I've seen a bit about OpenMosix passed
> around, 
> although I believe it exists as kernel patches that are somewhat
> dated 
> last time I checked (they were for 2.4 kernels).  If you have a lot
> of 
> machines etc, you might even want to google load balancing clusters
> and 
> see what you get.
> > * How do I admin all the boxes without having to enter the same
> command n times?
> >   
> Check out dsh - dancer's shell.   If you are running a debian distro
> you 
> can just apt-get it, I use it all the time, a really handy tool.
> 
> 
> > * I've heard that MPI is good and standard.  Should I use it?  Can
> I
> > use it with Python programs?
> >   
> As far as parallel programs go, MPI (and sometimes PVM) tend to be
> the 
> best ways to achieve maximum speed although they tend to incur more 
> development overhead.  Lots of people also use combinations of MPI
> and 
> OpenMP (or pthreads, whatev, openMP is nice and easy and soon to be 
> standard in gcc) when they have clusters of smp machines.  In my 
> experience, when you have lots of data to move around it can
> definitely 
> be to your advantage to use MPI as you can control specifically how
> data 
> will be passed around and setup a network to match that.  With 16
> gigs 
> of data you will really want to look at your network topology and how
> 
> you choose to distribute the data.
> 
> 
> 
> > * Is there anything better than NFS that I could use to access the
> data?
> >   
> I've seen a number of different ways to do this.  You can google 
> distributed shared file systems, I think there are a couple projects
> out 
> there, although I've never used any of them and I'd be very much 
> interested in anyone's stories if they had any.
> 
> 
> > * What hip, slick, and cool these days?
> >   
> You might even check out some grid computing stuff, kinda neat imho. 
> 
> Also, when you get a cluster up and running with MPI or whatever you 
> might want to go as far as to profile your code and find the serious 
> bottlenecks in your application.  Check out TAU (Tuning Analysis and 
> Utilities), it has python bindings as well as MPI/OpenMP stuff.  Not 
> that you will use it, that's just one of those things you can google 
> should you be bored at work or interested in that typa stuff, and its
> a 
> good way to justify to your employer why you need to install
> infiniband 
> as your network ;)
> 
> 
> > I just need you point me in the right direction and tell me what's
> > good and what's a waste of time.
> >   
> Well, as you know you prob want to avoid python threads, although
> I've 
> set up a fairly primitive distributed system with python threads and 
> ssh.  Everything is I/O bound for me, so it works really well,
> although 
> I'm looking into better distributed technologies.  Just more stuff to
> 
> play with as we learn (and i'm reading all the links people have
> posted 
> in response to your questions too, lots of good stuff)!  I'd also be 
> interested in the solution you choose, so if you ever want to post a 
> follow up thread I'd be happy to read the results of your project!
> 
> 
> -carl
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Carl J. Van Arsdall
> cvanarsdall at mvista.com
> Build and Release
> MontaVista Software
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> 


From mrbmahoney at gmail.com  Tue Sep 12 19:25:11 2006
From: mrbmahoney at gmail.com (Brian Mahoney)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:25:11 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Dinner Announcement - Thursday, Sept 14, 6 pm
Message-ID: <5538c19b0609121025x5becbeb5g128b76a128e028cf@mail.gmail.com>

For Thursday, Sept 14, I can coordinate a pre-meeting
dinner in Mountain View, before the BayPIGgies meeting
at Google ( Meeting details http://baypiggies.net/ )

Restaurant RVSPs may be sent to my email until
Thursday afternoon (earlier is better). We eat family-style,
there are vegetarian and non-vegetarian dishes.  Cost around
$10 per person, including tax and tip. Bring cash, please.

Start dinner at 6pm and I will keep things moving so that we
finish and get everyone headed towards Google to
complete sign-in before the 7:30 meeting start.

