From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Mon Sep  2 10:14:06 1996
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 11:14:06 +0200
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] Python + PaperPort?
In-Reply-To: Message by guzdial@cc.gatech.edu (Mark Guzdial) ,
 Fri, 30 Aug 1996 18:11:57 -0400 (EDT) , <v02130500ae4cdee2f732@[130.207.31.66]>
Message-ID: <9609020914.AA28027=jack@schelvis.cwi.nl>

> Does anybody else using Python on the Mac have a PaperPort?  Again with
> 1.4b3 (as with 1.3.3) when I tried to run MkPluginAliases, I got:
> 
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "flap:jack:Python:Mac:scripts:MkPluginAliases.py", line 11, in ?
> ImportError: No module named os
> 
> I decided to try it with no extensions today, and <ta-dah> everything
> worked fine!  11 restarts after fiddling with extensions later, it comes
> down to the Paperport control panel.  If it's loaded, I can't run Python;
> if it isn't, everything's fine.

The error message seems to point at a problem with STR# resource 129, where 
sys.path is stored. If the Paperport software somehow puts a new resource 129 
somewhere in the system resources Python will see this during startup and 
attempt to use it as initialization for sys.path.

I don't know of an easy fix, if this is indeed the problem. For the next 
release I will access the "global" resources by name in stead of by number.

Hmm, on second hands I *do* know a workaround. Start Python with extensions 
off, and let it create the preferences file. With ResEdit, open the 
preferences file and the interpreter, and copy STR# 128 from the preferences 
file to the interpreter as STR# 129.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 



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From just@knoware.nl  Mon Sep  2 14:55:47 1996
From: just@knoware.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 15:55:47 +0200
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] Python + PaperPort?
Message-ID: <v01540b00ae50b3ce29c1@[193.78.237.33]>

At 11:14 AM 9/2/96, Jack Jansen wrote:
>> Does anybody else using Python on the Mac have a PaperPort?  Again with
>> 1.4b3 (as with 1.3.3) when I tried to run MkPluginAliases, I got:
>>
>> Traceback (innermost last):
>>   File "flap:jack:Python:Mac:scripts:MkPluginAliases.py", line 11, in ?
>> ImportError: No module named os
>>
>> I decided to try it with no extensions today, and <ta-dah> everything
>> worked fine!  11 restarts after fiddling with extensions later, it comes
>> down to the Paperport control panel.  If it's loaded, I can't run Python;
>> if it isn't, everything's fine.
>
>The error message seems to point at a problem with STR# resource 129, where
>sys.path is stored. If the Paperport software somehow puts a new resource 129
>somewhere in the system resources Python will see this during startup and
>attempt to use it as initialization for sys.path.
>
>I don't know of an easy fix, if this is indeed the problem. For the next
>release I will access the "global" resources by name in stead of by number.
>
>Hmm, on second hands I *do* know a workaround. Start Python with extensions
>off, and let it create the preferences file. With ResEdit, open the
>preferences file and the interpreter, and copy STR# 128 from the preferences
>file to the interpreter as STR# 129.

If thats's indeed the problem, wouldn't it be easier to check for a STR# nr. 129
with Get1Resource(), to make sure only the current res file is searched?


Just




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From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Mon Sep  2 15:23:24 1996
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 16:23:24 +0200
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] Python + PaperPort?
In-Reply-To: Message by just@knoware.nl (Just van Rossum) ,
 Mon, 2 Sep 1996 15:55:47 +0200 , <v01540b00ae50b3ce29c1@[193.78.237.33]>
Message-ID: <9609021423.AA00109=jack@schelvis.cwi.nl>

> >Hmm, on second hands I *do* know a workaround. Start Python with extensions
> >off, and let it create the preferences file. With ResEdit, open the
> >preferences file and the interpreter, and copy STR# 128 from the preferences
> >file to the interpreter as STR# 129.
> 
> If thats's indeed the problem, wouldn't it be easier to check for a STR# nr. 129
> with Get1Resource(), to make sure only the current res file is searched?

This is difficult, since the application is not the "topmost" resource file 
anymore by the time this code gets executed (the shared library has also been 
added to the resource file chain). Finding the application file to open it 
again would be rather cumbersome.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 



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From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Wed Sep  4 13:03:35 1996
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 14:03:35 +0200
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] System 6
Message-ID: <9609041203.AA16619=jack@schelvis.cwi.nl>

Is anyone using Python under System 6, or does anyone know of people
who do so?

Sys6 compatability hasn't been tested for a long long time anyway, and I
would like to rip out the System 6 compatability code (which needs to
be taken out to prepare for MacOS 8 anyway).
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 

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From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Wed Sep  4 14:15:05 1996
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 15:15:05 +0200
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] Event handling bug in 1.4b3
Message-ID: <9609041315.AA17139=jack@schelvis.cwi.nl>

Before you all start complaining (i.e. why haven't you complained
yet:-): I just found a bug in the 1.4b3 event handling code, which
effectively means that Python does not look at the event queue when
your program is busy, with the exception of checking for
command-dot. This means you are not able to switch applications, type
ahead, etc.

Sorry, it will be fixed in 1.4 (or contact me if this seriously
inconveniences you).
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 



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From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Fri Sep  6 10:31:58 1996
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 11:31:58 +0200
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] MSDOS floppies
Message-ID: <9609060931.AA02817=jack@schelvis.cwi.nl>

I just noticed that Python doesn't like MSDOS floppies very much:
- os.chdir('DOSDISK:') does not work (making an alias to the floppy
  and chdir()ing there does work!)
- os.listdir(':') when your working directory is a dos floppy does not
  work.

Personally, I couldn't care less:-), but if anyone feels the urge to
dive into the problem I will graciously accept donations of working
code...
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 

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From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Mon Sep  9 15:03:14 1996
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 16:03:14 +0200
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] Update for MacPython 1.4b3 for CFM68K
Message-ID: <9609091403.AA26511=jack@schelvis.cwi.nl>

If you are using the CFM68K version of MacPython 1.4b3 and you are
experiencing problems with creating applets or with using Tkinter you
should download
<ftp://ftp.cwi.nl/pub/jack/python/mac/Python-14b3-CFM68K-update1.hqx>.

This fixes the following bugs:
- _tkinter was built so that you don't need to install a full Tcl/Tk
  distribution on your system, but this didn't work correctly. Now it
  does.
- Applets were created with the same creator-code as the interpreter,
  making it difficult to run normal scripts after creating an
  applet. This has been fixed.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 

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From jshell@inconnect.com  Mon Sep  9 15:48:39 1996
From: jshell@inconnect.com (jeffrey P. Shell)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 08:48:39 -0600
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] applet question
References: <9609091403.AA26511=jack@schelvis.cwi.nl>
Message-ID: <32342E47.40F3@inconnect.com>

one quick question:  when an Applet is 'made', is the Python code 
contained within the applet?  or does it point to the code it needs?  
primarily, with some of the Python code i'm working on, there is a 
central Module/Framework i'm using, and a few different 'front ends' 
that access that Module.  the code in the front ends doesn't change too 
much, but the Framework is.  Do i have to rebuild the Applets that use 
that Framework everytime i change it?  It's no huge deal, but i'm just 
wondering before i start building everything in my excitement over the 
CFM version of Python :).

