with code CSS formatting for example then you will need some kind of code parser. The most likely case would be JavaScript code in the header section. There are JavaScript parsers available but it does make things ,much more complex. > I think I can either focus on getting the text from the source in a higher > quality format, so that the sentences are already connected and not broken, > or I have to find an efficient way to automatically join broken sentences > but nothing else. As with everything in programming you need to very specifically define what all those things mean. What is a "higher quality format"? How do you define a "sentence" - its not something that HTML knows about to an HTML parser won't help. You can get the raw text out of the tag, but its up to you to mess with sentences. The usual definition relies on punctuation marks to terminate a sentence (.!?) You then split the text on the punctuation marks. > I thought I could get better quality text by using Beautiful Soup, but I > just tried the .get_text() method and I was surprised to find that the > sentences are still broken by newlines. Maybe there are newlines even in > the HTML, or maybe there were HTML tags embedding links in the text, and > Beautiful Soup adds newlines when it extracts text. Beautiful Soup just extracts the HTML content. If the HTML text has newlines BS will give you those newlines. They are part of the source text. > Or if this is inevitable, what is an effective way to join broken sentences > automatically but nothing else? I think I?ll need AI for this. You definitely should not need AI this is the kind of stuff programmers have been doing since the dawn of programming. Fundamental text manipulation, you just need to decide what your definitions are and then split the text accordingly. You should get most of the way just using the standard string split() method. Possibly applying it more than once per text block. You may also want to join the lines together into one long string before extracting sentences, something like: listOfLines = BS.get_text() lines = [line.strip() for line in listOfLines] #strip removes \n text_block = ' '.join(lines) # add spaces so words don't run together sentences = text_block.split(sentence_markers) That may not work perfectly but its a starter. -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com Fri Oct 22 14:01:47 2021 From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 14:01:47 -0400 Subject: [Tutor] Print elements of list with newlines References: Message-ID: <5eu5ng9m7161j2o048nb8ic5fuaiqbmr8c@4ax.com> On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 16:58:21 +0200, Julius Hamilton declaimed the following: >Hey, > >Is there any way to print the elements of a list one by one on new lines, >in a brief single line of code, as opposed to: > >for item in list: > print(item) > Suspect you won't like it (since you specified "single line") print("\n".join([str(itm) for itm in lst])) List comprehension (hmmm, generator expression might work as well), taking each item from the list, forcing the item into a STRING format, then join the items with a new-line between each. >>> lst = [ 1, 3.14159, ... "a string", ("a", "tuple") ] >>> print("\n".join([str(itm) for itm in lst])) 1 3.14159 a string ('a', 'tuple') >>> >>> print("\n".join((str(itm) for itm in lst))) 1 3.14159 a string ('a', 'tuple') >>> Generator expression works too, and may avoid creating the intermediate list. -- Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN wlfraed at ix.netcom.com http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/ From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com Fri Oct 22 14:32:09 2021 From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 14:32:09 -0400 Subject: [Tutor] Get lines of web page properly segmented References: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 18:06:24 +0200, Julius Hamilton declaimed the following: > >I thought I could get better quality text by using Beautiful Soup, but I >just tried the .get_text() method and I was surprised to find that the >sentences are still broken by newlines. Maybe there are newlines even in >the HTML, or maybe there were HTML tags embedding links in the text, and >Beautiful Soup adds newlines when it extracts text. > You'll have to examine the raw HTML to determine what structure is in use... By definition, plain "new lines" in HTML are only for the use of the editor, they are not something rendered when viewing the page. If someone coded, say

This is some text
broken up by hard coded
breaks

I suspect anything that tries to extract "text" is going to have line breaks at the
locations. Even worse would be...

This is some text

broken up by hard coded

paragraph tags

Something like

This is some text broken up by simple new-lines

will be rendered by a browser as one line, only wrapping if the browser window is narrower than the line. (Though the example at https://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/bs4/doc/ seems to be putting out a new line for each anchor tag -- which is not something I'd expect!) {and this is assuming /simple/ HTML -- not something where every tag references some CSS tag which may be coming from another file} You'll have to provide example raw HTML for review (provide the HTML AND what you expect to extract from it -- so a sample with more than one of your "segments". Ideally your "segments" will have

or other block delimiters which you can parse.) Some late comments: I would NOT use .get_text() on the whole HTML. I'd try to iterate on the contents of the HTML looking for specific tags (and classes of tags, if such are used). Then extract the contents of just those tags for processing. -- Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN wlfraed at ix.netcom.com http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/ From cs at cskk.id.au Fri Oct 22 19:03:12 2021 From: cs at cskk.id.au (Cameron Simpson) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 10:03:12 +1100 Subject: [Tutor] Print elements of list with newlines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 22Oct2021 16:58, Julius Hamilton wrote: >Is there any way to print the elements of a list one by one on new >lines, in a brief single line of code, as opposed to: > >for item in list: > print(item) Well, there's: for item in list: print(item) A better question might be: why do you want to? Cheers, Cameron Simpson From juliushamilton100 at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 07:40:39 2021 From: juliushamilton100 at gmail.com (Julius Hamilton) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 13:40:39 +0200 Subject: [Tutor] Simple curses application Message-ID: Hey, Here?s my attempt at some pseudocode, with a few questions about it: import curses import json # load previous application data data = open(?dr.dat?).json() # ? # Data is a list of dictionaries. Each text name is a key. The value is three more dictionaries. The first is the text. The second is {index: } - the location in the text where the reader left off. The second is {comments: ??