From dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com Mon Sep 2 14:07:40 2013 From: dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com (Dhruv Baldawa) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 17:37:40 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [gsoc-india] Re: A BoF session about Google Summer of Code at PyConIndia tomorrow In-Reply-To: <6181efe9-01ff-4e1b-a822-4fde54efcbfd@googlegroups.com> References: <6181efe9-01ff-4e1b-a822-4fde54efcbfd@googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi, It was awesome meeting everyone at PyCon. Sarup, can you make the spreadsheet you created earlier public ? Everyone can add/update their details accordingly. -- Dhruv Baldawa (http://www.dhruvb.com) On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Anuj Deshpande wrote: > Could we have the group photo posted here ? > > > On Saturday, August 31, 2013 11:55:18 PM UTC+5:30, Amber Jain wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I hope that everyone who was a PyCon India today enjoyed it a lot (like I >> did). >> >> I'm a Google Summer of Code 2012 intern. I met over a dozen fellow >> GSoCers at PyCon India today. I'm sure that there are other ex-GSoC interns >> roaming around at PyConIndia's venue. Dhananjay (another ex-GSoCer) >> suggested to do a BoF [1] session to talk about GSoC. All current/past GSoC >> interns/mentors (as well as those who are interested in applying to GSoC in >> future) are invited. I guess this will be the first time GSoC interns from >> different years and from different states of India will be together at one >> place. >> >> Please note, afaik, you can only attend PyCon India if you purchased a >> ticket from http://in.pycon.org/2013/. I'm sorry but we can't do >> anything about this. Please make sure that you have a PyCon India ticket >> before you plan to attend this event. >> >> Date: September 1, 2013 >> Time: 12:15pm >> Venue: PyCon India Open Space (Auditorium 3 at NIMHANS Convention Center: >> https://maps.google.com/maps?**q=NIMHANS+convention+centre+** >> bangalore&t=m&z=13 >> ). >> >> See you there! >> >> >> [0] http://www.google-melange.com/**gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2013 >> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Birds_of_a_feather_%**28computing%29 >> >> -- >> Amber Jain >> i.ambe... at gmail.com >> http://amberj.devio.us/ >> > -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google Summer of Code - Indian Community" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to gsoc-india+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/gsoc-india. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > From babmis at outlook.com Mon Sep 2 16:30:05 2013 From: babmis at outlook.com (babmis) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 20:00:05 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] How to run a block of code just before the interpreter is being exited like END{} in perl ?? Message-ID: From superpulse.x at gmail.com Mon Sep 2 16:39:01 2013 From: superpulse.x at gmail.com (venkatakrishnan g) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 20:09:01 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] How to run a block of code just before the interpreter is being exited like END{} in perl ?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: import atexit def callback(): print "about to exit!" atexit.register( callback ) On 2 September 2013 20:00, babmis wrote: > > ______________________________**_________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From anandpillai at letterboxes.org Mon Sep 2 21:57:49 2013 From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai) Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 01:27:49 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] How to run a block of code just before the interpreter is being exited like END{} in perl ?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5224EDBD.1030000@letterboxes.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 02 September 2013 08:09 PM, venkatakrishnan g wrote: > import atexit > > def callback(): print "about to exit!" > > atexit.register( callback ) Better use it as decorator. import atexit @atexit.register def last_man_standing(): print "Hasta la vista, Baby."p This is another version of this by mucking around directly with sys.exitfunc using a with context. from contextlib import contextmanager @contextmanager def end_of_days(): def wrapper(): print 'Goodbye.' yield wrapper with end_of_days() as sys.exitfunc: print 3+4 > > > On 2 September 2013 20:00, babmis wrote: > >> >> ______________________________**_________________ BangPypers >> mailing list BangPypers at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> > >> _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > - -- Regards, - --Anand - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Software Architect/Consultant anandpillai at letterboxes.org Please note my updated email address . Kindly update your address books. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSJO29AAoJEHKU2n17CpvDSK4IALaLNb/tP3MjUE6EvQskn8EQ SLg2BuUY0dy2f+QfHQ2bBZLj3unuHHPHlugfK8wGbNpB80rGm0lpoyqxiU7H2JnN aSXGyAS435VemqohOr26ZN/5nsYdSkz87KnJNlZ8YagPd+RaDZd/dc6BNM3er7va DioJnm+txAqIenv3xGeYNQfs7U7QljKcdrzqPjJuQp65ZmSUbcfmPls1I7B6Oxxe 1Xj+ax/N3wJeNKkWZKsvOJsHgQNMjNhTICfH8Ofsv0c04mlXI/Ej3+yIzQ/2tZwc k9jQrlX/Wgv+Mza41RPCtJTJGkbfFVTCOiQQjvwA4ZnriuwmTAcH2axELbSr1aU= =E2cM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From anandology at gmail.com Tue Sep 3 02:57:25 2013 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 06:27:25 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] How to run a block of code just before the interpreter is being exited like END{} in perl ?? In-Reply-To: <5224EDBD.1030000@letterboxes.org> References: <5224EDBD.1030000@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: > This is another version of this by mucking around directly > with sys.exitfunc using a with context. > > from contextlib import contextmanager > > @contextmanager > def end_of_days(): > def wrapper(): > print 'Goodbye.' > yield wrapper > > with end_of_days() as sys.exitfunc: > print 3+4 > How is this different from: import sys def goodbye(): print "Goodbye" sys.exitfunc = goodbye I don't think we are really doing anything with the context in your example except initializing sys.exitfunc. Anand From anandpillai at letterboxes.org Tue Sep 3 05:17:19 2013 From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai) Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 08:47:19 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] How to run a block of code just before the interpreter is being exited like END{} in perl ?? In-Reply-To: References: <5224EDBD.1030000@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: <522554BF.7020100@letterboxes.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 03 September 2013 06:27 AM, Anand Chitipothu wrote: >> This is another version of this by mucking around directly with >> sys.exitfunc using a with context. >> >> from contextlib import contextmanager >> >> @contextmanager def end_of_days(): def wrapper(): print >> 'Goodbye.' yield wrapper >> >> with end_of_days() as sys.exitfunc: print 3+4 >> > > How is this different from: > > import sys def goodbye(): print "Goodbye" > > sys.exitfunc = goodbye > > I don't think we are really doing anything with the context in your > example except initializing sys.exitfunc. Well, nothing really except maybe, @contextmanager def end_of_days(): before_context() def wrapper(): print 'Goodbye.' yield wrapper print after_context() with end_of_days() as sys.exitfunc: print 3+4 Just provides a context manager as well to do things before entering context and after exiting (just before sys.exit in this case), in a modular way. > > Anand _______________________________________________ BangPypers > mailing list BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > - -- Regards, - --Anand - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Software Architect/Consultant anandpillai at letterboxes.org Please note my updated email address . Kindly update your address books. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSJVS7AAoJEHKU2n17CpvDbdsIAJD8T8AJp49jmE5l/tEpUCKu k5U0e3cTcy7rAevxhE40lFjvmTAENw6K85Eh1hTbVt0uRQDhdDs7Lv47WuVHEppH 28WlGkufwMHc5fIPb1XVbL7UbzPcqZd/6tUTXN+AAYZYtx2OB1rRiG6REhiFyY+Z +8hPwMWcs6n3oV8hCJbdFITaRM9pm4RozBolFVe+r5LWBp1IO56fSt0IFDS9gceI 5NhLI9JZReoqYEfK8cPtNBjM9y1tLGJ8AZP60E0n3WGgVZMFK0Mw1xloefIZvaBC xa5l81BVq+zov50WkXTQ/FVCGQpJM7l9A9XRfTznC5nnx2QVbitOPgFNNZpIYQc= =V14p -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Tue Sep 3 08:24:59 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 11:54:59 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] How to run a block of code just before the interpreter is being exited like END{} in perl ?? In-Reply-To: (babmis@outlook.com's message of "Mon, 2 Sep 2013 20:00:05 +0530") References: Message-ID: <8761uicthg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> babmis writes: [...] Really. Please use the body of the email for the message and the subject line for the subject. -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From anandology at gmail.com Tue Sep 3 13:31:18 2013 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 17:01:18 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [Commercial] Python Training Course: September 26-28 Message-ID: Hi, I'm conducting a three day hands-on training course on Python programming on September 26, 27 and 28 (Thursday, Friday & Saturday). The course notes is freely available online at http://anandology.com/python-practice-book/. For more information about the course and registration, please visit the course page at: http://pythontraining-sept2013.doattend.com/ Please contact me offline if you have any questions. Thanks, Anand http://anandology.com/ From srp at ideadevice.com Fri Sep 6 08:04:52 2013 From: srp at ideadevice.com (Saju Pillai) Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 11:34:52 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [JOB] Backend engineering at Idea Device Message-ID: Idea Device (www.ideadevice.com) (ID) is a young company - we develop a product for Datacenter ops automation. Our software powers DC ops at top stock exchanges, very large banks and MNCs around the globe. ID is backed by a large valley VC & has offices in Singapore & India. Our backend engineering work is mostly in Python (with some C & C#) . The backend engineering involves what has traditionally being described as "systems work" - we implement protocol clients/servers, work with message queues, code massively parallel systems, write async network code, develop graph walkers, worry about database performance & tackle cloud-scale problems - all in Python. We are hiring for Principal/Senior & Member of Technical Staff level positions. We are eager to talk to experienced folks who have: * Done "systems" work / worked at the POSIX layer * Shipped production code on Unix/Linux- preferably Python code Prior experience contributing to opensource projects is a big plus. Ability to show us some of your public domain code is a plus We are big believers of work life balance and encourage active interests outside of work. Other benefits include Stock Options, Full time Chef, Free Books, Nerf Guns, Flat Org, Macbooks, Gully Cricket & 'Spirits' to fortify your spirit. Do email us at careers at ideadevice.com. regards srp --- Idea Device Automation Technologies www.ideadevice.com +91 9945196516 From svaksha at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 18:19:31 2013 From: svaksha at gmail.com (svaksha) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 16:19:31 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py Message-ID: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py, comes off as trying too hard to be cute. #EpicFail. svaksha ? ?????? From vinayakh at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 18:31:48 2013 From: vinayakh at gmail.com (Vinayak Hegde) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 22:01:48 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Svaksha, This can be fixed by sending a mail to the author and in this case, forking, modifying and asking for a pull request. Why is there a necessity to name and shame ? I did not find anything derogatory in the code (that I checked). I would normally have responded to this offlist but I see this as trolling[1]. -- Vinayak 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29 On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:49 PM, svaksha wrote: > https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py, comes off as trying too > hard to be cute. #EpicFail. > > svaksha ? ?????? > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From a.koppad at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 18:31:49 2013 From: a.koppad at gmail.com (Annapoornima Koppad) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 22:01:49 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All, Seriously, I thought people were busy not having time after the conference. I would love to see who wants to add more commits to this particular repository. Come on guys, I thought you had better jobs to do than try (very) hard to make fun of others. If there are such jobless people, I have lots of work that I could share with you. Please let me know. @Svaksha, thank you for pointing it out. I see Anand Pillai's commit already there. Need I say more to this (un)gentlemanly attitude! One word to all ladies working with this guy, beware! Warm regards, Annapoornima Pyladies Bangalore On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:49 PM, svaksha wrote: > https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py, comes off as trying too > hard to be cute. #EpicFail. > > svaksha ? ?????? > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From adivandhya at yahoo.co.in Sat Sep 7 18:29:38 2013 From: adivandhya at yahoo.co.in (Adivandhya) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 00:29:38 +0800 (SGT) Subject: [BangPypers] back button issues with session handling in flask Message-ID: <1378571378.9433.YahooMailNeo@web193303.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Hello guys, ??? Im making my own login module in flask, and Im now facing this problem pertaining to browser caching. ?? Aftera user signout (by setting the session["logged_in"] =False or even doing session.clear() ) ,if i press the back button on the browser, i still can see my homepage(which is suppose to be seen only when logged in). There are a few constraints while dealing with this problem, first being i do not want to totally disablebrowser caching as i believe it is important for efficiency of the website , and second being i cannot use other extensions like flask-login etc, as im trying to make it on my own. How do i resolve this problem within the constraints ? From vinayakh at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 18:42:13 2013 From: vinayakh at gmail.com (Vinayak Hegde) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 22:12:13 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On second thoughts maybe this was the objectionable part def get_purpose(): """ Return the purpose """ raise AmbiguousMissionError, "Mission unclear" Also the URL http://ladiespy.com does not resolve. Also there are python programmers(gender-neutral term) on this list. Maybe if there are any issues with attitude, you are better off talking on this list and educating people than having a separate mailing list as it divides the community (which I assume was the intent of the author). Intent and tone do not travel well over the Internet. -- Vinayak On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 10:01 PM, Vinayak Hegde wrote: > Hi Svaksha, > > This can be fixed by sending a mail to the author and in this case, forking, modifying and asking for a pull request. > > Why is there a necessity to name and shame ? I did not find anything derogatory in the code (that I checked). > > I would normally have responded to this offlist but I see this as trolling[1]. > > -- Vinayak > 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29 > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:49 PM, svaksha wrote: > >> https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py, comes off as trying too >> >> hard to be cute. #EpicFail. >> >> >> svaksha ? ?????? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> > > From a.koppad at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 18:56:51 2013 From: a.koppad at gmail.com (Annapoornima Koppad) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 22:26:51 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: More, I had a good mind to email this particular detail to every women mailing list that I am aware of. But then, it would portray all Bangalore men in bad light. Which is not my intention. More over, I am in touch with the PSF board itself, I had a good mind to send your repository link to the PSF board itself. @Anand Pillai, I am aware that you are on this list. There was not one single email from you asking me about the intentions of Pyladies Bangalore. You give me more reasons to never learn from guys like you. Either you explain here on public and tell everyone what was the intentions behind this, whom exactly where you targeting, or apologize for your behavior, irrespective of your intentions,I will let it go. Else its your choice, you choose. @Vinayak, every woman on this emailing list needs to be aware of the cheekiness of other men (and women) who try to put you down. This will be a learning phase for them too. I dont think this counts as trolling. Please read thoroughly before emailing. Thanks and regards, Annapoornima Pyladies Bangalore On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 10:12 PM, Vinayak Hegde wrote: > On second thoughts maybe this was the objectionable part > > def get_purpose(): > """ Return the purpose """ > raise AmbiguousMissionError, "Mission unclear" > > Also the URL http://ladiespy.com does not resolve. > > Also there are python programmers(gender-neutral term) on this list. > Maybe if there are > any issues with attitude, you are better off talking on this list and > educating people > than having a separate mailing list as it divides the community (which > I assume was > the intent of the author). Intent and tone do not travel well over the > Internet. > > -- Vinayak > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 10:01 PM, Vinayak Hegde wrote: > > > Hi Svaksha, > > > > This can be fixed by sending a mail to the author and in this case, > forking, modifying and asking for a pull request. > > > > Why is there a necessity to name and shame ? I did not find anything > derogatory in the code (that I checked). > > > > I would normally have responded to this offlist but I see this as > trolling[1]. > > > > -- Vinayak > > 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29 > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:49 PM, svaksha wrote: > > > >> https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py, comes off as trying too > >> > >> hard to be cute. #EpicFail. > >> > >> > >> svaksha ? ?????? > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> BangPypers mailing list > >> BangPypers at python.org > >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From svaksha at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 19:07:12 2013 From: svaksha at gmail.com (svaksha) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 17:07:12 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Vinayak Hegde wrote: > Hi Svaksha, > > This can be fixed by sending a mail to the author and in this case, > forking, modifying and asking for a pull request. > > Why is there a necessity to name and shame ? Is'nt Anand Pillai a PSF member? This is hardly what one expects from a PSF member. > I did not find anything > derogatory in the code (that I checked). From, https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py/blob/master/__init__.py def get_purpose(): """ Return the purpose """ raise AmbiguousMissionError, "Mission unclear" > I would normally have responded to this offlist but I see this as > trolling[1]. Oh, thanks Vinayak, but would you care to explain how I am trolling when the above is clearly breaking the CoC: http://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ , by making fun of Anu's efforts publicly. Hardly "Open" or "Considerate" and definitely not "Respectful". If Anand can create a public repo on github to poke fun of another Python community member, why would you object to me raising it in the same public forum that we are all an equal part of? Are there different standards now? svaksha ? ?????? From vinayakh at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 19:23:15 2013 From: vinayakh at gmail.com (Vinayak Hegde) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 22:53:15 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Annapoornima Koppad wrote: > More, I had a good mind to email this particular detail to every women > mailing list that I am aware of. But then, it would portray all Bangalore > men in bad light. Which is not my intention. More over, I am in touch with > the PSF board itself, I had a good mind to send your repository link to the > PSF board itself. > Why does this portray _ALL_ Bangalore men in bad light ? Who are these "Bangalore men". My remarks are not snide but you might want to go easy on the generalizations. My earlier remarks stand - it is better to educate and rather than name and shame. Also svaksha's mail did not mention what she found objectionable. I still think we can have a more mature and constructive discussion on this. @Vinayak, every woman on this emailing list needs to be aware of the > cheekiness of other men (and women) who try to put you down. This will be a > learning phase for them too. > > I dont think this counts as trolling. Please read thoroughly before > emailing. I am not defending Anand here (I hardly know him well) but it might be better to talk to him personally rather than name and shame IMHO. As far as trolling is concerned, it is a matter of perspective (See the reference at the end of my last mail - I think the mail qualifies as trolling especially due to the lack of information and use of words like #EpicFail). I can also say that Anand was also trolling by posting the code. -- Vinayak From svaksha at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 19:26:25 2013 From: svaksha at gmail.com (svaksha) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 17:26:25 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Vinayak Hegde wrote: > On second thoughts maybe this was the objectionable part > > def get_purpose(): > """ Return the purpose """ > raise AmbiguousMissionError, "Mission unclear" > > Also the URL http://ladiespy.com does not resolve. Ah, maybe you would like to follow up on your own suggestion and submit a Bug report :) !? > Also there are python programmers(gender-neutral term) on this list. > Maybe if there are > any issues with attitude, you are better off talking on this list and > educating people Umm... its not a woman's job to educate men (or anyone else for that matter) on basic manners. And this isnt his first attempt at humor either: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/bangpypers/2013-July/009125.html If one has a public sense of humor, one should be prepared for being called out publicly too. You cant expect to behave badly in public and then be educated in private. #NotMyJob. > than having a separate mailing list as it divides the community (which > I assume was > the intent of the author). Intent and tone do not travel well over the Internet. They dont and if he had a problem with the group he could have raised it on the PyLadies-BLR mailing list to which he is subscribed to. He never did. Infact, IIRC, he joined the mailing list on 02Sept**, the same day he commits to the ladies.py repo on Github. ** (Disclaimer: I'm one of the list admins and I cross-checked this now.) svaksha ? ?????? From steve at lonetwin.net Sat Sep 7 19:35:34 2013 From: steve at lonetwin.net (steve) Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2013 01:35:34 +0800 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <522B63E6.7070003@lonetwin.net> Hi, On Sunday 08 September 2013 01:26 AM, svaksha wrote: > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Vinayak Hegde wrote: >> On second thoughts maybe this was the objectionable part >> >> def get_purpose(): >> """ Return the purpose """ >> raise AmbiguousMissionError, "Mission unclear" >> >> Also the URL http://ladiespy.com does not resolve. > > Ah, maybe you would like to follow up on your own suggestion and > submit a Bug report :) !? > > >> Also there are python programmers(gender-neutral term) on this list. >> Maybe if there are >> any issues with attitude, you are better off talking on this list and >> educating people > > Umm... its not a woman's job to educate men (or anyone else for that > matter) on basic manners. And this isnt his first attempt at humor > either: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/bangpypers/2013-July/009125.html > aaah ! I only just got the joke (in light of the isnt_that_odd function)[1] ! I am seeing a pattern here. Interesting. I get a feeling that Anand wasn't even trying to be funny. sarcastic is possibly a better word I guess -- but I don't know enough to be sure. cheers, - steve [1] guess I'm better at reading code than understanding subtle humor. Good one Anand ! From steve at lonetwin.net Sat Sep 7 19:14:52 2013 From: steve at lonetwin.net (steve) Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2013 01:14:52 +0800 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <522B5F0C.5070101@lonetwin.net> Hi, On Sunday 08 September 2013 01:07 AM, svaksha wrote: > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Vinayak Hegde wrote: >> Hi Svaksha, >> >> This can be fixed by sending a mail to the author and in this case, >> forking, modifying and asking for a pull request. >> >> Why is there a necessity to name and shame ? > > Is'nt Anand Pillai a PSF member? This is hardly what one expects from > a PSF member. > > >> I did not find anything >> derogatory in the code (that I checked). > > From, https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py/blob/master/__init__.py > > def get_purpose(): > """ Return the purpose """ > raise AmbiguousMissionError, "Mission unclear" > > FWIW, I'm more intrigued by the isnt_that_odd() function. Maybe the intent is not merely being cheeky, there's something deeper that Anand felt strongly enough to create this repo ? Should we perhaps discuss that publicly too ? cheers, - steve From svaksha at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 19:38:39 2013 From: svaksha at gmail.com (svaksha) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 17:38:39 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Vinayak Hegde wrote: > > Also svaksha's mail did not mention what she > found objectionable. Vinayak, did you miss this email? https://mail.python.org/pipermail/bangpypers/2013-September/009359.html My replies are as inline text as I dislike top-posts and try to avoid that as much as possible. Do scroll down to the part wher I have provided a github link and also took the trouble of pasting the code for your convenience. > I am not defending Anand here (I hardly know him well) but it might be Contrary to your denial, your email admonishing me for raising it on this list and calling me a troll (and then trying to educate Anu on its definition) does come across as "defending Anand" even if you claim not to know him well. > better to talk to him personally rather than name and shame IMHO. As far as Err.. Why do you think it is my job (or anyone else's) to email him personally? As I mentioned earlier, if you behave poorly in public, dont expect private education. #NotMyJob. > trolling is concerned, it is a matter of perspective (See the reference at > the end of my last mail - I think the mail qualifies as trolling especially > due to the lack of information and use of words like #EpicFail). > I can also > say that Anand was also trolling by posting the code. Vinayak, you "can", but you didnt. Big difference that. svaksha ? ?????? From sriramnrn at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 19:50:50 2013 From: sriramnrn at gmail.com (Sriram Narayanan) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 23:20:50 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've sent a few emails to Svaksha - first asking what exactly was not right, and then followed up stating that I didn't see the source code itself. I don't know what Anand had in mind writing such code. Knowing him and his strong sense of sarcastic humor, I'd like to reserve judgement on his actions until he explains himself. I know that he does care about educating folks about Python and helping evangelize it. -- Ram On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:49 PM, svaksha wrote: > https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py, comes off as trying too > hard to be cute. #EpicFail. > > svaksha ? ?????? > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- ------------------------------------ Belenix: www.belenix.org Twitter: @sriramnrn From senthil at uthcode.com Sat Sep 7 19:31:09 2013 From: senthil at uthcode.com (Senthil Kumaran) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 10:31:09 -0700 Subject: [BangPypers] back button issues with session handling in flask In-Reply-To: <1378571378.9433.YahooMailNeo@web193303.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> References: <1378571378.9433.YahooMailNeo@web193303.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Adivandya, On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Adivandhya wrote: > and second being i cannot use other extensions like flask-login etc, as im > trying to make it on my own. > How do i resolve this problem within the constraints ? > If you poke into flask-login, how does it handle that? Personally, I do now know the a web app we keep any track of browser states. The idea could be use of URLs and working with the session object based on the URL you are at in terms of webapp. -- Senthil From vinayakh at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 20:00:55 2013 From: vinayakh at gmail.com (Vinayak Hegde) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 23:30:55 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 11:08 PM, svaksha wrote: > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Vinayak Hegde wrote: > > > > Also svaksha's mail did not mention what she > > found objectionable. > > Vinayak, did you miss this email? > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/bangpypers/2013-September/009359.html > My replies are as inline text as I dislike top-posts and try to avoid > that as much as possible. Do scroll down to the part wher I have > provided a github link and also took the trouble of pasting the code > for your convenience. Nope. I was talking about the initial mail which lacked context. The initial mail did not have this excerpt. I posted the excerpt. I should have read the code completely. I didn't. Guilty as charged. And I fixed it in the next email. > > I am not defending Anand here (I hardly know him well) but it might be > > Contrary to your denial, your email admonishing me for raising it on > this list and calling me a troll (and then trying to educate Anu on > its definition) does come across as "defending Anand" even if you > claim not to know him well. > I think we are splitting hairs here. I don't know him and I am not taking sides and this is not a battle. I support more constructive methods of approaching these problems in the community. Thats it. YMMV. > > better to talk to him personally rather than name and shame IMHO. As far > as > > Err.. Why do you think it is my job (or anyone else's) to email him > personally? As I mentioned earlier, if you behave poorly in public, > dont expect private education. #NotMyJob. > You are entitled to your opinion and me to mine. But if people flame newbies / women / other under-represented groups unfairly (as you believe Anand did in this case), I believe there are better ways to tackle that IMHO. > trolling is concerned, it is a matter of perspective (See the reference at > > the end of my last mail - I think the mail qualifies as trolling > especially > > due to the lack of information and use of words like #EpicFail). > > I can also > > say that Anand was also trolling by posting the code. > > Vinayak, you "can", but you didnt. Big difference that. > I don't know what Anand's intentions were (and hence I reserve my opinion as mentioned in earlier mails), but your response (#epicfail) was pretty explicit. It would only be fair to hear out Anand as we have heard your response and not his. -- Vinayak From vinayakh at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 20:09:08 2013 From: vinayakh at gmail.com (Vinayak Hegde) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 23:39:08 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] back button issues with session handling in flask In-Reply-To: <1378571378.9433.YahooMailNeo@web193303.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> References: <1378571378.9433.YahooMailNeo@web193303.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:59 PM, Adivandhya wrote: > Hello guys, > Im making my own login module in flask, and Im now facing this problem > pertaining to browser caching. > Aftera user signout (by setting the session["logged_in"] =False or even > doing session.clear() ) ,if i press the back button on the browser, i still > can see my homepage(which is suppose to be seen only when logged in). There > are a few constraints while dealing with this problem, first being i do not > want to totally disablebrowser caching as i believe it is important for > efficiency of the website , > and second being i cannot use other extensions like flask-login etc, as im > trying to make it on my own. > How do i resolve this problem within the constraints ? > Sometimes I have seen that the browser caches the rendered page and does not refresh the page. For example I have seen this behavior in FF. I go to ESPNcricinfo and click on an article and read it and go back, the page rendered does not have the score refreshed. This same behavior is exhibited when you press CTRL+SHIFT+T to reopen closed tabs. The rendered page is loaded as well as the history of the tab. Do you see this behavior with Flask-login as well ? And what browser are you using to test ? I have seen some sites try to disable the back-button but that might not be an elegant way to do this. Another approach could be see if you can play with the HTTP Cache-control headers to see if they make a difference. -- Vinayak From anandpillai at letterboxes.org Sat Sep 7 20:20:03 2013 From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai) Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2013 23:50:03 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dear all, On Saturday 07 September 2013 11:20 PM, Sriram Narayanan wrote: > I've sent a few emails to Svaksha - first asking what exactly was > not right, and then followed up stating that I didn't see the > source code itself. > > I don't know what Anand had in mind writing such code. Knowing him > and his strong sense of sarcastic humor, I'd like to reserve > judgement on his actions until he explains himself. I know that he > does care about educating folks about Python and helping evangelize > it. +1. Btw, I founded and manage this list, but I see my "actions" deserve some explanation. As Sriram, said I do have a (somewhat extreme) sense of sarcastic and dry humour. I am also a PSF member from 2010 and also President of PSSI. I was going through the PyLadies initiative and I found what were a few interesting (intriguing) things about it. 1. Most FOSS/open source projects/initiatives have a .org (organization) TLD. Pyladies is a .com website. I find it curious. Maybe the OP of this thread who is an active member of PyLadies could explain it - just to educate all of us here and me in particlar. My "isnt_that_odd" function of ladies.py was specifically written to bring this point. Happy to see it hit the target. 2. Mission - It would be nice to educate us all in this list about the goals of a separate organization for "ladies coding" as apart from the general PSF umbrella. I am not misogynistic in anyway, but in general I don't personally agree with "woman coding" as a separate problem as opposed to "people coding". Btw, I am not a shady character though I stand indicted on being politically incorrect and I plead guilty as charged. The "project" was started (in a light way) to bring this into attention. Now that the conversation has started, let me bring shutters on it without releasing a 0.2. Anyway the unit tests were failing :) > > -- Ram > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:49 PM, svaksha wrote: > >> https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py, comes off as trying >> too hard to be cute. #EpicFail. >> >> svaksha ? ?????? _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> > > > - -- Regards, - --Anand - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Software Architect/Consultant anandpillai at letterboxes.org Please note my updated email address . Kindly update your address books. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSK25SAAoJEMTxYeOp9eaodekIAJHv+qSPNRNffOtP2y6G+FzR qkv1Mk1UdP1Zf6e7j9RNMpRdGFMB1IZk8GnvPccYXghDa6y8DlWKdBIc0vst09wJ +Wl2pyjn57oPHgbi4LTTaOB6cImecupEOScx8Z55b53gxwT5aWXW3pGQAmUQKGpl L2+K8aeW9p94sOLvcr7Utqog7paTh7jKlgfjBamk1sHQEa1aDQMWUlC9TsXwdd5d 81OYiy5k0feL/a8Q2RF6mzWKSXs028KYKZFjSvRYXOuctXvqKEL0VAlqbVfTapkr Q+xrUOFTQILxQJhwcsltlDodyANHTSzZGSrSTca5RhyExqAe407SLATuQqgI93c= =9KGn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From anandpillai at letterboxes.org Sat Sep 7 20:56:28 2013 From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai) Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2013 00:26:28 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <522B76DC.7030400@letterboxes.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, On Saturday 07 September 2013 10:26 PM, Annapoornima Koppad wrote: > More, I had a good mind to email this particular detail to every > women mailing list that I am aware of. But then, it would portray > all Bangalore men in bad light. Which is not my intention. More > over, I am in touch with the PSF board itself, I had a good mind to > send your repository link to the PSF board itself. Well, no need of it. > @Anand Pillai, I am aware that you are on this list. Yes - from day one. I started it. > There was not one single email from you asking me about the > intentions of Pyladies Bangalore. You give me more reasons to never > learn from guys like you. Either you explain here on public and > tell everyone what was the intentions behind this, whom exactly > where you targeting, or apologize for your behavior, irrespective > of your intentions,I will let it go. Else its your choice, you > choose. Yes I know. I could have sent an email asking about my doubts to PyLadies Bangalore but I have this wicked sense of doing things the round about way - in a tongue-in-cheek manner. Hence I set up the "project" to bring some attention to what I thought were points of interest, with some dollops of well meaning humor. Sorry if it offended you. The intention was nothing like that. I have all respect for your initiative and wish it well. > I dont think this counts as trolling. Please read thoroughly > before emailing. Not at all. Now that I have taken the "project" down, hope it is all well with you. I saw this thread very late - just before going to sleep and didn't want anyone else to further loose sleep over it - hence the explanation. If I had seen it earlier in the afternoon, I would have sent it much earlier. Wish you the very best. - -- Regards, - --Anand - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Software Architect/Consultant anandpillai at letterboxes.org Please note my updated email address . Kindly update your address books. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSK3bcAAoJEMTxYeOp9eao+gcH/3yMnwO0moww06Crr0eSDggu NqRc8ztNUCM8qQ9tyGSxMFkKvIxwBly4JHFNUbo84ZqhlDTa8EjevxbW6ppW+sqo VWdZaA0NWLRexC0ylMbIbPJh9kbPX+b1MDzPytU68dfBtHuxRKlJYffq+qeLOBxj Ml6fpmihfG9aXke6hDaJkJ2I+45msP7vvkeWpMpuiRdkVhzRLSX73jQTyYkY5W/Z +48fPxLixlImlbU6swZLSiy+4GNTnVmlSrunYIcaHeN3eO8qjr5wzARpuVAeBS/n D20YQuItkEQQNGITTx0aISlx7MCaKGgHDPEEt6C0BC4xl4lYeL8EKyEbkzW/S3g= =Y6+F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From a.koppad at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 20:59:16 2013 From: a.koppad at gmail.com (Annapoornima Koppad) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 00:29:16 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: Hi Anand, Please find my answers inline. On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 11:50 PM, Anand B Pillai wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Dear all, > > On Saturday 07 September 2013 11:20 PM, Sriram Narayanan wrote: > > I've sent a few emails to Svaksha - first asking what exactly was > > not right, and then followed up stating that I didn't see the > > source code itself. > > > > I don't know what Anand had in mind writing such code. Knowing him > > and his strong sense of sarcastic humor, I'd like to reserve > > judgement on his actions until he explains himself. I know that he > > does care about educating folks about Python and helping evangelize > > it. > > +1. Btw, I founded and manage this list, but I see my "actions" > deserve some explanation. As Sriram, said I do have a (somewhat > extreme) sense of sarcastic and dry humour. I am also a PSF member > from 2010 and also President of PSSI. > I find it ironic that a person of such high caliber should create a public repo to make fun of others initiative. Not only your actions deserve an explanation, you ought to be sorry for making fun of others efforts. > > I was going through the PyLadies initiative and I found what > were a few interesting (intriguing) things about it. > > 1. Most FOSS/open source projects/initiatives have a .org > (organization) TLD. Pyladies is a .com website. I find it > curious. Maybe the OP of this thread who is an active member > of PyLadies could explain it - just to educate all of us here > and me in particlar. > > Since you are on the Pyladies blr list also, were there any legitimate questions raised regarding the intentions, goals of Pyladies Bangalore. Any email, any kind of communication to find out from your side, none? Please do not assume things without asking questions. If you had asked me over an email, I would have told you. Why create a separate repo, write code that is demotivating my well informed intentions? Since you are asking the questions now, I will try to be patient and answer them. But you need to apologize. I created the website using Godaddy's website builder. I have been trying to get other women to try and write website code using Python and Django frameworks. I have coded some of the blog code and am yet to set it up on godaddy domain. I spent money from my pocket to get other people to understand that I am serious about getting other women to code. One of my first ideas was to write Pyhton/Django code for the blog, make it a hacknight or a platform to gather women and start coding on it. Any reasons other than that, none! > My "isnt_that_odd" function of ladies.py was specifically written > to bring this point. Happy to see it hit the target So you do agree that your intention was to make fun of Pyladies Bangalore. I demand that you apologize for that. > > 2. Mission - It would be nice to educate us all in this list > about the goals of a separate organization for "ladies coding" > as apart from the general PSF umbrella. I am not misogynistic > in anyway, but in general I don't personally agree with > "woman coding" as a separate problem as opposed to "people > coding". > > Like I told you before, my intention was not to create a separate organization, I did ask questions regarding participation of women? Please read your answers for that. > Btw, I am not a shady character though I stand indicted on > being politically incorrect and I plead guilty as charged. > > No you are not shady, you just created a public repo to make fun of my efforts. I will stand for any woman who wants to learn to code, get back to Python jobs, etc. You made fun of all those women who are currently wanting to learn Python, and get back to jobs. There are efforts all over the world to increase participation of women in technology. By making fun of my effort, you are mocking all of those. The "project" was started (in a light way) to bring this into > attention. Now that the conversation has started, let me bring > shutters on it without releasing a 0.2. > > Anyway the unit tests were failing :) > Light or not light, being a responsible member of PSF, you need to honor and/or uphold the code of conduct. I am politely requesting you to apologize. > > > > > -- Ram > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:49 PM, svaksha wrote: > > > >> https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py, comes off as trying > >> too hard to be cute. #EpicFail. > >> > >> svaksha ? ?????? _______________________________________________ > >> BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org > >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > >> > > > > > > > > > - -- > Regards, > > - --Anand > > - > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Software Architect/Consultant > anandpillai at letterboxes.org > > Please note my updated email address . > Kindly update your address books. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSK25SAAoJEMTxYeOp9eaodekIAJHv+qSPNRNffOtP2y6G+FzR > qkv1Mk1UdP1Zf6e7j9RNMpRdGFMB1IZk8GnvPccYXghDa6y8DlWKdBIc0vst09wJ > +Wl2pyjn57oPHgbi4LTTaOB6cImecupEOScx8Z55b53gxwT5aWXW3pGQAmUQKGpl > L2+K8aeW9p94sOLvcr7Utqog7paTh7jKlgfjBamk1sHQEa1aDQMWUlC9TsXwdd5d > 81OYiy5k0feL/a8Q2RF6mzWKSXs028KYKZFjSvRYXOuctXvqKEL0VAlqbVfTapkr > Q+xrUOFTQILxQJhwcsltlDodyANHTSzZGSrSTca5RhyExqAe407SLATuQqgI93c= > =9KGn > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > Thanks and regards, Annapoornima Koppad From a.koppad at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 21:01:29 2013 From: a.koppad at gmail.com (Annapoornima Koppad) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 00:31:29 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: <522B76DC.7030400@letterboxes.org> References: <522B76DC.7030400@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: @Anand, I read this email after I typed the other response and sent it. Apologies accepted. Yes, it did offend me. Now since you are asking sorry, I will let it go. Thanks and regards, Annapoornima On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 12:26 AM, Anand B Pillai wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, > > On Saturday 07 September 2013 10:26 PM, Annapoornima Koppad wrote: > > More, I had a good mind to email this particular detail to every > > women mailing list that I am aware of. But then, it would portray > > all Bangalore men in bad light. Which is not my intention. More > > over, I am in touch with the PSF board itself, I had a good mind to > > send your repository link to the PSF board itself. > > Well, no need of it. > > > @Anand Pillai, I am aware that you are on this list. > Yes - from day one. I started it. > > > There was not one single email from you asking me about the > > intentions of Pyladies Bangalore. You give me more reasons to never > > learn from guys like you. Either you explain here on public and > > tell everyone what was the intentions behind this, whom exactly > > where you targeting, or apologize for your behavior, irrespective > > of your intentions,I will let it go. Else its your choice, you > > choose. > > Yes I know. I could have sent an email asking about my doubts to > PyLadies Bangalore but I have this wicked sense of doing things > the round about way - in a tongue-in-cheek manner. Hence I set up the > "project" to bring some attention to what I thought were points of > interest, with some dollops of well meaning humor. > > Sorry if it offended you. The intention was nothing like that. > I have all respect for your initiative and wish it well. > > > I dont think this counts as trolling. Please read thoroughly > > before emailing. > > Not at all. Now that I have taken the "project" down, hope it is > all well with you. > > I saw this thread very late - just before going to sleep and didn't > want anyone else to further loose sleep over it - hence the explanation. > If I had seen it earlier in the afternoon, I would have sent it > much earlier. > > > Wish you the very best. > > > > > - -- > Regards, > > - --Anand > > - > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Software Architect/Consultant > anandpillai at letterboxes.org > > Please note my updated email address . > Kindly update your address books. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSK3bcAAoJEMTxYeOp9eao+gcH/3yMnwO0moww06Crr0eSDggu > NqRc8ztNUCM8qQ9tyGSxMFkKvIxwBly4JHFNUbo84ZqhlDTa8EjevxbW6ppW+sqo > VWdZaA0NWLRexC0ylMbIbPJh9kbPX+b1MDzPytU68dfBtHuxRKlJYffq+qeLOBxj > Ml6fpmihfG9aXke6hDaJkJ2I+45msP7vvkeWpMpuiRdkVhzRLSX73jQTyYkY5W/Z > +48fPxLixlImlbU6swZLSiy+4GNTnVmlSrunYIcaHeN3eO8qjr5wzARpuVAeBS/n > D20YQuItkEQQNGITTx0aISlx7MCaKGgHDPEEt6C0BC4xl4lYeL8EKyEbkzW/S3g= > =Y6+F > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From pratham.gadre at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 21:41:58 2013 From: pratham.gadre at gmail.com (Pratham Gadre) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 19:41:58 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 07, 2013 at 11:50:03PM +0530, Anand B Pillai wrote: > Dear all, > > +1. Btw, I founded and manage this list, but I see my "actions" > deserve some explanation. As Sriram, said I do have a (somewhat > extreme) sense of sarcastic and dry humour. I am also a PSF member > from 2010 and also President of PSSI. The first thing, I was taught in Linux, when using the 'su' command, "with power comes great responsibility." Looks he forgot that important lesson. Forgive the poor sod. He does not realise, how is justification has harmed him & his 'repustation' more than that 'intelligent' piece of code. To err is human, to forgive is divine, they say. BTW, Anand is it PSSI or IPSS? (typo, I think) Cheers Pratham From svaksha at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 21:57:27 2013 From: svaksha at gmail.com (svaksha) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 19:57:27 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Am reading all the responses, including Anand's apology, so I'll reply to those later. One at a time. And since you responded to my email, here goes: On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Vinayak Hegde wrote: > > > Nope. I was talking about the initial mail which lacked context. There you go again. See below. > I think we are splitting hairs here. I don't know him and I am not taking > sides and this is not a battle. I support more constructive methods of > approaching these problems in the community. Thats it. YMMV. Are we ? Lets see, its ok for you to split hairs and call me a troll but I cant respond? and when I do you choose to label that as "splitting hairs"? I find your responses a lot more patronizing and I'm happy to explain if you care to listen. The whole "telling women" what to do, how to handle things (despite her saying she does not like private conversation on social issues that ought to be public). There are plenty of sexist incidents in Foss and its not my job to go in private to educate anyone. > You are entitled to your opinion and me to mine. Thanks. However, your repeated emails on this thread came across as stuffing your opinions down my throat. I dont appreciate that and find it annoying as I dislike having private conversations on bad behaviour, unless you are a person I trust and respect - Yes, I've had many private conversations with hackers I've never met, just interacted online. This is just not one of those. > But if people flame > newbies / women / other under-represented groups unfairly (as you believe > Anand did in this case), I believe there are better ways to tackle that > IMHO. ...and thusfar, your suggestion has been along the lines of "go solve this problem in private". I've been around the FOSS block far too long to know it does not work. Never has. So, I'm curious to know why you expect women in Foss to solve social problems in Foss communities in private? Unrelated to this thread, do you realise that it can easily become a "he said-she said" issue which does not help at all. Been there, done that; and blogged about it too: http://svaksha.com/category/WOMEN/SexismInSTEM > I don't know what Anand's intentions were (and hence I reserve my opinion > as mentioned in earlier mails), but your response (#epicfail) was pretty > explicit. Vinayak, there you go, _yet_ again - you choose to reserve your opinions on his intent, but cannot stop harping or splitting hairs over my #EpicFail hashtag, or my first mail that "lacked context", "was pretty explicit" (which contradicts your "lacked context" claim). Do you want me to explain more or do you not honestly see the different (read, unequal) standards here? A pertinent read on tone policing: http://geekfeminism.org/2013/09/05/tone-policing-a-tool-for-protecting-male-power/ Btw, Vinayak, you are not alone as Sriram also wrote to me offlist - he has said so on the list too, but forgot to mention the full contents, and I paraphrase - ... that I'm trying to "publicly shame Anand Pillai", then questioned me about what I hope to achieve, and ofcourse the same old "you should talk to him in private". Having heard all this in this thread, I didnt bother to reply. > It would only be fair to hear out Anand as we have heard your > response and not his. Anand's email came as I was writing this response, so I'll reply separately. svaksha ? ?????? From svaksha at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 22:14:04 2013 From: svaksha at gmail.com (svaksha) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 20:14:04 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Anand B Pillai wrote: > +1. Btw, I founded and manage this list, but I see my "actions" > deserve some explanation. As Sriram, said I do have a (somewhat > extreme) sense of sarcastic and dry humour. I am also a PSF member > from 2010 and also President of PSSI. So? If anything, you should be held to higher standards as a PSF member and PSSI president. > curious. Maybe the OP of this thread who is an active member I may be the OP but I am not the founder, rather just a member who setup the mailman list as I disliked the meetup.com communication tool and dislike googlegroups even more. > of PyLadies could explain it - just to educate all of us here > and me in particlar. I hope Anu's email was explanation enough. > My "isnt_that_odd" function of ladies.py was specifically written > to bring this point. Happy to see it hit the target. Anand, now you just come across as self-entitled and arrogant. The "if apology" not withstanding. > 2. Mission - It would be nice to educate us all in this list > about the goals of a separate organization for "ladies coding" > as apart from the general PSF umbrella. I am not misogynistic You have been a PSF member since 2010, so did you question the PSF when they gave a $10,000 grant to the Pyladies.com org? I'm curious because you want to know about the motives of a chapter. > in anyway, but in general I don't personally agree with > "woman coding" as a separate problem as opposed to "people > coding". I hope you raised these objections on the PSF mailing list too. -svaksha From svaksha at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 22:16:18 2013 From: svaksha at gmail.com (svaksha) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 20:16:18 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: <522B76DC.7030400@letterboxes.org> References: <522B76DC.7030400@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Anand B Pillai wrote: > On Saturday 07 September 2013 10:26 PM, Annapoornima Koppad wrote: >> More, I had a good mind to email this particular detail to every >> women mailing list that I am aware of. But then, it would portray >> all Bangalore men in bad light. Which is not my intention. More >> over, I am in touch with the PSF board itself, I had a good mind to >> send your repository link to the PSF board itself. > > Well, no need of it. He has deleted the github repo, and now I know why. > Yes I know. I could have sent an email asking about my doubts to > PyLadies Bangalore but I have this wicked sense of doing things > the round about way - in a tongue-in-cheek manner. Hence I set up the > "project" to bring some attention to what I thought were points of > interest, with some dollops of well meaning humor. Really? Let me politely call you out on this claim. 1. Your earlier July post referring to the twitter logo as an "egg" (for the clueless, the egg is an ancient fertility symbol) does not seem like humor. 2. The class "class AmbiguousMissionError(Exception):" and method (def get_purpose(): "raise AmbiguousMissionError, "Mission unclear") are not humor either. Both smack of sexism because you never bothered to ask Anu, nor participated in the emails on the pyladies-blr list, where we were discussing about holding meetups (both hangouts and in-person meets) and I didnt see any response from you regarding holding a talk or workshop or sprint. IIRC, Anu had earlier emailed this list asking for data (re, female participation in the monthly meetups) and iirc, you told her to conduct a poll. Is being dismissive yet another attempt at humor? ...and I am beginning to wonder why? If anything Anu is getting a lot of support from upstream, the PSF approved her grant request, etc.. and you being a PSF member should know better than ascribe it to your sense of humor because there is nothing funny about the above. > Sorry if it offended you. _"if"_? This is the classic "non-apology" apology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-apology_apology (scroll down to the "if apology"). svaksha ? ?????? From senthil at uthcode.com Sat Sep 7 19:27:46 2013 From: senthil at uthcode.com (Senthil Kumaran) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 10:27:46 -0700 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Annapoornima, I can understand your stance, but I think, this email is bit strongly worded and could hurt the readers. And as a helpful note, I think, leadership on your effort could be built more in friendly cooperative way than by intimidation. Personally, I care more about python, language, learning and than others. First three guarantee me to be neutral on any topic. I hope, others in this list have that in that order too. So, sorry, I am bowing out of this discussion and I hope others would too. Thank you, Senthil On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Annapoornima Koppad wrote: > More, I had a good mind to email this particular detail to every women > mailing list that I am aware of. But then, it would portray all Bangalore > men in bad light. Which is not my intention. More over, I am in touch with > the PSF board itself, I had a good mind to send your repository link to the > PSF board itself. > > @Anand Pillai, I am aware that you are on this list. There was not one > single email from you asking me about the intentions of Pyladies Bangalore. > You give me more reasons to never learn from guys like you. Either you > explain here on public and tell everyone what was the intentions behind > this, whom exactly where you targeting, or apologize for your behavior, > irrespective of your intentions,I will let it go. Else its your choice, you > choose. > > @Vinayak, every woman on this emailing list needs to be aware of the > cheekiness of other men (and women) who try to put you down. This will be a > learning phase for them too. > > I dont think this counts as trolling. Please read thoroughly before > emailing. > > Thanks and regards, > Annapoornima > Pyladies Bangalore > > > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 10:12 PM, Vinayak Hegde wrote: > > > On second thoughts maybe this was the objectionable part > > > > def get_purpose(): > > """ Return the purpose """ > > raise AmbiguousMissionError, "Mission unclear" > > > > Also the URL http://ladiespy.com does not resolve. > > > > Also there are python programmers(gender-neutral term) on this list. > > Maybe if there are > > any issues with attitude, you are better off talking on this list and > > educating people > > than having a separate mailing list as it divides the community (which > > I assume was > > the intent of the author). Intent and tone do not travel well over the > > Internet. > > > > -- Vinayak > > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 10:01 PM, Vinayak Hegde > wrote: > > > > > Hi Svaksha, > > > > > > This can be fixed by sending a mail to the author and in this case, > > forking, modifying and asking for a pull request. > > > > > > Why is there a necessity to name and shame ? I did not find anything > > derogatory in the code (that I checked). > > > > > > I would normally have responded to this offlist but I see this as > > trolling[1]. > > > > > > -- Vinayak > > > 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29 > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:49 PM, svaksha wrote: > > > > > >> https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py, comes off as trying too > > >> > > >> hard to be cute. #EpicFail. > > >> > > >> > > >> svaksha ? ?????? > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> > > >> BangPypers mailing list > > >> BangPypers at python.org > > >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From jace at pobox.com Sat Sep 7 22:41:26 2013 From: jace at pobox.com (Kiran Jonnalagadda) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 02:11:26 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] back button issues with session handling in flask In-Reply-To: <1378571378.9433.YahooMailNeo@web193303.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> References: <1378571378.9433.YahooMailNeo@web193303.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CAED868C48A4B8299F358A46F3042F8@gmail.com> On Saturday, 7 September 2013 at 9:59 PM, Adivandhya wrote: > Hello guys, > Im making my own login module in flask, and Im now facing this problem pertaining to browser caching. > Aftera user signout (by setting the session["logged_in"] =False or even doing session.clear() ) ,if i press the back button on the browser, i still can see my homepage(which is suppose to be seen only when logged in). There are a few constraints while dealing with this problem, first being i do not want to totally disablebrowser caching as i believe it is important for efficiency of the website , > and second being i cannot use other extensions like flask-login etc, as im trying to make it on my own. > How do i resolve this problem within the constraints ? > > What are the risk factors in allowing the Back button to work? 1. The user cannot perform any restricted actions from this page since all subsequent requests to the server will be unauthenticated. 2. If the user closes the tab/window, navigation history is discarded, so there's no risk of user B with physical access being able to see a logged in page of user A. Unless you are building a banking website which is specifically designed to harass users, I wouldn't worry about this. You should, however, use HTTP status 303 instead of 301/302 to redirect the browser after POSTing a form. 301/302 is the primary reason for users accidentally submitting forms when they hit Back, since browsers consider 301/302 as a single page in navigation history, while 303 registers twice. Kiran From anandpillai at letterboxes.org Sat Sep 7 22:49:23 2013 From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai) Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2013 02:19:23 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, On Sunday 08 September 2013 01:44 AM, svaksha wrote: > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Anand B Pillai > wrote: >> +1. Btw, I founded and manage this list, but I see my "actions" >> deserve some explanation. As Sriram, said I do have a (somewhat >> extreme) sense of sarcastic and dry humour. I am also a PSF >> member from 2010 and also President of PSSI. > > So? If anything, you should be held to higher standards as a PSF > member and PSSI president. I have my personal standards and I am not the type of person who likes to project stereotypes if you understand what I mean. I like to break stereotypes. Btw, if you have heard of the term "anarchy", possibly that corresponds best to what I did. Maybe you aren't used to people in position resorting to anarchy, but I have often found it effective. See, people come from various backgrounds and beliefs, so the most civilized thing to do is to respect the other person's view points while asserting your freedom to differ instead of trying to ram down your thoughts down other's throats again and again. This is especially true in mailing lists. Being the last person to post in a thread doesn't mean you are essentially right. It possibly just means either people are shutting you out or they are treating the thread now as noise - or they are just indifferent. > >> curious. Maybe the OP of this thread who is an active member > > I may be the OP but I am not the founder, rather just a member who > setup the mailman list as I disliked the meetup.com communication > tool and dislike googlegroups even more. > > >> of PyLadies could explain it - just to educate all of us here >> and me in particlar. > > I hope Anu's email was explanation enough. Yes it was to an extent and since the matter is settled, I am not sure what you are trying to do by sending these follow-ups. > >> My "isnt_that_odd" function of ladies.py was specifically >> written to bring this point. Happy to see it hit the target. > > Anand, now you just come across as self-entitled and arrogant. The > "if apology" not withstanding. > >> 2. Mission - It would be nice to educate us all in this list >> about the goals of a separate organization for "ladies coding" as >> apart from the general PSF umbrella. I am not misogynistic > > You have been a PSF member since 2010, so did you question the PSF > when they gave a $10,000 grant to the Pyladies.com org? I'm > curious because you want to know about the motives of a chapter. No, I wasn't aware of it at that point as I don't keep track of these things regularly. However since the local chapter had started and there were a few emails, I have been thinking more about it. Being a member of PSF doesn't mean you agree with everything and also take on everything you may not agree religiously. There are grey areas where you defer your considerations to a future date - let me say this was one of it. >> in anyway, but in general I don't personally agree with "woman >> coding" as a separate problem as opposed to "people coding". > > I hope you raised these objections on the PSF mailing list too. I have been thinking more about it but as I see this is an issue more of politics than technology and society, I may not. But I might as well - I don't know at this point. > > -svaksha _______________________________________________ BangPypers > mailing list BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > - -- Regards, - --Anand - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Software Architect/Consultant anandpillai at letterboxes.org Please note my updated email address . Kindly update your address books. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSK5FSAAoJEMTxYeOp9eaoSMIIAK7Gcmm+hmQOujt33XjqOufG /AYsSmI3vSAGP+SfadyUgKm1LwfamZ5Bm3hwsAhQanRbE26aX8mxQdUZXSRkxGXR LE03+UH9ufeFuruu4CtlLe8DvbkYjwUXkjkQWVeysXeAxpgMjsJkAy7dyDHtYSqj ZZYgtoUYrwQMj6Efody68Ye2d/vzmxI9s5oopDeF89RR+X5YxWEYbUy7IbbtY5lM NR0xQIB2+LVsxnmWG2IS/8r2bOgajFq23QToZvPkNhuDBalfj7dfzne/sbA4ldgJ JbZsKwoYjo58lrBvSAPsGhVI16aUeIV1xwnw+Z+jE7sX21knb2IgEPA3ASqgCow= =w82S -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From pydanny at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 22:55:42 2013 From: pydanny at gmail.com (Daniel Greenfeld) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 22:55:42 +0200 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Anand B Pillai wrote: >> in anyway, but in general I don't personally agree with >> "woman coding" as a separate problem as opposed to "people >> coding". >I hope you raised these objections on the PSF mailing list too. >-svaksha As a PSF member I'm going to delurk right now. That's because as an admirer/supporter of the India Python community, I'm rather shocked and saddened by this thread. The PSF and pyladies have been affiliated for quite some time, arguably years at this point. In fact, the PSF has provided thousands, perhaps ten of thousands of dollars of support for PyLadies. In addition, PyLadies was co-founded by an Indian-American (Audrey Roy), so one can argue that the qualities that make up the group were influenced by her Indian heritage. For reference, Anand Pillai has never raised any issues about Pyladies in the PSF members mailing list or any other venues except for his now deleted GitHub repo, this thread, and a previous one. Like myself and other PSF members, there have been and are numerous opportunities and occasions to discuss PyLadies in official channels to which he has ready access. Rather than argue in one direction or another, I wonder how Anand would feel if I created a similar github repo, this one in regards to the entire Python community of India. Imagine those same code structures in regards to India. Imagine if I used all of his emailed arguments in the defense of my code and "humor". How would the readers of this list feel? Angry. Furious. Demanding of real apologies. Svashka is standing up for what's right. I'm behind what she says 100%. -- 'Knowledge is Power' Daniel Greenfeld Principal at Cartwheel Web; co-author of Two Scoops of Django cartwheelweb.com | pydanny.com | django.2scoops.org From pydanny at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 23:03:47 2013 From: pydanny at gmail.com (Daniel Greenfeld) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 23:03:47 +0200 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: As a PSF member I'm going to delurk right now. That's because as an admirer/supporter of the India Python community, I'm rather shocked and saddened by this thread. The PSF and pyladies have been affiliated for quite some time, arguably years at this point. In fact, the PSF has provided thousands, perhaps ten of thousands of dollars of support for PyLadies. In addition, PyLadies was co-founded by an Indian-American (Audrey Roy), so one can argue that the qualities that make up the group were influenced by her Indian heritage. The mission as described at http://www.pyladies.com/about/ but I'll summarize here: [pladies is]...a group of women developers worldwide who love the Python programming language. We write code by day or night. Some of us hack on Python projects on the side, while others work full-time on Python development. But it doesn't matter. We all just like writing Python code, and that's what brings us together. As he admits, Anand Pillai has never raised any issues about Pyladies in the PSF members mailing list or any other venues except for his now deleted GitHub repo, this thread, and a previous one. Like myself and other PSF members, there have been and are numerous opportunities and occasions to discuss PyLadies in official channels to which he has ready access. Rather than argue in one direction or another, I wonder how Anand (and everyone on this list) would feel if I created a similar github repo, this one in regards to the entire Python community of India. Imagine those same code structures in regards to India. Imagine if I used all of his emailed arguments in the defense of my code and "humor". How would the readers of this list feel? Angry. Furious. Demanding of real apologies. Svashka is standing up for what's right. I'm behind what she says 100%. On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 10:49 PM, Anand B Pillai wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, > > On Sunday 08 September 2013 01:44 AM, svaksha wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Anand B Pillai > > wrote: > >> +1. Btw, I founded and manage this list, but I see my "actions" > >> deserve some explanation. As Sriram, said I do have a (somewhat > >> extreme) sense of sarcastic and dry humour. I am also a PSF > >> member from 2010 and also President of PSSI. > > > > So? If anything, you should be held to higher standards as a PSF > > member and PSSI president. > > I have my personal standards and I am not the type of person > who likes to project stereotypes if you understand what I mean. > I like to break stereotypes. > > Btw, if you have heard of the term "anarchy", possibly that corresponds > best to what I did. Maybe you aren't used to people in position > resorting to anarchy, but I have often found it effective. > > See, people come from various backgrounds and beliefs, so > the most civilized thing to do is to respect the other person's > view points while asserting your freedom to differ instead > of trying to ram down your thoughts down other's throats > again and again. > > This is especially true in mailing lists. Being the last person > to post in a thread doesn't mean you are essentially right. It > possibly just means either people are shutting you out or > they are treating the thread now as noise - or they are just > indifferent. > > > > >> curious. Maybe the OP of this thread who is an active member > > > > I may be the OP but I am not the founder, rather just a member who > > setup the mailman list as I disliked the meetup.com communication > > tool and dislike googlegroups even more. > > > > > >> of PyLadies could explain it - just to educate all of us here > >> and me in particlar. > > > > I hope Anu's email was explanation enough. > > Yes it was to an extent and since the matter is settled, I am not sure > what you are trying to do by sending these follow-ups. > > > > >> My "isnt_that_odd" function of ladies.py was specifically > >> written to bring this point. Happy to see it hit the target. > > > > Anand, now you just come across as self-entitled and arrogant. The > > "if apology" not withstanding. > > > >> 2. Mission - It would be nice to educate us all in this list > >> about the goals of a separate organization for "ladies coding" as > >> apart from the general PSF umbrella. I am not misogynistic > > > > You have been a PSF member since 2010, so did you question the PSF > > when they gave a $10,000 grant to the Pyladies.com org? I'm > > curious because you want to know about the motives of a chapter. > > No, I wasn't aware of it at that point as I don't keep > track of these things regularly. However since the local > chapter had started and there were a few emails, I have been > thinking more about it. > > Being a member of PSF doesn't mean you agree with everything > and also take on everything you may not agree religiously. There > are grey areas where you defer your considerations to a future > date - let me say this was one of it. > > >> in anyway, but in general I don't personally agree with "woman > >> coding" as a separate problem as opposed to "people coding". > > > > I hope you raised these objections on the PSF mailing list too. > > I have been thinking more about it but as I see this is an issue > more of politics than technology and society, I may not. > > But I might as well - I don't know at this point. > > > > > -svaksha _______________________________________________ BangPypers > > mailing list BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > - -- > Regards, > > - --Anand > > - > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Software Architect/Consultant > anandpillai at letterboxes.org > > Please note my updated email address . > Kindly update your address books. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSK5FSAAoJEMTxYeOp9eaoSMIIAK7Gcmm+hmQOujt33XjqOufG > /AYsSmI3vSAGP+SfadyUgKm1LwfamZ5Bm3hwsAhQanRbE26aX8mxQdUZXSRkxGXR > LE03+UH9ufeFuruu4CtlLe8DvbkYjwUXkjkQWVeysXeAxpgMjsJkAy7dyDHtYSqj > ZZYgtoUYrwQMj6Efody68Ye2d/vzmxI9s5oopDeF89RR+X5YxWEYbUy7IbbtY5lM > NR0xQIB2+LVsxnmWG2IS/8r2bOgajFq23QToZvPkNhuDBalfj7dfzne/sbA4ldgJ > JbZsKwoYjo58lrBvSAPsGhVI16aUeIV1xwnw+Z+jE7sX21knb2IgEPA3ASqgCow= > =w82S > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers -- 'Knowledge is Power' Daniel Greenfeld Principal at Cartwheel Web; co-author of Two Scoops of Django cartwheelweb.com | pydanny.com | django.2scoops.org From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 23:04:22 2013 From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 02:34:22 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] NLTK Message-ID: Dear All, I want to build a simple automatic text based chat bot for mobile, tablet specs for proof of concept. Some Ref to talk now: http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i9300_galaxy_s_iii-4238.php User: Galaxy SIII Weight Chat Bot: 133 g --------- User: Galaxy SIII Weight (space between Galaxy S & III) Chat Bot: 133 g ---------------- User: Samsung Galaxy S3 Weight Chat Bot: 133 g ----------------- User: Galaxy S3 Dimensions Chat Bot: 136.6 x 70.6 x 8.6 mm Now I have about 2000+ specs from different companies, plus nutrition data from USDA, each spec has unique id, stored in Mongo DB. some example. [ { Title: "Galaxy SIII", Vendor: "Samsung", _id: ObjectId(...), weight: 133, ... }, { Title: "iPhone 5", Vendor: "Apple", _id: ObjectId(...), weight: 133, ... }, ..... { Title: "Lentils, Cooked, Boiled", Vendor: "Nutrition", protein: 22, ...}, ......... ] The question is, when the user talks about "Samsung Galaxy S3 Weight", "Galaxy SIII Weight", can NLTK predict a product (ex: Galaxy SIII) and give me the unique _id of the product for further look up for group/attribute like weight? Will NLTK right fit for this problem? I am zero to NLTK, any advise would help me. Any other pointer/Python lib might be helpful. -- Krish From srinivasaenergy at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 03:54:28 2013 From: srinivasaenergy at gmail.com (Srinivasa Rao) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 07:24:28 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Annapoornima I am ready to work please share job details in Python development Regards Srinivasa On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 10:01 PM, Annapoornima Koppad wrote: > All, > > Seriously, I thought people were busy not having time after the conference. > I would love to see who wants to add more commits to this particular > repository. > > Come on guys, I thought you had better jobs to do than try (very) hard to > make fun of others. > > If there are such jobless people, I have lots of work that I could share > with you. Please let me know. > > @Svaksha, thank you for pointing it out. > > I see Anand Pillai's commit already there. Need I say more to this > (un)gentlemanly attitude! > > One word to all ladies working with this guy, beware! > > Warm regards, > Annapoornima > Pyladies Bangalore > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:49 PM, svaksha wrote: > > > https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py, comes off as trying too > > hard to be cute. #EpicFail. > > > > svaksha ? ?????? > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From svaksha at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 04:53:37 2013 From: svaksha at gmail.com (svaksha) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 02:53:37 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Anand B Pillai wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, > > On Sunday 08 September 2013 01:44 AM, svaksha wrote: >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Anand B Pillai >> wrote: >>> +1. Btw, I founded and manage this list, but I see my "actions" >>> deserve some explanation. As Sriram, said I do have a (somewhat >>> extreme) sense of sarcastic and dry humour. I am also a PSF >>> member from 2010 and also President of PSSI. >> >> So? If anything, you should be held to higher standards as a PSF >> member and PSSI president. > > I have my personal standards and I am not the type of person > who likes to project stereotypes if you understand what I mean. > I like to break stereotypes. > > Btw, if you have heard of the term "anarchy", possibly that corresponds > best to what I did. Maybe you aren't used to people in position > resorting to anarchy, but I have often found it effective. > > See, people come from various backgrounds and beliefs, so > the most civilized thing to do is to respect the other person's > view points while asserting your freedom to differ instead > of trying to ram down your thoughts down other's throats > again and again. > > This is especially true in mailing lists. Being the last person > to post in a thread doesn't mean you are essentially right. It > possibly just means either people are shutting you out or > they are treating the thread now as noise - or they are just > indifferent. Am I supposed to thank you for your patronizing attempt to silence me because now you sound even more arrogant than before. >> I hope Anu's email was explanation enough. > > Yes it was to an extent and since the matter is settled, I am not sure > what you are trying to do by sending these follow-ups. An "if you were offended" is not an apology. "If" is a conditional statement and a classic "non-apology" masquerading as an apology. Since you took the trouble of creating another repo: https://github.com/pythonhacker/chillpill , I am curious if this is another "humorous" version of STFU. Did you forget to add some python code? >>> My "isnt_that_odd" function of ladies.py was specifically >>> written to bring this point. Happy to see it hit the target. >> >> Anand, now you just come across as self-entitled and arrogant. The >> "if apology" not withstanding. >> >>> 2. Mission - It would be nice to educate us all in this list >>> about the goals of a separate organization for "ladies coding" as >>> apart from the general PSF umbrella. I am not misogynistic >> >> You have been a PSF member since 2010, so did you question the PSF >> when they gave a $10,000 grant to the Pyladies.com org? I'm >> curious because you want to know about the motives of a chapter. > > No, I wasn't aware of it at that point as I don't keep > track of these things regularly. However since the local > chapter had started and there were a few emails, I have been > thinking more about it. > > Being a member of PSF doesn't mean you agree with everything > and also take on everything you may not agree religiously. There > are grey areas where you defer your considerations to a future > date - let me say this was one of it. Nobody asked you to agree with everything, I certainly didnt. The fact that Anu was able to start and get support for PyLadies-BLR from the PSF proves that she was able to kickstart it without your support. Right, you dont need every PSF member to agree on everything. >>> in anyway, but in general I don't personally agree with "woman >>> coding" as a separate problem as opposed to "people coding". >> >> I hope you raised these objections on the PSF mailing list too. > > I have been thinking more about it but as I see this is an issue > more of politics than technology and society, I may not. > > But I might as well - I don't know at this point. The next time you see anything related to PyLadies or women in Foss, feel free to air your sexist view that women's groups "is an issue more of politics than technology and society" on the PSF list. The zen of Python decrees that "Errors should never pass silently." and "Explicit is better than implicit". svaksha ? ?????? From a.koppad at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 04:38:55 2013 From: a.koppad at gmail.com (Annapoornima Koppad) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 08:08:55 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: Hello All, I was naive in accepting Anand Pillai's clever play of words as an apology. More and more, I get to see the other side of play of words. @Anand Pillai, Can you issue a proper apology clearly stating that you will refrain from making comments hurting other people's initiatives, now or in the future. Not just hurting my sentiments. Pyladies Bangalore is not a personal goal for me. Its a community goal. You have hurt entire Pyladies community. For that reason, please make a proper apology. The issue is by large and is still not closed. @Svaksha, I am supporting Svaksha's comment and think that Anand Pillai has to issue a public apology for hurting Pyladies Bangalore sentiments. @Senthil Kumaran of senthil at uthcode.com, why dont you ask Anand Pillai to be more nice and appreciative of others efforts. Being a honorable member of PSF, he himself has committed breach of the code of conduct. I am more worried now when I think of the example he is setting for the others being one of the senior most python developers in India. Why dont you ask him to tackle issues relating to gender and minorities with more respect than what he has shown so far? Thanks and regards, Annapoornima Koppad On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 2:33 AM, Daniel Greenfeld wrote: > As a PSF member I'm going to delurk right now. That's because as an > admirer/supporter of the India Python community, I'm rather shocked and > saddened by this thread. > > The PSF and pyladies have been affiliated for quite some time, arguably > years at this point. In fact, the PSF has provided thousands, perhaps ten > of thousands of dollars of support for PyLadies. In addition, PyLadies was > co-founded by an Indian-American (Audrey Roy), so one can argue that the > qualities that make up the group were influenced by her Indian heritage. > > The mission as described at http://www.pyladies.com/about/ but I'll > summarize here: > > [pladies is]...a group of women developers worldwide who love the Python > programming language. We write > code by day or night. Some of us hack on Python projects on the side, > while others work full-time on Python > development. But it doesn't matter. We all just like writing Python code, > and that's what brings us together. > > As he admits, Anand Pillai has never raised any issues about Pyladies in > the PSF members mailing list or any other venues except for his now deleted > GitHub repo, this thread, and a previous one. Like myself and other PSF > members, there have been and are numerous opportunities and occasions to > discuss PyLadies in official channels to which he has ready access. > > Rather than argue in one direction or another, I wonder how Anand (and > everyone on this list) would feel if I created a similar github repo, this > one in regards to the entire Python community of India. Imagine those same > code structures in regards to India. Imagine if I used all of his emailed > arguments in the defense of my code and "humor". > > How would the readers of this list feel? > > Angry. Furious. Demanding of real apologies. > > Svashka is standing up for what's right. I'm behind what she says 100%. > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 10:49 PM, Anand B Pillai < > anandpillai at letterboxes.org> > wrote: > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Hi, > > > > On Sunday 08 September 2013 01:44 AM, svaksha wrote: > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Anand B Pillai > > > wrote: > > >> +1. Btw, I founded and manage this list, but I see my "actions" > > >> deserve some explanation. As Sriram, said I do have a (somewhat > > >> extreme) sense of sarcastic and dry humour. I am also a PSF > > >> member from 2010 and also President of PSSI. > > > > > > So? If anything, you should be held to higher standards as a PSF > > > member and PSSI president. > > > > I have my personal standards and I am not the type of person > > who likes to project stereotypes if you understand what I mean. > > I like to break stereotypes. > > > > Btw, if you have heard of the term "anarchy", possibly that corresponds > > best to what I did. Maybe you aren't used to people in position > > resorting to anarchy, but I have often found it effective. > > > > See, people come from various backgrounds and beliefs, so > > the most civilized thing to do is to respect the other person's > > view points while asserting your freedom to differ instead > > of trying to ram down your thoughts down other's throats > > again and again. > > > > This is especially true in mailing lists. Being the last person > > to post in a thread doesn't mean you are essentially right. It > > possibly just means either people are shutting you out or > > they are treating the thread now as noise - or they are just > > indifferent. > > > > > > > >> curious. Maybe the OP of this thread who is an active member > > > > > > I may be the OP but I am not the founder, rather just a member who > > > setup the mailman list as I disliked the meetup.com communication > > > tool and dislike googlegroups even more. > > > > > > > > >> of PyLadies could explain it - just to educate all of us here > > >> and me in particlar. > > > > > > I hope Anu's email was explanation enough. > > > > Yes it was to an extent and since the matter is settled, I am not sure > > what you are trying to do by sending these follow-ups. > > > > > > > >> My "isnt_that_odd" function of ladies.py was specifically > > >> written to bring this point. Happy to see it hit the target. > > > > > > Anand, now you just come across as self-entitled and arrogant. The > > > "if apology" not withstanding. > > > > > >> 2. Mission - It would be nice to educate us all in this list > > >> about the goals of a separate organization for "ladies coding" as > > >> apart from the general PSF umbrella. I am not misogynistic > > > > > > You have been a PSF member since 2010, so did you question the PSF > > > when they gave a $10,000 grant to the Pyladies.com org? I'm > > > curious because you want to know about the motives of a chapter. > > > > No, I wasn't aware of it at that point as I don't keep > > track of these things regularly. However since the local > > chapter had started and there were a few emails, I have been > > thinking more about it. > > > > Being a member of PSF doesn't mean you agree with everything > > and also take on everything you may not agree religiously. There > > are grey areas where you defer your considerations to a future > > date - let me say this was one of it. > > > > >> in anyway, but in general I don't personally agree with "woman > > >> coding" as a separate problem as opposed to "people coding". > > > > > > I hope you raised these objections on the PSF mailing list too. > > > > I have been thinking more about it but as I see this is an issue > > more of politics than technology and society, I may not. > > > > But I might as well - I don't know at this point. > > > > > > > > -svaksha _______________________________________________ BangPypers > > > mailing list BangPypers at python.org > > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > > > > - -- > > Regards, > > > > - --Anand > > > > - > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Software Architect/Consultant > > anandpillai at letterboxes.org > > > > Please note my updated email address . > > Kindly update your address books. > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSK5FSAAoJEMTxYeOp9eaoSMIIAK7Gcmm+hmQOujt33XjqOufG > > /AYsSmI3vSAGP+SfadyUgKm1LwfamZ5Bm3hwsAhQanRbE26aX8mxQdUZXSRkxGXR > > LE03+UH9ufeFuruu4CtlLe8DvbkYjwUXkjkQWVeysXeAxpgMjsJkAy7dyDHtYSqj > > ZZYgtoUYrwQMj6Efody68Ye2d/vzmxI9s5oopDeF89RR+X5YxWEYbUy7IbbtY5lM > > NR0xQIB2+LVsxnmWG2IS/8r2bOgajFq23QToZvPkNhuDBalfj7dfzne/sbA4ldgJ > > JbZsKwoYjo58lrBvSAPsGhVI16aUeIV1xwnw+Z+jE7sX21knb2IgEPA3ASqgCow= > > =w82S > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > -- > 'Knowledge is Power' > Daniel Greenfeld > Principal at Cartwheel Web; co-author of Two Scoops of Django > cartwheelweb.com | pydanny.com | django.2scoops.org > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From sriramnrn at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 06:03:09 2013 From: sriramnrn at gmail.com (Sriram Narayanan) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 09:33:09 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 1:27 AM, svaksha wrote: > Am reading all the responses, including Anand's apology, so I'll reply > to those later. One at a time. > > And since you responded to my email, here goes: > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Vinayak Hegde wrote: > > > > > > Nope. I was talking about the initial mail which lacked context. > > There you go again. See below. > > > > I think we are splitting hairs here. I don't know him and I am not taking > > sides and this is not a battle. I support more constructive methods of > > approaching these problems in the community. Thats it. YMMV. > > Are we ? Lets see, its ok for you to split hairs and call me a troll > but I cant respond? and when I do you choose to label that as > "splitting hairs"? I find your responses a lot more patronizing and > I'm happy to explain if you care to listen. The whole "telling women" > what to do, how to handle things (despite her saying she does not like > private conversation on social issues that ought to be public). There > are plenty of sexist incidents in Foss and its not my job to go in > private to educate anyone. > > > > You are entitled to your opinion and me to mine. > > Thanks. However, your repeated emails on this thread came across as > stuffing your opinions down my throat. I dont appreciate that and find > it annoying as I dislike having private conversations on bad > behaviour, unless you are a person I trust and respect - Yes, I've had > many private conversations with hackers I've never met, just > interacted online. This is just not one of those. > > > > But if people flame > > newbies / women / other under-represented groups unfairly (as you believe > > Anand did in this case), I believe there are better ways to tackle that > > IMHO. > > ...and thusfar, your suggestion has been along the lines of "go solve > this problem in private". I've been around the FOSS block far too long > to know it does not work. Never has. So, I'm curious to know why you > expect women in Foss to solve social problems in Foss communities in > private? > > Unrelated to this thread, do you realise that it can easily become a > "he said-she said" issue which does not help at all. Been there, done > that; and blogged about it too: > http://svaksha.com/category/WOMEN/SexismInSTEM > > > > > I don't know what Anand's intentions were (and hence I reserve my opinion > > as mentioned in earlier mails), but your response (#epicfail) was pretty > > explicit. > > Vinayak, there you go, _yet_ again - you choose to reserve your > opinions on his intent, but cannot stop harping or splitting hairs > over my #EpicFail hashtag, or my first mail that "lacked context", > "was pretty explicit" (which contradicts your "lacked context" claim). > Do you want me to explain more or do you not honestly see the > different (read, unequal) standards here? A pertinent read on tone > policing: > http://geekfeminism.org/2013/09/05/tone-policing-a-tool-for-protecting-male-power/ > > Btw, Vinayak, you are not alone as Sriram also wrote to me offlist - > he has said so on the list too, but forgot to mention the full > contents, and I paraphrase - ... that I'm trying to "publicly shame > Anand Pillai", then questioned me about what I hope to achieve, and > ofcourse the same old "you should talk to him in private". Having > heard all this in this thread, I didnt bother to reply. > > Since Vid has gone ahead and paraphrased on my behalf, though only part of the mails I'd sent to her: Here's what I wrote to Svaksha when I first saw the "I love ladies.py" on the github page. I hadn't thought about checking the init files: ===== begin quote === I don't know what exactly is offensive - seems like some lame non-constructive commit by him. Seems like trying to publicly shame Anand Pillai. What exactly do you want to achieve here ? It'd have been more constructive if you were to write to him and ask him to explain himself, and then provided feedback as well as something useful for him to do. === end quote === Having seen similar names like FactoryGirl, etc in the Ruby world, and even the phrases like "Object Mother" to refer to classes that supply objects, I though Anand was going to write some new library. Later, when I saw the quoting of the source code, I realized that I should have checked the python files themselves (after all, Anand is a Python programmer). I then wrote privately to her: === begin quote === Heh, after reading other mails on this thread, I realized that I had only seen the repo name and the readme message, and not the contents of the various _init_ files. Dunno what to make of his commits! -- Ram === end quote == I then wrote to the mailing list that I'd reserve judgement until he clarified what he intended to convey. So, I wasn't in any way trying to give the "same old" treatment that Svaksha has felt that I've given this topic. In fact, I'd rather talk to her about this since I have always supported her efforts to get more women to participate actively in IT, and I believe I have some sort of rapport to draw upon to clarify any mis-communication. I'm really saddened that even though she and I have been good friends over the years, she has decided that I'm giving some sort of "same old" treatment in this case. As for Anand's code, I think we men sometimes say or do things we find absolutely fine, but may sometimes cause disillusionment and resentment in groups or communities that are already struggling regularly to be treated at par. I know this almost first hand, since one young lady whom I've been coaxing to participate in communities has stopped doing so after someone said something in her presence and she felt highly uncomfortable. "Almost first hand", since I wasn't present at the meetup that she was chaperoning on my behalf. Knowing Anand and his genuine interest in encouraging everyone to author code as well as his tendency to have sarcastic humor, I'd say he has expressed his questions in the way natural to him as a programmer, though I do think he could have asked directly. I'll leave it to him to do the right thing. -- Ram From anandpillai at letterboxes.org Sun Sep 8 06:20:00 2013 From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai) Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2013 09:50:00 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: <522BFAF0.9020303@letterboxes.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 08 September 2013 08:23 AM, svaksha wrote: > > The next time you see anything related to PyLadies or women in > Foss, feel free to air your sexist view that women's groups "is an > issue more of politics than technology and society" on the PSF > list. The zen of Python decrees that "Errors should never pass > silently." and "Explicit is better than implicit". Zen of Python also says, "Now is better than never." Let us end this now. "Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules." I possibly did a special case and broke the rules. "Practicality beats purity". "Beautiful is better than ugly." Since this is getting rather ugly, let us try and make it beautiful and be practical about it. I sincerely apologize in a heart-felt way for hurting the sentiments of the PyLadies Bangalore community . I would next time get my doubts cleared first in their mailing list before taking such actions. I hope the sentiments are cleared now. > > svaksha ? ?????? _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > - -- Regards, - --Anand - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Software Architect/Consultant anandpillai at letterboxes.org Please note my updated email address . Kindly update your address books. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSK/rpAAoJEMTxYeOp9eaoyToIAJf+P0JF9JOaYUzViLdEV7A5 VgFKI0kuvBTFYkt8+tI74C3PW7ZtKNPMF+ESsx8IqrmsO9aAdK6w7TPIVEuWHu/Q vO3Xl5u4JpoDV29VVoSjEoMebbx3vdFA7LCS/fFwLn7nX2nyIt3uYKarORIB+3Ne yKG/6W23MFQDzC7uX77asCFd3Dyk9CRueqJMjfU4HAUfqr1jQiBjUv54kz58+fPu 8hkuo+a4QpjNWWbUviZ6R145De4UFGctiXntoC0Z7Rkn/x3QBZod2mMeZBuHY5hr KBD/XfLxdfXjdZ9RY0NPg31GEcYi5rTMFm0QQz1fymC1+p0ZdBaB6Y3ZLer53eQ= =8w3Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Sun Sep 8 06:27:41 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2013 09:57:41 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [Announce] Online Python workshop Message-ID: <87d2ok3pky.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Hello everyone, I'm planning to do a small online Python workshop on the 14th (this Saturday). I've made the announcement on my website at http://thelycaeum.in/blog/2013/09/04/online_course_on_basic_python/ I'm specifically targetting college students. If you've been using python professionally for a year, I don't think you'll learn much. I'm looking mostly at newbies. The registration link is on the website. Please sign up if you're interested and help spread the word. Thanks. -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From pratham.gadre at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 07:45:05 2013 From: pratham.gadre at gmail.com (Pratham Gadre) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 05:45:05 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: Audrey, We would like to hear your thoughts on the antics pulled by Anand Pillai (member of PSF). ref: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/bangpypers/2013-September/thread.html Mails with the subject : https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py Most of us, don't like the way he is hiding behind his style of "sarcastic humor", but for fear of being called an outcast from the community, we don't have the guts to come out in the open. Being a member / moderator / owner of various e-groups (tech & non-tech) in India, I know very well, how quickly one can become an outcast for speaking out. Especially, against somebody popular like Anand. I would personally, recommend, that a proper warning be served to Anand for his misconduct. I sincerely hope that Anand is given his due for his uncalled and unwarranted 'sarcastic humor'. I am taking the trouble to escalate this issue, since Anand is a member of PSF and President of Indian Python Software Society. People with attitude like his should not be allowed to hold such posts. Regards Pratham PS: If somebody has cloned the code repository by Anand, please share the code with pyladies. If you don't want to get entangled in this mess, email the code to me, I will guarantee your anonymity. Anand, in the meanwhile please read : http://www.pyladies.com/CodeOfConduct/ On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Daniel Greenfeld wrote: > As a PSF member I'm going to delurk right now. That's because as an > admirer/supporter of the India Python community, I'm rather shocked and > saddened by this thread. > > Angry. Furious. Demanding of real apologies. > > Svashka is standing up for what's right. I'm behind what she says 100%. > From harishbadrinath at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 07:59:36 2013 From: harishbadrinath at gmail.com (harish badrinath) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 11:29:36 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] NLTK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 2:34 AM, Gopalakrishnan Subramani < gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear All, > > I want to build a simple automatic text based chat bot for mobile, tablet > specs for proof of concept. > > How do you plan to preseed the knowledge for the application (manually or information extraction through webpages,etc). > The question is, when the user talks about "Samsung Galaxy S3 Weight", > "Galaxy SIII Weight", can NLTK predict a product (ex: Galaxy SIII) and give > me the unique _id of the product for further look up for group/attribute > like weight? > > If it is manually enter the knowledge then nltk should not be required ( something like yacc plus a good database schema should suffice, again depends on the type of input language you plan to support). Warm regards, Harish Badrinath From palakmathur at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 08:11:09 2013 From: palakmathur at gmail.com (Palak Mathur) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 01:11:09 -0500 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 12:45 AM, Pratham Gadre wrote: > Audrey, > > We would like to hear your thoughts on the antics pulled by Anand Pillai > (member of PSF). > > ref: > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/bangpypers/2013-September/thread.html > Mails with the subject : https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py > > Most of us, don't like the way he is hiding behind his style of "sarcastic > humor", but for > fear of being called an outcast from the community, we don't have the guts > to come out > in the open. > > Being a member / moderator / owner of various e-groups (tech & non-tech) in > India, > I know very well, how quickly one can become an outcast for speaking out. > Especially, > against somebody popular like Anand. > > I would personally, recommend, that a proper warning be served to Anand for > his > misconduct. > > I sincerely hope that Anand is given his due for his uncalled and > unwarranted 'sarcastic humor'. > > I am taking the trouble to escalate this issue, since Anand is a member of > PSF and President of > Indian Python Software Society. People with attitude like his should not be > allowed to hold such > posts. > > Regards > Pratham > > PS: If somebody has cloned the code repository by Anand, please share the > code with pyladies. > If you don't want to get entangled in this mess, email the code to me, I > will guarantee your anonymity. > > Anand, in the meanwhile please read : > http://www.pyladies.com/CodeOfConduct/ > > I agree with Pratham. It doesn't seems from Anand's mail that he is apologetic for his behavior. His final mail where he apologizes after quoting from the Zen is like mocking others. The kind of behavior is totally unacceptable and is kind of Cyber Violence and more specifically Cyber Bullying. Legally speaking it can also lead to a case of Online Harassment under Sexual Harassment and Cyber Bullying under Sec 66A of IT Act 2000. > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Daniel Greenfeld > wrote: > > > As a PSF member I'm going to delurk right now. That's because as an > > admirer/supporter of the India Python community, I'm rather shocked and > > saddened by this thread. > > > > Angry. Furious. Demanding of real apologies. > > > > Svashka is standing up for what's right. I'm behind what she says 100%. > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From tsk.kamath at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 08:22:15 2013 From: tsk.kamath at gmail.com (T S KAMATH) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 11:52:15 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: <5A22FBFA-8527-4A72-AEA0-11426137A029@gmail.com> Hi.. Its was in bad taste and treated as such, proper apology demanded and given.. hence we hope all the concerned party rest this.. or take it up in private. ..a full apology from Anand is on the maillist, posted at 9:50AM 8 Sep 2013. rgds Srikanth On 08-Sep-2013, at 11:15 AM, Pratham Gadre wrote: Audrey, We would like to hear your thoughts on the antics pulled by Anand Pillai (member of PSF). ref: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/bangpypers/2013-September/thread.html Mails with the subject : https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py Most of us, don't like the way he is hiding behind his style of "sarcastic humor", but for fear of being called an outcast from the community, we don't have the guts to come out in the open. Being a member / moderator / owner of various e-groups (tech & non-tech) in India, I know very well, how quickly one can become an outcast for speaking out. Especially, against somebody popular like Anand. I would personally, recommend, that a proper warning be served to Anand for his misconduct. I sincerely hope that Anand is given his due for his uncalled and unwarranted 'sarcastic humor'. I am taking the trouble to escalate this issue, since Anand is a member of PSF and President of Indian Python Software Society. People with attitude like his should not be allowed to hold such posts. Regards Pratham PS: If somebody has cloned the code repository by Anand, please share the code with pyladies. If you don't want to get entangled in this mess, email the code to me, I will guarantee your anonymity. Anand, in the meanwhile please read : http://www.pyladies.com/CodeOfConduct/ On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Daniel Greenfeld wrote: > As a PSF member I'm going to delurk right now. That's because as an > admirer/supporter of the India Python community, I'm rather shocked and > saddened by this thread. > > Angry. Furious. Demanding of real apologies. > > Svashka is standing up for what's right. I'm behind what she says 100%. > _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From ashish.makani at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 08:17:27 2013 From: ashish.makani at gmail.com (ashish makani) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 23:17:27 -0700 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: +1 to Svaksha & Pratham for speaking out. Anand Pillai, your conduct is unbecoming of a python community member, leave alone a member of PSF and IPSS. IMHO, there should be no place on PSF for people like you. In your first response, you come off as super arrogant & haughty, as if having started this mailing list confers you special powers to make fun of PyLadies. There are consequences to actions. I for one would like to not have Anand Pillai as member of PSF or president of IPSS. cheers ashish Sent from mobile device. Excuse typos. On Sep 8, 2013 11:15 AM, "Pratham Gadre" wrote: > Audrey, > > We would like to hear your thoughts on the antics pulled by Anand Pillai > (member of PSF). > > ref: > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/bangpypers/2013-September/thread.html > Mails with the subject : https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py > > Most of us, don't like the way he is hiding behind his style of "sarcastic > humor", but for > fear of being called an outcast from the community, we don't have the guts > to come out > in the open. > > Being a member / moderator / owner of various e-groups (tech & non-tech) in > India, > I know very well, how quickly one can become an outcast for speaking out. > Especially, > against somebody popular like Anand. > > I would personally, recommend, that a proper warning be served to Anand for > his > misconduct. > > I sincerely hope that Anand is given his due for his uncalled and > unwarranted 'sarcastic humor'. > > I am taking the trouble to escalate this issue, since Anand is a member of > PSF and President of > Indian Python Software Society. People with attitude like his should not be > allowed to hold such > posts. > > Regards > Pratham > > PS: If somebody has cloned the code repository by Anand, please share the > code with pyladies. > If you don't want to get entangled in this mess, email the code to me, I > will guarantee your anonymity. > > Anand, in the meanwhile please read : > http://www.pyladies.com/CodeOfConduct/ > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Daniel Greenfeld > wrote: > > > As a PSF member I'm going to delurk right now. That's because as an > > admirer/supporter of the India Python community, I'm rather shocked and > > saddened by this thread. > > > > Angry. Furious. Demanding of real apologies. > > > > Svashka is standing up for what's right. I'm behind what she says 100%. > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 08:34:49 2013 From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 12:04:49 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] NLTK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have database of specs in json format. This is not manual effort. Right now, NLTK seems to be hard to me. I will try a plain Python wrappers based on word match, approach NLTK later. Thanks. On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 11:29 AM, harish badrinath wrote: > Hello, > > On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 2:34 AM, Gopalakrishnan Subramani < > gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Dear All, > > > > I want to build a simple automatic text based chat bot for mobile, > tablet > > specs for proof of concept. > > > > How do you plan to preseed the knowledge for the application (manually or > information extraction through webpages,etc). > > > > The question is, when the user talks about "Samsung Galaxy S3 Weight", > > "Galaxy SIII Weight", can NLTK predict a product (ex: Galaxy SIII) and > give > > me the unique _id of the product for further look up for group/attribute > > like weight? > > > > If it is manually enter the knowledge then nltk should not be required ( > something like yacc plus a good database schema should suffice, again > depends on the type of input language you plan to support). > > Warm regards, > Harish Badrinath > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From abdulmuneer at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 08:48:36 2013 From: abdulmuneer at gmail.com (Abdul Muneer) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 12:18:36 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: <5A22FBFA-8527-4A72-AEA0-11426137A029@gmail.com> References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> <5A22FBFA-8527-4A72-AEA0-11426137A029@gmail.com> Message-ID: +1 Regards, Abdul Muneer -- Follow me on Twitter: @abdulmuneer On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 11:52 AM, T S KAMATH wrote: > Hi.. > > Its was in bad taste and treated as such, proper apology demanded and > given.. hence we hope all the concerned party rest this.. or take it up in > private. > > ..a full apology from Anand is on the maillist, posted at 9:50AM 8 Sep > 2013. > > rgds > Srikanth > > On 08-Sep-2013, at 11:15 AM, Pratham Gadre > wrote: > > Audrey, > > We would like to hear your thoughts on the antics pulled by Anand Pillai > (member of PSF). > > ref: > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/bangpypers/2013-September/thread.html > Mails with the subject : https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py > > Most of us, don't like the way he is hiding behind his style of "sarcastic > humor", but for > fear of being called an outcast from the community, we don't have the guts > to come out > in the open. > > Being a member / moderator / owner of various e-groups (tech & non-tech) in > India, > I know very well, how quickly one can become an outcast for speaking out. > Especially, > against somebody popular like Anand. > > I would personally, recommend, that a proper warning be served to Anand for > his > misconduct. > > I sincerely hope that Anand is given his due for his uncalled and > unwarranted 'sarcastic humor'. > > I am taking the trouble to escalate this issue, since Anand is a member of > PSF and President of > Indian Python Software Society. People with attitude like his should not be > allowed to hold such > posts. > > Regards > Pratham > > PS: If somebody has cloned the code repository by Anand, please share the > code with pyladies. > If you don't want to get entangled in this mess, email the code to me, I > will guarantee your anonymity. > > Anand, in the meanwhile please read : > http://www.pyladies.com/CodeOfConduct/ > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Daniel Greenfeld > wrote: > > > As a PSF member I'm going to delurk right now. That's because as an > > admirer/supporter of the India Python community, I'm rather shocked and > > saddened by this thread. > > > > Angry. Furious. Demanding of real apologies. > > > > Svashka is standing up for what's right. I'm behind what she says 100%. > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From abdulmuneer at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 09:06:20 2013 From: abdulmuneer at gmail.com (Abdul Muneer) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 12:36:20 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> <5A22FBFA-8527-4A72-AEA0-11426137A029@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ouch, there was mail that came just before i hit send. I +1-ed what Mr. Kamath said. "Its was in bad taste and treated as such, proper apology demanded and given.. hence we hope all the concerned party rest this.. or take it up in private." It might be a politically incorrect thing for person holding a position to resort to humor (because it may not be humor for ALL audience). But I do not consider that as damaging as blowing it out of proportion. Let's not linger on the negativity for too long as it is toxic. Please cheer up, dear folks. Hug each other.. Regards, Abdul Muneer -- Follow me on Twitter: @abdulmuneer On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Abdul Muneer wrote: > +1 > > Regards, > Abdul Muneer > > -- > Follow me on Twitter: @abdulmuneer > > > On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 11:52 AM, T S KAMATH wrote: > >> Hi.. >> >> Its was in bad taste and treated as such, proper apology demanded and >> given.. hence we hope all the concerned party rest this.. or take it up in >> private. >> >> ..a full apology from Anand is on the maillist, posted at 9:50AM 8 Sep >> 2013. >> >> rgds >> Srikanth >> >> On 08-Sep-2013, at 11:15 AM, Pratham Gadre >> wrote: >> >> Audrey, >> >> We would like to hear your thoughts on the antics pulled by Anand Pillai >> (member of PSF). >> >> ref: >> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/bangpypers/2013-September/thread.html >> Mails with the subject : https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py >> >> Most of us, don't like the way he is hiding behind his style of "sarcastic >> humor", but for >> fear of being called an outcast from the community, we don't have the guts >> to come out >> in the open. >> >> Being a member / moderator / owner of various e-groups (tech & non-tech) >> in >> India, >> I know very well, how quickly one can become an outcast for speaking out. >> Especially, >> against somebody popular like Anand. >> >> I would personally, recommend, that a proper warning be served to Anand >> for >> his >> misconduct. >> >> I sincerely hope that Anand is given his due for his uncalled and >> unwarranted 'sarcastic humor'. >> >> I am taking the trouble to escalate this issue, since Anand is a member of >> PSF and President of >> Indian Python Software Society. People with attitude like his should not >> be >> allowed to hold such >> posts. >> >> Regards >> Pratham >> >> PS: If somebody has cloned the code repository by Anand, please share the >> code with pyladies. >> If you don't want to get entangled in this mess, email the code to me, I >> will guarantee your anonymity. >> >> Anand, in the meanwhile please read : >> http://www.pyladies.com/CodeOfConduct/ >> >> >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Daniel Greenfeld >> wrote: >> >> > As a PSF member I'm going to delurk right now. That's because as an >> > admirer/supporter of the India Python community, I'm rather shocked and >> > saddened by this thread. >> > >> > Angry. Furious. Demanding of real apologies. >> > >> > Svashka is standing up for what's right. I'm behind what she says 100%. >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> > > From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Sun Sep 8 09:06:54 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2013 12:36:54 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: (Pratham Gadre's message of "Sun, 8 Sep 2013 05:45:05 +0000") References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: <87mwnn3i7l.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Pratham Gadre writes: > Audrey, > > We would like to hear your thoughts on the antics pulled by Anand Pillai > (member of PSF). I think this is getting out of hand. There were mistakes made intentional or otherwise and this caused a lot of ill will. I'm not particularly fond of witch hunts. I don't think they're very effective and the damage done to the larger organisation when one of these things happen is often irreparable. The issue was raised on the mailing list and apologies were sent. If they are insufficient, it would be best to seek recitification by direct conversation rather than discussing it on a mailing list. Anand, Svashka and Annapoornima have all done a lot of work for the Python community in India. More than the work done by some of the others participating in this thread. While they have their differences, I don't think an internet drama is going to help matters in *any* way. I'm particularly put off by random people on the mailing list demanding that Anand be warned by the PSF or suggesting disciplinary action. People can make complaints and if necessary, action can be taken. I'd recommend (but don't expect) that the thread should be closed right now and further talk about this should be done between the parties involved rather than here on the mailing list. I'm off the thread. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From svaksha at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 09:16:55 2013 From: svaksha at gmail.com (svaksha) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 07:16:55 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 4:20 AM, Anand B Pillai wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Sunday 08 September 2013 08:23 AM, svaksha wrote: > > > > > The next time you see anything related to PyLadies or women in > > Foss, feel free to air your sexist view that women's groups "is an > > issue more of politics than technology and society" on the PSF > > list. The zen of Python decrees that "Errors should never pass > > silently." and "Explicit is better than implicit". > > Zen of Python also says, > > "Now is better than never." > > Let us end this now. > > > "Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules." > > I possibly did a special case and broke the rules. > > "Practicality beats purity". > "Beautiful is better than ugly." > > Since this is getting rather ugly, let us try and make it beautiful > and be practical about it. > > I sincerely apologize in a heart-felt way for hurting the > sentiments of the PyLadies Bangalore community . I would next time get > my doubts cleared first in their mailing list before taking such actions. > > I hope the sentiments are cleared now. Thank you for the apology Anand. I am seeing a number of mails and I am yet to read them all; but first, I wanted to thank everyone who supported us and request an end this thread. This apology is a lot more acceptable than the "if" one and I'd like to move on. To all those who support PyLadies, a big ThankYou. Anand, another request, can you delete the chillpill repo on github? I had not forked your (now deleted) ladies.py repo publicly as I felt you deserved a chance to explain yourself. However, your chillpill repo comes across as "STFU", annoying enough that I forked it on github. I'm happy to delete it if you care to go first. svaksha ? ?????? From a.koppad at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 09:22:08 2013 From: a.koppad at gmail.com (Annapoornima Koppad) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 12:52:08 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: <87mwnn3i7l.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> <87mwnn3i7l.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: All, Even though I am not particularly fond of Anand's deeds or comments, he has done a lot of work for the Python movement in his previous years. Which I believe should have added more sense of responsibility in his actions, given his experience. Which apparently has not happened. I suggest that he should be warned and let go. Since there was no "major" damage done. But I ask him to make his movement women inclusive. @Noufal, I do not agree that we have to have a private discussion with Anand. Svaksha already pointed them out. Adding one more reason to it, if you have not understand so far, Anand's tongue in cheek, twisted sense of humor. @Svaksha, a big thank you for bringing this to everyone's notice and for all the work that you have been doing so far. @others who supported, thanks ! Thanks and regards, Annapoornima On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 12:36 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Pratham Gadre writes: > > > Audrey, > > > > We would like to hear your thoughts on the antics pulled by Anand Pillai > > (member of PSF). > > I think this is getting out of hand. There were mistakes made > intentional or otherwise and this caused a lot of ill will. > > I'm not particularly fond of witch hunts. I don't think they're very > effective and the damage done to the larger organisation when one of > these things happen is often irreparable. > > The issue was raised on the mailing list and apologies were sent. If > they are insufficient, it would be best to seek recitification by direct > conversation rather than discussing it on a mailing list. > > Anand, Svashka and Annapoornima have all done a lot of work for the > Python community in India. More than the work done by some of the others > participating in this thread. While they have their differences, I don't > think an internet drama is going to help matters in *any* way. > > I'm particularly put off by random people on the mailing list demanding > that Anand be warned by the PSF or suggesting disciplinary > action. People can make complaints and if necessary, action can be > taken. > > I'd recommend (but don't expect) that the thread should be closed right > now and further talk about this should be done between the parties > involved rather than here on the mailing list. > > I'm off the thread. > > [...] > > > -- > Cordially, > Noufal > http://nibrahim.net.in > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From ramdaz at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 09:22:27 2013 From: ramdaz at gmail.com (Ramdas S) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 12:52:27 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: <87mwnn3i7l.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> <87mwnn3i7l.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: I think this is getting out of hand. There were mistakes made > intentional or otherwise and this caused a lot of ill will. > > I'm not particularly fond of witch hunts. I don't think they're very > effective and the damage done to the larger organisation when one of > these things happen is often irreparable. > > The issue was raised on the mailing list and apologies were sent. If > they are insufficient, it would be best to seek recitification by direct > conversation rather than discussing it on a mailing list. > > Anand, Svashka and Annapoornima have all done a lot of work for the > Python community in India. More than the work done by some of the others > participating in this thread. While they have their differences, I don't > think an internet drama is going to help matters in *any* way. > > I'm particularly put off by random people on the mailing list demanding > that Anand be warned by the PSF or suggesting disciplinary > action. People can make complaints and if necessary, action can be > taken. > > I'd recommend (but don't expect) that the thread should be closed right > now and further talk about this should be done between the parties > involved rather than here on the mailing list. > > +1 While I understand that some people are hurt, and they have a right to be hurt, but everyone is making it look and sound personal. Anand is someone who has contributed immensely as a programmer, and as an evangelist to Python community. His humour may be distasteful, misogynist or whatever, but that are his personal views, and definitely not as IPSS President or PSF member. If someone needs an apology bigger than whatever he has offered, do call him or mail him. Else please bury the hatchet and smoke peace pipes :) From anandpillai at letterboxes.org Sun Sep 8 10:10:29 2013 From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai) Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2013 13:40:29 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <522C30F5.7010008@letterboxes.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 08 September 2013 12:46 PM, svaksha wrote: > On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 4:20 AM, Anand B Pillai > wrote: >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >> >> On Sunday 08 September 2013 08:23 AM, svaksha wrote: >> >>> >>> The next time you see anything related to PyLadies or women in >>> Foss, feel free to air your sexist view that women's groups "is >>> an issue more of politics than technology and society" on the >>> PSF list. The zen of Python decrees that "Errors should never >>> pass silently." and "Explicit is better than implicit". >> >> Zen of Python also says, >> >> "Now is better than never." >> >> Let us end this now. >> >> >> "Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules." >> >> I possibly did a special case and broke the rules. >> >> "Practicality beats purity". "Beautiful is better than ugly." >> >> Since this is getting rather ugly, let us try and make it >> beautiful and be practical about it. >> >> I sincerely apologize in a heart-felt way for hurting the >> sentiments of the PyLadies Bangalore community . I would next >> time get my doubts cleared first in their mailing list before >> taking such actions. >> >> I hope the sentiments are cleared now. > > Thank you for the apology Anand. I am seeing a number of mails and > I am yet to read them all; but first, I wanted to thank everyone > who supported us and request an end this thread. This apology is a > lot more acceptable than the "if" one and I'd like to move on. To > all those who support PyLadies, a big ThankYou. > > Anand, another request, can you delete the chillpill repo on > github? I had not forked your (now deleted) ladies.py repo publicly > as I felt you deserved a chance to explain yourself. However, your > chillpill repo comes across as "STFU", annoying enough that I > forked it on github. I'm happy to delete it if you care to go > first. Done. Btw, you are welcome to email me individually about constructive programs we could do along with PyLadies. I shall also share my phone number once we get a conversation going. > > svaksha ? ?????? _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > - -- Regards, - --Anand - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Software Architect/Consultant anandpillai at letterboxes.org Please note my updated email address . Kindly update your address books. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSLDD1AAoJEMTxYeOp9eaoq+oIAJ34a2mVoDpe6XJVAgo1+996 K2z2ZVDL4+N4Isxf+1cvTYUbfrJhET3Vq1TH0++apJx4OYFGfABqZtHcPZHaGlm3 61YAJMnTgpaDqybIi1e/uyN4sLEmU0Tj1T/ttYaqs7JX9uzsn/LNhLpcf/S6a8OY pSJLqj8TxnEUswIDaX9WyfwQ4SBZ7oolrQQyssj1K/ddU0gvrMb4I14XxixjayUQ 2gucQhzT2B663u3fa2nyXtrHQZx9lWsAl266li4/J1x2rV1YmYi96f7KwN4nlKWn 2NP7ds5CDtPW3jW1Fi/c42ztFULAfBOhGrTow1ahkk22Nz2ywQoV30q1/xSDKAU= =tXxD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kushaldas at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 10:31:12 2013 From: kushaldas at gmail.com (Kushal Das) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 14:01:12 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Event report: PyCon India 2013 Message-ID: Hi, I blogged the event report at [1], photos from the event can be found at [2]. [1] http://kushaldas.in/posts/event-report-pycon-india-2013.html [2] http://www.flickr.com/photos/kushaldas/sets/72157635408571946/ Kushal -- http://fedoraproject.org http://kushaldas.in From pratham.gadre at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 10:48:21 2013 From: pratham.gadre at gmail.com (Pratham Gadre) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 08:48:21 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> <87mwnn3i7l.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Ramdas S wrote: > Anand is someone who has contributed immensely as a programmer, and as an > evangelist to Python community. His humour may be distasteful, misogynist > or whatever, but that are his personal views, and definitely not as IPSS > President or PSF member. > This is more or less similar to justifying why Obama got the Noble peace prize. He did some good work earlier, but now he is free to wage war on other nations, BUT don't forget the good work he has done! If he has been such a good evangelist of the Python community, he should have been far more careful before trying to crack 'sarcastic' jokes on a community trying to do some good work. "It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently." ~ Warren Buffett I am done with my thoughts on the issue and leave it to the community to decide what is wrong, what is right and what action should be taken. Cheers Pratham From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 19:13:37 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 22:43:37 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] How to run a block of code just before the interpreter is being exited like END{} in perl ?? In-Reply-To: <5224EDBD.1030000@letterboxes.org> References: <5224EDBD.1030000@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 1:27 AM, Anand B Pillai wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Monday 02 September 2013 08:09 PM, venkatakrishnan g wrote: > > import atexit > > > > def callback(): print "about to exit!" > > > > atexit.register( callback ) > > Better use it as decorator. > > import atexit > > @atexit.register > def last_man_standing(): > print "Hasta la vista, Baby."p > With a verb name like *register* I'd much prefer to call the function as opposed to using it as a decorator. The more idiomatic decorators have noun names, viz- property, classmethod, staticmethod, unittest.expectedFailure, (or the one you used below) contextmanager, etc. I'll admit 'unittest.skipTest' is an anomaly, but I've always felt that the unittest module was a somewhat unpythonic 1-1 port of JUnit, so we'll let that one slide. :) The other reason in favour of the invocation syntax over the decorator syntax would be that the 'atexit.register' function is variadic and it would not be possible to send in the arguments to be passed in at exit if 'atexit.register' were used as a decorator. Of course, we could nest the decorated function in another function to provide a lexical closure that would then allow us to specify those arguments, but explicitly declaring the parameters to the cleanup function and explicitly passing them to register just seems much more idiomatic to me. > [...] > - -- > Regards, > > - --Anand > > - > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Software Architect/Consultant > anandpillai at letterboxes.org > > Please note my updated email address . > Kindly update your address books. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSJO29AAoJEHKU2n17CpvDSK4IALaLNb/tP3MjUE6EvQskn8EQ > SLg2BuUY0dy2f+QfHQ2bBZLj3unuHHPHlugfK8wGbNpB80rGm0lpoyqxiU7H2JnN > aSXGyAS435VemqohOr26ZN/5nsYdSkz87KnJNlZ8YagPd+RaDZd/dc6BNM3er7va > DioJnm+txAqIenv3xGeYNQfs7U7QljKcdrzqPjJuQp65ZmSUbcfmPls1I7B6Oxxe > 1Xj+ax/N3wJeNKkWZKsvOJsHgQNMjNhTICfH8Ofsv0c04mlXI/Ej3+yIzQ/2tZwc > k9jQrlX/Wgv+Mza41RPCtJTJGkbfFVTCOiQQjvwA4ZnriuwmTAcH2axELbSr1aU= > =E2cM > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > I realize I'm a little late to the thread, but just thought I'd put in my 2c. - d From lifeofnavin at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 19:35:04 2013 From: lifeofnavin at gmail.com (Navin Pai) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 23:05:04 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Event report: PyCon India 2013 Message-ID: Nice one Kushal.. and as always, awesome pics :) Here's my review of PyCon 2013 http://www.lifeofnav.in/2013/09/review-pycon-india-2013.html Navin http://lifeofnav.in From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 19:35:27 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 23:05:27 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] How to run a block of code just before the interpreter is being exited like END{} in perl ?? In-Reply-To: <522554BF.7020100@letterboxes.org> References: <5224EDBD.1030000@letterboxes.org> <522554BF.7020100@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 8:47 AM, Anand B Pillai wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Tuesday 03 September 2013 06:27 AM, Anand Chitipothu wrote: > >> This is another version of this by mucking around directly with > >> sys.exitfunc using a with context. > >> > >> from contextlib import contextmanager > >> > >> @contextmanager def end_of_days(): def wrapper(): print > >> 'Goodbye.' yield wrapper > >> > >> with end_of_days() as sys.exitfunc: print 3+4 > >> > > > > How is this different from: > > > > import sys def goodbye(): print "Goodbye" > > > > sys.exitfunc = goodbye > > > > I don't think we are really doing anything with the context in your > > example except initializing sys.exitfunc. > I'm with Anand C on this one, the context manager serves no real purpose here; the initialization of sys.exitfunc is entirely incidental and has little bearing on the fact that it is being initialized from the value returned by the context manager. This seems to me even more un-idiomatic than using atexit.register as a decorator. YMMV, but this is more like shoehorning in a 'cute' language feature just for the heck of it. Well, nothing really except maybe, > > @contextmanager > def end_of_days(): > before_context() > def wrapper(): > print 'Goodbye.' > yield wrapper > print after_context() > > with end_of_days() as sys.exitfunc: > print 3+4 > This just conflates context/resource management with registering cleanup functions, which seems entirely unnecessary. Just provides a context manager as well to do things > before entering context and after exiting (just before > sys.exit in this case), in a modular way. > That would only hold if there's nothing following the with block in my thread of execution. In any other case the cleanup function will be executed much later and encapsulating it inside the context manager only elides the intent of the code and makes it harder to read. Even if this were just a single-file standalone script, I would much rather explicitly serialize the code. I honestly fail to see the modularity in this idiom. > > > Anand _______________________________________________ BangPypers > > mailing list BangPypers at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > - -- > Regards, > > - --Anand > > - > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Software Architect/Consultant > anandpillai at letterboxes.org > > Please note my updated email address . > Kindly update your address books. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSJVS7AAoJEHKU2n17CpvDbdsIAJD8T8AJp49jmE5l/tEpUCKu > k5U0e3cTcy7rAevxhE40lFjvmTAENw6K85Eh1hTbVt0uRQDhdDs7Lv47WuVHEppH > 28WlGkufwMHc5fIPb1XVbL7UbzPcqZd/6tUTXN+AAYZYtx2OB1rRiG6REhiFyY+Z > +8hPwMWcs6n3oV8hCJbdFITaRM9pm4RozBolFVe+r5LWBp1IO56fSt0IFDS9gceI > 5NhLI9JZReoqYEfK8cPtNBjM9y1tLGJ8AZP60E0n3WGgVZMFK0Mw1xloefIZvaBC > xa5l81BVq+zov50WkXTQ/FVCGQpJM7l9A9XRfTznC5nnx2QVbitOPgFNNZpIYQc= > =V14p > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > Also, aside from the point about python idioms, most of this discussion is rendered moot by the fact that sys.exitfunchas been flagged as deprecated in favour of atexit.register since 2.4 and suggesting it to a newbie just feels inappropriate. - d From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 19:40:54 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 23:10:54 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] folder initialization issues In-Reply-To: <874na9kuc5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <1377739543.6368.YahooMailNeo@web193305.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> <874na9kuc5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Anand Chitipothu writes: > > [...] > > > Lets say you a python file x.py. > > You can import it just using "import x". > > > > If you have y/x.py, you would import it using "import y.x" or "from y > > import x". Here x is a submodule of y and y is also a module. But where > is > > the file for module y now? Since y is a folder, Python expects > > y/__init__.py for module y. That is a convention that Python uses. > > > > So to use a folder as a module you need add __init__.py to it. Got it? > > [...] > > Also, directories as modules are often called packages. > http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/modules.html#packages > Not to be confused with python packages as packaged and distributed from a package index like https://pypi.python.org (ducks) - d From svaksha at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 19:49:42 2013 From: svaksha at gmail.com (svaksha) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 17:49:42 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: <1378661764.56829.YahooMailNeo@web163605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> <1378661764.56829.YahooMailNeo@web163605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Chris, was it easier to troll in private than on the public Bangpypers mailing list? If you're reduced to ad hominem and that too in private off-list messages, you're pretty clearly out of anything remotely relevant to say. svaksha ? ?????? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: CsquaredinOmaha Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py To: "svaksha at gmail.com" svaksha, Let me see if I can summarize your string of responses: You are offended by Anand making fun of a group that used ".com" instead of ".org" and he apparently was sarcastically bringing into question/criticism some parts of your stated mission. In the subsequent emails, you threatened to report him and announced you felt the need to shame him on this list. So in essence Anand poked fun at some of your organizational decisions, and your response was to threaten. You would be a better representative for your views if you 1) Develop thicker skin about criticism - if you are confident in your cause, you don't have to be so easily offended. This episode illustrates that you are not. It makes your position, like your confidence, look weak. 2) Threatening to get someone in trouble over an opinion is "political correctness", which is very damaging to open discourse and thought. You not only have the right to voice your opinions, but also as part of that right, you have the right to dislike another's opinion. This should never be confused with the non-existent right to shut up someone when they displease you... You would not want someone to shut you up when they disagree with you - so have the decency to recognize that applies both of you. I have had this discussion many times - for some reason programmers, despite having a college education, did not seem to pay enough attention to civil rights class. I realize you were angry and this is how you dealt with the insult you perceived. But unfortunately when you react, by being easily bruised, unconfident, and demanding suppression of others....damages your cause. Now, final note - Anand made a point that has been made many times before, and I would be interested in your response: "What purpose is served by creating a women's group, instead of joining the existing group thus making it more diverse?" In other words, what purpose is served by intentional segregation? Regards, Chris Payments Systems engineer - Omaha, Nebraska, US ________________________________ From: svaksha To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India Sent: Saturday, September 7, 2013 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Anand B Pillai wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, > > On Sunday 08 September 2013 01:44 AM, svaksha wrote: >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Anand B Pillai >> wrote: >>> +1. Btw, I founded and manage this list, but I see my "actions" >>> deserve some explanation. As Sriram, said I do have a (somewhat >>> extreme) sense of sarcastic and dry humour. I am also a PSF >>> member from 2010 and also President of PSSI. >> >> So? If anything, you should be held to higher standards as a PSF >> member and PSSI president. > > I have my personal standards and I am not the type of person > who likes to project stereotypes if you understand what I mean. > I like to break stereotypes. > > Btw, if you have heard of the term "anarchy", possibly that corresponds > best to what I did. Maybe you aren't used to people in position > resorting to anarchy, but I have often found it effective. > > See, people come from various backgrounds and beliefs, so > the most civilized thing to do is to respect the other person's > view points while asserting your freedom to differ instead > of trying to ram down your thoughts down other's throats > again and again. > > This is especially true in mailing lists. Being the last person > to post in a thread doesn't mean you are essentially right. It > possibly just means either people are shutting you out or > they are treating the thread now as noise - or they are just > indifferent. Am I supposed to thank you for your patronizing attempt to silence me because now you sound even more arrogant than before. >> I hope Anu's email was explanation enough. > > Yes it was to an extent and since the matter is settled, I am not sure > what you are trying to do by sending these follow-ups. An "if you were offended" is not an apology. "If" is a conditional statement and a classic "non-apology" masquerading as an apology. Since you took the trouble of creating another repo: https://github.com/pythonhacker/chillpill , I am curious if this is another "humorous" version of STFU. Did you forget to add some python code? >>> My "isnt_that_odd" function of ladies.py was specifically >>> written to bring this point. Happy to see it hit the target. >> >> Anand, now you just come across as self-entitled and arrogant. The >> "if apology" not withstanding. >> >>> 2. Mission - It would be nice to educate us all in this list >>> about the goals of a separate organization for "ladies coding" as >>> apart from the general PSF umbrella. I am not misogynistic >> >> You have been a PSF member since 2010, so did you question the PSF >> when they gave a $10,000 grant to the Pyladies.com org? I'm >> curious because you want to know about the motives of a chapter. > > No, I wasn't aware of it at that point as I don't keep > track of these things regularly. However since the local > chapter had started and there were a few emails, I have been > thinking more about it. > > Being a member of PSF doesn't mean you agree with everything > and also take on everything you may not agree religiously. There > are grey areas where you defer your considerations to a future > date - let me say this was one of it. Nobody asked you to agree with everything, I certainly didnt. The fact that Anu was able to start and get support for PyLadies-BLR from the PSF proves that she was able to kickstart it without your support. Right, you dont need every PSF member to agree on everything. >>> in anyway, but in general I don't personally agree with "woman >>> coding" as a separate problem as opposed to "people coding". >> >> I hope you raised these objections on the PSF mailing list too. > > I have been thinking more about it but as I see this is an issue > more of politics than technology and society, I may not. > > But I might as well - I don't know at this point. The next time you see anything related to PyLadies or women in Foss, feel free to air your sexist view that women's groups "is an issue more of politics than technology and society" on the PSF list. The zen of Python decrees that "Errors should never pass silently." and "Explicit is better than implicit". svaksha ? ?????? _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From mandarvaze at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 19:58:34 2013 From: mandarvaze at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWFuZGFyIFZhemUgLyDgpK7gpILgpKbgpL7gpLAg4KS14KSd4KWH?=) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 23:28:34 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Why PyLadies Message-ID: > before, and I would be interested in your response: > "What purpose is served by creating a women's group, instead of > joining the existing group thus making it more diverse?" > In other words, what purpose is served by intentional segregation? > Was this ever answered ? -Mandar From c2inomaha at yahoo.com Sun Sep 8 20:18:09 2013 From: c2inomaha at yahoo.com (CsquaredinOmaha) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 11:18:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> <1378661764.56829.YahooMailNeo@web163605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1378664289.99209.YahooMailNeo@web163604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> That is what I thought - you have no answers and are simply interested in forcing others by your bullying. I took it off topic, directly to you, because I was honestly interested in your reply and didn't want your reply to be compelled to be less than honest. So my asking you a question you don't want to answer ?means you label it ?"troll" and ?wondering your position on equality of free speech is "ad hominem" ..... Your stance and attitude do ?your cause disservice. ?I don't believe you have even it any thought and perhaps don't even grasped my point. Which is unfortunate, ?it seems as so many liberals, that you are?being loud without being thoughtful. ________________________________ From: svaksha To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 12:49 PM Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py Chris, was it easier to troll in private than on the public Bangpypers mailing list? If you're reduced to ad hominem and that too in private off-list messages, you're pretty clearly out of anything remotely relevant to say. svaksha ? ?????? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: CsquaredinOmaha Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py To: "svaksha at gmail.com" svaksha, Let me see if I can summarize your string of responses: You are offended by Anand making fun of a group that used ".com" instead of ".org" and he apparently was sarcastically bringing into question/criticism some parts of your stated mission. In the subsequent emails, you threatened to report him and announced you felt the need to shame him on this list. So in essence Anand poked fun at some of your organizational decisions, and your response was to threaten. You would be a better representative for your views if you 1) Develop thicker skin about criticism - if you are confident in your cause, you don't have to be so easily offended. ? ? This episode illustrates that you are not.? It makes your position, like your confidence,? look weak. 2) Threatening to get someone in trouble over an opinion is "political correctness", which is very damaging to open discourse and thought. ? ? You not only have the right to voice your opinions, but also as part of that right, you have the right to dislike another's opinion. ? ? This should never be confused with the non-existent right to shut up someone when they displease you... ? ? You would not want someone to shut you up when they disagree with you - so have the decency to recognize that applies both of you. I have had this discussion many times - for some reason programmers, despite having a college education, did not seem to pay enough attention to civil rights class. I realize you were angry and this is how you dealt with the insult you perceived. But unfortunately when you react, by being easily bruised, unconfident, and demanding suppression of? others....damages your cause. Now, final note - Anand made a point that has been made many times before, and I would be interested in your response: ? "What purpose is served by creating a women's group, instead of joining the existing group thus making it more diverse?" ? ? In other words, what purpose is served by intentional segregation? Regards, Chris Payments Systems engineer - Omaha, Nebraska, US ________________________________ From: svaksha To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India Sent: Saturday, September 7, 2013 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Anand B Pillai wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, > > On Sunday 08 September 2013 01:44 AM, svaksha wrote: >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Anand B Pillai >> wrote: >>> +1. Btw, I founded and manage this list, but I see my "actions" >>> deserve some explanation. As Sriram, said I do have a (somewhat >>> extreme) sense of sarcastic and dry humour. I am also a PSF >>> member from 2010 and also President of PSSI. >> >> So? If anything, you should be held to higher standards as a PSF >> member and PSSI president. > > I have my personal standards and I am not the type of person > who likes to project stereotypes if you understand what I mean. > I like to break stereotypes. > > Btw, if you have heard of the term "anarchy", possibly that corresponds > best to what I did. Maybe you aren't used to people in position > resorting to anarchy, but I have often found it effective. > > See, people come from various backgrounds and beliefs, so > the most civilized thing to do is to respect the other person's > view points while asserting your freedom to differ instead > of trying to ram down your thoughts down other's throats > again and again. > > This is especially true in mailing lists. Being the last person > to post in a thread doesn't mean you are essentially right. It > possibly just means either people are shutting you out or > they are treating the thread now as noise - or they are just > indifferent. Am I supposed to thank you for your patronizing attempt to silence me because now you sound even more arrogant than before. >> I hope Anu's email was explanation enough. > > Yes it was to an extent and since the matter is settled, I am not sure > what you are trying to do by sending these follow-ups. An "if you were offended" is not an apology. "If" is a conditional statement and a classic "non-apology" masquerading as an apology. Since you took the trouble of creating another repo: https://github.com/pythonhacker/chillpill , I am curious if this is another "humorous" version of STFU. Did you forget to add some python code? >>> My "isnt_that_odd" function of ladies.py was specifically >>> written to bring this point. Happy to see it hit the target. >> >> Anand, now you just come across as self-entitled and arrogant. The >> "if apology" not withstanding. >> >>> 2. Mission - It would be nice to educate us all in this list >>> about the goals of a separate organization for "ladies coding" as >>> apart from the general PSF umbrella. I am not misogynistic >> >> You have been a PSF member since 2010, so did you question the PSF >> when they gave a $10,000 grant to the Pyladies.com org? I'm >> curious because you want to know about the motives of a chapter. > > No, I wasn't aware of it at that point as I don't keep > track of these things regularly. However since the local > chapter had started and there were a few emails, I have been > thinking more about it. > > Being a member of PSF doesn't mean you agree with everything > and also take on everything you may not agree religiously. There > are grey areas where you defer your considerations to a future > date - let me say this was one of it. Nobody asked you to agree with everything, I certainly didnt. The fact that Anu was able to start and get support for PyLadies-BLR from the PSF proves that she was able to kickstart it without your support. Right, you dont need every PSF member to agree on everything. >>> in anyway, but in general I don't personally agree with "woman >>> coding" as a separate problem as opposed to "people coding". >> >> I hope you raised these objections on the PSF mailing list too. > > I have been thinking more about it but as I see this is an issue > more of politics than technology and society, I may not. > > But I might as well - I don't know at this point. The next time you see anything related to PyLadies or women in Foss, feel free to air your sexist view that women's groups "is an issue more of politics than technology and society" on the PSF list. The zen of Python decrees that "Errors should never pass silently." and "Explicit is better than implicit". svaksha ? ?????? _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From c2inomaha at yahoo.com Sun Sep 8 20:35:04 2013 From: c2inomaha at yahoo.com (CsquaredinOmaha) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 11:35:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: <1378664289.99209.YahooMailNeo@web163604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> <1378661764.56829.YahooMailNeo@web163605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1378664289.99209.YahooMailNeo@web163604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1378665304.22502.YahooMailNeo@web163604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> My apologies folks, ?this was intended to be send directly to the individual, not to the group. I generally ask someone to justify their beliefs, not to see if I agree or not,? but merely to determine if they have bothered to think out their own position. ?If they haven't done any thinking..... So, like alot of you, I'm ending this thread too. ________________________________ From: CsquaredinOmaha To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [BangPypers] Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py That is what I thought - you have no answers and are simply interested in forcing others by your bullying. I took it off topic, directly to you, because I was honestly interested in your reply and didn't want your reply to be compelled to be less than honest. So my asking you a question you don't want to answer ?means you label it ?"troll" and ?wondering your position on equality of free speech is "ad hominem" ..... Your stance and attitude do ?your cause disservice. ?I don't believe you have even it any thought and perhaps don't even grasped my point. Which is unfortunate, ?it seems as so many liberals, that you are?being loud without being thoughtful. ________________________________ From: svaksha To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 12:49 PM Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd:? https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py Chris, was it easier to troll in private than on the public Bangpypers mailing list? If you're reduced to ad hominem and that too in private off-list messages, you're pretty clearly out of anything remotely relevant to say. svaksha ? ?????? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: CsquaredinOmaha Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py To: "svaksha at gmail.com" svaksha, Let me see if I can summarize your string of responses: You are offended by Anand making fun of a group that used ".com" instead of ".org" and he apparently was sarcastically bringing into question/criticism some parts of your stated mission. In the subsequent emails, you threatened to report him and announced you felt the need to shame him on this list. So in essence Anand poked fun at some of your organizational decisions, and your response was to threaten. You would be a better representative for your views if you 1) Develop thicker skin about criticism - if you are confident in your cause, you don't have to be so easily offended. ? ? This episode illustrates that you are not.? It makes your position, like your confidence,? look weak. 2) Threatening to get someone in trouble over an opinion is "political correctness", which is very damaging to open discourse and thought. ? ?? You not only have the right to voice your opinions, but also as part of that right, you have the right to dislike another's opinion. ? ?? This should never be confused with the non-existent right to shut up someone when they displease you... ? ?? You would not want someone to shut you up when they disagree with you - so have the decency to recognize that applies both of you. I have had this discussion many times - for some reason programmers, despite having a college education, did not seem to pay enough attention to civil rights class. I realize you were angry and this is how you dealt with the insult you perceived. But unfortunately when you react, by being easily bruised, unconfident, and demanding suppression of? others....damages your cause. Now, final note - Anand made a point that has been made many times before, and I would be interested in your response: ?? "What purpose is served by creating a women's group, instead of joining the existing group thus making it more diverse?" ? ? In other words, what purpose is served by intentional segregation? Regards, Chris Payments Systems engineer - Omaha, Nebraska, US ________________________________ From: svaksha To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India Sent: Saturday, September 7, 2013 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Anand B Pillai wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, > > On Sunday 08 September 2013 01:44 AM, svaksha wrote: >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Anand B Pillai >> wrote: >>> +1. Btw, I founded and manage this list, but I see my "actions" >>> deserve some explanation. As Sriram, said I do have a (somewhat >>> extreme) sense of sarcastic and dry humour. I am also a PSF >>> member from 2010 and also President of PSSI. >> >> So? If anything, you should be held to higher standards as a PSF >> member and PSSI president. > > I have my personal standards and I am not the type of person > who likes to project stereotypes if you understand what I mean. > I like to break stereotypes. > > Btw, if you have heard of the term "anarchy", possibly that corresponds > best to what I did. Maybe you aren't used to people in position > resorting to anarchy, but I have often found it effective. > > See, people come from various backgrounds and beliefs, so > the most civilized thing to do is to respect the other person's > view points while asserting your freedom to differ instead > of trying to ram down your thoughts down other's throats > again and again. > > This is especially true in mailing lists. Being the last person > to post in a thread doesn't mean you are essentially right. It > possibly just means either people are shutting you out or > they are treating the thread now as noise - or they are just > indifferent. Am I supposed to thank you for your patronizing attempt to silence me because now you sound even more arrogant than before. >> I hope Anu's email was explanation enough. > > Yes it was to an extent and since the matter is settled, I am not sure > what you are trying to do by sending these follow-ups. An "if you were offended" is not an apology. "If" is a conditional statement and a classic "non-apology" masquerading as an apology. Since you took the trouble of creating another repo: https://github.com/pythonhacker/chillpill , I am curious if this is another "humorous" version of STFU. Did you forget to add some python code? >>> My "isnt_that_odd" function of ladies.py was specifically >>> written to bring this point. Happy to see it hit the target. >> >> Anand, now you just come across as self-entitled and arrogant. The >> "if apology" not withstanding. >> >>> 2. Mission - It would be nice to educate us all in this list >>> about the goals of a separate organization for "ladies coding" as >>> apart from the general PSF umbrella. I am not misogynistic >> >> You have been a PSF member since 2010, so did you question the PSF >> when they gave a $10,000 grant to the Pyladies.com org? I'm >> curious because you want to know about the motives of a chapter. > > No, I wasn't aware of it at that point as I don't keep > track of these things regularly. However since the local > chapter had started and there were a few emails, I have been > thinking more about it. > > Being a member of PSF doesn't mean you agree with everything > and also take on everything you may not agree religiously. There > are grey areas where you defer your considerations to a future > date - let me say this was one of it. Nobody asked you to agree with everything, I certainly didnt. The fact that Anu was able to start and get support for PyLadies-BLR from the PSF proves that she was able to kickstart it without your support. Right, you dont need every PSF member to agree on everything. >>> in anyway, but in general I don't personally agree with "woman >>> coding" as a separate problem as opposed to "people coding". >> >> I hope you raised these objections on the PSF mailing list too. > > I have been thinking more about it but as I see this is an issue > more of politics than technology and society, I may not. > > But I might as well - I don't know at this point. The next time you see anything related to PyLadies or women in Foss, feel free to air your sexist view that women's groups "is an issue more of politics than technology and society" on the PSF list. The zen of Python decrees that "Errors should never pass silently." and "Explicit is better than implicit". svaksha ? ?????? _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From svaksha at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 20:38:24 2013 From: svaksha at gmail.com (svaksha) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 18:38:24 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: Fw: Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: <1378665178.15608.YahooMailNeo@web163602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> <1378661764.56829.YahooMailNeo@web163605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1378664289.99209.YahooMailNeo@web163604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1378665178.15608.YahooMailNeo@web163602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Chris, STOP emailing me offlist. I made it very clear earlier that I didnt want to have any private conversations and have said everything on the list. List admins, can you do something to stop this? Thanks. svaksha ? ?????? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: CsquaredinOmaha Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 6:32 PM Subject: Fw: [BangPypers] Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py To: "svaksha at gmail.com" Svaksah, This was intended to be sent to you directly, not to the group list. My rule is "praise in public, criticize in private". But I made a mistake in replying using this yahoo email interface. My apologies. ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: CsquaredinOmaha To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [BangPypers] Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py That is what I thought - you have no answers and are simply interested in forcing others by your bullying. I took it off topic, directly to you, because I was honestly interested in your reply and didn't want your reply to be compelled to be less than honest. So my asking you a question you don't want to answer means you label it "troll" and wondering your position on equality of free speech is "ad hominem" ..... Your stance and attitude do your cause disservice. I don't believe you have even it any thought and perhaps don't even grasped my point. Which is unfortunate, it seems as so many liberals, that you are being loud without being thoughtful. ________________________________ From: svaksha To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 12:49 PM Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py Chris, was it easier to troll in private than on the public Bangpypers mailing list? If you're reduced to ad hominem and that too in private off-list messages, you're pretty clearly out of anything remotely relevant to say. svaksha ? ?????? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: CsquaredinOmaha Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py To: "svaksha at gmail.com" svaksha, Let me see if I can summarize your string of responses: You are offended by Anand making fun of a group that used ".com" instead of ".org" and he apparently was sarcastically bringing into question/criticism some parts of your stated mission. In the subsequent emails, you threatened to report him and announced you felt the need to shame him on this list. So in essence Anand poked fun at some of your organizational decisions, and your response was to threaten. You would be a better representative for your views if you 1) Develop thicker skin about criticism - if you are confident in your cause, you don't have to be so easily offended. This episode illustrates that you are not. It makes your position, like your confidence, look weak. 2) Threatening to get someone in trouble over an opinion is "political correctness", which is very damaging to open discourse and thought. You not only have the right to voice your opinions, but also as part of that right, you have the right to dislike another's opinion. This should never be confused with the non-existent right to shut up someone when they displease you... You would not want someone to shut you up when they disagree with you - so have the decency to recognize that applies both of you. I have had this discussion many times - for some reason programmers, despite having a college education, did not seem to pay enough attention to civil rights class. I realize you were angry and this is how you dealt with the insult you perceived. But unfortunately when you react, by being easily bruised, unconfident, and demanding suppression of others....damages your cause. Now, final note - Anand made a point that has been made many times before, and I would be interested in your response: "What purpose is served by creating a women's group, instead of joining the existing group thus making it more diverse?" In other words, what purpose is served by intentional segregation? Regards, Chris Payments Systems engineer - Omaha, Nebraska, US ________________________________ From: svaksha To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India Sent: Saturday, September 7, 2013 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Anand B Pillai wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, > > On Sunday 08 September 2013 01:44 AM, svaksha wrote: >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Anand B Pillai >> wrote: >>> +1. Btw, I founded and manage this list, but I see my "actions" >>> deserve some explanation. As Sriram, said I do have a (somewhat >>> extreme) sense of sarcastic and dry humour. I am also a PSF >>> member from 2010 and also President of PSSI. >> >> So? If anything, you should be held to higher standards as a PSF >> member and PSSI president. > > I have my personal standards and I am not the type of person > who likes to project stereotypes if you understand what I mean. > I like to break stereotypes. > > Btw, if you have heard of the term "anarchy", possibly that corresponds > best to what I did. Maybe you aren't used to people in position > resorting to anarchy, but I have often found it effective. > > See, people come from various backgrounds and beliefs, so > the most civilized thing to do is to respect the other person's > view points while asserting your freedom to differ instead > of trying to ram down your thoughts down other's throats > again and again. > > This is especially true in mailing lists. Being the last person > to post in a thread doesn't mean you are essentially right. It > possibly just means either people are shutting you out or > they are treating the thread now as noise - or they are just > indifferent. Am I supposed to thank you for your patronizing attempt to silence me because now you sound even more arrogant than before. >> I hope Anu's email was explanation enough. > > Yes it was to an extent and since the matter is settled, I am not sure > what you are trying to do by sending these follow-ups. An "if you were offended" is not an apology. "If" is a conditional statement and a classic "non-apology" masquerading as an apology. Since you took the trouble of creating another repo: https://github.com/pythonhacker/chillpill , I am curious if this is another "humorous" version of STFU. Did you forget to add some python code? >>> My "isnt_that_odd" function of ladies.py was specifically >>> written to bring this point. Happy to see it hit the target. >> >> Anand, now you just come across as self-entitled and arrogant. The >> "if apology" not withstanding. >> >>> 2. Mission - It would be nice to educate us all in this list >>> about the goals of a separate organization for "ladies coding" as >>> apart from the general PSF umbrella. I am not misogynistic >> >> You have been a PSF member since 2010, so did you question the PSF >> when they gave a $10,000 grant to the Pyladies.com org? I'm >> curious because you want to know about the motives of a chapter. > > No, I wasn't aware of it at that point as I don't keep > track of these things regularly. However since the local > chapter had started and there were a few emails, I have been > thinking more about it. > > Being a member of PSF doesn't mean you agree with everything > and also take on everything you may not agree religiously. There > are grey areas where you defer your considerations to a future > date - let me say this was one of it. Nobody asked you to agree with everything, I certainly didnt. The fact that Anu was able to start and get support for PyLadies-BLR from the PSF proves that she was able to kickstart it without your support. Right, you dont need every PSF member to agree on everything. >>> in anyway, but in general I don't personally agree with "woman >>> coding" as a separate problem as opposed to "people coding". >> >> I hope you raised these objections on the PSF mailing list too. > > I have been thinking more about it but as I see this is an issue > more of politics than technology and society, I may not. > > But I might as well - I don't know at this point. The next time you see anything related to PyLadies or women in Foss, feel free to air your sexist view that women's groups "is an issue more of politics than technology and society" on the PSF list. The zen of Python decrees that "Errors should never pass silently." and "Explicit is better than implicit". svaksha ? ?????? _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From c2inomaha at yahoo.com Sun Sep 8 20:58:51 2013 From: c2inomaha at yahoo.com (CsquaredinOmaha) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 11:58:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: Fw: Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py In-Reply-To: References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> <1378661764.56829.YahooMailNeo@web163605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1378664289.99209.YahooMailNeo@web163604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1378665178.15608.YahooMailNeo@web163602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1378666731.41760.YahooMailNeo@web163605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> My apology is retracted. ?I am sorry to have asked questions you can't answer. And I am truly sorry you are so unpleasant in how you deal with anything that isn't exactly to your liking. Again, closing the thread. ________________________________ From: svaksha To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 1:38 PM Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: Fw: Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py Chris, STOP emailing me offlist. I made it very clear earlier that I didnt want to have any private conversations and have said everything on the list. List admins, can you do something to stop this? Thanks. svaksha ? ?????? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: CsquaredinOmaha Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 6:32 PM Subject: Fw: [BangPypers] Fwd:? https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py To: "svaksha at gmail.com" Svaksah, This was intended to be sent to you directly, not to the group list. My rule is "praise in public, criticize in private".? But I made a mistake in replying using this yahoo email interface. My apologies. ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: CsquaredinOmaha To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [BangPypers] Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py That is what I thought - you have no answers and are simply interested in forcing others by your bullying. I took it off topic, directly to you, because I was honestly interested in your reply and didn't want your reply to be compelled to be less than honest. So my asking you a question you don't want to answer? means you label it? "troll" and? wondering your position on equality of free speech is "ad hominem" ..... Your stance and attitude do? your cause disservice. I don't believe you have even it any thought and perhaps don't even grasped my point. Which is unfortunate,? it seems as so many liberals, that you are being loud without being thoughtful. ________________________________ From: svaksha To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 12:49 PM Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd:? https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py Chris, was it easier to troll in private than on the public Bangpypers mailing list? If you're reduced to ad hominem and that too in private off-list messages, you're pretty clearly out of anything remotely relevant to say. svaksha ? ?????? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: CsquaredinOmaha Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py To: "svaksha at gmail.com" svaksha, Let me see if I can summarize your string of responses: You are offended by Anand making fun of a group that used ".com" instead of ".org" and he apparently was sarcastically bringing into question/criticism some parts of your stated mission. In the subsequent emails, you threatened to report him and announced you felt the need to shame him on this list. So in essence Anand poked fun at some of your organizational decisions, and your response was to threaten. You would be a better representative for your views if you 1) Develop thicker skin about criticism - if you are confident in your cause, you don't have to be so easily offended. ? ? This episode illustrates that you are not.? It makes your position, like your confidence,? look weak. 2) Threatening to get someone in trouble over an opinion is "political correctness", which is very damaging to open discourse and thought. ? ? You not only have the right to voice your opinions, but also as part of that right, you have the right to dislike another's opinion. ? ? This should never be confused with the non-existent right to shut up someone when they displease you... ? ? You would not want someone to shut you up when they disagree with you - so have the decency to recognize that applies both of you. I have had this discussion many times - for some reason programmers, despite having a college education, did not seem to pay enough attention to civil rights class. I realize you were angry and this is how you dealt with the insult you perceived. But unfortunately when you react, by being easily bruised, unconfident, and demanding suppression of? others....damages your cause. Now, final note - Anand made a point that has been made many times before, and I would be interested in your response: ? "What purpose is served by creating a women's group, instead of joining the existing group thus making it more diverse?" ? ? In other words, what purpose is served by intentional segregation? Regards, Chris Payments Systems engineer - Omaha, Nebraska, US ________________________________ From: svaksha To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India Sent: Saturday, September 7, 2013 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Anand B Pillai wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, > > On Sunday 08 September 2013 01:44 AM, svaksha wrote: >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Anand B Pillai >> wrote: >>> +1. Btw, I founded and manage this list, but I see my "actions" >>> deserve some explanation. As Sriram, said I do have a (somewhat >>> extreme) sense of sarcastic and dry humour. I am also a PSF >>> member from 2010 and also President of PSSI. >> >> So? If anything, you should be held to higher standards as a PSF >> member and PSSI president. > > I have my personal standards and I am not the type of person > who likes to project stereotypes if you understand what I mean. > I like to break stereotypes. > > Btw, if you have heard of the term "anarchy", possibly that corresponds > best to what I did. Maybe you aren't used to people in position > resorting to anarchy, but I have often found it effective. > > See, people come from various backgrounds and beliefs, so > the most civilized thing to do is to respect the other person's > view points while asserting your freedom to differ instead > of trying to ram down your thoughts down other's throats > again and again. > > This is especially true in mailing lists. Being the last person > to post in a thread doesn't mean you are essentially right. It > possibly just means either people are shutting you out or > they are treating the thread now as noise - or they are just > indifferent. Am I supposed to thank you for your patronizing attempt to silence me because now you sound even more arrogant than before. >> I hope Anu's email was explanation enough. > > Yes it was to an extent and since the matter is settled, I am not sure > what you are trying to do by sending these follow-ups. An "if you were offended" is not an apology. "If" is a conditional statement and a classic "non-apology" masquerading as an apology. Since you took the trouble of creating another repo: https://github.com/pythonhacker/chillpill , I am curious if this is another "humorous" version of STFU. Did you forget to add some python code? >>> My "isnt_that_odd" function of ladies.py was specifically >>> written to bring this point. Happy to see it hit the target. >> >> Anand, now you just come across as self-entitled and arrogant. The >> "if apology" not withstanding. >> >>> 2. Mission - It would be nice to educate us all in this list >>> about the goals of a separate organization for "ladies coding" as >>> apart from the general PSF umbrella. I am not misogynistic >> >> You have been a PSF member since 2010, so did you question the PSF >> when they gave a $10,000 grant to the Pyladies.com org? I'm >> curious because you want to know about the motives of a chapter. > > No, I wasn't aware of it at that point as I don't keep > track of these things regularly. However since the local > chapter had started and there were a few emails, I have been > thinking more about it. > > Being a member of PSF doesn't mean you agree with everything > and also take on everything you may not agree religiously. There > are grey areas where you defer your considerations to a future > date - let me say this was one of it. Nobody asked you to agree with everything, I certainly didnt. The fact that Anu was able to start and get support for PyLadies-BLR from the PSF proves that she was able to kickstart it without your support. Right, you dont need every PSF member to agree on everything. >>> in anyway, but in general I don't personally agree with "woman >>> coding" as a separate problem as opposed to "people coding". >> >> I hope you raised these objections on the PSF mailing list too. > > I have been thinking more about it but as I see this is an issue > more of politics than technology and society, I may not. > > But I might as well - I don't know at this point. The next time you see anything related to PyLadies or women in Foss, feel free to air your sexist view that women's groups "is an issue more of politics than technology and society" on the PSF list. The zen of Python decrees that "Errors should never pass silently." and "Explicit is better than implicit". svaksha ? ?????? _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 23:00:24 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 02:30:24 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Appropriate list conduct (was Re: Fwd: Fw: Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py) Message-ID: Top posting since am making some rather broad comments rather than to specific lines in particular. This is a thread which has been bothering me since morning. For a number of reasons. None of them have to do with the very essence of the thread, since I never got to see the repository and the code to be able to make a judgement. So I took an apology offered as a sign of matter closed and hopefully things taking a turn for the better. * Yet more comments continued about specific people. I've always thought a good decorum is to attack issues, generally not people. Is that a reasonable guideline to follow ? I really do not think it was appropriate to continue with judgement about people once the underlying issues had been addressed. I don't know if I hold a minority position here. * Further comments continued about how to appropriately bring the matter to a closure. I thought the convergence and agreement on the core issues should've closed it. I am frankly not sure why anyone would've imagined why list readers would be remotely interested in further tactical matters such as existence or deletion of github repos and the necessity to close them out and the sequencing thereof. * I was further happy to note that the thread died down, but no, there was more drama to follow. It so seems a private message was forwarded to the mailing list. I speak for myself, but to me and under my individual code of conduct, this is outrageous behaviour. This concerns me. There are some serious privacy issues here (imo). eg: I was to respond to matters raised in this mailing list to someone else privately, I am no longer sure whats the community stand - can it be made public or will the community severely frown on such a behaviour. I am in doubt because list admins are further being encouraged stop "this" whatever this means in the context. This breaks every known decorum I know of and I wonder if this list has a different set of rules than what I think lists follow. I think there are some meta-issues about the mailing list that do need to be discussed. I don't know if this is the place to do it, so will leave it at these set of open questions to be worked through. This discussion could be moved to an appropriate forum if this is not the place. Dhananjay On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 12:08 AM, svaksha wrote: > > Chris, STOP emailing me offlist. I made it very clear earlier that I > didnt want to have any private conversations and have said everything > on the list. > List admins, can you do something to stop this? Thanks. > svaksha ? ?????? > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: CsquaredinOmaha > Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 6:32 PM > Subject: Fw: [BangPypers] Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py > To: "svaksha at gmail.com" > > > Svaksah, > > This was intended to be sent to you directly, not to the group list. > My rule is "praise in public, criticize in private". But I made a > mistake in replying using this yahoo email interface. > My apologies. > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > From: CsquaredinOmaha > To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India > Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 1:18 PM > Subject: Re: [BangPypers] Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py > > That is what I thought - you have no answers and are simply interested > in forcing others by your bullying. > > I took it off topic, directly to you, because I was honestly > interested in your reply > and didn't want your reply to be compelled to be less than honest. > > So my asking you a question you don't want to answer means you label > it "troll" > and wondering your position on equality of free speech is "ad hominem" ..... > > > Your stance and attitude do your cause disservice. > I don't believe you have even it any thought and perhaps don't even > grasped my point. > Which is unfortunate, it seems as so many liberals, that you are > being loud without being thoughtful. > > > ________________________________ > From: svaksha > To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India > Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 12:49 PM > Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py > > > Chris, was it easier to troll in private than on the public Bangpypers > mailing list? If you're reduced to ad hominem and that too in private > off-list messages, you're pretty clearly out of anything remotely > relevant to say. > svaksha ? ?????? > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: CsquaredinOmaha > Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 5:36 PM > Subject: Re: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py > To: "svaksha at gmail.com" > > > svaksha, > > Let me see if I can summarize your string of responses: > > You are offended by Anand making fun of a group that used ".com" > instead of ".org" > and he apparently was sarcastically bringing into question/criticism > some parts of your stated mission. > > In the subsequent emails, you threatened to report him and announced > you felt the need to shame him on this list. > > So in essence Anand poked fun at some of your organizational > decisions, and your response was to threaten. > > You would be a better representative for your views if you > 1) Develop thicker skin about criticism - if you are confident in your > cause, you don't have to be so easily offended. > This episode illustrates that you are not. It makes your > position, like your confidence, look weak. > 2) Threatening to get someone in trouble over an opinion is "political > correctness", which is very damaging to open discourse and thought. > You not only have the right to voice your opinions, but also as > part of that right, you have the right to dislike another's opinion. > This should never be confused with the non-existent right to shut > up someone when they displease you... > You would not want someone to shut you up when they disagree with > you - so have the decency to recognize that applies both of you. > > I have had this discussion many times - for some reason programmers, > despite having a college education, > did not seem to pay enough attention to civil rights class. > > I realize you were angry and this is how you dealt with the insult you > perceived. > But unfortunately when you react, by being easily bruised, > unconfident, and demanding suppression of others....damages your > cause. > > Now, final note - Anand made a point that has been made many times > before, and I would be interested in your response: > "What purpose is served by creating a women's group, instead of > joining the existing group thus making it more diverse?" > In other words, what purpose is served by intentional segregation? > > Regards, > Chris > Payments Systems engineer - Omaha, Nebraska, US > > ________________________________ > From: svaksha > To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India > Sent: Saturday, September 7, 2013 9:53 PM > Subject: Re: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Anand B Pillai > wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Hi, > > > > On Sunday 08 September 2013 01:44 AM, svaksha wrote: > >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Anand B Pillai > >> wrote: > >>> +1. Btw, I founded and manage this list, but I see my "actions" > >>> deserve some explanation. As Sriram, said I do have a (somewhat > >>> extreme) sense of sarcastic and dry humour. I am also a PSF > >>> member from 2010 and also President of PSSI. > >> > >> So? If anything, you should be held to higher standards as a PSF > >> member and PSSI president. > > > > I have my personal standards and I am not the type of person > > who likes to project stereotypes if you understand what I mean. > > I like to break stereotypes. > > > > Btw, if you have heard of the term "anarchy", possibly that corresponds > > best to what I did. Maybe you aren't used to people in position > > resorting to anarchy, but I have often found it effective. > > > > See, people come from various backgrounds and beliefs, so > > the most civilized thing to do is to respect the other person's > > view points while asserting your freedom to differ instead > > of trying to ram down your thoughts down other's throats > > again and again. > > > > This is especially true in mailing lists. Being the last person > > to post in a thread doesn't mean you are essentially right. It > > possibly just means either people are shutting you out or > > they are treating the thread now as noise - or they are just > > indifferent. > > Am I supposed to thank you for your patronizing attempt to silence me > because now you sound even more arrogant than before. > > > >> I hope Anu's email was explanation enough. > > > > Yes it was to an extent and since the matter is settled, I am not sure > > what you are trying to do by sending these follow-ups. > > An "if you were offended" is not an apology. "If" is a conditional > statement and a classic "non-apology" masquerading as an apology. > Since you took the trouble of creating another repo: > https://github.com/pythonhacker/chillpill , I am curious if this is > another "humorous" version of STFU. Did you forget to add some python > code? > > > >>> My "isnt_that_odd" function of ladies.py was specifically > >>> written to bring this point. Happy to see it hit the target. > >> > >> Anand, now you just come across as self-entitled and arrogant. The > >> "if apology" not withstanding. > >> > >>> 2. Mission - It would be nice to educate us all in this list > >>> about the goals of a separate organization for "ladies coding" as > >>> apart from the general PSF umbrella. I am not misogynistic > >> > >> You have been a PSF member since 2010, so did you question the PSF > >> when they gave a $10,000 grant to the Pyladies.com org? I'm > >> curious because you want to know about the motives of a chapter. > > > > No, I wasn't aware of it at that point as I don't keep > > track of these things regularly. However since the local > > chapter had started and there were a few emails, I have been > > thinking more about it. > > > > Being a member of PSF doesn't mean you agree with everything > > and also take on everything you may not agree religiously. There > > are grey areas where you defer your considerations to a future > > date - let me say this was one of it. > > Nobody asked you to agree with everything, I certainly didnt. The fact > that Anu was able to start and get support for PyLadies-BLR from the > PSF proves that she was able to kickstart it without your support. > Right, you dont need every PSF member to agree on everything. > > > > >>> in anyway, but in general I don't personally agree with "woman > >>> coding" as a separate problem as opposed to "people coding". > >> > >> I hope you raised these objections on the PSF mailing list too. > > > > I have been thinking more about it but as I see this is an issue > > more of politics than technology and society, I may not. > > > > But I might as well - I don't know at this point. > > The next time you see anything related to PyLadies or women in Foss, > feel free to air your sexist view that women's groups "is an issue > more of politics than technology and society" on the PSF list. The zen > of Python decrees that "Errors should never pass silently." and > "Explicit is better than implicit". > > svaksha ? ?????? > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From me at bibhas.in Mon Sep 9 05:41:56 2013 From: me at bibhas.in (Bibhas) Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 09:11:56 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Appropriate list conduct (was Re: Fwd: Fw: Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Dhananjay, Finally someone is asking something sensible among all the mud throwing that's going on. I have the same set of questions. I'm one of the junior most members here and the behaviors of all the senior members have really disappointed me for last two days. Specially because a lot of people who participated in that thread, hardly participates in any python related discussions in this list. I joined this group thinking it'd be a constructive source of discussions. But with all the childish blaming around (like we kids take a matter to the teacher or parents or shout to the the class rather than trying to solve it ourselves), even after an apology was posted long back, I have started to believe that I'm in the wrong place. I'm now waiting for the matter to close and all the related people to come to peace. If that doesn't happen, I'm better off the list. And from the behaviors I've seen in last two days, I'd rather not join any other groups in future, new or old. Thanks for everything. Dhananjay Nene wrote: >Top posting since am making some rather broad comments rather than to >specific lines in particular. > > >This is a thread which has been bothering me since morning. For a >number of reasons. > >None of them have to do with the very essence of the thread, since I >never got to see the repository and the code to be able to make a >judgement. So I took an apology offered as a sign of matter closed and >hopefully things taking a turn for the better. > >* Yet more comments continued about specific people. I've always >thought a good decorum is to attack issues, generally not people. Is >that a reasonable guideline to follow ? I really do not think it was >appropriate to continue with judgement about people once the >underlying issues had been addressed. I don't know if I hold a >minority position here. >* Further comments continued about how to appropriately bring the >matter to a closure. I thought the convergence and agreement on the >core issues should've closed it. I am frankly not sure why anyone >would've imagined why list readers would be remotely interested in >further tactical matters such as existence or deletion of github repos >and the necessity to close them out and the sequencing thereof. >* I was further happy to note that the thread died down, but no, there >was more drama to follow. It so seems a private message was forwarded >to the mailing list. I speak for myself, but to me and under my >individual code of conduct, this is outrageous behaviour. This >concerns me. There are some serious privacy issues here (imo). > >eg: I was to respond to matters raised in this mailing list to someone >else privately, I am no longer sure whats the community stand - can it >be made public or will the community severely frown on such a >behaviour. I am in doubt because list admins are further being >encouraged stop "this" whatever this means in the context. This breaks >every known decorum I know of and I wonder if this list has a >different set of rules than what I think lists follow. > >I think there are some meta-issues about the mailing list that do need >to be discussed. I don't know if this is the place to do it, so will >leave it at these set of open questions to be worked through. This >discussion could be moved to an appropriate forum if this is not the >place. > >Dhananjay > > >On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 12:08 AM, svaksha wrote: >> >> Chris, STOP emailing me offlist. I made it very clear earlier that I >> didnt want to have any private conversations and have said everything >> on the list. >> List admins, can you do something to stop this? Thanks. >> svaksha ? ?????? >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: CsquaredinOmaha >> Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 6:32 PM >> Subject: Fw: [BangPypers] Fwd: >https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py >> To: "svaksha at gmail.com" >> >> >> Svaksah, >> >> This was intended to be sent to you directly, not to the group list. >> My rule is "praise in public, criticize in private". But I made a >> mistake in replying using this yahoo email interface. >> My apologies. >> >> >> ----- Forwarded Message ----- >> From: CsquaredinOmaha >> To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India >> Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 1:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [BangPypers] Fwd: >https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py >> >> That is what I thought - you have no answers and are simply >interested >> in forcing others by your bullying. >> >> I took it off topic, directly to you, because I was honestly >> interested in your reply >> and didn't want your reply to be compelled to be less than honest. >> >> So my asking you a question you don't want to answer means you label >> it "troll" >> and wondering your position on equality of free speech is "ad >hominem" ..... >> >> >> Your stance and attitude do your cause disservice. >> I don't believe you have even it any thought and perhaps don't even >> grasped my point. >> Which is unfortunate, it seems as so many liberals, that you are >> being loud without being thoughtful. >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: svaksha >> To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India >> Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 12:49 PM >> Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py >> >> >> Chris, was it easier to troll in private than on the public >Bangpypers >> mailing list? If you're reduced to ad hominem and that too in private >> off-list messages, you're pretty clearly out of anything remotely >> relevant to say. >> svaksha ? ?????? >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: CsquaredinOmaha >> Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 5:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py >> To: "svaksha at gmail.com" >> >> >> svaksha, >> >> Let me see if I can summarize your string of responses: >> >> You are offended by Anand making fun of a group that used ".com" >> instead of ".org" >> and he apparently was sarcastically bringing into question/criticism >> some parts of your stated mission. >> >> In the subsequent emails, you threatened to report him and announced >> you felt the need to shame him on this list. >> >> So in essence Anand poked fun at some of your organizational >> decisions, and your response was to threaten. >> >> You would be a better representative for your views if you >> 1) Develop thicker skin about criticism - if you are confident in >your >> cause, you don't have to be so easily offended. >> This episode illustrates that you are not. It makes your >> position, like your confidence, look weak. >> 2) Threatening to get someone in trouble over an opinion is >"political >> correctness", which is very damaging to open discourse and thought. >> You not only have the right to voice your opinions, but also as >> part of that right, you have the right to dislike another's opinion. >> This should never be confused with the non-existent right to >shut >> up someone when they displease you... >> You would not want someone to shut you up when they disagree >with >> you - so have the decency to recognize that applies both of you. >> >> I have had this discussion many times - for some reason programmers, >> despite having a college education, >> did not seem to pay enough attention to civil rights class. >> >> I realize you were angry and this is how you dealt with the insult >you >> perceived. >> But unfortunately when you react, by being easily bruised, >> unconfident, and demanding suppression of others....damages your >> cause. >> >> Now, final note - Anand made a point that has been made many times >> before, and I would be interested in your response: >> "What purpose is served by creating a women's group, instead of >> joining the existing group thus making it more diverse?" >> In other words, what purpose is served by intentional >segregation? >> >> Regards, >> Chris >> Payments Systems engineer - Omaha, Nebraska, US >> >> ________________________________ >> From: svaksha >> To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India >> Sent: Saturday, September 7, 2013 9:53 PM >> Subject: Re: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py >> >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Anand B Pillai >> wrote: >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> > Hash: SHA1 >> > >> > Hi, >> > >> > On Sunday 08 September 2013 01:44 AM, svaksha wrote: >> >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Anand B Pillai >> >> wrote: >> >>> +1. Btw, I founded and manage this list, but I see my "actions" >> >>> deserve some explanation. As Sriram, said I do have a (somewhat >> >>> extreme) sense of sarcastic and dry humour. I am also a PSF >> >>> member from 2010 and also President of PSSI. >> >> >> >> So? If anything, you should be held to higher standards as a PSF >> >> member and PSSI president. >> > >> > I have my personal standards and I am not the type of person >> > who likes to project stereotypes if you understand what I mean. >> > I like to break stereotypes. >> > >> > Btw, if you have heard of the term "anarchy", possibly that >corresponds >> > best to what I did. Maybe you aren't used to people in position >> > resorting to anarchy, but I have often found it effective. >> > >> > See, people come from various backgrounds and beliefs, so >> > the most civilized thing to do is to respect the other person's >> > view points while asserting your freedom to differ instead >> > of trying to ram down your thoughts down other's throats >> > again and again. >> > >> > This is especially true in mailing lists. Being the last person >> > to post in a thread doesn't mean you are essentially right. It >> > possibly just means either people are shutting you out or >> > they are treating the thread now as noise - or they are just >> > indifferent. >> >> Am I supposed to thank you for your patronizing attempt to silence me >> because now you sound even more arrogant than before. >> >> >> >> I hope Anu's email was explanation enough. >> > >> > Yes it was to an extent and since the matter is settled, I am not >sure >> > what you are trying to do by sending these follow-ups. >> >> An "if you were offended" is not an apology. "If" is a conditional >> statement and a classic "non-apology" masquerading as an apology. >> Since you took the trouble of creating another repo: >> https://github.com/pythonhacker/chillpill , I am curious if this is >> another "humorous" version of STFU. Did you forget to add some python >> code? >> >> >> >>> My "isnt_that_odd" function of ladies.py was specifically >> >>> written to bring this point. Happy to see it hit the target. >> >> >> >> Anand, now you just come across as self-entitled and arrogant. The >> >> "if apology" not withstanding. >> >> >> >>> 2. Mission - It would be nice to educate us all in this list >> >>> about the goals of a separate organization for "ladies coding" as >> >>> apart from the general PSF umbrella. I am not misogynistic >> >> >> >> You have been a PSF member since 2010, so did you question the PSF >> >> when they gave a $10,000 grant to the Pyladies.com org? I'm >> >> curious because you want to know about the motives of a chapter. >> > >> > No, I wasn't aware of it at that point as I don't keep >> > track of these things regularly. However since the local >> > chapter had started and there were a few emails, I have been >> > thinking more about it. >> > >> > Being a member of PSF doesn't mean you agree with everything >> > and also take on everything you may not agree religiously. There >> > are grey areas where you defer your considerations to a future >> > date - let me say this was one of it. >> >> Nobody asked you to agree with everything, I certainly didnt. The >fact >> that Anu was able to start and get support for PyLadies-BLR from the >> PSF proves that she was able to kickstart it without your support. >> Right, you dont need every PSF member to agree on everything. >> >> >> >> >>> in anyway, but in general I don't personally agree with "woman >> >>> coding" as a separate problem as opposed to "people coding". >> >> >> >> I hope you raised these objections on the PSF mailing list too. >> > >> > I have been thinking more about it but as I see this is an issue >> > more of politics than technology and society, I may not. >> > >> > But I might as well - I don't know at this point. >> >> The next time you see anything related to PyLadies or women in Foss, >> feel free to air your sexist view that women's groups "is an issue >> more of politics than technology and society" on the PSF list. The >zen >> of Python decrees that "Errors should never pass silently." and >> "Explicit is better than implicit". >> >> svaksha ? ?????? >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >_______________________________________________ >BangPypers mailing list >BangPypers at python.org >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From anandpillai at letterboxes.org Mon Sep 9 06:37:10 2013 From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai) Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 10:07:10 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Closing the thread (was Re: Fwd: Fw: Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py) In-Reply-To: <1378666731.41760.YahooMailNeo@web163605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <522B6E53.70903@letterboxes.org> <522B9153.1020101@letterboxes.org> <1378661764.56829.YahooMailNeo@web163605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1378664289.99209.YahooMailNeo@web163604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1378665178.15608.YahooMailNeo@web163602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1378666731.41760.YahooMailNeo@web163605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <522D5076.9030502@letterboxes.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 09 September 2013 12:28 AM, CsquaredinOmaha wrote: > My apology is retracted. I am sorry to have asked questions you > can't answer. > > And I am truly sorry you are so unpleasant in how you deal with > anything that isn't exactly to your liking. > > Again, closing the thread. > Thanks for the discussions. I am also responsible for starting this thread, but since the repository no longer exists and I have already commented on it, let us close this thread. If you want to discuss further about the topic I suggest changing the subject to something more appropriate for your specific post. - -- Regards, - --Anand - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Software Architect/Consultant anandpillai at letterboxes.org Please note my updated email address . Kindly update your address books. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSLVB1AAoJEMTxYeOp9eaovZcH/0u9zr9e3DcDZ/iUhy3kXTz6 igu/f8Ctszuy747I0ys6gdzW7+YT+CWfr9FQCPTOrUCzsLQj84zVxjCuWe3KWwrd Lao1nYLQ5m6/mZXoP5rkpaN95l72Qvn4N0oCMP6LJqQcMh2VuZM5TrUxg+twcOJt F98COny5zPJbJDrAwzKN6kwWryasgOeUTc80PwdeEjSsLVz6B7xga4c9lKRQBS9e tPpnbRT2KpIapS5+pt0UAl5+TBgot8qpYBeGRloPchaqdxz1Pr7230+AIEncdH1k TshE4vCm7wMgn/iYXtzUhb6zyoLmgozY8LkOFH1qKUFq8B2xa7BlflawHOINJxc= =kd4f -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From anandpillai at letterboxes.org Mon Sep 9 15:53:19 2013 From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai) Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 19:23:19 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] How to run a block of code just before the interpreter is being exited like END{} in perl ?? In-Reply-To: References: <5224EDBD.1030000@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: <522DD2CF.5030005@letterboxes.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 08 September 2013 10:43 PM, Saager Mhatre wrote: > > >> With a verb name like *register* I'd much prefer to call the >> function as opposed to using it as a decorator. The more >> idiomatic decorators have noun names, viz- property, classmethod, >> staticmethod, unittest.expectedFailure, (or the one you used >> below) contextmanager, etc. I'll admit 'unittest.skipTest' is an >> anomaly, but I've always felt that the unittest module was a >> somewhat unpythonic 1-1 port of JUnit, so we'll let that one >> slide. :) > >> The other reason in favour of the invocation syntax over the >> decorator syntax would be that the 'atexit.register' function is >> variadic and it would not be possible to send in the arguments to >> be passed in at exit if 'atexit.register' were used as a >> decorator. Of course, we could nest the decorated function in >> another function to provide a lexical closure that would then >> allow us to specify those arguments, but explicitly declaring the >> parameters to the cleanup function and explicitly passing them >> to register just seems much more idiomatic to me. Idiomatic code is always quite subjective. It is easier to differentiate between good code vs bad code than between really good code vs idiomatic (beautiful) code. I can write a very nasty looking decorator function which hides a lot of complexity (possibly with horrible code) and then decorate a function with it. Is it idiomatic - Probably not. But there would be people who think otherwise. I gave that example as it was given in the Python documentation for atexit module. http://docs.python.org/2/library/atexit.html#module-atexit > > > [...] >> _______________________________________________ BangPypers >> mailing list BangPypers at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> > > I realize I'm a little late to the thread, but just thought I'd put > in my 2c. > > - d _______________________________________________ BangPypers > mailing list BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > - -- Regards, - --Anand - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Software Architect/Consultant anandpillai at letterboxes.org Please note my updated email address . Kindly update your address books. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSLdLPAAoJEMTxYeOp9eaoKtYIAL7wknmJk8G31PHnTNaALDDw stdHN7Ln0kvLnCCIJmkAQeSa3mFPkG127RHneglmoUXptFL/9KMWlQJz6YHnzMWd CHK3+PNeFaDDqMQpU9b/pzbzMEq/UM4BvtFPQB7LhKWZgWa/YeMRQNHk/jS6+fl+ y92zSY0gaZEwRJj85Yh+WNyMlHoj3dRHhBtVSTRikHiImBv0CMNx49HymBATUm8E z0G5eGd8W9okGkaiGjCcx4JSXZ+A9WiP3M46GUYY21I3Em+ocnxfD6wQIUzSlOj+ ZJgU653joCQbUTcwVBjEEsGc3OkavbMTilkuBg/30QeHf9H1ohgcq7zRQSEJ0Mc= =ibBh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From c2inomaha at yahoo.com Mon Sep 9 17:07:30 2013 From: c2inomaha at yahoo.com (CsquaredinOmaha) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 08:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques Message-ID: <1378739250.16532.YahooMailNeo@web163604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> ? For a while I had thought it would be interesting to hear "tips/techniques you? find yourself often using" ?- or perhaps found useful at one point (and thus would be valuable to newbies). It could be simple snippet, or some description of ?logic, technique or steps. From simple to sophisticated is less the issue - more that you ?"found it handy and used it alot". Whatever use area: ?ETL data files, servers, SQL maintenance, webcrawlers, anything.? #--here is a snippet to open Windows File Explorer to select a file? #--file explorer to select,open, and then parse network IP logfile from Tkinter import * import tkFileDialog logfilename = tkFileDialog.askopenfilename() #print logfilename logfile = open(logfilename, "r") From c2inomaha at yahoo.com Mon Sep 9 18:07:26 2013 From: c2inomaha at yahoo.com (CsquaredinOmaha) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 09:07:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [BangPypers] Appropriate list conduct (was Re: Fwd: Fw: Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1378742846.42721.YahooMailNeo@web163603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Bibhas, You should be able to rest easy. ?In the 10+yrs I have been on this mailing seldom/never have I seen someone bring in discord ?and? in-your-face as was done recently... I rather expect to go another 10yrs before seeing it here again. Now, to Bibhas' ?point about desiring to see Pythonic discussions - always good initiative to start some discussions rather than waiting?for one. ? We try to avoid questions that fail the "did you google it first?" test. Other that that, whether a discussion is interesting and topical is, er, subjective.? Don't be afraid to try it. Not every discussion must be about the arcane here.? So to that I started a thread of interest to me, hopefully useful to those new to the list, what "favorite tips" our experts here found of frequent use. ? ________________________________ From: Bibhas To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [BangPypers] Appropriate list conduct (was Re: Fwd: Fw: Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py) Thanks Dhananjay, Finally someone is asking something sensible among all the mud throwing that's going on. I have the same set of questions. I'm? one of the junior most members here and the behaviors of all the senior members have really disappointed me for last two days. Specially because a lot of people who participated in that thread, hardly participates in any python related discussions in this list. I joined this group thinking it'd be a constructive source of discussions. But with all the childish blaming around (like we kids take a matter to the teacher or parents or shout to the the class rather than trying to solve it ourselves), even after an apology was posted long back, I have started to believe that I'm in the wrong place. I'm now waiting for the matter to close and all the related people to come to peace. If that doesn't happen, I'm better off the list. And from the behaviors I've seen in last two days, I'd rather not join any other groups in future, new or old. Thanks for everything. Dhananjay Nene wrote: >Top posting since am making some rather broad comments rather than to >specific lines in particular. > > >This is a thread which has been bothering me since morning. For a >number of reasons. > >None of them have to do with the very essence of the thread, since I >never got to see the repository and the code to be able to make a >judgement. So I took an apology offered as a sign of matter closed and >hopefully things taking a turn for the better. > >* Yet more comments continued about specific people. I've always >thought a good decorum is to attack issues, generally not people. Is >that a reasonable guideline to follow ? I really do not think it was >appropriate to continue with judgement about people once the >underlying issues had been addressed. I don't know if I hold a >minority position here. >* Further comments continued about how to appropriately bring the >matter to a closure. I thought the convergence and agreement on the >core issues should've closed it. I am frankly not sure why anyone >would've imagined why list readers would be remotely interested in >further tactical matters such as existence or deletion of github repos >and the necessity to close them out and the sequencing thereof. >* I was further happy to note that the thread died down, but no, there >was more drama to follow. It so seems a private message was forwarded >to the mailing list. I speak for myself, but to me and under my >individual code of conduct, this is outrageous behaviour. This >concerns me. There are some serious privacy issues here (imo). > >eg: I was to respond to matters raised in this mailing list to someone >else privately, I am no longer sure whats the community stand - can it >be made public or will the community severely frown on such a >behaviour. I am in doubt because list admins are further being >encouraged stop "this" whatever this means in the context. This breaks >every known decorum I know of and I wonder if this list has a >different set of rules than what I think lists follow. > >I think there are some meta-issues about the mailing list that do need >to be discussed. I don't know if this is the place to do it, so will >leave it at these set of open questions to be worked through. This >discussion could be moved to an appropriate forum if this is not the >place. > >Dhananjay > > >On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 12:08 AM, svaksha wrote: >> >> Chris, STOP emailing me offlist. I made it very clear earlier that I >> didnt want to have any private conversations and have said everything >> on the list. >> List admins, can you do something to stop this? Thanks. >> svaksha ? ?????? >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: CsquaredinOmaha >> Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 6:32 PM >> Subject: Fw: [BangPypers] Fwd: >https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py >> To: "svaksha at gmail.com" >> >> >> Svaksah, >> >> This was intended to be sent to you directly, not to the group list. >> My rule is "praise in public, criticize in private".? But I made a >> mistake in replying using this yahoo email interface. >> My apologies. >> >> >> ----- Forwarded Message ----- >> From: CsquaredinOmaha >> To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India >> Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 1:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [BangPypers] Fwd: >https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py >> >> That is what I thought - you have no answers and are simply >interested >> in forcing others by your bullying. >> >> I took it off topic, directly to you, because I was honestly >> interested in your reply >> and didn't want your reply to be compelled to be less than honest. >> >> So my asking you a question you don't want to answer? means you label >> it? "troll" >> and? wondering your position on equality of free speech is "ad >hominem" ..... >> >> >> Your stance and attitude do? your cause disservice. >>? I don't believe you have even it any thought and perhaps don't even >> grasped my point. >> Which is unfortunate,? it seems as so many liberals, that you are >> being loud without being thoughtful. >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: svaksha >> To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India >> Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 12:49 PM >> Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd:? https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py >> >> >> Chris, was it easier to troll in private than on the public >Bangpypers >> mailing list? If you're reduced to ad hominem and that too in private >> off-list messages, you're pretty clearly out of anything remotely >> relevant to say. >> svaksha ? ?????? >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: CsquaredinOmaha >> Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 5:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py >> To: "svaksha at gmail.com" >> >> >> svaksha, >> >> Let me see if I can summarize your string of responses: >> >> You are offended by Anand making fun of a group that used ".com" >> instead of ".org" >> and he apparently was sarcastically bringing into question/criticism >> some parts of your stated mission. >> >> In the subsequent emails, you threatened to report him and announced >> you felt the need to shame him on this list. >> >> So in essence Anand poked fun at some of your organizational >> decisions, and your response was to threaten. >> >> You would be a better representative for your views if you >> 1) Develop thicker skin about criticism - if you are confident in >your >> cause, you don't have to be so easily offended. >>? ? This episode illustrates that you are not.? It makes your >> position, like your confidence,? look weak. >> 2) Threatening to get someone in trouble over an opinion is >"political >> correctness", which is very damaging to open discourse and thought. >>? ? ? You not only have the right to voice your opinions, but also as >> part of that right, you have the right to dislike another's opinion. >>? ? ? This should never be confused with the non-existent right to >shut >> up someone when they displease you... >>? ? ? You would not want someone to shut you up when they disagree >with >> you - so have the decency to recognize that applies both of you. >> >> I have had this discussion many times - for some reason programmers, >> despite having a college education, >> did not seem to pay enough attention to civil rights class. >> >> I realize you were angry and this is how you dealt with the insult >you >> perceived. >> But unfortunately when you react, by being easily bruised, >> unconfident, and demanding suppression of? others....damages your >> cause. >> >> Now, final note - Anand made a point that has been made many times >> before, and I would be interested in your response: >>? ? "What purpose is served by creating a women's group, instead of >> joining the existing group thus making it more diverse?" >>? ? In other words, what purpose is served by intentional >segregation? >> >> Regards, >> Chris >> Payments Systems engineer - Omaha, Nebraska, US >> >> ________________________________ >> From: svaksha >> To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India >> Sent: Saturday, September 7, 2013 9:53 PM >> Subject: Re: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py >> >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Anand B Pillai >> wrote: >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> > Hash: SHA1 >> > >> > Hi, >> > >> > On Sunday 08 September 2013 01:44 AM, svaksha wrote: >> >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Anand B Pillai >> >> wrote: >> >>> +1. Btw, I founded and manage this list, but I see my "actions" >> >>> deserve some explanation. As Sriram, said I do have a (somewhat >> >>> extreme) sense of sarcastic and dry humour. I am also a PSF >> >>> member from 2010 and also President of PSSI. >> >> >> >> So? If anything, you should be held to higher standards as a PSF >> >> member and PSSI president. >> > >> > I have my personal standards and I am not the type of person >> > who likes to project stereotypes if you understand what I mean. >> > I like to break stereotypes. >> > >> > Btw, if you have heard of the term "anarchy", possibly that >corresponds >> > best to what I did. Maybe you aren't used to people in position >> > resorting to anarchy, but I have often found it effective. >> > >> > See, people come from various backgrounds and beliefs, so >> > the most civilized thing to do is to respect the other person's >> > view points while asserting your freedom to differ instead >> > of trying to ram down your thoughts down other's throats >> > again and again. >> > >> > This is especially true in mailing lists. Being the last person >> > to post in a thread doesn't mean you are essentially right. It >> > possibly just means either people are shutting you out or >> > they are treating the thread now as noise - or they are just >> > indifferent. >> >> Am I supposed to thank you for your patronizing attempt to silence me >> because now you sound even more arrogant than before. >> >> >> >> I hope Anu's email was explanation enough. >> > >> > Yes it was to an extent and since the matter is settled, I am not >sure >> > what you are trying to do by sending these follow-ups. >> >> An "if you were offended" is not an apology. "If" is a conditional >> statement and a classic "non-apology" masquerading as an apology. >> Since you took the trouble of creating another repo: >> https://github.com/pythonhacker/chillpill , I am curious if this is >> another "humorous" version of STFU. Did you forget to add some python >> code? >> >> >> >>> My "isnt_that_odd" function of ladies.py was specifically >> >>> written to bring this point. Happy to see it hit the target. >> >> >> >> Anand, now you just come across as self-entitled and arrogant. The >> >> "if apology" not withstanding. >> >> >> >>> 2. Mission - It would be nice to educate us all in this list >> >>> about the goals of a separate organization for "ladies coding" as >> >>> apart from the general PSF umbrella. I am not misogynistic >> >> >> >> You have been a PSF member since 2010, so did you question the PSF >> >> when they gave a $10,000 grant to the Pyladies.com org? I'm >> >> curious because you want to know about the motives of a chapter. >> > >> > No, I wasn't aware of it at that point as I don't keep >> > track of these things regularly. However since the local >> > chapter had started and there were a few emails, I have been >> > thinking more about it. >> > >> > Being a member of PSF doesn't mean you agree with everything >> > and also take on everything you may not agree religiously. There >> > are grey areas where you defer your considerations to a future >> > date - let me say this was one of it. >> >> Nobody asked you to agree with everything, I certainly didnt. The >fact >> that Anu was able to start and get support for PyLadies-BLR from the >> PSF proves that she was able to kickstart it without your support. >> Right, you dont need every PSF member to agree on everything. >> >> >> >> >>> in anyway, but in general I don't personally agree with "woman >> >>> coding" as a separate problem as opposed to "people coding". >> >> >> >> I hope you raised these objections on the PSF mailing list too. >> > >> > I have been thinking more about it but as I see this is an issue >> > more of politics than technology and society, I may not. >> > >> > But I might as well - I don't know at this point. >> >> The next time you see anything related to PyLadies or women in Foss, >> feel free to air your sexist view that women's groups "is an issue >> more of politics than technology and society" on the PSF list. The >zen >> of Python decrees that "Errors should never pass silently." and >> "Explicit is better than implicit". >> >> svaksha ? ?????? >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >_______________________________________________ >BangPypers mailing list >BangPypers at python.org >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From shabda at agiliq.com Tue Sep 10 06:27:17 2013 From: shabda at agiliq.com (Shabda Raaj) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 09:57:17 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques Message-ID: http://code.activestate.com/recipes/52308-the-simple-but-handy-collector-of-a-bunch-of-named/ With api responses after you have parsed the json, you start doing things like: api_response["attribute"] I would much prefer to do api_response.attribute Which the bunch pattern can enable. I don't use it as frequently as I would like, as "code is read much more frequently than it is written", and not everyone would be aware of the "bunch" pattern. -- Thanks, Shabda Agiliq.com - Building Amazing Apps agiliq.com/blog/ | github.com/agiliq US: +13152854388 | IN: +919949997612 | Skype: shabda.raaj Our Android Apps | Our iOS Apps From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Tue Sep 10 06:30:37 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:00:37 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: (Shabda Raaj's message of "Tue, 10 Sep 2013 09:57:17 +0530") References: Message-ID: <87hadtz4b6.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Shabda Raaj writes: > http://code.activestate.com/recipes/52308-the-simple-but-handy-collector-of-a-bunch-of-named/ > > With api responses after you have parsed the json, you start doing things > like: > > api_response["attribute"] > > I would much prefer to do > > api_response.attribute I generally like to use attributes instead of keys. One additional advantage is that I can, if necessary, later convert the attribute into a property that does more than just return a value. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From shabda at agiliq.com Tue Sep 10 06:36:28 2013 From: shabda at agiliq.com (Shabda Raaj) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:06:28 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques Message-ID: > I generally like to use attributes instead of keys. If you are parsing json, aren't you limited to using keys? The bunch pattern can fix this, but its not widely known/used, so I don't use it as frequently as I would like. -- Thanks, Shabda Agiliq.com - Building Amazing Apps agiliq.com/blog/ | github.com/agiliq US: +13152854388 | IN: +919949997612 | Skype: shabda.raaj Our Android Apps | Our iOS Apps From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Tue Sep 10 06:39:00 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:09:00 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: (Shabda Raaj's message of "Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:06:28 +0530") References: Message-ID: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Shabda Raaj writes: >> I generally like to use attributes instead of keys. > > If you are parsing json, aren't you limited to using keys? Of course. I was making a general statement about attributes vs. keys. > The bunch pattern can fix this, but its not widely known/used, so I > don't use it as frequently as I would like. Yes. It's quite neat. -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From shabda at agiliq.com Tue Sep 10 06:44:30 2013 From: shabda at agiliq.com (Shabda Raaj) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:14:30 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s Message-ID: This is a popular talk on quircks of ruby/js https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat What are the quircks/unexpected behavior you find in Python? (Aka Python "wats"). -- Thanks, Shabda Agiliq.com - Building Amazing Apps agiliq.com/blog/ | github.com/agiliq US: +13152854388 | IN: +919949997612 | Skype: shabda.raaj Our Android Apps | Our iOS Apps From anandology at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 06:48:13 2013 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:18:13 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Shabda Raaj writes: > > >> I generally like to use attributes instead of keys. > > > > If you are parsing json, aren't you limited to using keys? > > Of course. I was making a general statement about attributes vs. keys. > > > The bunch pattern can fix this, but its not widely known/used, so I > > don't use it as frequently as I would like. > > Yes. It's quite neat. > web.py has something similar, but it works both like a dict and object at the same time. More like a javascript object. https://github.com/webpy/webpy/blob/master/web/utils.py#L52 Couple of issues with the Bunch pattern: * it is hard to check for existence of a key * hard to iterate over the keys * how do you convert a bunch object into JSON? Anand From anandology at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 06:51:02 2013 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:21:02 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Shabda Raaj wrote: > This is a popular talk on quircks of ruby/js > > https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat > > What are the quircks/unexpected behavior you find in Python? (Aka Python > "wats"). > x = 10 class Foo: print x x = 0 print x del x print x # wat? From maniandram01 at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 07:07:07 2013 From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:37:07 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10 September 2013 10:21, Anand Chitipothu wrote: > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Shabda Raaj wrote: > > > This is a popular talk on quircks of ruby/js > > > > https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat > > > > What are the quircks/unexpected behavior you find in Python? (Aka Python > > "wats"). > > > > x = 10 > > class Foo: > print x > x = 0 > print x > del x > print x > > # wat? > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > I fail to see how that is a "wat", it worked as I expected. (x is defined in the the scope of Foo, then deleted, so then the last print x will display 10) From shabda at agiliq.com Tue Sep 10 07:09:36 2013 From: shabda at agiliq.com (Shabda Raaj) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:39:36 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: > https://github.com/webpy/webpy/blob/master/web/utils.py#L52 Wow, thats better than the "bare" bunch impl. Gonna use it now. Unrelated tip: Here is a one liner I use to generate passwords and other random strings. ''.join(random.choice(string.ascii_uppercase + string.digits) for x in range(N)) On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Anand Chitipothu wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > >> Shabda Raaj writes: >> >> >> I generally like to use attributes instead of keys. >> > >> > If you are parsing json, aren't you limited to using keys? >> >> Of course. I was making a general statement about attributes vs. keys. >> >> > The bunch pattern can fix this, but its not widely known/used, so I >> > don't use it as frequently as I would like. >> >> Yes. It's quite neat. >> > > web.py has something similar, but it works both like a dict and object at > the same time. More like a javascript object. > > https://github.com/webpy/webpy/blob/master/web/utils.py#L52 > > Couple of issues with the Bunch pattern: > > * it is hard to check for existence of a key > * hard to iterate over the keys > * how do you convert a bunch object into JSON? > > Anand > -- Thanks, Shabda Agiliq.com - Building Amazing Apps agiliq.com/blog/ | github.com/agiliq US: +13152854388 | IN: +919949997612 | Skype: shabda.raaj Our Android Apps | Our iOS Apps From anandology at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 07:09:32 2013 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:39:32 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:37 AM, Ramchandra Apte wrote: > On 10 September 2013 10:21, Anand Chitipothu wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Shabda Raaj wrote: > > > > > This is a popular talk on quircks of ruby/js > > > > > > https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat > > > > > > What are the quircks/unexpected behavior you find in Python? (Aka > Python > > > "wats"). > > > > > > > x = 10 > > > > class Foo: > > print x > > x = 0 > > print x > > del x > > print x > > > > # wat? > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > I fail to see how that is a "wat", it worked as I expected. (x is defined > in the the scope of Foo, then deleted, so then the last print x will > display 10) > Try replacing class Foo: with def foo(): and see what happens. Anand From anandology at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 07:12:30 2013 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:42:30 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Shabda Raaj wrote: > > https://github.com/webpy/webpy/blob/master/web/utils.py#L52 > > Wow, thats better than the "bare" bunch impl. Gonna use it now. > > Unrelated tip: > > Here is a one liner I use to generate passwords and other random strings. > > ''.join(random.choice(string.ascii_uppercase + string.digits) for x in > range(N)) > I use it very often. Here is my random-password script. $ cat ~/bin/random-password #! /usr/bin/env python import random import sys import string try: n = int(sys.argv[1]) except IndexError: n = 20 print("".join(random.choice(string.ascii_letters) for i in range(n))) Anand From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Tue Sep 10 07:15:17 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:45:17 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: (Anand Chitipothu's message of "Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:42:30 +0530") References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Anand Chitipothu writes: [...] > I use it very often. Here is my random-password script. [...] I use mkpasswd(1) :) -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From maniandram01 at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 07:16:12 2013 From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:46:12 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I get UnboundLocalError: local variable 'x' referenced before assignment. That's strange, I'd expect the first print statement to print 10, not generate an exception. On 10 September 2013 10:39, Anand Chitipothu wrote: > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:37 AM, Ramchandra Apte >wrote: > > > On 10 September 2013 10:21, Anand Chitipothu > wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Shabda Raaj > wrote: > > > > > > > This is a popular talk on quircks of ruby/js > > > > > > > > https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat > > > > > > > > What are the quircks/unexpected behavior you find in Python? (Aka > > Python > > > > "wats"). > > > > > > > > > > x = 10 > > > > > > class Foo: > > > print x > > > x = 0 > > > print x > > > del x > > > print x > > > > > > # wat? > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BangPypers mailing list > > > BangPypers at python.org > > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > > I fail to see how that is a "wat", it worked as I expected. (x is defined > > in the the scope of Foo, then deleted, so then the last print x will > > display 10) > > > > Try replacing class Foo: with def foo(): and see what happens. > > Anand > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From anandology at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 07:17:39 2013 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:47:39 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Anand Chitipothu writes: > > [...] > > > I use it very often. Here is my random-password script. > > [...] > > I use mkpasswd(1) :) > $ sudo apt-cache search mkpasswd libstring-mkpasswd-perl - Perl module implementing a random password generator Oh, no! Anand From shabda at agiliq.com Tue Sep 10 07:19:44 2013 From: shabda at agiliq.com (Shabda Raaj) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:49:44 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: Real programmers pipe /dev/urandom :) Let me preempt the xkcd: http://xkcd.com/378/ On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:47 AM, Anand Chitipothu wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > >> Anand Chitipothu writes: >> >> [...] >> >> > I use it very often. Here is my random-password script. >> >> [...] >> >> I use mkpasswd(1) :) >> > > $ sudo apt-cache search mkpasswd > libstring-mkpasswd-perl - Perl module implementing a random password > generator > > Oh, no! > > Anand > -- Thanks, Shabda Agiliq.com - Building Amazing Apps agiliq.com/blog/ | github.com/agiliq US: +13152854388 | IN: +919949997612 | Skype: shabda.raaj Our Android Apps | Our iOS Apps From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Tue Sep 10 07:21:25 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:51:25 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: (Anand Chitipothu's message of "Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:47:39 +0530") References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <878uz5xne2.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Anand Chitipothu writes: [...] > $ sudo apt-cache search mkpasswd > libstring-mkpasswd-perl - Perl module implementing a random password > generator I think that's something else. noufal at sanitarium% dpkg -S =mkpasswd whois: /usr/bin/mkpasswd noufal at sanitarium% file =mkpasswd /usr/bin/mkpasswd: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=0x2427549126fc6c2dda9f8420a090fc65a1c16130, stripped noufal at sanitarium% whatis mkpasswd mkpasswd (1) - Overfeatured front end to crypt(3) -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From anandology at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 07:23:25 2013 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:53:25 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Ramchandra Apte wrote: > I get UnboundLocalError: local variable 'x' referenced before assignment. > That's strange, I'd expect the first print statement to print 10, not > generate an exception. > A variable is either local or global. It is decided at the compile time. If there is an assignment to a variable inside a function, it is considered as local unless it is explicitly declared as global. This rule doesn't apply to class definitions. Here is some exercises/puzzles related to scoping rules in Python. I use these in my advanced python course. http://anandology.com/apy/slides/scoping-rules.html Anand From shabda at agiliq.com Tue Sep 10 07:27:49 2013 From: shabda at agiliq.com (Shabda Raaj) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:57:49 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > A variable is either local or global. It is decided at the compile time. Erm, compile? Python's scoping rules are , erm, interesting: http://me.veekun.com/blog/2011/04/24/gotcha-python-scoping-closures/ The mnemonic for scoping is LEGB: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/291978/short-description-of-python-scoping-rules From anandology at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 07:33:21 2013 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:03:21 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Shabda Raaj wrote: > > A variable is either local or global. It is decided at the compile time. > > Erm, compile? > well, you may call it module/script load time. But python compiles the code and generates bytecode before executing it. $ file a.pyc a.pyc: python 2.6 byte-compiled Anand From shabda at agiliq.com Tue Sep 10 07:40:38 2013 From: shabda at agiliq.com (Shabda Raaj) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:10:38 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Should equality (__eq__) be dependent on the typeof object? Message-ID: Eg: See this: http://nbviewer.ipython.org/5151306 I was expecting datetime.date.today() == datetime.datetime.today() to give me a True. (It is false). For example this works as I expect: http://nbviewer.ipython.org/5151398 However looks like __eq__ is doing a isinstance check - I would expect things which are "duck-type" equal to pass the __eq__ check. http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/5fb700ca3fd5/Lib/datetime.py -- Thanks, Shabda Agiliq.com - Building Amazing Apps agiliq.com/blog/ | github.com/agiliq US: +13152854388 | IN: +919949997612 | Skype: shabda.raaj Our Android Apps | Our iOS Apps From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Tue Sep 10 07:47:30 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:17:30 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Should equality (__eq__) be dependent on the typeof object? In-Reply-To: (Shabda Raaj's message of "Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:10:38 +0530") References: Message-ID: <8738pdxm6l.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Shabda Raaj writes: > Eg: See this: > > http://nbviewer.ipython.org/5151306 > > I was expecting datetime.date.today() == datetime.datetime.today() > > to give me a True. (It is false). I'd expect it to be False. There will be a small amount of time between the two invocations and the time will change >>> x, y = (datetime.datetime.now(),datetime.datetime.now()) >>> x datetime.datetime(2013, 9, 10, 11, 14, 16, 662050) >>> y datetime.datetime(2013, 9, 10, 11, 14, 16, 662102) >>> > For example this works as I expect: > > http://nbviewer.ipython.org/5151398 > > However looks like __eq__ is doing a isinstance check - I would expect > things which are "duck-type" equal to pass the __eq__ check. > > http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/5fb700ca3fd5/Lib/datetime.py It's doing the isinstance to error out if you try to compare a datetime against something like an integer or something. If that doesn't happen, it goes into _cmp and does the actual work. -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From me at bibhas.in Tue Sep 10 07:40:26 2013 From: me at bibhas.in (Bibhas) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:10:26 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Anand Chitipothu wrote: >On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Shabda Raaj >wrote: > >> > A variable is either local or global. It is decided at the compile >time. >> >> Erm, compile? >> > >well, you may call it module/script load time. But python compiles the >code >and generates bytecode before executing it. > >$ file a.pyc >a.pyc: python 2.6 byte-compiled > Only the scripts that have been imported somewhere. Right? >Anand >_______________________________________________ >BangPypers mailing list >BangPypers at python.org >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers -- Thanks Bibhas http://bibhas.in Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From tej at micrograce.co Tue Sep 10 07:48:15 2013 From: tej at micrograce.co (Tej Pochiraju) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:18:15 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Short term contract - Flask developer Message-ID: Hi all, I am looking for a reasonably experienced Flask developer to help us put finishing touches on a product. Experience of remote configuration management tools such as Salt Stack would be greatly appreciated. Please get in touch if interested and feel free to pass my details onto anyone you think might be suitable/interested. I am looking for a Bangalore based developer only at this stage. Thanks and Regards, Tej --- Dr. Tej Pochiraju MicroGrace Wireless Solutions Mob: +91 (0) 74119 67890 From shabda at agiliq.com Tue Sep 10 07:54:26 2013 From: shabda at agiliq.com (Shabda Raaj) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:24:26 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Should equality (__eq__) be dependent on the typeof object? In-Reply-To: <8738pdxm6l.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <8738pdxm6l.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: > I'd expect it to be False. There will be a small amount of time between the two invocations and the time will change Ok, that makes sense. Should have written a better test case. What about this. >>> datetime.datetime(2013, 1, 1) == datetime.date(2013, 1, 1) False >>> datetime.datetime.today() == datetime.date.today() False >>> From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Tue Sep 10 08:00:20 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:30:20 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Should equality (__eq__) be dependent on the typeof object? In-Reply-To: (Shabda Raaj's message of "Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:24:26 +0530") References: <8738pdxm6l.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <87txhtw70r.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Shabda Raaj writes: >> I'd expect it to be False. There will be a small amount of time between > the two invocations and the time will change > > Ok, that makes sense. Should have written a better test case. What about > this. > >>>> datetime.datetime(2013, 1, 1) == datetime.date(2013, 1, 1) > False >>>> datetime.datetime.today() == datetime.date.today() > False I think that's reasonable. "Today" (10/Sep) is not equal to "right now" (10/Sep, 11:28 am). Makes sense no? However, >>> x, y = datetime.datetime(2013, 1, 1), datetime.date(2013, 1, 1) >>> x.date() == y True which is much more sensible. For what it's worth, I think this whole business of dates and times is a mess. -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From anandpillai at letterboxes.org Tue Sep 10 08:00:53 2013 From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:30:53 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Simulating atexit using weakref (was How to run a block of code just before the interpreter is being exited ...) In-Reply-To: <8761uicthg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <8761uicthg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <522EB595.4060000@letterboxes.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, I was playing around with different ways to simulate what atexit does and found this very interesting use-case with weak references. import weakref class C: pass def goodbye(param): print 'Bye.',param x=weakref.ref(C, goodbye) if __name__ == '__main__': print 3+4 print 8+9 If you run this you should see "Bye. " getting printed at the end. The code makes use of the callable option to weak references which would get called just before the weak reference is garbage collected. Here I am forcing the weak reference to remain in the global context by assigning it to x. If you remove the assignment, the call doesn't go through. Don't advise anyone to use this code - it is just to illustrate the one of the ways in which weak references can be used. In general it is better not to rely on the order of gc in your code to implement a feature. - -- Regards, - --Anand - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Software Architect/Consultant anandpillai at letterboxes.org Please note my updated email address . Kindly update your address books. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSLrWVAAoJEMTxYeOp9eaomgEH/j8sJDo9FiZaGYZOpsawrWdZ IFVl/9dB194dVfDIGyIdVINjtZX6frPmdtSIIVV6t6S3wK3CAdlMBzEayJt1hyem GLlg+X0XHdYx0cVbXRzTgHRzlfjErH67Y+zSl2byEMEJAHnSYmE2TiNUrCsSPxei HA2Ff6nNjXopOuJqMwsPwUmbFBAb3VzIWBOnztHPB7+MA/i3pq+Z6XMEufjLhZIP qxKJimvZcPYoo1Egtz+l8tKFw0h4OYygqsJubn6RY2iHcbXpbgVKI02++VubXTGf 0oclxitxIm97oARelJmQ9+C/fDUpDbMe+JZOi+41UY4SQSE3J0xYdEajFc8R0oE= =gL1u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From vinayakh at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 08:04:51 2013 From: vinayakh at gmail.com (Vinayak Hegde) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:34:51 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Anand Chitipothu writes: > > [...] > > > I use it very often. Here is my random-password script. > > [...] > > I use mkpasswd(1) :) > What ever you use, please use py-bcrypt or something similar before you store it in the database. Here is the site with easy usage of it - http://www.mindrot.org/projects/py-bcrypt/ Another on how to use it well and store password in db. http://dustwell.com/how-to-handle-passwords-bcrypt.html -- Vinayak -- Vinayak From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Tue Sep 10 08:05:52 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:35:52 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Should equality (__eq__) be dependent on the typeof object? In-Reply-To: <87txhtw70r.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> (Noufal Ibrahim's message of "Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:30:20 +0530") References: <8738pdxm6l.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87txhtw70r.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <87ob81w6rj.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Noufal Ibrahim writes: > Shabda Raaj writes: > >>> I'd expect it to be False. There will be a small amount of time between >> the two invocations and the time will change >> >> Ok, that makes sense. Should have written a better test case. What about >> this. >> >>>>> datetime.datetime(2013, 1, 1) == datetime.date(2013, 1, 1) >> False >>>>> datetime.datetime.today() == datetime.date.today() >> False > > I think that's reasonable. > > "Today" (10/Sep) is not equal to "right now" (10/Sep, 11:28 am). You'd also get into a 'wat' if 10/Sep 11:30 == 10/Sep and 10/Sep 15:30 == 10/Sep but then, 10/Sep 11:30 != 10/Sep 15:30 Explicit is better than implicit after all. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From anandpillai at letterboxes.org Tue Sep 10 08:08:59 2013 From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:38:59 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <522EB77B.1020807@letterboxes.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 10 September 2013 10:57 AM, Shabda Raaj wrote: >> A variable is either local or global. It is decided at the >> compile time. > > Erm, compile? > > > Python's scoping rules are , erm, interesting: > > http://me.veekun.com/blog/2011/04/24/gotcha-python-scoping-closures/ Another > one. Ability to modify builtin booleans. >>> True,False=False,True True False >>> False True >>> if False: print 'OK' .. OK > > The mnemonic for scoping is LEGB: > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/291978/short-description-of-python-scoping-rules > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > - -- Regards, - --Anand - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Software Architect/Consultant anandpillai at letterboxes.org Please note my updated email address . Kindly update your address books. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSLrd7AAoJEMTxYeOp9eaoA1cIAK1dVtOXXyJICUsaFAiQA6CW 2w4OhQtbhvBvQcO2k39tt5vx8NXmipRmsBHTALKE7LOu/Vdo7Vj3RlkrQTtmJybM i/q4uOLPu8Ubaba2Du4OTmYqSZkxQh/7lNN3pc4aoixygCppgetQbQ/7i5gUeNYK x99RrtYzOn0P+p2JNhGuYZmMAFxkFAkqU9ajfu+0vaOI5ZpbfjqCLUTqZd7rTlfI 36Y451LyeCO+R3D14IIF9G/mRcUOAOPVrh0wcTIuTUtGdgGp8Z2Y8VvDin2n8lZ4 2JMDflfyZziUPFjcqQJCQrGA4I7CbYtHWT4daydn3o7icM9JtFqLAqDJfDnG5ew= =aVB/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From anandpillai at letterboxes.org Tue Sep 10 08:13:58 2013 From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:43:58 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Simulating atexit using weakref (was How to run a block of code just before the interpreter is being exited ...) In-Reply-To: <522EB595.4060000@letterboxes.org> References: <8761uicthg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EB595.4060000@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: <522EB8A6.9050602@letterboxes.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 10 September 2013 11:30 AM, Anand B Pillai wrote: > Don't advise anyone to use this code - it is just to illustrate > the one of the ways in which weak references can be used. In > general it is better not to rely on the order of gc in your code > to implement a feature. Here is the code in pastebin - http://pastebin.com/wmLduVBh > > > _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing > list BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > - -- Regards, - --Anand - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Software Architect/Consultant anandpillai at letterboxes.org Please note my updated email address . Kindly update your address books. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSLrimAAoJEMTxYeOp9eaojpMH/iE3LpuZIXGawjXVssEQCG8N aDhvaylMx4LbwkP1UYIwDaf5k+iVk/uUSIql9V52ZZ7Yj1Nl8b91u1kxIw8TUUDa b/VzdBpJUdH7P7/ZZORq6XPqOrZ7r5s3hWDnmiOnJ09OU4O93vq9ruQdiIvNlTv+ TwNMfG0LJC5P4/3WcMRd17ePNAClevlW8/QQBzLTQLn5HHHkI1Y2yC/gzCRB/aCt eWTzt0khabNZxIGYVhxKTxPr0YMzBoQq8c7Xx/P4VyN+8wzE3hemrtU+h/hv5EZI OTnNphmuSHR6IzaXXowxXR9OeRAxKAmuy3fWgPBo++NI3n4B1/ThrDQ/gx3anTg= =jI8B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jeffjosejeff at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 08:10:12 2013 From: jeffjosejeff at gmail.com (Jeffrey Jose) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:40:12 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Bibhas wrote: > Only the scripts that have been imported somewhere. Right? > Not necessarily - >>> import py_compile >>> py_compile.compile Byte-compile one Python source file to Python bytecode. Arguments: file: source filename cfile: target filename; defaults to source with 'c' or 'o' appended ('c' normally, 'o' in optimizing mode, giving .pyc or .pyo) dfile: purported filename; defaults to source (this is the filename that will show up in error messages) doraise: flag indicating whether or not an exception should be raised when a compile error is found. If an exception occurs and this flag is set to False, a string indicating the nature of the exception will be printed, and the function will return to the caller. If an exception occurs and this flag is set to True, a PyCompileError exception will be raised. Note that it isn't necessary to byte-compile Python modules for execution efficiency -- Python itself byte-compiles a module when it is loaded, and if it can, writes out the bytecode to the corresponding .pyc (or .pyo) file. However, if a Python installation is shared between users, it is a good idea to byte-compile all modules upon installation, since other users may not be able to write in the source directories, and thus they won't be able to write the .pyc/.pyo file, and then they would be byte-compiling every module each time it is loaded. This can slow down program start-up considerably. See compileall.py for a script/module that uses this module to byte-compile all installed files (or all files in selected From me at bibhas.in Tue Sep 10 08:23:53 2013 From: me at bibhas.in (Bibhas) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:53:53 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Of course it is possible to force byte-compile the Python scripts. You can also use 'pycompile' command for that. I meant python by default byte-compiles the scripts that are imported so that they can be imported faster the next time. Jeffrey Jose wrote: >On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Bibhas wrote: > >> Only the scripts that have been imported somewhere. Right? >> > >Not necessarily - > > >>>> import py_compile >>>> py_compile.compile > > Byte-compile one Python source file to Python bytecode. > > Arguments: > > file: source filename > cfile: target filename; defaults to source with 'c' or 'o' appended > ('c' normally, 'o' in optimizing mode, giving .pyc or .pyo) > dfile: purported filename; defaults to source (this is the filename > that will show up in error messages) > doraise: flag indicating whether or not an exception should be > raised when a compile error is found. If an exception > occurs and this flag is set to False, a string > indicating the nature of the exception will be printed, > and the function will return to the caller. If an > exception occurs and this flag is set to True, a > PyCompileError exception will be raised. > > Note that it isn't necessary to byte-compile Python modules for > execution efficiency -- Python itself byte-compiles a module when > it is loaded, and if it can, writes out the bytecode to the > corresponding .pyc (or .pyo) file. > > However, if a Python installation is shared between users, it is a > good idea to byte-compile all modules upon installation, since > other users may not be able to write in the source directories, > and thus they won't be able to write the .pyc/.pyo file, and then > they would be byte-compiling every module each time it is loaded. > This can slow down program start-up considerably. > > See compileall.py for a script/module that uses this module to > byte-compile all installed files (or all files in selected >_______________________________________________ >BangPypers mailing list >BangPypers at python.org >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers -- Thanks Bibhas http://bibhas.in Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From me at bibhas.in Tue Sep 10 08:16:39 2013 From: me at bibhas.in (Bibhas) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:46:39 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s In-Reply-To: <522EB77B.1020807@letterboxes.org> References: <522EB77B.1020807@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: <3a89c38e-837b-4334-9a1f-b19193fc1634@email.android.com> Anand B Pillai wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >On Tuesday 10 September 2013 10:57 AM, Shabda Raaj wrote: >>> A variable is either local or global. It is decided at the >>> compile time. >> >> Erm, compile? >> >> >> Python's scoping rules are , erm, interesting: >> >> http://me.veekun.com/blog/2011/04/24/gotcha-python-scoping-closures/ > >Another >> >one. Ability to modify builtin booleans. > > >>>> True,False=False,True True >False >>>> False >True >>>> if False: print 'OK' >.. >OK > Just adding, it won't work in Python 3.x. >> >> The mnemonic for scoping is LEGB: >> >http://stackoverflow.com/questions/291978/short-description-of-python-scoping-rules >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> > > >- -- >Regards, > >- --Anand > >- >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Software Architect/Consultant >anandpillai at letterboxes.org > >Please note my updated email address . >Kindly update your address books. > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) >Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > >iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSLrd7AAoJEMTxYeOp9eaoA1cIAK1dVtOXXyJICUsaFAiQA6CW >2w4OhQtbhvBvQcO2k39tt5vx8NXmipRmsBHTALKE7LOu/Vdo7Vj3RlkrQTtmJybM >i/q4uOLPu8Ubaba2Du4OTmYqSZkxQh/7lNN3pc4aoixygCppgetQbQ/7i5gUeNYK >x99RrtYzOn0P+p2JNhGuYZmMAFxkFAkqU9ajfu+0vaOI5ZpbfjqCLUTqZd7rTlfI >36Y451LyeCO+R3D14IIF9G/mRcUOAOPVrh0wcTIuTUtGdgGp8Z2Y8VvDin2n8lZ4 >2JMDflfyZziUPFjcqQJCQrGA4I7CbYtHWT4daydn3o7icM9JtFqLAqDJfDnG5ew= >=aVB/ >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >_______________________________________________ >BangPypers mailing list >BangPypers at python.org >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers -- Thanks Bibhas http://bibhas.in Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From shabda at agiliq.com Tue Sep 10 08:26:35 2013 From: shabda at agiliq.com (Shabda Raaj) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:56:35 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Should equality (__eq__) be dependent on the typeof object? In-Reply-To: <87txhtw70r.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <8738pdxm6l.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87txhtw70r.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: See this: In [3]: OrderedDict(a=1) == {"a": 1} Out[3]: True > "Today" (10/Sep) is not equal to "right now" (10/Sep, 11:28 am). > Makes sense no? True, but datetime.date(2013, 1, 1) == datetime.datetime(2013, 1, 1) should still get me true. (The argument being, date.__eq__ should only care about the date components, it shouldn't even care about the time components. However datetime.__eq__ should care about the time components. However you want the __eq__ to be symmetric, so my argument doesn't work) On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Shabda Raaj writes: > > >> I'd expect it to be False. There will be a small amount of time between > > the two invocations and the time will change > > > > Ok, that makes sense. Should have written a better test case. What about > > this. > > > >>>> datetime.datetime(2013, 1, 1) == datetime.date(2013, 1, 1) > > False > >>>> datetime.datetime.today() == datetime.date.today() > > False > > I think that's reasonable. > > "Today" (10/Sep) is not equal to "right now" (10/Sep, 11:28 am). > > Makes sense no? > > However, > > >>> x, y = datetime.datetime(2013, 1, 1), datetime.date(2013, 1, 1) > >>> x.date() == y > True > > which is much more sensible. > > For what it's worth, I think this whole business of dates and times is a > mess. > > > -- > Cordially, > Noufal > http://nibrahim.net.in > -- Thanks, Shabda Agiliq.com - Building Amazing Apps agiliq.com/blog/ | github.com/agiliq US: +13152854388 | IN: +919949997612 | Skype: shabda.raaj Our Android Apps | Our iOS Apps From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Tue Sep 10 08:30:39 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 12:00:39 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Should equality (__eq__) be dependent on the typeof object? In-Reply-To: (Shabda Raaj's message of "Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:56:35 +0530") References: <8738pdxm6l.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87txhtw70r.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <87a9jlw5m8.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Shabda Raaj writes: > See this: > > In [3]: OrderedDict(a=1) == {"a": 1} > Out[3]: True > > >> "Today" (10/Sep) is not equal to "right now" (10/Sep, 11:28 am). > >> Makes sense no? > > True, but datetime.date(2013, 1, 1) == datetime.datetime(2013, 1, 1) > should still get me true. (The argument being, date.__eq__ should > only care about the date components, it shouldn't even care about the > time components. I can see the point in that argument but I don't like it. I'd prefer to "cast" my datetimes into dates if I wanted to check just the date part. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From anandology at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 08:30:51 2013 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 12:00:51 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Bibhas wrote: > > > Anand Chitipothu wrote: > >On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Shabda Raaj > >wrote: > > > >> > A variable is either local or global. It is decided at the compile > >time. > >> > >> Erm, compile? > >> > > > >well, you may call it module/script load time. But python compiles the > >code > >and generates bytecode before executing it. > > > >$ file a.pyc > >a.pyc: python 2.6 byte-compiled > > > > Only the scripts that have been imported somewhere. Right? > No, every source file is compiled before execution. For modules, the compiled output is cached as .pyc file to avoid compiling it on every use. Anand From anandology at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 08:38:05 2013 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 12:08:05 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Simulating atexit using weakref (was How to run a block of code just before the interpreter is being exited ...) In-Reply-To: <522EB8A6.9050602@letterboxes.org> References: <8761uicthg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EB595.4060000@letterboxes.org> <522EB8A6.9050602@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Anand B Pillai < anandpillai at letterboxes.org> wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Tuesday 10 September 2013 11:30 AM, Anand B Pillai wrote: > > > Don't advise anyone to use this code - it is just to illustrate > > the one of the ways in which weak references can be used. In > > general it is better not to rely on the order of gc in your code > > to implement a feature. > > Here is the code in pastebin - http://pastebin.com/wmLduVBh You can also achieve the same using __del__. class Foo: def __del__(self): print "on exit" foo = Foo() if __name__ == '__main__': print 3+4 print 8+9 From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Tue Sep 10 08:43:17 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 12:13:17 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Simulating atexit using weakref (was How to run a block of code just before the interpreter is being exited ...) In-Reply-To: (Anand Chitipothu's message of "Tue, 10 Sep 2013 12:08:05 +0530") References: <8761uicthg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EB595.4060000@letterboxes.org> <522EB8A6.9050602@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: <874n9tw516.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Anand Chitipothu writes: [...] > You can also achieve the same using __del__. > > class Foo: > def __del__(self): > print "on exit" > > foo = Foo() > > if __name__ == '__main__': > print 3+4 > print 8+9 This whole business is kind of surreptitious. The PyODE library had a "world" object which can hold multiple geometries in it. Once you add it to the world, you expect it to keep track of the geometries. However, it doesn't and if the geometry objects go out of scope, it actually removes them from the world messing everything up. To keep them in there, you have to keep some references in Python land to the objects by putting them in a list or something. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From anandology at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 08:48:47 2013 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 12:18:47 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Simulating atexit using weakref (was How to run a block of code just before the interpreter is being exited ...) In-Reply-To: <874n9tw516.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <8761uicthg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EB595.4060000@letterboxes.org> <522EB8A6.9050602@letterboxes.org> <874n9tw516.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > [...] > This whole business is kind of surreptitious. > > The PyODE library had a "world" object which can hold multiple > geometries in it. Once you add it to the world, you expect it to keep > track of the geometries. However, it doesn't and if the geometry objects > go out of scope, it actually removes them from the world messing > everything up. To keep them in there, you have to keep some references > in Python land to the objects by putting them in a list or something. > Isn't that the job of PyODE library to keep track objects in the world by adding them to a list or something? Anand From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Tue Sep 10 09:00:07 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 12:30:07 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Simulating atexit using weakref (was How to run a block of code just before the interpreter is being exited ...) In-Reply-To: (Anand Chitipothu's message of "Tue, 10 Sep 2013 12:18:47 +0530") References: <8761uicthg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EB595.4060000@letterboxes.org> <522EB8A6.9050602@letterboxes.org> <874n9tw516.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <87y575upoo.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Anand Chitipothu writes: [...] > Isn't that the job of PyODE library to keep track objects in the world by > adding them to a list or something? I'd expect so. If I say something like world.add_geometry(obj), it should keep track of it. But for some obscure reason, it didn't. -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From jtoomim at jtoomim.org Tue Sep 10 07:33:14 2013 From: jtoomim at jtoomim.org (Jonathan Toomim) Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 22:33:14 -0700 Subject: [BangPypers] Why PyLadies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <522EAF1A.9080407@jtoomim.org> I can give a few answers for you: 1. The desires of minorities tend to be poorly served in rule-by-majority groups like democracies and anarchic mobs. 2. Being a minority (e.g. woman; expatriate) can be an unpleasant and alienating experience. Humans are social mammals who seek out the company of similar individuals. We have developed the ability to compartmentalize those needs to some extent, and can get by some of the time by associating with people we are compatible on one or two specific or important traits, like occupation/hobby, gender, religion, native language, etc., but this is never as fulfilling as associating with people with whom we are compatible on multiple traits. A guy joining (e.g.) BangPypers gets to hang out with other guys like him; a gal joining BangPypers gets to hang out with guys that might be like her if she weren't a she. 3(a). Guys sometimes make sexual or romantic advances towards women around them. When the gender ratio is heavily unbalanced, this can be a huge problem. If each guy spends 5% of his time talking to and trying to flirt with the girls around him, and there are 20 guys for each girl in a group, then each girl will spend an average of 100% of her time dealing with guys trying to flirt with her (if you interpret multitasking as double-timing, at least). Perhaps you can see how this might be a problem in some circumstances. 