From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl Wed Jul 1 10:09:45 1998 From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 11:09:45 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] time module In-Reply-To: Message by Christopher Stern , Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:34:37 -0600 , Message-ID: > Does anyone out there know why the mac's time module counts seconds from 1 > jan 1900? The mac's epoch is 4 years later. Because the underlying MetroWerks C library does this. Don't ask me why: I haven't a clue... -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm From cubil@javanet.com Thu Jul 2 18:07:32 1998 From: cubil@javanet.com (Lourdes Corrada) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 13:07:32 -0400 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python mode for Alpha editor Message-ID: <359BBE4D.88D0E693@javanet.com> Hello, I have been searching the site for a python mode for the Alpha editor and was unable to find many of the files that appear listed, for example, /ftp/python/contrib/Misc/AlphaPythonMode.sit . What happened to these files? Is there an up to date version ( works with Alpha v7 ) of the mode I can download somewhere? Andres Corrada From ranch1@earthlink.net Sat Jul 4 02:02:14 1998 From: ranch1@earthlink.net (Tom Fetherston) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:02:14 -0400 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python mode for Alpha editor In-Reply-To: <359BBE4D.88D0E693@javanet.com> Message-ID: Andres Corrada wrote: >Hello, > I have been searching the site for a python mode for the Alpha >editor and was unable to find many of the files that appear listed, for >example, /ftp/python/contrib/Misc/AlphaPythonMode.sit . What happened >to these files? Is there an up to date version ( works with Alpha v7 ) >of the mode I can download somewhere? > With help from some earlier work on an alpha python mode and a bunch of reworking of the MacPerl mode, I came up with a python mode for alpha. I then asked for comments and suggestions with the intention of making a more polished version. At this point Vince Darley, with the help of the alpha-D mail list, reorganized and added quite a lot of functionality to Alpha which has resulted in the 7.0 version that Pete (Alpha's author), has released. there is a 7.1 version that Vince has on his web site. At the end of last year I took a bunch of my work on the python mode and sent it to Vince, I believe he still has it around on his site. This is not a finished mode however, and think it was targeted at 7.0, probably 6.x. It lacks a good appleEvent interface to python, and a good solution to the indenting problem Guido pointed out. The python ide offered some possiblities towards the AE interface, however, the new version seems to have come up with another way to get python to interact with python. If I had gotten closer to a finished version, I was going to ask for some help with this. The indenting problem is a current issue with alpha, Vince, who has been the driving force behind alpha's recent evolution, has made all his code compatible with unix, including unix style indenting, I feel that more support needs to be added to suport all the styles. Anyway, I hope to get back to this at some point and offer up another version, but the new, "work longer for less" economy has kept me away from alpha at all for a few months. Tom From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl Sat Jul 4 15:20:15 1998 From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 16:20:15 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python mode for Alpha editor In-Reply-To: Message by Tom Fetherston , Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:02:14 -0400 , Message-ID: Recently, Tom Fetherston said: > It lacks a good appleEvent interface to python, and a good solution to the > indenting problem Guido pointed out. There's also Just's old BBPy which allows using AE to run Python scripts, maybe that helps? Otherwise it should be reasonably simple to cook something up with the MiniAEFrame module. -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm From ranch1@earthlink.net Sat Jul 4 16:35:55 1998 From: ranch1@earthlink.net (Tom Fetherston) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:35:55 -0400 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python mode for Alpha editor Message-ID: In reply to these lines in my post:>> It lacks a good appleEvent interface to python, and a good solution to the >> indenting problem Guido pointed out. > Jack Jansen said: >There's also Just's old BBPy which allows using AE to run Python >scripts, maybe that helps? That is how the alpha mode worked, though I just plagged away at it with no understanding of what I was doing, or how Just's code works. The result was kind of klunky. Otherwise it should be reasonably simple to >cook something up with the MiniAEFrame module. Unfortunately, I seem to have "Attention Deficit Disorder" when it come to languages, I never spent enough time with python to understand it on more than a superficial level. Tom From kantel@mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de Tue Jul 7 15:49:59 1998 From: kantel@mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de (Joerg Kantel) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:49:59 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Three Questions ? (again) Message-ID: Hi everyone, I use Python for a WEB-Project (VIPP - the Virtual Institute of Physiologie of the 19th Century) here at the Institute and I have three very different Questions dealing with Python on the Macintosh: 1. Strange Behaviour with Python 1.5.1 ? I've written a little Tkinter-based Interface to maintanance some configuration files. Since updating to Python 1.5.1 my Macintosh crashes often by using a option menu with error 1 or 2 (dangling pointer). It did that never before with the former versions of python. Is this a known bug, strange behaviour or should I simple repair my Powerbook? 2. How to write CGI-Scripts in Python on the Macintosh? Yes, I know there is a example CGI-Script in the Distribution but 2.1. It only runs one time of my servers, by calling it a second time it crashes. I've testet it with Machttpd, WebStar and QuidProQuo. 2.2. I want something like the wrapper classes in MacPerl that gives me the opportunity to handle CGI-Scripts in the same way as on my Linux-Box. With Perl it is possible, why not with Python? (I don't want to write further CGI-Scripts with $@% ;-) 3. In these project we deal a lot with SGML. Are there some libs available that can do things like the CoST (Copenhagen SGML Tools - written in Tcl)? Especially on the Mac: Is there a lib that can deal with the output of parsers like nsgml? It would be great if someone could help me. And ... Sorry about my (d)english, but it's the only I have ;-) J"org PS: Why should your mailer bounced back my mail (pythonmac-sig@python.org: nor route to host ....) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ J"org Kantel email: kantel@mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de Max Planck Institute for the History of Science phone: +4930-22667-220 Wilhelmstr. 44 fax: +4930-22667-299 D-10117 Berlin http://www.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/staff/kantel/kantel.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From Jeff@Digicool.com Tue Jul 7 16:11:31 1998 From: Jeff@Digicool.com (Jeffrey P Shell) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 11:11:31 -0400 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Three Questions ? (again) Message-ID: <199807071454.KAA03393@gator.digicool.com> >3. In these project we deal a lot with SGML. Are there some libs available >that can do things like the CoST (Copenhagen SGML Tools - written in Tcl)? >Especially on the Mac: Is there a lib that can deal with the output of >parsers like nsgml? I don't know about your other questions, but the XML-SIG is working on some powerful Python XML/SGML tools. If I had the tools, I'd probably have made some Mac binaries of them myself by now. By the time the new xml package is released, there will probably be a Mac version. Check out the XML-SIG page at http://www.python.org/sigs/xml-sig/ --jPS - - - / jeff@digicool.com - http://www.digicool.com/ me!ander -- http://www.circle17.com/meander/ /aesthetics are the ethics of the few/ From billpy@mousa.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 7 19:24:29 1998 From: billpy@mousa.demon.co.uk (Bill Bedford) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:24:29 +0100 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Three Questions ? (again) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <497361774417878995814@mousa.demon.co.uk> At 4:49 pm +0200 07/07/98, Joerg Kantel wrote: ~Hi everyone, ~ ~I use Python for a WEB-Project (VIPP - the Virtual Institute of Physiologie ~of the 19th Century) here at the Institute and I have three very different ~Questions dealing with Python on the Macintosh: ~ ~1. Strange Behaviour with Python 1.5.1 ? ~I've written a little Tkinter-based Interface to maintanance some ~configuration files. Since updating to Python 1.5.1 my Macintosh crashes ~often by using a option menu with error 1 or 2 (dangling pointer). It did ~that never before with the former versions of python. Is this a known bug, ~strange behaviour or should I simple repair my Powerbook? ~ ~2. How to write CGI-Scripts in Python on the Macintosh? ~Yes, I know there is a example CGI-Script in the Distribution but ~ ~ 2.1. It only runs one time of my servers, by calling it a second time ~ it crashes. I've testet it with Machttpd, WebStar and QuidProQuo. ~ ~ 2.2. I want something like the wrapper classes in MacPerl that gives ~ me the opportunity to handle CGI-Scripts in the same way as on my ~ Linux-Box. With Perl it is possible, why not with Python? (I don't ~ want to write further CGI-Scripts with $@% ;-) ~ There's a bug in the 1.5.1 AE module that means you can only send one apple event to a process. Sending a second causes the problems you describe. Bill Bedford Owner Brit_Rail-L list for the history of railways in Britain Subscribe at autoshare@mousa.demon.co.uk From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl Wed Jul 8 12:47:39 1998 From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 13:47:39 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Three Questions ? (again) In-Reply-To: Message by "Jeffrey P Shell" , Tue, 07 Jul 1998 11:11:31 -0400 , <199807071454.KAA03393@gator.digicool.com> Message-ID: > I don't know about your other questions, but the XML-SIG is working on some > powerful Python XML/SGML tools. If I had the tools, I'd probably have made > some Mac binaries of them myself by now. By the time the new xml package > is released, there will probably be a Mac version. I have them already, but I haven't gotten around to putting together a distribution just yet. If people are interested let me know and I'll try to speed up release of these. -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl Wed Jul 8 12:55:50 1998 From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 13:55:50 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Three Questions ? (again) In-Reply-To: Message by Bill Bedford , Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:24:29 +0100 , <497361774417878995814@mousa.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: > There's a bug in the 1.5.1 AE module that means you can only send one apple > event to a process. Sending a second causes the problems you describe. Bill, could you explain this bug? -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl Wed Jul 8 12:57:08 1998 From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 13:57:08 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Three Questions ? (again) In-Reply-To: Message by kantel@mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de (Joerg Kantel) , Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:49:59 +0200 , Message-ID: > 1. Strange Behaviour with Python 1.5.1 ? > I've written a little Tkinter-based Interface to maintanance some > configuration files. Since updating to Python 1.5.1 my Macintosh crashes > often by using a option menu with error 1 or 2 (dangling pointer). It did > that never before with the former versions of python. Is this a known bug, > strange behaviour or should I simple repair my Powerbook? I think this bug is in Tk, the mactcl mailing list also discusses a very similar-sounding bug. I don't have the time to dig into it, but I'll gratefully accept suggestions (or fixes, preferred:-). -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm From wilsona@plk.af.mil Wed Jul 8 15:26:25 1998 From: wilsona@plk.af.mil (Anthony Wilson) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 08:26:25 -0600 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] [Resend] Tk 8.0 w/ MacPython 1.5.1 Message-ID: I have sent this message previously w/ no reply, but it may have gotten lost. so here it goes again. Just wondering if anyone is using the Tk module w/ MacPython 1.5.1 and what kind of success you have had. Also, did anyone ever find out about the menu problem that Tk was having that was mentioned before. i checked the list archive but nothing was shown as a solution. Another question would be is it a Tk problem, or MacPython problem. The major one that i have seen has been using the Pmw(http://www.dscpl.com.au/pmw/) widget set. When using Pmw on w/ MacPython the error i found was this " Menu ID 256 is already in use!Fatal Python Error: Tcl/Tk panic" This error appears in the CounterDialog.py demo. After selecting the show dialog button and then pressing ok to hear the bells. After doing this and trying to exit the dialog(either with the exit button or the close box) the above error appears. Any ideas anyone. TIA. -anthony From wolfgang@amadeus.m.eunet.de Fri Jul 10 19:07:08 1998 From: wolfgang@amadeus.m.eunet.de (Wolfgang Keller) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:07:08 +0100 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Opal (a Tkinter GUI builder & Python IDE) for the Mac Message-ID: A message from the Opal-l list for all those Mac users... >Jason McVay wrote: >> i was just wondering if we could get an update from opal? >> how difficult would a mac port be? > >We'll plan to post our first "opal newsletter" next week -- we just have >to come up with a new name for the project first ;-) > >The first release(s) will run on Windows and Unix only, but the generated >code will probably run just fine on Mac's using Tkinter. On the other hand, >it's not really a secret that Tk isn't really up to the task on Macs (1). >If we >see enough interest in a "Opal for Mac" version (2), we are definitely willing >to address that problem. > >Regards /F >fredrik@pythonware.com >http://www.pythonware.com > >1) While Tk on Windows is pretty ok for many tasks, it's not a perfect >solution. Which is why we'll release Topaz for Windows later this year: >http://www.pythonware.com/secretlabs/topaz.htm > >2) Frankly, we haven't seen much interest in Mac products before Jason >spoke up. If you're using Python on Mac, and is willing to invest in a >commercial development environment, please drop us a line and tell >us that you're out there. Time to flood a mailbox. >:-> Wolfgang Keller Zu Risiken und Nebenwirkungen von Junkmail lesen Sie de.admin.net-abuse.mail und fragen sie Ihren Postmaster oder Provider From wolfgang@amadeus.m.eunet.de Sun Jul 12 19:50:37 1998 From: wolfgang@amadeus.m.eunet.de (Wolfgang Keller) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 20:50:37 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] memory size for Python applets? Message-ID: Is there any other method than trial and error to determine or at least estimate the memory size required for a Python Applet? The memory size for the Python interpreter itself is set to around 1.5 MB 'minimum' and almost 8 MB (!) 'preferred'. This seems a LOT to me. A simple example applet like the imagebrowser requires more than 4 MB to open and display a .jpg.file of less than 100 kB. Is this normal? My Mac does have enough memory for this, but I would like to use Python to write small scripts and applets. Several MB imho is a little bit too much just for a script with a trivial UI (a preferences dialog box) that does trivial things like watching folders, starting apps, working with files, sending applescript command and the like. TIA, Wolfgang Keller Zu Risiken und Nebenwirkungen von Junkmail lesen Sie de.admin.net-abuse.mail und fragen sie Ihren Postmaster oder Provider From seanh@prognet.com Sun Jul 12 05:36:56 1998 From: seanh@prognet.com (Sean Hummel) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:36:56 -0700 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] memory size for Python applets? Message-ID: <199807130437.AA24762@murrow.prognet.com> Why don't we make Python attempt to allocate memory from the Process Manager (aka Temporary Memory), instead of just running out of memory? Many applications do this, (Explorer, Netscape, RealPlayer), and it is completely within the rules of Macintosh application Development. This would get around most of the out of memory problems. >Is there any other method than trial and error to deter >estimate the memory size required for a Python Applet? > >The memory size for the Python interpreter itself is set to around 1.5 MB >'minimum' and almost 8 MB (!) 'preferred'. This seems a LOT to me. > >A simple example applet like the imagebrowser requires more than 4 MB to >open and display a .jpg.file of less than 100 kB. Is this normal? > >My Mac does have enough memory for this, but I would like to use Python to >write small scripts and applets. Several MB imho is a little bit too much >just for a script with a trivial UI (a preferences dialog box) that does >trivial things like watching folders, starting apps, working with files, >sending applescript command and the like. > >TIA, > >Wolfgang Keller > >Zu Risiken und Nebenwirkungen von Junkmail lesen Sie >de.admin.net-abuse.mail und fragen sie Ihren Postmaster oder Provider > > > >_______________________________________________ >Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org >http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl Mon Jul 13 10:08:42 1998 From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:08:42 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] memory size for Python applets? In-Reply-To: Message by Wolfgang Keller , Sun, 12 Jul 1998 20:50:37 +0200 , Message-ID: > Is there any other method than trial and error to determine or at least > estimate the memory size required for a Python Applet? > > The memory size for the Python interpreter itself is set to around 1.5 MB > 'minimum' and almost 8 MB (!) 'preferred'. This seems a LOT to me. The best way to get a good estimate is to run the applet with option pressed during startup, select "interactive mode after script", and when you get the interactive prompt return to the finder to use the "About this macintosh" box to see how much memory is in use. Python will almost immedeately eat around 1Mb of memory for it's (C) variables and the various modules that are loaded during startup (exception.py and such), so the 1.5Mb minimum is probably indeed the absolute minimum. > A simple example applet like the imagebrowser requires more than 4 MB to > open and display a .jpg.file of less than 100 kB. Is this normal? That sounds like a bit much. Using imgbrowse (from Mac:Demo:imgbrowse) I have a footprint of about 2Mb after opening a single file. > My Mac does have enough memory for this, but I would like to use Python to > write small scripts and applets. Several MB imho is a little bit too much > just for a script with a trivial UI (a preferences dialog box) that does > trivial things like watching folders, starting apps, working with files, > sending applescript command and the like. MacPython isn't optimized for memory usage, on the contrary. In a lot of places I've taken the view that memory is cheap, and that if cycles can be gained by wasting memory that is fine. The memory allocator is an example of this: it allocates blocks in power-of-two sizes, resulting in a loss of about 25% extra memory, but resulting in a speedup that can be as much as 10% in normal cases (and much higer even in long-running processes, due to pathological behaviour of the realloc() in the standard MetroWerks library). All memory is also allocated cache-aligned, resulting in a further performance gain (especially on 604 processors) but wasting more memory. Also, something you shouldn't forget is