From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Dec  4 15:56:56 2000
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Dec  4 15:57:23 2000
Subject: No subject

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Message-ID: <775C7FB8CE24D31195930008C745F54301CD43@HERMES.adventure.com>
From: Hung Jung Lu <hung_jung_lu@adventure.com>
To: "'Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl'" <Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl>
Subject: Custom Folder Icon
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:05:37 -0700 
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Hi,

I would appreciate it if you could help me on this.

Right now in Mac Python, is it possible to set the hasCustomIcon bit
for a folder? (I know I can set it for a file, but I have not found anything
for folders.) I have a folder with the 'Icon\015' file inside, but I have
not been able to see the custom icon.

regards,

Hung Jung


------- End of Forwarded Message





From tom@othermedia.com  Fri Dec  1 09:17:33 2000
From: tom@othermedia.com (tom smith)
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 09:17:33 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] pyobjc-dev mailing list at SourceForge
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.30.0011301728310.9834-100000@minsky.med.Virginia.EDU>
Message-ID: <B64D1D2C.2FDB%tom@othermedia.com>

on 30/11/00 10:28 pm, Steven D. Majewski at sdm7g@minsky.med.virginia.edu
wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> There seems to now be a pyobjc-dev mailing list on SourceForge.
> 
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/pyobjc-dev
> 
> Except for the occasional progress report, pyobjc discussion
> will move there.

Will someone make an announcement here when I can run MacPython on
OSX....emacs is not my style man :-)

thanks

tom



From christian@rocketnetwork.com  Tue Dec  5 21:17:21 2000
From: christian@rocketnetwork.com (Christian Reyes)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 13:17:21 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <20001121170324.594A81D331@dinsdale.python.org>
Message-ID: <NEBBLPMCHJJIOMPHBNMMKEKECHAA.christian@rocketnetwork.com>

Ok, real quick one.
How do I get python to yield to other processes on the mac?

christian





From cbarker@jps.net  Wed Dec  6 01:29:02 2000
From: cbarker@jps.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 17:29:02 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] (no subject)
References: <NEBBLPMCHJJIOMPHBNMMKEKECHAA.christian@rocketnetwork.com>
Message-ID: <3A2D965E.91ECAC1E@jps.net>

Christian Reyes wrote:
> 
> Ok, real quick one.
> How do I get python to yield to other processes on the mac?
> 
> christian
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig

Run OSX or PPC Linux

(Sorry, I couldn't help myself)

-Chris

-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tom@othermedia.com  Wed Dec  6 09:41:41 2000
From: tom@othermedia.com (tom smith)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 09:41:41 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <NEBBLPMCHJJIOMPHBNMMKEKECHAA.christian@rocketnetwork.com>
Message-ID: <B653BA55.3146%tom@othermedia.com>

on 5/12/00 9:17 pm, Christian Reyes at christian@rocketnetwork.com wrote:

> Ok, real quick one.
> How do I get python to yield to other processes on the mac?

haha! I've just been playing with this...

My *solutions* were...

Have a look at the "framework" stuff in the mac folder. With this you can
handle you're code on an idle event...so, everytime you get an idle message,
you do a bit  more of your stuff. This results is an "always-on" application
that doesn't hog the processor...

My other *solution* was to use Tk, which has an event loop, and the
setafter() call, with which you can set how you get called back...

I could get the SchedParams() thing to let go of the processor or
time.sleep()...and threading...apart from being complicated...seems to crash
a fair bit...with me at least.

The two examples above at least work, although they're not exactly what you
want

hope this helps

tom



From jack@oratrix.nl  Wed Dec  6 09:41:36 2000
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 10:41:36 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re:
In-Reply-To: Message by "Christian Reyes" <christian@rocketnetwork.com> ,
 Tue, 5 Dec 2000 13:17:21 -0800 , <NEBBLPMCHJJIOMPHBNMMKEKECHAA.christian@rocketnetwork.com>
Message-ID: <20001206094137.F11ED3B89B3@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> Ok, real quick one.
> How do I get python to yield to other processes on the mac?

It does so automatically, in the interpreter inner loop. You can change the 
parameters (how often and how long it yields) with MacOS.SchedParams().

--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From jack@oratrix.nl  Wed Dec  6 10:44:31 2000
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 11:44:31 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Alias resource portability between MacOS9 and MacOSX
Message-ID: <20001206104431.97F803B89B3@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

Folks,
I have a strange problem that I hope someone can help with. I'm running MacOSX 
on one partition, MacOS9 on the other, with MacOSX using the 9 partition for 
its classic emulation.

The problem is that I have to recreate the Python preference file every time I 
switch from 9 to 10 or back: the alis resource that is created by the one 
system isn't understood by the other. The pathname is correct in both cases, 
so I would have guessed that ResolveAlias could hand it, but it can't.

Here's the hex data for the two alis resources:

Alis resource created while MacOS 9 ran standalone:

0000000000D200020001035361700000
00000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000B625EA7F424400000000
2B8006507974686F6E00000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000
00000000509DB5E523BF00E302160276
03D4FFFFFFFF00000000000000000000
00000000000000000005535744657600
0001000C00002B8000002B0500002B03
000200195361703A7566733A6A61636B
3A53574465763A507974686F6E00FFFF
0000

Alis created while MacOS 9 ran under MacOS X: 
0000000000D200020001035361700000
00000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000B625DC6F424400000000
2B8006507974686F6E00000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000
00000000509DB5E5079F00E302160276
03D4FFFFFFFF00000000000000000000
00000000000000000005535744657600
0001000C00002B8000002B0500002B03
000200195361703A7566733A6A61636B
3A53574465763A507974686F6E00FFFF
0000

diffs: word 28 is EA7F vs. DC6F
word 78 is 23BF vs. 079F.

Does anyone else see this same problem?
Does anyone know whether it's possible to create an alis resource that will 
work on both systems? If that is impossible, is there a way to find out 
whether we're running under standalone MacOS9 or 9-under-X, so that I can have 
two different alis resources? Or should I not bother and assume this problem 
goes away when the real MacOSX comes out and people will use either 9 or X but 
not both?
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | ++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/ ++++




From tom@othermedia.com  Wed Dec  6 10:49:56 2000
From: tom@othermedia.com (tom smith)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 10:49:56 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Alias resource portability between MacOS9 and
 MacOSX
In-Reply-To: <20001206104431.97F803B89B3@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <B653CA53.3150%tom@othermedia.com>

on 6/12/00 10:44 am, Jack Jansen at jack@oratrix.nl wrote:

> I have a strange problem that I hope someone can help with. I'm running MacOSX
> on one partition, MacOS9 on the other, with MacOSX using the 9 partition for
> its classic emulation.

Er..me too, with the same setup... I think...reading between the lines a
bit. When I run MacPython in Classic emulation...it complains that the
preferences file is corrupt or missing. When I boot again in 9, everything
is fine....I this what you mean?



From billb@mousa.demon.co.uk  Wed Dec  6 10:49:05 2000
From: billb@mousa.demon.co.uk (Bill Bedford)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 10:49:05 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <NEBBLPMCHJJIOMPHBNMMKEKECHAA.christian@rocketnetwork.com>
References: <NEBBLPMCHJJIOMPHBNMMKEKECHAA.christian@rocketnetwork.com>
Message-ID: <972460711708009822759@mousa.demon.co.uk>

At 1:17 pm -0800 05/12/00, Christian Reyes wrote:

>Ok, real quick one.
>How do I get python to yield to other processes on the mac?
>

If you need a sledgehammer approach you can bring the other process 
to the front.

_InterfaceLib = calldll.getlibrary('InterfaceLib')

_GetCurrentProcess = calldll.newcall(_InterfaceLib.GetCurrentProcess,
			'None', 'InLong')

_SetFrontProcess = calldll.newcall(_InterfaceLib.SetFrontProcess,
			'OSErr', 'InLong')

def exportart():
	buffer = array.array('c', '\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0')
	ptr = buffer.buffer_info()[0]
	_GetCurrentProcess(ptr)

	Do some apple event stuff

	_SetFrontProcess(ptr)

-- 
Bill Bedford

There has been an alarming increase in the number of things you know
nothing about.


From jack@oratrix.nl  Wed Dec  6 12:13:58 2000
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 13:13:58 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Alias resource portability between MacOS9 and
 MacOSX
In-Reply-To: Message by tom smith <tom@othermedia.com> ,
 Wed, 06 Dec 2000 10:49:56 +0000 , <B653CA53.3150%tom@othermedia.com>
Message-ID: <20001206121359.1533A3B89B3@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> Er..me too, with the same setup... I think...reading between the lines a
> bit. When I run MacPython in Classic emulation...it complains that the
> preferences file is corrupt or missing. When I boot again in 9, everything
> is fine....I this what you mean?

Yep, that's the thing. Removing the preference file and then making sure the 
first Python interpreter/applet is run from the Python home folder will fix it.

