From sdm7g@virginia.edu  Thu Jan  7 22:19:05 1999
From: sdm7g@virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:19:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] problems building on OS 8.5.1 with QuickTime 3 installed.
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.96.990107170337.19971A-100000@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU>

( BTW: The "mac.pdf" in the 1.5.2 pdf-letter docs package seens to  
    be corrupt, however, The separate 1.5.1 "libmac.pdf" in the mac
    ftp directory appears to be OK. ) 

    I had an awful time trying to recompile Tk libraries. 
    CodeWarrior compiler  kept failing on include *.bmp  lines. 
    Files were where they were supposed to be, but they weren't 
      text files so CodeWarrior wouldn't include them. 
    They all had a quick-time icon, but clicking on them got an
      error message. 
    Looked at them in alpha text editor -- they contained text. 
    Tried to change creator/type with Python script. 
    Formerly working script didn't seem to work. Tried it 
     interactively and found that changing the creator/type 
     worked if I changed type to something other than 'TEXT', 
     but when I changed them to text, they got changed to 
     something else. 

   *FINALLY* discovered I had to turn off QuickTime Exchange from
     the QuickTime Settings control panel! ( There's some really
     strange magic going on with QuickTime Exchange! <GROAN> ) 


-- Steve Majewski 



From pcurtain@swdev.com  Tue Jan 12 03:59:44 1999
From: pcurtain@swdev.com (Patrick Curtain)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:59:44 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Timeline for 1.5.2?
Message-ID: <369AC883.5D0251DA@swdev.com>

Howdy all!

I'm hoping someone has a timeline on 1.5.2, anyone?  I'm hoping it fixes
stability and applet quirks.

:)  (yes, of course I should ask questions if I have a problem... but...
i haven't!)

Have a GREAT week, all!
--p
~~
  Patrick Curtain, Husband & Father (I also write Software)
  patrick@swdev.com,                  http://www.swdev.com/




From joe@strout.net  Tue Jan 12 22:31:32 1999
From: joe@strout.net (Joseph J. Strout)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:31:32 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python and the future of MacOS
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.96.990107170337.19971A-100000@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU>
Message-ID: <v03130302b2c17c9d68dc@[198.202.70.218]>

I'm helping my boss pick a language to carry the lab into the next decade.
We need number-crunching, image-processing, a decent GUI, and a good clean
syntax (he's currently a LISP addict).  Naturally I suggested Python.  One
concern I must research is this: how will Python on the Mac continue to
work as MacOS evolves?  MacOS X is coming out next month; when can we
expect to see Python running under that version of the OS?

My guess is, since MacOS X is basically Unix, and since Python already
compiles for various Unices relatively smoothly, it will work fine under
MacOS X.  The main issue is the current Mac modules; they'll need to be
updated for the Carbon API.  Can we expect this to happen?

Basically, my boss is a little nervous about a product that doesn't have
anybody's livlihood depending on keeping it stable and up-to-date.  I just
need some reassuring words from somebody In The Know that MacPython is
still quite actively supported, and is likely to stay that way for the
forseeable future.

Thanks,
-- Joe


,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout           developer: MacOS, Unix, 3D, AI     |
|    joe@strout.net             http://www.strout.net              |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'




From steve@estel.uindy.edu  Tue Jan 12 23:22:34 1999
From: steve@estel.uindy.edu (Steve Spicklemire)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:22:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python and the future of MacOS
In-Reply-To: <v03130302b2c17c9d68dc@[198.202.70.218]> (joe@strout.net)
Message-ID: <199901122322.SAA27986@estel.uindy.edu>

Plain old Python compiles fine on DR2. (I only had a problem with the
'fabs' function in mathmodule.c, I couldn't find the problem, so I
just wrote my own and rebuilt...).


-steve


From sdm7g@virginia.edu  Tue Jan 12 23:29:30 1999
From: sdm7g@virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:29:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python and the future of MacOS
In-Reply-To: <v03130302b2c17c9d68dc@[198.202.70.218]>
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.96.990112180820.19452B-100000@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU>

On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Joseph J. Strout wrote:

> I'm helping my boss pick a language to carry the lab into the next decade.
> We need number-crunching, image-processing, a decent GUI, and a good clean
> syntax (he's currently a LISP addict).  Naturally I suggested Python.  One
> concern I must research is this: how will Python on the Mac continue to
> work as MacOS evolves?  MacOS X is coming out next month; when can we
> expect to see Python running under that version of the OS?
> 
> My guess is, since MacOS X is basically Unix, and since Python already
> compiles for various Unices relatively smoothly, it will work fine under
> MacOS X.  The main issue is the current Mac modules; they'll need to be
> updated for the Carbon API.  Can we expect this to happen?
> 

Carbon is fairly source compatible with the current MacOS -- it 
subtracts more than it adds -- so updateing to Carbon should be
easy. 

Yellow Box is mostly OpenStep/NextStep. I believe there is also 
a Next port of Python with NextStep interfaces. ( There is an
objective-C sig -- you should probably check the archives of that
list for current status. ) 

What is comming out next month is OS X *SERVER*, which is basically
NextStep, not quite the same as the final OS X release. The problem
with that is the pricetag - $995.00 . ( I wish I had grabbed on of
the beta CDs Apple was handing out when I had a chance, but I didn't
believe they would price it that high! ) I expect final OS-X will
be more consumer priced, but the current price severely limits the
number of people likely to work on Carbon or Yellow box ports before
the final release. ( I had heard earlier noises that there was going
to be a special academic price -- maybe even source licenses for 
universities. If that turns out to be true, it would be great -- but
I expect that talk was still for the final OS-X . A lot of the current
problems, including why the pulled distribution of the developer beta
CDs has to do with 3rd part licensing, particularly Adobe Display PS. ) 


---|  Steven D. Majewski   (804-982-0831)  <sdm7g@Virginia.EDU>  |---
---|  Department of Molecular Physiology and Biological Physics  |---
---|  University of Virginia             Health Sciences Center  |---
---|  P.O. Box 10011            Charlottesville, VA  22906-0011  |---

Redmond, WA (AP) -- Microsoft announced today that the official release
date for the new operating system "Windows 2000" will be delayed until 
the second quarter of 1901.



From steve@estel.uindy.edu  Tue Jan 12 23:45:37 1999
From: steve@estel.uindy.edu (Steve Spicklemire)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:45:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python and the future of MacOS
In-Reply-To: <199901122322.SAA27986@estel.uindy.edu> (message from Steve Spicklemire on Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:22:34 -0500 (EST))
Message-ID: <199901122345.SAA28095@estel.uindy.edu>

Forgot to mention..... I have no idea about Carbon...