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From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Mon Sep  9 16:41:42 1996
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 17:41:42 +0200
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] applet question
In-Reply-To: Message by "jeffrey P. Shell" <jshell@inconnect.com> ,
 Mon, 09 Sep 1996 08:48:39 -0600 , <32342E47.40F3@inconnect.com>
Message-ID: <9609091541.AA27486=jack@schelvis.cwi.nl>

> one quick question:  when an Applet is 'made', is the Python code 
> contained within the applet?  or does it point to the code it needs?  
> primarily, with some of the Python code i'm working on, there is a 
> central Module/Framework i'm using, and a few different 'front ends' 
> that access that Module.  the code in the front ends doesn't change too 
> much, but the Framework is.  Do i have to rebuild the Applets that use 
> that Framework everytime i change it?  It's no huge deal, but i'm just 
> wondering before i start building everything in my excitement over the 
> CFM version of Python :).

Jeffrey,
the compiled code for the main module is incorporated in the applet, nothing 
else. Actually, I use this fact for debugging applets: make your main code do 
nothing else than 'execfile("real_applet_code.py")' and you only have to run 
mkapplet once. Then, when I'm satisfied that the code works I rename 
real_applet_code.py to the real name and run mkapplet once.

There is actually a way to create a fully self-contained applet, but I haven't 
documented it yet since the procedure is a bit involved and I want to 
streamline it (if I find the time).

For the adventurous, here is the procedure:
- Collect *all* modules used by your program into a folder. I really mean
  "all", so including anything from Lib, etc.
- Run compileall.py on that folder.
- Run PackLibDir on the folder, giving you a resource file with PYC resources
  for all your modules.
- Temporarily replace PythonApplet by either PythonStandalone (PPC) or
  Python68K (68k).
- Create your applet. (And don't forget to put PythonApplet back in its place).
- Use ResEdit to copy the PYC resources from your PackLibDir output file to 
your
  applet. PYC resource numbers are not important (names are), so let resedit
  fix the duplicates.
- Drop the applet onto EditPythonPrefs, remove all sys.path components and
  replace them by the single string $(APPLICATION)
- I think you have to use ResEdit to remove the "alis" resource from the
  resulting applet to make it truly portable, but I'm not 100% sure.

You now have a fully standalone application that you can give away to anyone, 
it does not depend on any Python infrastructure anymore, even if the program 
is run on a machine that has python already installed.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 



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From managan@llnl.gov  Mon Sep  9 19:21:18 1996
From: managan@llnl.gov (Rob Managan)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 11:21:18 -0700
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] Numerical Python
Message-ID: <v03007802ae59ad69d983@[128.115.186.111]>

I have compiled the Numeric python libraries for the Mac. For Power PC
users it should be as easy as expanding the archive and adding two
directories to the pythonpaths with EditPythonPrefs.

AFter a few people test it I suggest I send the archive to Jack to store
with the rest of the Mac software. I suggest this since I don't have a ftp
site available to me.

Currently this is compiled for version 1.4b3 of Python and 1.0a2 of the
Numeric module.

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-**-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Rob Managan               managan@llnl.gov
LLNL                      ph:  510-423-0903
P.O. Box 808, L-178       FAX: 510-423-5804
Livermore, CA  94551-0808




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From jstrout@ucsd.edu  Fri Sep 13 16:12:59 1996
From: jstrout@ucsd.edu (Joseph Strout)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 08:12:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] drawing cicns (or better yet, "sprites")?
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.94.960913081008.13521D-100000@golgi>

Hi all,

	Does anyone know if it's possible to plot cicns (color icons) from
Python?  I can load the resource with GetResource, but then I can't figure
out how to DO anything with it.

	FYI, what I'm really after is a way to draw simple sprites, so I
can get my little brothers-in-law hooked on Python.  They're only
interested in games, and "game" to them means moving shapes.  I'm about
ready to give up on Python and use Chipmunk Basic instead... so if you
have any info, we'd be much obliged.

Thanks,
-- Joe

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout           Department of Neuroscience, UCSD   |
|    jstrout@ucsd.edu           http://www-acs.ucsd.edu/~jstrout/  |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'


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From jstrout@ucsd.edu  Sun Sep 15 17:49:29 1996
From: jstrout@ucsd.edu (Joseph Strout)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 09:49:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] wanted: "Run Python" BBEdit extension
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.94.960915094410.19606A-100000@golgi>

In my never-ending quest for a Mac programming language for kids that
doesn't suck, I've recently been looking at Chipmunk Basic.  It comes with
a very cool feature: a BBEdit plug-in that adds a "Run as Chipmunk Basic"
command to the Extensions menu.  You edit your source in BBEdit (Lite),
pick this off the menu, and poof! the Mac switches to Chipmunk Basic,
loads your code, and executes it.

In Python, the most efficient paradigm I've come up with is to edit my
code, save it, then switch to the Finder and drag the file onto the Python
app.  Then when it's done I have to be sure to quit (Python).  This is not
terrible, but the BBEdit extension is nicer.

Of course, *nicest* would be a Mac Python IDE.  Edit your code (with
syntax hilighting), command-R to run, command-D to debug, set breakpoints
just by clicking the little stop signs in the sidebar...  ah, but now I'm
just dreaming...

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout           Department of Neuroscience, UCSD   |
|    jstrout@ucsd.edu           http://www-acs.ucsd.edu/~jstrout/  |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'


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From jstrout@ucsd.edu  Sun Sep 15 17:49:29 1996
From: jstrout@ucsd.edu (Joseph Strout)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 09:49:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] wanted: "Run Python" BBEdit extension
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.94.960915094410.19606A-100000@golgi>

In my never-ending quest for a Mac programming language for kids that
doesn't suck, I've recently been looking at Chipmunk Basic.  It comes with
a very cool feature: a BBEdit plug-in that adds a "Run as Chipmunk Basic"
command to the Extensions menu.  You edit your source in BBEdit (Lite),
pick this off the menu, and poof! the Mac switches to Chipmunk Basic,
loads your code, and executes it.

In Python, the most efficient paradigm I've come up with is to edit my
code, save it, then switch to the Finder and drag the file onto the Python
app.  Then when it's done I have to be sure to quit (Python).  This is not
terrible, but the BBEdit extension is nicer.

Of course, *nicest* would be a Mac Python IDE.  Edit your code (with
syntax hilighting), command-R to run, command-D to debug, set breakpoints
just by clicking the little stop signs in the sidebar...  ah, but now I'm
just dreaming...

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout           Department of Neuroscience, UCSD   |
|    jstrout@ucsd.edu           http://www-acs.ucsd.edu/~jstrout/  |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'


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From sdm7g@virginia.edu  Sun Sep 15 20:34:13 1996
From: sdm7g@virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 15:34:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] wanted: "Run Python" BBEdit extension
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.3.94.960915094410.19606A-100000@golgi>
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.92.960915152123.16316A-100000@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU>



  Another share-ware editor, Alpha, is like a somewhat more macified
version of emacs: it supports syntax coloring, and interfaces to
other programs. You would need to write a python-mode module in
Tcl. I use this in my xlisp-stat programming now over BEDIT,because
someone else contributed an xlisp mode. I have not delved into
the inner working of extending the editor yet, so I have no idea
what it would take.

  The "official" OSA conforming way to do this is to separate the
interpreter from the interface and control it with do-script
apple events. Thus you can buy a fancier more featured development
environment for AppleScript than the vanilla script editor that
comes from Apple. I have no idea how language dependent any of
these editors are -- if Mac Python was more OSA compliant, could
you use the AppleScript editor for Python development ? I don't
know. ( And no time at the moment to research the question, although
I WILL try to look at a couple of Alpha programs to see how hard
it would be to add a python mode. I've been using it for Python
without a language specific mode - the handiest command is to
shift block of code left/right.)


