From wddozier at mac.com  Sun Oct  1 04:07:53 2006
From: wddozier at mac.com (Bill Dozier)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 19:07:53 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] pyobjc build from svn checkout?
Message-ID: <5D88916E-059C-473B-AF98-A8E78BDDD896@mac.com>

What else do I need to do?

mbp:~/build/pyobjc daddy$ ls
Doc                     Install.txt              
MANIFEST.in             ReadMe.html              
Xcode                   setup-lib
Examples                Installer Package        
Modules                 ReadMe.txt               
ez_setup                setup.py
HISTORIC.txt            Lib                      
NEWS.html               Scripts                 libffi- 
src              source-deps
Install.html            License.txt              
NEWS.txt                Tools                   sandbox
mbp:~/build/pyobjc daddy$ svn update

Fetching external item into 'ez_setup'
External at revision 2239.


Fetching external item into 'source-deps/unicode-source'
External at revision 975.

At revision 1885.
mbp:~/build/pyobjc daddy$ python setup.py build
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "setup.py", line 732, in <module>
     dependency_links = [],
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/ 
python2.5/distutils/core.py", line 112, in setup
     _setup_distribution = dist = klass(attrs)
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/ 
python2.5/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c3-py2.5.egg/setuptools/ 
dist.py", line 219, in __init__
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/ 
python2.5/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c3-py2.5.egg/setuptools/ 
dist.py", line 243, in fetch_build_eggs
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/ 
python2.5/site-packages/pkg_resources.py", line 487, in resolve
     raise VersionConflict(dist,req) # XXX put more info here
pkg_resources.VersionConflict: (bdist-mpkg 0.4.2.dev-r0 (/Library/ 
Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/site-packages/ 
bdist_mpkg-0.4.2.dev_r0-py2.5.egg), Requirement.parse('bdist- 
mpkg>=0.4.2'))
mbp:~/build/pyobjc daddy$





--
"I can sum that up in one word: youneverknow." -- Joaquin Andujar

Bill Dozier
wddozier at mac.com


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From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Sun Oct  1 11:08:11 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 11:08:11 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [4suite] python2.5 error building 4Suite-1.0rc4
In-Reply-To: <451B6D12.30505@ogbuji.net>
References: <4F4005B6-E56C-42D6-9280-0D5133E24429@lbl.gov>
	<451B6D12.30505@ogbuji.net>
Message-ID: <CAC3251F-20C4-4D65-BA49-7B4EF4ADEDB9@mac.com>


On Sep 28, 2006, at 8:34 AM, Uche Ogbuji wrote:

>>
>> From Ft/Xml/src/expat/lib/xmlparse.c
>>      18 #ifndef HAVE_UINTPTR_T
>>      19 #if SIZEOF_VOID_P <= SIZEOF_INT
>>      20 typedef unsigned int uintptr_t;
>>
>> It appears like the problem is with the python2.5 installation,  
>> anybody
>> else have this problem?
>
> Yes.  This was reported and we put a workaround in recently.  Try a
> recent 4Suite CVS snapshot.

It seems to be a problem in the configure script for python 2.5, the  
configure script seems to be checking if untptr_t is a built-in type.  
I have a patch and have asked on python-dev if this is indeed a  
correct patch.

Ronald

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From jeremy.kloth at 4suite.org  Sun Oct  1 19:18:08 2006
From: jeremy.kloth at 4suite.org (Jeremy Kloth)
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 11:18:08 -0600
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [4suite] python2.5 error building 4Suite-1.0rc4
In-Reply-To: <CAC3251F-20C4-4D65-BA49-7B4EF4ADEDB9@mac.com>
References: <4F4005B6-E56C-42D6-9280-0D5133E24429@lbl.gov>
	<451B6D12.30505@ogbuji.net>
	<CAC3251F-20C4-4D65-BA49-7B4EF4ADEDB9@mac.com>
Message-ID: <200610011118.08965.jeremy.kloth@4suite.org>

On Sunday, October 1, 2006 3:08 am, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
> On Sep 28, 2006, at 8:34 AM, Uche Ogbuji wrote:
> >> From Ft/Xml/src/expat/lib/xmlparse.c
> >>      18 #ifndef HAVE_UINTPTR_T
> >>      19 #if SIZEOF_VOID_P <= SIZEOF_INT
> >>      20 typedef unsigned int uintptr_t;
> >>
> >> It appears like the problem is with the python2.5 installation,
> >> anybody
> >> else have this problem?
> >
> > Yes.  This was reported and we put a workaround in recently.  Try a
> > recent 4Suite CVS snapshot.
>
> It seems to be a problem in the configure script for python 2.5, the
> configure script seems to be checking if untptr_t is a built-in type.
> I have a patch and have asked on python-dev if this is indeed a
> correct patch.

I believe that this is also present in Python 2.4.  I mention only as 2.4.4 is 
being prepared for release.

-- 
Jeremy Kloth
http://4suite.org/

From rsfinn at gmail.com  Mon Oct  2 05:09:11 2006
From: rsfinn at gmail.com (Russell Finn)
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 23:09:11 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] pyobjc build from svn checkout?
In-Reply-To: <5D88916E-059C-473B-AF98-A8E78BDDD896@mac.com>
References: <5D88916E-059C-473B-AF98-A8E78BDDD896@mac.com>
Message-ID: <a47214750610012009p68a88590g65c7af2365796440@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/30/06, Bill Dozier <wddozier at mac.com> wrote:
>
> What else do I need to do?

Read this thread in the pyobjc-dev mailing list:

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.pyobjc.devel/4155
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.pyobjc.devel/4169

(It's one logical thread; for some reason my comments got put in a
separate physical thread.  Is there a better way to reference the list
archives?  The sourceforge interface seems less useful...)

-- Russell Finn

From rowen at cesmail.net  Mon Oct  2 20:10:27 2006
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 11:10:27 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Are python extensions compatible between 32 and 64
	bit Macs?
Message-ID: <rowen-403913.11102702102006@sea.gmane.org>

Will C extensions to Python that are built on 64 bit Macs (such as the 
new iMacs) will work on 32 bit Macs, and visa versa?

-- Russell


From bob at redivi.com  Mon Oct  2 20:28:26 2006
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 11:28:26 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Are python extensions compatible between 32 and
	64 bit Macs?
In-Reply-To: <rowen-403913.11102702102006@sea.gmane.org>
References: <rowen-403913.11102702102006@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290610021128q43aadfb0u57eef17416d7e295@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/2/06, Russell E. Owen <rowen at cesmail.net> wrote:
> Will C extensions to Python that are built on 64 bit Macs (such as the
> new iMacs) will work on 32 bit Macs, and visa versa?

Definitely if the universal binary distribution for Python 2.5 or
2.4.3 are used, because it explicitly compiles for (32-bit) i386 and
ppc only.

-bob

From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov  Mon Oct  2 21:07:28 2006
From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Christopher Barker)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 12:07:28 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
In-Reply-To: <4C624ACF-55CE-460E-AA56-F48129B11CBE@laposte.net>
References: <97E9D1F2-C60F-4349-97CE-644183059E8A@airmail.net>
	<8c7f10c60609220217r2c0b3798qfb9de084eb3f4c32@mail.gmail.com>
	<6a36e7290609220233p5ccdfa3fy8ab2eafa0b5d8fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<45140CB1.7020102@noaa.gov>
	<8c7f10c60609220923u87fa311v9e78dd210dc320@mail.gmail.com>
	<45141343.5020200@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290609220951w49e14a65oe649214183776d95@mail.gmail.com>
	<70F42318-DE8E-4804-98A3-AD2AFF16E7F5@laposte.net>
	<D95C7787-3F50-45AB-A695-9CB793B0DCE1@mac.com>
	<826654B5-B74A-4727-BDFA-0A5EFF8AA302@laposte.net>
	<6a36e7290609271035v1ad1fd63t6fb45dd713f566e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C624ACF-55CE-460E-AA56-F48129B11CBE@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <45216370.1040309@noaa.gov>

konrad.hinsen at laposte.net wrote:
>>> What I was looking for is actually a bit more modest: I want to
>>> create an installer that checks that all dependencies are fulfilled.

> True, but I don't mind. The users I am thinking of know nothing about  
> Python and would just install packages. I want to be able to warn  
> them if they forget one or try to install them in the wrong order.

> If there is no such tool, I guess it would be easy to write in  
> Python

The fundamental issue here is that Apple has not given us a 
full-featured package management tool. Perhaps it would be better to 
figure out the best system for Python, rather than kludging around the 
limitations of .mpkgs.

My first thought on that is setup-tools -- it seems to have all the 
features you want, except for the ability for a non-python-aware user 
to just click on something. That being the case, what we need is a 
little micro-gui to associate with eggs, so that people can just click 
on them, and get a little dialog asking if they want to install, etc.

The trick here is: what to write it in?

PyObjC, wxPython, Tk, all need to be installed correctly before they can 
be used.

Maybe we could use the wxPython that Apple delivers (do they deliver a 
usable Tk?), or maybe it could be written in ObjC instead of Python (NO! 
say it isn't so!) Another option is to make sure that the MacPython 
installer installs something usable by default -- PyObjC, wxPython, TK, 
or???

Other thoughts?

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                     		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chris.Barker at noaa.gov

From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov  Mon Oct  2 21:14:16 2006
From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Christopher Barker)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 12:14:16 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] building statically with bdist_mpkg
In-Reply-To: <AB64E6C5-8B40-49D8-A2D7-51A1573C4AA9@mac.com>
References: <AB64E6C5-8B40-49D8-A2D7-51A1573C4AA9@mac.com>
Message-ID: <45216508.8000008@noaa.gov>

listservs at mac.com wrote:
> I've looked around for some docs on how to do this, but was  
> unsuccessful: How do you build statically using bdist_mpkg? At the  
> moment, I am building manually using
> 
> python setup.py config -L ../staticlibs build install
> 
> where staticlibs holds all of the libraries I need.

If you add that path in your setup.py, then it will be used by 
bdist_mpkg. I don't remember exactly the incantation to do this, but 
it's something like library_dirs.

-Chris




-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                     		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chris.Barker at noaa.gov

From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov  Mon Oct  2 21:17:28 2006
From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Christopher Barker)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 12:17:28 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problems with MacPython packages at
 pythonmac.org -	numpy, scipy, matplotlib
In-Reply-To: <10136E08-8476-40C4-83E6-FE773765C05D@peterbull.com>
References: <10136E08-8476-40C4-83E6-FE773765C05D@peterbull.com>
Message-ID: <452165C8.1050409@noaa.gov>

Adam Bull wrote:
> Hi, I'm told this is the right place to discuss problems with the  
> packages at pythonmac.org? There are a few things that need fixing:
> 
> The supplied version of scipy, 1.5.0, doesn't work with the supplied  
> version of of numpy, 1.0b5; it gives an error when importing.  
> Updating numpy to 1.0rc1 would fix the problem.

hmm. Charlie Moad built all of those, I thought he kept them compatible. 
Darn. If he hasn't responded, you can find him on the MPL list. This 
should all settle down soon.

-Chris

-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                     		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chris.Barker at noaa.gov

From bob at redivi.com  Mon Oct  2 21:24:20 2006
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:24:20 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
In-Reply-To: <45216370.1040309@noaa.gov>
References: <97E9D1F2-C60F-4349-97CE-644183059E8A@airmail.net>
	<8c7f10c60609220923u87fa311v9e78dd210dc320@mail.gmail.com>
	<45141343.5020200@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290609220951w49e14a65oe649214183776d95@mail.gmail.com>
	<70F42318-DE8E-4804-98A3-AD2AFF16E7F5@laposte.net>
	<D95C7787-3F50-45AB-A695-9CB793B0DCE1@mac.com>
	<826654B5-B74A-4727-BDFA-0A5EFF8AA302@laposte.net>
	<6a36e7290609271035v1ad1fd63t6fb45dd713f566e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C624ACF-55CE-460E-AA56-F48129B11CBE@laposte.net>
	<45216370.1040309@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290610021224p2fb501b7j9a20b168ee856787@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/2/06, Christopher Barker <Chris.Barker at noaa.gov> wrote:
> konrad.hinsen at laposte.net wrote:
> >>> What I was looking for is actually a bit more modest: I want to
> >>> create an installer that checks that all dependencies are fulfilled.
>
> > True, but I don't mind. The users I am thinking of know nothing about
> > Python and would just install packages. I want to be able to warn
> > them if they forget one or try to install them in the wrong order.
>
> > If there is no such tool, I guess it would be easy to write in
> > Python
>
> The fundamental issue here is that Apple has not given us a
> full-featured package management tool. Perhaps it would be better to
> figure out the best system for Python, rather than kludging around the
> limitations of .mpkgs.
>
> My first thought on that is setup-tools -- it seems to have all the
> features you want, except for the ability for a non-python-aware user
> to just click on something. That being the case, what we need is a
> little micro-gui to associate with eggs, so that people can just click
> on them, and get a little dialog asking if they want to install, etc.
>
> The trick here is: what to write it in?
>
> PyObjC, wxPython, Tk, all need to be installed correctly before they can
> be used.
>
> Maybe we could use the wxPython that Apple delivers (do they deliver a
> usable Tk?), or maybe it could be written in ObjC instead of Python (NO!
> say it isn't so!) Another option is to make sure that the MacPython
> installer installs something usable by default -- PyObjC, wxPython, TK,
> or???
>
> Other thoughts?

It's not a great idea to put a front-end on easy_install at this
point. It would be an enormous amount of work for very little gain.
It's also not at all designed such that it's easy to break what it's
doing up into little chunks so that you can properly display status
and whatnot from a GUI.

Using easy_install is quite easy -- you type "easy_install
WhatYouNeed" and press return. That's it. Users currently need some
familiarity with Terminal in order to get anything done with Python
anyway.

-bob

From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov  Mon Oct  2 22:55:01 2006
From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Christopher Barker)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 13:55:01 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
In-Reply-To: <6a36e7290610021224p2fb501b7j9a20b168ee856787@mail.gmail.com>
References: <97E9D1F2-C60F-4349-97CE-644183059E8A@airmail.net>
	<8c7f10c60609220923u87fa311v9e78dd210dc320@mail.gmail.com>
	<45141343.5020200@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290609220951w49e14a65oe649214183776d95@mail.gmail.com>
	<70F42318-DE8E-4804-98A3-AD2AFF16E7F5@laposte.net>
	<D95C7787-3F50-45AB-A695-9CB793B0DCE1@mac.com>
	<826654B5-B74A-4727-BDFA-0A5EFF8AA302@laposte.net>
	<6a36e7290609271035v1ad1fd63t6fb45dd713f566e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C624ACF-55CE-460E-AA56-F48129B11CBE@laposte.net>
	<45216370.1040309@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290610021224p2fb501b7j9a20b168ee856787@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45217CA5.5070807@noaa.gov>

Bob Ippolito wrote:
> It's not a great idea to put a front-end on easy_install at this
> point. It would be an enormous amount of work for very little gain.
> It's also not at all designed such that it's easy to break what it's
> doing up into little chunks so that you can properly display status
> and whatnot from a GUI.

I wasn't imagining a lot of work -- just *something* that allows new 
users to point and click at a egg and get something useful.

> Using easy_install is quite easy -- you type "easy_install
> WhatYouNeed" and press return. That's it. Users currently need some
> familiarity with Terminal in order to get anything done with Python
> anyway.

That's a good point, just the same. Now if just put a copy of 
easy_install in the standard MacPython installer, we'd be one step in 
the right direction.

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                     		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chris.Barker at noaa.gov

From bob at redivi.com  Mon Oct  2 23:12:26 2006
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:12:26 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
In-Reply-To: <45217CA5.5070807@noaa.gov>
References: <97E9D1F2-C60F-4349-97CE-644183059E8A@airmail.net>
	<6a36e7290609220951w49e14a65oe649214183776d95@mail.gmail.com>
	<70F42318-DE8E-4804-98A3-AD2AFF16E7F5@laposte.net>
	<D95C7787-3F50-45AB-A695-9CB793B0DCE1@mac.com>
	<826654B5-B74A-4727-BDFA-0A5EFF8AA302@laposte.net>
	<6a36e7290609271035v1ad1fd63t6fb45dd713f566e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C624ACF-55CE-460E-AA56-F48129B11CBE@laposte.net>
	<45216370.1040309@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290610021224p2fb501b7j9a20b168ee856787@mail.gmail.com>
	<45217CA5.5070807@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290610021412n20ce91wf34159f77c3e2b4f@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/2/06, Christopher Barker <Chris.Barker at noaa.gov> wrote:
> Bob Ippolito wrote:
> > It's not a great idea to put a front-end on easy_install at this
> > point. It would be an enormous amount of work for very little gain.
> > It's also not at all designed such that it's easy to break what it's
> > doing up into little chunks so that you can properly display status
> > and whatnot from a GUI.
>
> I wasn't imagining a lot of work -- just *something* that allows new
> users to point and click at a egg and get something useful.

Well it's possible to create an association with .egg files to open up
a terminal and run easy_install, but that's kinda pointless because
nobody downloads eggs manually.

> > Using easy_install is quite easy -- you type "easy_install
> > WhatYouNeed" and press return. That's it. Users currently need some
> > familiarity with Terminal in order to get anything done with Python
> > anyway.
>
> That's a good point, just the same. Now if just put a copy of
> easy_install in the standard MacPython installer, we'd be one step in
> the right direction.

That would deviate from the norm where MacPython ships only with what
comes with Python -- nothing third party (beyond dependencies of
extensions that ship with Python).

That said, I'm +0.

-bob

From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Tue Oct  3 08:10:55 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 08:10:55 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
In-Reply-To: <6a36e7290610021224p2fb501b7j9a20b168ee856787@mail.gmail.com>
References: <97E9D1F2-C60F-4349-97CE-644183059E8A@airmail.net>
	<8c7f10c60609220923u87fa311v9e78dd210dc320@mail.gmail.com>
	<45141343.5020200@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290609220951w49e14a65oe649214183776d95@mail.gmail.com>
	<70F42318-DE8E-4804-98A3-AD2AFF16E7F5@laposte.net>
	<D95C7787-3F50-45AB-A695-9CB793B0DCE1@mac.com>
	<826654B5-B74A-4727-BDFA-0A5EFF8AA302@laposte.net>
	<6a36e7290609271035v1ad1fd63t6fb45dd713f566e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C624ACF-55CE-460E-AA56-F48129B11CBE@laposte.net>
	<45216370.1040309@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290610021224p2fb501b7j9a20b168ee856787@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <944F3206-A1B1-4F56-8AF3-683BB7815EFB@mac.com>


On Oct 2, 2006, at 9:24 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote:

>>
>> PyObjC, wxPython, Tk, all need to be installed correctly before  
>> they can
>> be used.

On 10.4 Tk is already installed and could be used, it has appearently  
has issues but an egg frontend could be kept simple enough to work  
around those.

But that isn't really an issue anyway, the setuptools frontend could,  
and probably should, be build as a (semi-) standalone application  
bundle. That way you can include all libraries you want into the  
application bundle without depending on what the user wants to have  
installed.

>>
>> Maybe we could use the wxPython that Apple delivers (do they  
>> deliver a
>> usable Tk?), or maybe it could be written in ObjC instead of  
>> Python (NO!
>> say it isn't so!) Another option is to make sure that the MacPython
>> installer installs something usable by default -- PyObjC,  
>> wxPython, TK,
>> or???
>>
>> Other thoughts?
>
> It's not a great idea to put a front-end on easy_install at this
> point. It would be an enormous amount of work for very little gain.
> It's also not at all designed such that it's easy to break what it's
> doing up into little chunks so that you can properly display status
> and whatnot from a GUI.

I somewhat agree with this, anyone that want to build a frontend for  
easy_install should be prepared to work with PJE to enhance  
setuptools/easy_install to make it easier to write a frontend to  
setuptools.  Writing the actual UI is pretty easy.

Ronald
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From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Tue Oct  3 08:27:15 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 08:27:15 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
In-Reply-To: <6a36e7290610021412n20ce91wf34159f77c3e2b4f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <97E9D1F2-C60F-4349-97CE-644183059E8A@airmail.net>
	<6a36e7290609220951w49e14a65oe649214183776d95@mail.gmail.com>
	<70F42318-DE8E-4804-98A3-AD2AFF16E7F5@laposte.net>
	<D95C7787-3F50-45AB-A695-9CB793B0DCE1@mac.com>
	<826654B5-B74A-4727-BDFA-0A5EFF8AA302@laposte.net>
	<6a36e7290609271035v1ad1fd63t6fb45dd713f566e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C624ACF-55CE-460E-AA56-F48129B11CBE@laposte.net>
	<45216370.1040309@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290610021224p2fb501b7j9a20b168ee856787@mail.gmail.com>
	<45217CA5.5070807@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290610021412n20ce91wf34159f77c3e2b4f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0C9B78E7-2D85-45A7-AAFC-EFB881D2410A@mac.com>


On Oct 2, 2006, at 11:12 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote:

>>
>> That's a good point, just the same. Now if just put a copy of
>> easy_install in the standard MacPython installer, we'd be one step in
>> the right direction.
>
> That would deviate from the norm where MacPython ships only with what
> comes with Python -- nothing third party (beyond dependencies of
> extensions that ship with Python).
>
> That said, I'm +0.

I'm -0 on this. Easy-install is very convenient and I wish it were  
part of Python 2.5 but it isn't. MacPython is at this point in time  
"just" the official binary distribution of the python.org tree.

Growing it beyond that (that is include third party libraries and  
tools) could be useful, but even then I'd be more inclined towards  
adding useful GUI tools than libraries.

Ronald

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From konrad.hinsen at laposte.net  Tue Oct  3 12:16:47 2006
From: konrad.hinsen at laposte.net (Konrad Hinsen)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 12:16:47 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
In-Reply-To: <6a36e7290610021224p2fb501b7j9a20b168ee856787@mail.gmail.com>
References: <97E9D1F2-C60F-4349-97CE-644183059E8A@airmail.net>
	<8c7f10c60609220923u87fa311v9e78dd210dc320@mail.gmail.com>
	<45141343.5020200@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290609220951w49e14a65oe649214183776d95@mail.gmail.com>
	<70F42318-DE8E-4804-98A3-AD2AFF16E7F5@laposte.net>
	<D95C7787-3F50-45AB-A695-9CB793B0DCE1@mac.com>
	<826654B5-B74A-4727-BDFA-0A5EFF8AA302@laposte.net>
	<6a36e7290609271035v1ad1fd63t6fb45dd713f566e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C624ACF-55CE-460E-AA56-F48129B11CBE@laposte.net>
	<45216370.1040309@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290610021224p2fb501b7j9a20b168ee856787@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EFCFC20F-8488-47E3-9B37-8B69BD6398CF@laposte.net>

On Oct 2, 2006, at 21:24, Bob Ippolito wrote:

> Using easy_install is quite easy -- you type "easy_install
> WhatYouNeed" and press return. That's it. Users currently need some
> familiarity with Terminal in order to get anything done with Python
> anyway.

Not necessarily. I know one person who uses nothing but IDLE and is  
quite scared of the command line.

On Oct 2, 2006, at 23:12, Bob Ippolito wrote:

> Well it's possible to create an association with .egg files to open up
> a terminal and run easy_install, but that's kinda pointless because
> nobody downloads eggs manually.

I know lots of users who would prefer to download packages and then  
install them, rather than do everything on one step. There are  
various reasons for this:

- You can decide to download only from trustworthy places, or install  
only packages handed to you by a trustworthy person.

- You can archive the packages you download, so you always know  
exactly what you installed and you can always reproduce an  
installation at a later time.

- You can install on a machine without an internet connection  
(laptops on the road, high-security sites, cluster nodes, ...)

- If you are behind a strict firewall, you can download using your  
preconfigured browser and don't have to configure proxies for  
additional tools.


Therefore, if it is possible to download and install eggs manually,  
then I am sure there would be a client base for a GUI-based installer  
associated with .egg files.


That said, I have to add that I am not a big fan of setuptools. Last  
time I checked, they didn't handle installation of C header files in  
a useful way. Since most of my packages include C header files and  
depend on other packages' C header files, setuptools are of little  
use for me.

Konrad.


From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Tue Oct  3 12:43:50 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 12:43:50 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
In-Reply-To: <EFCFC20F-8488-47E3-9B37-8B69BD6398CF@laposte.net>
References: <97E9D1F2-C60F-4349-97CE-644183059E8A@airmail.net>
	<8c7f10c60609220923u87fa311v9e78dd210dc320@mail.gmail.com>
	<45141343.5020200@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290609220951w49e14a65oe649214183776d95@mail.gmail.com>
	<70F42318-DE8E-4804-98A3-AD2AFF16E7F5@laposte.net>
	<D95C7787-3F50-45AB-A695-9CB793B0DCE1@mac.com>
	<826654B5-B74A-4727-BDFA-0A5EFF8AA302@laposte.net>
	<6a36e7290609271035v1ad1fd63t6fb45dd713f566e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C624ACF-55CE-460E-AA56-F48129B11CBE@laposte.net>
	<45216370.1040309@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290610021224p2fb501b7j9a20b168ee856787@mail.gmail.com>
	<EFCFC20F-8488-47E3-9B37-8B69BD6398CF@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <C216C875-7552-485C-AE1E-7C8FD33EC4C7@mac.com>


On Oct 3, 2006, at 12:16 PM, Konrad Hinsen wrote:

>
> That said, I have to add that I am not a big fan of setuptools. Last
> time I checked, they didn't handle installation of C header files in
> a useful way. Since most of my packages include C header files and
> depend on other packages' C header files, setuptools are of little
> use for me.

I have a patch for setuptools 0.7 that includes header files in eggs  
and ensures that other setuptools-aware packages see those during  
build_ext. PJE has indicated that something like this will be added  
to setuptools in 0.7 timeframe.

I'm rather happy with setuptools, there are some cosmetic problems  
(like the header-file thingy), but the core seems pretty well thought  
out. The main thing I'm missing right now are nice command-line  
utilities for managing installed eggs (easy_install is cool, but I  
want to be able to list installed eggs and uninstall them as well). ls 
(1) and rm(1) work for those tasks, but aren't ideal. This features  
is appearently also on the list for the 0.7 release (but not yet  
implemented).

Ronald
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From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Tue Oct  3 15:19:42 2006
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 09:19:42 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
Message-ID: <7F5EDC34-54B5-45D6-A098-C59FB7ED7ACB@conncoll.edu>

Bob Ippolito said:

> Using easy_install is quite easy -- you type "easy_install
> WhatYouNeed" and press return. That's it. Users currently need some
> familiarity with Terminal in order to get anything done with Python
> anyway.

But hasn't there been real progress toward making that not true? And  
isn't that a good thing? Can't Python be an OSX programming  
enrivonment rather than (as well as) a Darwin one?

I suppose the simple way would be a tiny Applescript drag-and-drop  
that just called easy_install . . .

Charles Hartman


From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov  Tue Oct  3 18:24:54 2006
From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Christopher Barker)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 09:24:54 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
In-Reply-To: <7F5EDC34-54B5-45D6-A098-C59FB7ED7ACB@conncoll.edu>
References: <7F5EDC34-54B5-45D6-A098-C59FB7ED7ACB@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <45228ED6.8060104@noaa.gov>

Charles Hartman wrote:
> Bob Ippolito said:
>> Users currently need some familiarity with Terminal in order to get
>> anything done with Python anyway.

> But hasn't there been real progress toward making that not true? And
>  isn't that a good thing? Can't Python be an OSX programming 
> enrivonment rather than (as well as) a Darwin one?

Exactly. Heck, for lots of packages:

$ sudo python setup.py install

works fine too, but I still think it's worth building mpkgs of those.

It seems to me that that the community on this list has shared the goal 
of making Python on OS-X as easy to use and "mac-like" as possible. 
That's why we have the repository of binary packages on pythonmac.org.

So far, it appears the easiest way to make a package easy to install for 
a mac user is to make a *.mpgk of it. In fact, I've advocated for years 
that the best way to make python accessible on all platforms if to have 
packages in a "native" format -- that means rpms on rpm based linux 
systems, MS installers for windows, and mpkgs for the Mac.

However, Apple has not provided us with a full-featured package 
management system. So we are faced with either kludging around its 
limitations, or using something else as the default way to distribute 
packages for OS-X. Right now, setuptools is really the only other option.

In fact, at this point, there is at least one important package that 
isn't available as a *.mpkg (Py2App). People need to install the Python 
package, then go find an easy-install script somewhere, install it, then 
use it to install py2app. This really isn't a huge deal, but it is too 
much for the "casual mac user" -- it took me a little poking around to 
figure out, which is way too much for anyone that is new to python and 
the whole command line thing.

Shouldn't there at least be a package for easy-install itself?

Ronald Oussoren wrote:
> I'm rather happy with setuptools, there are some cosmetic problems
> (like the header-file thingy), but the core seems pretty well thought
> out.

> This features is apparently also on the list for the 0.7 release (but
> not yet implemented).

Which reinforces that setuptools is a good option to pursue.

> I'm -0 on this. Easy-install is very convenient and I wish it were part 
> of Python 2.5 but it isn't. MacPython is at this point in time "just" 
> the official binary distribution of the python.org tree.
> 
> Growing it beyond that (that is include third party libraries and tools) 
> could be useful, but even then I'd be more inclined towards adding 
> useful GUI tools than libraries.

Which is what I'm talking about. I don't agree that "MacPython is at 
this point in time "just" the official binary distribution of the 
python.org tree". I've certainly got the impression that the goal is to 
make Python work smoothly and "natively" on the Mac. I suppose the only 
real additions are the pythonw (now called python) front end and a 
little tweaking of shell start-up scripts, but those are important.

Maybe installing setuptools by default is the thin end of the wedge, but 
I think it's critical that we do have a standard and easy way for people 
to install packages.

setuptools is still a bit of a mystery to me, but I'm still confused as 
to why it is more than trivial to make a small gui that will:

Pop up a dialog when you click on a *.egg, with a message like:

Would you like to install the python package: blah-blah-blah:
[install] [cancel]

if [install] is clicked, it would ask for the admin password, then 
install the package.

If dependencies are required, it would pop up another dialog:

The following other packages are required to install this one. Would you 
like these to be auto-downloaded for you, or would you like to download 
and install them by hand?
[auto-download] [I'll do it]

Thats it. I think setuptools provides that functionality at this point. 
Am I wrong?

Key is that there is a default way to download an egg, click on it, 
select all the defaults in a series of dialogs, and get your package 
installed.

-Chris

-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                     		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chris.Barker at noaa.gov

From bob at redivi.com  Tue Oct  3 19:09:18 2006
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 10:09:18 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
In-Reply-To: <EFCFC20F-8488-47E3-9B37-8B69BD6398CF@laposte.net>
References: <97E9D1F2-C60F-4349-97CE-644183059E8A@airmail.net>
	<6a36e7290609220951w49e14a65oe649214183776d95@mail.gmail.com>
	<70F42318-DE8E-4804-98A3-AD2AFF16E7F5@laposte.net>
	<D95C7787-3F50-45AB-A695-9CB793B0DCE1@mac.com>
	<826654B5-B74A-4727-BDFA-0A5EFF8AA302@laposte.net>
	<6a36e7290609271035v1ad1fd63t6fb45dd713f566e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C624ACF-55CE-460E-AA56-F48129B11CBE@laposte.net>
	<45216370.1040309@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290610021224p2fb501b7j9a20b168ee856787@mail.gmail.com>
	<EFCFC20F-8488-47E3-9B37-8B69BD6398CF@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290610031009o1e45cfcer1510e0a92ede9a38@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/3/06, Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen at laposte.net> wrote:
> On Oct 2, 2006, at 21:24, Bob Ippolito wrote:
>
> > Using easy_install is quite easy -- you type "easy_install
> > WhatYouNeed" and press return. That's it. Users currently need some
> > familiarity with Terminal in order to get anything done with Python
> > anyway.
>
> Not necessarily. I know one person who uses nothing but IDLE and is
> quite scared of the command line.
>
> On Oct 2, 2006, at 23:12, Bob Ippolito wrote:
>
> > Well it's possible to create an association with .egg files to open up
> > a terminal and run easy_install, but that's kinda pointless because
> > nobody downloads eggs manually.
>
> I know lots of users who would prefer to download packages and then
> install them, rather than do everything on one step. There are
> various reasons for this:
>
> - You can decide to download only from trustworthy places, or install
> only packages handed to you by a trustworthy person.
>
> - You can archive the packages you download, so you always know
> exactly what you installed and you can always reproduce an
> installation at a later time.
>
> - You can install on a machine without an internet connection
> (laptops on the road, high-security sites, cluster nodes, ...)
>
> - If you are behind a strict firewall, you can download using your
> preconfigured browser and don't have to configure proxies for
> additional tools.
>
>
> Therefore, if it is possible to download and install eggs manually,
> then I am sure there would be a client base for a GUI-based installer
> associated with .egg files.

It's still very atypical. You'd be coding a GUI client that three people use.

There are options with easy_install to do all of these things. I'm
pretty sure there's an option to download packages without installing
them that people use to download the eggs (e.g. for transfer to
another machine or archival), and there's an option to use a
filesystem path instead of the internet for installing packages.

> That said, I have to add that I am not a big fan of setuptools. Last
> time I checked, they didn't handle installation of C header files in
> a useful way. Since most of my packages include C header files and
> depend on other packages' C header files, setuptools are of little
> use for me.

Any other problems you have you should report to distutils-sig so that
they get fixed. It's definitely not going to get any less popular, so
you're going to have to live with setuptools.

-bob

From rowen at cesmail.net  Tue Oct  3 19:18:43 2006
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 10:18:43 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
References: <97E9D1F2-C60F-4349-97CE-644183059E8A@airmail.net>
	<8c7f10c60609220923u87fa311v9e78dd210dc320@mail.gmail.com>
	<45141343.5020200@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290609220951w49e14a65oe649214183776d95@mail.gmail.com>
	<70F42318-DE8E-4804-98A3-AD2AFF16E7F5@laposte.net>
	<D95C7787-3F50-45AB-A695-9CB793B0DCE1@mac.com>
	<826654B5-B74A-4727-BDFA-0A5EFF8AA302@laposte.net>
	<6a36e7290609271035v1ad1fd63t6fb45dd713f566e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C624ACF-55CE-460E-AA56-F48129B11CBE@laposte.net>
	<45216370.1040309@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290610021224p2fb501b7j9a20b168ee856787@mail.gmail.com>
	<944F3206-A1B1-4F56-8AF3-683BB7815EFB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <rowen-FB951F.10184303102006@sea.gmane.org>

In article <944F3206-A1B1-4F56-8AF3-683BB7815EFB at mac.com>,
 Ronald Oussoren <ronaldoussoren at mac.com> wrote:

> On Oct 2, 2006, at 9:24 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote:
> 
> >>
> >> PyObjC, wxPython, Tk, all need to be installed correctly before  
> >> they can
> >> be used.
> 
> On 10.4 Tk is already installed and could be used, it has appearently  
> has issues but an egg frontend could be kept simple enough to work  
> around those.

I agree. The installed Tcl/Tk 8.4.7 is perfectly adequate for something 
like this. (Using PyObjC could probably make more Mac-standard 
interface, but if Bob feels uncomfortable including that in MacPython 
then Tcl/Tk does seem like the obvious choice.)

-- Russell


From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Tue Oct  3 19:24:24 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 19:24:24 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
In-Reply-To: <45228ED6.8060104@noaa.gov>
References: <7F5EDC34-54B5-45D6-A098-C59FB7ED7ACB@conncoll.edu>
	<45228ED6.8060104@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <9F20976C-11D3-4E3E-B02C-6BA1A8DB5192@mac.com>


On Oct 3, 2006, at 6:24 PM, Christopher Barker wrote:

>
> So far, it appears the easiest way to make a package easy to  
> install for
> a mac user is to make a *.mpgk of it. In fact, I've advocated for  
> years
> that the best way to make python accessible on all platforms if to  
> have
> packages in a "native" format -- that means rpms on rpm based linux
> systems, MS installers for windows, and mpkgs for the Mac.

That depends on how you look at things ;-). As a system administrator  
I really prefer software that is installed using native packages,  
that way I have one repository to query to see what is installed. The  
disadvantage of using a native package system is that the python user  
has to remember which tool he has to use on every partical box  
instead of using something familiar.

But for the mac we don't really have a choice, as you mentioned Apple  
doesn't ship a good package manager anyway, so we won't miss out a  
lot when we don't use .mpkg's.
>
> Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>> I'm rather happy with setuptools, there are some cosmetic problems
>> (like the header-file thingy), but the core seems pretty well thought
>> out.
>
>> This features is apparently also on the list for the 0.7 release (but
>> not yet implemented).
>
> Which reinforces that setuptools is a good option to pursue.

Yup.

>
>> I'm -0 on this. Easy-install is very convenient and I wish it were  
>> part
>> of Python 2.5 but it isn't. MacPython is at this point in time "just"
>> the official binary distribution of the python.org tree.
>>
>> Growing it beyond that (that is include third party libraries and  
>> tools)
>> could be useful, but even then I'd be more inclined towards adding
>> useful GUI tools than libraries.
>
> Which is what I'm talking about. I don't agree that "MacPython is at
> this point in time "just" the official binary distribution of the
> python.org tree". I've certainly got the impression that the goal  
> is to
> make Python work smoothly and "natively" on the Mac. I suppose the  
> only
> real additions are the pythonw (now called python) front end and a
> little tweaking of shell start-up scripts, but those are important.

Sure, but at this point in time all that work is done within the  
boundaries of the official python.org tree. That's not to say that  
this cannot change, and IMHO this should change at some point. I'd  
love to see better GUI tools than IDLE included with the official  
distribution.
>
> Maybe installing setuptools by default is the thin end of the  
> wedge, but
> I think it's critical that we do have a standard and easy way for  
> people
> to install packages.

There is one major problem with setuptools w.r.t. this: at least some  
of the python.org maintainers really dislike it for some reason or  
the other.  That makes it including setuptools in the official python  
distribution for the mac a bit hairy.

>
> setuptools is still a bit of a mystery to me, but I'm still  
> confused as
> to why it is more than trivial to make a small gui that will:
>
> Pop up a dialog when you click on a *.egg, with a message like:
>
> Would you like to install the python package: blah-blah-blah:
> [install] [cancel]
>
> if [install] is clicked, it would ask for the admin password, then
> install the package.
>
> If dependencies are required, it would pop up another dialog:
>
> The following other packages are required to install this one.  
> Would you
> like these to be auto-downloaded for you, or would you like to  
> download
> and install them by hand?
> [auto-download] [I'll do it]
>
> Thats it. I think setuptools provides that functionality at this  
> point.
> Am I wrong?
>
> Key is that there is a default way to download an egg, click on it,
> select all the defaults in a series of dialogs, and get your package
> installed.

Building such a gui would be straightforward if setuptools had the  
hooks to do so. Last time I checked setuptools had some hooks, but  
isn't capable of playing nice with a GUI event loop.

My guess is that it is much more convenient to build a very shallow  
wrapper around easy_install, basicly just a window with a textbox  
where you can enter an easy_install command-line and larger textview  
to show the output of easy_install. Double-clicking on an egg can  
open this window with the right command-line filled in.

Ronald
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From rowen at cesmail.net  Tue Oct  3 19:26:37 2006
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 10:26:37 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
References: <97E9D1F2-C60F-4349-97CE-644183059E8A@airmail.net>
	<6a36e7290609220951w49e14a65oe649214183776d95@mail.gmail.com>
	<70F42318-DE8E-4804-98A3-AD2AFF16E7F5@laposte.net>
	<D95C7787-3F50-45AB-A695-9CB793B0DCE1@mac.com>
	<826654B5-B74A-4727-BDFA-0A5EFF8AA302@laposte.net>
	<6a36e7290609271035v1ad1fd63t6fb45dd713f566e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C624ACF-55CE-460E-AA56-F48129B11CBE@laposte.net>
	<45216370.1040309@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290610021224p2fb501b7j9a20b168ee856787@mail.gmail.com>
	<EFCFC20F-8488-47E3-9B37-8B69BD6398CF@laposte.net>
	<6a36e7290610031009o1e45cfcer1510e0a92ede9a38@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <rowen-40E620.10263703102006@sea.gmane.org>

In article 
<6a36e7290610031009o1e45cfcer1510e0a92ede9a38 at mail.gmail.com>,
 "Bob Ippolito" <bob at redivi.com> wrote:

>...
> There are options with easy_install to do all of these things. I'm
> pretty sure there's an option to download packages without installing
> them that people use to download the eggs (e.g. for transfer to
> another machine or archival), and there's an option to use a
> filesystem path instead of the internet for installing packages.

I hope so. I would love to be able to install packages from egg files, 
as it could simplify some local code development and distribution. I 
tried to figure out how to do it from the easy_install manual (which I 
do not find very clear) and gave up.

-- Russell


From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Tue Oct  3 19:27:19 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 19:27:19 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
In-Reply-To: <rowen-FB951F.10184303102006@sea.gmane.org>
References: <97E9D1F2-C60F-4349-97CE-644183059E8A@airmail.net>
	<8c7f10c60609220923u87fa311v9e78dd210dc320@mail.gmail.com>
	<45141343.5020200@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290609220951w49e14a65oe649214183776d95@mail.gmail.com>
	<70F42318-DE8E-4804-98A3-AD2AFF16E7F5@laposte.net>
	<D95C7787-3F50-45AB-A695-9CB793B0DCE1@mac.com>
	<826654B5-B74A-4727-BDFA-0A5EFF8AA302@laposte.net>
	<6a36e7290609271035v1ad1fd63t6fb45dd713f566e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C624ACF-55CE-460E-AA56-F48129B11CBE@laposte.net>
	<45216370.1040309@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290610021224p2fb501b7j9a20b168ee856787@mail.gmail.com>
	<944F3206-A1B1-4F56-8AF3-683BB7815EFB@mac.com>
	<rowen-FB951F.10184303102006@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1ACDAB1E-6C4B-4557-812D-8D03262848DD@mac.com>


On Oct 3, 2006, at 7:18 PM, Russell E. Owen wrote:

> In article <944F3206-A1B1-4F56-8AF3-683BB7815EFB at mac.com>,
>  Ronald Oussoren <ronaldoussoren at mac.com> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 2, 2006, at 9:24 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> PyObjC, wxPython, Tk, all need to be installed correctly before
>>>> they can
>>>> be used.
>>
>> On 10.4 Tk is already installed and could be used, it has appearently
>> has issues but an egg frontend could be kept simple enough to work
>> around those.
>
> I agree. The installed Tcl/Tk 8.4.7 is perfectly adequate for  
> something
> like this. (Using PyObjC could probably make more Mac-standard
> interface, but if Bob feels uncomfortable including that in MacPython
> then Tcl/Tk does seem like the obvious choice.)

*I* don't want to include PyObjC in the standard MacPython  
distribution just yet.

Ronald

>
> -- Russell
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig

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From rowen at cesmail.net  Tue Oct  3 19:28:44 2006
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 10:28:44 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Are python extensions compatible between 32 and
	64 bit Macs?
References: <rowen-403913.11102702102006@sea.gmane.org>
	<6a36e7290610021128q43aadfb0u57eef17416d7e295@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <rowen-C4FAEA.10284403102006@sea.gmane.org>

In article 
<6a36e7290610021128q43aadfb0u57eef17416d7e295 at mail.gmail.com>,
 "Bob Ippolito" <bob at redivi.com> wrote:

> On 10/2/06, Russell E. Owen <rowen at cesmail.net> wrote:
> > Will C extensions to Python that are built on 64 bit Macs (such as the
> > new iMacs) will work on 32 bit Macs, and visa versa?
> 
> Definitely if the universal binary distribution for Python 2.5 or
> 2.4.3 are used, because it explicitly compiles for (32-bit) i386 and
> ppc only.

Thanks!

I wonder what folks who want 64-bit numpy are going to do. But my own 
code doesn't need it, so I'm happy.

-- Russell


From njriley at uiuc.edu  Tue Oct  3 19:33:36 2006
From: njriley at uiuc.edu (Nicholas Riley)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 12:33:36 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
In-Reply-To: <9F20976C-11D3-4E3E-B02C-6BA1A8DB5192@mac.com>
References: <7F5EDC34-54B5-45D6-A098-C59FB7ED7ACB@conncoll.edu>
	<45228ED6.8060104@noaa.gov>
	<9F20976C-11D3-4E3E-B02C-6BA1A8DB5192@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20061003173336.GB47248@uiuc.edu>

On Tue, Oct 03, 2006 at 07:24:24PM +0200, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
> My guess is that it is much more convenient to build a very shallow  
> wrapper around easy_install, basicly just a window with a textbox  
> where you can enter an easy_install command-line and larger textview  
> to show the output of easy_install. Double-clicking on an egg can  
> open this window with the right command-line filled in.

Or it could just build a .term file and launch Terminal with it.  That
should be good enough, I think, and you don't have to worry if
something weird happens because there'd be a fully capable terminal
with which the user can interact.

-- 
Nicholas Riley <njriley at uiuc.edu> | <http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/njriley>

From bob at redivi.com  Tue Oct  3 19:38:34 2006
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 10:38:34 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
In-Reply-To: <45228ED6.8060104@noaa.gov>
References: <7F5EDC34-54B5-45D6-A098-C59FB7ED7ACB@conncoll.edu>
	<45228ED6.8060104@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290610031038k12def08tfdb1766b9440c8aa@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/3/06, Christopher Barker <Chris.Barker at noaa.gov> wrote:
> Charles Hartman wrote:
> > Bob Ippolito said:
> >> Users currently need some familiarity with Terminal in order to get
> >> anything done with Python anyway.
>
> > But hasn't there been real progress toward making that not true? And
> >  isn't that a good thing? Can't Python be an OSX programming
> > enrivonment rather than (as well as) a Darwin one?
>
> Exactly. Heck, for lots of packages:
>
> $ sudo python setup.py install
>
> works fine too, but I still think it's worth building mpkgs of those.

The big difference is that easy_install goes ahead and downloads the
latest version for you in the same step. No download and unpacking.
You can even point it at the URL of a tarball and it will do this for
you...

> It seems to me that that the community on this list has shared the goal
> of making Python on OS-X as easy to use and "mac-like" as possible.
> That's why we have the repository of binary packages on pythonmac.org.
>
> So far, it appears the easiest way to make a package easy to install for
> a mac user is to make a *.mpgk of it. In fact, I've advocated for years
> that the best way to make python accessible on all platforms if to have
> packages in a "native" format -- that means rpms on rpm based linux
> systems, MS installers for windows, and mpkgs for the Mac.

No argument about this currently being the easiest way.

The problem with native packages is that there is no good way to make
a database with dependencies and have packages automatically get
installed. This prevents Python developers from making or using small
libraries, instead they want to throw everything in one package so
that the dependency tree is very small. That is bad for Python.
setuptools + Cheese Shop fixes this problem.

> However, Apple has not provided us with a full-featured package
> management system. So we are faced with either kludging around its
> limitations, or using something else as the default way to distribute
> packages for OS-X. Right now, setuptools is really the only other option.

Even if they did we'd still be going the setuptools route, but perhaps
easy_install would use the package management system in the process.

> In fact, at this point, there is at least one important package that
> isn't available as a *.mpkg (Py2App). People need to install the Python
> package, then go find an easy-install script somewhere, install it, then
> use it to install py2app. This really isn't a huge deal, but it is too
> much for the "casual mac user" -- it took me a little poking around to
> figure out, which is way too much for anyone that is new to python and
> the whole command line thing.
>
> Shouldn't there at least be a package for easy-install itself?

Probably, but it's not totally trivial to build a correct one, so I
don't. I don't have the need or time to look into it. You only have to
install it once, then you can "easy_install -U setuptools" to upgrade
whenever necessary.

> Ronald Oussoren wrote:
> > I'm rather happy with setuptools, there are some cosmetic problems
> > (like the header-file thingy), but the core seems pretty well thought
> > out.
>
> > This features is apparently also on the list for the 0.7 release (but
> > not yet implemented).
>
> Which reinforces that setuptools is a good option to pursue.
>
> > I'm -0 on this. Easy-install is very convenient and I wish it were part
> > of Python 2.5 but it isn't. MacPython is at this point in time "just"
> > the official binary distribution of the python.org tree.
> >
> > Growing it beyond that (that is include third party libraries and tools)
> > could be useful, but even then I'd be more inclined towards adding
> > useful GUI tools than libraries.
>
> Which is what I'm talking about. I don't agree that "MacPython is at
> this point in time "just" the official binary distribution of the
> python.org tree". I've certainly got the impression that the goal is to
> make Python work smoothly and "natively" on the Mac. I suppose the only
> real additions are the pythonw (now called python) front end and a
> little tweaking of shell start-up scripts, but those are important.

MacPython is exactly what's in the Python svn tree and nothing more
(beyond dependencies). That's all Ronald is saying. There is 0 lines
of code that doesn't live at svn.python.org.

> Maybe installing setuptools by default is the thin end of the wedge, but
> I think it's critical that we do have a standard and easy way for people
> to install packages.
>
> setuptools is still a bit of a mystery to me, but I'm still confused as
> to why it is more than trivial to make a small gui that will:
>
> Pop up a dialog when you click on a *.egg, with a message like:
>
> Would you like to install the python package: blah-blah-blah:
> [install] [cancel]
>
> if [install] is clicked, it would ask for the admin password, then
> install the package.
>
> If dependencies are required, it would pop up another dialog:
>
> The following other packages are required to install this one. Would you
> like these to be auto-downloaded for you, or would you like to download
> and install them by hand?
> [auto-download] [I'll do it]
>
> Thats it. I think setuptools provides that functionality at this point.
> Am I wrong?

setuptools provides this functionality, but the starting point is
typically the name of a package not an egg file. So the GUI app would
also have to provide a Cheese Shop browser.

> Key is that there is a default way to download an egg, click on it,
> select all the defaults in a series of dialogs, and get your package
> installed.

The series of dialogs is what makes the GUI difficult. easy_install is
not currently built in a way that makes all of those hooks available.
It doesn't have dialogs at the console level at all, just output.

You'd either have to duplicate or rewrite a large chunk of what
easy_install does to get it to do GUI stuff. It's just too much work
for too little gain at this point, especially when setuptools is a
moving target. You'd really have to care a whole hell of a lot and be
willing to put a lot of effort and coordination into the task. I
definitely don't, because I wouldn't use it even if it existed. Using
easy_install from the console is always going to be faster and easier
for anyone who is at all comfortable with typing "sudo easy_install
SomePackage" and pressing return.

-bob

From hengist.podd at virgin.net  Tue Oct  3 23:49:59 2006
From: hengist.podd at virgin.net (has)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 22:49:59 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2647.1159896090.10490.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
References: <mailman.2647.1159896090.10490.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
Message-ID: <1F0BC034-53DF-4334-B6B8-603A0C5A8297@virgin.net>

Charles Hartman wrote:

>> Using easy_install is quite easy -- you type "easy_install
>> WhatYouNeed" and press return. That's it. Users currently need some
>> familiarity with Terminal in order to get anything done with Python
>> anyway.
>
> But hasn't there been real progress toward making that not true?  
> And isn't that a good thing? Can't Python be an OSX programming  
> enrivonment rather than (as well as) a Darwin one?
>
> I suppose the simple way would be a tiny Applescript drag-and-drop  
> that just called easy_install . . .

I already wrote a quick-n-dirty Studio frontend to distutils;  
wouldn't be hard to add egg support to that:

http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/Distutils-GUI-1.2.1.dmg.gz

Lacks a little polish, mind you - it'd present better if it was an  
all-in-one solution, rather than firing up Terminal to run distutils  
and display the installation log.

HTH

has
-- 
http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/
http://appscript.sourceforge.net



From konrad.hinsen at laposte.net  Wed Oct  4 09:28:43 2006
From: konrad.hinsen at laposte.net (konrad.hinsen at laposte.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 09:28:43 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
In-Reply-To: <C216C875-7552-485C-AE1E-7C8FD33EC4C7@mac.com>
References: <97E9D1F2-C60F-4349-97CE-644183059E8A@airmail.net>
	<8c7f10c60609220923u87fa311v9e78dd210dc320@mail.gmail.com>
	<45141343.5020200@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290609220951w49e14a65oe649214183776d95@mail.gmail.com>
	<70F42318-DE8E-4804-98A3-AD2AFF16E7F5@laposte.net>
	<D95C7787-3F50-45AB-A695-9CB793B0DCE1@mac.com>
	<826654B5-B74A-4727-BDFA-0A5EFF8AA302@laposte.net>
	<6a36e7290609271035v1ad1fd63t6fb45dd713f566e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C624ACF-55CE-460E-AA56-F48129B11CBE@laposte.net>
	<45216370.1040309@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290610021224p2fb501b7j9a20b168ee856787@mail.gmail.com>
	<EFCFC20F-8488-47E3-9B37-8B69BD6398CF@laposte.net>
	<C216C875-7552-485C-AE1E-7C8FD33EC4C7@mac.com>
Message-ID: <A9198355-1DD6-4546-8BCB-416CF4EA73B0@laposte.net>

On 03.10.2006, at 12:43, Ronald Oussoren wrote:

> I have a patch for setuptools 0.7 that includes header files in  
> eggs and ensures that other setuptools-aware packages see those  
> during build_ext. PJE has indicated that something like this will  
> be added to setuptools in 0.7 timeframe.

That's good news. I will look at setuptools again when 0.7 is out.

> I'm rather happy with setuptools, there are some cosmetic problems  
> (like the header-file thingy), but the core seems pretty well  
> thought out. The main

I wouldn't call that a cosmetic problem. It probably affects few  
packages, but for those it is a showstopper.

Konrad.


From konrad.hinsen at laposte.net  Wed Oct  4 09:35:21 2006
From: konrad.hinsen at laposte.net (konrad.hinsen at laposte.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 09:35:21 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
In-Reply-To: <6a36e7290610031009o1e45cfcer1510e0a92ede9a38@mail.gmail.com>
References: <97E9D1F2-C60F-4349-97CE-644183059E8A@airmail.net>
	<6a36e7290609220951w49e14a65oe649214183776d95@mail.gmail.com>
	<70F42318-DE8E-4804-98A3-AD2AFF16E7F5@laposte.net>
	<D95C7787-3F50-45AB-A695-9CB793B0DCE1@mac.com>
	<826654B5-B74A-4727-BDFA-0A5EFF8AA302@laposte.net>
	<6a36e7290609271035v1ad1fd63t6fb45dd713f566e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C624ACF-55CE-460E-AA56-F48129B11CBE@laposte.net>
	<45216370.1040309@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290610021224p2fb501b7j9a20b168ee856787@mail.gmail.com>
	<EFCFC20F-8488-47E3-9B37-8B69BD6398CF@laposte.net>
	<6a36e7290610031009o1e45cfcer1510e0a92ede9a38@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2E41FD5F-A376-41F5-AB6C-8D57250C7DD6@laposte.net>

On 03.10.2006, at 19:09, Bob Ippolito wrote:

>> Therefore, if it is possible to download and install eggs manually,
>> then I am sure there would be a client base for a GUI-based installer
>> associated with .egg files.
>
> It's still very atypical. You'd be coding a GUI client that three  
> people use.

I don't know. It is very hard to say what is "typical" without some  
hard data. In my immediate work environment I already see very  
different habits in installingh software, ranging from the PhD  
student who administrates his own PC as he likes to a large paranoid  
research lab where only one person is allowed to install software  
downloaded from the Internet.

> There are options with easy_install to do all of these things. I'm
> pretty sure there's an option to download packages without installing
> them that people use to download the eggs (e.g. for transfer to
> another machine or archival), and there's an option to use a
> filesystem path instead of the internet for installing packages.

That sounds fine. Still, there is always a need for GUI installers in  
my opinion.

> Any other problems you have you should report to distutils-sig so that
> they get fixed. It's definitely not going to get any less popular, so
> you're going to have to live with setuptools.

As long as there are no plans to abandon the standard distutils  
installation, I feel safe... and I can't find any other problems with  
setuptools before the one that blocks my packages (all of them) is  
solved.

Konrad.


From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Wed Oct  4 09:51:44 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 09:51:44 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Why Do I Explicitly Need MacPython
In-Reply-To: <A9198355-1DD6-4546-8BCB-416CF4EA73B0@laposte.net>
References: <97E9D1F2-C60F-4349-97CE-644183059E8A@airmail.net>
	<8c7f10c60609220923u87fa311v9e78dd210dc320@mail.gmail.com>
	<45141343.5020200@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290609220951w49e14a65oe649214183776d95@mail.gmail.com>
	<70F42318-DE8E-4804-98A3-AD2AFF16E7F5@laposte.net>
	<D95C7787-3F50-45AB-A695-9CB793B0DCE1@mac.com>
	<826654B5-B74A-4727-BDFA-0A5EFF8AA302@laposte.net>
	<6a36e7290609271035v1ad1fd63t6fb45dd713f566e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C624ACF-55CE-460E-AA56-F48129B11CBE@laposte.net>
	<45216370.1040309@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290610021224p2fb501b7j9a20b168ee856787@mail.gmail.com>
	<EFCFC20F-8488-47E3-9B37-8B69BD6398CF@laposte.net>
	<C216C875-7552-485C-AE1E-7C8FD33EC4C7@mac.com>
	<A9198355-1DD6-4546-8BCB-416CF4EA73B0@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <9817256.1159948304367.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>

 
On Wednesday, October 04, 2006, at 09:28AM, <konrad.hinsen at laposte.net> wrote:

>On 03.10.2006, at 12:43, Ronald Oussoren wrote:

>
>> I'm rather happy with setuptools, there are some cosmetic problems  
>> (like the header-file thingy), but the core seems pretty well  
>> thought out. The main
>
>I wouldn't call that a cosmetic problem. It probably affects few  
>packages, but for those it is a showstopper.

You're right, but it is a rather shallow problem. I had implemented a fix for that within the hour, without having looked at the setuptools source before. There are probably more little wringles like those and some of those will be showstoppers for some people.

Ronald


From M.Laloux at mrw.wallonie.be  Wed Oct  4 10:06:31 2006
From: M.Laloux at mrw.wallonie.be (LALOUX Martin)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 10:06:31 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE (and others),
	2.4.3 and Tkinter solution (for me)
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20061004092512.02d58c08@pop.promibra.intra.mrw.wallonie.be>

I work on 10.3.9 and since i upgrade to python 2.4.3 universal, i cannot 
run IDLE without freezing but also other apps like mayavi that I must use 
in my work.
Ronald Oussoren writes "but IDLE in MacPython 2.4   doesn't work for me 
after all. I'm seeing the same behaviour as you:   IDLE starts, but hangs 
immediately "


For people like me who cannot update to Tiger (work, money....)  I found a 
solution :
noting that this problem did not exist with macpython 2.4.1, I replace the 
Tkinter.so of 2.4.3 by the one of 2.4.1 and no more problem : all works 
perfectly

Martin

Martin Laloux Dr Sc.
Geologue
Universit? Catholique de Louvain
D?tach? au M.R.W. - DGRNE
Cellule g?ologie
Division de la Pr?vention et des Autorisations
15, avenue Prince de Li?ge
B-5100 Namur
t?l. : 081 / 33 61 24
fax : 081 / 33 61 22
  mailto:M.Laloux at mrw.wallonie.be
http://environnement.wallonie.be/cartosig/cartegeologique

________________________________________________________________

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From senn at maya.com  Wed Oct  4 03:58:34 2006
From: senn at maya.com (Jeff Senn)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 21:58:34 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] bugs in _Qtmodule
Message-ID: <9C435809-53D9-4C54-8D7E-93A2EEFC7F0B@maya.com>


While attempting to use the QuickTime sequence grabber
interfaces from Python I notice that there is some
confusion between Component and ComponentInstance
in _Qtmodule.c.

I believe most of the instances of "CmpObj_{Convert,New}"
in _Qtmodule should actually be "CmpInstObj_{Convert,New}"
(There are a few that are correctly CmpObj_...)

I have a (moderately tested) patch...

-Jas
[Please CC relevant replies to me directly
as I don't read the list regularly]


From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl  Wed Oct  4 11:12:43 2006
From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 11:12:43 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] bugs in _Qtmodule
In-Reply-To: <9C435809-53D9-4C54-8D7E-93A2EEFC7F0B@maya.com>
References: <9C435809-53D9-4C54-8D7E-93A2EEFC7F0B@maya.com>
Message-ID: <240AFD83-C37B-492A-A80F-7BEF6D2FF5E3@cwi.nl>


On 4-okt-2006, at 3:58, Jeff Senn wrote:

>
> While attempting to use the QuickTime sequence grabber
> interfaces from Python I notice that there is some
> confusion between Component and ComponentInstance
> in _Qtmodule.c.
>
> I believe most of the instances of "CmpObj_{Convert,New}"
> in _Qtmodule should actually be "CmpInstObj_{Convert,New}"
> (There are a few that are correctly CmpObj_...)
>
> I have a (moderately tested) patch...

A patch won't help much, because _Qtmodule is generated (through  
qtscan.py/qtsupport.py). I assume that there's a one-line mistake in  
qtsupport, which leads to one C type being handled as CmpObj in stead  
of CmpInstObj.

Hmm, well at least the patch will contain that information, I guess.  
Could you put it on sourceforge and assign it to me?
--
Jack Jansen, <Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl>, http://www.cwi.nl/~jack
If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma  
Goldman


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From senn at maya.com  Wed Oct  4 16:04:55 2006
From: senn at maya.com (Jeff Senn)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 10:04:55 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] bugs in _Qtmodule
In-Reply-To: <240AFD83-C37B-492A-A80F-7BEF6D2FF5E3@cwi.nl>
References: <9C435809-53D9-4C54-8D7E-93A2EEFC7F0B@maya.com>
	<240AFD83-C37B-492A-A80F-7BEF6D2FF5E3@cwi.nl>
Message-ID: <921C49CA-0D08-4E83-9C87-82838DF3861F@maya.com>


On Oct 4, 2006, at 5:12 AM, Jack Jansen wrote:

>
> A patch won't help much, because _Qtmodule is generated (through  
> qtscan.py/qtsupport.py). I assume that there's a one-line mistake  
> in qtsupport, which leads to one C type being handled as CmpObj in  
> stead of CmpInstObj.

Ah, I see. Yes a bunch of lines in qtsupport.py....

> Hmm, well at least the patch will contain that information, I  
> guess. Could you put it on sourceforge and assign it to me?

I'll sourceforge the patch to qtsupport.py; it's obvious.


-Jas



From heafnerj at sticksandshadows.com  Wed Oct  4 19:44:49 2006
From: heafnerj at sticksandshadows.com (Joe Heafner)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 13:44:49 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] porting VPython to OS X
Message-ID: <F2238450-4A71-4204-AF5A-276770BCFC82@sticksandshadows.com>

Hello.

I'm an astronomy/physics instructor who makes heavy use of VPython  
(http://www.vpython.org) in teaching introductory calculus-based  
physics. Currently, the only way to use VPython under OS X is via  
Fink, which indeed works very well. However, we *REALLY? need a  
native OS X port that can run without the need for X11. Neither I nor  
the original VPython developers are Mac programmers and therein lies  
the purpose of my request. Is there a kind soul out there who would  
be willing to port VPython so that it runs with the latest Mac native  
version of Python (currently 2.5 afaik)? I would be most willing to  
help with testing and anything else not related to writing Mac code,  
which I currently just can't do. You would be helping the physics  
teaching community as well as the Mac and Python communities and  
there would certainly be undying gratitude from all of us! If you're  
willing to help us out, contact me on list or off list (email in  
sig). I would really appreciate it!

Joe Heafner
heafnerj(at)sticksandshadows(dot)com
www(dot)SticksAndShadows(dot)com




From halamillo at wsu.edu  Thu Oct  5 17:35:13 2006
From: halamillo at wsu.edu (halamillo)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 08:35:13 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help loading a module
Message-ID: <B123FCB2-D457-4062-BDAE-F75F879FAC05@wsu.edu>



Newbie BioGrad student here (again):

First, thanks for the help on the root node variable last time. It was
most helpful!

Now, I am trying to load a new module into MacPython, but after doing $
python setup.py install, or $ python setup.py build, then $ python
setup.py

the files on the module I downloaded are the following:

DEVELOPERS      Legal.htm       PKG-INFO        Src
customize.py    rpm_build.sh
Demo            Lib             Packages        Test
makeclean.sh    rpm_install.sh
INSTALL         MANIFEST        README          build
makedist.bat    setup.cfg
Include         Misc            RPM.README      changes.txt
makedist.sh     setup.py


The INSTALL file says I don't need to configure the module if I'm  
running
versions greater than OSX, which I am, but when I run the setup file in
the last line of a bunch of erros it tells me the gcc failed.


Thanks again for your help. You guys rock.


Hugo Alamillo
Biological Sciences
265 Eastlick
PO Box 644236
Washington State University
Pullman, WA 99164





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From konrad.hinsen at laposte.net  Thu Oct  5 18:26:53 2006
From: konrad.hinsen at laposte.net (Konrad Hinsen)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 18:26:53 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] porting VPython to OS X
In-Reply-To: <F2238450-4A71-4204-AF5A-276770BCFC82@sticksandshadows.com>
References: <F2238450-4A71-4204-AF5A-276770BCFC82@sticksandshadows.com>
Message-ID: <D01A52E5-12EB-48DB-B18B-F609C48A9B41@laposte.net>

On Oct 4, 2006, at 19:44, Joe Heafner wrote:

> I'm an astronomy/physics instructor who makes heavy use of VPython
> (http://www.vpython.org) in teaching introductory calculus-based
> physics. Currently, the only way to use VPython under OS X is via
> Fink, which indeed works very well. However, we *REALLY? need a
> native OS X port that can run without the need for X11. Neither I nor
> the original VPython developers are Mac programmers and therein lies

I am not enough of a Mac expert to be of any help, nor do I have time  
for such projects at the moment. Nevertheless, I would like to  
express my moral support to your request - VPython is a terrific tool  
that would be great to have in a native version on the Mac.

Konrad (physicist)


From bob at redivi.com  Thu Oct  5 18:32:22 2006
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 09:32:22 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help loading a module
In-Reply-To: <B123FCB2-D457-4062-BDAE-F75F879FAC05@wsu.edu>
References: <B123FCB2-D457-4062-BDAE-F75F879FAC05@wsu.edu>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290610050932n6ba92574u96c362785d066710@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/5/06, halamillo <halamillo at wsu.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> Newbie BioGrad student here (again):
>
> First, thanks for the help on the root node variable last time. It was
> most helpful!
>
> Now, I am trying to load a new module into MacPython, but after doing $
> python setup.py install, or $ python setup.py build, then $ python
> setup.py
>
> the files on the module I downloaded are the following:
>
> DEVELOPERS      Legal.htm       PKG-INFO        Src
> customize.py    rpm_build.sh
> Demo            Lib             Packages        Test
> makeclean.sh    rpm_install.sh
> INSTALL         MANIFEST        README          build
> makedist.bat    setup.cfg
> Include         Misc            RPM.README      changes.txt
> makedist.sh     setup.py
>
>
> The INSTALL file says I don't need to configure the module if I'm running
> versions greater than OSX, which I am, but when I run the setup file in
> the last line of a bunch of erros it tells me the gcc failed.

Your error report doesn't really any any information in it. How about:

1. What version of Python you're using
2. What version of Mac OS X you're using
3. Some clue as to what the heck, specifically, you're trying to install
4. Actual error messages!

-bob

From delza at livingcode.org  Thu Oct  5 18:57:37 2006
From: delza at livingcode.org (Dethe Elza)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 09:57:37 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] porting VPython to OS X
In-Reply-To: <F2238450-4A71-4204-AF5A-276770BCFC82@sticksandshadows.com>
References: <F2238450-4A71-4204-AF5A-276770BCFC82@sticksandshadows.com>
Message-ID: <2C02B630-EB0C-4513-8F6E-B5870B9EF8A4@livingcode.org>

I have tried to work on this in the past and would be willing to help  
again.  My main problem is with the build environment.  If I can get  
it to build consistently, I can write the bits that are needed for OS  
X.  What I need is someone who understands autoconf better than I  
do.  Do you know of *anyone* who has been able to build the latest  
beta versions of VPython on OS X, even with Fink and X?

--Dethe


On 4-Oct-06, at 10:44 AM, Joe Heafner wrote:

> Hello.
>
> I'm an astronomy/physics instructor who makes heavy use of VPython
> (http://www.vpython.org) in teaching introductory calculus-based
> physics. Currently, the only way to use VPython under OS X is via
> Fink, which indeed works very well. However, we *REALLY? need a
> native OS X port that can run without the need for X11. Neither I nor
> the original VPython developers are Mac programmers and therein lies
> the purpose of my request. Is there a kind soul out there who would
> be willing to port VPython so that it runs with the latest Mac native
> version of Python (currently 2.5 afaik)? I would be most willing to
> help with testing and anything else not related to writing Mac code,
> which I currently just can't do. You would be helping the physics
> teaching community as well as the Mac and Python communities and
> there would certainly be undying gratitude from all of us! If you're
> willing to help us out, contact me on list or off list (email in
> sig). I would really appreciate it!
>
> Joe Heafner
> heafnerj(at)sticksandshadows(dot)com
> www(dot)SticksAndShadows(dot)com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig


Windows has detected the mouse has moved. Please restart your system  
for changes to take effect.



From cwmoad at gmail.com  Tue Oct 10 21:47:22 2006
From: cwmoad at gmail.com (Charlie Moad)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:47:22 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [Matplotlib-users] Installation Problems on Mac
	OS X
In-Reply-To: <452BD39D.1050504@umit.maine.edu>
References: <452A6C84.3090102@umit.maine.edu>
	<fc.3b9aca005b4669d63b9aca003295a5e9.2c86e45b@umit.maine.edu>
	<452BD39D.1050504@umit.maine.edu>
Message-ID: <6382066a0610101247v2258986dp5673e3a314641403@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/10/06, R. Padraic Springuel <R.Springuel at umit.maine.edu> wrote:
> I haven't tried the binaries because there isn't one for python 2.5 and
> Mac OS 10.4 (the particular combination that I have).  I could use the
> binaries if I went back to python 2.4, but I'm trying avoid that if
> possible.

So actually there is a build for you... actually two.  I built
"matplotlib-0.87.6-py2.5-macosx-10.3-fat.egg" with python2.5 on OS
10.4.  For some strange reason setuptools or distutils tags it with
10.3.  It might be because the build targets to 10.3.9 SDK, so it
should be compatible with 10.3.9 and up.
"matplotlib-0.87.6-py2.5-macosx10.4.zip" is the exact same build but
bundled with bdist_mpkg.  It is understanding how this is confusing.
I am cc'ing the pythonmac-sig list to see if someone can better
explain the thought process behind this.

- Charlie

From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov  Wed Oct 11 23:55:51 2006
From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Christopher Barker)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:55:51 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [Fwd: Re: [Matplotlib-users] Installation Problems
	on Mac OS X]
Message-ID: <452D6867.4030305@noaa.gov>

> -------- Original Message --------
> From: R. Padraic Springuel <R.Springuel at umit.maine.edu>
> To: Matplotlib User Support <matplotlib-users at lists.sourceforge.net>
> 
> Oh, and I tried downloading the .egg file to install, but for some 
> reason my Mac wants to open the file with Excel, which is obviously 
> wrong.  How exactly do you use a .egg file as a binary installer?

Which is why it would be nice to have an "egg handler", no matter how 
simple.

-Chris




-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                     		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chris.Barker at noaa.gov

From bob at redivi.com  Thu Oct 12 00:16:59 2006
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:16:59 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [Fwd: Re: [Matplotlib-users] Installation
	Problems on Mac OS X]
In-Reply-To: <452D6867.4030305@noaa.gov>
References: <452D6867.4030305@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290610111516v691e70bh10d88b6109ef60fe@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/11/06, Christopher Barker <Chris.Barker at noaa.gov> wrote:
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > From: R. Padraic Springuel <R.Springuel at umit.maine.edu>
> > To: Matplotlib User Support <matplotlib-users at lists.sourceforge.net>
> >
> > Oh, and I tried downloading the .egg file to install, but for some
> > reason my Mac wants to open the file with Excel, which is obviously
> > wrong.  How exactly do you use a .egg file as a binary installer?
>
> Which is why it would be nice to have an "egg handler", no matter how
> simple.

$ easy_install url_or_path_to_egg

-bob

From hengist.podd at virgin.net  Thu Oct 12 00:50:02 2006
From: hengist.podd at virgin.net (has)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 23:50:02 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [OT] [ann] Ruby appscript 0.1.1 released
Message-ID: <12B0CA12-A7A9-423E-B409-BA86565B4C93@virgin.net>

Hi folks,

Just to let you know that Phase Two of my grand plan for world  
domination has now begun:

http://rb-appscript.rubyforge.org/

Sharks with laser beams are sure to follow.

has
-- 
http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/
http://appscript.sourceforge.net
http://rb-appscript.rubyforge.org


From loredo at astro.cornell.edu  Thu Oct 12 05:41:36 2006
From: loredo at astro.cornell.edu (Tom Loredo)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 23:41:36 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] gcc/fortran compilers for building extensions with
	Tiger/MacPython
Message-ID: <1160624496.452db970f0f63@astrosun2.astro.cornell.edu>


Hi folks,

I've just upgraded my G4 (PPC) from Pather to Tiger, and just
installed MacPython.  I now need to build a slew of numerical extensions.
I'm building them from source (I have lots of custom extensions
to build from source in any case).  I see the binaries available
for Tiger are built with gcc 3.3 for PPC and gcc 4 for Intel; I
think they may be tied to ActivePython but I'm not sure.  When
I start MacPython, I see it is built with gcc 4.  Is this what
I should be using?  I'll also be compiling fortran extensions;
I presume I should use gfortran rather than g77 for this (g77
is what worked with gcc 3.3).  Is this correct?

Thanks,
Tom



-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/

From delza at livingcode.org  Thu Oct 12 06:49:55 2006
From: delza at livingcode.org (Dethe Elza)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 21:49:55 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
Message-ID: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>

Hi folks,

I'm switching to to a recent py2app and moving to use setuptools- 
based builds instead of distutils.  I've had several problems, but  
since I've been coding here and there in spare moments (including on  
the bus in the mornings), I haven't done a very good job of  
documenting them, I'm afraid.

I do have one persistent problem building both apps and plugins,  
which is that the settings I add to my plist don't appear in the  
resulting app/Contents/Info.plist.  After much hair-pulling I think  
that is the source of many of the weird problems I've been seeing.   
For example, with the following setup:

from setuptools import setup
setup(
     plugin=['PastelsView.py'],
     setup_requires=['py2app'],
     options=dict(
         py2app=dict(
             extension='.saver',
             plist = dict(
                 NSPrincipalClass='PastelsView',
                 CFBundleShortVersionString = 'Pastels 0.3',
                 CFBBundleDisplayName = 'Pastels',
                 CFBundleIdentifier =  
'org.livingcode.applications.pastels',
             )
         )
     )
)

I end up with an Info.plist that has the following:

CFBundleIdentifier = org.pythonmac.unspecified.PastelsView
CFBundleDisplayName = PastelsView
CFBundleName = PastelsView
NSPrincipalClass = PastelsView

So it does end up with the right principal class, but other values  
are wrong, and the principal class appears to be set correctly more  
because that is the name of the script file than because I set it  
explicitly. In another program the app failed to pick up its icon  
from the plist specifier CFBundleIconFile, but successfully got the  
icon when I added iconfile in the py2app options.

When I try to load the above screensaver I get the console messages:

'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/Users/delza/Library/Screen Savers/PastelsView.saver/ 
Contents/Resources/__boot__.py", line 7, in ?
     _disable_linecache()
   File "/Users/delza/Library/Screen Savers/PastelsView.saver/ 
Contents/Resources/__boot__.py", line 2, in _disable_linecache
     import linecache
ImportError: No module named linecache
2006-10-11 21:19:00.209 System Preferences[382] PastelsView has  
encountered a fatal error, and will now terminate.
2006-10-11 21:19:00.209 System Preferences[382] An uncaught exception  
was raised during execution of the main script:

ImportError: No module named linecache

This may mean that an unexpected error has occurred, or that you do  
not have all of the dependencies for this bundle.
2006-10-11 21:19:00.210 System Preferences[382] ScreenSaverModules:  
can't get principalClass for /Users/delza/Library/Screen Savers/ 
PastelsView.saver


Details:

Python 2.4.3
PyObjC pyobjc-1.4.1a0 installed with "python setup.py bdist_mpkg --open"
py2app 0.3.4
Setuptools 0.7a1dev_r51485
OS X 10.4.7 (Intel)

Code for the screensaver available from Google Code: http:// 
code.google.com/p/pastels/source

Code works from the command-line (not built into a bundle) with my  
test harness.  The linecache module is in place, the message that it  
is missing is spurious.

When I change the Info.plist by hand to reflect the desired bundle  
name (Pastels) I still see it as PastelsView, and it still fails to  
load, so I'm obviously missing something important.  If anyone has a  
clue as to what I'm doing wrong, please let me know.

If there's any other information that would be helfpul, please let me  
know.

Thanks!

--Dethe

All space and matter, organic or inorganic, has some degree of life  
in it [...] All matter/space has some degree of "self" in it.  If  
either of these claims comes, in future, to be considered true, that  
would radically change our picture of the universe.  --Christopher  
Alexander



From jrus at hcs.harvard.edu  Thu Oct 12 07:18:10 2006
From: jrus at hcs.harvard.edu (Jacob Rus)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 01:18:10 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [Fwd: Re: [Matplotlib-users] Installation
 Problems on Mac OS X]
In-Reply-To: <6a36e7290610111516v691e70bh10d88b6109ef60fe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <452D6867.4030305@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290610111516v691e70bh10d88b6109ef60fe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <egkj6i$uuv$1@sea.gmane.org>

>> Which is why it would be nice to have an "egg handler", no matter how
>> simple.
> 
> $ easy_install url_or_path_to_egg

Wouldn't it be pretty easy to wrap that in an Easy Install.app?

-Jacob


From bob at redivi.com  Thu Oct 12 12:01:21 2006
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 03:01:21 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290610120301s127273ay58c2c037e27e7161@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/11/06, Dethe Elza <delza at livingcode.org> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm switching to to a recent py2app and moving to use setuptools-
> based builds instead of distutils.  I've had several problems, but
> since I've been coding here and there in spare moments (including on
> the bus in the mornings), I haven't done a very good job of
> documenting them, I'm afraid.

Plugins are currently broken. This is a known issue... patches
accepted, I'm not sure when I'll have time to get to it.

-bob

From bob at redivi.com  Thu Oct 12 12:03:49 2006
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 03:03:49 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [Fwd: Re: [Matplotlib-users] Installation
	Problems on Mac OS X]
In-Reply-To: <egkj6i$uuv$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <452D6867.4030305@noaa.gov>
	<6a36e7290610111516v691e70bh10d88b6109ef60fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<egkj6i$uuv$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290610120303n3f483529j6f86f548a0b84497@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/11/06, Jacob Rus <jrus at hcs.harvard.edu> wrote:
> >> Which is why it would be nice to have an "egg handler", no matter how
> >> simple.
> >
> > $ easy_install url_or_path_to_egg
>
> Wouldn't it be pretty easy to wrap that in an Easy Install.app?

Yes, it is, and there's an example in the py2app sources that does
exactly that.. but it falls apart if you need options or if you have
proxy issues. Additionally, the common use case is "easy_install name"
rather than "easy_install
i_went_through_the_trouble_to_download_this_file_to_my_harddrive.egg"
so it proved to be rather useless in a general context (for anyone
that knows about easy_install a priori).

-bob

From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Thu Oct 12 12:03:58 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 12:03:58 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python 2.4.4c1 is released
Message-ID: <DB697FC2-68FB-4FD5-BC67-827FDAC40817@mac.com>

Hi,

As some of you might have noticed RC 1 of Python 2.4.4 is available  
on python.org. For the mac the most important changes are inclusion  
of the new icons (the same as in Python 2.5) and having universal  
binary support in the official python.org tree (instead of the  
python24-fat tree at pythonmac.org).

There is one major omission w.r.t. the python24-fat tree: I haven't  
merged the changes to IDLE to the official tree because those changes  
were IMO to invasive for a minor release. If you want to use IDLE  
you're better of with Python 2.5, that version of IDLE is the best  
one available for mac users.

I'd appriate if some of you could test this version, I may have  
missed something in the port from the pythonmac tree to the official  
tree.

Ronald
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From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Thu Oct 12 14:34:54 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:34:54 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python 2.4.4c1 is released
In-Reply-To: <44F8E19F-66B8-4B9B-A1C4-355A6A37DE52@chello.at>
References: <DB697FC2-68FB-4FD5-BC67-827FDAC40817@mac.com>
	<44F8E19F-66B8-4B9B-A1C4-355A6A37DE52@chello.at>
Message-ID: <0461BE46-95A3-44D2-86C1-EA783A93BC46@mac.com>


On Oct 12, 2006, at 2:31 PM, Kaweh Kazemi wrote:

> this is great. thanks.
>
> does 2.4.4 include the 2.5 fix for the python launcher (using the  
> script's current directory as the startup directory)?

I didn't rember if I backported that, but yes that fix is included.

Ronald

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From kaweh.kazemi at chello.at  Thu Oct 12 14:31:16 2006
From: kaweh.kazemi at chello.at (Kaweh Kazemi)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:31:16 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python 2.4.4c1 is released
In-Reply-To: <DB697FC2-68FB-4FD5-BC67-827FDAC40817@mac.com>
References: <DB697FC2-68FB-4FD5-BC67-827FDAC40817@mac.com>
Message-ID: <44F8E19F-66B8-4B9B-A1C4-355A6A37DE52@chello.at>

this is great. thanks.

does 2.4.4 include the 2.5 fix for the python launcher (using the  
script's current directory as the startup directory)?

cheers,
kaweh

On 12.10.2006, at 12:03, Ronald Oussoren wrote:

> Hi,
>
> As some of you might have noticed RC 1 of Python 2.4.4 is available  
> on python.org. For the mac the most important changes are inclusion  
> of the new icons (the same as in Python 2.5) and having universal  
> binary support in the official python.org tree (instead of the  
> python24-fat tree at pythonmac.org).
>
> There is one major omission w.r.t. the python24-fat tree: I haven't  
> merged the changes to IDLE to the official tree because those  
> changes were IMO to invasive for a minor release. If you want to  
> use IDLE you're better of with Python 2.5, that version of IDLE is  
> the best one available for mac users.
>
> I'd appriate if some of you could test this version, I may have  
> missed something in the port from the pythonmac tree to the  
> official tree.
>
> Ronald_______________________________________________
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig


From delza at livingcode.org  Thu Oct 12 15:59:02 2006
From: delza at livingcode.org (Dethe Elza)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 06:59:02 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <6a36e7290610120301s127273ay58c2c037e27e7161@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
	<6a36e7290610120301s127273ay58c2c037e27e7161@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A4002DF7-02AD-45A8-9CDF-1EF2A4210836@livingcode.org>

On 12-Oct-06, at 3:01 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote:

> Plugins are currently broken. This is a known issue... patches
> accepted, I'm not sure when I'll have time to get to it.

Can you give any more specifics about how it is broken.  I'm trying  
to write an article about how easy it is to build plugins with PyObjC  
and I'd really like it to be true again.  Is it documented somewhere  
that plugins are broken?  I've already wasted a few days of my hobby  
coding time trying to work around this.  And the plist thing doesn't  
just happen with plugins: the reason I started the switch to  
setuptools was that my icons stopped being added to applications  
under distutils.  Unfortunately, setuptools not only didn't fix the  
problem, it brought a host of other problems which I'm still digging  
out from under.

And here I thought I was a late adopter of setuptools.

Hints about the known problems and where to begin with solving them  
would be really appreciated.  Once I know what the problems are, I  
could even take a stab at improving the documentation.

--Dethe

It was odd: even though I was pretty much being eaten alive, I didn't  
really mind. I suppose it's the same sort of feeling Jesus had while  
on the cross, or how Buddha felt when Mechabuddha beat him up in  
downtown Tokyo. --AJ Packman



From jrus at hcs.harvard.edu  Thu Oct 12 18:11:58 2006
From: jrus at hcs.harvard.edu (Jacob Rus)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 12:11:58 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [Fwd: Re: [Matplotlib-users] Installation
 Problems on Mac OS X]
In-Reply-To: <6a36e7290610120303n3f483529j6f86f548a0b84497@mail.gmail.com>
References: <452D6867.4030305@noaa.gov>	<6a36e7290610111516v691e70bh10d88b6109ef60fe@mail.gmail.com>	<egkj6i$uuv$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<6a36e7290610120303n3f483529j6f86f548a0b84497@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eglpgf$ppb$1@sea.gmane.org>

Bob Ippolito wrote:
> Yes, it is, and there's an example in the py2app sources that does
> exactly that.. but it falls apart if you need options or if you have
> proxy issues. Additionally, the common use case is "easy_install name"
> rather than "easy_install
> i_went_through_the_trouble_to_download_this_file_to_my_harddrive.egg"
> so it proved to be rather useless in a general context (for anyone
> that knows about easy_install a priori).

I'm actually just in this to find a place to put the egg icon. :p  But 
it seems, on general principle, that it would be good to have some app 
that knows what egg files are to associate with launch services, even if 
all it does is pop up an informative message that says "run the 
following command from the terminal?" or something.  I'm really not 
joking about this one.  Users new to python have no idea what a .egg 
file is, and there's nothing that I could find in the standard python 
docs about what they are or how to use them (For instance, neither the 
[Installing Python Modules][ipm] page, nor the Library Reference, nor 
the Tutorial makes any mention of eggs).  Double clicking an egg file 
currently pops up a message that the system doesn't know what it is.

The whole point of eggs is that they're supposed to make life *easy*, 
and *just work*.

[ipm]: http://python.org/doc/current/inst/inst.html

Further down the line, it would be neat to have some sort of GUI app for 
browsing through python packages.  I don't know exactly what eggs look 
like internally, but it's my understanding that they contain code, plus 
information about dependencies, etc?  Maybe we could make a cocoa app 
for looking through all the installed packages on a user's computer, 
with a web view showing docstrings pulled out of the code, or even a 
text view showing the full code itself.  This app could show which 
packages were installed with which python version, and exactly where 
they were located on disk, etc.

I propose the name `Egg Basket.app`. :)

Maybe this is too much to dream, as no one really has the time to make 
such a thing.  But we're Mac users here.  We should strive for 
discoverable, clear, intuitive interfaces, even when it comes to 
programming.

-Jacob


From bob at redivi.com  Thu Oct 12 18:49:32 2006
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:49:32 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <A4002DF7-02AD-45A8-9CDF-1EF2A4210836@livingcode.org>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
	<6a36e7290610120301s127273ay58c2c037e27e7161@mail.gmail.com>
	<A4002DF7-02AD-45A8-9CDF-1EF2A4210836@livingcode.org>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290610120949i7c7ee102u9cdb5ebbf2019fca@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/12/06, Dethe Elza <delza at livingcode.org> wrote:
> On 12-Oct-06, at 3:01 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote:
>
> > Plugins are currently broken. This is a known issue... patches
> > accepted, I'm not sure when I'll have time to get to it.
>
> Can you give any more specifics about how it is broken.  I'm trying
> to write an article about how easy it is to build plugins with PyObjC
> and I'd really like it to be true again.  Is it documented somewhere
> that plugins are broken?  I've already wasted a few days of my hobby
> coding time trying to work around this.  And the plist thing doesn't
> just happen with plugins: the reason I started the switch to
> setuptools was that my icons stopped being added to applications
> under distutils.  Unfortunately, setuptools not only didn't fix the
> problem, it brought a host of other problems which I'm still digging
> out from under.
>
> And here I thought I was a late adopter of setuptools.
>
> Hints about the known problems and where to begin with solving them
> would be really appreciated.  Once I know what the problems are, I
> could even take a stab at improving the documentation.

plist thing just doesn't happen?

The plugin bootstrap is broken. They won't start.

The fact that plugins are broken is not documented, but neither is
anything else about plugins.

-bob

From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Thu Oct 12 19:08:23 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 19:08:23 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
Message-ID: <E86BB4B8-2C06-4E75-A411-43F4435AF175@mac.com>


On Oct 12, 2006, at 6:49 AM, Dethe Elza wrote:
[.. description of a problem ...]

>
> When I try to load the above screensaver I get the console messages:
>
> 'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "/Users/delza/Library/Screen Savers/PastelsView.saver/
> Contents/Resources/__boot__.py", line 7, in ?
>      _disable_linecache()
>    File "/Users/delza/Library/Screen Savers/PastelsView.saver/
> Contents/Resources/__boot__.py", line 2, in _disable_linecache
>      import linecache
> ImportError: No module named linecache
> 2006-10-11 21:19:00.209 System Preferences[382] PastelsView has
> encountered a fatal error, and will now terminate.
> 2006-10-11 21:19:00.209 System Preferences[382] An uncaught exception
> was raised during execution of the main script:
>
> ImportError: No module named linecache

Could you try again with the latest version of py2app, that is  
subversion revision 46. Using 'easy_install py2app==dev' should do  
the trick.

I just checked in a patch that fixes the Info.plist template, at  
least as far as the PYTHONPATH is concerned. This seems to be enough  
to create functional versions of PyObjC's Screensaver examples again,  
but I haven't done a full review therefore other issues might remain.

Ronald

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From bob at redivi.com  Thu Oct 12 19:20:34 2006
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 10:20:34 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <9A9F421A-6122-4414-81C4-0A6F196493CF@livingcode.org>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
	<6a36e7290610120301s127273ay58c2c037e27e7161@mail.gmail.com>
	<A4002DF7-02AD-45A8-9CDF-1EF2A4210836@livingcode.org>
	<6a36e7290610120949i7c7ee102u9cdb5ebbf2019fca@mail.gmail.com>
	<9A9F421A-6122-4414-81C4-0A6F196493CF@livingcode.org>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290610121020l5565509bge81859ed5c8870e3@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/12/06, Dethe Elza <delza at livingcode.org> wrote:
> On 12-Oct-06, at 9:49 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote:
>
> > plist thing just doesn't happen?
>
> Doesn't appear to.

I still don't know what you're talking about.

> > The plugin bootstrap is broken. They won't start.
>
> So where do I look?  This used to work beautifully.  Is the plugin
> bootstrap the __boot__.py file or is it in C or Objective-C?  Do we
> know how long this has been broken, so I can look at the context-
> appropriate diffs?

I think it's been broken since the release of 0.3, but it could've
happened some time later. I didn't have any easy to run examples or
use cases for them when I was finishing it, so they fell out of
maintenance.

I haven't used py2app or PyObjC for months... been really busy with
work, and no GUI toy projects. This leaves me with very little free
coding time, and when I have it I'm not very motivated to work on
stuff I don't have any plans to use any time soon.

> > The fact that plugins are broken is not documented, but neither is
> > anything else about plugins.
>
> They're minimally documented, but that was enough to get me going and
> I've been building plugins reliably for months, until now.  Right now
> I'm looking at how to return to distutils-based builds and an earlier
> version of py2app, since that worked.

The documentationf or 0.3 makes a couple mentions of plugins, but
there is no documentation at all for how to create one. You must be
referring to the old documentation.

-bob

From delza at livingcode.org  Thu Oct 12 19:15:05 2006
From: delza at livingcode.org (Dethe Elza)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 10:15:05 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <6a36e7290610120949i7c7ee102u9cdb5ebbf2019fca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
	<6a36e7290610120301s127273ay58c2c037e27e7161@mail.gmail.com>
	<A4002DF7-02AD-45A8-9CDF-1EF2A4210836@livingcode.org>
	<6a36e7290610120949i7c7ee102u9cdb5ebbf2019fca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9A9F421A-6122-4414-81C4-0A6F196493CF@livingcode.org>

On 12-Oct-06, at 9:49 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote:

> plist thing just doesn't happen?

Doesn't appear to.

> The plugin bootstrap is broken. They won't start.

So where do I look?  This used to work beautifully.  Is the plugin  
bootstrap the __boot__.py file or is it in C or Objective-C?  Do we  
know how long this has been broken, so I can look at the context- 
appropriate diffs?

> The fact that plugins are broken is not documented, but neither is
> anything else about plugins.

They're minimally documented, but that was enough to get me going and  
I've been building plugins reliably for months, until now.  Right now  
I'm looking at how to return to distutils-based builds and an earlier  
version of py2app, since that worked.

--Dethe

You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't  
help. --Calvin



From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Thu Oct 12 19:34:00 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 19:34:00 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <9A9F421A-6122-4414-81C4-0A6F196493CF@livingcode.org>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
	<6a36e7290610120301s127273ay58c2c037e27e7161@mail.gmail.com>
	<A4002DF7-02AD-45A8-9CDF-1EF2A4210836@livingcode.org>
	<6a36e7290610120949i7c7ee102u9cdb5ebbf2019fca@mail.gmail.com>
	<9A9F421A-6122-4414-81C4-0A6F196493CF@livingcode.org>
Message-ID: <093FCE35-10BB-4BAF-B234-2EEFEAB0FC2F@mac.com>


On Oct 12, 2006, at 7:15 PM, Dethe Elza wrote:

> On 12-Oct-06, at 9:49 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote:
>
>> plist thing just doesn't happen?
>
> Doesn't appear to.
>
>> The plugin bootstrap is broken. They won't start.
>
> So where do I look?  This used to work beautifully.  Is the plugin
> bootstrap the __boot__.py file or is it in C or Objective-C?  Do we
> know how long this has been broken, so I can look at the context-
> appropriate diffs?
>
>> The fact that plugins are broken is not documented, but neither is
>> anything else about plugins.
>
> They're minimally documented, but that was enough to get me going and
> I've been building plugins reliably for months, until now.  Right now
> I'm looking at how to return to distutils-based builds and an earlier
> version of py2app, since that worked.

Could you please  try the latest version in the py2app repository  
again? I think I fixed the pythonpath issue, that should get you  
going again.

Ronald

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From delza at livingcode.org  Thu Oct 12 19:58:20 2006
From: delza at livingcode.org (Dethe Elza)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 10:58:20 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <E86BB4B8-2C06-4E75-A411-43F4435AF175@mac.com>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
	<E86BB4B8-2C06-4E75-A411-43F4435AF175@mac.com>
Message-ID: <0B8F6395-E8BD-48AB-91D2-EC36356E8F7E@livingcode.org>

On 12-Oct-06, at 10:08 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:

> Could you try again with the latest version of py2app, that is  
> subversion revision 46. Using 'easy_install py2app==dev' should do  
> the trick.

When I try that (after a long time) get a stack trace as follows:

delza$ easy_install py2app==dev
Searching for py2app==dev
Reading http://www.python.org/pypi/py2app/
Reading http://undefined.org/python/#py2app
Reading http://www.python.org/pypi/py2app/0.3.4
Best match: py2app dev
Downloading http://svn.pythonmac.org/py2app/py2app/trunk#egg=py2app-dev
Doing subversion checkout from http://svn.pythonmac.org/py2app/py2app/ 
trunk to /tmp/easy_install-q6o67p/trunk
Processing trunk
Running setup.py -q bdist_egg --dist-dir /tmp/easy_install-q6o67p/ 
trunk/egg-dist-tmp-vup0ad
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/pybin/easy_install", line 7, in ?
     sys.exit(
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/ 
python2.4/site-packages/setuptools-0.7a1dev_r51485-py2.4.egg/ 
setuptools/command/easy_install.py", line 1588, in main
     with_ei_usage(lambda:
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/ 
python2.4/site-packages/setuptools-0.7a1dev_r51485-py2.4.egg/ 
setuptools/command/easy_install.py", line 1577, in with_ei_usage
     return f()
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/ 
python2.4/site-packages/setuptools-0.7a1dev_r51485-py2.4.egg/ 
setuptools/command/easy_install.py", line 1592, in <lambda>
     distclass=DistributionWithoutHelpCommands, **kw
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4//lib/ 
python2.4/distutils/core.py", line 149, in setup
     dist.run_commands()
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/ 
python2.4/distutils/dist.py", line 946, in run_commands
     self.run_command(cmd)
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/ 
python2.4/distutils/dist.py", line 966, in run_command
     cmd_obj.run()
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/ 
python2.4/site-packages/setuptools-0.7a1dev_r51485-py2.4.egg/ 
setuptools/command/easy_install.py", line 211, in run
     self.easy_install(spec, not self.no_deps)
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/ 
python2.4/site-packages/setuptools-0.7a1dev_r51485-py2.4.egg/ 
setuptools/command/easy_install.py", line 446, in easy_install
     return self.install_item(spec, dist.location, tmpdir, deps)
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/ 
python2.4/site-packages/setuptools-0.7a1dev_r51485-py2.4.egg/ 
setuptools/command/easy_install.py", line 471, in install_item
     dists = self.install_eggs(spec, download, tmpdir)
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/ 
python2.4/site-packages/setuptools-0.7a1dev_r51485-py2.4.egg/ 
setuptools/command/easy_install.py", line 655, in install_eggs
     return self.build_and_install(setup_script, setup_base)
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/ 
python2.4/site-packages/setuptools-0.7a1dev_r51485-py2.4.egg/ 
setuptools/command/easy_install.py", line 930, in build_and_install
     self.run_setup(setup_script, setup_base, args)
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/ 
python2.4/site-packages/setuptools-0.7a1dev_r51485-py2.4.egg/ 
setuptools/command/easy_install.py", line 919, in run_setup
     run_setup(setup_script, args)
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/ 
python2.4/site-packages/setuptools-0.7a1dev_r51485-py2.4.egg/ 
setuptools/sandbox.py", line 26, in run_setup
     DirectorySandbox(setup_dir).run(
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/ 
python2.4/site-packages/setuptools-0.7a1dev_r51485-py2.4.egg/ 
setuptools/sandbox.py", line 63, in run
     return func()
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/ 
python2.4/site-packages/setuptools-0.7a1dev_r51485-py2.4.egg/ 
setuptools/sandbox.py", line 29, in <lambda>
     {'__file__':setup_script, '__name__':'__main__'}
   File "setup.py", line 92, in ?
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4//lib/ 
python2.4/distutils/core.py", line 149, in setup
     dist.run_commands()
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/ 
python2.4/distutils/dist.py", line 946, in run_commands
     self.run_command(cmd)
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/ 
python2.4/distutils/dist.py", line 965, in run_command
     cmd_obj.ensure_finalized()
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4//lib/ 
python2.4/distutils/cmd.py", line 117, in ensure_finalized
     self.finalize_options()
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/ 
python2.4/site-packages/setuptools-0.7a1dev_r51485-py2.4.egg/ 
setuptools/command/bdist_egg.py", line 94, in finalize_options
     ei_cmd = self.ei_cmd = self.get_finalized_command("egg_info")
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4//lib/ 
python2.4/distutils/cmd.py", line 319, in get_finalized_command
     cmd_obj.ensure_finalized()
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4//lib/ 
python2.4/distutils/cmd.py", line 117, in ensure_finalized
     self.finalize_options()
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/ 
python2.4/site-packages/setuptools-0.7a1dev_r51485-py2.4.egg/ 
setuptools/command/egg_info.py", line 85, in finalize_options
     self.vtags = self.tags()
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/ 
python2.4/site-packages/setuptools-0.7a1dev_r51485-py2.4.egg/ 
setuptools/command/egg_info.py", line 179, in tags
     ):  version += '-r%s' % self.get_svn_revision()
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/lib/ 
python2.4/site-packages/setuptools-0.7a1dev_r51485-py2.4.egg/ 
setuptools/command/egg_info.py", line 196, in get_svn_revision
     dirurl = urlre.search(data).group(1)    # get repository URL
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'group'


> I just checked in a patch that fixes the Info.plist template, at  
> least as far as the PYTHONPATH is concerned. This seems to be  
> enough to create functional versions of PyObjC's Screensaver  
> examples again, but I haven't done a full review therefore other  
> issues might remain.

Thanks for taking a look at this.

> Ronald

--Dethe

Ninety percent of the technology hasn't even been developed yet. -- 
Tim Armstrong, Google



From pedz at easesoftware.com  Thu Oct 12 20:02:48 2006
From: pedz at easesoftware.com (Perry Smith)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 13:02:48 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Das Keyboard
Message-ID: <C44E7707-290A-42C4-B527-88D5E226F151@easesoftware.com>

I bought a keyboard called Das Keyboard.  When I plug it in, the Mac  
needs me to hit two keys so it can identify the keyboard.

Does Python on the Mac have any way to catch this "event" (it may not  
be an event actually)?

The other question is for this keyboard, the command and option keys  
are flipped.  There is a control panel that can be used to flip them  
but I would like two applications to flip them or to set them back to  
normal (I use this keyboard on a laptop so I am frequently plugging  
it in and out).

Thanks,
Perry Smith
Ease Software, Inc.
pedz at easesoftware.com
http://www.easesoftware.com

SATA Products for IBMs RS/6000, pSeries, and AIX systems



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From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Thu Oct 12 22:33:22 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 22:33:22 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <0B8F6395-E8BD-48AB-91D2-EC36356E8F7E@livingcode.org>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
	<E86BB4B8-2C06-4E75-A411-43F4435AF175@mac.com>
	<0B8F6395-E8BD-48AB-91D2-EC36356E8F7E@livingcode.org>
Message-ID: <AC597414-B5C8-496C-B520-766767E18568@mac.com>


On Oct 12, 2006, at 7:58 PM, Dethe Elza wrote:

> On 12-Oct-06, at 10:08 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>
>> Could you try again with the latest version of py2app, that is  
>> subversion revision 46. Using 'easy_install py2app==dev' should do  
>> the trick.
>
> When I try that (after a long time) get a stack trace as follows:

Why are you using setuptools 0.7? 0.6 is the stable version of  
setuptools and works with both python 2.4 and 2.5. I'm using 0.6c3  
and that works just fine.

Ronald

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From bob at redivi.com  Thu Oct 12 22:44:03 2006
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 13:44:03 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <AC597414-B5C8-496C-B520-766767E18568@mac.com>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
	<E86BB4B8-2C06-4E75-A411-43F4435AF175@mac.com>
	<0B8F6395-E8BD-48AB-91D2-EC36356E8F7E@livingcode.org>
	<AC597414-B5C8-496C-B520-766767E18568@mac.com>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290610121344g6a3987dbn1dbcc65fb9c389b8@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/12/06, Ronald Oussoren <ronaldoussoren at mac.com> wrote:
>
> On Oct 12, 2006, at 7:58 PM, Dethe Elza wrote:
>
> > On 12-Oct-06, at 10:08 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
> >
> >> Could you try again with the latest version of py2app, that is
> >> subversion revision 46. Using 'easy_install py2app==dev' should do
> >> the trick.
> >
> > When I try that (after a long time) get a stack trace as follows:
>
> Why are you using setuptools 0.7? 0.6 is the stable version of
> setuptools and works with both python 2.4 and 2.5. I'm using 0.6c3
> and that works just fine.

Also if you think that you'll need to hack on py2app at all you'd be
better off checking out the source and then "python setup.py develop".
That way the egg is your checkout so it's trivial to update and hack
on.

-bob

From delza at livingcode.org  Thu Oct 12 23:02:05 2006
From: delza at livingcode.org (Dethe Elza)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:02:05 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <AC597414-B5C8-496C-B520-766767E18568@mac.com>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
	<E86BB4B8-2C06-4E75-A411-43F4435AF175@mac.com>
	<0B8F6395-E8BD-48AB-91D2-EC36356E8F7E@livingcode.org>
	<AC597414-B5C8-496C-B520-766767E18568@mac.com>
Message-ID: <2661F728-75BF-4B4B-9E76-6A0E05EEC40E@livingcode.org>

On 12-Oct-06, at 1:33 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:

>>> Could you try again with the latest version of py2app, that is  
>>> subversion revision 46. Using 'easy_install py2app==dev' should  
>>> do the trick.
>>
>> When I try that (after a long time) get a stack trace as follows:
>
> Why are you using setuptools 0.7? 0.6 is the stable version of  
> setuptools and works with both python 2.4 and 2.5. I'm using 0.6c3  
> and that works just fine.

Probably from running something like easy_install setuptools=dev,  
which is the way listed under "Install" on the setuptools page?

I've reverted to 0.6c3 and updated to py2app r46, but both problems  
remain: 1) py2app isnot picking up plist from a dict, although it  
does pick up plist filename from a string, and 2) cannot load bundle  
when building a plugin (screensaver).

--Dethe

"Improved focus can be achieved through activities such as
meditations, yoga and turn off Instant Messaging" - Ulrich Mayr



From delza at livingcode.org  Thu Oct 12 23:06:29 2006
From: delza at livingcode.org (Dethe Elza)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:06:29 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <6a36e7290610121344g6a3987dbn1dbcc65fb9c389b8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
	<E86BB4B8-2C06-4E75-A411-43F4435AF175@mac.com>
	<0B8F6395-E8BD-48AB-91D2-EC36356E8F7E@livingcode.org>
	<AC597414-B5C8-496C-B520-766767E18568@mac.com>
	<6a36e7290610121344g6a3987dbn1dbcc65fb9c389b8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2C5979D8-F569-4CCB-9B10-0C29BD4ED461@livingcode.org>

On 12-Oct-06, at 1:44 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote:

> Also if you think that you'll need to hack on py2app at all you'd be
> better off checking out the source and then "python setup.py develop".
> That way the egg is your checkout so it's trivial to update and hack
> on.

Good advice.  I'm still quite new to setuptools, learning as I go.  I  
had gotten used to PyObjC and py2app Just Working and certainly never  
thought I'd be hacking on py2app, but so it goes.

Bob, sorry to hear you're not working on py2app or PyObjC these  
days.  While I appreciate your work on MochiKit (it's my favorite JS  
library), we miss you over in OS X land.

Ronald, thanks for taking a look at this.  Is there any further info  
I can give that would be helpful?

--Dethe

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.  
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by  
definition, not smart enough to debug it. "  --Brian Kernighan



From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Thu Oct 12 23:15:12 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 23:15:12 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <2C5979D8-F569-4CCB-9B10-0C29BD4ED461@livingcode.org>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
	<E86BB4B8-2C06-4E75-A411-43F4435AF175@mac.com>
	<0B8F6395-E8BD-48AB-91D2-EC36356E8F7E@livingcode.org>
	<AC597414-B5C8-496C-B520-766767E18568@mac.com>
	<6a36e7290610121344g6a3987dbn1dbcc65fb9c389b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<2C5979D8-F569-4CCB-9B10-0C29BD4ED461@livingcode.org>
Message-ID: <C476A779-8BDC-4CEA-9A66-921A5F467FD3@mac.com>


On Oct 12, 2006, at 11:06 PM, Dethe Elza wrote:

> On 12-Oct-06, at 1:44 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote:
>
>> Also if you think that you'll need to hack on py2app at all you'd be
>> better off checking out the source and then "python setup.py  
>> develop".
>> That way the egg is your checkout so it's trivial to update and hack
>> on.
>
> Good advice.  I'm still quite new to setuptools, learning as I go.   
> I had gotten used to PyObjC and py2app Just Working and certainly  
> never thought I'd be hacking on py2app, but so it goes.
>
> Bob, sorry to hear you're not working on py2app or PyObjC these  
> days.  While I appreciate your work on MochiKit (it's my favorite  
> JS library), we miss you over in OS X land.
>
> Ronald, thanks for taking a look at this.  Is there any further  
> info I can give that would be helpful?

What are you using to test? I've tested with the SillyBalls  
screensaver in PyObjC's examples directory (Examples/Plugins/ 
SillyBallsSaver).

I'm also using the SVN HEAD for altgraph, modulegraph and the other  
related projects, I don't know if that helps.

If upgrading doesn't help, or the SillyBallsSaver example doesn't  
work for you, I'd like to know loads of version information (Python,  
PyObjC, py2app, altgraph, modulegraph, macholib) and the exact error  
message you get in Console.app (close SystemPreferences, open  
Console.app, use the Clear button, then open a freshly build version  
of your saver or the SillyBals saver).

Also make sure you stop SystemPreferences when you want to test a new  
build of a screensaver, otherwise SystemPreferences doesn't always  
pick up the new version (or rather almost never).

Ronald

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From delza at livingcode.org  Thu Oct 12 23:40:06 2006
From: delza at livingcode.org (Dethe Elza)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:40:06 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <C476A779-8BDC-4CEA-9A66-921A5F467FD3@mac.com>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
	<E86BB4B8-2C06-4E75-A411-43F4435AF175@mac.com>
	<0B8F6395-E8BD-48AB-91D2-EC36356E8F7E@livingcode.org>
	<AC597414-B5C8-496C-B520-766767E18568@mac.com>
	<6a36e7290610121344g6a3987dbn1dbcc65fb9c389b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<2C5979D8-F569-4CCB-9B10-0C29BD4ED461@livingcode.org>
	<C476A779-8BDC-4CEA-9A66-921A5F467FD3@mac.com>
Message-ID: <871BB456-7EC5-4B6D-91D5-AEDF7D9F2EEC@livingcode.org>

On 12-Oct-06, at 2:15 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:

> What are you using to test? I've tested with the SillyBalls  
> screensaver in PyObjC's examples directory (Examples/Plugins/ 
> SillyBallsSaver).

I've been testing with my screensaver, Pastels, but I just tried with  
SillyBalls and it also failed to load.

> I'm also using the SVN HEAD for altgraph, modulegraph and the other  
> related projects, I don't know if that helps.

> If upgrading doesn't help, or the SillyBallsSaver example doesn't  
> work for you, I'd like to know loads of version information  
> (Python, PyObjC, py2app, altgraph, modulegraph, macholib) and the  
> exact error message you get in Console.app (close  
> SystemPreferences, open Console.app, use the Clear button, then  
> open a freshly build version of your saver or the SillyBals saver).

macholib 1.1
modulegraph 0.7
altgraph 0.6.7
bdist_mpkg 0.4.2

Any others?

Console output from opening SillyBalls:

'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/Users/delza/Library/Screen Savers/SillyBalls.saver/Contents/ 
Resources/__boot__.py", line 7, in ?
     _disable_linecache()
   File "/Users/delza/Library/Screen Savers/SillyBalls.saver/Contents/ 
Resources/__boot__.py", line 2, in _disable_linecache
     import linecache
ImportError: No module named linecache
2006-10-12 14:37:36.350 System Preferences[839] SillyBalls has  
encountered a fatal error, and will now terminate.
2006-10-12 14:37:36.350 System Preferences[839] An uncaught exception  
was raised during execution of the main script:

ImportError: No module named linecache

This may mean that an unexpected error has occurred, or that you do  
not have all of the dependencies for this bundle.
2006-10-12 14:37:36.350 System Preferences[839] ScreenSaverModules:  
can't get principalClass for /Users/delza/Library/Screen Savers/ 
SillyBalls.saver

> Also make sure you stop SystemPreferences when you want to test a  
> new build of a screensaver, otherwise SystemPreferences doesn't  
> always pick up the new version (or rather almost never).

I've been deleting old versions from ~/Library/Screen Savers/ (which  
is where I've been installing them), which seems to get my updates  
picked up OK.

> Ronald

Thanks for the help!

--Dethe

"The real trouble with this world of ours is not that it is an  
unreasonable world, nor even that it is a reasonable one. The  
commonest kind of trouble is that it is nearly reasonable, but not  
quite. Life is not an illogicality; yet it is a trap for logicians.  
It looks just a little more mathematical and regular than it is; its  
exactitude is obvious, but its inexactitude is hidden; its wildness  
lies in wait." --G.K. Chesterton




From josh.p.marshall at gmail.com  Thu Oct 12 23:52:10 2006
From: josh.p.marshall at gmail.com (Josh Marshall)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 07:52:10 +1000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Das Keyboard
In-Reply-To: <mailman.913.1160687736.11738.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
References: <mailman.913.1160687736.11738.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CED2A59-9D32-412C-9EE3-516FC1D2220A@gmail.com>


On 13/10/2006, at 4:02 AM, Perry Smith < wrote:
>
> I bought a keyboard called Das Keyboard.  When I plug it in, the  
> Mac needs me to hit two keys so it can identify the keyboard.
>
> Does Python on the Mac have any way to catch this "event" (it may  
> not be an event actually)?
I don't know, sorry.

>
> The other question is for this keyboard, the command and option  
> keys are flipped.  There is a control panel that can be used to  
> flip them but I would like two applications to flip them or to set  
> them back to normal (I use this keyboard on a laptop so I am  
> frequently plugging it in and out).
This is a bit off-topic, but I'll answer it anyway, since I had the  
same problem and it is quite frustrating.

I found this script somewhere on the net a few months back, but  
googling now doesn't find it.

Add the following to a script in Script Editor:

"""
tell application "System Preferences"
	activate
	set current pane to pane "com.apple.preference.keyboard"
end tell

tell application "System Events"
	get properties
	tell application process "System Preferences"
		click button "Modifier Keys?" of tab group 1 of window "Keyboard &  
Mouse"
		
		set commandKey to value of pop up button 3 of sheet 1 of window  
"Keyboard & Mouse"
		
		-- DEBUG
		-- display dialog commandKey
		
		--  Default, lets flip
		if commandKey ends with "Option" then
			-- click the pop up button menu "Option", this menu does not exist  
until it is clicked in the GUI
			click pop up button 3 of sheet 1 of window "Keyboard & Mouse"
			-- click "Command" of the pop up menu
			click menu item 4 of menu 1 of pop up button 3 of sheet 1 of  
window "Keyboard & Mouse"
			
			-- delay briefly
			delay 1
			
			-- click the pop up button menu "Command", this menu does not  
exist until it is clicked in the GUI
			click pop up button 4 of sheet 1 of window "Keyboard & Mouse"
			-- click "Option" of the pop up menu
			click menu item 3 of menu 1 of pop up button 4 of sheet 1 of  
window "Keyboard & Mouse"
			
			-- Not Default, lets flip it back
		else
			click button "Restore Defaults" of sheet 1 of window "Keyboard &  
Mouse"
		end if
		
		-- click "OK" to dismiss the sheet
		click button "OK" of sheet 1 of window "Keyboard & Mouse"
		
	end tell
end tell

tell application "System Preferences" to quit
"""
Enable user interface scripting in System Prefs:Accessibility, put  
the script in your Library/Scripts folder, and enable the system  
scripting menu. You can then run this script from the menu, and it'l  
swap your Command and Option keys.

Cheers,
Josh

>
> Thanks,
> Perry Smith
> Ease Software, Inc.
> pedz at easesoftware.com
> http://www.easesoftware.com
>
> SATA Products for IBMs RS/6000, pSeries, and AIX systems


From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Thu Oct 12 23:56:45 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 23:56:45 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <871BB456-7EC5-4B6D-91D5-AEDF7D9F2EEC@livingcode.org>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
	<E86BB4B8-2C06-4E75-A411-43F4435AF175@mac.com>
	<0B8F6395-E8BD-48AB-91D2-EC36356E8F7E@livingcode.org>
	<AC597414-B5C8-496C-B520-766767E18568@mac.com>
	<6a36e7290610121344g6a3987dbn1dbcc65fb9c389b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<2C5979D8-F569-4CCB-9B10-0C29BD4ED461@livingcode.org>
	<C476A779-8BDC-4CEA-9A66-921A5F467FD3@mac.com>
	<871BB456-7EC5-4B6D-91D5-AEDF7D9F2EEC@livingcode.org>
Message-ID: <5D001845-754C-4374-A45A-23DE16B622B9@mac.com>


On Oct 12, 2006, at 11:40 PM, Dethe Elza wrote:

> On 12-Oct-06, at 2:15 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>
>> What are you using to test? I've tested with the SillyBalls  
>> screensaver in PyObjC's examples directory (Examples/Plugins/ 
>> SillyBallsSaver).
>
> I've been testing with my screensaver, Pastels, but I just tried  
> with SillyBalls and it also failed to load.
>
>> I'm also using the SVN HEAD for altgraph, modulegraph and the  
>> other related projects, I don't know if that helps.
>
>> If upgrading doesn't help, or the SillyBallsSaver example doesn't  
>> work for you, I'd like to know loads of version information  
>> (Python, PyObjC, py2app, altgraph, modulegraph, macholib) and the  
>> exact error message you get in Console.app (close  
>> SystemPreferences, open Console.app, use the Clear button, then  
>> open a freshly build version of your saver or the SillyBals saver).
>
> macholib 1.1
> modulegraph 0.7
> altgraph 0.6.7
> bdist_mpkg 0.4.2

I have macholib 1.2, modulegraph 0.7.1, altgraph 0.6.8 and py2app  
0.3.5, all fresh checkouts from svn.

>
> Any others?
>
> Console output from opening SillyBalls:
>
> 'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/Users/delza/Library/Screen Savers/SillyBalls.saver/ 
> Contents/Resources/__boot__.py", line 7, in ?
>     _disable_linecache()
>   File "/Users/delza/Library/Screen Savers/SillyBalls.saver/ 
> Contents/Resources/__boot__.py", line 2, in _disable_linecache
>     import linecache
> ImportError: No module named linecache
> 2006-10-12 14:37:36.350 System Preferences[839] SillyBalls has  
> encountered a fatal error, and will now terminate.
> 2006-10-12 14:37:36.350 System Preferences[839] An uncaught  
> exception was raised during execution of the main script:
>
> ImportError: No module named linecache

Could you check the Info.plist and the structure of the screensaver?

Info.plist should have a key PyResourcePackages with an empty array  
as its value and an PyRuntimeLocations that points to an embedded  
python framework. The patch I just checked in ensures that  
PyResourcePackages is empty, with an unpatched version the array will  
contain some strings and that messes up sys.path.

There should be a lib/python2.4 in the Resources directory of the  
screensaver, that should contain site-packages.zip, site.py and a lib- 
dynload directory.

To make absolutely sure you have my patched version you could check  
py2app/bundletemplate/plist_template.py, there is a definition of  
PyResourcePackages in there, the value of which should be an empty  
list. One way to check:

.>> import pprint
.>> import py2app.bundletemplate.plist_template
.>> pprint.pprint(py2app.bundletemplate.plist_template.infoPlistDict 
('dummy'))
{'CFBundleDevelopmentRegion': u'English',
'CFBundleDisplayName': u'dummy',
'CFBundleExecutable': u'dummy',
'CFBundleIconFile': u'dummy',
'CFBundleIdentifier': u'org.pythonmac.unspecified.dummy',
'CFBundleInfoDictionaryVersion': u'6.0',
'CFBundleName': u'dummy',
'CFBundlePackageType': u'BNDL',
'CFBundleShortVersionString': u'0.0',
'CFBundleSignature': u'????',
'CFBundleVersion': u'0.0',
'LSHasLocalizedDisplayName': False,
'NSAppleScriptEnabled': False,
'NSHumanReadableCopyright': u'Copyright not specified',
'NSMainNibFile': u'MainMenu',
'NSPrincipalClass': u'dummy',
'PyMainFileNames': [u'__boot__'],
'PyResourcePackages': [],
'PyRuntimeLocations': [u'@executable_path/../Frameworks/ 
Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Python',
                         u'~/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/ 
Versions/2.4/Python',
                         u'/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/ 
Versions/2.4/Python',
                         u'/Network/Library/Frameworks/ 
Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Python',
                         u'/System/Library/Frameworks/ 
Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Python'],
u'PythonInfoDict': {'PythonExecutable': u'/Library/Frameworks/ 
Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Resources/Python.app/Contents/MacOS/ 
Python',
                      'PythonLongVersion': u'2.4.4c1 (#1, Oct 11  
2006, 15:11:04) \n[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5341)]',
                      'PythonShortVersion': u'2.4',
                      u'py2app': {'version': u'0.3.5', 'template':  
u'bundle'}}}



Ronald

P.S. Are you sure you installed the latest version of py2app in the  
right version of Python? If you installed python2.5 after installing  
python2.4 easy_install might point to the 2.5 version of easy_install  
(if you have that installed), if it is easy_install-2.4 should pick  
up the correct version.

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From delza at livingcode.org  Fri Oct 13 01:15:46 2006
From: delza at livingcode.org (Dethe Elza)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 16:15:46 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <5D001845-754C-4374-A45A-23DE16B622B9@mac.com>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
	<E86BB4B8-2C06-4E75-A411-43F4435AF175@mac.com>
	<0B8F6395-E8BD-48AB-91D2-EC36356E8F7E@livingcode.org>
	<AC597414-B5C8-496C-B520-766767E18568@mac.com>
	<6a36e7290610121344g6a3987dbn1dbcc65fb9c389b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<2C5979D8-F569-4CCB-9B10-0C29BD4ED461@livingcode.org>
	<C476A779-8BDC-4CEA-9A66-921A5F467FD3@mac.com>
	<871BB456-7EC5-4B6D-91D5-AEDF7D9F2EEC@livingcode.org>
	<5D001845-754C-4374-A45A-23DE16B622B9@mac.com>
Message-ID: <AC11B3D7-B965-40CA-AF3A-A1B4A231CD38@livingcode.org>

On 12-Oct-06, at 2:56 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:

> I have macholib 1.2, modulegraph 0.7.1, altgraph 0.6.8 and py2app  
> 0.3.5, all fresh checkouts from svn.

OK, I now have those versions as well, via easy_install [module]==dev  
on each one.  I had tried building them all from svn the other day,  
but failed, perhaps because of having the wrong version of setuptools.

> Could you check the Info.plist and the structure of the screensaver?
>
> Info.plist should have a key PyResourcePackages with an empty array  
> as its value

yes, have that

> and an PyRuntimeLocations that points to an embedded python framework.

PyRuntimeLocaions contains the value:  @executable_path/../Frameworks/ 
Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Python

> The patch I just checked in ensures that PyResourcePackages is  
> empty, with an unpatched version the array will contain some  
> strings and that messes up sys.path.
>
> There should be a lib/python2.4 in the Resources directory of the  
> screensaver, that should contain site-packages.zip, site.py and a  
> lib-dynload directory.

Yes.  It also contains a config directory which contains Makefile,  
Setup, Setup.config, Setup.local.

> To make absolutely sure you have my patched version you could check  
> py2app/bundletemplate/plist_template.py, there is a definition of  
> PyResourcePackages in there, the value of which should be an empty  
> list. One way to check:
>
> .>> import pprint
> .>> import py2app.bundletemplate.plist_template
> .>> pprint.pprint(py2app.bundletemplate.plist_template.infoPlistDict 
> ('dummy'))
> {'CFBundleDevelopmentRegion': u'English',
> 'CFBundleDisplayName': u'dummy',
> 'CFBundleExecutable': u'dummy',
> 'CFBundleIconFile': u'dummy',
> 'CFBundleIdentifier': u'org.pythonmac.unspecified.dummy',
> 'CFBundleInfoDictionaryVersion': u'6.0',
> 'CFBundleName': u'dummy',
> 'CFBundlePackageType': u'BNDL',
> 'CFBundleShortVersionString': u'0.0',
> 'CFBundleSignature': u'????',
> 'CFBundleVersion': u'0.0',
> 'LSHasLocalizedDisplayName': False,
> 'NSAppleScriptEnabled': False,
> 'NSHumanReadableCopyright': u'Copyright not specified',
> 'NSMainNibFile': u'MainMenu',
> 'NSPrincipalClass': u'dummy',
> 'PyMainFileNames': [u'__boot__'],
> 'PyResourcePackages': [],
> 'PyRuntimeLocations': [u'@executable_path/../Frameworks/ 
> Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Python',
>                         u'~/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/ 
> Versions/2.4/Python',
>                         u'/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/ 
> Versions/2.4/Python',
>                         u'/Network/Library/Frameworks/ 
> Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Python',
>                         u'/System/Library/Frameworks/ 
> Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Python'],
> u'PythonInfoDict': {'PythonExecutable': u'/Library/Frameworks/ 
> Python.framework/Versions/2.4/Resources/Python.app/Contents/MacOS/ 
> Python',
>                      'PythonLongVersion': u'2.4.4c1 (#1, Oct 11  
> 2006, 15:11:04) \n[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5341)]',
>                      'PythonShortVersion': u'2.4',
>                      u'py2app': {'version': u'0.3.5', 'template':  
> u'bundle'}}}

That looks right, I see an empty list as the value of  
PyResourcePackages.

> Ronald
>
> P.S. Are you sure you installed the latest version of py2app in the  
> right version of Python? If you installed python2.5 after  
> installing python2.4 easy_install might point to the 2.5 version of  
> easy_install (if you have that installed), if it is  
> easy_install-2.4 should pick up the correct version.

I'm sure.  I've been checking the site-packages directory before and  
after running easy_install, and I've gone through and removed  
old .egg directories (and checked the easy_install.pth) so I can be  
sure I'm getting the right versions.  I've checked to make sure I  
have the current version of the SillyBalls code too.  SillyBalls  
doesn't even use setuptools, so whatever is broken is broken across  
both distutils and setuptools (I haven't dug underneath yet to see  
how these work, so it's still magic under the covers to me).

So still no idea why it's working for you, but not for me.  Anything  
else you can think of?  I followed the instructions in the py2app  
docs for removing old versions of py2app.  If everything is  
encapsulated in the .egg, perhaps I can revert to the earlier version  
that worked?

--Dethe

It was odd: even though I was pretty much being eaten alive, I didn't  
really mind. I suppose it's the same sort of feeling Jesus had while  
on the cross, or how Buddha felt when Mechabuddha beat him up in  
downtown Tokyo. --AJ Packman



From jrodman at mindspring.com  Fri Oct 13 04:49:12 2006
From: jrodman at mindspring.com (Jeff Rodman)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 19:49:12 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Support for live audio I/O via Python on Mac?
Message-ID: <97B00D61-F072-484B-A426-B224008AE41E@mindspring.com>

  is there a simple, current Python module for controlling the audio  
in/out devices on Mac OSX (Python 2.5, OSX 10.4.8, PowerMac at the  
moment but Intel is possible), preferably in/out simultaneously?   
I've visited the main sites and lists, I think, but not found a basic  
answer.  "audioop" in the Standard Library manipulates files but does  
not play/record, "ossaudiodev" does not seem to be included in the  
actual Python install although documented in the Standard Library  
manual, and I can't find a mac-targeted form of the "OSS" module over  
at 4Front.  Just want to play and record short files, (I'll take any  
format, .raw data or wav is fine) in real time for a acoustic  
application.

I'm sure there's a straightforward answer, I'm just missing it.   
Thanks for any help!

Jeff
San Francisco

From bob at redivi.com  Fri Oct 13 05:04:25 2006
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 20:04:25 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Support for live audio I/O via Python on Mac?
In-Reply-To: <97B00D61-F072-484B-A426-B224008AE41E@mindspring.com>
References: <97B00D61-F072-484B-A426-B224008AE41E@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290610122004h5b8d6cbfj66d74246377d6920@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/12/06, Jeff Rodman <jrodman at mindspring.com> wrote:
>   is there a simple, current Python module for controlling the audio
> in/out devices on Mac OSX (Python 2.5, OSX 10.4.8, PowerMac at the
> moment but Intel is possible), preferably in/out simultaneously?
> I've visited the main sites and lists, I think, but not found a basic
> answer.  "audioop" in the Standard Library manipulates files but does
> not play/record, "ossaudiodev" does not seem to be included in the
> actual Python install although documented in the Standard Library
> manual, and I can't find a mac-targeted form of the "OSS" module over
> at 4Front.  Just want to play and record short files, (I'll take any
> format, .raw data or wav is fine) in real time for a acoustic
> application.
>
> I'm sure there's a straightforward answer, I'm just missing it.
> Thanks for any help!

I don't think so... last time I did audio input I needed to write my
own code in C and Objective-C that called back into Python. You might
want to look at something like JACK though. I've never used it, but it
looked promising a year or two ago: http://jackaudio.org/ --
separating out the audio into a separate process makes everything
easier.

Audio output is relatively easy, and can be done with pygame and
probably a few other libraries. If JACK works out, you wouldn't need
that though.

-bob

From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Fri Oct 13 07:44:45 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 07:44:45 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <AC11B3D7-B965-40CA-AF3A-A1B4A231CD38@livingcode.org>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
	<E86BB4B8-2C06-4E75-A411-43F4435AF175@mac.com>
	<0B8F6395-E8BD-48AB-91D2-EC36356E8F7E@livingcode.org>
	<AC597414-B5C8-496C-B520-766767E18568@mac.com>
	<6a36e7290610121344g6a3987dbn1dbcc65fb9c389b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<2C5979D8-F569-4CCB-9B10-0C29BD4ED461@livingcode.org>
	<C476A779-8BDC-4CEA-9A66-921A5F467FD3@mac.com>
	<871BB456-7EC5-4B6D-91D5-AEDF7D9F2EEC@livingcode.org>
	<5D001845-754C-4374-A45A-23DE16B622B9@mac.com>
	<AC11B3D7-B965-40CA-AF3A-A1B4A231CD38@livingcode.org>
Message-ID: <B9EBF4A7-5784-4880-A5E5-C84DE285F04A@mac.com>


On Oct 13, 2006, at 1:15 AM, Dethe Elza wrote:


>
> So still no idea why it's working for you, but not for me.   
> Anything else you can think of?  I followed the instructions in the  
> py2app docs for removing old versions of py2app.  If everything is  
> encapsulated in the .egg, perhaps I can revert to the earlier  
> version that worked?

Reverting to an older version should work as well, with the caveat  
that the latest pre-setuptools version of py2app has some problems  
w.r.t. universal binaries (which is why Bob switched to the current  
version).

I'm going to do a fresh install of Python, PyObjC and py2app to see  
if that helps to find the problem, but don't have time to do so today.

One thing that you could try:  insert 'import sys; print sys.path' at  
the top of __boot__.py (in the Resources directory of the saver) to  
see the value of sys.path. That value seems to be wrong.

Ronald

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From delza at livingcode.org  Fri Oct 13 19:35:41 2006
From: delza at livingcode.org (Dethe Elza)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 10:35:41 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <B9EBF4A7-5784-4880-A5E5-C84DE285F04A@mac.com>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
	<E86BB4B8-2C06-4E75-A411-43F4435AF175@mac.com>
	<0B8F6395-E8BD-48AB-91D2-EC36356E8F7E@livingcode.org>
	<AC597414-B5C8-496C-B520-766767E18568@mac.com>
	<6a36e7290610121344g6a3987dbn1dbcc65fb9c389b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<2C5979D8-F569-4CCB-9B10-0C29BD4ED461@livingcode.org>
	<C476A779-8BDC-4CEA-9A66-921A5F467FD3@mac.com>
	<871BB456-7EC5-4B6D-91D5-AEDF7D9F2EEC@livingcode.org>
	<5D001845-754C-4374-A45A-23DE16B622B9@mac.com>
	<AC11B3D7-B965-40CA-AF3A-A1B4A231CD38@livingcode.org>
	<B9EBF4A7-5784-4880-A5E5-C84DE285F04A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BC1221B8-A32A-49D9-BE45-2BC7BAE903E5@livingcode.org>

On 12-Oct-06, at 10:44 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:

> Reverting to an older version should work as well, with the caveat  
> that the latest pre-setuptools version of py2app has some problems  
> w.r.t. universal binaries (which is why Bob switched to the current  
> version).

OK, well I need universal binaries, so I'll try to move forward  
rather than backward.

> I'm going to do a fresh install of Python, PyObjC and py2app to see  
> if that helps to find the problem, but don't have time to do so today.

I appreciate the time you've put into this.

> One thing that you could try:  insert 'import sys; print sys.path'  
> at the top of __boot__.py (in the Resources directory of the saver)  
> to see the value of sys.path. That value seems to be wrong.

This is a very good clue.  Here is the sys.path from a working  
application built with the same version(s) of all the tools:

'/Users/delza/sampleapp/dist/sample.app/Contents/Resources', '/Users/ 
delza/sampleapp/dist/sample.app/Contents/Resources', '/Users/delza/ 
sampleapp/dist/sample.app/Contents/Resources/lib/python24.zip', '/ 
Users/delza/sampleapp/dist/sample.app/Contents/Resources/lib/ 
python2.4', '/Users/delza/sampleapp/dist/sample.app/Contents/ 
Resources/lib/python2.4/plat-darwin', '/Users/delza/sampleapp/dist/ 
sample.app/Contents/Resources/lib/python2.4/plat-mac', '/Users/delza/ 
sampleapp/dist/sample.app/Contents/Resources/lib/python2.4/plat-mac/ 
lib-scriptpackages', '/Users/delza/sampleapp/dist/sample.app/Contents/ 
Resources/lib/python2.4/lib-tk', '/Users/delza/sampleapp/dist/ 
sample.app/Contents/Resources/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload', '/Users/ 
delza/sampleapp/dist/sample.app/Contents/Resources/lib/python2.4/site- 
packages.zip'

And here is the sys.path from a plugin:

'/Users/delza/Library/Screen Savers/PastelsView.saver/Contents/ 
Resources', '/Users/delza/Library/Screen Savers/PastelsView.saver/ 
Contents/Resources', '/Users/delza/Library/Screen Savers/ 
PastelsView.saver/Contents/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/ 
lib/python24.zip', '/Users/delza/Library/Screen Savers/ 
PastelsView.saver/Contents/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/ 
lib/python2.4/', '/Users/delza/Library/Screen Savers/ 
PastelsView.saver/Contents/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/ 
lib/python2.4/plat-darwin', '/Users/delza/Library/Screen Savers/ 
PastelsView.saver/Contents/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/ 
lib/python2.4/plat-mac', '/Users/delza/Library/Screen Savers/ 
PastelsView.saver/Contents/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/ 
lib/python2.4/plat-mac/lib-scriptpackages', '/Users/delza/Library/ 
Screen Savers/PastelsView.saver/Contents/Frameworks/Python.framework/ 
Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/lib-tk', '/Users/delza/Library/Screen  
Savers/PastelsView.saver/Contents/Frameworks/Python.framework/ 
Versions/2.4/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload'

Since the ../Contents/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/  
directory does not contain a lib directory, these paths are broken.   
I'm trying to track down where they are set, which appears to be in  
the bootstrap Objective-C code for setting the RESOURCEPATH  
environment variable.  Does that sound reasonable?

--Dethe


"We have now become a people who believe that wishing for things  
makes them happen. Unfortunately, the world just doesn't work that  
way. The truth is that no combination of alternative fuels or so- 
called renewables will allow us to run the U.S.A. -- or even a  
substantial fraction of it -- the way that we're running it now." -- 
James Howard Kunstler



From kevin at macosx.com  Fri Oct 13 21:16:13 2006
From: kevin at macosx.com (kevin parks)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:16:13 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Support for live audio I/O via Python on Mac?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4.1160733602.17638.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
References: <mailman.4.1160733602.17638.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
Message-ID: <452FE5FD.1000008@macosx.com>

I use RTCmix to do real time audio on a Mac w/ Python

http://rtcmix.org/

>
> Subject:
> Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Support for live audio I/O via Python on Mac?
> From:
> "Bob Ippolito" <bob at redivi.com>
> Date:
> Thu, 12 Oct 2006 20:04:25 -0700
> To:
> "Jeff Rodman" <jrodman at mindspring.com>
>
> To:
> "Jeff Rodman" <jrodman at mindspring.com>
> CC:
> pythonmac-sig at python.org
>
>
> On 10/12/06, Jeff Rodman <jrodman at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>   is there a simple, current Python module for controlling the audio
>> in/out devices on Mac OSX (Python 2.5, OSX 10.4.8, PowerMac at the
>> moment but Intel is possible), preferably in/out simultaneously?
>> I've visited the main sites and lists, I think, but not found a basic
>> answer.  "audioop" in the Standard Library manipulates files but does
>> not play/record, "ossaudiodev" does not seem to be included in the
>> actual Python install although documented in the Standard Library
>> manual, and I can't find a mac-targeted form of the "OSS" module over
>> at 4Front.  Just want to play and record short files, (I'll take any
>> format, .raw data or wav is fine) in real time for a acoustic
>> application.
>>
>> I'm sure there's a straightforward answer, I'm just missing it.
>> Thanks for any help!

From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Sun Oct 15 18:26:49 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:26:49 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <BC1221B8-A32A-49D9-BE45-2BC7BAE903E5@livingcode.org>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
	<E86BB4B8-2C06-4E75-A411-43F4435AF175@mac.com>
	<0B8F6395-E8BD-48AB-91D2-EC36356E8F7E@livingcode.org>
	<AC597414-B5C8-496C-B520-766767E18568@mac.com>
	<6a36e7290610121344g6a3987dbn1dbcc65fb9c389b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<2C5979D8-F569-4CCB-9B10-0C29BD4ED461@livingcode.org>
	<C476A779-8BDC-4CEA-9A66-921A5F467FD3@mac.com>
	<871BB456-7EC5-4B6D-91D5-AEDF7D9F2EEC@livingcode.org>
	<5D001845-754C-4374-A45A-23DE16B622B9@mac.com>
	<AC11B3D7-B965-40CA-AF3A-A1B4A231CD38@livingcode.org>
	<B9EBF4A7-5784-4880-A5E5-C84DE285F04A@mac.com>
	<BC1221B8-A32A-49D9-BE45-2BC7BAE903E5@livingcode.org>
Message-ID: <0EF2F52B-4A5E-4445-8663-5C41F47B090E@mac.com>


On Oct 13, 2006, at 7:35 PM, Dethe Elza wrote:


>
>> One thing that you could try:  insert 'import sys; print sys.path'  
>> at the top of __boot__.py (in the Resources directory of the  
>> saver) to see the value of sys.path. That value seems to be wrong.
>
> This is a very good clue.  Here is the sys.path from a working  
> application built with the same version(s) of all the tools:

I've done a clean install of python, py2app, PyObjC and related  
packages and can now reproduce your problem.

I hope I've also fixed the problem in revision 47 of py2app.  It  
turns out the app stub and bundle stub use a slightly different way  
to setup the python environment, which means the right python path  
must be set in the Info.plist for plugins but not for applications.

Setting up the right environment for plugins is also very hard, if  
not impossible to do completely correct: cpython just isn't designed  
for having several completely seperate interpreters in one  
application (and no, Py_NewInterpreter/Py_EndInterpreter don't  
count). Different plugin bundles with py2app will share part of the  
environment, such as having a shared sys.path.

Ronald
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From delza at livingcode.org  Sun Oct 15 20:23:03 2006
From: delza at livingcode.org (Dethe Elza)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 11:23:03 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <0EF2F52B-4A5E-4445-8663-5C41F47B090E@mac.com>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
	<E86BB4B8-2C06-4E75-A411-43F4435AF175@mac.com>
	<0B8F6395-E8BD-48AB-91D2-EC36356E8F7E@livingcode.org>
	<AC597414-B5C8-496C-B520-766767E18568@mac.com>
	<6a36e7290610121344g6a3987dbn1dbcc65fb9c389b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<2C5979D8-F569-4CCB-9B10-0C29BD4ED461@livingcode.org>
	<C476A779-8BDC-4CEA-9A66-921A5F467FD3@mac.com>
	<871BB456-7EC5-4B6D-91D5-AEDF7D9F2EEC@livingcode.org>
	<5D001845-754C-4374-A45A-23DE16B622B9@mac.com>
	<AC11B3D7-B965-40CA-AF3A-A1B4A231CD38@livingcode.org>
	<B9EBF4A7-5784-4880-A5E5-C84DE285F04A@mac.com>
	<BC1221B8-A32A-49D9-BE45-2BC7BAE903E5@livingcode.org>
	<0EF2F52B-4A5E-4445-8663-5C41F47B090E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <A3D0BA2F-E1FF-465C-8240-178F95262D16@livingcode.org>

On 15-Oct-06, at 9:26 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:

> I've done a clean install of python, py2app, PyObjC and related  
> packages and can now reproduce your problem.

Thanks so much!

> I hope I've also fixed the problem in revision 47 of py2app.  It  
> turns out the app stub and bundle stub use a slightly different way  
> to setup the python environment, which means the right python path  
> must be set in the Info.plist for plugins but not for applications.

That did it, it's working beautifully now.

> Setting up the right environment for plugins is also very hard, if  
> not impossible to do completely correct: cpython just isn't  
> designed for having several completely seperate interpreters in one  
> application (and no, Py_NewInterpreter/Py_EndInterpreter don't  
> count). Different plugin bundles with py2app will share part of the  
> environment, such as having a shared sys.path.

So does that mean that I shouldn't run two Python plugins in the same  
program, or that I need to be careful that they have the same  
dependencies, or that the first contains all the dependencies of  
subsequent plugins, or what?  I'm just trying to understand here.

> Ronald

Thanks again for taking the time to fix this.

--Dethe

"Computers are beyond dumb, they're mind-numbingly stupid. They're  
hostile, rigid, capricious, and unforgiving. They're impossibly  
demanding and they never learn anything." -- John R. Levine



From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Sun Oct 15 22:07:20 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 22:07:20 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <A3D0BA2F-E1FF-465C-8240-178F95262D16@livingcode.org>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
	<E86BB4B8-2C06-4E75-A411-43F4435AF175@mac.com>
	<0B8F6395-E8BD-48AB-91D2-EC36356E8F7E@livingcode.org>
	<AC597414-B5C8-496C-B520-766767E18568@mac.com>
	<6a36e7290610121344g6a3987dbn1dbcc65fb9c389b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<2C5979D8-F569-4CCB-9B10-0C29BD4ED461@livingcode.org>
	<C476A779-8BDC-4CEA-9A66-921A5F467FD3@mac.com>
	<871BB456-7EC5-4B6D-91D5-AEDF7D9F2EEC@livingcode.org>
	<5D001845-754C-4374-A45A-23DE16B622B9@mac.com>
	<AC11B3D7-B965-40CA-AF3A-A1B4A231CD38@livingcode.org>
	<B9EBF4A7-5784-4880-A5E5-C84DE285F04A@mac.com>
	<BC1221B8-A32A-49D9-BE45-2BC7BAE903E5@livingcode.org>
	<0EF2F52B-4A5E-4445-8663-5C41F47B090E@mac.com>
	<A3D0BA2F-E1FF-465C-8240-178F95262D16@livingcode.org>
Message-ID: <E88A1E54-0F46-4A92-8348-7EAC85755D6C@mac.com>


On Oct 15, 2006, at 8:23 PM, Dethe Elza wrote:

> On 15-Oct-06, at 9:26 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>
>> I've done a clean install of python, py2app, PyObjC and related  
>> packages and can now reproduce your problem.
>
> Thanks so much!
>
>> I hope I've also fixed the problem in revision 47 of py2app.  It  
>> turns out the app stub and bundle stub use a slightly different  
>> way to setup the python environment, which means the right python  
>> path must be set in the Info.plist for plugins but not for  
>> applications.
>
> That did it, it's working beautifully now.

Ok, nice to hear that.

>
>> Setting up the right environment for plugins is also very hard, if  
>> not impossible to do completely correct: cpython just isn't  
>> designed for having several completely seperate interpreters in  
>> one application (and no, Py_NewInterpreter/Py_EndInterpreter don't  
>> count). Different plugin bundles with py2app will share part of  
>> the environment, such as having a shared sys.path.
>
> So does that mean that I shouldn't run two Python plugins in the  
> same program, or that I need to be careful that they have the same  
> dependencies, or that the first contains all the dependencies of  
> subsequent plugins, or what?  I'm just trying to understand here.

If you have two python plugins for the same program they should at  
the very least use the same version of python, using different  
versions of python may or may not work.

I'd have to study the plugin main code to be absolutely sure, but  
AFAIK if plugins A and B both depend on package C they should depend  
on the same version of C because at runtime they will both use the  
version that's included in whichever of the plugins was loaded first.

If you can arrange for one of the plugins to be loaded first it would  
be useful to have that plugin include the Python framework and large  
extensions (like PyObjC). That way other plugins can stay very small  
and you don't get confusion on what gets loaded.

Ronald

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From delza at livingcode.org  Sun Oct 15 22:55:36 2006
From: delza at livingcode.org (Dethe Elza)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 13:55:36 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building plugins with py2app
In-Reply-To: <E88A1E54-0F46-4A92-8348-7EAC85755D6C@mac.com>
References: <C5C7C3CF-C3DC-40D9-998B-C108EDD56942@livingcode.org>
	<E86BB4B8-2C06-4E75-A411-43F4435AF175@mac.com>
	<0B8F6395-E8BD-48AB-91D2-EC36356E8F7E@livingcode.org>
	<AC597414-B5C8-496C-B520-766767E18568@mac.com>
	<6a36e7290610121344g6a3987dbn1dbcc65fb9c389b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<2C5979D8-F569-4CCB-9B10-0C29BD4ED461@livingcode.org>
	<C476A779-8BDC-4CEA-9A66-921A5F467FD3@mac.com>
	<871BB456-7EC5-4B6D-91D5-AEDF7D9F2EEC@livingcode.org>
	<5D001845-754C-4374-A45A-23DE16B622B9@mac.com>
	<AC11B3D7-B965-40CA-AF3A-A1B4A231CD38@livingcode.org>
	<B9EBF4A7-5784-4880-A5E5-C84DE285F04A@mac.com>
	<BC1221B8-A32A-49D9-BE45-2BC7BAE903E5@livingcode.org>
	<0EF2F52B-4A5E-4445-8663-5C41F47B090E@mac.com>
	<A3D0BA2F-E1FF-465C-8240-178F95262D16@livingcode.org>
	<E88A1E54-0F46-4A92-8348-7EAC85755D6C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <6956AA69-3764-457B-A157-0FEC606DDE60@livingcode.org>

On 15-Oct-06, at 1:07 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:

> Ok, nice to hear that.

PyObjC has changed my life for the better, and I'm still just  
scratching the surface.  The hard part is that I've become dependent  
on it, so when something doesn't work, everything I'm doing comes to  
a screeching halt.  I can't tell you how much I appreciate your quick  
responses in those cases.

> If you have two python plugins for the same program they should at  
> the very least use the same version of python, using different  
> versions of python may or may not work.

OK, I generally rebuild my plugins with the latest versions of  
everything anyway, but good to know.

> I'd have to study the plugin main code to be absolutely sure, but  
> AFAIK if plugins A and B both depend on package C they should  
> depend on the same version of C because at runtime they will both  
> use the version that's included in whichever of the plugins was  
> loaded first.

That shouldn't be a problem.

> If you can arrange for one of the plugins to be loaded first it  
> would be useful to have that plugin include the Python framework  
> and large extensions (like PyObjC). That way other plugins can stay  
> very small and you don't get confusion on what gets loaded.

Have you seen SIMBL?  It's an input manager that loads plugins, so  
you can load arbitrary code into an existing application (kind of a  
gross hack, I know, but terribly useful when code injection wasn't  
working on Intel).  The neat thing about it is how it is configured  
to only load plugins for certain applications, and only for specified  
versions of those applications.  Having a meta-plugin for Python that  
did something similar would be cool.  I think there is something like  
that for Quicksilver, but it would be nice to generalize for other  
plugins.

Someday, in all my copious free time, I may even attempt it myself.  %-)

> Ronald

Thanks again!

--Dethe

"the city carries such a cargo of pathos and longing
  that daily life there vaccinates us against revelation"
  -- Pain Not Bread, The Rise and Fall of Human Breath


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Oct 15 23:43:30 2006
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 16:43:30 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Pysqlite build problem
Message-ID: <17714.43906.841444.115520@montanaro.dyndns.org>

I'm trying to get pysqlite 2.3.2 built on my Mac (OSX 10.4.8, gcc-4.0,
Python 2.4.4c1).  Sqlite built and installed into /usr/local just fine.  I
adjusted setup.cfg appropriately:

    [build_ext]
    define=
    include_dirs=/usr/local/include:/usr/include
    library_dirs=/usr/local/lib:/usr/lib
    libraries=sqlite3

and tried building:

    running build
    running build_py
    creating build
    creating build/lib.macosx-10.3-fat-2.4
    creating build/lib.macosx-10.3-fat-2.4/pysqlite2
    copying pysqlite2/__init__.py -> build/lib.macosx-10.3-fat-2.4/pysqlite2
    copying pysqlite2/dbapi2.py -> build/lib.macosx-10.3-fat-2.4/pysqlite2
    creating build/lib.macosx-10.3-fat-2.4/pysqlite2/test
    copying pysqlite2/test/__init__.py -> build/lib.macosx-10.3-fat-2.4/pysqlite2/test
    copying pysqlite2/test/dbapi.py -> build/lib.macosx-10.3-fat-2.4/pysqlite2/test
    copying pysqlite2/test/factory.py -> build/lib.macosx-10.3-fat-2.4/pysqlite2/test
    copying pysqlite2/test/hooks.py -> build/lib.macosx-10.3-fat-2.4/pysqlite2/test
    copying pysqlite2/test/regression.py -> build/lib.macosx-10.3-fat-2.4/pysqlite2/test
    copying pysqlite2/test/transactions.py -> build/lib.macosx-10.3-fat-2.4/pysqlite2/test
    copying pysqlite2/test/types.py -> build/lib.macosx-10.3-fat-2.4/pysqlite2/test
    copying pysqlite2/test/userfunctions.py -> build/lib.macosx-10.3-fat-2.4/pysqlite2/test
    running build_ext
    building 'pysqlite2._sqlite' extension
    creating build/temp.macosx-10.3-fat-2.4
    creating build/temp.macosx-10.3-fat-2.4/src
    gcc -arch ppc -arch i386 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-long-double -no-cpp-precomp -mno-fused-madd -fno-common -dynamic -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -DMODULE_NAME="pysqlite2.dbapi2" -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/include -I/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/include/python2.4 -c src/module.c -o build/temp.macosx-10.3-fat-2.4/src/module.o
    In file included from /usr/include/math.h:28,
                     from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/include/python2.4/pyport.h:94,
                     from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/include/python2.4/Python.h:55,
                     from src/connection.h:26,
                     from src/module.c:24:
    /usr/include/architecture/i386/math.h:439: warning: conflicting types for built-in function 'scalb'
    In file included from /usr/include/math.h:26,
                     from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/include/python2.4/pyport.h:94,
                     from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/include/python2.4/Python.h:55,
                     from src/connection.h:26,
                     from src/module.c:24:
    /usr/include/architecture/ppc/math.h:477: warning: conflicting types for built-in function 'scalb'
    In file included from /usr/include/wchar.h:112,
                     from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/include/python2.4/unicodeobject.h:118,
                     from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/include/python2.4/Python.h:81,
                     from src/connection.h:26In file included from /usr/include/wchar.h:112,
                     from src/module.c:24:
    ,
                     from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/include/python2.4/unicodeobject.h:118/usr/include/stdarg.h:4:25:,
                     from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/include/python2.4/Python.h:81 ,
                     from src/connection.h:26error: ,
                     from src/module.c:24:
    stdarg.h: No such file or directory/usr/include/stdarg.h:4:25:
     error: stdarg.h: No such file or directory
    lipo: can't figure out the architecture type of: /var/tmp//ccofOA40.out
    error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

It seems the compile is failing on the

    #include_next <stdarg.h>

line in /usr/include/stdarg.h.  Running find against /usr indicates that
there are several 4.0 versions of stdarg.h:

    /usr/include/gcc/darwin/3.3/stdarg.h
    /usr/include/stdarg.h
    /usr/lib/gcc/i686-apple-darwin8/4.0.0/include/stdarg.h
    /usr/lib/gcc/i686-apple-darwin8/4.0.0/install-tools/include/stdarg.h
    /usr/lib/gcc/powerpc-apple-darwin8/4.0.0/include/stdarg.h
    /usr/lib/gcc/powerpc-apple-darwin8/4.0.0/install-tools/include/stdarg.h

I tried reinstalling XCode 2 from the install disk, but I still don't see a
gcc 4.0 version of stdarg.h.  /usr/bin/gcc is a symlink to /usr/bin/gcc-4.0.
Software Update says my machine is up-to-date.

I must be missing something, but what?

Thx,

Skip

From skip at pobox.com  Mon Oct 16 03:37:05 2006
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 20:37:05 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Pysqlite build problem
In-Reply-To: <17714.43906.841444.115520@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <17714.43906.841444.115520@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <17714.57921.215055.385902@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    skip> I'm trying to get pysqlite 2.3.2 built on my Mac (OSX 10.4.8,
    skip> gcc-4.0, Python 2.4.4c1)....
    ...
    skip>     stdarg.h: No such file or directory/usr/include/stdarg.h:4:25:
    skip>      error: stdarg.h: No such file or directory

I updated setup.cfg to include /usr/lib/gcc/powerpc-apple-darwin8/4.0.0:

    [build_ext]
    define=
    include_dirs=/usr/lib/gcc/powerpc-apple-darwin8/4.0.0/include:/usr/local/include:/usr/include
    library_dirs=/usr/local/lib:/usr/lib/gcc/powerpc-apple-darwin8/4.0.0:/usr/lib
    libraries=sqlite3

Pysqlite builds with that change and passes all its tests.  What does it
take to get gcc to consider that directory by default?

Skip

From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Mon Oct 16 07:57:16 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 07:57:16 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Pysqlite build problem
In-Reply-To: <17714.43906.841444.115520@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <17714.43906.841444.115520@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <0C556A56-9615-4F18-B775-01BBAA339BE3@mac.com>


On Oct 15, 2006, at 11:43 PM, skip at pobox.com wrote:

> I'm trying to get pysqlite 2.3.2 built on my Mac (OSX 10.4.8, gcc-4.0,
> Python 2.4.4c1).  Sqlite built and installed into /usr/local just  
> fine.  I
> adjusted setup.cfg appropriately:
>
>     [build_ext]
>     define=
>     include_dirs=/usr/local/include:/usr/include
>     library_dirs=/usr/local/lib:/usr/lib
>     libraries=sqlite3

Why do you add /usr/include and /usr/lib to include_dirs and  
library_dirs? Those shouldn't be necessary. The default compiler  
flags include '-isysroot ...' which picks up the system includes from  
an SDK, I wouldn't be surprised if mixing -isysroot with -I/usr/ 
include causes problems.

Ronald

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From skip at pobox.com  Mon Oct 16 13:08:14 2006
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 06:08:14 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Pysqlite build problem
In-Reply-To: <0C556A56-9615-4F18-B775-01BBAA339BE3@mac.com>
References: <17714.43906.841444.115520@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<0C556A56-9615-4F18-B775-01BBAA339BE3@mac.com>
Message-ID: <17715.26654.675013.534073@montanaro.dyndns.org>

>>>>> "Ronald" == Ronald Oussoren <ronaldoussoren at mac.com> writes:

    Ronald> On Oct 15, 2006, at 11:43 PM, skip at pobox.com wrote:

    >> I'm trying to get pysqlite 2.3.2 built on my Mac (OSX 10.4.8, gcc-4.0,
    >> Python 2.4.4c1).  Sqlite built and installed into /usr/local just  
    >> fine.  I
    >> adjusted setup.cfg appropriately:
    >> 
    >> [build_ext]
    >> define=
    >> include_dirs=/usr/local/include:/usr/include
    >> library_dirs=/usr/local/lib:/usr/lib
    >> libraries=sqlite3

    Ronald> Why do you add /usr/include and /usr/lib to include_dirs and
    Ronald> library_dirs? 

I didn't add them.  They were there by default.  I believe I tried taking
them out leaving just /usr/local/* and the results were worse.

I'll go back and give it another try when I have a chance.

Skip

From kw at kevin-walzer.com  Mon Oct 16 17:43:51 2006
From: kw at kevin-walzer.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:43:51 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Build/install framework Python in non-standard
	location
Message-ID: <4533A8B7.3040900@kevin-walzer.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi,

I'm trying to build a framework Python 2.5 that installs to a
non-standard location (/usr/local/python-unix-framework). The reason I'm
doing this is to link to an X11-based version of Tcl/Tk, and still be
able to use py2app for app deployment. (I have previously been able to
build a standard non-framework Python that links to an X11-based Tcl/Tk,
but the resulting binaries cannot be wrapped via py2app, and the other
wrapping tools--freeze, cx_freeze, pyinstaller--don't work well or at
all on OS X.)

I thought that using these build flags would work:

./configure --enable-framework --enable-universalsdk
- --prefix=/usr/local/python-unix-framework

Everything built fine, but when I ran sudo make install, everything
started getting placed in /Library/Frameworks. This isn't what I
wanted--that's where the official build of Python 2.5 from python.org is
installed (and which links to Tcl/Tk Aqua). I need the second
installation to test the X11 version of my application, and the official
installation to test the Aqua version.

What do I need to hack to get the frameworks to install in my preferred
location, instead of the default? And why doesn't Python pick up the
./configure flags correctly anyway?

- --Kevin

- --
Kevin Walzer
Poetic Code
http://www.kevin-walzer.com
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From bob at redivi.com  Mon Oct 16 18:18:06 2006
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 09:18:06 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Build/install framework Python in non-standard
	location
In-Reply-To: <4533A8B7.3040900@kevin-walzer.com>
References: <4533A8B7.3040900@kevin-walzer.com>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290610160918h75811520n130a25f80ae323e0@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/16/06, Kevin Walzer <kw at kevin-walzer.com> wrote:
>
> I'm trying to build a framework Python 2.5 that installs to a
> non-standard location (/usr/local/python-unix-framework). The reason I'm
> doing this is to link to an X11-based version of Tcl/Tk, and still be
> able to use py2app for app deployment. (I have previously been able to
> build a standard non-framework Python that links to an X11-based Tcl/Tk,
> but the resulting binaries cannot be wrapped via py2app, and the other
> wrapping tools--freeze, cx_freeze, pyinstaller--don't work well or at
> all on OS X.)
>
> I thought that using these build flags would work:
>
> ./configure --enable-framework --enable-universalsdk
> - --prefix=/usr/local/python-unix-framework
>
> Everything built fine, but when I ran sudo make install, everything
> started getting placed in /Library/Frameworks. This isn't what I
> wanted--that's where the official build of Python 2.5 from python.org is
> installed (and which links to Tcl/Tk Aqua). I need the second
> installation to test the X11 version of my application, and the official
> installation to test the Aqua version.
>
> What do I need to hack to get the frameworks to install in my preferred
> location, instead of the default? And why doesn't Python pick up the
> ./configure flags correctly anyway?

It does pick up the configure flags correctly, but you need to pass
the correct configure flags.

If you'd have used --help you'd have seen that --enable-framework
takes a path, which defaults to /Library/Frameworks. If you want it to
go somewhere else, give it a different path.

-bob

From kw at kevin-walzer.com  Mon Oct 16 21:11:22 2006
From: kw at kevin-walzer.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:11:22 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Build/install framework Python in non-standard
 location
In-Reply-To: <6a36e7290610160918h75811520n130a25f80ae323e0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4533A8B7.3040900@kevin-walzer.com>
	<6a36e7290610160918h75811520n130a25f80ae323e0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4533D95A.50300@kevin-walzer.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Bob Ippolito wrote:
> On 10/16/06, Kevin Walzer <kw at kevin-walzer.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm trying to build a framework Python 2.5 that installs to a
>> non-standard location (/usr/local/python-unix-framework). The reason I'm
>> doing this is to link to an X11-based version of Tcl/Tk, and still be
>> able to use py2app for app deployment. (I have previously been able to
>> build a standard non-framework Python that links to an X11-based Tcl/Tk,
>> but the resulting binaries cannot be wrapped via py2app, and the other
>> wrapping tools--freeze, cx_freeze, pyinstaller--don't work well or at
>> all on OS X.)
>>
>> I thought that using these build flags would work:
>>
>> ./configure --enable-framework --enable-universalsdk
>> - --prefix=/usr/local/python-unix-framework
>>
>> Everything built fine, but when I ran sudo make install, everything
>> started getting placed in /Library/Frameworks. This isn't what I
>> wanted--that's where the official build of Python 2.5 from python.org is
>> installed (and which links to Tcl/Tk Aqua). I need the second
>> installation to test the X11 version of my application, and the official
>> installation to test the Aqua version.
>>
>> What do I need to hack to get the frameworks to install in my preferred
>> location, instead of the default? And why doesn't Python pick up the
>> ./configure flags correctly anyway?
> 
> It does pick up the configure flags correctly, but you need to pass
> the correct configure flags.
> 
> If you'd have used --help you'd have seen that --enable-framework
> takes a path, which defaults to /Library/Frameworks. If you want it to
> go somewhere else, give it a different path.
> 
> -bob
> 
> 
That worked, thanks.

For what it's worth, this method still installed the application bits in
/Application/MacPython 2.5--but I was able to restore the correct
versions from the official MacPython installer.


- --
Kevin Walzer
Poetic Code
http://www.kevin-walzer.com
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From benoit.dupont at gmail.com  Mon Oct 16 22:50:59 2006
From: benoit.dupont at gmail.com (Benoit Dupont)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 22:50:59 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problem with installation of Imaging (pil)
Message-ID: <9FC7CD52-E160-4971-A26E-44ED1B96200D@gmail.com>

Hello,

I want to install the Imaging (pil) library on a Mac OS X machine,  
but I need your help, cause I have the following problem when I try  
to build the lib using python setup.py install

  python setup.py install

running install
running build
running build_py
running build_ext
--- using frameworks at /System/Library/Frameworks
building '_imaging' extension
gcc -arch ppc -arch i386 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk - 
fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-long-double -no-cpp-precomp -mno-fused-madd - 
fno-common -dynamic -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -DHAVE_LIBJPEG -DHAVE_LIBZ -I/ 
System/Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Headers -I/System/Library/ 
Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers -IlibImaging -I/opt/local/include -I/ 
Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/include -I/usr/local/ 
include -I/usr/include -I/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/ 
Versions/2.5/include/python2.5 -c _imaging.c -o build/ 
temp.macosx-10.3-fat-2.5/_imaging.o
In file included from /usr/include/math.h:26,
                  from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/ 
2.5/include/python2.5/pyport.h:200,
                  from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/ 
2.5/include/python2.5/Python.h:57,
                  from _imaging.c:74:
/usr/include/architecture/ppc/math.h:477: warning: conflicting types  
for built-in function 'scalb'
In file included from /usr/include/wchar.h:112In file included from / 
usr/include/wchar.h:112,
                  from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/ 
2.5/include/python2.5/unicodeobject.h:118,
                  from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/ 
2.5/include/python2.5/Python.h:83,
                  from _imaging.c:74:
/usr/include/stdarg.h:4:25: error: stdarg.h: No such file or directory,
                  from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/ 
2.5/include/python2.5/unicodeobject.h:118,
                  from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/ 
2.5/include/python2.5/Python.h:83,
                  from _imaging.c:74:
/usr/include/stdarg.h:4:25: error: stdarg.h: No such file or directory

_imaging.c:2765: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
_imaging.c:2767: warning: 'intargfunc' is deprecated
_imaging.c:2767: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer  
type_imaging.c:2765: warning: initialization from incompatible  
pointer type
_imaging.c:2767: warning: 'intargfunc' is deprecated
_imaging.c:2767: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
_imaging.c:2768: warning: 'intargfunc' is deprecated
_imaging.c:2768: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
_imaging.c:2769: warning: 'intintargfunc' is deprecated
_imaging.c:2769: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
_imaging.c:2770: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
_imaging.c:2771: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type

_imaging.c:2768: warning: 'intargfunc' is deprecated
_imaging.c:2768: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
_imaging.c:2769: warning: 'intintargfunc' is deprecated
_imaging.c:2769: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
_imaging.c:2770: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
_imaging.c:2771: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
lipo: can't figure out the architecture type of: /var/tmp//ccV3P1kE.out


**********

When i try python setup.py build_ext -i, and 've got the following  
message...

benoit-duponts-computer:~/Documents/2?me license/IA/Python/ 
Imaging-1.1.5 benoitdupont$ python setup.py build_ext -i
running build_ext
--- using frameworks at /System/Library/Frameworks
building '_imaging' extension
gcc -arch ppc -arch i386 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk - 
fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-long-double -no-cpp-precomp -mno-fused-madd - 
fno-common -dynamic -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -DHAVE_LIBJPEG -DHAVE_LIBZ -I/ 
System/Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Headers -I/System/Library/ 
Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers -IlibImaging -I/opt/local/include -I/ 
Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/include -I/usr/local/ 
include -I/usr/include -I/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/ 
Versions/2.5/include/python2.5 -c _imaging.c -o build/ 
temp.macosx-10.3-fat-2.5/_imaging.o
In file included from /usr/include/math.h:26,
                  from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/ 
2.5/include/python2.5/pyport.h:200,
                  from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/ 
2.5/include/python2.5/Python.h:57,
                  from _imaging.c:74:
/usr/include/architecture/ppc/math.h:477: warning: conflicting types  
for built-in function 'scalb'
In file included from /usr/include/wchar.h:112,
                  from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/ 
2.5/include/python2.5/unicodeobject.h:118,
                  from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/ 
2.5/include/python2.5/Python.h:83,
                  from _imaging.c:74:
/usr/include/stdarg.h:4:25: error: stdarg.h: No such file or directory
In file included from /usr/include/wchar.h:112,
                  from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/ 
2.5/include/python2.5/unicodeobject.h:118,
                  from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/ 
2.5/include/python2.5/Python.h:83,
                  from _imaging.c:74:
/usr/include/stdarg.h:4:25: error: stdarg.h: No such file or directory
_imaging.c:2765: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
_imaging.c:2767: warning: 'intargfunc' is deprecated
_imaging.c:2767: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
_imaging.c:2768: warning: 'intargfunc' is deprecated
_imaging.c:2768: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
_imaging.c:2769: warning: 'intintargfunc' is deprecated
_imaging.c:2769: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
_imaging.c:2770: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
_imaging.c:2771: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
_imaging.c:2765: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
_imaging.c:2767: warning: 'intargfunc' is deprecated
_imaging.c:2767: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
_imaging.c:2768: warning: 'intargfunc' is deprecated
_imaging.c:2768: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
_imaging.c:2769: warning: 'intintargfunc' is deprecated
_imaging.c:2769: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
_imaging.c:2770: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
_imaging.c:2771: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
lipo: can't figure out the architecture type of: /var/tmp//ccpJYQST.out
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
benoit-duponts-computer:~/Documents/2?me license/IA/Python/ 
Imaging-1.1.5 benoitdupont$

**************************
I try to search on the web during three days, but nothing work. Can  
you help me? I install last version of darwin, and png and jpeg  
libraries. I can compile and run normally other python programmes,  
whith eclipse environnement, and I installed python from the cds of  
my MacBook 10.4.8

Thank you

Ben

From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Tue Oct 17 07:58:18 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 07:58:18 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problem with installation of Imaging (pil)
In-Reply-To: <9FC7CD52-E160-4971-A26E-44ED1B96200D@gmail.com>
References: <9FC7CD52-E160-4971-A26E-44ED1B96200D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B3D64B58-3CCF-4D3F-9635-A7972E1A8526@mac.com>


On Oct 16, 2006, at 10:50 PM, Benoit Dupont wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I want to install the Imaging (pil) library on a Mac OS X machine,
> but I need your help, cause I have the following problem when I try
> to build the lib using python setup.py install

Do you have the 10.4 universal SDK installed? If you have that ' / 
Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk' exists on you machine. If that  
directory doesn't exist you should reinstall Xcode and use the  
'Customize...' button during installation to select the 10.4u SDK.

Ronald
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From altern2 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 17 18:13:50 2006
From: altern2 at gmail.com (altern)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 18:13:50 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Support for live audio I/O via Python on Mac?
In-Reply-To: <452FE5FD.1000008@macosx.com>
References: <mailman.4.1160733602.17638.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<452FE5FD.1000008@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <4535013E.3060501@gmail.com>

there are also some python interface to Supercollider programming 
language. I think it is http://www.patrickkidd.com/
I havent used it myself so i cannot really say much about it.

btw, kevin, how do you find RTCmix? have you tried in other platforms 
than osx?

enrike


kevin parks escribi?:
> I use RTCmix to do real time audio on a Mac w/ Python
> 
> http://rtcmix.org/
> 
>> Subject:
>> Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Support for live audio I/O via Python on Mac?
>> From:
>> "Bob Ippolito" <bob at redivi.com>
>> Date:
>> Thu, 12 Oct 2006 20:04:25 -0700
>> To:
>> "Jeff Rodman" <jrodman at mindspring.com>
>>
>> To:
>> "Jeff Rodman" <jrodman at mindspring.com>
>> CC:
>> pythonmac-sig at python.org
>>
>>
>> On 10/12/06, Jeff Rodman <jrodman at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>   is there a simple, current Python module for controlling the audio
>>> in/out devices on Mac OSX (Python 2.5, OSX 10.4.8, PowerMac at the
>>> moment but Intel is possible), preferably in/out simultaneously?
>>> I've visited the main sites and lists, I think, but not found a basic
>>> answer.  "audioop" in the Standard Library manipulates files but does
>>> not play/record, "ossaudiodev" does not seem to be included in the
>>> actual Python install although documented in the Standard Library
>>> manual, and I can't find a mac-targeted form of the "OSS" module over
>>> at 4Front.  Just want to play and record short files, (I'll take any
>>> format, .raw data or wav is fine) in real time for a acoustic
>>> application.
>>>
>>> I'm sure there's a straightforward answer, I'm just missing it.
>>> Thanks for any help!
> _______________________________________________
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
> 


From kevin at macosx.com  Wed Oct 18 02:47:38 2006
From: kevin at macosx.com (kevin parks)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:47:38 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Support for live audio I/O via Python on Mac?
In-Reply-To: <4535013E.3060501@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.4.1160733602.17638.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<452FE5FD.1000008@macosx.com> <4535013E.3060501@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <453579AA.9050102@macosx.com>

altern wrote:
> there are also some python interface to Supercollider programming 
> language. I think it is http://www.patrickkidd.com/

That is AWESOME~ wow... Can't wait to try it. I used Supercollider about 
10 years ago and did a lot of work in 1.x
and 2.x and then just got discouraged as i HATE the syntax with a fiery 
passion. It is nasty brackets braces parens
and semicolons everywhere.  Makes purl look clean. Plus it was a moving 
target patches you wrote under 1.x had
to be rewritten in 2.x and then 3.x came out and that was abandoned for 
Supercollider server or some nonsense.
I through my arms up and RAN back to csound and cmix. ... But iffin i 
get get to those amazing unit generators (SC
has great great great sounding filters, oscils, etc. just amazing 
sounding stuff) without having to put up with macho
SC programmers and buttugly and confusing code, I am there. I am pumped 
for this. I really want to try it.


> I havent used it myself so i cannot really say much about it.

lemme know if you do.

> btw, kevin, how do you find RTCmix? have you tried in other platforms 
> than osx?
I have used in on Linux quite a bit and on OS X. It also runs inside of 
Max/MSP.
RTcmix is great, and has a nice but small following. It is good if you 
like the precompiled instruments.
But it is not easy to make your own, nor is it easy to do any virtual 
instrument design in it
since everything that is precompiled i too high level already... 
additionally the mixer "bus-config"
metaphor for making a signal chain is awkward. But i have done a bunch 
of stuff in RTcmix
and also have had much success reusing Python code inside it. If the 
python interface for SC
is not ready for prime time, i would say give RTcmix a try. It is easy 
to compile and lots of folks
are using it on OS X and Linux.


> enrike
>
>
> kevin parks escribi?:
>> I use RTCmix to do real time audio on a Mac w/ Python
>>
>> http://rtcmix.org/
>>
>>> Subject:
>>> Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Support for live audio I/O via Python on Mac?
>>> From:
>>> "Bob Ippolito" <bob at redivi.com>
>>> Date:
>>> Thu, 12 Oct 2006 20:04:25 -0700
>>> To:
>>> "Jeff Rodman" <jrodman at mindspring.com>
>>>
>>> To:
>>> "Jeff Rodman" <jrodman at mindspring.com>
>>> CC:
>>> pythonmac-sig at python.org
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/12/06, Jeff Rodman <jrodman at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>   is there a simple, current Python module for controlling the audio
>>>> in/out devices on Mac OSX (Python 2.5, OSX 10.4.8, PowerMac at the
>>>> moment but Intel is possible), preferably in/out simultaneously?
>>>> I've visited the main sites and lists, I think, but not found a basic
>>>> answer.  "audioop" in the Standard Library manipulates files but does
>>>> not play/record, "ossaudiodev" does not seem to be included in the
>>>> actual Python install although documented in the Standard Library
>>>> manual, and I can't find a mac-targeted form of the "OSS" module over
>>>> at 4Front.  Just want to play and record short files, (I'll take any
>>>> format, .raw data or wav is fine) in real time for a acoustic
>>>> application.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure there's a straightforward answer, I'm just missing it.
>>>> Thanks for any help!
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
>>
>


From altern2 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 18 10:51:30 2006
From: altern2 at gmail.com (altern)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 10:51:30 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Support for live audio I/O via Python on Mac?
In-Reply-To: <453579AA.9050102@macosx.com>
References: <mailman.4.1160733602.17638.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<452FE5FD.1000008@macosx.com> <4535013E.3060501@gmail.com>
	<453579AA.9050102@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <4535EB12.6090806@gmail.com>

kevin parks escribi?:
> altern wrote:
>> there are also some python interface to Supercollider programming 
>> language. I think it is http://www.patrickkidd.com/
> 
> That is AWESOME~ wow... Can't wait to try it. I used Supercollider about 
> 10 years ago and did a lot of work in 1.x
> and 2.x and then just got discouraged as i HATE the syntax with a fiery 
> passion. It is nasty brackets braces parens
> and semicolons everywhere.  Makes purl look clean. Plus it was a moving 
> target patches you wrote under 1.x had
> to be rewritten in 2.x and then 3.x came out and that was abandoned for 
> Supercollider server or some nonsense.
> I through my arms up and RAN back to csound and cmix. ... But iffin i 
> get get to those amazing unit generators (SC
> has great great great sounding filters, oscils, etc. just amazing 
> sounding stuff) without having to put up with macho
> SC programmers and buttugly and confusing code, I am there. I am pumped 
> for this. I really want to try it.

you read my mind :)
I never really used supercollider but everytime i give it a try i get 
put off by the syntax. I am habituated to python and this makes getting 
into sc syntax pretty difficult, i always give up.

I heard that james mcartney is planning to do version 4 and there might 
be some big changes again ... oh well ... this is what i heard, maybe it 
wont be as bad as the changes from sc2 to sc3.

But yes the quality of the sound processing is really good and this 
makes sc a very appealing tool. I have been always dreaming about a sc 
in python. I discovered www.patrickkidd.com very recently and i was 
going to explore this together with rtcmix next month and make a 
decision soon. For me it is also very important that the system is 
totally cross platform.

I have been using puredata up to now, i patch on puredata and then run 
it as a process in the background with the -nogui flag from python. It 
works quite ok on all platforms but because i use several externals, it 
is a bit tricky on linux because they must be compiled.

>> I havent used it myself so i cannot really say much about it.
> 
> lemme know if you do.

sure.

>> btw, kevin, how do you find RTCmix? have you tried in other platforms 
>> than osx?
> I have used in on Linux quite a bit and on OS X. It also runs inside of 
> Max/MSP.
> RTcmix is great, and has a nice but small following. It is good if you 
> like the precompiled instruments.
> But it is not easy to make your own, nor is it easy to do any virtual 
> instrument design in it
> since everything that is precompiled i too high level already... 
> additionally the mixer "bus-config"
> metaphor for making a signal chain is awkward. But i have done a bunch 
> of stuff in RTcmix
> and also have had much success reusing Python code inside it. If the 
> python interface for SC
> is not ready for prime time, i would say give RTcmix a try. It is easy 
> to compile and lots of folks
> are using it on OS X and Linux.

ok, thanks for the overview.

>> enrike
>>
>>
>> kevin parks escribi?:
>>> I use RTCmix to do real time audio on a Mac w/ Python
>>>
>>> http://rtcmix.org/
>>>
>>>> Subject:
>>>> Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Support for live audio I/O via Python on Mac?
>>>> From:
>>>> "Bob Ippolito" <bob at redivi.com>
>>>> Date:
>>>> Thu, 12 Oct 2006 20:04:25 -0700
>>>> To:
>>>> "Jeff Rodman" <jrodman at mindspring.com>
>>>>
>>>> To:
>>>> "Jeff Rodman" <jrodman at mindspring.com>
>>>> CC:
>>>> pythonmac-sig at python.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/12/06, Jeff Rodman <jrodman at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>>   is there a simple, current Python module for controlling the audio
>>>>> in/out devices on Mac OSX (Python 2.5, OSX 10.4.8, PowerMac at the
>>>>> moment but Intel is possible), preferably in/out simultaneously?
>>>>> I've visited the main sites and lists, I think, but not found a basic
>>>>> answer.  "audioop" in the Standard Library manipulates files but does
>>>>> not play/record, "ossaudiodev" does not seem to be included in the
>>>>> actual Python install although documented in the Standard Library
>>>>> manual, and I can't find a mac-targeted form of the "OSS" module over
>>>>> at 4Front.  Just want to play and record short files, (I'll take any
>>>>> format, .raw data or wav is fine) in real time for a acoustic
>>>>> application.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sure there's a straightforward answer, I'm just missing it.
>>>>> Thanks for any help!
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
>>>
>>
> 
> 


From emoy at apple.com  Wed Oct 18 02:14:34 2006
From: emoy at apple.com (Edward Moy)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:14:34 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Terminal to not have an application signature in
	Leopard
Message-ID: <06AA5B38-9F6A-43FF-A1CA-4B686719D481@apple.com>

Hi, all, I'm the maintainer of python at Apple.  There is a plan to  
remove Terminal's application signature 'trmx' in Leopard, to avoid  
some exploits that the application signature allows.  Apple Events  
can use the bundle ID (typeApplicationBundleID) instead, though this  
only works on 10.3 and later.

Unfortunately, the Apple Event modules in python don't define  
typeApplicationBundleID, so that isn't being used.  And while changes  
to Lib/plat-mac/terminalcommand.py and Mac/OSX/PythonLauncher/ 
doscript.m seem straightforward enough, it looks like application  
signatures are assumed by other modules.

Anyone have any comments/ideas about this?
---------------------------------------------------------------
Edward Moy
Apple


From hengist.podd at virgin.net  Wed Oct 18 14:40:52 2006
From: hengist.podd at virgin.net (has)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 13:40:52 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Terminal to not have an application signature
	in Leopard
In-Reply-To: <mailman.10.1161165603.2899.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
References: <mailman.10.1161165603.2899.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
Message-ID: <7E9CF14F-B26D-423F-B1D4-56FC5DF9CBB0@virgin.net>

Edward Moy wrote:

> Hi, all, I'm the maintainer of python at Apple.  There is a plan to  
> remove Terminal's application signature 'trmx' in Leopard, to avoid  
> some exploits that the application signature allows.  Apple Events  
> can use the bundle ID (typeApplicationBundleID) instead, though  
> this only works on 10.3 and later.
>
> Unfortunately, the Apple Event modules in python don't define  
> typeApplicationBundleID, so that isn't being used.  And while  
> changes to Lib/plat-mac/terminalcommand.py and Mac/OSX/ 
> PythonLauncher/doscript.m seem straightforward enough, it looks  
> like application signatures are assumed by other modules.
>
> Anyone have any comments/ideas about this?

Almost all of the high-level AE-related modules can be ignored as  
they are completely obsolete; additionally, some are broken on Tiger  
and most (all?) on i386. IIRC, the obsolete modules are:

aepack
aetools
aetypes
gensuitemodule
MiniAEFrame
findertools

AFAIK there are no plans to fix or maintain any of these as they've  
all been superceded by the appscript package. (Appscript uses  
AEAddressDescs of typeProcessSerialNumber and typeApplicationURL, btw.)

In addition, the argvemulator module was broken on i386 but this has  
been fixed in 2.5. I'm not sure if that patch has been applied to 2.4  
yet though; better ask Ronald.

I'm not sure offhand what the position is on Framework and W;  
probably also abandoned as they're obsolete and newer alternatives  
already exist. Several other modules are also a bit past it. There  
were moves afoot to go through plat-mac and flag all the obsolete/ 
broken stuff as deprecated in the 2.5 documentation, but  
unfortunately it didn't get done in time to make the cut. See the  
'Fixing the documentation' thread from April.

HTH

has
-- 
http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/
http://appscript.sourceforge.net
http://rb-appscript.rubyforge.org



From kw at kevin-walzer.com  Wed Oct 18 15:20:45 2006
From: kw at kevin-walzer.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:20:45 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Terminal to not have an application signature
 in Leopard
In-Reply-To: <7E9CF14F-B26D-423F-B1D4-56FC5DF9CBB0@virgin.net>
References: <mailman.10.1161165603.2899.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<7E9CF14F-B26D-423F-B1D4-56FC5DF9CBB0@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <45362A2D.2010707@kevin-walzer.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

has wrote:

> 
> I'm not sure offhand what the position is on Framework and W;  
> probably also abandoned as they're obsolete and newer alternatives  
> already exist. 

I'm pretty sure these depend on the WASTE library, which is obsolete.
The old PythonIDE and PackageManager were built using these frameworks
IIRC.

I hope EasyDialogs remains in Python, however (I have one application
that depends on it).

- --
Kevin Walzer
Poetic Code
http://www.kevin-walzer.com
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFFNiosrTC5hIgjqTMRAjWwAJ0boQsj/OyfEy9o09KHNwKmybPJJACfaM1q
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From hengist.podd at virgin.net  Wed Oct 18 17:51:34 2006
From: hengist.podd at virgin.net (has)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 16:51:34 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Terminal to not have an application signature
	in Leopard
In-Reply-To: <45362A2D.2010707@kevin-walzer.com>
References: <mailman.10.1161165603.2899.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<7E9CF14F-B26D-423F-B1D4-56FC5DF9CBB0@virgin.net>
	<45362A2D.2010707@kevin-walzer.com>
Message-ID: <E9E0C466-7B5D-4150-A0C1-3EC462CBBBCE@virgin.net>

On 18 Oct 2006, at 14:20, Kevin Walzer wrote:

> I hope EasyDialogs remains in Python, however (I have one application
> that depends on it).

A built-in module for basic message and file dialogs is useful. The  
current ED implementation needs work, however, as it doesn't fully  
support long strings and Unicode. This is a discussion for another  
thread though.

has
-- 
http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/
http://appscript.sourceforge.net
http://rb-appscript.rubyforge.org



From malkarouri at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Oct 19 04:27:25 2006
From: malkarouri at yahoo.co.uk (Muhammad Alkarouri)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 03:27:25 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] xcode problems
Message-ID: <20061019022725.96902.qmail@web27906.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi everyone,

I am a newbie in the Mac world, having bought my first Mac Mini a couple of
days ago. I promptly went on to find out about Python programming there.

I installed Python 2.5 from python.org, so I have it besides 2.3. I also
installed xcode 2.4. That is on OS X 10.4.8. Then I tried to follow "Using
PyObjC for Developing Cocoa Applications with Python". Here is where small
problems crop up. I would like to know the right solution about (some of) these
problems.

- Using xcode I followed the tutorial. I wasn't able to build. I get build
failed with No module named py2app. I understand this comes with PyObjC so I
tried to install that again. The installer for PyObjC 1.3.7 from
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/pyobjc/pyobjc-1.3.7-py2.3-macosx10.4.zip?download
gives me an error on import along the lines of unable to import due to "mach-o,
but wrong architecture". I tried PyObjC 1.4 from source but it wasn't able to
install due to a permission error. I didn't try to investigate that, especially
as there is no binary for python 2.3 so I figured that something was amiss.
Anyway, I tried to use Python 2.5.

- To use Python 2.5 I installed PyObjC 1.4. The installation went smoothly. I
had to modify setup.py to use /usr/local/bin/python following a hint somewhere
the internet. Now "Build and Go" wasn't working (why?). Following another hint
I mad a custom executable like "/usr/bin/env
PyAverager.app/Contents/MacOS/PyAverager". This is now working.

- The next problem is in the code itself. When trying to run the application
PyAverager I get an error:
PyAverager[3377] Unknown class `Averager' in nib file, using `NSObject' instead
...
NSUnknownKeyException - [<NSObject 0x1427590> valueForUndefinedKey:]: this
class is not key value coding-compliant for the key numbersInput

So the nib (whatever that is) cannot find the class Averager.
By going to the source of PyAverager I noticed that the Averager module is
imported indirectly, as in:

for pythonModule in info[u'Modules']:
    __import__(pythonModule)

If I do "import Averager" or "__import__('Averager')" after these lines the
application runs successfully. So I guess that info[u'Modules'] doesn't contain
'Averager'.

So the important questions for me now are:
- Is there anyway to automate the change of setup.py to use
/usr/local/bin/python at each new project, rather than doing it manually?
- Shouldn't "Build and Go" be working automatically? Or is there anyway to
automate the creation of the custom executable for each new python project?
- Why doesn't Averager in the example get imported automatically? Probably I
did something wrong here, but I don't know what.

These are my problems with Python 2.5. I guess I am not going to use Python 2.3
anyway, so it would be nice but not essential to know about the solution to my
problems with it.

Sorry for the long e-mail, but I figured that some of my problems might be
known issues and/or bugs as well, so I better document these for others.

Thanks a lot,

k

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 

From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Thu Oct 19 15:26:03 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:26:03 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Pysqlite build problem
In-Reply-To: <17714.43906.841444.115520@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <17714.43906.841444.115520@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <0D299C44-103A-4C90-88F7-704EB01E2EF9@mac.com>


On Oct 15, 2006, at 11:43 PM, skip at pobox.com wrote:

> I'm trying to get pysqlite 2.3.2 built on my Mac (OSX 10.4.8, gcc-4.0,
> Python 2.4.4c1).  Sqlite built and installed into /usr/local just  
> fine.  I
> adjusted setup.cfg appropriately:
>
>     [build_ext]
>     define=
>     include_dirs=/usr/local/include:/usr/include
>     library_dirs=/usr/local/lib:/usr/lib
>     libraries=sqlite3
>
> and tried building:
[... snip build trac]
>     stdarg.h: No such file or directory/usr/include/stdarg.h:4:25:
>      error: stdarg.h: No such file or directory
>     lipo: can't figure out the architecture type of: /var/tmp// 
> ccofOA40.out
>     error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
>
> It seems the compile is failing on the
>
>     #include_next <stdarg.h>
>
> line in /usr/include/stdarg.h.  Running find against /usr indicates  
> that
> there are several 4.0 versions of stdarg.h:
>
>     /usr/include/gcc/darwin/3.3/stdarg.h
>     /usr/include/stdarg.h
>     /usr/lib/gcc/i686-apple-darwin8/4.0.0/include/stdarg.h
>     /usr/lib/gcc/i686-apple-darwin8/4.0.0/install-tools/include/ 
> stdarg.h
>     /usr/lib/gcc/powerpc-apple-darwin8/4.0.0/include/stdarg.h
>     /usr/lib/gcc/powerpc-apple-darwin8/4.0.0/install-tools/include/ 
> stdarg.h
>
> I tried reinstalling XCode 2 from the install disk, but I still  
> don't see a
> gcc 4.0 version of stdarg.h.  /usr/bin/gcc is a symlink to /usr/bin/ 
> gcc-4.0.
> Software Update says my machine is up-to-date.
>
> I must be missing something, but what?

The 10.4u SDK. You have to install the MacOSX10.4u SDK. The easiest  
way to do that is to reinstall Xcode and make sure you select 10.4  
universal SDK on the 'customize...' page.

Ronald

>
> Thx,
>
> Skip
> _______________________________________________
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig

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From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Thu Oct 19 15:40:30 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:40:30 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] xcode problems
In-Reply-To: <20061019022725.96902.qmail@web27906.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <20061019022725.96902.qmail@web27906.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <44EA24DC-A2E7-4379-9A5E-DE158C5F6BD2@mac.com>


On Oct 19, 2006, at 4:27 AM, Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I am a newbie in the Mac world, having bought my first Mac Mini a  
> couple of
> days ago. I promptly went on to find out about Python programming  
> there.
>
> I installed Python 2.5 from python.org, so I have it besides 2.3. I  
> also
> installed xcode 2.4. That is on OS X 10.4.8. Then I tried to follow  
> "Using
> PyObjC for Developing Cocoa Applications with Python". Here is  
> where small
> problems crop up. I would like to know the right solution about  
> (some of) these
> problems.
>
> - Using xcode I followed the tutorial. I wasn't able to build. I  
> get build
> failed with No module named py2app. I understand this comes with  
> PyObjC so I
> tried to install that again. The installer for PyObjC 1.3.7 from
> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/pyobjc/pyobjc-1.3.7-py2.3- 
> macosx10.4.zip?download
> gives me an error on import along the lines of unable to import due  
> to "mach-o,
> but wrong architecture". I tried PyObjC 1.4 from source but it  
> wasn't able to
> install due to a permission error. I didn't try to investigate  
> that, especially
> as there is no binary for python 2.3 so I figured that something  
> was amiss.
> Anyway, I tried to use Python 2.5.

There currently is no proper binary installer for PyObjC. I hope to  
have some time soon to work on that, but don't hold your breath.

>
> - To use Python 2.5 I installed PyObjC 1.4. The installation went  
> smoothly. I
> had to modify setup.py to use /usr/local/bin/python following a  
> hint somewhere
> the internet. Now "Build and Go" wasn't working (why?). Following  
> another hint
> I mad a custom executable like "/usr/bin/env
> PyAverager.app/Contents/MacOS/PyAverager". This is now working.

I'd drop Xcode unless you already know it, Xcode can be used as a  
python editor but is really heavy-weight for what it offers to Python  
programmers (it's great for ObjC programming, but most of Xcode is  
closed for Python programmers).

>
> - The next problem is in the code itself. When trying to run the  
> application
> PyAverager I get an error:
> PyAverager[3377] Unknown class `Averager' in nib file, using  
> `NSObject' instead

Where did you find this example? It isn't part of the PyObjC  
distribution, so I can't help you here without further information.

> ...
> NSUnknownKeyException - [<NSObject 0x1427590>  
> valueForUndefinedKey:]: this
> class is not key value coding-compliant for the key numbersInput
>
> So the nib (whatever that is) cannot find the class Averager.

A nib file is the output format of Interface Builder, which is the  
GUI designer for OSX.  It is basically a pickled object graph for a GUI.
>
> So the important questions for me now are:
> - Is there anyway to automate the change of setup.py to use
> /usr/local/bin/python at each new project, rather than doing it  
> manually?

The 2.4.3, 2.4.4 and 2.5 installers for python should ensure that the  
right directory (which isn't /usr/local/bin b.t.w.) is on $PATH. What  
is your shell environment? I assume you use the default shell (bash),  
do you have any custom startup files  
(.profile, .bashrc, .bash_login, ...)?

> - Shouldn't "Build and Go" be working automatically? Or is there  
> anyway to
> automate the creation of the custom executable for each new python  
> project?

It would be nice if that button worked, but I don't have time to fix  
this. Making changes to the xcode templates is no fun, even if you do  
know how to do so  which I don't.

PyObjC is a bit in flux at the moment, we've transitioned to  
setuptools but never got around to completely finishing that  
transition, which explains the lack of binary installers.

Ronald

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From malkarouri at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Oct 20 08:29:41 2006
From: malkarouri at yahoo.co.uk (Muhammad Alkarouri)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 07:29:41 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] xcode problems
Message-ID: <20061020062941.31084.qmail@web27901.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

---  Ronald Oussoren wrote:
...
> I'd drop Xcode unless you already know it, Xcode can be used as a  
> python editor but is really heavy-weight for what it offers to Python  
> programmers (it's great for ObjC programming, but most of Xcode is  
> closed for Python programmers).

Noted. I am at the moment trying TextWrangler for editing Python. May be I will
revert to Idle.
[rant]
It is a shame, though. Xcode is a great python environment, as far as my
experience goes. It would be far more useful if it were open source.
[/rant]

> > - The next problem is in the code itself. When trying to run the  
> > application
> > PyAverager I get an error:
> > PyAverager[3377] Unknown class `Averager' in nib file, using  
> > `NSObject' instead
> 
> Where did you find this example? It isn't part of the PyObjC  
> distribution, so I can't help you here without further information.

Yes. This is the example from the Apple web site
(http://developer.apple.com/cocoa/pyobjc.html).
I did find the error, though, and it is an xcode peculiarity/bug. Namely, when
you create a new Python class file in xcode it doesn't get added to "Classes"
in the xcode project. You have to drag it there manually.

> > - Is there anyway to automate the change of setup.py to use
> > /usr/local/bin/python at each new project, rather than doing it  
> > manually?
> 
> The 2.4.3, 2.4.4 and 2.5 installers for python should ensure that the  
> right directory (which isn't /usr/local/bin b.t.w.) is on $PATH. What  
> is your shell environment? I assume you use the default shell (bash),  
> do you have any custom startup files  
> (.profile, .bashrc, .bash_login, ...)?

I have installed the Python 2.5 for OS X from python.org. And I have this now

==================
muhammad-alkarouris-computer:~ malkarouri$ which python
/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current/bin/python
muhammad-alkarouris-computer:~ malkarouri$ ls -l /usr/local/bin/python
lrwxr-xr-x   1 root  wheel  68 Oct 15 06:13 /usr/local/bin/python ->
../../../Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/bin/python
muhammad-alkarouris-computer:~ malkarouri$ echo $PATH
/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current/bin:/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/local/teTeX/bin/i386-apple-darwin-current
muhammad-alkarouris-computer:~ malkarouri$ cat .bash_profile 

# Setting PATH for MacPython 2.5
# The orginal version is saved in .bash_profile.pysave
PATH="/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current/bin:${PATH}"
export PATH
muhammad-alkarouris-computer:~ malkarouri$ 
==================

So, the installer did install /usr/local/bin/python. Through .bash_profile,
python2.5 is the default for my shell, while python2.3 is the default for
everything else. This is fine by me. I assume that is the right approach. Or is
there another installer?

> It would be nice if that button worked, but I don't have time to fix  
> this. Making changes to the xcode templates is no fun, even if you do  
> know how to do so  which I don't.
> 
> PyObjC is a bit in flux at the moment, we've transitioned to  
> setuptools but never got around to completely finishing that  
> transition, which explains the lack of binary installers.

Keep up the good work. For now, PyObjC 1.4 source installation for both Python
2.5 and Python 2.3 are working fine.

Thanks again,

k

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 

From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Fri Oct 20 09:26:17 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 09:26:17 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] xcode problems
In-Reply-To: <20061020062941.31084.qmail@web27901.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <20061020062941.31084.qmail@web27901.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4612968.1161329177860.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>

 
On Friday, October 20, 2006, at 08:29AM, Muhammad Alkarouri <malkarouri at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>---  Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>...
>> I'd drop Xcode unless you already know it, Xcode can be used as a  
>> python editor but is really heavy-weight for what it offers to Python  
>> programmers (it's great for ObjC programming, but most of Xcode is  
>> closed for Python programmers).
>
>Noted. I am at the moment trying TextWrangler for editing Python. May be I will
>revert to Idle.
>[rant]
>It is a shame, though. Xcode is a great python environment, as far as my
>experience goes. It would be far more useful if it were open source.
>[/rant]

Open Source is not relevant for that, having a public API is. I (and other people) have asked for this, but this isn't a very high priority for Apple (AFAIK). 

What I'd like to see in a future version of Xcode is a public plugin API (outright Python support would also be nice of course) and an tool for creating/maintaining project templates.

>
>> > - The next problem is in the code itself. When trying to run the  
>> > application
>> > PyAverager I get an error:
>> > PyAverager[3377] Unknown class `Averager' in nib file, using  
>> > `NSObject' instead
>> 
>> Where did you find this example? It isn't part of the PyObjC  
>> distribution, so I can't help you here without further information.
>
>Yes. This is the example from the Apple web site
>(http://developer.apple.com/cocoa/pyobjc.html).
>I did find the error, though, and it is an xcode peculiarity/bug. Namely, when
>you create a new Python class file in xcode it doesn't get added to "Classes"
>in the xcode project. You have to drag it there manually.

That's the lack of Python support in Xcode again.

>
>> > - Is there anyway to automate the change of setup.py to use
>> > /usr/local/bin/python at each new project, rather than doing it  
>> > manually?
>> 
>> The 2.4.3, 2.4.4 and 2.5 installers for python should ensure that the  
>> right directory (which isn't /usr/local/bin b.t.w.) is on $PATH. What  
>> is your shell environment? I assume you use the default shell (bash),  
>> do you have any custom startup files  
>> (.profile, .bashrc, .bash_login, ...)?
>
>I have installed the Python 2.5 for OS X from python.org. And I have this now
>
>==================
>muhammad-alkarouris-computer:~ malkarouri$ which python
>/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current/bin/python
>muhammad-alkarouris-computer:~ malkarouri$ ls -l /usr/local/bin/python
>lrwxr-xr-x   1 root  wheel  68 Oct 15 06:13 /usr/local/bin/python ->
>../../../Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/bin/python
>muhammad-alkarouris-computer:~ malkarouri$ echo $PATH
>/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current/bin:/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/local/teTeX/bin/i386-apple-darwin-current
>muhammad-alkarouris-computer:~ malkarouri$ cat .bash_profile 
>
># Setting PATH for MacPython 2.5
># The orginal version is saved in .bash_profile.pysave
>PATH="/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current/bin:${PATH}"
>export PATH
>muhammad-alkarouris-computer:~ malkarouri$ 
>==================
>
>So, the installer did install /usr/local/bin/python. Through .bash_profile,
>python2.5 is the default for my shell, while python2.3 is the default for
>everything else. This is fine by me. I assume that is the right approach. Or is
>there another installer?

Ah, now that you mention it: Xcode doesn't look at the shell environment, and that is the only thing that is patched. If you know you're way around Xcode this is fixable: the templates currrently run '/usr/bin/env python', that should be changed to '/Library/Frameworks/Versions/Current/bin/python' (or .../Versions/2.5/bin/python to ensure you get python 2.5).

>
>> It would be nice if that button worked, but I don't have time to fix  
>> this. Making changes to the xcode templates is no fun, even if you do  
>> know how to do so  which I don't.
>> 
>> PyObjC is a bit in flux at the moment, we've transitioned to  
>> setuptools but never got around to completely finishing that  
>> transition, which explains the lack of binary installers.
>
>Keep up the good work. For now, PyObjC 1.4 source installation for both Python
>2.5 and Python 2.3 are working fine.

Ronald

From vip at avatar.com.au  Fri Oct 20 10:11:31 2006
From: vip at avatar.com.au (David Worrall)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 18:11:31 +1000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] xcode problems
In-Reply-To: <4612968.1161329177860.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
References: <20061020062941.31084.qmail@web27901.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<4612968.1161329177860.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
Message-ID: <11D316F0-06C0-4379-8FD2-107390BC3D38@avatar.com.au>


On 20/10/2006, at 5:26 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:

>
> On Friday, October 20, 2006, at 08:29AM, Muhammad Alkarouri  
> <malkarouri at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> ---  Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>> ...
>>> I'd drop Xcode unless you already know it, Xcode can be used as a
>>> python editor but is really heavy-weight for what it offers to  
>>> Python
>>> programmers (it's great for ObjC programming, but most of Xcode is
>>> closed for Python programmers).
>>
>> Noted. I am at the moment trying TextWrangler for editing Python.  
>> May be I will
>> revert to Idle.
>> [rant]
>> It is a shame, though. Xcode is a great python environment, as far  
>> as my
>> experience goes. It would be far more useful if it were open source.
>> [/rant]
>
....
I use TextWrangler as a general text processor, occasionally for  
quick code.
On my OSX machines I find scrIDE (http://projects.gandreas.com/ 
scride/) more stable than IDLE.
It's especially good for wxPython stuff.

David

_______________________________________
experimental polymedia:	www.avatar.com.au
Sonic Communications Research Group,
University of Canberra:	 www.canberra.edu.au





From zabaione at uk2.net  Fri Oct 20 19:12:36 2006
From: zabaione at uk2.net (Martin Dunschen)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 18:12:36 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] py2app and Pyhon Imaging Library PIL
Message-ID: <50146.138.253.180.183.1161364356.squirrel@maxproxy8.uk2net.com>

I had the following problem with a python script that imports the Image
module:

...
import Image
...


When I build an app with py2app I got an error that Image can't be found.
I tracked the problem down to the file
MyApp.app/Contents/Resources/__boot__.py
which imports it.

In there changed the line
import Image

to
from PIL import Image

and also how I import Image in my own script. It works.

But I don't understand why the original version does not work?

I understand that __boot__.py in created, but is there a template I can
change? Is that the right way to fix this problem?

Thanks

Martin

From bob at redivi.com  Fri Oct 20 20:31:35 2006
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 11:31:35 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] py2app and Pyhon Imaging Library PIL
In-Reply-To: <50146.138.253.180.183.1161364356.squirrel@maxproxy8.uk2net.com>
References: <50146.138.253.180.183.1161364356.squirrel@maxproxy8.uk2net.com>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290610201131s72487d7ckc225600167999632@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/20/06, Martin Dunschen <zabaione at uk2.net> wrote:
> I had the following problem with a python script that imports the Image
> module:
>
> ...
> import Image
> ...
>
>
> When I build an app with py2app I got an error that Image can't be found.
> I tracked the problem down to the file
> MyApp.app/Contents/Resources/__boot__.py
> which imports it.
>
> In there changed the line
> import Image
> to
> from PIL import Image
>
> and also how I import Image in my own script. It works.
>
> But I don't understand why the original version does not work?

The canonical way to import PIL is "import Image" not "from PIL import
Image". You should be using "import Image" in your script.

If you use "import Image" then it should work in py2app. It works here
anyway, if it still doesn't work you're going to need to provide
enough information to reproduce the problem.

> I understand that __boot__.py in created, but is there a template I can
> change? Is that the right way to fix this problem?

__boot__ is generated from the recipes and prescripts. This line comes
from the PIL recipe.

No, that's not the right way to fix it. I don't think it's broken, anyway.

-bob

From chris.van.bael at gmail.com  Fri Oct 20 23:39:21 2006
From: chris.van.bael at gmail.com (Chris Van Bael)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:39:21 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problems on using py2app: how to add extra files?
Message-ID: <5465ee790610201439k4b228190q2050b51d3673ea04@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm the window maintainer of Childsplay(childsplay.sourceforge.net),
and wanted to port it also to Mac.  But I got a problem with py2app.

So my source directory looks a bit like this: (simplified)
ConfParser.py
childsplay.py
setup.py

In a terminal "python childsplay.py" runs just fine. (childsplay is
btw a pygame app)
The setup.py is the following:
APP = ['childsplay.py']
DATA_FILES = ['Confparser.py']
OPTIONS = {'argv_emulation':True}

setup(
   app=APP,
   data_files=DATA_FILES,
   option={'py2app':OPTIONS},
   setup_requires=['py2app'],
)

So standard generated setup.py, only ConfParser.py is added.

Now when I make the app in alias mode, it works fine.
However when I make it in normal mode, it complains that it cannot
import the ConfParser.py file from childsplay.app/Contents/Resources.
But when I go see into the app file/directory, it is there ?!

Probably something very simple I'm doing wrong, but I really have no idea...

Thanks for the help,

Chris

From bob at redivi.com  Sat Oct 21 02:41:34 2006
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 17:41:34 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problems on using py2app: how to add extra
	files?
In-Reply-To: <5465ee790610201439k4b228190q2050b51d3673ea04@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5465ee790610201439k4b228190q2050b51d3673ea04@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290610201741u4eff2a13l214806c6b7160af6@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/20/06, Chris Van Bael <chris.van.bael at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm the window maintainer of Childsplay(childsplay.sourceforge.net),
> and wanted to port it also to Mac.  But I got a problem with py2app.
>
> So my source directory looks a bit like this: (simplified)
> ConfParser.py
> childsplay.py
> setup.py
>
> In a terminal "python childsplay.py" runs just fine. (childsplay is
> btw a pygame app)
> The setup.py is the following:
> APP = ['childsplay.py']
> DATA_FILES = ['Confparser.py']
> OPTIONS = {'argv_emulation':True}
>
> setup(
>    app=APP,
>    data_files=DATA_FILES,
>    option={'py2app':OPTIONS},
>    setup_requires=['py2app'],
> )
>
> So standard generated setup.py, only ConfParser.py is added.
>
> Now when I make the app in alias mode, it works fine.
> However when I make it in normal mode, it complains that it cannot
> import the ConfParser.py file from childsplay.app/Contents/Resources.
> But when I go see into the app file/directory, it is there ?!
>
> Probably something very simple I'm doing wrong, but I really have no idea...

You got the case wrong for ConfParser.py

If your code has an "import ConfParser" statement you don't need to do
this though, it will automatically get picked up.

-bob

From hengist.podd at virgin.net  Sat Oct 21 22:24:31 2006
From: hengist.podd at virgin.net (has)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 21:24:31 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] how to avoid GUI launcher launching?
Message-ID: <F49F1E36-E210-49E0-B2C1-DB51AB2DAA8A@virgin.net>

Hi all,

I'd really like to find a way to stop that annoying GUI launcher  
starting up every time folk use appscript in Python 2.4+. It appears  
that calls to the GetNextProcess and LaunchApplication functions in  
aem.send.PSN are what's triggering it, but it's neither needed  
(appscript works fine under python2.3 and ruby without it) nor  
welcome (it's intrusive and slows down launching times). What exactly  
is the hair-trigger on that thing, and any ideas how I can suppress  
it/route around it?

Many thanks,

has
-- 
http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/
http://appscript.sourceforge.net
http://rb-appscript.rubyforge.org



From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Sun Oct 22 10:01:41 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 10:01:41 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] how to avoid GUI launcher launching?
In-Reply-To: <F49F1E36-E210-49E0-B2C1-DB51AB2DAA8A@virgin.net>
References: <F49F1E36-E210-49E0-B2C1-DB51AB2DAA8A@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <C3FBF6D0-7207-4093-9095-F1783E125430@mac.com>


On Oct 21, 2006, at 10:24 PM, has wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'd really like to find a way to stop that annoying GUI launcher
> starting up every time folk use appscript in Python 2.4+. It appears
> that calls to the GetNextProcess and LaunchApplication functions in
> aem.send.PSN are what's triggering it, but it's neither needed
> (appscript works fine under python2.3 and ruby without it) nor
> welcome (it's intrusive and slows down launching times). What exactly
> is the hair-trigger on that thing, and any ideas how I can suppress
> it/route around it?

You're using an API that causes the bouncing from an program in an  
application bundle (the embedded Python.app).  Appearently some API's  
transform a process from a normal process to a GUI process if the  
program's binary is inside an application bundle.

Maybe this can be fixed by making Python.app a faceless application,  
although we should then thoroughly test if pythonw keeps working.

If it is we can fix this for python2.5 but not for 2.4, 2.4.4 was  
just released and is almost certainly the last release in the 2.4.x  
branch.

Ronald

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From hengist.podd at virgin.net  Sun Oct 22 12:02:59 2006
From: hengist.podd at virgin.net (has)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 11:02:59 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] how to avoid GUI launcher launching?
In-Reply-To: <C3FBF6D0-7207-4093-9095-F1783E125430@mac.com>
References: <F49F1E36-E210-49E0-B2C1-DB51AB2DAA8A@virgin.net>
	<C3FBF6D0-7207-4093-9095-F1783E125430@mac.com>
Message-ID: <F77ABA5B-6481-40F5-8EB3-80E39D0FC3DE@virgin.net>

On 22 Oct 2006, at 09:01, Ronald Oussoren wrote:

>> I'd really like to find a way to stop that annoying GUI launcher
>> starting up every time folk use appscript in Python 2.4+. [...]  
>> What exactly
>> is the hair-trigger on that thing, and any ideas how I can suppress
>> it/route around it?
>
> You're using an API that causes the bouncing from an program in an  
> application bundle (the embedded Python.app).  Appearently some  
> API's transform a process from a normal process to a GUI process if  
> the program's binary is inside an application bundle.

System APIs, yes? Do you know if there's a way to find out which ones  
do and which ones don't?

I'm currently using three Process Manager functions: GetNextProcess,  
GetProcessBundleLocation and LaunchApplication. However, it should be  
possible to use typeKernelProcessID in place of  
typeProcessSerialNumber, so if anyone knows of PID-based equivalents  
that don't trigger the transformation then I can modify appscript to  
use those.


> Maybe this can be fixed by making Python.app a faceless  
> application, although we should then thoroughly test if pythonw  
> keeps working.

That might present a problem for any scripts that do need Python.app  
to behave like a normal app, e.g. if it needs to show a menubar, or  
users need to switch between processes. I don't know if there's any  
way to make the facelessness bit conditional though, and even if  
there was existing scripts would need to be updated to take advantage  
of it. Reverting to the old python vs. pythonw split won't appeal to  
anyone either (there's a reason they were merged, after all).

I think routing around the problem APIs in appscript is the best and  
safest solution at this point. It's not an area I'm familiar with  
though, so any advice will be much appreciated.

Many thanks,

has
-- 
http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/
http://appscript.sourceforge.net
http://rb-appscript.rubyforge.org



From lanceboyle at qwest.net  Mon Oct 23 04:10:55 2006
From: lanceboyle at qwest.net (Jerry)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:10:55 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] xcode problems
In-Reply-To: <4612968.1161329177860.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
References: <20061020062941.31084.qmail@web27901.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<4612968.1161329177860.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
Message-ID: <9B2EC04D-E56F-4F1C-AB7C-329019BA14AB@qwest.net>


On Oct 20, 2006, at 12:26 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:

>>
>> Noted. I am at the moment trying TextWrangler for editing Python.  
>> May be I will
>> revert to Idle.
>> [rant]
>> It is a shame, though. Xcode is a great python environment, as far  
>> as my
>> experience goes. It would be far more useful if it were open source.
>> [/rant]
>
> Open Source is not relevant for that, having a public API is. I  
> (and other people) have asked for this, but this isn't a very high  
> priority for Apple (AFAIK).
>
> What I'd like to see in a future version of Xcode is a public  
> plugin API (outright Python support would also be nice of course)  
> and an tool for creating/maintaining project templates.

I wonder where TextMate is headed. It has the potential to get a lot  
of these things right. The developer has been rather quiet lately and  
I believe he has said that he is working on a major revision. The bad  
part is that I _think_ it is a one-person development "team" and thus  
has the associated problem with trucks. (That is, what if he gets hit  
by one.)

Jerry


From anand at soe.ucsc.edu  Tue Oct 24 18:04:57 2006
From: anand at soe.ucsc.edu (Anand Patil)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:04:57 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problems with universal Python 2.4.3's distutils
Message-ID: <453E39A9.2000603@cse.ucsc.edu>

Hi all,

I'm running Universal Python 2.4.3 on my Powerbook G4 under OS X 10.4.8. 
I'm trying to install a package called mpi4py (MPI for Python), and 
Universal Python's distutils seem to be causing some trouble. It looks 
like the -arch i386 argument is confusing the linker somehow because my 
computer is a PPC. Also, I'm not sure what the library rt is, but there 
doesn't seem to be such a thing on my computer (though I've installed 
the latest version of Xcode). Does anyone know how I can resolve this? 
Sorry if this is OT, I didn't know where else to post.

Thanks for any advice,
Anand Patil

Anand-Patils-Computer:~/Desktop/mpi4py-0.4.0rc1 anand$ python setup.py 
build --mpi=mpich2
running build
running build_py
running build_ext
MPI configuration: from section 'mpich2' in file/s 'mpi.cfg'
MPI C compiler:    /usr/local/mpich2/bin/mpicc
MPI C++ compiler:  /usr/local/mpich2/bin/mpicxx
building 'mpi4py.libmpi' extension
/usr/local/mpich2/bin/mpicc -arch ppc -arch i386 -isysroot 
/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-long-double 
-no-cpp-precomp -mno-fused-madd -fno-common -dynamic -DNDEBUG -O3 
-I/usr/local/mpich2/include 
-I/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/include/python2.4 -c 
mpi/ext/libmpi.c -o build/temp.macosx-10.4-fat-2.4/mpi/ext/libmpi.o
/usr/local/mpich2/bin/mpicc -arch ppc -arch i386 -isysroot 
/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk -g -bundle -undefined dynamic_lookup 
build/temp.macosx-10.4-fat-2.4/mpi/ext/libmpi.o -L/usr/local/mpich2/lib 
-L/usr/local/mpich2 -lmpich -lrt -o 
build/lib.macosx-10.4-fat-2.4/mpi4py/libmpi.so
/usr/bin/ld: for architecture i386
/usr/bin/ld: warning /usr/local/mpich2/lib/libmpich.dylib cputype (18, 
architecture ppc) does not match cputype (7) for specified -arch flag: 
i386 (file not loaded)
/usr/bin/ld: can't locate file for: -lrt
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
/usr/bin/ld: for architecture ppc
/usr/bin/ld: can't locate file for: -lrt
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
lipo: can't open input file: /var/tmp//ccFhLQNI.out (No such file or 
directory)
error: command '/usr/local/mpich2/bin/mpicc' failed with exit status 1


From jrus at hcs.harvard.edu  Tue Oct 24 21:39:07 2006
From: jrus at hcs.harvard.edu (Jacob Rus)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 15:39:07 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] xcode problems
In-Reply-To: <4612968.1161329177860.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
References: <20061020062941.31084.qmail@web27901.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<4612968.1161329177860.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
Message-ID: <453E6BDB.8060309@hcs.harvard.edu>

Ronald Oussoren wrote:
> What I'd like to see in a future version of Xcode is
> a public plugin API (outright Python support would also 
 > be nice of course) and an tool for creating/maintaining
 > project templates.

I'd be happy with just an API for modifying their project files, as 
currently the format changes every few months in backwards-incompatible 
ways, and all the tools that hack parsing of it end up stuffed.  The 
suggestion of Apple engineers is to just use AppleScript, as if that is 
a workable solution... (requires XC to be open, is damn slow, etc.)

But yes, it would be nice if, for instance, names in the templates could 
be changed without looking a bazillion places.


From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Tue Oct 24 22:01:55 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:01:55 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problems with universal Python 2.4.3's distutils
In-Reply-To: <453E39A9.2000603@cse.ucsc.edu>
References: <453E39A9.2000603@cse.ucsc.edu>
Message-ID: <10082030.1161720115337.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>

 
On Tuesday, October 24, 2006, at 06:09PM, Anand Patil <anand at soe.ucsc.edu> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I'm running Universal Python 2.4.3 on my Powerbook G4 under OS X 10.4.8. 
>I'm trying to install a package called mpi4py (MPI for Python), and 
>Universal Python's distutils seem to be causing some trouble. It looks 
>like the -arch i386 argument is confusing the linker somehow because my 
>computer is a PPC. Also, I'm not sure what the library rt is, but there 
>doesn't seem to be such a thing on my computer (though I've installed 
>the latest version of Xcode). Does anyone know how I can resolve this? 
>Sorry if this is OT, I didn't know where else to post.
>
>Thanks for any advice,
>Anand Patil
>
>Anand-Patils-Computer:~/Desktop/mpi4py-0.4.0rc1 anand$ python setup.py 
>build --mpi=mpich2
>running build
>running build_py
>running build_ext
>MPI configuration: from section 'mpich2' in file/s 'mpi.cfg'
>MPI C compiler:    /usr/local/mpich2/bin/mpicc
>MPI C++ compiler:  /usr/local/mpich2/bin/mpicxx
>building 'mpi4py.libmpi' extension
>/usr/local/mpich2/bin/mpicc -arch ppc -arch i386 -isysroot 
>/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-long-double 
>-no-cpp-precomp -mno-fused-madd -fno-common -dynamic -DNDEBUG -O3 
>-I/usr/local/mpich2/include 
>-I/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/include/python2.4 -c 
>mpi/ext/libmpi.c -o build/temp.macosx-10.4-fat-2.4/mpi/ext/libmpi.o
>/usr/local/mpich2/bin/mpicc -arch ppc -arch i386 -isysroot 
>/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk -g -bundle -undefined dynamic_lookup 
>build/temp.macosx-10.4-fat-2.4/mpi/ext/libmpi.o -L/usr/local/mpich2/lib 
>-L/usr/local/mpich2 -lmpich -lrt -o 
>build/lib.macosx-10.4-fat-2.4/mpi4py/libmpi.so
>/usr/bin/ld: for architecture i386
>/usr/bin/ld: warning /usr/local/mpich2/lib/libmpich.dylib cputype (18, 
>architecture ppc) does not match cputype (7) for specified -arch flag: 
>i386 (file not loaded)
>/usr/bin/ld: can't locate file for: -lrt
>collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
>/usr/bin/ld: for architecture ppc
>/usr/bin/ld: can't locate file for: -lrt
>collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
>lipo: can't open input file: /var/tmp//ccFhLQNI.out (No such file or 
>directory)
>error: command '/usr/local/mpich2/bin/mpicc' failed with exit status 1

The universal build of python builds universal extensions by default. In 2.4.4 you can add ['-arch', 'ppc'] to the extra_compile_args and extra_link_args arguments for Extension (in your setup.py) to build a thin extension. Using CFLAGS and LDFLAGS might work as well, I haven't tested this. IIRC this doesn't work with 2.4.3, the necessary changes were added in 2.5 and 2.4.4.

BTW. The best way (TM) to fix your problem is to build mpich2 as a universal binary :-).

Ronald


From rodneys at io.com  Wed Oct 25 11:38:33 2006
From: rodneys at io.com (Rodney Somerstein)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 07:38:33 -0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
In-Reply-To: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
References: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
Message-ID: <p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>

I downloaded Python 2.5 yesterday and am having a problem with the included IDLE. If I launch IDLE by double-clicking, it shows up in the task bar, then immediately goes away. I see no windows, menus, etc. for the program. If I type IDLE at the command line, IDLE 1.2 launches with no problem. The icon in the task bar appears to be Python Launcher in that case, not IDLE.

If I launch the IDLE.app from MacPython 2.4 by double-clicking, it launches IDLE 1.1.3 with no problems.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Is IDLE.app broken under MacPython 2.5? While I can launch it from terminal, it is definitely more convenient to just double-click. I am using IDLE because I have been working my way through the O'Reilly Learning Python book at a glacial pace over the last year or more and it is nice to have a simple Python-aware interactive editor.

-Rodney
-- 

Rodney Somerstein            Always remember that you are unique...
rodneys at io.com               just like everyone else.

From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Wed Oct 25 13:34:57 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 13:34:57 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>
References: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>
Message-ID: <13282708.1161776097764.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>

 
On Wednesday, October 25, 2006, at 01:07PM, Rodney Somerstein <rodneys at io.com> wrote:

>I downloaded Python 2.5 yesterday and am having a problem with the included IDLE. If I launch IDLE by double-clicking, it shows up in the task bar, then immediately goes away. I see no windows, menus, etc. for the program. If I type IDLE at the command line, IDLE 1.2 launches with no problem. The icon in the task bar appears to be Python Launcher in that case, not IDLE.
>
>If I launch the IDLE.app from MacPython 2.4 by double-clicking, it launches IDLE 1.1.3 with no problems.
>
>Does anyone have any suggestions? Is IDLE.app broken under MacPython 2.5? While I can launch it from terminal, it is definitely more convenient to just double-click. I am using IDLE because I have been working my way through the O'Reilly Learning Python book at a glacial pace over the last year or more and it is nice to have a simple Python-aware interactive editor.

IDLE works for me. Could you tell me more about the version of OSX you're using (and if 10.4, if you're on intel or  ppc).


For the record, if you are running 10.3.9: IDLE uses Tk for its GUI, you'll have to download and install that seperately: 
    http://tcltkaqua.sourceforge.net/

This doesn't seem to be a problem for you as launching IDLE from the command-line works right.

Ronald


From rodneys at io.com  Wed Oct 25 14:00:32 2006
From: rodneys at io.com (rodneys at io.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 07:00:32 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
In-Reply-To: <13282708.1161776097764.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
References: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>
	<13282708.1161776097764.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
Message-ID: <57658.200.182.25.98.1161777632.squirrel@webmail.io.com>

Ronald Oussoren wrote:
> IDLE works for me. Could you tell me more about the version of OSX you're
> using (and if 10.4, if you're on intel or  ppc).
>
>
> For the record, if you are running 10.3.9: IDLE uses Tk for its GUI,
> you'll have to download and install that seperately:
>     http://tcltkaqua.sourceforge.net/
>
> This doesn't seem to be a problem for you as launching IDLE from the
> command-line works right.

I am using the latest update to Mac OS X (I believe that is 10.4.8). This
is on a PowerBook G4 1.5, so PPC, not Intel.

As you state, it doesn't appear to be Tk, since everything starts from the
command line. When I launch the 2.4 IDLE (version 1.1.3) by
double-clicking, I get a console window which opens in addition to the
IDLE window. When I select this, the menus change to show that I am using
Tk. I don't see this additional window when launching the new IDLE from
the command line. Does this shed any light on the problem?

Thanks,

-Rodney


From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Wed Oct 25 16:45:55 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:45:55 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
In-Reply-To: <57658.200.182.25.98.1161777632.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
References: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>
	<13282708.1161776097764.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<57658.200.182.25.98.1161777632.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
Message-ID: <6393136.1161787555656.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>

 
On Wednesday, October 25, 2006, at 02:00PM, <rodneys at io.com> wrote:

>Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>> IDLE works for me. Could you tell me more about the version of OSX you're
>> using (and if 10.4, if you're on intel or  ppc).
>>
>>
>> For the record, if you are running 10.3.9: IDLE uses Tk for its GUI,
>> you'll have to download and install that seperately:
>>     http://tcltkaqua.sourceforge.net/
>>
>> This doesn't seem to be a problem for you as launching IDLE from the
>> command-line works right.
>
>I am using the latest update to Mac OS X (I believe that is 10.4.8). This
>is on a PowerBook G4 1.5, so PPC, not Intel.

That's the same as my laptop. 

>
>As you state, it doesn't appear to be Tk, since everything starts from the
>command line. When I launch the 2.4 IDLE (version 1.1.3) by
>double-clicking, I get a console window which opens in addition to the
>IDLE window. When I select this, the menus change to show that I am using
>Tk. I don't see this additional window when launching the new IDLE from
>the command line. Does this shed any light on the problem?

The console window is a Tk misfeature. The 2.5 version of IDLE contains some code to close this console window.

Could you open Console.app, clear the log and then try to start IDLE again? Hopefully IDLE runs into a problem that gets written to the console log.

Ronald


From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov  Wed Oct 25 18:13:19 2006
From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Christopher Barker)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 09:13:19 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
In-Reply-To: <6393136.1161787555656.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
References: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>
	<13282708.1161776097764.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<57658.200.182.25.98.1161777632.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<6393136.1161787555656.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
Message-ID: <453F8D1F.3050908@noaa.gov>

While we're at it, if all you want is a Python-aware editor -- then 
there area a lot of other (better?) options. Scan the archives of this 
list for suggestions. A few:

BBEdit (TextWrangler?)
Eclipse
SPE
Jedit
ScrIDE


Assorted *nix editors: emaca, VIm, etc, etc.

or look here:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                      		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chris.Barker at noaa.gov

From Tom.Weir at safe.com  Wed Oct 25 22:22:01 2006
From: Tom.Weir at safe.com (Tom Weir)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 13:22:01 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Saving a file???
Message-ID: <3175AA8B-CB06-4DD7-AB3A-34C21FA48E92@safe.com>

Hi All,

I'm trying to create and save a new OmniOutliner doc, but I'm having  
some trouble trying to figure out what to pass as the _in parameter.  
Any suggestions? A script snippet is below.

Thanks,

Tom

from appscript import app,k

oo = app("OmniOutliner")
d = oo.documents.end.make(new=k.document)
#...
#add rows, etc...
#...

#newFile doesn't exist yet, so the following doesn't work:
#from Carbon.File import FSSpec
#newFile = FSSpect("/tmp/aNewFile")
oo.save(d,in_=newFile)


From rodneys at io.com  Wed Oct 25 22:38:20 2006
From: rodneys at io.com (Rodney Somerstein)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 18:38:20 -0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
Message-ID: <p06240802c1657baf6e8c@[192.168.0.200]>

Ronald Oussoren wrote:

>Could you open Console.app, clear the log and then try to start IDLE 
>again? Hopefully IDLE runs into a problem that gets written to the 
>console log.

Here is what I see when I double-click on IDLE:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/Applications/MacPython 
2.5/IDLE.app/Contents/Resources/idlemain.py", line 27, in <module>
     main()
   File 
"/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/idlelib/PyShell.py", 
line 1393, in main
     macosxSupport.setupApp(root, flist)
   File 
"/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/idlelib/macosxSupport.py", 
line 110, in setupApp
     hideTkConsole(root)
   File 
"/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/idlelib/macosxSupport.py", 
line 26, in hideTkConsole
     root.tk.call('console', 'hide')
_tkinter.TclError: invalid command name "console"


From vip at avatar.com.au  Thu Oct 26 02:27:16 2006
From: vip at avatar.com.au (David Worrall)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:27:16 +1000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
In-Reply-To: <453F8D1F.3050908@noaa.gov>
References: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>
	<13282708.1161776097764.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<57658.200.182.25.98.1161777632.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<6393136.1161787555656.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<453F8D1F.3050908@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <C2BE66A5-2843-4E94-9915-D95B983D9CCC@avatar.com.au>

For what it' worth, perhaps to save you some time, I recently spent a  
day evaluating
these tools. Horses for courses, but for me:
TextWrangler is a freebie BBEditLite - a very nice word-processor  
which is keyword aware;
SPE is a full-blown development environment which includes wxglade  
interface to wxwindows
I found it difficult to 'grock' quickly but it could be good
ScrIDE is 1/2 way between.

I opted for ScrIDE - it's simple to use (ie no manual necessary) and  
stable. + using wxglade indpendently for
wxwidget development.
My config: intel OSX 10.4.8 MacPython 2.4.3

If anyone's using MacPython + wxglade into  scrIDE and can report it  
AOK I'd be pleased to hear.

David

On 26/10/2006, at 2:13 AM, Christopher Barker wrote:

> While we're at it, if all you want is a Python-aware editor -- then
> there area a lot of other (better?) options. Scan the archives of this
> list for suggestions. A few:
>
> BBEdit (TextWrangler?)
> Eclipse
> SPE
> Jedit
> ScrIDE
>
>
> Assorted *nix editors: emaca, VIm, etc, etc.
>
> or look here:
>
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors
>
> -Chris
>
>
> -- 
> Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
> Oceanographer
>                                       		
> NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
> 7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
> Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception
>
> Chris.Barker at noaa.gov
> _______________________________________________
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
>

_______________________________________
experimental polymedia:	www.avatar.com.au
Sonic Communications Research Group,
University of Canberra:	 www.canberra.edu.au





From rodneys at io.com  Thu Oct 26 11:28:32 2006
From: rodneys at io.com (Rodney Somerstein)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 07:28:32 -0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
In-Reply-To: <C2BE66A5-2843-4E94-9915-D95B983D9CCC@avatar.com.au>
References: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>
	<13282708.1161776097764.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<57658.200.182.25.98.1161777632.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<6393136.1161787555656.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<453F8D1F.3050908@noaa.gov>
	<C2BE66A5-2843-4E94-9915-D95B983D9CCC@avatar.com.au>
Message-ID: <p06240805c1663033bd96@[192.168.0.200]>

Thanks Chris and David for the suggestions. I'm already aware of 
other editors. But, as I mentioned, I'm currently learning Python and 
an environment that actually lets me execute python code without 
having to first create and save a file is superior for that purpose, 
in my opinion.

I already own BBEdit and have for many years. So, when I start 
actually writing real code, I will likely use that.

>For what it' worth, perhaps to save you some time, I recently spent 
>a  day evaluating
>these tools. Horses for courses, but for me:
>TextWrangler is a freebie BBEditLite - a very nice word-processor 
>which is keyword aware;
>SPE is a full-blown development environment which includes wxglade 
>interface to wxwindows
>I found it difficult to 'grock' quickly but it could be good
>ScrIDE is 1/2 way between.
>
>David
>
>On 26/10/2006, at 2:13 AM, Christopher Barker wrote:
>
>>While we're at it, if all you want is a Python-aware editor -- then
>>there area a lot of other (better?) options. Scan the archives of this
>>list for suggestions. A few:
>>
>>BBEdit (TextWrangler?)
>>Eclipse
>>SPE
>>Jedit
>>ScrIDE
>>
>>
>>Assorted *nix editors: emaca, VIm, etc, etc.
>>
>>or look here:
>>
>>http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors
>>
>>-Chris


-- 

Rodney Somerstein            Always remember that you are unique...
rodneys at io.com               just like everyone else.

From rodneys at io.com  Thu Oct 26 15:09:32 2006
From: rodneys at io.com (rodneys at io.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 08:09:32 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
In-Reply-To: <12488608.1161861016306.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
References: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>
	<13282708.1161776097764.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<57658.200.182.25.98.1161777632.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<6393136.1161787555656.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<p06240801c1657a71240a@[192.168.0.200]>
	<12488608.1161861016306.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
Message-ID: <61851.200.182.25.98.1161868172.squirrel@webmail.io.com>

Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>
> Do you have a custom version of Tcl/Tk in /Library/Frameworks? What does
> the following command print:
> $ otool -Lv
> /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload/_tkinter.so
>
> It seems that I have a custom version of Tk installed on my build machine
> (without knowing it), which means _tkinter.so links to
> /Library/Frameworks/{Tcl,Tk}.framework instead of the system ones. There's
> obviously a fallback to the system one because I don't have this framework
> on my laptop, yet IDLE works there.  If you do have a Tk.framework in
> /Library/Frameworks as well you could try to move that (and Tcl.framework)
> aside, although I don't know what that might break.
>
> Could you add a '#' before line 26 in
> /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/idlelib/macosxSupport.py
> and then add a line with 'pass' just below that to make hideTkConsole a
> valid function again? That should get you going again.

Thank you very much. It turned out that I had previously installed
ActiveState Tcl. I removed the Tcl and Tk frameworks from
/Library/Frameworks and IDLE launched with no problem. I didn't even need
to comment line 26 and add the pass command.

So, everything seems to be working properly again.

-Rodney


From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Thu Oct 26 15:17:31 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 15:17:31 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
In-Reply-To: <61851.200.182.25.98.1161868172.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
References: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>
	<13282708.1161776097764.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<57658.200.182.25.98.1161777632.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<6393136.1161787555656.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<p06240801c1657a71240a@[192.168.0.200]>
	<12488608.1161861016306.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<61851.200.182.25.98.1161868172.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
Message-ID: <5203806.1161868651334.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>

 
On Thursday, October 26, 2006, at 03:09PM, <rodneys at io.com> wrote:

>Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>>
>> Do you have a custom version of Tcl/Tk in /Library/Frameworks? What does
>> the following command print:
>> $ otool -Lv
>> /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload/_tkinter.so
>>
>> It seems that I have a custom version of Tk installed on my build machine
>> (without knowing it), which means _tkinter.so links to
>> /Library/Frameworks/{Tcl,Tk}.framework instead of the system ones. There's
>> obviously a fallback to the system one because I don't have this framework
>> on my laptop, yet IDLE works there.  If you do have a Tk.framework in
>> /Library/Frameworks as well you could try to move that (and Tcl.framework)
>> aside, although I don't know what that might break.
>>
>> Could you add a '#' before line 26 in
>> /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/idlelib/macosxSupport.py
>> and then add a line with 'pass' just below that to make hideTkConsole a
>> valid function again? That should get you going again.
>
>Thank you very much. It turned out that I had previously installed
>ActiveState Tcl. I removed the Tcl and Tk frameworks from
>/Library/Frameworks and IDLE launched with no problem. I didn't even need
>to comment line 26 and add the pass command.
>
>So, everything seems to be working properly again.

Thanks. I'll also add a patch for 2.5.1 that works around this problem.

Ronald
>
>-Rodney
>
>
>

From vip at avatar.com.au  Fri Oct 27 04:26:26 2006
From: vip at avatar.com.au (David Worrall)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:26:26 +1000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
In-Reply-To: <p06240805c1663033bd96@[192.168.0.200]>
References: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>
	<13282708.1161776097764.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<57658.200.182.25.98.1161777632.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<6393136.1161787555656.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<453F8D1F.3050908@noaa.gov>
	<C2BE66A5-2843-4E94-9915-D95B983D9CCC@avatar.com.au>
	<p06240805c1663033bd96@[192.168.0.200]>
Message-ID: <C5E2F37D-A71D-4233-9F2A-4BC1B936CD93@avatar.com.au>

no need for a file? then enjoy the delights of the interpreter.  just
$ /usr/bin/python (at the prompt)

will get you the interpreter at which you can play around.
sometimes I do that whilst I'm trying to work out what I want
(by looking at the results of various processes)
and then drag/copy and past into a text edit doco when it's right,
and sometimes the reverse, especially for looping structures.

That afterall is one of the beauties of interpreted languages ...
you don't need to know what you want until you see the it ..
This means that it is a tool for thought rather than just a tool for
executing a known idea.

All the best w. python. I've programmed in everything from
fortran II , pascal, snobol, apl, forth, c, assemblers etc etc
and python for 7 years on all sorts of platforms. These days
  there has to be a pretty convincing argument  for me to use  
anything else.

---David

On 26/10/2006, at 7:28 PM, Rodney Somerstein wrote:

> Thanks Chris and David for the suggestions. I'm already aware of
> other editors. But, as I mentioned, I'm currently learning Python and
> an environment that actually lets me execute python code without
> having to first create and save a file is superior for that purpose,
> in my opinion.
>
> I already own BBEdit and have for many years. So, when I start
> actually writing real code, I will likely use that.
>
>> For what it' worth, perhaps to save you some time, I recently spent
>> a  day evaluating
>> these tools. Horses for courses, but for me:
>> TextWrangler is a freebie BBEditLite - a very nice word-processor
>> which is keyword aware;
>> SPE is a full-blown development environment which includes wxglade
>> interface to wxwindows
>> I found it difficult to 'grock' quickly but it could be good
>> ScrIDE is 1/2 way between.
>>
>> David
>>
>> On 26/10/2006, at 2:13 AM, Christopher Barker wrote:
>>
>>> While we're at it, if all you want is a Python-aware editor -- then
>>> there area a lot of other (better?) options. Scan the archives of  
>>> this
>>> list for suggestions. A few:
>>>
>>> BBEdit (TextWrangler?)
>>> Eclipse
>>> SPE
>>> Jedit
>>> ScrIDE
>>>
>>>
>>> Assorted *nix editors: emaca, VIm, etc, etc.
>>>
>>> or look here:
>>>
>>> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors
>>>
>>> -Chris
>
>
> -- 
>
> Rodney Somerstein            Always remember that you are unique...
> rodneys at io.com               just like everyone else.
> _______________________________________________
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
>

_______________________________________
experimental polymedia:	www.avatar.com.au
Sonic Communications Research Group,
University of Canberra:	 www.canberra.edu.au





From tom.weir at safe.com  Fri Oct 27 05:59:45 2006
From: tom.weir at safe.com (Tom Weir)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:59:45 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] OmniOutliner Appscript
Message-ID: <96483C0E-73B5-4B40-9396-6731ED588561@safe.com>

Hello,

Has anyone successfully used appscript with omnioutliner? I'm have  
some problems with conduit setting domains.

The following applescript snippet works, but I haven't (as you can  
see below) found a similar way of doing things in appscript.

	set r to row 1 of document 1
	set the external id of conduit setting domain id "com.geekwerks.foo"  
of r to "asdasd"

The following doesn't appear to work
	d = app('OmniOutliner Professional').documents.end.make(new=k.document)
	r = d.rows.end.make(new=k.row)
	csd = r.conduit_setting_domains[its.id=="com.geekwerks.foo"]
	csd.external_id.set('asdasdasd')

The above code results in the below traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.4/ 
lib/python2.4/site-packages/appscript/specifier.py", line 197, in  
__call__
     raise CommandError(self, (args, kargs), e)
appscript.specifier.CommandError: Can't pack data into an AEDesc  
(unsupported type): its.id == 'com.geekwerks.foo'
         Failed command: app(u'/Applications/OmniOutliner  
Professional.app').documents.ID(u'dQCDauyvBm2').children 
[1].conduit_setting_domains[its.id ==  
'com.geekwerks.foo'].external_id.set('asdasdasd')

Two potential gotchas:
- OmniOutliner only allows conduit setting domains to be referenced  
by id
- A conduit setting domain is created the first time it is  
referenced; no need to 'make' it.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,

Tom
-------------- next part --------------
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From delza at livingcode.org  Fri Oct 27 06:21:19 2006
From: delza at livingcode.org (Dethe Elza)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 21:21:19 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
In-Reply-To: <C5E2F37D-A71D-4233-9F2A-4BC1B936CD93@avatar.com.au>
References: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>
	<13282708.1161776097764.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<57658.200.182.25.98.1161777632.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<6393136.1161787555656.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<453F8D1F.3050908@noaa.gov>
	<C2BE66A5-2843-4E94-9915-D95B983D9CCC@avatar.com.au>
	<p06240805c1663033bd96@[192.168.0.200]>
	<C5E2F37D-A71D-4233-9F2A-4BC1B936CD93@avatar.com.au>
Message-ID: <E617D9DE-E123-44A0-805E-EFC3007D0FFC@livingcode.org>

On 26-Oct-06, at 7:26 PM, David Worrall wrote:

> no need for a file? then enjoy the delights of the interpreter.  just
> $ /usr/bin/python (at the prompt)

Better, use IPython (even from Idle, I think it can be done, but I  
don't use Idle, so YMMV).  IPython will let you work in the  
interpreter, then save the session to a file for editing if you  
decide to preserve what you've done.

http://ipython.scipy.org/

--Dethe

>
> will get you the interpreter at which you can play around.
> sometimes I do that whilst I'm trying to work out what I want
> (by looking at the results of various processes)
> and then drag/copy and past into a text edit doco when it's right,
> and sometimes the reverse, especially for looping structures.
>
> That afterall is one of the beauties of interpreted languages ...
> you don't need to know what you want until you see the it ..
> This means that it is a tool for thought rather than just a tool for
> executing a known idea.
>
> All the best w. python. I've programmed in everything from
> fortran II , pascal, snobol, apl, forth, c, assemblers etc etc
> and python for 7 years on all sorts of platforms. These days
>   there has to be a pretty convincing argument  for me to use
> anything else.
>
> ---David
>
> On 26/10/2006, at 7:28 PM, Rodney Somerstein wrote:
>
>> Thanks Chris and David for the suggestions. I'm already aware of
>> other editors. But, as I mentioned, I'm currently learning Python and
>> an environment that actually lets me execute python code without
>> having to first create and save a file is superior for that purpose,
>> in my opinion.
>>
>> I already own BBEdit and have for many years. So, when I start
>> actually writing real code, I will likely use that.
>>
>>> For what it' worth, perhaps to save you some time, I recently spent
>>> a  day evaluating
>>> these tools. Horses for courses, but for me:
>>> TextWrangler is a freebie BBEditLite - a very nice word-processor
>>> which is keyword aware;
>>> SPE is a full-blown development environment which includes wxglade
>>> interface to wxwindows
>>> I found it difficult to 'grock' quickly but it could be good
>>> ScrIDE is 1/2 way between.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> On 26/10/2006, at 2:13 AM, Christopher Barker wrote:
>>>
>>>> While we're at it, if all you want is a Python-aware editor -- then
>>>> there area a lot of other (better?) options. Scan the archives of
>>>> this
>>>> list for suggestions. A few:
>>>>
>>>> BBEdit (TextWrangler?)
>>>> Eclipse
>>>> SPE
>>>> Jedit
>>>> ScrIDE
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Assorted *nix editors: emaca, VIm, etc, etc.
>>>>
>>>> or look here:
>>>>
>>>> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors
>>>>
>>>> -Chris
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Rodney Somerstein            Always remember that you are unique...
>> rodneys at io.com               just like everyone else.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
>>
>
> _______________________________________
> experimental polymedia:	www.avatar.com.au
> Sonic Communications Research Group,
> University of Canberra:	 www.canberra.edu.au
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig





DETHE ELZA Senior Software Developer
delza at uniserve.com





From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Fri Oct 27 07:40:53 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 07:40:53 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
In-Reply-To: <C5E2F37D-A71D-4233-9F2A-4BC1B936CD93@avatar.com.au>
References: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>
	<13282708.1161776097764.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<57658.200.182.25.98.1161777632.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<6393136.1161787555656.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<453F8D1F.3050908@noaa.gov>
	<C2BE66A5-2843-4E94-9915-D95B983D9CCC@avatar.com.au>
	<p06240805c1663033bd96@[192.168.0.200]>
	<C5E2F37D-A71D-4233-9F2A-4BC1B936CD93@avatar.com.au>
Message-ID: <8511828C-6B69-4832-8FC8-CDB2BCCEA0BC@mac.com>

Why does everyone seem to want to push people away from IDLE? IDLE  
isn't award-winning material, but it does work properly as a simple  
python environment.

In a way it is better than most programmers text editors because  
although it is missing some of the advanced editor features these  
offer it does come with an embedded python interpreter and debugger.

Ronald

On Oct 27, 2006, at 4:26 AM, David Worrall wrote:

> no need for a file? then enjoy the delights of the interpreter.  just
> $ /usr/bin/python (at the prompt)
>
> will get you the interpreter at which you can play around.
> sometimes I do that whilst I'm trying to work out what I want
> (by looking at the results of various processes)
> and then drag/copy and past into a text edit doco when it's right,
> and sometimes the reverse, especially for looping structures.
>
> That afterall is one of the beauties of interpreted languages ...
> you don't need to know what you want until you see the it ..
> This means that it is a tool for thought rather than just a tool for
> executing a known idea.
>
> All the best w. python. I've programmed in everything from
> fortran II , pascal, snobol, apl, forth, c, assemblers etc etc
> and python for 7 years on all sorts of platforms. These days
>   there has to be a pretty convincing argument  for me to use
> anything else.
>
> ---David
>
> On 26/10/2006, at 7:28 PM, Rodney Somerstein wrote:
>
>> Thanks Chris and David for the suggestions. I'm already aware of
>> other editors. But, as I mentioned, I'm currently learning Python and
>> an environment that actually lets me execute python code without
>> having to first create and save a file is superior for that purpose,
>> in my opinion.
>>
>> I already own BBEdit and have for many years. So, when I start
>> actually writing real code, I will likely use that.
>>
>>> For what it' worth, perhaps to save you some time, I recently spent
>>> a  day evaluating
>>> these tools. Horses for courses, but for me:
>>> TextWrangler is a freebie BBEditLite - a very nice word-processor
>>> which is keyword aware;
>>> SPE is a full-blown development environment which includes wxglade
>>> interface to wxwindows
>>> I found it difficult to 'grock' quickly but it could be good
>>> ScrIDE is 1/2 way between.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> On 26/10/2006, at 2:13 AM, Christopher Barker wrote:
>>>
>>>> While we're at it, if all you want is a Python-aware editor -- then
>>>> there area a lot of other (better?) options. Scan the archives of
>>>> this
>>>> list for suggestions. A few:
>>>>
>>>> BBEdit (TextWrangler?)
>>>> Eclipse
>>>> SPE
>>>> Jedit
>>>> ScrIDE
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Assorted *nix editors: emaca, VIm, etc, etc.
>>>>
>>>> or look here:
>>>>
>>>> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors
>>>>
>>>> -Chris
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Rodney Somerstein            Always remember that you are unique...
>> rodneys at io.com               just like everyone else.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
>>
>
> _______________________________________
> experimental polymedia:	www.avatar.com.au
> Sonic Communications Research Group,
> University of Canberra:	 www.canberra.edu.au
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig

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From hengist.podd at virgin.net  Fri Oct 27 10:37:45 2006
From: hengist.podd at virgin.net (has)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:37:45 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Saving a file???
In-Reply-To: <mailman.8.1161856802.20576.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
References: <mailman.8.1161856802.20576.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
Message-ID: <58D6E32F-84D4-4583-8FDD-066EAC7ACAB3@virgin.net>

  Tom Weir wrote:

> I'm trying to create and save a new OmniOutliner doc, but I'm  
> having some trouble trying to figure out what to pass as the _in  
> parameter. Any suggestions? A script snippet is below.

import macfile

newFile = macfile.File('/tmp/aNewFile')

HTH

has
-- 
http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/
http://appscript.sourceforge.net
http://rb-appscript.rubyforge.org



From hengist.podd at virgin.net  Fri Oct 27 10:38:57 2006
From: hengist.podd at virgin.net (has)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:38:57 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] OmniOutliner Appscript
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3081.1161922897.11738.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
References: <mailman.3081.1161922897.11738.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
Message-ID: <29F9564E-4794-4DB7-8870-008E73B277A0@virgin.net>

Tom Weir wrote:

> Has anyone successfully used appscript with omnioutliner? I'm have  
> some problems with conduit setting domains.
>
> The following applescript snippet works, but I haven't (as you can  
> see below) found a similar way of doing things in appscript.
>
> 	set r to row 1 of document 1
> 	set the external id of conduit setting domain id  
> "com.geekwerks.foo" of r to "asdasd"

Don't have OO Pro myself, but the AS equivalent should be something  
like:

r = app('OmniOutliner Professional').documents[1].rows[1]
r.conduit_setting_domains.ID("com.geekwerks.foo").external_id.set 
("asdasd")

You might also want to grab a copy of ASTranslate from  
appscript.sourceforge.net - handy when you want to convert AS  
commands to their appscript equivalents.

HTH

has
-- 
http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/
http://appscript.sourceforge.net
http://rb-appscript.rubyforge.org



From rodneys at io.com  Fri Oct 27 10:25:20 2006
From: rodneys at io.com (Rodney Somerstein)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 06:25:20 -0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
In-Reply-To: <8511828C-6B69-4832-8FC8-CDB2BCCEA0BC@mac.com>
References: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>
	<13282708.1161776097764.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<57658.200.182.25.98.1161777632.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<6393136.1161787555656.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<453F8D1F.3050908@noaa.gov>
	<C2BE66A5-2843-4E94-9915-D95B983D9CCC@avatar.com.au>
	<p06240805c1663033bd96@[192.168.0.200]>
	<C5E2F37D-A71D-4233-9F2A-4BC1B936CD93@avatar.com.au>
	<8511828C-6B69-4832-8FC8-CDB2BCCEA0BC@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c16771de40a1@[192.168.0.200]>

At 7:40 AM +0200 10/27/06, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>Why does everyone seem to want to push people away from IDLE? IDLE 
>isn't award-winning material, but it does work properly as a simple 
>python environment.
>
>In a way it is better than most programmers text editors because 
>although it is missing some of the advanced editor features these 
>offer it does come with an embedded python interpreter and debugger.
>

I was wondering about this myself. IDLE colors Python commands and 
offers help with commands while typing. It seems to be an excellent 
learning environment. I don't think I will use it when writing actual 
applications, but for right now, it seems to make more sense than 
Python from the Terminal application or any of the editors people 
have mentioned.

I do appreciate everyone's suggestions of alternatives. For right 
now, though, IDLE is working for me again and I'm happily testing 
various commands and testing out answers to the end of section 
questions in Learning Python.

-Rodney
-- 

Rodney Somerstein            Always remember that you are unique...
rodneys at io.com               just like everyone else.

From jrus at hcs.harvard.edu  Sat Oct 28 19:23:05 2006
From: jrus at hcs.harvard.edu (Jacob Rus)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 13:23:05 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
In-Reply-To: <453F8D1F.3050908@noaa.gov>
References: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>	<p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>	<13282708.1161776097764.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>	<57658.200.182.25.98.1161777632.squirrel@webmail.io.com>	<6393136.1161787555656.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<453F8D1F.3050908@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <ei03lp$2eo$1@sea.gmane.org>

Christopher Barker wrote:
> While we're at it, if all you want is a Python-aware editor -- then 
> there area a lot of other (better?) options. Scan the archives of this 
> list for suggestions. A few:
> 
> BBEdit (TextWrangler?)
> Eclipse
> SPE
> Jedit
> ScrIDE
> 
> Assorted *nix editors: emaca, VIm, etc, etc.

I'm surprised that TextMate didn't make this list.  It's a relatively
new editor, but quite amazing (it won the 2006 Apple Design Award for
best developer tool).  Admittedly, the python bundle is not as polished
as those for some other languages (html and ruby for instance), but it
is still head and shoulders above all the other editors listed above, in
my opinion.  some more people from this list ought to give it a shot
(the python bundle really needs some more competent contributors to live
up to its potential, and the mac python community could really use a
better editor ;).

> Why does everyone seem to want to push people away from IDLE?
> IDLE isn't award-winning material, but it does work properly
> as a simple python environment.
> 
> In a way it is better than most programmers text editors because
> although it is missing some of the advanced editor features these
> offer it does come with an embedded python interpreter and debugger.

These really can't make up for the lack of good *editing* features.  The
ability to run python scripts from an editor is all I really *need* from
it, as for anything more intensive I can drop into IPython or similar.
I think that pushing people away from IDLE is quite natural, as most
users will be happier and more productive in another environment,
especially since some of these, like TextWrangler, are free.

-Jacob


From lanceboyle at qwest.net  Sun Oct 29 02:31:57 2006
From: lanceboyle at qwest.net (Jerry)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 18:31:57 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
In-Reply-To: <ei03lp$2eo$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>	<p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>	<13282708.1161776097764.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>	<57658.200.182.25.98.1161777632.squirrel@webmail.io.com>	<6393136.1161787555656.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<453F8D1F.3050908@noaa.gov> <ei03lp$2eo$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <B46DFA24-205E-40CC-A351-D505FC5A0781@qwest.net>


On Oct 28, 2006, at 10:23 AM, Jacob Rus wrote:

> Christopher Barker wrote:
>> While we're at it, if all you want is a Python-aware editor -- then
>> there area a lot of other (better?) options. Scan the archives of  
>> this
>> list for suggestions. A few:
>>
>> BBEdit (TextWrangler?)
>> Eclipse
>> SPE
>> Jedit
>> ScrIDE
>>
>> Assorted *nix editors: emaca, VIm, etc, etc.
>
> I'm surprised that TextMate didn't make this list.  It's a relatively
> new editor, but quite amazing (it won the 2006 Apple Design Award for
> best developer tool).  Admittedly, the python bundle is not as  
> polished
> as those for some other languages (html and ruby for instance), but it
> is still head and shoulders above all the other editors listed  
> above, in
> my opinion.  some more people from this list ought to give it a shot
> (the python bundle really needs some more competent contributors to  
> live
> up to its potential, and the mac python community could really use a
> better editor ;).

I concur wholeheartedly. I was going to pitch in with a comment like  
this but I think I did, recently. I have't used BBedit and  
TextWrangler only a little, but when I groked TextMate (and it takes  
a little effort to understand what makes it special) I was blown  
away. I'll add that while it's not free, it is very reasonable--$39  
US as I recall.

Jerry

From vip at avatar.com.au  Sun Oct 29 06:01:10 2006
From: vip at avatar.com.au (David Worrall)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 16:01:10 +1100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
In-Reply-To: <8511828C-6B69-4832-8FC8-CDB2BCCEA0BC@mac.com>
References: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>
	<13282708.1161776097764.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<57658.200.182.25.98.1161777632.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<6393136.1161787555656.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<453F8D1F.3050908@noaa.gov>
	<C2BE66A5-2843-4E94-9915-D95B983D9CCC@avatar.com.au>
	<p06240805c1663033bd96@[192.168.0.200]>
	<C5E2F37D-A71D-4233-9F2A-4BC1B936CD93@avatar.com.au>
	<8511828C-6B69-4832-8FC8-CDB2BCCEA0BC@mac.com>
Message-ID: <104E5485-AEA5-41FD-948A-DD5B2550F606@avatar.com.au>

There was a time a while ago when IDLE was a pain/unstable etc etc on  
intel OSX
and I guess I just gave up. I used to use it all the time.
Perhaps it works ok these days.
Stopping to sharpen one's axe is ok as long as one doesn't get bogged  
down in the process.
Now, where was that nifty little chain-saw I had yesterday?.. :-)

David.

On 27/10/2006, at 3:40 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:

> Why does everyone seem to want to push people away from IDLE? IDLE  
> isn't award-winning material, but it does work properly as a simple  
> python environment.
>
> In a way it is better than most programmers text editors because  
> although it is missing some of the advanced editor features these  
> offer it does come with an embedded python interpreter and debugger.
>
> Ronald
>
> On Oct 27, 2006, at 4:26 AM, David Worrall wrote:
>
>> no need for a file? then enjoy the delights of the interpreter.  just
>> $ /usr/bin/python (at the prompt)
>>
>> will get you the interpreter at which you can play around.
>> sometimes I do that whilst I'm trying to work out what I want
>> (by looking at the results of various processes)
>> and then drag/copy and past into a text edit doco when it's right,
>> and sometimes the reverse, especially for looping structures.
>>
>> That afterall is one of the beauties of interpreted languages ...
>> you don't need to know what you want until you see the it ..
>> This means that it is a tool for thought rather than just a tool for
>> executing a known idea.
>>
>> All the best w. python. I've programmed in everything from
>> fortran II , pascal, snobol, apl, forth, c, assemblers etc etc
>> and python for 7 years on all sorts of platforms. These days
>>   there has to be a pretty convincing argument  for me to use
>> anything else.
>>
>> ---David
>>
>> On 26/10/2006, at 7:28 PM, Rodney Somerstein wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Chris and David for the suggestions. I'm already aware of
>>> other editors. But, as I mentioned, I'm currently learning Python  
>>> and
>>> an environment that actually lets me execute python code without
>>> having to first create and save a file is superior for that purpose,
>>> in my opinion.
>>>
>>> I already own BBEdit and have for many years. So, when I start
>>> actually writing real code, I will likely use that.
>>>
>>>> For what it' worth, perhaps to save you some time, I recently spent
>>>> a  day evaluating
>>>> these tools. Horses for courses, but for me:
>>>> TextWrangler is a freebie BBEditLite - a very nice word-processor
>>>> which is keyword aware;
>>>> SPE is a full-blown development environment which includes wxglade
>>>> interface to wxwindows
>>>> I found it difficult to 'grock' quickly but it could be good
>>>> ScrIDE is 1/2 way between.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> On 26/10/2006, at 2:13 AM, Christopher Barker wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> While we're at it, if all you want is a Python-aware editor --  
>>>>> then
>>>>> there area a lot of other (better?) options. Scan the archives of
>>>>> this
>>>>> list for suggestions. A few:
>>>>>
>>>>> BBEdit (TextWrangler?)
>>>>> Eclipse
>>>>> SPE
>>>>> Jedit
>>>>> ScrIDE
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Assorted *nix editors: emaca, VIm, etc, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> or look here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors
>>>>>
>>>>> -Chris
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> Rodney Somerstein            Always remember that you are unique...
>>> rodneys at io.com               just like everyone else.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________
>> experimental polymedia:	www.avatar.com.au
>> Sonic Communications Research Group,
>> University of Canberra:	 www.canberra.edu.au
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
>

_______________________________________
experimental polymedia:	www.avatar.com.au
Sonic Communications Research Group,
University of Canberra:	 www.canberra.edu.au





From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Sun Oct 29 08:49:18 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 08:49:18 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
In-Reply-To: <104E5485-AEA5-41FD-948A-DD5B2550F606@avatar.com.au>
References: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>
	<13282708.1161776097764.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<57658.200.182.25.98.1161777632.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<6393136.1161787555656.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<453F8D1F.3050908@noaa.gov>
	<C2BE66A5-2843-4E94-9915-D95B983D9CCC@avatar.com.au>
	<p06240805c1663033bd96@[192.168.0.200]>
	<C5E2F37D-A71D-4233-9F2A-4BC1B936CD93@avatar.com.au>
	<8511828C-6B69-4832-8FC8-CDB2BCCEA0BC@mac.com>
	<104E5485-AEA5-41FD-948A-DD5B2550F606@avatar.com.au>
Message-ID: <BC0A7045-997C-4189-9E9A-193FE3D48F9F@mac.com>


On Oct 29, 2006, at 6:01 AM, David Worrall wrote:

> There was a time a while ago when IDLE was a pain/unstable etc etc on
> intel OSX
> and I guess I just gave up. I used to use it all the time.
> Perhaps it works ok these days.
> Stopping to sharpen one's axe is ok as long as one doesn't get bogged
> down in the process.
> Now, where was that nifty little chain-saw I had yesterday?.. :-)

IDLE should be better than it once was, I've done some work for  
Python 2.5 to make it behave more like a true OSX application. It is  
still a long way from being a great application (and not only on  
OSX), but it is quite useable.

As full disclosure: I don't use IDLE very often but am a vi junkie.  
None of the GUI editors have made enough of an impact yet to get me  
to go through the painfull process of rewireing my fingers.

Ronald

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From vip at avatar.com.au  Sun Oct 29 09:10:00 2006
From: vip at avatar.com.au (David Worrall)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 19:10:00 +1100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
In-Reply-To: <BC0A7045-997C-4189-9E9A-193FE3D48F9F@mac.com>
References: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>
	<13282708.1161776097764.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<57658.200.182.25.98.1161777632.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<6393136.1161787555656.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<453F8D1F.3050908@noaa.gov>
	<C2BE66A5-2843-4E94-9915-D95B983D9CCC@avatar.com.au>
	<p06240805c1663033bd96@[192.168.0.200]>
	<C5E2F37D-A71D-4233-9F2A-4BC1B936CD93@avatar.com.au>
	<8511828C-6B69-4832-8FC8-CDB2BCCEA0BC@mac.com>
	<104E5485-AEA5-41FD-948A-DD5B2550F606@avatar.com.au>
	<BC0A7045-997C-4189-9E9A-193FE3D48F9F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <78218631-08D0-4A40-9C79-5E97B370A2B1@avatar.com.au>

>


yes .... I remember the pain of the rewire from ed to vi !
isn't it amazing that the fingers remember!
There was a time last century when I didn't use a unix machine for 10  
years, then logged onto an SGi, fired up vi and in 30 seconds flat  
all the commands
were at my fingertips. Like  playing Bach learned in childhood!
I've always thought the fist (mouse) was a retrogressive replacement  
to fingers. Now if only well all used Dvorak! :-)

David
at least Mac now has the option, and what an irony that we've come  
such full circle.

> As full disclosure: I don't use IDLE very often but am a vi junkie.  
> None of the GUI editors have made enough of an impact yet to get me  
> to go through the painfull process of rewireing my fingers.
>
> Ronald
>

_______________________________________
experimental polymedia:	www.avatar.com.au
Sonic Communications Research Group,
University of Canberra:	 www.canberra.edu.au





From sjatkins at gmail.com  Sun Oct 29 03:14:48 2006
From: sjatkins at gmail.com (Samantha Atkins)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 19:14:48 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] is there a pyobjc installer compatible with python
	2.5?
Message-ID: <7411703F-C3E2-47D0-A006-473E116AF0DA@apple.com>

The current installer refuses to install after a python 2.5 install.   
Is there a way around this?

- samantha


From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Sun Oct 29 13:37:24 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 13:37:24 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] is there a pyobjc installer compatible with
	python	2.5?
In-Reply-To: <7411703F-C3E2-47D0-A006-473E116AF0DA@apple.com>
References: <7411703F-C3E2-47D0-A006-473E116AF0DA@apple.com>
Message-ID: <9071D1DB-14C8-4914-9BFE-96F31022F7D4@mac.com>


On Oct 29, 2006, at 3:14 AM, Samantha Atkins wrote:

> The current installer refuses to install after a python 2.5 install.
> Is there a way around this?

Install from source. Make sure you have Xcode installed, including  
the Universal SDK and then install setuptools and use  
'easy_install-2.5 install pyobjc' to install PyObjC.

Ronald

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From chris.van.bael at gmail.com  Sun Oct 29 21:55:18 2006
From: chris.van.bael at gmail.com (Chris Van Bael)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 21:55:18 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problems with py2app for i386
Message-ID: <5465ee790610291255x496980ban233d0c753bc1edbe@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm building an application on a PPC Mini in Python with PyGame.
When I run "python setup.py py2app" I get a .app file made that runs
on my (and other) PPC Macs.  But it fails on Intel Macs.
I presume these last lines I get have something to do with it:
"
/usr/bin/strip: for architecture i386 object:
/Users/chrisvanbael/Childsplay/Sources/childsplay-0.84.1/dist/childsplay.app/Contents/MacOS/childsplay
malformed object (unknown flavor for flavor number 0 in LC_UNIXTHREAD
command 10 can't byte swap it)
/usr/bin/strip: for architecture i386 object:
/Users/chrisvanbael/Childsplay/Sources/childsplay-0.84.1/dist/childsplay.app/Contents/MacOS/python
malformed object (unknown flavor for flavor number 0 in LC_UNIXTHREAD
command 13 can't byte swap it)
stripping saved 11991384 bytes (12298552 / 24289936)
"

Any ideas where my problem is; is it in my code or a problem of py2app
or the strip application?
Do I need to use the no-strip option or prefer-ppc for a universal binary?

Thanks for any help.

Chris

From thorthor at altern.org  Mon Oct 30 13:29:43 2006
From: thorthor at altern.org (thor)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:29:43 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] py2app problems
Message-ID: <D86EB1D7-1A34-49B1-9145-ED6265656A9A@altern.org>


Hi list

I'm trying to build an app with py2app. The project is using pygame and
pyOpenGL and all that is imported in the main file.

I'm on PowerBook, OS X 10.4.6

I try to build the setupfile with py2applet as recommended but I get  
this:

thm21-mac-pb:~/Desktop/opengl thm21$ py2applet --make-setup myApp.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/bin/py2applet", line 2, in ?
     from py2app.scripts.script_py2applet import main
ImportError: No module named scripts.script_py2applet
thm21-mac-pb:~/Desktop/opengl thm21$


Ok. so I copy a py2app setup file from the pygame example folder of  
py2app and make this:

from setuptools import setup

setup(
     app=["myApp.py"],
     setup_requires=["py2app"],
)


Run this in the command line: python setup.py py2app

But after a while I get the following message:
(myApp.app is now 8.6 MB)

stripping SDL
stripping SDL_mixer
stripping _File.so
stripping zlib.so
/usr/bin/strip: for architecture i386 object: /Users/thm21/Desktop/ 
opengl/dist/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/stripped malformed object  
(unknown flavor for flavor number 0 in LC_UNIXTHREAD command 10 can't  
byte swap it)
stripping saved 4548552 bytes (7711040 / 12259592)
thm21-mac-pb:~/Desktop/opengl thm21$


Could someone tell me how to proceed?

Thanks
thor

From bob at redivi.com  Mon Oct 30 18:16:20 2006
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 09:16:20 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] py2app problems
In-Reply-To: <D86EB1D7-1A34-49B1-9145-ED6265656A9A@altern.org>
References: <D86EB1D7-1A34-49B1-9145-ED6265656A9A@altern.org>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290610300916n42476b77t918fedd96ddbdd63@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/30/06, thor <thorthor at altern.org> wrote:
>
> Hi list
>
> I'm trying to build an app with py2app. The project is using pygame and
> pyOpenGL and all that is imported in the main file.
>
> I'm on PowerBook, OS X 10.4.6
>
> I try to build the setupfile with py2applet as recommended but I get
> this:
>
> thm21-mac-pb:~/Desktop/opengl thm21$ py2applet --make-setup myApp.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "/usr/local/bin/py2applet", line 2, in ?
>      from py2app.scripts.script_py2applet import main
> ImportError: No module named scripts.script_py2applet
> thm21-mac-pb:~/Desktop/opengl thm21$

It looks like you didn't uninstall a previous installation of py2app
properly. The documentation has a section on how to do that.

http://svn.pythonmac.org/py2app/py2app/trunk/doc/index.html#uninstalling-py2app-0-2-x-or-earlier

-bob


-bob

From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov  Mon Oct 30 19:28:54 2006
From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Christopher Barker)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 10:28:54 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
In-Reply-To: <ei03lp$2eo$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>
	<p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>
	<13282708.1161776097764.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<57658.200.182.25.98.1161777632.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<6393136.1161787555656.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>
	<453F8D1F.3050908@noaa.gov> <ei03lp$2eo$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <45464466.4040807@noaa.gov>

Jacob Rus wrote:

> I'm surprised that TextMate didn't make this list.

That was a very quick, off the cuff list from my brain. It was not 
intended to be comprehensive. I do hope TextMate is listed on the wiki 
page at python.org -- if not, someone should add it.

> Admittedly, the python bundle is not as polished
> as those for some other languages (html and ruby for instance), but it
> is still head and shoulders above all the other editors listed above, in
> my opinion.  some more people from this list ought to give it a shot
> (the python bundle really needs some more competent contributors to live
> up to its potential,

Can the Python mode be altered/improved by users? Is TextMate open to 
input/contribution from users? That is what it takes to really make it 
shine. A couple years ago a BBedit user posted excerpts from an email 
discussion with the BBedit folks about how they might improve BBEdit for 
Python -- and it came down to the BBedit folks saying : you shouldn't 
want to do that, and we're not going to let you -- it was clear none of 
them was a regular Python user, so BBedit's Python support is still 
severely lacking.

The primary reason I use Xemacs is because it has excellent modes for 
EVERY kind of text I edit -- and ALL of them were written by serious 
users of the respective type of text -- that's why they are so good 
(didn't Guido write the original Python mode for Emacs?)

I'm still looking for an editor/IDE that supports everything I do, and 
works on all three platforms I need it on -- Eclipse and Jedit look 
promising, but I haven't had the courage to re-train my fingers yet!

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                     		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chris.Barker at noaa.gov

From bob at redivi.com  Mon Oct 30 21:18:59 2006
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:18:59 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problems with py2app for i386
In-Reply-To: <5465ee790610291255x496980ban233d0c753bc1edbe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5465ee790610291255x496980ban233d0c753bc1edbe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290610301218i72e0fefembcb4de18d596b2c5@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/29/06, Chris Van Bael <chris.van.bael at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm building an application on a PPC Mini in Python with PyGame.
> When I run "python setup.py py2app" I get a .app file made that runs
> on my (and other) PPC Macs.  But it fails on Intel Macs.
> I presume these last lines I get have something to do with it:
> "
> /usr/bin/strip: for architecture i386 object:
> /Users/chrisvanbael/Childsplay/Sources/childsplay-0.84.1/dist/childsplay.app/Contents/MacOS/childsplay
> malformed object (unknown flavor for flavor number 0 in LC_UNIXTHREAD
> command 10 can't byte swap it)
> /usr/bin/strip: for architecture i386 object:
> /Users/chrisvanbael/Childsplay/Sources/childsplay-0.84.1/dist/childsplay.app/Contents/MacOS/python
> malformed object (unknown flavor for flavor number 0 in LC_UNIXTHREAD
> command 13 can't byte swap it)
> stripping saved 11991384 bytes (12298552 / 24289936)
> "
>
> Any ideas where my problem is; is it in my code or a problem of py2app
> or the strip application?
> Do I need to use the no-strip option or prefer-ppc for a universal binary?

It looks like you probably didn't install py2app properly. Perform a
full uninstallation and follow the installation instructions in the
documentation.

http://svn.pythonmac.org/py2app/py2app/trunk/doc/index.html#installation

-bob

From jose at stat.ucla.edu  Mon Oct 30 22:37:34 2006
From: jose at stat.ucla.edu (Jose Hales-Garcia)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 13:37:34 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Opening Tkinter X11 windows in remote displays
Message-ID: <63B4E23B-BB44-4B38-AB74-CFD7FCE11CAA@stat.ucla.edu>


Sorry if this has been asked already.

We're trying to get the Python Tkinter's widgets to appear remotely  
on an X11 server.  So far we're only able to open widgets on the  
local console.  Trying to get them to appear remotely results in the  
error message...

kCGErrorRangeCheck : Window Server communications from outside of  
session allowed for root and console user only
INIT_Processeses(), could not establish the default connection to the  
WindowServer.Abort

This is a problem with the Apple version of Python (v2.3.5) and the  
latest pre-compiled universal Python (v2.5).  We're running Mac OS X  
10.4.8 on both client and server.  I've double checked the settings.   
In SSH we have X11Forwarding turned on.  The .Xauthority file  
contains the correct host information.  I've set the DISPLAY variable  
correctly.

I am able to open X11 windows on the remote server.  For instance,  
the R statistics package can open windows remotely.

Thank you for your time,
Jose


From rowen at cesmail.net  Mon Oct 30 23:37:38 2006
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:37:38 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Another tcl/tk problem with python--PIL this time
Message-ID: <rowen-8B8A95.14373730102006@sea.gmane.org>

You'll recall that I reported crashes with the macpython.org matplotlib 
package. This turned out to be because I was using my own Tcl/Tk (a good 
version instead of the version installed with 10.4).

It turns out PIL has a similar but more subtle problem. It works for me, 
but if I use py2app to bundle an application that uses PIL, it fails one 
some users machines. Building a new PIL locally fixes the problem, of 
course.

This is another plea for the _tkinter.so that comes with the standard 
macpython to be set up to look for a Tcl/Tk first in 
/Library/Frameworks, then in /System/Library/Frameworks. I think the 
packages would have just worked fine with that change (though i've not 
ripped out my Tcl/Tk to prove that).

The current situation is nasty:
- Any serious Tcl/Tk/Tkinter user will install a better version of 
Tcl/Tk on MacOS X.
- MacPython needs a simple modification to support it:
<http://www.astro.washington.edu/rowen/PythonOnMacOSX.html>
- But this modification breaks matplotlib and PIL, and perhaps any 
python package installed with a binary installer built on an unmodified 
MacPython.
Ouch.

I know there is talk of including a Tcl/Tk with Python like Windows 
does. I hope we don't do that because, based on my experience with 
Tcl/Tk on Mac, unix and Windows, the Windows solution is the worst of 
the lot:
- It makes upgrading tcl/tk harder. Serious users of Tcl/Tk want this to 
get useful bug fixes (no package that large is perfect).
- It makes installing tcl/tk additions harder (for example I use the 
snack sound library). On Windows it's not easy to figure out where to 
put these extensions, nor is it easy to test them!

Modifying _tkinter.so is trivial and it does the job. If it was part of 
the standard MacPython distro then the problem with broken extensions 
would probably be solved. If proof of that assertion would tip the 
balance, I'm willing to do more leg work on it.

-- Russell


From wddozier at mac.com  Tue Oct 31 00:55:36 2006
From: wddozier at mac.com (Bill Dozier)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 15:55:36 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] psyco
Message-ID: <27D5472C-CC0D-4D9E-8D03-FF40ECC2D69B@mac.com>

I had hopes, when reading this post, that setting -mstackrealign  
would magically make psyco work on MacIntel. No such luck. I still  
got a seg fault. Rats.

--
"I can sum that up in one word: youneverknow." -- Joaquin Andujar

Bill Dozier
wddozier at mac.com


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From chris.van.bael at gmail.com  Tue Oct 31 07:09:57 2006
From: chris.van.bael at gmail.com (Chris Van Bael)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 07:09:57 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problems with py2app for i386
In-Reply-To: <6a36e7290610301218i72e0fefembcb4de18d596b2c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5465ee790610291255x496980ban233d0c753bc1edbe@mail.gmail.com>
	<6a36e7290610301218i72e0fefembcb4de18d596b2c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5465ee790610302209q7cb4c888kd3140f5d42592f29@mail.gmail.com>

Strange because I followed that manual exactly.
But I'll try again...

Thanks for the help

On 10/30/06, Bob Ippolito <bob at redivi.com> wrote:
> On 10/29/06, Chris Van Bael <chris.van.bael at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm building an application on a PPC Mini in Python with PyGame.
> > When I run "python setup.py py2app" I get a .app file made that runs
> > on my (and other) PPC Macs.  But it fails on Intel Macs.
> > I presume these last lines I get have something to do with it:
> > "
> > /usr/bin/strip: for architecture i386 object:
> > /Users/chrisvanbael/Childsplay/Sources/childsplay-0.84.1/dist/childsplay.app/Contents/MacOS/childsplay
> > malformed object (unknown flavor for flavor number 0 in LC_UNIXTHREAD
> > command 10 can't byte swap it)
> > /usr/bin/strip: for architecture i386 object:
> > /Users/chrisvanbael/Childsplay/Sources/childsplay-0.84.1/dist/childsplay.app/Contents/MacOS/python
> > malformed object (unknown flavor for flavor number 0 in LC_UNIXTHREAD
> > command 13 can't byte swap it)
> > stripping saved 11991384 bytes (12298552 / 24289936)
> > "
> >
> > Any ideas where my problem is; is it in my code or a problem of py2app
> > or the strip application?
> > Do I need to use the no-strip option or prefer-ppc for a universal binary?
>
> It looks like you probably didn't install py2app properly. Perform a
> full uninstallation and follow the installation instructions in the
> documentation.
>
> http://svn.pythonmac.org/py2app/py2app/trunk/doc/index.html#installation
>
> -bob
>

From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Tue Oct 31 07:50:53 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 07:50:53 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Opening Tkinter X11 windows in remote displays
In-Reply-To: <63B4E23B-BB44-4B38-AB74-CFD7FCE11CAA@stat.ucla.edu>
References: <63B4E23B-BB44-4B38-AB74-CFD7FCE11CAA@stat.ucla.edu>
Message-ID: <C081C6CC-3766-4FA3-8754-D8714FE903AD@mac.com>


On Oct 30, 2006, at 10:37 PM, Jose Hales-Garcia wrote:

>
> Sorry if this has been asked already.
>
> We're trying to get the Python Tkinter's widgets to appear remotely
> on an X11 server.  So far we're only able to open widgets on the
> local console.  Trying to get them to appear remotely results in the
> error message...

You'll have to build your own copy of the _tkinter extension. Tkinter  
for the framework builds of python (that is Apple's version of python  
and the various universal builds) link with the Aqua version of Tk  
which has  nothing to do with X11.

Ronald

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From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Tue Oct 31 07:53:57 2006
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 07:53:57 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Another tcl/tk problem with python--PIL this
	time
In-Reply-To: <rowen-8B8A95.14373730102006@sea.gmane.org>
References: <rowen-8B8A95.14373730102006@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <FE16AEF6-F3E2-44C2-B6C4-E31050F57FE8@mac.com>


On Oct 30, 2006, at 11:37 PM, Russell E. Owen wrote:

>
> This is another plea for the _tkinter.so that comes with the standard
> macpython to be set up to look for a Tcl/Tk first in
> /Library/Frameworks, then in /System/Library/Frameworks. I think the
> packages would have just worked fine with that change (though i've not
> ripped out my Tcl/Tk to prove that).

Please test again using Python 2.5, and probably 2.4.4 as well.  
Python 2.5 definitely links against /Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework.  
That was entirely unintentional, I didn't know I had a local Tk install.

Ronald
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From thorthor at altern.org  Tue Oct 31 14:30:05 2006
From: thorthor at altern.org (thor)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:30:05 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problems with py2app for i386
In-Reply-To: <5465ee790610302209q7cb4c888kd3140f5d42592f29@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5465ee790610291255x496980ban233d0c753bc1edbe@mail.gmail.com>
	<6a36e7290610301218i72e0fefembcb4de18d596b2c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<5465ee790610302209q7cb4c888kd3140f5d42592f29@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1A54B3E3-36C8-4FE2-8340-6F571F4D0EB9@altern.org>

On 31 Oct 2006, at 06:09, Chris Van Bael wrote:


> Strange because I followed that manual exactly.
> But I'll try again...
>

If you check my mail from yesterday, I was also having problems with
this i386 biteswapping thing. I think my py2app script is stopping at  
the
same place as yours.  (I'm on OSX 10.4.6)

And I followed the instructions as well.

Is this because of recent additions for MacIntel universal support?

thor


From rowen at cesmail.net  Tue Oct 31 23:18:00 2006
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:18:00 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Another tcl/tk problem with python--PIL this
	time
References: <rowen-8B8A95.14373730102006@sea.gmane.org>
	<FE16AEF6-F3E2-44C2-B6C4-E31050F57FE8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <rowen-194036.14180031102006@sea.gmane.org>

In article <FE16AEF6-F3E2-44C2-B6C4-E31050F57FE8 at mac.com>,
 Ronald Oussoren <ronaldoussoren at mac.com> wrote:

> On Oct 30, 2006, at 11:37 PM, Russell E. Owen wrote:
> 
> >
> > This is another plea for the _tkinter.so that comes with the standard
> > macpython to be set up to look for a Tcl/Tk first in
> > /Library/Frameworks, then in /System/Library/Frameworks. I think the
> > packages would have just worked fine with that change (though i've not
> > ripped out my Tcl/Tk to prove that).
> 
> Please test again using Python 2.5, and probably 2.4.4 as well.  
> Python 2.5 definitely links against /Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework.  
> That was entirely unintentional, I didn't know I had a local Tk install.

I just tried it for Python 2.4.4 and you are right. Great!

Any chance of doing it intentionally from now on? :)

I'm holding off installing 2.5 for now because I have doubts that 
Numeric and numarray will work with it (due to the change to array 
indices for C extensions that is intended to support 64 bit computing); 
I'm planning to migrate my application to numpy before adopting 2.5. Is 
there an easy way to install the 2.5 from binary without it becoming the 
"current" version? I'd be happy to have it around to play with. (I think 
I hacked it once by installing 2.5b, ditching the receipt, then 
installing 2.4.x, but I'm not sure it's Kosher).

Thank you very much for supporting user-added Tcl/Tk in the standard Mac 
installer for Python 2.4.4 and 2.5.

-- Russell


From kw at codebykevin.com  Mon Oct 30 19:36:09 2006
From: kw at codebykevin.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 13:36:09 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE and MacPython 2.5
In-Reply-To: <45464466.4040807@noaa.gov>
References: <mailman.10.1161770403.24790.pythonmac-sig@python.org>	<p06240800c164df416035@[192.168.0.200]>	<13282708.1161776097764.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>	<57658.200.182.25.98.1161777632.squirrel@webmail.io.com>	<6393136.1161787555656.JavaMail.ronaldoussoren@mac.com>	<453F8D1F.3050908@noaa.gov>
	<ei03lp$2eo$1@sea.gmane.org> <45464466.4040807@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <45464619.2000509@codebykevin.com>

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FWIW, I think that IDLE under MacPython 2.5 is a perfectly usable little
editor. Ronald did a great job getting it tweaked to behave better as a
Mac application. I prefer IDLE to other environments for editing Python,
including Aquamacs and Komodo.

- --
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
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