The restaurant is Cafe Yulong in downtown Mountain View
(650) 960-1677
743 W Dana Street, 1/2 block from Castro where
Books, Inc is on the corner.
Parking lots all around, but downtown Mountain View
parking is still difficult.

It is a slightly out of the ordinary Chinese
restaurant.  This link has a downtown map and
additional information.
http://www.mountainviewca.net/restaurants/cafeyulong.html

I've made reservations under "Python" for 6pm
Thursday.

If you wish to join us for dinner please e-mail me
by 3 pm Thursday (earlier is better) so I may confirm
the headcount.

From KSimmons at factset.com  Wed Sep 13 01:00:54 2006
From: KSimmons at factset.com (Keith Simmons)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:00:54 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Quality Assurance Engineer for Real Time Market Data
	Product
Message-ID: <OF4F94D3F6.A0F34143-ON882571E7.007AD003-882571E7.007E6D31@factset.com>

Hey guys,

I'm currently trying to fill a QA position that will be responsible for 
testing our real time market data infrastructure.  The servers in this 
infrastructure distribute messages (several thousand per second) from 
financial markets to clients spread around the globe in a low latency, 
fault tolerant manner.   The high load and zero downtime requirements make 
the problems we tackle pretty interesting, and allow us to play with some 
cool technologies, like customized data compression and streaming 
databases.

Previously, the only way to interact with our server was via our GUI app, 
which introduced a layer of complexity that often masked data issues and 
made the primarily manual QA process difficult and error prone.  However, 
recently, one of our developers created python bindings directly into our 
c++ server code, allowing us to interact with the server infrastructure 
via a python script.  This tool gives us a new level of flexibility and 
will hopefully open the door for a much more thorough, automated QA 
process. Now we need to find someone to lead this effort.  The ideal 
candidate will have an interest in QA but also have strong engineering 
skills and python experience (I imagine the latter is a given considering 
the list I'm posting this on).  They will be responsible for creating an 
automated QA process, which means writing python scripts and possibly 
building new QA tools.  The full description is below.  If you have any 
questions, feel free to contact me directly at ksimmons at factset.com.

Keith



FactSet Research Systems is a major supplier of online integrated 
financial and economic information to the investment management and 
banking industries.  For analysts, portfolio managers, investment bankers 
and other financial professionals, FactSet is a comprehensive, one-stop 
source of financial information and analytics.
FactSet is currently looking for a Software Quality Engineer.  This 
position is responsible for verifying the accuracy and reliability of 
Factset?s real time server under all working conditions.  To uphold 
quality standards, the engineer will be required to create, maintain, and 
execute an automated suite of scripted tests which will scan for bugs in 
new server builds as well as ensure production servers are functioning 
properly.  A successful candidate will be a good communicator, detail 
oriented, familiar with the requirements and pitfalls of server 
development, and comfortable with scripting languages.

Responsibilities
?        Design, implement, and execute automated tests of Factset?s real 
time server using a high level scripting language
?        Creation of a simulated server network that will act as a test 
bed for automated scripts
?        Create and execute test plans to evaluate new and existing 
features for each release
?        Evaluate robustness and scalability of infrastructure level 
components
?        Work closely with product management to maintain the level of 
quality in the product over multiple releases.
?        Work closely with software engineering team to determine the best 
way to increase the quality of the product.
?        Act as advocate for, and guardian of, the user experience.

Minimum Requirements
?        A Bachelors degree in computer science or related field
?        At least 2 years of experience with a programming language
?        Ability to communicate well with engineers and business 
principals.
?        Ability to learn new technologies quickly.
?        Ability to work both independently and in groups and be able to 
set own goals based on shifting priorities.
?        Experience with multithreaded applications

Highly Desired: 
?        At least 2 years of experience with the python scripting language
?        At least 2 years experience in Software Quality Assurance.
?        At least 2 years experience with server development or testing
?        Experience generating automated tests based on pre-existing 
documentation (technical specification, bug reports, etc).
?        Familiarity with basic networking concepts
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From KSimmons at factset.com  Wed Sep 13 01:16:01 2006
From: KSimmons at factset.com (Keith Simmons)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:16:01 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Quality Assurance Engineer for Real Time Market
	Data	Product
In-Reply-To: <OF4F94D3F6.A0F34143-ON882571E7.007AD003-882571E7.007E6D31@factset.com>
Message-ID: <OF4F9263D5.DE8BE407-ON882571E7.007FB496-882571E7.007FCF4D@factset.com>

I forgot to mention that this position will be based in our San Mateo 
office.