---|  Steven D. Majewski   (804-982-0831)  <sdm7g@Virginia.EDU>  |---
---|  Computer Systems Engineer          University of Virginia  |---
---|  Department of Molecular Physiology and Biological Physics  |---
---|  Box 449 Health Science Center    Charlottesville,VA 22908  |---
 [ "The grass is always greener, except at t=0" - Stan Kelly-Bootle ]


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From friedric@rose.rsoc.rockwell.com  Sun Sep 15 21:01:22 1996
From: friedric@rose.rsoc.rockwell.com (Robin Friedrich)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 15:01:22 -0500
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] wanted: "Run Python" BBEdit extension
Message-ID: <199609152001.PAA15787@darwin.rsoc.rockwell.com>

Steve,

I too use Alpha and have been wishing for a Python mode but have
not had time to learn TCL enough to implement it myself. After 
looking at several other Alpha mode implementations it seems 
straightforward. If you get to it before I do I would love to try
it out. I'm unsure about the spawning of a macpython process though.

-Robin Friedrich

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From just@knoware.nl  Sun Sep 15 21:18:38 1996
From: just@knoware.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 22:18:38 +0200
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] wanted: "Run Python" BBEdit extension
Message-ID: <v01540b03ae620cd500f4@[193.78.237.31]>

At 9:49 AM 9/15/96, Joseph Strout wrote:
>In my never-ending quest for a Mac programming language for kids that
>doesn't suck, I've recently been looking at Chipmunk Basic.  It comes with
>a very cool feature: a BBEdit plug-in that adds a "Run as Chipmunk Basic"
>command to the Extensions menu.  You edit your source in BBEdit (Lite),
>pick this off the menu, and poof! the Mac switches to Chipmunk Basic,
>loads your code, and executes it.

It should be very easy, I'll look into it, I've written a simple BBEdit
extension before, and with AppleEvents, it should be a breeze, to speak
with Jack. I already have a simple engine that lets you send python code to
the interpreter via AE.

>In Python, the most efficient paradigm I've come up with is to edit my
>code, save it, then switch to the Finder and drag the file onto the Python
>app.  Then when it's done I have to be sure to quit (Python).  This is not
>terrible, but the BBEdit extension is nicer.

>Of course, *nicest* would be a Mac Python IDE.  Edit your code (with
>syntax hilighting), command-R to run, command-D to debug, set breakpoints
>just by clicking the little stop signs in the sidebar...  ah, but now I'm
>just dreaming...

Well, I have an attempt at such a thing going, but it's not *near* beta.
Integrated editor (supports collapsing!) and run command is there, Jack's
working on a graphical debugger, so somehow I believe there'll be something
very nice at some point. I don't know yet how to do syntax highlighting
efficiently.

It's however unlikely this will be finished before 1.4 mac will be released
though.

Let me know if you want to have a look at the current state of my stuff.

Just


PS: i got this message twice, is that normal?



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From jac@gandalf.llnl.gov  Sun Sep 15 22:23:12 1996
From: jac@gandalf.llnl.gov (James Crotinger)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 96 14:23:12 PDT
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] Alpha & Emacs
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.92.960915152123.16316A-100000@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU>
References: <Pine.SGI.3.94.960915094410.19606A-100000@golgi>
 <Pine.A32.3.92.960915152123.16316A-100000@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU>
Message-ID: <9609152123.AA04533@gandalf.llnl.gov>

Steven D. Majewski writes:
 > 
 > 
 >   Another share-ware editor, Alpha, is like a somewhat more macified
 > version of emacs: it supports syntax coloring, and interfaces to
 > other programs. You would need to write a python-mode module in
 > Tcl. I use this in my xlisp-stat programming now over BEDIT,because
 > someone else contributed an xlisp mode. I have not delved into
 > the inner working of extending the editor yet, so I have no idea
 > what it would take.

  Alpha is a pretty poor excuse for emacs. There is a version of emacs
that runs on the mac (at ftp://ftp.cs.cornell.edu/pub/parmet), but it
is based on Emacs 18. I use it when I really want emacs, but it has
some problems, so I use Alpha for most things. I'd REALLY like an
Emacs 19 port, but haven't seen any indication that this is being done.

  Jim


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From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Mon Sep 16 10:02:02 1996
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 11:02:02 +0200
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] wanted: "Run Python" BBEdit extension
In-Reply-To: Message by just@knoware.nl (Just van Rossum) ,
 Sun, 15 Sep 1996 22:18:38 +0200 , <v01540b03ae620cd500f4@[193.78.237.31]>
Message-ID: <9609160902.AA19470=jack@schelvis.cwi.nl>

> At 9:49 AM 9/15/96, Joseph Strout wrote:
> [...] a BBEdit plug-in that adds a "Run as Chipmunk Basic"
> >command to the Extensions menu.  You edit your source in BBEdit (Lite),
> >pick this off the menu, and poof! the Mac switches to Chipmunk Basic,
> >loads your code, and executes it.
> 
> It should be very easy, I'll look into it, I've written a simple BBEdit
> extension before, and with AppleEvents, it should be a breeze, to speak
> with Jack. I already have a simple engine that lets you send python code to
> the interpreter via AE.

I have collected various parts you need for this (mainly a similar BBEdit 
extension to run a MacPerl script), but I cannot interface it to the 
interpreter at the moment. Or, more precise: I can get the appleevent to the 
interpreter, but at the time the interpreter gets the event it will be 
somewhere deep down in the stdio/sioux library doing a read from the console, 
and I can't think of a good way to get control back to the interpreter in a 
controlled way.

This will be fixed when (a) the IDE is finished (since then we'll control our 
own eventloop) or (b) we have our own console module (since then we can signal 
it to terminate the read). Both/either of these should happen fairly soon.

--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 



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From just@knoware.nl  Mon Sep 16 12:03:25 1996
From: just@knoware.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:03:25 +0200
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] wanted: "Run Python" BBEdit extension
Message-ID: <v01540b02ae62fc12ca4c@[193.78.237.39]>

At 11:02 AM 9/16/96, Jack Jansen wrote:
>> At 9:49 AM 9/15/96, Joseph Strout wrote:
>> [...] a BBEdit plug-in that adds a "Run as Chipmunk Basic"
>> >command to the Extensions menu.  You edit your source in BBEdit (Lite),
>> >pick this off the menu, and poof! the Mac switches to Chipmunk Basic,
>> >loads your code, and executes it.
>>
>> It should be very easy, I'll look into it, I've written a simple BBEdit
>> extension before, and with AppleEvents, it should be a breeze, to speak
>> with Jack. I already have a simple engine that lets you send python code to
>> the interpreter via AE.

>I have collected various parts you need for this (mainly a similar BBEdit
>extension to run a MacPerl script), but I cannot interface it to the
>interpreter at the moment. Or, more precise: I can get the appleevent to the
>interpreter, but at the time the interpreter gets the event it will be
>somewhere deep down in the stdio/sioux library doing a read from the console,
>and I can't think of a good way to get control back to the interpreter in a
>controlled way.

