From owen@astro.washington.edu  Thu Mar  1 00:15:31 2001
From: owen@astro.washington.edu (Russell E Owen)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:15:31 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1a3 also available for classic PPC
Message-ID: <v04220801b6c34485a998@[128.95.99.44]>

Just tried it and it works a lot better for me than the previous 
2.1a3. ConfigurePython built the necessary applets.

I am a bit surprised to have three similar files:
- PythonInterpreter
- PythonInterpreterCarbon
- PythonInterpreterClassic
all in the main python folder.

I still can't get Tkinter to load. It is recognized as a module, but 
_tkinter is not found (shades of the past):

>>>  import Tkinter
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "russmain:python 2.1a3:lib:lib-tk:Tkinter.py", line 35, in ?
     import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk
ImportError: No module named _tkinter
>>>

I looked through my Python 2.1a3 folder and found two different files 
called _tkinter.ppc.slb:
:Mac:PlugIns:_tkinter.ppc.slb 1.6Mb last modified 2/28/01
:Extensions:Imaging:PIL:_tkinter.ppc.slb 1.2Mb last modified 1/11/00
presumably the former is the right one, but I'm not sure where to 
move it so that it will be found.

All of my own non-Tk code I've tried to test works. The standard 
tests showed results that looked normal to me:
98 tests OK.
2 tests failed: test_longexp test_zlib
28 tests skipped: test_al test_bsddb test_cd test_cl test_crypt 
test_dbm test_dl test_fcntl test_fork1 test_gc test_gl test_grp 
test_imgfile test_largefile test_linuxaudiodev test_mmap test_nis 
test_openpty test_poll test_popen2 test_pty test_pwd test_signal 
test_sunaudiodev test_sundry test_timing test_winreg test_winsound

Well done!

-- Russell


From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Mar  1 10:37:10 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 11:37:10 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1a3 also available for classic PPC
In-Reply-To: Message by Russell E Owen <owen@astro.washington.edu> ,
 Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:15:31 -0800 , <v04220801b6c34485a998@[128.95.99.44]>
Message-ID: <20010301103715.44BA7EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Russell E Owen <owen@astro.washington.edu> said:
> I am a bit surprised to have three similar files:
> - PythonInterpreter
> - PythonInterpreterCarbon
> - PythonInterpreterClassic
> all in the main python folder.

Yes, it's a bit of a nuisance. PythonInterpreter is a copy of either
of the other two (ConfigurePythonXXX does the copying).

I could probably try hiding the the other two, by giving them a
different extension and putting them in a different place, although
I'm not quite sure about what would be a good place. Any ideas?


> I still can't get Tkinter to load. It is recognized as a module, but 
> _tkinter is not found (shades of the past):
> 
> >>>  import Tkinter
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    File "russmain:python 2.1a3:lib:lib-tk:Tkinter.py", line 35, in ?
>      import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk
> ImportError: No module named _tkinter

Yep, Tkinter is not supported for Carbon. This is the main reason for
doing the dual-install. Shoul I add a dummy module _tkinter that gives 
a better error message? (ImportError: _tkinter not supported under
Carbon)

> I looked through my Python 2.1a3 folder and found two different files 
> called _tkinter.ppc.slb:
> :Mac:PlugIns:_tkinter.ppc.slb 1.6Mb last modified 2/28/01
> :Extensions:Imaging:PIL:_tkinter.ppc.slb 1.2Mb last modified 1/11/00

Oops. The PlugIns one is indeed the right one, I'll get rid of the
other one. That also shaves another megabyte or so off the distribution:-)
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From owen@astro.washington.edu  Thu Mar  1 16:53:42 2001
From: owen@astro.washington.edu (Russell E Owen)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:53:42 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1a3 also available for classic PPC
In-Reply-To: <20010301103715.44BA7EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010301103715.44BA7EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <v04220803b6c428953eff@[128.95.99.44]>

>Recently, Russell E Owen <owen@astro.washington.edu> said:
>>  I am a bit surprised to have three similar files:
>>  - PythonInterpreter
>>  - PythonInterpreterCarbon
>>  - PythonInterpreterClassic
>>  all in the main python folder.
>
>Yes, it's a bit of a nuisance. PythonInterpreter is a copy of either
>of the other two (ConfigurePythonXXX does the copying).
>
>I could probably try hiding the the other two, by giving them a
>different extension and putting them in a different place, although
>I'm not quite sure about what would be a good place. Any ideas?

Here's one idea: make PythonInterpreter an alias instead of a copy; 
that makes it clearer what's going on, as one can resolve the alias 
to find out which interpreter is being used. Then you could put both 
of the specific interpreters elsewhere (e.g. in the Mac folder) or 
just leave them where they are.


Regarding Tk:

I tested Tk in the classic environment and it seems to mostly work. 
The two problems I found were:
- I cannot quit a Tk application -- after cmd-Q the output window 
comes to the front and shows <<terminated>>, as usual, but at that 
point I'm stuck until I do a force exit. I don't see this behavior in 
MacPython 2.0, and I have verified that both interpreters are using 
the same startup options.
- File events are broken, as in MacPython 2.0.

Do you have any idea what is involved in getting Tkinter to run under 
Carbon? I am willing to do some work on it.

Meanwhile, yes it would be great if we had a better error message. 
Simply putting it in the ReadMe would be a reasonable second choice 
(many folks would see it, others would email this list).


Finally, just out of curiosity, I notice that there is only one IDE. 
Is it somehow using the current PythonInterpreter or does it only run 
under classic or...?

-- Russell


From owen@astro.washington.edu  Thu Mar  1 17:34:56 2001
From: owen@astro.washington.edu (Russell E Owen)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:34:56 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Request to BBEdit owners: ask for Python support
Message-ID: <v04220805b6c4377dbf83@[128.95.99.44]>

I'd like to ask any registered owners of BBEdit to ask BBEdit support 
<support@barebones.com> for Python language support. They have a 
language plugin architecture and support a fair # of languages, so it 
may be a reasonable request.

I looked at their language plugin SDK and it's pretty arcane; I gave 
up on doing it myself and am hoping we can convince them to do it. I 
realize Pepper offers it now, and it's a fine editor, but I suspect a 
lot of us already own BBEdit and would be happier sticking to it.

-- Russell


From Mark@SplitSW.com  Thu Mar  1 22:58:41 2001
From: Mark@SplitSW.com (Mark Adler)
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 14:58:41 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Talking to Build Applet/Build Application using AppleEvents or
 other?
Message-ID: <B6C41421.5FE%Mark@SplitSW.com>

Hello Everyone,
    Is there anyway that I would be able to tell the build applet or build
application apps to open and build a certain source file from another
application? What I want to do specifically is send it an apple event from
my app (which IS NOT written in python) telling it to open and build a file.
Is this possible? If not, is there any way I could do it using another means
besides apple events, like maybe calling the PythonCore library directly?

Regards,
Mark

-- 
Mark Adler
Split Software
http://www.splitsw.com
Mark@SplitSW.com



From chriss@dnastar.com  Thu Mar  1 21:40:48 2001
From: chriss@dnastar.com (Chris)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:40:48 -0600
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] BBEdit Python support
In-Reply-To: <v04220805b6c4377dbf83@[128.95.99.44]>
References: <v04220805b6c4377dbf83@[128.95.99.44]>
Message-ID: <p05010400b6c47158dc9d@[198.150.22.77]>

I've written a BBEdit Language Module for Python. For the time being 
i'll put it up at http://homepage.mac.com/christopherstern/ - note i 
don't habe unicode support, but I thinl everything else works.


From owen@astro.washington.edu  Thu Mar  1 22:30:04 2001
From: owen@astro.washington.edu (Russell E Owen)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:30:04 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] BBEdit Python support
In-Reply-To: <p05010400b6c47158dc9d@[198.150.22.77]>
References: <v04220805b6c4377dbf83@[128.95.99.44]>
 <p05010400b6c47158dc9d@[198.150.22.77]>
Message-ID: <p05100104b6c47d552871@[128.95.99.44]>

>I've written a BBEdit Language Module for Python. For the time being 
>i'll put it up at http://homepage.mac.com/christopherstern/ - note i 
>don't habe unicode support, but I thinl everything else works.

Thanks a million! Its working great so far. I'm impressed you were 
able to wade through their SDK's interface.

In case anybody is interested, I have some quickie BBEdit 
AppleScripts to comment and uncomment lines at 
<ftp://ftp.astro.washington.edu/pub/users/owen/> -- works for Python 
and some other languages.

-- Russell


From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Mar  1 22:49:17 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 23:49:17 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1a3 also available for classic PPC
In-Reply-To: Message by Russell E Owen <owen@astro.washington.edu> ,
 Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:53:42 -0800 , <v04220803b6c428953eff@[128.95.99.44]>
Message-ID: <20010301224922.8774DEA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Russell E Owen <owen@astro.washington.edu> said:
> >Yes, it's a bit of a nuisance. PythonInterpreter is a copy of either
> >of the other two (ConfigurePythonXXX does the copying).
> >
> >I could probably try hiding the the other two, by giving them a
> >different extension and putting them in a different place, although
> >I'm not quite sure about what would be a good place. Any ideas?
> 
> Here's one idea: make PythonInterpreter an alias instead of a copy; 
> that makes it clearer what's going on, as one can resolve the alias 
> to find out which interpreter is being used. Then you could put both 
> of the specific interpreters elsewhere (e.g. in the Mac folder) or 
> just leave them where they are.

This wouldn't be good enough for the Finder. The problem is that I
want that double-clicking a Python source file will fire up the
"current" interpreter. With the current scheme this works, as long as
you-the-user don't start one of the specific interpreters before
starting the general interpreter. Still, I think this isn't good
enough, I may have to change the filetype of the specific
interpreters. Or, better, find out how to create a fat-classic-carbon
application. It's doable, things like VISE installers are created that 
way, and there's a shareware app that creates them for you. But I
would like to find out the exact scheme to use, so the
ConfigurePythonXXX scripts can make either Carbon or Classic
preferred. Any ideas are welcome.

> I tested Tk in the classic environment and it seems to mostly work. 
> The two problems I found were:
> - I cannot quit a Tk application -- after cmd-Q the output window 
> comes to the front and shows <<terminated>>, as usual, but at that 
> point I'm stuck until I do a force exit. I don't see this behavior in 
> MacPython 2.0, and I have verified that both interpreters are using 
> the same startup options.

This is a general problem: the revert-menubar-code is broken. I'll put 
it in the release notes.

> - File events are broken, as in MacPython 2.0.

> Do you have any idea what is involved in getting Tkinter to run under 
> Carbon? I am willing to do some work on it.

For MacOSX I think it's out of the question until the Tk folks port
their code. For MacOS8/9-Carbon it may be doable: there is nothing
against a Carbon app dynamically loading a shared library that is
InterfaceLib-based. So what would be needed is to create a
Python-specific Tcl/Tk shared library, InterfaceLib based, which is
loaded by _tkinter.carbon.slb.

I think the shortcut, linking _tkinter.carbon.slb as a whole against
InterfaceLib, isn't going to work because of its dependency on
PythonCoreCarbon. But maybe I'm wrong here and this would work too
(and it would definitely be a lot simpler). Maybe the link order (put
InterfaceLib before PythonCore) would do the trick?

I think we need a Python-specific tcl/tcl shared lib, because we
override a couple of tcl/tk things. But again, I'm not sure.

> Meanwhile, yes it would be great if we had a better error message. 

Ok, I'l try to do something about it.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Mar  1 22:53:22 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 23:53:22 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Talking to Build Applet/Build Application using AppleEvents or other?
In-Reply-To: Message by Mark Adler <Mark@SplitSW.com> ,
 Thu, 01 Mar 2001 14:58:41 -0800 , <B6C41421.5FE%Mark@SplitSW.com>
Message-ID: <20010301225327.05D07EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Mark Adler <Mark@SplitSW.com> said:
> Hello Everyone,
>     Is there anyway that I would be able to tell the build applet or build
> application apps to open and build a certain source file from another
> application? What I want to do specifically is send it an apple event from
> my app (which IS NOT written in python) telling it to open and build a file.
> Is this possible? If not, is there any way I could do it using another means
> besides apple events, like maybe calling the PythonCore library directly?

Great idea!

They would need a slight structural change, currently if opened
without a file being dropped on them they immedeately show an "open
source script" dialog, but they would need to become fullblown
applications (probably only with "Convert" and "Quit" commands), and
then the rest shouldn't be too hard (using MiniAEFrame).

Any takers? I'm too busy right now....
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Mar  1 23:04:19 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 00:04:19 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] double-clicking Python files on OSX
Message-ID: <20010301230424.75114EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

It appears that a BNDL resource isn't enough to make OSX start
PythonInterpreter when you double-click a python file. At least: at
isn't for me, I get a "which application do you want to use" dialog.

So, first question: does everyone get this?

And, second question: what can I do about it? It probably has
something to do with plst resources or something, but if someone could 
point me at the right manual that would be great.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | ++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/ ++++


From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Mar  1 23:10:39 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 00:10:39 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] BBEdit Python support
In-Reply-To: Message by Chris <chriss@dnastar.com> ,
 Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:40:48 -0600 , <p05010400b6c47158dc9d@[198.150.22.77]>
Message-ID: <20010301231044.76DB3EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Chris <chriss@dnastar.com> said:
> I've written a BBEdit Language Module for Python. For the time being 
> i'll put it up at http://homepage.mac.com/christopherstern/ - note i 
> don't habe unicode support, but I thinl everything else works.

Chris,
brilliant!

Someone from BareBones contacted me last week, saying that they're
customers are asking for this (wonder which customers:-), and I
suggested he'd ask again here. But as he hasn't done so yet I'll
forward his message to me here after this one, it might be worthwhile
getting into contact with them ( at the very least to tell them this
exists).

You say "for the time being": are you going to move it elsewhere? Do
you want me to include it in the distribution? The CVS archive? Link
to it? 
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Mar  1 23:12:11 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 00:12:11 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Forwarded: Christian Smith: MacPython and BBEdit
Message-ID: <20010301231216.7CFBAEA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

--boogadaboogadabooga
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Here is the message from BareBones that I referred to.

--boogadaboogadabooga
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Replied:  Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:33:15 +0100
Replied:  Christian Smith <csmith@barebones.com>
>From csmith@barebones.com  Sat Feb 24 00: 11:18 2001
Return-Path:  <csmith@barebones.com>
Delivered-To:  jack@oratrix.nl
Received:  from hera.cwi.nl (hera.cwi.nl [192.16.191.8])
	  	by oratrix.oratrix.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63C4211CA29
	  	for <jack@oratrix.nl>; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:11:18 +0100 (MET)
Received:  from barebones.com ([204.107.232.35] [204.107.232.35]) by hera.cwi.n
l with ESMTP
	  	id AAA26339 for <jack@cwi.nl>; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:11:16 +0100 
(MET)
Received:  from 204.107.232.107 ([204.107.232.107] verified)
	    by barebones.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3.1)
	    with ESMTP id 866005 for jack@cwi.nl; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 18:11:05 -05
00
Date:  Fri, 23 Feb 2001 18:11:04 -0500
From:  Christian Smith <csmith@barebones.com>
Subject:  MacPython and BBEdit
To:  Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl
X-Priority:  3
Message-ID:  <20010223181105-r01010600-0a2630d2@204.107.232.107>
MIME-Version:  1.0
Content-Type:  text/plain; Charset=US-ASCII
X-Mailer:  Mailsmith 1.1.6 (Bluto)

Jack, I am contacting you since you are the maintainer of MacPython.

BBEdit has had syntax coloring for various languages for several years
now but one language we currently do not support and for which we get a
fair number of requests is Python. We recently (as of the release of
BBEdit 6.0) added support in BBEdit for extending the syntax coloring
via "language modules". These modules can also provide function
scanning.

Documentation for the API and sample code is available from our web site
at

<http://www.barebones.com/support/developer.html>

Perhaps you or someone you know would be interested in doing a Python
language module.

Another issue which comes up occasionally is the ability for BBEdit to
send data to MacPython for execution/checking (similar to what is
currently available with MacPerl). This integration between BBEdit and
MacPerl is handle by AppleEvents but there does not seem to be any sort
of support for this in MacPython. I think that this is something which
would greatly enhance the MacPython IDE and even better would be more
general support for external editors.

Any thoughts on this?

-- 
Christian Smith  |  csmith@barebones.com  |  http://web.barebones.com

He who dies with the most friends... Is still dead!


--boogadaboogadabooga--


From owen@astro.washington.edu  Thu Mar  1 23:33:36 2001
From: owen@astro.washington.edu (Russell E Owen)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:33:36 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1a3 also available for classic PPC
In-Reply-To: <20010301224922.8774DEA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010301224922.8774DEA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <p05100105b6c4891eed45@[128.95.99.44]>

>Recently, Russell E Owen <owen@astro.washington.edu> said:
>>  >Yes, it's a bit of a nuisance. PythonInterpreter is a copy of either
>>  >of the other two (ConfigurePythonXXX does the copying).
>>  >
>>  >I could probably try hiding the the other two, by giving them a
>>  >different extension and putting them in a different place, although
>>  >I'm not quite sure about what would be a good place. Any ideas?
>>
>>  Here's one idea: make PythonInterpreter an alias instead of a copy;
>>  that makes it clearer what's going on, as one can resolve the alias
>>  to find out which interpreter is being used. Then you could put both
>>  of the specific interpreters elsewhere (e.g. in the Mac folder) or
>>  just leave them where they are.
>
>This wouldn't be good enough for the Finder. The problem is that I
>want that double-clicking a Python source file will fire up the
>"current" interpreter...

I see. I missed that since I don't double-click my scripts to run 
them. So we'd clearly be best off with only one application having a 
given creator code. So how about this simple (perhaps overly so) 
solution: have the user run ConfigurePythonClassic or 
ConfigurePythonCarbon to set things up appropriately. The 
Configure... applet writes out the file PythonInterpreter of the 
appropriate flavor, overwriting the old one, if any.

Savvy users can save a copies of the appropriate flavor of 
PythonInterpreter by another name, but have to realize that unless 
they change the creator code they may get themselves into trouble.

Of course a "fat" carbon/non-carbon app sounds even better, but trickier.

Thanks for the explanation about getting Tkinter to run under Carbon, 
also. Ouch. I've started trying to find out what the Tk folks are up 
to on the Mac.

-- Russell


From chriss@dnastar.com  Fri Mar  2 00:59:37 2001
From: chriss@dnastar.com (Chris)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 18:59:37 -0600
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] BBEdit Python support
In-Reply-To: <20010301231044.76DB3EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010301231044.76DB3EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <p05010401b6c4938ce5d1@[198.150.22.77]>

At 12:10 AM +0100 3/2/01, Jack Jansen wrote:
>You say "for the time being": are you going to move it elsewhere? Do

I say 'for the time being' not because i have plans for the future, 
but merely because I don't. If you want to distribute it, that would 
be great, if you think CVSing it with the rest of the distribution 
makes sense, that's fine too.

I think it's largely complete. The two issues i've been wanting to ardress are:
	Unicode support (stepping by 2 instead of 1 when appropriate),
	Memory access - it may be possible to coax the function 
parser into looking past the end of the text. That is - it wouldn't 
surprise me if while scanning a file that ends in 'de' it looked for 
the 'f' even though it shouldn't. If your file ends with a \n &/^ \r 
or is anyweare close to beeing syntacticaly correct python, you're 
problably safe.

These are both fairly minor issues, I just havn't had the time to 
deal with them lately, and this could well be the case for the next 
several weeks.


From cbarker@jps.net  Fri Mar  2 20:45:06 2001
From: cbarker@jps.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 12:45:06 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Forwarded: Christian Smith: MacPython and BBEdit
References: <20010301231216.7CFBAEA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <3AA00652.1A507799@jps.net>

Jack Jansen wrote:
> Here is the message from BareBones that I referred to.

> Another issue which comes up occasionally is the ability for BBEdit to
> send data to MacPython for execution/checking (similar to what is
> currently available with MacPerl). This integration between BBEdit and
> MacPerl is handle by AppleEvents but there does not seem to be any sort
> of support for this in MacPython. I think that this is something which
> would greatly enhance the MacPython IDE and even better would be more
> general support for external editors.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?

Yes, yes yes! please someone do this!!!! I would do it myself, but I
really am out of my depth with this, I have no idea even how to start.

-Chris



-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From chriss@dnastar.com  Sun Mar  4 04:24:33 2001
From: chriss@dnastar.com (Chris)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 22:24:33 -0600
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] BBEdit Python support
In-Reply-To: <p05100108b6c5f009db1a@[128.95.99.44]>
References: <20010301231044.76DB3EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
 <p05010401b6c4938ce5d1@[198.150.22.77]>
 <p05100108b6c5f009db1a@[128.95.99.44]>
Message-ID: <p05010400b6c7711b6eb7@[198.150.22.77]>

At 4:51 PM -0800 3/2/01, Russell E Owen wrote:
>I have found one minor bug so far:
>\" in a string does not seem to be recognized as just a part of the 
>string. hence a string such as:
>    "\"foo"
>will show "\" in pink, foo in black and the final " and following 
>stuff in pink again.

That's correct, in fact it dosn't realy understand about tripple-quotes
at all, it thinks '''xyzzy''' is
empty-string: 	''
quoted-string:	'xyzzy'
empty-string:	''

I recall having an earlyer attemt at a languemodule which was smarter in
the way it parsed python, though it never worked well with bbedeit.

I may have relased this prematurely, but I've been using it for some time
and I wasn't sure when I'd be able to get back to it.

As it looks now, I can probably take a look at salvaging bits of a
smarter scanner, sometime in the next cople days.


>Also...any idea if the BBEdit language module SDK allows automatic indenting?
No.
You can turn auto-indent on or off for each file (3rd menu on window header),
but this just starts each line at the same indent as the one above,
the language module has no control over this


From hbcc100@york.ac.uk  Mon Mar  5 15:48:15 2001
From: hbcc100@york.ac.uk (hbcc100)
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 15:48:15 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] font
Message-ID: <3AA3B53F.9F3CDE7E@york.ac.uk>

Hello,

I am writing a program containing both Japanese and German on my Mac. To display
both languages correctly, I need to change the font. How can I do this? I have
been told that there might be a way of changing fonts using Fm (Font Manager).
But I can't find any documentation on this.
Can anyone help me?

Thank you

Heike


From smithsm@samuelsmith.org  Tue Mar  6 07:34:31 2001
From: smithsm@samuelsmith.org (Samuel Smith)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 02:34:31 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac version of gnuplot 3.7.1
In-Reply-To: <200007101810.OAA26444@post.larc.nasa.gov>
References: <200007101810.OAA26444@post.larc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <p05010409b6ca3fd8b1c3@[10.255.254.133]>

Version 3.7.1 of gnuplot for mac can be found at.



http://homepage.mac.com/gnuplot/downloads.html


>  > B) is the TK stuff needed to use Gnuplot, or is just what you used to
>>  create your "GUI-driven" solution.
>>
>
>You can drive Mac Gnuplot from python via the "standard" Gnuplot.py 
>module.  The module is available at
>http://monsoon.harvard.edu/~mhagger/Gnuplot/Gnuplot.html.  The latest 
>version includes support for the Mac.
>
>Also, the Mac gnuplot distribution contains a simple console written 
>in python.  You can obtain the Mac port of gnuplot at
>http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~schooley/gnuplot.html.  It looks like it 
>hasn't been updated in over 2 years.
>
>--
>    Tony Ingraldi
>    A.M.INGRALDI@LaRC.NASA.GOV
>    Phone : (757) 864-3039
>    Fax   : (757) 864-7892
>
>_______________________________________________
>Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
>http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig

-- 
**********************************************

Samuel M. Smith
   Alison Moore Smith
     Jessica
     Belinda
     Alana
     Monica
     Samuel (baby)

21271 Waycross Drive, Boca Raton  FL 33428

561-487-3823 (voice)
561-487-8930 (fax)
www.samuelsmith.org (web)

*********************************************


From sdm7g@minsky.med.virginia.edu  Tue Mar  6 17:28:45 2001
From: sdm7g@minsky.med.virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:28:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [OSX/Jython] reanimating Cocoa Nibs from Python (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.32.0103061220120.11096-100000@minsky.med.Virginia.EDU>


FYI: Obviously, this doesn't completely work, or I wouldn't
have been asking for help, but I'm forwarding a copy to
pythonmac-sig, just in case any of you want to try this at home!
( You obviously have to have build one of the Cocoa tutorials:
   TempConverter or CurrencyConverter, before you try this in
    jython. And if you try it from a file rather than interactively,
    you should wrap the NSAutorelease.push() in a try:except:
    block -- if you get the exception, then "print NSBundle.allFrameworks()"
    and call the push method again. I'm mystified as to why this
    happens. )


-- Steve.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:16:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven D. Majewski <sdm7g@minsky.med.virginia.edu>
To: macosx-dev@omnigroup.com
Subject: reanimating Cocoa Nibs from Python


Since creating windows and menu's programatically seems rather
pointless and tedious in Cocoa, I've been trying to figure out
how to get Python to load nibs from InterfaceBuilder.

(I've been experimenting with both the C based Python 2.1b1
 (which now builds out of the box on OSX -- unfortunately that's
 probably broken the Darwin build. ) <http://www.python.org/>
 plus  PyObjC  <http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyobjc/>, and
 the JVM based Jython <http://www.jython.org/>. I've made a
 bit more progress with Jython, so that's what's used in the
 examples below. BTW: you have to add /System/Library/Java to
 classpath for Jython to be able to load cocoa classes. )


Since IB doesn't yet support other languages like Python, I started
trying to load the Nibs from the CurrencyConverter and Java TempConverter
examples from the tutorials.


The following code snippet works (as far as it goes) for both
converter examples (depending on the path used):

--- Jython example:

from com.apple.cocoa.foundation import *
from com.apple.cocoa.application import *

tpath = '../TempConverter/build/TempConverter.app'
cpath = '../CurrencyConverter/build/CurrencyConverter.app'

pool = NSAutoreleasePool.push()
MyApp = NSApplication.sharedApplication()
bndl = NSBundle.bundleWithPath( cpath )
nib = NSApplication.loadNibFromBundle( bndl, 'MainMenu', MyApp )
MyApp.run()


---


loading the nibs generates the following error message, which is, I
guess, to be expected, since I'm loading the nibs from a different
program not containing the appropriate classes. However, all of the
default actions of the window work properly: it can be selected and
moved around, minimized, and the tab item selection works as it
should.


Mar 06 11:27:51 java[344] Unknown class `Converter' in nib file, using
`NSObjec\
t' instead.
Mar 06 11:27:52 java[344] Unknown class `ConverterController' in nib file,
usin\
g `NSObject' instead.
Mar 06 11:27:52 java[344] Could not connect the action convert: to target
of cl\
ass NSObject



The question is how to connect the actions to new targets (Python
methods) ?

NSNibConnector sounds like it may be what I want, but:
 The docs just say: "Description forthcoming", and
 I don't see a Java version -- only objective-c bindings.


-- Steve Majewski <sdm7g@Virginia.EDU>



( PS: Sometimes, but not always, and not initially, I get the following
  error from the NSAutorelease.push() call. Since it's a java.lang
  error, it's likely not a jython bug, but a JVM problem bubbling up.
  If I execute a statement like:  "print NSBundle.allFrameworks()",
  for example, I can retry the operation and it will succeed with
  no exceptions.   Any clues as to the cause ?

java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: push
        at com.apple.cocoa.foundation.NSAutoreleasePool.push(Native Method)
        at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Native Method)
        at org.python.core.PyReflectedFunction.__call__(PyReflectedFunction.java
:158)
        at org.python.core.PyReflectedFunction.__call__(PyReflectedFunction.java
:166)
        at org.python.core.PyObject.__call__(PyObject.java:260)
        at org.python.core.PyObject.invoke(PyObject.java:2092)

)

_______________________________________________
MacOSX-dev mailing list
MacOSX-dev@omnigroup.com
http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-dev



From jack@oratrix.nl  Tue Mar  6 23:14:39 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 00:14:39 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1b1 is ready!
Message-ID: <20010306231444.54F44EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Hello friends,
MacPython 2.1b1 is ready! It includes support for both Classic and
Carbon execution model, and goodies like Numeric and PIL are again
included. The easy install option will install classic only on
non-CarbonLib machines and both models on CarbonLib or OSX
machines. With custom install you can make your own choices.

This is also the first time I've tried an active installer, which will
only download the parts you need. I'm only advertising this here for
today, please try it soon so I can send the announcement out to a wider
audience. Oh yes: on OSX ConfigurePythonCarbon complains about no
pythoncore found", ignore it.

The active installer is in
http://www.cwi.nl/ftp/jack/python/mac/MacPython21b1active.bin and the
full installer is in
http://www.cwi.nl/ftp/jack/python/mac/MacPython21b1full.bin . HQX
files are also available.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | ++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/ ++++


From jwblist@olympus.net  Wed Mar  7 07:57:44 2001
From: jwblist@olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:57:44 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1b1 is ready!
In-Reply-To: <20010306231444.54F44EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010306231444.54F44EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <p05010400b6cb999db6f3@[207.149.192.229]>

At 0:14 +0100 3/7/01, Jack Jansen wrote:
>MacPython 2.1b1 is ready! It includes support for both Classic and
>Carbon execution model, and goodies like Numeric and PIL are again
>included. The easy install option will install classic only on
>non-CarbonLib machines and both models on CarbonLib or OSX
>machines. With custom install you can make your own choices.

