From Thanks4asking@alliedmarketing.net Sat Apr 13 03:10:09 2002 From: Thanks4asking@alliedmarketing.net (Thanks4asking@alliedmarketing.net) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:10:09 -0400 Subject: [Types-sig] Webmaster Information Message-ID: <4D4508F8-4E5A-11D6-8F4E-00500471CA25@HRVj1WnP> ------=_NextPart_000_00P6_57S68V9X.Y3811B11 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PEhUTUw+DQo8SEVBRD4NCiAgPFRJVExFPlRoYW5rcy00LUFza2luZzwvVElUTEU+DQogIDxMSU5L IHJlbD0ic3R5bGVzaGVldCIgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL2NvZ25pZ2VuLm5ldC9jb3Jwb3JhdGUvY29n bmlnZW4uY3NzIj4NCjwvSEVBRD4NCjxCT0RZIEJHQ09MT1I9IiNmZmZmZmYiPg0KPENFTlRFUj4N CiAgPFRBQkxFIENFTExTUEFDSU5HPSIwIiBDRUxMUEFERElORz0iMCIgQUxJR049IkNlbnRlciJ3 aWR0aD01MDA+DQogICAgPFRSPg0KICAgICAgPFREPjxUQUJMRSBDRUxMU1BBQ0lORz0iMCIgQ0VM TFBBRERJTkc9IjAiPg0KCSAgPFRSPg0KCSAgICA8VEQgYmdjb2xvcj0jMDAwMDAwPjxQIEFMSUdO PUNlbnRlcj4NCgkgICAgICA8SU1HIFNSQz0icGljdDQ1LmpwZyIgQUxJR049IkJvdHRvbSIgQUxU 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A number of modern IDEs/editors provide context sensitive help (eg. MS IntelliSense) while you are typing - i.e. suggesting fields/methods that are appropriate to the object/class you are working with at the time. This behaviour is dependant on the editor being able to parse the (possibly incomplete) code and derive type information. Adding static typing to python will enable smart editors to take advantage of this. Regards, Richard From sdeibel@wingide.com Sun Apr 14 00:46:49 2002 From: sdeibel@wingide.com (Stephan R.A. Deibel) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:46:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Types-sig] Re: Static typing & IDEs In-Reply-To: <20020413160003.12084.46105.Mailman@mail.python.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Apr 2002 Richard Davies wrote: > I realise that this groups is pretty dormant at the moment, but I > wondered if the following was another argument for adding static > typing separate from those already mentioned. A number of modern > IDEs/editors provide context sensitive help (eg. MS IntelliSense) > while you are typing - i.e. suggesting fields/methods that are > appropriate to the object/class you are working with at the time. This > behaviour is dependant on the editor being able to parse the (possibly > incomplete) code and derive type information. Adding static typing to > python will enable smart editors to take advantage of this. When we first starting writing Wing IDE in 1999 I was a proponent of adding optional typing to Python for this reason. We found, however, that the information you need for features like auto-completion, call tips, context help, etc, can be derived from Python as it is. We're pretty sure this extends to things like refactoring tools as well, although we haven't written these yet. In extracting data types for values, you're not dealing with definate knowledge of the data type, but probable type as infered from instance creations, through assignments, function invocations, etc. I.e., you sort of assume usage is correct, which indeed it is 99.9% of the time (at least in my experience with using Python). Sometimes a value can have multiple possible types, but this is quite rare in practice so reasonable autocompletion, call tips, etc can still be presented. I won't deny that static typing would make writing the IDE a *lot* easier, and would make the inference process much less compute intensive. But it's not a requirement for these types of features, as far as we have seen up to now. BTW, after 3 years working intensively with Python, I now believe lack of data typing is one of Python's big strengths, as far as boosting productivity and simplifying the development and maintenance processes. - Stephan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Wing IDE for Python Archaeopteryx Software, Inc www.wingide.com Take Flight!