From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de  Fri Mar  1 11:41:45 2002
From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 12:41:45 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [XML-SIG] Failing attempt to import xml.xslt on OS X
Message-ID: <1014982905.3c7f68f99ec8c@webmail.in-berlin.de>

Hi,

I'm trying to make use of the excellent "Python & XML" book and am 
currently interested in using XSLT. It seems to work flawlessly on 
a Windows box using Python 2.1, pyXML 0.6.5 (or 0.6.6) and 4Suite 
0.11.1. Now I'm trying on OS X with Python 2.2, pyXML 0.7 and 
4Suite 0.11.1 (all built from sources) which gives me the following 
import error below. 

Hence I wonder if this is just a bad combination of versions or
something else? I know that 4Suite doesn't offer binaries for Py-
thon 2.2 for downloading, but does that mean it should not be
expected to work on 2.2, too? Or is it pyXML 0.7?

Thanks for any insight!

Dinu


[localhost:~] dinu% python
Python 2.2 (#1, Feb 13 2002, 11:18:45) 
[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import xml.xslt
XXX rd_object called with exception set
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/_xmlplus/xslt/__init__.py", line 
36, in ?
    from xml import xpath
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/_xmlplus/xpath/__init__.py", 
line 116, in ?
    from pyxpath import ExprParserFactory
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/_xmlplus/xpath/pyxpath.py", line 
59, in ?
    from xml.xpath.ParsedAbbreviatedRelativeLocationPath import 
ParsedAbbreviatedRelativeLocationPath
ImportError: No module named ParsedAbbreviatedRelativeLocationPath
>>> 


From Mike.Olson@fourthought.com  Fri Mar  1 16:35:07 2002
From: Mike.Olson@fourthought.com (Mike Olson)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 09:35:07 -0700
Subject: [XML-SIG] Failing attempt to import xml.xslt on OS X
In-Reply-To: <1014982905.3c7f68f99ec8c@webmail.in-berlin.de>
References: <1014982905.3c7f68f99ec8c@webmail.in-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1015000508.4611.25.camel@penny>

On Fri, 2002-03-01 at 04:41, Dinu Gherman wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to make use of the excellent "Python & XML" book and am 
> currently interested in using XSLT. It seems to work flawlessly on 
> a Windows box using Python 2.1, pyXML 0.6.5 (or 0.6.6) and 4Suite 
> 0.11.1. Now I'm trying on OS X with Python 2.2, pyXML 0.7 and 
> 4Suite 0.11.1 (all built from sources) which gives me the following 
> import error below. 
> 
> Hence I wonder if this is just a bad combination of versions or
> something else? I know that 4Suite doesn't offer binaries for Py-
> thon 2.2 for downloading, but does that mean it should not be
> expected to work on 2.2, too? Or is it pyXML 0.7?

Its PyXML 0.7.  You will either need to downgrade your PyXML to 0.6.5 or
upgrade your 4Suite to the 0.12 alpha.  The alpha is available at:

ftp://ftp.4suite.org

Mike

> 
> Thanks for any insight!
> 
> Dinu
> 
> 
> [localhost:~] dinu% python
> Python 2.2 (#1, Feb 13 2002, 11:18:45) 
> [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on darwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import xml.xslt
> XXX rd_object called with exception set
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/_xmlplus/xslt/__init__.py", line 
> 36, in ?
>     from xml import xpath
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/_xmlplus/xpath/__init__.py", 
> line 116, in ?
>     from pyxpath import ExprParserFactory
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/_xmlplus/xpath/pyxpath.py", line 
> 59, in ?
>     from xml.xpath.ParsedAbbreviatedRelativeLocationPath import 
> ParsedAbbreviatedRelativeLocationPath
> ImportError: No module named ParsedAbbreviatedRelativeLocationPath
> >>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> XML-SIG maillist  -  XML-SIG@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/xml-sig
-- 
Mike Olson                                Principal Consultant
mike.olson@fourthought.com                +1 303 583 9900 x 102
Fourthought, Inc.                         http://Fourthought.com 
4735 East Walnut St,                      http://4Suite.org
Boulder, CO 80301-2537, USA
XML strategy, XML tools, knowledge management



From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de  Sat Mar  2 11:08:08 2002
From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 12:08:08 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [XML-SIG] Package borderlines and overlap (and versions)
Message-ID: <1015067287.3c80b29803050@webmail.in-berlin.de>

Hi,

I'm doing some little benchmarking of Python XML tools and
what to write a header about the used components. This leads
to some latent confusion on my side being more exposed now.

It's about the borderlines and overlap of these packages:

  1. the XML tools in the Python standard library
  2. the pyXML extensions
  3. the 4Suite extensions

What is not quite clear to me, admittedly not yet a Python/XML
"power user", is if and which parts of entry N above do really
replace/overwrite parts in N-i (0<i<N)?

If I do this:

  >>> import xml
  >>> xml.__version__
  '0.7'

I obviously get the version number of pyXML, but if I use Python
2.3a0 without any additional XML packages I get this:

  >>> import xml
  >>> xml.__version__
  '1.11'

Then, back on my Python 2.2, I see that I can import Ft (a rather
short module name, BTW - why not FourThought?) directly, to get 
something like this:

  >>> import Ft
  >>> Ft.__version__
  '0.11.1'
  >>> Ft.__pyxml_version__
  '0.6.6'

I could probably continue to describe such cases, but I'd rather end 
with four short questions that might better explain my confusion:

  1. does is make any sense to speak of versions for the 
     XML tools in the stdlib? (I did that above, but maybe
     that's plain nonsense. Is the XML stuff in the stdlib
     further developped, BTW?)
  2. what is the canonical way to determine programmatically
     which versions of the XML tools in the stdlib, pyXML
     and 4Suite one is using and/or if they are installed
     at all?
  3. is there a way/document/figure to explain (easily) how 
     all these components interact and how they overlap if 
     they do overlap?
  4. is there a "road map" for some other way of structuring,
     packaging and/or distributing all these modules and/or
     is it planned to gradually shift modules from N to 
     N-i (0<i<N) in my first list above?

Please don't get me wrong - I love what is available from the
XML-SIG and highly appreciate what all of you did! I just have 
a slight feeling that it could be easier to use -- maybe. But
then, perhaps it's just my own sillyness...?

Best regards,

Dinu


From martin@v.loewis.de  Sat Mar  2 12:51:30 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 02 Mar 2002 13:51:30 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Package borderlines and overlap (and versions)
In-Reply-To: <1015067287.3c80b29803050@webmail.in-berlin.de>
References: <1015067287.3c80b29803050@webmail.in-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <m3wuwv8759.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Dinu Gherman <gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de> writes:

> It's about the borderlines and overlap of these packages:
> 
>   1. the XML tools in the Python standard library
>   2. the pyXML extensions
>   3. the 4Suite extensions
> 
> What is not quite clear to me, admittedly not yet a Python/XML
> "power user", is if and which parts of entry N above do really
> replace/overwrite parts in N-i (0<i<N)?

2 replaces 1 (extending it). The relation between 3 and 2 depends on
the specific releases, and has changed over time. Some releases of 3
replaced/incorporated/overwrote 2, some releases of 3 mandated
presence of 2, some releases of 2 had overlap with prior releases of
3.

> If I do this:
> 
>   >>> import xml
>   >>> xml.__version__
>   '0.7'
> 
> I obviously get the version number of pyXML, but if I use Python
> 2.3a0 without any additional XML packages I get this:
> 
>   >>> import xml
>   >>> xml.__version__
>   '1.11'

Correct.

>   1. does is make any sense to speak of versions for the 
>      XML tools in the stdlib? (I did that above, but maybe
>      that's plain nonsense. Is the XML stuff in the stdlib
>      further developped, BTW?)

No. Just speak of Python 2.1, 2.2, etc.

>   2. what is the canonical way to determine programmatically
>      which versions of the XML tools in the stdlib, pyXML
>      and 4Suite one is using and/or if they are installed
>      at all?

stdlib: check sys.version_info
  Note: some Linux distributions don't install, by default,
  the xml package when installing Python 2.x. Please report this
  as a bug to the distributors.

PyXML: check for presence of xml.dom.ext.

4Suite: check for presence of Ft.

This is rather ad-hoc than canonical, but I believe it will still work
with all past and most future releases (the PyXML test will only work
since 0.6; just ignore all prior PyXML releases).

>   3. is there a way/document/figure to explain (easily) how 
>      all these components interact and how they overlap if 
>      they do overlap?

Not that I know of. Notice that such a document would be hard to
maintain.

>   4. is there a "road map" for some other way of structuring,
>      packaging and/or distributing all these modules and/or
>      is it planned to gradually shift modules from N to 
>      N-i (0<i<N) in my first list above?

Depends on whom you ask; also, such a list is also in constant flux,
given that some of the shifts are implemented, while others turn out
not be such a good idea.

Here is my current list:

- move xml.xpath and xml.xslt to PyXML. For that, move 4XPath and 4XSLT
  to the Ft package, allowing for simultaneous installation of the 4Suite
  and the PyXML version of these libraries. This will be implemented
  in 4Suite 0.12 on the 4Suite side, and probably in PyXML 0.7.2 on the
  PyXML side.
- Drop pDomlette in favour of minidom. This is in progress, but no
  specific completion is done.
- Incorporate Expat sources into Python CVS. Done, to be released with
  Python 2.3.

There are a number of suggestions which are wishlist items at the
moment only:
- provide xml.xpath (or some other means of doing XPath) in the
  stdlib.

I'm sure other people have additional agenda items to contribute.

> Please don't get me wrong - I love what is available from the
> XML-SIG and highly appreciate what all of you did! I just have 
> a slight feeling that it could be easier to use -- maybe. But
> then, perhaps it's just my own sillyness...?

You are certainly right: Things could be easier if people invested
time to make them easier. Contributions are welcome.

Regards,
Martin


From paulcocoi@hotmail.com  Tue Mar  5 06:06:56 2002
From: paulcocoi@hotmail.com (µðÀ¯ µµ¿ì¹Ì)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:06:56 +0900
Subject: [XML-SIG] (no subject)
Message-ID: <E16i7r7-0000Vz-00@mail.python.org>

<html>
<head>
<title>Untitled Document</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=euc-kr">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p><img src="http://du.co.kr/ad_img1.gif" width="500" height="382" usemap="#Map" border="0">
</p>
<p><font size="2" color="#666666">¼ö½Å°ÅºÎ¸¦ ¿øÇÏ½Ã¸é ¾Æ·¡¿¡¼­ ¼ö½Å°ÅºÎ ÇØ ÁÖ¼¼¿ä. °ÅºÎÇϽŠºÐµé¿¡°Ô´Â È«º¸¸ÞÀÏÀ»<br>
´Ù½Ã º¸³»Áö ¾Ê½À´Ï´Ù. </font><font size="2"><br>
<a href="http://du.co.kr/reject.htm"><font color="#003399">[¼ö½Å°ÅºÎ]</font></a></font></p>
<p><font size="2"> <br>
</font><font size="7"> </font> </p>
<p>
<map name="Map">
<area shape="rect" coords="3,3,497,258" href="http://du.co.kr/main.htm" target="_blank">
<area shape="rect" coords="374,348,483,381" href="http://auction.co.kr/buy/detail_view.asp?ItemNo=0146423490" target="_blank">
</map>
</p>
</body>
</html>


From eekim@eekim.com  Wed Mar  6 23:22:50 2002
From: eekim@eekim.com (Eugene Eric Kim)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:22:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [XML-SIG] summary of Web Services discussions at Foundry
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203061519360.1248-100000@hugh.burdenslanding.org>

I'm the Distributed Computing Foundry Guide over at SourceForge:

  http://foundries.sourceforge.net/distributed/

I followed last month's discussion of WSDL, SOAP, and REST with great
interest, and decided to map the discussion so that all of that valuable
content wouldn't get lost.  An introduction to that map is posted at my
foundry, while the map itself is located at:

  http://www.eekim.com/distcomp/dialogmaps/webservices.html

Questions and comments are welcome!

-Eugene

-- 
+=== Eugene Eric Kim ===== eekim@eekim.com ===== http://www.eekim.com/ ===+
|       "Writer's block is a fancy term made up by whiners so they        |
+=====  can have an excuse to drink alcohol."  --Steve Martin  ===========+



From rsalz@zolera.com  Thu Mar  7 01:32:39 2002
From: rsalz@zolera.com (Rich Salz)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:32:39 -0500
Subject: [XML-SIG] summary of Web Services discussions at Foundry
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203061519360.1248-100000@hugh.burdenslanding.org>
Message-ID: <3C86C337.C4427A83@zolera.com>

> foundry, while the map itself is located at:
>   http://www.eekim.com/distcomp/dialogmaps/webservices.html
> 
> Questions and comments are welcome!

Wow, that's totally awesome.

If you're feeling adventurous, the W3C XML Protocol (SOAP) list is
having a similar discussion; you could download the archives and map
that. :)  As it is, I might post a link to your map to the WG, if you
don't mind.
	/r$
-- 
Zolera Systems, Securing web services (XML, SOAP, Signatures,
Encryption)
http://www.zolera.com


From info@psrorders.com  Thu Mar  7 03:10:36 2002
From: info@psrorders.com (M V Janulaitis)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:10:36 -0700
Subject: [XML-SIG] We had a problem with our mail server
Message-ID: <AHEJJBKBEGKLDKENGMBACEJNCIAA.info@psrorders.com>

xml-sig@python.org

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mail server had a problem when it tired to send this month's note.  If this
is a duplicate please ignore it.

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You are getting this note because you opted on one our sites.  If do not
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From pgaherty@chambersharrap.co.uk  Thu Mar  7 10:18:03 2002
From: pgaherty@chambersharrap.co.uk (Patrick Gaherty)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 10:18:03 +0000
Subject: [XML-SIG] Problem with entities
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307100714.00a97ef8@192.168.0.1>

I'm using the XMLGenerator class from saxutils (PyXML 0.7) and I'm having 
problems with entities. To start off with I'm just trying to recreate the 
original XML input file. ie

class Generator(saxutils.XMLGenerator):

         def startElement(self,name,attrs):
                 saxutils.XMLGenerator.startElement(self,name,attrs)

         def endElement(self,name):
                 saxutils.XMLGenerator.endElement(self,name)

         def characters(self,content):
                 saxutils.XMLGenerator.characters(self,content)


fout1 = re.sub(r'\.', '_tmp.', sys.argv[1])
output = open(fout1, 'w')
p = make_parser()
p.setContentHandler(Generator(output))
p.parse(sys.argv[1])

This works a treat, except I'm losing any entities I've declared in my DTD 
(ie &oelig;). Ideally I'd like them to appear in the output untouched. Any 
help to point me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Patrick Gaherty



From tpassin@comcast.net  Thu Mar  7 13:56:25 2002
From: tpassin@comcast.net (Thomas B. Passin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:56:25 -0500
Subject: [XML-SIG] Problem with entities
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307100714.00a97ef8@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <000601c1c5df$e0ed1fe0$0bf13044@tbp>

[Patrick Gaherty]


> I'm using the XMLGenerator class from saxutils (PyXML 0.7) and I'm having
> problems with entities. To start off with I'm just trying to recreate the
> original XML input file. ie
>
> class Generator(saxutils.XMLGenerator):
>
>          def startElement(self,name,attrs):
>                  saxutils.XMLGenerator.startElement(self,name,attrs)
>
>          def endElement(self,name):
>                  saxutils.XMLGenerator.endElement(self,name)
>
>          def characters(self,content):
>                  saxutils.XMLGenerator.characters(self,content)
>
>
> fout1 = re.sub(r'\.', '_tmp.', sys.argv[1])
> output = open(fout1, 'w')
> p = make_parser()
> p.setContentHandler(Generator(output))
> p.parse(sys.argv[1])
>
> This works a treat, except I'm losing any entities I've declared in my DTD
> (ie &oelig;). Ideally I'd like them to appear in the output untouched. Any
> help to point me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.
>

This cannot be done with standard xml processing, because by the xml Rec,
the parser has to expand the entities into the strings they represent.  Then
they are gone, and no memory of the original entities remains.  And for any
standard xml processing purpose, you don't need them, although they may make
the output more readable for you.

If the parser provides a startEntity callback, you could capture them in
your handler, and restore them later, perhaps.  Someone else on the list
could tell you about doing this with Pyxml, Or you could do some
postprocessing to restore them.

Cheers,

Tom P



From dave@primco.org  Fri Mar  8 00:28:37 2002
From: dave@primco.org (David Primmer)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:28:37 -0800
Subject: [XML-SIG] Re: HTML<->UTF-8 'codec'?
Message-ID: <000001c1c638$3497db00$6401a8c0@redcloud>

See:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2001-October/006214.html

ftp://ftp.parc.xerox.com/transient/janssen/htmlcodec.py,


I've downloaded Bill Janssen's module to escape UTF8 to HTML and =
vice-versa but I'm a python newbie and I really can't tell how make it =
work. I have some UTF8 data with a bunch of curly quotes that I'd like =
to turn them into html entities and this module seems perfect for it but =
it doesn't do what's expected and if anybody knows how to fix it or if =
there's another option beside writing my own re I'd appreciate it.=20

I should mention that I have=20

sys.setdefaultencoding('utf-8')=20

in my sitecustomize.py

It seems like I should use the decode function: "Decode takes UTF-8 HTML =
and converts all characters above the ASCII range to HTML character =
entity references." But it appears that the opposite is true.


This works...

>>> print 'I&rsquo;ve had'.decode("html-utf-8")
I=E2=80=99ve had

>>> print 'I&rsquo;ve had'.decode("html-utf-8").encode("html-utf-8")
I&#8217;ve had

Ok... but here's the problem. Using a cut'paste from my Word generated =
utf-8 file into IDLE I get:

>>> print 'I=E2=80=99ve had'.encode("html-utf-8")
I&#226;&#128;&#153;ve had

Which makes a bunch of garbage in my browser of course.

At first I was thinking there was something wrong with my form of utf-8.

But Notepad and IE6 recognize it as utf-8 and open and display it fine =
and re-saving from notepad to utf-8 format gives the same result.

So I did research on this for a couple of hours and I made this test:

import htmlcodec
import unicodedata
import shutil

f=3Dopen('newfile.html','wb')
f.write(unicodedata.lookup('RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK'))
f.close()

f=3Dopen('newfile.html','rb')
a =3D f.read()
b =3D a.encode('html-utf-8')
print 'from file'
print b
print 'no file'
print unicodedata.lookup('RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION =
MARK').encode('html-utf-8')
del f

results in:

from file
&#226;&#128;&#157;
no file
&#8221;

Any help is appreciated!

Davep



From dave@primco.org  Fri Mar  8 00:57:52 2002
From: dave@primco.org (David Primmer)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:57:52 -0800
Subject: [XML-SIG] Re: HTML<->UTF-8 'codec'? - correction
Message-ID: <000101c1c63c$49bfd290$6401a8c0@redcloud>

I should have known this wouldn't look right when displayed in the
pipermail archives. 

This line:

>>> print 'I&rsquo;ve had'.decode("html-utf-8")
I=E2=80=99ve had


Should look like a there's a right single quotation mark instead of
"=E2=80=99"

Same goes for this line:

>>> print 'I=E2=80=99ve had'.encode("html-utf-8")
I&#226;&#128;&#153;ve had

Also, I'm not sure why in the lines with "f=3Dopen" the archive software
stuck a "3D" in. It should be "f=open" of course.

Is there any hope for Unicode?

Thanks again.

davep



From martin@v.loewis.de  Fri Mar  8 08:42:16 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 08 Mar 2002 09:42:16 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Re: HTML<->UTF-8 'codec'?
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c638$3497db00$6401a8c0@redcloud>
References: <000001c1c638$3497db00$6401a8c0@redcloud>
Message-ID: <m3bsdz4fiv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"David Primmer" <dave@primco.org> writes:

> Ok... but here's the problem. Using a cut'paste from my Word generated ut=
f-8 file into IDLE I get:
>=20
> >>> print 'I=E2=19ve had'.encode("html-utf-8")
> I&#226;&#128;&#153;ve had
>=20
> Which makes a bunch of garbage in my browser of course.

The reason is that you cannot cut-and-paste UTF-8 bytes using the
Windows clipboard. You did not describe exactly how you performed the
"cut'paste", but I assume you've used some UTF-8-unaware editor (or
perhaps even "type" on a console), then copied the resulting
characters. This cannot work: it will past the resulting characters,
*not* the sequence of bytes. If your Windows system code page is, say,
CP 1252, then you will get a bunch of Latin characters pasted into
IDLE. When saving the file with all those characters, IDLE will save
them as UTF-8 (because of the Python default encoding).

> f=3Dopen('newfile.html','wb')
> f.write(unicodedata.lookup('RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK'))
> f.close()
>=20
> f=3Dopen('newfile.html','rb')
> a =3D f.read()
> b =3D a.encode('html-utf-8')
> print 'from file'
> print b

> results in:
>=20
> from file
> &#226;&#128;&#157;

There is an error in this code. unicodedata.lookup gives you a Unicode
object. You try to write this into a file. This should normally not
work, but you've changed the default encoding, so it unfortunately
does: saving the Unicode object as UTF-8. Then you read it back as
variable a, which is a byte string. This byte string happens to be
three bytes (as defined in UTF-8).

Now you invoke the .encode method on the byte string. Encoding a
string is a somewhat difficult notion, since the string already *is*
encoded - it is not clear what this should do. What it does is:
- find the html-utf-8 codec,
- pass it the byte string
The codec operates on any sequence, converting all non-ASCII bytes
to character references. This gives you the result that you got.

What you really meant is

f=3Dopen('newfile.html','wb')
f.write(unicodedata.lookup('RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK').encode("utf-8"))
f.close()
=20
f=3Dopen('newfile.html','rb')
a =3D f.read().decode("utf-8")
b =3D a.encode('html-utf-8')
print 'from file'
print b

or better

f=3Dcodecs.open('newfile.html','wb', encoding=3D"utf-8")
f.write(unicodedata.lookup('RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK'))
f.close()
=20
f=3Dcodecs.open('newfile.html','rb',encoding=3D"utf-8")
a =3D f.read()
b =3D a.encode('html-utf-8')
print 'from file'
print b

When you have a file that is encoded in UTF-8, please say so in your
program; do not rely on the system default encoding (in fact, never
change it): Explicit is better than implicit.

Regards,
Martin



From dave@primco.org  Fri Mar  8 10:29:09 2002
From: dave@primco.org (David Primmer)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 02:29:09 -0800
Subject: [XML-SIG] Re: HTML<->UTF-8 'codec'?
In-Reply-To: <m3bsdz4fiv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <000301c1c68c$18506e90$6401a8c0@redcloud>

Thank you! Yes. I didn't know you needed to use codecs.open() and I
figured it had something to do with the serialization. Looks like I have
to use codecs.open() or tack on .decode() everywhere I've used plain
open() calls. 

I don't remember seeing that function used anywhere. This seems like
pretty obscure stuff. I got the defaultencoding setting from an XML
tutorial that noted it as a solution for toxml() barfing all the time.

I worry that I won't have much support if I build my app around Unicode
data. Are there many examples of its use?  Any info on Unicode in python
other than the standard docs? I could only find this:

http://www.reportlab.com/i18n/python_unicode_tutorial.html


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin v. Loewis
<snip>

> You try to write this into a file. This should normally not
> work, but you've changed the default encoding, so it unfortunately
> does: saving the Unicode object as UTF-8. Then you read it back as
> variable a, which is a byte string. This byte string happens to be
> three bytes (as defined in UTF-8).

And why doesn't python just know that it should read a Unicode file as
Unicode characters and not as a byte string? Is it the "rb"? Lowest
common denominator? This just seems wrong but maybe it's for backwards
compatibility or something. Seems like python "supports" Unicode and
maybe better than most but it's not fully integrated. Correct me if I'm
being too harsh.

> The reason is that you cannot cut-and-paste UTF-8 bytes using the
> Windows clipboard. You did not describe exactly how you performed the
> "cut'paste", but I assume you've used some UTF-8-unaware editor (or
> perhaps even "type" on a console), then copied the resulting
> characters. 


I sure thought the windows xp clipboard supported Unicode. I was using
plain old notepad, which has been Unicode aware for years and Microsoft
Word 2002, which is also Unicode. How can I paste back and forth between
these two if the clipboard doesn't support it? 

Thanks for clearing that up and getting me working again.

davep



From mal@lemburg.com  Fri Mar  8 15:23:15 2002
From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:23:15 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Re: HTML<->UTF-8 'codec'?
References: <000301c1c68c$18506e90$6401a8c0@redcloud>
Message-ID: <3C88D763.9E0A2BC9@lemburg.com>

David Primmer wrote:
> 
> Thank you! Yes. I didn't know you needed to use codecs.open() and I
> figured it had something to do with the serialization. Looks like I have
> to use codecs.open() or tack on .decode() everywhere I've used plain
> open() calls.
> 
> I don't remember seeing that function used anywhere. This seems like
> pretty obscure stuff. I got the defaultencoding setting from an XML
> tutorial that noted it as a solution for toxml() barfing all the time.
> 
> I worry that I won't have much support if I build my app around Unicode
> data. Are there many examples of its use?  Any info on Unicode in python
> other than the standard docs? I could only find this:
> 
> http://www.reportlab.com/i18n/python_unicode_tutorial.html

You should take a look at the Unicode PEP 100 and the source code
in the encodings package if you're interested in writing codecs.

Other examples can be found in the python-codecs project on 
SourceForge. Tamito's JapaneseCodecs also provide a good intro-
duction.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH
______________________________________________________________________
Company & Consulting:                           http://www.egenix.com/
Python Software:                   http://www.egenix.com/files/python/


From faassen@vet.uu.nl  Mon Mar 11 16:38:17 2002
From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:38:17 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] XPath's reliance on id()
Message-ID: <20020311163817.GA15576@vet.uu.nl>

Hi there,

PyXML's XPath implementation sometimes calls Util.SortDocOrder, which in 
turn tries to push DOM nodes into a hashtable by using the id() function on
the nodes, to do some indexing. This relies on something beyond the DOM,
and causes me trouble with Zope's ParsedXML's DOM, which due to various reasons
makes the use of id() directly unreliable.

Now, it's hard to see how to make this code work without some hashing,
so we seem to have to rely on *something*. But can't we make it 
use __hash__ instead of using id? I think I can make this work for
ParsedXML (in fact I tried and at least it's not giving any errors).

This means the following needs to happen:

  * all DOMs that expect to work with PyXML's xpath need to define 
    __hash__(). In the simplest case this simply does an id() on the
   node.

  * we need to alter the code in xpath/Util.py so as not to rely on
    id() anymore but to use the node objects as hash keys directly. 

Does this seem like a plan people can live with? If so I volunteer in
going in and do this for PyXML.

Hmm.. I just thought of a possible spanner in the works. ParsedXML works
by having proxy DOM objects that refer to the real underlying DOM node.
If the underlying node defines __hash__ and the proxy objects forward
to it, will Util.py's index dictionary still work properly? 

Or should I use hash() directly to go around that issue? 

Regards,

Martijn



From '°¡¸¶Á¤º¸ÇнÀ' <neem@hananet.net>  Mon Mar 11 22:51:15 2002
From: '°¡¸¶Á¤º¸ÇнÀ' <neem@hananet.net> (greenmeal@hananet.net)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:51:15 +0900
Subject: [XML-SIG] [±¤°í] Á¤º¸ ÇнÀ µµ±¸
Message-ID: <414159-220023111225115470@hananet.net>

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href="mailto:neem@hananet.net?subject=¼ö½Å°ÅºÎ&amp;body=¼ö½ÅÀ»
°ÅºÎÇÕ´Ï´Ù."><FONT size=2>¼ö½Å°ÅºÎ</FONT></A></TD></TR>
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From nhs@llnl.gov  Tue Mar 12 18:47:24 2002
From: nhs@llnl.gov (Norman Samuelson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:47:24 -0800
Subject: [XML-SIG] Python and DOM
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312103746.00b0dff8@popeye.llnl.gov>

We are developing a GUI, named Cyclops, that makes heavy use of XML.  The 
purpose of the GUI is to edit input files for large physics simulation 
codes, which have very large sets of input parameters.  The interface is 
defined in an XML file for each physics code we support.  This allows one 
GUI to support many physics codes.  Cyclops writes its output in XML, which 
is then translated by Xalan/Xerces to the format required by that physics 
code.  The toughest part of the project is writing input translators, codes 
that read the old text file format and transform it into XML.  We have done 
some of those translators in Perl, but we are considering Python for the 
next one.

One way of doing that is to write the XML directly.  That is a lot of work 
and can be difficult to maintain.  I would like to try building a DOM tree, 
then simply let DOM write the tree out in XML.  Is there a DOM interface 
for Python that would be suitable for that?

Please reply to me directly as I am not yet a subscriber to the xml-sig.


- Norm -

Norman H. Samuelson                         nhs@llnl.gov
Lawrence Livermore National Lab      925-422-0661
P.O. Box 808, L-98
Livermore, CA 94551 



From Francois-regis.Chalaoux@sanofi-synthelabo.com  Tue Mar 12 16:43:13 2002
From: Francois-regis.Chalaoux@sanofi-synthelabo.com (Francois-regis Chalaoux)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:43:13 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] raise _exceptions.SAXReaderNotAvailable
Message-ID: <"020312190539Z.WT25228. 73*/PN=Francois-regis.Chalaoux/O=RESEARCH/PRMD=SANOFI/ADMD=ATLAS/C=FR/"@MHS>

Hi All,

We copied all Python stuff from one development sun machine to production sun machine (a bit stronger : ram , proc, etc ...). Yes, There is no compiler on this latest machine so we also copied _xmlplus package, without a new compilation.
The code is working on the development machine.

I give you these details cause it seems to be the only difference bettween the 2 machines. 

On the production machine I got now an error when using the "same" xml librairies ?
Above is tracback.

Any idea ?

Cheers, FR.

Config
=====
Python-2.1.1
_xmlplus-0.7
sunos 5.8

Traceback
=========

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/Micromass/GlobalServer/V1.1/WebServer/Apache/cgi-bin/masse/sgxml/co
nfirm_archive.py", line 82, in ?
    py_obj = XML_Objectify(file).make_instance()
  File "../../lib/xml_objectify.py", line 218, in __init__
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/_xmlplus/dom/minidom.py", line 96
5, in parseString
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/_xmlplus/dom/minidom.py", line 95
1, in _doparse
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/_xmlplus/dom/pulldom.py", line 34
1, in parseString
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/sax2exts.py", line 3
4, in make_parser
    return XMLParserFactory.make_parser(parser_list)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/saxexts.py", line 64
, in make_parser
    return self._create_parser(parser_name)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/saxexts.py", line 43
, in _create_parser
    return drv_module.create_parser()
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/saxexts.py", line 74
, in _create_parser
    raise _exceptions.SAXReaderNotAvailable
TypeError: __init__() takes at least 2 arguments (1 given) 


From martin@v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 12 20:57:57 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 21:57:57 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Python and DOM
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312103746.00b0dff8@popeye.llnl.gov>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312103746.00b0dff8@popeye.llnl.gov>
Message-ID: <m3it81a4h6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Norman Samuelson <nhs@llnl.gov> writes:

> One way of doing that is to write the XML directly.  That is a lot of
> work and can be difficult to maintain.  I would like to try building a
> DOM tree, then simply let DOM write the tree out in XML.  Is there a
> DOM interface for Python that would be suitable for that?

Certainly. Since Python 2.2, xml.dom.minidom is available; it is a DOM
2 Core implementation. Use xml.dom.minidom.parse to create a DOM tree;
use toxml() on the resulting tree to serialize the tree again.

HTH,
Martin



From martin@v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 12 20:59:28 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 21:59:28 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] raise _exceptions.SAXReaderNotAvailable
In-Reply-To: <"020312190539Z.WT25228. 73*/PN=Francois-regis.Chalaoux/O=RESEARCH/PRMD=SANOFI/ADMD=ATLAS/C=FR/"@MHS>
References: <"020312190539Z.WT25228. 73*/PN=Francois-regis.Chalaoux/O=RESEARCH/PRMD=SANOFI/ADMD=ATLAS/C=FR/"@MHS>
Message-ID: <m3elipa4en.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Francois-regis Chalaoux <Francois-regis.Chalaoux@sanofi-synthelabo.com> writes:

> On the production machine I got now an error when using the "same"
> xml librairies ?

Did you copy the pyexpat module as well? What happens when you do

>>> import xml.parsers.expat

HTH,
Martin


From mal@lemburg.com  Tue Mar 12 21:07:09 2002
From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:07:09 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Python and DOM
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312103746.00b0dff8@popeye.llnl.gov>
Message-ID: <3C8E6DFD.84E4867@lemburg.com>

Norman Samuelson wrote:
> 
> We are developing a GUI, named Cyclops, that makes heavy use of XML.  The
> purpose of the GUI is to edit input files for large physics simulation
> codes, which have very large sets of input parameters.  The interface is
> defined in an XML file for each physics code we support.  This allows one
> GUI to support many physics codes.  Cyclops writes its output in XML, which
> is then translated by Xalan/Xerces to the format required by that physics
> code.  The toughest part of the project is writing input translators, codes
> that read the old text file format and transform it into XML.  We have done
> some of those translators in Perl, but we are considering Python for the
> next one.

I'd suggest to write parsers similar to the ones used in BioPython
which are based on mxTextTools. These are typically very fast and
pretty much do the same for biotech data files (ie. convert them to
XML).

