[Pythonmac-SIG] My stab at a new page

[Rodney Somerstein]

At 1:20 PM -0800 2/9/06, Bob Ippolito wrote:
>py2app is the solution for application packaging, and you must use 
>it  with a third party Python installation (e.g. Python 2.4.1) in 
>order  to come up with something that's redistributable and robust. 
>If you  happen to use the system Python, then you will produce a 
>package that  only runs on the particular release of Mac OS X that 
>you build it  with.  In other words, when you or your users upgrade 
>to Mac OS X  10.5, any system-Python built application bundle will 
>cease to  function at all.
>
>It is actually not much different than on other platforms.  Many 
>py2exe-based setup scripts work identically with py2app if you 
>change  the import statement.  Mac-specific features of course 
>require Mac- specific solutions, but the standard stuff is identical.
>
>There is some minimal documentation: http://undefined.org/python/ py2app.html

In general, I know this. I try to at least skim the messages on this 
list on a regular basis to keep up with what is going on in the 
MacPython world. But, for someone who is new to Python, the 
documentation you are pointing to is pretty rough going. It would be 
really nice to have a more basic introduction to what py2app actually 
does. Then, a step by step description of how to make it work, rather 
than just jumping into setup.py scripts. (Where does setup.py come 
from? The documentation doesn't say. I'm not asking this, just 
pointing out that it will be confusing to someone just trying to 
learn this stuff. They are going to want to know why they have to 
"build their application" when they already have it running.)

>Any other questions you have can probably be answered by py2exe 
>documentation and/or this list.

Yes, I'm sure they can be. I don't see any reference to actually 
taking a look at the py2exe documentation. Everything states that it 
is similar, but for the Mac. It doesn't say take a look there if you 
need more help. Or to ask here.

But this discussion is about how to make this easier for people to 
get into. Having to ask here isn't that bad. Everyone here is very 
friendly and helpful. But, many people don't like to subscribe to 
mailing lists, especially to ask one question. Most of the 
discussions that go on here are *WAY* over the heads of beginners and 
even many intermediate Python users. And, the answers often times 
make assumptions about what the user knows rather than offering basic 
advice.

I'm not complaining, really. I know that you and everyone here do 
this on your own time and do your best to help everyone. Python on 
the Mac really needs a very easily accessible discussion board for 
people to read and ask questions. python-mac is intimidating to 
someone getting started. Those who aren't so timid may stick it out, 
but many people will likely skim the messages on the python.org 
website and walk away after deciding that this stuff is just too 
tough. The ones who are already programmers aren't the ones I'm 
talking about. I'm more talking about the new scripter or maybe 
someone who has done a little bit of AppleScript or possibly HTML and 
basic JavaScript.

While I can articulate what I want to see and can put myself in the 
place of the absolute beginner (I'm not too far from that myself with 
Python and I teach technical courses to varying skill levels of users 
for a living), I unfortunately don't have the Python background to 
write this material myself.

I hope this helps get across what I'm looking for and what I think 
will benefit people trying to get started with Python on the Mac.

-Rodney