[Pythonmac-SIG] New Page, first proposal

[Louis Pecora]

Charles Hartman wrote:
> I'm afraid that you're right about this, and I think it's the biggest  
> obstacle to the project of getting (non-Unix) Mac users interested in  
> Python when they go looking for a language, or just looking to get  
> started on programming.
>
> Does the old PythonIDE come with OSX's Python?
>
> I really feel -- do people really think I'm wrong about this? -- that  
> even PythonIDE, limited as it is, is a better beginners'  
> recommendation than the Terminal.
>
> The trouble with the Terminal -- from the point of view of the dyed- 
> in-the-wool Mac user I'm talking about -- is twofold:
> 	diverted from your enthusiasm for learning Python, you have to learn  
> a new
> 		operating system interface ("how do I see what folder I'm in and  
> what files
> 		are in it?"); and
> 	you can get yourself into trouble. ("I had to learn sudo to do X,  
> and it's great,
> 		and now I'm going to try . . .")
> This is why people are afraid of Terminal, and the fear isn't  
> *totally* irrational.
>
> Charles
>
>
>   

Yes, you have a point as does Chris.  We will not solve this now since, 
as Chris says, the best solution is a good working GUI-IDE.   I have not 
tried to use the old MacPython IDE in some time.  I remember it started 
to have some strange behavior though, like jumping twice on one click in 
the scroll bar.  There were also some path problems that, I think, 
require a different solution from the Terminal solution.  More 
confusion?  Maybe. 

Perhaps the question to answer is, how many more people will MacPython 
IDE lure in and then how many of those will we lose when they find out 
they _have_ to switch to terminal and learn some Unix?  I know we can 
only guess this, but if we think the number is small, the Terminal 
approach will not be so bad.  It's what we are Ultimately stuck with.

In addtion you are forgetting that we can have them install TextWrangler 
(a no-brainer) and then run scripts from there.  Almost an IDE in some 
ways.  I work that way from BBEdit and it's fine.  Write script, hit 
'Run.'  Terminal window opens up.  Of course, this does not address an 
interactive session ... or does it.  I never tried that in BBEdit.  
Possible?

The more I think about it, the less terrible the Terminal sounds.  
Starting as session there is easy.  Any files saved go to the user's top 
directory.  A next step is just to show them how to change directories. 

Well, everyone should think about it since this is basic to the way the 
Beginner's section is formed.

-- 
Cheers,

Lou Pecora

Code 6362
Naval Research Lab
Washington, DC  20375
USA
Ph:  +202-767-6002
email:  pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil