From eppstein@ics.uci.edu  Sun Jul  1 22:29:33 2001
From: eppstein@ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 14:29:33 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: No os._exit() in MacOS? (fwd)
Message-ID: <288239.3202986573@[192.168.1.102]>

This is regarding some problems I've been having with quitting W apps in 
MacPython -- Just found a workaround and suggested forwarding to this 
list. I've put the problematic source online at
http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/noquit.py
-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein@ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Date: Sunday, July 1, 2001 11:18 PM +0200
From: Just van Rossum <just@letterror.com>
To: David Eppstein <eppstein@ics.uci.edu>
Subject: Re: No os._exit() in MacOS?

Hi David,

> See attached source noquit.py, slightly modified from the example in
> http://www.nevada.edu/~cwebster/Python/WWidgets/usingW.html#applications
> I also made a file noquit.rsrc copied from
> http://www.nevada.edu/~cwebster/Python/WWidgets/MyApp.rsrc.hqx
> and saved as an applet from the IDE.
>
> When I run the resulting applet, cmd-Q quits normally,
> but pushing the "Quit" button (which just calls _quit)
> results in a frozen applet.

Ok, I managed to work around the problem: it seems to be a bug related to
the SIOUX output window. Please post a followup to the macpython list, as
I have no idea what exactly causes it -- it *is* a bug, and Jack should
know about it.

Here's the workaround recipe:
Drop the resource file belonging to your app (<appname>.rsrc) onto
EditPythonPrefs. Choose "Default Startup Options". Choose "Delay console
window until needed" as well as "Keep stdio window open on: *never*".
(Those are good settings for W apps anyway.) Now build your applet again.

Good luck!

Just

---------- End Forwarded Message ----------





From jack@oratrix.nl  Mon Jul  2 09:47:52 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 10:47:52 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPy 2.1: re module error in IDE
In-Reply-To: Message by Damon Butler <dbutler@impressions.com> ,
 29 Jun 01 17:20:50 -0500 , <3B3BEEB800000285@impmail.impinet.com> (added
 by impmail.impinet.com)
Message-ID: <20010702084753.40703303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

Damon,
there's two things I can say initially:
- Python 2.0.1 is much newer than Python 2.1, so that it's fixed in the latter 
doesn't necessarily mean the fix should be in 2.1. Did you check 2.1 on other 
platforms?
- There's two recursion limits in sre. One is the hard limit enforced by the 
engine, the other is a check for stack overflow, which will also cause a 
recursion limit. There is very little you can do about this, except for using 
ResEdit or Resorcerer to edit the stack size in the "cfrg" resource of 
PythonInterpreter and PythonIDE. I suspenc that you are running against the 
stack overflow.

The pre/IDE problem is strange. I'll leave it to Just to comment on this.

--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From just@letterror.com  Mon Jul  2 10:07:20 2001
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Mon,  2 Jul 2001 11:07:20 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPy 2.1: re module error in IDE
In-Reply-To: <3B3BEEB800000285@impmail.impinet.com> (added by impmail.impinet.com)
Message-ID: <20010702110723-r01010600-0bf3fb18@213.84.27.177>

Damon Butler wrote:

> TypeError: pcre_compile() argument 1 must be string without null bytes, not
> string

Ah, this seems due to the conversion from regex to re. Apparently, sre allows
null bytes in pattern strings, but pre doesnt :-(. As a workaround, you could
patch PyFontify:

import re

becomes:

import sre
re = sre

Hope this helps,

Just


From Damon Butler <dbutler@impressions.com>  Mon Jul  2 16:09:27 2001
From: Damon Butler <dbutler@impressions.com> (Damon Butler)
Date: 02 Jul 01 10:09:27 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPy 2.1: re module error in IDE
Message-ID: <3B3BEEB800000412@impmail.impinet.com> (added by impmail.impinet.com)

--====50524951505557555657===1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii"

         Reply to:   Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPy 2.1: re module error in IDE
Just,

>patch PyFontify:
>
>import re
>
>becomes:
>
>import sre
>re =3D sre

Writing to let you know your simple fix simply worked. Thanks for the =
debugging! Now if only Joe Strout's syntax coloring still worked... ;-)

--Damon
--====50524951505557555657===1
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-Ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD></HEAD><BODY>
<PRE =
WIDTH=3D"132">
         Reply to:   Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPy 2.1: re module error in IDE

</PRE>
<FONT FACE=3D"Geneva" SIZE=3D1 COLOR=3D"#000000">Just,<BR>
<BR>
&gt;patch =
PyFontify:<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;import re<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;becomes:<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;import =
sre<BR>
&gt;re =3D sre<BR>
<BR>
Writing to let you =
know your simple fix simply worked. Thanks =
for the debugging! Now if only Joe Strout's =
syntax coloring still worked... ;-)<BR>
<BR>
--Damon</FONT></BODY></HTML>
--====50524951505557555657===1--




From Damon Butler <dbutler@impressions.com>  Mon Jul  2 16:09:28 2001
From: Damon Butler <dbutler@impressions.com> (Damon Butler)
Date: 02 Jul 01 10:09:28 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPy 2.1: re module error in IDE
Message-ID: <3B3BEEB800000414@impmail.impinet.com> (added by impmail.impinet.com)

         Reply to:   Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPy 2.1: re module error in IDE =
Hi, Jack,

>- Python 2.0.1 is much newer than Python 2.1, so that it's fixed in the =
latter =
>doesn't necessarily mean the fix should be in 2.1.

This is I did not know.

>Did you check 2.1 on other platforms?

I've been trusting my Windows-using Python programmer next cube over, who'=
s regex scripts with sre apparently started working under 2.1 where they =
didn't under 2.0. I just ran a simple test on WinPy 2.1 myself, however, =
and was surprised at the results. See below.

 >- There's two recursion limits in sre. One is the hard limit enforced by =
the =
>engine, the other is a check for stack overflow, which will also cause a =
>recursion limit.

So which recursion limit is it that I'm encountering here? (I typed the =
following lines into the interpreter on both Mac and Win version of Py 2.1.=
)

>>> import sre, pre, string
>>> l =3D ["XXX", "%"*20000, "XXX"]
>>> =
>>> sre_regex =3D sre.compile(r"XXX.*?XXX")
>>> match_object =3D sre_regex.search(string.join(l))
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
RuntimeError: maximum recursion limit exceeded
>>> =
>>> pre_regex =3D pre.compile(r"XXX.*XXX")
>>> match_object =3D pre_regex.search(string.join(l))
>>> match_object
<pre.MatchObject instance at 0x04619c90>

It was this discrepancy between sre and pre that I reported as a bug to =
SourceForge (#437472), and was the recursion limit error I thought had =
been fixed. Apparently not in 2.1 on either Mac or Windows, anyway, but is =
it fixed in 2.0.1?

--Damon



From just@letterror.com  Mon Jul  2 16:26:00 2001
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Mon,  2 Jul 2001 17:26:00 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPy 2.1: re module error in IDE
In-Reply-To: <3B3BEEB800000412@impmail.impinet.com> (added by impmail.impinet.com)
Message-ID: <20010702172605-r01010600-fe6b3757@213.84.27.177>

Damon Butler wrote:

> Writing to let you know your simple fix simply worked. Thanks for the 
> debugging! Now if only Joe Strout's syntax coloring still worked... ;-)

It's quite possible PyFontify.py really is broken now. Dinu, if you're reading
this: I misplaced your re-i-fied PyFontify.py; can you send me your version? It
seems Jack has also done it, and I would like to compare the two...

Just


From jack@oratrix.nl  Mon Jul  2 16:39:23 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 17:39:23 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPy 2.1: re module error in IDE
In-Reply-To: Message by Damon Butler <dbutler@impressions.com> ,
 02 Jul 01 10:09:28 -0500 , <3B3BEEB800000414@impmail.impinet.com> (added
 by impmail.impinet.com)
Message-ID: <20010702153923.92DFA303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

I tested your snippet on MacPython as from the current CVS repository, and 
while it doesn't crash with the recursion error it also doesn't work: it 
returns None for the match object (and while I'm not a computer I'm under the 
distinct impression that it should return a match:-).

I've added a comment to your bug report, and I think we should wait to see 
what the sre guru's have to say about the matter.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de  Mon Jul  2 16:57:38 2001
From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman)
Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 17:57:38 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPy 2.1: re module error in IDE
References: <20010702172605-r01010600-fe6b3757@213.84.27.177>
Message-ID: <3B4099F2.20EC9301@darwin.in-berlin.de>

Just van Rossum wrote:
> 
> Damon Butler wrote:
> 
> > Writing to let you know your simple fix simply worked. Thanks for the
> > debugging! Now if only Joe Strout's syntax coloring still worked... ;-)
> 
> It's quite possible PyFontify.py really is broken now. Dinu, if you're reading
> this: I misplaced your re-i-fied PyFontify.py; can you send me your version? It
> seems Jack has also done it, and I would like to compare the two...

Just searched, rather superficially, though as I'm not having
much time right now while preparing to leave to Bordeaux. I've
not found any re-version on my box and I do not quite remember 
having adapted one myself to use re.

But using Google I found this which promises one re-version
of PyFontify:

  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-May/041235.html

Hope this is useful...

Regards,

Dinu

-- 
Dinu C. Gherman
ReportLab Consultant - http://www.reportlab.com
................................................................
"The only possible values [for quality] are 'excellent' and 'in-
sanely excellent', depending on whether lives are at stake or 
not. Otherwise you don't enjoy your work, you don't work well, 
and the project goes down the drain." 
                    (Kent Beck, "Extreme Programming Explained")


From DannyM@WSG.com  Mon Jul  2 22:26:03 2001
From: DannyM@WSG.com (Mendelsohn, Danny)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 17:26:03 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Learning Python on the Mac
Message-ID: <BDA2C4101249D31192E5009027289D52588512@PARIS>

Hello,

I downloaded Python 2.1 a couple of weeks ago and have been goofing of with
it at work on my NT Workstation(blech!) I really like Python and wan't to
take it a step further and really try and learn the language. I use Mac OS
9.1 at home and I've gone ahead and installed Python. I was going to buy the
o'reilly book by Mark Lutz. Does anyone know if I can apply what's in that
book to the Mac OS distribution of Python or are there glaring differences?

I guess what I'm most concerned about is the lack of a real command line and
having to deal with all that Mac Toolbox crap I've heard about.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Thank You

Mogador



From owen@astro.washington.edu  Mon Jul  2 23:34:34 2001
From: owen@astro.washington.edu (Russell E Owen)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:34:34 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Learning Python on the Mac
In-Reply-To: <BDA2C4101249D31192E5009027289D52588512@PARIS>
References: <BDA2C4101249D31192E5009027289D52588512@PARIS>
Message-ID: <p05100301b766a20e79fd@[128.95.99.44]>

>I downloaded Python 2.1 a couple of weeks ago and have been goofing of with
>it at work on my NT Workstation(blech!) I really like Python and wan't to
>take it a step further and really try and learn the language. I use Mac OS
>9.1 at home and I've gone ahead and installed Python. I was going to buy the
>o'reilly book by Mark Lutz. Does anyone know if I can apply what's in that
>book to the Mac OS distribution of Python or are there glaring differences?
>
>I guess what I'm most concerned about is the lack of a real command line and
>having to deal with all that Mac Toolbox crap I've heard about.

On the whole MacPython works superbly and is a pleasure to use. The 
IDE is nice, and if you prefer you can use BBEdit (with a free 3rd 
party language module) or Pepper (you get syntax coloring (though not 
the ability to run scripts from the editor). You can build 
drag-and-drop applications (that put the list of files into the usual 
arg list) as well as double-clickable applications.

As for a command line...you can get one as you launch a script if you 
want it (hold down the option key to control startup options or 
configure the interpreter to always ask for one).

Most Python libraries work on most platforms (see the docs or Python 
Essential Reference to check on specific libraries).

Some limitations include:
- GUI projects are in a sad state. The only standard GUI library 
ported to Mac OS is Tkinter, and it doesn't work perfectly (though is 
fine for basic stuff). The IDE doesn't work with Tkinter, resulting 
in a slow and clumsy development cycle.
- Mac memory management limits working with very large data sets. I 
hasten to add that this rarely causes me problems and I see few 
complaints here about it.

Regards,

-- Russell


From hummelsean@mac.com  Tue Jul  3 05:28:25 2001
From: hummelsean@mac.com (Sean Hummel)
Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 21:28:25 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Learning Python on the Mac
In-Reply-To: <p05100301b766a20e79fd@[128.95.99.44]>
Message-ID: <B76697F9.EE2%hummelsean@mac.com>

Danny, the best GUI out there being used by Python developers is wxPython,
but it hasn't yet been ported to the Macintosh.  It is probably one of the
biggest blocks to writing a complex GUI application on the Macintosh.


> From: Russell E Owen <owen@astro.washington.edu>
> Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:34:34 -0700
> To: "Mendelsohn, Danny" <DannyM@WSG.com>, Mac Python mailing list
> <pythonmac-sig@python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Learning Python on the Mac
> 
>> I downloaded Python 2.1 a couple of weeks ago and have been goofing of with
>> it at work on my NT Workstation(blech!) I really like Python and wan't to
>> take it a step further and really try and learn the language. I use Mac OS
>> 9.1 at home and I've gone ahead and installed Python. I was going to buy the
>> o'reilly book by Mark Lutz. Does anyone know if I can apply what's in that
>> book to the Mac OS distribution of Python or are there glaring differences?
>> 
>> I guess what I'm most concerned about is the lack of a real command line and
>> having to deal with all that Mac Toolbox crap I've heard about.
> 
> On the whole MacPython works superbly and is a pleasure to use. The
> IDE is nice, and if you prefer you can use BBEdit (with a free 3rd
> party language module) or Pepper (you get syntax coloring (though not
> the ability to run scripts from the editor). You can build
> drag-and-drop applications (that put the list of files into the usual
> arg list) as well as double-clickable applications.
> 
> As for a command line...you can get one as you launch a script if you
> want it (hold down the option key to control startup options or
> configure the interpreter to always ask for one).
> 
> Most Python libraries work on most platforms (see the docs or Python
> Essential Reference to check on specific libraries).
> 
> Some limitations include:
> - GUI projects are in a sad state. The only standard GUI library
> ported to Mac OS is Tkinter, and it doesn't work perfectly (though is
> fine for basic stuff). The IDE doesn't work with Tkinter, resulting
> in a slow and clumsy development cycle.
> - Mac memory management limits working with very large data sets. I
> hasten to add that this rarely causes me problems and I see few
> complaints here about it.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- Russell
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig



From sburr@home.com  Tue Jul  3 05:48:30 2001
From: sburr@home.com (Steven Burr)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 21:48:30 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Learning Python on the Mac
In-Reply-To: <BDA2C4101249D31192E5009027289D52588512@PARIS>
Message-ID: <20010703044635.GBRN22670.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@localhost>

On Monday, July 2, 2001, at 02:26 PM, Mendelsohn, Danny wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I downloaded Python 2.1 a couple of weeks ago and have been goofing of 
> with
> it at work on my NT Workstation(blech!) I really like Python and wan't 
> to
> take it a step further and really try and learn the language. I use Mac 
> OS
> 9.1 at home and I've gone ahead and installed Python. I was going to 
> buy the
> o'reilly book by Mark Lutz. Does anyone know if I can apply what's in 
> that
> book to the Mac OS distribution of Python or are there glaring 
> differences?
>
> I guess what I'm most concerned about is the lack of a real command 
> line and
> having to deal with all that Mac Toolbox crap I've heard about.
>
> Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

I'm also making my way through Programming Python on a Mac, but I'm 
running OS X rather than 9.  It's a fantastic book, but it might not be 
the best choice for learning Python on OS 9.

The first third focuses on command-line system tools.  Much of what it 
covers--e.g. using command-line arguments, piping commands from one 
process to another--would probably be unusable on OS 9.

The second third covers GUI programming using Tkinter, which, as someone 
else has pointed out, doesn't work well on OS 9.   (Tkinter doesn't work 
at all in Aqua, but I'm getting around that by running the Tkinter 
examples in XDarwin.  See http://www.mrcla.com/XonX/ for more info about 
this.)

Btw, I also have an NT workstation at my job.  It makes telecommuting a 
very attractive option.  : )


From dano@brightfire.com  Wed Jul  4 16:27:37 2001
From: dano@brightfire.com (Daniel Lord)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 08:27:37 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] GUI Alternatives: supplemental comments on Jython
In-Reply-To: <E15HSbk-0006qE-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <200107041527.LAA24371@glatton.cnchost.com>

--Apple-Mail-289481326-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset=us-ascii

On Tuesday, July 3, 2001, at 09:01 AM, pythonmac-sig-request@python.org 
wrote:

>> Some limitations include:
>> - GUI projects are in a sad state. The only standard GUI library
>> ported to Mac OS is Tkinter, and it doesn't work perfectly (though is
>> fine for basic stuff). The IDE doesn't work with Tkinter, resulting
>> in a slow and clumsy development cycle.

Just an FYI to round out the GUI comments.
Someone has probably pointed this out before, but for anyone who knows 
Java, Jython, the Python interpreter that runs in a Java 2 VM, is an 
excellent  GUI alternative for traditional Python GUIs on OSX. Java 2 of 
course uses Aqua so XDarwin isn't required and the screen contention 
issues between X and Aqua are eliminated. I still cannot get rootless X 
running flawlessly (the window borders disappear  and the menu 
characters are wrong and unreadable) with XFree86 4.1 though it sort of 
works :-(.

While the learning curve is a little steep (no worse than Tkinter 
though), it uses the full capability of Java as far as I can tell. Once 
you understand the syntax to call Java from Jython, you have all of Java 
available as far as I can tell so far. I can use GridBagLayout (as well 
as the other layout managers) and the full suite of Swing components. I 
have created event listeners for lsits, button, windows, etc.--so it 
really is  pretty complete implementation. Of course you can run plain 
Python through as well. Documentation is sparse ( I hope to contribute 
in someway soon), but the sig archives are very helpful.

Full Python support is incomplete, particularly where C code is 
involved, Numeric for instance (although someone has a JNumrice prot in 
Java of Numeric that is supposed to be good). Serial port access or env 
vars require JNI.

One can also call Java from Jython including jars and invoke Jython from 
Java. One can also include a single Python program in a jar along with 
Java that is the first thing invoked. As Java support is strengthened on 
OSX (I've uncovered a few cosmetic bugs but no show-stoppers yet), 
Jython may prove to be the most portable way to use Python most of the 
time (some Java limitations like no direct access to env do get in the 
way sometimes). Overall though I use Jython more than Python now, 
particularly since I can call JavaBeans  and jars from Jython. It isn't 
a perfect replacement (there never is) but if Tkinter/X is problematic 
for you, have a look you might be pleasantly surprised. Of course the 
IDE for Python is useless, but I like it nonetheless.

http://www.jython.org
Jython-users@lists.sourceforge.net
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-users

--Apple-Mail-289481326-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/enriched;
	charset=us-ascii

On Tuesday, July 3, 2001, at 09:01 AM,
pythonmac-sig-request@python.org wrote:


<excerpt><excerpt>Some limitations include:

- GUI projects are in a sad state. The only standard GUI library

ported to Mac OS is Tkinter, and it doesn't work perfectly (though is

fine for basic stuff). The IDE doesn't work with Tkinter, resulting

in a slow and clumsy development cycle.

</excerpt></excerpt>

Just an FYI to round out the GUI comments.

Someone has probably pointed this out before, but for anyone who knows
Java, Jython, the Python interpreter that runs in a Java 2 VM, is an
excellent  GUI alternative for traditional Python GUIs on OSX. Java 2
of course uses Aqua so XDarwin isn't required and the screen
contention issues between X and Aqua are eliminated. I still cannot
get rootless X running flawlessly (the window borders disappear  and
the menu characters are wrong and unreadable) with XFree86 4.1 though
it sort of works :-(.=20


While the learning curve is a little steep (no worse than Tkinter
though), it uses the full capability of Java as far as I can tell.
Once you understand the syntax to call Java from Jython, you have all
of Java available as far as I can tell so far. I can use GridBagLayout
(as well as the other layout managers) and the full suite of Swing
components. I have created event listeners for lsits, button, windows,
etc.--so it really is  pretty complete implementation. Of course you
can run plain Python through as well. Documentation is sparse ( I hope
to contribute in someway soon), but the sig archives are very helpful.


Full Python support is incomplete, particularly where C code is
involved, Numeric for instance (although someone has a JNumrice prot
in Java of Numeric that is supposed to be good). Serial port access or
env vars require JNI.=20


One can also call Java from Jython including jars and invoke Jython
from Java. One can also include a single Python program in a jar along
with Java that is the first thing invoked. As Java support is
strengthened on OSX (I've uncovered a few cosmetic bugs but no
show-stoppers yet), Jython may prove to be the most portable way to
use Python most of the time (some Java limitations like no direct
access to env do get in the way sometimes). Overall though I use
Jython more than Python now, particularly since I can call JavaBeans=20
and jars from Jython. It isn't a perfect replacement (there never is)
but if Tkinter/X is problematic for you, have a look you might be
pleasantly surprised. Of course the IDE for Python is useless, but I
like it nonetheless.


http://www.jython.org

<fixed><smaller>Jython-users@lists.sourceforge.net

=
<underline><color><param>1A1A,1A1A,FFFF</param>http://lists.sourceforge.ne=
t/lists/listinfo/jython-users</color></underline>

</smaller></fixed>=

--Apple-Mail-289481326-1--


From trace@reinventnow.com  Wed Jul  4 21:38:00 2001
From: trace@reinventnow.com (tracy s. ruggles)
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 15:38:00 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] "Bad marshal data" on startup...
Message-ID: <B768E8D7.3796%trace@reinventnow.com>

Hi, I'm Python-less right now and my life seems so totally meaningless!  :-)

My Python IDE won't start-up for either 2.0 or 2.1.  I even tried
re-installing 2.1 to clean up the installation.  But, every time, I get this
traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:PythonIDE.py", line 41, in ?
    import PythonIDEMain
  File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:PythonIDEMain.py", line 254, in ?
    PythonIDE()
  File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:PythonIDEMain.py", line 16, in
__init__
    Wapplication.Application.__init__(self, 'Pide')
  File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:Wapplication.py", line 18, in
__init__
    FrameWork.Application.__init__(self)
  File "thegarden:python 2.0:mac:lib:FrameWork.py", line 105, in __init__
    self.makemenubar()
  File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:Wapplication.py", line 247, in
makemenubar
    self.makeusermenus()
  File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:PythonIDEMain.py", line 101, in
makeusermenus
    prefs = self.getprefs()
  File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:Wapplication.py", line 377, in
getprefs
    return MacPrefs.GetPrefs(self.preffilepath)
  File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:MacPrefs.py", line 106, in
GetPrefs
    preffile = PrefFile(path, creator)
  File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:MacPrefs.py", line 53, in
__init__
    prefdict = marshal.load(open(self.__path, 'rb'))
ValueError: bad marshal data

..

The interpreter will start-up fine, but I've become so dependent on the IDE
that I can't imagine working with just the interpreter anymore.  Has this
happened to anyone else and how do I get the IDE back?!?

Thanks,
Tracy


--
Tracy S. Ruggles :: trace@reinventnow.com :: 512/858.2280

"RHUBARB. / Rhubarb is susan not susan not seat in bunch toys not wild and
laughable not in little places not in neglect and vegetable not in fold coal
age not please." -- Gertrude Stein




From jack@oratrix.nl  Wed Jul  4 22:00:49 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 23:00:49 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] "Bad marshal data" on startup...
In-Reply-To: Message by "tracy s. ruggles" <trace@reinventnow.com> ,
 Wed, 04 Jul 2001 15:38:00 -0500 , <B768E8D7.3796%trace@reinventnow.com>
Message-ID: <20010704210054.0BFEADA740@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, "tracy s. ruggles" <trace@reinventnow.com> said:
> Hi, I'm Python-less right now and my life seems so totally meaningless!  :-)

Well, I think we can solve that one (the python-less one, not the
meaningless bit:-)
>   File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:PythonIDEMain.py", line 101, in
> makeusermenus
>     prefs = self.getprefs()
>   File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:Wapplication.py", line 377, in
> getprefs
>     return MacPrefs.GetPrefs(self.preffilepath)
>   File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:MacPrefs.py", line 106, in
> GetPrefs
>     preffile = PrefFile(path, creator)
>   File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:MacPrefs.py", line 53, in
> __init__
>     prefdict = marshal.load(open(self.__path, 'rb'))
> ValueError: bad marshal data

Your IDE preferences have become corrupted. The workaround is easy:
remove them. They're in System Folder:Preferences:Python somewhere.

Why your preferences have become corrupt is a mystery to me, I haven't
heard of this happening before.

Just, could you arm the IDE against this with a try/except?
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From trace@reinventnow.com  Wed Jul  4 22:39:24 2001
From: trace@reinventnow.com (tracy s. ruggles)
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 16:39:24 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: "Bad marshal data" on startup...
In-Reply-To: <B768E8D7.3796%trace@reinventnow.com>
Message-ID: <B768F73C.3797%trace@reinventnow.com>

Well, I just trashed the Python preferences folder in the system folder,
reinstalled and everything is fine.  Does anybody know what happened?

--t

on 7/4/01 3:38 PM, tracy s. ruggles at trace@reinventnow.com wrote:

> Hi, I'm Python-less right now and my life seems so totally meaningless!  :-)
> 
> My Python IDE won't start-up for either 2.0 or 2.1.  I even tried
> re-installing 2.1 to clean up the installation.  But, every time, I get this
> traceback:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:PythonIDE.py", line 41, in ?
>   import PythonIDEMain
> File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:PythonIDEMain.py", line 254, in ?
>   PythonIDE()
> File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:PythonIDEMain.py", line 16, in
> __init__
>   Wapplication.Application.__init__(self, 'Pide')
> File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:Wapplication.py", line 18, in
> __init__
>   FrameWork.Application.__init__(self)
> File "thegarden:python 2.0:mac:lib:FrameWork.py", line 105, in __init__
>   self.makemenubar()
> File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:Wapplication.py", line 247, in
> makemenubar
>   self.makeusermenus()
> File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:PythonIDEMain.py", line 101, in
> makeusermenus
>   prefs = self.getprefs()
> File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:Wapplication.py", line 377, in
> getprefs
>   return MacPrefs.GetPrefs(self.preffilepath)
> File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:MacPrefs.py", line 106, in GetPrefs
>   preffile = PrefFile(path, creator)
> File "theGarden:Python 2.0:Mac:Tools:IDE:MacPrefs.py", line 53, in __init__
>   prefdict = marshal.load(open(self.__path, 'rb'))
> ValueError: bad marshal data
> 
> ..
> 
> The interpreter will start-up fine, but I've become so dependent on the IDE
> that I can't imagine working with just the interpreter anymore.  Has this
> happened to anyone else and how do I get the IDE back?!?
> 
> Thanks,
> Tracy
> 
> 
> --
> Tracy S. Ruggles :: trace@reinventnow.com :: 512/858.2280
> 
> "RHUBARB. / Rhubarb is susan not susan not seat in bunch toys not wild and
> laughable not in little places not in neglect and vegetable not in fold coal
> age not please." -- Gertrude Stein
> 

--
Tracy S. Ruggles :: trace@reinventnow.com :: 512/858.2280

"RHUBARB. / Rhubarb is susan not susan not seat in bunch toys not wild and
laughable not in little places not in neglect and vegetable not in fold coal
age not please." -- Gertrude Stein




From jack@oratrix.nl  Wed Jul  4 23:08:51 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 00:08:51 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Filename encodings on the Mac
Message-ID: <20010704220856.8D172DA740@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

In the process of getting better unicode support I'm now looking at
converting unicode strings to 8-bit strings correctly for filenames.

Python has hooks to do this, but I must say I'm rather unsure how
MacOS handles encodings. If I create a disk on a macroman system and
then bring it to a macgreek system, what will happen to my filenames?
Is it only the current script/language setting that influences how
filenames are interpreted, or does the disk (filename?) actually store
the fact that it was created on a macroman system?
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | ++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/ ++++


From just@letterror.com  Thu Jul  5 07:53:31 2001
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Thu,  5 Jul 2001 08:53:31 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] "Bad marshal data" on startup...
In-Reply-To: <20010704210054.0BFEADA740@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <20010705085340-r01010600-4e472829@194.94.211.197>

Jack Jansen wrote:

> Just, could you arm the IDE against this with a try/except?

I guess that would be a good thing. Still: it seems a *very* rare thing... Or at
least it has _never_ happended to me in all those years of developing and using
the IDE, and I hardly ever erase the IDE prefs. I use different Python versions
(1.5.1 -> 2.2a0), and all IDE's use the same prefs file: I've never seen a
problem.

Just


From kp87@lycos.com  Thu Jul  5 13:34:07 2001
From: kp87@lycos.com (kevin parks)
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 21:34:07 +0900
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Syntax coloring, etc.
Message-ID: <CONLBNKPLGGLAAAA@mailcity.com>

Hi. I am using Python 2.1 on OS 9.1 (also under X, but right now only experimentally) I was wondering how does one get the syntax coloring and other such niceties of the IDLE to show up in the Mac IDE? Is there some module that has to be imported to turn it on? I don't own Pepper or BBedit (only the lite version, which is free) and cannot buy either as i live in Korea and have no credit card. I was hoping that there was still a way to get the Mac IDE suped up a bit with some extra niceties.

Any tips on making the Mac IDE more... uhm.. pleasant like the UNIX and Windoze IDEs (IDLE and the PythonWin package doodad).

cheers,

-kevin--
kp87@lycos.com

ps. I am also, incidentally, trying to get the hang of list comprehensions, which is a new language construct for Python 2.x. If anyone knows any really clear & basic toots on this aspect of the language i would love to know. As this query is off topic, perhaps off-list is better.




Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/


From trace@reinventnow.com  Thu Jul  5 15:00:10 2001
From: trace@reinventnow.com (tracy s. ruggles)
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 09:00:10 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] "Bad marshal data" on startup...
In-Reply-To: <20010705085340-r01010600-4e472829@194.94.211.197>
Message-ID: <B769DD18.37A9%trace@reinventnow.com>

I can't think of anything that I've done recently that might have corrupted
the prefs file, except for running Norton Disk Doctor and having it fix all
the "tiny" problems it finds like modification dates and bundle bits and
whatnot.  Though, I wouldn't imagine it would actually corrupt a file.
Maybe it did...

--T

on 7/5/01 1:53 AM, Just van Rossum at just@letterror.com wrote:

> Jack Jansen wrote:
> 
>> Just, could you arm the IDE against this with a try/except?
> 
> I guess that would be a good thing. Still: it seems a *very* rare thing... Or
> at
> least it has _never_ happended to me in all those years of developing and
> using
> the IDE, and I hardly ever erase the IDE prefs. I use different Python
> versions
> (1.5.1 -> 2.2a0), and all IDE's use the same prefs file: I've never seen a
> problem.
> 
> Just
> 



From jwblist@olympus.net  Thu Jul  5 16:51:44 2001
From: jwblist@olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 08:51:44 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] "Bad marshal data" on startup...
In-Reply-To: <B769DD18.37A9%trace@reinventnow.com>
References: <B769DD18.37A9%trace@reinventnow.com>
Message-ID: <p05101001b76a3bdabef6@[207.149.192.229]>

At 9:00 -0500 7/5/2001, tracy s. ruggles wrote:
>I can't think of anything that I've done recently that might have corrupted
>the prefs file, except for running Norton Disk Doctor and having it fix all
>the "tiny" problems it finds like modification dates and bundle bits and
>whatnot.  Though, I wouldn't imagine it would actually corrupt a file.
>Maybe it did...

I gave up letting Norton "fix" bundle bits and the like many years ago,
when I noted that Norton was "fixing" files of new varieties fresh off
Apple's installs.  My feeling was that Apple probably shipped (most of) the
files the way they intended them to be.  This coincided roughly with the
conversion of the Peter Norton Group into just another part of Symantec
(they had survived pretty much intact for a couple of years and had still
done good work even under Symantec).

  --john

-- 
John Baxter   jwblist@olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA


From Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de  Thu Jul  5 18:20:26 2001
From: Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de (Aureli Soria Frisch)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 19:20:26 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Plotting with gnuplot iunder MacPython
In-Reply-To: <CONLBNKPLGGLAAAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <l03010d00b76a50e90902@[153.97.92.109]>

Hi,

I am using MacPython 2.0 and Gnuplot.py version 1.5 (based on Gnuplot 3.7.1a).

It seems that the number of plots per window (plot + replot) is limited to
4, although the number of point styles is 6 (checked with the function test
on the gnupplot console).

Moreover, when putting a legend (with the option title) this number is
reduced to 2.

I have tried to increase the memory of Gnuplot, but nothing changed.
Can someone tell something about these?

Thanks in advance,
Aureli

#################################
Aureli Soria Frisch
Fraunhofer IPK
Dept. Pattern Recognition

post: Pascalstr. 8-9, 10587 Berlin, Germany
e-mail:aureli@ipk.fhg.de
fon: +49 30 39006-150
fax: +49 30 3917517
#################################




From kp87@lycos.com  Fri Jul  6 08:32:33 2001
From: kp87@lycos.com (kevin parks)
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 16:32:33 +0900
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] batch convert line endings
Message-ID: <KKNJOFPHKFMHFCAA@mailcity.com>

What are people using to batch convert folders full of text files that may have DOS or UNIX line endings to Mac line endings? I was using Cyclone, but it is a pain in the butt as it prompts for each file and also it does a lot more than convert line endings so it is not really optimized just for that. I would love a little droplet like Drop•BB or Drop RENAME, etc. that i could put on my desk top and then drag and drop the folder on to it and have all the files changed to Mac line endings. Of course, Mac to UNIX aor DOS line endings would be good too! in case you wanted to send a folder of stuff from your MAC to a Windoze or UNIX user.

cheers,
-kp--


Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/


From mjb@thp.Uni-Koeln.DE  Fri Jul  6 09:10:25 2001
From: mjb@thp.Uni-Koeln.DE (MichaelJ Barber)
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:10:25 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] batch convert line endings
In-Reply-To: <KKNJOFPHKFMHFCAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.1010706094454.27202B-100000@sun80.thp.Uni-Koeln.DE>

On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, kevin parks wrote:

> What are people using to batch convert folders full of text files 
>

I use something called "Odd Jobs" to do this.  It's a shareware
program that lets you create little file-processing "joblets" (droplets)
to do a variety of tasks.  Several joblets come with Odd Jobs 
and it is pretty easy to make new joblets.  A joblet to convert line 
endings to Mac format is included, and can be easily modified to
make joblets converting to Unix and DOS formats.

I have no idea how well Odd Jobs works under OS X, if at all.  I
have used it without problems under OS 8.1 and OS 8.6 (mostly the
latter).

No connection to the author of Odd Jobs, just a satisfied user of some
of his software.  You can get it at <http://www.trevorrow.com/oddjobs/>.



From jack@oratrix.nl  Fri Jul  6 09:44:33 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:44:33 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] The Official MacPython LineEnding Converter Competition
In-Reply-To: Message by "kevin parks" <kp87@lycos.com> ,
 Fri, 06 Jul 2001 16:32:33 +0900 , <KKNJOFPHKFMHFCAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <20010706084434.11347303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> What are people using to batch convert folders full of text files that =
may
> have DOS or UNIX line endings to Mac line endings?

This question is asked *so* often, that I hereby declare started

   The Official MacPython LineEnding Converter Competition

The winning applet will be included prominently in the next MacPython =

distribution, with the author's name featuring in the "thanks" list. The =

author will also receive 1 (one) free copy of MacPython, in addition to =

eternal fame.

Entries should at least
- have a decent UI. This means either an applet with a nice icon, or a pl=
ugin =

for IDE.
- allow folders to be dropped on them (or be selected, if an IDE plugin),=
 =

recursively converting files
- give a report of what they did (which files they converted) and optiona=
lly =

run in "dry run" mode where they only show what they would like to do
- be safe, i.e. not remove the original before the new copy is safely on =
disk, =

not mistreat non-text files, etc.
- come with source. *Readable* source. Extra points if the source is so =

readable that the script can go straight into the "examples" section.

