[Tutor] My two cents worth re Python Newbies

[Sheila King]

I've been an online participant in many web discussion boards, newsgroups, and
mailing lists. While I appreciate the importance of a FAQ and the ability to
use search engines and so forth (I am a Usenet moderator, and a mailing list
owner), of all the groups and forums I participate in, I do not enjoy those
that repeatedly and tersely point newbies to the FAQ nearly as much as those
where every question is patiently answered (or, at worst, ignored). Even when
I've tried to find an answer first, I always thinking someone may still harp
on me when I ask a question. When posting, you always have to "justify" your
question, by first explaining all the trouble you've gone to in order to find
your answer. The assumption, is that the dim-witted newbie doesn't know
enough, or is too lazy, to find the answer themself. In other words: we assume
the worst about the newbie, before we even meet him. It sets up an "us vs.
them" type of atmosphere.

My absolute favorite forum, is the Community Forums at FutureQuest.net
(http://www.aota.net/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi), where I host my website. I just
love participating in that community, because I have never seen an impatient
reply, a pointer to RTFM, but only helpful, encouraging responses. I am never
afraid to ask for help there. Up to this point, this Tutor list has seemed
very much like that, as well. I would hate to see it change.

This list is described as a "tutor" list for those who are new to the language
and need help. I would recommend, that:
(1) if you don't have the patience to reply to a post, because it is in a FAQ
or could be found by a search, then simply don't reply.
(2) if you reply, point the user to the FAQ or other search, with some remark
such as: "You will find more on this topic here <URL>, and you may find much
additional information there." or something like, "Here is a URL you may like
to add to your bookmarks, for future reference." or something gentle, like
that.

I've been a subscriber to this list for over a month now, and I don't see that
the traffic is too high, that it is necessary to change the policies somehow,
to enforce a call to read the FAQ. I also don't think that there should be a
pre-requisite to asking questions on this list, such as ability to use a
search engine effectively.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/

On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:43:53 +1000, Arthur Watts <arthur.watts@gbst.com> wrote
about [Tutor] My two cents worth re Python Newbies:

:Guys,
:
:	I know that this post may attract the odd flame, but please read it
:in its entirety before you begin your reply. 
:
:	The majority of posts to the Tutor mailing lists are from people who
:have tried to resolve a particular problem before resorting to the list.
:Some, however, are simply 'noise'. I find the patient, thoughtful replies
:given by the good souls on this list to be a real eye-opener, and I commend
:you for your warmth and dedication when responding to newbie enquiries. My
:own view is that the list should be for people who are able to :
:
:	a. Read
:	b. Use a Net search engine
:	c. Navigate to www.python.org
:	d. Use the skills detailed above to find other Python resources
:
:	 If people still need to ask questions, then I'm willing to bet that
:the answer will be something which enlightens the majority of the list
:recipients. Python is growing at a phenomenal rate, but we need to keep the
:'information <-> noise' ratio to a minimum, and a Tutor digest filled with
:questions such as 'Is Python any good for CGI / GUI programming /
:pre-schoolers ?' does neither the author nor the Python community any good.
:This is all covered at python.org (OK, some thought may be required re the
:pre-schoolers ..). As for the people who balatantly ask for someone to do
:their Uni assignment for them, I think the moderators have been way too
:polite / lenient ! 
:
:	I realise that some may brand me elitist, but I am far from it : I
:still have a lot to learn re. Python and other Open Source products. The key
:is that I am prepared to actually cut some code or attempt to configure a
:product before I fire off a posting re. a particular issue.  We need to
:welcome thinking people to the Python community, and filter out those who
:have a problem with RTFM. 
:
:	I welcome any constructive criticism on this subject. I don't own
:the list and I'm willing to accept the decision of other subscribers, be it
:ever so painful :}
:
:Regards,
:
:Arthur
:
:Arthur Watts
:Software Engineer GBST Automation
:Global Banking & Securities Transactions
:
:Telephone + 61 7 3331 5555
:mailto: arthur.watts@gbst.com
:www.gbst.com
:
:
:
:
: 
:
:	
:
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