that with Python you see the _real_ memory use in the application. With things like AppleScript there's a lot of memory used that is allocated from the system heap, so it looks as thought the applet doesn't use much memory, but in fact it does, only it allocates it in a different place. -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl Mon Jul 13 10:18:50 1998 From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:18:50 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] memory size for Python applets? In-Reply-To: Message by "Sean Hummel" , Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:36:56 -0700 , <199807130437.AA24762@murrow.prognet.com> Message-ID: > > Why don't we make Python attempt to allocate memory from the Process Manager > (aka Temporary Memory), instead of just running out of memory? > > Many applications do this, (Explorer, Netscape, RealPlayer), and it is > completely within the rules of Macintosh application Development. The way I read Inside Mac is that you shouldn't allocate temporary memory unless you only need it for a short while, especially if you're going to lock the block in memory. Since Python needs its blocks locked in memory (converting everything to use handles would be a major undertaking) and since there is no easy way to determine the expected lifetime of an object during allocation I have refrained from trying to use the system heap. If these assumptions are wrong, please tell me so: it would be *much* nicer to have Python use temporary memory, so you wouldn't have to be fiddling the application size everytime you run a big script. Another thing I could do, of course, is to expose the NewSysHandle() call and friends. This would allow programmers to use temporary memory in some cases (but you would have to go quite a bit out of your way). But, of course, when MacOS becomes a real operating system next year with MacOS X all this will be moot as the memory model will be much more decent. -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm From seanh@prognet.com Sun Jul 12 18:43:46 1998 From: seanh@prognet.com (Sean Hummel) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 10:43:46 -0700 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] memory size for Python applets? Message-ID: <199807131743.AA15413@murrow.prognet.com> >> >> Why don't we make Python attempt to allocate memory from the Process Manager >> (aka Temporary Memory), instead of just running out of memory? >> >> Many applications do this, (Explorer, Netscape, RealPlayer), and it is >> completely within the rules of Macintosh application Development. > >The way I read Inside Mac is that you shouldn't allocate temporary memory >unless you only need it for a short while, especially if you're going to lock >the block in memory. Since Python needs its blocks locked in memory >(converting everything to use handles would be a major undertaking) and since >there is no easy way to determine the expected lifetime of an object during >allocation I have refrained from trying to use the system heap. If these >assumptions are wrong, please tell me so: it would be *much* nicer to have >Python use temporary memory, so you wouldn't have to be fiddling the >application size everytime you run a big script. I know, I had the same problem with it when I first started using Temp memory. However in our case (RealPlayer that is,) most people aren't going to be using another application when running our player. I'd say that the same is true for Python, most people run a Python script, and wait for it to finish anyway. I don't think Python is used for background tasks as frequently. I might be wrong, but that's how I see it. >Another thing I could do, of course, is to expose the NewSysHandle() call and >friends. This would allow programmers to use temporary memory in some cases >(but you would have to go quite a bit out of your way). But, of course, when >MacOS becomes a real operating system next year with MacOS X all this will be >moot as the memory model will be much more decent. Don't use the NewSysHandle() or NewSysPtr() calls, because if one of these calls is made and it grows the System Heap, then the heap never shrinks to reclaim that space. (Even if you delete that ptr.) >-- >Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ >Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ >http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sean Hummel RealNetworks Inc. Core Technologies Developer "Just where are we going? And why are we in this handbasket?" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From tschinke@swissonline.ch Mon Jul 13 23:01:13 1998 From: tschinke@swissonline.ch (Vincenzo Tschinke) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:01:13 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Pmw Blues Message-ID: I downloaded the "Python Mega Widgets" from http://www.dscpl.com.au/pmw/ and tried all the examples on my Mac as well as an SGI. The results on the Mac are nothing short of disastrous: about one in four examples causes Python to crash. The SGI performs beautifully. Is anybody experiencing the same problems? Any suggestion for a truly portable GUI framework? Many thanks ======================= Vincenzo Tschinke Kernmattstr. 24 CH-4102 Binningen Switzerland +4161 422 1991 (T+F) tschinke@swissonline.ch ======================= From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl Tue Jul 14 09:33:24 1998 From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:33:24 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] memory size for Python applets? In-Reply-To: Message by "Sean Hummel" , Sun, 12 Jul 1998 10:43:46 -0700 , <199807131743.AA15413@murrow.prognet.com> Message-ID: > >[...] it would be *much* nicer to have > >Python use temporary memory, so you wouldn't have to be fiddling the > >application size everytime you run a big script. > > I know, I had the same problem with it when I first started using Temp > memory. However in our case (RealPlayer that is,) most people aren't going > to be using another application when running our player. Hmm, would the following be a good idea: if there was a cutoff point (user-settable) and anything allocated that is bigger than that cutoff point comes from temporary memory? The premise I'm working on here is that small things are likely to be long-lived (or, at least, you can't say much about them) but big things are more likely to be short lived. Big things are currently already directly allocated with NewPtr() and freed with DisposePtr(), so the change wouldn't be too difficult. (Small things are allocated together in 8Kb blocks which are never freed again). Does anyone have any data on object size vs. object lifetime? > I'd say that the same is true for Python, most people run a Python script, > and wait for it to finish anyway. I don't think Python is used for > background tasks as frequently. I might be wrong, but that's how I see it. Well, for me it isn't true: I use Python in the background quite often. I also use Python in cooperation with other programs (through scripting) a lot, for instance to build new Pythons and such. > Don't use the NewSysHandle() or NewSysPtr() calls, because if one of these > calls is made and it grows the System Heap, then the heap never shrinks to > reclaim that space. (Even if you delete that ptr.) You're right, of course: I was mixing up temp memory and system memory here again. Temporary Memory is what I was think of all the time. -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm From aa126@fan1.fan.nb.ca Tue Jul 14 15:49:15 1998 From: aa126@fan1.fan.nb.ca (William Burrow) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:49:15 -0300 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] memory size for Python applets? In-Reply-To: <199807131743.AA15413@murrow.prognet.com>; from Sean Hummel on Sun, Jul 12, 1998 at 10:43:46AM -0700 References: <199807131743.AA15413@murrow.prognet.com> Message-ID: <19980714114915.09839@fan.nb.ca> On Sun, Jul 12, 1998 at 10:43:46AM -0700, Sean Hummel wrote: > >allocation I have refrained from trying to use the system heap. If these > >assumptions are wrong, please tell me so: it would be *much* nicer to have > >Python use temporary memory, so you wouldn't have to be fiddling the > >application size everytime you run a big script. > > I know, I had the same problem with it when I first started using Temp > memory. However in our case (RealPlayer that is,) most people aren't going > to be using another application when running our player. > > I'd say that the same is true for Python, most people run a Python script, > and wait for it to finish anyway. I don't think Python is used for > background tasks as frequently. I might be wrong, but that's how I see it. What about people using Python for CGI? In my case, I plan to run a Gadfly server on a Mac web server. What impact does that have? -- William Burrow, VE9WIL Perl and Python spoken here. From red_bird@teleserve.dynip.com Wed Jul 15 03:51:36 1998 From: red_bird@teleserve.dynip.com (Gordon Worley) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:51:36 -0400 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python for Mac apps... Message-ID: Hello, I have been using Python for a little while to do some pretty basic CGIs. I couldn't really find this information anywhere, but can Python be used for creating full-blown Mac apps that process text, save large files quickly, interface with the Mac toolbox, and so on. I have really enjoyed Python for CGI, but I wanted to know how it stands up against Pascle and C/C++ for creating Mac apps. Thanks. ________________________________ Red Bird Island Productions Gordon Worley (red_bird) http://rbisland.home.ml.org/ mailto:red_bird@teleserve.dynip.com From just@letterror.com Wed Jul 15 08:47:09 1998 From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:47:09 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python for Mac apps... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 10:51 PM -0400 7/14/98, Gordon Worley wrote: >Hello, > > I have been using Python for a little while to do some pretty basic >CGIs. I couldn't really find this information anywhere, but can Python be >used for creating full-blown Mac apps that process text, save large files >quickly, interface with the Mac toolbox, and so on. I have really enjoyed >Python for CGI, but I wanted to know how it stands up against Pascle and >C/C++ for creating Mac apps. Check the IDE for an example of performance. It uses waste as a text engine (which is written in C) and uses many Toolbox features. Otherwise it's entirely written in Python. It's not too graphics intensive, though. It was noticably slower than a C/C++ app on my old Quadra, but still acceptable. It is not noticably slower on a G3... Just From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl Wed Jul 15 11:38:38 1998 From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:38:38 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python for Mac apps... In-Reply-To: Message by Gordon Worley , Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:51:36 -0400 , Message-ID: > I have been using Python for a little while to do some pretty basic > CGIs. I couldn't really find this information anywhere, but can Python be > used for creating full-blown Mac apps that process text, save large files > quickly, interface with the Mac toolbox, and so on. I have really enjoyed > Python for CGI, but I wanted to know how it stands up against Pascle and > C/C++ for creating Mac apps. Definitely. The reason I actually get the time to work on MacPython is that we use Python to develop a cross-platform multimedia editor and playback system for the new world-wide-web standard SMIL, GriNS. GRiNS has by now grown to about 50K lines, for all platforms (unix, win, mac) together, and the interface is pretty much native on all of these. It's definitely not as fast as it would have been when written in C, but it performs good on my (by now outdated) 133 Mhz machine, and it's even useable (though barely so) on my 60Mhz 6100 or a fast 68040 machine. And in C it would be at least 10 times as much source, and definitely not doable with a team of 2 people and-a-bit. I'll post a note here when a GRiNS release is available to the public, just so anyone interested can check out what you can do with Python. In this process, by the way, I've also streamlined the freeze stuff, which turns Python scripts into full standalone Mac applications. For now you still need CodeWarrior to create these, but Just and myself are working on a version of freeze that will create standalone applications without source or a C development environment, by stuffing all the relevant shared libraries into the resultant binary. You can expect this in the next MacPython release. -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm From tom@sz-sb.de Wed Jul 15 18:08:45 1998 From: tom@sz-sb.de (Th. Fettig) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:08:45 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Applevents to running applications.. Message-ID: <199807151708.TAA26404@sabsol.sz-sb.de> I am doing a workflow-component using Python as 'steering' and interface to our database, and would need to talk to various Applescripts i wrote (saved as application..) via the default handlers (run,open,save,quit). Has anybody done this yet? I looked around for a while, but only found facilities to use converted Dictionaries.. which is totally dependent on signatures, but these do not differ for Applescripts!! Sending Events is also possible via PSN (process serial numbers), so before i start coding C, i wonder if there's a way to get the PSN in Python and use the AE-module to construct and handle events directed to the running processes. Is this possible? Any examples available? tia Tom From noema@csi.com Wed Jul 15 19:16:52 1998 From: noema@csi.com (Peter Sommerfeld) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:16:52 +0100 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Python for Mac apps... In-Reply-To: References: Message by Gordon Worley , Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:51:36 -0400 , Message-ID: Hallo everyone ! I'm new on python and this list too. I have a follow up to Gordon Worley's msg. I think about a cross-platform application with a medium duty GUI. Most of it will be structured text, outliners and something like this. There seems to be 2 options: * to use the native function of the os direct via C or python libraries either. Obviously much more work than the second option. * Tcl/Tk via tkinter. I'm not familiar with all that unix stuff and have checked some mac demos. Seems to be quite fast and powerfull even on my outdated PPC 603/75 Mhz. But this demos are very little applications. What's about more enhanced requirements. Are there any drawbacks ? Other options ? Jack Jansen wrote: >Definitely. The reason I actually get the time to work on MacPython is >that we >use Python to develop a cross-platform multimedia editor and playback system >for the new world-wide-web standard SMIL, GriNS. GRiNS has by now grown to >about 50K lines, for all platforms (unix, win, mac) together, and the >interface is pretty much native on all of these. It's definitely not as fast >as it would have been when written in C, but it performs good on my (by now >outdated) 133 Mhz machine, and it's even useable (though barely so) on my >60Mhz 6100 or a fast 68040 machine. And in C it would be at least 10 times as >much source, and definitely not doable with a team of 2 people and-a-bit. Just van Rossum wrote: >Check the IDE for an example of performance. It uses waste as a text engine >(which is written in C) and uses many Toolbox features. Otherwise it's >entirely written in Python. It's not too graphics intensive, though. It was >noticably slower than a C/C++ app on my old Quadra, but still acceptable. >It is not noticably slower on a G3... Both of you decided to go the native way. May I ask for the reasons ? Peter - Lueneburg, Germany PS: Is this list feasible for typical newby questions too ? I dislike to post bulk like this to the main list. From just@letterror.com Wed Jul 15 19:34:56 1998 From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 20:34:56 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Python for Mac apps... In-Reply-To: References: Message by Gordon Worley , Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:51:36 -0400 , Message-ID: At 7:16 PM +0100 7/15/98, Peter Sommerfeld wrote: >Both of you decided to go the native way. May I ask for the reasons ? Having basically grown-up with Macs, I dislike anything that does not feel quite "right", in the Mac sense. While Tk is a wonderful solution for certain problems, it is very hard to get all the details that Mac users are used to right (though maybe not impossible). Other reasons: Tk eats lots of memory, and it does not perform satisfactory on older machine (of which there are plenty). But of course my main reason was that I didn't need support for other platforms to begin with... >PS: Is this list feasible for typical newby questions too ? I dislike to post >bulk like this to the main list. No problem! Good to see this list coming alive again. Just From just@letterror.com Wed Jul 15 19:44:53 1998 From: just@letterror.com (Just van Rossum) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 20:44:53 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Applevents to running applications.. In-Reply-To: <199807151708.TAA26404@sabsol.sz-sb.de> Message-ID: At 7:08 PM +0200 7/15/98, Th. Fettig wrote: >I am doing a workflow-component using Python as 'steering' and >interface to our database, and would need to talk to various >Applescripts i wrote (saved as application..) via the default >handlers (run,open,save,quit). Has anybody done this yet? I looked >around for a while, but only found facilities to use converted >Dictionaries.. which is totally dependent on signatures, but these >do not differ for Applescripts!! >Sending Events is also possible via PSN (process serial numbers), so >before i start coding C, i wonder if there's a way to get the PSN in >Python and use the AE-module to construct and handle events directed >to the running processes. Is this possible? Any examples available? (I'm not too familiar with Bill Bedfords PythonScript module so I don't know if it helps, but do check it out, it's in :Mac:Contrib: PythonScript) As far as I know there is no interface to the Process Manager yet. If you *know* how to do it in C, and you don't need 68k support, consider Jack's Most Wonderful calldll module (in the standard distr). You can make Python crash just like with C, but you'll still be done quicker. See :Mac:Demo:calldll: for some examples, and search the archives of this list for "MicroSeconds", for a bad and a good example of what it can do with Toolbox calls. Just From seanh@prognet.com Wed Jul 15 21:03:30 1998 From: seanh@prognet.com (Sean Hummel) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:03:30 -0700 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Applevents to running applications.. Message-ID: <199807152007.AA16514@murrow.prognet.com> Try out the OSAm Module that comes with Python 1.5.1, we wrote it here at RealNetworks to glue together our buildsystem. It allows for Applescripts to be called directly as text from within Python. So basically you generate the Applescript as text, and it compiles and runs the script. Also it supports running already compiled scripts, and saving scripts in the compiled format. It doesn't come with any good docs, because the guy who sent it to Jack, forgot to ship the example code. Basically it has the following commands: OSAm.CompileAndExecute() OSAm.CompileAndSave(,) OSAm.RunCompiled() Anyway it is in the "contrib:OSAm" directory, just put the plugin in your plugins directory. >At 7:08 PM +0200 7/15/98, Th. Fettig wrote: >>I am doing a workflow-component using Python as 'steering' and >>interface to our database, and would need to talk to various >>Applescripts i wrote (saved as application..) via the default >>handlers (run,open,save,quit). Has anybody done this yet? I looked >>around for a while, but only found facilities to use converted >>Dictionaries.. which is totally dependent on signatures, but these >>do not differ for Applescripts!! >>Sending Events is also possible via PSN (process serial numbers), so >>before i start coding C, i wonder if there's a way to get the PSN in >>Python and use the AE-module to construct and handle events directed >>to the running processes. Is this possible? Any examples available? > >(I'm not too familiar with Bill Bedfords PythonScript module so I don't >know if it helps, but do check it out, it's in :Mac:Contrib: PythonScript) > >As far as I know there is no interface to the Process Manager yet. >If you *know* how to do it in C, and you don't need 68k support, consider >Jack's Most Wonderful calldll module (in the standard distr). >You can make Python crash just like with C, but you'll still be done >quicker. See :Mac:Demo:calldll: for some examples, and search the archives >of this list for "MicroSeconds", for a bad and a good example of what it >can do with Toolbox calls. > >Just > > > >_______________________________________________ >Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org >http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sean Hummel RealNetworks Inc. Core Technologies Developer "Just where are we going? And why are we in this handbasket?" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From billpy@mousa.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 15 19:39:01 1998 From: billpy@mousa.demon.co.uk (Bill Bedford) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:39:01 +0100 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Applevents to running applications.. In-Reply-To: <199807151708.TAA26404@sabsol.sz-sb.de> Message-ID: <917554749271746050388@mousa.demon.co.uk> At 7:08 pm +0200 15/07/98, Th. Fettig wrote: ~I am doing a workflow-component using Python as 'steering' and ~interface to our database, and would need to talk to various ~Applescripts i wrote (saved as application..) via the default ~handlers (run,open,save,quit). Has anybody done this yet? You can do this via the finder eg Using the distribution file import aetools import Finder_Suite import Standard_Suite class Finder(aetools.TalkTo, Finder_Suite.Finder_Suite, Standard_Suite.Standard_Suite): """A class that can talk to Finder""" pass f = Finder('MACS') ScriptApp = "Hermit:Desktop Folder:testscrpy" ff = Finder_Suite ss = Standard_Suite f.open(ss.file(ScriptApp)) Or using PythonScript import PythonScript SIGNATURE = 'MACS' TIMEOUT = 10*60*60 ScriptApp = "Hermit:Desktop Folder:testscrpy" PythonScript.PsScript(SIGNATURE, TIMEOUT) p = PythonScript.PyScript ev = PythonScript.PsEvents pc = PythonScript.PsClass print p(ev.Open, pc.File(FILE)) ~ I looked ~around for a while, but only found facilities to use converted ~Dictionaries.. which is totally dependent on signatures, but these ~do not differ for Applescripts!! The idea of these modules was to replace applescripts with python scripts. Bill Bedford Owner Brit_Rail-L list for the history of railways in Britain Subscribe at autoshare@mousa.demon.co.uk From noema@csi.com Sat Jul 18 15:01:41 1998 From: noema@csi.com (Peter Sommerfeld) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:01:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Newby Q's: */** Message-ID: For the prefix asterix (*/**) in the following definition (from guipy) I cannot find a reference. def __init__(self, *args, **kw): self.menu = [] apply(Container.__init__, (self,) + args, kw) Can you explain ? Thanks in advance Peter -- Lueneburg, Germany From red_bird@teleserve.dynip.com Mon Jul 20 03:19:06 1998 From: red_bird@teleserve.dynip.com (Gordon Worley) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 22:19:06 -0400 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] teFlushDefault... Message-ID: I am getting the following error when I try to run some of the examples shiped with MacPython 1.5.1: Traceback (innermost last): File "Not Worthy:Python 1.5.1:Mac:Demo:PICTbrowse:PICTbrowse.py", line 3, in ? import FrameWork File "Not Worthy:Python 1.5.1:Mac:Lib:FrameWork.py", line 11, in ? from Controls import * File "Not Worthy:Python 1.5.1:Mac:Lib:lib-toolbox:Controls.py", line 112, in ? kControlBevelButtonAlignTextSysDirection = teFlushDefault NameError: teFlushDefault I have been doing just CGI and scripts that run text based interfaces in the interperter, so I never had to worry about windowing outside of poping-up a window with Tk to display an important message to the user. This happens in a number of examples: the PICTbrowser, the text editors, and probably most of the others. I looked at the code of the files that the error told me were having a problem. I didn't notice anything during my quick glance. Does anybody have an idea as to what is going on? ________________________________ Red Bird Island Productions Gordon Worley (red_bird) http://rbisland.home.ml.org/ mailto:red_bird@teleserve.dynip.com From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl Mon Jul 20 09:34:55 1998 From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:34:55 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Python for Mac apps... In-Reply-To: Message by Peter Sommerfeld , Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:16:52 +0100 , Message-ID: >> [Quotes Just about the PythonIDE and me about the GRiNS user interface] > > Both of you decided to go the native way. May I ask for the reasons ? In my case it depends on the task at hand. For GRiNS the main reasons for going native (in no particular order) were - I needed QuickTime and some other things that aren't readily available with Tkinter - The original (SGI/Sun Unix) implementation of GRiNS already had hooks for using multiple GUI frameworks - Speed is an issue - As this is (hopefully) going to be distributed far and wide I wanted a native look and feel. For other projects I may well choose to use Tkinter, especially if I want my code to be easily portable to Unix and windows. > PS: Is this list feasible for typical newby questions too ? I dislike to post > bulk like this to the main list. My vote is "yes", and being the SIG admin my vote carries some weight:-) We can always revert that policy (like the Windows SIG did) at some point in the future, but for now I think we should use this forum for all MacPython issues. It's also always good to see that people actually _use_ this stuff:-) -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl Mon Jul 20 09:53:05 1998 From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:53:05 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Newby Q's: */** In-Reply-To: Message by Peter Sommerfeld , Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:01:41 -0400 (EDT) , Message-ID: > For the prefix asterix (*/**) in the following definition (from guipy) I > cannot find a reference. > > def __init__(self, *args, **kw): > self.menu = [] > apply(Container.__init__, (self,) + args, kw) > > Can you explain ? It's explained in the reference manual (and also slightly in the tutorial), which you can find at www.python.org. Here's the quick explanation: - *args gets all "unused" arguments - **kw gets all "unused" keyword arguments. Or, as an example, a function def foo(arg1, *args, **kwargs): pass called as foo(1, 2, 3, spam=4, eggs=5) will get the values arg1 = 1 args = (2, 3) kwargs = { "spam":4, "eggs":5 } -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl Mon Jul 20 12:34:11 1998 From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:34:11 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] teFlushDefault... In-Reply-To: Message by Gordon Worley , Sun, 19 Jul 1998 22:19:06 -0400 , Message-ID: > File "Not Worthy:Python 1.5.1:Mac:Lib:lib-toolbox:Controls.py", line 112, > in ? > kControlBevelButtonAlignTextSysDirection = teFlushDefault > NameError: teFlushDefault Grmpf, why didn't I catch that one:-( The quick workaround is to add a from TextEdit import * to the top on Controls.py -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm From noema@csi.com Mon Jul 20 15:14:12 1998 From: noema@csi.com (Peter Sommerfeld) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Unbound method error Message-ID: Geneva0000,0000,3333Guido writes in the python tutorial: "So, if the class definition looked like this: class MyClass: "A simple example class" i = 12345 def f(x): return 'hello world' then MyClass.i and MyClass.f are valid attribute references, returning an integer and a function object, respectively." I understood that MyClass.f(x) is something like a static class method in C++ because no "self" appears. So I should be able to call MyClass.f(x) But that doesn't work. I get "TypeError: unbound method must be called with class instance 1st argument." Using: Python 1.5.1, Just's IDE on Mac What did I get wrong here ? Thanks in advance Peter -- Lueneburg, Germany From jmcvay@bigfoot.com Mon Jul 20 17:49:24 1998 From: jmcvay@bigfoot.com (Jason McVay) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:49:24 -0400 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] open letter stuffeses Message-ID: Hello everyone! We are the editors of the NewHoo section of Python (http://www.newhoo.com/Computers/Programming_Languages/Python/). We're just building, but we want this niche of the net to be THE Python information. To this end, the following have been done: 1) Deleted outdated links 2) Updated links and descriptions 3) Added new subcategories a) Distributions b) Documentation and Tutorials c) Embedded Python d) Modules (for the BIG modules like PIL, etc. and for pages that have collections of modules) e) Tools (e.g. PTUI) 4) Gave proper recognition to great companies utilitizing Digicool (http://www.digicool.com) and Caligari (http://www.caligari.com/) by marking them as COOL To do: 1) Finish re-categorizing everything 2) Put together a sub-category for people who are brand-spanking-new to Python so they can quickly get a good 'feel' of the language. Items included would be links to simple source code, why Python's better than everything else [wink], introductory documentation, cool things you can easily do with python (to whet appetites), etc. 3) Add sub-category "Advocacy/In the news"? General Things We Want to Avoid: 1) Having 1000s of links a) If you have several modules on your site, submit your URL of the page where your modules are based and in the description you (or we) will list the modules therein. 3) Replacing python.org a) Ideally, the NewHoo section would have only one link in each subcategory-each link leading to a correlating section at python.org that has (nearly) complete listings of anything wanted or needed in that subsection. If the python.org webmaster would like to get together with me, I'd love to help coordinate! What we ask of you: 1) If you find something valuable that is not at the NewHoo section, write us so we write it up. a) especially - good source/docs/tutorials, good modules, embedded uses b) are you doing something on the fringe of technology and want us to help publicize? drop us a line. 2) If you find a dead link or some inaccurate info, write us so we can get it fixed. Bad information is frustrating! 