I'm guessing that Carbon will be in MOXS, but I really
don't know...

-steve

>>>>> "Steve" == Steve Spicklemire <steve@estel.uindy.edu> writes:

    Steve> Plain old Python compiles fine on DR2. (I only had a
    Steve> problem with the 'fabs' function in mathmodule.c, I
    Steve> couldn't find the problem, so I just wrote my own and
    Steve> rebuilt...).


From jeffrey@Digicool.com  Wed Jan 13 00:01:23 1999
From: jeffrey@Digicool.com (Jeffrey P Shell)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:01:23 -0500
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python and the future of MacOS
Message-ID: <199901130001.TAA00702@albert.digicool.com>

>From: Steve Spicklemire <steve@estel.uindy.edu>
> Forgot to mention..... I have no idea about Carbon...
>
> I'm guessing that Carbon will be in MOXS, but I really
> don't know...
>
> -steve

From what I've heard, Carbon (the final version) is not yet complete.
Hence the name MacOS X Server, which still uses "The Blue Box" for MacOS
Compatibility.  Carbon will enable Carbon-dated (?) MacOS Apps to run
without the blue box on MacOS X.  And since most existing MacOS Apps are
supposed to be 90-95% Carbon Complient already, this shouldn't be a major
issue and will give Carbon apps more freedom inside of MacOS X than a
'traditional' Blue Box app.

Carbon will also ship as libraries for MacOS 8.x and 9 (if there is a 9)
and will give those OS's high compatibility with new and future apps,
regardless of whether it was written for MacOS or MacOS X.

But I'm not expecting any sort of Carbon release before summer.  Although
the big developer conference (WWDC) may hold some surprises.

BTW: We're looking at the possibility of a Mac port of Zope (
http://www.zope.org ).  Is there any market for MacOS 8.x based web
application platforms outside of what already exists? (Filemaker and
friends)?  Or would efforts be better placed at a MacOS X Server based
solution?  (which would face stiff competition with WebObjects since WO is
part of the hefty MOSX price tag.  And there's reportedly good Python/WO
integration anyways).  It's been years since I've dealt with C code or any
sort of low-level plumbing, and I'm guessing some of the low level zope
stuff could be a heavy baptism by fire scenario into MacOS development.
I/We (Digital Creations) want to make sure such an effort would be worth
it.

(And, since Zope is Open Source, if anybody else want's to do this, feel
more than free :-)


From steve@estel.uindy.edu  Wed Jan 13 00:50:46 1999
From: steve@estel.uindy.edu (Steve Spicklemire)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:50:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python and the future of MacOS
In-Reply-To: <199901130001.TAA00702@albert.digicool.com> (jeffrey@Digicool.com)
Message-ID: <199901130050.TAA28318@estel.uindy.edu>

Well.. I got BoboHTTPServer.py to work OK on MacOS already. I'm
guessing that the various zope extensions would build fine, but you would
probably need to ship binary shared libs, since most Mac folks don't
have a compiler sitting around for free. I guess I should try
that. ;-) I've gotten rather frustrated with MacOS development since I
still haven't been able to get my Python-Director XTra to work on
MacOS.. I'm hoping that it will be easy/ier on MacOS X. I wonder if
I got my client to agree to release the source to the plug in... are
there any MacOS experts out there who whould be willing to help get
it running on MacOS?

-steve

>>>>> "Jeffrey" == Jeffrey P Shell <jeffrey@Digicool.com> writes:

    >> From: Steve Spicklemire <steve@estel.uindy.edu> Forgot to
    >> mention..... I have no idea about Carbon...
    >> 
    >> I'm guessing that Carbon will be in MOXS, but I really don't
    >> know...
    >> 
    >> -steve

    >> From what I've heard, Carbon (the final version) is not yet
    >> complete.
    Jeffrey> Hence the name MacOS X Server, which still uses "The Blue
    Jeffrey> Box" for MacOS Compatibility.  Carbon will enable
    Jeffrey> Carbon-dated (?) MacOS Apps to run without the blue box
    Jeffrey> on MacOS X.  And since most existing MacOS Apps are
    Jeffrey> supposed to be 90-95% Carbon Complient already, this
    Jeffrey> shouldn't be a major issue and will give Carbon apps more
    Jeffrey> freedom inside of MacOS X than a 'traditional' Blue Box
    Jeffrey> app.

    Jeffrey> Carbon will also ship as libraries for MacOS 8.x and 9
    Jeffrey> (if there is a 9) and will give those OS's high
    Jeffrey> compatibility with new and future apps, regardless of
    Jeffrey> whether it was written for MacOS or MacOS X.

    Jeffrey> But I'm not expecting any sort of Carbon release before
    Jeffrey> summer.  Although the big developer conference (WWDC) may
    Jeffrey> hold some surprises.

    Jeffrey> BTW: We're looking at the possibility of a Mac port of
    Jeffrey> Zope ( http://www.zope.org ).  Is there any market for
    Jeffrey> MacOS 8.x based web application platforms outside of what
    Jeffrey> already exists? (Filemaker and friends)?  Or would
    Jeffrey> efforts be better placed at a MacOS X Server based
    Jeffrey> solution?  (which would face stiff competition with
    Jeffrey> WebObjects since WO is part of the hefty MOSX price tag.
    Jeffrey> And there's reportedly good Python/WO integration
    Jeffrey> anyways).  It's been years since I've dealt with C code
    Jeffrey> or any sort of low-level plumbing, and I'm guessing some
    Jeffrey> of the low level zope stuff could be a heavy baptism by
    Jeffrey> fire scenario into MacOS development.  I/We (Digital
    Jeffrey> Creations) want to make sure such an effort would be
    Jeffrey> worth it.

    Jeffrey> (And, since Zope is Open Source, if anybody else want's
    Jeffrey> to do this, feel more than free :-)


From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Wed Jan 13 11:28:54 1999
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:28:54 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python and the future of MacOS
In-Reply-To: Message by "Joseph J. Strout" <joe@strout.net> ,
 Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:31:32 -0800 , <v03130302b2c17c9d68dc@[198.202.70.218]>
Message-ID: <UTC199901131128.MAA06492.jack@snelboot.cwi.nl>

> My guess is, since MacOS X is basically Unix, and since Python already
> compiles for various Unices relatively smoothly, it will work fine under
> MacOS X.  The main issue is the current Mac modules; they'll need to be
> updated for the Carbon API.  Can we expect this to happen?

Python is relatively carbon-ready. Because most modules are generated from the 
header files they're all well-behaved (mostly). The two issues that I found 
with the carbon-dater are the event-lookahead for command-dot processing (but 
that should be easy to fix) and the Standard File dialogs. If someone wants to 
write a Navigation Services module I would be very grateful, I definitely want 
one soon, but I'm a bit stuck for time.

Another question is how the integration between the unix and the macos api's 
will be...
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From joe@strout.net  Wed Jan 13 22:42:01 1999
From: joe@strout.net (Joseph J. Strout)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:42:01 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] why is PIL so out of date in Mac distribution?
Message-ID: <v04020a00b2c2d0cd8f05@[198.202.70.218]>

I downloaded a fresh copy of Mac Python (1.5.1) this week, and installed
PIL (called "Imaging" by the installer).  It installed 0.3a1 (June 2,
1997), at least according to the ReadMe -- an ancient version.  Apparently
PIL hasn't been standing still since then; somebody from the image-sig
point out:

>Frederik Lundh announced the availability of version 1.0b1 just a few
>days ago.  See
>
>http://www.python.org/pipermail/image-sig/1999-January/000603.html

Why is my copy so out of date?  Did I goof up somehow, or is it just a
matter of none of us Mac wheels squeaking loudly enough?  (Squeak squeak!)

Thanks,
-- Joe

P.S. Is anybody able to get ahold of Just van Rossum?  I've tried several
addresses for him, and they all bounce.
,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout           developer: MacOS, Unix, 3D, AI     |
|    joe@strout.net             http://www.strout.net              |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'


From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Thu Jan 14 10:02:04 1999
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:02:04 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] why is PIL so out of date in Mac distribution?
In-Reply-To: Message by "Joseph J. Strout" <joe@strout.net> ,
 Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:42:01 -0800 , <v04020a00b2c2d0cd8f05@[198.202.70.218]>
Message-ID: <UTC199901141002.LAA09679.jack@snelboot.cwi.nl>

> I downloaded a fresh copy of Mac Python (1.5.1) this week, and installed
> PIL (called "Imaging" by the installer).  It installed 0.3a1 (June 2,
> 1997), at least according to the ReadMe -- an ancient version.

MacPython 1.5.2b1, which will be out today or tomorrow, contains the new PIL 
version. 0.3b2 was still the current release (at least, as far as I know) when 
1.5.1 came out.


> P.S. Is anybody able to get ahold of Just van Rossum?  I've tried several
> addresses for him, and they all bounce.

just@letterror.com works for me...
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From managan@llnl.gov  Wed Jan 20 18:43:25 1999
From: managan@llnl.gov (Rob Managan)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:43:25 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] LLNL Release #9 now available
Message-ID: <v04011702b2cbd163f0eb@[128.115.232.99]>

I have compiled LLNL Release #9 of the Numeric module for the Macintosh.
For this week it is available at
<ftp://west.llnl.gov/pub/users/managan/Numeric9.sit.hqx>

This archive expands into a folder that I put into the Extensions folder.
Teh readme.mac file tells you what paths to add with EditPythonPrefs.

After the 26th the server will change. I will send another message at that
time once I confirm that all is working.
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-**-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Rob Managan       mailto://managan@llnl.gov
LLNL                      ph:  925-423-0903
P.O. Box 808, L-098       FAX: 925-423-5804
Livermore, CA  94551-0808



From managan@llnl.gov  Wed Jan 20 18:43:25 1999
From: managan@llnl.gov (Rob Managan)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:43:25 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] LLNL Release #9 now available
Message-ID: <v04011702b2cbd163f0eb@[128.115.232.99]>

I have compiled LLNL Release #9 of the Numeric module for the Macintosh.
For this week it is available at
<ftp://west.llnl.gov/pub/users/managan/Numeric9.sit.hqx>

This archive expands into a folder that I put into the Extensions folder.
Teh readme.mac file tells you what paths to add with EditPythonPrefs.

After the 26th the server will change. I will send another message at that
time once I confirm that all is working.
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-**-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Rob Managan       mailto://managan@llnl.gov
LLNL                      ph:  925-423-0903
P.O. Box 808, L-098       FAX: 925-423-5804
Livermore, CA  94551-0808



From managan@llnl.gov  Wed Jan 20 19:19:25 1999
From: managan@llnl.gov (Rob Managan)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:19:25 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] LLNL Release #9 now available
Message-ID: <v04011702b2cbd163f0eb@[128.115.232.99]>

I have compiled LLNL Release #9 of the Numeric module for the Macintosh.
For this week it is available at
<ftp://west.llnl.gov/pub/users/managan/Numeric9.sit.hqx>

This archive expands into a folder that I put into the Extensions folder.
Teh readme.mac file tells you what paths to add with EditPythonPrefs.

After the 26th the server will change. I will send another message at that
time once I confirm that all is working.
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-**-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Rob Managan       mailto://managan@llnl.gov
LLNL                      ph:  925-423-0903
P.O. Box 808, L-098       FAX: 925-423-5804
Livermore, CA  94551-0808



From joe@strout.net  Wed Jan 20 23:18:11 1999
From: joe@strout.net (Joseph J. Strout)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:18:11 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] reading/writing binary data?
Message-ID: <v03130303b2cc14207256@[198.202.70.218]>

I need to read a data file composed of integers in binary (Mac) format.  I
can't find anyway to do this -- it seems I can either open in text mode,
and read in strings, or open in binary mode, and read in raw characters.
That leaves me doing silly things like

def ReadInt4(file):
	bytes = file.read(4)
	return \
		(ord(bytes[0]) << 24) | 	\
		(ord(bytes[1]) << 16) | 	\
		(ord(bytes[2]) << 8) |	\
		(ord(bytes[3]))

...and, needless to say, this is  v e r y   s l o w  on large files.
Surely I'm missing the simple way to open a binary file and read in short
or long ints (or even whole lists of ints?) at once.  Could somebody please
point out what I'm missing?

Thanks,
-- Joe

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout           developer: MacOS, Unix, 3D, AI     |
|    joe@strout.net             http://www.strout.net              |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'




From da@skivs.ski.org  Wed Jan 20 23:19:37 1999
From: da@skivs.ski.org (David Ascher)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:19:37 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] reading/writing binary data?
In-Reply-To: <v03130303b2cc14207256@[198.202.70.218]>
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.04.9901201518410.262-100000@rigoletto.ski.org>

On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Joseph J. Strout wrote:

> or long ints (or even whole lists of ints?) at once.  Could somebody please
> point out what I'm missing?

My guess would be, the struct module and its unpack() function.