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH
______________________________________________________________________
Company & Consulting:                           http://www.egenix.com/
Python Software:                   http://www.egenix.com/files/python/


From hiphopismylife@lycos.co.kr  Wed Mar 13 02:14:10 2002
From: hiphopismylife@lycos.co.kr (È«º¸¸Ç)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:14:10 +0900
Subject: [XML-SIG] (no subject)
Message-ID: <E16kyG0-0003RC-00@mail.python.org>

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From faassen@vet.uu.nl  Wed Mar 13 11:11:04 2002
From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:11:04 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] XPath's reliance on id()
In-Reply-To: <20020311163817.GA15576@vet.uu.nl>
References: <20020311163817.GA15576@vet.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <20020313111104.GA30274@vet.uu.nl>

Hi there,

Posting to my own thread; should I assume there are no objections to
this procedure, or just that nobody understood me? :)

In my own copy of PyXML I've replaced id() calls with hash() calls and 
implemented the __hash__ method for ParsedXML (it was already mostly
done). The task remains is to go through the other Python DOMs and implement
a __hash__ there too if it doesn't already exist, which can then simply
call id() on itself (if that's a bug, it's at least equivalent with the
current behavior :).

Regards,

Martijn



From Francois-regis.Chalaoux@sanofi-synthelabo.com  Wed Mar 13 09:31:50 2002
From: Francois-regis.Chalaoux@sanofi-synthelabo.com (Francois-regis Chalaoux)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:31:50 +0100
Subject: Réf. : Re: [XML-SIG] raise _exceptions.SAXReaderNotAvailable
Message-ID: <"020313114246Z.WT06166.  6*/PN=Francois-regis.Chalaoux/O=RESEARCH/PRMD=SANOFI/ADMD=ATLAS/C=FR/"@MHS>

Yes, I copied the pyexpat module.
and import xml.parsers.expat is working if /usr/local/lib where is libexpat.so.0 is in the LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
These tests were realized with the account 'user1' on command line.

However, the cgi, which doesn't work, is call by 'user1' (son of root daemon which start Apache) with an environment which may not the same. os.environ.items() doesn't give me the LD_LIBRARY_PATH. How to get it if a good track ?

FR





martin@v.loewis.de%internet le 12/03/2002 21:59:28
Pour :	Francois-regis Chalaoux/FR-LABEGE/RESEARCH/SANOFI@Research
cc :	xml-sig@python.org%internet@WTFR 

Objet :	Re: [XML-SIG] raise _exceptions.SAXReaderNotAvailable

X-Authentication-Warning: mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de: martin set sender to martin@v.loewis.de using -f
Lines: 11
User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1
X-Sender: 03047300346-0001@t-dialin.net

Francois-regis Chalaoux <Francois-regis.Chalaoux@sanofi-synthelabo.com> writes:

> On the production machine I got now an error when using the "same"
> xml librairies ?

Did you copy the pyexpat module as well? What happens when you do

>>> import xml.parsers.expat

HTH,
Martin





From Juergen Hermann" <jhe@webde-ag.de  Wed Mar 13 12:42:32 2002
From: Juergen Hermann" <jhe@webde-ag.de (Juergen Hermann)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:42:32 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_R=E9f._:_Re:_[XML-SIG]_raise__exceptions.SAXReaderNotAvailable?=
In-Reply-To: <"020313114246Z.WT06166.  6*/PN=Francois-regis.Chalaoux/O=RESEARCH/PRMD=SANOFI/ADMD=ATLAS/C=FR/"@MHS>
Message-ID: <E16l85R-0005m2-00@smtp.web.de>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:31:50 +0100, Francois-regis Chalaoux wrote:

>However, the cgi, which doesn't work, is call by 'user1' (son of root 
daemon which start Apache) with an environment which may not the same. 
os.environ.items() doesn't give me the LD_LIBRARY_PATH. How to get it 
if a good track ?

You have to PassEnv it in httpd.conf.


Ciao, J=FCrgen

--
J=FCrgen Hermann, Developer (jhe@webde-ag.de)
WEB.DE AG, http://webde-ag.de/




From pyxml@xhaus.com  Wed Mar 13 08:56:03 2002
From: pyxml@xhaus.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:56:03 EST5EDT
Subject: [XML-SIG] Python and DOM
Message-ID: <200203131407.JAA55548@spool7.valueweb.net>

> Cyclops writes its output in XML, which 
> is then translated by Xalan/Xerces to the format required
> by that physics code.  

Norm,

If you're working with Xerces/Xalan for Java, then it might 
be best for you to work in Jython (A java implementation of 
Python), which will give you the flexibility of Python, 
with seamless access to Java objects and classes. This 
would mean that you wouldn't have to learn a new XML/DOM 
API, simply use the Java ones you're already familiar with, 
in jython.

http://www.jython.org/

If you're using Xerces/Xalan for C++, then you might be 
interested to check out the Pirxx and Pyana projects, which 
embed Xerces C++ and Xalan C++, respectively, in CPython.

http://pirxx.sourceforge.net/
http://pyana.sourceforge.net/

Just a thought that might make your task a little easier.

Regards,

Alan Kennedy.



---------------------------------------------
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From dkuhlman@cutter.rexx.com  Wed Mar 13 17:15:02 2002
From: dkuhlman@cutter.rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:15:02 -0800
Subject: [XML-SIG] Python and DOM
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312103746.00b0dff8@popeye.llnl.gov>; from nhs@llnl.gov on Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 10:47:24AM -0800
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312103746.00b0dff8@popeye.llnl.gov>
Message-ID: <20020313091501.A11869@cutter.rexx.com>

Since you are developing a GUI, you may want to look at the
implementation of XMLtreeview.py in wxPython.  In the version that
I downloaded (a few months ago, might have changed since then), the
demo program included XMLtreeview under the "Cool Contribs" demos.

wxPython is at http://www.wxpython.org/

  - Dave

On Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 10:47:24AM -0800, Norman Samuelson wrote:
> We are developing a GUI, named Cyclops, that makes heavy use of XML.  The 
> purpose of the GUI is to edit input files for large physics simulation 
> codes, which have very large sets of input parameters.  The interface is 
> defined in an XML file for each physics code we support.  This allows one 
> GUI to support many physics codes.  Cyclops writes its output in XML, which 
> is then translated by Xalan/Xerces to the format required by that physics 
> code.  The toughest part of the project is writing input translators, codes 
> that read the old text file format and transform it into XML.  We have done 
> some of those translators in Perl, but we are considering Python for the 
> next one.
> 
> One way of doing that is to write the XML directly.  That is a lot of work 
> and can be difficult to maintain.  I would like to try building a DOM tree, 
> then simply let DOM write the tree out in XML.  Is there a DOM interface 
> for Python that would be suitable for that?
> 
> Please reply to me directly as I am not yet a subscriber to the xml-sig.
> 
> 
> - Norm -
> 
> Norman H. Samuelson                         nhs@llnl.gov
> Lawrence Livermore National Lab      925-422-0661
> P.O. Box 808, L-98
> Livermore, CA 94551 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> XML-SIG maillist  -  XML-SIG@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/xml-sig

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
dkuhlman@rexx.com
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman


From martin@v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 13 17:25:51 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 18:25:51 +0100
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?R=81=E9f?=. : Re: [XML-SIG] raise
 _exceptions.SAXReaderNotAvailable
In-Reply-To: <"020313114246Z.WT06166.  6*/PN=Francois-regis.Chalaoux/O=RESEARCH/PRMD=SANOFI/ADMD=ATLAS/C=FR/"@MHS>
References: <"020313114246Z.WT06166.
 6*/PN=Francois-regis.Chalaoux/O=RESEARCH/PRMD=SANOFI/ADMD=ATLAS/C=FR/"@MHS>
Message-ID: <m37kogtm5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Francois-regis Chalaoux <Francois-regis.Chalaoux@sanofi-synthelabo.com> writes:

> Yes, I copied the pyexpat module.  and import xml.parsers.expat is
> working if /usr/local/lib where is libexpat.so.0 is in the
> LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
>
> These tests were realized with the account 'user1' on command line.
>
> However, the cgi, which doesn't work, is call by 'user1' (son of
> root daemon which start Apache) with an environment which may not
> the same. os.environ.items() doesn't give me the
> LD_LIBRARY_PATH. How to get it if a good track ?

I recommend to not using a shared libexpat; instead, I strongly advise
to use the expat sources that come with PyXML (i.e. *not* using the
system's expat).

If that is not acceptable, you can try giving a -R/--rpath option to
the linker when building pyexpat.so. Please see ld(1) for details.

Regards,
Martin



From martin@v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 13 18:05:19 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 19:05:19 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] XPath's reliance on id()
In-Reply-To: <20020311163817.GA15576@vet.uu.nl>
References: <20020311163817.GA15576@vet.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <m3pu28s5r4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Martijn Faassen <faassen@vet.uu.nl> writes:

> Now, it's hard to see how to make this code work without some hashing,
> so we seem to have to rely on *something*. But can't we make it 
> use __hash__ instead of using id? I think I can make this work for
> ParsedXML (in fact I tried and at least it's not giving any errors).

I think this approach (for determining document order) really does
need the notion of identity, so it's hard to believe that this could
actually work.

>   * all DOMs that expect to work with PyXML's xpath need to define 
>     __hash__(). In the simplest case this simply does an id() on the
>    node.

Those DOMs that use Python classes would not need to do anything at
all, right?

>   * we need to alter the code in xpath/Util.py so as not to rely on
>     id() anymore but to use the node objects as hash keys directly. 

Then doing what? What happens if you have two nodes that have the same
hash value, but which are different?

Do you think you could make this work by giving each ParseXML Node a
docIndex attribute? With that, SortByDocOrder would not even attempt
to put node ids into a dictionary.

Regards,
Martin



From faassen@vet.uu.nl  Wed Mar 13 18:24:02 2002
From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:24:02 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] XPath's reliance on id()
In-Reply-To: <m3pu28s5r4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <20020311163817.GA15576@vet.uu.nl> <m3pu28s5r4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20020313182402.GA32025@vet.uu.nl>

Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> Martijn Faassen <faassen@vet.uu.nl> writes:
> 
> > Now, it's hard to see how to make this code work without some hashing,
> > so we seem to have to rely on *something*. But can't we make it 
> > use __hash__ instead of using id? I think I can make this work for
> > ParsedXML (in fact I tried and at least it's not giving any errors).
> 
> I think this approach (for determining document order) really does
> need the notion of identity, so it's hard to believe that this could
> actually work.

Doesn't __hash__ imply there is a notion of identity?

> >   * all DOMs that expect to work with PyXML's xpath need to define 
> >     __hash__(). In the simplest case this simply does an id() on the
> >    node.
> 
> Those DOMs that use Python classes would not need to do anything at
> all, right?

True, if you use hash() that should use with Python classes, unless of
course your objects are really only proxying an underlying database and
multiple objects may proxy the same data (in that case they should
compare equal).

Reading the language reference on hash I do find this phrase on __hash__
that is disturbing, though:

  If a class does not define a __cmp__() method it should not define a 
  __hash__() operation either;

I don't understand why this must be so.

The point is simply that id() is not customizable, and hash() is.

> >   * we need to alter the code in xpath/Util.py so as not to rely on
> >     id() anymore but to use the node objects as hash keys directly. 
> 
> Then doing what? What happens if you have two nodes that have the same
> hash value, but which are different?

I reconsidered later; I simply want to use hash() instead of id. In that
case you don't have a problem with two objects having the same hash value
but are different. If they have the same hash value they're identical.

> Do you think you could make this work by giving each ParseXML Node a
> docIndex attribute? With that, SortByDocOrder would not even attempt
> to put node ids into a dictionary.

I hadn't considered that, but at first glance it seems to be fairly icky to
support this. These ParsedXML documents are usually persistent in the ZODB
and it'd be adding yet another field to it all. Plus DOM manipulations would
mean possible large scale changes of docIndex all over the tree..

Regards,

Martijn



From martin@v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 13 19:57:46 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 20:57:46 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] XPath's reliance on id()
In-Reply-To: <20020313182402.GA32025@vet.uu.nl>
References: <20020311163817.GA15576@vet.uu.nl>
 <m3pu28s5r4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <20020313182402.GA32025@vet.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <m3bsdsme9x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Martijn Faassen <faassen@vet.uu.nl> writes:

> > I think this approach (for determining document order) really does
> > need the notion of identity, so it's hard to believe that this could
> > actually work.
>=20
> Doesn't __hash__ imply there is a notion of identity?

No, it implies equality. Actually, it is the other way 'round:
equality implies equal hash values:

=E2=88=80 x,y =E2=88=88 Python-Object: x =3D y =E2=87=92 hash(x) =3D hash(y)

>   If a class does not define a __cmp__() method it should not define a=20
>   __hash__() operation either;
>=20
> I don't understand why this must be so.

That is surprising indeed; I had expected that this it is the other
way 'round: If you implement __cmp__, you also need to implement
__hash__.

> The point is simply that id() is not customizable, and hash() is.

The point is that hash() is tied to cmp() through the dictionary
implementation, and that conceptionally, hash() maps the large set of
objects to the much smaller set of numbers, in a unidirectional way
(i.e. different objects may have equal hash values). Typically, the
hash of an objects is computed from its state.

> > >   * we need to alter the code in xpath/Util.py so as not to rely on
> > >     id() anymore but to use the node objects as hash keys directly.=20
> >=20
> > Then doing what? What happens if you have two nodes that have the same
> > hash value, but which are different?
>=20
> I reconsidered later; I simply want to use hash() instead of id. In that
> case you don't have a problem with two objects having the same hash value
> but are different. If they have the same hash value they're identical.

Not at all. Consider

<outer>
  <inner/>
  <inner/>
</outer>

The two inner elements may reasonably have the same hash value. They
must not be considered identical, since one is before the other in
document order.

Regards,
Martin


From Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr  Thu Mar 14 08:27:22 2002
From: Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr (Alexandre)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:27:22 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] XPath's reliance on id()
In-Reply-To: <20020313182402.GA32025@vet.uu.nl>
References: <20020311163817.GA15576@vet.uu.nl> <m3pu28s5r4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <20020313182402.GA32025@vet.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <20020314082722.GA2768@orion.logilab.fr>

On Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 07:24:02PM +0100, Martijn Faassen wrote:
 
> I hadn't considered that, but at first glance it seems to be fairly icky to
> support this. These ParsedXML documents are usually persistent in the ZODB
> and it'd be adding yet another field to it all. Plus DOM manipulations would
> mean possible large scale changes of docIndex all over the tree..

I had a discussion with Uche on similar issues a few months ago. He
pointed out that the id could be floats, which means that, to a certain
extent, inserting a node in the middle of the tree didn't require that
the ids of nodes after the inserted one (in document order) had to be
updated. You just have to set the id of the new node to 
0.5*(id_before+id_after). 

Alexandre Fayolle
-- 
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
Narval, the first software agent available as free software (GPL).


From noreply@sourceforge.net  Thu Mar 14 12:06:12 2002
From: noreply@sourceforge.net (noreply@sourceforge.net)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 04:06:12 -0800
Subject: [XML-SIG] [ pyxml-Bugs-529839 ] error in euc-kr document
Message-ID: <E16lTzo-0000UK-00@usw-sf-web3.sourceforge.net>

Bugs item #529839, was opened at 2002-03-14 04:06
You can respond by visiting: 
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=106473&aid=529839&group_id=6473

Category: DOM
Group: None
Status: Open
Resolution: None
Priority: 5
Submitted By: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
Summary: error in euc-kr document

Initial Comment:
test.xml
------------------------------------------
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="euc-kr"?>
<test>ÇѱÛÀÌ ¹«¾ùÀΰí ÇÏ´Ï...</test>

Error message
------------------------------------------
  File "test.py", line 7, in ?
    dom = parseString(xmldoc)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-
packages/_xmlplus/dom/minidom.py", line 965, in 
parseString
    return _doparse(pulldom.parseString, args, kwargs)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-
packages/_xmlplus/dom/minidom.py", line 952, in 
_doparse
    toktype, rootNode = events.getEvent()
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-
packages/_xmlplus/dom/pulldom.py", line 256, in 
getEvent
    self.parser.feed(buf)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-
packages/_xmlplus/sax/expatreader.py", line 148, in 
feed
    self._err_handler.fatalError(exc)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-
packages/_xmlplus/sax/handler.py", line 38, in 
fatalError
    raise exception
xml.sax._exceptions.SAXParseException: <unknown>:2:9: 
not well-formed (invalid token)


I can't english.. ^^;;
This xml document is valid.
But error message is invalid.
Why this error happen?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

You can respond by visiting: 
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=106473&aid=529839&group_id=6473


From faassen@vet.uu.nl  Thu Mar 14 12:27:45 2002
From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:27:45 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] XPath's reliance on id()
In-Reply-To: <m3bsdsme9x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <20020311163817.GA15576@vet.uu.nl> <m3pu28s5r4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <20020313182402.GA32025@vet.uu.nl> <m3bsdsme9x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20020314122745.GA2399@vet.uu.nl>

Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> Martijn Faassen <faassen@vet.uu.nl> writes:
> 
> > > I think this approach (for determining document order) really does
> > > need the notion of identity, so it's hard to believe that this could
> > > actually work.
> > 
> > Doesn't __hash__ imply there is a notion of identity?
> 
> No, it implies equality. Actually, it is the other way 'round:
> equality implies equal hash values:
> 
> ??? x,y ??? Python-Object: x = y ??? hash(x) = hash(y)

This seems to have gotten somewhat mangled here; I get three question
marks and this must've been some symbol?

