From larsga@garshol.priv.no Sat Oct 2 14:24:55 1999 From: larsga@garshol.priv.no (Lars Marius Garshol) Date: 02 Oct 1999 15:24:55 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] First draft of RXP SAX driver Message-ID: I've just completed a first draft of a SAX driver for the RXP parser in the LT XML package, which is available through the LT PyXML package.[1] This is a parser written in C, which is a little slower than expat. However, it can validate, and in any case it is an alternative to expat if anyone wants that. Also, the package contains a query interface and what seems to be a tree builder, both of which seem interesting, but so far I haven't looked closely at them. Note that the drivers have only seen the most basic of testing and that the interface to the LT XML package itself seems to be a bit incomplete. Anyway, a non-validating and a validating driver have both been committed to the CVS tree. Please do test them and post comments here. --Lars M. [1] From uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com Mon Oct 4 06:41:08 1999 From: uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com (uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 01:41:08 -0400 Subject: [XML-SIG] SAX2.py Message-ID: <199910040541.BAA23672@malatesta.local> This is a multipart MIME message. --==_Exmh_-12281926040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Ok Folks, There's pretty much no way to run a SAX-based XSLT interface from SAX classic, and building DOM therefrom is just a mess. I can't really wait for SAX2 to finish incubating, and I don't expect earth-levelling changes, so I went and wrote a Python module for SAX2 in its current drafts. The module is attached. It could easily go into CVS for experimentation: we will certainly be using these interfaces in 4DOM and 4XSLT. I'd appreciate any discussion, and if it merits it, Andrew, Lars, or someone could check it into the xml-SIG CVS. -- Uche Ogbuji FourThought LLC, IT Consultants uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com (970)481-0805 Software engineering, project management, Intranets and Extranets http://FourThought.com http://OpenTechnology.org --==_Exmh_-12281926040 Content-Type: text/plain; name="Sax2Lib.py"; charset=us-ascii Content-Description: Sax2Lib.py Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Sax2Lib.py" """A Python translation of the SAX2 parser API. This file provides only default classes with absolutely minimum functionality, from which drivers and applications can be subclassed. Many of these classes are empty and are included only as documentation of the interfaces. """ from xml.sax import saxlib class LexicalHandler: """ Default handler for lexical events Note: All methods can raise SAXException """ handlerId = 'http://xml.org/sax/handlers/lexical' def xmlDecl(self, version, encoding, standalone): """The XML Declaration""" pass def startDTD(self, doctype, publicID, systemID): """Invoked at the beginning of the DOCTYPE declaration""" pass def endDTD(self): """ Invoked after all components of the DOCTYPE declaration, including both internal and external DTD subsets """ pass def startEntity(self, name): """ Note: If an external DTD subset is read, it will invoke this method with special entity name of "[DTD]" """ pass def endEntity(self, name): pass def comment(self, text): """XML Comment""" pass def startCDATA(self): """Beginning of CDATA Section""" pass def endCDATA(self): """End of CDATA Section""" pass class AttributeList2(saxlib. AttributeList): def isSpecified(self, id): """ Whether the attribute value with the given name or index was explicitly specified in the element, or was determined from the default. Parameter can be either integer index or attribute name. None (the default) signals "Don't Know", else a boolean return """ pass def getEntityRefList(self, id): """ XML 1,0 parsers are required to report all entity references, even if unexpanded. This includes those in attribute strings. Many parsers and apps ignore this, but for full conformance, This method can be called to get a list of indexes referring to entity references within the attribute value string for the given name or index. Parameter can be either integer index or attribute name. """ pass class EntityRefList: """ This is the entity-reference list returned by AttributeList2.getEntityRefList(index) """ def getLength(self): "Return the number of Entity Ref pointers" pass def getEntityName(self, index): "Return the name of the entity reference at the given index" pass def getEntityRefStart(self, index): """ Return the string start position of the entity reference at the given index """ pass def getEntityRefEnd(self, index): """ Return the string end position of the entity reference at the given index """ pass def __len__(self): "Alias for getLength." pass class DTDDeclHandler: """ A handler for a minimal set of DTD Events """ MODEL_ELEMENTS = 1 MODEL_MIXED = 2 MODEL_ANY = 3 MODEL_EMPTY = 4 ATTRIBUTE_DEFAULTED = 1 ATTRIBUTE_IMPLIED = 2 ATTRIBUTE_REQUIRED = 3 ATTRIBUTE_FIXED = 4 handlerId = 'http://xml.org/sax/handlers/dtd-decl' def elementDecl(self, name, modelType, model): """ Report an element-type declaration. name and model are strings, modelType is an enumerated int from 1 to 4 """ pass def attributeDecl(self, element, name, type, defaultValue, defaultType, entityRefs): """ Report an attribute declaration. The first 4 parameters are strings, defaultType is an integer from 1 to 4, entityRefs is an EntityRefList """ pass def externalEntityDecl(self, name, isParameterEntity, publicId, systemId): """ Report an external entity declaration. All parameters are strings except for isParameterEntity, which is 0 or 1 """ pass def internalEntityDecl(self, name, isParameterEntity, value): """ Report an external entity declaration. All parameters are strings except for isParameterEntity, which is 0 or 1 """ pass class NamespaceHandler: """ Receive callbacks for the start and end of the scope of each namespace declaration. """ handlerId = 'http://xml.org/sax/handlers/namespace' def startNamespaceDeclScope(prefix, uri): """ Report the start of the scope of a namespace declaration. This event will be reported before the startElement event for the element containing the namespace declaration. All declarations must be properly nested; if there are multiple declarations in a single element, they must end in the opposite order that they began. both parameters are strings """ pass def endNamespaceDeclScope(prefix): """ Report the end of the scope of a namespace declaration. This event will be reported after the endElement event for the element containing the namespace declaration. Namespace scopes must be properly nested. """ pass class ModParser(saxlib.Parser): """ All methods may raise SAXNotSupportedException """ def setFeature(self, featureID, state): """ featureId is a string, state a boolean """ pass def setHandler(self, handlerID, handler): """ handlerID is a string, handler a handler instance """ pass def set(self, propID, value): """ propID is a string, value of arbitrary type """ pass def get(self, propID): pass import sys if sys.platform[0:4] == 'java': from exceptions import Exception class SAXNotSupportedException(Exception): """ Indicate that a SAX2 parser interface does not support a particular feature or handler, or property. """ pass #Just a few helper lists with the core components CoreHandlers = [ 'http://xml.org/sax/handlers/lexical', 'http://xml.org/sax/handlers/dtd-decl', 'http://xml.org/sax/handlers/namespace' ] CoreProperties = [ 'http://xml.org/sax/properties/namespace-sep', #write-only string #Set the separator to be used between the URI part of a name and the #local part of a name when namespace processing is being performed #(see the http://xml.org/sax/features/namespaces feature). By #default, the separator is a single space. This property may not be #set while a parse is in progress (raises SAXNotSupportedException). 'http://xml.org/sax/properties/dom-node', #read-only Node instance #Get the DOM node currently being visited, if the SAX parser is #iterating over a DOM tree. If the parser recognises and supports #this property but is not currently visiting a DOM node, it should #return null (this is a good way to check for availability before the #parse begins). 'http://xml.org/sax/properties/xml-string' #read-only string #Get the literal string of characters associated with the current #event. If the parser recognises and supports this property but is #not currently parsing text, it should return null (this is a good #way to check for availability before the parse begins). ] CoreFeatures = [ 'http://xml.org/sax/features/validation', #Validate (1) or don't validate (0). 'http://xml.org/sax/features/external-general-entities', #Expand external general entities (1) or don't expand (0). 'http://xml.org/sax/features/external-parameter-entities', #Expand external parameter entities (1) or don't expand (0). 'http://xml.org/sax/features/namespaces', #Preprocess namespaces (1) or don't preprocess (0). See also #the http://xml.org/sax/properties/namespace-sep property. 'http://xml.org/sax/features/normalize-text' #Ensure that all consecutive text is returned in a single callback to #DocumentHandler.characters or DocumentHandler.ignorableWhitespace #(1) or explicitly do not require it (0). ] --==_Exmh_-12281926040-- From larsga@garshol.priv.no Mon Oct 4 12:49:47 1999 From: larsga@garshol.priv.no (Lars Marius Garshol) Date: 04 Oct 1999 13:49:47 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] SAX2.py In-Reply-To: <199910040541.BAA23672@malatesta.local> References: <199910040541.BAA23672@malatesta.local> Message-ID: * uche ogbuji | | The module is attached. Uche, this is great! It duplicates what I have already done (and already posted), but that doesn't matter. If we can thrash out the issues on the list and arrive at one set of interfaces then that would be great. I've sent your proposal to the printer and will look at it tonight. For comparison, here is mine: --- Features The list below is copied directly from David Megginsons latest proposal. Note that all features are optional. http://xml.org/sax/features/validation Validate (true) or don't validate (false). http://xml.org/sax/features/external-general-entities Expand external general entities (true) or don't expand (false). http://xml.org/sax/features/external-parameter-entities Expand external parameter entities including the external DTD subset (true) or don't expand (false). http://xml.org/sax/features/namespaces Preprocess namespaces (true) or don't preprocess (false). See also the http://xml.org/sax/properties/namespace-sep property. http://xml.org/sax/features/normalize-text Ensure that all consecutive text is returned in a single callback to DocumentHandler.characters or DocumentHandler.ignorableWhitespace (true) or explicitly do not require it (false). http://xml.org/sax/features/use-locator Provide a Locator using the DocumentHandler.setDocumentLocator callback (true), or explicitly do not provide one (false). --- LexicalHandler This handler is supposed to be used by applications that need information about lexical details in the document such as comments and entity boundaries. Most applications won't need this, but the DOM will find it useful. Support for this handler will be optional. This handler has the handerID http://xml.org/sax/handlers/lexical. class LexicalHandler: def xmlDecl(self, version, encoding, standalone): """All three parameters are strings. encoding and standalone are not specified on the XML declaration, their values will be None.""" def startDTD(self, root, publicID, systemID): """This event is reported when the DOCTYPE declaration is encountered. root is the name of the root element type, while the two last parameters are the public and system identifiers of the external DTD subset.""" def endDTD(self): "This event is reported after the DTD has been parsed." def startEntity(self, name): """Reports the beginning of a new entity. If the entity is the external DTD subset the name will be '[dtd]'.""" def endEntity(self, name): pass def startCDATA(self): pass def endCDATA(self): pass --- Extended parser class Parser2(Parser): def setFeature(featureID, state) This turns on or off (depending on whether state is true or false) support for a particular feature (like namespaces, validation etc). The parser can raise SAXNotSupportedException if it doesn't support the feature or its subclass SAXUnrecognizedException. def setHandler(handlerID, handler): This registers an event handler with the parser (LexicalHandler, NamespaceHandler or maybe some special parser-defined handler). The parser can raise SAXNotSupportedException if it doesn't support the handler or its subclass SAXUnrecognizedException. def set(propertyID, value): This