From jim at ibang.com  Mon Mar  7 01:05:32 2011
From: jim at ibang.com (Jim Allman)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 19:05:32 -0500
Subject: [TriZPUG] US PyCon 2011 -- share rides / rooms?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=QJRHdBee2moOePgWVwT_Omr6_9f097mgf7=9n@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=QJRHdBee2moOePgWVwT_Omr6_9f097mgf7=9n@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0E7A3652-D15A-45BF-8396-28089BDCFB08@ibang.com>

On Jan 17, 2011, at 11:22 AM, Tobias McNulty wrote:
> I just noticed that today's the last day for early bird registration to US PyCon US 2011, in Atlanta again this year. [1]
> Anyone in the Triangle planning on going?

I didn't think I was going to be able to attend PyCon, but I'm going! I've registered online, but haven't received final confirmation yet. Fingers crossed.

I'm looking at Amtrak and a cheap hotel on the MARTA, but I'd prefer to share the ride and room if anyone has space. I'm planning on attending just the main conference (Friday morning to Sunday afternoon), but I'm flexible on both ends, esp. Thursday.

  =jimA= 

From philip at semanchuk.com  Mon Mar  7 01:10:19 2011
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 19:10:19 -0500
Subject: [TriZPUG] US PyCon 2011 -- share rides / rooms?
In-Reply-To: <0E7A3652-D15A-45BF-8396-28089BDCFB08@ibang.com>
References: <AANLkTi=QJRHdBee2moOePgWVwT_Omr6_9f097mgf7=9n@mail.gmail.com>
	<0E7A3652-D15A-45BF-8396-28089BDCFB08@ibang.com>
Message-ID: <3B9761E5-35E4-42F4-B8E5-630581520E57@semanchuk.com>


On Mar 6, 2011, at 7:05 PM, Jim Allman wrote:

> On Jan 17, 2011, at 11:22 AM, Tobias McNulty wrote:
>> I just noticed that today's the last day for early bird registration to US PyCon US 2011, in Atlanta again this year. [1]
>> Anyone in the Triangle planning on going?
> 
> I didn't think I was going to be able to attend PyCon, but I'm going! I've registered online, but haven't received final confirmation yet. Fingers crossed.
> 
> I'm looking at Amtrak and a cheap hotel on the MARTA, but I'd prefer to share the ride and room if anyone has space. I'm planning on attending just the main conference (Friday morning to Sunday afternoon), but I'm flexible on both ends, esp. Thursday.

FYI, I got a flight for about $200 round trip on Delta which was only $40 more than Amtrak would have cost. It's sad; I'd prefer the train!

Cheers
Philip


From dragonstrider at gmail.com  Mon Mar  7 15:26:00 2011
From: dragonstrider at gmail.com (Joseph S. Tate)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:26:00 -0500
Subject: [TriZPUG] US PyCon 2011 -- share rides / rooms?
In-Reply-To: <0E7A3652-D15A-45BF-8396-28089BDCFB08@ibang.com>
References: <AANLkTi=QJRHdBee2moOePgWVwT_Omr6_9f097mgf7=9n@mail.gmail.com>
	<0E7A3652-D15A-45BF-8396-28089BDCFB08@ibang.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=Jv2ma6nTP9QPHX_yDhUrAjxTw-PKH1yPo2=TF@mail.gmail.com>

I'll be driving down Thurs afternoon and coming back Monday afternoon
if you want to ride with me.

On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 7:05 PM, Jim Allman <jim at ibang.com> wrote:
> On Jan 17, 2011, at 11:22 AM, Tobias McNulty wrote:
>> I just noticed that today's the last day for early bird registration to US PyCon US 2011, in Atlanta again this year. [1]
>> Anyone in the Triangle planning on going?
>
> I didn't think I was going to be able to attend PyCon, but I'm going! I've registered online, but haven't received final confirmation yet. Fingers crossed.
>
> I'm looking at Amtrak and a cheap hotel on the MARTA, but I'd prefer to share the ride and room if anyone has space. I'm planning on attending just the main conference (Friday morning to Sunday afternoon), but I'm flexible on both ends, esp. Thursday.
>
> ?=jimA=
> _______________________________________________
> TriZPUG mailing list
> TriZPUG at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/trizpug
> http://trizpug.org is the Triangle Zope and Python Users Group
>



-- 
Joseph Tate
Personal e-mail: jtate AT dragonstrider DOT com
Web: http://www.dragonstrider.com

From jim at ibang.com  Mon Mar  7 17:13:11 2011
From: jim at ibang.com (Jim Allman)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 11:13:11 -0500
Subject: [TriZPUG] US PyCon 2011 -- share rides / rooms?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=Jv2ma6nTP9QPHX_yDhUrAjxTw-PKH1yPo2=TF@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=QJRHdBee2moOePgWVwT_Omr6_9f097mgf7=9n@mail.gmail.com>
	<0E7A3652-D15A-45BF-8396-28089BDCFB08@ibang.com>
	<AANLkTi=Jv2ma6nTP9QPHX_yDhUrAjxTw-PKH1yPo2=TF@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=q1ofcrdaz9GEKMsOsphJky8g6q1L7JTHJJRSw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Joseph S. Tate <dragonstrider at gmail.com>wrote:

> I'll be driving down Thurs afternoon and coming back Monday afternoon
> if you want to ride with me.
>

Thanks! I'll need to see about missing work Monday, will follow up when I
know..  =jimA=
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From jim at ibang.com  Wed Mar  9 04:45:38 2011
From: jim at ibang.com (Jim Allman)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 22:45:38 -0500
Subject: [TriZPUG] US PyCon 2011 -- share rides / rooms?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=Jv2ma6nTP9QPHX_yDhUrAjxTw-PKH1yPo2=TF@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=QJRHdBee2moOePgWVwT_Omr6_9f097mgf7=9n@mail.gmail.com>
	<0E7A3652-D15A-45BF-8396-28089BDCFB08@ibang.com>
	<AANLkTi=Jv2ma6nTP9QPHX_yDhUrAjxTw-PKH1yPo2=TF@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <76D6F084-F252-43E0-84B0-B25DA765C7AB@ibang.com>

On Mar 7, 2011, at 9:26 AM, Joseph S. Tate wrote:
> I'll be driving down Thurs afternoon and coming back Monday afternoon
> if you want to ride with me.

Joseph,

I'm clear to take Monday off, so let's roll..

If anyone has (or knows of) a room to share, I'm very interested. Or suggestions for a cheap place somewhere close to a MARTA station. I'll be in town Thurs-Monday (4 nights).

Thanks!

  =jimA=




From jmack at wm7d.net  Thu Mar 10 17:03:30 2011
From: jmack at wm7d.net (Joseph Mack NA3T)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 08:03:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TriZPUG] undefined symbol after numpy install
In-Reply-To: <4D407BB1.5040202@unc.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1101260920350.26551@wm7d.net>
	<4D407BB1.5040202@unc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103100743240.17288@wm7d.net>

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011, Chris Calloway wrote:

> On 1/26/2011 12:28 PM, Joseph Mack NA3T wrote:
>> I've installed numpy on several machines, sometimes it works and
>> sometimes it doesn't.
>
> It's about the way lapack is built on the machines where it fails. It sounds 
> like you need a shared (not static) lapack built with -fPIC.

I'm back at this again.

I've installed the SuiteSparse files (including libamd.a and 
libumfpack.a) in /usr/local/lib and I can't seem to get 
numpy to pick them up.

In the numpy-1.5.1 site.cfg I have

#
[amd]
amd_libs = amd
#
[umfpack]
umfpack_libs = umfpack

[DEFAULT]
library_dirs = /usr/local/lib
include_dirs = /usr/local/include


In numpy/distutils/system_info.py

I have the default

        'amd':amd_info,

in cl={};

My evidence that libamd.a is not picked up is that there 
isn't any output during the compile with the string "amd" 
that would indicate that it's being added. The other 
libraries (eg lapack) give notice that they're being found.

Presumably I go into the code that detects the libraries and 
start putting print statements?

Thanks Joe

-- 
Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!

From tobias at caktusgroup.com  Sat Mar 12 18:19:12 2011
From: tobias at caktusgroup.com (Tobias McNulty)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 12:19:12 -0500
Subject: [TriZPUG] Linux Systems Administrator with Python / Django
	experience at Caktus
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=zL1ir4dFJoRAtmcUUNzT+JR4OxNj-b_t7ZO5Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Just wanted to let you know that we've published a new job posting for a
Linux Systems Administrator with Python and/or Django experience at Caktus.
 The position will involve maintaining existing Linux servers, designing and
building highly-scalable deployments, and assistance with Python / Django
deployment and development as time permits.  This is a full-time position,
with benefits, and is based out of our Carrboro, NC office.

For more information, check out the job posting on our web site at:

http://www.caktusgroup.com/careers/linux-systems-administrator/

Kindly drop us an email at jobs+trizpug at caktusgroup.com if you or someone
you know might be interested in the position, and feel free to forward at
will.

<http://www.caktusgroup.com/careers/linux-systems-administrator/>Thanks!
Tobias
-- 
Tobias McNulty, Managing Partner
Caktus Consulting Group, LLC
http://www.caktusgroup.com
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From cbc at unc.edu  Mon Mar 21 17:29:57 2011
From: cbc at unc.edu (Chris Calloway)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:29:57 -0400
Subject: [TriZPUG] TriZPUG March 2011 Meeting: PyCon Recap Lightning Talks
Message-ID: <4D877D05.7050503@unc.edu>

http://trizpug.org/Members/cbc/mar-11-mtg

We'd like to hear your lightning talks about what you took away from 
PyCon. Come share your PyCon experience through lightning talks. 
Lightning talks are 5 to 10 minutes extemporaneous expositions on a 
topic of interest to you, something you recently learned, kind of like a 
show and tell.

We'll be meeting at a new location in downtown Durham, Splatspace, a 
non-profit member-supported workshop and hacker meeting place. 
Splatspace is located in the basement of the Snow Building. Parking 
(free exit after 7pm) is in the back of the building in the lot off 
Ramseur St. on the downtown Durham loop (one way, approach Ramseur from 
W. Main St. or W. Chapel Hill St.. If you arrive after 7pm, please call 
919-704-4225(HACK) to be let in the door.

After meeting at the Beyu Caffee, directly above SplatSpace.

-- 
Sincerely,

Chris Calloway http://nccoos.org/Members/cbc
office: 3313 Venable Hall   phone: (919) 599-3530
mail: Campus Box #3300, UNC-CH, Chapel Hill, NC 27599

From cbc at unc.edu  Mon Mar 21 17:56:45 2011
From: cbc at unc.edu (Chris Calloway)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:56:45 -0400
Subject: [TriZPUG] TriZPUG March 2011 Meeting: PyCon Recap Lightning
	Talks
In-Reply-To: <4D877D05.7050503@unc.edu>
References: <4D877D05.7050503@unc.edu>
Message-ID: <4D87834D.2030903@unc.edu>

On 3/21/2011 12:29 PM, Chris Calloway wrote:
> http://trizpug.org/Members/cbc/mar-11-mtg

That is: This Thursday, March 24, 2011 at 7pm.

-- 
Sincerely,

Chris Calloway http://nccoos.org/Members/cbc
office: 3313 Venable Hall   phone: (919) 599-3530
mail: Campus Box #3300, UNC-CH, Chapel Hill, NC 27599

From cbc at unc.edu  Thu Mar 24 17:46:15 2011
From: cbc at unc.edu (Chris Calloway)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 12:46:15 -0400
Subject: [TriZPUG] TriZPUG March 2011 Meeting: PyCon Recap Lightning
 Talks: REMINDER
In-Reply-To: <4D87834D.2030903@unc.edu>
References: <4D877D05.7050503@unc.edu> <4D87834D.2030903@unc.edu>
Message-ID: <4D8B7557.4010605@unc.edu>

Reminder: meeting is tonight.

On 3/21/2011 12:56 PM, Chris Calloway wrote:
> On 3/21/2011 12:29 PM, Chris Calloway wrote:
>> http://trizpug.org/Members/cbc/mar-11-mtg
>
> That is: This Thursday, March 24, 2011 at 7pm.

-- 
Sincerely,

Chris Calloway http://nccoos.org/Members/cbc
office: 3313 Venable Hall   phone: (919) 599-3530
mail: Campus Box #3300, UNC-CH, Chapel Hill, NC 27599

From cbc at unc.edu  Fri Mar 25 15:35:11 2011
From: cbc at unc.edu (Chris Calloway)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:35:11 -0400
Subject: [TriZPUG] Fwd: New blog from python-dev
Message-ID: <4D8CA81F.8040005@unc.edu>

FYI...

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: New blog from python-dev
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 09:58:30 -0400
From: Doug Hellmann <doug.hellmann at gmail.com>
Reply-To: <python-list at python.org>
To: <python-announce at python.org>

Python Insider (http://blog.python.org/) is a new blog from the Python 
core development team. It will provide a way for people who don't follow 
the mailing list to get an overview of topics discussed there, and 
especially to learn about changes in store for Python. We will be 
writing about Python-Dev activities such as the recently completed 
migration to Mercurial hosting, newly approved Python Enhancement 
Proposals (PEPs), API changes, and other major efforts going on in 
Python core development.

Think of this blog as your window into the evolution of Python. There 
are a variety of ways to subscribe, including email and Twitter. The 
details and links are in the welcome message for the blog 
(http://blog.python.org/2011/03/welcome-to-python-insider.html).

Doug
--
Doug Hellmann
Communications Director
Python Software Foundation
http://python.org/psf/

From josh_johnson at unc.edu  Tue Mar 29 15:16:49 2011
From: josh_johnson at unc.edu (Josh Johnson)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:16:49 -0400
Subject: [TriZPUG] Wanted: Biased Opinions: Django or Pyramid (Pylons/BFG)?
Message-ID: <4D91DBC1.4020700@unc.edu>

This isn't a typical "I've never used a web framework, what should I 
pick" post, I promise.

I'm about to embark on a new project that doesn't have a platform 
requirement. I've spent the last year or so working on a very large, 
very anno--er--challenging Plone project, and I'm ready for something 
different.

I'm honestly interested in hearing _biased_, non-objective, highly 
personal accounts of why I should use Django or Pyramid.

I've got more-than-basic understandings of both, but I don't have a 
large amount of real-world experience with either. I'd feel comfortable 
proceeding either way.

I know there are a lot of very smart people around here using both to do 
some really big things, so I figure, this might be my best chance at 
getting some usable advice :)

I also think very highly of our community and don't see this devolving 
into a flame-war. However, I'm very OK with discussing this off-list, on 
#trizpug, 'IRL', over food, in a sauna, whatever. My passport isn't 
current, so clandestine meetings in countries without extradition 
treaties are out. :P

I'm very happy to elaborate on the requirements we do have, but it's a 
pretty basic app that I think either platform could handle well. It'll 
be open source, so easy deployment is important, but I think both 
frameworks cover that well.

Thanks!
JJ

-- 
Josh Johnson
Applications Analyst
Lineberger Comprehensive Cancer Center
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

From chris at archimedeanco.com  Tue Mar 29 15:42:15 2011
From: chris at archimedeanco.com (Chris Rossi)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:42:15 -0400
Subject: [TriZPUG] Wanted: Biased Opinions: Django or Pyramid
	(Pylons/BFG)?
In-Reply-To: <4D91DBC1.4020700@unc.edu>
References: <4D91DBC1.4020700@unc.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=vjH7WjQWjGkidO=nTFSxmX9MRhPtHjg8ZRxpK@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Josh,

I know you won't be shocked to hear this from me, but I would use Pyramid.
 Knowing your background with Plone and Zope, Pyramid will allow you (but
not force you) to use a lot of the same patterns and technologies you
already know and love from that world without a lot of the extra baggage
that comes with it.  The basic concepts will not be hard for you to pick up
and I'm guessing you can start building something useful very quickly.
 Since repoze.bfg has become Pyramid and merged with the Pylons project, the
community has been growing at a breakneck pace, so you'll have lots of good
company.

That said, you might still consider using Django--Django resembles the
Zope/Plone world you are used to in that it provides a full stack approach
where most of the really big decisions have been made for you.  I suspect,
though, that this might be what you are trying to get away from by venturing
out from the Zope/Plone world, so maybe you don't want to trade one
confining paradigm for another.  On the plus side, almost none of your
experience with Zope/Plone will carry over.  ;)

One of the more compelling advantages of Pyramid over Django, I think, is
the extensibility story.  It is possible in Pyramid to write applications
that provide plug points that can be extended by other applications.  Like
Plone/Zope 3, Pyramid provides a story where application B can be written
that modifies application A without ever having to touch the source code for
application A.  The standard Django and Pylons 1.x way to do this, by
contrast, is to fork application A and include the forked code in
application B.  In an environment where folks are still developing
application A, this makes it hard to upgrade.  Unlike Plone/Zope3, there is
not a culture in Pyramid of assuming that every single line of code you
write is part of a 'component' which might be overridden--you can write
fairly straightforward code.

If you plan to write a single stand alone application that neither depends
on another Pyramid app nor would ever be depended on by another Pyramid app,
though, then extensibility is irrelevant.  Many people will never need to do
anything like that.

At any rate, lots of people are very happy working with both Pyramid and
Django, so there's no wrong choice.  But my biased opinion is Pyramid.  Plus
Pyramid has a pretty bad ass mummy/zombie thing on it's side:

http://laflamme.storenvy.com/products/66831-pyramid-not-built-by-aliens-t-shirt

I'm pretty sure that would eat the pink pony for lunch.

Chris

PS There have been some pretty wild rumors running around about Pyramid and
its developers.  Some people, I guess, have nothing better to do than make
up wild stories.  For the record, though, none of it is true:

http://docs.pylonsproject.org/denials/pyramid.html



On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Josh Johnson <josh_johnson at unc.edu> wrote:

> This isn't a typical "I've never used a web framework, what should I pick"
> post, I promise.
>
> I'm about to embark on a new project that doesn't have a platform
> requirement. I've spent the last year or so working on a very large, very
> anno--er--challenging Plone project, and I'm ready for something different.
>
> I'm honestly interested in hearing _biased_, non-objective, highly personal
> accounts of why I should use Django or Pyramid.
>
> I've got more-than-basic understandings of both, but I don't have a large
> amount of real-world experience with either. I'd feel comfortable proceeding
> either way.
>
> I know there are a lot of very smart people around here using both to do
> some really big things, so I figure, this might be my best chance at getting
> some usable advice :)
>
> I also think very highly of our community and don't see this devolving into
> a flame-war. However, I'm very OK with discussing this off-list, on
> #trizpug, 'IRL', over food, in a sauna, whatever. My passport isn't current,
> so clandestine meetings in countries without extradition treaties are out.
> :P
>
> I'm very happy to elaborate on the requirements we do have, but it's a
> pretty basic app that I think either platform could handle well. It'll be
> open source, so easy deployment is important, but I think both frameworks
> cover that well.
>
> Thanks!
> JJ
>
> --
> Josh Johnson
> Applications Analyst
> Lineberger Comprehensive Cancer Center
> University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
> _______________________________________________
> TriZPUG mailing list
> TriZPUG at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/trizpug
> http://trizpug.org is the Triangle Zope and Python Users Group
>
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From pmclanahan at gmail.com  Tue Mar 29 16:48:24 2011
From: pmclanahan at gmail.com (Paul McLanahan)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 10:48:24 -0400
Subject: [TriZPUG] Wanted: Biased Opinions: Django or Pyramid
	(Pylons/BFG)?
In-Reply-To: <4D91DBC1.4020700@unc.edu>
References: <4D91DBC1.4020700@unc.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimxnGTUj-N-eVOTY-J+wZN1Xzep0ZEMFR0FmX1a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Josh,

I would (and did) definitely go with Django. It's really all about the
docs. Their documentation is outstanding, so anything you might want
or need to know about the framework is in the docs and is easy to read
and understand. If you want to do something strange, it's almost
guaranteed that there's already an opensource app out there to handle
what you want, or at the very least a blog post explaining the
technique. I've found that all of this material not only helps you get
going quickly, but it continues supporting you through the end of a
project as well.

I also love how Django is just Python. Granted, I've never used
repose.bfg, Pylons, or Pyramid, but that's mainly because I started
with Django and haven't felt the need to shop. If I need custom
methods on my model or queryset instances, I just subclass. If I need
to extend the template system, I write a simple function and register
it. It just provides all the tools you'll need, and easy and well
thought-out ways of extending them to be exactly what you need. This
is especially true of many of the new and reworked features in the
freshly released 1.3.

The other thing that I believe has propelled Django to being one of
the most popular web frameworks in any language is its extensibility.
It has the concept of reusable apps. An "app" can have it's own urls,
models, views, templates, static media, admin definitions, etc.. There
are thousands of these out there for your use and more being released
all the time. Some of the more popular ones enable popular
registration patterns, private betas, an amazing debugging toolbar,
background async task queuing, content pagination, etc., etc.. These
are really all just python packages and the only requirement is that
they exist on your python path. You then add the package namespace to
a tuple in your settings.py, and you're good to go. The well made ones
are all highly customizable w/o a need to modify their code, and are
easy to seamlessly integrate into your site.

You can also easily build your own library of apps for use on future
projects. Just keep them around and you'll be following DRY (Don't
Repeat Yourself) across projects, and not just in a single codebase.

I'm sure that others on this list can more eloquently explain all of
the advantages of Django. I'll just say that I've loved using it since
I started almost 4 years ago. I have tried a number of other
frameworks and languages (PHP, Ruby, Perl) before finding Django and
Python, but none of them has fit my brain so well as this. It helps me
with the drudgery of stuff I need but don't want to do for every
project, but gets out of my way to let me do the things that make my
site different. The skillful balancing of that aspect, plus the
massive, helpful, and engaged community has led me to believe that
Django is the best tool for a very wide range of web app jobs. It's
certainly not good at everything, but as far as a framework can be
truly general-purpose, I believe Django is the best.

Plus, I'm pretty sure Pyramid was made by aliens. I mean; look at
their crazy 80s hair metal concert shirt ;)

Good luck,

Paul McLanahan

From cbc at unc.edu  Tue Mar 29 22:41:41 2011
From: cbc at unc.edu (Chris Calloway)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 16:41:41 -0400
Subject: [TriZPUG] Wanted: Biased Opinions: Django or
	Pyramid	(Pylons/BFG)?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=vjH7WjQWjGkidO=nTFSxmX9MRhPtHjg8ZRxpK@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D91DBC1.4020700@unc.edu>
	<AANLkTi=vjH7WjQWjGkidO=nTFSxmX9MRhPtHjg8ZRxpK@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D924405.9030900@unc.edu>

On 3/29/2011 9:42 AM, Chris Rossi wrote:
> On the plus side, almost none of your
> experience with Zope/Plone will carry over.  ;)

That's so clever!

Pyramid: Pay for what you eat; brown bagging welcome. Documentation is 
off the charts amazing.

Django: All you can eat fixed price frozen food buffet sitting under 
heat lamps; extra service charge for bringing in your own food. Everyone 
you know goes there.


-- 
Sincerely,

Chris Calloway http://nccoos.org/Members/cbc
office: 3313 Venable Hall   phone: (919) 599-3530
mail: Campus Box #3300, UNC-CH, Chapel Hill, NC 27599

From jcd at sdf.lonestar.org  Tue Mar 29 23:28:30 2011
From: jcd at sdf.lonestar.org (J. Cliff Dyer)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:28:30 -0400
Subject: [TriZPUG] Wanted: Biased Opinions: Django or Pyramid
 (Pylons/BFG)?
In-Reply-To: <4D924405.9030900@unc.edu>
References: <4D91DBC1.4020700@unc.edu>
	<AANLkTi=vjH7WjQWjGkidO=nTFSxmX9MRhPtHjg8ZRxpK@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D924405.9030900@unc.edu>
Message-ID: <1301434110.2202.13.camel@jcdyer-laptop>



On Tue, 2011-03-29 at 16:41 -0400, Chris Calloway wrote:
> On 3/29/2011 9:42 AM, Chris Rossi wrote:
> > On the plus side, almost none of your
> > experience with Zope/Plone will carry over.  ;)
> 
> That's so clever!
> 
> Pyramid: Pay for what you eat; brown bagging welcome. Documentation
> is 
> off the charts amazing.
> 
> Django: All you can eat fixed price frozen food buffet sitting under 
> heat lamps; extra service charge for bringing in your own food.
> Everyone 
> you know goes there.
> 
> 

Also clever, but pretty inaccurate for most versions of Django > 0.96 in
my experience.  Django provides relatively straightforward hooks for
overriding most default behavior, and documents those techniques clearly
and in a well-organized fashion.

I know the post says biased opinions wanted, but let's try to keep them
informative rather than flamey, shall we?  If you have actual critiques
of actual behavior and design decisions in Django, that would be very
useful.  What you have said, in my opinion, is not useful.

Cheers,
Cliff


From pmclanahan at gmail.com  Wed Mar 30 00:00:00 2011
From: pmclanahan at gmail.com (Paul McLanahan)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:00:00 -0400
Subject: [TriZPUG] Wanted: Biased Opinions: Django or Pyramid
	(Pylons/BFG)?
In-Reply-To: <4D924405.9030900@unc.edu>
References: <4D91DBC1.4020700@unc.edu>
	<AANLkTi=vjH7WjQWjGkidO=nTFSxmX9MRhPtHjg8ZRxpK@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D924405.9030900@unc.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinx4kzUaQc4Y1Onb2_+dgydHm5AdtfZST0f_xjt@mail.gmail.com>

All trolling aside, I prefer Django exactly because it's not a
smorgasbord of choices and options. Some do indeed ding it for being
opinionated and too tightly coupled among its components, but I find
this to be an advantage. You'll never find a "Pyramid" developer.
You'll find someone who knows the basic framework, but no one will
know much about any codebase because it's almost impossible that any
one project will have made the same choices as another. The database
server, library, and api are purely up to you. While that's nice and
flexible, you'll never have a crush of awesome apps ready to use which
bring their own data models that will "just work" no matter which
persistence backend you've chosen as they do in Django. Django does a
LOT of work to ensure that their API is consistent across backends for
databases, cache, sessions, etc.. If you sit down with a random Django
project, you'll be able to get to work. The same is not true of a
Pyramid one. Flexibility has a cost. I think Django strikes the right
balance. They're even attempting to be more flexible as time goes on
to allow you to bring your own template engine for example, w/o so
much work. But it is stil work, and you will have to go without some
nice features, but it is your choice.

Paul

From jmack at wm7d.net  Thu Mar 31 16:35:40 2011
From: jmack at wm7d.net (Joseph Mack NA3T)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 07:35:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TriZPUG] gtk module finds wrong libraries
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310720160.23984@wm7d.net>

linux 2.6.x
python2.6 in /usr/local/lib

I'm installing on a system with old gnome libraries (eg gtk) 
which are in /usr/lib64 (/usr/lib64 is in /etc/ld.so.conf). 
Due to administrative constraints, I have to install in 
/usr/local, where I have installed the current gnome 
libraries, python and its modules. Thus I have new libraries 
in /usr/local/lib and the old libraries in /usr/lib64. 
/usr/local/lib is _not_ in /etc/ld.so.conf and I handle 
finding these libraries first by having /usr/local/lib first 
in LD_LIBRARY_PATH. This works so far, except the case here.

When I import gtk I get

Python 2.6.5 (r265:79063, Jan 26 2011, 11:29:31)
[GCC 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-46)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import gtk
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
   File 
"/usr/local/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py", line 48, in <module>
     from gtk import _gtk
ImportError: 
/usr/local/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_gtk.so: undefined symbol: gtk_recent_action_get_type
>>>

The undefined symbol is in the new gnome libraries in 
/usr/local/lib, but not in the old libraries in /usr/lib64. 
It seems that python is looking to /etc/ld.so.conf (which 
directs it to /usr/lib64) to find its libraries, rather than 
using LD_LIBRARY_PATH.

If I move the old gnome libraries in /usr/lib64 out of the 
way, I can import gtk just fine. I'm not allowed to use this 
as a permanent solution and have to restore the old 
libraries.

How do I get python to look in /usr/local/lib before 
/usr/lib64 for its libraries?

I haven't found anything in Beazley, although I expect I 
don't know where to look.

Thanks Joe
-- 
Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!

From david at handysoftware.com  Thu Mar 31 17:44:00 2011
From: david at handysoftware.com (David Handy)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:44:00 -0400
Subject: [TriZPUG] gtk module finds wrong libraries
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310720160.23984@wm7d.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310720160.23984@wm7d.net>
Message-ID: <20110331154359.GA28908@blackbeauty>

It sounds like LD_LIBRARY_PATH is not working. I don't know why it is not
working for you, but some other things you could try (I haven't tested them
myself):

Since you apparently compiled Python yourself, read carefully through the
configure options and see if there is something that allows you to set the
shared libary search path to explicitly search /usr/local/lib first.

Try starting python using /lib/ld-linux.so.2, which is supposed to have the
same effect as LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-libraries.html

Maybe others on this list will have better ideas than these for you to
try...

Good luck!
David H


On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 07:35:40AM -0700, Joseph Mack NA3T wrote:
> linux 2.6.x
> python2.6 in /usr/local/lib
> 
> I'm installing on a system with old gnome libraries (eg gtk) which
> are in /usr/lib64 (/usr/lib64 is in /etc/ld.so.conf). Due to
> administrative constraints, I have to install in /usr/local, where I
> have installed the current gnome libraries, python and its modules.
> Thus I have new libraries in /usr/local/lib and the old libraries in
> /usr/lib64. /usr/local/lib is _not_ in /etc/ld.so.conf and I handle
> finding these libraries first by having /usr/local/lib first in
> LD_LIBRARY_PATH. This works so far, except the case here.
> 
> When I import gtk I get
> 
> Python 2.6.5 (r265:79063, Jan 26 2011, 11:29:31)
> [GCC 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-46)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>>import gtk
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>   File
> "/usr/local/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py",
> line 48, in <module>
>     from gtk import _gtk
> ImportError:
> /usr/local/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_gtk.so:
> undefined symbol: gtk_recent_action_get_type
> >>>
> 
> The undefined symbol is in the new gnome libraries in
> /usr/local/lib, but not in the old libraries in /usr/lib64. It seems
> that python is looking to /etc/ld.so.conf (which directs it to
> /usr/lib64) to find its libraries, rather than using
> LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
> 
> If I move the old gnome libraries in /usr/lib64 out of the way, I
> can import gtk just fine. I'm not allowed to use this as a permanent
> solution and have to restore the old libraries.
> 
> How do I get python to look in /usr/local/lib before /usr/lib64 for
> its libraries?
> 
> I haven't found anything in Beazley, although I expect I don't know
> where to look.
> 
> Thanks Joe
> -- 
> Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
> jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
> generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
> Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!
> _______________________________________________
> TriZPUG mailing list
> TriZPUG at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/trizpug
> http://trizpug.org is the Triangle Zope and Python Users Group

From david at handysoftware.com  Thu Mar 31 18:00:44 2011
From: david at handysoftware.com (David Handy)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:00:44 -0400
Subject: [TriZPUG] gtk module finds wrong libraries
In-Reply-To: <20110331154359.GA28908@blackbeauty>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310720160.23984@wm7d.net>
	<20110331154359.GA28908@blackbeauty>
Message-ID: <20110331160044.GA28931@blackbeauty>

On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 11:44:00AM -0400, David Handy wrote:
> Since you apparently compiled Python yourself, read carefully through the
> configure options and see if there is something that allows you to set the
> shared libary search path to explicitly search /usr/local/lib first.

In other words, try setting the "rpath", or run-time shared library search
path, at Python compile-time.

http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/notes/rpath.html

David H

> On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 07:35:40AM -0700, Joseph Mack NA3T wrote:
> > linux 2.6.x
> > python2.6 in /usr/local/lib
> > 
> > I'm installing on a system with old gnome libraries (eg gtk) which
> > are in /usr/lib64 (/usr/lib64 is in /etc/ld.so.conf). Due to
> > administrative constraints, I have to install in /usr/local, where I
> > have installed the current gnome libraries, python and its modules.
> > Thus I have new libraries in /usr/local/lib and the old libraries in
> > /usr/lib64. /usr/local/lib is _not_ in /etc/ld.so.conf and I handle
> > finding these libraries first by having /usr/local/lib first in
> > LD_LIBRARY_PATH. This works so far, except the case here.
> > 
> > When I import gtk I get
> > 
> > Python 2.6.5 (r265:79063, Jan 26 2011, 11:29:31)
> > [GCC 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-46)] on linux2
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> > >>>import gtk
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py",
> > line 48, in <module>
> >     from gtk import _gtk
> > ImportError:
> > /usr/local/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_gtk.so:
> > undefined symbol: gtk_recent_action_get_type
> > >>>
> > 
> > The undefined symbol is in the new gnome libraries in
> > /usr/local/lib, but not in the old libraries in /usr/lib64. It seems
> > that python is looking to /etc/ld.so.conf (which directs it to
> > /usr/lib64) to find its libraries, rather than using
> > LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
> > 
> > If I move the old gnome libraries in /usr/lib64 out of the way, I
> > can import gtk just fine. I'm not allowed to use this as a permanent
> > solution and have to restore the old libraries.
> > 
> > How do I get python to look in /usr/local/lib before /usr/lib64 for
> > its libraries?
> > 
> > I haven't found anything in Beazley, although I expect I don't know
> > where to look.
> > 
> > Thanks Joe
> > -- 
> > Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
> > jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
> > generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
> > Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!
> > _______________________________________________
> > TriZPUG mailing list
> > TriZPUG at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/trizpug
> > http://trizpug.org is the Triangle Zope and Python Users Group
> _______________________________________________
> TriZPUG mailing list
> TriZPUG at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/trizpug
> http://trizpug.org is the Triangle Zope and Python Users Group

From jmack at wm7d.net  Thu Mar 31 18:07:47 2011
From: jmack at wm7d.net (Joseph Mack NA3T)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:07:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TriZPUG] gtk module finds wrong libraries
In-Reply-To: <20110331154359.GA28908@blackbeauty>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310720160.23984@wm7d.net>
	<20110331154359.GA28908@blackbeauty>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310905030.1551@wm7d.net>

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011, David Handy wrote:

> Try starting python using /lib/ld-linux.so.2, which is supposed to have the
> same effect as LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-libraries.html

Hi David,

thanks. This doesn't work

/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 --library-path /usr/local/lib python

(I then `import gtk`)

but this does

LD_PRELOAD=/usr/local/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so python

let me try your rpath suggestion

Joe

-- 
Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!

From jmack at wm7d.net  Thu Mar 31 19:03:10 2011
From: jmack at wm7d.net (Joseph Mack NA3T)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:03:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TriZPUG] gtk module finds wrong libraries
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310905030.1551@wm7d.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310720160.23984@wm7d.net>
	<20110331154359.GA28908@blackbeauty>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310905030.1551@wm7d.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310953030.12200@wm7d.net>

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011, Joseph Mack NA3T wrote:

> let me try your rpath suggestion


you can can rpath info to the binary with patchelf

patchelf --set-interpreter /my/lib/my-ld-linux.so.2 /usr/local/bin/python2.6

and then inspect with

readelf -d /usr/local/bin/python2.6  | grep -i path
  0x000000000000000f (RPATH)              Library rpath: [/usr/local/lib]

(there was no RPATH visible before running patchelf)

but this doesn't help.

I then tried the rpath route. The options for gcc have 
changed and this which I found on one page no longer works

make CC="gcc -R /usr/local/lib"

The incantation I found was

../configure LDFLAGS="-Wl,-rpath,/usr/local/lib"  .....

which produces a binary with the same output from readelf 
as the one which had been modified by patchelf.

but this doesn't help either.

The only thing that helps is the LD_PRELOAD trick I wrote 
about in the previous e-mail.

Does this tell you where the problem is?

Joe
-- 
Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!

From jmack at wm7d.net  Thu Mar 31 20:19:39 2011
From: jmack at wm7d.net (Joseph Mack NA3T)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:19:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TriZPUG] gtk module finds wrong libraries
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310953030.12200@wm7d.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310720160.23984@wm7d.net>
	<20110331154359.GA28908@blackbeauty>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310905030.1551@wm7d.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310953030.12200@wm7d.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103311119110.20517@wm7d.net>

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011, Joseph Mack NA3T wrote:

> you can can rpath info to the binary with patchelf
>
> patchelf --set-interpreter /my/lib/my-ld-linux.so.2 /usr/local/bin/python2.6

this should be

patchelf --set-rpath /opt/my-libs/lib:/foo/lib program

Joe
-- 
Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!

From david at handysoftware.com  Thu Mar 31 20:18:05 2011
From: david at handysoftware.com (David Handy)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:18:05 -0400
Subject: [TriZPUG] gtk module finds wrong libraries
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310953030.12200@wm7d.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310720160.23984@wm7d.net>
	<20110331154359.GA28908@blackbeauty>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310905030.1551@wm7d.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310953030.12200@wm7d.net>
Message-ID: <20110331181805.GB28931@blackbeauty>

On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:03:10AM -0700, Joseph Mack NA3T wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2011, Joseph Mack NA3T wrote:
> The only thing that helps is the LD_PRELOAD trick I wrote about in
> the previous e-mail.
> 
> Does this tell you where the problem is?

In this matter I am more of a well-intentioned peer than an all-knowing
expert. In other words, just now I had to google LD_PRELOAD to find out what
it does. :)

However, your problem intrigues me. Why isn't LD_LIBRARY_PATH working?

I decided to try using strace on my Linux system to find which places are
actually searched for libgtk. What follows is a transcript of what I did, so
you can compare with your system if you want to try it:

$ cat t.py
import gtk
$ strace python t.py > out.txt 2>&1
$ grep libgtk out.txt
open("/usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = 5

I scanned 5 lines back from the libgtk reference in out.txt and saw this:

open("/etc/ld.so.cache", O_RDONLY)      = 5

I decided to be brave and rename /etc/ld.so.cache and try again:

$ sudo mv /etc/ld.so.cache /etc/ld.so.cache.x
$ strace python t.py > out2.txt 2>&1
$ grep libgtk out2.txt
open("/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No
such file or directory)
open("/lib/tls/i686/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such
file or directory)
open("/lib/tls/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or
directory)
open("/lib/i686/cmov/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such
file or directory)
open("/lib/i686/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or
directory)
open("/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or
directory)
open("/usr/lib/i686/sse2/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No
such file or directory)
open("/usr/lib/i686/cmov/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No
such file or directory)
open("/usr/lib/i686/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such
file or directory)
open("/usr/lib/sse2/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such
file or directory)
open("/usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = 5

When I disabled the cache for looking up the library, it searched in 10
other places for libgtk before it found the right one.

Next, I tried again with LD_LIBRARY_PATH:

$ LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/lib strace python t.py > out3.txt 2>&1
$ grep libgtk out3.txt
open("/usr/local/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such
file or directory)
open("/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No
such file or directory)
open("/lib/tls/i686/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such
file or directory)
open("/lib/tls/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or
directory)
open("/lib/i686/cmov/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such
file or directory)
open("/lib/i686/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or
directory)
open("/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or
directory)
open("/usr/lib/i686/sse2/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No
such file or directory)
open("/usr/lib/i686/cmov/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No
such file or directory)
open("/usr/lib/i686/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such
file or directory)
open("/usr/lib/sse2/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such
file or directory)
open("/usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0", O_RDONLY) = 5

Using LD_LIBRARY_PATH caused it to search /usr/local/lib before any other
place, just as I expected. I wonder if your results would differ?

I don't know if this will help you, but it was educational for me.

David H

From jmack at wm7d.net  Thu Mar 31 21:06:35 2011
From: jmack at wm7d.net (Joseph Mack NA3T)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:06:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TriZPUG] gtk module finds wrong libraries
In-Reply-To: <20110331181805.GB28931@blackbeauty>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310720160.23984@wm7d.net>
	<20110331154359.GA28908@blackbeauty>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310905030.1551@wm7d.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1103310953030.12200@wm7d.net>
	<20110331181805.GB28931@blackbeauty>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1103311136290.22550@wm7d.net>

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011, David Handy wrote:

>> Does this tell you where the problem is?
>
> In this matter I am more of a well-intentioned peer than 
> an all-knowing expert.

well I have a functioning system now as a result of your 
suggestions, so you're expert enough. I don't care that it's 
a kludge.

> However, your problem intrigues me. Why isn't LD_LIBRARY_PATH working?

yes, good question ;-\

> I decided to try using strace on my Linux system to find 
> which places are actually searched for libgtk. What 
> follows is a transcript of what I did, so you can compare 
> with your system if you want to try it:

Thanks for the test. I can't scrub the cache file, but I get 
the same result with or without LD_LIBRARY_PATH set, ie 
python only looks in /usr/lib64

Joe
-- 
Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
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