From jocm.aguiar at gmail.com  Fri Nov  8 15:29:54 2019
From: jocm.aguiar at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gQWd1aWFy?=)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2019 17:29:54 -0300
Subject: [Web-SIG] Wsgiref x Form ?
Message-ID: <CAFHzx8X2bj9AbTJbcThMGX67VYOLmb7+hqLAxuhmJniB9kQ3MA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi
My name is Jo?o Carlos, I'm new to python and would like to know if there
is any function of wsgiref to retrieve form data via POST, something
similar ( request_form () or request_input () ) otherwise what would be the
best way ?
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From tkadm30 at yandex.ru  Sat Nov  9 02:02:45 2019
From: tkadm30 at yandex.ru (Jack Bortone)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 02:02:45 -0500
Subject: [Web-SIG] Wsgiref x Form ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFHzx8X2bj9AbTJbcThMGX67VYOLmb7+hqLAxuhmJniB9kQ3MA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFHzx8X2bj9AbTJbcThMGX67VYOLmb7+hqLAxuhmJniB9kQ3MA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20191109020245.61789eb3b2ceb13f65c02f80@yandex.ru>

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 17:29:54 -0300
Jo?o Aguiar <jocm.aguiar at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi
> My name is Jo?o Carlos, I'm new to python and would like to know if there
> is any function of wsgiref to retrieve form data via POST, something
> similar ( request_form () or request_input () ) otherwise what would be the
> best way ?

i use (and recommend) werkzeug for that! :-) 

but fel free to try django-hotsauce  (which is also based on werkzeug for wsgi stuff)

Sincerely,

Jack


-- 
Jack Bortone <tkadm30 at yandex.ru>

From dayunbao at gmail.com  Sun Nov 10 22:14:44 2019
From: dayunbao at gmail.com (yun bao)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 19:14:44 -0800
Subject: [Web-SIG] Research Topics for Grad School
Message-ID: <CAKQossf9VQ8ojFp0h5AKhcqdFsFw5J40vri+C0X7WqoLBUHApw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm planning to go to grad school next fall, and I'm in the process of
refining my thesis idea.  My basic idea is connected to Python running in a
web browser.  However, I'm still trying to hone in on a good research idea
that will be useful and relevant to the Python community.  So I was hoping
someone here might be able to help.

I've been reaching out to a few different communities to better understand
the current state of, and problems associated with, getting Python running
in a browser.  I spoke to someone at Mozilla, who said he thought that
pursuing WebAssembly was the best option.  He said it was very unlikely
that browser vendors would drastically modify their products to host a
dedicated Python engine. He pointed me to the Pyodide project, which has
gotten quite a few scientific Python packages running in a web browser
using the WebAssembly version of CPython. The Pyodide team compiled CPython
to WebAssembly using Emscripten.  This is pretty exciting, as most of the
solutions I'd previously seen involved translating or transpiling Python to
JavaScript (Transcrypt, Brython, PypyJS), and then executing that.  I've
reached out to the Pyodide people, but thought I would see if anyone in the
Python community was involved in this kind of work.

Any thoughts or advice that you could share would be most welcome.

Thanks,

Andrew
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From miked at dewhirst.com.au  Sun Nov 10 22:36:56 2019
From: miked at dewhirst.com.au (Mike Dewhirst)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 14:36:56 +1100
Subject: [Web-SIG] Research Topics for Grad School
In-Reply-To: <CAKQossf9VQ8ojFp0h5AKhcqdFsFw5J40vri+C0X7WqoLBUHApw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKQossf9VQ8ojFp0h5AKhcqdFsFw5J40vri+C0X7WqoLBUHApw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ef464d99-e6a6-c059-63da-525b57ce46cb@dewhirst.com.au>