We could get it very easily to run if we start a generalized version of my
PythonSlave. (It is a simple FrameWork app which responds to AppleEvents.)
The only disadvantages are: you don't have an interactive mode (although we
could fake that) and you have to start that script explicitly. Hmm, it's of
course possible to have the extension start the script, but then you have
to send an AE to the Finder, and that's something I haven't mastered yet.
In fact I tried to look it up in inside mac and just couldn't find it. Does
anyone know more?

>This will be fixed when (a) the IDE is finished (since then we'll control our
>own eventloop) or (b) we have our own console module (since then we can signal
>it to terminate the read). Both/either of these should happen fairly soon.

Hmm, I'm pretty busy right now, I'm not sure when I can get the stuff I'm
working on finished :-(
As soon as I've sorted out the main problems with my editor and if you
provide a way to hook up your debugger, we're really getting there. That's
the point when we should ask people to test it.

Just



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From just@knoware.nl  Mon Sep 16 15:20:48 1996
From: just@knoware.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:20:48 +0200
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] ANNOUNCE: BBEdit extension to run python scripts
Message-ID: <v01540b03ae632d595cc4@[193.78.237.85]>

I've put together a very basic BBEdit extension, that sort of does what Joe
requested. If you're interested, I'll send the archive. I have no ftp
server.

Just

-- Here's the READ ME:

BBPython -- a BBEdit extension to make the Python interpreter exectute the
content of the current window.



contents:
-       BBPython -- the extension
-       PythonSlave.py -- the "slave" script that handles the AppleEvents

-       source -- source code & CW9 project for the extension

quickstart:
-       drop BBPuthon in BBEdit extensions folder
-       double-click PythonSlave.py
-       start BBEdit
-       type some code
-       go to Extensions menu: "Perform as Python"
-       be happy

warning:
        since PythonSlave.py runs its own event loop and we have no interface
        to SIOUX you *cannot* copy from the console. Duh.

extra feature:
        while PythonSlave.py is running you can still double-click Python
        documents, they will get executed as if Python was not alreadu running.

bugs:
        perhaps


Have fun with it!
And please report bugs, or fix 'em.


Just van Rossum, Letterror
<just@knoware.nl>



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From sdm7g@virginia.edu  Mon Sep 16 15:55:43 1996
From: sdm7g@virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:55:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] ANNOUNCE: BBEdit extension to run python scripts
In-Reply-To: <v01540b03ae632d595cc4@[193.78.237.85]>
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.92.960916105213.16696A-100000@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU>

On Mon, 16 Sep 1996, Just van Rossum wrote:

> I've put together a very basic BBEdit extension, that sort of does what Joe
> requested. If you're interested, I'll send the archive. I have no ftp
> server.
>

Yes - please send a copy.
[ You might as well send it out to the whole list -- I think the
  PYTHONMAC-SIG audience is specific enough that most everyone will
  be interested to at least take a look at it. ]


---|  Steven D. Majewski   (804-982-0831)  <sdm7g@Virginia.EDU>  |---
---|  Computer Systems Engineer          University of Virginia  |---
---|  Department of Molecular Physiology and Biological Physics  |---
---|  Box 449 Health Science Center    Charlottesville,VA 22908  |---
 [ "The grass is always greener, except at t=0" - Stan Kelly-Bootle ]


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From just@knoware.nl  Mon Sep 16 16:04:07 1996
From: just@knoware.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:04:07 +0200
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] ANNOUNCE: BBEdit extension to run python scripts
Message-ID: <v01540b03ae6338e11251@[193.78.237.32]>

At 10:55 AM 9/16/96, Steven D. Majewski wrote:
>Yes - please send a copy.

ok, I did.

>[ You might as well send it out to the whole list -- I think the
>  PYTHONMAC-SIG audience is specific enough that most everyone will
>  be interested to at least take a look at it. ]

Hmm, if everybody is really interested, we'd better put it on ftp somewhere.
I'd rather not harass the people that might not want it.

Jack? ftp.python.org/contrib ?
But I'd rather have it tested by a few people before we do that...

Just



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From friedric@rose.rsoc.rockwell.com  Mon Sep 16 16:19:01 1996
From: friedric@rose.rsoc.rockwell.com (Robin Friedrich)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:19:01 -0500
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] ANNOUNCE: BBEdit extension to run python scripts
Message-ID: <199609161519.KAA17427@darwin.rsoc.rockwell.com>

|> Steve wrote:
|> >[ You might as well send it out to the whole list -- I think the
|> >  PYTHONMAC-SIG audience is specific enough that most everyone will
|> >  be interested to at least take a look at it. ]
|> 

Please don't. the majodomo will not forward anything larger than 40KB.

|> Hmm, if everybody is really interested, we'd better put it on ftp somewhere.
|> I'd rather not harass the people that might not want it.
|> 
|> Jack? ftp.python.org/contrib ?
|> But I'd rather have it tested by a few people before we do that...

I would just upload it to ftp.python.org and have them put it in contrib.

Looking forward to it.

-Robin

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From billpy@mousa.demon.co.uk  Mon Sep 16 18:14:49 1996
From: billpy@mousa.demon.co.uk (billpy@mousa.demon.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:14:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <v03007801ae624e310b2e@Heaton>

Reply - To:  
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 00:27:33 +0000
To: pythonmac-sig@python.org
From: Bill Bedford <billpy@mail.demon.net>
Subject: Re:[PYTHONMAC-SIG] wanted: "Run Python" BBEdit extension

--============_-1369288835==_============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 4:49 pm +0000 on 15/09/96, Joseph Strout wrote:


~In my never-ending quest for a Mac programming language for kids that
~doesn't suck, I've recently been looking at Chipmunk Basic.  It comes with
~a very cool feature: a BBEdit plug-in that adds a "Run as Chipmunk Basic"
~command to the Extensions menu.  You edit your source in BBEdit (Lite),
~pick this off the menu, and poof! the Mac switches to Chipmunk Basic,
~loads your code, and executes it.
~
~In Python, the most efficient paradigm I've come up with is to edit my
~code, save it, then switch to the Finder and drag the file onto the Python
~app.  Then when it's done I have to be sure to quit (Python).  This is not
~terrible, but the BBEdit extension is nicer.

I have 3 Fkey programed with KeyQuencer
F13 is 'import <module name>'
F14 is 'reload(<module name>)'
F15 is '<module name>.Main()'

I write in alpha, switch to Python using the controlstrip and press F14 F15.

OK each time I start work on a new module I have to change the Keyquencer
scripts, but that is no big deal.

I've attatched a simple  alpha python mode file - no doubt someone can
improve it.