Easy install using the active installer, on 8100 running Mac OS 9.1.  No
visible problems.

Gave interpreter 35,000K...only two tests failed, both on memory lack:
2 tests failed: test_longexp test_zlib

And one file name case issue (which you no doubt know about):

test___all__
blake:applications (mac os 9):python 2.1b1:lib:termios.py:7:
DeprecationWarning: the TERMIOS module is deprecated; please use termios
  DeprecationWarning)

Too late for anything else tonight.

  --John
-- 
John Baxter   jwblist@olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA


From tom@othermedia.com  Wed Mar  7 09:49:48 2001
From: tom@othermedia.com (tom smith)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 09:49:48 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1b1 is ready!
In-Reply-To: <20010306231444.54F44EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <B6CBB4BB.4C2C%tom@othermedia.com>

on 6/3/01 11:14 PM, Jack Jansen at jack@oratrix.nl wrote:

> Hello friends,
> MacPython 2.1b1 is ready! It includes support for both Classic and
> Carbon execution model, and goodies like Numeric and PIL are again
> included.

I tried installing it on my OSX parition, but because Classic is broken (I
upgraded my system to 9.1)  the VISE installer couldn't run.

The AppleMenu has a disabled "about" menu item and a funny x at the bottom,
with a divider right at the bottom.

I REALLY missed the syntax colouring I'd installed, can this be included in
the contrib folder so I don't have to remember where it is etc.
http://www.strout.net/python/mac/

Has anyone ever turned the python documentation into a AppleHelp file, so it
would be available from the help menu?

Whilst I'm here: in the browse locals bit of the software, when I'm looking
at variables that contain big chunks of text, I can't see the
contents...they're too big... could a new window be spawned if I
double-click the value

Has anyone ever created a variable watcher like HyperCard had?

cheers

tom



From tom@othermedia.com  Wed Mar  7 10:22:27 2001
From: tom@othermedia.com (tom smith)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 10:22:27 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1b1 is ready!
In-Reply-To: <20010306231444.54F44EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <B6CBBC63.4C2F%tom@othermedia.com>

I installed on my mac "system" volume.

Rebooted into x
Ran the PythonIDE > crashed
Ran the Interpreter > crashed
Ran ConfigurePythonCarbon > It complained about not being able to find the
libraries (they're in the same folder
Ran Interpreter > lots of errors had to kill
Ran EditPythonPrefs and selected system:Python 2.1b1 as python's home folder
Ran ConfigurePythonCarbon > still complained about not being able to find
the libraries (they're in the same folder
ran Interpreter > Worked!!!
ran PythonIDE > worked!!! with funny menus

...a funny glitch was the dock bar icon getting drawn at 0,0 rather than in
the Dock

It's great to see MacPython on OSX, I think I'd lose the will to live if I
had to use vi or emacs.






From jack@oratrix.nl  Wed Mar  7 11:02:07 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 12:02:07 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1b1 is ready!
In-Reply-To: Message by tom smith <tom@othermedia.com> ,
 Wed, 07 Mar 2001 09:49:48 +0000 , <B6CBB4BB.4C2C%tom@othermedia.com>
Message-ID: <20010307110207.55E4B373C95@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> I tried installing it on my OSX parition, but because Classic is broken (I
> upgraded my system to 9.1)  the VISE installer couldn't run.

This is strange. For me the installer works fine, and runs in native mode. I 
know because I've also broken my classic environment.

Have other people tried installing on OSX, and do they see the installer run 
in the Classic environment?

> The AppleMenu has a disabled "about" menu item and a funny x at the bottom,
> with a divider right at the bottom.
> 
> I REALLY missed the syntax colouring I'd installed, can this be included in
> the contrib folder so I don't have to remember where it is etc.
> http://www.strout.net/python/mac/

Could you pack this up (after asking Joe that it's OK) in a single folder with 
a README that I can simply drop into the Contrib folder? I'm really too busy 
to look at this...

> Has anyone ever turned the python documentation into a AppleHelp file, so it
> would be available from the help menu?

Yes, I would _really_ like this! If anyone has time to put into this: please 
do so!

> Whilst I'm here: in the browse locals bit of the software, when I'm looking
> at variables that contain big chunks of text, I can't see the
> contents...they're too big... could a new window be spawned if I
> double-click the value

Yes, this is a feature I would also like. Again, if I have to wait for myself 
to find the time it'll be a while, though, so contributions are gladly 
accepted.

> Has anyone ever created a variable watcher like HyperCard had?

This is difficult for the common case, as often you're not chaning the object 
but simply creating a new reference. For example:
>>> i = 3
>>> watch(i)
>>> i = 4
if you had a reference to the "i" object you would not see a change, the i=4 
assignment simply puts a new object reference into "i". To be useful you would 
really have to keep a reference to the scope where "i" is plus the name "i".

--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 






From jack@oratrix.nl  Wed Mar  7 11:06:27 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 12:06:27 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1b1 is ready!
In-Reply-To: Message by tom smith <tom@othermedia.com> ,
 Wed, 07 Mar 2001 10:22:27 +0000 , <B6CBBC63.4C2F%tom@othermedia.com>
Message-ID: <20010307110628.1E4F2373C95@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> I installed on my mac "system" volume.
> 
> Rebooted into x
> Ran the PythonIDE > crashed
> Ran the Interpreter > crashed
> Ran ConfigurePythonCarbon > It complained about not being able to find the
> libraries (they're in the same folder
> Ran Interpreter > lots of errors had to kill
> Ran EditPythonPrefs and selected system:Python 2.1b1 as python's home folder
> Ran ConfigurePythonCarbon > still complained about not being able to find
> the libraries (they're in the same folder
> ran Interpreter > Worked!!!
> ran PythonIDE > worked!!! with funny menus

This sounds like it could all be caused by installing Python twice without 
removing the Preferences file in between. I'm running into this the whole time 
myself, I'll have to think of a way to remove the preference files if you 
re-install.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From tom@othermedia.com  Wed Mar  7 11:37:42 2001
From: tom@othermedia.com (tom smith)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 11:37:42 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1b1 is ready!
In-Reply-To: <20010307110628.1E4F2373C95@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <B6CBCE06.4C3D%tom@othermedia.com>

on 7/3/01 11:06 AM, Jack Jansen at jack@oratrix.nl wrote:

> I'm running into this the whole time
> myself, I'll have to think of a way to remove the preference files if you
> re-install.

I looked for my preference file but couldn't find it anywhere, where is it?



From afonso@mac.com  Wed Mar  7 13:07:09 2001
From: afonso@mac.com (Afonso Salcedo)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 13:07:09 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help: extension modules and sigtools
Message-ID: <B6CBE2FC.58F%afonso@mac.com>

I've been trying to compile the sigtools module
(http://pylab.sourceforge.net/packages/signaltools-0.5.3.tar.gz) on the Mac
to use on my final year undergraduate course project.

I've been reading the whole archive for days now, and doing everything
already told on how to compile modules using codewarrior.

I have everything named correctly and all the settings changed as stated
before:

 sigtoolsmodule.c
 sigtools.h
 sigtoolsmodule.prj.exp
 sigtools.prj
 pythoncore

Etc etc...

Initsigtools is the initialization function and is correctly stated in the
.exp file.

I still get the irritating "Import error: initsigtools: the specified symbol
was not found"...

I'm completely stuck on this one and as I really need this module to work on
the mac (one of my objectives is to show platform-independency with python,
numpy and pil), and for obvious reasons I need to finish the project asap ;)

I would be extremely greatful if someone could shed some light on this to me
:))

Thanks in advance,
Afonso Salcedo



From billb@mousa.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar  7 13:06:37 2001
From: billb@mousa.demon.co.uk (Bill Bedford)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:06:37 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1b1 is ready!
In-Reply-To: <B6CBB4BB.4C2C%tom@othermedia.com>
References: <B6CBB4BB.4C2C%tom@othermedia.com>
Message-ID: <194620634009553430382@mousa.demon.co.uk>

At 9:49 am +0000 07/03/01, tom smith wrote:

>
>Has anyone ever turned the python documentation into a AppleHelp file, so it
>would be available from the help menu?
>

Yes, for Python 1.5.2, but there are issues with tabs in the html 
which the Help Viewer doesn't recognise. I have, though, a version 
which has the Mac Library and the Mac Tutorial.

-- 
Bill Bedford

He was said to have the body of a twenty-five year old, although no
one knew where he kept it.


From tmk@easynet.be  Wed Mar  7 16:42:04 2001
From: tmk@easynet.be (Tattoo Mabonzo K.)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:42:04 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1b1 is ready!
Message-ID: <200103071642.f27Gg6G01162@metis.microscript.be>

Yo,

Great work Jack! The install went perfectly well (Mac OS X PB with a =
working Mac OS 9.04 partition).

I ran "import test.autotest" and got the following results:

103 tests OK.=0D28 tests skipped: test_al test_bsddb test_cd test_cl =
test_crypt test_dbm test_dl test_fcntl test_fork1 test_gc test_gl =
test_grp test_imgfile test_largefile test_linuxaudiodev test_mmap =
test_nis test_openpty test_poll test_popen2 test_pty test_pwd =
test_signal test_sunaudiodev test_sundry test_timing test_winreg =
test_winsound=0D

So no failed test due to memory size problems here :-).

One question though. Jack, do you forsee that the problem where Python =
consumes HUGE amounts of processor cycle will be fixed for the final =
release? This is a real concern AFAIC.=20

=3D tmk =3D

PS: I'm getting a bunch of:

--- error msg
AEProcessAppleEvent error:=0DTraceback (most recent call last):=0D  File =
"mac os x:users:public:python 2.1b1:mac:lib:FrameWork.py", line 387, in =
do_kHighLevelEvent=0D    AEProcessAppleEvent(event)=0DMac OS Error: =
(-1708, 'the AppleEvent was not handled by any handler')=0D
On Wednesday, March 7, 2001, at 12:14 AM, Jack Jansen wrote:
--- end

everytime I click on the running IDE icon in the dock.


> Hello friends,=20
> MacPython 2.1b1 is ready! It includes support for both Classic and=20
> Carbon execution model, and goodies like Numeric and PIL are again=20
> included. The easy install option will install classic only on=20
> non-CarbonLib machines and both models on CarbonLib or OSX=20
> machines. With custom install you can make your own choices.=20
> =20
> This is also the first time I've tried an active installer, which will=20=

> only download the parts you need. I'm only advertising this here for=20=

> today, please try it soon so I can send the announcement out to a =
wider=20
> audience. Oh yes: on OSX ConfigurePythonCarbon complains about no=20
> pythoncore found", ignore it.=20
> =20
> The active installer is in=20
> http://www.cwi.nl/ftp/jack/python/mac/MacPython21b1active.bin and the=20=

> full installer is in=20
> http://www.cwi.nl/ftp/jack/python/mac/MacPython21b1full.bin . HQX=20
> files are also available.=20
> --=20
> Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal =
++++=20
> Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your =
sig ++++=20
> www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | ++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/ ++++=20
> =20
> _______________________________________________=20
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org=20
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig=20
> =20
> =20


From owen@astro.washington.edu  Wed Mar  7 17:03:37 2001
From: owen@astro.washington.edu (Russell E Owen)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:03:37 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1b1 is ready!
In-Reply-To: <20010306231444.54F44EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010306231444.54F44EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <p05100102b6cc16ef89a1@[128.95.99.44]>

I tried the net installer and switched to another application while 
it was running. At some point my Mac stopped responding (pointer 
still moved, but clicks were ignored). I heard a beep around then, so 
perhaps the installer was trying to tell me something. After waiting 
10 minutes I did a forced exit and the installer quit and all was 
well. I forgot to check what state the installation was in, I just 
threw it away.

The full installer ran fine, though there's a fairly long pause when 
the Configure application launches before it starts building applets 
(this could lead one to fear the Mac is hung; if it's easy to add a 
dialog box that indicates activity, that might be nice).

Both classic and carbon environments run great on my G4 with MacOS 
9.1 and Carbon 1.2.5. I didn't actually run the full tests this time, 
just my own code. I will run the full tests if desired.

Tk apps have the usual known problems: cannot quit and file events 
broken. Any chance of adding these to the release notes? I have 
emailed a possible modified version of the release notes directly to 
Jack.

Thank you very much for getting it down to one interpreter 
application -- having the others around as files with funny types 
seems like an excellent solution!

-- Russell


From cbarker@jps.net  Wed Mar  7 18:28:13 2001
From: cbarker@jps.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 10:28:13 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] "Official" MacPython docs: HELP!!!!
References: <20010306231444.54F44EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <3AA67DBD.831D43FE@jps.net>

Hi all,

I just got a message from Fred Drake, the maintainer of the Python
documentation, about the MacPython doc. Some of you may recall that I
took on the project of updating the docs before the 2.0 release. I got
contributions from a number of folks, and some progress was made, but we
have a long way to go. Fred would really like to see doc filled in,
there are a lot of gaps.

I am willing to take on the job of coordinating everyone's efforts, and
putting it all together into the source LaTeX document. I do not,
however, have enough time to also do all the writing, and frankly, I am
unqualified to do a lot of it anyway.

Please, Please, Please, try to find a few hours to help out with this
project. A lot of information is already available in various READMEs
and html docs scattered about the MacPython distrobution, but it would
be great if those coule be updated and incorporated into the Offical
docs.

I think it would be a major benifit to the MacPython community to
improve this document. People coming to Python on the Mac for the first
time will see this doc first, and it could really help to get them
started, rather than give them the impression that the Mac is a second
class citizen in the Python world.

Please take a look at the doc at:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/mac/mac.html

The "Using Python on the Macintosh" Section really needs some beefing up
an filling in. Also the "Undocumented Modules" section needs to be
addressed. Another section I'd love to see is one on using Apple Events,
and OSA. I know there is some of this in the html docs with the distro,
could someone update that and contribute it? There are a whole lot of
other holes in the doc as well. If you have recently figured out how to
do something, please consider writing it up and sending it to me.

If everyone that has some MacPython expertise spent a few hours on this,
we could really improve it a lot.

Please send a note to this list if you intend to work on a section, so
that we can avoid duplication.

Another doc that really needs help (from a Mac perspective) is the
Extending and Embedding doc:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/ext.html

It has, as it's primary example, a simple function that calls the
"system" C function. this is obviously useless on the Mac. There are
also specific sections on how to set up and compile an extension in Unix
and Windows. We really need a section like that for the Mac. I hope
someone can find some time to write that up. It really only needs be a
couple of pages. 

The Doc is written in LaTeX, with a very specific style, so that it can
be easily converted into PDF and HTML form. If you are writing a small
section, you might as well just write it in plain text, and I'll put it
into the LaTeX doc. If you want to work on a larger section, you can get
the LaTeX source from the sourceforge CVS server, or I'll send it to you
if you like. Info about the LaTeX format can be found in:

http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/doc/doc.html


Thanks to any of you who have helped out in the past, and any that will
help out now.

-Chris

-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From csmith@barebones.com  Wed Mar  7 18:36:09 2001
From: csmith@barebones.com (Christian Smith)
Date: Wed,  7 Mar 2001 13:36:09 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Forwarded: Christian Smith: MacPython and BBEdit
In-Reply-To: <20010301231216.7CFBAEA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <20010307133610-r01010600-d255f117@204.107.232.107>

On Friday, March 2, 2001 at 0:12, jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen) wrote:

> Here is the message from BareBones that I referred to.

Jack, thanks for forwarding this over. I was swampped with a few other
issues and simply had not gotten to this. I'm subscribed to this list
now as well.

I wrote:

> Perhaps you or someone you know would be interested in doing a Python
> language module.

Thanks to Chris Stern we now have one of these. Thank you very much
Chris.

> Another issue which comes up occasionally is the ability for BBEdit to
> send data to MacPython for execution/checking (similar to what is
> currently available with MacPerl). This integration between BBEdit and
> MacPerl is handle by AppleEvents but there does not seem to be any
> sort of support for this in MacPython. I think that this is something
> which would greatly enhance the MacPython IDE and even better would be
> more general support for external editors.

I'd like to reaffirm that I think this would be a great deal for the
Python/Macintosh community. I anyone wants to tackle this I would be
more than happy to provide feedback and/or suggestions. 

-- 
Christian Smith  |  csmith@barebones.com  |  http://web.barebones.com

He who dies with the most friends... Is still dead!


From Mark@SplitSW.com  Thu Mar  8 02:22:36 2001
From: Mark@SplitSW.com (Mark Adler)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 18:22:36 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Interest In RAD for python?
Message-ID: <B6CC2CEC.696%Mark@SplitSW.com>

Hello Everyone,
    I am currently developing a RAD environment for Python called VPython.
It will have built in syntax coloring/auto indenting, drag and drop Tkinter
IDEs, module browser, class generators, and a slew of other features. I am
contimplating whether or not to charge for this when it is completed (a very
low amount I mean, like around 10-20). How many people would be interested
in something like this? And how many people would be willing to pay a low
shareware fee if there was one?

Sincerely,
Mark Adler
-- 
Mark Adler
Split Software
Homepage : http://www.splitsw.com
Order Page : http://order.kagi.com/?J1M
Email : Mark@SplitSW.com



From smithsm@adeptsystemsinc.com  Thu Mar  8 01:29:48 2001
From: smithsm@adeptsystemsinc.com (Samuel Smith)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:29:48 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Interest In RAD for python?
In-Reply-To: <B6CC2CEC.696%Mark@SplitSW.com>
References: <B6CC2CEC.696%Mark@SplitSW.com>
Message-ID: <p05010401b6cc8d7e4bfa@[10.255.254.133]>

>Hello Everyone,
>     I am currently developing a RAD environment for Python called VPython.
>It will have built in syntax coloring/auto indenting, drag and drop Tkinter
>IDEs, module browser, class generators, and a slew of other features. I am
>contimplating whether or not to charge for this when it is completed (a very
>low amount I mean, like around 10-20). How many people would be interested
>in something like this? And how many people would be willing to pay a low
>shareware fee if there was one?


There were three commercial IDE's for python announced at the Python 
conf this week. The prices I think were under $100 per seat. So not 
too expensive but still a lot more than $10-20 Shareware. My guess is 
the degree of interest would come down to price performance. 
Certainly everyone I know wants a good IDE for Python.

FYI the 3 are

PythonWorks by The Secret Labs
Komodo by ActiveState
Wing IDE by Archaeopteryx


>Sincerely,
>Mark Adler
>--
>Mark Adler
>Split Software
>Homepage : http://www.splitsw.com
>Order Page : http://order.kagi.com/?J1M
>Email : Mark@SplitSW.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig

-- 
**********************************************************

Adept Systems Incorporated

21271 Waycross Drive, Boca Raton Florida 33428 USA
1-561-487-6894 (voice)
1-561-487-8930 (fax)
1-561-487-1244 (engineering lab)
1-561-487-5394 (fax engineering lab)

adept@adeptsystemsinc.com (email)
http://www.adeptsystemsinc.com/ (web)


*********************************************************


From sdm7g@virginia.edu  Thu Mar  8 02:17:41 2001
From: sdm7g@virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 21:17:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Interest In RAD for python?
In-Reply-To: <p05010401b6cc8d7e4bfa@[10.255.254.133]>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0103072057260.523-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Samuel Smith wrote:
> 
> There were three commercial IDE's for python announced at the Python 
> conf this week. The prices I think were under $100 per seat. So not 
> too expensive but still a lot more than $10-20 Shareware. My guess is 
> the degree of interest would come down to price performance. 
> Certainly everyone I know wants a good IDE for Python.
> 
> FYI the 3 are
> 
> PythonWorks by The Secret Labs
> Komodo by ActiveState
> Wing IDE by Archaeopteryx

  Since this is on the pythonmac-sig mailing list, I'll mention
that Apple has stated their intention to eventually support
other languages with the developer tools on mac OSX ( ProjectBuilder
and InterfaceBuilder ). In reality, they are probably quite a 
way from shipping support for anything else like Python.  
  Currently, a lot of stuff needed to make it work for something
like Python is undocumented -- there are several class descriptions
that contain only "Description forthcoming"  under every method.  
  I was able to load and partially animate(*)  the Nib files from 
another project (written in objective-c or Java with ProjectBuilder/
InterfaceBuilder) from Jython. ( I haven't yet figured out how to
do it from CPython, but I'm close. ) [* "partially animate" means
that all of the default framework actions work except that there's
no menu displayed, and I haven't figured out how to bind the non-default
actions to python methods. (That's one of the "Description fortcoming"
parts of the documentation! ) ]  
  I haven't yet heard whether the development tools will be bundled
with the $129 OSX final release -- it was a separate CD but freely
downloadable for the public beta. I'm sure they will charge extra 
for a final tools CD, but I don't know if they will keep the free
download. 
  
-- Steve Majewski




From csmith@barebones.com  Thu Mar  8 02:28:34 2001
From: csmith@barebones.com (Christian Smith)
Date: Wed,  7 Mar 2001 21:28:34 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Interest In RAD for python?
In-Reply-To: <p05010401b6cc8d7e4bfa@[10.255.254.133]>
Message-ID: <20010307212836-r01010600-80600697@192.168.0.1>

On Wednesday, March 07, 2001 at 20:29, smithsm@adeptsystemsinc.com
(Samuel Smith) wrote:

> > I am currently developing a RAD environment for Python called
> > VPython.
> >It will have built in syntax coloring/auto indenting, drag and drop
> >Tkinter IDEs, module browser, class generators, and a slew of other
> >features. I am contimplating whether or not to charge for this when
> >it is completed (a very low amount I mean, like around 10-20). How
> >many people would be interested in something like this? And how many
> >people would be willing to pay a low shareware fee if there was one?
> 
> 
> There were three commercial IDE's for python announced at the Python
> conf this week. The prices I think were under $100 per seat. So not
> too expensive but still a lot more than $10-20 Shareware. My guess is
> the degree of interest would come down to price performance. Certainly
> everyone I know wants a good IDE for Python.

Of course all three of these are "multi-platform" but all of the
platforms are Windows or Unix/Linux :-)

Mark, I'm sure that there would be lots of interest in a commercial ID
for Python. Obviously I have ulterior motives for my next question but
I'll ask it anyway. What are your thoughts on providing support for
external editors as opposed to relying on a built in source editor.
Applications such as BBEdit will generally be able to provide a much
more powerfull editing enviroment than what you'll be able to provide
internally.

-- 
Christian Smith  |  csmith@barebones.com  |  http://web.barebones.com
PGP Fingerprint  -  60E5 2216 97D2 1D1A B923 F036 00A9 CEC0 D411 FA89


From chriss@dnastar.com  Thu Mar  8 06:56:06 2001
From: chriss@dnastar.com (Chris)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 00:56:06 -0600
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] BBEdit Python support
In-Reply-To: <p05010401b6c4938ce5d1@[198.150.22.77]>
References: <20010301231044.76DB3EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
 <p05010401b6c4938ce5d1@[198.150.22.77]>
Message-ID: <p05010400b6ccdb5e602f@[198.150.22.77]>

A new version of The Python Language module is up at
<http://homepage.mac.com/christopherstern/>
This version handels Triple-quoted strings correctly,
the old version did not.
Although this problem could not even be detected when looking at
some python files, it made others e.g. .py files with snipits of html
in them, extreamly ugly.





From tom@othermedia.com  Thu Mar  8 09:09:32 2001
From: tom@othermedia.com (tom smith)
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 09:09:32 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Interest In RAD for python?
In-Reply-To: <20010307212836-r01010600-80600697@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <B6CCFCCB.4D54%tom@othermedia.com>

> Mark, I'm sure that there would be lots of interest in a commercial ID
> for Python. Obviously I have ulterior motives for my next question but
> I'll ask it anyway. What are your thoughts on providing support for
> external editors as opposed to relying on a built in source editor.
> Applications such as BBEdit will generally be able to provide a much
> more powerfull editing enviroment than what you'll be able to provide
> internally.

I personally don't use BBEdit except when I have some hairy
search-n-replacing to do. BBEdit doesn't have the debugger macPython
has...and I haven't seen a debugger as good in any of the other IDEs. I
think the debugging aspect of macPython can still be improved on. I hate
that code-run-debug mentality...but that's another (prograph cpx related)
story.

But whilst we're speaking of IDEs...

Has anyone else tried the Black Adder IDE? That's got a Tk Gui builder
that's worth a look. (Win/Linux) Take a look at these screenshots...
http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder/screenshots.php3?dhtml_ok=1
Lots of great features, but isn't the design goofy?

I tried Komodo (Win/Linux) and I particularly liked the ability to roll
python files into a "project" that were accessible from tab items. (Even
though the projects themselves got corrupted).

PythonWin (Win) suggests/auto-completes function parameters, even from
different modules.

If you're thinking of developing a mac python IDE, why not extend the mac
pythonIDE? Features I'd love are a "code browser / project "
windoid..."intelligent" code (if I double-command-click a module name I go
there). Expandable /reducible code. A Tk gui builder.

Of course the most important thing an IDE needs is a groovy radical visual
identity and logo. In the 90s MetroWerks CodeWarrior blew Symantec out of
the water with that Black and Yellow design... great T-shirts!








From cbarker@jps.net  Thu Mar  8 18:05:53 2001
From: cbarker@jps.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 10:05:53 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Interest In RAD for python?
References: <B6CCFCCB.4D54%tom@othermedia.com>
Message-ID: <3AA7CA01.659F5763@jps.net>

There are quite few RADs either available or in process for Python, and
quite a few of these are "platform independent", but as someone pointed
out, that usually means various flavors of windows, and various flavors
of *nix.

So, while MacPython needs an RAD, what it really needs is not a platform
spoecific RAD, but a platform independent one. I think it would be  a
much better use of your time, and a greater contribution to the
Python/MacPython community to port one of the existing projects to the
Mac, rather than start a whole new one. The obvious candidates for this
are the ones already built on platform independent toolbox. The freeware
ones I know of are:

IDLE (based on tk)
Boa Constructor (based on wxWindows)

I think a couple of the commercial ones are tk based as well, so you
might want to get in touch with those companies, and see if they would
want to work with you on a Mac version.

For both IDLE and Boa Constructor, you don't need to work on the RAD/IDE
itself, but rather the toolbox it is based on. In either case, getting
one or both of these toolboxes running well on the Mac would be a GREAT
thing for MacPython, IDE/RAD aside.

tk mostly works on the Mac, so it should only take a little tweaking to
get it to work. That being said, I'd personally rather see wxPython
working on the Mac. wxPython is a wrapper around wxWindows, which does
have a Mac version, and both the main toolbox and the Mac port are under
active development. There are continual rumours about wxPython being
ported to the Mac, but nothing has been released yet. If someone were to
make a commitment to it, they would get a lot of support from the wxMac
developer, the wxPython developer, and the wxWindows developers as well.
The great thing about a wxMacPython port is that MacPython would get a
comprehensive application framework, and it would be cross platform to
boot! (not to mention BoaConstructor, and other wxPython based tools)

Please check out www.wxPython.org, www.wxWindows.org, and the associated
newsgroups for more info.

If you are set on a Mac only project, I agree with a previous poster:
work on adding to and improving the current MacIDE, it's really a pretty
nifty tool already.

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From owen@astro.washington.edu  Thu Mar  8 18:28:59 2001
From: owen@astro.washington.edu (Russell E Owen)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:28:59 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] More on the 2.1b1 active installer hang
In-Reply-To: <20010308105017.67158EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010308105017.67158EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <p05100103b6cd79598e83@[128.95.99.44]>

Jack asked for more info on the MacPython 2.1b1 active installer hang 
that I reported.

I just repeated the test.
- Deleted "System Folder:Preferences:Python:Python 2.1b1 Preferences"
- Downlaoded and unstuffed the active installer
- Started the download
- Switched into Eudora 5.1b1 and read email, but I made sure the 
progress dialog box of the python installer was almost entirely 
visible
- The installer finished downloading files (all indicators were that 
it was truly finished -- progress bar to the right, time remaining = 
0, all 128k or whatever of the 5th and last file transferred)
- My mac stopped responding to anything except mouse motion. No 
clicks, no typing.
- About five seconds later my Mac beeped
- I waited awhile, but nothing else happened
- I force-exited and it killed the installer

I then unpacked the installer again (since apparently the downloaded 
files go into the installer itself) and ran the installer. This time 
I ran it in the foreground and it ran to completion just fine. At the 
beep it put up the dialog saying it was done downloading and ready to 
install; apparently that's what it was trying to do last time when it 
hung.

I have repeated the first sequence (that hangs) several times, always 
with the same results.

I have also repeated it with BBEdit 6.0.2 as the foreground 
application (and Eudora not running). same results.

Finally a rebooted with MacOS 9.1 base extensions enabled (via 
Extension Manager) and repeated the test with BBEdit 6.0.2 as the 
foreground application. Same hang.


Can anybody else test this?

-- Russell



From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Mar  8 21:09:59 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 22:09:59 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1b1 is ready!
In-Reply-To: Message by Russell E Owen <owen@astro.washington.edu> ,
 Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:03:37 -0800 , <p05100102b6cc16ef89a1@[128.95.99.44]>
Message-ID: <20010308211004.E881FEA11E@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Russell E Owen <owen@astro.washington.edu> said:
> I tried the net installer and switched to another application while 
> it was running. At some point my Mac stopped responding (pointer 
> still moved, but clicks were ignored). I heard a beep around then, so 
> perhaps the installer was trying to tell me something. After waiting 
> 10 minutes I did a forced exit and the installer quit and all was 
> well. I forgot to check what state the installation was in, I just 
> threw it away.

I haven't a clue what the problem is here. I think I'll leave the
active installer in place for this beta, but if more problems like
this show up I'll dump it for the next release.

> The full installer ran fine, though there's a fairly long pause when 
> the Configure application launches before it starts building applets 
> (this could lead one to fear the Mac is hung; if it's easy to add a 
> dialog box that indicates activity, that might be nice).

This is a known problem with Installer Vise: it tells the Finder about 
the 2000 new files that are on your disk. In previous versions of Vise 
the machine appeared dead, but now they've somehow found a way to let
the finder do this "in the background". I'll see whether I can post a
dialog or something warning for this.

> Tk apps have the usual known problems: cannot quit and file events 
> broken.

Will do.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Mar  8 21:30:22 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 22:30:22 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1b1 is ready!
In-Reply-To: Message by "Tattoo Mabonzo K." <tmk@easynet.be> ,
 Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:42:04 +0100 , <200103071642.f27Gg6G01162@metis.microscript.be>
Message-ID: <20010308213028.22093EA11E@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, "Tattoo Mabonzo K." <tmk@easynet.be> said:
> One question though. Jack, do you forsee that the problem where Python =
> consumes HUGE amounts of processor cycle will be fixed for the final =
> release? This is a real concern AFAIC.=20

Ow, grmpf. I completely forgot about this one (that's what happens on
a fast machine:-). Yes, this has to be fixed, and actually I think
it's so important that I'll refrain from widely announcing this beta
until it is fixed.

> AEProcessAppleEvent error:=0DTraceback (most recent call last):=0D  File =
> "mac os x:users:public:python 2.1b1:mac:lib:FrameWork.py", line 387, in =
> do_kHighLevelEvent=0D    AEProcessAppleEvent(event)=0DMac OS Error: =
> (-1708, 'the AppleEvent was not handled by any handler')=0D
> On Wednesday, March 7, 2001, at 12:14 AM, Jack Jansen wrote:
> --- end
> 
> everytime I click on the running IDE icon in the dock.

Ah, that's the new "reopen" command. I'll add a handler.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From redbird@rbisland.cx  Fri Mar  9 01:44:50 2001
From: redbird@rbisland.cx (Gordon Worley)
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 20:44:50 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] "Official" MacPython docs: HELP!!!!
In-Reply-To: <3AA67DBD.831D43FE@jps.net>
References: <20010306231444.54F44EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
 <3AA67DBD.831D43FE@jps.net>
Message-ID: <f05001903b6cde2cbdb2f@[10.0.1.4]>

At 10:28 AM -0800 3/7/01, Chris Barker wrote:
>The "Using Python on the Macintosh" Section really needs some beefing up
>an filling in. Also the "Undocumented Modules" section needs to be
>addressed. Another section I'd love to see is one on using Apple Events,
>and OSA. I know there is some of this in the html docs with the distro,
>could someone update that and contribute it? There are a whole lot of
>other holes in the doc as well. If you have recently figured out how to
>do something, please consider writing it up and sending it to me.

Okay, documentation in the form of reference can be found at 
<http://www.nevada.edu/~cwebster/Python/WWidgets/Wreference.html>. 
This is pretty good, but some of the stuff should be left out that 
doesn't seem to work, like movie.  I realize that this may be a lot 
for you to convert to LaTeX, but I don't have the time to learn it 
and convert HTML to it.  Sorry.

I'll take care of the Mac OS X section.  It's pretty short right now, 
so I'll go back and flesh it out with some links and more specifics. 
Okay, I guess I will go learn some LaTeX, but I still don't have time 
to convert the long W document right now.

Also, I'll write a blurb on the module browser for the IDE, since 
that deserves some mention since it is a very useful tool that the 
newbie might miss.  I don't have much experience with the debugger, 
but someone definately needs to write up or converte existing 
documentation about this.

Wait, now that I think about it, why not extend the W section a 
little and include a link to the above.  Okay, here's the plan:  I'll 
flesh out the W section to explain more about what it is and why 
someone might use it.  Then, I'll stick in the link and write "here's 
this nice link, use it if you actually want to do something with W. 
Have fun! :-)".

To recap, here are the sections I'm working on to avoid duplication: 
Mac OS X, IDE mdoule browser, and W.  It's a small contribution, but 
every little bit helps.  :-)
-- 
Gordon Worley
http://www.rbisland.cx/
mailto:redbird@rbisland.cx
PGP Fingerprint:  C462 FA84 B811 3501 9010  20D2 6EF3 77F7 BBD3 B003


From Mark@SplitSW.com  Fri Mar  9 04:58:07 2001
From: Mark@SplitSW.com (Mark Adler)
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 20:58:07 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Screenshots of VisPy
Message-ID: <B6CDA2DF.6CF%Mark@SplitSW.com>

I have just posted a screenshot of the RAD IDE on my website. You have to
download it, in pict format, but it shows the IDE in action. Better pictures
will come as the  IDE gets better. It has been renamed VisPy because of the
already existing VPython.
Sincerely,
Mark Adler
-- 
Mark Adler
Split Software
Homepage : http://www.splitsw.com
Order Page : http://order.kagi.com/?J1M
Email : Mark@SplitSW.com



From jack@oratrix.nl  Fri Mar  9 09:02:13 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 10:02:13 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help: extension modules and sigtools
In-Reply-To: Message by Afonso Salcedo <afonso@mac.com> ,
 Wed, 07 Mar 2001 13:07:09 +0000 , <B6CBE2FC.58F%afonso@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20010309090214.5594B373C95@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> I've been trying to compile the sigtools module
> (http://pylab.sourceforge.net/packages/signaltools-0.5.3.tar.gz) on the Mac
> to use on my final year undergraduate course project.
> 
> I've been reading the whole archive for days now, and doing everything
> already told on how to compile modules using codewarrior.
> 
> I have everything named correctly and all the settings changed as stated
> before:
> 
>  sigtoolsmodule.c
>  sigtools.h
>  sigtoolsmodule.prj.exp
>  sigtools.prj
>  pythoncore
> 
> Etc etc...
> 
> Initsigtools is the initialization function and is correctly stated in the
> .exp file.
> 
> I still get the irritating "Import error: initsigtools: the specified symbol
> was not found"...

You did set the "Use .exp file" in the project settings->PPC PEF panel?
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From jack@oratrix.nl  Fri Mar  9 09:31:24 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 10:31:24 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Interest In RAD for python?
In-Reply-To: Message by Chris Barker <cbarker@jps.net> ,
 Thu, 08 Mar 2001 10:05:53 -0800 , <3AA7CA01.659F5763@jps.net>
Message-ID: <20010309093144.2E10E373C95@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> If you are set on a Mac only project, I agree with a previous poster:
> work on adding to and improving the current MacIDE, it's really a pretty
> nifty tool already.

A GUI-builder is the one thing that I would really really like. RealBasic took 
the Mac world by storm, and I think their guibuilder was largely responsible.

I get sick and tired of it that for every single dialog I have to go into 
Resorcerer or ResEdit, twiddle the control, write down the item numbers, back 
to BBedit, write custom code, etc etc etc.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From fgranger@altern.org  Fri Mar  9 13:00:09 2001
From: fgranger@altern.org (Francois Granger)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:00:09 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Screenshots of VisPy
In-Reply-To: <B6CDA2DF.6CF%Mark@SplitSW.com>
References: <B6CDA2DF.6CF%Mark@SplitSW.com>
Message-ID: <v0421010ab6ce83e52a22@[213.228.24.170]>

At 20:58 -0800 on 8/03/01, in message [Pythonmac-SIG] Screenshots of 
VisPy, you wrote:
>I have just posted a screenshot of the RAD IDE on my website. You have to
>download it, in pict format, but it shows the IDE in action. Better pictures
>will come as the  IDE gets better. It has been renamed VisPy because of the
>already existing VPython.

I can't wait to test it.

UI developpment with MacPython is really the "parent pauvre" compare 
to other developpment languages.

-- 
"Faites des phrases courtes. Un sujet, un verbe, un complément. Quand 
vous voudrez ajouter un adjectif, vous viendrez me voir." - Georges 
Clemenceau, 1841-1929, médecin et homme politique français. Consignes 
aux journalistes de "L'Aurore". d'après 
<http://www.sit.ulaval.ca/pagespersonnelles/phf/pensee.html> 


From macloup@yahoo.com  Fri Mar  9 20:29:46 2001
From: macloup@yahoo.com (Michel Belisle)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 12:29:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Tkinter on MacOS X
Message-ID: <20010309202946.11091.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com>

Sorry, I am new to the list. Is there anybody out
there interested in porting Tkinter to MacOS X? Either
Carbon or Cocoa could be use. I don't personally care.

I find this to be quite desirable and I am willing to
help.

Thanks.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/


From jack@oratrix.nl  Fri Mar  9 21:26:57 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 22:26:57 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Tkinter on MacOS X
In-Reply-To: Message by Michel Belisle <macloup@yahoo.com> ,
 Fri, 9 Mar 2001 12:29:46 -0800 (PST) , <20010309202946.11091.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010309212702.E6443EA11E@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Michel Belisle <macloup@yahoo.com> said:
> Sorry, I am new to the list. Is there anybody out
> there interested in porting Tkinter to MacOS X? Either
> Carbon or Cocoa could be use. I don't personally care.

The first step needed is that Tcl/Tk is ported to MacOSX. There's a
sourceforge mailing list on Mac Tcl/Tk, tcl-mac@lists.sourceforge.net, 
you could try asking there how things are going at that front.

Once Tcl/Tk runs on MacOSX the Tkinter port shouldn't be that much work.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Fri Mar  9 22:18:56 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 23:18:56 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Tkinter on MacOS X
In-Reply-To: Message by Mark Adler <Mark@SplitSW.com> ,
 Fri, 09 Mar 2001 17:05:50 -0800 , <B6CEBDED.6E3%Mark@SplitSW.com>
Message-ID: <20010309221901.95E88EA11E@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Mark Adler <Mark@SplitSW.com> said:
> > Once Tcl/Tk runs on MacOSX the Tkinter port shouldn't be that much work.
> 
> What will be used for GUIs if Tkinter is never ported?

Standard MacOS is one option. I've tried to beat Tkinter into
submission for a couple of years, but I've given up. On unix it could
be called acceptable because GUI standard on unix are very low (or, at 
least, used to be very low, they're getting better with gtk and
qt). On the Mac Tk is completely unacceptible, however. Everything is
done completely different from the way things are done on the
mac. Moreover, Tk is rather buggy on the Mac. Or, at least,
Tk+Tkinter+Python is. And it's slow as molasses.

I keep hearing good things about wxWindows, who have apparently
learned from the Tk mistakes, but so far I haven't seen any working
code. 
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From cbarker@jps.net  Fri Mar  9 22:41:34 2001
From: cbarker@jps.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 14:41:34 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] "Official" MacPython docs: HELP!!!!
References: <20010306231444.54F44EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
 <3AA67DBD.831D43FE@jps.net> <f05001903b6cde2cbdb2f@[10.0.1.4]>
Message-ID: <3AA95C1E.50ACBB0@jps.net>

Gordon Worley wrote:

> Okay, documentation in the form of reference can be found at
> <http://www.nevada.edu/~cwebster/Python/WWidgets/Wreference.html>.
> This is pretty good, but some of the stuff should be left out that
> doesn't seem to work, like movie.  I realize that this may be a lot
> for you to convert to LaTeX, but I don't have the time to learn it
> and convert HTML to it.  Sorry.

I'll see what I can do. Was the doc originally written in HTML, or was
it converted from something else that might be easier to deal with?
Also, were you offering to trim out the stuff that doesn't seem to work.
I really don't have time to test it all myself.

> I'll take care of the Mac OS X section.  It's pretty short right now,
> so I'll go back and flesh it out with some links and more specifics.

Excelent!!!

> Okay, I guess I will go learn some LaTeX, 

I personlly think LaTeX is wonderful, and the Python docs formats are a
pretty nice way to construct Python docs. I will warn you , however,
that the system is all set up to work well on a *nix system, and may
take a little tweaking to get to work on the Mac. I've been using my
Linux box to work on the doc. That being said, it would probably be
pretty easy to get the LaTeX itself working, and I'll worry about
getting it to fit into the whole Python-doc build system.

> Also, I'll write a blurb on the module browser for the IDE, since
> that deserves some mention since it is a very useful tool that the
> newbie might miss.  I don't have much experience with the debugger,
> but someone definately needs to write up or converte existing
> documentation about this.

Great!! Docs on the IDE would be wonderfull!! Please someonr volunteer
to do more.

> Wait, now that I think about it, why not extend the W section a
> little and include a link to the above.  Okay, here's the plan:  I'll
> flesh out the W section to explain more about what it is and why
> someone might use it.  Then, I'll stick in the link and write "here's
> this nice link, use it if you actually want to do something with W.
> Have fun! :-)".

That is a good option, particularly if I don't have time to do all that
LaTeX conversion, so let's start with that.

> To recap, here are the sections I'm working on to avoid duplication:
> Mac OS X, IDE mdoule browser, and W.  It's a small contribution, but
> every little bit helps.  :-)

It certainly does. Anyone else?


-Chris

-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From cbarker@jps.net  Fri Mar  9 22:48:26 2001
From: cbarker@jps.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 14:48:26 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Tkinter on MacOS X
References: <20010309221901.95E88EA11E@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <3AA95DBA.14662758@jps.net>

Jack Jansen wrote:

> I keep hearing good things about wxWindows, who have apparently
> learned from the Tk mistakes, but so far I haven't seen any working
> code.

No one has put out any working wxPython stuff on the Mac, yet, but there
are a at least a few people doing real things with wxWindows in C++ on
the Mac. Have you tried any of the C++ stuff? I'd be interesed to see
how it works.

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From cwebster@nevada.edu  Fri Mar  9 23:14:00 2001
From: cwebster@nevada.edu (Corran Webster)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:14:00 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] "Official" MacPython docs: HELP!!!!
In-Reply-To: <3AA95C1E.50ACBB0@jps.net>
References: <20010306231444.54F44EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
 <3AA67DBD.831D43FE@jps.net> <f05001903b6cde2cbdb2f@[10.0.1.4]>
 <3AA95C1E.50ACBB0@jps.net>
Message-ID: <f05001901b6cf12269ec4@[192.168.0.4]>

At 2:41 PM -0800 9/3/01, Chris Barker wrote:
>Gordon Worley wrote:
>
>>  Okay, documentation in the form of reference can be found at
>>  <http://www.nevada.edu/~cwebster/Python/WWidgets/Wreference.html>.
>>  This is pretty good, but some of the stuff should be left out that
>>  doesn't seem to work, like movie.  I realize that this may be a lot
>>  for you to convert to LaTeX, but I don't have the time to learn it
>>  and convert HTML to it.  Sorry.
>
>I'll see what I can do. Was the doc originally written in HTML, or was
>it converted from something else that might be easier to deal with?
>Also, were you offering to trim out the stuff that doesn't seem to work.
>I really don't have time to test it all myself.

I originally wrote it in HTML - although I'm quite fluent in LaTeX I 
didn't have a platform where I could run LaTeX2html at the time that 
I wrote it.

The documentation was written by reading the source, rather than 
actually trying stuff, so I'm not entirely sure what does and doesn't 
work, unfortunately.  Let me know what's broken and I'll delete it, 
or at least make a note that it doesn't seem to be functional. The 
docs are also incomplete in the Reference section because I ran out 
of available time and I haven't had a chance to get back to it.  If 
anyone wants to fill in some blanks, I'll gladly incorporate them.

>  > Okay, I guess I will go learn some LaTeX,
>
>I personlly think LaTeX is wonderful, and the Python docs formats are a
>pretty nice way to construct Python docs. I will warn you , however,
>that the system is all set up to work well on a *nix system, and may
>take a little tweaking to get to work on the Mac.

Not much chance of getting it to work on clasic Mac OS as long as it 
relies on LaTeX2html (which it did when I was writing the W docs). 
LaTeX2html is a heavily Unix-dependent system - basically a bunch of 
TeX and image processing stuff glued together with Perl, as I 
understand.

It may work on OS X, however.

>  > Wait, now that I think about it, why not extend the W section a
>>  little and include a link to the above.  Okay, here's the plan:  I'll
>>  flesh out the W section to explain more about what it is and why
>>  someone might use it.  Then, I'll stick in the link and write "here's
>>  this nice link, use it if you actually want to do something with W.
>>  Have fun! :-)".
>
>That is a good option, particularly if I don't have time to do all that
>LaTeX conversion, so let's start with that.

I'm comfortable with that option.  Now that I have a moderately 
powerful Linux box available, I may get around to LaTeXifying it at 
some point, but probably not anytime this semester.

>  > To recap, here are the sections I'm working on to avoid duplication:
>>  Mac OS X, IDE mdoule browser, and W.  It's a small contribution, but
>>  every little bit helps.  :-)
>
>It certainly does. Anyone else?

The lack of mac documentation was why I originally wrote the W 
documentation.  I'd be willing to help, but it may be some time 
before I have large chunks of time to devote to the project.

Regards,
Corran



From robin@alldunn.com  Sat Mar 10 00:33:42 2001
From: robin@alldunn.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 16:33:42 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] wxPython for the Mac
Message-ID: <07a301c0a8f9$c3279c50$95feff0a@Rogue>

> I keep hearing good things about wxWindows, who have apparently
> learned from the Tk mistakes, but so far I haven't seen any working
> code.

According to the messages quoted below, it apparently exists in some form,
but I havn't seen any code yet either.

Interested parties could follow up with Stefan to get more info.  I would
really appreciate it if someone who is an active MacPython user could pick
this up and run with it.  I just havn't had the time to get up to speed on
programming for the Mac to be able to do it myself.

--
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
robin@AllDunn.com       Java give you jitters?
http://wxPython.org      Relax with wxPython!



----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Csomor" <csomor@advancedconcepts.ch>
To: <wxwindows-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 10:25 PM
Subject: [wx-users] RE:wxPython for Mac?


> > Anyone working on a wxPython for Macintosh?
> >
> > Philippe de Rochambeau
>
> Milan Brunclik from Barco has done it and promised to send me the sources,
> I'll hope to have things like this and OpenGL back in the archives by
> christmas
>
> Stefan
>



----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Csomor" <csomor@advancedconcepts.ch>
To: <wxwindows-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:09 AM
Subject: RE: [wx-dev] State of wxPython on Mac


>
> >
> > what is the current state of wxPython on the Mac. I have
> > heard rumours about existing patches sent somewhere, but
> > nothing beyond that,
> >
>
> Hi I've received the sources from Milan, and now that I've my PowerBook
> working again I will try to integrate these as well as some OpenGL code
I've
> received, btw. I repeat my words of caution for CW 6 you simply cannot
build
> wxMac apps that work right now, not even if you turn off all
optimizations.
> We switch back to CW 5.3 for everything.
>
> Stefan
>
>






From chriss@dnastar.com  Sat Mar 10 04:31:26 2001
From: chriss@dnastar.com (Christopher Stern)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:31:26 -0600
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] cvs server (partly) down?
Message-ID: <p05010401b6cf5c7d35d8@[198.150.22.77]>

pythoncvs.oratrix.nl consitantly refuses to update certain directories.

>cvs server: cannot open directory 
>/hosts/mm/CVSREMOTE/lib-src/GUSI2/DCon: Value too large for defined 
>data type
>cvs server: skipping directory DCon
>cvs server: cannot open directory 
>/hosts/mm/CVSREMOTE/lib-src/GUSI2/include/arpa: Value too large for 
>defined data type
>cvs server: skipping directory include/arpa
>cvs server: cannot open directory 
>/hosts/mm/CVSREMOTE/lib-src/GUSI2/include/net: Value too large for 
>defined data type

Is this on my end or dose everyone have this problem?


From jack@oratrix.nl  Sat Mar 10 13:10:44 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 14:10:44 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] cvs server (partly) down?
In-Reply-To: Message by Christopher Stern <chriss@dnastar.com> ,
 Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:31:26 -0600 , <p05010401b6cf5c7d35d8@[198.150.22.77]>
Message-ID: <20010310131049.59461EA11E@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Christopher Stern <chriss@dnastar.com> said:
> pythoncvs.oratrix.nl consitantly refuses to update certain directories.
> 
> >cvs server: cannot open directory 
> >/hosts/mm/CVSREMOTE/lib-src/GUSI2/DCon: Value too large for defined 

This problem should have been solved on wednesday. Is this report from 
before then, or are you still having this problem? I haven't seen it
since then...
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From richard@blumberg.org  Sat Mar 10 14:29:26 2001
From: richard@blumberg.org (Richard Blumberg)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 09:29:26 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Screenshots of VisPy
In-Reply-To: <B6CDA2DF.6CF%Mark@SplitSW.com>
References: <B6CDA2DF.6CF%Mark@SplitSW.com>
Message-ID: <a05010408b6cfea6cc96a@[64.253.104.20]>

Looks very slick!

You get it working, price it reasonably (<$100), and I'll buy it. If 
you want beta testers, I'm ready.

Richard


At 8:58 PM -0800 3/8/01, Mark Adler wrote:
>I have just posted a screenshot of the RAD IDE on my website. You have to
>download it, in pict format, but it shows the IDE in action. Better pictures
>will come as the  IDE gets better. It has been renamed VisPy because of the
>already existing VPython.
>Sincerely,
>Mark Adler
>--
>Mark Adler
>Split Software
>Homepage : http://www.splitsw.com
>Order Page : http://order.kagi.com/?J1M
>Email : Mark@SplitSW.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig



From fgranger@altern.org  Sat Mar 10 18:20:26 2001
From: fgranger@altern.org (Francois Granger)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 19:20:26 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] For french pithoneers
In-Reply-To: <B6C15C98.5B0F%fgranger@altern.org>
References: <B6C15C98.5B0F%fgranger@altern.org>
Message-ID: <v04210110b6d020450e8d@[213.228.24.170]>

Sorry for this message in french. There is a UsenetFR vote on 
creating the newsgroup fr.comp.lang.python. And I feel important to 
get as many french pytoneer as possible to vote for this.


Le premier appel à voter pour la création d'un groupe de discussion 
sur Python est paru.

Allez dans  et cherchez le message dont le sujet est :
[AAV 1] Creation de fr.comp.lang.python (non-modere)
Message-ID: <1epxces.18yyneu19bvnu0N%massiot@via.ecp.fr>

et votez ;-)


PS: "Votez OUI, votez NON mais votez"
PPS: "Je vous parle d'un temps / Que les moins de vingt ans / Ne 
peuvent pas connaitre..."

;-)
-- 
"Faites des phrases courtes. Un sujet, un verbe, un complément. Quand 
vous voudrez ajouter un adjectif, vous viendrez me voir." - Georges 
Clemenceau, 1841-1929, médecin et homme politique français. Consignes 
aux journalistes de "L'Aurore". d'après 
<http://www.sit.ulaval.ca/pagespersonnelles/phf/pensee.html> 


From dante@oz.net  Sat Mar 10 20:42:20 2001
From: dante@oz.net (Michael Esveldt)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 12:42:20 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Getting/Setting Finder Label
Message-ID: <a05010400b6d0418bf253@[216.39.162.232]>

I have the need to set the finder label of a large number of files 
all at once. I can do this with aetools but it's not very fast. Does 
anyone have any ideas about how I could speed something like this up?

Thanks,
Michael


From billb@mousa.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 11 01:23:34 2001
From: billb@mousa.demon.co.uk (Bill Bedford)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 01:23:34 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Getting/Setting Finder Label
In-Reply-To: <a05010400b6d0418bf253@[216.39.162.232]>
References: <a05010400b6d0418bf253@[216.39.162.232]>
Message-ID: <926108008765068441672@mousa.demon.co.uk>

At 12:42 pm -0800 10/03/01, Michael Esveldt wrote:

>I have the need to set the finder label of a large number of files 
>all at once. I can do this with aetools but it's not very fast. Does 
>anyone have any ideas about how I could speed something like this up?

The appleevent 'set' will take a list of objects, and this will be 
very much faster than letting python process the list

-- 
Bill Bedford

"He's a man of few words, and he doesn't know what either of them
mean," people said, but not when he was within hearing.


From redbird@rbisland.cx  Sun Mar 11 19:54:07 2001
From: redbird@rbisland.cx (Gordon Worley)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 14:54:07 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] W section
Message-ID: <f05001900b6d186a1e763@[10.0.1.8]>

Okay, here is what I have for the W section.  Hopefully, I've done 
things correctly with LaTeX.  Also, let me know if I've made any 
factual errors.

-----

\sectionauthor {Gordon Worley}{redbird@rbisland.cx}

\section{\module{W} ---
          Mac only interface building library}

\declaremodule{extension}{W}
   \platform{Mac}
\modulesynopsis{Mac only interface building library.}
\moduleauthor{Just van Rossum}{just@letterror.com}

W is an interface building module for MacPython applications, 
applets, and IDE scripts.  It was originally designed for use in the 
IDE, but is able to be used for building the interfaces to other 
programs.  It also provides an application wrapper which makes it 
easier to write applications than getting down and dirty with 
Macintosh libraries.

Mainly, W provides all of the functionality that would be found in 
the average Mac application and then some.  It includes special list 
types, tiny pop up menus, an easier event model, and layout managers 
that make interface design easier.  All of W is written in Python and 
all of the source code is accessible, so it is easy to make changes 
to suit a particular application's needs.

In many ways, W is still under development and documented fairly 
well.  A reference to it can be found at \url 
{http://www.nevada.edu/%7ecwebster/Python/WWidgets/}, with tutorials 
and examples to help you get started.

-----

Also, here is a more general question:  Why is W still in the IDE 
folder?  Why not move it to Mac:Lib:W and then all scripts can access 
it equally?

Also, maybe this was mentioned somewhere and I missed it, but os.path 
is gone.  I know that macpath is what I want to link to, but there is 
no os.path to import.  While I can rewrite my applications and 
scripts to use macpath when I know that they will run just on the 
Mac, anything meant to be crossplatform is going to break one way or 
the other.  I'm pretty sure we just need a file called os.path that 
has the one line of code 'from macpath import *'.
-- 
Gordon Worley
http://www.rbisland.cx/
mailto:redbird@rbisland.cx
PGP Fingerprint:  C462 FA84 B811 3501 9010  20D2 6EF3 77F7 BBD3 B003


From jack@oratrix.nl  Sun Mar 11 22:52:05 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 23:52:05 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] W section
In-Reply-To: Message by Gordon Worley <redbird@rbisland.cx> ,
 Sun, 11 Mar 2001 14:54:07 -0500 , <f05001900b6d186a1e763@[10.0.1.8]>
Message-ID: <20010311225210.79E9BEA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Gordon Worley <redbird@rbisland.cx> said:

> 
> Also, maybe this was mentioned somewhere and I missed it, but os.path 
> is gone.  I know that macpath is what I want to link to, but there is 
> no os.path to import.

You should simply import os and the use os.path. Or is that what
you're doing (I got the impression that you did "import os.path",
which isn't correct, as os isn't a package) and did you come across a
genuine bug? In that case I'd like to see the "verbose import" output...
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From redbird@rbisland.cx  Sun Mar 11 23:54:28 2001
From: redbird@rbisland.cx (Gordon Worley)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 18:54:28 -0500
Subject: import os.path error (was Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] W section)
In-Reply-To: <20010311225210.79E9BEA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010311225210.79E9BEA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <f05001900b6d1c024b0c4@[10.0.1.8]>

At 11:52 PM +0100 3/11/01, Jack Jansen wrote:
>You should simply import os and the use os.path. Or is that what
>you're doing (I got the impression that you did "import os.path",
>which isn't correct, as os isn't a package) and did you come across a
>genuine bug? In that case I'd like to see the "verbose import" output...

Okay, guess I learn something new all of the time.  import os.path 
seemed to have worked fine in the past and I've seen it done in other 
Python scripts, but I guess the latest updates changed this.
-- 
Gordon Worley
http://www.rbisland.cx/
mailto:redbird@rbisland.cx
PGP Fingerprint:  C462 FA84 B811 3501 9010  20D2 6EF3 77F7 BBD3 B003


From richard@blumberg.org  Mon Mar 12 16:00:21 2001
From: richard@blumberg.org (Richard Blumberg)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:00:21 -0500
Subject: import os.path error (was Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] W section)
In-Reply-To: <f05001900b6d1c024b0c4@[10.0.1.8]>
References: <20010311225210.79E9BEA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
 <f05001900b6d1c024b0c4@[10.0.1.8]>
Message-ID: <a05010407b6d2a18434b1@[64.253.104.20]>

FWIW...

'import os.path' works the same on my Mac and on my webserver 
(running freeBSD, python v. 2.0). That is, it imports the os module, 
entire, including the path module contained within the os module. In 
other words, on both platforms, 'import os' and 'import os.path' seem 
to have identical results. Not quite what I'd have expected, but not 
inconsistent between platforms.

Richard



At 6:54 PM -0500 3/11/01, Gordon Worley wrote:
>At 11:52 PM +0100 3/11/01, Jack Jansen wrote:
>>You should simply import os and the use os.path. Or is that what
>>you're doing (I got the impression that you did "import os.path",
>>which isn't correct, as os isn't a package) and did you come across a
>>genuine bug? In that case I'd like to see the "verbose import" output...
>
>Okay, guess I learn something new all of the time.  import os.path 
>seemed to have worked fine in the past and I've seen it done in 
>other Python scripts, but I guess the latest updates changed this.
>--
>Gordon Worley
>http://www.rbisland.cx/
>mailto:redbird@rbisland.cx
>PGP Fingerprint:  C462 FA84 B811 3501 9010  20D2 6EF3 77F7 BBD3 B003
>
>_______________________________________________
>Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig



From just@letterror.com  Mon Mar 12 17:55:19 2001
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:55:19 +0100
Subject: import os.path error (was Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] W section)
In-Reply-To: <a05010407b6d2a18434b1@[64.253.104.20]>
References: <f05001900b6d1c024b0c4@[10.0.1.8]>
 <20010311225210.79E9BEA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
 <f05001900b6d1c024b0c4@[10.0.1.8]>
Message-ID: <l03102806b6d2bd8f3c4e@[10.69.17.73]>

At 11:00 AM -0500 12-03-2001, Richard Blumberg wrote:
>FWIW...
>
>'import os.path' works the same on my Mac and on my webserver
>(running freeBSD, python v. 2.0). That is, it imports the os module,
>entire, including the path module contained within the os module. In
>other words, on both platforms, 'import os' and 'import os.path' seem
>to have identical results. Not quite what I'd have expected, but not
>inconsistent between platforms.

If I recall correctly, this was actually added as a feature quite a while
ago: os isn't _really_ a package, but some sort of hack (?) was added to
make it _looks_ like a package, exactly for the purpose that "import
os.path" works.

Just

. . . . .
new address:
  Hasselaersplein 7
  2013 GB Haarlem
T +31 23 5427754
F +31 23 5427217




From cbarker@jps.net  Mon Mar 12 18:47:59 2001
From: cbarker@jps.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 10:47:59 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] wxWindows Example
References: <20010309221901.95E88EA11E@oratrix.oratrix.nl> <3AA95DBA.14662758@jps.net>
Message-ID: <3AAD19DF.C2547659@jps.net>

Jack Jansen wrote:
> I keep hearing good things about wxWindows, who have apparently
> learned from the Tk mistakes, but so far I haven't seen any working
> code.

I don't know if the wxWindows Team learned from Tk mistakes, they are
entirely different animals. Tk was designed to be a GUI toolkit for use
with TCL in X-windows. It has evolved far beyond that, but that legacy
is still very apparent, which is why it has all the problems Jack
stated.

wxWindows was designed from the beginning to be a platform independent
application framework. It was also designed to use native widgets
whenever possible, to maximize native look and feel. I think that is
particularly important on the Mac. The weak point for Mac users is that
there are few of us, so wxWindows development does lag behind for the
Mac. (As is evidenced by the fact that there is not yet a wxMacPython !)

One advantage tkInter has over wxPython is that Tk was designed to work
with a scripting language, so it's syntax is far more Pythonesque than
wxPython. I think this is also due to the fact that the tkInter wrapper
was hand written, and not automatically generated by SWIG, like wxPython
is. An advantage of this however, is that the wxPython API very closely
mirrors the wxWindows API, so it is fully documented. That was a
long-standing problem with tkInter.

Given all that, wxPython is a nice, powerful, flexible, fast, platform
independent GUI toolkit for Python, and the only one (other than TK)
that is anywhere close to working on the Mac.

If you want an example of what an application using the wxWindows
library looks like on the Mac, check out: 

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~music/audacity/


With a little work, we could do that with MacPython!!

-Chris


From cbarker@jps.net  Mon Mar 12 18:59:58 2001
From: cbarker@jps.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 10:59:58 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] "Official" MacPython docs: HELP!!!!
References: <20010306231444.54F44EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
 <3AA67DBD.831D43FE@jps.net> <f05001903b6cde2cbdb2f@[10.0.1.4]>
 <3AA95C1E.50ACBB0@jps.net> <f05001901b6cf12269ec4@[192.168.0.4]>
Message-ID: <3AAD1CAE.AA79EDE6@jps.net>

> >I personlly think LaTeX is wonderful, and the Python docs formats are a
> >pretty nice way to construct Python docs. I will warn you , however,
> >that the system is all set up to work well on a *nix system, and may
> >take a little tweaking to get to work on the Mac.
> 
> Not much chance of getting it to work on clasic Mac OS as long as it 
> relies on LaTeX2html (which it did when I was writing the W docs). 
> LaTeX2html is a heavily Unix-dependent system - basically a bunch of 
> TeX and image processing stuff glued together with Perl, as I 
> understand.

I agree. What you could do pretty easily is get the LaTeX part working,
and you could get nice printout, PS, and PDF from that. The HTML would
probably have to be generated on a Unix box, but that is handled by Fred
Drake anyway.

(wouldn't a LaTeX to html built with Python be a great thing!)

Keep your contributions coming!!

-Chris



-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tom@othermedia.com  Tue Mar 13 09:59:45 2001
From: tom@othermedia.com (tom smith)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:59:45 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] wxWindows Example
In-Reply-To: <3AAD19DF.C2547659@jps.net>
Message-ID: <B6D3A00F.4FE7%tom@othermedia.com>

on 12/3/01 6:47 PM, Chris Barker at cbarker@jps.net wrote:

> If you want an example of what an application using the wxWindows
> library looks like on the Mac, check out:
> 
> http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~music/audacity/

Looks OK, but saw no evidence of ANY mac widgets. No drag and drop,
contextual menus. Hell, even the button with a cursor image on it is WHITE .

It looks thoroughly like a windows app. After 1 minute of recording me
whistling it bombed my computer.

> With a little work, we could do that with MacPython!!

ahem... what are the other options...

tom



From jack@oratrix.nl  Tue Mar 13 13:35:09 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 14:35:09 +0100
Subject: import os.path error (was Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] W section)
In-Reply-To: Message by Just van Rossum <just@letterror.com> ,
 Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:55:19 +0100 , <l03102806b6d2bd8f3c4e@[10.69.17.73]>
Message-ID: <20010313133632.C575A373C95@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> If I recall correctly, this was actually added as a feature quite a while
> ago: os isn't _really_ a package, but some sort of hack (?) was added to
> make it _looks_ like a package, exactly for the purpose that "import
> os.path" works.

One is never too old to learn, it seems:-)

I just tried it in 2.1b1 on Irix, and it still works there. So I'll have a 
look at making it work again on 2.1b1 for Mac (although I must say that I 
haven't a clue as to how this hack would work...)
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From jack@oratrix.nl  Tue Mar 13 20:25:01 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:25:01 +0100
Subject: import os.path error (was Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] W section)
In-Reply-To: Message by Just van Rossum <just@letterror.com> ,
 Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:55:19 +0100 , <l03102806b6d2bd8f3c4e@[10.69.17.73]>
Message-ID: <20010313202506.E3FC4EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Of course I only half-read the original message, so when I replied
"I'll look into fixing it" I thought the original message said that it 
did not work on Mac while it did work on Linux. But as it works the
same on both I think I'll refrain from "fixing" it:-)
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From richard@blumberg.org  Tue Mar 13 21:09:16 2001
From: richard@blumberg.org (Richard Blumberg)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:09:16 -0500
Subject: import os.path error (was Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] W section)
In-Reply-To: <20010313202506.E3FC4EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010313202506.E3FC4EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <a05010405b6d43caf496f@[64.253.104.20]>

No, Jack, please fix it. And while you're at it, fix the Unix version too.

;-)

Richard

At 9:25 PM +0100 3/13/01, Jack Jansen wrote:
>Of course I only half-read the original message, so when I replied
>"I'll look into fixing it" I thought the original message said that it
>did not work on Mac while it did work on Linux. But as it works the
>same on both I think I'll refrain from "fixing" it:-)
>--
>Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
>Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
>www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm
>
>_______________________________________________
>Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig



From jack@oratrix.nl  Wed Mar 14 12:39:54 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:39:54 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Yet another MacPython beta
Message-ID: <20010314123954.ED2C4373C95@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

Folks,
there's yet another MacPython 2.1b1 installer, this time it is build 87. 
Barring showstoppers I will announce this to a wider audience tomorrow. Bugs 
fixed since the previous b1:
- The problem with the IDE burning cycles on OSX has been fixed.
- ConfigurePython will now detect suspicious preference files (with a different
  Python folder from where it was started from, i.e. what will happen if you
  install this after you've installed the previous 2.1b1) and offer to
  remove it.
- The installer fires up ConfigurePython and waits for it.
- The installer warns about the finder activity when it finishes.
- On OSX Final you can put applets anywhere you want again. On Public Beta
  they will still have to live in the Python folder.

Grab it from http://www.cwi.nl/ftp/jack/python/mac and let me know when there 
are problems,
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | ++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/ ++++




From tom@othermedia.com  Wed Mar 14 15:29:07 2001
From: tom@othermedia.com (tom smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:29:07 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Yet another MacPython beta
In-Reply-To: <20010314123954.ED2C4373C95@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <B6D53EC2.50D2%tom@othermedia.com>

are there any reasons not to upgrade to this like not working with Tk or
problematic modules?

thanks

tom



From bfancher@mac.com  Wed Mar 14 17:19:16 2001
From: bfancher@mac.com (bill fancher)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:19:16 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] CVS Problem
In-Reply-To: <20010314123954.ED2C4373C95@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <B6D4E814.1F4F6%bfancher@mac.com>

I get the following when trying to log in to pythoncvs.oratrix.nl:

Fatal error, aborting.
ropython: no such user
cvs login: authorization failed: server pythoncvs.oratrix.nl rejected access
to /hosts/mm/CVSREMOTE for user ropython

-- 
bill




From cbarker@jps.net  Wed Mar 14 18:09:48 2001
From: cbarker@jps.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:09:48 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] wxWindows Example
References: <20010306231444.54F44EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
 <3AA67DBD.831D43FE@jps.net> <f05001903b6cde2cbdb2f@[10.0.1.4]>
 <3AA95C1E.50ACBB0@jps.net> <f05001901b6cf12269ec4@[192.168.0.4]> <3AAD1CAE.AA79EDE6@jps.net>
Message-ID: <3AAFB3EC.CF079F42@jps.net>

tom smith wrote:

> > If you want an example of what an application using the wxWindows
> > library looks like on the Mac, check out:
> >
> > http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~music/audacity/
 
> Looks OK, but saw no evidence of ANY mac widgets. No drag and drop,
> contextual menus. 

In many ways, that is not the best example of the wxWindows from a "use
of the native widgets" point of view. All the buttons are custom
designed. They ARE NOT windows widgets. wx does not render it's own
widgets, so it isn't emulating windows unless the author chooses to make
his own buttons look like windows buttons. If you use standard
wxButtons, the native ones are used.

>Hell, even the button with a cursor image on it is WHITE .

That is a custom bitmap button. It is a cross platform app. There are
always trade offs between consistancy across platforms and native look.
With a custom bitmap button like the cursor image one, an author would
have to have separate bitmaps for each platform in order to get an
absolutely native look (BTW, the arrow cursor on my Linux box is black,
and I think is is on Windows as well, so who knows why he decided to
draw
it that way). If you want all your custom buttons to look native, you
can
certainly do that. For that matter, you can make all your custom buttons
look more like Mac buttons, and they will look that way on all
platforms.
 
> It looks thoroughly like a windows app. After 1 minute of recording me
> whistling it bombed my computer.

This is what the author of the program said about the Mac port:

" Audacity works reasonably well on the Mac.  It definitely has bugs and
 is not as stable on the Mac (yet), but it shows that we're definitely
 getting close."

I'm sure he'd appreciate a bug report, and it's likely that bug has
nothing to do with wx anyway.

> ahem... what are the other options...

The only other option is tk. While at the moment, tk does function at
least somewhat on the Mac, It isn't really robust enough for substantial
projects, and I don't think it has a really promising future (see Jack's
previous post). There is no question that development of wxMac is behind
the other ports, but I do think it has a lot of promise. If no one uses
it, and no Mac developers take an active interest, it won't get better.
wxPython has given a real boost to wxWindows development (on Windows and
*nix) by giving it much more exposure, a larger user base, and a larger
develper base. wxMacPython could do the same for the Mac port if we can
get it started.

I work in a mostly Mac house, but we do need to distribute our software
to others, and over 90% of our other users are Windows based. We have
spent an enormous amount of time and money supporting both platforms. We
can't continue to do that, so we need to find a cross platform solution,
or the Mac will be dropped. I have been surprised that there don't seem
to be any good tools for cross-platform develpment of Mac and Windows
and Unix. (Real Basic is the first that holds any real promise, but it
has it's limitations, and doesn't support *nix. I'd also much rather see
and open source option). I guess the reality is that if you really
wanted to reach the broadest possible audience, you wouldn't be
developing for the Mac in the first place, so Mac develpers don't seem
interested in cross platform tools.

I'm starting a project now using Python and wxPython, developing on
Linux and Windows. I would really like to have a Mac port of my app
eventually, but it's not going to happen if I have to re-write all the
GUI code. There must be others in my situation.


There was a recent article on wxPython in IBM developerworks. Check out: 

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-wxpy/

For a nice little intro. It's written for Python Newbies, but it's good
PR anyway.

-Chris



-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From jack@oratrix.nl  Wed Mar 14 22:36:07 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 23:36:07 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] CVS Problem
In-Reply-To: Message by bill fancher <bfancher@mac.com> ,
 Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:19:16 -0800 , <B6D4E814.1F4F6%bfancher@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20010314223612.98326EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, bill fancher <bfancher@mac.com> said:
> I get the following when trying to log in to pythoncvs.oratrix.nl:
> 
> Fatal error, aborting.
> ropython: no such user

We've fixed this again, we hope that the current fix will not
(again:-) make everything disappear the next time the mirror script is 
run....

--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From chrisl@fone.net  Thu Mar 15 04:04:29 2001
From: chrisl@fone.net (Chris)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 21:04:29 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] wxPython, tkinter & other GUIs
Message-ID: <3AB03F49.FE05FA93@fone.net>

I am not a developer and only have used Python for small utility
programs to date. I have tried tkinter, but the coding is awkward, it is
buggy and has limited graphics. I have looked into wxPython by watching
the discussions on their mailing list, and it seems to me that wxPython
experiences some of the same problems as tkinter, not to mention that
the whole focus of that gui tool kit is towards Windows machines. I
found little support for Mac and *nix. Out of despiration, I have tried
jython (formly jPython) and have experienced some success.

With this being said, is it possible to use Java as a crossplatform gui
for MacPython? There are already Python modules for Windows and Solaris.
Java's gui toolkit is quite mature. There are also many additions, like
swing that extend the gui even further. There are also many RAD
development programs that build Java guis. Some of them are freeware or
opensource. Java operates consistently across all three platforms I work
on. There is no special code adjustment. The Java gui also has native
look-and-feel capabilities and features very similar to Mac, like
drag-and-drop.

It would be nice if somebody could compile a module for MacPython to
interface with Java. I would if I had the knowledge and I would even be
willing to help if someone would point me in the right direction.

Chris Lumsargis



From bobsavage@mac.com  Thu Mar 15 05:37:36 2001
From: bobsavage@mac.com (Bob Savage)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 21:37:36 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] wxPython, tkinter & other GUIs
In-Reply-To: <3AB03F49.FE05FA93@fone.net>
Message-ID: <B6D5951F.14FB5%bobsavage@mac.com>

> It would be nice if somebody could compile a module for MacPython to
> interface with Java. I would if I had the knowledge and I would even be
> willing to help if someone would point me in the right direction.
> 

My understanding (which could easily be nothing but a load of manure) is
that the work on the Objective-C / Python bindings would allow this because
of the existing "Java Bridge" available to users of Cocoa. This would NOT,
however, be a cross-platform implementation which would bring us back to
SQ-1.

Bob



From jwblist@olympus.net  Thu Mar 15 16:31:41 2001
From: jwblist@olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 08:31:41 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] wxWindows Example
In-Reply-To: <3AAFB3EC.CF079F42@jps.net>
References: <20010306231444.54F44EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
 <3AA67DBD.831D43FE@jps.net> <f05001903b6cde2cbdb2f@[10.0.1.4]>
 <3AA95C1E.50ACBB0@jps.net> <f05001901b6cf12269ec4@[192.168.0.4]>
 <3AAD1CAE.AA79EDE6@jps.net> <3AAFB3EC.CF079F42@jps.net>
Message-ID: <a05010402b6d69e1057d5@[207.149.192.226]>

At 10:09 -0800 3/14/01, Chris Barker wrote:
>The only other option is tk. While at the moment, tk does function at
>least somewhat on the Mac, It isn't really robust enough for substantial
>projects, and I don't think it has a really promising future (see Jack's
>previous post). There is no question that development of wxMac is behind
>the other ports, but I do think it has a lot of promise. If no one uses
>it, and no Mac developers take an active interest, it won't get better.
>wxPython has given a real boost to wxWindows development (on Windows and
>*nix) by giving it much more exposure, a larger user base, and a larger
>develper base. wxMacPython could do the same for the Mac port if we can
>get it started.

I'm not interested in doing anything more with tk than the
slightly-more-than-hello-world toys I've done.  They were strange enough.

At work, we use Python in a command line and text sort of environment (we
don't run X eXcept on the physical console to deal with tools which are
X-ish, and we don't do Windows on the servers).  So I don't have much
compulsion to help push wxPython on Mac (or Linux, or Windows).

All that said:  I hope many someones do.

  --John
-- 
John Baxter   jwblist@olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA


From cbarker@jps.net  Thu Mar 15 18:49:32 2001
From: cbarker@jps.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:49:32 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] wxPython, tkinter & other GUIs
References: <3AB03F49.FE05FA93@fone.net>
Message-ID: <3AB10EBC.B1109558@jps.net>

Chris wrote:
> I have tried tkinter, but the coding is awkward, it is
> buggy and has limited graphics.

I agree

> I have looked into wxPython by watching
> the discussions on their mailing list, and it seems to me that wxPython
> experiences some of the same problems as tkinter,

Some of the awkward coding, yes. It is a thin wrapper around a C++
toolkit, so it's not nearly as Pythonesque as I would like, but you get
used to it.

> not to mention that
> the whole focus of that gui tool kit is towards Windows machines. I
> found little support for Mac and *nix.

Well, none for the Mac yet, but I havn't found a Windows bias at all. It
seems to me there are an equal number of GTK (Unix) users as Windows,
and many using both. I've heard the API has a lot of similarity to MFC,
but never having used MFC, I wouldn't know.


> jython (formly jPython) and have experienced some success.

How good is JAVA and SWING at creating a native look and feel app on the
Mac?

tom smith wrote:

> Revolution at http://www.runrev.com is worth a look. I created an app and
> compiled to mac/windows/unix within the hour. Not open-source though. If
> you've ever used HyperTalk this is like falling off a log.

I havn't tried it yet, but it does sound like a updated Hypercard.
Personally, I'm not fond og hypertalk, but that's a taste issue. Open
source is important, however, Revolution is still in Beta. WE have no
idea whether it will be around in 5 or evern ten years. Python will.
Even if the whole Python comunity has abandoned it, I have the sosurce
code, and can keep it working if need be. OUr organisation used to use
hypercard a lot, but it's dead, but if we had the source code, we'd
probably still be using it.

My other question about Revolution is it's extendability. That is a
major strength of Python. Without NumPy, Python would be a whole lot
less useful to me. Any environment that couldn't be extended in that way
would be worthless to me.


> I too need cross-platform abilities but often find that the core services
> available knacker me before I get to the gui. Threads, odbc, http, others
> etc).

Hmm. I find Python solves a lot of those for me.

>I'm seriously looking at building all my interfaces in html or maybe
> xml-rpc and developing seperate guis.

Actually, I'll probably do something like that for my current project if
wxMacPython doesn't appear. I'll create a web browser interface, and
then the interface really will be platform independent.

> I wasn't knocking cross-platform tools or Tk or Wx, but
> cross-platform normally means looks-like-crap to mac users (realBasic being
> a notable exception.

Of course, you can only develop with RealBasic on the Mac, so in this
case Windows is the second class citizen, which is not good either.

> I use Tk for simple stuff but the lack of gui builder
> on the mac means my interfaces look as bad as can do.

Also, tk does not use native widgets. It is essentially a micro port of
X-windows
 
> I imagine that wxWindows will not draw enough interest because of the
> windows-centricty of it, which means mac users lose out.

It really isn't Windows-centric. It is cross platform-centric. However,
each individual platform is only as good as the develpment it gets, and
the Mac certainly has less interest, and so it is not as well developed.
Also, if a Mac develper where to use wxWindows to develope on the Mac,
and then re-compile to for Windows and GTK, they would probably end up
eith an app that looked more native on the Mac. A lot of that is a
matter of design, rather than the toolkit.

>It's a chicken and egg thing
 
Yes, that is the problem. Mac folks aren't interested unless they see it
working well on the Mac, but without Mac developers interested, It never
will work well on the Mac.


Bob Savage wrote:
> My understanding (which could easily be nothing but a load of manure) is
> that the work on the Objective-C / Python bindings would allow this because
> of the existing "Java Bridge" available to users of Cocoa. This would NOT,
> however, be a cross-platform implementation which would bring us back to
> SQ-1.

Exactly, if you want JAVA GUI, why not use Jython? Besides no Numeric
:-( 

I'll keep looking for a nice Mac-ish app built with wx, I think we
really need a demo.

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From robin@alldunn.com  Thu Mar 15 19:01:29 2001
From: robin@alldunn.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:01:29 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] wxPython, tkinter & other GUIs
References: <3AB03F49.FE05FA93@fone.net>
Message-ID: <015501c0ad82$5866cde0$0100a8c0@Rogue>

>
> It would be nice if somebody could compile a module for MacPython to
> interface with Java. I would if I had the knowledge and I would even be
> willing to help if someone would point me in the right direction.
>

You don't need it.  Jython is pure java code and so it all you need are Java
and the Jython class files.  You get a mostly compatible Python interpreter
that is able to import and use java packages and classes as if they were
Python classes.  It's very convenient for embedding scriptable capabilites
in a Java application, but it could also be used for standalone Jython
applications.

The downside however, (in my experience on Windows and Linux anyway) is that
it is much slower than CPython, especially when doing Swing-based GUIs from
JPython.  That may have changed since I last did it though, it's been a
while.

--
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
robin@AllDunn.com       Java give you jitters?
http://wxPython.org      Relax with wxPython!






From sdm7g@virginia.edu  Thu Mar 15 20:48:47 2001
From: sdm7g@virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:48:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] wxPython, tkinter & other GUIs
In-Reply-To: <B6D5951F.14FB5%bobsavage@mac.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0103151539190.329-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Bob Savage wrote:

> > It would be nice if somebody could compile a module for MacPython to
> > interface with Java. I would if I had the knowledge and I would even be
> > willing to help if someone would point me in the right direction.
> > 
> 
> My understanding (which could easily be nothing but a load of manure) is
> that the work on the Objective-C / Python bindings would allow this because
> of the existing "Java Bridge" available to users of Cocoa. This would NOT,
> however, be a cross-platform implementation which would bring us back to
> SQ-1.

Bob: I was about to reply and say that was nothing but a load of manure
;-)  -- I didn't think the bridge worked quite the same in both 
directions, but I stopped first to look at the docs, and what do I 
see but an example: 


MyJavaClass = NSClassFromString(@"java.util.AJavaClass");
MyJavaObj = [[MyJavaClass alloc] init];


But that's not only NOT cross-platform, it's won't even work on 
pre OSX mac's. If you're going to aim for OSX, you might as well
go ahead and use Cocoa. ( Which you can get to via either 
jython -> java -> objective-c  or  (c) python -> objective-c,
although, unfortunately, the interfaces are completely different!)


-- Steve M. 



From chrisl@fone.net  Thu Mar 15 22:05:03 2001
From: chrisl@fone.net (Chris)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:05:03 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] wxPython, tkinter & other GUIs
Message-ID: <3AB13C87.8A0BCF06@fone.net>

Chris Barker wrote:

>
> How good is JAVA and SWING at creating a native look and feel app on
the
> Mac?
>

The demos that I have run look pretty close to the mac look-and-feel.

>
>
> It really isn't Windows-centric. It is cross platform-centric.
However,
> each individual platform is only as good as the develpment it gets,
and
> the Mac certainly has less interest, and so it is not as well
developed.
> Also, if a Mac develper where to use wxWindows to develope on the Mac,

> and then re-compile to for Windows and GTK, they would probably end up

> eith an app that looked more native on the Mac. A lot of that is a
> matter of design, rather than the toolkit.
>

Since you mention GTK, why not use GTK as a gui? GTK exists for Windows
and
Linux. There is an alpha version ported to the Mac on Sourceforge. The
demo on
Sourceforge is pretty slick. There is even a GTK gui builder as part of
the
LinuxPPC distibution.

> Exactly, if you want JAVA GUI, why not use Jython? Besides no Numeric
> :-(
>
> I'll keep looking for a nice Mac-ish app built with wx, I think we
> really need a demo.
>
> -Chris
>

There are good reasons why to use Java as a gui as part of Python
instead of
just Jython. Jython has a number of limitations that make it awkward to
use and
distribute. First, point and click operation does not work well with
Jython. On
MacPython, I can just double click on a script and it will run. With
Python in
Linux, I just type python with the script name and it will run. It does
not seem
to be as simple with Jython, possibly due to the fact that you are
running an
interpreter inside an interpreter. Jython on the Mac also seems slow.
Python
also seems to be more widely distributed than Jython. There needs to be
more
than cross platform compatibility, you need the interpreter to be on
many
machines. Finally, much of the other guis and potential guis (like tk,
wx, fltk,
GTK, etc) are either buggy, don't exist on the Mac or are in the very
early
stages of development.

Regarding wx, there was talk over a year ago that wxPython was being
ported to
the Mac. So far it has not happened, or at least there is no usable
binary yet.
If you are waiting for wx, you might be waiting a long time.

Chris L.



From sdm7g@virginia.edu  Thu Mar 15 22:19:31 2001
From: sdm7g@virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:19:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] wxPython, tkinter & other GUIs
In-Reply-To: <3AB13C87.8A0BCF06@fone.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0103151716441.329-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Chris wrote:

> Since you mention GTK, why not use GTK as a gui? GTK exists for
> Windows and Linux. There is an alpha version ported to the Mac on
> Sourceforge. The demo on Sourceforge is pretty slick. There is even a
> GTK gui builder as part of the LinuxPPC distibution.

Do you have a URL for info on the Mac port ?
I had not heard about this, and I can't find any mention on the
gtk.org website. ( And I can't find or access the project on 
sourceforge ) 

-- Steve Majewski




From TattooMabonzoK.  Fri Mar 16 00:31:35 2001
From: TattooMabonzoK. (TattooMabonzoK.)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 01:31:35 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Yet another MacPython beta
In-Reply-To: <20010314123954.ED2C4373C95@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <1227419797-2853073@microscript.net>

Yo Jack,

The following is on OSX build 4K78 on my PowerBook Bronze Keyboard 500 Mhz 
with 320 megs of RAM.

On Wednesday, March 14, 2001, at 01:39 , Jack Jansen wrote:

> Folks,
> there's yet another MacPython 2.1b1 installer, this time it is build 87.
> Barring showstoppers I will announce this to a wider audience tomorrow. 
> Bugs
> fixed since the previous b1:
> - The problem with the IDE burning cycles on OSX has been fixed.
> - ConfigurePython will now detect suspicious preference files (with a 
> different
>   Python folder from where it was started from, i.e. what will happen if 
> you
>   install this after you've installed the previous 2.1b1) and offer to
>   remove it.

Hmmm.. I'm not sure this works as advertised. If memory serves  I got an 
error message about some corrupted prefs file(sorry for being vague :-/) 
and then I got a message stating that "ConfigurePythonCarbon unexpectedly 
quit...". I then deleted all Python related files and folder @ 
/Users/<home_folder>/Library/Preferences.

I used the active installer which otherwise works perfectly.

> - The installer fires up ConfigurePython and waits for it.

I get a dialog stating that "ConfigurePython unexpectedly quit..." and at 
the same time the warning about the finder activity.

Trying to run the applet manually I first get a dialog saying that "I have 
installed MacPython on a non-boot or on Mac OS X. Normally an alias..."

Regardless of the option I choose (ie "Make alias" or "Copy"), I get an 
error.

In the case of the "Copy" option, the error message states that:

in macostools.py on line 89 in copy
ofp = open(dstfss.as_pathname(), 'wb')
IOError: [Errno 13]: Permission denied: 'Mac OS 
X:System:Library:CFMSupport:PythonCore 2.1b1'

While the 'Creating PythonCore aliases..." dialog is displayed. I'm logged 
in as the default user who has admin privileges (but this is *not* root)

I have no recourse but selecting the "Quit ConfigurePythonCarbon" menu 
item.
Worth noting is the fact that the error log appears quite slowly in the 
output widow in a 'teletype way' meaning I can see characters being 
printing slowing from left to right, top to  bottom at about half-a-dozen 
chars a second.

> - The installer warns about the finder activity when it finishes.

It does warn but it may that this is all it does :-). Meaning I don't have 
to wait for several minutes the way it worked on OS 9.x

> - On OSX Final you can put applets anywhere you want again. On Public Beta

Couldn't test that since I can't build applets :-).

>   they will still have to live in the Python folder.

If I can be of further help..,

= tmk =


From owen@astro.washington.edu  Fri Mar 16 00:51:04 2001
From: owen@astro.washington.edu (Russell E Owen)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:51:04 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Yet another MacPython beta
In-Reply-To: <20010314123954.ED2C4373C95@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010314123954.ED2C4373C95@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <p05100203b6d712776346@[128.95.99.44]>

The full installer worked fine for me. (I did not try the other one).

Thanks for the updated release notes!!!

Everything worked just great. I only have one minor niggle: the new 
dialog that says this next step could take awhile comes after the 
long delay that I see. The long delay occurs when all the disk 
activity of installation ends and ConfigurePython (approx.) starts 
up. Eventually it gets into the swing of things and rebuilds applets, 
but initially it seems to spend a lot of time just sitting and 
thinking about what to do -- no disk activity or anything -- which 
was worrisome the first time I saw it. No big deal.

Aside from that the installation went flawlessly, and all my code 
that I tested (excluding the Tk stuff) worked great. Thanks!!!

-- Russell

>there's yet another MacPython 2.1b1 installer...
>
>Grab it from http://www.cwi.nl/ftp/jack/python/mac and let me know when there
>are problems,


From chrisl@fone.net  Fri Mar 16 02:02:25 2001
From: chrisl@fone.net (Chris)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:02:25 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] wxPython, tkinter & other GUIs
References: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0103151716441.329-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <3AB17430.A68ACC20@fone.net>

I found the GTK port at:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/gtk-mac/

It is only in the development stage (0.1d), but the demo runs. This port
has not seen much movement for many months, but has the potential to be
quite useful.

"Steven D. Majewski" wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Chris wrote:
>
> > Since you mention GTK, why not use GTK as a gui? GTK exists for
> > Windows and Linux. There is an alpha version ported to the Mac on
> > Sourceforge. The demo on Sourceforge is pretty slick. There is even a
> > GTK gui builder as part of the LinuxPPC distibution.
>
> Do you have a URL for info on the Mac port ?
> I had not heard about this, and I can't find any mention on the
> gtk.org website. ( And I can't find or access the project on
> sourceforge )
>
> -- Steve Majewski
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig



From jack@oratrix.nl  Fri Mar 16 09:22:58 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:22:58 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Yet another MacPython beta
In-Reply-To: Message by "Tattoo Mabonzo K." <tmk@easynet.be> ,
 Fri, 16 Mar 2001 01:31:35 +0100 , <1227419797-2853073@microscript.net>
Message-ID: <20010316092258.AED98373C95@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> Yo Jack,
> 
> The following is on OSX build 4K78 on my PowerBook Bronze Keyboard 500 Mhz 
> with 320 megs of RAM.

Build 4K78 is Release Candidate, right? (Can't check right now, the machine is 
at home).

> Hmmm.. I'm not sure this works as advertised. If memory serves  I got an 
> error message about some corrupted prefs file(sorry for being vague :-/) 
> and then I got a message stating that "ConfigurePythonCarbon unexpectedly 
> quit...". I then deleted all Python related files and folder @ 
> /Users/<home_folder>/Library/Preferences.

If this worked fine after you removed the preferences files I'd say we should 
let it rest. Otherwise I would be interested in the exact error message.

> I get a dialog stating that "ConfigurePython unexpectedly quit..." and at 
> the same time the warning about the finder activity.

Hmm, maybe this is because the dialog is modal? As soon as I saw the 
ConfigurePython icon showing up I immedeately brought ConfigurePython to 
front, maybe it fails if you don't do that?

> Trying to run the applet manually I first get a dialog saying that "I have 
> installed MacPython on a non-boot or on Mac OS X. Normally an alias..."
> 
> Regardless of the option I choose (ie "Make alias" or "Copy"), I get an 
> error.
> 
> In the case of the "Copy" option, the error message states that:
> 
> in macostools.py on line 89 in copy
> ofp = open(dstfss.as_pathname(), 'wb')
> IOError: [Errno 13]: Permission denied: 'Mac OS 
> X:System:Library:CFMSupport:PythonCore 2.1b1'
> 
> While the 'Creating PythonCore aliases..." dialog is displayed. I'm logged 
> in as the default user who has admin privileges (but this is *not* root)

Hmm, interesting. This all worked fine for me. Is anyone else here running OSX 
RC? If so: please let us know how you fared...

I get the impression that under OSX Release Candidate the "Allow changes" 
padlock works differently than under Public Beta, its state appears to be 
remembered. It might be that I by chance had the padlock open when I installed 
and you had it closed. If you have the time, could you see whether there's 
anything you can do to make ConfigurePython run? (That is, short of enabling 
the root account and using that, I definitely don't want to revert to that). 
Also, an "ls -ld /System/Library/CFMSupport" would be worth looking at (to 
compare it to mine).


> > - The installer warns about the finder activity when it finishes.
> 
> It does warn but it may that this is all it does :-). Meaning I don't have 
> to wait for several minutes the way it worked on OS 9.x

Ah, yes, no need to display that message on OSX, I guess. And on OS9 I'll 
apparently have to give it earlier, as Russel Owen pointed out.

--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From TattooMabonzoK.  Fri Mar 16 10:48:09 2001
From: TattooMabonzoK. (TattooMabonzoK.)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:48:09 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Yet another MacPython beta
In-Reply-To: <20010316092258.AED98373C95@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <1227382803-5078405@microscript.net>

On Friday, March 16, 2001, at 10:22 , Jack Jansen wrote:

>> Yo Jack,
>>
>> The following is on OSX build 4K78 on my PowerBook Bronze Keyboard 500 
>> Mhz
>> with 320 megs of RAM.
>
> Build 4K78 is Release Candidate, right? (Can't check right now, the 
> machine is
> at home).
>

Correct.

>> Hmmm.. I'm not sure this works as advertised. If memory serves  I got an
>> error message about some corrupted prefs file(sorry for being vague :-/)
>> and then I got a message stating that "ConfigurePythonCarbon unexpectedly
>> quit...". I then deleted all Python related files and folder @
>> /Users/<home_folder>/Library/Preferences.
>
> If this worked fine after you removed the preferences files I'd say we 
> should
> let it rest. Otherwise I would be interested in the exact error message.

I've tried re-installing but now

>
>> I get a dialog stating that "ConfigurePython unexpectedly quit..." and at
>> the same time the warning about the finder activity.
>
> Hmm, maybe this is because the dialog is modal? As soon as I saw the
> ConfigurePython icon showing up I immedeately brought ConfigurePython to
> front, maybe it fails if you don't do that?

I'm not sure what you mean :-).
My prose wasn't too clear but what *I* meant to say is that basically 
ConfigurePython just crashed.
I didn't mean to imply that it was somehow related to the fact the 'finder 
activity' modal dialog was displayed.

>
>> Trying to run the applet manually I first get a dialog saying that "I 
>> have
>> installed MacPython on a non-boot or on Mac OS X. Normally an alias..."
>>
>> Regardless of the option I choose (ie "Make alias" or "Copy"), I get an
>> error.
>>
>> In the case of the "Copy" option, the error message states that:
>>
>> in macostools.py on line 89 in copy
>> ofp = open(dstfss.as_pathname(), 'wb')
>> IOError: [Errno 13]: Permission denied: 'Mac OS
>> X:System:Library:CFMSupport:PythonCore 2.1b1'
>>
>> While the 'Creating PythonCore aliases..." dialog is displayed. I'm 
>> logged
>> in as the default user who has admin privileges (but this is *not* root)
>
> Hmm, interesting. This all worked fine for me. Is anyone else here 
> running OSX
> RC? If so: please let us know how you fared...
>
> I get the impression that under OSX Release Candidate the "Allow changes"
> padlock works differently than under Public Beta, its state appears to be
> remembered. It might be that I by chance had the padlock open when I 
> installed

Hmmm. I don't know what the padlock is :-).

> and you had it closed. If you have the time, could you see whether there'
> s
> anything you can do to make ConfigurePython run? (That is, short of 
> enabling
> the root account and using that, I definitely don't want to revert to 
> that).

Yep. That would be a big NO-NO :-).

> Also, an "ls -ld /System/Library/CFMSupport" would be worth looking at (to
> compare it to mine).
>

drwxr-xr-x  14 root  wheel  432 Mar 12 23:19 /System/Library/CFMSupport

TIA

= tmk =


From TattooMabonzoK.  Fri Mar 16 10:59:13 2001
From: TattooMabonzoK. (TattooMabonzoK.)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:59:13 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Yet another MacPython beta
In-Reply-To: <20010316092258.AED98373C95@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <1227382139-5118342@microscript.net>

Sorry for the duplicate post the first one went out a little bit to 
earlier.

On Friday, March 16, 2001, at 10:22 , Jack Jansen wrote:

>> Yo Jack,
>>
>> The following is on OSX build 4K78 on my PowerBook Bronze Keyboard 500 
>> Mhz
>> with 320 megs of RAM.
>
> Build 4K78 is Release Candidate, right? (Can't check right now, the 
> machine is
> at home).
>

Correct.

>> Hmmm.. I'm not sure this works as advertised. If memory serves  I got an
>> error message about some corrupted prefs file(sorry for being vague :-/)
>> and then I got a message stating that "ConfigurePythonCarbon unexpectedly
>> quit...". I then deleted all Python related files and folder @
>> /Users/<home_folder>/Library/Preferences.
>
> If this worked fine after you removed the preferences files I'd say we 
> should
> let it rest. Otherwise I would be interested in the exact error message.

I've tried re-installing but couldn't reproduce the problem. I guess it 
had to do with some pre-installed prefs lef over.

>
>> I get a dialog stating that "ConfigurePython unexpectedly quit..." and at
>> the same time the warning about the finder activity.
>
> Hmm, maybe this is because the dialog is modal? As soon as I saw the
> ConfigurePython icon showing up I immedeately brought ConfigurePython to
> front, maybe it fails if you don't do that?

I'm not sure what you mean :-).
My prose wasn't too clear but what *I* meant to say is that basically 
ConfigurePython just crashed.
I didn't mean to imply that it was somehow related to the fact the 'finder 
activity' modal dialog was displayed.

>
>> Trying to run the applet manually I first get a dialog saying that "I 
>> have
>> installed MacPython on a non-boot or on Mac OS X. Normally an alias..."
>>
>> Regardless of the option I choose (ie "Make alias" or "Copy"), I get an
>> error.
>>
>> In the case of the "Copy" option, the error message states that:
>>
>> in macostools.py on line 89 in copy
>> ofp = open(dstfss.as_pathname(), 'wb')
>> IOError: [Errno 13]: Permission denied: 'Mac OS
>> X:System:Library:CFMSupport:PythonCore 2.1b1'
>>
>> While the 'Creating PythonCore aliases..." dialog is displayed. I'm 
>> logged
>> in as the default user who has admin privileges (but this is *not* root)
>
> Hmm, interesting. This all worked fine for me. Is anyone else here 
> running OSX
> RC? If so: please let us know how you fared...
>
> I get the impression that under OSX Release Candidate the "Allow changes"
> padlock works differently than under Public Beta, its state appears to be
> remembered. It might be that I by chance had the padlock open when I 
> installed

Hmmm. I don't know what the padlock is :-).

> and you had it closed. If you have the time, could you see whether there'
> s
> anything you can do to make ConfigurePython run? (That is, short of 
> enabling
> the root account and using that, I definitely don't want to revert to 
> that).

Yep. That would be a big NO-NO :-).

> Also, an "ls -ld /System/Library/CFMSupport" would be worth looking at (to
> compare it to mine).
>

drwxr-xr-x  14 root  wheel  432 Mar 12 23:19 /System/Library/CFMSupport

TIA

= tmk =



From cbarker@jps.net  Fri Mar 16 18:37:35 2001
From: cbarker@jps.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:37:35 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] wxPython, tkinter & other GUIs
References: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0103151716441.329-100000@localhost.virginia.edu> <3AB17430.A68ACC20@fone.net>
Message-ID: <3AB25D6F.7B758F16@jps.net>

Chris wrote:

> Since you mention GTK, why not use GTK as a gui? GTK exists for Windows and
> Linux. There is an alpha version ported to the Mac on Sourceforge. The demo on
> Sourceforge is pretty slick. There is even a GTK gui builder as part of the
> LinuxPPC distibution.

There has been recent discussion of pyGTK vs. wxPython for Windows-Linux
development. As far as I can tell, the reasons to use wxPython are:

1) GTK is still not quite complete and pretty buggy on Windows

2) GTK does not use the native controls on Windows, and so you don'
t get an app that is as native looking.

3) wxPython provides a more object oriented, complete framework that
PyGTK. (Note that not everyone prefers the more object oriented approach
of wx, it's a matter of taste)

As for GTK-mac, it is in even worse shape than GTK-Windows, and is
certainly going to much harder to get a native look and feel that wxMAC.
It is also less far along in development than wxMAC. As far as I have
gleened from the mailing lists, C++ wxMac is pretty darn functional (I
don't think sizers work, however, which is very sad). I'm not a C++
programmer, so I havn't tried it. 

Given all that, There is no reason I can see that trying to make a
MacPyGTK would be any easier or have a better result that trying to make
a wxMacPython. Either one would require a substantial effort by an
experienced Mac programmer(s), however, and no one has stepped up to do
it yet. I am convinced that the easiest way to get a good environment
for X-platform GUI programming with Python on the Mac is to port
wxPython. That would be "easiest" not "easy".

> Regarding wx, there was talk over a year ago that wxPython was being ported to
> the Mac. So far it has not happened, or at least there is no usable binary yet.
> If you are waiting for wx, you might be waiting a long time.

Yes, I might, but I don't see any other options besides waiting, or
learning C++ and doing it myself. Except, of course, advocating, which I
have been doing to the point of annoying probably everyone on this list.
Sorry about that, thanks for not flaming me over it.

-Chris

-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From jack@oratrix.nl  Fri Mar 16 23:04:32 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 00:04:32 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] InterfaceBuilder, wxPython, tkinter & other GUIs
In-Reply-To: Message by Chris Barker <cbarker@jps.net> ,
 Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:37:35 -0800 , <3AB25D6F.7B758F16@jps.net>
Message-ID: <20010316230437.C7490EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

I've been playing around with InterfaceBuilder yesterday and today,
and I must say that I'm really excited about the possibilities.

InterfaceBuilder is sort-of the OSX equivalent for ResEdit/Resorcerer, 
it allows you to create dialogs, menus, windows, etc. Aside from
having a much better user interface than those it has one feature
for which I can really see great opportunities: the main output file
is an XML definition of the dialogs, windows, etc that you've made.

>From this XML it should be reasonably simple to generate a Python
class hierarchy, I think. Moreover, there's fields in the XML for
things like command IDs and such, so you could then easily inherit
these classes in your application.

You'd get a class hierarchy like
class MacOSButton:	# standard class with button behaviour
    # standard methods for buttons like set(), get(), etc.
class Button_name(MacOSButton, AppButton_name):	# Generated from the XML
    title = "push me"
class AppButton_name:	# In your application
    def push_callback(...):
        # Your callback method
    etc...

To make things even more interesting we could probably also turn the
XML into Rez input, so the dialog works on Pre-Carbon macs too. Or we
could replace the MacOSButton base class with a Win32Button and
generate the windows .rc file and have the base for a Windows program.
And the same probably for other GUI packages...

That the file format is XML makes a lot of things easier. There is
good support for XML in Python, and there are various tools around to
massage XML. This you could use to do, say, platform-specific edits on 
the XML (based on names or id's or even labels of the ui elements)
automatically. You could also use it to do checks (make sure every
command used in your app has a button, and make sure every button has
a command).

If people are interested in this sort of thing: let me know. I can
probably invest some time into it in the near future: we have to do a
gazilion new dialogs for Windows and Mac for GRiNS, and the current
process is rather painful, so if I can speed it up with a bit of work
ahead I can justify the time. Doing this all by myself if probably not 
going to work, but with a few hands we might come up with something
nifty in a reasonable timeframe.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From cbarker@jps.net  Fri Mar 16 23:45:34 2001
From: cbarker@jps.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:45:34 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] InterfaceBuilder, wxPython, tkinter & other GUIs
References: <20010316230437.C7490EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <3AB2A59E.162AE157@jps.net>

Jack Jansen wrote:

>it has one feature
> for which I can really see great opportunities: the main output file
> is an XML definition of the dialogs, windows, etc that you've made.

> To make things even more interesting we could probably also turn the
> XML into Rez input, so the dialog works on Pre-Carbon macs too. Or we
> could replace the MacOSButton base class with a Win32Button and
> generate the windows .rc file and have the base for a Windows program.
> And the same probably for other GUI packages...

wxWindows is going to a XML based dialog resource format as well. This
may have possibilities...

> We have to do a
> gazilion new dialogs for Windows and Mac for GRiNS, and the current
> process is rather painful, so if I can speed it up with a bit of work
> ahead I can justify the time.

Jack, I didn't realise that you work on a multi-platform app. How do you
guys handle the (at least) three different versions of GUI code that you
need? Do you use a X-platform toolbox? From what you said above, it
sounds like you do it all three times. Have you considered a
Cross-Platform toolbox instead?

-Chris

-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From jack@oratrix.nl  Sat Mar 17 21:06:13 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 22:06:13 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] InterfaceBuilder, wxPython, tkinter & other GUIs
In-Reply-To: Message by Chris Barker <cbarker@jps.net> ,
 Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:45:34 -0800 , <3AB2A59E.162AE157@jps.net>
Message-ID: <20010317210618.E9CB5EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Chris Barker <cbarker@jps.net> said:
> Jack, I didn't realise that you work on a multi-platform app. How do you
> guys handle the (at least) three different versions of GUI code that you
> need? Do you use a X-platform toolbox? From what you said above, it
> sounds like you do it all three times. Have you considered a
> Cross-Platform toolbox instead?

We've considered a cross-platform solution, but they're simply not
powerful enough. At least: they weren't the last time we
checked. GRiNS is an authoring/playback system for the W3C SMIL
multimedia language, and this means we need to be able to use
Quicktime (and RealNetworks playback, and DirectX), and this wasn't
available.

For non-dialog things like our player (and also some of the data
views) we've created our own abstraction called "windowinterface" that 
provides a common interface to windows, drawing, colors, etc. but
still allows access to the underlying APIs (for use by movie
renderers, for instance).

For dialogs it's a mess: we have to redesign them on all platforms
(currently Mac and Windows, because we simply lack the manpower to
keep the Unix port up-to-date). Menu's and commands are a bit better:
windowinterface has an abstraction that allows you to create
almost-portable menubars, and the command structure (and when to
enable/disable menus, etc) is machine-independent.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From redbird@rbisland.cx  Mon Mar 19 02:15:48 2001
From: redbird@rbisland.cx (Gordon Worley)
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 21:15:48 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] BuildApplication error in 2.1b1
Message-ID: <f05001901b6db18c41e63@[10.0.1.2]>

Python 2.1b1's BuildApplication is giving me the following error when 
it is Carbonized:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "Scooby:Python 2.1b1:Mac:scripts:BuildApplication.py", line 146, in ?
     main()
   File "Scooby:Python 2.1b1:Mac:scripts:BuildApplication.py", line 51, in main
     buildapplication()
   File "Scooby:Python 2.1b1:Mac:scripts:BuildApplication.py", line 
86, in buildapplication
     macgen_bin.generate(filename, dstfilename, None, architecture, 1)
   File "Scooby:Python 2.1b1:Mac:Tools:macfreeze:macgen_bin.py", line 
37, in generate
     dynamicmodules, dynamicfiles, extraresfiles = 
findfragments(module_dict, architecture)
   File "Scooby:Python 2.1b1:Mac:Tools:macfreeze:macgen_bin.py", line 
99, in findfragments
     ppcfile, cfm68kfile = makefilenames(filename)
   File "Scooby:Python 2.1b1:Mac:Tools:macfreeze:macgen_bin.py", line 
169, in makefilenames
     raise ValueError, "can't make ppc/cfm68k filenames"
ValueError: can't make ppc/cfm68k filenames

There is no problem with the classic BuildApplication.

I am running under OS 9, so maybe the Carbon version works under OS X.

Also, am I correct in that there is some kind of error with dropping 
files on running applications?  When my application is closed and I 
drop a file on it, it's fine, but when it is running and I drop a 
file on it, there is an error message about a high level event.  I'll 
save the exact error for if it turns out to be just my code and not a 
Python thing, but the IDE has done this to me, too.
-- 
Gordon Worley
http://www.rbisland.cx/
mailto:redbird@rbisland.cx
PGP Fingerprint:  C462 FA84 B811 3501 9010  20D2 6EF3 77F7 BBD3 B003


From TattooMabonzoK.  Sat Mar 17 12:25:05 2001
From: TattooMabonzoK. (TattooMabonzoK.)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 13:25:05 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] InterfaceBuilder, wxPython, tkinter & other GUIs
In-Reply-To: <20010316230437.C7490EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <1227133613-20068229@microscript.net>

On Saturday, March 17, 2001, at 12:04 , Jack Jansen wrote:

> I've been playing around with InterfaceBuilder yesterday and today,
> and I must say that I'm really excited about the possibilities.
>
>

[snip]

> `If people are interested in this sort of thing: let me know. I can

Count me in.

FWIW: I'd suggest the following reading re:Interface Builder
<http://www.stepwise.com/Articles/Technical/FreezeDriedObjects.html>

= tmk =

> probably invest some time into it in the near future: we have to do a
> gazilion new dialogs for Windows and Mac for GRiNS, and the current
> process is rather painful, so if I can speed it up with a bit of work
> ahead I can justify the time. Doing this all by myself if probably not
> going to work, but with a few hands we might come up with something
> nifty in a reasonable timeframe.
> --
> Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
> Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig 
> ++++
> www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.
> htm
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
>



From alczj@yahoo.es  Tue Mar 20 09:39:22 2001
From: alczj@yahoo.es (=?iso-8859-1?q?Alfonso=20Baciero?=)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:39:22 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problems in Python 2.1b1 Classic with telnetlib and getpass
Message-ID: <20010320093922.4102.qmail@web5204.mail.yahoo.com>

I have installed Python 2.1b1 Classic, and I have had
problems with Python modules getpass and telnetlib:

With getpass, the simple program:

#### gp.py
import getpass
passwd=getpass.getpass('password: ')
####  end of gp.py

didn´t work, with the next error messages:

macintosh hd:aplicaciones:python
2.1b1:lib:termios.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the
TERMIOS module is deprecated; please use termios
  DeprecationWarning)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "Macintosh HD:Desktop Folder:python:gp.py",
line 4, in ?
    passwd=getpass.getpass('password: ')
  File "macintosh hd:aplicaciones:python
2.1b1:lib:getpass.py", line 30, in unix_getpass
    old = termios.tcgetattr(fd)     # a copy to save
AttributeError: 'termios' module has no attribute
'tcgetattr'



For telnetlib I ran the next program:

#### ls.py
import telnetlib

host=raw_input('host: ')
tn = telnetlib.Telnet(host)

userid=raw_input('login: ')
tn.read_until("login: ")
tn.write(userid + "\n")

tn.read_until("Password:")
passwd=raw_input('password: ')
tn.write(passwd + "\n")
tn.write('exit\n')

tn.write("ls -l \n")
buf=tn.read_all()
#### end of ls.py

and didn´t work. The program input/output was:

host: myhost
login: mylogin
password: mypassword
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "Macintosh HD:Desktop Folder:python:ls.py",
line 17, in ?
    buf=tn.read_all()
  File "macintosh hd:aplicaciones:python
2.1b1:lib:telnetlib.py", line 231, in read_all
    self.fill_rawq()
  File "macintosh hd:aplicaciones:python
2.1b1:lib:telnetlib.py", line 370, in fill_rawq
    buf = self.sock.recv(50)
socket.error: (57, 'Socket is not connected')

Both programs work fine with Python 1.5.2c1 for Mac
and BeOpen-Python 2.0 for Linux.

Alfonso.

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Envía mensajes instantáneos y recibe alertas de correo con 
Yahoo! Messenger - http://messenger.yahoo.es


From alczj@yahoo.es  Tue Mar 20 10:12:01 2001
From: alczj@yahoo.es (=?iso-8859-1?q?Alfonso=20Baciero?=)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:12:01 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problems in Python 2.1b1 Classic with telnetlib and getpass [corrected, please, ignore my previous message]
Message-ID: <20010320101201.6151.qmail@web5204.mail.yahoo.com>

I have installed Python 2.1b1 Classic, and I have had
problems with Python modules getpass and telnetlib:

With getpass, the simple program:

#### gp.py
import getpass
passwd=getpass.getpass('password: ')
####  end of gp.py

didn´t work, with the next error messages:

macintosh hd:aplicaciones:python
2.1b1:lib:termios.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the
TERMIOS module is deprecated; please use termios
  DeprecationWarning)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "Macintosh HD:Desktop Folder:python:gp.py",
line 2, in ?
    passwd=getpass.getpass('password: ')
  File "macintosh hd:aplicaciones:python
2.1b1:lib:getpass.py", line 30, in unix_getpass
    old = termios.tcgetattr(fd)     # a copy to save
AttributeError: 'termios' module has no attribute
'tcgetattr'



For telnetlib I ran the next program:

#### ls.py
import telnetlib

host=raw_input('host: ')
tn = telnetlib.Telnet(host)

userid=raw_input('login: ')
tn.read_until("login: ")
tn.write(userid + "\n")

tn.read_until("Password:")
passwd=raw_input('password: ')
tn.write(passwd + "\n")
tn.write("ls -l \n")
tn.write('exit\n')
buf=tn.read_all()
#### end of ls.py

and sometimes it worked, but sometimes, it didn´t
work. The program input/output when there was an error
was:

host: myhost
login: mylogin
password: mypassword
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "Macintosh HD:Desktop Folder:python:ls.py",
line 15, in ?
    buf=tn.read_all()
  File "macintosh hd:aplicaciones:python
2.1b1:lib:telnetlib.py", line 231, in read_all
    self.fill_rawq()
  File "macintosh hd:aplicaciones:python
2.1b1:lib:telnetlib.py", line 370, in fill_rawq
    buf = self.sock.recv(50)
socket.error: (57, 'Socket is not connected')

Both programs work fine with Python 1.5.2c1 for Mac
and BeOpen-Python 2.0 for Linux,

Alfonso.

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Envía mensajes instantáneos y recibe alertas de correo con 
Yahoo! Messenger - http://messenger.yahoo.es


From jack@oratrix.nl  Tue Mar 20 20:24:18 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 21:24:18 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problems in Python 2.1b1 Classic with telnetlib and getpass
In-Reply-To: Message by =?iso-8859-1?q?Alfonso=20Baciero?= <alczj@yahoo.es> ,
 Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:39:22 +0100 (CET) , <20010320093922.4102.qmail@web5204.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010320202423.DB4ECEA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, =?iso-8859-1?q?Alfonso=20Baciero?= <alczj@yahoo.es> said:
> I have installed Python 2.1b1 Classic, and I have had
> problems with Python modules getpass and telnetlib:
> 
> With getpass, the simple program:
> 
> #### gp.py
> import getpass
> passwd=getpass.getpass('password: ')
> ####  end of gp.py
> 
> didn´t work, with the next error messages:

Bah, Bah, Bah!

While I wasn't looking the Windows guys apparently broke the Macintosh 
uppercase/lowercase check in the Python import code:-(

The quick fix is to remove :Python:Lib:TERMIOS.py and TERMIOS.pyc. If
you want to know how on _earth_ this can fix getpass look at the
source:-) 
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Tue Mar 20 20:38:32 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 21:38:32 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] BuildApplication error in 2.1b1
In-Reply-To: Message by Gordon Worley <redbird@rbisland.cx> ,
 Sun, 18 Mar 2001 21:15:48 -0500 , <f05001901b6db18c41e63@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <20010320203837.71B51EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Gordon Worley <redbird@rbisland.cx> said:
> Python 2.1b1's BuildApplication is giving me the following error when 
> it is Carbonized:

Oops, BuildApplication doesn't know anything about Carbon yet.

I'll fix it for the next release.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


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From: biotechinfo2003@yahoo.com (biotechinfo2003@yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:09:55
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From Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de  Wed Mar 21 22:38:43 2001
From: Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de (Aureli Soria Frisch)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:38:43 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Distutils in MacPython 2.0?
In-Reply-To: <20010306231444.54F44EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <l03010d00b6dedd4e377e@[153.97.92.109]>

Hallo!

I am trying to install gnuplot.py in my computer and saw that it uses
distutils for the installation.

I could not find no reference to this tool in the MacPython and want to
know if 'distutils' are included in this version of Python (2.0) or maybe
in posteriors.

Thanks in advance
Aureli

#################################
Aureli Soria Frisch
Fraunhofer IPK
Dept. Pattern Recognition

post: Pascalstr. 8-9, 10587 Berlin, Germany
e-mail:aureli@ipk.fhg.de
fon: +49 30 39 00 61 50
fax: +49 30 39 17 517
#################################




From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Mar 22 13:06:04 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:06:04 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Distutils in MacPython 2.0?
In-Reply-To: Message by Aureli Soria Frisch <Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de> ,
 Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:38:43 +0100 , <l03010d00b6dedd4e377e@[153.97.92.109]>
Message-ID: <20010322130609.D8966EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Aureli Soria Frisch <Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de> said:
> Hallo!
> 
> I am trying to install gnuplot.py in my computer and saw that it uses
> distutils for the installation.
> 
> I could not find no reference to this tool in the MacPython and want to
> know if 'distutils' are included in this version of Python (2.0) or maybe
> in posteriors.

Distutils is included in MacPython 2.1. If you could try downloading
the 2.1b1 distribution from http://www.cwi.nl/ftp/python/mac and check 
whether it can handle the gnuplot installer you would do me a great favor!
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From fgranger@altern.org  Thu Mar 22 15:00:19 2001
From: fgranger@altern.org (Francois Granger)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:00:19 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Distutils in MacPython 2.0?
In-Reply-To: <20010322130609.D8966EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <B6DFD213.719C%fgranger@altern.org>

on 22/03/01 14:06, Jack Jansen at jack@oratrix.nl wrote:

> If you could try downloading
> the 2.1b1 distribution from http://www.cwi.nl/ftp/python/mac and check
> whether it can handle the gnuplot installer you would do me a great favor!

It is in 
http://www.cwi.nl/ftp/jack/python/mac/MacPython21b1full.hqx



From Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de  Thu Mar 22 16:46:48 2001
From: Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de (Aureli Soria Frisch)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:46:48 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Distutils in MacPython 2.0?
In-Reply-To: <20010322130609.D8966EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
References: Message by Aureli Soria Frisch
 <Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de> ,	     Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:38:43 +0100 ,
 <l03010d00b6dedd4e377e@[153.97.92.109]>
Message-ID: <l03010d09b6dfdb8c31ed@[153.97.92.109]>

Hi

>
>Distutils is included in MacPython 2.1. If you could try downloading
>the 2.1b1 distribution from http://www.cwi.nl/ftp/python/mac and check
>whether it can handle the gnuplot installer you would do me a great favor!

The installation was succesful (MacOS 8.6 &CarbonLib 1.2.5). Though it
seems that no Numerical Library is included (no directory in Extensions)
and no Developper Kit (both options were ticked in the installation).

I made 'import test' and no test was run, nothing happened.

The installation of Gnuplot was succesful. Nevertheless when I try to
initialize a Gnuplot application  the following error is prompted
(including the Numerical library  manually do not change anything):

>>> gn=Gnuplot.Gnuplot()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "Macintosh HD:Compiler:Python
2.1b1:Lib:site-packages:Gnuplot:_Gnuplot.py", line 186, in __init__
    self.gnuplot = gp.GnuplotProcess(persist=persist)
  File "Macintosh HD:Compiler:Python
2.1b1:Lib:site-packages:Gnuplot:gp_mac.py", line 103, in __init__
    self.gnuplot = _GNUPLOT()
  File "Macintosh HD:Compiler:Python
2.1b1:Lib:site-packages:Gnuplot:gp_mac.py", line 77, in __init__
    aetools.TalkTo.__init__(self, 'GPSE', start=1)
  File "macintosh hd:compiler:python 2.1b1:mac:lib:lib-toolbox:aetools.py",
line 160, in __init__
    self.start()
  File "macintosh hd:compiler:python 2.1b1:mac:lib:lib-toolbox:aetools.py",
line 164, in start
    _launch(self.target_signature)
  File "macintosh hd:compiler:python 2.1b1:mac:lib:lib-toolbox:aetools.py",
line 243, in _launch
    _finder.open(_application_file(('ID  ', appfile)))
  File "macintosh hd:compiler:python 2.1b1:mac:lib:lib-toolbox:aetools.py",
line 233, in open
    raise Error, decodeerror(_arguments)
aetools.Error: (-1728, 'e.g.,: specifier asked for the 3rd, but there are
only 2. Basically, this indicates a run-time resolution error.', None)
>>>

Regards,

#################################
Aureli Soria Frisch
Fraunhofer IPK
Dept. Pattern Recognition

post: Pascalstr. 8-9, 10587 Berlin, Germany
e-mail:aureli@ipk.fhg.de
fon: +49 30 39 00 61 50
fax: +49 30 39 17 517
#################################




From lmeyn@mail.arc.nasa.gov  Thu Mar 22 18:56:52 2001
From: lmeyn@mail.arc.nasa.gov (Larry Meyn)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:56:52 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Gnuplot Installation
In-Reply-To: <l03010d09b6dfdb8c31ed@[153.97.92.109]>
References: Message by Aureli Soria Frisch
 <Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de> ,	     Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:38:43 +0100 ,
 <l03010d00b6dedd4e377e@[153.97.92.109]>
 <l03010d09b6dfdb8c31ed@[153.97.92.109]>
Message-ID: <p04330102b6dff89f0fce@[128.102.170.15]>

I needed to do a few hacks to get Gnuplot.py version 1.5 to run under MacPython 2.1.  First in gp_mac.py (in the Gnuplot folder) the following code was changed from:

class _GNUPLOT(aetools.TalkTo,
               Required_Suite.Required_Suite,
               gnuplot_Suites.gnuplot_Suite,
               gnuplot_Suites.odds_and_ends,
               gnuplot_Suites.Standard_Suite,
               gnuplot_Suites.Miscellaneous_Events):
    """Start a gnuplot program and emulate a pipe to it."""

    def __init__(self):
        aetools.TalkTo.__init__(self, 'GPSE', start=1)

to:

class _GNUPLOT(aetools.TalkTo,
               Required_Suite.Required_Suite_Events,
               gnuplot_Suites.gnuplot_Suite,
               gnuplot_Suites.odds_and_ends,
               gnuplot_Suites.Standard_Suite,
               gnuplot_Suites.Miscellaneous_Events):
    """Start a gnuplot program and emulate a pipe to it."""

    def __init__(self):
        aetools.TalkTo.__init__(self, '{GP}', start=1)

(Note the use of Required_Suite.Required_Suite_Events and '{GP}' )

I also needed to modify Required_Suite.py in the MacPython 2.1 distribution.  It had no methods for open, print, run, and quit so I copied them from Standard_Suite.py (I don't know if this is the best solution, but it was expedient.)  Following these changes the set up and demo scripts in Gnuplot seemed to run fine.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Larry Meyn
Aerospace Operations Modeling Office

M/S 210-10                         Phone:  (650) 604-5038
NASA Ames Research Center          FAX:    (650) 604-0222
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000       email:  lmeyn@mail.arc.nasa.gov
------------------------------------------------------------------


From adv.files@robbstucky.com  Thu Mar 22 19:04:43 2001
From: adv.files@robbstucky.com (Advertising)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:04:43 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Newbie needs Clues
Message-ID: <200103221858.KAA11703@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Hi, I'm looking for some clues. Can somebody point me in the right 
direction?


I have installed Debian GNU/Linux on a Quadra800 (so it's not a Mac 
anymore)
I have it sharing one "Folder" as an AppleShare netAtalk Fileserver.


I want to......

   ...have a python app on the LinuxBox that monitors the shared "Folder."

   A MacUser will network copy a file into the LinuxBox's shared"Folder"

   The pythonApp will wait until the copy is completed and then 
   do something, such as move the file from the shared"Folder" somewhere 
else.


I'm confused as to how to tell when the network copying is finished, and 
the file is safe to move.
(My python books cover file permissions, ownership, etc but all examples 
are based on a single user / single machine / python as the only running 
app / paradigm)


I am self-taught and my programming experience is limited to AppleScript.
As such, my techniques & thinking have been formulated as work-arounds to 
AppleScript's many many shortcomings. (Such as waiting for an 
appleShareClient's FinderCopy to Finish)

I'm sure there is a straightforward way of doing things like this in a 
Pythonesque / Multi-platform manner.



Thanks a bunch,
Lane


From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Mar 22 20:31:35 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:31:35 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Gnuplot Installation
In-Reply-To: Message by Larry Meyn <lmeyn@mail.arc.nasa.gov> ,
 Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:56:52 -0800 , <p04330102b6dff89f0fce@[128.102.170.15]>
Message-ID: <20010322203140.99A67EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Hmm, you're right: the Required_Suite module is empty and the
Standard_Suite module contains the events that, according to the
documentation I have, should be in the Required Suite.

These suites were generated from Apple's own AETE resources, so at
least I have a good excuse why they don't work:-)

Does anyknow have an idea why Apple would have put the events in the
wrong suite? Or has the documentation been updated since I last read it?
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Mar 22 20:38:25 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:38:25 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Newbie needs Clues
In-Reply-To: Message by Advertising <adv.files@robbstucky.com> ,
 Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:04:43 -0500 , <200103221858.KAA11703@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20010322203830.91A16EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

This is more a Linux question than a Mac question, so you may get
better ideas if you ask in the general Python groups. Or even linux
groups.

But here's my $.10: in general there is no failsafe way to determine
whether a file is still being copied to on Unix. There are, however, a 
few things you could try:
- Try to lock the file. If the netAtalk server happens to use locking
this will work, and if you manage to lock the file it means the copy
has finished.
- Look at the modification time. Some unixes (don't know about Linux)
continually update the timestamp while the file is open for writing.
- Even if that doesn't work you could put a "reasonable" delay on the
modification time, i.e. if the file hasn't been modified in 20 seconds 
we assume it's complete.
- If you have control over the Mac side (i.e. because people use a
program of yours or an applescript to drop the file in the shared
folder) you could do the copy to a different filename ("tmp.NNNNN")
and then move that file to the final name when it's done. Then just
skip the tmp. files on the server side.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From lmeyn@mail.arc.nasa.gov  Thu Mar 22 21:06:55 2001
From: lmeyn@mail.arc.nasa.gov (Larry Meyn)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:06:55 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Gnuplot Installation Addendum
Message-ID: <p04330103b6e0183e7dda@[128.102.170.15]>

There are two more changes needed in addition to those previously.


change gp_mac.py, line 42 from:

	default_term = 'macintosh'

to: 
	default_term = 'pict'


gnuplot_Suites.py, line 27 from:

	_code = 'GPSE'

to:
	_code = '{GP}'
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Larry Meyn
Aerospace Operations Modeling Office

M/S 210-10                         Phone:  (650) 604-5038
NASA Ames Research Center          FAX:    (650) 604-0222
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000       email:  lmeyn@mail.arc.nasa.gov
------------------------------------------------------------------


From Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de  Fri Mar 23 11:34:51 2001
From: Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de (Aureli Soria Frisch)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:34:51 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Gnuplot Installation
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b6dff89f0fce@[128.102.170.15]>
References: <l03010d09b6dfdb8c31ed@[153.97.92.109]> Message by Aureli
 Soria Frisch <Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de> ,	     Wed, 21 Mar 2001
 23:38:43 +0100 , <l03010d00b6dedd4e377e@[153.97.92.109]>
 <l03010d09b6dfdb8c31ed@[153.97.92.109]>
Message-ID: <l03010d01b6e0e3c85f06@[153.97.92.109]>

At 10:56 Uhr -0800 22.03.2001, Larry Meyn wrote:
>I needed to do a few hacks to get Gnuplot.py version 1.5 to run under
>MacPython 2.1.  First in gp_mac.py (in the Gnuplot folder) the following
>code was changed from:
>
>class _GNUPLOT(aetools.TalkTo,
>               Required_Suite.Required_Suite,
>               gnuplot_Suites.gnuplot_Suite,
>               gnuplot_Suites.odds_and_ends,
>               gnuplot_Suites.Standard_Suite,
>               gnuplot_Suites.Miscellaneous_Events):
>    """Start a gnuplot program and emulate a pipe to it."""
>
>    def __init__(self):
>        aetools.TalkTo.__init__(self, 'GPSE', start=1)
>
>to:
>
>class _GNUPLOT(aetools.TalkTo,
>               Required_Suite.Required_Suite_Events,
>               gnuplot_Suites.gnuplot_Suite,
>               gnuplot_Suites.odds_and_ends,
>               gnuplot_Suites.Standard_Suite,
>               gnuplot_Suites.Miscellaneous_Events):
>    """Start a gnuplot program and emulate a pipe to it."""
>
>    def __init__(self):
>        aetools.TalkTo.__init__(self, '{GP}', start=1)
>
>(Note the use of Required_Suite.Required_Suite_Events and '{GP}' )
>
>I also needed to modify Required_Suite.py in the MacPython 2.1
>distribution.  It had no methods for open,
>print, run, and quit so I copied them from Standard_Suite.py (I don't know
>if this is the best solution, but
>it was expedient.)  Following these changes the set up and demo scripts in
>Gnuplot seemed to run fine.
>
There is 2 Required_Suite modules in the distribution; one in the directory
Mac:Lib:lib-scriptpackages:StdSuites and ahother one in
Mac:Lib:lib-scripting. The one in StdSuites does not have declarations for
open,print, run and quit. The one in the other one does, but it does not
have any declaration for Required_Suite_Events.

So I did the modifications (no copy from Standard_Suite) and run it (using
the module in lib-scripting). An AttributeError was prompted (no
Required_Suite_Events found).


And another question: is that normal Numerical not being installed in
Extensions?

Thanks,
Aureli

#################################
Aureli Soria Frisch
Fraunhofer IPK
Dept. Pattern Recognition

post: Pascalstr. 8-9, 10587 Berlin, Germany
e-mail:aureli@ipk.fhg.de
fon: +49 30 39 00 61 50
fax: +49 30 39 17 517
#################################




From Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de  Fri Mar 23 11:39:30 2001
From: Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de (Aureli Soria Frisch)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:39:30 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Test MacPython 2.1b1
Message-ID: <l03010d02b6e0e600e459@[153.97.92.109]>

Hi


The installation was succesful (MacOS 8.6 &CarbonLib 1.2.5). Though it
seems that no Numerical Library is included (no directory in Extensions)
and no Developper Kit (both options were ticked in the installation).

>I made 'import test' and no test was run, nothing happened.

Sorry, I am not so experienced. I run autotest.py today and 101 test were
OK, and 2 failed.

Regards

#################################
Aureli Soria Frisch
Fraunhofer IPK
Dept. Pattern Recognition

post: Pascalstr. 8-9, 10587 Berlin, Germany
e-mail:aureli@ipk.fhg.de
fon: +49 30 39 00 61 50
fax: +49 30 39 17 517
#################################




From jack@oratrix.nl  Fri Mar 23 12:41:02 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:41:02 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Distutils in MacPython 2.0?
In-Reply-To: Message by Aureli Soria Frisch <Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de> ,
 Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:46:48 +0100 , <l03010d09b6dfdb8c31ed@[153.97.92.109]>
Message-ID: <20010323124103.E898336B2C2@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> The installation was succesful (MacOS 8.6 &CarbonLib 1.2.5). Though it
> seems that no Numerical Library is included (no directory in Extensions)
> and no Developper Kit (both options were ticked in the installation).

The Numerical library has moved: it is now in Python:Lib:site-python.

About the developer kit not being loaded: are you sure? If you have a 
Python:Include with various things in there the developer kit is loaded.

Is anyone else having problems installing the developer kit?
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From fgranger@mail.dotcom.fr  Fri Mar 23 16:44:54 2001
From: fgranger@mail.dotcom.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Granger)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:44:54 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Buttons in W
Message-ID: <v04210100b6e12c43b13f@[213.228.24.89]>

This is my first attempt at using the W module.

As an exercise, I am trying to program the game "TicTacToe".

My idea is to do a set of identical buttons in 3 row by three column. 
My problem is to write a call back function for all these button wich 
can detect wich one was clicked.

some ugly code below, thanks for any input.


import W
w = W.Window((400, 400), "Hello!", minsize = (240, 200))
def bpStart():
	"""
	check radioButton status and set variables accordingly
	"""
	print "Hello World!"

Token = 'O'
def bpCase():
	"""
	handle the click on one location
	"""
	for i in range(3):
		for j in range(3):
			# here i need to get i,j when that is the 
button just clicked.
			print w[i, j]._activated
			if w[i, j]._activated:
				print i,j
				b = i,j
	# here i will use b for other purposes
	w[b]._title = token


stepb = 16
for i in range(3):
	for j in range(3):
		w[i,j] = W.Button((20 + i * stepb,20 + j * 
stepb,stepb,stepb), "X", bpCase)

w.open()
-- 
"Faites des phrases courtes. Un sujet, un verbe, un complément. Quand 
vous voudrez ajouter un adjectif, vous viendrez me voir." - Georges 
Clemenceau, 1841-1929, médecin et homme politique français. Consignes 
aux journalistes de "L'Aurore". d'après 
<http://www.sit.ulaval.ca/pagespersonnelles/phf/pensee.html> 


From cbarker@jps.net  Fri Mar 23 17:30:31 2001
From: cbarker@jps.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:30:31 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Newbie needs Clues
References: <20010322203830.91A16EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <3ABB8837.70898B96@jps.net>

You didn't ask this, but if you are going to have your Python program
running on the Linux box monitoring the directory constantly, you will
want to have it running as a "deamon". Look in the archives of
comp.lang.python, this topic has been discussed. IF you have your script
runing regularly, in a loop, constantly looking for new files in the
folder, it will eat up a LOT of CPU, even though it is mostly doing
nothing.


Jack Jansen wrote:
> - If you have control over the Mac side (i.e. because people use a
> program of yours or an applescript to drop the file in the shared
> folder) you could do the copy to a different filename ("tmp.NNNNN")
> and then move that file to the final name when it's done. Then just
> skip the tmp. files on the server side.

If you are doing this (using a custom program to copy the files from the
Mac to the Linux box) then you could also have your custom program start
up the Python script on the Linux box, after you have copied the file
(you would want to use rsh, or ssh, or something like that). This would
solve both the problem of knowing when the copy was finished, and also
the running as a deamon issue.

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From lmeyn@mail.arc.nasa.gov  Fri Mar 23 17:57:34 2001
From: lmeyn@mail.arc.nasa.gov (Larry Meyn)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:57:34 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Gnuplot Installation
In-Reply-To: <l03010d01b6e0e3c85f06@[153.97.92.109]>
References: <l03010d09b6dfdb8c31ed@[153.97.92.109]> Message by Aureli
 Soria Frisch <Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de> ,	     Wed, 21 Mar 2001
 23:38:43 +0100 , <l03010d00b6dedd4e377e@[153.97.92.109]>
 <l03010d09b6dfdb8c31ed@[153.97.92.109]>
 <l03010d01b6e0e3c85f06@[153.97.92.109]>
Message-ID: <p04330101b6e13b7a3b7e@[198.123.22.170]>

--============_-1226752156==_ma============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

>There is 2 Required_Suite modules in the distribution; one in the directory
>Mac:Lib:lib-scriptpackages:StdSuites and ahother one in
>Mac:Lib:lib-scripting. The one in StdSuites does not have declarations for
>open,print, run and quit. The one in the other one does, but it does not
>have any declaration for Required_Suite_Events.
>
>So I did the modifications (no copy from Standard_Suite) and run it (using
>the module in lib-scripting). An AttributeError was prompted (no
>Required_Suite_Events found).


A quick check of EditPythonPrefs shows that the original paths are set to:

$(PYTHON):Mac:PlugIns
$(PYTHON):Mac:Lib
$(PYTHON):Mac:Lib:lib-toolbox
$(PYTHON):Mac:Lib:lib-scriptpackages
$(PYTHON):Lib
$(PYTHON):Extensions:img:Mac
$(PYTHON):Extensions:img:Lib
$(PYTHON):Extensions:Imaging:PIL
$(PYTHON):Lib:lib-tk
$(PYTHON):Lib:site-packages

So my interpreter was finding the Required_Suite.py in 
Mac:Lib:lib-scriptpackages:StdSuites.  I notice that the one in 
Mac:Lib:lib-scripting has the class Required_Suite which has methods 
for open, quit, _print and run.  (Curiously Standard-Suite.py in the 
same folder includes methods for open, quit and _print, with no 
method for run.) If you are going to use the Required_Suite.py module 
in Mac:Lib:lib-scripting you will have to chnage the line:

Required_Suite.Required_Suite_Events,

in gp_mac.py back to:

Required_Suite.Required_Suite,

Larry
--============_-1226752156==_ma============
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { margin-top: 0 ; margin-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Gnuplot
Installation</title></head><body>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>There is 2 Required_Suite modules in the
distribution; one in the directory</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Mac:Lib:lib-scriptpackages:StdSuites and
ahother one in</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Mac:Lib:lib-scripting. The one in
StdSuites does not have declarations for<br>
open,print, run and quit. The one in the other one does, but it does
not<br>
have any declaration for Required_Suite_Events.<br>
<br>
So I did the modifications (no copy from Standard_Suite) and run it
(using<br>
the module in lib-scripting). An AttributeError was prompted
(no</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Required_Suite_Events
found).</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>A quick check of EditPythonPrefs shows that the original paths
are set to:</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>$(PYTHON):Mac:PlugIns<br>
$(PYTHON):Mac:Lib<br>
$(PYTHON):Mac:Lib:lib-toolbox</div>
<div>$(PYTHON):Mac:Lib:lib-scriptpackages<br>
$(PYTHON):Lib<br>
$(PYTHON):Extensions:img:Mac<br>
$(PYTHON):Extensions:img:Lib<br>
$(PYTHON):Extensions:Imaging:PIL<br>
$(PYTHON):Lib:lib-tk</div>
<div>$(PYTHON):Lib:site-packages</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>So my interpreter was finding the Required_Suite.py in
Mac:Lib:lib-scriptpackages:StdSuites.&nbsp; I notice that the one in
Mac:Lib:lib-scripting has the class Required_Suite which has methods
for open, quit, _print and run.&nbsp; (Curiously Standard-Suite.py in
the same folder includes methods for open, quit and _print, with no
method for run.) If you are going to use the Required_Suite.py module
in Mac:Lib:lib-scripting you will have to chnage the line:</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote>Required_Suite.Required_Suite_Events,</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>in gp_mac.py back to:</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote>Required_Suite.Required_Suite,</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Larry</div>
</body>
</html>
--============_-1226752156==_ma============--


From just@letterror.com  Fri Mar 23 18:47:01 2001
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:47:01 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Buttons in W
In-Reply-To: <v04210100b6e12c43b13f@[213.228.24.89]>
Message-ID: <l03102802b6e149a0228c@[10.69.17.73]>

At 5:44 PM +0100 23-03-2001, Fran=E7ois Granger wrote:
>This is my first attempt at using the W module.
>
>As an exercise, I am trying to program the game "TicTacToe".
>
>My idea is to do a set of identical buttons in 3 row by three column.
>My problem is to write a call back function for all these button wich
>can detect wich one was clicked.
>
>some ugly code below, thanks for any input.

My usual trick is to work with default arguments. Ugly, but works. Small
example:

import W

w =3D W.Window((400, 400), "Test")

for i in range(5):
	def callback(buttonNumber=3Di):
		print "button", buttonNumber, "was pressed"
	w[i] =3D W.Button((10, 10 + 24 * i, 60, 18),
		"Button #%s" % i, callback)
w.open()


Just

PS: the w attrs starting with an underscore are sortof private: you should
try to avoid using them.

=2E . . . .
new address:
  Hasselaersplein 7
  2013 GB Haarlem
T +31 23 5427754
=46 +31 23 5427217




From fgranger@altern.org  Fri Mar 23 19:00:28 2001
From: fgranger@altern.org (Francois Granger)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 20:00:28 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] (progress) Buttons in W
In-Reply-To: <v04210100b6e12c43b13f@[213.228.24.89]>
References: <v04210100b6e12c43b13f@[213.228.24.89]>
Message-ID: <v04210102b6e14d627984@[213.228.24.89]>

At 17:44 +0100 23/03/01, in message [Pythonmac-SIG] Buttons in W, 
François Granger wrote:
>This is my first attempt at using the W module.
>
>As an exercise, I am trying to program the game "TicTacToe".
>
>My idea is to do a set of identical buttons in 3 row by three 
>column. My problem is to write a call back function for all these 
>button wich can detect wich one was clicked.

I did some progress ;-)
But I don't know if it is any good.

# python

import W
w = W.Window((400, 400), "Hello!", minsize = (240, 200))
def bpStart():
	"""
	check radioButton status and set variables accordingly
	"""
	print "Hello World!"

token = 'O'
def bpCase(i,j):
	"""
	handle the click on one button
	"""
	print i,j
	w[i, j]._title = token

stepb = 16
bpCall = {}
for i in range(3):
	for j in range(3):
		bpCall[i,j] = lambda x = i, y = j : bpCase(x, y)
		w[i,j] = W.Button((20 + i * stepb,20 + j * 
stepb,stepb,stepb), "X", bpCall[i,j])

w.open()

-- 
"Faites des phrases courtes. Un sujet, un verbe, un complément. Quand 
vous voudrez ajouter un adjectif, vous viendrez me voir." - Georges 
Clemenceau, 1841-1929, médecin et homme politique français. Consignes 
aux journalistes de "L'Aurore". d'après 
<http://www.sit.ulaval.ca/pagespersonnelles/phf/pensee.html> 


From francois.granger@free.fr  Fri Mar 23 19:05:18 2001
From: francois.granger@free.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Granger)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 20:05:18 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Buttons in W
In-Reply-To: <l03102802b6e149a0228c@[10.69.17.73]>
References: <l03102802b6e149a0228c@[10.69.17.73]>
Message-ID: <v04210103b6e14e4cb08f@[213.228.24.89]>

At 19:47 +0100 23/03/01, in message Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Buttons in W, 
Just van Rossum wrote:

Thanks for fast answer.
>
>My usual trick is to work with default arguments. Ugly, but works. Small
>example:
>
>import W
>
>w = W.Window((400, 400), "Test")
>
>for i in range(5):
>	def callback(buttonNumber=i):
>		print "button", buttonNumber, "was pressed"
>	w[i] = W.Button((10, 10 + 24 * i, 60, 18),
>		"Button #%s" % i, callback)
>w.open()

I thought of this. I did not tested it because it was sayd that the 
call back was called with no argument. And I did not though further 
;-)

>PS: the w attrs starting with an underscore are sortof private: you should
>try to avoid using them.

Yes, I know, but that is because I don't yet know "the right thing to do".

For exemple, I need to be able to change the button name after 
creation. How do I do ?

-- 
"Faites des phrases courtes. Un sujet, un verbe, un complément. Quand 
vous voudrez ajouter un adjectif, vous viendrez me voir." - Georges 
Clemenceau, 1841-1929, médecin et homme politique français. Consignes 
aux journalistes de "L'Aurore". d'après 
<http://www.sit.ulaval.ca/pagespersonnelles/phf/pensee.html> 


From just@letterror.com  Fri Mar 23 19:19:22 2001
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 20:19:22 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Buttons in W
In-Reply-To: <v04210103b6e14e4cb08f@[213.228.24.89]>
References: <l03102802b6e149a0228c@[10.69.17.73]>
 <l03102802b6e149a0228c@[10.69.17.73]>
Message-ID: <l03102803b6e151db1263@[10.69.17.73]>

>For exemple, I need to be able to change the button name after
>creation. How do I do ?

button.settitle("NewTitle")

Just

=2E . . . .
new address:
  Hasselaersplein 7
  2013 GB Haarlem
T +31 23 5427754
=46 +31 23 5427217




From cwebster@nevada.edu  Fri Mar 23 19:22:23 2001
From: cwebster@nevada.edu (Corran Webster)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 11:22:23 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Buttons in W
In-Reply-To: <v04210100b6e12c43b13f@[213.228.24.89]>
References: <v04210100b6e12c43b13f@[213.228.24.89]>
Message-ID: <f05001901b6e14775866e@[131.216.77.14]>

At 5:44 PM +0100 23/3/01, Fran=E7ois Granger wrote:
>This is my first attempt at using the W module.

If you haven't already discovered it, you may find my tutorial on W usefu=
l:

http://www.nevada.edu/~cwebster/Python/WWidgets/index.html

In particular, you may find some of the tricks used in the calculator=20
example to be helpful, as there are some common features with what=20
you want to do:

http://www.nevada.edu/~cwebster/Python/WWidgets/calculator.html

>As an exercise, I am trying to program the game "TicTacToe".
>
>My idea is to do a set of identical buttons in 3 row by three=20
>column. My problem is to write a call back function for all these=20
>button wich can detect wich one was clicked.
>
>some ugly code below, thanks for any input.