There's of course lots of nifty things that can gain you extra points, su=
ch as =

an option to do only .py files or all text files, an option to set the =

creator/type for .py files, an option to convert back to unix/dos endings=
, etc.

Entries should be sent to the list, and the whole list will judge which s=
cript =

wins. If there's a tie the list maintainer (indeed, me:-) gets the tiebre=
aking =

vote.

Entries should be in by August 1.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++=

Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig =
++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.=
htm =





From moehl@akaflieg.extern.tu-berlin.de  Fri Jul  6 11:49:35 2001
From: moehl@akaflieg.extern.tu-berlin.de (Torsten Sadowski)
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:49:35 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Filename encodings on the Mac
In-Reply-To: <20010704220856.8D172DA740@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0107061246390.12494-100000@akaflieg.extern.tu-berlin.de>

I would suspect that MacOS does not differentiate between systems. I once
installed a hungarian system and before the installation I had very
strange filenames. It seems, MacOS just uses its own 8bit encoding and
ignores everything else.

Torsten





From richard@richardgordon.net  Fri Jul  6 14:35:08 2001
From: richard@richardgordon.net (Richard Gordon)
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:35:08 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] batch convert line endings
In-Reply-To: <KKNJOFPHKFMHFCAA@mailcity.com>
References: <KKNJOFPHKFMHFCAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <v04205500b76b6a61ceb3@[192.168.0.2]>

At 4:32 PM +0900 7/6/01, kevin parks wrote:
>What are people using to batch convert folders full of text files 
>that may have DOS or UNIX line endings to Mac line endings?

hi-

If you just want something simple and fast, the script below works 
for me and will run thru a folder structure recursively. A few notes:

* It saves each original file by appending a ~ to the name, then 
blows the original away once the conversion is complete. This is lame 
and came about because I was having trouble overwriting the original 
directly and was in a hurry to get something working.
* I am running it by launching with the option key down and feeding 
in the pathname to the base folder; it would be better if it gave you 
a get folder dialog should sys.arg[1] be missing. This is easy using 
macfs.GetDirectory('Folder to search:'), I just never got around to 
it.
* Converting this to an application/applet will let you do the drag & 
drop if you prefer that.
* Strictly unix and/or windoze -> Mac conversion. Somebody else 
posted a script here a while back that went in any direction and, as 
I recall, didn't permanently convert anything, but converted endings 
on the fly as needed- seems like the idea was to import it as a 
module, then feed input files thru it into the main script that did 
whatever you were trying to do, tho I never tried it and could be 
wrong about that.
* Email tends to hose up indentation, so if this doesn't run check 
the whitespace.

Have fun.
__________________
#!/usr/bin/env python

import sys, os
from time import time

start = time()
indir = sys.argv[1:]
fcount = 0

def strip(f):
	global fcount
	zap = 0
	infh = open(f, 'rb').read()
	os.rename(f, f +'~')
	outfh = open(f, 'wb')
	if infh.find('\r\n') != -1:
		outfh.write(infh.replace('\n',''))
		zap = 1
	elif infh.find('\n') != -1:
		outfh.write(infh.replace('\n','\r'))
		zap = 1
	else: pass
	outfh.close()
	if zap > 0:
		os.remove(f +'~')
	fcount = fcount + 1
	return
def run(d):
	names = os.listdir(d)
	for name in names:
		f = d + ':' + name
		if os.path.isfile(f):
			if os.path.splitext(f)[1]=='.py':
				strip(f)
		else: run(f)

for arg in indir:
	run(arg)
stop = time()
elapsed = stop-start
print "Changed %d files in %d seconds" % (fcount, elapsed)

#eof


Richard Gordon
--------------------
Gordon Design
Web Design/Database Development
http://www.richardgordon.net



From owen@astro.washington.edu  Fri Jul  6 18:20:19 2001
From: owen@astro.washington.edu (Russell E Owen)
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:20:19 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] batch convert line endings
In-Reply-To: <KKNJOFPHKFMHFCAA@mailcity.com>
References: <KKNJOFPHKFMHFCAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <v04220804b76ba365f69a@[140.142.183.142]>

One utility that works is "Change Type and Creator", also called=20
"ctc". It's free and should be available from the usual Mac archives,=20
though it's old. If you have trouble finding it, let me know and I'll=20
email you a copy.

Despite the name it include EOL conversion as an option.

However, you cannot create "droplets" that do just a specific task.=20
Each time you drop a set of files you get to pick your conversion.

-- Russell

At 4:32 PM +0900 7/6/01, kevin parks wrote:
>What are people using to batch convert folders full of text files=20
>that may have DOS or UNIX line endings to Mac line endings? I was=20
>using Cyclone, but it is a pain in the butt as it prompts for each=20
>file and also it does a lot more than convert line endings so it is=20
>not really optimized just for that. I would love a little droplet=20
>like Drop=EFBB or Drop RENAME, etc. that i could put on my desk top=20
>and then drag and drop the folder on to it and have all the files=20
>changed to Mac line endings. Of course, Mac to UNIX aor DOS line=20
>endings would be good too! in case you wanted to send a folder of=20
>stuff from your MAC to a Windoze or UNIX user.


From richard@richardgordon.net  Fri Jul  6 23:39:38 2001
From: richard@richardgordon.net (Richard Gordon)
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:39:38 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [OT] Python & MySQL Interaction
Message-ID: <v04205500b76be9543c69@[192.168.0.2]>

Since I've never even seen a binary of MySQLdb for the Mac and I am 
using linux for web stuff anyway, this is off topic but I thought you 
might be interested in a searchable version of "The Devil's 
Dictionary" by Ambrose Bierce that I published on my website using 
python and MySQL purely for the hell of it.

Apart from providing the opportunity to experience Bierce's peculiar 
brand of dripping sarcasm, I've included a link to the source code at 
the bottom of http://richardgordon.net/new/dictionary.html if you 
should be curious about how this stuff works. I personally have 
little use for MySQL and would much prefer PostgreSQL, but my web 
host has other thoughts on the subject and, in any case, the drill is 
pretty much the same as far as the python interface goes. Enjoy it, 
ignore it, whatever. I welcome any criticisms, but have not bothered 
to bullet-proof this against some fairly obvious web attacks since I 
was disclosing the source anyway, so please don't trash the server 
even if you know how. Thanks.

Richard Gordon
--------------------
Gordon Design
Web Design/Database Development
http://www.richardgordon.net



From chrishbarker@home.net  Sat Jul  7 00:50:29 2001
From: chrishbarker@home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 16:50:29 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] The Official MacPython LineEnding Converter
 Competition
References: <20010706084434.11347303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <3B464EC5.91D48333@home.net>

Jack Jansen wrote:

> There's of course lots of nifty things that can gain you extra points, such as
> an option to do only .py files or all text files, an option to set the
> creator/type for .py files, an option to convert back to unix/dos endings, etc.


Another very nifty option would be to include indentation conversion:
The removal of any mixed tab+spaces indentation, and perhaps conversion
to all tabs or all spaces. The "Official" Standard now is all spaces,
but
all tabs works much better in the IDE, and most Mac Editors, so that's
what I use on the Mac.

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker@home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mday@mac.com  Sun Jul  8 02:15:44 2001
From: mday@mac.com (Mark Day)
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 18:15:44 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Filename encodings on the Mac
In-Reply-To: <20010704220856.8D172DA740@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <B76D024F.12B8%mday@mac.com>

on 7/4/01 3:08 PM, Jack Jansen at jack@oratrix.nl wrote:

> In the process of getting better unicode support I'm now looking at
> converting unicode strings to 8-bit strings correctly for filenames.
> 
> Python has hooks to do this, but I must say I'm rather unsure how
> MacOS handles encodings. If I create a disk on a macroman system and
> then bring it to a macgreek system, what will happen to my filenames?
> Is it only the current script/language setting that influences how
> filenames are interpreted, or does the disk (filename?) actually store
> the fact that it was created on a macroman system?

HFS volumes store filenames as a sequence of one to 31 bytes.  There is no
encoding stored with the name.  How those bytes are interpretted is up to
the application.

HFS Plus volumes store filenames as a sequence of one to 255 16-bit Unicode
characters.  The catalog record contains a text encoding hint that suggests
a Mac text encoding that will preserve the filename bytes when using the HFS
APIs (eg., HCreate and PBGetCatInfo).

The File Manager maintains a default text encoding which it uses as a
default when it needs to convert input names to or from Unicode.  This
default encoding is usually the text encoding associated with the Finder's
view font, but Installer can change the default encoding when installing a
localized OS (so that the encodings stored on an HFS Plus volume are
correct).

Suppose you're running Mac OS 9 or earlier, and Finder's view font is a
MacRoman font (such as Geneva).  Create or rename a file or folder in the
Finder.  On an HFS volume, those characters you typed are converted to bytes
using the MacRoman encoding; those bytes are stored in the catalog.  On an
HFS Plus volume, those bytes get converted to Unicode using the MacRoman
encoding, and the text encoding hint is set to MacRoman.  Note that MacRoman
uses one byte per character, and all 256 byte values represent a valid
character in the encoding.

Now suppose you change the view font to Osaka.  The text encoding associated
with Osaka is MacJapanse, so the File Manager's default encoding is set to
MacJapanese.  When the Finder displays an HFS filename, the string of bytes
on disk are returned unchanged by PBGetCatInfo, and Finder displays them as
if they are in MacJapanese encoding (regardless of the encoding used when
the name was created or renamed!).  On an HFS Plus volume, the PBGetCatInfo
call converts the Unicode on disk to a string of bytes based on the text
encoding stored in that catalog record, and Finder displays those bytes as
if they are in MacJapanese.  Finder in Mac OS 9 and earlier does not use the
HFS Plus APIs except for copying files, so it doesn't know the text encoding
hint associated with the name.

Note that MacJapanese uses either one or two bytes per character, and that
some sequences of bytes do not result in valid MacJapanese characters.  As
it happens, plain old ASCII is a subset of all of the Mac encodings.  If you
created a name using MacRoman, and it contains non-ASCII characters (such as
accented characters), those non-ASCII characters may or may not result in
valid (meaningful) Japanese characters.  Typcially the non-ASCII character
and the following (MacRoman) character are converted to a single (two-byte)
MacJapanese character.

If you created the filename using MacJapanese, the MacJapanese characters
would be converted to a sequence of bytes on HFS, or to Unicode and a
MacJapanese text encoding hint.  If you switch to MacRoman, the File Manager
returns the same sequence of bytes, and non-ASCII characters from the
MacJapanese name get displayed as two characters (the first one being
non-ASCII).

The Mac OS X Finder uses the HFS Plus APIs (eg., FSGetCatalogInfo), so it
uses Unicode when calling the File Manager or displaying names.  On HFS Plus
volumes, that Unicode is passed back and forth essentially unchanged
(Unicode allows the same string to be encoded using different sequences of
Unicode code points, and HFS Plus always stores names on disk in one
canonical form).  On HFS volumes, those Unicode strings are converted to a
(single) Mac encoding when being stored, and converted from a Mac encoding
to Unicode when coming back from the File Manager.

Remember that a Unicode string can contain characters from multiple
languages, and it may be impossible to convert it to a string in any single
Mac encoding.

Hope this helps.  If you have more questions (and I'm sure you will!), let
me know.

-Mark



From jack@oratrix.nl  Sun Jul  8 21:56:53 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 22:56:53 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Filename encodings on the Mac
In-Reply-To: Message by Mark Day <mday@mac.com> ,
 Sat, 07 Jul 2001 18:15:44 -0700 , <B76D024F.12B8%mday@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20010708205658.EEADADA741@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Mark,
thanks, that was very helpful!

I think that this means that the solution I've just implemented (when
you pass a unicode string where an 8-bit string is expected we convert
with to the encoding of the current system font) is probably the best
we can do. Unicode characters that are representable in the current
encoding are passed through unscathed, and we can't do any better as
the APIs underlying Python open() and friends (libc fopen(), in this
case) don't allow us to do any better.

But there's still a problem with the multibyte system fonts, I think.
If MacPython knows there's no Python unicode codec for the current
encoding it pretends that 8bit characters are MacRoman. So, passing a
correct unicode Japanese filename to open() will cause it to fail if
there are non-ascii characters in there: the Python unicode->macroman
converter will complain that the characters are not available in the
macroman set. Returning MacRoman is my guess, the alternative is
returning "ascii", which will only allow 7bit characters. If people
using multibyte systems (or single-byte systems for an encoding for
which no Python unicode codec yet exists) feel that returning ascii
would be a better idea: let me know. Or better, let's discuss this on
the mailing list.

It must be possible to create a multibyte MacJapanese <-> Unicode
codec with the Python unicode infrastructure: after all there's a
utf-8 codec too, and that's also a multibyte encoding. But I'm
completely out of my water here. If someone wants to create one and
contribute it I'll gladly try and have it incorporated in the standard
distribution, and I can put people into contact with the Python
unicode gurus, but that's about as much as I can promise.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Sun Jul  8 22:35:15 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 23:35:15 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Anyone using mfs_GetFSSpecFSSpec?
Message-ID: <20010708213520.8DB0BDA741@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Has anyone written extension modules that use mfs_GetFSSpecFSSpec
directly? You shouldn't (PyMac_GetFSSpec is the right way to get an
FSSpec), and I'm replacing it with another routine, but it would be 10
seconds work to keep it for backward compatibility if anyone wants it,
so speak up now if you do.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | ++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/ ++++


From kp87@lycos.com  Mon Jul  9 11:50:02 2001
From: kp87@lycos.com (parks  kevin)
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 19:50:02 +0900
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] executing scripts on OS X
Message-ID: <NAAIKOOMDGBJAAAA@mailcity.com>

I am trying to get python going on my OS X partition. I was able to make a text file called hello.py and put in it the revolutionary and complex bit of code

!#/usr/local/bin/python
print "hello, fool!"


Now when i did:

% python hello.py

everything was dandy.

however i did the CHMOD bit to make the file executable and the tried sh-banging it

% hello.py

nothing. just hello.py: Command not found.
i also tried :

!#/usr/bin/python
!#/usr/bin/env python

but no go! Is there a Python env variable or something that needs to be set or a path modification that i have missed?

obviously python is on my path since i can get the interpreter.

Sorry about this, I used to have a NeXT machine (*sigh*) and haven't used UNIX since then. Much is the same, But almost as much is different. tcsh i wildly different. I don't understand the new system of startup files. in the old days you had .login .logout and .tcshrc. Now there is a boat load of start-up files in a global + user muckable system, with links and pointers everywhere. Add to this mess that Apple (Unlike NeXT) treats us like babies and only allows us to muck with invisibles via the shell. (open -a TextEdit foo.py never works for me for some reason) and wouldn't you know it the csh/vi part of my brain has been accidentally erased.

cheers,
-kevin





Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/


From jacobkm@cats.ucsc.edu  Mon Jul  9 12:11:21 2001
From: jacobkm@cats.ucsc.edu (Jacob Kaplan-Moss)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:11:21 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] executing scripts on OS X
In-Reply-To: <NAAIKOOMDGBJAAAA@mailcity.com>
References: <NAAIKOOMDGBJAAAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <p05001902b76f40f1db0b@[62.253.148.135]>

At 7:50 PM +0900 7/9/01, parks  kevin wrote:
[snip]
>Now when i did:
>
>% python hello.py
>
>everything was dandy.
>
>however i did the CHMOD bit to make the file executable and the 
>tried sh-banging it
>
>% hello.py
>
>nothing. just hello.py: Command not found.


Try:

% ./hello.py

Why?

Under a *nix, you've got to give a full path for any command.  So if 
the file "hello.py" is in a directory that you have in your PATH 
(i.e. /usr/bin or something) it will work just fine, but since (I'm 
assuming) hello.py is not in your PATH, you need to tell the shell 
where that file is.

Hope that helps,

-j


From jack@oratrix.nl  Mon Jul  9 13:10:56 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 14:10:56 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] executing scripts on OS X
In-Reply-To: Message by "parks kevin" <kp87@lycos.com> ,
 Mon, 09 Jul 2001 19:50:02 +0900 , <NAAIKOOMDGBJAAAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <20010709121057.0CFDD303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

Jacob's reply is also correct, in a way, but it doesn't address the exact 
problem, which is:

> !#/usr/local/bin/python

You have ! and # reversed. Try #!/usr/local/bin/python and everything should 
be fine.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From kp87@lycos.com  Mon Jul  9 13:29:32 2001
From: kp87@lycos.com (parks  kevin)
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 21:29:32 +0900
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] executing scripts on OS X
Message-ID: <BGMICMLKMEIHGCAA@mailcity.com>

oh, sorry i mistyped in the e-mail message (should have copied). The scripts itself is #! correct. but still no go.


On Mon, 09 Jul 2001 14:10:56  
 Jack Jansen wrote:
>Jacob's reply is also correct, in a way, but it doesn't address the exact 
>problem, which is:
>
>> !#/usr/local/bin/python
>
>You have ! and # reversed. Try #!/usr/local/bin/python and everything should 
>be fine.
>--



Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/


From richard@richardgordon.net  Mon Jul  9 14:40:32 2001
From: richard@richardgordon.net (Richard Gordon)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:40:32 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] executing scripts on OS X
In-Reply-To: <BGMICMLKMEIHGCAA@mailcity.com>
References: <BGMICMLKMEIHGCAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <v04205500b76f63c97207@[192.168.0.2]>

At 9:29 PM +0900 7/9/01, parks  kevin wrote:
>oh, sorry i mistyped in the e-mail message (should have copied). The 
>scripts itself is #! correct. but still no go.

Are you sure that python is installed in /usr/local/bin ? I don't 
know too much about OS X, but I would assume that if you do

whereis python

from the command line, you can confirm this. Alternatively, using

#!/usr/bin/env python

in your script usually works.


Richard Gordon
--------------------
Gordon Design
Web Design/Database Development
http://www.richardgordon.net



From kp87@lycos.com  Mon Jul  9 17:27:49 2001
From: kp87@lycos.com (parks  kevin)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 01:27:49 +0900
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] setting tcsh path in OS X.bloat
Message-ID: <FKAJIHMCCNDKAAAA@mailcity.com>

I am sorry if this is too off topic, if so i apologize. I find the tcsh configuration on Mac OS X to be very very confusing. First there are the sort of global system-wide defaults for the tcsh.  These would be in /etc. 
As in /etc/csh.cshrc
     /etc/csh.csh.login
     /etc/csh.logout

In the old days these might actually be expected to contain data or instructions. That wasn't convoluted enough so now these files reference something else:

[localhost:/etc] kevin% more csh*
::::::::::::::
csh.cshrc
::::::::::::::
source /usr/share/init/tcsh/rc
::::::::::::::
csh.login
::::::::::::::
source /usr/share/init/tcsh/login
::::::::::::::
csh.logout
::::::::::::::
source /usr/share/init/tcsh/logout

but if you go there you are greeted by more than login, logout and rc

 8 -r--r--r--   1 root  wheel   952 Feb 17 12:48 README
 8 -r--r--r--   1 root  wheel   892 Feb 17 12:48 aliases
24 -r--r--r--   1 root  wheel  9366 Feb 17 12:48 completions
 8 -r--r--r--   1 root  wheel   433 Feb 17 12:48 environment
 8 -r--r--r--   1 root  wheel   695 Feb 17 12:48 login
 8 -r--r--r--   1 root  wheel   395 Feb 17 12:48 logout
 8 -r--r--r--   1 root  wheel  1938 Feb 17 12:48 rc
 8 -r--r--r--   1 root  wheel  2400 Feb 17 12:48 tcsh.defaults

ok, it is easy enough to know what these are for. We've finally actually gotten to the defaults for the tcsh files. And we have a really shitty README to boot, one that is as terse as a man page (read: not for human beans) and unlike most unix man pages, totally useless and incomprehenable (UNIX man pages are like 97% useless). Reading the really unreadble README file we learn that we are supposed to customize our tcsh by creating a ~/Library/init/tcsh dir and the following files:

	aliases.mine		- shell aliases
	completions.mine	- completions
	environment.mine	- environment
	rc.mine			- run commands
	path			- command search path

We learn almost nothing else. The fool who wrote the README expects us to read the usr/share/init/tcsh/ and figure it out. Since i am also a fool and a technically challeged one at that i am at a loss as to how to _*ADD*_ to my path and not just clobber it. Additionally putting junk in path does nothing. Infact a look at /usr/share/init/tcsh/login reveals:

##
# Read user's login
##
if (-r "${tcsh_initdir}/login.mine") then
  source "${tcsh_initdir}/login.mine"
endif

Which leads me to believe that the ~/Library/init/tcsh/path file should be called ~/Library/init/tcsh//login.mine. Low and behold, this doesn't work either.

I want (like freaking crazy) to be able execute scripts in various dirs without having to type the whole path. I want to say:

kevin% hello.py

and not

kevin% ~/freakinpath/reallylongpath/killmepleasepath/godimissmyNeXT/hello.py

But to do this i need to edit (or really append or extend) my path, how on god's green earth do you do this in OS X.bloat?

Thanks

"i miss windowshading like crazy-ily yours"

-kevin--







Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/


From andy@reportlab.com  Mon Jul  9 17:55:10 2001
From: andy@reportlab.com (Andy Robinson)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:55:10 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Confused Mac Newbie
Message-ID: <PGECLPOBGNBNKHNAGIJHIEFECLAA.andy@reportlab.com>

Just ported a customer application to the
Mac, a platform about which I know next to
nothing.  This is a clean installation
of Python 2.1 on Mac OS 9.1.  The command
line apps work fine, but when I try to do
anything with Tkinter I get this:

> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "S9916:Applications:Python
2.1:Pmw:Pmw_0_8_5:demos:AboutDialog.py",
> line 7, in ?
>     import Tkinter
>   File "s9916:applications:python 2.1:lib:lib-tk:Tkinter.py", line
35, in
> ?
>     import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be
configured for
> Tk
> ImportError: Tkinter not supported under Carbon (yet).
>

We aren't running OS X!  Does anyone else have this problem?
Is there a known problem with Tkinter on Python 2.1.

Apologies if this is an FAQ - I just joined the SIG.


Andy Robinson
CEO and Chief Architect, ReportLab Inc.



From chrishbarker@home.net  Mon Jul  9 18:18:20 2001
From: chrishbarker@home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:18:20 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] setting tcsh path in OS X.bloat
References: <FKAJIHMCCNDKAAAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <3B49E75C.828278C9@home.net>

parks kevin wrote:
> I am sorry if this is too off topic, if so i apologize.

I'll keep it going anyway... someone yell if you want us to stop. I've
only played a littel with OS X, but as a long time Linux user I may be
able to help out some here.

>I find the tcsh configuration on Mac OS X to be very very confusing.

YOW! what a nighmare, but it looks to me like the real problem is
documentation, not the wet-up, it looks like it's actually a pretty
nifty set up, as long as you know where you need to go to change things.

> how to _*ADD*_ to my path and not just clobber it.

usually this is done with a line like:

set PATH=$PATH:/new/dir/here

or 

set PATH=/new/dir/here:$PATH


the $PATH gives you the existing path, and you can then just add on.

> I want (like freaking crazy) to be able execute scripts in various dirs without having to type the whole path. I want to say:
> 
> kevin% hello.py
> 
> and not
> 
> kevin% ~/freakinpath/reallylongpath/killmepleasepath/godimissmyNeXT/hello.py
> 
> But to do this i need to edit (or really append or extend) my path, how on god's green earth do you do this in OS X.bloat?

You should be careful about this anyway. I don't know if you are an old
DOS/Windows user, but the practice of putting executables anywhere you
want, and then adding the dir to the PATH results in a mess, and is not
the Unix way. In Unix, there are a small set of places that stuff you
want to run are put. On lInux, anyway, these are:

\bin   : core system programs
\sbin  : system adminstation programs, usually not on a normal users
PATH
\usr\bin : most programs installed by the native system installer
\usr\local\bin: programs installed by the user

There may be a few others, like /usr/X11R6/bin for X-windows stuff. I
don't know what the OS X standards are, but it is a really good idea to
stick to them, whatever they are. Any program you write yourself (or
just install yourself) should go into /usr/local/bin. You don't need to
put the whole program there. If it is a liitle program or simple script,
I usually just put it there. If it is a more comlicated set-up, you can
put the rest of it in its own directory: /usr/local/myprogram, and then
put a symbolic link into /usr/local/bin. The other option is to put the
various parts of your program into the classic places: /usr/local/lib,
/usr/local/share, etc. (Python is put into /usr/local/lib/python2.1 on
my system). Personally, I think that's ugly: why should Python be in
lib? The Python headers go into /usr/local/include, which makes some
sense at least.

On the old Mac, there is no path, as there is no command line. There is
no standard place for anything outside the system folder, so people end
up putting aliases to programs on their desktop (or in the launcher) so
that you don't have to go hunt all over the sytem to find a program and
start it. This is analogous to putting a symbolic link in
/usr/local/bin.

Some people do want their current working directory to be in the PATH
(as that is how this thread started) this was always the case on DOS,
but is not with Unix. You can add it to your path:

set PATH = ./:$PATH

This is considered dangerous in the Unix community in general. I'm not
sure why, but I stick with the standard just type the ./ when I want to
run a script in my current directory.

> "i miss windowshading like crazy-ily yours"

Does OS X not windowshade? This just confirms my feeling that OS X is
just a poor imitation of Linux with KDE, and some extra eye candy.


Good luck, and welcome to Unix!

-Chris

-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker@home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From gandreas@delver.com  Mon Jul  9 18:09:26 2001
From: gandreas@delver.com (Glenn Andreas)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:09:26 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] setting tcsh path in OS X.bloat
In-Reply-To: <3B49E75C.828278C9@home.net>
References: <FKAJIHMCCNDKAAAA@mailcity.com> <3B49E75C.828278C9@home.net>
Message-ID: <v04210107b76f94ba50a4@[10.0.0.65]>

>Some people do want their current working directory to be in the PATH
>(as that is how this thread started) this was always the case on DOS,
>but is not with Unix. You can add it to your path:
>
>set PATH = ./:$PATH
>
>This is considered dangerous in the Unix community in general. I'm not
>sure why, but I stick with the standard just type the ./ when I want to
>run a script in my current directory.

This is because if you download anything from the net, it would be 
trivial for somebody to add a scripted called "ls" or "cd" into that 
archive, then you'd do something simple like:

	tar -xvf evilfile.tar
	cd evildir
	ls

and suddenly be executing the "ls" script that came from the evil 
archive which, besides performing a "real" ls to show you what files 
(minus their own scripts) it could then modify all of your files, 
take over your computer, send your credit card information to 
Elbonia, cause flooding in your basement, and make your cat/dog's 
hair fall out.

Glenn Andreas                      gandreas@delver.com
Author of Macintosh games: Theldrow 2.3, Blobbo 1.0.2, Cythera 1.0.2
Be good, and you will be lonesome


From owen@astro.washington.edu  Mon Jul  9 18:09:55 2001
From: owen@astro.washington.edu (Russell E Owen)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:09:55 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Confused Mac Newbie
In-Reply-To: <PGECLPOBGNBNKHNAGIJHIEFECLAA.andy@reportlab.com>
References: <PGECLPOBGNBNKHNAGIJHIEFECLAA.andy@reportlab.com>
Message-ID: <p05100302b76f9464f562@[128.95.99.44]>

For MacOS 9, you have a choice of running MacPython using Carbon or 
Classic. Only Classic supports Tkinter. To run using Classic 
double-click the application "ConfigurePythonClassic".

If you've not found the release notes, I suggest a careful read -- 
see "Relnotes" in the "Relnotes" folder.

Best of luck with the Mac port. Tkinter has some quirks under the Mac 
(as noted in the release notes). In particular:
- run your app by dragging it onto PythonInterpreter (do NOT use 
Python IDE for Tkinter applications)
- file events are broken
- your application may not yield many CPU cycles to background apps
- custom Menus may be flaky (I've never gotten them to work reliably)

Regards,

-- Russell

>...> ImportError: Tkinter not supported under Carbon (yet).
>
>We aren't running OS X!  Does anyone else have this problem?
>Is there a known problem with Tkinter on Python 2.1...


From doug@sonosphere.com  Mon Jul  9 18:42:21 2001
From: doug@sonosphere.com (Doug Wyatt)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:42:21 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] executing scripts on OS X
In-Reply-To: <p05001902b76f40f1db0b@[62.253.148.135]>
Message-ID: <C00D38DA-7491-11D5-924B-00039301A6E6@wyatdo.apple.com>

I've found that a common gotcha is that to run the Unix-style Python 
from the OS X terminal, the script must be saved with Unix line endings 
(i.e. \n not \r).

Doug


On Monday, July 9, 2001, at 04:11 AM, Jacob Kaplan-Moss wrote:

> At 7:50 PM +0900 7/9/01, parks  kevin wrote:
> [snip]
>> Now when i did:
>>
>> % python hello.py
>>
>> everything was dandy.
>>
>> however i did the CHMOD bit to make the file executable and the tried 
>> sh-banging it
>>
>> % hello.py
>>
>> nothing. just hello.py: Command not found.
>
>
> Try:
>
> % ./hello.py
>
> Why?
>
> Under a *nix, you've got to give a full path for any command.  So if 
> the file "hello.py" is in a directory that you have in your PATH (i.e. 
> /usr/bin or something) it will work just fine, but since (I'm assuming) 
> hello.py is not in your PATH, you need to tell the shell where that 
> file is.
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> -j
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
>

--
Doug Wyatt
work:  dwyatt@apple.com
personal:  doug@sonosphere.com   http://www.sonosphere.com

"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education."
	-- Albert Einstein


From jwblist@olympus.net  Mon Jul  9 19:11:56 2001
From: jwblist@olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:11:56 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] executing scripts on OS X
In-Reply-To: <NAAIKOOMDGBJAAAA@mailcity.com>
References: <NAAIKOOMDGBJAAAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <p05101000b76fa1964685@[207.149.192.229]>

At 19:50 +0900 7/9/2001, parks  kevin wrote:
>I am trying to get python going on my OS X partition. I was able to make a
>text file called hello.py and put in it the revolutionary and complex bit
>of code
>
>!#/usr/local/bin/python
>print "hello, fool!"
>
>
>Now when i did:
>
>% python hello.py
>
>everything was dandy.
>
>however i did the CHMOD bit to make the file executable and the tried
>sh-banging it
>
>% hello.py
>
>nothing. just hello.py: Command not found.
>i also tried :
>
>!#/usr/bin/python
>!#/usr/bin/env python

Two things:
1.  I hope you mean #! not !#.  And I think you do, because the latter
gives a traceback when I use
python hello.py

2.  On my machine, python as a command is a link:
lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  25 Jun 22 18:08 /usr/bin/python ->
/usr/local/bin/python.exe

which python
will give you a starting point.

This is a "straight" install of the regular Python distribution, not MacPython.

  --John

-- 
John Baxter   jwblist@olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA


From kp87@lycos.com  Mon Jul  9 19:50:29 2001
From: kp87@lycos.com (parks  kevin)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 03:50:29 +0900
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: executing scripts on OS X
Message-ID: <AIMDNBLFAEFACAAA@mailcity.com>

I created a dir called ~/scripts. I stuck my little hello.py file:


#!/usr/bin/env python
print "hello, fool!"


Now the python binary is in my path already.

i added the scripts folder to my path (by adding my ~/Library/init/tcsh/path file and putting in that file:

setenv PATH "$PATH ~/scripts:~/apps"

if i type in my prompt setenv, it dumps my env settings and i can see /usr/local/bin
and all the usual paths, plus th paths i have added: ~/scripts:~/apps. I stuck a binary in there just as a sanity check so my path is 100% good to go.

I go to my prompt and type

% cd ~/scripts
% hello.py


and guess what?! Nothing still command not found. If i type:

% ~/scripts/hello.py

It is ok.

So, what gives? I thought that there was no more set PYTHONPATH? So no matter what you do you must always give the full path to execute a script?

-kp--

At least i figured out how to ammend my path. Thanks to the help of MR. Barker


though i would still like to know why the full path is required despite the setenv path additions to the startups.




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From kp87@lycos.com  Mon Jul  9 20:00:51 2001
From: kp87@lycos.com (parks  kevin)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:00:51 +0900
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: executing scripts on OS X
Message-ID: <AHDLIJKABNFACAAA@mailcity.com>

***
>  Try:
>  
>  % ./hello.py
>  
>  Why?
>  
>  Under a *nix, you've got to give a full path for any 
>  command.  So if 
>  the file "hello.py" is in a directory that you have in 
>  your PATH 
>  (i.e. /usr/bin or something) it will work just fine, 
>  but since (I'm 
>  assuming) hello.py is not in your PATH, you need to 
>  tell the shell 
>  where that file is.


also:

>  
>  Jacob's reply is also correct (refering to above)
***

the file hello.py is in a directory that is in my path and so is
python and my sh-bang is correct and CHMOD is groovy.

BUT... seems that you still have to give the full path.
God only knows why. 


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From tony@metanet.com  Mon Jul  9 20:10:20 2001
From: tony@metanet.com (Tony Lownds)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:10:20 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: executing scripts on OS X
In-Reply-To: <AHDLIJKABNFACAAA@mailcity.com>
References: <AHDLIJKABNFACAAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <a0501040db76fb0bad209@[204.162.121.120]>

>
>the file hello.py is in a directory that is in my path and so is
>python and my sh-bang is correct and CHMOD is groovy.
>
>BUT... seems that you still have to give the full path.
>God only knows why.


In tcsh you must run "rehash" after changing the PATH for it to take 
effect. Perhaps that is why.

-Tony



From richard@richardgordon.net  Mon Jul  9 20:28:10 2001
From: richard@richardgordon.net (Richard Gordon)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:28:10 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: executing scripts on OS X
In-Reply-To: <a0501040db76fb0bad209@[204.162.121.120]>
References: <AHDLIJKABNFACAAA@mailcity.com>
 <a0501040db76fb0bad209@[204.162.121.120]>
Message-ID: <v04205501b76fb57ca41f@[192.168.0.2]>

At 12:10 PM -0700 7/9/01, Tony Lownds wrote:
>In tcsh you must run "rehash" after changing the PATH for it to take 
>effect. Perhaps that is why.

You might also need to chmod the directory as well as the script 
file. Otherwise, I don't know why it isn't working- this doesn't seem 
to be a problem with mkLinux.


Richard Gordon
--------------------
Gordon Design
Web Design/Database Development
http://www.richardgordon.net



From andy@reportlab.com  Mon Jul  9 20:57:29 2001
From: andy@reportlab.com (Andy Robinson)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:57:29 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Confused Mac Newbie
In-Reply-To: <p05100302b76f9464f562@[128.95.99.44]>
Message-ID: <NDBBLMJCKKLCPKJBLPPCMEGLCBAA.andy@reportlab.com>

> For MacOS 9, you have a choice of running MacPython using Carbon or 
> Classic. Only Classic supports Tkinter. To run using Classic 
> double-click the application "ConfigurePythonClassic".

Thanks.
I guess that explains it!  Until now I (and everyone
at that customer site) thought Carbon started
with OS X

Andy



From kp87@lycos.com  Mon Jul  9 21:54:14 2001
From: kp87@lycos.com (parks  kevin)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:54:14 +0900
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: executing scripts on OS X
Message-ID: <CHKMKCKMAAMACAAA@mailcity.com>

Re: executing scripts on OS X

funny thing is that if you su root and do it the script acts as expected. Just type hello.py at the prompt without the path and the script executes just like a real operating system for big boys and girls. Is this Apple's way of saying unless it is applescript don't script on your macintosh? NeXT was never this restrictive you could even see all your invisible files in the browser (it wasn't the finder then, a finder is something that finds things, like grep or sherlock).

[localhost:~] kevin% su root
[localhost:/Users/kevin] root# cd bin
[localhost:/Users/kevin/bin] root# ls
hello.py
[localhost:/Users/kevin/bin] root# hello.py
hello fool
yo mama

So what does this mean? Still user error? 

Thanks for indulging me my queries! I promise to lurk again soon. This is a great list thanks to everyone! If there are actually any people on this list who are running OS X (seems to be more linux than OS X here these days!) and can figure out what is up, it would be good to know.