3(b). In groups with highly unbalanced gender ratios, the majority gender tends to not get much practice and tends to be pretty awkward in how they make or take the advances. As a female Physics major friend of mine used to say about romantic prospects with her predominantly male classmates, "The odds are good, but the goods are odd." 4. If you want to rectify the gender ratio imbalance, creating an atmosphere that is extra-friendly towards women can be desirable, since it would help counter any cultural prejudices against women entering science or technology fields, and would also help to counter some of the effects described in 1-3. It wouldn't fully counter either of those effects, but it's a start. On 9/8/2013 10:58 AM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ??? wrote: >> before, and I would be interested in your response: >> "What purpose is served by creating a women's group, instead of >> joining the existing group thus making it more diverse?" >> In other words, what purpose is served by intentional segregation? >> > Was this ever answered ? > > -Mandar > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From scorpion032 at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 09:18:49 2013 From: scorpion032 at gmail.com (Lakshman Prasad) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 12:48:49 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: My first random password (until it is replaced with SHA, MD5, bCrypt, whatever): > str(random.random())[2:] '742557965797' On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Vinayak Hegde wrote: > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Noufal Ibrahim >wrote: > > > Anand Chitipothu writes: > > > > [...] > > > > > I use it very often. Here is my random-password script. > > > > [...] > > > > I use mkpasswd(1) :) > > > > What ever you use, please use py-bcrypt or something similar before you > store it in the database. > > Here is the site with easy usage of it - > http://www.mindrot.org/projects/py-bcrypt/ > > Another on how to use it well and store password in db. > http://dustwell.com/how-to-handle-passwords-bcrypt.html > > -- Vinayak > > -- Vinayak > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From mandarvaze at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 11:02:39 2013 From: mandarvaze at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWFuZGFyIFZhemUgLyDgpK7gpILgpKbgpL7gpLAg4KS14KSd4KWH?=) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 14:32:39 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Why PyLadies In-Reply-To: <522EAF1A.9080407@jtoomim.org> References: <522EAF1A.9080407@jtoomim.org> Message-ID: Jonathan, Thanks for the answer. The points you raised make sense for a "support group" (IMO) but not for a technical community (especially mailing list where even your geographical location is immaterial.) *I *couldn't find answer to this question (easily) on http://www.pyladies.com/ either. On a completely unrelated note , here is a (completely imaginary) story for you to ponder .. All the incidents/characters/alphabets in the story are fictitious, any resemblance to real incidents/people is a coincidence - P *asked a question* (albeit in less than politically correct manner) - S and A were offended - they beat up on P till P apologized, twice (first one "conditional" second "unconditional") Several people supported both P and S&A - C sent a private email to S with some (unsolicited, but well meaning) advice *and* asked the *same question again* - S beats up on C publicly about sending private email, but forgot to (chose not to ?) answer the question - J answered the question - S and A (probably) want a good publicity for their cause, yet .. - Neither S and A have *yet *answered the question. -Mandar On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:03 AM, Jonathan Toomim wrote: > I can give a few answers for you: > > 1. The desires of minorities tend to be poorly served in rule-by-majority > groups like democracies and anarchic mobs. > > 2. Being a minority (e.g. woman; expatriate) can be an unpleasant and > alienating experience. Humans are social mammals who seek out the company > of similar individuals. We have developed the ability to compartmentalize > those needs to some extent, and can get by some of the time by associating > with people we are compatible on one or two specific or important traits, > like occupation/hobby, gender, religion, native language, etc., but this is > never as fulfilling as associating with people with whom we are compatible > on multiple traits. A guy joining (e.g.) BangPypers gets to hang out with > other guys like him; a gal joining BangPypers gets to hang out with guys > that might be like her if she weren't a she. > > 3(a). Guys sometimes make sexual or romantic advances towards women around > them. When the gender ratio is heavily unbalanced, this can be a huge > problem. If each guy spends 5% of his time talking to and trying to flirt > with the girls around him, and there are 20 guys for each girl in a group, > then each girl will spend an average of 100% of her time dealing with guys > trying to flirt with her (if you interpret multitasking as double-timing, > at least). Perhaps you can see how this might be a problem in some > circumstances. > > 3(b). In groups with highly unbalanced gender ratios, the majority gender > tends to not get much practice and tends to be pretty awkward in how they > make or take the advances. As a female Physics major friend of mine used to > say about romantic prospects with her predominantly male classmates, "The > odds are good, but the goods are odd." > > 4. If you want to rectify the gender ratio imbalance, creating an > atmosphere that is extra-friendly towards women can be desirable, since it > would help counter any cultural prejudices against women entering science > or technology fields, and would also help to counter some of the effects > described in 1-3. It wouldn't fully counter either of those effects, but > it's a start. > > > On 9/8/2013 10:58 AM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ??? wrote: > >> before, and I would be interested in your response: >>> "What purpose is served by creating a women's group, instead of >>> joining the existing group thus making it more diverse?" >>> In other words, what purpose is served by intentional segregation? >>> >>> Was this ever answered ? >> >> -Mandar >> ______________________________**_________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> >> > ______________________________**_________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From mandarvaze at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 11:11:20 2013 From: mandarvaze at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWFuZGFyIFZhemUgLyDgpK7gpILgpKbgpL7gpLAg4KS14KSd4KWH?=) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 14:41:20 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <87hadtz4b6.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87hadtz4b6.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: Both Shabda and Nouful used the term "prefer" Is there a "best practice" ? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4984647/accessing-dict-keys-like-an-attribute-in-python This guy asked for "pitfalls and caveats" - but no one seem to have addressed the "question" (There are several answers about "How to do it better") -Mandar On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Shabda Raaj writes: > > > > http://code.activestate.com/recipes/52308-the-simple-but-handy-collector-of-a-bunch-of-named/ > > > > With api responses after you have parsed the json, you start doing things > > like: > > > > api_response["attribute"] > > > > I would much prefer to do > > > > api_response.attribute > > I generally like to use attributes instead of keys. One additional > advantage is that I can, if necessary, later convert the attribute into > a property that does more than just return a value. > > [...] > > > -- > Cordially, > Noufal > http://nibrahim.net.in > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From foss.mailinglists at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 11:10:14 2013 From: foss.mailinglists at gmail.com (sankarshan) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 14:40:14 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Why PyLadies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ??? wrote: >> before, and I would be interested in your response: >> "What purpose is served by creating a women's group, instead of >> joining the existing group thus making it more diverse?" >> In other words, what purpose is served by intentional segregation? >> > > Was this ever answered ? Is it very relevant and material to the Bangalore Python Users Group that this question be answered in excruciating detail? If an individual has an affiliation to the idea around which is derived you'd be already aware of the need. It is also possible that individuals feel strongly that this particular approach might not be a viable one. Either way, there is no reason, within the limits of what I can perceive, that the group proposing to form a PyLadies initiative require to justify their existence. The Python space is large enough to include everyone and, welcoming enough to let all approaches do a very good job of attempting to achieve whatever they want to achieve. -- sankarshan mukhopadhyay From anandpillai at letterboxes.org Tue Sep 10 11:18:30 2013 From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 14:48:30 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Why PyLadies In-Reply-To: References: <522EAF1A.9080407@jtoomim.org> Message-ID: <522EE3E6.8@letterboxes.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 10 September 2013 02:32 PM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ??? wrote: > Jonathan, > > Thanks for the answer. The points you raised make sense for a > "support group" (IMO) but not for a technical community (especially > mailing list where even your geographical location is immaterial.) > > *I *couldn't find answer to this question (easily) on > http://www.pyladies.com/ either. > > On a completely unrelated note , here is a (completely imaginary) > story for you to ponder .. All the incidents/characters/alphabets > in the story are fictitious, any resemblance to real > incidents/people is a coincidence > > - P *asked a question* (albeit in less than politically correct > manner) - S and A were offended - they beat up on P till P > apologized, twice (first one "conditional" second "unconditional") > Several people supported both P and S&A - C sent a private email to > S with some (unsolicited, but well meaning) advice *and* asked the > *same question again* - S beats up on C publicly about sending > private email, but forgot to (chose not to ?) answer the question - > J answered the question - S and A (probably) want a good publicity > for their cause, yet .. - Neither S and A have *yet *answered the > question. This is kind of continuing the original thread's context in disguise. Let us have healthy discussions fresh, so request to not post further on rekindling a closed thread. Please co-operate. If you really have to talk about it, keep your conversations private. - -- Regards, - --Anand - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Software Architect/Consultant anandpillai at letterboxes.org Please note my updated email address . Kindly update your address books. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSLuPmAAoJEMTxYeOp9eaoEP0H/inH23eAIAdgdIe3Y8mtk6Ni kbnoclByNeTiKHMZHUV9WTRUcTKmY/vdE1bwnt9dnNZlC4VjGQbQZ7Oz6tkUQAvd a5nJERoqUP9HlwKG66z1hdPxoZwFCgQtQ7MVH4rhz3+ohuTIPVcmZTZEITzO4xch v4By2RKO1+UmQ53HT2d0qkkIYg3kiqyxM7kNv+JErWOCC1tGFvU8vfEEpFtSwLrz eMC7Ae//u4LoKYrWhmAh6Em4YMClnX98KShQbb05AxXMzBUHdhxrvnAkZjLpGG6Q XBQ9t7WuQsxRQjA/SIeAjw345qjMEHme4p7rwec1J2OP8PiG6wnNO42YhRVQGkI= =cNT0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mandarvaze at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 11:21:18 2013 From: mandarvaze at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWFuZGFyIFZhemUgLyDgpK7gpILgpKbgpL7gpLAg4KS14KSd4KWH?=) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 14:51:18 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Why PyLadies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 2:40 PM, sankarshan wrote: > On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ??? > wrote: > >> before, and I would be interested in your response: > >> "What purpose is served by creating a women's group, instead of > >> joining the existing group thus making it more diverse?" > >> In other words, what purpose is served by intentional segregation? > >> > > > > Was this ever answered ? > > Is it very relevant and material to the Bangalore Python Users Group > that this question be answered in excruciating detail? Not really. But when there are several emails being sent about it, may be it is "sensible" things to do ? > existence. The Python space is large enough to include everyone and, > welcoming enough to let all approaches do a very good job of > Don't "including" and "welcoming" go against "separate" ? -Mandar From mandarvaze at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 11:22:25 2013 From: mandarvaze at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWFuZGFyIFZhemUgLyDgpK7gpILgpKbgpL7gpLAg4KS14KSd4KWH?=) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 14:52:25 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Why PyLadies In-Reply-To: <522EE3E6.8@letterboxes.org> References: <522EAF1A.9080407@jtoomim.org> <522EE3E6.8@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: > Please co-operate. If you really have to talk about it, keep your > conversations private. > Some people object to "private" discussions :) -Mandar From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Tue Sep 10 11:24:54 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 14:54:54 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Why PyLadies In-Reply-To: <522EE3E6.8@letterboxes.org> (Anand B. Pillai's message of "Tue, 10 Sep 2013 14:48:30 +0530") References: <522EAF1A.9080407@jtoomim.org> <522EE3E6.8@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: <87bo41uizd.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Anand B Pillai writes: [...] > This is kind of continuing the original thread's context in disguise. > > Let us have healthy discussions fresh, so request to not post further > on rekindling a closed thread. > > Please co-operate. If you really have to talk about it, keep your > conversations private. [...] +2 (this is rather strong for me since Anand has repeatedly pointed out his annoyance at my +0s) The hatchet has been buried. Let's move on. -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From me at bibhas.in Tue Sep 10 11:37:51 2013 From: me at bibhas.in (Me@Bibhas) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:07:51 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <522EE86F.90608@bibhas.in> This thread is awesome. Keep them coming. :) I've also been using random string generator Shabda posted for a long time. Handy. On Tuesday 10 September 2013 12:48 PM, Lakshman Prasad wrote: > My first random password (until it is replaced with SHA, MD5, bCrypt, > whatever): > >> str(random.random())[2:] > '742557965797' > > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Vinayak Hegde wrote: > >> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Noufal Ibrahim >> wrote: >>> Anand Chitipothu writes: >>> >>> [...] >>> >>>> I use it very often. Here is my random-password script. >>> [...] >>> >>> I use mkpasswd(1) :) >>> >> What ever you use, please use py-bcrypt or something similar before you >> store it in the database. >> >> Here is the site with easy usage of it - >> http://www.mindrot.org/projects/py-bcrypt/ >> >> Another on how to use it well and store password in db. >> http://dustwell.com/how-to-handle-passwords-bcrypt.html >> >> -- Vinayak >> >> -- Vinayak >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From me at bibhas.in Tue Sep 10 11:49:26 2013 From: me at bibhas.in (Me@Bibhas) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:19:26 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <522EEB26.3020607@bibhas.in> Don't know if I can call it a snippet, But this command on terminal - $ python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080 is really handy for sharing files(along with the use of `localtunnel` maybe) and testing HTML/CSS. On Tuesday 10 September 2013 12:48 PM, Lakshman Prasad wrote: > My first random password (until it is replaced with SHA, MD5, bCrypt, > whatever): > >> str(random.random())[2:] > '742557965797' > > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Vinayak Hegde wrote: > >> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Noufal Ibrahim >> wrote: >>> Anand Chitipothu writes: >>> >>> [...] >>> >>>> I use it very often. Here is my random-password script. >>> [...] >>> >>> I use mkpasswd(1) :) >>> >> What ever you use, please use py-bcrypt or something similar before you >> store it in the database. >> >> Here is the site with easy usage of it - >> http://www.mindrot.org/projects/py-bcrypt/ >> >> Another on how to use it well and store password in db. >> http://dustwell.com/how-to-handle-passwords-bcrypt.html >> >> -- Vinayak >> >> -- Vinayak >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Tue Sep 10 11:58:31 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:28:31 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <522EEB26.3020607@bibhas.in> (me@bibhas.in's message of "Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:19:26 +0530") References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EEB26.3020607@bibhas.in> Message-ID: <87y575t2uw.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> "Me at Bibhas" writes: > Don't know if I can call it a snippet, But this command on terminal - > > $ python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080 Similar but less well known. Command line ftp client (similar to ftp(1)) python -m ftplib ftp.gnu.org Command line mail client (similar to mail(1)) but needs a local MTA running python -m smtplib Command line IMAP client (similar mutt -f imap://...) python -m imaplib -d5 noufal at imap.gmail.com Command line POP client python -m poplib pop.gmail.com There are probably others too. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From anandpillai at letterboxes.org Tue Sep 10 11:58:49 2013 From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:28:49 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <522EE86F.90608@bibhas.in> References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EE86F.90608@bibhas.in> Message-ID: <522EED59.20000@letterboxes.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 10 September 2013 03:07 PM, Me at Bibhas wrote: > This thread is awesome. Keep them coming. :) > > I've also been using random string generator Shabda posted for a > long time. Handy. > > On Tuesday 10 September 2013 12:48 PM, Lakshman Prasad wrote: >> My first random password (until it is replaced with SHA, MD5, >> bCrypt, whatever): >> >>> str(random.random())[2:] >> '742557965797' Also, >>> import uuid uuid.uuid4().bytes.encode('base64')[:12] 'XH4yYJA7SxSd' uuid1..3 are not cryptographically strong as they are linked to the machine but uuid4 generates a random, cryptographically secure uuid. >> >> >> Regards, - --Anand - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Software Architect/Consultant anandpillai at letterboxes.org Please note my updated email address . Kindly update your address books. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSLu1ZAAoJEMTxYeOp9eaoJcYIAMxqHSNKm1rD4oDj9Y5sSEGw mPuIelLcJGjB/qx2i6+SMB6dMQbofFV3k3YPlkwibDvkcQABbDl2Uxxo5BIVWXHB ntH6ecQXGGw+YKOEoeBTq0s/Sv9rAsUtudO1q9/ylnKYpDgfG9sNjCwmhY9uB9iM 63mjsAoHOaJlNi6aQiBX+ceKqO38F9N13o/z63IKETWmc7efEthKWTG1HVRAhzXX ICUaAiBvHFj0s2cOyZXmkIWkjwMPlbLyFLu7pyFeUMx5hb5SVoZkbCJF/lu943OM nXTxQWz0N/zT6VMZVPHTTl98vXOb9esXqJD8+CeivhhgYKagR2xaXHcxbEKvE84= =T5RJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From anandpillai at letterboxes.org Tue Sep 10 12:06:06 2013 From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:36:06 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <87y575t2uw.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EEB26.3020607@bibhas.in> <87y575t2uw.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <522EEF0E.6070508@letterboxes.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 10 September 2013 03:28 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > "Me at Bibhas" writes: > >> Don't know if I can call it a snippet, But this command on >> terminal - >> >> $ python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080 > > Similar but less well known. > > Command line ftp client (similar to ftp(1)) python -m ftplib > ftp.gnu.org > > Command line mail client (similar to mail(1)) but needs a local > MTA running python -m smtplib > > Command line IMAP client (similar mutt -f imap://...) python -m > imaplib -d5 noufal at imap.gmail.com > > Command line POP client python -m poplib pop.gmail.com > > There are probably others too. > $ python -m webbrowser -t http://www.python.org > > [...] > > - -- Regards, - --Anand - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Software Architect/Consultant anandpillai at letterboxes.org Please note my updated email address . Kindly update your address books. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSLu8OAAoJEMTxYeOp9eaoLWgH/1EInQZDF8aqfDxiWzYICv+M 82UH8FHCOTZjtj9KLfKtguc4da95bopJZyTSA+24aHKMKfdk082drLULgp6AiUT4 FwSFESwmHhTmiLQwLSI22nFb/NLnl7XaGX33Png+zBhN3fZDSEt23YCOx00MXKTO Lkb2q8g2oFcB8CisGQ0gIDr/oPzskhe8DffHV8eo7+7T/EDBv6mHoiT1MmLOQqJu uD0NbHL9RNMsi3I70cvAnHFkjLo9cVqMWnDQlN1x9KnCQMdJJ5n2JsNRn1cdG12i A1jw0D93mDeA6GmV+5cAQ8ZhBnHkuyAlnJWBHDB18y/Nn8khw6d/weFkjldegNM= =+nso -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From a.koppad at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 12:05:58 2013 From: a.koppad at gmail.com (Annapoornima Koppad) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:35:58 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Why PyLadies In-Reply-To: <87bo41uizd.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <522EAF1A.9080407@jtoomim.org> <522EE3E6.8@letterboxes.org> <87bo41uizd.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: Thanks Jonathan, Sankarshan for your support. I prefer to work than argue with some people. I do not want to carry this thread forward. Warm regards, Anu On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Anand B Pillai writes: > > > [...] > > > This is kind of continuing the original thread's context in disguise. > > > > Let us have healthy discussions fresh, so request to not post further > > on rekindling a closed thread. > > > > Please co-operate. If you really have to talk about it, keep your > > conversations private. > > [...] > > +2 (this is rather strong for me since Anand has repeatedly pointed out > his annoyance at my +0s) > > The hatchet has been buried. Let's move on. > > -- > Cordially, > Noufal > http://nibrahim.net.in > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From vjagannath09 at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 12:06:50 2013 From: vjagannath09 at gmail.com (Vaikuntham Jagannath) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 18:06:50 +0800 Subject: [BangPypers] Help Required with understanding Python Import Message-ID: Hi, I am trying to dynamically import classes & create instances of those classes. Can you suggest me some examples & links. Regards, Jagan From modi.konark at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 12:09:42 2013 From: modi.konark at gmail.com (konark modi) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:39:42 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Help Required with understanding Python Import In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jagan, This should be of your interest : http://pyvideo.org/video/1707/how-import-works Regards Konark On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Vaikuntham Jagannath < vjagannath09 at gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I am trying to dynamically import classes & create instances of those > classes. > > Can you suggest me some examples & links. > > Regards, > Jagan > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From naikvin at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 12:09:44 2013 From: naikvin at gmail.com (Vineet Naik) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:39:44 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <87y575t2uw.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EEB26.3020607@bibhas.in> <87y575t2uw.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: Command line json formatter $ echo '{"name": "Bangpypers", "location": "Bangalore"}' | python -m json.tool On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > "Me at Bibhas" writes: > > > Don't know if I can call it a snippet, But this command on terminal - > > > > $ python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080 > > Similar but less well known. > > Command line ftp client (similar to ftp(1)) > python -m ftplib ftp.gnu.org > > Command line mail client (similar to mail(1)) but needs a local MTA > running > python -m smtplib > > Command line IMAP client (similar mutt -f imap://...) > python -m imaplib -d5 noufal at imap.gmail.com > > Command line POP client > python -m poplib pop.gmail.com > > There are probably others too. > > > [...] > > > -- > Cordially, > Noufal > http://nibrahim.net.in > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Vineet Naik From shabda at agiliq.com Tue Sep 10 12:10:26 2013 From: shabda at agiliq.com (Shabda Raaj) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:40:26 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: Another tip: Its common to write decorators which clober the docstring and other meta data. If you use functools.wrap this metadata is preserved. http://docs.python.org/2/library/functools.html https://github.com/django/django/blob/master/django/contrib/auth/decorators.py#L19 On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Lakshman Prasad wrote: > My first random password (until it is replaced with SHA, MD5, bCrypt, > whatever): > > > str(random.random())[2:] > '742557965797' > > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Vinayak Hegde wrote: > >> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Noufal Ibrahim > >wrote: >> >> > Anand Chitipothu writes: >> > >> > [...] >> > >> > > I use it very often. Here is my random-password script. >> > >> > [...] >> > >> > I use mkpasswd(1) :) >> > >> >> What ever you use, please use py-bcrypt or something similar before you >> store it in the database. >> >> Here is the site with easy usage of it - >> http://www.mindrot.org/projects/py-bcrypt/ >> >> Another on how to use it well and store password in db. >> http://dustwell.com/how-to-handle-passwords-bcrypt.html >> >> -- Vinayak >> >> -- Vinayak >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> > > -- Thanks, Shabda Agiliq.com - Building Amazing Apps agiliq.com/blog/ | github.com/agiliq US: +13152854388 | IN: +919949997612 | Skype: shabda.raaj Our Android Apps | Our iOS Apps From hussainbohra at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 12:11:57 2013 From: hussainbohra at gmail.com (HUSSAIN BOHRA) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:41:57 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Help Required with understanding Python Import In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You can probably have a look in the below link - http://docs.python.org/2/library/functions.html#__import__ On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Vaikuntham Jagannath < vjagannath09 at gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I am trying to dynamically import classes & create instances of those > classes. > > Can you suggest me some examples & links. > > Regards, > Jagan > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Hussain Bohra Technical Lead Tavant Technologies Koramangala, Bangalore-95 mailto: hussain.bohra at tavant.com mobile: +91 99867 95727 From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 12:15:45 2013 From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:45:45 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87hadtz4b6.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: Not all keys in the dictionary can be expressed as attributes. Attributes has to follow the naming conventions. I had problems with user generated 'keys', JSON supported keys. On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ??? < mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote: > Both Shabda and Nouful used the term "prefer" > Is there a "best practice" ? > > > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4984647/accessing-dict-keys-like-an-attribute-in-python > > This guy asked for "pitfalls and caveats" - but no one seem to have > addressed the "question" (There are several answers about "How to do it > better") > > -Mandar > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Noufal Ibrahim >wrote: > > > Shabda Raaj writes: > > > > > > > > http://code.activestate.com/recipes/52308-the-simple-but-handy-collector-of-a-bunch-of-named/ > > > > > > With api responses after you have parsed the json, you start doing > things > > > like: > > > > > > api_response["attribute"] > > > > > > I would much prefer to do > > > > > > api_response.attribute > > > > I generally like to use attributes instead of keys. One additional > > advantage is that I can, if necessary, later convert the attribute into > > a property that does more than just return a value. > > > > [...] > > > > > > -- > > Cordially, > > Noufal > > http://nibrahim.net.in > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From me at bibhas.in Tue Sep 10 12:22:39 2013 From: me at bibhas.in (Me@Bibhas) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:52:39 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <87hadtz4b6.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87hadtz4b6.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <522EF2EF.6060603@bibhas.in> What would happen for a dictionary like this? >>> d = {'1': 'foo', 1: 'bar'} >>> d {'1': 'foo', 1: 'bar'} On Tuesday 10 September 2013 10:00 AM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Shabda Raaj writes: > >> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/52308-the-simple-but-handy-collector-of-a-bunch-of-named/ >> >> With api responses after you have parsed the json, you start doing things >> like: >> >> api_response["attribute"] >> >> I would much prefer to do >> >> api_response.attribute > I generally like to use attributes instead of keys. One additional > advantage is that I can, if necessary, later convert the attribute into > a property that does more than just return a value. > > [...] > > From lifeofnavin at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 12:36:05 2013 From: lifeofnavin at gmail.com (Navin Pai) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:06:05 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:39:44 +0530 > From: Vineet Naik > To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India > Message-ID: > G1u3Z80zGnT6Cg3LEnRSbZ7A at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Command line json formatter > $ echo '{"name": "Bangpypers", "location": "Bangalore"}' | python -m > json.tool > > Just to add, this works great in Vim too :) Just use :%!python -m json.tool to get formatted JSON output -- Navin Pai http://lifeofnav.in From sajuptpm at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 12:46:17 2013 From: sajuptpm at gmail.com (Saju M) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:16:17 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EEB26.3020607@bibhas.in> <87y575t2uw.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: echo '{"name": "Bangpypers", "location": "Bangalore"}' | python -m json.tool In this command, what is this "json.tool" ? I could not find "tool" in dir(json) >>> import json >>> dir(json) ['JSONDecoder', 'JSONEncoder', '__all__', '__author__', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__package__', '__path__', '__version__', '_default_decoder', '_default_encoder', 'decoder', 'dump', 'dumps', 'encoder', 'load', 'loads', 'scanner'] Regards Saju Madhavan +91 09535134654 On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Vineet Naik wrote: > Command line json formatter > $ echo '{"name": "Bangpypers", "location": "Bangalore"}' | python -m > json.tool > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Noufal Ibrahim >wrote: > > > "Me at Bibhas" writes: > > > > > Don't know if I can call it a snippet, But this command on terminal - > > > > > > $ python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080 > > > > Similar but less well known. > > > > Command line ftp client (similar to ftp(1)) > > python -m ftplib ftp.gnu.org > > > > Command line mail client (similar to mail(1)) but needs a local MTA > > running > > python -m smtplib > > > > Command line IMAP client (similar mutt -f imap://...) > > python -m imaplib -d5 noufal at imap.gmail.com > > > > Command line POP client > > python -m poplib pop.gmail.com > > > > There are probably others too. > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > -- > > Cordially, > > Noufal > > http://nibrahim.net.in > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > -- > Vineet Naik > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From jeffjosejeff at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 12:42:45 2013 From: jeffjosejeff at gmail.com (Jeffrey Jose) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:12:45 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <522EF2EF.6060603@bibhas.in> References: <87hadtz4b6.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EF2EF.6060603@bibhas.in> Message-ID: I've always found attribute access of dictionary a bit weird, and too much Javascript-y. The latter by itself doesnt make it bad .. but something I dont prefer generally. And yes, property access wont work for keys that start with numbers. (Same in JS) -jeff On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Me at Bibhas wrote: > What would happen for a dictionary like this? > > >>> d = {'1': 'foo', 1: 'bar'} > >>> d > {'1': 'foo', 1: 'bar'} > > > On Tuesday 10 September 2013 10:00 AM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > > Shabda Raaj writes: > > > >> > http://code.activestate.com/recipes/52308-the-simple-but-handy-collector-of-a-bunch-of-named/ > >> > >> With api responses after you have parsed the json, you start doing > things > >> like: > >> > >> api_response["attribute"] > >> > >> I would much prefer to do > >> > >> api_response.attribute > > I generally like to use attributes instead of keys. One additional > > advantage is that I can, if necessary, later convert the attribute into > > a property that does more than just return a value. > > > > [...] > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Tue Sep 10 12:51:25 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:21:25 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: (Saju M.'s message of "Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:16:17 +0530") References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EEB26.3020607@bibhas.in> <87y575t2uw.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <87r4cxt0eq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Saju M writes: > echo '{"name": "Bangpypers", "location": "Bangalore"}' | python -m json.tool > > In this command, what is this "json.tool" ? > > I could not find "tool" in dir(json) > >>>> import json >>>> dir(json) > ['JSONDecoder', 'JSONEncoder', '__all__', '__author__', '__builtins__', > '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__package__', '__path__', > '__version__', '_default_decoder', '_default_encoder', 'decoder', 'dump', > 'dumps', 'encoder', 'load', 'loads', 'scanner'] It needn't be. >>> from json import tool >>> tool.__file__ '/usr/lib/python2.7/json/tool.pyc' >>> json is a package and tool is one of the modules inside that. To get to this, I have a little shell function that I stole from Anand that has been super useful repeatedly. epy () { cmd="import $1 as a ; print a.__file__.endswith('.pyc') and a.__file__[:-1] or a.__file__" file=$(/usr/bin/env python -c $cmd) echo $file emacsclient --no-wait $file } If you want to read the source for the json module, just do $ epy json and the json module is loaded into Emacs. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From naikvin at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 12:51:57 2013 From: naikvin at gmail.com (Vineet Naik) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:21:57 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EEB26.3020607@bibhas.in> <87y575t2uw.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 4:16 PM, Saju M wrote: > echo '{"name": "Bangpypers", "location": "Bangalore"}' | python -m > json.tool > > In this command, what is this "json.tool" ? > > I could not find "tool" in dir(json) > > >>> import json > >>> dir(json) > ['JSONDecoder', 'JSONEncoder', '__all__', '__author__', '__builtins__', > '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__package__', '__path__', > '__version__', '_default_decoder', '_default_encoder', 'decoder', 'dump', > 'dumps', 'encoder', 'load', 'loads', 'scanner'] > > It's a module by itself. Located at /usr/lib/python2.7/json/tool.py on my machine > > > Regards > Saju Madhavan > +91 09535134654 > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Vineet Naik wrote: > > > Command line json formatter > > $ echo '{"name": "Bangpypers", "location": "Bangalore"}' | python -m > > json.tool > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Noufal Ibrahim > >wrote: > > > > > "Me at Bibhas" writes: > > > > > > > Don't know if I can call it a snippet, But this command on terminal - > > > > > > > > $ python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080 > > > > > > Similar but less well known. > > > > > > Command line ftp client (similar to ftp(1)) > > > python -m ftplib ftp.gnu.org > > > > > > Command line mail client (similar to mail(1)) but needs a local MTA > > > running > > > python -m smtplib > > > > > > Command line IMAP client (similar mutt -f imap://...) > > > python -m imaplib -d5 noufal at imap.gmail.com > > > > > > Command line POP client > > > python -m poplib pop.gmail.com > > > > > > There are probably others too. > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Cordially, > > > Noufal > > > http://nibrahim.net.in > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BangPypers mailing list > > > BangPypers at python.org > > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Vineet Naik > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Vineet Naik From me at bibhas.in Tue Sep 10 12:52:26 2013 From: me at bibhas.in (BibhasD) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:22:26 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EEB26.3020607@bibhas.in> <87y575t2uw.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <522EF9EA.5080005@bibhas.in> On Tuesday 10 September 2013 04:16 PM, Saju M wrote: > echo '{"name": "Bangpypers", "location": "Bangalore"}' | python -m json.tool > > In this command, what is this "json.tool" ? > > I could not find "tool" in dir(json) > >>>> import json >>>> dir(json) > ['JSONDecoder', 'JSONEncoder', '__all__', '__author__', '__builtins__', > '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__package__', '__path__', > '__version__', '_default_decoder', '_default_encoder', 'decoder', 'dump', > 'dumps', 'encoder', 'load', 'loads', 'scanner'] import json.tool print json.tool.__doc__ Command-line tool to validate and pretty-print JSON Usage:: $ echo '{"json":"obj"}' | python -m json.tool { "json": "obj" } $ echo '{ 1.2:3.4}' | python -m json.tool Expecting property name enclosed in double quotes: line 1 column 3 (char 2) > > > Regards > Saju Madhavan > +91 09535134654 > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Vineet Naik wrote: > >> Command line json formatter >> $ echo '{"name": "Bangpypers", "location": "Bangalore"}' | python -m >> json.tool >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Noufal Ibrahim >> wrote: >>> "Me at Bibhas" writes: >>> >>>> Don't know if I can call it a snippet, But this command on terminal - >>>> >>>> $ python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080 >>> Similar but less well known. >>> >>> Command line ftp client (similar to ftp(1)) >>> python -m ftplib ftp.gnu.org >>> >>> Command line mail client (similar to mail(1)) but needs a local MTA >>> running >>> python -m smtplib >>> >>> Command line IMAP client (similar mutt -f imap://...) >>> python -m imaplib -d5 noufal at imap.gmail.com >>> >>> Command line POP client >>> python -m poplib pop.gmail.com >>> >>> There are probably others too. >>> >>> >>> [...] >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Cordially, >>> Noufal >>> http://nibrahim.net.in >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BangPypers mailing list >>> BangPypers at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >>> >> >> >> -- >> Vineet Naik >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From naikvin at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 13:02:11 2013 From: naikvin at gmail.com (Vineet Naik) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:32:11 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <87r4cxt0eq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EEB26.3020607@bibhas.in> <87y575t2uw.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87r4cxt0eq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Saju M writes: > > > echo '{"name": "Bangpypers", "location": "Bangalore"}' | python -m > json.tool > > > > In this command, what is this "json.tool" ? > > > > I could not find "tool" in dir(json) > > > >>>> import json > >>>> dir(json) > > ['JSONDecoder', 'JSONEncoder', '__all__', '__author__', '__builtins__', > > '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__package__', '__path__', > > '__version__', '_default_decoder', '_default_encoder', 'decoder', 'dump', > > 'dumps', 'encoder', 'load', 'loads', 'scanner'] > > It needn't be. > >>> from json import tool > >>> tool.__file__ > '/usr/lib/python2.7/json/tool.pyc' > >>> > > json is a package and tool is one of the modules inside that. > > To get to this, I have a little shell function that I stole from Anand > that has > been super useful repeatedly. > > epy () { > cmd="import $1 as a ; print a.__file__.endswith('.pyc') and > a.__file__[:-1] or a.__file__" > file=$(/usr/bin/env python -c $cmd) > echo $file > emacsclient --no-wait $file > } > > If you want to read the source for the json module, just do > > $ epy json > > and the json module is loaded into Emacs. > If you are using jedi[1] with auto-complete in emacs, C-. takes you to the definition by opening the module file in a write protected buffer. I use jedi mainly for this feature and inline documentation popout rather than for autocomplete :-) [1] https://github.com/tkf/emacs-jedi > > > [...] > > > -- > Cordially, > Noufal > http://nibrahim.net.in > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Vineet Naik From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Tue Sep 10 13:03:28 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:33:28 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: (Vineet Naik's message of "Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:32:11 +0530") References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EEB26.3020607@bibhas.in> <87y575t2uw.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87r4cxt0eq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <87li35szun.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Vineet Naik writes: [...] > If you are using jedi[1] with auto-complete in emacs, C-. takes you to > the definition by opening the module file in a write protected > buffer. I use jedi mainly for this feature and inline documentation > popout rather than for autocomplete :-) [...] I'll check it out. Thanks! -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From sajuptpm at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 13:18:24 2013 From: sajuptpm at gmail.com (Saju M) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:48:24 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <87r4cxt0eq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EEB26.3020607@bibhas.in> <87y575t2uw.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87r4cxt0eq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: Hi, I have couple of doubts * How do you find "json" has module named "tool" ?. * Why dir(json) not showing "tool" ?? >>> import json >>> dir(json) ['JSONDecoder', 'JSONEncoder', '__all__', '__author__', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__package__', '__path__', '__version__', '_default_decoder', '_default_encoder', 'decoder', 'dump', 'dumps', 'encoder', 'load', 'loads', 'scanner'] >>> * How to list all modules of a package in python console ?. * Is this what you guys are using to check modules of a package ?. ls /usr/lib/python2.7/json/ | grep .py$ decoder.py encoder.py __init__.py scanner.py tool.py Regards Saju Madhavan +91 09535134654 On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Saju M writes: > > > echo '{"name": "Bangpypers", "location": "Bangalore"}' | python -m > json.tool > > > > In this command, what is this "json.tool" ? > > > > I could not find "tool" in dir(json) > > > >>>> import json > >>>> dir(json) > > ['JSONDecoder', 'JSONEncoder', '__all__', '__author__', '__builtins__', > > '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__package__', '__path__', > > '__version__', '_default_decoder', '_default_encoder', 'decoder', 'dump', > > 'dumps', 'encoder', 'load', 'loads', 'scanner'] > > It needn't be. > >>> from json import tool > >>> tool.__file__ > '/usr/lib/python2.7/json/tool.pyc' > >>> > > json is a package and tool is one of the modules inside that. > > To get to this, I have a little shell function that I stole from Anand > that has > been super useful repeatedly. > > epy () { > cmd="import $1 as a ; print a.__file__.endswith('.pyc') and > a.__file__[:-1] or a.__file__" > file=$(/usr/bin/env python -c $cmd) > echo $file > emacsclient --no-wait $file > } > > If you want to read the source for the json module, just do > > $ epy json > > and the json module is loaded into Emacs. > > > [...] > > > -- > Cordially, > Noufal > http://nibrahim.net.in > From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Tue Sep 10 13:24:55 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:54:55 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: (Saju M.'s message of "Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:48:24 +0530") References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EEB26.3020607@bibhas.in> <87y575t2uw.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87r4cxt0eq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <87d2ogudfc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Saju M writes: > Hi, > I have couple of doubts > > > * How do you find "json" has module named "tool" ?. I look at the code/docs. > > > * Why dir(json) not showing "tool" ?? Because of the __all__ variable in the module. http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/modules.html >>>> import json >>>> dir(json) > ['JSONDecoder', 'JSONEncoder', '__all__', '__author__', '__builtins__', > '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__package__', '__path__', > '__version__', '_default_decoder', '_default_encoder', 'decoder', 'dump', > 'dumps', 'encoder', 'load', 'loads', 'scanner'] >>>> > > > * How to list all modules of a package in python console ?. I don't think that's possible. If you import a package, only what the __init__.py in the package decides to show you is available directly. > * Is this what you guys are using to check modules of a package ?. Sort of. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From naikvin at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 13:36:58 2013 From: naikvin at gmail.com (Vineet Naik) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 17:06:58 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EEB26.3020607@bibhas.in> <87y575t2uw.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87r4cxt0eq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Saju M wrote: > Hi, > I have couple of doubts > > > * How do you find "json" has module named "tool" ?. > > > * Why dir(json) not showing "tool" ?? > > >>> import json > >>> dir(json) > ['JSONDecoder', 'JSONEncoder', '__all__', '__author__', '__builtins__', > '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__package__', '__path__', > '__version__', '_default_decoder', '_default_encoder', 'decoder', 'dump', > 'dumps', 'encoder', 'load', 'loads', 'scanner'] > >>> > > > * How to list all modules of a package in python console ?. > > > * Is this what you guys are using to check modules of a package ?. > > ls /usr/lib/python2.7/json/ | grep .py$ > decoder.py > encoder.py > __init__.py > scanner.py > tool.py > Don't know how to get all modules of a package as a list but if you just need to refer to the package contents, then pydoc gives this info. eg. run, $ pydoc json and then search for the section titled "PACKAGE CONTENTS" and you can find tool listed there along with the other modules in the package. > > Regards > Saju Madhavan > +91 09535134654 > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Noufal Ibrahim >wrote: > > > Saju M writes: > > > > > echo '{"name": "Bangpypers", "location": "Bangalore"}' | python -m > > json.tool > > > > > > In this command, what is this "json.tool" ? > > > > > > I could not find "tool" in dir(json) > > > > > >>>> import json > > >>>> dir(json) > > > ['JSONDecoder', 'JSONEncoder', '__all__', '__author__', '__builtins__', > > > '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__package__', '__path__', > > > '__version__', '_default_decoder', '_default_encoder', 'decoder', > 'dump', > > > 'dumps', 'encoder', 'load', 'loads', 'scanner'] > > > > It needn't be. > > >>> from json import tool > > >>> tool.__file__ > > '/usr/lib/python2.7/json/tool.pyc' > > >>> > > > > json is a package and tool is one of the modules inside that. > > > > To get to this, I have a little shell function that I stole from Anand > > that has > > been super useful repeatedly. > > > > epy () { > > cmd="import $1 as a ; print a.__file__.endswith('.pyc') and > > a.__file__[:-1] or a.__file__" > > file=$(/usr/bin/env python -c $cmd) > > echo $file > > emacsclient --no-wait $file > > } > > > > If you want to read the source for the json module, just do > > > > $ epy json > > > > and the json module is loaded into Emacs. > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > -- > > Cordially, > > Noufal > > http://nibrahim.net.in > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Vineet Naik From anandology at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 13:49:55 2013 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 17:19:55 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EEB26.3020607@bibhas.in> <87y575t2uw.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87r4cxt0eq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: Another utility script that I use very heavily, pyvi. https://github.com/anandology/hacks/blob/master/pyvi $ pyvi json.tool That opens json.tool module (or any other module) in vim. It also changes the current dir to that module directory so that you can easily open other modules in the same package very easily. You can press :e to see all available modules. :e deco will expand it to :e decoder.py and so on. I find this very hard for reading code when documentation is not enough. Noufal has an emacs port of this script. Anand From kracethekingmaker at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 14:20:51 2013 From: kracethekingmaker at gmail.com (kracekumar ramaraju) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 17:50:51 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EEB26.3020607@bibhas.in> <87y575t2uw.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87r4cxt0eq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: I personally like to use IPython. To see all variables, constants, modules. n [9]: import requests In [10]: requests. requests.ConnectionError requests.api requests.models requests.HTTPError requests.auth requests.options requests.NullHandler requests.certs requests.packages requests.PreparedRequest requests.codes requests.patch requests.Request requests.compat requests.post requests.RequestException requests.cookies requests.put requests.Response requests.delete requests.request requests.Session requests.exceptions requests.session requests.Timeout requests.get requests.sessions requests.TooManyRedirects requests.head requests.status_codes requests.URLRequired requests.hooks requests.structures requests.adapters requests.logging requests.utils Now to read about `Session` In [10]: requests.Session? Type: type String Form: File: /Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/requests/sessions.py Docstring: A Requests session. Provides cookie persistience, connection-pooling, and configuration. Basic Usage:: >>> import requests >>> s = requests.Session() >>> s.get('http://httpbin.org/get') 200 Constructor information: Definition:requests.Session(self) Now to open the file. In [12]: !/Applications/Sublime\ Text\ 2.app/Contents/SharedSupport/bin/subl /Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/requests/sessions.py & Note: IPython can't open alias so I dint use subl How to read source code inside IPython ? In [13]: requests.Session?? Type: type String Form: File: /Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/requests/sessions.py Source: class Session(SessionRedirectMixin): """A Requests session. Provides cookie persistience, connection-pooling, and configuration. Basic Usage:: >>> import requests >>> s = requests.Session() >>> s.get('http://httpbin.org/get') 200 """ .... On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Anand Chitipothu wrote: > Another utility script that I use very heavily, pyvi. > > https://github.com/anandology/hacks/blob/master/pyvi > > $ pyvi json.tool > > That opens json.tool module (or any other module) in vim. It also changes > the current dir to that module directory so that you can easily open other > modules in the same package very easily. > > You can press :e to see all available modules. :e deco will > expand it to :e decoder.py and so on. > > I find this very hard for reading code when documentation is not enough. > Noufal has an emacs port of this script. > > Anand > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- * Thanks & Regards "Talk is cheap, show me the code" -- Linus Torvalds kracekumar www.kracekumar.com * From gnuyoga at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 15:29:31 2013 From: gnuyoga at gmail.com (Sreekandh Balakrishnan) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 18:59:31 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <522EE86F.90608@bibhas.in> References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EE86F.90608@bibhas.in> Message-ID: > This thread is awesome. Keep them coming. :) Prettyprint comes very handy when it comes to object debugging. Use it in my logger method always ;) http://docs.python.org/2/library/pprint.html From maniandram01 at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 15:36:58 2013 From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 19:06:58 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: Obligatory comic: https://xkcd.com/936/ On 10 September 2013 10:42, Anand Chitipothu wrote: > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Shabda Raaj wrote: > > > > https://github.com/webpy/webpy/blob/master/web/utils.py#L52 > > > > Wow, thats better than the "bare" bunch impl. Gonna use it now. > > > > Unrelated tip: > > > > Here is a one liner I use to generate passwords and other random strings. > > > > ''.join(random.choice(string.ascii_uppercase + string.digits) for x in > > range(N)) > > > > I use it very often. Here is my random-password script. > > $ cat ~/bin/random-password > #! /usr/bin/env python > > import random > import sys > import string > > try: > n = int(sys.argv[1]) > except IndexError: > n = 20 > > print("".join(random.choice(string.ascii_letters) for i in range(n))) > > Anand > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From shabda at agiliq.com Tue Sep 10 15:53:30 2013 From: shabda at agiliq.com (Shabda Raaj) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 19:23:30 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: > I personally like to use IPython. > To see all variables, constants, modules. Ipython is amazing. To see a library code, I jsut tab-out lib_name.__file__ and then !vim paste_the_file_path Going to add something like anand's pyvi to ipy_user_conf.py. Ipython with treat anything after bang(!) as a shell command to never felt the need till now. Related: You can get a ipython shell within your django runserver's from IPython.Shell import IPShellEmbed ipython = IPShellEmbed() http://agiliq.com/blog/2009/12/using-bpython-shell-with-django-and-some-ipython-f/ I also like to debug with ipdb (rather than the pdb). Add this to your Django views. import ipdb; ipdb.set_trace() and debug away. From c2inomaha at yahoo.com Tue Sep 10 16:28:09 2013 From: c2inomaha at yahoo.com (CsquaredinOmaha) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 07:28:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <522EE86F.90608@bibhas.in> References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EE86F.90608@bibhas.in> Message-ID: <1378823289.70547.YahooMailNeo@web163604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Bibhas, Glad you are pleased. I started the thread in consideration of ?your comment that list had not enough interesting being posted. Again, it is ok to start threads yourself (so keep something to throw out there maybe when current flurry slows down and the list needs some fresh discussion). Regards, Chris ________________________________ From: "Me at Bibhas" To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 4:37 AM Subject: Re: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques This thread is awesome. Keep them coming. :) I've also been using random string generator Shabda posted for a long time. Handy. On Tuesday 10 September 2013 12:48 PM, Lakshman Prasad wrote: > My first random password (until it is replaced with SHA, MD5, bCrypt, > whatever): > >> str(random.random())[2:] > '742557965797' > > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Vinayak Hegde wrote: > >> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Noufal Ibrahim >> wrote: >>> Anand Chitipothu writes: >>> >>> [...] >>> >>>> I use it very often. Here is my random-password script. >>> [...] >>> >>> I use mkpasswd(1) :) >>> >> What ever you use, please use py-bcrypt or something similar before you >> store it in the database. >> >> Here is the site with easy usage of it - >> http://www.mindrot.org/projects/py-bcrypt/ >> >> Another on how to use it well and store password in db. >> http://dustwell.com/how-to-handle-passwords-bcrypt.html >> >> -- Vinayak >> >> -- Vinayak >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 17:12:29 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 20:42:29 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <522EF2EF.6060603@bibhas.in> References: <87hadtz4b6.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EF2EF.6060603@bibhas.in> Message-ID: Ignoring classes for the moment, how likely do you think you would have a dict like that :) On a separate note if you are using primitive types, I cannot think of any scenarios, where not coercing keys to be of the same type would be considered inappropriate (except in case of reverse dicts) On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Me at Bibhas wrote: > What would happen for a dictionary like this? > >>>> d = {'1': 'foo', 1: 'bar'} >>>> d > {'1': 'foo', 1: 'bar'} > > > On Tuesday 10 September 2013 10:00 AM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: >> Shabda Raaj writes: >> >>> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/52308-the-simple-but-handy-collector-of-a-bunch-of-named/ >>> >>> With api responses after you have parsed the json, you start doing things >>> like: >>> >>> api_response["attribute"] >>> >>> I would much prefer to do >>> >>> api_response.attribute >> I generally like to use attributes instead of keys. One additional >> advantage is that I can, if necessary, later convert the attribute into >> a property that does more than just return a value. >> >> [...] >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene google plus: http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene From me at bibhas.in Tue Sep 10 17:18:28 2013 From: me at bibhas.in (BibhasD) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 20:48:28 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87hadtz4b6.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EF2EF.6060603@bibhas.in> Message-ID: <522F3844.3070800@bibhas.in> I'm just curious. I faced a similar issue before while answering a question about Django on StackOverflow. Django turns context variable dictionaries into objects with attributes in template. So in one question in SO someone posted this question. Had to answer that Django doesn't really support distinguishing such keys. So when I saw the same thing discussed, thought of throwing it out here. :) On Tuesday 10 September 2013 08:42 PM, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > Ignoring classes for the moment, how likely do you think you would > have a dict like that :) > > On a separate note if you are using primitive types, I cannot think of > any scenarios, where not coercing keys to be of the same type would be > considered inappropriate (except in case of reverse dicts) > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Me at Bibhas wrote: >> What would happen for a dictionary like this? >> >>>>> d = {'1': 'foo', 1: 'bar'} >>>>> d >> {'1': 'foo', 1: 'bar'} >> >> >> On Tuesday 10 September 2013 10:00 AM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: >>> Shabda Raaj writes: >>> >>>> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/52308-the-simple-but-handy-collector-of-a-bunch-of-named/ >>>> >>>> With api responses after you have parsed the json, you start doing things >>>> like: >>>> >>>> api_response["attribute"] >>>> >>>> I would much prefer to do >>>> >>>> api_response.attribute >>> I generally like to use attributes instead of keys. One additional >>> advantage is that I can, if necessary, later convert the attribute into >>> a property that does more than just return a value. >>> >>> [...] >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 18:29:12 2013 From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 21:59:12 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <522F3844.3070800@bibhas.in> References: <87hadtz4b6.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EF2EF.6060603@bibhas.in> <522F3844.3070800@bibhas.in> Message-ID: Attributes are stylish, readable, feel native as object compared to dictionary. Sometimes I use setter methods to override the default assignments, modify getter to format the values and getter for virtual attributes for DSL stuffs. class DictObj(dict): def __getattr__(self, key): if key.startswith("has_"): arr = key.split("_") return arr[1] in self return self[key] def __setattr__(self, key, value): self[key] = value od = DictObj() od.name = "Nila" print ("Has Name? ", od.has_name) print ("Has Age? ", od.has_age) We have this sort of implementation for functional test verification. We are into Industrial Automation, we deal with measurement devices like flow, pressure, density, etc. Each device has got 100+ attributes like tag, address, current value, calibration etc. Injecting 'has' and 'is' helps test engineers write unit test based on device property itself. if (device.is_calibration_running): # here calibration_running is a value read from the device or cached and is is applied for dynamic conditions. ... Although it seems like magic, but certainly not a black magic, we have control over there. Python must have got similar stuff like dynamic function hooks, we could done still better. But we are missing. On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 8:48 PM, BibhasD wrote: > I'm just curious. I faced a similar issue before while answering a > question about Django on StackOverflow. Django turns context variable > dictionaries into objects with attributes in template. So in one > question in SO someone posted this question. Had to answer that Django > doesn't really support distinguishing such keys. So when I saw the same > thing discussed, thought of throwing it out here. :) > > On Tuesday 10 September 2013 08:42 PM, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > > Ignoring classes for the moment, how likely do you think you would > > have a dict like that :) > > > > On a separate note if you are using primitive types, I cannot think of > > any scenarios, where not coercing keys to be of the same type would be > > considered inappropriate (except in case of reverse dicts) > > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Me at Bibhas wrote: > >> What would happen for a dictionary like this? > >> > >>>>> d = {'1': 'foo', 1: 'bar'} > >>>>> d > >> {'1': 'foo', 1: 'bar'} > >> > >> > >> On Tuesday 10 September 2013 10:00 AM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > >>> Shabda Raaj writes: > >>> > >>>> > http://code.activestate.com/recipes/52308-the-simple-but-handy-collector-of-a-bunch-of-named/ > >>>> > >>>> With api responses after you have parsed the json, you start doing > things > >>>> like: > >>>> > >>>> api_response["attribute"] > >>>> > >>>> I would much prefer to do > >>>> > >>>> api_response.attribute > >>> I generally like to use attributes instead of keys. One additional > >>> advantage is that I can, if necessary, later convert the attribute into > >>> a property that does more than just return a value. > >>> > >>> [...] > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> BangPypers mailing list > >> BangPypers at python.org > >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 18:53:09 2013 From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 22:23:09 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We must be thankful for the people who invented the keyboard and stopped with single SPACE and TAB keys for column indentation. Every time you edit, mind compile the Python code on production critical time, there could be a landmine hidden in the white space on nano or remote vi. On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Shabda Raaj wrote: > This is a popular talk on quircks of ruby/js > > https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat > > What are the quircks/unexpected behavior you find in Python? (Aka Python > "wats"). > > -- > Thanks, > Shabda > > Agiliq.com - Building Amazing Apps > agiliq.com/blog/ | github.com/agiliq > US: +13152854388 | IN: +919949997612 | Skype: shabda.raaj > Our Android Apps > | Our > iOS Apps > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From a.koppad at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 19:32:05 2013 From: a.koppad at gmail.com (Annapoornima Koppad) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 23:02:05 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [Cross post Pyladies Blore]Online mentoring sessions with Kenneth Love Message-ID: Dear All, Kenneth Love has agreed to hold a mentoring sessions for Pyladies Bangalore. Before I talk about the sessions, I would like to introduce y'all to Kenneth Love. He is a self taught programmer who learnt a lot of things on his own. More importantly, he is a Django guru. Read more about him on his website, http://gigantuan.net/ Based on what I have seen so far of this group(Pyladies Bangalore), the ladies and men on this group are relatively new to Python and are keen on learning Python. So, I think its a good idea to understand people's need and what they want from mentoring. So Kenneth created a google document so that people can start filling in their questions. The idea is to understand what people want and start have mentoring sessions based on those. The link is here, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xUjSuRlWhWAbIxpRJ9I2yMlpS4_oMgXM262kZFLYCog/edit#heading=h.6bdu1j7mu62o. Please fill in you questions. As for the mentoring sessions, we are at Indian standard time (12.5 hours before Kenneth) and he is on the PST(US West Coast). So we need to decide on the time we would like him to hold sessions for us. I would like to arrive at a consensus for that. Please pitch in a time for that is comfortable for you. I will wait for sometime before I decide on the time. I will say this once again, you are free to ask any question. No question is stupid. Please do not end up trolling each other. I would like to thank Kenneth Love to have agreed to mentor Pyladies Bangalore. Warm regards, Annapoornima From vinayakh at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 21:17:14 2013 From: vinayakh at gmail.com (Vinayak Hegde) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 00:47:14 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [Cross post Pyladies Blore]Online mentoring sessions with Kenneth Love In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:02 PM, Annapoornima Koppad wrote: > Dear All, > > Kenneth Love has agreed to hold a mentoring sessions for Pyladies > Bangalore. > > As for the mentoring sessions, we are at Indian standard time (12.5 hours > before Kenneth) and he is on the PST(US West Coast). So we need to decide > on the time we would like him to hold sessions for us. I would like to > arrive at a consensus for that. Please pitch in a time for that is > comfortable for you. I will wait for sometime before I decide on the time. > First of all great initiative. When I have to schedule meeting across time zones, the best way to schedule meetings is to use Doodle (http://doodle.com. Choose a bunch of dates / times and add them to doodle. Then post the link here and allow people to vote. Mailing lists are bad for voting as it leads to a lot of +1 replies and it quickly becomes spammy and hard to keep track of who did +1 for what. check out doodle, it is really useful for such things. -- Vinayak From supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com Wed Sep 11 12:37:25 2013 From: supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com (s|s) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 16:07:25 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87hadtz4b6.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EF2EF.6060603@bibhas.in> <522F3844.3070800@bibhas.in> Message-ID: This use case where one needs to keep related values together as logical group: Properties, getattr, setattr are quite interesting option but I prefer collections.namedtuple Example EmployeeRecord = namedtuple('EmployeeRecord', 'name, age, title, department, paygrade') import csvfor emp in map(EmployeeRecord._make, csv.reader(open("employees.csv", "rb"))): print emp.name, emp.title import sqlite3conn = sqlite3.connect('/companydata')cursor = conn.cursor()cursor.execute('SELECT name, age, title, department, paygrade FROM employees')for emp in map(EmployeeRecord._make, cursor.fetchall()): print emp.name, emp.title My contribution to bag of tricks On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 9:59 PM, Gopalakrishnan Subramani < gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com> wrote: > Attributes are stylish, readable, feel native as object compared to > dictionary. Sometimes I use setter methods to override the default > assignments, modify getter to format the values and getter for virtual > attributes for DSL stuffs. > > > class DictObj(dict): > def __getattr__(self, key): > if key.startswith("has_"): > arr = key.split("_") > return arr[1] in self > > return self[key] > > def __setattr__(self, key, value): > self[key] = value > > > od = DictObj() > > od.name = "Nila" > > print ("Has Name? ", od.has_name) > print ("Has Age? ", od.has_age) > > We have this sort of implementation for functional test verification. We > are into Industrial Automation, we deal with measurement devices like flow, > pressure, density, etc. Each device has got 100+ attributes like tag, > address, current value, calibration etc. > > Injecting 'has' and 'is' helps test engineers write unit test based on > device property itself. > > if (device.is_calibration_running): # here calibration_running is a value > read from the device or cached and is is applied for dynamic conditions. > ... > > Although it seems like magic, but certainly not a black magic, we have > control over there. > > Python must have got similar stuff like dynamic function hooks, we could > done still better. But we are missing. > > > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 8:48 PM, BibhasD wrote: > > > I'm just curious. I faced a similar issue before while answering a > > question about Django on StackOverflow. Django turns context variable > > dictionaries into objects with attributes in template. So in one > > question in SO someone posted this question. Had to answer that Django > > doesn't really support distinguishing such keys. So when I saw the same > > thing discussed, thought of throwing it out here. :) > > > > On Tuesday 10 September 2013 08:42 PM, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > > > Ignoring classes for the moment, how likely do you think you would > > > have a dict like that :) > > > > > > On a separate note if you are using primitive types, I cannot think of > > > any scenarios, where not coercing keys to be of the same type would be > > > considered inappropriate (except in case of reverse dicts) > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Me at Bibhas wrote: > > >> What would happen for a dictionary like this? > > >> > > >>>>> d = {'1': 'foo', 1: 'bar'} > > >>>>> d > > >> {'1': 'foo', 1: 'bar'} > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tuesday 10 September 2013 10:00 AM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > > >>> Shabda Raaj writes: > > >>> > > >>>> > > > http://code.activestate.com/recipes/52308-the-simple-but-handy-collector-of-a-bunch-of-named/ > > >>>> > > >>>> With api responses after you have parsed the json, you start doing > > things > > >>>> like: > > >>>> > > >>>> api_response["attribute"] > > >>>> > > >>>> I would much prefer to do > > >>>> > > >>>> api_response.attribute > > >>> I generally like to use attributes instead of keys. One additional > > >>> advantage is that I can, if necessary, later convert the attribute > into > > >>> a property that does more than just return a value. > > >>> > > >>> [...] > > >>> > > >>> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> BangPypers mailing list > > >> BangPypers at python.org > > >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Supreet Sethi Ph UK: +447859172473 Ph IN: +919811143517 Ph Skype: d_j_i_n_n Profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/supreet.sethi Twt: http://twitter.com/djinn From anandology at gmail.com Wed Sep 11 13:25:41 2013 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 16:55:41 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87hadtz4b6.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EF2EF.6060603@bibhas.in> <522F3844.3070800@bibhas.in> Message-ID: Another script I use often is repr. https://github.com/anandology/hacks/blob/master/repr It reads each line from stdin and prints it as python repr. Useful to see hidden/non-alphanumeric characters. $ echo -e "a\bc" c $ echo -e "a\bc" | repr a\x08c\n This is similar to od, but od prints fixed number of characters in each line and sometimes you want to see the lines without breaking. Couple of hours back, I noticed an issue with a row in a mysql dump, and here is how I used it to inspect at that row. $ head -28130 my-table.txt | tail -1 | repr 2006-05-25 00:19:12\t\t1900-01-01 00:00:00\t0000\tMetal1\t Anand From supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com Wed Sep 11 14:07:30 2013 From: supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com (s|s) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 17:37:30 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87hadtz4b6.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EF2EF.6060603@bibhas.in> <522F3844.3070800@bibhas.in> Message-ID: There are times when the project requires a large blob of data which needs to be loaded with the python code. A general practice is to use pickle and json object which is opened using file functions etc. I tend to convert this kind of data (depending on size) into python file using pprint and store it as code included using python standard coding convention. Saves hassle of packaging and caring about path convention. Of course it is not correct convention for all situations. On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Anand Chitipothu wrote: > Another script I use often is repr. > > https://github.com/anandology/hacks/blob/master/repr > > It reads each line from stdin and prints it as python repr. Useful to see > hidden/non-alphanumeric characters. > > $ echo -e "a\bc" > c > $ echo -e "a\bc" | repr > a\x08c\n > > This is similar to od, but od prints fixed number of characters in each > line and sometimes you want to see the lines without breaking. > > Couple of hours back, I noticed an issue with a row in a mysql dump, and > here is how I used it to inspect at that row. > > $ head -28130 my-table.txt | tail -1 | repr > 2006-05-25 00:19:12\t\t1900-01-01 00:00:00\t0000\tMetal1\t > > Anand > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Supreet Sethi Ph UK: +447859172473 Ph IN: +919811143517 Ph Skype: d_j_i_n_n Profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/supreet.sethi Twt: http://twitter.com/djinn From amit.pureenergy at gmail.com Wed Sep 11 15:20:35 2013 From: amit.pureenergy at gmail.com (Amit Sethi) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 18:50:35 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87hadtz4b6.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EF2EF.6060603@bibhas.in> <522F3844.3070800@bibhas.in> Message-ID: 1. I do like the accessing dict attributes as keys and specifically where they make more sense as structure by itselfI do use class ABC(object): a = '' def __init__(self, **kwargs): self.__dict__.update(**kwargs) 2. When creating a dictionary of constants create it dynamically and independently on an interpreter and then use pprint and use copy it in my code On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 5:37 PM, s|s wrote: > There are times when the project requires a large blob of data which needs > to be loaded with the python code. A general practice is to use pickle and > json object which is opened using file functions etc. > > I tend to convert this kind of data (depending on size) into python file > using pprint and store it as code included using python standard coding > convention. Saves hassle of packaging and caring about path convention. Of > course it is not correct convention for all situations. > > > On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Anand Chitipothu >wrote: > > > Another script I use often is repr. > > > > https://github.com/anandology/hacks/blob/master/repr > > > > It reads each line from stdin and prints it as python repr. Useful to see > > hidden/non-alphanumeric characters. > > > > $ echo -e "a\bc" > > c > > $ echo -e "a\bc" | repr > > a\x08c\n > > > > This is similar to od, but od prints fixed number of characters in each > > line and sometimes you want to see the lines without breaking. > > > > Couple of hours back, I noticed an issue with a row in a mysql dump, and > > here is how I used it to inspect at that row. > > > > $ head -28130 my-table.txt | tail -1 | repr > > 2006-05-25 00:19:12\t\t1900-01-01 00:00:00\t0000\tMetal1\t > > > > Anand > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > -- > Supreet Sethi > Ph UK: +447859172473 > Ph IN: +919811143517 > Ph Skype: d_j_i_n_n > Profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/supreet.sethi > Twt: http://twitter.com/djinn > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- A-M-I-T S|S From ashish.makani at gmail.com Wed Sep 11 16:46:18 2013 From: ashish.makani at gmail.com (ashish makani) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 20:16:18 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s Message-ID: Found this quick, nifty way to determine the ip address of the machine your py script is running on import commands commands.getoutput("/sbin/ifconfig").split("\n")[1].split()[1][5:] ( via http://stackoverflow.com/a/3177266/559456 ) cheers ashish *The only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven?t found it yet, keep looking. Don?t settle. As with all matters of the heart, you?ll know when you find it.? - Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011)* On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Gopalakrishnan Subramani < gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com> wrote: > We must be thankful for the people who invented the keyboard and stopped > with single SPACE and TAB keys for column indentation. > > Every time you edit, mind compile the Python code on production critical > time, there could be a landmine hidden in the white space on nano or remote > vi. > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Shabda Raaj wrote: > > > This is a popular talk on quircks of ruby/js > > > > https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat > > > > What are the quircks/unexpected behavior you find in Python? (Aka Python > > "wats"). > > > > -- > > Thanks, > > Shabda > > > > Agiliq.com - Building Amazing Apps > > agiliq.com/blog/ | github.com/agiliq > > US: +13152854388 | IN: +919949997612 | Skype: shabda.raaj > > Our Android Apps > > > | Our > > iOS Apps > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From pranjal.mittal.ece10 at iitbhu.ac.in Wed Sep 11 17:12:01 2013 From: pranjal.mittal.ece10 at iitbhu.ac.in (Pranjal Mittal) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 20:42:01 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here you go- import socket socket.gethostbyaddr(socket.gethostname())[2] On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 8:16 PM, ashish makani wrote: > Found this quick, nifty way to determine the ip address of the machine your > py script is running on > > import commands > commands.getoutput("/sbin/ifconfig").split("\n")[1].split()[1][5:] > > ( via http://stackoverflow.com/a/3177266/559456 ) > > cheers > ashish > > *The only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven?t found > it yet, keep looking. Don?t settle. As with all matters of the heart, > you?ll know when you find it.? - Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011)* > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Gopalakrishnan Subramani < > gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com> wrote: > > > We must be thankful for the people who invented the keyboard and stopped > > with single SPACE and TAB keys for column indentation. > > > > Every time you edit, mind compile the Python code on production critical > > time, there could be a landmine hidden in the white space on nano or > remote > > vi. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Shabda Raaj wrote: > > > > > This is a popular talk on quircks of ruby/js > > > > > > https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat > > > > > > What are the quircks/unexpected behavior you find in Python? (Aka > Python > > > "wats"). > > > > > > -- > > > Thanks, > > > Shabda > > > > > > Agiliq.com - Building Amazing Apps > > > agiliq.com/blog/ | github.com/agiliq > > > US: +13152854388 | IN: +919949997612 | Skype: shabda.raaj > > > Our Android Apps < > https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Agiliq > > > > > > | Our > > > iOS Apps > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BangPypers mailing list > > > BangPypers at python.org > > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- -- B.Tech. 2014 Indian Institute of Technology, BHU, Varanasi, 221005 Uttar Pradesh, India From vardhanvarma at gmail.com Wed Sep 11 17:32:47 2013 From: vardhanvarma at gmail.com (Vardhan Varma) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 21:02:47 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 8:42 PM, Pranjal Mittal < pranjal.mittal.ece10 at iitbhu.ac.in> wrote: > Here you go- > > import socket > socket.gethostbyaddr(socket.gethostname())[2] > > > On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 8:16 PM, ashish makani >wrote: > > > Found this quick, nifty way to determine the ip address of the machine > your > > py script is running on > > > > import commands > > commands.getoutput("/sbin/ifconfig").split("\n")[1].split()[1][5:] > > Several machines have multiple IP addresses, and 0x7f000001 is least interesting one.. On most modern linux distros, 'hostname -I' also works. >>> commands.getoutput('hostname -I').split() ['192.168.1.120', '11.22.103.1'] From jeffjosejeff at gmail.com Wed Sep 11 18:13:18 2013 From: jeffjosejeff at gmail.com (Jeffrey Jose) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 21:43:18 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 9:02 PM, Vardhan Varma wrote: > On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 8:42 PM, Pranjal Mittal < > pranjal.mittal.ece10 at iitbhu.ac.in> wrote: > > > Here you go- > > > > import socket > > socket.gethostbyaddr(socket.gethostname())[2] > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 8:16 PM, ashish makani > >wrote: > > > > > Found this quick, nifty way to determine the ip address of the machine > > your > > > py script is running on > > > > > > import commands > > > commands.getoutput("/sbin/ifconfig").split("\n")[1].split()[1][5:] > > > > > Several machines have multiple IP addresses, and 0x7f000001 is least > interesting one.. > On most modern linux distros, 'hostname -I' also works. > > >>> commands.getoutput('hostname -I').split() > ['192.168.1.120', '11.22.103.1'] > Hows this different better than socket.gethostbyaddr? I dont have a machine with multiple IPs, doesnt this work there? I come from a place where you use *batteries* as much as possible, and where shelling out is the last resort. > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Wed Sep 11 19:18:16 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 22:48:16 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s In-Reply-To: (Jeffrey Jose's message of "Wed, 11 Sep 2013 21:43:18 +0530") References: Message-ID: <8761u7jmzr.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Jeffrey Jose writes: [...] > I come from a place where you use *batteries* as much as possible, and > where shelling out is the last resort. [...] I think so too. Perl programmers are much more comfortable with the whole qx business than Python programmers are with os and subprocess. -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From vnbang2003 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 12 07:38:22 2013 From: vnbang2003 at yahoo.com (vijay) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 13:38:22 +0800 (SGT) Subject: [BangPypers] Volunteer for Conduct Basic Python workshop at GEC Hassan on 21st of Sept Message-ID: <1378964302.21928.YahooMailNeo@web192206.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Hi, ? ? We need volunteer to conduct Basic Python workshop at Govt Engineering college , Hassan on Sept 21st? ? ? Expected Student Strength : ?60. ? ? Travel and Food expense will be taken care by college. With Thanks Vijay From shabda at agiliq.com Thu Sep 12 14:07:33 2013 From: shabda at agiliq.com (Shabda Raaj) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 17:37:33 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? Message-ID: Curious how many people are doing/not doing it. (We pin our requirements.txt). -- Thanks, Shabda Agiliq.com - Building Amazing Apps agiliq.com/blog/ | github.com/agiliq US: +13152854388 | IN: +919949997612 | Skype: shabda.raaj Our Android Apps | Our iOS Apps From b.ghose at gmail.com Thu Sep 12 14:11:34 2013 From: b.ghose at gmail.com (Baishampayan Ghose) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 17:41:34 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What do you mean by "pin"? ~BG On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Shabda Raaj wrote: > Curious how many people are doing/not doing it. > > (We pin our requirements.txt). > > -- > Thanks, > Shabda > > Agiliq.com - Building Amazing Apps > agiliq.com/blog/ | github.com/agiliq > US: +13152854388 | IN: +919949997612 | Skype: shabda.raaj > Our Android Apps | Our > iOS Apps > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers -- Baishampayan Ghose b.ghose at gmail.com From me at bibhas.in Thu Sep 12 14:15:44 2013 From: me at bibhas.in (BibhasD) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 17:45:44 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> Quick googling suggests pinning = specifying versions. I do it. I think that makes more sense if you're depending on 3rd party packages. -- Bibhas On Thursday 12 September 2013 05:41 PM, Baishampayan Ghose wrote: > What do you mean by "pin"? ~BG > > On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Shabda Raaj > wrote: >> Curious how many people are doing/not doing it. >> >> (We pin our requirements.txt). >> >> -- Thanks, Shabda >> >> Agiliq.com - Building Amazing Apps agiliq.com/blog/ | >> github.com/agiliq US: +13152854388 | IN: +919949997612 | Skype: >> shabda.raaj Our Android Apps >> | Our iOS >> Apps >> _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing >> list BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > From naikvin at gmail.com Thu Sep 12 14:20:27 2013 From: naikvin at gmail.com (Vineet Naik) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 17:50:27 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> Message-ID: I always pin requirements. Here is a related article on the topic - http://nvie.com/posts/pin-your-packages/ On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 5:45 PM, BibhasD wrote: > Quick googling suggests pinning = specifying versions. > > I do it. I think that makes more sense if you're depending on 3rd party > packages. > > -- > Bibhas > > On Thursday 12 September 2013 05:41 PM, Baishampayan Ghose wrote: > > What do you mean by "pin"? ~BG > > > > On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Shabda Raaj > > wrote: > >> Curious how many people are doing/not doing it. > >> > >> (We pin our requirements.txt). > >> > >> -- Thanks, Shabda > >> > >> Agiliq.com - Building Amazing Apps agiliq.com/blog/ | > >> github.com/agiliq US: +13152854388 | IN: +919949997612 | Skype: > >> shabda.raaj Our Android Apps > >> | Our iOS > >> Apps > >> _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing > >> list BangPypers at python.org > >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Vineet Naik From aditya at thinrhino.net.in Thu Sep 12 14:46:51 2013 From: aditya at thinrhino.net.in (Aditya Laghate) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 18:16:51 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> Message-ID: <20130912124651.GA1632@TR.local> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 05:50:27PM +0530, Vineet Naik wrote: > I always pin requirements. Here is a related article on the topic - > http://nvie.com/posts/pin-your-packages/ Interesting blog link. I did like the idea of using '==' instead of '>=' From abdulmuneer at gmail.com Thu Sep 12 15:00:19 2013 From: abdulmuneer at gmail.com (Abdul Muneer) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 18:30:19 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: <20130912124651.GA1632@TR.local> References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <20130912124651.GA1632@TR.local> Message-ID: I also pin requirements. But when I do 'pip freeze', I remove the packages that are installed as a dependency to main libraries which were explicitly installed. Packages from pypi may specify dependency as ">=" and it will fetch the latest. But if you had pinned those too, it can cause conflicts especially if you upgrade the main component. Had run into issues because of this while working on a pylons project. Regards, Abdul Muneer -- Follow me on Twitter: @abdulmuneer On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Aditya Laghate wrote: > On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 05:50:27PM +0530, Vineet Naik wrote: > > I always pin requirements. Here is a related article on the topic - > > http://nvie.com/posts/pin-your-packages/ > > Interesting blog link. > > I did like the idea of using '==' instead of '>=' > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From shabda at agiliq.com Thu Sep 12 19:52:04 2013 From: shabda at agiliq.com (Shabda Raaj) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 23:22:04 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s Message-ID: > whole qx business than Python programmers are with os and subprocess. That because subprocess and os module have a very bad api. I prefer using envoy whenevr I can. https://github.com/kennethreitz/envoy -- Thanks, Shabda Agiliq.com - Building Amazing Apps agiliq.com/blog/ | github.com/agiliq US: +13152854388 | IN: +919949997612 | Skype: shabda.raaj Our Android Apps | Our iOS Apps From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Thu Sep 12 20:01:17 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 23:31:17 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] How to run a block of code just before the interpreter is being exited like END{} in perl ?? In-Reply-To: <522DD2CF.5030005@letterboxes.org> References: <5224EDBD.1030000@letterboxes.org> <522DD2CF.5030005@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 7:23 PM, Anand B Pillai wrote: > [...] > > I gave that example as it was given in the Python documentation > for atexit module. > > http://docs.python.org/2/library/atexit.html#module-atexit Wow, hadn't noticed that the example was in the docs. Still, doesn't make too much sense to me. That said, idioms in Python have always been a bit of a mystery to me... - d From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Thu Sep 12 20:29:15 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 23:59:15 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Shabda Raaj wrote: > This is a popular talk on quircks of ruby/js > > https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat > > What are the quircks/unexpected behavior you find in Python? (Aka Python > "wats"). > Wait a second... wasn't there a talk about just this captioned Python, the weird bits at last years PyCon India? Oh right, I delivered it! :P Here's my repo from which I demo'd the 'wat' code. Also linked were my notesthat include more weird bits that I couldn't fit into the talk for lack of time & contrived examples. HTH -d From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Thu Sep 12 21:03:08 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 00:33:08 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: <20130912124651.GA1632@TR.local> References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <20130912124651.GA1632@TR.local> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Aditya Laghate wrote: > On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 05:50:27PM +0530, Vineet Naik wrote: > > I always pin requirements. Here is a related article on the topic - > > http://nvie.com/posts/pin-your-packages/ > > Interesting blog link. > > I did like the idea of using '==' instead of '>=' IMHO, it's (almost) always a good idea to pin to specific version, i.e. == However, contrary to the advice in the post, pessimistic versioning (Foo >= 1.0 <2.0) is a good idea if you know for sure that Foo adheres to semantic versioning . Just saying... - d From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Thu Sep 12 21:08:13 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 00:38:13 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <20130912124651.GA1632@TR.local> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Abdul Muneer wrote: > I also pin requirements. But when I do 'pip freeze', I remove the packages > that are installed as a dependency to main libraries which were explicitly > installed. > I tend to avoid using 'pip freeze' as part of my dev flow for just this reason. YMMV, but it just adds busywork; easier to hand maintain a list of pinned top-level packages. As for (optimistically or pessimistically) pinned dependencies, I usually pin them on a case-by-case basis. Packages from pypi may specify dependency as ">=" and it will fetch the > latest. But if you had pinned those too, it can cause conflicts especially > if you upgrade the main component. Had run into issues because of this > while working on a pylons project. > Ditto. Except I recall hitting this when we were moving to py3k and one of the 'newer' packages of a dependency of something we were depending on added code that was beyond 2to3's capability. :P - d From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Thu Sep 12 21:11:07 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 00:41:07 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Help Required with understanding Python Import In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 3:39 PM, konark modi wrote: > Hi Jagan, > > This should be of your interest : > http://pyvideo.org/video/1707/how-import-works Jagan, This makes for an interesting read too => http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2009/7/24/singletons-and-their-problems-in-python/ - d From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Thu Sep 12 21:42:16 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 01:12:16 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Shabda Raaj wrote: > > https://github.com/webpy/webpy/blob/master/web/utils.py#L52 > > Wow, thats better than the "bare" bunch impl. Gonna use it now. It's just soooo much nicer when the map/dict in your platform just does that for you :) - d From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Thu Sep 12 22:02:11 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 01:32:11 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <87d2ogudfc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EEB26.3020607@bibhas.in> <87y575t2uw.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87r4cxt0eq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87d2ogudfc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Saju M writes: > [...] > > > * Why dir(json) not showing "tool" ?? > > Because of the __all__ variable in the module. > http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/modules.html > Noufal, Well, not quite, right? I posit it's basically because as per python module-import semantics, sub-modules don't end up as names in the package-module[*] unless explicitly added, right? Saju, I sincerely hope your head didn't just explode! :P - d [*] for lack of a better word! From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Fri Sep 13 04:55:26 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 08:25:26 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: (Saager Mhatre's message of "Fri, 13 Sep 2013 01:32:11 +0530") References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EEB26.3020607@bibhas.in> <87y575t2uw.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87r4cxt0eq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87d2ogudfc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <87ioy5e8gx.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Saager Mhatre writes: > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > >> Saju M writes: >> [...] >> > >> > * Why dir(json) not showing "tool" ?? >> >> Because of the __all__ variable in the module. >> http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/modules.html >> > > Noufal, > Well, not quite, right? I posit it's basically because as per python > module-import semantics, sub-modules don't end up as names in the > package-module[*] unless explicitly added, right? Yes. I think that's more accurate. Mea culpa. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 05:42:47 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:12:47 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python "Wat"s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Shabda Raaj wrote: >> whole qx business than Python programmers are with os and subprocess. > > That because subprocess and os module have a very bad api. I prefer using > envoy whenevr I can. > > https://github.com/kennethreitz/envoy Interesting. Haven't worked with envoy, but have found sh http://amoffat.github.io/sh/ as a useful alternative to subprocess. Dhananjay From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 05:48:58 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:18:58 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <20130912124651.GA1632@TR.local> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 12:38 AM, Saager Mhatre wrote: > On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Abdul Muneer wrote: > >> I also pin requirements. But when I do 'pip freeze', I remove the packages >> that are installed as a dependency to main libraries which were explicitly >> installed. >> > > I tend to avoid using 'pip freeze' as part of my dev flow for just this > reason. > YMMV, but it just adds busywork; easier to hand maintain a list of pinned > top-level packages. > As for (optimistically or pessimistically) pinned dependencies, I usually > pin them on a case-by-case basis. > > Packages from pypi may specify dependency as ">=" and it will fetch the >> latest. But if you had pinned those too, it can cause conflicts especially >> if you upgrade the main component. Had run into issues because of this >> while working on a pylons project. >> > > Ditto. > Except I recall hitting this when we were moving to py3k and one of the > 'newer' packages of a dependency of something we were depending on added > code that was beyond 2to3's capability. :P Its a tradeoff between convenience and repeatability. If one wants to avoid surprises eg. the one Saager mentioned, and ensure repeatability its better to pin. Given adequate test coverage to verify negative side effects of any transitive dependency version upgrades, pinning could be skipped imo. Dhananjay From satishsagar83 at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 06:21:01 2013 From: satishsagar83 at gmail.com (L Radhakrishna Rao) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:51:01 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <87ioy5e8gx.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EEB26.3020607@bibhas.in> <87y575t2uw.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87r4cxt0eq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87d2ogudfc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87ioy5e8gx.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: Not so complex, but the technique which I love is the comprehension, it decreases the code size. On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 8:25 AM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Saager Mhatre writes: > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Noufal Ibrahim >wrote: > > > >> Saju M writes: > >> [...] > >> > > > >> > * Why dir(json) not showing "tool" ?? > >> > >> Because of the __all__ variable in the module. > >> http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/modules.html > >> > > > > Noufal, > > Well, not quite, right? I posit it's basically because as per python > > module-import semantics, sub-modules don't end up as names in the > > package-module[*] unless explicitly added, right? > > Yes. I think that's more accurate. Mea culpa. > > [...] > > > -- > Cordially, > Noufal > http://nibrahim.net.in > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Fri Sep 13 07:33:49 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:03:49 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <1378739250.16532.YahooMailNeo@web163604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> (CsquaredinOmaha's message of "Mon, 9 Sep 2013 08:07:30 -0700 (PDT)") References: <1378739250.16532.YahooMailNeo@web163604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <87y571cmki.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> I often type this x = "Break this into a list".split() instead of x = ["Break", "this", "into", "a", "list"] The latter is more tedious to type. -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From sajuptpm at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 09:19:09 2013 From: sajuptpm at gmail.com (Saju M) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:49:09 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <87y571cmki.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <1378739250.16532.YahooMailNeo@web163604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <87y571cmki.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: Import sub-modules with alias. Is it a bug ? >>> >>> import json >>> from json import tool >>> -------- >>> >>> import json as sjson >>> from sjson import tool Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in ImportError: No module named sjson >>> From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 09:27:09 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:57:09 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: References: <1378739250.16532.YahooMailNeo@web163604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <87y571cmki.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Saju M wrote: > Import sub-modules with alias. > Is it a bug ? > >>>> >>>> import json >>>> from json import tool >>>> > > -------- > >>>> >>>> import json as sjson >>>> from sjson import tool > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in > ImportError: No module named sjson >>>> import and from serve to import packages using their canonical package names into the appropriate module name spaces. The alias is applied as a part of the importing process and the target of this is the module name space. Since from looks at the canonical names (in the virtualenv etc.) from sjson means it should look up a package on the disk called sjson (not locate sjson out of module namespace) Dhananjay From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 09:36:23 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:06:23 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <20130912124651.GA1632@TR.local> Message-ID: On Sep 13, 2013 9:19 AM, "Dhananjay Nene" wrote: > [...] > Given adequate test coverage to verify negative side effects of any transitive dependency version upgrades, pinning could be skipped imo. > > Dhananjay +1 for automated tests to cover relevant API contracts of dependencies. That's a great approach to decide when to pin. Thanks for pointing that out Dhananjay. - d From sajuptpm at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 09:40:29 2013 From: sajuptpm at gmail.com (Saju M) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:10:29 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <87ioy5e8gx.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87bo41z3x7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87hadtxnoa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <522EEB26.3020607@bibhas.in> <87y575t2uw.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87r4cxt0eq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87d2ogudfc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87ioy5e8gx.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: Saager, As per python module-import semantics, sub-modules don't end up as names in the package-module[*] unless explicitly added. I didn't get it, what you mean by package-module[*] ?. -------------------------- One simple test. dir(json) showing the module "tool" after "from json import tool", but that module not in json.__all__ list. >>> >>>* import json* >>> >>> >>> *dir(json)* ['JSONDecoder', 'JSONEncoder', '__all__', '__author__', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__package__', '__path__', '__version__', '_default_decoder', '_default_encoder', 'decoder', 'dump', 'dumps', 'encoder', 'load', 'loads', 'scanner'] >>> >>> >>>* json.__all__* ['dump', 'dumps', 'load', 'loads', 'JSONDecoder', 'JSONEncoder'] >>> >>> >>> *from json import tool* >>> >>> >>> dir(json) ['JSONDecoder', 'JSONEncoder', '__all__', '__author__', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__package__', '__path__', '__version__', '_default_decoder', '_default_encoder', 'decoder', 'dump', 'dumps', 'encoder', 'load', 'loads', 'scanner', *'tool'*] >>> >>> >>> *json.__all__* ['dump', 'dumps', 'load', 'loads', 'JSONDecoder', 'JSONEncoder'] >>> >>> Regards Saju Madhavan +91 09535134654 On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 8:25 AM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Saager Mhatre writes: > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Noufal Ibrahim >wrote: > > > >> Saju M writes: > >> [...] > >> > > > >> > * Why dir(json) not showing "tool" ?? > >> > >> Because of the __all__ variable in the module. > >> http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/modules.html > >> > > > > Noufal, > > Well, not quite, right? I posit it's basically because as per python > > module-import semantics, sub-modules don't end up as names in the > > package-module[*] unless explicitly added, right? > > Yes. I think that's more accurate. Mea culpa. > > [...] > > > -- > Cordially, > Noufal > http://nibrahim.net.in > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 09:56:31 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:26:31 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <1378739250.16532.YahooMailNeo@web163604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1378739250.16532.YahooMailNeo@web163604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sep 9, 2013 8:51 PM, "CsquaredinOmaha" wrote: > > > For a while I had thought it would be interesting to hear "tips/techniques you > find yourself often using" - or perhaps found useful at one point (and thus would be valuable to newbies). > > It could be simple snippet, or some description of logic, technique or steps. > From simple to sophisticated is less the issue - more that you "found it handy and used it alot". > > Whatever use area: ETL data files, servers, SQL maintenance, webcrawlers, anything. == Writing tests as top-level functions as opposed to methods of a unittest.TestCase subclass == Aside from the obvious advantage of eliminating ceremony, this has the effect of forcing me to make sure that each test is entirely and atomically independent of other tests. That way, I only ever have to read one function to understand the nature of a given test failure. Also, not having the ability to easily slap on setup/teardown functions/methods forces me to make tests self-contained. Add in the heuristic that tests with long/complicated arrange and/or act sections are indicative of potential design flaws and you have the requisite TDD feedback. It also helps tremendously that both nosetest and pytest support this idiom. - d From sajuptpm at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 10:04:00 2013 From: sajuptpm at gmail.com (Saju M) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:34:00 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Debugging functions/tools/ways Message-ID: Hi, What are the functions/tools/ways you guys are using for debugging. Like,, To get list of attributes of a module, class, instance, --- --------------- dir(object) To get __dict__ attribute of a module, class, instance, --- ----------- vars(object) Debugger -------- import pdb; pdb.set_trace(); Regards Saju Madhavan +91 09535134654 From dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 11:06:33 2013 From: dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com (Dhruv Baldawa) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 14:36:33 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Debugging functions/tools/ways In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is what I use for debugging: from IPython.core.debugger import Tracer; Tracer()() works mostly like pdb, with some nice features like tab completions -- Dhruv Baldawa (http://www.dhruvb.com) On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Saju M wrote: > Hi, > > What are the functions/tools/ways you guys are using for debugging. > > Like,, > > To get list of attributes of a module, class, instance, --- > --------------- > dir(object) > > > To get __dict__ attribute of a module, class, instance, --- > ----------- > vars(object) > > > Debugger > -------- > import pdb; pdb.set_trace(); > > > Regards > Saju Madhavan > +91 09535134654 > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From anandology at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 11:16:08 2013 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 14:46:08 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Debugging functions/tools/ways In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Dhruv Baldawa wrote: > This is what I use for debugging: > from IPython.core.debugger import Tracer; Tracer()() > > works mostly like pdb, with some nice features like tab completions > The best debugging tool I've used so far is the print statement. What about others? Anand From harish.shastry at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 11:20:30 2013 From: harish.shastry at gmail.com (Harish Vishwanath) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 14:50:30 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Debugging functions/tools/ways In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My choice is winpdb. It is great to debug multi threaded applications. Regards, Harish On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Anand Chitipothu wrote: > On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Dhruv Baldawa >wrote: > > > This is what I use for debugging: > > from IPython.core.debugger import Tracer; Tracer()() > > > > works mostly like pdb, with some nice features like tab completions > > > > The best debugging tool I've used so far is the print statement. What about > others? > > Anand > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From kushaldas at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 11:21:15 2013 From: kushaldas at gmail.com (Kushal Das) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 14:51:15 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Debugging functions/tools/ways In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Anand Chitipothu wrote: > The best debugging tool I've used so far is the print statement. What about > others? Works for me in 99% of time or else there is ipdb. Kushal -- http://fedoraproject.org http://kushaldas.in From Anoop.Mavath at ril.com Fri Sep 13 11:39:21 2013 From: Anoop.Mavath at ril.com (Anoop.Mavath at ril.com) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 15:09:21 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [JOBS] Devops opportunities for large scale infrastructure deployment and automation Message-ID: <319CB8367B29404EB0DA130C1EA5DB7B08DA62D0@SIDCMBX01.in.ril.com> Dear All, Reliance is launching a nationwide broad band network (wireless and wired) and services that can take advantage of broadband throughput. The infrastructure to support the nationwide endeavour will comprise of multiple DCs, 10s of thousands of server , 100s of peta bytes of storage etc. to give you a fair idea of starting scale. We are putting together a team to design, implement , automate and manage full lifecycle of this infrastructure , including automated large scale provisioning and deploying various infrastructure services ( config mgmt., regular network services, monitoring etc. to name a few). As we mature will venture into providing services higher up the stack like shared caches, queuing mechanisms, data stores etc.) ). Besides shell, Python is the preferred scripting language for standardization Multiple openings but initially we will focus on experienced/hands on engineers to hit the road running. Over time we will build a balanced team with various skill sets and levels of experience. Please reach out to me directly if interested. Also appreciate any leads to turn key teams who can help speed up the initial framework deployment (short term). Please email resumes!! Thanks in advance Anoop anoop.mavath at ril.com "Confidentiality Warning: This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s). are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient. you are hereby notified that any review. re-transmission. conversion to hard copy. copying. circulation or other use of this message and any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient. please notify the sender immediately by return email. and delete this message and any attachments from your system. Virus Warning: Although the company has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in this email. The company cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email or attachment." From lgp171188 at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 11:34:15 2013 From: lgp171188 at gmail.com (Guruprasad) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 15:04:15 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Debugging functions/tools/ways In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Kushal Das wrote: > On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Anand Chitipothu wrote: > >> The best debugging tool I've used so far is the print statement. What about >> others? > Works for me in 99% of time or else there is ipdb. I heard about pudb (https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pudb) during this year's PyCon India. Even with very less usage, I liked it. Thanks & Regards, Guruprasad From me at bibhas.in Fri Sep 13 11:48:48 2013 From: me at bibhas.in (Bibhas) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 15:18:48 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Debugging functions/tools/ways In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <873fa40d-ae6b-45af-aa9c-07d78b9351a9@email.android.com> Yeah. Pudb is good. But I could not leave the simplistic debugging with print and pdb. Guruprasad wrote: >On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Kushal Das >wrote: >> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Anand Chitipothu > wrote: >> >>> The best debugging tool I've used so far is the print statement. >What about >>> others? >> Works for me in 99% of time or else there is ipdb. > >I heard about pudb (https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pudb) during this >year's PyCon India. Even with very less usage, I liked it. > >Thanks & Regards, >Guruprasad >_______________________________________________ >BangPypers mailing list >BangPypers at python.org >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers -- Thanks Bibhas http://bibhas.in Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From sajuptpm at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 12:08:14 2013 From: sajuptpm at gmail.com (Saju M) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 15:38:14 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Debugging functions/tools/ways In-Reply-To: <873fa40d-ae6b-45af-aa9c-07d78b9351a9@email.android.com> References: <873fa40d-ae6b-45af-aa9c-07d78b9351a9@email.android.com> Message-ID: I use traceback with exception(dummy exception) to find the flow of the programme (files, methods, statements, etc--) import traceback traceback.print_exc() Regards Saju Madhavan +91 09535134654 On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Bibhas wrote: > Yeah. Pudb is good. But I could not leave the simplistic debugging with > print and pdb. > > Guruprasad wrote: > >On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Kushal Das > >wrote: > >> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Anand Chitipothu > > wrote: > >> > >>> The best debugging tool I've used so far is the print statement. > >What about > >>> others? > >> Works for me in 99% of time or else there is ipdb. > > > >I heard about pudb (https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pudb) during this > >year's PyCon India. Even with very less usage, I liked it. > > > >Thanks & Regards, > >Guruprasad > >_______________________________________________ > >BangPypers mailing list > >BangPypers at python.org > >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > -- > Thanks > Bibhas > http://bibhas.in > > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 12:28:06 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 15:58:06 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python packages and modules (was: Favorite tips/techniques) Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Saju M wrote: > Saager, > > As per python module-import semantics, sub-modules don't end up as names > in the > package-module[*] unless explicitly added. > > I didn't get it, what you mean by package-module[*] ?. > Ah, there it is... the sound of your head exploding! :P Buckle up, this is going to be a fast, but rough ride! Basically... ---- * A module is a dict-like object that binds names to values. * A package is a namespace that can contain (only) other modules (which could, in turn, be package-modules themselves). * A package-module[1] would be a module that also serves as a package. I guess it'd be easier to explain with with an example. Semantically... --- * Lets stick to json.tool. In this case, json is a module and tool is a sub-module of the json module. * They are both modules in that each can contain bindings to names => json.dump and tool.main. * But, json is also a package in that it contains the tool module => json.tool * The sub-module relationship is mostly evident from the fact that the tool module is referenced by prefixing 'json.' to it => import json.tool; * Or providing 'json' as the package to look for the module => from json import tool Physically... --- * Any .py file can be loaded as a module. * Any directory with an __init__.py file can be treated as a package. * The __init__.py file itself serves as the package-module, i.e., the module with same name as the package * Any .py files inside the directory (except __init__.py, of course) can be loaded as sub-modules of the above package. * Any sub-directories inside the directory (containing __init__.py, of course) can be loaded as sub-packages of the above package. * Turtles all the way... Funda-mentally... --- * The confusion basically stems from the fact that Python chose to conflate physical storage and namespacing with just enough overlap to be inconsistent. * They are conflated in that package/module naming and their lookup (finding the code for a module) is tied to the physical storage hierarchy. * They are inconsistent that module loading is transitive only upwards in the hierarchy, i.e., when you load a module, all packages above it in the hierarchy are automatically loaded.[2] * However, sub-modules are not loaded even though the physical hierarchy evidences it. * The conflation extends further as we look as modules as namespaces, because sub-modules do not end up as names in package-modules until they are loaded; see below Python 2.7.4 (default, Apr 19 2013, 18:28:01) [GCC 4.7.3] on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. *>>> json* Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in NameError: name 'json' is not defined *>>> import json* *>>> json* *>>> json.tool* Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'tool' *>>> from json import tool* *>>> json* *>>> tool* *>>> json.tool* *>>> * Finally... --- On a closing note, it goes without saying that these packages are not to be confused with packages as published on package indexes such as https://pypi.python.org.[3] (steps behind transparent blast shield to calmly enjoy the sight of more exploding heads) - d [1] I don't believe it would be entirely in the best interest of either of our healths to use this term outside of this thread! [2] IIRC, this was not true for python <2.5 (I think); I recall hitting some really weird import errors when running newer code on a really old interpreter when it suddenly couldn't reference the packages that a loaded module belonged to until they were explicitly loaded. [3] To those in the know, I would be tremendously obliged if you could tell me what brand of blow they were using when they came up with this byzantine, labyrinthine nomenclature and related implementation. I bet it was, as they say, "like, totally radical dude!" From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 12:28:42 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 15:58:42 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Debugging functions/tools/ways In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Anand Chitipothu wrote: > On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Dhruv Baldawa >wrote: > > > This is what I use for debugging: > > from IPython.core.debugger import Tracer; Tracer()() > > > > works mostly like pdb, with some nice features like tab completions > > > > The best debugging tool I've used so far is the print statement. What about > others? > Unit tests... anyone? :) - d From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 12:34:47 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:04:47 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Mail formatting for this list Message-ID: Mods/Admins, Is there a specific reason we've set this list to wrap all mail messages at 80 characters? Just that it seems a little unnecessary to me, give all the hi-resolution wide-screen displays in general use. Just saying. - d From bhatt.suyash at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 13:23:19 2013 From: bhatt.suyash at gmail.com (Suyash Bhatt) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:53:19 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] need help w.r.t itertools Message-ID: Hi all, i need help in finding the most optimized way of making a list using itertools. Suppose I have 3 lists: *a=[?my1?,?my2?] * ** *b=[?name1?,?name2?]* *c=[?is1?]* I want to iter through all and form another list with the following appended strings: *d=['my1name1is1','my1name2is1','my2name1is1','my2name2is1']* Can this be done in a single line using the itertools module?? Regards, Suyash From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Fri Sep 13 13:28:52 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:58:52 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Debugging functions/tools/ways In-Reply-To: (Saju M.'s message of "Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:34:00 +0530") References: Message-ID: <87eh8tc64r.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> PDBTrack - http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/PdbTrack -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From benignbala at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 13:29:31 2013 From: benignbala at gmail.com (Balachandran Sivakumar) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 16:59:31 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Mail formatting for this list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Saager Mhatre wrote: > Mods/Admins, > Is there a specific reason we've set this list to wrap all mail messages at > 80 characters? > Just that it seems a little unnecessary to me, give all the hi-resolution > wide-screen displays in general use. > Still, it is easier to view if it fully fits into your vision :) I would prefer it being 80. Thanks -- Thank you Balachandran Sivakumar Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. - Swami Vivekananda Mail: benignbala at gmail.com Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/ From dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 13:31:35 2013 From: dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com (Dhruv Baldawa) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 17:01:35 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] need help w.r.t itertools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: d = [''.join(x) for x in itertools.product(a, b, c)] -- Dhruv Baldawa (http://www.dhruvb.com) On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Suyash Bhatt wrote: > Hi all, > > i need help in finding the most optimized way of making a list using > itertools. > > Suppose I have 3 lists: > > *a=[?my1?,?my2?] > * > > ** > > *b=[?name1?,?name2?]* > > *c=[?is1?]* > > I want to iter through all and form another list with the following > appended strings: > > *d=['my1name1is1','my1name2is1','my2name1is1','my2name2is1']* > > Can this be done in a single line using the itertools module?? > > > Regards, > > Suyash > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 13:45:17 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 17:15:17 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Favorite tips/techniques In-Reply-To: <1378739250.16532.YahooMailNeo@web163604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1378739250.16532.YahooMailNeo@web163604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sep 9, 2013 8:51 PM, "CsquaredinOmaha" wrote: > > > For a while I had thought it would be interesting to hear "tips/techniques you > find yourself often using" - or perhaps found useful at one point (and thus would be valuable to newbies). > > It could be simple snippet, or some description of logic, technique or steps. > From simple to sophisticated is less the issue - more that you "found it handy and used it alot". > > Whatever use area: ETL data files, servers, SQL maintenance, webcrawlers, anything. The 'returning' function => http://bit.ly/13VNdBJ - d From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 14:39:49 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 18:09:49 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] need help w.r.t itertools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Dhruv Baldawa wrote: > d = [''.join(x) for x in itertools.product(a, b, c)] > Actually, using itertools.imap would ensure that the elements aren't computed till necessary. So... d = itertools.imap(''.join, itertools.product(a, b, c)) - d From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 15:20:30 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 18:50:30 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python packages and modules (was: Favorite tips/techniques) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Saager Mhatre wrote: > On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Saju M wrote: > >> Saager, >> >> As per python module-import semantics, sub-modules don't end up as names >> in the >> package-module[*] unless explicitly added. >> >> I didn't get it, what you mean by package-module[*] ?. >> > > Ah, there it is... the sound of your head exploding! :P > > Buckle up, this is going to be a fast, but rough ride! > > Basically... > ---- > * A module is a dict-like object that binds names to values. > * A package is a namespace that can contain (only) other modules (which > could, in turn, be package-modules themselves). > * A package-module[1] would be a module that also serves as a package. > > I guess it'd be easier to explain with with an example. > > Semantically... > --- > * Lets stick to json.tool. In this case, json is a module and tool is a > sub-module of the json module. > * They are both modules in that each can contain bindings to names => > json.dump and tool.main. > * But, json is also a package in that it contains the tool module => > json.tool > * The sub-module relationship is mostly evident from the fact that the tool > module is referenced by prefixing 'json.' to it => import json.tool; > * Or providing 'json' as the package to look for the module => from json > import tool > > Physically... > --- > * Any .py file can be loaded as a module. > * Any directory with an __init__.py file can be treated as a package. > * The __init__.py file itself serves as the package-module, i.e., the > module with same name as the package > * Any .py files inside the directory (except __init__.py, of course) can be > loaded as sub-modules of the above package. > * Any sub-directories inside the directory (containing __init__.py, of > course) can be loaded as sub-packages of the above package. > * Turtles all the way... > > Funda-mentally... > --- > * The confusion basically stems from the fact that Python chose to conflate > physical storage and namespacing with just enough overlap to be > inconsistent. > * They are conflated in that package/module naming and their lookup > (finding the code for a module) is tied to the physical storage hierarchy. > * They are inconsistent that module loading is transitive only upwards in > the hierarchy, i.e., when you load a module, all packages above it in the > hierarchy are automatically loaded.[2] > * However, sub-modules are not loaded even though the physical hierarchy > evidences it. > * The conflation extends further as we look as modules as namespaces, > because sub-modules do not end up as names in package-modules until they > are loaded; see below > Python 2.7.4 (default, Apr 19 2013, 18:28:01) > [GCC 4.7.3] on linux2 > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. > *>>> json* > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in > NameError: name 'json' is not defined > *>>> import json* > *>>> json* > > *>>> json.tool* > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in > AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'tool' > *>>> from json import tool* > *>>> json* > > *>>> tool* > > *>>> json.tool* > > *>>> * > > Finally... > --- > On a closing note, it goes without saying that these packages are not to be > confused with packages as published on package indexes such as > https://pypi.python.org.[3] Nice. I reached out for the "Favourite" button but realised emails/mailing lists don't have it. I do think it can be a little easier to understand by doing s/package-module/namespace/g. Having done that I realised a few things needed to be reworded, and then noticed a few minor corrections were required. Here's the result (Have attempted to only make minor structural corrections without adjusting any of the opinions or rationale expressed herein) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ah, there it is... the sound of your head exploding! :P Buckle up, this is going to be a fast, but rough ride! Basically... ---- * A namespace is a dict-like object that binds names to values. * A namespace is an abstract notion, which is implemented as packages or modules Thus a package is-a namespace and a module is-a namespace * The package namespace includes the modules in it and the stuff in __init__.py I guess it'd be easier to explain with with an example. Semantically... --- * Lets stick to json.tool. In this case, json is a package and tool is a module * They are both namespaces in that each can contain bindings to names => json.dump and tool.main. * json is a package namespace in that it contains the tool module => json.tool * The sub-module relationship is mostly evident from the fact that the tool module is referenced by prefixing 'json.' to it => import json.tool; * Or providing 'json' as the package to look for the module => from json import tool Physically... --- * Any .py file can be loaded as a module. * Any directory with an __init__.py file can be treated as a package. * The __init__.py file itself serves as part of the package namespace, i.e., ie. it has the same name as the package * Any .py files inside the directory (except __init__.py, of course) can be loaded as sub-modules of the above package. * Any sub-directories inside the directory (containing __init__.py, of course) can be loaded as sub-packages of the above package. * Turtles all the way... Funda-mentally... --- * The confusion basically stems from the fact that Python chose to conflate physical storage and namespacing with just enough overlap to be inconsistent. * They are conflated in that package/module naming and their lookup (finding the code for a module) is tied to the physical storage hierarchy. * They are inconsistent that module loading is transitive only upwards in the hierarchy, i.e., when you load a module, all packages above it in the hierarchy are automatically loaded.[2] * However, sub-modules are not loaded even though the physical hierarchy evidences it. * The conflation extends further as we look as packages as namespaces, because sub-modules do not end up as names in the package namespace until they are loaded; see below Python 2.7.4 (default, Apr 19 2013, 18:28:01) [GCC 4.7.3] on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. *>>> json* Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in NameError: name 'json' is not defined *>>> import json* *>>> json* *>>> json.tool* Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'tool' *>>> from json import tool* *>>> json* *>>> tool* > > (steps behind transparent blast shield to calmly enjoy the sight of more > exploding heads) > - d > > [1] I don't believe it would be entirely in the best interest of either of > our healths to use this term outside of this thread! > [2] IIRC, this was not true for python <2.5 (I think); I recall hitting > some really weird import errors when running newer code on a really old > interpreter when it suddenly couldn't reference the packages that a loaded > module belonged to until they were explicitly loaded. > [3] To those in the know, I would be tremendously obliged if you could tell > me what brand of blow they were using when they came up with this > byzantine, labyrinthine nomenclature and related implementation. I bet it > was, as they say, "like, totally radical dude!" > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene google plus: http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 15:21:43 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 18:51:43 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python packages and modules (was: Favorite tips/techniques) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 6:50 PM, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Saager Mhatre wrote: >> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Saju M wrote: >> >>> Saager, >>> >>> As per python module-import semantics, sub-modules don't end up as names >>> in the >>> package-module[*] unless explicitly added. >>> >>> I didn't get it, what you mean by package-module[*] ?. >>> >> >> Ah, there it is... the sound of your head exploding! :P >> >> Buckle up, this is going to be a fast, but rough ride! >> >> Basically... >> ---- >> * A module is a dict-like object that binds names to values. >> * A package is a namespace that can contain (only) other modules (which >> could, in turn, be package-modules themselves). >> * A package-module[1] would be a module that also serves as a package. >> >> I guess it'd be easier to explain with with an example. >> >> Semantically... >> --- >> * Lets stick to json.tool. In this case, json is a module and tool is a >> sub-module of the json module. >> * They are both modules in that each can contain bindings to names => >> json.dump and tool.main. >> * But, json is also a package in that it contains the tool module => >> json.tool >> * The sub-module relationship is mostly evident from the fact that the tool >> module is referenced by prefixing 'json.' to it => import json.tool; >> * Or providing 'json' as the package to look for the module => from json >> import tool >> >> Physically... >> --- >> * Any .py file can be loaded as a module. >> * Any directory with an __init__.py file can be treated as a package. >> * The __init__.py file itself serves as the package-module, i.e., the >> module with same name as the package >> * Any .py files inside the directory (except __init__.py, of course) can be >> loaded as sub-modules of the above package. >> * Any sub-directories inside the directory (containing __init__.py, of >> course) can be loaded as sub-packages of the above package. >> * Turtles all the way... >> >> Funda-mentally... >> --- >> * The confusion basically stems from the fact that Python chose to conflate >> physical storage and namespacing with just enough overlap to be >> inconsistent. >> * They are conflated in that package/module naming and their lookup >> (finding the code for a module) is tied to the physical storage hierarchy. >> * They are inconsistent that module loading is transitive only upwards in >> the hierarchy, i.e., when you load a module, all packages above it in the >> hierarchy are automatically loaded.[2] >> * However, sub-modules are not loaded even though the physical hierarchy >> evidences it. >> * The conflation extends further as we look as modules as namespaces, >> because sub-modules do not end up as names in package-modules until they >> are loaded; see below >> Python 2.7.4 (default, Apr 19 2013, 18:28:01) >> [GCC 4.7.3] on linux2 >> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >> *>>> json* >> Traceback (most recent call last): >> File "", line 1, in >> NameError: name 'json' is not defined >> *>>> import json* >> *>>> json* >> >> *>>> json.tool* >> Traceback (most recent call last): >> File "", line 1, in >> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'tool' >> *>>> from json import tool* >> *>>> json* >> >> *>>> tool* >> >> *>>> json.tool* >> >> *>>> * >> >> Finally... >> --- >> On a closing note, it goes without saying that these packages are not to be >> confused with packages as published on package indexes such as >> https://pypi.python.org.[3] > > Nice. I reached out for the "Favourite" button but realised > emails/mailing lists don't have it. > > I do think it can be a little easier to understand by doing > s/package-module/namespace/g. Having done that I realised a few things > needed to be reworded, and then noticed a few minor corrections were > required. > > Here's the result (Have attempted to only make minor structural > corrections without adjusting any of the opinions or rationale > expressed herein) > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ah, there it is... the sound of your head exploding! :P > > Buckle up, this is going to be a fast, but rough ride! > > Basically... > ---- > * A namespace is a dict-like object that binds names to values. > * A namespace is an abstract notion, which is implemented as packages or modules > Thus a package is-a namespace and a module is-a namespace > * The package namespace includes the modules in it and the stuff in __init__.py > > I guess it'd be easier to explain with with an example. > > Semantically... > --- > * Lets stick to json.tool. In this case, json is a package and tool is > a module > * They are both namespaces in that each can contain bindings to names > => json.dump and tool.main. > * json is a package namespace in that it contains the tool module => json.tool > * The sub-module relationship is mostly evident from the fact that the > tool module is referenced by prefixing 'json.' to it => import > json.tool; > * Or providing 'json' as the package to look for the module => from > json import tool > > Physically... > --- > * Any .py file can be loaded as a module. > * Any directory with an __init__.py file can be treated as a package. > * The __init__.py file itself serves as part of the package namespace, > i.e., ie. it has the same name as the package > * Any .py files inside the directory (except __init__.py, of course) > can be loaded as sub-modules of the above package. > * Any sub-directories inside the directory (containing __init__.py, of > course) can be loaded as sub-packages of the above package. > * Turtles all the way... > > Funda-mentally... > --- > * The confusion basically stems from the fact that Python chose to > conflate physical storage and namespacing with just enough overlap to > be inconsistent. > * They are conflated in that package/module naming and their lookup > (finding the code for a module) is tied to the physical storage > hierarchy. > * They are inconsistent that module loading is transitive only upwards > in the hierarchy, i.e., when you load a module, all packages above it > in the hierarchy are automatically loaded.[2] > * However, sub-modules are not loaded even though the physical > hierarchy evidences it. > * The conflation extends further as we look as packages as namespaces, > because sub-modules do not end up as names in the package namespace > until they are loaded; see below > Python 2.7.4 (default, Apr 19 2013, 18:28:01) > [GCC 4.7.3] on linux2 > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. > *>>> json* > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in > NameError: name 'json' is not defined > *>>> import json* > *>>> json* > > *>>> json.tool* > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in > AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'tool' > *>>> from json import tool* > *>>> json* > > *>>> tool* Apologies : that was an incomplete paste .. here's a continuation ----------------------------------- >>> tool* *>>> json.tool* *>>> * Finally... --- On a closing note, it goes without saying that these packages are not to be confused with packages as published on package indexes such as https://pypi.python.org.[3] >> >> (steps behind transparent blast shield to calmly enjoy the sight of more >> exploding heads) >> - d >> >> [1] I don't believe it would be entirely in the best interest of either of >> our healths to use this term outside of this thread! >> [2] IIRC, this was not true for python <2.5 (I think); I recall hitting >> some really weird import errors when running newer code on a really old >> interpreter when it suddenly couldn't reference the packages that a loaded >> module belonged to until they were explicitly loaded. >> [3] To those in the know, I would be tremendously obliged if you could tell >> me what brand of blow they were using when they came up with this >> byzantine, labyrinthine nomenclature and related implementation. I bet it >> was, as they say, "like, totally radical dude!" >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene google plus: > http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene google plus: http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 15:50:57 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 19:20:57 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python packages and modules (was: Favorite tips/techniques) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 6:50 PM, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > Nice. I reached out for the "Favourite" button but realised > emails/mailing lists don't have it. > (takes a bow) I do think it can be a little easier to understand by doing > s/package-module/namespace/g. Having done that I realised a few things > needed to be reworded, and then noticed a few minor corrections were > required. > I specifically chose not to generalize both of them into a single abstraction of 'namespace' because of the inconsistency in behaviour. Treating them as two different abstractions helps me keep the inconsistency as well as conflation clear in my head. In my experience, the last time I tried to resolve that into a single notion, it kept tripping me up at the 'loading' cases, esp when trying to include how older versions worked. But YMMV. > Here's the result (Have attempted to only make minor structural > corrections without adjusting any of the opinions or rationale > expressed herein) Your result is not bad, but I still prefer my original approach. No offence. :) Oh, and I'm still waiting on an answer for [3]. ;) - d From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 16:37:13 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 20:07:13 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python packages and modules (was: Favorite tips/techniques) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 13 Sep 2013 19:21, "Saager Mhatre" wrote: > > > Your result is not bad, but I still prefer my original approach. No > offence. :) None perceived :) > Oh, and I'm still waiting on an answer for [3]. ;) I have my theories :) Don't know the facts. > > - d > From superpulse.x at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 17:40:05 2013 From: superpulse.x at gmail.com (venkatakrishnan g) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 21:10:05 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python packages and modules (was: Favorite tips/techniques) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh, dexterous just blew my head! I'll stick it back together and run through this again. On 13 September 2013 15:58, Saager Mhatre wrote: > On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Saju M wrote: > > > Saager, > > > > As per python module-import semantics, sub-modules don't end up as names > > in the > > package-module[*] unless explicitly added. > > > > I didn't get it, what you mean by package-module[*] ?. > > > > Ah, there it is... the sound of your head exploding! :P > > Buckle up, this is going to be a fast, but rough ride! > > Basically... > ---- > * A module is a dict-like object that binds names to values. > * A package is a namespace that can contain (only) other modules (which > could, in turn, be package-modules themselves). > * A package-module[1] would be a module that also serves as a package. > > I guess it'd be easier to explain with with an example. > > Semantically... > --- > * Lets stick to json.tool. In this case, json is a module and tool is a > sub-module of the json module. > * They are both modules in that each can contain bindings to names => > json.dump and tool.main. > * But, json is also a package in that it contains the tool module => > json.tool > * The sub-module relationship is mostly evident from the fact that the tool > module is referenced by prefixing 'json.' to it => import json.tool; > * Or providing 'json' as the package to look for the module => from json > import tool > > Physically... > --- > * Any .py file can be loaded as a module. > * Any directory with an __init__.py file can be treated as a package. > * The __init__.py file itself serves as the package-module, i.e., the > module with same name as the package > * Any .py files inside the directory (except __init__.py, of course) can be > loaded as sub-modules of the above package. > * Any sub-directories inside the directory (containing __init__.py, of > course) can be loaded as sub-packages of the above package. > * Turtles all the way... > > Funda-mentally... > --- > * The confusion basically stems from the fact that Python chose to conflate > physical storage and namespacing with just enough overlap to be > inconsistent. > * They are conflated in that package/module naming and their lookup > (finding the code for a module) is tied to the physical storage hierarchy. > * They are inconsistent that module loading is transitive only upwards in > the hierarchy, i.e., when you load a module, all packages above it in the > hierarchy are automatically loaded.[2] > * However, sub-modules are not loaded even though the physical hierarchy > evidences it. > * The conflation extends further as we look as modules as namespaces, > because sub-modules do not end up as names in package-modules until they > are loaded; see below > Python 2.7.4 (default, Apr 19 2013, 18:28:01) > [GCC 4.7.3] on linux2 > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. > *>>> json* > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in > NameError: name 'json' is not defined > *>>> import json* > *>>> json* > > *>>> json.tool* > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in > AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'tool' > *>>> from json import tool* > *>>> json* > > *>>> tool* > > *>>> json.tool* > > *>>> * > > Finally... > --- > On a closing note, it goes without saying that these packages are not to be > confused with packages as published on package indexes such as > https://pypi.python.org.[3] > > (steps behind transparent blast shield to calmly enjoy the sight of more > exploding heads) > - d > > [1] I don't believe it would be entirely in the best interest of either of > our healths to use this term outside of this thread! > [2] IIRC, this was not true for python <2.5 (I think); I recall hitting > some really weird import errors when running newer code on a really old > interpreter when it suddenly couldn't reference the packages that a loaded > module belonged to until they were explicitly loaded. > [3] To those in the know, I would be tremendously obliged if you could tell > me what brand of blow they were using when they came up with this > byzantine, labyrinthine nomenclature and related implementation. I bet it > was, as they say, "like, totally radical dude!" > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 22:30:13 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 02:00:13 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python packages and modules (was: Favorite tips/techniques) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sep 13, 2013 9:10 PM, "venkatakrishnan g" wrote: > > Oh, dexterous just blew my head! Music to my ears. :D - d From sriramnrn at gmail.com Sat Sep 14 03:05:25 2013 From: sriramnrn at gmail.com (Sriram Narayanan) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 06:35:25 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Debugging functions/tools/ways In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sep 13, 2013 3:58 PM, "Saager Mhatre" wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Anand Chitipothu wrote: > > > On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Dhruv Baldawa > >wrote: > > > > > This is what I use for debugging: > > > from IPython.core.debugger import Tracer; Tracer()() > > > > > > works mostly like pdb, with some nice features like tab completions > > > > > > > The best debugging tool I've used so far is the print statement. What about > > others? > > > > Unit tests... anyone? :) Test driven development using Unit Tests, regular logging on production. I've resumed learning dtrace for debugging on production. Given Paul Fox' work on dtrace for Linux (apart from dtrace being production ready on bsd and Solaris), and the dtrace patches for Python ( both of which I haven't tried yet), I think using dtrace will be most effective going forward. > > - d > Ram _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Sat Sep 14 06:01:57 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 09:31:57 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Debugging functions/tools/ways In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sep 14, 2013 6:37 AM, "Sriram Narayanan" wrote: > [...] > I think using dtrace will be most effective going forward. Hear, hear! DTrace FTW!! - d From jeffjosejeff at gmail.com Sat Sep 14 07:06:45 2013 From: jeffjosejeff at gmail.com (Jeffrey Jose) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 10:36:45 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Mail formatting for this list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Except that when it breaks sentences at places completely random like this with a hanging word Do people have strong preference with 80chars? What would it take to try out full-width for sometime? On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Balachandran Sivakumar < benignbala at gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Saager Mhatre > wrote: > > Mods/Admins, > > Is there a specific reason we've set this list to wrap all mail messages > at > > 80 characters? > > Just that it seems a little unnecessary to me, give all the hi-resolution > > wide-screen displays in general use. > > > > Still, it is easier to view if it fully fits into your > vision :) I would prefer it being 80. Thanks > > > > -- > Thank you > Balachandran Sivakumar > > Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. > - Swami > Vivekananda > > Mail: benignbala at gmail.com > Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/ > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From benignbala at gmail.com Sat Sep 14 07:19:32 2013 From: benignbala at gmail.com (Balachandran Sivakumar) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 10:49:32 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Mail formatting for this list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Jeffrey Jose wrote: > > Do people have strong preference with 80chars? What would it take to try > out full-width for sometime? > > It is not a "strong" preference. It is something that a lot of us are used to, and so I assume people are fine with it and hence status quo :). But, if people find this format difficult and prefer a full-width format, we can try out and ask for people's feedback. Just that it takes a few days to get used it and that should be fine. Thanks -- Thank you Balachandran Sivakumar Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. - Swami Vivekananda Mail: benignbala at gmail.com Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/ From benignbala at gmail.com Sat Sep 14 07:29:25 2013 From: benignbala at gmail.com (Balachandran Sivakumar) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 10:59:25 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Debugging functions/tools/ways In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Sriram, On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 6:35 AM, Sriram Narayanan wrote: > > I've resumed learning dtrace for debugging on production. Given Paul Fox' > work on dtrace for Linux (apart from dtrace being production ready on bsd > and Solaris), and the dtrace patches for Python ( both of which I haven't > tried yet), I think using dtrace will be most effective going forward. > When you find some time, please do post a few Python dtrace one-liners here. It would be useful to the rest of us. Thanks -- Thank you Balachandran Sivakumar Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. - Swami Vivekananda From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Sat Sep 14 13:25:10 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 16:55:10 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Mail formatting for this list In-Reply-To: (Balachandran Sivakumar's message of "Sat, 14 Sep 2013 10:49:32 +0530") References: Message-ID: <877gej4pd5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Balachandran Sivakumar writes: [...] > It is not a "strong" preference. It is something that a > lot of us are used to, and so I assume people are fine with it and > hence status quo :). It's quite a strong preference for me. I'm also very pedantic about the way I format my emails. I'm not too particular about horizontal space. I think the current trend which favours widescreen aspect ratios is deplorable and not very helpful while coding. It's irritating when a line of text is so long on a monitor that I have to deliberately look left to right. I much prefer vertical screen space so that I don't have to repeatedly scroll and jump around while trying to read some code. > But, if people find this format difficult and prefer a > full-width format, we can try out and ask for people's feedback. Just > that it takes a few days to get used it and that should be fine. Please no. It's annoying and there's no real gain from allowing long lines of text. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From naikvin at gmail.com Sat Sep 14 10:31:20 2013 From: naikvin at gmail.com (Vineet Naik) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:01:20 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <20130912124651.GA1632@TR.local> Message-ID: I too have learnt the hard way how `--upgrade` can cause conflicts due to the `pip freeze` flattening the dependency tree. What works for me though is to keep requirements.txt completely out of picture when upgrading packages ie. to upgrade manually and preferably do it one package at a time as far as possible. Considering that upgrades don't happen frequently (at least in projects I have worked on), it's not much of a hassle. But yes, this requires a list of top level deps to be maintained (or they may be found out by guessing and confirming at the time of upgrading :-)) IMO, where pinning really helps is guaranteeing a stable environment at any time. One advantage of pinning requirements even if there are automated tests is that if tests fail due to a breaking upgrade, it will be easier to know which version to rollback to. Another thing is, as per the deployment workflow we follow at my workplace, everytime while deploying code to the server, fabric runs a `pip install -r requirements.txt` remotely. Since requirements are pinned, most of the time installation is skipped unless some package has been upgraded locally. But in case they are not pinned, a buggy upgrade could break production (there could be a better approach for synchronizing dependencies across different environments and I would be happy to know about it) On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Saager Mhatre wrote: > On Sep 13, 2013 9:19 AM, "Dhananjay Nene" > wrote: > > [...] > > Given adequate test coverage to verify negative side effects of any > transitive dependency version upgrades, pinning could be skipped imo. > > > > Dhananjay > > +1 for automated tests to cover relevant API contracts of dependencies. > That's a great approach to decide when to pin. > > Thanks for pointing that out Dhananjay. > > - d > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Vineet Naik From b.ghose at gmail.com Sat Sep 14 11:18:17 2013 From: b.ghose at gmail.com (Baishampayan Ghose) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:48:17 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> Message-ID: Oh! Is that a big deal? Of course we pin our requirements (in all languages) and that's how it should be done. Otherwise you can't get repeatable builds. ~BG On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 5:45 PM, BibhasD wrote: > Quick googling suggests pinning = specifying versions. > > I do it. I think that makes more sense if you're depending on 3rd party > packages. > > -- > Bibhas > > On Thursday 12 September 2013 05:41 PM, Baishampayan Ghose wrote: >> What do you mean by "pin"? ~BG >> >> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Shabda Raaj >> wrote: >>> Curious how many people are doing/not doing it. >>> >>> (We pin our requirements.txt). >>> >>> -- Thanks, Shabda >>> >>> Agiliq.com - Building Amazing Apps agiliq.com/blog/ | >>> github.com/agiliq US: +13152854388 | IN: +919949997612 | Skype: >>> shabda.raaj Our Android Apps >>> | Our iOS >>> Apps >>> _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing >>> list BangPypers at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers -- Baishampayan Ghose b.ghose at gmail.com From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Sat Sep 14 11:26:06 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:56:06 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: (Baishampayan Ghose's message of "Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:48:17 +0530") References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> Message-ID: <87txhn3gb5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Baishampayan Ghose writes: > Oh! Is that a big deal? Of course we pin our requirements (in all > languages) and that's how it should be done. Otherwise you can't get > repeatable builds. ~BG I sometimes go futher and bundle the dependecies, and put them on dropbox or something. Then wget and install the bundle from there. This was before PyPI was mirrored and became more reliable. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From 91prashantgaur at gmail.com Sat Sep 14 11:46:14 2013 From: 91prashantgaur at gmail.com (Prashant Gaur) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 15:16:14 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] confused about behaviour of None in python Message-ID: Hi All, I tried In [55]: None < 10 Out[55]: True It gives me output True . it suppose to give me error . Please explain me None < 10 is True . Regards : Prashant Gaur +91 9030015491 From vpuri.social at gmail.com Sat Sep 14 12:22:01 2013 From: vpuri.social at gmail.com (Vivek Puri) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 15:52:01 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] confused about behaviour of None in python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <523438C9.4080606@gmail.com> Hi, > I tried > > In [55]: None < 10 > Out[55]: True > > It gives me output True . > it suppose to give me error . > Please explain me None < 10 is True . > In python2 None is always considered "lowest" value so, None will always be < any other value. Which explains the result you are getting. In Python3 it will raise an exception because two values are of different type. rgds vivek From 91prashantgaur at gmail.com Sat Sep 14 12:12:18 2013 From: 91prashantgaur at gmail.com (Prashant Gaur) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 15:42:18 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] confused about behaviour of None in python In-Reply-To: <523438C9.4080606@gmail.com> References: <523438C9.4080606@gmail.com> Message-ID: Actually i am working on 2.7.3 now i got . Thanks dude. On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Vivek Puri wrote: > Hi, > > I tried >> >> In [55]: None < 10 >> Out[55]: True >> >> It gives me output True . >> it suppose to give me error . >> Please explain me None < 10 is True . >> >> > In python2 None is always considered "lowest" value so, None will always > be < any other value. Which explains the result you are getting. > In Python3 it will raise an exception because two values are of different > type. > > > rgds > vivek > ______________________________**_________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Regards : Prashant Gaur +91 9030015491 From sriramnrn at gmail.com Sat Sep 14 15:07:49 2013 From: sriramnrn at gmail.com (Sriram Narayanan) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 18:37:49 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Getting started with DTrace. Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Balachandran Sivakumar < benignbala at gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Sriram, > > On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 6:35 AM, Sriram Narayanan > wrote: > > > > I've resumed learning dtrace for debugging on production. Given Paul Fox' > > work on dtrace for Linux (apart from dtrace being production ready on bsd > > and Solaris), and the dtrace patches for Python ( both of which I haven't > > tried yet), I think using dtrace will be most effective going forward. > > > > When you find some time, please do post a few Python > dtrace one-liners here. It would be useful to the rest of us. Thanks > > > OSX, Solaris, BSD users: you already have DTrace. Linux users: See https://github.com/dtrace4linux/linux Once you've determined that you have dtrace (by either installing dtrace4linux Run python in one terminal window, and then dtrace -l | grep python in another window. Please see: http://www.brendangregg.com/dtrace.html#DTraceToolkit Get the DTrace toolkit, and check the scripts in the python folder. Start using these scripts. I've only tried this out on Solaris, though they may work on other OS platforms too. -- Ram www.belenix.org From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Sat Sep 14 15:28:02 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 18:58:02 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: <87txhn3gb5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <87txhn3gb5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 2:56 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Baishampayan Ghose writes: > > > Oh! Is that a big deal? Of course we pin our requirements (in all > > languages) and that's how it should be done. Otherwise you can't get > > repeatable builds. ~BG > > I sometimes go futher and bundle the dependecies, and put them on > dropbox or something. Then wget and install the bundle from there. > > The difficulty with that approach (I've never actually done it) is that it requires versioning these bundles, make them available to your installation scripts and code to them (lately I've started using ansible to do this). > This was before PyPI was mirrored and became more reliable. > After realising distributions eventually disappear pypi (central), makes sense to have your own pypi mirror which lacks the feature of disappearing dists. From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Sat Sep 14 19:16:43 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 22:46:43 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: (Dhananjay Nene's message of "Sat, 14 Sep 2013 18:58:02 +0530") References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <87txhn3gb5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <878uyz1fyc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Dhananjay Nene writes: [...] > The difficulty with that approach (I've never actually done it) is > that it requires versioning these bundles, make them available to your > installation scripts and code to them (lately I've started using > ansible to do this). I know. I don't think I'd do it again. This was a stop gap thing back then. [...] > After realising distributions eventually disappear pypi (central), > makes sense to have your own pypi mirror which lacks the feature of > disappearing dists. I actually had a script which would make a bundle and then wrap it up in a self extracting script (using makeself). If you ran it, it would serve the packages in that bundle as a local PyPI mirror which you could install off of. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Sat Sep 14 19:21:08 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 22:51:08 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [Announce] Online Python workshop In-Reply-To: <87d2ok3pky.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> (Noufal Ibrahim's message of "Sun, 08 Sep 2013 09:57:41 +0530") References: <87d2ok3pky.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <87six7z5dn.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> I just wrapped this up earlier today and have the course notes and IRC transcript at http://thelycaeum.in/online-workshops/python-14-Sep-2013/python-14-sep-2013.html Comments welcome. Thanks! Noufal Ibrahim writes: > Hello everyone, > I'm planning to do a small online Python workshop on the 14th > (this Saturday). I've made the announcement on my website at > http://thelycaeum.in/blog/2013/09/04/online_course_on_basic_python/ > > I'm specifically targetting college students. If you've been > using python professionally for a year, I don't think you'll learn > much. I'm looking mostly at newbies. > > The registration link is on the website. Please sign up if > you're interested and help spread the word. > > Thanks. -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From jace at pobox.com Sat Sep 14 19:30:55 2013 From: jace at pobox.com (Kiran Jonnalagadda) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 23:00:55 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: <878uyz1fyc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <87txhn3gb5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <878uyz1fyc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: We almost never pin at HasGeek. If an external library breaks API, we upgrade our code ASAP (we discover breakage from Travis reports). Between the risk of breaking code and having the hot seat at any hint of bit rot, I find the latter preferable. Kiran -- Kiran Jonnalagadda http://jace.zaiki.in/ http://hasgeek.com/ (Sent from my phone) On Sep 14, 2013 10:50 PM, "Noufal Ibrahim" wrote: > Dhananjay Nene writes: > > > [...] > > > The difficulty with that approach (I've never actually done it) is > > that it requires versioning these bundles, make them available to your > > installation scripts and code to them (lately I've started using > > ansible to do this). > > I know. I don't think I'd do it again. This was a stop gap thing back > then. > > > [...] > > > After realising distributions eventually disappear pypi (central), > > makes sense to have your own pypi mirror which lacks the feature of > > disappearing dists. > > I actually had a script which would make a bundle and then wrap it up in > a self extracting script (using makeself). If you ran it, it would serve > the packages in that bundle as a local PyPI mirror which you could > install off of. > [...] > > > -- > Cordially, > Noufal > http://nibrahim.net.in > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Sat Sep 14 20:28:14 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 23:58:14 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <87txhn3gb5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <878uyz1fyc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Kiran Jonnalagadda wrote: > We almost never pin at HasGeek. If an external library breaks API, we > upgrade our code ASAP (we discover breakage from Travis reports). > > I know I sound a little too particular, and frankly that is not my intent, but there still remains an issue in terms of repeatability. The tests have to be run as a part of the deployment process if you want to ensure that the distributions you test with are the distributions that you deploy with. > Between the risk of breaking code and having the hot seat at any hint of > bit rot, I find the latter preferable. > > A sentiment I empathise with. Only yesterday I found code breaking against python 3.3.1 (as opposed to 3.3.0) and hopefully should fix it in the next couple of days. Its just that I've rarely found the luxury to hold back a deployment should a piece of code break due to dependency version upgrades. Thus dependency version upgrades almost work with a different time window than just pure deployable distribution version upgrade cycle. > Kiran > > -- > Kiran Jonnalagadda > http://jace.zaiki.in/ > http://hasgeek.com/ > > (Sent from my phone) > On Sep 14, 2013 10:50 PM, "Noufal Ibrahim" wrote: > > > Dhananjay Nene writes: > > > > > > [...] > > > > > The difficulty with that approach (I've never actually done it) is > > > that it requires versioning these bundles, make them available to your > > > installation scripts and code to them (lately I've started using > > > ansible to do this). > > > > I know. I don't think I'd do it again. This was a stop gap thing back > > then. > > > > > > [...] > > > > > After realising distributions eventually disappear pypi (central), > > > makes sense to have your own pypi mirror which lacks the feature of > > > disappearing dists. > > > > I actually had a script which would make a bundle and then wrap it up in > > a self extracting script (using makeself). If you ran it, it would serve > > the packages in that bundle as a local PyPI mirror which you could > > install off of. > > [...] > > > > > > -- > > Cordially, > > Noufal > > http://nibrahim.net.in > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene google plus: http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene From jeffjosejeff at gmail.com Sat Sep 14 21:11:24 2013 From: jeffjosejeff at gmail.com (Jeffrey Jose) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 00:41:24 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Mail formatting for this list In-Reply-To: <877gej4pd5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <877gej4pd5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Balachandran Sivakumar writes: > > [...] > > > It is not a "strong" preference. It is something that a > > lot of us are used to, and so I assume people are fine with it and > > hence status quo :). > > It's quite a strong preference for me. I'm also very pedantic about the > way I format my emails. > > I'm not too particular about horizontal space. I think the current trend > which favours widescreen aspect ratios is deplorable and not very > helpful while coding. It's irritating when a line of text is so long on > a monitor that I have to deliberately look left to right. Conveniently changed the topic from mails to code eh? :) Anyway, I'm with you on that. Especially hard when I have to diff something side by side. Irritating? Yes. Deplorable? Not quite. > I much prefer > vertical screen space so that I don't have to repeatedly scroll and jump > around while trying to read some code. > I dont understand. What's your viewport width? Can that only support 80ish chars? Are you on mobile/tablet? I'm on gmail, and I can see .. chatbox, this email, lots of whitespace AND advertisements.. from left to right. > > > But, if people find this format difficult and prefer a > > full-width format, we can try out and ask for people's feedback. Just > > that it takes a few days to get used it and that should be fine. > > Please no. It's annoying and there's no real gain from allowing long > lines of text. > > What's annoying to me is that this breaks my flow of reading when I have to constantly move my eyes right to left, hoping I land on the next line. Its especially hard to find the correct line when you're in the middle of a big paragraph. I think what I'm trying to say is for code, 80 chars (for the most part) and for emails, lets use the full width (and let the editor/browser/client deal with wrapping) -jeff > [...] > > -- > Cordially, > Noufal > http://nibrahim.net.in > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From jace at pobox.com Sun Sep 15 00:13:08 2013 From: jace at pobox.com (Kiran Jonnalagadda) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 03:43:08 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <87txhn3gb5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <878uyz1fyc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: Thanks to Travis, we test every commit, before deployment. -- Kiran Jonnalagadda http://jace.zaiki.in/ http://hasgeek.com/ (Sent from my phone) On Sep 14, 2013 11:58 PM, "Dhananjay Nene" wrote: > On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Kiran Jonnalagadda > wrote: > > > We almost never pin at HasGeek. If an external library breaks API, we > > upgrade our code ASAP (we discover breakage from Travis reports). > > > > I know I sound a little too particular, and frankly that is not my > intent, > but there still remains an issue in terms of repeatability. The tests have > to be run as a part of the deployment process if you want to ensure that > the distributions you test with are the distributions that you deploy with. > > > > Between the risk of breaking code and having the hot seat at any hint of > > bit rot, I find the latter preferable. > > > > A sentiment I empathise with. Only yesterday I found code breaking > against > python 3.3.1 (as opposed to 3.3.0) and hopefully should fix it in the next > couple of days. Its just that I've rarely found the luxury to hold back a > deployment should a piece of code break due to dependency version upgrades. > Thus dependency version upgrades almost work with a different time window > than just pure deployable distribution version upgrade cycle. > > > Kiran > > > > -- > > Kiran Jonnalagadda > > http://jace.zaiki.in/ > > http://hasgeek.com/ > > > > (Sent from my phone) > > On Sep 14, 2013 10:50 PM, "Noufal Ibrahim" > wrote: > > > > > Dhananjay Nene writes: > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > The difficulty with that approach (I've never actually done it) is > > > > that it requires versioning these bundles, make them available to > your > > > > installation scripts and code to them (lately I've started using > > > > ansible to do this). > > > > > > I know. I don't think I'd do it again. This was a stop gap thing back > > > then. > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > After realising distributions eventually disappear pypi (central), > > > > makes sense to have your own pypi mirror which lacks the feature of > > > > disappearing dists. > > > > > > I actually had a script which would make a bundle and then wrap it up > in > > > a self extracting script (using makeself). If you ran it, it would > serve > > > the packages in that bundle as a local PyPI mirror which you could > > > install off of. > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Cordially, > > > Noufal > > > http://nibrahim.net.in > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BangPypers mailing list > > > BangPypers at python.org > > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene > google plus: > http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Sun Sep 15 01:06:56 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 04:36:56 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <87txhn3gb5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <878uyz1fyc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 3:43 AM, Kiran Jonnalagadda wrote: > Thanks to Travis, we test every commit, before deployment. > I was perhaps misunderstood. If you test (even with say travis) but without a pinned requirements.txt, and then create a dist and later deploy the dist onto the server using a pip install (w/o a requirements.txt) then you no longer have a repeatability in terms of transient dependencies. Because travis may have used a version x.y of a transient dependency but the actual deployment may end up using version x.(y+1) if the dependency in setup.py of a dist you directly used specified the transient dependency as >= x.0 say. Or then perhaps I couldn't understand something. > > -- > Kiran Jonnalagadda > http://jace.zaiki.in/ > http://hasgeek.com/ > > (Sent from my phone) > On Sep 14, 2013 11:58 PM, "Dhananjay Nene" > wrote: > > > On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Kiran Jonnalagadda > > wrote: > > > > > We almost never pin at HasGeek. If an external library breaks API, we > > > upgrade our code ASAP (we discover breakage from Travis reports). > > > > > > I know I sound a little too particular, and frankly that is not my > > intent, > > but there still remains an issue in terms of repeatability. The tests > have > > to be run as a part of the deployment process if you want to ensure that > > the distributions you test with are the distributions that you deploy > with. > > > > > > > Between the risk of breaking code and having the hot seat at any hint > of > > > bit rot, I find the latter preferable. > > > > > > A sentiment I empathise with. Only yesterday I found code breaking > > against > > python 3.3.1 (as opposed to 3.3.0) and hopefully should fix it in the > next > > couple of days. Its just that I've rarely found the luxury to hold back a > > deployment should a piece of code break due to dependency version > upgrades. > > Thus dependency version upgrades almost work with a different time window > > than just pure deployable distribution version upgrade cycle. > > > > > Kiran > > > > > > -- > > > Kiran Jonnalagadda > > > http://jace.zaiki.in/ > > > http://hasgeek.com/ > > > > > > (Sent from my phone) > > > On Sep 14, 2013 10:50 PM, "Noufal Ibrahim" > > wrote: > > > > > > > Dhananjay Nene writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > The difficulty with that approach (I've never actually done it) is > > > > > that it requires versioning these bundles, make them available to > > your > > > > > installation scripts and code to them (lately I've started using > > > > > ansible to do this). > > > > > > > > I know. I don't think I'd do it again. This was a stop gap thing back > > > > then. > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > After realising distributions eventually disappear pypi (central), > > > > > makes sense to have your own pypi mirror which lacks the feature of > > > > > disappearing dists. > > > > > > > > I actually had a script which would make a bundle and then wrap it up > > in > > > > a self extracting script (using makeself). If you ran it, it would > > serve > > > > the packages in that bundle as a local PyPI mirror which you could > > > > install off of. > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Cordially, > > > > Noufal > > > > http://nibrahim.net.in > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > BangPypers mailing list > > > > BangPypers at python.org > > > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BangPypers mailing list > > > BangPypers at python.org > > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene > > google plus: > > http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From sriramnrn at gmail.com Sun Sep 15 04:03:01 2013 From: sriramnrn at gmail.com (Sriram Narayanan) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 07:33:01 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <87txhn3gb5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <878uyz1fyc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sep 15, 2013 4:37 AM, "Dhananjay Nene" wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 3:43 AM, Kiran Jonnalagadda wrote: > > > Thanks to Travis, we test every commit, before deployment. > > > > I was perhaps misunderstood. If you test (even with say travis) but without > a pinned requirements.txt, and then create a dist and later deploy the dist > onto the server using a pip install (w/o a requirements.txt) then you no > longer have a repeatability in terms of transient dependencies. Because > travis may have used a version x.y of a transient dependency but the actual > deployment may end up using version x.