[snip]

>Token =3D 'O'
>def bpCase():
>	"""
>	handle the click on one location
>	"""
>	for i in range(3):
>		for j in range(3):
>			# here i need to get i,j when that is the=20
>button just clicked.
>			print w[i, j]._activated
>			if w[i, j]._activated:
>				print i,j
>				b =3D i,j
>	# here i will use b for other purposes
>	w[b]._title =3D token

Your problem seems to be determining which button was clicked from=20
within the callback.  Probably the easiest way to deal with this is=20
to do the following:

def bpCase(i, j):
     global Token
     button =3D w[i,j]
     # do stuff with button:
     button.settitle(Token)  # show either "X" or "O"
     button.enable(0)        # make the button unclickable from now on
     # do stuff related to the game
     if Token =3D=3D "X":
         Token =3D "O"
     else:
         Token =3D "X"
     # some code to determine if we have a winner - maybe calling out to =
a
     # class holding game state or a function which checks for wins or dr=
aws.
     # You'll need to write this.

You then need to use a lambda with default arguments which calls=20
bpCase for your callback for each button:

>stepb =3D 16
>for i in range(3):
>	for j in range(3):
>		w[i,j] =3D W.Button((20 + i * stepb,20 + j *=20
>stepb,stepb,stepb), "X", bpCase)

The creation line then looks something like:

                 w[i,j] =3D W.Button((20 + i * stepb,20 + j * stepb,stepb=
,stepb),
                     "", lambda i=3Di, j=3Dj: bpCase(i,j))

Notice the magic "lambda i=3Di, j=3Dj: bpCase(i,j)" which makes the=20
callback know which button it is associated with.

As written, the above code allows two humans to play, but doesn't=20
determine a winner.  Once a button is clicked, it is disabled and is=20
greyed out.  A slightly better approach would be the following:

def bpCase(i, j):
     global Token
     button =3D w[i,j]
     # do stuff with button:
     if button.gettitle():
         return
     button.settitle(Token)  # show either "X" or "O"
     # do stuff related to the game
     if Token =3D=3D "X":
         Token =3D "O"
     else:
         Token =3D "X"
     # some code to determine if we have a winner - maybe calling out to =
a
     # class holding game state or a function which checks for wins or dr=
aws.
     # You'll need to write this.

A more elegant solution would probably be to subclass W.Button,=20
rather than using callbacks.  You would override the click() (and=20
possibly the push()) methods to do what you would normally do in the=20
callback, but now you don't have to worry about finding your button,=20
as it is available as "self".  This also allows a more elegent=20
solution to the disabling of the button - simply ignore clicks are=20
the state has been set.

Regards,
Corran



From loredo@astrosun.tn.cornell.edu  Fri Mar 23 21:36:44 2001
From: loredo@astrosun.tn.cornell.edu (Tom Loredo)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:36:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Gnuplot Installation
Message-ID: <200103232136.QAA20125@laplace.tn.cornell.edu>

Hi folks-

Larry, where were you a week ago when I was trying to sort all
of this out?  8-)

My impression was that the newest version of Mac Gnuplot (3.7) was
produced by different folks from the earlier version that the Python
interface was built for.  That older version had the GPSE creator code
for the Gnuplot application, and it also required you to have the Alpha
editor (which it used as its console).  The newer, cleaner, and
apparently more stable 3.7 version is stand-alone, and has a different
creator code: {GP}.  Because of this, I just presumed (perhaps
incorrectly) that I'd better not rely on the Mac code in Gnuplot.py
having the right Apple events to match with the new build.  So I
rebuilt the entire suite following Jack's instructions that come with
MacPython (I'm new to OSA, so I was surprised I got any of it to
work!).  A bit of hacking was required (in particular, somehow no
"Quit" event was defined by following the instructions---any idea
what's up with this?), but it seems to work.  I can post the suite on a
web site if there's interest.  I just can't make any promises that I
did it right!

BTW, this was all with MacPython 2.0.  I had no problems installing
Gnuplot.py with Distutils, though I did have to add a search path to
MacPython to get the RequiredSuites.  If you have the *old* Mac Gnuplot
on your hard drive, just running Gnuplot.py out of the box will run it
fine.  I only had to do what I described above so that I could use the
newer build.

-Tom Loredo



From lmeyn@mail.arc.nasa.gov  Fri Mar 23 22:20:49 2001
From: lmeyn@mail.arc.nasa.gov (Larry Meyn)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:20:49 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Gnuplot Installation
In-Reply-To: <200103232136.QAA20125@laplace.tn.cornell.edu>
References: <200103232136.QAA20125@laplace.tn.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <p04330101b6e17b674086@[165.227.138.65]>

At 4:36 PM -0500 3/23/01, Tom Loredo wrote:
>Hi folks-
>
>Larry, where were you a week ago when I was trying to sort all
>of this out?  8-)
>
>My impression was that the newest version of Mac Gnuplot (3.7) was
>produced by different folks from the earlier version that the Python
>interface was built for.  That older version had the GPSE creator code
>for the Gnuplot application, and it also required you to have the Alpha
>editor (which it used as its console).  The newer, cleaner, and
>apparently more stable 3.7 version is stand-alone, and has a different
>creator code: {GP}.  Because of this, I just presumed (perhaps
>incorrectly) that I'd better not rely on the Mac code in Gnuplot.py
>having the right Apple events to match with the new build.  So I
>rebuilt the entire suite following Jack's instructions that come with
>MacPython (I'm new to OSA, so I was surprised I got any of it to
>work!).  A bit of hacking was required (in particular, somehow no
>"Quit" event was defined by following the instructions---any idea
>what's up with this?), but it seems to work.  I can post the suite on a
>web site if there's interest.  I just can't make any promises that I
>did it right!
>
>BTW, this was all with MacPython 2.0.  I had no problems installing
>Gnuplot.py with Distutils, though I did have to add a search path to
>MacPython to get the RequiredSuites.  If you have the *old* Mac Gnuplot
>on your hard drive, just running Gnuplot.py out of the box will run it
>fine.  I only had to do what I described above so that I could use the
>newer build.
>
>-Tom Loredo
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig

Tom,

You might want to wait before posting anything. Everything seemed to 
be working just fine on my G4 at work.  However, I'm telecommuting 
today and I can't seem to get Gnuplot.py working on my iMac with what 
I thought were the proper hacks.  I'll have to wait till Monday to 
see how everything is actually configured for the working version.

Larry


From owen@astro.washington.edu  Fri Mar 23 22:50:25 2001
From: owen@astro.washington.edu (Russell E Owen)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:50:25 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] gnuplot again -- it works, but some questions
Message-ID: <p05100807b6e178c89671@[128.95.99.44]>

Larry Meyn's helpful postings on installing gnuplot inspired me to 
get it and try to install it under Mac Python 2.0. It works! However, 
I had to do things a bit differently and it left me a bit puzzled 
about how things work.

I obtained Mac gnuplot 3.7.1b and gnuplot.py 1.5 and modified 
gp_mac.py approximately as per Larry's instructions, with changes as 
noted below.

My copy of gp_mac.py tried to import Required_Suite, which failed 
because it's not in the default search path. (Required_Suite is in 
package StdSuites, which *is* in the search path). The changes I made 
to gp_mac.py were as follows:

import StdSuites.Required_Suite	# originally: import Required_Suite
...
class _GNUPLOT(aetools.TalkTo,
	StdSuites.Required_Suite.Required_Suite_Events,	# originally: 
Required_Suite
...
but I feel I am surely missing something obvious, since Larry didn't 
have to do this. I doubt it's a difference between Mac Python 2.1 and 
2.0 since they seem to have the same directory structure. Am I 
missing some obvious trick?


Also, I wonder if there's any consensus as to the best way to handle 
the fact that Required_Suite exists in two locations and the copy in 
StdSuites is clearly broken (missing most of its code). I tried 
moving the "good" file into StdSuites, but that failed, apparently 
because the "good" Required_Suite.py defines class Required_Suite, 
whereas the bad Required_Suite.py defines class Required_Suite_Events.

I ended up copying the code that defined class Required_Suite from 
the good Required_Suite.py into the bad one, but making it define 
class Required_Suite_Events in the bad file. This is approximately 
what Larry suggested.


Curiosity aside, it's working and I'm thrilled.

Thanks, Larry!

-- Russell


From jack@oratrix.nl  Fri Mar 23 23:52:55 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 00:52:55 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] AppleScript (was: Gnuplot)
Message-ID: <20010323235301.1D0CBEA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Since 2.0 the MacPython OSA architecture has changed. And while I did
put in the documentation for the new architecture (in
:Mac:Demo:applescript.html) I guess I didn't put enough emphasis on
the fact that things have changed (I've now added a note to that
file).

In short: it used to be so that each suite had its own module, and the 
standard suites plus the ones I needed all lived together in
lib-scripting. This had a serious problem, namely that programs that
overrode (overrided?) standard suites, something OSA explicitly
allows, had a [problem with two modules with the same name: e standard 
suite module and their own overridden version of it.

The new architecture uses a package per application, and the
pseudo-application StdSuites to contain Apple's own stuff. Now the
problem goes away, because application FooBar overriding
Standard_suite has its own Standard_Suite submodule, which can still
include StdSuites.StandardSuite. The new packages are in
lib-scriptpackages. The class for the events, the big one, has also
gotten _Events appended to their name.

lib-scriptpackages is in sys.path by default, lib-scripting isn't and
is really only provided for backward compatibility.

gensuitemodule knows about all the new stuff, so you as a Python
programmer really neednt' do anything but run gensuitemodule on the
application you want to script, and out comes a package that should
contain all the submodules you need, presuming the application authors 
got their AEUT resources correct.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Fri Mar 23 23:57:31 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 00:57:31 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] gnuplot again -- it works, but some questions
In-Reply-To: Message by Russell E Owen <owen@astro.washington.edu> ,
 Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:50:25 -0800 , <p05100807b6e178c89671@[128.95.99.44]>
Message-ID: <20010323235736.5AB0FEA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Russell E Owen <owen@astro.washington.edu> said:
> Larry Meyn's helpful postings on installing gnuplot inspired me to 
> get it and try to install it under Mac Python 2.0. It works! However, 
> I had to do things a bit differently and it left me a bit puzzled 
> about how things work.
> 
> I obtained Mac gnuplot 3.7.1b and gnuplot.py 1.5 and modified 
> gp_mac.py approximately as per Larry's instructions, with changes as 
> noted below.
> [..]

Okay, if so many people (everyone?) has trouble with OSA I guess that
my documentation simply isn't good enough. The idea is that everything 
is realy so super-simple: run gensuitemodule and be done. But:
apparently I don't get this message across. Can someone have a look at 
the documentation and rewrite it or modify it to be more
understandable, please???

Or, alternatively, tell me where the model is wrong...
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From loredo@astrosun.tn.cornell.edu  Sat Mar 24 00:25:11 2001
From: loredo@astrosun.tn.cornell.edu (Tom Loredo)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:25:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: AppleScrip (was: Gnuplot)
Message-ID: <200103240025.TAA20385@laplace.tn.cornell.edu>

Jack-

In the process of making a new "suite" for Gnuplot 3.7, it was
clear to me that things had changed from the version used for
Gnuplot.py.  Yes, you could have stated it directly, but it
was pretty obvious (a *package* was produced and not a module!).

As I mentioned in my previous post, I think part of the
confusion/difficulty here is that there appear to be 2 different
ports of Gnuplot to the Mac.  Gnuplot.py was built for the
older one (the one that required Alpha as its console).  If
you have both the new one and the old one on your hard drive,
running Gnuplot.py out of the box will bring up the old one
(and Alpha).

The one thing I stumbled over building the suite, as I noted, was that
I wasn't simply "done" when it was built.  Gnuplot.py would not work
because there was no support for the "Quit" event.  I just copied some
stuff from the original scripting stuff (for the old Gnuplot) and got
it to work.  I'm not at my Mac at the moment so I don't recall exactly
what I did, but I think I had to explicitly use the RequiredSuite
module (or something similar) from the library, not the one copied into
the Gnuplot suite package I created.  So I wonder if there's a bug in
this respect, or if whatever the underlying issue is could be cleared
up in the docs.

-Tom Loredo


From fgranger@altern.org  Sat Mar 24 13:35:18 2001
From: fgranger@altern.org (Francois Granger)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 14:35:18 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Buttons in W
In-Reply-To: <f05001901b6e14775866e@[131.216.77.14]>
References: <v04210100b6e12c43b13f@[213.228.24.89]>
 <f05001901b6e14775866e@[131.216.77.14]>
Message-ID: <v04210101b6e251feb44b@[213.228.31.219]>

At 11:22 -0800 23/03/01, in message Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Buttons in W, 
Corran Webster wrote:
>At 5:44 PM +0100 23/3/01, François Granger wrote:
>>This is my first attempt at using the W module.
>
>If you haven't already discovered it, you may find my tutorial on W useful:
>
>http://www.nevada.edu/~cwebster/Python/WWidgets/index.html

I read it a lot and carefully before asking ;-)

>You then need to use a lambda

I was shy of using lambda. I never used them before, and was not sure 
I fully understood them. Now it is ok.

>As written, the above code allows two humans to play, but doesn't 
>determine a winner.

I already have this part done elsewere. I'll fully implement it.


Thanks a lot for your help.

-- 
"Faites des phrases courtes. Un sujet, un verbe, un complément. Quand 
vous voudrez ajouter un adjectif, vous viendrez me voir." - Georges 
Clemenceau, 1841-1929, médecin et homme politique français. Consignes 
aux journalistes de "L'Aurore". d'après 
<http://www.sit.ulaval.ca/pagespersonnelles/phf/pensee.html> 


From fgranger@altern.org  Sat Mar 24 14:31:31 2001
From: fgranger@altern.org (Francois Granger)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 15:31:31 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Learning W (Thanks)
Message-ID: <v04210102b6e25fafebba@[213.228.31.219]>

Thanks to Just and Corran to help me in learning W. This is part of a 
more ambitous project. But for now, i did an implementation of the 
game TicTacToe. Here it is. Feel free to comment.


# python
"""
A rather simple implementation of TicTacToe to learn how to use of 
the PythonMac W module.

With help from Just Van Rossum and Corran Webster.
See the tutorial on W at
http://www.nevada.edu/~cwebster/Python/WWidgets/index.html
"""
import W

def bpStart():
	"""
	Initialize game
	"""
	global token
	token =''
	print "Hello World!"
	w.bStart.enable(0)
	w.display.set('')
	for i in range(3):
		for j in range(3):
			w[i,j].settitle(token)
			w[i,j].enable(1)
	token = 'O'

def bpCase(i,j):
	"""
	handle the click on one button
	"""
	global token
	#print i,j
	w[i,j].settitle(token)  # show either "X" or "O"
	w[i,j].enable(0)		# make the button unclickable 
from now on
	# Change token for next player
	if token == "X":
		token = "O"
	else:
		token = "X"
	# some code to determine if we have a winner - calling out to a
	# function which checks for wins or draws.
	r = won()
	if r == 'tie':
		#print 'Tie'
		w.display.set(r)
		w.bStart.enable(1)
	elif r:
		print r, 'win'
		w.display.set(r + ' win')
		w.bStart.enable(1)
		for i in range(3):
			for j in range(3):
				w[i,j].enable(0)
	else:
		pass

w = W.Window((200, 200), "TicTacToe", minsize = (100, 100))
w.display = W.EditText((150,60,50,22), "", 
fontsettings=("geneva",0,12,(0,0,0)))
w.bStart = W.Button((150,20,50,25), "New game", bpStart)

stepb = 16
for i in range(3):
	for j in range(3):
		w[i,j] = W.Button((20 + i * stepb,20 + j * stepb,stepb,stepb),
			'', lambda i = i, j = j : bpCase(i, j))
token = 'O'
w.bStart.enable(0)
w.open()

def won():
	b = []
	for i in range(3):
		b.append([])
		for j in range(3):
			b[i].append(w[i,j].gettitle())
	win = 0
	for t in ('X', 'O'):
		for i in range(3):
			if b[i][0] == t and b[i][1] == t and b[i][2] == t:
				win = t # won
		for j in range(3):
			if b[0][j] == t and b[1][j] == t and b[2][j] == t:
				win = t # won
		if b[0][0] == t and b[1][1] == t and b[2][2] == t:
			win = t
		if b[0][2] == t and b[1][1] == t and b[2][0] == t:
			win = t
	x = 0
	for i in range(3):
		for j in range(3):
			if b[i][j]:
				x += 1
	if x == 9 and not win:
		return 'tie'
	return win
-- 
"Faites des phrases courtes. Un sujet, un verbe, un complément. Quand 
vous voudrez ajouter un adjectif, vous viendrez me voir." - Georges 
Clemenceau, 1841-1929, médecin et homme politique français. Consignes 
aux journalistes de "L'Aurore". d'après 
<http://www.sit.ulaval.ca/pagespersonnelles/phf/pensee.html> 


From lmeyn@mail.arc.nasa.gov  Sat Mar 24 17:07:56 2001
From: lmeyn@mail.arc.nasa.gov (Larry Meyn)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 09:07:56 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Gnuplot Installation
Message-ID: <p04330100b6e1fc235aec@[165.227.138.65]>

Hi All,

Thanks for all the feedback on this topic.  I took Jack's advice and 
ran gensuitemodule.  This avoids having to tamper with any of the 
Python distribution files like Required_Suite.  The gensuitemodule 
produces a gnuplot_Suites package to replace the gnuplot_Suites.py 
file.  The only change that seemed to be needed to the generated 
files in this package was to change the name of a method in 
gnuplot_Suite.py from exec to gnuexec.  Several changes needed to be 
made to gp_mac.py, but no other files seem to need modification. For 
those interested I've posted a copy of the module at the URL shown 
below. Just drop it into the Lib:site-packages folder. I don't know 
how the distutils package works, so running setup.py won't copy 
everything to the right place.  There are a few gnuplot errors 
generated when running test.py, so this is just an interim solution.

Larry

http://homepage.mac.com/lmeyn/.cv/lmeyn/Public/Gnuplot.sea-binhex.hqx


From fgranger@altern.org  Sat Mar 24 17:33:37 2001
From: fgranger@altern.org (Francois Granger)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 18:33:37 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Issue with W
Message-ID: <v04210104b6e289a0c65c@[213.228.31.219]>

I am now trying to build an applet of my TicTacToe game.

I discovered that W in not in the normal path list. So, at the 
biggining of my script i added the following code:

import sys
sys.path.append(sys.prefix + 'Mac:Tools:IDE')
import W

When I try to run this with PythonInterpreter 2.0 (final) I get the 
following...


Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "HD:Dev:scripts:tictactoe.py", line 11, in ?
     import W
   File "HD:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:W.py", line 5, in ?
     from Wbase import *
   File "HD:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:Wbase.py", line 702, in ?
     _cursors = {
Mac OS Error: (-192, 'Resource not found')

I opened the script and it read:

_cursors = {	# <- this is line 702
	"watch"	: Qd.GetCursor(QuickDraw.watchCursor).data,
	"arrow"	: Qd.qd.arrow,
	"iBeam"	: Qd.GetCursor(QuickDraw.iBeamCursor).data,
	"cross"	: Qd.GetCursor(QuickDraw.crossCursor).data,
	"plus"		: Qd.GetCursor(QuickDraw.plusCursor).data,
	"hand"	: Qd.GetCursor(468).data,
	"fist"		: Qd.GetCursor(469).data,
	"hmover"	: Qd.GetCursor(470).data,
	"vmover"	: Qd.GetCursor(471).data,
	"zoomin"	: Qd.GetCursor(472).data,
	"zoomout"	: Qd.GetCursor(473).data,
	"zoom"	: Qd.GetCursor(474).data,
}

I was about to hack it, but before doing anything wrong I prefer to 
ask for help...
-- 
"Faites des phrases courtes. Un sujet, un verbe, un complément. Quand 
vous voudrez ajouter un adjectif, vous viendrez me voir." - Georges 
Clemenceau, 1841-1929, médecin et homme politique français. Consignes 
aux journalistes de "L'Aurore". d'après 
<http://www.sit.ulaval.ca/pagespersonnelles/phf/pensee.html> 


From just@letterror.com  Sat Mar 24 21:48:03 2001
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 22:48:03 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Issue with W
In-Reply-To: <v04210104b6e289a0c65c@[213.228.31.219]>
References: <v04210104b6e289a0c65c@[213.228.31.219]>
Message-ID: <200103242148.WAA18606@webmail1.xs4all.nl>

Quoting Francois Granger <fgranger@altern.org>:

> When I try to run this with PythonInterpreter 2.0 (final) I get the 
> following...
> 
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "HD:Dev:scripts:tictactoe.py", line 11, in ?
>      import W
>    File "HD:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:W.py", line 5, in ?
>      from Wbase import *
>    File "HD:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:Wbase.py", line 702, in ?
>      _cursors = {
> Mac OS Error: (-192, 'Resource not found')

You either need to open Widgets.rsrc, or (easier) copy it's content to your own 
res file. (In case you wonder how to include a res file in an applet: create a 
res file in the same folder as your main program, and call it the same, except 
ending in .rsrc instead of .py. BuildApplet will then copy the resources from 
that file to the applet.)

Just


From jbmoody@oakland.edu  Sat Mar 24 22:08:10 2001
From: jbmoody@oakland.edu (Jon Moody)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 17:08:10 -0500
Subject: [jbmoody@oakland.edu: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Gnuplot Installation]
Message-ID: <20010324170810.D7326@oakland.edu>

On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 09:07:56AM -0800, Larry Meyn wrote:
> Thanks for all the feedback on this topic.  I took Jack's advice and 
> ran gensuitemodule.  This avoids having to tamper with any of the 
> Python distribution files like Required_Suite.  The gensuitemodule 
> produces a gnuplot_Suites package to replace the gnuplot_Suites.py 
> file.  The only change that seemed to be needed to the generated 
> files in this package was to change the name of a method in 
> gnuplot_Suite.py from exec to gnuexec.  Several changes needed to be 
> made to gp_mac.py, but no other files seem to need modification. For 
> those interested I've posted a copy of the module at the URL shown 
> below. Just drop it into the Lib:site-packages folder. I don't know 
> how the distutils package works, so running setup.py won't copy 
> everything to the right place.  There are a few gnuplot errors 
> generated when running test.py, so this is just an interim solution.
> 

Actually it's much simpler than this.  In the original gp_mac.py that
comes with Gnuplot.py, just make the two changes already mentioned:

in class GnuplotOpts:
default_term = 'pict'

in class _GNUPLOT:
aetools.TalkTo.__init__(self, "{GP}", start=1)

------------------------------------------------
plus, comment as follows starting around line 59:
------------------------------------------------

import gnuplot_Suites
# import Required_Suite
import aetools

class _GNUPLOT(aetools.TalkTo,
	       #Required_Suite.Required_Suite,
	       gnuplot_Suites.gnuplot_Suite,
	       #gnuplot_Suites.odds_and_ends,
	       #gnuplot_Suites.Standard_Suite,
	       #gnuplot_Suites.Miscellaneous_Events
	       ):

With these changes, Gnuplot.py's test.py module runs without error
using the new gnuplot-3.7.1a.  This works because Gnuplot.py only uses
_one_ AppleEvent call, 'exec' which is renamed to 'gnuexec' since
'exec' is a python reserverd word (there's also a 'flush' method used
but it's not an AE event, it's just a dummy).  The 'exec' AppleEvent
is defined for both the old mac-gnuplot and the new gnuplot-3.7.1a.

What's really interesting about the new gnuplot-3.7.1a on the mac,
aside from the fabulous mac-specific terminals 'pict' and 'moov', is
that there's now a 'print' AppleEvent;  it should now be possible to
support Gnuplot.py's 'hardcopy' method.  

Also, there's a few other new AppleEvents supported ('data size',
'make', 'revert', 'open') as well as a 'document' class.  I think it
should be possible to also support Gnuplot.py's 'inline' method.  Has
anyone tried this yet?

--
Jon



	       

----- End forwarded message -----


From jbmoody@oakland.edu  Sat Mar 24 22:08:39 2001
From: jbmoody@oakland.edu (Jon Moody)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 17:08:39 -0500
Subject: [jbmoody@oakland.edu: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Gnuplot Installation]
Message-ID: <20010324170838.E7326@oakland.edu>

On Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 04:36:44PM -0500, Tom Loredo wrote:
> Because of this, I just presumed (perhaps incorrectly) that I'd
> better not rely on the Mac code in Gnuplot.py having the right Apple
> events to match with the new build.

You're right; some of the AEs in the new gnuplot-3.7.1a are the same,
some are different.

> So I rebuilt the entire suite following Jack's instructions that
> come with MacPython (I'm new to OSA, so I was surprised I got any of
> it to work!).  A bit of hacking was required (in particular, somehow
> no "Quit" event was defined by following the instructions---any idea
> what's up with this?), but it seems to work.

There's an easy way to check what AEs are defined for a given
OSA-aware program.  There's a mac program called 'Script Editor'
(usually in a folder called 'Apple Extras:Apple Script') that has a
file dialog 'File -> Open Dictionary'.  If you use that to open the
OSA-aware program, it lists all the Suites and AEs the program
supports.

--
Jon


----- End forwarded message -----


From basicprinting@earthlink.net  Tue Mar 27 02:48:59 2001
From: basicprinting@earthlink.net (Leisa Bilyeu)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 21:48:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Exiting/Quitting an applet
Message-ID: <388003901.985661340137.JavaMail.root@web421-wrb>

What am I doing wrong with macPython2.0?

I type the following into the IDE and save as an Applet.



"""Exiting/Quitting an applet
	an example of how NOT to do it.
"""
import sys
import os



def main():
	forkIt = ""
	quitter = "quit"
	
	if forkIt != "do it":
		sys.exit
		print "why does this line print?"

	if quitter == "quit":
		quit
		print "why do either of these lines print?"
	

if __name__=='__main__':
	main()
	
print
print
print " This line should not print either."
print " Don't forget to quit this window.................."

 



From jack@oratrix.nl  Tue Mar 27 10:26:28 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 12:26:28 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Exiting/Quitting an applet
In-Reply-To: Message by Leisa Bilyeu <basicprinting@earthlink.net> ,
 Mon, 26 Mar 2001 21:48:59 -0500 (EST) , <388003901.985661340137.JavaMail.root@web421-wrb>
Message-ID: <20010327102629.6A85436B2C0@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> What am I doing wrong with macPython2.0?
[...]
> 	if forkIt != "do it":
> 		sys.exit
> 		print "why does this line print?"

sys.exit is a function, so you should call it:
		sys.exit()
what you do here is simply obtaining the value (and then immedeately 
discarding it again). In Python you always specify the parentheses when you 
call a function.

I think the Python tutorial (on www.python.org) should handle things like this.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From jack@oratrix.nl  Tue Mar 27 21:42:08 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:42:08 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1b2 available
Message-ID: <20010327214214.C3AA1EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Folks,
a 2.1b2 installer is available via
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython.html . It has all problems fixed (or 
mentioned in the release notes:-) that were discussed here over the
last week.

I'll advertise it more widely tomorrow, so please let me know quickly
about problems.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | ++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/ ++++


From tom@othermedia.com  Tue Mar 27 22:07:36 2001
From: tom@othermedia.com (tom smith)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:07:36 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1b2 available
In-Reply-To: <20010327214214.C3AA1EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <B6E6CDB7.12C5%tom@othermedia.com>

on 3/27/01 10:42 PM, Jack Jansen at jack@oratrix.nl wrote:

> Folks,
> a 2.1b2 installer is available via
> http://www.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython.html . It has all problems fixed (or
> mentioned in the release notes:-) that were discussed here over the
> last week.
> 
> I'll advertise it more widely tomorrow, so please let me know quickly
> about problems.

I just installed OSX, the python. The Configure Applet that gets fired off
during the install unexpectedly quit.

I ran the ConfigurePythonCarbon tool. Everything seemed to go OK..the IDE
seems to work fine...

Well done jack!

tom



From basicprinting@earthlink.net  Wed Mar 28 01:15:24 2001
From: basicprinting@earthlink.net (Leisa Bilyeu)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 20:15:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Exiting/Quitting an applet
Message-ID: <389775771.985742124178.JavaMail.root@web625-wrb.mail.com>

>> What am I doing wrong ...

>sys.exit is a function, so you should call it:
>		sys.exit()


But, but, ...
I was prepared, and had researched the mail archives; 
and was all ready to learn the intricasies of sys.exit(ing) the Mac IDE vs. the interpreter.

What a letdown to find out it's a forgotten syntax error;
and in the background Homer Simpson yells, "Doh!"


Jack,
I have to praise you for your always considerate and thoughtful replies to really stupid questions. 
Kudos due you for answers that are even more useful to those reading back through the archives.
Many thanks to all the regular contributors who make Pythonmac-SIG simultaneously useful to all levels of experience.
Basic Printing
941-541-0777 ? Fax 941-540-4735
Letterhead, Envelopes, Cards, Flyers, Newsletters & more!
 



