From kevino at tulane.edu Sat Nov 1 15:06:51 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Sat Nov 1 15:11:44 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues In-Reply-To: <200310302242.h9UMgXt20265@laplace.astro.cornell.edu> References: <200310302242.h9UMgXt20265@laplace.astro.cornell.edu> Message-ID: Hi Tom, You might want to take a look at wxPackageManager. While working on the Windows 'version', I had to get around the fact that "curl", which PM uses to download packages, wasn't available - so I wrote a pure Python solution using urllib. Since the downloading code is in Python, I could then set up a little progress dialog to update the status and a cancel button to stop the operation. It doesn't tell the size before hitting install, but the progress dialog will say "x of y bytes downloaded" so if y is huge you can just click cancel. You can download it from: http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm/ There are a few other nice features added in as well, which I list on the web site. BTW, it includes the wxPython extension libs, so it should work even if you don't have wxPython installed. (I say should because my I don't have a spare Mac without wxPython to test with.) It is still very new, but it uses PIMP as the backend so most of the code re-write is the GUI itself. The Windows version still needs work, again because of lack of the "unzip" command line tool, but as you can see in the screenshot, I've installed many of the Mac packages successfully with it. ;-) If you do use it, please let me know how it goes! Thanks, Kevin On Oct 30, 2003, at 2:42 PM, Tom Loredo wrote: > > Hi folks- > > I love the package manager, but would like to raise the following > issues (possible bug; feature requests): > > When I try to use PM at Bob I's pimp site, the list of packages is > larger than the window. I can scroll down to see the bottom part of > the list, but as soon as I release the scrollbar it immediately scrolls > back up to the top of the list. Thus many of his packages are > inaccessible. This is using MacPy2.3 on OS 10.2.6 on a G4 Quicksilver > and on a G3 Powerbook. > > My G4 is at home with a dialup connection; my G3 I can bring to > work with T3 access. Having one machine with a slow net connection > is behind the following requests. > > First, I'd love to see package size information in the PM window. > This way I can tell if it's realistic to download a package to > my G4 over my dialup connection. > > Second, I'd love to see useful progress info on the download and > installation. If I check "verbose," PM tries to produce this, > but unfortuately the resulting text window update is too slow and > I'll typically not see *any* of the progress lines until the > download is complete, at which point the window happily shows > me every status line from the start to 100%. > > Finally, I'd love for there to be a way to save a package locally > in a way allowing it to be moved to another machine and installed > via PM there. Perhaps I can just sync the site-packages > directories on both machines, but I don't know if some of the > packages have other side effects. Is this feasible? Ideally > I'd like to grab the packages on my G3 at work, and install them > on my G4 at home. I suppose I could do it directly with distutils, > but it would be neat if PM could do this. > > Thanks, > Tom Loredo > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > From just at letterror.com Sat Nov 1 16:46:06 2003 From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum) Date: Sat Nov 1 16:45:52 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Kevin Ollivier wrote: > http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm/ Looks nice! > There are a few other nice features added in as well, which I list on > the web site. BTW, it includes the wxPython extension libs, so it > should work even if you don't have wxPython installed. (I say should > because my I don't have a spare Mac without wxPython to test with.) It doesn't: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/Volumes/wxPackageManager/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ wxPackageManager.py", line 32, in ? from wxPython.wx import * ImportError: No module named wxPython.wx One thing you should try is the bundlebuilder --semi-standalone option. Bob writes on the MacPython channel: "you have to put libwx in the Frameworks directory". You can do that with the --lib option. Just From bob at redivi.com Sat Nov 1 16:54:11 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sat Nov 1 16:54:35 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 1, 2003, at 4:46 PM, Just van Rossum wrote: > Kevin Ollivier wrote: > >> http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm/ > > Looks nice! > >> There are a few other nice features added in as well, which I list on >> the web site. BTW, it includes the wxPython extension libs, so it >> should work even if you don't have wxPython installed. (I say should >> because my I don't have a spare Mac without wxPython to test with.) > > It doesn't: > > Traceback (most recent call last): > File > "/Volumes/wxPackageManager/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ > wxPackageManager.py", line 32, in ? > from wxPython.wx import * > ImportError: No module named wxPython.wx > > One thing you should try is the bundlebuilder --semi-standalone option. > Bob writes on the MacPython channel: "you have to put libwx in the > Frameworks directory". You can do that with the --lib option. It he did --lib, but not --semi-standalone. I'm unsure if even this would actually work (wxWindows has localization files and stuff elsewhere in /usr/local). I've never tried to make a standalone bundle out of any wx app. -bob From kevino at tulane.edu Sat Nov 1 17:56:06 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Sat Nov 1 18:01:04 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93A41950-0CBE-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Hi Just, Thanks for your prompt reply! On Nov 1, 2003, at 1:46 PM, Just van Rossum wrote: > Kevin Ollivier wrote: > >> http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm/ > > Looks nice! > >> There are a few other nice features added in as well, which I list on >> the web site. BTW, it includes the wxPython extension libs, so it >> should work even if you don't have wxPython installed. (I say should >> because my I don't have a spare Mac without wxPython to test with.) > > It doesn't: > > Traceback (most recent call last): > File > "/Volumes/wxPackageManager/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ > wxPackageManager.py", line 32, in ? > from wxPython.wx import * > ImportError: No module named wxPython.wx > > One thing you should try is the bundlebuilder --semi-standalone option. > Bob writes on the MacPython channel: "you have to put libwx in the > Frameworks directory". You can do that with the --lib option. I tried --semi-standalone and it looks like it did the trick (it added the wxPython files into Modules.zip and wxc.so into ExtensionModules). Sorry, I thought just not specifying standalone did this so I didn't double-check it! I created a new package and uploaded it to the same place (http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm/) if anyone wants to give this a shot. Hopefully now you can do more than just look at the screenshot! Thanks, Kevin From kevino at tulane.edu Sat Nov 1 18:07:39 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Sat Nov 1 18:12:34 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <30C251D5-0CC0-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Hi Bob, On Nov 1, 2003, at 1:54 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Nov 1, 2003, at 4:46 PM, Just van Rossum wrote: > >> Kevin Ollivier wrote: >> >>> http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm/ >> >> Looks nice! >> >>> There are a few other nice features added in as well, which I list on >>> the web site. BTW, it includes the wxPython extension libs, so it >>> should work even if you don't have wxPython installed. (I say should >>> because my I don't have a spare Mac without wxPython to test with.) >> >> It doesn't: >> >> Traceback (most recent call last): >> File >> "/Volumes/wxPackageManager/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ >> wxPackageManager.py", line 32, in ? >> from wxPython.wx import * >> ImportError: No module named wxPython.wx >> >> One thing you should try is the bundlebuilder --semi-standalone >> option. >> Bob writes on the MacPython channel: "you have to put libwx in the >> Frameworks directory". You can do that with the --lib option. > > It he did --lib, but not --semi-standalone. I'm unsure if even this > would actually work (wxWindows has localization files and stuff > elsewhere in /usr/local). I've never tried to make a standalone > bundle out of any wx app. I have successfully distributed standalone apps built with wxPython before using bundlebuilder. Some of the people using it are people who don't even really know what Python and wxPython are, much less have any of these tools installed on their machine, so this does work. ;-) Thanks, Kevin From njriley at uiuc.edu Sat Nov 1 18:15:50 2003 From: njriley at uiuc.edu (Nicholas Riley) Date: Sat Nov 1 18:15:55 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues In-Reply-To: <93A41950-0CBE-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> References: <93A41950-0CBE-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Message-ID: <20031101231550.GA40415@uiuc.edu> On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 02:56:06PM -0800, Kevin Ollivier wrote: > I created a new package and uploaded it to the same place > (http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm/) if anyone wants to give this > a shot. Hopefully now you can do more than just look at the screenshot! Still getting the same problem (no wxPython), unfortunately. I see it in Modules.zip but it must be that it's not ending up on the path. Traceback (most recent call last): File "Contents/Resources/wxPackageManager.py", line 32, in ? from wxPython.wx import * ImportError: No module named wxPython.wx -- =Nicholas Riley | From bob at redivi.com Sat Nov 1 18:22:26 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sat Nov 1 18:22:48 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues In-Reply-To: <20031101231550.GA40415@uiuc.edu> References: <93A41950-0CBE-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <20031101231550.GA40415@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <4176DA6E-0CC2-11D8-844C-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 1, 2003, at 6:15 PM, Nicholas Riley wrote: > On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 02:56:06PM -0800, Kevin Ollivier wrote: >> I created a new package and uploaded it to the same place >> (http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm/) if anyone wants to give >> this >> a shot. Hopefully now you can do more than just look at the >> screenshot! > > Still getting the same problem (no wxPython), unfortunately. I see it > in Modules.zip but it must be that it's not ending up on the path. > > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "Contents/Resources/wxPackageManager.py", line 32, in ? > from wxPython.wx import * > ImportError: No module named wxPython.wx I put this at the top of wxPackageManager.py: import sys, os os.chdir(os.path.split(__file__)[0]) sys.path.append(os.path.realpath('Modules.zip')) The new traceback is: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/Users/bob/download/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ wxPackageManager.py", line 727, in ? app = MyApp(0) File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site- packages/wxPython/wx.py", line 1951, in __init__ File "/Users/bob/download/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ wxPackageManager.py", line 92, in OnInit self.frame = PackageManagerMain() File "/Users/bob/download/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ wxPackageManager.py", line 219, in __init__ self.LoadPackages() File "/Users/bob/download/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ wxPackageManager.py", line 360, in LoadPackages packages = self.mypimp.packages AttributeError: PimpInterface instance has no attribute 'packages' -bob From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Sat Nov 1 18:57:30 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Sat Nov 1 18:57:35 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.3 for Panther - Second build Message-ID: <2789DDBD-0CC7-11D8-808F-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Folks, I've created a second build of MacPython 2.3 for Panther. I would like y'all to check it out, as soon as I get some positive feedback I'll announce it. You can download it from . There are two changes: - The IDE crash that some people were experiencing has been fixed. In addition, the IDE Scripts folder is now in "~/Library/Python/IDE-Scripts" (where it should have been all along). - It is now possible to install the full Python documentation. Until I get some replies from people that it works it is in the experimental PackMan database, . If you've been having any other crucial problems with MacPython 2.3 for Panther that you haven't told me about, and you think they should be included: let me know quickly! -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From bob at redivi.com Sat Nov 1 19:02:15 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sat Nov 1 19:02:35 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.3 for Panther - Second build In-Reply-To: <2789DDBD-0CC7-11D8-808F-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> References: <2789DDBD-0CC7-11D8-808F-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: On Nov 1, 2003, at 6:57 PM, Jack Jansen wrote: > Folks, > I've created a second build of MacPython 2.3 for Panther. I would like > y'all to check it out, as soon as I get some positive feedback I'll > announce it. You can download it from > . > > There are two changes: > - The IDE crash that some people were experiencing has been fixed. In > addition, the IDE Scripts folder is now in > "~/Library/Python/IDE-Scripts" (where it should have been all along). > - It is now possible to install the full Python documentation. Until I > get some replies from people that it works it is in the experimental > PackMan database, > Power_Macintosh.plist>. > > If you've been having any other crucial problems with MacPython 2.3 > for Panther that you haven't told me about, and you think they should > be included: let me know quickly! Distutils tries to put stuff in /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/bin/ -- probably /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/include/ as well. -bob From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Sat Nov 1 19:19:29 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Sat Nov 1 19:19:33 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: PIL 1.1.4 breaks Python 2.3 on Mac OS X 10.3 Panther In-Reply-To: <03Oct31.160636pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> References: <03Oct31.160636pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> Message-ID: <396842B2-0CCA-11D8-808F-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> On 1-nov-03, at 1:06, Bill Janssen wrote: > Thanks to some kind folks on the MacPython ichat channel last night, > we tracked the problem down further. The build process is for some > reason creating an _imaging.so file with the following names in it: > > % otool -Lv /Library/Python/2.3/PIL/_imaging.so > /Library/Python/2.3/PIL/_imaging.so: > Python.framework/Versions/2.3/Python (compatibility version 2.3.0, > current version 2.3.0) > time stamp 1067389093 Tue Oct 28 16:58:13 2003 > /usr/lib/libz.1.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version > 1.0.0) > time stamp 1064385339 Tue Sep 23 23:35:39 2003 > /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current > version 71.0.0) > time stamp 1064354548 Tue Sep 23 15:02:28 2003 > % > > For some reason, the first line "Python.framework..." is wrong (don't > ask me how I know -- I was told). The interesting bit of information would be the link step that setup.py used to link _imaging.so. Could you rebuild it, and send us that line? Something else: there isn't by accident a file or symlink or whatever called "Python.framework" in the directory where you build PIL? -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From jbanko at cox.net Sun Nov 2 11:41:13 2003 From: jbanko at cox.net (Joe Banko) Date: Sun Nov 2 11:41:22 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] latest wxPython Message-ID: <5F241A54-0D53-11D8-AB4F-000A2791351E@cox.net> Just installed Panther and want to do a clean setup of wxPython. What and where is the latest version? When I went to the sourceforge page it said that the page was out of date. thanks joeb From stephenmitchell at letu.edu Sun Nov 2 12:04:26 2003 From: stephenmitchell at letu.edu (Stephen Mitchell) Date: Sun Nov 2 12:04:20 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Current Working Directory in PyObjC Message-ID: <9D9B472C-0D56-11D8-B5D8-0030657D3170@letu.edu> How does one get the current working directory in a double-clickable os X app? I've tried the standard methods: currDir = os.getcwd() currDir = os.popen('pwd').readlines()[0] and while these all may work when built through xCode, when you try to open the double-clickable application from the Finder, these return '/' and '\n' respectively. Any ideas or workarounds? From kevino at tulane.edu Sun Nov 2 12:20:50 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Sun Nov 2 12:25:43 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] latest wxPython In-Reply-To: <5F241A54-0D53-11D8-AB4F-000A2791351E@cox.net> References: <5F241A54-0D53-11D8-AB4F-000A2791351E@cox.net> Message-ID: Hi Joe, If you did a clean install of Panther, then you will either need to install Jack's MacPython framework build for Jaguar, or wait until we get a wxPython build running with Apple's Python. Since none of the wxPython folks had access to seeds, we're trying to work the issues out now and hope to have a build available in the next few days. If you upgraded and had MacPython installed on Jaguar, you should be able to simply run the installer again. http://www.wxpython.org is the place to go to find links to the latest builds. Thanks, Kevin On Nov 2, 2003, at 8:41 AM, Joe Banko wrote: > Just installed Panther and want to do a clean setup of wxPython. What > and where is the latest version? When I went to the sourceforge page > it said that the page was out of date. > thanks > joeb > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > From kevino at tulane.edu Sun Nov 2 12:38:30 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Sun Nov 2 12:43:24 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues In-Reply-To: <4176DA6E-0CC2-11D8-844C-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <93A41950-0CBE-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <20031101231550.GA40415@uiuc.edu> <4176DA6E-0CC2-11D8-844C-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <5F5B5C3A-0D5B-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Hi all, First off, let me say thanks for all your help in testing this! The ImportError was a result of my trying (unsuccessfully) to fix the error message Bob got. I thought it was a sys.path problem, but turns out it wasn't. Bob, I figured out the reason for the error you're getting - PyXML. Although none of the modules in wxPackMan nor PackMan use it, since the xml package is used, some parts of PyXML are picked up and included by bundlebuilder when doing semi/standalone. Unfortunately, this seems to lead to confusion over the expat library in the bundle - looks like PyXML has its own wrapper for expat? In any case, when trying to load the packages from the plist file, I get errors about no "parsers.expat". I resolved this for wxPM by putting "_xmlplus" in the list of excludeModules. So one problem is solved here! However, there is another one now. ^_^; Even when building in semi-standalone mode, sys.path is stripped down to only include Contents/Resources in it. This means, of course, wxPM doesn't "see" any system/user installed Python(s), and that becomes a big problem for wxPM. For the moment, I have two (less than ideal) solutions: - Provide a package (not semi-standalone or standalone) with the entire wxPython module manually copied in, which bloats the package to 5.6 MB. - Provide an alternate package (also not semi-standalone or standalone) for those with wxPython installed. I have gone ahead and done this and posted the packages to http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm/. I have tested the wxPython-included package by renaming my wxPython package (and thus making it 'disappear'), and it worked for me, but YMMV. (wxPython is the only module I use which is not system-installed.) In the meantime, if anyone has a solution to the sys.path issue that would work with semi-standalone, I would greatly appreciate it! Also, as soon as I can get out a wxPython package for Apple Python for Panther, I can make another bundle for that as well. =) Thanks, Kevin On Nov 1, 2003, at 3:22 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Nov 1, 2003, at 6:15 PM, Nicholas Riley wrote: > >> On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 02:56:06PM -0800, Kevin Ollivier wrote: >>> I created a new package and uploaded it to the same place >>> (http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm/) if anyone wants to give >>> this >>> a shot. Hopefully now you can do more than just look at the >>> screenshot! >> >> Still getting the same problem (no wxPython), unfortunately. I see it >> in Modules.zip but it must be that it's not ending up on the path. >> >> Traceback (most recent call last): >> File "Contents/Resources/wxPackageManager.py", line 32, in ? >> from wxPython.wx import * >> ImportError: No module named wxPython.wx > > I put this at the top of wxPackageManager.py: > import sys, os > os.chdir(os.path.split(__file__)[0]) > sys.path.append(os.path.realpath('Modules.zip')) > > The new traceback is: > Traceback (most recent call last): > File > "/Users/bob/download/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ > wxPackageManager.py", line 727, in ? > app = MyApp(0) > File > "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site- > packages/wxPython/wx.py", line 1951, in __init__ > File > "/Users/bob/download/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ > wxPackageManager.py", line 92, in OnInit > self.frame = PackageManagerMain() > File > "/Users/bob/download/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ > wxPackageManager.py", line 219, in __init__ > self.LoadPackages() > File > "/Users/bob/download/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ > wxPackageManager.py", line 360, in LoadPackages > packages = self.mypimp.packages > AttributeError: PimpInterface instance has no attribute 'packages' > > -bob > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > From gherman at darwin.in-berlin.de Sun Nov 2 13:18:49 2003 From: gherman at darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Sun Nov 2 13:18:30 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Current Working Directory in PyObjC In-Reply-To: <9D9B472C-0D56-11D8-B5D8-0030657D3170@letu.edu> Message-ID: <0181F5C7-0D61-11D8-9335-00039345C610@darwin.in-berlin.de> Stephen Mitchell: > How does one get the current working directory in a double-clickable > os X app? Try this: from AppKit import NSBundle NSBundle.mainBundle().bundlePath() Dinu -- Dinu C. Gherman - http://python.net/~gherman ...................................................................... "I never apologize for the United States of America, I don't care what the facts are." (George Bush, Sr.) From stephenmitchell at letu.edu Sun Nov 2 13:55:16 2003 From: stephenmitchell at letu.edu (Stephen Mitchell) Date: Sun Nov 2 13:55:06 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Current Working Directory in PyObjC Message-ID: <192B94F3-0D66-11D8-ABB7-0030657D3170@letu.edu> This works great - only one modification needed (at least on Panther) from AppKit import NSBundle NSBundle.mainBundle().bundlePath() on Panther should be: from Foundation import NSBundle NSBundle.mainBundle().bundlePath() Thanks for your help! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 341 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031102/0217f001/attachment.bin From bob at redivi.com Sun Nov 2 14:16:20 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sun Nov 2 14:16:44 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues In-Reply-To: <5F5B5C3A-0D5B-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> References: <93A41950-0CBE-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <20031101231550.GA40415@uiuc.edu> <4176DA6E-0CC2-11D8-844C-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <5F5B5C3A-0D5B-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Message-ID: <0A7B0813-0D69-11D8-BE4F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> It's getting there! This one works (w/ wxPython, 5-6 "bouncemarks" on my 1ghz pbg4) but: 1) the executable is almost 29 megs! woah! Doesn't even include Python itself :) 2) it doesn't work w/o Jack's MacPython installed because you put #!/usr/local/bin/python in the bootstrap script 3) Lots of messages like this in the Console: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/Users/bob/Desktop/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ wxPackageManager.py", line 498, in OnListClick self.lblVersion.SetLabel("Version: " + pkg.version()) TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'NoneType' objects 4) "View Homepage" button is activated for the first entry, even though IDLE doesn't have a homepage associated. Doesn't validate these controls until you change to another package. 5) cmd-Q doesn't work 6) visual bugs (probably wxWindows' fault) - "bullet" doesn't have transparent background, so it has a white square when highlighted - sometimes (about 1/2 the time) when scrolling down by keyboard the highlight only covers the bottom 3/4 or so of the item -bob On Nov 2, 2003, at 12:38 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: > Hi all, > > First off, let me say thanks for all your help in testing this! > > The ImportError was a result of my trying (unsuccessfully) to fix the > error message Bob got. I thought it was a sys.path problem, but turns > out it wasn't. Bob, I figured out the reason for the error you're > getting - PyXML. Although none of the modules in wxPackMan nor PackMan > use it, since the xml package is used, some parts of PyXML are picked > up and included by bundlebuilder when doing semi/standalone. > Unfortunately, this seems to lead to confusion over the expat library > in the bundle - looks like PyXML has its own wrapper for expat? In any > case, when trying to load the packages from the plist file, I get > errors about no "parsers.expat". > > I resolved this for wxPM by putting "_xmlplus" in the list of > excludeModules. So one problem is solved here! > > However, there is another one now. ^_^; Even when building in > semi-standalone mode, sys.path is stripped down to only include > Contents/Resources in it. This means, of course, wxPM doesn't "see" > any system/user installed Python(s), and that becomes a big problem > for wxPM. For the moment, I have two (less than ideal) solutions: > > - Provide a package (not semi-standalone or standalone) with the > entire wxPython module manually copied in, which bloats the package to > 5.6 MB. > > - Provide an alternate package (also not semi-standalone or > standalone) for those with wxPython installed. > > I have gone ahead and done this and posted the packages to > http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm/. I have tested the > wxPython-included package by renaming my wxPython package (and thus > making it 'disappear'), and it worked for me, but YMMV. (wxPython is > the only module I use which is not system-installed.) > > In the meantime, if anyone has a solution to the sys.path issue that > would work with semi-standalone, I would greatly appreciate it! Also, > as soon as I can get out a wxPython package for Apple Python for > Panther, I can make another bundle for that as well. =) > > Thanks, > > Kevin > > On Nov 1, 2003, at 3:22 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> >> On Nov 1, 2003, at 6:15 PM, Nicholas Riley wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 02:56:06PM -0800, Kevin Ollivier wrote: >>>> I created a new package and uploaded it to the same place >>>> (http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm/) if anyone wants to give >>>> this >>>> a shot. Hopefully now you can do more than just look at the >>>> screenshot! >>> >>> Still getting the same problem (no wxPython), unfortunately. I see >>> it >>> in Modules.zip but it must be that it's not ending up on the path. >>> >>> Traceback (most recent call last): >>> File "Contents/Resources/wxPackageManager.py", line 32, in ? >>> from wxPython.wx import * >>> ImportError: No module named wxPython.wx >> >> I put this at the top of wxPackageManager.py: >> import sys, os >> os.chdir(os.path.split(__file__)[0]) >> sys.path.append(os.path.realpath('Modules.zip')) >> >> The new traceback is: >> Traceback (most recent call last): >> File >> "/Users/bob/download/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ >> wxPackageManager.py", line 727, in ? >> app = MyApp(0) >> File >> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/ >> site-packages/wxPython/wx.py", line 1951, in __init__ >> File >> "/Users/bob/download/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ >> wxPackageManager.py", line 92, in OnInit >> self.frame = PackageManagerMain() >> File >> "/Users/bob/download/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ >> wxPackageManager.py", line 219, in __init__ >> self.LoadPackages() >> File >> "/Users/bob/download/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ >> wxPackageManager.py", line 360, in LoadPackages >> packages = self.mypimp.packages >> AttributeError: PimpInterface instance has no attribute 'packages' >> >> -bob >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig From kevino at tulane.edu Sun Nov 2 14:54:43 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Sun Nov 2 14:59:37 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues In-Reply-To: <0A7B0813-0D69-11D8-BE4F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <93A41950-0CBE-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <20031101231550.GA40415@uiuc.edu> <4176DA6E-0CC2-11D8-844C-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <5F5B5C3A-0D5B-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <0A7B0813-0D69-11D8-BE4F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <67680AEC-0D6E-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Hi Bob, On Nov 2, 2003, at 11:16 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > It's getting there! This one works (w/ wxPython, 5-6 "bouncemarks" on > my 1ghz pbg4) but: > 1) the executable is almost 29 megs! woah! Doesn't even include > Python itself :) Yeah, that's because I did simple copy-and-paste, which includes a bunch of contrib libs not even used in wxPackMan. When doing semi-standalone it's much more intelligent about what to put in there, dropping the size considerably. (7.6 MB was the size if I remember correctly.) I should be able to trim off the extra stuff in the next build, but I just wanted to make sure it works first! > 2) it doesn't work w/o Jack's MacPython installed because you put > #!/usr/local/bin/python in the bootstrap script Since wxPython is compiled with gcc 3.1, it wouldn't work without MacPython anyways. ;-) I hope to have this issue resolved soon, but in the meantime it needs to run from Jack's installation. > 3) Lots of messages like this in the Console: > Traceback (most recent call last): > File > "/Users/bob/Desktop/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ > wxPackageManager.py", line 498, in OnListClick > self.lblVersion.SetLabel("Version: " + pkg.version()) > TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'NoneType' objects Thanks, I missed that. Obviously a simple fix (check that version() returns something!) and will be in the next version. > 4) "View Homepage" button is activated for the first entry, even > though IDLE doesn't have a homepage associated. Doesn't validate > these controls until you change to another package. Another simple fix I missed. I just need to set a selection on launch. > 5) cmd-Q doesn't work But does work for wxWindows apps and bundlebuilder apps using standalone. (Though I noticed the Apple-Q shortcut does not appear next to the quit menu, although it works.) I think there's an issue with Python itself defining the Quit menu key. I set the key for the File menu (which should set it for the app as well), but to reinforce this I'll also add it as a program-wide accelerator key. > 6) visual bugs (probably wxWindows' fault) > - "bullet" doesn't have transparent background, so it has a white > square when highlighted Looks like this might be my fault... they aren't showing a transparent background in Preview.app either. ^_^; I'll set the transparency and see if it still happens. > - sometimes (about 1/2 the time) when scrolling down by keyboard the > highlight only covers the bottom 3/4 or so of the item I'll see if I can figure out the reason for this. All except the last one (and possibly #5) will probably be a quick fix, so I'll work on posting a new version in the next day or two with these issues resolved. I'm currently working on a Panther build of wxPython as there is a quickly growing demand for this! Thanks, Kevin > > On Nov 2, 2003, at 12:38 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> First off, let me say thanks for all your help in testing this! >> >> The ImportError was a result of my trying (unsuccessfully) to fix the >> error message Bob got. I thought it was a sys.path problem, but turns >> out it wasn't. Bob, I figured out the reason for the error you're >> getting - PyXML. Although none of the modules in wxPackMan nor >> PackMan use it, since the xml package is used, some parts of PyXML >> are picked up and included by bundlebuilder when doing >> semi/standalone. Unfortunately, this seems to lead to confusion over >> the expat library in the bundle - looks like PyXML has its own >> wrapper for expat? In any case, when trying to load the packages from >> the plist file, I get errors about no "parsers.expat". >> >> I resolved this for wxPM by putting "_xmlplus" in the list of >> excludeModules. So one problem is solved here! >> >> However, there is another one now. ^_^; Even when building in >> semi-standalone mode, sys.path is stripped down to only include >> Contents/Resources in it. This means, of course, wxPM doesn't "see" >> any system/user installed Python(s), and that becomes a big problem >> for wxPM. For the moment, I have two (less than ideal) solutions: >> >> - Provide a package (not semi-standalone or standalone) with the >> entire wxPython module manually copied in, which bloats the package >> to 5.6 MB. >> >> - Provide an alternate package (also not semi-standalone or >> standalone) for those with wxPython installed. >> >> I have gone ahead and done this and posted the packages to >> http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm/. I have tested the >> wxPython-included package by renaming my wxPython package (and thus >> making it 'disappear'), and it worked for me, but YMMV. (wxPython is >> the only module I use which is not system-installed.) >> >> In the meantime, if anyone has a solution to the sys.path issue that >> would work with semi-standalone, I would greatly appreciate it! Also, >> as soon as I can get out a wxPython package for Apple Python for >> Panther, I can make another bundle for that as well. =) >> >> Thanks, >> >> Kevin >> >> On Nov 1, 2003, at 3:22 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: >> >>> >>> On Nov 1, 2003, at 6:15 PM, Nicholas Riley wrote: >>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 02:56:06PM -0800, Kevin Ollivier wrote: >>>>> I created a new package and uploaded it to the same place >>>>> (http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm/) if anyone wants to give >>>>> this >>>>> a shot. Hopefully now you can do more than just look at the >>>>> screenshot! >>>> >>>> Still getting the same problem (no wxPython), unfortunately. I see >>>> it >>>> in Modules.zip but it must be that it's not ending up on the path. >>>> >>>> Traceback (most recent call last): >>>> File "Contents/Resources/wxPackageManager.py", line 32, in ? >>>> from wxPython.wx import * >>>> ImportError: No module named wxPython.wx >>> >>> I put this at the top of wxPackageManager.py: >>> import sys, os >>> os.chdir(os.path.split(__file__)[0]) >>> sys.path.append(os.path.realpath('Modules.zip')) >>> >>> The new traceback is: >>> Traceback (most recent call last): >>> File >>> "/Users/bob/download/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ >>> wxPackageManager.py", line 727, in ? >>> app = MyApp(0) >>> File >>> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/ >>> site-packages/wxPython/wx.py", line 1951, in __init__ >>> File >>> "/Users/bob/download/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ >>> wxPackageManager.py", line 92, in OnInit >>> self.frame = PackageManagerMain() >>> File >>> "/Users/bob/download/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ >>> wxPackageManager.py", line 219, in __init__ >>> self.LoadPackages() >>> File >>> "/Users/bob/download/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ >>> wxPackageManager.py", line 360, in LoadPackages >>> packages = self.mypimp.packages >>> AttributeError: PimpInterface instance has no attribute 'packages' >>> >>> -bob >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > From bob at redivi.com Sun Nov 2 15:11:16 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sun Nov 2 15:11:40 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues In-Reply-To: <67680AEC-0D6E-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> References: <93A41950-0CBE-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <20031101231550.GA40415@uiuc.edu> <4176DA6E-0CC2-11D8-844C-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <5F5B5C3A-0D5B-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <0A7B0813-0D69-11D8-BE4F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <67680AEC-0D6E-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Message-ID: On Nov 2, 2003, at 2:54 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: >> 2) it doesn't work w/o Jack's MacPython installed because you put >> #!/usr/local/bin/python in the bootstrap script > > Since wxPython is compiled with gcc 3.1, it wouldn't work without > MacPython anyways. ;-) I hope to have this issue resolved soon, but in > the meantime it needs to run from Jack's installation. That's not true, Python extensions do not use the C++ ABI. It works just fine on Panther if you use #!/usr/bin/env python. It doesn't matter which compiler you used, because it's only using C to link the two. -bob From kevino at tulane.edu Sun Nov 2 16:18:08 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Sun Nov 2 16:23:03 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues In-Reply-To: References: <93A41950-0CBE-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <20031101231550.GA40415@uiuc.edu> <4176DA6E-0CC2-11D8-844C-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <5F5B5C3A-0D5B-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <0A7B0813-0D69-11D8-BE4F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <67680AEC-0D6E-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Message-ID: <0E8F83E8-0D7A-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Hi Bob, On Nov 2, 2003, at 12:11 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Nov 2, 2003, at 2:54 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: > >>> 2) it doesn't work w/o Jack's MacPython installed because you put >>> #!/usr/local/bin/python in the bootstrap script >> >> Since wxPython is compiled with gcc 3.1, it wouldn't work without >> MacPython anyways. ;-) I hope to have this issue resolved soon, but >> in the meantime it needs to run from Jack's installation. > > That's not true, Python extensions do not use the C++ ABI. It works > just fine on Panther if you use #!/usr/bin/env python. It doesn't > matter which compiler you used, because it's only using C to link the > two. True, but isn't that because the Python binary in the app bundle is linked to the Python Framework? The hashbang script just sets a few env variables and calls Contents/MacOS/python, which is linked to the MacPython framework build. That's why even if you use #!/usr/bin/env python, the installed status of packages tells whether or not the package is installed in the Framework build, not if they are installed in /Library/Python/2.3. I don't yet know the exact reason why wxPython is failing when run from /usr/bin/python, but it is failing. If I use /usr/bin/python on Panther instead to build the bundlebuilder app, and then copy in the wxPython module, it crashes on load. I get the same result (gives a 'bus error' message) if I copy the wxPython module into /Library/Python/2.3 and try to use /usr/bin/pythonw to run a wxPython script. This same wxPython module works fine with the Framework build of Python. I could well be misunderstanding something here, and if so please let me know, but there is something that is causing wxPython to fail with Apple's Python build. I simply thought a recompile would be the most likely way to resolve the issue. Thanks, Kevin From bob at redivi.com Sun Nov 2 17:20:14 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sun Nov 2 17:20:40 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues In-Reply-To: <0E8F83E8-0D7A-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> References: <93A41950-0CBE-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <20031101231550.GA40415@uiuc.edu> <4176DA6E-0CC2-11D8-844C-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <5F5B5C3A-0D5B-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <0A7B0813-0D69-11D8-BE4F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <67680AEC-0D6E-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <0E8F83E8-0D7A-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Message-ID: On Nov 2, 2003, at 4:18 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: > On Nov 2, 2003, at 12:11 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> >> On Nov 2, 2003, at 2:54 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: >> >>>> 2) it doesn't work w/o Jack's MacPython installed because you put >>>> #!/usr/local/bin/python in the bootstrap script >>> >>> Since wxPython is compiled with gcc 3.1, it wouldn't work without >>> MacPython anyways. ;-) I hope to have this issue resolved soon, but >>> in the meantime it needs to run from Jack's installation. >> >> That's not true, Python extensions do not use the C++ ABI. It works >> just fine on Panther if you use #!/usr/bin/env python. It doesn't >> matter which compiler you used, because it's only using C to link the >> two. > > True, but isn't that because the Python binary in the app bundle is > linked to the Python Framework? The hashbang script just sets a few > env variables and calls Contents/MacOS/python, which is linked to the > MacPython framework build. That's why even if you use #!/usr/bin/env > python, the installed status of packages tells whether or not the > package is installed in the Framework build, not if they are installed > in /Library/Python/2.3. > > I don't yet know the exact reason why wxPython is failing when run > from /usr/bin/python, but it is failing. If I use /usr/bin/python on > Panther instead to build the bundlebuilder app, and then copy in the > wxPython module, it crashes on load. I get the same result (gives a > 'bus error' message) if I copy the wxPython module into > /Library/Python/2.3 and try to use /usr/bin/pythonw to run a wxPython > script. This same wxPython module works fine with the Framework build > of Python. > > I could well be misunderstanding something here, and if so please let > me know, but there is something that is causing wxPython to fail with > Apple's Python build. I simply thought a recompile would be the most > likely way to resolve the issue. Here's a quick overview of what happens when it's launched wxPackageManager.app/Contents/MacOS/wxPackageManager is executed, it actually doesn't matter which Python version it is This bootstrap script locates the python executable inside the framework, and sets up the environment appropriately to run the wxPackageManager.py file with the in-framework python executable The bootstrap script then does os.execve, which replaces the current process with the found python interpreter process with the new environment. This is necessary in order to rewrite argv[0] to trick WindowServer/Foundation/AppKit into thinking that mainBundle is indeed wxPackageManager.app During the dyld phase of executing the python binary, it sees the following LC_LOAD_DYLIB or LC_PREBOUND_DYLIB commands: /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 63.0.0) /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/Python (compatibility version 2.3.0, current version 2.3.0) /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/ CoreServices (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 14.0.0) /System/Library/Frameworks/Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation (compatibility version 300.0.0, current version 462.6.0) On Panther, all of these are in the expected locations, except for /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework. This is ok, because dyld looks around. ~/Library/Framework, /System/Library/Frameworks, etc. It finds Python.framework version 2.3.0 at /System/Library/Frameworks, links to it, and executes properly. -- On a stock Panther system, *this works* -- If you have *two* installations of Python, namely Jack's and Apple's, you have problems! Instead of *NOT* finding /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework and defaulting to the expected /System/Library/Python.framework, it finds both! For example, all of the wxWindows extensions are linked against /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework .. so if you load it from a python interpreter that links to /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework -- then you have TWO Pythons inside your address space. Python *can not* do this. There are a few solutions to this, but none of them pretty.. 1) Just delete Jack's 2) Link everything against /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework -- in this case, you *must always* use /usr/bin/python if you have Panther, otherwise use /usr/local/bin/python on Jaguar. Since it won't find /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework, it will always find /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework (or ~/Library/Frameworks/..). 3) Provide two versions (just in the way they were linked) of every extension, at runtime determine which Python has been run (by examining the location or even better the mach-o header of sys.executable) and add only that the path that contains the modules compiled with that header to sys.path. This is why not understanding mach-o and dyld will bite you in the ass. This is why I wrote potool. Bundlebuilder and friends really need to rewrite the load commands, especially for standalone (i.e. rewrite the included python interpreter's load command and the Python.framework ID to @executable_path/../Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/Python and so on). -bob From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Sun Nov 2 17:51:51 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Sun Nov 2 17:51:56 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.3 for Panther - Second build In-Reply-To: <2789DDBD-0CC7-11D8-808F-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> References: <2789DDBD-0CC7-11D8-808F-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <25BDB692-0D87-11D8-981D-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> On 2-nov-03, at 0:57, Jack Jansen wrote: > Folks, > I've created a second build of MacPython 2.3 for Panther. I would like > y'all to check it out, as soon as I get some positive feedback I'll > announce it. You can download it from > . As various people pointed out the URL is wrong (as usual:-), it should be . > > There are two changes: > - The IDE crash that some people were experiencing has been fixed. In > addition, the IDE Scripts folder is now in > "~/Library/Python/IDE-Scripts" (where it should have been all along). > - It is now possible to install the full Python documentation. Until I > get some replies from people that it works it is in the experimental > PackMan database, > Power_Macintosh.plist>. > > If you've been having any other crucial problems with MacPython 2.3 > for Panther that you haven't told me about, and you think they should > be included: let me know quickly! > -- > Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack > If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma > Goldman > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From cclark at ziclix.com Sun Nov 2 19:03:08 2003 From: cclark at ziclix.com (chuck clark) Date: Sun Nov 2 22:01:54 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] bundlebuilder location in PyObjC example Message-ID: <20031103000308.GB2233@namche.sevenelephants.com> I'm just starting to work with PyObjC and I have to say I love the idea of it so far and having a blast with what I've played with so far. Yesterday I was working through the tutorial on the SF page. Everything went off without a hitch except for the location of bundlebuilder.py. According to the tutorial it should be at $PYLIB/site-packages/PyObjC. However on my system it is in the following directory: /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/plat-mac/ I'm new to the Mac and OS X so I just completed the framework install the other night with some help from Bob I. What I'm wondering now is have I messed up the install or does the tutorial need to be updated? cheers, chuck From kevino at tulane.edu Sun Nov 2 21:59:32 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Sun Nov 2 22:04:27 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues In-Reply-To: References: <93A41950-0CBE-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <20031101231550.GA40415@uiuc.edu> <4176DA6E-0CC2-11D8-844C-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <5F5B5C3A-0D5B-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <0A7B0813-0D69-11D8-BE4F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <67680AEC-0D6E-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <0E8F83E8-0D7A-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Message-ID: Hi Bob, Thank you very much! This of course does work as you say. So all that is really needed for a "Panther" build of wxPython is a rebuild of the installer package that puts wxPython in /System/Library instead of /Library. However, Jack and others, I think that there should be a note about this issue, because previously having both Apple python and MacPython installed wasn't a problem, and people may just assume it is still the case. In my case, I didn't do a clean install of Panther, and just didn't bother to remove Jack's Framework build, as I had no idea these sorts of problems would result from having both Pythons installed. I just thought they didn't know anything about each other. Also, the link on python.org points directly to the 10.2 installer - but doesn't say not to install it for Panther. (Considering Panther is so new, people are likely to think that a 10.3-only installer either doesn't exist yet or is not needed.) I think it may help others if there's a simple note that upgraders should remove Jack's framework, and also link to a 10.3 package on Python.org (or better yet a link to the MacPython download page). What do you guys think? I'm sending this message along to the wxPython-mac list too so that they can be aware that having both Pythons on 10.3 is a problem. Thanks again, Kevin On Nov 2, 2003, at 2:20 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > On Nov 2, 2003, at 4:18 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: > >> On Nov 2, 2003, at 12:11 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: >> >>> >>> On Nov 2, 2003, at 2:54 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: >>> >>>>> 2) it doesn't work w/o Jack's MacPython installed because you put >>>>> #!/usr/local/bin/python in the bootstrap script >>>> >>>> Since wxPython is compiled with gcc 3.1, it wouldn't work without >>>> MacPython anyways. ;-) I hope to have this issue resolved soon, but >>>> in the meantime it needs to run from Jack's installation. >>> >>> That's not true, Python extensions do not use the C++ ABI. It works >>> just fine on Panther if you use #!/usr/bin/env python. It doesn't >>> matter which compiler you used, because it's only using C to link >>> the two. >> >> True, but isn't that because the Python binary in the app bundle is >> linked to the Python Framework? The hashbang script just sets a few >> env variables and calls Contents/MacOS/python, which is linked to the >> MacPython framework build. That's why even if you use #!/usr/bin/env >> python, the installed status of packages tells whether or not the >> package is installed in the Framework build, not if they are >> installed in /Library/Python/2.3. >> >> I don't yet know the exact reason why wxPython is failing when run >> from /usr/bin/python, but it is failing. If I use /usr/bin/python on >> Panther instead to build the bundlebuilder app, and then copy in the >> wxPython module, it crashes on load. I get the same result (gives a >> 'bus error' message) if I copy the wxPython module into >> /Library/Python/2.3 and try to use /usr/bin/pythonw to run a wxPython >> script. This same wxPython module works fine with the Framework build >> of Python. >> >> I could well be misunderstanding something here, and if so please let >> me know, but there is something that is causing wxPython to fail with >> Apple's Python build. I simply thought a recompile would be the most >> likely way to resolve the issue. > > Here's a quick overview of what happens when it's launched > > wxPackageManager.app/Contents/MacOS/wxPackageManager is executed, it > actually doesn't matter which Python version it is > > This bootstrap script locates the python executable inside the > framework, and sets up the environment appropriately to run the > wxPackageManager.py file with the in-framework python executable > > The bootstrap script then does os.execve, which replaces the current > process with the found python interpreter process with the new > environment. This is necessary in order to rewrite argv[0] to trick > WindowServer/Foundation/AppKit into thinking that mainBundle is indeed > wxPackageManager.app > > During the dyld phase of executing the python binary, it sees the > following LC_LOAD_DYLIB or LC_PREBOUND_DYLIB commands: > /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, > current version 63.0.0) > /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/Python > (compatibility version 2.3.0, current version 2.3.0) > > /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/ > CoreServices (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 14.0.0) > > /System/Library/Frameworks/Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation > (compatibility version 300.0.0, current version 462.6.0) > > On Panther, all of these are in the expected locations, except for > /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework. This is ok, because dyld looks > around. ~/Library/Framework, /System/Library/Frameworks, etc. It > finds Python.framework version 2.3.0 at /System/Library/Frameworks, > links to it, and executes properly. > > -- On a stock Panther system, *this works* -- > > If you have *two* installations of Python, namely Jack's and Apple's, > you have problems! Instead of *NOT* finding > /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework and defaulting to the expected > /System/Library/Python.framework, it finds both! For example, all of > the wxWindows extensions are linked against > /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework .. so if you load it from a > python interpreter that links to > /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework -- then you have TWO > Pythons inside your address space. Python *can not* do this. There > are a few solutions to this, but none of them pretty.. > > 1) Just delete Jack's > 2) Link everything against /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework > -- in this case, you *must always* use /usr/bin/python if you have > Panther, otherwise use /usr/local/bin/python on Jaguar. Since it > won't find /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework, it will always > find /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework (or > ~/Library/Frameworks/..). > 3) Provide two versions (just in the way they were linked) of every > extension, at runtime determine which Python has been run (by > examining the location or even better the mach-o header of > sys.executable) and add only that the path that contains the modules > compiled with that header to sys.path. > > This is why not understanding mach-o and dyld will bite you in the > ass. This is why I wrote potool. Bundlebuilder and friends really > need to rewrite the load commands, especially for standalone (i.e. > rewrite the included python interpreter's load command and the > Python.framework ID to > @executable_path/../Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/Python > and so on). > > -bob > From bob at redivi.com Sun Nov 2 22:48:20 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sun Nov 2 22:48:45 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues In-Reply-To: References: <93A41950-0CBE-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <20031101231550.GA40415@uiuc.edu> <4176DA6E-0CC2-11D8-844C-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <5F5B5C3A-0D5B-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <0A7B0813-0D69-11D8-BE4F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <67680AEC-0D6E-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <0E8F83E8-0D7A-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Message-ID: <91373F95-0DB0-11D8-8BB0-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Kevin, Both Python installations will co-exist peacefully if and only if you don't mix and match extension modules between the two. You should technically only be using modules compiled for 10.3 Python with 10.3 Python, and the same guideline goes for 10.2 Python. Many people (including myself, sometimes) choose to ignore this guideline for convenience/laziness/ignorance/etc. It is technically possible to make modules work for either, but you have to really know what you're doing (i.e. rewrite the mach load commands with install_name_tool or the like), but it's better to just keep separate versions. Note also that bundlebuilder has a theoretical (but never really experienced, AFAIK) bug where even --standalone bundles may not work on certain systems due to these sorts of issues, I will work on fixing this. Theoretically, --standalone applications should have all the load commands to be based on @executable_path rather than /System/Library or /Library. This theoretical bug can also happen when Python installed to ~/Library (b/c the load commands will still point to /Library). It hasn't caused any problems yet, but I expect them to happen at some point if this isn't fixed. There are uninstallation instructions on Jack's MacPython page: http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/uninstall.html (from main page, left navigation, click "MacPython on OS X" then click "Uninstall MacPython"). You are right. The real solution is of course to recompile wxWindows and wxPython with Xcode's gcc and 10.3 Python. wxWindows users will want this recompile for gcc 3.3 anyways, because (big surprise) the C++ ABI changed. -bob On Nov 2, 2003, at 9:59 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: > Thank you very much! This of course does work as you say. So all that > is really needed for a "Panther" build of wxPython is a rebuild of the > installer package that puts wxPython in /System/Library instead of > /Library. > > However, Jack and others, I think that there should be a note about > this issue, because previously having both Apple python and MacPython > installed wasn't a problem, and people may just assume it is still the > case. In my case, I didn't do a clean install of Panther, and just > didn't bother to remove Jack's Framework build, as I had no idea these > sorts of problems would result from having both Pythons installed. I > just thought they didn't know anything about each other. Also, the > link on python.org points directly to the 10.2 installer - but > doesn't say not to install it for Panther. (Considering Panther is so > new, people are likely to think that a 10.3-only installer either > doesn't exist yet or is not needed.) I think it may help others if > there's a simple note that upgraders should remove Jack's framework, > and also link to a 10.3 package on Python.org (or better yet a link to > the MacPython download page). What do you guys think? > > I'm sending this message along to the wxPython-mac list too so that > they can be aware that having both Pythons on 10.3 is a problem. > > On Nov 2, 2003, at 2:20 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> On Nov 2, 2003, at 4:18 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: >> >>> On Nov 2, 2003, at 12:11 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 2, 2003, at 2:54 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: >>>> >>>>>> 2) it doesn't work w/o Jack's MacPython installed because you >>>>>> put #!/usr/local/bin/python in the bootstrap script >>>>> >>>>> Since wxPython is compiled with gcc 3.1, it wouldn't work without >>>>> MacPython anyways. ;-) I hope to have this issue resolved soon, >>>>> but in the meantime it needs to run from Jack's installation. >>>> >>>> That's not true, Python extensions do not use the C++ ABI. It >>>> works just fine on Panther if you use #!/usr/bin/env python. It >>>> doesn't matter which compiler you used, because it's only using C >>>> to link the two. >>> >>> True, but isn't that because the Python binary in the app bundle is >>> linked to the Python Framework? The hashbang script just sets a few >>> env variables and calls Contents/MacOS/python, which is linked to >>> the MacPython framework build. That's why even if you use >>> #!/usr/bin/env python, the installed status of packages tells >>> whether or not the package is installed in the Framework build, not >>> if they are installed in /Library/Python/2.3. >>> >>> I don't yet know the exact reason why wxPython is failing when run >>> from /usr/bin/python, but it is failing. If I use /usr/bin/python on >>> Panther instead to build the bundlebuilder app, and then copy in the >>> wxPython module, it crashes on load. I get the same result (gives a >>> 'bus error' message) if I copy the wxPython module into >>> /Library/Python/2.3 and try to use /usr/bin/pythonw to run a >>> wxPython script. This same wxPython module works fine with the >>> Framework build of Python. >>> >>> I could well be misunderstanding something here, and if so please >>> let me know, but there is something that is causing wxPython to fail >>> with Apple's Python build. I simply thought a recompile would be the >>> most likely way to resolve the issue. >> >> Here's a quick overview of what happens when it's launched >> >> wxPackageManager.app/Contents/MacOS/wxPackageManager is executed, it >> actually doesn't matter which Python version it is >> >> This bootstrap script locates the python executable inside the >> framework, and sets up the environment appropriately to run the >> wxPackageManager.py file with the in-framework python executable >> >> The bootstrap script then does os.execve, which replaces the current >> process with the found python interpreter process with the new >> environment. This is necessary in order to rewrite argv[0] to trick >> WindowServer/Foundation/AppKit into thinking that mainBundle is >> indeed wxPackageManager.app >> >> During the dyld phase of executing the python binary, it sees the >> following LC_LOAD_DYLIB or LC_PREBOUND_DYLIB commands: >> /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, >> current version 63.0.0) >> /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/Python >> (compatibility version 2.3.0, current version 2.3.0) >> >> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/ >> CoreServices (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 14.0.0) >> >> /System/Library/Frameworks/Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation >> (compatibility version 300.0.0, current version 462.6.0) >> >> On Panther, all of these are in the expected locations, except for >> /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework. This is ok, because dyld looks >> around. ~/Library/Framework, /System/Library/Frameworks, etc. It >> finds Python.framework version 2.3.0 at /System/Library/Frameworks, >> links to it, and executes properly. >> >> -- On a stock Panther system, *this works* -- >> >> If you have *two* installations of Python, namely Jack's and Apple's, >> you have problems! Instead of *NOT* finding >> /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework and defaulting to the expected >> /System/Library/Python.framework, it finds both! For example, all of >> the wxWindows extensions are linked against >> /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework .. so if you load it from a >> python interpreter that links to >> /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework -- then you have TWO >> Pythons inside your address space. Python *can not* do this. There >> are a few solutions to this, but none of them pretty.. >> >> 1) Just delete Jack's >> 2) Link everything against >> /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework -- in this case, you >> *must always* use /usr/bin/python if you have Panther, otherwise use >> /usr/local/bin/python on Jaguar. Since it won't find >> /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework, it will always find >> /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework (or ~/Library/Frameworks/..). >> 3) Provide two versions (just in the way they were linked) of every >> extension, at runtime determine which Python has been run (by >> examining the location or even better the mach-o header of >> sys.executable) and add only that the path that contains the modules >> compiled with that header to sys.path. >> >> This is why not understanding mach-o and dyld will bite you in the >> ass. This is why I wrote potool. Bundlebuilder and friends really >> need to rewrite the load commands, especially for standalone (i.e. >> rewrite the included python interpreter's load command and the >> Python.framework ID to >> @executable_path/../Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/Python >> and so on). From bob at redivi.com Sun Nov 2 22:51:16 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sun Nov 2 22:51:35 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] bundlebuilder location in PyObjC example In-Reply-To: <20031103000308.GB2233@namche.sevenelephants.com> References: <20031103000308.GB2233@namche.sevenelephants.com> Message-ID: On Nov 2, 2003, at 7:03 PM, chuck clark wrote: > I'm just starting to work with PyObjC and I have to say I love the > idea of > it so far and having a blast with what I've played with so far. > > Yesterday I was working through the tutorial on the SF page. > Everything > went off without a hitch except for the location of bundlebuilder.py. > According to the tutorial it should be at $PYLIB/site-packages/PyObjC. > However on my system it is in the following directory: > /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ > python2.3/plat-mac/ > > I'm new to the Mac and OS X so I just completed the framework install > the > other night with some help from Bob I. What I'm wondering now is have > I > messed up the install or does the tutorial need to be updated? Yes and no. On Python 2.2 installations, bundlebuilder is indeed inside the PyObjC package. Otherwise, it is included with Python 2.3. Basically, unless you're using 2.2 for some reason (Dinu, why?!), you want to use the plat-mac version. -bob From tdeprato at fuse.net Mon Nov 3 06:06:52 2003 From: tdeprato at fuse.net (Tony DePrato) Date: Mon Nov 3 06:07:14 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] exploring Message-ID: <000601c3a1fa$96776990$0e01a8c0@laptop> I have been a Lingo and web programmer for a few years. My friend has recently turned me onto Python. I am really wanting to get into a new programming environment where I can create applications for Intranets and the internet. What I want to know is if I write or develop Python Programs on a Mac then can I distribute those programs Cross platform? For example if I make an app. On a Mac which runs in IE (I guess like a Java Applet ) then Will that application run on windows and mac IE ? I am just reading about Python so I am very ignorant. If anyone has any samples of work they have done I would enjoy looking at them . I do not want to be stuck in .ASP / .Net land where everything is for windows and windows servers, but at the same time I have no interest in writing in something as wordy and complicated as Java. So my friend said Python might be a good match. Tony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031103/465a2913/attachment.html From mwh at python.net Mon Nov 3 06:46:28 2003 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Mon Nov 3 06:46:42 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: PIL 1.1.4 breaks Python 2.3 on Mac OS X 10.3 Panther In-Reply-To: <03Oct31.171651pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> (Bill Janssen's message of "Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:16:50 PST") References: <03Oct31.171651pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> Message-ID: <2mn0bd65ez.fsf@starship.python.net> Bill Janssen writes: >> If you link a python module using 'Python.framework/Versions/2.3/Python', it >> means that the Python framework is going to be searched inside (in order): >> >> ~/Library >> /Library >> /System/Library >> > > What does "searched inside" mean? What could it mean? The dynamic linker is looking for a "Python.framework/Versions/2.3/Python" to satisfy some symbol dependencies, and those are the folders it's going to look inside, in order (that's just the way Mac OS X is). > What is "the Python framework"? A framework (in this context) on Mac OS X is a bit like a good ol' unix dynamic shared object, except that it's really a folder that contains the good ol' unix dynamic shared object and some other stuff (e.g. headers). The Python framework is, well, sorta like libpython2.3.a on unix (except a shared object). > Who is linking this module using > 'Python.framework/Versions/2.3/Python' (and how do I make them stop :-?). Now this I don't know... Cheers, mwh -- MGM will not get your whites whiter or your colors brighter. It will, however, sit there and look spiffy while sucking down a major honking wad of RAM. -- http://www.xiph.org/mgm/ From dgoodwin at caltech.edu Mon Nov 3 10:17:14 2003 From: dgoodwin at caltech.edu (David Goodwin) Date: Mon Nov 3 10:17:19 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] problems with MacPython-Panther-2.3-2 Message-ID: I have installed the second build of MacPython-Panther-2.3, but am having problems. The PythonIDE works, but both IDLE and the PackageManager fail. If I run the script in the IDLE package from the command line, the error message is Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?) Could someone please tell me where the problem is? I'm using Python that comes with Panther - should I download and build Python 2.3 from the source? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks very much. Dave Goodwin From bob at redivi.com Mon Nov 3 10:29:15 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Mon Nov 3 10:29:34 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] problems with MacPython-Panther-2.3-2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7B863358-0E12-11D8-8A46-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 10:17 AM, David Goodwin wrote: > I have installed the second build of MacPython-Panther-2.3, but am > having problems. The PythonIDE works, but both IDLE and the > PackageManager fail. If I run the script in the IDLE package from the > command line, the error message is > > Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?) > > Could someone please tell me where the problem is? I'm using Python > that comes with Panther - should I download and build Python 2.3 from > the source? > Any help would be appreciated. Thanks very much. No, there's no need to install and build your own Python 2.3. That crash sounds hardly possible on a stock Panther machine. Is this an installation of Panther over top an installation of Jaguar? Try installing the extras again, but first follow these instructions: http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/uninstall.html -bob From oussoren at cistron.nl Mon Nov 3 10:31:46 2003 From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Mon Nov 3 10:31:52 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] problems with MacPython-Panther-2.3-2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 3 nov 2003, at 16:17, David Goodwin wrote: > I have installed the second build of MacPython-Panther-2.3, but am > having problems. The PythonIDE works, but both IDLE and the > PackageManager fail. If I run the script in the IDLE package from the > command line, the error message is > > Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?) Do you have MacPython for Jaguar installed? There seems to be a problem with some extension modules if MacPython for Jaguar is installed on a Panther system, see the thread about wxPython on Panther for more information. Ronald From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Mon Nov 3 10:57:37 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Mon Nov 3 10:57:35 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] problems with MacPython-Panther-2.3-2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <72590B62-0E16-11D8-A2A3-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> On 3 Nov 2003, at 16:17, David Goodwin wrote: > I have installed the second build of MacPython-Panther-2.3, but am > having problems. The PythonIDE works, but both IDLE and the > PackageManager fail. If I run the script in the IDLE package from the > command line, the error message is > > Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?) This means you probably still have your old Jaguar-MacPython installed in /Library. Moreover, somehow an extension module that is linked against that Python is packed up by IDLE and PackageManager, but not by PythonIDE. My guess is that this is _tkinter (which is used by IDLE, and which PackageManager imports to test its existence). There is a design problem with per-user installs of packages through package manager: this per-user directory is shared between Apple-supplied MacPython (from /System) and user-installed MacPython (from /Library), but the packages in there only work for one or the other, really. -- Jack Jansen http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From fonnesbeck at mac.com Mon Nov 3 11:08:12 2003 From: fonnesbeck at mac.com (Christopher Fonnesbeck) Date: Mon Nov 3 11:08:16 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] syntax highlighting in PythonIDE Message-ID: A quick question: How does one turn on syntax highlighting in PythonIDE? I'm sure its there somewhere if it is truly an IDE, but I cannot seem to find the switch. Thanks, C. -- Christopher J. Fonnesbeck ( c h r i s @ f o n n e s b e c k . o r g ) Georgia Cooperative Fish & Wildlife Research Unit, University of Georgia From dgoodwin at caltech.edu Mon Nov 3 12:05:45 2003 From: dgoodwin at caltech.edu (David Goodwin) Date: Mon Nov 3 12:05:55 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] problem solved Message-ID: Jack, Bob, and Ronald, Thanks very much for the quick response. As you suspected, I had upgraded to Panther over Jaguar and had not removed the old MacPython. When I did so and then re-installed MacPython, the problems went away. As a suggestion, it might be worth adding a warning message in the README file telling users to first uninstall their old MacPython, if any, before proceeding. Thanks again for the help. Dave Goodwin From just at letterror.com Mon Nov 3 12:16:52 2003 From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum) Date: Mon Nov 3 12:16:39 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] syntax highlighting in PythonIDE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Christopher Fonnesbeck wrote: > A quick question: > > How does one turn on syntax highlighting in PythonIDE? I'm sure its > there somewhere if it is truly an IDE, but I cannot seem to find the > switch. Look for Wtext.py, and replace self.do_fontify = 0 with self.do_fontify = True It's turned off by default since it's pretty crappy... There's a secret shortcut to recolorize the entire window: cmd-shift-d. Just From kevino at tulane.edu Mon Nov 3 13:32:54 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Mon Nov 3 13:38:05 2003 Subject: [wxPython-mac] Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues In-Reply-To: <91373F95-0DB0-11D8-8BB0-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <93A41950-0CBE-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <20031101231550.GA40415@uiuc.edu> <4176DA6E-0CC2-11D8-844C-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <5F5B5C3A-0D5B-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <0A7B0813-0D69-11D8-BE4F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <67680AEC-0D6E-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <0E8F83E8-0D7A-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <91373F95-0DB0-11D8-8BB0-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <23B7D79C-0E2C-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Hi Bob, Thanks again! I'm working on producing a package for Panther and will let both groups know when it is available. =) Thanks, Kevin On Nov 2, 2003, at 7:48 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > Kevin, > > Both Python installations will co-exist peacefully if and only if you > don't mix and match extension modules between the two. You should > technically only be using modules compiled for 10.3 Python with 10.3 > Python, and the same guideline goes for 10.2 Python. Many people > (including myself, sometimes) choose to ignore this guideline for > convenience/laziness/ignorance/etc. It is technically possible to > make modules work for either, but you have to really know what you're > doing (i.e. rewrite the mach load commands with install_name_tool or > the like), but it's better to just keep separate versions. > > Note also that bundlebuilder has a theoretical (but never really > experienced, AFAIK) bug where even --standalone bundles may not work > on certain systems due to these sorts of issues, I will work on fixing > this. Theoretically, --standalone applications should have all the > load commands to be based on @executable_path rather than > /System/Library or /Library. This theoretical bug can also happen > when Python installed to ~/Library (b/c the load commands will still > point to /Library). It hasn't caused any problems yet, but I expect > them to happen at some point if this isn't fixed. > > There are uninstallation instructions on Jack's MacPython page: > http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/uninstall.html (from main > page, left navigation, click "MacPython on OS X" then click "Uninstall > MacPython"). > > You are right. The real solution is of course to recompile wxWindows > and wxPython with Xcode's gcc and 10.3 Python. wxWindows users will > want this recompile for gcc 3.3 anyways, because (big surprise) the > C++ ABI changed. > > -bob > > On Nov 2, 2003, at 9:59 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: > >> Thank you very much! This of course does work as you say. So all that >> is really needed for a "Panther" build of wxPython is a rebuild of >> the installer package that puts wxPython in /System/Library instead >> of /Library. >> >> However, Jack and others, I think that there should be a note about >> this issue, because previously having both Apple python and MacPython >> installed wasn't a problem, and people may just assume it is still >> the case. In my case, I didn't do a clean install of Panther, and >> just didn't bother to remove Jack's Framework build, as I had no idea >> these sorts of problems would result from having both Pythons >> installed. I just thought they didn't know anything about each other. >> Also, the link on python.org points directly to the 10.2 installer - >> but doesn't say not to install it for Panther. (Considering Panther >> is so new, people are likely to think that a 10.3-only installer >> either doesn't exist yet or is not needed.) I think it may help >> others if there's a simple note that upgraders should remove Jack's >> framework, and also link to a 10.3 package on Python.org (or better >> yet a link to the MacPython download page). What do you guys think? >> >> I'm sending this message along to the wxPython-mac list too so that >> they can be aware that having both Pythons on 10.3 is a problem. >> >> On Nov 2, 2003, at 2:20 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: >> >>> On Nov 2, 2003, at 4:18 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: >>> >>>> On Nov 2, 2003, at 12:11 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Nov 2, 2003, at 2:54 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> 2) it doesn't work w/o Jack's MacPython installed because you >>>>>>> put #!/usr/local/bin/python in the bootstrap script >>>>>> >>>>>> Since wxPython is compiled with gcc 3.1, it wouldn't work without >>>>>> MacPython anyways. ;-) I hope to have this issue resolved soon, >>>>>> but in the meantime it needs to run from Jack's installation. >>>>> >>>>> That's not true, Python extensions do not use the C++ ABI. It >>>>> works just fine on Panther if you use #!/usr/bin/env python. It >>>>> doesn't matter which compiler you used, because it's only using C >>>>> to link the two. >>>> >>>> True, but isn't that because the Python binary in the app bundle is >>>> linked to the Python Framework? The hashbang script just sets a few >>>> env variables and calls Contents/MacOS/python, which is linked to >>>> the MacPython framework build. That's why even if you use >>>> #!/usr/bin/env python, the installed status of packages tells >>>> whether or not the package is installed in the Framework build, not >>>> if they are installed in /Library/Python/2.3. >>>> >>>> I don't yet know the exact reason why wxPython is failing when run >>>> from /usr/bin/python, but it is failing. If I use /usr/bin/python >>>> on Panther instead to build the bundlebuilder app, and then copy in >>>> the wxPython module, it crashes on load. I get the same result >>>> (gives a 'bus error' message) if I copy the wxPython module into >>>> /Library/Python/2.3 and try to use /usr/bin/pythonw to run a >>>> wxPython script. This same wxPython module works fine with the >>>> Framework build of Python. >>>> >>>> I could well be misunderstanding something here, and if so please >>>> let me know, but there is something that is causing wxPython to >>>> fail with Apple's Python build. I simply thought a recompile would >>>> be the most likely way to resolve the issue. >>> >>> Here's a quick overview of what happens when it's launched >>> >>> wxPackageManager.app/Contents/MacOS/wxPackageManager is executed, it >>> actually doesn't matter which Python version it is >>> >>> This bootstrap script locates the python executable inside the >>> framework, and sets up the environment appropriately to run the >>> wxPackageManager.py file with the in-framework python executable >>> >>> The bootstrap script then does os.execve, which replaces the current >>> process with the found python interpreter process with the new >>> environment. This is necessary in order to rewrite argv[0] to trick >>> WindowServer/Foundation/AppKit into thinking that mainBundle is >>> indeed wxPackageManager.app >>> >>> During the dyld phase of executing the python binary, it sees the >>> following LC_LOAD_DYLIB or LC_PREBOUND_DYLIB commands: >>> /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, >>> current version 63.0.0) >>> /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/Python >>> (compatibility version 2.3.0, current version 2.3.0) >>> >>> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/ >>> CoreServices (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 14.0.0) >>> >>> /System/Library/Frameworks/Foundation.framework/Versions/C/ >>> Foundation (compatibility version 300.0.0, current version 462.6.0) >>> >>> On Panther, all of these are in the expected locations, except for >>> /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework. This is ok, because dyld >>> looks around. ~/Library/Framework, /System/Library/Frameworks, etc. >>> It finds Python.framework version 2.3.0 at >>> /System/Library/Frameworks, links to it, and executes properly. >>> >>> -- On a stock Panther system, *this works* -- >>> >>> If you have *two* installations of Python, namely Jack's and >>> Apple's, you have problems! Instead of *NOT* finding >>> /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework and defaulting to the expected >>> /System/Library/Python.framework, it finds both! For example, all >>> of the wxWindows extensions are linked against >>> /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework .. so if you load it from a >>> python interpreter that links to >>> /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework -- then you have TWO >>> Pythons inside your address space. Python *can not* do this. There >>> are a few solutions to this, but none of them pretty.. >>> >>> 1) Just delete Jack's >>> 2) Link everything against >>> /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework -- in this case, you >>> *must always* use /usr/bin/python if you have Panther, otherwise use >>> /usr/local/bin/python on Jaguar. Since it won't find >>> /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework, it will always find >>> /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework (or ~/Library/Frameworks/..). >>> 3) Provide two versions (just in the way they were linked) of every >>> extension, at runtime determine which Python has been run (by >>> examining the location or even better the mach-o header of >>> sys.executable) and add only that the path that contains the modules >>> compiled with that header to sys.path. >>> >>> This is why not understanding mach-o and dyld will bite you in the >>> ass. This is why I wrote potool. Bundlebuilder and friends really >>> need to rewrite the load commands, especially for standalone (i.e. >>> rewrite the included python interpreter's load command and the >>> Python.framework ID to >>> @executable_path/../Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/Python >>> and so on). > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: wxPython-mac-unsubscribe@lists.wxwindows.org > For additional commands, e-mail: wxPython-mac-help@lists.wxwindows.org > From rowen at cesmail.net Mon Nov 3 14:00:55 2003 From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen) Date: Mon Nov 3 13:57:18 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: MacPython 2.3 for Panther - Second build References: <2789DDBD-0CC7-11D8-808F-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: At risk of sounding ungrateful and a bit off-topic, what's the plan for Python 2.3.1 or 2.3.2 (I can't tell if the 2.3.2 fixes matter, but some of the 2.3.1 fixes do look relevant to the Mac)? I recall seeing a note that the Mac 2.3.1 needed a bit of tweaking to build properly, so I've not personally tried to build it from source. 2.3 is working, but the file-related memory leak is a bit worrisome. Personally I'm still back at Jaguar, but hope to transition soon (once I'm convinced the FW drive problem is handled). -- Russell In article <2789DDBD-0CC7-11D8-808F-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl>, Jack Jansen wrote: > Folks, > I've created a second build of MacPython 2.3 for Panther. I would like > y'all to check it out, as soon as I get some positive feedback I'll > announce it. You can download it from > . ... From janssen at parc.com Mon Nov 3 14:39:25 2003 From: janssen at parc.com (Bill Janssen) Date: Mon Nov 3 14:39:50 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: PIL 1.1.4 breaks Python 2.3 on Mac OS X 10.3 Panther In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 01 Nov 2003 16:19:29 PST." <396842B2-0CCA-11D8-808F-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <03Nov3.113929pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> > The interesting bit of information would be the link step that setup.py > used > to link _imaging.so. Could you rebuild it, and send us that line? gcc -Wl,-F. -Wl,-F. -bundle -framework Python \ build/temp.darwin-7.0.0-Power_Macintosh-2.3/_imaging.o \ build/temp.darwin-7.0.0-Power_Macintosh-2.3/decode.o \ build/temp.darwin-7.0.0-Power_Macintosh-2.3/encode.o \ build/temp.darwin-7.0.0-Power_Macintosh-2.3/map.o \ build/temp.darwin-7.0.0-Power_Macintosh-2.3/display.o \ build/temp.darwin-7.0.0-Power_Macintosh-2.3/outline.o \ build/temp.darwin-7.0.0-Power_Macintosh-2.3/path.o -LlibImaging \ -L/sw/lib -lImaging -lz -o \ build/lib.darwin-7.0.0-Power_Macintosh-2.3/_imaging.so You can find the whole build at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/2003-October/009233.html. > Something else: there isn't by accident a file or symlink or whatever > called "Python.framework" in the directory where you build PIL? No. Bill From janssen at parc.com Mon Nov 3 15:10:29 2003 From: janssen at parc.com (Bill Janssen) Date: Mon Nov 3 15:10:44 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] problems with MacPython-Panther-2.3-2 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:57:37 PST." <72590B62-0E16-11D8-A2A3-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <03Nov3.121029pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> > This means you probably still have your old Jaguar-MacPython installed > in /Library. Moreover, somehow an extension module that is linked > against that Python is packed up by IDLE and PackageManager, but not by > PythonIDE. OK, this is all becoming clearer. Next question: How do I uninstall the old Jaguar-MacPython cleanly? Just remove any folder called Python under /Library? Bill From joshua at joshuatompkins.us Mon Nov 3 15:16:08 2003 From: joshua at joshuatompkins.us (Joshua Tompkins) Date: Mon Nov 3 15:16:20 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan Fails to Install on Panther? Message-ID: <3FA6B788.4070401@joshuatompkins.us> Hi, all. I'm running Python 2.3 on a stock install of Panther (I erased the drive and did a clean install), using Jack's second build of Python. If it matters, my computer is a Dual-USB iBook 600 with 384 megs of RAM. When I run PackMan, I can install things from the official list without any problems. If I try to install anything from Bob's unofficial list, though, I run into some problems. No matter what I try to install, I get a beach ball, then, a moment later, the interface is usable again, but the package doesn't install. PackMan gives a status "no module X" message. Is this a Panther issue, or a PackMan issue, or am I just doing something wrong? -joshua From mwh at python.net Mon Nov 3 15:17:30 2003 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Mon Nov 3 15:17:33 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] problems with MacPython-Panther-2.3-2 In-Reply-To: <03Nov3.121029pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> (Bill Janssen's message of "Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:10:29 PST") References: <03Nov3.121029pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> Message-ID: <2mekwp436t.fsf@starship.python.net> Bill Janssen writes: >> This means you probably still have your old Jaguar-MacPython installed >> in /Library. Moreover, somehow an extension module that is linked >> against that Python is packed up by IDLE and PackageManager, but not by >> PythonIDE. > > OK, this is all becoming clearer. Next question: How do I uninstall > the old Jaguar-MacPython cleanly? Just remove any folder called Python > under /Library? rm -rf /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/ rm -rf /Applications/MacPython-$(VERSION)/ should do it. This will break a few symlinks in /usr/local/bin which you probably want to toss too. Cheers, mwh -- There are two kinds of large software systems: those that evolved from small systems and those that don't work. -- Seen on slashdot.org, then quoted by amk From joshua at joshuatompkins.us Mon Nov 3 15:19:48 2003 From: joshua at joshuatompkins.us (Joshua Tompkins) Date: Mon Nov 3 15:19:51 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Path Issues Message-ID: <3FA6B864.20502@joshuatompkins.us> Hi again. I've got a quick newbie question. Whenever I try to open a file in python, I get a "no such file or directory traceback". However, if I move the file to my / directory, python finds the file without problems. What am I doing wrong? For example, if I try to open a file in ~/source/python/, I get an error. That directory shows up when I import sys.path. I set my path in my .bash_profile file, however, I'm using python from the command line so that shouldn't make a difference, right? Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated, this is probably some goof ball mistake but I'm not sure how to fix it. -joshua From bob at redivi.com Mon Nov 3 15:20:13 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Mon Nov 3 15:20:34 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan Fails to Install on Panther? In-Reply-To: <3FA6B788.4070401@joshuatompkins.us> References: <3FA6B788.4070401@joshuatompkins.us> Message-ID: <212FD9C1-0E3B-11D8-BBD5-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:16 PM, Joshua Tompkins wrote: > I'm running Python 2.3 on a stock install of Panther (I erased the > drive and did a clean install), using Jack's second build of Python. > If it matters, my computer is a Dual-USB iBook 600 with 384 megs of > RAM. > > When I run PackMan, I can install things from the official list > without any problems. If I try to install anything from Bob's > unofficial list, though, I run into some problems. No matter what I > try to install, I get a beach ball, then, a moment later, the > interface is usable again, but the package doesn't install. PackMan > gives a status "no module X" message. Is this a Panther issue, or a > PackMan issue, or am I just doing something wrong? My unofficial list isn't built for Panther yet. It's a Jaguar list and it puts things in the Jaguar places. Recompiling all these for Panther is on my list. -bob From mwh at python.net Mon Nov 3 15:24:53 2003 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Mon Nov 3 15:24:58 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Path Issues In-Reply-To: <3FA6B864.20502@joshuatompkins.us> (Joshua Tompkins's message of "Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:19:48 -0500") References: <3FA6B864.20502@joshuatompkins.us> Message-ID: <2mad7d42ui.fsf@starship.python.net> Joshua Tompkins writes: > Hi again. > > I've got a quick newbie question. Whenever I try to open a file in > python, I get a "no such file or directory traceback". open as in the builtin open() function? > However, if I move the file to my / directory, python finds the > file without problems. What am I doing wrong? > > For example, if I try to open a file in ~/source/python/, I get an > error. That directory shows up when I import sys.path. sys.path has nothing to do with the builtin open() function. Cheers, mwh -- I also fondly recall Paris because that's where I learned to debug Zetalisp while drunk. -- Olin Shivers From joshua at joshuatompkins.us Mon Nov 3 15:25:52 2003 From: joshua at joshuatompkins.us (Joshua Tompkins) Date: Mon Nov 3 15:25:56 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan Fails to Install on Panther? In-Reply-To: <212FD9C1-0E3B-11D8-BBD5-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <3FA6B788.4070401@joshuatompkins.us> <212FD9C1-0E3B-11D8-BBD5-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <3FA6B9D0.4070904@joshuatompkins.us> Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:16 PM, Joshua Tompkins wrote: > >> I'm running Python 2.3 on a stock install of Panther (I erased the >> drive and did a clean install), using Jack's second build of Python. >> If it matters, my computer is a Dual-USB iBook 600 with 384 megs of RAM. >> >> When I run PackMan, I can install things from the official list >> without any problems. If I try to install anything from Bob's >> unofficial list, though, I run into some problems. No matter what I >> try to install, I get a beach ball, then, a moment later, the >> interface is usable again, but the package doesn't install. PackMan >> gives a status "no module X" message. Is this a Panther issue, or a >> PackMan issue, or am I just doing something wrong? > > > My unofficial list isn't built for Panther yet. It's a Jaguar list > and it puts things in the Jaguar places. Recompiling all these for > Panther is on my list. > > -bob > > Wow, that was quick! Thanks for the update, I'll keep that in mind for next time. Since it puts things in the wrong places, did the install just fail, or do I need to go hard drive spelunking to find files that are in the wrong spots? -joshua From joshua at joshuatompkins.us Mon Nov 3 15:28:12 2003 From: joshua at joshuatompkins.us (Joshua Tompkins) Date: Mon Nov 3 15:28:16 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Path Issues Message-ID: <3FA6BA5C.2050203@joshuatompkins.us> Yes, I'm using the open() builtin function. -joshua From bob at redivi.com Mon Nov 3 15:37:18 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Mon Nov 3 15:37:38 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan Fails to Install on Panther? In-Reply-To: <3FA6B9D0.4070904@joshuatompkins.us> References: <3FA6B788.4070401@joshuatompkins.us> <212FD9C1-0E3B-11D8-BBD5-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <3FA6B9D0.4070904@joshuatompkins.us> Message-ID: <8460FEAE-0E3D-11D8-BBD5-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:25 PM, Joshua Tompkins wrote: > Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> >> On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:16 PM, Joshua Tompkins wrote: >> >>> I'm running Python 2.3 on a stock install of Panther (I erased the >>> drive and did a clean install), using Jack's second build of Python. >>> If it matters, my computer is a Dual-USB iBook 600 with 384 megs of >>> RAM. >>> >>> When I run PackMan, I can install things from the official list >>> without any problems. If I try to install anything from Bob's >>> unofficial list, though, I run into some problems. No matter what I >>> try to install, I get a beach ball, then, a moment later, the >>> interface is usable again, but the package doesn't install. PackMan >>> gives a status "no module X" message. Is this a Panther issue, or a >>> PackMan issue, or am I just doing something wrong? >> >> >> My unofficial list isn't built for Panther yet. It's a Jaguar list >> and it puts things in the Jaguar places. Recompiling all these for >> Panther is on my list. >> > Thanks for the update, I'll keep that in mind for next time. Since it > puts things in the wrong places, did the install just fail, or do I > need to go hard drive spelunking to find files that are in the wrong > spots? Since you do have a stock panther machine without another copy of Python 2.3, technically you can use these modules. They got installed to /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site- packages/ just move them into your /Library/Python/2.3/ folder .. if you're doing a lot of these, you probably want to just make that site-packages a symlink to /Library/Python/2.3/ A "home" or "user" installation would probably put them in place where Panther python would find it. But again, be warned, these modules are all compiled for Jaguar python and may cause trouble if you include them with a bundlebuilder --semi-standalone or --standalone for people who have both framework pythons installed, and they will stop working if you end up installing the 10.2 version of MacPython 2.3. -bob From loredo at astro.cornell.edu Mon Nov 3 15:38:28 2003 From: loredo at astro.cornell.edu (Tom Loredo) Date: Mon Nov 3 15:38:33 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Scrolling problem with PythonIDE Message-ID: <200311032038.hA3KcSD24803@laplace.astro.cornell.edu> Hi folks- This seems to be my week for scrolling problems! When I use the MacPython2.3 IDE (on 10.2.6), if a window contains a lot of content and I clicke above or below the scrollbar bubble to move the view one page up or down, it always moves at least 2 pages. It doesn't matter how quickly I tap the mouse; it always acts as if it is receiving two clicks. No other app has this difficulty, so I doubt it's a hardware or driver problem (I'm just using Apple's own mouse). Is this perhaps a known TclTkAqua bug? I can move the window up or down as needed by clicking on the scrollbar arrows or dragging the indicator, but I frequently work interactively, dumping a lot of output (from numerical calculations) in the Output window, and clicking above the scroll indicator is definitely the most efficient way to move around for me much of the time. Thanks, Tom From bob at redivi.com Mon Nov 3 15:41:39 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Mon Nov 3 15:41:56 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Path Issues In-Reply-To: <3FA6BA5C.2050203@joshuatompkins.us> References: <3FA6BA5C.2050203@joshuatompkins.us> Message-ID: <1FFD1E33-0E3E-11D8-BBD5-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:28 PM, Joshua Tompkins wrote: > Yes, I'm using the open() builtin function. Are you using it from an application bundle? an app opened via LaunchServices (Finder, the open command) will have a getcwd() of / when it starts. Try "print os.getcwd()" to see where the cwd is. -bob From joshua at joshuatompkins.us Mon Nov 3 15:44:05 2003 From: joshua at joshuatompkins.us (Joshua Tompkins) Date: Mon Nov 3 15:44:08 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Path Issues In-Reply-To: <1FFD1E33-0E3E-11D8-BBD5-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <3FA6BA5C.2050203@joshuatompkins.us> <1FFD1E33-0E3E-11D8-BBD5-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <3FA6BE15.2080803@joshuatompkins.us> Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:28 PM, Joshua Tompkins wrote: > >> Yes, I'm using the open() builtin function. > > > Are you using it from an application bundle? an app opened via > LaunchServices (Finder, the open command) will have a getcwd() of / > when it starts. Try "print os.getcwd()" to see where the cwd is. > > -bob > > I'm running Python by typing "python" from the Terminal. os.getcwd() returns "/Users/joshua" (with that capitalization). -joshua From bob at redivi.com Mon Nov 3 15:51:34 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Mon Nov 3 15:51:53 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Path Issues In-Reply-To: <3FA6BE15.2080803@joshuatompkins.us> References: <3FA6BA5C.2050203@joshuatompkins.us> <1FFD1E33-0E3E-11D8-BBD5-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <3FA6BE15.2080803@joshuatompkins.us> Message-ID: <82C93F96-0E3F-11D8-BBD5-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:44 PM, Joshua Tompkins wrote: > Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> >> On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:28 PM, Joshua Tompkins wrote: >> >>> Yes, I'm using the open() builtin function. >> >> >> Are you using it from an application bundle? an app opened via >> LaunchServices (Finder, the open command) will have a getcwd() of / >> when it starts. Try "print os.getcwd()" to see where the cwd is. >> >> -bob >> >> > I'm running Python by typing "python" from the Terminal. > > os.getcwd() returns "/Users/joshua" (with that capitalization). What is the line of code that you're trying? open("~/source/python/file") does not work you need to do open(os.path.expanduser("~/source/python/file")) if you want to use tilde expansion. -bob From joshua at joshuatompkins.us Mon Nov 3 15:55:29 2003 From: joshua at joshuatompkins.us (Joshua Tompkins) Date: Mon Nov 3 15:55:33 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Path Issues In-Reply-To: <82C93F96-0E3F-11D8-BBD5-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <3FA6BA5C.2050203@joshuatompkins.us> <1FFD1E33-0E3E-11D8-BBD5-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <3FA6BE15.2080803@joshuatompkins.us> <82C93F96-0E3F-11D8-BBD5-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <3FA6C0C1.3050307@joshuatompkins.us> Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:44 PM, Joshua Tompkins wrote: > >> Bob Ippolito wrote: >> >>> >>> On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:28 PM, Joshua Tompkins wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, I'm using the open() builtin function. >>> >>> >>> >>> Are you using it from an application bundle? an app opened via >>> LaunchServices (Finder, the open command) will have a getcwd() of / >>> when it starts. Try "print os.getcwd()" to see where the cwd is. >>> >>> -bob >>> >>> >> I'm running Python by typing "python" from the Terminal. >> >> os.getcwd() returns "/Users/joshua" (with that capitalization). > > > What is the line of code that you're trying? > > open("~/source/python/file") does not work > > you need to do > > open(os.path.expanduser("~/source/python/file")) > > if you want to use tilde expansion. > > -bob > > Wow, that works. Duh. Should have figured that one out on my own. Anyway, thanks for your help, since I probably *wouldn't* have ever thought about that. Maybe it's time for another jaunt through the library reference. -joshua From stuart.b at commonground.com.au Mon Nov 3 22:01:22 2003 From: stuart.b at commonground.com.au (Stuart Bishop) Date: Mon Nov 3 22:01:46 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] problems with MacPython-Panther-2.3-2 In-Reply-To: <72590B62-0E16-11D8-A2A3-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> References: <72590B62-0E16-11D8-A2A3-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <2B9E20D6-0E73-11D8-8E4D-000A95A06FC6@commonground.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 04/11/2003, at 2:57 AM, Jack Jansen wrote: > My guess is that this is _tkinter (which is used by IDLE, and which > PackageManager imports to test its existence). There is a design > problem For the record, with me it was readline. After *correctly* uninstalling things, everything worked happily. - -- Stuart Bishop ? http://www.stuartbishop.net/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (Darwin) iD8DBQE/pxaFAfqZj7rGN0oRAp/lAJ9sAfZqJHvL80ZRhuXBrVt8peP4dwCfS4os YEVcFQ6hkMK1+dY8kwwtfCI= =4Zf6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kevino at tulane.edu Tue Nov 4 01:14:29 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Tue Nov 4 01:19:29 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues In-Reply-To: <0A7B0813-0D69-11D8-BE4F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <93A41950-0CBE-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <20031101231550.GA40415@uiuc.edu> <4176DA6E-0CC2-11D8-844C-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <5F5B5C3A-0D5B-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <0A7B0813-0D69-11D8-BE4F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <262C6864-0E8E-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Hi Bob and all, I've just posted a new release of wxPackMan at: http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm I've addressed all the concerns except #6b, which as Bob says is an issue with wxWindows' drawing code. I haven't yet tracked that one down but I thought people'd want a version with all the other items fixed. =) Size of the package w/wxPython is dropped to 10 MB, and a 2.6MB download, while the one without wxPython is a 100KB download. Also, not only does CMD-Q work now, but the Close menu item doesn't even appear on Mac, as it should be (it will still appear on Windows, of course). Note that I did a little trickery with the version that includes wxPython by doing a standalone build and manually moving all the wxPython components into a "non-standalone" build of wxPackageManager (to reduce size). While it works on my machine even if I remove wxPython from site-packages, I would of course feel better if someone could confirm it works on their machine too. ;-) Thanks, Kevin On Nov 2, 2003, at 11:16 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > It's getting there! This one works (w/ wxPython, 5-6 "bouncemarks" on > my 1ghz pbg4) but: > 1) the executable is almost 29 megs! woah! Doesn't even include > Python itself :) > 2) it doesn't work w/o Jack's MacPython installed because you put > #!/usr/local/bin/python in the bootstrap script > 3) Lots of messages like this in the Console: > Traceback (most recent call last): > File > "/Users/bob/Desktop/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ > wxPackageManager.py", line 498, in OnListClick > self.lblVersion.SetLabel("Version: " + pkg.version()) > TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'NoneType' objects > 4) "View Homepage" button is activated for the first entry, even > though IDLE doesn't have a homepage associated. Doesn't validate > these controls until you change to another package. > 5) cmd-Q doesn't work > 6) visual bugs (probably wxWindows' fault) > - "bullet" doesn't have transparent background, so it has a white > square when highlighted > - sometimes (about 1/2 the time) when scrolling down by keyboard the > highlight only covers the bottom 3/4 or so of the item > > -bob > > On Nov 2, 2003, at 12:38 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> First off, let me say thanks for all your help in testing this! >> >> The ImportError was a result of my trying (unsuccessfully) to fix the >> error message Bob got. I thought it was a sys.path problem, but turns >> out it wasn't. Bob, I figured out the reason for the error you're >> getting - PyXML. Although none of the modules in wxPackMan nor >> PackMan use it, since the xml package is used, some parts of PyXML >> are picked up and included by bundlebuilder when doing >> semi/standalone. Unfortunately, this seems to lead to confusion over >> the expat library in the bundle - looks like PyXML has its own >> wrapper for expat? In any case, when trying to load the packages from >> the plist file, I get errors about no "parsers.expat". >> >> I resolved this for wxPM by putting "_xmlplus" in the list of >> excludeModules. So one problem is solved here! >> >> However, there is another one now. ^_^; Even when building in >> semi-standalone mode, sys.path is stripped down to only include >> Contents/Resources in it. This means, of course, wxPM doesn't "see" >> any system/user installed Python(s), and that becomes a big problem >> for wxPM. For the moment, I have two (less than ideal) solutions: >> >> - Provide a package (not semi-standalone or standalone) with the >> entire wxPython module manually copied in, which bloats the package >> to 5.6 MB. >> >> - Provide an alternate package (also not semi-standalone or >> standalone) for those with wxPython installed. >> >> I have gone ahead and done this and posted the packages to >> http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm/. I have tested the >> wxPython-included package by renaming my wxPython package (and thus >> making it 'disappear'), and it worked for me, but YMMV. (wxPython is >> the only module I use which is not system-installed.) >> >> In the meantime, if anyone has a solution to the sys.path issue that >> would work with semi-standalone, I would greatly appreciate it! Also, >> as soon as I can get out a wxPython package for Apple Python for >> Panther, I can make another bundle for that as well. =) >> >> Thanks, >> >> Kevin >> >> On Nov 1, 2003, at 3:22 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: >> >>> >>> On Nov 1, 2003, at 6:15 PM, Nicholas Riley wrote: >>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 02:56:06PM -0800, Kevin Ollivier wrote: >>>>> I created a new package and uploaded it to the same place >>>>> (http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm/) if anyone wants to give >>>>> this >>>>> a shot. Hopefully now you can do more than just look at the >>>>> screenshot! >>>> >>>> Still getting the same problem (no wxPython), unfortunately. I see >>>> it >>>> in Modules.zip but it must be that it's not ending up on the path. >>>> >>>> Traceback (most recent call last): >>>> File "Contents/Resources/wxPackageManager.py", line 32, in ? >>>> from wxPython.wx import * >>>> ImportError: No module named wxPython.wx >>> >>> I put this at the top of wxPackageManager.py: >>> import sys, os >>> os.chdir(os.path.split(__file__)[0]) >>> sys.path.append(os.path.realpath('Modules.zip')) >>> >>> The new traceback is: >>> Traceback (most recent call last): >>> File >>> "/Users/bob/download/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ >>> wxPackageManager.py", line 727, in ? >>> app = MyApp(0) >>> File >>> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/ >>> site-packages/wxPython/wx.py", line 1951, in __init__ >>> File >>> "/Users/bob/download/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ >>> wxPackageManager.py", line 92, in OnInit >>> self.frame = PackageManagerMain() >>> File >>> "/Users/bob/download/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ >>> wxPackageManager.py", line 219, in __init__ >>> self.LoadPackages() >>> File >>> "/Users/bob/download/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/Resources/ >>> wxPackageManager.py", line 360, in LoadPackages >>> packages = self.mypimp.packages >>> AttributeError: PimpInterface instance has no attribute 'packages' >>> >>> -bob >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > From just at letterror.com Tue Nov 4 04:11:23 2003 From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum) Date: Tue Nov 4 04:11:10 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues In-Reply-To: <262C6864-0E8E-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Message-ID: Kevin Ollivier wrote: > I've just posted a new release of wxPackMan at: > > http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm Two problems, the first is caused by bundlebuilder itself: 1) With --semi-standalone, bundlebuilder uses the actual Python executable path for the bootstrap #! line. Apparently this version was built on Panther, so it uses #!/System/Library/Frameworks/...etc., which obviously fails on Jaguar. (I tried to convince Jack back then that it was better to just always use #!/usr/bin/python for bootstrapping (--standalone already does this), I now wish I didn't give in...) 2) After I fix the above problem manually, I get this error: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/Volumes/TitaData/Users/just/Desktop/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/ Resources/wxPackageManager.py", line 32, in ? from wxPython.wx import * File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site- packages/PIL/__init__.py", line 20, in ? ImportError: Failure linking new module: /usr/lib/libiconv.2.dylib: dyld: /Volumes/TitaData/Users/just/Desktop/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/MacOS /wxPackageManager can't open library: /usr/lib/libiconv.2.dylib (No such file or directory, errno = 2) Maybe this is just proof that --semi-standalone apps built with Panther's Python simply won't work on Jag, even if it has Python.framework installed. Not sure what to suggest right now. Just From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Tue Nov 4 08:02:27 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Tue Nov 4 08:02:33 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: MacPython 2.3 for Panther - Second build In-Reply-To: References: <2789DDBD-0CC7-11D8-808F-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <2450A772-0EC7-11D8-BAF4-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> On 3-nov-03, at 20:00, Russell E. Owen wrote: > At risk of sounding ungrateful and a bit off-topic, what's the plan for > Python 2.3.1 or 2.3.2 (I can't tell if the 2.3.2 fixes matter, but some > of the 2.3.1 fixes do look relevant to the Mac)? 2.3.1 is dead: there were some serious problems that resulted in 2.3.2 being released quickly after it. However, I've been too busy to do a 2.3.2 installer for MacPython (but building it from source should work just fine). I have a big batch of patches sitting waiting for me, I'll incorporate these as soon as I have the time, and hopefully that will be in time for 2.3.3. -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Tue Nov 4 08:08:08 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Tue Nov 4 08:08:13 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan Fails to Install on Panther? In-Reply-To: <212FD9C1-0E3B-11D8-BBD5-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <3FA6B788.4070401@joshuatompkins.us> <212FD9C1-0E3B-11D8-BBD5-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: On 3-nov-03, at 21:20, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:16 PM, Joshua Tompkins wrote: > >> I'm running Python 2.3 on a stock install of Panther (I erased the >> drive and did a clean install), using Jack's second build of Python. >> If it matters, my computer is a Dual-USB iBook 600 with 384 megs of >> RAM. >> >> When I run PackMan, I can install things from the official list >> without any problems. If I try to install anything from Bob's >> unofficial list, though, I run into some problems. No matter what I >> try to install, I get a beach ball, then, a moment later, the >> interface is usable again, but the package doesn't install. PackMan >> gives a status "no module X" message. Is this a Panther issue, or a >> PackMan issue, or am I just doing something wrong? > > My unofficial list isn't built for Panther yet. It's a Jaguar list > and it puts things in the Jaguar places. Recompiling all these for > Panther is on my list. Bob, you could add a pseudo-package to your database to test that PackMan is running in a Python installed in /Library, and make all your packages depend on that. See the Panther PackMan database for an example. -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Tue Nov 4 08:22:03 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Tue Nov 4 08:22:11 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Scrolling problem with PythonIDE In-Reply-To: <200311032038.hA3KcSD24803@laplace.astro.cornell.edu> References: <200311032038.hA3KcSD24803@laplace.astro.cornell.edu> Message-ID: On 3-nov-03, at 21:38, Tom Loredo wrote: > When I use the MacPython2.3 IDE (on 10.2.6), if a window contains a > lot of content and I clicke above or below the scrollbar bubble to > move the view one page up or down, it always moves at least 2 pages. > It doesn't matter how quickly I tap the mouse; it always acts as > if it is receiving two clicks. No other app has this difficulty, > so I doubt it's a hardware or driver problem (I'm just using > Apple's own mouse). Is this perhaps a known TclTkAqua bug? I've been having this problem for years, and my solution has been not to click there:-) Just, do you have any idea what casues this, and how easy it would be to fix it? -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Tue Nov 4 08:30:18 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Tue Nov 4 08:30:22 2003 Subject: Interpreter in bundlebuilder (was: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08286CBD-0ECB-11D8-BAF4-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> On 4-nov-03, at 10:11, Just van Rossum wrote: > With --semi-standalone, bundlebuilder uses the actual Python executable > path for the bootstrap #! line. Apparently this version was built on > Panther, so it uses #!/System/Library/Frameworks/...etc., which > obviously fails on Jaguar. (I tried to convince Jack back then that it > was better to just always use #!/usr/bin/python for bootstrapping > (--standalone already does this), I now wish I didn't give in...) Okay, okay, you were right:-) The only thing I can say is that I hadn't expected Apple to include MacPython at the time... -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil Tue Nov 4 08:42:15 2003 From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Louis M. Pecora) Date: Tue Nov 4 08:42:07 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Scrolling problem with PythonIDE In-Reply-To: <200311032038.hA3KcSD24803@laplace.astro.cornell.edu> References: <200311032038.hA3KcSD24803@laplace.astro.cornell.edu> Message-ID: >Hi folks- > >This seems to be my week for scrolling problems! > >When I use the MacPython2.3 IDE (on 10.2.6), if a window contains a >lot of content and I clicke above or below the scrollbar bubble to >move the view one page up or down, it always moves at least 2 pages. >It doesn't matter how quickly I tap the mouse; it always acts as >if it is receiving two clicks. No other app has this difficulty, >so I doubt it's a hardware or driver problem (I'm just using >Apple's own mouse). Is this perhaps a known TclTkAqua bug? > >I can move the window up or down as needed by clicking on the >scrollbar arrows or dragging the indicator, but I frequently >work interactively, dumping a lot of output (from numerical >calculations) in the Output window, and clicking above the >scroll indicator is definitely the most efficient way to move >around for me much of the time. I have the same problem with 2.3 on 10.2.8. Scroll wheel for Logictech mouse doesn't work either (yes, the logictech sys pref is installed and shows up in teh system prefs. Works for other apps. -- Cheers, Lou Pecora From bob at redivi.com Tue Nov 4 08:55:53 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue Nov 4 08:57:20 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9B4487C6-0ECE-11D8-9B74-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> On Nov 4, 2003, at 4:11, Just van Rossum wrote: > Kevin Ollivier wrote: > >> I've just posted a new release of wxPackMan at: >> >> http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm --cut-- > ImportError: Failure linking new module: /usr/lib/libiconv.2.dylib: > dyld: > /Volumes/TitaData/Users/just/Desktop/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/ > MacOS > /wxPackageManager can't open library: /usr/lib/libiconv.2.dylib (No > such file or directory, errno = 2) > > Maybe this is just proof that --semi-standalone apps built with > Panther's Python simply won't work on Jag, even if it has > Python.framework installed. Not sure what to suggest right now. This is a wxWindows thing.. libiconv is present in Panther, it's not in Jaguar. If wxWindows were forced to link to a static libiconv this would probably have worked. perhaps setenv MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET 10.2 and then the necessary /Developer/SDKs -L and -F incantations are in order? -bob From kevino at tulane.edu Tue Nov 4 10:30:29 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Tue Nov 4 10:35:34 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues In-Reply-To: <9B4487C6-0ECE-11D8-9B74-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> References: <9B4487C6-0ECE-11D8-9B74-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> Message-ID: On Nov 4, 2003, at 5:55 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Nov 4, 2003, at 4:11, Just van Rossum wrote: > >> Kevin Ollivier wrote: >> >>> I've just posted a new release of wxPackMan at: >>> >>> http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm > --cut-- >> ImportError: Failure linking new module: /usr/lib/libiconv.2.dylib: >> dyld: >> /Volumes/TitaData/Users/just/Desktop/wxPackageManager.app/Contents/ >> MacOS >> /wxPackageManager can't open library: /usr/lib/libiconv.2.dylib (No >> such file or directory, errno = 2) >> >> Maybe this is just proof that --semi-standalone apps built with >> Panther's Python simply won't work on Jag, even if it has >> Python.framework installed. Not sure what to suggest right now. > > This is a wxWindows thing.. libiconv is present in Panther, it's not > in Jaguar. If wxWindows were forced to link to a static libiconv this > would probably have worked. perhaps setenv MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET > 10.2 and then the necessary /Developer/SDKs -L and -F incantations are > in order? The hack solution for now is for me to use a wxPython built on Jaguar . I'll rebuild and post sometime, probably sometime today. I'll also switch the link to /usr/bin/python which should solve the /Sys/Lib/Frameworks problem. I've seen discussions of this issue (static linking of libiconv) so I will revisit them and see if they have a solution for this issue already. Thanks, Kevin From just at letterror.com Tue Nov 4 11:00:46 2003 From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum) Date: Tue Nov 4 11:00:51 2003 Subject: Interpreter in bundlebuilder (was: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues) In-Reply-To: <08286CBD-0ECB-11D8-BAF4-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: Jack Jansen wrote: > > obviously fails on Jaguar. (I tried to convince Jack back then that > > it was better to just always use #!/usr/bin/python for > > bootstrapping (--standalone already does this), I now wish I didn't > > give in...) > > Okay, okay, you were right:-) > > The only thing I can say is that I hadn't expected Apple to include > MacPython at the time... Yeah, that and that --semi-standalone was specifically meant to distribute an app that depends on a (specific) system-supplied version, not an "arbitrary" installed one, so that's another reason we didn't anticipate /Library/Frameworks/... vs. /System/Library/Frameworks/... Just From oussoren at cistron.nl Tue Nov 4 11:02:16 2003 From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Tue Nov 4 11:02:22 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Incorrect entry about tkinter on apple website? Message-ID: <42C32800-0EE0-11D8-896F-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl> I noticed the following on http://developer.apple.com/unix/toolkits.html: > TkInter > Tkinter is Python's de-facto standard GUI (Graphical User Interface) > package. It is a thin object-oriented layer on top of Tcl/Tk, and is > the most commonly used toolkit for Python, as well as one of the most > portable (though see also WxWindows, below). It does not require you > to write Tcl, but you may need to refer to the Tcl/Tk documentation. > While available for X11 on Mac OS X, noone has yet integrated the Aqua > version of Tcl/Tk with Tkinter. Doesn't PackMan include a package for tkinter that integrates with the Aqua Tcl/Tk? Ronald From bob at redivi.com Tue Nov 4 11:06:45 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue Nov 4 11:07:04 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Incorrect entry about tkinter on apple website? In-Reply-To: <42C32800-0EE0-11D8-896F-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl> References: <42C32800-0EE0-11D8-896F-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl> Message-ID: On Nov 4, 2003, at 11:02 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > I noticed the following on > http://developer.apple.com/unix/toolkits.html: > >> TkInter >> Tkinter is Python's de-facto standard GUI (Graphical User Interface) >> package. It is a thin object-oriented layer on top of Tcl/Tk, and is >> the most commonly used toolkit for Python, as well as one of the most >> portable (though see also WxWindows, below). It does not require you >> to write Tcl, but you may need to refer to the Tcl/Tk documentation. >> While available for X11 on Mac OS X, noone has yet integrated the >> Aqua version of Tcl/Tk with Tkinter. > > Doesn't PackMan include a package for tkinter that integrates with the > Aqua Tcl/Tk? It sure does, but Panther doesn't come with Aqua Tcl/Tk or PackageManager ;) -bob From oussoren at cistron.nl Tue Nov 4 11:14:35 2003 From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Tue Nov 4 11:14:41 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Incorrect entry about tkinter on apple website? In-Reply-To: References: <42C32800-0EE0-11D8-896F-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl> Message-ID: On 4 nov 2003, at 17:06, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Nov 4, 2003, at 11:02 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > >> I noticed the following on >> http://developer.apple.com/unix/toolkits.html: >> >>> TkInter >>> Tkinter is Python's de-facto standard GUI (Graphical User Interface) >>> package. It is a thin object-oriented layer on top of Tcl/Tk, and is >>> the most commonly used toolkit for Python, as well as one of the >>> most portable (though see also WxWindows, below). It does not >>> require you to write Tcl, but you may need to refer to the Tcl/Tk >>> documentation. While available for X11 on Mac OS X, noone has yet >>> integrated the Aqua version of Tcl/Tk with Tkinter. >> >> Doesn't PackMan include a package for tkinter that integrates with >> the Aqua Tcl/Tk? > > It sure does, but Panther doesn't come with Aqua Tcl/Tk or > PackageManager ;) Sure, but the text basically claims that there is no Aqua Tkinter and that is not true. Ronald From berkowit at silcom.com Tue Nov 4 11:19:24 2003 From: berkowit at silcom.com (Paul Berkowitz) Date: Tue Nov 4 11:19:28 2003 Subject: Interpreter in bundlebuilder (was: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issues) In-Reply-To: <08286CBD-0ECB-11D8-BAF4-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: On 11/4/03 5:30 AM, "Jack Jansen" wrote: > > On 4-nov-03, at 10:11, Just van Rossum wrote: >> With --semi-standalone, bundlebuilder uses the actual Python executable >> path for the bootstrap #! line. Apparently this version was built on >> Panther, so it uses #!/System/Library/Frameworks/...etc., which >> obviously fails on Jaguar. (I tried to convince Jack back then that it >> was better to just always use #!/usr/bin/python for bootstrapping >> (--standalone already does this), I now wish I didn't give in...) > > Okay, okay, you were right:-) > > The only thing I can say is that I hadn't expected Apple to include > MacPython > at the time... I'm fascinated as always to read about all these different issues. I'm wondering where things stand at this point on what I would consider the end aim of them all: Are we yet at a place where I could choose to install clearly marked items of MacPython and/or PackMan - preferably the whole thing of either or both - in order to give me better tools for developing in Python such as a nice IDE - but still not require my users to install anything except the current (or a specified earlier) OS such as OS 10.3 in order to run the applications or scripts I make? I realize that other people are interested in being able to make cross-platform applications which might have a different answer. -- Paul Berkowitz From bob at redivi.com Tue Nov 4 11:25:08 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue Nov 4 11:25:05 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Incorrect entry about tkinter on apple website? In-Reply-To: References: <42C32800-0EE0-11D8-896F-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl> Message-ID: <74BA3B7E-0EE3-11D8-B158-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 4, 2003, at 11:14 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > On 4 nov 2003, at 17:06, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> On Nov 4, 2003, at 11:02 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: >> >>> I noticed the following on >>> http://developer.apple.com/unix/toolkits.html: >>> >>>> TkInter >>>> Tkinter is Python's de-facto standard GUI (Graphical User >>>> Interface) package. It is a thin object-oriented layer on top of >>>> Tcl/Tk, and is the most commonly used toolkit for Python, as well >>>> as one of the most portable (though see also WxWindows, below). It >>>> does not require you to write Tcl, but you may need to refer to the >>>> Tcl/Tk documentation. While available for X11 on Mac OS X, noone >>>> has yet integrated the Aqua version of Tcl/Tk with Tkinter. >>> >>> Doesn't PackMan include a package for tkinter that integrates with >>> the Aqua Tcl/Tk? >> >> It sure does, but Panther doesn't come with Aqua Tcl/Tk or >> PackageManager ;) > > Sure, but the text basically claims that there is no Aqua Tkinter and > that is not true. I think that page is pretty old.. Also, the Tk paragraph has an incomplete sentence: Tk is a graphical user interface toolkit that makes it possible to create powerful GUIs incredibly quickly. It proved so popular that it now ships with all distributions of Tcl, and there are now variants for Perl and Python. The latest Tk distribution includes beta-quality support for Tk/Aqua, though production ... it just ends there? -bob From bob at redivi.com Tue Nov 4 11:33:48 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue Nov 4 11:34:08 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux Message-ID: Sorry to bring this up.. but it took a couple months to get this :) I had my roommate ( Evan Mathis - http://www.morevisual.com/ ) come up with a new MacPython logo: http://undefined.org/python/py_mac-sq-256.png (the original is in Photoshop format, and is much higher resolution than this) Which is a potential replacement for: http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/pics/MacPyBanner.gif (look at it from http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/ -- the transparency on that gif is.. weird) Another suggested candidate was: http://gandreas.dsl.visi.com:8000/IndyIcon.tif (Glenn Andreas) So, anyone like it, hate it? I know that some people are opposed to the snake, but this one is not a photo of a real Python. I like it, and other Python-the-language-related-things use Python-the-snake-related-identities and I think it's important to keep that kinda consistent. A 16 ton weight takes quite a few leaps to get there and I don't believe other Python-the-language-related-things use 16 ton weights. And as discussed before, the cool Python text featured on http://www.python.org/ does not work at small resolutions, so that is not an option. -bob From oussoren at cistron.nl Tue Nov 4 11:46:17 2003 From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Tue Nov 4 11:46:23 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Incorrect entry about tkinter on apple website? In-Reply-To: <74BA3B7E-0EE3-11D8-B158-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <42C32800-0EE0-11D8-896F-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl> <74BA3B7E-0EE3-11D8-B158-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <68DC2948-0EE6-11D8-896F-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl> On 4 nov 2003, at 17:25, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > I think that page is pretty old.. Maybe, but I guess is was recently updated because it was mentioned in the latest ADC newsletter. Ronald From oussoren at cistron.nl Tue Nov 4 11:59:36 2003 From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Tue Nov 4 11:59:42 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <457771F3-0EE8-11D8-896F-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl> On 4 nov 2003, at 17:33, Bob Ippolito wrote: > Sorry to bring this up.. but it took a couple months to get this :) > > I had my roommate ( Evan Mathis - http://www.morevisual.com/ ) come up > with a new MacPython logo: > http://undefined.org/python/py_mac-sq-256.png (the original is in > Photoshop format, and is much higher resolution than this) I like this. Ronald From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil Tue Nov 4 12:04:13 2003 From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Louis M. Pecora) Date: Tue Nov 4 12:04:13 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I had my roommate ( Evan Mathis - http://www.morevisual.com/ ) come >up with a new MacPython logo: > http://undefined.org/python/py_mac-sq-256.png (the original >is in Photoshop format, and is much higher resolution than this) > >Which is a potential replacement for: > http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/pics/MacPyBanner.gif > (look at it from http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/ -- >the transparency on that gif is.. weird) > >Another suggested candidate was: > http://gandreas.dsl.visi.com:8000/IndyIcon.tif (Glenn Andreas) I like the 16 ton weight (with references to Monty) rather than the more obvious snakes. -- Cheers, Lou Pecora From kevino at tulane.edu Tue Nov 4 12:28:34 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Tue Nov 4 12:36:37 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51648009-0EEC-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Hi Bob, I have to say I will always vote against anything that looks like a real snake, art or picture. The problem is that some people find snakes creepy (the scales, eyes). A picture that *abstractly* looks like a snake or is playful, i.e. the PyGame or Windows Python icon, is OK, but something that is quite realistic (i.e. the O'Reilly Pocket Reference), even if not intentionally spooky or creepy, nonetheless is so to people who dislike or are afraid of snakes. (And the media does play on this - you're most likely to see snakes in horror movies or wilderness shows like "Crocodile Hunter" - they present the image of dangerous, creepy, menacing.) And after reading an article from Linus last night, I have a slightly new perspective on this issue - after all, just WHAT does a penguin have to do with an operating system kernel? ;-) But there is little doubt that 'Tux' is well-liked in the community and is now clearly associated with Linux and open source. And it really is a good icon design - bright colors, cute-looking, and heck, most everyone likes penguins. So I think a realistic snake icon may just be swinging the pendulum in the other direction - going from too abstract to too realistic. On the more 'practical' side, I think the icon is too detailed to show clearly at small sizes, like 32x32, and I'm not sure the Apple reference is really needed. A good icon could be used on XP as well, and plus Mac users know they're on Mac - I've seen very few icons (if any) which use the Apple logo in them. I think it really needs to be kept simple. Kevin On Nov 4, 2003, at 8:33 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > Sorry to bring this up.. but it took a couple months to get this :) > > I had my roommate ( Evan Mathis - http://www.morevisual.com/ ) come up > with a new MacPython logo: > http://undefined.org/python/py_mac-sq-256.png (the original is in > Photoshop format, and is much higher resolution than this) > > Which is a potential replacement for: > http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/pics/MacPyBanner.gif > (look at it from http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/ -- the > transparency on that gif is.. weird) > > Another suggested candidate was: > http://gandreas.dsl.visi.com:8000/IndyIcon.tif (Glenn Andreas) > > So, anyone like it, hate it? I know that some people are opposed to > the snake, but this one is not a photo of a real Python. I like it, > and other Python-the-language-related-things use > Python-the-snake-related-identities and I think it's important to keep > that kinda consistent. A 16 ton weight takes quite a few leaps to get > there and I don't believe other Python-the-language-related-things use > 16 ton weights. And as discussed before, the cool Python text > featured on http://www.python.org/ does not work at small resolutions, > so that is not an option. > > -bob > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > From bob at redivi.com Tue Nov 4 12:58:29 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue Nov 4 12:58:47 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <51648009-0EEC-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> References: <51648009-0EEC-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Message-ID: <7F2F2664-0EF0-11D8-B158-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> You may have a point with regard to people disliking/being afraid of snakes. However, I'm not sure how much weight that really carries. Python isn't named FuzzyBunny, and even though the language was not named after the snake, it seems that most people (even the people that know the reference) make the snake association. Also, most (all?) software developers/researchers/hobbyists/etc are mature enough to not have a problem with a depiction of a snake. Yes, the logo is detailed, but scaling is not an issue because I have access to the designer and can have him tweak an icns file to get the low res versions right. Besides, it's layered photoshop, and organized well enough so that even I could rather painlessly remove enough of the detail to have it gracefully scale down to 32x32 just by hiding layers. As far as the apple goes, it's a separate layer and can be replaced with other things for customization purposes -- i.e. you could potentially put something that looks like a console there for PyInterpreter. I'm not terribly concerned with Windows XP, I just want something to work for OS X. -bob On Nov 4, 2003, at 12:28 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: > I have to say I will always vote against anything that looks like a > real snake, art or picture. The problem is that some people find > snakes creepy (the scales, eyes). A picture that *abstractly* looks > like a snake or is playful, i.e. the PyGame or Windows Python icon, is > OK, but something that is quite realistic (i.e. the O'Reilly Pocket > Reference), even if not intentionally spooky or creepy, nonetheless is > so to people who dislike or are afraid of snakes. (And the media does > play on this - you're most likely to see snakes in horror movies or > wilderness shows like "Crocodile Hunter" - they present the image of > dangerous, creepy, menacing.) > > And after reading an article from Linus last night, I have a slightly > new perspective on this issue - after all, just WHAT does a penguin > have to do with an operating system kernel? ;-) But there is little > doubt that 'Tux' is well-liked in the community and is now clearly > associated with Linux and open source. And it really is a good icon > design - bright colors, cute-looking, and heck, most everyone likes > penguins. So I think a realistic snake icon may just be swinging the > pendulum in the other direction - going from too abstract to too > realistic. > > On the more 'practical' side, I think the icon is too detailed to show > clearly at small sizes, like 32x32, and I'm not sure the Apple > reference is really needed. A good icon could be used on XP as well, > and plus Mac users know they're on Mac - I've seen very few icons (if > any) which use the Apple logo in them. I think it really needs to be > kept simple. > > Kevin > > On Nov 4, 2003, at 8:33 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> Sorry to bring this up.. but it took a couple months to get this :) >> >> I had my roommate ( Evan Mathis - http://www.morevisual.com/ ) come >> up with a new MacPython logo: >> http://undefined.org/python/py_mac-sq-256.png (the original is in >> Photoshop format, and is much higher resolution than this) >> >> Which is a potential replacement for: >> http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/pics/MacPyBanner.gif >> (look at it from http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/ -- the >> transparency on that gif is.. weird) >> >> Another suggested candidate was: >> http://gandreas.dsl.visi.com:8000/IndyIcon.tif (Glenn Andreas) >> >> So, anyone like it, hate it? I know that some people are opposed to >> the snake, but this one is not a photo of a real Python. I like it, >> and other Python-the-language-related-things use >> Python-the-snake-related-identities and I think it's important to >> keep that kinda consistent. A 16 ton weight takes quite a few leaps >> to get there and I don't believe other >> Python-the-language-related-things use 16 ton weights. And as >> discussed before, the cool Python text featured on >> http://www.python.org/ does not work at small resolutions, so that is >> not an option. >> >> -bob >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig From dethe.elza at blastradius.com Tue Nov 4 13:06:38 2003 From: dethe.elza at blastradius.com (Dethe Elza) Date: Tue Nov 4 13:06:49 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issue Message-ID: I've just updated to Panther and I'm trying to get my Python environment working again. I grabbed the Panther Add-ons and began installing what was missing. Around Tkinter the PackageManager crashed and wouldn't restart successfully. In the console was the error, "Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?)