--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From fgranger@altern.org  Wed Dec  6 18:08:44 2000
From: fgranger@altern.org (Francois Granger)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 19:08:44 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <B653BA55.3146%tom@othermedia.com>
Message-ID: <B6543F3C.1D897%fgranger@altern.org>

on 6/12/00 10:41, tom smith at tom@othermedia.com wrote:

> Have a look at the "framework" stuff in the mac folder. With this you can
> handle you're code on an idle event...so, everytime you get an idle messa=
ge,
> you do a bit  more of your stuff. This results is an "always-on" applicat=
ion
> that doesn't hog the processor...

Could you, please, give a simple sample code for a real beginner with
"framework".

--=20
Fran=E7ois Granger
fgranger@altern.org



From tom@othermedia.com  Wed Dec  6 19:00:05 2000
From: tom@othermedia.com (tom smith)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 19:00:05 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <B6543F3C.1D897%fgranger@altern.org>
Message-ID: <B6543D35.318C%tom@othermedia.com>

> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--MS_Mac_OE_3058974005_3206327_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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on 6/12/00 6:08 pm, Francois Granger at fgranger@altern.org wrote:

> on 6/12/00 10:41, tom smith at tom@othermedia.com wrote:
> 
>> Have a look at the "framework" stuff in the mac folder. With this you can
>> handle you're code on an idle event...so, everytime you get an idle message,
>> you do a bit  more of your stuff. This results is an "always-on" application
>> that doesn't hog the processor...
> 
> Could you, please, give a simple sample code for a real beginner with
> "framework".

The PythonSlave app is where I started...in the mac/contrib/BBy/ folder.
Attached is my version, App_Lite.py, without all the AppleEvent Handling
stuff.

The bit you'd need to do is manage a list of things to do, and write code to
get the next_thing_to_do, then remove it from the list.... there are umpteen
ways to do that... sql database, shelve database...text files in a folder...
I would suggest using python instances, but they'd disappear when you quit
the app...

anyone else got suggestions on how to manage a queue?

tom



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From christian@rocketnetwork.com  Wed Dec  6 19:13:36 2000
From: christian@rocketnetwork.com (Christian Reyes)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 11:13:36 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] python debugger
In-Reply-To: <20001206094137.F11ED3B89B3@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <NEBBLPMCHJJIOMPHBNMMOEKNCHAA.christian@rocketnetwork.com>

Another newbie question.
How do I activate the python debugger on pythonmac ide?
Thanks,
christian 



From sdm7g@virginia.edu  Wed Dec  6 19:25:17 2000
From: sdm7g@virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 14:25:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Alias resource portability between MacOS9 and
 MacOSX
In-Reply-To: <20001206104431.97F803B89B3@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0012061420570.230-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>

I've seen this too, Jack -- in fact I mentioned it in one of my earlier
OSX reports, but I didn't dig into the details (Mostly cause I stay pretty
much in OSX unless I have an urgent need to play Bugdom!)

I forwarded your message to the macosx-dev@omnigroup.com list -- If 
I get a response, I'll forward it here. 

I wonder if it has something to do with FindFolder and the different
way that OSX has to handle preferences due to being multi-user. 

-- Steve Majewski <sdm7g@Virginia.EDU> 




From just@letterror.com  Wed Dec  6 20:26:52 2000
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 21:26:52 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] python debugger
In-Reply-To: <NEBBLPMCHJJIOMPHBNMMOEKNCHAA.christian@rocketnetwork.com>
References: <20001206094137.F11ED3B89B3@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <l03102808b6545160d36e@[193.78.237.174]>

At 11:13 AM -0800 06-12-2000, Christian Reyes wrote:
>Another newbie question.
>How do I activate the python debugger on pythonmac ide?

Choose "Enable debugger" in the little popup menu at the top right of an
edit window, then run your script.

Just




From fgranger@altern.org  Wed Dec  6 22:19:33 2000
From: fgranger@altern.org (Francois Granger)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 23:19:33 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] python debugger
In-Reply-To: <NEBBLPMCHJJIOMPHBNMMOEKNCHAA.christian@rocketnetwork.com>
References: <NEBBLPMCHJJIOMPHBNMMOEKNCHAA.christian@rocketnetwork.com>
Message-ID: <v04210103b6546b88da72@[212.27.52.178]>

At 11:13 -0800 6/12/00, in message [Pythonmac-SIG] python debugger, 
Christian Reyes wrote:
>Another newbie question.
>How do I activate the python debugger on pythonmac ide?
>Thanks,

To right of the windows, small black arrow to the right, click there is a menu.

BTW, I started a FAQ for Python Mac beginners, dig on 
http://francois.granger.free.fr and give help if you want ;-)

-- 
"Faites des phrases courtes. Un sujet, un verbe, un complément. Quand 
vous voudrez ajouter un adjectif, vous viendrez me voir." - Georges 
Clemenceau, 1841-1929, médecin et homme politique français. Consignes 
aux journalistes de "L'Aurore". d'après 
<http://www.sit.ulaval.ca/pagespersonnelles/phf/pensee.html> 


From tom@othermedia.com  Thu Dec  7 17:04:14 2000
From: tom@othermedia.com (tom smith)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 17:04:14 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] urlopen() question
In-Reply-To: <v04210103b6546b88da72@[212.27.52.178]>
Message-ID: <B655738D.31FA%tom@othermedia.com>

Jack kindly wrote me a bit of code to REALLY get a urls' data for me...along
the lines of...

def read_url(url, the_file=None):

        u = urllib.urlopen(str(url))
        rv = ''
        newdata = u.read()
    
        while newdata:
            rv = rv + newdata
            try:
                newdata = u.read()
            except:
                raise
        u.close()
        return rv

...the only problem is is that I keep getting "socket not connected errors"
which I can't catch. I need my program to keep running, so if a socket
doesn't connect, I'll try again later

any ideas?

thanks

tom



From tom@othermedia.com  Thu Dec  7 17:06:06 2000
From: tom@othermedia.com (tom smith)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 17:06:06 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] repeat loop question
Message-ID: <B65573FD.31FB%tom@othermedia.com>

n = 0
the_list = ["a", "b", "c"]

for i in the_list:
    print n, i
    n=n+1


...is there a way of getting the "count" of i without having to hand
increment n?

thanks

tom



From tom@othermedia.com  Thu Dec  7 17:07:35 2000
From: tom@othermedia.com (tom smith)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 17:07:35 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] python debugger
In-Reply-To: <v04210103b6546b88da72@[212.27.52.178]>
Message-ID: <B6557457.31FC%tom@othermedia.com>

on 6/12/00 10:19 pm, Francois Granger at fgranger@altern.org wrote:

> BTW, I started a FAQ for Python Mac beginners, dig on
> http://francois.granger.free.fr and give help if you want ;-)

I noticed an Advanced Beginners section... which made my head hurt :-)



From cbarker@jps.net  Thu Dec  7 18:42:54 2000
From: cbarker@jps.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 10:42:54 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] repeat loop question
References: <B65573FD.31FB%tom@othermedia.com>
Message-ID: <3A2FDA2E.11DECEE5@jps.net>

tom smith wrote:

> ...is there a way of getting the "count" of i without having to hand
> increment n?
> 
> thanks
> 
> tom

No, but it is a PEP (Python Enhancement Proposal), so it may be in a
future version
see:
http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0212.html

-Chris

-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From cbarker@jps.net  Thu Dec  7 18:49:05 2000
From: cbarker@jps.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 10:49:05 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] repeat loop question
References: <B65573FD.31FB%tom@othermedia.com>
Message-ID: <3A2FDBA1.FAA9E685@jps.net>

> n = 0
> the_list = ["a", "b", "c"]
> 
> for i in the_list:
>     print n, i
>     n=n+1
> 
> ...is there a way of getting the "count" of i without having to hand
> increment n?

Sorry not to put this in my last message, but these are two other
(slightly better) ways of doing it now:

Before 2.0:

	for n in range(len(the_list)):
		i = sequence[n]
		print n, i

After 2.0 (zip is a new function)

	for n, i in zip(range(len(the_list)), the_list)
		print n, i

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From fgranger@altern.org  Wed Dec  6 22:27:32 2000
From: fgranger@altern.org (Francois Granger)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 23:27:32 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <B6543D35.318C%tom@othermedia.com>
References: <B6543D35.318C%tom@othermedia.com>
Message-ID: <v04210104b6546db15c6f@[212.27.52.178]>

At 19:00 +0000 6/12/00, in message Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] (no subject), 
tom smith wrote:

>Attached is my version, App_Lite.py, without all the AppleEvent Handling
>stuff.

Thanks a lot, i'll dig into it.