(y+1) if the dependency in setup.py > of a dist you directly used specified the transient dependency as >= x.0 > say. To avoid this problem, I'd ensure that my build and production systems are setup using the same scripts. I'm inclined to bundling dependencies as private libraries if I've no control on the runtime systems. > > Or then perhaps I couldn't understand something. > > > > > -- > > Kiran Jonnalagadda > > http://jace.zaiki.in/ > > http://hasgeek.com/ > > > > (Sent from my phone) > > On Sep 14, 2013 11:58 PM, "Dhananjay Nene" > > wrote: > > > > > On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Kiran Jonnalagadda > > > wrote: > > > > > > > We almost never pin at HasGeek. If an external library breaks API, we > > > > upgrade our code ASAP (we discover breakage from Travis reports). > > > > > > > > I know I sound a little too particular, and frankly that is not my > > > intent, > > > but there still remains an issue in terms of repeatability. The tests > > have > > > to be run as a part of the deployment process if you want to ensure that > > > the distributions you test with are the distributions that you deploy > > with. > > > > > > > > > > Between the risk of breaking code and having the hot seat at any hint > > of > > > > bit rot, I find the latter preferable. > > > > > > > > A sentiment I empathise with. Only yesterday I found code breaking > > > against > > > python 3.3.1 (as opposed to 3.3.0) and hopefully should fix it in the > > next > > > couple of days. Its just that I've rarely found the luxury to hold back a > > > deployment should a piece of code break due to dependency version > > upgrades. > > > Thus dependency version upgrades almost work with a different time window > > > than just pure deployable distribution version upgrade cycle. > > > > > > > Kiran > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Kiran Jonnalagadda > > > > http://jace.zaiki.in/ > > > > http://hasgeek.com/ > > > > > > > > (Sent from my phone) > > > > On Sep 14, 2013 10:50 PM, "Noufal Ibrahim" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dhananjay Nene writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > The difficulty with that approach (I've never actually done it) is > > > > > > that it requires versioning these bundles, make them available to > > > your > > > > > > installation scripts and code to them (lately I've started using > > > > > > ansible to do this). > > > > > > > > > > I know. I don't think I'd do it again. This was a stop gap thing back > > > > > then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > After realising distributions eventually disappear pypi (central), > > > > > > makes sense to have your own pypi mirror which lacks the feature of > > > > > > disappearing dists. > > > > > > > > > > I actually had a script which would make a bundle and then wrap it up > > > in > > > > > a self extracting script (using makeself). If you ran it, it would > > > serve > > > > > the packages in that bundle as a local PyPI mirror which you could > > > > > install off of. > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Cordially, > > > > > Noufal > > > > > http://nibrahim.net.in > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > BangPypers mailing list > > > > > BangPypers at python.org > > > > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > BangPypers mailing list > > > > BangPypers at python.org > > > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene > > > google plus: > > > http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BangPypers mailing list > > > BangPypers at python.org > > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From mandarvaze at gmail.com Sun Sep 15 05:44:05 2013 From: mandarvaze at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWFuZGFyIFZhemUgLyDgpK7gpILgpKbgpL7gpLAg4KS14KSd4KWH?=) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 09:14:05 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Mail formatting for this list In-Reply-To: References: <877gej4pd5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: > I dont understand. What's your viewport width? Can that only support 80ish > chars? Are you on mobile/tablet? > It is not uncommon for people to read/respond to emails on mobile/tablet. So for emails, 80-character width isn't bad choice. On the other hand, most people code only on screens that definitely support more than 80-characters horizontally. (I mean no one reads/writes code on mobile/tablet or general smaller screens) -Mandar From aditya at thinrhino.net.in Sun Sep 15 06:41:24 2013 From: aditya at thinrhino.net.in (Aditya Laghate) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 10:11:24 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Mail formatting for this list In-Reply-To: References: <877gej4pd5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <20130915044124.GA9656@TR.local> On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 09:14:05AM +0530, Mandar Vaze / ????? ??? wrote: > > I dont understand. What's your viewport width? Can that only support 80ish > > chars? Are you on mobile/tablet? > > > > It is not uncommon for people to read/respond to emails on mobile/tablet. > So for emails, 80-character width isn't bad choice. I really don't see any reason as to why we are havng this conversation, when we can set the width of the reading pane / window at our end and get the text to wrap to our personal preference of reading mail. I personally, don't like the mailing list breaking the text at 80 characters, since it breaks my mail reading pane preferences! From supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com Sun Sep 15 09:04:45 2013 From: supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com (s|s) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 12:34:45 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [Announce] Online Python workshop In-Reply-To: <87six7z5dn.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87d2ok3pky.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87six7z5dn.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 10:51 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > > I just wrapped this up earlier today and have the course notes and IRC > transcript at > > > http://thelycaeum.in/online-workshops/python-14-Sep-2013/python-14-sep-2013.html > > Comments welcome. > > Thanks! > Thanks Noufal, Great effort. Would it be possible for you to inform little more in advance? I would like to be part of your online workshop, next whenever it happens. Regards > > Noufal Ibrahim writes: > > > Hello everyone, > > I'm planning to do a small online Python workshop on the 14th > > (this Saturday). I've made the announcement on my website at > > http://thelycaeum.in/blog/2013/09/04/online_course_on_basic_python/ > > > > I'm specifically targetting college students. If you've been > > using python professionally for a year, I don't think you'll learn > > much. I'm looking mostly at newbies. > > > > The registration link is on the website. Please sign up if > > you're interested and help spread the word. > > > > Thanks. > > -- > Cordially, > Noufal > http://nibrahim.net.in > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Supreet Sethi Ph UK: +447859172473 Ph IN: +919811143517 Ph Skype: d_j_i_n_n Profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/supreet.sethi Twt: http://twitter.com/djinn From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Sun Sep 15 09:27:44 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 12:57:44 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [Announce] Online Python workshop In-Reply-To: (s|s's message of "Sun, 15 Sep 2013 12:34:45 +0530") References: <87d2ok3pky.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87six7z5dn.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <87mwnesfwv.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> "s|s" writes: [...] > Great effort. Would it be possible for you to inform little more in > advance? I would like to be part of your online workshop, next whenever it > happens. I did email the list in advance but there was another high traffic thread going on at the time. I blogged about it on The Lycaeum website. It was mostly targetted at college students so I'm not sure whether it would be any use to the people on the list. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From sriramnrn at gmail.com Sun Sep 15 09:15:16 2013 From: sriramnrn at gmail.com (Sriram Narayanan) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 12:45:16 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [Announce] Online Python workshop In-Reply-To: <87mwnesfwv.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87d2ok3pky.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87six7z5dn.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87mwnesfwv.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > "s|s" writes: > > [...] > > > Great effort. Would it be possible for you to inform little more in > > advance? I would like to be part of your online workshop, next whenever > it > > happens. > > I did email the list in advance but there was another high traffic > thread going on at the time. > > I blogged about it on The Lycaeum website. It was mostly targetted at > college students so I'm not sure whether it would be any use to the > people on the list. > I forgot all about this event. Great compilation, Noufal ! I go through it and provide feedback, if any. -- Sriram > > [...] > > > -- > Cordially, > Noufal > http://nibrahim.net.in > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- ------------------------------------ Belenix: www.belenix.org Twitter: @sriramnrn From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Sun Sep 15 10:02:59 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 13:32:59 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [Announce] Online Python workshop In-Reply-To: (Sriram Narayanan's message of "Sun, 15 Sep 2013 12:45:16 +0530") References: <87d2ok3pky.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87six7z5dn.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87mwnesfwv.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <877geiwlzg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Sriram Narayanan writes: [...] > I forgot all about this event. Great compilation, Noufal ! I go through it > and provide feedback, if any. Thank you Sriram. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From a.koppad at gmail.com Sun Sep 15 11:45:11 2013 From: a.koppad at gmail.com (Annapoornima Koppad) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 15:15:11 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [Announce] Online Python workshop In-Reply-To: <877geiwlzg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87d2ok3pky.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87six7z5dn.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87mwnesfwv.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <877geiwlzg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: HI Noufal, Thanks for the tutorial. I read through the tutorial. The topic was definitely different than most of the tutorials that are online. So I have to write the code myself before I give other comments. Mostly from what I read, I understand that it is clearly explained. Nicely put. Thanks once again. Regards, Annapoornima On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Sriram Narayanan writes: > > > [...] > > > I forgot all about this event. Great compilation, Noufal ! I go through > it > > and provide feedback, if any. > > Thank you Sriram. > > [...] > > > -- > Cordially, > Noufal > http://nibrahim.net.in > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Sun Sep 15 13:21:10 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 16:51:10 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Debugging functions/tools/ways In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sep 14, 2013 11:00 AM, "Balachandran Sivakumar" wrote: > When you find some time, please do post a few Python > dtrace one-liners here. It would be useful to the rest of us. Thanks Oh... man... I want to +1 this... so... many... times!!! Ram, you should totally share your experiences with this. - d From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Sun Sep 15 15:00:22 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 18:30:22 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [Announce] Online Python workshop In-Reply-To: (Annapoornima Koppad's message of "Sun, 15 Sep 2013 15:15:11 +0530") References: <87d2ok3pky.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87six7z5dn.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87mwnesfwv.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <877geiwlzg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <871u4qw87t.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Annapoornima Koppad writes: > HI Noufal, > > Thanks for the tutorial. I read through the tutorial. The topic was > definitely different than most of the tutorials that are online. So I have > to write the code myself before I give other comments. Thanks. I'd appreciate the feedback. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From vpuri.social at gmail.com Sun Sep 15 15:14:22 2013 From: vpuri.social at gmail.com (Vivek Puri) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 18:44:22 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <87txhn3gb5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <878uyz1fyc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <5235B2AE.4000906@gmail.com> > I was perhaps misunderstood. If you test (even with say travis) but without > a pinned requirements.txt, and then create a dist and later deploy the dist > onto the server using a pip install (w/o a requirements.txt) then you no > longer have a repeatability in terms of transient dependencies. Because > travis may have used a version x.y of a transient dependency but the actual > deployment may end up using version x.(y+1) if the dependency in setup.py > of a dist you directly used specified the transient dependency as >= x.0 > say. > > Or then perhaps I couldn't understand something. > I also feel your understanding is correct. Using some form of CI like travis is good but it doesn't rule out pinning the requirements. Maybe kiran has unlimited resources rgds vivek From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Sun Sep 15 17:55:20 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 21:25:20 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Regd feedback (was: Online Python workshop) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sep 15, 2013 6:12 PM, "Noufal Ibrahim" wrote: > > Annapoornima Koppad writes: > > > HI Noufal, > > > > Thanks for the tutorial. I read through the tutorial. The topic was > > definitely different than most of the tutorials that are online. So I have > > to write the code myself before I give other comments. > > Thanks. I'd appreciate the feedback. Dude, what's the best way to send you feedback on this? Do we just mail you or is there a repo we can comment/pull from? - d From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Sun Sep 15 17:58:06 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 21:28:06 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Regd feedback (was: Online Python workshop) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 9:25 PM, Saager Mhatre wrote: > > On Sep 15, 2013 6:12 PM, "Noufal Ibrahim" wrote: > > > > Annapoornima Koppad writes: > > > > > HI Noufal, > > > > > > Thanks for the tutorial. I read through the tutorial. The topic was > > > definitely different than most of the tutorials that are online. So I > have > > > to write the code myself before I give other comments. > > > > Thanks. I'd appreciate the feedback. > > Dude, what's the best way to send you feedback on this? Do we just mail > you or is there a repo we can comment/pull from? > (facepalm) Apologies, I intended to send this just to Noufal; accidentally sent to list. > - d > From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Sun Sep 15 18:57:49 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 22:27:49 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Regd feedback In-Reply-To: (Saager Mhatre's message of "Sun, 15 Sep 2013 21:25:20 +0530") References: Message-ID: <8738p6uinm.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Saager Mhatre writes: [...] > Dude, what's the best way to send you feedback on this? Do we just > mail you or is there a repo we can comment/pull from? Email me. It's version controlled but not on Github. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Sun Sep 15 18:52:09 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 22:22:09 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Mail formatting for this list In-Reply-To: References: <877gej4pd5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ??? < mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote: > > I dont understand. What's your viewport width? Can that only support > 80ish > > chars? Are you on mobile/tablet? > > > > It is not uncommon for people to read/respond to emails on mobile/tablet. > So for emails, 80-character width isn't bad choice. > My Google Nexus 7 wrapped your mail thusly => http://twitpic.com/ddnb3k 'Nuff said. - d From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Sun Sep 15 19:12:54 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 22:42:54 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Mail formatting for this list In-Reply-To: References: <877gej4pd5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ??? < mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote: > On the other hand, most people code only on screens that definitely support > more than 80-characters horizontally. (I mean no one reads/writes code on > mobile/tablet or general smaller screens) print '\n'.join(map( lambda d: "As for {0} code on a mobile/tablet; I don't know about you, but I {1}.".format(*d), [('reading', 'often read code off my Nexus 7 using the GitHub app'), ('writing', 'once put together a Gradle script on a Gist and mailed it to the office while at PNQ airport')] )) YMMV - d From deepu.dtp at gmail.com Sun Sep 15 21:04:28 2013 From: deepu.dtp at gmail.com (Deepu Thomas Philip) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 00:34:28 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] NLTK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Take a look at Apache Solr (http://lucene.apache.org/solr/). You can find python clients for Solr here http://wiki.apache.org/solr/SolPython For a quick solution, add all your products to solr with the name of the product as an indexed field. Add the *product id* if you plan on storing specs elsewhere. Add all the spec names to a list of stopwords while creating your solr index. Throw the user's query against the index and you should get a list of products rank ordered by a match score between the query and the product names stored. Remove the product name from the user's query and then do a match for the spec the user is looking for. You can use regular expressions or https://code.google.com/p/esmre/ for this. You should be able to account for spelling errors in the user's query with a little more work on the Solr side of things. Solr will also open up use cases where the user wants a list of phones which weigh 200g and costs <10k. Regards, Deepu On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Gopalakrishnan Subramani < gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com> wrote: > I have database of specs in json format. This is not manual effort. > > Right now, NLTK seems to be hard to me. I will try a plain Python wrappers > based on word match, approach NLTK later. > > Thanks. > > > On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 11:29 AM, harish badrinath < > harishbadrinath at gmail.com > > wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 2:34 AM, Gopalakrishnan Subramani < > > gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > I want to build a simple automatic text based chat bot for mobile, > > tablet > > > specs for proof of concept. > > > > > > How do you plan to preseed the knowledge for the application (manually > or > > information extraction through webpages,etc). > > > > > > > The question is, when the user talks about "Samsung Galaxy S3 Weight", > > > "Galaxy SIII Weight", can NLTK predict a product (ex: Galaxy SIII) and > > give > > > me the unique _id of the product for further look up for > group/attribute > > > like weight? > > > > > > If it is manually enter the knowledge then nltk should not be required > ( > > something like yacc plus a good database schema should suffice, again > > depends on the type of input language you plan to support). > > > > Warm regards, > > Harish Badrinath > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From jace at pobox.com Sun Sep 15 21:07:50 2013 From: jace at pobox.com (Kiran Jonnalagadda) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 00:37:50 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: <5235B2AE.4000906@gmail.com> References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <87txhn3gb5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <878uyz1fyc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <5235B2AE.4000906@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 6:44 PM, Vivek Puri wrote: > I also feel your understanding is correct. Using some form of CI like > travis is good > but it doesn't rule out pinning the requirements. > Maybe kiran has unlimited resources > I only have more experience with long term maintenance of code. Pinned requirements == complacency == future breakage, when maintenance is much more expensive than it is today. We deploy multiple times a day and I don't find that the gap between a Travis test and production deployment is so long that an upstream release within those few seconds broke compatibility. Kiran -- Kiran Jonnalagadda http://jace.zaiki.in http://hasgeek.com From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Sun Sep 15 22:55:43 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 02:25:43 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <87txhn3gb5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <878uyz1fyc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <5235B2AE.4000906@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sep 16, 2013 12:38 AM, "Kiran Jonnalagadda" wrote: > > We deploy multiple times a day and I don't find that the gap between a > Travis test and production deployment is so long that an upstream release > within those few seconds broke compatibility. > > Kiran > Dude, can I quote you on that? 'Cause that's probably *the* most awesome pitch for agile, lean, fail early-fail often, short feedback loops, automation, CI & CD all rolled into one that I've heard in quite a while! Like, totally WOW! - d From svaksha at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 04:32:55 2013 From: svaksha at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?c3Zha3NoYSDgpaUg4KS44KWN4KS14KSV4KWN4KS3?=) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 02:32:55 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] virtualenvs [was] Online Python workshop Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 5:21 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > > I just wrapped this up earlier today and have the course notes and IRC > transcript at > > http://thelycaeum.in/online-workshops/python-14-Sep-2013/python-14-sep-2013.html > > Comments welcome. Regarding the virtualenv, for each project, I prefer to tie it to the specific python version (ex. /usr/bin/python3.3) and also prefer the flag "--no-site-packages". This means I'd have to install the required packages inside the env, specific for each python version. This probably takes the isolated env concept a bit far, but I personally feel its cleaner. I had some more thoughts but that's for later. And ofcourse, nice work Noufal ! Best, svaksha ? ?????? From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Mon Sep 16 05:00:55 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 08:30:55 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: (Kiran Jonnalagadda's message of "Mon, 16 Sep 2013 00:37:50 +0530") References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <87txhn3gb5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <878uyz1fyc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <5235B2AE.4000906@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87wqmhtqqg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Kiran Jonnalagadda writes: [...] > I only have more experience with long term maintenance of code. > > Pinned requirements == complacency == future breakage, when maintenance is > much more expensive than it is today. > > We deploy multiple times a day and I don't find that the gap between a > Travis test and production deployment is so long that an upstream release > within those few seconds broke compatibility. You've obviously zeroed in a workflow that works for you. My general experience is that pinning requirements reduces daily headaches but I can see (and have felt) the long term bitrot problem you've talked about. Maybe I should try doing things this way. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From svaksha at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 05:05:25 2013 From: svaksha at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?c3Zha3NoYSDgpaUg4KS44KWN4KS14KSV4KWN4KS3?=) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 03:05:25 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <87txhn3gb5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <878uyz1fyc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <5235B2AE.4000906@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Saager Mhatre wrote: > On Sep 16, 2013 12:38 AM, "Kiran Jonnalagadda" wrote: >> >> We deploy multiple times a day and I don't find that the gap between a >> Travis test and production deployment is so long that an upstream release >> within those few seconds broke compatibility. >> >> Kiran >> > > Dude, can I quote you on that? 'Cause that's probably *the* most awesome > pitch for agile, lean, fail early-fail often, short feedback loops, This largely depends on the development model (read, the what and where) - Agile works well for the service model but for larger and more complex systems (think BigData, multiple types of databases), stability matters a lot more. It is definitely a trade-off but there isnt a single model that works well for everyone as that choice depends on what you develop and where. svaksha ? ?????? From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 05:16:31 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 08:46:31 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <87txhn3gb5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <878uyz1fyc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <5235B2AE.4000906@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 12:37 AM, Kiran Jonnalagadda wrote: > > > Pinned requirements == complacency == future breakage, when maintenance is > much more expensive than it is today. imo there are is two underlying independent issues here. Having said that let me state that while I pin requirements.txt, and started responding to this thread earlier with a bit of ambivalence on the issue, I have moved closer to the pinning requirements.txt as an appropriate solution for me as the thread has evolved. 1) Complacency : This simply has to do with how frequently one does builds / creates dists that are used for deployment. A scenario where one continuously recreates a fresh virtualenv and regenerates requirements.txt "before" everytime one re-runs a test-suite, should fix it. It is not tied to whether a requirements.txt is being used or not. I am still working through what is the implication for automation for dealing with this. Clearly one would need to find a way of associating a version / tag / commit with a last successfully tested requirement.txt. I am not yet sure of how one would go around doing that. Though that is something I intend to spend time on. 2) Repeatability : Was the software you tested, the software you deployed. This could be fixed by one of multiple approaches a) Bundled dependencies b) Pinned requirements.txt I acknowledge the implication in terms of potential rot. I think I shall be working on fixing (1) without compromising on (2) rather than treating them as mutually exclusive. There are too many contextual variables here, so please don't assume I am making a recommendation. The above seems to be the best I think I should be doing. YMMV. From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 06:02:51 2013 From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 09:32:51 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] NLTK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Deepu. This seems to be viable approach. ElasticSearch does similar? On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 12:34 AM, Deepu Thomas Philip wrote: > Take a look at Apache Solr (http://lucene.apache.org/solr/). > You can find python clients for Solr here > http://wiki.apache.org/solr/SolPython > > For a quick solution, add all your products to solr with the name of the > product as an indexed field. > Add the *product id* if you plan on storing specs elsewhere. > Add all the spec names to a list of stopwords while creating your solr > index. > Throw the user's query against the index and you should get a list of > products rank ordered by a match score between the query and the product > names stored. > Remove the product name from the user's query and then do a match for the > spec the user is looking for. You can use regular expressions or > https://code.google.com/p/esmre/ for this. > > You should be able to account for spelling errors in the user's query with > a little more work on the Solr side of things. Solr will also open up use > cases where the user wants a list of phones which weigh 200g and costs > <10k. > > Regards, > Deepu > > On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Gopalakrishnan Subramani < > gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com> wrote: > > > I have database of specs in json format. This is not manual effort. > > > > Right now, NLTK seems to be hard to me. I will try a plain Python > wrappers > > based on word match, approach NLTK later. > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 11:29 AM, harish badrinath < > > harishbadrinath at gmail.com > > > wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 2:34 AM, Gopalakrishnan Subramani < > > > gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > I want to build a simple automatic text based chat bot for mobile, > > > tablet > > > > specs for proof of concept. > > > > > > > > How do you plan to preseed the knowledge for the application > (manually > > or > > > information extraction through webpages,etc). > > > > > > > > > > The question is, when the user talks about "Samsung Galaxy S3 > Weight", > > > > "Galaxy SIII Weight", can NLTK predict a product (ex: Galaxy SIII) > and > > > give > > > > me the unique _id of the product for further look up for > > group/attribute > > > > like weight? > > > > > > > > If it is manually enter the knowledge then nltk should not be > required > > ( > > > something like yacc plus a good database schema should suffice, again > > > depends on the type of input language you plan to support). > > > > > > Warm regards, > > > Harish Badrinath > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BangPypers mailing list > > > BangPypers at python.org > > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From vpuri.social at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 06:45:27 2013 From: vpuri.social at gmail.com (Vivek Puri) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 10:15:27 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <87txhn3gb5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <878uyz1fyc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <5235B2AE.4000906@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52368CE7.8090409@gmail.com> > I only have more experience with long term maintenance of code. I am quite positive that people who are in favour of pinning have experience in equally long term maintenance of code. > Pinned requirements == complacency == future breakage, when > maintenance is much more expensive than it is today. > > We deploy multiple times a day and I don't find that the gap between a > Travis test and production deployment is so long that an upstream > release within those few seconds broke compatibility. > That is very simplistic view. We unfortunately can't deploy multiple times in a day. And we have limited resources that any update of a dependent package is taken as a separate exercise. For us we are also dependent on communication with the client which completely rules out unplanned releases. rgds vivek From vpuri.social at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 06:49:40 2013 From: vpuri.social at gmail.com (Vivek Puri) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 10:19:40 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <87txhn3gb5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <878uyz1fyc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <5235B2AE.4000906@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52368DE4.3020705@gmail.com> > This largely depends on the development model (read, the what and > where) - Agile works well for the service model but for larger and > more complex systems (think BigData, multiple types of databases), > stability matters a lot more. I find that agile works best for both service and products as long as you have an higher than average skileld team which is also committed to agile. > It is definitely a trade-off but there > isnt a single model that works well for everyone as that choice > depends on what you develop and where. > That is fair assessment, stability and client interaction also play very important factor as well. rgds vivek From benignbala at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 07:15:28 2013 From: benignbala at gmail.com (Balachandran Sivakumar) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 10:45:28 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] virtualenvs [was] Online Python workshop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 8:02 AM, svaksha ? ?????? wrote: > specific python version (ex. /usr/bin/python3.3) and also prefer the > flag "--no-site-packages". This means I'd have to install the required > packages inside the env, specific for each python version. This --no-site-packages is the default behaviour of virtualenv now(has been for at least a little of an year or so now). So, we don't have to explicitly specify --no-site-packages. Thanks -- Thank you Balachandran Sivakumar Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. - Swami Vivekananda From svaksha at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 07:35:43 2013 From: svaksha at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?c3Zha3NoYSDgpaUg4KS44KWN4KS14KSV4KWN4KS3?=) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 05:35:43 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] virtualenvs [was] Online Python workshop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 5:15 AM, Balachandran Sivakumar wrote: > --no-site-packages is the default behaviour of virtualenv Thanks, I've not been following the *-dev news, https://virtualenv.readthedocs.org/en/latest/news.html?highlight=flags#id9 svaksha ? ?????? From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 08:30:43 2013 From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 12:00:43 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] virtualenvs [was] Online Python workshop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was not aware that --no-site-packages is default now. Thanks for info. On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Balachandran Sivakumar < benignbala at gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 8:02 AM, svaksha ? ?????? > wrote: > > specific python version (ex. /usr/bin/python3.3) and also prefer the > > flag "--no-site-packages". This means I'd have to install the required > > packages inside the env, specific for each python version. This > > --no-site-packages is the default behaviour of virtualenv > now(has been for at least a little of an year or so now). So, we don't > have to explicitly specify --no-site-packages. Thanks > > -- > Thank you > Balachandran Sivakumar > > Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. > - Swami > Vivekananda > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From bhatt.suyash at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 08:57:47 2013 From: bhatt.suyash at gmail.com (Suyash Bhatt) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 12:27:47 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] need help w.r.t itertools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: thanks for the response.. what if i have another list *e = [*'*my1name1is1','**my2name2is1','xyz','abc']* *and in the list d, I want only the elements which are present in e..* * * *in such a case,* *d should have only 2 elements : ['**my1name1is1','**my2name2is1']* * * i want the way with the least cyclomatic complexity to be able to do all this!! FYR : *a=[?my1?,?my2?] * ** *b=[?name1?,?name2?]* *c=[?is1?]* I want to iter through all and form another list with the following appended strings: *d=['my1name1is1','my1name2is1','my2name1is1','my2name2is1']* Can this be done in a single line using the itertools module?? Regards, Suyash On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 6:09 PM, Saager Mhatre wrote: > On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Dhruv Baldawa >wrote: > > > d = [''.join(x) for x in itertools.product(a, b, c)] > > > > Actually, using itertools.imap would ensure that the elements aren't > computed till necessary. So... > > d = itertools.imap(''.join, itertools.product(a, b, c)) > > - d > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 09:19:53 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 12:49:53 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] need help w.r.t itertools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Suyash Bhatt wrote: > thanks for the response.. > > what if i have another list > > *e = [*'*my1name1is1','**my2name2is1','xyz','abc']* > *and in the list d, I want only the elements which are present in e..* > * Python 2.7.3 (default, Apr 10 2013, 05:13:16) [GCC 4.7.2] on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> import itertools >>> >>> a = ['my1','my2'] >>> b = ['name1', 'name2'] >>> c = ['my1', 'my2'] >>> e = ['my1name1my1','my1name2my1','foobar'] >>> d = [y for y in (''.join(x) for x in itertools.product(a, b, c)) if y in e] >>> >>> d ['my1name1my1', 'my1name2my1'] >>> From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 12:11:05 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 15:41:05 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] need help w.r.t itertools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sep 16, 2013 12:50 PM, "Dhananjay Nene" wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Suyash Bhatt wrote: > > thanks for the response.. > > > > what if i have another list > > > > *e = [*'*my1name1is1','**my2name2is1','xyz','abc']* > > *and in the list d, I want only the elements which are present in e..* > > * > Python 2.7.3 (default, Apr 10 2013, 05:13:16) > [GCC 4.7.2] on linux2 > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. > >>> import itertools > >>> > >>> a = ['my1','my2'] > >>> b = ['name1', 'name2'] > >>> c = ['my1', 'my2'] > >>> e = ['my1name1my1','my1name2my1','foobar'] > >>> d = [y for y in (''.join(x) for x in itertools.product(a, b, c)) if y in e] > >>> > >>> d > ['my1name1my1', 'my1name2my1'] Suyash, Again, since you started with itertools, I'm assuming you don't want to have the entire lost evaluated before hand. In which case you're looking for the itertools.ifilter [ http://docs.python.org/2.7/library/itertools.html#itertools.ifilter ] function. Alternatively, you could just change that last statement to be a generator expression instead of a lost comprehension[1]. I suggest you sit down with the itertools docs [ http://docs.python.org/2.7/library/itertools.html ] open in one window, a python console in another; and experiment with the tool set provided to see how best you can express your problem. The module is one of the better documented ones and is reasonably intuitive. Feel free to get back to the list with any specific technical issues you encounter, but, IMHO, us regurgitating the relevant docs here is not the best use of either of our time. That said, this thread is starting to smell of the XY Problem [ http://bit.ly/XyProblem ]. Suyash, it will probably be very helpful to all if you could give us a general idea of what it is that you are trying to achieve with all these tid-bits of information. Maybe could someone could point you to a simple or more appropriate solution. - d [1] unless I'm missing something and list comprehension are inherently lazy. From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 12:48:19 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 16:18:19 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <87txhn3gb5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <878uyz1fyc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <5235B2AE.4000906@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sep 16, 2013 8:46 AM, "Dhananjay Nene" wrote: > let me state that while I pin requirements.txt To be just a little pedantic here- you pin version of dependencies, not the entire requirements.txt. Just saying... 'cause, even though I may have myself used the phrase in previous responses on this thread, I personally prefer to specify dependencies in setup.py and avoid creating a separate requirements.txt file. Either approach could very well be put down as a stylistic difference, but the specific compatibility of these approaches with different build tools (distutils, setuptools/easy_install, distribute/pip) makes it significant, IMHO. Noufal, maybe this could be something to consider exploring in your course. That said, I can't believe what a wonderful conversation this has turned into. For the benefit of members outside the overlap, I'm cross posting to the other python lists with a link to the entire conversation => http://bit.ly/16c6Kv8 - d From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 14:08:04 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 17:38:04 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <87txhn3gb5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <878uyz1fyc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <5235B2AE.4000906@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Saager Mhatre wrote: > On Sep 16, 2013 8:46 AM, "Dhananjay Nene" wrote: >> let me state that while I pin requirements.txt > > To be just a little pedantic here- you pin version of dependencies, not the > entire requirements.txt. Matching the pedantic spirit => Look at the topic of the thread. It could've just ended with a No. If you read other content here, I've talked about generating requirements.txt using pip freeze just before "re-running a test suite" and associating a requirements.txt with a commit (in a scenario where one would want to use the latest and the greatest of dependencies to reduce complacency). > Just saying... 'cause, even though I may have > myself used the phrase in previous responses on this thread, I personally > prefer to specify dependencies in setup.py and avoid creating a separate > requirements.txt file. Fair enough. A alternative valid on its own merit. > Either approach could very well be put down as a > stylistic difference, No. A stylistic difference implies no non-aesthetic differences. The first level dependencies might have specified a dependency as "foolib >= x.y". Guess what, now you can get foolib of x.z where z >= y. Both are reasonable roads to travel. They don't take you to the same place. > but the specific compatibility of these approaches > with different build tools (distutils, setuptools/easy_install, > distribute/pip) makes it significant, IMHO. > That is something I would be keen to understand. (Should be a separate thread imo). From saager.mhatre at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 19:51:48 2013 From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 23:21:48 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Do you pin your requirements.txt ? In-Reply-To: References: <5231B070.7030909@bibhas.in> <87txhn3gb5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <878uyz1fyc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <5235B2AE.4000906@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 5:38 PM, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Saager Mhatre > wrote: > > On Sep 16, 2013 8:46 AM, "Dhananjay Nene" > wrote: > >> let me state that while I pin requirements.txt > > > > To be just a little pedantic here- you pin version of dependencies, not > the > > entire requirements.txt. > > Matching the pedantic spirit => Look at the topic of the thread. It > could've just ended with a No. > > If you read other content here, I've talked about [...] > Dhananjay, I was being pedantic in general. That wasn't directed specifically at anyone in particular. > Just saying... 'cause, even though I may have > > myself used the phrase in previous responses on this thread, I personally > > prefer to specify dependencies in setup.py and avoid creating a separate > > requirements.txt file. > > Fair enough. A alternative valid on its own merit. > > > Either approach could very well be put down as a > > stylistic difference, > > No. A stylistic difference implies no non-aesthetic differences. Now that I reread that, I meant stylistic 'preference' not 'difference'. Either way, I was referring to my stylistic preference of specifying dependencies in setup.py over specifying them in requirements.txt. It is possible to pin direct as well as transitive dependencies in both approaches; which is what makes them only stylistically different. > but the specific compatibility of these approaches > > with different build tools (distutils, setuptools/easy_install, > > distribute/pip) makes it significant, IMHO. > > > > That is something I would be keen to understand. (Should be a separate > thread imo). Some other time... I don't feel like raging any more this month. Just finished my quota while mentoring the teams at in50Hrs this weekend. - d From amit.pureenergy at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 22:54:17 2013 From: amit.pureenergy at gmail.com (Amit Sethi) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 02:24:17 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Functional testing wih headless browser framework Message-ID: Hi , I am looking to add some functional testing to my application. I have seen a couple of tools via google search but the reason I am a little circumspect is that last time, I did something similar using selenium and it seemed lack some requirements of mine.(It was not exacty headless) Any toolset I should have: 1. Run some javascript. 2. Headless . I should be able run it on a cli or integrate with jenkins/travis etc.. 3. Easy to install . I should be able to install it easily with my buildout setup 4. I should be able to seemlessly integrate it with nose testing. 5. If I can integrate it with BDD testing framework that would be ideal. It will be great if somebody can give some nice pointers in this regard. Thanks Amit -- A-M-I-T S|S From psjinx at gmail.com Tue Sep 17 00:46:47 2013 From: psjinx at gmail.com (Pankaj Singh) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 04:16:47 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Functional testing wih headless browser framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey, I started using PhantomJS (http://phantomjs.org/), headless webkit with javascript, recently for behavior driven development with Django. PhantomJS is very easy to setup and Splinter (http://splinter.cobrateam.info/) has out of box support for it ( http://splinter.cobrateam.info/docs/drivers/phantomjs.html). For BDD I have been using https://github.com/behave/behave. I was able to get everything running on Jenkins very smoothly. On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 2:24 AM, Amit Sethi wrote: > Hi , > > I am looking to add some functional testing to my application. I have seen > a couple of tools via google search but the reason I am a little > circumspect is that last time, I did something similar using selenium and > it seemed lack some requirements of mine.(It was not exacty headless) > > Any toolset I should have: > 1. Run some javascript. > > 2. Headless . I should be able run it on a cli or integrate with > jenkins/travis etc.. > > 3. Easy to install . I should be able to install it easily with my buildout > setup > > 4. I should be able to seemlessly integrate it with nose testing. > > 5. If I can integrate it with BDD testing framework that would be ideal. > > It will be great if somebody can give some nice pointers in this regard. > > Thanks > Amit > > > -- > A-M-I-T S|S > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Regards, Pankaj From noorul at noorul.com Tue Sep 17 03:19:24 2013 From: noorul at noorul.com (Noorul Islam Kamal Malmiyoda) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 06:49:24 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Functional testing wih headless browser framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sep 17, 2013 2:25 AM, "Amit Sethi" wrote: > > Hi , > > I am looking to add some functional testing to my application. I have seen > a couple of tools via google search but the reason I am a little > circumspect is that last time, I did something similar using selenium and > it seemed lack some requirements of mine.(It was not exacty headless) > > Any toolset I should have: > 1. Run some javascript. > > 2. Headless . I should be able run it on a cli or integrate with > jenkins/travis etc.. > > 3. Easy to install . I should be able to install it easily with my buildout > setup > > 4. I should be able to seemlessly integrate it with nose testing. > > 5. If I can integrate it with BDD testing framework that would be ideal. > > It will be great if somebody can give some nice pointers in this regard. > Have you tried/evaluated Canoo Webtest? Thanks and Regards Noorul From svaksha at gmail.com Tue Sep 17 04:34:16 2013 From: svaksha at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?c3Zha3NoYSDgpaUg4KS44KWN4KS14KSV4KWN4KS3?=) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 02:34:16 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] Functional testing wih headless browser framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Amit Sethi wrote: > Hi , > > I am looking to add some functional testing to my application. I have seen > a couple of tools via google search but the reason I am a little > circumspect is that last time, I did something similar using selenium and > it seemed lack some requirements of mine.(It was not exacty headless) I've only experimented with funkload (more of a regression/ load/ stress testing tool) but here is a longer list: 1. Funkload, https://github.com/nuxeo/FunkLoad 2. Programmatic web browsing module with AJAX support for Python, http://pypi.python.org/pypi/spynner 3. http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/allpairs/ 4. https://github.com/gabrielpjordao/pyfunct svaksha ? ?????? From svaksha at gmail.com Tue Sep 17 04:47:10 2013 From: svaksha at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?c3Zha3NoYSDgpaUg4KS44KWN4KS14KSV4KWN4KS3?=) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 02:47:10 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] Functional testing wih headless browser framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 2:34 AM, svaksha ? ?????? wrote: > On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Amit Sethi wrote: >> Hi , >> >> I am looking to add some functional testing to my application. I have seen >> a couple of tools via google search but the reason I am a little >> circumspect is that last time, I did something similar using selenium and >> it seemed lack some requirements of mine.(It was not exacty headless) > > I've only experimented with funkload (more of a regression/ load/ > stress testing tool) but here is a longer list: > 1. Funkload, https://github.com/nuxeo/FunkLoad > 2. Programmatic web browsing module with AJAX support for Python, > http://pypi.python.org/pypi/spynner > 3. http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/allpairs/ > 4. https://github.com/gabrielpjordao/pyfunct 5. https://pypi.python.org/pypi/oejskit svaksha ? ?????? From vnbang2003 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 17 04:53:56 2013 From: vnbang2003 at yahoo.com (vijay) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 10:53:56 +0800 (SGT) Subject: [BangPypers] Volunteer for Conduct Basic Python workshop at GEC Hassan on 21st of Sept In-Reply-To: <1378964302.21928.YahooMailNeo@web192206.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> References: <1378964302.21928.YahooMailNeo@web192206.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1379386436.12755.YahooMailNeo@web192206.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Can we please get volunteer for this as we are nearing 21st sept. We can have two member team to manage the workshop. ________________________________ From: vijay To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2013 11:08 AM Subject: Volunteer for Conduct Basic Python workshop at GEC Hassan on 21st of Sept Hi, ? ? We need volunteer to conduct Basic Python workshop at Govt Engineering college , Hassan on Sept 21st? ? ? Expected Student Strength : ?60. ? ? Travel and Food expense will be taken care by college. With Thanks Vijay From vnbang2003 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 17 05:14:02 2013 From: vnbang2003 at yahoo.com (vijay) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 11:14:02 +0800 (SGT) Subject: [BangPypers] Volunteer to conduct Workshop at PA College of Engineering Mangalore on 28th and 29th Message-ID: <1379387642.12759.YahooMailNeo@web192205.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Hi, ? ? We got request to conduct Python workshop at PA college of engineering , Mangalore on Sept 28th and 29th. ? ? Tracks: 4 parallel track ? ? No of?Volunteers: 4? ? ? Expected Student Strength : ?approx 200. ? ? Travel ,?Accommodation?and Food expense will be taken care by college. With Thanks Vijay From dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com Tue Sep 17 12:51:02 2013 From: dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com (Dhruv Baldawa) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 16:21:02 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Functional testing wih headless browser framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have tried setting up PhantomJS, Selenium earlier, but I found ZombieJSfar more lightweight and fast in terms of test execution. Some sample test code: https://github.com/dhruvbaldawa/drophere/blob/master/test/test_client.coffee -- Dhruv Baldawa (http://www.dhruvb.com) On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 8:17 AM, svaksha ? ?????? wrote: > On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 2:34 AM, svaksha ? ?????? > wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Amit Sethi > wrote: > >> Hi , > >> > >> I am looking to add some functional testing to my application. I have > seen > >> a couple of tools via google search but the reason I am a little > >> circumspect is that last time, I did something similar using selenium > and > >> it seemed lack some requirements of mine.(It was not exacty headless) > > > > I've only experimented with funkload (more of a regression/ load/ > > stress testing tool) but here is a longer list: > > 1. Funkload, https://github.com/nuxeo/FunkLoad > > 2. Programmatic web browsing module with AJAX support for Python, > > http://pypi.python.org/pypi/spynner > > 3. http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/allpairs/ > > 4. https://github.com/gabrielpjordao/pyfunct > 5. https://pypi.python.org/pypi/oejskit > svaksha ? ?????? > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From rmehta at gmail.com Tue Sep 17 14:11:30 2013 From: rmehta at gmail.com (Rushabh Mehta) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 17:41:30 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [JOB] Open Source Paid Development Message-ID: <25EB8450-F439-44BB-BE28-80E199F81BCB@erpnext.com> Dear all, ERPNext is an Open Source ERP and the user community needs developers! (user community >> developer community) and the kick start development, users are willing to give money to solve issues. Here is a small list of issues you can solve (for money) https://github.com/webnotes/erpnext/issues?labels=bounty%21&page=1&state=open If you are a freelancer, this might be of interest to you. If you think the amount is too small, please post against the issue. best, Rushabh W: https://erpnext.com T: @rushabh_mehta From kapoor.vaidik at gmail.com Wed Sep 18 07:52:36 2013 From: kapoor.vaidik at gmail.com (Vaidik Kapoor) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 11:22:36 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Functional testing wih headless browser framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I am looking to add some functional testing to my application. I have seen > a couple of tools via google search but the reason I am a little > circumspect is that last time, I did something similar using selenium and > it seemed lack some requirements of mine.(It was not exacty headless) I think you can run Selenium headless. I tried that before. Might be able to pull out a script for that out of an old project. - Vaidik From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Wed Sep 18 07:52:19 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 11:22:19 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [Announce] Online Python workshop In-Reply-To: <87six7z5dn.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> (Noufal Ibrahim's message of "Sat, 14 Sep 2013 22:51:08 +0530") References: <87d2ok3pky.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87six7z5dn.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <87ob7q8yng.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> I'm repeating this workshop once a week for a month. http://thelycaeum.in/blog/2013/09/18/online_basic_python_course/ -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From gora at mimirtech.com Wed Sep 18 07:59:09 2013 From: gora at mimirtech.com (Gora Mohanty) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 11:29:09 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Functional testing wih headless browser framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 17 September 2013 02:24, Amit Sethi wrote: > Hi , > > I am looking to add some functional testing to my application. I have seen > a couple of tools via google search but the reason I am a little > circumspect is that last time, I did something similar using selenium and > it seemed lack some requirements of mine.(It was not exacty headless) [...] If you are already familiar with Selenium, that is what I would go with. You can run Selenium headless with X11 and Xvfb (the old school method that works just fine), or with PhantomJS and Webkit. Regards, Gora From supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com Wed Sep 18 08:32:33 2013 From: supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com (s|s) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 12:02:33 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Functional testing wih headless browser framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: +1 Selenium with xvfb is your best bet. On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Gora Mohanty wrote: > On 17 September 2013 02:24, Amit Sethi wrote: > > Hi , > > > > I am looking to add some functional testing to my application. I have > seen > > a couple of tools via google search but the reason I am a little > > circumspect is that last time, I did something similar using selenium and > > it seemed lack some requirements of mine.(It was not exacty headless) > [...] > > If you are already familiar with Selenium, that is what I would > go with. You can run Selenium headless with X11 and Xvfb > (the old school method that works just fine), or with PhantomJS > and Webkit. > > Regards, > Gora > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Supreet Sethi Ph UK: +447859172473 Ph IN: +919811143517 Ph Skype: d_j_i_n_n Profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/supreet.sethi Twt: http://twitter.com/djinn From kracethekingmaker at gmail.com Wed Sep 18 08:50:32 2013 From: kracethekingmaker at gmail.com (kracekumar ramaraju) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 12:20:32 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] September Bangpypers meetup Message-ID: Hi All We have Bangpypers meetup on september from 3.00 PM to 6.00PM - http://www.meetup.com/BangPypers/events/125800202/. Unfortunately myself and Anand are unavailable. We don't venue and co-ordinator. We have 96 RSVPS but can expect 20 - 40 people depending on the location. We are looking for organizer and venue. Anyone up for it? -- * Thanks & Regards "Talk is cheap, show me the code" -- Linus Torvalds kracekumar www.kracekumar.com * From sneha.venkatraman at technicolor.com Wed Sep 18 10:48:23 2013 From: sneha.venkatraman at technicolor.com (Venkatraman Sneha) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 14:18:23 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [JOB] DreamWorks Dedicated Unit, Technicolor India: Pipeline Technical Director (TD) Message-ID: Openings at DreamWorks Dedicated Unit Technicolor, India (Bangalore) About the company: DreamWorks Animation is a leading producer of high-quality entertainment including CG animated feature films, television series and specials, that have included franchises such as Shrek, Madagascar, Kung Fu Panda. In mid-2008, DreamWorks Animation partnered with Technicolor India to create DreamWorks Dedicated Unit (DDU), Technicolor India, the first studio for DreamWorks Animation outside of the US, with the goal of creating a fully functioning studio for DreamWorks Animation in India. ?...We have transformed over the years from hand-drawn animation to computer-generated films to being a leader in 3D entertainment. Our strategy has remained the same: to produce great stories that are creatively driven and technologically state-of-the-art. In pursuit of this goal I?m proud to say that what defines DreamWorks Animation more than anything else is the dedication and the expertise of our people.? - Jeffrey Katzenberg, CEO, DreamWorks Animation SKG The Studio - Life at DDU While DDU operates under the HR umbrella of Technicolor India, the employees are provided the same world class facilities and work culture that has propelled DreamWorks Animation among the ?100 Best Companies to Work For? by FORTUNE(r) Magazine for four consecutive years and currently ranked at #12 in 2013. DDU integrates seamlessly with DreamWorks Animation?s other campuses through proprietary tools and technology including state-of-the-art video conferencing facilities and review rooms. The employees of DDU, led by world class leadership, share a passion to tell stories and make movies and bring your most beloved DreamWorks characters to life, with an unflinching commitment to delivering the highest level of quality that has become the hallmark of DreamWorks Animation. It is hence not surprising that DDU attracts a diverse collection of artists, technologists, production and corporate staff including a sizeable number of international talent from countries such as Australia, Belgium, France, Spain, Singapore, Thailand and USA. The artists at DDU are currently working on their first full-length feature film - ?Penguins of Madagascar?, after having successfully delivered highly rated TV specials such as Merry Madagascar, Scared Shrekless, Madly Madagascar, beside adding valuable contributions to full-feature animated films such as ?Puss In Boots?, ?Madagascar 3 - Europe?s Most Wanted? and ?Rise of the Guardians?. In addition to getting to work on the most prized entertainment properties, every day DreamWorkers enjoy free breakfast at the studio, fitness classes such yoga and pilates, art galleries and more. The training department at DDU provides a wide range of artistic and technical training to enhance the ongoing development of our employees. To celebrate our films and company milestones, DDU has premiere screenings of all of DreamWorks Animation?s movies to all employees and their families. At its core, DDU celebrates the unique personalities of our employees. We support a diverse group of employee interests at work including the DDU Photography group, DDU Badminton club, GreenWorks (with Eco friendly members), volunteer groups, film club and more. At the heart of DDU is the desire to tell great stories and inspire audiences. Our company culture encourages our employees to not only create but also innovate and, ultimately, have fun while at it! Follow these links to see and hear what our employees have to say about work and life at the DDU: DDU Sizzle reel (life at DDU): http://vimeo.com/32071503 DDU 2011 Studio reel: http://vimeo.com/20462459 DDU 2012 Studio reel: http://vimeo.com/50970882 How is python is used in the company: DreamWorks Animation's day to day technical production operations are executed using its complex scalable proprietary pipeline, which is almost all python based. In addition, almost all the proprietary and third party software tools provide a python extension language through pyrex, boost.python and pyQt. The NxG pipeline for the studio is a highly scalable distributed system with complex taskflow mgmt systems and analytics all built on python. Pipeline TD Job Description: A Technical Director (TD) provides pipeline support for production artists and department heads, and enables artist to work more self-sufficiently. A TD will design, develop, and implement new tools and processes for a particular show or department, as well as triage and debug technical issues. A TD is the first line of defense for their department for technical issues and is the liaisons with R&D and other technology departments. Responsibilities: ? Work closely with assigned production department to aid them in meeting their creative goals. ? Provide support when there are technical issues. ? Develop tools and enhance the pipeline to reduce complexity. ? Teach classes and write documentation to educate artists and establish best practices. ? Implement solutions for inefficiencies in the production pipeline. ? Anticipate problems and proactively resolve them. ? Aid in designing and implementing tools and workflows in line with studio goals and standards. ? Assist in the training and mentoring of Entry Level Technical Directors. Requirements: ? 3-5 years of feature level production experience preferable. ? B.S. or M.S. in Computer Science, Engineering or equivalent recommended. ? Strong fundamental Computer Graphics knowledge. (transform matrices, vector mathematics, shading models) ? Strong computer science and programming skills. (OOP, systems design, Python, C++, tcsh, Mel) ? Experience with the Unix/Linux environment. ? Excellent problem-solving skills. ? Competent at supporting third party applications (Maya, Massive, Houdini, Nuke) ? Ability to take direction and establish priorities, work independently or with a group, and perform with minimal supervision. ? Ability to proactively identify issues and resolve them. ? ?Customer first? mentality and willingness to provide direct support to individuals. ? Excellent verbal and written communication skills. To apply: Please email your applications to: careers.ddu at technicolor.com From sneha.venkatraman at technicolor.com Wed Sep 18 10:48:39 2013 From: sneha.venkatraman at technicolor.com (Venkatraman Sneha) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 14:18:39 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [JOB] DreamWorks Dedicated Unit Technicolor : R&D Pipeline Engineer Message-ID: Openings at DreamWorks Dedicated Unit Technicolor, India (Bangalore) About the company: DreamWorks Animation is a leading producer of high-quality entertainment including CG animated feature films, television series and specials, that have included franchises such as Shrek, Madagascar, Kung Fu Panda. In mid-2008, DreamWorks Animation partnered with Technicolor India to create DreamWorks Dedicated Unit (DDU), Technicolor India, the first studio for DreamWorks Animation outside of the US, with the goal of creating a fully functioning studio for DreamWorks Animation in India. "...We have transformed over the years from hand-drawn animation to computer-generated films to being a leader in 3D entertainment. Our strategy has remained the same: to produce great stories that are creatively driven and technologically state-of-the-art. In pursuit of this goal I'm proud to say that what defines DreamWorks Animation more than anything else is the dedication and the expertise of our people." - Jeffrey Katzenberg, CEO, DreamWorks Animation SKG The Studio - Life at DDU While DDU operates under the HR umbrella of Technicolor India, the employees are provided the same world class facilities and work culture that has propelled DreamWorks Animation among the "100 Best Companies to Work For" by FORTUNE(r) Magazine for four consecutive years and currently ranked at #12 in 2013. DDU integrates seamlessly with DreamWorks Animation's other campuses through proprietary tools and technology including state-of-the-art video conferencing facilities and review rooms. The employees of DDU, led by world class leadership, share a passion to tell stories and make movies and bring your most beloved DreamWorks characters to life, with an unflinching commitment to delivering the highest level of quality that has become the hallmark of DreamWorks Animation. It is hence not surprising that DDU attracts a diverse collection of artists, technologists, production and corporate staff including a sizeable number of international talent from countries such as Australia, Belgium, France, Spain, Singapore, Thailand and USA. The artists at DDU are currently working on their first full-length feature film - 'Penguins of Madagascar', after having successfully delivered highly rated TV specials such as Merry Madagascar, Scared Shrekless, Madly Madagascar, beside adding valuable contributions to full-feature animated films such as "Puss In Boots", "Madagascar 3 - Europe's Most Wanted" and "Rise of the Guardians". In addition to getting to work on the most prized entertainment properties, every day DreamWorkers enjoy free breakfast at the studio, fitness classes such yoga and pilates, art galleries and more. The training department at DDU provides a wide range of artistic and technical training to enhance the ongoing development of our employees. To celebrate our films and company milestones, DDU has premiere screenings of all of DreamWorks Animation's movies to all employees and their families. At its core, DDU celebrates the unique personalities of our employees. We support a diverse group of employee interests at work including the DDU Photography group, DDU Badminton club, GreenWorks (with Eco friendly members), volunteer groups, film club and more. At the heart of DDU is the desire to tell great stories and inspire audiences. Our company culture encourages our employees to not only create but also innovate and, ultimately, have fun while at it! Follow these links to see and hear what our employees have to say about work and life at the DDU: DDU Sizzle reel (life at DDU): http://vimeo.com/32071503 DDU 2011 Studio reel: http://vimeo.com/20462459 DDU 2012 Studio reel: http://vimeo.com/50970882 How is python is used in the company: DreamWorks Animation's day to day technical production operations are executed using its complex scalable proprietary pipeline, which is almost all python based. In addition, almost all the proprietary and third party software tools provide a python extension language through pyrex, boost.python and pyQt. The NxG pipeline for the studio is a highly scalable distributed system with complex taskflow mgmt systems and analytics all built on python. Pipeline Engineer Job Description: Description A Pipeline Engineer designs and implements production tools that manage and visualize the data used in the creation of animated feature films. Pipeline Engineers are responsible for integrating proprietary and third party tools into production. Working with both Technical Directors and R&D Software Engineers, a Pipeline Engineer is responsible for executing the global technical vision for the pipeline. Duties and Responsibilities * Provide support and development of tools and procedures to extend and enhance the pipeline. * Ensure software development follows studio policies and guidelines. * Work closely with other Pipeline Engineers, Technical Directors, and R&D Software Engineers to maintain and further the production pipeline. * Assist in training and mentoring of other Pipeline Engineers. * Continually seek out and explore new technologies and report on their applicability to a production environment. * Provide expertise and code reviews to production developers as needed. * Reports to the Pipeline Manager. Qualifications * Strong programming skills. Proficiency in C, C++, Python, Object Oriented Programming, Elastic Computing, Model/View/Controller framework * Experience with multiple GUI toolkits (Qt a plus) * Experience with back end persistent storage mechanisms such as SQL, XML, JSON a plus. * Experience with tool integration into existing or new pipelines. * Ability to establish priorities, work independently or within a group, and work with minimal supervision. * Exceptional communication skills in dealing with both technical and artistic groups. Education B.S. or M.S. in Computer Science, Engineering or equivalent. To apply: Please email your applications to: careers.ddu at technicolor.com From sneha.venkatraman at technicolor.com Wed Sep 18 10:59:47 2013 From: sneha.venkatraman at technicolor.com (Venkatraman Sneha) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 14:29:47 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [JOB] DreamWorks Dedicated Unit Technicolor : R&D Pipeline Engineer Message-ID: Openings at DreamWorks Dedicated Unit Technicolor, India (Bangalore) About the company: DreamWorks Animation is a leading producer of high-quality entertainment including CG animated feature films, television series and specials, that have included franchises such as Shrek, Madagascar, Kung Fu Panda. In mid-2008, DreamWorks Animation partnered with Technicolor India to create DreamWorks Dedicated Unit (DDU), Technicolor India, the first studio for DreamWorks Animation outside of the US, with the goal of creating a fully functioning studio for DreamWorks Animation in India. "...We have transformed over the years from hand-drawn animation to computer-generated films to being a leader in 3D entertainment. Our strategy has remained the same: to produce great stories that are creatively driven and technologically state-of-the-art. In pursuit of this goal I'm proud to say that what defines DreamWorks Animation more than anything else is the dedication and the expertise of our people." - Jeffrey Katzenberg, CEO, DreamWorks Animation SKG The Studio - Life at DDU While DDU operates under the HR umbrella of Technicolor India, the employees are provided the same world class facilities and work culture that has propelled DreamWorks Animation among the "100 Best Companies to Work For" by FORTUNE(r) Magazine for four consecutive years and currently ranked at #12 in 2013. DDU integrates seamlessly with DreamWorks Animation's other campuses through proprietary tools and technology including state-of-the-art video conferencing facilities and review rooms. The employees of DDU, led by world class leadership, share a passion to tell stories and make movies and bring your most beloved DreamWorks characters to life, with an unflinching commitment to delivering the highest level of quality that has become the hallmark of DreamWorks Animation. It is hence not surprising that DDU attracts a diverse collection of artists, technologists, production and corporate staff including a sizeable number of international talent from countries such as Australia, Belgium, France, Spain, Singapore, Thailand and USA. The artists at DDU are currently working on their first full-length feature film - 'Penguins of Madagascar', after having successfully delivered highly rated TV specials such as Merry Madagascar, Scared Shrekless, Madly Madagascar, beside adding valuable contributions to full-feature animated films such as "Puss In Boots", "Madagascar 3 - Europe's Most Wanted" and "Rise of the Guardians". In addition to getting to work on the most prized entertainment properties, every day DreamWorkers enjoy free breakfast at the studio, fitness classes such yoga and pilates, art galleries and more. The training department at DDU provides a wide range of artistic and technical training to enhance the ongoing development of our employees. To celebrate our films and company milestones, DDU has premiere screenings of all of DreamWorks Animation's movies to all employees and their families. At its core, DDU celebrates the unique personalities of our employees. We support a diverse group of employee interests at work including the DDU Photography group, DDU Badminton club, GreenWorks (with Eco friendly members), volunteer groups, film club and more. At the heart of DDU is the desire to tell great stories and inspire audiences. Our company culture encourages our employees to not only create but also innovate and, ultimately, have fun while at it! Follow these links to see and hear what our employees have to say about work and life at the DDU: DDU Sizzle reel (life at DDU): http://vimeo.com/32071503 DDU 2011 Studio reel: http://vimeo.com/20462459 DDU 2012 Studio reel: http://vimeo.com/50970882 How is python is used in the company: DreamWorks Animation's day to day technical production operations are executed using its complex scalable proprietary pipeline, which is almost all python based. In addition, almost all the proprietary and third party software tools provide a python extension language through pyrex, boost.python and pyQt. The NxG pipeline for the studio is a highly scalable distributed system with complex taskflow mgmt systems and analytics all built on python. Pipeline Engineer Job Description: Description A Pipeline Engineer designs and implements production tools that manage and visualize the data used in the creation of animated feature films. Pipeline Engineers are responsible for integrating proprietary and third party tools into production. Working with both Technical Directors and R&D Software Engineers, a Pipeline Engineer is responsible for executing the global technical vision for the pipeline. Duties and Responsibilities * Provide support and development of tools and procedures to extend and enhance the pipeline. * Ensure software development follows studio policies and guidelines. * Work closely with other Pipeline Engineers, Technical Directors, and R&D Software Engineers to maintain and further the production pipeline. * Assist in training and mentoring of other Pipeline Engineers. * Continually seek out and explore new technologies and report on their applicability to a production environment. * Provide expertise and code reviews to production developers as needed. * Reports to the Pipeline Manager. Qualifications * Strong programming skills. Proficiency in C, C++, Python, Object Oriented Programming, Elastic Computing, Model/View/Controller framework * Experience with multiple GUI toolkits (Qt a plus) * Experience with back end persistent storage mechanisms such as SQL, XML, JSON a plus. * Experience with tool integration into existing or new pipelines. * Ability to establish priorities, work independently or within a group, and work with minimal supervision. * Exceptional communication skills in dealing with both technical and artistic groups. Education B.S. or M.S. in Computer Science, Engineering or equivalent. To apply: Please email your applications to: careers.ddu at technicolor.com From shoanm at gmail.com Wed Sep 18 06:48:10 2013 From: shoanm at gmail.com (Shoan Motwani) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 10:18:10 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python related podcasts Message-ID: Hi, Are there any python and related technology (like django) podcasts that you recommend? I wasn't able to find any on google. Thanks in advance. Peace, Shoan. -- Shoan Motwani @shoanm w. shoan.net From mak.gnu at gmail.com Wed Sep 18 15:38:37 2013 From: mak.gnu at gmail.com (Mukesh Yadav) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 19:08:37 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Online python course Message-ID: Hi, Thought you guys might like it. An Introduction to Interactive Programming in Python from www.coursera.org https://www.coursera.org/course/interactivepython -- Regards Mukesh Yadav From jeffjosejeff at gmail.com Wed Sep 18 15:53:53 2013 From: jeffjosejeff at gmail.com (Jeffrey Jose) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 19:23:53 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [JOB] DreamWorks Dedicated Unit, Technicolor India: Pipeline Technical Director (TD) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I work at the DreamWorks Dedicated Unit, and I'm happy to field questions if you have any. Cheers! -jeff Lead Technical Director | http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4162617/ On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Venkatraman Sneha < sneha.venkatraman at technicolor.com> wrote: > Openings at DreamWorks Dedicated Unit Technicolor, India (Bangalore) > > About the company: > > DreamWorks Animation is a leading producer of high-quality entertainment > including CG animated feature films, television series and specials, that > have included franchises such as Shrek, Madagascar, Kung Fu Panda. In > mid-2008, DreamWorks Animation partnered with Technicolor India to create > DreamWorks Dedicated Unit (DDU), Technicolor India, the first studio for > DreamWorks Animation outside of the US, with the goal of creating a fully > functioning studio for DreamWorks Animation in India. > > ?...We have transformed over the years from hand-drawn animation to > computer-generated films to being a leader in 3D entertainment. Our > strategy has remained the same: to produce great stories that are > creatively driven and technologically state-of-the-art. In pursuit of this > goal I?m proud to say that what defines DreamWorks Animation more than > anything else is the dedication and the expertise of our people.? > > - Jeffrey Katzenberg, CEO, DreamWorks Animation SKG > > > The Studio - Life at DDU > > While DDU operates under the HR umbrella of Technicolor India, the > employees are provided the same world class facilities and work culture > that has propelled DreamWorks Animation among the ?100 Best Companies to > Work For? by FORTUNE(r) Magazine for four consecutive years and currently > ranked at #12 in 2013. DDU integrates seamlessly with DreamWorks > Animation?s other campuses through proprietary tools and technology > including state-of-the-art video conferencing facilities and review rooms. > > The employees of DDU, led by world class leadership, share a passion to > tell stories and make movies and bring your most beloved DreamWorks > characters to life, with an unflinching commitment to delivering the > highest level of quality that has become the hallmark of DreamWorks > Animation. It is hence not surprising that DDU attracts a diverse > collection of artists, technologists, production and corporate staff > including a sizeable number of international talent from countries such as > Australia, Belgium, France, Spain, Singapore, Thailand and USA. > > The artists at DDU are currently working on their first full-length > feature film - ?Penguins of Madagascar?, after having successfully > delivered highly rated TV specials such as Merry Madagascar, Scared > Shrekless, Madly Madagascar, beside adding valuable contributions to > full-feature animated films such as ?Puss In Boots?, ?Madagascar 3 - > Europe?s Most Wanted? and ?Rise of the Guardians?. > > In addition to getting to work on the most prized entertainment > properties, every day DreamWorkers enjoy free breakfast at the studio, > fitness classes such yoga and pilates, art galleries and more. The training > department at DDU provides a wide range of artistic and technical training > to enhance the ongoing development of our employees. To celebrate our films > and company milestones, DDU has premiere screenings of all of DreamWorks > Animation?s movies to all employees and their families. At its core, DDU > celebrates the unique personalities of our employees. We support a diverse > group of employee interests at work including the DDU Photography group, > DDU Badminton club, GreenWorks (with Eco friendly members), volunteer > groups, film club and more. > > At the heart of DDU is the desire to tell great stories and inspire > audiences. Our company culture encourages our employees to not only create > but also innovate and, ultimately, have fun while at it! > > Follow these links to see and hear what our employees have to say about > work and life at the DDU: > > DDU Sizzle reel (life at DDU): http://vimeo.com/32071503 > > DDU 2011 Studio reel: http://vimeo.com/20462459 > > DDU 2012 Studio reel: http://vimeo.com/50970882 > > > > How is python is used in the company: > > DreamWorks Animation's day to day technical production operations are > executed using its complex scalable proprietary pipeline, which is almost > all python based. In addition, almost all the proprietary and third party > software tools provide a python extension language through pyrex, > boost.python and pyQt. The NxG pipeline for the studio is a highly scalable > distributed system with complex taskflow mgmt systems and analytics all > built on python. > > > > Pipeline TD Job Description: > > A Technical Director (TD) provides pipeline support for production artists > and department heads, and enables artist to work more self-sufficiently. A > TD will design, develop, and implement new tools and processes for a > particular show or department, as well as triage and debug technical > issues. A TD is the first line of defense for their department for > technical issues and is the liaisons with R&D and other technology > departments. > > > > > Responsibilities: > > > ? Work closely with assigned production department to aid them in > meeting their creative goals. > > ? Provide support when there are technical issues. > > ? Develop tools and enhance the pipeline to reduce complexity. > > ? Teach classes and write documentation to educate artists and > establish best practices. > > ? Implement solutions for inefficiencies in the production pipeline. > > ? Anticipate problems and proactively resolve them. > > ? Aid in designing and implementing tools and workflows in line with > studio goals and standards. > > ? Assist in the training and mentoring of Entry Level Technical > Directors. > > > > Requirements: > > ? 3-5 years of feature level production experience preferable. > > ? B.S. or M.S. in Computer Science, Engineering or equivalent > recommended. > > ? Strong fundamental Computer Graphics knowledge. (transform matrices, > vector mathematics, shading models) > > ? Strong computer science and programming skills. (OOP, systems > design, Python, C++, tcsh, Mel) > > ? Experience with the Unix/Linux environment. > > ? Excellent problem-solving skills. > > ? Competent at supporting third party applications (Maya, Massive, > Houdini, Nuke) > > ? Ability to take direction and establish priorities, work > independently or with a group, and perform with minimal supervision. > > ? Ability to proactively identify issues and resolve them. > > ? ?Customer first? mentality and willingness to provide direct support > to individuals. > > ? Excellent verbal and written communication skills. > > > > To apply: > > Please email your applications to: careers.ddu at technicolor.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From vjagannath09 at gmail.com Fri Sep 20 03:17:54 2013 From: vjagannath09 at gmail.com (Vaikuntham Jagannath) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 09:17:54 +0800 Subject: [BangPypers] Functional testing wih headless browser framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You could use PhantomJS +Selenium with python. I tried a very basic spike.You could find it here. http://simply-jags.blogspot.in/2013/06/headless-testing-with-selenium.html For BDD with python try lettuce... http://lettuce.it/ Hope this helps. :) On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 2:32 PM, s|s wrote: > +1 Selenium with xvfb is your best bet. > > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Gora Mohanty wrote: > > > On 17 September 2013 02:24, Amit Sethi > wrote: > > > Hi , > > > > > > I am looking to add some functional testing to my application. I have > > seen > > > a couple of tools via google search but the reason I am a little > > > circumspect is that last time, I did something similar using selenium > and > > > it seemed lack some requirements of mine.(It was not exacty headless) > > [...] > > > > If you are already familiar with Selenium, that is what I would > > go with. You can run Selenium headless with X11 and Xvfb > > (the old school method that works just fine), or with PhantomJS > > and Webkit. > > > > Regards, > > Gora > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > -- > Supreet Sethi > Ph UK: +447859172473 > Ph IN: +919811143517 > Ph Skype: d_j_i_n_n > Profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/supreet.sethi > Twt: http://twitter.com/djinn > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From pankaj at gaurishiv.org Thu Sep 19 17:56:43 2013 From: pankaj at gaurishiv.org (Pankaj Gupta) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 21:26:43 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] python interpreter Message-ID: Hi All, Is there any difference between python IDLE and pythonwin interpreter. because for my application when I use pythonwin to run the application it starts in very less time where as when i start the same application using Python IDLE interpreter, it takes almost three time than pythonwin to launch the application. Even few of the scripts won't work proper while running using Python IDLE interpreter. Can any one explain the reason? Please let me know in case you need some more information on the same. Thanks in advance for the support -- Thanks with Regards: Pankaj Kumar Gupta Bangalore,Karnatka cell: *+91-9035486588* From venum at thoughtworks.com Fri Sep 20 08:23:43 2013 From: venum at thoughtworks.com (Venu Murthy) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 11:53:43 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] BangPypers Digest, Vol 73, Issue 62 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I had taken the Interactive Python last year and it was the most amazing online course, I've enjoyed every bit of it, do singup, Warren and Joe do an amazing job and the wonderful part of this is that they make this course as enjoyable as a game! https://www.coursera.org/course/interactivepython On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 3:30 PM, wrote: > Send BangPypers mailing list submissions to > bangpypers at python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > bangpypers-request at python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > bangpypers-owner at python.