} - a text file. So, data = [{?TheBible?: [{text: ?text of bible?}, {index: 0}, {comments: ??}]}] You can launch the app with or without a command line argument - a filename - which imports a new text into the data. The index starts at 0 for new texts. $ dr newtext textname = $1 if textname != ??: data.add({textname: [{text: open(textname).read()}, {index: 0}, {comments: ??}]}]. else: # show a menu of imported texts with curses. The user can navigate up and down with Vim keys: j and k, and choose one with ?enter?. What?s a good way to do that with curses? Or a different library? scr = curses.initscr() # ? Assuming they select one: text = data[selection[text]] index = data[selection[index]] comments = data[selection[comments]] lines = text.splitlines() scr.addstr(line[index]) curses.refresh() # How do I listen for user key presses ?l? and ?h?, left and right after Vim? l puts the index up one and refreshes the screen, h the index down one. c allows a the user to type into a text box on screen, beneath the line. When they press enter, it?s appended as a new line to the ?comments? file. q rewrites the data to the data file and closes the curses viewer. Could anyone please correct my code and fill in these blank details? I?d really appreciate it. Thanks very much, Julius From alan.gauld at yahoo.co.uk Mon Oct 25 13:37:19 2021 From: alan.gauld at yahoo.co.uk (Alan Gauld) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 18:37:19 +0100 Subject: [Tutor] Simple curses application In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 25/10/2021 12:40, Julius Hamilton wrote: > else: > > # show a menu of imported texts with curses. The user can navigate up and > down with Vim keys: j and k, and choose one with ?enter?. What?s a good way > to do that with curses? Or a different library? > > scr = curses.initscr() You should use the curses.wrapper() function for most curses programs, it catches a lot of common problems and will save your sanity. You only need to call initscr() if you are doing saome unusual initialisation or low level control stuff. The format is: def main(screen): # all your curses code here curses.wrapper(main) The wrapper then calls your main function passing it a reference to the main screen window. It will catch any exit conditions and tidy up the terminal for you. > Assuming they select one: > > text = data[selection[text]] > index = data[selection[index]] > comments = data[selection[comments]] > > lines = text.splitlines() > > > scr.addstr(line[index]) > curses.refresh() > > # How do I listen for user key presses Use the getch() function. Note that it returns an int so you need to compare the value to ord('h') etc. But note that curses does not provide any kind of mainloop capability you need to write tat yourself. Something like: while True: key = curses.getch() if key in [ ord('q'), ord('Q')]: # q/Q to exit break elif key == ord('h'): # do the h thing elif key == ord('j'): # do the j thing etc... You may find my book on curses useful, it's an Amazon Kindle ebook and I priced it as low as I could while avoiding having to pay Amazon for copies sold! Programming curses in Python You can also get it in paperback if you prefer. Finally, here is the minimal wrapper example from the book: import curses as cur def main(win): win.addstr(4,4,"Hello world") win.refresh() win.getch() cur.wrapper(main) That just displays the message and waits for the user to hit any key to exit. -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos From alexkleider at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 17:03:57 2021 From: alexkleider at gmail.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 14:03:57 -0700 Subject: [Tutor] Simple curses application In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 10:10 AM Julius Hamilton < juliushamilton100 at gmail.com> wrote: > > # show a menu of imported texts with curses. The user can navigate up and > down with Vim keys: j and k, and choose one with ?enter?. What?s a good way > to do that with curses? Or a different library? > You may well have already gotten as much as you need/want from Alan's answer... I gather that you already have a functioning program that runs with command line arguments and your wish is to have it driven by a curses interface. I have been dealing with the same scenario lately- creating a front end curses interface to a command line driven code base. Would be happy to share/collaborate if you should have any interest in doing so. (I assume doing so off list would be the most appropriate.) Alex Kleider _______________________________________________ > Tutor maillist - Tutor at python.org > To unsubscribe or change subscription options: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > From edwinconnell at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 20:08:40 2021 From: edwinconnell at gmail.com (Ed Connell) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 19:08:40 -0500 Subject: [Tutor] tkinter listbox function Message-ID: Hi again, HELP!!! I really, really, really want to know how to implement this function using a Tkinter Lisbox. def pickFromListTK( listOfChoices ): --- some code using a Listbo: --- return choice The nonGUI version is simple, but I can't figure out the GUI version. Thank you so much. -- I have a right and a left brain, but there is nothing right in the left one and there is nothing left in the right one! From alan.gauld at yahoo.co.uk Tue Oct 26 05:42:42 2021 From: alan.gauld at yahoo.co.uk (Alan Gauld) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:42:42 +0100 Subject: [Tutor] tkinter listbox function In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 26/10/2021 01:08, Ed Connell wrote: > Hi again, > > HELP!!! > > I really, really, really want to know how to implement this function using > a Tkinter Lisbox. > > def pickFromListTK( listOfChoices ): > > --- > > some code using a Listbo: > > --- > > return choice It is not at all clear what you want the function to do. Can you describe what the user would do to activate this function and what the result would be? If you just want the index of the selected item(or items since there could be more than one) within the list then the Listbox has a method for that, you don't need to write a function. eg: class MyGUI(Frame): def __init__(self,parent): .... # build GUI self.myListbox = tkinter.Listbox(....) ... tkinter.Button(self, text="OK", command=self.handle_OK_button) ... def handle_OK_Button(self): selected = self.myListbox.curselection() for index in selected: item = self.myListbox.get(index) ... # process item here. But unless you explain more about what the function is supposed to do we can't really help. It may seem obvious to you but it isn't to us! HTH -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos From manpritsinghece at gmail.com Wed Oct 27 21:09:19 2021 From: manpritsinghece at gmail.com (Manprit Singh) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2021 06:39:19 +0530 Subject: [Tutor] Using formatted string Message-ID: Dear Sir, Suppose i have to print a number using f string , with the only feature required that it should start with a + sign if it a positive number or a - sign if it is a negative number, the number can be an integer or a floating point number, Doing it in this way as shown in the examples below done by me is ok ? >>> a = -3.659 >>> b= -4 >>> c = 5 >>> d = 5.6 >>> f'{a:+}' '-3.659' >>> f'{b:+}' '-4' >>> f'{c:+}' '+5' >>> f'{d:+}' '+5.6' >>> In the above examples, I have not written type characters (for example f for float and d for int) after : . Need your comments. Regards Manprit Singh From juliushamilton100 at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 11:45:35 2021 From: juliushamilton100 at gmail.com (Julius Hamilton) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2021 17:45:35 +0200 Subject: [Tutor] Pass options in one line (Selenium) Message-ID: Hey, Would anyone know how to do the following in fewer lines? from selenium import webdriver from selenium.webdriver.firefox.options import Options options = Options() options.headless = True driver = webdriver.Firefox(options = options) Basically, I?d like to do this: driver = webdriver.Firefox(options = Options().headless = True) But the only issue is trying to instantiate a class, then modify a property, and passing that as the argument to something else, all at once. Maybe Options(self.headless = True)? Thanks very much, Julius From alan.gauld at yahoo.co.uk Thu Oct 28 19:44:14 2021 From: alan.gauld at yahoo.co.uk (Alan Gauld) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2021 00:44:14 +0100 Subject: [Tutor] Pass options in one line (Selenium) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 28/10/2021 16:45, Julius Hamilton wrote: > Hey, > > Would anyone know how to do the following in fewer lines? > > from selenium import webdriver > from selenium.webdriver.firefox.options import Options > > options = Options() You could omit the import since you only use Options once. So it becomes options = selenium.webdriver.firefox.options.Options() > options.headless = True > driver = webdriver.Firefox(options = options) > > Basically, I?d like to do this: > > driver = webdriver.Firefox(options = Options().headless = True) But you can't because you can't do an assignment inside a function call. And you can't pass a Boolean conditional value to the Firefox initializer for options. So you need to create the options object, set its values and pass it in, just as you are doing. > But the only issue is trying to instantiate a class, then modify a > property, and passing that as the argument to something else, all at once. Why do you want to? There are no prizes for writing difficult to debug code. And hiding the options object makes it impossible for you to access it and find out its settings. Why would you want to do that? There are no prizes for writing the shortest code. Write clear and easy to understand code and your maintainers (who may be you in 6 months) will thank you for it. > Maybe Options(self.headless = True)? You can only pass the parameters that are defined for the function The option.__init__() does not have a parameter called self.headless. Now, if you really, really want to do this you can, using a class. But it adds more lines not less. You can define your own options class derived from the selenium one and provide a headless parameter. class HeadlessOptions(Options): def __init__(self, headless=True, *args, **kwargs): Options.__init__(self, *args,**args) self.headless = headless Now you can create Firefox with driver = webdriver.Firefox(options = HeadlessOptions()) But while saving the Options creation and assignment you now have a class definition... Which version is easier to maintain I'll leave as a moot point. Personally I'd go for the original unless you have a lot of similar programs to write in which case stick your class in a module so you can reuse it... -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos From Jose at joserivera.ca Fri Oct 29 17:38:16 2021 From: Jose at joserivera.ca (Jose Rivera) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2021 21:38:16 +0000 Subject: [Tutor] PYTHON INSTALLATION PROBLEM Message-ID: <77E96EB7-7F22-4689-AEFF-C640CC15305B@joserivera.ca> Hello, I just downloaded the latest version of python to my Mac book but when I click on the python launcher on my dock is not opening. Have I done something wrong along the process of the installation? Please help. I am a new user and don?t know if I have done the installing properly. Thank you very much [cid:27A2F04F-F440-4399-BA72-4FB60E21A292] [cid:C128ED66-0362-4668-9393-1D0480998F05] Sincerely, Jose From alan.gauld at yahoo.co.uk Fri Oct 29 19:39:50 2021 From: alan.gauld at yahoo.co.uk (Alan Gauld) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 00:39:50 +0100 Subject: [Tutor] PYTHON INSTALLATION PROBLEM In-Reply-To: <77E96EB7-7F22-4689-AEFF-C640CC15305B@joserivera.ca> References: <77E96EB7-7F22-4689-AEFF-C640CC15305B@joserivera.ca> Message-ID: On 29/10/2021 22:38, Jose Rivera wrote: > Hello, > > I just downloaded the latest version of python to my Mac book but > when I click on the python launcher on my dock is not opening. I'm not a Mac user so don;t know for sure what the installer does. However, Python is normally a command-line interpreter without a GUI. Try opening your terminal application and typing python. You should see something fairly similar to: Python 3.8.10 (default, Sep 28 2021, 16:10:42) [GCC 9.3.0] on linux Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information. >>> If the version corresponds to the one you installed then everything is probably as it should be. If not copy 'n paste the command and error message into a mail and hopefully one of our mac users can help. -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos From Richard at Damon-Family.org Fri Oct 29 19:51:26 2021 From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2021 19:51:26 -0400 Subject: [Tutor] PYTHON INSTALLATION PROBLEM In-Reply-To: <77E96EB7-7F22-4689-AEFF-C640CC15305B@joserivera.ca> References: <77E96EB7-7F22-4689-AEFF-C640CC15305B@joserivera.ca> Message-ID: <8a1a66b6-5630-0dd4-debe-a460f039c7cb@Damon-Family.org> On 10/29/21 5:38 PM, Jose Rivera wrote: > Hello, > > I just downloaded the latest version of python to my Mac book but when I click on the python launcher on my dock is not opening. Have I done something wrong along the process of the installation? Please help. I am a new user and don?t know if I have done the installing properly. Thank you very much > On the Mac, 'Python Launcher' seems to just configure how python will run programs run under python. Generally from the Dock, you will want to click on the 'IDLE' icon, which launches the Python IDE, which gives and editor to write python programs or load a python script. The other way to run python is from the command line, using a command like python3 myprog.py -- Richard Damon From cs at cskk.id.au Fri Oct 29 20:08:55 2021 From: cs at cskk.id.au (Cameron Simpson) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 11:08:55 +1100 Subject: [Tutor] PYTHON INSTALLATION PROBLEM In-Reply-To: <8a1a66b6-5630-0dd4-debe-a460f039c7cb@Damon-Family.org> References: <8a1a66b6-5630-0dd4-debe-a460f039c7cb@Damon-Family.org> Message-ID: On 29Oct2021 19:51, Richard Damon wrote: >On the Mac, 'Python Launcher' seems to just configure how python will >run programs run under python. Generally from the Dock, you will want >to click on the 'IDLE' icon, which launches the Python IDE, which gives >and editor to write python programs or load a python script. > >The other way to run python is from the command line, using a command >like python3 myprog.py Also, Macs ship with Python. If your MacOS is current, the supplied Python should be pretty modern. Cheers, Cameron Simpson From Richard at Damon-Family.org Fri Oct 29 22:59:22 2021 From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2021 22:59:22 -0400 Subject: [Tutor] PYTHON INSTALLATION PROBLEM In-Reply-To: References: <8a1a66b6-5630-0dd4-debe-a460f039c7cb@Damon-Family.org> Message-ID: <471537b1-d428-b8b7-9bab-b73c91ef416a@Damon-Family.org> On 10/29/21 8:08 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote: > On 29Oct2021 19:51, Richard Damon wrote: >> On the Mac, 'Python Launcher' seems to just configure how python will >> run programs run under python. Generally from the Dock, you will want >> to click on the 'IDLE' icon, which launches the Python IDE, which gives >> and editor to write python programs or load a python script. >> >> The other way to run python is from the command line, using a command >> like python3 myprog.py > Also, Macs ship with Python. If your MacOS is current, the supplied > Python should be pretty modern. > > Cheers, > Cameron Simpson You might think that, but my Mac, running the latest version of OS-X, Monterey, reports for a "python --version"? that the system default python is still 2.7.10 Now, this system is a 2019 Year model, but was built as a upgrade to an older system. so that might be a reason. Since I have been manually installing current Pythons, I don't know if they also have provided a python3 command with something more recent. -- Richard Damon From cs at cskk.id.au Sat Oct 30 01:45:00 2021 From: cs at cskk.id.au (Cameron Simpson) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 16:45:00 +1100 Subject: [Tutor] PYTHON INSTALLATION PROBLEM In-Reply-To: <471537b1-d428-b8b7-9bab-b73c91ef416a@Damon-Family.org> References: <471537b1-d428-b8b7-9bab-b73c91ef416a@Damon-Family.org> Message-ID: On 29Oct2021 22:59, Richard Damon wrote: >On 10/29/21 8:08 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote: >>Also, Macs ship with Python. If your MacOS is current, the supplied >>Python should be pretty modern. > >You might think that, but my Mac, running the latest version of OS-X, >Monterey, reports for a "python --version"? that the system default >python is still 2.7.10 I've got a similar Mac, running Catalina: % /usr/bin/python2 --version Python 2.7.16 % /usr/bin/python3 --version Python 3.8.2 "python" is Python 2 here. Probably to support scripts in the vendor distribution which use /usr/bin/python and still expect python 2. That transition is a laborious QA process for any vendor. But It's got an ok python3. >Since I have been manually installing current Pythons, I don't know if >they also have provided a python3 command with something more recent. Cheers, Cameron Simpson From ananda.murthy1 at gmail.com Fri Oct 29 21:25:44 2021 From: ananda.murthy1 at gmail.com (Ananda Murthy) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2021 21:25:44 -0400 Subject: [Tutor] PYTHON INSTALLATION PROBLEM In-Reply-To: <77E96EB7-7F22-4689-AEFF-C640CC15305B@joserivera.ca> References: <77E96EB7-7F22-4689-AEFF-C640CC15305B@joserivera.ca> Message-ID: You need to go to the app installer... ANANDA K. MURTHY On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 7:35 PM Jose Rivera wrote: > Hello, > > I just downloaded the latest version of python to my Mac book but when I > click on the python launcher on my dock is not opening. Have I done > something wrong along the process of the installation? Please help. I am a > new user and don?t know if I have done the installing properly. Thank you > very much > > [cid:27A2F04F-F440-4399-BA72-4FB60E21A292] > > [cid:C128ED66-0362-4668-9393-1D0480998F05] > > Sincerely, > > Jose > _______________________________________________ > Tutor maillist - Tutor at python.org > To unsubscribe or change subscription options: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > From bryan.m.obrien at gmail.com Fri Oct 29 23:31:08 2021 From: bryan.m.obrien at gmail.com (Bryan O'Brien) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2021 22:31:08 -0500 Subject: [Tutor] PYTHON INSTALLATION PROBLEM Message-ID: ?Likely, you have multiple Python executables on your system. This will necessitate modifying your PATH. In terminal, run: which -a python If multiple python versions exist (this is normal with MacOS), just ensure that the python you want to use is listed first in your path. grep -i path ~/.zshrc HTH > On Oct 29, 2021, at 22:00, Richard Damon wrote: > > ?On 10/29/21 8:08 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote: >>> On 29Oct2021 19:51, Richard Damon wrote: >>> On the Mac, 'Python Launcher' seems to just configure how python will >>> run programs run under python. Generally from the Dock, you will want >>> to click on the 'IDLE' icon, which launches the Python IDE, which gives >>> and editor to write python programs or load a python script. >>> The other way to run python is from the command line, using a command >>> like python3 myprog.py >> Also, Macs ship with Python. If your MacOS is current, the supplied >> Python should be pretty modern. >> Cheers, >> Cameron Simpson > > You might think that, but my Mac, running the latest version of OS-X, Monterey, reports for a "python --version" that the system default python is still 2.7.10 > > Now, this system is a 2019 Year model, but was built as a upgrade to an older system. so that might be a reason. > > Since I have been manually installing current Pythons, I don't know if they also have provided a python3 command with something more recent. > > -- > Richard Damon > > _______________________________________________ > Tutor maillist - Tutor at python.org > To unsubscribe or change subscription options: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor From Richard at Damon-Family.org Sat Oct 30 06:52:58 2021 From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 06:52:58 -0400 Subject: [Tutor] PYTHON INSTALLATION PROBLEM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <282ca79a-0b45-2444-0128-b925a7141ab5@Damon-Family.org> Actually, it says I only have 1 'python', but multiple 'python3' /usr/bin/python symlinks to a version 2.7 off in /System/Library/Frameworks/ All the versions 3.x only appear as python3 or python3.x It could well be that they haven't fully removed python2.7 dependencies from the system (or maybe better, haven't validated that they have) so python means python2 for backwards compatibility. On 10/29/21 11:31 PM, Bryan O'Brien wrote: > ?Likely, you have multiple Python executables on your system. > This will necessitate modifying your PATH. > > In terminal, run: > > which -a python > > If multiple python versions exist (this is normal with MacOS), just ensure that the python you want to use is listed first in your path. > > grep -i path ~/.zshrc > > HTH > >> On Oct 29, 2021, at 22:00, Richard Damon wrote: >> >> ?On 10/29/21 8:08 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote: >>>> On 29Oct2021 19:51, Richard Damon wrote: >>>> On the Mac, 'Python Launcher' seems to just configure how python will >>>> run programs run under python. Generally from the Dock, you will want >>>> to click on the 'IDLE' icon, which launches the Python IDE, which gives >>>> and editor to write python programs or load a python script. >>>> The other way to run python is from the command line, using a command >>>> like python3 myprog.py >>> Also, Macs ship with Python. If your MacOS is current, the supplied >>> Python should be pretty modern. >>> Cheers, >>> Cameron Simpson >> You might think that, but my Mac, running the latest version of OS-X, Monterey, reports for a "python --version" that the system default python is still 2.7.10 >> >> Now, this system is a 2019 Year model, but was built as a upgrade to an older system. so that might be a reason. >> >> Since I have been manually installing current Pythons, I don't know if they also have provided a python3 command with something more recent. >> >> -- >> Richard Damon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tutor maillist - Tutor at python.org >> To unsubscribe or change subscription options: >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > _______________________________________________ > Tutor maillist - Tutor at python.org > To unsubscribe or change subscription options: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor -- Richard Damon From bryan.m.obrien at gmail.com Sat Oct 30 07:10:24 2021 From: bryan.m.obrien at gmail.com (Bryan O'Brien) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 06:10:24 -0500 Subject: [Tutor] PYTHON INSTALLATION PROBLEM In-Reply-To: <282ca79a-0b45-2444-0128-b925a7141ab5@Damon-Family.org> References: <282ca79a-0b45-2444-0128-b925a7141ab5@Damon-Family.org> Message-ID: <2EA2B90D-7EF1-48D5-AD8C-E6128F67D290@gmail.com> So /usr/bin precedes your other python installations. This is expected. Don't modify /usr/bin/python. The operating system might depend on its existence. Rather, pick one of the paths containing python3, and modify your ~/.zshrc - placing this python3 location before /usr/bin. You'll have to restart the terminal (or source ~/.zshrc) for the path changes to take effect. FWIW, I've found (on GitHub) the program known as "pyenv" to be invaluable - from a personal perspective. Might be more than what you need/want, but an excellent python management/installer IMHO. > On Oct 30, 2021, at 05:54, Richard Damon wrote: > > ?Actually, it says I only have 1 'python', but multiple 'python3' > /usr/bin/python symlinks to a version 2.7 off in /System/Library/Frameworks/ > > All the versions 3.x only appear as python3 or python3.x > > It could well be that they haven't fully removed python2.7 dependencies from the system (or maybe better, haven't validated that they have) so python means python2 for backwards compatibility. > > >> On 10/29/21 11:31 PM, Bryan O'Brien wrote: >> ?Likely, you have multiple Python executables on your system. >> This will necessitate modifying your PATH. >> >> In terminal, run: >> >> which -a python >> >> If multiple python versions exist (this is normal with MacOS), just ensure that the python you want to use is listed first in your path. >> >> grep -i path ~/.zshrc >> >> HTH >> >>>> On Oct 29, 2021, at 22:00, Richard Damon wrote: >>> >>> ?On 10/29/21 8:08 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote: >>>>> On 29Oct2021 19:51, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>> On the Mac, 'Python Launcher' seems to just configure how python will >>>>> run programs run under python. Generally from the Dock, you will want >>>>> to click on the 'IDLE' icon, which launches the Python IDE, which gives >>>>> and editor to write python programs or load a python script. >>>>> The other way to run python is from the command line, using a command >>>>> like python3 myprog.py >>>> Also, Macs ship with Python. If your MacOS is current, the supplied >>>> Python should be pretty modern. >>>> Cheers, >>>> Cameron Simpson >>> You might think that, but my Mac, running the latest version of OS-X, Monterey, reports for a "python --version" that the system default python is still 2.7.10 >>> >>> Now, this system is a 2019 Year model, but was built as a upgrade to an older system. so that might be a reason. >>> >>> Since I have been manually installing current Pythons, I don't know if they also have provided a python3 command with something more recent. >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Damon >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tutor maillist - Tutor at python.org >>> To unsubscribe or change subscription options: >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor >> _______________________________________________ >> Tutor maillist - Tutor at python.org >> To unsubscribe or change subscription options: >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > > > -- > Richard Damon > > _______________________________________________ > Tutor maillist - Tutor at python.org > To unsubscribe or change subscription options: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor From kaushalshriyan at gmail.com Sat Oct 30 09:03:46 2021 From: kaushalshriyan at gmail.com (Kaushal Shriyan) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 18:33:46 +0530 Subject: [Tutor] New to Python Programming Language. Message-ID: Hi All, I am new to Python programming language without any programming experience. Please guide and suggest me to start learning it. I am very much eager to learn and will dedicate every day to understand it. I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks in advance. Best regards, Kaushal From Richard at Damon-Family.org Sat Oct 30 09:14:14 2021 From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 09:14:14 -0400 Subject: [Tutor] PYTHON INSTALLATION PROBLEM In-Reply-To: <2EA2B90D-7EF1-48D5-AD8C-E6128F67D290@gmail.com> References: <282ca79a-0b45-2444-0128-b925a7141ab5@Damon-Family.org> <2EA2B90D-7EF1-48D5-AD8C-E6128F67D290@gmail.com> Message-ID: <441e90ee-6fc5-7a30-8f7e-796d4eeac56f@Damon-Family.org> I think you are misunderstanding. 'python' only exists in one place, so the path ordering doesn't matter, unless I create new symlinks with the name python as an alias for python3.x. This might break some system scripts that depend on python 2.7, so I just live with using the command python3 to run python3 scripts. The path does need to be kept up to date so the 'right' python 3.x is the python3 command, as each directory gives its executable a name like python3.10 and adds a python3 symlink to point to it (which allows me to use older versions when I need to). The OP wasn't using the command line to try to run python, but was clicking on the app in the task bar under the apps folder. When doing that, why you probably really want is IDLE, not just the plain python interpreter. On 10/30/21 7:10 AM, Bryan O'Brien wrote: > So /usr/bin precedes your other python installations. This is expected. Don't modify /usr/bin/python. The operating system might depend on its existence. > > Rather, pick one of the paths containing python3, and modify your ~/.zshrc - placing this python3 location before /usr/bin. > > You'll have to restart the terminal (or source ~/.zshrc) for the path changes to take effect. > > FWIW, I've found (on GitHub) the program known as "pyenv" to be invaluable - from a personal perspective. Might be more than what you need/want, but an excellent python management/installer IMHO. > >> On Oct 30, 2021, at 05:54, Richard Damon wrote: >> >> ?Actually, it says I only have 1 'python', but multiple 'python3' >> /usr/bin/python symlinks to a version 2.7 off in /System/Library/Frameworks/ >> >> All the versions 3.x only appear as python3 or python3.x >> >> It could well be that they haven't fully removed python2.7 dependencies from the system (or maybe better, haven't validated that they have) so python means python2 for backwards compatibility. >> >> >>> On 10/29/21 11:31 PM, Bryan O'Brien wrote: >>> ?Likely, you have multiple Python executables on your system. >>> This will necessitate modifying your PATH. >>> >>> In terminal, run: >>> >>> which -a python >>> >>> If multiple python versions exist (this is normal with MacOS), just ensure that the python you want to use is listed first in your path. >>> >>> grep -i path ~/.zshrc >>> >>> HTH >>> >>>>> On Oct 29, 2021, at 22:00, Richard Damon wrote: >>>> ?On 10/29/21 8:08 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote: >>>>>> On 29Oct2021 19:51, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>> On the Mac, 'Python Launcher' seems to just configure how python will >>>>>> run programs run under python. Generally from the Dock, you will want >>>>>> to click on the 'IDLE' icon, which launches the Python IDE, which gives >>>>>> and editor to write python programs or load a python script. >>>>>> The other way to run python is from the command line, using a command >>>>>> like python3 myprog.py >>>>> Also, Macs ship with Python. If your MacOS is current, the supplied >>>>> Python should be pretty modern. >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Cameron Simpson >>>> You might think that, but my Mac, running the latest version of OS-X, Monterey, reports for a "python --version" that the system default python is still 2.7.10 >>>> >>>> Now, this system is a 2019 Year model, but was built as a upgrade to an older system. so that might be a reason. >>>> >>>> Since I have been manually installing current Pythons, I don't know if they also have provided a python3 command with something more recent. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Richard Damon >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Tutor maillist - Tutor at python.org >>>> To unsubscribe or change subscription options: >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tutor maillist - Tutor at python.org >>> To unsubscribe or change subscription options: >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor >> >> -- >> Richard Damon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tutor maillist - Tutor at python.org >> To unsubscribe or change subscription options: >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > _______________________________________________ > Tutor maillist - Tutor at python.org > To unsubscribe or change subscription options: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor -- Richard Damon From alan.gauld at yahoo.co.uk Sat Oct 30 09:16:40 2021 From: alan.gauld at yahoo.co.uk (Alan Gauld) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 14:16:40 +0100 Subject: [Tutor] New to Python Programming Language. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 30/10/2021 14:03, Kaushal Shriyan wrote: > I am new to Python programming language without any programming experience. > Hello and welcome. > Please guide and suggest me to start learning it. There are many Python tutorials available many of which are aimed at complete beginners like yourself. There is a page listing them on the python web site: https://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/NonProgrammers It includes my tutorial(see .sig below) which uses a comparative approach and emphasises learning general programming techniques rather that Python specific idioms. But there are many others all with their own slant. Take a look, pick one that suits your style of learning. Do the examples, modify them, see if the changes produce the results you expect. If you don't understand anything, or can't get something to work come back here and ask for help. Always include your code and any error messages you get. -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos From mats at wichmann.us Sat Oct 30 13:37:52 2021 From: mats at wichmann.us (Mats Wichmann) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 11:37:52 -0600 Subject: [Tutor] PYTHON INSTALLATION PROBLEM In-Reply-To: <77E96EB7-7F22-4689-AEFF-C640CC15305B@joserivera.ca> References: <77E96EB7-7F22-4689-AEFF-C640CC15305B@joserivera.ca> Message-ID: <8af7f44c-5432-7412-090b-2803efd5cda6@wichmann.us> On 10/29/21 15:38, Jose Rivera wrote: > Hello, > > I just downloaded the latest version of python to my Mac book but when I click on the python launcher on my dock is not opening. Have I done something wrong along the process of the installation? Please help. I am a new user and don?t know if I have done the installing properly. Thank you very much > the behavior of that thing isn't entirely intuitive at first glance. make sure you've read this: https://docs.python.org/3/using/mac.html From learn2program at gmail.com Sat Oct 30 15:00:25 2021 From: learn2program at gmail.com (Alan Gauld) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 20:00:25 +0100 Subject: [Tutor] OT: Windoze via MacOS - Looking for some Off-list assistance Message-ID: <739c8988-0fd2-fc28-14ba-44648e7e9e60@yahoo.co.uk> Apologies for a very tenuously linked request. It's upgrade time as my current Windoze PC is beginning to struggle. I only really use it for 3 things: 1) Editing Photos 2) Editing Videos 3) writing books for commercial publication. (Which includes running Python and C/C++ dev environments - see, there is a link! :-) That gives me lots of options since all the programs I use for these things can run on Windows or MacOSX. So should I just buy a new Windows box? Or migrate to a new M1 powered Mac mini? The motivation to migrate comes from getting both my everyday and "media" PCs based on *nix. The advantage of staying on Windows is that it is still the majority option for readers of my books. If anyone has objective experience of **both systems** (no fanboys or Linux evangelists(*) please!) and is willing to answer a few questions I have and share experiences off-list I'd appreciate it. Also if anyone knows a non-partisan forum fr discussing such things I'd love to know. Most of the ones I've seen advocate vigorously for one or the other... (*)Nothing against Linux; it's my main system but opensource apps just don't come close for serious photo or video work and my publishers insist on Microsoft tools(and yes, I could use wine, but not for the other options). Apologies again for the OT theme. -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos From draculin at s.netic.de Sat Oct 30 15:59:01 2021 From: draculin at s.netic.de (draculin) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 21:59:01 +0200 Subject: [Tutor] New to Python Programming Language. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, I don't know how much time you'd have and how basic your level is, but I'd recommend you the series of Bryan Cairns, which I personally find very instructive ;-) Take a look here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVDRyLZXZCs or here: https://www.reddit.com/r/learnprogramming/comments/nwrsn6/video_series_learn_python_programming_for/ BR On 30.10.2021 15:03, Kaushal Shriyan wrote: > Hi All, > > I am new to Python programming language without any programming experience. > > Please guide and suggest me to start learning it. I am very much eager to > learn and will dedicate every day to understand it. I look forward to > hearing from you. > > Thanks in advance. > > Best regards, > > Kaushal > _______________________________________________ > Tutor maillist - Tutor at python.org > To unsubscribe or change subscription options: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor From sjeik_appie at hotmail.com Sat Oct 30 16:38:50 2021 From: sjeik_appie at hotmail.com (Albert-Jan Roskam) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 22:38:50 +0200 Subject: [Tutor] OT: Windoze via MacOS - Looking for some Off-list assistance In-Reply-To: <739c8988-0fd2-fc28-14ba-44648e7e9e60@yahoo.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Have you considered running Windows on a VM with MacOS as a host? I used Win7 for work on a Debian host eith Virtualbox for years and it worked well (Citrix didn't work well with Linux at that time). Often I also used Windows when I wanted to use hardware that had no reliable Linux drivers. It performs very well. Windows host + Linux VM performed noticably worse. You're right: eg GIMP is nice, but it is sort of Photoshop's cross-eyed brother. :-) Best wishes, Albert-Jan From PyTutor at DancesWithMice.info Sat Oct 30 16:43:48 2021 From: PyTutor at DancesWithMice.info (dn) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2021 09:43:48 +1300 Subject: [Tutor] New to Python Programming Language. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19d64268-6d1a-e818-fa83-7448381ebc7f@DancesWithMice.info> On 31/10/2021 02.03, Kaushal Shriyan wrote: > Hi All, > > I am new to Python programming language without any programming experience. > > Please guide and suggest me to start learning it. I am very much eager to > learn and will dedicate every day to understand it. I look forward to > hearing from you. Welcome to Python, and to the list! This is a good question. Many people turn first to 'social networking' and the likes of informal videos. Like @Alan, I suggest a more structured approach, so that you can see progress, and learn the basics without too many 'holes' (gaps in your knowledge). Additional thoughts: - books (library or purchase) - online courses (which can usually be audited for $free, or you can pay and receive a certificate upon achievement) eg coursera.org, edx.org Remembering also, that we are 'here' and happy to help you along the way... Disclaimer: I'm involved in courses (not Python) on the edX platform. -- Regards, =dn From mats at wichmann.us Sat Oct 30 17:58:22 2021 From: mats at wichmann.us (Mats Wichmann) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 15:58:22 -0600 Subject: [Tutor] New to Python Programming Language. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2d3af8db-be71-9740-428f-58a8be418fed@wichmann.us> On 10/30/21 07:03, Kaushal Shriyan wrote: > Hi All, > > I am new to Python programming language without any programming experience. > > Please guide and suggest me to start learning it. I am very much eager to > learn and will dedicate every day to understand it. I look forward to > hearing from you. > > Thanks in advance. > > Best regards, > > Kaushal I wanted to add to the other comments, there's now an astonishing amount of material on learning Python, free and paid. The wiki page Alan pointed to is volunteer maintained, and can't pretend to be complete as a result - feel free to search elsewhere too. To the point where we know it's overwhelming to try to make a choice. Since there is so much, you can try out different sources and see which feels like it works well for your learning style. If one doesn't, you can switch to a different one. The problem for us is there are so many nobody can know close to all of them, so it's hard to lean on any one given reviewer ("top five learning resources for Python", that kind of thing). From phillor9 at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 01:56:53 2021 From: phillor9 at gmail.com (Phil) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2021 15:56:53 +1000 Subject: [Tutor] Creating a two dimension set Message-ID: <9e2be6f5-b825-5291-ff5b-103c74454f97@gmail.com> As an example, if I wanted to create a two dimension list I would write: num_rows = 9 num_cols = 9 self.solution = [[None] * num_cols for _ in range(num_rows)] In my current creation I need a two dimension set and so I have used, again for example: result = set(self.solution[row][col]) - 3 However, my code has grown and I find that I'm making mistakes and it would be much simpler if I'd created a two dimension set in the first place rather that converting the list to a set every time I need to access it. I could, I suppose, use two for loops to create and initialise the set but there must be a simpler and less tedious way. I have very poor Internet access at the moment and searching for an answer hasn't been fruitful due to frequent disconnections. All that I've gained is a headache. -- Regards, Phil From cs at cskk.id.au Sun Oct 31 16:08:08 2021 From: cs at cskk.id.au (Cameron Simpson) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 07:08:08 +1100 Subject: [Tutor] Creating a two dimension set In-Reply-To: <9e2be6f5-b825-5291-ff5b-103c74454f97@gmail.com> References: <9e2be6f5-b825-5291-ff5b-103c74454f97@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 31Oct2021 15:56, Phil wrote: >As an example, if I wanted to create a two dimension list I would write: > >num_rows = 9 >num_cols = 9 > >self.solution = [[None] * num_cols for _ in range(num_rows)] Keeping in mind that this is a list of lists. Also, you're preallocating num_cols*nul_rows of storage. That can be wasteful if you're not filling much of it in. >In my current creation I need a two dimension set and so I have used, >again for example: > >result = set(self.solution[row][col]) - 3 This line makes no sense to me: you cannot subtract a number from a set. And initialising a set requires an iterable - does your list-of-lists itself contain lists? The "None" in your first example suggests maybe not. >However, my code has grown and I find that I'm making mistakes and it >would be much simpler if I'd created a two dimension set in the first >place rather that converting the list to a set every time I need to >access it. > >I could, I suppose, use two for loops to create and initialise the set >but there must be a simpler and less tedious way. I do not fully understand your use case, partly because your second example is not sane Python. I'm also not sure you mean "set". Can you tell us in more detail what you're doing, maybe a very small example programme? Might I suggest a dict indexed by a 2-tuple of (row,col)? A dict maps keys to values. If your keys are coordinate pairs you can use this mapping like a 2-dimensional array. Example: d = {} d[1, 2] = 9 # store 9 at (1,2) d[3, 5] = 10 # store 10 at (3,5) There are 2 caveats here: Dict keys must be static hashable values. ints, float, strings fit this bill. So do tuples of such values, eg (1,2). The other issue is what to do with the coordinates you have not set. For example, what happens if you access d[2,2] in the above code? There is no (2,2) entry, and a dict will raise a KeyError exception. You have 2 main approaches to this: a defaultdict (presupplied in the standard library) or a dict subclass with a __missing__ method. The former will fill in entries as you access them - this is easy and convenient and I suggest you use it first. The latter need not fill in entries, but is more work to implement. Using a defaultdict is like this: from collections import defaultdict ....... d = defaultdict(int) d[1, 2] = 9 # store 9 at (1,2) d[3, 5] = 10 # store 10 at (3,5) This is as before, but accessing an unfilled entry will fill it with the result of calling int(), which makes a 0. You can give defaultdict any callable which requires not arguments. For example "float", the float type, which will return 0.0 from floatz(). Or a small lambda if you want "None": d = defaultdict(lambda: None) Cheers, Cameron Simpson