-- 
"Faites des phrases courtes. Un sujet, un verbe, un complément. Quand 
vous voudrez ajouter un adjectif, vous viendrez me voir." - Georges 
Clemenceau, 1841-1929, médecin et homme politique français. Consignes 
aux journalistes de "L'Aurore". d'après 
<http://www.sit.ulaval.ca/pagespersonnelles/phf/pensee.html> 


From bobsavage@mac.com  Thu Dec  7 18:30:18 2000
From: bobsavage@mac.com (Bob Savage)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 10:30:18 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] repeat loop question
In-Reply-To: <B65573FD.31FB%tom@othermedia.com>
Message-ID: <B6551739.10C61%bobsavage@mac.com>

on 12/7/00 9:06 AM, tom smith wrote:
> 
> n = 0
> the_list = ["a", "b", "c"]
> 
> for i in the_list:
> print n, i
> n=n+1
> 
> 
> ...is there a way of getting the "count" of i without having to hand
> increment n?
> 

Remember that in your example above i is not an index into the_list, it is
the actual item. You need to use something like this instead:

>>> theList = ["a", "b", "c"]
>>> for i in range(len(theList)):
...     print i, theList[i]
... 
0 a
1 b
2 c

Bob



From ybenita@mac.com  Fri Dec  8 09:58:14 2000
From: ybenita@mac.com (Yair Benita)
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 10:58:14 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] can't exit module
Message-ID: <B6566F45.5CB%ybenita@mac.com>

Although I import the sys module the command sys.exit() doesn't work.
Here is the most simple example:
import sys

a= 7
while a<10:
    print 'this is the while loop'
    a=a+1
    if a==9:
        print 'exiting'
        sys.exit()

I always get the same error:
SystemExit:
Traceback (innermost last):
File "Script 1", line 9, in ?
      sys.exit()

I am not sure what innermost last means.
Please advise, I can't quit a module without it.

Yair Benita
Utrecht University
The Netherlands



From jack@oratrix.nl  Fri Dec  8 12:11:41 2000
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 13:11:41 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] can't exit module
In-Reply-To: Message by Yair Benita <ybenita@mac.com> ,
 Fri, 08 Dec 2000 10:58:14 +0100 , <B6566F45.5CB%ybenita@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20001208121141.B0E783B89B3@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> Although I import the sys module the command sys.exit() doesn't work.
> Here is the most simple example:
> import sys
> 
> a= 7
> while a<10:
>     print 'this is the while loop'
>     a=a+1
>     if a==9:
>         print 'exiting'
>         sys.exit()
> 
> I always get the same error:
> SystemExit:
> Traceback (innermost last):
> File "Script 1", line 9, in ?
>       sys.exit()


You're right: sys.exit() doesn't work in the IDE. In the raw interpreter it 
works fine, and indeed exits the interpreter, but in the IDE it is unclear 
what it should do.

On the one hand exiting the IDE is a possible solution, and seems to be what 
you expected. On the other hand exiting may not be what you want: if you're 
running a script that was written for Unix (which doesn't have an IDE) calling 
sys.exit() will be the normal way of terminating the script, and you wouldn't 
want to terminate the IDE in that case.

I'm not sure. Maybe there should be a preference telling the IDE what to do on 
sys.exit, either the current behaviour or exiting? A side issue is that the 
message "SystemExit" is rather obscure. Maybe it should be replaced with 
"Script called sys.exit()" or something a bit more descriptive.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From cbarker@jps.net  Fri Dec  8 18:25:07 2000
From: cbarker@jps.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 10:25:07 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] can't exit module
References: <20001208121141.B0E783B89B3@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <3A312783.49DE473E@jps.net>

Jack Jansen wrote:

> You're right: sys.exit() doesn't work in the IDE. In the raw interpreter it
> works fine, and indeed exits the interpreter, but in the IDE it is unclear
> what it should do.
> 
> On the one hand exiting the IDE is a possible solution, and seems to be what
> you expected. On the other hand exiting may not be what you want: if you're
> running a script that was written for Unix (which doesn't have an IDE) calling
> sys.exit() will be the normal way of terminating the script, and you wouldn't
> want to terminate the IDE in that case.

ARRGG! once again, a problem arising from the fundamental flaw of the
IDE: it uses the same interpreter to run itself as the scripts you are
running. This means that you are forced to have different behavior
depending on whether a script is run from the IDE or not. This
continually is causing problems like this one. We really need a way to
run a script from the IDE and have it behave exactly like running it
from the raw interpreter.

I know, I know, this is free software... if you want something, stop
complaining and do it yourself. I only wish I knew enough about Mac
programming to make this anything short of a Major project for
me...maybe I will still do it someday.

I am I really the only one who thinks this is a problem?

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From owen@astro.washington.edu  Fri Dec  8 18:37:47 2000
From: owen@astro.washington.edu (Russell E Owen)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:37:47 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] can't exit module
In-Reply-To: <3A312783.49DE473E@jps.net>
References: <20001208121141.B0E783B89B3@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
 <3A312783.49DE473E@jps.net>
Message-ID: <v04220808b656d889586a@[128.95.99.44]>

>I am I really the only one who thinks this is a problem?

I agree it's a problem, but I wonder if it's worth spending a lot of 
time trying to fix it. I'd personally much rather see IDLE up and 
running on the Mac, for two reasons:
- If IDLE cannot run on the Mac then this suggests bugs or 
limitations in MacPython that are probably important to fix.
- Any efforts to fix the development environment benefit more people 
and so potentially can muster more assistance (though of course it 
may also result in more interference).

Having said that, I have no idea why IDLE doesn't run on the Mac 
(aside from file events being broken); anybody know? I also don't 
know if it has the same problem as the IDE; I'm just getting python 
running on my first unix box these days and hope to find out.

-- Russell


From johnp@reportlab.com  Fri Dec  8 18:45:27 2000
From: johnp@reportlab.com (John Precedo)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 18:45:27 -0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] can't exit module
In-Reply-To: <3A312783.49DE473E@jps.net>
Message-ID: <GBEDIFFLINCAGNCJCLIFMEEGCAAA.johnp@reportlab.com>

Chris Barker said:
> Jack Jansen wrote:
>> You're right: sys.exit() doesn't work in the IDE. In the
raw interpreter it
>> works fine, and indeed exits the interpreter, but in the
IDE it is unclear
>> what it should do.
>>
>> On the one hand exiting the IDE is a possible solution,
and seems to be
>> what you expected. On the other hand exiting may not be
what you want...
[SNIP]
>
> ARRGG! once again, a problem arising from the fundamental
flaw of the
> IDE: it uses the same interpreter to run itself as the
scripts you are
> running. This means that you are forced to have different
behaviour
> depending on whether a script is run from the IDE or not.
This
> continually is causing problems like this one.

Personally, I find the way that the IDE behaves pretty
sensible. It does behave in the same way as the interpreter
most of the time. And when it doesn't, it seems to have a
good reason.

I would rather have one long session in the IDE, with it
stopping the program running and giving me a message telling
me it had hit a sys.exit() call, rather than having to keep
starting and re-starting the IDE every time the program
ended. That strikes me as a waste of time - and I'd be
complaining about the how annoying it would be if actually
did act like that.

If I really _want_ it to die at the sys.exit call, I run it
from the interpreter anyway. When I want to see exactly what
happens when a program runs in the interpreter, I run it in
the interpreter. Seems to make perfect sense to me! :o)

> I am I really the only one who thinks this is a problem?

Maybe not the only one. But it doesn't bother me.

The thing that does bother me is the way it behaves when you
use a "raw_input". That little pop-up box that appears for
you to type your text into is plain _annoying_! I find that
when I write a program that needs a lot of keyboard input, I
test it from the interpreter, and just use the IDE as a
glorified word processor to enter the programs with.

In this case, I think it would have made a lot more sense to
have a window that both displays output and allows you to
type text in (in the same way the it does when your run it
in the interpreter).

Oh well, the GUI isn't perfect, but the fact that sys.exit
doesn't kill it doesn't really bother me.

Anyone else have anything that bugs them about it?

--
John Precedo   (johnp@reportlab.com)
Junior Developer,   Reportlab, Inc



From fgranger@altern.org  Fri Dec  8 20:18:13 2000
From: fgranger@altern.org (Francois Granger)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 21:18:13 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] python debugger
In-Reply-To: <B6557457.31FC%tom@othermedia.com>
References: <B6557457.31FC%tom@othermedia.com>
Message-ID: <v04210107b656f20bc01c@[212.27.52.178]>

At 17:07 +0000 7/12/00, in message Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] python 
debugger, tom smith wrote:
>on 6/12/00 10:19 pm, Francois Granger at fgranger@altern.org wrote:
>
> > BTW, I started a FAQ for Python Mac beginners, dig on
> > http://francois.granger.free.fr and give help if you want ;-)
>
>I noticed an Advanced Beginners section... which made my head hurt :-)

Sorry for your head ;-)
English not being my native language ... please ...scuze ;-)

I feel that I am an "advanced beginner" in programming, and I have 
been for the last ten years.