-kevin parks
seoul, korea

---

kp87@lycos.com





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From richard@richardgordon.net  Mon Jul  9 23:35:49 2001
From: richard@richardgordon.net (Richard Gordon)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 18:35:49 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: executing scripts on OS X
In-Reply-To: <CHKMKCKMAAMACAAA@mailcity.com>
References: <CHKMKCKMAAMACAAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <v04205502b76fe165f52c@[192.168.0.2]>

At 5:54 AM +0900 7/10/01, parks  kevin wrote:
>funny thing is that if you su root and do it the script acts as expected.

Sounds like a permissions issue. How are you doing the chmod? I generally use

chmod 0755 scriptname.py


Richard Gordon
--------------------
Gordon Design
Web Design/Database Development
http://www.richardgordon.net



From doug@sonosphere.com  Tue Jul 10 00:50:08 2001
From: doug@sonosphere.com (Doug Wyatt)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:50:08 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: executing scripts on OS X
In-Reply-To: <CHKMKCKMAAMACAAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <20C93BA2-74C5-11D5-9A8E-00039301A6E6@wyatdo.apple.com>

--Apple-Mail-4--764460665
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset=us-ascii

On Monday, July 9, 2001, at 01:54 PM, parks kevin wrote:
> Re: executing scripts on OS X
>
> funny thing is that if you su root and do it the script acts as 
> expected. Just type hello.py at the prompt without the path and the 
> script executes just like a real operating system for big boys and 
> girls. Is this Apple's way of saying unless it is applescript don't 
> script on your macintosh?

Still sounds like a path/rehash problem ...

> NeXT was never this restrictive you could even see all your invisible 
> files in the browser (it wasn't the finder then, a finder is something 
> that finds things, like grep or sherlock).

There is a way (please don't ask me, I don't know what it is) to see the 
Unixy files/directories in the Finder.

> Thanks for indulging me my queries! I promise to lurk again soon. This 
> is a great list thanks to everyone! If there are actually any people on 
> this list who are running OS X (seems to be more linux than OS X here 
> these days!) and can figure out what is up, it would be good to know.

I live on X and run Python scripts on the command line frequently.

Doug

--
Doug Wyatt
work:  dwyatt@apple.com
personal:  doug@sonosphere.com   http://www.sonosphere.com

"It's kind of fun to do the impossible."
	-- Walt Disney

--Apple-Mail-4--764460665
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/enriched;
	charset=us-ascii

On Monday, July 9, 2001, at 01:54 PM, parks kevin wrote:

<excerpt>Re: executing scripts on OS X


funny thing is that if you su root and do it the script acts as
expected. Just type hello.py at the prompt without the path and the
script executes just like a real operating system for big boys and
girls. Is this Apple's way of saying unless it is applescript don't
script on your macintosh? 

</excerpt>

Still sounds like a path/rehash problem ...


<excerpt>NeXT was never this restrictive you could even see all your
invisible files in the browser (it wasn't the finder then, a finder is
something that finds things, like grep or sherlock).

</excerpt>

There is a way (please don't ask me, I don't know what it is) to see
the Unixy files/directories in the Finder.


<excerpt>Thanks for indulging me my queries! I promise to lurk again
soon. This is a great list thanks to everyone! If there are actually
any people on this list who are running OS X (seems to be more linux
than OS X here these days!) and can figure out what is up, it would be
good to know.

</excerpt>

I live on X and run Python scripts on the command line frequently.


Doug

<color><param>0000,0000,DEB7</param>

</color>--

Doug Wyatt

work:  dwyatt@apple.com

personal:  doug@sonosphere.com   http://www.sonosphere.com


"It's kind of fun to do the impossible."

	-- Walt Disney


--Apple-Mail-4--764460665--


From mday@mac.com  Tue Jul 10 00:59:44 2001
From: mday@mac.com (Mark Day)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:59:44 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Filename encodings on the Mac
In-Reply-To: <20010708205658.EEADADA741@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <7824DF26-74C6-11D5-A3F6-00039303AF92@daylight.apple.com.apple.com>

On Sunday, July 8, 2001, at 01:56 PM, Jack Jansen wrote:

> But there's still a problem with the multibyte system fonts, I think.
> If MacPython knows there's no Python unicode codec for the current
> encoding it pretends that 8bit characters are MacRoman. So, passing a
> correct unicode Japanese filename to open() will cause it to fail if
> there are non-ascii characters in there: the Python unicode->macroman
> converter will complain that the characters are not available in the
> macroman set. Returning MacRoman is my guess, the alternative is
> returning "ascii", which will only allow 7bit characters. If people
> using multibyte systems (or single-byte systems for an encoding for
> which no Python unicode codec yet exists) feel that returning ascii
> would be a better idea: let me know. Or better, let's discuss this on
> the mailing list.

7-bit ASCII is a subset of all of the Mac encodings.  And ASCII is 
represented the same way in all Mac encodings (as the single byte values 
0-127).  So, if you can convert the Unicode to 7-bit ASCII, you can pass 
that ASCII into the open() call regardless of the current default 
encoding or font.

Using Unicode->MacRoman when the current encoding isn't MacRoman can 
lead to gibberish in the name, or errors from open().  Byte values 
128-255 mean different things in different Mac encodings.  In MacRoman, 
they are individual non-ASCII characters.  In other encodings, they may 
be invalid (the other encodings don't always use all possible byte 
values), they may be different characters than the MacRoman characters 
with the same byte value, or they may be a part of a two-byte character.

If you don't have a codec for the current encoding, and the Unicode 
won't convert to 7-bit ASCII, then you should probably raise an error 
(rather than generate the wrong filename).

> It must be possible to create a multibyte MacJapanese <-> Unicode
> codec with the Python unicode infrastructure: after all there's a
> utf-8 codec too, and that's also a multibyte encoding. But I'm
> completely out of my water here. If someone wants to create one and
> contribute it I'll gladly try and have it incorporated in the standard
> distribution, and I can put people into contact with the Python
> unicode gurus, but that's about as much as I can promise.

Yeah, it should be possible.  Note that a UTF-8 <-> UTF-16 conversion 
can be a very simple algorithmic conversion that doesn't require you to 
actually understand the characters being converted.  And if I remember 
correctly, anything that can be represented in UTF-16 can be represented 
in UTF-8, and vice versa.

Unfortunately, I only know enough about Unicode to be dangerous (and to 
call the Mac OS Unicode Converter from inside the File Manager).  I 
could probably supply some code snippets to show one way to call the 
Unicode Converter.  And I could probably put people in contact with the 
Apple folks who do the Unicode Converter and Text Encoding Converter 
(maybe even facilitate getting some tables for the conversions).  But I 
haven't looked into the Python Unicode stuff at all.

-Mark


From Damon Butler <dbutler@impressions.com>  Tue Jul 10 19:05:12 2001
From: Damon Butler <dbutler@impressions.com> (Damon Butler)
Date: 10 Jul 01 13:05:12 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] RE: SRE errors with IDE, addendum
Message-ID: <3B3BEEB8000015EA@impmail.impinet.com> (added by impmail.impinet.com)

Hi, Just,

About a week ago you helped solve a problem with the MacPy IDE that =
involved my use of pre vs. the expected use of sre. A quick refresher...

<quote>

> TypeError: pcre_compile() argument 1 must be string without null bytes, =
not
> string

Ah, this seems due to the conversion from regex to re. Apparently, sre =
allows
null bytes in pattern strings, but pre doesnt :-(. As a workaround, you =
could
patch PyFontify:

import re

becomes:

import sre
re =3D sre

</quote>

The fix worked, in that the IDE would run (I used Python 2.0 syntax, =
however: "import sre as re"). But I did run across other errors related to =
same when accessing particular features of the IDE, most prominently the =
Module Browser.

Thought you might like to know that, for anyone else who wishes to use pre =
as a matter of course over the broken sre, the following modules also =
ought to be patched in a similar fashion:

- PyBrowser.py
- PyDocSearch.py
- PyEdit.py

WSocket.py also has a reference to "re" (which on my system will call up =
pre), but that doesn't appear to cause any problems.

Damon Butler
------------
Impressions Book and Journal Services, Inc.
(608)244-6218
dbutler@impressions.com



From Benjamin.Schollnick@usa.xerox.com  Tue Jul 10 20:12:09 2001
From: Benjamin.Schollnick@usa.xerox.com (Schollnick, Benjamin)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:12:09 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Idle?  On the mac?
Message-ID: <E2D1934575D1D411973D00508BB02F173022BF@usa0129ms1.ess.mc.xerox.com>

Has anyone used IDLE on the macintosh?

I've been messing with it today under Win NT, and been pleasantly
suprised...

On the Mac (Python 2.0, OS 9.1), I'm getting a ConfigParser.NoOptionError
warning, presumably it's attempting to load a INI file (or the such), and
failing...

Is Idle being supported on the Mac?

		- Benjamin


From just@letterror.com  Tue Jul 10 20:19:13 2001
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:19:13 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] RE: SRE errors with IDE, addendum
In-Reply-To: <3B3BEEB8000015EA@impmail.impinet.com> (added by impmail.impinet.com)
Message-ID: <20010710211923-r01010700-4611e5ca-0910-010c@213.84.27.177>

--1591280-2295726080-3203788763=:9001
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Damon Butler wrote:

> The fix worked, in that the IDE would run (I used Python 2.0 syntax, however: 
> "import sre as re"). But I did run across other errors related to same when 
> accessing particular features of the IDE, most prominently the Module Browser.
> 
> Thought you might like to know that, for anyone else who wishes to use pre as 
> a matter of course over the broken sre, the following modules also ought to be 
> patched in a similar fashion:
> 
> - PyBrowser.py
> - PyDocSearch.py
> - PyEdit.py
> 
> WSocket.py also has a reference to "re" (which on my system will call up pre), 
> but that doesn't appear to cause any problems.

PyEdit's use of regexes was broken in more than one way: I've been committing
some changes to CVS, and will commit more later. The other problems can be fixed
by changing "" to raw r"" strings. I'll commit those also.

I've appended a PyFontify.py (which I'll also commit to CVS shortly) which works
both with pre and sre, yet doesn't import either: it simply uses re again.

Just
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--1591280-2295726080-3203788763=:9001--


From kp87@lycos.com  Tue Jul 10 20:48:17 2001
From: kp87@lycos.com (kevin parks)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 04:48:17 +0900
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] setting search path on OS 9 behind $(PYTHON)
Message-ID: <DKKCHPDOEFNPAAAA@mailcity.com>

Back on OS 9 for a stretch... Heres a question. I usually for one reason or another have to reinstall my system. I have had the ultimate nightmare of trashing my Python folder and reinstalling only to realize that i had something in the scripts folder that i should have copied, before wiping the disk. Therefore i dislike ever putting (or having to put) and of my scripts in my Python folder. IDE be damned. However i have no idea how to set the path in the EditPythonPrefs doohickey to anything other than $(PYTHON):something:foobar

lets say i have three disks
sys
apps
stuff

and i want to make a folder called scripts on another disk, or even if i put my scripts on sys with my python distribution, but put it not in the Python 2.1 folder but a folder "behind" (as in not down the Python 2.1 folder's path) how do i specify that in the EditPythonPrefs thingy? i tried:

:sys:scripts
and also:

::sys:scripts

Nothing works. I really really really really want to get my scripts someplace safe so that when i upgrade to Python 2.2 or whathave you i don't erase my code.

The EditPythonPrefs has no example of how to do this all the paths start from the Python folder like so:

$(PYTHON)
$(PYTHON):Mac:PlugIns
$(PYTHON):Mac:Lib
$(PYTHON):Mac:Lib:lib-toolbox
$(PYTHON):Mac:Lib:lib-scriptpackages
$(PYTHON):Lib
$(PYTHON):Extensions:img:Mac
$(PYTHON):Extensions:img:Lib
$(PYTHON):Extensions:Imaging:PIL
$(PYTHON):Lib:lib-tk





Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/


From owen@astro.washington.edu  Tue Jul 10 21:09:29 2001
From: owen@astro.washington.edu (Russell E Owen)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:09:29 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] setting search path on OS 9 behind $(PYTHON)
In-Reply-To: <DKKCHPDOEFNPAAAA@mailcity.com>
References: <DKKCHPDOEFNPAAAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <p05100304b7711138241d@[128.95.99.44]>

>lets say i have three disks
>sys
>apps
>stuff
>
>and i want to make a folder called scripts on another disk, or even 
>if i put my scripts on sys with my python distribution, but put it 
>not in the Python 2.1 folder but a folder "behind" (as in not down 
>the Python 2.1 folder's path) how do i specify that in the 
>EditPythonPrefs thingy?...


I believe the correct notation for absolute paths on the Mac is to 
start with the disk name, hence try:
sys:scripts

-- Russell


From jack@oratrix.nl  Tue Jul 10 21:15:51 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 22:15:51 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] setting search path on OS 9 behind $(PYTHON)
In-Reply-To: Message by "kevin parks" <kp87@lycos.com> ,
 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 04:48:17 +0900 , <DKKCHPDOEFNPAAAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <20010710201557.2CB8B23FC3@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, "kevin parks" <kp87@lycos.com> said:
> Back on OS 9 for a stretch... Heres a question. I usually for one reason or a
> nother have to reinstall my system. I have had the ultimate nightmare of tras
> hing my Python folder and reinstalling only to realize that i had something i
> n the scripts folder that i should have copied, before wiping the disk. There
> fore i dislike ever putting (or having to put) and of my scripts in my Python
>  folder. IDE be damned. However i have no idea how to set the path in the Edi
> tPythonPrefs doohickey to anything other than $(PYTHON):something:foobar

Simple enough: just type the full pathname and don't start with
$(PYTHON). The $(PYTHON) bit is replaced by the pathname of the Python
home folder early during startup.

So you could simply type "Macintosh HD:My Python Scripts:" into the
text field to have that folder added to your sys.path.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From lmeyn@mail.arc.nasa.gov  Tue Jul 10 21:56:00 2001
From: lmeyn@mail.arc.nasa.gov (Larry Meyn)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:56:00 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] setting search path on OS 9 behind $(PYTHON)
In-Reply-To: <DKKCHPDOEFNPAAAA@mailcity.com>
References: <DKKCHPDOEFNPAAAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b7711ba89f9d@[128.102.170.15]>

I had the same desire to protect files while allowing easy Python upgrades.  I used to use aliased folders, but they broke after Python 1.5.2.  Now I use double colons as shown in the the following lines to specify folders in the parent folder containing Python:

$(PYTHON)::packages
$(PYTHON)::PythonProjects


At 4:48 AM +0900 7/11/01, kevin parks wrote:
>Back on OS 9 for a stretch... Heres a question. I usually for one reason or another have to reinstall my system. I have had the ultimate nightmare of trashing my Python folder and reinstalling only to realize that i had something in the scripts folder that i should have copied, before wiping the disk. Therefore i dislike ever putting (or having to put) and of my scripts in my Python folder. IDE be damned. However i have no idea how to set the path in the EditPythonPrefs doohickey to anything other than $(PYTHON):something:foobar
>
>lets say i have three disks
>sys
>apps
>stuff
>
>and i want to make a folder called scripts on another disk, or even if i put my scripts on sys with my python distribution, but put it not in the Python 2.1 folder but a folder "behind" (as in not down the Python 2.1 folder's path) how do i specify that in the EditPythonPrefs thingy? i tried:
>
>:sys:scripts
>and also:
>
>::sys:scripts
>
>Nothing works. I really really really really want to get my scripts someplace safe so that when i upgrade to Python 2.2 or whathave you i don't erase my code.
>
>The EditPythonPrefs has no example of how to do this all the paths start from the Python folder like so:
>
>$(PYTHON)
>$(PYTHON):Mac:PlugIns
>$(PYTHON):Mac:Lib
>$(PYTHON):Mac:Lib:lib-toolbox
>$(PYTHON):Mac:Lib:lib-scriptpackages
>$(PYTHON):Lib
>$(PYTHON):Extensions:img:Mac
>$(PYTHON):Extensions:img:Lib
>$(PYTHON):Extensions:Imaging:PIL
>$(PYTHON):Lib:lib-tk
>
>
>
>
>
>Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
>http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/
>
>_______________________________________________
>Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Larry Meyn
Aerospace Operations Modeling Office

M/S 210-10                         Phone:  (650) 604-5038
NASA Ames Research Center          FAX:    (650) 604-0222
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000       email:  lmeyn@mail.arc.nasa.gov
------------------------------------------------------------------


From jschmitt@vmlabs.com  Wed Jul 11 05:31:32 2001
From: jschmitt@vmlabs.com (John Schmitt)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:31:32 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] FW: New project: anygui
Message-ID: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F45AD@eden.vmlabs.com>

Any Mac people participating here?

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Browse/Threaded/anygui-devel

-----Original Message-----
From: Magnus Lie Hetland [mailto:mlh@idi.ntnu.no]
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 2:27 PM
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: New project: anygui



Hi!

This is an attempt to revive the efforts of making a
"standard" Python GUI. I realise that standardising
one as preferable to others might not be desirable,
and that is not the purpose of this project. The
purpose is to build a pure Python package called
anygui which will function in a manner similar to
anydbm in that it will look for existing backends,
and use what is available.

A simple API must be decided on which will be compatible
with all back-end candidates, somewhat in the spirit of
Sping and Piddle. Therefore, this will not be mean
as a replacement for these back-ends, merely a simple
front-end.

I suggest using Greg Ewing's Python GUI API as a
starting-point:
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python_gui/

For a first release, a subset may be usable.

Backends that (at least) should be supported:

 - Tkinter
 - wxPython
 - Java (AWT and/or Swing)

... and hopefully many others. (Those of you out there
who have a package you love may want to step up and make
it compatible with anygui... :) Greg is himself working
on an X-windows implementation of the API.

The project is available at:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/anygui

A mailing-list called anygui-devel has been set up and
should be activated within a matter of hours. All
developers and other interested individuals are welcome.
The GUI SIG is no more - but it is my opinion that Python
needs a standard GUI package, even if it is a simple
one (perhaps _especially_ if it is a simple one).

--

  Magnus Lie Hetland         http://www.hetland.org

 "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in
  it, doesn't go away."           -- Philip K. Dick



-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From wwwjessie@21cn.com  Thu Jul 12 11:01:51 2001
From: wwwjessie@21cn.com (wwwjessie@21cn.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:01:51 +0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] =?gb2312?B?xvPStcnPzfijrNK7sr21vc67KFlvdXIgb25saW5lIGNvbXBhbnkp?=
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------=_NextPart_000_34F17_01C10AFC.BA161410--


From Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl  Thu Jul 12 17:39:21 2001
From: Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl (Yair Benita)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:39:21 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Compiling mxTextTools for the MAC
Message-ID: <B7739F59.E29%Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl>

I am trying to install Biopython on the Mac.
mxTextTools is essential for Biopython and thus I am trying to compile it.
It has a setup.py file and when trying to build the extensions with
distutils I get:
distutils.errors.DistutilsPlatformError: Can only make SHARED_LIBRARY or
SHARED_OBJECT targets on the Mac
I guess that means you have to compile manually but I have no clue how to
build the project in CodeWarrior and what target to set. I do have access to
the *.c and *.h files needed.
Did anyone compiled mxTextTools before?
Any idea how to import the c extension project into codewarrior?
Yair



From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Jul 12 23:06:41 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 00:06:41 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Compiling mxTextTools for the MAC
In-Reply-To: Message by Yair Benita <Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl> ,
 Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:39:21 +0200 , <B7739F59.E29%Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <20010712220646.B35D8162E06@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Yair Benita <Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl> said:
> I am trying to install Biopython on the Mac.
> mxTextTools is essential for Biopython and thus I am trying to compile it.
> It has a setup.py file and when trying to build the extensions with
> distutils I get:
> distutils.errors.DistutilsPlatformError: Can only make SHARED_LIBRARY or
> SHARED_OBJECT targets on the Mac

If someone wants to look into adding the missing functionality to
macpython-distutils that would be very welcome. Don't count on me
doing it within a reasonably short time, there's far too many things
on my todo list already.

Here's some hints for when someone wants to tackle it, and I'll always
be happy to supply more info, of course.

The main body of works is to get mkcwproject to create the CodeWarrior
project file. If you look in :Mac:Lib:mkcwproject:template-ppc or
...-carbon you'll see that there's a set of xml files there. These
files are templates, and they contain various %(name)s
constructs. These %()s escapes are filled in by the driver
(cwxmlgen.py), all the .xml files except the toplevel one,
template.prj.xml, are then again stored into strings, the %(tmp_xxxx)s
ones, and finally template.prj.xml is shoved through this whole
process.

The difficult bit is figuring out what needs to go into the various
.xml bits. The best route (what I did for the template-carbon, which
is newer than template-ppc) is to manually create a project for the
sort of target you need, let's say a classic ppc application. You save
this project as an xml file. Next, you copy an existing template to
template-ppc-application, modify mkcwproject to know about the new
template, and present mkcwproject with the input that should
eventually result in the same project file as what you manually
created in the step above.

Compare this generated XML file with the XML file you saved from the
manually generated correct project and you should be able (with some
gnashing of teeth) to modify the template-ppc-application files to
suit your needs.

Oh yes, what may help a bit too is to first update the existing
template to what your current version of CodeWarrior generates. That
should be fairly easy (save the generated project as XML again and
compare the generated XML with the generated-opened-and-saved-as-xml
file.

All in all it's not for the faint of heart, but it should be doable if
someone sets their mind to it.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From hoefler@typography.com  Fri Jul 13 00:26:42 2001
From: hoefler@typography.com (Jonathan Hoefler)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:26:42 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] QuickTime Musical Instruments?
Message-ID: <200107122326.TAA04456@newman.concentric.net>


Hello everyone,


Just van Rossum suggested I join the list to ask about some 
non-typographic Python things*. Today, I'm wondering whether there's any 
facility for operating QuickTime Musical Instruments from within Python 
-- if anyone has any experience with this, I'd love to learn more about 
it.

*By way of introduction, I'm a typeface designer who came to Python a few 
years ago through RoboFog. (While I do a lot of scripting, I'm most 
definitely a newbie, so please be gentle, and forgive any clay-footed 
blunders!) I look forward to seeing what everyone's up to.


Regards,

Jonathan




. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

New address >>

               The Hoefler Type Foundry      212 777 6640 x202
               611 Broadway, Room 608        212 777 6684 (fax)
               New York, NY 10012-2608       www.typography.com





From bobsavage@mac.com  Fri Jul 13 12:16:55 2001
From: bobsavage@mac.com (Bob Savage)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 04:16:55 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] setting tcsh path in OS X.bloat
In-Reply-To: <FKAJIHMCCNDKAAAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <200107131116.EAA26022@smtpout.mac.com>

On Monday, July 9, 2001, at 09:27  AM, parks kevin wrote:
> Reading the really unreadble README file we learn that we are supposed 
> to customize our tcsh by creating a ~/Library/init/tcsh dir and the 
> following files:
>
> 	aliases.mine		- shell aliases
> 	completions.mine	- completions
> 	environment.mine	- environment
> 	rc.mine			- run commands
> 	path			- command search path

I think this is an elegant mechanism for providing site-wide defaults 
that are easily supplemented by the user. If you want to learn how to 
use the tcsh there is a good book from O'Reilly on the subject.

Bob


From Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl  Fri Jul 13 15:46:09 2001
From: Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl (Yair Benita)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:46:09 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Compiling mxTextTools for the MAC
In-Reply-To: <20010712220646.B35D8162E06@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <B774D651.E3A%Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl>

on 13/7/2001 0:06, Jack Jansen at jack@oratrix.nl wrote:

> 
> Recently, Yair Benita <Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl> said:
>> I am trying to install Biopython on the Mac.
>> mxTextTools is essential for Biopython and thus I am trying to compile it.
>> It has a setup.py file and when trying to build the extensions with
>> distutils I get:
>> distutils.errors.DistutilsPlatformError: Can only make SHARED_LIBRARY or
>> SHARED_OBJECT targets on the Mac
> 
> If someone wants to look into adding the missing functionality to
> macpython-distutils that would be very welcome. Don't count on me
> doing it within a reasonably short time, there's far too many things
> on my todo list already.
> 
> Here's some hints for when someone wants to tackle it, and I'll always
> be happy to supply more info, of course.
> 
> The main body of works is to get mkcwproject to create the CodeWarrior
> project file. If you look in :Mac:Lib:mkcwproject:template-ppc or
> ...-carbon you'll see that there's a set of xml files there. These
> files are templates, and they contain various %(name)s
> constructs. These %()s escapes are filled in by the driver
> (cwxmlgen.py), all the .xml files except the toplevel one,
> template.prj.xml, are then again stored into strings, the %(tmp_xxxx)s
> ones, and finally template.prj.xml is shoved through this whole
> process.
> 
> The difficult bit is figuring out what needs to go into the various
> .xml bits. The best route (what I did for the template-carbon, which
> is newer than template-ppc) is to manually create a project for the
> sort of target you need, let's say a classic ppc application. You save
> this project as an xml file. Next, you copy an existing template to
> template-ppc-application, modify mkcwproject to know about the new
> template, and present mkcwproject with the input that should
> eventually result in the same project file as what you manually
> created in the step above.
> 
> Compare this generated XML file with the XML file you saved from the
> manually generated correct project and you should be able (with some
> gnashing of teeth) to modify the template-ppc-application files to
> suit your needs.
> 
> Oh yes, what may help a bit too is to first update the existing
> template to what your current version of CodeWarrior generates. That
> should be fairly easy (save the generated project as XML again and
> compare the generated XML with the generated-opened-and-saved-as-xml
> file.
> 
> All in all it's not for the faint of heart, but it should be doable if
> someone sets their mind to it.
> --
> Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
> Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
> www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm
> 

OK, I am not even going to pretend to be able to add functionality to
macpython-distutils. I wish I had those skills, but I'm just not there yet.
Is it possible, as a temporary solution, to generate the xml project file
from the setup.py file and manually import it to codewarrior?
Yair
-- 
Yair Benita
Pharmaceutical Proteomics
Utrecht University



From jack@oratrix.nl  Fri Jul 13 23:47:31 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 00:47:31 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Compiling mxTextTools for the MAC
In-Reply-To: Message by Yair Benita <Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl> ,
 Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:46:09 +0200 , <B774D651.E3A%Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <20010713224736.51CED162E01@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

> OK, I am not even going to pretend to be able to add functionality to
> macpython-distutils. I wish I had those skills, but I'm just not there yet.
> Is it possible, as a temporary solution, to generate the xml project file
> from the setup.py file and manually import it to codewarrior?

Well, what you could do is to manually (in codewarrior) create the
project for the item that distutils complains about on the mac. Then
build it yourself, and comment out the build instructions in setup.py.

How feasible this is (and how easy) I don't really know without
knowing the package....
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From me@davidglasser.net  Sat Jul 14 02:53:17 2001
From: me@davidglasser.net (David Glasser)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 21:53:17 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Installing pygame on MacPython classic
Message-ID: <l03130300b775522a4641@[63.121.116.113]>

So I wanted to play around with pygame on Mac.  I go to pygame.org and
download what is billed as "compiled python package directory, for macos
classic".  (I got the source too, although my C compilers are aging.)  I
unstuff it and am faced with five .py files (with matching .pyc's), a .ttf
font, and a bunch of .slb's that have the suspicious string "carbon" in
their name.  I'm not sure how to install them (I guess I must have missed
the "installing modules on MacPython docs"), and I'm not sure if this is
even Classic.

So where do I go from here?  (Other than rebooting into LinuxPPC, which
still isn't doing sound output on my poor little iMac DV.)

--David Glasser

me@davidglasser.net




From delza@alliances.org  Sat Jul 14 05:14:43 2001
From: delza@alliances.org (Dethe Elza)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 21:14:43 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Installing pygame on MacPython classic
References: <l03130300b775522a4641@[63.121.116.113]>
Message-ID: <3B4FC733.9060206@alliances.org>

I don't have any answers, but I've got a big ME TOO for the interest. 
I've had PyGame sitting in my "Install this stuff" folder for a month or
so now waiting for me to screw up the courage to figure out how to
install the damn thing.  Kinda takes away some of the benefit of python
when it's that difficult %-)

So, if anyone does have an answer, you'll have my gratitude in addition
to David's.

BTW, is there anywhere that Mac-specific python extensions are being
archived, so we don't have to keep doing this song and dance?  Not all
of us keep up to date with CodeWarrior, or want to.  If there isn't,
is anyone interested in putting heads together to figure out where we
should put one (an archive, that is).  There's some interesting work
going on in PythonLand about a CPAN for python, perhaps we can butt
in there and insist that they include better support for Macs?

--Dethe

David Glasser wrote:

> So I wanted to play around with pygame on Mac.  I go to pygame.org and
> download what is billed as "compiled python package directory, for macos
> classic".  (I got the source too, although my C compilers are aging.)  I
> unstuff it and am faced with five .py files (with matching .pyc's), a .ttf
> font, and a bunch of .slb's that have the suspicious string "carbon" in
> their name.  I'm not sure how to install them (I guess I must have missed
> the "installing modules on MacPython docs"), and I'm not sure if this is
> even Classic.
> 
> So where do I go from here?  (Other than rebooting into LinuxPPC, which
> still isn't doing sound output on my poor little iMac DV.)

--


Dethe Elza (delza@burningtiger.com)
Chief Mad Scientist
Burning Tiger Technologies (http://burningtiger.com)






From richard@richardgordon.net  Sat Jul 14 06:11:08 2001
From: richard@richardgordon.net (Richard Gordon)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 01:11:08 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Installing pygame on MacPython classic
In-Reply-To: <3B4FC733.9060206@alliances.org>
References: <l03130300b775522a4641@[63.121.116.113]>
 <3B4FC733.9060206@alliances.org>
Message-ID: <v04205505b7757fdfb55d@[192.168.0.2]>

At 9:14 PM -0700 7/13/01, Dethe Elza wrote:
>BTW, is there anywhere that Mac-specific python extensions are being
>archived, so we don't have to keep doing this song and dance?  Not all
>of us keep up to date with CodeWarrior, or want to.

That would be very nice, indeed. I don't have CodeWarrior and don't 
want to have it and have never gotten anywhere trying to do anything 
with MrC in MPW. My efforts to compile stuff in VC++ on windoze 
generally succeed, but with lots of warnings, etc., and I find it 
remarkable that the only environment that I really feel comfortable 
in when wandering down this path is unix/linux given that it should 
be the most inherently hostile of the three.

Anyway, there are lots of things that I have to run on linux or bsd 
because I can't compile them on a Mac- the MySQL and PostgreSQL 
modules come to mind immediately, but I don't think anything can be 
done about that since they require linking into the source for the 
database managers and neither one will run on a conventional Mac, 
ergo no source to link to.

I am still giving OS X another 6-12 months to smooth out before 
messing with it, but have pretty much concluded that the lack of 
Mac-specific extensions is not going to be resolved until I move to 
OS X and, in effect, don't need to worry about them if GCC will run 
and sort things out in a mainstream kind of way. If it won't then, I 
don't know.


Richard Gordon
--------------------
Gordon Design
Web Design/Database Development
http://www.richardgordon.net



From richard@richardgordon.net  Sun Jul 15 08:11:47 2001
From: richard@richardgordon.net (Richard Gordon)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 03:11:47 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] The Official MacPython LineEnding Converter
 Competition
In-Reply-To: <20010706084434.11347303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010706084434.11347303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <v04205500b776ef89aec7@[192.168.0.2]>

At 10:44 AM +0200 7/6/01, Jack Jansen wrote:
>Entries should be sent to the list, and the whole list will judge which script
>wins. If there's a tie the list maintainer (indeed, me:-) gets the tiebreaking
>vote.
>
>Entries should be in by August 1.
>--

Am I correct in believing that no entries have submitted thus far?

If this doesn't "have legs" as a competitive challenge, perhaps it 
will go somewhere as a collaborative effort? The end product is 
certainly needed and I for one am not too ashamed to post my own 
meager efforts, have some genius tell me I should be using classes 
and show me how, have some ultra-genius tell him how badly he screwed 
the pooch and show both of us how, etc.


Richard Gordon
--------------------
Gordon Design
Web Design/Database Development
http://www.richardgordon.net



From redbird@mac.com  Sun Jul 15 17:10:41 2001
From: redbird@mac.com (Gordon Worley)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:10:41 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] The Official MacPython LineEnding Converter
 Competition
In-Reply-To: <v04205500b776ef89aec7@[192.168.0.2]>
References: <20010706084434.11347303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
 <v04205500b776ef89aec7@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <a05100302b7776fffd94e@[10.0.1.2]>

At 3:11 AM -0400 7/15/01, Richard Gordon wrote:
>At 10:44 AM +0200 7/6/01, Jack Jansen wrote:
>>Entries should be sent to the list, and the whole list will judge 
>>which script
>>wins. If there's a tie the list maintainer (indeed, me:-) gets the 
>>tiebreaking
>>vote.
>>
>>Entries should be in by August 1.
>>--
>
>Am I correct in believing that no entries have submitted thus far?
>
>If this doesn't "have legs" as a competitive challenge, perhaps it 
>will go somewhere as a collaborative effort? The end product is 
>certainly needed and I for one am not too ashamed to post my own 
>meager efforts, have some genius tell me I should be using classes 
>and show me how, have some ultra-genius tell him how badly he 
>screwed the pooch and show both of us how, etc.

I have something that kind of works, but it's a command line tool 
that I use to Unixify my files.  I'm working on adding help and such 
so that it will be nice to use.  I'll post it soon, but if someone 
wants to add a Mac interface and all that would be nice (before I 
post it I'll add in an option to Macify and even DOSify files and do 
the tab conversions, since that code can be found all over the place 
Online :-)).
-- 
Gordon Worley                     `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty
http://homepage.mac.com/redbird/   said, `it means just what I choose
redbird@rbisland.cx                it to mean--neither more nor less.'
PGP:  0xBBD3B003                                  --Lewis Carroll


From scott@griffitts.com  Sun Jul 15 21:21:56 2001
From: scott@griffitts.com (Scott Griffitts)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 15:21:56 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] newbie file path question
Message-ID: <B7776590.22835%scott@griffitts.com>

How do I import a .py file outside of the Python directory?

for example, if I want to import test1.py from the following path:

HD:folder1:folder2:folder3:test.py

how do I word the file path between import and test.py?

Thanks,

Scott




From just@letterror.com  Sun Jul 15 21:27:53 2001
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 22:27:53 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] newbie file path question
In-Reply-To: <B7776590.22835%scott@griffitts.com>
Message-ID: <20010715222800-r01010700-80f489a7-0910-010c@213.84.27.177>

Scott Griffitts wrote:

> How do I import a .py file outside of the Python directory?
> 
> for example, if I want to import test1.py from the following path:
> 
> HD:folder1:folder2:folder3:test.py
> 
> how do I word the file path between import and test.py?

You have to add HD:folder1:folder2:folder3: to the sys.path (the module search
search path) default settings with EditPythonPrefs. Just add your folder path as
a new line at the end (don't add $(PYTHON), as that's a magic prefix meaning the
python installation folder).

Just


From jack@oratrix.nl  Sun Jul 15 22:02:14 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 23:02:14 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] The Official MacPython LineEnding Converter Competition
In-Reply-To: Message by Richard Gordon <richard@richardgordon.net> ,
 Sun, 15 Jul 2001 03:11:47 -0400 , <v04205500b776ef89aec7@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <20010715210219.78D1A162E05@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Richard Gordon <richard@richardgordon.net> said:
> Am I correct in believing that no entries have submitted thus far?
> 
> If this doesn't "have legs" as a competitive challenge, perhaps it 
> will go somewhere as a collaborative effort?

Great idea! I'll extend the prize to "a free copy of MacPython to
everyone who contributed":-)
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Sun Jul 15 22:09:18 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 23:09:18 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] What if MacPython 2.1.1 contained some new features?
Message-ID: <20010715210923.40F63162E06@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Folks,
the official Python policy is that micro-versions contain only bug
fixes and no new features. However, I'm a bit reluctant to search
through all the checkins of the last couple of moths to see what is a
bugfix and what is a new feature.