Anyway, perhaps the notion of equality is what we need; in my mind two
objects can stand in for the same DOM node but not be the same object;
they're equal but not identical.

The notion for equality in DOM nodes is actually supported by the 
DOM level 3 working draft:

"""
isSameNode (introduced in DOM Level 3)
    Returns whether this node is the same node as the given one.
    This method provides a way to determine whether two Node references 
    returned by the implementation reference the same object. When two
    Node references are references to the same object, even if through a
    proxy, the references may be used completely interchangeably, such that
    all attributes have the same values and calling the same DOM method on
    either reference always has exactly the same effect.

    Issue isSameNode-1:
        Do we really want to make this different from equals?
    Resolution: Yes, change name from isIdentical to isSameNode.
       (Telcon 4 Jul 2000).
    Issue isSameNode-2:
       Is this really needed if we provide a unique key?
    Resolution: Yes, because the key is only unique within a document.
       (F2F 2 Mar 2001).
    Issue isSameNode-3:
       Definition of 'sameness' is needed.

The issues are especially interesting, as they're dealing with the same
issues we're dealing with now. If I read the text correctly it also implies
they are thinking of a notion of a unique 'key', similar to the current
id(). This is only implied by some comments in the draft though, and not 
actually specified anywhere.

Then again, I just found out they have a compareTreePosition() method added
to the Node interface that we could use for sorting purposes, I think..

> >   If a class does not define a __cmp__() method it should not define a 
> >   __hash__() operation either;
> > 
> > I don't understand why this must be so.
> 
> That is surprising indeed; I had expected that this it is the other
> way 'round: If you implement __cmp__, you also need to implement
> __hash__.

It does say that too. :)

> > The point is simply that id() is not customizable, and hash() is.
> 
> The point is that hash() is tied to cmp() through the dictionary
> implementation, and that conceptionally, hash() maps the large set of
> objects to the much smaller set of numbers, in a unidirectional way
> (i.e. different objects may have equal hash values). Typically, the
> hash of an objects is computed from its state.

But that is in fact what is needed in this case; I have many different
proxy objects which may all map to the same actual DOM node, so they'd
have the same __hash__. But perhaps the other implications of __hash__
break that. What about supplying a 'key' attribute, anticipating DOM 
level 3 vague implications? :)

> > > >   * we need to alter the code in xpath/Util.py so as not to rely on
> > > >     id() anymore but to use the node objects as hash keys directly. 
> > > 
> > > Then doing what? What happens if you have two nodes that have the same
> > > hash value, but which are different?
> > 
> > I reconsidered later; I simply want to use hash() instead of id. In that
> > case you don't have a problem with two objects having the same hash value
> > but are different. If they have the same hash value they're identical.
> 
> Not at all. Consider
> 
> <outer>
>   <inner/>
>   <inner/>
> </outer>
> 
> The two inner elements may reasonably have the same hash value. They
> must not be considered identical, since one is before the other in
> document order.

I don't think it's reasonable to give those inner nodes the same hash
value at all. They're not the same node, and shouldn't hash the same way.
I don't see any reason to make two different nodes hash the same way just
because they have the same name. I'd like to make two node objects hash
the same way if they represent the same node in the underlying XML 
structure. Then again, perhaps we should just move ahead on compareTreePosition
or something..

Regards,

Martijn



From faassen@vet.uu.nl  Thu Mar 14 12:36:01 2002
From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:36:01 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] XPath's reliance on id()
In-Reply-To: <20020314082722.GA2768@orion.logilab.fr>
References: <20020311163817.GA15576@vet.uu.nl> <m3pu28s5r4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <20020313182402.GA32025@vet.uu.nl> <20020314082722.GA2768@orion.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <20020314123600.GB2399@vet.uu.nl>

Alexandre wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 07:24:02PM +0100, Martijn Faassen wrote:
>  
> > I hadn't considered that, but at first glance it seems to be fairly icky to
> > support this. These ParsedXML documents are usually persistent in the ZODB
> > and it'd be adding yet another field to it all. Plus DOM manipulations would
> > mean possible large scale changes of docIndex all over the tree..
> 
> I had a discussion with Uche on similar issues a few months ago. He
> pointed out that the id could be floats, which means that, to a certain
> extent, inserting a node in the middle of the tree didn't require that
> the ids of nodes after the inserted one (in document order) had to be
> updated. You just have to set the id of the new node to 
> 0.5*(id_before+id_after). 

That'd be an unreliable hack I'd vote against, but the principle is of course
sound; you could make sure to leave some space between the docIndex numbers 
so that most insertions wouldn't result in a recalculation of them all. A 
numbering scheme I've played with that has some nice properties like that
is described here:

http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/454193.html (PDF and PS on the topright side)

Though in fact a far nicer property of this scheme is the ability to
find out whether a node is a descendant of another very very cheaply.
Still, implementing such a thing inside a DOM won't be a very easy exercise,
and I am looking for a quick fix. :)

The issue with proxying nodes is real right now; Martin implies using hash()
wouldn't be the right thing, and though I'm still arguing with him I'm
willing to look at other possibilities. One would be simply to have a special
uniqueKey() method on the Node interface that in the normal case just returns
the id(), and in my case does something more complicated. Would have some
performance implications though -- perhaps it could fall back on id() if
no such method is found, mitigating most of those issues..

Regards,

Martijn



From martin@v.loewis.de  Thu Mar 14 17:43:12 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 18:43:12 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] XPath's reliance on id()
In-Reply-To: <20020314122745.GA2399@vet.uu.nl>
References: <20020311163817.GA15576@vet.uu.nl>
 <m3pu28s5r4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <20020313182402.GA32025@vet.uu.nl>
 <m3bsdsme9x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <20020314122745.GA2399@vet.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <m3ofhryrin.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Martijn Faassen <faassen@vet.uu.nl> writes:

> > ??? x,y ??? Python-Object: x = y ??? hash(x) = hash(y)
> 
> This seems to have gotten somewhat mangled here; I get three question
> marks and this must've been some symbol?

This was an attempt to put FOR ALL, ELEMENT OF, and RIGHT ARROW into
an email message; it seems it failed.

> Anyway, perhaps the notion of equality is what we need; in my mind two
> objects can stand in for the same DOM node but not be the same object;
> they're equal but not identical.

Strictly speaking, the DOM spec does not guarantee equality of nodes.
If anything, it guarantees that identity works.

> The notion for equality in DOM nodes is actually supported by the 
> DOM level 3 working draft:
> 
> """
> isSameNode (introduced in DOM Level 3)

It is the notion of "sameness" that is supported. The Python mapping
could mandate that == for nodes holds iff isSameNode holds, but it
currently doesn't.

Notice that they also have isEqualNode; this is *not* what we want.

> Then again, I just found out they have a compareTreePosition()
> method added to the Node interface that we could use for sorting
> purposes, I think..

Indeed. Then it would be up to the DOM implementation to make that
happen. This sounds like the cleanest approach to me.

> But that is in fact what is needed in this case; I have many different
> proxy objects which may all map to the same actual DOM node, so they'd
> have the same __hash__. But perhaps the other implications of __hash__
> break that. What about supplying a 'key' attribute, anticipating DOM 
> level 3 vague implications? :)

If we mandate DOM3 features, I think we should use the feature that
apparently was explicitly added for XSLT document order:
compareTreePosition.

> I don't think it's reasonable to give those inner nodes the same
> hash value at all. They're not the same node, and shouldn't hash the
> same way.

They are equal nodes (in the sense of isEqualNode), so I see no reason
why the hashes should be different. If I was to implement a hash of a
node, I'd use the formula

def hash(node):
  res = hash(node.nodeType)+hash(node.nodeName)
  for c in node.childNodes:
    res += hash(c)
  return res

> I don't see any reason to make two different nodes hash the same way just
> because they have the same name. 

They have the same name, the same type, and the same content. They
really are equal.

Regards,
Martin


From uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com  Thu Mar 14 22:00:38 2002
From: uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:00:38 -0700
Subject: [XML-SIG] XPath's reliance on id()
In-Reply-To: Message from Martijn Faassen <faassen@vet.uu.nl>
 of "Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:27:45 +0100." <20020314122745.GA2399@vet.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <200203142200.g2EM0c602568@localhost.localdomain>

I wish I had more time to contrib to this thread right now, but...

> Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> > Martijn Faassen <faassen@vet.uu.nl> writes:

> Anyway, perhaps the notion of equality is what we need; in my mind two
> objects can stand in for the same DOM node but not be the same object;
> they're equal but not identical.

No.  We need identity for sure.  Never mind the fact that equality cannot be 
determined without a possible tree-spanning operation, it is also what XPath 
and the DOM require.


> The notion for equality in DOM nodes is actually supported by the 
> DOM level 3 working draft:
> 
> """
> isSameNode (introduced in DOM Level 3)
>     Returns whether this node is the same node as the given one.

isSameNode checks for identity, *not* equality.


-- 
Uche Ogbuji                               Principal Consultant
uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com               +1 720 320 2046
Fourthought, Inc.                         http://Fourthought.com 
4735 East Walnut St, Boulder, CO 80301-2537, USA
XML strategy, XML tools (http://4Suite.org), knowledge management




From uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com  Thu Mar 14 22:01:32 2002
From: uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:01:32 -0700
Subject: [XML-SIG] XPath's reliance on id()
In-Reply-To: Message from martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
 of "14 Mar 2002 18:43:12 +0100." <m3ofhryrin.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <200203142201.g2EM1W302579@localhost.localdomain>

> Martijn Faassen <faassen@vet.uu.nl> writes:
> 
> > > ??? x,y ??? Python-Object: x = y ??? hash(x) = hash(y)
> > 
> > This seems to have gotten somewhat mangled here; I get three question
> > marks and this must've been some symbol?
> 
> This was an attempt to put FOR ALL, ELEMENT OF, and RIGHT ARROW into
> an email message; it seems it failed.

FWIW, this came out just fine on my MUA: EXMH 2.4 on Red Hat 7.2.


-- 
Uche Ogbuji                               Principal Consultant
uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com               +1 720 320 2046
Fourthought, Inc.                         http://Fourthought.com 
4735 East Walnut St, Boulder, CO 80301-2537, USA
XML strategy, XML tools (http://4Suite.org), knowledge management




From faassen@vet.uu.nl  Thu Mar 14 22:40:28 2002
From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:40:28 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] XPath's reliance on id()
In-Reply-To: <m3ofhryrin.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <20020311163817.GA15576@vet.uu.nl> <m3pu28s5r4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <20020313182402.GA32025@vet.uu.nl> <m3bsdsme9x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <20020314122745.GA2399@vet.uu.nl> <m3ofhryrin.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20020314224028.GA4498@vet.uu.nl>

Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> Martijn Faassen <faassen@vet.uu.nl> writes:
[snip]
> > Anyway, perhaps the notion of equality is what we need; in my mind two
> > objects can stand in for the same DOM node but not be the same object;
> > they're equal but not identical.
> 
> Strictly speaking, the DOM spec does not guarantee equality of nodes.
> If anything, it guarantees that identity works.

Okay, I want identity, but I don't want identity of Python objects but
identity of DOM nodes, which can diverge. I think that gives rise to
the confusion.

> > The notion for equality in DOM nodes is actually supported by the 
> > DOM level 3 working draft:
> > 
> > """
> > isSameNode (introduced in DOM Level 3)
> 
> It is the notion of "sameness" that is supported. The Python mapping
> could mandate that == for nodes holds iff isSameNode holds, but it
> currently doesn't.
> 
> Notice that they also have isEqualNode; this is *not* what we want.

Ah, run read that, and that's true; not what we want here.

> > Then again, I just found out they have a compareTreePosition()
> > method added to the Node interface that we could use for sorting
> > purposes, I think..
> 
> Indeed. Then it would be up to the DOM implementation to make that
> happen. This sounds like the cleanest approach to me.

Yes, will have to think about implementing that efficiently..

> > But that is in fact what is needed in this case; I have many different
> > proxy objects which may all map to the same actual DOM node, so they'd
> > have the same __hash__. But perhaps the other implications of __hash__
> > break that. What about supplying a 'key' attribute, anticipating DOM 
> > level 3 vague implications? :)
> 
> If we mandate DOM3 features, I think we should use the feature that
> apparently was explicitly added for XSLT document order:
> compareTreePosition.

Yes, I think I agree. :)

> > I don't think it's reasonable to give those inner nodes the same
> > hash value at all. They're not the same node, and shouldn't hash the
> > same way.
> 
> They are equal nodes (in the sense of isEqualNode), so I see no reason
> why the hashes should be different. If I was to implement a hash of a
> node, I'd use the formula
> 
> def hash(node):
>   res = hash(node.nodeType)+hash(node.nodeName)
>   for c in node.childNodes:
>     res += hash(c)
>   return res
> 
> > I don't see any reason to make two different nodes hash the same way just
> > because they have the same name. 
> 
> They have the same name, the same type, and the same content. They
> really are equal.

Yes, but not the same location, and for me the place of a node is
rather important. But yeah, I can see this definition of equality makes
sense, though I can also see a notion of node equality where position is
part of the equality picture. Still, if the DOM defines equality independent
of position, as it seems to do in level 3, and __hash__ implies the notion of
equality, then ParsedXML's current use of __hash__ is wrong.

And I'll have to think about reasonable implementation of
compareTreePosition(). Any ideas? How do we move ahead with support
for this in XPath and PyXML's DOM implementations? My interest is
primarily in making ParsedXML work well with PyXML's XPath, but I'm willing
to do whatever it takes with PyXML to get there. :)

Regards,

Martijn



From martin@v.loewis.de  Thu Mar 14 23:05:34 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 00:05:34 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] XPath's reliance on id()
In-Reply-To: <20020314224028.GA4498@vet.uu.nl>
References: <20020311163817.GA15576@vet.uu.nl>
 <m3pu28s5r4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <20020313182402.GA32025@vet.uu.nl>
 <m3bsdsme9x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <20020314122745.GA2399@vet.uu.nl>
 <m3ofhryrin.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <20020314224028.GA4498@vet.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <m3u1riagxt.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Martijn Faassen <faassen@vet.uu.nl> writes:

> And I'll have to think about reasonable implementation of
> compareTreePosition(). Any ideas? How do we move ahead with support
> for this in XPath and PyXML's DOM implementations? 

You could use the Util approach of indexing the document. Just attach
the indexing dictionary to the document (since you can always navigate
from any node to the document).

The tricky part will be to outdate the dictionary once the tree
structure changes.

In minidom, I think I might attach a rational number to each node,
with the scheme that Uche suggested (but representing the rational
number as a tuple of integers).

In general, I think Util should first check for compareTreePosition;
if that is not supported, use docIndex; if that also fails,
__IndexDocument.

HTH,
Martin



From youltae@yahoo.com  Thu Mar 14 23:14:59 2002
From: youltae@yahoo.com (English24)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:14:59 +0900
Subject: [XML-SIG] [±¤°í]¼º¹®±âº»¿µ¾î ÀÎÅÍ³Ý °­ÀÇ
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From faassen@vet.uu.nl  Fri Mar 15 10:29:52 2002
From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:29:52 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] XPath's reliance on id()
In-Reply-To: <200203142201.g2EM1W302579@localhost.localdomain>
References: <m3ofhryrin.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <200203142201.g2EM1W302579@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20020315102952.GA6450@vet.uu.nl>

Uche Ogbuji wrote:
> > Martijn Faassen <faassen@vet.uu.nl> writes:
> > 
> > > > ??? x,y ??? Python-Object: x = y ??? hash(x) = hash(y)
> > > 
> > > This seems to have gotten somewhat mangled here; I get three question
> > > marks and this must've been some symbol?
> > 
> > This was an attempt to put FOR ALL, ELEMENT OF, and RIGHT ARROW into
> > an email message; it seems it failed.
> 
> FWIW, this came out just fine on my MUA: EXMH 2.4 on Red Hat 7.2.

I probably should just configure mutt/debian to do something sensible
with those things, and go on adventure in characterset-land. :)

Regards,

Martijn




From jmarant@free.fr  Fri Mar 15 21:11:38 2002
From: jmarant@free.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?J=E9r=F4me?= Marant)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:11:38 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] ["Fernando Tricas =?iso-8859-1?q?Garc=EDa"?=
 <ftricas@amon.cps.unizar.es>] Bug#133548: python2.1-xml:
 /usr/doc/python2.1-xml/xmlproc/xmlproc.html links are not correct
Message-ID: <87g031y1rp.fsf@marant.org>

--=-=-=


Hi,

  A small bug report. Sorry for the delay.