-- 
"Faites des phrases courtes. Un sujet, un verbe, un complément. Quand 
vous voudrez ajouter un adjectif, vous viendrez me voir." - Georges 
Clemenceau, 1841-1929, médecin et homme politique français. Consignes 
aux journalistes de "L'Aurore". d'après 
<http://www.sit.ulaval.ca/pagespersonnelles/phf/pensee.html> 


From fgranger@altern.org  Fri Dec  8 21:00:56 2000
From: fgranger@altern.org (Francois Granger)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 22:00:56 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] can't exit module
In-Reply-To: <3A312783.49DE473E@jps.net>
References: <20001208121141.B0E783B89B3@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
 <3A312783.49DE473E@jps.net>
Message-ID: <v0421010bb656fb43eab0@[212.27.52.178]>

At 10:25 -0800 8/12/00, in message Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] can't exit 
module, Chris Barker wrote:
>I know, I know, this is free software... if you want something, stop
>complaining and do it yourself. I only wish I knew enough about Mac
>programming to make this anything short of a Major project for
>me...maybe I will still do it someday.
>
>I am I really the only one who thinks this is a problem?

As you say, I can't complain because I can't do anything to enhance it ;-)

I was proud of producing this code snippet copying on an idea from Tim Peters

def toBin(x):
	a = ''
	y = x
	while x:
		x, y = x / 2, y % 2
		if y:
			a = '1' + a
		else:
			a = '0' + a
		y = x
	return rjust(a,8)

My level is just as a user of pure python. And I gratefully thanks 
all people which makes it running.

-- 
"Faites des phrases courtes. Un sujet, un verbe, un complément. Quand 
vous voudrez ajouter un adjectif, vous viendrez me voir." - Georges 
Clemenceau, 1841-1929, médecin et homme politique français. Consignes 
aux journalistes de "L'Aurore". d'après 
<http://www.sit.ulaval.ca/pagespersonnelles/phf/pensee.html> 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Sun Dec 10 21:50:52 2000
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 22:50:52 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] can't exit module
In-Reply-To: Message by Chris Barker <cbarker@jps.net> ,
 Fri, 08 Dec 2000 10:25:07 -0800 , <3A312783.49DE473E@jps.net>
Message-ID: <20001210215057.BA41A116394@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Chris Barker <cbarker@jps.net> said:
> ARRGG! once again, a problem arising from the fundamental flaw of the
> IDE: it uses the same interpreter to run itself as the scripts you are
> running. This means that you are forced to have different behavior
> depending on whether a script is run from the IDE or not. This
> continually is causing problems like this one. We really need a way to
> run a script from the IDE and have it behave exactly like running it
> from the raw interpreter.

No, I don't think this is the problem here. The problem is that the
semantics of "sys.exit()" are "terminate program". And, if you're
running in an IDE, there's a question of what "program" you mean: the
script that's running or the IDE. If you chose one of these there's
bound to be someone who expects the other behaviour.

All that said I think there's definitely a good reason to have IDE
optionally use an external interpreter to do the actual work, but it
is just such an incredible amount of work to do it right. Not only do
you want stdin/stdout/stderr to be routed correctly, but you'll also
need stubs in the work-interpreter to allow the debugger and the
browser to work, etc. And the machinery needed to implement all this
in the work-interpreter may well have such an impact that you still
can't really run Tkinter scripts:-(

The good news is that once you've done this you get remote debugging
and other goodies (like using IDE to run Python scripts on your
Windows-PC, and who knows what more) for free.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From richard@richardgordon.net  Mon Dec 11 02:48:56 2000
From: richard@richardgordon.net (Richard Gordon)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 21:48:56 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] recursion problem
Message-ID: <v04205501b659f105984f@[64.1.38.58]>

hi-

I'm stuck on something that I thought would be easy, but has got me stumped.

The scenario is that I am using python to automate the construction 
of a web index page that uses one of the assorted 
expanding/collapsing file tree javascripts (e.g., it is organized 
into folders and files within folders based on the physical location 
of stuff on the server). This particular one uses <ul> and <li> tags 
along with some trick style stuff to expand or collapse various 
levels of the hierarchy and looks more or less like the windoze 
explorer stuff once the dust settles.


Anyway, walking the tree, figuring out what's a file and what's a 
directory and that kind of thing are easy, but where I'm getting 
stuck is in dealing with deeply nested folders. This will probably 
get screwed up in email, but what I want is something like:

<ul>Level0folder
	<li>L0file
	<li>L0file
	<ul>Level1folder
		<li>L1file
		<ul>Level2folder
			<li>L2file
			<li>L2file
		</ul>
		<li>L1file
	</ul>
</ul>

So I am basically just reading the top level directory, then testing 
each item to see if it is a file or a folder. If it's a file, I just 
call a function that prints '<li><a href="' + fullpath + '">' + 
filename + '</a>' while if it's a directory, I go into another 
function that is supposed to do the initial <ul> stuff, then calls 
the file printer function for each file, then closes things out with 
</ul> before passing control back to the initial treewalker.

Anyway, this is getting all screwed up as far as the closing </ul> 
tags are concerned and I have managed to create the world's widest 
web page (kind of cool if you like fractals), hit a recursion limit, 
and otherwise toyed with it until I am exasperated. The question is 
how to drill down thru an arbitrary number of subdirectories and get 
the closing </ul> tags in  the right places since the nesting 
prevents just writing one out every time you exit a directory?

Thanks for any help you may have to offer.

Richard Gordon
--------------------
Gordon Design
Web Design/Database Development
http://www.richardgordon.net


From Gerry Brush <gbrush@darwin.sfbr.org>  Mon Dec 11 18:05:06 2000
From: Gerry Brush <gbrush@darwin.sfbr.org> (Gerry Brush)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 12:05:06 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] AppleScripting from Python
Message-ID: <200012111805.MAA09929@darwin.sfbr.org>

Hello,

I'm writing as a MacPython 2.0 user.  I've followed the instructions for using 
AppleScript from the "Using Open Scripting Extension from Python" document.  
What I'm trying to do is send a script written in the QuicKeys Scripting 
Language to QuicKeys via AppleScript and DoScript.  Everything works fine execpt 
sending multiline QuicKeys scripts.  The first line is executed and the 
remaining lines are thrown away.  I've tried packaging the lines in a string 
with Mac EOL characters after each line of the script, but still no luck.  I'm 
not sure if this is specifically a MacPython problem.  Any suggestions?  Thanks.

Gerry


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Gerry Brush				  Tel: (210) 258-9613
Department of Genetics		          Fax: (210) 670-3317
Southwest Foundation for		Email: gbrush@darwin.sfbr.org
     Biomedical Research
P.O. Box 760549
San Antonio, TX 78245-0549, USA
---------------------------------------------------------------------




From just@letterror.com  Mon Dec 11 19:39:57 2000
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:39:57 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] can't exit module
In-Reply-To: <3A312783.49DE473E@jps.net>
References: <20001208121141.B0E783B89B3@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <l03102801b65acfdd437a@[193.78.237.152]>

At 10:25 AM -0800 08-12-2000, Chris Barker wrote:
>ARRGG! once again, a problem arising from the fundamental flaw of the
>IDE: it uses the same interpreter to run itself as the scripts you are
>running.

Hm, funny how that never seems to bother me...

A new Python process on the Mac takes quite a bit of time: one of the fun
parts of a Python IDE is that code is executed instantly. You'd lose that
with a separate process. Another thing that's less convenient (if it's
possible at all) with a separate process is executing snippets of scripts
or modules. It saves a lot of time: you can reload individual functions and
methods, update module globals, update the behavior of live objects, etc.

Of course, a separate process is simply neccesary when you're dealing with
event loops. But unfortunately it is more difficult to implement than it
looks, and then there's the problem that _I_ don't really need it...

>This means that you are forced to have different behavior
>depending on whether a script is run from the IDE or not. This
>continually is causing problems like this one.

I don't even agree that sys.exit() should _ever_ exit the IDE: it is a
function to end a script. The IDE catches all exceptions, so also
SystemExit. Once thing that might be nice, would be for the IDE to not
throw a traceback window at you for SystemExit. This is what I do for
KeyboardInterrupt. On the other hand, you'd lose the SystemExit argument,
so I'm not sure this is ideal.