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of BangPypers digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Online python course (Mukesh Yadav) > 2. Re: [JOB] DreamWorks Dedicated Unit, Technicolor India: > Pipeline Technical Director (TD) (Jeffrey Jose) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 19:08:37 +0530 > From: Mukesh Yadav > To: bangpypers at python.org > Subject: [BangPypers] Online python course > Message-ID: > ksvOYWrRTetDSOXv7wqOeKTLvA at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi, > Thought you guys might like it. An Introduction to Interactive > Programming in Python from www.coursera.org > > https://www.coursera.org/course/interactivepython > > -- > Regards > Mukesh Yadav > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 19:23:53 +0530 > From: Jeffrey Jose > To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India > Subject: Re: [BangPypers] [JOB] DreamWorks Dedicated Unit, Technicolor > India: Pipeline Technical Director (TD) > Message-ID: > nW4FTuJXx9_Xf_Q at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > I work at the DreamWorks Dedicated Unit, and I'm happy to field questions > if you have any. > > Cheers! > -jeff > Lead Technical Director | http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4162617/ > > > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Venkatraman Sneha < > sneha.venkatraman at technicolor.com> wrote: > > > Openings at DreamWorks Dedicated Unit Technicolor, India (Bangalore) > > > > About the company: > > > > DreamWorks Animation is a leading producer of high-quality entertainment > > including CG animated feature films, television series and specials, that > > have included franchises such as Shrek, Madagascar, Kung Fu Panda. In > > mid-2008, DreamWorks Animation partnered with Technicolor India to create > > DreamWorks Dedicated Unit (DDU), Technicolor India, the first studio for > > DreamWorks Animation outside of the US, with the goal of creating a fully > > functioning studio for DreamWorks Animation in India. > > > > ?...We have transformed over the years from hand-drawn animation to > > computer-generated films to being a leader in 3D entertainment. Our > > strategy has remained the same: to produce great stories that are > > creatively driven and technologically state-of-the-art. In pursuit of > this > > goal I?m proud to say that what defines DreamWorks Animation more than > > anything else is the dedication and the expertise of our people.? > > > > - Jeffrey Katzenberg, CEO, DreamWorks Animation SKG > > > > > > The Studio - Life at DDU > > > > While DDU operates under the HR umbrella of Technicolor India, the > > employees are provided the same world class facilities and work culture > > that has propelled DreamWorks Animation among the ?100 Best Companies to > > Work For? by FORTUNE(r) Magazine for four consecutive years and currently > > ranked at #12 in 2013. DDU integrates seamlessly with DreamWorks > > Animation?s other campuses through proprietary tools and technology > > including state-of-the-art video conferencing facilities and review > rooms. > > > > The employees of DDU, led by world class leadership, share a passion to > > tell stories and make movies and bring your most beloved DreamWorks > > characters to life, with an unflinching commitment to delivering the > > highest level of quality that has become the hallmark of DreamWorks > > Animation. It is hence not surprising that DDU attracts a diverse > > collection of artists, technologists, production and corporate staff > > including a sizeable number of international talent from countries such > as > > Australia, Belgium, France, Spain, Singapore, Thailand and USA. > > > > The artists at DDU are currently working on their first full-length > > feature film - ?Penguins of Madagascar?, after having successfully > > delivered highly rated TV specials such as Merry Madagascar, Scared > > Shrekless, Madly Madagascar, beside adding valuable contributions to > > full-feature animated films such as ?Puss In Boots?, ?Madagascar 3 - > > Europe?s Most Wanted? and ?Rise of the Guardians?. > > > > In addition to getting to work on the most prized entertainment > > properties, every day DreamWorkers enjoy free breakfast at the studio, > > fitness classes such yoga and pilates, art galleries and more. The > training > > department at DDU provides a wide range of artistic and technical > training > > to enhance the ongoing development of our employees. To celebrate our > films > > and company milestones, DDU has premiere screenings of all of DreamWorks > > Animation?s movies to all employees and their families. At its core, DDU > > celebrates the unique personalities of our employees. We support a > diverse > > group of employee interests at work including the DDU Photography group, > > DDU Badminton club, GreenWorks (with Eco friendly members), volunteer > > groups, film club and more. > > > > At the heart of DDU is the desire to tell great stories and inspire > > audiences. Our company culture encourages our employees to not only > create > > but also innovate and, ultimately, have fun while at it! > > > > Follow these links to see and hear what our employees have to say about > > work and life at the DDU: > > > > DDU Sizzle reel (life at DDU): http://vimeo.com/32071503 > > > > DDU 2011 Studio reel: http://vimeo.com/20462459 > > > > DDU 2012 Studio reel: http://vimeo.com/50970882 > > > > > > > > How is python is used in the company: > > > > DreamWorks Animation's day to day technical production operations are > > executed using its complex scalable proprietary pipeline, which is almost > > all python based. In addition, almost all the proprietary and third party > > software tools provide a python extension language through pyrex, > > boost.python and pyQt. The NxG pipeline for the studio is a highly > scalable > > distributed system with complex taskflow mgmt systems and analytics all > > built on python. > > > > > > > > Pipeline TD Job Description: > > > > A Technical Director (TD) provides pipeline support for production > artists > > and department heads, and enables artist to work more self-sufficiently. > A > > TD will design, develop, and implement new tools and processes for a > > particular show or department, as well as triage and debug technical > > issues. A TD is the first line of defense for their department for > > technical issues and is the liaisons with R&D and other technology > > departments. > > > > > > > > > > Responsibilities: > > > > > > ? Work closely with assigned production department to aid them in > > meeting their creative goals. > > > > ? Provide support when there are technical issues. > > > > ? Develop tools and enhance the pipeline to reduce complexity. > > > > ? Teach classes and write documentation to educate artists and > > establish best practices. > > > > ? Implement solutions for inefficiencies in the production pipeline. > > > > ? Anticipate problems and proactively resolve them. > > > > ? Aid in designing and implementing tools and workflows in line with > > studio goals and standards. > > > > ? Assist in the training and mentoring of Entry Level Technical > > Directors. > > > > > > > > Requirements: > > > > ? 3-5 years of feature level production experience preferable. > > > > ? B.S. or M.S. in Computer Science, Engineering or equivalent > > recommended. > > > > ? Strong fundamental Computer Graphics knowledge. (transform > matrices, > > vector mathematics, shading models) > > > > ? Strong computer science and programming skills. (OOP, systems > > design, Python, C++, tcsh, Mel) > > > > ? Experience with the Unix/Linux environment. > > > > ? Excellent problem-solving skills. > > > > ? Competent at supporting third party applications (Maya, Massive, > > Houdini, Nuke) > > > > ? Ability to take direction and establish priorities, work > > independently or with a group, and perform with minimal supervision. > > > > ? Ability to proactively identify issues and resolve them. > > > > ? ?Customer first? mentality and willingness to provide direct > support > > to individuals. > > > > ? Excellent verbal and written communication skills. > > > > > > > > To apply: > > > > Please email your applications to: careers.ddu at technicolor.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > ------------------------------ > > End of BangPypers Digest, Vol 73, Issue 62 > ****************************************** > From babmis at outlook.com Fri Sep 20 14:36:17 2013 From: babmis at outlook.com (babmis) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 18:06:17 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] decorator help Message-ID: I want to print entry and exit message for functions , i have bunch of such function . How can i do it in decorator. From 91prashantgaur at gmail.com Fri Sep 20 14:48:34 2013 From: 91prashantgaur at gmail.com (Prashant Gaur) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 18:18:34 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] decorator help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Babmis , Please check below code. Let me know if i am wrong. def track(urfunc): def loggingfun(): print "enter " , urfunc.__name__ outcome = urfunc() print "exit ", urfunc.__name__ return outcome loggingfun.__name__ = urfunc .__name__ loggingfun.__doc__ = urfunc .__doc__ return loggingfun From lgp171188 at gmail.com Fri Sep 20 14:52:42 2013 From: lgp171188 at gmail.com (Guruprasad) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 18:22:42 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] decorator help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi babmis, On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Prashant Gaur <91prashantgaur at gmail.com> wrote: > Hello Babmis , > > Please check below code. > Let me know if i am wrong. > > > def track(urfunc): > def loggingfun(): > print "enter " , urfunc.__name__ > outcome = urfunc() > print "exit ", urfunc.__name__ > > return outcome > loggingfun.__name__ = urfunc .__name__ > loggingfun.__doc__ = urfunc .__doc__ > return loggingfun Before you go ahead and try this code, I would recommend that you read a bit about decorators in Python. The one that I usually refer to is this StackOverflow answer - http://stackoverflow.com/a/1594484. Thanks & Regards, Guruprasad From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Fri Sep 20 16:12:44 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 19:42:44 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] decorator help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 6:06 PM, babmis wrote: > I want to print entry and exit message for functions , i have bunch of such > function . How can i do it in decorator. >>> from functools import wraps >>> >>> def trace(f): ... @wraps(f) ... def wrap(*args, **kwargs): ... print("Entering {} with {} {}".format(f.__name__,args,kwargs)) ... ret = f(*args,**kwargs) ... print("Leaving {} with {}".format(f.__name__, ret)) ... return ret ... return wrap ... >>> @trace ... def foo(arg1,arg2,arg3="bar",arg4="buz") : ... print("Into foo") ... return ("Zoo", False) ... >>> >>> foo("hello", "world", arg4="Boo!") Entering foo with ('hello', 'world') {'arg4': 'Boo!'} Into foo Leaving foo with ('Zoo', False) ('Zoo', False) > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From baiju.m.mail at gmail.com Sat Sep 21 08:31:56 2013 From: baiju.m.mail at gmail.com (Baiju M) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2013 12:01:56 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] September Bangpypers meetup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: BTW, the venue for today's meeting has been finalized and it was updated in the meetup site: http://www.meetup.com/BangPypers/events/125800202/ Here is the address: ZeOmega Infotech Pvt. Ltd. "Subhashri Pride", 3rd Floor, South End Road, Basavanagudi, Bangalore-560-004 (Just look for "Axis Bank", it's the same building) Those who are coming by bus from Majestic/K.R Market look for 15 or 210 buses with extension. You can get down at "Tata Silk Farm" bus stop. Our office is just 2 minutes walk-able from the bus stop. My mobile number: 9945973441 On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 12:20 PM, kracekumar ramaraju wrote: > Hi All > > We have Bangpypers meetup on september from 3.00 PM to 6.00PM - > http://www.meetup.com/BangPypers/events/125800202/. Unfortunately myself > and Anand are unavailable. > > We don't venue and co-ordinator. We have 96 RSVPS but can expect 20 - 40 > people depending on the location. We are looking for organizer and venue. > Anyone up for it? > > -- > * > Thanks & Regards > > "Talk is cheap, show me the code" -- Linus Torvalds > kracekumar > www.kracekumar.com > * > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From babmis at outlook.com Sun Sep 22 17:32:38 2013 From: babmis at outlook.com (babmis) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 21:02:38 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] BangPypers Digest, Vol 73, Issue 64 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the reply. On 9/21/2013 3:30 PM, bangpypers-request at python.org wrote: > Send BangPypers mailing list submissions to > bangpypers at python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > bangpypers-request at python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > bangpypers-owner at python.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of BangPypers digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. decorator help (babmis) > 2. Re: decorator help (Prashant Gaur) > 3. Re: decorator help (Guruprasad) > 4. Re: decorator help (Dhananjay Nene) > 5. Re: September Bangpypers meetup (Baiju M) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 18:06:17 +0530 > From: babmis > To: bangpypers at python.org > Subject: [BangPypers] decorator help > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed > > I want to print entry and exit message for functions , i have bunch of > such function . How can i do it in decorator. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 18:18:34 +0530 > From: Prashant Gaur <91prashantgaur at gmail.com> > To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India > Subject: Re: [BangPypers] decorator help > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hello Babmis , > > Please check below code. > Let me know if i am wrong. > > > def track(urfunc): > def loggingfun(): > print "enter " , urfunc.__name__ > outcome = urfunc() > print "exit ", urfunc.__name__ > > return outcome > loggingfun.__name__ = urfunc .__name__ > loggingfun.__doc__ = urfunc .__doc__ > return loggingfun > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 18:22:42 +0530 > From: Guruprasad > To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India > Subject: Re: [BangPypers] decorator help > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi babmis, > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Prashant Gaur <91prashantgaur at gmail.com> wrote: >> Hello Babmis , >> >> Please check below code. >> Let me know if i am wrong. >> >> >> def track(urfunc): >> def loggingfun(): >> print "enter " , urfunc.__name__ >> outcome = urfunc() >> print "exit ", urfunc.__name__ >> >> return outcome >> loggingfun.__name__ = urfunc .__name__ >> loggingfun.__doc__ = urfunc .__doc__ >> return loggingfun > Before you go ahead and try this code, I would recommend that you read > a bit about decorators in Python. The one that I usually refer to is > this StackOverflow answer - http://stackoverflow.com/a/1594484. > > Thanks & Regards, > Guruprasad > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 19:42:44 +0530 > From: Dhananjay Nene > To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India > Subject: Re: [BangPypers] decorator help > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 6:06 PM, babmis wrote: >> I want to print entry and exit message for functions , i have bunch of such >> function . How can i do it in decorator. >>>> from functools import wraps >>>> >>>> def trace(f): > ... @wraps(f) > ... def wrap(*args, **kwargs): > ... print("Entering {} with {} {}".format(f.__name__,args,kwargs)) > ... ret = f(*args,**kwargs) > ... print("Leaving {} with {}".format(f.__name__, ret)) > ... return ret > ... return wrap > ... >>>> @trace > ... def foo(arg1,arg2,arg3="bar",arg4="buz") : > ... print("Into foo") > ... return ("Zoo", False) > ... >>>> foo("hello", "world", arg4="Boo!") > Entering foo with ('hello', 'world') {'arg4': 'Boo!'} > Into foo > Leaving foo with ('Zoo', False) > ('Zoo', False) > > >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2013 12:01:56 +0530 > From: Baiju M > To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India > Subject: Re: [BangPypers] September Bangpypers meetup > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > BTW, the venue for today's meeting has been finalized and it was > updated in the meetup site: > http://www.meetup.com/BangPypers/events/125800202/ > > Here is the address: > > ZeOmega Infotech Pvt. Ltd. > "Subhashri Pride", 3rd Floor, South End Road, > Basavanagudi, Bangalore-560-004 > (Just look for "Axis Bank", it's the same building) > > Those who are coming by bus from Majestic/K.R Market look for 15 or > 210 buses with extension. > You can get down at "Tata Silk Farm" bus stop. Our office is just 2 > minutes walk-able from the > bus stop. > > My mobile number: 9945973441 > > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 12:20 PM, kracekumar ramaraju > wrote: >> Hi All >> >> We have Bangpypers meetup on september from 3.00 PM to 6.00PM - >> http://www.meetup.com/BangPypers/events/125800202/. Unfortunately myself >> and Anand are unavailable. >> >> We don't venue and co-ordinator. We have 96 RSVPS but can expect 20 - 40 >> people depending on the location. We are looking for organizer and venue. >> Anyone up for it? >> >> -- >> * >> Thanks & Regards >> >> "Talk is cheap, show me the code" -- Linus Torvalds >> kracekumar >> www.kracekumar.com >> * >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > ------------------------------ > > End of BangPypers Digest, Vol 73, Issue 64 > ****************************************** > > From nitin.nitp at gmail.com Sun Sep 22 19:35:24 2013 From: nitin.nitp at gmail.com (Nitin Kumar) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 23:05:24 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python workshop at svce, Bangalore held on 21st Sept Message-ID: Hi All, We visited Sri Venkateshwara College of Engineering - Bangalore this saterday (21st Sept). There were around 130 participants. Please find some snaps of the same. https://picasaweb.google.com/111252001459627038611/PythonWorkshop?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCPXk2N_u6drFnwE&feat=directlink Nitin K From a.koppad at gmail.com Mon Sep 23 07:54:04 2013 From: a.koppad at gmail.com (Annapoornima Koppad) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 11:24:04 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyladies Bangalore in Times of India Message-ID: Dear All, Pyladies Bangalore was recently featured in Times of India dated, 22nd sept and later on 23 sept as well. [1]. I am not able to find the link for the 23rd edition. I thank Anand Chitipothu for making Pycon India 2013 women inclusive. Since he has already made a comment that there was enough participation from women, there are a few facts that I want get them straight. Dear Mr. Anand Chitipothu, can you please provide the exact number of women participants in Pycon India 2013? How many women were key note speakers? I would like a list of their email ids and names if they were women. I need them because I want to increase the Pyladies visibility and also encourage ladies in other cities to start Pyladies chapter in their respective towns and cities. Also, Mr. Anand, can you please provide me an introduction to Shilpa Patankar the news reporter so that I can give her the status of Pyladies Bangalore, overview of goals, etc. [1]. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/personal-tech/computing/Women-programmers-learn-to-schmooze/articleshow/22877116.cms I wholeheartedly thank Anand Chitipothu ( and the other volunteers) for making Pycon India 2013 a women inclusive event. Thanks and regards, Annapoornima From venkat83 at gmail.com Mon Sep 23 08:14:54 2013 From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 11:44:54 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyladies Bangalore in Times of India In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 11:24 AM, Annapoornima Koppad wrote: > [1]. > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/personal-tech/computing/Women-programmers-learn-to-schmooze/articleshow/22877116.cms Does anyone know Chinmayi SK from RHOK. It looks like she is trying to do something similar to what I tried 4-5 years back with mapatree.org(the domain no longer is owned by me; but the app can be accessed here http://mapatree.appspot.com/ ). I gave up on this side project of mine after running it with for a year. Can pass on some of what I learnt to her(for eg. to use OSM than GMaps etc) and also the data dump from mapatree. > I wholeheartedly thank Anand Chitipothu ( and the other volunteers) for > making Pycon India 2013 a women inclusive event. > The term 'women inclusive event' just sounds weird to me. -Venkat https://twitter.com/venkasub From svaksha at gmail.com Mon Sep 23 09:09:50 2013 From: svaksha at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?c3Zha3NoYSDgpaUg4KS44KWN4KS14KSV4KWN4KS3?=) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 07:09:50 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyladies Bangalore in Times of India In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 5:54 AM, Annapoornima Koppad wrote: > Dear All, > > Pyladies Bangalore was recently featured in Times of India dated, 22nd sept > and later on 23 sept as well. [1]. I am not able to find the link for the > 23rd edition. Is it this? http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/careers/job-trends/Lean-in-circles-for-women-coders/articleshow/22915047.cms Seems like a rehash of the earlier article with a new title. - svaksha ? ?????? From a.koppad at gmail.com Mon Sep 23 09:18:04 2013 From: a.koppad at gmail.com (Annapoornima Koppad) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 12:48:04 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyladies Bangalore in Times of India In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Svaksha, Thanks for the link. Yes, thats the one that I was looking for. Thanks once again. All, please see Anand stating that there were 500 people. I am not sure if those 500 number was women, or the overall participation. @Venkatraman, One word can evoke different emotions in different people. I will be interested in knowing your views. Can you please be more clear on why you find it "weird"? Thanks and regards, Annapoornima On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 12:39 PM, svaksha ? ?????? wrote: > On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 5:54 AM, Annapoornima Koppad > wrote: > > Dear All, > > > > Pyladies Bangalore was recently featured in Times of India dated, 22nd > sept > > and later on 23 sept as well. [1]. I am not able to find the link for the > > 23rd edition. > > Is it this? > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/careers/job-trends/Lean-in-circles-for-women-coders/articleshow/22915047.cms > Seems like a rehash of the earlier article with a new title. > - svaksha ? ?????? > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Mon Sep 23 09:22:58 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 12:52:58 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyladies Bangalore in Times of India In-Reply-To: (Annapoornima Koppad's message of "Mon, 23 Sep 2013 11:24:04 +0530") References: Message-ID: <87txhcvw6l.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Annapoornima Koppad writes: [...] > [1]. > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/personal-tech/computing/Women-programmers-learn-to-schmooze/articleshow/22877116.cms [...] This article, at least some of the Python parts of it, are not accurate. Bangpypers didn't host PyCon India. The PSSI did in Bangalore and many of the volunteers were out of station. Also, that quote doesn't sound authentic but like a generic feel good statement. -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From anandology at gmail.com Mon Sep 23 09:32:45 2013 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 13:02:45 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyladies Bangalore in Times of India In-Reply-To: <87txhcvw6l.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87txhcvw6l.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Annapoornima Koppad writes: > > > [...] > > > [1]. > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/personal-tech/computing/Women-programmers-learn-to-schmooze/articleshow/22877116.cms > > [...] > > This article, at least some of the Python parts of it, are not > accurate. Bangpypers didn't host PyCon India. The PSSI did in Bangalore > and many of the volunteers were out of station. Also, that quote doesn't > sound authentic but like a generic feel good statement. > "The response from women coders was overwhelming," said Anand Chitipothu All I said was "it looked like there were more women participants this year compared previous years". Surprised to see what came out. Anand From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Mon Sep 23 09:34:27 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 13:04:27 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyladies Bangalore in Times of India In-Reply-To: (Anand Chitipothu's message of "Mon, 23 Sep 2013 13:02:45 +0530") References: <87txhcvw6l.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <87ioxsvvng.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Anand Chitipothu writes: [...] > "The response from women coders was overwhelming," said Anand > Chitipothu > > All I said was "it looked like there were more women participants this > year compared previous years". Surprised to see what came out. I'm annoyed but not surprised. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From venkat83 at gmail.com Mon Sep 23 09:39:08 2013 From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 13:09:08 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyladies Bangalore in Times of India In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Annapoornima Koppad wrote: > > @Venkatraman, > > One word can evoke different emotions in different people. Agreed. > I will be > interested in knowing your views. Can you please be more clear on why you > find it "weird"? > Bluntly put, it sounds very condescending and portrays a picture that Pycon is a male dominated society where women were not allowed in earlier. A better choice of words would have been nice(r). -V From anandology at gmail.com Mon Sep 23 09:44:03 2013 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 13:14:03 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyladies Bangalore in Times of India In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I thank Anand Chitipothu for making Pycon India 2013 women inclusive. Since > he has already made a comment that there was enough participation from > women, there are a few facts that I want get them straight. > Not sure what you mean by "women inclusive" here. PyCon India was never women exclusive, we always had women participants and speakers. Anand From a.koppad at gmail.com Mon Sep 23 09:51:43 2013 From: a.koppad at gmail.com (Annapoornima Koppad) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 13:21:43 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyladies Bangalore in Times of India In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: @ Anand, please talk in numbers and not in words. How many women members were present, etc? @Venkat, I have been nice, cordial, and don't need a better choice of words. I dont want argue on this anymore. I would like to continue the original thread. @Noufal, I am on phone with Times of India office. Yes, I want actual women participating and not just feel good about it. Yes, it is very annoying when the reports are diluted/distorted. On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Anand Chitipothu wrote: > > I thank Anand Chitipothu for making Pycon India 2013 women inclusive. > Since > > he has already made a comment that there was enough participation from > > women, there are a few facts that I want get them straight. > > > > Not sure what you mean by "women inclusive" here. PyCon India was never > women exclusive, we always had women participants and speakers. > > Anand > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From tsk.kamath at gmail.com Mon Sep 23 11:15:39 2013 From: tsk.kamath at gmail.com (T S KAMATH) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 14:45:39 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyladies Bangalore in Times of India In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: there it start.. flaming each other ... Guys & Girls, Push back relax and Enjoy the show.. "GM-II production on bangpypers" Regards Srikanth ---- On 23-Sep-2013, at 1:21 PM, Annapoornima Koppad wrote: @ Anand, please talk in numbers and not in words. How many women members were present, etc? @Venkat, I have been nice, cordial, and don't need a better choice of words. I dont want argue on this anymore. I would like to continue the original thread. @Noufal, I am on phone with Times of India office. Yes, I want actual women participating and not just feel good about it. Yes, it is very annoying when the reports are diluted/distorted. On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Anand Chitipothu wrote: >> I thank Anand Chitipothu for making Pycon India 2013 women inclusive. > Since >> he has already made a comment that there was enough participation from >> women, there are a few facts that I want get them straight. >> > > Not sure what you mean by "women inclusive" here. PyCon India was never > women exclusive, we always had women participants and speakers. > > Anand > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From mandarvaze at gmail.com Mon Sep 23 11:36:48 2013 From: mandarvaze at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWFuZGFyIFZhemUgLyDgpK7gpILgpKbgpL7gpLAg4KS14KSd4KWH?=) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 15:06:48 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] RHOK, maptree and like .. Message-ID: (Changing the subject so as not to get "caught" in cross fire ..) Does anyone know Chinmayi SK from RHOK. In addition I would like more information about the app itself ? The article says "Android app" .. "encourages users to take picture of tree" etc. Couple years ago - I was part of team that tried to build a similar app (since then I have moved on) I would be interested to try the app. If open source, like to view (and contribute to) the code. -Mandar From rmehta at gmail.com Mon Sep 23 12:02:52 2013 From: rmehta at gmail.com (Rushabh Mehta) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 15:32:52 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] RHOK, maptree and like . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2FA0B96C-B0A1-4616-8E8B-682C776F7883@gmail.com> Hi, We have just pushed a similar app we are building for Pune http://treemapper.in https://github.com/webnotes/treemapper Would be happy to collaborate. - Rushabh W: https://erpnext.com T: @rushabh_mehta On 23-Sep-2013, at 3:30 PM, bangpypers-request at python.org wrote: > Send BangPypers mailing list submissions to > bangpypers at python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > bangpypers-request at python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > bangpypers-owner at python.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of BangPypers digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. RHOK, maptree and like .. (Mandar Vaze / ????? ???) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 15:06:48 +0530 > From: Mandar Vaze / ????? ??? > To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India , > venkat83 at gmail.com > Subject: [BangPypers] RHOK, maptree and like .. > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > (Changing the subject so as not to get "caught" in cross fire ..) > > > Does anyone know Chinmayi SK from RHOK. > > > In addition I would like more information about the app itself ? > The article says "Android app" .. "encourages users to take picture of > tree" etc. > > Couple years ago - I was part of team that tried to build a similar app > (since then I have moved on) I would be interested to try the app. > If open source, like to view (and contribute to) the code. > > -Mandar > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > ------------------------------ > > End of BangPypers Digest, Vol 73, Issue 67 > ****************************************** From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Mon Sep 23 13:36:07 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 17:06:07 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyladies Bangalore in Times of India In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 11:24 AM, Annapoornima Koppad wrote: > Dear All, > > Pyladies Bangalore was recently featured in Times of India dated, 22nd sept > and later on 23 sept as well. [1]. I am not able to find the link for the > 23rd edition. > > I thank Anand Chitipothu for making Pycon India 2013 women inclusive. Since > he has already made a comment that there was enough participation from > women, there are a few facts that I want get them straight. > > Dear Mr. Anand Chitipothu, can you please provide the exact number of women > participants in Pycon India 2013? How many women were key note speakers? I > would like a list of their email ids and names if they were women. I need > them because I want to increase the Pyladies visibility and also encourage > ladies in other cities to start Pyladies chapter in their respective towns > and cities. > > Also, Mr. Anand, can you please provide me an introduction to Shilpa > Patankar the news reporter so that I can give her the status of Pyladies > Bangalore, overview of goals, etc. > > [1]. > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/personal-tech/computing/Women-programmers-learn-to-schmooze/articleshow/22877116.cms > > I wholeheartedly thank Anand Chitipothu ( and the other volunteers) for > making Pycon India 2013 a women inclusive event. > A gentle reminder there are three mailing lists with their respective agendas as follows : bangpypers : This group is for discussions related to the Python programming language. We welcome all kinds of discussions related to Python. inpycon: This mailing list is for discussions regarding organizing Pycon India. Anyone who is interested to take an active role in discussing and/or organizing PyCon India is welcome to join the list. ipss: Discussions related to the Indian Python Software Society. I believe there is another pyladies group which discusses associated appropriate issues. I am subscribed to this mailing list because I am interested in the python programming language. Can someone please change the documented objective of this mailing list to appropriately reflect the reality if I my perception is stale or out of date. Dhananjay From supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com Mon Sep 23 14:34:17 2013 From: supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com (s|s) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 18:04:17 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyladies Bangalore in Times of India In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Learning thing or two about news flows, I would say its not diluted or distorted, it falls into a template. Like some respectable occidental reporter gets off on a port in Africa an announces "I would like talk to a women who has been raped and can speak English". News has already been written and what does not fit that template is thrown away. On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Annapoornima Koppad wrote: > @ Anand, please talk in numbers and not in words. How many women members > were present, etc? > > @Venkat, I have been nice, cordial, and don't need a better choice of > words. I dont want argue on this anymore. I would like to continue the > original thread. > > @Noufal, I am on phone with Times of India office. Yes, I want actual women > participating and not just feel good about it. Yes, it is very annoying > when the reports are diluted/distorted. > > > > > On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Anand Chitipothu >wrote: > > > > I thank Anand Chitipothu for making Pycon India 2013 women inclusive. > > Since > > > he has already made a comment that there was enough participation from > > > women, there are a few facts that I want get them straight. > > > > > > > Not sure what you mean by "women inclusive" here. PyCon India was never > > women exclusive, we always had women participants and speakers. > > > > Anand > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Supreet Sethi Ph UK: +447859172473 Ph IN: +919811143517 Ph Skype: d_j_i_n_n Profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/supreet.sethi Twt: http://twitter.com/djinn From a.koppad at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 05:03:59 2013 From: a.koppad at gmail.com (Annapoornima Koppad) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 08:33:59 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyladies Bangalore in Times of India In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear All, I would like to provide an update. I had a word with Shilpa Patankar, the reporter of the article and she agreed to correct the wrong data. Also, she will be getting in touch with me directly or whoever is in my position to get an update with regard to Pyladies Bangalore activities. These were the points that I raised with her. 1. Representatives from the different organizations were asked to provide comments. However, she had not taken my comments , neither made an attempt to get in touch with me. 2. I was told that at the last minute, she had to hurry and hence could not connect with me. However, a second version of the same article goes up again on the second day. She had no comments for that. 3. I believe she spoke to Anand Chitipothu who has both my number and email address. He could have done the kind deed of giving it to the reporter. Finally, I am talking to some of the other people on the news report, Geetha ma'am, who extended her support to me. @S bar S, Show me a rapist who will advertise first before committing a rape so that I/ law can hang him before he commits a rape. Its a pity that a women has to learn a foreign language(English) to even stand up and speak up for herself. I will leave you to live your words. Morever, I was busy last night, sending this email thread to all the women groups all over the word. The Ada initiative, The Anita Borg institute, The systers group, the Pyladies international group, the ubuntu women, the openstack group, Linuxchix, the pyladies organizers group, and the other groups that I am part of are reading this email thread currently. All others, I am pushing this thread to the Pyladies mailing list. I am sorry that I have no other go other than raise it a place where everyone will know about it. Thanks and regards, Annapoornima On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 6:04 PM, s|s wrote: > Learning thing or two about news flows, I would say its not diluted or > distorted, it falls into a template. Like some respectable occidental > reporter gets off on a port in Africa an announces "I would like talk to a > women who has been raped and can speak English". News has already been > written and what does not fit that template is thrown away. > > > On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Annapoornima Koppad >wrote: > > > @ Anand, please talk in numbers and not in words. How many women members > > were present, etc? > > > > @Venkat, I have been nice, cordial, and don't need a better choice of > > words. I dont want argue on this anymore. I would like to continue the > > original thread. > > > > @Noufal, I am on phone with Times of India office. Yes, I want actual > women > > participating and not just feel good about it. Yes, it is very annoying > > when the reports are diluted/distorted. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Anand Chitipothu > >wrote: > > > > > > I thank Anand Chitipothu for making Pycon India 2013 women inclusive. > > > Since > > > > he has already made a comment that there was enough participation > from > > > > women, there are a few facts that I want get them straight. > > > > > > > > > > Not sure what you mean by "women inclusive" here. PyCon India was never > > > women exclusive, we always had women participants and speakers. > > > > > > Anand > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BangPypers mailing list > > > BangPypers at python.org > > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > -- > Supreet Sethi > Ph UK: +447859172473 > Ph IN: +919811143517 > Ph Skype: d_j_i_n_n > Profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/supreet.sethi > Twt: http://twitter.com/djinn > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From anandpillai at letterboxes.org Tue Sep 24 05:32:28 2013 From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 09:02:28 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyladies Bangalore in Times of India In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <524107CC.7040806@letterboxes.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 23 September 2013 05:06 PM, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 11:24 AM, Annapoornima Koppad > wrote: >> Dear All, >> >> Pyladies Bangalore was recently featured in Times of India dated, >> 22nd sept and later on 23 sept as well. [1]. I am not able to >> find the link for the 23rd edition. >> >> I thank Anand Chitipothu for making Pycon India 2013 women >> inclusive. Since he has already made a comment that there was >> enough participation from women, there are a few facts that I >> want get them straight. >> >> Dear Mr. Anand Chitipothu, can you please provide the exact >> number of women participants in Pycon India 2013? How many women >> were key note speakers? I would like a list of their email ids >> and names if they were women. I need them because I want to >> increase the Pyladies visibility and also encourage ladies in >> other cities to start Pyladies chapter in their respective towns >> and cities. >> >> Also, Mr. Anand, can you please provide me an introduction to >> Shilpa Patankar the news reporter so that I can give her the >> status of Pyladies Bangalore, overview of goals, etc. >> >> [1]. >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/personal-tech/computing/Women-programmers-learn-to-schmooze/articleshow/22877116.cms >> >> >> I wholeheartedly thank Anand Chitipothu ( and the other volunteers) for >> making Pycon India 2013 a women inclusive event. >> > > A gentle reminder there are three mailing lists with their > respective agendas as follows : > > bangpypers : This group is for discussions related to > the Python programming language. We welcome all kinds > of discussions related to Python. inpycon: This mailing list is for > discussions regarding organizing Pycon India. Anyone who is > interested to take an active role in discussing and/or > organizing PyCon India is welcome to join the list. > ipss: Discussions related to the Indian Python Software Society. I > believe there is another pyladies group which discusses associated > appropriate issues. > > I am subscribed to this mailing list because I am interested in > the python programming language. Can someone please change the > documented objective of this mailing list to appropriately reflect > the reality if I my perception is stale or out of date. +1. Suggest to keep topics closer to the interpreter. There are other lists specifically devoted to discussion of diversity and related issues. This list has a lot of legacy in creating and nurturing the Python community by discussing mostly programming related topics - and not creating too many fault-lines while doing so. No more comments on this thread please. I am suggesting this as the list moderator. I am sorry to say - but any further posts to this thread will be monitored and moderated - if needed. > > Dhananjay _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > - -- Regards, - --Anand - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Software Architect/Consultant anandpillai at letterboxes.org Please note my updated email address . Kindly update your address books. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSQQfHAAoJEMTxYeOp9eaomK0H/j+tb6t6bX7YlYzciA0CiBnj 2eCdWc9HZxBt8hbp4JkDwXPBEmCNfVUT5ZRcSPPTA0Kru/TZf9/Jl/vuVkY6Esaf dMKNifDFU6iCNuBFIQyQz9mWuf7f86c5enpfGk5h+A6xM6fZL/J0XGSzu0s454lG bfJ9TMDzL5dd5w4HGS2m6SicU2Yx7azlCiqFd0eLYVR3+ZbfPb+hT/TN2o+9Avg6 fFbucgvzab1xxsye8vNsy8sAS70Op5JscmUtXBAuwllx7DBFGtqLEM5glribFRnD jMhzHvaGSGEa8+wXUrn0uBKvrZ1F2z45tEAIWhSCLXQwdaXb1nMc8J7w18KNgvs= =dofQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Tue Sep 24 05:34:42 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 09:04:42 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyladies Bangalore in Times of India In-Reply-To: <524107CC.7040806@letterboxes.org> (Anand B. Pillai's message of "Tue, 24 Sep 2013 09:02:28 +0530") References: <524107CC.7040806@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: <87zjr2uc31.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Anand B Pillai writes: [...] > +1. Suggest to keep topics closer to the interpreter. > There are other lists specifically devoted to discussion > of diversity and related issues. > > This list has a lot of legacy in creating and nurturing > the Python community by discussing mostly programming > related topics - and not creating too many fault-lines > while doing so. > > No more comments on this thread please. I am suggesting > this as the list moderator. > > I am sorry to say - but any further posts to this thread will > be monitored and moderated - if needed. [...] Agreed. This whole "discussion" is closer to what Inpycon was made for. If any of the OPs want to continue it there, please do so but leave BangPypers out of it. -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From babmis at outlook.com Tue Sep 24 07:08:16 2013 From: babmis at outlook.com (bab mis) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 10:38:16 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] (no subject) Message-ID: Hi ,Any XML parser which gives the same kind of data structure as yaml parser gives in python. Tried with xmlmindom but ir's not of a proper datastrucure ,every time i need to read by element and create the dict. From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Tue Sep 24 07:09:33 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 10:39:33 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: (bab mis's message of "Tue, 24 Sep 2013 10:38:16 +0530") References: Message-ID: <87ioxqu7oy.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> bab mis writes: > Hi ,Any XML parser which gives the same kind of data structure as yaml > parser gives in python. Tried with xmlmindom but ir's not of a proper > datastrucure ,every time i need to read by element and create the > dict. lxml probably. The ElementTree API in the standard library gives you an API better than than the DOM ones but that's not saying much. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From babmis at outlook.com Tue Sep 24 07:13:02 2013 From: babmis at outlook.com (bab mis) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 10:43:02 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] XML parser in python returns data strucure as YAML parser do In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: babmis at outlook.com To: bangpypers at python.org Subject: Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 10:38:16 +0530 Hi ,Any XML parser which gives the same kind of data structure as yaml parser gives in python. Tried with xmlmindom but ir's not of a proper datastrucure ,every time i need to read by element and create the dict. From pratham.gadre at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 10:17:27 2013 From: pratham.gadre at gmail.com (Pratham Gadre) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 08:17:27 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyladies Bangalore in Times of India In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Please forgive me for replying to this thread. I would have written to her off-list, but she has a pretty reputation of slamming who sends her an email! On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 3:03 AM, Annapoornima Koppad wrote: > Morever, I was busy last night, sending this email thread to all the women > groups all over the word. The Ada initiative, The Anita Borg institute, The > systers group, the Pyladies international group, the ubuntu women, the > openstack group, Linuxchix, the pyladies organizers group, and the other > groups that I am part of are reading this email thread currently. > with reference to the earlier incident, I believed this lady, had some good motive and initiative. But, it seems, she is pretty much misguided. I pity all the people on the other lists, who have been spammed by this lady! Lady, take a deep breath, realise that you are making a 'fool' out of yourself on not one, but many public mailing lists. Why are you so bitter? Thank you. From baiju.m.mail at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 11:03:32 2013 From: baiju.m.mail at gmail.com (Baiju M) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 14:33:32 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] September Bangpypers meetup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, We had a great BangPypers meetup last Saturday. I have uploaded few photos at meetup site (The photos are showing up in July meetup, can someone change it to September meetup ?) http://www.meetup.com/BangPypers/photos/16191232/285368942/#285368942 Around 30 people came for the meetup. It started at 3.00 pm and finished at 6.00 pm. We had some good talks. If anyone has any notes, please share. On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Baiju M wrote: > BTW, the venue for today's meeting has been finalized and it was > updated in the meetup site: > http://www.meetup.com/BangPypers/events/125800202/ > > Here is the address: > > ZeOmega Infotech Pvt. Ltd. > "Subhashri Pride", 3rd Floor, South End Road, > Basavanagudi, Bangalore-560-004 > (Just look for "Axis Bank", it's the same building) > > Those who are coming by bus from Majestic/K.R Market look for 15 or > 210 buses with extension. > You can get down at "Tata Silk Farm" bus stop. Our office is just 2 > minutes walk-able from the > bus stop. > > My mobile number: 9945973441 > > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 12:20 PM, kracekumar ramaraju > wrote: >> Hi All >> >> We have Bangpypers meetup on september from 3.00 PM to 6.00PM - >> http://www.meetup.com/BangPypers/events/125800202/. Unfortunately myself >> and Anand are unavailable. >> >> We don't venue and co-ordinator. We have 96 RSVPS but can expect 20 - 40 >> people depending on the location. We are looking for organizer and venue. >> Anyone up for it? >> >> -- >> * >> Thanks & Regards >> >> "Talk is cheap, show me the code" -- Linus Torvalds >> kracekumar >> www.kracekumar.com >> * >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From anandpillai at letterboxes.org Tue Sep 24 11:19:47 2013 From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 14:49:47 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyladies Bangalore in Times of India In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52415933.7010701@letterboxes.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 24 September 2013 01:47 PM, Pratham Gadre wrote: > Please forgive me for replying to this thread. I would have written > to her off-list, but she has a pretty reputation of slamming who > sends her an email! > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 3:03 AM, Annapoornima Koppad > wrote: > >> Morever, I was busy last night, sending this email thread to all >> the women groups all over the word. The Ada initiative, The Anita >> Borg institute, The systers group, the Pyladies international >> group, the ubuntu women, the openstack group, Linuxchix, the >> pyladies organizers group, and the other groups that I am part of >> are reading this email thread currently. >> > > with reference to the earlier incident, I believed this lady, had > some good motive and initiative. But, it seems, she is pretty much > misguided. I pity all the people on the other lists, who have been > spammed by this lady! > > Lady, take a deep breath, realise that you are making a 'fool' out > of yourself on not one, but many public mailing lists. Why are you > so bitter? > Thank you. The topic is modded. No more posts allowed. In general, please take your personal agendas off this list. Enough is enough. > Thank you. _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > - -- Regards, - --Anand - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Software Architect/Consultant anandpillai at letterboxes.org Please note my updated email address . Kindly update your address books. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSQVkzAAoJEMTxYeOp9eao3a8H/3Eah4qnTZ3SCyn9Up9qLTlH 2MPpvRKOsAAuiGeQm/Sx4oH4cNUYYCaiBmhQLDpAWQ+wNGs5Uus3z8HBARU9GRGl DAy6KH8Sl+brWaHYArB2eSuuq/4ZHnhmb1gTP+1Jqb0GkrTGQkFuW1/kTGMcwD9x 6L7bWo215TotReEeaSbdecjW2VoFqBoT/y56IrOLa9B/p14WM2p6gQZiea3Z1nKW 9rZx2lPMKBjG66q++KZ5FHHC1pSFEe/6myw9KRy2bngcD2GRHpVRlccSZwSmch/L l44nUwaOC6cWfY8mUWPQ8Bmr/VfhiPSDKwUBWGGGUMic5RUV8myg2NoIffsPZ8E= =4oRp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From anandology at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 11:23:28 2013 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 14:53:28 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] September Bangpypers meetup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Baiju M wrote: > Hi, > > We had a great BangPypers meetup last Saturday. I have uploaded few > photos at meetup site (The photos are showing up in July meetup, can > someone change it to September meetup ?) > > http://www.meetup.com/BangPypers/photos/16191232/285368942/#285368942 Bad interface, it is not allowing me to create a new album without adding a photo. I've made you an admin, please see if you can fix it. Anand From anandpillai at letterboxes.org Tue Sep 24 11:33:00 2013 From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 15:03:00 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] September Bangpypers meetup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52415C4C.1040206@letterboxes.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 24 September 2013 02:33 PM, Baiju M wrote: > Hi, > > We had a great BangPypers meetup last Saturday. I have uploaded > few photos at meetup site (The photos are showing up in July > meetup, can someone change it to September meetup ?) > > http://www.meetup.com/BangPypers/photos/16191232/285368942/#285368942 > > Around 30 people came for the meetup. It started at 3.00 pm and > finished at 6.00 pm. We had some good talks. If anyone has any > notes, please share. That sounds very good. It has been a long time since we had that kind of response. Keep up the good work. We need more efforts like this to spread the cheer. > > > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Baiju M > wrote: >> BTW, the venue for today's meeting has been finalized and it was >> updated in the meetup site: >> http://www.meetup.com/BangPypers/events/125800202/ >> >> Here is the address: >> >> ZeOmega Infotech Pvt. Ltd. "Subhashri Pride", 3rd Floor, South >> End Road, Basavanagudi, Bangalore-560-004 (Just look for "Axis >> Bank", it's the same building) >> >> Those who are coming by bus from Majestic/K.R Market look for 15 >> or 210 buses with extension. You can get down at "Tata Silk Farm" >> bus stop. Our office is just 2 minutes walk-able from the bus >> stop. >> >> My mobile number: 9945973441 >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 12:20 PM, kracekumar ramaraju >> wrote: >>> Hi All >>> >>> We have Bangpypers meetup on september from 3.00 PM to 6.00PM >>> - http://www.meetup.com/BangPypers/events/125800202/. >>> Unfortunately myself and Anand are unavailable. >>> >>> We don't venue and co-ordinator. We have 96 RSVPS but can >>> expect 20 - 40 people depending on the location. We are looking >>> for organizer and venue. Anyone up for it? >>> >>> -- * Thanks & Regards >>> >>> "Talk is cheap, show me the code" -- Linus Torvalds kracekumar >>> www.kracekumar.com * >>> _______________________________________________ BangPypers >>> mailing list BangPypers at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing > list BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > - -- Regards, - --Anand - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Software Architect/Consultant anandpillai at letterboxes.org Please note my updated email address . Kindly update your address books. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSQVxMAAoJEMTxYeOp9eaon7IIAMmcK/EX96PRh/cP0hl5gj3M 1D9eYEdgBChzYRfxmGlHXhg48TO5auPXH9KdF+iOAZr5IHyvCjh4BYm62sJZbEMY K5AkuNjW1CIx8AspzshD1IvinJdktELONzFKOckfpPnLCfnomjhJtCxScoXd9mme TAgC3i023cniXI/ALAmCBseEptKb2On2W36VmMhjE/BqUQPlZoloqC59Fb3N/jSD F9gUY7rRakZBdUcOrhnZMMh9y/V1vZp7Fq0IN61rQwIe88fFwnp3P3xVAPvpGw2S 6snhjuRZ121wSdHfGi8reKaThOzfWSWYdYVp0fBwPEG/U6qtPsZyYyVrAJjKj68= =xH4D -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kracethekingmaker at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 11:34:49 2013 From: kracethekingmaker at gmail.com (kracekumar ramaraju) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 15:04:49 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] September Bangpypers meetup In-Reply-To: <52415C4C.1040206@letterboxes.org> References: <52415C4C.1040206@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: For july month meetup there was 60+ participants :-) From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Tue Sep 24 11:34:21 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 15:04:21 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] September Bangpypers meetup In-Reply-To: <52415C4C.1040206@letterboxes.org> (Anand B. Pillai's message of "Tue, 24 Sep 2013 15:03:00 +0530") References: <52415C4C.1040206@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: <87a9j2r2aq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Anand B Pillai writes: [...] > That sounds very good. It has been a long time since we had that > kind of response. Keep up the good work. > > We need more efforts like this to spread the cheer. I think keeping http://bangalore.python.org.in/ upto date would be nice. A one stop shop for all Python activity in B'lore. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From anandpillai at letterboxes.org Tue Sep 24 11:40:16 2013 From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 15:10:16 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] September Bangpypers meetup In-Reply-To: References: <52415C4C.1040206@letterboxes.org> Message-ID: <52415E00.3030607@letterboxes.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 24 September 2013 03:04 PM, kracekumar ramaraju wrote: > For july month meetup there was 60+ participants :-) Wasn't aware - possibly we have not been updating the blog often ? I think we should sent out emails like what Baiju did with a blurb of the event + photos to the list once the event is done. Not sure if we have been doing it consistently. > _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing > list BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > - -- Regards, - --Anand - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Software Architect/Consultant anandpillai at letterboxes.org Please note my updated email address . Kindly update your address books. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSQV4AAAoJEMTxYeOp9eaoJo8IANNJH6g/1IfMacJdOcz84fV0 IRtaIPw94xJMhQ1rgBKw+4HPtCfbk3uNy8icjF39OFECSepAn/2o31jCUMCASD+0 D7pzjVulJuQYc0pPCrC7llIAeWUnGY4tbdeEbCFfsCp/u935HuWgRPMjgYvC8YNY QcPXtCS+6zEliZ5ERzp31ZKa6rXegZiS6VlhXFNQJEjx2ZTNXLM0/o1RjTp6jWF7 ePlsWGxnk1/fSO+bksFuXewEgM3+kc3pkXf6mu5ekJkbXqQgfMly2sM+FrBMZj83 lL0epzMEbKOqIR524uK3y/ZQc2PuJfrttuahDZzp5K3cIT/WQJCiVYy0TXZjIjI= =oCQT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kracethekingmaker at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 11:38:23 2013 From: kracethekingmaker at gmail.com (kracekumar ramaraju) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 15:08:23 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] September Bangpypers meetup In-Reply-To: <87a9j2r2aq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <52415C4C.1040206@letterboxes.org> <87a9j2r2aq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: I haven't updated since last two months, I will update this month activities. From sameerkatti at live.com Tue Sep 24 12:43:44 2013 From: sameerkatti at live.com (sameerkatti) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 03:43:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [BangPypers] File upload to Server using FTP in Django? Message-ID: <1380019424616-5033494.post@n6.nabble.com> Hello, I am trying to incorporate FTP using 'pyftplib' in Django. I tried searching in the forum for help. When i attach a file and click send, i do not get any error but the page is redirected to "File Uploaded" template. I wish to know the procedure for the same. I have the code running in my project views file. Thanks in Advance Regards Sameer Katti -- View this message in context: http://python.6.x6.nabble.com/File-upload-to-Server-using-FTP-in-Django-tp5033494.html Sent from the Bangalore (BangPypers) mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From gora at mimirtech.com Tue Sep 24 13:15:39 2013 From: gora at mimirtech.com (Gora Mohanty) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 16:45:39 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] File upload to Server using FTP in Django? In-Reply-To: <1380019424616-5033494.post@n6.nabble.com> References: <1380019424616-5033494.post@n6.nabble.com> Message-ID: On 24 September 2013 16:13, sameerkatti wrote: > Hello, > > I am trying to incorporate FTP using 'pyftplib' in Django. > > I tried searching in the forum for help. > > When i attach a file and click send, i do not get any error but the page is > redirected to "File Uploaded" template. [...] Nobody is going to be able to figure out your issue unless you share some code. Regards, Gora From sameerkatti at live.com Tue Sep 24 14:04:34 2013 From: sameerkatti at live.com (sameerkatti) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 05:04:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [BangPypers] File upload to Server using FTP in Django? In-Reply-To: References: <1380019424616-5033494.post@n6.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1380024274855-5033502.post@n6.nabble.com> Hi, I said i want to know the entire procedure. Code is not the issue. I wanted to know whether i am following the right procedure. Regards Sameer -- View this message in context: http://python.6.x6.nabble.com/File-upload-to-Server-using-FTP-in-Django-tp5033494p5033502.html Sent from the Bangalore (BangPypers) mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 13:59:14 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 17:29:14 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:38 AM, bab mis wrote: > Hi ,Any XML parser which gives the same kind of data structure as yaml parser gives in python. Tried with xmlmindom but ir's not of a proper datastrucure ,every time i need to read by element and create the dict. Just think about it for a moment. yaml consists of dicts and lists. xml on the other hand consists of ordered sequences of named nodes each of which is simultaneously a dict of attributes and a collection of additional ordered sequences of nodes. Its hard to stuff XML into native python constructs like dicts and lists. They just don't map well. If you could make assumptions about the XML having specific constraints which would allow it to be cast into dicts and lists, you could with trivial effort write a transformer to transform a DOM into a bunch of lists and dicts. In other words - the issue is not the tool - it is the domain you are dealing with. From naikvin at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 14:18:43 2013 From: naikvin at gmail.com (Vineet Naik) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 17:48:43 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:38 AM, bab mis wrote: > Hi ,Any XML parser which gives the same kind of data structure as yaml > parser gives in python. Tried with xmlmindom but ir's not of a proper > datastrucure ,every time i need to read by element and create the dict. > You can try xmltodict[1]. It also retains the node attributes and makes than accessible using the '@' prefix (See the example in README of the repo) [1]: https://github.com/martinblech/xmltodict > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Vineet Naik From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 14:34:44 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 18:04:44 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Vineet Naik wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:38 AM, bab mis wrote: > >> Hi ,Any XML parser which gives the same kind of data structure as yaml >> parser gives in python. Tried with xmlmindom but ir's not of a proper >> datastrucure ,every time i need to read by element and create the dict. >> > > You can try xmltodict[1]. It also retains the node attributes and makes > than accessible using the '@' prefix (See the example in README of the repo) > > [1]: https://github.com/martinblech/xmltodict Being curious I immediately took a look and tried the following : import xmltodict doc1 = xmltodict.parse(""" elements more elements element as well """) doc2 = xmltodict.parse(""" more elements element as well """) print(doc1['mydocument']['and']) print(doc2['mydocument']['and']) The output was : OrderedDict([(u'many', [u'elements', u'more elements'])]) OrderedDict([(u'many', u'more elements')]) The only difference is there is only one "many" node inside the "and" node in doc2. Do you see an issue here (at least I do). The output structure is a function of the cardinality of the inner nodes. Since it changes shape from a list of many to not a list of 1 but just 1 element (throwing away the list). Which can make things rather unpredictable. Since you cannot predict upfront whether the existence of just one node inside a parent node is consistent with the xml schema or is just applicable in that particular instance. I do think the problem is tractable so long as one clearly documents the specific constraints which the underlying XML will satisfy, constraints which will allow transformations to lists or dicts safe. Trying to make it easy without clearly documenting the constraints could lead to violations of the principle of least surprise like above. > > >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> > > > > -- > Vineet Naik > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene google plus: http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene From kapoor.vaidik at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 14:35:12 2013 From: kapoor.vaidik at gmail.com (Vaidik Kapoor) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 18:05:12 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > You can try xmltodict[1]. It also retains the node attributes and makes > than accessible using the '@' prefix (See the example in README of the repo) +1 for xmltodict From gora at mimirtech.com Tue Sep 24 14:40:15 2013 From: gora at mimirtech.com (Gora Mohanty) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 18:10:15 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] File upload to Server using FTP in Django? In-Reply-To: <1380024274855-5033502.post@n6.nabble.com> References: <1380019424616-5033494.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380024274855-5033502.post@n6.nabble.com> Message-ID: On 24 September 2013 17:34, sameerkatti wrote: > Hi, > > I said i want to know the entire procedure. > > Code is not the issue. > > I wanted to know whether i am following the right procedure. Same issue there: You do not share nearly enough information for anyone to be able to help you. What procedure are you following? Just saying that you have some code in a Django view that is throwing an error, does not give anyone any clue. Regards, Gora From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 14:41:30 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 18:11:30 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Vineet Naik wrote: >> Hi, >> >> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:38 AM, bab mis wrote: >> >>> Hi ,Any XML parser which gives the same kind of data structure as yaml >>> parser gives in python. Tried with xmlmindom but ir's not of a proper >>> datastrucure ,every time i need to read by element and create the dict. >>> >> >> You can try xmltodict[1]. It also retains the node attributes and makes >> than accessible using the '@' prefix (See the example in README of the repo) >> >> [1]: https://github.com/martinblech/xmltodict > > Being curious I immediately took a look and tried the following : > > import xmltodict > > doc1 = xmltodict.parse(""" > > > elements > more elements > > > element as well > > > """) > > doc2 = xmltodict.parse(""" > > > more elements > > > element as well > > > """) > print(doc1['mydocument']['and']) > print(doc2['mydocument']['and']) > > The output was : > OrderedDict([(u'many', [u'elements', u'more elements'])]) > OrderedDict([(u'many', u'more elements')]) > > The only difference is there is only one "many" node inside the "and" > node in doc2. Do you see an issue here (at least I do). The output > structure is a function of the cardinality of the inner nodes. Since > it changes shape from a list of many to not a list of 1 but just 1 > element (throwing away the list). Which can make things rather > unpredictable. Since you cannot predict upfront whether the existence > of just one node inside a parent node is consistent with the xml > schema or is just applicable in that particular instance. > > I do think the problem is tractable so long as one clearly documents > the specific constraints which the underlying XML will satisfy, > constraints which will allow transformations to lists or dicts safe. > Trying to make it easy without clearly documenting the constraints > could lead to violations of the principle of least surprise like > above. > It gets even more interesting, eg. below doc3 = xmltodict.parse(""" elements element as well more elements """) print(doc3['mydocument']['and']) leads to the output : [OrderedDict([(u'many', u'elements')]), OrderedDict([(u'many', u'more elements')])] Definitely not what would be naively expected. From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 14:49:23 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 18:19:23 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 6:11 PM, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Dhananjay Nene > wrote: >> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Vineet Naik wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:38 AM, bab mis wrote: >>> >>>> Hi ,Any XML parser which gives the same kind of data structure as yaml >>>> parser gives in python. Tried with xmlmindom but ir's not of a proper >>>> datastrucure ,every time i need to read by element and create the dict. >>>> >>> >>> You can try xmltodict[1]. It also retains the node attributes and makes >>> than accessible using the '@' prefix (See the example in README of the repo) >>> >>> [1]: https://github.com/martinblech/xmltodict >> >> Being curious I immediately took a look and tried the following : >> >> import xmltodict >> >> doc1 = xmltodict.parse(""" >> >> >> elements >> more elements >> >> >> element as well >> >> >> """) >> >> doc2 = xmltodict.parse(""" >> >> >> more elements >> >> >> element as well >> >> >> """) >> print(doc1['mydocument']['and']) >> print(doc2['mydocument']['and']) >> >> The output was : >> OrderedDict([(u'many', [u'elements', u'more elements'])]) >> OrderedDict([(u'many', u'more elements')]) >> >> The only difference is there is only one "many" node inside the "and" >> node in doc2. Do you see an issue here (at least I do). The output >> structure is a function of the cardinality of the inner nodes. Since >> it changes shape from a list of many to not a list of 1 but just 1 >> element (throwing away the list). Which can make things rather >> unpredictable. Since you cannot predict upfront whether the existence >> of just one node inside a parent node is consistent with the xml >> schema or is just applicable in that particular instance. >> >> I do think the problem is tractable so long as one clearly documents >> the specific constraints which the underlying XML will satisfy, >> constraints which will allow transformations to lists or dicts safe. >> Trying to make it easy without clearly documenting the constraints >> could lead to violations of the principle of least surprise like >> above. >> > It gets even more interesting, eg. below > > doc3 = xmltodict.parse(""" > > > elements > > > element as well > > > more elements > > > """) > > print(doc3['mydocument']['and']) > > leads to the output : > > [OrderedDict([(u'many', u'elements')]), OrderedDict([(u'many', u'more > elements')])] > > Definitely not what would be naively expected. Correction: print(doc3['mydocument']) prints OrderedDict([(u'@has', u'an attribute'), (u'and', [OrderedDict([(u'many', u'elements')]), OrderedDict([(u'many', u'more elements')])]), (u'plus', OrderedDict([(u'@a', u'complex'), ('#text', u'element as well')]))]) which just trashed the ordering of an and followed by a plus followed by an and. Dhananjay -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene google plus: http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene From sameerkatti at live.com Tue Sep 24 18:51:47 2013 From: sameerkatti at live.com (sameerkatti) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 09:51:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [BangPypers] File upload to Server using FTP in Django? In-Reply-To: References: <1380019424616-5033494.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380024274855-5033502.post@n6.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1380041507358-5033548.post@n6.nabble.com> I am using the Django Framework and i have written a small snippet in a function in views.py The same function is called in the urls.py . The code in the Views is /session = ftplib.FTP('abc.com','Username','Password') file = open('filename','rb') session.storbinary('STOR filename', file) file.close() session.quit()/ I am trying to upload a random file through the template, it throws a error as *'cannot concatenate 'str' and 'InMemoryUploadedFile' objects'* I'm very new to Django and Python. -- View this message in context: http://python.6.x6.nabble.com/File-upload-to-Server-using-FTP-in-Django-tp5033494p5033548.html Sent from the Bangalore (BangPypers) mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From gora at mimirtech.com Tue Sep 24 19:58:10 2013 From: gora at mimirtech.com (Gora Mohanty) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 23:28:10 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] File upload to Server using FTP in Django? In-Reply-To: <1380041507358-5033548.post@n6.nabble.com> References: <1380019424616-5033494.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380024274855-5033502.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380041507358-5033548.post@n6.nabble.com> Message-ID: On 24 September 2013 22:21, sameerkatti wrote: > I am using the Django Framework and i have written a small snippet in a > function in views.py > The same function is called in the urls.py . > > The code in the Views is > > /session = ftplib.FTP('abc.com','Username','Password') > file = open('filename','rb') > session.storbinary('STOR filename', file) > file.close() > session.quit()/ > > I am trying to upload a random file through the template, it throws a error > as > *'cannot concatenate 'str' and 'InMemoryUploadedFile' objects'* > > I'm very new to Django and Python. I am sorry, but trying to help you is like trying to extract teeth. Please provide sufficient details so that others without access to your system can guess what is going on. This code cannot possibly run, as there is a syntax error in the very first line. Besides that: * What is 'filename' on line 2? Does it exist? * Where is 'filename' derived from? * Where is the error thrown? I do not see anything in the above code which would cause that error, so my best guess is that you have not seen fit to show us the complete code. Regards, Gora From scorpion032 at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 20:10:20 2013 From: scorpion032 at gmail.com (Lakshman Prasad) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 23:40:20 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Teaching Python in school Message-ID: Here is a teacher in Alaska who is pleased using IPython Notebooks stored on Github for teaching his students : http://peak5390.wordpress.com/2013/09/22/how-ipython-notebook-and-github-have-changed-the-way-i-teach-python/ In the programming community, it should be fairly obvious to us that this is the good way. Given our recent outreach efforts to colleges, this can be a good resource to point to them for why and how it helps in education. The teachers may, as appropriate adopt the relevant notebooks for their curriculum, or just the process. These are the days when books are written on IPython notebooks by forking on Github! How I wished I was a decade younger and in college today! From sameerkatti at live.com Tue Sep 24 20:38:45 2013 From: sameerkatti at live.com (sameerkatti) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [BangPypers] File upload to Server using FTP in Django? In-Reply-To: References: <1380019424616-5033494.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380024274855-5033502.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380041507358-5033548.post@n6.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1380047925000-5033555.post@n6.nabble.com> Chill, I took care of the problem myself. I have run this code and i was able to upload it to the server. May be u have learnt some different python. Regards -- View this message in context: http://python.6.x6.nabble.com/File-upload-to-Server-using-FTP-in-Django-tp5033494p5033555.html Sent from the Bangalore (BangPypers) mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From palakmathur at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 20:40:25 2013 From: palakmathur at gmail.com (Palak Mathur) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 13:40:25 -0500 Subject: [BangPypers] Teaching Python in school In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Lakshman Prasad wrote: > How I wished I was a decade younger and in college today! So true. This surely is a nice way for teachers and learners both to adopt and use in their curriculum. Regards, Palak Mathur http://palakmathur.in http://aatmiyata.wordpress.com http://palakclicks.wordpress.com From amit.pureenergy at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 21:01:35 2013 From: amit.pureenergy at gmail.com (Amit Sethi) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 00:31:35 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] File upload to Server using FTP in Django? In-Reply-To: <1380047925000-5033555.post@n6.nabble.com> References: <1380019424616-5033494.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380024274855-5033502.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380041507358-5033548.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380047925000-5033555.post@n6.nabble.com> Message-ID: Hi Sameerkatti , First of all , My first recommendation would be not to possibly to do what you are trying to . If you have to an open ftp connection to upload a file in a web application. I am also most certain that there is something wrong in your application by design . 2. Wether you like it or not you will have to be more explicit with the code you share when asking a question. As Gora has pointed it is not sufficiently clear what you are doing. I am also sure that in "my python" which as you have pointed out may not be same as yours , there would have been a much more explanatory traceback with the line number of error and many other details which most people seem to require when debugging. 3. Perhaps most importantly you need to learn some modesty and humility which I think pays a much more important role in successfully building software application . Much more than working code -- A-M-I-T S|S From modi.konark at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 21:07:36 2013 From: modi.konark at gmail.com (konark modi) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 00:37:36 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Teaching Python in school In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for sharing this... Very nice... On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Palak Mathur wrote: > On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Lakshman Prasad >wrote: > > > How I wished I was a decade younger and in college today! > > > So true. This surely is a nice way for teachers and learners both to adopt > and use in their curriculum. > > > Regards, > Palak Mathur > http://palakmathur.in > http://aatmiyata.wordpress.com > http://palakclicks.wordpress.com > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From amit.pureenergy at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 21:23:07 2013 From: amit.pureenergy at gmail.com (Amit Sethi) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 00:53:07 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] File upload to Server using FTP in Django? In-Reply-To: References: <1380019424616-5033494.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380024274855-5033502.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380041507358-5033548.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380047925000-5033555.post@n6.nabble.com> Message-ID: By the way for 1. I do not mean you should not use ftp at all but opening a connection syncronously with the request/response flow of your web app may definitely be a bad idea -- A-M-I-T S|S From ramdaz at gmail.com Tue Sep 24 22:40:38 2013 From: ramdaz at gmail.com (Ramdas S) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 02:10:38 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] File upload to Server using FTP in Django? In-Reply-To: References: <1380019424616-5033494.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380024274855-5033502.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380041507358-5033548.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380047925000-5033555.post@n6.nabble.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 12:31 AM, Amit Sethi wrote: > Hi Sameerkatti , > > First of all , My first recommendation would be not to possibly to do what > you are trying to . > If you have to an open ftp connection to upload a file in a web > application. I am also most certain that > there is something wrong in your application by design . > > 2. Wether you like it or not you will have to be more explicit with the > code you share when asking a question. > As Gora has pointed it is not sufficiently clear what you are doing. I am > also sure that in "my python" which as > you have pointed out may not be same as yours , there would have been a > much more explanatory traceback with the line number of error > and many other details which most people seem to require when debugging. > > 3. Perhaps most importantly you need to learn some modesty and humility > which I think pays a much more important role in > successfully building software application . Much more than working code > > +1. Humility helps especially if you need help from forums > > > > > -- > A-M-I-T S|S > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Ramdas S +91 9342 583 065 My Personal Blog on http://ramdaz.wordpress.com From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Wed Sep 25 05:54:21 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 09:24:21 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] File upload to Server using FTP in Django? In-Reply-To: <1380047925000-5033555.post@n6.nabble.com> (sameerkatti@live.com's message of "Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:38:45 -0700 (PDT)") References: <1380019424616-5033494.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380024274855-5033502.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380041507358-5033548.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380047925000-5033555.post@n6.nabble.com> Message-ID: <87ob7hmu8i.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> sameerkatti writes: > Chill, > I took care of the problem myself. > > I have run this code and i was able to upload it to the server. > > May be u have learnt some different python. You should read your email after a few months when you're no longer working on the project and see how incomprehensible it is. Please read this before posting questions on this (or any other) mailing list. http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Also, your attempted at being snide is not welcome or warranted. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From i.amber.jain at gmail.com Wed Sep 25 07:11:33 2013 From: i.amber.jain at gmail.com (Amber Jain) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 10:41:33 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Functional testing wih headless browser framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, > > On 17 September 2013 02:24, Amit Sethi > > wrote: > > > > Hi , > > > > > > > > I am looking to add some functional testing to my application. I have > > > seen > > > > a couple of tools via google search but the reason I am a little > > > > circumspect is that last time, I did something similar using selenium > > and > > > > it seemed lack some requirements of mine.(It was not exacty headless) > > > [...] > > Am I late to the party? :) Thanks to many useful replies, we have so many alternatives to choose from: Selenium, PhantomJS, SlimerJS, CasperJS, ZombieJS, Splinter and many others. But here's a highly opinionated email advocating Selenium. Most of the alternatives to Selenium do functional testing. But Selenium does *cross browser* functional testing. For e.g. PhantomJS does headless WebKit. But what about browsers that don't use WebKit? What about Mozilla (which uses Gecko) or IE (which uses Trident)? To be precise, even PhantomJS uses QtWebKit (https://github.com/ariya/phantomjs/issues/11074). This means that PhantomJS's JavaScript engine is different from the one used by Chrome. For many small projects, this probably does not matters a lot. However, if you have a large user base with diverse browser preferences, you need to do cross browser functional testing (at least for all the browsers you claim to support), and for this you need 'real' web browsers. Even though one of my favorite xkcd strip mocks Standards ( http://xkcd.com/927/), Selenium WebDriver is on the path to become a W3C standard now (a W3C working draft was released few months ago http://www.w3.org/TR/webdriver/). So, being a standard, Selenium will steal the show whenever it comes to cross browser functional testing (even though other alternatives beat Selenium in many use cases). Moreover, development on other alternative projects *might* stall due to lack of contributors or inactivity. But we can 'expect' that W3C, Selenium/WebDriver team and browser vendors will actively develop/support Selenium WebDriver (I say 'expect' because many browser vendors introduce incompatible extensions to standards). One disadvantage of using Selenium is that it is slower than other alternatives (as it actually fires up a web browser and browsers are slow beasts!) There are use cases, other than functional testing, when using Selenium will be overkill and a waste of resources (such as automating boring web administration tasks). It is upto you to decide whether you want 100% coverage on functional testing front (with Selenium's cross browser support) or you want to save resources/money at the expense of <100% functional testing coverage (by using other alternatives). @Amit: Selenium fulfills all your stated requirements (It runs JS in a real web browser, supports headless mode with Xvfb, has CLI, integrates well with popular/most CI and testing tools). If 'headless-less' ;-) Selenium was the only reason that forced you to look into alternatives, you can use Selenium in headless mode using Xvfb (as many others had already said). Here's a bash script to setup Selenium/Xvfb/Chrome for you (works at least on Ubuntu 12.04): https://gist.github.com/amberj/6695353 (If you need to do functional testing on some other web browser, install it and it's Selenium driver instead of Chrome/ChromeDriver). Hope this helps! -- Amber Jain i.amber.jain at gmail.com http://amberj.devio.us/ From sameerkatti at live.com Wed Sep 25 09:12:24 2013 From: sameerkatti at live.com (sameerkatti) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 00:12:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [BangPypers] File upload to Server using FTP in Django? In-Reply-To: <87ob7hmu8i.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <1380019424616-5033494.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380024274855-5033502.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380041507358-5033548.post@n6.nabble.com> <1380047925000-5033555.post@n6.nabble.com> <87ob7hmu8i.