  Cheers,


--=-=-=
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Package: python2.1-xml
Version: 0.7-1
Severity: normal

/usr/doc/python2.1-xml/xmlproc/xmlproc.html links are not correct: they
point to files named in a different way that the ones appearing in the
package. For example:

High-level xmlproc documentation. 
is:
file:/usr/doc/python2.1-xml/xmlproc/tutorial.html
should be (if I'm correct):
file:/usr/doc/python2.1-xml/xmlproc/xmlproc_tut.html

It seems to be bad also in python2.2-xml

Regards,

--
Fernando Tricas


-- System Information
Debian Release: 3.0
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux amon 2.4.12 #2 Sat Dec 1 12:54:19 CET 2001 i586
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=spanish

Versions of packages python2.1-xml depends on:
ii  libc6                         2.2.5-3    GNU C Library: Shared libraries an
ii  python2.1                     2.1.2-2    An interactive object-oriented scr
ii  python2.1-xmlbase             2.1.2-2    XML support included in Python (v2



--=-=-=
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-- 
Jérôme Marant <jerome@marant.org>
              <jerome.marant@free.fr>

http://marant.org
              

--=-=-=--


From jmarant@free.fr  Fri Mar 15 21:28:11 2002
From: jmarant@free.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?J=E9r=F4me?= Marant)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:28:11 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] ["Fernando Tricas =?iso-8859-1?q?Garc=EDa"?=
 <ftricas@amon.cps.unizar.es>] Bug#133548: python2.1-xml:
 /usr/doc/python2.1-xml/xmlproc/xmlproc.html links are not correct
In-Reply-To: <87g031y1rp.fsf@marant.org> (jmarant@free.fr's message of "Fri,
 15 Mar 2002 22:11:38 +0100")
References: <87g031y1rp.fsf@marant.org>
Message-ID: <87adt9y104.fsf@marant.org>

jmarant@free.fr (Jérôme Marant) writes:

> Hi,
>
>   A small bug report. Sorry for the delay.

  Better :

--- doc/xmlproc/xmlproc.html.orig	Fri Mar 15 22:17:54 2002
+++ doc/xmlproc/xmlproc.html	Fri Mar 15 22:21:32 2002
@@ -60,13 +60,13 @@
 </P>
 
 <UL>
-  <LI><A HREF="tutorial.html">High-level xmlproc documentation</A>.
-  <LI><A HREF="cmdline.html">Using the command-line parsers</A>.
-  <LI><A HREF="api-doco.html">Using xmlproc from Python code</A>.
-  <LI><A HREF="dtd-api-doco.html">The DTD API</A>.
-  <LI><A HREF="catalog-doco.html">The catalog file support</A>.
-  <LI><A HREF="dtd-parser-doco.html">The DTD parser</A>.
-  <LI><A HREF="namespace-doco.html">The namespace support</A>.
+  <LI><A HREF="xmlproc_tut.html">High-level xmlproc documentation</A>.
+  <LI><A HREF="xmlproc_cmdline.html">Using the command-line parsers</A>.
+  <LI><A HREF="xmlproc-doco.html">Using xmlproc from Python code</A>.
+  <LI><A HREF="xmlproc-dtd-doco.html">The DTD API</A>.
+  <LI><A HREF="xmlproc-catalog-doco.html">The catalog file support</A>.
+  <LI><A HREF="xmlproc_dtdparser.html">The DTD parser</A>.
+  <LI><A HREF="xmlproc_ns.html">The namespace support</A>.
 </UL>
 
 <P>


  Cheers,

-- 
Jérôme Marant <jerome@marant.org>
              <jerome.marant@free.fr>

http://marant.org
              


From uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com  Sat Mar 16 04:50:14 2002
From: uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:50:14 -0700
Subject: [XML-SIG] Article on Intel Developer Journal that covers PySAX/minidom
Message-ID: <200203160450.g2G4oEt09059@localhost.localdomain>

Another little effort of mine.  Not very in-depth, but yet another pointer for 
newbies.  10 bonus points to anyone who can figure out the junk-free link to 
this thing.

http://cedar.intel.com/cgi-bin/ids.dll/content/content.jsp?cntKey=Generic+Edito
rial%3a%3axml_api_toolbox&cntType=IDS_EDITORIAL&catCode=CAN&path=3


-- 
Uche Ogbuji                               Principal Consultant
uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com               +1 720 320 2046
Fourthought, Inc.                         http://Fourthought.com 
4735 East Walnut St, Boulder, CO 80301-2537, USA
XML strategy, XML tools (http://4Suite.org), knowledge management




From barlow@t-online.de  Mon Mar 18 16:26:15 2002
From: barlow@t-online.de (Steve Barlow)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:26:15 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] validating xhtml
Message-ID: <00ab01c1ce99$a0c94e30$6601a8c0@lofwyr>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01C1CEA2.02307B00
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Everyone,=20
  I think this post maybe should be sent to a different (xhtml) =
newsgroup but I just wanted to check here first.  Sorry if this is the =
wrong place.
  I have a small python function that I use to validate xml, which I =
saved in the module "tools.py":

    from xml.sax import sax2exts
    from xml.dom.ext.reader import Sax2
    from xml.dom.ext import PrettyPrint

    def validateXML(filename):
        p =3D sax2exts.XMLValParserFactory.make_parser()
        reader =3D Sax2.Reader(parser=3Dp)
        dom_object =3D reader.fromUri(filename)
        PrettyPrint(dom_object)

This seems to work fine - and I use it as a quick "stupidity" check when =
I am messing with my XML documents.

       from tools import validateXML
       validateXML('myfile.xml')

Assuming that code is o.k. - here is where the question gets off topic.  =
The problem arises when I try to check XHTML documents. =20

  For example: "test.html" Which is more or less taken from the W3C =
spec:

    <?xml version=3D"1.0" ?>
    <!DOCTYPE html=20
         PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
        "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
    <html xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang=3D"en" =
lang=3D"en">
      <head>
        <title>Virtual Library</title>
      </head>
      <body>
        <p>Moved to <a href=3D"http://vlib.org/">vlib.org</a>.</p>
      </body>
    </html>

Dies a horrible death with messages about "xml:space must have exactly =
the values 'default' and 'preserve'"  Am I correct that this is just my =
lack of understanding about XHTML and has nothing to do with python?  If =
so - thanks for the verification and sorry about the post - I will look =
elsewhere.  Otherwise, what did I screw up?

Thanks
  Steve Barlow

------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01C1CEA2.02307B00
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello Everyone, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp; I think this post maybe should =
be sent to a=20
different (xhtml) newsgroup but I just wanted to check here first.&nbsp; =
Sorry=20
if this is the wrong place.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp; I have a small python function =
that I use to=20
validate xml, which I&nbsp;saved in the module "tools.py":</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; from xml.sax import=20
sax2exts<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; from xml.dom.ext.reader import=20
Sax2<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; from xml.dom.ext import =
PrettyPrint</FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; def=20
validateXML(filename):<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;p =3D=20
sax2exts.XMLValParserFactory.make_parser()<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
reader =3D =
Sax2.Reader(parser=3Dp)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
dom_object =3D=20
reader.fromUri(filename)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
PrettyPrint(dom_object)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This seems to work fine - and I use it =
as a quick=20
"stupidity" check when I am messing with my XML documents.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; from =
tools import=20
validateXML</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
validateXML('myfile.xml')</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Assuming that code is o.k. - here is =
where the=20
question gets off topic.&nbsp; The problem arises when I try to check =
XHTML=20
documents.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp; For example: "test.html" Which =
is more or=20
less taken from the W3C spec:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;?xml =
version=3D"1.0"=20
?&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;!DOCTYPE html=20
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD =
XHTML 1.0=20
Strict//EN"<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "<A=20
href=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">http://www.w3.=
org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd</A>"&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&lt;html xmlns=3D"<A=20
href=3D"http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml</A>"=20
xml:lang=3D"en" lang=3D"en"&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;=20
&lt;head&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&lt;title&gt;Virtual=20
Library&lt;/title&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;=20
&lt;/head&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&lt;body&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;p&gt;Moved to &lt;a href=3D"<A=20
href=3D'http://vlib.org/">vlib.org</a>.</p'>http://vlib.org/"&gt;vlib.org=
&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p</A>&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp; &lt;/body&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;/html&gt;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dies a horrible death with messages =
about=20
"xml:space must have exactly the values 'default' and 'preserve'"&nbsp; =
Am I=20
correct that this is just my&nbsp;lack of understanding about XHTML and =
has=20
nothing to do with python?&nbsp; If so - thanks for the verification and =
sorry=20
about the post - I will look elsewhere.&nbsp; Otherwise, what did I =
screw=20
up?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp; Steve =
Barlow</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01C1CEA2.02307B00--



From barlow@t-online.de  Mon Mar 18 17:25:57 2002
From: barlow@t-online.de (Steve Barlow)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:25:57 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] re my post
Message-ID: <00eb01c1cea1$f75a95d0$6601a8c0@lofwyr>

Geez - sorry about the stupid HTML format message post - my mistake.

Steve Barlow



From martin@v.loewis.de  Mon Mar 18 18:46:56 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 19:46:56 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] validating xhtml
In-Reply-To: <00ab01c1ce99$a0c94e30$6601a8c0@lofwyr>
References: <00ab01c1ce99$a0c94e30$6601a8c0@lofwyr>
Message-ID: <m3hendg1cv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

barlow@t-online.de (Steve Barlow) writes:

> Dies a horrible death with messages about "xml:space must have
> exactly the values 'default' and 'preserve'" Am I correct that this
> is just my lack of understanding about XHTML and has nothing to do
> with python?

Yes on the second part, probably no on the first part. xmlproc (the
validating parser) finds a declaration of a xml:space attribute in the
XHTML DTDs it doesn't like.

This is certainly not your fault - you did not write the DTD. Further
analysis would be needed whether the fault is with xmlproc, or with
the DTD. Don't be too impressed that the DTD is published by the W3C -
even they may make errors.

I recall vaguely that the definition of xml:space in the XML spec is
somewhat ambiguous, and that the W3C eventually took a different
interpretation than xmlproc. However, I also vaguely recall that this
difference was fixed in xmlproc. So the question is - what version of
PyXML are you using?

Regards,
Martin


From barlow@t-online.de  Mon Mar 18 18:52:25 2002
From: barlow@t-online.de (Steve Barlow)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:52:25 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] validating xhtml
References: <00ab01c1ce99$a0c94e30$6601a8c0@lofwyr> <m3hendg1cv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <013601c1ceae$0d1c62c0$6601a8c0@lofwyr>

Hello Martin,
  I was using PyXML 0.6.6 and upgraded on the advice from Sylvain Thenault
to PyXML 0.7.  Probelm solved - it seems to work fine now.  Thanks for the
reply - I would have tried upgraded based on your reply too.

Steve Barlow

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin v. Loewis" <martin@v.loewis.de>
To: "Steve Barlow" <barlow@t-online.de>
Cc: <xml-sig@python.org>
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: [XML-SIG] validating xhtml


> barlow@t-online.de (Steve Barlow) writes:
>
> > Dies a horrible death with messages about "xml:space must have
> > exactly the values 'default' and 'preserve'" Am I correct that this
> > is just my lack of understanding about XHTML and has nothing to do
> > with python?
>
> Yes on the second part, probably no on the first part. xmlproc (the
> validating parser) finds a declaration of a xml:space attribute in the
> XHTML DTDs it doesn't like.
>
> This is certainly not your fault - you did not write the DTD. Further
> analysis would be needed whether the fault is with xmlproc, or with
> the DTD. Don't be too impressed that the DTD is published by the W3C -
> even they may make errors.
>
> I recall vaguely that the definition of xml:space in the XML spec is
> somewhat ambiguous, and that the W3C eventually took a different
> interpretation than xmlproc. However, I also vaguely recall that this
> difference was fixed in xmlproc. So the question is - what version of
> PyXML are you using?
>
> Regards,
> Martin



From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de  Tue Mar 19 10:47:36 2002
From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:47:36 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [XML-SIG] Preserving XML and DocType declaration attributes using DOM
Message-ID: <1016534856.3c971748db983@webmail.in-berlin.de>

Hi, I have something like the DOM code below, where I don't succedd in
getting at the doctype attributes. I'm trying to read an XML file with 
DOM, manipulate it and save it to a new file... The PrettyPrint function
seems not to preserve the attributes of the XML and doctype declarations. 

Is there some other canonical way of doing this, maybe? Or is it an
issue with the Python 2.2 and PyXML 0.7 I'm using?

Thanks,

Dinu



    """<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1" standalone="no"?>
    <!DOCTYPE document SYSTEM "doc.dtd">

    ...
    """

    from xml.dom.ext.reader.Sax2 import FromXmlStream
    from xml.dom.ext import PrettyPrint

    path = ... # see snippet above
    doc = FromXmlStream(path)
    dt = doc.doctype

    print dt.name, dt.systemId, dt.publicId 
    # gives: document  None
    print map(type, (dt.name, dt.systemId, dt.publicId)) 
    # gives: [<type 'unicode'>, <type 'str'>, <type 'NoneType'>]

    PrettyPrint(doc)
    # gives:
    <?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8'?>
    <!DOCTYPE document>
    ...



From martin@v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 19 20:36:51 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 21:36:51 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Preserving XML and DocType declaration attributes using DOM
In-Reply-To: <1016534856.3c971748db983@webmail.in-berlin.de>
References: <1016534856.3c971748db983@webmail.in-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <m3wuw8wazg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Dinu Gherman <gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de> writes:

> Hi, I have something like the DOM code below, where I don't succedd in
> getting at the doctype attributes. I'm trying to read an XML file with 
> DOM, manipulate it and save it to a new file... The PrettyPrint function
> seems not to preserve the attributes of the XML and doctype declarations. 
> 
> Is there some other canonical way of doing this, maybe? Or is it an
> issue with the Python 2.2 and PyXML 0.7 I'm using?

To my knowledge, the DOM, as specified, does not support this kind of
operation (atleast not in DOM level 2). Neither does any of the Python
DOM implementations provide this as an extension.

If you happen to know what the document type declaration should have
been in the document, you can easily write it back out when printing
the document.

If you need roundtrip support for any kind of document type, you best
select a parser that both
a) passes document type fragments to the application, and
b) can be used to build a DOM tree.

You would then need to hook into the DOM building process, forking the
DTD data into a separate object.

Notice that, in general, this is a tricky problem: DTDs are *very*
expressive, with conditional statements etc, so that an object
representing the full grammatical structure of a DTD would be quite
sophisticated.

If you know that there will never be an internal DTD subset, the
problem is simplified significantly, as you only need to store public
and system identifiers, and root element name.

Regards,
Martin


From veillard@redhat.com  Tue Mar 19 22:18:32 2002
From: veillard@redhat.com (Daniel Veillard)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:18:32 -0500
Subject: [XML-SIG] Preserving XML and DocType declaration attributes using DOM
In-Reply-To: <m3wuw8wazg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>; from martin@v.loewis.de on Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 09:36:51PM +0100
References: <1016534856.3c971748db983@webmail.in-berlin.de> <m3wuw8wazg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20020319171832.V27396@redhat.com>

On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 09:36:51PM +0100, Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> Dinu Gherman <gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de> writes:
> 
> > Hi, I have something like the DOM code below, where I don't succedd in
> > getting at the doctype attributes. I'm trying to read an XML file with 
> > DOM, manipulate it and save it to a new file... The PrettyPrint function
> > seems not to preserve the attributes of the XML and doctype declarations. 
> > 
> > Is there some other canonical way of doing this, maybe? Or is it an
> > issue with the Python 2.2 and PyXML 0.7 I'm using?
> 
> To my knowledge, the DOM, as specified, does not support this kind of
> operation (atleast not in DOM level 2). Neither does any of the Python
> DOM implementations provide this as an extension.

  libxml2 preserves those informations, the python bindings don't
provide DOM in a strict sense but provide an equivalent (larger)
API.
   http://xmlsoft.org/python.html

Daniel

-- 
Daniel Veillard      | Red Hat Network https://rhn.redhat.com/
veillard@redhat.com  | libxml GNOME XML XSLT toolkit  http://xmlsoft.org/
http://veillard.com/ | Rpmfind RPM search engine http://rpmfind.net/


From mike@skew.org  Wed Mar 20 08:28:35 2002
From: mike@skew.org (Mike Brown)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:28:35 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [XML-SIG] validating xhtml
In-Reply-To: <m3hendg1cv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> "from Martin v. Loewis
 at Mar 18, 2002 07:46:56 pm"
Message-ID: <200203200828.g2K8SZa74498@skew.org>

Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> This is certainly not your fault - you did not write the DTD. Further
> analysis would be needed whether the fault is with xmlproc, or with
> the DTD. Don't be too impressed that the DTD is published by the W3C -
> even they may make errors.

I think it was an error they decided to live with, by pretending that it was
what they intended to be valid all along. 

XML 1.0 section 2.10 said, of xml:space:

   When declared, it must be given as an enumerated type 
   whose only possible values are "default" and "preserve". 

and the example given was merely this:

   <!ATTLIST poem   xml:space (default|preserve) 'preserve'>

But that same section in XML 1.0 Second Edition says this:

   When declared, it must be given as an enumerated type
   whose values are one or both of "default" and "preserve". 

and adds another example:

  <!ATTLIST pre xml:space (preserve) #FIXED 'preserve'>

It's rather unfortunate for a "clarification", as it is obviously more of an
outright change that is not truly backward compatible -- any self-respecting
parser would enforce checking for "(default|preserve)" because it's a "must"
-- but there you go.

