From mnot@pobox.com Thu Jul 1 13:13:03 1999 From: mnot@pobox.com (Mark Nottingham) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 22:13:03 +1000 Subject: [XML-SIG] Content Syndication Message-ID: <020a01bec3bb$11b7a020$0301a8c0@mnot.net> I'm just joining the list, but I've been thinking about content syndication for a while, and it was suggested that this was a good place to talk about this. > This boils down to internal politics. If you click on the "Future Directions" > link in the quickstart (http://my.netscape.com/publish/help/futures.html), I have > an example of the original RSS format I came up with, which does make meaningful > use of RDF (channels have IDs, all nodes connect, dublin core is used, etc.) > However, apparently this "overly complicated". There are other technical reasons > I can't really go into. Anyway, for now, RSS is basically an XML format, and it > may eventually have an RDF superset. I sympathise; the DC et al is a Good Thing. However, from the other side, one of the reasons RSS has caught on so well is that it is very simple. RDF is not, and it is also not yet ready for prime time, IMHO (but I don't know as much about it as I want to). I don't know that dublin core really addresses the problems in content syndication, as they exist now; most people seem to want to 1) syndicate a original-content web site's news, and 2) syndicate WebLogs. just to get this off my chest- ... ... with optional ... throughout is my idea of the core of the item declaration. is optional, and just denotes emphasis. Other item elements/attributes (as they may fall): * publication date - to allow sorting, cutoff, etc * expiration date - so that content providers can limit how long an item shows for * content source (with url) * content categorisation (with url to describe category or categorisation system?) - provider-defined categories Finally, and probably most important, one of the big problems right now is that every standard (RSS, ScriptingNews, MoreOverNews, etc) is owned by somebody. While external poeple may be consulted, decisions are still made behind closed doors. As a result, not everyone will be willing to use the final result, no matter how well-designed. I think it would be a good idea to set up a syndication mailing list (on findmail or whatever), so that everyone can meet on neutral ground, and set some goals, work out the issues and define deliverables in public. Anybody else thing this is a good idea? Mark Nottingham, Melbourne Australia mnot@pobox.com http://www.mnot.net/ From danda@netscape.com Fri Jul 2 04:27:06 1999 From: danda@netscape.com (Dan Libby) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 20:27:06 -0700 Subject: [XML-SIG] Content Syndication References: <020a01bec3bb$11b7a020$0301a8c0@mnot.net> Message-ID: <377C318A.B0A05EA1@netscape.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------BF52C6C97D9EE2FFDC3C8A4B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > just to get this off my chest- > <item> > <title>... > ... > > with optional ... throughout is my idea of the core > of the item declaration. > is optional, and just denotes emphasis. So I'm not understanding something here. Is there supposed to be other text besides the link? Otherwise, you just end up with a bunch of links and no plain text. Or are you saying that link should be allowed as sub-elements of title and description? It seems like this may be harder to parse, and it potentially makes it less useful as metadata. This brings up the issue of what the purpose of the format is. RSS was originally intended to be a metadata format. ie: Information about other sites. ScriptingNews (and the above description) tend to indicate a desire for more of a publishing/syndication approach, where the format *is* the content, not just a description of it. It's a fine line, and I'm not sure what the right answer is. > * publication date - to allow sorting, cutoff, etc yes. > * expiration date - so that content providers can limit how long an item > shows for per channel, or per item? > * content categorisation (with url to describe category or categorisation > system?) - provider-defined categories > yes. Also for categorisation: language country location code (postal? regional?) > Finally, and probably most important, one of the big problems right now is > that every standard (RSS, ScriptingNews, MoreOverNews, etc) is owned by > somebody. While external poeple may be consulted, decisions are still made > behind closed doors. As a result, not everyone will be willing to use the > final result, no matter how well-designed. > true. > I think it would be a good idea to set up a syndication mailing list (on > findmail or whatever), so that everyone can meet on neutral ground, and set > some goals, work out the issues and define deliverables in public. Anybody > else thing this is a good idea? I think it is a fine idea. -dan --------------BF52C6C97D9EE2FFDC3C8A4B Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="danda.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Dan Libby Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="danda.vcf" begin:vcard n:Libby;Dan x-mozilla-html:TRUE org:Netscape Communications adr:;;;Mountain View;CA;94043;USA version:2.1 email;internet:danda@netscape.com x-mozilla-cpt:;0 tel;home:650-964-5913 tel;work:650-937-2276 fn:Dan Libby end:vcard --------------BF52C6C97D9EE2FFDC3C8A4B-- From mnot@pobox.com Fri Jul 2 05:08:35 1999 From: mnot@pobox.com (Mark Nottingham) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:08:35 +1000 Subject: [XML-SIG] Content Syndication References: <020a01bec3bb$11b7a020$0301a8c0@mnot.net> <377C318A.B0A05EA1@netscape.com> Message-ID: <027301bec440$8ec6d920$0301a8c0@mnot.net> > So I'm not understanding something here. Is there supposed to be other text > besides the link? Otherwise, you just end up with a bunch of links and no plain > text. Or are you saying that link should be allowed as sub-elements of title > and description? It seems like this may be harder to parse, and it potentially > makes it less useful as metadata. #2ish - inline elements. For instance, <item> <title><link url="http://foo.com/frobnob.html">New widget frobnob released</link> The Foo corporation released their new Frobnob widget set today at a press conference in Wagga Wagga. However, I'm not particularly tied to this. Inline tags seemed natural and more specific if you want the possibility of multiple and content-sensitive links in each item. ScriptingNews does the whole .. .... thing, but this seems a horrible hack to me. What if the linetext shows up more than once in the text? Is it really that hard to parse inline tags? probably isn't appropriate... perhaps ... One other thing. How do people feel about disallowing embedded HTML in the items? > This brings up the issue of what the purpose of the format is. RSS was > originally intended to be a metadata format. ie: Information about other > sites. ScriptingNews (and the above description) tend to indicate a desire for > more of a publishing/syndication approach, where the format *is* the content, > not just a description of it. It's a fine line, and I'm not sure what the right > answer is. This is probably the first (and most important) thing to decide. SN itself uses the format to publish its entire content, but it's child channels don't; I think that's the problem. > > * expiration date - so that content providers can limit how long an item > > shows for > > per channel, or per item? I'm thinking both pub and expiration date are per item. > > I think it would be a good idea to set up a syndication mailing list (on > > findmail or whatever), so that everyone can meet on neutral ground, and set > > some goals, work out the issues and define deliverables in public. Anybody > > else thing this is a good idea? > > I think it is a fine idea. Cool. Will announce under separate cover. From danda@netscape.com Fri Jul 2 06:07:56 1999 From: danda@netscape.com (Dan Libby) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 22:07:56 -0700 Subject: [XML-SIG] Content Syndication References: <020a01bec3bb$11b7a020$0301a8c0@mnot.net> <377C318A.B0A05EA1@netscape.com> <027301bec440$8ec6d920$0301a8c0@mnot.net> Message-ID: <377C492C.45E8C3E1@netscape.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------FE2EB5A6AEB2FA2FBFED03C7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark Nottingham wrote: > One other thing. How do people feel about disallowing embedded HTML in the > items? HTML is a display-oriented format. It usually is not even well-formed in the xml sense. Further, it has great potential to break the layout of your page, for example, if the publisher embeds a tag. It is possible to watch for this, and avoid it, but its not exactly 'simple'. The real problem is that it gives the publisher control over the display of the content. In a syndicated system, I think what you really want is to be able to publish *data*, and let the receiver format it however they choose, so long as they can understand it. Eg: If I'm the receiver and I think Titles should be bolded, I can insert it into an html template that wraps around all titles. Or I can put it in a
and let a style sheet handle it. Or if I have an XML capable browser, I can simply create a style sheet that understands the title tag. On second thought, one thing that might be a cool compromise is if we had an optional tag indicating which style-sheet(s) the publisher thinks should be used. If you have a real need to transfer HTML documents, then what you need is something like ICE that takes care of the packaging and tagging of documents. Otherwise, what we provide as a subset will never be fully html compliant -- eg some tags won't work, and will also be problematic from a validation point of view, since HTML is generally not "valid" in the xml sense. > > This brings up the issue of what the purpose of the format is. RSS was > > originally intended to be a metadata format. ie: Information about other > > sites. ScriptingNews (and the above description) tend to indicate a > desire for > > more of a publishing/syndication approach, where the format *is* the > content, > > not just a description of it. It's a fine line, and I'm not sure what the > right > > answer is. > > This is probably the first (and most important) thing to decide. SN itself > uses the format to publish its entire content, but it's child channels > don't; I think that's the problem. > I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this topic. I'm going to be gone till Tues though, so if I'm quiet, that's why. My own feeling, having worked a little with RDF and metadata previously, is that the goal should be to transfer data about resources. We should not try to dictate how that data will be presented, if at all, which is what happens when embedded HTML is allowed. Reader's comments and related links could certainly be construed as "metadata" about a given resource, so it would be nice to be able to transmit these as well. -dan --------------FE2EB5A6AEB2FA2FBFED03C7 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="danda.