From ronaldoussoren at mac.com Thu Jul 4 17:08:34 2013 From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 17:08:34 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Towards PyObjC 3.0 Message-ID: <245FA66F-1231-4480-9FE1-956946A214D4@mac.com> Hi, I recently realised that I've been much to silent on the development of PyObjC. I'm making steady progress on a new major release of PyObjC and am getting closer to a beta release of PyObjC 3.0, although progress is too slow to my taste :-) In januari (6 months ago already...) I was at a hackweek @Dropbox where I seriously started work on this new release. During that week I basicly rewrote the way that PyObjC looks for methods, the old way was inherently ugly and slow, the new one is cleaner and faster (although it appears to be not so much faster that its actually noticable...). That rewrite probably wouldn't have happened without hackweek, it required several days of concentrated hacking and that is something I can't do in my regular environment (there's those pesky customers that also want to get work done). Since then I've done further cleanup work and some optimization (first tests indicate that the bridge uses less memory and is faster). I'm finally closing in on a situation where the core bridge is cleaned up and can be reasonably sure that I won't have to make backward incompatible changes in the future. Now up to the really hard work: clean up the documentation and example code. That will probably eat away a lot of nights (with a lot of simple changes in the examples and hard thinking on how to improve the documentation; writing usable documentation is hard). My self-imposed dead-line for a 3.0 release is "before OSX 10.9 is released", that's the easiest way to avoid getting carried away with wrapping all new APIs in OSX 10.9 and delaying the release even further. Currently side-tracked on trying to get a change to super() into Python 3.4, Ronald P.S. A small public service announcement: try to avoid "from Cocoa import *", and use explicit imports (either "import Cocoa; o = Cocoa.NSObject.new()" or "from Cocoa import NSObject"). The current release of PyObjC contains optimizations that make explicit imports faster by doing much less work, and I expect to improve this further in future release. A nice side effect of avoiding '*' imports is that code analysis tools like pyflakes will do a much better jobs on your code. From poalman at gmail.com Tue Jul 9 11:46:58 2013 From: poalman at gmail.com (Paul Wiseman) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 10:46:58 +0100 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other? Message-ID: I'm looking to make a cross platform application, and I'm looking into different languages and options to get an understanding of the strengths and limitations before I put significant effort in a particular direction. One option I'm considering is using python with QT and PySide. Maybe this isn't the best place the ask, but maybe some people will know. Qt looks great from my first impressions but one thing I'm not too sure about is how native it can go, I know the controls are native and will use carbon/cocoa underneath on mac for example. But one thing I'm trying to find out, is if it's possible to add fully native bits to it using cocoa api. For example would it be possible to transition two windows with a flip animation like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY_Y6rpSgsU. Maybe using ctypes and loading a .so file, or using PyObjC or access the api? A lot of the cross platform gui frameworks I've used before just seemed to support the common denominator of features across windows, mac and gtk and often features or concepts just specific to one or two platforms aren't supported - which is understandable. But would anyone know if it would be possible to implement these platform specific bits whilst using PySide, using ctypes / pyobjc etc? (window animations, mac sheets etc.) Thanks! Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kw at codebykevin.com Tue Jul 9 14:56:41 2013 From: kw at codebykevin.com (Kevin Walzer) Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2013 08:56:41 -0400 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51DC0889.5040208@codebykevin.com> On 7/9/13 5:46 AM, Paul Wiseman wrote: > But would anyone know if it would be possible to implement these > platform specific bits whilst using PySide, using ctypes / pyobjc etc? > (window animations, mac sheets etc.) > > This SO page has a few different examples of flipping windows in Cocoa: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2490069/flipping-a-window-in-cocoa I have no idea how easy it is to call Objective-C using a C API like ctypes. Perhaps Ronald can weigh in on that. I'm not that familiar with PySide, but Qt (and PyQt) can convert a Mac window to a sheet just by applying a window flag. See http://doc.qt.digia.com/qq/qq18-macfeatures.html for particulars. --Kevin -- Kevin Walzer Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin http://www.codebykevin.com http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com From ronaldoussoren at mac.com Tue Jul 9 15:08:26 2013 From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 15:08:26 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other? In-Reply-To: <51DC0889.5040208@codebykevin.com> References: <51DC0889.5040208@codebykevin.com> Message-ID: <33ED886F-C3F2-4549-8F5B-EA2368B9E572@mac.com> On 9 Jul, 2013, at 14:56, Kevin Walzer wrote: > On 7/9/13 5:46 AM, Paul Wiseman wrote: > >> But would anyone know if it would be possible to implement these >> platform specific bits whilst using PySide, using ctypes / pyobjc etc? >> (window animations, mac sheets etc.) >> >> > > This SO page has a few different examples of flipping windows in Cocoa: > > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2490069/flipping-a-window-in-cocoa > > I have no idea how easy it is to call Objective-C using a C API like ctypes. Perhaps Ronald can weigh in on that. Shouldn't be that hard, but I'd use PyObjC for that :-) What I don't know is how much Qt would like you tweaking the window state like this, and if it even has methods to retrieve the native widgets that are backing the Qt ones (that is, can you even get the NSWindow* for a Qt window object?). Ronald From ronaldoussoren at mac.com Tue Jul 9 15:19:13 2013 From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 15:19:13 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other? In-Reply-To: References: <51DC0889.5040208@codebykevin.com> <33ED886F-C3F2-4549-8F5B-EA2368B9E572@mac.com> Message-ID: <6559B819-0314-47CB-8EDB-A01092BE6DAC@mac.com> On 9 Jul, 2013, at 15:15, Paul Wiseman wrote: > On 9 July 2013 14:08, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > > On 9 Jul, 2013, at 14:56, Kevin Walzer wrote: > > > On 7/9/13 5:46 AM, Paul Wiseman wrote: > > > >> But would anyone know if it would be possible to implement these > >> platform specific bits whilst using PySide, using ctypes / pyobjc etc? > >> (window animations, mac sheets etc.) > >> > >> > > > > This SO page has a few different examples of flipping windows in Cocoa: > > > > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2490069/flipping-a-window-in-cocoa > > > > I have no idea how easy it is to call Objective-C using a C API like ctypes. Perhaps Ronald can weigh in on that. > > Shouldn't be that hard, but I'd use PyObjC for that :-) > > What I don't know is how much Qt would like you tweaking the window state like this, and if it even has methods to retrieve the native widgets that are backing the Qt ones (that is, can you even get the NSWindow* for a Qt window object?). > > > It looks like you can get the native window handle which is promising: https://deptinfo-ensip.univ-poitiers.fr/ENS/pyside-docs/PySide/QtGui/QWidget.html#PySide.QtGui.PySide.QtGui.QWidget.winId > > Is this handle enough to be able to mess with the window with PyObjC? Converting this to PyObjC object with ``objc.objc_object(c_void_p=qwidget.winId())`` should then give you a Cocoa object (assuming Qt uses Cocoa by now and isn't stuck in Carbon land). Ronald From poalman at gmail.com Tue Jul 9 15:15:00 2013 From: poalman at gmail.com (Paul Wiseman) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 14:15:00 +0100 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other? In-Reply-To: <33ED886F-C3F2-4549-8F5B-EA2368B9E572@mac.com> References: <51DC0889.5040208@codebykevin.com> <33ED886F-C3F2-4549-8F5B-EA2368B9E572@mac.com> Message-ID: On 9 July 2013 14:08, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > > On 9 Jul, 2013, at 14:56, Kevin Walzer wrote: > > > On 7/9/13 5:46 AM, Paul Wiseman wrote: > > > >> But would anyone know if it would be possible to implement these > >> platform specific bits whilst using PySide, using ctypes / pyobjc etc? > >> (window animations, mac sheets etc.) > >> > >> > > > > This SO page has a few different examples of flipping windows in Cocoa: > > > > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2490069/flipping-a-window-in-cocoa > > > > I have no idea how easy it is to call Objective-C using a C API like > ctypes. Perhaps Ronald can weigh in on that. > > Shouldn't be that hard, but I'd use PyObjC for that :-) > > What I don't know is how much Qt would like you tweaking the window state > like this, and if it even has methods to retrieve the native widgets that > are backing the Qt ones (that is, can you even get the NSWindow* for a Qt > window object?). > > It looks like you can get the native window handle which is promising: https://deptinfo-ensip.univ-poitiers.fr/ENS/pyside-docs/PySide/QtGui/QWidget.html#PySide.QtGui.PySide.QtGui.QWidget.winId Is this handle enough to be able to mess with the window with PyObjC? > Ronald > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kw at codebykevin.com Tue Jul 9 15:50:58 2013 From: kw at codebykevin.com (Kevin Walzer) Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2013 09:50:58 -0400 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other? In-Reply-To: References: <51DC0889.5040208@codebykevin.com> <33ED886F-C3F2-4549-8F5B-EA2368B9E572@mac.com> Message-ID: <51DC1542.5010405@codebykevin.com> On 7/9/13 9:15 AM, Paul Wiseman wrote: > It looks like you can get the native window handle which is promising: > https://deptinfo-ensip.univ-poitiers.fr/ENS/pyside-docs/PySide/QtGui/QWidget.html#PySide.QtGui.PySide.QtGui.QWidget.winId Good to see. By the way, is PySide still being maintained after Digia took over Qt? My impression is that it was now an orphan. --Kevin -- Kevin Walzer Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin http://www.codebykevin.com http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com From poalman at gmail.com Tue Jul 9 16:34:51 2013 From: poalman at gmail.com (Paul Wiseman) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 15:34:51 +0100 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other? In-Reply-To: <51DC1542.5010405@codebykevin.com> References: <51DC0889.5040208@codebykevin.com> <33ED886F-C3F2-4549-8F5B-EA2368B9E572@mac.com> <51DC1542.5010405@codebykevin.com> Message-ID: On 9 July 2013 14:50, Kevin Walzer wrote: > On 7/9/13 9:15 AM, Paul Wiseman wrote: > >> It looks like you can get the native window handle which is promising: >> https://deptinfo-ensip.univ-**poitiers.fr/ENS/pyside-docs/** >> PySide/QtGui/QWidget.html#**PySide.QtGui.PySide.QtGui.**QWidget.winId >> > > Good to see. > > By the way, is PySide still being maintained after Digia took over Qt? My > impression is that it was now an orphan. > > Nope, they had a release today in fact (v1.2.0) so it's very much still active. I've only just started looking into it so I'm not sure on the full story - so this is possibly wrong or inaccurate but I believe Nokia sold Qt to Digia, then they had licencing issues trying to use pyQt and couldn't come to an agreement with riverbank computing, so Nokia made their own bindings (PySide) and open sourced them. So there's now two sets of python bindings and from what I can tell PySide seems to release updates for new features of Qt before pyQt as well. I think PySide is purely a community project now, I don't think Nokia has much to do with it (again I could be wrong!) but still seems active. > > --Kevin > > -- > Kevin Walzer > Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin > http://www.codebykevin.com > http://www.wtmobilesoftware.**com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kw at codebykevin.com Tue Jul 9 16:41:36 2013 From: kw at codebykevin.com (Kevin Walzer) Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2013 10:41:36 -0400 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other? In-Reply-To: References: <51DC0889.5040208@codebykevin.com> <33ED886F-C3F2-4549-8F5B-EA2368B9E572@mac.com> <51DC1542.5010405@codebykevin.com> Message-ID: <51DC2120.5050403@codebykevin.com> On 7/9/13 10:34 AM, Paul Wiseman wrote: > Nope, they had a release today in fact (v1.2.0) so it's very much still > active. But it supports Qt 4.8. Digia has just released Qt 5.1. Qt5 has some huge differences from 4.x, among them it's moving heavily into using QtQuick (a declarative markup spec) to draw UI's rather than native widgets. > > I've only just started looking into it so I'm not sure on the full story > - so this is possibly wrong or inaccurate but I believe Nokia sold Qt to > Digia, then they had licencing issues trying to use pyQt and couldn't > come to an agreement with riverbank computing, so Nokia made their own > bindings (PySide) and open sourced them. So there's now two sets of > python bindings and from what I can tell PySide seems to release updates > for new features of Qt before pyQt as well. I think PySide is purely a > community project now, I don't think Nokia has much to do with it (again > I could be wrong!) but still seems active. Phil Thompson earns his living dual-licensing PyQt (commercial and GPL), just as TrollTech did. Moving to LGPL would probably hurt his revenue. --Kevin -- Kevin Walzer Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin http://www.codebykevin.com http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com From poalman at gmail.com Tue Jul 9 16:46:57 2013 From: poalman at gmail.com (Paul Wiseman) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 15:46:57 +0100 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other? In-Reply-To: <51DC2120.5050403@codebykevin.com> References: <51DC0889.5040208@codebykevin.com> <33ED886F-C3F2-4549-8F5B-EA2368B9E572@mac.com> <51DC1542.5010405@codebykevin.com> <51DC2120.5050403@codebykevin.com> Message-ID: On 9 July 2013 15:41, Kevin Walzer wrote: > On 7/9/13 10:34 AM, Paul Wiseman wrote: > >> Nope, they had a release today in fact (v1.2.0) so it's very much still >> active. >> > > But it supports Qt 4.8. Digia has just released Qt 5.1. Qt5 has some huge > differences from 4.x, among them it's moving heavily into using QtQuick (a > declarative markup spec) to draw UI's rather than native widgets. > > The bindings are always going to be a bit behind Qt, it's on their roadmap ( http://qt-project.org/wiki/PySide_Roadmap) > >> I've only just started looking into it so I'm not sure on the full story >> - so this is possibly wrong or inaccurate but I believe Nokia sold Qt to >> Digia, then they had licencing issues trying to use pyQt and couldn't >> come to an agreement with riverbank computing, so Nokia made their own >> bindings (PySide) and open sourced them. So there's now two sets of >> python bindings and from what I can tell PySide seems to release updates >> for new features of Qt before pyQt as well. I think PySide is purely a >> community project now, I don't think Nokia has much to do with it (again >> I could be wrong!) but still seems active. >> > > Phil Thompson earns his living dual-licensing PyQt (commercial and GPL), > just as TrollTech did. Moving to LGPL would probably hurt his revenue. > > > --Kevin > > > -- > Kevin Walzer > Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin > http://www.codebykevin.com > http://www.wtmobilesoftware.**com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.barker at noaa.gov Tue Jul 9 18:12:37 2013 From: chris.barker at noaa.gov (Chris Barker - NOAA Federal) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 09:12:37 -0700 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Fwd: Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: oops, sent only to Paul the first time.... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Chris Barker - NOAA Federal Paul, > Qt looks great from my first impressions but one thing I'm not too sure > about is how native it can go, I know the controls are native and will use > carbon/cocoa underneath on mac for example. Personally I've used wxPython for years -- it would be a good option as well (and does use Cocoa under the hood in recent versions, so injecting some custom Ma-only code in there is quite doable. A lot of folks like QT a lot, it may be a good way to go -- honestly, I've stuck with wx mostly due to inertia -- never really considering alternatives. However, there is a key design difference -- wx wraps the native widgets, and QT, for the most part, re-implements them with low-level primitives. So while a QT Window is probably a Cocoa Window, the individual buttons, etc are not native. I don't know to what extent you can override this, but I do know that most of the QT apps I've seen on the Mac are not very native: not even using the native file open dialogs and the like. I'd be shocked if you couldn't do better with some care, but QT does not appear to do a very good job of native out of the box. wxPython requires a bit of care to look and feel truly native as well, but it gets closer by default. IIUC, PySide is essentially an alternative to PyQT with a different (more liberal) licence. It is certainly under active development. For example, Enthought, Inc is relying on it for a lot of their stuff, and has hired Robin Dunn (ironically the wxPython founder/developer) to work on it. There was a sprint at last weeks' SciPy conference as well. If you do want to cal native code, PYObjC is likely the easiest way, but if that doesn't look right to you, Cython may be worth a shot -- it's a good way to call C and C++ APIs. HTH, -Chris -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer Emergency Response Division NOAA/NOS/OR&R (206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception Chris.Barker at noaa.gov -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer Emergency Response Division NOAA/NOS/OR&R (206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception Chris.Barker at noaa.gov From janssen at parc.com Tue Jul 9 21:28:28 2013 From: janssen at parc.com (Bill Janssen) Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2013 12:28:28 -0700 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35012.1373398108@parc.com> Paul Wiseman wrote: > I'm looking to make a cross platform application, and I'm looking into > different languages and options to get an understanding of the strengths > and limitations before I put significant effort in a particular direction. I've recently been impressed with Kivy. Rather than target a toolkit like Qt or wxWidgets, it targets OpenGL, and builds its own set of widgets on top of that. Very cross-platform. Bill From larry.meyn at nasa.gov Tue Jul 9 22:31:25 2013 From: larry.meyn at nasa.gov (Meyn, Larry A. (ARC-AV)) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 15:31:25 -0500 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other? In-Reply-To: <35012.1373398108@parc.com> References: <35012.1373398108@parc.com> Message-ID: <1DD898AB-0219-4BE8-90D5-A5A2552451EC@nasa.gov> FYI: One cross-platform gotcha with kivy is its LGPL license, it can be an issue when developing for iOS due to the iOS ban on linking to dynamic libraries. Larry On Jul 9, 2013, at 12:28 PM, Bill Janssen wrote: > Paul Wiseman wrote: > >> I'm looking to make a cross platform application, and I'm looking into >> different languages and options to get an understanding of the strengths >> and limitations before I put significant effort in a particular direction. > > I've recently been impressed with Kivy. Rather than target a toolkit > like Qt or wxWidgets, it targets OpenGL, and builds its own set of > widgets on top of that. Very cross-platform. > > Bill > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG From chris.barker at noaa.gov Tue Jul 9 23:44:19 2013 From: chris.barker at noaa.gov (Chris Barker - NOAA Federal) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 14:44:19 -0700 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other? In-Reply-To: <1DD898AB-0219-4BE8-90D5-A5A2552451EC@nasa.gov> References: <35012.1373398108@parc.com> <1DD898AB-0219-4BE8-90D5-A5A2552451EC@nasa.gov> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Meyn, Larry A. (ARC-AV) wrote: > FYI: One cross-platform gotcha with kivy is its LGPL license, it can be an issue when developing for iOS due to the iOS ban on linking to dynamic libraries. IIUC: (IANAL): 1) the kivy folks have figure out how to legally deploy to iOS 2) dynamic vs. static linking makes no difference to the LGPL. But yes, Apple does have its policies, and they can be a pain if you want to use something other than Cocoa to deploy to iOS. My understanding was teh bigger issue was that they don't want interpreters in iOS apps... The interweb tells me that there is a (maybe beta) version of QT for iOS, but pySide is going to be an issue with iOS ban on interpreters. FWIW, I _think_ the Kivy uses Cython to build a compiled version of your program that links (statically) to the python run time, so is not technically running interpreted code. -Chris -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer Emergency Response Division NOAA/NOS/OR&R (206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception Chris.Barker at noaa.gov From larry.meyn at nasa.gov Wed Jul 10 01:04:32 2013 From: larry.meyn at nasa.gov (Meyn, Larry A. (ARC-AV)) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 18:04:32 -0500 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other? In-Reply-To: References: <35012.1373398108@parc.com> <1DD898AB-0219-4BE8-90D5-A5A2552451EC@nasa.gov> Message-ID: <6345B686-79D4-4563-A500-011FC9704A18@nasa.gov> Apple's iOS policies are not always clear cut. Pythonista (http://omz-software.com/pythonista/) is a surprisingly capable python interpreter for iOS that seems to be able to push the boundaries of Apple's policies. You can even share code easily through gist URLs. -Larry On Jul 9, 2013, at 2:44 PM, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal wrote: > On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Meyn, Larry A. (ARC-AV) > wrote: >> FYI: One cross-platform gotcha with kivy is its LGPL license, it can be an issue when developing for iOS due to the iOS ban on linking to dynamic libraries. > > IIUC: (IANAL): > > 1) the kivy folks have figure out how to legally deploy to iOS > 2) dynamic vs. static linking makes no difference to the LGPL. > > But yes, Apple does have its policies, and they can be a pain if you > want to use something other than Cocoa to deploy to iOS. My > understanding was teh bigger issue was that they don't want > interpreters in iOS apps... > > The interweb tells me that there is a (maybe beta) version of QT for > iOS, but pySide is going to be an issue with iOS ban on interpreters. > > FWIW, I _think_ the Kivy uses Cython to build a compiled version of > your program that links (statically) to the python run time, so is not > technically running interpreted code. > > -Chris > > > > > > > > > -- > > Christopher Barker, Ph.D. > Oceanographer > > Emergency Response Division > NOAA/NOS/OR&R (206) 526-6959 voice > 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax > Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception > > Chris.Barker at noaa.gov > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG From poalman at gmail.com Wed Jul 10 11:35:20 2013 From: poalman at gmail.com (Paul Wiseman) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 10:35:20 +0100 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Fwd: Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 9 July 2013 17:12, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal wrote: > oops, sent only to Paul the first time.... > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Chris Barker - NOAA Federal > > Paul, > > > Qt looks great from my first impressions but one thing I'm not too sure > > about is how native it can go, I know the controls are native and will > use > > carbon/cocoa underneath on mac for example. > > Personally I've used wxPython for years -- it would be a good option > as well (and does use Cocoa under the hood in recent versions, so > injecting some custom Ma-only code in there is quite doable. > > A lot of folks like QT a lot, it may be a good way to go -- honestly, > I've stuck with wx mostly due to inertia -- never really considering > alternatives. > > I've used wxpython a lot in the past, and maintain some code that uses it and I do like it, there are a couple of bits that have put me off though. There doesn't seem to be an obvious way to implement an MVC type pattern with it. I haven't used Qt much at all yet but QML looks extremely interesting and pretty powerful. This signal and slots in qt reminds me a lot of the outlet actions in the iOS world as well which helps a lot at keeping everything de-coupled. I've found an awful lot of bugs with wx over the time I've been using it as well which has put me off somewhat, but that's probably true for a lot of systems/frameworks of that size that you get very familiar with and use a lot. > However, there is a key design difference -- wx wraps the native > widgets, and QT, for the most part, re-implements them with low-level > primitives. So while a QT Window is probably a Cocoa Window, the > individual buttons, etc are not native. I don't know to what extent > you can override this, but I do know that most of the QT apps I've > seen on the Mac are not very native: not even using the native file > open dialogs and the like. I'd be shocked if you couldn't do better > with some care, but QT does not appear to do a very good job of native > out of the box. > Do you know any Qt apps for mac? It would be quite useful to take a look at a few to help weigh up my options. > > wxPython requires a bit of care to look and feel truly native as well, > but it gets closer by default. > > IIUC, PySide is essentially an alternative to PyQT with a different > (more liberal) licence. It is certainly under active development. For > example, Enthought, Inc is relying on it for a lot of their stuff, and > has hired Robin Dunn (ironically the wxPython founder/developer) to > work on it. There was a sprint at last weeks' SciPy conference as > well. > > If you do want to cal native code, PYObjC is likely the easiest way, > but if that doesn't look right to you, Cython may be worth a shot -- > it's a good way to call C and C++ APIs. > > HTH, > -Chris > > -- > > Christopher Barker, Ph.D. > Oceanographer > > Emergency Response Division > NOAA/NOS/OR&R (206) 526-6959 voice > 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax > Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception > > Chris.Barker at noaa.gov > > > -- > > Christopher Barker, Ph.D. > Oceanographer > > Emergency Response Division > NOAA/NOS/OR&R (206) 526-6959 voice > 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax > Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception > > Chris.Barker at noaa.gov > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From micko at wagsoft.com Wed Jul 10 13:52:03 2013 From: micko at wagsoft.com (Michael O'Donnell) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 13:52:03 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Kivy python GUI Message-ID: Saw a link to Kivy, which seems to be a newish GUI for python, works on most platforms, including iOS and Android. Anyone played around with it? Seems to offer a basic canvas with draw ops. On a quick look, couldn't see any more complex widgets, except for buttons, but they may be there (the documentation is not that straight forward). Mick (looking for a cross-platform pythin GUI) On 10 July 2013 11:35, Paul Wiseman wrote: > On 9 July 2013 17:12, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal > wrote: >> >> oops, sent only to Paul the first time.... >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Chris Barker - NOAA Federal >> >> Paul, >> >> > Qt looks great from my first impressions but one thing I'm not too sure >> > about is how native it can go, I know the controls are native and will >> > use >> > carbon/cocoa underneath on mac for example. >> >> Personally I've used wxPython for years -- it would be a good option >> as well (and does use Cocoa under the hood in recent versions, so >> injecting some custom Ma-only code in there is quite doable. >> >> A lot of folks like QT a lot, it may be a good way to go -- honestly, >> I've stuck with wx mostly due to inertia -- never really considering >> alternatives. >> > > I've used wxpython a lot in the past, and maintain some code that uses it > and I do like it, there are a couple of bits that have put me off though. > There doesn't seem to be an obvious way to implement an MVC type pattern > with it. I haven't used Qt much at all yet but QML looks extremely > interesting and pretty powerful. This signal and slots in qt reminds me a > lot of the outlet actions in the iOS world as well which helps a lot at > keeping everything de-coupled. I've found an awful lot of bugs with wx over > the time I've been using it as well which has put me off somewhat, but > that's probably true for a lot of systems/frameworks of that size that you > get very familiar with and use a lot. > >> >> However, there is a key design difference -- wx wraps the native >> widgets, and QT, for the most part, re-implements them with low-level >> primitives. So while a QT Window is probably a Cocoa Window, the >> individual buttons, etc are not native. I don't know to what extent >> you can override this, but I do know that most of the QT apps I've >> seen on the Mac are not very native: not even using the native file >> open dialogs and the like. I'd be shocked if you couldn't do better >> with some care, but QT does not appear to do a very good job of native >> out of the box. > > > Do you know any Qt apps for mac? It would be quite useful to take a look at > a few to help weigh up my options. > >> >> >> wxPython requires a bit of care to look and feel truly native as well, >> but it gets closer by default. >> >> IIUC, PySide is essentially an alternative to PyQT with a different >> (more liberal) licence. It is certainly under active development. For >> example, Enthought, Inc is relying on it for a lot of their stuff, and >> has hired Robin Dunn (ironically the wxPython founder/developer) to >> work on it. There was a sprint at last weeks' SciPy conference as >> well. >> >> If you do want to cal native code, PYObjC is likely the easiest way, >> but if that doesn't look right to you, Cython may be worth a shot -- >> it's a good way to call C and C++ APIs. >> >> HTH, >> -Chris >> >> -- >> >> Christopher Barker, Ph.D. >> Oceanographer >> >> Emergency Response Division >> NOAA/NOS/OR&R (206) 526-6959 voice >> 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax >> Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception >> >> Chris.Barker at noaa.gov >> >> >> -- >> >> Christopher Barker, Ph.D. >> Oceanographer >> >> Emergency Response Division >> NOAA/NOS/OR&R (206) 526-6959 voice >> 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax >> Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception >> >> Chris.Barker at noaa.gov >> _______________________________________________ >> Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig >> unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG > > > _______________________________________________________ > Unlimited Disk, Data Transfer, PHP/MySQL Domain Hosting > http://www.doteasy.com From kw at codebykevin.com Wed Jul 10 16:55:47 2013 From: kw at codebykevin.com (Kevin Walzer) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 10:55:47 -0400 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Fwd: Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51DD75F3.7050707@codebykevin.com> On 7/10/13 5:35 AM, Paul Wiseman wrote: > Do you know any Qt apps for mac? It would be quite useful to take a look > at a few to help weigh up my options. There are lots of Qt apps with Mac ports; most are crappy because they make little effort to get the Mac UI details right. VirtualBox and Parallels are two Qt apps that do a better job with the UI. --Kevin -- Kevin Walzer Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin http://www.codebykevin.com http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com From janssen at parc.com Wed Jul 10 17:01:54 2013 From: janssen at parc.com (Bill Janssen) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 08:01:54 -0700 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Kivy python GUI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51876.1373468514@parc.com> Michael O'Donnell wrote: > Saw a link to Kivy, which seems to be a newish GUI for > python, works on most platforms, including iOS and Android. > > Anyone played around with it? I had to upgrade my Mac finally from Leopard to Snow Leopard to get the level of OpenGL support it needs. > Seems to offer a basic canvas with draw ops. On a quick > look, couldn't see any more complex widgets, except > for buttons, but they may be there (the documentation > is not that straight forward). http://kivy.org/docs/guide/widgets.html A fairly complete modern widget set. > Mick (looking for a cross-platform pythin GUI) Aren't we all, Mick? Bill > > > On 10 July 2013 11:35, Paul Wiseman wrote: > > On 9 July 2013 17:12, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal > > wrote: > >> > >> oops, sent only to Paul the first time.... > >> > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >> From: Chris Barker - NOAA Federal > >> > >> Paul, > >> > >> > Qt looks great from my first impressions but one thing I'm not too sure > >> > about is how native it can go, I know the controls are native and will > >> > use > >> > carbon/cocoa underneath on mac for example. > >> > >> Personally I've used wxPython for years -- it would be a good option > >> as well (and does use Cocoa under the hood in recent versions, so > >> injecting some custom Ma-only code in there is quite doable. > >> > >> A lot of folks like QT a lot, it may be a good way to go -- honestly, > >> I've stuck with wx mostly due to inertia -- never really considering > >> alternatives. > >> > > > > I've used wxpython a lot in the past, and maintain some code that uses it > > and I do like it, there are a couple of bits that have put me off though. > > There doesn't seem to be an obvious way to implement an MVC type pattern > > with it. I haven't used Qt much at all yet but QML looks extremely > > interesting and pretty powerful. This signal and slots in qt reminds me a > > lot of the outlet actions in the iOS world as well which helps a lot at > > keeping everything de-coupled. I've found an awful lot of bugs with wx over > > the time I've been using it as well which has put me off somewhat, but > > that's probably true for a lot of systems/frameworks of that size that you > > get very familiar with and use a lot. > > > >> > >> However, there is a key design difference -- wx wraps the native > >> widgets, and QT, for the most part, re-implements them with low-level > >> primitives. So while a QT Window is probably a Cocoa Window, the > >> individual buttons, etc are not native. I don't know to what extent > >> you can override this, but I do know that most of the QT apps I've > >> seen on the Mac are not very native: not even using the native file > >> open dialogs and the like. I'd be shocked if you couldn't do better > >> with some care, but QT does not appear to do a very good job of native > >> out of the box. > > > > > > Do you know any Qt apps for mac? It would be quite useful to take a look at > > a few to help weigh up my options. > > > >> > >> > >> wxPython requires a bit of care to look and feel truly native as well, > >> but it gets closer by default. > >> > >> IIUC, PySide is essentially an alternative to PyQT with a different > >> (more liberal) licence. It is certainly under active development. For > >> example, Enthought, Inc is relying on it for a lot of their stuff, and > >> has hired Robin Dunn (ironically the wxPython founder/developer) to > >> work on it. There was a sprint at last weeks' SciPy conference as > >> well. > >> > >> If you do want to cal native code, PYObjC is likely the easiest way, > >> but if that doesn't look right to you, Cython may be worth a shot -- > >> it's a good way to call C and C++ APIs. > >> > >> HTH, > >> -Chris > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Christopher Barker, Ph.D. > >> Oceanographer > >> > >> Emergency Response Division > >> NOAA/NOS/OR&R (206) 526-6959 voice > >> 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax > >> Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception > >> > >> Chris.Barker at noaa.gov > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Christopher Barker, Ph.D. > >> Oceanographer > >> > >> Emergency Response Division > >> NOAA/NOS/OR&R (206) 526-6959 voice > >> 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax > >> Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception > >> > >> Chris.Barker at noaa.gov > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG at python.org > >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > >> unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > > unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > > Unlimited Disk, Data Transfer, PHP/MySQL Domain Hosting > > http://www.doteasy.com > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG From chris.barker at noaa.gov Wed Jul 10 17:57:13 2013 From: chris.barker at noaa.gov (Chris Barker - NOAA Federal) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 08:57:13 -0700 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Fwd: Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 2:35 AM, Paul Wiseman wrote: > I've used wxpython a lot in the past, and maintain some code that uses it > and I do like it, there are a couple of bits that have put me off though. > There doesn't seem to be an obvious way to implement an MVC type pattern > with it. I" ve always felt that: 1) slavishly following MVC is pretty pointless 2) to the extent you do follow it, it's very application-specific, so I"ve never quite understood what an out-of-the-box MVC framework would look like. 3) You can certainly do it with wx. > I haven't used Qt much at all yet but QML looks extremely > interesting and pretty powerful. there is the XRC format, but when looking at it, it looks like it jsut makes things more complicated -- decoupling strictly GUI code and belongs-with-the-GUI code seems pointless to me. And I really like code-generated GUI layout. I suspect that that approach makes much more sense with C++ than Python. > This signal and slots in qt reminds me a > lot of the outlet actions in the iOS world as well which helps a lot at > keeping everything de-coupled. I haven't used signals and slots, but I agree that wx events are bit stifling. A number of folks recommend pubsub for a more de-coupled approach. > I've found an awful lot of bugs with wx over > the time I've been using it as well which has put me off somewhat, but > that's probably true for a lot of systems/frameworks of that size that you > get very familiar with and use a lot. Well, wx definately doesn't get as much attention on the Mac -- I've seen more issues there. Maybe QT gets more love -- what with KDE and all, it probably has a significantly larger user/developer base. -CHB -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer Emergency Response Division NOAA/NOS/OR&R (206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception Chris.Barker at noaa.gov From chris.barker at noaa.gov Wed Jul 10 17:50:29 2013 From: chris.barker at noaa.gov (Chris Barker - NOAA Federal) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 08:50:29 -0700 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Fwd: Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other? In-Reply-To: <51DD75F3.7050707@codebykevin.com> References: <51DD75F3.7050707@codebykevin.com> Message-ID: >> Do you know any Qt apps for mac? > > There are lots of Qt apps with Mac ports; most are crappy because they make > little effort to get the Mac UI details right. I think QGIS falls into that camp... http://www.qgis.org/ > VirtualBox and Parallels are > two Qt apps that do a better job with the UI. If done right, I suppose you shouldn't know it's a QT app. So I may have bias from that. -Chris -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer Emergency Response Division NOAA/NOS/OR&R (206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception Chris.Barker at noaa.gov From charlie.clark at clark-consulting.eu Thu Jul 11 21:11:06 2013 From: charlie.clark at clark-consulting.eu (Charlie Clark) Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 21:11:06 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Fwd: Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Am 10.07.2013, 11:35 Uhr, schrieb Paul Wiseman : > Do you know any Qt apps for mac? It would be quite useful to take a look > at > a few to help weigh up my options. Adobe Photoshop used to be touted as a QT app - I think QT is anything big that is multi-platform. But, please don't take my word for it. Charlie -- Charlie Clark Managing Director Clark Consulting & Research German Office Kronenstr. 27a D?sseldorf D- 40217 Tel: +49-211-600-3657 Mobile: +49-178-782-6226 From python at samueljohn.de Fri Jul 12 19:33:15 2013 From: python at samueljohn.de (Samuel John) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 19:33:15 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D254F03-13FC-4ED0-BB4A-3FD3DA90CE60@samueljohn.de> On 11.07.2013, at 21:11, Charlie Clark wrote: > Do you know any Qt apps for mac? It would be quite useful to take a look at > a few to help weigh up my options. The citation manager http://www.mendeley.com is (the Application) is written in Qt. bests, Samuel From nicholas.cole at gmail.com Tue Jul 30 15:09:26 2013 From: nicholas.cole at gmail.com (Nicholas Cole) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:09:26 +0100 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problem installing pyobjc Message-ID: Dear List, I am having trouble installing pyobjc. I've tried three things: # python --version Python 2.7.3rc1 1. # easy_install --upgrade pyobjc Searching for pyobjc Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/pyobjc/ Best match: pyobjc 2.5.1 Processing pyobjc-2.5.1-py2.7.egg pyobjc 2.5.1 is already the active version in easy-install.pth Using /Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/pyobjc-2.5.1-py2.7.egg Processing dependencies for pyobjc Searching for pyobjc-framework-Social==2.5.1 Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/pyobjc-framework-Social/ Best match: pyobjc-framework-Social 2.5.1 Downloading https://pypi.python.org/packages/source/p/pyobjc-framework-Social/pyobjc-framework-Social-2.5.1.tar.gz#md5=1aadaa6d45cfced5d9f243b7d153a2eb Processing pyobjc-framework-Social-2.5.1.tar.gz Running pyobjc-framework-Social-2.5.1/setup.py -q bdist_egg --dist-dir /tmp/easy_install-8vFDCw/pyobjc-framework-Social-2.5.1/egg-dist-tmp-XU0icN error: Installed distribution pyobjc-core 2.3.2a0 conflicts with requirement pyobjc-core>=2.5.1 2. I've tried updating the core first: # easy_install --upgrade pyobjc-core Searching for pyobjc-core Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/pyobjc-core/ Best match: pyobjc-core 2.5.1 Downloading https://pypi.python.org/packages/source/p/pyobjc-core/pyobjc-core-2.5.1.tar.gz#md5=931c6cfb040df0d7e26c0898886380cf Processing pyobjc-core-2.5.1.tar.gz Running pyobjc-core-2.5.1/setup.py -q bdist_egg --dist-dir /tmp/easy_install-ySjK__/pyobjc-core-2.5.1/egg-dist-tmp-OSgoci warning: no directories found matching 'Scripts' warning: no directories found matching 'setup-lib' warning: no directories found matching 'source-deps' warning: no previously-included files matching '.DS_Store' found anywhere in distribution warning: no previously-included files matching '*.pyc' found anywhere in distribution warning: no previously-included files matching '*.so' found anywhere in distribution error: Setup script exited with error: No such file or directory 3. So then I tried installing pyobjc-core manually: # python setup.py install Traceback (most recent call last): File "setup.py", line 32, in import distribute_setup ImportError: No module named distribute_setup bash-3.2# Any suggestions? Best wishes, Nicholas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ronaldoussoren at mac.com Tue Jul 30 15:38:21 2013 From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 15:38:21 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problem installing pyobjc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <225C0022-7F48-4645-8894-978E3086D046@mac.com> On 30 Jul, 2013, at 15:09, Nicholas Cole wrote: > Dear List, > > I am having trouble installing pyobjc. I've tried three things: > > # python --version > Python 2.7.3rc1 Not that it is related to your problem, but why do you use an old prerelease version of python? The current release is 2.7.5. > > 1. # easy_install --upgrade pyobjc > Searching for pyobjc > Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/pyobjc/ > Best match: pyobjc 2.5.1 > Processing pyobjc-2.5.1-py2.7.egg > pyobjc 2.5.1 is already the active version in easy-install.pth > > Using /Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/pyobjc-2.5.1-py2.7.egg > Processing dependencies for pyobjc > Searching for pyobjc-framework-Social==2.5.1 > Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/pyobjc-framework-Social/ > Best match: pyobjc-framework-Social 2.5.1 > Downloading https://pypi.python.org/packages/source/p/pyobjc-framework-Social/pyobjc-framework-Social-2.5.1.tar.gz#md5=1aadaa6d45cfced5d9f243b7d153a2eb > Processing pyobjc-framework-Social-2.5.1.tar.gz > Running pyobjc-framework-Social-2.5.1/setup.py -q bdist_egg --dist-dir /tmp/easy_install-8vFDCw/pyobjc-framework-Social-2.5.1/egg-dist-tmp-XU0icN > error: Installed distribution pyobjc-core 2.3.2a0 conflicts with requirement pyobjc-core>=2.5.1 That's an annoying problem with easy_install and pip, both install packages in the wrong order. I'll probably end up providing wheels (binary packages) for the next release to make it easier to install. > 2. I've tried updating the core first: > # easy_install --upgrade pyobjc-core > Searching for pyobjc-core > Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/pyobjc-core/ > Best match: pyobjc-core 2.5.1 > Downloading https://pypi.python.org/packages/source/p/pyobjc-core/pyobjc-core-2.5.1.tar.gz#md5=931c6cfb040df0d7e26c0898886380cf > Processing pyobjc-core-2.5.1.tar.gz > Running pyobjc-core-2.5.1/setup.py -q bdist_egg --dist-dir /tmp/easy_install-ySjK__/pyobjc-core-2.5.1/egg-dist-tmp-OSgoci > warning: no directories found matching 'Scripts' > warning: no directories found matching 'setup-lib' > warning: no directories found matching 'source-deps' > warning: no previously-included files matching '.DS_Store' found anywhere in distribution > warning: no previously-included files matching '*.pyc' found anywhere in distribution > warning: no previously-included files matching '*.so' found anywhere in distribution > error: Setup script exited with error: No such file or directory > > 3. So then I tried installing pyobjc-core manually: > > # python setup.py install > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "setup.py", line 32, in > import distribute_setup > ImportError: No module named distribute_setup > bash-3.2# Oops, it looks like the source archive is not complete. The workaround is to first install setuptools, does "python -c 'import setuptools'" work? Ronald > > Any suggestions? > > Best wishes, > > Nicholas > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG From nicholas.cole at gmail.com Tue Jul 30 15:46:15 2013 From: nicholas.cole at gmail.com (Nicholas Cole) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:46:15 +0100 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problem installing pyobjc In-Reply-To: <225C0022-7F48-4645-8894-978E3086D046@mac.com> References: <225C0022-7F48-4645-8894-978E3086D046@mac.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 2:38 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > > On 30 Jul, 2013, at 15:09, Nicholas Cole wrote: > > > Dear List, > > > > I am having trouble installing pyobjc. I've tried three things: > > > > # python --version > > Python 2.7.3rc1 > > Not that it is related to your problem, but why do you use an old > prerelease version of python? The current release is 2.7.5. You are quite right. This is not my main machine but a spare and I haven't updated the python on it. If only apt-get update-all worked on the Mac. ;-) [snip] > > # python setup.py install > > Traceback (most recent call last): > > File "setup.py", line 32, in > > import distribute_setup > > ImportError: No module named distribute_setup > > bash-3.2# > > Oops, it looks like the source archive is not complete. The workaround is > to first install setuptools, does "python -c 'import setuptools'" work? > It didn't and then I updated setuptools. However the build still fails with: copying PyObjCTest/test_weakref.py -> build/lib.macosx-10.6-intel-2.7/PyObjCTest running build_ext error: No such file or directory bash-3.2# -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ronaldoussoren at mac.com Tue Jul 30 17:02:02 2013 From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 17:02:02 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problem installing pyobjc In-Reply-To: References: <225C0022-7F48-4645-8894-978E3086D046@mac.com> Message-ID: On 30 Jul, 2013, at 15:46, Nicholas Cole wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 2:38 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > > > > Oops, it looks like the source archive is not complete. The workaround is to first install setuptools, does "python -c 'import setuptools'" work? The missing file tries to download setuptools when it is not yet on the user's machine. The next major version of PyObjC will just refuse to install with a nice error message when setuptools is not available. > > It didn't and then I updated setuptools. > > However the build still fails with: > > copying PyObjCTest/test_weakref.py -> build/lib.macosx-10.6-intel-2.7/PyObjCTest > running build_ext > error: No such file or directory I'll have to do some more debugging to find out what's going wrong here. Could you share some more information about your setup: * What is the version of OSX? * How was python installed, using an installer on www.python.org or through some other method? * Which version of Xcode is on the machine? BTW. I just tried installing pyobjc in a virtualenv on a 10.8 machine with the latest Xcode 4 and that worked without problems. Ronald From nicholas.cole at gmail.com Tue Jul 30 21:28:40 2013 From: nicholas.cole at gmail.com (Nicholas Cole) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 20:28:40 +0100 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problem installing pyobjc In-Reply-To: References: <225C0022-7F48-4645-8894-978E3086D046@mac.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > > I'll have to do some more debugging to find out what's going wrong here. > > Could you share some more information about your setup: > > * What is the version of OSX? > > * How was python installed, using an installer on www.python.org or > through some other method? > > * Which version of Xcode is on the machine? > > BTW. I just tried installing pyobjc in a virtualenv on a 10.8 machine with > the latest Xcode 4 and that worked without problems. OK. I've updated python to the latest production version of 2.7.5 using the installer provided by python.org. I'm running the latest version of Xcode, on OS X 10.8.4. All of the errors persist. The only thing I can't do is test a "clean" version of 10.8.4, because I don't have a Mac I can wipe. Is there anything else I can do to help? N. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ronaldoussoren at mac.com Tue Jul 30 21:54:02 2013 From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 21:54:02 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problem installing pyobjc In-Reply-To: References: <225C0022-7F48-4645-8894-978E3086D046@mac.com> Message-ID: On 30 Jul, 2013, at 21:28, Nicholas Cole wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > > I'll have to do some more debugging to find out what's going wrong here. > > Could you share some more information about your setup: > > * What is the version of OSX? > > * How was python installed, using an installer on www.python.org or through some other method? > > * Which version of Xcode is on the machine? > > BTW. I just tried installing pyobjc in a virtualenv on a 10.8 machine with the latest Xcode 4 and that worked without problems. > > OK. I've updated python to the latest production version of 2.7.5 using the installer provided by python.org. > > I'm running the latest version of Xcode, on OS X 10.8.4. > > All of the errors persist. Odd. One thing you could check: are the Xcode command-line tools installed and up-to-date (you can check this in the preference window of Xcode, on the Downloads tab) > > The only thing I can't do is test a "clean" version of 10.8.4, because I don't have a Mac I can wipe. That's not necessary. My machine is likely less clean that yours. Ronald From nicholas.cole at gmail.com Wed Jul 31 00:13:01 2013 From: nicholas.cole at gmail.com (Nicholas Cole) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 23:13:01 +0100 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problem installing pyobjc In-Reply-To: References: <225C0022-7F48-4645-8894-978E3086D046@mac.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > > On 30 Jul, 2013, at 21:28, Nicholas Cole wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Ronald Oussoren > wrote: > > > > I'll have to do some more debugging to find out what's going wrong here. > > > > Could you share some more information about your setup: > > > > * What is the version of OSX? > > > > * How was python installed, using an installer on www.python.org or > through some other method? > > > > * Which version of Xcode is on the machine? > > > > BTW. I just tried installing pyobjc in a virtualenv on a 10.8 machine > with the latest Xcode 4 and that worked without problems. > > > > OK. I've updated python to the latest production version of 2.7.5 using > the installer provided by python.org. > > > > I'm running the latest version of Xcode, on OS X 10.8.4. > > > > All of the errors persist. > > Odd. One thing you could check: are the Xcode command-line tools installed > and up-to-date (you can check this in the preference window of Xcode, on > the Downloads tab) > > You were spot on. The command line tools needed updating. Sorry about that. It didn't even occur to me to check. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ronaldoussoren at mac.com Wed Jul 31 00:15:55 2013 From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 00:15:55 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problem installing pyobjc In-Reply-To: References: <225C0022-7F48-4645-8894-978E3086D046@mac.com> Message-ID: <041C9D50-32AC-4273-B722-2E5FF5384A3A@mac.com> On 31 Jul, 2013, at 0:13, Nicholas Cole wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > > On 30 Jul, 2013, at 21:28, Nicholas Cole wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > > > > I'll have to do some more debugging to find out what's going wrong here. > > > > Could you share some more information about your setup: > > > > * What is the version of OSX? > > > > * How was python installed, using an installer on www.python.org or through some other method? > > > > * Which version of Xcode is on the machine? > > > > BTW. I just tried installing pyobjc in a virtualenv on a 10.8 machine with the latest Xcode 4 and that worked without problems. > > > > OK. I've updated python to the latest production version of 2.7.5 using the installer provided by python.org. > > > > I'm running the latest version of Xcode, on OS X 10.8.4. > > > > All of the errors persist. > > Odd. One thing you could check: are the Xcode command-line tools installed and up-to-date (you can check this in the preference window of Xcode, on the Downloads tab) > > > You were spot on. The command line tools needed updating. Sorry about that. It didn't even occur to me to check. Thank you. Great to hear that that was the problem. That's something to include in the installation instructions, and with some luck I'll be able to reproduce this in a VM as that would make it possible to tweak the setup.py script to give a nice error message instead of the rather unhelpfull one you got. Ronald