   - Mike
____________________________________________________________________________
  mike j. brown                   |  xml/xslt: http://skew.org/xml/
  denver/boulder, colorado, usa   |  personal: http://hyperreal.org/~mike/


From dovw@jazo.org.il  Wed Mar 20 08:42:30 2002
From: dovw@jazo.org.il (Dov Winer)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:42:30 +0200
Subject: [XML-SIG] Please join the Jewish Agency's new online directory
Message-ID: <SOHNUTJUDAICCjnZS0800000b43@jajz-ed.org.il>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_2D08_01C1CFFB.EF498BC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Shalom, 

My name is Dov Winer. I am the manager of eJewish.info, a new initiative
by the Board of Governors of the Jewish Agency. 

The main purpose of our initiative is to establish a shared market
directory for Jewish information, services and products. A market that
will enable relevant publishers and suppliers to enhance the visibility
of their web-based offerings, while achieving better economies of scale.


As you maintain a collection of web-based Jewish resources, I would like
to cordially invite you to join our directory. Joining is completely
free and will only take a few minutes of your time. 

To join, please visit our website at www.eJewish.info
<http://www.ejewish.info/main/inviteRedirect.asp?InID=4748&RandID=77885>
and click on the "Add a collection" link located on the left-hand side
of your screen. This will bring you to our registration page and enable
you to create a unique username and password for your organization. Once
you've registered, just follow the directions and add your online
resources and products to our directory. 

You will be able to return and modify your information at any time using
your unique username and password. If you need any additional
information or assistance, please feel free to contact me. 

Thank you and best regards, 

Dov Winer
Director - eJewish.info
dovw@jazo.org.il <mailto:dovw@jazo.org.il>  

P.S.
Through an agreement between eJewish.info and the Open Directory Project
(DMOZ.org), any site registered in our directory will automatically be
included in the ODP's directory and indexed by numerous leading search
engines such as Yahoo and Google. This should increase your resources'
visibility not only on our site, but across the entire Internet as well.

 

------=_NextPart_000_2D08_01C1CFFB.EF498BC0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<body bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">
<table align=3Dcenter cellpadding=3D2 cellspacing=3D0 width=3D"95%" =
border=3D0>
Shalom,
<p>
My name is Dov Winer. I am the manager of eJewish.info, a new initiative =
by the Board of Governors of the Jewish Agency.
<p>
The main purpose of our initiative is to establish a shared market =
directory for Jewish information, services and products.  A market that =
will enable relevant publishers and suppliers to enhance the visibility =
of their web-based offerings, while achieving better economies of scale.
<p>
As you maintain a collection of web-based Jewish resources, I would like =
to cordially invite you to join our directory. Joining is completely =
free and will only take a few minutes of your time.
<p>
To join, please visit our website at <a =
href=3D"http://www.ejewish.info/main/inviteRedirect.asp?InID=3D4748&RandI=
D=3D77885">www.eJewish.info</a> and click on the "Add a collection" link =
located on the left-hand side of your screen. This will bring you to our =
registration page and enable you to create a unique username and =
password for your organization. Once you've registered, just follow the =
directions and add your online resources and products to our directory.=20
<p>
You will be able to return and modify your information at any time using =
your unique username and password. If you need any additional =
information or assistance, please feel free to contact me.
<p>
Thank you and best regards,
<p>
Dov Winer<br>
Director - eJewish.info<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:dovw@jazo.org.il">dovw@jazo.org.il</a>
<p>
P.S.<br>
Through an agreement between eJewish.info and the Open Directory Project =
(DMOZ.org), any site registered in our directory will automatically be =
included in the ODP's directory and indexed by numerous leading search =
engines such as Yahoo and Google.
This should increase your resources' visibility not only on our site, =
but across the entire Internet as well.=20
</td>
</tr>
</table>

<img =
src=3D"http://www.ejewish.info/main/inviteRead.asp?InID=3D4748&RandID=3D7=
7885" height=3D1 width=3D1 border=3D0>

</body>
</html>

------=_NextPart_000_2D08_01C1CFFB.EF498BC0--


From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de  Wed Mar 20 09:10:14 2002
From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:10:14 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [XML-SIG] Preserving XML and DocType declaration attributes using DOM
In-Reply-To: <m3wuw8wazg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <1016534856.3c971748db983@webmail.in-berlin.de> <m3wuw8wazg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1016615414.3c9851f651c1d@webmail.in-berlin.de>

"Martin v. Loewis" <martin@v.loewis.de>:

> To my knowledge, the DOM, as specified, does not support this kind of
> operation (atleast not in DOM level 2). Neither does any of the Python
> DOM implementations provide this as an extension.

I read about some limits, but I'm surprised to see that I don't seem to
have access to the systemId and publicId attributes (in my example I had
expected systemId="doc.dtd", but got ""):

    # doc contains this: <!DOCTYPE document SYSTEM "doc.dtd">
    doc = FromXmlStream(path) 
    dt = doc.doctype 
 
    print dt.name, dt.systemId, dt.publicId  
    # gives: document  None 
    print map(type, (dt.name, dt.systemId, dt.publicId))  
    # gives: [<type 'unicode'>, <type 'str'>, <type 'NoneType'>] 


> If you happen to know what the document type declaration should have
> been in the document, you can easily write it back out when printing
> the document.
> 
> If you need roundtrip support for any kind of document type, you best
> select a parser that both
> a) passes document type fragments to the application, and
> b) can be used to build a DOM tree.
> 
> You would then need to hook into the DOM building process, forking the
> DTD data into a separate object.


I thought of using a second SAX-parse to locate the position of the
document root element and prefix the DOM with it. After an hour of
fiddling with all sorts of handlers I've given up and wrote the 
following very pragmatic function that does what I want it to do:

def getXmlAndDoctypeDeclaration(path, rootElementName="document"):
    """Extract XML and DOCTYPE declaration header from an XML file.

    Uses a *very* pragmatic approach ignoring all available PyXML
    goodies...
    """
    for length in (100, 1000, 10000, -1):
        buff = open(path).read(length)
        elem = "<%s" % rootElementName
        if type(elem) != type(''):
            # assume Unicode
            elem = elem.encode('ascii')
        pos = string.find(buff, elem)
        if pos >= 0:
            break

    msg = "Root element named '%s' not found!"
    assert pos >= 0, msg % rootElementName
    return string.strip(buff[:pos])


> Notice that, in general, this is a tricky problem: DTDs are *very*
> expressive, with conditional statements etc, so that an object
> representing the full grammatical structure of a DTD would be quite
> sophisticated.
> 
> If you know that there will never be an internal DTD subset, the
> problem is simplified significantly, as you only need to store public
> and system identifiers, and root element name.

Yes, this is the case for me. But I'll also add the XML declaration
attributes, version, encoding and standalone...

Thanks again!

Dinu


From jedp@ilm.com  Thu Mar 21 20:18:45 2002
From: jedp@ilm.com (Jed Parsons)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:18:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [XML-SIG] xml.dom, Ranges, and DocumentFragments
Message-ID: <200203212018.MAA67903@ocean.lucasdigital.com>

Hi, all,

I'm looking for a way to display diffs between two xml files as
reported by CVS.  I've been phrasing the problem this way in my mind:
Given an XML document, take a fragment of that document and find its
root container.

Such a fragment does not necessarily qualify as a DOM2 "Range," since
it might not fall between a pair of boundary points.  But since the
fragment, its context in the original document, and the entire
document itself are given, it (seems like it) should be possible to
"spread" the fragment out at each end to a proper boundary point.

Does anyone know of any solutions already out there?  I've sought, but
have not found.  (I'm also new to the mysteries of DOM, so pardon any
foolish questions :-)

Many thanks in advance for any advice.  Cheers,

Jed

(And pardon the Perl sig :-)

--
Jed Parsons       Industrial Light + Magic  (415) 448-2974 
             
grep(do{for(ord){(!$_&&print"$s\n")||(($O+=(($_-1)%6+1)and
grep(vec($s,$O++,1)=1,1..int(($_-6*6-1)/6))))}},(split(//,
"++,++2-27,280,481=1-7.1++2,800+++2,8310/1+4131+1++2,80\0.  What!?"))); 



From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr  Fri Mar 22 12:41:29 2002
From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:41:29 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [XML-SIG] xml.dom, Ranges, and DocumentFragments
In-Reply-To: <200203212018.MAA67903@ocean.lucasdigital.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203221340370.9787-100000@aries.logilab.fr>

Hi,

> I'm looking for a way to display diffs between two xml files as
> reported by CVS.

I'm not sure this fits your needs, but it may be worth it to take a look
at our xmldiff : http://www.logilab.org/xmldiff/

Hope this helps,

-- 
Nicolas Chauvat

http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France)



From dkuhlman@cutter.rexx.com  Sat Mar 23 01:14:51 2002
From: dkuhlman@cutter.rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:14:51 -0800
Subject: [XML-SIG] ANNOUNCE: SWIG XML extension
In-Reply-To: <3C86C337.C4427A83@zolera.com>; from rsalz@zolera.com on Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 08:32:39PM -0500
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203061519360.1248-100000@hugh.burdenslanding.org> <3C86C337.C4427A83@zolera.com>
Message-ID: <20020322171451.A70720@cutter.rexx.com>

This package provides an extension to SWIG that enables SWIG to
generate XML (instead of Python code, Perl code, Java code, etc).
The generated XML code can serve as input to a code generator, a
reporting program, an interface analysis program, etc, possibly
written in Python.

It is, I admit, a bit immature at this  stage. But, it still
captures (in XML) much of the information you might be interested
in.

Also included in this package is a Python module that can parse the
XML output from the SWIG extension and create a tree of Python
objects that represent the SWIG XML. Note that this Python module
was generated by generateDS.py.  (Available at
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman)

This SWIG XML extension requires the CVS development version of
SWIG.

You can find the files needed to build the SWIG XML extension at
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman (look for "swigxml").

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
dkuhlman@rexx.com
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman


From uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com  Sat Mar 23 19:51:13 2002
From: uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 12:51:13 -0700
Subject: [XML-SIG] 4Suite 0.12.0a2 released
Message-ID: <1016913080.9287.11412.camel@borgia.local>

Actually, the alphas were "released" yesterday morning, but no one was
able to get to the announcement.

0.12.0a2 ia available now from Sourceforge and ftp.4suite.org

ftp://ftp.4suite.org/pub/4Suite/

Sources:

ftp://ftp.4suite.org/pub/4Suite/4Suite-0.12.0a2.tar.gz

Windows installer:

ftp://ftp.4suite.org/pub/4Suite/4Suite-0.12.0a2.win32-py2.1.exe
ftp://ftp.4suite.org/pub/4Suite/4Suite-0.12.0a2.win32-py2.2.exe

(there is no Python 2.0 exe for Windows due to packaging problems)

Windows zip:

ftp://ftp.4suite.org/pub/4Suite/4Suite-0.12.0a2.zip


You can also get the files on Sourceforge:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/foursuite/
https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=39954


IMPORTANT alpha release notes
-----------------------------

PyXML 0.7 is REQUIRED for Python 2.1.x on Windows because of a bug in
pyexpat.  In general, Python 2.2. is recommended for Windows users.

If you use the FlatFile driver for the repository, you must specify an
additional environment variable, FTSS_FLAT_FILE_ROOT, which is the
directory in which to put the flat file database files.  Feel free to
set this to a spot in your 4Suite share directory, for example,

/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/Ft/Share/Data

or

C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Ft\Share\Data


-- 
Uche Ogbuji                               Principal Consultant
uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com               +1 720 320 2046
Fourthought, Inc.                         http://Fourthought.com 
4735 East Walnut St, Boulder, CO 80301-2537, USA
XML strategy, XML tools (http://4Suite.org), knowledge management



From uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com  Sun Mar 24 05:36:21 2002
From: uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 22:36:21 -0700
Subject: [XML-SIG] Re: [4suite] 4Suite 0.12.0a2 released
In-Reply-To: <1016913080.9287.11412.camel@borgia.local>
References: <1016913080.9287.11412.camel@borgia.local>
Message-ID: <1016948187.29634.376.camel@borgia.local>

On Sat, 2002-03-23 at 12:51, Uche Ogbuji wrote:
> Actually, the alphas were "released" yesterday morning, but no one was
> able to get to the announcement.
> 
> 0.12.0a2 ia available now from Sourceforge and ftp.4suite.org

Note that if you had a 0.12.0a1 repository installed, you will have to
drop the databases (probably ft__xmlserver) before re-initializing.

If you have data you need to keep, export (4ss export), and re-import
(4ss install setup.xml).


-- 
Uche Ogbuji                               Principal Consultant
uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com               +1 720 320 2046
Fourthought, Inc.                         http://Fourthought.com 
4735 East Walnut St, Boulder, CO 80301-2537, USA
XML strategy, XML tools (http://4Suite.org), knowledge management



From joonas@olen.to  Sun Mar 24 15:54:45 2002
From: joonas@olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:54:45 +0200
Subject: [XML-SIG] Adding update and has_key methods to xml.dom.minidom.NamedNodeMap
Message-ID: <3C9DF6C5.4B2631D6@olen.to>

Is there some particular reason why xml.dom.minidom.NamedNodeMap lacks
many methods that builtin-type dics has. For example "update"-method
would be quite useful for xml manipulation purposes. Here's a patch that
adds update and has_key methods to xml.dom.minidom.NamedNodeMap. What do
you people think? Should it be committed?

diff -c -r1.45 minidom.py
*** minidom.py  15 Mar 2002 14:37:23 -0000      1.45
--- minidom.py  24 Mar 2002 15:58:01 -0000
***************
*** 410,415 ****
--- 410,425 ----
      def get(self, name, value = None):
          return self._attrs.get(name, value)

+     def update(self, updatedict):
+         for k, v in updatedict.items():
+             self[k] = v
+
+     def has_key(self, key):
+         return self._attrs.has_key(key)
+
+     def has_keyNS(self, key):
+         return self._attrsNS.has_key(key)
+
      def __len__(self):
          return self.length


From vlindberg@verio.net  Tue Mar 26 18:44:13 2002
From: vlindberg@verio.net (VanL)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:44:13 -0700
Subject: [XML-SIG] Where is xml.dom.utils?
Message-ID: <3CA0C17D.1020308@verio.net>

Hello,

I recently started to play with XML, and I wanted to try it with python. 
 I've got python2.1 and 2.2, and I installed the .7 release of  the 
pyxml package.

Nevertheless, some example code fails:

 >>> from xml.dom.utils import FileReader
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named utils

Where can I get that module?

Thanks,

Van



From martin@v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 26 19:34:48 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 20:34:48 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
Message-ID: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Would anybody object if Python 1.5 is not supported in future PyXML
releases anymore? If so, this is the time to speak up; please be
specific as to what your needs are.

Thanks,
Martin



From martin@v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 26 19:36:14 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:36:14 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Preparing 0.7.1
Message-ID: <200203261936.g2QJaEM01840@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

I'll plan to release PyXML 0.7.1 shortly. If anybody wants to see
last-minute changes in the release, please let me know.

Regards,
Martin



From martin@v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 26 19:40:00 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 20:40:00 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Where is xml.dom.utils?
In-Reply-To: <3CA0C17D.1020308@verio.net>
References: <3CA0C17D.1020308@verio.net>
Message-ID: <m3hen3yv73.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

VanL <vlindberg@verio.net> writes:

> Nevertheless, some example code fails:
> 
>  >>> from xml.dom.utils import FileReader
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ImportError: No module named utils
> 
> Where can I get that module?

It has been dropped in PyXML 0.6. If you need it, you need to install
0.5.5. However, I recommend to port it to a more recent version.  Most
likely, something like xml.dom.minidom.parse or
xml.dom.ext.reader.Sax2.From* would be the proper replacement.

Regards,
Martin



From fdrake@acm.org  Tue Mar 26 19:47:50 2002
From: fdrake@acm.org (Fred L. Drake, Jr.)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:47:50 -0500
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <15520.53350.293764.624649@grendel.zope.com>

Martin v. Loewis writes:
 > Would anybody object if Python 1.5 is not supported in future PyXML
 > releases anymore? If so, this is the time to speak up; please be
 > specific as to what your needs are.

No objection from me.  I thought we'd tossed that a while ago.  ;-)


  -Fred

-- 
Fred L. Drake, Jr.  <fdrake at acm.org>
PythonLabs at Zope Corporation


From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de  Tue Mar 26 21:13:57 2002
From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:13:57 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1017177237.3ca0e495c869a@webmail.in-berlin.de>

"Martin v. Loewis" <martin@v.loewis.de>:

> Would anybody object if Python 1.5 is not supported in future PyXML
> releases anymore? If so, this is the time to speak up; please be
> specific as to what your needs are.

Well, I'm not sure I care, but why *should* it be dropped?

Dinu


From martin@v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 26 20:25:58 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 21:25:58 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <15520.53350.293764.624649@grendel.zope.com>
References: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <15520.53350.293764.624649@grendel.zope.com>
Message-ID: <m3hen3xei1.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Fred L. Drake, Jr." <fdrake@acm.org> writes:

> No objection from me.  I thought we'd tossed that a while ago.  ;-)

Did we :-? I guess I should consult the archives, then...

