From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jan 15 13:23:37 2013
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 06:23:37 -0600
Subject: [spambayes-dev] [Spambayes] Outlook 2013
In-Reply-To: <50F3E8E5.20205@cubiclesoft.com>
References: <000001cdf1fc$597bf180$0c73d480$@gmail.com>
	<50F371E8.5040107@cubiclesoft.com>
	<CANc-5UxQpjseC8xLwVMRa6ydoB-+C2U7jFzFG28QYC6tE+boUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50F3E8E5.20205@cubiclesoft.com>
Message-ID: <CANc-5Uy89wTthXeNxyfRcakBUObVb7g9R75BAtAkZtyjE6+JcA@mail.gmail.com>

This is a discussion better held on spambayes-dev, so I'm cc'ing that
list and removing the spambayes list.  Since most of the people here
won't have seen the original note, I've included it below in its
entirety.

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 5:15 AM, Thomas Hruska <thruska at cubiclesoft.com> wrote:
> On 1/13/2013 9:13 PM, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps you have forgotten that SpamBayes is open source software.
>> You (or anyone else) are more than welcome to grab the source and do
>> what needs to be done to get SpamBayes working again with more recent
>> versions of Windows.  I have put out the plea for developers various
>> places more than once and have always been met with silence.
>
>
> This is where you officially move the project(s) to GitHub and pay attention
> to pull requests.  You're more likely to get people contributing on GitHub
> than SourceForge.  Forking, modifying, and submitting pull requests is just
> as easy as merging and accepting the pull request into the main branch.  If
> you don't want to do any development (the hard part anyway), the key is to
> stay on top of pull requests and don't let them sit around in the queue for
> more than a couple weeks.  The work on your end becomes rather minimal -
> taking more of a hands-off managerial role.
>
> Automating builds is also important so that someone can grab the latest
> binaries and run them.  Once the automated system works, it is also fairly
> hands-off.
>
>> As one of the lesser SpamBayes developers, I actually find I no longer
>> need SpamBayes.  Over time, the various organizations which provide me
>> with my daily diet of email (pobox.com and Gmail) have gotten better
>> and better at filtering out spam.  Before I actually stopped using it,
>> those providers did such a good job that it was pretty rare that the
>> software was even exercised.  I suspect some of the other SpamBayes
>> developers may also be former SpamBayes users.  Time marches on.
>
>
> I suspected this was the case.  A move to GitHub would at least afford new
> life into the product.  There's always room for improvement. Spambayes is
> still useful as a tool in corporate environments where most companies have
> their own mail servers and half of the anti-spam appliances are terrible at
> dealing with spam (legit mail gets hung up more often than not and spam
> leaks like a sieve).  For example, Postini is owned by Google, but it does a
> rather terrible job at filtering spam.  Google has plans to shut it down
> though.  At that point, companies might come running to solutions like this
> if they don't like the results.  Positioning this project for that possible
> eventuality would be a smart move.
>
> The key to developing software is to use it daily.  You might want to
> consider dropping pobox.com and Gmail if their anti-spam measures are so
> good that you no longer feel the need to develop this product. Enterprises
> still need good server and client-side anti-spam tools and that likely won't
> change any time soon.  To that end, this product should shift focus from
> meeting individual needs to the needs of the enterprise.
>
> --
> Thomas Hruska
> CubicleSoft President
>
> I've got great, time saving software that you might find useful.
>
> http://cubiclesoft.com/

I know about the technical advantages of moving from centralized to
distributed version control.  That, by itself, won't change anything.
Besides, Sourceforge supports Git, so we could, in theory, convert
from svn to git and leave the code at SF.  Does GitHub offer some sort
of "help wanted" or publicity features that make it likely that those
pull requests will just start happening?

I don't understand either you advocate dropping my pobox.com and Gmail
email services.  My original reason for needing/using SpamBayes was
that my inbox was littered with spam and none of the other options I
had tried up to that point were effective.  Now that they are, I see
no reason I should throw them out just so I can keep using SpamBayes.
I have plenty of other things to do with my spare time.

Skip

From amedee at amedee.be  Thu Jan 17 14:21:30 2013
From: amedee at amedee.be (Amedee Van Gasse)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 14:21:30 +0100
Subject: [spambayes-dev] [Spambayes] Outlook 2013
In-Reply-To: <CANc-5Uy89wTthXeNxyfRcakBUObVb7g9R75BAtAkZtyjE6+JcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000001cdf1fc$597bf180$0c73d480$@gmail.com>
	<50F371E8.5040107@cubiclesoft.com>
	<CANc-5UxQpjseC8xLwVMRa6ydoB-+C2U7jFzFG28QYC6tE+boUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50F3E8E5.20205@cubiclesoft.com>
	<CANc-5Uy89wTthXeNxyfRcakBUObVb7g9R75BAtAkZtyjE6+JcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50F7FADA.4070009@amedee.be>

On 01/15/2013 01:23 PM, Skip Montanaro wrote:

> I know about the technical advantages of moving from centralized to
> distributed version control.  That, by itself, won't change anything.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that the suggestion of moving 
to git*HUB* has anything to do with centralized vs distributed version 
control. That wouldn't make any sense because SF has git too.
I think it has everything to do with the fact that SF is intended for 
*project* hosting and GH is for *code* hosting.

If I may give some links:
http://usersinhell.com/why-sourceforge-lost/
http://readwrite.com/2011/06/02/github-has-passed-sourceforge (from 2011!)
http://williamedwardscoder.tumblr.com/post/24944468513/how-github-slew-sourceforge-and-the-rest 
(talks about forking is bad vs forking is good)

> Besides, Sourceforge supports Git, so we could, in theory, convert
> from svn to git and leave the code at SF.  Does GitHub offer some sort
> of "help wanted" or publicity features that make it likely that those
> pull requests will just start happening?

I would suggest keeping the project site on SF (to keep using the 
"publicity features") and moving the code base to GH (to take advantage 
of social coding). Heterogeneity is the new norm. Use the best tool for 
the job.
or in the words of SF itself: "Many people use us together; GitHub for 
collaboration, and SF.net for distribution" 
(http://sourceforge.net/blog/github-collaboration-and-haters/)

Wait a second... no I don't suggest doing that. I suggest that the 
person who first proposed it, takes the initiative. Something something 
about talking and walking...

In fact, code migration to GH is so easy that I have already done it 
myself: https://github.com/amedee/spambayes

The only thing that I need, is to fill in the correct email addresses in 
an authors-transform.txt:


anadelonbrin = anadelonbrin <anadelonbrin at spambayes.org>
anthonybaxter = anthonybaxter <anthonybaxter at spambayes.org>
bkc = bkc <bkc at spambayes.org>
bwarsaw = bwarsaw <bwarsaw at spambayes.org>
gvanrossum = Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org>
gward = gward <gward at spambayes.org>
hooft = hooft <hooft at spambayes.org>
htrd = htrd <htrd at spambayes.org>
jhylton = jhylton <jhylton at spambayes.org>
jvr = jvr <jvr at spambayes.org>
kpitt = kpitt <kpitt at spambayes.org>
mhammond = mhammond <mhammond at spambayes.org>
montanaro = montanaro <montanaro at spambayes.org>
nascheme = nascheme <nascheme at spambayes.org>
(no author) = spambayes-dev <spambayes-dev at python.org>
npickett = npickett <npickett at spambayes.org>
popiel = popiel <popiel at spambayes.org>
richiehindle = richiehindle <richiehindle at spambayes.org>
rubiconx = rubiconx <rubiconx at spambayes.org>
sjoerd = sjoerd <sjoerd at spambayes.org>
tim_one = tim_one <tim_one at spambayes.org>
timstone4 = timstone4 <timstone4 at spambayes.org>
uid26747 = uid26747 <uid26747 at spambayes.org>
xenogeist = xenogeist <xenogeist at spambayes.org>


(Everybody knows Guido, right? That's the only address that I am 200% 
sure about.)
For now I just have added @spambayes.org after each username but don't 
worry, this is trivial to fix afterwards with git filter-branch.
If the 23 other developers should also have a GH account then we might 
see some interesting charts like this: 
https://github.com/amedee/spambayes/graphs/code-frequency
As you can see, most of the work was done before 2005. Then there was a 
big spike of activity early 2007, but since then, nothing much has happened.
Another observation: all work was done in one branch. I'm not used to 
that any more. :)


-- 
Amedee

From richie at entrian.com  Thu Jan 17 15:51:22 2013
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 14:51:22 +0000
Subject: [spambayes-dev] [Spambayes] Outlook 2013
In-Reply-To: <50F7FADA.4070009@amedee.be>
References: <000001cdf1fc$597bf180$0c73d480$@gmail.com>
	<50F371E8.5040107@cubiclesoft.com>
	<CANc-5UxQpjseC8xLwVMRa6ydoB-+C2U7jFzFG28QYC6tE+boUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50F3E8E5.20205@cubiclesoft.com>
	<CANc-5Uy89wTthXeNxyfRcakBUObVb7g9R75BAtAkZtyjE6+JcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<50F7FADA.4070009@amedee.be>
Message-ID: <CAFU0yQhNhP=QSHW9KjnjmoSmFOSwDUZ5D7-_zm3wC+Fdp2Oncg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

Like Skip suggested:

1. I no longer use SpamBayes myself (because of gmail)
2. I don't have time to contribute any more
3. I don't use Outlook, so couldn't help with the majority of issues anyway
4. I'm not a Unix bigot (not that that's relevant).

Amedee:

> richiehindle = Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com>
>

:-)

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com
http://entrian.com/blog
http://twitter.com/richiehindle
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