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Dan Libby Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="danda.vcf" begin:vcard n:Libby;Dan x-mozilla-html:TRUE org:Netscape Communications adr:;;;Mountain View;CA;94043;USA version:2.1 email;internet:danda@netscape.com x-mozilla-cpt:;0 tel;home:650-964-5913 tel;work:650-937-2276 fn:Dan Libby end:vcard --------------FE2EB5A6AEB2FA2FBFED03C7-- From mnot@pobox.com Fri Jul 2 06:59:18 1999 From: mnot@pobox.com (Mark Nottingham) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 15:59:18 +1000 Subject: [XML-SIG] Content Syndication mailing list Message-ID: <19990702155918.A22989@i.mnot.net> An open mailing list has been created to discuss XML content syndication formats. Hopefully, it will be used to bring together the disparate efforts currently under way and define a common format. At the very least, we can start to get the discussions out in the open. To subscribe, send e-mail to: syndication-subscribe@onelist.com ( I tried to use egroups, but they appear to be having mail problems -- a bad sign? onelist looks reasonable. ) -- Mark Nottingham, Melbourne Australia mnot@pobox.com http://www.mnot.net/ From gstein@lyra.org Fri Jul 2 07:28:48 1999 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 23:28:48 -0700 Subject: [XML-SIG] Content Syndication mailing list References: <19990702155918.A22989@i.mnot.net> Message-ID: <377C5C20.4E17CAC4@lyra.org> Mark Nottingham wrote: > > An open mailing list has been created to discuss XML content syndication > formats. Hopefully, it will be used to bring together the disparate efforts > currently under way and define a common format. At the very least, we can > start to get the discussions out in the open. Have you looked at the ICE stuff? That spec is intended to do content syndication. Cheers, -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ From mnot@pobox.com Fri Jul 2 08:01:00 1999 From: mnot@pobox.com (Mark Nottingham) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 17:01:00 +1000 Subject: [XML-SIG] Content Syndication mailing list In-Reply-To: <377C5C20.4E17CAC4@lyra.org>; from Greg Stein on Thu, Jul 01, 1999 at 11:28:48PM -0700 References: <19990702155918.A22989@i.mnot.net> <377C5C20.4E17CAC4@lyra.org> Message-ID: <19990702170100.A18797@i.mnot.net> Sorry, I should have been more specific. I'm talking about something in the vein of RSS, Scriptingnews, MoreOerNews, etc. Perhaps syndication isn't the best term? ICE is interesting, but IMHO way too heavy for this; it requires HTTP POST, etc. Getting people to implement such a complex protocol (it is request/response) will not be easy. Scoping it will be one of the first tasks for the list. At the most basic level, it's allowing Web sites and WebLogs share lists of news and links to resources. On Thu, Jul 01, 1999 at 11:28:48PM -0700, Greg Stein wrote: > Mark Nottingham wrote: > > > > An open mailing list has been created to discuss XML content syndication > > formats. Hopefully, it will be used to bring together the disparate efforts > > currently under way and define a common format. At the very least, we can > > start to get the discussions out in the open. > > Have you looked at the ICE stuff? That spec is intended to do content > syndication. > > Cheers, > -g > > -- > Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ -- Mark Nottingham, Melbourne Australia mnot@pobox.com http://www.mnot.net/ From danda@netscape.com Fri Jul 2 09:02:20 1999 From: danda@netscape.com (Dan Libby) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 01:02:20 -0700 Subject: [XML-SIG] XML Schema's Article References: <19990702155918.A22989@i.mnot.net> Message-ID: <377C720C.4C98853E@netscape.com> There's a good article on XML schemas at http://xml.com/xml/pub?wwwrrr_rss. Hey, anyone here working on code to read these things yet? XML.com is available as an MNN channel at http://my.netscape.com/addchannel.tmpl?service=net.673 -dan From mnot@pobox.com Fri Jul 2 10:08:40 1999 From: mnot@pobox.com (Mark Nottingham) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:08:40 +1000 Subject: [XML-SIG] Content Syndication References: <020a01bec3bb$11b7a020$0301a8c0@mnot.net> <377C318A.B0A05EA1@netscape.com> <027301bec440$8ec6d920$0301a8c0@mnot.net> <377C492C.45E8C3E1@netscape.com> Message-ID: <02e301bec46a$7a46f280$0301a8c0@mnot.net> > HTML is a display-oriented format. It usually is not even well-formed in the > xml sense. Further, it has great potential to break the layout of your page, > for example, if the publisher embeds a tag. It is possible to watch > for this, and avoid it, but its not exactly 'simple'. The real problem is that > it gives the publisher control over the display of the content. In a syndicated > system, I think what you really want is to be able to publish *data*, and let > the receiver format it however they choose, so long as they can understand it. I"m with you and in complete agreement. It doesn't make sense at all to have HTML in. However, some people already do it; for instance, passing ,

and
to format their text. Some people will want to put formatting into the channels, but IMHO that level of detail belongs in the original, cited content, not a short 'teaser' to the link. This sort of stuff should be spelled out clearly to potential content providers, and enforced by aggregation/presentation engines. > On second thought, one thing that might be a cool compromise is if we had an > optional tag indicating which style-sheet(s) the publisher thinks should be > used. Don't know how that would be incorporated, but it's interesting to think about. > If you have a real need to transfer HTML documents, then what you need is > something like ICE that takes care of the packaging and tagging of documents. > Otherwise, what we provide as a subset will never be fully html compliant -- eg > some tags won't work, and will also be problematic from a validation point of > view, since HTML is generally not "valid" in the xml sense. Assuming you're not just reponding to my question rhetorically, when do you think such a capability would be necessary/desireable? > I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this topic. I'm going to be gone till > Tues though, so if I'm quiet, that's why. My own feeling, having worked a > little with RDF and metadata previously, is that the goal should be to transfer > data about resources. We should not try to dictate how that data will be > presented, if at all, which is what happens when embedded HTML is allowed. > Reader's comments and related links could certainly be construed as "metadata" > about a given resource, so it would be nice to be able to transmit these as > well. Hmm. A commenting/annotation capability is intriguing. My initial thought is that perhaps there is a need for a separate annotation format, that can optionally be used in conjunction with this; my concept is that this is primarily resource discovery; annotation is another domain which may interoperate with it, but the overlap is minimal. Have you seen http://www.thirdvoice.com/ ? From larsga@ifi.uio.no Fri Jul 2 11:59:58 1999 From: larsga@ifi.uio.no (Lars Marius Garshol) Date: 02 Jul 1999 12:59:58 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] XML Schema's Article In-Reply-To: <377C720C.4C98853E@netscape.com> References: <19990702155918.A22989@i.mnot.net> <377C720C.4C98853E@netscape.com> Message-ID: * Dan Libby | | There's a good article on XML schemas at http://xml.com/xml/pub?wwwrrr_rss. | Hey, anyone here working on code to read these things yet? I have some basic code to handle data types and have been thinking about structural schemas. However, this is all waiting for me to finish my thesis and update my other Python projects first. --Lars M. From n9mtb@concentric.net Fri Jul 2 22:51:24 1999 From: n9mtb@concentric.net (Rob Tillotson) Date: 02 Jul 1999 16:51:24 -0500 Subject: [XML-SIG] Debian packages Message-ID: <87oghuk9er.fsf@debian.org> With the rather public discussion going on in gnu.misc.discuss about Debian's development model, I thought I might as well introduce myself and ask for feedback. I am maintaining a Debian package of the Python XML tools developed by the members of this SIG. The package is version 0.5.1-2 (the -2 is the Debian-specific part of the version number), based on the 0.5.1 version available on www.python.org. I have made four packaging changes, which should only be relevant to Debian systems: - it is compiled against the separately-installable libxmltok1, rather than the one that is included. (Package dependencies are used to make sure it's installed on the user's machine.) - rather than compiling .pyc files at build time, only the .py files are shipped, and they are compiled by the local Python when the package is intalled. - during a discussion about bookmark exchange on debian-devel, a couple of people brought up XBEL as a workable solution. To make it more accessible, I made it available in separate packages (built from the python-xml source) "xbel" and "xbel-utils", and put the DTD in the right place for SGML utilities to find it. It was my hope that this might lead to wider use of xbel in Debian (we have at least one package which is basically just a Netscape bookmark file, we already have a package of Grail, etc.)... it hasn't happened yet, unfortunately, but I still think XBEL is a good idea ;-) - Debian's package manager allows partial replacements of existing packages, so the sgmllib.py and xmllib.py in python-xml actually replace the ones that come with Python. (As long as python-xml is installed, of course; deinstall it, and the old ones come back.) It is the last change which has the most potential to be controversial, and I think I am about to back it out. Recently, after installing Python 1.5.2, I found that there have been changes to the Python-standard sgmllib and xmllib, so that the replacements are no longer necessarily strict *replacements*, so I should probably stop doing this now... or perhaps I should make it an option that the system administrator can toggle. Opinions, anyone? (I should point out that no Debian users have said anything either way, so either they haven't noticed, don't care, or aren't using the package ;-) Anyway, I welcome feedback about my handling of the XML tools package. I don't want to piss anyone off; I want Debian to have a powerful set of SGML/XML tools available, and packaging python-xml is my contribution to that. I wish I could contribute more to the actual development, but alas I am not quite that expert in XML yet (I'm quite interested in using the tools, however, which is why I joined the SIG to follow them). Thanks, --Rob -- Rob Tillotson N9MTB From john@totten.com Tue Jul 6 15:57:38 1999 From: john@totten.com (John Totten) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 06:57:38 -0800 Subject: [XML-SIG] PyDOM and wxTreeView Message-ID: <37821962.66A9D191@totten.com> Has anyone written a Python TreeView on top of PyDOM? Maybe wxTreeView? John Totten From sean@digitome.com Tue Jul 6 16:41:36 1999 From: sean@digitome.com (Sean McGrath) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 16:41:36 +0100 Subject: [XML-SIG] PyDOM and wxTreeView In-Reply-To: <37821962.66A9D191@totten.