From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Mon Feb  2 07:50:30 2015
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2015 07:50:30 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [Pyobjc-dev] Moving PyObjC and py2app forward
In-Reply-To: <1438BB91-D148-4FE0-AB03-8692668FFB44@web.de>
References: <519297D1-FA37-4922-816D-6449F12C8882@mac.com>
 <A10E9982-5D92-4F34-8C81-428E2348C279@mac.com>
 <1438BB91-D148-4FE0-AB03-8692668FFB44@web.de>
Message-ID: <96A209AB-6B19-4BCD-B508-579A97BAA00E@mac.com>


> On 29 Jan 2015, at 20:46, Diez B. Roggisch <deets at web.de> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
>> On 29 Jan 2015, at 19:20, Ronald Oussoren <ronaldoussoren at mac.com <mailto:ronaldoussoren at mac.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 10 Dec 2014, at 23:11, Ronald Oussoren <ronaldoussoren at mac.com <mailto:ronaldoussoren at mac.com>> wrote:
>>> I?m not sure how to make serious progress with my current load (both work and privately).  Does anyone have experience with crowd-funding for open-source work? 
>> 
>> I guess not. I?m still interested in idea?s on how to improve development/support for PyObjC.
> 
> This is not from personal experience, but observation of other maintainers e.g. like Christian Tismer & the psyco optimizing Python JIT, and the stackless python implementation.
> 
> For both cases, he scored consulting gigs with companies that heavily used his projects, so that he could work on them and improve them. One was a computer trading company somewhere in the US, the other with the game studio CCP of Eve Online fame.
> 
> So my suggestion would be to seek out companies that use pyobjc, and ask if they have an interest in employing you, on whatever base.
> 
> Sorry that I can?t be of more help - crowd-funding has not worked for me so far, as these things seem to need (in my limited perception, not really deeply surveyed the landscape) a goal that has a certain ?sexyness? (in lieu of a better term) - usually, that means a consumer product, such as a game, or self-driving cool box or some such.

That?s my perception as well.   A site like kickstarter also appears to require you to work on a specific product (a gadget, new software, ?) and not ongoing development of an existing project.  

Ronald

> 
> Diez

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From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Mon Feb  2 08:20:40 2015
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2015 08:20:40 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [Pyobjc-dev] Moving PyObjC and py2app forward
In-Reply-To: <54CA96A2.10509@scottsdalecc.edu>
References: <519297D1-FA37-4922-816D-6449F12C8882@mac.com>
 <A10E9982-5D92-4F34-8C81-428E2348C279@mac.com>
 <54CA96A2.10509@scottsdalecc.edu>
Message-ID: <818DF4D7-E1F6-497A-B3CC-06020AB369C9@mac.com>


> On 29 Jan 2015, at 21:22, Sean Robinson <sean.robinson at scottsdalecc.edu> wrote:
> 
> On 01/29/15 11:20, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>>> On 10 Dec 2014, at 23:11, Ronald Oussoren <ronaldoussoren at mac.com> wrote:
>>> I?m not sure how to make serious progress with my current load (both work and privately).  Does anyone have experience with crowd-funding for open-source work?
>> 
>> I guess not. I?m still interested in idea?s on how to improve development/support for PyObjC.
>> 
> 
> Have you considered applying to the Python Software Foundation for a grant?

Not really, the work that needs to be done is IMHO only partially related to the PSF mission.  Apart from that I think I?d should try to raise some funding from the community before talking to the PSF, at the very least that would show that it wouldn?t be a complete waste of funds.

Before I can do any of that I?d have to get a clearer picture of what I?d like to do, and (more importantly) how to accomplish that.  

Ronald

> 
> 
> -- 
> Sean Robinson
> Physical Sciences Lab Technician
> Physics, Astronomy, Geology
> Scottsdale Community College


From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Mon Feb  2 08:09:44 2015
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2015 08:09:44 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [Pyobjc-dev] Moving PyObjC and py2app forward
In-Reply-To: <CALGmxELNGcGhP5GcRYDhtO_f7w9mZU9tB-UrSg10xog=wfcseQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALGmxELNGcGhP5GcRYDhtO_f7w9mZU9tB-UrSg10xog=wfcseQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D2C6C4F9-5354-4D39-B03F-7D54A24ACAE6@mac.com>


> On 29 Jan 2015, at 21:17, Chris Barker <chris.barker at noaa.gov> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Ronald Oussoren <ronaldoussoren at mac.com <mailto:ronaldoussoren at mac.com>> wrote:
>> I?m not sure how to make serious progress with my current load (both work and privately).  Does anyone have experience with crowd-funding for open-source work? 
> 
> I guess not. I?m still interested in idea?s on how to improve development/support for PyObjC.
> 
> I sure don't have any experience with crown funding. But are you  saying that you could put time into it if you could get paid?

Currently in a limited way, I?d have to take time of from work to put in more time. My initial mail was in a large part triggered by frustration about the fairly large gap between the amount of work that needs to done and the time I have available at moment (and have had for the last year).   

What also doesn?t help is that I?m currently primarily working on updating the PyObjC framework wrappers with support for APIs introduced in OSX 10.9 and 10.10, and that?s pretty boring work. I?m reaching the end of that task although the last few frameworks are the most complicated in this regard.   When that?s done it should be easier to find the motivation to move forward again with real development.

> 
> Maybe kick starter? thought this:
> 
> http://blog.felixbreuer.net/2013/04/24/crowdfunding-for-open-source.html <http://blog.felixbreuer.net/2013/04/24/crowdfunding-for-open-source.html>
> 
> indicates that it doesn't work well for Open source projects.

That?s the impression I got as well. What doesn?t help in that regard is that Python OSX GUI development is a fairly small niche, and I have no idea how large that niche is.

> 
> Are you set up with a consultancy so that people could pay you for a particular bug fix or feature?

Nope.  Although that should be not to hard to do when there?d be a reason to do so (he said without having any experience in doing so). I?m currently full-time employed doing consultancy, and the last couple of years that has been mostly Linux and not OSX work.

Ronald
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From bob at redivi.com  Mon Feb  2 18:36:58 2015
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 09:36:58 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [Pyobjc-dev]  Moving PyObjC and py2app forward
In-Reply-To: <818DF4D7-E1F6-497A-B3CC-06020AB369C9@mac.com>
References: <519297D1-FA37-4922-816D-6449F12C8882@mac.com>
 <A10E9982-5D92-4F34-8C81-428E2348C279@mac.com>
 <54CA96A2.10509@scottsdalecc.edu>
 <818DF4D7-E1F6-497A-B3CC-06020AB369C9@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CACwMPm-ye7mxx31gwwtuEegEJgX-CA9mucr2idSjgxr8J0-XjQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 11:20 PM, Ronald Oussoren <ronaldoussoren at mac.com>
wrote:

>
> > On 29 Jan 2015, at 21:22, Sean Robinson <sean.robinson at scottsdalecc.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> > On 01/29/15 11:20, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
> >>> On 10 Dec 2014, at 23:11, Ronald Oussoren <ronaldoussoren at mac.com>
> wrote:
> >>> I?m not sure how to make serious progress with my current load (both
> work and privately).  Does anyone have experience with crowd-funding for
> open-source work?
> >>
> >> I guess not. I?m still interested in idea?s on how to improve
> development/support for PyObjC.
> >>
> >
> > Have you considered applying to the Python Software Foundation for a
> grant?
>
> Not really, the work that needs to be done is IMHO only partially related
> to the PSF mission.  Apart from that I think I?d should try to raise some
> funding from the community before talking to the PSF, at the very least
> that would show that it wouldn?t be a complete waste of funds.
>
> Before I can do any of that I?d have to get a clearer picture of what I?d
> like to do, and (more importantly) how to accomplish that.
>

Have you tried talking to anyone at Dropbox yet? They appear to still be
using PyObjC in the Mac app, they might have the right incentives.

-bob
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