3) Support Python and PSA in any way that you can! We appreciate your time and support of all things Python! Jason McVay Robin Dunn NewHoo Python Section Editors P.S. Please only contact jmcvay@bigfoot.com with any questions. . . Jason McVay (jmcvay@bigfoot.com) http://www.lynn.edu/jmcvay/ Resident Hall Director Judicial Coordinator Webmaster all@Lynn University http://www.lynn.edu/ ----- For powerful programming, go to http://www.python.org Python Rules! What a GREAT OO language! From noema@csi.com Mon Jul 20 20:13:13 1998 From: noema@csi.com (Peter Sommerfeld) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:13:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Unbound method error Message-ID: Ooops... Got the error. Sorry for posting :-( Peter From jmcvay@bigfoot.com Thu Jul 23 17:27:49 1998 From: jmcvay@bigfoot.com (Jason McVay) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:27:49 -0400 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] ANN: editable Python To-DO List now live at www.python.org Message-ID: our illustrious leader has given me permission [wink] to broadcast to the python community that there is now an editable python TO-DO (a la the FAQ Wizard) list at http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/todo.py there is a broad range of topics, so if you have an idea to make python better in any way, go put it on the list. of course, placing an item on the list does not guarantee its inclusion in future releases, but please include your idea anyway--getting ideas into the discussion is very important; you may come up with something that sparks another neat idea. even more important, however, is volunteering to get some of these things done. your few hours of work can save MANY man hours of your colleagues reinventing the wheel. . . thanks for your time, consideration, and dedication to python. sincerely, jason mcvay Jason McVay (jmcvay@bigfoot.com) http://www.lynn.edu/jmcvay/ Resident Hall Director Judicial Coordinator Webmaster all@Lynn University http://www.lynn.edu/ ----- For powerful programming, go to http://www.python.org Python Rules! What a GREAT OO language! From A.M.INGRALDI@larc.nasa.gov Fri Jul 24 17:35:08 1998 From: A.M.INGRALDI@larc.nasa.gov (Anthony M. Ingraldi) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:35:08 -0400 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] OSAm leaking? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello, I've writen an applet to perform UNIX cron-like scheduling on my Mac. I made use of the OSAm module to launch the applications/scripts at the desired times. It appears that OSAm has a memory leak in it--over time the applet memory partition is maxed out and my system hangs. Is there a way I can determine where the leak is? It may not be in OSAm but that is my prime suspect. -- Tony Ingraldi | e-mail: A.M.INGRALDI@LaRC.NASA.GOV NASA Langley Research Center | Mail Stop 267 | Phone : (757) 864-3039 Hampton, VA 23681-2199 | Fax : (757) 864-7892 From jpaint@serv.net Fri Jul 24 18:05:46 1998 From: jpaint@serv.net (Jay Painter) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:05:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] OSAm leaking? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hmmm, I thought I got rid of all the memory leaks. I have to admit, neither Sean Hummel (who origionally wrote it) or I (cleaned up a bunch of memory leaks) have much experience writing Python modules. There's also the problem that there is almost no documentation on the C interface to executing Applescript. I usually give about 15-25 MB of memory to my Python scripts, and I havn't noticed a problem, but I also havn't looked very hard. Regards, Jay Painter ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Jay Painter -- jpaint@serv.net -- jpaint@gimp.org -- jpaint@real.com http://www.serv.net/~jpaint On Fri, 24 Jul 1998, Anthony M. Ingraldi wrote: > Hello, > > I've writen an applet to perform UNIX cron-like scheduling on my Mac. I > made use of the OSAm module to launch the applications/scripts at the > desired times. It appears that OSAm has a memory leak in it--over time the > applet memory partition is maxed out and my system hangs. > > Is there a way I can determine where the leak is? It may not be in OSAm > but that is my prime suspect. > > -- > Tony Ingraldi | e-mail: A.M.INGRALDI@LaRC.NASA.GOV > NASA Langley Research Center | > Mail Stop 267 | Phone : (757) 864-3039 > Hampton, VA 23681-2199 | Fax : (757) 864-7892 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > > From A.M.INGRALDI@larc.nasa.gov Fri Jul 24 18:19:39 1998 From: A.M.INGRALDI@larc.nasa.gov (Anthony M. Ingraldi) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:19:39 -0400 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] OSAm leaking? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 10:05 AM -0700 7/24/98, Jay Painter wrote: > I usually give about 15-25 MB of memory to my >Python scripts, and I havn't noticed a problem, The applet I'm having the problem is intended to be run continuosly since it is a task scheduler. I thought it would be reasonable to assign a 1 MB partition to the applet and 1 MB is more than sufficient for it start up and begin it's duties. Essentially what it does is sleep for 60 second intervals and when it wakes up it determines if any events are scheduled to run at that moment. If there are events to be run, it uses OSAm to launch them. Even 2 MB seems excessive for such a simple program. -- Tony Ingraldi | e-mail: A.M.INGRALDI@LaRC.NASA.GOV NASA Langley Research Center | Mail Stop 267 | Phone : (757) 864-3039 Hampton, VA 23681-2199 | Fax : (757) 864-7892 From seanh@prognet.com Fri Jul 24 18:45:51 1998 From: seanh@prognet.com (Sean Hummel) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:45:51 -0700 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] OSAm leaking? Message-ID: <199807241745.AA22535@murrow.prognet.com> I too have not noticed any memory leaks. Although one thing to be aware of is that OSAM does not own the string you pass in for the script. This means it doesn't delete string, and that you must. Another interesting tidbit is that each time you run OSAm is that the OSA component gets loaded and unloaded. This causes some fragmentation of the heap, but what can you do? >At 10:05 AM -0700 7/24/98, Jay Painter wrote: > > >> I usually give about 15-25 MB of memory to my >>Python scripts, and I havn't noticed a problem, > >The applet I'm having the problem is intended to be run continuosly since >it is a task scheduler. I thought it would be reasonable to assign a 1 MB >partition to the applet and 1 MB is more than sufficient for it start up >and begin it's duties. > >Essentially what it does is sleep for 60 second intervals and when it wakes >up it determines if any events are scheduled to run at that moment. If >there are events to be run, it uses OSAm to launch them. Even 2 MB seems >excessive for such a simple program. > >-- > Tony Ingraldi | e-mail: A.M.INGRALDI@LaRC.NASA.GOV > NASA Langley Research Center | > Mail Stop 267 | Phone : (757) 864-3039 > Hampton, VA 23681-2199 | Fax : (757) 864-7892 > > > >_______________________________________________ >Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org >http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sean Hummel RealNetworks Inc. Core Technologies Developer "If you manipulate the atoms of carbon, you get diamonds. If you manipulate the atoms of air, dirt, and water, you get potatoes." -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From dozier@bellatlantic.net Sat Jul 25 16:14:33 1998 From: dozier@bellatlantic.net (Bill Dozier) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:14:33 -0400 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac, MIDI and sysex -- Tkinter question In-Reply-To: <199807241600.MAA03157@python.org> Message-ID: Hi, I'm new to Python, but I'm already working to get my company to use it in a number of areas. It is by far the easiest to learn language of the several that I know. I want to write a MIDI patch librarian for some of my equipment, to run on the Mac. To do this, I really only need to send & receive sysex messages. Can someone point me to a reference, book, whatever (preferably with code examples) to help me get started? I've searched through the QuickTime 3.0 and CWPro 3 dox and all over the net, but I haven't found anything yet. The MacOS API is the wierdest one I've ever seen. Thanks!!! PS It's always seemed to me that Tk for the Mac has some memory management problems (I can never run it for long without a memory-type crash). Do any of you use it for anything "mission-critical," or does everyone use the native (and, therefore not portable) module? Bill Dozier Mortgage Physicist From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl Sat Jul 25 22:31:42 1998 From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 23:31:42 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac, MIDI and sysex -- Tkinter question In-Reply-To: Message by Bill Dozier , Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:14:33 -0400 , Message-ID: Bill, I set out to write a mac midi module three times (I already have an SGI midi module, and a couple of modules to parse and interpret midifiles, use the locator to find them), but each time I gave up. The quicktime midi interface is just plain broken, because you have to do all your own timing. The other stuff like OMS is just as bad, as far as I understand it. What I _think_ should be done is to use a separate thread (or some sort of interrupt-driven scheme?) to handle timing, write a C wrapper around that that just accepts an array of midi events and sends them out with the correct timing and a Python wrapper around that. I'd be more than willing to help with advise, but I have absolutely no time to spend on implementing this, unfortunately:-( -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm From 76703.4222@compuserve.com Sun Jul 26 12:18:33 1998 From: 