Keith Simmons <KSimmons at factset.com> 
Sent by: baypiggies-bounces at python.org
09/12/2006 04:00 PM

To
baypiggies at python.org
cc

Subject
[Baypiggies] Quality Assurance Engineer for Real Time Market Data Product







Hey guys, 

I'm currently trying to fill a QA position that will be responsible for 
testing our real time market data infrastructure.  The servers in this 
infrastructure distribute messages (several thousand per second) from 
financial markets to clients spread around the globe in a low latency, 
fault tolerant manner.   The high load and zero downtime requirements make 
the problems we tackle pretty interesting, and allow us to play with some 
cool technologies, like customized data compression and streaming 
databases. 

Previously, the only way to interact with our server was via our GUI app, 
which introduced a layer of complexity that often masked data issues and 
made the primarily manual QA process difficult and error prone.  However, 
recently, one of our developers created python bindings directly into our 
c++ server code, allowing us to interact with the server infrastructure 
via a python script.  This tool gives us a new level of flexibility and 
will hopefully open the door for a much more thorough, automated QA 
process. Now we need to find someone to lead this effort.  The ideal 
candidate will have an interest in QA but also have strong engineering 
skills and python experience (I imagine the latter is a given considering 
the list I'm posting this on).  They will be responsible for creating an 
automated QA process, which means writing python scripts and possibly 
building new QA tools.  The full description is below.  If you have any 
questions, feel free to contact me directly at ksimmons at factset.com. 

Keith 



FactSet Research Systems is a major supplier of online integrated 
financial and economic information to the investment management and 
banking industries.  For analysts, portfolio managers, investment bankers 
and other financial professionals, FactSet is a comprehensive, one-stop 
source of financial information and analytics. 
FactSet is currently looking for a Software Quality Engineer.  This 
position is responsible for verifying the accuracy and reliability of 
Factset?s real time server under all working conditions.  To uphold 
quality standards, the engineer will be required to create, maintain, and 
execute an automated suite of scripted tests which will scan for bugs in 
new server builds as well as ensure production servers are functioning 
properly.  A successful candidate will be a good communicator, detail 
oriented, familiar with the requirements and pitfalls of server 
development, and comfortable with scripting languages. 

Responsibilities 
?        Design, implement, and execute automated tests of Factset?s real 
time server using a high level scripting language 
?        Creation of a simulated server network that will act as a test 
bed for automated scripts 
?        Create and execute test plans to evaluate new and existing 
features for each release 
?        Evaluate robustness and scalability of infrastructure level 
components 
?        Work closely with product management to maintain the level of 
quality in the product over multiple releases. 
?        Work closely with software engineering team to determine the best 
way to increase the quality of the product. 
?        Act as advocate for, and guardian of, the user experience. 