So here's my question: would people object if MacPython 2.1.1
contained a few bits of new functionality? The new functionality would
probably only be a couple of new modules, so I'm reasonably sure that
it wouldn't break any existing code.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | ++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/ ++++


From richard@richardgordon.net  Sun Jul 15 23:16:37 2001
From: richard@richardgordon.net (Richard Gordon)
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 18:16:37 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] newbie file path question
In-Reply-To: <B7776590.22835%scott@griffitts.com>
References: <B7776590.22835%scott@griffitts.com>
Message-ID: <v04205501b777c5a5fcfa@[192.168.0.2]>

At 3:21 PM -0500 7/15/01, Scott Griffitts wrote:
>How do I import a .py file outside of the Python directory?
>
>for example, if I want to import test1.py from the following path:
>
>HD:folder1:folder2:folder3:test.py
>
>how do I word the file path between import and test.py?

Aside from Just's suggestion that you edit your preferences to 
include the desired path, you could temporarily append it to sys.path 
as follows:

import sys
sys.path.append('HD:folder1:folder2:folder3')
import test1

Note that a trailing ":" is not necessary if you are going to do it 
this way and you do not include the .py extension in an import 
statement in any case.


Richard Gordon
--------------------
Gordon Design
Web Design/Database Development
http://www.richardgordon.net



From wwwjessie@21cn.com  Mon Jul 16 10:47:34 2001
From: wwwjessie@21cn.com (wwwjessie@21cn.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 17:47:34 +0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] =?gb2312?B?tPPBrC0yMDAxxOq5+rzKwszJq8qzxrfT68jLwOC9ob+1sqnAwLvhKA==?=	=?gb2312?B?QWdybyBBbm51YWwgTWVldGluZyBDaGluYSAyMDAxKQ0=?=
Message-ID: <2d98201c10ddc$56e355f0$9300a8c0@ifood1gongxing>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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From Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl  Mon Jul 16 17:39:13 2001
From: Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl (Yair Benita)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 18:39:13 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Compiling shared library modules
Message-ID: <B778E551.E5D%Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl>

Well, after struggling with mxTextTools for a while I found the problem.
Some systems required the shared library modules to be executable.
Just to save some work the developers make them executable without checking
what system is used. On the Mac it immediately fails.
distutils.errors.DistutilsPlatformError: Can only make SHARED_LIBRARY or
SHARED_OBJECT targets on the Mac
I used the debugger to find the executable configuration and made it shared
library. Now it works.
Maybe it can help you guys with other modules that have the same problem.
Yair
-- 
Yair Benita
Pharmaceutical Proteomics
Utrecht University



From draayer@surfglobal.net  Tue Jul 17 07:11:27 2001
From: draayer@surfglobal.net (Dean Draayer)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 02:11:27 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: newbie file path question
Message-ID: <E15MO4L-0006zy-00@mail.python.org>

On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 18:16:37 -0400, Richard Gordon wrote:

> Aside from Just's suggestion that you edit your preferences to 
> include the desired path, you could temporarily append it to 
> sys.path as follows:
> 
> import sys
> sys.path.append('HD:folder1:folder2:folder3')
> import test1


Or let the IDE do it for you with a GetDirectory call.  I like to put 
the following scripts in the Python IDE Scripts folder (set via menu 
Python > Preferences > Set Scripts folder...):

#----------
# Script: "Add Folder to Search Path.py"

import macfs
import sys

(f,OK) = macfs.GetDirectory("Select a folder to add to sys.path:")
if OK:
    f = f.as_pathname()
    sys.path.insert(0,f)    # put at front of the search path
#----------

#----------
# Script: "Show Search Path.py"

from sys import path
print "sys.path:"
for p in path:
    print "\t%s" % p
#----------

I like to put ':' as the first item in my global IDE/Interpreter 
search path.  When a script is saved as an applet or application, this 
will refer to the folder containing it.  But when editing the script 
in Python IDE, ':' refers to the IDE's parent folder.  (I don't like 
to litter the global IDE/Interpreter paths with my individual project 
folders.)  "Add Folder to Search Path.py" provides a quick-and-dirty 
way to get the applet-to-be's parent in the search path while working 
on it in the IDE.

Dean Draayer



From desoi@mac.com  Tue Jul 17 22:44:13 2001
From: desoi@mac.com (John DeSoi)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 17:44:13 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Embedding question
Message-ID: <p04330102b77a5e9ab48e@[192.168.1.5]>

Hi,

I'm interested in taking on an embedding project. I have successfully 
started Python from my application using the PyMac_Initialize() call 
in the shared library. The problem is that I need to control all of 
the window creation in my application and as soon as I call 
PyMac_Initialize() the console window is created. Is there a way to 
initialize and use Python without the console window? I could find 
anything in the examples or documentation.

Thanks,

John DeSoi, Ph.D.


From kp87@lycos.com  Wed Jul 18 03:02:25 2001
From: kp87@lycos.com (kevin parks)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 11:02:25 +0900
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] packages
Message-ID: <AMPDGOKLMINHBAAA@mailcity.com>

how do you install packages on Mac OS 9.x?

I am looking to install the following package
called pmask

http://pythonsound.sourceforge.net/pmask/

it has a setup.py, which if i run i get a funny dialog box asking for commands. I hit just took a guess and said install and the thing ran a while and then a traceback error. Anyone ever run pmask on this list? Is the package broken? or is my brain broken?


cheers,
-kp--

ps. How do you uninstall a package that you don't want.

I am hating packages already. Why can't it just be a module like pretty much everything else? Who needs that much structure? Ugh! (i am sure all you package lovers will set me straight and tell me how useful they are). I just want this one to work!




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From Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl  Wed Jul 18 08:21:55 2001
From: Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl (Yair Benita)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:21:55 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] packages
In-Reply-To: <AMPDGOKLMINHBAAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <B77B05B2.E7D%Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl>

on 18/7/2001 4:02, kevin parks at kp87@lycos.com wrote:

> how do you install packages on Mac OS 9.x?
> 
> I am looking to install the following package
> called pmask
> 
> http://pythonsound.sourceforge.net/pmask/
> 
> it has a setup.py, which if i run i get a funny dialog box asking for
> commands. I hit just took a guess and said install and the thing ran a while
> and then a traceback error. Anyone ever run pmask on this list? Is the package
> broken? or is my brain broken?
> 
> 
> cheers,
> -kp--
> 
> ps. How do you uninstall a package that you don't want.
> 
> I am hating packages already. Why can't it just be a module like pretty much
> everything else? Who needs that much structure? Ugh! (i am sure all you
> package lovers will set me straight and tell me how useful they are). I just
> want this one to work!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
> http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
> 
Dear Kevin,
The nice thing about these packages are that they are platform independent.
They were probably not designed for the Mac but with some effort we can use
them.
In the "funny" window you should select build. Then a folder "build" will
appear in the same location as the setup.py file and all the files will be
generated there. Try to do it in two steps: Build_py copies only python
files to the build folder (which should not fail) and Build_ext will build
only the extensions (which will probably fail). Theoretically, once the
build is successful, the install command moves the files to the correct
location inside the python folder. I'm not sure it works on the Mac, I copy
everything manually (into the site-packages folder).
The biggest problem is to get the extensions compiled. I don't know your
package but I hope its not too difficult in your case. A good place to start
is Jack Jansen's instructions on building python from source. It helped me a
lot.
Yair 
-- 
Yair Benita
Pharmaceutical Proteomics
Utrecht University



From kp87@lycos.com  Wed Jul 18 16:36:11 2001
From: kp87@lycos.com (kevin parks)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 00:36:11 +0900
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] scripts on 9.x
Message-ID: <BPJPMPCIAKOPAAAA@mailcity.com>

One thing that i have never been able to figure out is how to execute scripts on Mac. Particularly scripts that expect input or output from the stdin/out. You see so many scripts these days and i plan to do more scripting and less work in the interpreter myself now that i have OS X running smoothly. For example, from the useless python site i find a script like this. Do i have to put in the 
if __name__ == '__main__':
	finout()
	
trick and run as main or iin the interpreter or is there someway to run it as is. I thought that you could just run it by dropping it on the interpreter, getting a dialog box., but i am guessing that this doesn't work as this script expects redirect or pipes from the Unix command line.

Sorry for all the questions, i only have a few weeks of freedom from my job and i really want to get up to speed with python and running under X with the Unix install and  the present Mac OS 9 distribution (which i see is now comes in a carbon flavor)

Thanks for enduring my queries!

-kevin parks
seoul, korea



#!/usr/bin/env python

#
# Count the number of lines, characters, words, and occurences of each word in a
# file.  A word is delimted by whitespace and punctuation (as defined by the
# builting string.whitespace and string.punctuation variables).
#

import sys
import string
import re

# initialize the counters
linecount = 0
charcount = 0
wordcount = 0
# this is where I will store the total count of each word
words     = { }


# iterate over each line on stdin
for line in sys.stdin.readlines() :
    linecount += 1
    charcount += len( line )

    # remove leading and trailing whitespace
    line = string.strip( line ) 

    # split the string into a list of words
    # a word is delimited by whitespace or punctuation
    for word in re.split(
            "[" + string.whitespace + string.punctuation + "]+" ,
            line ) :

        # make the word lower case
        word = string.lower( word )

        # check to make sure the string is considered a word
        if re.match( "^[" + string.lowercase + "]+$" , word ) :
            wordcount += 1

            # if the word has been found before, increment its count
            # otherwise initialize its count to 1
            if words.has_key( word ) :
                words[ word ] += 1
            else :
                words[ word ] = 1

        
# Now print out the results of the count:
print
print "Number of lines:" , linecount
print "Total word count:" , wordcount
print "Total character count:" , charcount
print

# print each word and its count in sorted order
sorted_word_list = words.keys()
sorted_word_list.sort()

for word in sorted_word_list :
    print word , ":" , words[ word ]





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From rbl@hal.cwru.edu  Wed Jul 18 17:41:12 2001
From: rbl@hal.cwru.edu (Robin B. Lake)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 12:41:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python IDE does not play well with Netscape 6
Message-ID: <200107181641.MAA09406@hal.cwru.edu>

Setup:

Mac G3, 160 MB RAM, OS 8.6, Python 2.0, Python IDE

Situation:

with Netscape 6.1 Preview Release 1 launched, launch Python IDE.  Get message :
ImportError: List.ppc.slb: too many files open

Quit Netscape and Python IDE launches fine.

Any clues?

Thanks,
Rob Lake
lake@cwru.edu



From richard@richardgordon.net  Wed Jul 18 18:04:27 2001
From: richard@richardgordon.net (Richard Gordon)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:04:27 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] scripts on 9.x
In-Reply-To: <BPJPMPCIAKOPAAAA@mailcity.com>
References: <BPJPMPCIAKOPAAAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <v04205500b77b7122b73f@[192.168.0.2]>

At 12:36 AM +0900 7/19/01, kevin parks wrote:
One thing that i have never been able to figure out is how to execute 
scripts on Mac. Particularly scripts that expect input or output from 
the stdin/out. You see so many scripts these days and i plan to do 
more scripting and less work in the interpreter myself now that i 
have OS X running smoothly. For example, from the useless python site 
i find a script like this.

The Mac specifics are rather well documented and you might want to 
take a look at http://www.python.org/doc/current/mac/argv.html and 
the other sections that relate to your questions.

Richard Gordon
--------------------
Gordon Design
Web Design/Database Development
http://www.richardgordon.net



From mday@apple.com  Wed Jul 18 18:22:57 2001
From: mday@apple.com (Mark Day)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:22:57 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python IDE does not play well with Netscape 6
Message-ID: <8796D589-7BA1-11D5-8A53-00039303AF92@apple.com>

From: Mark Day <mday@mac.com>
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2001  10:21:14 AM US/Pacific
To: "Robin B. Lake" <rbl@hal.cwru.edu>
Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python IDE does not play well with 
Netscape 6

On Wednesday, July 18, 2001, at 09:41 AM, Robin B. Lake wrote:

 > Mac G3, 160 MB RAM, OS 8.6, Python 2.0, Python IDE

 > with Netscape 6.1 Preview Release 1 launched, launch Python IDE.  Get 
message :
 > ImportError: List.ppc.slb: too many files open

Like it says, the OS can't open any more files.  Under Mac OS 8.6 and 
earlier, only 348 files can be opened.  A default install of the OS will 
use 100-150 of those.  User-installed fonts use more of them.  Open 
applications and documents use more.  In particular, shared libraries 
keep files open (so the library can be memory mapped).  So, importing 
more Python modules uses up more open files.  And Netscape 6.1 probably 
has a lot of shared libraries itself.

You may be able to reduce the problem by getting rid of fonts you don't 
use.  You can also disable extensions, control panels, etc. that you 
don't use.

You can also upgrade to Mac OS 9 (and the free updates to 9.0.4 or 
9.1).  In Mac OS 9, you can have up to 8169 open files.

-Mark



From richard@richardgordon.net  Wed Jul 18 18:31:20 2001
From: richard@richardgordon.net (Richard Gordon)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:31:20 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python IDE does not play well with Netscape 6
In-Reply-To: <200107181641.MAA09406@hal.cwru.edu>
References: <200107181641.MAA09406@hal.cwru.edu>
Message-ID: <v04205500b77b7639e93c@[192.168.0.2]>

At 12:41 PM -0400 7/18/01, Robin B. Lake wrote:
>Setup:
>
>Mac G3, 160 MB RAM, OS 8.6, Python 2.0, Python IDE
>
>Situation:
>
>with Netscape 6.1 Preview Release 1 launched, launch Python IDE. 
>Get message :
>ImportError: List.ppc.slb: too many files open
>
>Quit Netscape and Python IDE launches fine.

I suppose it could be several things, but here's my guess:

I think that until OS 9, the MacOS had an internal limit of 248 open 
files. Running under OS 8.6 with Eudora and a few other things open, 
I'm usually in the 130+ range and it appears that the IDE opens about 
4 files while Mozilla .9 opens about 14 (browser only, no mail or 
news, etc.), so you wouldn't think that this would be a big issue 
unless you had a lot of other stuff up as well. But my recollection 
is that if you have virtual memory on, the file count more or less 
doubles which could put you over the limit pretty quickly. I don't 
have enough free space to turn on VM now to confirm this, but you 
might disable it if you are using it and see if that helps any.

Alsoft has a free control strip utility called Open File Count that 
you can chase down if this proves to be something that you need to 
keep an eye on.


Richard Gordon
--------------------
Gordon Design
Web Design/Database Development
http://www.richardgordon.net



From kp87@lycos.com  Wed Jul 18 18:35:32 2001
From: kp87@lycos.com (kevin parks)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 02:35:32 +0900
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] scripts on 9.x
Message-ID: <IPNNJIHDHHALBAAA@mailcity.com>

Ah! http://www.python.org has been updated! (April 2001) I hadn't noticed that. I always assumed that any recent mac specifics were in the distribution (those 2 old dusty files you get )

Python 2.1:Mac:Demo:index.html
&
Python 2.1:Mac/Demo/using.html

Why these are in a folder called "demo" i'll never know! Nevertheless as you point out much good info can be had now at 

http://www.python.org/doc/current/mac/using.html


Yes, RTFM!  

thanks! thanks thanks!
---

kp87@lycos.com




Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/


From chrishbarker@home.net  Wed Jul 18 21:50:24 2001
From: chrishbarker@home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:50:24 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] scripts on 9.x
References: <IPNNJIHDHHALBAAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <3B55F690.4493D18D@home.net>

kevin parks wrote:
> Python 2.1:Mac:Demo:index.html
> &
> Python 2.1:Mac/Demo/using.html
> 
> Why these are in a folder called "demo" i'll never know! Nevertheless as you point out much good info can be had now at
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/mac/using.html

Note that the stuff in there was put together pretty quickly, and is
pretty limited. I was frustrated with the out of data MacPython docs, so
T took a little time to re-structure and add to them (with help from a
number of folks on this mailing list) just before the 2.0 release. I
would love for there to be much more in the "official" docs. There is a
bunch of stuff in Python 2.1:Mac:Demo: that could be used as a start for
what to add to the doc.

I know that Fred Drake, the keeper of the official docs, would love to
see the Macintosh section improved as well. If anyone wants to work on
part of it, I'd be glad to help, and act as coordinator again. Please
contribute!!!

-Chris



-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker@home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From chrishbarker@home.net  Wed Jul 18 21:53:36 2001
From: chrishbarker@home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:53:36 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython Modules archive
References: <l03130300b775522a4641@[63.121.116.113]> <3B4FC733.9060206@alliances.org>
Message-ID: <3B55F750.FCD00165@home.net>

Dethe Elza wrote:

> BTW, is there anywhere that Mac-specific python extensions are being
> archived, so we don't have to keep doing this song and dance?  Not all
> of us keep up to date with CodeWarrior, or want to.  If there isn't,
> is anyone interested in putting heads together to figure out where we
> should put one (an archive, that is).  There's some interesting work
> going on in PythonLand about a CPAN for python, perhaps we can butt
> in there and insist that they include better support for Macs?

There is a lot of talk about a CPyAN, we'll see what happens. In the
meantime, I am taking a simpler approach, and putting together a simple
achive of commonly used modules, and I would LOVE to have the Mac well
represented there. I will do what I can on my own, but It would be great
to have someone volunteer to be in change of collecting and testing the
Mac modules. Any volunteers??

-Chris





-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker@home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From jack@oratrix.nl  Wed Jul 18 21:51:42 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 22:51:42 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python IDE does not play well with Netscape 6
In-Reply-To: Message by Richard Gordon <richard@richardgordon.net> ,
 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:31:20 -0400 , <v04205500b77b7639e93c@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <20010718205147.9ADC3162E09@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Thanks to Richard and Mark for providing the explanation of this
problem, and I'd merely like to throw in a request: if MacPython keeps
more files open than it should please let me know. The only things it
should keep open are the dynamically loaded modules plus a few minor
things like the IDE resource file. If large amounts of, say, .pyc
files remain open there is indeed a problem with MacPython.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Wed Jul 18 21:57:32 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 22:57:32 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] scripts on 9.x
In-Reply-To: Message by "kevin parks" <kp87@lycos.com> ,
 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 02:35:32 +0900 , <IPNNJIHDHHALBAAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <20010718205737.D1982162E09@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, "kevin parks" <kp87@lycos.com> said:
> Why these are in a folder called "demo" i'll never know! Nevertheless as you 
> point out much good info can be had now at 

Ah, simple, because the first thing I put into that folder was a
demo. And then the demo was documented. And then more demos and docs
were added. And then it stopped, more-or-less:-(

If you (or someone else) would like to take on reorganising the Demo
folder: please do so! Chris Barker and some others did a valiant job
at getting the mac lib docsection in a better shape, but the stuff in
Demo is definitely long due for an overhaul too. It's currently little
more than an unorganized pile of things that I really _must_ say
somewhere... 
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From richard@richardgordon.net  Thu Jul 19 06:09:33 2001
From: richard@richardgordon.net (Richard Gordon)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 01:09:33 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Now this is pretty cool...
Message-ID: <v04205500b77c173f9886@[192.168.0.2]>

hi

I don't know if many of you have occasion to do battle with win2k, 
but I just noticed that aside from the usual stuff about 'type 
"license" to read the license' that prints to the screen when you 
first launch the interpreter, in the ActiveState Python 2.1 build it 
also mentions "help." Lo and behold, those guys have developed a 
really nice man (unix) style online help system that covers reserved 
words, modules, etc. If you seek help on a particular module, it 
outputs what appears to be a lot more than just the usual doc string 
stuff. There is also a topic list, but mine isn't working because I 
haven't set a PYTHONDOC variable yet (and didn't even know that there 
was one).

Anyway, I wonder what the odds are of getting something like this 
into the Mac (or even the unix) versions of python? I know that you 
can already learn a lot by browsing modules in IDE or IDLE, but there 
are lots of times that I prefer to use the interpreter for various 
reasons and it would be nice to get into a documentation system 
without having to leave it.

Disclaimer: Yes, I know windoze blows, M$ is trying to hijack python, 
perl and now tcl, etc., but the fact is that the ActiveState guys do 
a nice job- at least it's entirely possible thanks mainly to them to 
do anything on a windoze box in python that you could do in VB and, 
realities being as they are, I am grateful for their efforts.

Richard Gordon
--------------------
Gordon Design
Web Design/Database Development
http://www.richardgordon.net



From Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl  Thu Jul 19 09:52:19 2001
From: Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl (Yair Benita)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:52:19 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] os.pipe()
Message-ID: <B77C6C63.E9A%Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl>

I use a module which uses os.pipe(). Its not available on the Mac for some
reason. The library file just describes it as creating a pipe and returning
two file descriptor for reading and writing. Any idea what to do on the Mac?
Is it simply two handles to two files?
Yair 
-- 
Yair Benita
Pharmaceutical Proteomics
Utrecht University



From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Jul 19 10:20:16 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:20:16 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] os.pipe()
In-Reply-To: Message by Yair Benita <Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl> ,
 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:52:19 +0200 , <B77C6C63.E9A%Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <20010719092017.0B8DA303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> I use a module which uses os.pipe(). Its not available on the Mac for some
> reason. The library file just describes it as creating a pipe and returning
> two file descriptor for reading and writing. Any idea what to do on the Mac?
> Is it simply two handles to two files?

A pipe is an operating system construct, and one that MacOS (9 or earlier) 
doesn't have, so that's what MacPython doesn't have it.

If you haven't seen pipes before they're probably best visualised as a serial 
line, but going between two processes on the same machine in stead of between 
two machines.

Pipes can sometimes be simulated by letting the first process write a file, 
and then reading it by the second process after the first one terminates. 
Another (often better) option is to use sockets.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl  Thu Jul 19 10:36:23 2001
From: Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl (Yair Benita)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:36:23 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] os.pipe()
In-Reply-To: <20010719092017.0B8DA303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <B77C76B7.EA3%Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl>

on 19/7/2001 11:20, Jack Jansen at jack@oratrix.nl wrote:

>> I use a module which uses os.pipe(). Its not available on the Mac for some
>> reason. The library file just describes it as creating a pipe and returning
>> two file descriptor for reading and writing. Any idea what to do on the Mac?
>> Is it simply two handles to two files?
> 
> A pipe is an operating system construct, and one that MacOS (9 or earlier)
> doesn't have, so that's what MacPython doesn't have it.
> 
> If you haven't seen pipes before they're probably best visualised as a serial
> line, but going between two processes on the same machine in stead of between
> two machines.
> 
> Pipes can sometimes be simulated by letting the first process write a file,
> and then reading it by the second process after the first one terminates.
> Another (often better) option is to use sockets.
> --
> Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
> Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
> www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm
> 
> 
> 
I was wondering what the os.pipe() code look like. I downloaded the
python2.1 source code again and could not find that function in the os.py
file. Any idea where it hides?
Yair
-- 
Yair Benita
Pharmaceutical Proteomics
Utrecht University



From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Jul 19 11:06:43 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:06:43 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] os.pipe()
In-Reply-To: Message by Yair Benita <Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl> ,
 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:36:23 +0200 , <B77C76B7.EA3%Y.Benita@pharm.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <20010719100643.D763D303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> I was wondering what the os.pipe() code look like. I downloaded the
> python2.1 source code again and could not find that function in the os.py
> file. Any idea where it hides?

The os module (:Lib:os.py) is a bit magic, in that it imports everything from 
an underlying module that is suystem dependent. If you look at it you'll see 
at some point
elif 'mac' in _names:
    ...
    from mac import *

and there's similar code for other platforms. Or in other words: most of the 
functionality for the os modules comes from the builtin module "mac", which 
lives (in a source distribution) in :Mac:Modules:macmodule.c. On Unix it'll 
come from the "posix" module, which lives in Modules/posixmodule.c, etc.

Inspecting macmodule.c you'll see that there's no pipe() function. Inspecting 
posixmodule.c you'll see that the pipe() function does little more than 
calling the operating system pipe() call.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From richard@richardgordon.net  Thu Jul 19 13:20:49 2001
From: richard@richardgordon.net (Richard Gordon)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:20:49 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Now this is pretty cool...
Message-ID: <v04205501b77c80f56eda@[192.168.0.2]>

At 12:15 PM +0100 7/19/01, Jacob Kaplan-Moss wrote:
>Actually, I don't think that the "help" function is specific to 
>ActiveState; it's part of Ka-Ping Yee's PyDoc module, which AFAIK is 
>included with Python 2.0 and above.
>
>It's really awesome; try this:
>
>>>>from pydoc import help
>>>>import MacOS
>help(MacOS)

hey, you're right. I was already aware of PyDoc, but didn't know that 
this was part of it. Thanks a lot.

>In general, typing "help(obj)" will give info about the object, be 
>it a function, class, module, etc.  If you just type "help" it will 
>enter the interactive help mode, which is also really cool.
>
>If you want "help" to be available all the time, add "from pydoc 
>import help" to your site.py.
>
>Jack -- Do you think this should be done by default?  If the default 
>site.py was modified to include this the import and a message was 
>added to the startup string, then this would mimic the (quite 
>helpful) ActiveState way of doing things.

I would second this suggestion. This is too useful to be turned off by default.


Richard Gordon
--------------------
Gordon Design
Web Design/Database Development
http://www.richardgordon.net



From redbird@rbisland.cx  Thu Jul 19 02:18:44 2001
From: redbird@rbisland.cx (Gordon Worley)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:18:44 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] cheol (Content entry, sort of)
Message-ID: <a05100300b77bd5615906@[10.0.1.2]>

Okay, I promised, and thus I deliver.  :-)

Below is my command line tool for changing the line ending characters 
in text files.  It supports regular expression pattern matching since 
I'm not sure how well regular shell pattern expansion would work when 
converted to work on Classic as well as OS X.  As you might have 
guessed, this is a command line tool (since I don't use MacPython 
anymore, just Python on OS X), so if you want an interface someone 
else is going to have to do it.  Also, I decided not to include 
en/detabbing, since this is a line ending changer and it wouldn't be 
very Unixy if I started adding all sorts of features willy nilly (in 
fact, I think I'm going to take out the pattern matching when I 
officially release a version of this on my Web site since it's just 
there to make it easy to add a Mac interface to).  Oh, also, someone 
might want to improve the converting to dos line endings, since it 
will screw up the file if you type 'cheol -d dos_file.txt' (but I 
rarely need to convert to dos line endings so I just don't worry 
about it).

Finally, some of the variable names suck, and I know it, but that's 
just me being a BOFH so that I will be assured to win all future 
contests that want to use this code.  ;-P

Oh, and as far as help, man page forthcoming.  ;^)

cheol.py:

#!/usr/bin/python

"""
cheol:  change end of line character
Copyright (C) 2000-2001 Gordon Worley

This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or any
later version.

This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU
General Public License for more details.

For a copy of the GNU General Public License, visit
<http://www.gnu.org/> or write to the Free Software Foundation, Inc.,
59 Temple Place--Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.

To contact me, please visit my Web site at <http://homepage.mac.com/
redbird/> or e-mail me at <redbird@rbisland.cx>.

#history

#0.3 added help and ability to convert to mac and dos.  Name changed
  to cheol.py from unixify.pl.
#0.1 added recursion, uses Jurgen Hermann's FileMorpher
#0.0 just converts the given files
"""

__version__ = "cheol 0.3, Copyright Gordon Worley via the GNU 
GPL.\nType -h for help"
#fn = filename

#this first part is not by me, but put right in this code
#so that everything can stay in one file :-)
#by Jurgen Hermann, from ASPN

import os, string

def replaceFile(oldname, newname):
	""" Rename file 'oldname' to 'newname'.
	"""
	if os.name == 'nt' and os.path.exists(oldname):
		# POSIX rename does an atomic replace, WIN32 rename 
does not. :-(
		try:
			os.remove(newname)
		except OSError, exc:
			import errno
			if exc.errno != errno.ENOENT: raise exc

	# rename it
	os.rename(oldname, newname)


class FileMorpher:
	""" A class that enables a client to securely update an existing file,
		including the ability to make an automated backup version.
	"""

	def __init__(self, filename, **kw):
		""" The constructor takes the filename and some options.

			backup -- boolean indicating whether you want 
a backup file

				(default is yes)
		"""
		self.filename = filename
		self.do_backup = kw.get('backup', 0)

		self.stream = None
		self.basename, ext = os.path.splitext(self.filename)


	def __del__(self):
		if self.stream:
			# Remove open temp file
			self.__close()
			os.remove(self.__tempfile())


	def __tempfile(self):
		return self.basename + ".tmp"


	def __close(self):
		""" Close temp stream, if open.
		"""
		if self.stream:
			self.stream.close()
			self.stream = None


	def load(self):
		""" Load the content of the original file into a string and
			return it. All I/O exceptions are passed through.
		"""
		file = open(self.filename, "rt")
		try:
			content = file.read()
		finally:
			file.close()

		return content


	def save(self, content):
		""" Save new content, using a temporary file.
		"""
		file = self.opentemp()
		file.write(content)
		self.commit()


	def opentemp(self):
		""" Open a temporary file for writing and return an 
open stream.
		"""
		assert not self.stream, "Write stream already open"

		self.stream = open(self.__tempfile(), "wt")

		return self.stream


	def commit(self):
		""" Close the open temp stream and replace the original file,
			optionally making a backup copy.
		"""
		assert self.stream, "Write stream not open"

		# close temp file
		self.__close()

		# do optional backup and rename temp file to the correct name
		if self.do_backup:
			replaceFile(self.filename, self.basename + ".bak")
		replaceFile(self.__tempfile(), self.filename)

#end part not by me
#begin part by me

import re

def convert(fn, pattern, mode, is_recv):
	if is_recv:
		if os.path.isdir(fn) and not os.path.islink(fn):
			fns = os.listdir(fn)
			for afn in fns:
				convert(os.path.join(fn, afn), 
pattern, mode, is_recv)
	if re.match(pattern, fn) and not os.path.isdir(fn):
		f = FileMorpher(fn)
		temp = f.load()
		if mode == 1:
			temp = string.replace(temp, '\n\r', '\n')
			temp = string.replace(temp, '\r', '\n')
		elif mode == 0:
			temp = string.replace(temp, '\n\r', '\r')
			temp = string.replace(temp, '\n', '\r')
		elif mode == 2:
			#this code could be dangerous, but I don't do these
			#conversions often enough to care :-P
			temp = string.replace(temp, '\r', '\n')
			temp = string.replace(temp, '\n', '\n\r')
		stream = f.opentemp()
		stream.write(temp)
		f.commit()

help = """\
cheol:	Converts EOL characters

%s [options] <path ...>
  options
  -r : recursive
  -m : macify line endings
  -u : unixify line endings
  -d : dosify line endings
  -p <pattern> : apply only to filenames matching <pattern>
  -h : print help
  path is a file or directory
"""

if __name__ == '__main__':
	import sys, getopt
	opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], "hmudrp:")
	mode = 1 #default is unix, 0 is mac, 2 is dos
	is_recv = 0 #is recursive
	pattern = ""
	for opt in opts:
		if opt[0] == "-r":
			is_recv = 1
		elif opt[0] == "-p":
			pattern = opt[1]
		elif opt[0] == "-m":
			mode = 0;
		elif opt[0] == "-u":
			mode = 1;
		elif opt[0] == "-d":
			mode = 2;
		elif opt[0] == "-h":
			print help % sys.argv[0]
			sys.exit(0)
	if not args:
		print __version__
	for arg in args:
		convert(arg, pattern, mode, is_recv);
-- 
Gordon Worley                     `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty
http://homepage.mac.com/redbird/   said, `it means just what I choose
redbird@rbisland.cx                it to mean--neither more nor less.'
PGP:  0xBBD3B003                                  --Lewis Carroll


From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Jul 19 21:50:01 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 22:50:01 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] cheol (Content entry, sort of)
In-Reply-To: Message by Gordon Worley <redbird@rbisland.cx> ,
 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:18:44 -0400 , <a05100300b77bd5615906@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <20010719205006.36BDD14A259@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Gordon,
I'm a bit worried about the GPL license, that will probably make it
impossible to include it in the distribution, because there's a firm
statement from the BDFL that Python is Open Source, and GPL-compatible
Open Source at that, but not GPL itself.

And, for one, if Python was GPL it would mean that I myself couldn't use
Python to create our GRiNS multimedia authoring system...
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Jul 19 21:46:05 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 22:46:05 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Now this is pretty cool...
In-Reply-To: Message by Richard Gordon <richard@richardgordon.net> ,
 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:20:49 -0400 , <v04205501b77c80f56eda@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <20010719204610.E9473DA747@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Richard Gordon <richard@richardgordon.net> said:
> >Jack -- Do you think this should be done by default?  If the default 
> >site.py was modified to include this the import and a message was 
> >added to the startup string, then this would mimic the (quite 
> >helpful) ActiveState way of doing things.
> 
> I would second this suggestion. This is too useful to be turned off by defaul
> t.

I think I would prefer it if IDE provided a hook into this, or if
someone donated an IDE script for this (how about something that looks
up help on the current selection, and if there is no selection shows a
dialog box in which you can type the thing you want to look up?).

I don't like adding too much to site.py because (a) PythonInterpreter
shouldn't really be used interactively (even though I do it all the
time:-), IDE should be used for that and (b) site.py also gets loaded
by every script, and all this stuff will make all scripts start up
slower.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Jul 19 22:26:38 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:26:38 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Need help with CFM fragment version numbers
Message-ID: <20010719212643.D6E06DA747@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

If someone can help me with the following that'd be nice.

What I finally wanted to do for MacPython 2.1.1 is use the CFM
fragment version numbers is make PythonCore backward compatible to 2.1
extension modules. How I thought this worked is by setting the "old
definition" and "current version" numbers to the current (2.1.1)
version number and setting the "old implementation" to the old (2.1)
number.

Unfortunately this doesn't work. A previously linked PythonInterpreter
refused to load PythonCore, while my understanding was that it should.

Before I break things, can someone help me with this? Even if it
doesn't make it into 2.1.1 I'd like to provide this functionality in
the future.

To be completely clear, what I want to attain is:
- Extension modules linked against 2.1 will continue to work for
2.1.1.
- Extension modules linked against 2.1.1 will require 2.1.1.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | ++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/ ++++


From redbird@rbisland.cx  Thu Jul 19 23:21:45 2001
From: redbird@rbisland.cx (Gordon Worley)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 18:21:45 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] cheol (Content entry, sort of)
In-Reply-To: <20010719205006.36BDD14A259@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010719205006.36BDD14A259@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <a05100301b77d08907e34@[10.0.1.46]>

At 10:50 PM +0200 7/19/01, Jack Jansen wrote:
>Gordon,
>I'm a bit worried about the GPL license, that will probably make it
>impossible to include it in the distribution, because there's a firm
>statement from the BDFL that Python is Open Source, and GPL-compatible
>Open Source at that, but not GPL itself.
>
>And, for one, if Python was GPL it would mean that I myself couldn't use
>Python to create our GRiNS multimedia authoring system...

Okay then, let's change it.  I'm going to have another version done 
later tonight/early tomorrow and I'm going to break it down into one 
version that can be called from a Mac interface and one that is a 
command line tool (basically, I'll take in or out the pattern 
matching).  At that time, I'll change the license.  Um, what would be 
good?  Python license okay (and if so can I just say that it's under 
the Python license or is there something fuller that I can put in)?

Also, I just noticed I made a typo in the subject line.  Oh well, I 
guess it will be staying there, since I don't want to screw up 
threading.  ;-)
-- 
Gordon Worley                     `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty
http://homepage.mac.com/redbird/   said, `it means just what I choose
redbird@rbisland.cx                it to mean--neither more nor less.'
PGP:  0xBBD3B003                                  --Lewis Carroll


From richard@richardgordon.net  Fri Jul 20 00:25:54 2001
From: richard@richardgordon.net (Richard Gordon)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 19:25:54 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Now this is pretty cool...
In-Reply-To: <20010719204610.E9473DA747@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010719204610.E9473DA747@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <v04205500b77d1a98879d@[192.168.0.2]>

At 10:46 PM +0200 7/19/01, Jack Jansen wrote:
>I don't like adding too much to site.py because (a) PythonInterpreter
>shouldn't really be used interactively (even though I do it all the
>time:-), IDE should be used for that and (b) site.py also gets loaded
>by every script, and all this stuff will make all scripts start up
>slower.

hmm, well I see your point about the speed issue. As far as the IDE 
goes, I don't mind using it at all and that's probably where this 
stuff should go, but there are times when it's just simpler to launch 
the interpreter and quickly test some things.