76703.4222@compuserve.com (Jason Harper) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 04:18:33 -0700 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Diff utility Message-ID: <35BB1072.4D90595F@compuserve.com> Does anyone know of any Unix-compatible diff tool for the Mac? I have some ideas for some enhancements to the Python core, but I have no practical way of submitting them. Searching the Web has turned up various links, none of which have lead anywhere useful. Jason Harper From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl Sun Jul 26 22:43:52 1998 From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 23:43:52 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac, MIDI and sysex -- Tkinter question In-Reply-To: Message by Jack Jansen , Sat, 25 Jul 1998 23:31:42 +0200 , Message-ID: Recently, Jack Jansen said: > The > quicktime midi interface is just plain broken, because you have to do > all your own timing. The other stuff like OMS is just as bad, as far > as I understand it. As it was just pointed out to me that there are people on the list involved with implementing these I guess I should qualify these statements:-) What I meant was: both OMS and quicktime midi assume that the program using them is in charge of its own timing, so it can give the right quicktime calls or send the right OMS messages at the correct time. They unfortunately don't seem to have an interface that allows you to stuff a number of time values and command/arguments into a buffer and say "here, go do these and tell me when its done", such as the Sound Manager has (and, to a lesser extent, QuickTime for movies, where you only have to call MoviesTask once in a while and that's it). But, of course, if the functionality is in there somewhere and I've missed it I will be the first to applaud whoever corrects me:-) -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl Sun Jul 26 22:45:29 1998 From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 23:45:29 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Diff utility In-Reply-To: Message by Jason Harper <76703.4222@compuserve.com> , Sun, 26 Jul 1998 04:18:33 -0700 , <35BB1072.4D90595F@compuserve.com> Message-ID: Recently, Jason Harper <76703.4222@compuserve.com> said: > Does anyone know of any Unix-compatible diff tool for the Mac? The easiest would probably be to use unix diff (but do use diff -c in that case). CodeWarrior has a diff since the previous version, but I have no idea whether the diffs are exportable and useable... -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm From jstrout@ucsd.edu Sun Jul 26 23:58:22 1998 From: jstrout@ucsd.edu (Joseph J. Strout) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:58:22 -0700 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Diff utility In-Reply-To: References: Message by Jason Harper <76703.4222@compuserve.com> , Sun, 26 Jul 1998 04:18:33 -0700 , <35BB1072.4D90595F@compuserve.com> Message-ID: >Recently, Jason Harper <76703.4222@compuserve.com> said: >> Does anyone know of any Unix-compatible diff tool for the Mac? > >The easiest would probably be to use unix diff (but do use diff -c in >that case). Umm, how is a unix diff a "diff tool for the Mac"? I think the original poster was asking for a diff utility that runs under MacOS, not Unix. I would also be interested in such a utility. Cheers, -- Joe ,------------------------------------------------------------------. | Joseph J. Strout Department of Neuroscience, UCSD | | joe@strout.net http://www.strout.net | `------------------------------------------------------------------' From billpy@mousa.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 27 01:24:33 1998 From: billpy@mousa.demon.co.uk (Bill Bedford) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:24:33 +0100 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Diff utility In-Reply-To: <35BB1072.4D90595F@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <172000597228233054921@mousa.demon.co.uk> At 4:18 am -0700 26/07/98, Jason Harper wrote: ~Does anyone know of any Unix-compatible diff tool for the Mac? I have ~some ideas for some enhancements to the Python core, but I have no ~practical way of submitting them. Searching the Web has turned up ~various links, none of which have lead anywhere useful. ~ Jason Harper ~ There's a version of the GNU diff distributed with Alpha Bill Bedford Owner Brit_Rail-L list for the history of railways in Britain Subscribe at autoshare@mousa.demon.co.uk From dozier@bellatlantic.net Tue Jul 28 03:28:40 1998 From: dozier@bellatlantic.net (Bill Dozier) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 22:28:40 -0400 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Mac, MIDI and sysex In-Reply-To: <199807271600.MAA02638@python.org> Message-ID: >Recently, Jack Jansen said: >> The >> quicktime midi interface is just plain broken, because you have to do >> all your own timing. The other stuff like OMS is just as bad, as far >> as I understand it. > >As it was just pointed out to me that there are people on the list >involved with implementing these I guess I should qualify these >statements:-) > >What I meant was: both OMS and quicktime midi assume that the program >using them is in charge of its own timing, so it can give the right >quicktime calls or send the right OMS messages at the correct >time. They unfortunately don't seem to have an interface that allows >you to stuff a number of time values and command/arguments into a >buffer and say "here, go do these and tell me when its done", such as >the Sound Manager has (and, to a lesser extent, QuickTime for movies, >where you only have to call MoviesTask once in a while and that's it). Apparently "Midishare" has this functionality. I'm trying to grok their documentation; unfortunately much of the example code is in Pascal and pretty much all of the comments are in French. The guy that wrote OMS is in PSA (Doug Wyatt). It would be great if he did a Mac/Windows PyMidi, no? Bill Dozier Mortgage Physicist From doug@sonosphere.com Tue Jul 28 22:37:49 1998 From: doug@sonosphere.com (Doug Wyatt) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:37:49 -0400 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Mac, MIDI and sysex In-Reply-To: References: <199807271600.MAA02638@python.org> Message-ID: Hi, At 22:28 -0400 7/27/98, Bill Dozier wrote: > >Recently, Jack Jansen said: > >> The > >> quicktime midi interface is just plain broken, because you have to do > >> all your own timing. The other stuff like OMS is just as bad, as far > >> as I understand it. > > > >As it was just pointed out to me that there are people on the list > >involved with implementing these I guess I should qualify these > >statements:-) > > > >What I meant was: both OMS and quicktime midi assume that the program > >using them is in charge of its own timing, so it can give the right > >quicktime calls or send the right OMS messages at the correct > >time. They unfortunately don't seem to have an interface that allows > >you to stuff a number of time values and command/arguments into a > >buffer and say "here, go do these and tell me when its done", such as > >the Sound Manager has (and, to a lesser extent, QuickTime for movies, > >where you only have to call MoviesTask once in a while and that's it). More as a reaction to the increasing lameness of operating systems than programmer-friendliness, I think the next major revision of OMS will probably support some way to schedule MIDI output in advance. And choke it off if you change your mind. (The MPU-401 returns!) > Apparently "Midishare" has this functionality. I'm trying to grok their > documentation; unfortunately much of the example code is in Pascal and > pretty much all of the comments are in French. > > The guy that wrote OMS is in PSA (Doug Wyatt). It would be great if he did > a Mac/Windows PyMidi, no? Sorry, I don't really do Windows much, but I understand that MME isn't that horrible to program. I've played around a bit with Python and MIDI, and even got something primitive working at one point, but I must have archived the source because it doesn't seem to be on my hard disk ... I wish I could volunteer to do this, but between work and trying to stay sane by playing music, I really don't have the time. If someone else would find the project a bit less daunting by my offering to help, I'm available to answer questions ... Doug -- Doug Wyatt doug@sonosphere.com Sonosphere (electric/improv music) http://www.sonosphere.com/ "Accidental Beauties" CD release: http://www.sonosphere.com/wyatt/ available from CMC, 1-800-882-4262 http://www.MusicDiscoveries.com/ From guzdial@cc.gatech.edu Wed Jul 29 15:11:10 1998 From: guzdial@cc.gatech.edu (Mark Guzdial) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:11:10 -0400 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Diff utility In-Reply-To: <172000597228233054921@mousa.demon.co.uk> References: <35BB1072.4D90595F@compuserve.com> Message-ID: >~Does anyone know of any Unix-compatible diff tool for the Mac? I have >~some ideas for some enhancements to the Python core, but I have no >~practical way of submitting them. Searching the Web has turned up >~various links, none of which have lead anywhere useful. >~ Jason Harper BBedit can do a diff, and BBedit Lite (free!) may be able to do it as well. Mark -------------------------- Mark Guzdial : Georgia Tech : College of Computing : Atlanta, GA 30332-0280 (404) 894-5618 : Fax (404) 894-0673 : guzdial@cc.gatech.edu http://www.cc.gatech.edu/gvu/people/Faculty/Mark.Guzdial.html From doh@z.zgs.de Wed Jul 29 20:17:19 1998 From: doh@z.zgs.de (Lukas Latz) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:17:19 +0000 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Diff utility References: <35BB1072.4D90595F@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <35BF753E.3FF069D4@z.zgs.de> Mark Guzdial wrote: > > >~Does anyone know of any Unix-compatible diff tool for the Mac? I have > >~some ideas for some enhancements to the Python core, but I have no > >~practical way of submitting them. Searching the Web has turned up > >~various links, none of which have lead anywhere useful. > >~ Jason Harper > > BBedit can do a diff, and BBedit Lite (free!) may be able to do it as well. > im not shure what diff on unix is, is it a tool for comparing files? if so, thats one of those things that bbedit does and bbedit lite doesnt (says so in the quickstart doc.) however theres a shareware java app called comparadocs that does this. www.ahaweb.com/comparadocs cheers, lukas "Scheisse, koi Brombeerjoghurt!" Martin Kley ____________________________________________________ Lukas Latz doh@z.zgs.de xx49-711-2859295 Karl-Schurz-Str. 23 70190Stuttgart Germany ____________________________________________________ From sdm7g@virginia.edu Wed Jul 29 18:40:37 1998 From: sdm7g@virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:40:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Diff utility In-Reply-To: <35BF753E.3FF069D4@z.zgs.