Minimum Requirements 
?        A Bachelors degree in computer science or related field 
?        At least 2 years of experience with a programming language 
?        Ability to communicate well with engineers and business 
principals. 
?        Ability to learn new technologies quickly. 
?        Ability to work both independently and in groups and be able to 
set own goals based on shifting priorities. 
?        Experience with multithreaded applications 

Highly Desired:         
?        At least 2 years of experience with the python scripting language 

?        At least 2 years experience in Software Quality Assurance. 
?        At least 2 years experience with server development or testing 
?        Experience generating automated tests based on pre-existing 
documentation (technical specification, bug reports, etc). 
?        Familiarity with basic networking concepts 
_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
Baypiggies at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

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From lhawthorn at google.com  Wed Sep 13 01:27:18 2006
From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:27:18 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Don't Forget to Pre-Register for the 9/14 BayPiggies
	Meeting
Message-ID: <4869cee70609121627l742ff40brf14c8a4249cd33d7@mail.google.com>

Hello everyone,

If you haven't done so already, please take a moment to pre-register for the
BayPiggies meeting at Google coming up this Thursday, 9/14. (
http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings)

I'll be sending the visitor list to our visitor team tomorrow evening, so
please try to sign up before 5:00 PM.  Anyone who would prefer not to add
their name to the public wiki is welcome to email me directly.

If you don't have the opportunity to pre-register, please plan to sign in at
reception when you arrive on Thursday.

Cheers,
LH

-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Open Source Program Office
Google Inc.
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From jim at well.com  Fri Sep 15 00:39:39 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 15:39:39 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] need python tutor in san francisco
Message-ID: <E7CE9CEC-4441-11DB-A238-000A95EA5592@well.com>


i need someone to help me learn python, mainly
installation, configuration, adding libraries, other
system-level stuff as well as getting comfortable
with the language.

This in San Francisco, can do most--maybe all--
work by phone, email, and logging in to my servers.

I have some programming experience but am
stumbling over some python basics.

jim at well.com


From bob at redivi.com  Fri Sep 15 01:19:52 2006
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 16:19:52 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] need python tutor in san francisco
In-Reply-To: <E7CE9CEC-4441-11DB-A238-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <E7CE9CEC-4441-11DB-A238-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290609141619i7cb27ee7obb8f19f9f5d2b7a@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/14/06, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
> i need someone to help me learn python, mainly
> installation, configuration, adding libraries, other
> system-level stuff as well as getting comfortable
> with the language.
>
> This in San Francisco, can do most--maybe all--
> work by phone, email, and logging in to my servers.
>
> I have some programming experience but am
> stumbling over some python basics.

You'd probably be better off asking specific questions to python-list,
here, or in #python on IRC if you want quick answers. You really don't
need someone local to answer your questions.

-bob

From jim at well.com  Fri Sep 15 07:00:38 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:00:38 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] need python tutor in san francisco
In-Reply-To: <6a36e7290609141619i7cb27ee7obb8f19f9f5d2b7a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E7CE9CEC-4441-11DB-A238-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<6a36e7290609141619i7cb27ee7obb8f19f9f5d2b7a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20EBAAF4-4477-11DB-A238-000A95EA5592@well.com>


thank you, bob; i agree in the main. trouble is i
can't get python programs to run, so i need to
fix my linux box or the way python is installed
on it. I have BASH, C, and Perl experience, so
I can learn most things from books and tutorials,
with a little hand-holding here and there.
jim


On Sep 14, 2006, at 4:19 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote:

> On 9/14/06, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>>
>> i need someone to help me learn python, mainly
>> installation, configuration, adding libraries, other
>> system-level stuff as well as getting comfortable
>> with the language.
>>
>> This in San Francisco, can do most--maybe all--
>> work by phone, email, and logging in to my servers.
>>
>> I have some programming experience but am
>> stumbling over some python basics.
>
> You'd probably be better off asking specific questions to python-list,
> here, or in #python on IRC if you want quick answers. You really don't
> need someone local to answer your questions.
>
> -bob
>


From eddymulyono at mail.com  Fri Sep 15 08:18:43 2006
From: eddymulyono at mail.com (Eddy Mulyono)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 23:18:43 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Framework Comparison Screencast: J2EE, Rails, Zope,
	Turbogears, Django
Message-ID: <67357fc10609142318ndf0a744o8134d62f56ef65a3@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all.

I want to thank Donna for introducing Plone to us at the September meeting.

During Random Access, some people were comparing frameworks. Here's my 2 cents.

From: http://catalyst.scelerat.com/2006/07/30/framework-comparison-screencast-j2ee-rails-zope-turbogears-django/

A fellow at the Jet Propulsion Lab in Pasadena prepared an excellent
screencast comparing J2EE, Rails, Zope, TurboGears, and Django web
development frameworks (30 min / 380 MB Quicktime). Totally worth
downloading if you're into that sort of thing (webdev frameworks, not
downloading).

Screencast URL:
http://oodt.jpl.nasa.gov/better-web-app.mov

Enjoy,

-Eddy Mulyono

From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Fri Sep 15 10:58:59 2006
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna M. Snow)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 01:58:59 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Plone demo follow-up
Message-ID: <450A6B53.8080707@gmail.com>

Thank you so much for letting me speak tonight (last night) I appreciate 
your patience in light of the slow start (and my nervousness :-)).

There were a few questions after the meeting that I wanted to address 
(some of them were asked multiple times)

How to remove the "login" or "join" link

In the Zope Management Interface under portal_memberdata - click on 
"Actions" tab
Find the title "Log In" ..uncheck the "visible" checkbox (so now it 
won't show). Same with the "join" link..
(if you need better explanation.. I can arrange to walk you through it 
over the phone)

Skinning/Theming (I had planned on showing you a few sites that I'd skinned)

The digitalmusicnews.com site that was being visited last night.. is not 
the new Plone site (it's the Zope 2.7 site which needs upgrading..I'm 
working on the site on my demo server). I'll post here when the new site 
goes live.. just as an FYI.

A couple sites I've skinned, that I can show you..(no NDA or private 
intranet) (they all started out looking just like the vanilla Plone site 
I showed you last night)
http://www.esginc.com
http://www.pariveda.com
http://www.tfpllc.com

Training -
http://www.plonebootcamps.com - Joel Burton is the premier Plone trainer..
If you can't get to one of this sessions.. then I recommend reading Andy 
McKay's book online..
http://docs.neuroinf.de/PloneBook - although the version mentioned in 
the book is a few versions back..it still applies and it's an excellent 
book for developers.

Also, I'm a presenter at the Plone Conference in October. My talk is on 
Plone Blogs (a few of the 100's of products that Plone has 
available)..so if you happen to be attending.. look me up :-)

Donna M. Snow, Owner
C Squared Technologies
content management systems
hosting-consulting-design













From dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Fri Sep 15 16:49:27 2006
From: dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 07:49:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baypiggies] need python tutor in san francisco
In-Reply-To: <6a36e7290609141619i7cb27ee7obb8f19f9f5d2b7a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E7CE9CEC-4441-11DB-A238-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<6a36e7290609141619i7cb27ee7obb8f19f9f5d2b7a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0609150748540.4423@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu>

>> I have some programming experience but am
>> stumbling over some python basics.
>
> You'd probably be better off asking specific questions to python-list,
> here, or in #python on IRC if you want quick answers. You really don't
> need someone local to answer your questions.

You're also welcome to the python-tutor mailing list:

     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

From markie at ydl.net  Sat Sep 16 07:00:16 2006
From: markie at ydl.net (Mark Jaffe)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 22:00:16 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Foothill Python course?
Message-ID: <7AC271DB-FADD-4C61-889F-D78DE1EBDFBB@ydl.net>

Hi,

Would the person who will be teaching at Foothill College please  
respond with some details of the class schedule, duration, cost, etc?  
I am interested for a colleague at my employer.

Thanks,
Mark
-- 
Mark Jaffe
markie at ydl.net
408-807-2093 (cell)

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From markie at ydl.net  Mon Sep 18 05:29:47 2006
From: markie at ydl.net (Mark Jaffe)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 20:29:47 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] question for plone users
Message-ID: <A409763F-89C4-41A2-A86D-DB1B2B19BE00@ydl.net>

Hi,

Well, after Thursday's presentation, I thought it might be  
interesting to try it out, so I installed it on a server I am setting  
up. It works fine when accessed from the localhost but I need to find  
out why I can't access it from any other machine on the network,  
using the host's IP. There does not seem to be any clue in the docs  
that I could find.