." I deleted the _tkinter.so and PackageManager started working again. I was able to load the Pygames package list from URL (it would be nice if PackMan could remember this between invokations) and load the Pygames dependencies, but things started going south again. Now PackageManager is no longer crashing, but the same message is showing up in the console. I'm not able to install packages, but it just quietly fails now, with no info except that message in the console. How can I go about finding what is causing PackMan to fail? --Dethe As for intelligent machines taking over, a machine does not have to be intelligent to conquer the world; it merely has to be desireable. We've already lost a war to a synthetic species--the automobile--that has killed more than 15 million people; occupied all of our cities except Venice, Italy; and continues to exact crushing taxes in resources, wealth, and time from over half the planet--and everybody wants one. --Grant Thompson From managan at llnl.gov Tue Nov 4 13:12:50 2003 From: managan at llnl.gov (Rob Managan) Date: Tue Nov 4 13:12:59 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <7F2F2664-0EF0-11D8-B158-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <51648009-0EEC-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <7F2F2664-0EF0-11D8-B158-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: At 12:58 PM -0500 11/4/03, Bob Ippolito wrote: >You may have a point with regard to people disliking/being afraid of >snakes. However, I'm not sure how much weight that really carries. >Python isn't named FuzzyBunny, and even though the language was not >named after the snake, it seems that most people (even the people >that know the reference) make the snake association. Also, most >(all?) software developers/researchers/hobbyists/etc are mature >enough to not have a problem with a depiction of a snake. > >Yes, the logo is detailed, but scaling is not an issue because I >have access to the designer and can have him tweak an icns file to >get the low res versions right. Besides, it's layered photoshop, >and organized well enough so that even I could rather painlessly >remove enough of the detail to have it gracefully scale down to >32x32 just by hiding layers. > >As far as the apple goes, it's a separate layer and can be replaced >with other things for customization purposes -- i.e. you could >potentially put something that looks like a console there for >PyInterpreter. I'm not terribly concerned with Windows XP, I just >want something to work for OS X. > >-bob > I like the image. At low resolution for an icon I don't think it is an issue with those that hate snakes. (not really knowing anyone that averse to snakes I am probably just making noise there however) -- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- Rob Managan email managan at llnl.gov LLNL phone: 925-423-0903 P.O. Box 808, L-095 FAX: 925-422-3389 Livermore, CA 94551-0808 From bob at redivi.com Tue Nov 4 13:36:47 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue Nov 4 13:37:04 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 4, 2003, at 1:06 PM, Dethe Elza wrote: > I've just updated to Panther and I'm trying to get my Python > environment working again. I grabbed the Panther Add-ons and began > installing what was missing. Around Tkinter the PackageManager > crashed and wouldn't restart successfully. In the console was the > error, "Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version > mismatch?)." I deleted the _tkinter.so and PackageManager started > working again. I was able to load the Pygames package list from URL > (it would be nice if PackMan could remember this between invokations) > and load the Pygames dependencies, but things started going south > again. Now PackageManager is no longer crashing, but the same message > is showing up in the console. I'm not able to install packages, but > it just quietly fails now, with no info except that message in the > console. How can I go about finding what is causing PackMan to fail? Your problem is that there is a conflict between the two versions of Python you have installed. The simple answer is to uninstall the 10.2-centric version of MacPython 2.3, instructions are available here: http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/uninstall.html For more information, you may check the archives for the past week or two.. but uninstalling should make things happy again. -bob From kevino at tulane.edu Tue Nov 4 13:46:58 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Tue Nov 4 13:51:58 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <7F2F2664-0EF0-11D8-B158-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <51648009-0EEC-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <7F2F2664-0EF0-11D8-B158-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <44FD3025-0EF7-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Hi Bob, On Nov 4, 2003, at 9:58 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > You may have a point with regard to people disliking/being afraid of > snakes. However, I'm not sure how much weight that really carries. > Python isn't named FuzzyBunny, and even though the language was not > named after the snake, it seems that most people (even the people that > know the reference) make the snake association. Also, most (all?) > software developers/researchers/hobbyists/etc are mature enough to not > have a problem with a depiction of a snake. As far as it may affect people's desire to check out the language on Mac, I think it carries a lot of weight. Certainly I personally am more interested in convincing people to consider using Python than I am of making sure the snake reference is adhered to. And on the flip-side of the coin, it isn't named DangerousBadassSnake either. I guess I actually see the Python community as playful, light-hearted - i.e. Tim Peters' Zen of Python. The Windows snake, the PyGame logo, and the 16-Ton icon (though an obscure reference) keep this feeling of playfulness/silliness - this new icon doesn't say "playful" or "light-hearted" at all. I don't associate it with my own experiences using Python. It makes me think 'tough' and 'dangerous', and I don't see why one would want to convey the Python software/community that way. Also, I personally don't think it's an issue of maturity - I personally find spiders creepy, and would like to avoid looking at or touching them if at all possible. ;-) Does this mean I'm immature? I don't think so. I can't say that my perception of spiders is rational; but its there and I'd guess it's built-in. And I'd bet it's why you don't see many "realistic" spider-based logos - the ones you do see are 'abstract' ala Spider-Man. > Yes, the logo is detailed, but scaling is not an issue because I have > access to the designer and can have him tweak an icns file to get the > low res versions right. Besides, it's layered photoshop, and > organized well enough so that even I could rather painlessly remove > enough of the detail to have it gracefully scale down to 32x32 just by > hiding layers. > > As far as the apple goes, it's a separate layer and can be replaced > with other things for customization purposes -- i.e. you could > potentially put something that looks like a console there for > PyInterpreter. I'm not terribly concerned with Windows XP, I just > want something to work for OS X. Still, I think brand consistency is important, and if we're going to change the logo, we might as well make it consistent. For example, the 'Tux' image is pretty consistently used with Linux. (Sure some folks have taken a picture of a penguin and turned it into an icon, but we all know what Tux looks like.) Having different snakes on different platforms dilutes the brand, and icons are definitely about promoting the brand/product/whatever. That's my two cents, anyways. Thanks, Kevin > > On Nov 4, 2003, at 12:28 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: > >> I have to say I will always vote against anything that looks like a >> real snake, art or picture. The problem is that some people find >> snakes creepy (the scales, eyes). A picture that *abstractly* looks >> like a snake or is playful, i.e. the PyGame or Windows Python icon, >> is OK, but something that is quite realistic (i.e. the O'Reilly >> Pocket Reference), even if not intentionally spooky or creepy, >> nonetheless is so to people who dislike or are afraid of snakes. (And >> the media does play on this - you're most likely to see snakes in >> horror movies or wilderness shows like "Crocodile Hunter" - they >> present the image of dangerous, creepy, menacing.) >> >> And after reading an article from Linus last night, I have a slightly >> new perspective on this issue - after all, just WHAT does a penguin >> have to do with an operating system kernel? ;-) But there is little >> doubt that 'Tux' is well-liked in the community and is now clearly >> associated with Linux and open source. And it really is a good icon >> design - bright colors, cute-looking, and heck, most everyone likes >> penguins. So I think a realistic snake icon may just be swinging the >> pendulum in the other direction - going from too abstract to too >> realistic. >> >> On the more 'practical' side, I think the icon is too detailed to >> show clearly at small sizes, like 32x32, and I'm not sure the Apple >> reference is really needed. A good icon could be used on XP as well, >> and plus Mac users know they're on Mac - I've seen very few icons (if >> any) which use the Apple logo in them. I think it really needs to be >> kept simple. >> >> Kevin >> >> On Nov 4, 2003, at 8:33 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: >> >>> Sorry to bring this up.. but it took a couple months to get this :) >>> >>> I had my roommate ( Evan Mathis - http://www.morevisual.com/ ) come >>> up with a new MacPython logo: >>> http://undefined.org/python/py_mac-sq-256.png (the original is in >>> Photoshop format, and is much higher resolution than this) >>> >>> Which is a potential replacement for: >>> http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/pics/MacPyBanner.gif >>> (look at it from http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/ -- the >>> transparency on that gif is.. weird) >>> >>> Another suggested candidate was: >>> http://gandreas.dsl.visi.com:8000/IndyIcon.tif (Glenn Andreas) >>> >>> So, anyone like it, hate it? I know that some people are opposed to >>> the snake, but this one is not a photo of a real Python. I like it, >>> and other Python-the-language-related-things use >>> Python-the-snake-related-identities and I think it's important to >>> keep that kinda consistent. A 16 ton weight takes quite a few leaps >>> to get there and I don't believe other >>> Python-the-language-related-things use 16 ton weights. And as >>> discussed before, the cool Python text featured on >>> http://www.python.org/ does not work at small resolutions, so that >>> is not an option. >>> >>> -bob >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > From dethe.elza at blastradius.com Tue Nov 4 14:02:13 2003 From: dethe.elza at blastradius.com (Dethe Elza) Date: Tue Nov 4 14:02:25 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <669065AE-0EF9-11D8-8CE3-0003939B59E8@blastradius.com> Thanks, Bob. I did review a quite a number of the previous messages, but hadn't gotten the importance of uninstalling. Things are better now, I think the issues I still have are with the binary libraries provided by the Pygames PackMan database, which I can take up with the maintainer. Thanks again! --Dethe "There's a little bit of God in every truck driver and a little bit of truck driver in every God." -- Blayne Horner From dethe.elza at blastradius.com Tue Nov 4 14:08:41 2003 From: dethe.elza at blastradius.com (Dethe Elza) Date: Tue Nov 4 14:08:49 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issue In-Reply-To: <669065AE-0EF9-11D8-8CE3-0003939B59E8@blastradius.com> References: <669065AE-0EF9-11D8-8CE3-0003939B59E8@blastradius.com> Message-ID: <4DEE09BE-0EFA-11D8-8CE3-0003939B59E8@blastradius.com> Dethe Elza wrote: > which I can take up with the maintainer. And which, moments after sending that message, I realized was you. So, is the list at http://undefined.org/python/pimp/darwin-6.8-Power_Macintosh.plist up-to-date for Panther? I'm still getting silent failures, although in the Verbose window, curl appears to be doing its thing. Am I still missing some incantation, besides nuking my old python2.3? --Dethe As for intelligent machines taking over, a machine does not have to be intelligent to conquer the world; it merely has to be desireable. We've already lost a war to a synthetic species--the automobile--that has killed more than 15 million people; occupied all of our cities except Venice, Italy; and continues to exact crushing taxes in resources, wealth, and time from over half the planet--and everybody wants one. --Grant Thompson From bob at redivi.com Tue Nov 4 14:24:29 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue Nov 4 14:24:48 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issue In-Reply-To: <4DEE09BE-0EFA-11D8-8CE3-0003939B59E8@blastradius.com> References: <669065AE-0EF9-11D8-8CE3-0003939B59E8@blastradius.com> <4DEE09BE-0EFA-11D8-8CE3-0003939B59E8@blastradius.com> Message-ID: <82B4D90A-0EFC-11D8-B158-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 4, 2003, at 2:08 PM, Dethe Elza wrote: > Dethe Elza wrote: > >> which I can take up with the maintainer. > > And which, moments after sending that message, I realized was you. > > So, is the list at > > http://undefined.org/python/pimp/darwin-6.8-Power_Macintosh.plist > > up-to-date for Panther? I'm still getting silent failures, although > in the Verbose window, curl appears to be doing its thing. Am I still > missing some incantation, besides nuking my old python2.3? This list is not updated for Panther (panther is darwin-7.0). It's possible to make it work (this is a workaround, not a solution!) by moving the files from the /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site- packages to /Library/Python/2.3/ -- you can make it work even smoother by removing the /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site- packages folder and putting a symlink named "site-packages" to /Library/Python/2.3/ in its place. Note again, this is a workaround! Please be ready to re-install these packages once I have a real Panther distribution of them ready. I do plan on updating everything on my list for Panther in the next week or so, and will probably discontinue my Jaguar support as I don't really have the time/desire to maintain two sets of packages right now. I'll make a post to this list as soon as the Panther list is available. -bob From dethe.elza at blastradius.com Tue Nov 4 14:41:03 2003 From: dethe.elza at blastradius.com (Dethe Elza) Date: Tue Nov 4 14:41:11 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issue In-Reply-To: <82B4D90A-0EFC-11D8-B158-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <669065AE-0EF9-11D8-8CE3-0003939B59E8@blastradius.com> <4DEE09BE-0EFA-11D8-8CE3-0003939B59E8@blastradius.com> <82B4D90A-0EFC-11D8-B158-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: Awesome! That seems to have everything working. Thanks again, Bob. And thanks for the work all of you have put into this. Getting all the extra batteries into Python is finally becoming as accessible on OS X as it has been on Linux for some time. Very nice. --Dethe "There's a little bit of God in every truck driver and a little bit of truck driver in every God." -- Blayne Horner From eric.nieuwland at xs4all.nl Tue Nov 4 14:56:32 2003 From: eric.nieuwland at xs4all.nl (Eric Nieuwland) Date: Tue Nov 4 14:56:37 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bob, A Python wrapping around an apple. I find it even nicer then I imagined it when we discussed this a while ago. I'd say if no one comes up with something really better, this is the one. --eric On 4-nov-03, at 17:33, Bob Ippolito wrote: > Sorry to bring this up.. but it took a couple months to get this :) > > I had my roommate ( Evan Mathis - http://www.morevisual.com/ ) come up > with a new MacPython logo: > http://undefined.org/python/py_mac-sq-256.png (the original is in > Photoshop format, and is much higher resolution than this) From jmillr at umich.edu Tue Nov 4 15:41:29 2003 From: jmillr at umich.edu (John Miller) Date: Tue Nov 4 15:41:34 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4436DA4D-0F07-11D8-8541-00039303967A@umich.edu> On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 01:53 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > As far as the apple goes, it's a separate layer and can be replaced > with other things for customization purposes -- i.e. you could > potentially put something that looks like a console there for > PyInterpreter. Yes, please. I don't terribly object to the snake, and prefer a stylized one to a photorealistic one, but I think we may unnecessarily push some people's buttons by placing a snake in such close proximity to an apple (biblical fall from grace story). How about the interpreter prompt ('>>>') instead? Or enclose the snake in square braces ('[~~~~]')? I'm aiming for something that synthesizes the command line interface with the graphical user interface... John Miller From who2guess at xs4all.nl Tue Nov 4 15:52:30 2003 From: who2guess at xs4all.nl (W.H.Offenbach) Date: Tue Nov 4 15:52:35 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <4436DA4D-0F07-11D8-8541-00039303967A@umich.edu> References: <4436DA4D-0F07-11D8-8541-00039303967A@umich.edu> Message-ID: > I don't terribly object to the snake, and prefer a stylized one to a > photorealistic one, but I think we may unnecessarily push some > people's buttons by placing a snake in such close proximity to an > apple (biblical fall from grace story). With all due respect, the fall from grace followed when A&E became aware, started to know. Besides, the bible doesn't say "apple" it just mentions "fruit". Making it an apple is man's invention (either by tradition or translation), not the snake's. From jmillr at umich.edu Tue Nov 4 16:05:52 2003 From: jmillr at umich.edu (John Miller) Date: Tue Nov 4 16:05:57 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 03:52 PM, W.H.Offenbach wrote: >> I don't terribly object to the snake, and prefer a stylized one to a >> photorealistic one, but I think we may unnecessarily push some >> people's buttons by placing a snake in such close proximity to an >> apple (biblical fall from grace story). > > With all due respect, the fall from grace followed when A&E became > aware, started to know. > Besides, the bible doesn't say "apple" it just mentions "fruit". > Making it an apple is man's invention (either by tradition or > translation), not the snake's. Yes, I agree. It's just that the proximity of the snake and the apple in the graphic is suggestive of the story and may cause unnecessary avoidance by some. ("Lead us not into temptation...") Also, the use of an apple in an app's icon, as others have said, is somewhat redundant on a Macintosh and is not very common. From who2guess at xs4all.nl Tue Nov 4 16:10:31 2003 From: who2guess at xs4all.nl (W.H.Offenbach) Date: Tue Nov 4 16:10:37 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5308AB00-0F0B-11D8-80B8-000393894CEA@xs4all.nl> On 4-nov-03, at 22:05, John Miller wrote: > On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 03:52 PM, W.H.Offenbach wrote: > >>> I don't terribly object to the snake, and prefer a stylized one to a >>> photorealistic one, but I think we may unnecessarily push some >>> people's buttons by placing a snake in such close proximity to an >>> apple (biblical fall from grace story). >> >> With all due respect, the fall from grace followed when A&E became >> aware, started to know. >> Besides, the bible doesn't say "apple" it just mentions "fruit". >> Making it an apple is man's invention (either by tradition or >> translation), not the snake's. > > Yes, I agree. It's just that the proximity of the snake and the apple > in the graphic is suggestive of the story and may cause unnecessary > avoidance by some. ("Lead us not into temptation...") Also, the use of > an apple in an app's icon, as others have said, is somewhat redundant > on a Macintosh and is not very common. When it comes to programming, I want to be tempted. To use Python, that is ;-) From larry.bugbee at boeing.com Tue Nov 4 16:13:12 2003 From: larry.bugbee at boeing.com (Bugbee, Larry) Date: Tue Nov 4 16:14:15 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux Message-ID: <8CFC81BC2CC2A74F88BAB7180F00B77902ED7AA9@xch-nw-29.nw.nos.boeing.com> First, I want to pass on Kudos to the artist. The quality is good. Unfortunately... I don't think this logo would be in Python's best interest and there are a number that would agree. Please remember that we are trying to *promote* Python, or at a minimum, convey a positive feeling towards Python, and that goal will not be realized if there is a sizable community with a strong aversion. ...whether some feel that behavior is immature or otherwise. Something less divisive would be better. > I'd say if no one comes up with something really better, this is the one. Sorry, I say we continue the search. From eric.nieuwland at xs4all.nl Tue Nov 4 16:23:04 2003 From: eric.nieuwland at xs4all.nl (Eric Nieuwland) Date: Tue Nov 4 16:23:13 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <8CFC81BC2CC2A74F88BAB7180F00B77902ED7AA9@xch-nw-29.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <8CFC81BC2CC2A74F88BAB7180F00B77902ED7AA9@xch-nw-29.nw.nos.boeing.com> Message-ID: <136E5C6A-0F0D-11D8-80B8-000393894CEA@xs4all.nl> On 4-nov-03, at 22:13, Bugbee, Larry wrote: > First, I want to pass on Kudos to the artist. The quality is good. > Unfortunately... > > I don't think this logo would be in Python's best interest and there > are a number that would agree. Please remember that we are trying to > *promote* Python, or at a minimum, convey a positive feeling towards > Python, and that goal will not be realized if there is a sizable > community with a strong aversion. ...whether some feel that behavior > is immature or otherwise. Something less divisive would be better. OK. You've got a point. Let's ask Bob whether the artist could replace the apple by a MacPlus. Would that do? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 679 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031104/8e3e2aa2/attachment.bin From gandreas at delver.com Tue Nov 4 16:29:20 2003 From: gandreas at delver.com (Glenn Andreas) Date: Tue Nov 4 16:29:47 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 4:05 PM -0500 11/4/03, John Miller wrote: >On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 03:52 PM, W.H.Offenbach wrote: > >>>I don't terribly object to the snake, and prefer a stylized one to >>>a photorealistic one, but I think we may unnecessarily push some >>>people's buttons by placing a snake in such close proximity to an >>>apple (biblical fall from grace story). >> >>With all due respect, the fall from grace followed when A&E became >>aware, started to know. >>Besides, the bible doesn't say "apple" it just mentions "fruit". >>Making it an apple is man's invention (either by tradition or >>translation), not the snake's. > >Yes, I agree. It's just that the proximity of the snake and the >apple in the graphic is suggestive of the story and may cause >unnecessary avoidance by some. ("Lead us not into temptation...") Though for the Gnostics, Typhonians and a few others, it is the complete opposite (who view the story as all about serpent granting enlightenment and freedom from the Demiurge). Pretty much any sort of symbol is bound to have different connotations to different people. > Also, the use of an apple in an app's icon, as others have said, is >somewhat redundant on a Macintosh and is not very common. >From http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGIcons/chapter_13_section_6.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20000967/TPXREF120 "Avoid using Aqua interface elements in your icons" and "Don't use replicas of Apple hardware products in your icons. These symbols are copyrighted and hardware designs change frequently." One could argue that the Apple icon, being in the menu bar, is an Aqua interface element, and also that it is a copyrighted symbol. It certainly seems redundant at the very least. For a different idea, what about a "grail"? It would be both a Monty Python reference (probably more recognizable than the 10-ton weight, since Wile E. Coyote is also hit by weights like that), as well as something that has connotations of something "really good" (which Python of course is). It would also be a "real world" sort of object that tends to look good as aqua icons. -- Glenn Andreas gandreas@delver.com Theldrow, Blobbo, Cythera, oh my! Be good, and you will be lonesome From Martina at Oefelein.de Tue Nov 4 16:33:41 2003 From: Martina at Oefelein.de (Martina Oefelein) Date: Tue Nov 4 16:33:50 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <44FD3025-0EF7-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> References: <51648009-0EEC-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <7F2F2664-0EF0-11D8-B158-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <44FD3025-0EF7-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Message-ID: <8F522CF5-0F0E-11D8-9E7D-000A957DBE94@Oefelein.de> Hi Kevin, > The Windows snake, the PyGame logo, and the 16-Ton icon (though an > obscure reference) keep this feeling of playfulness/silliness for me those look just like icons from the old (Win95/MacOS7) days, probably due to the limited color-depth and the primitive checkerboard-dithering. Potential new users might think "this looks sooo old, does it run on MacOS X at all or do I need MacOS Classic for it?" and turn away. > - this new icon doesn't say "playful" or "light-hearted" at all. I > don't associate it with my own experiences using Python. It makes me > think 'tough' and 'dangerous', and I don't see why one would want to > convey the Python software/community that way. Well, it should be possible to make a modern-looking icon which still looks playful. On the other hand, the "tough" look somehow fits the "tough" look of Panther and the G5. ciao Martina From Martina at Oefelein.de Tue Nov 4 16:16:43 2003 From: Martina at Oefelein.de (Martina Oefelein) Date: Tue Nov 4 16:34:12 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <51648009-0EEC-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> References: <51648009-0EEC-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Message-ID: <305C8DAA-0F0C-11D8-9E7D-000A957DBE94@Oefelein.de> Hi Kevin, > I've seen very few icons (if any) which use the Apple logo in them. Isn't one reason for the lack of Apple logo in icons that Apple doesn't allow using their logo? AFAIK they are very picky about use of their trademarks. At least someone (Jack?) would have to ask Apple for the permission to use their logo (resp. a variation of it). But the icon /is/ cool! I like it. ciao Martina From larry.bugbee at boeing.com Tue Nov 4 16:34:42 2003 From: larry.bugbee at boeing.com (Bugbee, Larry) Date: Tue Nov 4 16:36:44 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux Message-ID: <8CFC81BC2CC2A74F88BAB7180F00B779023B7BB8@xch-nw-29.nw.nos.boeing.com> -----Original Message----- From: Eric Nieuwland [mailto:eric.nieuwland@xs4all.nl] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 1:23 PM To: Bugbee, Larry Cc: Python Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux On 4-nov-03, at 22:13, Bugbee, Larry wrote: First, I want to pass on Kudos to the artist. The quality is good. Unfortunately... I don't think this logo would be in Python's best interest and there are a number that would agree. Please remember that we are trying to *promote* Python, or at a minimum, convey a positive feeling towards Python, and that goal will not be realized if there is a sizable community with a strong aversion. ...whether some feel that behavior is immature or otherwise. Something less divisive would be better. OK. You've got a point. Let's ask Bob whether the artist could replace the apple by a MacPlus. Would that do? Huh? I don't understand your comment. ...so I guess the answer is no. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031104/47199d8b/attachment.html From jhrsn at pitt.edu Tue Nov 4 16:39:01 2003 From: jhrsn at pitt.edu (Jim Harrison) Date: Tue Nov 4 16:39:09 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <8CFC81BC2CC2A74F88BAB7180F00B77902ED7AA9@xch-nw-29.nw.nos.boeing.com> Message-ID: In the spirit of 1) apple/Mac, 2) obscure icons, 3) Monty Python bizarreness and 4) taking peoples minds off of spiders and snakes, how about switching to logo to an apple pie wrapped in a thong? [duck] [hide] JH From jmillr at umich.edu Tue Nov 4 16:43:46 2003 From: jmillr at umich.edu (John Miller) Date: Tue Nov 4 16:43:50 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Pythonmac-SIG Digest, Vol 7, Issue 12 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 04:29 PM, Glenn Andreas wrote: > For a different idea, what about a "grail"? It would be both a Monty > Python reference (probably more recognizable than the 10-ton weight, > since Wile E. Coyote is also hit by weights like that), as well as > something that has connotations of something "really good" (which > Python of course is). It would also be a "real world" sort of object > that tends to look good as aqua icons. Fwiw, I like this idea better than the '>>>' or [~~~~] I suggested earlier. (Maybe put 'container' symbols on the grail: (), [], {}, ''', """.) John Miller From eric.nieuwland at xs4all.nl Tue Nov 4 16:46:25 2003 From: eric.nieuwland at xs4all.nl (Eric Nieuwland) Date: Tue Nov 4 16:46:33 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <8CFC81BC2CC2A74F88BAB7180F00B779023B7BB8@xch-nw-29.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <8CFC81BC2CC2A74F88BAB7180F00B779023B7BB8@xch-nw-29.nw.nos.boeing.com> Message-ID: <56AC52EA-0F10-11D8-80B8-000393894CEA@xs4all.nl> >> OK. You've got a point. >> Let's ask Bob whether the artist could replace the apple by a >> MacPlus. Would that do??? > ? > Huh?? I don't understand your comment.? ...so I guess the answer is no. What I was trying to say is: This is *Mac*Python, right? So I'd like some reference to the Mac part as well. I know Apple has stong objections to using images of its hardware. But I think that refers mostly to current hardware. Besides, an image of the MacPlus is also in the standard Visio library and Visio is a MicroS**** product. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 825 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031104/46f96415/attachment.bin From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Tue Nov 4 16:49:08 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Tue Nov 4 16:49:14 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Incorrect entry about tkinter on apple website? In-Reply-To: <42C32800-0EE0-11D8-896F-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl> References: <42C32800-0EE0-11D8-896F-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl> Message-ID: On 4-nov-03, at 17:02, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > I noticed the following on > http://developer.apple.com/unix/toolkits.html: > >> TkInter >> Tkinter is Python's de-facto standard GUI (Graphical User Interface) >> package. It is a thin object-oriented layer on top of Tcl/Tk, and is >> the most commonly used toolkit for Python, as well as one of the most >> portable (though see also WxWindows, below). It does not require you >> to write Tcl, but you may need to refer to the Tcl/Tk documentation. >> While available for X11 on Mac OS X, noone has yet integrated the >> Aqua version of Tcl/Tk with Tkinter. > > Doesn't PackMan include a package for tkinter that integrates with the > Aqua Tcl/Tk? I sent a message to the maintainer when I first saw the document (yesterday, I think?). -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Tue Nov 4 16:52:27 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Tue Nov 4 16:52:32 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issue In-Reply-To: <669065AE-0EF9-11D8-8CE3-0003939B59E8@blastradius.com> References: <669065AE-0EF9-11D8-8CE3-0003939B59E8@blastradius.com> Message-ID: <2E70E8C0-0F11-11D8-BAF4-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> On 4-nov-03, at 20:02, Dethe Elza wrote: > I did review a quite a number of the previous messages, but hadn't > gotten the importance of uninstalling. Things are better now, I think > the issues I still have are with the binary libraries provided by the > Pygames PackMan database, which I can take up with the maintainer. Where is this Pygames packman database? I think this is the first reference I've heard to it (or I saw it and forgot:-), and I wouldn't mind adding a reference to all PackMan databases with more than purely local significance to the packman page on www.python.org. -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From kevino at tulane.edu Tue Nov 4 16:52:59 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Tue Nov 4 16:58:02 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <8F522CF5-0F0E-11D8-9E7D-000A957DBE94@Oefelein.de> References: <51648009-0EEC-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <7F2F2664-0EF0-11D8-B158-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <44FD3025-0EF7-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <8F522CF5-0F0E-11D8-9E7D-000A957DBE94@Oefelein.de> Message-ID: <41709074-0F11-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Hi Martina, On Nov 4, 2003, at 1:33 PM, Martina Oefelein wrote: > Hi Kevin, > >> The Windows snake, the PyGame logo, and the 16-Ton icon (though an >> obscure reference) keep this feeling of playfulness/silliness > > for me those look just like icons from the old (Win95/MacOS7) days, > probably due to the limited color-depth and the primitive > checkerboard-dithering. > > Potential new users might think "this looks sooo old, does it run on > MacOS X at all or do I need MacOS Classic for it?" and turn away. True, I totally agree here. I'd like to see a OS X/XP style icon myself. I unfortunately don't have the graphic skills to make that happen. :-( >> - this new icon doesn't say "playful" or "light-hearted" at all. I >> don't associate it with my own experiences using Python. It makes me >> think 'tough' and 'dangerous', and I don't see why one would want to >> convey the Python software/community that way. > > Well, it should be possible to make a modern-looking icon which still > looks playful. > > On the other hand, the "tough" look somehow fits the "tough" look of > Panther and the G5. But I don't think we should defer to Apple too much for a logo because we're promoting Python. A Python icon/logo should remind me of Python, not Panther or the G5. Kevin From bob at redivi.com Tue Nov 4 17:06:02 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue Nov 4 17:06:21 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issue In-Reply-To: <2E70E8C0-0F11-11D8-BAF4-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> References: <669065AE-0EF9-11D8-8CE3-0003939B59E8@blastradius.com> <2E70E8C0-0F11-11D8-BAF4-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <1441E80C-0F13-11D8-B158-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 4, 2003, at 4:52 PM, Jack Jansen wrote: > > On 4-nov-03, at 20:02, Dethe Elza wrote: >> I did review a quite a number of the previous messages, but hadn't >> gotten the importance of uninstalling. Things are better now, I >> think the issues I still have are with the binary libraries provided >> by the Pygames PackMan database, which I can take up with the >> maintainer. > > Where is this Pygames packman database? I think this is the first > reference I've heard to it (or I saw it and forgot:-), and I wouldn't > mind adding a reference to all PackMan databases with more than purely > local significance to the packman page on www.python.org. It's my database, Dethe was referring to the fact that it is the only place to easily install the pygame module and its dependencies on OS X. There's a link to my database from the download page of pygame.org, which is unfortunately titled "Pygame OSX PackageManager Site - Prebuilt Pygame Packages", I'll email Pete sometime soon and ask him to change the text. -bob From larry.bugbee at boeing.com Tue Nov 4 17:08:14 2003 From: larry.bugbee at boeing.com (Bugbee, Larry) Date: Tue Nov 4 17:10:42 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux Message-ID: <8CFC81BC2CC2A74F88BAB7180F00B77902ED7AB8@xch-nw-29.nw.nos.boeing.com> I think the 'Grail' idea is worth pursuing.... fm Miriam-Webster: 1: the cup or platter used, according to medieval legend, by Christ at the Last Supper and thereafter the object of knightly quests 2: the object of an extended or difficult quest >From Google, here are some "grail" logos: http://www.csd.uwo.ca/research/grail/ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005O3VC Now, how can we make them cute? This one is cute for another reason... http://grail.sdsc.edu/ A good site that may give additional ideas. http://www.greatdreams.com/arthur.htm BTW, what does a "quest" look like? -----Original Message----- From: John Miller [mailto:jmillr@umich.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 1:44 PM To: pythonmac-sig@python.org Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Pythonmac-SIG Digest, Vol 7, Issue 12 On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 04:29 PM, Glenn Andreas wrote: > For a different idea, what about a "grail"? It would be both a Monty > Python reference (probably more recognizable than the 10-ton weight, > since Wile E. Coyote is also hit by weights like that), as well as > something that has connotations of something "really good" (which > Python of course is). It would also be a "real world" sort of object > that tends to look good as aqua icons. Fwiw, I like this idea better than the '>>>' or [~~~~] I suggested earlier. (Maybe put 'container' symbols on the grail: (), [], {}, ''', """.) John Miller _______________________________________________ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig From bob at redivi.com Tue Nov 4 17:11:07 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue Nov 4 17:11:35 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <56AC52EA-0F10-11D8-80B8-000393894CEA@xs4all.nl> References: <8CFC81BC2CC2A74F88BAB7180F00B779023B7BB8@xch-nw-29.nw.nos.boeing.com> <56AC52EA-0F10-11D8-80B8-000393894CEA@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: On Nov 4, 2003, at 4:46 PM, Eric Nieuwland wrote: >>> OK. You've got a point. >>> Let's ask Bob whether the artist could replace the apple by a >>> MacPlus. Would that do??? >> ? >> Huh?? I don't understand your comment.? ...so I guess the answer is >> no. > > What I was trying to say is: This is *Mac*Python, right? So I'd like > some reference to the Mac part as well. > I know Apple has stong objections to using images of its hardware. But > I think that refers mostly to current hardware. > Besides, an image of the MacPlus is also in the standard Visio library > and Visio is a MicroS**** product. I personally don't want it to have anything to do with a MacPlus. I never owned one, and I never liked MacOS prior to OS X (give me a command line or give me death). I switched to Apple (from Linux / Win32) because of OS X 10.1, the powerbook, and the fact that I could use popular proprietary software when I needed to. -bob From dethe.elza at blastradius.com Tue Nov 4 17:13:10 2003 From: dethe.elza at blastradius.com (Dethe Elza) Date: Tue Nov 4 17:13:18 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issue In-Reply-To: <2E70E8C0-0F11-11D8-BAF4-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> References: <669065AE-0EF9-11D8-8CE3-0003939B59E8@blastradius.com> <2E70E8C0-0F11-11D8-BAF4-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <138A2808-0F14-11D8-8CE3-0003939B59E8@blastradius.com> On 4-Nov-03, at 1:52 PM, Jack Jansen wrote: > Where is this Pygames packman database? I think this is the first > reference I've heard to it (or I saw it and forgot:-), and I wouldn't > mind adding a reference to all PackMan databases with more than purely > local significance to the packman page on www.python.org. The list is here: http://undefined.org/python/pimp/darwin-6.8-Power_Macintosh.plist I found it from a link at the Pygame site: http://www.pygame.org/download.shtml Which takes you to this page that desribes all the available packages: http://undefined.org/python/pimp/ The short form is: aeve (Apple Events), Authorization, bsddb, Cheetah, ctypes, IPython, LaunchServices, Lupy, M2Crypto, metakit, ming, ModelingCore, mxBase, MySQL-python, NotificationFramework, numarray, numarray-addons, Numeric, piddle, PIL, PyChecker, pycrypto, pycurl, pygame, pygsear, Pyndex, PyObjC, PyOpenGL, pyOpenSSL, pyPgSQL, Pyrex, Pyro, pyRXP, python-ldap, python-lzo, PythonCardPrototype, PyXML, Quotient, ReportLab, Reverend, sdl_pygame_deps, tables, TECManager, Twisted, wxPythonOSX, ZODB3. *whew* Lots of good stuff here. The versions of PyOpenGL, Numeric, and one other (PIL?) are newer than those included with PackMan. Once I got past the glitches with old versions of Python, what I've tried from it has worked great. One issue with PackMan: The list is so long that I have to scroll, but the scrollbar keeps snapping back to the top, so I have to expand the window to hold the whole list if I want to see what I'm installing. --Dethe "Trusting a scientist on questions of metaphysics is like paying someone else to worship God for you." -- Bill Welton From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Tue Nov 4 17:16:45 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Tue Nov 4 17:16:54 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93AB1536-0F14-11D8-BAF4-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Another strong point in favor of this logo is that it's the first non-Monty-Python one that I would seriously consider:-) My reasoning is somewhat like this: - Having a snake would strengthen the connection between MacPython and the other Pythons. - Having a beautiful photo-realistic snake would strengthen the connection between MacPython and the Macintosh. This image also has two important strong points: it's width and height are about the same (making it easy to incorporate in other icons) and moreover it wraps something (giving us yet another class of icons to create). One technical issue is copyright: would the artist be willing to hand over copyright to the PSF? In return I'd be more than willing to add a page "the MacPython logo" to the website, with proper attribution of the logo and a link to his website, etc. As to people afraid of snakes: unless a majority (or a sizeable minority) of the people here agree that this is a problem I think we shouldn't let this stop us (Sorry Kevin!!!). And: the snake isn't all *that* realistic... Hmm, a compromise I'd be open to is if the artist added Guido's glasses to the snake, would that be doable? As to that-type-of-christians taking offense (with the emphasis on "that-type-of": 99% of the christians wouldn't, I'm pretty sure): no problem, they're not using macs. See for details. WARNING: don't follow that URL unless you have a fair amount of spare time available. It's addictive, and there's lots of good stuff on that site and others near it. -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From berkowit at silcom.com Tue Nov 4 17:17:42 2003 From: berkowit at silcom.com (Paul Berkowitz) Date: Tue Nov 4 17:17:47 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <305C8DAA-0F0C-11D8-9E7D-000A957DBE94@Oefelein.de> Message-ID: On 11/4/03 1:16 PM, "Martina Oefelein" wrote: >> I've seen very few icons (if any) which use the Apple logo in them. > > Isn't one reason for the lack of Apple logo in icons that Apple doesn't > allow using their logo? AFAIK they are very picky about use of their > trademarks. Right. You're forbidden to use the word "Apple" or the Apple icon in any 3rd-party material. "Mac" is OK. Note the names of all the Mac magazines. Never "Apple". > > At least someone (Jack?) would have to ask Apple for the permission to > use their logo (resp. a variation of it). > > But the icon /is/ cool! I like it. -- Paul Berkowitz From berkowit at silcom.com Tue Nov 4 17:18:58 2003 From: berkowit at silcom.com (Paul Berkowitz) Date: Tue Nov 4 17:19:02 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <8F522CF5-0F0E-11D8-9E7D-000A957DBE94@Oefelein.de> Message-ID: On 11/4/03 1:33 PM, "Martina Oefelein" wrote: > >> The Windows snake, the PyGame logo, and the 16-Ton icon (though an >> obscure reference) keep this feeling of playfulness/silliness > > for me those look just like icons from the old (Win95/MacOS7) days, > probably due to the limited color-depth and the primitive > checkerboard-dithering. > > Potential new users might think "this looks sooo old, does it run on > MacOS X at all or do I need MacOS Classic for it?" and turn away. Agreed. -- Paul Berkowitz From berkowit at silcom.com Tue Nov 4 17:23:39 2003 From: berkowit at silcom.com (Paul Berkowitz) Date: Tue Nov 4 17:23:44 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <93AB1536-0F14-11D8-BAF4-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: On 11/4/03 2:16 PM, "Jack Jansen" wrote: > Hmm, a compromise I'd be open to is if the artist > added Guido's glasses to the snake, would that be doable? I like that one ,,, sort of adds the Monty Python touch in its wit without being any sort of direct reference. -- Paul Berkowitz From bob at redivi.com Tue Nov 4 17:34:22 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue Nov 4 17:34:39 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <93AB1536-0F14-11D8-BAF4-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> References: <93AB1536-0F14-11D8-BAF4-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <09C40F1E-0F17-11D8-B158-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 4, 2003, at 5:16 PM, Jack Jansen wrote: > Another strong point in favor of this logo is that it's the first > non-Monty-Python one that I would seriously consider:-) > > My reasoning is somewhat like this: > - Having a snake would strengthen the connection between MacPython and > the other Pythons. > - Having a beautiful photo-realistic snake would strengthen the > connection between MacPython and the Macintosh. Same here. > This image also has two important strong points: it's width and height > are about the same (making it easy to incorporate in other icons) and > moreover it wraps something (giving us yet another class of icons to > create). That was the intent really. It's only using part of an apple-like-logo, that was done from scratch and doesn't include the bite, so it's at least questionable (to me) as to whether or not we're really swimming in trademark waters. Besides, http://apple.slashdot.org/ (and similar sites) use far more obviously close-to-infringing-Apple-trademark/copyright icons on its site, and AFAIK none of them pay royalties or have been sued. If we get some sort of official request from Apple to put something else there, we certainly can. This logo is for MacPython (or specifically, pythonmac.org if it's denied ubiquity), not for the launcher or IDE or python source files, etc... so the whole point of it is to say "Python on the Mac". When it's sitting in a user's Dock, the snake will probably be wrapped around something appropriate to the action it's performing.. however on the internet, not everyone uses a Mac, so it's not immediately obvious. > One technical issue is copyright: would the artist be willing to hand > over copyright to the PSF? In return I'd be more than willing to add a > page "the MacPython logo" to the website, with proper attribution of > the logo and a link to his website, etc. Yeah, he should be cool with it, the logo was a favor for me. > As to people afraid of snakes: unless a majority (or a sizeable > minority) of the people here agree that this is a problem I think we > shouldn't let this stop us (Sorry Kevin!!!). And: the snake isn't all > *that* realistic... Hmm, a compromise I'd be open to is if the artist > added Guido's glasses to the snake, would that be doable? I think the glasses would make it even harder to work at small resolution. Perhaps a different color treatment would make it friendlier, or removing the scales? > As to that-type-of-christians taking offense (with the emphasis on > "that-type-of": 99% of the christians wouldn't, I'm pretty sure): no > problem, they're not using macs. See > for details. WARNING: > don't follow that URL unless you have a fair amount of spare time > available. It's addictive, and there's lots of good stuff on that site > and others near it. That is such an amusing site, I've stumbled upon it before :) -bob From israel at sandlotgames.com Tue Nov 4 17:39:44 2003 From: israel at sandlotgames.com (Israel C. Evans) Date: Tue Nov 4 17:40:08 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan issue In-Reply-To: <138A2808-0F14-11D8-8CE3-0003939B59E8@blastradius.com> Message-ID: I kept getting errors on this one when opening up the pimp database on http://undefined.org/python/pimp/darwin-6.8-Power_Macintosh.plist ------------------------------------- ---- tables-0.7.1-binary: install test got exception ---- source: import tables if tables.__version__ < '0.7.1': raise OldInstalled, "Version %s installed" % tables.__version__ ---- exception: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/plat- mac/pimp.py", line 454, in installed exec installTest in namespace File "", line 2, in ? AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute '__version__' ---- Please copy this and mail to bob@redivi.com On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 02:13 PM, Dethe Elza wrote: > On 4-Nov-03, at 1:52 PM, Jack Jansen wrote: >> Where is this Pygames packman database? I think this is the first >> reference I've heard to it (or I saw it and forgot:-), and I wouldn't >> mind adding a reference to all PackMan databases with more than >> purely local significance to the packman page on www.python.org. > > The list is here: > > http://undefined.org/python/pimp/darwin-6.8-Power_Macintosh.plist > > I found it from a link at the Pygame site: > > http://www.pygame.org/download.shtml > > Which takes you to this page that desribes all the available packages: > > http://undefined.org/python/pimp/ > > The short form is: aeve (Apple Events), Authorization, bsddb, > Cheetah, ctypes, IPython, LaunchServices, Lupy, M2Crypto, metakit, > ming, ModelingCore, mxBase, MySQL-python, NotificationFramework, > numarray, numarray-addons, Numeric, piddle, PIL, PyChecker, pycrypto, > pycurl, pygame, pygsear, Pyndex, PyObjC, PyOpenGL, pyOpenSSL, pyPgSQL, > Pyrex, Pyro, pyRXP, python-ldap, python-lzo, PythonCardPrototype, > PyXML, Quotient, ReportLab, Reverend, sdl_pygame_deps, tables, > TECManager, Twisted, wxPythonOSX, ZODB3. > > *whew* > > Lots of good stuff here. The versions of PyOpenGL, Numeric, and one > other (PIL?) are newer than those included with PackMan. Once I got > past the glitches with old versions of Python, what I've tried from it > has worked great. > > One issue with PackMan: The list is so long that I have to scroll, but > the scrollbar keeps snapping back to the top, so I have to expand the > window to hold the whole list if I want to see what I'm installing. > > --Dethe > > "Trusting a scientist on questions of metaphysics is like paying > someone else to worship God for you." -- Bill Welton > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > > ~Israel~ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2727 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031104/2ec99312/attachment.bin From kevino at tulane.edu Tue Nov 4 17:39:56 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Tue Nov 4 17:44:58 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <8CFC81BC2CC2A74F88BAB7180F00B77902ED7AB8@xch-nw-29.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <8CFC81BC2CC2A74F88BAB7180F00B77902ED7AB8@xch-nw-29.nw.nos.boeing.com> Message-ID: Hi, IMHO the grail idea would be a cool one, especially given the OS X-style icon treatment. (Bright gold, some jewelry and embellishment, realistic but not photorealistic design.) I don't think it needs to be cute, instead it should look perfect and maybe a *little* ornate, like the Grail would. This at least does emphasize another aspect I like about Python - the quest for the perfect programming language/CP4E. And yes, we get the Monty Python reference too! In that sense, the icon is almost ideal, except that it loses the snake reference on other platforms. (Though with a cool icon I think the other platforms may even switch...) Kevin On Nov 4, 2003, at 2:08 PM, Bugbee, Larry wrote: > I think the 'Grail' idea is worth pursuing.... > > fm Miriam-Webster: > 1: the cup or platter used, according to medieval > legend, by Christ at the Last Supper and thereafter > the object of knightly quests > 2: the object of an extended or difficult quest > >> From Google, here are some "grail" logos: > http://www.csd.uwo.ca/research/grail/ > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005O3VC > > Now, how can we make them cute? > > This one is cute for another reason... > http://grail.sdsc.edu/ > > A good site that may give additional ideas. > http://www.greatdreams.com/arthur.htm > > BTW, what does a "quest" look like? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Miller [mailto:jmillr@umich.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 1:44 PM > To: pythonmac-sig@python.org > Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Pythonmac-SIG Digest, Vol 7, Issue 12 > > > > On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 04:29 PM, Glenn Andreas > wrote: >> For a different idea, what about a "grail"? It would be both a Monty >> Python reference (probably more recognizable than the 10-ton weight, >> since Wile E. Coyote is also hit by weights like that), as well as >> something that has connotations of something "really good" (which >> Python of course is). It would also be a "real world" sort of object >> that tends to look good as aqua icons. > > Fwiw, I like this idea better than the '>>>' or [~~~~] I suggested > earlier. (Maybe put 'container' symbols on the grail: (), [], {}, ''', > """.) > > John Miller > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > From jmillr at umich.edu Tue Nov 4 18:06:12 2003 From: jmillr at umich.edu (John Miller) Date: Tue Nov 4 18:06:17 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7C1F0A8E-0F1B-11D8-8541-00039303967A@umich.edu> I'd like to clarify a bit. The context of my initial endorsement of the grail was as a replacement for the apple in the center of the original image. So I was imagining a logo much like the current one, but with a snake wrapped around a grail (as if to suggest that Python *has found* the missing grail). Subsequent suggestions appear to endorse the idea of a standalone grail, sans snake. Personally, I'm in favor of either idea. I just don't like the apple in the icon. John On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 05:39 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: > Hi, > > IMHO the grail idea would be a cool one, especially given the OS > X-style icon treatment. (Bright gold, some jewelry and embellishment, > realistic but not photorealistic design.) I don't think it needs to be > cute, instead it should look perfect and maybe a *little* ornate, like > the Grail would. This at least does emphasize another aspect I like > about Python - the quest for the perfect programming language/CP4E. > And yes, we get the Monty Python reference too! In that sense, the > icon is almost ideal, except that it loses the snake reference on > other platforms. (Though with a cool icon I think the other platforms > may even switch...) > > Kevin >> On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 04:29 PM, Glenn Andreas >> wrote: >>> For a different idea, what about a "grail"? It would be both a Monty >>> Python reference (probably more recognizable than the 10-ton weight, >>> since Wile E. Coyote is also hit by weights like that), as well as >>> something that has connotations of something "really good" (which >>> Python of course is). It would also be a "real world" sort of object >>> that tends to look good as aqua icons. >> >> Fwiw, I like this idea better than the '>>>' or [~~~~] I suggested >> earlier. (Maybe put 'container' symbols on the grail: (), [], {}, ''', >> """.) >> >> John Miller From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Tue Nov 4 18:35:14 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Tue Nov 4 18:35:37 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <7C1F0A8E-0F1B-11D8-8541-00039303967A@umich.edu> References: <7C1F0A8E-0F1B-11D8-8541-00039303967A@umich.edu> Message-ID: <8A7EE9FE-0F1F-11D8-BAF4-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> On 5-nov-03, at 0:06, John Miller wrote: > Personally, I'm in favor of either idea. I just don't like the apple > in the icon. Well, I think Bob had a neat solution here: use the apple only where it makes sense. This would be the website, and maybe the installer. There it communicates "This is for Python, this is for a Macintosh". The normal on-disk icons would have the snake wrapping something else, or the snake on top of something (IDE: snake wrapping a document. .py file: document with a small snake on it. etc). -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From kevino at tulane.edu Tue Nov 4 18:37:49 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Tue Nov 4 18:42:50 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <93AB1536-0F14-11D8-BAF4-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> References: <93AB1536-0F14-11D8-BAF4-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: Hi Jack, On Nov 4, 2003, at 2:16 PM, Jack Jansen wrote: > Another strong point in favor of this logo is that it's the first > non-Monty-Python one that I would seriously consider:-) > > My reasoning is somewhat like this: > - Having a snake would strengthen the connection between MacPython and > the other Pythons. > - Having a beautiful photo-realistic snake would strengthen the > connection between MacPython and the Macintosh. > > This image also has two important strong points: it's width and height > are about the same (making it easy to incorporate in other icons) and > moreover it wraps something (giving us yet another class of icons to > create). It's more the depiction of the snake in this icon which bothers me rather than the fact there is a snake in it. (I would not be adverse to a snake logo, in fact I'm in favor of one for consistency.) The point I have been trying to make is that photorealistic snakes scare people because the photo-realism emphasizes that this is a real snake, and brings the same connotations as real snakes. (dangerous, creepy, etc.) I'd bet many people on this list also feel that way about snakes - its just that it doesn't bother them. (Or in fact they think that kind of image is cool. =) > One technical issue is copyright: would the artist be willing to hand > over copyright to the PSF? In return I'd be more than willing to add a > page "the MacPython logo" to the website, with proper attribution of > the logo and a link to his website, etc. > > As to people afraid of snakes: unless a majority (or a sizeable > minority) of the people here agree that this is a problem I think we > shouldn't let this stop us (Sorry Kevin!!!). And: the snake isn't all > *that* realistic... Hmm, a compromise I'd be open to is if the artist > added Guido's glasses to the snake, would that be doable? I'm just saying that icon design should not only accommodate people who are currently using the software, but also try to accommodate anyone who might want to use the software in the future. A neutral icon that everyone can live with is much better than an icon that 80% of people love and 20% of people hate or are bothered by - because the software itself is more important than its icon. You're trying to get people to use the software, so any icon that could get in the way of that (even for a minority of people) is probably doing more harm than good. After all, the weight icon isn't anything amazing, but I don't see anyone saying that they find anything spooky or creepy about it. ;-) Some people, however, may not want pictures (or photo-realistic art) of snakes or bugs or things that go bump in the night floating around their desktop. And BTW I do potentially include children in that, thinking along the lines of CP4E. As for a compromise on the snake, glasses are a thought, but I'd go for a simpler color scheme which would at least remove the black splotches on the snake's skin, maybe move to a green color to match with the Windows icon. It doesn't need to have a thick, bulky body either - yes I know Pythons have this, but again I don't think realism is always a good thing in icon design. > As to that-type-of-christians taking offense (with the emphasis on > "that-type-of": 99% of the christians wouldn't, I'm pretty sure): no > problem, they're not using macs. See > for details. WARNING: > don't follow that URL unless you have a fair amount of spare time > available. It's addictive, and there's lots of good stuff on that site > and others near it. I've seen that one before, and it's quite funny. ;-) However, I went through 12 years of Catholic school, and regardless of my knowing better, I do clearly see the Biblical reference. I don't find it offensive - I honestly don't particularly care - but I guess I've got a silly philosophy that if one can avoid offending people or giving the wrong impression, one should try their best to do so. (Of course then I open my big mouth and there goes that idea...! ;-) I think it's more work, which is what turns most people off to the idea , but in the end the result is a better product. At the very least I would change the icon to use Apple's own Panther brushed-metal "apple" which would make people see it more as a reference to "Apple computer" rather than a generic apple - and you may want to consult with Apple about this anyways, now that the framework build and Pythonw are being included with Python. They will run into the icon issue when upgrading to 10.4 or whatever anyways. I do think they will be more picky about software that goes into their OS than they would about their logo appearing on Slashdot. =) Kevin From gbs at k9haven.com Tue Nov 4 22:41:33 2003 From: gbs at k9haven.com (George B. Smith) Date: Tue Nov 4 22:41:41 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <93AB1536-0F14-11D8-BAF4-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: First let me say that while I am only learning Python, I do think Python is a great language and that MacPython is a great piece of software! Up to this point, I have only been a lurker, just trying to learn from all the great info on the list. But I feel compelled to say something about this proposed logo. And you can just take this as a data point: I can't stand snakes, they creep me out, and I agree with Kevin that a photo-realistic depiction of a snake is not my idea of a great logo. In my experience, a lot of people are creeped out by snakes. I agree with Kevin that a strategy of *positively* attracting a lot of people to a product would not involve a photo-realistic snake strangling the guts out of an object. However, if the snake was cutened up, like the "Tux" penguin from Linux is a cute representation of a real penguin, then I think it would be fine to include a snake. Cuteness is cool, stark realism is not, IMO. gbs PS: I don't agree with Jack that it is not photo-realistic - I think the artist did a *way* too good a job of making it look like a real snake! :-) On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 02:16 PM, Jack Jansen wrote: > Another strong point in favor of this logo is that it's the first > non-Monty-Python one that I would seriously consider:-) > > My reasoning is somewhat like this: > - Having a snake would strengthen the connection between MacPython and > the other Pythons. > - Having a beautiful photo-realistic snake would strengthen the > connection between MacPython and the Macintosh. > > This image also has two important strong points: it's width and height > are about the same (making it easy to incorporate in other icons) and > moreover it wraps something (giving us yet another class of icons to > create). > > One technical issue is copyright: would the artist be willing to hand > over copyright to the PSF? In return I'd be more than willing to add a > page "the MacPython logo" to the website, with proper attribution of > the logo and a link to his website, etc. > > As to people afraid of snakes: unless a majority (or a sizeable > minority) of the people here agree that this is a problem I think we > shouldn't let this stop us (Sorry Kevin!!!). And: the snake isn't all > *that* realistic... Hmm, a compromise I'd be open to is if the artist > added Guido's glasses to the snake, would that be doable? > > As to that-type-of-christians taking offense (with the emphasis on > "that-type-of": 99% of the christians wouldn't, I'm pretty sure): no > problem, they're not using macs. See > for details. WARNING: > don't follow that URL unless you have a fair amount of spare time > available. It's addictive, and there's lots of good stuff on that site > and others near it. > -- > Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack > If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma > Goldman > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > From israel at sandlotgames.com Wed Nov 5 00:06:39 2003 From: israel at sandlotgames.com (Israel C. Evans) Date: Wed Nov 5 00:06:50 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Heresss voting fffor the ssssnakessss... I do agree that a happy snake icon could work to unify the macpython icon with the elsewhere python icons and not overly creep out those with aversions to limbless reptiles, but why stop there? What exactly is the reason that MacPython needs it's own icon seperate from the windows and unix worlds? Wouldn't an aquafication of the windows and unix standard icon be in order? Or is there a reason to establish macPython as a unique and separate entity other than to recognize the immense amounts of work done by Jack and Crew? Personally even though it has no relation to anything other than a monty python reference, I'd prefer an updating of the current weight icon. I do have to admit it turned me off at first coming as I did from Windows and made me doubt the polish of it on Mac OS X. I've always wondered why it was different and couldn't see quite the reason behind it. Anyway.. there's my 2 pounds worth of beads and trinkets on the matter. ~Israel~ On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 07:41 PM, George B. Smith wrote: > First let me say that while I am only learning Python, I do think > Python is a great language and that MacPython is a great piece of > software! Up to this point, I have only been a lurker, just > trying to learn from all the great info on the list. But I feel > compelled to say something about this proposed logo. > > And you can just take this as a data point: I can't stand snakes, > they creep me out, and I agree with Kevin that a photo-realistic > depiction of a snake is not my idea of a great logo. In my > experience, a lot of people are creeped out by snakes. I agree > with Kevin that a strategy of *positively* attracting a lot of > people to a product would not involve a photo-realistic snake > strangling the guts out of an object. However, if the snake > was cutened up, like the "Tux" penguin from Linux is a cute > representation of a real penguin, then I think it would be fine > to include a snake. Cuteness is cool, stark realism is not, IMO. > > gbs > > PS: I don't agree with Jack that it is not photo-realistic - > I think the artist did a *way* too good a job of making it > look like a real snake! :-) > > > On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 02:16 PM, Jack Jansen wrote: > >> Another strong point in favor of this logo is that it's the first >> non-Monty-Python one that I would seriously consider:-) >> >> My reasoning is somewhat like this: >> - Having a snake would strengthen the connection between MacPython >> and the other Pythons. >> - Having a beautiful photo-realistic snake would strengthen the >> connection between MacPython and the Macintosh. >> >> This image also has two important strong points: it's width and >> height are about the same (making it easy to incorporate in other >> icons) and moreover it wraps something (giving us yet another class >> of icons to create). >> >> One technical issue is copyright: would the artist be willing to hand >> over copyright to the PSF? In return I'd be more than willing to add >> a page "the MacPython logo" to the website, with proper attribution >> of the logo and a link to his website, etc. >> >> As to people afraid of snakes: unless a majority (or a sizeable >> minority) of the people here agree that this is a problem I think we >> shouldn't let this stop us (Sorry Kevin!!!). And: the snake isn't all >> *that* realistic... Hmm, a compromise I'd be open to is if the artist >> added Guido's glasses to the snake, would that be doable? >> >> As to that-type-of-christians taking offense (with the emphasis on >> "that-type-of": 99% of the christians wouldn't, I'm pretty sure): no >> problem, they're not using macs. See >> for details. WARNING: >> don't follow that URL unless you have a fair amount of spare time >> available. It's addictive, and there's lots of good stuff on that >> site and others near it. >> -- >> Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack >> If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma >> Goldman >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > > ~Israel~ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 4416 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031104/4f8e8c49/attachment.bin From mwh at python.net Wed Nov 5 07:39:29 2003 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Wed Nov 5 07:39:32 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: (Bob Ippolito's message of "Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:33:48 -0500") References: Message-ID: <2mekwn0z26.fsf@starship.python.net> Bob Ippolito writes: > Sorry to bring this up.. but it took a couple months to get this :) > > I had my roommate ( Evan Mathis - http://www.morevisual.com/ ) come up > with a new MacPython logo: > http://undefined.org/python/py_mac-sq-256.png (the original is > in Photoshop format, and is much higher resolution than this) > I like it. I'm not sure if you were asking for suggestions but if the snake was made a little more cartoony and a little thinner, I'd like it even more... Cheers, mwh -- ARTHUR: The ravenours bugblatter beast of Traal ... is it safe? FORD: Oh yes, it's perfectly safe ... it's just us who are in trouble. -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 6 From alexis.layton at post.harvard.edu Wed Nov 5 09:19:50 2003 From: alexis.layton at post.harvard.edu (Alexis Layton) Date: Wed Nov 5 09:19:57 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1DCBAB54-0F9B-11D8-B37C-000A957D895E@post.harvard.edu> On Tuesday, Nov 4, 2003, at 11:33 US/Eastern, Bob Ippolito wrote: > Sorry to bring this up.. but it took a couple months to get this :) > > I had my roommate ( Evan Mathis - http://www.morevisual.com/ ) come up > with a new MacPython logo: > http://undefined.org/python/py_mac-sq-256.png (the original is in > Photoshop format, and is much higher resolution than this) > > -bob I think the snake needs to be "cuter" to be acceptable to some people. I have no problem with snakes myself. Of course, maybe it should be Eric Idle or John Cleese hugging the apple.... :-) ---- Alexis Layton 2130 Massachusetts Ave. Apt. 6E Cambridge, MA 02140-1917 alexis.layton@post.harvard.edu From drewmccormack at mac.com Wed Nov 5 10:33:39 2003 From: drewmccormack at mac.com (Drew McCormack) Date: Wed Nov 5 10:34:02 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <1DCBAB54-0F9B-11D8-B37C-000A957D895E@post.harvard.edu> References: <1DCBAB54-0F9B-11D8-B37C-000A957D895E@post.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <6DE5A408-0FA5-11D8-A9C3-00039363BC02@mac.com> On Nov 5, 2003, at 3:19 PM, Alexis Layton wrote: > > On Tuesday, Nov 4, 2003, at 11:33 US/Eastern, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> Sorry to bring this up.. but it took a couple months to get this :) >> >> I had my roommate ( Evan Mathis - http://www.morevisual.com/ ) come >> up with a new MacPython logo: >> http://undefined.org/python/py_mac-sq-256.png (the original is in >> Photoshop format, and is much higher resolution than this) >> >> -bob > > I think the snake needs to be "cuter" to be acceptable to some people. > I have no problem with snakes myself. Of course, maybe it should be > Eric Idle or John Cleese hugging the apple.... :-) The one symbol I have always associated with monty python is that massive cartoon foot that squashes everything. I can't believe that is not used by anyone. To be honest, I don't even know where the 16 ton weight comes from. I'm no monty python expert, just a normal joe, but I thought I would know the most well-known stuff, and the weight doesn't ring any bells. My vote is for a big terry-gilliam foot squashing or kicking a photo realistic apple (not an apple logo). Drew ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Drew McCormack Trade Strategist - Stock market strategy design platform for Mac OS X http://www.trade-strategist.com From jpetrone at cnri.reston.va.us Wed Nov 5 11:42:42 2003 From: jpetrone at cnri.reston.va.us (Jason Petrone) Date: Wed Nov 5 11:42:48 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <5308AB00-0F0B-11D8-80B8-000393894CEA@xs4all.nl> References: <5308AB00-0F0B-11D8-80B8-000393894CEA@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20031105164242.GF1818@cnri.reston.va.us> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 10:10:31PM +0100, W.H.Offenbach wrote: > On 4-nov-03, at 22:05, John Miller wrote: > > >On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 03:52 PM, W.H.Offenbach wrote: > > > >>>I don't terribly object to the snake, and prefer a stylized one to a > >>>photorealistic one, but I think we may unnecessarily push some > >>>people's buttons by placing a snake in such close proximity to an > >>>apple (biblical fall from grace story). > >> > >>With all due respect, the fall from grace followed when A&E became > >>aware, started to know. > >>Besides, the bible doesn't say "apple" it just mentions "fruit". > >>Making it an apple is man's invention (either by tradition or > >>translation), not the snake's. > > > >Yes, I agree. It's just that the proximity of the snake and the apple > >in the graphic is suggestive of the story and may cause unnecessary > >avoidance by some. ("Lead us not into temptation...") Also, the use of > >an apple in an app's icon, as others have said, is somewhat redundant > >on a Macintosh and is not very common. > > When it comes to programming, I want to be tempted. To use Python, that > is ;-) Yes, if anything I think the biblical imagery makes it even cooler. It bestows a mystical quality to python that I certainly feel when I use it. But of course, I don't have any religious sensitivities. What I *don't* feel when I use python is the silliness and absurdity I associate with Monty Python. In fact, I don't find python absurd at all. Definition of absurd: 1 : ridiculously unreasonable, unsound, or incongruous 2 : having no rational or orderly relationship to human life : MEANINGLESS; also : lacking order or value jlp From amundsen463 at yahoo.com Wed Nov 5 12:05:22 2003 From: amundsen463 at yahoo.com (Craig Amundsen) Date: Wed Nov 5 12:05:31 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <6DE5A408-0FA5-11D8-A9C3-00039363BC02@mac.com> Message-ID: <20031105170522.36592.qmail@web80010.mail.yahoo.com> Hi - Just to toss in some un-needed (Monty) Python trivia. The 16 ton weight is most likely a reference to the Self Defense skit wherein the instructor has the students attack him with pieces of fruit. He then defends himself by having a tiger kill the student, dropping a 16 ton weight on the student, etc. - Craig PS - I vote for a somewhat more cartoony snake. Drew McCormack wrote: The one symbol I have always associated with monty python is that massive cartoon foot that squashes everything. I can't believe that is not used by anyone. To be honest, I don't even know where the 16 ton weight comes from. I'm no monty python expert, just a normal joe, but I thought I would know the most well-known stuff, and the weight doesn't ring any bells. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031105/09175811/attachment.html From berkowit at silcom.com Wed Nov 5 13:44:46 2003 From: berkowit at silcom.com (Paul Berkowitz) Date: Wed Nov 5 13:44:55 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <20031105170522.36592.qmail@web80010.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Personally, although I love Monty Python and have for 30 years (and even live in the same town as John Cleese), it's old hat. Most people learning Python won't even know what it is. If they're curious about the name, they'll read about the derivation in any book, website, documentation, etc, they come upon. The various Monty icons and logos in use - such as the 16 ton weight - do look left over from OS 7. Get rid of them. The snake is a good, immediately recognizable image that relates to "Python". By all means make it less realistic - totemic is what we're looking for here. The one in the logo offered yesterday is very beautiful but does indeed look a little menacing. It's the eyes and head, IMO. So maybe the artist can make it more abstract and less scary. Maybe even "cute" ,although that could become dated too. Just more abstract would do fine. -- Paul Berkowitz From: Craig Amundsen Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:05:22 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux Hi - Just to toss in some un-needed (Monty) Python trivia. The 16 ton weight is most likely a reference to the Self Defense skit wherein the instructor has the students attack him with pieces of fruit. He then defends himself by having a tiger kill the student, dropping a 16 ton weight on the student, etc. - Craig PS - I vote for a somewhat more cartoony snake. Drew McCormack wrote: > The one symbol I have always associated with monty python is that > massive cartoon foot that squashes everything. I can't believe that is > not used by anyone. To be honest, I don't even know where the 16 ton > weight comes from. I'm no monty python expert, just a normal joe, but I > thought I would know the most well-known stuff, and the weight doesn't > ring any bells. _______________________________________________ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031105/01d5950d/attachment.html From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil Wed Nov 5 14:03:03 2003 From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Louis M. Pecora) Date: Wed Nov 5 14:02:52 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Personally, although I love Monty Python and have for 30 years (and >even live in the same town as John Cleese), it's old hat. Most >people learning Python won't even know what it is. If they're >curious about the name, they'll read about the derivation in any >book, website, documentation, etc, they come upon. The various >Monty icons and logos in use - such as the 16 ton weight - do look >left over from OS 7. Get rid of them. The snake is a good, >immediately recognizable image that relates to "Python". By all >means make it less realistic - totemic is what we're looking for >here. The one in the logo offered yesterday is very beautiful but >does indeed look a little menacing. It's the eyes and head, IMO. So >maybe the artist can make it more abstract and less scary. Maybe >even "cute" ,although that could become dated too. Just more >abstract would do fine. OK, compromise. What we need is a friendly, totemic, 16 ton snake. -- Cheers, Lou Pecora P.S. Monty will never be old hat, NEVER. You blaspheme! (OK, now where did I put that 'smiley"? ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031105/361ca806/attachment.html From kevino at tulane.edu Wed Nov 5 14:18:14 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Wed Nov 5 14:23:38 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, I found something on the web which may very well get voted down as too cute, but I think at least shows something close to the Windows icon both in design and in the feeling it conveys, and is aquafied. The nice thing about using this is that it would at least already exist, and we'd just need to ask permission from the designer to use it: http://www.zerobias.com/icons.htm Look at the snake in the "Glass animals" set. At the very least I think he looks friendly. =) Thanks, Kevin On Nov 5, 2003, at 10:44 AM, Paul Berkowitz wrote: > Personally, although I love Monty Python and have for 30 years (and > even live in the same town as John Cleese), it's old hat. Most people > learning Python won't even know what it is. If they're curious about > the name, they'll read about the derivation in any book, website, > documentation, etc, ?they come upon. The various Monty icons and logos > in use - such as the 16 ton weight - do look left over from OS 7. Get > rid of them. The snake is a good, immediately recognizable image that > relates to "Python". By all means make it less realistic - totemic is > what we're looking for here. The one in the logo offered yesterday is > very beautiful but does indeed look a little menacing. It's the eyes > and head, IMO. So maybe the artist can make it more abstract and less > scary. Maybe even "cute" ,although that could become dated too. Just > more abstract would do fine. > > -- > Paul Berkowitz > > > > From:Craig Amundsen > Date:Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:05:22 -0800 (PST) > To: > Subject:Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux > > Hi - > ? > Just to toss in some un-needed (Monty) Python trivia. The 16 ton > weight is most likely a reference to the Self Defense skit wherein the > instructor has the students attack him with pieces of fruit. He then > defends himself by having a tiger kill the student, dropping a 16 ton > weight on the student, etc. > ? > - Craig > ? > PS - I vote for a somewhat more cartoony snake. > > Drew McCormack wrote: > > The one symbol I have always associated with monty python is that > massive cartoon foot that squashes everything. I can't believe that is > not used by anyone. To be honest, I don't even know where the 16 ton > weight comes from. I'm no monty python expert, just a normal joe, but I > thought I would know the most well-known stuff, and the weight doesn't > ring any bells. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist ?- ?Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig From berkowit at silcom.com Wed Nov 5 14:33:36 2003 From: berkowit at silcom.com (Paul Berkowitz) Date: Wed Nov 5 14:33:39 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oy. NO. -- Paul Berkowitz > From: Kevin Ollivier > Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:18:14 -0800 > To: Paul Berkowitz > Cc: PythonMac > Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux > > Hi all, > > I found something on the web which may very well get voted down as too > cute, but I think at least shows something close to the Windows icon > both in design and in the feeling it conveys, and is aquafied. The nice > thing about using this is that it would at least already exist, and > we'd just need to ask permission from the designer to use it: > > http://www.zerobias.com/icons.htm > > Look at the snake in the "Glass animals" set. At the very least I think > he looks friendly. =) > > Thanks, > > Kevin > > On Nov 5, 2003, at 10:44 AM, Paul Berkowitz wrote: > >> Personally, although I love Monty Python and have for 30 years (and >> even live in the same town as John Cleese), it's old hat. Most people >> learning Python won't even know what it is. If they're curious about >> the name, they'll read about the derivation in any book, website, >> documentation, etc, ?they come upon. The various Monty icons and logos >> in use - such as the 16 ton weight - do look left over from OS 7. Get >> rid of them. The snake is a good, immediately recognizable image that >> relates to "Python". By all means make it less realistic - totemic is >> what we're looking for here. The one in the logo offered yesterday is >> very beautiful but does indeed look a little menacing. It's the eyes >> and head, IMO. So maybe the artist can make it more abstract and less >> scary. Maybe even "cute" ,although that could become dated too. Just >> more abstract would do fine. >> >> -- >> Paul Berkowitz >> >> >> >> From:Craig Amundsen >> Date:Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:05:22 -0800 (PST) >> To: >> Subject:Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux >> >> Hi - >> ? >> Just to toss in some un-needed (Monty) Python trivia. The 16 ton >> weight is most likely a reference to the Self Defense skit wherein the >> instructor has the students attack him with pieces of fruit. He then >> defends himself by having a tiger kill the student, dropping a 16 ton >> weight on the student, etc. >> ? >> - Craig >> ? >> PS - I vote for a somewhat more cartoony snake. >> >> Drew McCormack wrote: >> >> The one symbol I have always associated with monty python is that >> massive cartoon foot that squashes everything. I can't believe that is >> not used by anyone. To be honest, I don't even know where the 16 ton >> weight comes from. I'm no monty python expert, just a normal joe, but I >> thought I would know the most well-known stuff, and the weight doesn't >> ring any bells. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pythonmac-SIG maillist ?- ?Pythonmac-SIG@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig >> _______________________________________________ >> Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > From larry.bugbee at boeing.com Wed Nov 5 14:34:37 2003 From: larry.bugbee at boeing.com (Bugbee, Larry) Date: Wed Nov 5 14:36:49 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux Message-ID: <8CFC81BC2CC2A74F88BAB7180F00B779023B7BC3@xch-nw-29.nw.nos.boeing.com> I *like* her work. Perhaps we could ask Julia to do one just for us.... with attribution, of course. Larry -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Ollivier [mailto:kevino@tulane.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 11:18 AM To: Paul Berkowitz Cc: PythonMac Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux Hi all, I found something on the web which may very well get voted down as too cute, but I think at least shows something close to the Windows icon both in design and in the feeling it conveys, and is aquafied. The nice thing about using this is that it would at least already exist, and we'd just need to ask permission from the designer to use it: http://www.zerobias.com/icons.htm Look at the snake in the "Glass animals" set. At the very least I think he looks friendly. =) Thanks, Kevin On Nov 5, 2003, at 10:44 AM, Paul Berkowitz wrote: > Personally, although I love Monty Python and have for 30 years (and > even live in the same town as John Cleese), it's old hat. Most people > learning Python won't even know what it is. If they're curious about > the name, they'll read about the derivation in any book, website, > documentation, etc, ?they come upon. The various Monty icons and logos > in use - such as the 16 ton weight - do look left over from OS 7. Get > rid of them. The snake is a good, immediately recognizable image that > relates to "Python". By all means make it less realistic - totemic is > what we're looking for here. The one in the logo offered yesterday is > very beautiful but does indeed look a little menacing. It's the eyes > and head, IMO. So maybe the artist can make it more abstract and less > scary. Maybe even "cute" ,although that could become dated too. Just > more abstract would do fine. > > -- > Paul Berkowitz > > > > From:Craig Amundsen > Date:Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:05:22 -0800 (PST) > To: > Subject:Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux > > Hi - > ? > Just to toss in some un-needed (Monty) Python trivia. The 16 ton > weight is most likely a reference to the Self Defense skit wherein the > instructor has the students attack him with pieces of fruit. He then > defends himself by having a tiger kill the student, dropping a 16 ton > weight on the student, etc. > ? > - Craig > ? > PS - I vote for a somewhat more cartoony snake. > > Drew McCormack wrote: > > The one symbol I have always associated with monty python is that > massive cartoon foot that squashes everything. I can't believe that is > not used by anyone. To be honest, I don't even know where the 16 ton > weight comes from. I'm no monty python expert, just a normal joe, but I > thought I would know the most well-known stuff, and the weight doesn't > ring any bells. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist ?- ?Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig _______________________________________________ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig From who2guess at xs4all.nl Wed Nov 5 14:43:49 2003 From: who2guess at xs4all.nl (W.H.Offenbach) Date: Wed Nov 5 14:43:55 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <609262CB-0FC8-11D8-8B82-000393894CEA@xs4all.nl> Cute! On 5-nov-03, at 20:18, Kevin Ollivier wrote: > Hi all, > > I found something on the web which may very well get voted down as too > cute, but I think at least shows something close to the Windows icon > both in design and in the feeling it conveys, and is aquafied. The > nice thing about using this is that it would at least already exist, > and we'd just need to ask permission from the designer to use it: > > http://www.zerobias.com/icons.htm > > Look at the snake in the "Glass animals" set. At the very least I > think he looks friendly. =) > > Thanks, > > Kevin From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil Wed Nov 5 14:48:55 2003 From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Louis M. Pecora) Date: Wed Nov 5 14:48:50 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: <3FA94D6C.2DCA4030@pobox.com> References: <3FA94D6C.2DCA4030@pobox.com> Message-ID: > > OK, compromise. What we need is a friendly, totemic, 16 ton snake. > >With a big foot that squashes things? Sort of an upside-down Trogdor... Excellent. I second this. -- Cheers, Lou Pecora From Layne.Bilyeu at robbstucky.net Wed Nov 5 15:48:07 2003 From: Layne.Bilyeu at robbstucky.net (AdvertisingDept) Date: Wed Nov 5 15:48:59 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Newbie New Install - why are PIL & img modules ignored? Message-ID: I just downloaded MacPython23full.bin and installed MacPython-OS9 2.3 on my virgin OS9 macintosh. I did an 'easy install', which said that it installed PIL 1.1.3 The first thing I did was to start the Interpreter and typed >>import Image ImportError: No module named Image >>import img ImportError: No module named img Using Mac's SherlockFind I can see the PIL library folder. It is inside the MacPython Home hierarchy. So why doesn't Python recognize it as being available? PS I did run the automatic tests and they passed (except for socket and logging and the 42 that macpython said should fail on a mac) From kevino at tulane.edu Wed Nov 5 15:49:33 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Wed Nov 5 15:54:36 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] New wxPackMan build Message-ID: <8F3B935E-0FD1-11D8-86BD-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Hi all, Thought I'd take a break from the "Great Icon Debate" to announce that I've posted a new wxPackMan build that should run on Jaguar. You can get it at: http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpm/ I don't have Jaguar though, so if someone could tell me if it runs fine that would be great. =) Also, I'm close to having a wxPython build ready for release for Panther's Python, and once that happens I will just kindly ask people to install wxPython and get the nowx version. It will mean downloading a bigger package the first time around, but subsequent downloads of the program will be *much* faster. Not to mention people will be able to run any wxPython script. ;-) Thanks, Kevin From jack at uitdesloot.nl Wed Nov 5 17:44:12 2003 From: jack at uitdesloot.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Wed Nov 5 17:44:18 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] New _tkinter for MacPython on Panther Message-ID: <93570CD6-0FE1-11D8-9214-000A27B19B96@uitdesloot.nl> Folks, if you installed _tkinter through Package Manager on Panther it is probably a good idea to remove it, and re-install it. I messed up, and inadvertently packaged up a _tkinter for Jaguar. While this will work most of the time it will fail whenever you have both Panther-Python and Jaguar-Python installed on the same system. There's a good chance that this silly mistake was the cause of the various problems people were seeing the last week. Everything is fixed now, but you have to remove /Library/Python/2.3/_tkinter.so manually before you upgrade it. -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From lanceboyle at myrealbox.com Wed Nov 5 23:02:27 2003 From: lanceboyle at myrealbox.com (Lance Boyle) Date: Wed Nov 5 23:02:20 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <090EEA88-100E-11D8-A79A-003065F93FF0@myrealbox.com> No snakes. It's nearly blasphemous to get away from the Montiness. How about the Holy Grail with an apple in it? Jerry On Tuesday, Nov 4, 2003, at 09:33 America/Phoenix, Bob Ippolito wrote: > Sorry to bring this up.. but it took a couple months to get this :) > > I had my roommate ( Evan Mathis - http://www.morevisual.com/ ) come up > with a new MacPython logo: > http://undefined.org/python/py_mac-sq-256.png (the original is in > Photoshop format, and is much higher resolution than this) > From halloleo at myrealbox.com Thu Nov 6 00:53:09 2003 From: halloleo at myrealbox.com (leo) Date: Thu Nov 6 00:52:50 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] New _tkinter for MacPython on Panther References: <93570CD6-0FE1-11D8-9214-000A27B19B96@uitdesloot.nl> Message-ID: <021501c3a42a$42619920$a800000a@Odyssey.local> hi i have installed the macpython addons just after 24.th october. now i want to install tkinter via the package manager. in this list i have read that there was a issue with packman. should i download the macpython-addons again (packman seems to come with it) and do they just overrite the older stuff? thanks, leo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Jansen" To: "Python" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 9:44 AM Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] New _tkinter for MacPython on Panther > Folks, > if you installed _tkinter through Package Manager on Panther it is > probably a good idea to remove it, and re-install it. > > I messed up, and inadvertently packaged up a _tkinter for Jaguar. While > this will work most of the time it will fail whenever you have both > Panther-Python and Jaguar-Python installed on the same system. There's > a good chance that this silly mistake was the cause of the various > problems people were seeing the last week. > > Everything is fixed now, but you have to remove > /Library/Python/2.3/_tkinter.so manually before you upgrade it. > -- > Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack > If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma > Goldman > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig From fredrik at pythonware.com Thu Nov 6 04:47:24 2003 From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh) Date: Thu Nov 6 05:00:22 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: PIL 1.1.4 and Python 2.3 on Mac OS X 10.3? References: <20031029072439.07E821BE55A@wolfe.parc.com> Message-ID: Bill Janssen wrote: > I've just upgraded my Mac to 10.3, and I'm trying to install PIL 1.1.4 > under /usr/bin/python, which is now 2.3. Build seems to go alright. > But no soap -- I keep getting the following error: > > % /usr/bin/python > Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) > [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. > >>> import Image > Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?) > Abort > % > > Anyone know the issue? Both the Python executable and the extension module (_imaging, in this case) are linked against the Python library DLL/SO [1]. When you run the interpreter, it's important that the system uses the same library instance for both the executable and the extension; if not, you get the above error message. Here's what happens: 1) the system loads the python executable 2) the python executable is dynamically linked against the Python library by the system's runtime loader [1] 3) the python executable hands control over to the Py_Main function in that library, which initializes the library and enters the command loop (or runs the script). 4) when you type the "import" command, code in the Python library locates and loads the _imaging module 5) the runtime loader links the _imaging module against the Python library, but this time, it picks up a *different* instance of the library. 6) the _imaging library calls a function in the Python library, which notices that it hasn't been properly initialized, and terminates. To fix this, look for bogus Python DLL/SOs on the system and Python path. If that doesn't help, it might be a linking problem; check with the Mac folks for details. 1) or whatever they're called on MacOS 10.3. From leknarf at pacbell.net Thu Nov 6 13:48:52 2003 From: leknarf at pacbell.net (Scott Frankel) Date: Thu Nov 6 13:48:57 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] import question Message-ID: Apologies in advance if this is so simple as to be OT ... How should I setup the PYTHONPATH var on OSX so that I can import a module I've built to another script? i.e.: I've built a module and installed it in /usr/local/my_stuff/py_modules I've set the PYTHONPATH environment var in my ~/Library/init/tcsh/rc.mine setenv PYTHONPATH /usr/local/my_stuff/py_modules Then sourced rc.mine. From my script, I get an "ImportError: no module named foo" from this import foo which exists and is executable in /usr/local/my_stuff/py_modules. Thanks in advance! Scott From bob at redivi.com Thu Nov 6 14:37:02 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Thu Nov 6 14:37:21 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] import question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <98211154-1090-11D8-B3CD-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 6, 2003, at 1:48 PM, Scott Frankel wrote: > > Apologies in advance if this is so simple as to be OT ... > > How should I setup the PYTHONPATH var on OSX so that I can > import a module I've built to another script? > > i.e.: > I've built a module and installed it in /usr/local/my_stuff/py_modules > I've set the PYTHONPATH environment var in my > ~/Library/init/tcsh/rc.mine > setenv PYTHONPATH /usr/local/my_stuff/py_modules > Then sourced rc.mine. > > From my script, I get an "ImportError: no module named foo" from this > import foo > which exists and is executable in /usr/local/my_stuff/py_modules. IMHO, PYTHONPATH is a crutch and should rarely be used. What you should do, for most situations, is to create "pth" files in your existing sys.path .. for example, in my /Library/Python/2.3, I have a file aeve.pth which contains (only) the following text "/Users/bob/svn.undefined.org/aeve" sans quotes. What this means, is when the python interpreter starts (if it finds site.py, of course, which is almost all the time) it will add /Users/bob/svn.undefined.org/aeve to sys.path and find any modules/packages in that directory. -bob From njriley at uiuc.edu Thu Nov 6 14:47:07 2003 From: njriley at uiuc.edu (Nicholas Riley) Date: Thu Nov 6 14:47:11 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Conflict between libjpeg in wxPython and PIL Message-ID: <20031106194707.GA90002@uiuc.edu> Hi, I was attempting to try out Cornice under Mac OS X. It uses wxPython and PIL to display images. Unfortunately, there is a conflict between the binary distribution of wxPython, which includes its own libjpeg, and PIL built with PackageManager, which links with a copy of libjpeg I installed with Fink. This causes Python to crash every time I try to view a JPEG format image. I was able to solve this problem by recompiling wxPython from source using libjpeg from Fink, but this is not a convenient solution. Is it possible to fix this problem from either end - perhaps it would help if wxPython did not export symbols from libjpeg? -- =Nicholas Riley | From bob at redivi.com Thu Nov 6 15:00:46 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Thu Nov 6 15:01:01 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Conflict between libjpeg in wxPython and PIL In-Reply-To: <20031106194707.GA90002@uiuc.edu> References: <20031106194707.GA90002@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: On Nov 6, 2003, at 2:47 PM, Nicholas Riley wrote: > I was attempting to try out Cornice > under Mac OS X. It uses > wxPython and PIL to display images. Unfortunately, there is a > conflict between the binary distribution of wxPython, which includes > its own libjpeg, and PIL built with PackageManager, which links with a > copy of libjpeg I installed with Fink. This causes Python to crash > every time I try to view a JPEG format image. > > I was able to solve this problem by recompiling wxPython from source > using libjpeg from Fink, but this is not a convenient solution. Is it > possible to fix this problem from either end - perhaps it would help > if wxPython did not export symbols from libjpeg? I don't have a real solution for you, but it sounds like one or both were linked incorrectly. You can try the PIL from my site, which is probably better than the one on Jack's because it has libjpeg statically included and includes better TIFF support. http://undefined.org/python/pimp/darwin-6.8-Power_Macintosh.html I will be deprecating this database in favor of a Panther database in the next few days.. Sorry guys, but I don't run Jaguar anymore. I will leave all of the Jaguar packages and plists up, but I will no longer be maintaining them. However, as a consolation, I'll add a wiki entry to pythonmac.org about how to run your own Package Manager database and make it easy/obvious to find the tools that I use to do so. If you're on Panther, wait a few days.. I'll have a database up pretty soon. -bob From njriley at uiuc.edu Thu Nov 6 15:53:02 2003 From: njriley at uiuc.edu (Nicholas Riley) Date: Thu Nov 6 15:53:07 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Conflict between libjpeg in wxPython and PIL In-Reply-To: References: <20031106194707.GA90002@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <20031106205302.GA90656@uiuc.edu> On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 03:00:46PM -0500, Bob Ippolito wrote: > I don't have a real solution for you, but it sounds like one or both > were linked incorrectly. You can try the PIL from my site, which is > probably better than the one on Jack's because it has libjpeg > statically included and includes better TIFF support. That fixes the problem - and I see that the release version of wxWindows has differently broken controls from the CVS version :) Since I didn't change wxWindows, it sounds like PIL was incorrectly built at least. -- =Nicholas Riley | From bob at redivi.com Thu Nov 6 16:00:37 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Thu Nov 6 16:00:54 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Conflict between libjpeg in wxPython and PIL In-Reply-To: <20031106205302.GA90656@uiuc.edu> References: <20031106194707.GA90002@uiuc.edu> <20031106205302.GA90656@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <45689B2D-109C-11D8-B3CD-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 6, 2003, at 3:53 PM, Nicholas Riley wrote: > On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 03:00:46PM -0500, Bob Ippolito wrote: >> I don't have a real solution for you, but it sounds like one or both >> were linked incorrectly. You can try the PIL from my site, which is >> probably better than the one on Jack's because it has libjpeg >> statically included and includes better TIFF support. > > That fixes the problem - and I see that the release version of > wxWindows has differently broken controls from the CVS version :) > > Since I didn't change wxWindows, it sounds like PIL was incorrectly > built at least. Or.. the libjpeg in fink was incorrectly built. I don't trust anything in fink to work outside of fink (it's not really supposed to), so I don't use fink. -bob From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov Thu Nov 6 07:11:28 2003 From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Chris Barker) Date: Thu Nov 6 16:20:56 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] import question References: Message-ID: <3FAA3A70.B26981CE@noaa.gov> Scott Frankel wrote: > From my script, I get an "ImportError: no module named foo" from this > import foo > which exists and is executable in /usr/local/my_stuff/py_modules. I've nothing to add to Bob's note, except that foo.py does not have to be executable, jsut readable....and it is named "foo.py", not just "foo" isn't it? you can also do a: print sys.path to see if Python has got the right path. Personally, like Bob, I have never used PYTHONPATH, on OS_X or Linux. -Chris -- -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT (206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception Chris.Barker@noaa.gov From bob at redivi.com Thu Nov 6 18:48:30 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Thu Nov 6 18:48:47 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Possibly exploiting "features" in the current PackageManager.app Message-ID: As I'm working on my Panther package repository, I noticed something that a few of you might appreciate. PackageManager already "has" the "install from disk" feature (at least on my computer..). Here's why: 1) PackageManager downloads stuff to /tmp, and forgets to delete it (at least on Panther, as far as I can tell) 2) PackageManager checks /tmp to see if the package is already downloaded (by filename/md5sum) These "features" mean two things: (a) you might want to clean up your /tmp if you use PackageManager ;) (does OS X do this on reboot?) (b) you should be able to download from a fast connection, and install on another computer, here's how: * use package manager and install on one computer * copy the tarballs from /tmp to a CD or whatever so you can get it to the second computer * copy the tarballs from the CD to /tmp Note that I haven't actually tested this, but it looks like it should work. -bob From janssen at parc.com Thu Nov 6 18:57:34 2003 From: janssen at parc.com (Bill Janssen) Date: Thu Nov 6 18:57:53 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: [Image-SIG] Re: PIL 1.1.4 and Python 2.3 on Mac OS X 10.3? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 06 Nov 2003 01:47:24 PST." Message-ID: <03Nov6.155735pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> > 2) the python executable is dynamically linked against the Python library > by the system's runtime loader [1] This seems to be complicated further in the Mac case, due to something I don't understand fully called "frameworks", which seem to interact with the runtime linking in some fashion. Guess I'm going to have to learn about it just to make Python work. Sigh. Thanks for the nice summary, Fredrik! Bill From bob at redivi.com Thu Nov 6 19:12:28 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Thu Nov 6 19:12:47 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: [Image-SIG] Re: PIL 1.1.4 and Python 2.3 on Mac OS X 10.3? In-Reply-To: <03Nov6.155735pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> References: <03Nov6.155735pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> Message-ID: <12E25D55-10B7-11D8-B3CD-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 6, 2003, at 6:57 PM, Bill Janssen wrote: >> 2) the python executable is dynamically linked against the Python >> library >> by the system's runtime loader [1] > > This seems to be complicated further in the Mac case, due to something > I don't understand fully called "frameworks", which seem to interact > with the runtime linking in some fashion. Guess I'm going to have to > learn about it just to make Python work. Sigh. > > Thanks for the nice summary, Fredrik! The only way (that I can possibly think of) to cause this "Interpreter not initialized" problem for a module you built yourself is if you have more than one Python installed on your computer. The places to look for them, unless for some reason you've set DYLD_FALLBACK_FRAMEWORK_PATH yourself are: ~/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework /Network/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework Delete all the other ones and stick with what Apple gave you and your problems should go away. You should stop making this so hard on yourself.. besides, PIL is available precompiled by way of Package Manager (albeit, missing libjpeg and a few other things, but I will have a Panther version of my Package Manager repository in a few days that will include a better version of PIL). -bob From janssen at parc.com Thu Nov 6 22:09:36 2003 From: janssen at parc.com (Bill Janssen) Date: Thu Nov 6 22:10:09 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: [Image-SIG] Re: PIL 1.1.4 and Python 2.3 on Mac OS X 10.3? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 06 Nov 2003 16:12:28 PST." <12E25D55-10B7-11D8-B3CD-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <03Nov6.190940pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> > Delete all the other ones and stick with what Apple gave you and your > problems should go away. > > You should stop making this so hard on yourself.. besides, PIL is > available precompiled by way of Package Manager (albeit, missing > libjpeg and a few other things, but I will have a Panther version of my > Package Manager repository in a few days that will include a better > version of PIL). Sorry, Bob, but I've been making it hard on myself for years now and probably can't stop now :-). In any case, we tend to use packages NFS-automounted from a central location, rather than installing packages like Python + PIL + ... on each individual machine. I need to make it continue to work that way (as it always has up to 10.3). Bill From leknarf at pacbell.net Thu Nov 6 22:14:35 2003 From: leknarf at pacbell.net (Scott Frankel) Date: Thu Nov 6 22:14:41 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] import question In-Reply-To: <98211154-1090-11D8-B3CD-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <835F127E-10D0-11D8-9DEC-000A958BFE22@pacbell.net> Import works now! Sometimes it's the little things. Like ending in ".py." Thanks Chris! But I'm curious about your (Bob's) comments below. Can you elaborate on why I should use pth files instead of environment vars to define python's path? Also, if I switch to the pth file method, I need to ask for some clarification. i.e.: is the name "aeve" significant? Does your /Library/Python/2.3 contain Python, Resources, bin, a link to Headers, &c.? I tried creating a pth file with a name and path that were meaningful on my system; but the script couldn't find the module. Same error as below. Thanks again! Scott On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 11:37 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > On Nov 6, 2003, at 1:48 PM, Scott Frankel wrote: > >> >> Apologies in advance if this is so simple as to be OT ... >> >> How should I setup the PYTHONPATH var on OSX so that I can >> import a module I've built to another script? >> >> i.e.: >> I've built a module and installed it in /usr/local/my_stuff/py_modules >> I've set the PYTHONPATH environment var in my >> ~/Library/init/tcsh/rc.mine >> setenv PYTHONPATH /usr/local/my_stuff/py_modules >> Then sourced rc.mine. >> >> From my script, I get an "ImportError: no module named foo" from this >> import foo >> which exists and is executable in /usr/local/my_stuff/py_modules. > > IMHO, PYTHONPATH is a crutch and should rarely be used. What you > should do, for most situations, is to create "pth" files in your > existing sys.path .. for example, in my /Library/Python/2.3, I have a > file aeve.pth which contains (only) the following text > "/Users/bob/svn.undefined.org/aeve" sans quotes. What this means, is > when the python interpreter starts (if it finds site.py, of course, > which is almost all the time) it will add > /Users/bob/svn.undefined.org/aeve to sys.path and find any > modules/packages in that directory. > > -bob > From bob at redivi.com Thu Nov 6 22:23:15 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Thu Nov 6 22:23:33 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] import question In-Reply-To: <835F127E-10D0-11D8-9DEC-000A958BFE22@pacbell.net> References: <835F127E-10D0-11D8-9DEC-000A958BFE22@pacbell.net> Message-ID: The name aeve is not significant. I guess you're using Jaguar python then, my instructions were for Panther.. then your pth file needs to go in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site- packages (I think that's right). On Nov 6, 2003, at 10:14 PM, Scott Frankel wrote: > > Import works now! > > Sometimes it's the little things. Like ending in ".py." Thanks Chris! > > But I'm curious about your (Bob's) comments below. Can you elaborate > on why I should use pth files instead of environment vars to define > python's > path? > > Also, if I switch to the pth file method, I need to ask for some > clarification. > i.e.: is the name "aeve" significant? Does your /Library/Python/2.3 > contain Python, Resources, bin, a link to Headers, &c.? I tried > creating > a pth file with a name and path that were meaningful on my system; but > the script couldn't find the module. Same error as below. > > Thanks again! > Scott > > > On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 11:37 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> On Nov 6, 2003, at 1:48 PM, Scott Frankel wrote: >> >>> >>> Apologies in advance if this is so simple as to be OT ... >>> >>> How should I setup the PYTHONPATH var on OSX so that I can >>> import a module I've built to another script? >>> >>> i.e.: >>> I've built a module and installed it in >>> /usr/local/my_stuff/py_modules >>> I've set the PYTHONPATH environment var in my >>> ~/Library/init/tcsh/rc.mine >>> setenv PYTHONPATH /usr/local/my_stuff/py_modules >>> Then sourced rc.mine. >>> >>> From my script, I get an "ImportError: no module named foo" from this >>> import foo >>> which exists and is executable in /usr/local/my_stuff/py_modules. >> >> IMHO, PYTHONPATH is a crutch and should rarely be used. What you >> should do, for most situations, is to create "pth" files in your >> existing sys.path .. for example, in my /Library/Python/2.3, I have a >> file aeve.pth which contains (only) the following text >> "/Users/bob/svn.undefined.org/aeve" sans quotes. What this means, is >> when the python interpreter starts (if it finds site.py, of course, >> which is almost all the time) it will add >> /Users/bob/svn.undefined.org/aeve to sys.path and find any >> modules/packages in that directory. >> >> -bob >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig From halloleo at myrealbox.com Thu Nov 6 22:33:59 2003 From: halloleo at myrealbox.com (leo) Date: Thu Nov 6 22:33:39 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] how to reinstall panther-macpython built Message-ID: <01c901c3a4df$fcf988a0$a800000a@Odyssey.local> hi i have installed the macpython addons just after 24.th october. in this list i have read that there was a issue with packman. when i download the macpython-addons again does the install just overrite the old addons nicley? ultimatly i want to install tkinter with the pack man. i guess its adviable to go for the new addons for that, isn't it? thanks a lot, leo From leknarf at pacbell.net Fri Nov 7 01:55:53 2003 From: leknarf at pacbell.net (Scott Frankel) Date: Fri Nov 7 01:56:02 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] import question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6E1DF1B5-10EF-11D8-9DEC-000A958BFE22@pacbell.net> Bingo! Thanks Scott On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 07:23 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > The name aeve is not significant. > > I guess you're using Jaguar python then, my instructions were for > Panther.. then your pth file needs to go in > /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site- > packages (I think that's right). > > > On Nov 6, 2003, at 10:14 PM, Scott Frankel wrote: > >> >> Import works now! >> >> Sometimes it's the little things. Like ending in ".py." Thanks >> Chris! >> >> But I'm curious about your (Bob's) comments below. Can you elaborate >> on why I should use pth files instead of environment vars to define >> python's >> path? >> >> Also, if I switch to the pth file method, I need to ask for some >> clarification. >> i.e.: is the name "aeve" significant? Does your /Library/Python/2.3 >> contain Python, Resources, bin, a link to Headers, &c.? I tried >> creating >> a pth file with a name and path that were meaningful on my system; but >> the script couldn't find the module. Same error as below. >> >> Thanks again! >> Scott >> >> >> On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 11:37 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: >> >>> On Nov 6, 2003, at 1:48 PM, Scott Frankel wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Apologies in advance if this is so simple as to be OT ... >>>> >>>> How should I setup the PYTHONPATH var on OSX so that I can >>>> import a module I've built to another script? >>>> >>>> i.e.: >>>> I've built a module and installed it in >>>> /usr/local/my_stuff/py_modules >>>> I've set the PYTHONPATH environment var in my >>>> ~/Library/init/tcsh/rc.mine >>>> setenv PYTHONPATH /usr/local/my_stuff/py_modules >>>> Then sourced rc.mine. >>>> >>>> From my script, I get an "ImportError: no module named foo" from >>>> this >>>> import foo >>>> which exists and is executable in /usr/local/my_stuff/py_modules. >>> >>> IMHO, PYTHONPATH is a crutch and should rarely be used. What you >>> should do, for most situations, is to create "pth" files in your >>> existing sys.path .. for example, in my /Library/Python/2.3, I have >>> a file aeve.pth which contains (only) the following text >>> "/Users/bob/svn.undefined.org/aeve" sans quotes. What this means, >>> is when the python interpreter starts (if it finds site.py, of >>> course, which is almost all the time) it will add >>> /Users/bob/svn.undefined.org/aeve to sys.path and find any >>> modules/packages in that directory. >>> >>> -bob >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Fri Nov 7 05:14:08 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Fri Nov 7 05:14:02 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Conflict between libjpeg in wxPython and PIL In-Reply-To: References: <20031106194707.GA90002@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <1FC92D6E-110B-11D8-BFFE-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> On 6 Nov 2003, at 21:00, Bob Ippolito wrote: >> I was able to solve this problem by recompiling wxPython from source >> using libjpeg from Fink, but this is not a convenient solution. Is it >> possible to fix this problem from either end - perhaps it would help >> if wxPython did not export symbols from libjpeg? > > I don't have a real solution for you, but it sounds like one or both > were linked incorrectly. You can try the PIL from my site, which is > probably better than the one on Jack's because it has libjpeg > statically included and includes better TIFF support. Correct. The real problem is that I inadvertantly linked PIL with a dynamic libjpeg. If you file a sourceforge bug report then I may remember fixing it:-) (the problem was reported here earlier, but it keeps slipping my mind). Bob: why is tiff support better in your PIL? What should I do to change things for the PIL in the official database? -- Jack Jansen http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Fri Nov 7 05:50:56 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Fri Nov 7 05:51:05 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Second build of MacPython additions for Panther Message-ID: <4401B3B7-1110-11D8-BFFE-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> The second build of the MacPython additions for Panther seems to work nicely, so it is now the official version. If you haven't installed it yet now is a good time to do so. This build allows installation of the full Python documentation again, with context-sensitive lookup in the IDE (select a word, use Help->Lookup in Python documentation). Also, it fixes the IDE startup bug. The PackMan database has also been updated to include a functional _tkinter. Get it via . -- Jack Jansen http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil Fri Nov 7 07:37:31 2003 From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Louis M. Pecora) Date: Fri Nov 7 07:37:21 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] import question In-Reply-To: <98211154-1090-11D8-B3CD-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <98211154-1090-11D8-B3CD-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: > >IMHO, PYTHONPATH is a crutch and should rarely be used. What you >should do, for most situations, is to create "pth" files in your >existing sys.path .. for example, in my /Library/Python/2.3, I have >a file aeve.pth which contains (only) the following text >"/Users/bob/svn.undefined.org/aeve" sans quotes. What this means, >is when the python interpreter starts (if it finds site.py, of >course, which is almost all the time) it will add >/Users/bob/svn.undefined.org/aeve to sys.path and find any >modules/packages in that directory. > >-bob Bob, I have been messing with PYTHONPATH because I thought that was the way to do it. What I did was create the directory .MacOSX and then the plist file Environment.plist using the Prefs editor in the Appledevelopment tools, although any test editor will do if you know XML (I don't) or if you create the file, then re-editing is easy. Environment.plist looks like this when I'm done: PYTHONPATH /users/louispecora/Code/python/general:/users/louispecora/Code/python/plotwindow I have two paths defined: /users/louispecora/Code/python/general /users/louispecora/Code/python/plotwindow so I can import my modules from them. To add more I just open the file and colon-separate additional paths. Now you're telling me that through sys.path there's this other way. Is that anywhere in the docs so I can understand it more? Thanks. -- Cheers, Lou Pecora From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Fri Nov 7 08:38:37 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Fri Nov 7 08:38:38 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] import question In-Reply-To: References: <98211154-1090-11D8-B3CD-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: Bobs statement about .pth files being better than mucking with PYTHONPATH is only partially correct. It really depends on the effect you want to achieve: 1. If you want to extend your Python installation system-wide with some additional stuff use a .pth file in a standard place. 2. If you want to have some modules on sys.path for your own personal use only use $PYTHONPATH. And, actually, for both the best solution is often to put your additions in $prefix/lib/python2.3/site-packages and ~/Library/Python/2.3/site-packages, respectively, and not add anything to sys.path. -- Jack Jansen http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From bob at redivi.com Fri Nov 7 09:51:27 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Fri Nov 7 09:51:40 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Conflict between libjpeg in wxPython and PIL In-Reply-To: <1FC92D6E-110B-11D8-BFFE-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> References: <20031106194707.GA90002@uiuc.edu> <1FC92D6E-110B-11D8-BFFE-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> Message-ID: On Nov 7, 2003, at 5:14 AM, Jack Jansen wrote: > > On 6 Nov 2003, at 21:00, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >>> I was able to solve this problem by recompiling wxPython from source >>> using libjpeg from Fink, but this is not a convenient solution. Is >>> it >>> possible to fix this problem from either end - perhaps it would help >>> if wxPython did not export symbols from libjpeg? >> >> I don't have a real solution for you, but it sounds like one or both >> were linked incorrectly. You can try the PIL from my site, which is >> probably better than the one on Jack's because it has libjpeg >> statically included and includes better TIFF support. > > Correct. The real problem is that I inadvertantly linked PIL with a > dynamic libjpeg. If you file a sourceforge bug report then I may > remember fixing it:-) (the problem was reported here earlier, but it > keeps slipping my mind). > > Bob: why is tiff support better in your PIL? What should I do to > change things for the PIL in the official database? It links against libtiff, and has a patch applied to the sources.. it was mentioned to this list a while back, search for "TIFF Group 4", the patch itself is at: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/image-sig/2003-July/002354.html Also, I have mine linking against freetype as well, are you doing that? -bob From oussoren at cistron.nl Fri Nov 7 10:09:44 2003 From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Fri Nov 7 10:09:50 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Conflict between libjpeg in wxPython and PIL In-Reply-To: References: <20031106194707.GA90002@uiuc.edu> <1FC92D6E-110B-11D8-BFFE-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <6B9E0266-1134-11D8-896F-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl> On 7 nov 2003, at 15:51, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > It links against libtiff, and has a patch applied to the sources.. it > was mentioned to this list a while back, search for "TIFF Group 4", > the patch itself is at: > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/image-sig/2003-July/002354.html > > Also, I have mine linking against freetype as well, are you doing that? Do you have a kind of meta-packman that contains information about how to build the binary packages? BTW. the pimp module doesn't seem smart enough to build packages that require multiple source achives (such as PIL + libjpeg + freetype). Ronald From bob at redivi.com Fri Nov 7 10:16:07 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Fri Nov 7 10:16:22 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Conflict between libjpeg in wxPython and PIL In-Reply-To: <6B9E0266-1134-11D8-896F-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl> References: <20031106194707.GA90002@uiuc.edu> <1FC92D6E-110B-11D8-BFFE-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> <6B9E0266-1134-11D8-896F-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl> Message-ID: <4FECDEAE-1135-11D8-AF05-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 7, 2003, at 10:09 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > > On 7 nov 2003, at 15:51, Bob Ippolito wrote: >> >> It links against libtiff, and has a patch applied to the sources.. it >> was mentioned to this list a while back, search for "TIFF Group 4", >> the patch itself is at: >> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/image-sig/2003-July/002354.html >> >> Also, I have mine linking against freetype as well, are you doing >> that? > > Do you have a kind of meta-packman that contains information about how > to build the binary packages? I am the meta-packman :) Generally I just make sure I have all the correct stuff installed, sometimes I modify the setup.py (or create one, that just puts the .so and .py files in the right place, in the case of metakit or something). > BTW. the pimp module doesn't seem smart enough to build packages that > require multiple source achives (such as PIL + libjpeg + freetype). That's why I only really bother with binary archives.. last I checked, the pimp module also isn't smart enough to build something that needs any other steps happen before setup.py (like with PIL's libImaging), so I think Jack is using one with a modified setup.py. -bob From bob at redivi.com Fri Nov 7 10:32:43 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Fri Nov 7 10:33:00 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] import question In-Reply-To: References: <98211154-1090-11D8-B3CD-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: On Nov 7, 2003, at 8:38 AM, Jack Jansen wrote: > Bobs statement about .pth files being better than mucking with > PYTHONPATH is only partially correct. It really depends on the effect > you want to achieve: > > 1. If you want to extend your Python installation system-wide with > some additional stuff use a .pth file in a standard place. > 2. If you want to have some modules on sys.path for your own personal > use only use $PYTHONPATH. > > And, actually, for both the best solution is often to put your > additions in $prefix/lib/python2.3/site-packages and > ~/Library/Python/2.3/site-packages, respectively, and not add anything > to sys.path. Or you could put your pth file in ~/Library/Python/2.3/site-packages, if you wanted it for your own personal use. I still think that PYTHONPATH is still only useful for modifying sys.path before site.py is imported, or if it doesn't get imported. -bob From byronea at u.washington.edu Fri Nov 7 12:38:54 2003 From: byronea at u.washington.edu (Byron Amerson) Date: Fri Nov 7 12:39:00 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] new user with round-a-bout questions Message-ID: Hi, new-ish to using python on my mac. After a lot of monkeying around with installs(read 6 or seven in the last 4 days) I have some quetstions that, I think, are elemenatry in nature... A bit of background: I have been getting together the bits to build GRASS - an open source GIS. Two pieces in particular optionally use python: postgres and gdal. To make a long story short: I removed the python from OSX 10.3. I tried the fink install but gdal could not see it. So I removed that install and just built it the unix way and it runs just fine(version 2.3.2). Now my when I run configure-make for postgres(7.4beta5), make gripes that libpython is not shared - which I asked configure to do when I built python. (gdal sees python now, but not the Numeric headers, alas) Is there a way to see if python indeed does/does not have shared libs? Should I just install MacPython? will the binary for 10.2 work, or is there a way to re-install from the panther dics? and then patch with your handy patches? Feedback is greatly appreciated - thanks in advance. Byron Amerson MS student University of Washington Department of Earth and Space Sciences From marlong at rogers.com Fri Nov 7 14:36:13 2003 From: marlong at rogers.com (Marlon A. Griffith) Date: Fri Nov 7 14:36:19 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [newbie] Question about mod_psp with Apache and MacPython 2.3.x under 10.2.6 Message-ID: Hello there, I am testing the waters with this my first post. I like php for web development and came across mod_psp, which has an embedded structure like php. It is experimental, but functional for the author. I believe under linux. The procedure was to compile the module and install it under apache. Does anyone have any experience with this module or compiling python modules for apache using MacPython 2.3.x libraries as the core? Please Note: I can post the details but wanted to test the waters before sending all the error messages and modified files, etc. Thanks in advance for any assistance. -- Make it a great day! http://members.rogers.com/kalyxsis "We move ahead by going deeper." Jennifer James (1943- ) American Writer "Don't let your schooling interfere with your education." Mark Twain "Do not parrot the words of famous people. Learn the meaning of what they say and repeat it in your own words." Mark Twain (not an exact quote). From bob at redivi.com Fri Nov 7 14:50:34 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Fri Nov 7 14:50:54 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [newbie] Question about mod_psp with Apache and MacPython 2.3.x under 10.2.6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 7, 2003, at 2:36 PM, Marlon A. Griffith wrote: > Hello there, > I am testing the waters with this my first post. I like php for web > development and came across mod_psp, which has an embedded structure > like php. It is experimental, but functional for the author. I believe > under linux. > The procedure was to compile the module and install it under apache. > Does anyone have any experience with this module or compiling python > modules for apache using MacPython 2.3.x libraries as the core? > > Please Note: I can post the details but wanted to test the waters > before sending all the error messages and modified files, etc. While it would work in theory, especially because OS X (except for server, at least) still uses Apache 1.3.x, you shouldn't use this. The author hasn't touched it in 7 months (according to sf.net CVS), it doesn't have a proper webpage, the only release I could find was only available from one of the author's blog entries (not even on sf), etc. There are many other solutions you should consider, such as Zope, WebWare, mod_python, etc. that can be used in a similar fashion. But then again, design patterns "like php" are being moved away from, because code and display markup in the same file breaks down really fast, isn't very extensible, and doesn't really provide a lot of opportunities for optimization. Even ASP.NET encourages you to put all of your application logic in the "codebehind" and use the aspx file for display issues only. So perhaps you should consider learning one of the other design patterns for web application design instead of trying to "do php in python". Besides, it's extremely easy to find PHP hosting, and much harder to find any non-CGI Python hosting (unless you're willing to pay good money for it, to get a dedicated server or the like), so maybe sticking with PHP is just a better option for web applications with that kind of approach. -bob From bob at redivi.com Fri Nov 7 14:58:26 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Fri Nov 7 14:58:39 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] new user with round-a-bout questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 7, 2003, at 12:38 PM, Byron Amerson wrote: > Hi, new-ish to using python on my mac. After a lot of monkeying around > with installs(read 6 or seven in the last 4 days) I have some > quetstions > that, I think, are elemenatry in nature... > > A bit of background: I have been getting together the bits to build > GRASS > - an open source GIS. Two pieces in particular optionally use python: > postgres and gdal. To make a long story short: I removed the python > from OSX 10.3. You *removed* software from /System ?? If so, re-install OS X. Never ever do that, under any circumstance. Sometimes it's necessary to tweak a file or two in there (i.e. Perl's Config.pm is screwed up in OS X 10.3, and needs a fix in order to be able to compile some Perl extensions) > I tried the fink install but gdal could not see it. So I > removed that install and just built it the unix way and it runs just > fine(version 2.3.2). > Now my when I run configure-make for postgres(7.4beta5), make gripes > that libpython is not shared - which I asked configure to do when I > built > python. (gdal sees python now, but not the Numeric headers, alas) PostgreSQL only needs Python if you intend to use python as a user defined function language. Personally, I've never really seen this used, it's primarily just plpgsql that's used, maybe pltcl or plperl, but plpython is a lot newer. > Is there a way to see if python indeed does/does not have shared libs? Yes, Python indeed does, but most configure scripts aren't smart enough to find them because they're frameworks. > Should I just install MacPython? will the binary for 10.2 > work, or is there a way to re-install from the panther dics? and then > patch with your handy patches? No, don't install the 10.2 MacPython distribution. It does work, even on 10.3, but right now your OS is broken and you should fix that. You probably need to reinstall the whole of OS X 10.3, but that is probably pretty painless. The 10.2 MacPython distribution is not necessary on 10.3. I'd like to help you further, but I'm pretty busy taking care of other MacPython related things for a good while out, so I don't have time to tinker with GRASS, etc.. You could *try* doing sudo ln -s /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/Python /usr/local/lib/libpython2.3.dylib -- which may convince the configure scripts that you do indeed have a dynamic library for Python.. but then it probably won't find the headers, so something similar has to be done for include. -bob From bob at redivi.com Fri Nov 7 15:13:03 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Fri Nov 7 15:13:16 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] A -flat_namespace alternative for OS X 10.3 Message-ID: It just came to my attention that OS X 10.3 has made Yet Another Change To Dyld For The Better Thats Unfortunately Not Backwards Compatible. I imagine we'll be seeing at least one of these every release, continuing the trend. Personally, for 10.4, I'd like to see an equivalent to @executable_path for bundles, so that one may embed frameworks inside of a plugin bundle.. I'll probably file a radar for that one. In the man page for ld(1) in OS X 10.3, there is the following new addition in the "TWO-LEVEL AND FLAT NAMESPACES" section When creating a output file with the static link editor when -twolevel_namespace is in effect (now the default) all undefined refer- ences must be satisfied at static link time. The flags to allow unde- fined references, -Usymbol_name, -undefined warning and -undefined sup- press can't be used. When the environment variable MACOSX_DEPLOY- MENT_TARGET is set to 10.3 then -undefined dynamic_lookup can also be used. and... in the "symbols related" part of the OPTIONS section: -undefined treatment Specifies how undefined symbols are to be treated. treatment can be: error, warning, or suppress. Which cause the treatment of undefined symbols as either, errors, warnings, or suppresses the checking of undefined symbols. The default is to treat undefined symbols as errors. When the environment variable MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET is set to 10.3 then -undefined dynamic_lookup can also be used to allow any undefined symbols to be looked up dynamically at runtime. Use of a binary built with this flag requires a system with a dynamic linker from Mac OS X 10.3 or later. The flag -undefined define_a_way can also be used to cause the static linker to create a private defini- tion for all undefined symbols. This flag should only be used if it is known that the undefined symbols are not referenced as any use of them may cause a crash. What this means to us, is that in situations where -flat_namespace -undefined suppress would be used, we can (instead of actually fixing the code) use -undefined dynamic_lookup instead if on OS X and MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET is set. The primary case for this seems to be SWIG, which to this day still loves that stupid -flat_namespace hack. I will be using this for any "-flat_namespace" modules in my new Panther package, which includes at least PyOpenGL, M2Crypto. I found this out because yesterday a coworker of mine pointed me to a Perl discussion, where (thankfully it wasn't us this time) Apple screwed up a Perl configuration file (aptly named Config.pm) that effects how Perl extensions are built. The mixup they made was that they set ld to be "MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.3; ld -undefined dynamic_lookup -bundle ... something.." instead of "env MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.3; ld -undefined dynamic_lookup -bundle ... something ..." .. Oops! :) Unfortunately for Perl users and Apple, this actually prevents a bunch of the most popular Perl modules from building, such as the MySQL DBI bindings! So, since I had never seen dynamic_lookup before, I read the man page. -bob From janssen at parc.com Fri Nov 7 18:00:48 2003 From: janssen at parc.com (Bill Janssen) Date: Fri Nov 7 18:01:11 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Second build of MacPython additions for Panther In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 07 Nov 2003 02:50:56 PST." <4401B3B7-1110-11D8-BFFE-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <03Nov7.150051pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> I've just downloaded this (using OmniWeb 4.5), but when I try to mount the image I get a pop-up with The following disk images failed to mount: MacPython-Panther-2.3-2.dmg | Error -199 What's up? What's the checksum for this dmg? Bill From byronea at u.washington.edu Fri Nov 7 21:13:49 2003 From: byronea at u.washington.edu (Byron Amerson) Date: Fri Nov 7 21:14:04 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] new user with round-a-bout questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: oh. Wow, my system is really broke? Things seem to work fine otherwise. wow. should I just update or do a complete reinstall? OK I'll reinstall. Live and learn. Thank You Bob. Byron Amerson MS student University of Washington Department of Earth and Space Sciences On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Nov 7, 2003, at 12:38 PM, Byron Amerson wrote: > > > Hi, new-ish to using python on my mac. After a lot of monkeying around > > with installs(read 6 or seven in the last 4 days) I have some > > quetstions > > that, I think, are elemenatry in nature... > > > > A bit of background: I have been getting together the bits to build > > GRASS > > - an open source GIS. Two pieces in particular optionally use python: > > postgres and gdal. To make a long story short: I removed the python > > from OSX 10.3. > > You *removed* software from /System ?? If so, re-install OS X. Never > ever do that, under any circumstance. Sometimes it's necessary to > tweak a file or two in there (i.e. Perl's Config.pm is screwed up in OS > X 10.3, and needs a fix in order to be able to compile some Perl > extensions) > > > I tried the fink install but gdal could not see it. So I > > removed that install and just built it the unix way and it runs just > > fine(version 2.3.2). > > Now my when I run configure-make for postgres(7.4beta5), make gripes > > that libpython is not shared - which I asked configure to do when I > > built > > python. (gdal sees python now, but not the Numeric headers, alas) > > PostgreSQL only needs Python if you intend to use python as a user > defined function language. Personally, I've never really seen this > used, it's primarily just plpgsql that's used, maybe pltcl or plperl, > but plpython is a lot newer. > > > Is there a way to see if python indeed does/does not have shared libs? > > Yes, Python indeed does, but most configure scripts aren't smart enough > to find them because they're frameworks. > > > Should I just install MacPython? will the binary for 10.2 > > work, or is there a way to re-install from the panther dics? and then > > patch with your handy patches? > > No, don't install the 10.2 MacPython distribution. It does work, even > on 10.3, but right now your OS is broken and you should fix that. You > probably need to reinstall the whole of OS X 10.3, but that is probably > pretty painless. The 10.2 MacPython distribution is not necessary on > 10.3. > > I'd like to help you further, but I'm pretty busy taking care of other > MacPython related things for a good while out, so I don't have time to > tinker with GRASS, etc.. You could *try* doing sudo ln -s > /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/Python > /usr/local/lib/libpython2.3.dylib -- which may convince the configure > scripts that you do indeed have a dynamic library for Python.. but then > it probably won't find the headers, so something similar has to be done > for include. > > -bob > > From marlong at rogers.com Fri Nov 7 23:30:53 2003 From: marlong at rogers.com (Marlon A. Griffith) Date: Fri Nov 7 23:31:11 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [newbie] Question about mod_psp with Apache and MacPython 2.3.x under 10.2.6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for your pointers Bob. I did not realize that psp had not been worked on for that long. Last thing, I did read was that it was rolled into mod_python. I will explore the other options. At 2:50 PM -0500 11/7/03, Bob Ippolito wrote: >On Nov 7, 2003, at 2:36 PM, Marlon A. Griffith wrote: > >>Hello there, >> I am testing the waters with this my first post. I like php >>for web development and came across mod_psp, which has an embedded >>structure like php. It is experimental, but functional for the >>author. I believe under linux. >> The procedure was to compile the module and install it under >>apache. Does anyone have any experience with this module or >>compiling python modules for apache using MacPython 2.3.x libraries >>as the core? >> >>Please Note: I can post the details but wanted to test the waters >>before sending all the error messages and modified files, etc. > >While it would work in theory, especially because OS X (except for >server, at least) still uses Apache 1.3.x, you shouldn't use this. >The author hasn't touched it in 7 months (according to sf.net CVS), >it doesn't have a proper webpage, the only release I could find was >only available from one of the author's blog entries (not even on >sf), etc. > >There are many other solutions you should consider, such as Zope, >WebWare, mod_python, etc. that can be used in a similar fashion. >But then again, design patterns "like php" are being moved away >from, because code and display markup in the same file breaks down >really fast, isn't very extensible, and doesn't really provide a lot >of opportunities for optimization. Even ASP.NET encourages you to >put all of your application logic in the "codebehind" and use the >aspx file for display issues only. So perhaps you should consider >learning one of the other design patterns for web application design >instead of trying to "do php in python". Besides, it's extremely >easy to find PHP hosting, and much harder to find any non-CGI Python >hosting (unless you're willing to pay good money for it, to get a >dedicated server or the like), so maybe sticking with PHP is just a >better option for web applications with that kind of approach. > >-bob -- Make it a great day! kalyxsis@rogers.com http://members.rogers.com/kalyxsis "We move ahead by going deeper." Jennifer James (1943- ) American Writer "Don't let your schooling interfere with your education." Mark Twain "Do not parrot the words of famous people. Learn the meaning of what they say and repeat it in your own words." Mark Twain (not an exact quote). From bob at redivi.com Sat Nov 8 00:26:15 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sat Nov 8 00:26:40 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [newbie] Question about mod_psp with Apache and MacPython 2.3.x under 10.2.6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12DDCFDA-11AC-11D8-92AB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Maybe it is part of mod_python now, I didn't look at their CVS, but that's a different question entirely :) I'm not sure that mod_python would work too well on stock OS X, because Apache 1.3.x will not work with a threaded Python, so you'd have to build your own. It's just a big mess, I've done it before, I don't recommend it. -bob On Nov 7, 2003, at 11:30 PM, Marlon A. Griffith wrote: > Thanks for your pointers Bob. > I did not realize that psp had not been worked on for that long. Last > thing, I did read was that it was rolled into mod_python. I will > explore the other options. > > At 2:50 PM -0500 11/7/03, Bob Ippolito wrote: >> On Nov 7, 2003, at 2:36 PM, Marlon A. Griffith wrote: >> >>> Hello there, >>> I am testing the waters with this my first post. I like php for web >>> development and came across mod_psp, which has an embedded structure >>> like php. It is experimental, but functional for the author. I >>> believe under linux. >>> The procedure was to compile the module and install it under >>> apache. Does anyone have any experience with this module or >>> compiling python modules for apache using MacPython 2.3.x libraries >>> as the core? >>> >>> Please Note: I can post the details but wanted to test the waters >>> before sending all the error messages and modified files, etc. >> >> While it would work in theory, especially because OS X (except for >> server, at least) still uses Apache 1.3.x, you shouldn't use this. >> The author hasn't touched it in 7 months (according to sf.net CVS), >> it doesn't have a proper webpage, the only release I could find was >> only available from one of the author's blog entries (not even on >> sf), etc. >> >> There are many other solutions you should consider, such as Zope, >> WebWare, mod_python, etc. that can be used in a similar fashion. But >> then again, design patterns "like php" are being moved away from, >> because code and display markup in the same file breaks down really >> fast, isn't very extensible, and doesn't really provide a lot of >> opportunities for optimization. Even ASP.NET encourages you to put >> all of your application logic in the "codebehind" and use the aspx >> file for display issues only. So perhaps you should consider >> learning one of the other design patterns for web application design >> instead of trying to "do php in python". Besides, it's extremely >> easy to find PHP hosting, and much harder to find any non-CGI Python >> hosting (unless you're willing to pay good money for it, to get a >> dedicated server or the like), so maybe sticking with PHP is just a >> better option for web applications with that kind of approach. From kevino at tulane.edu Sat Nov 8 01:02:29 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Sat Nov 8 01:07:47 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] wxPython for Panther test build Message-ID: <227211C9-11B1-11D8-A2DA-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Hi all, I've finally finished with a test build of wxPython for Panther! Please try it and let me know if it installs and runs OK with Apple's Python. After I get some confirmations, I'll post the release to SF so that Robin can make it official! http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpython/wxPythonOSX-2.4.2.4-Py2.3- panther-1.dmg Thanks, Kevin From bob at redivi.com Sat Nov 8 02:04:17 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sat Nov 8 02:04:34 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] wxPython for Panther test build In-Reply-To: <227211C9-11B1-11D8-A2DA-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> References: <227211C9-11B1-11D8-A2DA-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Message-ID: On Nov 8, 2003, at 1:02 AM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: > I've finally finished with a test build of wxPython for Panther! > Please try it and let me know if it installs and runs OK with Apple's > Python. After I get some confirmations, I'll post the release to SF so > that Robin can make it official! > > http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpython/wxPythonOSX-2.4.2.4-Py2.3- > panther-1.dmg Uh, your installer whacks the symlink at /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/ site-packages .. and the files aren't all chgrp admin; chmod g+w admin. This is bad! wxPython basically f'ed up an otherwise perfect python installation :) Make your installer just put stuff into /Library/Python/2.3 instead of site-packages to prevent this from happening. Performance is kinda.. eh. On a 1ghz pbg4 PyShell takes up 100% CPU when I'm typing and it can't keep up with me. A display update after resizing the RunDemo app takes 1-2 seconds. -bob From bob at redivi.com Sat Nov 8 02:38:15 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sat Nov 8 02:38:35 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Additional Package Manager database for 10.3 now available Message-ID: <83BF88A7-11BE-11D8-92AB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> It's up: http://undefined.org/python/pimp/ I've deprecated the 10.2 extensions, sorry guys, but I don't plan on updating it (however I will continue hosting the packages). The old list had a lot more packages than the new one currently has, so I have some catching up to do over the next week or two. Most notably, I've added PyDS and all the extensions it requires to the list. I've also made some small patches to PyDS to make it play nice with OS X. See here: http://www.pycs.net/users/0000202/weblog/2003/11/07.html#P2 -bob From brian_l at mac.com Sat Nov 8 03:37:17 2003 From: brian_l at mac.com (Brian Lenihan) Date: Sat Nov 8 03:37:34 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [newbie] Question about mod_psp with Apache and MacPython 2.3.x under 10.2.6 In-Reply-To: <12DDCFDA-11AC-11D8-92AB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <12DDCFDA-11AC-11D8-92AB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: On Nov 7, 2003, at 9:26 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > Maybe it is part of mod_python now, I didn't look at their CVS, but > that's a different question entirely :) I'm not sure that mod_python > would work too well on stock OS X, because Apache 1.3.x will not work > with a threaded Python, so you'd have to build your own. It's just a > big mess, I've done it before, I don't recommend it. It's not that bad, if you install Apache2: Apache/2.0.48 (Unix) DAV/2 mod_gzip/2.0.26.1a mod_python/3.1.2b Python/2.3.2+ Server at 127.0.0.1 Port 80 I configured apache for my needs like this: ./configure -enable-so --enable-mods-shared=all --with-mpm=worker --enable-proxy --enable-cache --enable-disk_cache --enable-expires most people can probably skip everything after --with-mpm=worker I configured mod_python like this: [1] ./configure --with-apxs=/usr/local/apache2/bin/apxs --with-python=/usr/local/bin/python make cd src apxs still doesn't work well with Frameworks, so make a shell script and run it [2]: --- #!/bin/sh MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.3 gcc -r -keep_private_externs -nostdlib -o .libs/mod_python.so-master.o hlistobject.lo hlist.lo filterobject.lo connobject.lo serverobject.lo util.lo tableobject.lo requestobject.lo _apachemodule.lo mod_python.lo && gcc -bundle -flat_namespace -undefined dynamic_lookup -o .libs/mod_python.so .libs/mod_python.so-master.o -L/Library/Frameworks/../../Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/ Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/config -lm -lc -F. -framework Python -framework System -framework CoreServices -framework Foundation --- cd .. sudo make install add the usual mod_python stuff to httpd.conf [1] I am using Python 2.3 from the release23-maint branch, but I'm not aware of any reason this would not work with Apple's python (/usr/bin/python). [2] found something close to this on Bob's advogato page [3] a while back, but never tried it until now. [3] http://www.advogato.org/person/etrepum/diary.html?start=2 From bob at redivi.com Sat Nov 8 03:50:07 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sat Nov 8 03:50:31 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [newbie] Question about mod_psp with Apache and MacPython 2.3.x under 10.2.6 In-Reply-To: References: <12DDCFDA-11AC-11D8-92AB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <8DEE27E6-11C8-11D8-AD77-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> For 10.3, use -undefined dynamic_lookup WITHOUT -flat_namespace .. I posted about this a few hours ago. -flat_namespace is only for 10.1 and (sparingly) for 10.2, 10.3 should not use it. Chances are, it can be fixed so that you don't need either, but this would be the interim solution. And wow, I totally forgot that I had compiled mod_python for apache2 so long ago :) I don't use that stuff anymore, I used to have some code that ran on mod_python, but I moved it to Twisted. -bob On Nov 8, 2003, at 3:37 AM, Brian Lenihan wrote: > > On Nov 7, 2003, at 9:26 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> Maybe it is part of mod_python now, I didn't look at their CVS, but >> that's a different question entirely :) I'm not sure that mod_python >> would work too well on stock OS X, because Apache 1.3.x will not work >> with a threaded Python, so you'd have to build your own. It's just a >> big mess, I've done it before, I don't recommend it. > > It's not that bad, if you install Apache2: > Apache/2.0.48 (Unix) DAV/2 mod_gzip/2.0.26.1a mod_python/3.1.2b > Python/2.3.2+ Server at 127.0.0.1 Port 80 > > I configured apache for my needs like this: > ./configure -enable-so --enable-mods-shared=all --with-mpm=worker > --enable-proxy --enable-cache --enable-disk_cache --enable-expires > > most people can probably skip everything after --with-mpm=worker > > I configured mod_python like this: [1] > ./configure --with-apxs=/usr/local/apache2/bin/apxs > --with-python=/usr/local/bin/python > make > cd src > > apxs still doesn't work well with Frameworks, so make a shell script > and run it [2]: > > --- > #!/bin/sh > > MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.3 > > gcc -r -keep_private_externs -nostdlib -o > .libs/mod_python.so-master.o hlistobject.lo hlist.lo filterobject.lo > connobject.lo serverobject.lo util.lo tableobject.lo requestobject.lo > _apachemodule.lo mod_python.lo && gcc -bundle -flat_namespace > -undefined dynamic_lookup -o .libs/mod_python.so > .libs/mod_python.so-master.o > -L/Library/Frameworks/../../Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/ > Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/config -lm -lc -F. -framework Python > -framework System -framework CoreServices -framework Foundation > --- > > cd .. > sudo make install > > add the usual mod_python stuff to httpd.conf > > [1] I am using Python 2.3 from the release23-maint branch, but I'm not > aware of any reason this would not work with Apple's python > (/usr/bin/python). > [2] found something close to this on Bob's advogato page [3] a while > back, but never tried it until now. > [3] http://www.advogato.org/person/etrepum/diary.html?start=2 > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig From artelse at mohr-i.nl Sat Nov 8 12:19:43 2003 From: artelse at mohr-i.nl (Arthur Elsenaar) Date: Sat Nov 8 12:19:30 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: References: <3FA94D6C.2DCA4030@pobox.com> Message-ID: Hi, another comment about the icon issue.. Someone wrote: >> > OK, compromise. What we need is a friendly, totemic, 16 ton snake. >> >> With a big foot that squashes things? Sort of an upside-down >> Trogdor... > > Excellent. I second this. I thought about this too and like the fact that we can get away from the (terrible..) Apple logo. I did some graphic design today with a big monty python foot squashing a big X. And indeed, isn't Apple about big X's these days? What versions did we have till now: Aqua blue, Jaguar skin and brushed metal. This made me think of having a big X with a python skin.. but, that wouldn't communicate clearly enough, because it's too subtle. So why don't we go back to Bob's proposal, but exchange the Apple with a big X. Maybe even better, have the snake (with glasses 8-) curled up -in- the X, like hanging in a tree. I'm an artist, but not the pixel-pushing type, so maybe Bob's artist can have a go at this? Also, I like the fact that using the X is pointing to where MacPython's future is. (Hmm, maybe a big X made of chocolate -> Cocoa? This is pointing to an old Dutch tradition, so Jack, Just and Guido might like it..) Arthur ps: for the curious, you can see my quick mockups at http://artifacial.org/tmp/ From bob at redivi.com Sat Nov 8 12:41:03 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sat Nov 8 12:41:16 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: References: <3FA94D6C.2DCA4030@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Nov 8, 2003, at 12:19 PM, Arthur Elsenaar wrote: > > Hi, > > another comment about the icon issue.. > > Someone wrote: > >>> > OK, compromise. What we need is a friendly, totemic, 16 ton >>> snake. >>> >>> With a big foot that squashes things? Sort of an upside-down >>> Trogdor... >> >> Excellent. I second this. > > I thought about this too and like the fact that we can get away from > the (terrible..) Apple logo. I did some graphic design today with a > big monty python foot squashing a big X. > > And indeed, isn't Apple about big X's these days? What versions did we > have till now: Aqua blue, Jaguar skin and brushed metal. This made me > think of having a big X with a python skin.. but, that wouldn't > communicate clearly enough, because it's too subtle. So why don't we > go back to Bob's proposal, but exchange the Apple with a big X. > > Maybe even better, have the snake (with glasses 8-) curled up -in- the > X, like hanging in a tree. I'm an artist, but not the pixel-pushing > type, so maybe Bob's artist can have a go at this? This has been mentioned a few times already, but the apple is not a static part of the logo. > Also, I like the fact that using the X is pointing to where > MacPython's future is. (Hmm, maybe a big X made of chocolate -> Cocoa? > This is pointing to an old Dutch tradition, so Jack, Just and Guido > might like it..) > > Arthur > ps: for the curious, you can see my quick mockups at > http://artifacial.org/tmp/ No offense, I don't like the idea of associating a foot with my programming language. I like that less than the 16ton weight. -bob From bob at redivi.com Sat Nov 8 12:42:45 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sat Nov 8 12:42:57 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: References: <3FA94D6C.2DCA4030@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Nov 8, 2003, at 12:19 PM, Arthur Elsenaar wrote: > > Hi, > > another comment about the icon issue.. > > Someone wrote: > >>> > OK, compromise. What we need is a friendly, totemic, 16 ton >>> snake. >>> >>> With a big foot that squashes things? Sort of an upside-down >>> Trogdor... >> >> Excellent. I second this. > > I thought about this too and like the fact that we can get away from > the (terrible..) Apple logo. I did some graphic design today with a > big monty python foot squashing a big X. > > And indeed, isn't Apple about big X's these days? What versions did we > have till now: Aqua blue, Jaguar skin and brushed metal. This made me > think of having a big X with a python skin.. but, that wouldn't > communicate clearly enough, because it's too subtle. So why don't we > go back to Bob's proposal, but exchange the Apple with a big X. > > Maybe even better, have the snake (with glasses 8-) curled up -in- the > X, like hanging in a tree. I'm an artist, but not the pixel-pushing > type, so maybe Bob's artist can have a go at this? This has been mentioned a few times already, but the apple is not a static part of the logo. > Also, I like the fact that using the X is pointing to where > MacPython's future is. (Hmm, maybe a big X made of chocolate -> Cocoa? > This is pointing to an old Dutch tradition, so Jack, Just and Guido > might like it..) > > Arthur > ps: for the curious, you can see my quick mockups at > http://artifacial.org/tmp/ No offense, I don't like the idea of associating a foot with my programming language. I like that less than the 16ton weight. -bob From artelse at mohr-i.nl Sat Nov 8 16:55:35 2003 From: artelse at mohr-i.nl (Arthur Elsenaar) Date: Sat Nov 8 16:55:22 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux In-Reply-To: References: <3FA94D6C.2DCA4030@pobox.com> Message-ID: <47E6249F-1236-11D8-A34B-000393825740@mohr-i.nl> Bob Ippolito wrote: > No offense, I don't like the idea of associating a foot with my > programming language. I like that less than the 16ton weight. I don't like it either, it's there to show the people here that liked something with a big foot, that it doesn't work. Besides, I'm not easily offended anyway, it's just I don't like the religious connotations Apple has. It's this and Guy Kawasaki, the Apple _evangelist_, that kept me from using Apple hardware and software for some time.. Guy seems to be ousted when Jobs arrived.. thank g*d. Arthur From ashearer at shearersoftware.com Sat Nov 8 18:50:05 2003 From: ashearer at shearersoftware.com (Andrew Shearer) Date: Sat Nov 8 18:50:19 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Panther and Quartz scripting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47427F22-1246-11D8-8AE0-000393B3AC06@shearersoftware.com> I've been trying out the new Python scripting support for Quartz graphics in 10.3. I have it successfully taking 4-megapixel JPEG files and writing out smaller versions with impressive speed (65 per minute, compared with 8 per minute with PIL under Jaguar). However, I don't know what to pass to set the quality level--the most promising parameter seems to be undocumented. It's the optional "params" argument, which wants a string. Pass it a non-string, and it throws back an exception. So I've tried randomly throwing strings at it, which results in no change to the output whatsoever. More detail and my current Python/Quartz source code are at: http://www.shearersoftware.com/personal/weblog/2003/11/08/ -- Andrew Shearer http://www.shearersoftware.com/ From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Sat Nov 8 18:55:28 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Sat Nov 8 18:55:32 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] new user with round-a-bout questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <07349324-1247-11D8-AA0F-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> On 8-nov-03, at 3:13, Byron Amerson wrote: > oh. > > Wow, my system is really broke? Things seem to work fine otherwise. > wow. > should I just update or do a complete reinstall? OK I'll reinstall. > Live > and learn. Thank You Bob. It's broken, but not all *that* broken: Python is used somewhere in the PDF workflow, but no-one has yet been able to tell me where, and how I could see it. But there are other parts of /System that will cause things to break much more spectacularly. As you're going to reinstall anyway you might want to experiment with removing /System/Library/Frameworks altogether, I would be surprised if that wasn't spectacular:-) (Note: I am not serious! I am not serious! I am not serious! Please do not remove anything from /System, even if you intend to reinstall shortly, unless you do not value the data on your drive at all). -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Sat Nov 8 18:56:37 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Sat Nov 8 18:56:40 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Second build of MacPython additions for Panther In-Reply-To: <03Nov7.150051pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> References: <03Nov7.150051pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> Message-ID: <306EB948-1247-11D8-AA0F-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> On 8-nov-03, at 0:00, Bill Janssen wrote: > I've just downloaded this (using OmniWeb 4.5), but when I try to mount > the image I get a pop-up with > > The following disk images failed to mount: > > MacPython-Panther-2.3-2.dmg | Error -199 > > What's up? What's the checksum for this dmg? Is anyone else seeing this? Anyone else using OmniWeb? -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From k at eboy.com Sat Nov 8 19:19:19 2003 From: k at eboy.com (Kai Vermehr) Date: Sat Nov 8 19:19:32 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Xcode & Python Message-ID: <5C58C23E-124A-11D8-B2ED-000A9569B09E@eboy.com> Hello list! I'm new to Python. I'm looking for a good tool to write and check scripts. Just read that Xcode seems to support Python but I can't find any issues about Python in Xcodes help. Also I've been on the PythonMac.org wiki and downloaded and unpacked XPython but couldn't see any changes ... Can anyone help me how to start ... using the terminal alone is a pain. thanks! -- 'K:) -- Kai Vermehr | eBoy http://www.eboy.com From cclark at ziclix.com Sat Nov 8 18:16:58 2003 From: cclark at ziclix.com (chuck clark) Date: Sat Nov 8 21:16:07 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Second build of MacPython additions for Panther In-Reply-To: <306EB948-1247-11D8-AA0F-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> References: <03Nov7.150051pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> <306EB948-1247-11D8-AA0F-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <20031108231658.GA20675@namche.sevenelephants.com> > > Is anyone else seeing this? Anyone else using OmniWeb? I downloaded it last night on a fresh Panther install using Safari and everything worked as expected. So far no issues to report. chuck From bob at redivi.com Sat Nov 8 21:45:08 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sat Nov 8 21:45:19 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Second build of MacPython additions for Panther In-Reply-To: <306EB948-1247-11D8-AA0F-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> References: <03Nov7.150051pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> <306EB948-1247-11D8-AA0F-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: On Nov 8, 2003, at 6:56 PM, Jack Jansen wrote: > > On 8-nov-03, at 0:00, Bill Janssen wrote: > >> I've just downloaded this (using OmniWeb 4.5), but when I try to mount >> the image I get a pop-up with >> >> The following disk images failed to mount: >> >> MacPython-Panther-2.3-2.dmg | Error -199 >> >> What's up? What's the checksum for this dmg? > > Is anyone else seeing this? Anyone else using OmniWeb? I think Bill Janssen is the one that uses UFS or NFS or something.. maybe it's one of Apple's bugs? I have also downloaded this dmg (with safari) and have had no problems. -bob From kevino at tulane.edu Sun Nov 9 00:26:35 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Sun Nov 9 00:31:41 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] wxPython for Panther test build In-Reply-To: References: <227211C9-11B1-11D8-A2DA-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Message-ID: <48EE2B15-1275-11D8-A2DA-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Hi Bob (and all), On Nov 7, 2003, at 11:04 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > On Nov 8, 2003, at 1:02 AM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: > >> I've finally finished with a test build of wxPython for Panther! >> Please try it and let me know if it installs and runs OK with Apple's >> Python. After I get some confirmations, I'll post the release to SF >> so that Robin can make it official! >> >> http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpython/wxPythonOSX-2.4.2.4- >> Py2.3-panther-1.dmg > > Uh, your installer whacks the symlink at > /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ > python2.3/site-packages .. and the files aren't all chgrp admin; chmod > g+w admin. This is bad! wxPython basically f'ed up an otherwise > perfect python installation :) > > Make your installer just put stuff into /Library/Python/2.3 instead of > site-packages to prevent this from happening. Thank you for pointing this out! I have now posted a kinder, gentler installer that puts things into /Library/Python/2.3. It is available at: http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpython/wxPythonOSX-2.4.2.4-Py2.3- panther-2.dmg > Performance is kinda.. eh. On a 1ghz pbg4 PyShell takes up 100% CPU > when I'm typing and it can't keep up with me. A display update after > resizing the RunDemo app takes 1-2 seconds. Yes, wxSTC (the editor used for PyShell, etc.) has performance problems on Mac and I believe Robin has done some work to address this in the 2.5 codebase. There have also been some changes to event handling (including idle event handling) and other improvements which will hopefully improve overall performance. I'm not sure when the first 2.5 release will be out, but I will keep folks posted when there is an update. =) Thanks, Kevin From mbier at office-m.at Sun Nov 9 06:31:28 2003 From: mbier at office-m.at (Markus Biermaier) Date: Sun Nov 9 06:31:34 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyQt 3.8.1 on MacOS X 10.1 hobbles Message-ID: <4258A696-12A8-11D8-BEF3-0005029F2DC3@office-m.at> Hello, My Application ("ImageBrowser") was developed with focus FOR the Sharp Zaurus and works fine. It was compiled ON a Linux-PC and hence works also on Linux. The third platform (my main platform) I'm working on is MacOS. I've got it running on MacOS 10.1 and have a strange phenomen: ------------------------------ [ BEGIN Python-RuntimeError ] ------------------------------ markus@macosbw:~/Packs/PyQt-mac-gpl-snapshot-20031027/examples3 > aclock.py Traceback (most recent call last): File "./aclock.py", line 4, in ? from qt import * RuntimeError: Attempt to create a Python instance for a NULL pointer ------------------------------ [ END Python-RuntimeError ] ------------------------------ If I do "import qtui" before the "from qt import *" qt imports OK. So my fix for all PyQt files looks like this and works: ------------------------------ [ BEGIN Head of 'aclock.py' ] ------------------------------ #!/usr/bin/env python import sys import qtui from qt import * def QMIN(x, y): if y > x: return y return x ------------------------------ [ END Head of 'aclock.py' ] ------------------------------ Of course I launch the application from the shell via "open *.py". This works fine. My configuration: OS: MacOS X 10.1.5 QT: qt-mac-free-3.2.2 PyQt: PyQt-mac-gpl-snapshot-20031027 Sip: sip-mac-gpl-4.0pre3 Any ideas? Perhaps someone knows this behavio(u)r.... Thanks in advance Markus BTW: ImageBrowser is ready for download: http://www.office-m.at/pc-pages/image_browser ---------------------------------------------------------------------- M. Biermaier mbier AT office-m.at Wiesengasse 15 3011 Untertullnerbach Austria / Europe Web Site: http://www.office-m.at From bob at redivi.com Sun Nov 9 07:14:38 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sun Nov 9 07:14:49 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyQt 3.8.1 on MacOS X 10.1 hobbles In-Reply-To: <4258A696-12A8-11D8-BEF3-0005029F2DC3@office-m.at> References: <4258A696-12A8-11D8-BEF3-0005029F2DC3@office-m.at> Message-ID: <4A43546B-12AE-11D8-917A-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 9, 2003, at 6:31 AM, Markus Biermaier wrote: > Hello, > > My Application ("ImageBrowser") was developed with focus FOR the Sharp > Zaurus and works fine. > It was compiled ON a Linux-PC and hence works also on Linux. > > The third platform (my main platform) I'm working on is MacOS. > I've got it running on MacOS 10.1 and have a strange phenomen: > > ------------------------------ [ BEGIN Python-RuntimeError ] > ------------------------------ > markus@macosbw:~/Packs/PyQt-mac-gpl-snapshot-20031027/examples3 > > aclock.py > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "./aclock.py", line 4, in ? > from qt import * > RuntimeError: Attempt to create a Python instance for a NULL pointer > ------------------------------ [ END Python-RuntimeError ] > ------------------------------ > > If I do "import qtui" before the "from qt import *" qt imports OK. > So my fix for all PyQt files looks like this and works: > > ------------------------------ [ BEGIN Head of 'aclock.py' ] > ------------------------------ > #!/usr/bin/env python > > import sys > import qtui > from qt import * > > def QMIN(x, y): > if y > x: return y > return x > ------------------------------ [ END Head of 'aclock.py' ] > ------------------------------ > > Of course I launch the application from the shell via "open *.py". > This works fine. > > My configuration: > OS: MacOS X 10.1.5 > QT: qt-mac-free-3.2.2 > PyQt: PyQt-mac-gpl-snapshot-20031027 > Sip: sip-mac-gpl-4.0pre3 > > Any ideas? Perhaps someone knows this behavio(u)r.... I didn't know anyone still used 10.1 :) Most of us are only used to looking at 10.2 issues, and many of us, including myself, have moved to 10.3. Nobody mentioned that PyQt and Sip were finally available for Mac, at least not on this list, so I don't think anyone here is familiar with it yet. This bug sounds specific to PyQt Mac, but maybe it's something to do with 10.1 and whatever version of Python you are using. If you don't run a python script from an executable bundle, it won't be able to do GUI stuff (unless it calls undocumented private Apple APIs), so that may have something to do with the problem you're seeing. You might have a pythonw script that will do this, but you don't mention which version of Python you are using. -bob From bob at redivi.com Sun Nov 9 07:18:58 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sun Nov 9 07:19:11 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyQt 3.8.1 on MacOS X 10.1 hobbles In-Reply-To: <4A43546B-12AE-11D8-917A-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <4258A696-12A8-11D8-BEF3-0005029F2DC3@office-m.at> <4A43546B-12AE-11D8-917A-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: On Nov 9, 2003, at 7:14 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Nov 9, 2003, at 6:31 AM, Markus Biermaier wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> My Application ("ImageBrowser") was developed with focus FOR the >> Sharp Zaurus and works fine. >> It was compiled ON a Linux-PC and hence works also on Linux. >> >> The third platform (my main platform) I'm working on is MacOS. >> I've got it running on MacOS 10.1 and have a strange phenomen: >> >> ------------------------------ [ BEGIN Python-RuntimeError ] >> ------------------------------ >> markus@macosbw:~/Packs/PyQt-mac-gpl-snapshot-20031027/examples3 > >> aclock.py >> Traceback (most recent call last): >> File "./aclock.py", line 4, in ? >> from qt import * >> RuntimeError: Attempt to create a Python instance for a NULL pointer >> ------------------------------ [ END Python-RuntimeError ] >> ------------------------------ >> >> If I do "import qtui" before the "from qt import *" qt imports OK. >> So my fix for all PyQt files looks like this and works: >> >> ------------------------------ [ BEGIN Head of 'aclock.py' ] >> ------------------------------ >> #!/usr/bin/env python >> >> import sys >> import qtui >> from qt import * >> >> def QMIN(x, y): >> if y > x: return y >> return x >> ------------------------------ [ END Head of 'aclock.py' ] >> ------------------------------ >> >> Of course I launch the application from the shell via "open *.py". >> This works fine. >> >> My configuration: >> OS: MacOS X 10.1.5 >> QT: qt-mac-free-3.2.2 >> PyQt: PyQt-mac-gpl-snapshot-20031027 >> Sip: sip-mac-gpl-4.0pre3 >> >> Any ideas? Perhaps someone knows this behavio(u)r.... > > I didn't know anyone still used 10.1 :) Most of us are only used to > looking at 10.2 issues, and many of us, including myself, have moved > to 10.3. > > Nobody mentioned that PyQt and Sip were finally available for Mac, at > least not on this list, so I don't think anyone here is familiar with > it yet. This bug sounds specific to PyQt Mac, but maybe it's > something to do with 10.1 and whatever version of Python you are > using. > > If you don't run a python script from an executable bundle, it won't > be able to do GUI stuff (unless it calls undocumented private Apple > APIs), so that may have something to do with the problem you're > seeing. You might have a pythonw script that will do this, but you > don't mention which version of Python you are using. Also note that there are newer versions of the PyQt snapshot and SIP available for Mac, so try that first. -bob From marlong at rogers.com Sun Nov 9 07:27:57 2003 From: marlong at rogers.com (Marlon A. Griffith) Date: Sun Nov 9 07:28:03 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [newbie] Question about mod_psp with Apache and MacPython 2.3.x under 10.2.6 In-Reply-To: <8DEE27E6-11C8-11D8-AD77-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <12DDCFDA-11AC-11D8-92AB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <8DEE27E6-11C8-11D8-AD77-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the info guys. I have lots to study. 8 - ) At 3:50 AM -0500 11/8/03, Bob Ippolito wrote: >For 10.3, use -undefined dynamic_lookup WITHOUT -flat_namespace .. I >posted about this a few hours ago. -flat_namespace is only for 10.1 >and (sparingly) for 10.2, 10.3 should not use it. Chances are, it >can be fixed so that you don't need either, but this would be the >interim solution. > >And wow, I totally forgot that I had compiled mod_python for apache2 >so long ago :) I don't use that stuff anymore, I used to have some >code that ran on mod_python, but I moved it to Twisted. > >-bob > >On Nov 8, 2003, at 3:37 AM, Brian Lenihan wrote: > >> >>On Nov 7, 2003, at 9:26 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: >> >>>Maybe it is part of mod_python now, I didn't look at their CVS, >>>but that's a different question entirely :) I'm not sure that >>>mod_python would work too well on stock OS X, because Apache 1.3.x >>>will not work with a threaded Python, so you'd have to build your >>>own. It's just a big mess, I've done it before, I don't recommend >>>it. >> >>It's not that bad, if you install Apache2: >>Apache/2.0.48 (Unix) DAV/2 mod_gzip/2.0.26.1a mod_python/3.1.2b >>Python/2.3.2+ Server at 127.0.0.1 Port 80 >> >>I configured apache for my needs like this: >>./configure -enable-so --enable-mods-shared=all --with-mpm=worker >>--enable-proxy --enable-cache --enable-disk_cache --enable-expires >> >>most people can probably skip everything after --with-mpm=worker >> >>I configured mod_python like this: [1] >>./configure --with-apxs=/usr/local/apache2/bin/apxs >>--with-python=/usr/local/bin/python >>make >>cd src >> >>apxs still doesn't work well with Frameworks, so make a shell >>script and run it [2]: >> >>--- >>#!/bin/sh >> >>MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.3 >> >>gcc -r -keep_private_externs -nostdlib -o >>.libs/mod_python.so-master.o hlistobject.lo hlist.lo >>filterobject.lo connobject.lo serverobject.lo util.lo >>tableobject.lo requestobject.lo _apachemodule.lo mod_python.lo && >>gcc -bundle -flat_namespace -undefined dynamic_lookup -o >>.libs/mod_python.so .libs/mod_python.so-master.o >>-L/Library/Frameworks/../../Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/config >>-lm -lc -F. -framework Python -framework System -framework >>CoreServices -framework Foundation >>--- >> >>cd .. >>sudo make install >> >>add the usual mod_python stuff to httpd.conf >> >>[1] I am using Python 2.3 from the release23-maint branch, but I'm >>not aware of any reason this would not work with Apple's python >>(/usr/bin/python). >>[2] found something close to this on Bob's advogato page [3] a >>while back, but never tried it until now. >>[3] http://www.advogato.org/person/etrepum/diary.html?start=2 -- Make it a great day! kalyxsis@rogers.com http://members.rogers.com/kalyxsis "We move ahead by going deeper." Jennifer James (1943- ) American Writer "Don't let your schooling interfere with your education." Mark Twain "Do not parrot the words of famous people. Learn the meaning of what they say and repeat it in your own words." Mark Twain (not an exact quote). From mbier at office-m.at Sun Nov 9 08:06:58 2003 From: mbier at office-m.at (Markus Biermaier) Date: Sun Nov 9 08:07:03 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyQt 3.8.1 on MacOS X 10.1 hobbles In-Reply-To: <4A43546B-12AE-11D8-917A-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <99E0642C-12B5-11D8-8F4F-0005029F2DC3@office-m.at> Am Sonntag den, 9. November 2003, um 13:14, schrieb Bob Ippolito: > > On Nov 9, 2003, at 6:31 AM, Markus Biermaier wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> My Application ("ImageBrowser") was developed with focus FOR the Sharp >> Zaurus and works fine. >> It was compiled ON a Linux-PC and hence works also on Linux. >> >> The third platform (my main platform) I'm working on is MacOS. >> I've got it running on MacOS 10.1 and have a strange phenomen: >> >> ------------------------------ [ BEGIN >> Python-RuntimeError ] ------------------------------ >> markus@macosbw:~/Packs/PyQt-mac-gpl-snapshot-20031027/examples3 > >> aclock.py >> Traceback (most recent call last): >> File "./aclock.py", line 4, in ? >> from qt import * >> RuntimeError: Attempt to create a Python instance for a NULL pointer >> ------------------------------ [ END >> Python-RuntimeError ] ------------------------------ >> >> If I do "import qtui" before the "from qt import *" qt imports OK. >> So my fix for all PyQt files looks like this and works: >> >> ------------------------------ [ BEGIN Head of >> 'aclock.py' ] ------------------------------ >> #!/usr/bin/env python >> >> import sys >> import qtui >> from qt import * >> >> def QMIN(x, y): >> if y > x: return y >> return x >> ------------------------------ [ END Head of >> 'aclock.py' ] ------------------------------ >> >> Of course I launch the application from the shell via "open *.py". >> This works fine. >> >> My configuration: >> OS: MacOS X 10.1.5 >> QT: qt-mac-free-3.2.2 >> PyQt: PyQt-mac-gpl-snapshot-20031027 >> Sip: sip-mac-gpl-4.0pre3 >> >> Any ideas? Perhaps someone knows this behavio(u)r.... > > I didn't know anyone still used 10.1 :) Most of us are only used to > looking at 10.2 issues, and many of us, including myself, have moved to > 10.3. Jaguar and Panther ... you are right, but if an application runs easy on 10.1. also, why not. BTW. I'm fighting with my DiskSpace, so I want to keep the Panther out for a little time ;-) > Nobody mentioned that PyQt and Sip were finally available for Mac, at > least not on this list, so I don't think anyone here is familiar with > it yet. This bug sounds specific to PyQt Mac, but maybe it's something > to do with 10.1 and whatever version of Python you are using. I think PyQt for the Mac is not yet official supported. Also Sip is pre-release (pre3). I contacted Phil Thompson the person behind PyQt (I think) with this problem and he told me only to ask the list. I forgot to mention that I use Python-2.3.2. > If you don't run a python script from an executable bundle, it won't be > able to do GUI stuff (unless it calls undocumented private Apple APIs), > so that may have something to do with the problem you're seeing. You > might have a pythonw script that will do this, but you don't mention > which version of Python you are using. I find it cool to call a python script simply with "open *.py" from the shell. It DOES GUI stuff. I think the "open" program is a clever Apple program and does perhaps "undocumented private Apple APIs"!? Your second response: Am Sonntag den, 9. November 2003, um 13:18, schrieb Bob Ippolito: > > Also note that there are newer versions of the PyQt snapshot and SIP > available for Mac, so try that first. Ok I will try the newer snapshots, but I thought that Phil would give me the tip, if the problem is a known / fixed issue... It took me *hours* and *days* on my BlueWhite G3 to compile QT, Python, readline, Sip and PyQt... Anyway many thanks for your fast response. Markus ---------------------------------------------------------------------- M. Biermaier mbier AT office-m.at Wiesengasse 15 3011 Untertullnerbach Austria / Europe Web Site: http://www.office-m.at From mikelem at iastate.edu Mon Nov 10 02:53:37 2003 From: mikelem at iastate.edu (Jeff Groves) Date: Mon Nov 10 02:53:44 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Trouble Installing wxPythonOSX Message-ID: <37531101010313130@webmail.iastate.edu> My online RPG group wants to convert to OpenRPG, which uses wxPython, so I've been trying to get it installed. However, I can't. It gets 99% through the installation and then a message pops up saying that there were errors in the installation. Has anyone else had this problem and knows how to bypass it? I'm using an iBook with 10.3 installed. It also has the Classic environment (OS 9.2). I've already applied the latest updates to MacPython. Let me know if you need any more info to figure this out. -Mike Lemmer From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Mon Nov 10 05:46:00 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Mon Nov 10 05:45:53 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyQt 3.8.1 on MacOS X 10.1 hobbles In-Reply-To: <99E0642C-12B5-11D8-8F4F-0005029F2DC3@office-m.at> References: <99E0642C-12B5-11D8-8F4F-0005029F2DC3@office-m.at> Message-ID: <129B1130-136B-11D8-9BFC-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> On 9 Nov 2003, at 14:06, Markus Biermaier wrote: > I think PyQt for the Mac is not yet official supported. Also Sip is > pre-release (pre3). I contacted Phil Thompson the person behind PyQt > (I think) with this problem and he told me only to ask the list. > I forgot to mention that I use Python-2.3.2. > >> If you don't run a python script from an executable bundle, it won't >> be able to do GUI stuff (unless it calls undocumented private Apple >> APIs), so that may have something to do with the problem you're >> seeing. You might have a pythonw script that will do this, but you >> don't mention which version of Python you are using. > > I find it cool to call a python script simply with "open *.py" from > the shell. It DOES GUI stuff. I think the "open" program is a clever > Apple program and does perhaps "undocumented private Apple APIs"!? If you've built Python 2.3.2 with --enable-framework then "open file.py" will open file.py with the PythonLauncher helper program, which will in turn run "pythonw" to run your script. So then everything should be okay, as far as the GUI stuff is concerned. Which means that (if the above paragraph holds for you) the problem is elsewhere. I would second Bob's suggestion to move to 10.2, because that's the standard OSX version right now, so any PyQt and Qt development will in all likelyhood have been done on that platform. The fact that changing the order of imports makes the problem disappear seems to point in the direction of something fishy going on in the area of dynamic linking. The OSX model of dynamic linking is different from what many unixen provide, and there are some tricks that packages with a unix background used that needed some massaging to port to MacOSX. Moreover, this sort of massaging tended to break between 10.1 and 10.2. As an example, some package (wxPython, I think, but I'm not sure) had a dynamic module A that exported a symbol Asym. A subsequently loaded dynamic module B would then link to this symbol Asym. This will not work on 10.2 and later without various linker flags, and Apple discourages uses of those flags. If you run the script with "pythonw -v" you'll see the modules being imported. This may help you pinpoint the exact module that needs to be loaded before anything else, which may indicate where the problem is. If you need more help from the mailing list then you should probably post the full stacktrace, plus the output of the build process of PyQt (since it'll allow us to inspect the linker flags used). But again, unless you move to at least 10.2 few people here will be able to reproduce what you do. -- Jack Jansen http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From k at eboy.com Mon Nov 10 05:51:57 2003 From: k at eboy.com (Kai Vermehr) Date: Mon Nov 10 05:52:21 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python Editor for Mac Message-ID: I'm starting with Python on Mac and I'm searching for an editor. BBedit seems to be the best choice at this moment ... but are there alternatives? How about Xcode, SubEthaEdit or others? Any advice is welcome ... thanks! -- 'K:) -- Kai Vermehr | eBoy http://www.eboy.com From nbastin at opnet.com Mon Nov 10 06:10:25 2003 From: nbastin at opnet.com (Nick Bastin) Date: Mon Nov 10 06:10:49 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python Editor for Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7BD54FA4-136E-11D8-ADBB-000393CBDF94@opnet.com> On Nov 10, 2003, at 5:51 AM, Kai Vermehr wrote: > I'm starting with Python on Mac and I'm searching for an editor. > BBedit seems to be the best choice at this moment ... but are there > alternatives? How about Xcode, SubEthaEdit or others? I use vim (http://www.vim.org), but I'm a unix user. Other unix users use Emacs, which is equally arcane.. :-) As far as native mac editors, Xcode's built-in editor doesn't seem too bad, and BBEdit does a good job. SubEthaEdit is very cool for collaborative environments, but unless that's of great benefit to you, the programming features probably need a bit more work before it should be used as a standalone editor. There's also Alpha (http://www.maths.mq.edu.au/~steffen/Alpha/AlphaX/), which is a great mac editor, extensible in TCL. -- Nick From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Mon Nov 10 06:25:55 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Mon Nov 10 06:25:43 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Conflict between libjpeg in wxPython and PIL In-Reply-To: <4FECDEAE-1135-11D8-AF05-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <20031106194707.GA90002@uiuc.edu> <1FC92D6E-110B-11D8-BFFE-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> <6B9E0266-1134-11D8-896F-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl> <4FECDEAE-1135-11D8-AF05-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: On 7 Nov 2003, at 16:16, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Nov 7, 2003, at 10:09 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > >> >> On 7 nov 2003, at 15:51, Bob Ippolito wrote: >>> >>> It links against libtiff, and has a patch applied to the sources.. >>> it was mentioned to this list a while back, search for "TIFF Group >>> 4", the patch itself is at: >>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/image-sig/2003-July/002354.html >>> >>> Also, I have mine linking against freetype as well, are you doing >>> that? >> >> Do you have a kind of meta-packman that contains information about >> how to build the binary packages? > > I am the meta-packman :) Generally I just make sure I have all the > correct stuff installed, sometimes I modify the setup.py (or create > one, that just puts the .so and .py files in the right place, in the > case of metakit or something). There is no meta-packman yet, but it is definitely needed. I tend to think of this as the supplier-side of the PackMan architecture, the things that help the scapegoat to recreate everything from scratch (or that will help someone else take over if the scapegoat is hit by a bus). For my database the problem is less than for Bob's, because I include the source builds too (and the binary builds are always created from the source builds in the database), and if at all possible I try to do the source build from the official tarbal of the package. >> BTW. the pimp module doesn't seem smart enough to build packages that >> require multiple source achives (such as PIL + libjpeg + freetype). > > That's why I only really bother with binary archives.. last I checked, > the pimp module also isn't smart enough to build something that needs > any other steps happen before setup.py (like with PIL's libImaging), > so I think Jack is using one with a modified setup.py. PackMan cannot handle downloading multiple source archives, but it can handle steps that need to happen before or after setup.py. See the build procedure for PIL from source in the official database, for instance. -- Jack Jansen http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From mbier at office-m.at Mon Nov 10 06:32:29 2003 From: mbier at office-m.at (Markus Biermaier) Date: Mon Nov 10 06:32:42 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyQt 3.8.1 on MacOS X 10.1 hobbles In-Reply-To: <129B1130-136B-11D8-9BFC-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <91642A0A-1371-11D8-9061-0005029F2DC3@office-m.at> Am Montag den, 10. November 2003, um 11:46, schrieb Jack Jansen: > > On 9 Nov 2003, at 14:06, Markus Biermaier wrote: >> I think PyQt for the Mac is not yet official supported. Also Sip is >> pre-release (pre3). I contacted Phil Thompson the person behind PyQt >> (I think) with this problem and he told me only to ask the list. >> I forgot to mention that I use Python-2.3.2. >> >>> If you don't run a python script from an executable bundle, it won't >>> be able to do GUI stuff (unless it calls undocumented private Apple >>> APIs), so that may have something to do with the problem you're >>> seeing. You might have a pythonw script that will do this, but you >>> don't mention which version of Python you are using. >> >> I find it cool to call a python script simply with "open *.py" from >> the shell. It DOES GUI stuff. I think the "open" program is a clever >> Apple program and does perhaps "undocumented private Apple APIs"!? > > If you've built Python 2.3.2 with --enable-framework then "open > file.py" will open file.py with the PythonLauncher helper program, > which will in turn run "pythonw" to run your script. So then everything > should be okay, as far as the GUI stuff is concerned. > > Which means that (if the above paragraph holds for you) the problem is > elsewhere. I would second Bob's suggestion to move to 10.2, because > that's the standard OSX version right now, so any PyQt and Qt > development will in all likelyhood have been done on that platform. > > The fact that changing the order of imports makes the problem disappear > seems to point in the direction of something fishy going on in the area > of dynamic linking. The OSX model of dynamic linking is different from > what many unixen provide, and there are some tricks that packages with > a unix background used that needed some massaging to port to MacOSX. > Moreover, this sort of massaging tended to break between 10.1 and 10.2. > As an example, some package (wxPython, I think, but I'm not sure) had a > dynamic module A that exported a symbol Asym. A subsequently loaded > dynamic module B would then link to this symbol Asym. This will not > work on 10.2 and later without various linker flags, and Apple > discourages uses of those flags. > > If you run the script with "pythonw -v" you'll see the modules being > imported. This may help you pinpoint the exact module that needs to be > loaded before anything else, which may indicate where the problem is. > > If you need more help from the mailing list then you should probably > post the full stacktrace, plus the output of the build process of PyQt > (since it'll allow us to inspect the linker flags used). But again, > unless you move to at least 10.2 few people here will be able to > reproduce what you do. > -- > Jack Jansen http://www.cwi.nl/~jack > If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma > Goldman Thanks for your explainations. Following: - the result of "pythonw -v" -- with error - the result of "pythonw -v" -- with workaround (error catched) - Source-location of error-message - Incomplete output of build of PyQt (as you see it took hours to build) From a build I usually keep only o the command line with possible flags o the times (to estimate the time for the next build) o any errors. I'm sorry but I didn't keep the full output (with the linker flags). Many thanks for your help. ------------------------------ [ BEGIN Python-RuntimeError-Fails ] ------------------------------ # installing zipimport hook import zipimport # builtin # installed zipimport hook # /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site.pyc matches /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site.py import site # precompiled from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site.pyc # /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/os.pyc matches /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/os.py import os # precompiled from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/os.pyc import posix # builtin # /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/posixpath. pyc matches /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/posixpath. py import posixpath # precompiled from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/posixpath. pyc # /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/stat.pyc matches /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/stat.py import stat # precompiled from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/stat.pyc # /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/UserDict.pyc matches /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/UserDict.py import UserDict # precompiled from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/UserDict.pyc # /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/copy_reg.pyc matches /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/copy_reg.py import copy_reg # precompiled from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/copy_reg.pyc # /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/types.pyc matches /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/types.py import types # precompiled from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/types.pyc # /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/warnings.pyc matches /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/warnings.py import warnings # precompiled from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/warnings.pyc # /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/linecache. pyc matches /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/linecache. py import linecache # precompiled from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/linecache. pyc Python 2.3.2 (#10, Nov 4 2003, 20:58:36) [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. import sip # dynamically loaded from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-packages/ sip.so Traceback (most recent call last): File "aclock.py", line 5, in ? from qt import * RuntimeError: Attempt to create a Python instance for a NULL pointer # clear __builtin__._ # clear sys.path # clear sys.argv # clear sys.ps1 # clear sys.ps2 # clear sys.exitfunc # clear sys.exc_type # clear sys.exc_value # clear sys.exc_traceback # clear sys.last_type # clear sys.last_value # clear sys.last_traceback # clear sys.path_hooks # clear sys.path_importer_cache # clear sys.meta_path # restore sys.stdin # restore sys.stdout # restore sys.stderr # cleanup __main__ # cleanup[1] zipimport # cleanup[1] warnings # cleanup[1] signal # cleanup[1] site # cleanup[1] linecache # cleanup[1] posix # cleanup[1] types # cleanup[1] exceptions # cleanup[1] qt # cleanup[2] stat # cleanup[2] copy_reg # cleanup[2] posixpath # cleanup[2] UserDict # cleanup[2] sip # cleanup[2] os # cleanup[2] os.path # cleanup sys # cleanup __builtin__ # cleanup ints: 7 unfreed ints in 6 out of 105 blocks # cleanup floats ------------------------------ [ END Python-RuntimeError-Fails ] ------------------------------ ------------------------------ [ BEGIN Python-RuntimeError-Catched ] ------------------------------ # installing zipimport hook import zipimport # builtin # installed zipimport hook # /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site.pyc matches /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site.py import site # precompiled from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site.pyc # /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/os.pyc matches /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/os.py import os # precompiled from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/os.pyc import posix # builtin # /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/posixpath. pyc matches /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/posixpath. py import posixpath # precompiled from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/posixpath. pyc # /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/stat.pyc matches /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/stat.py import stat # precompiled from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/stat.pyc # /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/UserDict.pyc matches /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/UserDict.py import UserDict # precompiled from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/UserDict.pyc # /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/copy_reg.pyc matches /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/copy_reg.py import copy_reg # precompiled from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/copy_reg.pyc # /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/types.pyc matches /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/types.py import types # precompiled from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/types.pyc # /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/warnings.pyc matches /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/warnings.py import warnings # precompiled from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/warnings.pyc # /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/linecache. pyc matches /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/linecache. py import linecache # precompiled from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/linecache. pyc Python 2.3.2 (#10, Nov 4 2003, 20:58:36) [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. import sip # dynamically loaded from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-packages/ sip.so import qt # dynamically loaded from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-packages/ qt.so import qtui # dynamically loaded from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-packages/ qtui.so Qt: QApplication: Warning argv[0] == 'aclock.py' is relative. In order to dispatch events correctly Mac OS X may require applications to be run with the *full* path to the executable. # clear __builtin__._ # clear sys.path # clear sys.argv # clear sys.ps1 # clear sys.ps2 # clear sys.exitfunc # clear sys.exc_type # clear sys.exc_value # clear sys.exc_traceback # clear sys.last_type # clear sys.last_value # clear sys.last_traceback # clear sys.path_hooks # clear sys.path_importer_cache # clear sys.meta_path # restore sys.stdin # restore sys.stdout # restore sys.stderr # cleanup __main__ # cleanup[1] zipimport # cleanup[1] warnings # cleanup[1] signal # cleanup[1] site # cleanup[1] qtui # cleanup[1] linecache # cleanup[1] posix # cleanup[1] types # cleanup[1] exceptions # cleanup[2] stat # cleanup[2] copy_reg # cleanup[2] posixpath # cleanup[2] UserDict # cleanup[2] sip # cleanup[2] os # cleanup[2] os.path # cleanup[2] qt # cleanup sys # cleanup __builtin__ # cleanup ints: 7 unfreed ints in 6 out of 105 blocks # cleanup floats ------------------------------ [ END Python-RuntimeError-Catched ] ------------------------------ ------------------------------ [ BEGIN snippet of sip-mac- gpl-4.0pre3/siplib/threads.c ] ------------------------------ /* * Convert a new C/C++ pointer to a Python instance. */ PyObject *sip_api_new_cpp_to_self(void *cppPtr,sipWrapperType *type,int flags) { static PyObject *nullargs = NULL; PyObject *self; #ifdef WITH_THREAD threadDef *td; #endif if (nullargs == NULL && (nullargs = PyTuple_New(0)) == NULL) return NULL; if (cppPtr == NULL) { PyErr_SetString(PyExc_RuntimeError,"Attempt to create a Python instance for a NULL pointer"); return NULL; } #ifdef WITH_THREAD if ((td = currentThreadDef()) != NULL) { td -> cppPending = cppPtr; td -> cppPendingFlags = flags; } else { cppPending = cppPtr; cppPendingFlags = flags; } #else cppPending = cppPtr; cppPendingFlags = flags; #endif self = PyObject_Call((PyObject *)type,nullargs,NULL); #ifdef WITH_THREAD if (td != NULL) td -> cppPending = NULL; else cppPending = NULL; #else cppPending = NULL; #endif return self; } ------------------------------ [ END snippet of sip-mac- gpl-4.0pre3/siplib/threads.c ] ------------------------------ ------------------------------ [ BEGIN PyQt-mac-gpl- snapshot-20031027/.BuildResults ] ------------------------------ time python build.py ... The build of the PyQt source code for your system is now complete. To compile and install PyQt run "make" and "make install" with appropriate user privileges. ************************************************************************** **** real 9m19.768s user 6m41.390s sys 0m50.870s time sudo make real 113m46.472s user 97m41.050s sys 3m41.520s time sudo make install real 0m13.600s user 0m2.600s sys 0m2.290s ------------------------------ [ END PyQt-mac-gpl- snapshot-20031027/.BuildResults ] ------------------------------ Markus ---------------------------------------------------------------------- M. Biermaier mbier AT office-m.at Wiesengasse 15 3011 Untertullnerbach Austria / Europe Web Site: http://www.office-m.at From k at eboy.com Mon Nov 10 07:21:21 2003 From: k at eboy.com (Kai Vermehr) Date: Mon Nov 10 07:21:31 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python Editor for Mac /kv In-Reply-To: <7BD54FA4-136E-11D8-ADBB-000393CBDF94@opnet.com> References: <7BD54FA4-136E-11D8-ADBB-000393CBDF94@opnet.com> Message-ID: <64A2873D-1378-11D8-865D-000A9569B09E@eboy.com> I have a question about workflow: how do you test your script. In BBedit you have the choice to select "Run" or "Run in Terminal" in the menu. I can't find this anywhere else. Is it common to open the saved file with the terminal? And what does the seasoned Python developer do to check and debug a script? 'K:? btw: just discovered that VIM already is installed under OS X Panther. On 10.11.2003, at 12:10, Nick Bastin wrote: > > On Nov 10, 2003, at 5:51 AM, Kai Vermehr wrote: > >> I'm starting with Python on Mac and I'm searching for an editor. >> BBedit seems to be the best choice at this moment ... but are there >> alternatives? How about Xcode, SubEthaEdit or others? > > I use vim (http://www.vim.org), but I'm a unix user. Other unix users > use Emacs, which is equally arcane.. :-) As far as native mac > editors, Xcode's built-in editor doesn't seem too bad, and BBEdit does > a good job. SubEthaEdit is very cool for collaborative environments, > but unless that's of great benefit to you, the programming features > probably need a bit more work before it should be used as a standalone > editor. There's also Alpha > (http://www.maths.mq.edu.au/~steffen/Alpha/AlphaX/), which is a great > mac editor, extensible in TCL. > > -- > Nick > From bob at redivi.com Mon Nov 10 07:22:23 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Mon Nov 10 07:22:44 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyQt 3.8.1 on MacOS X 10.1 hobbles In-Reply-To: <91642A0A-1371-11D8-9061-0005029F2DC3@office-m.at> References: <91642A0A-1371-11D8-9061-0005029F2DC3@office-m.at> Message-ID: <8A447330-1378-11D8-B47F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 10, 2003, at 6:32 AM, Markus Biermaier wrote: > Am Montag den, 10. November 2003, um 11:46, schrieb Jack Jansen: > >> On 9 Nov 2003, at 14:06, Markus Biermaier wrote: >>> I think PyQt for the Mac is not yet official supported. Also Sip is >>> pre-release (pre3). I contacted Phil Thompson the person behind PyQt >>> (I think) with this problem and he told me only to ask the list. >>> I forgot to mention that I use Python-2.3.2. >>> >>>> If you don't run a python script from an executable bundle, it >>>> won't be able to do GUI stuff (unless it calls undocumented private >>>> Apple APIs), so that may have something to do with the problem >>>> you're seeing. You might have a pythonw script that will do this, >>>> but you don't mention which version of Python you are using. >>> >>> I find it cool to call a python script simply with "open *.py" from >>> the shell. It DOES GUI stuff. I think the "open" program is a clever >>> Apple program and does perhaps "undocumented private Apple APIs"!? >> >> If you need more help from the mailing list then you should probably >> post the full stacktrace, plus the output of the build process of >> PyQt (since it'll allow us to inspect the linker flags used). But >> again, unless you move to at least 10.2 few people here will be able >> to reproduce what you do. > > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "aclock.py", line 5, in ? > from qt import * > RuntimeError: Attempt to create a Python instance for a NULL pointer This does not happen with my PyQt on OS X 10.3 ( http://bob.pycs.net/ ). But mine is compiled static, so maybe that's why? > Qt: QApplication: Warning argv[0] == 'aclock.py' is relative. > In order to dispatch events correctly Mac OS X may require > applications to be run with the *full* path to the executable. This warning is actually spurious, this obviously isn't the actual argv[0] I'm not sure what the paste of the thread stuff has to do with anything? Did you compile Qt with or without threads? This is not to say that PyQt works fine though, because it doesn't. It has several crashing bugs with the examples (but the clock example works fine for me) that I didn't really research because this stuff just takes WAY TOO LONG to build. -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031110/1492f6af/smime.bin From nbastin at opnet.com Mon Nov 10 07:30:07 2003 From: nbastin at opnet.com (Nick Bastin) Date: Mon Nov 10 07:30:19 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python Editor for Mac /kv In-Reply-To: <64A2873D-1378-11D8-865D-000A9569B09E@eboy.com> References: <7BD54FA4-136E-11D8-ADBB-000393CBDF94@opnet.com> <64A2873D-1378-11D8-865D-000A9569B09E@eboy.com> Message-ID: <9E132ACE-1379-11D8-ADBB-000393CBDF94@opnet.com> On Nov 10, 2003, at 7:21 AM, Kai Vermehr wrote: > I have a question about workflow: how do you test your script. In > BBedit you have the choice to select "Run" or "Run in Terminal" in the > menu. I can't find this anywhere else. Is it common to open the saved > file with the terminal? And what does the seasoned Python developer do > to check and debug a script? I use the terminal, although I believe you can build vim with a built-in python interpreter. > btw: just discovered that VIM already is installed under OS X Panther. Is that the cocoa vim, or just the command-line version? -- Nick From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Mon Nov 10 07:35:50 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Mon Nov 10 07:35:39 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyQt 3.8.1 on MacOS X 10.1 hobbles In-Reply-To: <8A447330-1378-11D8-B47F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <91642A0A-1371-11D8-9061-0005029F2DC3@office-m.at> <8A447330-1378-11D8-B47F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <6AC96C0D-137A-11D8-9BFC-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> Markus, first try Bob's suggestions (build qt with thread support, and link statically against the qt stuff). If you still have the problem then: your working example tried >>> import qtui >>> import qt and your non-working example >>> from qt import * Could you try the other two combinations too? I.e. >>> import qtui >>> from qt import * and >>> import qt That's just to localize it, maybe it has something to do with the "import *" in stead of the load order. -- Jack Jansen http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From chris at fonnesbeck.org Mon Nov 10 07:53:59 2003 From: chris at fonnesbeck.org (Christopher Fonnesbeck) Date: Mon Nov 10 07:54:07 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] _tkinter install problems Message-ID: When trying to install the _tkinter2.3 binary from the package manager, I receive an incorrect checksum error. Any resolution to this? Thanks, Chris -- Christopher J. Fonnesbeck ( c h r i s @ f o n n e s b e c k . o r g ) Georgia Cooperative Fish & Wildlife Research Unit, University of Georgia From bob at redivi.com Mon Nov 10 07:57:58 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Mon Nov 10 07:58:09 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python Editor for Mac /kv In-Reply-To: <9E132ACE-1379-11D8-ADBB-000393CBDF94@opnet.com> References: <7BD54FA4-136E-11D8-ADBB-000393CBDF94@opnet.com> <64A2873D-1378-11D8-865D-000A9569B09E@eboy.com> <9E132ACE-1379-11D8-ADBB-000393CBDF94@opnet.com> Message-ID: <8265A7B2-137D-11D8-B47F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 10, 2003, at 7:30 AM, Nick Bastin wrote: > On Nov 10, 2003, at 7:21 AM, Kai Vermehr wrote: > >> I have a question about workflow: how do you test your script. In >> BBedit you have the choice to select "Run" or "Run in Terminal" in >> the menu. I can't find this anywhere else. Is it common to open the >> saved file with the terminal? And what does the seasoned Python >> developer do to check and debug a script? > > I use the terminal, although I believe you can build vim with a > built-in python interpreter. You can, but that's not really for running Python programs. >> btw: just discovered that VIM already is installed under OS X Panther. > > Is that the cocoa vim, or just the command-line version? There is no Cocoa Vim.. there's a Carbon Vim. OS X 10.3 comes with a no-frills command-line version (that works fine for my purposes). -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031110/e859870f/smime.bin From bob at redivi.com Mon Nov 10 08:00:10 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Mon Nov 10 08:00:20 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyQt 3.8.1 on MacOS X 10.1 hobbles In-Reply-To: <6AC96C0D-137A-11D8-9BFC-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> References: <91642A0A-1371-11D8-9061-0005029F2DC3@office-m.at> <8A447330-1378-11D8-B47F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <6AC96C0D-137A-11D8-9BFC-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> Message-ID: On Nov 10, 2003, at 7:35 AM, Jack Jansen wrote: > Markus, > first try Bob's suggestions (build qt with thread support, and link > statically against the > qt stuff). If you still have the problem then: your working example > tried > >>> import qtui > >>> import qt > and your non-working example > >>> from qt import * > Could you try the other two combinations too? I.e. > >>> import qtui > >>> from qt import * > and > >>> import qt > > That's just to localize it, maybe it has something to do with the > "import *" > in stead of the load order. [crack:~] bob% pythonw Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> from qt import * >>> [crack:~] bob% pythonw Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> import qtui >>> import qt >>> from qt import * >>> If you have any problems after compiling static w/threads, then it has to be something to do with the difference b/n 10.1 and 10.3. -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031110/2541e7bd/smime.bin From nbastin at opnet.com Mon Nov 10 08:03:58 2003 From: nbastin at opnet.com (Nick Bastin) Date: Mon Nov 10 08:04:12 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python Editor for Mac /kv In-Reply-To: <8265A7B2-137D-11D8-B47F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <7BD54FA4-136E-11D8-ADBB-000393CBDF94@opnet.com> <64A2873D-1378-11D8-865D-000A9569B09E@eboy.com> <9E132ACE-1379-11D8-ADBB-000393CBDF94@opnet.com> <8265A7B2-137D-11D8-B47F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <591950C0-137E-11D8-ADBB-000393CBDF94@opnet.com> On Nov 10, 2003, at 7:57 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: >>> btw: just discovered that VIM already is installed under OS X >>> Panther. >> >> Is that the cocoa vim, or just the command-line version? > > There is no Cocoa Vim.. there's a Carbon Vim. OS X 10.3 comes with a > no-frills command-line version (that works fine for my purposes). You are correct...I thought I was using an OpenStep port, but indeed, I am using the Carbon port. -- Nick From k at eboy.com Mon Nov 10 08:11:05 2003 From: k at eboy.com (Kai Vermehr) Date: Mon Nov 10 08:11:27 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python Editor for Mac /kv In-Reply-To: <9E132ACE-1379-11D8-ADBB-000393CBDF94@opnet.com> References: <7BD54FA4-136E-11D8-ADBB-000393CBDF94@opnet.com> <64A2873D-1378-11D8-865D-000A9569B09E@eboy.com> <9E132ACE-1379-11D8-ADBB-000393CBDF94@opnet.com> Message-ID: <575E5EF2-137F-11D8-865D-000A9569B09E@eboy.com> yes it's the vim 6.2 command-line version ... On 10.11.2003, at 13:30, Nick Bastin wrote: > >> btw: just discovered that VIM already is installed under OS X Panther. > > Is that the cocoa vim, or just the command-line version? From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Mon Nov 10 10:08:58 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Mon Nov 10 10:08:49 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] _tkinter install problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10 Nov 2003, at 13:53, Christopher Fonnesbeck wrote: > When trying to install the _tkinter2.3 binary from the package > manager, I receive an incorrect checksum error. Any resolution to > this? Yes, I made a mistake when adding a new version of tkinter to the database. It is now fixed. -- Jack Jansen http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From kevino at tulane.edu Mon Nov 10 10:12:37 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Mon Nov 10 10:31:17 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Trouble Installing wxPythonOSX In-Reply-To: <37531101010313130@webmail.iastate.edu> References: <37531101010313130@webmail.iastate.edu> Message-ID: <51D96194-1390-11D8-A2DA-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Hi Mike, Have you tried the installer located at: http://www.theolliviers.com/python/wxpython/wxPythonOSX-2.4.2.4-Py2.3- panther-2.dmg We needed to prepare a new installer for Panther and we have not yet posted it to SourceForge. Thanks, Kevin On Nov 9, 2003, at 11:53 PM, Jeff Groves wrote: > My online RPG group wants to convert to OpenRPG, which uses wxPython, > so I've > been trying to get it installed. However, I can't. It gets 99% through > the > installation and then a message pops up saying that there were errors > in the > installation. Has anyone else had this problem and knows how to bypass > it? > > I'm using an iBook with 10.3 installed. It also has the Classic > environment (OS > 9.2). I've already applied the latest updates to MacPython. Let me > know if you > need any more info to figure this out. > > -Mike Lemmer > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > From grobinson at transpose.com Mon Nov 10 11:23:31 2003 From: grobinson at transpose.com (Gary Robinson) Date: Mon Nov 10 11:23:34 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE on Panther...? Message-ID: Hi, I just downloaded the nov 7 release of Macpython 2.3 For Panther Addons... do I have to separately download tcl or anything in order to get IDLE running? When I try, it crashes on startup and the console has a "No module named PyShell" error. If IDLE is included in Macpython 2.3 For Panther Addons, it seems like it "should" work without requiring other software to be downloaded... --Gary -- Putting http://wecanstopspam.org in your email helps it pass through overzealous spam filters. Gary Robinson CEO Transpose, LLC grobinson@transpose.com 207-942-3463 Company: http://www.transpose.com Blog: http://www.garyrobinson.net From bob at redivi.com Mon Nov 10 11:37:44 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Mon Nov 10 11:37:58 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE on Panther...? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <361D8BBE-139C-11D8-91DA-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 10, 2003, at 11:23 AM, Gary Robinson wrote: > Hi, I just downloaded the nov 7 release of Macpython 2.3 For Panther > Addons... do I have to separately download tcl or anything in order to > get > IDLE running? When I try, it crashes on startup and the console has a > "No > module named PyShell" error. > > If IDLE is included in Macpython 2.3 For Panther Addons, it seems like > it > "should" work without requiring other software to be downloaded... IDLE definitely does require Tcl/Tk ( http://aquatcltk.sf.net/ ) However: /Applications/MacPython-2.3/IDLE.app/Contents/Resources/idlelib/ PyShell.py I wonder what the deal is w/ that. IDLE does work for me though (similar config, but I have Aqua Tcl/Tk), not that I use it. -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031110/5c58756a/smime.bin From mbier at office-m.at Mon Nov 10 12:20:59 2003 From: mbier at office-m.at (Markus Biermaier) Date: Mon Nov 10 12:21:06 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyQt 3.8.1 on MacOS X 10.1 hobbles In-Reply-To: <6AC96C0D-137A-11D8-9BFC-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <40BE5308-13A2-11D8-9A39-0005029F2DC3@office-m.at> Am Montag den, 10. November 2003, um 13:35, schrieb Jack Jansen: > Markus, > first try Bob's suggestions (build qt with thread support, and link > statically against the > qt stuff). If you still have the problem then: your working example > tried > >>> import qtui > >>> import qt That's not correct: ------------------------------ [ BEGIN Head of aclock.py ] ------------------------------ #!/usr/bin/env python import sys import qtui from qt import * def QMIN(x, y): if y > x: return y return x class AnalogClock(QWidget): ------------------------------ [ END Head of aclock.py ] ------------------------------ I commented in/out "import qtui" > and your non-working example > >>> from qt import * > Could you try the other two combinations too? I.e. > >>> import qtui > >>> from qt import * > and > >>> import qt > > That's just to localize it, maybe it has something to do with the > "import *" > in stead of the load order. I can reproduce it even interactive and in every situtation: Interactive: ============ markus@macosbw:~/Python/PyQt/Python-RuntimeError > python Python 2.3.2 (#10, Nov 4 2003, 20:58:36) [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> from qt import * Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in ? RuntimeError: Attempt to create a Python instance for a NULL pointer >>> # OK about 8 secs later second try ... >>> from qt import * >>> # immediately return ... >>> markus@macosbw:~/Python/PyQt/Python-RuntimeError > python Python 2.3.2 (#10, Nov 4 2003, 20:58:36) [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> import qt Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in ? RuntimeError: Attempt to create a Python instance for a NULL pointer >>> # OK about 8 secs later second try ... >>> import qt >>> # immediately return ... >>> As script: ========== ------------------------------ [ BEGIN CheckPython- RuntimeError.py ] ------------------------------ #!/usr/bin/env python # Created: Mon Nov 10 17:55:59 CET 2003 by M. Biermaier on macosbw # Version: Mon Nov 10 17:58:54 CET 2003 on macosbw # $Id: $ import os os.system ("date") try: import qt os.system ("date") except: print "failed" os.system ("date") import qt os.system ("date") ------------------------------ [ END CheckPython- RuntimeError.py ] ------------------------------ markus@macosbw:~/Python/PyQt/Python-RuntimeError > CheckPython-RuntimeError.py Mon Nov 10 18:17:18 CET 2003 failed Mon Nov 10 18:17:26 CET 2003 Mon Nov 10 18:17:26 CET 2003 Markus ---------------------------------------------------------------------- M. Biermaier mbier AT office-m.at Wiesengasse 15 3011 Untertullnerbach Austria / Europe Web Site: http://www.office-m.at From lists at weir.cc Mon Nov 10 13:59:09 2003 From: lists at weir.cc (Tom Weir) Date: Mon Nov 10 13:59:15 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE on Panther...? In-Reply-To: <361D8BBE-139C-11D8-91DA-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <361D8BBE-139C-11D8-91DA-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: See http://www.maths.mq.edu.au/~steffen/tcltk/TclTkAqua/ or http://sourceforge.net/projects/tcltkaqua/ for aqua tcl/tk http://aquatcltk.sourceforge.net/ comes up 404 Tom On 10-Nov-03, at 8:37 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Nov 10, 2003, at 11:23 AM, Gary Robinson wrote: > >> Hi, I just downloaded the nov 7 release of Macpython 2.3 For Panther >> Addons... do I have to separately download tcl or anything in order >> to get >> IDLE running? When I try, it crashes on startup and the console has a >> "No >> module named PyShell" error. >> >> If IDLE is included in Macpython 2.3 For Panther Addons, it seems >> like it >> "should" work without requiring other software to be downloaded... > > IDLE definitely does require Tcl/Tk ( http://aquatcltk.sf.net/ ) > > However: > /Applications/MacPython-2.3/IDLE.app/Contents/Resources/idlelib/ > PyShell.py > > I wonder what the deal is w/ that. IDLE does work for me though > (similar config, but I have Aqua Tcl/Tk), not that I use it. From bob at redivi.com Mon Nov 10 14:03:52 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Mon Nov 10 14:03:33 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE on Panther...? In-Reply-To: References: <361D8BBE-139C-11D8-91DA-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: Yeah, my bad.. I always get that backwards, should've checked it. http://tcltkaqua.sf.net/ is a redirect to the first page you mentioned. -bob On Nov 10, 2003, at 1:59 PM, Tom Weir wrote: > See http://www.maths.mq.edu.au/~steffen/tcltk/TclTkAqua/ or > http://sourceforge.net/projects/tcltkaqua/ for aqua tcl/tk > > http://aquatcltk.sourceforge.net/ comes up 404 > > On 10-Nov-03, at 8:37 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> On Nov 10, 2003, at 11:23 AM, Gary Robinson wrote: >> >>> Hi, I just downloaded the nov 7 release of Macpython 2.3 For Panther >>> Addons... do I have to separately download tcl or anything in order >>> to get >>> IDLE running? When I try, it crashes on startup and the console has >>> a "No >>> module named PyShell" error. >>> >>> If IDLE is included in Macpython 2.3 For Panther Addons, it seems >>> like it >>> "should" work without requiring other software to be downloaded... >> >> IDLE definitely does require Tcl/Tk ( http://aquatcltk.sf.net/ ) >> >> However: >> /Applications/MacPython-2.3/IDLE.app/Contents/Resources/idlelib/ >> PyShell.py >> >> I wonder what the deal is w/ that. IDLE does work for me though >> (similar config, but I have Aqua Tcl/Tk), not that I use it. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031110/774a4db0/smime.bin From joanca at casasin.com Mon Nov 10 15:26:50 2003 From: joanca at casasin.com (Joancarles Casasin) Date: Mon Nov 10 15:26:58 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python Editor for Mac In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 10/11/2003 at 11:51, Kai Vermehr wrote: >I'm starting with Python on Mac and I'm searching for an editor. BBedit >seems to be the best choice at this moment ... but are there >alternatives? How about Xcode, SubEthaEdit or others? > >Any advice is welcome ... thanks! -- 'K:) How about the MacPython-IDE itself? There's also SubEthaEdit, a *very* cool editor where you can share with other users the same doc via Rendezvouz and script at the same time in the same document. I miss running scripts directly from there but maybe will be solved in the near future. Joancarles From k at eboy.com Mon Nov 10 16:10:14 2003 From: k at eboy.com (Kai Vermehr) Date: Mon Nov 10 16:10:36 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python Editor for Mac /kv In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47645DC0-13C2-11D8-B1F2-000A9569B09E@eboy.com> yes SubEthaEdit is very elegant -- though the name is terrible. Have not found out how to share documents over the internet -- but it seems to be possible ... I'm still trying to find a way how to execute scripts without to much hassle. BBedit offers to run them with one simple shortcut -- could not really figure out how everybody else is doing this ... opening the saved file from the terminal? Seems to be so much extra work ... On 10.11.2003, at 21:26, Joancarles Casasin wrote: > There's also SubEthaEdit, a *very* cool editor where you can share > with other users the same doc via Rendezvouz and script at the same > time in the same document. > I miss running scripts directly from there but maybe will be solved in > the near future. From lists at weir.cc Mon Nov 10 17:53:37 2003 From: lists at weir.cc (Tom Weir) Date: Mon Nov 10 17:53:44 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python Editor for Mac /kv In-Reply-To: <47645DC0-13C2-11D8-B1F2-000A9569B09E@eboy.com> References: <47645DC0-13C2-11D8-B1F2-000A9569B09E@eboy.com> Message-ID: That's the curse of software development these days: most of the cool names are taken ;) SubEthaEdit used to be known as Hydra, but then someone sic'd a lawyer on the author... On 10-Nov-03, at 1:10 PM, Kai Vermehr wrote: > yes SubEthaEdit is very elegant -- though the name is terrible. > Have not found out how to share documents over the internet -- but it > seems to be possible ... > > I'm still trying to find a way how to execute scripts without to much > hassle. BBedit offers to run them with one simple shortcut -- could > not really figure out how everybody else is doing this ... opening the > saved file from the terminal? Seems to be so much extra work ... > > On 10.11.2003, at 21:26, Joancarles Casasin wrote: > >> There's also SubEthaEdit, a *very* cool editor where you can share >> with other users the same doc via Rendezvouz and script at the same >> time in the same document. >> I miss running scripts directly from there but maybe will be solved >> in the near future. > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > From janssen at parc.com Mon Nov 10 18:39:58 2003 From: janssen at parc.com (Bill Janssen) Date: Mon Nov 10 18:40:13 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Second build of MacPython additions for Panther In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 08 Nov 2003 18:45:08 PST." Message-ID: <03Nov10.154000pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> Yes, I think that's it. I created a purely local account on the same machine, and downloaded it successfully. You might want to see why your .dmg doesn't mount when the user is using an NFS-mounted home directory. All other .dmg files seem to work OK. Bill > On Nov 8, 2003, at 6:56 PM, Jack Jansen wrote: > > > > > On 8-nov-03, at 0:00, Bill Janssen wrote: > > > >> I've just downloaded this (using OmniWeb 4.5), but when I try to mount > >> the image I get a pop-up with > >> > >> The following disk images failed to mount: > >> > >> MacPython-Panther-2.3-2.dmg | Error -199 > >> > >> What's up? What's the checksum for this dmg? > > > > Is anyone else seeing this? Anyone else using OmniWeb? > > I think Bill Janssen is the one that uses UFS or NFS or something.. > maybe it's one of Apple's bugs? I have also downloaded this dmg (with > safari) and have had no problems. > > -bob > From jason.clark at comcast.net Mon Nov 10 19:36:23 2003 From: jason.clark at comcast.net (Jason Clark) Date: Mon Nov 10 19:36:29 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Interactive Python Question Message-ID: <13712BF2-13DF-11D8-BADC-000393DDE552@comcast.net> Is there any way to get shell-style editing in Interactive Python? When using MacPython IDE's interactive window, the arrow keys move you around the window; when using Panther's cmdline python2.3 (which I prefer), the arrow keys generate ctrl characters. I'd really to have shell editing behavior: Up/Down arrow moves through history, left/right arrows edit the current line, and emacs bindings (like Ctrl-A & Ctrl-E) wouldn't be bad either. I read somewhere that curses support can be compiled into python, but I think they were talking about writing python scripts that use curses, not the interpreter. Any suggestions? Thanks, Jason Jason Clark http://jclark.org/weblog From bob at redivi.com Mon Nov 10 20:03:41 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Mon Nov 10 20:03:52 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Interactive Python Question In-Reply-To: <13712BF2-13DF-11D8-BADC-000393DDE552@comcast.net> References: <13712BF2-13DF-11D8-BADC-000393DDE552@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Nov 10, 2003, at 7:36 PM, Jason Clark wrote: > Is there any way to get shell-style editing in Interactive Python? > When using MacPython IDE's interactive window, the arrow keys move you > around the window; when using Panther's cmdline python2.3 (which I > prefer), the arrow keys generate ctrl characters. I'd really to have > shell editing behavior: Up/Down arrow moves through history, > left/right arrows edit the current line, and emacs bindings (like > Ctrl-A & Ctrl-E) wouldn't be bad either. I read somewhere that curses > support can be compiled into python, but I think they were talking > about writing python scripts that use curses, not the interpreter. > Any suggestions? Install the readline module using Package Manager. It won't do anything for you with the MacPython IDE, but it will "fix" the command line interpreter. See also: http://pythonmac.org/wiki/FAQ#head- dd12b4c4aebd339b7d7de442ed60a196db2d2667 -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031110/f5ff8034/smime-0001.bin From bob at redivi.com Mon Nov 10 21:39:24 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Mon Nov 10 21:39:33 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Additional Package Manager database for 10.3 now available In-Reply-To: <83BF88A7-11BE-11D8-92AB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <83BF88A7-11BE-11D8-92AB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <430BCD49-13F0-11D8-9773-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 8, 2003, at 2:38 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > It's up: > http://undefined.org/python/pimp/ > > I've deprecated the 10.2 extensions, sorry guys, but I don't plan on > updating it (however I will continue hosting the packages). The old > list had a lot more packages than the new one currently has, so I have > some catching up to do over the next week or two. > > Most notably, I've added PyDS and all the extensions it requires to > the list. I've also made some small patches to PyDS to make it play > nice with OS X. See here: > http://www.pycs.net/users/0000202/weblog/2003/11/07.html#P2 I've added some more packages to my OS X 10.3 repository that may be of interest: * pycrypto 1.9a6 * Pyndex 0.3.2a * pyOpenSSL 0.5.1 * pyPgSQL 2.4 * Quotient 0.7.0 * Reverend 0.2.4 * spambayes 1.0a7 * Twisted 1.1.0 I'm probably going to stop announcing packages here, if you want to stay up to date you can poll http://undefined.org/python/pimp/ or read http://bob.pycs.net/ :) If anyone has any package requests, go ahead and email me. I'm still not quite up to where the 10.2 repository is, so emails may help me prioritize. -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031110/96ed6d3b/smime.bin From drewmccormack at mac.com Tue Nov 11 03:01:45 2003 From: drewmccormack at mac.com (Drew McCormack) Date: Tue Nov 11 03:02:08 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python Editor for Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B60763E-141D-11D8-8380-00039363BC02@mac.com> Is anyone using Xcode? I use it for Cocoa dev, so I wouldn't mind also being able to use it for python, but it would need to be able to: 1) Run my python scripts 2) Hopefully use the python debugger in some way If its only possible to use it as an editor, I'll stick with vim. Drew On Nov 10, 2003, at 11:51 AM, Kai Vermehr wrote: > I'm starting with Python on Mac and I'm searching for an editor. > BBedit seems to be the best choice at this moment ... but are there > alternatives? How about Xcode, SubEthaEdit or others? > > Any advice is welcome ... thanks! -- 'K:) > > -- > Kai Vermehr | eBoy > http://www.eboy.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Drew McCormack Trade Strategist - Stock market strategy design platform for Mac OS X http://www.trade-strategist.com From etienne at cs.vu.nl Tue Nov 11 03:58:38 2003 From: etienne at cs.vu.nl (Etienne Posthumus) Date: Tue Nov 11 03:58:45 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python Editor for Mac In-Reply-To: <4B60763E-141D-11D8-8380-00039363BC02@mac.com> Message-ID: <3D97F7E8-1425-11D8-8DCB-000A9574DA40@cs.vu.nl> On dinsdag, nov 11, 2003, at 09:01 Europe/Amsterdam, Drew McCormack wrote: > Is anyone using Xcode? I use it for Cocoa dev, so I wouldn't mind also > being able to use it for python, but it would need to be able to: > 1) Run my python scripts I've been using SubEthaEdit for almost all of my Python coding nowadays. For quick-fixing on the command line I use cmdline VIM. But on the Mac, the Carbon VIM just doesn't 'feel' right, and the cmdline version doesn't play nice with the mouse and clipboard. As for ProjectBuilder/XCode it has always been too much of a good thing for me as far as editing goes. A lot of people on this thread have expressed the desire to run scripts 'from the editor', I am just curious, why? One keystroke as opposed to two/three in the Terminal? --------- Etienne Posthumus, IIDS Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam http://www.cs.vu.nl/~etienne/ From drewmccormack at mac.com Tue Nov 11 04:02:23 2003 From: drewmccormack at mac.com (Drew McCormack) Date: Tue Nov 11 04:02:35 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python Editor for Mac In-Reply-To: <3D97F7E8-1425-11D8-8DCB-000A9574DA40@cs.vu.nl> References: <3D97F7E8-1425-11D8-8DCB-000A9574DA40@cs.vu.nl> Message-ID: On Nov 11, 2003, at 9:58 AM, Etienne Posthumus wrote: > > On dinsdag, nov 11, 2003, at 09:01 Europe/Amsterdam, Drew McCormack > wrote: >> Is anyone using Xcode? I use it for Cocoa dev, so I wouldn't mind >> also being able to use it for python, but it would need to be able >> to: >> 1) Run my python scripts > > I've been using SubEthaEdit for almost all of my Python coding > nowadays. For quick-fixing on the command line I use cmdline VIM. But > on the Mac, the Carbon VIM just doesn't 'feel' right, and the cmdline > version doesn't play nice with the mouse and clipboard. As for > ProjectBuilder/XCode it has always been too much of a good thing for > me as far as editing goes. > > A lot of people on this thread have expressed the desire to run > scripts 'from the editor', I am just curious, why? One keystroke as > opposed to two/three in the Terminal? I guess you're right, it isn't that important. What I would really like is a graphical debugger. Command line debuggers are too much trouble. I was very excited about PyOxide, a Cocoa IDE for python, but when I try to debug it crashes on me. It's just not stable enough. Drew ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Drew McCormack Trade Strategist - Stock market strategy design platform for Mac OS X http://www.trade-strategist.com From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Tue Nov 11 06:22:47 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Tue Nov 11 06:22:53 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Second build of MacPython additions for Panther In-Reply-To: <03Nov10.154000pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> References: <03Nov10.154000pst."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> Message-ID: <60B25588-1439-11D8-BE75-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> On 11-nov-03, at 0:39, Bill Janssen wrote: > Yes, I think that's it. I created a purely local account on the same > machine, and downloaded it successfully. You might want to see why > your .dmg doesn't mount when the user is using an NFS-mounted home > directory. All other .dmg files seem to work OK. I've filed a bug report for myself, . It probably has something to do with the fact that we build the dmg files with our own tools, not the standard Apple tools. -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From gherman at darwin.in-berlin.de Tue Nov 11 06:42:20 2003 From: gherman at darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Tue Nov 11 06:42:00 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] RegexPlor 0.7 b Message-ID: <1BC3DCCA-143C-11D8-B261-00039345C610@darwin.in-berlin.de> Hi, I've finally moved a little bit ahead with RegexPlor and there is a beta you can look at and comment if you like: http://python.net/~gherman/RegexPlor.html http://python.net/~gherman/projects/RegexPlor-0.7b.tar.gz The changes are more superficial, now using a real TabView, which does make more sense, although I'm not entirely happy with it b/c when picking the (textured) window left or right of it you cannot move it unless you have a few pixels distance to the tab view... Same on Panther, but there it looks maybe nicer than before. Still, it seems like the somewhat annoying and very strange effects of moving the entire window across the screen while selecting por- tions of text inside has finally gone. Also, I have not much of a clue what kind of documents this sort of document-based app would/should be saving or loading if any, so I've disabled the respective menu entries... I know there should also be some cycling between matched groups, which is reserved for the next big thing to come... Comments welcome, Dinu -- Dinu C. Gherman - http://python.net/~gherman ...................................................................... "The best way to predict the future is to invent it." (Alan Kay) From joanca at casasin.com Tue Nov 11 09:31:41 2003 From: joanca at casasin.com (Joancarles Casasin) Date: Tue Nov 11 09:31:49 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python Editor for Mac In-Reply-To: <3D97F7E8-1425-11D8-8DCB-000A9574DA40@cs.vu.nl> Message-ID: > A lot of people on this thread have expressed the desire to run scripts > 'from the editor', I am just curious, why? One keystroke as opposed to > two/three in the Terminal? Newbies, low skill and non programmers not used to deal with the Terminal. Me, as example ;) Happy to learn another way, anyway. Joancarles From k at eboy.com Tue Nov 11 10:25:54 2003 From: k at eboy.com (Kai Vermehr) Date: Tue Nov 11 10:26:17 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python Editor for Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57060854-145B-11D8-BE63-000A9569B09E@eboy.com> guess that not only newbies prefer one keystroke over two ... if two or more of them make I would love to learn why. In fact my experience is that "newbies" do a lot more keystroking (and mousing) than most of the "pros".'K:) On 11.11.2003, at 15:31, Joancarles Casasin wrote: >> A lot of people on this thread have expressed the desire to run >> scripts >> 'from the editor', I am just curious, why? One keystroke as opposed to >> two/three in the Terminal? > > Newbies, low skill and non programmers not used to deal with the > Terminal. Me, as example ;) > Happy to learn another way, anyway. > > > Joancarles > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > From eppstein at ics.uci.edu Tue Nov 11 11:07:46 2003 From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein) Date: Tue Nov 11 11:07:53 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Python Editor for Mac References: <4B60763E-141D-11D8-8380-00039363BC02@mac.com> <3D97F7E8-1425-11D8-8DCB-000A9574DA40@cs.vu.nl> Message-ID: In article <3D97F7E8-1425-11D8-8DCB-000A9574DA40@cs.vu.nl>, Etienne Posthumus wrote: > A lot of people on this thread have expressed the desire to run scripts > 'from the editor', I am just curious, why? One keystroke as opposed to > two/three in the Terminal? In the version of BBEdit I have it's a mouse command and not a keystroke, which is annoying. But that way I can capture stdout to an editor window and gain a little versatility in looking it over or saving it for later compared to what I can do with a Terminal window. -- David Eppstein http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/ Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science From k at eboy.com Tue Nov 11 11:28:35 2003 From: k at eboy.com (Kai Vermehr) Date: Tue Nov 11 11:28:54 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Python Editor for Mac In-Reply-To: References: <4B60763E-141D-11D8-8380-00039363BC02@mac.com> <3D97F7E8-1425-11D8-8DCB-000A9574DA40@cs.vu.nl> Message-ID: <18DADAB2-1464-11D8-BE63-000A9569B09E@eboy.com> in the Menu "BBedit" go to "Set Menu Keys". There you can assign a key to "Run" (and anything else of course) 'K:) -- Kai Vermehr | eBoy http://www.eboy.com On 11.11.2003, at 17:07, David Eppstein wrote: >> A lot of people on this thread have expressed the desire to run >> scripts >> 'from the editor', I am just curious, why? One keystroke as opposed to >> two/three in the Terminal? > > In the version of BBEdit I have it's a mouse command and not a > keystroke, which is annoying. But that way I can capture stdout to an > editor window and gain a little versatility in looking it over or > saving > it for later compared to what I can do with a Terminal window. From chris at fonnesbeck.org Tue Nov 11 12:15:26 2003 From: chris at fonnesbeck.org (Christopher Fonnesbeck) Date: Tue Nov 11 12:15:33 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python Editor for Mac Message-ID: I also use SubEthaEdit for python (and FORTRAN) coding, and enjoy it very much. I was hoping to use Xcode, but it does a poor job of even simple things like remembering my python code is to be indented 4 spaces, while my FORTRAN code needs 6 spaces. Very poor indenting, and no python debugging, which makes its use as an IDE pointless. So far emacs is the only OSX editor that I've seen that integrates pdb for debugging. -- Christopher J. Fonnesbeck ( c h r i s @ f o n n e s b e c k . o r g ) Georgia Cooperative Fish & Wildlife Research Unit, University of Georgia From fonnesbeck at mac.com Tue Nov 11 12:17:06 2003 From: fonnesbeck at mac.com (Christopher Fonnesbeck) Date: Tue Nov 11 12:17:13 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] SciPy Message-ID: Has anyone had success building SciPy for OSX 10.3? That would be a wonderful binary to have around; its given me nothing but trouble. C. -- Christopher J. Fonnesbeck ( c h r i s @ f o n n e s b e c k . o r g ) Georgia Cooperative Fish & Wildlife Research Unit, University of Georgia From kaweh at knuddl.org Tue Nov 11 12:58:27 2003 From: kaweh at knuddl.org (Kaweh Kazemi) Date: Tue Nov 11 12:58:51 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Additional Package Manager database for 10.3 now available In-Reply-To: <430BCD49-13F0-11D8-9773-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <83BF88A7-11BE-11D8-92AB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <430BCD49-13F0-11D8-9773-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: Bob, During installing pygame using your repository I got a strange problem - PackageManager does not launch anymore. Well, during pygame installation PackageManager closed itself (without me closing it) without any message, so I thought that pygame installation failed. But pygame seem to installed fine (I can do a "import pygame"). But now PackageManager does not start up anymore, only thing I found was following message in Console.app: Fatal Python error: Can't import module 'numarray.libnumarray' It bounces a couple of times and then vanishes. Any hints were I should start searching for the problem? This is on 10.3 (clean install) with latest MacPython add-on package installed. Thanks, Kaweh On Nov 11, 2003, at 03:39, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Nov 8, 2003, at 2:38 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> It's up: >> http://undefined.org/python/pimp/ >> >> I've deprecated the 10.2 extensions, sorry guys, but I don't plan on >> updating it (however I will continue hosting the packages). The old >> list had a lot more packages than the new one currently has, so I >> have some catching up to do over the next week or two. >> >> Most notably, I've added PyDS and all the extensions it requires to >> the list. I've also made some small patches to PyDS to make it play >> nice with OS X. See here: >> http://www.pycs.net/users/0000202/weblog/2003/11/07.html#P2 > > I've added some more packages to my OS X 10.3 repository that may be > of interest: > > * pycrypto 1.9a6 > * Pyndex 0.3.2a > * pyOpenSSL 0.5.1 > * pyPgSQL 2.4 > * Quotient 0.7.0 > * Reverend 0.2.4 > * spambayes 1.0a7 > * Twisted 1.1.0 > > I'm probably going to stop announcing packages here, if you want to > stay up to date you can poll http://undefined.org/python/pimp/ or read > http://bob.pycs.net/ :) > > If anyone has any package requests, go ahead and email me. I'm still > not quite up to where the 10.2 repository is, so emails may help me > prioritize. > > -bob_______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig From eppstein at ics.uci.edu Tue Nov 11 12:59:42 2003 From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein) Date: Tue Nov 11 12:59:48 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Python Editor for Mac References: Message-ID: In article , Christopher Fonnesbeck wrote: > I also use SubEthaEdit for python (and FORTRAN) coding, and enjoy it > very much. I was hoping to use Xcode, but it does a poor job of even > simple things like remembering my python code is to be indented 4 > spaces, while my FORTRAN code needs 6 spaces. Very poor indenting, and > no python debugging, which makes its use as an IDE pointless. So far > emacs is the only OSX editor that I've seen that integrates pdb for > debugging. I have to admit, after trying SubEthaEdit for maybe 1 minute, that it looks pretty nice for Python. Knows out of the box that I want 4 spaces, doesn't put in tabs instead of spaces, and the delete key dedents 4 spaces instead of just getting rid of one of the spaces. Syntax coloring is a little subtle but I can live with that. The "Show Changes" feature looks very useful. -- David Eppstein http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/ Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science From bob at redivi.com Tue Nov 11 13:15:42 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue Nov 11 13:15:58 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Additional Package Manager database for 10.3 now available In-Reply-To: References: <83BF88A7-11BE-11D8-92AB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <430BCD49-13F0-11D8-9773-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <0FA6974D-1473-11D8-A73F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Kaweh, This is the first report of this kind I've heard.. very strange. Do you have a G3 or G4/G5? It's possible but unlikely that I compiled numarray in such a way that it won't work on a G3. All my machines (and all the machines I have access to) are G4 or G5 so I can't really know if it breaks on an altivec-free CPU :) Can you send me /Library/Logs/CrashReporter/python.crash.log ? Can you also send me the output of python -v -c "import numarray.libnumarray" ? Did you install any Python modules/packages/extensions on your own (not including the latest MacPython add-ons) prior to installing pygame from my repository? -bob On Nov 11, 2003, at 12:58 PM, Kaweh Kazemi wrote: > During installing pygame using your repository I got a strange problem > - PackageManager does not launch anymore. Well, during pygame > installation PackageManager closed itself (without me closing it) > without any message, so I thought that pygame installation failed. But > pygame seem to installed fine (I can do a "import pygame"). > > But now PackageManager does not start up anymore, only thing I found > was following message in Console.app: > > Fatal Python error: Can't import module 'numarray.libnumarray' > > It bounces a couple of times and then vanishes. Any hints were I > should start searching for the problem? > > This is on 10.3 (clean install) with latest MacPython add-on package > installed. > > On Nov 11, 2003, at 03:39, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> >> On Nov 8, 2003, at 2:38 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: >> >>> It's up: >>> http://undefined.org/python/pimp/ >>> >>> I've deprecated the 10.2 extensions, sorry guys, but I don't plan on >>> updating it (however I will continue hosting the packages). The old >>> list had a lot more packages than the new one currently has, so I >>> have some catching up to do over the next week or two. >>> >>> Most notably, I've added PyDS and all the extensions it requires to >>> the list. I've also made some small patches to PyDS to make it play >>> nice with OS X. See here: >>> http://www.pycs.net/users/0000202/weblog/2003/11/07.html#P2 >> >> I've added some more packages to my OS X 10.3 repository that may be >> of interest: >> >> * pycrypto 1.9a6 >> * Pyndex 0.3.2a >> * pyOpenSSL 0.5.1 >> * pyPgSQL 2.4 >> * Quotient 0.7.0 >> * Reverend 0.2.4 >> * spambayes 1.0a7 >> * Twisted 1.1.0 >> >> I'm probably going to stop announcing packages here, if you want to >> stay up to date you can poll http://undefined.org/python/pimp/ or >> read http://bob.pycs.net/ :) >> >> If anyone has any package requests, go ahead and email me. I'm still >> not quite up to where the 10.2 repository is, so emails may help me >> prioritize. >> >> -bob_______________________________________________ >> Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031111/16d5fb03/smime.bin From cjl at physics.otago.ac.nz Tue Nov 11 16:30:07 2003 From: cjl at physics.otago.ac.nz (Chris Lee) Date: Tue Nov 11 16:30:30 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] macPython problems in 10.3 Message-ID: <387B0680-148E-11D8-8B08-0003937807FC@physics.otago.ac.nz> Hi All, I have upgraded to 10.3 and I have installed MacPython add-ons and I have configured my environment.plist file but I still can't get the package manager to work. I have narrowed it down to the following. If my enviroment.plist file sets http_proxy http://username:password@cache.my.proxy.url:80 then it will display the available packages but not download them If I open terminal and change the proxy settings to http_proxy http://cache.my.proxy.url:80:username@password and then copy paste the curl command into the terminal it works just fine. However if I use those settings in the plist file then I can't get package manager to display any packages (though I presume that if it could it would download them successfully. Does anyone have any idea what is going on here and how to fix it? Also when I try to generate an OSA suite for pro Fit (a favourite application of mine) it fails with File "gensuitemodule.py", line 1022, in fillclasspropsandelems raise RuntimeError, "About to skip non-empty class" What does this mean? The developers of pro Fit are very responsive so if this is their bug they will fix it quite quickly but I need to know what the message means. Cheers Chris ########################## #Chris Lee # #Department of Physics # #Phone: ++64 3 4797750 # #Fax: ++64 3 4790964 # ########################## From b.prior at ieee.org Tue Nov 11 23:41:10 2003 From: b.prior at ieee.org (Bruce Prior) Date: Tue Nov 11 23:41:13 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Panther AddOns Second Build Message-ID: <3FB1B9E6.6070502@ieee.org> I just downloaded and installed the second build of the MacPython 2.3 for Panther Addons as reported on the MacPython website. IDLE and Python IDE don't seem to want to start. The Package Manager and the Launcher seem to work OK. I'm running OS X 2.3.1 on a Mac G5. I never had the first build loaded in Panther and never had MacPython loaded in Jaguar before upgrading to Panther. Regards, Bruce Prior Burnaby, BC Canada -- -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type multipart/related From bob at redivi.com Tue Nov 11 23:55:32 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue Nov 11 23:55:58 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Panther AddOns Second Build In-Reply-To: <3FB1B9E6.6070502@ieee.org> References: <3FB1B9E6.6070502@ieee.org> Message-ID: <7216061A-14CC-11D8-BF3A-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 11, 2003, at 11:41 PM, Bruce Prior wrote: > I just downloaded and installed the second build of the MacPython 2.3 > for Panther Addons as reported on the MacPython website.? IDLE and > Python IDE don't seem to want to start.? The Package Manager and the > Launcher seem to work OK.? I'm running OS X 2.3.1 on a Mac G5. I never > had the first build loaded in Panther and never had MacPython loaded > in Jaguar before upgrading to Panther. IDLE does not work unless _tkinter is installed (probably via Package Manager), which in turn requires Tcl/Tk Aqua ( http://tcltkaqua.sf.net/ ). However, the Python IDE should work. Could you show us the output from Console.app ( /Applications/Utilities/Console.app )? This should provide enough information to guess. Oh, and I'm not familiar with OS X 2.3.1 :) I'm guessing you meant 10.3.1? The "sw_vers" command line tool is the quick and easy way to figure out what OS you're running: [crack:~/src/pyobjc] bob% sw_vers ProductName: Mac OS X ProductVersion: 10.3.1 BuildVersion: 7C107 -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031111/c6e34743/smime.bin From artelse at mohr-i.nl Wed Nov 12 06:47:29 2003 From: artelse at mohr-i.nl (Arthur Elsenaar) Date: Wed Nov 12 06:47:33 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan in limbo Message-ID: Hi, tried installing pyOpenGL via bob's repository for 10.3. After downloading and some extra rainbow colors, PM quits without saying anything. Now PM on launch bounces a few times and then bails out.. leaving a message in the Console: Fatal Python error: Can't import module 'numarray.libnumarray' Anyone have an idea to fix this? Arthur From kaweh at knuddl.org Wed Nov 12 06:55:12 2003 From: kaweh at knuddl.org (Kaweh Kazemi) Date: Wed Nov 12 06:55:22 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackMan in limbo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12A04153-1507-11D8-A246-000A9593104E@knuddl.org> I had the same problem. Bob had a fix for me, see his instructions: > Figured it out.. OpenGL apparently depends on both numarray and Numeric, you > don't have numarray installed b/c my database didn't say that it was a > dependency. Jack's package list tries to import OpenGL during the import test. > Doing this from the command line should install numarray and fix it: > curl http://undefined.org/python/pimp/numarray-0.7.darwin-7.0.0- Power_Macintosh.tar.gz | tar zx -C / On Nov 12, 2003, at 12:47, Arthur Elsenaar wrote: > > Hi, > > tried installing pyOpenGL via bob's repository for 10.3. > > After downloading and some extra rainbow colors, PM quits without > saying anything. > Now PM on launch bounces a few times and then bails out.. leaving a > message in the Console: > > Fatal Python error: Can't import module 'numarray.libnumarray' > > Anyone have an idea to fix this? > > Arthur > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > From john.weeks at insead.edu Wed Nov 12 07:17:52 2003 From: john.weeks at insead.edu (John Weeks) Date: Wed Nov 12 07:18:01 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help with aeve Message-ID: I am trying to use aeve for the first time and I'm impressed with how well it works but I am not sure how to do a couple of thing. I hope maybe someone can help. What I am trying to do is to automate Safari so that I can scrape search results from LexisNexis. LexisNexis has a particularly gnarly search form (because of authentication issues, I think, and because of their heavy use of JavaScript) and so I haven't found a way to direct the searches directly from Python using urllib or ClientForm, etc. I have been able to write an AppleScript to use Safari to perform the search. The problem, though, is that I need the power of something like Python to then analyze the results and determine the next search to perform. So, I tried osascript'ing my AppleScript from Python. This could probably work except that it is a serious limitation not to be able to pass arguments to AppleScripts. I guess I would have to have Python create a file, dump in some arguments, and then have the AppleScript open that file and read the arguments. I tried that, actually, but for some reason AppleScript did not want to read the files created by Python. It would read only the first two characters (and invert them, very strange behavior). The same script would read just fine files that I hand-created with BBEdit. Anyway, I started to think that aeve was a better way to go. But I can't figure out how to do a couple of very simple things with Safari. I can use aeve to do things like check if windows are visible and to see if documents exist and so on (so aeve is working and Safari is there and listening). But how do I do the following: 1. make new document at the beginning of documents 2. set the URL of the front document to "http://web.lexis-nexis.com/" With 1. I have tried all kinds of things including (copying from the iCal example on the aeve wiki): import aeve saf = aeve.talkto('com.apple.safari') from aeve.Applications import Safari newdoc = saf.make(new=Safari.document) This gives me the following: Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in ? File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site- packages/aeve/aetypes/aecomplex.py", line 467, in bound_event_method return self(inst, *args, **kwargs) File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site- packages/aeve/aetypes/aecomplex.py", line 489, in __call__ raise aetools.Error, aetools.decodeerror(_reply, _arguments, _attributes) aeve.aetypes.aetools.Error: (6, u'NSArgumentsWrongScriptError', None With 2. I am stumped because it seems that the URL property of the document class is read/only. Thanks for listening. Cheers, John From bob at redivi.com Wed Nov 12 09:52:18 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Wed Nov 12 09:52:37 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help with aeve In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 12, 2003, at 7:17 AM, John Weeks wrote: > 1. make new document at the beginning of documents > > 2. set the URL of the front document to "http://web.lexis-nexis.com/" > > With 1. I have tried all kinds of things including (copying from the > iCal example on the aeve wiki): > > import aeve > > saf = aeve.talkto('com.apple.safari') > > from aeve.Applications import Safari > newdoc = saf.make(new=Safari.document) I am using 10.3 now, but this works for me: import aeve saf = aeve.talkto('com.apple.safari') from aeve.Applications import Safari newdoc = saf.make(new=Safari.document) newdoc.URL = "http://web.lexis-nexis.com/" Can someone else try this? Maybe my local copy of aeve has a bugfix or something? -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031112/5a172019/smime.bin From s.jol at jol-tech.net Wed Nov 12 12:56:53 2003 From: s.jol at jol-tech.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane_Jolicoeur-Fidelia?=) Date: Wed Nov 12 12:57:05 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] NSTableViews bad data reloads In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9951BF3E-1539-11D8-8326-0003939F4FDA@jol-tech.net> Hi, I have been more succesful in my pyobjc trial as some might remember. Anyways I did encounter a bug/problem with my code: I have an app that has two windows and four NSTableViews, each with a different tag number and linked to arrays containing dictionnaries. 3 of them seem to work perfectly except for one that is dynamically updated by the user or the program itself. Now that table view calls the apropriate update function the traces I put ,show me that the inserted values are correct, but the displayed information is not. It changes all entries made by the user to the one he/she last entered. but not the computer's entries who stay the correct. What should be done? regards Stephane NB: how do i dynamically resize cells to wrap around the text? From rswerdlow at transpose.com Wed Nov 12 14:16:07 2003 From: rswerdlow at transpose.com (Bob Swerdlow) Date: Wed Nov 12 14:16:31 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] buildapp.py --standalone with -O Message-ID: <01d601c3a951$6fc62e90$046fa8c0@RSWERDLOW800> I've been able to build my application standalone with the optimizer flag (-O) on, but only with a nasty hack. I'm hoping you can point me to a better solution. Previously, I built the application with this command: python buildapp.py -v --standalone --package=encodings --package=_strpTime --packag e=urllib2 build and it worked fine. However, when I changed this to: python -O buildapp.py -v --standalone --package=encodings --package=_strpTime --packag e=urllib2 build I got these errors: 'import site' failed; use -v for traceback Traceback(most recent call last): file "./build/MyApp.app/Contents/Resources/myapp.py", line 6, in ? import copy ImportError: No module named copy The "import copy" problem is simply cascaded off the "import site" problem. A site.pyo file was generated in the /build/MyApp.app/Contents/Resources/ folder, but it is obviously not being used properly. To get it to work, I first built the application without the -O flag, saved the site.pyc file, then built it again with the -O flag and restored the site.pyc file. With this hack, the application works fine. Changing the CFBundleExecutable string in the infoPList to "python -O" did not help - I don't think this is used for standalone applications. So, here are my questions: 1. Is a standalone application that is build optimized launched with the "-O" optimization flag on? 2. If not, is there a way to get it to launch with that flag on? 3. If so, would the site.pyo file be properly read or would we still need the site.pyc file? Bottom line: is there some work-around for this hack of building twice and saving the site.pyc file? Thanks for your help. Bob Swerdlow COO Transpose rswerdlow@transpose.com 207-781-8284 http://www.transpose.com ---------------------------------- Fight Spam! Add this link to your signature (as I did): http://wecanstopspam.org Click through to find out more. ---------------------------------- From just at letterror.com Wed Nov 12 15:23:41 2003 From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum) Date: Wed Nov 12 15:23:05 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] buildapp.py --standalone with -O In-Reply-To: <01d601c3a951$6fc62e90$046fa8c0@RSWERDLOW800> Message-ID: Bob Swerdlow wrote: > So, here are my questions: > 1. Is a standalone application that is build optimized launched with > the "-O" optimization flag on? > 2. If not, is there a way to get it to launch with that flag on? > 3. If so, would the site.pyo file be properly read or would we still > need the site.pyc file? > > Bottom line: is there some work-around for this hack of building > twice and saving the site.pyc file? I think you need to hack the bootstrap script by adding sys.argv.insert(1, "-O") after this line: sys.argv.insert(1, mainprogram) (Feel free to submit a bundlebuilder bug report for this.) Are you absolutely sure that -O buys you anything worth the trouble? Just From krjackson at lbl.gov Wed Nov 12 16:05:52 2003 From: krjackson at lbl.gov (Keith Jackson) Date: Wed Nov 12 16:06:12 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] TECManager build failure Message-ID: Hi, I can't get TECManager to build on my 10.2.8 box. I've tried with both gcc 3.1 and 3.3. I did a quick google search and couldn't find anyone else who had this problem. Maybe I'm doing something dumb? When I try to build TECManager it fails to build _TECManager.c due to a missing include; include_CoreServices.h. This looks pretty ify to me already. Did pyrex do something strange here? I would assume this should be CoreServices.h, although that doesn't fix it either. gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-long-double -no-cpp-precomp -mno-fused-madd -fno-common -dynamic -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/include/python2.3 -c src/_TECManager.c -o build/temp.darwin-6.8-Power_Macintosh-2.3/src/_TECManager.o src/_TECManager.c:6:34: include_CoreServices.h: No such file or directory Any thoughts on what's going wrong here would be appreciated. thx, --keith From bob at redivi.com Wed Nov 12 17:14:40 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Wed Nov 12 17:16:13 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] TECManager build failure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9C401A4E-155D-11D8-A799-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 12, 2003, at 4:05 PM, Keith Jackson wrote: > Hi, > I can't get TECManager to build on my 10.2.8 box. I've tried with both > gcc 3.1 and 3.3. I did a quick google search and couldn't find anyone > else who had this problem. Maybe I'm doing something dumb? > > When I try to build TECManager it fails to build _TECManager.c due to > a missing include; include_CoreServices.h. This looks pretty ify to me > already. Did pyrex do something strange here? I would assume this > should be CoreServices.h, although that doesn't fix it either. > > gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-long-double -no-cpp-precomp > -mno-fused-madd -fno-common -dynamic -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall > -Wstrict-prototypes > -I/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/include/python2.3 > -c src/_TECManager.c -o > build/temp.darwin-6.8-Power_Macintosh-2.3/src/_TECManager.o > src/_TECManager.c:6:34: include_CoreServices.h: No such file or > directory Just make a file called include_CoreServices.h that has the text #include -- this is a workaround for the fact that Pyrex can't use a system header file directly. I don't know why it didn't make it into the source distribution. I'll make a new release soon. You can also install these from the Package Manager repository: http://undefined.org/python/pimp/darwin-6.8-Power_Macintosh.html (for 10.2.x only) -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031112/a7419604/smime.bin From krjackson at lbl.gov Wed Nov 12 18:14:16 2003 From: krjackson at lbl.gov (Keith Jackson) Date: Wed Nov 12 18:14:01 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help with aeve In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just tried it, and I get the same error as John. --keith On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 06:52 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > I am using 10.3 now, but this works for me: > > import aeve > saf = aeve.talkto('com.apple.safari') > from aeve.Applications import Safari > newdoc = saf.make(new=Safari.document) > newdoc.URL = "http://web.lexis-nexis.com/" > > Can someone else try this? Maybe my local copy of aeve has a bugfix > or something? From bob at redivi.com Wed Nov 12 18:23:18 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Wed Nov 12 18:23:30 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help with aeve In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <333AD380-1567-11D8-A799-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Can someone else try this on 10.3? I'm still not sure whether it's my local svn trunk that's got a bugfix or if it's the OS. -bob On Nov 12, 2003, at 6:14 PM, Keith Jackson wrote: > Just tried it, and I get the same error as John. > > On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 06:52 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> I am using 10.3 now, but this works for me: >> >> import aeve >> saf = aeve.talkto('com.apple.safari') >> from aeve.Applications import Safari >> newdoc = saf.make(new=Safari.document) >> newdoc.URL = "http://web.lexis-nexis.com/" >> >> Can someone else try this? Maybe my local copy of aeve has a bugfix >> or something? > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031112/f5cea027/smime.bin From rsf at sprucehill.com Thu Nov 13 12:16:09 2003 From: rsf at sprucehill.com (Russell Finn) Date: Thu Nov 13 12:16:23 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help with aeve In-Reply-To: <333AD380-1567-11D8-A799-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <333AD380-1567-11D8-A799-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <12F8737A-15FD-11D8-B665-000393C96926@sprucehill.com> On Nov 12, 2003, at 6:23 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > Can someone else try this on 10.3? I'm still not sure whether it's my > local svn trunk that's got a bugfix or if it's the OS. I'm not even getting that far: [wlclient122:~] rsf% python Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> import aeve >>> saf = aeve.talkto('com.apple.safari') Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in ? File "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ python2.3/site-packages/aeve/util.py", line 3, in talkto mod = compiler.generate(identifier) File "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ python2.3/site-packages/aeve/compiler.py", line 61, in generate raise ValueError, "Can not find aete for file %r" % (identifier,) ValueError: Can not find aete for file 'com.apple.safari' >>> Mac OS X 10.3.1 with standard Apple Python 2.3. Installed aeve via setup.py; had to install TECManager and LaunchServices (via PackageManager) to get that to work. Am I doing something wrong? -- Russell Finn rsf@sprucehill.com From bob at redivi.com Thu Nov 13 12:20:21 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Thu Nov 13 12:21:07 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help with aeve In-Reply-To: <12F8737A-15FD-11D8-B665-000393C96926@sprucehill.com> References: <333AD380-1567-11D8-A799-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <12F8737A-15FD-11D8-B665-000393C96926@sprucehill.com> Message-ID: On Nov 13, 2003, at 12:16 PM, Russell Finn wrote: > On Nov 12, 2003, at 6:23 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: >> Can someone else try this on 10.3? I'm still not sure whether it's >> my local svn trunk that's got a bugfix or if it's the OS. > > I'm not even getting that far: > > [wlclient122:~] rsf% python > Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) > [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. > >>> import aeve > >>> saf = aeve.talkto('com.apple.safari') > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in ? > File > "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ > python2.3/site-packages/aeve/util.py", line 3, in talkto > mod = compiler.generate(identifier) > File > "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ > python2.3/site-packages/aeve/compiler.py", line 61, in generate > raise ValueError, "Can not find aete for file %r" % (identifier,) > ValueError: Can not find aete for file 'com.apple.safari' > >>> > > Mac OS X 10.3.1 with standard Apple Python 2.3. Installed aeve via > setup.py; had to install TECManager and LaunchServices (via > PackageManager) to get that to work. > > Am I doing something wrong? pythonw, not python -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031113/a5a27ada/smime.bin From rsf at sprucehill.com Thu Nov 13 13:13:01 2003 From: rsf at sprucehill.com (Russell Finn) Date: Thu Nov 13 13:13:14 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help with aeve In-Reply-To: References: <333AD380-1567-11D8-A799-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <12F8737A-15FD-11D8-B665-000393C96926@sprucehill.com> Message-ID: <04C936AE-1605-11D8-B665-000393C96926@sprucehill.com> On Nov 13, 2003, at 12:20 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: >> Am I doing something wrong? > > pythonw, not python Whoopsie... Sorry. Then the script you previously posted works fine for me, using pythonw, on Mac OS X 10.3. -- Russ From brownr at ucalgary.ca Thu Nov 13 17:36:14 2003 From: brownr at ucalgary.ca (Robb Brown) Date: Thu Nov 13 17:36:24 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Panther, MacPython (from source) Message-ID: I compiled a copy of MacPython 2.3.2 from source for Jaguar (because 2.3 seems to have some bugs that prevent our extension modules from working that are resolved with 2.3.2). Now I'd like to get a MacPython system for Jaguar running. 2.3.2 compiles and installs fine on Jaguar but with no Package Manager or IDE. If I install these using the MacPython Panther Addons installer, they use Apple's Python 2.3. Further, the modules they install do not seem to be compatible with MacPython 2.3.2 (if I copy the module from /Library/Python/2.3 to the site-packages directory of my 2.3.2 Framework, then import them, Python reports: Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?) Abort So, do all these modules really have to be rebuilt for 2.3.2 for some strange reason on Panther? They did not have to be rebuilt on Jaguar. _____________________________ Robb Brown Seaman Family MR Center Calgary, AB From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Thu Nov 13 17:36:36 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Thu Nov 13 17:36:44 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Wanted: an editor for the FAQ Message-ID: Folks, we have the beginning of an FAQ on the pythonmac.org Wiki at . However, a user-edited FAQ will quickly become very messy, unless someone takes on the role of editor. I think the main function of the editor would be looking at the organisation, and fixing it when it becomes unwieldy, removing questions that are no longer relevant, etc. So: this is a call-for-editor. Interested parties can reply to the list, CV not required:-) -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Thu Nov 13 17:45:12 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Thu Nov 13 17:45:30 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Panther, MacPython (from source) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0AC3A9B6-162B-11D8-ACE9-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> On 13-nov-03, at 23:36, Robb Brown wrote: > I compiled a copy of MacPython 2.3.2 from source for Jaguar (because > 2.3 seems to have some bugs that prevent our extension modules from > working that are resolved with 2.3.2). Now I'd like to get a > MacPython system for Jaguar running. 2.3.2 compiles and installs fine > on Jaguar but with no Package Manager or IDE. If I install these > using the MacPython Panther Addons installer, they use Apple's Python > 2.3. If you build 2.3.2 as a framework build (./configure --enable-framework) then you get everything. You must also use "make frameworkinstall" in stead of "make install" to install it. You're better off building from CVS (the release23-maint branch), because it has some fixes to the IDE and Package Manager that were too late for 2.3.2. The only problem is that Package Manager will by default use the database that is meant for the Apple-installation, you have to manually select the database for Jaguar. > Further, the modules they install do not seem to be compatible with > MacPython 2.3.2 (if I copy the module from /Library/Python/2.3 to the > site-packages directory of my 2.3.2 Framework, then import them, > Python reports: > > Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?) > Abort That's Python's way of saying *don't do that!*:-) The safe way is to always ensure you use modules only in the same Python you built them with. -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From jordan at krushen.com Thu Nov 13 18:18:16 2003 From: jordan at krushen.com (Jordan Krushen) Date: Thu Nov 13 18:43:43 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Wanted: an editor for the FAQ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 13-Nov-03, at 2:36 PM, Jack Jansen wrote: > we have the beginning of an FAQ on the pythonmac.org Wiki at > . However, a user-edited FAQ will > quickly become very messy, unless someone takes on the role of editor. > > I think the main function of the editor would be looking at the > organisation, and fixing it when it becomes unwieldy, removing > questions that are no longer relevant, etc. Is the plan to keep it as a Wiki if it's not to be user-edited? Or should there be a static site alongside a user-editable wiki for additions, which the editor would merge into the main page? > So: this is a call-for-editor. Interested parties can reply to the > list, CV not required:-) I haven't got much experience with Wikis aside from basic editing, but I'm sure it's not that hard :) I'm still relatively new to PyObjc, but I'm using MacPython currently, after having recently 'switched'. If the details seem ok, I should have time to work on this. J. From oussoren at cistron.nl Fri Nov 14 02:16:17 2003 From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Fri Nov 14 02:16:28 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Panther, MacPython (from source) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <701835F8-1672-11D8-A0F2-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl> On 13 nov 2003, at 23:36, Robb Brown wrote: > I compiled a copy of MacPython 2.3.2 from source for Jaguar (because > 2.3 seems to have some bugs that prevent our extension modules from > working that are resolved with 2.3.2). Now I'd like to get a > MacPython system for Jaguar running. 2.3.2 compiles and installs fine > on Jaguar but with no Package Manager or IDE. You need to install WASTE for these, see 'src/Mac/OSX/README' in the python distribution. > If I install these using the MacPython Panther Addons installer, they > use Apple's Python 2.3. What exactly are you trying to do? Apple's Python is 2.2 in Jaguar, not 2.3 and the MacPython Panther addons are for Panther not for Jaguar. > Further, the modules they install do not seem to be compatible with > MacPython 2.3.2 (if I copy the module from /Library/Python/2.3 to the > site-packages directory of my 2.3.2 Framework, then import them, > Python reports: > > Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?) > Abort If you're running Panther and installed your own framework-python this is a know problem: the interpreter is linked with one of the two Python.frameworks on your system, and some extension modules pick up the other one. That other one is not initialized... There's more about this in the mailinglist archive. Ronald From bob at redivi.com Fri Nov 14 02:25:11 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Fri Nov 14 02:25:17 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Panther, MacPython (from source) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 13, 2003, at 5:36 PM, Robb Brown wrote: > I compiled a copy of MacPython 2.3.2 from source for Jaguar (because > 2.3 seems to have some bugs that prevent our extension modules from > working that are resolved with 2.3.2). Now I'd like to get a > MacPython system for Jaguar running. 2.3.2 compiles and installs fine > on Jaguar but with no Package Manager or IDE. If I install these > using the MacPython Panther Addons installer, they use Apple's Python > 2.3. Further, the modules they install do not seem to be compatible > with MacPython 2.3.2 (if I copy the module from /Library/Python/2.3 to > the site-packages directory of my 2.3.2 Framework, then import them, > Python reports: Out of curiosity, could you point us to the bugs fixed between 2.3.0 and 2.3.2 that cause your extension modules to work incorrectly? There are many people currently using 2.3.0 that would benefit from knowing, and perhaps one of us already know or could discover a workaround that would allow your extension modules to be compatible with 2.3.0. -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031114/c7bd011e/smime-0001.bin From kranki2 at earthlink.net Fri Nov 14 09:02:10 2003 From: kranki2 at earthlink.net (Bob W) Date: Fri Nov 14 09:02:18 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help with TKinter under 10.3 Message-ID: <23DBD09A-16AB-11D8-8FA5-000A957652F6@earthlink.net> Sorry if this has been answered before. I did look thru the archive, but did not find anything that seems to fit my request. Also, I am new to Python and TclTk. I run 10.3.1 on a Powerbook G4 and keep the OS up2date. I am trying to get Tcl/Tk to work with the Apple-Installed version of python. I downloaded MacPython and installed it. Then I installed _tkinter using PackageManager.Then I downloaded TclTkAqua and installed it. I then reinstalled (ie upgraded MacPython then _tkinter), because sometimes the order of these things seems to be important. "import _tkinter" now works, but "import TKinter" does not (ie can't find the module). Could someone please point out what I am doing wrong? Thanks you for your help. From bob at redivi.com Fri Nov 14 09:26:31 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Fri Nov 14 09:26:37 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help with TKinter under 10.3 In-Reply-To: <23DBD09A-16AB-11D8-8FA5-000A957652F6@earthlink.net> References: <23DBD09A-16AB-11D8-8FA5-000A957652F6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8ADF0D48-16AE-11D8-A14C-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 9:02 AM, Bob W wrote: > Sorry if this has been answered before. I did look thru the archive, > but did not find anything that seems to fit my request. Also, I am > new to Python and TclTk. > > I run 10.3.1 on a Powerbook G4 and keep the OS up2date. I am trying > to get Tcl/Tk to work with the Apple-Installed version of python. I > downloaded MacPython and installed it. Then I installed _tkinter > using PackageManager.Then I downloaded TclTkAqua and installed it. I > then reinstalled (ie upgraded MacPython then _tkinter), because > sometimes the order of these things seems to be important. "import > _tkinter" now works, but "import TKinter" does not (ie can't find the > module). > > Could someone please point out what I am doing wrong? Thanks you for > your help. Check your shift key? It's called Tkinter, not TKinter. Capitalization matters in Python, even though it doesn't in the filesystem. -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031114/4abb38c0/smime.bin From byronea at u.washington.edu Fri Nov 14 12:21:32 2003 From: byronea at u.washington.edu (Byron Amerson) Date: Fri Nov 14 12:21:38 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] SciPy compile issue... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, I know this is not directly MacPython related but the SciPy mail-list daemon is not working...and this is python related :] If anyone has any insight it would be much appreciated - the following error comes up when attempting to install SciPy on my imac running 10.3, with the environment variable: setenv ATLAS /sw/lib (a few lines of output from above the error message included) getctype: No C-type found in "{'attrspec': ['external']}", assuming void. getctype: No C-type found in "{'attrspec': ['external']}", assuming void. getctype: No C-type found in "{'attrspec': ['external']}", assuming void. omega = init_convolution_kernel(n,kernel_func,[d,zero_nyquist,kernel_func_extra_args]) Constructing wrapper function "destroy_convolve_cache"... destroy_convolve_cache() Constructing wrapper function "convolve"... y = convolve(x,omega,[swap_real_imag,overwrite_x]) Constructing wrapper function "convolve_z"... y = convolve_z(x,omega_real,omega_imag,[overwrite_x]) Wrote C/API module "convolve" to file "build/temp.darwin-7.0.0-Power_Macintosh-2.3/convolvemodule.c" running build_flib f771: error: unrecognized command line option "-arch" f771: fatal error: can't open ppc: No such file or directory compilation terminated. error: failure during compile (exit status = 256) Thanks in advance Byron Amerson MS student University of Washington Department of Earth and Space Sciences From bob at redivi.com Fri Nov 14 12:51:48 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Fri Nov 14 12:51:58 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] SciPy compile issue... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3826AD56-16CB-11D8-9397-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 12:21 PM, Byron Amerson wrote: > OK, I know this is not directly MacPython related but the SciPy > mail-list > daemon is not working...and this is python related :] > > If anyone has any insight it would be much appreciated - > > the following error comes up when attempting to install SciPy on my > imac > running 10.3, with the environment variable: setenv ATLAS /sw/lib (a > few > lines of output from above the error message included) > > getctype: No C-type found in "{'attrspec': ['external']}", assuming > void. > getctype: No C-type found in "{'attrspec': ['external']}", assuming > void. > getctype: No C-type found in "{'attrspec': ['external']}", assuming > void. > omega = > init_convolution_kernel(n,kernel_func,[d,zero_nyquist,kernel_func_extra > _args]) > Constructing wrapper function > "destroy_convolve_cache"... > destroy_convolve_cache() > Constructing wrapper function "convolve"... > y = convolve(x,omega,[swap_real_imag,overwrite_x]) > Constructing wrapper function "convolve_z"... > y = convolve_z(x,omega_real,omega_imag,[overwrite_x]) > Wrote C/API module "convolve" to file > "build/temp.darwin-7.0.0-Power_Macintosh-2.3/convolvemodule.c" > running build_flib > f771: error: unrecognized command line option "-arch" > f771: fatal error: can't open ppc: No such file or directory > compilation terminated. > error: failure during compile (exit status = 256) from __disclaimer__ import i_dont_know_fortran_very_well Which fortran compiler is that? It looks like it's passing g77 options to a non-g77 compiler? I've been planning on getting a Panther build of scipy out sometime soon, but I too have had some fortran issues in naive attempts, I haven't put any serious time into it. I'd like to this weekend, but I've got other commitments so I doubt I'll have a lot of MacPython time to spare. -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031114/d45a0319/smime.bin From kranki2 at earthlink.net Fri Nov 14 15:30:08 2003 From: kranki2 at earthlink.net (Bob W) Date: Fri Nov 14 15:30:25 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help with TKinter under 10.3 Message-ID: <56F09724-16E1-11D8-8FA5-000A957652F6@earthlink.net> Thanks, that helped. Sometimes, I just don't see those things! :) So, now I do: import _tkinter import Tkinter Tkinter._test() I get the window up with a couple of msgs and two buttons. However, it stays in the background and issues "SetFrontProcess failed,-606" back in the python Terminal session. BTW, I got the description of this out of the Python FAQ. That is why I am using it. Thanks again for any help. Begin forwarded message: > From: Bob Ippolito > Date: November 14, 2003 9:26:31 AM EST > To: Bob W > Cc: pythonmac-sig@python.org > Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help with TKinter under 10.3 > > > On Nov 14, 2003, at 9:02 AM, Bob W wrote: > >> Sorry if this has been answered before. I did look thru the archive, >> but did not find anything that seems to fit my request. Also, I am >> new to Python and TclTk. >> >> I run 10.3.1 on a Powerbook G4 and keep the OS up2date. I am trying >> to get Tcl/Tk to work with the Apple-Installed version of python. I >> downloaded MacPython and installed it. Then I installed _tkinter >> using PackageManager.Then I downloaded TclTkAqua and installed it. I >> then reinstalled (ie upgraded MacPython then _tkinter), because >> sometimes the order of these things seems to be important. "import >> _tkinter" now works, but "import TKinter" does not (ie can't find the >> module). >> >> Could someone please point out what I am doing wrong? Thanks you for >> your help. > > Check your shift key? It's called Tkinter, not TKinter. > Capitalization matters in Python, even though it doesn't in the > filesystem. > > -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1906 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031114/6b576131/attachment.bin From bob at redivi.com Fri Nov 14 16:04:06 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Fri Nov 14 16:04:39 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help with TKinter under 10.3 In-Reply-To: <56F09724-16E1-11D8-8FA5-000A957652F6@earthlink.net> References: <56F09724-16E1-11D8-8FA5-000A957652F6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <15BF8AD0-16E6-11D8-8950-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> You need to run with the script or start the interpreter with "pythonw" not "python". SetFrontProcess -606 is a sign that it needs Window Manager access. See the "What is pythonw? When do I need to use it?" FAQ entry at http://pythonmac.org/wiki/FAQ -bob On Nov 14, 2003, at 3:30 PM, Bob W wrote: > Thanks, that helped. Sometimes, I just don't see those things! :) > So, now I do: > > import _tkinter > import Tkinter > Tkinter._test() > > I get the window up with a couple of msgs and two buttons. However, > it stays in the background and issues "SetFrontProcess failed,-606" > back in the python Terminal session. BTW, I got the description of > this out of the Python FAQ. That is why I am using it. > > Thanks again for any help. > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Bob Ippolito >> Date: November 14, 2003 9:26:31 AM EST >> To: Bob W >> Cc: pythonmac-sig@python.org >> Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help with TKinter under 10.3 >> >> >> On Nov 14, 2003, at 9:02 AM, Bob W wrote: >> >>> Sorry if this has been answered before. I did look thru the >>> archive, but did not find anything that seems to fit my request. >>> Also, I am new to Python and TclTk. >>> >>> I run 10.3.1 on a Powerbook G4 and keep the OS up2date. I am trying >>> to get Tcl/Tk to work with the Apple-Installed version of python. I >>> downloaded MacPython and installed it. Then I installed _tkinter >>> using PackageManager.Then I downloaded TclTkAqua and installed it. >>> I then reinstalled (ie upgraded MacPython then _tkinter), because >>> sometimes the order of these things seems to be important. "import >>> _tkinter" now works, but "import TKinter" does not (ie can't find >>> the module). >>> >>> Could someone please point out what I am doing wrong? Thanks you >>> for your help. >> >> Check your shift key? It's called Tkinter, not TKinter. >> Capitalization matters in Python, even though it doesn't in the >> filesystem. >> >> -bob > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031114/98b01219/smime.bin From kranki2 at earthlink.net Fri Nov 14 17:47:22 2003 From: kranki2 at earthlink.net (Bob W) Date: Fri Nov 14 17:47:33 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help with TKinter under 10.3 In-Reply-To: <15BF8AD0-16E6-11D8-8950-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <56F09724-16E1-11D8-8FA5-000A957652F6@earthlink.net> <15BF8AD0-16E6-11D8-8950-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <827D8AC2-16F4-11D8-A523-000A957652F6@earthlink.net> Thanks again for you patience and understanding. That worked fine and now I am operational. Regards, Bob On Nov 14, 2003, at 4:04 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > You need to run with the script or start the interpreter with > "pythonw" not "python". SetFrontProcess -606 is a sign that it needs > Window Manager access. > > See the "What is pythonw? When do I need to use it?" FAQ entry at > http://pythonmac.org/wiki/FAQ > > -bob > > On Nov 14, 2003, at 3:30 PM, Bob W wrote: > >> Thanks, that helped. Sometimes, I just don't see those things! :) >> So, now I do: >> >> import _tkinter >> import Tkinter >> Tkinter._test() >> >> I get the window up with a couple of msgs and two buttons. However, >> it stays in the background and issues "SetFrontProcess failed,-606" >> back in the python Terminal session. BTW, I got the description of >> this out of the Python FAQ. That is why I am using it. >> >> Thanks again for any help. >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: Bob Ippolito >>> Date: November 14, 2003 9:26:31 AM EST >>> To: Bob W >>> Cc: pythonmac-sig@python.org >>> Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help with TKinter under 10.3 >>> >>> >>> On Nov 14, 2003, at 9:02 AM, Bob W wrote: >>> >>>> Sorry if this has been answered before. I did look thru the >>>> archive, but did not find anything that seems to fit my request. >>>> Also, I am new to Python and TclTk. >>>> >>>> I run 10.3.1 on a Powerbook G4 and keep the OS up2date. I am >>>> trying to get Tcl/Tk to work with the Apple-Installed version of >>>> python. I downloaded MacPython and installed it. Then I installed >>>> _tkinter using PackageManager.Then I downloaded TclTkAqua and >>>> installed it. I then reinstalled (ie upgraded MacPython then >>>> _tkinter), because sometimes the order of these things seems to be >>>> important. "import _tkinter" now works, but "import TKinter" does >>>> not (ie can't find the module). >>>> >>>> Could someone please point out what I am doing wrong? Thanks you >>>> for your help. >>> >>> Check your shift key? It's called Tkinter, not TKinter. >>> Capitalization matters in Python, even though it doesn't in the >>> filesystem. >>> >>> -bob >> _______________________________________________ >> Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig From artelse at mohr-i.nl Fri Nov 14 20:35:06 2003 From: artelse at mohr-i.nl (Arthur Elsenaar) Date: Fri Nov 14 20:35:16 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] pyUI? Message-ID: Hi, does anyone got pyUI to work on OS X? I get a WGL import error and don't know how to fix this. I tried version 0.95, although there is a 1.0 for win32 available at http://pyui.sf.net. I did get pygame, pyopengl to work fine, thanks for those who helped! Arthur From byronea at u.washington.edu Fri Nov 14 22:44:15 2003 From: byronea at u.washington.edu (Byron Amerson) Date: Fri Nov 14 22:44:23 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] SciPy compile issue... In-Reply-To: <3826AD56-16CB-11D8-9397-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <3826AD56-16CB-11D8-9397-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: All right, I figured I'd keep things over here for a minute. To answer your questions Bob: [Tectonic:~] byron% gcc -v Reading specs from /usr/libexec/gcc/darwin/ppc/3.3/specs Thread model: posix gcc version 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495) [Tectonic:~] byron% g77 --version GNU Fortran (GCC) 3.4 20031015 (experimental) Copyright (C) 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. So after reading the SciPy list and seeing that other fellow's issue - it looks like a I may have an ugly fink-ism, I remember noticing gcc3.4 being installed awhile back when I added some package via fink. How do I selectively disable gcc3.4? Byron Amerson MS student University of Washington Department of Earth and Space Sciences On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Bob Ippolito wrote: > On Nov 14, 2003, at 12:21 PM, Byron Amerson wrote: > > > OK, I know this is not directly MacPython related but the SciPy > > mail-list > > daemon is not working...and this is python related :] > > > > If anyone has any insight it would be much appreciated - > > > > the following error comes up when attempting to install SciPy on my > > imac > > running 10.3, with the environment variable: setenv ATLAS /sw/lib (a > > few > > lines of output from above the error message included) > > > > getctype: No C-type found in "{'attrspec': ['external']}", assuming > > void. > > getctype: No C-type found in "{'attrspec': ['external']}", assuming > > void. > > getctype: No C-type found in "{'attrspec': ['external']}", assuming > > void. > > omega = > > init_convolution_kernel(n,kernel_func,[d,zero_nyquist,kernel_func_extra > > _args]) > > Constructing wrapper function > > "destroy_convolve_cache"... > > destroy_convolve_cache() > > Constructing wrapper function "convolve"... > > y = convolve(x,omega,[swap_real_imag,overwrite_x]) > > Constructing wrapper function "convolve_z"... > > y = convolve_z(x,omega_real,omega_imag,[overwrite_x]) > > Wrote C/API module "convolve" to file > > "build/temp.darwin-7.0.0-Power_Macintosh-2.3/convolvemodule.c" > > running build_flib > > f771: error: unrecognized command line option "-arch" > > f771: fatal error: can't open ppc: No such file or directory > > compilation terminated. > > error: failure during compile (exit status = 256) > > from __disclaimer__ import i_dont_know_fortran_very_well > > Which fortran compiler is that? It looks like it's passing g77 options > to a non-g77 compiler? I've been planning on getting a Panther build > of scipy out sometime soon, but I too have had some fortran issues in > naive attempts, I haven't put any serious time into it. I'd like to > this weekend, but I've got other commitments so I doubt I'll have a lot > of MacPython time to spare. > > -bob From Martina at Oefelein.de Sun Nov 16 15:55:58 2003 From: Martina at Oefelein.de (Martina Oefelein) Date: Sun Nov 16 15:56:10 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Additional Package Manager database for 10.3 now available In-Reply-To: <0FA6974D-1473-11D8-A73F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <83BF88A7-11BE-11D8-92AB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <430BCD49-13F0-11D8-9773-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <0FA6974D-1473-11D8-A73F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <47260682-1877-11D8-AB1A-000A957DBE94@Oefelein.de> Hi Bob, when I tried to download Cheetah from your Panther database, Package Manager reported the following error: Problem with dependency: (WriteableBin): This package cannot be installed automatically (no Download-URL field) Well, this error message isn't that helpful. I'm apparently supposed to figure out that this refers to a hidden package named (WriteableBin), and to check "Show Hidden", locate the package, and read its description in order to fix the issue. I think there has to be a better way. Maybe Package Manager should be extended to provide a way to report such dependencies in a user-friendly manner. Second issue: The description of (WriteableBin) says that I should grant admins write access to /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/bin. Am I the only one who is a bit scared of installing software into /System or granting anybody write access there? Is it really necessary? This directory is not even on my path, so why do files have to live there? ciao Martina From bob at redivi.com Sun Nov 16 16:01:29 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sun Nov 16 16:01:30 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Additional Package Manager database for 10.3 now available In-Reply-To: <47260682-1877-11D8-AB1A-000A957DBE94@Oefelein.de> References: <83BF88A7-11BE-11D8-92AB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <430BCD49-13F0-11D8-9773-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <0FA6974D-1473-11D8-A73F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <47260682-1877-11D8-AB1A-000A957DBE94@Oefelein.de> Message-ID: <0D0A33F9-1878-11D8-9565-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 16, 2003, at 3:55 PM, Martina Oefelein wrote: > Hi Bob, > > when I tried to download Cheetah from your Panther database, Package > Manager reported the following error: > > Problem with dependency: (WriteableBin): This package cannot be > installed automatically (no Download-URL field) > > Well, this error message isn't that helpful. I'm apparently supposed > to figure out that this refers to a hidden package named > (WriteableBin), and to check "Show Hidden", locate the package, and > read its description in order to fix the issue. I think there has to > be a better way. Maybe Package Manager should be extended to provide a > way to report such dependencies in a user-friendly manner. This is a well known problem with Package Manager. > Second issue: The description of (WriteableBin) says that I should > grant admins write access to > /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/bin. Am I the > only one who is a bit scared of installing software into /System or > granting anybody write access there? Is it really necessary? This > directory is not even on my path, so why do files have to live there? You're right to be scared of it, it's bad. This is a well known problem with distutils on OS X. The only fix would be for me to rewrite the setup.py for every package in my repository, or to rewrite parts of distutils. This is the for-now solution. Because Apple puts "site-packages" in /Library/Python/2.3, there is no obvious canonical place to put python scripts, except maybe /usr/local/bin. -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031116/35aa0c40/smime.bin From Martina at Oefelein.de Sun Nov 16 16:09:57 2003 From: Martina at Oefelein.de (Martina Oefelein) Date: Sun Nov 16 16:10:04 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Additional Package Manager database for 10.3 now available In-Reply-To: <0D0A33F9-1878-11D8-9565-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <83BF88A7-11BE-11D8-92AB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <430BCD49-13F0-11D8-9773-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <0FA6974D-1473-11D8-A73F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <47260682-1877-11D8-AB1A-000A957DBE94@Oefelein.de> <0D0A33F9-1878-11D8-9565-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <3B65552D-1879-11D8-AB1A-000A957DBE94@Oefelein.de> Hi Bob, > Because Apple puts "site-packages" in /Library/Python/2.3, there is no > obvious canonical place to put python scripts, except maybe > /usr/local/bin. I think /usr/local/bin would be fine. A lot of packages install command-line utilities there, therefore many people will have this already in their path. ciao Martina From bob at redivi.com Sun Nov 16 16:36:09 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sun Nov 16 16:36:07 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Additional Package Manager database for 10.3 now available In-Reply-To: <3B65552D-1879-11D8-AB1A-000A957DBE94@Oefelein.de> References: <83BF88A7-11BE-11D8-92AB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <430BCD49-13F0-11D8-9773-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <0FA6974D-1473-11D8-A73F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <47260682-1877-11D8-AB1A-000A957DBE94@Oefelein.de> <0D0A33F9-1878-11D8-9565-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <3B65552D-1879-11D8-AB1A-000A957DBE94@Oefelein.de> Message-ID: On Nov 16, 2003, at 4:09 PM, Martina Oefelein wrote: >> Because Apple puts "site-packages" in /Library/Python/2.3, there is >> no obvious canonical place to put python scripts, except maybe >> /usr/local/bin. > > I think /usr/local/bin would be fine. A lot of packages install > command-line utilities there, therefore many people will have this > already in their path. Me too, but I'm not particularly eager to change every setup.py for every package in my repository. This change needs to happen in distutils. I'd prefer to put things in an obviously-python directory (preferably in some structure such that it's obvious which module/package owns which script), and put convenience symlinks in /usr/local/bin -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031116/375b1917/smime.bin From oussoren at cistron.nl Mon Nov 17 01:54:18 2003 From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Mon Nov 17 01:54:25 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Additional Package Manager database for 10.3 now available In-Reply-To: <0D0A33F9-1878-11D8-9565-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <83BF88A7-11BE-11D8-92AB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <430BCD49-13F0-11D8-9773-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <0FA6974D-1473-11D8-A73F-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <47260682-1877-11D8-AB1A-000A957DBE94@Oefelein.de> <0D0A33F9-1878-11D8-9565-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: On 16 nov 2003, at 22:01, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Nov 16, 2003, at 3:55 PM, Martina Oefelein wrote: > >> Second issue: The description of (WriteableBin) says that I should >> grant admins write access to >> /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/bin. Am I >> the only one who is a bit scared of installing software into /System >> or granting anybody write access there? Is it really necessary? This >> directory is not even on my path, so why do files have to live there? > > You're right to be scared of it, it's bad. This is a well known > problem with distutils on OS X. The only fix would be for me to > rewrite the setup.py for every package in my repository, or to rewrite > parts of distutils. It's not that bad, you could also use 'python setup.py install --install-scripts=/usr/local/bin'. This should install scripts into /usr/local/bin. The real problem is header-files, even if you could install those somewhere else you wouldn't be able to actually use them without replacing distutils or the setup.py of packages using the headers. Ronald From jorisverstappen at yahoo.com Mon Nov 17 02:00:28 2003 From: jorisverstappen at yahoo.com (Joris Verstappen) Date: Mon Nov 17 02:00:30 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython-OS9 2.2.3 & Tkinter Message-ID: <20031117070028.4295.qmail@web20603.mail.yahoo.com> I have to work with a Python program that uses Tkinter a lot, so I installed only the Classic part of MacPython-OS9 2.2.3; since I use MacOS 8.1, I also installed the patch for that. But still I can't get Tkinter to work; every time I want to start a program or script that uses it, I get the following error: Traceback (most recent call last): File "Macintosh HD 1:Programma's:MacPython-OS9 2.2.3:Demo:tkinter:guido:hello.py", line 4, in ? from Tkinter import * File "Macintosh HD 1:Programma's:MacPython-OS9 2.2.3:Lib:lib-tk:Tkinter.py", line 35, in ? import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk ImportError: WindowsLib: The named library was not found. The only WindowsLib I can find on my HD is part of MPW; do I have to move this one around, or did I (or someone else ;-) ) mess up my System Folder? Thanks if anyone can help me, Joris Verstappen ===== "An Apple a day keeps the doctor away!" This mail came from Joris Verstappen. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Mon Nov 17 05:38:10 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Mon Nov 17 05:37:56 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython-OS9 2.2.3 & Tkinter In-Reply-To: <20031117070028.4295.qmail@web20603.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031117070028.4295.qmail@web20603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <23AED5FA-18EA-11D8-80BE-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> On 17 Nov 2003, at 8:00, Joris Verstappen wrote: > I have to work with a Python program that uses Tkinter a lot, so I > installed only the Classic part > of MacPython-OS9 2.2.3; since I use MacOS 8.1, I also installed the > patch for that. > > But still I can't get Tkinter to work; every time I want to start a > program or script that uses > it, I get the following error: > > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "Macintosh HD 1:Programma's:MacPython-OS9 > 2.2.3:Demo:tkinter:guido:hello.py", line 4, in ? > from Tkinter import * > File "Macintosh HD 1:Programma's:MacPython-OS9 > 2.2.3:Lib:lib-tk:Tkinter.py", line 35, in ? > import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured > for Tk > ImportError: WindowsLib: The named library was not found. > > The only WindowsLib I can find on my HD is part of MPW; do I have to > move this one around, or did > I (or someone else ;-) ) mess up my System Folder? Wow, this is all a very long time ago for me, but I seem to remember that WindowsLib was introduced with the Appearance Manager. Let me google... Yes, and actually I gave the answer right here, 3 years ago: . So, you should find an Appearance 1.1 installer for MacOS 8.1. 8.1 comes with Appearance 1.0, but you can upgrade it to 1.1 (which shipped with OS 8.5).Hunting the Apple download site should probably help, I've digged up lots of really old stuff there. -- Jack Jansen http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From hengist.podd at virgin.net Tue Nov 18 06:45:35 2003 From: hengist.podd at virgin.net (has) Date: Tue Nov 18 06:45:45 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 Message-ID: Hello all, First release of AppScripting, a new OSA module, is available for your pleasure and amusement: http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/AppScripting.sit Unstuff the AppScripting folder and drop it into MacPython's site-packages folder. Example: - AppleScript: tell application "TextEdit" set size of character 1 of every word of text of document 1 to 24 end - Python: import AppScripting textedit = AppScripting.app('/Applications/TextEdit.app') textedit.documents[0].text.words.characters[0].size.set(24) Documentation's still to do, but you should get a decent idea of how it works from the bundled EXAMPLES.py file. The front end is fairly complete, though there's still quite a bit to do out-back: - 'whose' filter and ' thru ' range reference forms - proper system for specifying target applications (currently requires full path to application and is reliant on creator codes so won't work with all apps, eg Address Book) - support required suite events for non-scriptable apps (currently choke on apps without aetes) - more support for OSA's plethora of weird and wonderful types - streamline aete reader - anything else. Anyone wants to help out, would be appreciated. Cheers, has -- http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/ From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Tue Nov 18 10:20:54 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Tue Nov 18 10:21:10 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 18-nov-03, at 12:45, has wrote: > Hello all, > > First release of AppScripting, a new OSA module, is available for your > pleasure and amusement: > > http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/AppScripting.sit Wow, good stuff! Are you aware of Bob Ippolito's aeve module? Was this done in parallel, or are there specific things you don't like about aeve? The one very great advantage of your stuff is that it is pure python, but aeve is better than AppScripting in a couple of areas: better handling of getting at the aete and it generates documentation. -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From bernu at lptl.jussieu.fr Tue Nov 18 10:48:31 2003 From: bernu at lptl.jussieu.fr (Bernard Bernu) Date: Tue Nov 18 10:47:05 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Short question, Can Python be called from AppleScript? AppleScript is great for manipulating things, specially from Smile: http://www.satimage.fr/software/en/index.html But Python has lots of good stuff for "small" computing. I'd like to have these two communicating. What do you think ? Sincerely, Bernard Bernu Le mardi, 18 nov 2003, ? 16:20 Europe/Paris, Jack Jansen a ?crit : > > On 18-nov-03, at 12:45, has wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> First release of AppScripting, a new OSA module, is available for >> your pleasure and amusement: >> >> http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/AppScripting.sit > > Wow, good stuff! > > Are you aware of Bob Ippolito's aeve module? Was this done in > parallel, or are there specific things you don't like about aeve? > > The one very great advantage of your stuff is that it is pure python, > but aeve is better than AppScripting in a couple of areas: better > handling of getting at the aete and it generates documentation. > -- > Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack > If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma > Goldman > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > ________________________________________________________________________ _____ Bernard Bernu | Internet : bernu@lptl.jussieu.fr. Physique Th?orique des Liquides | http://www.lptl.jussieu.fr/users/bernu 4, place Jussieu, Tour 16, Et. 5 | Tel : (33) 01 44 27 72 38 Bo?te 121 | Fax : (33) 01 44 27 51 00 75252 Paris Cedex 05, France | From mjb at uma.pt Tue Nov 18 12:32:57 2003 From: mjb at uma.pt (Michael J. Barber) Date: Tue Nov 18 12:32:25 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3FBC48B8-19ED-11D8-B264-0050E4794D0F@uma.pt> Absolutely it can! Take a look at the "do shell script" command in the Standard Additions. That said, I usually go the other way using osascript and osacompile. On Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003, at 17:10 Europe/Lisbon, pythonmac-sig-request@python.org wrote: > Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 > > > Short question, > Can Python be called from AppleScript? > AppleScript is great for manipulating things, > specially from Smile: http://www.satimage.fr/software/en/index.html > But Python has lots of good stuff for "small" computing. > I'd like to have these two communicating. > What do you think ? > Sincerely, > Bernard Bernu From bob at redivi.com Tue Nov 18 12:42:55 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue Nov 18 12:43:07 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 In-Reply-To: <3FBC48B8-19ED-11D8-B264-0050E4794D0F@uma.pt> References: <3FBC48B8-19ED-11D8-B264-0050E4794D0F@uma.pt> Message-ID: Also, applications written in Python can respond to arbitrary apple events just like anything else. You can also do it just like a Cocoa app In PyObjC CVS (example does not yet exist though). -bob On Nov 18, 2003, at 12:32 PM, Michael J. Barber wrote: > Absolutely it can! Take a look at the "do shell script" command in the > Standard Additions. > > That said, I usually go the other way using osascript and osacompile. > > On Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003, at 17:10 Europe/Lisbon, > pythonmac-sig-request@python.org wrote: > >> Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 >> >> >> Short question, >> Can Python be called from AppleScript? >> AppleScript is great for manipulating things, >> specially from Smile: http://www.satimage.fr/software/en/index.html >> But Python has lots of good stuff for "small" computing. >> I'd like to have these two communicating. >> What do you think ? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031118/21c431c6/smime.bin From richardac at mac.com Tue Nov 18 13:18:07 2003 From: richardac at mac.com (Richard Collins) Date: Tue Nov 18 13:18:18 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8EE483C0-19F3-11D8-BCC6-000A27B3E504@mac.com> > From: has > Date: 18 november 2003 12:45:35 GMT+01:00 > To: pythonmac-sig@python.org > Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 > > > Hello all, > > First release of AppScripting, a new OSA module, is available for your > pleasure and amusement: > > http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/AppScripting.sit > > > Unstuff the AppScripting folder and drop it into MacPython's > site-packages folder. > > Excuse my ignorance but for me there is some confusion about where this folder goes. I have 10.3.1 and MacPython installed. When I look inside the MacPython folder there is no 'site-packages' folder. so asking google gives me some idea where it should go, then I search my drive for 'site-packages', and it only appears at /usr/lib/python2.2/, and also in a /Library/Frameworks/ folder, also a 2.2 version. My confusion is that when I run python it tells me I have 2.3, but my machine has no 'python2.3' folders? best regards Richard Collins From bob at redivi.com Tue Nov 18 13:55:11 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue Nov 18 13:56:28 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 In-Reply-To: <8EE483C0-19F3-11D8-BCC6-000A27B3E504@mac.com> References: <8EE483C0-19F3-11D8-BCC6-000A27B3E504@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 18, 2003, at 1:18 PM, Richard Collins wrote: >> From: has >> Date: 18 november 2003 12:45:35 GMT+01:00 >> To: pythonmac-sig@python.org >> Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 >> >> >> Hello all, >> >> First release of AppScripting, a new OSA module, is available for >> your pleasure and amusement: >> >> http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/AppScripting.sit >> >> >> Unstuff the AppScripting folder and drop it into MacPython's >> site-packages folder. >> >> > > Excuse my ignorance but for me there is some confusion about where > this folder goes. > > I have 10.3.1 and MacPython installed. > > When I look inside the MacPython folder there is no 'site-packages' > folder. so asking google gives me some idea where it should go, then I > search my drive for 'site-packages', and it only appears at > /usr/lib/python2.2/, and also in a /Library/Frameworks/ folder, also a > 2.2 version. > > My confusion is that when I run python it tells me I have 2.3, but my > machine has no 'python2.3' folders? /Library/Python/2.3 is your "site-packages" folder for the version of MacPython included with OS X 10.3.. the actual site-packages is in the depths of /System, but it's a symlink to /Library/Python/2.3 You have a bunch of old junk around from previous versions of OS X, a clean install of 10.3 wouldn't have /usr/lib/python2.2 and you shouldn't really have a version of Python in /Library/Frameworks under 10.3. -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031118/badf8fc2/smime.bin From Martina at Oefelein.de Tue Nov 18 14:15:06 2003 From: Martina at Oefelein.de (Martina Oefelein) Date: Tue Nov 18 14:16:15 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PackageManager bug: deselect show hidden: indexerror Message-ID: <85064730-19FB-11D8-AB1A-000A957DBE94@Oefelein.de> Hi Jack, I found a hidden crasher in PackageManager: Select "Show hidden". Select the last package in the list Deselect "Show hidden": IndexError: list index out of range Traceback: File "Wapplication.py", line 45, in mainloop self.do1event(mask, wait) File "FrameWork.py", line 194, in do1event self.dispatch(event) File "FrameWork.py", line 227, in dispatch handler(event) File "FrameWork.py", line 289, in do_mouseDown handler(partcode, wid, event) File "FrameWork.py", line 836, in do_inContent self.do_contentclick(local, modifiers, event) File "Wwindows.py", line 336, in do_contentclick widget.click(point, modifiers) File "Wcontrols.py", line 241, in click Wbase.CallbackCall(self._callback, 0, self.get()) File "Wbase.py", line 684, in CallbackCall return callback() File "PackageManager.py", line 386, in updatestatus installed, message = self.getstatus(sel) File "PackageManager.py", line 316, in getstatus pkg = self.packages[number] ciao Martina From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov Tue Nov 18 19:32:53 2003 From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Chris Barker) Date: Tue Nov 18 19:32:59 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] How do I set type and creator? In-Reply-To: <25BDB692-0D87-11D8-981D-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: Hi folks, I need to set the type and creator for a file I just created. I used to be abel to do this with: import macfs mac_file = macfs.FSSpec(MyfilePath) mac_file.SetCreatorType('COSM','.SAV') Now it looks like I want to use the Carbon.File module, but I'm getting lost in the details: File.FSMakeFSSpec() requires a volume reference number and directory ID...I have no idea where to get those. I'm a bit lost in the Inside Macintosh references. There has to be an easy way to do this!! thanks, Chris Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT (206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception Chris.Barker@noaa.gov From bob at redivi.com Tue Nov 18 20:09:30 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue Nov 18 20:09:25 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] How do I set type and creator? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <073F5C94-1A2D-11D8-8E2E-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 18, 2003, at 7:32 PM, Chris Barker wrote: > I need to set the type and creator for a file I just created. I used > to be abel to do this with: > > import macfs > mac_file = macfs.FSSpec(MyfilePath) > mac_file.SetCreatorType('COSM','.SAV') > > Now it looks like I want to use the Carbon.File module, but I'm > getting lost in the details: > > File.FSMakeFSSpec() requires a volume reference number and directory > ID...I have no idea where to get those. I'm a bit lost in the Inside > Macintosh references. There has to be an easy way to do this!! I dunno, but this should work if you have PyObjC: from Foundation import NSFileManager, NSFileHFSCreatorCode, NSFileHFSTypeCode import struct def fourcc(s): return struct.unpack('>I', s)[0] def setCreatorType(path, creator, typ): attributes = { NSFileHFSCreatorCode: fourcc(creator), NSFileHFSTypeCode: fourcc(typ), } NSFileManager.defaultManager().changeFileAttributes_atPath_(attributes, path) -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031118/3d31d6f9/smime.bin From just at letterror.com Wed Nov 19 03:39:08 2003 From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum) Date: Wed Nov 19 03:44:51 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] How do I set type and creator? In-Reply-To: <073F5C94-1A2D-11D8-8E2E-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Nov 18, 2003, at 7:32 PM, Chris Barker wrote: > > > I need to set the type and creator for a file I just created. I used > > to be abel to do this with: > > > > import macfs > > mac_file = macfs.FSSpec(MyfilePath) > > mac_file.SetCreatorType('COSM','.SAV') > > > > Now it looks like I want to use the Carbon.File module, but I'm > > getting lost in the details: > > > > File.FSMakeFSSpec() requires a volume reference number and directory > > ID...I have no idea where to get those. I'm a bit lost in the Inside > > Macintosh references. There has to be an easy way to do this!! > > I dunno, but this should work if you have PyObjC: [ ...snip... ] Actually, the best and easiest way is through MacOS.GetCreatorAndType() and MacOS.SetCreatorAndType(). Just From hengist.podd at virgin.net Wed Nov 19 04:11:48 2003 From: hengist.podd at virgin.net (has) Date: Wed Nov 19 04:12:34 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jack wrote: >Are you aware of Bob Ippolito's aeve module? Ran across Bob's module a couple weeks ago, just after I started writing AS. (We've talked a bit off-list since then, but the two projects remain separate.) >Was this done in parallel, or are there specific things you don't >like about aeve? Aeve constructs scripting interfaces in much the same way as gensuitemodule, assembling and compiling source code to create a bunch of classes and commands to represent the classes and commands listed in an application's dictionary. This works, but it's rather complicated and labour-intensive, and it fills your site-packages folder with a ton of application-specific gsm-generated modules which seems a bit untidy. The trick is that when a user interacts with OSA they're not manipulating an actual object model, merely an interface that looks like one. All you need do is model the OSA interface - i.e. the half-dozen reference forms provided by OSA and the command calling mechanism (see ScriptingInterface.py) - then use Python's whizzy introspection facilities to make objects appear to have the various attributes described by a given application's aete. This gives a simpler, one-size-fits-all solution. >The one very great advantage of your stuff is that it is pure >python, but aeve is better than AppScripting in a couple of areas: >better handling of getting at the aete and it generates >documentation. Heh, well Bob's had a bit of a head start on me;). Both are on the to-do list though. More important stuff includes figuring out how to create typeAppSignature AEDescs (or equivalent) for apps like Address Book that don't have creator codes, and how best to implement the user interface for the by-test reference form (aka 'whose clauses'). I'm also curious if folk find the app() constructor fast enough or if I'll need to optimise it. (It shouldn't cause too big an overall performance hit if you only call it once per app needed and store the result in a variable, but it is a bit on the slow side for my tastes.) Cheers, has -- http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/ From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Wed Nov 19 05:52:46 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Wed Nov 19 05:52:28 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <82A7567D-1A7E-11D8-9FE1-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> On 19 Nov 2003, at 10:11, has wrote: > More important stuff includes figuring out how to create > typeAppSignature AEDescs (or equivalent) for apps like Address Book > that don't have creator codes, and how best to implement the user > interface for the by-test reference form (aka 'whose clauses'). Assume that a LaunchServices or ApplicationServices or whatever module will be available soon. That'll solve the first problem, right? The second problem is more of a design problem, Python has no language construct for this that we could use. But the bad news is that I don't have an easy solution either:-( -- Jack Jansen http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From bob at redivi.com Wed Nov 19 08:38:46 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Wed Nov 19 08:38:43 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 19, 2003, at 4:11 AM, has wrote: > Jack wrote: > >> Was this done in parallel, or are there specific things you don't >> like about aeve? > > Aeve constructs scripting interfaces in much the same way as > gensuitemodule, assembling and compiling source code to create a bunch > of classes and commands to represent the classes and commands listed > in an application's dictionary. This works, but it's rather > complicated and labour-intensive, and it fills your site-packages > folder with a ton of application-specific gsm-generated modules which > seems a bit untidy. This isn't true at all! aeve never ever writes a file to disk unless you're running the suite generator or doc generator. The compiler compiles directly to in-memory Python modules (creates classes/modules/etc on the fly without exec/eval). The introspector and doc generator run *after* this merely by introspecting what had been created. gensuitemodule does work as you describe, though. -bob From hengist.podd at virgin.net Wed Nov 19 09:54:06 2003 From: hengist.podd at virgin.net (has) Date: Wed Nov 19 09:55:09 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <8EE483C0-19F3-11D8-BCC6-000A27B3E504@mac.com> Message-ID: Bob wrote: >>Excuse my ignorance but for me there is some confusion about where >>this folder goes. >> >>I have 10.3.1 and MacPython installed. >> >>My confusion is that when I run python it tells me I have 2.3, but >>my machine has no 'python2.3' folders? > >/Library/Python/2.3 is your "site-packages" folder for the version >of MacPython included with OS X 10.3.. the actual site-packages is >in the depths of /System, but it's a symlink to /Library/Python/2.3 Ahh, didn't know about that - thanks Bob. How about if I write a distutils setup script next time - will that work for 10.3's MacPython install? Ta, has -- http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/ From bob at redivi.com Wed Nov 19 10:08:27 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Wed Nov 19 10:08:19 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <8EE483C0-19F3-11D8-BCC6-000A27B3E504@mac.com> Message-ID: <3AD5A0AC-1AA2-11D8-B7C4-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 9:54 AM, has wrote: > Bob wrote: > >>> Excuse my ignorance but for me there is some confusion about where >>> this folder goes. >>> >>> I have 10.3.1 and MacPython installed. >>> >>> My confusion is that when I run python it tells me I have 2.3, but >>> my machine has no 'python2.3' folders? >> >> /Library/Python/2.3 is your "site-packages" folder for the version of >> MacPython included with OS X 10.3.. the actual site-packages is in >> the depths of /System, but it's a symlink to /Library/Python/2.3 > > Ahh, didn't know about that - thanks Bob. How about if I write a > distutils setup script next time - will that work for 10.3's MacPython > install? Yes, distutils is the way. -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031119/f4ba375a/smime.bin From hengist.podd at virgin.net Wed Nov 19 10:23:32 2003 From: hengist.podd at virgin.net (has) Date: Wed Nov 19 13:02:38 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bob, stout fellow! Do not panic(!), for those are not your toes that lie now on the floor! Oh, there goes my other foot. Damn, now I fall over. Clearly a fault in the pre-alpha translation from Gobbledygook to Incomprehensiblese. Yes, I did describe the GSM modus-operandi in detail (which aeve doesn't follow) when I should've stuck sensibly to the abstract (where it does). Perhaps something like: "Aeve constructs interfaces in much the same way as gensuitemodule, assembling a bunch of custom classes and commands to represent the classes and commands listed in an application's dictionary. This works, but it's rather complicated and labour-intensive." Please to beat me with competent editorialship, your forgiveness I hope. Foolish, has >On Nov 19, 2003, at 4:11 AM, has wrote: > >>Jack wrote: >> >>>Was this done in parallel, or are there specific things you don't >>>like about aeve? >> >>Aeve constructs scripting interfaces in much the same way as >>gensuitemodule, assembling and compiling source code to create a >>bunch of classes and commands to represent the classes and commands >>listed in an application's dictionary. This works, but it's rather >>complicated and labour-intensive, and it fills your site-packages >>folder with a ton of application-specific gsm-generated modules >>which seems a bit untidy. > >This isn't true at all! aeve never ever writes a file to disk >unless you're running the suite generator or doc generator. The >compiler compiles directly to in-memory Python modules (creates >classes/modules/etc on the fly without exec/eval). The introspector >and doc generator run *after* this merely by introspecting what had >been created. > >gensuitemodule does work as you describe, though. > >-bob -- http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/ From hengist.podd at virgin.net Wed Nov 19 12:10:13 2003 From: hengist.podd at virgin.net (has) Date: Wed Nov 19 13:02:47 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 In-Reply-To: <82A7567D-1A7E-11D8-9FE1-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> References: <82A7567D-1A7E-11D8-9FE1-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> Message-ID: Jack wrote: >On 19 Nov 2003, at 10:11, has wrote: >>More important stuff includes figuring out how to create >>typeAppSignature AEDescs (or equivalent) for apps like Address Book >>that don't have creator codes, and how best to implement the user >>interface for the by-test reference form (aka 'whose clauses'). > >Assume that a LaunchServices or ApplicationServices or whatever >module will be available soon. That'll solve the first problem, >right? Afraid I'm too ignorant of the lower workings of MacOS to give an answer. Must defer to smarter minds for that. >The second problem is more of a design problem, Python has no >language construct for this that we could use. But the bad news is >that I don't have an easy solution either:-( The options I can think of are: 1. Let users work directly with the various test-related classes, eg: imagesRef = blah.blah.blah.whose(AS.is_in(AS.ref.name_extension, ['gif', 'jpg', 'png'])) (This'd be simple to implement, but also the least pleasant to use.) 2. Let users express the test as an interpolated string that's parsed for meaning internally, eg: imagesRef = blah.blah.blah.whose('name_extension is in $', ['gif', 'jpg', 'png']) (This'd require a basic parser, but nothing I couldn't write myself. And Python folk are already used to %-interpolated strings so shouldn't find this variant too tedious.) 3. Let users express the test as a series of attribute accesses and method calls: imagesRef = blah.blah.blah.whose.name_extension.is_in(['gif', 'jpg', 'png']) (This is just an extension of the approach ScriptingInterface uses to build OSA object specifiers - a series of chained __getattr__ calls hanging off a smart 'whose' object that assembles the OSA expression.) Any thoughts? has -- http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/ From bob at redivi.com Wed Nov 19 13:42:07 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Wed Nov 19 13:42:09 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13EC44F5-1AC0-11D8-B7C4-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 10:23 AM, has wrote: >> On Nov 19, 2003, at 4:11 AM, has wrote: >> >>> Jack wrote: >>> >>>> Was this done in parallel, or are there specific things you don't >>>> like about aeve? >>> >>> Aeve constructs scripting interfaces in much the same way as >>> gensuitemodule, assembling and compiling source code to create a >>> bunch of classes and commands to represent the classes and commands >>> listed in an application's dictionary. This works, but it's rather >>> complicated and labour-intensive, and it fills your site-packages >>> folder with a ton of application-specific gsm-generated modules >>> which seems a bit untidy. >> >> This isn't true at all! aeve never ever writes a file to disk unless >> you're running the suite generator or doc generator. The compiler >> compiles directly to in-memory Python modules (creates >> classes/modules/etc on the fly without exec/eval). The introspector >> and doc generator run *after* this merely by introspecting what had >> been created. >> >> gensuitemodule does work as you describe, though. > Bob, stout fellow! Do not panic(!), for those are not your toes that > lie now on the floor! Oh, there goes my > other foot. Damn, now I fall over. > > Clearly a fault in the pre-alpha translation from Gobbledygook to > Incomprehensiblese. Yes, I did describe the GSM modus-operandi in > detail (which aeve doesn't follow) when I should've stuck sensibly to > the abstract (where it does). Perhaps something like: > > "Aeve constructs interfaces in much the same way as gensuitemodule, > assembling a bunch of custom classes and commands to represent the > classes and commands listed in an application's dictionary. This > works, but it's rather complicated and labour-intensive." > > Please to beat me with competent editorialship, your forgiveness I > hope. Foolish, aeve does the following when you do aeve.talkto('something'): (1) find the application using 'something' as an identifier (by LaunchServices and several other means) (2) If the application's interface is not already generated then: (a) gets the aete(s) from the application (by several means) (b) converts the aete(s) into python modules, classes, objects (respecting inheritance, etc.). Throws them all in a registry so they can be converted to/from AEDescs at the bridge. (c) cache this interface (3) instantiate and returns the application object mixed in with a "talkto" class so that you can use it directly aeve does not ever use __getattr__ hacks and figure it out sometime later. It does things the way that Python typically does things; members are in the class __dict__, it uses normal Python class inheritance mechanisms, etc. aeve can do some AppleScript style late evaluation if you dereference from the class instead of the instance. This will be improved with the next major release. The next major release will also flatten it to a 2-level namespace (app->name) instead of the current 3-level namespace (app->suite->name) which should fix all of the "aeve can't talk to this application" bugs in one fell swoop. I would not say "much in the same way as gensuitemodule", it's *very* different from how gensuitemodule works. A much more accurate description is that aeve is PyObjC for Apple Events. It can spit out actual python files like gensuitemodule does, but that is primarily for debugging the core (so I could see/tweak what was generated) and fixing broken interfaces (which is better done at runtime once you know what to fix). This way of doing things provides some significant advantages (doc generation, introspection, etc.) over what you're doing. Complicated, I'll give you that, but that's my problem as the author not yours as the end user. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by labor intensive, it's not hard to use, and it takes a trivial amount of time to create the interface (which is then cached). It can take a few seconds to get the aete from some applications because it has to open a connection to WindowServer, but this only happens once per run and it's probably possible to optimize this out (since Apple Events don't actually need WindowServer, from what Apple says). I'd imagine that the actual runtime performance of aeve would be as fast or faster than what you're doing, since it does most of the work up front and pushes more of the work "more directly" to Python as it does not use __getattr__ and such, but that still doesn't matter. -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031119/c862ab6d/smime.bin From bob at redivi.com Wed Nov 19 13:50:02 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Wed Nov 19 13:50:01 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <82A7567D-1A7E-11D8-9FE1-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <2F425F99-1AC1-11D8-B7C4-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 12:10 PM, has wrote: > Jack wrote: > >> On 19 Nov 2003, at 10:11, has wrote: >>> More important stuff includes figuring out how to create >>> typeAppSignature AEDescs (or equivalent) for apps like Address Book >>> that don't have creator codes, and how best to implement the user >>> interface for the by-test reference form (aka 'whose clauses'). >> >> Assume that a LaunchServices or ApplicationServices or whatever >> module will be available soon. That'll solve the first problem, >> right? > > Afraid I'm too ignorant of the lower workings of MacOS to give an > answer. Must defer to smarter minds for that. > > >> The second problem is more of a design problem, Python has no >> language construct for this that we could use. But the bad news is >> that I don't have an easy solution either:-( > > The options I can think of are: > > 1. Let users work directly with the various test-related classes, eg: > > imagesRef = blah.blah.blah.whose(AS.is_in(AS.ref.name_extension, > ['gif', 'jpg', 'png'])) > > (This'd be simple to implement, but also the least pleasant to use.) > > > 2. Let users express the test as an interpolated string that's parsed > for meaning internally, eg: > > imagesRef = blah.blah.blah.whose('name_extension is in $', ['gif', > 'jpg', 'png']) > > (This'd require a basic parser, but nothing I couldn't write myself. > And Python folk are already used to %-interpolated strings so > shouldn't find this variant too tedious.) > > > 3. Let users express the test as a series of attribute accesses and > method calls: > > imagesRef = blah.blah.blah.whose.name_extension.is_in(['gif', > 'jpg', 'png']) > > (This is just an extension of the approach ScriptingInterface uses to > build OSA object specifiers - a series of chained __getattr__ calls > hanging off a smart 'whose' object that assembles the OSA expression.) Yeah, this is the biggest reason why I haven't implemented comparisons in aeve. I couldn't think of a non-ugly way to make the application do it through the bridge so right now I use Python to filter stuff (which can be much slower but more powerful and easier). -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031119/df3bb742/smime.bin From bob at redivi.com Wed Nov 19 14:54:43 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Wed Nov 19 14:54:42 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] ANN: aeve 0.0.4 Message-ID: <37EFADAE-1ACA-11D8-B7C4-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> I went ahead and put up aeve 0.0.4, this will (probably) be the last release before the Big Refactor. Here is what has changed off the top of my head: Using the Python 2.3 logging module, you'll have to turn it on to see the output though "import logging; logging.basicConfig()" Using applesingle.py from Python 2.4 CVS HEAD (Jack fixed it, the older version couldn't write res forks properly) Removed LGPL code (had code from twisted.python.failure in aeve.microfailure, this is no longer the case). Everything left is mine. Fixed missingTrackFinder example Started ripping it apart into more modules Other stuff has changed as well. This release may fix some bugs, but none of the important ones. This release is not heavily tested and should be considered development quality. http://undefined.org/python/#aeve -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031119/f4aed76f/smime-0001.bin From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Wed Nov 19 16:50:24 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Wed Nov 19 16:50:33 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 In-Reply-To: <13EC44F5-1AC0-11D8-B7C4-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <13EC44F5-1AC0-11D8-B7C4-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <618FB426-1ADA-11D8-8822-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> First, let me start by asking both of you to add docstrings to the code. I had a quick look through both aeve and AppScripting, and it's really hard to find your way around either of them.... > aeve does not ever use __getattr__ hacks and figure it out sometime > later. It does things the way that Python typically does things; > members are in the class __dict__, it uses normal Python class > inheritance mechanisms, etc. This I like, I think. It has the advantage that you should be able to use the standard Python introspection features on aeve objects, something I missed with I looked at AppScripting. There is a question of cost, though: I assume that this makes aeve startup more expensive than AppScripting startup, at least in theory. Right? > I would not say "much in the same way as gensuitemodule", it's *very* > different from how gensuitemodule works. Why is this? gensuitemodule determines what should be in the module and creates the sourcecode, aeve does the same but it dynamically creates the modules, classes and objects. I would think this is pretty similar. Note that I also particularly like this model (as opposed to doing everything at the last possible moment), because it leaves much more room for caching. And I think caching (of complete AETE interfaces) is where Python could gain points on AppleScript: if you want to do something really simple to an application then not having to read and parse the AETE could be a big win. -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From hengist.podd at virgin.net Wed Nov 19 17:29:26 2003 From: hengist.podd at virgin.net (has) Date: Wed Nov 19 18:03:19 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 In-Reply-To: <13EC44F5-1AC0-11D8-B7C4-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <13EC44F5-1AC0-11D8-B7C4-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: Bob wrote: >aeve does the following when you do aeve.talkto('something'): > (1) find the application using 'something' as an identifier >(by LaunchServices and several other means) > (2) If the application's interface is not already generated then: > (a) gets the aete(s) from the application (by several means) > (b) converts the aete(s) into python modules, >classes, objects (respecting inheritance, etc.). Throws them all in >a registry so they can be converted to/from AEDescs at the bridge. > (c) cache this interface > (3) instantiate and returns the application object mixed in >with a "talkto" class so that you can use it directly Well said. Much better than I could (did!) put it. >aeve does not ever use __getattr__ hacks and figure it out sometime later. Don't really think of __getattr__ as a hack; at least, no more so than using introspection on the fly in general. But maybe that's just me; I dunno. That said, it'd be just as easy to implement the AS interface in more traditional belt-n-braces fashion if __getattr__ made anyone nervy: textedit.element('document', 0).property('text').get() Not very attractive though. >It does things the way that Python typically does things; members >are in the class __dict__, it uses normal Python class inheritance >mechanisms, etc. [...] This way of doing things provides some >significant advantages (doc generation, introspection, etc.) over >what you're doing. Curious: what sort of uses might introspecting aeve's generated classes be put to? Yeah, being able to generate docs by shoving stuff through an existing tool like pydoc would be nice, but I don't expect implementing my own doc generator should take too long. To balance the advantages/disadvantages a bit: one of the nice things about AppScripting is that it does things the way that OSA does them - and OSA can do a few things that standard Python doesn't do. For example, to get the name of every file in a folder: folderRef.files.name.get() Or to set the size of the first character of every paragraph of a document to 24: docRef.paragraphs.characters[0].size.set(24) AppScripting gives you this behaviour for free, since all it's doing is mirroring OSA behaviour. >Complicated, I'll give you that, but that's my problem as the author >not yours as the end user. Well, for whoever has to maintain the library really. Dunno if you're hoping to get aeve into the standard MacPython distro or not, but this is certainly my desire for AS so KISS is a definite consideration for me. >I'm not exactly sure what you mean by labor intensive, For the machine that is, not the user. (Welcome to my wonderfully vague and fanciful way with words.;) >It can take a few seconds to get the aete from some applications >because it has to open a connection to WindowServer, but this only >happens once per run and it's probably possible to optimize this out >(since Apple Events don't actually need WindowServer, from what >Apple says). Yeah, I find it deeply ironic that a non-window-based UI should somehow require a window server. Be interested if this can be done. >I'd imagine that the actual runtime performance of aeve would be as >fast or faster than what you're doing, Not really a concern at this stage (premature optimisation = root of all evil, etc), though a quick test showed no obvious difference in object referencing and message sending performance. (Building the initial object model/accessor rules is quicker under AS than aeve, but like you say this isn't really here nor there in the big picture.) At any rate, I'd say that bottlenecks in application scripting tend to be in pushing lots of data through AppleEvents or in applications taking their sweet time to respond to messages (OS9's Finder was notorious for this), so I don't think either of us needs to be overly concerned with this. Cheers, has -- http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/ From hengist.podd at virgin.net Wed Nov 19 17:51:49 2003 From: hengist.podd at virgin.net (has) Date: Wed Nov 19 18:03:27 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 In-Reply-To: <2F425F99-1AC1-11D8-B7C4-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <82A7567D-1A7E-11D8-9FE1-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> <2F425F99-1AC1-11D8-B7C4-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: Bob wrote: >>Jack wrote: >> >>>[whose clauses] is more of a design problem, Python has no >>>language construct for this that we could use. But the bad news is >>>that I don't have an easy solution either:-( >> >>1. imagesRef = blah.blah.blah.whose(AS.is_in(AS.ref.name_extension, >>['gif', 'jpg', 'png'])) >> >>2. imagesRef = blah.blah.blah.whose('name_extension is in $', >>['gif', 'jpg', 'png']) >> >>3. imagesRef = blah.blah.blah.whose.name_extension.is_in(['gif', >>'jpg', 'png']) > >Yeah, this is the biggest reason why I haven't implemented >comparisons in aeve. I couldn't think of a non-ugly way to make the >application do it through the bridge so right now I use Python to >filter stuff (which can be much slower but more powerful and easier). Yeah, efficiency vs flexibility. Even when you do have filter references, you often still need to do it the manual way when the application doesn't support filtering or has a broken implementation (OS X Finder). Could be left to the user to use list comprehensions, or implemented as a method on objects that support filter references: blah.blah.blah.whose(lambda ref:ref.name_extension in ['gif', 'jpg', 'png']) One potential optimisation (as you might guess) is to grab the list of values you want to filter by separate to the list of references to be filtered, making the number of AppleEvents dispatched constant: set refsList to every item of folderRef set namesList to name of every item of folderRef set resultList to {} repeat with i from 1 to refsList's length if myTest(namesList's item i) then set resultList's end to refsList's item i end repeat With the 'whose' method you could probably implement this optimisation behind the scenes, taking a filtering function as parameter and grabbing and caching lists of attributes on an as-needed basis. Cheers, has -- http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/ From halloleo at myrealbox.com Thu Nov 20 01:17:02 2003 From: halloleo at myrealbox.com (leo) Date: Thu Nov 20 01:16:42 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 References: <82A7567D-1A7E-11D8-9FE1-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> <2F425F99-1AC1-11D8-B7C4-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <076b01c3af2d$ea7dd4d0$a800000a@Odyssey.local> hi bob i always read your mails beacuse i'm very interested in using aeve and i think it is a great tool. just one formal thing about your posts: all emails frome you appear very funny in my outlook client. they have no body, only two attachments: one text attachment and one that seems to be a certificat or so. this presenattion is quite inconvinient and happens with no others mails to me. any idea how to fix that? cheers, leo ps: i know, i know, this might be rated as off topic, because it's not about python on mac... From halloleo at myrealbox.com Thu Nov 20 01:18:48 2003 From: halloleo at myrealbox.com (leo) Date: Thu Nov 20 01:18:27 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] how to eject a volume through python Message-ID: <076c01c3af2e$29d076b0$a800000a@Odyssey.local> hi there how can i eject a volume through python? thanks, leo From bob at redivi.com Thu Nov 20 01:41:09 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Thu Nov 20 01:41:05 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] how to eject a volume through python In-Reply-To: <076c01c3af2e$29d076b0$a800000a@Odyssey.local> References: <076c01c3af2e$29d076b0$a800000a@Odyssey.local> Message-ID: <8696FB04-1B24-11D8-9760-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 20, 2003, at 1:18 AM, leo wrote: > how can i eject a volume through python? Well, I think the easiest way would be to use the diskutil command line utility via os.system or os.popen. Maybe PyObjC or finder via apple events also has access to do some of this stuff, but diskutil links to a bunch of private frameworks to do its dirty work. diskutil has a man page (type "man diskutil" sans quotes from the shell) if you need more information. -bob From bernu at lptl.jussieu.fr Thu Nov 20 03:47:43 2003 From: bernu at lptl.jussieu.fr (Bernard Bernu) Date: Thu Nov 20 03:46:09 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] aeve versus AppScripting versus AppleScript Message-ID: <349F1AF6-1B36-11D8-A412-00039392325C@lptl.jussieu.fr> Hi, I'm thinking of writing an interface for diagonalizing huge matrices. The whole memory will be used to store the matrix, vectors. No duplication is allowed. The work will be done in C/C++. The points I do not understand is : 1) who "should" own the data? 2) who can use the data WITHOUT doing copy of them? Which of AEVE/AppScripting/AppleScript do you think is the "best" to do such work? Sincerely, Bernard Bernu ________________________________________________________________________ _____ Bernard Bernu | Internet : bernu@lptl.jussieu.fr. Physique Th?orique des Liquides | http://www.lptl.jussieu.fr/users/bernu 4, place Jussieu, Tour 16, Et. 5 | Tel : (33) 01 44 27 72 38 Bo?te 121 | Fax : (33) 01 44 27 51 00 75252 Paris Cedex 05, France | From drewmccormack at mac.com Thu Nov 20 03:50:32 2003 From: drewmccormack at mac.com (Drew McCormack) Date: Thu Nov 20 03:51:15 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] how to eject a volume through python In-Reply-To: <076c01c3af2e$29d076b0$a800000a@Odyssey.local> References: <076c01c3af2e$29d076b0$a800000a@Odyssey.local> Message-ID: <99478036-1B36-11D8-B594-003065BD3BD8@mac.com> On the command line, you can do this: #!/bin/sh MOUNT_DIR=/Volumes/DiskToEject umount -f $MOUNT_DIR rm -r $MOUNT_DIR /usr/sbin/disktool -r # Refreshes disk status, so finder knows that disk is gone I guess you could just do the same in python with 'system'. I haven't tried it though. There is probably a better way to do it. Drew On Nov 20, 2003, at 7:18 AM, leo wrote: > hi there > > how can i eject a volume through python? > > thanks, leo > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig From njriley at uiuc.edu Thu Nov 20 12:26:24 2003 From: njriley at uiuc.edu (Nicholas Riley) Date: Thu Nov 20 12:26:36 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] how to eject a volume through python In-Reply-To: <99478036-1B36-11D8-B594-003065BD3BD8@mac.com> References: <076c01c3af2e$29d076b0$a800000a@Odyssey.local> <99478036-1B36-11D8-B594-003065BD3BD8@mac.com> Message-ID: <20031120172624.GA29193@uiuc.edu> On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 09:50:32AM +0100, Drew McCormack wrote: > On the command line, you can do this: > > #!/bin/sh > MOUNT_DIR=/Volumes/DiskToEject > umount -f $MOUNT_DIR > rm -r $MOUNT_DIR This is a really bad idea; umount -f is still not guaranteed to succeed, and you could send up wiping out the contents of your disk. > /usr/sbin/disktool -r # Refreshes disk status, so finder knows that > disk is gone Just use disktool to eject the disk (or preferably diskutil, which is a lot nicer to use). -- =Nicholas Riley | From oussoren at cistron.nl Thu Nov 20 14:48:23 2003 From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Thu Nov 20 15:00:44 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] how to eject a volume through python In-Reply-To: <8696FB04-1B24-11D8-9760-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <076c01c3af2e$29d076b0$a800000a@Odyssey.local> <8696FB04-1B24-11D8-9760-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <802EA034-1B92-11D8-A5EB-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl> On 20 nov 2003, at 7:41, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Nov 20, 2003, at 1:18 AM, leo wrote: > >> how can i eject a volume through python? > > Well, I think the easiest way would be to use the diskutil command > line utility via os.system or os.popen. Maybe PyObjC or finder via > apple events also has access to do some of this stuff, but diskutil > links to a bunch of private frameworks to do its dirty work. You can do this with PyObjC: NSWorkSpace.unmountAndEjectDeviceAtPath_(path) - (BOOL)unmountAndEjectDeviceAtPath:(NSString *)path Unmounts and ejects the device at path. Returns YES if the unmount operation succeeded, NO otherwise. When this method begins, it posts an NSWorkspaceWillUnmountNotification to NSWorkspace?s notification center. When it is finished, it posts an NSWorkspaceDidUnmountNotification. Ronald From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov Thu Nov 20 18:54:35 2003 From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Chris Barker) Date: Thu Nov 20 18:54:44 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] How do I set type and creator? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wednesday, November 19, 2003, at 12:39 AM, Just van Rossum wrote: > Actually, the best and easiest way is through MacOS.GetCreatorAndType() > and MacOS.SetCreatorAndType(). Thanks, Just, that's exactly what I was looking for. I should've looked harder in the docs... -Chris Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT (206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception Chris.Barker@noaa.gov From hengist.podd at virgin.net Thu Nov 20 19:02:23 2003 From: hengist.podd at virgin.net (has) Date: Thu Nov 20 19:02:10 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re. [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 Message-ID: Jack wrote: >First, let me start by asking both of you to add docstrings to the >code. I had a quick look through both aeve and AppScripting, and it's >really hard to find your way around either of them.... On the to-do list.:) For my education, is it normal practice to put docstrings on everything - both private and public - or just on the public stuff? I've rather assumed that docstrings are supplied for the benefit of end users, rather than developers who can read comments as easily. (e.g. In HTMLTemplate I left out docstrings and supplied separate user documentation which explains its use based on a simpler, fictionalised object model. The internal structure is actually much more complicated and not entirely conventional, so docstringing it would likely cause more confusion than anything. Thinking of doing the same with AS.) > > aeve [...] does things the way that Python typically does things; > >This I like, I think. It has the advantage that you should be able to >use the standard Python introspection features on aeve objects, >something I missed with I looked at AppScripting. I'm still curious here about how introspection is being used, and to what purpose? Anyone shed some light for me? I suspect introspecting AS wouldn't do you much good anyway; better to read the docs to learn what's going on. Though knowing what you're looking for'd give me a better idea. >There is a question >of cost, though: I assume that this makes aeve startup more expensive >than AppScripting startup, at least in theory. Right? Yes, but as Bob points out, this can easily be made a one-off charge by caching and reusing the result over the length of the runtime, so is pretty much irrelevant. >Note that I also particularly like this model (as opposed to doing >everything at the last possible moment), because it leaves much more >room for caching. Caching's only worth doing when it actually makes a difference to performance. With aeve and AS any performance bottleneck lies at the aete parsing stage so is not too critical. Neither module suffers any performance problems in object referencing/event dispatching since that code is already well streamlined. >And I think caching (of complete AETE interfaces) is >where Python could gain points on AppleScript: AppleScript does all its binding at compile-time, so doesn't suffer a runtime penalty from parsing terminology as aeve and AppScripting do. >if you want to do something really simple to an application then not >having to read and >parse the AETE could be a big win. As Bob said, right now the most painful bottleneck is in having to go through Window Manager whenever you want to send AppleEvents. Boshing that would be the most worthwhile optimisation. If reading aetes at each runtime still proves too slow for users, we could always pickle the parsed aete resources for reuse over subsequent sessions. The only times you'd then need to (re-)parse the aete is when a pre-parsed aete doesn't already exist for the app being used, or a different version of that app has been installed since its aete was last parsed and cached. I'm sure this could be automated too. HTH, has -- http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/ From oussoren at cistron.nl Fri Nov 21 01:16:29 2003 From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Fri Nov 21 01:16:31 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re. [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E657D72-1BEA-11D8-A5EB-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl> On 21 nov 2003, at 1:02, has wrote: > Jack wrote: >> >> >> This I like, I think. It has the advantage that you should be able to >> use the standard Python introspection features on aeve objects, >> something I missed with I looked at AppScripting. > > I'm still curious here about how introspection is being used, and to > what purpose? Anyone shed some light for me? I suspect introspecting > AS wouldn't do you much good anyway; better to read the docs to learn > what's going on. Though knowing what you're looking for'd give me a > better idea. Introspection would be usefull in an IDE-style environment (class-browser, completion). The IDE could be taught about how to fetch the necessary information for applescript interfaces, but using the usual introspection features is much more convenient. Ronald From bernu at lptl.jussieu.fr Fri Nov 21 04:25:00 2003 From: bernu at lptl.jussieu.fr (Bernard Bernu) Date: Fri Nov 21 04:23:38 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] aeve versus AppScripting versus AppleScript In-Reply-To: <3FBD1074.E7FE733A@noaa.gov> Message-ID: <946A7DAE-1C04-11D8-A412-00039392325C@lptl.jussieu.fr> Chris, Thanks for your reply. I apologize : I should have read first the doc you mentioned. I agree with you that this sounds a standard C extension problem. Now for debugging and analyzing data I'd like to do lots of curves, 3d plots, ... I'm using Smile (an AppleScript app) that works perfectly. ( http://www.satimage.fr/software/en/index.html ) So I'd like to communicate between AppleScript and Python. But I'm very new in AppleScript and I could not see which of aeve or AppScripting would be the best for that. Mainly, I want to take numbers, vectors of numbers and matrices from the application and make graphic analysis in Smile. Le jeudi, 20 nov 2003, ? 20:05 Europe/Paris, Chris Barker a ?crit : Bernard > Bernard Bernu wrote: >> I'm thinking of writing an interface for diagonalizing huge matrices. >> The whole memory will be used to store the matrix, vectors. No >> duplication is allowed. >> The work will be done in C/C++. >> The points I do not understand is : >> 1) who "should" own the data? >> 2) who can use the data WITHOUT doing copy of them? > > Why would you want to use any of the above options for this? This > sounds > like a standard C extention problem. I would check out Numeric or > Numarray (one the old and one the new version of NumPy). A NumPy array > would be a good way to store your data in Python, and that data can be > manipulated in a C extension without copying. That is if NumPy does not > already do what you want. I already use numarray and this is great. > > http://www.pfdubois.com/numpy/ > > and for the basics of writing a C exension: > > http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/ext.html > > -Chris > > > > -- > Christopher Barker, Ph.D. > Oceanographer > > NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT (206) 526-6959 voice > 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax > Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception > > Chris.Barker@noaa.gov > ________________________________________________________________________ _____ Bernard Bernu | Internet : bernu@lptl.jussieu.fr. Physique Th?orique des Liquides | http://www.lptl.jussieu.fr/users/bernu 4, place Jussieu, Tour 16, Et. 5 | Tel : (33) 01 44 27 72 38 Bo?te 121 | Fax : (33) 01 44 27 51 00 75252 Paris Cedex 05, France | From Benjamin.Schollnick at usa.xerox.com Fri Nov 21 09:20:11 2003 From: Benjamin.Schollnick at usa.xerox.com (Schollnick, Benjamin) Date: Fri Nov 21 09:21:15 2003 Subject: Docstringing (was RE: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re. [ann] AppScripting 0.1. 0) Message-ID: <51B62EFFBC83D6118ADA00096BB030A107CADC86@usamcms7.mc.usa.xerox.com> > On the to-do list.:) For my education, is it normal practice to put > docstrings on everything - both private and public - or just on the > public stuff? I've rather assumed that docstrings are supplied for > the benefit of end users, rather than developers who can read > comments as easily. Honestly, in my opinion, I Docstring everything... But that is more for my benefit, than anyone elses. This way when I come back later, even the private areas are documented. I just make sure to mark the "Low Level areas", as such. With note saying that they should only be called by other routines.... I didn't think about this, but since we're on the topic. Do other people use a Common Docstring template? I have not seen any good Docstring references, but I must admit, I have not reread the Python's Documentation on Documentation in a long while.... I generally attempt to include the following in my DocStrings... 1) General description 2) Input list 3) Output List 4) Example, with as much detail as reasonable. (optional) Additional notes For example: 1) """ Wrapper around the reg_interface module. Adds support for multiple HKEY sources, and reads the different data types from the remote registry. Inputs - reg_interface - Registry Interface Object hkey - The HKEY to be searched (i.e. Hkey_local_machine) HKCU - Hkey_Current_User HKLM - Hkey Local Machine keystring - The full key path to the keyname element keyname - The name of the element to be retrieved. data_type - The data type of the registry element/keyname. Defaults to "S" (String) D == Dword Outputs - x, reg_value x - Unknown reg_value - The values of the Registry Entry Example: a = win32com.client.Dispatch ("WbemScripting.SWbemLocator") b = a.ConnectServer ( hostname, "root/default", username, password) b.Security_.ImpersonationLevel = 3 c = wmi._wmi_object (b.Get ("StdRegProv")) x, reg_value = peek_registry (c, hkey, reg_path, reg_subkey, reg_type) """ 2) def return_ds_user_password (self): """Return the current setting for User Password. Input: None Output: String containing the current User Password. Empty String ("") returned for empty password. ("" is the default startup value) Example: % print ts_ds_server.return_ds_user_password () % ts_ds_server.set_ds_user_name ("tmasaki") % ts_ds_server.set_ds_user_password ("ryoko") % print ts_ds_server.return_ds_user_name() tmasaki % print ts_ds_server.return_ds_user_password () ryoko """ From drewmccormack at mac.com Fri Nov 21 10:00:13 2003 From: drewmccormack at mac.com (Drew McCormack) Date: Fri Nov 21 10:01:00 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Installing pygsl Message-ID: <68C59381-1C33-11D8-ADED-003065BD3BD8@mac.com> I am trying to install pygsl on 10.3.1, but quickly run into problems. Here is what I get: cormack terbium: sudo python setup.py --gsl-prefix=/usr/local build running build running build_py running build_ext building '__callback' extension gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-long-double -no-cpp-precomp -mno-fused-madd -fno-common -dynamic -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -DNUMERIC=1 -DPYGSL_GSL_MAJOR_VERSION=1 -DPYGSL_GSL_MINOR_VERSION=4 -I/usr/local/include -Isrc/callback -I. -I/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/include/ python2.3 -c swig_src/callback_wrap.c -o build/temp.darwin-7.0.0-Power_Macintosh-2.3/swig_src/callback_wrap.o In file included from typemaps/gsl_function_helpers.ic:26, from swig_src/callback_wrap.c:702: typemaps/gsl_block_helpers.ic:15:20: malloc.h: No such file or directory typemaps/gsl_block_helpers.ic:17:33: Numeric/arrayobject.h: No such file or directory Apparently it can't find malloc.h or the Numeric header file arrayobject.h. Anyone know why this might be? Is there an environment variable I need to set? I would have thought the standard version of python in panther would know where Numeric was installed (yes, I did install the source code as well as the binaries). Drew From hengist.podd at virgin.net Fri Nov 21 14:03:47 2003 From: hengist.podd at virgin.net (has) Date: Fri Nov 21 14:06:51 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re. [ann] AppScripting 0.1.0 In-Reply-To: <3E657D72-1BEA-11D8-A5EB-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl> References: <3E657D72-1BEA-11D8-A5EB-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl> Message-ID: Ronald wrote: >>I'm still curious here about how introspection is being used, and >>to what purpose? Anyone shed some light for me? I suspect >>introspecting AS wouldn't do you much good anyway; better to read >>the docs to learn what's going on. Though knowing what you're >>looking for'd give me a better idea. > >Introspection would be usefull in an IDE-style environment >(class-browser, completion). So the issue is development rather than runtime related, yes? Thoughts: It'll be straightforward to write an ApplicationObjectModelBrowser module that lets users explore a live application's object model interactively - travelling up and down the object tree, viewing elements and properties as they go. Also a DictionaryObjectModelBrowser that lets users browse a 'generic' object model that's constructed on-the-fly according to the containment rules given in the aete. (This is what you'd need to support autocompletion, btw, as it'll let you construct references to application objects that don't exist yet.) Implementing this stuff on top of AppScripting rather than baking it in will let me keep AS focussed on fully and accurately modelling the OSA interface, which is the most important bit. (With respect to Bob, the impression I have from previous conversations is that he's less interested in supporting OSA features than in creating something that behaves strictly by familiar, standard Python rules - even if it means losing OSA functionality as a result.) >The IDE could be taught about how to fetch the necessary information >for applescript interfaces, but using the usual introspection >features is much more convenient. Would it be possible to spoof an IDE's class browser by overriding stuff like __dict__ with your own accessors? If I could provide these sorts of developer tools through existing class browsers instead of a custom GUI app it'd save me a fair bit of work, as well as let users do everything in their editors of choice - which'd be cool. Thoughts? Thanks, has -- http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/ From hengist.podd at virgin.net Sat Nov 22 05:30:55 2003 From: hengist.podd at virgin.net (has) Date: Sat Nov 22 10:12:51 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Message-ID: Bernard wrote: >Mainly, I want to take numbers, vectors of numbers and >matrices from the application and make graphic analysis >in Smile. Why not have your C/C++ application send AppleEvents directly to Smile? This'd be simplest. has -- http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/ From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Mon Nov 24 17:47:14 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Mon Nov 24 17:48:31 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Installing pygsl In-Reply-To: <68C59381-1C33-11D8-ADED-003065BD3BD8@mac.com> References: <68C59381-1C33-11D8-ADED-003065BD3BD8@mac.com> Message-ID: <260A1FA8-1ED0-11D8-9B53-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> On 21-nov-03, at 16:00, Drew McCormack wrote: > Apparently it can't find malloc.h or the Numeric header file > arrayobject.h. Anyone know why this might be? Is there an environment > variable I need to set? I would have thought the standard version of > python in panther would know where Numeric was installed (yes, I did > install the source code as well as the binaries). Malloc.h could be seen as a bug in pygsl: it's a non-standard header, you should include stdlib.h. The Numeric problem is more subtle: The standard Python file layout doesn't cater for the fact that its include directory is non-writable by mere sysadmins. Apple worked around this for site-packages by making it a symlink into /Library/Python/2.3, but a similar workaround wasn't done for the Python include and bin directories (where the workaround would also have been more difficult). A workaround that is theoretically a bad idea (but in practice works:-) is to make /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/include/ python2.3 writable to yourself. -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From itamar at itamarst.org Wed Nov 26 19:25:35 2003 From: itamar at itamarst.org (Itamar Shtull-Trauring) Date: Wed Nov 26 19:40:35 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problems with bundlebuilder Message-ID: I'm packaging an app with bundlebuilder. Works fine on my computer, but on my client's it's failing - all Console says is that it exited with error 22, no traceback, nothing. He has MacPython installed, and I built the bundle with semi_standalone. Any ideas? -- Itamar Shtull-Trauring http://itamarst.org/ Available for Python & Twisted consulting From speno at isc.upenn.edu Wed Nov 26 20:15:27 2003 From: speno at isc.upenn.edu (John P Speno) Date: Wed Nov 26 20:15:33 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problems with bundlebuilder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031127011527.GA2342@isc.upenn.edu> On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 07:25:35PM -0500, Itamar Shtull-Trauring wrote: > I'm packaging an app with bundlebuilder. Works fine on my computer, but on > my client's it's failing - all Console says is that it exited with error > 22, no traceback, nothing. He has MacPython installed, and I built the > bundle with semi_standalone. Any ideas? I like to start the app from a shell and hope for some kind of error message there. Something like: % cd Yourapp.app/Contents % MacOS/Yourapp From oussoren at cistron.nl Thu Nov 27 01:41:17 2003 From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Thu Nov 27 01:41:12 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problems with bundlebuilder In-Reply-To: <20031127011527.GA2342@isc.upenn.edu> References: <20031127011527.GA2342@isc.upenn.edu> Message-ID: On 27 nov 2003, at 2:15, John P Speno wrote: > On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 07:25:35PM -0500, Itamar Shtull-Trauring wrote: >> I'm packaging an app with bundlebuilder. Works fine on my computer, >> but on >> my client's it's failing - all Console says is that it exited with >> error >> 22, no traceback, nothing. He has MacPython installed, and I built the >> bundle with semi_standalone. Any ideas? > > I like to start the app from a shell and hope for some kind of error > message there. > > Something like: > > % cd Yourapp.app/Contents > % MacOS/Yourapp $PWD/MacOS/Yourapp should work. MacOS X is very picky about the path you use to start GUI binaries, that must be an absolute path. Was the application built on the same major OSX release as it should run on? semi-standalone applications built on 10.2 don't work on 10.3 and v.v. And simularly you should install the full MacPython distribution on 10.2 and the MacPython additions on 10.3, the full MacPython distribution causes problems on 10.3. Ronald From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Thu Nov 27 17:39:24 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Thu Nov 27 17:39:28 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can we solve the "two Pythons on 10.3" problem? Message-ID: <8CBF1D46-212A-11D8-AAFD-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Folks, with Python 2.3.3 drawing near I wonder whether we can solve the problem that having two MacPythons on 10.3 (Apple-installed 2.3 in /System and user-installed 2.3.3 in /Library) causes all sorts of problems with extension modules being used with the wrong Python. I'd like to take inventory of the problems, and the possible solutions. Please fire away, both with problems I've missed and with solutions. Here are some of the problems I'm aware of: Problem 1. PackMan uses the same database for both Pythons. Solution 1a. Use a different database URL template for 2.3.3. Solution 1b. Make a unified database. This has the disadvantage that with the current pimp the database will become ugly (two versions of every package will be listed) but this is solvable with a new pimp version that conditionally hides packages. Still, much more work than 1a. Problem 2. Users copy extension modules from one Python to the other. Solution 2. Document clearly, and in many places, that you should not do this. Problem 3. ~/Library/Python/2.3/site-packages is shared between the Pythons. This is the one I don't really have a solution for that I like, so fire away. Solution 3a. For 2.3.3 we use a different path. Don't like this because it'll also reflect on Jaguar users upgrading (who suddenly lose their personally installed packages). Solution 3b. We recognize that this is really a general problem, and warn in Package Manager when you're installing extension modules into the per-user directory. Problem 4? I haven't tested yet what happens when 2.3.3 installs a different Apple Help Book from the standard one. I hope the new one overrides the old one, but I'm not sure. If in stead the old one overrides the new one we have no way of using the Help Book to give information on the issues above. -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From bob at redivi.com Thu Nov 27 17:58:44 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Thu Nov 27 17:58:25 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can we solve the "two Pythons on 10.3" problem? In-Reply-To: <8CBF1D46-212A-11D8-AAFD-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> References: <8CBF1D46-212A-11D8-AAFD-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <409C212A-212D-11D8-ACC9-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 27, 2003, at 5:39 PM, Jack Jansen wrote: > Folks, > with Python 2.3.3 drawing near I wonder whether we can solve the > problem > that having two MacPythons on 10.3 (Apple-installed 2.3 in /System > and user-installed 2.3.3 in /Library) causes all sorts of problems > with extension modules being used with the wrong Python. > > I'd like to take inventory of the problems, and the possible solutions. > Please fire away, both with problems I've missed and with solutions. > > Here are some of the problems I'm aware of: > Problem 1. PackMan uses the same database for both Pythons. > Solution 1a. Use a different database URL template for 2.3.3. This one gets my vote because it's easiest. I think I'll be spending my time with Apple's 2.3.0, none of the 2.3.0 bugs have really bit me (other than datetime being horrifyingly slow). > Solution 1b. Make a unified database. This has the disadvantage that > with > the current pimp the database will become ugly (two versions of every > package > will be listed) but this is solvable with a new pimp version that > conditionally > hides packages. Still, much more work than 1a. Solution 1c. Make a new version of pimp that integrates with macholib and can relocate the mach-o headers of installed bundles (python extension modules) appropriately. macholib is just about ready for prime time, I have it integrated with bundlebuilder, but have not done extensive testing. Expect to see something from me Sunday or Monday (not PIMP integration, but something cleaned up and tested). > Problem 2. Users copy extension modules from one Python to the other. > Solution 2. Document clearly, and in many places, that you should not > do > this. Solution 2c. Provide a command line tool or droplet that will use macholib to relocate all the .so's in a package and copy them to the right place? > Problem 3. ~/Library/Python/2.3/site-packages is shared between the > Pythons. This > is the one I don't really have a solution for that I like, so fire > away. > Solution 3a. For 2.3.3 we use a different path. Don't like this > because it'll > also reflect on Jaguar users upgrading (who suddenly lose their > personally installed > packages). > Solution 3b. We recognize that this is really a general problem, and > warn > in Package Manager when you're installing extension modules into the > per-user > directory. Also /Library/Python/2.3 has this same problem, does it not? > Problem 4? I haven't tested yet what happens when 2.3.3 installs a > different Apple Help Book from the standard one. I hope the new one > overrides > the old one, but I'm not sure. If in stead the old one overrides the > new one we have no way of using the Help Book to give information on > the > issues above. I should try using the python help book some day.. I've never really liked help book, though. Problem 5. Being an app developer sucks if you want to support Jaguar, but want to run Panther. Someone needs to really sit down and figure out how to "chroot" a Jaguar version of MacPython, and convince distutils to use 10.2 as a deployment target and link against all the stuff in /Developer/SDKs/. Does this have to be me, or is someone else willing to try their hand at this? -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031127/b6275142/smime.bin From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Thu Nov 27 18:56:46 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Thu Nov 27 18:56:50 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can we solve the "two Pythons on 10.3" problem? In-Reply-To: <8CBF1D46-212A-11D8-AAFD-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> References: <8CBF1D46-212A-11D8-AAFD-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <5BD68368-2135-11D8-AAFD-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> On 27-nov-03, at 23:39, Jack Jansen wrote: > Problem 4? I haven't tested yet what happens when 2.3.3 installs a > different Apple Help Book from the standard one. I hope the new one > overrides > the old one, but I'm not sure. If in stead the old one overrides the > new one we have no way of using the Help Book to give information on > the > issues above. Just tried it, and this problem indeed exists: the new Help Book is ignored and the old one continues to be used. Solution 4a: Change the name of the help book. I don't like this, so other solutions are welcome. Can Help Books be upgraded? -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Fri Nov 28 04:47:50 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Fri Nov 28 04:47:26 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building on Panther for Jaguar deployment In-Reply-To: <409C212A-212D-11D8-ACC9-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <8CBF1D46-212A-11D8-AAFD-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> <409C212A-212D-11D8-ACC9-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: [I'm changing the subject so this discussion won't pollute the other thread too much] On 27 Nov 2003, at 23:58, Bob Ippolito wrote: > Problem 5. Being an app developer sucks if you want to support > Jaguar, but want to run Panther. Someone needs to really sit down and > figure out how to "chroot" a Jaguar version of MacPython, and convince > distutils to use 10.2 as a deployment target and link against all the > stuff in /Developer/SDKs/. Does this have to be me, or is someone > else willing to try their hand at this? Isn't it good enough to just install Jaguar MacPython, set the MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET environment variable and use /usr/local/bin/python to run your setup.py scripts? As a sideline, there's a feature request plus patch for enabling cross-compilation (www.python.org/sf/848910) that may or may not be of interest to this. -- Jack Jansen http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From stuart at stuartbishop.net Fri Nov 28 06:27:59 2003 From: stuart at stuartbishop.net (Stuart Bishop) Date: Fri Nov 28 06:28:31 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can we solve the "two Pythons on 10.3" problem? In-Reply-To: <8CBF1D46-212A-11D8-AAFD-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> References: <8CBF1D46-212A-11D8-AAFD-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 28/11/2003, at 9:39 AM, Jack Jansen wrote: > Folks, > with Python 2.3.3 drawing near I wonder whether we can solve the > problem > that having two MacPythons on 10.3 (Apple-installed 2.3 in /System > and user-installed 2.3.3 in /Library) causes all sorts of problems > with extension modules being used with the wrong Python. Solution for all problems... Apple rolls out Python updates with their other patches. I assume *somebody* asked, and it isn't going to happen for resource, cultural or political reasons? - -- Stuart Bishop http://www.stuartbishop.net/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (Darwin) iD8DBQE/xzFEAfqZj7rGN0oRArhpAJ9qpVWUueR0JxdR1gdX+0f1Wu6WWACeP6xO l8YER/zf7/j2mWDp73464sc= =DTQo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Fri Nov 28 07:24:36 2003 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Fri Nov 28 07:24:15 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can we solve the "two Pythons on 10.3" problem? In-Reply-To: References: <8CBF1D46-212A-11D8-AAFD-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: On 28 Nov 2003, at 12:27, Stuart Bishop wrote: > Solution for all problems... Apple rolls out Python updates with their > other patches. I assume *somebody* asked, and it isn't going to happen > for resource, cultural or political reasons? I don't think I ever officially asked. But I would be surprised if they'd be willing to do this: major releases go through this whole long beta cycle which patches don't get. And they seem to be pretty conservative about what goes into patches even for their own software: new goodies like iSync and Safari were officially "beta" for a really long time even though a large part of the community were already using them for everyday work. -- Jack Jansen http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From bob at redivi.com Fri Nov 28 08:53:41 2003 From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito) Date: Fri Nov 28 08:53:22 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building on Panther for Jaguar deployment In-Reply-To: References: <8CBF1D46-212A-11D8-AAFD-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> <409C212A-212D-11D8-ACC9-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <469C3A30-21AA-11D8-9B8C-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Nov 28, 2003, at 4:47 AM, Jack Jansen wrote: > [I'm changing the subject so this discussion won't pollute the other > thread too much] > On 27 Nov 2003, at 23:58, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> Problem 5. Being an app developer sucks if you want to support >> Jaguar, but want to run Panther. Someone needs to really sit down >> and figure out how to "chroot" a Jaguar version of MacPython, and >> convince distutils to use 10.2 as a deployment target and link >> against all the stuff in /Developer/SDKs/. Does this have to be me, >> or is someone else willing to try their hand at this? > > Isn't it good enough to just install Jaguar MacPython, set the > MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET environment variable and use > /usr/local/bin/python to run your setup.py scripts? I doubt that, have you tried it? Have you tried it with PyObjC (which has 10.3 specific features)? -bob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031128/ca8cb0b7/smime.bin From oussoren at cistron.nl Fri Nov 28 11:14:38 2003 From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Fri Nov 28 11:14:30 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Building on Panther for Jaguar deployment In-Reply-To: <469C3A30-21AA-11D8-9B8C-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <8CBF1D46-212A-11D8-AAFD-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> <409C212A-212D-11D8-ACC9-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> <469C3A30-21AA-11D8-9B8C-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: On 28 nov 2003, at 14:53, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Nov 28, 2003, at 4:47 AM, Jack Jansen wrote: > >> [I'm changing the subject so this discussion won't pollute the other >> thread too much] >> On 27 Nov 2003, at 23:58, Bob Ippolito wrote: >> >>> Problem 5. Being an app developer sucks if you want to support >>> Jaguar, but want to run Panther. Someone needs to really sit down >>> and figure out how to "chroot" a Jaguar version of MacPython, and >>> convince distutils to use 10.2 as a deployment target and link >>> against all the stuff in /Developer/SDKs/. Does this have to be me, >>> or is someone else willing to try their hand at this? >> >> Isn't it good enough to just install Jaguar MacPython, set the >> MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET environment variable and use >> /usr/local/bin/python to run your setup.py scripts? > > I doubt that, have you tried it? Have you tried it with PyObjC (which > has 10.3 specific features)? It will definitly not work with PyObjC, the scripts that generate wrappers for static items (global functions, constants) are pretty stupid and don't recognize the #if guards for new features (e.g. even if you manage to get a compiler that generates 10.2 libraries the compilation will fail because the generated wrappers refer to 10.3 specific features). The core module should be fine, it contains #if guards for 10.3 specific features. Ronald > > -bob_______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig From stuart.b at commonground.com.au Sat Nov 29 01:10:22 2003 From: stuart.b at commonground.com.au (Stuart Bishop) Date: Sat Nov 29 01:10:53 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can we solve the "two Pythons on 10.3" problem? In-Reply-To: References: <8CBF1D46-212A-11D8-AAFD-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 28/11/2003, at 10:27 PM, Stuart Bishop wrote: > On 28/11/2003, at 9:39 AM, Jack Jansen wrote: > >> Folks, >> with Python 2.3.3 drawing near I wonder whether we can solve the >> problem >> that having two MacPythons on 10.3 (Apple-installed 2.3 in /System >> and user-installed 2.3.3 in /Library) causes all sorts of problems >> with extension modules being used with the wrong Python. > > Solution for all problems... Apple rolls out Python updates with their > other patches. I assume *somebody* asked, and it isn't going to happen > for resource, cultural or political reasons? I suppose the closest parallel I see is Java, and Apple are probably bound by license to provide updates within a given timeframe. Too late now for 10.3, but I wonder if it would be helpful or self defeating to get a clause added to the Python license requiring vendors to issue updates? Both Redhat & Apple have caused pain, Redhat by continuing shipping *just* 1.5.2 well after the rest of the world were writing 2.0+ only applications, and Apple by not updating their Python 2.0 despite it being crippled for all but basic scripts or applications carefully crafted to avoid the bugs. Although, to be fair, I believe the gains in both cases far outweighed the pain so I'm not suggesting taking our ball and going home. Assuming we don't have the clout to push around one of the worlds premier IT companies, I think it would be worth someone with the relevant contacts at Apple passing on a letter from Guido & Jack, informing them that a bug fix release is due for release before the end of December, a list of fixes, possibly a copy of the 'what goes into bug fix releases' guidelines, and a polite offer from the PSF to attempt to provide any resources Apple requests in patching the release in Panther, and press releases stressing how wonderful Apple is in playing nicely with the open source community and how much we love them, their vision, and above all the lovely toys they sell us at extremely reasonable prices. If they bite, it might take 6 months for the beta testers to not notice anything and the next OSX patch release to ship, but better late than never ;-) After 2.3.3 is released, would bug reports to Apple about Python bugs you can trigger be a help or a hinderance? - -- Stuart Bishop http://www.stuartbishop.net/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (Darwin) iD8DBQE/yDhSAfqZj7rGN0oRAnxoAJ9a5d+pSWoBBoB3xBWbA9y9cZgzRgCfbahG dYgRwg+QqtF/XEW6NqELgAM= =Ipt8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stuart.b at commonground.com.au Sat Nov 29 01:21:05 2003 From: stuart.b at commonground.com.au (Stuart Bishop) Date: Sat Nov 29 01:21:29 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can we solve the "two Pythons on 10.3" problem? In-Reply-To: <8CBF1D46-212A-11D8-AAFD-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> References: <8CBF1D46-212A-11D8-AAFD-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <3688D61A-2234-11D8-BBDC-000A95A06FC6@commonground.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 28/11/2003, at 9:39 AM, Jack Jansen wrote: > Problem 3. ~/Library/Python/2.3/site-packages is shared between the > Pythons. This > is the one I don't really have a solution for that I like, so fire > away. > Solution 3a. For 2.3.3 we use a different path. Don't like this > because it'll > also reflect on Jaguar users upgrading (who suddenly lose their > personally installed > packages). > Solution 3b. We recognize that this is really a general problem, and > warn > in Package Manager when you're installing extension modules into the > per-user > directory. Is this a problem? Bummer. I always thought the reason the patch release number wasn't included in the path was that this didn't matter, so I'll assume this is due to strange linker issues I avoid by refusing to write any code that needs to be compiled :-) If 2.3.3 runs modules from 2.3.0, but not vice versa, it would be possible to add both ~/Library/Python/2.3.x/site-packages *and* ~/Library/Python/2.3/site-packages to the python path, in decending order. So a module installed using Python 2.3.0 would be available to Python 2.3.3. There might be some user confusion when a package installed with 2.3.0 is upgraded with 2.3.3 , but the net gain might be positive. > Problem 4? I haven't tested yet what happens when 2.3.3 installs a > different Apple Help Book from the standard one. I hope the new one > overrides > the old one, but I'm not sure. If in stead the old one overrides the > new one we have no way of using the Help Book to give information on > the > issues above. I'm probably totally misunderstanding this area, but I did notice that the Python documentation never appeared in the help viewers Library menu until after it had been launched the first time (so it may simply be a case of installing the new help files, and then telling the Help View to open then from this new path). - -- Stuart Bishop http://www.stuartbishop.net/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (Darwin) iD8DBQE/yDrRAfqZj7rGN0oRAms1AJ9IgBn8YGSsX14NgVTJxeBzlFDvYACglgKv ynDQ213N4+Fb2kjbsY3lgkw= =ceBy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From oussoren at cistron.nl Sat Nov 29 02:00:57 2003 From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Sat Nov 29 02:00:48 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Can we solve the "two Pythons on 10.3" problem? In-Reply-To: <3688D61A-2234-11D8-BBDC-000A95A06FC6@commonground.com.au> References: <8CBF1D46-212A-11D8-AAFD-000A27B19B96@cwi.nl> <3688D61A-2234-11D8-BBDC-000A95A06FC6@commonground.com.au> Message-ID: On 29 nov 2003, at 7:21, Stuart Bishop wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > On 28/11/2003, at 9:39 AM, Jack Jansen wrote: > > >> Problem 3. ~/Library/Python/2.3/site-packages is shared between the >> Pythons. This >> is the one I don't really have a solution for that I like, so fire >> away. >> Solution 3a. For 2.3.3 we use a different path. Don't like this >> because it'll >> also reflect on Jaguar users upgrading (who suddenly lose their >> personally installed >> packages). >> Solution 3b. We recognize that this is really a general problem, and >> warn >> in Package Manager when you're installing extension modules into the >> per-user >> directory. > > Is this a problem? Bummer. I always thought the reason the patch > release > number wasn't included in the path was that this didn't matter, so I'll > assume this is due to strange linker issues I avoid by refusing to > write > any code that needs to be compiled :-) The problem is with extension modules, and has nothing to do with Python version and everything with the location of the Python framework. IIRC the problem is that extension modules contain the full path to the framework that they were linked against and if you load the module in a different python this will get the "built-against" framework loaded as well which causes havoc. E.g. say you have MacPython for Jaguar installed in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework and copy 'foo.so' that was built for this version of Python into /Library/Python/2.3. When you start /usr/bin/python it will load an initialize /System/Library/Fr.../Python.framework. If you then 'import foo' it wil load 'foo.so', the dynamic linker sees that 'foo.so' is linked agains /L/F/Python.framework and will load that and resolve all Py* symbols from that framework. Foo.so's initfoo function is called, that calls some Python API function which bails out immediately because /L/F/Python.framework was never initialized. Ronald From smithsm at samuelsmith.org Sat Nov 29 13:21:03 2003 From: smithsm at samuelsmith.org (Samuel M. Smith) Date: Sat Nov 29 13:21:16 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] package manager breaks mac help In-Reply-To: <72590B62-0E16-11D8-A2A3-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> References: <72590B62-0E16-11D8-A2A3-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> Message-ID: I have Panther 10.3.1. I just installed the macpython additions MacPython-Panther-2.3.2. I used package manager from the IDE to install several packages. One of the packages was the documentation 2.3 binary. After I was done I tried to access Mac Help from the finder. It crashes. A window opens for a couple of seconds and then disappears? I reboot etc. but mac help from the finder is now broken. Help will work for given application but not the finder. Help! How do I uninstall the documentation package or a given package in general? The documentation does not say where each package is placed. From smithsm at samuelsmith.org Sat Nov 29 14:01:52 2003 From: smithsm at samuelsmith.org (Samuel M. Smith) Date: Sat Nov 29 14:02:01 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] package manager breaks mac help In-Reply-To: <72590B62-0E16-11D8-A2A3-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> References: <72590B62-0E16-11D8-A2A3-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <7E2F9132-229E-11D8-BA59-000A95C4B360@samuelsmith.org> I was able to get mac help from the finder to work again by trashing everythin in my ~user/library/com.apple.helpui folder. I don't get a python reference to show up in help though? > I have Panther 10.3.1. I just installed the macpython additions > MacPython-Panther-2.3.2. > I used package manager from the IDE to install several packages. One > of the packages was the documentation 2.3 binary. After I was done I > tried to access > Mac Help from the finder. It crashes. A window opens for a couple of > seconds and then disappears? > I reboot etc. but mac help from the finder is now broken. Help will > work for given application but not the finder. > > Help! How do I uninstall the documentation package or a given package > in general? The documentation does not say where each package is > placed. > _______________________________________________ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig From smithsm at samuelsmith.org Sat Nov 29 14:24:21 2003 From: smithsm at samuelsmith.org (Samuel M. Smith) Date: Sat Nov 29 14:24:34 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] package manager breaks mac help In-Reply-To: <72590B62-0E16-11D8-A2A3-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> References: <72590B62-0E16-11D8-A2A3-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> Message-ID: Where does the help file for the python reference documentation get put? (as installed by the package manager) After trashing my everything in my ~user/library/com.apple.helpui folder. the python reference now shows up if i search all help. From smithsm at samuelsmith.org Sat Nov 29 14:28:27 2003 From: smithsm at samuelsmith.org (Samuel M. Smith) Date: Sat Nov 29 14:28:34 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] docutils in package manager download fails In-Reply-To: <72590B62-0E16-11D8-A2A3-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> References: <72590B62-0E16-11D8-A2A3-0030655234CE@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <34DDD6CE-22A2-11D8-BA59-000A95C4B360@samuelsmith.org> When trying to install docutils 0.3 from the package manager (Panther) the download fails. From byronea at u.washington.edu Sat Nov 29 21:49:35 2003 From: byronea at u.washington.edu (Byron Amerson) Date: Sat Nov 29 21:49:40 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] compiling gdal against macpython Message-ID: Hi there. I have compiled gdal(geospatial data abstraction lib) on my imac running 10.3.1 - without python. The default build is with python, which would be cool to have. evidently(I think) make is dissatisfied and can not see any dynamic libs. here is a sample of the output: ...stuff above /bin/sh ../libtool --mode=link g++ gdal_wrap.lo numpydataset.lo gdalnumeric.lo ../libgdal.la -lm -ldl -L/usr/local/pgsql/lib -lpq -L../.libs -o _gdalmodule.la \ -rpath /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site- packages \ -no-undefined \ -avoid-version \ -module g++ -Wl,-bind_at_load -o .libs/_gdalmodule.so -bundle .libs/gdal_wrap.o .libs/numpydataset.o .libs/gdalnumeric.o -L/usr/local/pgsql/lib ../.libs/libgdal.dylib -lm -ldl -lpq -L/usr/local/src/gdal/gdal-cvs-031104/.libs ld: Undefined symbols: _PyArg_Parse _PyArg_ParseTuple _PyDict_New _PyDict_Next continued... Frank Warmerdam, gdal's maintainer suggests that I monkey with the GDALmake.opt to get things to work. yikes! None the less in exploring GDALmake.opt, I see the following(in part): PYTHON_INCLUDES = -I/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/include/pyth on2.3 -I/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/include/python2.3 PYTHON_LIBS = PYTHON_CFLAGS = $(OPT) -DHAVE_NUMPY PYTHON = python so It looks like configure and make see the includes but not the libs(dynlibs??). should I just write the path(which is what?) in the space provided and then make install?? any feedback would be very much appreciated. Cheers! Byron Amerson MS student University of Washington Department of Earth and Space Sciences From stuff at obsidiancore.com Sun Nov 30 01:11:00 2003 From: stuff at obsidiancore.com (Winston Wolff) Date: Sun Nov 30 01:11:05 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] aeve app.make help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Would somebody be able to help me with aeve? I'm trying to automate OmniGraffle along the lines of this example: http://www.designweenie.com/content.php/mappingWithGraffle01.php Eventually I want to generate various UML diagrams in OmniGraffle. But first I'm having trouble just getting the hang of AppleScript via Python. I've never used AppleScript, but I've gone through the AppleScript Language Guide. So far I've successfully installed aeve (0.0.4), the iCal example works, and now I want to do the equivalent of this in Python: tell front document of application "OmniGraffle" set shp to make new shape at end of graphics with properties ? {origin:{100, 100}, size:{20, 20}, draws shadow:false, name:"Circle"} end tell And this is what I've got so far: import aeve app = aeve.talkto('/Applications/OmniGraffle.app') from aeve.Applications import OmniGraffle as og origin = og.???._aereg_.iterObjectsForName("origin", aekind="property", deep=True).next() size = og. .???.._aereg_.iterObjectsForName("size", aekind="property", deep=True).next() name = og. .???.._aereg_.iterObjectsForName("name", aekind="property", deep=True).next() shape = app.make(new=og.shape, with_properties={ origin:(100,100), size:(20,20), name:"Circle" } ) The problem seems to be this iterObjectsForName() call. I don't know what object to send this call to. Can anybody help? Thanks, Winston -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2644 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/attachments/20031129/8f340dd3/attachment.bin From chris at fonnesbeck.org Sun Nov 30 18:22:36 2003 From: chris at fonnesbeck.org (Christopher Fonnesbeck) Date: Sun Nov 30 18:23:06 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Where is wx-config? Message-ID: <1525DD42-238C-11D8-9893-000A956FDAC0@fonnesbeck.org> I'm trying to compile a GIS program called Thuban that requires wxPython (among other things), but am running into a strange problem -- I seem to have lost wx-config. I get the following error when building: python setup.py build sh: line 1: wx-config: command not found "wx-config --cflags " failed /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/ distutils/dist.py:213: UserWarning: 'licence' distribution option is deprecated; use 'license' warnings.warn(msg) running build running build_py running build_ext building 'Lib.wxproj' extension gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-long-double -no-cpp-precomp -mno-fused-madd -fno-common -dynamic -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -faltivec -lcc_dynamic -Ilibraries/shapelib -I/usr/local/include -Ilibraries/pyshapelib/ -I/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/include/ python2.3 -c libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp -o build/temp.darwin-7.0.0-Power_Macintosh-2.3/libraries/thuban/wxproj.o libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:31:19: wx/wx.h: No such file or directory libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:178: error: syntax error before `*' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:185: error: `num_vertices' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:185: error: `num_parts' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:186: error: syntax error before `*' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:193: error: `num_vertices' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:193: error: parse error before `;' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:193: error: syntax error before `++' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:197: error: `x' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:197: error: `y' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:197: error: `forward' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:197: error: `inverse' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:198: error: `scalex' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:198: error: `scaley' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:198: error: `offx' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:198: error: `offy' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: error: `xs' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: error: `i' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: error: `ys' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: error: `i' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: warning: ISO C++ forbids declaration of ` project_point' with no type libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: error: `int project_point' redeclared as different kind of symbol libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:135: error: previous declaration of `void project_point(double*, double*, PJ*, PJ*, double, double, double, double, double, double)' libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: warning: initializer list being treated as compound expression libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:200: error: `i' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:200: error: syntax error before `.' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:201: error: `i' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:201: error: syntax error before `.' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:211: error: syntax error before `>' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:211: error: syntax error before `--' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:232: error: syntax error before `*' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp: In function `PyObject* draw_polygon_init(PyObject*, PyObject*)': libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:282: error: 'struct s_draw_info' has no member named 'dc' libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:282: error: `wxDC' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:282: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once for each function it appears in.) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:282: error: parse error before `)' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:283: error: 'struct s_draw_info' has no member named 'dc' libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp: In function `PyObject* draw_polygon_shape(PyObject*, PyObject*)': libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:323: error: `wxPoint' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:323: error: `points' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:324: error: `wxPen' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:324: error: `pen' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:325: error: `wxBrush' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:325: error: `brush' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:327: error: `dc' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:344: error: parse error before `)' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:359: error: parse error before `)' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:379: error: `project_points' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:380: error: 'struct s_draw_info' has no member named 'dc' libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:385: error: `wxTRANSPARENT_BRUSH' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:387: error: `wxTRANSPARENT_PEN' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:395: error: 'struct s_draw_info' has no member named 'dc' libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:396: error: 'struct s_draw_info' has no member named 'dc' libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp: In function `PyObject* shape_centroid(PyObject*, PyObject*)': libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:635: error: `project_point' cannot be used as a function libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:641: error: `project_point' cannot be used as a function error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1 I have wxPython installed alongside MacPython, so where should wx-config end up? Thanks, -- Christopher J. Fonnesbeck ( c h r i s @ f o n n e s b e c k . o r g ) Georgia Cooperative Fish & Wildlife Research Unit, University of Georgia From skip at pobox.com Sun Nov 30 18:34:25 2003 From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro) Date: Sun Nov 30 18:34:55 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: [Spambayes] Autostart on Mac OS X In-Reply-To: <20031128220937377074.GyazMail.takeyasu@avis.ne.jp> References: <20031128220937377074.GyazMail.takeyasu@avis.ne.jp> Message-ID: <16330.32385.85976.655184@montanaro.dyndns.org> Takeyasu> I am using Mac OS X 10.3. How is what is necessary just to Takeyasu> carry out spambayes for making it start automatically? I use the sb_filter.py app on Mac OS X, however it's run from procmail, so I never investigated how to autostart something like sb_server.py. I sort of suspect this is a fairly generic MacPython question, so I've cc'd my reply there. Skip From kevino at tulane.edu Sun Nov 30 21:08:26 2003 From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier) Date: Sun Nov 30 21:09:28 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Where is wx-config? In-Reply-To: <1525DD42-238C-11D8-9893-000A956FDAC0@fonnesbeck.org> References: <1525DD42-238C-11D8-9893-000A956FDAC0@fonnesbeck.org> Message-ID: <3FCD630C-23A3-11D8-B158-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Check and see if wx-config is located at /usr/local/bin, and if so, try adding /usr/local/bin to your PATH environment variable. Kevin On Nov 30, 2003, at 3:22 PM, Christopher Fonnesbeck wrote: > I'm trying to compile a GIS program called Thuban that requires > wxPython (among other things), but am running into a strange problem > -- I seem to have lost wx-config. I get the following error when > building: > > python setup.py build > sh: line 1: wx-config: command not found > "wx-config --cflags " failed > /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ > python2.3/distutils/dist.py:213: UserWarning: 'licence' distribution > option is deprecated; use 'license' > warnings.warn(msg) > running build > running build_py > running build_ext > building 'Lib.wxproj' extension > gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-long-double -no-cpp-precomp > -mno-fused-madd -fno-common -dynamic -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall > -Wstrict-prototypes -faltivec -lcc_dynamic -Ilibraries/shapelib > -I/usr/local/include -Ilibraries/pyshapelib/ > -I/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/include/ > python2.3 -c libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp -o > build/temp.darwin-7.0.0-Power_Macintosh-2.3/libraries/thuban/wxproj.o > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:31:19: wx/wx.h: No such file or directory > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:178: error: syntax error before `*' token > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:185: error: `num_vertices' was not > declared in this > scope > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:185: error: `num_parts' was not declared > in this > scope > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:186: error: syntax error before `*' token > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:193: error: `num_vertices' was not > declared in this > scope > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:193: error: parse error before `;' token > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:193: error: syntax error before `++' token > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:197: error: `x' was not declared in this > scope > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:197: error: `y' was not declared in this > scope > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:197: error: `forward' was not declared in > this > scope > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:197: error: `inverse' was not declared in > this > scope > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:198: error: `scalex' was not declared in > this scope > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:198: error: `scaley' was not declared in > this scope > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:198: error: `offx' was not declared in > this scope > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:198: error: `offy' was not declared in > this scope > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: error: `xs' was not declared in this > scope > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: error: `i' was not declared in this > scope > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: error: `ys' was not declared in this > scope > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: error: `i' was not declared in this > scope > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: warning: ISO C++ forbids declaration > of ` > project_point' with no type > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: error: `int project_point' redeclared > as > different kind of symbol > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:135: error: previous declaration of `void > project_point(double*, double*, PJ*, PJ*, double, double, double, > double, > double, double)' > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: warning: initializer list being > treated as > compound expression > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:200: error: `i' was not declared in this > scope > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:200: error: syntax error before `.' token > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:201: error: `i' was not declared in this > scope > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:201: error: syntax error before `.' token > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:211: error: syntax error before `>' token > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:211: error: syntax error before `--' token > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:232: error: syntax error before `*' token > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp: In function `PyObject* > draw_polygon_init(PyObject*, PyObject*)': > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:282: error: 'struct s_draw_info' has no > member > named 'dc' > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:282: error: `wxDC' undeclared (first use > this > function) > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:282: error: (Each undeclared identifier is > reported > only once for each function it appears in.) > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:282: error: parse error before `)' token > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:283: error: 'struct s_draw_info' has no > member > named 'dc' > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp: In function `PyObject* > draw_polygon_shape(PyObject*, PyObject*)': > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:323: error: `wxPoint' undeclared (first > use this > function) > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:323: error: `points' undeclared (first use > this > function) > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:324: error: `wxPen' undeclared (first use > this > function) > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:324: error: `pen' undeclared (first use > this > function) > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:325: error: `wxBrush' undeclared (first > use this > function) > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:325: error: `brush' undeclared (first use > this > function) > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:327: error: `dc' undeclared (first use this > function) > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:344: error: parse error before `)' token > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:359: error: parse error before `)' token > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:379: error: `project_points' undeclared > (first use > this function) > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:380: error: 'struct s_draw_info' has no > member > named 'dc' > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:385: error: `wxTRANSPARENT_BRUSH' > undeclared (first > use this function) > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:387: error: `wxTRANSPARENT_PEN' undeclared > (first > use this function) > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:395: error: 'struct s_draw_info' has no > member > named 'dc' > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:396: error: 'struct s_draw_info' has no > member > named 'dc' > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp: In function `PyObject* > shape_centroid(PyObject*, > PyObject*)': > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:635: error: `project_point' cannot be used > as a > function > libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:641: error: `project_point' cannot be used > as a > function > error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1 > > I have wxPython installed alongside MacPython, so where should > wx-config end up? > > Thanks, > -- > Christopher J. Fonnesbeck ( c h r i s @ f o n n e s b e c k . o r g ) > Georgia Cooperative Fish & Wildlife Research Unit, University of > Georgia > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > From chris at fonnesbeck.org Sun Nov 30 21:18:42 2003 From: chris at fonnesbeck.org (Christopher Fonnesbeck) Date: Sun Nov 30 21:18:52 2003 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Where is wx-config? In-Reply-To: <3FCD630C-23A3-11D8-B158-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> References: <1525DD42-238C-11D8-9893-000A956FDAC0@fonnesbeck.org> <3FCD630C-23A3-11D8-B158-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> Message-ID: Thanks ... I've looked in all the obvious places, like /usr/local/bin and /usr/bin, but it is not there! On Nov 30, 2003, at 9:08 PM, Kevin Ollivier wrote: > Check and see if wx-config is located at /usr/local/bin, and if so, > try adding /usr/local/bin to your PATH environment variable. > > Kevin > > On Nov 30, 2003, at 3:22 PM, Christopher Fonnesbeck wrote: > >> I'm trying to compile a GIS program called Thuban that requires >> wxPython (among other things), but am running into a strange problem >> -- I seem to have lost wx-config. I get the following error when >> building: >> >> python setup.py build >> sh: line 1: wx-config: command not found >> "wx-config --cflags " failed >> /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/ >> python2.3/distutils/dist.py:213: UserWarning: 'licence' distribution >> option is deprecated; use 'license' >> warnings.warn(msg) >> running build >> running build_py >> running build_ext >> building 'Lib.wxproj' extension >> gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-long-double -no-cpp-precomp >> -mno-fused-madd -fno-common -dynamic -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall >> -Wstrict-prototypes -faltivec -lcc_dynamic -Ilibraries/shapelib >> -I/usr/local/include -Ilibraries/pyshapelib/ >> -I/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/include/ >> python2.3 -c libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp -o >> build/temp.darwin-7.0.0-Power_Macintosh-2.3/libraries/thuban/wxproj.o >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:31:19: wx/wx.h: No such file or directory >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:178: error: syntax error before `*' token >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:185: error: `num_vertices' was not >> declared in this >> scope >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:185: error: `num_parts' was not declared >> in this >> scope >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:186: error: syntax error before `*' token >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:193: error: `num_vertices' was not >> declared in this >> scope >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:193: error: parse error before `;' token >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:193: error: syntax error before `++' token >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:197: error: `x' was not declared in this >> scope >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:197: error: `y' was not declared in this >> scope >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:197: error: `forward' was not declared in >> this >> scope >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:197: error: `inverse' was not declared in >> this >> scope >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:198: error: `scalex' was not declared in >> this scope >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:198: error: `scaley' was not declared in >> this scope >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:198: error: `offx' was not declared in >> this scope >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:198: error: `offy' was not declared in >> this scope >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: error: `xs' was not declared in this >> scope >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: error: `i' was not declared in this >> scope >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: error: `ys' was not declared in this >> scope >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: error: `i' was not declared in this >> scope >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: warning: ISO C++ forbids declaration >> of ` >> project_point' with no type >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: error: `int project_point' >> redeclared as >> different kind of symbol >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:135: error: previous declaration of `void >> project_point(double*, double*, PJ*, PJ*, double, double, double, >> double, >> double, double)' >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: warning: initializer list being >> treated as >> compound expression >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:200: error: `i' was not declared in this >> scope >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:200: error: syntax error before `.' token >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:201: error: `i' was not declared in this >> scope >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:201: error: syntax error before `.' token >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:211: error: syntax error before `>' token >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:211: error: syntax error before `--' token >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:232: error: syntax error before `*' token >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp: In function `PyObject* >> draw_polygon_init(PyObject*, PyObject*)': >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:282: error: 'struct s_draw_info' has no >> member >> named 'dc' >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:282: error: `wxDC' undeclared (first use >> this >> function) >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:282: error: (Each undeclared identifier >> is reported >> only once for each function it appears in.) >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:282: error: parse error before `)' token >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:283: error: 'struct s_draw_info' has no >> member >> named 'dc' >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp: In function `PyObject* >> draw_polygon_shape(PyObject*, PyObject*)': >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:323: error: `wxPoint' undeclared (first >> use this >> function) >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:323: error: `points' undeclared (first >> use this >> function) >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:324: error: `wxPen' undeclared (first use >> this >> function) >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:324: error: `pen' undeclared (first use >> this >> function) >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:325: error: `wxBrush' undeclared (first >> use this >> function) >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:325: error: `brush' undeclared (first use >> this >> function) >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:327: error: `dc' undeclared (first use >> this >> function) >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:344: error: parse error before `)' token >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:359: error: parse error before `)' token >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:379: error: `project_points' undeclared >> (first use >> this function) >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:380: error: 'struct s_draw_info' has no >> member >> named 'dc' >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:385: error: `wxTRANSPARENT_BRUSH' >> undeclared (first >> use this function) >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:387: error: `wxTRANSPARENT_PEN' >> undeclared (first >> use this function) >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:395: error: 'struct s_draw_info' has no >> member >> named 'dc' >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:396: error: 'struct s_draw_info' has no >> member >> named 'dc' >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp: In function `PyObject* >> shape_centroid(PyObject*, >> PyObject*)': >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:635: error: `project_point' cannot be >> used as a >> function >> libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:641: error: `project_point' cannot be >> used as a >> function >> error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1 >> >> I have wxPython installed alongside MacPython, so where should >> wx-config end up? >> >> Thanks, >> -- >> Christopher J. Fonnesbeck ( c h r i s @ f o n n e s b e c k . o r g ) >> Georgia Cooperative Fish & Wildlife Research Unit, University of >> Georgia >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig >> > > > -- Christopher J. Fonnesbeck ( c h r i s @ f o n n e s b e c k . o r g ) Georgia Cooperative Fish & Wildlife Research Unit, University of Georgia