sets the value of a parser property (such as the namespace separator string or something parser-defined.) The parser can raise SAXNotSupportedException if it doesn't support the handler or its subclass SAXUnrecognizedException. def get(propertyID): This returns the value of a property. The parser can raise SAXNotSupportedException if it doesn't support the handler or its subclass SAXUnrecognizedException. --- Properties The first three properties come from the JavaSAX proposal, while the last one was invented by yours truly. http://xml.org/sax/properties/namespace-sep (write-only) Set the separator to be used between the URI part of a name and the local part of a name when namespace processing is being performed (see the http://xml.org/sax/features/namespaces feature). By default, the separator is a single space. This property may not be set while a parse is in progress (throws a SAXNotSupportedException). http://xml.org/sax/properties/dom-node (read-only) Get the DOM node currently being visited, if the SAX parser is iterating over a DOM tree. If the parser recognises and supports this property but is not currently visiting a DOM node, it should return null (this is a good way to check for availability before the parse begins). This property doesn't make much sense for Python, but I see no point in leaving it out, either. http://xml.org/sax/properties/xml-string (read-only) Get the literal string of characters associated with the current event. If the parser recognises and supports this property but is not currently parsing text, it should return null (this is a good way to check for availability before the parse begins). I stole this idea from Expat. In addition, I think PySAX needs the following property: http://python.org/sax/properties/data-encoding (read/write) This property can be used to control which character encoding is used for data events that come from the parser. Throws SAXEncodingNotSupportedException if the encoding is not supported by the parser. --- AttributeList2 This posting specifies both an extended AttributeList interface for information needed by the DOM (and possibly also others) and also for full XML 1.0 conformance. I'm not really sure whether we should actually use all of this, so opinions are welcome. class AttributeList2: def isSpecified(self,attr): """Returns true if the attribute was explicitly specified in the document and false otherwise. attr can be the attribute name or its index in the AttributeList.""" def getEntityRefList(self,attr): """This returns the EntityRefList (see below) for an attribute, which can be specified by name or index.""" The class below is inteded to be used for discovering entity reference boundaries inside attribute values. This is needed because the XML 1.0 recommendation requires parsers to report unexpanded entity references, also inside attribute values. Whether this is really something we want is another matter. class EntityRefList: def getLength(self): "Returns the number of entity references inside this attribute value." def getEntityName(self, ix): "Returns the name of entity reference number ix (zero-based index)." def getEntityRefStart(self, ix): """Returns the index of the first character inside the attribute value that stems from entity reference number ix.""" def getEntityRefEnd(self, ix): "Returns the index of the last character in entity reference ix." One redeeming feature of this interface is that it lives entirely outside the attribute value, and so can be ignored entirely by those who are not interested. --Lars M. From uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com Mon Oct 4 15:58:54 1999 From: uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com (uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:58:54 -0400 Subject: [XML-SIG] SAX2.py In-Reply-To: Your message of "04 Oct 1999 13:49:47 +0200." Message-ID: <199910041458.KAA24639@malatesta.local> LMG: > Uche, this is great! It duplicates what I have already done (and > already posted), but that doesn't matter. Ooh, ouch, sorry. I knew we'd been discussing it, but when I looked back through the archives, I couldn't find a complete Python module. I must have missed it. I wish I hadn't, because it would have saved me a few hours' work. Well, if yours came straight from Megginson's proposals, there should be little difference between our efforts. All I did was pythonize the Java. For unpythonic features such as multiple inheritance, I converted in a similar way to saxlib.py. So it should be a quick merge. -- Uche Ogbuji FourThought LLC, IT Consultants uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com (970)481-0805 Software engineering, project management, Intranets and Extranets http://FourThought.com http://OpenTechnology.org From uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com Tue Oct 5 17:07:32 1999 From: uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com (uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 12:07:32 -0400 Subject: [XML-SIG] News Flash: Python drops Multiple Inheritance! In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:58:54 EDT." <199910041458.KAA24639@malatesta.local> Message-ID: <199910051607.MAA01871@malatesta.local> I said: >All I did was pythonize the Java. For > unpythonic features such as multiple inheritance, I converted in a similar way > to saxlib.py. Someone just pointed out my silly mis-type above. I meant "function polymorphism", not "multiple inheritance". I must have skipped breakfast that day. -- Uche Ogbuji FourThought LLC, IT Consultants uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com (970)481-0805 Software engineering, project management, Intranets and Extranets http://FourThought.com http://OpenTechnology.org From aprasad/ne_de@fs.fed.us Wed Oct 6 16:42:06 1999 From: aprasad/ne_de@fs.fed.us (Anantha Prasad) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 11:42:06 -0400 Subject: [XML-SIG] XML package 0.5.1 problems Message-ID: <37FB6DCE.F267718D@fs.fed.us> I am running on SGI's IRIX 6.5.3 with the MIPSpro Compilers: Version 7.2.1 and python-1.5.2 I get the foll. error while trying to compile the xml package v0.5.1 All goes well in make until this part below: (any help will be appreciated). cc -O -OPT:Olimit=0 -I/usr/local/include/python1.5 -I/usr/local/include/python1.5 -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -Ixmltok -Ixmlparse -c -o xmlparse/xmlparse.o xmlparse/xmlparse.c "xmlparse/xmlparse.c", line 723: error(1131): expected a field name int tok = XmlContentTok(encoding, start, end, &next); ^ "xmlparse/xmlparse.c", line 723: error(1131): expected a field name int tok = XmlContentTok(encoding, start, end, &next); ^ "xmlparse/xmlparse.c", line 754: error(1131): expected a field name int tok = XmlContentTok(encoding, start, end, &next); ^ "xmlparse/xmlparse.c", line 754: error(1131): expected a field name int tok = XmlContentTok(encoding, start, end, &next); ^ "xmlparse/xmlparse.c", line 1510: error(1131): expected a field name int tok = XmlPrologTok(encoding, s, end, &next); ^ "xmlparse/xmlparse.c", line 1510: error(1131): expected a field name int tok = XmlPrologTok(encoding, s, end, &next); ^ "xmlparse/xmlparse.c", line 1807: error(1131): expected a field name int tok = XmlPrologTok(encoding, s, end, &next); ^ "xmlparse/xmlparse.c", line 1807: error(1131): expected a field name int tok = XmlPrologTok(encoding, s, end, &next); ^ "xmlparse/xmlparse.c", line 1925: warning(1110): statement is unreachable break; ^ "xmlparse/xmlparse.c", line 2007: error(1131): expected a field name int tok = XmlEntityValueTok(encoding, entityTextPtr, entityTextEnd, &next); ^ "xmlparse/xmlparse.c", line 2007: error(1131): expected a field name int tok = XmlEntityValueTok(encoding, entityTextPtr, entityTextEnd, &next); ^ 10 errors detected in the compilation of "xmlparse/xmlparse.c". *** Error code 2 (bu21) *** Error code 1 (bu21) -- ***************************************************************************** Mr. Anantha Prasad Ph: (740)-368-0103 Ecologist/Spatial Analyst Fax: (740)-368-0152 N.E. Research Station Email: aprasad/ne_de@fs.fed.us USDA Forest Service http://www.fs.fed.us/ne/delaware/4153/4153.html 359 Main Rd. Don't Miss Global Change Study! Delaware OHIO 43015 NOTE: Global Change Atlas is now ON-LINE!! USA **************************************************************************** From DLesner123@aol.com Wed Oct 6 21:56:02 1999 From: DLesner123@aol.com (DLesner123@aol.com) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:56:02 EDT Subject: [XML-SIG] XML Event in San Francisco 10/14/99 Message-ID: <0.e41bc6da.252d1162@aol.com> The San Francisco Bay Area Association of Database Developers (ADD) will be holding its Annual Meeting on Thursday, October 14, from 6:45 PM to 10:00 PM. ADD is a nonprofit organization which currently runs Special Interest Groups that focus on FoxPro, Access and Internet database development. Location: SFSU Downtown Center 425 Market Street Room 2601 San Francisco, CA Food: This year we're providing a huge assortment of party platters from Chevy’s, along with cold beverages. Cost: The cost for guests, nonmembers, and expired members will be $10 for the presentation and an optional $10 for dinner. There is a five dollar discount on admission for members of the XML SIG. RSVP: Please RSVP via e-mail, and indicate whether you will be bringing one or more guests. Agenda: 6:45 - Check-in, renew memberships, website photos 7:00 - Dinner, introduction of board candidates, balloting 7:45 - Presentation 8:30 - 15-minute break, announcement of election results 8:45 - Presentation 9:45 - Wrap-up Speaker: Rick Strahl, West Wind Technologies Topic: Building Distributed Applications with XML This session introduces the concepts of building applications that share data and logic across the Web using HTTP and XML as the messaging mechanism. This session reviews the benefits of using XML for data representation and then describes examples of how you can use XML in distributed Web applications to communicate between client and server sides. The focus is on extending existing applications by using the Web and XML to extend existing functionality onto the Web. Rick will also introduce some powerful tools that simplify XML generation. Several examples will be shown on how to use XML on the different clients with data provided from the server. Visual FoxPro and Internet Explorer will be used to demonstrate, but the concepts can be applied to any programming language/environment that supports an XML parser and the ability to access the HTTP protocol to communicate with a Web server. Watch for updates at: http://www.baadd.org/main/news.html - Dean Lesner - Vice-president - SF Bay Area Association of Database Developers From gtk@well.com Mon Oct 11 22:41:30 1999 From: gtk@well.com (gtk) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:41:30 +1000 Subject: [XML-SIG] Win32 distribution of xml051.zip Message-ID: <008b01bf1431$640ba120$0b01010a@beetlejuice> I've just grabbed xml051.zip, but it doesn't look quite in condition for installation on my Win98 or WinNT machines. Can anyone point me towards a suitable archive and installation instructions for the same? ObContribution: I'm hell-bent on building a distributed system using Zope as the environment and XML-RPC as the glue, and will document all of the steps required to get there. All I need is a build. :) Regards, Garth. From tismer@appliedbiometrics.com Mon Oct 11 11:41:33 1999 From: tismer@appliedbiometrics.com (Christian Tismer) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:41:33 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] Win32 distribution of xml051.zip References: <008b01bf1431$640ba120$0b01010a@beetlejuice> Message-ID: <3801BEDD.BF17353B@appliedbiometrics.com> gtk wrote: > > I've just grabbed xml051.zip, but it doesn't look quite in condition for > installation on my Win98 or WinNT machines. Can anyone point me towards a > suitable archive and installation instructions for the same? Win installer executable: http://www.pns.cc/anonftp/pub/xml/PythonXML.EXE Wise source and support files: http://www.pns.cc/anonftp/pub/xml/Wise.zip ciao - chris > _______________________________________________ > XML-SIG maillist - XML-SIG@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/xml-sig From gtk@well.com Tue Oct 12 01:49:27 1999 From: gtk@well.com (gtk) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:49:27 +1000 Subject: [XML-SIG] Win32 0.5.2: No parsers found Message-ID: <00d101bf144b$a5a4b1c0$0b01010a@beetlejuice> I've run the PythonXML.exe Christian Tismer recommended, and it installed quite cleanly. Lots of fun to see versioncheck.py get confused, too. The DOM works just fine, but I've belatedly realised (perhaps it's time to pick up a basic XML book) that to build an object heirachy from an XML document via DOM would require me to more or less completely re-implement SAX. What a drag! So, I've tried running some of the SAX demos. Unfortunately, I don't appear to have any parsers installed: C:\Program Files\Python\xml\demo\quotes>python qtfmt.py sample.xml Traceback (innermost last): File "qtfmt.py", line 372, in ? p=saxexts.XMLParserFactory.make_parser("xml.sax.drivers.drv_pyexpat") File "C:\Program Files\Python\xml\sax\saxexts.py", line 65, in make_parser raise saxlib.SAXException("No parsers found",None) xml.sax.saxlib.SAXException: No parsers found Making sure that Python and Python\DLLs is on my PATH doesn't appear to help. From larsga@garshol.priv.no Mon Oct 11 14:21:15 1999 From: larsga@garshol.priv.no (Lars Marius Garshol) Date: 11 Oct 1999 15:21:15 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] Win32 0.5.2: No parsers found In-Reply-To: <00d101bf144b$a5a4b1c0$0b01010a@beetlejuice> References: <00d101bf144b$a5a4b1c0$0b01010a@beetlejuice> Message-ID: * gtk@well.com | | C:\Program Files\Python\xml\demo\quotes>python qtfmt.py sample.xml | Traceback (innermost last): | File "qtfmt.py", line 372, in ? | p=saxexts.XMLParserFactory.make_parser("xml.sax.drivers.drv_pyexpat") | File "C:\Program Files\Python\xml\sax\saxexts.py", line 65, in make_parser | raise saxlib.SAXException("No parsers found",None) | xml.sax.saxlib.SAXException: No parsers found The first thing to note here is that this demo seems to be hard-wired to use Expat. Try doing this: from xml.sax.drivers import drv_pyexpat in the Python interpreter and see what happens. If it can't find "pyexpat" then Expat isn't installed correctly. Then you can try: from xml.sax import saxexts print saxexts.make_parser().get_parser_name() If this prints a parser name, this is your default parser and you do have a parser installed. | Making sure that Python and Python\DLLs is on my PATH doesn't appear | to help. The PYTHONPATH and the Python registry settings are what matters, not the PATH variable. --Lars M. From fredrik@pythonware.com Mon Oct 11 15:49:35 1999 From: fredrik@pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:49:35 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] Win32 distribution of xml051.zip References: <008b01bf1431$640ba120$0b01010a@beetlejuice> Message-ID: <008e01bf13f7$d6d9a1a0$f29b12c2@secret.pythonware.com> > ObContribution: I'm hell-bent on building a distributed system using Zope as > the environment and XML-RPC as the glue, and will document all of the steps > required to get there. All I need is a build. :) no, you don't ;-) just skip over to http://www.pythonware.com/products/xmlrpc/ and grab the XML-RPC package. works right out of the box, with any stock Python 1.5.2 installation, on any platform. From tismer@appliedbiometrics.com Mon Oct 11 16:40:33 1999 From: tismer@appliedbiometrics.com (Christian Tismer) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:40:33 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] Win32 0.5.2: No parsers found References: <00d101bf144b$a5a4b1c0$0b01010a@beetlejuice> Message-ID: <380204F0.BB9B5255@appliedbiometrics.com> gtk wrote: > > I've run the PythonXML.exe Christian Tismer recommended, and it installed > quite cleanly. Lots of fun to see versioncheck.py get confused, too. The DOM > works just fine, but I've belatedly realised (perhaps it's time to pick up a > basic XML book) that to build an object heirachy from an XML document via > DOM would require me to more or less completely re-implement SAX. What a > drag! So, I've tried running some of the SAX demos. Unfortunately, I don't > appear to have any parsers installed: > > C:\Program Files\Python\xml\demo\quotes>python qtfmt.py sample.xml > Traceback (innermost last): > File "qtfmt.py", line 372, in ? > p=saxexts.XMLParserFactory.make_parser("xml.sax.drivers.drv_pyexpat") > File "C:\Program Files\Python\xml\sax\saxexts.py", line 65, in make_parser > raise saxlib.SAXException("No parsers found",None) > xml.sax.saxlib.SAXException: No parsers found > > Making sure that Python and Python\DLLs is on my PATH doesn't appear to > help. There are two errors. 1) xmltok.dll and xmlparse.dll were missing in that release. This would change when I create the installer again. 2) pyexpat is sitting in /python/DLLs, but the drv_pyexpat.py does an import "from xml.parsers import pyexpat". The same import is in drv_sgmlop.py, so does this mean that I should not use the DLLs directory at all but put it all into xml.parsers? Let me know, and I will update my installer. cheers - chris From tismer@appliedbiometrics.com Mon Oct 11 18:06:33 1999 From: tismer@appliedbiometrics.com (Christian Tismer) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:06:33 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] ANN: XML Win32 Installer Update 0.5.2 991011 References: <00d101bf144b$a5a4b1c0$0b01010a@beetlejuice> Message-ID: <38021918.8D10F35E@appliedbiometrics.com> There is an updated version of the XML installer for Windows package from October 11, 1999. The recent CVS snapshot is covered. Changes: An older version is detected and removed after confirmation. The DLL files are now installed into xml.parsers, no longer into the DLLs directory. Source files: ftp://pns.cc/pub/xml/Wise.zip or http://www.pns.cc/anonftp/pub/xml/Wise.zip Executable binary installer: ftp://pns.cc/pub/xml/PythonXML.EXE http://www.pns.cc/anonftp/pub/xml/PythonXML.EXE XML-maintainer: please update the Wise directory. ciao - chris Professional Net Service GmbH From gtk@well.com Tue Oct 12 10:15:44 1999 From: gtk@well.com (gtk) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:15:44 +1000 Subject: [XML-SIG] Win32 0.5.2: No parsers found References: <00d101bf144b$a5a4b1c0$0b01010a@beetlejuice> Message-ID: <001001bf1492$624a9920$0b01010a@beetlejuice> > The first thing to note here is that this demo seems to be hard-wired > to use Expat. Try doing this: > > from xml.sax.drivers import drv_pyexpat >>> from xml.sax.drivers import drv_pyexpat Traceback (innermost last): File "", line 1, in ? File "C:\Program Files\Python\xml\sax\drivers\drv_pyexpat.py", line 22, in ? from xml.parsers import pyexpat ImportError: cannot import name pyexpat pyexpat.dll is in the DLLs directory, but there's no xml\parsers\pyexpat.py > from xml.sax import saxexts > print saxexts.make_parser().get_parser_name() >>> from xml.sax import saxexts >>> print saxexts.make_parser().get_parser_name() xmlproc > The PYTHONPATH and the Python registry settings are what matters, not > the PATH variable. I tried adding Python\PythonCore\1.5\Modules\pyexpat with a default value of C:\Program Files\Python\DLLs\pyexpat.dll, but that didn't help. My current guess is that the distribution is missing a key file or two. I started with an empty system here -- just installed py152.exe, win32all-125.exe, and PythonXML.exe. Regards, Garth. From gtk@well.com Tue Oct 12 10:37:31 1999 From: gtk@well.com (gtk) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:37:31 +1000 Subject: [XML-SIG] Win32 0.5.2: No parsers found Message-ID: <005301bf1495$75b45b60$0b01010a@beetlejuice> > My current guess is that the distribution is missing a key file or two. I > started with an empty system here -- just installed py152.exe, > win32all-125.exe, and PythonXML.exe. Whoa! I'm a step behind. Should have read further ahead. Would have caught it, too, if it hadn't been for those pesky kids (read, incorrect "send immediately" setting). I've downloaded the new PythonXML, and from xml.sax.drivers import drv_pyexpat now works correctly. Wahoo! From GTUZMAN@sigs.com Tue Oct 12 20:50:44 1999 From: GTUZMAN@sigs.com (Gail Tuzman) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:50:44 -0400 Subject: [XML-SIG] XML Learning opportunity Message-ID: Just want to make sure fellow xml mailing list subscribers who plan to attend XML One Fall in Santa Clara, CA don't miss the early bird registration date and a chance to save $100. XML One Fall Conference: November 8-11, 1999 Exhibition: November 9-10, 1999 The Westin Santa Clara Santa Clara, CA Sponsored by IBM, Oracle, Sun, Object Design, Microsoft Save $100 - Register by October 15, 1999. If you didn't already know*. The conference program includes a wide range of 62 intensive sessions (a total of 88 combined hours of valuable instruction) totally devoted to XML technology including a session on Python and XML by Paul Prescod XML One Fall features 4 tracks to reflect the latest advances in XML technology. The top experts in the field will present day and night sessions and full-day tutorials and put together 4 action-packed days of non-stop learning. It's all centered around the topics you need to know. Tracks · XML-Based Content on the Internet · XML-Based Commerce on the Internet · Implementing XML-Based Software · XML in the Enterprise A two-day exhibition features leading vendors. You can test drive the latest products, have your questions answered, take a sneak preview of what's new and compare what works best for you. For complete details on the program visit the conference website at: http://www.xmlconference.com/xmlusa. You can get a free issue of Java Report just for visiting! From fred@ontosys.com Tue Oct 12 21:46:08 1999 From: fred@ontosys.com (Fred Yankowski) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:46:08 -0500 Subject: [XML-SIG] xbel demo fails importing Netscape bookmark data Message-ID: <19991012154608.A41755@enteract.com> Greetings, I'm getting reaquainted with the Python XML utilities after a long absence. My WinNT system has Python 1.5.2 and I installed the PythonXML.exe package just today. To test things out, I tried to use some of the xml/demo/xbel stuff. Specifically, I tried to convert my Netscape bookmarks to XML/XBEL format as follows python ns_parse.py 'f:\program files\netscape\users\me\bookmark.htm' This resulted in an exception: File "ns_parse.py", line 86, in ? p.setDocumentHandler(ns_handler) File "J:\Program Files\Python\xml\sax\drivers\drv_sgmlop.py", line 29, in setDocumentHandler self.parser.register(DHWrapper(dh), 1) TypeError: function requires exactly 1 argument; 2 given So I hacked drv_sgmlop.py to remove that second (1) actual parameter. Now the program runs to completion, but I get an essentially empty XBEL document as output: No description I enabled some debug prints in the startElement method, which showed that that method is *never* being called for my document. I hacked ns_parse.py to call get_parser_name(), which reported "sgmlop" -- no big surprise given the above exception. Noodling around in the xml-sig archive for hints, I was inspired to try the pyexpat parser instead of sgmlop, which I enabled by calling make_parser this way: p=saxexts.SGMLParserFactory.make_parser("xml.sax.drivers.drv_pyexpat") With that change, I still get an empty XBEL document, but the startElement method *is* being called a few times. I hacked ns_parse.py again to add warning(), error(), and fatalError() methods and called setErrorHandler() to register them. Now I see a fatal error after the first element in the bookmark.htm file. xml.sax.saxlib.SAXParseException: junk after document element at :6:0 I think it's unhappy that the bookmark.htm file is not a well-formed document. It's a sequence of elements with no enclosing element. I added an enclosing HTML element to bookmarks.htm but now the parser fails a bit later on, saying xml.sax.saxlib.SAXParseException: not well-formed at :6:75 (BTW, WTH does that ":6:75" indicate? Based on the startElement trace, it got confused on line 10 of the file.) I think it's unhappy with an H3 element that looks like this

Whatever

Is that valueless 'FOLDED' attribute the problem? ================ So, these tests make the XML package look alpha quality at best. Am I trying to use code that is known to be broken? Is this problem limited to the xbel stuff? It sure looks like the SAX driver for sgmlop is broken. What part of the XML distribution is thought to be stable? -- Fred Yankowski fred@OntoSys.com From edd@usefulinc.com Wed Oct 13 09:48:13 1999 From: edd@usefulinc.com (Edd Dumbill) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:48:13 +0000 Subject: [XML-SIG] XML Learning opportunity In-Reply-To: ; from Gail Tuzman on Tue, Oct 12, 1999 at 03:50:44PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <19991013084813.M6349@heddley.com> On Tue, Oct 12, 1999 at 03:50:44PM -0400, Gail Tuzman wrote: > Just want to make sure fellow xml mailing list subscribers who plan to > attend XML One Fall in Santa Clara, CA don't miss the early bird > registration date and a chance to save $100. People may be interested in the report we're running on XMLhack.com on XML One Europe, held recently in London, UK. -- Edd Dumbill ------/ a new media consultant, writer & technologist /-- | Publishing Editor, xmlhack.com | Director, Useful Information Company : Internet Director, Pharmalicensing : UK voice/msg: +44 702-093-6870 UK fax: +44 870-164-0230 From larsga@garshol.priv.no Wed Oct 13 20:02:32 1999 From: larsga@garshol.priv.no (Lars Marius Garshol) Date: 13 Oct 1999 21:02:32 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] SAX2 alpha Message-ID: I've finally been able to reconcile Uche's and my SAX2 proposals and have also put together a first draft of a SAX2 driver for xmlproc. This can be found at: but please note that this is a test page as is the release itself. I will post some questions/issues later and also check the code into the CVS tree, but right now I haven't eaten since lunch, my head is spinning and the shops are closing soon. Bugfixed and extended SAX drivers will also appear and hopefully also some new drivers (SPIN_py, SP ESIS, JPython Java SAX). If anyone has patches/fixes/drivers feel free to send them to me or post them here. Oh, and comments and bug reports are of course most welcome. --Lars M. From Fred L. Drake, Jr." I've added a new directory, demo/genxml/, to the CVS repository. The demo shows how to generate XML from a non-XML source using DOM, SAX, and .write(). A while ago someone asked about this and I promised I'd write something similar to a Java example that I'd seen, so here it is. ;-) One issue: when using xml.sax.saxutils.Canonizer, the newlines that I pass in through .ignorableWhitespace() are written out as rather than actual newlines; is that right? I'd like to be able to generate "normal" line terminations. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. Corporation for National Research Initiatives From larsga@garshol.priv.no Thu Oct 14 18:35:01 1999 From: larsga@garshol.priv.no (Lars Marius Garshol) Date: 14 Oct 1999 19:35:01 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] New demo added to CVS In-Reply-To: <14341.65153.512651.212903@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> References: <14341.65153.512651.212903@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: * Fred L. Drake, Jr. | | I've added a new directory, demo/genxml/, to the CVS repository. | The demo shows how to generate XML from a non-XML source using DOM, | SAX, and .write(). Great! This sounds very useful. | One issue: when using xml.sax.saxutils.Canonizer, the newlines that | I pass in through .ignorableWhitespace() are written out as | rather than actual newlines; is that right? It used to be, but I haven't checked the W3C draft yet. In any case, Canonizer might not be the thing to use, since it does stuff like sorting attributes by name etc, which might not be desirable. I think Geir Ove has some pretty-printing DocumentHandler somewhere in xmlarch and there may be another one as well. Those are probably much better choices for this. --Lars M. From obenassy@magic.fr Fri Oct 15 14:17:13 1999 From: obenassy@magic.fr (Odile =?iso-8859-1?Q?B=E9nassy?=) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:17:13 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] SAX2 alpha References: Message-ID: <38072959.AEC3D656@magic.fr> Lars Marius Garshol wrote: > > I've finally been able to reconcile Uche's and my SAX2 proposals and > have also put together a first draft of a SAX2 driver for xmlproc. > > This can be found at: > > > > but please note that this is a test page as is the release itself. Ok Lars I'm planning very seriously to use xmlproc for an edu application, so this is good news to me. (I would like to use Pyexpat and apparently SAX2 might help, or ?) Yet : would'nt you be able, please, to offer us a possibility of downloading under Linux, some kind of .tar.gz archive or so ?? -- Odile Bénassy, "http://perso.magic.fr/obenassy/" From uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com Thu Oct 21 20:41:34 1999 From: uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com (uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:41:34 -0600 Subject: [XML-SIG] ANN: 4XSLT 0.7.2 Message-ID: <199910211941.NAA32463@malatesta.local> FourThought LLC (http://FourThought.com) announces the release of 4XSLT 0.7.2 ----------------------- A python implementation of the W3C's XSLT language 4XSLT is an XML transformation processor based on the W3C's specification for the XSLT transform language. http://www.w3.org/TR/xslt Currently, 4XSLT supports a sub-set of the October 8th working draft of XSLT including the following: Full expression support and attribute-value template expansion xsl:include xsl:import xsl:template xsl:apply-imports xsl:apply-templates xsl:copy xsl:call-template xsl:if xsl:for-each xsl:choose xsl:element xsl:when xsl:attribute xsl:otherwise xsl:text xsl:message xsl:value-of xsl:variable xsl:processing-instruction xsl:param xsl:comment xsl:with-param xsl:strip-space xsl:key xsl:preserve-space xsl:copy-of and, of course, literal elements and text 4XSLT produces its result tree by throwing events from the emerging SAX 2 standard to a handler, so it can be easily modified to supply results to any SAX 2 consumer. News ---- Changes in 0.7.2 ---------------- - Implemented named templates - Implemented the following instructions: o comment o copy o call-template o param o with-param - Packaging and implementation bug-fixes More info and Obtaining 4XSLT ----------------------------- Please see http://FourThought.com/4Suite/4XSLT Or you can download 4XSLT from ftp://FourThought.com/pub/4Suite/4XSLT 4XSLT is distributed under a license similar to that of Python. -- Uche Ogbuji uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com Consulting Member, FourThought LLC http://FourThought.com http://OpenTechnology.org From uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com Thu Oct 21 20:42:51 1999 From: uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com (uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:42:51 -0600 Subject: [XML-SIG] ANN: 4DOM 0.8.2 Message-ID: <199910211942.NAA32476@malatesta.local> FourThought LLC (http://FourThought.com) announces the release of 4DOM 0.8.2 ----------------------- An XML/HTML Python library using the Document Object Model interface 4DOM is a Python library for XML and HTML processing and manipulation using the W3C's Document Object Model for interface. 4DOM supports DOM all of Level 1 (core and HTML), as well as Document Traversal from Level 2. 4DOM also adds some helper components for DOM Tree creation and printing, python integration, white-space manipulation, etc. 4DOM can work in a CORBA* enviroment, or in a purely local set-up. 4DOM is designed to allow developers rapidly design applications that read, write or manipulate HTML and XML. News ---- Changes: - Create a Reader module under Ext for importing strings into 4DOM. Builder is now deprecated and will disappear before version 1.0 o Reader has three drivers currently: Sax and HtmlLib are just modularized versions of the functionality that was formerly in Builder, and Sax2 is a driver for the as-yet experimental SAX 2 specification. - Fixed a Builder/Reader bug for HTML input and empty, unclosed tags such as
- Fixed a bug in text normalization - Miscellaneous bug-fixes More info and Obtaining 4DOM ---------------------------- Please see http://FourThought.com/4Suite/4DOM Or you can download 4DOM from ftp://FourThought.com/pub/4Suite/4DOM 4DOM is distributed under a license similar to that of Python. *For CORBA users, 4DOM directly supports ILU and Fnorb. -- Uche Ogbuji uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com Consulting Member, FourThought LLC http://FourThought.com http://OpenTechnology.org From uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com Thu Oct 21 20:42:53 1999 From: uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com (uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:42:53 -0600 Subject: [XML-SIG] ANN: 4XPath 0.7.2 Message-ID: <199910211942.NAA32485@malatesta.local> FourThought LLC (http://FourThought.com) announces the release of 4XPath 0.7.2 ----------------------- A python implementation of the W3C's XPath language 4XPath implements the W3C XPath language for indicating and selecting XML document components. http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath 4XPath implements the full 4XPath specification except for the lang core function. News ---- This version fixes several packaging and implementation bug-fixes. More info and Obtaining 4XPath ----------------------------- Please see http://FourThought.com/4Suite/4XPath Or you can download 4XPath from ftp://FourThought.com/pub/4Suite/4XPath 4XPath is distributed under a license similar to that of Python. -- Uche Ogbuji uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com Consulting Member, FourThought LLC http://FourThought.com http://OpenTechnology.org From guido@CNRI.Reston.VA.US Mon Oct 25 15:17:42 1999 From: guido@CNRI.Reston.VA.US (Guido van Rossum) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:17:42 -0400 Subject: [XML-SIG] Scriptics Connect Message-ID: <199910251417.KAA02948@eric.cnri.reston.va.us> Scriptics (John Ousterhout's Tcl/Tk company) has launched an XML offensive called Scriptics Connect. See http://www.scriptics.com/products/connect/ Has anyone seen this in action? What should be our response? Python used to be #1 in the XML scripting world -- lately, I don't see that much activity... :-( --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) From fcy@acm.org Mon Oct 25 15:47:24 1999 From: fcy@acm.org (Fred Yankowski) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:47:24 -0500 Subject: [XML-SIG] Scriptics Connect In-Reply-To: <199910251417.KAA02948@eric.cnri.reston.va.us> References: <199910251417.KAA02948@eric.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <19991025094724.A3540@enteract.com> On Mon, Oct 25, 1999 at 10:17:42AM -0400, Guido van Rossum wrote: > Has anyone seen this in action? What should be our response? Python > used to be #1 in the XML scripting world -- lately, I don't see that > much activity... :-( Well, what's our goal? The XML-SIG page says: With appropriate software packages, documentation, and a bit of publicity, Python could become the premier language for XML processing. The goal of this SIG is to decide what software is required for this purpose, and coordinate its implementation and documentation. So, where is the SIG falling short? Is there specific XML processing functionality that is missing? If so, what is the most important? Is the Python XML software too hard to install? Is the main problem a lack of documentation and examples? What are the most important problems that the XML-SIG could/should address now? -- Fred Yankowski P.S. I've seen the "wish list" on the XML-SIG status page, but it seems to be a grab-bag of ideas that might not be current or complete, and the priorities are not obvious. From prb@uic.edu Mon Oct 25 16:17:06 1999 From: prb@uic.edu (Paul R. Brown) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:17:06 -0500 Subject: [XML-SIG] Scriptics Connect In-Reply-To: <19991025094724.A3540@enteract.com> Message-ID: I agree with Fred's questions. I also think that good products -- or even good looking products -- are discouraging to see. I consistently think, "Doh. I thought about doing that." But then I think of something else... IMHO, the XML world is by no means fully formed. XPath is young, schemas are just out of the gate, and there are still a *huge* number of problems to solve. The buffet of fun stuff to do is going to remain open for a long time. If we want to energize ourselves, let's pick a problem and work on it as a group. Any suggestions? - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: xml-sig-admin@python.org [mailto:xml-sig-admin@python.org]On > Behalf Of Fred Yankowski > Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 9:47 AM > Cc: xml-sig@python.org > Subject: Re: [XML-SIG] Scriptics Connect > > > On Mon, Oct 25, 1999 at 10:17:42AM -0400, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > Has anyone seen this in action? What should be our response? Python > > used to be #1 in the XML scripting world -- lately, I don't see that > > much activity... :-( > > Well, what's our goal? The XML-SIG page says: > > With appropriate software packages, documentation, and a bit > of publicity, Python could become the premier language for XML > processing. The goal of this SIG is to decide what software is > required for this purpose, and coordinate its implementation > and documentation. > > So, where is the SIG falling short? Is there specific XML processing > functionality that is missing? If so, what is the most important? Is > the Python XML software too hard to install? Is the main problem a > lack of documentation and examples? What are the most important > problems that the XML-SIG could/should address now? > > -- > Fred Yankowski > > > P.S. I've seen the "wish list" on the XML-SIG status page, but it > seems to be a grab-bag of ideas that might not be current or complete, > and the priorities are not obvious. > > _______________________________________________ > XML-SIG maillist - XML-SIG@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/xml-sig > From mgushee@havenrock.com Mon Oct 25 17:43:25 1999 From: mgushee@havenrock.com (Matt Gushee) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [XML-SIG] Scriptics Connect In-Reply-To: References: <19991025094724.A3540@enteract.com> Message-ID: <14356.34989.464698.534617@3203-maine-56k.ime.net> Paul R. Brown writes: > > I also think that good products -- or even good looking products -- are > discouraging to see. I consistently think, "Doh. I thought about doing > that." But then I think of something else... > IMHO, the XML world is by no means fully formed. So maybe it's a problem of style over substance. Scriptics is a *business*, after all, doing what businesses do best. And if their product becomes widely adopted, though it lacks substance (hypothetically speaking), then it becomes an uphill battle for everyone who's trying to do the job right. If that is the case, well, that's the marketplace for ya. The fact that XML-SIG can't offer a comparable product doesn't indicate any shortcomings. XML-SIG isn't a business. If we want to succeed in that environment -- much as I hate to say it -- maybe we need a company like Scriptics to push our language. Matt Gushee Portland, Maine, USA mgushee@havenrock.com From akuchlin@mems-exchange.org Mon Oct 25 19:15:49 1999 From: akuchlin@mems-exchange.org (Andrew M. Kuchling) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:15:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [XML-SIG] Scriptics Connect In-Reply-To: <19991025094724.A3540@enteract.com> References: <199910251417.KAA02948@eric.cnri.reston.va.us> <19991025094724.A3540@enteract.com> Message-ID: <14356.40533.429456.916508@amarok.cnri.reston.va.us> Fred Yankowski writes: >So, where is the SIG falling short? Is there specific XML processing >functionality that is missing? If so, what is the most important? Is >the Python XML software too hard to install? Is the main problem a >lack of documentation and examples? What are the most important >problems that the XML-SIG could/should address now? We just need to *finish*, so we can put a 1.0 on the thing. Finish some form of namespace support, find a solution for UTF-8 and Unicode, finish optimizing the DOM implementation, finish the demos and documentation. The UTF-8 problem is the most messy one, and depends on things external to the XML-SIG, namely Python's Unicode support. Expat outputs UTF-8 by default, but sgmlop doesn't (can't remember what xmlproc does) and you need a way to convert from UTF-8 to Latin1, Unicode, or whatever. What's the plan, here? Fredrik's Unicode type, MvL's wstring, or something else? (String-SIG topic.) -- A.M. Kuchling http://starship.python.net/crew/amk/ The Answers to these Frequently Asked Questions have been verified by Encyclopedia Britannica. They have not, however, been verified to be *correct*. -- The alt.religion.kibology FAQ From srn@techno.com Tue Oct 26 00:23:36 1999 From: srn@techno.com (Steven R. Newcomb) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:23:36 -0500 Subject: [XML-SIG] Scriptics Connect In-Reply-To: <199910251417.KAA02948@eric.cnri.reston.va.us> (message from Guido van Rossum on Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:17:42 -0400) References: <199910251417.KAA02948@eric.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <199910252323.SAA01309@bruno.techno.com> > Python > used to be #1 in the XML scripting world -- lately, I don't see that > much activity... :-( Don't despair. So far, anyway, the most-used API to GroveMinder is the Python API. See http://www.techno.com. GroveMinder offers the most powerful and most internationally standard API to XML and SGML resources (as well as to other kinds of resources). GroveMinder supports ISO HyTime linking (on which the extended form of XLink is based). For their development work, our users seem to prefer Python over Visual Basic and C++. And who can blame them? -Steve -- Steven R. Newcomb, President, TechnoTeacher, Inc. srn@techno.com http://www.techno.com ftp.techno.com voice: +1 972 527 8553 <<-- new phone number, temporary fax +1 972 517 4571 <<-- new fax number, permanent pager (150 characters max): srn-page@techno.com Suite 211 7101 Chase Oaks Boulevard Plano, Texas 75025 USA From paul@prescod.net Tue Oct 26 04:55:49 1999 From: paul@prescod.net (Paul Prescod) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:55:49 -0400 Subject: [XML-SIG] Scriptics Connect References: <199910251417.KAA02948@eric.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <38150A25.CDC20A99@prescod.net> Guido van Rossum wrote: > > Scriptics (John Ousterhout's Tcl/Tk company) has launched an XML > offensive called Scriptics Connect. > > See http://www.scriptics.com/products/connect/ > > Has anyone seen this in action? What should be our response? Scriptics connect seems to be much more competitive with Zope than with anything from the XML group. Our response could only be more and more XML support in Zope. At one point they talked about integrating the 4thought stuff. That would be cool.... Paul Prescod From paul@prescod.net Tue Oct 26 04:56:17 1999 From: paul@prescod.net (Paul Prescod) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:56:17 -0400 Subject: [XML-SIG] Scriptics Connect References: <199910251417.KAA02948@eric.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <38150A41.A5F3C4B@prescod.net> Guido van Rossum wrote: > >Python > used to be #1 in the XML scripting world -- lately, I don't see that > much activity... :-( I think that's just a sign of the maturity of the product. We've implemented all of the obvious standards that are stable. XML is about standards -- we support them as well as anyone except Java (thanks in large part to the 4Thought guys) so I think that's a major "win". I think that the XML SIG has closely mirrored the work on regular expressions. People worked really hard to get to the point where Python was "Perl compatible" and then haven't tried to push past that. A huge difference between the Python world and the other scripting languages is that Python's XML implementations tend (like Java's) towards standards like SAX, DOM, XSLT and so forth where other languges are more focused on (what I would call) idiosyncratic weirdness. That means that when standards are developed Python people are really quick to support them (we have several DOMs, a few XPaths, great object marshalling and so forth) and when there are no new standards we don't do much. Because Python people are often refugees from other languages I think that we are also less inclined to adopt idiosyncratic stuff even if it WERE invented. People in, um, other communities are more, uh, accustomed to working with "weird non-standard stuff". In terms of advocacy, you'll be glad to know that people in the XML newsgroups are afraid to mention any collection of programming languages without mentioning Python for fear of the inevitable followup: > Same with the System identifier of the > DTD, although you may need to put the right thing there with perl or > omnimark or Python (hi Paul!) or whatever. Paul Prescod From paul@prescod.net Tue Oct 26 04:56:23 1999 From: paul@prescod.net (Paul Prescod) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:56:23 -0400 Subject: [XML-SIG] What should we be doing? References: <199910251417.KAA02948@eric.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <38150A47.64EE9DE7@prescod.net> Guido van Rossum wrote: > Has anyone seen this in action? What should be our response? Python > used to be #1 in the XML scripting world -- lately, I don't see that > much activity... :-( My only major concern with the distribution is that it is too hard to use. There are little bits spread all over the Internet, they compete with each other in confusing ways. They aren't that easy to install. The SIG distribution is too large. We need Python 1.6 or 1.53 to have "Python batteries included". I would suggest we should evaluate the 4thought stuff (minus CORBA (sorry!)) from that point of view. As an integrated package it is incredibly powerful and competitive with anything they have in the Java world. And we should finish and standardize EasySAX -- perhaps with an eye to stealing some ideas from SAXON. Paul Prescod From greg.duncan@tpg.com.au Tue Oct 26 06:46:50 1999 From: greg.duncan@tpg.com.au (Greg Duncan) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:46:50 +1000 Subject: [XML-SIG] What should we be doing? References: <199910251417.KAA02948@eric.cnri.reston.va.us> <38150A47.64EE9DE7@prescod.net> Message-ID: <002d01bf1f75$918fac50$4a4411cb@LDAP> Paul, Further to my earlier comments, I tried the 4Thought package and the same comments apply, you just can't take it out of the box and run it, and the documentation is not brilliant. I ended up writing my own module to implement the DOM as it was faster than mucking around with someone elses code. In fairness though I did use this exercise to bring myself up to speed on python and refresh some XML concepts as I have been doing 'other stuff' for the past 12 months. I certanly beileve enough in python / XML that I would be prepared to spend some of my personal time organising resources and testing updating documentation for the python XML community - an advantage as being relatively new to python, I don't make the same assumptions that you do. If this interests anyone then let me know! _____________________________________________ Greg Duncan ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Prescod To: Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 1:56 PM Subject: [XML-SIG] What should we be doing? > Guido van Rossum wrote: > > Has anyone seen this in action? What should be our response? Python > > used to be #1 in the XML scripting world -- lately, I don't see that > > much activity... :-( > > My only major concern with the distribution is that it is too hard to > use. There are little bits spread all over the Internet, they compete > with each other in confusing ways. They aren't that easy to install. The > SIG distribution is too large. We need Python 1.6 or 1.53 to have > "Python batteries included". > > I would suggest we should evaluate the 4thought stuff (minus CORBA > (sorry!)) from that point of view. As an integrated package it is > incredibly powerful and competitive with anything they have in the Java > world. And we should finish and standardize EasySAX -- perhaps with an > eye to stealing some ideas from SAXON. > > Paul Prescod > > _______________________________________________ > XML-SIG maillist - XML-SIG@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/xml-sig > From larsga@garshol.priv.no Tue Oct 26 07:59:15 1999 From: larsga@garshol.priv.no (Lars Marius Garshol) Date: 26 Oct 1999 08:59:15 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] Scriptics Connect In-Reply-To: <14356.40533.429456.916508@amarok.cnri.reston.va.us> References: <199910251417.KAA02948@eric.cnri.reston.va.us> <19991025094724.A3540@enteract.com> <14356.40533.429456.916508@amarok.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: * Andrew M. Kuchling | | Expat outputs UTF-8 by default, but sgmlop doesn't (can't remember | what xmlproc does) What you give is what you get. Ie: for the moment it doesn't do anything about the character encoding it receives. | and you need a way to convert from UTF-8 to Latin1, Unicode, or | whatever. xmlproc has Python code to do a few conversions in its charconv module. This includes UTF-8 converters, but those are _way_ too slow to be of any practical interest to anyone. | What's the plan, here? Fredrik's Unicode type, MvL's wstring, or | something else? (String-SIG topic.) Unless I'm much mistaken, MvL's stuff has been discarded in favour of Fredrik's. (Correct me if I indeed am mistaken.) Anyway, what the plan is depends on the String SIG, and we'll just have to follow their lead. I'd be very happy to add Unicode support to xmlproc (and some encoding negotiation support to SAX2), but at the moment I've given this low priority and in any case I am (like you) uncertain what to do. --Lars M. From greg.duncan@tpg.com.au Tue Oct 26 02:02:08 1999 From: greg.duncan@tpg.com.au (Greg Duncan) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:02:08 +1000 Subject: [XML-SIG] Scriptics Connect References: <199910251417.KAA02948@eric.cnri.reston.va.us> <19991025094724.A3540@enteract.com> Message-ID: <001201bf1f4d$bd2e3c50$4a4411cb@LDAP> That is precisley the problem that should be addressed - documentation. As a relatively new user to PYTHON but with 9 years SGML / XML experience, I was struggling to lean the language (not too hard) and deal with the XML tool kits and public domain software. I found that in some cases it was easier to write something myself rather than to deal with a peice of software I had found on the net. In many instances the documentation was completly wrong or referred to an earlier version. If we want Joe Public to accept python as a serious tool for XML processing then it sure needs to be made easier to get up to speed. My 2c for what it's worth _____________________________________________ Greg Duncan Moore Business Systems Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Yankowski Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 12:47 AM Subject: Re: [XML-SIG] Scriptics Connect > On Mon, Oct 25, 1999 at 10:17:42AM -0400, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > Has anyone seen this in action? What should be our response? Python > > used to be #1 in the XML scripting world -- lately, I don't see that > > much activity... :-( > > Well, what's our goal? The XML-SIG page says: > > With appropriate software packages, documentation, and a bit > of publicity, Python could become the premier language for XML > processing. The goal of this SIG is to decide what software is > required for this purpose, and coordinate its implementation > and documentation. > > So, where is the SIG falling short? Is there specific XML processing > functionality that is missing? If so, what is the most important? Is > the Python XML software too hard to install? Is the main problem a > lack of documentation and examples? What are the most important > problems that the XML-SIG could/should address now? > > -- > Fred Yankowski > > > P.S. I've seen the "wish list" on the XML-SIG status page, but it > seems to be a grab-bag of ideas that might not be current or complete, > and the priorities are not obvious. > > _______________________________________________ > XML-SIG maillist - XML-SIG@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/xml-sig > From ametzger@varcom.com Tue Oct 26 19:15:51 1999 From: ametzger@varcom.com (Aaron Metzger) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:15:51 -0400 Subject: [XML-SIG] Scriptics Connect References: <199910251417.KAA02948@eric.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <3815EFD7.66A055F0@varcom.com> Guido van Rossum wrote: > > Scriptics (John Ousterhout's Tcl/Tk company) has launched an XML > offensive called Scriptics Connect. > > See http://www.scriptics.com/products/connect/ > This may be a bit off topic (and probably obvious to a well informed SIG) but I thought I would share my "workaround" for achieving XML/XSLT support in Python from existing mature components... I "worked around" the lack of complete XML support in Python by using JPython and then taking advantage of the excellent java XML parser from IBM available at: www.alphaworks.ibm.com (source available but not "open") and the XSLT processor (XSL:P) available at: www.clc-marketing.com/xslp (open source) XSLP can be used with other parsers such as the openxml parser. XSLP also allows you to plug in your own scripting engine (non-standard extension) to use within element transforms. I plugged JPython in as my choice of scripting engine. In this way I ended up with Python above and Python below with just a bit of Java squeezed in the middle. -- Aaron From fredrik@pythonware.com Wed Oct 27 16:10:54 1999 From: fredrik@pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:10:54 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] Scriptics Connect References: <199910251417.KAA02948@eric.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <017301bf208d$77ad8000$f29b12c2@secret.pythonware.com> Guido van Rossum wrote: > Scriptics (John Ousterhout's Tcl/Tk company) has launched an XML > offensive called Scriptics Connect. > > See http://www.scriptics.com/products/connect/ > > Has anyone seen this in action? What should be our response? Python > used to be #1 in the XML scripting world -- lately, I don't see that > much activity... :-( from the original press release (when it was called BizConnect): A single user development version of BizConnect is available for $5,000, with a group development version available for $12,500. Deployment licenses start at $50,000 for computer systems with up to 4 processors. guess you could start selling XML-SIG distributions via the consortium? (buy one, and get a full membership for free! ;-) From Mike.Olson@FourThought.com Wed Oct 27 17:17:10 1999 From: Mike.Olson@FourThought.com (Mike Olson) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:17:10 -0600 Subject: [XML-SIG] What should we be doing? References: <199910251417.KAA02948@eric.cnri.reston.va.us> <38150A47.64EE9DE7@prescod.net> <002d01bf1f75$918fac50$4a4411cb@LDAP> Message-ID: <38172586.15EB92F5@FourThought.com> This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------msD31F0B1E36ECE88D04AED7D2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for all of the feed back on the 4Suite tools. We have been working on packaging and setup in the last few releases and has improved steadily thanks to direct feedback from users. If you are still having problems with installation, you might want to try the latest versions. If you are trying the latest versions please send us feed back and we will look into any problems. As for documentation we only document things that are not in the offical specs. One last note about our CORBA support. Non CORBA installation of 4DOM has been available for many versions. In an orbless install the CORBA like files are just dummies and don't degrade performance. We do plan to release a version without any CORBA infastructure in the core package. Mike Greg Duncan wrote: > Paul, > > Further to my earlier comments, I tried the 4Thought package and the same > comments apply, you just can't take it out of the box and run it, and the > documentation is not brilliant. > > I ended up writing my own module to implement the DOM as it was faster than > mucking around with someone elses code. In fairness though I did use this > exercise to bring myself up to speed on python and refresh some XML concepts > as I have been doing 'other stuff' for the past 12 months. > > I certanly beileve enough in python / XML that I would be prepared to spend > some of my personal time organising resources and testing updating > documentation for the python XML community - an advantage as being > relatively new to python, I don't make the same assumptions that you do. > > If this interests anyone then let me know! > > _____________________________________________ > Greg Duncan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Prescod > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 1:56 PM > Subject: [XML-SIG] What should we be doing? > > > Guido van Rossum wrote: > > > Has anyone seen this in action? What should be our response? Python > > > used to be #1 in the XML scripting world -- lately, I don't see that > > > much activity... :-( > > > > My only major concern with the distribution is that it is too hard to > > use. There are little bits spread all over the Internet, they compete > > with each other in confusing ways. They aren't that easy to install. The > > SIG distribution is too large. We need Python 1.6 or 1.53 to have > > "Python batteries included". > > > > I would suggest we should evaluate the 4thought stuff (minus CORBA > > (sorry!)) from that point of view. As an integrated package it is > > incredibly powerful and competitive with anything they have in the Java > > world. And we should finish and standardize EasySAX -- perhaps with an > > eye to stealing some ideas from SAXON. > > > > Paul Prescod > > > > _______________________________________________ > > XML-SIG maillist - XML-SIG@python.org > > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/xml-sig > > > > _______________________________________________ > XML-SIG maillist - XML-SIG@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/xml-sig -- ---------------- Mike Olson Consulting Member FourThought LLC http://www.fourthought.com http://opentechnology.org --------------msD31F0B1E36ECE88D04AED7D2 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIIKpgYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIKlzCCCpMCAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCC CDIwggT8MIIEZaADAgECAhBgV5Y2xbIHJpkIwhs+UflwMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAMIHMMRcw FQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UECxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29y azFGMEQGA1UECxM9d3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9yZXBvc2l0b3J5L1JQQSBJbmNvcnAuIEJ5 IFJlZi4sTElBQi5MVEQoYyk5ODFIMEYGA1UEAxM/VmVyaVNpZ24gQ2xhc3MgMSBDQSBJbmRp dmlkdWFsIFN1YnNjcmliZXItUGVyc29uYSBOb3QgVmFsaWRhdGVkMB4XDTk5MDUwNjAwMDAw MFoXDTAwMDUwNTIzNTk1OVowggEXMRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UE CxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29yazFGMEQGA1UECxM9d3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9y ZXBvc2l0b3J5L1JQQSBJbmNvcnAuIGJ5IFJlZi4sTElBQi5MVEQoYyk5ODEeMBwGA1UECxMV UGVyc29uYSBOb3QgVmFsaWRhdGVkMTMwMQYDVQQLEypEaWdpdGFsIElEIENsYXNzIDEgLSBO ZXRzY2FwZSBGdWxsIFNlcnZpY2UxEzARBgNVBAMUCk1pa2UgT2xzb24xKTAnBgkqhkiG9w0B CQEWGm1pa2Uub2xzb25AZm91cnRob3VnaHQuY29tMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4GNADCB iQKBgQCuk+Frgbi1QG7ni53t3TaFTU5IXKp/aOYYXaR/iPN9Ure9P6fAajZIDUXyR+bCIe8U Sq1kHjMNbb/ziX3/oPPeUy3Cy1sVZ/Cq2FPofSInSaLl0EB+k0aMbEBtmyVxTGByoNaPL3Lj Er/aLaIkNcPIaCzT0okEOA/pu9RU0efBaQIDAQABo4IBjzCCAYswCQYDVR0TBAIwADCBrAYD VR0gBIGkMIGhMIGeBgtghkgBhvhFAQcBATCBjjAoBggrBgEFBQcCARYcaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cu dmVyaXNpZ24uY29tL0NQUzBiBggrBgEFBQcCAjBWMBUWDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMAMCAQEa PVZlcmlTaWduJ3MgQ1BTIGluY29ycC4gYnkgcmVmZXJlbmNlIGxpYWIuIGx0ZC4gKGMpOTcg VmVyaVNpZ24wEQYJYIZIAYb4QgEBBAQDAgeAMIGGBgpghkgBhvhFAQYDBHgWdmQ0NjUyYmQ2 M2YyMDQ3MDI5Mjk4NzYzYzlkMmYyNzUwNjljNzM1OWJlZDFiMDU5ZGE3NWJjNGJjOTcwMTc0 N2RhNWQzZjIxNDFiZWFkYjJiZDJlODkyMTNhZTZhZjlkZjExNDk5OWEzYjg0NWY5ZjNlYTQ1 MGMwMwYDVR0fBCwwKjAooCagJIYiaHR0cDovL2NybC52ZXJpc2lnbi5jb20vY2xhc3MxLmNy bDANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFAAOBgQB8SeBjPc9TSSC1iwIP0gVMzQVGkcPG4I/yoMUFK1CfgW6T dvtP5z9WNcSIfQ8mIjsl/jbwnfYevfK0EiCjU5slnsOjrbIiWwRe7qYBuGqE6gnfkhMRt8l3 ZJe2AqRptWZYY8axL5nQm0iSnVEmYoZAtAnQkkldheTU4n+x9vlUHjCCAy4wggKXoAMCAQIC EQDSdi6NFAw9fbKoJV2v7g11MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAgUAMF8xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRcwFQYD VQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjE3MDUGA1UECxMuQ2xhc3MgMSBQdWJsaWMgUHJpbWFyeSBD ZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTAeFw05ODA1MTIwMDAwMDBaFw0wODA1MTIyMzU5NTla MIHMMRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UECxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3Qg TmV0d29yazFGMEQGA1UECxM9d3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9yZXBvc2l0b3J5L1JQQSBJbmNv cnAuIEJ5IFJlZi4sTElBQi5MVEQoYyk5ODFIMEYGA1UEAxM/VmVyaVNpZ24gQ2xhc3MgMSBD QSBJbmRpdmlkdWFsIFN1YnNjcmliZXItUGVyc29uYSBOb3QgVmFsaWRhdGVkMIGfMA0GCSqG SIb3DQEBAQUAA4GNADCBiQKBgQC7WkSKBBa7Vf0DeootlE8VeDa4DUqyb5xUv7zodyqdufBo u5XZMUFweoFLuUgTVi3HCOGEQqvAopKrRFyqQvCCDgLpL/vCO7u+yScKXbawNkIztW5UiE+H Sr8Z2vkV6A+HthzjzMaajn9qJJLj/OBluqexfu/J2zdqyErICQbkmQIDAQABo3wwejARBglg hkgBhvhCAQEEBAMCAQYwRwYDVR0gBEAwPjA8BgtghkgBhvhFAQcBATAtMCsGCCsGAQUFBwIB Fh93d3cudmVyaXNpZ24uY29tL3JlcG9zaXRvcnkvUlBBMA8GA1UdEwQIMAYBAf8CAQAwCwYD VR0PBAQDAgEGMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAgUAA4GBAIi4Nzvd2pQ3AK2qn+GBAXEekmptL/bxndPK ZDjcG5gMB4ZbhRVqD7lJhaSV8Rd9Z7R/LSzdmkKewz60jqrlCwbe8lYq+jPHvhnXU0zDvcjj F7WkSUJj7MKmFw9dWBpJPJBcVaNlIAD9GCDlX4KmsaiSxVhqwY0DPOvDzQWikK5uMYICPDCC AjgCAQEwgeEwgcwxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMR8wHQYDVQQLExZWZXJpU2ln biBUcnVzdCBOZXR3b3JrMUYwRAYDVQQLEz13d3cudmVyaXNpZ24uY29tL3JlcG9zaXRvcnkv UlBBIEluY29ycC4gQnkgUmVmLixMSUFCLkxURChjKTk4MUgwRgYDVQQDEz9WZXJpU2lnbiBD bGFzcyAxIENBIEluZGl2aWR1YWwgU3Vic2NyaWJlci1QZXJzb25hIE5vdCBWYWxpZGF0ZWQC EGBXljbFsgcmmQjCGz5R+XAwCQYFKw4DAhoFAKCBsTAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcN AQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw05OTEwMjcxNjE3MTFaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBR2RxUi Fs9VpaofT/0o605eiFgEojBSBgkqhkiG9w0BCQ8xRTBDMAoGCCqGSIb3DQMHMA4GCCqGSIb3 DQMCAgIAgDAHBgUrDgMCBzANBggqhkiG9w0DAgIBQDANBggqhkiG9w0DAgIBKDANBgkqhkiG 9w0BAQEFAASBgGUW43lcyLIP9HSHmexQhjYIud3TbKgok/UYlw0yfKKBjt5bRvFyu6E2jmLE qLS4NyTTRYqKh9giM2I4IxECHP3Ixkqa3b1TKhPtF014TBx+VKZZmTUjvhRNxK36HMEsNAWw HKqJPF2NY2jxi51jDtodmSoYVPFGxR04y7Z5r397 --------------msD31F0B1E36ECE88D04AED7D2-- From sriedel@inside-gmbh.com Thu Oct 28 08:18:23 1999 From: sriedel@inside-gmbh.com (Stephan Riedel) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:18:23 GMT Subject: [XML-SIG] Re: XML-SIG digest, Vol 1 #386 - 2 msgs In-Reply-To: <199910280505.BAA13956@python.org> References: <199910280505.BAA13956@python.org> Message-ID: <19991028.7182334@dns.inside-gmbh.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< On 28.10.99, 07:05:47, xml-sig-admin@python.org wrote regarding XML-SIG digest, Vol 1 #386 - 2 msgs: > Send XML-SIG mailing list submissions to > xml-sig@python.org > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/xml-sig > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > xml-sig-request@python.org > You can reach the person managing the list at > xml-sig-admin@python.org > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of XML-SIG digest..." > Today's Topics: > 1. Re: Scriptics Connect (Fredrik Lundh) > 2. Re: What should we be doing? (Mike Olson) > --__--__-- > Message: 1 > From: "Fredrik Lundh" > To: , "Guido van Rossum" > Subject: Re: [XML-SIG] Scriptics Connect > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:10:54 +0200 > charset="iso-8859-1" > Guido van Rossum wrote: > > Scriptics (John Ousterhout's Tcl/Tk company) has launched an XML > > offensive called Scriptics Connect. > > > > See http://www.scriptics.com/products/connect/ > > > > Has anyone seen this in action? What should be our response? Python > > used to be #1 in the XML scripting world -- lately, I don't see that > > much activity... :-( > from the original press release (when it was called > BizConnect): > A single user development version of BizConnect is > available for $5,000, with a group development version > available for $12,500. Deployment licenses start at > $50,000 for computer systems with up to 4 processors. > guess you could start selling XML-SIG distributions via > the consortium? (buy one, and get a full membership > for free! ;-) > > --__--__-- > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:17:10 -0600 > From: Mike Olson > Organization: FourThought LLC > CC: xml-sig@python.org > Subject: Re: [XML-SIG] What should we be doing? > This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. > --------------msD31F0B1E36ECE88D04AED7D2 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Thanks for all of the feed back on the 4Suite tools. We have been working on > packaging and setup in the last few releases and has improved steadily thanks to > direct feedback from users. If you are still having problems with installation, > you might want to try the latest versions. If you are trying the latest > versions please send us feed back and we will look into any problems. > As for documentation we only document things that are not in the offical specs. > One last note about our CORBA support. Non CORBA installation of 4DOM has been > available for many versions. In an orbless install the CORBA like files are > just dummies and don't degrade performance. We do plan to release a version > without any CORBA infastructure in the core package. > Mike > Greg Duncan wrote: > > Paul, > > > > Further to my earlier comments, I tried the 4Thought package and the same > > comments apply, you just can't take it out of the box and run it, and the > > documentation is not brilliant. > > > > I ended up writing my own module to implement the DOM as it was faster than > > mucking around with someone elses code. In fairness though I did use this > > exercise to bring myself up to speed on python and refresh some XML concepts > > as I have been doing 'other stuff' for the past 12 months. > > > > I certanly beileve enough in python / XML that I would be prepared to spend > > some of my personal time organising resources and testing updating > > documentation for the python XML community - an advantage as being > > relatively new to python, I don't make the same assumptions that you do. > > > > If this interests anyone then let me know! > > > > _____________________________________________ > > Greg Duncan > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Prescod > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 1:56 PM > > Subject: [XML-SIG] What should we be doing? > > > > > Guido van Rossum wrote: > > > > Has anyone seen this in action? What should be our response? Python > > > > used to be #1 in the XML scripting world -- lately, I don't see that > > > > much activity... :-( > > > > > > My only major concern with the distribution is that it is too hard to > > > use. There are little bits spread all over the Internet, they compete > > > with each other in confusing ways. They aren't that easy to install. The > > > SIG distribution is too large. We need Python 1.6 or 1.53 to have > > > "Python batteries included". > > > > > > I would suggest we should evaluate the 4thought stuff (minus CORBA > > > (sorry!)) from that point of view. As an integrated package it is > > > incredibly powerful and competitive with anything they have in the Java > > > world. And we should finish and standardize EasySAX -- perhaps with an > > > eye to stealing some ideas from SAXON. > > > > > > Paul Prescod > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > XML-SIG maillist - XML-SIG@python.org > > > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/xml-sig > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > XML-SIG maillist - XML-SIG@python.org > > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/xml-sig > -- > ---------------- > Mike Olson > Consulting Member > FourThought LLC > http://www.fourthought.com http://opentechnology.org > --------------msD31F0B1E36ECE88D04AED7D2 > Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 > Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" > Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature > MIIKpgYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIKlzCCCpMCAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCC > CDIwggT8MIIEZaADAgECAhBgV5Y2xbIHJpkIwhs+UflwMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAMIHMMRcw > 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<19991029080300.7522.qmail@nwcst288.netaddress.usa.net> Hello..:) I just wondered if the Python/XML Reference Guide is available in a downloadable/printable format, and also maybe the Python/XML HOWTO? Thanx a lot :) Ulf (Alexis) alexisjuh@usa.net ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From Vladimir.Marangozov@inrialpes.fr Fri Oct 29 11:45:32 1999 From: Vladimir.Marangozov@inrialpes.fr (Vladimir Marangozov) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:45:32 +0100 (NFT) Subject: [XML-SIG] Hello Message-ID: <199910291045.LAA31274@pukapuka.inrialpes.fr> Hi all, I'm relatively new to the XML world (which is not the case for Python) as well as the W3C standardization efforts in this area, but as a benevolent INRIA webmaster I have to jump in, so I joined this sig. (finally! :-) and I plan to stay for a while... ;-) I have some comments and a couple of questions that I hope you'll be able to answer. I realize that the information exists somewhere, or I can analyse the code to see what's done or doable and what's not, but I'd better refer to you as more experienced in this area and save some precious time. I'm building a medium-sized website (approx. 150 pages) and I already have some content and a relatively complex layout, all written in valid HTML 4 almost by hand . Continuing this way, as you know, is a dead end. I have been told (and more precisely, the W3C people working here) that I have to put my content in XML, then use XSLT to transform my content and generate the HTML layout. This way, if I want to make radical changes to the layout or the output documents, the only thing I'll have to modify is the transormation rules. I guess that this is not the only solution for my task, but I'd better follow their advice in the long run. So, as a Python addict, I made a quick tour on the Web to see what Python tools exist for the job. The good news is that the XML-SIG has already packaged the low-level machinery of XML -- a very nice piece of work! Another good news is that the FourThought guys have released recently parts of their 4Suite, including the XSLT and XPath packages. I haven't tried them yet, so I'm not in a position to comment whether the implemented subset of the W3C recommendation (PR-xslt-19991008) will suffice for my task. (I can only regret that James Clark's XT was written in Java, and not in Python. I'll tell Vincent Quint to convert him ;-) A third good thing is Zope. I won't comment too much on it because you already know better than me what Zope is and does. What bothers me a little bit in Zope is that I'm not convinced that I can clearly separate content from style. Zope relies on templates, not on transformation rules. So, I wonder whether I really have today the Python basic bricks to perform the following: 0) Define my DTD and deduce the user-friendly forms for 1). 1) Fill my content via user-friendly forms (a la Zope) 2) This content is wrapped and stored in XML. 3) The XML files are processed according to my stylesheets and the XSLT processor. 4) The formatted result (currently in valid HTML 4.0) shines on my screen (when I click on Zope's preview, for example) Basically, I'd like to "plug" the XML/XSLT part in the Zope site-building process. Fundamentally, Zope's DTML resembles XSLT, but as an INRIA employee, I tend to prefer XSLT and the standards my colleages are working on ;-). In the end, is this doable? Are there any missing parts or tools in this chain? I wish that the people at DC consider a strategical move for Zope, so that this excellent product incorporates (or is interfaced with) the W3C standards. Damn, even the examples in Zope are not in valid HTML! DTML is good (it was developped before the current standards), but a shift or a bidirectional converter DTML<->XSL/T would be a major win. Whether this is doable is another story. I don't know too much of the details yet, but I plan to get at full speed shortly :-) -- Vladimir MARANGOZOV | Vladimir.Marangozov@inrialpes.fr http://sirac.inrialpes.fr/~marangoz | tel:(+33-4)76615277 fax:76615252 From Vladimir.Marangozov@inrialpes.fr Fri Oct 29 14:03:16 1999 From: Vladimir.Marangozov@inrialpes.fr (Vladimir Marangozov) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:03:16 +0100 (NFT) Subject: [XML-SIG] xml package install Message-ID: <199910291303.OAA20200@pukapuka.inrialpes.fr> The xml-0.5.1 package installation is so smooth, that it would probably make sense to strip the "make -f Makefile.pre.in boot" step. This way, the install would become the canonical "make; make install". (if something fails, the instructions in README still apply) The simplest way to achieve this is to ship the package with an initial Makefile (which will be overwritten), containing the rule "all: make -f Makefile.pre.in boot; make" Comments? (BTW, the same applies to FourThought's packages) -- Vladimir MARANGOZOV | Vladimir.Marangozov@inrialpes.fr http://sirac.inrialpes.fr/~marangoz | tel:(+33-4)76615277 fax:76615252 From Vladimir.Marangozov@inrialpes.fr Fri Oct 29 15:41:53 1999 From: Vladimir.Marangozov@inrialpes.fr (Vladimir Marangozov) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:41:53 +0100 (NFT) Subject: [XML-SIG] Scriptics Connect Message-ID: <199910291441.PAA19508@pukapuka.inrialpes.fr> Guido van Rossum wrote: > Scriptics (John Ousterhout's Tcl/Tk company) has launched an XML > offensive called Scriptics Connect. > > See http://www.scriptics.com/products/connect/ > > Has anyone seen this in action? What should be our response? Python > used to be #1 in the XML scripting world -- lately, I don't see that > much activity... :-( Seen my "Hello" message? It was written from an end-user point of view, and formulates a wish, which involves bits of code from: 1) The XML-SIG (for basic XML processing support) 2) FourThought (the first who propose a Python implementation of the ongoing standardization on XML styles and style transformations) 3) Zope (hiding the complexity of all this [and more] behind a user-friendly Web interface) That would be a real response! (and obviously, I'm not limiting myself to the mission of the XML-SIG) Currently, I'm investigating how I can put these pieces together, eventually help the 4T unfinished XSLT development and end up with a tool which covers the whole Web documents development process, according to the standards. Unfortunately, Zope is unacceptable for me in it's current state and is not up to date with the standards. The Python XML code is, or will be shortly. Having these pieces together would be a must. A complete (100% Python-based) open-source solution is a dream for every Web developer (and a lot of people will become Web content publishers in the future, even my grand-ma ;-) if we give them the tools and explain them how to do it the right way. I don't know yet what kind of effort it will cost me/us to achieve what I described, but I thought that emphasizing my (still external) point of view (without looking into the details) doesn't hurt :-) -- Vladimir MARANGOZOV | Vladimir.Marangozov@inrialpes.fr http://sirac.inrialpes.fr/~marangoz | tel:(+33-4)76615277 fax:76615252 From Alain.Michard@inria.fr Fri Oct 29 14:57:19 1999 From: Alain.Michard@inria.fr (Alain Michard) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:57:19 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] Scriptics Connect In-Reply-To: <199910251417.KAA02948@eric.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991029155719.009758a0@pop-rocq.inria.fr> My guess is that the answer should be "make script interpretation available on the client side". For many applications we need "document processing" on the client, through scripts accessing to the DOM. What about embedding Python into Gecko ? Apart from that, I agree that somekind of clean XML-enabled version of Zope would be great. Alain Michard (Inria) At 10:17 25/10/99 -0400, Guido van Rossum wrote: >Scriptics (John Ousterhout's Tcl/Tk company) has launched an XML >offensive called Scriptics Connect. > >See http://www.scriptics.com/products/connect/ > >Has anyone seen this in action? What should be our response? Python >used to be #1 in the XML scripting world -- lately, I don't see that >much activity... :-( > >--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) > >_______________________________________________ >XML-SIG maillist - XML-SIG@python.org >http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/xml-sig > > From fdrake@acm.org Fri Oct 29 15:55:07 1999 From: fdrake@acm.org (Fred L. Drake, Jr.) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:55:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [XML-SIG] xml package install In-Reply-To: <199910291303.OAA20200@pukapuka.inrialpes.fr> References: <199910291303.OAA20200@pukapuka.inrialpes.fr> Message-ID: <14361.46411.10988.530911@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> Vladimir Marangozov writes: > The simplest way to achieve this is to ship the package with an initial > Makefile (which will be overwritten), containing the rule > "all: make -f Makefile.pre.in boot; make" I like this. I've been known to do even more devious things, when I wanted to add additional material to the Makefile. It's actually possible to write a Makefile that locates the Makefile.pre.in that is installed when Python is installed and use that, adding additional material using Setup.in and rules in the bootstrap Makefile. And then have a target that cleans it all back up so that the Makefile that's there in the end is the one that you included in the first place. Guido didn't like that, but for t1python, I didn't care. ;-) -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. Corporation for National Research Initiatives From petrilli@amber.org Sat Oct 30 21:58:45 1999 From: petrilli@amber.org (Christopher Petrilli) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:58:45 -0400 Subject: [XML-SIG] Hello In-Reply-To: <199910291045.LAA31274@pukapuka.inrialpes.fr>; from Vladimir.Marangozov@inrialpes.fr on Fri, Oct 29, 1999 at 11:45:32AM +0100 References: <199910291045.LAA31274@pukapuka.inrialpes.fr> Message-ID: <19991030165845.B15238@trump.amber.org> Vladimir Marangozov [Vladimir.Marangozov@inrialpes.fr] wrote: > > I wish that the people at DC consider a strategical move for Zope, > so that this excellent product incorporates (or is interfaced with) > the W3C standards. Damn, even the examples in Zope are not in valid HTML! > DTML is good (it was developped before the current standards), but a shift > or a bidirectional converter DTML<->XSL/T would be a major win. Whether > this is doable is another story. I don't know too much of the details yet, > but I plan to get at full speed shortly :-) > Without wishing to start a "flame war", I would argue that storing your data in XML has little if any value... being able to represent it in XML which needed is much more important. XML is from my perspective a data interchange format, one which easily surpases nearly all others. It's not a database format, however. Maybe I've just been scared off by all the hype. Anyway, as for Zope (since I'm one of the product manager), DTML was never inteded to be XML + XSL/T, for a couple reasons: o DTML predates XML by year and years o XSL/T is a moving target o XSL is way too burdensome for most users As for the last, I put forward that if it takes myself or someone else I work with HOURS to figure out how to do something that we do in DTML trivially, then it's not as simple as it should be. DTML provides things like tree representation with automatic handling of expansion/closing, as well as batch management. It is a REPORTING language, not a transform language, there is a fundemental difference in the targets. I personally don't believe there are applicable standards for anything we're doing, and we follow where we can. The new syntax of DTML is closer to being sane, but the full weight of moving to something like a pure XML syntax or XHTML is too much for our users---with little gain at this point. Potentially in the future. DTML isn't an interchange format any more than Crystal Reports or PL/SQL is an INTERCHANGE format. This is importan to understand when analyzing the problem domain. Having said that, we're commited to using XML where it's appropriate, and have some cool stuff that works with DOMs right now. It will be driven by customer needs, however, rather than blind adhearance to standards. Chris -- | Christopher Petrilli | petrilli@amber.org From Vladimir.Marangozov@inrialpes.fr Sun Oct 31 03:51:59 1999 From: Vladimir.Marangozov@inrialpes.fr (Vladimir Marangozov) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 04:51:59 +0100 (NFT) Subject: [XML-SIG] Hello In-Reply-To: <19991030165845.B15238@trump.amber.org> from "Christopher Petrilli" at "Oct 30, 99 04:58:45 pm" Message-ID: <199910310351.EAA53844@pukapuka.inrialpes.fr> Christopher Petrilli wrote: > > Vladimir Marangozov [Vladimir.Marangozov@inrialpes.fr] wrote: > > > > I wish that the people at DC consider a strategical move for Zope, > > so that this excellent product incorporates (or is interfaced with) > > the W3C standards. Damn, even the examples in Zope are not in valid HTML! > > DTML is good (it was developped before the current standards), but a shift > > or a bidirectional converter DTML<->XSL/T would be a major win. Whether > > this is doable is another story. I don't know too much of the details yet, > > but I plan to get at full speed shortly :-) > > > Without wishing to start a "flame war", I would argue that storing your > data in XML has little if any value... being able to represent it in XML > which needed is much more important. XML is from my perspective a data > interchange format, one which easily surpases nearly all others. It's not > a database format, however. Maybe I've just been scared off by all the > hype. My opinion differs quite a bit: XML is about giving _semantics_ to the content, and it has little to do with syntax or format. Of course, this semantics has to be expressed in some way, so both structure, syntax and format are involved. Want to know what the people doing fundamental research on the Web here are preparing for us in the forthcoming years? It's called "Semantics Web". :-) > > Anyway, as for Zope (since I'm one of the product manager), DTML was > never inteded to be XML + XSL/T, for a couple reasons: > > o DTML predates XML by year and years > o XSL/T is a moving target > o XSL is way too burdensome for most users > > As for the last, I put forward that if it takes myself or someone else > I work with HOURS to figure out how to do something that we do in DTML > trivially, then it's not as simple as it should be. DTML provides things > like tree representation with automatic handling of expansion/closing, > as well as batch management. It is a REPORTING language, not a transform > language, there is a fundemental difference in the targets. I agree with your agruments, but personally, I'm more concerned about adopting the "right way", which is not measured in terms of complexity. I can do very nice things with DTML easily -- that's true, but... If I adopt DTML per se, I foresee potential problems with the presentation of my content in the future, because the content is not really decoupled from the presentation style at design time. (You can find some more friendly arguments of mine in a message posted to the zope-dev mailing list). In case I want to move in the future my contextual navigation menu from left to the right, what do I do? Change 50 templates by hand? Define DTML methods that manage to reshape all my HTML layout dynamically on page demand? This is not really what I want. I believe that the XML/XSL-T combination will pay off in the long run, especially when the same content has (will have) to be delivered according to the presentation abilities of the client's device (traditional Web browser, mobile, a Web browsing device for people with disabilities, etc.). That's why I'm really willing to use Zope, but in combination with XSL-T. (And no, I'm not religious about the standards, but I know quite well what the W3C people are doing, what they are not doing, and why). > > I personally don't believe there are applicable standards for anything > we're doing, Wow. I personally can't believe that you believe this :-) Take any HTML page delivered by Zope, and http://validator.w3.org will tell you which standard applies. It will even tell you why ;-) > and we follow where we can. The new syntax of DTML is closer > to being sane, but the full weight of moving to something like a pure > XML syntax or XHTML is too much for our users---with little gain at > this point. Potentially in the future. DTML isn't an interchange format > any more than Crystal Reports or PL/SQL is an INTERCHANGE format. This > is importan to understand when analyzing the problem domain. > > Having said that, we're commited to using XML where it's appropriate, > and have some cool stuff that works with DOMs right now. Great! > It will be driven by customer needs, however, rather than blind adhearance > to standards. If I didn't like Zope, I wouldn't have taken the time to discuss, suggest and contribute things related to its perennity! OTOH, what about seeing my posts as a potential customer need? Bummer. I'm already way too much off-topic for this forum. -- Vladimir MARANGOZOV | Vladimir.Marangozov@inrialpes.fr http://sirac.inrialpes.fr/~marangoz | tel:(+33-4)76615277 fax:76615252 From xml-sig@teleo.net Sun Oct 31 05:04:45 1999 From: xml-sig@teleo.net (Patrick Phalen) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 22:04:45 -0700 Subject: [XML-SIG] Hello In-Reply-To: <199910310351.EAA53844@pukapuka.inrialpes.fr> References: <199910310351.EAA53844@pukapuka.inrialpes.fr> Message-ID: <99103022014101.01895@quadra.teleo.net> [Vladimir Marangozov, on Sat, 30 Oct 1999]: :: Bummer. I'm already way too much off-topic for this forum. Hmmm. Is a discussion of Python, XML, and an application server platform which is *built* out of Python off-topic for this forum? Not in my view and I would hope that others here find this a worthwhile line of inquiry. Three years from now, will you be surprised if the payload of 50% of the packets shipped on the Internet (and across narrowband wireless, for that matter) is XML? I won't, especially counting automated machine to machine communications, behind the scenes, for ecommerce, financial transactions, news and who knows what else. Nor will I be surprised to see Python and Zope playing key roles in this new Web of logic. There are ways in which Python, Zope and developments in XML have converged on very similar solutions already (e.g., look at the WebBroker specs for namespaces). I can understand and sympathize with Chris's view. Digital Creations already has its hands full inventing a new business model on a day by day basis; they need to focus on their current strategy. Nevertheless, Zope has "good bones" and perhaps the best shot at being first to the party with a coherent top to bottom XML model. I admit I too was a bit suspicious of hype when I first heard people begin to discuss means of storing data in XML. Nevertheless, I find it intriguing that the discussion list at http://www.egroups.com/group/xml-server/info.html was started only one week ago, but already has 120 posts and is converging on a plan. But anyway, that's why Zope, Python and XML are open Vladimir! So that an aficianado like you, with your own view of things, can lift the hood and start tinkering. :)