Mark
-- 
Mark Jaffe
markie at ydl.net
408-807-2093 (cell)

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From DennisR at dair.com  Mon Sep 18 05:39:28 2006
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 20:39:28 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] question for plone users
In-Reply-To: <A409763F-89C4-41A2-A86D-DB1B2B19BE00@ydl.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060917203543.00bed5a8@localhost>

At 08:29 PM 9/17/2006, Mark Jaffe wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Well, after Thursday's presentation, I thought it might be interesting to 
>try it out, so I installed it on a server I am setting up. It works fine 
>when accessed from the localhost but I need to find out why I can't access 
>it from any other machine on the network, using the host's IP. There does 
>not seem to be any clue in the docs that I could find.

If the *server* is listening on IP address 127.0.0.1 (localhost), you never 
will be able to access the server from another machine.  The server needs 
to listen on IP address 0.0.0.0 for what you want to do.  I don't know 
about Plone docs but your description sounds very much like your server is 
listening on 127.0.0.1.

Regards, Dennis

----------------------------------
| Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com   |
| Reinhardt | http://WinAjax.com |
----------------------------------


From lavendula6654 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 18 06:06:42 2006
From: lavendula6654 at yahoo.com (Elaine)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 21:06:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Course at Foothill College
Message-ID: <20060918040642.89838.qmail@web31715.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

If you would like to learn Python, Foothill College in
Los Altos Hills, CA  is offering a course starting
Mon. evening, 25 Sept. The course is designed for
students who are already familiar with some type of
programming. Here is the course description:

CIS 68K  "INTRODUCTION TO PYTHON PROGRAMMING"  5 Units
This course will introduce students to the Python
language and environment. Python is a portable,
interpreted, object-oriented programming language that
is often compared to Perl, Java, Scheme and Tcl. The
language has an elegant syntax, dynamic typing, and a
small number of powerful, high-level data types. It
also has modules, classes, and exceptions. The modules
provide interfaces to many system calls and libraries,
as well as to various windowing systems(X11, Motif,
Tk, Mac, MFC). New built-in modules are easily written
in C or C++. Such extension modules can define new
functions and variables as well as new object types.
Four hours lecture, four hours terminal time. 

If you would like to sign up for the class, please
register beforehand by going to:
http://www.foothill.fhda.edu/reg/index.php

If you have questions, you can contact the instructor
at:
haightElaine at foothill.edu

Thanks!
     -Elaine Haight


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From lavendula6654 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 18 07:02:16 2006
From: lavendula6654 at yahoo.com (Elaine)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 22:02:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baypiggies] [Tutor] Python Course at Foothill College
In-Reply-To: <450E1CAB.4030201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060918050216.42856.qmail@web31710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Foothill is a community college (2-year college), and
CIS is computer information systems. I always teach
the fundamentals like how to write efficient,
modifiable and documented software. This is an
introductory course, so we won't be covering data
structures and algorithms. We will cover files,
Exceptions, Classes. regular expressions and Tkinter,
et al.

Thanks for the interest!
    -Elaine 

--- Luke Paireepinart <rabidpoobear at gmail.com> wrote:

> Elaine wrote:
> > If you would like to learn Python, Foothill
> College in
> > Los Altos Hills, CA  is offering a course starting
> > Mon. evening, 25 Sept. The course is designed for
> > students who are already familiar with some type
> of
> > programming. Here is the course description:
> >
> > CIS 68K  "INTRODUCTION TO PYTHON PROGRAMMING"  5
> Units
> 
> CIS is Computer Information Systems at my school.
> CIS is part of the business school and doesn't have
> much to do with 
> Computer Science.
> Is that how it is there as well?
> If so, do you have Computer Science courses in
> Python as well?
> (I don't live anywhere near CA, I'm just
> interested.)
> Wish my school used Python.
> -Luke
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From Peter at PeterKellner.net  Tue Sep 19 07:04:46 2006
From: Peter at PeterKellner.net (Kellner, Peter)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 01:04:46 -0400
Subject: [Baypiggies] Invitation to Present at CodeCamp,
	Foothill College 10/7 and 8
Message-ID: <1439CE79177FA8408B58452E95637F1B87D9EE@ntxbeus07.exchange.xchg>

Hi,

 

My name is Peter Kellner and I'm the organizer for the upcoming Silicon
Valley Code Camp at Foothill College October 7th and 8th.  This meeting
is basically a free all volunteer event put on by developers for
developers.  Foothill has graciously let us use there space and we are
currently busy gathering sponsors for other things.

 

The reason I'm writing to this list is we need more speakers.  We
currently have 16 sessions including one on Iron Python by Mahesh
Prakriya of Microsoft.  We'd love to have more dynamic language talks.
Other Python topics, Zope, Ruby, Testing, etc. would be great.  Of
course, there will be fun and prizes so if you can make it as attendee
or presenter, we'd love to have you.

 

Thanks for reading and hope to see you at CodeCamp.

 

http://www.siliconvalley-codecamp.com/Home.aspx

 

Peter Kellner

http://peterkellner.net

 

 

 PS: Iron Python Session:
http://www.siliconvalley-codecamp.com/Sessions.aspx?id=9633ba6d-36ce-46a
0-a3e6-ba09645a00a5

 

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From markie at ydl.net  Mon Sep 25 08:42:46 2006
From: markie at ydl.net (Mark Jaffe)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:42:46 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Ducky Sherwood...
Message-ID: <6A8C4742-7A11-47F9-925C-E87E7F2219FD@ydl.net>

Ducky,

Please contact me off-list. I need to ask you if you are the person I  
saw roller-skating along the street in Mountain View this summer. And  
I need to know more about your involvement with Google.

Mark
-- 
Mark Jaffe
markie at ydl.net
408-807-2093 (cell)

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From rdm at cfcl.com  Mon Sep 25 19:16:54 2006
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:16:54 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Beer & Scripting SIG reminder
Message-ID: <p06230982c13dbefdbedc@[192.168.254.205]>

The Beer & Scripting SIG (http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass) will
take place Wednesday evening, 8/27.  Be there or be elsewhere!

In case you were wondering, the discussions at BASS gatherings
are not, erm, scripted.  Rather, they reflect the interests of
whatever scripters happen to show up that evening.  One recent
gathering focused on databases (especially PostgreSQL); other
gatherings have discussed the vagaries of doing scripting for
a living, which languages folks like (and why), etc.

Sometimes, folks bring in books that they have recently read,
software that they want to show off, etc.  The informal nature
of the gatherings allows this, as long as it doesn't conflict
with important things like ordering and eating food!


Also note that the calendar of Bay Area Scripting Events is
available and open to submissions (all your BASE are belong
to us :-).

  *  webcal://cfcl.com/pub_dav/BA_Scripting_Groups.ics
  *  http://cfcl.com/pub_dav/BA_Scripting_Groups.ics

and that the list of local scripting groups is online at

  SF Bay Area Scripting Groups
  http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass/groups.php

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From rdm at cfcl.com  Mon Sep 25 19:28:43 2006
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:28:43 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Beer & Scripting SIG reminder (resend)
Message-ID: <p06230983c13dc2147848@[192.168.254.205]>

[ Fixed the day; botched the month!  Sigh.  -r ]


The Beer & Scripting SIG (http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass) will
take place Wednesday evening, 9/27.  Be there or be elsewhere!