--david




From just@letterror.com  Thu Jan 21 00:21:15 1999
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 01:21:15 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] reading/writing binary data?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.04.9901201518410.262-100000@rigoletto.ski.org>
References: <v03130303b2cc14207256@[198.202.70.218]>
Message-ID: <l03102805b2cc22a40c9a@[193.78.237.163]>

At 3:19 PM -0800 1/20/99, David Ascher wrote:
>On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Joseph J. Strout wrote:
>
>> or long ints (or even whole lists of ints?) at once.  Could somebody please
>> point out what I'm missing?
>
>My guess would be, the struct module and its unpack() function.

Yeah, and read the docs for special "operators" for endian-ness.


If you're talking about arrays of ints, the array module comes in handy:

import array

a = array.array("h")  # array of signed short ints
a.fromstring("\0\1\0\2")   # two raw shorts
print a

(Or even NumPy, but that might be overkill.)

Just




From joe@strout.net  Thu Jan 21 00:26:06 1999
From: joe@strout.net (Joseph J. Strout)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:26:06 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] reading/writing binary data?
In-Reply-To: <l03102805b2cc22a40c9a@[193.78.237.163]>
References: <Pine.WNT.4.04.9901201518410.262-100000@rigoletto.ski.org>
 <v03130303b2cc14207256@[198.202.70.218]>
Message-ID: <v03130308b2cc241b355d@[198.202.70.218]>

Just noted:

>Yeah, and read the docs for special "operators" for endian-ness.

Saw that -- in this case, the endian-ness is correct, but it's good to know
for the future.

>If you're talking about arrays of ints, the array module comes in handy:
>
>import array
>
>a = array.array("h")  # array of signed short ints
>a.fromstring("\0\1\0\2")   # two raw shorts

That's cool!  I didn't know about that one either.

>(Or even NumPy, but that might be overkill.)

Actually, I *am* stuffing NumPy arrays from a file at one point.  But I
didn't see any way to load such a beast from a file, other than reading it
in parts as a string, converting to ints (now with struct.unpack), and
stuffing it.  I suppose you're going to tell me I'm *still* doing it the
hard way?

Sigh... every time I think something is difficult in Python, it turns out
that I'm doing it wrong!

Thanks again,
-- Joe


,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout           developer: MacOS, Unix, 3D, AI     |
|    joe@strout.net             http://www.strout.net              |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'




From just@letterror.com  Thu Jan 21 00:38:21 1999
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 01:38:21 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] reading/writing binary data?
In-Reply-To: <v03130308b2cc241b355d@[198.202.70.218]>
References: <l03102805b2cc22a40c9a@[193.78.237.163]>
 <Pine.WNT.4.04.9901201518410.262-100000@rigoletto.ski.org>
 <v03130303b2cc14207256@[198.202.70.218]>
Message-ID: <l03102806b2cc262fe231@[193.78.237.163]>

At 4:26 PM -0800 1/20/99, Joseph J. Strout wrote:
>>(Or even NumPy, but that might be overkill.)
>
>Actually, I *am* stuffing NumPy arrays from a file at one point.  But I
>didn't see any way to load such a beast from a file, other than reading it
>in parts as a string, converting to ints (now with struct.unpack), and
>stuffing it.  I suppose you're going to tell me I'm *still* doing it the
>hard way?

It's pretty easy with NumPy:

>>> from Numeric import *
>>> a = arange(10)
>>> a
array([0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9])
>>> a.tostring()
'\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\002\000\000\000\003\000\000\000\00
4\000\000\000\005\000\000\000\006\000\000\000\007\000\000\000\010\000\000\000\01
1'
>>> fromstring(_, Int)
array([0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9])
>>>

If you don't need to be compatible with other apps and if you use a recent
NumPy you can also use cPickle: it's really fast and convenient.

Just




From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Thu Jan 21 12:42:50 1999
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:42:50 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 1.5.2b1 available
Message-ID: <UTC199901211242.NAA03139.jack@snelboot.cwi.nl>

Python 1.5.2b1 for the macintosh is (finally!) available. As usual, the 
distribution comes as a single installer that can install PPC, 68K (either 
classic memory model or cfm68k) and/or fat versions, and it will optionally 
install the C-developer toolkit, Tk, NumPy, PIL imaging and img subsystems.
Many thanks go to Just van Rossum for creating the installer!

See www.python.org for details on what is new in Python 1.5.2b1. There are 
very few new Macintosh-specific features.

A separate full source distribution is also available.

Everything can be found at http://www.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython.html or 
ftp://ftp.cwi.nl/pub/jack/python/mac .
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From just@letterror.com  Thu Jan 21 13:15:57 1999
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:15:57 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: MacPython 1.5.2b1 available
In-Reply-To: <UTC199901211242.NAA03139.jack@snelboot.cwi.nl>
Message-ID: <l03102807b2ccd6ca720c@[193.78.237.154]>

Jack Jansen wrote:
>Python 1.5.2b1 for the macintosh is (finally!) available.

A couple of highlights:

- includes NumPy 1.9 (PPC only)
- includes PIL 1.0b1
- new applet BuildApplication: builds standalone binaries *without* the
need of a compiler (a first!!!)
- source code of my Mac IDE is included under a Python-style licence

Note on Guido's Idle IDE:
- it works, but the shortcuts seem to come from Mars if you're a Mac
person. It would be great if someone with Idle & Tk experience could take a
look at that (but be sure to talk to Guido).

Just




From just@letterror.com  Thu Jan 21 17:52:53 1999
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:52:53 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] IDE & Debugger & breakpoints
Message-ID: <l03102816b2cd1911101e@[193.78.237.154]>

First IDE bug:

Setting/clearing debugger breakpoints does not work properly. I'll try to
fix it.

It's because bdb.py's interface is not backwards compatible.

Stupid enough, I did know about it, but forgot :-(

Just




From joe@strout.net  Fri Jan 22 16:34:15 1999
From: joe@strout.net (Joseph J. Strout)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:34:15 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] plotting package for MacOS?
Message-ID: <v04020a0bb2ce580d7d9c@[198.202.70.212]>

Any recommendations on a plotting package for MacOS?  I'm especially
interested in scientific plots, i.e., I want to replace Matlab with NumPy,
but I need Matlab's powerful graphing and plotting capabilities.

I looked over the list at
	http://starship.skyport.net/crew/jhauser/plot-res.html

but none of them sound too promising.