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990706164136.00984b60@gpo.iol.ie> At 06:57 06/07/99 -0800, you wrote: > > Has anyone written a Python TreeView on top of >PyDOM? > Maybe wxTreeView? > Not DOM but here is a basic one for wxWindows that uses pyExpat. Sean -------------- """ Build a GUI Tree (wxWindows) from an XML file using pyExpat """ import sys,string from xml.parsers import pyexpat from wxPython.wx import * class MyFrame(wxFrame): def __init__(self, parent, id, title): wxFrame.__init__(self, parent, id, title, wxPoint(100, 100), wxSize(160, 100)) menu = wxMenu() menu.Append (1001,"Open") menu.Append (1002,"Close") menu.Append (1003,"Exit") menubar = wxMenuBar() menubar.Append (menu,"File") self.SetMenuBar(menubar) class MyApp(wxApp): def OnInit(self): self.frame = MyFrame(NULL, -1, "Tree View of XML") self.tree = wx.wxTreeCtrl (self.frame, -1) EVT_MENU(self, 1001, self.OnOpen) EVT_MENU(self, 1002, self.OnClose) EVT_MENU(self, 1003, self.OnExit) self.frame.Show(true) self.SetTopWindow(self.frame) return true def OnOpen(self,event): f = wxFileDialog(self.frame,"Select a file",".","","*.xml",wxOPEN) if f.ShowModal() == wxID_OK: LoadTree (f.GetPath()) def OnClose(self,event): self.tree = wx.wxTreeCtrl (self.frame, -1) pass def OnExit(self,event): self.OnCloseWindow(event) def OnCloseWindow(self, event): self.frame.Destroy() NodeStack = [] # Define a handler for start element events def StartElement( name, attrs ): global NodeStack NodeStack.append (app.tree.AppendItem (NodeStack[-1],name)) def EndElement( name ): global NodeStack NodeStack = NodeStack[:-1] def CharacterData ( data ): global NodeStack if string.strip(data): app.tree.AppendItem (NodeStack[-1],data) def LoadTree (f): print f # Create a parser Parser = pyexpat.ParserCreate() # Tell the parser what the start element handler is Parser.StartElementHandler = StartElement Parser.EndElementHandler = EndElement Parser.CharacterDataHandler = CharacterData # Parse the XML File ParserStatus = Parser.Parse( open(f,'r').read(), 1) if ParserStatus == 0: print "oops!" raise SystemExit app = MyApp(0) NodeStack = [app.tree.AddRoot ("Root")] app.MainLoop() raise SystemExit Developers Day Co-Chair, 9th International World Wide Web Conference 16-19, May, 2000, Amsterdam, The Netherlands http://www9.org From fermigier@fermigier.com Wed Jul 7 18:23:13 1999 From: fermigier@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:23:13 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] XML and GUI In-Reply-To: <199903181704.MAA19583@hog>; from Jody Winston on Thu, Mar 18, 1999 at 12:04:52PM -0500 References: <199903181704.MAA19583@hog> Message-ID: <19990707192313.B11532@riemann.math.jussieu.fr> On Thu, Mar 18, 1999 at 12:04:52PM -0500, Jody Winston wrote: > I'm looking for XML tools help to build graphical user interfaces, > such as XPToolkit (http://www.mozilla.org/xpfe/) from Mozilla. I've > started to look at using XPToolkit, but it may be difficult to extract > what I need out of Mozilla. http://glade.pn.org/ Glade is a GTK+ interface builder that exports XML specifications of the UI. You can later use them with PyGTK (http://www.daa.com.au/~james/pygtk/) though it's still a bit experimental. S. -- Stéfane Fermigier, MdC à l'Université Paris 7. Tel: 01.44.27.61.01 (Bureau). -- -- . "My main goal has always been to be in the position that I'm not ashamed of what I've done or am doing, and that I'm doing the best I can." Linus Torvalds From Jean-Michel.Bruel@univ-pau.fr Thu Jul 8 09:00:52 1999 From: Jean-Michel.Bruel@univ-pau.fr (Jean-Michel BRUEL) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:00:52 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: [XML-SIG] [Call for Participation: <>'99] Message-ID: <199907080800.KAA05780@crisv4.univ-pau.fr> [apologies if you receive multiple copies of this announcement] ================================================================= Preliminary Call for Participation <>'99 ================================================================= Second International Conference on the Unified Modeling Language October 28-30, 1999, Fort Collins, Colorado, USA (just before OOPSLA) ================================================================= http://www.cs.colostate.edu/UML99 ================================================================= Invited Speakers: Grady Booch and David Harel Registration: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Registration | IEEE/ACM Members | Non-Members | Full-time students ------------------------------------------------------------------- Before Oct. 6 | $405 | $505 | $ 175 | ------------------------------------------------------------------- After Oct. 6 | $490 | $605 | $ 190 | ------------------------------------------------------------------- Full registration includes the following: session attendance, conference lunches and breaks on each day of the conference (3 days), conference reception, conference banquet, and conference proceedings. Student registration includes only session attendance and breaks. Hotel Information (tentative): University Park Holiday Inn, 425 W. Prospect Road, Fort Collins, CO 80526. Single, double, triple, quad rate: $92 per night. Cut-off date: Sept. 13, 1999. Further Information: Robert B. France E-mail: france@cs.colostate.edu Computer Science Department Tel: 970-491-6356 Colorado State University Fax: 970-491-2466 Fort Collins, CO 80523, USA Bernhard Rumpe E-mail: rumpe@in.tum.de Institut fuer Informatik Tel: 0049-89-289-28129 T. Universitaet Muenchen Fax: 0049-89-289-28183 80290 Muenchen, Germany ================================================================= Sponsored by IEEE CS Technical Committee on Complexity in Computing. In Cooperation with ACM SIGSOFT. With the Support of the OMG and Rational Software. UML is a trademark of the OMG. ================================================================= From jack@oratrix.nl Thu Jul 8 09:49:40 1999 From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 10:49:40 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] Bug in exception handling? In-Reply-To: Message by r.hooft@euromail.net (Rob Hooft) , Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:09:18 +0200 (MZT) , <14194.11774.643335.39150@octopus.chem.uu.nl> Message-ID: <19990708084940.C6660303120@snelboot.oratrix.nl> > Sounds like a hack to me. Shouldn't it be solved by INCREF'ing the buffer > somewhere in the C code to pyexpat? e.g. where the exception code makes > reference to the buffer? I didn't look at the code myself, so I don't > know whether it is particularly difficult to find. I looked, but I can't see anything. I haven't a clue how this code code be responsible for an extra free: static PyObject * xmlparse_Parse(self, args) xmlparseobject *self; PyObject *args; { char *s; int slen; int isFinal = 0; int rv; if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "s#|i", &s, &slen, &isFinal)) return NULL; if (setjmp(self->jmpbuf)) { /* Error in callback routine */ return NULL; } self->jmpbuf_valid = 1; rv = XML_Parse(self->itself, s, slen, isFinal); self->jmpbuf_valid = 0; return Py_BuildValue("i", rv); } Hmm, the things you are read()ing from, are they real files? Or could it be that the missing INCREF is in those objects? -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ www.oratrix.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm From r.hooft@euromail.net Thu Jul 8 10:05:11 1999 From: r.hooft@euromail.net (Rob Hooft) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:05:11 +0200 (MZT) Subject: [XML-SIG] Bug in exception handling? In-Reply-To: <19990708084940.C6660303120@snelboot.oratrix.nl> References: <14194.11774.643335.39150@octopus.chem.uu.nl> <19990708084940.C6660303120@snelboot.oratrix.nl> Message-ID: <14212.27079.535375.530493@octopus.chem.uu.nl> > Sounds like a hack to me. Shouldn't it be solved by INCREF'ing the buffer > somewhere in the C code to pyexpat? e.g. where the exception code makes > reference to the buffer? I didn't look at the code myself, so I don't > know whether it is particularly difficult to find. JJ> I looked, but I can't see anything. I haven't a clue how this code code be JJ> responsible for an extra free: [...] JJ> if (setjmp(self->jmpbuf)) { JJ> /* Error in callback routine */ JJ> return NULL; JJ> } [...] But, at this return NULL (i.e. if something went wrong during parsing?) the last reference to "s" disappears, and hence it is garbage collected. Apparently, when the code later tries to find out line number and column of the error, it tries to refer to the same s again, which fails. So either "s" must be INCREF()d before the return NULL, or the error coordinates must be precalculated right there. -- ===== R.Hooft@EuroMail.net http://www.xs4all.nl/~hooft/rob/ ===== ===== R&D, Nonius BV, Delft http://www.nonius.nl/ ===== ===== PGPid 0xFA19277D ========================== Use Linux! ========= From movits@lockstar.com Tue Jul 13 17:23:56 1999 From: movits@lockstar.com (Mordy Ovits) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:23:56 -0400 Subject: [XML-SIG] XML-DOM slow? Message-ID: <378B681C.E8CFCC7F@lockstar.com> I've been playing around with the XML libraries, to great effect. I can't believe how useful it is. However, it seems to be very slow. The (short) program at the bottom of this email takes about 10 seconds to run! What am I doing wrong? Am I defaulting to a slow parser? Thanks! Mordy ----------------------------------------- #!/usr/bin/python from xml.dom.html_builder import HtmlBuilder import urllib from sys import argv s = urllib.urlopen(argv[1]) htmlstr = s.read() b = HtmlBuilder() b.ignore_mismatched_end_tags = 1 b.feed(htmlstr) doc = b.document anchors = doc.getElementsByTagName('A') for a in anchors: if a._node.attributes.has_key("HREF"): href = a._node.attributes["HREF"] print "Title: ", a._node.children[0].value print "Link: ", href.children[0].value print else: print "error in (?)" print a._node.attributes ------------------- -- o Mordy Ovits o Cryptographic Engineer o LockStar Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- #!/usr/local/bin/python from sys import*;from string import*;a=argv;[s,p,q]=filter(lambda x:x[:1]!