--============_-1369288835==_============
Content-Type: text/plain; name="pythonMode.tcl"; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pythonMode.tcl"

#############################################################################
# Python.tcl
#  John Sarapata
#  sarapata_john@jpmorgan.com
#
# Installing:
#	Put AppleScript.tcl in your Usercode folder
#   Put the following line in userstartup.tcl:
#     source $HOME:Tcl:Usercode:AppleScript.tcl
#
# Description:
#	This file implements an AppleScript mode, for people who wish Script
#	Editor had complex functions like search and replace. Currently, it
#	only supports color editing and function finding, but I may extend it.
#
#	I have not found a way to distinguish function definitions from
#	on error constructs, so I assume that any "on name" statements at
#	the beginning of the line are definitions. Script Editor saves files
#	in this format, so you will only need to be careful when creating
#	functions in Alpha.
#############################################################################
	if {$startingUp} {
		addMode Python dummyPython {*.py *.pyc} PythonMenu
		addMenu PythonMenu
		return
	}

#===============================================================================
#	Set up the mode variables
newModeVar	Python 	elecRBrace			{0}	1
newModeVar	Python 	electricSemi		{0}	1
newModeVar	Python	elecLBrace			{0} 1
newModeVar	Python	electricTab			{0} 1
newModeVar	Python	wordWrap			{0} 1
newModeVar	Python	autoMark			{def}	0
newModeVar	Python	prefixString		{#} 0
newModeVar	Python	leftFillColumn 		{3} 0
newModeVar	Python	funcExpr			{^(def)
+([a-zA-Z0-9_]+\(\):)} 0
newModeVar	Python	wordBreak 			{[a-zA-Z0-9_]+} 0
newModeVar	Python	wordBreakPreface 	{[^a-zA-Z0-9_]} 0
newModeVar	Python	stringColor	green	0
newModeVar	Python	commentColor	red	0
newModeVar	Python	keywordColor	blue	0

proc dummyPython {} {}

#===============================================================================
#	Set up comments and keywords
set PythonKeyWords {
	and elif from lambda return break else global not try class
	except if or while continue exec import pass def finally in
	print del for is raise
}
if {[info exists Pythonwords]} {set PythonKeyWords [concat $PythonKeyWords
$Pythonwords]}
regModeKeywords -e {#} -c $PythonmodeVars(commentColor) -k
$PythonmodeVars(keywordColor) Python $PythonKeyWords -s
$PythonmodeVars(stringColor)
unset PythonKeyWords



#===============================================================================
#	File Marking
proc PythonMarkFile {} {
	global PythonmodeVars
	set pos 0
	while {![catch {search -f 1 -r 1 -m 0 -i 1
$PythonmodeVars(funcExpr) $pos} res]} {
		set start [lindex $res 0]
		set end [lindex $res 1]
		set text [lindex [getText $start $end] 1]
		set pos $end
		set inds($text) "$start $end"
	}

	if {[info exists inds]} {
		foreach f [lsort [array names inds]] {
			setNamedMark $f [lineStart [lineStart [lindex
$inds($f) 0]] - 1] [lindex $inds($f) 0] [lindex $inds($f) 1]
		}
	}
}


--============_-1369288835==_============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Bill Bedford                                  Designer of Photo-Etches
 billb@mousa.demon.co.uk


               owner Brit_Rail-L  ---  british railways historical list

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------

--============_-1369288835==_============--

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From jshell@inconnect.com  Mon Sep 16 21:18:52 1996
From: jshell@inconnect.com (jeffrey P. Shell)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 14:18:52 -0600
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] BBEdit (full)
Message-ID: <323DB62C.13AF@inconnect.com>

[NOTE: i originally sent this reply just to Joseph, but realized it's info the 
whole list might need.  Also, since this writing I've picked up Alpha and have 
been rather impressed, but since i have the full BBEdit i think i will use that 
for now]

Joseph Strout wrote:
>
> In my never-ending quest for a Mac programming language for kids that
> doesn't suck, I've recently been looking at Chipmunk Basic.  It comes with
> a very cool feature: a BBEdit plug-in that adds a "Run as Chipmunk Basic"
> command to the Extensions menu.  You edit your source in BBEdit (Lite),
> pick this off the menu, and poof! the Mac switches to Chipmunk Basic,
> loads your code, and executes it.
>
> In Python, the most efficient paradigm I've come up with is to edit my
> code, save it, then switch to the Finder and drag the file onto the Python
> app.  Then when it's done I have to be sure to quit (Python).  This is not
> terrible, but the BBEdit extension is nicer.
>
> Of course, *nicest* would be a Mac Python IDE.  Edit your code (with
> syntax hilighting), command-R to run, command-D to debug, set breakpoints
> just by clicking the little stop signs in the sidebar...  ah, but now I'm
> just dreaming...

you know, if i had CodeWarrior, i'd make that extension.. :)  i use BBEdit (i
got the full 3.5.2 now) extensively.  I can't remember if BBEdit lite has this
function, but in BBEdit 3.5 there's a small menu on the Phillips bar (?) that
has a seperate item for each mac folder leading to the file, including the
file itself.  Combining that with Snitch (a freeware utility that extends the
finders "Get Info" command and allows you to set Type/Creator) to set the
files to load Python instead of BBEdit, i pull down that menu, click on the
file in the finder (it just finds it for you basically), and run it.  I know
there's a Run Perl extension out as well, so a Python one shouldn't be too
hard to make..  if only i had the right tools at this time.. :)

i think a few well-placed letters to BareBones software about Python would be
nice as well.  The full versions of BBEdit offer a lot of little programming
helps, and i think 4.0 colorizes the code.  But Python isn't supported (yet).
A Mac-Python IDE would be nice, but you seldom get really really good editors
like BBEdit in such an environment.  (Hell, even BBEdit Lite is so far above
anything else i've used on the mac to date)

--
.jPS || jshell@inconnect.com || http://www.cynapses.com/ry/

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From just@knoware.nl  Wed Sep 18 02:19:30 1996
From: just@knoware.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 03:19:30 +0200
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] Q: How To Tell The Finder To Launch An App With A Doc?
Message-ID: <v01540b01ae651892f148@[193.78.237.46]>

Although this is not a Python specific question, I hope you don't mind
asking here. It's still Python related.

In my BBEdit extension in which I can send Python code to the interpreter I
would like to give a prompt when the slave script is not running, asking
the user to locate it and then: Launch The Interpreter With The Script.
I am told I have to send an AppleEvent to the Finder to do this, but I've
crawled through most of the stuff on my Inside Mac CD and I Can't Bleedin'
Find It. Does anyone know what event to send? Or what else to do? I think
Jack would also like to know, so we can also make a convenient call for
this in Python / aetools.py. No More Connection Invalid Errors. Please?

Thanks so much in advance.

Just



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From roseman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca  Wed Sep 18 03:14:47 1996
From: roseman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Mark Roseman)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 20:14:47 -0600
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] Q: How To Tell The Finder To Launch An App With A Doc?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 18 Sep 1996 03:19:30 +0200."
 <v01540b01ae651892f148@[193.78.237.46]>
Message-ID: <199609180214.UAA09739@janu.cpsc.ucalgary.ca>

In message <v01540b01ae651892f148@[193.78.237.46]>you write:
> In my BBEdit extension in which I can send Python code to the interpreter I
> would like to give a prompt when the slave script is not running, asking
> the user to locate it and then: Launch The Interpreter With The Script.
> I am told I have to send an AppleEvent to the Finder to do this, but I've
> crawled through most of the stuff on my Inside Mac CD and I Can't Bleedin'
> Find It. Does anyone know what event to send? Or what else to do? I think
> Jack would also like to know, so we can also make a convenient call for
> this in Python / aetools.py. No More Connection Invalid Errors. Please?

here is part of a tcl extension i wrote that did this..