Regards,
Martin


From martin@v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 26 22:35:50 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 23:35:50 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <1017177237.3ca0e495c869a@webmail.in-berlin.de>
References: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <1017177237.3ca0e495c869a@webmail.in-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <m3zo0vyn21.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Dinu Gherman <gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de> writes:

> > Would anybody object if Python 1.5 is not supported in future PyXML
> > releases anymore? If so, this is the time to speak up; please be
> > specific as to what your needs are.
> 
> Well, I'm not sure I care, but why *should* it be dropped?

For most part, it would not be actively dropped. Instead, we'd just
remove the restriction that new code must work with 1.5, and I would
stop producing binaries for 1.5, and stop testing with 1.5 - this is
why I'm interested in that (reduction of workload).

For the specific case of pyexpat, I'd like to remove the #ifdef maze
in which each Python release added its own fragments; this is becoming
unmaintainable.

Regards,
Martin



From teg@redhat.com  Wed Mar 27 00:44:44 2002
From: teg@redhat.com (Trond Eivind =?iso-8859-1?q?Glomsr=F8d?=)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 19:44:44 -0500
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <xuyn0wu4z5v.fsf@halden.devel.redhat.com>

martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) writes:

> Would anybody object if Python 1.5 is not supported in future PyXML
> releases anymore? If so, this is the time to speak up; please be
> specific as to what your needs are.

We still ship Python 1.5. as the default python, and will be for a
little while longer... we can't switch python until the next major
release, due to compatibility concerns.

--=20
Trond Eivind Glomsr=F8d
Red Hat, Inc.


From r.salz@verizon.net  Wed Mar 27 00:55:53 2002
From: r.salz@verizon.net (Rich Salz)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:55:53 -0500
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
References: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>	<1017177237.3ca0e495c869a@webmail.in-berlin.de> <m3zo0vyn21.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3CA11899.8040601@verizon.net>

>Well, I'm not sure I care, but why *should* it be dropped?

The code can get a lot cleaner by use of things like list comprehensions.

> For the specific case of pyexpat, I'd like to remove the #ifdef maze
> in which each Python release added its own fragments; this is becoming
> unmaintainable.

Once I get my home linux box back, I'll take a look at this, too.  It 
would be nice if we could help the expat.sf.net folks (hi fred :) make a 
library and just use theirs.
	/r$


> 
> Regards,
> Martin
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> XML-SIG maillist  -  XML-SIG@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/xml-sig
> 




From fdrake@acm.org  Wed Mar 27 01:40:48 2002
From: fdrake@acm.org (Fred L. Drake, Jr.)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:40:48 -0500
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <xuyn0wu4z5v.fsf@halden.devel.redhat.com>
References: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <xuyn0wu4z5v.fsf@halden.devel.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <15521.8992.948675.321052@grendel.zope.com>

Trond Eivind Glomsr=F8d writes:
 > We still ship Python 1.5. as the default python, and will be for a
 > little while longer... we can't switch python until the next major
 > release, due to compatibility concerns.

Please bring the specific concerns up on the python-dev list, or file
bug reports on SourceForge if appropriate:

=09http://sourceforge.net/projects/python/

I think a number of projects are having a hard time maintaining
software for the older versions of Python that see so little use among
active developers.


  -Fred

--=20
Fred L. Drake, Jr.  <fdrake at acm.org>
PythonLabs at Zope Corporation


From teg@redhat.com  Wed Mar 27 02:32:15 2002
From: teg@redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Trond_Eivind_Glomsr=F8d?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:32:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <15521.8992.948675.321052@grendel.zope.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203262126080.3993-100000@halden.devel.redhat.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:

>=20
> Trond Eivind Glomsr=F8d writes:
>  > We still ship Python 1.5. as the default python, and will be for a
>  > little while longer... we can't switch python until the next major
>  > release, due to compatibility concerns.
>=20
> Please bring the specific concerns up on the python-dev list

No point, they aren't compatible. Since modules aren't compatible, we=20
don't upgrade until the next major release when we'll use whatever is=20
current at the time for the next major series. (e.g. if we had a=20
hypothetical 8.x series and 8.0 had 2.2, the rest of them would have 2.2=20
as well). It's not a bug, it has just evolved a bit.=20

--=20
Trond Eivind Glomsr=F8d
Red Hat, Inc.



From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de  Wed Mar 27 05:59:32 2002
From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:59:32 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <m3zo0vyn21.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <1017177237.3ca0e495c869a@webmail.in-berlin.de> <m3zo0vyn21.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1017208772.3ca15fc4bec9c@webmail.in-berlin.de>

"Martin v. Loewis" <martin@v.loewis.de>:

> Dinu Gherman <gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de> writes:
> 
> > Well, I'm not sure I care, but why *should* it be dropped?
> 
> For most part, it would not be actively dropped. Instead, we'd just
> remove the restriction that new code must work with 1.5

Well, that is enough to make new versions of PyXML incompatible with 
Python 1.5, isn't it? If so, this measure probably does qualify as
"actively dropped support for 1.5".

> [...] and I would
> stop producing binaries for 1.5, and stop testing with 1.5 - this is
> why I'm interested in that (reduction of workload).
> 
> For the specific case of pyexpat, I'd like to remove the #ifdef maze
> in which each Python release added its own fragments; this is becoming
> unmaintainable.

I guess, that's the bullet to bite in case of frequent releases. ;-)

Rich Salz <r.salz@verizon.net>:

> >Well, I'm not sure I care, but why *should* it be dropped?
> 
> The code can get a lot cleaner by use of things like list
> comprehensions.

Isn't that a highly subjective argument? For others list comprehen-
sions qualify as a more or less efficient obfuscation mechanism.

Regards,

Dinu


From Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr  Wed Mar 27 08:18:54 2002
From: Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr (Alexandre)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:18:54 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20020327081854.GA22047@orion.logilab.fr>

On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 08:34:48PM +0100, Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> Would anybody object if Python 1.5 is not supported in future PyXML
> releases anymore? If so, this is the time to speak up; please be
> specific as to what your needs are.

No objection on our (i.e. Logilab's) side. 

Alexandre Fayolle
-- 
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
Narval, the first software agent available as free software (GPL).


From martin@v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 27 09:34:53 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 10:34:53 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <xuyn0wu4z5v.fsf@halden.devel.redhat.com>
References: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <xuyn0wu4z5v.fsf@halden.devel.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <m3wuvywdz6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

teg@redhat.com (Trond Eivind Glomsr=F8d) writes:

> We still ship Python 1.5. as the default python, and will be for a
> little while longer... we can't switch python until the next major
> release, due to compatibility concerns.

What does that mean for PyXML? Are you shipping PyXML packages?

Regards,
Martin


From martin@v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 27 09:41:02 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 10:41:02 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <1017208772.3ca15fc4bec9c@webmail.in-berlin.de>
References: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <1017177237.3ca0e495c869a@webmail.in-berlin.de>
 <m3zo0vyn21.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <1017208772.3ca15fc4bec9c@webmail.in-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <m3sn6mwdox.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Dinu Gherman <gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de> writes:

> > For most part, it would not be actively dropped. Instead, we'd just
> > remove the restriction that new code must work with 1.5
> 
> Well, that is enough to make new versions of PyXML incompatible with 
> Python 1.5, isn't it? If so, this measure probably does qualify as
> "actively dropped support for 1.5".

Not necessarily. Someone could volunteer to back-port all changes to 1.5.
Also, it may be that users of Python 1.5 don't care about new features,
as long as it still installs.

> Isn't that a highly subjective argument? For others list comprehen-
> sions qualify as a more or less efficient obfuscation mechanism.

To modify a Linus Torvalds quote: He who writes the code choses the
syntax. If the authos, of, say, c14n.py would like to use list
comprehensions in his code, I had no problems with that. If somebody
contributed a patch to xmlproc to change all loops to list
comprehensions, I'd check with the xmlproc author first.

Being able to use the latest language features is attractive for some
developers, and I'd like to attract developers to contribute to PyXML.

Regards,
Martin


From veillard@redhat.com  Wed Mar 27 10:19:22 2002
From: veillard@redhat.com (Daniel Veillard)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 05:19:22 -0500
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <m3wuvywdz6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>; from martin@v.loewis.de on Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 10:34:53AM +0100
References: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <xuyn0wu4z5v.fsf@halden.devel.redhat.com> <m3wuvywdz6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20020327051922.V31848@redhat.com>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 10:34:53AM +0100, Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> teg@redhat.com (Trond Eivind Glomsr=F8d) writes:
>=20
> > We still ship Python 1.5. as the default python, and will be for a
> > little while longer... we can't switch python until the next major
> > release, due to compatibility concerns.
>=20
> What does that mean for PyXML? Are you shipping PyXML packages?

  We ship 1.5 as the default Python. There is also python2 packages
which have been upgraded to 2.2 and hence should include PyXML.
  We also ship the libxml2/libxslt Python bindings which include support
for both python 1.5 and the version of 2.x provided.

Daniel

--=20
Daniel Veillard      | Red Hat Network https://rhn.redhat.com/
veillard@redhat.com  | libxml GNOME XML XSLT toolkit  http://xmlsoft.org/
http://veillard.com/ | Rpmfind RPM search engine http://rpmfind.net/


From martin@v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 27 11:26:01 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 12:26:01 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <20020327051922.V31848@redhat.com>
References: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <xuyn0wu4z5v.fsf@halden.devel.redhat.com>
 <m3wuvywdz6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <20020327051922.V31848@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <m3pu1quu9i.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Daniel Veillard <veillard@redhat.com> writes:

>   We ship 1.5 as the default Python. There is also python2 packages
> which have been upgraded to 2.2 and hence should include PyXML.

Atleast the parts of PyXML that have migrated into Python. I guess you
don't have a separate PyXML package, then (e.g. PyXML 0.6.6).

>   We also ship the libxml2/libxslt Python bindings which include support
> for both python 1.5 and the version of 2.x provided.

Thanks for the information. It appears that PyXML users, if 1.5
support is dropped, could use it only with the 2.x installation, which
I find acceptable.

Regards,
Martin



From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de  Wed Mar 27 12:57:45 2002
From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:57:45 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <m3sn6mwdox.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <1017177237.3ca0e495c869a@webmail.in-berlin.de> <m3zo0vyn21.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <1017208772.3ca15fc4bec9c@webmail.in-berlin.de> <m3sn6mwdox.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1017233864.3ca1c1c90363a@webmail.in-berlin.de>

"Martin v. Loewis" <martin@v.loewis.de>:

> > Well, that is enough to make new versions of PyXML incompatible with
> > Python 1.5, isn't it? If so, this measure probably does qualify as
> > "actively dropped support for 1.5".
> 
> Not necessarily. Someone could volunteer to back-port all changes to
> 1.5. Also, it may be that users of Python 1.5 don't care about new
> features, as long as it still installs.

Well, someone could volunteer to rewrite CPython in K&R-style C. Does 
that mean Python is actively supported on dinosaur PDP-11 boxes?;-) 
(Just an example, I'm not sure there were ANSI-C compilers for them, 
too.)

> > Isn't that a highly subjective argument? For others list comprehen-
> > sions qualify as a more or less efficient obfuscation mechanism.
> 
> To modify a Linus Torvalds quote: He who writes the code choses the
> syntax. If the authos, of, say, c14n.py would like to use list
> comprehensions in his code, I had no problems with that. If somebody
> contributed a patch to xmlproc to change all loops to list
> comprehensions, I'd check with the xmlproc author first.
> 
> Being able to use the latest language features is attractive for some
> developers, and I'd like to attract developers to contribute to PyXML.

I make a distinction between "really" new features and other ways 
(sometimes more convenient ones) to do the same thing. Maybe some
of you still remember the times when Python was taking pride for
its orthogonal design? But that's an entirely different story and 
should not be discussed here, I agree...

Regards,

Dinu


From tpassin@comcast.net  Wed Mar 27 13:32:39 2002
From: tpassin@comcast.net (Thomas B. Passin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:32:39 -0500
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
References: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <1017177237.3ca0e495c869a@webmail.in-berlin.de>
 <m3zo0vyn21.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <1017208772.3ca15fc4bec9c@webmail.in-berlin.de>
 <m3sn6mwdox.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <001301c1d593$dd9394f0$0bf13044@tbp>

I'm still using it with Zope, version 2.3.3, which uses Python 1.5.2.  I'm
waiting for one or two more releases to come out before I switch to a newer
Zope with Python 2.x.  But in practice this may not matter since I'm using
it together with 4xslt, and the latest versions of that won't work with
1.5.2 anyway, as I understand it.

I wonder if there are many other Zope users who still need 1.5.2
compatibility.  If there are, they had best let us know soon.

Cheers,

Tom P



From Anthony Baxter <anthony@interlink.com.au>  Wed Mar 27 13:27:12 2002
From: Anthony Baxter <anthony@interlink.com.au> (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:27:12 +1100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: Message from teg@redhat.com (Trond Eivind =?iso-8859-1?q?Glomsr=F8d?=)
 of "26 Mar 2002 19:44:44 CDT." <xuyn0wu4z5v.fsf@halden.devel.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <200203271327.g2RDRDu22175@mbuna.arbhome.com.au>

>>> Trond Eivind =3D?iso-8859-1?q?Glomsr=3DF8d?=3D wrote
> We still ship Python 1.5. as the default python, and will be for a
> little while longer... we can't switch python until the next major
> release, due to compatibility concerns.

Darn. Here's hoping "a little while longer" isn't too much longer... I'm
getting sick of supporting 1.5.2 because "it's what redhat ships"... :/

Anthony


From r.salz@verizon.net  Wed Mar 27 14:15:34 2002
From: r.salz@verizon.net (Rich Salz)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:15:34 -0500
Subject: [XML-SIG] Why no CVS view for pyxml?
Message-ID: <3CA1D406.5090305@verizon.net>

Is this an SF issue, something broken in my browser, something we're not 
doing, or what?  I never see any files, just the directory structure.
E.g. http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/pyxml/xml/dom/ext/
	/r$



From Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr  Wed Mar 27 14:32:21 2002
From: Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr (Alexandre)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:32:21 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Why no CVS view for pyxml?
In-Reply-To: <3CA1D406.5090305@verizon.net>
References: <3CA1D406.5090305@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <20020327143221.GE22641@orion.logilab.fr>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 09:15:34AM -0500, Rich Salz wrote:
> Is this an SF issue, something broken in my browser, something we're not 
> doing, or what?  I never see any files, just the directory structure.
> E.g. http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/pyxml/xml/dom/ext/

Because you have to use
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/pyxml/xml/xml/dom/ext/
(notice the extra xml directory). Don't ask me why, it was like this
long before I started using pyxml.

Alexandre Fayolle
-- 
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
Narval, the first software agent available as free software (GPL).


From martin@v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 27 14:39:06 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 15:39:06 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <1017233864.3ca1c1c90363a@webmail.in-berlin.de>
References: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <1017177237.3ca0e495c869a@webmail.in-berlin.de>
 <m3zo0vyn21.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <1017208772.3ca15fc4bec9c@webmail.in-berlin.de>
 <m3sn6mwdox.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <1017233864.3ca1c1c90363a@webmail.in-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <m38z8eulbp.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Dinu Gherman <gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de> writes:

> > Not necessarily. Someone could volunteer to back-port all changes to
> > 1.5. Also, it may be that users of Python 1.5 don't care about new
> > features, as long as it still installs.
> 
> Well, someone could volunteer to rewrite CPython in K&R-style C. Does 
> that mean Python is actively supported on dinosaur PDP-11 boxes?;-) 

No: the difference would be that patches to Python to change to K&R C
would be rejected. I would accept patches to PyXML to backport it to
Python 1.5 if there was interest in such patches. This seems to be all
theoretical - nobody has requested that Python 1.5 continues to work,
or offered to contribute patches.