In case you were wondering, the discussions at BASS gatherings
are not, erm, scripted.  Rather, they reflect the interests of
whatever scripters happen to show up that evening.  One recent
gathering focused on databases (especially PostgreSQL); other
gatherings have discussed the vagaries of doing scripting for
a living, which languages folks like (and why), etc.

Sometimes, folks bring in books that they have recently read,
software that they want to show off, etc.  The informal nature
of the gatherings allows this, as long as it doesn't conflict
with important things like ordering and eating food!


Also note that the calendar of Bay Area Scripting Events is
available and open to submissions (all your BASE are belong
to us :-).

  *  webcal://cfcl.com/pub_dav/BA_Scripting_Groups.ics
  *  http://cfcl.com/pub_dav/BA_Scripting_Groups.ics

and that the list of local scripting groups is online at

  SF Bay Area Scripting Groups
  http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass/groups.php

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Sep 28 16:28:27 2006
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:28:27 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Moshe Zadka Oct 6-7
Message-ID: <20060928142827.GA2794@panix.com>

Moshe Zadka (Python/Zope developer from Israel) will be out here for
business next week and hopes to have some free time Fri/Sat Oct 6-7.
He's staying near SFO.  If someone (not me, I'm busy) wants to organize
a BayPIGgies get-together that may or may not cause him to show up, that
would probably be a Good Thing.  (We're competing with at least the local
filkers for his free time. ;-)  That's how I found out he's coming.)

If you want to coordinate with Moshe, you can reach him at
moshez at divmod.com
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"LL YR VWL R BLNG T S"  -- www.nancybuttons.com

From jim at well.com  Fri Sep 29 15:34:22 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 06:34:22 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: [Tutor] what.built-in
Message-ID: <3775BF36-4FBF-11DB-873F-000A95EA5592@well.com>



Begin forwarded message:

> From: jim stockford <jim at well.com>
> Date: September 29, 2006 6:24:31 AM PDT
> To: tutor at python.org
> Subject: [Tutor] what.built-in
>
> from
> http://docs.python.org/lib/built-in-funcs.html
> some functions are always available--the built-in functions.
>
> (from elsewhere) everything in python is an object.
>
> --------------------
>
> hey, from abs() to zip() there's type() and super() and str()
> and setattr() and ... dir() and... they're the built-ins
>
> my question: what.abs()  what.zip() etc.?
>
> I think there must be a base object, a la java or Nextstep,
> that supports these functions. what is it?
>
> maybe it's not practical, but it's driving me nuts anyway.
> thanks in advance.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>
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From hsuclarklarry at sbcglobal.net  Fri Sep 29 18:11:59 2006
From: hsuclarklarry at sbcglobal.net (Laurence Clark)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:11:59 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: [Tutor] what.built-in
In-Reply-To: <3775BF36-4FBF-11DB-873F-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <3775BF36-4FBF-11DB-873F-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <451D45CF.9010207@sbcglobal.net>

And what this about "new style objects". Do they have a "new style" 
common base class?

jim stockford wrote:

>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>     *From: *jim stockford <jim at well.com>
>     *Date: *September 29, 2006 6:24:31 AM PDT
>     *To: *tutor at python.org
>     *Subject: [Tutor] what.built-in
>     *
>     from
>     http://docs.python.org/lib/built-in-funcs.html
>     some functions are always available--the built-in functions.
>
>     (from elsewhere) everything in python is an object.
>
>     --------------------
>
>     hey, from abs() to zip() there's type() and super() and str()
>     and setattr() and ... dir() and... they're the built-ins
>
>     my question: what.abs() what.zip() etc.?
>
>     I think there must be a base object, a la java or Nextstep,
>     that supports these functions. what is it?
>
>     maybe it's not practical, but it's driving me nuts anyway.
>     thanks in advance.
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Tutor maillist - Tutor at python.org
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Baypiggies mailing list
>Baypiggies at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>  
>
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