mark


/*
 * Launch a file, optionally specifying a type and creator (0L to leave as is).
 * This works exactly as if you'd double clicked on the file in the Finder, which
 * not surprisingly is how its implemented (via the AppleEvents route of course).
 */
 
int LaunchFile(OSType creator, OSType type, char *filename) {
 	FSSpec docFile, dirSpec;
	OSErr result;
 	FInfo docInfo;
 	AEAddressDesc finderAddress;
 	AppleEvent theEvent, reply;
 	long aSig = 'MACS';
 	AliasHandle DirAlias, FileAlias;
 	AEDesc fileList;
	AEDesc aeDirDesc, listElem;
 
	if ((result = FSMakeFSSpec (0, 0, c2pstr(filename), &docFile)) != noErr) {
		return -1;
	}
	if ((result = FSpGetFInfo(&docFile, &docInfo)) != noErr) {
		return -2;
	}
	
	if (creator!=(OSType) 0L) {
		docInfo.fdCreator = creator;
	}
	if (type!=(OSType) 0L) {
		docInfo.fdType = type;
	}
	if ((creator!=(OSType)0L) || (type!=(OSType)0L)) {
		if ((result = FSpSetFInfo(&docFile, &docInfo)) != noErr) {
			return -3;
		}
	}
		
	if ((result = AECreateDesc(typeApplSignature, (Ptr)&aSig, 4, &finderAddress)) != noErr) {
		return -4;
	}
	if ((result = AECreateAppleEvent('FNDR', 'sope', &finderAddress,
			kAutoGenerateReturnID, kAnyTransactionID, &theEvent)) != noErr) {
		return -5;
	}

	FSMakeFSSpec(docFile.vRefNum, docFile.parID, nil, &dirSpec);
	NewAlias(nil, &dirSpec, &DirAlias);
	NewAlias(nil, &docFile, &FileAlias);
	result = AECreateList(nil, 0, 0, &fileList);
	HLock((Handle)DirAlias);
	AECreateDesc(typeAlias, (Ptr)*DirAlias, GetHandleSize((Handle)DirAlias), &aeDirDesc);
	HUnlock((Handle)DirAlias);
	if ((result = AEPutParamDesc(&theEvent, keyDirectObject, &aeDirDesc)) == noErr) {
		AEDisposeDesc(&aeDirDesc);
		HLock((Handle)FileAlias);
		AECreateDesc(typeAlias, (Ptr)*FileAlias, GetHandleSize((Handle)FileAlias), &listElem);
		HLock((Handle)FileAlias);
		result = AEPutDesc(&fileList, 0, &listElem);
	}
	AEDisposeDesc(&listElem);
	result = AEPutParamDesc(&theEvent, 'fsel', &fileList);
	AEDisposeDesc(&fileList);
		
	if ((result = AESend(&theEvent, &reply, kAENoReply+kAENeverInteract,
			kAENormalPriority, kAEDefaultTimeout, 0L, 0L)) != noErr) {
		return -6;
	}
	if ((result = AEDisposeDesc(&theEvent)) != noErr) {
		return -7;
	}
	if ((result = AEDisposeDesc(&reply)) != noErr) {
		return -8;
	}
	return 0;
}

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From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Thu Sep 19 11:42:38 1996
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 12:42:38 +0200
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] Q: How To Tell The Finder To Launch An App With A
 Doc?
In-Reply-To: Message by Mark Roseman <roseman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca> ,
 Tue, 17 Sep 1996 20:14:47 -0600 , <199609180214.UAA09739@janu.cpsc.ucalgary.ca>
Message-ID: <9609191042.AA14818=jack@schelvis.cwi.nl>

YES!!!!

Thanks, Mark, for pointing me in the right direction. I never managed to find 
out how to make the finder open something, but I was looking in the new (7.1) 
finder suite, and it turns out that this is much more easily done using the 
7.0 finder scripting interface.

If people can't wait for this functionality until the 1.4 release: let me know 
and I'll send you the example code in Python.

One minor problem remains: with this interface you have to specify the fsspec 
or full pathname of the application you want to launch, while what you would 
really want is to specify either the 4-char creator or (possibly) the filename 
only of the application. Does anyone have code to browse through the finders' 
desktop database to get from creator to full pathname?
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 



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From roseman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca  Thu Sep 19 15:46:52 1996
From: roseman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Mark Roseman)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 08:46:52 -0600
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] Q: How To Tell The Finder To Launch An App With A Doc?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Sep 1996 12:42:38 +0200."
 <9609191042.AA14818=jack@schelvis.cwi.nl>
Message-ID: <199609191446.IAA06965@janu.cpsc.ucalgary.ca>

> One minor problem remains: with this interface you have to specify the fsspec
> or full pathname of the application you want to launch, while what you would 
> really want is to specify either the 4-char creator or (possibly) the filenam
> e 
> only of the application. Does anyone have code to browse through the finders'
> desktop database to get from creator to full pathname?

i'll send you code to dig the application out of the desktop database
separately.  but you'll also want to keep the existing functionality,
as it lets you "double-click" on a document and have it launch its
app, not only just launch an app.

mark

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From just@knoware.nl  Thu Sep 19 16:49:59 1996
From: just@knoware.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 17:49:59 +0200
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] Q: How To Tell The Finder To Launch An App With A 	 Doc?
Message-ID: <v01540b01ae6717a8bb93@[193.78.237.52]>

At 12:42 PM 9/19/96, Jack Jansen wrote:
>YES!!!!

My sentiments exactly...

>One minor problem remains: with this interface you have to specify the fsspec
>or full pathname of the application you want to launch, while what you would
>really want is to specify either the 4-char creator or (possibly) the filename
>only of the application. Does anyone have code to browse through the finders'
>desktop database to get from creator to full pathname?

With this interface you have to specify the FSSpec of the *file* to be
launched, not of the application, the finder sorts it out using the creator
of the file.
I guess there must also be an event type that let you launch an app without
a document by just telling its signature. But how...

Just



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From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Mon Sep 23 15:46:10 1996
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:46:10 +0200
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] Design of MacPython CGI interface
Message-ID: <9609231446.AA16456=jack@schelvis.cwi.nl>

Folks,
I've gotten CGI scripts in Python to work, more or less, but now I'm
thinking of the final design of the interface and I'm stuck, so I'd
like some feedback.

On unix (and NT, and probably most other systems) Python CGI scripts
are run as "main program". They import the cgi module, use its
functionality to obtain the script parameters, send their resulting
document to stdout and terminate.

On the Mac, the situation is different. A CGI script is run and should
immedeately go into its eventloop. It will then receive a "do CGI
script" AppleEvent, which contains the script parameters. Then, the
script should execute and pass the resulting document back to the
webserver as the data in the AppleEvent reply. After this, the script
can either remain running (to wait for the next "do CGI script"
AppleEvent) or exit (in which case it will be restarted the next time
it is needed).

I can think of a number of ways to design the MacPython CGI interface:

1. Forget about compatability with Unix CGI scripts altogether. This
   would result in an interface something like

   import maccgi

   def myscript(args):
	rv = "Content-Type: blabla\n"
	rv = rv + blablabla
	...
	return rv

   maccgi.run(myscript)

2. Implement the above interface, and ask Guido to optionally support
   this interface for Unix/NT as well. (so people who use this
   interface get compatability, people who use the current unix
   interface don't).

3. Similar to (2), but implement some things in the Mac interface that
   would make it a bit more unix-like. The two things that come to
   mind are
   - in maccgi.run(), setup stdout to point to a file-like object so
     the "print" statement can be used for output generation
   - don't pass the arguments in the call to myscript() but use the
     cgi.FieldStorage() idiom used by the unix scripts (possibly
     augmented with stuffing things into sys.environ).
   The unix cgi.py would contain the routine

   def run(func):
	func()
   for compatability.