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <1380093144555-5033602.post@n6.nabble.com> hello, My apologies to every one here, but i have already mentioned in my first post that i am new to Django and Python. I asked clearly that i need to transfer files using FTP and the procedure for the same. Not that i am struck in the middle of the something. I asked humbly which would be the best possible procedure to start with. I do not have a clear picture on that. Hence i asked on the forum. I cannot help if my question is wrongly interpreted. -- View this message in context: http://python.6.x6.nabble.com/File-upload-to-Server-using-FTP-in-Django-tp5033494p5033602.html Sent from the Bangalore (BangPypers) mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From naikvin at gmail.com Wed Sep 25 15:39:31 2013 From: naikvin at gmail.com (Vineet Naik) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 19:09:31 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 6:11 PM, Dhananjay Nene > wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Dhananjay Nene > > wrote: > >> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Vineet Naik wrote: > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:38 AM, bab mis wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi ,Any XML parser which gives the same kind of data structure as yaml > >>>> parser gives in python. Tried with xmlmindom but ir's not of a proper > >>>> datastrucure ,every time i need to read by element and create the > dict. > >>>> > >>> > >>> You can try xmltodict[1]. It also retains the node attributes and makes > >>> than accessible using the '@' prefix (See the example in README of the > repo) > >>> > >>> [1]: https://github.com/martinblech/xmltodict > >> > >> Being curious I immediately took a look and tried the following : > >> > >> import xmltodict > >> > >> doc1 = xmltodict.parse(""" > >> > >> > >> elements > >> more elements > >> > >> > >> element as well > >> > >> > >> """) > >> > >> doc2 = xmltodict.parse(""" > >> > >> > >> more elements > >> > >> > >> element as well > >> > >> > >> """) > >> print(doc1['mydocument']['and']) > >> print(doc2['mydocument']['and']) > >> > >> The output was : > >> OrderedDict([(u'many', [u'elements', u'more elements'])]) > >> OrderedDict([(u'many', u'more elements')]) > >> > >> The only difference is there is only one "many" node inside the "and" > >> node in doc2. Do you see an issue here (at least I do). The output > >> structure is a function of the cardinality of the inner nodes. Since > >> it changes shape from a list of many to not a list of 1 but just 1 > >> element (throwing away the list). Which can make things rather > >> unpredictable. Since you cannot predict upfront whether the existence > >> of just one node inside a parent node is consistent with the xml > >> schema or is just applicable in that particular instance. > >> > >> I do think the problem is tractable so long as one clearly documents > >> the specific constraints which the underlying XML will satisfy, > >> constraints which will allow transformations to lists or dicts safe. > >> Trying to make it easy without clearly documenting the constraints > >> could lead to violations of the principle of least surprise like > >> above. > >> > The README does mention that it's based on this "spec"[1] (or rather a blog post) that has the assumptions. But it seems to be missing a lot of documentation in general as well. Out of curiosity I looked into the code to see if the author has left any comments about this inconsistency (value type varying between lists and unicode/OrderedDict). While there are no such comments, I found that the `parse` function can take a keyword arg `dict_constructor`, so any other dict-like structure can be used instead of OrderedDict. for eg. to force every node to be inside a list irrespective of the cardinality - import xmltodict from collections import defaultdict doc2 = xmltodict.parse(""" more elements element as well """, dict_constructor=lambda *a, **k: defaultdict(list)) >>> doc2 defaultdict(, {u'mydocument': [defaultdict(, {u'and': [defaultdict(, {u'many': [u'more elements']})], u'plus': [defaultdict(, {'#text': [u'element as well'], u'@a': u'complex'})], u'@has': u'an attribute'})]}) >>> doc2['mydocument'][0]['and'][0]['many'] [u'more elements'] Of course, defaultdict would lead to the order of nodes being lost, but an "OrderedDefaultDict" (never tried before :-)) might work. > > It gets even more interesting, eg. below > > > > doc3 = xmltodict.parse(""" > > > > > > elements > > > > > > element as well > > > > > > more elements > > > > > > """) > > > > print(doc3['mydocument']['and']) > > > > leads to the output : > > > > [OrderedDict([(u'many', u'elements')]), OrderedDict([(u'many', u'more > > elements')])] > > > > Definitely not what would be naively expected. > > Correction: > > print(doc3['mydocument']) > > prints > > OrderedDict([(u'@has', u'an attribute'), (u'and', > [OrderedDict([(u'many', u'elements')]), OrderedDict([(u'many', u'more > elements')])]), (u'plus', OrderedDict([(u'@a', u'complex'), ('#text', > u'element as well')]))]) > > which just trashed the ordering of an and followed by a plus followed by > an and. > This is a more serious problem particularly if the dict is required to be serialized back to xml. Thanks for pointing out these issues, I had missed them entirely :-) [1]: http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2006/05/31/converting-between-xml-and-json.html - Vineet > Dhananjay > > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene google plus: > http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Vineet Naik From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Thu Sep 26 00:21:31 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 03:51:31 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 7:09 PM, Vineet Naik wrote: > On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > >> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 6:11 PM, Dhananjay Nene >> wrote: [..] >> >> which just trashed the ordering of an and followed by a plus followed by >> an and. >> > > This is a more serious problem particularly if the dict is required to be > serialized back to xml. = = = TL;DR. Use domain rather than use cases for exploring data structures especially where they can cause a lot of change later. Semantic Consistency is important, don't treat it lightly. Impedance mismatch can be fragile. If feasible, stay away. = = = You probably did not mean this literally, but interpreting it to be so helps unravel a couple of interesting issues, since it attempts to reach a judgement based on a use case and doesn't reflect on the semantics of that data. a) Do you design a data structure based on a use case or a domain. I've often preferred to use the underlying domain representation rather than the minimalistic needed by use cases. eg. When designing tables, I would choose to not add a column unless it is necessary for the current use cases. However if the current use cases simplify a one-to-many relationship to one-to-one, and a reasonable domain assessment concludes that the relation in the wild is a one-to-many, I prefer to model it as a one-to-many. That is because over a period of time more aspects of the domain get implemented and some of these early decisions need to be revisited. Adding columns to a table is relatively less expensive than changing the cardinality of table relationships. (YAGNI proponents may choose to disagree, and thats fair - I am just stating my opinion here) Why is it relevant here ? It doesn't matter whether the dict is required to be serialized back to xml today. What matters more is whether the domain suggests that ordering is important. I would use that as deciding factor rather than what operations get done on the data in the current use cases. If order is unimportant, round tripping won't hurt, and if it does, just throw xmltodict away. b) There is yet another issue here. The thread primarily began by attempting a conversion assuming syntactic equivalence without verifying semantic compatibility. While JSON / YAML are quite compatible with each other, XML has a different set of semantics. (and I don't even refer to some of the issues as discussed at http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/XML-Semantics.html and http://www.balisage.net/Proceedings/vol6/html/Dombrowski01/BalisageVol6-Dombrowski01.html ). I refer to a simple difference. JSON / YAML have two types - a sequence and a map. The sequence is ordered, the map isn't. Each of the sequence or a map may contain other primitives or other sequences or maps. There is no SequenceMap type. A type which has a name, has a map having key value pairs, but also is a sequence of other SequenceMaps with potentially not necessarily consecutively repeating names. There simply isn't any similar pythonic structure (The way I have worded it make it sound like a structural characteristic rather than semantics, but I'll continue with that word for the moment). Why is this relevant ? When one decides on a JSON / YAML file format, one commits to one set of semantics and when one commits to a XML it is a different set of semantics. The issue is as the software keeps on growing a file that is in JSON will more likely continue to grow differently in terms of its schema than an equivalent XML file. So if you are the author of the file format just make it a JSON if you want simple pythonic structures. But if you are choosing to deal with XML because that format is not in your control, there is a good likelihood that the maintainer of that file will continue to grow it with XML semantics in mind, and even if under today's use cases you could find a way to coerce a XML to primitive python structures like JSON, that whole approach could break as you go along over the next few years of maintenance. From steve at lonetwin.net Thu Sep 26 05:28:24 2013 From: steve at lonetwin.net (steve at lonetwin.net) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:28:24 -0500 Subject: [BangPypers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <98af2c41bcbbc9c137631fa42f15966d@lonetwin.net> On 2013-09-25 17:21, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 7:09 PM, Vineet Naik > wrote: >> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Dhananjay Nene >> wrote: >> >>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 6:11 PM, Dhananjay Nene >>> wrote: > [..] >>> >>> which just trashed the ordering of an and followed by a plus >>> followed by >>> an and. >>> >> >> This is a more serious problem particularly if the dict is required >> to be >> serialized back to xml. > = = = > TL;DR. Use domain rather than use cases for exploring data structures > especially where they can cause a lot of change later. Semantic > Consistency is important, don't treat it lightly. Impedance mismatch > can be fragile. If feasible, stay away. > = = = > Nice one, Dhananjay ! Thanks for spelling out so clearly what feels instinctively like common sense at times and is just as easy (and seductive) to forget about, at others. cheers, - steve [...snip...] From naikvin at gmail.com Thu Sep 26 07:33:26 2013 From: naikvin at gmail.com (Vineet Naik) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 11:03:26 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <98af2c41bcbbc9c137631fa42f15966d@lonetwin.net> References: <98af2c41bcbbc9c137631fa42f15966d@lonetwin.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 8:58 AM, wrote: > On 2013-09-25 17:21, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > >> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 7:09 PM, Vineet Naik wrote: >> >>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Dhananjay Nene < >>> dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>**wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 6:11 PM, Dhananjay Nene >>>> wrote: >>>> >>> [..] >> >>> >>>> which just trashed the ordering of an and followed by a plus followed by >>>> an and. >>>> >>>> >>> This is a more serious problem particularly if the dict is required to be >>> serialized back to xml. >>> >> = = = >> TL;DR. Use domain rather than use cases for exploring data structures >> especially where they can cause a lot of change later. Semantic >> Consistency is important, don't treat it lightly. Impedance mismatch >> can be fragile. If feasible, stay away. >> = = = >> >> > Nice one, Dhananjay ! Thanks for spelling out so clearly what feels > instinctively like common sense at times and is just as easy (and > seductive) > to forget about, at others. > +1. Thanks for putting it so clearly. - Vineet > > > cheers, > - steve > > [...snip...] > > ______________________________**_________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Vineet Naik From awasekhirni at gmail.com Thu Sep 26 17:11:11 2013 From: awasekhirni at gmail.com (Syed Awase khirni) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 18:11:11 +0300 Subject: [BangPypers] Django with MSSQL Server 2008 Message-ID: Hello All, I am a new to Django and i am trying to do some intial bit of learning myself. I am having difficulty with SQLServer drivers with ADO and pyodbc. Can any body suggest me exactly the approach. Please find the code in my settings.py file. If you could also provide me pointers to downloading the working version of ADO and pyodbc it will be helpful. DATABASES = { 'default': { 'ENGINE': 'sql_server.pyodbc', # Have also tried sql_server.pyodbc,sqlserver_ado', 'NAME': 'tprone', 'USER': 'awase', # Omitted for post 'PASSWORD': '$lny786#', # Omitted for post 'HOST': 'localhost', 'PORT': '12345', 'OPTIONS': { # 'provider': 'SQLCLI10', # Have also tried 'SQLCLI11' and 'SQLOLEDB' 'provider': 'SQLOLEDB', 'use_mars': True, 'extra_params': 'DataTypeCompatibility=80' } } } thanks Awase From vpuri.social at gmail.com Thu Sep 26 20:47:35 2013 From: vpuri.social at gmail.com (Vivek Puri) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 00:17:35 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Django with MSSQL Server 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52448147.1060800@gmail.com> Hi, > I am a new to Django and i am trying to do some intial bit of learning > myself. I am having difficulty with SQLServer drivers with ADO and pyodbc. > Can any body suggest me exactly the approach. Please find the code in my > settings.py file. > > If you could also provide me pointers to downloading the working version of > ADO and pyodbc it will be helpful. What exact problem are you facing ? Are you able to successfully connect using pyodbc from python shell ? rgds vivek From shabda at agiliq.com Thu Sep 26 22:49:07 2013 From: shabda at agiliq.com (Shabda Raaj) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 02:19:07 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? Message-ID: I am building my first desktop app with Python and I would like to get recommendation on what toolkit to use. I am planning to use either PyGTK or PyQT. (Are there anything else I should consider.) I see a lot of outdated, unmaintained tutorials about these. I am looking for modern, opinionated tutorials/books about GUI programming for Python. -- Thanks, Shabda Agiliq.com - Building Amazing Apps agiliq.com/blog/ | github.com/agiliq US: +13152854388 | IN: +919949997612 | Skype: shabda.raaj Our Android Apps | Our iOS Apps From me at bibhas.in Thu Sep 26 22:55:07 2013 From: me at bibhas.in (Bibhas) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 02:25:07 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I used Kivy a year back. Not sure of it's state now. You could look into it once. Shabda Raaj wrote: >I am building my first desktop app with Python and I would like to get >recommendation on what toolkit to use. > >I am planning to use either PyGTK or PyQT. >(Are there anything else I should consider.) > >I see a lot of outdated, unmaintained tutorials about these. I am >looking >for modern, opinionated tutorials/books about GUI programming for >Python. > >-- >Thanks, >Shabda > >Agiliq.com - Building Amazing Apps >agiliq.com/blog/ | github.com/agiliq >US: +13152854388 | IN: +919949997612 | Skype: shabda.raaj >Our Android Apps > | Our >iOS Apps >_______________________________________________ >BangPypers mailing list >BangPypers at python.org >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers -- Thanks Bibhas http://bibhas.in Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From modi.konark at gmail.com Thu Sep 26 23:09:26 2013 From: modi.konark at gmail.com (konark modi) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 02:39:26 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Django with MSSQL Server 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have used Python + TEIDD via JDBC, and Python + Microsoft SQL Server using ODBC.. I'll share my steps with you for connecting ODBC + Python on a linux machine(CentOS 5.x, 6.x) . 1. Install FREE TDS 2. Install Unix ODBC 3. Install PyODBC 4. Configure the TDS and ODBC settings in $HOME/etc/*.conf 5. Try connecting the sample program. Pasting installation-script and sample-program on gist. Installation-script : https://gist.github.com/konarkmodi/6720521 Sample-Program : https://gist.github.com/konarkmodi/6720531 Regards Konark On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Syed Awase khirni wrote: > Hello All, > > I am a new to Django and i am trying to do some intial bit of learning > myself. I am having difficulty with SQLServer drivers with ADO and pyodbc. > Can any body suggest me exactly the approach. Please find the code in my > settings.py file. > > If you could also provide me pointers to downloading the working version of > ADO and pyodbc it will be helpful. > > DATABASES = { > 'default': { > 'ENGINE': 'sql_server.pyodbc', # Have also tried > sql_server.pyodbc,sqlserver_ado', > 'NAME': 'tprone', > 'USER': 'awase', # Omitted for post > 'PASSWORD': '$lny786#', # Omitted for post > 'HOST': 'localhost', > 'PORT': '12345', > 'OPTIONS': { > # 'provider': 'SQLCLI10', # Have also tried 'SQLCLI11' and > 'SQLOLEDB' > > 'provider': 'SQLOLEDB', > 'use_mars': True, > 'extra_params': 'DataTypeCompatibility=80' > } > } > } > > thanks > > Awase > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Fri Sep 27 05:52:52 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 09:22:52 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: (Shabda Raaj's message of "Fri, 27 Sep 2013 02:19:07 +0530") References: Message-ID: <87wqm2c44r.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Shabda Raaj writes: > I am building my first desktop app with Python and I would like to get > recommendation on what toolkit to use. > > I am planning to use either PyGTK or PyQT. > (Are there anything else I should consider.) wxpython. It uses the native widgets depending on platform. > > I see a lot of outdated, unmaintained tutorials about these. I am looking > for modern, opinionated tutorials/books about GUI programming for Python. -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From baiju.m.mail at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 06:29:21 2013 From: baiju.m.mail at gmail.com (Baiju M) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 09:59:21 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here is a good documentation for Python bindings of GTK+ 3 bindings: http://python-gtk-3-tutorial.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 2:19 AM, Shabda Raaj wrote: > I am building my first desktop app with Python and I would like to get > recommendation on what toolkit to use. > > I am planning to use either PyGTK or PyQT. > (Are there anything else I should consider.) > > I see a lot of outdated, unmaintained tutorials about these. I am looking > for modern, opinionated tutorials/books about GUI programming for Python. > > -- > Thanks, > Shabda > > Agiliq.com - Building Amazing Apps > agiliq.com/blog/ | github.com/agiliq > US: +13152854388 | IN: +919949997612 | Skype: shabda.raaj > Our Android Apps | Our > iOS Apps > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 06:25:01 2013 From: dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com (Dhruv Baldawa) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 09:55:01 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: <87wqm2c44r.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87wqm2c44r.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: Take a look at PySide? -- Sent from mobile On Sep 27, 2013 9:24 AM, "Noufal Ibrahim" wrote: > Shabda Raaj writes: > > > I am building my first desktop app with Python and I would like to get > > recommendation on what toolkit to use. > > > > I am planning to use either PyGTK or PyQT. > > (Are there anything else I should consider.) > > wxpython. It uses the native widgets depending on platform. > > > > > > I see a lot of outdated, unmaintained tutorials about these. I am looking > > for modern, opinionated tutorials/books about GUI programming for Python. > > -- > Cordially, > Noufal > http://nibrahim.net.in > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From i.amber.jain at gmail.com Thu Sep 26 23:19:49 2013 From: i.amber.jain at gmail.com (Amber Jain) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 02:49:49 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 2:25 AM, Bibhas wrote: > I used Kivy a year back. Not sure of it's state now. You could look into > it once. > > +1 for Kivy (under active development). The same code runs unmodified on Linux, OSX, Windows, Android and iOS (ofcourse, if device in question does not has for instance multi-touch support, then corresponding features won't work; or work in some kind of fallback mode). Guido himself recommended Kivy (though he recommended it specifically for developing mobile apps in Python): https://twitter.com/gvanrossum/status/342145797770604545 > Shabda Raaj wrote: > >I am building my first desktop app with Python and I would like to get > >recommendation on what toolkit to use. > > > >I am planning to use either PyGTK or PyQT. > >(Are there anything else I should consider.) > > > >I see a lot of outdated, unmaintained tutorials about these. I am > >looking > >for modern, opinionated tutorials/books about GUI programming for > >Python. > -- Amber Jain i.amber.jain at gmail.com http://amberj.devio.us/ From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 09:44:28 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 13:14:28 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 2:49 AM, Amber Jain wrote: > On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 2:25 AM, Bibhas wrote: > >> I used Kivy a year back. Not sure of it's state now. You could look into >> it once. >> >> > +1 for Kivy (under active development). The same code runs unmodified on > Linux, OSX, Windows, Android and iOS (ofcourse, if device in question does > not has for instance multi-touch support, then corresponding features won't > work; or work in some kind of fallback mode). > > Guido himself recommended Kivy (though he recommended it specifically for > developing mobile apps in Python): > https://twitter.com/gvanrossum/status/342145797770604545 Is kivy comparably good enough for desktop based development as desktop focused toolkits are? > > >> Shabda Raaj wrote: >> >I am building my first desktop app with Python and I would like to get >> >recommendation on what toolkit to use. >> > >> >I am planning to use either PyGTK or PyQT. >> >(Are there anything else I should consider.) >> > >> >I see a lot of outdated, unmaintained tutorials about these. I am >> >looking >> >for modern, opinionated tutorials/books about GUI programming for >> >Python. >> > > -- > Amber Jain > i.amber.jain at gmail.com > http://amberj.devio.us/ > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From vinayakh at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 09:51:46 2013 From: vinayakh at gmail.com (Vinayak Hegde) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 13:21:46 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > > +1 for Kivy (under active development). The same code runs unmodified on > > Linux, OSX, Windows, Android and iOS (ofcourse, if device in question > does > > not has for instance multi-touch support, then corresponding features > won't > > work; or work in some kind of fallback mode). > > > > Guido himself recommended Kivy (though he recommended it specifically for > > developing mobile apps in Python): > > https://twitter.com/gvanrossum/status/342145797770604545 > > Is kivy comparably good enough for desktop based development as > desktop focused toolkits are? > Adding to that, are there any thoughts from people who have used kivy apps across OSes and devices ? Especially on interaction and look and feel as these are traditionally hard to get right across platforms. -- Vinayak From me at bibhas.in Fri Sep 27 10:15:02 2013 From: me at bibhas.in (Bibhas) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 13:45:02 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <227d3392-f70d-4080-bf4f-463ad5c412d9@email.android.com> Kivy is good for multiplatform. But at that time we had to ditch it because it requires OpenGL >= 2.0. That means computers with older graphics driver would have suffered. And we didn't have any way to solve that. The look and feel is kind of like AOSP ICS of Android. Looks different from the other options. Vinayak Hegde wrote: >On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Dhananjay Nene >wrote: > >> > +1 for Kivy (under active development). The same code runs >unmodified on >> > Linux, OSX, Windows, Android and iOS (ofcourse, if device in >question >> does >> > not has for instance multi-touch support, then corresponding >features >> won't >> > work; or work in some kind of fallback mode). >> > >> > Guido himself recommended Kivy (though he recommended it >specifically for >> > developing mobile apps in Python): >> > https://twitter.com/gvanrossum/status/342145797770604545 >> >> Is kivy comparably good enough for desktop based development as >> desktop focused toolkits are? >> > >Adding to that, are there any thoughts from people who have used kivy >apps >across OSes and devices ? Especially on interaction and look and feel >as >these are traditionally hard to get right across platforms. > >-- Vinayak >_______________________________________________ >BangPypers mailing list >BangPypers at python.org >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers -- Thanks Bibhas http://bibhas.in Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From me at bibhas.in Fri Sep 27 10:25:16 2013 From: me at bibhas.in (BibhasD) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 13:55:16 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <524540EC.9010406@bibhas.in> Here is a reddit conversation[1] that might give some feedback. I haven't used other UI frameworks, so can't say anything specifically. Some other threads like this[2] should make you try it atleast once. [1]: http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/1c08rl/kivy_for_desktop_apps/ [2]: http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/14287d/sick_at_home_today_so_decided_to_try_out_kivy/ On Friday 27 September 2013 01:14 PM, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 2:49 AM, Amber Jain wrote: >> On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 2:25 AM, Bibhas wrote: >> >>> I used Kivy a year back. Not sure of it's state now. You could look into >>> it once. >>> >>> >> +1 for Kivy (under active development). The same code runs unmodified on >> Linux, OSX, Windows, Android and iOS (ofcourse, if device in question does >> not has for instance multi-touch support, then corresponding features won't >> work; or work in some kind of fallback mode). >> >> Guido himself recommended Kivy (though he recommended it specifically for >> developing mobile apps in Python): >> https://twitter.com/gvanrossum/status/342145797770604545 > Is kivy comparably good enough for desktop based development as > desktop focused toolkits are? >> >>> Shabda Raaj wrote: >>>> I am building my first desktop app with Python and I would like to get >>>> recommendation on what toolkit to use. >>>> >>>> I am planning to use either PyGTK or PyQT. >>>> (Are there anything else I should consider.) >>>> >>>> I see a lot of outdated, unmaintained tutorials about these. I am >>>> looking >>>> for modern, opinionated tutorials/books about GUI programming for >>>> Python. >> -- >> Amber Jain >> i.amber.jain at gmail.com >> http://amberj.devio.us/ >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From karra.etc at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 15:22:24 2013 From: karra.etc at gmail.com (Sriram Karra) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 18:52:24 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 2:19 AM, Shabda Raaj wrote: > I am building my first desktop app with Python and I would like to get > recommendation on what toolkit to use. > > I am planning to use either PyGTK or PyQT. > (Are there anything else I should consider.) > I always write them as webapps - and ship them with embedded tornado web server. You can strip it down to bare minimum, or choose lighter weight 'frameworks' if you wish. There are plenty of advantages to this general approach: a) your app will look the same across all your platforms (at least the best it can be) as the front end is html/css/js b) you don't have to learn a new widget library c) your are building reusable code and skills that you can carry across even programming languages. If you use mustache templates, for e.g., you can even reuse the templates wholesale in other projects written in ruby, for e.g. From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 15:36:24 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 19:06:24 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 6:52 PM, Sriram Karra wrote: > On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 2:19 AM, Shabda Raaj wrote: > >> I am building my first desktop app with Python and I would like to get >> recommendation on what toolkit to use. >> >> I am planning to use either PyGTK or PyQT. >> (Are there anything else I should consider.) >> > > I always write them as webapps - and ship them with embedded tornado web > server. You can strip it down to bare minimum, or choose lighter weight > 'frameworks' if you wish. There are plenty of advantages to this general > approach: a) What are sample installers one could use to install web based apps on user's machine (users more often than not use simple wizards to install apps) b) Do you start up app by default ? If so can the installer integrate into the native service system to start / stop the webapp ? c) If you do not start app by default, how easy is it for users to start and stop the webapp. d) Do you offer any integration in the system tray to shut down the app if the user is in a memory hungry situation and would prefer to shutdown your app to conserve memory e) Do you undergo security audits ? If so, what issues come up in the discussions that wouldn't have come up in pure desktop apps ? > a) your app will look the same across all your platforms (at least the best > it can be) as the front end is html/css/js > > b) you don't have to learn a new widget library > > c) your are building reusable code and skills that you can carry across > even programming languages. If you use mustache templates, for e.g., you > can even reuse the templates wholesale in other projects written in ruby, > for e.g. From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Fri Sep 27 15:45:54 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 19:15:54 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: (Sriram Karra's message of "Fri, 27 Sep 2013 18:52:24 +0530") References: Message-ID: <87k3i29y3x.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Sriram Karra writes: [...] > I always write them as webapps - and ship them with embedded tornado web > server. You can strip it down to bare minimum, or choose lighter weight > 'frameworks' if you wish. There are plenty of advantages to this general > approach: I personally dislike "applications" that start a local web server. I look for "non web" apps for most things because they're responsive, integrate better with the desktop and have generally better UX considerations than web apps. I'd use web if I wanted to make it available for the general public. Never for local apps. > a) your app will look the same across all your platforms (at least the > best it can be) as the front end is html/css/js I think you'll get the common denominator. > c) your are building reusable code and skills that you can carry > across even programming languages. If you use mustache templates, for > e.g., you can even reuse the templates wholesale in other projects > written in ruby, Yes but writing desktop apps is different from writing web apps. You can do things with the former that are still not possible with the latter. Why do this just to avoid learning something new? [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From karra.etc at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 15:51:08 2013 From: karra.etc at gmail.com (Sriram Karra) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 19:21:08 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 7:06 PM, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > > a) What are sample installers one could use to install web based apps > on user's machine (users more often than not use simple wizards to > install apps) > It is a standard python application with a web server included - the server and client are on the same machine, that is all. So there are no special requirements, per se. b) Do you start up app by default ? If so can the installer integrate > into the native service system to start / stop the webapp? > I have not done this. The invocation is explicitly on demand. It is trivial to protect against multiple invocations of the program, and to support a 'Exit Program' action on the front end that will shut down the web server. > c) If you do not start app by default, how easy is it for users to > start and stop the webapp. > It is as easy as any other program. To give you an example, take a look at a sample: https://github.com/skarra/PRS Here I require that the user have python installed. The main python driver is called prs.pyw (for Windows) - the user has to double click on that file. For use on other systems I have a symlink the py file to the pyw. > d) Do you offer any integration in the system tray to shut down the > app if the user is in a memory hungry situation and would prefer to > shutdown your app to conserve memory > I have not tried this. But I am sure the answer to such question lies in platform specific libraries. For e.g. on Windows Pywin32 can do wonders. But again, these issues have to be solved regardless of what widget library you use, or you go the tornado route. > e) Do you undergo security audits ? If so, what issues come up in the > discussions that wouldn't have come up in pure desktop apps ? > I do not do this stuff commercially. So have not had to deal with this. But *again* - no one needs to even bother that this is a 'webapp' - the entire thing runs on your desktop and will work even without an internet connection. From karra.etc at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 15:57:32 2013 From: karra.etc at gmail.com (Sriram Karra) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 19:27:32 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: <87k3i29y3x.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87k3i29y3x.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 7:15 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > > > a) your app will look the same across all your platforms (at least the > > best it can be) as the front end is html/css/js > > I think you'll get the common denominator. > Isn't that the case with any cross-platform toolkit - if the intent is to be cross platform? > > c) your are building reusable code and skills that you can carry > > across even programming languages. If you use mustache templates, for > > e.g., you can even reuse the templates wholesale in other projects > > written in ruby, > > Yes but writing desktop apps is different from writing web apps. You can > do things with the former that are still not possible with the > latter. Can you give some specific examples of what is possible in a Python app using a cross platform GUI toolkit and NOT possible with a webapp architecture when the web server and the browser are running on the same machine? From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Fri Sep 27 16:05:10 2013 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 19:35:10 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: (Sriram Karra's message of "Fri, 27 Sep 2013 19:27:32 +0530") References: <87k3i29y3x.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <87a9iy9x7t.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Sriram Karra writes: [...] > Isn't that the case with any cross-platform toolkit - if the intent is > to be cross platform? Yes but going inside the browser is more of a sacrifice than other approaches. I mean, just launching the app will start a web server and then a browser and take you inside there to do a task that should be done locally. You don't get any of the native widgets (which you would if you something like wx) and none of the behaviour you've configured for local GUI apps. I guess YMMV but if a local app launches a web server and a browser to get things done, it's a deal breaker for me. [...] > Can you give some specific examples of what is possible in a Python > app using a cross platform GUI toolkit and NOT possible with a webapp > architecture when the web server and the browser are running on the > same machine? Hmmm. That's a good point. You're planning to use the HTML+CSS+JS purely for presentation (instead of a gui toolkit). I suppose most things can be done although perhaps using a combination of HTML/CSS/JS for UI and then sending messages to the backend and doing the work there. This sounds convoluted to me and I think it's overkill for a web app. As for things not possible with a web app that work fine with a GUI, I can think of games and other resource demanding applications but those are not particularly cross platform anyway so you're right. -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 16:16:13 2013 From: dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com (Dhruv Baldawa) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 19:46:13 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: <87a9iy9x7t.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87k3i29y3x.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87a9iy9x7t.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: Speaking of embedded web apps, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_Embedded_Framework https://code.google.com/p/chromiumembedded/ -- Dhruv Baldawa (http://www.dhruvb.com) On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Sriram Karra writes: > > > [...] > > > Isn't that the case with any cross-platform toolkit - if the intent is > > to be cross platform? > > Yes but going inside the browser is more of a sacrifice than other > approaches. I mean, just launching the app will start a web server and > then a browser and take you inside there to do a task that should be > done locally. You don't get any of the native widgets (which you would > if you something like wx) and none of the behaviour you've configured > for local GUI apps. > > I guess YMMV but if a local app launches a web server and a browser to > get things done, it's a deal breaker for me. > > [...] > > > Can you give some specific examples of what is possible in a Python > > app using a cross platform GUI toolkit and NOT possible with a webapp > > architecture when the web server and the browser are running on the > > same machine? > > Hmmm. That's a good point. You're planning to use the HTML+CSS+JS purely > for presentation (instead of a gui toolkit). I suppose most things can > be done although perhaps using a combination of HTML/CSS/JS for UI and > then sending messages to the backend and doing the work there. This > sounds convoluted to me and I think it's overkill for a web app. > > As for things not possible with a web app that work fine with a GUI, I > can think of games and other resource demanding applications but those > are not particularly cross platform anyway so you're right. > > -- > Cordially, > Noufal > http://nibrahim.net.in > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 17:25:59 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 20:55:59 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 7:21 PM, Sriram Karra wrote: > On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 7:06 PM, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > >> Overall background: I write desktop apps but not in python, I do write the backends in python. So my desktop awareness is more generic. I did try wxPython years ago but never took it to reasonable stage and not to production either. >> a) What are sample installers one could use to install web based apps >> on user's machine (users more often than not use simple wizards to >> install apps) >> > > It is a standard python application with a web server included - the server > and client are on the same machine, that is all. So there are no special > requirements, per se. In most cases I find users want a installer. Basically just point and click. So if there is no installer where a user selects a install directory and presses a button called install (and perhaps a couple of app specific items), there's a huge support cost due to users being not able to install apps successfully. I presume what you mean by a standard python application, but if it means a user having to install python if not installed, create a virtualenv, run pip install, create desktop shortcuts to start / stop servers, in most cases it is very very unlikely to work with lay end users. (Much of this applies to desktop based apps as well). > > b) Do you start up app by default ? If so can the installer integrate >> into the native service system to start / stop the webapp? >> > > I have not done this. The invocation is explicitly on demand. It is trivial > to protect against multiple invocations of the program, and to support a > 'Exit Program' action on the front end that will shut down the web server. Ok. I've never tried this. Perhaps it is trivial. But shutting down a server even as the controller is processing a request may "potentially" be hard. Perhaps one could set a timeout to allow the request to complete and then trigger a shutdown. > > >> c) If you do not start app by default, how easy is it for users to >> start and stop the webapp. >> > > It is as easy as any other program. To give you an example, take a look at > a sample: https://github.com/skarra/PRS Ok, I am not particularly familiar with how the windows integration works so am not able to quickly figure it out. > > Here I require that the user have python installed. The main python driver > is called prs.pyw (for Windows) - the user has to double click on that > file. For use on other systems I have a symlink the py file to the pyw. The difficulty is that the user may have multiple versions of python installed and/or his default version may not be compatible with the one you want. Plus virtualenv specific for your app will need to be configured. > > >> d) Do you offer any integration in the system tray to shut down the >> app if the user is in a memory hungry situation and would prefer to >> shutdown your app to conserve memory >> > > I have not tried this. But I am sure the answer to such question lies in > platform specific libraries. For e.g. on Windows Pywin32 can do wonders. > But again, these issues have to be solved regardless of what widget library > you use, or you go the tornado route. You did mention reusable code. Service integration, system tray integration etc. are all cross platform issues that are introduced when you install a web app on a desktop (desktop apps usually do not have these issues since they exit when user presses exit, and usually always keep an application window open for the user to find the exit button from. So there's still a few skills you need to pick up and in this case they are platform specific (at least I am not aware of platform neutral solutions) You also open yourself up to cross browser portability issues. Also having to deal with older vs newer browsers (IE6??). Which if you were using a standard widget library wouldn't have worried you. > > >> e) Do you undergo security audits ? If so, what issues come up in the >> discussions that wouldn't have come up in pure desktop apps ? >> > > I do not do this stuff commercially. So have not had to deal with this. But > *again* - no one needs to even bother that this is a 'webapp' - the entire > thing runs on your desktop and will work even without an internet > connection. At the minimum you have an open port. You probably need to restrict traffic only from localhost. In addition you need to worry about SQL injection, XSS, XSRF, and a bunch of other alphabet soup combinations. Desktop apps don't need to worry about many of these (though they can fall prey to some of these as well, its much harder to write an insecure desktop app than an insecure webapp). I don't mean to suggest it is wrong or inappropriate to use webapps as desktop apps. But just wanted to point out there are a whole bunch of counter issues as well that need to be dealt with. Dhananjay From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 17:34:50 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 21:04:50 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: <87a9iy9x7t.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87k3i29y3x.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87a9iy9x7t.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Sriram Karra writes: > > > [...] > >> Isn't that the case with any cross-platform toolkit - if the intent is >> to be cross platform? > > Yes but going inside the browser is more of a sacrifice than other > approaches. I mean, just launching the app will start a web server and > then a browser and take you inside there to do a task that should be > done locally. You don't get any of the native widgets (which you would > if you something like wx) and none of the behaviour you've configured > for local GUI apps. > > I guess YMMV but if a local app launches a web server and a browser to > get things done, it's a deal breaker for me. > > [...] > >> Can you give some specific examples of what is possible in a Python >> app using a cross platform GUI toolkit and NOT possible with a webapp >> architecture when the web server and the browser are running on the >> same machine? Event loops and asynchronous updates on the UI are much easier to handle within a desktop app than writing JS+AJAX imo. Also Rich UIs where you have lots of panels and components and based on data entered in one you want to enable / disable or modify other panels is much easier handled in desktop UIs since they have a easier event propagation and listener models. The same can be done in Javascript, but can get a lot more painful. On both the points, YMMV > Hmmm. That's a good point. You're planning to use the HTML+CSS+JS purely > for presentation (instead of a gui toolkit). I suppose most things can > be done although perhaps using a combination of HTML/CSS/JS for UI and > then sending messages to the backend and doing the work there. This > sounds convoluted to me and I think it's overkill for a web app. > > As for things not possible with a web app that work fine with a GUI, I > can think of games and other resource demanding applications but those > are not particularly cross platform anyway so you're right. > From karra.etc at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 18:34:14 2013 From: karra.etc at gmail.com (Sriram Karra) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 22:04:14 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > > In most cases I find users want a installer. Basically just point and > click. So if there is no installer where a user selects a install > directory and presses a button called install (and perhaps a couple of > app specific items), there's a huge support cost due to users being > not able to install apps successfully. I presume what you mean by a > standard python application, but if it means a user having to install > python if not installed, create a virtualenv, run pip install, create > desktop shortcuts to start / stop servers, in most cases it is very > very unlikely to work with lay end users. (Much of this applies to > desktop based apps as well). > None of that pip/virtualenv stuff is required. There are tools available that can convert a python application into a native executable - py2exe for windows, and py2app mac, for. e.g. Once you have the native, self contained executables, they can be wrapped into a msi or dmg package like any other native application. When I said the embedded webapp is like any other python application I wanted to say that the above packaging options area available for a webapp as well - because all the code is pure python and is completely self contained. I hope that was clear. > > > I have not done this. The invocation is explicitly on demand. It is > trivial > > to protect against multiple invocations of the program, and to support a > > 'Exit Program' action on the front end that will shut down the web > server. > > Ok. I've never tried this. Perhaps it is trivial. But shutting down a > server even as the controller is processing a request may > "potentially" be hard. Perhaps one could set a timeout to allow the > request to complete and then trigger a shutdown. > You should definitely fire up the PRS program below, and look at how the shutdown action is triggered and handled in the controller. My guess is you will find it very straightforward. > > > > It is as easy as any other program. To give you an example, take a look > at > > a sample: https://github.com/skarra/PRS > > Ok, I am not particularly familiar with how the windows integration > works so am not able to quickly figure it out. > There is no windows integration of any sort here. If you are using python on Windows already, just clone that repo and double click on the file called prs.pyw -> that is all you need to start the program. > The difficulty is that the user may have multiple versions of python > installed and/or his default version may not be compatible with the > one you want. Plus virtualenv specific for your app will need to be > configured. > As explained above, the py2exe / py2app type programs are able to make completely self contained native executables. > > You did mention reusable code. Service integration, system tray > integration etc. are all cross platform issues that are introduced > when you install a web app on a desktop I do not know if there are any cross-platform python libraries that take care of issues such as this. I will only say that the webapp approach to cross-platform UI programming does not put you at any greater disadvantage than using a UI toolkit. Remember the original topic was discussion on UI toolkits! You also open yourself up to cross browser portability issues. Also > having to deal with older vs newer browsers (IE6??). Which if you were > using a standard widget library wouldn't have worried you. > That is definitely very true. But in this day and age of html5 boilerplate, twitter bootstrap, jquery, etc. this particular problem can be considered well under control. > > At the minimum you have an open port. You probably need to restrict > traffic only from localhost. Yes, and this is done very easily, I am sure agree. > In addition you need to worry about SQL > injection, XSS, XSRF, and a bunch of other alphabet soup combinations. > I would image these are all non-issues if you reject all connections not from localhost as discussed above? I don't mean to suggest it is wrong or inappropriate to use webapps as > desktop apps. But just wanted to point out there are a whole bunch of > counter issues as well that need to be dealt with. > Absolutely. It is definitely constructive and instructive to think about all angles - even if just to understand the limits of a given approach. Thank you for this conversation. From karra.etc at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 18:40:14 2013 From: karra.etc at gmail.com (Sriram Karra) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 22:10:14 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: <87a9iy9x7t.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87k3i29y3x.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <87a9iy9x7t.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > > I guess YMMV but if a local app launches a web server and a browser to > get things done, it's a deal breaker for me. > In this case starting a web server can be nothing more than executing a few hundreds of lines of python code that just happens to talk http and wsgi. It is more of a mental block than anything! I know because I had to fight it too :) The user does not need to know or care. Interacting with a browser tab is likely to be a bit more of a hurdle, particularly if the user opens your app twice and ends up with two browser tabs with your app, etc. It is certainly a possibility that some users will feel a bit disoriented. From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 18:50:26 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 22:20:26 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:04 PM, Sriram Karra wrote: > On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > > >> >> In most cases I find users want a installer. Basically just point and >> click. So if there is no installer where a user selects a install >> directory and presses a button called install (and perhaps a couple of >> app specific items), there's a huge support cost due to users being >> not able to install apps successfully. I presume what you mean by a >> standard python application, but if it means a user having to install >> python if not installed, create a virtualenv, run pip install, create >> desktop shortcuts to start / stop servers, in most cases it is very >> very unlikely to work with lay end users. (Much of this applies to >> desktop based apps as well). >> > > > None of that pip/virtualenv stuff is required. There are tools available > that can convert a python application into a native executable - py2exe for > windows, and py2app mac, for. e.g. Once you have the native, self contained > executables, they can be wrapped into a msi or dmg package like any other > native application. > Ok. I haven't tried them myself ever :( Though usually there's more required during installation (eg. where does the program get installed what directory should data go to etc. Not sure if these get addressed by these. Perhaps there are standard python ways to deal with all such issues that I am unaware of. > When I said the embedded webapp is like any other python application I > wanted to say that the above packaging options area available for a webapp > as well - because all the code is pure python and is completely self > contained. I hope that was clear. > It wasn't to me, but that could be my shortcoming. > >> >> > I have not done this. The invocation is explicitly on demand. It is >> trivial >> > to protect against multiple invocations of the program, and to support a >> > 'Exit Program' action on the front end that will shut down the web >> server. >> >> Ok. I've never tried this. Perhaps it is trivial. But shutting down a >> server even as the controller is processing a request may >> "potentially" be hard. Perhaps one could set a timeout to allow the >> request to complete and then trigger a shutdown. >> > > > You should definitely fire up the PRS program below, and look at how the > shutdown action is triggered and handled in the controller. My guess is you > will find it very straightforward. > Ok. > > >> > >> > It is as easy as any other program. To give you an example, take a look >> at >> > a sample: https://github.com/skarra/PRS >> >> Ok, I am not particularly familiar with how the windows integration >> works so am not able to quickly figure it out. >> > > > There is no windows integration of any sort here. If you are using python > on Windows already, just clone that repo and double click on the file > called prs.pyw -> that is all you need to start the program. > Haven't used windows in ages :( > > >> The difficulty is that the user may have multiple versions of python >> installed and/or his default version may not be compatible with the >> one you want. Plus virtualenv specific for your app will need to be >> configured. >> > > > As explained above, the py2exe / py2app type programs are able to make > completely self contained native executables. > > >> >> You did mention reusable code. Service integration, system tray >> integration etc. are all cross platform issues that are introduced >> when you install a web app on a desktop > > > > I do not know if there are any cross-platform python libraries that take > care of issues such as this. I will only say that the webapp approach to > cross-platform UI programming does not put you at any greater disadvantage > than using a UI toolkit. Remember the original topic was discussion on UI > toolkits! > My point was that service and system tray integration are usually not required for desktop apps. But if your webapp is going to be explicitly started and stopped by user, it may not be required by such webapps as well. > > You also open yourself up to cross browser portability issues. Also >> having to deal with older vs newer browsers (IE6??). Which if you were >> using a standard widget library wouldn't have worried you. >> > > > That is definitely very true. But in this day and age of html5 boilerplate, > twitter bootstrap, jquery, etc. this particular problem can be considered > well under control. > > >> >> At the minimum you have an open port. You probably need to restrict >> traffic only from localhost. > > > > Yes, and this is done very easily, I am sure agree. Yes. > > >> In addition you need to worry about SQL >> injection, XSS, XSRF, and a bunch of other alphabet soup combinations. >> > > > I would image these are all non-issues if you reject all connections not > from localhost as discussed above? I am afraid not. > > > I don't mean to suggest it is wrong or inappropriate to use webapps as >> desktop apps. But just wanted to point out there are a whole bunch of >> counter issues as well that need to be dealt with. >> > > > Absolutely. It is definitely constructive and instructive to think about > all angles - even if just to understand the limits of a given approach. > Thank you for this conversation. The pleasure's mutual. I learnt a few things along the way. Dhananjay From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 20:34:40 2013 From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 00:04:40 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have spent 10+ years of Desktop app development using VC++/.NET, mostly on Windows. After Windows XP SP 3 onwards, Microsoft changed the application installation and execution architecture, specifically the socket servers, firewall, administrator rights etc. We have WCF Web Service (part of MS .NET framework), which was running on TCP/IP, we have so much of trouble when users install application on their machines. Basic issues are listed here, which are difficult for common users to deal. 1. Anti-virus apps block the socket/outgoing emails/application altogether 2. Firewall blocks the binding to port, incoming/outgoing connections. 3. End user shall not have admin rights to install/run the server applications that especially binds to socket server. 4. Socket port number could have been bind by other process, so we get port bind exceptions. None of above are not part of our application, but affected by external world. Situation is completely based on what user had before, what is there right now, what he/she might have later. On Windows, we use WCF Named Pipe binding now. No more socket related issues. During installation, we install our server as Windows Service with admin rights which uses named pipe (using GUID + some strong identity options for naming pipe). -- Krish On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:20 PM, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:04 PM, Sriram Karra > wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Dhananjay Nene < > dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>wrote: > > > > > >> > >> In most cases I find users want a installer. Basically just point and > >> click. So if there is no installer where a user selects a install > >> directory and presses a button called install (and perhaps a couple of > >> app specific items), there's a huge support cost due to users being > >> not able to install apps successfully. I presume what you mean by a > >> standard python application, but if it means a user having to install > >> python if not installed, create a virtualenv, run pip install, create > >> desktop shortcuts to start / stop servers, in most cases it is very > >> very unlikely to work with lay end users. (Much of this applies to > >> desktop based apps as well). > >> > > > > > > None of that pip/virtualenv stuff is required. There are tools available > > that can convert a python application into a native executable - py2exe > for > > windows, and py2app mac, for. e.g. Once you have the native, self > contained > > executables, they can be wrapped into a msi or dmg package like any other > > native application. > > > Ok. I haven't tried them myself ever :( Though usually there's more > required during installation (eg. where does the program get installed > what directory should data go to etc. Not sure if these get addressed > by these. Perhaps there are standard python ways to deal with all such > issues that I am unaware of. > > > When I said the embedded webapp is like any other python application I > > wanted to say that the above packaging options area available for a > webapp > > as well - because all the code is pure python and is completely self > > contained. I hope that was clear. > > > It wasn't to me, but that could be my shortcoming. > > > >> > >> > I have not done this. The invocation is explicitly on demand. It is > >> trivial > >> > to protect against multiple invocations of the program, and to > support a > >> > 'Exit Program' action on the front end that will shut down the web > >> server. > >> > >> Ok. I've never tried this. Perhaps it is trivial. But shutting down a > >> server even as the controller is processing a request may > >> "potentially" be hard. Perhaps one could set a timeout to allow the > >> request to complete and then trigger a shutdown. > >> > > > > > > You should definitely fire up the PRS program below, and look at how the > > shutdown action is triggered and handled in the controller. My guess is > you > > will find it very straightforward. > > > Ok. > > > > > >> > > >> > It is as easy as any other program. To give you an example, take a > look > >> at > >> > a sample: https://github.com/skarra/PRS > >> > >> Ok, I am not particularly familiar with how the windows integration > >> works so am not able to quickly figure it out. > >> > > > > > > There is no windows integration of any sort here. If you are using python > > on Windows already, just clone that repo and double click on the file > > called prs.pyw -> that is all you need to start the program. > > > Haven't used windows in ages :( > > > > > >> The difficulty is that the user may have multiple versions of python > >> installed and/or his default version may not be compatible with the > >> one you want. Plus virtualenv specific for your app will need to be > >> configured. > >> > > > > > > As explained above, the py2exe / py2app type programs are able to make > > completely self contained native executables. > > > > > >> > >> You did mention reusable code. Service integration, system tray > >> integration etc. are all cross platform issues that are introduced > >> when you install a web app on a desktop > > > > > > > > I do not know if there are any cross-platform python libraries that take > > care of issues such as this. I will only say that the webapp approach to > > cross-platform UI programming does not put you at any greater > disadvantage > > than using a UI toolkit. Remember the original topic was discussion on UI > > toolkits! > > > My point was that service and system tray integration are usually not > required for desktop apps. But if your webapp is going to be > explicitly started and stopped by user, it may not be required by such > webapps as well. > > > > You also open yourself up to cross browser portability issues. Also > >> having to deal with older vs newer browsers (IE6??). Which if you were > >> using a standard widget library wouldn't have worried you. > >> > > > > > > That is definitely very true. But in this day and age of html5 > boilerplate, > > twitter bootstrap, jquery, etc. this particular problem can be considered > > well under control. > > > > > >> > >> At the minimum you have an open port. You probably need to restrict > >> traffic only from localhost. > > > > > > > > Yes, and this is done very easily, I am sure agree. > Yes. > > > > > >> In addition you need to worry about SQL > >> injection, XSS, XSRF, and a bunch of other alphabet soup combinations. > >> > > > > > > I would image these are all non-issues if you reject all connections not > > from localhost as discussed above? > I am afraid not. > > > > > > I don't mean to suggest it is wrong or inappropriate to use webapps as > >> desktop apps. But just wanted to point out there are a whole bunch of > >> counter issues as well that need to be dealt with. > >> > > > > > > Absolutely. It is definitely constructive and instructive to think about > > all angles - even if just to understand the limits of a given approach. > > Thank you for this conversation. > The pleasure's mutual. I learnt a few things along the way. > > Dhananjay > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From me at bibhas.in Fri Sep 27 20:46:10 2013 From: me at bibhas.in (BibhasD) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 00:16:10 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5245D272.1020900@bibhas.in> Maybe that's another way of looking at it. It's introducing network related issues when we should be concentrating on building the app that has nothing to do with network, right? > That is definitely very true. But in this day and age of html5 boilerplate, > twitter bootstrap, jquery, etc. this particular problem can be considered > well under control. IMO, you can never trust the user system too much. It is a possible case that the user system doesn't have a browser installed, right? What'd happen then? Any fallback mechanism? On Saturday 28 September 2013 12:04:40 AM IST, Gopalakrishnan Subramani wrote: > I have spent 10+ years of Desktop app development using VC++/.NET, mostly > on Windows. After Windows XP SP 3 onwards, Microsoft changed the > application installation and execution architecture, specifically the > socket servers, firewall, administrator rights etc. > > We have WCF Web Service (part of MS .NET framework), which was running on > TCP/IP, we have so much of trouble when users install application on their > machines. > > Basic issues are listed here, which are difficult for common users to deal. > > 1. Anti-virus apps block the socket/outgoing emails/application altogether > 2. Firewall blocks the binding to port, incoming/outgoing connections. > 3. End user shall not have admin rights to install/run the server > applications that especially binds to socket server. > 4. Socket port number could have been bind by other process, so we get > port bind exceptions. > > None of above are not part of our application, but affected by external > world. Situation is completely based on what user had before, what is there > right now, what he/she might have later. > > On Windows, we use WCF Named Pipe binding now. No more socket related > issues. During installation, we install our server as Windows Service with > admin rights which uses named pipe (using GUID + some strong identity > options for naming pipe). > > -- > > Krish > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:20 PM, Dhananjay Nene > wrote: > >> On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:04 PM, Sriram Karra >> wrote: >>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Dhananjay Nene < >> dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>> >>>> >>>> In most cases I find users want a installer. Basically just point and >>>> click. So if there is no installer where a user selects a install >>>> directory and presses a button called install (and perhaps a couple of >>>> app specific items), there's a huge support cost due to users being >>>> not able to install apps successfully. I presume what you mean by a >>>> standard python application, but if it means a user having to install >>>> python if not installed, create a virtualenv, run pip install, create >>>> desktop shortcuts to start / stop servers, in most cases it is very >>>> very unlikely to work with lay end users. (Much of this applies to >>>> desktop based apps as well). >>>> >>> >>> >>> None of that pip/virtualenv stuff is required. There are tools available >>> that can convert a python application into a native executable - py2exe >> for >>> windows, and py2app mac, for. e.g. Once you have the native, self >> contained >>> executables, they can be wrapped into a msi or dmg package like any other >>> native application. >>> >> Ok. I haven't tried them myself ever :( Though usually there's more >> required during installation (eg. where does the program get installed >> what directory should data go to etc. Not sure if these get addressed >> by these. Perhaps there are standard python ways to deal with all such >> issues that I am unaware of. >> >>> When I said the embedded webapp is like any other python application I >>> wanted to say that the above packaging options area available for a >> webapp >>> as well - because all the code is pure python and is completely self >>> contained. I hope that was clear. >>> >> It wasn't to me, but that could be my shortcoming. >>> >>>> >>>>> I have not done this. The invocation is explicitly on demand. It is >>>> trivial >>>>> to protect against multiple invocations of the program, and to >> support a >>>>> 'Exit Program' action on the front end that will shut down the web >>>> server. >>>> >>>> Ok. I've never tried this. Perhaps it is trivial. But shutting down a >>>> server even as the controller is processing a request may >>>> "potentially" be hard. Perhaps one could set a timeout to allow the >>>> request to complete and then trigger a shutdown. >>>> >>> >>> >>> You should definitely fire up the PRS program below, and look at how the >>> shutdown action is triggered and handled in the controller. My guess is >> you >>> will find it very straightforward. >>> >> Ok. >>> >>> >>>>> >>>>> It is as easy as any other program. To give you an example, take a >> look >>>> at >>>>> a sample: https://github.com/skarra/PRS >>>> >>>> Ok, I am not particularly familiar with how the windows integration >>>> works so am not able to quickly figure it out. >>>> >>> >>> >>> There is no windows integration of any sort here. If you are using python >>> on Windows already, just clone that repo and double click on the file >>> called prs.pyw -> that is all you need to start the program. >>> >> Haven't used windows in ages :( >>> >>> >>>> The difficulty is that the user may have multiple versions of python >>>> installed and/or his default version may not be compatible with the >>>> one you want. Plus virtualenv specific for your app will need to be >>>> configured. >>>> >>> >>> >>> As explained above, the py2exe / py2app type programs are able to make >>> completely self contained native executables. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> You did mention reusable code. Service integration, system tray >>>> integration etc. are all cross platform issues that are introduced >>>> when you install a web app on a desktop >>> >>> >>> >>> I do not know if there are any cross-platform python libraries that take >>> care of issues such as this. I will only say that the webapp approach to >>> cross-platform UI programming does not put you at any greater >> disadvantage >>> than using a UI toolkit. Remember the original topic was discussion on UI >>> toolkits! >>> >> My point was that service and system tray integration are usually not >> required for desktop apps. But if your webapp is going to be >> explicitly started and stopped by user, it may not be required by such >> webapps as well. >>> >>> You also open yourself up to cross browser portability issues. Also >>>> having to deal with older vs newer browsers (IE6??). Which if you were >>>> using a standard widget library wouldn't have worried you. >>>> >>> >>> >>> That is definitely very true. But in this day and age of html5 >> boilerplate, >>> twitter bootstrap, jquery, etc. this particular problem can be considered >>> well under control. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> At the minimum you have an open port. You probably need to restrict >>>> traffic only from localhost. >>> >>> >>> >>> Yes, and this is done very easily, I am sure agree. >> Yes. >>> >>> >>>> In addition you need to worry about SQL >>>> injection, XSS, XSRF, and a bunch of other alphabet soup combinations. >>>> >>> >>> >>> I would image these are all non-issues if you reject all connections not >>> from localhost as discussed above? >> I am afraid not. >>> >>> >>> I don't mean to suggest it is wrong or inappropriate to use webapps as >>>> desktop apps. But just wanted to point out there are a whole bunch of >>>> counter issues as well that need to be dealt with. >>>> >>> >>> >>> Absolutely. It is definitely constructive and instructive to think about >>> all angles - even if just to understand the limits of a given approach. >>> Thank you for this conversation. >> The pleasure's mutual. I learnt a few things along the way. >> >> Dhananjay >> _______________________________________________ >> BangPypers mailing list >> BangPypers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers >> > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From rmehta at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 21:13:25 2013 From: rmehta at gmail.com (Rushabh Mehta) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 00:43:25 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6444196F-6B82-4A40-BB10-06BFC9D9F2A9@gmail.com> Its 2013 and I think its interesting people still want to write desktop apps. If you are already highly skilled in desktop GUIs then it probably makes sense, but browser is definitely the most portable environment for the future. For *most* cases, its usually better that the app is web by default. There are so many open source libraries (widgets, charting engines, UI frameworks) to choose from, so many services to plug in (Maps, Analytics etc) that its a no brainer even for scientific applications. The canvas for the web is just a whole lot wider. Deployment is still an issue, but thanks to broadband - VMs have become the easiest way to evaluate / deploy web apps. On 28-Sep-2013, at 12:21 AM, bangpypers-request at python.org wrote: > > I guess YMMV but if a local app launches a web server and a browser to > get things done, it's a deal breaker for me. > In this case starting a web server can be nothing more than executing a few hundreds of lines of python code that just happens to talk http and wsgi. It is more of a mental block than anything! I know because I had to fight it too :) The user does not need to know or care. Interacting with a browser tab is likely to be a bit more of a hurdle, particularly if the user opens your app twice and ends up with two browser tabs with your app, etc. It is certainly a possibility that some users will feel a bit disoriented. From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com Fri Sep 27 22:08:20 2013 From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 01:38:20 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: <6444196F-6B82-4A40-BB10-06BFC9D9F2A9@gmail.com> References: <6444196F-6B82-4A40-BB10-06BFC9D9F2A9@gmail.com> Message-ID: We needed Desktop apps as our apps are based on Hardware interfacing, ie Density, Pressure, Flow etc measuring transmitters and control devices. Those devices use the special industrial protocols and each protocols has its own advantages, need specific device drivers based on vendors. Desktop based solution is 100% expected in this cases. Now we make these Desktop apps as web enabled, that can connect to cloud for data backup or remote connectivity, iphone etc. Web Enabled is not web only option. There are cases that web/internet may not work inside food processing/chemical/refineries industries or you may not get either WIFI or 2G/3G not working due to external interferences such as noise, frequency, heat, gas, air pressure etc. We have cross platform app that works on Windows (.NET), iOS and Android. But that is not build using HTML/CSS/JS instead we use Lua as a common language and we code up each platform to have top level application in native technologies and then use Lua heavily as glue, cross platform. This means, we cannot write everything in Lua, but we can balance between native technologies (Objective C, Java, C#) and cross platform application. Web only is not always reliable, External factors such as network connectivity, modem/routers, bandwidth/speed, latency, fail over and many other stuffs can affect reliability. There are mission critical apps that still needs to work offline/Desktop. For social apps like facebook or twitter or even linkedin and many other social apps, web only option may be good. Building native (native as native) desktop apps using HTML5/CSS/(JS or Python) may not be too long, we need to come out of browser security levels, exposure to local resources to OS kernel/user/gdi objects shall help us to make apps in Desktop only. Mobile world is leading in this initiatives, Desktop world is far behind now. On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 12:43 AM, Rushabh Mehta wrote: > Its 2013 and I think its interesting people still want to write desktop > apps. If you are already highly skilled in desktop GUIs then it probably > makes sense, but browser is definitely the most portable environment for > the future. For *most* cases, its usually better that the app is web by > default. There are so many open source libraries (widgets, charting > engines, UI frameworks) to choose from, so many services to plug in (Maps, > Analytics etc) that its a no brainer even for scientific applications. The > canvas for the web is just a whole lot wider. > > Deployment is still an issue, but thanks to broadband - VMs have become > the easiest way to evaluate / deploy web apps. > > > On 28-Sep-2013, at 12:21 AM, bangpypers-request at python.org wrote: > > > > > I guess YMMV but if a local app launches a web server and a browser to > > get things done, it's a deal breaker for me. > > > > > In this case starting a web server can be nothing more than executing a few > hundreds of lines of python code that just happens to talk http and wsgi. > It is more of a mental block than anything! I know because I had to fight > it too :) The user does not need to know or care. > > Interacting with a browser tab is likely to be a bit more of a hurdle, > particularly if the user opens your app twice and ends up with two browser > tabs with your app, etc. It is certainly a possibility that some users will > feel a bit disoriented. > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From prasad.karani at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 10:39:20 2013 From: prasad.karani at gmail.com (Prasad Karani) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 14:09:20 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [JOBS] - www.indecommglobal.com/ Message-ID: Hi All , There are few openings for python developer *1)** **Python Developer ? (2-6 Yrs) - Job Location: Gurgaon * * * ? Should have rich work experience in Python development ? Working knowledge in Django framework & web technologies (HTML, CSS, Ajax, Java script) ? Should be good in Algorithms & Data structures ? Education Criteria: BE/B.Tech/MCA/MS/M.Tech *2)** **Python Lead OR Java Lead that has some Python exp and can handle Python projects and teams. ? (6-12 Years) - Job Location: Gurgaon * * * ? Primary skills: Python, Django framework, Java script, web based technologies, at least 2-3 yrs of team leading experience. ? Secondary Skills: Java JEE, Angular Java Script. ? Strong in Data structures, Algorithms, ? Education Criteria: BE/B.Tech/MCA/MS/M.Tech please mail me your profile so that i can refer to my HR Team. Regards, Prasad K From benignbala at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 11:05:13 2013 From: benignbala at gmail.com (Balachandran Sivakumar) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 14:35:13 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [JOBS] - www.indecommglobal.com/ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Prasad Karani wrote: > ? Education Criteria: BE/B.Tech/MCA/MS/M.Tech > Just my thought - Why do you specify an educational criteria, given that you are anyway seeking an experienced candidate ? I know someone(not in India) who doesn't have any degree at all, but is a top class programmer. Having a "minimum educational qualification" restricts us from getting really nice candidates. Thanks -- Thank you Balachandran Sivakumar Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. - Swami Vivekananda Mail: benignbala at gmail.com Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/ From pavanaja at vishvakannada.com Mon Sep 30 11:36:44 2013 From: pavanaja at vishvakannada.com (Pavanaja U B) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 15:06:44 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [JOBS] - www.indecommglobal.com/ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007201cebdc0$95cd18e0$c1674aa0$@vishvakannada.com> I fully agree with Prasad Kulkarni. I have seen many excellent programmers who do not have those engineering degrees. -Pavanaja -----Original Message----- From: BangPypers [mailto:bangpypers-bounces+pavanaja=vishvakannada.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Balachandran Sivakumar Sent: 30 September 2013 14:35 To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India Subject: Re: [BangPypers] [JOBS] - www.indecommglobal.com/ Hi On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Prasad Karani wrote: > ? Education Criteria: BE/B.Tech/MCA/MS/M.Tech > Just my thought - Why do you specify an educational criteria, given that you are anyway seeking an experienced candidate ? I know someone(not in India) who doesn't have any degree at all, but is a top class programmer. Having a "minimum educational qualification" restricts us from getting really nice candidates. Thanks -- Thank you Balachandran Sivakumar Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. - Swami Vivekananda Mail: benignbala at gmail.com Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/ _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From mehul.n.ved at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 12:00:51 2013 From: mehul.n.ved at gmail.com (Mehul Ved) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 15:30:51 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [X-POST] [JOBS] Fwd: Job Description Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Lokesh Dave Date: Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 11:41 PM Subject: Re: Job Description To: Mehul Ved We?re looking for people interested in getting in on the ground floor of an incredible opportunity to build amazing software. We believe that we need to build a team of highly talented people in order to create our next generation data platform. We are looking for software engineers with innovative ideas - who want to do remarkable things and are excited at the prospects of pushing new frontiers with technology. Our mission is to discover, curate and analyze large streams of structured and unstructured domain specific data. Our analytics platform is offered through a rich web interface as well as REST api's to business applications and services. Our service is built to scale to hundreds of millions of records and is deployed in a public cloud running on Linux servers. Our primary technical stack comprises of Python, Mongo DB, Redis and NodeJS for our backend. We are evaluating Hadoop and Storm for analytics as our data-set grows. More immediately, we are looking for a senior software engineer to join our small team. This is a great opportunity for someone to learn as well as contribute. More about us: http://idatalabs.com/ Required qualifications: * 2+ years of experience working with Python based web frameworks (Django, Flask, Tornado). * 2+ years working with databases (either mysql or nosql). * 1+ years of experience working with distributed, cloud based services. * Comfortable with javascript. Familiar with client side frameworks such as JQuery, Angular, Ember, D3, etc. * Familiarity with python packages such as pandas, numpy, scipy, nltk a huge plus. * Working knowledge of nosql stores such as mongodb, redis. * Ability and willingness to work on all tiers of the architecture, from UI to databases to devops. * Last but not least, ability to work in a fast-paced startup environment. Think you?ve got something to contribute to our exceptional team? I would like to hear from you! Reach out to me at lokesh at ldave.com if interested! -- With Regards, Mehul Ved From sankar.uday at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 13:07:36 2013 From: sankar.uday at gmail.com (uday sankar) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 16:37:36 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: How to do clustering in python. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, I have a engine built in python. I implemented a webserver in python it will listen to the request sent and will responsed back with the necessary result. Now the problem is that I am able to run this engine in one node, if this node goes down engine will go down and we will not be able to run the application. Is there any way if one node goes down other node will process the request. How we can implement clustering and load balancing in python?. Please guide me how we can do this. Regards Uday From i.amber.jain at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 06:08:56 2013 From: i.amber.jain at gmail.com (Amber Jain) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 09:38:56 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What are you using for developing desktop GUIs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Vinayak Hegde wrote: > On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Dhananjay Nene >wrote: > > > > Is kivy comparably good enough for desktop based development as > > desktop focused toolkits are? > > > > Adding to that, are there any thoughts from people who have used kivy apps > across OSes and devices ? Especially on interaction and look and feel as > these are traditionally hard to get right across platforms. > > I guess the best way is to try out some Kivy programs yourself. Kivy developement team wrote some example apps which nicely illustrate capabilities of Kivy: To install on Ubuntu (Source: http://kivy.org/docs/installation/installation-linux.html#using-software-packages ): sudo add-apt-repository ppa:kivy-team/kivy sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install python-kivy python-kivy-examples On Ubuntu, the examples are installed in subdirectories of '/usr/share/kivy-examples'. Out of these examples, there are three examples that are published on Play Store by Kivy devs. For comparison, here's how you can compare the same apps side-by-side on Android and Ubuntu: 1. Kivy Showcase On Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kivy.showcase On Ubuntu: python /usr/share/kivy-examples/demo/showcase/main.py 2. Kivy Touchtracer On Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kivy.touchtracer On Ubuntu: python /usr/share/kivy-examples/demo/touchtracer/main.py 3. Kivy Pictures On Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kivy.pictures On Ubuntu: python /usr/share/kivy-examples/demo/pictures/main.py Download/instructions for other operating systems are at http://kivy.org/#download -- Amber Jain i.amber.jain at gmail.com http://amberj.devio.us/ From karra.etc at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 13:33:42 2013 From: karra.etc at gmail.com (Sriram Karra) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 17:03:42 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Kivy (Was: Re: What are you using for developing desktop GUIs?) Message-ID: On Kivy: It appears one of the core Kivy developers ( https://plus.google.com/111271939129335069945/posts - Akshay) is "from India". Does anyone know more about him? From baiju.m.mail at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 14:40:27 2013 From: baiju.m.mail at gmail.com (Baiju M) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 18:10:27 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: How to do clustering in python. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 4:37 PM, uday sankar wrote: > Hi, > > I have a engine built in python. I implemented a webserver in python it > will listen to the request sent and will responsed back with the necessary > result. Now the problem is that I am able to run this engine in one node, > if this node goes down engine will go down and we will not be able to run > the application. Is there any way if one node goes down other node will > process the request. How we can implement clustering and load balancing in > python?. Please guide me how we can do this. If the protocol is HTTP, you can use mod_proxy_balancer: https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_proxy_balancer.html -- Baiju M From g.s.srinath89 at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 14:54:27 2013 From: g.s.srinath89 at gmail.com (Srinath) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 18:24:27 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: How to do clustering in python. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Assuming your service can be run on multiple servers, There are many ways to do load balancing. 1) If you are accessing the server with a name, simple way would be to set DNS TTL low and use DNS in weighted round robin. 2) You can set up HAProxy with heartbeat. 3) If you have to write on yourself, you can try using zeromq as per put here http://zguide.zeromq.org/py:lbbroker3 (I haven't tried this) . http://about.me/srinathgs I write code @ Alamut Srinath G S On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 6:10 PM, Baiju M wrote: > On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 4:37 PM, uday sankar > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have a engine built in python. I implemented a webserver in python it > > will listen to the request sent and will responsed back with the > necessary > > result. Now the problem is that I am able to run this engine in one node, > > if this node goes down engine will go down and we will not be able to run > > the application. Is there any way if one node goes down other node will > > process the request. How we can implement clustering and load balancing > in > > python?. Please guide me how we can do this. > > If the protocol is HTTP, you can use mod_proxy_balancer: > https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_proxy_balancer.html > > -- > Baiju M > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 15:36:28 2013 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 19:06:28 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: How to do clustering in python. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 4:37 PM, uday sankar wrote: > Hi, > > I have a engine built in python. I implemented a webserver in python it > will listen to the request sent and will responsed back with the necessary > result. Now the problem is that I am able to run this engine in one node, > if this node goes down engine will go down and we will not be able to run > the application. Is there any way if one node goes down other node will > process the request. How we can implement clustering and load balancing in > python?. Please guide me how we can do this. The most important question you need to answer is is your engine stateful ? Does it store any information in global, module, application level variables that a failover node will need in order to successfully process a request. Note: storing valid session ids or other information against a session or any such information within a process memory or in a storage subsystem (eg. local file system) that is not accessible to other engine classifies as stateful. Clustering stateless services is easy. Stateful ones isn't. The starting point would be to classify your system, and if feasible make it stateless. > > Regards > Uday > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene google plus: http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene From ramdaz at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 17:14:02 2013 From: ramdaz at gmail.com (Ramdas S) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 20:44:02 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: How to do clustering in python. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: HA Proxy could be a more professional bet If the protocol is HTTP, you can use mod_proxy_balancer: > https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_proxy_balancer.html > > -- > Baiju M > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From kracethekingmaker at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 21:17:02 2013 From: kracethekingmaker at gmail.com (kracekumar ramaraju) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 00:47:02 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Kivy (Was: Re: What are you using for developing desktop GUIs?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If I am right he gave a talk in 2011 pycon in Pune.