If none is available -- and assuming I can convince my boss to let us stick
with Python anyway -- then I'll be writing one.  The idea I've been kicking
around involves a plot object to which you assign functions to do the
low-level drawing (lines, polygons, text, etc.).  So the plot engine would
be portable; you'd just plug in functions to use your native drawing
commands (or not -- maybe you'd plug in postscript drawing commands, or
gdmodule (GIF) functions, or whatever).

But that's the sort of thing the plot-sig is presumably interested in... is
there already such a package in the works?

Thanks,
-- Joe
,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout           developer: MacOS, Unix, 3D, AI     |
|    joe@strout.net             http://www.strout.net              |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'


From managan@llnl.gov  Fri Jan 22 16:59:41 1999
From: managan@llnl.gov (Rob Managan)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:59:41 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: [Plot-SIG] plotting package for MacOS?
In-Reply-To: <v04020a0bb2ce580d7d9c@[198.202.70.212]>
Message-ID: <v04011700b2ce5e1cc49a@[128.115.232.99]>

>Any recommendations on a plotting package for MacOS?  I'm especially
>interested in scientific plots, i.e., I want to replace Matlab with NumPy,
>but I need Matlab's powerful graphing and plotting capabilities.
>
>I looked over the list at
>	http://starship.skyport.net/crew/jhauser/plot-res.html
>
>but none of them sound too promising.
>

Something I have been interested in as well. You might want to look at the
Gist package in the LLNL release. They have some object oriented graphics
that interface to Gist and Narcisse. I started to see if I could set up an
interface to plplot since I have that running on the Mac and never had time
to do much.

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-**-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Rob Managan       mailto://managan@llnl.gov
LLNL                      ph:  925-423-0903
P.O. Box 808, L-098       FAX: 925-423-5804
Livermore, CA  94551-0808



From boyle5@llnl.gov  Fri Jan 22 17:06:30 1999
From: boyle5@llnl.gov (Jim Boyle)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:06:30 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: [Plot-SIG] plotting package for MacOS?
In-Reply-To: <v04020a0bb2ce580d7d9c@[198.202.70.212]>
Message-ID: <v03130300b2ce5ef0b9cf@[192.12.134.105]>

Joe Strout wrote:

>Any recommendations on a plotting package for MacOS?  I'm especially
>interested in scientific plots, i.e., I want to replace Matlab with NumPy,
>but I need Matlab's powerful graphing and plotting capabilities.
>
>I looked over the list at
>	http://starship.skyport.net/crew/jhauser/plot-res.html
>
>but none of them sound too promising.
>
>If none is available -- and assuming I can convince my boss to let us stick
>with Python anyway -- then I'll be writing one.  The idea I've been kicking
>around involves a plot object to which you assign functions to do the
>low-level drawing (lines, polygons, text, etc.).  So the plot engine would
>be portable; you'd just plug in functions to use your native drawing
>commands (or not -- maybe you'd plug in postscript drawing commands, or
>gdmodule (GIF) functions, or whatever).
>
>But that's the sort of thing the plot-sig is presumably interested in... is
>there already such a package in the works?
>

This does not solve your problem but suggests a direction for development.
Recently, it was announced that OpenGl would be a part of the MacOS maybe
with 8.6? This would a appear to be a portable and powerful way to go all
the way from line plots to 3d rendering. The python extension for OpenGl is
pretty good and complete.

Jim Boyle




From da@skivs.ski.org  Fri Jan 22 17:59:48 1999
From: da@skivs.ski.org (David Ascher)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:59:48 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] plotting package for MacOS?
In-Reply-To: <v04020a0bb2ce580d7d9c@[198.202.70.212]>
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.04.9901220949070.277-100000@rigoletto.ski.org>

On Fri, 22 Jan 1999, Joseph J. Strout wrote:

> Any recommendations on a plotting package for MacOS?  I'm especially
> interested in scientific plots, i.e., I want to replace Matlab with NumPy,
> but I need Matlab's powerful graphing and plotting capabilities.
> 
> I looked over the list at
> 	http://starship.skyport.net/crew/jhauser/plot-res.html
> 
> but none of them sound too promising.

FYI, also look at:
 
  http://www.python.org/topics/scicomp/plotting.html

> If none is available -- and assuming I can convince my boss to let us stick
> with Python anyway -- then I'll be writing one.  The idea I've been kicking
> around involves a plot object to which you assign functions to do the
> low-level drawing (lines, polygons, text, etc.).  So the plot engine would
> be portable; you'd just plug in functions to use your native drawing
> commands (or not -- maybe you'd plug in postscript drawing commands, or
> gdmodule (GIF) functions, or whatever).
> 
> But that's the sort of thing the plot-sig is presumably interested in... is
> there already such a package in the works?

I am working on something called Snow: 

  http://starship.skyport.net/~da/Snow/

I've been working on it recently, but only as I need specific features
(the downside of scratch-an-itch development). I really *will* release
this when I've fixed the most significant design flaws that I know of.  I
don't think any of them are extremely hard to fix, I just need time to
focus on them from a higher vantage point than I have been able to
recently.  As it stands, I keep having to muck with the framework when I
tackle a new plot -- it's just not useable by anyone but me, I fear.

There's no reason it shouldn't work under MacOS, although my favorite mode
of usage (OpenGL within a Tk widget) won't work until someone writes a
Togl-like widget for the Mac.  Now *that* would be a good contribution
from a mac hacker.  (Togl is at:
http://www.ssec.wisc.edu/~brianp/Togl.html)

--david

PS: I've been amazed at how hard it is to do plotting right.  Serves me
    right for being so arrogant about it for so many years.



From savage@2xtreme.net  Sat Jan 23 04:53:23 1999
From: savage@2xtreme.net (Bob Savage)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:53:23 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] icon/graphic & shadow-mask
Message-ID: <v03102801b2cefe68941c@[209.63.216.70]>

Here's a very basic question. I am a little confused as to where to go next.

I have slowly been learning how to do programming with Python, and I've
reached the point where I am learning Tkinter, because doing things with
the language itself (behind the scenes) is starting to make sense. I am
also starting to make some sense of the underlying Tkinter paradigm, and I
am attempting to write a simple game in Python using Tkinter. But I'm
missing something pretty basic: how do I make a graphic with an irregular
outline showup properly against an meaningful background?

I was going to create a grid of "frame" widgets each with its own
background color to represent different "squares" on a "board" with
differing types of terrain. I figure this will all work pretty well because
I can use a dictionary to access both the "squares" and the visual
representations of those squares in a given view of the board. I'm very
excited about this because working with the dictionary takes care of a lot
of problems I was initially considering (like determining whether a given
square would actually be off the boundary of the board). And I *thought*
the use of frame for the representation of the square would also help me
place the icon for a gamepiece in the right spot. But I'm not sure how to
put a graphic in there and still be able to see around it so that it is
obvious what kind of terrain it is on.