On 11/11/2019 2:14 pm, yun bao wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm planning to go to grad school next fall, and I'm in the process of 
> refining my thesis idea.? My basic idea is connected to Python running 
> in a web browser.? However, I'm still trying to hone in on a good 
> research idea that will be useful and relevant to the Python 
> community.? So I was hoping someone here might be able to help.
>
> I've been reaching out to a few different communities to better 
> understand the current state of, and problems associated with, getting 
> Python running in a browser.? I spoke to someone at Mozilla, who said 
> he thought that pursuing WebAssembly was the best option.? He said it 
> was very unlikely that browser vendors would drastically modify their 
> products to host a dedicated Python engine. He pointed me to the 
> Pyodide project, which has gotten quite a few scientific Python 
> packages running in a web browser using the WebAssembly version of 
> CPython. The Pyodide team compiled CPython to?WebAssembly using 
> Emscripten.? This is pretty exciting, as most of the solutions I'd 
> previously seen involved translating or transpiling Python to 
> JavaScript (Transcrypt, Brython, PypyJS), and then executing that.? 
> I've reached out to the Pyodide people, but thought I would see if 
> anyone in the Python community was involved in this kind of work.
>
> Any thoughts or advice that you could share would be most welcome.

Here is a recent WASM talk at PyCon AU 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJMT1aImS9Q

Russ is looking for you :)

>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew
>
> _______________________________________________
> Web-SIG mailing list
> Web-SIG at python.org
> Web SIG: http://www.python.org/sigs/web-sig
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/web-sig/miked%40dewhirst.com.au

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From tkadm30 at yandex.com  Mon Nov 11 02:01:27 2019
From: tkadm30 at yandex.com (Jack Bortone)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 02:01:27 -0500
Subject: [Web-SIG] Research Topics for Grad School
In-Reply-To: <CAKQossf9VQ8ojFp0h5AKhcqdFsFw5J40vri+C0X7WqoLBUHApw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKQossf9VQ8ojFp0h5AKhcqdFsFw5J40vri+C0X7WqoLBUHApw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20191111020127.517dcb3efd43cdcdb9f193eb@yandex.com>



On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 19:14:44 -0800
yun bao <dayunbao at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm planning to go to grad school next fall, and I'm in the process of
> refining my thesis idea.  My basic idea is connected to Python running in a
> web browser.  

Hello,

would you care to define your personal perspective of 
the "web browser" mnemonic ?

Thank you in advance.

Jack
-- 
Jack Bortone <tkadm30 at yandex.ru>
isotopesoftware.ca 

From sf at fermigier.com  Mon Nov 11 03:44:57 2019
From: sf at fermigier.com (=?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9fane_Fermigier?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 09:44:57 +0100
Subject: [Web-SIG] Research Topics for Grad School
In-Reply-To: <CAKQossf9VQ8ojFp0h5AKhcqdFsFw5J40vri+C0X7WqoLBUHApw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKQossf9VQ8ojFp0h5AKhcqdFsFw5J40vri+C0X7WqoLBUHApw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABuJJj5F72mzBGZ80z6bnKbEe0Yks=MwYHNqR=+h7QV2jpJhBg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I've been using the PyIodide project for some research work (
https://github.com/abilian/olapy/tree/master/pyodide). This is great, but
in the end it's "just" CPython compiled in the browser, with some hacks
sprinkled around to make the libraries you depend upon work in the browser.

Transpiling is another approach, which has other use cases.

Both of these approaches have legitimate use cases, but I believe they both
will allow only niche applications. We need, IMHO, a new approach that
would combine the pros of both approaches (i.e.: maximise interoperability
with both the Python and HTML5 ecosystems).

I've had a short discussion on this topic on Twitter yesterday:

https://twitter.com/sfermigier/status/1193457847008403456

And at the end of the conversation, I was thinking to myself: "Wouldn't it
be great if there was some PhD work starting on this subjects?".

But I can't really recommend, without thinking about it much longer, an
appropriate detailed approach for a research project.

At least, I'm open to keeping the discussion open.

(Relevant starting points should be Russell's, ?ukasz' and Paul's talks
about the future of Python).

  S.


On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 4:15 AM yun bao <dayunbao at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm planning to go to grad school next fall, and I'm in the process of
> refining my thesis idea.  My basic idea is connected to Python running in a
> web browser.  However, I'm still trying to hone in on a good research idea
> that will be useful and relevant to the Python community.  So I was hoping
> someone here might be able to help.
>
> I've been reaching out to a few different communities to better understand
> the current state of, and problems associated with, getting Python running
> in a browser.  I spoke to someone at Mozilla, who said he thought that
> pursuing WebAssembly was the best option.  He said it was very unlikely
> that browser vendors would drastically modify their products to host a
> dedicated Python engine. He pointed me to the Pyodide project, which has
> gotten quite a few scientific Python packages running in a web browser
> using the WebAssembly version of CPython. The Pyodide team compiled CPython
> to WebAssembly using Emscripten.  This is pretty exciting, as most of the
> solutions I'd previously seen involved translating or transpiling Python to
> JavaScript (Transcrypt, Brython, PypyJS), and then executing that.  I've
> reached out to the Pyodide people, but thought I would see if anyone in the
> Python community was involved in this kind of work.
>
> Any thoughts or advice that you could share would be most welcome.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew
> _______________________________________________
> Web-SIG mailing list
> Web-SIG at python.org
> Web SIG: http://www.python.org/sigs/web-sig
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/web-sig/sf%40fermigier.com
>


-- 
Stefane Fermigier - http://fermigier.com/ - http://twitter.com/sfermigier -
http://linkedin.com/in/sfermigier
Founder & CEO, Abilian - Enterprise Social Software -
http://www.abilian.com/
Chairman, National Council for Free & Open Source Software (CNLL) -
http://cnll.fr/
Founder & Organiser, PyParis & PyData Paris - http://pyparis.org/ &
http://pydata.fr/
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From amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com  Mon Nov 11 07:20:16 2019
From: amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com (Amirouche Boubekki)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 13:20:16 +0100
Subject: [Web-SIG] Research Topics for Grad School
In-Reply-To: <CAKQossf9VQ8ojFp0h5AKhcqdFsFw5J40vri+C0X7WqoLBUHApw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKQossf9VQ8ojFp0h5AKhcqdFsFw5J40vri+C0X7WqoLBUHApw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL7_Mo8Z4ci5PJEsgS7XpOXxJ7ETwb3wq_Q2GHYnpikDFmQPvw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Yun Bao,

Le lun. 11 nov. 2019 ? 04:15, yun bao <dayunbao at gmail.com> a ?crit :
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm planning to go to grad school next fall, and I'm in the process of refining my thesis idea.

Asking for advice is the good approach.

> My basic idea is connected to Python running in a web browser.

There is several ways to go. There is something like dozens of
attempts and two or three actively maintained solutions.

Here is one:

  https://www.plynth.net

Here is a project of mine:

  https://github.com/amirouche/beyondjs

> However, I'm still trying to hone in on a good research idea

I do not think that any kind of Python in the browser effort is a
research, as in a PhD thesis kind of work.

> that will be useful and relevant to the Python community.

The Python community is vast, prolific, with diverse and sometimes
conflicting interests. There is no situations where it is possible to
please everybody. You should take a stand, pick a particular niche
where browser frontend software are useful and try to solve that
problem. My favorite frontend application is back-office applications
that are behind a login form and do not require server-side rendering.
See also, so called, universal web applications and progressive web
apps.

> I've been reaching out to a few different communities to better understand the current state of, and problems associated with, getting Python running in a browser.  I spoke to someone at Mozilla, who said he thought that pursuing WebAssembly was the best option.

I agree, but not without some kind of a Foreign Function Interface
(FFI) which is still missing in Firefox. Whereas, V8 has the thing
called anyref. See also
https://hacks.mozilla.org/2019/08/webassembly-interface-types/.

> He said it was very unlikely that browser vendors would drastically modify their products to host a dedicated Python engine.

True.

> He pointed me to the Pyodide project,

Working with Pyodide or emscripten is too difficult as of right now,
and I would not go in production with it.

> which has gotten quite a few scientific Python packages running in a web browser

What is the point of doing that?! That is what I meant by "choose a
niche". Scientific computing in the web browser, if it becomes a
thing, will be a big mistake, and a performance bottleneck for no good
reasons. People that know what they are doing are moving more things
to the backend (server side) and take advantage of computation grids.
The particular project I am thinking about is still in private beta.
It support not only scientific Python libraries and any other library
written in any programming language posgresql et al. And you can
publish the notebooks in production (for DNA and more generaly biology
research).

> using the WebAssembly version of CPython. The Pyodide team compiled CPython to WebAssembly using Emscripten.  This is pretty exciting, as most of the solutions I'd previously seen involved translating or transpiling Python to JavaScript (Transcrypt, Brython, PypyJS), and then executing that.  I've reached out to the Pyodide people, but thought I would see if anyone in the Python community was involved in this kind of work.

Brython is an interpreter. Transpiling to JavaScript works very well,
when it is done correctly. So far, I have not seen a good enough
Python to JavaScript compiler.

Like I wrote previously emscripten is a way of a hundred pains, at the
moment, it might change. But who wants more C, C++ (including a
compiler) in their Python project?

> Any thoughts or advice that you could share would be most welcome.

I think something in the spirit of Schism
(https://github.com/google/schism), a self-hosted compiler, is an
interesting idea. It is missing an interpreter and source maps. Evenif
it use anyref, it does not allow to pause / resume wasm for xhr or dom
events.

Mind the fact that, it is possible to fully compile Python "directly"
to wasm with possibly an embedded interpreter for use with `eval` with
support for asynchronous behaviors xhr, dom events and a JavaScript
foreign function interface (js ffi), it will only work where V8
JavaScript VM is used, but maybe it will convince Mozilla that anyref
is good enough.

Also see https://github.com/beeware/ouroboros


Hope this helps!

-- 
Amirouche ~ https://hyper.dev

From amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com  Mon Nov 11 11:13:20 2019
From: amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com (Amirouche Boubekki)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 17:13:20 +0100
Subject: [Web-SIG] Research Topics for Grad School
In-Reply-To: <CAL7_Mo8Z4ci5PJEsgS7XpOXxJ7ETwb3wq_Q2GHYnpikDFmQPvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKQossf9VQ8ojFp0h5AKhcqdFsFw5J40vri+C0X7WqoLBUHApw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL7_Mo8Z4ci5PJEsgS7XpOXxJ7ETwb3wq_Q2GHYnpikDFmQPvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL7_Mo_9BF1GWYFEwLgGqnn5x3P+6j_=zwD8MGtifxnW0n+Zkw@mail.gmail.com>

Le lun. 11 nov. 2019 ? 13:20, Amirouche Boubekki
<amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com> a ?crit :
>
> Hello Yun Bao,
>
> Le lun. 11 nov. 2019 ? 04:15, yun bao <dayunbao at gmail.com> a ?crit :
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm planning to go to grad school next fall, and I'm in the process of refining my thesis idea.
>
> Asking for advice is the good approach.
>
> > My basic idea is connected to Python running in a web browser.
>

Here is more experiments of Python in the browser:

cpython: https://pmp-p.github.io/python-next/test.html

micropython: https://pmp-p.github.io/micropython-next/dom-rw.html

From tkadm30 at yandex.com  Mon Nov 11 18:08:27 2019
From: tkadm30 at yandex.com (Jack Bortone)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 18:08:27 -0500
Subject: [Web-SIG] Research Topics for Grad School
In-Reply-To: <CAKQossd70Pd5v2dwGFZq_W+ojpPvm9Dg-UgonmwM8_Uv8Y8oEg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKQossf9VQ8ojFp0h5AKhcqdFsFw5J40vri+C0X7WqoLBUHApw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20191111020127.517dcb3efd43cdcdb9f193eb@yandex.com>
 <CAKQossd70Pd5v2dwGFZq_W+ojpPvm9Dg-UgonmwM8_Uv8Y8oEg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20191111180827.08b826c20fa4a9d7efe96439@yandex.com>




On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 08:37:04 -0700
yun bao <dayunbao at gmail.com> wrote:

> What I mean is being able to write rich client side (front end) code in
> Python.

Sorry but im still not following you very well. what do u mean exactly with "rich client side code" ? Are u looking to design HTTP 2 apps using python in the runtime client part of firefox/xul browser ? 

Kind Regards,

Jack

> 
> On Sun, Nov 10, 2019, 11:01 PM Jack Bortone <tkadm30 at yandex.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 19:14:44 -0800
> > yun bao <dayunbao at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm planning to go to grad school next fall, and I'm in the process of
> > > refining my thesis idea.  My basic idea is connected to Python running
> > in a
> > > web browser.
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > would you care to define your personal perspective of
> > the "web browser" mnemonic ?
> >
> > Thank you in advance.
> >
> > Jack
> > --
> > Jack Bortone <tkadm30 at yandex.ru>
> > isotopesoftware.ca
> >


-- 
Jack Bortone <tkadm30 at yandex.ru>

From sf at fermigier.com  Tue Nov 12 01:13:14 2019
From: sf at fermigier.com (=?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9fane_Fermigier?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 07:13:14 +0100
Subject: [Web-SIG] Research Topics for Grad School
In-Reply-To: <20191111180827.08b826c20fa4a9d7efe96439@yandex.com>
References: <CAKQossf9VQ8ojFp0h5AKhcqdFsFw5J40vri+C0X7WqoLBUHApw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20191111020127.517dcb3efd43cdcdb9f193eb@yandex.com>
 <CAKQossd70Pd5v2dwGFZq_W+ojpPvm9Dg-UgonmwM8_Uv8Y8oEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20191111180827.08b826c20fa4a9d7efe96439@yandex.com>
Message-ID: <CABuJJj7Mo9XJ0qFiKcDuoc=2Gd-r_=JZnMypZ78kzSUF88ZjOw@mail.gmail.com>

I cant' answer for Yun Bao, but for me it means: being able to develop SPAs
or PWAs in Python.

  S.

On Tue, Nov 12, 2019, 00:15 Jack Bortone <tkadm30 at yandex.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 08:37:04 -0700
> yun bao <dayunbao at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > What I mean is being able to write rich client side (front end) code in
> > Python.
>
> Sorry but im still not following you very well. what do u mean exactly
> with "rich client side code" ? Are u looking to design HTTP 2 apps using
> python in the runtime client part of firefox/xul browser ?
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Jack
>
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 10, 2019, 11:01 PM Jack Bortone <tkadm30 at yandex.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 19:14:44 -0800
> > > yun bao <dayunbao at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I'm planning to go to grad school next fall, and I'm in the process
> of
> > > > refining my thesis idea.  My basic idea is connected to Python
> running
> > > in a
> > > > web browser.
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > would you care to define your personal perspective of
> > > the "web browser" mnemonic ?
> > >
> > > Thank you in advance.
> > >
> > > Jack
> > > --
> > > Jack Bortone <tkadm30 at yandex.ru>
> > > isotopesoftware.ca
> > >
>
>
> --
> Jack Bortone <tkadm30 at yandex.ru>
> _______________________________________________
> Web-SIG mailing list
> Web-SIG at python.org
> Web SIG: http://www.python.org/sigs/web-sig
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/web-sig/sf%40fermigier.com
>
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