Regards,
Martin


From akuchlin@mems-exchange.org  Wed Mar 27 14:46:48 2002
From: akuchlin@mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:46:48 -0500
Subject: [XML-SIG] Why no CVS view for pyxml?
In-Reply-To: <20020327143221.GE22641@orion.logilab.fr>
References: <3CA1D406.5090305@verizon.net> <20020327143221.GE22641@orion.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <20020327144648.GA11808@ute.mems-exchange.org>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 03:32:21PM +0100, Alexandre wrote:
>Because you have to use
>http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi  
>    /pyxml/xml/xml/dom/ext/
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^ directory within the 'xml' CVS module
            ^^^ CVS module name (others are sandbox, test, www)
     ^^^^^^ SF project name

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
The proof of the pumpkin is in the squeezing.
    -- The Doctor, in "Time and the Rani"

                                                 


From akuchlin@mems-exchange.org  Wed Mar 27 14:51:25 2002
From: akuchlin@mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:51:25 -0500
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <200203271327.g2RDRDu22175@mbuna.arbhome.com.au>
References: <xuyn0wu4z5v.fsf@halden.devel.redhat.com> <200203271327.g2RDRDu22175@mbuna.arbhome.com.au>
Message-ID: <20020327145125.GB11808@ute.mems-exchange.org>

On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 12:27:12AM +1100, Anthony Baxter wrote:
>Darn. Here's hoping "a little while longer" isn't too much longer... I'm
>getting sick of supporting 1.5.2 because "it's what redhat ships"... :/

Unfortunately there was little that could be done about this.  Red Hat
7.0 shipped in September 2000, I think.  Python 2.0 was in the beta
state at the time, and 2.0final was released on October 16th.
Assuming the next Red Hat release will be 7.3 and not 8.0, that means
Python 2.2.1 can certainly get into 8.0, and maybe 2.3 will even be
done by then.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
#1 rule of the intergalactic explorer, Doctor: if you hear somebody
talking about "good vibes" and "letting it all hang out", run a mile.
    -- Captain Cook, in "The Greatest Show in the Galaxy"



From martin@v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 27 14:41:06 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 15:41:06 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <001301c1d593$dd9394f0$0bf13044@tbp>
References: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <1017177237.3ca0e495c869a@webmail.in-berlin.de>
 <m3zo0vyn21.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <1017208772.3ca15fc4bec9c@webmail.in-berlin.de>
 <m3sn6mwdox.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <001301c1d593$dd9394f0$0bf13044@tbp>
Message-ID: <m34rj2ul8d.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Thomas B. Passin" <tpassin@comcast.net> writes:

> I'm still using it with Zope, version 2.3.3, which uses Python 1.5.2.  I'm
> waiting for one or two more releases to come out before I switch to a newer
> Zope with Python 2.x.  But in practice this may not matter since I'm using
> it together with 4xslt, and the latest versions of that won't work with
> 1.5.2 anyway, as I understand it.

Ok, so I understand you wouldn't object, either, if 0.7.1 was the last
PyXML release for use with Python 1.5.

In fact, copying of 4XPath/4XSLT will probably the other significant
breakage of 1.5 support.

Regards,
Martin



From teg@redhat.com  Wed Mar 27 15:21:17 2002
From: teg@redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Trond_Eivind_Glomsr=F8d?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:21:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <m3pu1quu9i.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203271018380.19575-100000@halden.devel.redhat.com>

On 27 Mar 2002, Martin v. Loewis wrote:

> Daniel Veillard <veillard@redhat.com> writes:
>=20
> >   We ship 1.5 as the default Python. There is also python2 packages
> > which have been upgraded to 2.2 and hence should include PyXML.
>=20
> Atleast the parts of PyXML that have migrated into Python. I guess you
> don't have a separate PyXML package, then (e.g. PyXML 0.6.6).

We do. Like all other python modules, this is compiled against the=20
standard python on the system, Python 1.5. Hence the problem. PyXML is at=
=20
0.7. We also ship 4Suite.

> Thanks for the information. It appears that PyXML users, if 1.5
> support is dropped, could use it only with the 2.x installation, which
> I find acceptable.

The python 2.2 package is not installed by default, does not have any=20
support modules (like database modules, newt, 4Suite, PyXML etc) and is=20
not used by our programs (some of which use PyXML/4Suite). We could drop=20
python 2.2 today and have no impact - nothing uses it, it's there only as=
=20
a preview for those interested.

--=20
Trond Eivind Glomsr=F8d
Red Hat, Inc.



From teg@redhat.com  Wed Mar 27 15:23:25 2002
From: teg@redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Trond_Eivind_Glomsr=F8d?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:23:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <m3wuvywdz6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203271021250.19575-100000@halden.devel.redhat.com>

On 27 Mar 2002, Martin v. Loewis wrote:

> teg@redhat.com (Trond Eivind Glomsr=F8d) writes:
>=20
> > We still ship Python 1.5. as the default python, and will be for a
> > little while longer... we can't switch python until the next major
> > release, due to compatibility concerns.
>=20
> What does that mean for PyXML? Are you shipping PyXML packages?

We are shipping PyXML 0.7, and we must keep it at a level where it will=20
work with the standard python we ship. We'd love to upgrade the python,=20
but because the newer versions isn't compatible (on the binary level), we=
=20
can't. We'll do it when we do a major release, which is when we can break=
=20
compatibility.=20

--=20
Trond Eivind Glomsr=F8d
Red Hat, Inc.



From martin@v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 27 14:44:11 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 15:44:11 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Why no CVS view for pyxml?
In-Reply-To: <3CA1D406.5090305@verizon.net>
References: <3CA1D406.5090305@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <m3zo0ut6is.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Rich Salz <r.salz@verizon.net> writes:

> Is this an SF issue, something broken in my browser, something we're
> not doing, or what?  I never see any files, just the directory
> structure.
> E.g. http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/pyxml/xml/dom/ext/

That directory is indeed empty. Try

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/pyxml/xml/xml/dom/ext/

Regards,
Martin


From Carlos_Eberhardt@URSCorp.com  Wed Mar 27 15:32:57 2002
From: Carlos_Eberhardt@URSCorp.com (Carlos_Eberhardt@URSCorp.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:32:57 -0600
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
Message-ID: <OF506B9F08.A6C901A6-ON85256B89.0054D5A6@urscorp.com>




> We do. Like all other python modules, this is compiled against the
> standard python on the system, Python 1.5. Hence the problem. PyXML is at

> 0.7. We also ship 4Suite.



Putting my nose where it doesn't belong, but I'm just too curious. If
Redhat ships an old python as the default, why can't it also ship an old
PyXML as the default? Couldn't you still offer the latest PyXML as an
option, like with Python 2.2? Or are there new features for the next
release that are required?

Again, sorry for butting in.. I must be looking for some way to avoid work
today...

Carlos




From teg@redhat.com  Wed Mar 27 15:51:03 2002
From: teg@redhat.com (Trond Eivind =?iso-8859-1?q?Glomsr=F8d?=)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 10:51:03 -0500
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <OF506B9F08.A6C901A6-ON85256B89.0054D5A6@urscorp.com>
References: <OF506B9F08.A6C901A6-ON85256B89.0054D5A6@urscorp.com>
Message-ID: <xuyhen29fh4.fsf@halden.devel.redhat.com>

Carlos_Eberhardt@URSCorp.com writes:

> > We do. Like all other python modules, this is compiled against the
> > standard python on the system, Python 1.5. Hence the problem. PyXML i=
s at
>=20
> > 0.7. We also ship 4Suite.
>=20
> Putting my nose where it doesn't belong, but I'm just too curious. If
> Redhat ships an old python as the default, why can't it also ship an ol=
d
> PyXML as the default?

We can (and most likey will, if a newer one is released now - we're
unlikely to update it after the public beta, unless something bad
happens). I'm just pointing out that many users will still be using
Python 1.5.2 for some time to come.


--=20
Trond Eivind Glomsr=F8d
Red Hat, Inc.


From martin@v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 27 16:19:34 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 17:19:34 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203271018380.19575-100000@halden.devel.redhat.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203271018380.19575-100000@halden.devel.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <m3vgbioueh.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Trond Eivind Glomsr=F8d <teg@redhat.com> writes:

> We do. Like all other python modules, this is compiled against the=20
> standard python on the system, Python 1.5. Hence the problem. PyXML is at=
=20
> 0.7. We also ship 4Suite.

I see. I guess you then got a compatibility problem already: 4XSLT, in
all released versions, does not work well with PyXML 0.7, as the DOM
interfaces where tightened in 0.7 in a way that is incompatible with
the 4XSLT usage.

The solution to this is to go either backwards or forwards; as Rich
indicates, going forwards won't help Python 1.5 users, since the next
4Suite release will mandate Python 2.x (and will be stand-alone).

> The python 2.2 package is not installed by default, does not have any=20
> support modules (like database modules, newt, 4Suite, PyXML etc) and is=20
> not used by our programs (some of which use PyXML/4Suite). We could drop=
=20
> python 2.2 today and have no impact - nothing uses it, it's there only as=
=20
> a preview for those interested.

I understand that. I kind-of questioned whether people who actively
develop applications for PyXML would settle with having to restrict
themselves to Python 1.5 - most XML users sooner or later find a need
for Unicode. So I would expect PyXML users to install the Redhat
Python 2.2 package, and install PyXML manually on top of that.

Regards,
Martin


From martin@v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 27 16:26:26 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 17:26:26 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: <xuyhen29fh4.fsf@halden.devel.redhat.com>
References: <OF506B9F08.A6C901A6-ON85256B89.0054D5A6@urscorp.com>
 <xuyhen29fh4.fsf@halden.devel.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <m3n0wuou31.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

teg@redhat.com (Trond Eivind Glomsr=F8d) writes:

> We can (and most likey will, if a newer one is released now - we're
> unlikely to update it after the public beta, unless something bad
> happens). I'm just pointing out that many users will still be using
> Python 1.5.2 for some time to come.

Understood. I think we can close this case, then: PyXML 0.8 will start
to drop Python 1.5 support, and we'll leave a 0.7 maintainance branch
in case users are interested in a 0.7.2 release.

Regards,
Martin


From r.salz@verizon.net  Wed Mar 27 20:18:01 2002
From: r.salz@verizon.net (Rich Salz)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:18:01 -0500
Subject: [XML-SIG] Why no CVS view for pyxml?
References: <3CA1D406.5090305@verizon.net> <20020327143221.GE22641@orion.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <3CA228F9.7030504@verizon.net>

Aha.  I waas confused by the (old?) directory layout at the toplevel, 
not the "real" one one level of "xml/" down.  The difference between 
"cvs co -p" and viewcvs?
	/r$



From jmarant@free.fr  Wed Mar 27 21:04:31 2002
From: jmarant@free.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?J=E9r=F4me?= Marant)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:04:31 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] [Thomas Leonard <tal00r@ecs.soton.ac.uk>] Bug#140148:
 python2.1-xml: Namespace attributes not escaped by Printer
Message-ID: <87n0wtoh7k.fsf@marant.org>

--=-=-=


One bug report.

Cheers,


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Subject: Bug#140148: python2.1-xml: Namespace attributes not escaped by
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Package: python2.1-xml
Version: 0.7-1
Severity: normal

When using ext/Printer.py, namespace attribute values are not escaped.
Eg, if you have 'xmlns:prefix' with the value "'foo'" then it gets written
out as:

	<node xmlns:prefix=''foo''/>

which then can't be loaded back in again!

(I have an XML editor which doesn't show the quotes, but forgetful users
sometimes put them in anyway ;-)


Debian Release: 3.0
Kernel Version: Linux everest 2.2.18pre21 #7 Fri Apr 13 14:24:24 BST 2001 i686 unknown

Versions of the packages python2.1-xml depends on:
ii  libc6          2.2.5-4        GNU C Library: Shared libraries and Timezone
ii  python2.1      2.1.2-3        An interactive object-oriented scripting lan
ii  python2.1-xmlb 2.1.2-3        XML support included in Python (v2.1)


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-- 
Jérôme Marant <jerome@marant.org>
              <jerome.marant@free.fr>

http://marant.org
              

--=-=-=--


From tpassin@comcast.net  Thu Mar 28 01:14:18 2002
From: tpassin@comcast.net (Thomas B. Passin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:14:18 -0500
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
References: <m3lmcfyvfr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <1017177237.3ca0e495c869a@webmail.in-berlin.de>
 <m3zo0vyn21.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <1017208772.3ca15fc4bec9c@webmail.in-berlin.de>
 <m3sn6mwdox.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <001301c1d593$dd9394f0$0bf13044@tbp>
 <m34rj2ul8d.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <001001c1d5f5$e2976140$0bf13044@tbp>

[Martin v. Loewis]

> "Thomas B. Passin" <tpassin@comcast.net> writes:
>
> > I'm still using it with Zope, version 2.3.3, which uses Python 1.5.2.
I'm
> > waiting for one or two more releases to come out before I switch to a
newer
> > Zope with Python 2.x.  But in practice this may not matter since I'm
using
> > it together with 4xslt, and the latest versions of that won't work with
> > 1.5.2 anyway, as I understand it.
>
> Ok, so I understand you wouldn't object, either, if 0.7.1 was the last
> PyXML release for use with Python 1.5.
>

Right.

Tom P



From Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr  Thu Mar 28 13:28:51 2002
From: Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr (Alexandre)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:28:51 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] xml.dom.ext.reader in pyxml-0.7.1 and 4Suite-0.12
Message-ID: <20020328132851.GO22641@orion.logilab.fr>

Hello,

Are there any plans to synchronize pyxml reader so that they match the
API in 4Suite 0.12 by pyxml-0.7.1 ?

Alexandre Fayolle
-- 
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
Narval, the first software agent available as free software (GPL).


From martin@v.loewis.de  Thu Mar 28 15:30:34 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 16:30:34 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] xml.dom.ext.reader in pyxml-0.7.1 and 4Suite-0.12
In-Reply-To: <20020328132851.GO22641@orion.logilab.fr>
References: <20020328132851.GO22641@orion.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <m3adss1zhh.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Alexandre <Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr> writes:

> Are there any plans to synchronize pyxml reader so that they match the
> API in 4Suite 0.12 by pyxml-0.7.1 ?

I'm not aware of any action needed, so: no.

Regards,
Martin


From uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com  Sat Mar 30 03:53:18 2002
From: uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 20:53:18 -0700
Subject: [XML-SIG] Dropping Python 1.5 support in PyXML
In-Reply-To: Message from martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
 of "27 Mar 2002 17:19:34 +0100." <m3vgbioueh.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <200203300353.g2U3rIj19098@localhost.localdomain>

Putting in my late 2 cents.

I think PyXML should ditch support for Python 1.5.2 in precisely the mann=
er =

that Martin suggests, i.e. don't go out of our way to throw in every 2.0 =

feature, but rather just remove the burden required by 1.5.2 support.

I am very sympathetic to Red Hat's needs, and so I don't take Trond's poi=
nts =

lightly, but, as I think all have acknowledged, Red Hat can do well enoug=
h =

shipping PyXML 0.7 until it can upgrade its Python version.  Of course, t=
his =

already poses a problem because PyXML 0.7 only mixes with 4Suite 0.12.0a?=
, =

which is Python 2.x only.  I'm not sure how to help this situation.

Trond,

I've already assumed I'll have to work with you a bit to help you package=
 any =

0.12.0 releases in a suitable RPM form.  We now bundle 4Suite Server, in =
part =

to reduce the maintenance burden on us, and in part to improve integratio=
n.  I =

hardly presume Red Hat will be wanting to bundle the repository as well: =
after =

all, you don't even bundle Zope (though, perhaps, 4Suite's licensing is =

clearer).  It should be easy enough to have an RPM based on the 4Suite tg=
z, =

with patched __packageInfo__.py files that omit the repo (and stale modul=
es =

like 4ODS).


-- =

Uche Ogbuji                               Principal Consultant
uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com               +1 720 320 2046
Fourthought, Inc.                         http://Fourthought.com =

4735 East Walnut St, Boulder, CO 80301-2537, USA
XML strategy, XML tools (http://4Suite.org), knowledge management




From uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com  Sat Mar 30 03:57:34 2002
From: uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 20:57:34 -0700
Subject: [XML-SIG] xml.dom.ext.reader in pyxml-0.7.1 and 4Suite-0.12
In-Reply-To: Message from martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
 of "28 Mar 2002 16:30:34 +0100." <m3adss1zhh.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <200203300357.g2U3vYb19175@localhost.localdomain>

> Alexandre <Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr> writes:
> 
> > Are there any plans to synchronize pyxml reader so that they match the
> > API in 4Suite 0.12 by pyxml-0.7.1 ?
> 
> I'm not aware of any action needed, so: no.

I'm guessing Alexandre means the readers in the 4xpath/4xslt bundled with 
pyxml (or correct me if I'm wrong).

We've actualy moved 4Suite readers a lot closer to the constructions in SAX 
and DOM: now we have an InputSource object which encapsulates streaming, 
encoding and entity resolution matters.  I don't think anything would have to 
be done in any other areas of PyXML, though it might be nice one day to 
implement proper DOM Level 3 L&S InputSources, and try reconciling the small 
diffwerences with PySAX InputSources and 4Suite InputSources.


-- 
Uche Ogbuji                               Principal Consultant
uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com               +1 720 320 2046
Fourthought, Inc.                         http://Fourthought.com 
4735 East Walnut St, Boulder, CO 80301-2537, USA
XML strategy, XML tools (http://4Suite.org), knowledge management




From martin@v.loewis.de  Sat Mar 30 08:26:10 2002
From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 09:26:10 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] xml.dom.ext.reader in pyxml-0.7.1 and 4Suite-0.12
In-Reply-To: <200203300357.g2U3vYb19175@localhost.localdomain>
References: <200203300357.g2U3vYb19175@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <m3zo0qxxzx.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Uche Ogbuji <uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com> writes:

> I'm guessing Alexandre means the readers in the 4xpath/4xslt bundled with 
> pyxml (or correct me if I'm wrong).

Ah, ok. Then definitely no: I consider xml.xpath/xml.xslt in PyXML 0.7
"preview" code only - if it is useful for anybody, feel free to use
it, and perhaps even contribute, but I won't actively maintain
it. Instead, I'll copy a more recent 4XSLT from 4Suite after 0.12 is
released, and make this part of PyXML 0.8. It will be hopefully easier
to maintain this than it was in the past, getting contributions from
both 4Suite and the PyXML user community.

Regards,
Martin