[SciPy-User] ANN: SciPy 1.0 beta release

Thu Sep 28 21:08:59 EDT 2017

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 6:56 AM, Joe Harrington <jh at physics.ucf.edu> wrote:

> All of this is orthogonal to the original and much more important point:
> We're not telling people HOW to fix their deprecated code.

Eh, we do. The "deprecated features" section of
https://github.com/scipy/scipy/blob/master/doc/release/1.0.0-notes.rst has
details for most items. In case where that becomes impractical like for all
the misc.pilutil functions, the deprecation warnings themselves will say
what to do. Example:
https://github.com/scipy/scipy/blob/master/scipy/misc/pilutil.py#L108

The only exceptions are for things we remove because they're just wrong,
like bytescale:
https://github.com/scipy/scipy/blob/master/scipy/misc/pilutil.py#L32. There
we can't tell the user what to use, because it depends on the application -
but almost certainly bytescale is not the right solution. Hence it's just
removed.

> Perhaps an
> interested student could volunteer to make a page on scipy.org listing
> the deprecations and removals in each version (pulled from the release
> notes).  Then, that person, developers, or other interested users could
> add modern alternatives and the rationale for removal.
>

I'm -1 on a website for this on scipy.org, even if there was a volunteer.
It's much less discoverable than having good warnings in the code, and will
inevitably go out of date.

Ralf

>
> To the minor point about -Wd, is scipy turning off DeprecationWarnings
> by default, or is some environment like ipython doing it?
>
> I see numpy deprecation warnings all over the place, until I fix them.
> They're not turned off by default.  I'm running in straight Python on
> Ubuntu Linux, with numpy and sometimes scipy.  I'm not using ipython.
> This behavior has been true in all versions of Python, numpy, and scipy
> I've used.
>
> So, I think that paragraph could use another look, from the perspective
> of not just the preferred environment of the developer who wrote it.  If
> SciPy turns off DeprecationWarnings and numpy doesn't, does this really
> make sense?  Because numpy doesn't.
>
> If it's an environment doing it, then it should be noted that -Wd is
> needed only in those environments.  Finally, it should be noted that -Wd
> is shorthand for -W default, which is all the Python man page talks
> about.  Searching for -Wd there comes up with nothing.
>
> --jh--
>
> On Thu, 28 Sep 2017 11:21:50 -0400, Warren Weckesser
> <warren.weckesser at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:44 AM, Joe Harrington <jh at physics.ucf.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Ok, I saw the -Wd at the end, but it just requests the default, so how
> > > does this change anything?
> >
> >
> >
> > Here's a fun sentence from the documentation at
> > https://docs.python.org/3.6/library/warnings.html#
> updating-code-for-new-versio>
> > ns-of-python
> > regarding the option -Wd:
> >
> > > This enables default handling for all warnings, including those that
> are
> > ignored by default.
> >
> > Fortunately, the sentences previous to that one explain that when -Wd is
> > used, DeprecationWarnings (usually ignored) are made visible.
> >
> > Warren
> >
> >
> > If it's just an ipython benefit, say that
> > > it's recommended for ipython users.
> > >
> > > Also, remember that for the vast majority of users, they don't install
> a
> > > new version, they suddenly discover that their system now has one,
> > > through some software update.  Think students and casual users, as
> > > opposed to PhD research scientists experienced in software management.
> > >
> > > But, what we really need is more information about what to DO about the
> > > deprecations.  Not, "we pulled the rug out from under you", but "so
> that
> > > we don't pull the rug out from under you, do this".  And, in a
> > > more-obvious place than the release notes, which most users don't ever
> > > see.
> > >
> > > --jh--
> > >
> > > >Um...  This commit has to do with wheels, not deprecations.  Great
> that
> > > >we're flying with wheels up, though. :-)
> > > >
> > > >--jh--
> > > >
> > > >On Thu, 28 Sep 2017 21:48:41 +1300,  Ralf Gommers <
> ralf.gommers at gmail.com
> > > >
> > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Done in https://github.com/scipy/scipy/pull/7947
> > > >
> > > >>> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 1:16 AM, Joe Harrington <
> jh at physics.ucf.edu>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 22:48:35 +1200 Ralf Gommers <
> > > ralf.gommers at gmail.com>
> > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> > I'm excited to be able to announce the availability of the first
> > > beta
> > > >>>> > release of Scipy 1.0.
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> [I won't quote the entire release notes!]
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Awesome news, looooong in the making!
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> The number of deprecations and removals is understandably large.
> > > >>>> I think we need a centralized resource for navigating
> deprecations,
> > > >>>> removals, and changes.  It could be a simple web page, or a more
> > > >>>> involved database.  It should list the change, give or link to the
> > > >>>> rationale, and state the date and package version number.  Most
> > > >>>> importantly, it should give the suggested replacement(s).
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Googling "scipy deprecation" found only this page, plus a bunch of
> > > >>>> release notes and discussions.  The page was last updated on Jan
> 16,
> > > >>>> 2017, and is limited to C-API deprecations:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> https://docs.scipy.org/doc/numpy-dev/reference/c-api.
> > > deprecations.html
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Even once such a document/page/searchable database exists, many
> will
> > > be
> > > >>>> unaware of it, or not know where to find it, so referring to it
> at the
> > > >>>> top of any list of deprecations/removals would be good.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Once it exists, deprecations could be entered before being
> > > implemented,
> > > >>>> and deprecation warnings could refer to an index number in this
> > > >>>> resource, where the user could go for more information on how to
> fix
> > > the
> > > >>>> issue.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thanks for your thoughts Joe! I'm not sure a database is the way
> to go,
> > > >>> but you make a good point. We have to guide users a bit more in
> what
> > > to do
> > > >>> about deprecations. I think clear instructions about upgrading in
> both
> > > the
> > > >>> html docs and release announcements would be useful. I don't think
> > > there's
> > > >>> many users who run ``python -Wd my_code.py`` .(making depreacations
> > > that
> > > >>> affect your code visible) ....
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
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