Out of curiosity, where does site.py figure into things when you 
build a standalone app? I guess what I'm really asking is how much 
baggage gets left behind when you create an application? I've only 
built one standalone and never bothered to benchmark it versus the 
.pyc version and was just wondering whether the actual impact on 
performance is significant. Thanks.


Richard Gordon
--------------------
Gordon Design
Web Design/Database Development
http://www.richardgordon.net



From rbl@hal.cwru.edu  Fri Jul 20 13:23:10 2001
From: rbl@hal.cwru.edu (Robin B. Lake)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 08:23:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problem with urllib.openurl()
Message-ID: <200107201223.IAA20772@hal.cwru.edu>

On a Mac G3, OS 8.6, Python 2.0.

For some time now, I've been using the myfile=urllib.openurl('URL path')
construct to suck data files off the Web.  Now I'm trying to use it to
get both historical and real-time snapshots of stock portfolio prices.

The historical data comes thru just fine, in that the Web site offers a
"Download" button that sends it over as a comma-delimited file.

The real-time data, however, does not make it into the Python-created
file "myfile".  I get HTML stuff showing in that file, but no data.  I
suspect that the problem arises in the Web site's use of cgi-bin to
create the price table on the fly.  

Anyone have similar experiences?  Is there a work-around?

Thank you,
Robin Lake
lake@cwru.edu


From jack@oratrix.nl  Fri Jul 20 14:17:44 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:17:44 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problem with urllib.openurl()
In-Reply-To: Message by "Robin B. Lake" <rbl@hal.cwru.edu> ,
 Fri, 20 Jul 2001 08:23:10 -0400 (EDT) , <200107201223.IAA20772@hal.cwru.edu>
Message-ID: <20010720131744.D5D12303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> For some time now, I've been using the myfile=urllib.openurl('URL path')
> construct to suck data files off the Web.  Now I'm trying to use it to
> get both historical and real-time snapshots of stock portfolio prices.
> [...]
> The real-time data, however, does not make it into the Python-created
> file "myfile".  I get HTML stuff showing in that file, but no data.  I
> suspect that the problem arises in the Web site's use of cgi-bin to
> create the price table on the fly.  

CGI or not on the server side shouldn't be a problem. A couple of things that 
would be a problem:
- If the data isn't normally displayed as-is but interpreted by, say, a java 
applet or a plugin or something. The "html stuff" you mention could well be 
something that starts the plugin. It might even be java or javascript code 
that gets the data. Why not post the html code here?
- There is a small possibility that the server-side looks at the browser type 
you're using and returns different info for explorer and netscape. If it only 
recognizes those two it could be that it returns nothing if your browser is 
not one of those. I've seen webpages do this:-( And, of course, urllib is 
neither Netscape nor Explorer.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From tom@othermedia.com  Fri Jul 20 15:57:25 2001
From: tom@othermedia.com (tom smith)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:57:25 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Reload() not working?
In-Reply-To: <20010720131744.D5D12303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <B77E0564.5548%tom@othermedia.com>

I'm not sure but in Carbon Python reload(module) doesn't seem to work. Or is
it me?

Am I right? I'm making changes in a module that don't seem to make any
difference.

Thanks

Tom



From tom@othermedia.com  Fri Jul 20 14:28:41 2001
From: tom@othermedia.com (tom smith)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 14:28:41 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problem with urllib.openurl()
In-Reply-To: <200107201223.IAA20772@hal.cwru.edu>
Message-ID: <B77DF098.5540%tom@othermedia.com>

> 
> On a Mac G3, OS 8.6, Python 2.0.
> 
> For some time now, I've been using the myfile=urllib.openurl('URL path')
> construct to suck data files off the Web.  Now I'm trying to use it to
> get both historical and real-time snapshots of stock portfolio prices.

There is also the problem of urllib.read() not getting all the data on macs
in particular... Jack gave me a snippet that helped...

def read_url_old(url):
    try:
        u = urllib.urlopen(url)
        rv = ''
        newdata = u.read()

        while newdata:
            rv = rv + newdata
            try:
                newdata = u.read()
            except:
                #print "error in read_url(" + url +")"
                raise
            
        u.close()
        return rv

Then there also is the problem that timeouts aren't handled by urllib, I've
found that botlib.py is quite useful.  Drop it in your pythonpath and
then...

Import botlib

def read_url(url, timeout=10.0):
   bot = botlib.UniBot()
    data = ''
    data = bot.fetch(url, timeout)
    data = botlib.strip_header(data)
    return data

If it is the problem with the browser, then writing the header line
shouldn't be too hard, but I haven't got round to doing that yet.

Hope this helps

tom


-- 
tom smith | tom@othermedia.com
http://www.othermedia.com/blog
tel 020 8541 5355  | fax 020 8541 5507
11 penrhyn road, kingston-upon-thames, london KT1 2BZ



From redbird@rbisland.cx  Fri Jul 20 18:51:58 2001
From: redbird@rbisland.cx (Gordon Worley)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:51:58 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] cheol (version 0.5)
Message-ID: <a05100301b77df11f6304@[10.0.1.46]>

Okay, here is the latest version.  This one will follow symlinks and 
prints verbose messages if you want (they aren't very pretty, but 
they get the info out there).  Also, I put it under the Python 
License, version 2.1, but since I've never used this license before, 
I hope I've done it the right way.

Now, it still needs a Mac interface if this is going to be really 
useful (for example, as it stands you can't use this in Classic). 
So, someone, please, let's collaborate.  I'll help you make the 
modifications to do pattern matching if needed, but I'll leave the 
GUI up to you.  I'm serious here, I'm not going to do the GUI myself, 
so either someone else does it or it won't get done at all.

On a side note, this code is pretty much complete, aside from maybe a 
better dosification algorithm (viz. a safe one) and cleaner verbosity.

Oh, finally, on tab conversions, the string objects have an expandtab 
method if I'm reading the documentation correctly, and a very simple 
regular expression should be able to detab, so maybe tomorrow I'll 
have a chtab program ready (it will basically be this code, but the 
part that changes line endings will change tabs instead).

#!/usr/bin/env python

"""
cheol:  change end of line character
Copyright (C) 2000-2001 Gordon Worley

This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
it under the terms of the Python License, version 2.1.

This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the
Python License, version 2.1 for more details.

For a copy of the Python License, version 2.1, visit
<http://www.python.org/>.

To contact me, please visit my Web site at <http://homepage.mac.com/
redbird/> or e-mail me at <redbird@rbisland.cx>.

#history

0.5 - added support for following links and verbosity.  Lot of work.
0.3.5 - removed pattern matching since not unixy
0.3 - added help and ability to convert to mac and dos.  Name changed
       to cheol.py from unixify.pl.
0.1 - added recursion, uses Jurgen Hermann's FileMorpher
0.0 - just converts the given files
"""

__version__ = "cheol 0.5, Copyright 2000-2001 Gordon Worley via the 
Python License, version 2.1.\nType -h for help"
#fn = filename

#this first part is not by me, but put right in this code
#so that everything can stay in one file :-)
#by Jurgen Hermann, from Python Cookbook (ASPN)

import os, string

def replaceFile(oldname, newname):
	""" Rename file 'oldname' to 'newname'.
	"""
	if os.name == 'nt' and os.path.exists(oldname):
		# POSIX rename does an atomic replace, WIN32 rename 
does not. :-(
		try:
			os.remove(newname)
		except OSError, exc:
			import errno
			if exc.errno != errno.ENOENT: raise exc

	# rename it
	os.rename(oldname, newname)


class FileMorpher:
	""" A class that enables a client to securely update an existing file,
		including the ability to make an automated backup version.
	"""

	def __init__(self, filename, **kw):
		""" The constructor takes the filename and some options.

			backup -- boolean indicating whether you want 
a backup file

				(default is yes)
		"""
		self.filename = filename
		self.do_backup = kw.get('backup', 0)

		self.stream = None
		self.basename, ext = os.path.splitext(self.filename)


	def __del__(self):
		if self.stream:
			# Remove open temp file
			self.__close()
			os.remove(self.__tempfile())


	def __tempfile(self):
		return self.basename + ".tmp"


	def __close(self):
		""" Close temp stream, if open.
		"""
		if self.stream:
			self.stream.close()
			self.stream = None


	def load(self):
		""" Load the content of the original file into a string and
			return it. All I/O exceptions are passed through.
		"""
		file = open(self.filename, "rt")
		try:
			content = file.read()
		finally:
			file.close()

		return content


	def save(self, content):
		""" Save new content, using a temporary file.
		"""
		file = self.opentemp()
		file.write(content)
		self.commit()


	def opentemp(self):
		""" Open a temporary file for writing and return an 
open stream.
		"""
		assert not self.stream, "Write stream already open"

		self.stream = open(self.__tempfile(), "wt")

		return self.stream


	def commit(self):
		""" Close the open temp stream and replace the original file,
			optionally making a backup copy.
		"""
		assert self.stream, "Write stream not open"

		# close temp file
		self.__close()

		# do optional backup and rename temp file to the correct name
		if self.do_backup:
			replaceFile(self.filename, self.basename + ".bak")
		replaceFile(self.__tempfile(), self.filename)

#end part not by me
#begin part by me

def convert(fn, mode, is_recv, follow_links, verbose):
	if is_recv:
		if os.path.isdir(fn) and not os.path.islink(fn):
			if verbose:
				print "%s/:" % fn
			os.chdir(fn)
			fns = os.listdir("./")
			for afn in fns:
				convert(afn, mode, is_recv, 
follow_links, verbose)
			os.chdir("..")
			if verbose:
				print "../:"
		elif os.path.isdir(fn) and os.path.islink(fn) and 
os.path.islink(fn) <= follow_links:
			jfn = os.readlink(fn)
			if verbose:
				print "%s/ (%s/):" % (fn, jfn)
			fns = os.listdir(fn)
			for afn in fns:
				convert(os.path.join(jfn, afn), mode, 
is_recv, follow_links, verbose)
			if verbose:
				print "../:"
	if not os.path.isdir(fn):
		if os.path.islink(fn) and os.path.islink(fn) <= follow_links:
			tmp = fn
			fn = os.readlink(fn)
			if verbose:
				print "converting %s (%s)" % (tmp, fn)
		elif verbose:
			print "converting %s" % fn
		f = FileMorpher(fn)
		temp = f.load()
		if mode == 1:
			temp = string.replace(temp, '\n\r', '\n')
			temp = string.replace(temp, '\r', '\n')
		elif mode == 0:
			temp = string.replace(temp, '\n\r', '\r')
			temp = string.replace(temp, '\n', '\r')
		elif mode == 2:
			#this code could be dangerous, but I don't do these
			#conversions often enough to care :-P
			temp = string.replace(temp, '\r', '\n')
			temp = string.replace(temp, '\n', '\n\r')
		stream = f.opentemp()
		stream.write(temp)
		f.commit()

help = """\
cheol:	Converts EOL characters

%s [options] <path ...>
  options:
    -r : recursive
    -l : follow links
    -v : verbose
    -m : macify line endings
    -u : unixify line endings
    -d : dosify line endings
    -h : print help
  path is a file or directory
"""

if __name__ == '__main__':
	import sys, getopt
	try:
		opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], "hlvmudr")
	except:
		print "That's not an option.  Type -h for help."
		sys.exit(1)
	mode = 1 #default is unix, 0 is mac, 2 is dos
	is_recv = 0 #default isn't recursive
	follow_links = 0 #default don't follow links
	verbose = 0
	for opt in opts:
		if opt[0] == "-r":
			is_recv = 1
		elif opt[0] == "-l":
			follow_links = 1
		elif opt[0] == "-v":
			verbose = 1
		elif opt[0] == "-m":
			mode = 0;
		elif opt[0] == "-u":
			mode = 1;
		elif opt[0] == "-d":
			mode = 2;
		elif opt[0] == "-h":
			print help % sys.argv[0]
			sys.exit(0)
	if not args:
		print __version__
	for arg in args:
		convert(arg, mode, is_recv, follow_links, verbose)
-- 
Gordon Worley                     `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty
http://homepage.mac.com/redbird/   said, `it means just what I choose
redbird@rbisland.cx                it to mean--neither more nor less.'
PGP:  0xBBD3B003                                  --Lewis Carroll


From jwblist@olympus.net  Fri Jul 20 23:02:08 2001
From: jwblist@olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:02:08 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Problem with urllib.openurl()
In-Reply-To: <20010720131744.D5D12303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010720131744.D5D12303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <p05101006b77e5a7cc618@[207.149.192.229]>

At 15:17 +0200 7/20/2001, Jack Jansen wrote:
>And, of course, urllib is
>neither Netscape nor Explorer.

Given the number of sites which insist on sniffing the browser, the ability
to lie about browser type might be a nice enhancement to urllib.  But
that's not a Mac thing.

  --John

-- 
John Baxter   jwblist@olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA


From redbird@rbisland.cx  Sat Jul 21 03:13:07 2001
From: redbird@rbisland.cx (Gordon Worley)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 22:13:07 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] cheol 0.5.1 and chtab 0.1
Message-ID: <a05100300b77e924664a4@[10.0.1.3]>

Okay, below is the diff file between cheol 0.5 and 0.5.1 so you can 
patch the source I sent out earlier.  Basically, it just adds support 
for long options (like --help) after reading up on getopt a little 
more.  Also, chtab is out.  It's basically cheol with the important 
parts changed to convert tabs/spaces instead of line endings.

Also, sorry about the largeness of these posts.  I'll just do diff 
files from now on and sometime next week I'll have both these scripts 
posted on my Web site.  Actually, now that I think about it, chtab 
could probably be a diff on cheol.  :-)  Oh well.

If anyone has feature ideas, please, send them my way (but keep in 
mind these are Unixy utility programs, so don't ask for them to clean 
the kitchen sink).  I think there may be a feature or two that could 
be added to chtab, but I'm not sure what, since I got it to do the 
conversions I would want it to do.

cheol0.5-0.5.1.diff:

22a23
>  0.5.1 - added support for long (--) options
31c32
< __version__ = "cheol 0.5, Copyright 2000-2001 Gordon Worley via the 
Python License, version 2.1.\nType -h for help"
---
>  __version__ = "cheol 0.5.1, Copyright 2000-2001 Gordon Worley via 
>the Python License, version 2.1.\nType -h for help"
195,198c196,199
<    -m : macify line endings
<    -u : unixify line endings
<    -d : dosify line endings
<    -h : print help
---
>     -m, --mac : macify line endings
>     -u, --unix : unixify line endings
>     -d, --dos : dosify line endings
>     -h, --help : print help
199a201,202
>
>  run with no options or args for version string
205c208
< 		opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], "hlvmudr")
---
>  		opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], "hlvmudr", 
>("help", "mac", "unix", "dos"))
220c223
< 		elif opt[0] == "-m":
---
>  		elif opt[0] == "-m" or opt[0] == "--mac":
222c225
< 		elif opt[0] == "-u":
---
>  		elif opt[0] == "-u" or opt[0] == "--unix":
224c227
< 		elif opt[0] == "-d":
---
>  		elif opt[0] == "-d" or opt[0] == "--dos":
226c229
< 		elif opt[0] == "-h":
---
>  		elif opt[0] == "-h" or opt[0] == "--help":
232c235
< 		convert(arg, mode, is_recv, follow_links, verbose)
\ No newline at end of file
---
>  		convert(arg, mode, is_recv, follow_links, verbose)


chtab 0.1:

#!/usr/bin/env python

"""
chtab:  tabs to spaces and spaces to tabs
Copyright (C) 2000-2001 Gordon Worley

This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
it under the terms of the Python License, version 2.1.

This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the
Python License, version 2.1 for more details.

For a copy of the Python License, version 2.1, visit
<http://www.python.org/>.

To contact me, please visit my Web site at <http://homepage.mac.com/
redbird/> or e-mail me at <redbird@rbisland.cx>.

#history

0.1 - fixed regexen
0.0 - based on cheol.py, but puts in regexen to convert tabs/spaces
"""

__version__ = "chtab 0.1, Copyright 2000-2001 Gordon Worley via the 
Python License, version 2.1.\nType -h for help"
#fn = filename

#this first part is not by me, but put right in this code
#so that everything can stay in one file :-)
#by Jurgen Hermann, from Python Cookbook (ASPN)

import os, string

def replaceFile(oldname, newname):
	""" Rename file 'oldname' to 'newname'.
	"""
	if os.name == 'nt' and os.path.exists(oldname):
		# POSIX rename does an atomic replace, WIN32 rename 
does not. :-(
		try:
			os.remove(newname)
		except OSError, exc:
			import errno
			if exc.errno != errno.ENOENT: raise exc

	# rename it
	os.rename(oldname, newname)


class FileMorpher:
	""" A class that enables a client to securely update an existing file,
		including the ability to make an automated backup version.
	"""

	def __init__(self, filename, **kw):
		""" The constructor takes the filename and some options.

			backup -- boolean indicating whether you want 
a backup file

				(default is yes)
		"""
		self.filename = filename
		self.do_backup = kw.get('backup', 0)

		self.stream = None
		self.basename, ext = os.path.splitext(self.filename)


	def __del__(self):
		if self.stream:
			# Remove open temp file
			self.__close()
			os.remove(self.__tempfile())


	def __tempfile(self):
		return self.basename + ".tmp"


	def __close(self):
		""" Close temp stream, if open.
		"""
		if self.stream:
			self.stream.close()
			self.stream = None


	def load(self):
		""" Load the content of the original file into a string and
			return it. All I/O exceptions are passed through.
		"""
		file = open(self.filename, "rt")
		try:
			content = file.read()
		finally:
			file.close()

		return content


	def save(self, content):
		""" Save new content, using a temporary file.
		"""
		file = self.opentemp()
		file.write(content)
		self.commit()


	def opentemp(self):
		""" Open a temporary file for writing and return an 
open stream.
		"""
		assert not self.stream, "Write stream already open"

		self.stream = open(self.__tempfile(), "wt")

		return self.stream


	def commit(self):
		""" Close the open temp stream and replace the original file,
			optionally making a backup copy.
		"""
		assert self.stream, "Write stream not open"

		# close temp file
		self.__close()

		# do optional backup and rename temp file to the correct name
		if self.do_backup:
			replaceFile(self.filename, self.basename + ".bak")
		replaceFile(self.__tempfile(), self.filename)

#end part not by me
#begin part by me

import re

def convert(fn, mode, is_recv, follow_links, verbose, tab_width, all):
	if is_recv:
		if os.path.isdir(fn) and not os.path.islink(fn):
			if verbose:
				print "%s/:" % fn
			os.chdir(fn)
			fns = os.listdir("./")
			for afn in fns:
				convert(afn, mode, is_recv, 
follow_links, verbose, tab_width, all)
			os.chdir("..")
			if verbose:
				print "../:"
		elif os.path.isdir(fn) and os.path.islink(fn) and 
os.path.islink(fn) <= follow_links:
			jfn = os.readlink(fn)
			if verbose:
				print "%s/ (%s/):" % (fn, jfn)
			fns = os.listdir(fn)
			for afn in fns:
				convert(os.path.join(jfn, afn), mode, 
is_recv, follow_links, verbose, tab_width, all)
			if verbose:
				print "../:"
	if not os.path.isdir(fn):
		if os.path.islink(fn) and os.path.islink(fn) <= follow_links:
			tmp = fn
			fn = os.readlink(fn)
			if verbose:
				print "converting %s (%s)" % (tmp, fn)
		elif verbose:
			print "converting %s" % fn
		f = FileMorpher(fn)
		temp = f.load()
		if mode == 0:
			if all:
				temp = re.sub(r" {" + `tab_width` + 
r"}", r"\t", temp)
			else:
				patt = re.compile(r"^ {" + 
`tab_width` + r"}", re.M)
				temp, count = patt.subn(r"\t", temp)
				i = 1
				while count > 0:
					subpatt = re.compile(r"^\t{" 
+ `i` + r"} {" + `tab_width` + r"}", re.M)
					temp, count = 
subpatt.subn("\t"*(i+1), temp)
					i += 1
		elif mode == 1:
			temp = temp.expandtabs(tab_width)
		stream = f.opentemp()
		stream.write(temp)
		f.commit()

help = """\
chtab:  En/detabs files

%s [options] <path ...>
  options:
    -r : recursive
    -l : follow links
    -v : verbose
    -e, --entab : turn spaces into tabs (default)
    -d, --detab : turn tabs into spaces
    -t <num> : number of spaces per tab (default is 4)
    -a : act on all spaces (works with --entab, default is to just affect
		   those spaces at the beginning of lines)
    -h, --help : print help
  path is a file or directory

run with no options or args for version string
"""

if __name__ == '__main__':
	import sys, getopt
	try:
		opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], "ahlvedrt:", 
("entab", "detab", "help"))
	except:
		print "That's not an option.  Type -h for help."
		sys.exit(1)
	mode = 0 #default is to entab
	all = 0 #default is to just do tabs at start of lines
	tab_width = 4
	is_recv = 0 #default isn't recursive
	follow_links = 0 #default don't follow links
	verbose = 0
	for opt in opts:
		if opt[0] == "-r":
			is_recv = 1
		elif opt[0] == "-a":
			all = 1
		elif opt[0] == "-l":
			follow_links = 1
		elif opt[0] == "-v":
			verbose = 1
		elif opt[0] == "-t":
			tab_width = int(opt[1])
		elif opt[0] == "-e" or opt[0] == "--entab":
			mode = 0;
		elif opt[0] == "-d" or opt[0] == "--detab":
			mode = 1;
		elif opt[0] == "-h" or opt[0] == "--help":
			print help % sys.argv[0]
			sys.exit(0)
	if not args:
		print __version__
	for arg in args:
		convert(arg, mode, is_recv, follow_links, verbose, 
tab_width, all)

-- 
Gordon Worley                     `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty
http://homepage.mac.com/redbird/   said, `it means just what I choose
redbird@rbisland.cx                it to mean--neither more nor less.'
PGP:  0xBBD3B003                                  --Lewis Carroll


From redbird@mac.com  Sat Jul 21 15:56:39 2001
From: redbird@mac.com (Gordon Worley)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 10:56:39 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [offtopic] e-mail woes
Message-ID: <a05100301b77f46bd5d1d@[10.0.1.6]>

Um, I know I just posted saying to e-mail me if you had some 
reasonable feature requests for cheol and chtab, but it seems that 
things with .cx have messed up again.  We've been having trouble for 
about a month now, but nic.cx seemed to get e-mail working again for 
a little bit, but yesterday it went down again.  :-(  Anyway, the 
point is you can send those feature requests/bug reports/flames ;-) 
to redbird@mac.com.
-- 
Gordon Worley                     `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty
http://homepage.mac.com/redbird/   said, `it means just what I choose
redbird@rbisland.cx                it to mean--neither more nor less.'
PGP:  0xBBD3B003                                  --Lewis Carroll


From draayer@surfglobal.net  Sat Jul 21 22:14:21 2001
From: draayer@surfglobal.net (Dean & Yang Draayer)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:14:21 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Now this is pretty cool...
Message-ID: <E15O43f-0006nl-00@mail.python.org>

> I think I would prefer it if IDE provided a hook into this, or if
> someone donated an IDE script for this (how about something that 
looks
> up help on the current selection, and if there is no selection shows 
a
> dialog box in which you can type the thing you want to look up?).

I came up with the following script that seems to work well in the 
Scripts menu of Python IDE.

#=============================================
# 'Online Help....py'
#
#   Provides access to the on-line help
#   generated by the pydoc module.
#
#   This script is intended for use in the
#   Python IDE Scripts menu (MacPython only).
#=============================================

if sys.platform != 'mac':
    sys.exit("This script works only in MacPython.")

if __name__ == '__main__':
    from EasyDialogs import AskString
    from pydoc import Helper
    import sys

    helper = Helper(sys.stdin, sys.stdout)
    topic = AskString('Help topic:', '')
    if topic != None:   # user didn't cancel
        if topic == '':
            helper.intro()
        else:
            helper.help(topic)

#=== end 'Online Help....py' ===


It doesn't do the 'current selection' trick - not yet anyway.  I'll 
look into adding this feature.  If this works to everyone's 
satisfaction, it might be a good idea to incorporate this in the Help 
menu instead of the Scripts menu.

One minor annoyance: when the AskString dialog comes up, the cursor 
remains a watch cursor.  It really should revert to an arrow cursor.

Cheers,
Dean Draayer
draayer@surfglobal.net



From draayer@surfglobal.net  Sat Jul 21 22:14:26 2001
From: draayer@surfglobal.net (Dean & Yang Draayer)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:14:26 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: batch convert line endings
Message-ID: <E15O43n-0006nq-00@mail.python.org>

> What are people using to batch convert folders full of text files 
> that may have DOS or UNIX line endings to Mac line endings? I was 
> using Cyclone, but it is a pain in the butt as it prompts for each 
> file and also it does a lot more than convert line endings so it 
> is not really optimized just for that. I would love a little 
> droplet like Drop=EFBB or Drop RENAME, etc. that i could put on my 
> desk top and then drag and drop the folder on to it and have all 
> the files changed to Mac line endings. Of course, Mac to UNIX aor 
> DOS line endings would be good too! in case you wanted to send a 
> folder of stuff from your MAC to a Windoze or UNIX user.
> 
> cheers,
> -kp--


I use the following script, saved as an applet.  It only supports 
conversion to Mac-style endings.  It handles drag-and-drop from the 
Finder nicely - any combination of files and folders can be dropped on=
 it. 
 If double-clicked, it prompts for a file to convert.  Folders are 
traversed recursively.  Only files of type 'TEXT' are examined, and=
 only 
those showing non-Mac line endings are actually modified - their=
 pathnames 
are printed so you can see which ones were changed.  Modification=
 dates 
are preserved.  Mixed-style line endings with the same file are=
 handled - 
i.e. the conversion decision is made on a line-by-line basis, rather=
 than 
based on the first line only.  The entire file is read into memory in=
 one 
fell swoop, so large files will be skipped if there's not enough=
 memory.

BEWARE - the original files are overwritten without backing them up!  
(This really needs to be fixed.)  Use at your own risk!

#=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
# MacLineEndings.py
#   Author: Dean Draayer
#   Date: 16 June 2000
#-------------------------------------------------------
# Converts TEXT files to use mac-style line endings.
# CRLF pairs and lone LFs are changed to CRs.
# Usage: Drop folders and individual files on the applet
#   to convert them.  Folders are walked recursively.
#=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

import string
from os import path
from sys import argv, exit
from macfs import FSSpec, StandardGetFile

#--- globals ---
numItems =3D 0        # count of number of files actually modified

CR =3D chr(13)
LF =3D chr(10)
CRLF =3D CR + LF


def handleNoArgs():
    (fs, OK) =3D StandardGetFile()
    if OK:                          # user selected something
        return [fs.as_pathname()]   # simulate a one-arg drop
    else:
        exit()                      # user cancelled


def startUp(theArgs):
    print "Running %s..." % path.split(argv[0])[1]


def finishUp(theArgs):
    print "...done. Modified %d files." % numItems


def doArg(anArg):
    if path.isdir(anArg):
        path.walk(anArg, doArg_aux, None)
    else:
        doItem(anArg)

def doArg_aux(arg, parPath, fNames):
    for fName in fNames:
        doItem(path.join(parPath, fName))


def doItem(aPath):
    global numItems

    if path.isdir(aPath):
        return
    fs =3D FSSpec(aPath)
    (fCreat, fType) =3D fs.GetCreatorType()
    if (fType <> 'TEXT'):
        return

    fp =3D open(aPath, 'rb')
    try:
        try:
            data =3D fp.read()
        finally:
            fp.close()
    except MemoryError:
        from MacOS import SysBeep
        SysBeep()
        print "*** FILE TOO BIG! ***  Ignoring", aPath
        return

    if (string.find(data, LF) =3D=3D -1):   # nothing to do if there=
 are no LFs
        return

    print aPath

    # Note: It's important to replace CRLFs before LFs!!!
    data =3D string.replace(data, CRLF, CR)
    data =3D string.replace(data, LF, CR)
    
    savedDates =3D fs.GetDates()          # preserve modification date
    fp =3D open(aPath, 'wb')
    try:
        fp.write(data)
    finally:
        fp.close()
    fs.SetDates(savedDates[0], savedDates[1], savedDates[2])

    numItems =3D numItems + 1


def run(theArgs =3D None):
    global numItems
    numItems =3D 0

    if not theArgs:
        theArgs =3D handleNoArgs()    # handle no-argument situation

    startUp(theArgs)                # perform pre-processing
    map(doArg, theArgs)             # process each argument
    finishUp(theArgs)               # perform post-processing


if __name__ =3D=3D "__main__":
    run(argv[1:])

#=3D=3D=3D end MacLineEndings.py =3D=3D=3D

Sorry about the length of this post!

Dean Draayer
draayer@surfglobal.net



From draayer@surfglobal.net  Sun Jul 22 04:45:41 2001
From: draayer@surfglobal.net (Dean Draayer)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:45:41 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Saving from the PythonInterpeter.out window
Message-ID: <E15OAAN-0003m8-00@mail.python.org>

How does one save the contents of the PythonInterpreter.out window?  
There's a File>Save command, but it doesn't bring up a dialog to let 
me say where to save it - and I can't find where/whether it actually 
does save it.

It would be nice to have a Save As... command instead.  (I may be 
imagining this, but I have a vague impression that the interpreter DID 
used to bring up a save dialog.)

Dean Draayer



From draayer@surfglobal.net  Sun Jul 22 04:45:45 2001
From: draayer@surfglobal.net (Dean Draayer)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:45:45 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] sys.exit() and Python IDE
Message-ID: <E15OAAR-0003mD-00@mail.python.org>

When a script running in the IDE calls sys.exit(), the IDE puts up a 
traceback.  I don't think it should, since sys.exit() is an "accepted" 
way to terminate.  In particular, a script run from the Scripts menu 
must either avoid using sys.exit() or else risk terminating with a 
traceback even if all went according to plan.

To be in line with the description of the SystemExit exception in 
Python Library Reference, it seems that IDE should wrap its 
script-running code within a try-except block, perhaps somewhat like:

    try:
        # 'run script' code here
    except SystemExit, arg:
        if arg.code != None and type(arg.code) != type(0):
            sys.stderr.write("%s\n" % arg)
        pass

Should something like this be done?  Or do people WANT to get the 
traceback when sys.exit() is encountered in the IDE?

Dean Draayer



From just@letterror.com  Sun Jul 22 10:26:04 2001
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:26:04 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] sys.exit() and Python IDE
In-Reply-To: <E15OAAR-0003mD-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <20010722113512-r01010700-6c05faf9-0910-010c@213.84.27.177>

Dean Draayer wrote:

> Should something like this be done? 

Your proposal soulds reasonable. If you look at PyEdit.py: KeyboardInterrupt
errors are already silenced in much the same way.

> Or do people WANT to get the 
> traceback when sys.exit() is encountered in the IDE?

I guess the reason I've never fixed this is because I *never* use sys.exit() or
raise SystemExit: I simply consider it bad style...

Just


From tjlahey@cgl.uwaterloo.ca  Sun Jul 22 17:30:39 2001
From: tjlahey@cgl.uwaterloo.ca (Tim Lahey)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 12:30:39 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
Message-ID: <20010722163056.GTQ10608.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@localhost>

All,

I've had the concept of python as a framework percolating in my
head for some time now and I'd like to share some ideas for
feedback.

1. Build the core python distribution as a framework to be placed
in /Library/Frameworks. Allows for easy installation and
accessible for all Applications.

2. Set the PYTHONPATH to search the ~/Library/Python then
/Library/Python for additional modules. Basically, they would
act as local and global site-packages directories.

3. Create a command-line executable in /usr/local/bin to work
like the current interpreter.

4. Create a PythonInterpreter View Interface Builder Pallet so
applications can embed the interpreter inside the application
along with a place for user interaction.

5. Develop a Aqua-based GUI interface. Given the problems
people have had using PyObjC we may want to use Carbon.
Interface Builder supports Carbon so, people could layout
their UI using IB.

6. Being porting some of the other python modules to the new
UI. I'm thinking of various ones such as PIL and PyOpenGL.

What does everyone think ? This is sort of part of my grand
dream of developing a python-based MATLAB replacement
for OS X.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to contribute much until September
as I first have to finish my coding for my thesis. I'm not sure how
much help I can be on the first three parts as my knowledge of the
guts of python is minimal but, I'm willing to help as much as I can
and I can certainly help with 4, 5, and 6.

Cheers,

Tim Lahey


From hummelsean@mac.com  Sun Jul 22 21:52:11 2001
From: hummelsean@mac.com (Sean Hummel)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 13:52:11 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: <20010722163056.GTQ10608.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@localhost>
Message-ID: <B7808AF9.755D%hummelsean@mac.com>

I've been thinking about this too.  However I thought possibly a better
mechanism would be to make Python a Scripting Component, so that anywhere
you could use Applescript, you could instead use Python.     I think this
would be easier for a lot of reasons, primarily because it is so easy to
support Applescript in your applications.

I like your mechanism too, but it seems it would require a lot of work.  (Of
course so does a scripting component.)

Perhaps both types of solutions are needed, because applications tend to
vary so much.

> From: Tim Lahey <tjlahey@cgl.uwaterloo.ca>
> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 12:30:39 -0400
> To: pythonmac-sig@python.org
> Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
> 
> All,
> 
> I've had the concept of python as a framework percolating in my
> head for some time now and I'd like to share some ideas for
> feedback.
> 
> 1. Build the core python distribution as a framework to be placed
> in /Library/Frameworks. Allows for easy installation and
> accessible for all Applications.
> 
> 2. Set the PYTHONPATH to search the ~/Library/Python then
> /Library/Python for additional modules. Basically, they would
> act as local and global site-packages directories.
> 
> 3. Create a command-line executable in /usr/local/bin to work
> like the current interpreter.
> 
> 4. Create a PythonInterpreter View Interface Builder Pallet so
> applications can embed the interpreter inside the application
> along with a place for user interaction.
> 
> 5. Develop a Aqua-based GUI interface. Given the problems
> people have had using PyObjC we may want to use Carbon.
> Interface Builder supports Carbon so, people could layout
> their UI using IB.
> 
> 6. Being porting some of the other python modules to the new
> UI. I'm thinking of various ones such as PIL and PyOpenGL.
> 
> What does everyone think ? This is sort of part of my grand
> dream of developing a python-based MATLAB replacement
> for OS X.
> 
> Unfortunately, I won't be able to contribute much until September
> as I first have to finish my coding for my thesis. I'm not sure how
> much help I can be on the first three parts as my knowledge of the
> guts of python is minimal but, I'm willing to help as much as I can
> and I can certainly help with 4, 5, and 6.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tim Lahey
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig



From jack@oratrix.nl  Sun Jul 22 22:11:47 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 23:11:47 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: Message by Sean Hummel <hummelsean@mac.com> ,
 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 13:52:11 -0700 , <B7808AF9.755D%hummelsean@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20010722211152.E526C14B62D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

I'm working on more-or-less what Tim suggests, I'll answer his message
fuller later this evening (or week), I'd like to finsih 2.1.1 first
(announcement later tonight, hopefully).

Making Python a scripting component is something I looked into a
couple of years ago (maybe even in the 68k days) but I gave up because
at that time scripting components had to be in Yet Another Funny
Shared Library Format. I don't remember the format (ASLM? Component
Manager? Apple is now to about its tenth format, unless we count cdefs
and chooser plugins too, which would make it 20 or so) but insofar as
I was able to understand the documentation there were enough
limitations in the format that I didn't see an easy way to do Python
in it.

If that has changed, and if you can load PythonCore from a scripting
component it shouldn't be all that difficult to create a stub
component that calls the relevant parts of PythonCore.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Sun Jul 22 23:02:16 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:02:16 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1.1 final candidate 1 available
Message-ID: <20010722220221.F118C14B62D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Folks,
the first Final Candidate (and hopefully the last) for MacPython 2.1.1
is available in http://www.cwi.nl/ftp/jack/python/mac/newer/ (or in
ftp://ftp.cwi.nl/pub/jack/python/mac/newer/ which is the same place
thru ftp).