4. Make porting even easier for the unix buffs, by allowing the script
   code to be in the script body (in stead of in a separate routine,
   as in the three designs above). This would mean writing routines
   maccgi.start() and maccgi.end(), where the start routine would go
   into the eventloop until the "do CGI script" event was received,
   decode it, setup stdout as in (3) and return. End() would collect
   the stdout results and send them as AppleEvent reply.

5. Something else altogether.

I would personally favor solution (3), but Guido appears not too
willing to change cgi.py (although I can always hope, of course, that
this message will convince him otherwise). And, of course, it is
possible that people have brilliant ideas for (5), or that people
think CGI script portability isn't a worthwile issue.

What do people think?
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 

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From gandreas@skypoint.com  Tue Sep 24 03:54:47 1996
From: gandreas@skypoint.com (Glenn Andreas)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:54:47 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] PowerPlant?
Message-ID: <v01540b00ae6cb3e78fb5@[10.0.2.15]>

Considering how unappealing the Tkinter stuff is for a mac application, one
alternative would be to leverage off an existing framework, namely
PowerPlant (the "write your own" is second on the list, but since
PowerPlant provides all sorts of goodies that "write your own" doesn't...).
It seems that if Python could use the PowerPlant framework (and
Constructor), this could be a very big deal for the MacPython communitee.

Now, in "a previous life" I spent a great deal of time hacking wxPython, so
I got to see, in general, how to fit Python into a class framework, but is
the "pass the object as an opaque magic cookie through a procedural
(non-object orient) interface" techinque the best thing to do?

I was envisioning something more like making a subclass of all
"interesting" PP classes that was "scriptendable" - basically there was a
python object associated with the object, and then all the method calls
would first get passed through the Python layer (assuming the corresponding
method call existed in Python land).  Yes, creating these subclasses this
seems like a lot code, but with the AppleScriptability of CW10, almost all
of it could be automated (which was one of the reasons I never considered
doing this before).

Any other suggestions on strategies on how to best structure the marriage
of the C++ and the Python objects?  There are obviously other problems to
deal with as well (for example, registering the class "read from stream"
routines, and who exactly owns the main event loop: the SIOUX console
window or PP) but these seem small in comparision...


I'm not promising anything here yet mind you, but I know that I would be
quite happy and more productive if I could whip up a PP based app as fast
as I was able to whip up a Motif app using wxPython...


Glenn Andreas                                 Author of Macintosh games:
gandreas@skypoint.com, gandreas@aol.com             Theldrow 2.3
http://www.skypoint.com/members/gandreas            Blobbo 1.0.2
ftp://ftp.skypoint.com/pub/members/g/gandreas
Be good, and you will be lonesome



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From roseman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca  Tue Sep 24 04:06:59 1996
From: roseman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Mark Roseman)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:06:59 -0600
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] PowerPlant?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:54:47 CDT."
 <v01540b00ae6cb3e78fb5@[10.0.2.15]>
Message-ID: <199609240307.VAA02378@janu.cpsc.ucalgary.ca>

Glenn wrote:
> Considering how unappealing the Tkinter stuff is for a mac application, one
> alternative would be to leverage off an existing framework, namely
> PowerPlant..

pardon my ignorance, what about the tkinter stuff doesn't work well,
or is it just the lack of proper native look and feel, which is coming
along at sun?

the problem with targeting powerplant is that not only is it a lot of
work, but the framework keeps changing, so its a never ending amount
of work to do it right.  so unless there's a good resource commitment
somewhere.. or maybe i'm just showing my bias against anything that
isn't a cross-platform solution. :-)

mark
=============================================================================
Mark Roseman, Research Associate         phone: (403) 220-3532 / 220-7259
Dept. of Computer Science                fax: (403) 284-4707
University of Calgary                    email: roseman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca
Calgary, Alta CANADA  T2N 1N4            http://www.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~roseman

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From jstrout@ucsd.edu  Tue Sep 24 04:52:27 1996
From: jstrout@ucsd.edu (Joseph Strout)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:52:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] PowerPlant?
In-Reply-To: <v01540b00ae6cb3e78fb5@[10.0.2.15]>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.94.960923204946.6208C-100000@golgi>

On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Glenn Andreas wrote:

> Considering how unappealing the Tkinter stuff is for a mac application, one
> alternative would be to leverage off an existing framework, namely
> PowerPlant (the "write your own" is second on the list, but since
> PowerPlant provides all sorts of goodies that "write your own" doesn't...).

As a third alternative, what about a smaller C++ framework?  There's one
called "MacZoop" which looks very nice.  It's tiny, both in code and
complexity (only 5 core classes, I believe), but it does all the basics.
More info is available at:

	http://www.warwick.ac.uk/~corbe/MacZoop/MacZoop.html

I like your idea of layering Python right on top of the C++ object
interface -- and automating this via Applescript is a great idea.  (Though
I would think that one could just as easily munch the header files with a
Python script...)

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout           Department of Neuroscience, UCSD   |
|    jstrout@ucsd.edu           http://www-acs.ucsd.edu/~jstrout/  |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'


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From friedric@rose.rsoc.rockwell.com  Tue Sep 24 13:58:29 1996
From: friedric@rose.rsoc.rockwell.com (Robin Friedrich)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 07:58:29 -0500
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] PowerPlant?
Message-ID: <199609241258.HAA02907@darwin.rsoc.rockwell.com>


|> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:06:59 -0600
|> From: Mark Roseman <roseman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca>
|> 
|> Glenn wrote:
|> > Considering how unappealing the Tkinter stuff is for a mac application, one
|> > alternative would be to leverage off an existing framework, namely
|> > PowerPlant..
|> 
|> pardon my ignorance, what about the tkinter stuff doesn't work well,
|> or is it just the lack of proper native look and feel, which is coming
|> along at sun?

>From what I've seen the tkinter stuff on the Mac consumes way too much
resource (both memory and cpu) to be practical for anything but tinkering.
I would really like to see a toolbox native GUI builder for Python but 
that almost inhibits any crossplatform options without a lot of work.
(What happened with wxPython for the Mac? btw)


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From gandreas@skypoint.com  Tue Sep 24 14:27:26 1996
From: gandreas@skypoint.com (Glenn Andreas)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:27:26 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] PowerPlant?
Message-ID: <v01540b01ae6ccaa1e430@[10.0.2.15]>

>Glenn wrote:
>> Considering how unappealing the Tkinter stuff is for a mac application, one
>> alternative would be to leverage off an existing framework, namely
>> PowerPlant..
>
>pardon my ignorance, what about the tkinter stuff doesn't work well,
>or is it just the lack of proper native look and feel, which is coming
>along at sun?

Here's a couple of reasons where Tk fails and PowerPlant doesn't
        the look and feel
        its capabilities (for example, does it support drag & drop? Or
                how about a spread sheet class?)
        speed
        tools (like the PowerPlant constructor for generating the UI)
        ability to easily create new widgets in C++

Of course Tk provides:
        cross-platform
        it already works
        easy to write code to (Tkinter seems very cleanly laid out)

>the problem with targeting powerplant is that not only is it a lot of
>work, but the framework keeps changing, so its a never ending amount
>of work to do it right.  so unless there's a good resource commitment
>somewhere.. or maybe i'm just showing my bias against anything that
>isn't a cross-platform solution. :-)

That's why I'm trying to leverage off the new scriptability of the IDE so I
can automatically suck out all the useful stuff and generate the module
automagically, so when it changes, there is at most only a small amount of
work to do.  Besides, when a new version of Tk comes out, things have to be
fixed there as well (not that a new version of Tk comes out every three
monthes).  While crossplatform would be nice, it isn't at the top of my
list (i.e., I don't make my living off crossplatform stuff).