Is this where I switch to learning about the IMG library? Or is there a
better place for me to be looking, given that I have been having some
success with Tkinter so I would like it to be compatible with Tkinter.

thanks for any help,

newbie -> Bob <- newbie

Bob Savage

_________________________________________________________________________

                        e^mail  -> savage@2xtreme.net
_________________________________________________________________________




From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Mon Jan 25 14:56:11 1999
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:56:11 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Sherlock plugins for Python
Message-ID: <UTC199901251456.PAA14276.jack@snelboot.cwi.nl>

This is a multipart MIME message.

--==_Exmh_-6071031800
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Attached you will find two plugins for Sherlock, the all-singing-all-dancing 
search engine that Apple includes with MacOS 8.5.

The Python.src plugin searches www.python.org, ftp.python.org and 
starship.skyport.net, just like the "easy" search on the python homepage does.

The Python-FAQ.src plugin searches the FAQ. It is not 100% functional: the 
URLs returned by the FAQ search engine contain "&amp;", which should be 
converted to "&" upon clicking the link in Sherlock, but this does not work. 
I'm not sure whether the FAQ engine is wrong in using ampersand escapes in 
URLs or Sherlock is wrong in not understanding them, or I am wrong in not 
telling Sherlock to interpret them. If anyone has a fix I'd be glad to hear it.

The plugins are, of course, auto-updating: if a new one is available you will 
be told about it when you run sherlock.

Maybe we should prod the www.python.org maintainers to make a new search 
category "documentation only". This would be really handy...
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


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--==_Exmh_-6071031800--




From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Mon Jan 25 16:04:38 1999
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:04:38 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] icon/graphic & shadow-mask
In-Reply-To: Message by Bob Savage <savage@2xtreme.net> ,
 Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:53:23 -0800 , <v03102801b2cefe68941c@[209.63.216.70]>
Message-ID: <UTC199901251604.RAA14939.jack@snelboot.cwi.nl>

> I have slowly been learning how to do programming with Python, and I've
> reached the point where I am learning Tkinter, because doing things with
> the language itself (behind the scenes) is starting to make sense. I am
> also starting to make some sense of the underlying Tkinter paradigm, and I
> am attempting to write a simple game in Python using Tkinter. But I'm
> missing something pretty basic: how do I make a graphic with an irregular
> outline showup properly against an meaningful background?

Bob,
as your question appears to be more Tkinter-specific than Mac-specific, and 
since I haven't seen any answers come by (nor do I have a clue myself:-), 
maybe you should try asking a more general forum, like comp.lang.python?
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From peter.sommerfeld@gmx.de  Tue Jan 26 12:42:40 1999
From: peter.sommerfeld@gmx.de (Peter Sommerfeld)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:42:40 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Floating windows
Message-ID: <v04003a01b2d365042264@[195.180.62.142]>

Sorry folks, my Mac documentation is somewhat outdated.
I need to know how to make floating windows. In windows.py
are some constants defined but my trial & error attempts
failed. Do you have any idea / example code ?

thanks

- Peter




From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Tue Jan 26 13:17:13 1999
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:17:13 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] And another Sherlock plugin...
Message-ID: <UTC199901261317.OAA24586.jack@snelboot.cwi.nl>

This is a multipart MIME message.

--==_Exmh_-20654168420
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Since Guido graciously made the Python documentation searchable separately 
here is another Sherlock plugin that only searches the docs. This plugin also 
has a set of icons, so you can quickly see which search results were returned 
by one of the Python plugins. The other two plugins also have icons now, but 
there's no need to attach them here: they'll auto-update the next time you use 
sherlock.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


--==_Exmh_-20654168420
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--==_Exmh_-20654168420--




From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Tue Jan 26 13:31:32 1999
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:31:32 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Floating windows
In-Reply-To: Message by Peter Sommerfeld <peter.sommerfeld@gmx.de> ,
 Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:42:40 +0100 , <v04003a01b2d365042264@[195.180.62.142]>
Message-ID: <UTC199901261331.OAA24981.jack@snelboot.cwi.nl>

> Sorry folks, my Mac documentation is somewhat outdated.
> I need to know how to make floating windows. In windows.py
> are some constants defined but my trial & error attempts
> failed. Do you have any idea / example code ?

I don't think you can make floating windows in Python at the moment. If 
someone can point me to the right bits of Inside Mac and it isn't too much 
work I can have a look at implementing them, though.

Or, alternatively, if someone does know how to make floating windows 
currently: please let me know as well.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From just@letterror.com  Tue Jan 26 14:07:20 1999
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:07:20 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Floating windows
In-Reply-To: <UTC199901261331.OAA24981.jack@snelboot.cwi.nl>
References: Message by Peter Sommerfeld <peter.sommerfeld@gmx.de> ,
 Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:42:40 +0100 , <v04003a01b2d365042264@[195.180.62.142]>
Message-ID: <l03102802b2d37c732067@[193.78.237.137]>

At 2:31 PM +0100 1/26/99, Jack Jansen wrote:
>> Sorry folks, my Mac documentation is somewhat outdated.
>> I need to know how to make floating windows. In windows.py
>> are some constants defined but my trial & error attempts
>> failed. Do you have any idea / example code ?
>
>I don't think you can make floating windows in Python at the moment. If
>someone can point me to the right bits of Inside Mac and it isn't too much
>work I can have a look at implementing them, though.
>
>Or, alternatively, if someone does know how to make floating windows
>currently: please let me know as well.

I think it should/could be a feature of FrameWork.py.

Just




From managan@llnl.gov  Tue Jan 26 16:56:20 1999
From: managan@llnl.gov (Rob Managan)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:56:20 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Floating windows
In-Reply-To: <l03102802b2d37c732067@[193.78.237.137]>
References: <UTC199901261331.OAA24981.jack@snelboot.cwi.nl> Message by
 Peter Sommerfeld <peter.sommerfeld@gmx.de> ,	     Tue, 26 Jan 1999
 13:42:40 +0100 , <v04003a01b2d365042264@[195.180.62.142]>
Message-ID: <v04011701b2d3a33e7ccf@[128.115.232.99]>

>At 2:31 PM +0100 1/26/99, Jack Jansen wrote:
>>> Sorry folks, my Mac documentation is somewhat outdated.
>>> I need to know how to make floating windows. In windows.py
>>> are some constants defined but my trial & error attempts
>>> failed. Do you have any idea / example code ?
>>
>>I don't think you can make floating windows in Python at the moment. If
>>someone can point me to the right bits of Inside Mac and it isn't too much
>>work I can have a look at implementing them, though.
>>
>>Or, alternatively, if someone does know how to make floating windows
>>currently: please let me know as well.
>
>I think it should/could be a feature of FrameWork.py.
>

The manager invovled here is the Text Services Manager. In the Info-Mac
archives look for appe-windows-203-c.hqx for a shell that shows how to
create floating windows. Haven't done it myself though.

So suppose that means Jack will want someone to provide a module for this
manager if he hasn't already!!
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-**-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Rob Managan       mailto://managan@llnl.gov
LLNL                      ph:  925-423-0903
P.O. Box 808, L-098       FAX: 925-423-5804
Livermore, CA  94551-0808



From savage@2xtreme.net  Tue Jan 26 18:24:40 1999
From: savage@2xtreme.net (Bob Savage)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:24:40 -0800
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] icon/graphic & shadow-mask (solution)
In-Reply-To: <UTC199901251604.RAA14939.jack@snelboot.cwi.nl>
References: <Message by Bob Savage <savage@2xtreme.net>
 <v03102801b2cefe68941c@[209.63.216.70]>
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19990125144452.008b9100@bsavage.pobox.stanford.edu>

>Bob,
>as your question appears to be more Tkinter-specific than Mac-specific, and 
>since I haven't seen any answers come by (nor do I have a clue myself:-), 
>maybe you should try asking a more general forum, like comp.lang.python?

Thanks to Jack & everyone else for the ideas. Although I would eventually
like to learn more mac-specific programming techniques, I think I will
stick with Tkinter for now to build on the little I have already managed to
learn. Unfortunately this seems to be an area of Tkinter that is still
obfuscated by TCL-based and/or Unix-oriented examples. So far I was only
able to find two examples of Canvas showing images that worked on my Mac.

In case anyone is interested I think I have a basic solution, but it might
be dependant on the 1.5.2.x distribution which includes an updated PIL (one
could use Gif89a or PNG format to get the effect).

As soon as I can, I will put together the stuff I learned with sample code
and post it to comp.lang.python so the next guy has a chance of turning
something up in the archives.

Again, thanks to all, for suggestions and encouragement!

Bob


Bob


From peter.sommerfeld@gmx.de  Tue Jan 26 19:16:50 1999
From: peter.sommerfeld@gmx.de (Peter Sommerfeld)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:16:50 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Floating windows
In-Reply-To: <UTC199901261331.OAA24981.jack@snelboot.cwi.nl>
References: Message by Peter Sommerfeld <peter.sommerfeld@gmx.de> ,
 Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:42:40 +0100 , <v04003a01b2d365042264@[195.180.62.142]>
Message-ID: <v04003a01b2d3bf13f623@[195.180.62.169]>

[Jack Jansen]
>I don't think you can make floating windows in Python at the moment. If
>someone can point me to the right bits of Inside Mac and it isn't too much
>work I can have a look at implementing them, though.

Jack,

I've made a search on Apples tech info. Horrible, lots of broken links etc.
Anyway, I've found an "develop" article describing in detail how Floating
windows are made. Seems to be somewhat complicated. Unfortuanatly the
sample code (a little library) is not available. You can find it under the
title
Floating Windows at:

ftp://dev.apple.com/devworld/Periodicals/develop/develop15/

It's an pdf document of about 600 kb. I'll continue to look for the sample
code and will let you know if I find it.

- Peter

BTW: There is an article including sample code about OSA at
ftp://dev.apple.com/devworld/Periodicals/develop/develop18/
Any volunteers ? ;)




From gandreas@skypoint.com  Tue Jan 26 19:55:54 1999
From: gandreas@skypoint.com (Glenn Andreas)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:55:54 -0600
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Floating windows
In-Reply-To: <v04003a01b2d3bf13f623@[195.180.62.169]>
References: <UTC199901261331.OAA24981.jack@snelboot.cwi.nl> Message by
 Peter Sommerfeld <peter.sommerfeld@gmx.de> ,	     Tue, 26 Jan 1999
 13:42:40 +0100 , <v04003a01b2d365042264@[195.180.62.142]>
Message-ID: <l03010d04b2d3cc4a0bc2@[10.0.2.15]>

>[Jack Jansen]
>>I don't think you can make floating windows in Python at the moment. If
>>someone can point me to the right bits of Inside Mac and it isn't too much
>>work I can have a look at implementing them, though.
>
>Jack,
>
>I've made a search on Apples tech info. Horrible, lots of broken links etc.
>Anyway, I've found an "develop" article describing in detail how Floating
>windows are made. Seems to be somewhat complicated. Unfortuanatly the
>sample code (a little library) is not available. You can find it under the
>title
>Floating Windows at:
>
>ftp://dev.apple.com/devworld/Periodicals/develop/develop15/
>
>It's an pdf document of about 600 kb. I'll continue to look for the sample
>code and will let you know if I find it.

If you need the code, I've got it somewhere (in a big stack of Developer
CDs).  Unfortunately, it isn't really designed to fit into the
"Framework.py" framework - it is (IIRC) a chunk of very ugly code that you
call instead of standard window manager calls (to do things like
SelectWindow, NewWindow, etc...).  It might also use the window's refcon
field to keep track of its layer, which (again, IIRC) would interfere with
the Framework.py module which also uses the refcon field to link a window
to the object that manages it.

System 8.5 added support for floating windows, but unfortunately, there are
suppose to be some major bugs that prevents them from working as advertised.

The Text Services Manager provides a way to have floating windows that work
across applications (kind of like the control strip), though normally these
are used from faceless background apps (and there are some very specific
things that you can and can not do from a faceless background app, and some
of the standard mac initialization routines that Python does breaks that,
such as calling InitMenus()).

I've often considered writing a completely different python "main" program,
that is designed specificly for the Mac UI (perhaps leveraging off the
Appearance manager to handle "widgets" in a uniform fashion), but I
currently lack the time for that.  Still, it might be a nice thing to have
a MacPython that is designed from the ground up to create Mac applications,
which is one of the major drawbacks to Python on the Mac right now (IMO).

Glenn Andreas                                 Author of Macintosh games:
gandreas@skypoint.com                               Theldrow 2.3
http://www.skypoint.com/members/gandreas            Blobbo 1.0.2
http://www.delver.com                               Delver (coming soon)
Be good, and you will be lonesome




From just@letterror.com  Tue Jan 26 21:26:23 1999
From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:26:23 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Floating windows
In-Reply-To: <l03010d04b2d3cc4a0bc2@[10.0.2.15]>
References: <v04003a01b2d3bf13f623@[195.180.62.169]>
 <UTC199901261331.OAA24981.jack@snelboot.cwi.nl> Message by Peter
 Sommerfeld <peter.sommerfeld@gmx.de> ,	     Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:42:40
 +0100 , <v04003a01b2d365042264@[195.180.62.142]>
Message-ID: <l03102801b2d3e313c44d@[193.78.237.148]>

At 1:55 PM -0600 1/26/99, Glenn Andreas wrote:
>I've often considered writing a completely different python "main" program,
>that is designed specificly for the Mac UI (perhaps leveraging off the
>Appearance manager to handle "widgets" in a uniform fashion), but I
>currently lack the time for that.  Still, it might be a nice thing to have
>a MacPython that is designed from the ground up to create Mac applications,
>which is one of the major drawbacks to Python on the Mac right now (IMO).

I don't quite understand that: all crucial toolbox functionality is there,
plus FrameWork.py helps a lot.

Or do you mean a more high level approach?

Just




From peter.sommerfeld@gmx.de  Tue Jan 26 21:47:49 1999
From: peter.sommerfeld@gmx.de (Peter Sommerfeld)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:47:49 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Floating windows
In-Reply-To: <l03010d04b2d3cc4a0bc2@[10.0.2.15]>
References: <v04003a01b2d3bf13f623@[195.180.62.169]>
 <UTC199901261331.OAA24981.jack@snelboot.cwi.nl> Message by Peter
 Sommerfeld <peter.sommerfeld@gmx.de> ,	     Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:42:40
 +0100 , <v04003a01b2d365042264@[195.180.62.142]>
Message-ID: <v04003a00b2d3e3ade50a@[195.180.62.139]>

[Glenn Andreas]
>Unfortunately, it isn't really designed to fit into the "Framework.py"
>framework - it is (IIRC) a chunk of very ugly code that you call
>instead of standard window manager calls (to do things like
>SelectWindow, NewWindow, etc...).  It might also use the window's refcon
>field to keep track of its layer, which (again, IIRC) would interfere with
>the Framework.py module which also uses the refcon field to link a window
>to the object that manages it.

According to the description the API does not look that bad. It has the
advantage that it replaces the std window manager calls what makes it
possible to handle everything (?) transparently. Anyway, floating window
support would require a major revision of the PyMac API :-(

- Peter




From llatz@stuttgart.netsurf.de  Tue Jan 26 22:12:47 1999
From: llatz@stuttgart.netsurf.de (Lukas Latz)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:12:47 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Floating windows
References: <v04003a01b2d365042264@[195.180.62.142]>
Message-ID: <36AE3DDF.2AE34E8F@stuttgart.netsurf.de>

i got something called Infinity Windoid WDEF 3.0 on my harddisk. never used it yet..
its free to use i think, but copyrighted to the author:
troy gaul (tgaul@halcyon.com)
dunno if its any good or what, in case of copyright related issues better
contact the author.
bummer i cant remember where i got it from, tho..
lukas


From billpy@mousa.demon.co.uk  Tue Jan 26 23:26:20 1999
From: billpy@mousa.demon.co.uk (Bill Bedford)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:26:20 +0000
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Floating windows
In-Reply-To: <v04003a01b2d3bf13f623@[195.180.62.169]>
References: <UTC199901261331.OAA24981.jack@snelboot.cwi.nl> Message by
 Peter Sommerfeld <peter.sommerfeld@gmx.de> ,	     Tue, 26 Jan 1999
 13:42:40 +0100 , <v04003a01b2d365042264@[195.180.62.142]>
Message-ID: <553715964605906221465@mousa.demon.co.uk>

At 8:16 pm +0100 26/01/99, Peter Sommerfeld wrote:

>[Jack Jansen]
>>I don't think you can make floating windows in Python at the moment. If
>>someone can point me to the right bits of Inside Mac and it isn't too much
>>work I can have a look at implementing them, though.
>
>Jack,
>
>I've made a search on Apples tech info. Horrible, lots of broken links etc.
>Anyway, I've found an "develop" article describing in detail how Floating
>windows are made. Seems to be somewhat complicated. Unfortuanatly the
>sample code (a little library) is not available. You can find it under the
>title

All the Develop mags and code is at
http://www.mactech.com/articles/develop/index.html

Bill Bedford
Owner Brit_Rail-L mailto://autoshare@mousa.demon.co.uk
For the history of Railways in Britain.



From peter.sommerfeld@gmx.de  Thu Jan 28 22:37:42 1999
From: peter.sommerfeld@gmx.de (Peter Sommerfeld)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:37:42 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Different event handling of IDE / Python App ?
Message-ID: <v04003a00b2d6945a27c9@[195.180.62.129]>

I'm writing my own eventloop and everything works well when
using the IDE (1.5.2b1). I've checked now with dragging onto the
Python app and BuiltApplet and under this conditions various
ActivateEvents do not happen (Deaktivate always works).

Any idea ?

thanx

- Peter




From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Fri Jan 29 10:22:12 1999
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:22:12 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Different event handling of IDE / Python App ?
In-Reply-To: Message by Peter Sommerfeld <peter.sommerfeld@gmx.de> ,
 Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:37:42 +0100 , <v04003a00b2d6945a27c9@[195.180.62.129]>
Message-ID: <UTC199901291022.LAA27712.jack@snelboot.cwi.nl>

You'll probably want to add a call to MacOS.SchedParams to disable event 
processing by Sioux and the Python mainloop. IDE probably already does this 
for you (because it needs it itself). This should probably go in the 
documentation somewhere, as more and more people use IDE for development.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From peter.sommerfeld@gmx.de  Sat Jan 30 13:24:47 1999
From: peter.sommerfeld@gmx.de (Peter Sommerfeld)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:24:47 +0100
Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Different event handling of IDE / Python App ?
In-Reply-To: <UTC199901291022.LAA27712.jack@snelboot.cwi.nl>
References: Message by Peter Sommerfeld <peter.sommerfeld@gmx.de> ,
 Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:37:42 +0100 , <v04003a00b2d6945a27c9@[195.180.62.129]>
Message-ID: <v04003a00b2d8b7d5b121@[195.180.62.145]>

[Jack Jansen]
>You'll probably want to add a call to MacOS.SchedParams to disable event
>processing by Sioux and the Python mainloop. IDE probably already does this
>for you (because it needs it itself). This should probably go in the
>documentation somewhere, as more and more people use IDE for development.

Thanks Jack,

Just has mentioned that some times ago but I've forgotten it.

I'm getting old ;)

-- Peter