ANSI color codes are a kind of protocol = to give=20 colorize the text presented to the user. A table of such codes is=20 in

h= ttp://pueblo.sourceforge.net/doc/manual/ansi_color_codes.html<= /DIV>

Basically, it is of the form escape = character=20 (ESC, = ASCII=20 value 27) followed by the appropriate code sequence. So you have to = interleave the text you send to the user with = these codes and=20 then the client must be able to interpret them.

You may also have to make sure the = client *can*=20 interpret ANSI color codes. Since it is a MUD, you use option = negotiation over=20 telnet? You have to check the relevant rfc's to know what's at stake. = For=20 everything related to the telnet protocol you can look at

http://www= .networksorcery.com/enp/protocol/telnet.htm

With my best regards,

G. = Rodrigues

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C2B296.890F6040-- From ramrom@earthling.net Fri Jan 3 10:31:16 2003 From: ramrom@earthling.net (Bob Gailer) Date: Fri Jan 3 10:31:16 2003 Subject: [Tutor] variable assignment In-Reply-To: <1041593750.3e157596bb481@atlas.ucpel.tche.br> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030102232637.02bae760@66.28.54.253> <5.2.0.9.0.20030102232637.02bae760@66.28.54.253> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030103082917.02b91008@66.28.54.253> --=======66F26452======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1CF2B71; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 09:35 AM 1/3/2003 -0200, amd@ucpel.tche.br wrote: >Would't be id(ins2.d[1][1]) to get the same id ? oops. you're right. Bob Gailer mailto:ramrom@earthling.net 303 442 2625 --=======66F26452======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1CF2B71 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002 --=======66F26452=======-- From rnd@onego.ru Fri Jan 3 10:46:01 2003 From: rnd@onego.ru (Roman Suzi) Date: Fri Jan 3 10:46:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Good reasons for 1.5.2 compatibility? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, John Abbe wrote: >I've started a project that i intend to make available to the public, >and have been keeping it 1.5.2-compatible. Is this worth the bother? >That is, do many ISPs still have 1.5.2 running? (mine did until i >asked for an upgrade) Are there any factors causing reasonable people >to keep 1.5.2 around? If nothing special (XML, Unicode, email, etc) is needed 1.5.2 is still a good choice. Also I know that 2.x has difficulties with non-latin1 texts in IDLE: so it is not possible to use Tkinter (thus build GUIs) with standard 2.x versions of Python. Personally I am using 2.2.2 for new programs but at work it's still mostly 1.5.2. As for NEW projects (public or private) I think 2.2.2 is great. Just do not use things which will change in future to be on the safe side. (i.e. 2/3, yield=404, etc) Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi -- rnd@onego.ru =\= My AI powered by Linux RedHat 7.3 From Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de Fri Jan 3 11:27:16 2003 From: Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael Janssen) Date: Fri Jan 3 11:27:16 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Good reasons for 1.5.2 compatibility? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, John Abbe wrote: > Are there any factors causing reasonable people > to keep 1.5.2 around? Some people do keep 1.5.2 on their system, but it's hard to tell what's their reason (that's a "frequently not answered question" on comp.lang.python). Perhaps it's just they are lazy. RedHat remained for a long time on 1.5.2 cause they frighten incompatibilities with their system-scripts written in python, but they have skipped this position and switched to a recent version. > Life, > John > -- > All you /\/\ John Abbe "If you don't like the news, > need \ / CatHerder go out and make some of your own." > is... \/ http://ourpla.net/john/ --Wes Nisker > > _______________________________________________ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > From sxa@fluent.com Fri Jan 3 12:40:02 2003 From: sxa@fluent.com (Sebastien Auclair) Date: Fri Jan 3 12:40:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Embeding Python... (Please help !) Message-ID: <029601c2b34f$0feaa760$8ae4e9c0@sxapc> Our problem is so trivial, it's crazy that we can't find anything on the net that would help us. We are trying to use the function PyArg_Parse and others in order to simply get a correctly casted pointer to a Python Class instance. That python class is in fact a subclass of a C++ class defining an interface. Our python file knows this interface class through SIP bindings. There are some examples of how we can get simple C type values (strings, int, float...) from Python types but nothing on pointers to class... We tried to use the O& option but it doesn't work. EXAMPLE : <<<<<<< PYTHON FILE >>>>>>>>>>>>> import Interfaces # From sipping def CreateInstance (): return Server () class Server (Interfaces.interface): def __init__(self): Interfaces.interface.__init__(self) <<<<<<<<< INTERFACE .h DEFINITION FILE>>>>>>>>>>> class interface{ interface(); ~interface(); someFunction(); }; <<<<<<<< MAIN APPLICATION >>>>>>> #include "Interfaces.h" ... ........python stuff to load and compile the python file...this works fine... we tested it ! ... PyObject * m_pylib = PyImport_ExecCodeModule( const_cast("server"), code ); Py_INCREF( m_pylib ); PyObject * mdict = PyModule_GetDict(m_pylib); PyObject * func1 = PyDict_GetItemString(mdict, "CreateInstance"); PyObject * v1 = PyObject_CallObject(func1,NULL); interface * interf = (interface*) v1; // OF COURSE THIS DOESN'T WORK BUT YOU GET THE IDEA.... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help ! ____________________________________________________________________________ ____________ From alan.gauld@bt.com Fri Jan 3 13:21:01 2003 From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com) Date: Fri Jan 3 13:21:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Debug Message-ID: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E097022E1@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> > >>I'm down in the middle of some mess that goes: "def _doexec(cmd, Use Next instead of Step. Step steps intp when you *really* want to get inside a function... > Now, if you recall BASIC, there was always a real easy way to check > out program progress. You just add a command Stop. That's what breakpoints do. I can't recall whether the python debugger(or the Pythonwin one) do watches but if they do you can set a watch event that will stop the program when a variable reaches(or exceeds etc) a specified value. Unfortunately the python debugger is fairly primitive so I'm not sure it can do that yet. Alan G From alan.gauld@bt.com Fri Jan 3 13:24:02 2003 From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com) Date: Fri Jan 3 13:24:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] ansi color coding Message-ID: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E097022E3@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> > Since it is a MUD, you use option negotiation over telnet? > You have to check the relevant rfc's to know what's at stake. > For everything related to the telnet protocol you can look at And its worth reminding that telnet is plain text, ie unencrypted so potentially insecure... so don't set things up to send your user ID/password over it... Alan g From alan.gauld@bt.com Fri Jan 3 13:31:20 2003 From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com) Date: Fri Jan 3 13:31:20 2003 Subject: [Tutor] variable assignment Message-ID: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E097022E2@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> > ins1 = one() > var = ins1.Get() <== 'hello' > print id(var[1]) <== id('e') > print id(ins1.d[1]) <== id('e') > > ins2 = two() > var2 = ins2.Get() <== 'hello' > print id(var2[1]) <== id('e') > print id(ins2.d[1]) <== id('hello') ins2.d is the dictionary, ins2.d[1] is the string, ins2.d[1][1] is the 'e'.... Alan g. Author of the Learn to Program website http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ From ramrom@earthling.net Fri Jan 3 13:40:02 2003 From: ramrom@earthling.net (Bob Gailer) Date: Fri Jan 3 13:40:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Debug In-Reply-To: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E097022E1@i2km11-ukbr.domain1 .systemhost.net> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030103113356.02b8fa68@66.28.54.253> --=======5E446756======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1CF2B71; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 06:11 PM 1/3/2003 +0000, alan.gauld@bt.com wrote: > > >>I'm down in the middle of some mess that goes: "def _doexec(cmd, > >Use Next instead of Step. Step steps intp when you *really* want to >get inside a function... Unfortunately that does not solve the problem with the PythonWin debugger. It still halts in debugger.py. Bob Gailer mailto:ramrom@earthling.net 303 442 2625 --=======5E446756======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1CF2B71 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002 --=======5E446756=======-- From Adam Vardy Fri Jan 3 14:46:01 2003 From: Adam Vardy (Adam Vardy) Date: Fri Jan 3 14:46:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Tkinter Message-ID: <1528827481.20030103161511@roadrunner.nf.net> Experimenting with TK, I came up on difficulties. Like, in one program, the window is there but whenever the pointer is over the window, there is always an hourglass. Can't see anything wrong. In another example, I have a button on the window. And a function is set to run for that. But it runs right away. And nothing happens when I hit the button! -- Adam Vardy From Adam Vardy Fri Jan 3 14:50:02 2003 From: Adam Vardy (Adam Vardy) Date: Fri Jan 3 14:50:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Comments Message-ID: <14429062880.20030103161907@roadrunner.nf.net> How is it you phrase comments? When I'd like to take out a block and experiment with the rest, what's the method? { code ... won't run } print "will run" -- Adam Vardy From Adam Vardy Fri Jan 3 14:50:16 2003 From: Adam Vardy (Adam Vardy) Date: Fri Jan 3 14:50:16 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Debug in PythonWin In-Reply-To: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E097022E1@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> References: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E097022E1@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> Message-ID: <13827711637.20030103155636@roadrunner.nf.net> Friday, January 3, 2003, 2:41:39 PM, you wrote: >> >>I'm down in the middle of some mess that goes: "def _doexec(cmd, >> Use Next instead of Step. Step steps intp when you *really* want to >> get inside a function... There is no Next option. Says Step in/ or Step out. But Step out is greyed out! Could other folks just confirm for me please if they found the same thing? The functionality all seems to be there. It just isn't working out for me. Show of hands? And, maybe some discussion if I can get anyway towards just writing a Stop command, type thing? -- Adam Vardy From aztech1200@yahoo.com Fri Jan 3 15:07:01 2003 From: aztech1200@yahoo.com (Aztech Guy) Date: Fri Jan 3 15:07:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: returning a read-only list/dict' - update - prop. not wkg. In-Reply-To: <20021229152713.68669.qmail@web9806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030103200614.96903.qmail@web9801.mail.yahoo.com> --0-1725536521-1041624374=:96889 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On 26 Dec 2002 05:31:07 -0800, aztech1200@yahoo.com (Az Tech) wrote: > > > > >Hello group, > > > > > >Platform: ActivePython 2.2.1 on Windows 98 - but nothing OS-specific > > >in the code. > > >This question is about how to return a list/dictionary from a method > > >(of a class) in such a way that it stays "read-only" to the caller - > > >or any other technique that is equivalent in terms of effect. Read on > Hi people, Some had suggested using the new 'property' feature of Py 2.2 to solve this problem. I tried it out, but it does not work unless I do a copy of the self.list or self.dict before returning it. Sample code and output below. # New_2.2_deep_copy_nested_list01.py # Program to test deep copy of nested list. class BinaryFile(object): import copy def __init__(self): pass def make_list2(self): self.__a_list2 = [ [1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6] ] def get_list2(self): t_list2 = copy.deepcopy(self.__a_list2) return t_list2 # set_list2() not defined # del_list2() not defined list2 = property(get_list2, None, None, "Two-level nested list") def main(): bf = BinaryFile() bf.make_list2() #print "bf.get_list2() = ", bf.get_list2() #1 print "bef mod, bf.list2 = ", bf.list2 #2 #bf.list2 = [] #3 bf.__a_list2 = [ [0], [1] ] print "aft mod, bf.list2 = ", bf.list2 #4 print "bf.__a_list2 = ", bf.__a_list2 if __name__ == '__main__': main() Output: >>> bef mod, bf.list2 = >>> [[1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6]] >>> aft mod, bf.list2 = >>> [[1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6]] >>> bf.__a_list2 = >>> [[0], [1]] >>> [Note: the last two lines of the output above show that it is still possible, though, to assign to the instance's __a_list2 member - even though this does not affect the value of the property. Is this some kind of 'shadowing' of the member variable ? (Used the same printing of id() both in the method and in the caller, and it returned the same value. ) Was able to modify the member variable using the return value of the method. The only way in which I could prevent it from being modified was by making my self.list or self.dict as 'private', using a leading double underscore, e.g. self.__list, as in the code above. Also, I can get the desired result without using property at all, simply by doing a copy (or a copy.deepcopy()) of the list/dict. I've finally settled on this approach: import copy . . . then, in the method, do hand-coded copy if the element is a 'scalar' variable (a la Perl), else, if a list/dict, do a copy.deepcopy(list/dict) and then return that copy. Just FYI. Az P.S. A partial answer to Bengt - you're right, the caller doesn't need to access the data *as* a dict - he just needs to access the individual items. I was just using a dict because I was enhancing this program from an earlier version in which I used a dict - because at that time I thought it would make it more caller-friendly (even though I was both the caller and the callee) to let the items be requested by name (e.g. file_data['file_ver'], file_data['creator'], etc.) than by indexing into the struct. That version of the app was not using classes/OO, and was a monolithic program, so there was no real need to make the return value read-only. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-1725536521-1041624374=:96889 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

> > On 26 Dec 2002 05:31:07 -0800, aztech1200@yahoo.com (Az Tech) wrote:
> >
> > >Hello group,
> > >
> > >Platform: ActivePython 2.2.1 on Windows 98 - but nothing OS-specific
> > >in the code.
> > >This question is about how to return a list/dictionary from a method
> > >(of a class) in such a way that it stays "read-only" to the caller -
> > >or any other technique that is equivalent in terms of effect. Read on
>

Hi people,

Some had suggested using the new 'property' feature of Py 2.2 to solve
this problem.
I tried it out, but it does not work unless I do a copy of the self.list
or self.dict before returning it.

Sample code and output below.

# New_2.2_deep_copy_nested_list01.py
# Program to test deep copy of nested list.

class BinaryFile(object):

    import copy

    def __init__(self):
        pass

    def make_list2(self):
        self.__a_list2 = [ [1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6] ]

    def get_list2(self):
        t_list2 = copy.deepcopy(self.__a_list2)
        return t_list2

    # set_list2() not defined
    # del_list2() not defined

    list2 = property(get_list2, None,
                    None,
                    "Two-level nested list")

def main():
    bf = BinaryFile()
    bf.make_list2()
    #print "bf.get_list2() = ", bf.get_list2()    #1
    print "bef mod, bf.list2 = ", bf.list2                #2
    #bf.list2 = []                                #3
    bf.__a_list2 = [ [0], [1] ]
    print "aft mod, bf.list2 = ", bf.list2                #4
    print "bf.__a_list2 = ", bf.__a_list2

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()

Output:

>>> bef mod, bf.list2 =
>>> [[1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6]]
>>> aft mod, bf.list2 =
>>> [[1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6]]
>>> bf.__a_list2 =
>>> [[0], [1]]
>>>

[Note: the last two lines of the output above show that it is still
possible, though, to assign to the instance's __a_list2 member - even
though this does not affect the value of the property. Is this some kind
of 'shadowing' of the member variable ?

(Used the same printing of id() both in the method and in the caller,
and it returned the same value. )

Was able to modify the member variable using the return value of the
method. The only way in which I could prevent it from being modified
was by making my self.list or self.dict as 'private', using a leading
double underscore, e.g. self.__list, as in the code above.

Also, I can get the desired result without using property at all,
simply by doing a copy (or a copy.deepcopy()) of the list/dict.

I've finally settled on this approach:

import copy

.
.
.

then, in the method, do hand-coded copy if the element is a 'scalar'
variable (a la Perl), else, if a list/dict, do a copy.deepcopy(list/dict)
and then return that copy.

Just FYI.

Az

P.S.

A partial answer to Bengt - you're right, the caller doesn't need to access the data *as* a dict - he just needs to access the individual items. I was just using a dict because I was enhancing this program from an earlier version in which I used a dict - because at that time I thought it would make it more caller-friendly (even though I was both the caller and the callee) to let the items be requested by name (e.g. file_data['file_ver'], file_data['creator'], etc.) than by indexing into the struct. That version of the app was not using classes/OO, and was a monolithic program, so there was no real need to make the return value read-only.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-1725536521-1041624374=:96889-- From churmtom@hotmail.com Fri Jan 3 15:07:15 2003 From: churmtom@hotmail.com (Tom Churm) Date: Fri Jan 3 15:07:15 2003 Subject: [Tutor] PythonWin IDE Problem on Win2K with ActivePython Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C2B36B.E3A6FEC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi, (i don't like to cross-post, but i'd sent this message originally one = week ago to python-help@python.org and never received a response.) i just installed ActivePython-2.2.2-224 on Windows 2000 (no Service = Pack). don't think it matters, but i'm running a multi-boot system and = Python has been installed on my (win2k) partition 'H:\' instead of = 'C:\'. Python works, and Tkinter works, but not the PythonWin IDE. as soon as = i open up the PythonWin IDE i get a popup window labelled 'Traceback = when executing InitInstance handler'. the text inside this popup is as = follows: File = "H:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\intpyapp.py", = line 163, in InitInstance import interact File = "H:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\interact.py", = line 26, in ? import winout File = "H:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\winout.py", = line 228, in ? import pywin.scintilla.view File = "H:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\scintilla\view.py", line = 16, in ? import bindings File = "H:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\scintilla\bindings.py", = line 6, in ? import keycodes File = "H:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\scintilla\keycodes.py", = line 25, in ? _better_names =3D [ exceptions.AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'VK_RETURN' please note that i've tried starting the ActivePython installer package = and running the 'Repair' option, as well as completely uninstalling = ActivePython and then reinstalling it (including deleting all Python = registry items before reinstalling), but it just ain't workin'. i hope = noone's going to suggest that i install a Win2k Service Pack...i'd like = to avoid this. any help would be greatly appreciated...oh, yeah - i'm 99% sure my = ActivePython installer package is not damaged, 'cause it's the same = installation file i've used to successfully install ActivePython on = another Win2K computer. thanks, tom ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C2B36B.E3A6FEC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

hi,

(i don't like to cross-post, but i'd = sent this=20 message originally one week ago to python-help@python.org an= d never=20 received a response.)

i just installed ActivePython-2.2.2-224 = on Windows=20 2000 (no Service Pack). don't think it matters, but i'm running a=20 multi-boot system and Python has been installed on my (win2k) partition = 'H:\'=20 instead of 'C:\'.

Python works, and Tkinter works, but = not the=20 PythonWin IDE. as soon as i open up the PythonWin IDE i get a = popup window=20 labelled 'Traceback when executing InitInstance handler'. the text = inside=20 this popup is as follows:

File=20 "H:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\intpyapp.py", = line 163,=20 in InitInstance
    import interact
File=20 "H:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\interact.py", = line 26,=20 in ?
    import winout
File=20 "H:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\winout.py", = line 228,=20 in ?
    import pywin.scintilla.view
File=20 "H:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\scintilla\view.py", line = 16, in=20 ?
    import bindings
File=20 "H:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\scintilla\bindings.py", = line 6,=20 in ?
    import keycodes
File=20 "H:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\scintilla\keycodes.py", = line 25,=20 in ?
    _better_names =3D = [
exceptions.AttributeError:=20 'module' object has no attribute 'VK_RETURN'

please note that i've tried starting = the=20 ActivePython installer package and running the 'Repair' option, as well = as=20 completely uninstalling ActivePython and then reinstalling it (including = deleting all Python registry items before reinstalling), but it just = ain't=20 workin'. i hope noone's going to suggest that i install a Win2k = Service=20 Pack...i'd like to avoid this.

any help would be greatly=20 appreciated...oh, yeah - i'm 99% sure my ActivePython installer package = is not=20 damaged, 'cause it's the same installation file i've used to = successfully=20 install ActivePython on another Win2K computer.

thanks,

tom

------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C2B36B.E3A6FEC0-- From altis@semi-retired.com Fri Jan 3 15:13:41 2003 From: altis@semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis) Date: Fri Jan 3 15:13:41 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Comments In-Reply-To: <14429062880.20030103161907@roadrunner.nf.net> Message-ID: There are a few ways. You could comment out every line # code # ... # won't run comment out the block with triple quotes """ code ... won't run """ or you could just indent the whole block and stick a test in front so it won't be executed if 0: code ... won't run The last one is probably best if what you really want is something like if DEBUG: print ... where you define DEBUG as 1 or 0 at the top of the module. ka > -----Original Message----- > From: tutor-admin@python.org [mailto:tutor-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of > Adam Vardy > Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 11:49 AM > To: tutor@python.org > Subject: [Tutor] Comments > > > > How is it you phrase comments? When I'd like to take out a block and > experiment with the rest, what's the method? > > { > > code > ... > > won't run > > } > > print "will run" > > -- > Adam Vardy > > > _______________________________________________ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > From aztech1200@yahoo.com Fri Jan 3 16:45:02 2003 From: aztech1200@yahoo.com (Aztech Guy) Date: Fri Jan 3 16:45:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Applications/examples of some advanced Py features, please ! Message-ID: <20030103214439.9023.qmail@web9801.mail.yahoo.com> --0-1059684377-1041630279=:8758 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Python gurus, Can anyone please give some examples / applications of the use of the following advanced (advanced to me, at least :-) features of Python : 1. lambda 2. nested functions - a little info was given by Danny in reply to my earlier post on local-static variables, but I would like more. 3. Thoughts on implementing Interfaces in Py - a la Java interfaces. I am, and will be doing more, on reading the docs and googling for this, but would anyway appreciate inputs from those who know this stuff. I have a specific reason for the above questions- apart from general interest, of course -> I am planning to write a game-playing program in Py which will have features somewhat AI - ish. I don't have any background in AI; nor much in functional programming. I do understand recursion though. I suspect that some of the above 3 points will help me to write my app in a better way. though not sure, of course. Hence the request for examples. For all of the above 3 points, I'm interested in : - code examples of their use - in what way their use makes code simpler, or maybe makes code possible that could not be written otherwise ('possible' in practical terms - I'm - vaguely - aware of the fact that all languages are supposed to be theoretically 'Turing-equivalent' or some such term - but what I mean is that if something is going to take a huge amount more code in some other language, or jumping through hoops, then I don't call it practically equivalent). Thanks ! Az --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-1059684377-1041630279=:8758 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hi Python gurus,

Can anyone please give some examples / applications of the use of the following advanced (advanced to me, at least :-) features of Python :

1. lambda

2. nested functions - a little info was given by Danny in reply to my earlier post on local-static variables, but I would like more.

3. Thoughts on implementing Interfaces in Py - a la Java interfaces.

I am, and will be doing more, on reading the docs and googling for this, but would anyway appreciate inputs from those who know this stuff.

I have a specific reason for the above questions- apart from general interest, of course -> I am planning to write a game-playing program in Py which will have features somewhat AI - ish. I don't have any background in AI; nor much in functional programming. I do understand recursion though. I suspect that some of the above 3 points will help me to write my app in a better way. though not sure, of course. Hence the request for examples.

For all of the above 3 points, I'm interested in :

- code examples of their use

- in what way their use makes code simpler, or maybe makes code possible that could not be written otherwise ('possible' in practical terms - I'm - vaguely - aware of the fact that all languages are supposed to be theoretically 'Turing-equivalent' or some such term - but what I mean is that if something is going to take a huge amount more code in some other language, or jumping through hoops, then I don't call it practically equivalent).

Thanks !

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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-1059684377-1041630279=:8758-- From ramrom@earthling.net Fri Jan 3 17:40:34 2003 From: ramrom@earthling.net (Bob Gailer) Date: Fri Jan 3 17:40:34 2003 Subject: [Tutor] subclass of list In-Reply-To: <13827711637.20030103155636@roadrunner.nf.net> References: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E097022E1@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E097022E1@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030103142844.02baaac8@66.28.54.253> --=======1596208D======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1CF2B71; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In the latest Python one can subclass types, such as list. What is the benefit? What can one do with an instance of a subclass of list? I'd like to think that, given: class MyList(list): def __init__(self, list) self.list = list x = MyList([3,4]) x[0] would then return 3? Bob Gailer mailto:ramrom@earthling.net 303 442 2625 --=======1596208D======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1CF2B71 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002 --=======1596208D=======-- From ramrom@earthling.net Fri Jan 3 17:47:02 2003 From: ramrom@earthling.net (Bob Gailer) Date: Fri Jan 3 17:47:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Applications/examples of some advanced Py features, please ! In-Reply-To: <20030103214439.9023.qmail@web9801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030103154019.02ba0508@66.28.54.253> --=======41CB536C======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1CF2B71; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Regarding lambda, it is an abbreviated way of defining a function. The limitation is that the body of the function is one expression whose value is returned. f = lambda x, y:x+y is the same as def f(x, y): return x+y It is useful when you only need to refer to the function once, as in: filter(lambda x:x>5, some-sequence-of-numbers) That's all I have to say about lambda, except that, if you want to use it with list comprehension the syntax is a little tricky: [(lambda x:x>5)(item) for item in some-sequence-of-numbers] Bob Gailer mailto:ramrom@earthling.net 303 442 2625 --=======41CB536C======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1CF2B71 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002 --=======41CB536C=======-- From Don Arnold" Message-ID: <0b1801c2b37a$d2632490$8510ba3f@defaultcomp> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Vardy" To: Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 1:45 PM Subject: [Tutor] Tkinter > > Experimenting with TK, I came up on difficulties. Like, in one > program, the window is there but whenever the pointer is over the > window, there is always an hourglass. Can't see anything > wrong. I don't know about this one, but does it happen when you execute the script from the command prompt? Most IDEs have their own event loop that doesn't play nice with Tkinter. > > In another example, I have a button on the window. And a function is > set to run for that. But it runs right away. And nothing happens when > I hit the button! > > -- > Adam Vardy This is a pretty common error. Make sure the callback you supply to the button constructor does _not_ include the parentheses. For example: b = Button(master, text="OK", command=self.ok) assigns the function 'self.ok' as the callback to be executed when the button is pressed. However, b = Button(master, text="OK", command=self.ok( ) ) executes self.ok( ) once when the button is istantiated and assigns the result to the button's 'command' attribute. For more info on Tkinter, you might want to check out http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm . HTH, Don From dman@dman.ddts.net Fri Jan 3 18:01:01 2003 From: dman@dman.ddts.net (Derrick 'dman' Hudson) Date: Fri Jan 3 18:01:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: Embeding Python... (Please help !) In-Reply-To: <029601c2b34f$0feaa760$8ae4e9c0@sxapc> References: <029601c2b34f$0feaa760$8ae4e9c0@sxapc> Message-ID: <20030103230003.GA25215@dman.ddts.net> --G4iJoqBmSsgzjUCe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jan 03, 2003 at 12:39:26PM -0500, Sebastien Auclair wrote: | Our problem is so trivial, it's crazy that we can't find anything on the = net | that would help us. |=20 | We are trying to use the function PyArg_Parse and others in order to simp= ly | get a correctly casted pointer to a Python Class instance. In C or C++ the type will be known as "PyObject". | That python class is in fact a subclass of a C++ class defining an | interface. Our python file knows this interface class through SIP binding= s. |=20 | There are some examples of how we can get simple C type values (strings, | int, float...) from Python types but nothing on pointers to class... We | tried to use the O& option but it doesn't work. | PyObject * v1 =3D PyObject_CallObject(func1,NULL); |=20 | interface * interf =3D (interface*) v1; // OF COURSE THIS DOESN'T WORK B= UT | YOU GET THE IDEA.... The problem here is you want to throw python away. The python object isn't _really_ a implementation of the interface. It is just a PyObject. It just so happens that the contents of the PyObject make it behave (in python) as an implementation of the interface. You need to use the python API to interact with and extract the lower-level data from the PyObject. For example, the interafce defines a method named "update" you would call it with PyObject_CallMethod(v1, "update", NULL); // it returns Py_None Now you want to use the "getValue" method on the interface to get the (integer) value from the class instance. PyObject* presult =3D PyObject_CallObject(v1, "getValue", NULL); int result =3D (int) PyInt_AsLong( presult ) ; Py_DEREF(presult) ; presult =3D NULL ; This might seem like it is overkill and too much effort -- after all, you have the interface declared in C++, but since the object itself is a python object all of its life cycle must be managed by python. The python interpreter is needed to enforce the Python, not C++, semantics of the object. The C (or C++) code for managing python objects will always be much longer and more tedious than the equivalent python code because the C (C++) compiler doesn't provide the same runtime services for C (C++) objects that the python interpreter provides for python objects.. NOTE: In this example code and in the code you posted there is no error checking. If a python C-level function returns NULL that means an exception has occured. http://python.org/doc/current/api/exceptions.html HTH, -D --=20 Windows, hmmm, does it come with a GUI interface that works or just pretty blue screens? =20 http://dman.ddts.net/~dman/ --G4iJoqBmSsgzjUCe Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj4WFfMACgkQO8l8XBKTpRR07gCfTZ1QD0r9kweyRyJlxijJjJoU FZsAnRUOVyrxwrw1kRB5MGSvefG/Rng6 =Yc8O -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --G4iJoqBmSsgzjUCe-- From Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de Fri Jan 3 18:48:02 2003 From: Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael Janssen) Date: Fri Jan 3 18:48:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] subclass of list In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030103142844.02baaac8@66.28.54.253> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Bob Gailer wrote: > In the latest Python one can subclass types, such as list. > What is the benefit? What can one do with an instance of a subclass of list? I made very slow processes in understanding those OOP stuff, but one of the first things I've done with it was subclassing dictionaries and strings (sorry, not lists, but it's the same: adaptation of datastructures to personal needs). As a beginnner I don't subclass dict/list/string directly but the UserDict/List/String modules: These classes reimplement the exact behaviour of dict-list-strings. When you modify (subclass) these classes you possibly don't overwrite some essential functionality (Because you can take a look at the functionality in UserDict/andsoon). If subclassed UserDict in order to provide some more methods especially for the needs of my programm: it uses an internal "data-container" which is in core a dict (i.e. was a dict in early programm-versions). I recognize that I was constantly doing the same jobs with this data containing dict and so I decided to enhance UserDict with methods for this jobs. My life was easier since then, because I needn't to paste and copy the code any more but use the new methods (which means: I needn't to think of the internal implementation any more) Some days ago I have added a "readline" methods to UserString: I was struggling with the Classes in mailbox, mimetools and multifile moduls which all want to get a filedescriptor to read from. Instantiate those Classes with strings fails because of the missing readline method. Now it *works* (Disclaimer: this was purely to learn how thoses Classes work; I have removed this "workaround-code" and go on with real filedescriptors.) For lists, it can be: You don't want to write median(AList) (1) but rather: AList.median(). Or you want to compair two list not in the implementet way (That is campaire the first values, if equally the seconds and so on) but for example by its median. therefore you simply overwrite the __cmp__ method. Or you want to get something completly different as a two dimensional array. Perhaps subclassing list or UserList is a good start point for this. In short: You can put additional methods into your own classes and forget about the implementation. You can use __operator__ methods (look in doc/lib/module-operator.html for this) to call methods "without calling them directly" (hope you understand what I mean). With these operators you can overwrite the *behaviour* of list/dict/string On a side note: I've got my first inside in what OOP is for, as someone wrotes that "OOP means to put the data and functionality together". From then on, I rewrote my script, which consists of functions to handel input and store it into datastructures and functions to retrieve the data and transform it for output. now this script consist of a modified UserDict which makes much of the work self and functions to call my UserDict instance (that's not OOP, but it's a step, I believe ;-). Therefore I'm comming from the datastructure side and go to put some functionality into data, which might be a kind of OOP; but: only one kind of ;-) Michael > I'd like to think that, given: > > class MyList(list): > def __init__(self, list) > self.list = list > x = MyList([3,4]) > > x[0] would then return 3? When you take a look into UserList.py you might find out yourself, why this isn't already working ;-) > > Bob Gailer > mailto:ramrom@earthling.net > 303 442 2625 > From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Jan 3 19:47:01 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Fri Jan 3 19:47:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Applications/examples of some advanced Py features, please ! In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030103154019.02ba0508@66.28.54.253> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Bob Gailer wrote: > Regarding lambda, it is an abbreviated way of defining a function. The > limitation is that the body of the function is one expression whose > value is returned. > > f = lambda x, y:x+y > > is the same as > > def f(x, y): > return x+y Hi Bob, Python's lambda expressions are deliberately weakened to force people to use them only for simple stuff --- Python programs favor giving real names to functions. In contrast, in some other languages, like Scheme and Ocaml, the lambda concept is allowed more expressivity, so lambda is more prevalent in those languages. > It is useful when you only need to refer to the function once, as in: > filter(lambda x:x>5, some-sequence-of-numbers) > > That's all I have to say about lambda, except that, if you want to use > it with list comprehension the syntax is a little tricky: > > [(lambda x:x>5)(item) for item in some-sequence-of-numbers] I think you mean: [item for item in some_sequence_of_numbers if (lambda x: x>5)(item)] to do a filtering kind of operation. But yes, this is pretty darn ugly. List comprehensions and lambdas don't mix very well, but that's probably because they're not supposed to. *grin* A functional programmer would use the filter() function instead of a list comprehension: ### >>> some_sequence_of_numbers = [3,1,4,1,5,9,2,6] >>> filter(lambda x: x>5, some_sequence_of_numbers) [9, 6] ### which, if we cross our eyes funny, can scan as "Filter a list of elements out of some_sequence_of_numbers, chosen by this particular boolean function." Just to contrast with another language, let's see what this might look like in OCaml: (*** OCaml code --- the stuff with # in the beginning is what I type. ***) # let some_sequence_of_numbers = [3;1;4;1;5;9;2;6];; val some_sequence_of_numbers : int list = [3; 1; 4; 1; 5; 9; 2; 6] # List.filter (function x -> x > 5) some_sequence_of_numbers;; - : int list = [9; 6] (***) Good, at least we get a similar result. *grin* Lambda is pretty much used as a convenient way of writing quicky one-shot functions for "mapping" and "filtering". In computer science theory, they're pretty important --- in the functional-based languages, lambdas are a fundamental building block of computation --- but in Python, they play a backstage role: it's often a good thing to just define a new function using 'def'. Good luck! From beercanz@hotmail.com Fri Jan 3 21:09:02 2003 From: beercanz@hotmail.com (Guess Who? Me) Date: Fri Jan 3 21:09:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Help. Message-ID: This is what I've done: a=0 b=0 ###### print "Enter 2 numbers!" a=input("Give me the first number so I may munch it!") b=input("Give me the second number so I may munch it!") ###### if a+b < 100: print "That number 'aint so big!" elif a+b > 100: print "That number is huge!" else: print "That number is on the edge." The question: when I try to say, 'Sum=a+c', and plug that in for a+b in the if and elif statements, it doesn't work. I'll plug in sum for a+b and put sum=a+b at the top, and the program thinks every number 'aint so big - strange. Any help is appreciated, I hope the question was clear enough. Thanks! Travis _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From ramrom@earthling.net Fri Jan 3 21:50:14 2003 From: ramrom@earthling.net (Bob Gailer) Date: Fri Jan 3 21:50:14 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Help. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030103194441.02c20e18@66.28.54.253> --=======4AA0B0E======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1CF2B71; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 02:03 AM 1/4/2003 +0000, Guess Who? Me wrote: >a=0 >b=0 >###### >print "Enter 2 numbers!" >a=input("Give me the first number so I may munch it!") >b=input("Give me the second number so I may munch it!") >###### >if a+b < 100: > print "That number 'aint so big!" >elif a+b > 100: > print "That number is huge!" >else: > print "That number is on the edge." > >The question: >when I try to say, 'Sum=a+c', and plug that in for a+b in the if and elif >statements, it doesn't work. I'll plug in sum for a+b and put sum=a+b at >the top, and the program thinks every number 'aint so big - strange. Any >help is appreciated, I hope the question was clear enough. Please provide the code that doesn't work. It's very hard to guess what it looks like. If I took you literally, I'd expect: sum a+b # at the top, as you say a=0 b=0 etc which clearly won't work. Also note that assigning a=0 and b=0 accomplishes nothing, as they are replaced by the inputs. Bob Gailer mailto:ramrom@earthling.net 303 442 2625 --=======4AA0B0E======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1CF2B71 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002 --=======4AA0B0E=======-- From ramrom@earthling.net Fri Jan 3 22:15:01 2003 From: ramrom@earthling.net (Bob Gailer) Date: Fri Jan 3 22:15:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] subclass of list In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030103142844.02baaac8@66.28.54.253> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030103195708.02c31d60@66.28.54.253> --=======7F796E11======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1CF2B71; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Your reference to UserList helped. One thing I missed was that the internal list can be set by passing a list as the argument to the instantiation call. >>> class UL(UserList):pass >>> ul=UL([1,2,3]) >>> ul [1,2,3] >>> ul.data [1,2,3] AND (using list instead of UserList) >>> class UL(llist):pass >>> ul=UL([1,2,3]) >>> ul [1,2,3] HOWEVER: >>> ul.data AttributeError: 'UL' object has no attribute 'data' A little "thinking and experimenting" led to: instead of manipulating self.data one now manipulates self: >>> class UL(list): ... def a(self): ... self[0]+=1 >>> ul=UL([1,2,3]) >>> ul.a() >>> ul [2, 2, 3] Bob Gailer mailto:ramrom@earthling.net 303 442 2625 --=======7F796E11======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1CF2B71 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002 --=======7F796E11=======-- From glingl@aon.at Sat Jan 4 00:37:01 2003 From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Sat Jan 4 00:37:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] subclass of list References: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E097022E1@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E097022E1@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20030103142844.02baaac8@66.28.54.253> Message-ID: <3E1672D4.8010202@aon.at> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030307060502060304060109 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Gailer schrieb: > In the latest Python one can subclass types, such as list. Hi Bob! If you want to subclass a built-in type, you have to calls the constructor of the parent-class in the same way as if you subclass any class. That means, as a "class"-method, which goes like this: >>> class MyList(list): ... def __init__(self, liste): ... list.__init__(self,liste) ... >>> a = MyList([3,4]) >>> a [3, 4] >>> a[0] 3 You now can use any list method with a: >>> a.append(1001) >>> a [3, 4, 1001] >>> > > What is the benefit? What can one do with an instance of a subclass of > list? For instance - as an appendix to the median-thread from two or three days ago - you may create a class of Lists, which know their own median: class mlist(list): def __init__(self, aList): list.__init__(self,aList) def median(self): # according to Don Arnolds implementation tempList = self[:] tempList.sort() listLen = len(tempList) middleIndex = (listLen - 1) // 2 if listLen % 2 == 1: #odd number of elements. return middle element return tempList[middleIndex] else: #even number of element. return average of middle 2 elements return (tempList[middleIndex] + tempList[middleIndex + 1]) / 2.0 if __name__ == '__main__': theList = mlist([2,3,4,5,6]) print theList print 'median = ', theList.median() theList = mlist([1,2,6,7]) print theList print 'median = ', theList.median() Running this program you get: [2, 3, 4, 5, 6] median = 4 [1, 2, 6, 7] median = 4.0 You may find another interesting example in the attachment. There is defined a class Turm, which means tower :-) , derived from list. Actually there the constructor list.__init__ needs not to be called, because newly constructed Turms always are empty. Regards, Gregor > > I'd like to think that, given: > > class MyList(list): > def __init__(self, list) > self.list = list > x = MyList([3,4]) > > x[0] would then return 3? > > Bob Gailer --------------030307060502060304060109 Content-Type: text/plain; name="hanoig.py" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="hanoig.py" ### Python für Kids - Kapitel B4 ### # Autor: Gregor Lingl # Datum: 29. 9. 2002 # hanoig.py from Tkinter import Tk, Canvas from Canvas import Rectangle # from scheibe import Scheibe usingIDLE = 0 # auf 1 setzen, wenn das Programm von IDLE # aus ausgeführt wird. class Scheibe(Rectangle): "Bewegliches Rechteck auf einem Tkinter-Canvas" def __init__(self,cv,pos,laenge,hoehe): x0, y0 = pos x1, x2 = x0-laenge/2.0, x0+laenge/2.0 y1, y2 = y0-hoehe, y0 Rectangle.__init__(self,cv,x1,y1,x2,y2, fill = "red") def bewege_nach(self, x, y): from math import sqrt x1,y1,x2,y2 = self.coords() x0, y0 = (x1 + x2)/2, y2 dx, dy = x-x0, y-y0 d = sqrt(dx**2+dy**2) schritte = int(d/10) + 1 dx, dy = dx/schritte, dy/schritte for i in range(schritte): self.move(dx,dy) self.canvas.update() self.canvas.after(20) class Turm(list): def __init__(self, x, y, h): self.x = x self.y = y self.h = h def top(self): return self.x, self.y - len(self)*self.h def hanoi(n,von,nach,hilf): if n==1: move(von,nach) else: hanoi(n-1,von,hilf,nach) hanoi(1,von,nach,hilf) hanoi(n-1,hilf,nach,von) def move(von_turm, nach_turm): scheibe = von_turm.pop() x1, y1 = von_turm.top() x2, y2 = nach_turm.top() scheibe.bewege_nach(x1,20) scheibe.bewege_nach(x2,20) scheibe.bewege_nach(x2,y2) nach_turm.append(scheibe) def hanoispiel(n): """Führt ein Hanoi-Spiel mit n Scheiben aus:""" root = Tk() # ein Fenster root.title("TÃ¼rme von Hanoi") # mit Titel, cv = Canvas(root,width=440,height=210) # eine Leinwand - cv.pack() # - aufspannen pflock1 = Rectangle(cv, 75, 40, 85,190,fill='blue') pflock2 = Rectangle(cv,215, 40,225,190,fill='blue') pflock3 = Rectangle(cv,355, 40,365,190,fill='blue') boden = Rectangle(cv, 5,190,435,200,fill='black') turm_a = Turm( 80, 190, 15) turm_b = Turm(220, 190, 15) turm_c = Turm(360, 190, 15) for i in range(n): # turm_a aufbauen laengen_differenz = 100 // n laenge = 120 - i * laengen_differenz s = Scheibe( cv, turm_a.top(), laenge, 13) turm_a.append(s) hanoi(n, turm_a, turm_b, turm_c) if not usingIDLE: root.mainloop() if __name__ == '__main__': hanoispiel(7) --------------030307060502060304060109-- From tony@tcapp.com Sat Jan 4 01:07:01 2003 From: tony@tcapp.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Sat Jan 4 01:07:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] PythonWin IDE Problem on Win2K with ActivePython Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103221352.03f6ce10@smtp.sbcglobal.net> Tom, I am using Win2k SP3, but I'm using PythonWin32 1.50, on Python 2.2.2, I don't see this problem. What is Active Python ? From glingl@aon.at Sat Jan 4 01:12:02 2003 From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Sat Jan 4 01:12:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Applications/examples of some advanced Py features, please ! References: Message-ID: <3E167961.7090302@aon.at> > > > >Lambda is pretty much used as a convenient way of writing quicky one-shot >functions for "mapping" and "filtering". In computer science theory, >they're pretty important --- in the functional-based languages, lambdas >are a fundamental building block of computation --- but in Python, they >play a backstage role: it's often a good thing to just define a new >function using 'def'. > > Just to quote Guido (from: http://www.python.org/doc/essays/ppt/regrets/PythonRegrets.pdf ) . I've never liked lambda - crippled (only one expression) - confusing (no argument list parentheses) - can use a local function instead Gregor From glingl@aon.at Sat Jan 4 02:36:09 2003 From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Sat Jan 4 02:36:09 2003 Subject: [Tutor] subclass of list References: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E097022E1@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E097022E1@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20030103142844.02baaac8@66.28.54.253> <3E1672D4.8010202@aon.at> Message-ID: <3E168EF4.5010200@aon.at> :-( ! During preparing breakfast I suddenly recognized, that I had written some nonsense here - (perhaps I should have breakfast *before* writing emails.) Gregor Lingl schrieb: > > Hi Bob! > If you want to subclass a built-in type, you have to call the > constructor of the parent-class in the same way as if you > subclass any class. That means, as a "class"-method, which goes like > this: > > >>> class MyList(list): > ... def __init__(self, liste): > ... list.__init__(self,liste) > ... > >>> a = MyList([3,4]) > >>> a > [3, 4] > >>> a[0] > 3 This is only necessary if you additionally do something else in the constructor. Otherwise, the constructor of the parent-class is called automatically. So the following simple code also works: >>> class MyList(list): ... pass ... >>> a = MyList([3,4]) >>> a [3, 4] >>> a[1] 4 >>> Of course, MyList here is nothing more than an ordinary list. But also mlist doesn't need special initialization: >>> class mlist(list): def median(self): # according to Don Arnolds implementation tempList = self[:] tempList.sort() listLen = len(tempList) middleIndex = (listLen - 1) // 2 if listLen % 2 == 1: #odd number of elements. return middle element return tempList[middleIndex] else: #even number of element. return average of middle 2 elements return (tempList[middleIndex] + tempList[middleIndex + 1]) / 2.0 >>> >>> a = mlist([1,2,3]) >>> a.median() 2 >>> a = mlist([1,2,3,4]) >>> a.median() 2.5 Sorry for this error! As an - albeit rather useless ;-) - example for a classe derived from list, which needs the call of the constructor of the superclass ma serve the following: >>> class shortList(list): ... def __init__(self, aList, maxlen=3): ... self.maxlen = maxlen ... list.__init__(self,aList[-maxlen:]) ... def append(self, element): ... list.append(self,element) ... if len(self)>3: ... return self.pop(0) ... >>> a = shortList([2,3,5,7,11,13]) >>> a [7, 11, 13] >>> a.append(17) 7 >>> a [11, 13, 17] >>> Here the definition of append (overwriting the orginal method) also shows, how to call the append method of the superclass, which has to be done exactly in the same way as it is done with __init__. If you try to replace list.append(self,element) with self.append(element) you will see immediatly that this is definitly another append (namely the one, which is just going to be defined). Maybe this also will create some insight on why some special syntax is necessary for calling methods of the parent class. Hope, this examples + explanations are correct now, Gregor From glingl@aon.at Sat Jan 4 04:03:02 2003 From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Sat Jan 4 04:03:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] subclass of list - one more correction References: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E097022E1@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E097022E1@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20030103142844.02baaac8@66.28.54.253> <3E1672D4.8010202@aon.at> <3E168EF4.5010200@aon.at> Message-ID: <3E16A34C.6040101@aon.at> Gregor Lingl schrieb > > As an - albeit rather useless ;-) - example for a classe derived from > list, which needs > the call of the constructor of the superclass ma serve the following: > > >>> class shortList(list): > ... def __init__(self, aList, maxlen=3): > ... self.maxlen = maxlen > ... list.__init__(self,aList[-maxlen:]) > ... def append(self, element): > ... list.append(self,element) > ... if len(self)>3: # Should read, of course: if len(self) > self.maxlen: > > ... return self.pop(0) > ... > Sorry. (No more comment, Gregor) From gp@pooryorick.com Sat Jan 4 09:22:01 2003 From: gp@pooryorick.com (Poor Yorick) Date: Sat Jan 4 09:22:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] unicode utf-16 and readlines Message-ID: <3E16EE3E.6020603@pooryorick.com> On Windows 2000, Python 2.2.1 open.readlines seems to read lines incorrectly when the file is encoded utf-16. For example: >>> fh = open('0022data2.txt') >>> a = fh.readlines() >>> print a ['\xff\xfe\xfaQ\r\x00\n', '\x00'] In this example, Python seems to have incorrectly parsed the \n\r characters at the end of the line. It's an error that one can work around by slicing off the last three characters of every other list element, but it makes working with utf-16 files non-intuitive, especially for beginners. Or am I missing something? Poor Yorick gp@pooryorick.com From skitzomonkey@hotmail.com Sat Jan 4 09:46:01 2003 From: skitzomonkey@hotmail.com (mike O) Date: Sat Jan 4 09:46:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] pausing and layout Message-ID: I guess I have three questions, the first being: Is there a python command to pause until the user does something? Also, how do you get python (when you don't run it in DOS Prompt) to not auto-exit? I have made a few simple programs, but as soon as it shows the answer, it exits. last, I was wondering how you do visual stuff, or make a program run in a window, instead of in the command prompt screen? Thanks, Mike _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From op73418@mail.telepac.pt Sat Jan 4 10:07:02 2003 From: op73418@mail.telepac.pt (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Gon=E7alo_Rodrigues?=) Date: Sat Jan 4 10:07:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] pausing and layout References: Message-ID: <001301c2b403$c3768060$88190dd5@violante> ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike O" To: Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 2:45 PM Subject: [Tutor] pausing and layout > I guess I have three questions, the first being: Is there a python command > to pause until the user does something? > What do you want exactly? "until the user does something" is a very broad and general category to receive any useful and concrete answer. Is it input? Then the raw_input function is probably enough for you. Something like user_input = raw_input('Give a number, please: ') And then the program will just halt until the user has given some input and pressed newline. > Also, how do you get python (when you don't run it in DOS Prompt) to not > auto-exit? I have made a few simple programs, but as soon as it shows the > answer, it exits. > Just add a raw_input() call at the end of your program. Then, as I said earlier the program will pause giving you a chance to look at the output. > last, I was wondering how you do visual stuff, or make a program run in a > window, instead of in the command prompt screen? > This gets you in the realm of programming called GUI (graphical user interface) programming. First, you need a GUI toolkit. Python already comes with one: TKinter but there are others. The one I use is wxPython. But for an intro to TKinter you can start at: http://home.att.net/~stephen_ferg/thinking_in_tkinter/index.html > Thanks, > Mike > With my best regards, G. Rodrigues From gp@pooryorick.com Sat Jan 4 10:21:01 2003 From: gp@pooryorick.com (Poor Yorick) Date: Sat Jan 4 10:21:01 2003 Subject: Keeping DOS prompt/command window open (was [Tutor] pausing and layout) References: Message-ID: <3E16FC16.1020009@pooryorick.com> mike O wrote: > > > Also, how do you get python (when you don't run it in DOS Prompt) to > not auto-exit? I have made a few simple programs, but as soon as it > shows the answer, it exits. > > I've never seen my method of doing this posted, which is to opend python using cmd.exe /k. Here are the details for Windows 2000 (same concept should work on any version of Windows): From Windows explorer, go to Tools - Folder Options - File Types Select the ".py" extension and click "Advanced" In the "Edit File Type" window, click "New" In the action field, type in something descriptive, like "Run and remain" In the "Application used to perform action" field, add the following line: cmd.exe /k C:\Python22\python.exe "%1" %* click "OK" If you want to, set your new action as the default action. Your new action will now be available on the menu when you right-click. If it is the default action, it will trigger when you double-click on a .py file. You can also accomplish this same thing by making a shortcut to your Python executable and then adding command-line parameters to the shortcut. Poor Yorick gp@pooryorick.com From op73418@mail.telepac.pt Sat Jan 4 11:36:16 2003 From: op73418@mail.telepac.pt (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Gon=E7alo_Rodrigues?=) Date: Sat Jan 4 11:36:16 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Applications/examples of some advanced Py features, please ! References: <20030103214439.9023.qmail@web9801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001d01c2b410$49d816d0$88190dd5@violante> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C2B410.49B68510 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I will just comment on the functional stuff and reserve my comment on = the interfaces stuff to another post. I haven't got any specific use cases for you. But one advice that I got = and that helped me a lot was just to browse the code in the Python = standard library. The code there is high quality and you are bound to = find several use cases for lambda, although much less for nested scopes = since they are a relatively recent addition to the language.=20 If you want to learn more on functional programming, David Mertz has 3 = articles about it in the IBM developer works site. Just google for them. With my best regards G. Rodrigues ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Aztech Guy=20 To: tutor@python.org=20 Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 9:44 PM Subject: [Tutor] Applications/examples of some advanced Py features, = please ! Hi Python gurus, Can anyone please give some examples / applications of the use of the = following advanced (advanced to me, at least :-) features of Python : 1. lambda 2. nested functions - a little info was given by Danny in reply to my = earlier post on local-static variables, but I would like more. 3. Thoughts on implementing Interfaces in Py - a la Java interfaces. I am, and will be doing more, on reading the docs and googling for = this, but would anyway appreciate inputs from those who know this stuff. I have a specific reason for the above questions- apart from general = interest, of course -> I am planning to write a game-playing program in = Py which will have features somewhat AI - ish. I don't have any = background in AI; nor much in functional programming. I do understand = recursion though. I suspect that some of the above 3 points will help me = to write my app in a better way. though not sure, of course. Hence the = request for examples. For all of the above 3 points, I'm interested in : - code examples of their use - in what way their use makes code simpler, or maybe makes code = possible that could not be written otherwise ('possible' in practical = terms - I'm - vaguely - aware of the fact that all languages are = supposed to be theoretically 'Turing-equivalent' or some such term - but = what I mean is that if something is going to take a huge amount more = code in some other language, or jumping through hoops, then I don't call = it practically equivalent). Thanks ! Az ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C2B410.49B68510 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I will just comment on the functional stuff and reserve my comment = on the=20 interfaces stuff to another post.

I haven't got any specific use = cases=20 for you. But one advice that I got and that helped me a lot was just to = browse=20 the code in the Python standard library. The code there is high quality = and you=20 are bound to find several use cases for lambda, although much less for = nested=20 scopes since they are a relatively recent addition to the language. =

If you want to learn more on functional programming, David = Mertz has 3=20 articles about it in the IBM developer works site. Just google for=20 them.

With my best regards
G. Rodrigues

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Aztech=20 Guy

I have been looking for ways to capture scr= eenshots=20 using Python, but I have found nothing to help me. I have taken a few looks=20= at=20 the 'os' module, but couldn't find anything that looked helpful, although I=20 probably missed something. I have tried to find what I need by searching Goo= gle=20 and the Python tutor archive several times, but to no avail.

I'm not looking for a direct answer, just a= hint at=20 what I would have to do to capture screenshots in Python. Would I need to=20 do something like simulate a key press (if that's possible) or is there= a=20 function or module somewhere that I'm just not aware of yet?

Also, I'm trying to accomplish this in=20 Windows.

Thanks for the help,
Joshua=20 Miller

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2C23E.AE8F8F40-- From BranimirP@cpas.com Wed Jan 22 19:59:02 2003 From: BranimirP@cpas.com (Branimir Petrovic) Date: Wed Jan 22 19:59:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] capturing screenshots Message-ID: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D41A63E6@RIKER> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2C27A.D03702E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Since your target platform is Windows, one (and only?) admittedly kludgey way to pull something of this sort would be via free third party COM component - AutoIt.dll. It might help you (to a degree) in dealing with pains emanating from (ahem) lovely, non scriptable, GUI-only aspects of Windows environment. You could 'drive' it (AutoIt.dll) from Python and Mark Hammond's Win23all extensions, activate app you are interested in, then by sending ALT + P or CTRL + P keystrokes you might capture active window or whole desktop bitmap an paste it to the clipboard. Once there - on the clipboard - you have a way with it (Win32all again)... http://www.hiddensoft.com/AutoIt/index.html I doubt very much that proper Python way or suitable module for 'driving' (or interacting with) Windows GUI exists, especially so when even much simpler task like the one Python Expect module tackles (driving/interacting with command line apps/utilities) - does not exist for Windows platform. Branimir -----Original Message----- From: Jmllr891@cs.com [mailto:Jmllr891@cs.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 5:50 PM To: tutor@python.org Subject: [Tutor] capturing screenshots I have been looking for ways to capture screenshots using Python, but I have found nothing to help me. I have taken a few looks at the 'os' module, but couldn't find anything that looked helpful, although I probably missed something. I have tried to find what I need by searching Google and the Python tutor archive several times, but to no avail. I'm not looking for a direct answer, just a hint at what I would have to do to capture screenshots in Python. Would I need to do something like simulate a key press (if that's possible) or is there a function or module somewhere that I'm just not aware of yet? Also, I'm trying to accomplish this in Windows. Thanks for the help, Joshua Miller ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2C27A.D03702E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Since your target platform is Windows, one (and only?) admittedly kludgey way to pull something of this sort would be via free third party COM component - AutoIt.dll. It might help you (to a degree) in dealing with pains emanating from (ahem) lovely, non scriptable, GUI-only aspects of Windows environment.

You could 'drive' it (AutoIt.dll) from Python and Mark Hammond's Win23all extensions, activate app you are interested in, then by sending ALT + P or CTRL + P keystrokes you might capture active window or whole desktop bitmap an paste it to the clipboard. Once there - on the clipboard - you have a way with it (Win32all again)...

http://www.hiddensoft.com/AutoIt/index.html

I doubt very much that proper Python way or suitable module for 'driving' (or interacting with) Windows GUI exists, especially so when even much simpler task like the one Python Expect module tackles (driving/interacting with command line apps/utilities) - does not exist for Windows platform.

Branimir

-----Original Message-----
From: Jmllr891@cs.com [mailto:Jmllr891@cs.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 5:50 PM
To: tutor@python.org
Subject: [Tutor] capturing screenshots

I have been looking for ways to capture screenshots using Python, but I have found nothing to help me. I have taken a few looks at the 'os' module, but couldn't find anything that looked helpful, although I probably missed something. I have tried to find what I need by searching Google and the Python tutor archive several times, but to no avail.

I'm not looking for a direct answer, just a hint at what I would have to do to capture screenshots in Python. Would I need to do something like simulate a key press (if that's possible) or is there a function or module somewhere that I'm just not aware of yet?

Also, I'm trying to accomplish this in Windows.

Thanks for the help,
Joshua Miller

------_=_NextPart_001_01C2C27A.D03702E0-- From beercanz@hotmail.com Thu Jan 23 00:22:02 2003 From: beercanz@hotmail.com (Guess Who? Me) Date: Thu Jan 23 00:22:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Separating recursion, for loops, and while loops Message-ID: I started working on my dice program again, only this time I've decided to split it up - I want to eventually make three entirely separate ways to do the same thing (just for practice's sake) - one with a 'with' loop, one with a 'for' loop, and one with recursion. I have a question about the 'referencing local variable total before assignment', and I'd like some input (ha ha - no pun intended) on what I've done so far, if there is anything I should be doing differently, etc. (The program isn't finished, only the first part of it works, and the second part of it gives me that strange referencing error, even when I put total=0 at the top...well anyway, here is the code). ################ #Dice Roll Program import random #Use for loops, while loops, and recursion, separately, to yield #a dice program. def loop_dice(rolls, sides): if rolls<1: print "If you don't play, you can't win or lose." elif sides<1: print "There are either 0 sides, or infinitely many sides. Trippy." while rolls > 0: value=random.randint(1,sides) rolls=rolls-1 print value def for_dice(rolls, sides): if rolls<1: print "If you don't play, you can't win or lose." elif sides <1: print "There are either 0 sides, or infinitely many sides. Trippy." # I had a problem using rolls because it wasn't in a form that the #for list could swallow, I think, so I made it use the output of the #range #function. rolls=range(1,rolls) for elem in rolls: elem=random.randint(1,sides) value=elem total=value+total #'local variable total referenced before assignment' print total else: print "The end." choice=input("Press 0 to try my (working) while loop code,"\ "press 1 to use the for loop code:") rolls=input("How many rolls would you like to make?") sides=input("How many sides would you like to make?") if choice == 0: print loop_dice(rolls,sides) elif choice == 1: print for_dice(rolls,sides) ################### And one more thing - the first part, loop_dice, outputs things on different lines - is there any way, without using recursion, to add all the numbers together before printing them? And if I am using recursion, same question - can I output add the numbers together and output them? I'm sure I can, I just don't know how, and would appreciate the enlightenment. Oh, and the 'for' statement wouldn't work when I would use the input 'rolls' as a number - was that just in my imagination? http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/for.html says it can 'iterate over' the following: string, tuple or list. Why would you 'iterate' over a string - isn't a single string just one thing? Or does it mean that it can do operations on a string, and therefore can do operations on a string in a list? Why would you use the for statement for that? Also, what in the world is a tuple? Well...I'm done. I hope the questions aren't too horrible. Thank you for all of the previous help, (I think its starting to show a little! WOOHOO!) ~Travis _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From jjhegde@konark.ncst.ernet.in Thu Jan 23 02:11:48 2003 From: jjhegde@konark.ncst.ernet.in (Jayprasad J. Hegde) Date: Thu Jan 23 02:11:48 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Separating recursion, for loops, and while loops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030123070756.GA3367@ncst.ernet.in> hello "Guess who?", I have modified your program to make it work for "while", "for" and the recursive case. All the three have a similar behaviour, unlike the original version, and print out the dice "values" before terminating by printing out the cumulative values ("total"). problem with "while" version: _no_ return value; you are using "print while_dice..." in the main portion of the code My version: returns the total problem with the "for" version: 1. _no_ return value 2. redundancy for a short code e.g. > elem=random.randint(1,sides) > value=elem. I guess, if it helps you understand better you can stick to it. 3. total used on the RHS before "declaring". To avoid this problem you need to say "total = ..." before this statement. I have created a recursive version for you, in case you need some reference. Its open to all for comments. > > And one more thing - the first part, loop_dice, outputs things on different > lines - is there any way, without using recursion, to add all the numbers > together before printing them? you mean _juxtapositioning_ (or putting things on the same line) and not _addition_ don't you? In that case simply put a comma at the end of the print statement e.g. "print value," > > And if I am using recursion, same question - can I output add the numbers > together and output them? I'm sure I can, I just don't know how, and would > appreciate the enlightenment. check out the code. :) You'll find the code below my "signature" section. regards - JJH ps - why the anonymity? -- Human beings were created by water to transport it uphill. (defun JJHdetails () (format t "~&~A~&~A~&~A" "Jayprasad J Hegde, Staff Scientist, KBCS, NCST" "Gulmohar Cross Road 9, Juhu, Mumbai 400049." "tel: +91-22-26201606x373")) ------------------- import random def loop_dice(rolls, sides): if rolls<1: print "If you don't play, you can't win or lose." elif sides<1: print "There are either 0 sides, or infinitely many sides. Trippy." total = 0 while rolls > 0: value=random.randint(1,sides) rolls=rolls - 1 print value, total = total + value print return total def for_dice(rolls, sides): if rolls<1: print "If you don't play, you can't win or lose." elif sides <1: print "There are either 0 sides, or infinitely many sides. Trippy." total = 0 for elem in range (rolls): value=random.randint(1,sides) total= value + total #'local variable total referenced before assignment' print value, print return total def rec_dice (myrolls, mysides): total = 0 if (myrolls >= 0): value = random.randint (1, mysides) print value, total = rec_dice (myrolls - 1, mysides) + value return total choice=input(" 0 == while, 1 == for, 2 == rec:") rolls=input("How many rolls would you like to make?") sides=input("How many sides would you like to make?") if choice == 0: print loop_dice(rolls,sides) elif choice == 1: print for_dice(rolls,sides) elif choice == 2: print print rec_dice (rolls, sides) From p.hartley@spitech.com Thu Jan 23 04:39:01 2003 From: p.hartley@spitech.com (Paul Hartley) Date: Thu Jan 23 04:39:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Database driven web sites with python References: Message-ID: <001401c2c2c5$5a8e0d40$ebe710ac@pc7345> I tried the following code from a book - I just wanted a simple web site to test out some ideas and balked at installing Apache or Zope on my PC. It works OK for HTML pages but I can't get CGI scripte to work - I don't know anything about CGI though.. I would like to know how to get cgi scripts to work with this code (what do I put in the htmp page etc. simple steps!! # web.py import os from BaseHTTPServer import HTTPServer from CGIHTTPServer import CGIHTTPRequestHandler # os.chdir("/test/web/html") # Change to web directory! srvraddr = ("", 80) srvrobj = HTTPServer(srvraddr, CGIHTTPRequestHandler) srvrobj.serve_forever() ----- Original Message ----- From: Danny Yoo To: Danny Cc: Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 1:25 AM Subject: Re: [Tutor] Database driven web sites with python [Phil and Alex's Guide to Web Publishing] > > > On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Danny wrote: > > > Quick and easy question, can you use python to build database driven web > > sites. Thanks ahead of time for everyone help, and have a great > > weekend... > > Out of curiosity, what kind of database-driven web site are you thinking > of building? > > If you haven't seen this already, you may find "Phil and Alex's Guide to > Web Publishing" a useful (and amusing) web book to browse through: > > http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/ > > In particular: > > http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/databases-interfacing > > talks about the basics of writing database-driven sites. He uses a > programming language called Tcl/Tk to implement his site, but you can > translate that code to Python pretty easily. And even with the book's > non-Python focus, it gives a lot of good ideas that you can use to help > build your site. > > > Good luck to you! > > > _______________________________________________ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > From magnus@thinkware.se Thu Jan 23 04:41:02 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Thu Jan 23 04:41:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] capturing screenshots In-Reply-To: <000801c2c268$97e2b680$58bc8018@ne1.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030123103555.02c65eb0@www.thinkware.se> At 17:49 2003-01-22 -0500, Jmllr891@cs.com wrote: >I have been looking for ways to capture screenshots using Python, but I >have found nothing to help me. I have taken a few looks at the 'os' >module, but couldn't find anything that looked helpful, although I >probably missed something. I have tried to find what I need by searching >Google and the Python tutor archive several times, but to no avail. Look at Fredrik Lundh's stuff. He's the main imaging wizard of Pythondom. He's the guy who's behind the weather maps we see on TV here in Scandinavia, and his skills go further than weather forcast imaging. http://www.effbot.org/downloads/index.cgi/grabscreen-1.0-20010426.zip As far as I understand from the docs, this grabscreen stuff should be included in PIL now, but I didn't get it to work without this separate download. -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From charlie@begeistert.org Thu Jan 23 05:10:00 2003 From: charlie@begeistert.org (Charlie Clark) Date: Thu Jan 23 05:10:00 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Question about connections Message-ID: <20030123110904.1522.7@.1043311993.fake> Dear list, I've got to set up a mail-broadcast system which publishes to a lot (several thousand) of e-mail addresses and was wondering about the possible= problems and bottlenecks as one of the criteria is very rapid publishing to= the addresses. What are the best ways to approach this? Is it "expensive" to set up smtp connections and would it make sense to batch addresses (say several hundred at once)? in bcc: fields? I was thinking of batch publishing to several MTAs at once. Some thing a bit like this very bad pseudo code: msg =3D "You've been spammed" addresses =3D from_db_fetch_many(500) hosts =3D [host1, host2, host3, host4...] host_nr =3D 0 while addresses: =09mail.addHeader("bcc:", addesses) =09host =3D hosts[host_nr] =09smtplib.connect(host) =09smtplib.send("", "me@myhost.com", msg) I'd rather not reinvent the wheel on this and have started looking at Mailman for this but I'm not sure if that is the right thing for a broadcast only list with the addresses probably being held in an external source. Thanx for any suggestions / corrections Charlie From magnus@thinkware.se Thu Jan 23 06:07:05 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Thu Jan 23 06:07:05 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Database driven web sites with python In-Reply-To: <001401c2c2c5$5a8e0d40$ebe710ac@pc7345> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030123105922.02cb6a18@www.thinkware.se> At 17:54 2003-01-23 +0800, Paul Hartley wrote: >It works OK for HTML pages but I can't get CGI scripte to work - I don't >know anything about CGI though.. If you are planning to actually use the Python web server classes, there is no reason to spawn any new processes for CGI scripts if they are written in Python. You can simply import the python modules you need (or include the code in the same file as the web server stuff) and run it like a normal python program. For an example of this approach (which actually uses os.popen to run windows commands, but that's beside the point) look here: http://www.thinkware.se/cgi-bin/thinki.cgi/PyNetworkCheck CGI - The Common Gateway Interface - will make your web application slower, since the programs have to be started from scratch on each new request. (In the above case it would make no difference, since I have to run slow networking diagnostic commands. There it's more a matter of convenience.) If, on the other hand, you are going to run Python scripts from a web server such as Apache or IIS, you might not have any options, but to use CGI. But then you don't need to bother with the Python web server classes. Using both together sounds a bit odd to me (even if it's supported by Python). -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From magnus@thinkware.se Thu Jan 23 06:13:01 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Thu Jan 23 06:13:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Question about connections In-Reply-To: <20030123110904.1522.7@.1043311993.fake> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030123120634.02cb2aa8@www.thinkware.se> At 11:09 2003-01-23 +0100, Charlie Clark wrote: >I've got to set up a mail-broadcast system which publishes to a lot >(several thousand) of e-mail addresses and was wondering about the possible >problems and bottlenecks as one of the criteria is very rapid publishing to >the addresses. You mean problems such as people being angry because you spammed them? >What are the best ways to approach this? Not to do it? This does not really seem like a Python related question anyway, does it? I'm sure Python could handle it, the question is rather about mail servers, network (and possibly moral and legal issues ;). I'm sure there are more suitable forums for such questions. -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From charlie@begeistert.org Thu Jan 23 06:19:09 2003 From: charlie@begeistert.org (Charlie Clark) Date: Thu Jan 23 06:19:09 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Question about connections In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030123120634.02cb2aa8@www.thinkware.se> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030123120634.02cb2aa8@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <20030123121636.2163.9@.1043311993.fake> On 2003-01-23 at 12:12:20 [+0100], Magnus Lycka wrote: > > You mean problems such as people being angry because you spammed them? no, no spam involved. Completely legit mailing to registered users who want to receive it. Sorry, I didn't make this clear enuff initially. > >What are the best ways to approach this? > > Not to do it? > > This does not really seem like a Python related question anyway, does it? > I'm sure Python could handle it, the question is rather about mail > servers, network (and possibly moral and legal issues ;). I'm sure there > are more suitable forums for such questions. Indeed but it seems important how you feed the MTAs I've started looking at how Mailman handles this and will probably start my discussions there. Charlie From Deirdre Hackett" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C2C2EA.D3F85BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I want to read in infromation from the serial port. The probem is i can = take i the whole line but only want to read it in in lumps of 9 = characters.=20 As in, I want to read the first 9 characters and put that into X, then = read in the next 9 characters and put that into Y... Any advise. =20 Thanks, dee ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C2C2EA.D3F85BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I want to read in infromation from the = serial port.=20 The probem is i can take i the whole line but only want to read it in in = lumps=20 of 9 characters.

As in, I want to read the first 9 = characters and=20 put that into X, then read in the next 9 characters and put that into=20 Y...

Any advise. =

Thanks, dee

------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C2C2EA.D3F85BC0-- From dman@dman.ddts.net Thu Jan 23 10:09:01 2003 From: dman@dman.ddts.net (Derrick 'dman' Hudson) Date: Thu Jan 23 10:09:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: Splitting up the input In-Reply-To: <005301c2c2ea$d7fe53a0$0400a8c0@egbert> References: <005301c2c2ea$d7fe53a0$0400a8c0@egbert> Message-ID: <20030123150827.GA27184@dman.ddts.net> --qDbXVdCdHGoSgWSk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jan 23, 2003 at 02:22:15PM -0000, Deirdre Hackett wrote: | I want to read in infromation from the serial port. The probem is i | can take i the whole line but only want to read it in in lumps of 9 | characters.=20 | As in, I want to read the first 9 characters and put that into X, | then read in the next 9 characters and put that into Y... There are a couple of ways to do that with varying tradeoffs : (assume 'f' is a file object referring to the serial port; if you use windows I can't help with getting that object) line =3D f.readline() X =3D line[:9] Y =3D line[9:18] This will fail (with an IndexError) if the line is too short. Another way is to only read in 9 characters : X =3D f.read(9) Y =3D f.read(9) This will yield different results if the end of the input stream is encountered before 9 characters have been read. It will also count CR and LF as part of the 9 characters. In all cases you need to check the input to make sure you have what you expect to have before proceeding and deal with the situation if something isn't right.=20 HTH, -D --=20 "He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose= ." --Jim Elliot =20 http://dman.ddts.net/~dman/ --qDbXVdCdHGoSgWSk Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj4wBWsACgkQO8l8XBKTpRTIuwCbBn63AAUz2b7dKgzgW6mplxXb htYAoI+N3BzscFOjwolDeS46IWaHfOMc =BbKO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --qDbXVdCdHGoSgWSk-- From dman@dman.ddts.net Thu Jan 23 10:23:01 2003 From: dman@dman.ddts.net (Derrick 'dman' Hudson) Date: Thu Jan 23 10:23:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: Question about connections In-Reply-To: <20030123121636.2163.9@.1043311993.fake> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030123120634.02cb2aa8@www.thinkware.se> <20030123121636.2163.9@.1043311993.fake> Message-ID: <20030123151634.GB27184@dman.ddts.net> --gj572EiMnwbLXET9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jan 23, 2003 at 12:16:36PM +0100, Charlie Clark wrote: | Indeed but it seems important how you feed the MTAs That can be an important factor. Suppose you feed the MTA a single address at a time. The MTA must then handle each copy of the message as if it is an entirely separate message. If, however, you tell the MTA that the message is being delivered to an entire list of addresses, then for one thing it will have fewer messages on the queue to deal with, and it can optimize the transfer to other hosts by sending the message once with multiple recipients. | I've started looking at how Mailman handles this and will probably | start my discussions there. I recommend using mailman to handle the list and postfix to handle the mail. With my current setup (which only handles small lists so I haven't optimized it) mailman passes the message to the MTA separately for each recipient. It does this because I like the idea of using the return address to identify which list member has delivery problems. The return address looks like "list-name+user=3Ddomain@mydomain". I believe that if I look into using the VERP extension to SMTP then the mailman can inject only a single copy of the message to the MTA and still take advantage of the unique return addresses. The other optimization alternative is to have a single return address and mailman must then try parsing out the message to determine which address had a delivery failure. HTH, -D --=20 The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice. Proverbs 12:15 =20 http://dman.ddts.net/~dman/ --gj572EiMnwbLXET9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj4wB1IACgkQO8l8XBKTpRSogACfanfQ6RVT7uvFQ2vQf8QRk/R0 ZOIAn0I5SAwoopyYcUGhXD/PzXTeV1rr =vijF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --gj572EiMnwbLXET9-- From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Thu Jan 23 11:13:01 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Thu Jan 23 11:13:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: Splitting up the input In-Reply-To: <20030123150827.GA27184@dman.ddts.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Derrick 'dman' Hudson wrote: > On Thu, Jan 23, 2003 at 02:22:15PM -0000, Deirdre Hackett wrote: | I > want to read in infromation from the serial port. The probem is i | can > take i the whole line but only want to read it in in lumps of 9 | > characters. > > | As in, I want to read the first 9 characters and put that into X, | > then read in the next 9 characters and put that into Y... > > There are a couple of ways to do that with varying tradeoffs : > > (assume 'f' is a file object referring to the serial port; if you use > windows I can't help with getting that object) > > line = f.readline() > X = line[:9] > Y = line[9:18] Hello! It might be a better idea to avoid readline() on a "binary" stream, since there's a chance that there won't be any newlines in the file. In a worse case, if there aren't any newlines in this large file, then Python will waste a lot of effort trying to pull all the characters into memory. The read() method is much safer since we know that we want to pull chunks of 9 bytes (characters) at a time. > This will fail (with an IndexError) if the line is too short. No, the slicing above should not fail. For example, > line = f.readline() > X = line[:9] > Y = line[9:18] Here, Python will assign an empty string to 'Y' if the 'line' is too short for the slice. For example: ### >>> line = "this is a test" >>> x = line[0:20] >>> y = line[20:100] >>> x 'this is a test' >>> y '' ### This is because something like 'line[20:100]' asks Python: "Give me a string containing all the characters between indices 20 and 100". But there are no characters that span, so we get back the empty string. (It's analogous to the "vacuously true" sort of situation that mathematicians run into every so often.) Hope that clarifies things! From op73418@mail.telepac.pt Thu Jan 23 11:39:24 2003 From: op73418@mail.telepac.pt (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Gon=E7alo_Rodrigues?=) Date: Thu Jan 23 11:39:24 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Splitting up the input References: <005301c2c2ea$d7fe53a0$0400a8c0@egbert> Message-ID: <003201c2c2fe$a9c44850$b2160dd5@violante> ----- Original Message ----- From: Deirdre Hackett To: tutor@python.org Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 2:22 PM Subject: [Tutor] Splitting up the input >I want to read in infromation from the serial port. The probem is i can take i the whole line but only want to read it in in lumps of 9 characters. >As in, I want to read the first 9 characters and put that into X, then read in the next 9 characters and put that into Y... >Any advise. >Thanks, dee I don't know how to get at the serial port, but supposing you can get at it via a file object you can use the new generator facilities in Python 2.2 via (beware: untested code) def get(f, size): buffer = '' while True: #If the buffer is not enough to fulfill request get more from the file. if len(buffer) < size: data = f.read(size) if not data: raise StopIteration buffer += data else: ret, buffer = buffer[:size], buffer[size:] yield ret The function keeps an internal buffer, yielding size bytes at a time. Now you can just do it = get(, 9) And use with it.next() or in a for loop. Hope it helps, G. Rodrigues From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Thu Jan 23 11:49:01 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Thu Jan 23 11:49:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Database driven web sites with python In-Reply-To: <001401c2c2c5$5a8e0d40$ebe710ac@pc7345> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Paul Hartley wrote: > I tried the following code from a book - I just wanted a simple web site > to test out some ideas and balked at installing Apache or Zope on my PC. Hi Paul! Having a Web server on a PC may not be too bad of an idea though, since it'll allow you to play around with web serving. Since Apache's free for download, why not try it out? http://httpd.apache.org/ http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/howto/cgi.html You may find that it's not as difficult as you might expect. And if you do run into problems, Apache has a few resources that you can try out: http://httpd.apache.org/lists.html#http-users > I would like to know how to get cgi scripts to work with this code (what > do I put in the htmp page etc. simple steps!! No problem. Let's take a look. > # web.py > > import os > > from BaseHTTPServer import HTTPServer > > from CGIHTTPServer import CGIHTTPRequestHandler Ok, good, so this gives us access to the CGIHTTPServer class. > # os.chdir("/test/web/html") # Change to web directory! > > srvraddr = ("", 80) > srvrobj = HTTPServer(srvraddr, CGIHTTPRequestHandler) > > srvrobj.serve_forever() (You may run into a small permissions problem here: port 80, the port for http web serving, should be reserved for administrative users. On Unix systems, any port below 1024 can be grabbed by a program only by root, for security reasons. So while you're testing CGI stuff, you might need to run your program on a different port, like '8080'. This warning might not apply on Windows systems though...) Ah! In your line here, when you create the server itself: > srvrobj = HTTPServer(srvraddr, CGIHTTPRequestHandler) you may need to customize the CGIHTTPRequestHandler: by default, it looks for cgi's the '/cgi-bin' and '/htbin' directories, but you may need to extend this if you want CGI's to run in different places. For example, here's a way to customize that class so that whenever a url begins with '/mycgis', Python will treat scripts there as CGI's: ### class CustomCgiHandler(CGIHTTPRequestHandler): cgi_directories = ["/mycgis"] ### Once we have something like this, we can feed this CustomCgiHandler class to our server. Here's an interactive session that shows how this can work: ### [dyoo@tesuque dyoo]$ pwd /home/dyoo [dyoo@tesuque dyoo]$ ls cgi-bin hello.py [dyoo@tesuque dyoo]$ cat cgi-bin/hello.py #!/usr/bin/env python print "Content-type: text/plain\n\n" print "Hello world!" [dyoo@tesuque dyoo]$ cat test_cgi.py from BaseHTTPServer import HTTPServer from CGIHTTPServer import CGIHTTPRequestHandler class CustomCgiHandler(CGIHTTPRequestHandler): cgi_directories = ["/cgi-bin"] def main(): srvraddr = ("", 8888) srvrobj = HTTPServer(srvraddr, CustomCgiHandler) srvrobj.serve_forever() if __name__ == '__main__': main() [dyoo@tesuque dyoo]$ python test_cgi.py & [1] 15919 [dyoo@tesuque dyoo]$ lynx -source http://localhost:8888/cgi-bin/hello.py localhost.localdomain - - [23/Jan/2003 08:44:19] "GET /cgi-bin/hello.py HTTP/1.0" 200 - Hello world! ### That last command using 'lynx' is a Unix program that grabs web resources and dumps them to screen., and the few lines about 'localhost.localdomain' is log information that the server prints out on every request. But at the very bottom, we see the glorious message 'Hello world!", so we know that things are working. Does this work for you? I hope this helps! From alan.gauld@bt.com Thu Jan 23 12:15:57 2003 From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com) Date: Thu Jan 23 12:15:57 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Separating recursion, for loops, and while loops Message-ID: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E0974DA96@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> > the same thing (just for practice's sake) - one with a 'with' > loop, I assume you mean a while loop... > a 'for' loop, and one with recursion. Good idea. Should be interesting. > def loop_dice(rolls, sides): > while rolls > 0: > value=random.randint(1,sides) > rolls=rolls-1 > print value > > def for_dice(rolls, sides): > rolls=range(1,rolls) > for elem in rolls: I think you mean rolls = range(1,rolls+1) # generates [1...10] Or more pythonically: rolls=range(rolls): # generates [0...9] Or evenb more pythonically: for elem in range(rolls): > elem=random.randint(1,sides) > value=elem > total=value+total > #'local variable total referenced before assignment' You are creating the variable using itself, whioch isn't possible. You need to do total=0 outside the loop. > And one more thing - the first part, loop_dice, outputs > things on different lines - is there any way, without using > recursion, to add all the numbers together before printing them? Either just add them inside the loop or create a list and then add the values later using reduce(operator.add, numbers) But i'd think you might prefer to output the values on a single line by sticking a comma after the print: print value, # comma suppresses the newline > And if I am using recursion, same question - can I output add > the numbers together and output them? Same applies. In the return statement add instead of printing... Or append to a list and then output the result at the end. > Oh, and the 'for' statement wouldn't work when I would use > the input 'rolls' as a number - was that just in my imagination? You need to use range() coz the for loop in python is really a foreach loop and requires a sequence to work on. A number is not a sequence, range makes it into one... > the following: string, tuple or list. Why would you 'iterate' > over a string To process each letter in turn - say to encrypt it? > what in the world is a tuple? Simply a collection of values that you can't change(in Python). Alan g. Author of the Learn to Program website http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ From alan.gauld@bt.com Thu Jan 23 12:29:01 2003 From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com) Date: Thu Jan 23 12:29:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Splitting up the input Message-ID: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E0970235E@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> > I want to read in infromation from the serial port. To some extent this will epend on your OS and machine architecture. > The probem is i can take i the whole line but only want to read > it in in lumps of 9 characters. Assuming the data arrives in sensible line format then you might be best ton read the line into a buffer and then use slicing to access the data within it. If the data does not naturally arrive as a line then you may need to use the fctl or ioctl functions to read from the serial file decriptor the required number of bytes as they arrive in the buffer. Alan g. Author of the Learn to Program website http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ From tim@johnsons-web.com Thu Jan 23 13:58:02 2003 From: tim@johnsons-web.com (Tim Johnson) Date: Thu Jan 23 13:58:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Article/Code/Python vs. Rebol Message-ID: <20030123190040.GB24149@johnsons-web.com> Hello All: I've written two "columns" for a local 'webzine': It's at http://www.frozen-north-linuxonline.com/ One column is on mailing lists and my part of it is under "Tim's Byte's". Python (and rebol) is mentioned there. The other column is under "Code Corner" (link on right hand side). Content related to "Code Corner" was shared on this list earlier under the thread: Comparative code questions: Python vs. Rebol Enjoy! -- Tim Johnson http://www.alaska-internet-solutions.com http://www.johnsons-web.com From billintucson@yahoo.com Thu Jan 23 16:15:02 2003 From: billintucson@yahoo.com (Bill Gillespie) Date: Thu Jan 23 16:15:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] How best to create a sharp telemetry log file - from one long string of teletry? Message-ID: <20030123211407.54009.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Folks, I want to say thanks to the group for some help I recieved a few months ago in writing a simple GUI in tkinter. The finished gui source code as well as some screen shots of what it looks like is available here: http://www.noao.edu/noao/staff/gillespie/projects/oftc-gui-software-demo.html Now I'm trying to write a nicely formatted log file out of a single string of telemtry that I read of a serial line. The string had 40 different values - numbers such a "120", and titles sucs as "OFT" There are 40 of these seperated by white space. What is the best way to extract just the numerical values from the long string, and then write them into a nicely formatted log file, that will place each numerical value into it's own column? I've learned about the string format codes from Alan's book (page 32) but I do not know where to insert the formatting operation. Nor do I understand the best way to slice up the string and then operate on the slices. Alans shows an exaple that I'd like to apply that I think will give me the format I need - but I dont know where or how to apply it to the 20 number sclices from the string. The format is this: say for the value of 120. '%8.2f' % 120 Here is an example of what I'm trying to do: 1) read single long telemetry string from serial line (using pyserial module) 2) slice string up into seperate segments such as 120, 213, OFT, -8, -311, OCI,etc. Discard all of the non-number segments and keep the numbers. 3) append the new telemetry slices into a new row in the log file, using string foramtting conventions - so that the log file generates even columns even though the number of places and sign values in the telemetry string vary. example target log file: A B C D E 120 -130 -20 30 45 -111 122 32 121 231 3 32 76 -2 -432 Any advice most welcome - and thanks much again to the group for the help a couple of months back. Cheers, Bill __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From clickron@webtv.net Thu Jan 23 16:35:02 2003 From: clickron@webtv.net (Ron A) Date: Thu Jan 23 16:35:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] files question Message-ID: <4495-3E305FC8-1767@storefull-2133.public.lawson.webtv.net> This keeps adding to the list each time run it. This is what I get [['1', '2', '3'], ['one', 'two', 'three']] [['1', '2', '3', ''], ['one', 'two', 'three', '']] [['1', '2', '3', '', ''], ['one', 'two', 'three', '', '']] I've been playing with it and it's driving me nuts. I'm sure there are better ways to do this, but I gotta know what I've done wrong. Any help is appreciated. hold =3D [] import string =A0 # OPEN AND READ A FILE def mylist(): =A0=A0=A0 data =3D open('testing.txt', 'r') =A0=A0=A0 while 1: =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 read_me =3D data.readline() =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 if read_me =3D=3D '': =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 break =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 no_n =3D read_me[:-1] =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 split_me =3D string.split(no_n, '\t') =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 hold.append(split_me) =A0=A0=A0 print hold =A0=A0=A0 data.close() =A0 # WRITE BACK TO FILE def saveme(): =A0=A0=A0 data =3D open('testing.txt', 'w') =A0=A0=A0 for x in range(len(hold)): =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 hold[x].append('\n') =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 join_up =3D string.join(hold[x], '\t') =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 data.write(join_up) =A0=A0=A0 data.close =A0 mylist() saveme() Ron A=A0 From drewp@bigasterisk.com Thu Jan 23 17:09:24 2003 From: drewp@bigasterisk.com (Drew Perttula) Date: Thu Jan 23 17:09:24 2003 Subject: [Tutor] files question In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:34:00 EST." <4495-3E305FC8-1767@storefull-2133.public.lawson.webtv.net> Message-ID: <200301232207.h0NM7es10991@bang.houseoflove> > This keeps adding to the list each time run it. This is what I get > = > [['1', '2', '3'], ['one', 'two', 'three']] > [['1', '2', '3', ''], ['one', 'two', 'three', '']] > [['1', '2', '3', '', ''], ['one', 'two', 'three', '', '']] > = > # WRITE BACK TO FILE > def saveme(): > =A0=A0=A0 data =3D open('testing.txt', 'w') > =A0=A0=A0 for x in range(len(hold)): ---> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 hold[x].append('\n') > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 join_up =3D string.join(hold[x], '\t') > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 data.write(join_up) > =A0=A0=A0 data.close() The indicated line is adding the newline to the list, which means it'll get a tab to "separate" it from the previous list elements. Instead, remove the indicated line and make the next one something like: join_up =3D string.join(hold[x], '\t')+"\n" Also, I fixed "data.close" (get the close method and do nothing with it- a legal no-op) to "data.close()" (call the close method), although that won't affect the behavior of this little program. -Drew From Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de Thu Jan 23 17:30:01 2003 From: Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael Janssen) Date: Thu Jan 23 17:30:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] files question In-Reply-To: <4495-3E305FC8-1767@storefull-2133.public.lawson.webtv.net> Message-ID: Hello , i've copied and pasted Ron's code, but it doesn't compile, because the indentation whitespaces arn't spaces nor tabs. It's character number 160. Does anyone know where this characters come from? Ron, could you supply code with real spaces (On a sidenote: you trigger spamassassin's MIME_EXCESSIVE_QP test doe to exessive Quoted-Printable with mails like this)? And also the initially content of testing.txt? On first sight i guess you should say join_up = string.join(hold[x], '\t') join_up = join_up + "\n" # you can do this in one step.. instead of: hold[x].append('\n') # --> ["1","2","3","\n"] join_up = string.join(hold[x], '\t') # --> "1\t2\t3\t\n" did you see what happens? Michael From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Thu Jan 23 17:58:14 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Thu Jan 23 17:58:14 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Article/Code/Python vs. Rebol [defending Perl] In-Reply-To: <20030123190040.GB24149@johnsons-web.com> Message-ID: [warning: I'm defending Perl in this article. Skip if you have a weak stomach for typeglobs. *grin*] On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Tim Johnson wrote: > Hello All: I've written two "columns" for a local 'webzine': > It's at > http://www.frozen-north-linuxonline.com/ > > One column is on mailing lists and my part of > it is under "Tim's Byte's". > > Python (and rebol) is mentioned there. Hi Tim, Small corrections: the Perl version of the code needs to make sure '$Var2' is capitalized. This is actually more serious than it looks because if we don't 'use strict', Perl will blissfully use 'undef' as a value for '$VAR2'. Also, the Perl code needs to run in a loop to match the behavior of the Rebol and Python code. I have to take exception on the comment: """ According to the perl programmers that submitted the code, this really can't be done in perl. The best that can be done is an anonymous' function. But this is not meant to "show up" perl. Rebol really sucks at regular expressions and regular expressins are perl's forte. We really should do a Code Corner on regular expressions """ This is not correct at all: there IS a perfectly good way to do it in Perl. ### use strict; for my $i(1..5) { $main::{"h$i"} = sub { $_ = shift @_; print("$_"); }; } h1("hello"); h2("world"); ### It's ugly, but it does work. Whoever you talked to about Perl may need to review their material. *cough* Language comparisons are interesting, but not useful if they misrepresent the languages they compare. If you do more langauge comparisons involving Perl, make sure you talk to folks like the people from perlmonks. http://perlmonks.com/ Ok, enough Perl apologizing; back to Python. *grin* Hope this helps! From clickron@webtv.net Thu Jan 23 18:36:01 2003 From: clickron@webtv.net (Ron A) Date: Thu Jan 23 18:36:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] files question - thanks Message-ID: <23753-3E3078E5-3090@storefull-2137.public.lawson.webtv.net> It works!!! I knew it had to be something that would be obvious to you guys. Thanks for the help. I can sleep easy tonight. Ron A From Don Arnold" Message-ID: <024501c2c343$d1dc5c20$fa12ba3f@defaultcomp> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Gillespie" To: Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 3:14 PM Subject: [Tutor] How best to create a sharp telemetry log file - from one long string of teletry? > Hi Folks, > > I want to say thanks to the group for some help I recieved a few months > ago in writing a simple GUI in tkinter. The finished gui source code as > well as some screen shots of what it looks like is available here: > http://www.noao.edu/noao/staff/gillespie/projects/oftc-gui-software-demo.htm l > > Now I'm trying to write a nicely formatted log file out of a single > string of telemtry that I read of a serial line. > > The string had 40 different values - numbers such a "120", and titles > sucs as "OFT" There are 40 of these seperated by white space. > > What is the best way to extract just the numerical values from the long > string, and then write them into a nicely formatted log file, that will > place each numerical value into it's own column? > Almost guaranteed to not be the 'best' way, but maybe something like this would work? inputStr = '12 abc -12.3 c d 14.7 -45 qw 34dkdk 92' numList = [] formatList = [] for item in inputStr.split(): try: if str(item).find('.') > -1: numList.append(float(item)) formatList.append('%10.2f ') else: numList.append((int(item))) formatList.append('%10d ') except: pass resultStr = ''.join(formatList) % tuple(numList) print resultStr >>> 12 -12.30 14.70 -45 92 HTH, Don From dman@dman.ddts.net Thu Jan 23 22:41:48 2003 From: dman@dman.ddts.net (Derrick 'dman' Hudson) Date: Thu Jan 23 22:41:48 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: Splitting up the input In-Reply-To: References: <20030123150827.GA27184@dman.ddts.net> Message-ID: <20030124034004.GA2297@dman.ddts.net> --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jan 23, 2003 at 08:11:58AM -0800, Danny Yoo wrote: | On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Derrick 'dman' Hudson wrote: | > On Thu, Jan 23, 2003 at 02:22:15PM -0000, Deirdre Hackett wrote: | I | > | want to read in infromation from the serial port. The probem is i=20 | > | can take i the whole line but only want to read it in in lumps of | > | 9 characters. | > | > | As in, I want to read the first 9 characters and put that into X, | > | then read in the next 9 characters and put that into Y... | > | > There are a couple of ways to do that with varying tradeoffs : | > | > (assume 'f' is a file object referring to the serial port; if you use | > windows I can't help with getting that object) | > | > line =3D f.readline() | > X =3D line[:9] | > Y =3D line[9:18] | It might be a better idea to avoid readline() on a "binary" stream, since | there's a chance that there won't be any newlines in the file. I agree here. It all depends on the data itself. On my last co-op I had to write a daemon to read SMDR log info from the serial port. SMDR is the log format the Lucent phone switch generated. It was a plain-text format suitable to feed directly into a line printer (80 character lines, new header every 66 lines). Instead of spewing pages of hard-copy logs on the floor, I wrote a daemon to read the data (using readline() since it was ASCII) and split it up into the columns for insertion into a database. That text happened to fall into a strict columnar layout, so "extract 9 characters, then another 9 characters" can be sensible even for text data. If you are reading a binary data stream, however, I agree that using read() directly is better. | > This will fail (with an IndexError) if the line is too short. |=20 | No, the slicing above should not fail. For example, Oops, my bad. I was assuming (without testing) that it would fail the same as indexing does. The non-failure might really be a failure in disguise if you don't ever want to get the empty string. Never forget to over-check the validity of the input! | This is because something like 'line[20:100]' asks Python: "Give me a | string containing all the characters between indices 20 and 100". But | there are no characters that span, so we get back the empty string. | (It's analogous to the "vacuously true" sort of situation that | mathematicians run into every so often.) It's reasonable behavior, IMO, and in many cases is probably much nicer than an exception. =20 -D --=20 Do not pay attention to every word people say, or you may hear your servant cursing you -- for you know in your heart that many times you yourself have cursed others. Ecclesiastes 7:21-22 =20 http://dman.ddts.net/~dman/ --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj4wtZQACgkQO8l8XBKTpRRz7gCfb7aomcv77wVoNgz4STNttnE3 jgYAnA3a4I7DvYRBYSIh7vPo0MyBCkgz =gxLN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24-- From gus.tabares@verizon.net Thu Jan 23 22:46:48 2003 From: gus.tabares@verizon.net (Gus Tabares) Date: Thu Jan 23 22:46:48 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Renaming files Message-ID: <1043380228.22416.4.camel@blackbetty> Hello, I'm trying to rename files that have endings as such: blah.mp3.bunchofchars . I'm trying to strip off the extra chars and just have *.mp3. The files were fed into a list via the os.listdir() function. The searching I've done so far has come up empty. Should I be using the string module for something like this or is this a simple slice operation I'm missing? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Gus From johnca@ourpla.net Fri Jan 24 00:26:02 2003 From: johnca@ourpla.net (John Abbe) Date: Fri Jan 24 00:26:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Objectifying code Message-ID: Okay, i've read the syntax for coding objects in Python, but i'm new to using objects, and looking for your support on how to put them into use. If you'd like to help, please take a look at my GroupOwnedDatabase and suggest some ways of object-ifying it (it will grow, and want some kind of modularization), and/or reading that might help me learn how to do this. Thanks! Life, John -- All you /\/\ John Abbe "If you don't like the news, need \ / CatHerder go out and make some of your own." is... \/ http://ourpla.net/john/ --Wes Nisker From lumbricus@gmx.net Fri Jan 24 04:20:02 2003 From: lumbricus@gmx.net (lumbricus@gmx.net) Date: Fri Jan 24 04:20:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Renaming files References: <1043380228.22416.4.camel@blackbetty> Message-ID: <9179.1043399925@www1.gmx.net> Hi! > Hello, > > I'm trying to rename files that have endings as such: > blah.mp3.bunchofchars . I'm trying to strip off the extra chars and just strip() os.path.basename() os.rename() etc. > Thanks, > Gus Greetings,J"o! -- sigfault +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen! From magnus@thinkware.se Fri Jan 24 05:15:01 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Fri Jan 24 05:15:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Renaming files In-Reply-To: <1043380228.22416.4.camel@blackbetty> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030124103434.02cb2bf0@www.thinkware.se> At 22:50 2003-01-23 -0500, Gus Tabares wrote: > I'm trying to rename files that have endings as such: >blah.mp3.bunchofchars . I'm trying to strip off the extra chars and just >have *.mp3. The files were fed into a list via the os.listdir() >function. The searching I've done so far has come up empty. Should I be >using the string module for something like this or is this a simple >slice operation I'm missing? Any help is greatly appreciated. You can certainly use os.rename as J"o suggested, but I don't know what he wants .strip for, it removes whitespace, and os.path.basename strips off the part of a path that precedes a file name, and you don't get that from os.listdir, so that's not very useful here either. On the other hand, os.path.splitext *might* be right... >>> import os >>> help(os.path.splitext) Help on function splitext in module ntpath: splitext(p) Split the extension from a pathname. Extension is everything from the last dot to the end. Return (root, ext), either part may be empty. It depends a little on whether we know that there are stuff after .mp3 or not. If the a file might actually end with '.mp3', we don't want *that* extension removed. Also, if there are dots in the string *after* '.mp3.' we still want ALL of it removed. I'd feel safer looking explicitly for .mp3 in the name in his case. Let's experiment a bit... >>> name = "blah.mp3.bunchofchars" >>> end = '.mp3' >>> name.find(end) 4 >>> len(end) 4 >>> #Hm... >>> print name[:name.find(end)+len(end)] blah.mp3 >>> for name in ['blaha.mp3', 'sdffg.mp3.sdf', 'not.an.mp.3', 'x.mp3.x.y']: ... print "Find trick", name[:name.find(end)+len(end)] ... print "Splitext", os.path.splitext(name)[0] ... Find trick blaha.mp3 Splitext blaha Find trick sdffg.mp3 Splitext sdffg.mp3 Find trick not Splitext not.an.mp Find trick x.mp3 Splitext x.mp3.x So: Find trick blaha.mp3 Splitext blaha In this case os.path.splitext removed .mp3. Bad! Find trick sdffg.mp3 Splitext sdffg.mp3 Both ok. Find trick not Splitext not.an.mp Both messed up files that don't contain .mp3 at all. :( Find trick x.mp3 Splitext x.mp3.x os.path.splitext failed here too... Hm... It seems the find version is more robust, but it will just return the first three characters if there is no '.mp3' in the file name. If we got the data from "os.listdir('*.mp3*') I guess that's ok, but if we want both belt and suspenders we might add a check for that. >>> for name in ['blaha.mp3', 'sdffg.mp3.sdf', 'not.an.mp.3', 'x.mp3.x.y']: ... newName = name[:name.find(end)+len(end)] ... if newName.endswith('.mp3'): ... print "Ok, put this in os.rename:", newName ... else: ... print "No, I don't like this name:", newName ... Ok, put this in os.rename: blaha.mp3 Ok, put this in os.rename: sdffg.mp3 No, I don't like this name: not Ok, put this in os.rename: x.mp3 The newName.endswith('.mp3') check seems to fit our purposes very well. If we really feel that os.listdir SHOULD only have given us file names containing .mp3, we might want to turn this into an assert: >>> for name in ['blaha.mp3', 'sdffg.mp3.sdf', 'not.an.mp.3', 'x.mp3.x.y']: ... newName = name[:name.find(end)+len(end)] ... assert newName.endswith('.mp3') ... print "Ok, put this in os.rename:", newName ... Ok, put this in os.rename: blaha.mp3 Ok, put this in os.rename: sdffg.mp3 Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 3, in ? AssertionError I'm sure you can loop over os.listdir(something) and exchange the print for os.rename(name, newName)... Oh yes, one more thing. This won't work of course: for name in os.listdir('/some/path/to/wherever/*.mp3*'): ... os.rename(name, newName) os.rename won't know what directory you pointed at in os.listdir... Obvious but easy to miss. It's probably easiest to do. os.chdir('/some/path/to/wherever/') for name in os.listdir('*.mp3*'): ... Another option would obviously be to use good old regular expressions. >>> names = "\n".join(['blaha.mp3', 'sdffg.mp3.sdf', 'not.an.mp.3', 'x.mp3.x.y']) >>> import re >>> re.findall(r'(.*\.mp3)', names) ['blaha.mp3', 'sdffg.mp3', 'x.mp3'] -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From =?ISO-8859-1?B?YW50b25tdWhpbiDt4CByYW1ibGVyLnJ1?= Fri Jan 24 06:12:43 2003 From: =?ISO-8859-1?B?YW50b25tdWhpbiDt4CByYW1ibGVyLnJ1?= (=?ISO-8859-1?B?YW50b25tdWhpbiDt4CByYW1ibGVyLnJ1?=) Date: Fri Jan 24 06:12:43 2003 Subject: [Tutor] files question In-Reply-To: <4495-3E305FC8-1767@storefull-2133.public.lawson.webtv.net> References: <4495-3E305FC8-1767@storefull-2133.public.lawson.webtv.net> Message-ID: <14814856832.20030124141019@rambler.ru> Hello Ron, Friday, January 24, 2003, 12:34:00 AM, you wrote: RA> hold =3D [] RA> import string RA> =A0 RA> # OPEN AND READ A FILE RA> def mylist(): RA> =A0=A0=A0 data =3D open('testing.txt', 'r') RA> =A0=A0=A0 while 1: RA> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 read_me =3D data.readline() RA> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 if read_me =3D=3D '': RA> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 break RA> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 no_n =3D read_me[:-1] RA> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 split_me =3D string.split(no_n, '\t') RA> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 hold.append(split_me) RA> =A0=A0=A0 print hold RA> =A0=A0=A0 data.close() RA> =A0 Maybe, this function could be improved: for read_me in open(testing.txt', 'r'): if read_me =3D=3D '': break And if you use empty line to mark end of a file, you can get rid of it: for read_me in open(testing.txt', 'r'): no_n =3D read_me[:-1] etc... This loop will terminate at the end of a file. --=20 Best regards, anton mailto:antonmuhin@rambler.ru From alan.gauld@bt.com Fri Jan 24 06:22:42 2003 From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com) Date: Fri Jan 24 06:22:42 2003 Subject: [Tutor] How best to create a sharp telemetry log file - from one long string of teletry? Message-ID: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E0974DA98@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> Hi Bill, > Now I'm trying to write a nicely formatted log file out of a single > string of telemtry that I read of a serial line. > The string had 40 different values - numbers such a "120", and titles > sucs as "OFT" There are 40 of these seperated by white space. You don't say whether these come in a predetermined sequence that is repeatable. If it is a fixed set then you can use syring slicing to extract the digits: field1 = strng[4:9] #or whateve. Beterr to define these external to the slicing: # field name = (start,length) field1 = (4,5) field2 = (13,3) etc... Then you can slice like: f1 = strng[field1[0]:field1[0]+field1[1]] f1 = int(f1) # if you need them as numbers rather than numeric strings etc > place each numerical value into it's own column? > > I've learned about the string format codes from Alan's book (page 32) Thats the best solution, just define the line format in terms of field specifiers: fmt = "%12s%3d%7d%7s%8.2f\n" Then in a loop create each line output.write(headingStrings) # report header for lines in buffer: getFields() # assume uses slicing as above result = fmt % (f1,f2,f3....) output.write(result) > say for the value of 120. > > '%8.2f' % 120 This will print " 120.00" Is that what you want? If its not a floating pint value a %8d might be better. Finally if the string is non deterministic in its numeric content you might be better using a regular expression and a findall() call to get a list of the strings. Alan g. Author of the Learn to Program website http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ From lumbricus@gmx.net Fri Jan 24 07:11:01 2003 From: lumbricus@gmx.net (lumbricus@gmx.net) Date: Fri Jan 24 07:11:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Renaming files References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030124103434.02cb2bf0@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <25903.1043410214@www1.gmx.net> Hi! > At 22:50 2003-01-23 -0500, Gus Tabares wrote: > > I'm trying to rename files that have endings as such: > >blah.mp3.bunchofchars . I'm trying to strip off the extra chars and just > >have *.mp3. The files were fed into a list via the os.listdir() > >function. The searching I've done so far has come up empty. Should I be > >using the string module for something like this or is this a simple > >slice operation I'm missing? Any help is greatly appreciated. > > You can certainly use os.rename as J"o suggested, but I don't know > what he wants .strip for, it removes whitespace, Errhm - split! I meant split > and os.path.basename > strips off the part of a path that precedes a file name, and you don't Yes, I mixed that up with the Unix-command basename, which can be used to strip off the file-suffix. Thanks and Greets, J"o! -- -- sigfault +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen! From shalehperry@attbi.com Fri Jan 24 10:39:14 2003 From: shalehperry@attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry) Date: Fri Jan 24 10:39:14 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Objectifying code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200301240738.19620.shalehperry@attbi.com> On Thursday 23 January 2003 20:33, John Abbe wrote: > Okay, i've read the syntax for coding objects in Python, but i'm new > to using objects, and looking for your support on how to put them > into use. If you'd like to help, please take a look at my > GroupOwnedDatabase > and suggest some ways of object-ifying it (it will grow, and want > some kind of modularization), and/or reading that might help me learn > how to do this. > > Thanks! Life, > John Dunno, after reading the code I am not but so sure objects are the right=20 solution. There is some disagreement out in the world but I find that objects get m= e one=20 of two things: * joining data with methods to act on it and thereby making maintenance e= asier * hiding implementations to allow more plug and play style code and thus making trying out alternate solutions easier Your PrintPerson seemed the most likely candidate for wrapping into a cla= ss=20 followed by the authentication mechanism. If find that sitting down and=20 writing out the data (nouns) in my code and then defining the actions (ve= rbs)=20 tends to point out places where OO would be nice or convince me that=20 functions are good enough. As a side critique there is a cgi module in Python which implements some = of=20 what you have perhaps you should consider using it instead. From jeff@ccvcorp.com Fri Jan 24 12:39:34 2003 From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon) Date: Fri Jan 24 12:39:34 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Renaming files References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030124103434.02cb2bf0@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <3E317A0C.6090702@ccvcorp.com> Magnus Lycka wrote: > > [...] If we got the data from "os.listdir('*.mp3*') [...] As a minor correction, os.listdir() won't do wildcard expansion -- the argument to os.listdir() must be an existing directory. If you want to check for files matching a wildcard pattern, then you need to use glob.glob() instead. (Unix calls this wildcard expansion 'globbing', and the module was named after that...) I'm sure that Magnus knows this and just accidentally misspoke (er, mistyped), but figured I'd mention this so that someone trying this code wouldn't be puzzled by the error messages... :) Jeff Shannon Technician/Programmer Credit International From magnus@thinkware.se Fri Jan 24 13:44:02 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Fri Jan 24 13:44:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Objectifying code In-Reply-To: <200301240738.19620.shalehperry@attbi.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030124181208.02cffed8@www.thinkware.se> At 07:38 2003-01-24 -0800, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote: >Dunno, after reading the code I am not but so sure objects are the right >solution. To be honest, I didn't bother reading through the code well enough to understand what it did. This is partly because I'm in a hurry, and partly because it's written in a way that is difficult to read. I would suggest that you use the normal convention of python code, instead of writing something looking like an overgrown bat-file. ;) In other words, use the standard idiom of if __name__ == '__main__': main() in the end, make a main() function that captures the main abstractions of the program, so that people can read that function (which is hopefully note more than a screenful) and understand what it's all about. You don't need classes for this, you can use well named functions. I'm sure that it's reasonable to divide most of the main code in chunks that logacally form an abstraction, or a step in your processing if you like. Hopefully there won't be too many vaiables that go beyond the boundries of these blocks. If there aren't terribly many shared variables, it's not very difficult to make these chunks into separate functions. Actually, if there are a lot of shared data, that might be a reason to use one or several classes instead, since class instances can remember their data (in attributes) between method calls, but remember that a class should capture one abstraction. I would also suggest that you remove all the big strings from the main body of the code. They completely mess up the readability that python normally provides. Let's have a look at a piece of code: elif 'edit' in Args: # Edit a record for entry in lankaDB: if entry['firstname'] + entry['lastname'] == Args['edit']: print """

Editing %s %s's record

First name:
Last name:
Phone:
E-mail:
Address: %s
Comments: %s
Password: (must match old password)

""" % (entry['firstname'], entry['lastname'], cgiaddr, entry['firstname'], entry['lastname'], entry['firstname'], entry['lastname'], entry['phone'], entry['email'], entry['address'], entry['comments']) print """

Or, change %s %s's password: """ % (entry['firstname'], entry['lastname'], cgiaddr, entry['firstname'], entry['lastname']) print """

Or, delete: """ % (cgiaddr, entry['firstname'], entry['lastname'], entry['firstname'], entry['lastname']) Here, it's completely hopeless to follow the flow of the code. At least for me. Has the if statement ended yet? The for-loop? I don't know, I can't make myself try to follow this without giving it an overhaul. This big string I'd make into a global variable. Not because it's so global in nature, but because it's a small program and I want this big chunk of HTML away from the flow of the code. Maybe I'd even put it in a separate file and import it? recordEditForm = """

Editing %(firstname)s %)(lastname)s's record

Or, change %(firstname)s %(lastname)s's password:

Or, delete: """ The only thing left in the part of the program where I cut out this section would be: elif 'edit' in Args: # Edit a record for entry in lankaDB: if entry['firstname'] + entry['lastname'] == Args['edit']: print recordEditForm % (entry + {'cgiaddr': cgiaddr}) This is easier to read, isn't it? We don't have to worry about HTML form layout and program flow at the same time. The indentation is helpful in suggesting a structure, and the use of string % dict instead of string % tuple both cleans up the print statement and makes it much easier to modify and review the HTML forms. -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From calveg@accessus.net Sat Jan 25 16:00:04 2003 From: calveg@accessus.net (Gary Calvert) Date: Sat Jan 25 16:00:04 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Very basic help Message-ID: <000101c2c4b4$9f8ab420$b789cecf@VAIO> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C2C482.54F04420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am an IT student that is taking a Python programming class and I am = having some difficulty. This class is a math based programming class that = requires all math problems to be solved in Python. My last assignment requires writing a module and running all of the calculations in the module. I = have attached the code that I have written can anyone help. This is very = basic, I am just beginning the class. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C2C482.54F04420 Content-Type: text/plain; name="overtimemod.py" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="overtimemod.py" #overtime module def wage(x,y): return x * y def overtime(x,y): return x * y def gross(x,y): return x + y ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C2C482.54F04420 Content-Type: text/plain; name="9-20.py" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="9-20.py" #Problem 9-20 import overtimemod rate = float(input("Enter your hourly wage\n")) time = float(input("Enter number of hours straight time worked\n")) overtime = float(input("Enter number of over time hours worked\n")) multiplier = float(input("Enter your over time multiplier\n")) x = overtime(rate,multiplier) y = gross(overtime,rate) z = wage(time,rate) print "Your straight wage is",z print "Your overtime is",x print "Your gross pay is",y ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C2C482.54F04420-- From shalehperry@attbi.com Sat Jan 25 17:28:05 2003 From: shalehperry@attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry) Date: Sat Jan 25 17:28:05 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Very basic help In-Reply-To: <000101c2c4b4$9f8ab420$b789cecf@VAIO> References: <000101c2c4b4$9f8ab420$b789cecf@VAIO> Message-ID: <200301251427.05860.shalehperry@attbi.com> On Saturday 25 January 2003 12:59, Gary Calvert wrote: > I am an IT student that is taking a Python programming class and I am > having some difficulty. This class is a math based programming class t= hat > requires all math problems to be solved in Python. My last assignment > requires writing a module and running all of the calculations in the > module. I have attached the code that I have written can anyone help.=20 > This is very basic, I am just beginning the class. when asking for help on the list it is good form to tell us what you need= help=20 with. Is there a syntax issue? Odd exception you were not expecting? O= r=20 are you just unhappy with a piece of code and want a better solution? From python@jaydorsey.com Sat Jan 25 17:41:02 2003 From: python@jaydorsey.com (Jay Dorsey) Date: Sat Jan 25 17:41:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Very basic help In-Reply-To: <000101c2c4b4$9f8ab420$b789cecf@VAIO> References: <000101c2c4b4$9f8ab420$b789cecf@VAIO> Message-ID: <3E331259.5040707@jaydorsey.com> The first thing I see you need to fix is the references to your imported functions from the overtimemod module. In your 9-20.py file, since you imported overtimemod (instead of "from overtimemod import *" - which you wouldn't want to do now anyways since you call one of your variables the same name as one of the functions from yoru module - "overtime"), you need to prefix all of your function calls with the name of the module (overtimemod.) See below for an example. You may want to check your functions as well - I ran the program after I made the changes below, but the results didn't look correct (I'm no math major though). Hope this helps, jay Gary Calvert wrote: >#Problem 9-20 >import overtimemod >rate = float(input("Enter your hourly wage\n")) >time = float(input("Enter number of hours straight time worked\n")) >overtime = float(input("Enter number of over time hours worked\n")) >multiplier = float(input("Enter your over time multiplier\n")) > >x = overtimemod.overtime(rate,multiplier) >y = overtimemod.gross(overtime,rate) >z = overtimemod.wage(time,rate) >print "Your straight wage is",z >print "Your overtime is",x >print "Your gross pay is",y > > From idiot1@netzero.net Sun Jan 26 02:14:02 2003 From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey) Date: Sun Jan 26 02:14:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] making money Message-ID: <3E338A78.9090107@netzero.net> ok, we all like a joke. I have an idea that will help me make money. I will a modify an existing script just a bit. It will reference a fortunecookie file, and a banner rotation file. It will output a webpage with a tasteful portrait of Alfred E Newmann in frame, with a cracked quote under it. Above this will be a banner. Want a new cookie? Click reload, up comes another, and a new banner. Boy, will this get alot of banner impressions! We could do this with assorted images of Monty Python and quotes from the show, whatever, it lends itself to adaptation. Anyone want to talk about this sillyness a little? -- end Respectfully, Kirk D Bailey Owner HowlerMonkey Email Services Company: http://www.howlermonkey.net/ Inventor of TinyList MLM list server: http://www.tinylist.org/ Consulting Lunatic: http://www.sacredelectron.org/ Remember: it is an ill wind that blows no minds. Fnord. From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Sun Jan 26 14:59:03 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Sun Jan 26 14:59:03 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Very basic help [we don't do homework / module usage] In-Reply-To: <000101c2c4b4$9f8ab420$b789cecf@VAIO> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, Gary Calvert wrote: > I am an IT student that is taking a Python programming class and I am > having some difficulty. This class is a math based programming class > that requires all math problems to be solved in Python. > > My last assignment requires writing a module and running all of the > calculations in the module. I have attached the code that I have > written can anyone help. Hi Gary, This is a somewhat sensitive issue for us: we are not supposed to help with homework assignments. At the very least, you should not just send us code on us, and ask us for help --- it makes it sound like you just want us to do your homework! Forgive me for stating it that bluntly. You may not have implied us to do your work in your question, but without telling us more, it's possible for us to assume the worse. You need to tell us approximately where you are getting stuck, and what parts appear to be working for you, what error messages you've gotten, and what you suspect might be the problem. These questions are not useless: they are very crucial for us since we'll have a better idea of what's going on in your head. We'll still be limited to what we can help you with, but at least we'll be better equipped to point you toward resources that directly address your questions, rather than just spout something generic that might be less helpful for you. In the absence of information, I've got to spout. I did take a look at your code; it looks fairly reasonable. Were you having problems with the 'import' of your module, or with the use of the functions in the module? What have you read about modules so far? There a section in Mark Pilgrim's "Dive into Python" tutorial that might help you: http://diveintopython.org/fileinfo_fromimport.html as well as a chapter about modules in the Official Python Tutorial: http://www.python.org/doc/tut/node8.html Both may be useful in showing you how to use modules. If you run into any problems, or if there's points which seem turgid and confused, please feel free to ask questions on Python-tutor; we'd be happy to chat and try to clear the air. From maillist@kuwest.de Sun Jan 26 15:02:00 2003 From: maillist@kuwest.de (Jens Kubieziel) Date: Sun Jan 26 15:02:00 2003 Subject: [Tutor] reading 2nd line Message-ID: <20030126174922.GB1163@kubieziel.de> Hi, I have here several text files, where I want to read second line of each file and no idea how to do it. Those files are csv-files exported from MS Excel and have following format: date,open,high,low,close,sales 01-01-03,11.23,11.24,10.66,10.87,678537 On a shell I would write: head -n 2 $FILE | tail -n 1 Can you give me a hint on this? If I read those line, I want to read out the close price (10.87). My current solution looks like: >>> line = "01-01-03,11.23,11.24,10.66,10.87,678537" >>> single = line.split(",") >>> print single[4] Is there a better solution? -- Jens Kubieziel mailto:jens@kubieziel.de Adultery: Putting yourself in someone else's position. From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Sun Jan 26 15:49:02 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Sun Jan 26 15:49:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] reading 2nd line In-Reply-To: <20030126174922.GB1163@kubieziel.de> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Jan 2003, Jens Kubieziel wrote: > I have here several text files, where I want to read second line of each > file and no idea how to do it. Those files are csv-files exported from > MS Excel and have following format: > > date,open,high,low,close,sales > 01-01-03,11.23,11.24,10.66,10.87,678537 > > On a shell I would write: > head -n 2 $FILE | tail -n 1 > > Can you give me a hint on this? Hi Jens, Yes, you may want to look at the function 'open()', which gives us a file object, as well as the 'readline()' method of a file object: http://www.python.org/doc/lib/built-in-funcs.html#l2h-44 http://www.python.org/doc/lib/bltin-file-objects.html#l2h-165 These two tools should allow you to get the second line of a file. > If I read those line, I want to read out the close price (10.87). My > current solution looks like: > > >>> line = "01-01-03,11.23,11.24,10.66,10.87,678537" > >>> single = line.split(",") > >>> print single[4] > > Is there a better solution? For simple files, string splitting will work. However, there is a specialized third-party Python module that does CSV files: http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/csv/ which handles subtleties like having commas within fields; you may want to use this in favor of simple string splitting. Good luck to you! From magnus@thinkware.se Sun Jan 26 16:44:01 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Sun Jan 26 16:44:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Very basic help In-Reply-To: <000101c2c4b4$9f8ab420$b789cecf@VAIO> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030126041401.02c4bac0@www.thinkware.se> At 14:59 2003-01-25 -0600, Gary Calvert wrote: >9-20.py Hi Gary. Python files can be loaded into other python programs as modules as you know. This requires that the main part of the file name (the part before .py) can be a python identifier. 9-20 is a numerical expression with the value -11. so it's not a permitted name in python. A python identifier can only contain A-Z, a-z, 0-9 and _, and it can't begin with a digit. NineToTwenty.py or _9to20.py etc will do, but 9-20.py can't be used as a module. Maybe you didn't intend that, but I still think it is a good practice to use file names that are legal identifiers for all python source code. Who knows, you might be in the python interpreter and want to import your file to test it interactively. Apart from the restrictions concerning character set, and initial digit, you can't use reserved names such as 'if', 'for' and 'class' as module (or variable) names. -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From magnus@thinkware.se Sun Jan 26 16:51:01 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Sun Jan 26 16:51:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] reading 2nd line In-Reply-To: References: <20030126174922.GB1163@kubieziel.de> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030126224247.02c6bcf0@www.thinkware.se> At 12:48 2003-01-26 -0800, Danny Yoo wrote: >Yes, you may want to look at the function 'open()' Or "file()" which is now the preferred name. >For simple files, string splitting will work. However, there is a >specialized third-party Python module that does CSV files: > > http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/csv/ Actually, there are at least three: ASC, CSV and DSV. The others can be found at: http://tratt.net/laurie/python/asv/ and http://python-dsv.sf.net CSV is fastest though, being implemented in C. Might be the simplest to use as well. -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From ahimsa@onetel.net.uk Sun Jan 26 17:00:02 2003 From: ahimsa@onetel.net.uk (ahimsa) Date: Sun Jan 26 17:00:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] rockpaperscissors Message-ID: <1043618266.20752.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey Gang So many of you were very helpful last time around I wanted to pick your brains on the following: I have enclosed some code for the game 'Rock, Paper, Scissors'. The idea for doing this in Python was drawn from Tim Wilson's lessons for the Henry Sibley school ( http://isd197.org/sibley/cs/icp/ ), but I have run aground on a couple of aspects: 1. I'm sure that there must be a more elegant way of writing this code, so any suggestions would be useful, if only for aesthetic purposes. 2. I was wanting to include a way of counting the number of wins for the computer and for the user. This might follow on 'naturally' from a more elegant code lay-out, but I've tried as many ways as I can think of but can't figure a way to get that in. FWIW, I must say that playing around with Python is *great* fun - so unless someone really objects or thinks it inappropriate (in which case, please tell me) I'd like to continue to forward odd bits of programming to this list for input and advice, suggestions, and so on. Much obliged. Anyway, here's the code (the type-setting will probably be messed up). All the best Andrew %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%: begin # Rock, Paper, Scissors: print "Rock, Paper, Scissors" # Initialisation phase: import random # module import to randomise computer's # selection counter = 0 # game counter def item( a ): # locally defined function to convert if a == 1: # random.randrange( ) into user-friendly words return "Rock" elif a == 2: return "Paper" elif a == 3: return "Scissors" def results( b, c ): # locally defined function to output results if b == c: # relative to computer's selection return "That's a tie" elif ( b == "Rock" and c == "Paper" ): return "%s covers %s. Computer wins." % ( c, b ) elif ( b == "Rock" and c == "Scissors" ): return "%s breaks %s. You win." % ( b, c ) elif ( b == "Paper" and c == "Rock" ): return "%s covers %s. You win." % ( b, c ) elif ( b == "Paper" and c == "Scissors" ): return "%s cut %s. Computer wins." % ( c, b ) elif ( b == "Scissors" and c == "Rock" ): return "%s breaks %s. Computer wins." % ( c, b ) elif ( b == "Scissors" and c == "Paper" ): return "%s cut %s. You win." % ( b, c ) # Processing phase: while counter < 3: # only want to run the game three times x = random.randrange( 1, 4 ) print print "Rock (1), Paper (2), or Scissors (3)" print y = int( raw_input( "Make a selection: " ) ) # invite user's input print "You selected %s and the Computer selected %s" % (item( y ), item( x ) ) print results( item( y ), item( x )) # output results counter += 1 # move counter up 1 'click' print "Hit ENTER to return to the prompt" # basic way of exiting program %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%: end -- ________________________%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%____________________________ Proudly sent using Ximian Evolution 1.2.1 on a Linux Red Hat 8.0 box. From shalehperry@attbi.com Sun Jan 26 18:04:04 2003 From: shalehperry@attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry) Date: Sun Jan 26 18:04:04 2003 Subject: [Tutor] rockpaperscissors In-Reply-To: <1043618266.20752.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1043618266.20752.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200301261503.27257.shalehperry@attbi.com> On Sunday 26 January 2003 13:59, ahimsa wrote: FYI, this game is also referred to as "ro sham bo" (various spellings). > > 1. I'm sure that there must be a more elegant way of writing this code, > so any suggestions would be useful, if only for aesthetic purposes. > 2. I was wanting to include a way of counting the number of wins for th= e > computer and for the user. This might follow on 'naturally' from a more > elegant code lay-out, but I've tried as many ways as I can think of but > can't figure a way to get that in. > what you have here is a classic programming "mistake". You are combining= two=20 problems in one function and as a result have loss your flexibility. The function results() both determines who wins *AND* is responsible for=20 reporting this data. Here is where you went wrong. If you had separated= =20 this the print step would be rather simple. Splitting the function would= =20 also let you reimplement this program as a server for a distributed netwo= rk=20 play version. What you find is that splitting functions so they only do one thing (same= with=20 classes and their methods) you can mix and match functions for bigger and= =20 better programs. I would have made a "who won" function and a separate "print output funct= ion". The print output is much simpler because it just has to say "noun verb no= un, X=20 wins over Y". You could also store the strings in a dictionary/list to make the lookup = a=20 little cleaner. objects[] =3D (("paper", "covers"), ("rock", "breaks"), ("scissors", "cut= ")) This is very common in games where the object list can grow and grow like= role=20 playing games. > FWIW, I must say that playing around with Python is *great* fun - so > unless someone really objects or thinks it inappropriate (in which case= , > please tell me) I'd like to continue to forward odd bits of programming > to this list for input and advice, suggestions, and so on. That is why this list exists. However please send the code as an attachm= ent=20 that way various people's email programs do not reformat or munge the cod= e. =20 Many people read email in a mailer which uses TTF fonts and this makes co= de=20 reading difficult because the lines do not line up how they would in a fi= xed=20 point code editor. Since Python is indentation sensitive this is even more important. From magnus@thinkware.se Sun Jan 26 18:08:02 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Sun Jan 26 18:08:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] rockpaperscissors In-Reply-To: <1043618266.20752.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030126234945.02bf8a28@www.thinkware.se> At 21:59 2003-01-26 +0000, ahimsa wrote: >while counter < 3: # only want to run the game three times ... > counter += 1 # move counter up 1 'click' Here it fits with... numberOfTries = 3 for counter in range(numberOfTries): > y = int( raw_input( "Make a selection: " ) ) # invite user's input You could do: y = input("Make a selection: ")) But you have a bit more control with raw_input and int. For the algorithm, this little session might give some ideas: >>> winners = {'scissors': 'rock', 'paper': 'scissors', 'rock': 'paper'} >>> def whoWon(a, b): ... if winners[a] == b: ... print b, "wins over", a ... elif winners[b] == a: ... print a, "wins over", b ... else: ... print "A draw, try again" ... >>> whoWon('rock', 'scissors') rock wins over scissors >>> whoWon('rock', 'paper') paper wins over rock >>> whoWon('rock', 'rock') A draw, try again Maybe whoWon should instead take a tuple of (name, choice)? -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From GREENDAY31087@aol.com Sun Jan 26 20:06:02 2003 From: GREENDAY31087@aol.com (GREENDAY31087@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 26 20:06:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] why wont this code run? Message-ID: <110.1f259c3f.2b65dfc1@aol.com> --part1_110.1f259c3f.2b65dfc1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit class Map: def __init__(self): self.__grid={} # Don't assume global startroom def addRoom(self, room, x, y): if self.__grid.has_key((x,y)): raise KeyError, "Location occupied" self.__grid[(x, y)] = room def getRoom(self, x, y): return self.__grid[(x, y)] def getLocation(self, room): for coord, aRoom in self.__grid.items(): if room == aRoom: return coord raise KeyError class Room: def __init__(self, map, x=0, y=0): self.__map = map map.addRoom(self, x, y) def dig(direction): --part1_110.1f259c3f.2b65dfc1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit class Map:
         def __init__(self):
             self.__grid={} # Don't assume global startroom
         def addRoom(self, room, x, y):
             if self.__grid.has_key((x,y)):
                 raise KeyError, "Location occupied"
             self.__grid[(x, y)] = room
         def getRoom(self, x, y):
             return self.__grid[(x, y)]
         def getLocation(self, room):
             for coord, aRoom in self.__grid.items():
                 if room == aRoom:
                     return coord
             raise KeyError

    class Room:
         def __init__(self, map, x=0, y=0):
             self.__map = map
             map.addRoom(self, x, y)
         def dig(direction):
--part1_110.1f259c3f.2b65dfc1_boundary-- From Don Arnold" Message-ID: <041d01c2c5a4$17a394a0$a610ba3f@defaultcomp> ----- Original Message ----- From: GREENDAY31087@aol.com To: tutor@python.org Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 7:05 PM Subject: [Tutor] why wont this code run? class Map: def __init__(self): self.__grid={} # Don't assume global startroom def addRoom(self, room, x, y): if self.__grid.has_key((x,y)): raise KeyError, "Location occupied" self.__grid[(x, y)] = room def getRoom(self, x, y): return self.__grid[(x, y)] def getLocation(self, room): for coord, aRoom in self.__grid.items(): if room == aRoom: return coord raise KeyError class Room: def __init__(self, map, x=0, y=0): self.__map = map map.addRoom(self, x, y) def dig(direction): [---- my reply ----] Well, the code won't make it past the parsing stage because Room.dig() is broken: it has no body. Even if you give this method a body of 'pass', you'll still have problems because its first parameter isn't 'self' (or some equivalent). So, change it to: def dig(self, direction): pass and you should be ready to roll. If you run your code now, you shouldn't get any errors. Of course, all you've done at this point is define 2 classes, so you won't see anything going on until you add some driver logic that does something with the classes: if __name__ == '__main__': theMap = Map() room1 = Room(theMap) room2 = Room(theMap,1,1) room3 = Room(theMap,1,2) for somelocation in [room1, room2, room3]: print theMap.getLocation(somelocation) >>> (0, 0) (1, 1) (1, 2) >>> HTH, Don From jjhegde@konark.ncst.ernet.in Mon Jan 27 02:34:01 2003 From: jjhegde@konark.ncst.ernet.in (Jayprasad J. Hegde) Date: Mon Jan 27 02:34:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] reading 2nd line In-Reply-To: <20030126174922.GB1163@kubieziel.de> References: <20030126174922.GB1163@kubieziel.de> Message-ID: <20030127073026.GE278@ncst.ernet.in> --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline hello Jens, On Sun, Jan 26, 2003 at 06:49:22PM +0100, Jens Kubieziel wrote: > I have here several text files, where I want to read second line of each > file and no idea how to do it. Those files are csv-files exported from MS > Excel and have following format: > date,open,high,low,close,sales > 01-01-03,11.23,11.24,10.66,10.87,678537 > Is there a better solution? I have attached a very simple code which can either extract the "close" field directly for the second line, or extract only the second line (you'll have to uncomment the relevant code for that) This would work in for CSV docs in the following manner: cat inputCSVfile | python tp2.py Whether this is a good solution or not would probably depend on its usage. Hope this helps. regards - JJH -- QOTD: If you're looking for trouble, I can offer you a wide selection. (defun JJHdetails () (format t "~&~A~&~A~&~A" "Jayprasad J Hegde, Staff Scientist, KBCS, NCST" "Gulmohar Cross Road 9, Juhu, Mumbai 400049." "tel: +91-22-26201606x373")) --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="tp2.py" import sys REQUIRED_ENTRY = 2 #0,1,2,3,4,5 POSITION_CLOSE = 4 myfile = sys.stdin entries = myfile.read ().splitlines () ### if you want to print only the second line ## then uncomment this line .. and comment the code following it ## print entries [REQUIRED_ENTRY - 1] ## else use this to extract the "close" field directly req = entries [REQUIRED_ENTRY - 1].split (',') print req [POSITION_CLOSE] --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c-- From magnus@thinkware.se Mon Jan 27 04:35:02 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Mon Jan 27 04:35:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] reading 2nd line In-Reply-To: <20030127073026.GE278@ncst.ernet.in> References: <20030126174922.GB1163@kubieziel.de> <20030126174922.GB1163@kubieziel.de> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030127100955.02c05570@www.thinkware.se> At 13:00 2003-01-27 +0530, Jayprasad J. Hegde wrote: >I have attached a very simple code I'd suggest pasting small snippets of code into the mail body instead of making attachments. That makes life easier for most of us. >entries = myfile.read ().splitlines () This means that you read the entire file into a string, and then split it into lines. A more convenient way to do that would be to use myfile.readlines(), but it's still not a very good idea. If we don't want more than the second line, there is no reason to read past that. The file might be big... So I'd do: filename = ... myfile = file(filename) myfile.readline() # Read first line and drop result secondLine = myfile.readline() myfile.close() This will be much faster than to read a big file. Particularly if we work with many files, as in: import glob closePos = 4 # Process close value in second line of all files # with .csv extension in current folder. for fn in glob.glob('*.csv'): f = file(fn) f.readline() line2 = f.readline() process(fn, line2.split(',')[closePos]) f.close() If we have 100 files with 100 lines each, we will now read 200 lines totally, instead of 10,000 lines if we had used .read() or .readlines(). I assume the "process" function needs the file name as well as the close value in this case to figure out what stock it was. -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From magnus@thinkware.se Mon Jan 27 07:50:02 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Mon Jan 27 07:50:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] reading 2nd line In-Reply-To: <20030127122903.GA1086@ncst.ernet.in> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030127100955.02c05570@www.thinkware.se> <20030126174922.GB1163@kubieziel.de> <20030126174922.GB1163@kubieziel.de> <5.1.0.14.0.20030127100955.02c05570@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030127134144.02c23b20@www.thinkware.se> At 17:59 2003-01-27 +0530, Jayprasad J. Hegde wrote: > a question about file (). Has it been introduced from Python 2.3 onwards? No, it's in 2.2 as well. It's really part of the type/class unification. Now you can use type names as constructors. >>> int('5') 5 >>> int(5) 5 >>> float('5') 5.0 >>> file('c:/autoexec.bat') You can also subclass types now: >>> class NonNegInt(int): ... def __init__(self, val): ... if int(val) < 0: ... raise ValueError, 'Negative value!' ... super(int, self).__init__(val) ... >>> print NonNegInt(5) 5 >>> print NonNegInt(-5) Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in ? File "", line 4, in __init__ ValueError: Negative value! >>> print NonNegInt(0) 0 >>> a = NonNegInt(5) >>> print '*' * a ***** -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From alan.gauld@bt.com Mon Jan 27 08:54:01 2003 From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com) Date: Mon Jan 27 08:54:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] rockpaperscissors Message-ID: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E0974DA9D@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> > I have enclosed some code for the game 'Rock, Paper, Scissors'. > 1. I'm sure that there must be a more elegant way of writing > this code, Its not too bad given the size of the problem. You can of course build on all sorts of extra sophistication, but its gardly worth it IMHO. > so any suggestions would be useful, if only for aesthetic purposes. One area that might be more e;egant is to drive the results() function from a data structure: # results is a dictionary of dictionaries outcomes = ["Scissors cuts Paper", "Paper wraps Rock", "Rock smashes Scissors"] winners = ["Drawn game", "Computer won", "You won"] results = { 1: { 2: outcomes[1] + winners[1], 3: outcomes[2] + winners[2] }, 2: { 1: outcomes[1] + winners[2], 3: outcomes[0] + winners[1]}, 3: { 1: outcomes[2] + winners[1], 2: outcomes[0] + winners[2]} } Now your function just becomes a case of looking up the dictionary and printing the result. But its not that much prettier and only saves a tiny bit of maintenance effort. > 2. I was wanting to include a way of counting the number of > wins for the computer and for the user. There are 3 outcomes - Computer Wins, User wins, or draw. You can return that from the return function by making the return value a tuple containing the result code and result string. Represent that with 0,1,2 - which coincidentally(!) are the indices of the winners string list above, making translation easy... Then use a line in the loop like: if result[0] == -1: draw += 1 elif result[0] == 0: computer += 1 else user += 1 HTH, Alan g. Author of the Learn to Program website http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ From alan.gauld@bt.com Mon Jan 27 09:00:03 2003 From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com) Date: Mon Jan 27 09:00:03 2003 Subject: [Tutor] why wont this code run? Message-ID: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E09702369@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2C604.21DB8A80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" What actually happens? Error codes and output are always helpful... -----Original Message----- From: tutor-admin@python.org [mailto:tutor-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of GREENDAY31087@aol.com Sent: 27 January 2003 01:05 To: tutor@python.org Subject: [Tutor] why wont this code run? class Map: def __init__(self): self.__grid={} # Don't assume global startroom def addRoom(self, room, x, y): if self.__grid.has_key((x,y)): raise KeyError, "Location occupied" self.__grid[(x, y)] = room def getRoom(self, x, y): return self.__grid[(x, y)] def getLocation(self, room): for coord, aRoom in self.__grid.items(): if room == aRoom: return coord raise KeyError class Room: def __init__(self, map, x=0, y=0): self.__map = map map.addRoom(self, x, y) def dig(direction): The class TRoom doewsn't align with the class Map. The dig method is undefined. There are only 2 class definitions, you never create instances, so its hard to know what you think the code will do if it were to "run". Alan G. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2C604.21DB8A80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

What actually happens? Error codes and output are always helpful...

-----Original Message-----
From: tutor-admin@python.org [mailto:tutor-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of GREENDAY31087@aol.com
Sent: 27 January 2003 01:05
To: tutor@python.org
Subject: [Tutor] why wont this code run?

class Map:
         def __init__(self):
             self.__grid={} # Don't assume global startroom
         def addRoom(self, room, x, y):
             if self.__grid.has_key((x,y)):
                 raise KeyError, "Location occupied"
             self.__grid[(x, y)] = room
         def getRoom(self, x, y):
             return self.__grid[(x, y)]
         def getLocation(self, room):
             for coord, aRoom in self.__grid.items():
                 if room == aRoom:
                     return coord
             raise KeyError

    class Room:
         def __init__(self, map, x=0, y=0):
             self.__map = map
             map.addRoom(self, x, y)
         def dig(direction):

The class TRoom doewsn't align with the class Map.

The dig method is undefined.

There are only 2 class definitions, you never create instances, so its hard to

know what you think the code will do if it were to "run".

Alan G.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C2C604.21DB8A80-- From Deirdre Hackett" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C2C619.564A7F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi there,=20 Thanks for all the advice the last time. Worked out great! I want to now put my 3 integer values into an array but it will not let = me do data[0] =3D int(x2string) data[1] =3D int(y2string).... etc instead I have to data =3D (int(x2string), int(y2string), int(z2string)) and this is only a tuple in which the size cannot be changed. Can you create an array that you can append values to it. You cannot = append vales to a tuple - its size is static. Not a big deal, but would like to know for the future. Thanks Deirdre =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C2C619.564A7F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi there,

Thanks for all the advice the last = time. Worked out=20 great!

I want to now put my 3 integer values = into an array=20 but it will not let me do

data[0] =3D int(x2string)

data[1] =3D int(y2string).... = etc

instead I have to

data =3D (int(x2string), int(y2string), int(z2string))

and this is only a tuple in which the size cannot be changed.

Can you create an array that you can append values to it. You = cannot append=20 vales to a tuple - its size is static.

Not a big deal, but would like to know for the future.

Thanks

Deirdre

------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C2C619.564A7F00-- From =?ISO-8859-1?B?YW50b25tdWhpbiDt4CByYW1ibGVyLnJ1?= Mon Jan 27 12:13:01 2003 From: =?ISO-8859-1?B?YW50b25tdWhpbiDt4CByYW1ibGVyLnJ1?= (=?ISO-8859-1?B?YW50b25tdWhpbiDt4CByYW1ibGVyLnJ1?=) Date: Mon Jan 27 12:13:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Arrays and tuples In-Reply-To: <006701c2c61a$1915bea0$0400a8c0@egbert> References: <006701c2c61a$1915bea0$0400a8c0@egbert> Message-ID: <18421766819.20030127201141@rambler.ru> Hello Deirdre, Monday, January 27, 2003, 6:32:44 PM, you wrote: DH> Hi there, DH> Thanks for all the advice the last time. Worked out great! DH> I want to now put my 3 integer values into an array but it will not let me do DH> data[0] = int(x2string) DH> data[1] = int(y2string).... etc DH> instead I have to DH> data = (int(x2string), int(y2string), int(z2string)) DH> and this is only a tuple in which the size cannot be changed. DH> Can you create an array that you can append values to it. You cannot append vales to a tuple - its size is static. As I understand your problem, you forgot to define a variable. The code below should work: myArray = {} # Define an array myArray[0] = int("123") .... BTW, it's not an array, but a dictionary. If speed is crucial for your application, glance at arrays from Numeric. -- Best regards, anton mailto:antonmuhin@rambler.ru From churmtom@hotmail.com Mon Jan 27 12:16:00 2003 From: churmtom@hotmail.com (Tom Churm) Date: Mon Jan 27 12:16:00 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Import Statement Differences Message-ID: i'm running python 2.2.2 and i'm very confused because this works: from time import * formattedTimeNow = strftime("%H:%M:%S - %a, %d %b %y", localtime(time()) ) print formattedTimeNow but this results in an error: import time formattedTimeNow = strftime("%H:%M:%S - %a, %d %b %y", localtime(time()) ) print formattedTimeNow ==> NameError: name 'strftime' is not defined what's the difference between the two import statements? --tom _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From ramrom@earthling.net Mon Jan 27 12:21:02 2003 From: ramrom@earthling.net (Bob Gailer) Date: Mon Jan 27 12:21:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Arrays and tuples In-Reply-To: <006701c2c61a$1915bea0$0400a8c0@egbert> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030127101145.02dc2f60@66.28.54.253> --=======7D8E3D26======= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-38A765EE; boundary="=====================_10683001==.ALT" --=====================_10683001==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-38A765EE; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 03:32 PM 1/27/2003 +0000, Deirdre Hackett wrote: >I want to now put my 3 integer values into an array but it will not let me do "will not let me" is woefully uninformative. Please always tell us what happens? Do you get an error? Does the computer hang? Do you get unexpected results? What do you mean by array? What do you want to do with it? Native python does not have arrays in the sense of other languages. It has lists, tuples, dictionaries for storing array-like things. If you want a list, instead of: >>> data = (int(x2string), int(y2string), int(z2string)) do: >>> data = [int(x2string), int(y2string), int(z2string)] or if you want elememt assignment initialize the list: >>> data = [0]*n # where n is the number of elements you want. then you can >>> data[0] = int(x2string) >>> data[1] = int(y2string).... etc Also check out the array capabilities in the array module and in numPy. I have recently written a class that supports arrays stored as lists of lists, and provides (at the moment) for 1 and 2 dimensional arrays, to be extended soon to higher dimensions. It allows for subscripting in the form array[row, col]. There is no requirement that all elements be the same type. Bob Gailer mailto:ramrom@earthling.net 303 442 2625 --=====================_10683001==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-38A765EE; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 03:32 PM 1/27/2003 +0000, Deirdre Hackett wrote:

I want to now put my 3 integer values into an array but it will not let me do

"will not let me" is woefully uninformative. Please always tell us what happens? Do you get an error? Does the computer hang? Do you get unexpected results?

What do you mean by array? What do you want to do with it? Native python does not have arrays in the sense of other languages. It has lists, tuples, dictionaries for storing array-like things. If you want a list, instead of:
>>> data = (int(x2string), int(y2string), int(z2string))
do:
>>> data = [int(x2string), int(y2string), int(z2string)]
or if you want elememt assignment initialize the list:
>>> data = [0]*n # where n is the number of elements you want.
then you can
>>> data[0] = int(x2string)
>>> data[1] = int(y2string).... etc

Also check out the array capabilities in the array module and in numPy.

I have recently written a class that supports arrays stored as lists of lists, and provides (at the moment) for 1 and 2 dimensional arrays, to be extended soon to higher dimensions. It allows for subscripting in the form array[row, col]. There is no requirement that all elements be the same type.

Bob Gailer
mailto:ramrom@earthling.net
303 442 2625
--=====================_10683001==.ALT-- --=======7D8E3D26======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-38A765EE Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.445 / Virus Database: 250 - Release Date: 1/21/2003 --=======7D8E3D26=======-- From ATrautman@perryjudds.com Mon Jan 27 12:45:02 2003 From: ATrautman@perryjudds.com (Alan Trautman) Date: Mon Jan 27 12:45:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Import Statement Differences Message-ID: <0BA95581EDA7D611841B00A0C9AD25DD2B5998@mail.pjinet.com> Tom, Your issue is with the way items are named based on the way they are imported into the working program. Read the namespaces section on the Python website for more info (it quire clear and this is a model example). >from time import * >formattedTimeNow = strftime("%H:%M:%S - %a, %d %b %y", localtime(time()) ) >print formattedTimeNow from * import * all of the time function into the current namespace and then they can be called without explicit reference to the module from which they came. This sort of means (don't pick on me for generalizing please) they are added to the standard library in this program/module and can be called without explicit calls to the module. This however: >import time >formattedTimeNow = strftime("%H:%M:%S - %a, %d %b %y", localtime(time()) ) >print formattedTimeNow Needs the know where to find the functions you are calling so you explicitly tell Python where to look. (i.e. time.[function name). import time formattedTimeNow = time.strftime("%H:%M:%S - %a, %d %b %y", time.localtime(time.time()) ) print formattedTimeNow IMO opinion except for very simple items explicit is better because it is easier to trace after the program is complete and you should never run into problems with 2 modules having functions of the same name. In addition the Python documentation I seem to recall says the shames thing. HTH, Alan -----Original Message----- From: Tom Churm [mailto:churmtom@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 11:15 AM To: tutor@python.org Subject: [Tutor] Import Statement Differences i'm running python 2.2.2 and i'm very confused because this works: from time import * formattedTimeNow = strftime("%H:%M:%S - %a, %d %b %y", localtime(time()) ) print formattedTimeNow but this results in an error: import time formattedTimeNow = strftime("%H:%M:%S - %a, %d %b %y", localtime(time()) ) print formattedTimeNow ==> NameError: name 'strftime' is not defined what's the difference between the two import statements? --tom _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor From alan.gauld@bt.com Mon Jan 27 13:04:24 2003 From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com) Date: Mon Jan 27 13:04:24 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Arrays and tuples Message-ID: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E09702372@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> > I want to now put my 3 integer values into an array but it will not let me do > > data[0] = int(x2string) > data[1] = int(y2string).... etc data = [] # create empty list data.append(int(x2string)) data.append(int(y2string)) etc... > Can you create an array that you can append values to it. Exactly so, as shown above. You might find my Raw Materials chapter useful in the web tutor... Alan g. Author of the Learn to Program website http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Mon Jan 27 13:45:01 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Mon Jan 27 13:45:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Import Statement Differences In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Tom Churm wrote: > i'm running python 2.2.2 and i'm very confused because this works: > > from time import * > formattedTimeNow = strftime("%H:%M:%S - %a, %d %b %y", localtime(time()) ) > print formattedTimeNow Hi Tom, The 'from time import *' statement will take everything that's in the 'time' module, and dump all of it on our feet. That is, when we see something like: > from time import * it's actually doing a lot of stuff; it's almost equivalent to: ### import time accept2dyear = time.accept2dyear altzone = time.altzone asctime = time.asctime clock = time.clock ctime = time.ctime daylight = time.daylight # etc... ### Try doing a dir() before and after a 'from time import *', and you'll see a large increase of variables being dumped in after the 'from time import *'. This indiscriminant dump is one reason why using 'from foo import *' isn't usually a good idea, as it's a bit messy since it makes dir()ing our variables more difficult. If we're interested, we can look at: http://www.python.org/doc/tut/node8.html#SECTION008410000000000000000 which talks more about this. > but this results in an error: > > import time > formattedTimeNow = strftime("%H:%M:%S - %a, %d %b %y", localtime(time()) ) > print formattedTimeNow > > ==> NameError: name 'strftime' is not defined > > what's the difference between the two import statements? The second version does not pull everything out of 'time': it just makes the module 'time' itself available to us. To get at time's 'strftime' function, we have to go through 'time' first: ### import time formattedTimeNow = time.strftime("%H:%M:%S - %a, %d %b %y", localtime(time()) ) print formattedTimeNow ### This form, using a straight import, has the advantage that when we see something like: time.strftime("%H:%M:%S - %a, %d %b %y", localtime(time()) ) we can read from the statement that 'strftime' belongs to the 'time' module by inspection. When we start using a lot of modules, being able to see which functions belong to which modules can be really helpful. By the way, we can pull specific functions out of a module by using an assignment: ### import time strftime = time.strftime ### and from that point forward, 'strftime' will stand for the 'strftime' function in the 'time' module. Hope this helps! From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Mon Jan 27 13:54:01 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Mon Jan 27 13:54:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Arrays and tuples In-Reply-To: <006701c2c61a$1915bea0$0400a8c0@egbert> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Deirdre Hackett wrote: > I want to now put my 3 integer values into an array but it will not let > me do > > data[0] = int(x2string) > data[1] = int(y2string).... etc > > instead I have to > data = (int(x2string), int(y2string), int(z2string)) > > and this is only a tuple in which the size cannot be changed. > > Can you create an array that you can append values to it. You cannot > append vales to a tuple - its size is static. Instead of using a tuple, you may want to use a Python list: unlike a traditional array, it can expand as long as we tell it to. ### >>> people = [] >>> people.append('gamma') >>> people.append('helm') >>> people ['gamma', 'helm'] >>> people.append('johnson') >>> people.append('vissides') >>> people ['gamma', 'helm', 'johnson', 'vissides'] >>> people.pop(-1) 'vissides' >>> people ['gamma', 'helm', 'johnson'] ### The session above shows that we can even 'pop()' off pieces out of our list if we want. We can learn more about lists by looking at: http://www.python.org/doc/tut/node7.html#SECTION007100000000000000000 By the way, you might want to be careful about the word "array": arrays are traditionally used to say that we want a container of fixed size, so "appending to an array" is an oxymoron in certain circumstances. *grin* Good luck! From ahimsa@onetel.net.uk Mon Jan 27 14:14:01 2003 From: ahimsa@onetel.net.uk (ahimsa) Date: Mon Jan 27 14:14:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] rockpaperscissors In-Reply-To: <200301261503.27257.shalehperry@attbi.com> References: <1043618266.20752.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200301261503.27257.shalehperry@attbi.com> Message-ID: <1043694547.20752.62.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2003-01-26 at 23:03, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote: > what you have here is a classic programming "mistake". You are combining two > problems in one function and as a result have loss your flexibility. That's what I dig about this list: you folk are *really* helpful. Thank you. > The function results() both determines who wins *AND* is responsible for > reporting this data. Here is where you went wrong. If you had separated > this the print step would be rather simple. Splitting the function would > also let you reimplement this program as a server for a distributed network > play version. OK you lost me about the "distributed network play version", but no doubt I'll pick that up at some point. I *do* get your point about splitting the function up: I think that I was believing that doing it the way I did it was parsimonious - but evidently not. > What you find is that splitting functions so they only do one thing (same with > classes and their methods) you can mix and match functions for bigger and > better programs. You are right Sean, and y'know now that I reflect on this I can kick myself because I had just finished reading about the wisdom of designing a function to do one thing really well (which, if I'm not mistaken is also locally referred to in Linux circles as the 'Unix Way'?), and then to add one function to reference another function in a kind of 'daisy-chain' linkage. Having made the error, I can begin to get a clearer sense of both what not doing it looks like as well as the wisdom of doing it properly. > I would have made a "who won" function and a separate "print output function". > The print output is much simpler because it just has to say "noun verb noun, X > wins over Y". Hmmm - I'll think about that for a while. I might do it like that also, but want to think it over a bit first. > You could also store the strings in a dictionary/list to make the lookup a > little cleaner. > > objects[] = (("paper", "covers"), ("rock", "breaks"), ("scissors", "cut")) > > This is very common in games where the object list can grow and grow like role > playing games. Now I like that idea. Haven't reached the section in my work books that deal with Dictionaries in depth, but might be worthwhile to work on it a bit more this weekend. Neat idea - that does appeal to me aesthetically. > That is why this list exists. However please send the code as an attachment > that way various people's email programs do not reformat or munge the code. > Many people read email in a mailer which uses TTF fonts and this makes code > reading difficult because the lines do not line up how they would in a fixed > point code editor. Fair enough - I guess as a regular text file should suffice. > Since Python is indentation sensitive this is even more important. Agreed. And thanks :-) That was useful to me. Andrew -- ahimsa From ahimsa@onetel.net.uk Mon Jan 27 14:15:04 2003 From: ahimsa@onetel.net.uk (ahimsa) Date: Mon Jan 27 14:15:04 2003 Subject: [Tutor] rockpaperscissors In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030126234945.02bf8a28@www.thinkware.se> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030126234945.02bf8a28@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <1043694879.20756.69.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello Magnus On Sun, 2003-01-26 at 23:07, Magnus Lycka wrote: > For the algorithm, this little session might give some ideas: > > >>> winners = {'scissors': 'rock', 'paper': 'scissors', 'rock': 'paper'} > >>> def whoWon(a, b): > ... if winners[a] == b: > ... print b, "wins over", a > ... elif winners[b] == a: > ... print a, "wins over", b > ... else: > ... print "A draw, try again" > ... > >>> whoWon('rock', 'scissors') > rock wins over scissors > >>> whoWon('rock', 'paper') > paper wins over rock > >>> whoWon('rock', 'rock') > A draw, try again > > Maybe whoWon should instead take a tuple of (name, choice)? So you are suggesting a dictionary where the key pairs are the win-lose pairs (i.e. 'scissors' broken by 'rock', etc). Sean also suggested a dictionary approach, and again I must say that it does give a really nice neat look to the code, and is easy to read too. Thank you for your suggestion; I am certainly more inclined to try to use that approach. All the best Andrew -- ahimsa From ahimsa@onetel.net.uk Mon Jan 27 14:25:05 2003 From: ahimsa@onetel.net.uk (ahimsa) Date: Mon Jan 27 14:25:05 2003 Subject: [Tutor] rockpaperscissors In-Reply-To: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E0974DA9D@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> References: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E0974DA9D@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> Message-ID: <1043695387.20750.79.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello Alan On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 12:57, alan.gauld@bt.com wrote: > Its not too bad given the size of the problem. You can of course > build on all sorts of extra sophistication, but its gardly worth > it IMHO. It is functional, but only just. The code is messy and long-winded and as both Sean and Magnus have already suggested, designing a smaller function to do the task is just better a programming tactic. > One area that might be more e;egant is to drive the results() function > from a data structure: > > # results is a dictionary of dictionaries > outcomes = ["Scissors cuts Paper", "Paper wraps Rock", "Rock smashes > Scissors"] > winners = ["Drawn game", "Computer won", "You won"] > results = { 1: { 2: outcomes[1] + winners[1], > 3: outcomes[2] + winners[2] }, > 2: { 1: outcomes[1] + winners[2], > 3: outcomes[0] + winners[1]}, > 3: { 1: outcomes[2] + winners[1], > 2: outcomes[0] + winners[2]} > } > > Now your function just becomes a case of looking up the dictionary > and printing the result. But its not that much prettier and only > saves a tiny bit of maintenance effort. Hmmm ... It took me a while but I think that I can follow what you're suggesting here. No offence, but it still looks a little clumsy or awkward, which is one of the things I didn't feel satisfied about with the example code I presented ... that and also because I couldn't add the score counter to it. > There are 3 outcomes - Computer Wins, User wins, or draw. > You can return that from the return function by making the > return value a tuple containing the result code and result > string. > > Represent that with 0,1,2 - which coincidentally(!) are the > indices of the winners string list above, making translation > easy... This is true enough ... coincidentally??? ;-) > Then use a line in the loop like: > > if result[0] == -1: draw += 1 > elif result[0] == 0: computer += 1 > else user += 1 This bottom section might do the trick actually, so I'm going to file this part away along with a couple of the other suggestions and play around with it some more and see what I can get to work. Thanks for your suggestion Alan. Best wishes Andrew -- ahimsa From nixonron@yahoo.com Mon Jan 27 14:58:06 2003 From: nixonron@yahoo.com (Ron Nixon) Date: Mon Jan 27 14:58:06 2003 Subject: [Tutor] newbie search and replace Message-ID: <20030127195622.97080.qmail@web20309.mail.yahoo.com> --0-899984948-1043697382=:96837 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have a file with several thousand address in it with different spellings of "st", "street" "road", "rd" "lane", "ln" I want to go in a standardize all the spellings. The file looks like this below 100 Broad Street 50 Apple LN 24 Dirckson St. 439 Bullock RD 342 Nash Road I tried something like this addr = open('c://address.txt') import string addr = open('c://address.txt') addrN = addr.readlines() addrN.replace('LN', 'Lane') I got an error message back. Can someone tell me what am I doing wrong here and how to correct the problem to get the results I want? Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-899984948-1043697382=:96837 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

I have a file with several thousand address in it with different spellings of "st", "street" "road", "rd" "lane", "ln"

I want to go in a standardize all the spellings. The file looks like this below

100 Broad Street

50 Apple LN

24 Dirckson St.

439 Bullock RD

342 Nash Road

I tried something like this

addr = open('c://address.txt')

import string
addr = open('c://address.txt')
addrN = addr.readlines()
addrN.replace('LN', 'Lane')

I got an error message back. Can someone tell me what am I doing wrong here and how to correct the problem to get the results I want?

Ron

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-899984948-1043697382=:96837-- From glingl@aon.at Mon Jan 27 15:13:02 2003 From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Mon Jan 27 15:13:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] newbie search and replace References: <20030127195622.97080.qmail@web20309.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E3592C8.5070302@aon.at> Ron Nixon schrieb: > I have a file with several thousand address in it with different > spellings of "st", "street" "road", "rd" "lane", "ln" > > I want to go in a standardize all the spellings. The file looks like > this below > > > > 100 Broad Street > > 50 Apple LN > > 24 Dirckson St. > > 439 Bullock RD > > 342 Nash Road > > I tried something like this > > addr = open('c://address.txt') > > import string > addr = open('c://address.txt') > addrN = addr.readlines() > addrN.replace('LN', 'Lane') > > I got an error message back. Can someone tell me what am I doing wrong > here and how to correct the problem to get the results I want? > > > The readlines() method outputs a list of strings, whereas replace() is a string-method. If you used addr.read() instead, which reads in the content of the file as a string, the replace()-method should work. HTH; Gregor > Ron > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus > - > Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > From Jmllr891@cs.com Mon Jan 27 15:26:00 2003 From: Jmllr891@cs.com (Jmllr891@cs.com) Date: Mon Jan 27 15:26:00 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Simple wxPython Question Message-ID: <001001c2c642$497f0ec0$58bc8018@ne1.client2.attbi.com> ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C2C618.5FA5A080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was wondering if it is possible to change the default font that is used fo= r menus in wxPython. I have tried doing it with the wxFont widget, but all I= get is an error message. I've gone through the documentation and couldn't find what I was looking for= , although I probably missed something (there's quite a few widgets to read=20= about). Anyway, thanks in advance! Joshua Miller ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C2C618.5FA5A080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I was wondering if it is possible to change= the=20 default font that is used for menus in wxPython. I have tried doing it with=20= the=20 wxFont widget, but all I get is an error message.

I've gone through the documentation an= d=20 couldn't find what I was looking for, although I probably missed something=20 (there's quite a few widgets to read about).

Anyway, thanks in advance!

Joshua Miller

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C2C618.5FA5A080-- From cooll@bol.com.br Mon Jan 27 15:43:02 2003 From: cooll@bol.com.br (Rodrigo) Date: Mon Jan 27 15:43:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Problem with entrys with python and Tix Message-ID: <20030127174211.6d61478d.cooll@bol.com.br> I have wrote a simple class in python to use tix to create a window, my idea is make possible open variuos instances of this window with a variation(a var inside the class will handle a database value that will allow to create diferent tables in diferente windows) but the problem is that i can not retry the information on the entrys , i have tryed it in may ways but it did not worked, i`m sending the source of the class so you can help me. class nc: def __init__(self,conta): self.__jn=Tix.Tk() nmconta=Tix.StringVar() self.__tpconta=Tix.StringVar() frm1=Tix.Frame(self.__jn,border='3',relief='ridge') frm1.pack(side='top',fill='both',expand='1') lb1 = Tix.Label(frm1,text="Nome:") lb2 = Tix.Label(frm1,text="Tipo:") self.__ent= Tix.Entry(frm1,textvariable=nmconta) tp =Tix.ComboBox(frm1,variable=self.__tpconta) tp.insert(Tix.END,"Entrada") tp.insert(Tix.END,"Saida") tp.insert(Tix.END,"Movimentacao") lb1.pack(side='top') self.__ent.pack(side='top',fill='x') lb2.pack(side='top') tp.pack(side='top',fill='x') frm2=Tix.Frame(self.__jn,border='4',relief='ridge') frm2.pack(side='top',expand='1',fill='both') bt1=Tix.Button(frm2,relief='ridge',command=self.cancelar,text='Cancel') bt2=Tix.Button(frm2,relief='ridge',command=self.ok,text='Ok') bt2.pack(side='left',fill='x') bt1.pack(side='left',fill='x') def ok(self): if(tkMessageBox.askyesno("Controler:Nova Conta","Confirma criacao da conta?")): # try: # print(self.__nmconta.get()) #sql1="Create table "+nome_conta.get()+"(data date,descricao char(250),valor float(10,2),sinal char(1))" #sql2="Insert into contas values("+self.__nmconta.get()+","+self.__tpconta.get()+")" tkMessageBox.showinfo("",nmconta) #tkMessageBox.showinfo("",sql2) #self.__jn.destroy(); # except: # tkMessageBox.showerror("Controler:Nova conta","Erro criando conta") def cancelar(self): self.__jn.wm_title("Oi") ######### From Sean Abrahams Mon Jan 27 16:01:01 2003 From: Sean Abrahams (Sean Abrahams) Date: Mon Jan 27 16:01:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Import and Execute Modules in List Message-ID: <59-2120858812.20030127130309@sfsu.edu> I'm developing an application where I want the user to define a list of modules they want to use and then the application then takes that list and loads those modules. As a test, I did this: ------------------------------------ >>> a = ['cgi','Cookie','sys','re'] >>> b = len(a) >>> for counter in range(b): ... import a[counter] File "", line 2 import a[counter] ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax ------------------------------------ Obviously, this doesn't work, and I don't want to use an if-else statement. Thanks, --Sean From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Mon Jan 27 16:21:04 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Mon Jan 27 16:21:04 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Import and Execute Modules in List In-Reply-To: <59-2120858812.20030127130309@sfsu.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Sean Abrahams wrote: > I'm developing an application where I want the user to define a list of > modules they want to use and then the application then takes that list > and loads those modules. > > As a test, I did this: > > ------------------------------------ > >>> a = ['cgi','Cookie','sys','re'] > >>> b = len(a) > >>> for counter in range(b): > ... import a[counter] > File "", line 2 > import a[counter] > ^ > SyntaxError: invalid syntax > ------------------------------------ > > Obviously, this doesn't work, and I don't want to use an if-else > statement. Hi Sean, The 'import' statement is slightly special: it doesn't take strings, but names of the module that's going to be imported. So we have to take a sligthly different approach. To do what you want is slightly trickier, but not by too much. We can use the builtin '__import__' function, and combine that with some globals() fiddling. For example: ### [dyoo@tesuque dyoo]$ python Python 2.2.1 (#1, Sep 3 2002, 14:52:01) [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.3 2.96-112)] on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> module_names = ['random', 'unittest', 'bisect'] >>> for m in module_names: ... globals()[m] = __import__(m) ... >>> dir() ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'bisect', 'm', 'module_names', 'random', 'unittest'] ### (By the way, I've simplified the for-loop code a little more by iterating directly on the names of the modules, rather than their respective numeric indices.) For more information on those two functions --- __import__() and globals() --- we can look at: http://www.python.org/doc/lib/built-in-funcs.html#l2h-2 http://www.python.org/doc/lib/built-in-funcs.html#l2h-24 I hope this helps! From nixonron@yahoo.com Mon Jan 27 16:26:15 2003 From: nixonron@yahoo.com (Ron Nixon) Date: Mon Jan 27 16:26:15 2003 Subject: [Tutor] newbie search and replace In-Reply-To: <3E3592C8.5070302@aon.at> Message-ID: <20030127212539.86768.qmail@web20304.mail.yahoo.com> --0-1037896305-1043702739=:84062 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Gregor Lingl wrote:Ron Nixon schrieb: > I have a file with several thousand address in it with different > spellings of "st", "street" "road", "rd" "lane", "ln" > > I want to go in a standardize all the spellings. The file looks like > this below > > > > 100 Broad Street > > 50 Apple LN > > 24 Dirckson St. > > 439 Bullock RD > > 342 Nash Road > > I tried something like this > > addr = open('c://address.txt') > > import string > addr = open('c://address.txt') > addrN = addr.readlines() > addrN.replace('LN', 'Lane') > > I got an error message back. Can someone tell me what am I doing wrong > here and how to correct the problem to get the results I want? > > > The readlines() method outputs a list of strings, whereas replace() is a string-method. If you used addr.read() instead, which reads in the content of the file as a string, the replace()-method should work. HTH; Gregor > Ron > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus > - > Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > _______________________________________________ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor Gregor and Tim Thanks Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-1037896305-1043702739=:84062 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Gregor Lingl <glingl@aon.at> wrote:

Ron Nixon schrieb:

> I have a file with several thousand address in it with different
> spellings of "st", "street" "road", "rd" "lane", "ln"
>
> I want to go in a standardize all the spellings. The file looks like
> this below
>
>
>
> 100 Broad Street
>
> 50 Apple LN
>
> 24 Dirckson St.
>
> 439 Bullock RD
>
> 342 Nash Road
>
> I tried something like this
>
> addr = open('c://address.txt')
>
> import string
> addr = open('c://address.txt')
> addrN = addr.readlines()
> addrN.replace('LN', 'Lane')
>
> I got an error message back. Can someone tell me what am I doing wrong
> here and how to correct the problem to get the results I want?
>
>
>
The readlines() method outputs a list of strings, whereas replace() is a
string-method.
If you used addr.read() instead, which reads in the content of the file
as a string, the
replace()-method should work.

HTH; Gregor

> Ron
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus
> -
> Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
>

_______________________________________________
Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

Gregor and Tim

Thanks

Ron

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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-1037896305-1043702739=:84062-- From nsis5@allstate.com Mon Jan 27 16:41:02 2003 From: nsis5@allstate.com (Sison, Nick) Date: Mon Jan 27 16:41:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Python 2.2.1 - RedHat 8 distro Message-ID: <4DF4786A05BDCA4BA5AC00431981688001005F03@a0001-xpo0113-s.hodc.ad.allstate.com> Greetings, I just installed the Rhat 8 distro on my machine and found that Python 2.2.1 seems to be installed as a default. I can't get Idle to work though. Is there something I'm missing? Can anyone direct me to a site that addresses this issue? Thanks in advance...!! ps. I do find the Idle files but when I start ./idle.py, I get a traceback call....I didn't copy it exactly but if memory serves it seems like it doesn't see some of the modules. I am thinking that I need to adjust the ENV (path)? Would this be a good assumption? Nick From Sean Abrahams Mon Jan 27 16:43:01 2003 From: Sean Abrahams (Sean Abrahams) Date: Mon Jan 27 16:43:01 2003 Subject: Re[2]: [Tutor] Import and Execute Modules in List In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <197-2118368125.20030127134440@sfsu.edu> Danny, Pefect =). Thank you! --Sean Monday, January 27, 2003, 1:20:33 PM, you wrote: DY> On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Sean Abrahams wrote: >> I'm developing an application where I want the user to define a list of >> modules they want to use and then the application then takes that list >> and loads those modules. >> >> As a test, I did this: >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >>> a = ['cgi','Cookie','sys','re'] >> >>> b = len(a) >> >>> for counter in range(b): >> ... import a[counter] >> File "", line 2 >> import a[counter] >> ^ >> SyntaxError: invalid syntax >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Obviously, this doesn't work, and I don't want to use an if-else >> statement. DY> Hi Sean, DY> The 'import' statement is slightly special: it doesn't take strings, but DY> names of the module that's going to be imported. So we have to take a DY> sligthly different approach. DY> To do what you want is slightly trickier, but not by too much. We can use DY> the builtin '__import__' function, and combine that with some globals() DY> fiddling. For example: DY> ### DY> [dyoo@tesuque dyoo]$ python DY> Python 2.2.1 (#1, Sep 3 2002, 14:52:01) DY> [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.3 2.96-112)] on linux2 DY> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>>> module_names = ['random', 'unittest', 'bisect'] >>>> for m in module_names: DY> ... globals()[m] = __import__(m) DY> ... >>>> dir() DY> ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'bisect', 'm', DY> 'module_names', 'random', 'unittest'] DY> ### DY> (By the way, I've simplified the for-loop code a little more by iterating DY> directly on the names of the modules, rather than their respective numeric DY> indices.) DY> For more information on those two functions --- __import__() and globals() DY> --- we can look at: DY> http://www.python.org/doc/lib/built-in-funcs.html#l2h-2 DY> http://www.python.org/doc/lib/built-in-funcs.html#l2h-24 DY> I hope this helps! DY> _______________________________________________ DY> Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org DY> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor From hall@ouhep1.nhn.ou.edu Mon Jan 27 16:45:15 2003 From: hall@ouhep1.nhn.ou.edu (Isaac Hall) Date: Mon Jan 27 16:45:15 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Python 2.2.1 - RedHat 8 distro In-Reply-To: <4DF4786A05BDCA4BA5AC00431981688001005F03@a0001-xpo0113-s.hodc.ad.allstate.com> Message-ID: Hi Nick, As far as I know, on a linux box there is no need to run Idle. I have been running python on RH 7.2 (and earlier) for 3 years now, and never used idle until the other day when I installed python on my windows box. You can get an interactive interpreter like idle simply by opening a shell window and typing 'python' in at the command line. (no arguments!) I think this should answer your questions. Ike On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Sison, Nick wrote: > > Greetings, > > I just installed the Rhat 8 distro on my machine and found that Python 2.2.1 > seems to be installed as a default. I can't get Idle to work though. Is > there something I'm missing? Can anyone direct me to a site that addresses > this issue? Thanks in advance...!! > > ps. I do find the Idle files but when I start ./idle.py, I get a traceback > call....I didn't copy it exactly but if memory serves it seems like it > doesn't see some of the modules. I am thinking that I need to adjust the > ENV (path)? Would this be a good assumption? > > Nick > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > -- From magnus@thinkware.se Mon Jan 27 17:50:02 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Mon Jan 27 17:50:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Arrays and tuples In-Reply-To: <006701c2c61a$1915bea0$0400a8c0@egbert> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030127232720.02c8e258@www.thinkware.se> At 15:32 2003-01-27 +0000, Deirdre Hackett wrote: >I want to now put my 3 integer values into an array but it will not let me do > >data[0] = int(x2string) >data[1] = int(y2string).... etc As others have told you, the typical Python structure to use when arrays are used in other languages is a list. But while l = []; l.append(x); l.append(y) is certainly a common construct, you can also initialize with values, which you tried to do... >instead I have to >data = (int(x2string), int(y2string), int(z2string)) You are so close here. Just use [] instead of the outer (). t = (1, 2) l = [1, 2] d = {1: 2, 'a':'b'} Here, t is a tuple, l is a list, and d is a dictionary. As you noted, tuples are immutable. Dictionaries differ from lists and tuples in that they have arbitrary (well almost) keys. In this case, both t[1], l[1] and d[1] will return the same value: 2. Now you might understand why you could not simply do: data[0] = something There is no way for python to know whether you are trying to put something into a list or a dictionary here. Actually, there are a number of other types of objects as well, which use the x[n] notation. Anyway, there IS actually an array type in python as well. It's helpful if you want to restrict a list-like object to certain types of values. >>> import array >>> help(array) ... >>> a = array.array('i') >>> type(a) >>> a.append(1) >>> a.append(2) >>> a.append('r') Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in ? TypeError: an integer is required >>> print a array('i', [1, 2]) >>> for i in a: ... print i ... 1 2 >>> a = array.array('f') >>> a.append(1) >>> a.append(2) >>> a.append('r') Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in ? TypeError: bad argument type for built-in operation >>> print a array('f', [1.0, 2.0]) >>> for i in a: ... print i ... 1.0 2.0 But just as with lists, you must use append (or insert etc) to make it bigger, you can't do this: >>> a[2] = 7 Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in ? IndexError: array assignment index out of range -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From magnus@thinkware.se Mon Jan 27 18:09:02 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Mon Jan 27 18:09:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Import Statement Differences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030127235331.02c926b0@www.thinkware.se> At 10:44 2003-01-27 -0800, Danny Yoo wrote: >The 'from time import *' statement will take everything that's in the >'time' module, and dump all of it on our feet. A middleground between 'import time' and 'from time import *' is to write 'from time import strftime, localtime'. This means that you just type 'localtime()' instead of 'time.localtime()' when you use it, but you still don't clog your namespace with any unexpected names. I still suggest that you use "import time" though. As you code, you will probably realize that you need to use time.time() and time.clock() etc as well, and then you will need to go back to the beginning of your program to add more functions to the "from time import ..." line. This will be disruptive for your programming. No flow there... Also, when you read a program, seeing 'time.accept2dyear' is much more informative than just seeing 'accept2dyear'. In the second case, there is no way you can know from the code where 'accept2dyear' came from. In the first case it's clear that it's from the time module. Sometimes it might be obvious where a function or class belongs, but far from always. Typing "time.localtime()" is not so horribly long, but what if your module name is called MyHomemadeOracleNineDatabaseAdapter? import MyHomemadeOracleNineDatabaseAdapter conn = MyHomemadeOracleNineDatabaseAdapter.conn(connectstring) cur = ... Yuk! This time we MUST use from MyHomemadeOracleNineDatabaseAdapter import * right? No, no, no! Just use the "as" part of the import statement! import MyHomemadeOracleNineDatabaseAdapter as db conn = db.conn(connectstring) cur = ... -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From wheelcrdan@hotmail.com Mon Jan 27 18:17:01 2003 From: wheelcrdan@hotmail.com (Danny) Date: Mon Jan 27 18:17:01 2003 Subject: Fw: [Tutor] Database driven web sites with python [Phil and Alex's Guide to Web Publishing] Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danny Yoo" To: "Danny" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [Tutor] Database driven web sites with python [Phil and Alex's Guide to Web Publishing] > > > On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Danny wrote: > > > Quick and easy question, can you use python to build database driven web > > sites. Thanks ahead of time for everyone help, and have a great > > weekend... > > Out of curiosity, what kind of database-driven web site are you thinking > of building? > > If you haven't seen this already, you may find "Phil and Alex's Guide to > Web Publishing" a useful (and amusing) web book to browse through: > > http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/ > > In particular: > > http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/databases-interfacing > > talks about the basics of writing database-driven sites. He uses a > programming language called Tcl/Tk to implement his site, but you can > translate that code to Python pretty easily. And even with the book's > non-Python focus, it gives a lot of good ideas that you can use to help > build your site. > > > Good luck to you! > > > _______________________________________________ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor Hello everyone! :) The kind of site i was building is really simple idea. They want to add to a all ready existing site... They want to add a page that they can log into. Then go to a another page. Which is a database that lists their clients for them.. So they can be any where, and know where who their clients are. I recomended it to be database driven.. Because they can easily update it, without having to know any code. "I know how to sell a page thats what I do for a living. :) :)" But I'm really tring to learn to program so I can build and sell a web page. So I can make more $$$ :) :) :).. Hope everyone had a great day, and thanks to everyone responded to my emails.. Danny Dudleston > From glingl@aon.at Mon Jan 27 18:24:10 2003 From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Mon Jan 27 18:24:10 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Arrays and tuples References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030127232720.02c8e258@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <3E35BFA3.6000201@aon.at> Magnus Lycka schrieb: > At 15:32 2003-01-27 +0000, Deirdre Hackett wrote: > >> I want to now put my 3 integer values into an array but it will not >> let me do >> >> data[0] = int(x2string) >> data[1] = int(y2string).... etc > > > But while > l = []; l.append(x); l.append(y) > is certainly a common construct, you can also initialize > with values, which you tried to do... > >> instead I have to >> data = (int(x2string), int(y2string), int(z2string)) > Sometimes you may encounter a situation, where you know the length of an array but NOT the order in which values will be put into that array. In this situation you may use an approach similar to the following one: >>> data = [None] * 4 >>> data [None, None, None, None] >>> data[2] = 4.25 >>> data [None, None, 4.25, None] >>> data[0] = 1 >>> data [1, None, 4.25, None] Sincerely, Gregor From magnus@thinkware.se Mon Jan 27 18:26:00 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Mon Jan 27 18:26:00 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Simple wxPython Question In-Reply-To: <001001c2c642$497f0ec0$58bc8018@ne1.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030128002230.02c862b8@www.thinkware.se> At 15:25 2003-01-27 -0500, Jmllr891@cs.com wrote: >I was wondering if it is possible to change the default font that is used >for menus in wxPython. I have tried doing it with the wxFont widget, but >all I get is an error message. If I remember correctly, a similar question was recently up on the wxPython-users mailing list. That's really be proper forum for this question, but search the archives first. -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From magnus@thinkware.se Mon Jan 27 18:37:01 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Mon Jan 27 18:37:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] newbie search and replace In-Reply-To: <3E3592C8.5070302@aon.at> References: <20030127195622.97080.qmail@web20309.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030128002502.02c5f0c0@www.thinkware.se> At 21:12 2003-01-27 +0100, Gregor Lingl wrote: >>addrN.replace('LN', 'Lane') >The readlines() method outputs a list of strings, whereas replace() is a >string-method. >If you used addr.read() instead, which reads in the content of the file as >a string, the >replace()-method should work. But beware! Remember that ALL occurences of LN etc will be replaced. And it's case sensitive. >>> "First Liston St".replace('st', 'street') 'Firstreet Listreeton St' Oops! Regular expressions might be a better choice. >>> import re >>> stPat = re.compile(r'\bst\b', re.IGNORECASE) >>> stPat.sub('Street', "First Liston St") 'First Liston Street' But to use re well, you need some study and practice. See the python library reference. -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From glingl@aon.at Mon Jan 27 18:50:01 2003 From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Mon Jan 27 18:50:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] newbie search and replace References: <20030127195622.97080.qmail@web20309.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030128002502.02c5f0c0@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <3E35C5A5.3080202@aon.at> Magnus Lycka schrieb: > > But to use re well, you need some study and practice. See > the python library reference. > > And also the very well written Regular Expression HOWTO at http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/ Gregor From Sean Abrahams Mon Jan 27 19:01:02 2003 From: Sean Abrahams (Sean Abrahams) Date: Mon Jan 27 19:01:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Web Programming Resources Message-ID: <189-2110056968.20030127160311@sfsu.edu> Thanks to this list I just found: "Philip and Alex's Guide to Web Publishing" http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/index.html Something I wish I would have found four years ago. As a young web developer I have seriously been lacking a Mentor. I've been going it on my own for a year now and have yearned for an experienced programmer to show me the ropes. Thus, I was hoping some of you on this list would share the books/resources that have changed the way you program, and more specifically, for the web. I can't be thankful enough that I finally signed up for this list, and look forward to learning each and every day from the posts. So you don't forget ;), what books/resources do you find essential to your programming (specifically web programming in my case) and learning/usage of it? I would definitely put "Philip and Alex's Guide to Web Publishing" on my list. Thanks, --Sean From Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de Mon Jan 27 20:08:13 2003 From: Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael Janssen) Date: Mon Jan 27 20:08:13 2003 Subject: [Tutor] newbie search and replace In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030128002502.02c5f0c0@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: Hi all, to avoid nasty regular expressions, one can split the file into "words" (defined as character[s] between spaces - now you needn't check for word-boundaries via regexp) and check for every word if a abbrevation-fullstring-dictionary has the word as a key: 1. read file with readlines (--> list of lines) 2. split every line into "words". Omit newlines 3. check for each word in lowercase if the dictionary has it as a key. If yes change it (i.e. overwrite the word with the fullstring from the dictionary). 4. join the words back to lines. 5. write list of lines back to file. This approach has the advantages of avoiding regexps, possibly being faster (could be, but I don't know), being more readable, because the abbrevation-fullstring definitions sits in the dictionary and arn't scattered through the code. On the other hand, the code itself is more comlicate than simple read(), xxx times of re.sub() and write(). Perhaps, you have solved your task just a few minutes after first response from the list, how knows? regards Michael On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Magnus Lycka wrote: > But to use re well, you need some study and practice. See > the python library reference. From shalehperry@attbi.com Mon Jan 27 20:32:02 2003 From: shalehperry@attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry) Date: Mon Jan 27 20:32:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] rockpaperscissors In-Reply-To: <1043694547.20752.62.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1043618266.20752.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200301261503.27257.shalehperry@attbi.com> <1043694547.20752.62.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200301271731.10861.shalehperry@attbi.com> On Monday 27 January 2003 11:09, ahimsa wrote: > > What you find is that splitting functions so they only do one thing (= same > > with classes and their methods) you can mix and match functions for > > bigger and better programs. > > You are right Sean, and y'know now that I reflect on this I can kick > myself because I had just finished reading about the wisdom of designin= g > a function to do one thing really well (which, if I'm not mistaken is > also locally referred to in Linux circles as the 'Unix Way'?), and then > to add one function to reference another function in a kind of > 'daisy-chain' linkage. Having made the error, I can begin to get a > clearer sense of both what not doing it looks like as well as the wisdo= m > of doing it properly. > One of my college professors explained this as: when you go to write a function write a comment in front of it explaining= its=20 purpose to someone else. If you find yourself using the word 'and' more = than=20 once it is probably doing too much. I find that to be a little simplistic but generally sums up the idea well= =2E =20 While I do not comment my code like that I find the thought process can b= e=20 quite useful. From magnus@thinkware.se Mon Jan 27 20:50:01 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Mon Jan 27 20:50:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] newbie search and replace In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030128002502.02c5f0c0@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030128023853.02ce5e20@www.thinkware.se> At 02:07 2003-01-28 +0100, Michael Janssen wrote: >to avoid nasty regular expressions, one can split the file into "words" >(defined as character[s] between spaces - now you needn't check for >word-boundaries via regexp) and check for every word if a >abbrevation-fullstring-dictionary has the word as a key: But this is not the same as a regular expression word boundry. A word in RE is a sequence of alphanumeric characters and underscore. So, there are other word boundries than whitespace. This means that both "Hill St." and "Hill St" will be found by re.compile(r'\bst\b', re.IGNORECASE). If we want to eat up a possible trailing space, change it to re.compile(r'\bst\b\.?', re.IGNORECASE) >>> stPat = re.compile(r'\bst\b', re.IGNORECASE) >>> stPat.sub('Street', "First Liston St.") 'First Liston Street.' >>> stPat = re.compile(r'\bst\b\.?', re.IGNORECASE) >>> stPat.sub('Street', "First Liston St") 'First Liston Street' >>> stPat.sub('Street', "First Liston St.") 'First Liston Street' Once a problem reaches a certain level of complexity, and I think tidying natural language texts are a problem at that level, using too simple tools will just lead to very complicated, or failing, solutions. (Or both.) The power of RE means that it takes some time to learn, but in many situations, it's worth it. -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de Mon Jan 27 22:16:55 2003 From: Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael Janssen) Date: Mon Jan 27 22:16:55 2003 Subject: [Tutor] newbie search and replace In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030128023853.02ce5e20@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Magnus Lycka wrote: > But this is not the same as a regular expression word boundry. > A word in RE is a sequence of alphanumeric characters and > underscore. So, there are other word boundries than whitespace. [snip] > Once a problem reaches a certain level of complexity, and I > think tidying natural language texts are a problem at that > level, using too simple tools will just lead to very > complicated, or failing, solutions. (Or both.) > > The power of RE means that it takes some time to learn, but > in many situations, it's worth it. My first concern was that many global subtitions over a long string would last a long time. But I know: never optimize your code before the obvious attempt has proven inefficiency (On a sidenote: my favourite programm stucks most the runtime computing RE's where perl aequivalents have done the job already - it's terrible subjective, but I believe python's RE slow). Thanks for spotting the details of regular expression's "\b". Michael > > > -- > Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB > Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN > phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 > http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se > > From llazarre@yahoo.com Mon Jan 27 23:39:02 2003 From: llazarre@yahoo.com (Levy Lazarre) Date: Mon Jan 27 23:39:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Python and Tcl/Tk Message-ID: <20030128043730.12746.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> Greetings to all, Is anybody in this list familiar with Tcl/Tk? How does it compare to Python as a scripting language? Any areas where Tcl would be superior to Python? Please comment. Thanks, Levy Lazarre __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From dman@dman.ddts.net Tue Jan 28 00:01:02 2003 From: dman@dman.ddts.net (Derrick 'dman' Hudson) Date: Tue Jan 28 00:01:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: Sending Break in Telnet In-Reply-To: <46FEE020BCB4D3118C5800508B55C92801361151@SFOEXCHANGE> References: <46FEE020BCB4D3118C5800508B55C92801361151@SFOEXCHANGE> Message-ID: <20030128050026.GA4678@dman.ddts.net> --T4sUOijqQbZv57TR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jan 15, 2003 at 06:21:54PM -0800, Pankaj Mittal wrote: | Hi |=20 | I am developing a python program that connects to a server using telnet. | When I use the unix telnet I have to send=20 | telnet . This has to be followed by sending a "^]" | chartacter and then with "send break" on receiving a "telnet>" prompt.=20 | But when I try to send \035(equivalent of '^]', it does not work. How does your python program make the connection? Typing ^] is specific to the 'telnet' program. That is merely a way of indicating that you (the user at the keyboard) want the telnet program itself to respond to you, rather than sending the keys on to the remote machine. | Also I tried to send '\377\363'(255 and 243 - code as in RFC | document). I'm not sure, but possibly that character sequence must occur in a specific location in the telnet data stream. I'm not familiar with the intricacies of the telnet protocol and I don't have the RFCs handy, nor the time at the moment to read through them. However, I suspect that if you reread the RFC and if you use a packet sniffer like tcpdump or ethereal to compare the two sessions you'll find the difference. It is completely possible to match the (snipped) example session using python code and not using the 'telnet' program. HTH, -D --=20 Whoever gives heed to instruction prospers, and blessed is he who trusts in the Lord. Proverbs 16:20 =20 http://dman.ddts.net/~dman/ --T4sUOijqQbZv57TR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj42DmoACgkQO8l8XBKTpRSNRQCeLbnJh3yja4Sz6xCtVjl/pHJF 1DkAnRK6Ud2iBIs7tNSDC5r0gtkI3J28 =+826 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --T4sUOijqQbZv57TR-- From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Tue Jan 28 00:12:01 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Tue Jan 28 00:12:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Python and Tcl/Tk In-Reply-To: <20030128043730.12746.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Levy Lazarre wrote: > Greetings to all, > > Is anybody in this list familiar with Tcl/Tk? How does it compare to > Python as a scripting language? Any areas where Tcl would be superior to > Python? Please comment. Hi Levy, I ran into the following humongous web page that compares Tcl/Tk against other languages: http://www.icemcfd.com/tcl/comparison.html I got very tired after reading a few pages. *grin* But you're welcome to browse through it; there's actually quite a lot of good stuff in there. Good luck! From idiot1@netzero.net Tue Jan 28 01:20:02 2003 From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey) Date: Tue Jan 28 01:20:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] making money References: <3E338A78.9090107@netzero.net> Message-ID: <3E362101.2050904@netzero.net> ok. Be advised that I routinely pack heat. Michael Miller wrote: >>Anyone want to talk about this sillyness a little? > > > Sure. Meet me behind the 7-11 at midnight tomorrow. I'll be the one with the > baseball bat. ;) Sad thing is, it would probably work. Make sure you put a > popup or five on every new page. > > Michael > > -- end Respectfully, Kirk D Bailey Owner HowlerMonkey Email Services Company: http://www.howlermonkey.net/ Inventor of TinyList MLM list server: http://www.tinylist.org/ Consulting Lunatic: http://www.sacredelectron.org/ Remember: it is an ill wind that blows no minds. Fnord. From ahimsa@onetel.net.uk Tue Jan 28 03:07:03 2003 From: ahimsa@onetel.net.uk (ahimsa) Date: Tue Jan 28 03:07:03 2003 Subject: [Tutor] rockpaperscissors In-Reply-To: <200301271731.10861.shalehperry@attbi.com> References: <1043618266.20752.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200301261503.27257.shalehperry@attbi.com> <1043694547.20752.62.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200301271731.10861.shalehperry@attbi.com> Message-ID: <1043741155.20752.229.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2003-01-28 at 01:31, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote: > One of my college professors explained this as: > > when you go to write a function write a comment in front of it explaining its > purpose to someone else. If you find yourself using the word 'and' more than > once it is probably doing too much. > > > I find that to be a little simplistic but generally sums up the idea well. > While I do not comment my code like that I find the thought process can be > quite useful. I agree - that is a useful little reminder. Thanks :-) -- ahimsa From magnus@thinkware.se Tue Jan 28 06:49:01 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Tue Jan 28 06:49:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Python and Tcl/Tk In-Reply-To: <20030128043730.12746.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030128113357.02b61ac8@www.thinkware.se> At 20:37 2003-01-27 -0800, Levy Lazarre wrote: >Is anybody in this list familiar with Tcl/Tk? How does >it compare to Python as a scripting language? Any >areas where Tcl would be superior to Python? Please >comment. Tcl and Python are fairly different languages. Python is a language you can grow with. You can start small, and your project can grow in python. The language scales well. Tcl is only intended for small tasks and to glue larger programs (written in C or whatever) together. Either as an alternative to unix scripts, or to provide a GUI for a text based application. Don't expect to use Tcl beyond that scope. It needs to live in symbiosis with another language, where the "real" programs are written. You can do everything Tcl can in Python, but not vice versa. Even as a glue language for C programs, Python is much stronger, since Python has much more advanced data structures. I haven't really tried, but it seems to me that using Tcl to interface to programs where you need to access and communicate with complex data structures would be a little like trying to build model airplanes with thick wool mittens... On the other hand, I think Tcl is smaller, which might be a good thing on a palmtop or in an embedded appliance etc. If you search amazon for tcl books, you will find that all (?) books fall into one of these categories: * Published earlier than year 2000, maybe first ed in 1994. * Out of print. * Promised update of old book that is not yet available. A fading star? For very simple tasks for beginners, or as a user macro language Tcl might have a strength in its very simple syntax, and very simple data structures--every variable is a string. For people who have programmed in something like Basic, Java, C, Pascal etc, Python will probably look more familiar though. But as soon as things get a little more complex, programming in Tcl starts to be an uphill battle. Programmers start to invent their own syntax and data structures to an extent where other people will have to make an effort to understand construct that would have been trivial had they been implemented in for instance Python. -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From alan.gauld@bt.com Tue Jan 28 07:13:04 2003 From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com) Date: Tue Jan 28 07:13:04 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Python 2.2.1 - RedHat 8 distro Message-ID: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E09702378@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> > As far as I know, on a linux box there is no need to run > Idle. There's no *need* but many folks like to because it gives them some nice features over a shell python prompt: 1) syntax colouring(even at the >>> prompt) 2) a graphical debugger 3) tooltips for function parameters 4) some nice inspection tools(class and path browsers) Alan G. (Voting on the pro-IDLE side for a change!) From alan.gauld@bt.com Tue Jan 28 10:27:01 2003 From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com) Date: Tue Jan 28 10:27:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Python at C++ conference Message-ID: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E0974DAA2@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> I just got an invite to the "Association of C and C++ users"(ACCU) annual conference. Interestingly days 1 & 2 feature a Python stream with such luminaries as Guido, Alex Martelli and Duncan Booth and Andy Koenig giving talks covering both Python and Jython. Since my company doesn't, as a rule, allow attendance at such events is anyone else on the list attending who can give a report? More details: http://www.accuconference.co.uk/ Alan g. Author of the Learn to Program website http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ From alan.gauld@bt.com Tue Jan 28 10:50:34 2003 From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com) Date: Tue Jan 28 10:50:34 2003 Subject: [Tutor] newbie search and replace Message-ID: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E09702381@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> > My first concern was that many global subtitions over a long > string would last a long time. True but probably less time with a well designed RE than with multiple string searches with lots of safety checks. > stucks most the runtime computing RE's where perl > aequivalents have done the job already - it's terrible subjective, > but I believe python's RE slow). The C versions are pretty good, they are slower than Perl mainly because they are not builtin to the language but apart from module overhead they are not that much slower. I think Python's bad reputation for REs is largely based on the original regex module written in Python. Dirt sticks, even after its been cleaned off sometimes! Alan g. Author of the Learn to Program website http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ From alan.gauld@bt.com Tue Jan 28 10:50:49 2003 From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com) Date: Tue Jan 28 10:50:49 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Python and Tcl/Tk Message-ID: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E09702382@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> > Is anybody in this list familiar with Tcl/Tk? How does > it compare to Python as a scripting language? Any > areas where Tcl would be superior to Python? Please > comment. Slightly. Its usually shorter than Python for short programs. As the program size increases the difference diminishes and then swaps in Python's favour - in my experience. You can compare the two on my web tutor which uses Tcl in the basics section as a comparison to Python and also a very short example of Tk in my GUI topic. www.scriptics.com is/was Tcl's home site. I find Tcl interesting conceptually in much the same way I find Lisp and Smalltalk interesting. Fun to play with but I never seem to actually use them for anything big... Alan g. Author of the Learn to Program website http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ From alan.gauld@bt.com Tue Jan 28 11:04:04 2003 From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com) Date: Tue Jan 28 11:04:04 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Python and Tcl/Tk Message-ID: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E09702383@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> Oooh, I have to jump to Tcl's defence here :-) > Tcl and Python are fairly different languages. That's true, Tcl is unlike most languages in that it is command based and all operations consist of a single "line" - even when that line spans several physical lines! > Tcl is only intended for small tasks and to glue larger > programs (written in C or whatever) together. Not entirely true, the latest versions of Tcl can scale to quite large projects now it has OO and module support. But I do still favour Python for that role. > It needs to live in symbiosis with another language, where > the "real" programs are written. Not at all true. there are many standalone Tcl scripts around, most famously expect. > You can do everything Tcl can in Python This isn't true. In Tcl irts easy to redefine the bahaviour of the language at a level Python can't approach - redefine how the if statement works, or a while loop etc. Whether doing such things is wise is another matter entirely! Self modifying code is also easier to write in TCL - and the same caveat applies! > really tried, but it seems to me that using Tcl to interface > to programs where you need to access and communicate with > complex data structures would be a little like trying to build > model airplanes with thick wool mittens... Not sure why you think that. Tcl can handle complex structures pretty well. Certainly C unions and structs are handled OK. And classes map to Tcl classes. > On the other hand, I think Tcl is smaller, which might be > a good thing on a palmtop or in an embedded appliance etc. Much smaller. > If you search amazon for tcl books, you will find that all (?) > books fall into one of these categories: Too true, finding good Tcl books is not hard but there are few of them and the language is tending to outpace the authors. (But the same is true of Python book currency) > A fading star? A niche player... > simple data structures--every variable is a string. No longer true, and Tcl does have native compilation (and Java byte code support) in its favour too (as does Python via Jython and py2exe etc). > who have programmed in something like Basic, Java, C, Pascal > etc, Python will probably look more familiar though. This is definitely true. Tcl is downright weird the first time you encounter it - and the second! > in Tcl starts to be an uphill battle. Programmers start to invent > their own syntax and data structures Which is the Tcl idiom. In that regard its a bit like Lisp which also encourages a fine grained functional approach. I definitely prefer Python,, especially for big projects but Tcl is alive and well and very powerful for some things. In its niche (an embedded extensible macro language) it is still the best tool around IMHO. Alan g. Author of the Learn to Program website http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ From ramrom@earthling.net Tue Jan 28 11:24:01 2003 From: ramrom@earthling.net (Bob Gailer) Date: Tue Jan 28 11:24:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] rockpaperscissors In-Reply-To: <1043741155.20752.229.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200301271731.10861.shalehperry@attbi.com> <1043618266.20752.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200301261503.27257.shalehperry@attbi.com> <1043694547.20752.62.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200301271731.10861.shalehperry@attbi.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030128090815.02e812c0@66.28.54.253> --=======3BF65911======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-2D7674C4; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here's a "minimalist" version of rockpaperscissors: import random score = [0,0,0] for i in range(3): play = random.randint(0,2), random.randint(0,2) outcome = [2,1,0,2,1][play[0] - play[1] + 2] print '-'.join([['rock', 'scissors', 'paper'][p] for p in play]), ['tie', 'player 1 wins', 'player 2 wins'][outcome] score[outcome] += 1 print 'player 1-%s ties=%s player 2=%s' % tuple(score) Bob Gailer mailto:ramrom@earthling.net 303 442 2625 --=======3BF65911======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-2D7674C4 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.445 / Virus Database: 250 - Release Date: 1/21/2003 --=======3BF65911=======-- From glingl@aon.at Tue Jan 28 12:13:03 2003 From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Tue Jan 28 12:13:03 2003 Subject: [Tutor] rockpaperscissors References: <200301271731.10861.shalehperry@attbi.com> <1043618266.20752.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200301261503.27257.shalehperry@attbi.com> <1043694547.20752.62.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200301271731.10861.shalehperry@attbi.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030128090815.02e812c0@66.28.54.253> Message-ID: <3E36BA2B.6050403@aon.at> Bob Gailer schrieb: > Here's a "minimalist" version of rockpaperscissors: > > import random > score = [0,0,0] > for i in range(3): > play = random.randint(0,2), random.randint(0,2) > outcome = [2,1,0,2,1][play[0] - play[1] + 2] > print '-'.join([['rock', 'scissors', 'paper'][p] for p in play]), > ['tie', 'player 1 wins', 'player 2 wins'][outcome] > score[outcome] += 1 > print 'player 1-%s ties=%s player 2=%s' % tuple(score) > I think the last line should read: print 'ties=%s player 1=%s player 2=%s\n' % tuple(score) Isn't it? Moreover, if you would agree the following to be even more minimalstic, you could replace line #5 by: outcome = (play[1]-play[0]) % 3 If you now wonder, why this yields the same output, you may feel that there's something slightly uncomfortable with "minimalistic" solutions like this. Sincerely, Gregor From PMittal@Ceon.com Tue Jan 28 12:59:01 2003 From: PMittal@Ceon.com (Pankaj Mittal) Date: Tue Jan 28 12:59:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] RE: Sending Break in Telnet Message-ID: <46FEE020BCB4D3118C5800508B55C9280136116A@SFOEXCHANGE> Hi Derrick You are absolutely correct ^} is just to indicate the telnet client to got to a mode where some commands can be send like break. I read the RFC document and came to know about the break sequence. I was unable to send this as in Python 2.0.1 the telnet class escapes the special character i.e. decimal 255. So I found that I can directly use the public socket variable when I need to send this special characters as there is no other write function in telnet class. So Once I did that I was able to send special characters and everything worked. Thanks for you help Pankaj -----Original Message----- From: Derrick 'dman' Hudson [mailto:dman@dman.ddts.net] Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:00 PM To: 'tutor@python.org' Cc: Pankaj Mittal Subject: Re: Sending Break in Telnet On Wed, Jan 15, 2003 at 06:21:54PM -0800, Pankaj Mittal wrote: | Hi | | I am developing a python program that connects to a server using telnet. | When I use the unix telnet I have to send | telnet . This has to be followed by sending a "^]" | chartacter and then with "send break" on receiving a "telnet>" prompt. | But when I try to send \035(equivalent of '^]', it does not work. How does your python program make the connection? Typing ^] is specific to the 'telnet' program. That is merely a way of indicating that you (the user at the keyboard) want the telnet program itself to respond to you, rather than sending the keys on to the remote machine. | Also I tried to send '\377\363'(255 and 243 - code as in RFC | document). I'm not sure, but possibly that character sequence must occur in a specific location in the telnet data stream. I'm not familiar with the intricacies of the telnet protocol and I don't have the RFCs handy, nor the time at the moment to read through them. However, I suspect that if you reread the RFC and if you use a packet sniffer like tcpdump or ethereal to compare the two sessions you'll find the difference. It is completely possible to match the (snipped) example session using python code and not using the 'telnet' program. HTH, -D -- Whoever gives heed to instruction prospers, and blessed is he who trusts in the Lord. Proverbs 16:20 http://dman.ddts.net/~dman/ From Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de Tue Jan 28 13:28:01 2003 From: Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael Janssen) Date: Tue Jan 28 13:28:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] regexp are fast - was: newbie search and replace In-Reply-To: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E09702381@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 alan.gauld@bt.com wrote: > > My first concern was that many global subtitions over a long > > string would last a long time. > > True but probably less time with a well designed RE than with > multiple string searches with lots of safety checks. I've played a bit with "findall", rewritten the core of a script of mine, which I've written throughout the summer within twenty minutes, made it far more stable and voila: even incredibly faster than my first attempt (at least factor 2 with first try): What I've learned this afternoon and last night is: re's findall over a large string is much faster than many single string or re-operations while iterating line by line over a file. Yes, well designed RE's are fast. Michael [me - yesterday] > > stucks most the runtime computing RE's where perl > > aequivalents have done the job already - it's terrible subjective, > > but I believe python's RE slow). okey, I've changed my opinion about this :-) "You learn more, and the language scales up" > > The C versions are pretty good, they are slower than Perl mainly > because they are not builtin to the language but apart from module > overhead they are not that much slower. I think Python's bad reputation > for REs is largely based on the original regex module written in > Python. Dirt sticks, even after its been cleaned off sometimes! > > Alan g. > Author of the Learn to Program website > http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ > From tim@johnsons-web.com Tue Jan 28 17:20:02 2003 From: tim@johnsons-web.com (Tim Johnson) Date: Tue Jan 28 17:20:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] HTTP_REFERER Issues Message-ID: <20030128222426.GY16215@johnsons-web.com> Hello All: I'm using python for a cgi script, but I believe this is a language independant issue: Ideally, my script will check for the HTTP_REFERER, and provide content only if it matches a 'hard-coded' variable. This script will be 'activated' through a link created from (probably) dynamic content provided by another cgi program. Is there a way to guarantee the the Referring Document will indeed provide the HTTP_REFERER environment variable to my cgi script? If this question is not appropriate for this mailing list, than I hope that you will forgive me and perhaps someone will point me in the right direction. Regards -- Tim Johnson http://www.alaska-internet-solutions.com http://www.johnsons-web.com From magnus@thinkware.se Tue Jan 28 17:59:01 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Tue Jan 28 17:59:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Python and Tcl/Tk In-Reply-To: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E09702383@i2km11-ukbr.domain1 .systemhost.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030128200648.0298bce0@www.thinkware.se> At 16:00 2003-01-28 +0000, alan.gauld@bt.com wrote: >Oooh, I have to jump to Tcl's defence here :-) Good! I rarely meet Tclers these days. > > Tcl is only intended for small tasks and to glue larger > > programs (written in C or whatever) together. > >Not entirely true, the latest versions of Tcl can scale to >quite large projects now it has OO and module support. >But I do still favour Python for that role. If you say so... but it was John Osterhout who wrote that: "I think that Stallman's objections to Tcl may stem largely from one aspect of Tcl's design that he either doesn't understand or doesn't agree with. This is the proposition that you should use *two* languages for a large software system: one, such as C or C++, for manipulating the complex internal data structures where performance is key, and another, such as Tcl, for writing small-ish scripts that tie together the C pieces and are used for extensions." He wrote that in 1994 though. Maybe he changed his mind later? Or was his statement then just his feeble defence for Tcl shortcomings until he had repaired them? A brief review of Tcl scalabilty and related problems would be interesting. > > It needs to live in symbiosis with another language, where > > the "real" programs are written. > >Not at all true. there are many standalone Tcl scripts >around, most famously expect. I'd say that expect is a perfect example of what I meant. Expect is used to provide access to other programs. It's as glue as it gets! Sorry if I was unclear. > > You can do everything Tcl can in Python > >This isn't true. In Tcl irts easy to redefine the bahaviour >of the language at a level Python can't approach - redefine >how the if statement works, or a while loop etc. Whether >doing such things is wise is another matter entirely! > >Self modifying code is also easier to write in TCL - and >the same caveat applies! I was unclear again. Sorry. What I meant to say was that if there is a problem where tcl can provide a solution, python can be used to provide a solution as well. I didn't mean that you would do it in an equally weird way. ;) I'll make a reservation for embedded use where space is an important factor. Python might be too big for some applications. This ability to redefine the way the language works is a mixed blessing to put it mildly. > > really tried, but it seems to me that using Tcl to interface > > to programs where you need to access and communicate with > > complex data structures would be a little like trying to build > > model airplanes with thick wool mittens... > >Not sure why you think that. Tcl can handle complex structures >pretty well. Certainly C unions and structs are handled OK. >And classes map to Tcl classes. It seems Tcl has evolved a bit since I last looked at it. I thought OO features like classes only existed in extensions like [incr Tcl]. As far as I understand these extensions might cause compatibility problems with other Tcl/Tk libraries since they change the language, introducing scopes. I have this vague memory of horror stories from people who tried to use [incr Tk] widgets in applications that previously were "classic" Tcl/Tk apps. But I guess it's difficult to make *any* firm statement about features in a language where you can change how the basic building blocks behave in runtime. > > On the other hand, I think Tcl is smaller, which might be > > a good thing on a palmtop or in an embedded appliance etc. > >Much smaller. The ActiveTcl package at ActiveState isn't so terribly small though. But I assume that includes a lot that you can strip out. Although that is true about Python as well. So, how small does it get? Can it run in a PDA? With classes and stuff? Or are we back to stripped and/or old versions? >Too true, finding good Tcl books is not hard but there are few >of them and the language is tending to outpace the authors. >(But the same is true of Python book currency) You don't need to develop the language a lot to outpace the book authors if the newest books are four years old. Roughly 30 books about Python have been published after 1999. Regarding Python, version 2.3 doesn't change as much as the previous releases did, so it might be time for the authors to catch up now... But there ARE Python books that are fairly current, covering version 2.2. The 3rd edition of the Welch book covers 8.2 though... Not too bad I guess, but if you don't want t brick, and look for O'Reilly book for instance, I think you get something like 8.0 which as fairly dated. > > A fading star? > >A niche player... So how do you judge the vitality of the Tcl community today? Compared to Python? I seems python's growth is beginning to flatten out. But I think there is a chance that it will make another surge. For Tcl it seems to be downhill to me, like Delphi and soon Visual Basic. Not quite like Fortran, COBOL and good old ADA, but it'll come... In the middle of the 90's Tcl/Tk got a lot of attention--it was a cool way to build Unix GUIs, and Sun obviously showed a lot of interest. Now, I don't hear a lot about it. I just notice that it's alive from the fact that new Python versions use newer Tcl versions for Tkinter. Today, the mainstream is all involved in Java, C++ and C#. The volume in free development tools is in Perl and PHP, with Python and Ruby as the slightly cooler and smarter options, and the little Lisp community is just like the good old HP calculator freaks in school. They will never die... >Tcl does have native compilation (and >Java byte code support) in its favour too (as does Python >via Jython and py2exe etc). Is this real native compilation to machine code, or is it py2exe style cheating? >Which is the Tcl idiom. In that regard its a bit like Lisp >which also encourages a fine grained functional approach. Do you think this is good? >In its niche (an embedded extensible macro language) it is >still the best tool around IMHO. Right, this is actually another niche than the glue and Tk GUIs I mentioned. Assuming we are in a normal computer, with a resonable amount of money, what is the main advantage with Tcl compared to Python? Python swims in this water too, you know... ;) There is a list of top ten reasons to use Tcl at http://www.tcl.tk/advocacy/top10.html It has headlines as listed below. It's curious that Python and Tcl seem so similar when you look at those headlines, and are still very different languages, with a big difference in scope in my opinion. 1. Rapid development All they say here could as well have been said about Python. See http://www.ipd.uka.de/~prechelt/Biblio/jccpprt_computer2000.pdf for an objective comparision. In that study, Python and Tcl programs were more or less equally fast to develop, with just a slight advantage for Python, but the Tcl programs used much more memory and ran slower. 2. Graphical user interfaces With Tcl, you only have Tk and it's extensions. It seems Tix might be getting somewhere, but it still seems to me that wxPython has much more features than Tk + Tix and others. 3. Cross-platform applications I think there is a draw here. 4. Extensible applications This is what Alan mentions above. Python can obviously do this as well. I can't judge the respective merits of either approach. In all honesty I never even did this with Python. 5. Flexible integration Python works as glue, just as Tcl does. There are even Python programs that work more or less like expect. I don't think they work under Windows though, but does expect? 6. Ready for the enterprise Here they claim that Tcl is the only scripting language with "all the facilities needed for enterprise applications, which include internationalization, thread safety, cross-platform portability, great GUI capabilities, embeddability, Internet support, and database access." Funny... What is it that python doesn't have here? Python is no speed daemon, but Tcl is worse. Does Tcl have application development frameworks like Zope or Twisted? Are there business libraries/toolkits etc like 4Suite, ReportLab etc in Tcl/Tk? 7. Testing I've certainly used Python a lot for this. It works very well here in my opinion. 8. Easy to learn Hm... I've heard that about Python. 9. Network-aware applications "No platform has easier to use networking facilities than Tcl." So, why are Zope and Twisted written in Python? Where are the big Tcl network killer applications hiding? 10. The Tcl community I can't compare the helpfulness or professionalism of these two communities, but I know about the Python one... If we look at the free software community, Freshmeat lists almost 900 Python projects and a little over 300 Tcl projects. At sourceforge there are 600 Tcl projects and 2100 Python projects. So, despite an longer time, a period of fame in big business and a much earlier inroad into the business world, it seems Python is much bigger today. 11 BONUS: It's free! Very unique! ;) -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From tim@johnsons-web.com Tue Jan 28 20:49:02 2003 From: tim@johnsons-web.com (Tim Johnson) Date: Tue Jan 28 20:49:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Python and Tcl/Tk/more In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030128200648.0298bce0@www.thinkware.se> References: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E09702383@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20030128200648.0298bce0@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <20030129015258.GZ16215@johnsons-web.com> Hello (My two cents worth): I moved from a primarily C/C++ development platform 3 years ago in the direction of primarily rebol and secondarily python. Rebol is hugely productive and in terms of 'raw' productivity, I truly believe that it runs rings around python. Like TCL, it has a small footprint and control structures are themselves functions, rather than immutable part of the language syntax. What's more, is likely that rebol has many more features than TCL (from what I gather from this thread). So why may you ask am I starting to implement python modules into my 'mostly-rebol' projects? The answer is for one thing, I think that python will scale better, and is more 'disciplined' IMHO. Also python interacts well with many non-proprietory resources, while rebol is more proprietory (comparing compression resources and graphic interfaces, as an example) My partner programs in perl. Although there are little similarities in syntax, perl and rebol are 'looser' (my terms) and with each "there are many ways to do one thing". The corrolary of this is that, where it seems to take me longer to write python code, it is more likely to do just what I want it to do. So as my works grows, it is likely that python will play a larger and larger role. It is possible that I will be writing rebol programs that write out python code as input. I think that one sells onself short if one focuses on one and only one programming language. Besides there are many times that a single project that I work on has many processes and communication between those processes is being done in a 'cross-platform' and 'cross-language' medium. It is thus, less critical that I must use only one language source. And programming languages have a way of informing one other, it enriches my life to be acquainted with a larger number of them. Regards. * Magnus Lycka [030128 14:10]: > At 16:00 2003-01-28 +0000, alan.gauld@bt.com wrote: > >Oooh, I have to jump to Tcl's defence here :-) > > Good! I rarely meet Tclers these days. > > >> Tcl is only intended for small tasks and to glue larger > >> programs (written in C or whatever) together. > > > >Not entirely true, the latest versions of Tcl can scale to > >quite large projects now it has OO and module support. > >But I do still favour Python for that role. > > If you say so... but it was John Osterhout who wrote that: > > "I think that Stallman's objections to Tcl may stem largely > from one aspect of Tcl's design that he either doesn't > understand or doesn't agree with. This is the proposition > that you should use *two* languages for a large software > system: one, such as C or C++, for manipulating the complex > internal data structures where performance is key, and another, > such as Tcl, for writing small-ish scripts that tie together > the C pieces and are used for extensions." > > He wrote that in 1994 though. Maybe he changed his mind > later? Or was his statement then just his feeble defence > for Tcl shortcomings until he had repaired them? > > A brief review of Tcl scalabilty and related problems would > be interesting. > > >> It needs to live in symbiosis with another language, where > >> the "real" programs are written. > > > >Not at all true. there are many standalone Tcl scripts > >around, most famously expect. > > I'd say that expect is a perfect example of what I meant. > Expect is used to provide access to other programs. It's > as glue as it gets! Sorry if I was unclear. > > >> You can do everything Tcl can in Python > > > >This isn't true. In Tcl irts easy to redefine the bahaviour > >of the language at a level Python can't approach - redefine > >how the if statement works, or a while loop etc. Whether > >doing such things is wise is another matter entirely! > > > >Self modifying code is also easier to write in TCL - and > >the same caveat applies! > > I was unclear again. Sorry. What I meant to say was that if > there is a problem where tcl can provide a solution, python > can be used to provide a solution as well. I didn't mean that > you would do it in an equally weird way. ;) > > I'll make a reservation for embedded use where space is > an important factor. Python might be too big for some > applications. > > This ability to redefine the way the language works is a > mixed blessing to put it mildly. > > >> really tried, but it seems to me that using Tcl to interface > >> to programs where you need to access and communicate with > >> complex data structures would be a little like trying to build > >> model airplanes with thick wool mittens... > > > >Not sure why you think that. Tcl can handle complex structures > >pretty well. Certainly C unions and structs are handled OK. > >And classes map to Tcl classes. > > It seems Tcl has evolved a bit since I last looked at it. I > thought OO features like classes only existed in extensions > like [incr Tcl]. As far as I understand these extensions might > cause compatibility problems with other Tcl/Tk libraries since > they change the language, introducing scopes. I have this vague > memory of horror stories from people who tried to use [incr Tk] > widgets in applications that previously were "classic" Tcl/Tk > apps. > > But I guess it's difficult to make *any* firm statement about > features in a language where you can change how the basic > building blocks behave in runtime. > > >> On the other hand, I think Tcl is smaller, which might be > >> a good thing on a palmtop or in an embedded appliance etc. > > > >Much smaller. > > The ActiveTcl package at ActiveState isn't so terribly small > though. But I assume that includes a lot that you can strip out. > Although that is true about Python as well. > > So, how small does it get? Can it run in a PDA? With classes > and stuff? Or are we back to stripped and/or old versions? > > >Too true, finding good Tcl books is not hard but there are few > >of them and the language is tending to outpace the authors. > >(But the same is true of Python book currency) > > You don't need to develop the language a lot to outpace the > book authors if the newest books are four years old. Roughly > 30 books about Python have been published after 1999. Regarding > Python, version 2.3 doesn't change as much as the previous > releases did, so it might be time for the authors to catch up > now... > > But there ARE Python books that are fairly current, covering > version 2.2. The 3rd edition of the Welch book covers 8.2 > though... Not too bad I guess, but if you don't want t brick, > and look for O'Reilly book for instance, I think you get > something like 8.0 which as fairly dated. > > >> A fading star? > > > >A niche player... > > So how do you judge the vitality of the Tcl community today? > Compared to Python? I seems python's growth is beginning to > flatten out. But I think there is a chance that it will make > another surge. > > For Tcl it seems to be downhill to me, like Delphi and soon > Visual Basic. Not quite like Fortran, COBOL and good old ADA, > but it'll come... > > In the middle of the 90's Tcl/Tk got a lot of attention--it > was a cool way to build Unix GUIs, and Sun obviously showed > a lot of interest. Now, I don't hear a lot about it. I just > notice that it's alive from the fact that new Python versions > use newer Tcl versions for Tkinter. > > Today, the mainstream is all involved in Java, C++ and C#. > The volume in free development tools is in Perl and PHP, with > Python and Ruby as the slightly cooler and smarter options, > and the little Lisp community is just like the good old HP > calculator freaks in school. They will never die... > > >Tcl does have native compilation (and > >Java byte code support) in its favour too (as does Python > >via Jython and py2exe etc). > > Is this real native compilation to machine code, or is it > py2exe style cheating? > > >Which is the Tcl idiom. In that regard its a bit like Lisp > >which also encourages a fine grained functional approach. > > Do you think this is good? > > >In its niche (an embedded extensible macro language) it is > >still the best tool around IMHO. > > Right, this is actually another niche than the glue and > Tk GUIs I mentioned. > > Assuming we are in a normal computer, with a resonable amount > of money, what is the main advantage with Tcl compared to > Python? Python swims in this water too, you know... ;) > > There is a list of top ten reasons to use Tcl at > http://www.tcl.tk/advocacy/top10.html > > It has headlines as listed below. It's curious that Python and > Tcl seem so similar when you look at those headlines, and are > still very different languages, with a big difference in scope > in my opinion. > > 1. Rapid development > > All they say here could as well have been said about Python. See > http://www.ipd.uka.de/~prechelt/Biblio/jccpprt_computer2000.pdf > for an objective comparision. In that study, Python and Tcl > programs were more or less equally fast to develop, with just > a slight advantage for Python, but the Tcl programs used much > more memory and ran slower. > > 2. Graphical user interfaces > > With Tcl, you only have Tk and it's extensions. It seems Tix > might be getting somewhere, but it still seems to me that > wxPython has much more features than Tk + Tix and others. > > 3. Cross-platform applications > > I think there is a draw here. > > 4. Extensible applications > > This is what Alan mentions above. Python can obviously do > this as well. I can't judge the respective merits of either > approach. In all honesty I never even did this with Python. > > 5. Flexible integration > > Python works as glue, just as Tcl does. There are even Python > programs that work more or less like expect. I don't think > they work under Windows though, but does expect? > > 6. Ready for the enterprise > > Here they claim that Tcl is the only scripting language with > "all the facilities needed for enterprise applications, which > include internationalization, thread safety, cross-platform > portability, great GUI capabilities, embeddability, Internet > support, and database access." Funny... > > What is it that python doesn't have here? > > Python is no speed daemon, but Tcl is worse. Does Tcl have > application development frameworks like Zope or Twisted? > > Are there business libraries/toolkits etc like 4Suite, > ReportLab etc in Tcl/Tk? > > 7. Testing > > I've certainly used Python a lot for this. It works very > well here in my opinion. > > 8. Easy to learn > > Hm... I've heard that about Python. > > 9. Network-aware applications > > "No platform has easier to use networking facilities than > Tcl." So, why are Zope and Twisted written in Python? > Where are the big Tcl network killer applications hiding? > > 10. The Tcl community > > I can't compare the helpfulness or professionalism of > these two communities, but I know about the Python one... > > If we look at the free software community, Freshmeat > lists almost 900 Python projects and a little over 300 > Tcl projects. At sourceforge there are 600 Tcl projects > and 2100 Python projects. So, despite an longer time, > a period of fame in big business and a much earlier > inroad into the business world, it seems Python is much > bigger today. > > 11 BONUS: It's free! > > Very unique! ;) > > > -- > Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB > Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN > phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 > http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se > > > _______________________________________________ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor -- Tim Johnson http://www.alaska-internet-solutions.com http://www.johnsons-web.com From BranimirP@cpas.com Tue Jan 28 23:17:01 2003 From: BranimirP@cpas.com (Branimir Petrovic) Date: Tue Jan 28 23:17:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Zip-ing files/folders - collecting opinions Message-ID: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D41A6406@RIKER> Hi All, I am trying to put together somethin' littl' in Python that would do archiving of potentially large files and/or large folder structures on Windows platform. WinZip and its command line add-on (wzzip.exe) works fine up to 4 GB size limit, therefore can't do what I'd like it to do... My archiving script must be able to compress large 10 GB+ Oracle dump files (among other things). Other option I considered, and is still in 'game', is gzip.exe - GNU's port for Win32. It works like a charm on large files and it can be 'driven' via popen. But... But gzip compresses files one by one in place, leaving behind N *.gz files if folder had N files for compressing. Moreover gzip leaves directories intact - it does not 'know' how to put everything (folders AND files) in one big archive file (like wzzip can). Oh, by the way - I've discovered (preferred - hard way) that GNU's tar port for Win32 breaks down upon reaching 2 GB boundary!? Therefore tar-ing everything together prior to gzip-ing on Windows platform does not work for my purpose either. Puthon's zipfile standard library seems to be fine - performance is close to gzip.exe's plus it can do additional trick - it can add multiple files in one archive which is a mixed blessing since gunzip.exe does not know how to deal with these (should someone unsuspectingly try to unzip it using gunzip.exe). But like gzip - Python's zipfile library seems not to be able do deal with folders. It can not compress whole folder structure in one large archive. My questions are: a) Am I missing something with zipfile library, may be it can compress/uncompress folder structure in one large zip file? b) Should I rather 'close the nose' and do it gzip.exe's way - M folders with up to N *.gz files in each after popen returns (and rest assured that gunzip can always recursively un-zip them)? c) Add all files found in each folder to archive and end up with just one large zip file in each folder (keeping the folder structure intact, and deleting source files), use WinZip for de-archiving (or Python in rare cases when individual archived file expands over 4 GB limit)? If I missed something obvious, or if you have better idea or approach, please let me know. Branimir From Simon.Wittber@perth.maptek.com.au Tue Jan 28 23:34:02 2003 From: Simon.Wittber@perth.maptek.com.au (Simon Wittber (Maptek)) Date: Tue Jan 28 23:34:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Zip-ing files/folders - collecting opinions Message-ID: <10F0E58C0018054484E329DC494C4D7F01BD58@mexper1> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2C74F.61349F94 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >I am trying to put together somethin' littl' in Python=20 >that would do archiving of potentially large files and/ >or large folder structures on Windows platform.=20 I'm not sure my idea or approach is any better, but it is quite nifty! It's a small program which zips up a directory structure into an python program. You then run the generated python program to expand the tree. Have a look, you might get some more ideas. 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You've all been very helpful. Can anyone point me to a more appropriate forum? I need ideas on how to (begin to) programmatically identify elements of a bibliographic reference. By elements, I mean authors/editors, their names (givenname, surname, suffix), article/chapter titles, book/journal titles, date of publication, volume number, start and end page numbers, publisher name and publisher location, etc. Has anyone done something similar? Do you know others who have? Can you point me to discussions on the web on the subject if there are? examples of bibliographic entries we get: (I modified the names and some of the titles) Ezequiel III JG, Garcia EA. Identifying elements of a bibliographic reference. J Nerv Ment Dis. 1990;178:123-40. Justin G. Ezequiel and Edna A. Garcia, Pattern Matching, 2nd ed., John Wiley & Sons, 1982. J. Ezequiel III, et al., Mater. Sci. Eng. A 328-329 (1997) 157. J.G. Ezequiel and E.A. Garcia. Modelling and Enactment of Whatever. In J. Garcia Ezequiel, editor, Application and Theory of Whatever 2001, volume 123 of Lecture Notes in Whatever, pages 11-15. Springer-Verlag, Berlin, 1993. From alan.gauld@bt.com Wed Jan 29 06:09:01 2003 From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com) Date: Wed Jan 29 06:09:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Python and Tcl/Tk Message-ID: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E0974DAA4@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> > If you say so... but it was John Osterhout who wrote that: > > that you should use *two* languages for a large software I think that is still Ousterhouts view but there are plenty of Tcl'ers who are going the dedicated Tcl route. > later? Or was his statement then just his feeble defence > for Tcl shortcomings until he had repaired them? Ousterhout is not the sole owner of Tcl to the extent that Guido is for Python. He owns the core language but because that can be changed in Tcl its easy for add on facilities to be crafted in by "entyhusiastic amateurs"... BLT would be a good example. > I'd say that expect is a perfect example of what I meant. > Expect is used to provide access to other programs. It's > as glue as it gets! Sorry if I was unclear. OK, but expect is a tool for robotically driving other programs not interacting at the code level which is what I thought you meant. Sun also have a bnch of networking/server admin tools written in pure Tcl, but many of them drive other tools under the hood so in the real worlds I might concede this one :-) > > > You can do everything Tcl can in Python > I was unclear again. Sorry. What I meant to say was that if > there is a problem where tcl can provide a solution, python > can be used to provide a solution as well. In the sense that any Turing complete language can do so, yes. In that respect anything that Python can do can be done in vim macro language too - and I don't mean with Python built in as the macro language (have we ever mentioned that feature of vim before?) > >Not sure why you think that. Tcl can handle complex structures > >pretty well. Certainly C unions and structs are handled OK. > >And classes map to Tcl classes. > > It seems Tcl has evolved a bit since I last looked at it. In the last 3 or 4 years Tcl has leapt forward. I think it was the move to 8.x which was even more radical than Pythons jump to 2.x. > thought OO features like classes only existed in extensions > like [incr Tcl]. There are two main Tcl OOP extensions, and yes that is how they are implemented. The code looks very much like a C++ class definition but is, of course, just a single line of Tcl... > cause compatibility problems with other Tcl/Tk libraries since > they change the language, introducing scopes. I didn't say there were no issues! Just that the mechanisms are there and lots of experience to help use them. > memory of horror stories from people who tried to use [incr Tk] > widgets in applications that previously were "classic" Tcl/Tk > apps. I wouldn't use [incr Tk] personally, Tk already is in what Ousterhout calls an OO style and trying to wrap one OO paradigm inside another, different one, spounds like a really bad idea to me. But [incr Tcl] (which, for non Tcl'ers, is a Tcl joke on C++ since it means the same syntactically) I've used [incr Tcl] without problems. > >Much smaller. > > The ActiveTcl package at ActiveState isn't so terribly small Yeah but has oodles of tools/extensions. Raw Tcl is only a few hundred kilobytes if all you want to do is embed it - see the tcl80.dll file that ships with python. > Although that is true about Python as well. Yes but its still bigger at the minimal level. > So, how small does it get? Can it run in a PDA? Easily, but then so can Python, see the Palm version... > Or are we back to stripped and/or old versions? Not old versions but obviously the more extensions you add the bigger it gets. > So how do you judge the vitality of the Tcl community today? > Compared to Python? Like I say its a niche. Those who have settled for Tcl are actively using and developing it. Take a look at the traffic on c.l.tcl But I suspect Python is more active and probably has more users nowadays. > For Tcl it seems to be downhill to me, like Delphi and soon > Visual Basic. Delphi is actually growing again due to Kylix. But that will be short term I fear. VB, I suspect, is here for the long haul - unless Bill G leaves Microsoft! > a lot of interest. Now, I don't hear a lot about it. Yes, it has settled into its niche. It has about 4 years advantage over Python so maybe in 4 years time Python will stabilize in a similar fashion. It also was radical in its day as being the first language designed fron the ground up to be embedded as glue inside another language application. I suspect the history books will recognise Tcl mainly for its innovation factor than for any long term staying power. > Today, the mainstream is all involved in Java, C++ and C#. And COBOL - still more programmers using COBOL than any other language... > Python and Ruby as the slightly cooler and smarter options, There are certainly far more active Tcl'ers than active Rubyists. > and the little Lisp community is just like the good old HP > calculator freaks in school. They will never die... Indeed, and Smalltalk, and aybe someday Tcl... > >Tcl does have native compilation (and > Is this real native compilation to machine code, or is it > py2exe style cheating? I don't know, I suspect the latter. I don't see how you could genuinly compile Tcl to machine code without an amazingly intelligent optimiser. But the key thing it does is convert types from strings etc and does seem to give much more of a speed up than py2exe achieves. I think its a combination of Pythons bytecode compiler and py2exe - but thats guesswork based on observed results not any inside knowlredge. > >Which is the Tcl idiom. In that regard its a bit like Lisp > >which also encourages a fine grained functional approach. > > Do you think this is good? I don't think its bad, its just another way of working. Forth did exactly the same. In fact, thinking about it, I'd say Tcl is like a modern version of Forth. Probably the best description I can come up with. > > of money, what is the main advantage with Tcl compared to > Python? Python swims in this water too, you know... ;) Tcl is, in my experience, easier than Python to embed. But not that much easier. Its comparative and subjective. If you have already done it with Python and not woith Tcl then you might get the opposite result! > There is a list of top ten reasons to use Tcl at > http://www.tcl.tk/advocacy/top10.html Yes, an old list and hardly objective :-) The Ruby gang have a similar list on their web site... > programs that work more or less like expect. I don't think > they work under Windows though, but does expect? expect does work in Win32 yes. > Python is no speed daemon, but Tcl is worse. This is true, Tcl is slow. > Does Tcl have application development frameworks like Zope or Twisted? I wouldn't be surprised but thats not how I use Tcl so I haven't looked. > Are there business libraries/toolkits etc like 4Suite, > ReportLab etc in Tcl/Tk? There are certainly numerical processing libraries like PyNum etc. Dunno about the others mentioned. > 8. Easy to learn > > Hm... I've heard that about Python. Python is *much* easier to learn than Tcl. Tcl has some really obscure rules about what gets executed when. Thesecare necessary because of its single line/command philosophy but it forces beginners(and experts!) to think like the interpreter. This is not a good learning environment - unless you are learning about language interpreters! In summary, Tcl is good for a small set of problems. For an even smaller subset it may even be better than Python. But I see no compelling reason for anyone to learn Tcl other than that it offers an interesting alternative style of programming. The same is true of Lisp or Smalltalk. Alan g. Author of the Learn to Program website http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ From alan.gauld@bt.com Wed Jan 29 06:19:01 2003 From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com) Date: Wed Jan 29 06:19:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Python and Tcl/Tk/more Message-ID: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E0970238C@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> > I think that one sells onself short if one focuses > on one and only one programming language. I totally agree (and I suspect Magnus does too!). I have never worked on a paying project that was implemented in only one language. Most have at least 3, and one had 12 different programming languages being used across a team of >150 developers located in 6 cities in 3 countries... Alan G. From magnus@thinkware.se Wed Jan 29 06:54:02 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Wed Jan 29 06:54:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] string parsing In-Reply-To: <01C2C7AE.E98D8C80@pc7486> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030129105954.02bd2e80@www.thinkware.se> At 15:55 2003-01-29 +0800, Justin Ezequiel wrote: >I need ideas on how to (begin to) programmatically identify >elements of a bibliographic reference. If you get them on the free form given below, I don't honestly think it's possible to identify these elements programmatically in a reliable way. I think you *might* end up as a case for J Nerv Ment Dis. if you try! ;) But what do you mean by "(begin to)". Did you have something semi-manual in mind? It's obviously possible to make guesses. You can recognize years for instance. As you parse (more or less manually) you will build up a knowledge of names for publishers, journals and authors. These could be used to guess what elements certain character sequences belong to. I've had a similar "machine-learning" idea for translation. I could probably patent what's coming now, but I place it in the public domain. Software patents are evil. Really! I see some kind of GUI application where different elements are marked with different background colours etc. Green for author, yellow for title, blue for publisher or whatever. From start, the application is pretty clueless. You manually mark the relevant parts of the bibliography by for instance typing a key (a for author, t for title etc) and cliking on the relevant part, which will then be coloured accordingly. As you work, the program will remember things like: Garcia is a name, 1997 is a year, Pattern Matching is a title. The next time you see an entry with Garcia, it will be marked green. If this happens to be a book about Garcia, you will have to press t and click on Garcia to correct this. Obviously you can preload the program with some knowledge, like 1000 to 2100 being years, Smith, Jones and van Rossum being names, Springer Verlag being a publisher etc. When the computer program is trying to match stuff, it will begin with the longest sequences it can remember, and then try with shorter. If it finds the same word in several categories in the database, it will suggest the category where it occurs more often. This would certainly be faster than to type everything in from scratch, or to cut and paste from a text to some kind of database form. I can well imagine that you will have a dual view though. On the left, you have your free format entry, and on the right, you have a form, like in a database application, with labels and text entry fields that are updated as you click in the free form. You could also edit the form directly, but that would put the free text and the form out of sych I guess... >examples of bibliographic entries we get: >(I modified the names and some of the titles) > >Ezequiel III JG, Garcia EA. Identifying elements of a >bibliographic reference. J Nerv Ment Dis. 1990;178:123-40. > >Justin G. Ezequiel and Edna A. Garcia, Pattern Matching, 2nd >ed., John Wiley & Sons, 1982. > >J. Ezequiel III, et al., Mater. Sci. Eng. A 328-329 (1997) >157. > >J.G. Ezequiel and E.A. Garcia. Modelling and Enactment of >Whatever. In J. Garcia Ezequiel, editor, Application and >Theory of Whatever 2001, volume 123 of Lecture Notes in >Whatever, pages 11-15. Springer-Verlag, Berlin, 1993. A better option might be to take those who give you these lists into an elevator, stop it between floors, and ask them in a very soft and sweet voice if they could consider using a bibliographic tool such as BibTex or EndNote instead of giving you that "free" format. Don't forget to bring a baseball bat. The laws of Thermodynamics have to be considered after all. I'm sure the authors of that text has a low enthropy view of this to start with. They have well structured information, and know very well that Springer Verlag is a publisher of scientific journals, Berlin is a location (where Springer is in this case) etc. They raise the enthropy by removing this informations. Why? Why don't they reorder the letters in the words as well? Verler Springag isn't much worse than what they did! OK, there is a plan B as well. I'm not sure the citations are as bad as you seem to claim. Where do you get these from? I assume it's from scientific publications. They don't all have a common format, but each Journal is usually consistent in the format that is used for their citations. Of course, if you scan paper to plain text, you might raise the enthropy even more by removing cues like whether texts is bold etc. Still, by knowing the bibliographic entry format for a certain publication, you will know in what order fields will occur. The problem is that you don't know where one field ends and the next begins, or which fields are applicable for this very entry... If you had just had some kind of field separators... -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From magnus@thinkware.se Wed Jan 29 09:15:02 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Wed Jan 29 09:15:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Python and Tcl/Tk/more In-Reply-To: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E0970238C@i2km11-ukbr.domain1 .systemhost.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030129130532.02bad9a8@www.thinkware.se> At 11:17 2003-01-29 +0000, alan.gauld@bt.com wrote: > > I think that one sells onself short if one focuses > > on one and only one programming language. > >I totally agree (and I suspect Magnus does too!). Sure! But I have to admit that I have done very little in other languages that Python the last two years, and when I have to, I typically get disappointed about the other tools. For instance I had to do some Perl. Great I though, I did Perl before I found Python, but it used to be fun. It's not such a different bird compared to Python, just more arcane syntax etc... Unfortunately I wasn't wearing the Camel book, and after five years of absence, I didn't have a clue about how to dereference values in a list of lists. :( None of the Perl "hackers" at that location had ever done such "magic" either. They just stared at me. For those who haven't done Perl, I just wanted to do something like: l = [ [1, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6], [7, 8, 9] ] for m in l: for n in m: print n This involves some special incantations called dereferencing in Perl. The "Camel Book" by Larry Wall spends three pages explaining the common mistakes in such an advanced feat. Seriously! These pages are full of this-that-seems-correct- won't-work-but-that-dangerous-looking-code-works-and-is- more-efficient... There is no way you can guess how to do this right based on simple Perl experience where you have used lists, but never nested them inside each other. I'm not joking! Some time ago, I help a physician with an Excel application. Some VBA ought to be trivial. After all, the big "secret" is that you use the macro recording feature of Excel to produce most of the code for you, and then you just modify what you need, and tie things together, calling functions from buttons etc. The problem is that a lot of code ran once, and then choked on the second attempt! In some cases this was probably because of contexts issues. A piece of code might work in Excel 2000 every time, but in Excel 97 it will only work if a certain worksheet in the workbook is active, even though the worksheet is explicitly addressed in the code, and the docs make no mention of activating the sheet, and even though it worked regardless of what sheet was active, when you replay the recorded macro (that was just moved to another function). There are also glaring differences between the docs and how things works in real life. The docs consitently use Worksheets("Sheet 1"), but if you type that, Excel doesn't know what you are after, you have to type Sheets("Sheet 1"). Also, in the middle of typing, if you leave the line unfinshed to copy some text from another line, you will get a captive dialog that tells you that your code is in error. Doh! For some problems, the error message alternated between two completely different and both unhelpful messages on every other run. Sometimes, VBA complained that it couldn't find the methods I wanted in range objects. Have you heard about classes suddenly dropping methods in other languages? Maybe it actually failed to find the right object, but it said things like "The Range object doesn't have a Sort attribute". When I run into these things I feel so happy about Python. I certanly don't hesitate to use C, C++ or SQL where it's useful, and some Java at times. I don't worry about editing shell scripts, but if I have to write new script I will write them in Python almost all the time. PHP has really boomed, and become much bigger than Python, but I must admit, that if I find an interesting applications that is implemented in PHP (or Perl) I will take another look to see if there is something good enough implemented in Python. I might do some more MS Office / VBA work, but it's not a preference. I had a look at Ruby, but left it alone. I'm thinking about trying to learn OCaml, partly because I use an application called GeneWeb written in that language. Hm... I guess I'll have a look at Rebol. I've been put off by the fact that it's proprietary, but taking a peek can't hurt, can it? >I have never worked on a paying project that was implemented >in only one language. Most have at least 3, Really? Well, if you do relational databases you will at least have SQL and one more I guess. C++, Java and SQL is a fairly common trio I guess. And if you integrate with an old system, some COBOL is likely to be involved as well I guess... >and one >had 12 different programming languages being used >across a team of >150 developers located in 6 cities >in 3 countries... How convenient... ;) -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From Deirdre Hackett" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C2C7B1.C22D9060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I want to use pickle module import pickle =20 f =3D open('/Python22/testing3.txt', 'w') data =3D [23,34,34] pickle.dump(data,f) I want to write data to the file testing3.txt. =20 I tried f.write(data) but you are only allowed to write strings to the = file and it said in the documentation that pickle was the way to do it. Not sure where to go here. Thanks=20 Dee ------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C2C7B1.C22D9060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I want to use pickle = module

import=20 pickle

=20

f =3D = open('/Python22/testing3.txt',=20 'w')

data =3D=20 [23,34,34]

pickle.dump(data,f)

I want to write data = to=20 the file testing3.txt.

I tried = f.write(data) but=20 you are only allowed to write strings to the file and it said in the=20 documentation that pickle was the way to do it.

Not sure where to go here.

Thanks

Dee

------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C2C7B1.C22D9060-- From BranimirP@cpas.com Wed Jan 29 11:19:03 2003 From: BranimirP@cpas.com (Branimir Petrovic) Date: Wed Jan 29 11:19:03 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Zip-ing files/folders - collecting opinions Message-ID: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D41A6408@RIKER> > -----Original Message----- > From: Simon Wittber (Maptek) > > I'm not sure my idea or approach is any better, but it is quite nifty! > Clever and cute little program indeed, thanks for sharing it! > It's a small program which zips up a directory structure into > an python program. You then run the generated python program to expand the tree. > > Have a look, you might get some more ideas. > > Sw. > Having a good look at your script I can now see possible use for zlib. Bare bone documentation coming with zlib is not overly helpful in figuring out how's (and why's) of putting it to good use (but this can be said with equal accuracy for most of documentation coming with std. lib. modules)... It also helped me stop fighting/resisting the idea of having many individually zipped files inside preserved folder structure. Python's zipfile module does this quite well, and with a small effort I can replicate folder structure on different location as a part of archiving process. In cases when in-place archiving is desirable - GNU's gzip 'driven' via Python script would be the way to go. Optionally, if resulting archive is smaller than 4 GB, WinZip's command line utility wzzip.exe can be used to coalesce everything into one large archive file, and that's it. Thanks for help. Branimir From Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de Wed Jan 29 11:53:02 2003 From: Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael Janssen) Date: Wed Jan 29 11:53:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Pickle Module In-Reply-To: <00d101c2c7b1$d507eb40$0400a8c0@egbert> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Deirdre Hackett wrote: > pickle.dump(data,f) > > I want to write data to the file testing3.txt. you have done it already. Perhaps you need to close the file again in order to write cached data to disk (f.close()) or do this directly via f.flush() To read the data, you need another file-object in read-mode: f = open("testing3.txt","r") data = pickle.load(f) Michael From bigal@geosci.uchicago.edu Wed Jan 29 12:19:25 2003 From: bigal@geosci.uchicago.edu (Alistair McGowan) Date: Wed Jan 29 12:19:25 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Control flow Message-ID: --============_-1168261878==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Dear All, I am trying to modify a resampling program so that I can resample without replacement. I am an old BASIC hand, so what I want to do is at the point where tally is assessed to see if that draw has already been made. If tally>0 I want to go back to the line n = random.randint(0,10) # calls random interger to get sample and try to draw a sample that I haven't picked before. This would be done with a goto in ye olden days, but I am not having much joy figuring out what I need to do in Python to handle this control flow. Thanks in advance, Al McGowan import random import array arr=[] pc1 = [] pc2 = [] pc3= [] TR = [] inp = open ("pc.tab","r") #read line into array for line in inp.readlines(): line = line.strip() # get rid of \n nums = line.split() # separate the characters nums = map(float,nums) # convert to floats for n in nums: arr.append(n) for estimate in range (0,10): # starts the cycle of reps pc1 = [] pc2 = [] pc3= [] jack = [] for sample in range (0,10): #samples the appropriate number of genera n = random.randint(0,10) # calls random interger to get sample #m=n, run through jack, if good go on if not back to sample tally = jack.count (m) if tally>0: print "go" jack.append(n) #write to jacknife check file x = n*3 #gets around spread of data in array a= arr[x] #grab appropriate data for pc1 b = arr [x+1]#grab appropriate data for pc2 c = arr [x+2] #grab appropriate data for pc3 pc1.append(a) #write sample to file pc2.append(b) #write sample to file pc3.append(c) #write sample to file trmax1 = max (pc1) trmin1 = min (pc1) trmax2 = max (pc2) trmin2 = min (pc2) trmax3 = max (pc3) trmin3 = min (pc3) one = trmax1 - trmin1 two = trmax2 - trmin2 three = trmax3 - trmin3 final = one+two+three #print estimate #print final print jack[0:] #print pc1 [0:] #print pc2 [0:] #print pc3 [0:] -- Alistair J. McGowan Department of Geophysical Sciences, University of Chicago Chicago IL 60637 Phone: 773-795-1170 Fax: 773-702-9505 "Hope is a duty from which paleontologists are exempt." David Quammen 'It's not if, it's when and how bad." Richard Keeling --============_-1168261878==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Control flow

Dear All,

I am trying to modify a resampling program so that I can resample without replacement. I am an old BASIC hand, so what I want to do is at the point where tally is assessed to see if that draw has already been made. If tally>0 I want to go back to the line

n = random.randint(0,10) # calls random interger to get sample

and try to draw a sample that I haven't picked before. This would be done with a goto in ye olden days, but I am not having much joy figuring out what I need to do in Python to handle this control flow.

Thanks in advance,

Al McGowan

import random
import array
arr=[]
pc1 = []
pc2 = []
pc3= []
TR = []
inp = open ("pc.tab","r")
#read line into array
for line in inp.readlines():
    line = line.strip()        # get rid of \n
    nums = line.split() # separate the characters
    nums = map(float,nums)     # convert to floats
    for n in nums: arr.append(n)
for estimate in range (0,10):        # starts the cycle of reps
    pc1 = []
        pc2 = []
        pc3= []
jack = []
       for sample in range (0,10):     #samples the appropriate number of genera

n = random.randint(0,10) # calls random interger to get sample
#m=n, run through jack, if good go on if not back to sample

tally = jack.count (m)

if tally>0:

print "go"

jack.append(n) #write to jacknife check file

x = n*3 #gets around spread of data in array

a= arr[x] #grab appropriate data for pc1

b = arr [x+1]#grab appropriate data for pc2

c = arr [x+2] #grab appropriate data for pc3

pc1.append(a) #write sample to file

pc2.append(b) #write sample to file

        pc3.append(c) #write sample to file
     trmax1 = max (pc1)
     trmin1 = min (pc1)
      trmax2 = max (pc2)
     trmin2 = min (pc2)
      trmax3 = max (pc3)
     trmin3 = min (pc3)
      one = trmax1 - trmin1
   two = trmax2 - trmin2
   three = trmax3 - trmin3
final = one+two+three
   #print estimate
#print final
    print jack[0:]
#print pc1 [0:]
#print pc2 [0:]
#print pc3 [0:]

--

Alistair J. McGowan
Department of Geophysical Sciences,
University of Chicago
Chicago
IL 60637

Phone: 773-795-1170
Fax: 773-702-9505

"Hope is a duty from which paleontologists are exempt."

David Quammen

'It's not if, it's when and how bad."

Richard Keeling

--============_-1168261878==_ma============-- From denis@charternavgps.ie Wed Jan 29 12:22:07 2003 From: denis@charternavgps.ie (Denis Hanley) Date: Wed Jan 29 12:22:07 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Array Message-ID: <001601c2c7ba$e893a5b0$0701a8c0@gozzy> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C2C7BA.E772CC60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear All, what I need to do is create an Array. Input Information into the Array = on the fly and then output my data in this format: LineData =3D array[x1 y1, x2 y2, x3 y3, etc] Line x1 y1 x2 y2 Line x2 y2 x3 y3 Line x3 y3 x4 y4 etc. The problem is I do not know how to do this as I am very new to Python. = Any assistance will be greatly appreciated. Denis Hanley IT & GIS Software Support Manager CharterNav GPS Ltd tel: ++353 214832990/1 fax: ++ 353 21 4832992 after hours support: ++ 353 21 4375164 or ++353 86 833 9303 denis@charternavgps.ie www.charternavgps.ie GPS House, Church Bay Road, Crosshaven, Co. Cork, Ireland ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C2C7BA.E772CC60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear All,

what I need to do is create an = Array. Input=20 Information into the Array on the fly and then output my data in this=20 format:

LineData =3D array[x1 y1, x2 y2, x3 y3, = etc]

Line x1 y1 x2 y2

Line x2 y2 x3 y3

Line x3 y3 x4 y4

etc.

The problem is I do not know how to do = this as I am=20 very new to Python. Any assistance will be greatly=20 appreciated.

Denis Hanley
IT & GIS Software = Support=20 Manager
CharterNav GPS Ltd

tel: ++353 214832990/1
fax: ++ 353 = 21=20 4832992
after hours support: ++ 353 21 4375164 or ++353 86 833 = 9303
denis@charternavgps.ie
www.charternavgps.ie

GPS House,
Church Bay=20 Road,
Crosshaven,
Co. Cork, Ireland

------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C2C7BA.E772CC60-- From magnus@thinkware.se Wed Jan 29 12:38:02 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Wed Jan 29 12:38:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Zip-ing files/folders - collecting opinions In-Reply-To: <10F0E58C0018054484E329DC494C4D7F01BD58@mexper1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030129095851.02bafd58@www.thinkware.se> At 12:32 2003-01-29 +0800, Simon Wittber (Maptek) wrote: >It's a small program which zips up a directory structure into an python >program. You then run the generated python program to expand the tree. Cute! >... >codedfile.write("exec(zlib.decompress(base64.decodestring(\"\"\"" + data + >"\"\"\")))\n") Note that exec is a statement, not a function. The kosher way to write exec statements (as print statements) is without parenthesis. codedfile.write("exec zlib.decompress(base64.decodestring(\"\"\"" + data + "\"\"\"))\n") I'm curious to hear how this works with 4 GB files... That will be a big string. -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Wed Jan 29 12:49:01 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Wed Jan 29 12:49:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] string parsing In-Reply-To: <01C2C7AE.E98D8C80@pc7486> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Justin Ezequiel wrote: > I guess this is not the right place for this question but I > do not know where else to ask. > > You've all been very helpful. > > Can anyone point me to a more appropriate forum? > > I need ideas on how to (begin to) programmatically identify > elements of a bibliographic reference. > > By elements, I mean authors/editors, their names (givenname, surname, > suffix), article/chapter titles, book/journal titles, date of > publication, volume number, start and end page numbers, publisher name > and publisher location, etc. Hi Justin, There is a project called the Freely Extensible Biomedical Record Linkage (FEBRL) which uses Hidden Markov Models to parse through address records: http://sourceforge.net/projects/febrl http://datamining.anu.edu.au/software/febrl/febrldoc/manual.html It uses some sophisticated models to match text to fields in a record. I can imagine that this software can be applied toward bibliographic entries as well! I haven't played with Febrl yet, but I'm planning to when I have more time. I hope this helps! From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Wed Jan 29 13:00:02 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Wed Jan 29 13:00:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Pickle Module In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Deirdre Hackett wrote: > > > pickle.dump(data,f) > > > > I want to write data to the file testing3.txt. Hi Deirdre, The reason pickle.dump() takes in a file as its second argument is because pickle.dump() itself will call f.write() with a stringified version of data. So there's no need to call f.write() ourselves: that's the detail that pickle is supposed to handle for us. By the way, if you haven't seen it already, you may find Patrick O'Brian's tutorial on object persistance (pickling) really useful: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-pypers.html?dwzone=linux Good luck to you! From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Wed Jan 29 13:09:28 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Wed Jan 29 13:09:28 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Array In-Reply-To: <001601c2c7ba$e893a5b0$0701a8c0@gozzy> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Denis Hanley wrote: > Dear All, > > what I need to do is create an Array. Input Information into the Array > on the fly and then output my data in this format: > > LineData = array[x1 y1, x2 y2, x3 y3, etc] > > Line x1 y1 x2 y2 > Line x2 y2 x3 y3 > Line x3 y3 x4 y4 Hi Denis, Python supports a more flexible data structure called the "List" that we can use to collect a bunch of data: http://www.python.org/doc/tut/node5.html#SECTION005140000000000000000 http://www.python.org/doc/tut/node7.html#SECTION007100000000000000000 Lists support on-the-fly appending, so they should be suitable for the task you're describing. Once you have your points stored in a List, it shouldn't be too bad to iterate between adjacent pairs and print out the Line descriptions you want. Try going through some of the List examples in the links above. If you run into problems, please feel free to send a holler on Tutor; we'll be happy to help! From jeff@ccvcorp.com Wed Jan 29 13:17:05 2003 From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon) Date: Wed Jan 29 13:17:05 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Array References: <001601c2c7ba$e893a5b0$0701a8c0@gozzy> Message-ID: <3E3818FB.6070900@ccvcorp.com> Denis Hanley wrote: > what I need to do is create an Array. Input Information into the > Array on the fly and then output my data in this format: > > LineData = array[x1 y1, x2 y2, x3 y3, etc] > > Line x1 y1 x2 y2 > Line x2 y2 x3 y3 > Line x3 y3 x4 y4 What other languages do with Arrays, Python typically does with lists. (There's some differences, and Python does actually have an Array module, but a list is usually the best translation.) It looks like in each 'slot' in your list, you have an (x,y) coordinate pair. The Python structure to use for this would typically be a tuple. So you would have a list of 2-element tuples as your basic data structure. LineData = [ (x1,y1), (x2,y2), (x3,y3), (x4,y4) ] Now, you want to proceed through that list, showing tuples in pairs. A normal for loop in Python will iterate over a sequence one-at-a-time, but that's not quite what we want. We need the index that we're at, so that we can also get the *next* element of the list -- each iteration, we want to show element N and element N+1. This means that we're going to iterate len(LineData) - 1 times, because the last element won't have a next element to pair with. We can use the range() function to generate a sequence of indexes that'll fit our needs, and then use a for loop to iterate over that sequence of indexes. Lists start indexing at 0, and range() defaults to starting its generated sequence at 0, so that works out very conveniently. Let's try it out. >>> LineData = [ (1,2), (3,4), (5,6), (7,8), (9,0) ] >>> for n in range( len(LineData)-1 ): ... print "Line %d: %s %s" % (n+1, LineData[n], LineData[n+1]) ... Line 1: (1, 2) (3, 4) Line 2: (3, 4) (5, 6) Line 3: (5, 6) (7, 8) Line 4: (7, 8) (9, 0) >>> Hope this helps! Jeff Shannon Technician/Programmer Credit International From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Wed Jan 29 13:27:23 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Wed Jan 29 13:27:23 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Control flow In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Alistair McGowan wrote: > I am trying to modify a resampling program so that I can resample > without replacement. I am an old BASIC hand, so what I want to do is at > the point where tally is assessed to see if that draw has already been > made. If tally>0 I want to go back to the line > > n = random.randint(0,10) # calls random interger to get sample Hi Alistair, I see... Ok, let's look at that block of code: ### n = random.randint(0,10) tally = jack.count (m) if tally > 0: print "go" else: ## ??? how to "goto"? ### What we'd like to do is repeat this block of code until we finally get a positive tally. We can do this by using a "while" loop: ### while 1: n = random.randint(0, 10) tally = jack.count(m) if tally > 0: print "go" break ## <--- break out of the infinite loop ### This loop has the effect of GOing back TO the beginning of the call to random.randint(), and captures the idea of waiting till we get a positive tally. By the way, we can give a descriptive "name" this block by making a "subroutine" function: ### def getPositiveTally(): while 1: n = random.randint(0, 10) tally = jack.count(m) if tally > 0: print "go" break return tally, n ### The effect of this is that we can then use it in the original code like this: ### ... # samples the appropriate number of genera for sample in range (0,10): tally, n = getPositiveTally() jack.append(n) # write to jacknife check file x = n*3 # gets around spread of data in array ... ### which simplifies the code a little bit. The tutorials at: http://python.org/doc/Newbies.html should all have sections on using 'while' loops. Please feel free to ask more questions about them! For a historical perspective, here's a link to the article "Go To Statement Considered Harmful", which was one of the defining papers pushing for alternative ways of controlling control flow: http://www.acm.org/classics/oct95/ Good luck! From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Wed Jan 29 13:30:02 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Wed Jan 29 13:30:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Control flow In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Danny Yoo wrote: > By the way, we can give a descriptive "name" this block by making a > "subroutine" function: > > ### > def getPositiveTally(): > while 1: > n = random.randint(0, 10) > tally = jack.count(m) > if tally > 0: > print "go" > break > return tally, n > ### Doh. I goofed again. I meant to write: ### def getPositiveTally(): while 1: n = random.randint(0, 10) tally = jack.count(m) if tally > 0: print "go" break return tally, n ### Sorry about that! Aside: I think one reason I goofed like that was because I was thinking of the alternative definition: ### def getPositiveTally(): while 1: n = random.randint(0, 10) tally = jack.count(m) if tally > 0: print "go" return tally, n ### and somehow, maybe, I "averaged" the indentation of both solutions... I dunno. *grin* From magnus@thinkware.se Wed Jan 29 13:35:02 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Wed Jan 29 13:35:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Array In-Reply-To: <001601c2c7ba$e893a5b0$0701a8c0@gozzy> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030129192646.02bdb268@www.thinkware.se> At 17:21 2003-01-29 +0000, Denis Hanley wrote: >what I need to do is create an Array. If you tell us what you want to achieve, we'll tell *you* what you need to create! ;) >LineData = array[x1 y1, x2 y2, x3 y3, etc] >>> lineData = [ (1,2), (3,4), (5, 6) ] >Line x1 y1 x2 y2 >Line x2 y2 x3 y3 >Line x3 y3 x4 y4 >>> pos = 0 >>> while pos < len(lineData) -1: ... print "Line", lineData[pos], lineData[pos + 1] ... pos = pos + 1 ... Line (1, 2) (3, 4) Line (3, 4) (5, 6) -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From BranimirP@cpas.com Wed Jan 29 13:44:02 2003 From: BranimirP@cpas.com (Branimir Petrovic) Date: Wed Jan 29 13:44:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Zip-ing files/folders - collecting opinions Message-ID: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D41A640C@RIKER> > -----Original Message----- > From: Magnus Lycka [mailto:magnus@thinkware.se] > Sent: January 29, 2003 12:36 PM > To: Simon Wittber (Maptek); Branimir Petrovic; tutor@python.org > Subject: RE: [Tutor] Zip-ing files/folders - collecting opinions > > > At 12:32 2003-01-29 +0800, Simon Wittber (Maptek) wrote: > >It's a small program which zips up a directory structure > into an python > >program. You then run the generated python program to expand > the tree. > > Cute! > > >... > I'm curious to hear how this works with 4 GB files... That > will be a big string. > This would probably be the longest Python program ever ;-) There is also minor issue to be fixed, namely this: outfile = file("temp." + outfilename, "w") will not work as is on Windows platform since 'outfilename' will contain no-no characters (colon after vol. name like C:), but is trivial to fix. I am wary of reading humungous 4 GB++ files in RAM, all in one large 'slurp', but the idea of bonding Python script with data is brilliant. No way to misplace re-assembling code, all needed is there - all the time. Cookbook worthy recipe! Branimir From magnus@thinkware.se Wed Jan 29 13:58:03 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Wed Jan 29 13:58:03 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Zip-ing files/folders - collecting opinions In-Reply-To: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D41A6406@RIKER> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030129194714.02c66ea8@www.thinkware.se> At 23:19 2003-01-28 -0500, Branimir Petrovic wrote: >My archiving script must be able to compress large >10 GB+ Oracle dump files (among other things). Can't you convince Oracle to spew out more and smaller files instead? 10GB files aren't so funny to play with. Another option is to split the file as you read it, and save compressed parts. chunksize = 100000000 f = file('oracle.dump', 'rb') i = 0 while 1: data = f.read(chunksize) if not data: break myWriteToZipFile(data, 'mydump_%04i.zip' % i) To restore, you'd just do: fileNames=glob.glob('mydump*.zip') fileNames.sort() f = file('restored.dump', 'rb') for fn in fileNames: data = myUnZipFromFile(fn) w.write(data) -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From BranimirP@cpas.com Wed Jan 29 14:23:01 2003 From: BranimirP@cpas.com (Branimir Petrovic) Date: Wed Jan 29 14:23:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Zip-ing files/folders - collecting opinions Message-ID: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D41A640D@RIKER> > -----Original Message----- > From: Magnus Lycka [mailto:magnus@thinkware.se] > Sent: January 29, 2003 1:56 PM > To: Branimir Petrovic; 'tutor@python.org' > Subject: Re: [Tutor] Zip-ing files/folders - collecting opinions > > > At 23:19 2003-01-28 -0500, Branimir Petrovic wrote: > >My archiving script must be able to compress large > >10 GB+ Oracle dump files (among other things). > > Can't you convince Oracle to spew out more and smaller > files instead? 10GB files aren't so funny to play > with. > Oracle can be persuaded to export parts, instead of the 'whole thing', but then simplicity in approach is lost, and new fear - didn't I forget some important piece - becomes menacing presence. > Another option is to split the file as you read it, > and save compressed parts. Splitting the file into smaller chucks would work, but only for those with the re-assembling script (or knowledge of how the splitting came to be). I was not very explicit in my post on this, but I always knew (therefore never said so;) that I'd prefer un-zipping to be as generic as possible. Joe Sixpack, the 'care taker' with our customer, should be able to unzip what I zipped once he is told over the phone how to, without overloading his grey stuff by calling uncalled for names (like Python). GNU's Win32 port with gzip/gunzip stands proud for this particular task, and so does Python with ability to produce archives in this widely accepted format. Branimir From magnus@thinkware.se Wed Jan 29 20:09:15 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Wed Jan 29 20:09:15 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Python and Tcl/Tk In-Reply-To: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E0974DAA4@i2km11-ukbr.domain1 .systemhost.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030130012532.02c11b70@www.thinkware.se> At 11:07 2003-01-29 +0000, alan.gauld@bt.com wrote: > > For Tcl it seems to be downhill to me, like Delphi and soon > > Visual Basic. > >Delphi is actually growing again due to Kylix. But that will >be short term I fear. I think so too... >VB, I suspect, is here for the long haul - unless Bill G leaves >Microsoft! I don't know... VB 1 was released in 1991, and VB 6 in 1998. Almost one new version per year. I guess there is some kind of VB.NET now, but it seems to me that the development of VB has slowed down quite a bit. And BG has been known to shift lane. Once upon a time, he spoke highly of Microsofts Smalltalk for OS/2. That was to be the next big thing. And of course, we have OS/2... And internet... And Java... Bill has no holy cows. It all started with BASIC but I doubt that he's sentimental. Let's look at the VB versions VB 1 1991 VB 2 1992 1 yr VB 3 1993 1 yr VB 4 1995 2 yrs VB 5 1997 2 yrs VB 6 1998 1 yr VB 7/.NET 2002 4 yrs since previous version... There might be a new Visual Studio in 2003, and perhaps a new version number for VB, but I doubt that much will change except pure Dotnet updates that must be integrated in VB.NET. I don't know, but I suspect VB and CSharp will aquire more and more of each other. VB will become more CSharpish, and CSharp will become more and more relaxed as all MS tools. Instead of flagging errors, they try to guess what you meant. It's the antithesis of Python's "When in doubt, refuse the temptation to guess". Anyone who developed C++ with Visual Studio for deployment on Solaris etc knows what I mean. (No it was not my idea, but I was well paid, so I won't complain...) I would imagine that C# will be the next VB, but perhaps I'm wrong. With it's Java roots, it's rather object-oriented, and that might be to difficult to grasp for many? But when Office etc is fully Dotnet enabled, VBA will be replaced by Dotnet, and you can write macros and whatever in any Dotnet capable language. At that point I imagine VB will be given little further attention. After 40 years, it's about time for BASIC to retire... -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From j.ezequiel@spitech.com Thu Jan 30 00:57:07 2003 From: j.ezequiel@spitech.com (Justin Ezequiel) Date: Thu Jan 30 00:57:07 2003 Subject: FW: [Tutor] string parsing Message-ID: <01C2C866.FFA02560@pc7486> -----Original Message----- From: Ezequiel, Justin=20 Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 1:47 PM To: 'Magnus Lycka'; 'Danny Yoo[dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu]' Cc: 'tutor@python.org' Subject: Re: [Tutor] string parsing Thanks to Magnus and Danny! Thanks to Magnus for the ideas! I will definitely give them a lot of thought and consideration. Here's a little more information on what I need. This project is for converting the full text of author-submitted = documents (including bibliographic references) to XML before = publication. Tagging of references is one part of our process that takes up lots of = time. This covers more than 200+ scientific journals and authors do not always = follow the format of the respective journal as reformatting is handled = by the typesetters. Thanks to Danny for pointing me to FEBRL! I will surely look at this after I get current work out of the way. From glidedon Thu Jan 30 02:26:01 2003 From: glidedon (glidedon) Date: Thu Jan 30 02:26:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Variables in Os Path ? Message-ID: <0003b56e95a4d563_mailit@mail.c-zone.net> Hi list, Newbie here, What am I doing wrong here ? When I try to insert my variable "file_name" into the path to open a file I get the error at bottom. The path is correct if I insert the acutal file name . BTW this on a BeOS system, if you don't recognise the path format :-) TIA Don import os /snip/ file_query = raw_input( ' Do you have a log already started ? : y/n ' ) if file_query in ( 'y', 'Y', 'Yes' ): file_name = raw_input ( ' Enter file name : ') file = open('/boot/home/py/file_name' , 'r') history_list = file.readlines() file.close() for eachline in history_list: print eachline, /snip/ Traceback (most recent call last): File "/boot/home/py/IOFile/File_Query.py", line 11, in ? file = open('/boot/home/py/filename' , 'r') IOError: [Errno -2147459069] No such file or directory: '/boot/home/py/ filename' From francois.granger@free.fr Thu Jan 30 02:32:02 2003 From: francois.granger@free.fr (Francois Granger) Date: Thu Jan 30 02:32:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Variables in Os Path ? In-Reply-To: <0003b56e95a4d563_mailit@mail.c-zone.net> References: <0003b56e95a4d563_mailit@mail.c-zone.net> Message-ID: At 23:24 -0800 29/01/2003, in message [Tutor] Variables in Os Path ?, glidedon wrote: >Hi list, > >Newbie here, What am I doing wrong here ? When I try to insert my variable >"file_name"[...] > file_name = raw_input ( ' Enter file name : ') > file = open('/boot/home/py/file_name' , 'r') file = open('/boot/home/py/' + file_name , 'r') # concatenate a string literal and a variable -- Recently using MacOSX....... From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Thu Jan 30 02:40:02 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Thu Jan 30 02:40:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Variables in Os Path ? In-Reply-To: <0003b56e95a4d563_mailit@mail.c-zone.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, glidedon wrote: > Hi list, > > Newbie here, What am I doing wrong here ? When I try to insert my variable > "file_name" into the path to open a file I get the error at bottom. The path > is correct if I insert the acutal file name . BTW this on a BeOS system, if > you don't recognise the path format :-) Hi Glidedon, Let's take a look: > file_name = raw_input ( ' Enter file name : ') > file = open('/boot/home/py/file_name' , 'r') ^^^^^^^^^ Python has no way of knowing if you literally meant to open a file named 'file_name'. We as humans know that we want to "fill in" that place with the value named by that 'file_name' variable, but Python can't read minds yet. *grin* We have to be more explicit and spell it out to our program. We can fix your problem by joining the literal part of the string, that '/boot/home/py/' part, with the value of file_name. If we look at: http://www.python.org/doc/tut/node5.html#SECTION005120000000000000000 we can browse through till we see something about "concatenation": with concatenation, we should be able to fix the code. By the way, there's a specialized function for attaching a path string to a file, by using the 'os.path.join()' function: http://www.python.org/doc/lib/module-os.path.html#l2h-1288 which would probably be a desirable way to form the full file name, since it handles platform-dependent issues for us. Good luck! From alan.gauld@bt.com Thu Jan 30 06:47:02 2003 From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com) Date: Thu Jan 30 06:47:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Python and Tcl/Tk Message-ID: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E09702394@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> > I don't know... VB 1 was released in 1991, and VB 6 in 1998. > Almost one new version per year. I guess there is some kind > of VB.NET now, Yes and in between we got lkots of VBA and VBScript releases. But VB.NET is a major release with completely unified class libraries, full inheritance/polymorphism in its OOP capability etc. I hesitate to say so but VB.NET is not a bad language for just getting things done... > has no holy cows. It all started with BASIC but I doubt that > he's sentimental. I dunno, its the one project Bill takes a very personal interest in, its what he iuses for his own programming - and he still does quite a bit by all accounts! > VB 6 1998 1 yr > VB 7/.NET 2002 4 yrs since previous version... But all the ASP stuff and uunified VBA was in that period too. > I don't know, but I suspect VB and CSharp will aquire more and > more of each other. Thats true, and of course in .NET they both compile down to the same bytecodes. You can even write one module in VB and another in C# and link them together seamlessly. But I don't see C# ever appearing as a macxro language in Office 2005 or whatever, VB is the end user programming environment, C# is the developers tool. I do expect to see Managed C++ gradually disappearing off the Microsoft radar except as a niche server side tool. > wrong. With it's Java roots, it's rather object-oriented, and > that might be to difficult to grasp for many? Exactly, too much for the end users, and not 'natural English' enough for corporate America. > But when Office etc is fully Dotnet enabled, VBA will be replaced > by Dotnet, and you can write macros and whatever in any Dotnet > capable language. Absolutely but as you said earlier, the normal way for end users is to record macros then enhance them, and I suspect the macro recorder will still be spitting out VBA.NET rather than C# for a long time to come. Alan g. From charlie@begeistert.org Thu Jan 30 11:39:02 2003 From: charlie@begeistert.org (Charlie Clark) Date: Thu Jan 30 11:39:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Checking for valid e-mails Message-ID: <20030130173840.4137.9@.1043915775.fake> Dear list, I have a bundle of e-mail addresses to check for validity and have come across a Python class which does this but not well enuff. I have found some perl code which is better but I'm having trouble translating some of the perl expressions. The Python stuff is at http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66439/index_txt It is a module with a single class which comes with some built in patterns and the ability to make custom patterns. The built in e-mail test doesn't catch things like spaces or @@ and other things. The perl stuff is at http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Rx/Recipe/68432/index_txt This seems to catch pretty much everything but it's perl and I'm not sure what !~ and =~ do I've started work on making custom definitions based on the perl source like this sv1 = StringValidator("joe@testmail.com") sv1.definePattern("test1", "^[0-9a-zA-Z\.\-\_]+\@[0-9a-zA-Z\.\-]+$") sv1.definePattern("test2", "^[^0-9a-zA-Z]|[^0-9a-zA-Z]$") if not sv1.isValidForPattern("test1"): print sv1.validateString, " has invalid characters in the name" elif not sv1.isValidForPattern("test1"): print sv1.validateString, " doesn't start or end with alpha or num" else: print sv1.validateString, "is valid" Here test1 works as it should. I think !~ translates to matches. test2 doesn't work here as it rejects pretty much all addresses. I'd expect it to work differently because it uses =~ but haven't quite worked out how. I'll carry on experimenting! Thanx for any pointers. Charlie From BranimirP@cpas.com Thu Jan 30 13:17:37 2003 From: BranimirP@cpas.com (Branimir Petrovic) Date: Thu Jan 30 13:17:37 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Checking for valid e-mails Message-ID: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D41A641B@RIKER> http://www.interclasse.com/scripts/EMailValidatorCLS.php > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlie Clark [mailto:charlie@begeistert.org] > Sent: January 30, 2003 11:39 AM > To: tutor@python.org > Subject: [Tutor] Checking for valid e-mails > > > Dear list, > > I have a bundle of e-mail addresses to check for validity and > have come > across a Python class which does this but not well enuff. I > have found some > perl code which is better but I'm having trouble translating > some of the > perl expressions. You have to keep on mind that: - E-mail validation is NOT a trivial matter (see RFC2822 for full set of rules to see what you are up against), Proper validation would respect all pattern rules imposed by governing RFC, and would also check and validate the domain part (against the list of valid and registered domains). - Even if valid pattern wise - and if target domain exists, and if mail host for the domain is 'there' and responds, there is absolutely no guarantee that that particular user/mailbox exists as well, and that's what effectively kills the purpose of doing it too seriously. Because it is so hard to do it properly, and ultimately futile on the account of the above point, solutions you can find 'out there' are in the range of either completely broken to 'almost working'... If you are in mood for a chuckle, see the 'pure' regexp solution (compliant with now obsolete RFC822): http://www.foad.org/~abigail/Perl/url3.regex If 'almost there' (good enough) is what would please you, you can have a look at this JScript: http://www.interclasse.com/scripts/EMailValidatorCLS.php that I've done some time ago, before 'seeing the light' (discovering Python). The same thing can be done in Python better and closer to the specs, but I do not think that effort in this direction is worthwhile after all. Branimir From micforster@yahoo.com Thu Jan 30 17:40:03 2003 From: micforster@yahoo.com (Mic Forster) Date: Thu Jan 30 17:40:03 2003 Subject: [Tutor] cellular automaton Message-ID: <20030130223936.24010.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> Does anyone have ready access to a cellular automaton script in Python? I have a script in Basic but not Python. Thanks for any help..... __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From BranimirP@cpas.com Thu Jan 30 17:43:00 2003 From: BranimirP@cpas.com (Branimir Petrovic) Date: Thu Jan 30 17:43:00 2003 Subject: FW: [Tutor] Checking for valid e-mails Message-ID: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D41A6421@RIKER> > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlie Clark [mailto:charlie@begeistert.org] > Sent: January 30, 2003 11:39 AM > To: tutor@python.org > Subject: [Tutor] Checking for valid e-mails > > > Dear list, > > I have a bundle of e-mail addresses to check for validity and > have come > across a Python class which does this but not well enuff. I > have found some > perl code which is better but I'm having trouble translating > some of the > perl expressions. You have to keep on mind that: - E-mail validation is NOT a trivial matter (see RFC2822 for full set of rules to see what you are up against), Proper validation would respect all pattern rules imposed by governing RFC, and would also check and validate the domain part (against the list of valid and registered domains). - Even if valid pattern wise - and if target domain exists, and if mail host for the domain is 'there' and responds, there is absolutely no guarantee that that particular user/mailbox exists as well, and that's what effectively kills the purpose of doing it too seriously. Because it is so hard to do it properly, and ultimately futile on the account of the above point, solutions you can find 'out there' are in the range of either completely broken to 'almost working'... If you are in mood for a chuckle, see the 'pure' regexp solution (compliant with now obsolete RFC822): http://www.foad.org/~abigail/Perl/url3.regex If 'almost there' (good enough) is what would please you, you can have a look at this JScript: http://www.interclasse.com/scripts/EMailValidatorCLS.php that I've done some time ago, before 'seeing the light' (discovering Python). The same thing can be done in Python better and closer to the specs, but I do not think that effort in this direction is worthwhile after all. Branimir From glingl@aon.at Thu Jan 30 18:23:01 2003 From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Thu Jan 30 18:23:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] cellular automaton References: <20030130223936.24010.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E39B3CC.9000508@aon.at> Mic Forster schrieb: >Does anyone have ready access to a cellular automaton >script in Python? I have a script in Basic but not >Python. Thanks for any help..... > > Are you interested in a small "Lifegame"-script? Or are you searching for something more general or more elaborated? Gregor >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > >_______________________________________________ >Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > > > > From Sean Abrahams Thu Jan 30 19:09:47 2003 From: Sean Abrahams (Sean Abrahams) Date: Thu Jan 30 19:09:47 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Stopping program execution Message-ID: <31178548468.20030130160745@sfsu.edu> I have a web script that checks to see if the user has a session cookie. If not, I want to display a page saying 'no session found, please login. yadda yadda yadda', and not execute the rest of the script. Thing is, I check for the session cookie through a separate module. import session id = session.checkSession() # for example If there is a session, the id is returned, otherwise the error message is printed. Right now, I have the error message printing fine, but it continues to execute the rest of the script, which is not the behavior I'm looking for. How do I halt the script when it detects no session? Or, is there a better way to do this? def sessionCheck(session): try: id = session["id"] return id except KeyError, e: print "content-type: text/html" print print "No session found." # Stop script Thanks, --Sean From magnus@thinkware.se Thu Jan 30 19:43:09 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Thu Jan 30 19:43:09 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Stopping program execution In-Reply-To: <31178548468.20030130160745@sfsu.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030131013115.02c74e00@www.thinkware.se> At 16:07 2003-01-30 -0800, Sean Abrahams wrote: >I have a web script that checks to see if the user has a session >cookie. If not, I want to display a page saying 'no session found, >please login. yadda yadda yadda', and not execute the rest of the >script. Thing is, I check for the session cookie through a separate >module. > >import session >id = session.checkSession() ># for example > >If there is a session, the id is returned, otherwise the error message >is printed. > >Right now, I have the error message printing fine, but it continues to >execute the rest of the script, which is not the behavior I'm looking >for. If session.checkSession() returns without providing a return value, it will be the same as "return None" This means that the calling script could for instance do id = session.checkSession() if id is None: # There is no ongoing session for this client. Abort! raise SystemExit >def sessionCheck(session): > try: > id = session["id"] > > return id > except KeyError, e: > print "content-type: text/html" > print > print "No session found." > > # Stop script You can do: raise SystemExit here instead. In general, I think you should put all your code in functions. Indent your main code four spaces, and make it look like this: def main(): [The code that is now always run, except imports and possibly some globals needed by other functions.] if __name__ == '__main__': main() This style is more pythonic, and it will make it easier to structure the code further. It will also enable you to simply do "return" in main() instead of "raise SystemExit". -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From shalehperry@attbi.com Thu Jan 30 19:54:39 2003 From: shalehperry@attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry) Date: Thu Jan 30 19:54:39 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Checking for valid e-mails In-Reply-To: <20030130173840.4137.9@.1043915775.fake> References: <20030130173840.4137.9@.1043915775.fake> Message-ID: <200301301653.18697.shalehperry@attbi.com> On Thursday 30 January 2003 08:38, Charlie Clark wrote: > > The perl stuff is at > http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Rx/Recipe/68432/index_txt > > This seems to catch pretty much everything but it's perl and I'm not su= re > what !~ and =3D~ do > $foo =3D~ /pattern/ is roughly equivalent to re.search(pattern, foo) !~ means does not match it is analogous to the relationship between =3D=3D= and !=3D. From magnus@thinkware.se Thu Jan 30 21:40:02 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Thu Jan 30 21:40:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: you may regret that comment Magnus!! In-Reply-To: <20030130223705.23615.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030129192646.02bdb268@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030131014117.02c090f0@www.thinkware.se> Hi, it seems your mail didn't reach the mailing list. I don't know if the Word attachment caused rejection, or if the subject line triggered some flame-war filter! ;) Anyway, maybe it would be better if you could put the image on some web location, and just post a URL with your mail. Obviously, this algorithm is written in an unstructured way, completely violating everything Dijkstra and others have said, so it would be easier to code without a lot of thinking in a language that supported GOTO, such as BASIC or C. I don't think it's a big issue though. The problem is that the flow chart is not a description of the problem, it's a suggested solution, and a solution made up with an idea that the tool will look different from the one we use: Python. The same basic algorithm could be described differently (well, much smarter) and then be much easier to find a structured solution for. For instance, loops with j = j + 1 just before j > jM, and i = i + 1 just before i > nsp are simply for loops in disguise. Also, the needlessly crossing path makes it more difficult to see the structured solution. These kinds of problems are fairly common. We'll have to twist it a bit. Personally I'd just look at the flow chart and code. I have some trouble distinguishing between 1 (one) and l (ell) in the picture. Could you clarify that? Roughly, your structure should be #init things for j in range(2, jM+1): x = rnd() if x < ...: abund.append(1) else: cum[l or 1?] = ... for i in range(l+1 or 2?, nsp+1): cum[i] = ... i = 1 or l??? while x >= cum[i]: i += 1 abund[i] += 1 ? Also, nsp could be a function, instead of a variable etc. At 14:37 2003-01-30 -0800, Mic Forster wrote: >--- Magnus Lycka wrote: > > If you tell us what you want to achieve, we'll tell > > *you* what you need to create! ;) > > > > >I wasn't going to burden anyone with this but, well, >Magnus I just couldn't turn down your offer. Attached >is an algorithm I want to convert into Python. Any >advice? > >Cheers, >Mic Forster -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From micforster@yahoo.com Thu Jan 30 21:43:12 2003 From: micforster@yahoo.com (Mic Forster) Date: Thu Jan 30 21:43:12 2003 Subject: [Tutor] cellular automaton In-Reply-To: <3E39B3CC.9000508@aon.at> Message-ID: <20030131024232.57329.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gregor Lingl wrote: > Are you interested in a small "Lifegame"-script? Or > are you > searching for something more general or more > elaborated? > Gregor > Gregor, It's an area that I am really finding interesting. So what ever you may have would be greatly appreciated. Mic __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From micforster@yahoo.com Thu Jan 30 21:50:02 2003 From: micforster@yahoo.com (Mic Forster) Date: Thu Jan 30 21:50:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: you may regret that comment Magnus!! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030131014117.02c090f0@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <20030131024915.21480.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> --- Magnus Lycka wrote: >I have some trouble distinguishing between 1 (one) >and l (ell) in the picture. Could you clarify that? Thanks for your help, Magnus. They are all ones in the algorithm; there are no ells. I thought the algorithm was rather elaborate and could be simplified. Again, thanks for the pointer.... __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From magnus@thinkware.se Thu Jan 30 22:21:01 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Thu Jan 30 22:21:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: you may regret that comment Magnus!! In-Reply-To: <20030131024915.21480.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030131014117.02c090f0@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030131041545.02c8fd60@www.thinkware.se> At 18:49 2003-01-30 -0800, Mic Forster wrote: >--- Magnus Lycka wrote: > >I have some trouble distinguishing between 1 (one) > >and l (ell) in the picture. Could you clarify that? > >Thanks for your help, Magnus. They are all ones in the >algorithm; there are no ells. Ok. Then I imagine it's something like below. >I thought the algorithm >was rather elaborate and could be simplified. I still don't have a clue what it does... :) But the main loop is only 12 lines of code. from random import random as rnd # This only works in newer Python versions... class growList(list): '''A list that does as in Perl: Grows when we assign to new indices. I.e. x[1] = 5 will work if x was previously empty.''' def __setitem__(self, i, val): while i >= len(self): self.append(None) list.__setitem__(self, i, val) def __getitem__(self, i): 'Return 0 for unused slots' if i < len(self): return list.__getitem__(self, i) else: return 0 abund = growList() abund[1] = 1 cumul = growList() jM = 10 theta = 5 def nsp(): '''Number of species must be the same as the size of the abundence list (I guess). Note that first position is unused to match the 1-based algorithm syntax.''' return len(abund) - 1 for j in range(2, jM + 1): x = rnd() if x < (theta / float(theta + j - 1)): abund.append(1) else: cumul[1] = abund[1] / float(j-1) for i in range(2, nsp()+1): cumul[i] = cumul[i-1] + abund[i] / float(j-1) i = 1 while x >= cumul[i]: i += 1 abund[i] += 1 print "Abund", abund[1:] print "Cumulative", cumul[1:] -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From llazarre@yahoo.com Fri Jan 31 00:16:14 2003 From: llazarre@yahoo.com (Levy Lazarre) Date: Fri Jan 31 00:16:14 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Checking a file size before moving it Message-ID: <20030131051457.3280.qmail@web40411.mail.yahoo.com> Hello to all, I am writing a Python script that is intended to move some files from directory A to directory B on a server. Users copy the files to directory A once daily. The Python script is triggered by a scheduler and sweeps the directory for the files every 15 minutes. Obviously, I need to check that a file has been completely written before attempting to move it. On the Unix platform, I use the following scheme to ascertain that a file is no longer being written: stat the file and get its size(size1) sleep for 10 seconds stat the file again and get its size(size2) if size2 == size1 proceed with the move operation This works fine in Unix but I am not sure sleep works OK in Win32 since I had some problems in the past doing something similar with VB6. The timer would sometimes trigger at the same time the files were being copied and incomplete files were moved to the target directory. Can anybody suggest a different way of checking if the copy operation has been completed? Thanks, Levy Lazarre __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From jsc@rock-tnsc.com Fri Jan 31 00:48:01 2003 From: jsc@rock-tnsc.com (Jethro Cramp) Date: Fri Jan 31 00:48:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Renaming files In-Reply-To: <1043380228.22416.4.camel@blackbetty> References: <1043380228.22416.4.camel@blackbetty> Message-ID: <200301242209.23666.jsc@rock-tnsc.com> As an interesting aside. If you the characters after mp3 contained more than one period and you were sure that .mp3. (or even just mp3) appeared only once you could do something like this: >>> filename = "name.mp3.something.else" >>> stem = string.split(filename, "mp3", 1) >>> print stem ['name.', '.something.else'] >>> filename = stem[0]+"mp3" >>> print filename name.mp3 >>> Regards, Jethro From jay@jaydorsey.com Fri Jan 31 00:48:16 2003 From: jay@jaydorsey.com (Jay Dorsey) Date: Fri Jan 31 00:48:16 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Very basic help In-Reply-To: <000101c2c4b4$9f8ab420$b789cecf@VAIO> References: <000101c2c4b4$9f8ab420$b789cecf@VAIO> Message-ID: <3E330D5B.5000803@jaydorsey.com> The first thing I see you need to fix is the references to your imported functions from the overtimemod module. In your 9-20.py file, since you imported overtimemod (instead of "from overtimemod import *" - which you wouldn't want to do now anyways since you call one of your variables the same name as one of the functions from yoru module - "overtime"), you need to prefix all of your function calls with the name of the module (overtimemod.) See below for an example. You may want to check your functions as well - I ran the program after I made the changes below, but the results didn't look correct (I'm no math major though). Hope this helps, jay >#Problem 9-20 >import overtimemod >rate = float(input("Enter your hourly wage\n")) >time = float(input("Enter number of hours straight time worked\n")) >overtime = float(input("Enter number of over time hours worked\n")) >multiplier = float(input("Enter your over time multiplier\n")) > >x = overtimemod.overtime(rate,multiplier) >y = overtimemod.gross(overtime,rate) >z = overtimemod.wage(time,rate) >print "Your straight wage is",z >print "Your overtime is",x >print "Your gross pay is",y > > From mjcluster@earthlink.net Fri Jan 31 00:48:35 2003 From: mjcluster@earthlink.net (Mike Cluster) Date: Fri Jan 31 00:48:35 2003 Subject: [Tutor] can't run script Message-ID: <004b01c2c724$0931bd80$9b29b73f@MichaelCluster> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C2C6E0.F8AA9CE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am new to both programming and python, but I've been able to work in = interactive mode and make some progress. However I am unable to save and "run = script"- every time I try I get an "invalid syntax" error message. None of the = tutorials seem to address this or anticipate it as a problem.????????????? mike ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C2C6E0.F8AA9CE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am new to both programming and = python, but=20 I've been able to work in interactive

mode and make some progress. However = I am unable=20 to save and "run script"-

every time I try I get an = "invalid=20 syntax" error message. None of the tutorials

seem to address this or anticipate = it as a=20 problem.?????????????

mike

------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C2C6E0.F8AA9CE0-- From Alberto.Mantovani@bologna.marelli.it Fri Jan 31 00:48:51 2003 From: Alberto.Mantovani@bologna.marelli.it (Mantovani Alberto) Date: Fri Jan 31 00:48:51 2003 Subject: [Tutor] pythonwin Message-ID: <098A62EB12AED611B60000D0B723F98E0512E9@exbologna.bologna.marelli.it> Hi, working with Pythonwin I've noted that if you launch a script a first time and then you modify and relaunch it, the script that goes in ecxecution is alwais the first one that you launch. To execute the modify script you have to exit and to enter from pythonwin. This could be annoying, so my question is: 1) Is there some method or some script to avoid this? I have found the manner to delete the module if it is imported with but not if it is imported with . 2) Is it possible to run automatically a my python script when I launch the pythonwin? If this was possible I could, at the start, to save all module imported in pythonwin () and when I want to clear the namespace to delete the new module imported best regards Mantovani Alberto Magneti Marelli Powertrain S.p.A. Software Testing Dept. Via del Timavo, 33 - 40134 Bologna (ITALY) Tel.: +39 051 615 7152 Fax.: +39 051 617 7782 Alberto.Mantovani@bologna.marelli.it From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Jan 31 00:59:01 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Fri Jan 31 00:59:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: you may regret that comment Magnus!! [Word attachments == bad] In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030131014117.02c090f0@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Magnus Lycka wrote: > Hi, it seems your mail didn't reach the mailing list. > I don't know if the Word attachment caused rejection, > or if the subject line triggered some flame-war > filter! ;) Hello! Mailman automatically caught it and prompted the admins to take a look. Mic, I had to reject the post because it was way too large. To get around this, you may just want to do a cut-and-paste of the code directly into the email, so that it appears in the body of the post. There's one major problem with sending code as a Microsoft Word attachment: 1. It's Word. *grin* But seriously speaking, this limits your audience to people who are running on a system that has Microsoft Word. It excludes people who are running on systems that don't have Word installed. There's also the matter of the attachment being much too large to send to the list. But the major problem is compatibility: we want to allow people to see your question in as widespread a way as possible, and Word is not a good medium from a compatibility standpoint. Plain text is a better medium, so let's use that instead. Just wanted to give a straight explanation why your post hadn't appeared on Tutor. Sorry about the inconvenience! From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Jan 31 01:04:02 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Fri Jan 31 01:04:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] can't run script In-Reply-To: <004b01c2c724$0931bd80$9b29b73f@MichaelCluster> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Mike Cluster wrote: > I am new to both programming and python, but I've been able to work in > interactive mode and make some progress. However I am unable to save and > "run script"- every time I try I get an "invalid syntax" error message. Hi Mike, When Python says "Invalid syntax", it means that the program doesn't quite know what to make of it. *grin* But don't worry; that's what we're here for. We need to see what you've typed to better understand the problem. Can you cut and paste your program and send it to the Tutor list? You can copy it directly into the email body: we can take a look and see what's going on. Also, there should have been a few lines of error message right above the "Invalid syntax" part --- can you send those lines over as well? > None of the tutorials seem to address this or anticipate it as a > problem.????????????? mike I wrote a tutorial on IDLE that does mention that SyntaxErrors can happen: http://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~dyoo/python/idle_intro/ As you learn more of the language, syntax errors will be easier to figure out. Since you're new to the language, please feel free to show us on the Tutor list; we'll be happy to interpret the errors for you. Good luck! From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Jan 31 01:08:02 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Fri Jan 31 01:08:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] cellular automaton In-Reply-To: <3E39B3CC.9000508@aon.at> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Gregor Lingl wrote: > Mic Forster schrieb: > > >Does anyone have ready access to a cellular automaton script in Python? > >I have a script in Basic but not Python. Thanks for any help..... > > > > > Are you interested in a small "Lifegame"-script? Or are you searching > for something more general or more elaborated? Hi Mic, A while back, I did write a small program that simulated "Rule 100" of one of Steven Wolfram's cellular automata. Here's a link to that message: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2002-September/017256.html I think it's a cute script; it's probably a bit longer than it needs to be, but it should be fairly easy to read. Does this help? Best of wishes to you! From micforster@yahoo.com Fri Jan 31 01:29:02 2003 From: micforster@yahoo.com (Mic Forster) Date: Fri Jan 31 01:29:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] cellular automaton In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030131062808.52899.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> yes that's the sort of thing I'm after. perhaps i'll also grab a copy of Wolfram's book....been meaning to for a while now --- Danny Yoo wrote: > > > On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Gregor Lingl wrote: > > > Mic Forster schrieb: > > > > >Does anyone have ready access to a cellular > automaton script in Python? > > >I have a script in Basic but not Python. Thanks > for any help..... > > > > > > > > Are you interested in a small "Lifegame"-script? > Or are you searching > > for something more general or more elaborated? > > Hi Mic, > > A while back, I did write a small program that > simulated "Rule 100" of one > of Steven Wolfram's cellular automata. Here's a > link to that message: > > > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2002-September/017256.html > > I think it's a cute script; it's probably a bit > longer than it needs to > be, but it should be fairly easy to read. Does this > help? > > > Best of wishes to you! > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Jan 31 03:55:01 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Fri Jan 31 03:55:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] can't run script (fwd) Message-ID: Hi Mike, (side note: when you reply, make sure tutor@python.org is also in the reply; that way, even if I get mauled by a large rat, you'll still have a good chance of getting answers from the rest of the group) Let's look at the code you attached: ### code Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32 Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help print "hello world" print "Here are 10 numbers" for i in range(10): print i print "I'm done" ### And here's the error message you sent me: ### File "C:\Python22\hello128.py", line 1 Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32 ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax ### Ah ha! You'll need to drop the first few lines there from your program. Those lines, """ Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32 Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help """ are part of the "greeting" that Python gives you when it starts up: they are not actual program lines. That's why Python's pointing to the first greeting line: it's saying "these are not program statements." If you clean up your program, it should look like: ### print "hello world" print "Here are 10 numbers" for i in range(10): print i print "I'm done" ### Try that; you should get better results with it. Hope this helps! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:20:37 -0800 From: Mike Cluster To: Danny Yoo Subject: Re: [Tutor] can't run script Danny, Thanks for answering. Here are the files. mike -----Original Message----- From: Danny Yoo To: Mike Cluster Cc: tutor@python.org Date: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [Tutor] can't run script > > >On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Mike Cluster wrote: > >> I am new to both programming and python, but I've been able to work in >> interactive mode and make some progress. However I am unable to save and >> "run script"- every time I try I get an "invalid syntax" error message. > >Hi Mike, > >When Python says "Invalid syntax", it means that the program doesn't quite >know what to make of it. *grin* But don't worry; that's what we're here >for. > > >We need to see what you've typed to better understand the problem. Can >you cut and paste your program and send it to the Tutor list? You can >copy it directly into the email body: we can take a look and see what's >going on. Also, there should have been a few lines of error message right >above the "Invalid syntax" part --- can you send those lines over as well? > > >> None of the tutorials seem to address this or anticipate it as a >> problem.????????????? mike > >I wrote a tutorial on IDLE that does mention that SyntaxErrors can >happen: > > http://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~dyoo/python/idle_intro/ > >As you learn more of the language, syntax errors will be easier to figure >out. Since you're new to the language, please feel free to show us on the >Tutor list; we'll be happy to interpret the errors for you. > > >Good luck! > From charlie@begeistert.org Fri Jan 31 04:08:03 2003 From: charlie@begeistert.org (Charlie Clark) Date: Fri Jan 31 04:08:03 2003 Subject: [Tutor] re: Checking e-mail addresses In-Reply-To: <20030131054835.24881.64741.Mailman@mail.python.org> References: <20030131054835.24881.64741.Mailman@mail.python.org> Message-ID: <20030131100734.689.2@.1044002776.fake> On 2003-01-31 at 06:48:35 [+0100], tutor-request@python.org wrote: > You have to keep on mind that:=20 >=20 > - E-mail validation is NOT a trivial matter=20 I know but they do help. I'm tidying up a list of addresses for a=20 newsletter and there are lots of typos and things in there - over a=20 thousand invalid addresses so anything that helps is good. I used to run=20 the system myself and manually correct addresses or remove them when they=20 bounced but that was a few years ago... =20 > If you are in mood for a chuckle, see the 'pure' regexp solution=20 > (compliant with now obsolete RFC822): >=20 > http://www.foad.org/~abigail/Perl/url3.regex aaagh! I'm allergic to perl wow. It's amazing how "perverted" people's brains can get. That looks like=20 compiled code! =20 > If 'almost there' (good enough) is what would please you, you can have a=20 > look at this JScript: >=20 > http://www.interclasse.com/scripts/EMailValidatorCLS.php Thanx, I've looked at it briefly. I think it would take *me* a long time to=20 transpose it to Python. If we could take this off-list and you could help=20 me I'll make and release the Python version. =20 > that I've done some time ago, before 'seeing the light' (discovering=20 > Python). The same thing can be done in Python better and closer to the=20 > specs, but I do not think that effort in this direction is worthwhile=20 > after all. I think this is a moot point. I like to catch errors as early as possible=20 providing the work required to do this isn't enuff to get you me a PhD=20 (actually I'd need a BSc beforehand ;-). Catching typos can be very useful=20 and I would guess a good solution will catch over 90% of most addresses=20 which works for me. Charlei --=20 Charlie Clark Helmholtzstr. 20 D=FCsseldorf D- 40215 Tel: +49-211-938-5360 From charlie@begeistert.org Fri Jan 31 04:40:14 2003 From: charlie@begeistert.org (Charlie Clark) Date: Fri Jan 31 04:40:14 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Checking telephone numbers: re or strings Message-ID: <20030131103945.821.5@.1044002776.fake> Dear list, I've got a list of telphone numbers for SMS delivery and have a similar problem as with my e-mail list: there's a lot of junk it which I've got to try and tidy up. One of the problems is that the numbers are international access codes, country codes, network codes and number all rolled into one, ie: numbers = ['+491787826226', '1721545662', '001745648324'] I've managed to "normalise" the numbers and remove the "+", "++" and "00" at the beginning and I would like to identify and remove the country access code so it can be stored separately. Given a list of the country codes: access ={'America':'1', 'Germany':'49', 'Ireland':'353'....} what is the best way of checking to see if a country code is there and removing it? I've come up with two different approaches to this and would like to hear comments and possibly alternatives. The first one attempts to build up a country code from the start of the phone number and compare this with the list of values in the codes dictionary. for number in numbers: access = codes.values() code = "" for i in range(4): if number[:i] in access: number = number[i:] code = number[:i] break store(number, code) # store is a call to a database the other approach checks for a match of an access code at the beginning of a number import re for number in numbers: for code in codes: if re.search("^" + code, number): number = re.sub("^" + code, "", number) break else: code = "" store(number, code) Apart from the fact that I'm not very sure if the regular expression is correct this is definitely more processor intensive as possibly all of the codes have to be tried on each number before exiting. I also wasn't sure as to whether to use "break" or not: this takes me out of the current loop, doesn't it? Charlie From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Jan 31 05:08:28 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Fri Jan 31 05:08:28 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Checking telephone numbers: re or strings In-Reply-To: <20030131103945.821.5@.1044002776.fake> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Charlie Clark wrote: > I've got a list of telphone numbers for SMS delivery and have a similar > problem as with my e-mail list: there's a lot of junk it which I've got > to try and tidy up. One of the problems is that the numbers are > international access codes, country codes, network codes and number all > rolled into one, ie: > > numbers = ['+491787826226', '1721545662', '001745648324'] > > I've managed to "normalise" the numbers and remove the "+", "++" and > "00" at the beginning and I would like to identify and remove the > country access code so it can be stored separately. > > Given a list of the country codes: > access ={'America':'1', 'Germany':'49', 'Ireland':'353'....} > what is the best way of checking to see if a country code is there and > removing it? Hi Charlie, Out of curiosity, is it ever possible for two country codes to "conflict"? That is, is it ever possible that something like this might happen? access = {'America':'1', ..., 'Pythonia' : '123'} Just wondering. > I've come up with two different approaches to this and would like to > hear comments and possibly alternatives. > > The first one attempts to build up a country code from the start of the > phone number and compare this with the list of values in the codes > dictionary. > > for number in numbers: > access = codes.values() > code = "" > for i in range(4): > if number[:i] in access: > number = number[i:] > code = number[:i] > break > store(number, code) # store is a call to a database This works. We can speed things up slightly. We don't actually need to do: access = codes.values() because, in recent versions of Python, it's perfectly ok to check for things inside dictionaries by using 'in': ### >>> digits = {'zero': 0, 'one':1, 'two':2, 'three' : 3, 'four':4, ... 'five': 5, 'six':6, 'seven':7, 'eight':8, 'nine':9} >>> 'zero' in digits 1 >>> 'twenty' in digits 0 ### and the lookup check for key membership is much faster than scanning for membership in a list. In your code, 'access' is a dictionary that maps countries to their respective country codes. If you make a reversed map --- that is, country codes to countries --- you may find parts of your program easier to do. > the other approach checks for a match of an access code at the beginning of > a number > > import re > > for number in numbers: > for code in codes: > if re.search("^" + code, number): > number = re.sub("^" + code, "", number) > break > else: > code = "" > store(number, code) > > > Apart from the fact that I'm not very sure if the regular expression is > correct this is definitely more processor intensive as possibly all of > the codes have to be tried on each number before exiting. Yes, the loop might be a bit expensive. However, we can improve the situation: what about constructing a large regular expression out of all those country codes? ### >>> prefixes = ['1', '49', '353'] >>> import re >>> pattern = re.compile('|'.join(prefixes)) >>> >>> numbers = ['491787826226', '1721545662', '001745648324'] >>> for n in numbers: ... print n, pattern.match(n).group(0) ... 491787826226 49 1721545662 1 001745648324 Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 2, in ? AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'group' ### Ok, the last one didn't work out because the regular expression didn't match against '001745648324', but that's a situation we can properly detect, if we write a little more code. I think this approach --- compiling a regular expression at runtime --- should still be pretty darn fast, since we avoid doing loops over individual regular expressions. There are other techniques we can use to make this go even faster, but let's see how far the standard regular expressions can take us. From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Jan 31 05:18:39 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Fri Jan 31 05:18:39 2003 Subject: [Tutor] re: Checking e-mail addresses [Mailman and email validation] In-Reply-To: <20030131100734.689.2@.1044002776.fake> Message-ID: [about writing a email address validator] > If we could take this off-list and you could help me I'll make and > release the Python version. Hi Charlie, I know that there's got to be something in Mailman, the Mailing List Manager, http://www.list.org/ that must do some initial validation of email addresses: Mailman has a utility that allows for a batch of users to become subscribed (it's 'bin/addmembers'), and in the process of mass subscription, Mailman culls out a list of addresses that are definitely "wrong". If you have the Mailman source code handly, you can take a look at 'Mailman/Utils.py:ValidateEmail'. The responsible code is actually quite short, but it does weird stuff. (os.path.join()? What is THAT doing in there? *grin*) Here's what it looks like on a system of mine: ### _badchars = re.compile('[][()<>|;^,]') def ValidateEmail(str): """Verify that the an email address isn't grossly invalid.""" # Pretty minimal, cheesy check. We could do better... if not str: raise Errors.MMBadEmailError if _badchars.search(str) or str[0] == '-': raise Errors.MMHostileAddress if string.find(str, '/') <> -1 and \ os.path.isdir(os.path.split(str)[0]): # then raise Errors.MMHostileAddress user, domain_parts = ParseEmail(str) # this means local, unqualified addresses, are no allowed if not domain_parts: raise Errors.MMBadEmailError if len(domain_parts) < 2: raise Errors.MMBadEmailError ### But they know that it's a hack: they even say that they should do better! So if you write an improved version of an email validator, the Mailman folks should be very interested in it. *grin* Good luck! From fredm@smartypantsco.com Fri Jan 31 05:19:02 2003 From: fredm@smartypantsco.com (Alfred Milgrom) Date: Fri Jan 31 05:19:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Checking a file size before moving it In-Reply-To: <20030131051457.3280.qmail@web40411.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030131210503.00a92830@192.168.1.1> OK - I note that no-one has ventured any suggestions, so here is a start from someone who knows nothing about file systems! I assume that there is no simple way to tell if a file is being accessed. One suggestion would be to look at the timestamp. Since you sweep every 15 minutes, ignore ay files that have been created since the last sweep, but transfer only those files that were created more than 15 minutes earlier. Another suggestion might be to copy the files rather than moving them, and at the end of the operation check whether the size of the files is the same. If yes, you can remove the file from Directory A. I'm sure there's a better way out there than waiting 10 seconds! HTH, Fred Milgrom At 09:14 PM 30/01/03 -0800, you wrote: >Hello to all, > >I am writing a Python script that is intended to move >some files from directory A to directory B on a >server. Users copy the files to directory A once >daily. The Python script is triggered by a scheduler >and sweeps the directory for the files every 15 >minutes. Obviously, I need to check that a file has >been completely written before attempting to move it. >On the Unix platform, I use the following scheme to >ascertain that a file is no longer being written: > >stat the file and get its size(size1) >sleep for 10 seconds >stat the file again and get its size(size2) >if size2 == size1 proceed with the move operation > >This works fine in Unix but I am not sure sleep works >OK in Win32 since I had some problems in the past >doing something similar with VB6. The timer would >sometimes trigger at the same time the files were >being >copied and incomplete files were moved to the target >directory. > >Can anybody suggest a different way of checking if the >copy operation has been completed? > >Thanks, >Levy Lazarre From charlie@begeistert.org Fri Jan 31 05:21:02 2003 From: charlie@begeistert.org (Charlie Clark) Date: Fri Jan 31 05:21:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Checking telephone numbers: re or strings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030131111914.1084.6@.1044002776.fake> > Hi Charlie, >=20 > Out of curiosity, is it ever possible for two country codes to=20 > "conflict"? That is, is it ever possible that something like this might=20 > happen? >=20 > access =3D {'America':'1', ..., 'Pythonia' : '123'} >=20 > Just wondering. apparently not because this might cause an error when dialling the number +1-234-712-4667 may be a valid number in North America for all I know but=20 it would rooted to Pythonia. So we don't have to worry about that problem. =20 > This works. We can speed things up slightly. We don't actually need to=20 > do: >=20 > access =3D codes.values() >=20 > because, in recent versions of Python, it's perfectly ok to check for=20 > things inside dictionaries by using 'in': mm, I've heard of this. Which version did it come in? I've kind of got used=20 to the explicit calls to keys(), values() and items() =20 > ### > >>> digits =3D {'zero': 0, 'one':1, 'two':2, 'three' : 3, 'four':4, > ... 'five': 5, 'six':6, 'seven':7, 'eight':8, 'nine':9} > >>> 'zero' in digits > 1 > >>> 'twenty' in digits > 0 > ### >=20 > and the lookup check for key membership is much faster than scanning for=20 > membership in a list.=20 agreed > In your code, 'access' is a dictionary that maps countries to their=20 > respective country codes. If you make a reversed map --- that is,=20 > country codes to countries --- you may find parts of your program easier=20 > to do. Yes, I know. It's constructed from the database where the numbers are=20 stored as numbers but as I have convert them into a string for the match I=20 can use them as keys. =20 > Yes, the loop might be a bit expensive. However, we can improve the=20 > situation: what about constructing a large regular expression out of all=20 > those country codes? Good idea! What about it? ;-) Lack of experience. =20 > ### > >>> prefixes =3D ['1', '49', '353'] > >>> import re > >>> pattern =3D re.compile('|'.join(prefixes)) > >>> > >>> numbers =3D ['491787826226', '1721545662', '001745648324'] for n in=20 > >>> numbers: > ... print n, pattern.match(n).group(0) > ... > 491787826226 49 > 1721545662 1 > 001745648324 > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 2, in ? > AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'group' ### =20 > Ok, the last one didn't work out because the regular expression didn't=20 > match against '001745648324', but that's a situation we can properly=20 > detect, if we write a little more code. Yes, that was the raw list. I've already written something to detect the=20 "00" at the beginning as this is just an access code for international=20 dialling outside of North America. However, there will be other cases of=20 none matches which means I need to catch those errors and give them an=20 empty code. =20 > I think this approach --- compiling a regular expression at runtime ---=20 > should still be pretty darn fast, since we avoid doing loops over=20 > individual regular expressions. Sounds good to me. I'll give a try. =20 > There are other techniques we can use to make this go even faster, but=20 > let's see how far the standard regular expressions can take us. No need to over-optimise! There are only a couple of thousand numbers. If=20 my expensive loop method only takes a minute. Thanx for helping me understand re's a bit better! Charlie --=20 Charlie Clark Helmholtzstr. 20 D=FCsseldorf D- 40215 Tel: +49-211-938-5360 From charlie@begeistert.org Fri Jan 31 05:36:03 2003 From: charlie@begeistert.org (Charlie Clark) Date: Fri Jan 31 05:36:03 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Checking telephone numbers: re or strings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030131113509.1191.7@.1044002776.fake> On 2003-01-31 at 11:05:14 [+0100], Danny Yoo wrote: > Ok, the last one didn't work out because the regular expression didn't=20 > match against '001745648324', but that's a situation we can properly=20 > detect, if we write a little more code. >=20 >=20 > I think this approach --- compiling a regular expression at runtime ---=20 > should still be pretty darn fast, since we avoid doing loops over=20 > individual regular expressions. >=20 > There are other techniques we can use to make this go even faster, but=20 > let's see how far the standard regular expressions can take us. So I've done the tests: string based solution =3D 3.94 secs regex based solution =3D 2.84 secs Thanx Danny! Charlie --=20 Charlie Clark Helmholtzstr. 20 D=FCsseldorf D- 40215 Tel: +49-211-938-5360 From charlie@begeistert.org Fri Jan 31 05:45:02 2003 From: charlie@begeistert.org (Charlie Clark) Date: Fri Jan 31 05:45:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] re: Checking e-mail addresses [Mailman and email validation] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030131114447.1276.8@.1044002776.fake> On 2003-01-31 at 11:17:46 [+0100], Danny Yoo wrote: > Here's what it looks like on a system of mine: > > ### > _badchars = re.compile('[][()<>|;^,]') cound you explain this? the characters [, ], (, ), <, > are not allowed? neither are ";" and ","? > def ValidateEmail(str): > """Verify that the an email address isn't grossly invalid.""" # > Pretty minimal, cheesy check. We could do better... if not str: > raise Errors.MMBadEmailError > if _badchars.search(str) or str[0] == '-': > raise Errors.MMHostileAddress > if string.find(str, '/') <> -1 and \ > os.path.isdir(os.path.split(str)[0]): > # then > raise Errors.MMHostileAddress > user, domain_parts = ParseEmail(str) > # this means local, unqualified addresses, are no allowed if not > domain_parts: > raise Errors.MMBadEmailError > if len(domain_parts) < 2: > raise Errors.MMBadEmailError > ### > But they know that it's a hack: they even say that they should do better! > So if you write an improved version of an email validator, the Mailman > folks should be very interested in it. *grin* It's an awful hack - even I can understand it! But thanx for the tip. I'm already trying to contact them re. InterfaceTemplate but the dev list is moderated. I'll give it a try! As Branimir has already pointed out it's probably impossible to have a completely reliable solution but making a list with probable errors can make life a lot easier. Charlie From blackmariah@shmups.com Fri Jan 31 05:54:01 2003 From: blackmariah@shmups.com (Michael Miller) Date: Fri Jan 31 05:54:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Getting hex value of pixels In-Reply-To: <200301242209.23666.jsc@rock-tnsc.com> References: <1043380228.22416.4.camel@blackbetty> <200301242209.23666.jsc@rock-tnsc.com> Message-ID: <200301310451.14329.blackmariah@shmups.com> I'm using PIL to build an ASCII art generator. Silly, but I'm learning here. ;) It will take an input image, get the value of each pixel, then output an HTML file with random characters that have the color of each pixel. Sorry if that doesn't make much sense. I need to get the hexadecimal value of each pixel's color, but I'm having no luck doing so. hex() returns normal hexadecimal numbers, not those used for HTML colors (of course). The getpixel() method of PIL returns the RGB values. How can I go about getting the hex value of each pixel's color? Thanks in advance. Michael From alan.gauld@bt.com Fri Jan 31 06:00:10 2003 From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com) Date: Fri Jan 31 06:00:10 2003 Subject: [Tutor] can't run script Message-ID: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E097023A0@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2C917.94F04400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" You don't say how you are saving your script, but it sounds like you are trying to save an interactive session in IDLE as a script? You can't do that because it will include all the >>> prompts etc. You need to create the script in a new window(File->New) and save from there. This is covered (briefly) in my tutorial and also in Danny's intro to IDLE. Same principle applies if you use Pythonwin. Alan g. Author of the Learn to Program website http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ PS A nice enhancement to both IDEs would be a "Save As Script" feature for the shell windows... -----Original Message----- From: tutor-admin@python.org [mailto:tutor-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of Mike Cluster Sent: 28 January 2003 23:22 To: tutor@python.org Subject: [Tutor] can't run script I am new to both programming and python, but I've been able to work in interactive mode and make some progress. However I am unable to save and "run script"- every time I try I get an "invalid syntax" error message. None of the tutorials seem to address this or anticipate it as a problem.????????????? mike ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2C917.94F04400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

You don't say how you are saving your script, but it sounds like you are trying

to save an interactive session in IDLE as a script? You can't do that because

it will include all the >>> prompts etc.

You need to create the script in a new window(File->New) and save from there.

This is covered (briefly) in my tutorial and also in Danny's intro to IDLE.

Same principle applies if you use Pythonwin.

Alan g.
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/

A nice enhancement to both IDEs would be a "Save As Script" feature for the shell windows...

-----Original Message-----
From: tutor-admin@python.org [mailto:tutor-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of Mike Cluster
Sent: 28 January 2003 23:22
To: tutor@python.org
Subject: [Tutor] can't run script

I am new to both programming and python, but I've been able to work in interactive

mode and make some progress. However I am unable to save and "run script"-

every time I try I get an "invalid syntax" error message. None of the tutorials

seem to address this or anticipate it as a problem.?????????????

mike

------_=_NextPart_001_01C2C917.94F04400-- From alan.gauld@bt.com Fri Jan 31 06:02:02 2003 From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com) Date: Fri Jan 31 06:02:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Checking a file size before moving it Message-ID: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E097023A1@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> > On the Unix platform, I use the following scheme to > ascertain that a file is no longer being written: > > stat the file and get its size(size1) > sleep for 10 seconds > stat the file again and get its size(size2) > if size2 == size1 proceed with the move operation I'm pretty sure theres a better way that doesn't involve sleep at all, but I can't think what it is right now! > This works fine in Unix but I am not sure sleep works > OK in Win32 since I had some problems in the past > doing something similar with VB6. sleep() works OK, it doesn't use the Win32 timer event mechanism that VB uses. > Can anybody suggest a different way of checking if the > copy operation has been completed? I'm thinking about it :-) Alan g From =?ISO-8859-1?B?YW50b25tdWhpbiDt4CByYW1ibGVyLnJ1?= Fri Jan 31 06:08:11 2003 From: =?ISO-8859-1?B?YW50b25tdWhpbiDt4CByYW1ibGVyLnJ1?= (=?ISO-8859-1?B?YW50b25tdWhpbiDt4CByYW1ibGVyLnJ1?=) Date: Fri Jan 31 06:08:11 2003 Subject: [Tutor] can't run script In-Reply-To: <004b01c2c724$0931bd80$9b29b73f@MichaelCluster> References: <004b01c2c724$0931bd80$9b29b73f@MichaelCluster> Message-ID: <374569370.20030131140733@rambler.ru> Hello Mike, Wednesday, January 29, 2003, 2:21:46 AM, you wrote: MC> I am new to both programming and python, but I've been able to work in interactive MC> mode and make some progress. However I am unable to save and "run script"- MC> every time I try I get an "invalid syntax" error message. None of the tutorials MC> seem to address this or anticipate it as a problem.????????????? MC> mike Take a look at saved file: you should find a lot of >>> there. They are prompts of interpreter and lead to syntax error of Python. Several examples: In interpreter: >>> a = 0 0 >>> print a + 1 1 In .py a = 0 print a + 1 HTH -- Best regards, antonmuhin mailto:antonmuhin@rambler.ru From magnus@thinkware.se Fri Jan 31 07:40:02 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Fri Jan 31 07:40:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Getting hex value of pixels In-Reply-To: <200301310451.14329.blackmariah@shmups.com> References: <200301242209.23666.jsc@rock-tnsc.com> <1043380228.22416.4.camel@blackbetty> <200301242209.23666.jsc@rock-tnsc.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030131132854.02c79d78@www.thinkware.se> At 04:51 2003-01-31 -0500, Michael Miller wrote: >... output an >HTML file with random characters that have the color of each pixel. Sorry if >that doesn't make much sense. I need to get the hexadecimal value of each >pixel's color, but I'm having no luck doing so. hex() returns normal >hexadecimal numbers, not those used for HTML colors (of course). The >getpixel() method of PIL returns the RGB values. How can I go about getting >the hex value of each pixel's color? Hex values aren't different than decimal values, they are just presented differently... I guess you want something like this: >>> "#%02X%02X%02X" % (55, 200, 255) '#37C8FF' I'm assuming you have a tuple with (red, green, blue)... -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From blackmariah@shmups.com Fri Jan 31 07:57:01 2003 From: blackmariah@shmups.com (Michael Miller) Date: Fri Jan 31 07:57:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Getting hex value of pixels In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030131132854.02c79d78@www.thinkware.se> References: <200301242209.23666.jsc@rock-tnsc.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030131132854.02c79d78@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <200301310653.34012.blackmariah@shmups.com> > Hex values aren't different than decimal values, they are just > presented differently... I guess you want something like this: > >>> "#%02X%02X%02X" % (55, 200, 255) > > '#37C8FF' > Okay, now would you mind explaining how that works? LOL Messing with it I see that just using "%02X" % (55) produces the expected output of 37. What is "%02X" doing, anyway? Thanks a lot for helping out. From magnus@thinkware.se Fri Jan 31 08:12:03 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Fri Jan 31 08:12:03 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Getting hex value of pixels In-Reply-To: <200301310653.34012.blackmariah@shmups.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030131132854.02c79d78@www.thinkware.se> <200301242209.23666.jsc@rock-tnsc.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030131132854.02c79d78@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030131140049.02d593a8@www.thinkware.se> At 06:53 2003-01-31 -0500, Michael Miller wrote: >Okay, now would you mind explaining how that works? LOL Messing with it I see >that just using "%02X" % (55) produces the expected output of 37. What is >"%02X" doing, anyway? Thanks a lot for helping out. I guess I need to put this in my sig... Read the Library reference chapter 2 every so often... http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/builtin.html In this case, specifically http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesseq-strings.html I'm sure someone else can point to tutorials that explain this with more examples. In short: % => Now comes a formatting instruction 0 => Fill up with zeroes 2 => Use two positions X => show as heXadecimal with capital A-F. -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From magnus@thinkware.se Fri Jan 31 08:18:01 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Fri Jan 31 08:18:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] pythonwin In-Reply-To: <098A62EB12AED611B60000D0B723F98E0512E9@exbologna.bologna.m arelli.it> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030131141107.02d56048@www.thinkware.se> At 15:45 2003-01-29 +0100, Mantovani Alberto wrote: >Hi, >working with Pythonwin I've noted that if you launch a script a first time >and then you modify and relaunch it, the script that goes in ecxecution is >alwais the first one that you launch. To execute the modify script you have >to exit and to enter from pythonwin. This could be annoying, so my >question is: > >1) Is there some method or some script to avoid this? import X ... reload(X) >I have found the manner to delete the module if it is imported with >but not if it is imported with . Yet another reason to avoid the from...syntax. You may find that nothing beats the command line in the end. COMMAND.COM stinks, but with a better OS, you might find the command line very useful. CMD.EXE (in NT and derivates) is already much better, just enable tab completion. It's not as good as unix shells of cource. But they are available for Windows too... You can even survive with COMMAND.COM if you have to, as long as you run DOSKEY /I before you start working... -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From blackmariah@shmups.com Fri Jan 31 08:25:03 2003 From: blackmariah@shmups.com (Michael Miller) Date: Fri Jan 31 08:25:03 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Getting hex value of pixels In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030131140049.02d593a8@www.thinkware.se> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030131132854.02c79d78@www.thinkware.se> <5.1.0.14.0.20030131140049.02d593a8@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <200301310720.35365.blackmariah@shmups.com> On Friday 31 January 2003 08:09 am, Magnus Lycka wrote: > I guess I need to put this in my sig... > > Read the Library reference chapter 2 every so often... > http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/builtin.html > > In this case, specifically > http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesseq-strings.html > > I'm sure someone else can point to tutorials that explain this > with more examples. > > In short: > % => Now comes a formatting instruction > 0 => Fill up with zeroes > 2 => Use two positions > X => show as heXadecimal with capital A-F. Even if you did put it in your sig, it wouldn't have helped me much. If it wasn't for your short explanation there I wouldn't understand anything on that page. But since you included it, everything makes sense. Thanks a lot for all the help again. Michael Miller From magnus@thinkware.se Fri Jan 31 08:29:01 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Fri Jan 31 08:29:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Checking a file size before moving it In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030131210503.00a92830@192.168.1.1> References: <20030131051457.3280.qmail@web40411.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030131134013.02ce9938@www.thinkware.se> At 21:15 2003-01-31 +1000, Alfred Milgrom wrote: >Another suggestion might be to copy the files rather than moving them, and >at the end of the operation check whether the size of the files is the >same. If yes, you can remove the file from Directory A. I think both this and the sleep version might cause lost data if the computer system is slow. Why don't you just try to open the file? At least in Win2000 you get an IOError if you try to open a file that it being written. I assume that something like opening in append more would yield an error in any OS, if open in read while writing is permitted. something like: for fn in glob.glob('*'): try: f = file(fn) f.close() however_you_do_the_copying except IOError: print fn, 'is busy?' See also http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/os-fd-ops.html -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From alan.gauld@bt.com Fri Jan 31 08:58:09 2003 From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com) Date: Fri Jan 31 08:58:09 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Checking a file size before moving it Message-ID: <7497DCA1C240C042B28F6657ADFD8E0974DAA9@i2km11-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net> > I assume that there is no simple way to tell if a file is > being accessed. OK, I'm at work now with access to my Unix books... The fcntl function allows you to get a lock. If the file is already locked you get that lock back. Within the lock structure you can read the user and process IDs. If they aint your own then the file is already locked by another user 0- and you know which one! Itrs a wee bit of processing but you can wrap it as a function easily enough and it will be much faster than 10 seconds! The good news is that there is an fcntl module in Python (which uses the FCNTL module to define the needed constants). F_GETLK is one of these and the function apparently returns a flock structure...which I can't see the definition of... The C definition is a struct: struct { short l_type; short l_whence; short l_start; short l_len; short l_sysid; short l_pid; } >From previous practice I'd guess in Python its a tuple with the same set of values in the same order... The bad news is that fcntl only seems to exist in Unix. For Windows you probably can find something similar in Mark Hammonds win32 stuff... But you need to hunt the Win32 docs for that I'm afraid. Alan g. Author of the Learn to Program website http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ From python@jaydorsey.com Fri Jan 31 12:30:18 2003 From: python@jaydorsey.com (Jay Dorsey) Date: Fri Jan 31 12:30:18 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Running a process/script as another user Message-ID: <3E3AB232.2040504@jaydorsey.com> I have a python script that I"m executing via cgi. the process that exceutes the script doesn't have access to do what I need it to do (automate some CVS tasks). Is there anyway to switch to a differnet non-root user so I can execute these commands as the user with the proper permissions (using os.system())? This is on a *nix box. Any help or pointers would be appreciated. jay From dman@dman.ddts.net Fri Jan 31 15:02:22 2003 From: dman@dman.ddts.net (Derrick 'dman' Hudson) Date: Fri Jan 31 15:02:22 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: Running a process/script as another user In-Reply-To: <3E3AB232.2040504@jaydorsey.com> References: <3E3AB232.2040504@jaydorsey.com> Message-ID: <20030131200007.GA26497@dman.ddts.net> --2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jan 31, 2003 at 12:28:18PM -0500, Jay Dorsey wrote: | I have a python script that I"m executing via cgi. the process that=20 | exceutes the script doesn't have access to do what I need it to do=20 | (automate some CVS tasks). I recommend using suexec. It will run the cgi script as you, instead of as the web server's uid. | Is there anyway to switch to a differnet=20 | non-root user so I can execute these commands as the user with the=20 | proper permissions (using os.system())? This is on a *nix box. setuid(), seteuid(). (probably in the os module) Watch out for security holes in your script! -D --=20 How to shoot yourself in the foot with Java: =20 You find that Microsoft and Sun have released incompatible class libraries both implementing Gun objects. You then find that although there are plenty of feet objects implemented in the past in many other languages, you cannot get access to one. But seeing as Java is so cool, you don't care and go around shooting anything else you can find. (written by Mark Hammond) =20 http://dman.ddts.net/~dman/ --2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj461ccACgkQO8l8XBKTpRRPYwCfTAo2qqDZVMukoJ4e9xfjzAHj vO4AoIwytuC+deiy8XwOPO6V6ZycZ2/9 =xDXC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g--

6.2 Assert statements

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foo

hello

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hello

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Thank you Andy Dustman!

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Hello

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Hello

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Chapter 1

Chapter 2

Appendix

A Beginning is a very delicate time...

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title

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