At any rate, I'm still trying to nail down the issues and approach before
determining if it is even feasible...

Glenn Andreas                                 Author of Macintosh games:
gandreas@skypoint.com, gandreas@aol.com             Theldrow 2.3
http://www.skypoint.com/members/gandreas            Blobbo 1.0.2
ftp://ftp.skypoint.com/pub/members/g/gandreas
I don't want a 12 lb. Nestles Crunch for 25 dollars.



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From jshell@inconnect.com  Tue Sep 24 23:49:44 1996
From: jshell@inconnect.com (jeffrey P. Shell)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 16:49:44 -0600
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] PowerPlant?
References: <v01540b00ae6cb3e78fb5@[10.0.2.15]>
Message-ID: <32486588.6FEA@inconnect.com>

I have heard that Tk 4.3 will support more native widgets, allowing for 
a more 'mac-like' feel while still maintaining cross-platform support.

WPY is tied in now with the MFC, which allow you to easily make 
windows-style apps.  What is MacPython tied in with?  MacApp?  is there 
any good modern set of foundation classes for the Mac similar to (but 
better than) MFC?  Or are we just wired into the basic Toolbox API?

I should finally be picking myself up a copy of CodeWarrior soon and I'm 
interested in toying with some MacOS stuff, namely OpenDoc and 
OSA/AppleScript.  What work has already been done in these areas?

I would love to have Python in an OpenDoc/Cyberdog container.

(note: it's been a while since i've programmed in C/C++, especially for 
a GUI, so don't quote me on any of this stuff.)  :) 
-- 
.jPS || jshell@inconnect.com || http://www.cynapses.com/ry/

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From jstrout@ucsd.edu  Tue Sep 24 23:51:46 1996
From: jstrout@ucsd.edu (Joseph Strout)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:51:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] PowerPlant?
In-Reply-To: <32486588.6FEA@inconnect.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.94.960924154951.11604B-100000@golgi>

On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, jeffrey P. Shell wrote:

> WPY is tied in now with the MFC, which allow you to easily make 
> windows-style apps.  What is MacPython tied in with?  MacApp? 

Nope, no class library at all.  Just the toolbox (and only parts of that).

> is there 
> any good modern set of foundation classes for the Mac similar to (but 
> better than) MFC?

Yes, there's PowerPlant, the Think Class Library, and a few smaller
frameworks like MacZoop.  I think PowerPlant is closest to MFC.

> I should finally be picking myself up a copy of CodeWarrior soon and I'm 
> interested in toying with some MacOS stuff, namely OpenDoc and 
> OSA/AppleScript.  What work has already been done in these areas?

I think you'll find some examples of this stuff on the CDs.

> I would love to have Python in an OpenDoc/Cyberdog container.

That would be great!

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout           Department of Neuroscience, UCSD   |
|    jstrout@ucsd.edu           http://www-acs.ucsd.edu/~jstrout/  |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'


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From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Wed Sep 25 16:22:26 1996
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:22:26 +0200
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] Windowing debugger availble (alpha-test version)
Message-ID: <9609251522.AA03952=jack@schelvis.cwi.nl>

I've put an alpha-release of my new debugger TWIT (The
Window-Independent Tracer) up for ftp in
<ftp://ftp.cwi.nl/pub/jack/python/mac>.

Features:
- graphical interface similar to MetroWerks debugger.
- stack, local and global variables, source code, breakpoints all visible
  on-screen.
- module browser allows you to look at any module and its variables
- AppleEvent interface to external source editor
- Just van Rossum's browser for complex data structures incorporated.
- Useable for live and post-mortem debugging.

Note the "alpha" bit: some things don't work yet (modifying variables,
PM-debugging is not complete, "about" box crashes the debugger) and
the "window-independence" bit of the name is a pure lie. Also,
debugging FrameWork-based programs is probably impossible.

Still, it is functional and I desparately need feedback on
functionality and interface, so please give it a go,
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


------- End of Forwarded Message




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From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Thu Sep 26 17:29:27 1996
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 18:29:27 +0200
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] Twit 0.2
Message-ID: <9609261629.AA12401=jack@schelvis.cwi.nl>

I found time to hack on twit some more today, so I've put version 0.2
in <ftp://ftp.cwi.nl/pub/jack/python/mac/twit.hqx>.

Changes:
- The interface has changed considerably (menus in stead of buttons)
- you can start a new debug session when the previous one is over
- double-clicking a python source while the debugger is running it
  will debug it (may also work with BBpy)
- debugging FrameWork (and possibly als Tk or other windowing)
  applications should work
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 

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From jeff@cynapses.com  Mon Sep 30 16:51:15 1996
From: jeff@cynapses.com (jeffrey P. Shell)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 09:51:15 -0600
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] Mac ftplib problems
References: <324FD270.1305@cynapses.com>
Message-ID: <324FEC73.3FC2@cynapses.com>

i've experienced a lot of problems with 'ftplib' on MacPython..  i had 
these errors both in 1.3.3 and 1.4b3.  Every command i execute just 
sends back a big traceback.  It happens both on trying to get in 
anonymous (since there's no environment variables that i know of to sub 
in for the 'user@hostname' password, i thought that might be raising an 
error), but even when trying to get into my local ISP, i get odd errors 
and can't move around:

> ftp.login('jshell','[password]')
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "Hard Disk:Desktop Folder:Documents:jeff's Ÿ:Python 1.4b3 CFM68K:Lib:ftplib.py", line 296, in login
>     resp = self.sendcmd('USER ' + user)
>   File "Hard Disk:Desktop Folder:Documents:jeff's Ÿ:Python 1.4b3 CFM68K:Lib:ftplib.py", line 222, in sendcmd
>     return self.getresp()
>   File "Hard Disk:Desktop Folder:Documents:jeff's Ÿ:Python 1.4b3 CFM68K:Lib:ftplib.py", line 198, in getresp
>     raise error_proto, resp
> 331 Password required for jshell.

this works just fine on the sunOS.
-- 
.jPS || jeff@cynapses.com || http://www.cynapses.com/ry/

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From Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl  Mon Sep 30 21:14:41 1996
From: Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:14:41 +0200
Subject: [PYTHONMAC-SIG] Mac ftplib problems
In-Reply-To: Message by "jeffrey P. Shell" <jeff@cynapses.com> ,
 Mon, 30 Sep 1996 09:51:15 -0600 , <324FEC73.3FC2@cynapses.com>
Message-ID: <9609302014.AA22687=jack@schelvis.cwi.nl>


Recently, "jeffrey P. Shell" <jeff@cynapses.com> said:
> i've experienced a lot of problems with 'ftplib' on MacPython..  i had=20
> these errors both in 1.3.3 and 1.4b3.  Every command i execute just=20
> sends back a big traceback.  It happens both on trying to get in=20
> anonymous (since there's no environment variables that i know of to sub=20
> in for the 'user@hostname' password, i thought that might be raising an=20
> error), but even when trying to get into my local ISP, i get odd errors=20
> and can't move around:

This is very easy to fix: change the two "makefile('r')" calls in
ftplib.py to "makefile('rb')". <shameless-plug>It took me about 20
seconds to find out what the problem was using twit</shameless-plug> :-)

The strange thing is that I made this same fix a long time ago. It
must have gotten lost somewhere along the way...
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 

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