Just




From redbird@rbisland.cx  Mon Dec 11 20:10:04 2000
From: redbird@rbisland.cx (Gordon Worley)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:10:04 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] recursion problem
In-Reply-To: <v04205501b659f105984f@[64.1.38.58]>
References: <v04205501b659f105984f@[64.1.38.58]>
Message-ID: <f05001900b65ae33b6f73@[10.50.227.9]>

At 9:48 PM -0500 12/10/2000, Richard Gordon wrote:
><ul>Level0folder
>	<li>L0file
>	<li>L0file
>	<ul>Level1folder
>		<li>L1file
>		<ul>Level2folder
>			<li>L2file
>			<li>L2file
>		</ul>
>		<li>L1file
>	</ul>
></ul>

You have made an error in your HTML.  UL is a container, and those 
can contain other elements, but not actual text to be displayed.  The 
code should read something like this:

<ul>
	<li>Level0folder
	<ul>
		<li>L0file
		<li>L0file
		<li>Level1folder
		<ul>
			<li>L1file
			<li>Level2folder
			<ul>
				<li>L2file
				<li>L2file
			</ul>
			<li>L1file
		</ul>
	</ul>
</ul>

This may be the source of your problem, depending on the rendering 
engine you use.  Even if it is not, good HTML is always important.
-- 
Gordon Worley
http://www.rbisland.cx/
mailto:redbird@rbisland.cx
PGP:  C462 FA84 B811 3501 9010  20D2 6EF3 77F7 BBD3 B003


From carraj@attglobal.net  Mon Dec 11 22:08:45 2000
From: carraj@attglobal.net (Dr Alun J. Carr)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:08:45 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] can't exit module
In-Reply-To: <l03102801b65acfdd437a@[193.78.237.152]>
References: <3A312783.49DE473E@jps.net>
 <20001208121141.B0E783B89B3@snelboot.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <l03130302b65afeb1df5c@[139.92.140.202]>

At 8:39 pm +0100 11/12/00, Just van Rossum wrote:
>At 10:25 AM -0800 08-12-2000, Chris Barker wrote:
>>ARRGG! once again, a problem arising from the fundamental flaw of the
>>IDE: it uses the same interpreter to run itself as the scripts you are
>>running.

If you look at the Wish shell for Tcl, it actually uses two Tcl
interpreters in the one program. This is what we need for the Python IDE:
the IDE executing in one interpreter, and the script in another. This might
allow the use of Tkinter in the second interpreter, if we're lucky.

I must say that I sympathize with another correspondent about the need to
fix things so that we can get IDLE running on MacOS.

Alun


==

Dr Alun J. Carr                Phone: +353-(0)1-716 1989   (Office)
Mechanical Engineering Dept           +353-(0)1-716 1752   (BRC Office)
University College Dublin      Fax:   +353-(0)1-283 0534
Belfield                       Email: alun.j.carr@ucd.ie   (UCD)
Dublin 4                              carraj@attglobal.net (Home)
Ireland





From jack@oratrix.nl  Mon Dec 11 23:06:56 2000
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 00:06:56 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] can't exit module
In-Reply-To: Message by "Dr Alun J. Carr" <carraj@attglobal.net> ,
 Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:08:45 +0000 , <l03130302b65afeb1df5c@[139.92.140.202]>
Message-ID: <20001211230702.2B931116397@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, "Dr Alun J. Carr" <carraj@attglobal.net> said:
> If you look at the Wish shell for Tcl, it actually uses two Tcl
> interpreters in the one program. This is what we need for the Python IDE:
> the IDE executing in one interpreter, and the script in another. This might
> allow the use of Tkinter in the second interpreter, if we're lucky.

Unfortunately for Python this means that one of the two interpreters
cannot use a GUI, which sort-of defeats the purpose.
Tcl/Tk doesn't have this problem because they have completely masked
the native OS GUI calls. The advantage of this is that their gui-calls 
can handle multiple threads, the disadvantage is that most MacOS
toolboxes aren't available, and those that are (QuickTime,
AppleEvents) only to a _very_ limited extent, and with quite a bit of
effort.

> I must say that I sympathize with another correspondent about the need to
> fix things so that we can get IDLE running on MacOS.

Definitely. But is seem that no-one cares enough to actually put some
work into it:-( I spent a week or so this summer in getting Tkinter to 
work again, only because people kept asking about it (I personally
abhor it) and in the hope that Tkinter development would pick up again 
once I had gotten the lowlevel stuff working, but it seems not, alas...
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From cbarker@jps.net  Mon Dec 11 15:16:41 2000
From: cbarker@jps.net (Christopher Barker)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:16:41 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] can't exit module
References: <20001208121141.B0E783B89B3@snelboot.oratrix.nl> <l03102801b65acfdd437a@[193.78.237.152]>
Message-ID: <3A34EFD9.D281D5C4@jps.net>

Just van Rossum wrote:

> I don't even agree that sys.exit() should _ever_ exit the IDE: it is a
> function to end a script. 

I have to agree with Just on this: why would you want a sys.exit() in a
script to kill the whole IDE? that kind of goes against the grain of how
the IDE works.

-Chris


-- 

Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From cbarker@jps.net  Mon Dec 11 15:18:15 2000
From: cbarker@jps.net (Christopher Barker)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:18:15 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] can't exit module
References: <3A312783.49DE473E@jps.net>
 <20001208121141.B0E783B89B3@snelboot.oratrix.nl> <l03130302b65afeb1df5c@[139.92.140.202]>
Message-ID: <3A34F037.A9660E12@jps.net>

> If you look at the Wish shell for Tcl, it actually uses two Tcl
> interpreters in the one program. This is what we need for the Python IDE:
> the IDE executing in one interpreter, and the script in another. This might
> allow the use of Tkinter in the second interpreter, if we're lucky.
> 
> I must say that I sympathize with another correspondent about the need to
> fix things so that we can get IDLE running on MacOS.

Does anyone know what IDLE does about this? Can you use another GUI
toolbox with IDLE other than tkinter?, or soes it have the same
conflicting mainloop problems?

-Chris

-- 

Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From cbarker@jps.net  Mon Dec 11 15:28:20 2000
From: cbarker@jps.net (Christopher Barker)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:28:20 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] can't exit module
References: <20001210215057.BA41A116394@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <3A34F294.29609FAB@jps.net>

Jack Jansen wrote:

> All that said I think there's definitely a good reason to have IDE
> optionally use an external interpreter to do the actual work, but it
> is just such an incredible amount of work to do it right.

I figured that. If it weren't, someone would have done it by now.

> Not only do
> you want stdin/stdout/stderr to be routed correctly, but you'll also
> need stubs in the work-interpreter to allow the debugger and the
> browser to work, etc. And the machinery needed to implement all this
> in the work-interpreter may well have such an impact that you still
> can't really run Tkinter scripts:-(

Just wrote:
> A new Python process on the Mac takes quite a bit of time: one of the fun
> parts of a Python IDE is that code is executed instantly.

would it be possible for the interpreter to "reset" itself, so that you
could start from scratch without having to actually restart the
interpreter? I suppose there would be issues with dynamically loaded
modules...



> You'd lose that
> with a separate process. Another thing that's less convenient (if it's
> possible at all) with a separate process is executing snippets of scripts
> or modules. It saves a lot of time: you can reload individual functions and
> methods, update module globals, update the behavior of live objects, etc. 
> Of course, a separate process is simply neccesary when you're dealing with
> event loops. But unfortunately it is more difficult to implement than it
> looks, and then there's the problem that _I_ don't really need it...

I think this is the big issue: different people use the IDE differently.
It works well for the way Just likes to work. Personally, I mostly write
short programs that do things like translate text files and such. I
hardly ever use any of the nifty features mentioned above, If I did, I
would parably think it was well worth the small annoyances that the
current approach has.

It is clear from what Jack wrote that doing it "right" would be a major
effort, but would it be nearly as big an effort to add a "run with raw
interpretter" option. I would personally be happy to have that, even if
I lost the debugger, browser, and some of the interactivity the user
would get a  choice as to how s/he wanted it to run.

Another bonus to adding a "restart" event to the interpreter would be
that it would be much easier to use it from other editors.

-Chris

-- 

Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From jack@oratrix.nl  Tue Dec 12 10:15:44 2000
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:15:44 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] can't exit module
In-Reply-To: Message by Christopher Barker <cbarker@jps.net> ,
 Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:18:15 +0000 , <3A34F037.A9660E12@jps.net>
Message-ID: <20001212101544.8E223371868@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> Does anyone know what IDLE does about this? Can you use another GUI
> toolbox with IDLE other than tkinter?, or soes it have the same
> conflicting mainloop problems?

Possibly. On the mac you have to write your own event loop, so if you use two 
event loops they won't know about each other, and half your events won't get 
to their destination. On X11 (or on X11+Xt actually, what almost everyone 
uses) the event loop is in the bowels of the library, and you simply register 
handlers for various events and then call the supplied event loop, so there's 
a good chance of multiple windowing packages working together. The same is 
true on Windows, with the event loop down in the OS (as far as I know). It 
will also be true on MacOS X, I think it's part of the Carbon Event Handler.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From cbarker@jps.net  Thu Dec 14 21:49:51 2000
From: cbarker@jps.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:49:51 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] wxPython
References: <20001211230702.2B931116397@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <3A39407F.2EAA4FE1@jps.net>

Jack Jansen wrote:

> I spent a week or so this summer in getting Tkinter to
> work again, only because people kept asking about it (I personally
> abhor it) 

Jack,

Have you checked out wxPython yet? Rumor has it that a port to MacPython
has been done (but not really released yet). Stepan Csomor (the wxMac
developer) posted this note to the wxWindows mailing list:

########
> Anyone working on a wxPython for Macintosh?
>  
> Philippe de Rochambeau

Milan Brunclik from Barco has done it and promised to send me the
sources,
I'll hope to have things like this and OpenGL back in the archives by
christmas

Stefan
#######

Once it's basically working, I'm sure it will need a fair bit of
tweeking, so it would be great if the MacPython crown chipped in.

wxPython would really be a great addition to MacPython. Besides
providing another cross platform GUI toolkit, it would also provide a
complete application framework, complete with a substantial number of
nice high level widgets. This would be helpful for MacPython develpment,
even if you were only writing for the Mac.

A lot for folks that don't like tk, like wx a lot (I'm one of them), so
it's worth a look.

-Chris


From rael@oreilly.com  Thu Dec 14 21:45:22 2000
From: rael@oreilly.com (Rael Dornfest)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:45:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] SimpleHTTPServer hangs OS 9
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1001214134411.22534j-100000@magic.songline.com>

Howdy,

Anyone have any idea why / how to get around Simple/BaseHTTPServer hanging
my a very recent powerbook (bronze) running OS 9.

Thanks,

Rael



From jack@oratrix.nl  Fri Dec 15 00:56:37 2000
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 01:56:37 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Breaking the circular dependencies between toolbox modules
Message-ID: <20001215005642.889D1116392@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Here's a half-baked idea I'd liek some feedback on.

Currently a lot of the toolbox modules depend on each other, mainly to 
create objects and access them. For instance, Dlg depends on Ctl,
because dialog.GetDialogItemAsControl() needs to wrap a MacOS
ControlRef in a Python ControlObj.

These dependencies have now resulted in the majority of the toolbox
modules living in PythonCore, and a few others dynamically linking to
each other. All this is getting messy, and as Steven Majevski's
messages show the headaches are getting bigger once we try to move to
Mach-O, the native MacOSX executable format.

The half-baked idea is as follows: we put placeholders for all the
object-wrapping and unwrapping routines (such as CtlObj_New and
CtlObj_Convert) in a single place (probably PythonCore, or a separate
DLL for Mach-O). These placeholders are referred to through a function 
pointer (i.e. CtlObj_New is #defined as (*CtlObj_New_routineptr)), and 
the only thing they do is import the Ctl module and then call
*CtlObj_New_routineptr again. One of the things the init module of Ctl 
does is store the address of the real wrapper function (_CtlObj_New
seems like a reasonable name) into the CtlObj_New_routineptr variable.

What do you all think? Does this sound feasible?
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | ++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/ ++++


From Mike.Crowe@us.army.mil  Mon Dec 18 16:32:08 2000
From: Mike.Crowe@us.army.mil (Mike Crowe)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:32:08 -0600
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Tkinter and Python 2.0 problem
Message-ID: <p04310100b663e83dc747@[136.205.71.114]>

I am trying to write Tkinter code in Python 2.0.  After executing any 
Tkinter command, the interpreter (or IDE) will not quit normally.

The problem occurs when I press the Quit key.  The Tk window goes 
away, but I do not get the >>> prompt back in the interpreter.  Even 
though I can still select the menus, choosing Quit from the file menu 
has no effect.  Also, Command-Q does not work.  At this point, the 
About box has changed from "About Python..." to "About Tcl & Tk".  I 
have to force quit the Python Interpreter to regain control.

Is anyone else using Tkinter, Python 2.0 on the Mac?  If so, how do 
you get it to work, and what is the best way to develop code?  Or is 
there a better way to develop cross platform Python GUI apps on the 
Mac?

I would appreciate any suggestions. 

Thanks,
Mike Crowe
---


From owen@astro.washington.edu  Mon Dec 18 16:43:36 2000
From: owen@astro.washington.edu (Russell E Owen)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:43:36 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Tkinter and Python 2.0 problem
In-Reply-To: <p04310100b663e83dc747@[136.205.71.114]>
References: <p04310100b663e83dc747@[136.205.71.114]>
Message-ID: <v04220801b663ee1ee9ef@[128.95.99.44]>

>I am trying to write Tkinter code in Python 2.0.  After executing 
>any Tkinter command, the interpreter (or IDE) will not quit normally.
>
>The problem occurs when I press the Quit key.  The Tk window goes 
>away, but I do not get the >>> prompt back in the interpreter...


In MacPython 1.5.2, and likely still in 2.0, this happens if you have 
the startup options set to continue (return to >>> prompt) after the 
script is done. I don't recall the exact name of the setting, but 
it's the first one. Make sure you run with this setting disabled. 
Then the Quit menu item works correctly and you'll no longer have to 
force-exit the interpreter after a Tkinter script.

Fundamentally, MacPython doesn't get along terribly well with 
Tkinter. We're very lucky it works as well as it does.

-- Russell

P.S. Tk file events are broken in MacPython 2.0. If you are using 
those, stick with MacPython 1.5.2 or other platforms.


From jack@oratrix.nl  Mon Dec 18 16:44:33 2000
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:44:33 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Tkinter and Python 2.0 problem
In-Reply-To: Message by Mike Crowe <Mike.Crowe@us.army.mil> ,
 Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:32:08 -0600 , <p04310100b663e83dc747@[136.205.71.114]>
Message-ID: <20001218164433.D5DE8371868@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> I am trying to write Tkinter code in Python 2.0.  After executing any 
> Tkinter command, the interpreter (or IDE) will not quit normally.

Running Tkinter things interactively in MacPython is not a good idea. As 
you've noticed Tk takes over too much, so MacPython can't get back into a 
useable state afterwards. At least: I don't know how to do it.

Running scripts that use Tkinter shouldn't be a problem.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From jimholliman@heartsoft.com  Mon Dec 18 20:53:53 2000
From: jimholliman@heartsoft.com (Jim Holliman)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:53:53 -0600
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [Pythonmac-SIG]: error -110 =?ISO-8859-1?B?oA==?=memAdrErr
Message-ID: <B663D581.F56%jimholliman>

I am running a very simple script that copies several files into a director=
y
the script creates and then deletes the originals.  It also calls the
EasyDailogs.Message() routine.

After the applet is done and the interpreter shuts itself down I receive an
error -110 message that just reposts repeatedly, forcing me to reset the
machine.  Apple lists the error as:

    -110 =A0memAdrErr Address was odd, or out of range

Any body got any ideas about this?

--=20
Thanks
Jim=20



From cbarker@jps.net  Mon Dec 18 21:11:19 2000
From: cbarker@jps.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:11:19 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Tkinter and Python 2.0 problem
References: <p04310100b663e83dc747@[136.205.71.114]>
Message-ID: <3A3E7D77.CAC659DD@jps.net>

Mike Crowe wrote:
> I have to force quit the Python Interpreter to regain control.
> 

Others have answered this for the most part but one aded note:

You may be able to use ctrl+D to quite the interpreter instead.

-Chris

-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From cbarker@jps.net  Mon Dec 18 21:14:33 2000
From: cbarker@jps.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:14:33 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Tkinter and Python 2.0 problem
References: <p04310100b663e83dc747@[136.205.71.114]>
Message-ID: <3A3E7E39.E8058B9@jps.net>

Mike Crowe wrote:

> and what is the best way to develop code?

I've found iot far more productive to develop on another platform
(Linux) and then only bring it over to the Mac when it's done. Note that
if you only have a Mac, you can run Linux on it, with PPC linux of
various flavours.

> Or is
> there a better way to develop cross platform Python GUI apps on the
> Mac?

It looks like wxPython on the Mac may happen soon, but if you need
something you can count on now, tkinter is it.

-Chris
-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From sdm7g@virginia.edu  Tue Dec 19 23:48:07 2000
From: sdm7g@virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:48:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Breaking the circular dependencies between
 toolbox modules
In-Reply-To: <20001215005642.889D1116392@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0012191838550.243-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>

Sorry I didn't reply earlier, Jack. 
My answer is: probably ... I don't know ... I'm still figuring
 out much of the OSX plumbing. I suspect there's a better way 
 (at least for OSX) but I'm not sure how to do it. 

BTW:  I was unable to check out from the MacPython CVS server. 
( I wanted to start merging some of the OSX Carbon fixes into
 the MacPython sources. ) 

I was going to try it myself rather than ask you but: 
 Does CVS or any of the Mac clients do anything about line endings ? 
 I had to convert the line endings ( tr '\r' '\n' ) of the MacPython
 sources to read and compile them on OSX. How are they stored on the
 CVS server ? 


