[Pythonmac-SIG] Re: [wxPython-mac] Python that ships with Jaguar vs...

[Bill Bumgarner]

Apple hadn't shipped Python with the system to this point in time 
because Python was too much in flux during the period of time that 
Apple was in the process of freezing the system.  Bummer that they 
didn't stick with one version behind, but considering that Fink has 
always provided the latest stable version of python via a simple 
command (fink install python), it was not a big deal and, likely, 
caused less hell than shipping a version of python one major version 
behind the rest of the world.

In terms of the Python-as-a-framework build, it was wwwwaaayyyy in flux 
in the middle of when Jaguar was frozen many months ago.  Keep in mind 
that Jaguar and Darwin are frozen *months* before release.  On the 
above-darwin layers, this means that changes may still happen to fix 
bugs, etc.   On the below darwin layers, it means that whatever version 
of the various random utilities-- curl, perl, python, ruby, etc... -- 
are frozen until after the system ships.

A python folder *should* be in Darwin somewhere -- I haven't looked.  
It is clearly a *relatively* default build, though it seems to be 
missing a .a, as well.   However, there is no conflict with simply 
doing 'fink install python' to provide a library.

If anything, someone should put together a Fink package that installs 
python as a framework.   This makes it extremely accessible and also 
gives the Apple folks an easy way to grab and install the package or -- 
at the least -- see the patches necessary to make the build happen.

However, for Apple to release Python as a framework requires 
significant effort above and beyond simply providing a buildable source 
tree.  They have to verify that it doesn't conflict with other parts of 
the system -- sounds trivial, but isn't entirely so because it also 
requires that building the Python based framework install can be 
totally quantified and totally automated (i.e. what if a security hole 
is discovered and Apple has to release a .pkg that includes just 
Python?).

If you have simple tweaks for the makefile, please ensure that a Fink 
package is created and also file a bugreport.apple.com based feature 
request that includes both a request for the framework build of Python 
AND the instructions on how to do so!

I would *love* to see Python.framework as a standard part of the system 
-- it will take time.

And while you are at it, make sure you pick up the PyObjC module.  
Ronald has done an ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLY FREAKIN' AMAZING job of 
pushing the project forward to the point where you can build Real World 
Cocoa applications using Python -- including using Python to subclass 
ObjC classes.   AWESOME!

b.bum

On Tuesday, Sep 10, 2002, at 20:55 US/Eastern, Kevin Altis wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Alexandre Parenteau" <aparente@adobe.com>
> To: "wxPyMac" <wxpython-mac@lists.wxwindows.org>,
>   "Chris Barker" <Chris.Barker@noaa.gov>,
>   "MacPython" <pythonmac-sig@python.org>
> Subject: Re: [wxPython-mac] Python that ships with Jaguar vs...
> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 17:42:45 -0700
>
>> Kevin et al..
>>
>> From what I have heard, Apple has shipped a straight Unix Python. I
>> suppose they did this because it's easy and they are mostly thinking 
>> of
>> supporting CGI and shell type scripting.
>
> To the credit of Apple, it is only recently, and far after the freeze 
> of
> Jaguar, than it became obvious (at least to me) that MacPython was 
> going to
> default to the framework layout.
>
> But that raises an interesting question of how to deal with Apple (or 
> Apple
> with Python) as far as packaging is concerned.
>
> Is now python part of the Darwin project ? Did someone see a python 
> folder
> popping up in the CVS folders of Darwin ? If that is the case, a simple
> patch that tweaks the Darwin makefile for Python might be enough, and 
> we
> just have to suggest it.
>
> If not, we need to find out who is in charge at Apple.
>
> Alex.
>
>
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b.bum
Wake up. Breathe....
	.... keep breathing.