= '-',a);d='-d'in a;e,n=atol(p,16),atol(q,16);l=(len(q)+1)/2;o,inb=l-d,l-1+d while s:s=stdin.read(inb);s and map(stdout.write,map(lambda i,b=pow(reduce( lambda x,y:(x<<8L)+y,map(ord,s)),e,n):chr(b>>8*i&255),range(o-1,-1,-1))) From wask@mcc.com Tue Jul 13 20:32:30 1999 From: wask@mcc.com (wask@mcc.com) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:32:30 -0500 Subject: [XML-SIG] "&" and "<" within a string Message-ID: saxlib is throwing exceptions when I use "&" and "<" literally within an attribute value of type string, as it should. For example, name= "R&D library" value="/lib" /> The XML spec says to use "&" and "<" when used literally in string. However, if I define name= "R&D library" value="<ROOT>/lib" /> I still get an exception (apparently, the parser accepts the ">" and "/"). Am I interpreting the spec correctly? Any suggestions? Thanks, Fred From larsga@ifi.uio.no Tue Jul 13 20:47:43 1999 From: larsga@ifi.uio.no (Lars Marius Garshol) Date: 13 Jul 1999 21:47:43 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] "&" and "<" within a string In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: * wask@mcc.com | | saxlib is throwing exceptions when I use "&" and "<" literally | within an attribute value of type string, as it should. The first thing to realize is that it's not saxlib that does this, but whichever parser you are using. | However, if I define | | name= "R&D library" value="<ROOT>/lib" /> | | I still get an exception (apparently, the parser accepts the ">" and | "/"). | | Am I interpreting the spec correctly? Any suggestions? What is the exact error message? Where in the document is it thrown? And what does your document really look like? (The example above seems to have some non-fatal typos.) Sorry to be so unhelpful, but I found this message impossible to decipher. --Lars M. From larsga@ifi.uio.no Wed Jul 14 10:50:36 1999 From: larsga@ifi.uio.no (Lars Marius Garshol) Date: 14 Jul 1999 11:50:36 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] dtddoc Message-ID: For a while now I've distributed a DTD documentation tool with xmlproc as a demo of how you can use the DTD parser and API in xmlproc. I developed this further because I needed it, and today I've sat down to package up and release the result. dtddoc extends the xmlproc demo by using documentation written in XML to generate HTML documentation from the DTD and the XML documentation. I hope to be able to extend it later to produce DocBook RefEntry documentation, XML documentation which adds information from the DTD, a skeleton documentation file generator and perhaps also some form of support for other formats than HTML, such as PDF, TeX etc. You can get dtddoc from: Comments and suggestions are very welcome, and expected, since I know that the DTD and functionality are far from complete. I have to return to other projects now, though, so don't expect further developments for a while. --Lars M. From grove@infotek.no Wed Jul 14 13:45:33 1999 From: grove@infotek.no (Geir Ove Grønmo) Date: 13 Jul 1999 13:45:33 -2300 Subject: [XML-SIG] ANN: tmproc 0.20, a Topic Maps implementation Message-ID: Hello, I'm pleased to announce the second release of tmproc, a Topic Map processor. This release is updated according to the final standard. Suggestions and bug reports should be sent to: grove@infotek.no Enjoy! Geir O. Grønmo -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Title: tmproc Version: 0.20 Released: July 14th 1999 Author: Geir O. Grønmo, grove@infotek.no Homepage: http://www.infotek.no/~grove/software/tmproc/index.html - -- >>> What's new? o This version supports the final release of the standard. o Minor bugfixes o Works with the Java Platform (JPython[1]) - -- >>> What is tmproc? tmproc is an implementation of the new international standard ISO/IEC 13250 Topic Maps[2]. tmproc is written in Python, and should work on any platform to which Python have been ported - including the Java Platform. - -- >>> What are Topic Maps? 'Topic Maps' is a new international standard (ISO/IEC 13250) for layering multidimensional topic spaces on top of information assets. The standard covers concepts like topics, associations, occurrences and facets/metadata. Topic Maps are expected to have a major impact on future information systems. - -- >>> Features o Import, export, query and manipulation of topic maps. o Full set of extensible topic map classes with clearly defined interfaces. o Optional architectural processing [requires xmlarch]. o Introduction and reference documentation. o Statistical and information printing classes o Command line utility for interactive exploration - -- >>> Requirements - Python 1.5.1 or newer [3] - An SGML/XML parser with a SAX driver - SAX for Python [4] - xmlarch 0.25, optional unless architectural processing is needed [5] - -- >>> Licence tmproc is free for both non-commercial and commercial use. Redistribution of tmproc in commercial products requires another licence. See [*] for detailed licence information. - -- >>> References [1] http://www.jpython.org/ [2] http://www.ornl.gov/sgml/SC34/ [3] http://www.python.org/ [4] http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~larsga/download/python/xml/saxlib.html [5] http://www.infotek.no/~grove/software/xmlarch/index.html [*] http://www.infotek.no/~grove/software/tmproc/licence.html --------------------------------------------------------------------------

tmproc 0.20 - an implementation of Topic Maps, a new international standard (ISO/IEC 13250:1999) for layering multidimensional topic spaces on top of information assets. (14-Jul-1999) From wask@mcc.com Wed Jul 14 23:09:36 1999 From: wask@mcc.com (wask@mcc.com) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:09:36 -0500 Subject: [XML-SIG] Parsing exception on CDATA Message-ID: Apologies in advance if this questionis old hat. Why do I receive a SAXParseException: Illegal construct on should be ignored.]]> contained within The Round Door Tom Evans 1996 0-9546-0274-3 $23.00 An Intriguing Tale Of A Round Door In A Wall should be ignored.]]> Thanks, Fred From steve@renlabs.com Thu Jul 15 01:38:37 1999 From: steve@renlabs.com (Steven Work) Date: 14 Jul 1999 17:38:37 -0700 Subject: [XML-SIG] Parsing exception on CDATA In-Reply-To: wask@mcc.com's message of "Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:09:36 -0500" References: Message-ID: <87yagi3fxu.fsf@solano.in.renlabs.com> wask@mcc.com writes: > should be ignored.]]> Is a space allowed between 'CDATA' and '['? -- Steven Work Renaissance Labs steve@renlabs.com 360 647-1833 From larsga@ifi.uio.no Thu Jul 15 06:45:11 1999 From: larsga@ifi.uio.no (Lars Marius Garshol) Date: 15 Jul 1999 07:45:11 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] Parsing exception on CDATA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: * wask@mcc.com | | Why do I receive a | | SAXParseException: Illegal construct | | on | | should be ignored.]]> ^ Whitespace is not allowed before the second '[', which is what causes the problem. Remove the space and you should be OK. --Lars M. From tpassin@idsonline.com Thu Jul 15 13:22:08 1999 From: tpassin@idsonline.com (Thomas B. Passin) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 08:22:08 -0400 Subject: : [XML-SIG] "&" and "<" within a string Message-ID: <001001becebc$a9450980$5dfbb1cd@tpassinids> On Tuesday, 13 July, wasc wrote: >Subject: [XML-SIG] "&" and "<" within a string >saxlib is throwing exceptions when I use "&" and "<" literally within an >attribute value of type string, as it should. >For example, > name= "R&D library" value="/lib" /> >The XML spec says to use "&" and "<" when used literally in string. >However, if I define > name= "R&D library" value="<ROOT>/lib" /> >I still get an exception (apparently, the parser accepts the ">" and "/"). >Am I interpreting the spec correctly? Any suggestions? >Thanks, >Fred Your problem is ill-formed XML, if your sample code is accurate. The following version works fine (meaning that it gets accepted by the msxml parser, and by xt if you have an acceptable stylesheet): Here is a stylesheet for the above xml that works with xt: name: value: Here is the xt output: C:>xt x1.xml x1.xsl name: R&D library value: <ROOT>/lib Regards, Thomas Passin From tpassin@idsonline.com Thu Jul 15 13:26:28 1999 From: tpassin@idsonline.com (Thomas B. Passin) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 08:26:28 -0400 Subject: [XML-SIG] Re: XML-SIG digest, Vol 1 #331 - 3 msgs Message-ID: <001101becebd$43fdcd40$5dfbb1cd@tpassinids> -----Original Message----- From: xml-sig-admin@python.org To: xml-sig@python.org Date: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 3:11 AM Subject: XML-SIG digest, Vol 1 #331 - 3 msgs > >Send XML-SIG mailing list submissions to > xml-sig@python.org > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/xml-sig >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > xml-sig-request@python.org >You can reach the person managing the list at > xml-sig-admin@python.org > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than >"Re: Contents of XML-SIG digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. XML-DOM slow? (Mordy Ovits) > 2. "&" and "<" within a string (wask@mcc.com) > 3. Re: "&" and "<" within a string (Lars Marius Garshol) > >--__--__-- > >Message: 1 >Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:23:56 -0400 >From: Mordy Ovits >Organization: LockStar >To: xml-sig@python.org >Subject: [XML-SIG] XML-DOM slow? > >I've been playing around with the XML libraries, to great effect. I >can't believe how useful it is. However, it seems to be very slow. >The (short) program at the bottom of this email takes about 10 seconds >to run! >What am I doing wrong? Am I defaulting to a slow parser? >Thanks! >Mordy >----------------------------------------- >#!/usr/bin/python > >from xml.dom.html_builder import HtmlBuilder >import urllib >from sys import argv > >s = urllib.urlopen(argv[1]) > >htmlstr = s.read() > >b = HtmlBuilder() > >b.ignore_mismatched_end_tags = 1 >b.feed(htmlstr) >doc = b.document > >anchors = doc.getElementsByTagName('A') >for a in anchors: > if a._node.attributes.has_key("HREF"): > href = a._node.attributes["HREF"] > print "Title: ", a._node.children[0].value > print "Link: ", href.children[0].value > print > else: > print "error in (?)" > print a._node.attributes >------------------- >-- >o Mordy Ovits >o Cryptographic Engineer >o LockStar Inc. >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >#!/usr/local/bin/python >from sys import*;from string import*;a=argv;[s,p,q]=filter(lambda >x:x[:1]!