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Lukas Latz wrote: > Mark Guzdial wrote: > > > > >~Does anyone know of any Unix-compatible diff tool for the Mac? I have > > >~some ideas for some enhancements to the Python core, but I have no > > >~practical way of submitting them. Searching the Web has turned up > > >~various links, none of which have lead anywhere useful. > > >~ Jason Harper > > > > BBedit can do a diff, and BBedit Lite (free!) may be able to do it as well. > > > > im not shure what diff on unix is, is it a tool for comparing files? > if so, thats one of those things that bbedit does and bbedit lite doesnt > (says so in the quickstart doc.) > however theres a shareware java app called comparadocs that does this. > www.ahaweb.com/comparadocs > The Alpha text editor for the Mac has a 'diff' capability. 6.5 has 'compare files', 'compare windows' & 'compare directories'. ( 'windows' gives a nice side by side view with the difs window at bottom) 7.0 removes this menu but has GnuDiff in the tools folder. ( I haven't figured out how to use this yet, and I'm going to SLOWLY convert over to 7.0 as I figure out all of the changes.) ---| Steven D. Majewski (804-982-0831) |--- ---| Department of Molecular Physiology and Biological Physics |--- ---| University of Virginia Health Sciences Center |--- ---| P.O. Box 10011 Charlottesville, VA 22906-0011 |--- "I'm not as big a fool as I used to be, I'm a smaller fool." - Jack Kerouac Some of the Dharma From A.M.INGRALDI@larc.nasa.gov Wed Jul 29 20:07:27 1998 From: A.M.INGRALDI@larc.nasa.gov (Anthony M. Ingraldi) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:07:27 -0400 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] OSAm leaking? In-Reply-To: <199807241745.AA22535@murrow.prognet.com> Message-ID: At 10:45 AM -0700 7/24/98, Sean Hummel wrote: > >Another interesting tidbit is that each time you run OSAm is that the OSA >component gets loaded and unloaded. This causes some fragmentation of the >heap, but what can you do? I used ZoneRanger to peak at the memory allocation for my applet. After each OSAm load/unload cycle there are four handles left in memory above the previous high-memory location. (I'm using the OSAm.CompileAndExecute method.) Here's a sample of how memory appears after a few load/unload sequences: Address Size Pad Type Attr ASCII Contents ---------- ---------- ------ ------- ----- -------------------------------- ... stuff deleted ... 0118851344 0 20 Handle * L.. ..............`.........8`... 0118851376 14420 0 Free . ... ...ascr.....Zp..$............ 0118865808 0 20 Handle . ... .Programming...-........ .... 0118865840 0 20 Handle . ... .cation runn...-........ ..-. 0118865872 0 20 Handle . ... .tion is run...-..-......,... 0118865904 11412 0 Free . ... ...ascr.....0.............. 0118877328 0 20 Handle * L.. .............. .........8`..%p 0118877360 14420 0 Free . ... ...ascr........ ............ 0118891792 0 20 Handle . ... .Programming..SP..%....... ... 0118891824 0 20 Handle . ... .cation runn..SP..%0...... ... 0118891856 0 20 Handle . ... .tion is run..SP..%P......,..R0 0118891888 11412 0 Free . ... ...ascr........t............ 0118903312 0 20 Handle * L.. ..............+..R.......8`... 0118903344 14420 0 Free . ... ...ascr.....%p..$............ 0118917776 0 20 Handle . ... .Programming..-........ ...- 0118917808 0 20 Handle . ... .cation runn..-..䃴...... ... 0118917840 0 20 Handle . ... .tion is run..-..-......,.. 0118917872 11412 0 Free . ... ...ascr.....R0..h............ 0118929296 0 20 Handle * L.. .............. ........8`...p 0118929328 14420 0 Free . ... .*..ascr........ ............ 0118943760 0 20 Handle . ... .Programming...P.......... ... 0118943792 0 20 Handle . ... .cation runn...P...0...... ... 0118943824 0 20 Handle . ... .tion is run...P...P......,...0 0118943856 11412 0 Free . ... ...ascr.......P............ 0118955280 0 20 Handle * L.. .........................QP... 0118955312 1265988 0 Free . ... ...............p..3......7pt -- Tony Ingraldi | e-mail: A.M.INGRALDI@LaRC.NASA.GOV NASA Langley Research Center | Mail Stop 267 | Phone : (757) 864-3039 Hampton, VA 23681-2199 | Fax : (757) 864-7892 From wolfgang@amadeus.m.eunet.de Wed Jul 29 18:12:53 1998 From: wolfgang@amadeus.m.eunet.de (Wolfgang Keller) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:12:53 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Suggestion for PythonMac-tutorial: droplets? Message-ID: Hello, there doesn't seem to be any example available of how to write a droplet in Python. Is this possible at all? If so, is there an example somewhere? How about including it in the demo folder of the Python distribution? TIA, Wolfgang Keller Zu Risiken und Nebenwirkungen von Junkmail lesen Sie de.admin.net-abuse.mail und fragen sie Ihren Postmaster oder Provider From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl Wed Jul 29 23:01:27 1998 From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:01:27 +0200 Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Suggestion for PythonMac-tutorial: droplets? In-Reply-To: Message by Wolfgang Keller , Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:12:53 +0200 , Message-ID: Recently, Wolfgang Keller said: > Hello, > > there doesn't seem to be any example available of how to write a droplet in > Python. If I understand the term "droplet" correct, an applet on which you can drop files, then every Python applet is a droplet. By default every applet will accept files of any type, and they'll all end up in sys.argv. If you want to change the former you can supply your own resource file with a different BNDL resource, if you want to change the latter, and do your own startup AppleEvent processing (for instance because you want to catch a GURL startup event) you drop your applet on EditPythonPrefs and set the "no argc/argv" and preferrably "no starup option dialog" options. Do people feel that this behaviour deserves special mention in the documentation? -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm From boyle@pcmdi.llnl.gov Wed Jul 29 23:16:14 1998 From: boyle@pcmdi.llnl.gov (James Boyle) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:16:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Pmw on the mac? Message-ID: <199807292216.PAA13786@cobra.llnl.gov> I'm using Pmw on an SGI and a Sun and everthing works quite well. I often do python work at home on my mac(G3), but Pmw appears to have some serious problems on that platform. I saw in the archive of this group that these Pmw problems have been noted before. Is anyone working on Pmw for the Mac or is it related to fundamental Tk shortcomings? I'm not fussy about the 'look and feel', the cross platform aspect is more important. Thanks for any information. Jim From sdm7g@virginia.edu Wed Jul 29 23:43:22 1998 From: sdm7g@virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:43:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Suggestion for PythonMac-tutorial: droplets? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, Jack Jansen wrote: > Recently, Wolfgang Keller said: > > Hello, > > > > there doesn't seem to be any example available of how to write a droplet in > > Python. > > If I understand the term "droplet" correct, an applet on which you can > drop files, then every Python applet is a droplet. By default every > applet will accept files of any type, and they'll all end up in > sys.argv. If you want to change the former you can supply your own > resource file with a different BNDL resource, if you want to change > the latter, and do your own startup AppleEvent processing (for > instance because you want to catch a GURL startup event) you drop your > applet on EditPythonPrefs and set the "no argc/argv" and preferrably > "no starup option dialog" options. > > Do people feel that this behaviour deserves special mention in the > documentation? Yes -- because of the Mac's non-cli oriented nature, droplets are especially useful. Back when I was bugging you about changing the default BNDLs, I posted some examples of trying to make a generic framework for this sort of thing, which included recursive expansion of dropped folders/disks/directories, filtering on file types or names, and progress bars and prompts. One example was a file-typer utility which took it's destination type from it's sys.argv[0] name: named "-->CARO" , it makes Acrobat Reader the Creator, renamed "-->vgrd" it makes them into PostScript textfiles, and renamed "-->MOSS" it makes Netscape the owner. ( Perhaps an improved version would use file extensions and/or Internet Config to do multiple conversions .PDF-->CARO, .HTML->MOSS, .PS->vgrd so you could update a whole folder or diskful of files with one drop.) If you're interested in an example, I'll dig back and see if this has been completely updated for 1.5.1 . ---| Steven D. Majewski (804-982-0831) |--- ---| Department of Molecular Physiology and Biological Physics |--- ---| University of Virginia Health Sciences Center |--- ---| P.O. Box 10011 Charlottesville, VA 22906-0011 |--- "I'm not as big a fool as I used to be, I'm a smaller fool." - Jack Kerouac Some of the Dharma From aa126@fan.nb.ca Fri Jul 31 04:14:34 1998 From: aa126@fan.nb.ca (William Burrow) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:14:34 -0300 (ADT) Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python as CGI Message-ID: I am attempting to port some Python files from Unix to a Mac web server. I am interested in knowing how one sets up a Python file for execution as a CGI program. Attempts to build the .py file as an Applet fail. Any clues? -- William Burrow, VE9WIL -- New Brunswick, Canada o Copyright 1997 William Burrow ~ /\ ~ ()>()