[Pythonmac-SIG] Build script for Universal Python

[Kevin Ollivier]

Hi Ronald,

On Feb 13, 2006, at 1:28 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:

[snip]

> I haven't seen the icon, is it online somewhere? BTW. I do use  
> wxPython at work, it is the easiest way to develop windows GUI's  
> without leaving the comforts of my mac.

If you're running Tiger, go to /Developer/Examples/Python/wxPython/ 
demo/wxpdemo.ico. Run demo.py in that same folder to see the icon on  
the dock. It really doesn't look that bad, IMHO; it just lacks the  
realistic color shading OS X icons have. I'll try to track down who  
worked on it and see if they can or are willing to do an XP/OS X  
style update.

>
>>
>> The Apple/snake icon, from an image perspective (and that's all it  
>> is...), has several problems with it. First, real snakes are scary  
>> and some people don't like looking at scary things. I had to put  
>> stickers over the cover of my O'Reilly Python library reference  
>> book because the snake on there creeps my wife out. I think I'll  
>> have a harder time now getting her to use Python... I won't even  
>> get into the biblical connotations, etc. of a mean-looking snake  
>> wrapped around an apple, but I think being non-offensive is,  
>> probably, a good idea if we're still talking about making Python  
>> appeal to others. As has been stated before in this discussion, we  
>> probably won't offend "too many people" with these things, but why  
>> do we have to offend anyone at all? A non-offensive 12-ton weight  
>> is at least better than a somewhat offensive snake.
>>
>> A more cartoonish/abstract design like the wxPython one won't  
>> spook anyone or have scary connotations, and while some people may  
>> not like it, it's closer to the Windows Python icon and heck,  
>> icons like Adium's are actually some of my favorites. There's also  
>> the issue that at small sizes, the snake becomes unrecognizable  
>> anyways making the icon look like an Apple with a yellow something  
>> at the bottom. But of course, this was all dregged up and  
>> discussed before.
>>
>> I really wish Python itself would get a standard icon across  
>> platforms, but that's another story. (The web site redesign seems  
>> totally stalled....)
>
> A standard icon would be nice, but we really have to update the 10- 
> ton icon its age is too obviously an OS9 icon. I know the snake is  
> offensive/scary to some people, but I'm afraid that if we don't  
> change now we'll never change. I don't mind having the snake icon  
> on Bob's site in a first beta release of Universal Python if that  
> stirs things up enough to get a less offensive icon in the final  
> release. Bonus points for someone that is inspired by Monty Python.

I really don't think it will stir up anything; most people won't  
notice until it makes it's way into 10.5 or it is somehow made  
visible to the rest of the Python community. By the amount of people  
packaging for OS X, I really don't think the group of people closely  
following Python on OS X is very large at all, unfortunately. If we  
want to stir up things, I think we should look for and contact icon  
designers who will do free or discounted open source work. If we need  
to pay to get one, try contacting the main Python community and doing  
some fundraising. A single icon design usually isn't *that*  
expensive, and you can probably get something that really does adhere  
to Apple HIGs on icon design and that is at least acceptable to most  
people. Plus, we could then use it for XP, etc. as well.

As for the design itself, I'd say go for a simple/abstract design,  
like the snake icon I pointed out. It's not all snakes that are  
"bad", just ones that look realistic and intimidating. Or, we could  
go with the Py letters, something like a Skype rounded bevel button  
with Py written inside it. It's simple, clean, and the Py obviously  
promotes the 'brand'. :-) We could also consider some sort of paper  
with Py written inside it to imply scripting, or perhaps use a gear  
shape instead of a plain round button style... In general, think  
simple, clean, abstract, nice colors. :-) I think that describes  
about every OS X icon I've seen. (some look 'realistic', but they are  
clearly not photo-realistic. They are semi-realistic but with more  
vibrant colors and appealing designs than reality would provide. ;-)  
And BTW, I was able to get a nice style free icon for my own wxPython  
app, EClass (see the icon at the top of http://eclass.net/), just by  
giving credit to the designer, so I think there are people out there  
interested in this sort of thing, especially for a high visibility  
project like Python.

I totally agree with you about getting another icon, but if we're  
going to push on it now, IMHO let's try to do this right and make  
everyone at least grudgingly accepting of the icon. ;-)

Thanks,

Kevin

> Ronald