From tom@othermedia.com  Wed Mar 28 12:14:33 2001
From: tom@othermedia.com (tom smith)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:14:33 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] python (which is which)
In-Reply-To: <389775771.985742124178.JavaMail.root@web625-wrb.mail.com>
Message-ID: <084662316121c31PCOW034M@blueyonder.co.uk>

forgive the dumb question, but is there a difference between the modules 
in unix python and mac python?

For instance, I think there's a module called dbi which comes with most 
python's but mac python doesn't have it. Certain xml modules seem to lag 
behind too (are there others?)

Will mac python be integrated with unix python?

Am I even right for thinking this is the case?

thanks

tom


From TattooMabonzoK.  Wed Mar 28 12:44:30 2001
From: TattooMabonzoK. (TattooMabonzoK.)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:44:30 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1b2 available
In-Reply-To: <20010327214214.C3AA1EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <1226335423-11245708@microscript.net>

On Tuesday, March 27, 2001, at 11:42 PM, Jack Jansen wrote:

> Folks,
> a 2.1b2 installer is available via
> http://www.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython.html . It has all problems fixed (or
> mentioned in the release notes:-) that were discussed here over the
> last week.
>
> I'll advertise it more widely tomorrow, so please let me know quickly
> about problems.

This is on Mac OX 10.0 (build 4k78)

As with B1:
	- At the end of the installation I still get the dialog re: Finder 
activity
	- At the end of the installation I get a "The application 
ConfigurePythonCarbon has unexpectedly quit." dialog

Launching ConfigurePythonCarbon manually:
	- correctly detects that there's an old-no-longer-correct prefs file 
and offers 3 options (no too clear hear what's the behavior: I assume if I 
click continue, the old prefs file won't be deleted right? I chose the 
default option (remove and quit)
	- I get the "Python on non-boot partition..." dialog. Since a on Mac 
OS X and Python is @ /Users/Shared/Hacking/ there are no Extensions folder 
anyway. Either the message is inaccurate or there's no such a need 
(copying PythonCore to the Extentions folder). Anyway I chose 'Copy' and 
the same dialog poped up once again. I chose 'Copy' once more and it then 
proceeded in building all applets.
	
Now python seems to be working but the UI is still FUBAR and makes 
debugging essentially unpractical with the IDE

Keep on the good work!

= tmk =

> --
> Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
> Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig 
> ++++
> www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | ++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/ ++++
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
>


From fgranger@altern.org  Wed Mar 28 18:35:57 2001
From: fgranger@altern.org (Francois Granger)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 20:35:57 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Nouveau groupe en =?iso-8859-1?Q?fran=E7ais?=
Message-ID: <v04210109b6e7dd7837ca@[213.228.11.103]>

Sorry for this french message. Translation follow.

Il est encore temps de voter pour la création d'un NG en français sur 
Python. Allez dans 'fr.usenet.forums.annonces' et cherchez le message 
'[AAV 3] Creation de fr.comp.lang.python (non-modere)'
votez en répondant à ce message.

[en]
It is time for voting to create the french speaking newsgroup 
'fr.comp.lang.python'. Go to 'fr.usenet.forums.annonces' and look for 
the message '[AAV 3] Creation de fr.comp.lang.python (non-modere)'. 
Votes by replying to this message.
-- 
"Faites des phrases courtes. Un sujet, un verbe, un complément. Quand 
vous voudrez ajouter un adjectif, vous viendrez me voir." - Georges 
Clemenceau, 1841-1929, médecin et homme politique français. Consignes 
aux journalistes de "L'Aurore". d'après 
<http://www.sit.ulaval.ca/pagespersonnelles/phf/pensee.html> 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Wed Mar 28 20:28:55 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 22:28:55 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] python (which is which)
In-Reply-To: Message by tom smith <tom@othermedia.com> ,
 Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:14:33 +0100 , <084662316121c31PCOW034M@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20010328202900.482ECEA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, tom smith <tom@othermedia.com> said:
> forgive the dumb question, but is there a difference between the modules 
> in unix python and mac python?

99% of the modules are the same. There are a few unix-specific modules 
(like dbhash) and a few (actually quite a few more) mac-specific
modules (like all the MacOS toolbox stuff). There are of course also
specific-unix-specific modules not included in MacPython (like
linuxaudiodev and such).

> For instance, I think there's a module called dbi which comes with most 
> python's but mac python doesn't have it. Certain xml modules seem to lag 
> behind too (are there others?)

Dbi I have never heard of, what should it do? And the XML stuff should 
be the exact same, otherwise I have messed up somewhere (i.e. let me
know if there are inconsistencies).

> Will mac python be integrated with unix python?

At some point: probably yes. In the next year: probably no.

My current idea (comments please!) is that MacPython and
unix-Python-on-MacOSX-bsd will evolve towards each other. Steve has
started on this by making various of the MacOS toolbox modules
available in unix-Python, and that trend will continue.

For the next half year or year my guess is that pre-OSX machines will
outnumber OSX machines, so a MacPython that uses the CFM runtime model 
serves the largest community. It may be that I drop non-Carbon
MacPython, though, after 2.1. If I'm not mistaken all PPC machines can 
run MacOS 8.6, and CarbonLib will be available for 8.6, so in half a
years time there may be little justification for the added work of
pre-Carbon support. This is also assuming Tcl/Tk has been ported by
that time (or Tkinter has been replaced by something better:-).

One of the possibilities is that the next distribution (2.2 or 2.1.X)
has a choice of installing for CFM/Carbon or MachO/BSD, but there are
a number of issues that need to be resolved first. One is the pathname 
problem: would replacing mac:style:pathnames with
/unix/style/pathnames break many things or can we work around this?
Another is the \r versus \n line-ending problem and related issues
like .pyc file compatibility.

All of this is still half-baked, so comments are welcome. Also: if you 
have ideas about which OSX/Carbon functionality you'd like to see
supported sooner rather than later I'd like to hear it. Not that I
promise anything (the stuff I need is going to be implemented first),
and not that you won't have to help (with OSX shipping with the
developer stuff you're last excuse is gone) but it would be nice to
know.

Personally I'd like to see FSRef support done soon, then probably the
Carbon Event manager, the Data Browser, the Help Manager, parts of
CoreFoundation (which parts?), ....
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Wed Mar 28 21:09:21 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:09:21 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1b2 available
In-Reply-To: Message by "Tattoo Mabonzo K." <tmk@easynet.be> ,
 Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:44:30 +0200 , <1226335423-11245708@microscript.net>
Message-ID: <20010328210926.44DA7EA11F@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, "Tattoo Mabonzo K." <tmk@easynet.be> said:
> This is on Mac OX 10.0 (build 4k78)
> 
> As with B1:
> 	- At the end of the installation I still get the dialog re: Finder 
> activity

Ah, forgot to take the dialog out. Will do so now.... Done for the
next release.

> 	- At the end of the installation I get a "The application 
> ConfigurePythonCarbon has unexpectedly quit." dialog

I'm aware of this, but I don't know how to fix it, or what causes the
problem. If anyone has some time to put into investigating this:
please do so. The alternative is not to launch ConfigurePythonCarbon
under OSX and put up a dialog in stead, but I'd prefer not to revert
to that.

> Launching ConfigurePythonCarbon manually:
> 	- correctly detects that there's an old-no-longer-correct prefs file 
> and offers 3 options (no too clear hear what's the behavior: I assume if I 
> click continue, the old prefs file won't be deleted right? I chose the 
> default option (remove and quit)

Right. I've been struggling with the wording in this dialog, if anyone 
has a better idea for the sentences and/or the buttons: let's hear it.

> 	- I get the "Python on non-boot partition..." dialog. Since a on Mac 
> OS X and Python is @ /Users/Shared/Hacking/ there are no Extensions folder 
> anyway. Either the message is inaccurate or there's no such a need 
> (copying PythonCore to the Extentions folder). Anyway I chose 'Copy' and 
> the same dialog poped up once again. I chose 'Copy' once more and it then 
> proceeded in building all applets.

I'm unsure about this one. It may be okay to always alias on OSX, but
I could also imagine that aliases won't work if you're running off a
UFS partition. Maybe I should always copy?

Comments, please!

> Now python seems to be working but the UI is still FUBAR and makes 
> debugging essentially unpractical with the IDE

I haven't noticed this. The IDE UI is pretty abysmal under OSX, with
the black borders and hardly any of the button labels fitting (does
anyone feel like fixing this?). But I wasn't aware of any
functional problems, why is debugging essentially unpractical?
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From malte.forkel@berlin.de  Thu Mar 29 06:59:55 2001
From: malte.forkel@berlin.de (Malte Forkel)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 08:59:55 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python 2.0 vs. Mac 68k
Message-ID: <000001c0b81e$fedd0080$ae4515d5@harvey>

Hi,

I'm looking for Python 2.0 for a 68k Mac. Has anyone build such a beast?
Please cc: to me directly, I'm not on the mailing list.

Thanks, Malte

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Malte Forkel                                            Tel +49 30 21018926
Kurfuerstenstrasse 127                                   Fax +49 30 21018927
10785 Berlin
Germany                                        mailto:malte.forkel@berlin.de



From richard@blumberg.org  Thu Mar 29 13:43:45 2001
From: richard@blumberg.org (Richard Blumberg)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 08:43:45 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PythonMac vs Python Unix for Mac OSX cgi
Message-ID: <a05100901b6e8eb06095c@[10.227.25.114]>

-- 
I just installed OS X, and I was wondering if anyone has had 
experience compiling Python 2.1 (not PythonMac) under BSD Unix on an 
X system.

Since Apple is using Apache for personal web sharing on X, it strikes 
me that I could test the Python CGI scripts on my X system - 
something I couldn't do without some contortions under system 9, 
using PythonMac. My hosting service (Pair Networks - I recommend 
them) has Python 2 installed on their FreeBSD servers.

I could just go ahead and try, and I will; but if I can get some 
advice and guidance from someone who's been there, it's likely to be 
a more successful trial and a quicker road to success.

Thanks.

Richard



From golinvaux@benjamin.net  Thu Mar 29 15:35:33 2001
From: golinvaux@benjamin.net (Benjamin Golinvaux)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 17:35:33 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PythonMac vs Python Unix for Mac OSX cgi
In-Reply-To: <a05100901b6e8eb06095c@[10.227.25.114]>
Message-ID: <E14ieSA-0002oq-00@bigglesworth.mail.be.easynet.net>

The recipe to succesfully build Python 2.0 on OSX is at :

www.zope.org/Members/jshell/ZopeOnOSX

The modifications are needed mostly because of the case-unsensitive
aspect of HFS+ (how about UFS ???)

It worked fine for me using the standard source tree

It seems support for OSX is still better in 2.1b...

Hope this helps.

BTW, I also succeded installing SWIG on MacOSX by modifying the
SWIG folder to _SWIG and patching the various makefiles accordingly...

Benjamin Golinvaux
Arboretum Systems, Inc.
www.arboretum.com

On Thursday, March 29, 2001, at 03:43 PM, Richard Blumberg wrote:

>
> -- I just installed OS X, and I was wondering if anyone has had 
> experience compiling Python 2.1 (not PythonMac) under BSD Unix on an X 
> system.
>
> Since Apple is using Apache for personal web sharing on X, it strikes 
> me that I could test the Python CGI scripts on my X system - something 
> I couldn't do without some contortions under system 9, using PythonMac. 
> My hosting service (Pair Networks - I recommend them) has Python 2 
> installed on their FreeBSD servers.
>
> I could just go ahead and try, and I will; but if I can get some advice 
> and guidance from someone who's been there, it's likely to be a more 
> successful trial and a quicker road to success.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Richard
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
>


From golinvaux@benjamin.net  Thu Mar 29 15:37:47 2001
From: golinvaux@benjamin.net (Benjamin Golinvaux)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 17:37:47 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] dynamic libs on OSX
Message-ID: <E14ieUK-0002rH-00@bigglesworth.mail.be.easynet.net>

Dear list members,

Does anyone know if it is possible to build dynamic libraries suitable
for use with UNIX Python (NOT Carbon or classic PythonMac) with
Project Builder ?

I always keep getting errors about common symbols not supported and
a pair of missing symbols

Thanks for some help

Benjamin Golinvaux
Arboretum Systems, Inc.
www.arboretum.com



From sdm7g@Virginia.EDU  Thu Mar 29 16:53:37 2001
From: sdm7g@Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:53:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PythonMac vs Python Unix for Mac OSX cgi
In-Reply-To: <a05100901b6e8eb06095c@[10.227.25.114]>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0103291140380.234-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Richard Blumberg wrote:

> I just installed OS X, and I was wondering if anyone has had 
> experience compiling Python 2.1 (not PythonMac) under BSD Unix on an 
> X system.

2.1 beta builds "right out of the box" on OSX --
 you need to ./configure --with-dyld , and if you're building
 on a HFS+ filesystem (which is the default), you also need to 
 add --with-suffix=.x , so there's not a conflict between the Python
 directory and the python executable. You should rename or make a 
 symbolic link for 'python' after the install:

./configure --with-dyld --with-suffix=.x
make
sudo make install
sudo ln /usr/local/bin/python.x /usr/local/bin/python
# or 'mv /usr/local/bin/python.x /usr/local/bin/python' 
limit stack 4096  # so you don't get a stack overflow on the re test.
make test 


BTW: re: the original question about MacPython vs (unix) Python on OSX:
This is the prefect example of when you would want to use unix Python 
instead of MacPython -- CGI with Apache or with Zope, or for batch
unix programs or anywhere you need to interface with the standard unix
tools. Carbon and Cocoa modules aren't 100% working on the unix port
yet, so I you want to do GUI programming, you're better off with the
Carbon port of MacPython. If you want to interface with AppleScript,
use Carbon MacPython. 

-- Steve Majewski




From jacobkm@cats.ucsc.edu  Thu Mar 29 17:13:20 2001
From: jacobkm@cats.ucsc.edu (Jacob Kaplan-Moss)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 09:13:20 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PythonMac vs Python Unix for Mac OSX cgi
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0103291140380.234-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
References: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0103291140380.234-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <p05001902b6e91d354d59@[169.233.36.110]>

>BTW: re: the original question about MacPython vs (unix) Python on OSX:
>This is the prefect example of when you would want to use unix Python
>instead of MacPython -- CGI with Apache or with Zope, or for batch
>unix programs or anywhere you need to interface with the standard unix
>tools. Carbon and Cocoa modules aren't 100% working on the unix port
>yet, so I you want to do GUI programming, you're better off with the
>Carbon port of MacPython. If you want to interface with AppleScript,
>use Carbon MacPython.

Does anyone have them both running together?

I'm getting my copy of OS X today, and one of the first things I want 
to do is install Python.  I'd love to install both UNIX Python and 
MacPython; are there any conflicts I should be aware of?

Someone should really sit down and write a Python on Mac OS X FAQ... 
maybe once I actually get both installed I'll give it a shot.

Jacob


From sdm7g@Virginia.EDU  Thu Mar 29 17:39:22 2001
From: sdm7g@Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 12:39:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PythonMac vs Python Unix for Mac OSX cgi
In-Reply-To: <p05001902b6e91d354d59@[169.233.36.110]>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0103291219490.234-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Jacob Kaplan-Moss wrote:

> Does anyone have them both running together?

Yes. (But not a lot of testing on either one.)

> I'm getting my copy of OS X today, and one of the first things I want 
> to do is install Python.  I'd love to install both UNIX Python and 
> MacPython; are there any conflicts I should be aware of?

I haven't seen any and I can't think of any likely ones. 
Right now they are rather disjoint:

MacPython files understand mac file types and if you double click on
a Python created file, it will be opened by MacPython. The file needs
to have Mac line-endings. 

Unix Python runs from the command line, wants unix line-endings and 
doesn't know anything about file-types or creators ( and won't respond
to AppleEvents to Open a file from the desktop. 

They are sort of operating in two different domains. 

> Someone should really sit down and write a Python on Mac OS X FAQ... 
> maybe once I actually get both installed I'll give it a shot.

I'm working on a comparison of using Cocoa from (unix) Python + PyObjC
vs. Cocoa from Jython (going thru a Python<->Java and a Java<->ObjC
bridge.) 

Let me know if you're interested in working on or testing either
PyObjC or Carbonmodule from the unix version -- they are both 
a bit buggy and incomplete.  


-- Steve Majewski




From ntiffin@earthlink.net  Thu Mar 29 17:40:30 2001
From: ntiffin@earthlink.net (Neil Tiffin)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:40:30 -0600
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PythonMac vs Python Unix for Mac OSX cgi
In-Reply-To: <p05001902b6e91d354d59@[169.233.36.110]>
References: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0103291140380.234-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
 <p05001902b6e91d354d59@[169.233.36.110]>
Message-ID: <p04330100b6e923aee8c8@[63.36.72.102]>

I am also interested in running both on OS X as I have a need to do 
GNU stuff with wxPython.  So Please post the results after you have 
tried it.

Thanks

Neil


At 9:13 AM -0800 3/29/01, Jacob Kaplan-Moss wrote:
>Does anyone have them both running together?
>
>I'm getting my copy of OS X today, and one of the first things I 
>want to do is install Python.  I'd love to install both UNIX Python 
>and MacPython; are there any conflicts I should be aware of?
>
>Someone should really sit down and write a Python on Mac OS X FAQ... 
>maybe once I actually get both installed I'll give it a shot.
>
>Jacob


From johannh@uclink.berkeley.edu  Thu Mar 29 18:06:45 2001
From: johannh@uclink.berkeley.edu (Johann Hibschman)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:06:45 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PythonMac vs Python Unix for Mac OSX cgi
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0103291219490.234-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <200103291809.f2TI92l12482@uclink4.berkeley.edu>

On Thursday, March 29, 2001, at 08:53 AM, Steven D. Majewski wrote:

 > If you want to interface with AppleScript,
 > use Carbon MacPython.

I just thought I'd share an awful trick that I discovered yesterday.
I'm more used to unix python, so I'm using that, but you can get
unix python to call applescript by writing the script to a text
file, then calling /usr/bin/osascript on that file via os.system.

This is ugly and slow, but it at least connects the two.  The text
file does have to have Mac line endings, and osascript has to be
called with its full path, but it works.

You all probably already know this, but I'm still pleased with
myself.

Cheers,

--Johann


From dmccarthy@ou.edu  Thu Mar 29 18:24:16 2001
From: dmccarthy@ou.edu (David McCarthy)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 12:24:16 -0600
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python 2.1b2-specific problem with dialogs
Message-ID: <3AC37DB5.CB973BD3@ou.edu>

I have a program that consists of a nonmodal dialog box
and a scrolling window.   The dialog is drawn from DLOG
and DITL resources.  The program works under Python 2.0
but when I run it with Python 2.1b1 or 2.1b2 in the
Classic mode a blank dialog window is drawn with none
of the items from the DITL resource.  The scrolled
window is fine.  The program dosn't crash in the sense
that I can invoke other blank dialogs and can quit the
program from the File menu with no problems.

I have another program that uses EasyDialogs and I have
no problems running it in Python 2.1bx.

Is there something obvious that I am missing?  I've
tried taking out all of the Appearance- associated
controls from the main dialog but that dosn't make a
difference.

Thanks

Dave McCarthy



From just@letterror.com  Thu Mar 29 19:46:19 2001
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 21:46:19 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PythonMac vs Python Unix for Mac OSX cgi
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0103291219490.234-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
References: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0103291219490.234-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <200103291946.VAA06382@webmail1.xs4all.nl>

Quoting "Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g@Virginia.EDU>:
> Right now they are rather disjoint:
> 
> MacPython files understand mac file types and if you double click on
> a Python created file, it will be opened by MacPython. The file needs
> to have Mac line-endings. 
> 
> Unix Python runs from the command line, wants unix line-endings and 
> doesn't know anything about file-types or creators ( and won't respond
> to AppleEvents to Open a file from the desktop. 
> 
> They are sort of operating in two different domains. 

I think the first thing to do to get the two versions moving towards one another 
is to get rid of the line-ending problem: both versions should at least be 
indifferent about whether Python sources use \n or \r.

Currently Python depends on line ending translation by the C library: maybe
this should change? I would much prefer the following behavior: returns will be 
replaced by newlines, but newlines stay newlines. Then at least it's possible to 
have the standard library installed only once...

Just


From jack@oratrix.nl  Fri Mar 30 09:17:34 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 11:17:34 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] PythonMac vs Python Unix for Mac OSX cgi
In-Reply-To: Message by Johann Hibschman <johannh@uclink.berkeley.edu> ,
 Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:06:45 -0800 , <200103291809.f2TI92l12482@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <20010330091735.09EFB3D1E55@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> On Thursday, March 29, 2001, at 08:53 AM, Steven D. Majewski wrote:
> 
>  > If you want to interface with AppleScript,
>  > use Carbon MacPython.
> 
> I just thought I'd share an awful trick that I discovered yesterday.
> I'm more used to unix python, so I'm using that, but you can get
> unix python to call applescript by writing the script to a text
> file, then calling /usr/bin/osascript on that file via os.system.

Someone could try porting the "osam" contributed software from MacPython to 
unix-Python. I think all the needed libraries are available, and as this 
module is rather self-contained it should port more-or-less easily.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From jack@oratrix.nl  Fri Mar 30 09:25:18 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 11:25:18 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python 2.1b2-specific problem with dialogs
In-Reply-To: Message by David McCarthy <dmccarthy@ou.edu> ,
 Thu, 29 Mar 2001 12:24:16 -0600 , <3AC37DB5.CB973BD3@ou.edu>
Message-ID: <20010330092519.5F59A3D1E55@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> I have a program that consists of a nonmodal dialog box
> and a scrolling window.   The dialog is drawn from DLOG
> and DITL resources.  The program works under Python 2.0
> but when I run it with Python 2.1b1 or 2.1b2 in the
> Classic mode a blank dialog window is drawn with none
> of the items from the DITL resource.

A couple of things you could check:
- Make sure you're really running classic (printing MacOS.runtimemodel is the 
easiest way to do this, it will return either "ppc" or "carbon"), because 
blank dialogs can happen more easily under Carbon.
- Read the release notes, and make sure you understand the bit about Windows 
and Dialogs being different beasts. This is an API change so it could affect 
your code. I had this happen in FrameWork, where I kept a dictionary of open 
windows and dialogs (and used that dictionary for redraw events and such) and 
that code had to be changed.
- Try isolating the problem, seeing whether it's your DLOG/DITL or your code. 
You should be able to do this by temporarily replacing your DLOG id with one 
of the working ones from EasyDialogs. Your program won't get very far with the 
wrong dialog, but it may at least draw it.

If all else fails you can always post the code and/or resource file here. 
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From Benjamin.Schollnick@usa.xerox.com  Fri Mar 30 12:58:38 2001
From: Benjamin.Schollnick@usa.xerox.com (Schollnick, Benjamin)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 07:58:38 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Any suggestions on this?  (FTP -> Uncompress)
Message-ID: <E2D1934575D1D411973D00508BB02F173020D3@usa0129ms1.ess.mc.xerox.com>

Guys,

	It looks like I'm going to have to tackle a python macintosh
platform
	specific problem.

	I have a small python app that I have running on the PC, and
adapting
	it to macintosh specific code...

	That's basically done.

	It's a app that FTP's to a central server, and downloads
code/software
	updates, and "installs" it onto the client computer.

	Works fine....

	But on the Macintosh, you can't just FTP the application... The FTP
	server (IIS/PC) would strip the resource fork(s), etc.... So I'm
going 
	to have to compress the application(s).....

	Along with that, I need to be able to uncompress the archive,
without
	user intervention.... For example, the *.SEA dialog window asking
where
	to uncompress isn't acceptable.

	Any suggestions on route(s) to take here?  

			- Benjamin


From Benjamin.Schollnick@usa.xerox.com  Fri Mar 30 13:22:48 2001
From: Benjamin.Schollnick@usa.xerox.com (Schollnick, Benjamin)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 08:22:48 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Follow up
Message-ID: <E2D1934575D1D411973D00508BB02F173020D4@usa0129ms1.ess.mc.xerox.com>

I've just been checking the BINHEX module for python, and need
to check something.

I'll be archiving a TREE of directories and files...

Does BinHex support a multiple file archive?

		- Benjamin


From Benjamin.Schollnick@usa.xerox.com  Fri Mar 30 15:14:17 2001
From: Benjamin.Schollnick@usa.xerox.com (Schollnick, Benjamin)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 10:14:17 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Solved?!?!?  Need COPYTREE that can deal w/resource forks, etc... .
Message-ID: <E2D1934575D1D411973D00508BB02F173020D7@usa0129ms1.ess.mc.xerox.com>

Folks,

	I've partially solved my problem...

	Instead now, I'm mounting a remote volume and plan to
	copy the entire required structure over...

	But this requires something similiar to shutil.copytree().

	According to the documentation with v1.52, copytree doesn't
	support the macintosh resource forks, etc.

	Is there something equivalent that will allow me to safely 
	do this?

			- Benjamin

-----Original Message-----
From: Schollnick, Benjamin [mailto:Benjamin.Schollnick@usa.xerox.com]
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 8:23 AM
To: pythonmac-sig@python.org
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Follow up


I've just been checking the BINHEX module for python, and need
to check something.

I'll be archiving a TREE of directories and files...

Does BinHex support a multiple file archive?

		- Benjamin

_______________________________________________
Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig


From brady@mmm.com  Fri Mar 30 17:35:17 2001
From: brady@mmm.com (Dr. Mark Brady)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 09:35:17 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python under OSX
Message-ID: <B6EA03D5.157E%brady@mmm.com>

I haven't tried using Python under OSX yet.  Is Tkinter working there?
As for terminology, is MacPython 2.1 the same as Carbon MacPython?

-Mark 


From Benjamin.Schollnick@usa.xerox.com  Fri Mar 30 16:38:53 2001
From: Benjamin.Schollnick@usa.xerox.com (Schollnick, Benjamin)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 11:38:53 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Sorry...Yet another question...
Message-ID: <E2D1934575D1D411973D00508BB02F173020D9@usa0129ms1.ess.mc.xerox.com>

I'm sorry, I hate to ask this....

But how can I determine the "Computer Name" (i.e. from the FileSharing
Menu)?
I thought about just doing a reverse DNS lookup, but I can't guarantee that
the
machine(s) will be configured with TCPIP....

I've examined alot of the included code, but I'm not familiar with
AppleScript/AppleEvents... So I'm not sure where to go to find this out.

Any Assistance, will be appreciated.

		- Benjamin


From Benjamin.Schollnick@usa.xerox.com  Fri Mar 30 16:57:18 2001
From: Benjamin.Schollnick@usa.xerox.com (Schollnick, Benjamin)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 11:57:18 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Bug Report
Message-ID: <E2D1934575D1D411973D00508BB02F173020DA@usa0129ms1.ess.mc.xerox.com>

I'm not sure who needs to know this....

Module : MoreFindertools
Line 623 has an error.

It's calling "Talker.Send {variables}", which Python is reporting
that there is no variable "Talker".

I just replaced "Talker" with "Finder", per the MountVolume example,
and everything appears to be working AOK.

		- Benjamin


From jack@oratrix.nl  Sat Mar 31 15:13:51 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 17:13:51 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python under OSX
In-Reply-To: Message by "Dr. Mark Brady" <brady@mmm.com> ,
 Fri, 30 Mar 2001 09:35:17 -0800 , <B6EA03D5.157E%brady@mmm.com>
Message-ID: <20010331151356.ABFC1EA11D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, "Dr. Mark Brady" <brady@mmm.com> said:
> I haven't tried using Python under OSX yet.  Is Tkinter working there?
> As for terminology, is MacPython 2.1 the same as Carbon MacPython?

MacPython 2.1 comes in two flavors (in the same installer, and both
can be on your disk at the same time), Carbon and Classic. Carbon runs 
natively on OSX, but does not support Tkinter. You should, howveer, be 
able to run classic on OSX as well, in the os9 box, and it does
support tkinter.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From JWight@bigfoot.com  Sat Mar 31 18:32:12 2001
From: JWight@bigfoot.com (Jonathan Wight)
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 12:32:12 -0600
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python embedded in Cocoa
Message-ID: <B6EB7ECA.18CFB%JWight@bigfoot.com>

This isn't necessarily a Mac Python question but I know there's enough
combined knowledge here to help...

I've created a rather basic Cocoa application (ObjC not Java) that has
Python 2.1b2 (not MacPython) embedded in it. I'm hoping to make a primitive
but useable Python IDE for OSX.

It actually works quite well - the user can edit, open and save .py text
files. When he/she clicks the "Run" button the python script executes.
Unfortunately all output goes to stdout which isn't very desirable in a GUI
application.

My current plan is to use a C extension to Python that replaces sys.stdout
and channels all the script's output to a Cocoa NSTextView widget.
Unfortunately I don't really (if I can avoid it) write a full Python object
in C. There seems to be quite a lot of work involved to just replace the
stdout.write method.

Is there a callback or hook somewhere to control what stdout does in an
embedded Python application?

Cheers.

    Jon.