--- Steve Majewski <sdm7g@Virginia.EDU>




On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Jack Jansen wrote:

> Here's a half-baked idea I'd liek some feedback on.
> 
> Currently a lot of the toolbox modules depend on each other, mainly to 
> create objects and access them. For instance, Dlg depends on Ctl,
> because dialog.GetDialogItemAsControl() needs to wrap a MacOS
> ControlRef in a Python ControlObj.
> 
> These dependencies have now resulted in the majority of the toolbox
> modules living in PythonCore, and a few others dynamically linking to
> each other. All this is getting messy, and as Steven Majevski's
> messages show the headaches are getting bigger once we try to move to
> Mach-O, the native MacOSX executable format.
> 
> The half-baked idea is as follows: we put placeholders for all the
> object-wrapping and unwrapping routines (such as CtlObj_New and
> CtlObj_Convert) in a single place (probably PythonCore, or a separate
> DLL for Mach-O). These placeholders are referred to through a function 
> pointer (i.e. CtlObj_New is #defined as (*CtlObj_New_routineptr)), and 
> the only thing they do is import the Ctl module and then call
> *CtlObj_New_routineptr again. One of the things the init module of Ctl 
> does is store the address of the real wrapper function (_CtlObj_New
> seems like a reasonable name) into the CtlObj_New_routineptr variable.
> 
> What do you all think? Does this sound feasible?
> --
> Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
> Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
> www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | ++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/ ++++
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
> 



From tom@othermedia.com  Wed Dec 20 11:21:05 2000
From: tom@othermedia.com (tom smith)
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:21:05 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Tkinter and Python 2.0 problem
In-Reply-To: <p04310100b663e83dc747@[136.205.71.114]>
Message-ID: <B66646A1.3A2A%tom@othermedia.com>

on 18/12/00 9:14 pm, Chris Barker at cbarker@jps.net wrote:

> Mike Crowe wrote:
> 
>> and what is the best way to develop code?

I always make my Tkinter python files have the creator 'Pyth', so when I
double click them the interpreter fires up, NOT the IDE. Or I drag them onto
the interpreter. Setting the preference so that the interpreter doesn't hang
around after the app quits makes it feel more natural.

It reminds me a little of the HyperCard problem, where nobody wanted so see
even the tiniest trace of HyperCard as a stack was launched... no
'HyperCard' in the menu bar...no File, Edit, Go menus... Because most of my
scripts are personal widgets I've learned to live with the poor aesthetics..

Once I finish my script, I normally save it as an Applet, so that I never
accidentally run it in the interpreter. (when I normally have other unsaved
and unsaveable scripts on the go)



From Mike.Crowe@us.army.mil  Wed Dec 20 20:11:58 2000
From: Mike.Crowe@us.army.mil (Mike Crowe)
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:11:58 -0600
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Tkinter and Python 2.0 problem
In-Reply-To: <B66646A1.3A2A%tom@othermedia.com>
References: <B66646A1.3A2A%tom@othermedia.com>
Message-ID: <p04310100b666c2d2a78e@[136.205.71.114]>

Thank you all for your suggestions and info!

Mike Crowe
---

>on 18/12/00 9:14 pm, Chris Barker at cbarker@jps.net wrote:
>
>>  Mike Crowe wrote:
>>
>>>  and what is the best way to develop code?
>
>I always make my Tkinter python files have the creator 'Pyth', so when I
>double click them the interpreter fires up, NOT the IDE. Or I drag them onto
>the interpreter. Setting the preference so that the interpreter doesn't hang
>around after the app quits makes it feel more natural.
>
>It reminds me a little of the HyperCard problem, where nobody wanted so see
>even the tiniest trace of HyperCard as a stack was launched... no
>'HyperCard' in the menu bar...no File, Edit, Go menus... Because most of my
>scripts are personal widgets I've learned to live with the poor aesthetics..
>
>Once I finish my script, I normally save it as an Applet, so that I never
>accidentally run it in the interpreter. (when I normally have other unsaved
>and unsaveable scripts on the go)
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
>http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig



From moroo@jp.fujitsu.com  Tue Dec 26 23:11:58 2000
From: moroo@jp.fujitsu.com (Moroo Jun)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 08:11:58 +0900
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] urllib problem
Message-ID: <p04320400b66ed52c689e@[10.36.72.173]>

I tried to run follow program, Python 1.5.2c get all text from web site,
but Python 2.0 doesn't.
In Solaris 2.6, the same program can get all text from web site both with
Python 1.5.2 and Python 2.0.

--- Begin ---
import urllib

a=urllib.urlopen("http://www.yahoo.co.jp/")
d=a.read()
f=open("yahoo.html","wb")
f.write(d)
f.close()
a.close()
--- End ---

I tried them on:
Powerbook G3/333 OS 8.6
PowerMacintosh 9600/233 OS 9.0

-- 
moroo@jp.fujitsu.co.jp
Fujitsu Laboratories LTD.


From moroo@jp.fujitsu.com  Tue Dec 26 23:24:56 2000
From: moroo@jp.fujitsu.com (Moroo Jun)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 08:24:56 +0900
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python 2.0 installing problem
Message-ID: <p04320401b66ed64face9@[10.36.72.173]>

If the path to Python 2.0 directory has Japanese directory name, Installing 
does not finish. It says "ImportError: No module named macfsn".
Maybe other two byte encoding system ex. Chinese or Korea have same problem.

If a file named foo placed on System:"APURIKE_SHON":foo, a Python get 
filename as follows.
System:\203A\203v\203\212\203P\201[\203V\203\207\203\223:foo

"APURIKE_SHON" is Japanese encoded string.
-- 
moroo@jp.fujitsu.co.jp
Fujitsu Laboratories LTD.


From jack@oratrix.nl  Wed Dec 27 09:33:48 2000
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 10:33:48 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python 2.0 installing problem
In-Reply-To: Message by Moroo Jun <moroo@jp.fujitsu.com> ,
 Wed, 27 Dec 2000 08:24:56 +0900 , <p04320401b66ed64face9@[10.36.72.173]>
Message-ID: <20001227093348.BC1903C0BB9@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

> If the path to Python 2.0 directory has Japanese directory name, Installing 
> does not finish. It says "ImportError: No module named macfsn".
> Maybe other two byte encoding system ex. Chinese or Korea have same problem.
> 
> If a file named foo placed on System:"APURIKE_SHON":foo, a Python get 
> filename as follows.
> System:\203A\203v\203\212\203P\201[\203V\203\207\203\223:foo
> 
> "APURIKE_SHON" is Japanese encoded string.

That could indeed be a problem: I never thought about 2-byte character sets. I 
also have no idea how FSSpecs and such are implemented for 2-byte charsets.

Could you try running the following commands in that APURIKE_SHON folder 
(easiest is probably to put them in a script and run that script from the that 
folder)?
- print sys.prefix
- print sys.path
- open("foo")
- os.getcwd()
- open(os.path.join(os.getcwd(), "foo"))
- fss = macfs.FSSpec("foo"); print fss
- print fss.as_pathname()
- alias = fss.NewAlias()
- alias.Resolve().as_pathname()

Also, option-starting Python and setting the "trace import statements" bit 
should give a bit more information.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From tmk@easynet.be  Wed Dec 27 10:34:31 2000
From: tmk@easynet.be (Tattoo Mabonzo K.)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:34:31 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python 2.0 and MultiUser
Message-ID: <200012271034.eBRAYWZ00301@metis.microscript.be>

Yo,

I'm not @ my home machine for the moment but I've noticed that there's a =
problem running Python from an account other than the owner's.

I get an error message stating something 'bout a failed import quite =
early in the process of launching Python (be it the IDE or the =
interpreter).

1.5.2c1 works fine though.  2.0 works fine from the owner account.

Sorry for the incomplete report but I wanted to know if anyone has =
observed a similar problem.=20
I'll report the exact error message this evening.

TIA

=3D tmk =3D=


From tmk@easynet.be  Wed Dec 27 10:37:03 2000
From: tmk@easynet.be (Tattoo Mabonzo K.)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:37:03 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Python 2.0 and MultiUser
Message-ID: <200012271037.eBRAb4U00304@metis.microscript.be>

On Wednesday, December 27, 2000, at 11:34 AM, Tattoo Mabonzo K. wrote:

> Yo,=20
> =20
> I'm not @ my home machine for the moment but I've noticed that there's =
a problem running=20
> Python from an account other than the owner's.=20
> =20
> I get an error message stating something 'bout a failed import quite =
early in the process=20
> of launching Python (be it the IDE or the interpreter).=20

FWIW, as far as I recall the import failed because the macfsn could'nt =
be found.