This is a bugfix release only, so there's really no reason not to
switch. At least: that's what you're going to find out for me in the
next few days:-)

Aside from all the fixes to the core (see www.python.org for those)
the main mac-spcific fixes are
- sys.path doesn't lose it's case anymore. Moreover, the problems
people had with non-ascii characters in their path should be either
solved or at least (for the Japanese, I'm afraid) result in an error
message. If people can try non-ascii chars (esp. Japanese or another
non-8-bit charset) in their path I'd be delighted to hear the results.
- MacOS 8 users should be able to use IDE (and the Fm module) again.

Please don't advertise this distribution too wide, as I had to use the
Oratrix Vise license for it (my MacPython free Vise license had expired and
I haven't received a new one yet, the final distribution will have to
wait until it comes in, I'm afraid).
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | ++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/ ++++


From jwblist@olympus.net  Mon Jul 23 05:46:40 2001
From: jwblist@olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 21:46:40 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: <B7808AF9.755D%hummelsean@mac.com>
References: <B7808AF9.755D%hummelsean@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p05101004b7815be4aacd@[207.149.192.229]>

At 13:52 -0700 7/22/2001, Sean Hummel wrote:
>I've been thinking about this too.  However I thought possibly a better
>mechanism would be to make Python a Scripting Component, so that anywhere
>you could use Applescript, you could instead use Python.     I think this
>would be easier for a lot of reasons, primarily because it is so easy to
>support Applescript in your applications.

The attempt to do this with MacPerl failed (Python may be more amenable to it).

And I have no idea what complexities there are in Mac OS X--actually it
could be easier in Mac OS X.

   --John


-- 
John Baxter   jwblist@olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA


From jwblist@olympus.net  Mon Jul 23 05:50:55 2001
From: jwblist@olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 21:50:55 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: <20010722211152.E526C14B62D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010722211152.E526C14B62D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <p05101005b7815ce7e76a@[207.149.192.229]>

At 23:11 +0200 7/22/2001, Jack Jansen wrote:
>I don't remember the format (ASLM? Component
>Manager?

Component manager.  Which while older than ASLM (it appeared with QuickTime
in System 6 time) has outlasted ASLM (Open Transport was recently (finally)
rewritten away from ASLM).

Mac OS X is a different ballgame...I don't know whether Component Manager
found its way in or was replaced.

  --john
-- 
John Baxter   jwblist@olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA


From jack@oratrix.nl  Mon Jul 23 09:39:25 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:39:25 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: Message by John W Baxter <jwblist@olympus.net> ,
 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 21:46:40 -0700 , <p05101004b7815be4aacd@[207.149.192.229]>
Message-ID: <20010723083929.57AEA303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> The attempt to do this with MacPerl failed (Python may be more amenable to it).

John,
do you know why it failed? Or do you know people who were involved, or mailing 
list archives, etc?
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From jack@oratrix.nl  Mon Jul 23 09:59:48 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:59:48 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: Message by Tim Lahey <tjlahey@cgl.uwaterloo.ca> ,
 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 12:30:39 -0400 , <20010722163056.GTQ10608.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@localhost>
Message-ID: <20010723085948.E2C75303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

Ok, time for some detailed discussion.

> 1. Build the core python distribution as a framework to be placed
> in /Library/Frameworks. Allows for easy installation and
> accessible for all Applications.

One problem here is that /Library/Frameworks/Python will look different from 
what unix-pythoneers are used to. It'll be similar, but different. I'd like to 
know whether its possible to but a "normal" python installation in here (say, 
in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/python) and put the framework 
mumbojumbo in symlinks. Hmm, yes, the existing frameworks already do that, so 
symlinking should be fine.

Does anyone know what the minimum contents of a framework are?

Also, the only way I've found to create frameworks is through Project Builder. 
Is there a command line program to do it as well, or should I hand-craft it?

> 2. Set the PYTHONPATH to search the ~/Library/Python then
> /Library/Python for additional modules. Basically, they would
> act as local and global site-packages directories.

I think I'd prefer the global site-packages to live in Lib/site-packages in 
/Library/Framework/Python.framework/ just so we're not accused of changing 
things without reason (by the rest of the unix-pythoneers). The 
~/Library/Python idea I like.

> 3. Create a command-line executable in /usr/local/bin to work
> like the current interpreter.

Yep. 

> 4. Create a PythonInterpreter View Interface Builder Pallet so
> applications can embed the interpreter inside the application
> along with a place for user interaction.

Oops, buzzword overload. I know the various words, but the stringing together 
doesn't result in added meaning. Could you expand on this a bit?

> 5. Develop a Aqua-based GUI interface. Given the problems
> people have had using PyObjC we may want to use Carbon.
> Interface Builder supports Carbon so, people could layout
> their UI using IB.

I think we can do it so that people could do both, but initially I think 
Carbon is the way to go. I have most of the MacPython toolbox modules ported 
(at least: they compile and import), I'm working on the few basic necesseties 
we need to put Carbon and BSD together (FSRefs, CFString and friends) and on 
replacements for things we're going to lose (MLTE to replace Waste; that is, 
unless someone wants to invest some time into getting Waste to run under 
Mach-O Carbon. This would be *very* welcome as lack of Waste is the main thing 
that stops us from starting on IDE).

> 6. Being porting some of the other python modules to the new
> UI. I'm thinking of various ones such as PIL and PyOpenGL.

PIL should be trivial, PyOpenGL also not too difficult.


Most of what I've done so far is in the repository already, the one exception 
being the setup.py file (which will build all the toolbox modules and such). I 
can mail it to people who want to play with this stuff, and I'll also try and 
think of a way to put it into the repository without overmuch bothering people 
who use OSX as a unix box.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de  Mon Jul 23 10:35:55 2001
From: Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de (Aureli Soria Frisch)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:35:55 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Reload() not working?
In-Reply-To: <B77E0564.5548%tom@othermedia.com>
References: <20010720131744.D5D12303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <l03010d01b7819f7d9d9b@[153.97.92.109]>

At 15:57 Uhr +0100 20.07.2001, tom smith wrote:
>I'm not sure but in Carbon Python reload(module) doesn't seem to work. Or is
>it me?
>
>Am I right? I'm making changes in a module that don't seem to make any
>difference.

I have a similar problem when defining a class. If I run the script and
then change some method, doing reload() does not actualize the method.

However I only suppose that I am using Carbon Python... What does it mean?
Using MacPython with the CarbonLib installed in the computer, or is it
something more? Sorry about this basic non-understanding...

Regards

#################################
Aureli Soria Frisch
Fraunhofer IPK
Dept. Pattern Recognition

post: Pascalstr. 8-9, 10587 Berlin, Germany
e-mail:aureli@ipk.fhg.de
fon: +49 30 39006-150
fax: +49 30 3917517
#################################




From jack@oratrix.nl  Mon Jul 23 11:05:54 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:05:54 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Reload() not working?
In-Reply-To: Message by Aureli Soria Frisch <Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de> ,
 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:35:55 +0200 , <l03010d01b7819f7d9d9b@[153.97.92.109]>
Message-ID: <20010723100622.B17B0303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> I have a similar problem when defining a class. If I run the script and
> then change some method, doing reload() does not actualize the method.

Note that this is expected behaviour. If you create an object with the old 
module and then reload the module the old object will still refer to the old 
module. If you think about how Python objects work this is no more than 
logical: there's no way Python can go into the object and change its class 
(and thereby its methods) on the fly. Only newly created objects will get the 
new class and methods.

If I'm misunderstanding you and objects that are created after you've reloaded 
the module also see the old method then that's indeed a bug, so please let me 
know.

Tom: could it be that this is your problem too?
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From doug@sonosphere.com  Mon Jul 23 12:23:09 2001
From: doug@sonosphere.com (Doug Wyatt)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 07:23:09 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Component Mgr (was: Python.framework under OS X)
In-Reply-To: <p05101005b7815ce7e76a@[207.149.192.229]>
Message-ID: <18B743BB-7F5D-11D5-A7B9-00039301A6E6@>

On Monday, July 23, 2001, at 12:50 AM, John W Baxter wrote:
> At 23:11 +0200 7/22/2001, Jack Jansen wrote:
>> I don't remember the format (ASLM? Component
>> Manager?
>
> Component manager.  Which while older than ASLM (it appeared with 
> QuickTime
> in System 6 time) has outlasted ASLM (Open Transport was recently 
> (finally)
> rewritten away from ASLM).
>
> Mac OS X is a different ballgame...I don't know whether Component 
> Manager
> found its way in or was replaced.

Everything in /System/Library/Components contains Components; the 
Component Manager is part of the CarbonCore subframework of CoreServices.

Doug

--
Doug Wyatt
work:  dwyatt@apple.com  (CoreAudio)
personal:  doug@sonosphere.com   http://www.sonosphere.com

"When you discard arrogance, complexity, and a few other things that get 
in
  the way, sooner or later you will discover that simple, childlike, and
  mysterious secret known to those of the Uncarved Block: Life is Fun."
	-- The Tao of Pooh



From Benjamin.Schollnick@usa.xerox.com  Mon Jul 23 12:55:48 2001
From: Benjamin.Schollnick@usa.xerox.com (Schollnick, Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 07:55:48 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Reload() not working?
Message-ID: <E2D1934575D1D411973D00508BB02F173022E8@usa0129ms1.ess.mc.xerox.com>

If memory serves me correctly, I believe this is normal behavior?

I remember reading somewhere that Reload() actually reloads the module
in memory, but does not "overwrite" existing objects, variables, etc.

In other words, if you were to erase the object that you are using, and
then do a reload, then recreate the object, you should see the updated
module.

I haven't tried this myself, so take it with a grain of salt...

		- Benjamin

-----Original Message-----
From: Aureli Soria Frisch [mailto:Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de]
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 5:36 AM
To: tom smith
Cc: Jack Jansen; pythonmac-sig@python.org
Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Reload() not working?


At 15:57 Uhr +0100 20.07.2001, tom smith wrote:
>I'm not sure but in Carbon Python reload(module) doesn't seem to work. Or
is
>it me?
>
>Am I right? I'm making changes in a module that don't seem to make any
>difference.

I have a similar problem when defining a class. If I run the script and
then change some method, doing reload() does not actualize the method.

However I only suppose that I am using Carbon Python... What does it mean?
Using MacPython with the CarbonLib installed in the computer, or is it
something more? Sorry about this basic non-understanding...

Regards

#################################
Aureli Soria Frisch
Fraunhofer IPK
Dept. Pattern Recognition

post: Pascalstr. 8-9, 10587 Berlin, Germany
e-mail:aureli@ipk.fhg.de
fon: +49 30 39006-150
fax: +49 30 3917517
#################################



_______________________________________________
Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig


From doug@sonosphere.com  Mon Jul 23 13:09:53 2001
From: doug@sonosphere.com (Doug Wyatt)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 08:09:53 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: <20010723085948.E2C75303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <9F79FBFA-7F63-11D5-A7B9-00039301A6E6@>

On Monday, July 23, 2001, at 04:59 AM, Jack Jansen wrote:
> Ok, time for some detailed discussion.
>
>> 1. Build the core python distribution as a framework to be placed
>> in /Library/Frameworks. Allows for easy installation and
>> accessible for all Applications.
>
> One problem here is that /Library/Frameworks/Python will look different 
> from
> what unix-pythoneers are used to. It'll be similar, but different. I'd 
> like to
> know whether its possible to but a "normal" python installation in here 
> (say,
> in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/python) and put the framework
> mumbojumbo in symlinks. Hmm, yes, the existing frameworks already do 
> that, so
> symlinking should be fine.
>
> Does anyone know what the minimum contents of a framework are?

Probably just Versions/A/Resources/Info.plist and the executable.

> Also, the only way I've found to create frameworks is through Project 
> Builder.
> Is there a command line program to do it as well, or should I 
> hand-craft it?

You can build frameworks manually, one file at a time.  There's the 
requisite file and folder structure including the executable which is 
simply a dynamic library.  You can snoop on how Project Builder does its 
work by turning on the detailed log level preference (under Building).

Doug

--
Doug Wyatt
work:  dwyatt@apple.com  (CoreAudio)
personal:  doug@sonosphere.com   http://www.sonosphere.com

"There is real magic in enthusiasm.
  It spells the difference between mediocrity and accomplishment."
	-- Norman Vincent Peale


--
Doug Wyatt
work:  dwyatt@apple.com  (CoreAudio)
personal:  doug@sonosphere.com   http://www.sonosphere.com

"to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best night and
  day to make you like everybody else means to fight the hardest battle
  any human being can fight and never stop fighting."
	-- e. e. cummings



From Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de  Mon Jul 23 15:47:12 2001
From: Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de (Aureli Soria Frisch)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:47:12 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Reload() not working?
In-Reply-To: <20010723100622.B17B0303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
References: Message by Aureli Soria Frisch
 <Aureli.Soria_Frisch@ipk.fhg.de> ,	     Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:35:55 +0200 ,
 <l03010d01b7819f7d9d9b@[153.97.92.109]>
Message-ID: <l03010d04b781e8f6e220@[153.97.92.109]>

At 12:05 Uhr +0200 23.07.2001, Jack Jansen wrote:

>Note that this is expected behaviour. If you create an object with the old
>module and then reload the module the old object will still refer to the old
>module. If you think about how Python objects work this is no more than
>logical: there's no way Python can go into the object and change its class
>(and thereby its methods) on the fly. Only newly created objects will get the
>new class and methods.

Ok! The methods are actualized when the new object is created after the
reload().

Thanks!

#################################
Aureli Soria Frisch
Fraunhofer IPK
Dept. Pattern Recognition

post: Pascalstr. 8-9, 10587 Berlin, Germany
e-mail:aureli@ipk.fhg.de
fon: +49 30 39006-150
fax: +49 30 3917517
#################################




From moehl@akaflieg.extern.tu-berlin.de  Mon Jul 23 19:29:10 2001
From: moehl@akaflieg.extern.tu-berlin.de (Torsten Sadowski)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:29:10 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Howto set CW command line option?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0107232024490.29157-100000@akaflieg.extern.tu-berlin.de>

Hi,
I=B4m trying to build wxpython and for this I need to set "-bool on" and
"-prefix wx_cw.h". Which distutils variable is the one to use? I had no
success with "defines" and "cflags" so far.=20

-Torsten

P.S. wxpython compiles in major parts. Maybe it will work.



From jwblist@olympus.net  Mon Jul 23 21:09:29 2001
From: jwblist@olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:09:29 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: <20010723083929.57AEA303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010723083929.57AEA303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <p05101000b782338821ee@[207.149.192.229]>

At 10:39 +0200 7/23/2001, Jack Jansen wrote:
>> The attempt to do this with MacPerl failed (Python may be more amenable
>>to it).
>
>John,
>do you know why it failed? Or do you know people who were involved, or mailing
>list archives, etc?

This is back in what counts as pre-history in computer terms.  All I can
see in the email I have readily archived is that mention of the OSA
component form had ceased--in places like release announcements--by
November of 1997.

The work was undertaken by Matthias Neeracher (the Jack Jansen of MacPerl,
as you know).  I remember some use-at-your-own risk releases (which proved
too risky for me), and then a quiet period, and then abandonment.  But I
don't remember details.

  --John


-- 
John Baxter   jwblist@olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA


From sdm7g@virginia.edu  Mon Jul 23 21:26:16 2001
From: sdm7g@virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:26:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: <20010722163056.GTQ10608.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0107231621390.261-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>



What benefit do you see in packaging python into a framework ?

I can see the benefit of packaging it into an application bundle 
with a local framework for python libs: simple drag and drop 
install, among other things -- but what benefit do you get from
a library framework ? 

( When this discussion came up last time, it was asked if you could
 share private frameworks from an application bundle:  I believe so,
 but I haven't got around to verifying this. ) 

-- Steve Majewski





From sdm7g@virginia.edu  Mon Jul 23 21:46:59 2001
From: sdm7g@virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:46:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: <20010722163056.GTQ10608.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0107231626250.261-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Tim Lahey wrote:

> 5. Develop a Aqua-based GUI interface. Given the problems
> people have had using PyObjC we may want to use Carbon.
> Interface Builder supports Carbon so, people could layout
> their UI using IB.

 I've had pyobjc on the back burner for several reasons -- 
some personal, but also to wait until I got a look at Guido's
new solution to the Class/Type unification. One of the problems 
was that the bridge translated python objects to and from 
objective-c objects, but didn't bridge python Classes or class
instances transparently, so you couldn't, for example, create
a subclass of a AppKit class in Python and pass it back to 
objective-c or IB.

 This could have been fixed by using extension classes, but it 
didn't seem worth the bother if all of those interfaces and API
were about to change. ( 2.2a is out now, and Guido has written
up a doc that's a little more HOW-TO than the PEP's. ) 

 Pyobjc is going to get rewritten around this new scheme. 

 The other problem with pyobjc was that we never had many developers
or users working on it, doing bug reports, writing examples and
docs. I'm aware of *MY* problems in using pyobjc, but I'm not aware
that many people even tried it. Did you ever try the HelloWorld 
script ? 

-- Steve Majewski




From draayer@surfglobal.net  Mon Jul 23 22:18:04 2001
From: draayer@surfglobal.net (Dean Draayer)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:18:04 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] findertools problems
Message-ID: <E15On5K-0007tW-00@mail.python.org>

1. In findertools.py, the movetotrash() function throws up an error:
    NameError: global name 'findertools' is not defined
Should 'findertools.' be removed from the last line?

    def movetotrash(path):
        """move the object to the trash"""
        fss = macfs.FSSpec(path)
        trashfolder = macfs.FSSpec(macfs.FindFolder(fss.as_tuple()[0],
                                        'trsh', 0) + 
("",)).as_pathname()
        findertools.move(path, trashfolder)


2. When I do:
    import finder
I get back:
    SystemError: NULL result without error in call_object
Now perhaps finder isn't the module I should be importing (Finder is
probably what I need), but the SystemError is troubling.  Something 
isn't
quite right here.


3. Can anyone suggest a "proper" way to make a temporary backup of 
files? 
Unfortunately, the shutil functions don't preserve resources, 
type/creator,
etc., so that's no good.  So I've fallen back on findertools.copy().  
This
has some drawbacks: (i) it's slow; (ii) it won't let one specify a 
filename;
(iii) it apparently won't let me make the copy in the system's 
Temporary
Items folder (maybe due to invisibility?), e.g.:

    >>> findertools.copy('myFile.py', tempfile.tempdir)
    Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<input>", line 1, in ?
     File "manfred:dev:python 2.1:mac:lib:findertools.py", line 62, in 
copy
       return finder.duplicate(src_fss, to=dst_fss)
     File "manfred:dev:python 2.1:mac:lib:li
b-scriptpackages:Finder:Standard_Suite.py", line 206, in duplicate
       raise aetools.Error, aetools.decodeerror(_arguments) 
aetools.Error: (32768029, 'Illegal seek', ObjectSpecifier('****', 'fss 
', FSSpec((-1, 2, 'Temporary Items'))))

On the other hand, I've been able to make a folder (via os.mkdir()) 
within
Temporary Items and use findertools.copy() to make the copies into that
folder.  So this provides some kind of workaround, but should we 
really be
getting this Traceback?

Dean



From deirdre@deirdre.net  Mon Jul 23 22:21:44 2001
From: deirdre@deirdre.net (Deirdre Saoirse Moen)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:21:44 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0107231626250.261-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
References: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0107231626250.261-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <a05101010b78241d7db4d@[192.168.0.50]>

>On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Tim Lahey wrote:
>
>>  5. Develop a Aqua-based GUI interface. Given the problems
>>  people have had using PyObjC we may want to use Carbon.
>>  Interface Builder supports Carbon so, people could layout
>>  their UI using IB.
>
>  I've had pyobjc on the back burner for several reasons --
>some personal, but also to wait until I got a look at Guido's
>new solution to the Class/Type unification. One of the problems
>was that the bridge translated python objects to and from
>objective-c objects, but didn't bridge python Classes or class
>instances transparently, so you couldn't, for example, create
>a subclass of a AppKit class in Python and pass it back to
>objective-c or IB.
>
>  This could have been fixed by using extension classes, but it
>didn't seem worth the bother if all of those interfaces and API
>were about to change. ( 2.2a is out now, and Guido has written
>up a doc that's a little more HOW-TO than the PEP's. )

Yay.

>  Pyobjc is going to get rewritten around this new scheme.

Yay!

>  The other problem with pyobjc was that we never had many developers
>or users working on it, doing bug reports, writing examples and
>docs. I'm aware of *MY* problems in using pyobjc, but I'm not aware
>that many people even tried it. Did you ever try the HelloWorld
>script ?

I'd use it more if it seemed like it could be used for more. 
Naturally, this becomes a cart/horse problem.
-- 
_Deirdre    Stash-o-Matic: http://weirdre.com    http://deirdre.net
"Cannot run out of time.... Is infinite time. You... are finite....
Zathrus... is finite. This... is wrong tool!" -- Zathrus


From tjlahey@cgl.uwaterloo.ca  Mon Jul 23 23:15:02 2001
From: tjlahey@cgl.uwaterloo.ca (Tim Lahey)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:15:02 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: <20010723085948.E2C75303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <20010723221526.TYYH3894.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@localhost>

On Monday, July 23, 2001, at 04:59 AM, Jack Jansen wrote:

>
> Ok, time for some detailed discussion.
>
>> 1. Build the core python distribution as a framework to be placed
>> in /Library/Frameworks. Allows for easy installation and
>> accessible for all Applications.
>
> One problem here is that /Library/Frameworks/Python will look different 
> from
> what unix-pythoneers are used to. It'll be similar, but different. I'd 
> like to
> know whether its possible to but a "normal" python installation in here 
> (say,
> in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/python) and put the framework
> mumbojumbo in symlinks. Hmm, yes, the existing frameworks already do 
> that, so
> symlinking should be fine.

As for the structure of the framework, I'm more than willing to defer to 
others. The
main reason I see for a framework is the ease of installation and 
inclusion with
an application. I'd rather not hide things in /usr/local/lib/pythonx.x, 
it doesn't
really fit with the general OS X philosophy.

>
>> 2. Set the PYTHONPATH to search the ~/Library/Python then
>> /Library/Python for additional modules. Basically, they would
>> act as local and global site-packages directories.
>
> I think I'd prefer the global site-packages to live in 
> Lib/site-packages in
> /Library/Framework/Python.framework/ just so we're not accused of 
> changing
> things without reason (by the rest of the unix-pythoneers). The
> ~/Library/Python idea I like.

The only problem I have with this is that it means that the contents of 
the framework
will be exposed and edited by the users.
>
>> 4. Create a PythonInterpreter View Interface Builder Pallet so
>> applications can embed the interpreter inside the application
>> along with a place for user interaction.
>
> Oops, buzzword overload. I know the various words, but the stringing 
> together
> doesn't result in added meaning. Could you expand on this a bit?

Basically, I want a IB widget that one can add to their application that 
provides
an interpreter view. This would allow one to customise the relative to 
the application,
some might want the interpreter in a separate window, others at the 
bottom of a
main window.

> I think we can do it so that people could do both, but initially I think
> Carbon is the way to go. I have most of the MacPython toolbox modules 
> ported
> (at least: they compile and import), I'm working on the few basic 
> necesseties
> we need to put Carbon and BSD together (FSRefs, CFString and friends) 
> and on
> replacements for things we're going to lose (MLTE to replace Waste; 
> that is,
> unless someone wants to invest some time into getting Waste to run under
> Mach-O Carbon. This would be *very* welcome as lack of Waste is the 
> main thing
> that stops us from starting on IDE).

The way I see things is that people will have two ways of building a UI 
for their
application:

1. In python, using a wrapper around Carbon calls.
2. In Cocoa/Carbon, with python embedded in the application, but not 
creating
the UI.

I think both have their place. One way of doing an IDE for OS X python 
would be
the second.

>
>> 6. Being porting some of the other python modules to the new
>> UI. I'm thinking of various ones such as PIL and PyOpenGL.
>
> PIL should be trivial, PyOpenGL also not too difficult.

PIL shouldn't be too bad using either method of making a UI, PyOpenGL 
wouldn't
be difficult to use with python embedded in a Cocoa app, I'm not sure 
about through
Carbon.

>
> Most of what I've done so far is in the repository already, the one 
> exception
> being the setup.py file (which will build all the toolbox modules and 
> such). I
> can mail it to people who want to play with this stuff, and I'll also 
> try and
> think of a way to put it into the repository without overmuch bothering 
> people
> who use OSX as a unix box.

I'll take a stab at things, although I generally use OS X as a UNIX with 
a nice GUI.

Cheers,

Tim Lahey
tjlahey@cgl.uwaterloo.ca


From tjlahey@cgl.uwaterloo.ca  Mon Jul 23 23:20:59 2001
From: tjlahey@cgl.uwaterloo.ca (Tim Lahey)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:20:59 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0107231621390.261-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <20010723222126.CHMF3306.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@localhost>

Steve,

The advantage I see of the framework, is that it simplifies installation
and provides a central point for many apps to link against. If it was
part of an application, Python.app say, in order to link against it, one
would need to find out where Python.app was located on the particular
machine. If we standardise on /Library/Frameworks which seems to
be the logical choice, all applications that utilise Python would know
where it is. If every application embeds the framework, that can be
a lot of wasted disk space. After all, don't we want lots of applications
that use python?

Cheers,

Tim Lahey
tjlahey@cgl.uwaterloo.ca

On Monday, July 23, 2001, at 04:26 PM, Steven D. Majewski wrote:

>
> What benefit do you see in packaging python into a framework ?
>
> I can see the benefit of packaging it into an application bundle
> with a local framework for python libs: simple drag and drop
> install, among other things -- but what benefit do you get from
> a library framework ?
>
> ( When this discussion came up last time, it was asked if you could
>  share private frameworks from an application bundle:  I believe so,
>  but I haven't got around to verifying this. )
>
> -- Steve Majewski
>



From tjlahey@cgl.uwaterloo.ca  Mon Jul 23 23:26:31 2001
From: tjlahey@cgl.uwaterloo.ca (Tim Lahey)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:26:31 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0107231626250.261-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <20010723222700.UCKI3894.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@localhost>


On Monday, July 23, 2001, at 04:46 PM, Steven D. Majewski wrote:
>
> On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Tim Lahey wrote:
>
>> 5. Develop a Aqua-based GUI interface. Given the problems
>> people have had using PyObjC we may want to use Carbon.
>> Interface Builder supports Carbon so, people could layout
>> their UI using IB.
>
>  I've had pyobjc on the back burner for several reasons --
> some personal, but also to wait until I got a look at Guido's
> new solution to the Class/Type unification. One of the problems
> was that the bridge translated python objects to and from
> objective-c objects, but didn't bridge python Classes or class
> instances transparently, so you couldn't, for example, create
> a subclass of a AppKit class in Python and pass it back to
> objective-c or IB.
>
>  This could have been fixed by using extension classes, but it
> didn't seem worth the bother if all of those interfaces and API
> were about to change. ( 2.2a is out now, and Guido has written
> up a doc that's a little more HOW-TO than the PEP's. )
>
>  Pyobjc is going to get rewritten around this new scheme.
>
>  The other problem with pyobjc was that we never had many developers
> or users working on it, doing bug reports, writing examples and
> docs. I'm aware of *MY* problems in using pyobjc, but I'm not aware
> that many people even tried it. Did you ever try the HelloWorld
> script ?
>
> -- Steve Majewski
>

Steve,

Yes, I tried a few things using PyObjC and although it worked for some 
things,
manipulations of the UI were not its strong suit. Also, using Cocoa, 
there is a lot
of work to be done to create a UI if one doesn't use NIBs and I couldn't 
get the
NIBs to load through PyObjC. The work is simpler using Carbon at the 
moment.
If you and Bill B. manage to get NIBs loading through PyObjC, that's 
great because
I like the Cocoa API but it isn't Python-friendly at the moment.

Cheers,

Tim Lahey
tjlahey@cgl.uwaterloo.ca


From jack@oratrix.nl  Tue Jul 24 09:35:42 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:35:42 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Howto set CW command line option?
In-Reply-To: Message by Torsten Sadowski <moehl@akaflieg.extern.tu-berlin.de> ,
 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:29:10 +0200 (CEST) , <Pine.LNX.4.21.0107232024490.29157-100000@akaflieg.extern.tu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20010724083543.4CFFC303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> I=B4m trying to build wxpython and for this I need to set "-bool on" an=
d
> "-prefix wx_cw.h". Which distutils variable is the one to use? I had no=

> success with "defines" and "cflags" so far. =


I assume that you're talking about OS9 or earlier here. The flags you spe=
cify =

are completely new to me, but I do know there's a CodeWarrior option "boo=
l =

support" and an option "prefix file", that you might want to set to these=
 =

values. However, I'm not aware of a command-line version of CodeWarrior (=
or do =

the CW compilers also run under the MPW shell?).

Anyway, distutils currently has no support for setting these options, but=
 it =

would be not too difficult to add them. The best way may be to add suppor=
t for =

a "command line" to :Mac:Lib:mkcwproj, and there use AppleEvents to chang=
e the =

settings in the project. In other words: first generate the project file =
as it =

is done now (with default values for bool support and prefix file), then =
loop =

through the "command line" and change any option settings that are in the=
re.

If this isn't enough help let me know. I have preciously little time, but=
 I =

guess wxPython is important enough that I'll just push some other things =
out a =

bit.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++=

Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig =
++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.=
htm =





From jack@oratrix.nl  Tue Jul 24 09:38:11 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:38:11 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: Message by John W Baxter <jwblist@olympus.net> ,
 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:09:29 -0700 , <p05101000b782338821ee@[207.149.192.229]>
Message-ID: <20010724083823.B72BC303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> >do you know why it failed? Or do you know people who were involved, or mailing
> >list archives, etc?
> 
> This is back in what counts as pre-history in computer terms.  All I can
> see in the email I have readily archived is that mention of the OSA
> component form had ceased--in places like release announcements--by
> November of 1997.

Ah, nevermind, I misunderstood you. I thought that the attempt to turn Perl 
into an OSX framwork had failed. I know that turning Perl into an OSA 
component failed, that - together with my hunch that Component Mgr wasn't good 
enough for MacPython - made me decide not to pursue the subject.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From jack@oratrix.nl  Tue Jul 24 10:04:41 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:04:41 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: Message by "Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g@virginia.edu> ,
 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:26:16 -0400 (EDT) , <Pine.NXT.4.21.0107231621390.261-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <20010724090441.86AF7303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> 
> 
> 
> What benefit do you see in packaging python into a framework ?
> 
> I can see the benefit of packaging it into an application bundle 
> with a local framework for python libs: simple drag and drop 
> install, among other things -- but what benefit do you get from
> a library framework ? 

My thinking is now somewhat along the following lines for how Python will look 
on OSX (note that this is unix-Python, what is now MacPython may continue to 
live alongside this for a while, or even be incorporated into it).

1) In /Library/Framework there's a Python.framework. This will look a lot like 
a standard Apple framework bundle, but it's really only a lot of symlinks 
around a normal Unix Python tree (as would be found in /usr/local/python), 
somewhere down in /Library/Framework/Python.framework/Versions/2.2/Resources/py
thon . Maybe the last directory should move one level up, I'm not sure 
(comments?).
I think that if a user has no admin privileges they could install all this in 
~/Library/Framework and it would still work. Also, when Apple starts shipping 
Python with OSX 10.3 (half a :-) they can put it in /System/Library/Frameworks.

2) In /usr/local/bin there's a symlink "python" to 
/Library/Framework/Python.framework/Versions/2.2/Resources/python/bin/python.
This makes commandline Python completely happy. Actually, maybe the link 
should go to /Library/Framework/Python.framework/python, with that in turn 
linking to the path above, so that installing Python 2.3 will automatically 
make the /usr/local script point to the right place.

3) In /Applications there's a Python.app application bundle. This has all the 
a small executable, the icon and plist mumbojumbo, and that's probably all. It 
is probably the same main program as what was used to create the commandline 
interpreter deep down the framework specified in (1), but this time it is 
linked against the whole framework in stead of against the python shared 
library only. Hmm, on second thoughts it might be a slightly different main 
program, see below.

4) If the main program above checks for a "PYC " resource and runs that (just 
like MacPython does nowadays) if it exists we can use something similar to the 
old MacPyhton scheme for createing applets. Just copy the 
/Applications/Python.app bundle, drop a PYC resource file in its Resources 
folder and off you go.

Ok, lots of verbiage but still no answer to your question:-)

Two advantages to using a library framework. Easy applets (point 4 above) and 
also easy creation of extension modules and easy embedding of Python (simply 
link against Python.framework). The latter needs a little reorganisation 
(like, python/Mac/Include should move to Python/Include/Mac, probably) but 
we're almosty there.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From jack@oratrix.nl  Tue Jul 24 12:42:39 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:42:39 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] findertools problems
In-Reply-To: Message by Dean Draayer <draayer@surfglobal.net> ,
 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:18:04 -0400 , <E15On5K-0007tW-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <20010724114239.ECC43303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> 
> 1. In findertools.py, the movetotrash() function throws up an error:
>     NameError: global name 'findertools' is not defined
> Should 'findertools.' be removed from the last line?

Yep, that's the right fix. Thanks!


> 2. When I do:
>     import finder
> I get back:
>     SystemError: NULL result without error in call_object

I can't repeat this (with the current CVS sources). Could you try again to see 
that it's no freak incident? If it isn't: please try again with "trace import 
statements" on and let me know the results.

> 3. Can anyone suggest a "proper" way to make a temporary backup of 
> files?
> Unfortunately, the shutil functions don't preserve resources, 
> type/creator,
> etc., so that's no good.  So I've fallen back on findertools.copy().

I think macostools.copy() is what you want to use here. A lot of the 
findertools methods have a counterpart in macostools, but where findertools 
calls on the finder macostools does it itself.

--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From jack@oratrix.nl  Tue Jul 24 12:59:37 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:59:37 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: Message by Tim Lahey <tjlahey@cgl.uwaterloo.ca> ,
 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:15:02 -0400 , <20010723221526.TYYH3894.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@localhost>
Message-ID: <20010724115937.B7999303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> As for the structure of the framework, I'm more than willing to defer to 
> others. The
> main reason I see for a framework is the ease of installation and 
> inclusion with
> an application. I'd rather not hide things in /usr/local/lib/pythonx.x, 
> it doesn't
> really fit with the general OS X philosophy.

Yep, fully agreed.

> > I think I'd prefer the global site-packages to live in 
> > Lib/site-packages in
> > /Library/Framework/Python.framework/ just so we're not accused of 
> > changing
> > things without reason (by the rest of the unix-pythoneers). The
> > ~/Library/Python idea I like.
> 
> The only problem I have with this is that it means that the contents of 
> the framework
> will be exposed and edited by the users.

Hmm, yes, that's right. And it shouldn't be too difficult to explain distutils 
that site-python is in a different place on OSX.

On the other hand, there's still the problem that this will be unfamiliar to 
people with a unix background, and I think that keeping the unixheads happy is 
a good thing (especially if it can lure people over to the Mac!).

Ah, I think I see a showstopper for the /Library/Python idea: there's no 
version control in there, whereas in /Library/Framework/Python.framework there 
is. And version control is important to distutils-based packages, as they may 
contain dynamically loadable modules.

Hmm, but for pure-Python packages /Library/Python may well be the better 
place.... I'm not sure yet, any other views are welcome...

> >> 4. Create a PythonInterpreter View Interface Builder Pallet so
> >> applications can embed the interpreter inside the application
> >> along with a place for user interaction.
> >
> > Oops, buzzword overload. I know the various words, but the stringing 
> > together
> > doesn't result in added meaning. Could you expand on this a bit?
> 
> Basically, I want a IB widget that one can add to their application that 
> provides
> an interpreter view.

This all sounds like magic to me. What is an IB widget? Do I understand that I 
can extend IB? How?

> The way I see things is that people will have two ways of building a UI 
> for their
> application:
> 
> 1. In python, using a wrapper around Carbon calls.
> 2. In Cocoa/Carbon, with python embedded in the application, but not 
> creating
> the UI.

Is there a way we could emulate the magic that IB does for Cocoa for 
Objective-C and Java?

In my opionion Python is a language that could potentially be much better 
integrated with IB than Objective-C (I've never tried Java yet). For one, the 
"generate source files" could simply output readonly files that contain base 
classes that you then import and subclass in your own Python class. This gets 
rid of the problem that you have can't really press the "generate" button for 
ObjC after you've modified the sources (unless you're willing to risk your 
code disappearing).

(In the paragraphs above I'm assuming that Steven will get the Python<->ObjC 
bridge working).

> I think both have their place. One way of doing an IDE for OS X python 
> would be
> the second.

Yes, but an easier way would be to take the existing IDE and pack it up as an 
application using the Python.framework. The main body of work here is either 
porting Waste or replacing it by MLTE. The other modules it needs all run 
(well, compile:-) under MachO-Python already. Of course there's more work, but 
that's only minor things.


--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From jack@oratrix.nl  Tue Jul 24 13:04:11 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:04:11 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: Message by Jack Jansen <jack@oratrix.nl> ,
 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:04:41 +0200 , <20010724090441.86AF7303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <20010724120411.F0B28303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

Following up to myself with another thought:

> 4) If the main program above checks for a "PYC " resource and runs that (just 
> like MacPython does nowadays) if it exists we can use something similar to the 
> old MacPyhton scheme for createing applets. Just copy the 
> /Applications/Python.app bundle, drop a PYC resource file in its Resources 
> folder and off you go.

... And maybe BuildApplication is just as simple. Do all the steps above, and 
finally dump a copy of /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework into the 
SharedFrameworks folder in the applet bundle.

Would that work?
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From tjlahey@cgl.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Jul 24 13:23:14 2001
From: tjlahey@cgl.uwaterloo.ca (Tim Lahey)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:23:14 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: <20010724115937.B7999303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <20010724122339.BRNZ29255.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@localhost>

On Tuesday, July 24, 2001, at 07:59 AM, Jack Jansen wrote:
>
>>> I think I'd prefer the global site-packages to live in
>>> Lib/site-packages in
>>> /Library/Framework/Python.framework/ just so we're not accused of
>>> changing
>>> things without reason (by the rest of the unix-pythoneers). The
>>> ~/Library/Python idea I like.
>>
>> The only problem I have with this is that it means that the contents of
>> the framework will be exposed and edited by the users.
>
> Hmm, yes, that's right. And it shouldn't be too difficult to explain 
> distutils
> that site-python is in a different place on OSX.
>
> On the other hand, there's still the problem that this will be 
> unfamiliar to
> people with a unix background, and I think that keeping the unixheads 
> happy is
> a good thing (especially if it can lure people over to the Mac!).
>
> Ah, I think I see a showstopper for the /Library/Python idea: there's no
> version control in there, whereas in 
> /Library/Framework/Python.framework there
> is. And version control is important to distutils-based packages, as 
> they may
> contain dynamically loadable modules.

Good point, I'm more than willing to defer to others on this point.

>
> Hmm, but for pure-Python packages /Library/Python may well be the better
> place.... I'm not sure yet, any other views are welcome...
>
>>>> 4. Create a PythonInterpreter View Interface Builder Palette so
>>>> applications can embed the interpreter inside the application
>>>> along with a place for user interaction.
>>
>> Basically, I want a IB widget that one can add to their application 
>> that
>> provides an interpreter view.
>
> This all sounds like magic to me. What is an IB widget? Do I understand 
> that I
> can extend IB? How?

Yes, one can extend IB to some extent. When I'm talking about an IB 
widget,
I'm talking about one of the items on the Cocoa/Carbon Views palette 
that users
use to build their UI. So, one can add their own items to it. Hmm, it 
appears
that only Cocoa allows this at the moment (When you start IB there is a 
list of
different items to build, one is an IB Palette). The IB Palette is based 
upon a
Cocoa class that the user has written.

>
>> The way I see things is that people will have two ways of building a UI
>> for their
>> application:
>>
>> 1. In python, using a wrapper around Carbon calls.
>> 2. In Cocoa/Carbon, with python embedded in the application, but not
>> creating the UI.
>
> Is there a way we could emulate the magic that IB does for Cocoa for
> Objective-C and Java?
>
> In my opionion Python is a language that could potentially be much 
> better
> integrated with IB than Objective-C (I've never tried Java yet). For 
> one, the
> "generate source files" could simply output readonly files that contain 
> base
> classes that you then import and subclass in your own Python class. 
> This gets
> rid of the problem that you have can't really press the "generate" 
> button for
> ObjC after you've modified the sources (unless you're willing to risk 
> your
> code disappearing).
>
> (In the paragraphs above I'm assuming that Steven will get the 
> Python<->ObjC
> bridge working).
>

I'm not sure, I don't think so at the moment. Something to ask on the 
Project Builder
mailing list, I think. One way to emulate it would be to have a tool 
that takes the
generated .m files and converts them to PyObjC. Either that or builds 
them from the
NIB files. I don't think this can be done with the existing Interface 
Builder.

Cheers,

Tim Lahey
tjlahey@cgl.uwaterloo.ca


From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de  Tue Jul 24 13:22:42 2001
From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:22:42 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
References: <20010724115937.B7999303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <3B5D6892.4C2F1C81@darwin.in-berlin.de>

Jack Jansen wrote:
> 
> > Basically, I want a IB widget that one can add to their application that
> > provides
> > an interpreter view.
> 
> This all sounds like magic to me. What is an IB widget? Do I understand that I
> can extend IB? How?

You can write your own palletes or what they are called,
basically some kind of bundles, that you can extend IB's
capabilities with. Just drag them in the appropriate 
folder and all of a sudden you could have a pallete con-
taining one widget representing a whole Python inter-
preter or other components you've written, graphical or
not. Then you can happily start wiring these graphically.
It's very intuitive and has been there for about ten 
years, now. 

> Is there a way we could emulate the magic that IB does for Cocoa for
> Objective-C and Java?
> 
> In my opionion Python is a language that could potentially be much better
> integrated with IB than Objective-C (I've never tried Java yet). For one, the
> "generate source files" could simply output readonly files that contain base
> classes that you then import and subclass in your own Python class. This gets
> rid of the problem that you have can't really press the "generate" button for
> ObjC after you've modified the sources (unless you're willing to risk your
> code disappearing).

Some of this must have been solved before by a company 
called TipTop.com (I've asked about them here before, 
but got no response). Unfortunately, they don't quite
seem to exist anymore or just don't respond to email re-
quests. Maybe someone in Bolder, CO, could try and knock 
at their door?

Regards,

Dinu


From jack@oratrix.nl  Tue Jul 24 13:50:12 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:50:12 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: Message by Tim Lahey <tjlahey@cgl.uwaterloo.ca> ,
 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:23:14 -0400 , <20010724122339.BRNZ29255.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@localhost>
Message-ID: <20010724125013.2AA72303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> Yes, one can extend IB to some extent. When I'm talking about an IB 
> widget,
> I'm talking about one of the items on the Cocoa/Carbon Views palette 
> that users
> use to build their UI. So, one can add their own items to it. Hmm, it 
> appears
> that only Cocoa allows this at the moment (When you start IB there is a 
> list of
> different items to build, one is an IB Palette). The IB Palette is based 
> upon a
> Cocoa class that the user has written.


KOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLL!!!!! Huhhuh.. huhhuh..

That's a nice feature, indeed. But I can see that it would only work for 
Cocoa. At least: I can see that you can only create the IB widgets with Cocoa, 
as such an IB widget seems a lot easier to realise in Cocoa. I think we should 
leave this one for later, though, for now I would be happy enough if we could 
(in order of percieved difficulty)

- Use IB to create Carbon-based interfaces
- Use IB to create Cocoa-based interfaces
- Make Python a first-class IB citizen. Or, at least, an almost-first-class 
citizen, if we can get there by decoding the .nib and .xib files. 
Alternatively we could try to decode the .m file into a .py file, but I think 
I would prefer the .nib/.xib.

--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From Layne.Bilyeu@robbstucky.net  Tue Jul 24 18:46:56 2001
From: Layne.Bilyeu@robbstucky.net (AdvertisingDept)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:46:56 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Off subject? can OSX developer tools be used to create "Classic"
Message-ID: <OF49972F54.09F4B44E-ON85256A93.00614BBF@RobbStucky.net>

Two (2) Possibly Off-Group questions

(1)
Can MacOSX developer tools be used to create "Classic" Carbon apps that 
will run on 
macs NOT running OSX? (ProjectBuilder, InterfaceBuilder, etc...)

I've been skimming the Learning Cocoa, Learning Carbon books
but they take the point of view that everyone
is currently running MacOSX and "Classic" is a dead legacy.


Unfortunately, I need my python code running NOW 
with a Mac GUI interface,
on real trusted MacOS with real trusted applications.
We use MacOS 8.6 and probably will continue to do so 
until apps for 4-color print work become trustworthy on MacOSX.
(QuarkXpress/In-Design, Illustrator/Freehand, (any)Font Manager, 
Photoshop/GIMP, Acrobat, Postscript RIPs)

I'll be moving to osX eventually; but for now I need something
that works in the Legacy "Classic" environment.


(2)
I've got some python objects & methods.
What can / should I be using to "Build" my app's interface?

Start learning ResEdit, Project/Interface Builder, or hope that
somebody who can afford all that CodeWarrior entails
will release a runtime of a stable wxpython for "Classic" 
before it really is a Legacy platform?




Thanks
Lane


From moehl@akaflieg.extern.tu-berlin.de  Tue Jul 24 19:41:38 2001
From: moehl@akaflieg.extern.tu-berlin.de (Torsten Sadowski)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:41:38 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Howto set CW command line option?
In-Reply-To: <20010724083543.4CFFC303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0107242038130.1735-101000@akaflieg.extern.tu-berlin.de>

  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
  Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.

---1786631133-82518146-996000098=:1735
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Ok, command line options is not the right word. It is necessary to set 
the prefixname variable in mwerkscompiler.py and to enable bool support.

For the adventurous I attached a changed setup.py, helpers.cpp and
helpers.h which replace the files in wxpython (Compact Pro should open 
with Stuffit Exp).

First you have to compile wxwindows 2.3.1 which should work without major
problems. Just read install.txt.
Then duplicate the wxPython:src:gtk folder and rename it "mac". Copy
image.cpp from the msw folder to the mac folder. Next open setup.py and
change WX_ROOT_FOLDER and libs to your need.
Run setup.py and as soon as CW responds to the outside world open the
target settings panel C/C++ Language and enable bool support and change the
prefix file to "wx/wx_cw.h"
If anyone knows how to suppress the Illegal implicit const/volatile
pointer conversion warning I would appreciate a hint.
Compile again and see what compiles.

Torsten


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---1786631133-82518146-996000098=:1735--


From sdm7g@Virginia.EDU  Tue Jul 24 21:00:14 2001
From: sdm7g@Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:00:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Off subject? can OSX developer tools be used to
 create "Classic"
In-Reply-To: <OF49972F54.09F4B44E-ON85256A93.00614BBF@RobbStucky.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0107241532040.471-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, AdvertisingDept wrote:

> Two (2) Possibly Off-Group questions

I don't think these are off topic on this list.

> Can MacOSX developer tools be used to create "Classic" Carbon apps that 
> will run on 
> macs NOT running OSX? (ProjectBuilder, InterfaceBuilder, etc...)

All of the unix/gcc/gnu based development tools on macosx read or write
mach-o format object files. That means, at least for now, that even if
you write portable Carbon source code, the resulting image will only run
on OSX, not Classic ( OS 8|9 ). 

I don't have the latest CodeWarrior, but I believe that it can handle
both PEF/CFM  (the classic object formats) and mach-o. 

Nib files *are* supported in Carbon, so you should be able to use 
InterfaceBuilder Nibs on either OSX or Classic -- but you would
have to build the classic app with CW. 

I don't know any reason why filters couldn't be written to convert 
object file formats, or a new backend written for gcc+ld to write
PEF/CFM objects for Classic, but I haven't heard that any such tools
are in the works from Apple or anyone else. (I'm sure Apple doesn't
want to step on Metrowerks toes too much!)


> I've been skimming the Learning Cocoa, Learning Carbon books
> but they take the point of view that everyone
> is currently running MacOSX and "Classic" is a dead legacy.

Carbon's the transition strategy mainly because it's supported
on OS9.X and, I think, Back to 8.5 or 8.6 at least, with CarbonLib.


> Unfortunately, I need my python code running NOW 
> with a Mac GUI interface,
> on real trusted MacOS with real trusted applications.
> We use MacOS 8.6 and probably will continue to do so 
> until apps for 4-color print work become trustworthy on MacOSX.
> (QuarkXpress/In-Design, Illustrator/Freehand, (any)Font Manager, 
> Photoshop/GIMP, Acrobat, Postscript RIPs)
> 
> I'll be moving to osX eventually; but for now I need something
> that works in the Legacy "Classic" environment.


Then you ought to be targeting Carbon, but using CodeWarrior to 
compile binaries that will run on both OSX and OS8 + 9. 


> (2)
> I've got some python objects & methods.
> What can / should I be using to "Build" my app's interface?
> 
> Start learning ResEdit, Project/Interface Builder, or hope that
> somebody who can afford all that CodeWarrior entails
> will release a runtime of a stable wxpython for "Classic" 
> before it really is a Legacy platform?

Well -- "Classic" may become a legacy platform sometime in the
future -- sort of like 68K support -- it's been there until OSX,
but increasingly less used, and by the time it was dropped in OSX,
there's little or no demand for it. Carbon, on the other hand, will
be supported for the forseeable future. At some point, it may become
"legacy" in the sense that they will eventually stop releasing new
versions of CarbonLib for "Classic" pre-OSX systems.

If your interested in portability across MacOS releases rather than
cross system portability across Windows,Unix,Mac -- then I would 
just use the Carbon interfaces (probably thru W.py and Framework.py)
and, if you're developing on OSX, experiment with using IB Nibs 
in place of ResEdit. 


-- Steve Majewski




From sdm7g@Virginia.EDU  Tue Jul 24 21:52:42 2001
From: sdm7g@Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:52:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: <3B5D6892.4C2F1C81@darwin.in-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0107241643240.471-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Dinu Gherman wrote:

> You can write your own palletes or what they are called,
> basically some kind of bundles, that you can extend IB's
> capabilities with. Just drag them in the appropriate 
> folder and all of a sudden you could have a pallete con-
> taining one widget representing a whole Python inter-
> preter or other components you've written, graphical or
> not. Then you can happily start wiring these graphically.
> It's very intuitive and has been there for about ten 
> years, now. 
> 
> > Is there a way we could emulate the magic that IB does for Cocoa for
> > Objective-C and Java?

Documentation and methods to support other languages in IB is 
something that has been promised by Apple on the macosx-dev list. 

I don't know if it's just a matter of documenting how they added
Java runtime support, or if they need to generalize those API's
before documenting them. 

I've downloaded the last developer update, but most of the
NSNibConnector docs are still "Description forthcoming" . 
( There are some docs on the NSNibAwakening protocol. ) 


-- Steve Majewski




From sdm7g@Virginia.EDU  Tue Jul 24 22:00:17 2001
From: sdm7g@Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:00:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: <20010724090441.86AF7303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0107241654270.471-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


 I'm not convinced that packaging Python in a Library framework
accomplishes those goals as well as packaging in into an .App 
bundle, but I'm not against the effort -- particularly as the
same sort of changes will be needed for either. 

 For example, we're probably going to want resources to be 
searched for in: Applet's bundle, Python.app bundle, Python lib
framework bundle, other frameworks ... etc. where not all of those
( No applet bundle if you haven't created one, no Python.App if you're
  running from unix command line, etc. ) 

-- Steve Majewski




From Layne.Bilyeu@robbstucky.net  Tue Jul 24 23:20:11 2001
From: Layne.Bilyeu@robbstucky.net (AdvertisingDept)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 18:20:11 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Off subject? can OSX developer tools be used to create "Classic"
Message-ID: <OF3383B858.7FF8A286-ON85256A93.007A4FCD@RobbStucky.net>

>All of the unix/gcc/gnu based development tools on macosx 
>read or write mach-o format object files. That means, 
>at least for now, that even if you write portable Carbon source code, 
>the resulting image will only run on OSX, not Classic ( OS 8|9 ). 

>> I'll be moving to osX eventually; but for now I need something
>> that works in the Legacy "Classic" environment.

>Then you ought to be targeting Carbon, but using CodeWarrior to 
>compile binaries that will run on both OSX and OS8 + 9. 


BUMMER!!!!

So for the "hobbyist" newbie, just beginning to learn programming;
(not already an experienced Mac programmer with such tools);
if you want to write python applications for what is currently stable and
deFacto - MacOS 8.X-9.x, the python "Build Application" applet plus 
ResEdit
are the only resort?       (ouch! what a run-on sentence.)

Thanks
Lane






Boring Personal Details Follow
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
I don't have CodeWarrior, (no funds! just my free time)
I don't know enough to figure out translation
of CodeWarrior-centric details into MPW. (Never used MPW or CodeWarrior)
(I'm a graphic artist who just happened to take fortran77 & Pascal for 
fun.)

I started learning Python because:

1) It costs nothing to use.
2) It is open source.
3) It costs nothing for the documentation.
3) It makes much more sense than AppleScript
     should you decide to read any nonAppleScript "programming" book.
4) It costs nothing for support, and this list is much more responsive
     than any "Company's Product Support" has ever been.
5) It was touted as the best place for a complete programming newbie to 
start.

I've reached the point where it's time to progress past scripts
and make a full Mac application (the event model). 
I'm just trying to figure out where I should be learning next.


From jwblist@olympus.net  Wed Jul 25 04:51:30 2001
From: jwblist@olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:51:30 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python.framework under OS X
In-Reply-To: <20010724083823.B72BC303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010724083823.B72BC303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <p0510100bb783f29119cc@[207.149.192.229]>

At 10:38 +0200 7/24/2001, Jack Jansen wrote:
>> >do you know why it failed? Or do you know people who were involved, or
>>mailing
>> >list archives, etc?
>>
>> This is back in what counts as pre-history in computer terms.  All I can
>> see in the email I have readily archived is that mention of the OSA
>> component form had ceased--in places like release announcements--by
>> November of 1997.
>
>Ah, nevermind, I misunderstood you. I thought that the attempt to turn Perl
>into an OSX framwork had failed. I know that turning Perl into an OSA
>component failed, that - together with my hunch that Component Mgr wasn't good
>enough for MacPython - made me decide not to pursue the subject.

AARGH...Baxter messes up again by misreading a message.  Sorry for the
misdirection!

  --John

-- 
John Baxter   jwblist@olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA


From jack@oratrix.nl  Wed Jul 25 12:52:14 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:52:14 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Off subject? can OSX developer tools be used to
 create "Classic"
In-Reply-To: Message by "Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g@Virginia.EDU> ,
 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:00:14 -0400 (EDT) , <Pine.NXT.4.21.0107241532040.471-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <20010725115214.BD50A303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> I don't know any reason why filters couldn't be written to convert 
> object file formats, or a new backend written for gcc+ld to write
> PEF/CFM objects for Classic, but I haven't heard that any such tools
> are in the works from Apple or anyone else. (I'm sure Apple doesn't
> want to step on Metrowerks toes too much!)

If I understand correctly it's not only the object file format that is 
different but also the subroutine calling conventions. At least, I think that 
that is what all the OSX CFM<->MachO glue stuff is converting.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From doug@sonosphere.com  Wed Jul 25 15:27:13 2001
From: doug@sonosphere.com (Doug Wyatt)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 07:27:13 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Off subject? can OSX developer tools be used to  create "Classic"
In-Reply-To: <20010725115214.BD50A303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <23E286D0-8109-11D5-A0B7-00039301A6E6@>

On Wednesday, July 25, 2001, at 04:52 AM, Jack Jansen wrote:
>> I don't know any reason why filters couldn't be written to convert
>> object file formats, or a new backend written for gcc+ld to write
>> PEF/CFM objects for Classic, but I haven't heard that any such tools
>> are in the works from Apple or anyone else. (I'm sure Apple doesn't
>> want to step on Metrowerks toes too much!)
>
> If I understand correctly it's not only the object file format that is
> different but also the subroutine calling conventions. At least, I 
> think that
> that is what all the OSX CFM<->MachO glue stuff is converting.

The function calling conventions look pretty darned similar.  First 
argument and return value is r3, second argument is r4, etc.

I think the differences have more to do with CFM's assumptions about 
RTOC, which comes into play with UPP's etc ...

Doug

--
Doug Wyatt
work:  dwyatt@apple.com  (CoreAudio)
personal:  doug@sonosphere.com   http://www.sonosphere.com

"Premature optimization is the root of all evil."
	-- Knuth



From jack@oratrix.nl  Wed Jul 25 16:32:09 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 17:32:09 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Off subject? can OSX developer tools be used to
 create "Classic"
In-Reply-To: Message by Doug Wyatt <doug@sonosphere.com> ,
 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 07:27:13 -0700 , <23E286D0-8109-11D5-A0B7-00039301A6E6@>
Message-ID: <20010725153209.8F76E303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> The function calling conventions look pretty darned similar.  First 
> argument and return value is r3, second argument is r4, etc.
> 
> I think the differences have more to do with CFM's assumptions about 
> RTOC, which comes into play with UPP's etc ...

Yep, you're completely right. The calling sequence is more-or-less dictated by 
the PPC architecture, it's this RTOC business that's different.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From landauer@apple.com  Wed Jul 25 17:58:38 2001
From: landauer@apple.com (Doug Landauer)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:58:38 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] CFM vs mach-o
In-Reply-To: <20010725153209.8F76E303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <4AF2D852-811E-11D5-915D-0050E42E7B62@apple.com>

--Apple-Mail-1-593249237
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset=us-ascii

>> I think the differences have more to do with CFM's assumptions about
>> RTOC, which comes into play with UPP's etc ...

Here's a two-cent summary "for the rest of us", as far
as I understand it:

Filters between the object and executable file formats
wouldn't be that difficult; the main intractable difference
is that the models that these two worlds use in order to make
code position-independent are too different:  the compilers
generate quite different code to access any static data.

In mach-o, code is made position-independent by setting up
a "PIC base" register, near the start of any function.  (This
is done via a call to the next instruction, in effect loading
a register with a known address that's near the start of the
function.)  Then, any static "nearby" data referenced by this
function is referenced relative to the PIC base, and the code
and data for the function sorta stay together.  Weird glue is
generated for references to data that lives farther away (extern
stuff, outside of this object file).

In CFM, there is no PIC base.  Instead, any static data is referenced
through a "table-of-contents" (TOC).  In this model, compilers will
generate a "reload-the-TOC-register" after any external call, since
any such call might be to a code fragment that uses a different TOC.
The linker can often optimize those reloads by replacing them with
NO-OPs.

   -- Approximately,
   -- Doug L.



--Apple-Mail-1-593249237
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/enriched;
	charset=us-ascii

<excerpt><excerpt><fixed>I think the differences have more to do with
CFM's assumptions about 

RTOC, which comes into play with UPP's etc ...

</fixed></excerpt></excerpt><fixed>

Here's a two-cent summary "for the rest of us", as far

as I understand it:<color><param>0000,63D6,124D</param>

</color>

Filters between the object and executable file formats

wouldn't be that difficult; the main intractable difference

is that the models that these two worlds use in order to make

code position-independent are too different:  the compilers

generate quite different code to access any static data.


In mach-o, code is made position-independent by setting up

a "PIC base" register, near the start of any function.  (This

is done via a call to the next instruction, in effect loading

a register with a known address that's near the start of the

function.)  Then, any static "nearby" data referenced by this

function is referenced relative to the PIC base, and the code

and data for the function sorta stay together.  Weird glue is

generated for references to data that lives farther away (extern

stuff, outside of this object file).


In CFM, there is no PIC base.  Instead, any static data is referenced

through a "table-of-contents" (TOC).  In this model, compilers will

generate a "reload-the-TOC-register" after any external call, since

any such call might be to a code fragment that uses a different TOC.

The linker can often optimize those reloads by replacing them with

NO-OPs.


  -- Approximately,

  -- Doug L.



</fixed>
--Apple-Mail-1-593249237--



From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Jul 26 12:08:43 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:08:43 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1.1c2 available
Message-ID: <20010726110848.7348A15F45D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Folks,
there's a 2.1.1c2 installer available in
http://www.cwi.nl/ftp/jack/python/mac/newer . I think this is
complete, but please try it.

And I mean that: the c1 installer was tested by exactly one person (at
least, that's how much feedback I got), and there were serious
problems with it (Python didn't work on MacOS 8, and the active
installer was broken). I'd like to have some reasonable quality
control on MacPython, but I can't do that without your help...

As with the c1 installer: feedback from people using MacOS 8 and from
people using non-western MacOS versions is especially solicited.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | ++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/ ++++


From owen@astro.washington.edu  Thu Jul 26 16:18:10 2001
From: owen@astro.washington.edu (Russell E Owen)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:18:10 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1.1c2 available
In-Reply-To: <20010726110848.7348A15F45D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010726110848.7348A15F45D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <p05100304b785df4371a9@[128.95.99.44]>

2.1.1c2 again ran fine on my 466MHz G4 running MacOS 9.1 (USA). I ran 
the standard tests on Classic and Carbon using PythonInterpreter with 
no change to the memory partition.
Classic: 107 tests OK. 2 tests failed: test_longexp test_zlib.
Carbon: 106 tests OK. 3 tests failed: test_longexp test_sha test_zlib

I ran the active installer this time (though I usually use the full) 
since you said it was giving problems in the previous 2.1.1 candidate.

Some tiny cosmetic things which might be worth fixing someday, not 
necessarily for 2.1.1:
- after the installer finishes, it launches ConfigurePythonCarbon, 
which takes a VERY long time to come to the front and then sits there 
silently doing something for several minutes (this is on a 466MHz G4 
with plenty of RAM, so I wonder what it's like on an older machine). 
During this time a user might think the computer had hung. I'm very 
puzzled by this delay, as simply launching ConfigurePython(either) 
directly is really fast. It's as if VISE is taking way too much CPU 
time to allow ConfigurePythonCarbon to run normally.

Anyway, after that everything is fine -- ConfigurePythonCarbon 
rebuilds the applets fairly quickly (though not as fast as usual), 
with an explanatory dialog box and a progress bar, so it's obvious 
things are happening....
- Then it puts up a dialog box about how the next step may take 
several minutes. That dialog box is amusing on my machine, because as 
as soon as I click "OK" the process finishes -- no time is taken at 
all for that step. By the way, this behavior (ConfigurePythonCaronb 
really slow to launch, fine afterwards, no time for the last step). 
is unchanged since 2.1 or 2.0

- the initial active installer screen still says this is the first 
version to use an active installer.

-- Russell

>Folks,
>there's a 2.1.1c2 installer available in
>http://www.cwi.nl/ftp/jack/python/mac/newer . I think this is
>complete, but please try it.


From p.oberndoerfer@urheberrecht.org  Thu Jul 26 21:46:44 2001
From: p.oberndoerfer@urheberrecht.org (Pascal Oberndoerfer)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:46:44 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1.1c2 available
Message-ID: <S.0000039963@urheberrecht.org>

[PPC 7600/132; 80MB; MacOS 8.6; CarbonLib 1.2.5]

I used the active installer for the first time. Everything seems to have
been installed fine.

Unfortunately I was not able to locate the python script which performs
all the test. Give me a hint?

Pascal


From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Jul 26 22:14:30 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:14:30 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1.1c2 available
In-Reply-To: Message by Russell E Owen <owen@astro.washington.edu> ,
 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:18:10 -0700 , <p05100304b785df4371a9@[128.95.99.44]>
Message-ID: <20010726211435.AEFA415F45B@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Russell E Owen <owen@astro.washington.edu> said:
> Some tiny cosmetic things which might be worth fixing someday, not 
> necessarily for 2.1.1:
> - after the installer finishes, it launches ConfigurePythonCarbon, 
> which takes a VERY long time to come to the front and then sits there 
> silently doing something for several minutes (this is on a 466MHz G4 
> with plenty of RAM, so I wonder what it's like on an older machine). 
> During this time a user might think the computer had hung. I'm very 
> puzzled by this delay, as simply launching ConfigurePython(either) 
> directly is really fast. It's as if VISE is taking way too much CPU 
> time to allow ConfigurePythonCarbon to run normally.

This delay is very weird. Sometimes I see it, sometimes I don't. I
hadn't noticed it showing up before running ConfigurePythonCarbon
myself, only at the very end.

According to the Mindvision people the delay is actually in the
finder, which is creating icon positions or somesuch for all the files
that have just been dumped on the disk.

Something I thought of earlier this week iss that the deciding factor
for delay/no delay may be whether file sharing is enabled. I've
noticed in other situations (like when I'm building the Python
distribution) that copying large numbers of files is significantly
slower (as in 5-10 times slower) if file sharing is enabled.

I think I'll leave it as-is for 2.1.1, and for 2.2 I'll post the
dialog a bit earlier.

> - the initial active installer screen still says this is the first 
> version to use an active installer.

Ah, thanks, I'll fix this.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Jul 26 22:16:09 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:16:09 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1.1c2 available
In-Reply-To: Message by "Pascal Oberndoerfer" <p.oberndoerfer@urheberrecht.org> ,
 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:46:44 +0200 , <S.0000039963@urheberrecht.org>
Message-ID: <20010726211614.64F7315F45B@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, "Pascal Oberndoerfer" <p.oberndoerfer@urheberrecht.org> said:
> 
> [PPC 7600/132; 80MB; MacOS 8.6; CarbonLib 1.2.5]

Did you try the Carbon version only, or also the classic version? If
you could do the latter too (if you didn't do so already) that would
be very welcome!

> I used the active installer for the first time. Everything seems to have
> been installed fine.
> 
> Unfortunately I was not able to locate the python script which performs
> all the test. Give me a hint?

Start the interpreter and type
>>> import test.autotest
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Jul 26 22:34:09 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:34:09 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: MacPython 2.1.1c2 install problems
In-Reply-To: Message by Tim Lahey <tjlahey@cgl.uwaterloo.ca> ,
 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:32:48 -0400 , <20010726163312.SRNO23576.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@localhost>
Message-ID: <20010726213415.2356E15F45B@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Tim,
I'm cc-ing the list, in the hope someone there has a clue. Hope you
don't mind...

Recently, Tim Lahey <tjlahey@cgl.uwaterloo.ca> said:
> Jack,
> 
> I tried the active installer under OS X and everything installed fine 
> until I went to
> run ConfigurePythonCarbon. It errored out trying to write to my OS X 
> system folder
> a from :Mac:Lib:macostools.py line 89,
> 	ofp = open(dstfss.as_pathname(),'wb')
> 
> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
> 'OSX:System:Library:CFMSupport:PythonCoreCarbon 2.1.1c2'

Hmm, for some reason on your machine it tries to install
PythonCoreCarbon in the system domain (xxx:System:Library:CFMSupport)
in stead of in the local machine domain (xxx:Library:CFMSupport).

That you don't have write permission in the system domain is to be
expected: the stuff in here is supposed to be modified only by Apple,
and they "enforce" that by not having the root user enabled by
default.

The question is: why does it try to install in the system domain? Hmm,
what ConfigurePython tries to do is first
   FindFolder(kLocalDomain, kSharedLibrariesFolderType, 1)
and if that fails it tries again with kOnSystemDisk as the first
parameter. The third parameter is the "create if it doesn't exist"
option.

So, what happens to you could happen if (a) you don't have a
/Library/CFMSupport and (b) you don't have the permission to create
one.

Do you have administrator permissions? For this release of MacPython
you need that, and I must say I never tested what happens if you
don't, but it could well be this. I'll try so later tonight.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From cwebster@nevada.edu  Thu Jul 26 22:40:26 2001
From: cwebster@nevada.edu (Corran Webster)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:40:26 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1.1c2 available
In-Reply-To: <20010726211614.64F7315F45B@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010726211614.64F7315F45B@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <f05001902b7863c0c5540@[131.216.77.14]>

>  > Unfortunately I was not able to locate the python script which performs
>>  all the test. Give me a hint?
>
>Start the interpreter and type
>  >>> import test.autotest

Running the test on CarbonPython 2.1.1c2 on a G4, 540 MHz, OS 9.1, 
using the interpreter (not the IDE) I'm getting _really_ odd 
behaviour.  It runs fine unless I switch another application to being 
the frontmost one.  When I do, the Python script crashes, sometimes 
with a KeyboardInterrupt exception, and sometimes with _no_ 
explanation about the exception raised, for example:

Python 2.1.1c2 (#96, Jul 25 2001, 23:07:15)  [CW CARBON GUSI2 THREADS] on mac
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>  import test.autotest
test_grammar
test_opcodes
test_operations
test_builtin
test_exceptions
test_types
test_MimeWriter
test_StringIO
test___all__
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "Macintosh HD:Applications (Mac OS 9):Python 
2.1.1:Lib:test:autotest.py", line 6, in ?
     regrtest.main()
   File "Macintosh HD:Applications (Mac OS 9):Python 
2.1.1:Lib:test:regrtest.py", line 137, in main
     ok = runtest(test, generate, verbose, quiet, testdir)
   File "Macintosh HD:Applications (Mac OS 9):Python 
2.1.1:Lib:test:regrtest.py", line 251, in runtest
     __import__(test, globals(), locals(), [])
>>>

This seems to be a problem with the interpreter, rather than the test 
suite, since I can get the same error as follows:

>>>  for i in xrange(10000000L):
...  pass
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 2, in ?
KeyboardInterrupt
>>>

There isn't any problem with the IDE as far as I can tell.

Regards,
Corran


From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Jul 26 22:48:20 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:48:20 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: MacPython 2.1.1c2 install problems
In-Reply-To: Message by Jack Jansen <jack@oratrix.nl> ,
 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:34:09 +0200 , <20010726213415.2356E15F45B@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <20010726214825.2885115F45B@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Jack Jansen <jack@oratrix.nl> said:
> Do you have administrator permissions? For this release of MacPython
> you need that, and I must say I never tested what happens if you
> don't, but it could well be this. I'll try so later tonight.

What I get as non-privileged user is permission denied when it tries
to create the interpreter. But that may be because I had installed
Python previously, so the /Library/CFMSupport folder already existed.

Anyway: if someone feels the urge to fix the installation process for
non-privileged users: be my guest. The easiest is probably to simply
detect the situation and post a message "you can't install Python as a
nonpriv user", but better would be a dialog saying "better install it
as privileged" and if the user still wants to install put Python in
their private Application folder (hmm, no, it'll be there already,
Vise will have taken care of that) and don't copy PythonCore.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Jul 26 22:55:37 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:55:37 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1.1c2 available
In-Reply-To: Message by Corran Webster <cwebster@nevada.edu> ,
 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:40:26 -0700 , <f05001902b7863c0c5540@[131.216.77.14]>
Message-ID: <20010726215542.7218D15F45B@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Corran Webster <cwebster@nevada.edu> said:
> Running the test on CarbonPython 2.1.1c2 on a G4, 540 MHz, OS 9.1, 
> using the interpreter (not the IDE) I'm getting _really_ odd 
> behaviour.  It runs fine unless I switch another application to being 
> the frontmost one.  When I do, the Python script crashes, sometimes 
> with a KeyboardInterrupt exception, [...]

Hey! This is an error for which I still warn in the release notes, but
that I haven't seen in a long time. 

I've tried to repeat it based on your recipe but I can't. So, I guess
either the application you're switching to is important (which one was
it? more than one?) or something else in the environment. I'm trying
at home now (iMac G3 400Mhz, OS 9.1) but I think I myself only saw the
problem on my work machine (G4, 450Mhz, OS 9.0.4 or 9.1). I can hardly
imagine that the CPU type is to blame, though...