= >'-',a);d='-d'in >a;e,n=atol(p,16),atol(q,16);l=(len(q)+1)/2;o,inb=l-d,l-1+d >while s:s=stdin.read(inb);s and map(stdout.write,map(lambda >i,b=pow(reduce( >lambda x,y:(x<<8L)+y,map(ord,s)),e,n):chr(b>>8*i&255),range(o-1,-1,-1))) > >--__--__-- > >Message: 2 >From: wask@mcc.com >Reply-To: >To: "'XML SIG'" >Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:32:30 -0500 >charset="iso-8859-1" >Subject: [XML-SIG] "&" and "<" within a string > >saxlib is throwing exceptions when I use "&" and "<" literally within an >attribute value of type string, as it should. > >For example, > > name= "R&D library" value="/lib" /> > >The XML spec says to use "&" and "<" when used literally in string. >However, if I define > > name= "R&D library" value="<ROOT>/lib" /> > >I still get an exception (apparently, the parser accepts the ">" and "/"). > >Am I interpreting the spec correctly? Any suggestions? > >Thanks, > >Fred > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 3 >To: "'XML SIG'" >Subject: Re: [XML-SIG] "&" and "<" within a string >From: Lars Marius Garshol >Date: 13 Jul 1999 21:47:43 +0200 > > >* wask@mcc.com >| >| saxlib is throwing exceptions when I use "&" and "<" literally >| within an attribute value of type string, as it should. > >The first thing to realize is that it's not saxlib that does this, but >whichever parser you are using. > >| However, if I define >| >| name= "R&D library" value="<ROOT>/lib" /> >| >| I still get an exception (apparently, the parser accepts the ">" and >| "/"). >| >| Am I interpreting the spec correctly? Any suggestions? > >What is the exact error message? Where in the document is it thrown? >And what does your document really look like? (The example above seems >to have some non-fatal typos.) > >Sorry to be so unhelpful, but I found this message impossible to >decipher. > >--Lars M. > > > > >End of XML-SIG Digest From ajung@sz-sb.de Fri Jul 16 11:52:30 1999 From: ajung@sz-sb.de (Andreas Jung) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:52:30 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] sgmllib has problems with dots in tag names Message-ID: <19990716125230.A14994@sz-sb.de> The SGML parsers from the standard sgmllib and the XML sgmllib war both unable to parse SGML tags with dots in the tag name like . The parsers callback functions only get the first part of the tag name (before the dot) as argument (in this case 'TI'). Because the tags are valid SGML tags this is a bit annoying. Ok, one could get a workaround by replacing all dots in tags with an underscore however that's not a clean solution :-) Any others ideas ? Thanks, Andreas From Fred L. Drake, Jr." References: <19990716125230.A14994@sz-sb.de> Message-ID: <14223.12495.910694.301072@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> Andreas Jung writes: > The SGML parsers from the standard sgmllib and the XML sgmllib war both > unable to parse SGML tags with dots in the tag name like . The > parsers callback functions only get the first part of the tag name (before > the dot) as argument (in this case 'TI'). Because the tags are valid SGML > tags this is a bit annoying. Ok, one could get a workaround by replacing > all dots in tags with an underscore however that's not a clean solution :-) Andreas, Ok, I've poked at the standard sgmllib a bit to see what the problem is. The parser is recognizing the start and end tags. Once recognized, it is looking for the handler methods start_*() / end_*() or do_*(). Since there's a dot in the name, these methods are not defined, and the unknown_*tag() methods are called instead of the handle_*tag() methods. It should be easy to override the unknown_*tag() methods to use a table-based dispatcher or performs some form or name mangling, then passes known tags through to the handle_*tag() methods or whatever. This seems to be the easiest way to deal with the situation in the short term. If you have any suggestions for a better approach to take, I'd love to hear it. It may not be unreasonable to use a mechanism similar to that used by xmllib (a table of registered handler methods). -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. Corporation for National Research Initiatives From ajung@sz-sb.de Fri Jul 16 14:33:24 1999 From: ajung@sz-sb.de (Andreas Jung) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 15:33:24 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] sgmllib has problems with dots in tag names In-Reply-To: <14223.12495.910694.301072@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us>; from Fred L. Drake on Fri, Jul 16, 1999 at 09:17:03AM -0400 References: <19990716125230.A14994@sz-sb.de> <14223.12495.910694.301072@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <19990716153323.A23945@sz-sb.de> On Fri, Jul 16, 1999 at 09:17:03AM -0400, Fred L. Drake wrote: > > Ok, I've poked at the standard sgmllib a bit to see what the problem > is. The parser is recognizing the start and end tags. Once > recognized, it is looking for the handler methods start_*() / end_*() > or do_*(). Since there's a dot in the name, these methods are not > defined, and the unknown_*tag() methods are called instead of the > handle_*tag() methods. > It should be easy to override the unknown_*tag() methods to use a > table-based dispatcher or performs some form or name mangling, then > passes known tags through to the handle_*tag() methods or whatever. > This seems to be the easiest way to deal with the situation in the > short term. That's a solution that works with the standard sgmllib from the Python distribution. However this solution does not work with sgmllib from xml.parsers. I'm not sure if tag names with dots in their names are valid in XML or not. So this might explain the different behaviour however I don't think that's the reason. Maybe I'll find the real reason over the weekend. Andreas -- _\\|//_ (' O-O ') ------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------------------------- Andreas Jung, Saarbrücker Zeitung Verlag und Druckerei GmbH Saarbrücker Daten-Innovations-Center Gutenbergstr. 11-23, D-66103 Saarbrücken, Germany Phone: +49-(0)681-502-1563, Fax: +49-(0)681-502-1509 Email: ajung@sz-sb.de (PGP key available) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sean@digitome.com Fri Jul 16 12:45:39 1999 From: sean@digitome.com (Sean Mc Grath) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:45:39 +0100 Subject: [XML-SIG] sgmllib has problems with dots in tag names In-Reply-To: <19990716125230.A14994@sz-sb.de> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990716124539.0098d810@gpo.iol.ie> At 12:52 16/07/99 +0200, you wrote: >The SGML parsers from the standard sgmllib and the XML sgmllib war both >unable to parse SGML tags with dots in the tag name like . The >parsers callback functions only get the first part of the tag name (before >the dot) as argument (in this case 'TI'). Because the tags are valid SGML >tags this is a bit annoying. Ok, one could get a workaround by replacing >all dots in tags with an underscore however that's not a clean solution :-) > If you want callbacks named after element types, then there is no way out other than to do some name mangling. There are lots of characters valid in SGML/XML element type names that are not legal in function/method names. Characters like "-" and "." are popular ones:-) The SAX way is to have a generic element handler to which the element type name is passed as a String. This gets round the problem but is sooooo much less convenient than the element specific callback approach. Developers Day Co-Chair, 9th International World Wide Web Conference 16-19, May, 2000, Amsterdam, The Netherlands http://www9.org From nico@salience.nl Mon Jul 19 09:17:54 1999 From: nico@salience.nl (N.A.F.M. Poppelier) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:17:54 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] Re: sgmllib has problems with dots in tag names (XML-SIG digest, Vol 1 #334) References: <199907170502.BAA05493@python.org> Message-ID: <3792DF32.83AEAC6E@salience.nl> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F4638FB6F8782776CFD7230F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit xml-sig-admin@python.org wrote: > That's a solution that works with the standard sgmllib from the Python > distribution. However this solution does not work with sgmllib from > xml.parsers. I'm not sure if tag names with dots in their names are valid in XML > or not. > If you want callbacks named after element types, then there is no way > out other than to do some name mangling. There are lots of characters > valid in SGML/XML element type names that are not legal in function/method > names. Characters like "-" and "." are popular ones:-) As anyone with a Web browser can verify, version 1.0 of the XML standard defines a name (appearing in a start tag or end tag, for example) as "a token beginning with a letter or one of a few punctuation characters, and continuing with letters, digits, hyphens, underscores, colons, or full stops, [...]". It is natural to use the element name or tag name as the default name to generate a function or method name. But in cases where the name space of the programming language used is not identical to the name space of XML, some escape mechanism must be in place. One possibility is to allow the user to specify a map from XML name to function/method name, and use the value from this map, if it exists, and otherwise use the default based on the XML name. Nico --------------F4638FB6F8782776CFD7230F Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="nico.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for N.A.F.M. Poppelier Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="nico.vcf" begin:vcard n:Poppelier;Nico tel;pager:- tel;cell:06-20412666 tel;fax:- tel;home:- tel;work:030-6056675 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.salience.nl org:Salience adr:;;Villawal 21;Nieuwegein;;;The Netherlands version:2.1 email;internet:nico@salience.nl title:project manager SGML/XML note;quoted-printable:''The new pond=0D=0AA frog jumps in=0D=0ADeadly silence'' fn:Nico Poppelier end:vcard --------------F4638FB6F8782776CFD7230F-- From movits@lockstar.com Mon Jul 19 21:00:41 1999 From: movits@lockstar.com (Mordy Ovits) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:00:41 -0700 Subject: [XML-SIG] Uche Ogbuji in today's New York Times Message-ID: <379383E9.45ED9DC2@lockstar.com> He's in the front page article in the Business section. 'Twas way cool to see a fellow pythoneer in the NYT :-) Mordy -- o Mordy Ovits o Cryptographic Engineer o LockStar Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- #!/usr/local/bin/python from sys import*;from string import*;a=argv;[s,p,q]=filter(lambda x:x[:1]!= '-',a);d='-d'in a;e,n=atol(p,16),atol(q,16);l=(len(q)+1)/2;o,inb=l-d,l-1+d while s:s=stdin.read(inb);s and map(stdout.write,map(lambda i,b=pow(reduce( lambda x,y:(x<<8L)+y,map(ord,s)),e,n):chr(b>>8*i&255),range(o-1,-1,-1))) From Jean-Michel.Bruel@univ-pau.fr Thu Jul 22 10:20:00 1999 From: Jean-Michel.Bruel@univ-pau.fr (Jean-Michel BRUEL) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:20:00 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: [XML-SIG] [CFP:] OOPSLA'99 Workshop Message-ID: <199907220920.LAA12325@crisv4.univ-pau.fr> [apologies if you receive multiple copies of this announcement] ================================================================= Call for Papers ================================================================= OOPSLA'99 Workshop on Rigorous Modeling and Analysis with the UML: Challenges and Limitations Workshop #23 DENVER, COLORADO Tuesday, November 2nd, 1999 ------------------------------ workshop website: http://www.univ-pau.fr/OOPSLA99 - o 0 o - WORKSHOP OVERVIEW ================== The UML is a standard object modeling language that is targeted at large, complex systems. The high quality experiences embedded in the UML certainly makes its application to complex systems desirable, but the lack of precise semantics that support rigorous semantic analyses can limit its effectiveness. The modeling of complex systems requires the use of modeling constructs that provide complexity management mechanisms and that allow for the early detection of errors in requirements and designs. The separation of views principle has proven to be an effective means of controlling complexity and is well-supported by the UML. On the other hand, the formality and rigor principle that facilitates the detection of errors in requirements and designs is not well-supported in the UML. The purpose of the proposed workshop is to bring together researchers and practitioners from academia and industry to discuss the semantic foundations of the UML as described in the OMG-UML documentation (current version is 1.3). Presentations and discussions will focus on identifying deficiencies in the UML semantics foundation, analyzing proposed approaches to addressing the deficiencies, understanding UML limitations and identifying the challenges that will have to be met in making the UML a rigorous modeling notation. Particular attention will be paid to the meta-modeling approach to semantics and to the OCL. TOPICS ======= The workshop topics include: * Semantic foundations for UML static and dynamic models * Use of meta-models to express semantics * Semantic foundations for the OCL * Using the OCL to support rigorous reasoning * UML support for rigorous development of software (including support for the use of software architectures and frameworks) FORMAT ======= This workshop is the second of a planned series of workshops on strengthening the UML semantic foundation. The first workshop was held at ECOOP'99 (see http://www.cs.ukc.ac.uk/people/staff/sjhk/detail/ecoop99/UMLsemanticsFAQ/index.html). The first workshop focused primarily on the utility of having precise semantics. In the OOPSLA'99 workshop the focus will be on the semantic foundations of the UML notations. The workshop will consist mainly of working groups that focus on a specific problem. There will be at least three invited presentations that highlight UML deficiencies and proposed development paths for the UML. The presentations, given in the first hour of the workshop, will provide some of the context for much of the discussions in the working groups. The working groups will be determined by the submissions to the workshop and will be announced at least 1 week before the workshop starts. SUBMISSIONS & PARTICIPATION ============================ Attendance will be by invitation only. If you would like to be considered for participation you are asked to prepare a statement outlining your perception of the UML semantics and the use of the UML for rigorous modeling. Statements on the following topics are especially welcome: (1) deficiencies in the UML semantics, (2) expressing semantics using meta-models, (3) OCL semantics, (4) analysis of OCL expressions (including proposals for automated support for analysis), (5) using the UML for rigorous specification and analysis, (6) providing automated support for rigorous analysis of UML models. Send submissions via email to oopsla99@in.tum.de. Submissions should not exceed 2 pages (10 pt., single space) and should be in one of the following formats: * Plain text * Postscript * .pdf formats Accepted submissions will be placed on the workshop website (http://www.univ-pau.fr/OOPSLA99). IMPORTANT DATES ================ Submission deadline: September 10th, 1999 Notification date: October 1st, 1999 Workshop date: November 2nd, 1999 ORGANIZERS =========== This workshop is organized by members the Precise UML (pUML) group (http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/puml). Workshop Coordinators ---------------------- Robert France, Organizing Chair Department of Computer Science Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523-1873. phone: 970-491-6356 fax: 970-491-2466 Email: france@cs.colostate.edu Bernhard Rumpe, Program Co-Chair Faculty for Computer Science Technische Universität München D-80333 Munich, Germany. Phone: +49 -89 -289-28129 Fax: +49 -89 -289-28183 Email: rumpe@in.tum.de Brian Henderson-Sellers, Program Co-Chair Director, Centre for Object Technology Applications and Research and Professor of Information Systems School of Computing Sciences University of Technology, Sydney, Australia. phone: +61 (0)2 9514 1687 fax: +61 (0)2 9514 1807 Email: brian@socs.uts.edu.au Jean-Michel Bruel, Publicity Chair & On-site Coordinator Laboratoire T.A.S.C. Université de Pau et des Pays de l'Adour F-64000 Pau, France. phone: +33(0)5.59.92.31.89 fax: +33(0)5.59.80.83.74 Email: Jean-Michel.Bruel@univ-pau.fr Ana Moreira, On-site Coordinator Departamento de Informática Faculdade de Ciencias e Tecnologia Universidade Nova de Lisboa 2825 Monte da Caparica, Portugal phone: +351-1-294 85 36 Ext. 0716 fax: +351-1-294 85 41 email: amm@di.fct.unl.pt From wask@mcc.com Thu Jul 22 17:22:12 1999 From: wask@mcc.com (wask@mcc.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:22:12 -0500 Subject: [XML-SIG] XML Package dependency on Python Message-ID: Hello, all -- I am running the XML package in conjunction with JPython. Since the JPython site states that a lot of the Python capability is found within JPython, I decided not to install Python. However, the parser search capability within saxexts depends upon the import functionality found in imp. As imp is not implemented in JPython, I am forced to install Python just to get the ability to search for a parser. Is my understanding correct? While memory is not an issue, this seems to be adding unnecessary complexity to the JPython environment build process. --- Fred From jefftc@leland.Stanford.EDU Thu Jul 22 20:29:10 1999 From: jefftc@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jeffrey Chang) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:29:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [XML-SIG] insert_whitespace function Message-ID: Hello everybody, I've written an insert_whitespace function that complements the functionality of xml.dom.utils.strip_whitespace. Given a DOM tree with no extraneous whitespace, it will insert some so that the tree can be printed prettily with toxml(). I hope that this would eventually be added to the utils.py file as I believe it is useful. I do not have any really elaborate XML documents to test this on, so if you find some cases where this function fails, please send them to me. Thanks, Jeff from xml.dom import core def insert_whitespace(node, spacing=2, indent=0): """insert_whitespace(node[, spacing=2]) Format a DOM tree prettily by inserting whitespace where appropriate. spacing specifies the number of spaces to indent. This assumes that the tree has been stripped of whitespace. """ indented_types = [core.ELEMENT_NODE, # which node types to indent core.PROCESSING_INSTRUCTION, core.COMMENT_NODE] doc = node.get_ownerDocument() if(doc is None): # I'm the root node, start the recursion for child in node.childNodes[:]: insert_whitespace(child, spacing=spacing, indent=indent) return indent_str = "\n" + " "*(indent+spacing) indented=0 # has anything been indented? for child in node.childNodes[:]: if(child.nodeType in indented_types): node.insertBefore(doc.createTextNode(indent_str), child) indented=1 insert_whitespace(child, spacing=spacing, indent=indent+spacing) if(indented): # need to indent my close tag node.appendChild(doc.createTextNode("\n" + " "*indent)) From Amos@digicool.com Thu Jul 22 21:52:46 1999 From: Amos@digicool.com (Amos Latteier) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:52:46 -0400 Subject: [XML-SIG] ANNOUNCE: XMLDocument 1.0a1 Message-ID: <613145F79272D211914B0020AFF640190AD2CA@gandalf.digicool.com> I am pleased to announce the first alpha release of XML Document. XML Document allows you to use xml objects in the Zope environment. You can create xml documents in Zope and leverage Zope to format, query, and manipulate xml. http://www.zope.org/Download/XMLDocument This release requires Zope 2.0x and the pyexpat parser which will be distributed with Zope come Zope 2.0b1. Until the Zope beta release you can get pyexpat from the Python xml-sig's xml package. http://www.python.org/sigs/xml-sig I'd love feedback on the functionality and design of this product. I think that it has a lot of potential. Also I encourage contributions on this project since I do not have a lot of time to spend on it myself. Happy xml hacking! -Amos P.S. Install it like a normal Zope product, i.e. ungzip and untar in inside your Zope directory. If you are using the xml-sig pyexpat, Zope will expect to find it in xml.parsers.pyexpat. -- Amos Latteier mailto:amos@digicool.com Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com From wask@mcc.com Thu Jul 22 22:02:50 1999 From: wask@mcc.com (wask@mcc.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:02:50 -0500 Subject: [XML-SIG] Inconsistent module names Message-ID: [Apologies in advance if this topic has been thrashed out before.] Hardcoded in saxexts (see below) is the expanded module name for parser drivers, which implies that the xml directory structure in Windows is (root)\xml\sax\drivers Yet when I unzip the dowload, the files go into the ...\xml-0.5.1 directory. Thus, it takes some time to fgigure out to rename the directory to "xml". I know this is a nit but it is the type of thing that discredits software in the business world. --- Fred # --- Creating parser factories XMLParserFactory=ParserFactory(["xml.sax.drivers.drv_pyexpat", "xml.sax.drivers.drv_xmltok", "xml.sax.drivers.drv_xmlproc", "xml.sax.drivers.drv_xmltoolkit", "xml.sax.drivers.drv_xmllib", "xml.sax.drivers.drv_xmldc", "xml.sax.drivers.drv_sgmlop"]) XMLValParserFactory=ParserFactory(["xml.sax.drivers.drv_xmlproc_val"]) HTMLParserFactory=ParserFactory(["xml.sax.drivers.drv_htmllib", "xml.sax.drivers.drv_sgmlop", "xml.sax.drivers.drv_sgmllib"]) SGMLParserFactory=ParserFactory(["xml.sax.drivers.drv_sgmlop", "xml.sax.drivers.drv_sgmllib"]) From Fred L. Drake, Jr." References: Message-ID: <14231.35552.403804.460987@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> wask@mcc.com writes: > Yet when I unzip the dowload, the files go into the ...\xml-0.5.1 directory. > > Thus, it takes some time to fgigure out to rename the directory to "xml". I think this is a really annoying thing; the Python package directory is used as a general dumping ground for a bunch of stuff other than the actual package code. (README, documentation and demo directories, etc.) I think the right approach is to have a distribution directory that contains the package directory and the other stuff. For those of use that use a CVS checkout named "xml", we'd get something like: xml/demos/ docs/ README xml/ The packaged distribution should end up like this: xml-VERSION/demos/ docs/ README xml/ This is the way the distutils tree is laid out (in part because I pressured Greg to do it that way;). Does anyone else agree? Alternatives? -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. Corporation for National Research Initiatives From scott@chronis.pobox.com Thu Jul 22 22:48:12 1999 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott Cotton) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:48:12 -0400 Subject: [XML-SIG] Inconsistent module names In-Reply-To: <14231.35552.403804.460987@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us>; from Fred L. Drake on Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 05:19:28PM -0400 References: <14231.35552.403804.460987@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <19990722174811.A826@chronis.pobox.com> On Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 05:19:28PM -0400, Fred L. Drake wrote: | | wask@mcc.com writes: | > Yet when I unzip the dowload, the files go into the ...\xml-0.5.1 directory. | > | > Thus, it takes some time to fgigure out to rename the directory to "xml". | | I think this is a really annoying thing; the Python package | directory is used as a general dumping ground for a bunch of stuff | other than the actual package code. (README, documentation and demo | directories, etc.) | I think the right approach is to have a distribution directory that | contains the package directory and the other stuff. For those of use | that use a CVS checkout named "xml", we'd get something like: | | xml/demos/ | docs/ | README | xml/ | | The packaged distribution should end up like this: | | xml-VERSION/demos/ | docs/ | README | xml/ | | This is the way the distutils tree is laid out (in part because I | pressured Greg to do it that way;). | Does anyone else agree? Alternatives? Absolutely. I've switched back and forth between both repository organization types for several projects at work, and separating the source from the README, etc. has turned out to be *much* better in practice. What it comes down to for me is that the source is always a distinct category when compared to all the non-source parts of a project, so it always works well when there are any non-source files in a repository. The other way just confuses the issue of what the source when browsing the directory structure of a repository. scott From niko@cmsplatform.com Fri Jul 23 00:07:38 1999 From: niko@cmsplatform.com (Nik O) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:07:38 -0600 Subject: [XML-SIG] Inconsistent module names Message-ID: <010201bed497$0a067c60$1a5e360a@tetondata.com> Scott Cotton wrote: > >I've switched back and forth between both repository organization >types for several projects at work, and separating the source from >the README, etc. has turned out to be *much* better in practice. Absolutely agreed. My years of developing software and managing groups of progs and non-progs (e.g. artists, tech writers) have convinced me that the most functional project/program/thing tree structure is: ./foo <== .bin, .exe, .html, .ini, _whatever_it_takes_to_run_foo /docuser <== "end-user" doc: readme, .doc, .txt, .html, _whatever_enduser_reads /docdev <== "developer" doc: readme, .doc, .txt, .html, _whatever_developer_reads /source <== .c, .h, .rc, .py, .lib, .mak, .prj, _whatever_prog_needs_to_build_foo /object <== .obj, .map, _any_build_foo_process_temps Sometimes a "./foo/images", or "./foo/prefs", or something similar is useful to further organize the "_whatever_it_takes_to_run_foo" stuff. With the above structure, it is very simple to prune branches that aren't pertinent to a specific release package, e.g., "end-users" would get only "./foo", "./foo/docuser", and "./foo/images", whilst a developer might get the entire tree, and a tech writer might get just the "./foo" and "./foo/doc*" branches. Hope y'all will forgive my obvious C bias -- i don't really use Python that much, but XML is XML, and software engineering is software engineering. Regards, -Nik O, Content Mgmt Solutions, Jackson, Wyo. From larsga@ifi.uio.no Fri Jul 23 06:35:45 1999 From: larsga@ifi.uio.no (Lars Marius Garshol) Date: 23 Jul 1999 07:35:45 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] Inconsistent module names In-Reply-To: <14231.35552.403804.460987@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> References: <14231.35552.403804.460987@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: * Fred L. Drake | | The packaged distribution should end up like this: | | xml-VERSION/demos/ | docs/ | README | xml/ | | [...] | Does anyone else agree? Alternatives? I agree. The tree as it is now is too flat and there's too much stuff in the root directory anyway, quite apart from the fact that it mixes up the sources with other things. --Lars M. From wask@mcc.com Fri Jul 23 17:23:02 1999 From: wask@mcc.com (wask@mcc.com) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:23:02 -0500 Subject: [XML-SIG] More on XML / Python dependencies Message-ID: Hello, again --- The other day I sent the following: > I am running the XML package in conjunction with JPython. Since the JPython > site states that a lot of the Python capability is found within JPython, I > decided not to install Python. > However, the parser search capability within saxexts depends upon the import > functionality found in imp. As imp is not implemented in JPython, I am > forced to install Python just to get the ability to search for a parser. With a replacement for saxexts that I was directed to, I obtain "imp" from org.python.core, not Python. for parser_name in list: if sys.platform[:4] == "java": try: from org.python.core import imp However, I'm still forced into the Python environment in the next statement: drv_module = imp.importName(parser_name, 0, globals()) (An exception I got was that urllib couldn't be found. On my machine, that module is in Python's \Lib directory.) I'm not haggling over code. Rather, I wish to raise the question whether or not there are plans afoot to decouple XML from Python? This issue is more than that of what type of files are stored in which directories. I raise this question as I have a customer whom I'm trying to convince to use JPython. I told him he didn't need to install Python. Currently, that is wrong when using the XML package. Please understand that I am not criticizing - I'm just trying to get a better understanding of the environment. --- Fred From larsga@ifi.uio.no Fri Jul 23 18:02:34 1999 From: larsga@ifi.uio.no (Lars Marius Garshol) Date: 23 Jul 1999 19:02:34 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] More on XML / Python dependencies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: * wask@mcc.com | | However, I'm still forced into the Python environment in the next | statement: | | drv_module = imp.importName(parser_name, 0, globals()) | | (An exception I got was that urllib couldn't be found. On my | machine, that module is in Python's \Lib directory.) You can use the Python libraries with JPython. (Well, most of them.) See step 3 on for a description of how. | I'm not haggling over code. Rather, I wish to raise the question | whether or not there are plans afoot to decouple XML from Python? Fred, I don't understand this question at all. What do you mean by decoupling XML from Python? After all, it is 100% independent of Python, and all we're doing is making software for working with it inside Python. --Lars M. From wask@mcc.com Fri Jul 23 19:01:45 1999 From: wask@mcc.com (wask@mcc.com) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:01:45 -0500 Subject: [XML-SIG] More on XML / Python dependencies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lars -- You wrote: > You can use the Python libraries with JPython. (Well, most of them.) > See step 3 on description of how. Looks like I'm guilty of the old adage: "When all else fails, read the directions!" > Fred, I don't understand this question at all. What do you mean by > decoupling XML from Python? After all, it is 100% independent of > Python, and all we're doing is making software for working with it > inside Python. I guess I'm splitting hairs. Perhaps "bundle" would be more accurate than "couple". My point is that in order to use the XML package with JPython, I must: 1.) install JPython (java JPython11beta2) 2.) install the XML package (unzip xml-0_5_1.tgz) 3.) install the necessary Python libraries (jpython -jar pylib152b.jar) Why go through step 3? Why not simply *bundle* those libraries with JPython? I'm off of my soap box. Have a good weekend. --- Fred From Fred L. Drake, Jr." References: Message-ID: <14232.44850.850721.281778@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> wask@mcc.com writes: > I guess I'm splitting hairs. Perhaps "bundle" would be more accurate than > "couple". My point is that in order to use the XML package with JPython, I > must: > > 1.) install JPython (java JPython11beta2) > 2.) install the XML package (unzip xml-0_5_1.tgz) > 3.) install the necessary Python libraries (jpython -jar pylib152b.jar) > > Why go through step 3? Why not simply *bundle* those libraries with JPython? Fred, This seems to be entirely a JPython packaging issue. I've forwarded your message to Barry Warsaw (bwarsaw@python.org), the JPython maintainer. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. Corporation for National Research Initiatives From grove@infotek.no Sun Jul 25 23:19:48 1999 From: grove@infotek.no (Geir Ove Grønmo) Date: 26 Jul 1999 00:19:48 +0200 Subject: [XML-SIG] XML Package dependency on Python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: * wask@mcc.com | Hello, all -- | | I am running the XML package in conjunction with JPython. Since the JPython | site states that a lot of the Python capability is found within JPython, I | decided not to install Python. | | However, the parser search capability within saxexts depends upon the import | functionality found in imp. As imp is not implemented in JPython, I am | forced to install Python just to get the ability to search for a parser. | | Is my understanding correct? While memory is not an issue, this seems to be | adding unnecessary complexity to the JPython environment build process. http://www.infotek.no/~grove/saxexts.py should fix this. Geir O. From akuchlin@mems-exchange.org Tue Jul 27 14:47:04 1999 From: akuchlin@mems-exchange.org (Andrew M. Kuchling) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:47:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [XML-SIG] Inconsistent module names In-Reply-To: References: <14231.35552.403804.460987@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <14237.47192.803781.479900@amarok.cnri.reston.va.us> Lars Marius Garshol quoted: >* Fred L. Drake >| The packaged distribution should end up like this: >| xml-VERSION/demos/ >| docs/ >| README >| xml/ OK; I'll try to get around to doing this. (People with commit privileges can feel free to do it for me, too.) -- A.M. Kuchling http://starship.python.net/crew/amk/ A committee is a cul-de-sac down which ideas are lured and then quietly strangled. -- Sir Barnett Cocks From Fred L. Drake, Jr." References: <14231.35552.403804.460987@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> <14237.47192.803781.479900@amarok.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <14237.47779.965703.944976@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> Andrew M. Kuchling writes: > OK; I'll try to get around to doing this. (People with commit > privileges can feel free to do it for me, too.) This kind of operation is most easily done by someone who can reach into the actual repository using "mv" and the like... ;-) Which is not to say that's a *good* way to do it. Since it will probably take a little while and may be disconcerting for people with modified working files, we should probably agree at least about who will do it and give 24 hours notice so people can get changes checked in beforehand if desired. I'm willing to do it the right way toward the end of the week if that works for people. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. Corporation for National Research Initiatives From akuchlin@mems-exchange.org Tue Jul 27 14:59:58 1999 From: akuchlin@mems-exchange.org (Andrew M. Kuchling) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:59:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [XML-SIG] Inconsistent module names In-Reply-To: <14237.47779.965703.944976@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> References: <14231.35552.403804.460987@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> <14237.47192.803781.479900@amarok.cnri.reston.va.us> <14237.47779.965703.944976@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <14237.47966.313734.724853@amarok.cnri.reston.va.us> Fred L. Drake writes: > This kind of operation is most easily done by someone who can reach >into the actual repository using "mv" and the like... ;-) That's a problem, because the repository is on lyra.org, to which only Greg Stein would have telnet access. Instead, I could disable all mail delivery for xml-checkins subscribers before moving things around, so that people don't get buried in a mass of CVS messages, and then enable mail delivery again. -- A.M. Kuchling http://starship.python.net/crew/amk/ A machine is as distinctively and brilliantly and expressively human as a violin sonata or a theorem in Euclid. -- Gregory Vlastos From Fred L. Drake, Jr." References: <14231.35552.403804.460987@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> <14237.47192.803781.479900@amarok.cnri.reston.va.us> <14237.47779.965703.944976@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> <14237.47966.313734.724853@amarok.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <14237.48978.888773.991401@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> Andrew M. Kuchling writes: > That's a problem, because the repository is on lyra.org, to > which only Greg Stein would have telnet access. Instead, I could > disable all mail delivery for xml-checkins subscribers before moving > things around, so that people don't get buried in a mass of CVS > messages, and then enable mail delivery again. Ah, good idea! I wasn't advocating reaching into the CVS repo like that. it's just a lot easier (& faster) that way. ;-} Definately not the way to go about it. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. Corporation for National Research Initiatives From Mike.Olson@FourThought.com Thu Jul 29 10:07:46 1999 From: Mike.Olson@FourThought.com (Mike Olson) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 04:07:46 -0500 Subject: [XML-SIG] Python DOM Unification -- level References: <3724CC49.AAB857A5@prescod.net> <14116.55422.189139.235663@amarok.cnri.reston.va.us> <3724E2A1.62223458@prescod.net> <14117.52230.551462.836651@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <37A019E2.B334709D@FourThought.com> This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms2480E40C541356542D33EE3F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey everyone Sorry we at Fourthought have been kinda slow keeping up wth this list and 4DOM and such. We had to pick up an extra contract to pay for the python conferences ;) We're gonna have some free time in August to do some major work on 4DOM and 4XSLT, including getting 4XSLT up to date with the latest XSLT draft and breaking out the patterns into 4XPath (or some clever name). I wanted to bring up the DOM interface unification topic again as we will be working on 4DOM this month and may have time to experiment with some Lit/ python interfaces. Last we left off, we couldn't decide how many and how lit the interfaces should be. Is anyone still doing work to come up with a unified interface(s)? Is it something we still want to consider? Should we (Fourthought) just produce a lit interface as pythonic as possible and then mold/wrap pydom and 4dom to meet it? For my 2 cents worth, I guess I see a need for 2 interfaces. The one defined by W3C and a totally pythonic interface. Then a wrapper that can be used to turn a DOM compliant interface implementation into the pythonic interface. ORB/ORBless I think we decided is orthagonal to this decision. Mike "Fred L. Drake" wrote: > Paul Prescod writes: > > Shouldn't the exception objects and class constants be shared between DOM > > implementations? > > Absolutely! > > > Why do Node, NodeList and NamedNodeMap have to be top-level. Does it make > > sense for clients to construct them? > > No, but you knew that before I did. ;-) > > -Fred > > -- > Fred L. Drake, Jr. > Corporation for National Research Initiatives > > _______________________________________________ > XML-SIG maillist - XML-SIG@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/xml-sig -- ---------------- Mike Olson Consulting Member FourThought LLC http://www.fourthought.com http://opentechnology.org --------------ms2480E40C541356542D33EE3F Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIIKpgYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIKlzCCCpMCAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCC CDIwggT8MIIEZaADAgECAhBgV5Y2xbIHJpkIwhs+UflwMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAMIHMMRcw FQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UECxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29y azFGMEQGA1UECxM9d3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9yZXBvc2l0b3J5L1JQQSBJbmNvcnAuIEJ5 IFJlZi4sTElBQi5MVEQoYyk5ODFIMEYGA1UEAxM/VmVyaVNpZ24gQ2xhc3MgMSBDQSBJbmRp dmlkdWFsIFN1YnNjcmliZXItUGVyc29uYSBOb3QgVmFsaWRhdGVkMB4XDTk5MDUwNjAwMDAw MFoXDTAwMDUwNTIzNTk1OVowggEXMRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UE CxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29yazFGMEQGA1UECxM9d3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9y ZXBvc2l0b3J5L1JQQSBJbmNvcnAuIGJ5IFJlZi4sTElBQi5MVEQoYyk5ODEeMBwGA1UECxMV UGVyc29uYSBOb3QgVmFsaWRhdGVkMTMwMQYDVQQLEypEaWdpdGFsIElEIENsYXNzIDEgLSBO ZXRzY2FwZSBGdWxsIFNlcnZpY2UxEzARBgNVBAMUCk1pa2UgT2xzb24xKTAnBgkqhkiG9w0B CQEWGm1pa2Uub2xzb25AZm91cnRob3VnaHQuY29tMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4GNADCB iQKBgQCuk+Frgbi1QG7ni53t3TaFTU5IXKp/aOYYXaR/iPN9Ure9P6fAajZIDUXyR+bCIe8U Sq1kHjMNbb/ziX3/oPPeUy3Cy1sVZ/Cq2FPofSInSaLl0EB+k0aMbEBtmyVxTGByoNaPL3Lj Er/aLaIkNcPIaCzT0okEOA/pu9RU0efBaQIDAQABo4IBjzCCAYswCQYDVR0TBAIwADCBrAYD VR0gBIGkMIGhMIGeBgtghkgBhvhFAQcBATCBjjAoBggrBgEFBQcCARYcaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cu dmVyaXNpZ24uY29tL0NQUzBiBggrBgEFBQcCAjBWMBUWDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMAMCAQEa PVZlcmlTaWduJ3MgQ1BTIGluY29ycC4gYnkgcmVmZXJlbmNlIGxpYWIuIGx0ZC4gKGMpOTcg VmVyaVNpZ24wEQYJYIZIAYb4QgEBBAQDAgeAMIGGBgpghkgBhvhFAQYDBHgWdmQ0NjUyYmQ2 M2YyMDQ3MDI5Mjk4NzYzYzlkMmYyNzUwNjljNzM1OWJlZDFiMDU5ZGE3NWJjNGJjOTcwMTc0 N2RhNWQzZjIxNDFiZWFkYjJiZDJlODkyMTNhZTZhZjlkZjExNDk5OWEzYjg0NWY5ZjNlYTQ1 MGMwMwYDVR0fBCwwKjAooCagJIYiaHR0cDovL2NybC52ZXJpc2lnbi5jb20vY2xhc3MxLmNy bDANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFAAOBgQB8SeBjPc9TSSC1iwIP0gVMzQVGkcPG4I/yoMUFK1CfgW6T dvtP5z9WNcSIfQ8mIjsl/jbwnfYevfK0EiCjU5slnsOjrbIiWwRe7qYBuGqE6gnfkhMRt8l3 ZJe2AqRptWZYY8axL5nQm0iSnVEmYoZAtAnQkkldheTU4n+x9vlUHjCCAy4wggKXoAMCAQIC EQDSdi6NFAw9fbKoJV2v7g11MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAgUAMF8xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRcwFQYD VQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjE3MDUGA1UECxMuQ2xhc3MgMSBQdWJsaWMgUHJpbWFyeSBD ZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTAeFw05ODA1MTIwMDAwMDBaFw0wODA1MTIyMzU5NTla MIHMMRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UECxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3Qg TmV0d29yazFGMEQGA1UECxM9d3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9yZXBvc2l0b3J5L1JQQSBJbmNv cnAuIEJ5IFJlZi4sTElBQi5MVEQoYyk5ODFIMEYGA1UEAxM/VmVyaVNpZ24gQ2xhc3MgMSBD QSBJbmRpdmlkdWFsIFN1YnNjcmliZXItUGVyc29uYSBOb3QgVmFsaWRhdGVkMIGfMA0GCSqG SIb3DQEBAQUAA4GNADCBiQKBgQC7WkSKBBa7Vf0DeootlE8VeDa4DUqyb5xUv7zodyqdufBo u5XZMUFweoFLuUgTVi3HCOGEQqvAopKrRFyqQvCCDgLpL/vCO7u+yScKXbawNkIztW5UiE+H Sr8Z2vkV6A+HthzjzMaajn9qJJLj/OBluqexfu/J2zdqyErICQbkmQIDAQABo3wwejARBglg hkgBhvhCAQEEBAMCAQYwRwYDVR0gBEAwPjA8BgtghkgBhvhFAQcBATAtMCsGCCsGAQUFBwIB Fh93d3cudmVyaXNpZ24uY29tL3JlcG9zaXRvcnkvUlBBMA8GA1UdEwQIMAYBAf8CAQAwCwYD VR0PBAQDAgEGMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAgUAA4GBAIi4Nzvd2pQ3AK2qn+GBAXEekmptL/bxndPK ZDjcG5gMB4ZbhRVqD7lJhaSV8Rd9Z7R/LSzdmkKewz60jqrlCwbe8lYq+jPHvhnXU0zDvcjj F7WkSUJj7MKmFw9dWBpJPJBcVaNlIAD9GCDlX4KmsaiSxVhqwY0DPOvDzQWikK5uMYICPDCC AjgCAQEwgeEwgcwxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMR8wHQYDVQQLExZWZXJpU2ln biBUcnVzdCBOZXR3b3JrMUYwRAYDVQQLEz13d3cudmVyaXNpZ24uY29tL3JlcG9zaXRvcnkv UlBBIEluY29ycC4gQnkgUmVmLixMSUFCLkxURChjKTk4MUgwRgYDVQQDEz9WZXJpU2lnbiBD bGFzcyAxIENBIEluZGl2aWR1YWwgU3Vic2NyaWJlci1QZXJzb25hIE5vdCBWYWxpZGF0ZWQC EGBXljbFsgcmmQjCGz5R+XAwCQYFKw4DAhoFAKCBsTAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcN AQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw05OTA3MjkwOTA3NDZaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBSePVP7 dR9gzCulzpKiUZsSXTLrLDBSBgkqhkiG9w0BCQ8xRTBDMAoGCCqGSIb3DQMHMA4GCCqGSIb3 DQMCAgIAgDAHBgUrDgMCBzANBggqhkiG9w0DAgIBQDANBggqhkiG9w0DAgIBKDANBgkqhkiG 9w0BAQEFAASBgBe6nridNX25zEuWr0G5OjfARXPu36Nx6K/8q2yTSL1u0jJfsL5tGAZOq5Ad NrlJfSexqF/JjHyKiuTm4SRDCynGZW/I2k6kV2mtIC2I9UUXdS3knVLJQC1zG2ZeHnMnl0Lj JVvPbFmbGtT+Cf9Os0HMGIGVe8pQHJf0xBrc6cWk --------------ms2480E40C541356542D33EE3F--