> =20
> 1.5.2c1 works fine though.  2.0 works fine from the owner account.=20
> =20
> Sorry for the incomplete report but I wanted to know if anyone has =
observed a similar=20
> problem. =20
> I'll report the exact error message this evening.=20
> =20
> TIA=20
> =20
> =3D tmk =3D=20
> =20


From tmk@easynet.be  Thu Dec 28 14:33:21 2000
From: tmk@easynet.be (Tattoo Mabonzo K.)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 15:33:21 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] urllib problem
Message-ID: <200012281433.eBSEXLq00307@metis.usertalk.com>

Yo,

I got caught by that one already.

But as always, Jack was quick to point to the solution. Please below. I =
copy-paste=20
his answer.

--- cut

Hi,
that's not broken, it's only strange. There is absolutely no guarantee =
how=20
much a read() on a socket will return. The correct way to read all data =
is to=20
do
  x =3D urllib.urlopen(....)
  alldata =3D ''
  while 1:
    next =3D x.read()
    if not next: break
    alldata =3D alldata + next

However, as it often happens on unix that you get all data in one read =
call,=20
and sometimes on MacOS too, it's easy to think that read should return=20=

everything.

Note that read() on files does guarantee that it returns all data.

--- cut

On Wednesday, December 27, 2000, at 12:11 AM, Moroo Jun wrote:

> I tried to run follow program, Python 1.5.2c get all text from web =
site,=20
> but Python 2.0 doesn't.=20
> In Solaris 2.6, the same program can get all text from web site both =
with=20
> Python 1.5.2 and Python 2.0.=20
> =20
> --- Begin ---=20
> import urllib=20
> =20
> a=3Durllib.urlopen("http://www.yahoo.co.jp/")=20
> d=3Da.read()=20
> f=3Dopen("yahoo.html","wb")=20
> f.write(d)=20
> f.close()=20
> a.close()=20
> --- End ---=20
> =20
> I tried them on:=20
> Powerbook G3/333 OS 8.6=20
> PowerMacintosh 9600/233 OS 9.0=20
> =20
> -- =20
> moroo@jp.fujitsu.co.jp=20
> Fujitsu Laboratories LTD.=20
> =20
> _______________________________________________=20
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org=20
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig=20
> =20
> =20


From jack@oratrix.nl  Thu Dec 28 16:04:45 2000
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:04:45 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Python 2.0 and MultiUser
In-Reply-To: Message by "tmk@mac" <tmk@mac.com> ,
 Thu, 28 Dec 2000 14:17:00 +0100 , <B670FBDB.97E7%tmk@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20001228160450.D13AC116396@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Bingo!
when you run Python as another user you don't have the preference
file, apparently each user has a completely distinct set of
preferences files. Therefore, each user that wants to use Python must
run InstalPython first. Otherwise the default sys.prefix will be set
to whereever the first Python applet was run from.

I'll add a note to the readme file, and I'll also add some code to be
a bit more intelligent about setting the sys.prefix preference (I
could for instance skip this if the folder from which we're run does
not contain  :Lib and :Mac subfolders).
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From cbarker@jps.net  Fri Dec 29 21:35:37 2000
From: cbarker@jps.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 13:35:37 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] NumPy extensions on the Mac
References: <200012111805.MAA09929@darwin.sfbr.org>
Message-ID: <3A4D03A9.55B97ED7@jps.net>

Has anyone gotten C extensions on the Mac working with NumPy Arrays
(PyArrayObject)?

I'm having assorted problems. I have an extension I wrote on Linux, and
it works just fine there. I am having a bear of a time getting it
working on the Mac.

I'm using MacPython 1.5.2c1, and CodeWarrior Pro 5.

At the moment my problem is that 

PyArray_Check()  doesn't seem to work, it return false whether I pass in
a NumPy array or any other object. I can probably get my extension to
work without this, but I won't be able to have any type checking on the
input, and when a bad type is passed in, the results are ugly.

Has anyone gotten this working?

If you have gotten useful NumPy array based extension working, I'd love
to see any cod eyou would be willing to send me.

This has been very frustrating! It is taking me longer to get this
working ont he Mac, that it took to get the whole thing written on
Linux, ewven though I had never written a Python extension before, and
have barely written any C programs at all.

thanks for any help anyone can give.

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From patrick@swdev.com  Sat Dec 30 06:04:09 2000
From: patrick@swdev.com (Patrick Curtain)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 22:04:09 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] building extensions on OSX
Message-ID: <20001230060344.XOAZ17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@patrickspb>

Howdy All!

Please, forgive me in advance for all the idiotic statements I'm likely =
to make, but....

I'm running OSX, Python 2.0b1 and trying to build the MySQLdb extension.

I've built it, after a lot of fussing, directing the setup.py script to =
the Python-2.0b1 directory to find libpython and such.

Now, though, if I try to import the module, i get the following:

dyld: python multiple definitions of symbol _Pickler_setattr
python definition of _Pickler_setattr
/usr/local/lib/python2.0/site-packages/_mysql.so definition of =
_Pickler_setattr

And python dumps to the shell prompt.

I'm sure there's more and more to tell before this can make sense to =
anyone, but let me start here.  Thanks for ANY help at all.  :)

--p


Patrick Curtain, Husband & Father  ( i also write software )
    503/781.6199                     http://www.swdev.com/=


From cpsoct@lycos.com  Sat Dec 30 18:11:43 2000
From: cpsoct@lycos.com (kevin parks)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 03:11:43 +0900
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] love python, but Discouraged with Mac IDLE
Message-ID: <PKHHFEGMPDDDBAAA@mailcity.com>

I am very new to python and perhaps am speaking out of turn here, but please note that i love python, the python community and am extreemly grateful that the langauge even runs on a mac, but i have to say, IDLE is really unpleasant on the Mac. As far as i can tell there is no sytax coloring (looked and looked and looked..) and no pretty printing help no formatting tools, even more noteworthy, no line numbers! I thought that i was crazy, well ok, but i downloaded python onto a pc (yucky) and installed it just to see IDLE in action, and it was super sweet. Also i was used to using alpha to hack tcl and that was pretty sweet as well (people claim there is a python mode for that but i fail to see that as well). Can we look forward to basic nice-ities in macIdle or are these always going to be beyond us because of things that the OS forbids? I hate the PC, have no access to UNIX (god help me, my beloved NeXT is far far away) and am stuck on a mac for the time being ($), and in a twisted way occasionally like the mac for my other tasks (audio). I know that it is a lot of work and that many folks work hard to bring us mac python, but i really want to enjoy hacking with python more than i do and i find that IDLE and the interpreter (another topic altogether) is what keeps me from being productive and happy. The language is freaky awesome, the mac can be cool sometimes too, but the thing inbetween: IDLE is the discouraging part. I hope no one is angry at this post. It was meant to be constructive. Like when your wife, whom you love to no end, tries something with her hair that just isn't working....


best,

kevin parks
seoul, korea

cpsoct@lycos.com

PS. the mac-specific docs are no day at the beach either!





Get FREE Email/Voicemail with 15MB at Lycos Communications at http://comm.lycos.com


From jack@oratrix.nl  Sun Dec 31 12:23:55 2000
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 13:23:55 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] NumPy extensions on the Mac
In-Reply-To: Message by Chris Barker <cbarker@jps.net> ,
 Fri, 29 Dec 2000 13:35:37 -0800 , <3A4D03A9.55B97ED7@jps.net>
Message-ID: <20001231122400.8651E143DD5@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Recently, Chris Barker <cbarker@jps.net> said:
> I'm using MacPython 1.5.2c1, and CodeWarrior Pro 5.
> 
> At the moment my problem is that 
> 
> PyArray_Check()  doesn't seem to work, it return false whether I pass in
> a NumPy array or any other object.

This is usually a sign that you have two copies of the numpy code,
probably the one that is a Python extension and another one that is
linked to your extension. Type checking works by comparing the
addresses of the typeobject pointer in the PyObject struct, so this
hypothesis is easy to check with the codewarrior debugger.

I'm not sure about the details under 1.5.2 (it's been a long time) but 
you have to make sure that your extension is linked against the .slb
that contains the numeric module, and that the two are in the same
folder during runtime (there's a few other ways to make sure the right 
one is found, but this is the easiest).

--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From jack@oratrix.nl  Sun Dec 31 12:29:27 2000
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 13:29:27 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] building extensions on OSX
In-Reply-To: Message by Patrick Curtain <patrick@swdev.com> ,
 Fri, 29 Dec 2000 22:04:09 -0800 , <20001230060344.XOAZ17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@patrickspb>
Message-ID: <20001231122932.0F7DD143DD5@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

I haven't played with OSX a lot yet, but I have heard the rumour that
it is extremely picky about multiple definitions (on most systems,
include MacOS9 and most Unixes Im familiar with, this would be a
warning at most, and Python and mysql would happily use their local
copy of Pickler_setattr).

But, on to the problem: it seems you're including cpickle.c in your
shared library. Which you don't have to do, because it's already in Python.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm