[Pythonmac-SIG] New Page, first proposal

[Christopher Barker]

Charles Hartman wrote:
> But we're not. I never use the Terminal with Python. I use WingIDE  
> (can't recommend to beginners because it uses X11).

Um, why not? I think X11 now comes with OS-X by default. Or does it jsut 
look&feel  too non-Macish.

However, I think we need to have a totally open source (or at least 
free-as-in-beer) approach, even if we have recommendations for 
commercial products as well.

> Nor is their relation of source file to output particularly  
> (graphically) clear.

What does it set the working directory to when you run a script?

>> The more I think about it, the less terrible the Terminal sounds.   
>> Starting as session there is easy.  Any files saved go to the  
>> user's top directory.  A next step is just to show them how to  
>> change directories.

I agree. It really is easy enough. For most people.

> Learning even a simple subset of UI commands at the  
> same time, which have no apparent conceptual connection to the  
> problems you're attending to in writing your first programs, makes it  
> harder. I just don't see why we need to leave that obstacle in the way.

We don't have the tools to not do it, that's why. However, if we make 
sure the installer automagically takes care of the PATH issue, we can 
then recommend the "Open Terminal Here" applet, and things get pretty 
easy: navigate around to your script in the Finder, click "Open Terminal 
Here", type "python NameOfMyScript.py", hit return, and your code runs. 
Hit the up-arrow, then return, and it runs again. They don't even need 
to know that the terminal isn't a special tool for running python scripts!

BTW, "Open Terminal Here" is a nifty applet you can put in your finder 
that you can click on, and a terminal window will open, and cd itself to 
the directory that the finder is currently viewing. It's clearly an ugly 
hack, but it does the job:

http://www.entropy.ch/software/applescript/welcome.html

Why the heck Apple doesn't build that functionality into finder is 
beyond me.

> You're absolutely right. This is the (*the*?) question that I think  
> we need to settle, to some degree, before any organization of a new  
> page can make much sense.

I don't think so. We know we want the "Easy start for Newbies" page, we 
don't have to know what to write in it before writing the rest. Let's 
not get too ambitious right now. If we can just clean up and make clear 
that main page on PythonMac.org and we'll have made some good progress.

-Chris

-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                     		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chris.Barker at noaa.gov