Maybe other people could also try this, and see whether we can nail it
down? If this is the same problem I saw it should also be there in 2.1.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From mday@mac.com  Thu Jul 26 23:12:14 2001
From: mday@mac.com (Mark Day)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:12:14 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1.1c2 available
In-Reply-To: <f05001902b7863c0c5540@[131.216.77.14]>
Message-ID: <4485DC7F-8213-11D5-8CB4-00039303AF92@apple.com>

On Thursday, July 26, 2001, at 02:40 PM, Corran Webster wrote:

> It runs fine unless I switch another application to being the frontmost 
> one.  When I do, the Python script crashes, sometimes with a 
> KeyboardInterrupt exception, and sometimes with _no_ explanation about 
> the exception raised, for example:

I had something similar happen in the Carbon IDE on 9.1 (installed via 
the active installer).  While test.autotest was running, I tried 
clicking on Finder's desktop.  It didn't switch out, so I clicked in the 
menu bar, window title bar, and maybe a few other places.  When it got 
to the end of the test, the Python output window came up with a message 
(Doh!  Forgot to save it off.) and suddenly, I had two sets of menus.  
The normal menus were followed by another Apple menu (in about the 
middle of the menu bar), File, Edit, Python, and Windows.  I quit the 
IDE and tried to reproduce it, but haven't been successful yet.

A few of the tests fail due to memory problems.  Bumping up the default 
partition size fixed all but test_longexp.  This happened with 2.1, and 
I think you mentioned on your web page that the memory errors were to be 
expected (on Mac OS 8/9 at least).

I'm in the middle of trying Mac OS X 10.0.4 and Mac OS 8.1 right now.

-Mark



From owen@astro.washington.edu  Thu Jul 26 23:33:45 2001
From: owen@astro.washington.edu (Russell E Owen)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:33:45 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1.1c2 available
In-Reply-To: <f05001902b7863c0c5540@[131.216.77.14]>
References: <20010726211614.64F7315F45B@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
 <f05001902b7863c0c5540@[131.216.77.14]>
Message-ID: <p05100301b78647f37f78@[128.95.99.44]>

I haven't seen this, at least yet. I ran my earlier tests at least 
partly in the background, but I didn't switch out right away. So I 
had another go at it...

I repeated the test, as follows (G4 466, MacOS 9.1. MacPython 2.1.1c2 
with default memory partitions):
- run ConfigurePythonCarbon
- run PythonInterpreter
- import test.autotest
- switch to Eudora as soon as I saw "test_grammar
it ran fine. 106 tests OK. 3 tests failed: test_longexp test_sha test_zlib.

Good luck tracking this down. I hope it's not one of those nebulous 
"corrupted prefs files causing random damage" type things (well, it'd 
be nice if it wasn't Python, but it'd also be nice to have an 
explanation and be able to do something about it).

Macs certainly aren't the most stable machines around. I get 
occasional crashes -- often in Finder when using cmd-delete to trash 
files or cmd-D to duplicate them. It was even worse when I left my 
SanDick compact flash reader card in. Heck, I can't even reliably 
boot with the shift key down -- a problem I suspect may be due to my 
Apple-supplied SCSI card. One could make a whole religion around this 
stuff ("pray to the god ROM and he will send you system stability").

I hope Mac OS X is more reliable (I'm not quite ready to switch), but 
it sure seems like features trump stability at Apple and Micro$oft.

Regards,

-- Russell

>Running the test on CarbonPython 2.1.1c2 on a G4, 540 MHz, OS 9.1, 
>using the interpreter (not the IDE) I'm getting _really_ odd 
>behaviour.  It runs fine unless I switch another application to 
>being the frontmost one.  When I do, the Python script crashes, 
>sometimes with a KeyboardInterrupt exception, and sometimes with 
>_no_ explanation about the exception raised...


From cwebster@nevada.edu  Fri Jul 27 00:55:13 2001
From: cwebster@nevada.edu (Corran Webster)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:55:13 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1.1c2 available
In-Reply-To: <20010726215542.7218D15F45B@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010726215542.7218D15F45B@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <f05001904b7865a4b706b@[131.216.77.14]>

At 11:55 PM +0200 26/7/01, Jack Jansen wrote:
>Recently, Corran Webster <cwebster@nevada.edu> said:
>>  Running the test on CarbonPython 2.1.1c2 on a G4, 540 MHz, OS 9.1,
>>  using the interpreter (not the IDE) I'm getting _really_ odd
>>  behaviour.  It runs fine unless I switch another application to being
>>  the frontmost one.  When I do, the Python script crashes, sometimes
>>  with a KeyboardInterrupt exception, [...]
>
>Hey! This is an error for which I still warn in the release notes, but
>that I haven't seen in a long time.

...which serves me right for not reading release notes, right ;)

However, now I can't seem to reproduce the error any more.  Between 
my previous message and this one I used Python 2.1 a bit for some 
Numeric stuff, and other than that didn't touch Python.  I didn't 
reboot or anything like that.

I tried running configurePythonCarbon again to see if that would 
re-introduce the error, but it had no effect.

However, I do notice that the Apple Menu has double copies of all 
menu items in the interpreter.  It's also there in 2.1.  I guess it 
shows you how much I use the Interpreter...

>I've tried to repeat it based on your recipe but I can't. So, I guess
>either the application you're switching to is important (which one was
>it? more than one?)

It happened with Eudora, Finder and Mozilla (I tried all to see if it 
was just Eudora).  I also had iTunes and Stickies running, but didn't 
try to switch to either of those.

>  or something else in the environment. I'm trying
>at home now (iMac G3 400Mhz, OS 9.1) but I think I myself only saw the
>problem on my work machine (G4, 450Mhz, OS 9.0.4 or 9.1). I can hardly
>imagine that the CPU type is to blame, though...

For what it's worth, I have several versions of Python currently 
installed on the machine - 1.5.2, 2.0, 2.1b1 (which I really should 
get rid of) and 2.1, but I've only been using 2.1 recently.

I haven't noticed anything like this on my B&W G3 at home, but it's 
running OS X.  I haven't tried 2.1.1 on it either.

>Maybe other people could also try this, and see whether we can nail it
>down? If this is the same problem I saw it should also be there in 2.1.

Nope, but I didn't try it until just now.

I'll try rebooting and see if anything changes.

Regards,
Corran




From landauer@apple.com  Fri Jul 27 03:47:23 2001
From: landauer@apple.com (Doug Landauer)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:47:23 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1.1c2 available
In-Reply-To: <20010726110848.7348A15F45D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <B4B393BB-8239-11D5-93BA-0050E42E7B62@apple.com>

On Thursday, July 26, 2001, at 04:08 AM, Jack Jansen wrote:
> Folks,
> there's a 2.1.1c2 installer available in
> http://www.cwi.nl/ftp/jack/python/mac/newer . I think this is
> complete, but please try it.
> And I mean that: the c1 installer was tested by exactly one person (at
> least, that's how much feedback I got) ...

I have an old 8500 running Mac OS 9.0.4.

The installer seemed to work fine.

The tests run ok
  (Note:  The ReadMe says that three tests will fail,
   including test_sha.  The first time I ran it, I think
   test_sha either didn't fail, or the test harness didn't
   detect its failure.   Couldn't reproduce:  test_sha
   failed as advertised, next time I ran it.)

Had a hell of a time getting any of my scripts working;
I guess they ended up, at some point, getting Unix line-endings
on them, and the PythonInterpreter appears to still be unable
to deal with that sort of file.  Pity...  The symptom is rather
unfriendly:  the python interpreter seems to want to run the
script, it throws up an interaction window, and then says
"<terminated>".

Once past that, the other (simple) scripts I tried seemed
to work fine.

   -- Doug



From mis@creazone.com  Fri Jul 27 04:24:42 2001
From: mis@creazone.com (Michal Seta)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:24:42 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1.1c2 available
In-Reply-To: <f05001902b7863c0c5540@[131.216.77.14]>
Message-ID: <B7865739.1BD6%mis@creazone.com>

MacOS 9.1, iMac 350Mhz, 128M ram,

Install went fine.  No hungups (appleshare/file sharing was not enabled).

some tests failed:

--- snip ---

test test_zlib crashed -- exceptions.MemoryError:
106 tests OK.
3 tests failed: test_longexp test_socket test_zlib
30 tests skipped: test_al test_bsddb test_cd test_cl test_crypt test_dbm
test_dl test_fcntl test_fork1 test_gc test_gl test_grp test_imgfile
test_largefile test_linuxaudiodev test_locale test_mmap test_nis
test_openpty test_poll test_popen2 test_pty test_pwd test_signal
test_socketserver test_sunaudiodev test_sundry test_timing test_winreg
test_winsound
>>> 


cheers.


./MiS



From alczj@yahoo.es  Fri Jul 27 10:03:49 2001
From: alczj@yahoo.es (Alfonso Baciero)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 02:03:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Bug in Lib/EasyDialogs.py
Message-ID: <20010727090349.20035.qmail@web5205.mail.yahoo.com>

I found a bug in EasyDialogs in Python 2.1:

Line 280 in EasyDialogs.py (method "_update" in the
class "ProgressBar") is wrong:

	   self.d.DragWindow(where, screenbounds)

It should be:

	   self.w.DragWindow(where, screenbounds)

This bug produces an error when you try to move a
ProgressBar window.

Sincerely,

Alfonso.

P.S. I reported this bug to jack@cwi.nl but I have
checked that the bug continues in the SourceForge CVS
repository.

P.P.S. I tried to find a diff program for macintosh,
but I couldn´t (I found source files to compile with
MPW, but they were very old). Any suggestion? 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


From jack@oratrix.nl  Fri Jul 27 10:23:24 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 11:23:24 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Bug in Lib/EasyDialogs.py
In-Reply-To: Message by Alfonso Baciero <alczj@yahoo.es> ,
 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 02:03:49 -0700 (PDT) , <20010727090349.20035.qmail@web5205.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010727092324.903FC303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> I found a bug in EasyDialogs in Python 2.1:
> =

> Line 280 in EasyDialogs.py (method "_update" in the
> class "ProgressBar") is wrong:
> =

> 	   self.d.DragWindow(where, screenbounds)
> =

> It should be:
> =

> 	   self.w.DragWindow(where, screenbounds)
> =

> This bug produces an error when you try to move a
> ProgressBar window.

Thanks! I've put the fix in the repository.


> P.S. I reported this bug to jack@cwi.nl but I have
> checked that the bug continues in the SourceForge CVS
> repository.

Oops... I don't remember seeing the message, so I guess it came by at an =

inopportune moment, sorry...
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++=

Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig =
++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.=
htm =





From csmith@blakeschool.org  Sat Jul 28 00:47:24 2001
From: csmith@blakeschool.org (Christopher Smith)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 18:47:24 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDLE on Mac
Message-ID: <fc.004c4b6b00779810004c4b6b0075b8c7.779815@blakeschool.org>

Two things that I noticed in IDLE (2.1, not 2.1.1):

1) the shift-cmd-] adds a # to the line, but shift-cmd-[ doesn't remove it.
Is there a way to remove the #'s?

2) is there a graceful way to just stop in the middle of your program.
I've been using input() and when prompted just press return which 
brings up the error window which I then close.  It's less than elegant.

/c



From basicprinting@earthlink.net  Sat Jul 28 04:03:57 2001
From: basicprinting@earthlink.net (basicprinting@earthlink.net)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 23:03:57 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1.1c2 on OS8.6
Message-ID: <200107280303.UAA23784@snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

The Official Jack Jansen MacPython Website still insists
     "There are no current beta distributions."
     #You might get more flies if you bother to bait the trap.


Installation of MacPython 2.1.1c2 on OS8.6 went successfully.


Most of the items in Mac:Lib:test
     failed, crashed, whatever


All of the samples in Mac:Demo:waste
     suffered from 'zombie' windows
     that refuse to dissapear once you close them.



Double-Click PythonInterpreterClassic and it whines:
       File "Net:Applications:Python 2.1.1:PythonInterpreterClassic", line 
1
         Joy!peffpwpc
            ^
     SyntaxError: invalid syntax

     This is surprising to me, considering this machine is
     only running circa 8.6 code. (Excepting the 2.1.1c2 install)
     (True or False):
         A Mac without CarbonLib installed
         is considered Classic?
     (True or False):
         To run a Python interpreter on an non-carbon mac
         you run PythonInterpreterClassic?

         and what the heck is that icon on the Classic Interpreter?




Double-Click PythonInterpreter and it launches successfully
     >>> import test.autotest
         4 tests failed:  test_longexp  test_sha  test_socket  test_zlib
         many items were skipped because there were no modules named blah, & 
blah1, & blah2...




From kp87@lycos.com  Sat Jul 28 05:51:31 2001
From: kp87@lycos.com (kevin parks)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 13:51:31 +0900
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] diff
Message-ID: <CHAGFOKBNEJAAAAA@mailcity.com>

The best thing that i could find was in the "find differences" menu in BBedit. It is not in BBedit lite, only in the full version. 

Toast has a compare menu, but it only compares the items in a simple way, telling you if they are the same or not.

In OS X (or at least on the NeXT) there used to be an app called page merger which was an IB examples app that was actually quite useful, but then if you were on OS X you'd have the UNIX diff going in the shell, i presume.


cheers,

-kp--




Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/


From draayer@surfglobal.net  Sat Jul 28 09:07:45 2001
From: draayer@surfglobal.net (Dean & Yang Draayer)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 04:07:45 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Syntax error bug in Python IDE
Message-ID: <E15QP7I-0003PV-00@mail.python.org>

In a new Python IDE editing window, type just 'return'.  Then hit the 
Run button.  I get the following traceback:

----------
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "Manfred:Dev:Python 2.1:Mac:Tools:IDE:Wtraceback.py", line 41, 
in traceback
    self.syntaxerror()
  File "Manfred:Dev:Python 2.1:Mac:Tools:IDE:Wtraceback.py", line 59, 
in syntaxerror
    charno = charno - 1
TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for -
----------

Of course, this should give a syntax error (try it in the Python 
Interpreter window to see the correct traceback).  But it seems the 
charno variable isn't set right when the IDE wants to report the error.

Dean



From csmith@blakeschool.org  Sat Jul 28 19:23:48 2001
From: csmith@blakeschool.org (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 13:23:48 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] using IDLE and changing variables
In-Reply-To: <E15QWWT-0002KG-00@mail.python.org>
References: <E15QWWT-0002KG-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <fc.004c4b6b00779cdb3b9aca007bd0f503.779cdf@blakeschool.org>

Hi,

One thing that has been discussed recently on Tutor is the fact that 
when you make changes to a module that you are importing, the changes
won't be recognized unless you force a reload e.g., reload(mylibs).
So the reload() takes care of that.  My question concerns now the
change of variables within a definition/program.

Let's say at one point you had a variable x defined and you used it
in several places.  Then you change the variable from x to y but forget
to change it everywhere.  IDLE (at least from what I've seen) does not
warn about the uninitialized variable.  Is this just 
tough-luck-you-should-have-used-find-and-replace or is there some way
to make sure this doesn't happen (other than quitting and restarting)?

I guess what I'm looking for is something like BASIC's "new" command that
flushes out everything of the session and begins fresh.

/c



From csmith@blakeschool.org  Sat Jul 28 19:28:18 2001
From: csmith@blakeschool.org (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 13:28:18 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Syntax error bug in Python IDE
In-Reply-To: <E15QWWT-0002KG-00@mail.python.org>
References: <E15QWWT-0002KG-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <fc.004c4b6b00779ce33b9aca007bd0f503.779cea@blakeschool.org>

>In a new Python IDE editing window, type just 'return'.  Then hit the 
>Run button.  I get the following traceback:
>
>----------
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "Manfred:Dev:Python 2.1:Mac:Tools:IDE:Wtraceback.py", line 41, 
>in traceback
>    self.syntaxerror()
>  File "Manfred:Dev:Python 2.1:Mac:Tools:IDE:Wtraceback.py", line 59, 
>in syntaxerror
>    charno = charno - 1
>TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for -
>----------
>
>Of course, this should give a syntax error (try it in the Python 
>Interpreter window to see the correct traceback).  But it seems the 
>charno variable isn't set right when the IDE wants to report the error.

Oooh have I seen this recently.  It happens when I do something like
write f(i)=something when I should have written f[i]=something. I
wish for a syntax error report in this situation, too.  I'll try 
keep track of such an occurence that might help in debugging.

/c 



From dgoodger@bigfoot.com  Sat Jul 28 21:13:07 2001
From: dgoodger@bigfoot.com (David Goodger)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 16:13:07 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1.1c2 available
In-Reply-To: <20010726110848.7348A15F45D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <B7889512.15272%dgoodger@bigfoot.com>

MacOS 8.6, CarbonLib 1.3.1, PowerMac 7100/66*

2.1.1c2 installed fine, seems to run fine. I ran test.autotest and got the
expected result, ran the unittests from my own projects without surprise.

Looks good!

* Can anybody spare a machine? Contribution to a good cause (see links
below). I'm serious!

-- 
David Goodger    dgoodger@bigfoot.com    Open-source projects:
 - Python Docstring Processing System: http://docstring.sourceforge.net
 - reStructuredText: http://structuredtext.sourceforge.net
 - The Go Tools Project: http://gotools.sourceforge.net



From jwblist@olympus.net  Sat Jul 28 21:30:51 2001
From: jwblist@olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 13:30:51 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1.1c2 available
In-Reply-To: <20010726110848.7348A15F45D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010726110848.7348A15F45D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <p05101001b788cffc6bbc@[207.149.192.229]>

At 13:08 +0200 7/26/2001, Jack Jansen wrote:
>Folks,
>there's a 2.1.1c2 installer available in
>http://www.cwi.nl/ftp/jack/python/mac/newer . I think this is
>complete, but please try it.
>
>And I mean that: the c1 installer was tested by exactly one person (at
>least, that's how much feedback I got),...

I installed on (US English) Mac OS 9.1 on My Dual 533 (384 meg).  This is
the Mac OS 9.1 partition which is *not* used with Classic under Mac OS X.
I used the full installer.

I had no problems...I was able to induce the tests which crash in "small"
memory not to crash by stretching my virtual memory and giving the
interpreter 400,000K.

I haven't yet tried anything useful.  MacPython had not been installed on
this partition previously.

I've installed "mainline" Python 2.1 under Mac OS X...I don't have a need
to also install MacPython there...or at least I don't yet know I have a
need.  So I haven't tried that.

  --John

>_______________________________________________
>Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig

-- 
John Baxter   jwblist@olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA


From jack@oratrix.nl  Sun Jul 29 21:54:22 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 22:54:22 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1.1c2 on OS8.6
In-Reply-To: Message by basicprinting@earthlink.net ,
 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 23:03:57 -0400 , <200107280303.UAA23784@snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20010729205427.7B95715F46D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, basicprinting@earthlink.net said:
> The Official Jack Jansen MacPython Website still insists
>      "There are no current beta distributions."
>      #You might get more flies if you bother to bait the trap.

Nope, I don't want outsiders at the moment, due to the fact that I'm
making semi-legal use of the installer until I get a new key from
Mindvision. So it's just you pythonmac-sig folks...

> Installation of MacPython 2.1.1c2 on OS8.6 went successfully.
> 
> 
> Most of the items in Mac:Lib:test
>      failed, crashed, whatever

Hmm, that folder should probably go. None of these scripts have ever
been updated since first written. I'll add a readme to explain this.

> All of the samples in Mac:Demo:waste
>      suffered from 'zombie' windows
>      that refuse to dissapear once you close them.

Ouch! And so do the TE samples and the new MLTE sample. Could someone
with an original 2.1 installed please check this, to see whether it's
a new bug for 2.1.1 or an old one that is in 2.1 already?

> Double-Click PythonInterpreterClassic and it whines:
>        File "Net:Applications:Python 2.1.1:PythonInterpreterClassic", line 
> 1
>          Joy!peffpwpc
>             ^
>      SyntaxError: invalid syntax

This is not surprising: you shouldn't double-click
PythonInterpreterClassic or PythonInterpreterCarbon. They are
byuilding-blcosk used when ConfigurePythonOneortheother creates
PythonInterpreter. But, I agree that it may be surprising to you, the
end-user. And even if it isn't surprising the error message won't win
a prize:-)

I'll try to do something about it.

>          and what the heck is that icon on the Classic Interpreter?

It is an almost-finished application, with a bit of scaffolding in
front of it, and it's being painted. 

> Double-Click PythonInterpreter and it launches successfully
>      >>> import test.autotest
>          4 tests failed:  test_longexp  test_sha  test_socket  test_zlib

This is the bottom line: your installation works as expected.

Thanks for the feedback, I'll incorporate it for the final 2.1.1 release,
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From richard@richardgordon.net  Mon Jul 30 00:44:53 2001
From: richard@richardgordon.net (Richard Gordon)
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 19:44:53 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help me waste some time?
Message-ID: <v04205500b78a4dee04fe@[192.168.0.2]>

In the course of cleaning out some forgotten folders, I came across a 
script that some guy posted to the MacPerl list a few years ago that 
was wonderfully irritating because it made the Mac yodel. To avoid 
doing what I was supposed to be doing, I started exploring the 
possibilities of converting this into macpython, but got stuck pretty 
quickly trying to find something that equates to the perl Speech 
module. I found some sound and soundmanager stuff, but couldn't find 
anything about speech as such and am fuzzy about where to begin. If 
someone could point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it.

The original script written in the High Martian that is perl is 
below. If you happen to have a copy of MacPerl around, it should play 
ok.


#!perl

# "MacPerl Yodels" v1.0
# by David Seay <g-s@navix.net>
#

use Mac::Speech;

$channel[0] = NewSpeechChannel($Voice{'Cellos'}) or die $^E;
$pitch1 = 68;
$pitch2 = $pitch1 + 7;
$pause = .05;
for $note (0..7) {
	SetSpeechPitch $channel[0], $pitch1;
  	SpeakText $channel[0], "a";
   	select(undef, undef, undef, $pause);
	SetSpeechPitch $channel[0], $pitch2;
  	SpeakText $channel[0], "e";
   	select(undef, undef, undef, $pause);
}
SetSpeechPitch $channel[0], $pitch1 + 4;
SpeakText $channel[0], "who";

while (SpeechBusy()) {}
DisposeSpeechChannel $channel[0] if $channel[0];

Richard Gordon
--------------------
Gordon Design
Web Design/Database Development
http://www.richardgordon.net



From jwblist@olympus.net  Mon Jul 30 04:44:37 2001
From: jwblist@olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 20:44:37 -0700
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1.1c2 on OS8.6
In-Reply-To: <20010729205427.7B95715F46D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010729205427.7B95715F46D@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <p05101002b78a7d3e4e80@[207.149.192.229]>

Jack, what is supposed to happen when running the full 2.1.1c2 installer in
Mac OS X  10.0.4 (I decided to go ahead)?

What did happen at the end was the warning about ConfigurePythonCarbon
probably not working.

Right...it didn't work.

But my attempt to run it by hand left its splash window on screen for a
long time, with seemingly no action.  It did much the same when I tried
running it under Mac OS 9 (booted into the "reserved for Classic" Mac OS
9.1 which shares the Mac OS X partition).  After some false starts running
the incomplete pseudo-application (with results which now don't
matter...thanks for the explanation), and some time away from the machine,
I have now run the interpreter, getting:

Python 2.1.1c2 (#96, Jul 25 2001, 23:07:15)  [CW CARBON GUSI2 THREADS] on mac
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> print sys.path
['', 'Blake:Applications:Python 2.1.1', 'Blake:Applications:Python
2.1.1:Mac:PlugIns', 'Blake:Applications:Python 2.1.1:Mac:Lib',
'Blake:Applications:Python 2.1.1:Mac:Lib:lib-toolbox',
'Blake:Applications:Python 2.1.1:Mac:Lib:lib-scriptpackages',
'Blake:Applications:Python 2.1.1:Lib', 'Blake:Applications:Python
2.1.1:Extensions:img:Mac', 'Blake:Applications:Python
2.1.1:Extensions:img:Lib', 'Blake:Applications:Python
2.1.1:Extensions:Imaging:PIL', 'Blake:Applications:Python
2.1.1:Lib:lib-tk', 'Blake:Applications:Python 2.1.1:Lib:site-packages',
'Blake:Applications:Python 2.1.1:lib:site-packages:Numeric']
>>>

Is it likely that the configuration is roughly right?  Or do I need to do
some hand adjusting?

The autotest went well, in terms of results, EXCEPT that I find the failure
of test_bufio surprising:
test_bufio
test test_bufio failed -- Expected '1234x' got ''

[test_threadedtempfile managed to show 130% CPU usage in top (Dual 533...1
processor fully used == 100%)...highest I've happened to see).

Hmmm...perhaps the tests don't go fine:  in a second attempt (restarted the
PythonInterpreter and redid import test.autotest), the testing seems to
have hung with the last report being
test___all__
It did that for a while the first time, but started moving on when I put
another window in front and then brought PythonInterpreter.out to the front
again.  Trying to bring up the PythonInterpreter window during the seeming
pause was frustrating:  the menu would not remain pulled down.  Finally it
did, and Quit made the .out window go away but left the PythonInterpreter
as the front application.

Loading Force Quit caused an "unexpectedly quit" message for PythonInterpreter.



108 tests OK.
1 test failed: test_bufio
30 tests skipped: test_al test_bsddb test_cd test_cl test_crypt test_dbm
test_dl test_fcntl test_fork1 test_gc test_gl test_grp test_imgfile
test_largefile test_linuxaudiodev test_locale test_mmap test_nis
test_openpty test_poll test_popen2 test_pty test_pwd test_signal
test_socketserver test_sunaudiodev test_sundry test_timing test_winreg
test_winsound
>>>
-- 
John Baxter   jwblist@olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA


From jack@oratrix.nl  Mon Jul 30 09:04:18 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:04:18 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help me waste some time?
In-Reply-To: Message by Richard Gordon <richard@richardgordon.net> ,
 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 19:44:53 -0400 , <v04205500b78a4dee04fe@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <20010730080418.B81AE303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> In the course of cleaning out some forgotten folders, I came across a 
> script that some guy posted to the MacPerl list a few years ago that 
> was wonderfully irritating because it made the Mac yodel. To avoid 
> doing what I was supposed to be doing, I started exploring the 
> possibilities of converting this into macpython, but got stuck pretty 
> quickly trying to find something that equates to the perl Speech 
> module.

Try the "macspeech" module. It's only available under the classic PPC model, 
it hasn't been ported to Carbon (yet?).

There used to be a demo with it that would read out the script to Monty Python 
and the Holy Grail, with different voices selected for the different actors, 
but I'm afraid it has been lost in the mist of time...
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From alan.gauld@bt.com  Mon Jul 30 10:21:58 2001
From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:21:58 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] RE: [Tutor] using IDLE and changing variables
Message-ID: <5104D4DBC598D211B5FE0000F8FE7EB20E66BE26@mbtlipnt02.btlabs.bt.co.uk>

> when you make changes to a module that you are importing, 
> the changes won't be recognized unless you force a reload 

Correct, at the interactive prompt.

> Let's say at one point you had a variable x defined 
> and you used it in several places.  Then you change 
> the variable from x to y but forget to change it 
> everywhere.  

That'd be a programmer error in every environment I've 
ever used. Some language compilers will tell you if you 
remove the original declaration/definition of the variable 
(x in your case) and then try to use it. Python will 
warn you in some situations. But it has nothing to do 
with IDLE per se, it's all to do with Python itself.

> I guess what I'm looking for is something like BASIC's "new" 
> command that flushes out everything of the session and begins 
> fresh.

The interactive prompt doesn't have that feature but 
working in IDLE the best thing IMHO is simply to create 
a new file using File|New...

The >>> prompt is great for playing with ideas but if 
its more than a few lines of code I prefer to work in 
a file and edit/save/run - even if the file is just 
a throw-away like tmp.py of foo.py or whatever.

Alan G



From just@letterror.com  Mon Jul 30 13:00:08 2001
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 14:00:08 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Darwin Python: how to enable zlib?
Message-ID: <20010730140014-r01010700-79179a89-0910-010c@10.0.0.2>

I've just succesfully compiled and installed Python under Darwin once again, but
zlib has not been built. Do I have to install the zlib sources? I thought they
came with the OSX dev tools, but I'mnot sure. Does anyone know the magic
incantations? Thanks.

Just


From p.oberndoerfer@urheberrecht.org  Mon Jul 30 13:09:03 2001
From: p.oberndoerfer@urheberrecht.org (Pascal Oberndoerfer)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 14:09:03 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.1.1c2 available
Message-ID: <S.0000040214@urheberrecht.org>

>> [PPC 7600/132; 80MB; MacOS 8.6; CarbonLib 1.2.5]
> 
> Did you try the Carbon version only, or also the classic version? If
> you could do the latter too (if you didn't do so already) that would
> be very welcome!

Both, see below.


>> I used the active installer for the first time. Everything seems to have
>> been installed fine.
>>
>> Unfortunately I was not able to locate the python script which performs
>> all the test. Give me a hint?
>
> Start the interpreter and type
>>>> import test.autotest

Thank you.


Here are the results:


1) Classic

Python 2.1.1c2 (#96, Jul 25 2001, 23:04:16)  [CW PPC GUSI2 THREADS] on
mac
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import test.autotest

[...]

107 tests OK.
2 tests failed: test_longexp test_zlib
30 tests skipped: test_al test_bsddb test_cd test_cl test_crypt test_dbm
test_dl test_fcntl test_fork1 test_gc test_gl test_grp test_imgfile
test_largefile test_linuxaudiodev test_locale test_mmap test_nis
test_openpty test_poll test_popen2 test_pty test_pwd test_signal
test_socketserver test_sunaudiodev test_sundry test_timing test_winreg
test_winsound



2) Carbon

Python 2.1.1c2 (#96, Jul 25 2001, 23:07:15)  [CW CARBON GUSI2 THREADS]
on mac
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import test.autotest

[...]

106 tests OK.
3 tests failed: test_longexp test_sha test_zlib
30 tests skipped: test_al test_bsddb test_cd test_cl test_crypt test_dbm
test_dl test_fcntl test_fork1 test_gc test_gl test_grp test_imgfile
test_largefile test_linuxaudiodev test_locale test_mmap test_nis
test_openpty test_poll test_popen2 test_pty test_pwd test_signal
test_socketserver test_sunaudiodev test_sundry test_timing test_winreg
test_winsound




--
Pascal Oberndoerfer            Institut fuer Urheber- und Medienrecht
Wiss. Mitarbeiter                                     Salvatorplatz 1
Rechtsanwalt                                       D - 80333 Muenchen

Tel. +49 89 291954-70                     mailto:pob@urheberrecht.org
Fax: +49 89 291954-80                     http://www.urheberrecht.org



From just@letterror.com  Mon Jul 30 13:25:49 2001
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 14:25:49 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Darwin Python: Bus error with sockets
Message-ID: <20010730142552-r01010700-62f56fe9-0910-010c@10.0.0.2>

Python was built from current CVS:

[localhost:~/python] just% python
Python 2.2a0 (#1, 07/30/01, 13:21:09) 
[GCC Apple DevKit-based CPP 6.0alpha] on darwin1
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from socket import *
>>> s = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
>>> s.connect(("www.letterror.com", 80))
Bus error
[localhost:~/python] just%

Could this have anything to do with the recently added IPv6 support?

Just


From richard@richardgordon.net  Mon Jul 30 13:35:25 2001
From: richard@richardgordon.net (Richard Gordon)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 08:35:25 -0400
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help me waste some time?
In-Reply-To: <20010730080418.B81AE303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
References: <20010730080418.B81AE303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <v04205501b78b042ed686@[192.168.0.2]>

At 10:04 AM +0200 7/30/01, Jack Jansen wrote:
>Try the "macspeech" module. It's only available under the classic PPC model,
>it hasn't been ported to Carbon (yet?).

oh yeah, thanks. Sorry I guess I forgot to look in Plugins. Kind of 
odd that you have to reference voices by integer rather than name, 
isn't it? Otherwise, it looks like it will do pretty much the same as 
the perl implementation, so I'll have to play with this some. Thanks 
again.


Richard Gordon
--------------------
Gordon Design
Web Design/Database Development
http://www.richardgordon.net



From jack@oratrix.nl  Mon Jul 30 14:06:05 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:06:05 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Help me waste some time?
In-Reply-To: Message by Richard Gordon <richard@richardgordon.net> ,
 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 08:35:25 -0400 , <v04205501b78b042ed686@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <20010730130605.CBF0A303181@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> Kind of 
> odd that you have to reference voices by integer rather than name, 
> isn't it?

I think this was the very first MacPython extension module I wrote, basically 
to learn the process (back in the days when Guido himself still did MacPython 
maintainance). I'm not sure when it was written, but the initial checkin is 
from october 1994. So it predates the toolbox modules by half a year or so. 
The only two older mac modules I could find are gestalt and MacOS.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From p.oberndoerfer@urheberrecht.org  Mon Jul 30 18:05:39 2001
From: p.oberndoerfer@urheberrecht.org (Pascal Oberndoerfer)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 19:05:39 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: MacPython 2.1.1c2 available
Message-ID: <S.0000040226@urheberrecht.org>

> Did you try the Carbon version only, or also the classic version? If
> you could do the latter too (if you didn't do so already) that would
> be very welcome!
>

Meanwhile I also installed a copy on an "older" G3, 128 MB, MacOS 8.6,
no CarbonLib available. Everything seems alright:


Python 2.1.1c2 (#96, Jul 25 2001, 23:04:16)  [CW PPC GUSI2 THREADS] on
mac
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import test.autotest

[...]

106 tests OK.
3 tests failed: test_longexp test_sha test_zlib
30 tests skipped: test_al test_bsddb test_cd test_cl test_crypt test_dbm
test_dl test_fcntl test_fork1 test_gc test_gl test_grp test_imgfile
test_largefile test_linuxaudiodev test_locale test_mmap test_nis
test_openpty test_poll test_popen2 test_pty test_pwd test_signal
test_socketserver test_sunaudiodev test_sundry test_timing test_winreg
test_winsound



--
Pascal Oberndoerfer            Institut fuer Urheber- und Medienrecht
Wiss. Mitarbeiter                                     Salvatorplatz 1
Rechtsanwalt                                       D - 80333 Muenchen

Tel. +49 89 291954-70                     mailto:pob@urheberrecht.org
Fax: +49 89 291954-80                     http://www.urheberrecht.org



From scott@griffitts.com  Tue Jul 31 17:23:53 2001
From: scott@griffitts.com (Scott Griffitts)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:23:53 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: MacPython 2.1.1c2
Message-ID: <B78C45C8.232C5%scott@griffitts.com>

This install gave me the same problems on my G3 running OS 9.1 that I had
with 2.1.  During the install I get a dialog prompt warning me of a
preexisting preference file in the system folder.  (This file didn't exist
when I installed 2.1 and I trashed it when I installed 2.1.1)  The dialog
box gives you the option of continuing or quitting and rerunning
configurecarbon.  If I continue, the install appears to finish correctly.
However, when running the IDE a second apple menu appears.  When quitting
the IDE the menu bar becomes filled with gibberish and then the finder
crashes.  If I choose to quit the install and rerun configurecarbon, the
finder crashes.  After reboot and running the IDE, it experiences the same
menu bar/finder crash explained above.

With both 2.1 and 2.1.1 I have completely removed the classic/carbon install
and did a custom install of classic only and it works fine.



From jack@oratrix.nl  Tue Jul 31 23:00:22 2001
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 00:00:22 +0200
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: MacPython 2.1.1c2
In-Reply-To: Message by Scott Griffitts <scott@griffitts.com> ,
 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:23:53 -0500 , <B78C45C8.232C5%scott@griffitts.com>
Message-ID: <20010731220027.86FF8162E15@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Scott,
I have no idea what is causing your problems. They also seem to be
unique (i.e. if anyone else sees something similar: please speak up!).

Some wild guesses:
- are you using Multiple Users? I've never tried this, and it could
  well make the install fail. Is anyone else using Multiple Users?
- Are you running some virus-catching software that could cause this?
- Running off a fileserver maybe, so Python has no permission to save
  the prefs file?
- "Funny" (non-ascii) characters in your diskname? In the path to
Python?

Some other info that would be interesting:
- Does the prefs file actually exist or is Python somhow only thinking
that it exists?
- Your Apple System Profile output could be handy.

The second Apple Menu in the IDE, by the way, means that the IDE has
crashed. Unfortunately this means you can't easily find out why it did
so. Did the bare PythonInterpreter run OK?
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm