From lac at openend.se Thu Oct 8 11:56:25 2015 From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 11:56:25 +0200 Subject: [python-win32] Is there a _simple_ way to find out what version of Windows you are running? Message-ID: <201510080956.t989uP8a017678@fido.openend.se> Hi, I am one of the python.org webmasters. We get people -- often children who want to install python on their computers but don't know what OS they are running. Nearly all of these people are running Windows, though I did get somebody who was running FreeBSD the other day. :) Microsoft tells you to do this: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/which-operating-system This is asking an awful lot of the people who are mailing webmaster and who don't know what OS they are running. It is futile to tell these people methods to find out what OS version they are running that vary depending on what OS you have, so I am looking for a thing you can do on any version of windows which will reliably spit out the correct answer. something along the lines of the windows XP discovery: Click the Start button, click Run, type winver, and then press Enter. looks good. Perhaps it has to be: open a command window (but do you do the same thing to do that on all windows versions?) and type winver Now that page, of course, supposedly tells you what version you are running if you connect to it over the internet with the machine you want to test. But not having a windows system or 12 to test with, I am not sure what the results are, and whether that will in itself be good enough for people who just want to learn how to get Python. thanks very much, Laura From mail at timgolden.me.uk Thu Oct 8 14:37:32 2015 From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 13:37:32 +0100 Subject: [python-win32] Is there a _simple_ way to find out what version of Windows you are running? In-Reply-To: <201510080956.t989uP8a017678@fido.openend.se> References: <201510080956.t989uP8a017678@fido.openend.se> Message-ID: <5616638C.8020907@timgolden.me.uk> On 08/10/2015 10:56, Laura Creighton wrote: > Hi, I am one of the python.org webmasters. We get people -- often children > who want to install python on their computers but don't know what OS they > are running. Nearly all of these people are running Windows, though I > did get somebody who was running FreeBSD the other day. :) > > Microsoft tells you to do this: > http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/which-operating-system > > This is asking an awful lot of the people who are mailing webmaster > and who don't know what OS they are running. It is futile to tell > these people methods to find out what OS version they are running that vary > depending on what OS you have, so I am looking for a thing you can do on > any version of windows which will reliably spit out the correct > answer. Windows + Pause/Break [*] will produce the system info window showing the Windows version, including Service Pack, and bit-ness, for any recent version of Windows. It does look slightly different on each version, but the Version string/name is always at the top in a section called something like "Windows edition". I'll see if I can get screenshots up somewhere. I've just confirmed this on: WinXP Win 7 Win 8.1 Server 2003 Server 2008 R2 Server 2012 R2 TJG [*] That's using the Windows key like a shift and tapping the key usually labelled Pause/Break. You can get to this window in other ways, but those *do* vary from system to system, while the keyboard shortcut works everywhere AFAIK. From bhood2 at comcast.net Thu Oct 8 15:13:29 2015 From: bhood2 at comcast.net (Bob Hood) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 07:13:29 -0600 Subject: [python-win32] Is there a _simple_ way to find out what version of Windows you are running? In-Reply-To: <201510080956.t989uP8a017678@fido.openend.se> References: <201510080956.t989uP8a017678@fido.openend.se> Message-ID: <56166BF9.3030209@comcast.net> On 10/8/2015 3:56 AM, Laura Creighton wrote: > Hi, I am one of the python.org webmasters. We get people -- often children > who want to install python on their computers but don't know what OS they > are running. Nearly all of these people are running Windows, though I > did get somebody who was running FreeBSD the other day. :) > > Microsoft tells you to do this: > http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/which-operating-system > > This is asking an awful lot of the people who are mailing webmaster > and who don't know what OS they are running. It is futile to tell > these people methods to find out what OS version they are running that vary > depending on what OS you have, so I am looking for a thing you can do on > any version of windows which will reliably spit out the correct > answer. > > something along the lines of the windows XP discovery: > > Click the Start button, click Run, type winver, and then press Enter. You can reduce it be at least one step: Windows Key + R, type winver, press Enter. I tested this with Windows XP, Windows 7, Windows 8 and Windows 10. I don't have Vista handy, but I assume it will work there as well. From lac at openend.se Thu Oct 8 15:22:53 2015 From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 15:22:53 +0200 Subject: [python-win32] Is there a _simple_ way to find out what version of Windows you are running? In-Reply-To: <5616638C.8020907@timgolden.me.uk> References: <201510080956.t989uP8a017678@fido.openend.se> <5616638C.8020907@timgolden.me.uk> Message-ID: <201510081322.t98DMrIp032216@fido.openend.se> In a message of Thu, 08 Oct 2015 13:37:32 +0100, Tim Golden writes: >Windows + Pause/Break [*] will produce the system info window showing >the Windows version, including Service Pack, and bit-ness, for any >recent version of Windows. > >It does look slightly different on each version, but the Version >string/name is always at the top in a section called something like >"Windows edition". I'll see if I can get screenshots up somewhere. > >I've just confirmed this on: > >WinXP >Win 7 >Win 8.1 >Server 2003 >Server 2008 R2 >Server 2012 R2 > >TJG > >[*] That's using the Windows key like a shift and tapping the key >usually labelled Pause/Break. You can get to this window in other ways, >but those *do* vary from system to system, while the keyboard shortcut >works everywhere AFAIK. Wonderful. Now if any Vista people and RT people can confirm it works for them too, I think I will have the whole set. except CE? Does that run anywhere except phones/tablets? Laura From mail at timgolden.me.uk Thu Oct 8 15:23:00 2015 From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 14:23:00 +0100 Subject: [python-win32] Is there a _simple_ way to find out what version of Windows you are running? In-Reply-To: <5616638C.8020907@timgolden.me.uk> References: <201510080956.t989uP8a017678@fido.openend.se> <5616638C.8020907@timgolden.me.uk> Message-ID: <56166E34.8040502@timgolden.me.uk> On 08/10/2015 13:37, Tim Golden wrote: > On 08/10/2015 10:56, Laura Creighton wrote: >> Hi, I am one of the python.org webmasters. We get people -- often children >> who want to install python on their computers but don't know what OS they >> are running. Nearly all of these people are running Windows, though I >> did get somebody who was running FreeBSD the other day. :) >> >> Microsoft tells you to do this: >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/which-operating-system >> >> This is asking an awful lot of the people who are mailing webmaster >> and who don't know what OS they are running. It is futile to tell >> these people methods to find out what OS version they are running that vary >> depending on what OS you have, so I am looking for a thing you can do on >> any version of windows which will reliably spit out the correct >> answer. > > Windows + Pause/Break [*] will produce the system info window showing > the Windows version, including Service Pack, and bit-ness, for any > recent version of Windows. > > It does look slightly different on each version, but the Version > string/name is always at the top in a section called something like > "Windows edition". I'll see if I can get screenshots up somewhere. To follow up, I've dropped a Q&D blog post here: http://ramblings.timgolden.me.uk/2015/10/08/what-windows-version-am-i-running/ with instructions on how to bring the window up, plus examples from every system I can get my hands on, which doesn't include Vista or 10, but I assume Vista looks like 7 and 10 looks like 8. Graham Bloice pointed out that the Pause|Break key isn't present on newer, laptop/tablet keyboards, so I've added the suggestion of right-clicking on "My Computer". I've also included the winver.exe suggestion and msinfo32.exe, both of which give most of the information. AFAICT, winver.exe doesn't tell you whether you're running 32 or 64/bit. Hopefully that will help the triage at any rate. TJG From p.asselman at mailbox.org Thu Oct 8 15:52:11 2015 From: p.asselman at mailbox.org (Patrick Asselman) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 15:52:11 +0200 Subject: [python-win32] Is there a _simple_ way to find out what version of Windows you are running? In-Reply-To: <201510080956.t989uP8a017678@fido.openend.se> References: <201510080956.t989uP8a017678@fido.openend.se> Message-ID: <7cf97021300bebfccf08bf3ffebeab14@pro.dohd.org> On 2015-10-08 11:56, Laura Creighton wrote: > Hi, I am one of the python.org webmasters. We get people -- often > children > who want to install python on their computers but don't know what OS > they > are running. Nearly all of these people are running Windows, though I > did get somebody who was running FreeBSD the other day. :) > > Microsoft tells you to do this: > http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/which-operating-system Clicking on a link is too much to ask? Or is the URL too long? In that case I would suggest to use http://whatsmyos.com/ > This is asking an awful lot of the people who are mailing webmaster > and who don't know what OS they are running. It is futile to tell > these people methods to find out what OS version they are running that > vary > depending on what OS you have, so I am looking for a thing you can do > on > any version of windows which will reliably spit out the correct > answer. > > something along the lines of the windows XP discovery: > > Click the Start button, click Run, type winver, and then press > Enter. > > looks good. Perhaps it has to be: > open a command window (but do you do the same thing to do that on all > windows versions?) and type winver > > Now that page, of course, supposedly tells you what version you are > running if you connect to it over the internet with the machine you > want to test. But not having a windows system or 12 to test with, > I am not sure what the results are, and whether that will in itself > be good enough for people who just want to learn how to get Python. You can check how well it works by using a "user agent switcher" plugin for your browser. Best regards, Patrick From lac at openend.se Thu Oct 8 15:59:13 2015 From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 15:59:13 +0200 Subject: [python-win32] Is there a _simple_ way to find out what version of Windows you are running? In-Reply-To: <7cf97021300bebfccf08bf3ffebeab14@pro.dohd.org> References: <201510080956.t989uP8a017678@fido.openend.se> <7cf97021300bebfccf08bf3ffebeab14@pro.dohd.org> Message-ID: <201510081359.t98DxDr6002567@fido.openend.se> In a message of Thu, 08 Oct 2015 15:52:11 +0200, Patrick Asselman writes: >> Microsoft tells you to do this: >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/which-operating-system > >Clicking on a link is too much to ask? Or is the URL too long? >In that case I would suggest to use http://whatsmyos.com/ clicking on the link wasn't the problem. The problem was with the content -- Microsoft tells you how to find out what OS version you have with a different procedure based on what OS version you have. Which, of course, if you already knew the answer to, you wouldn't need to ask .. Laura From p.asselman at mailbox.org Thu Oct 8 16:03:23 2015 From: p.asselman at mailbox.org (Patrick Asselman) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 16:03:23 +0200 Subject: [python-win32] Is there a _simple_ way to find out what version of Windows you are running? In-Reply-To: <201510081359.t98DxDr6002567@fido.openend.se> References: <201510080956.t989uP8a017678@fido.openend.se> <7cf97021300bebfccf08bf3ffebeab14@pro.dohd.org> <201510081359.t98DxDr6002567@fido.openend.se> Message-ID: <46a79d14b7ac6e93aa514cce3adb0233@pro.dohd.org> On 2015-10-08 15:59, Laura Creighton wrote: > In a message of Thu, 08 Oct 2015 15:52:11 +0200, Patrick Asselman > writes: >>> Microsoft tells you to do this: >>> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/which-operating-system >> >> Clicking on a link is too much to ask? Or is the URL too long? >> In that case I would suggest to use http://whatsmyos.com/ > > clicking on the link wasn't the problem. The problem was with > the content -- Microsoft tells you how to find out what OS version > you have with a different procedure based on what OS version you > have. Which, of course, if you already knew the answer to, you > wouldn't need to ask .. That is peculiar... on my screen, when I click on that link, I read "This PC is running: Windows 7" That's why I was wondering what is so difficult about it... Best regards, Patrick From lac at openend.se Thu Oct 8 16:26:16 2015 From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 16:26:16 +0200 Subject: [python-win32] Is there a _simple_ way to find out what version of Windows you are running? In-Reply-To: <46a79d14b7ac6e93aa514cce3adb0233@pro.dohd.org> References: <201510080956.t989uP8a017678@fido.openend.se> <7cf97021300bebfccf08bf3ffebeab14@pro.dohd.org> <201510081359.t98DxDr6002567@fido.openend.se> <46a79d14b7ac6e93aa514cce3adb0233@pro.dohd.org> Message-ID: <201510081426.t98EQGuG004663@fido.openend.se> In a message of Thu, 08 Oct 2015 16:03:23 +0200, Patrick Asselman writes: >On 2015-10-08 15:59, Laura Creighton wrote: >> In a message of Thu, 08 Oct 2015 15:52:11 +0200, Patrick Asselman >> writes: >>>> Microsoft tells you to do this: >>>> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/which-operating-system >>> >>> Clicking on a link is too much to ask? Or is the URL too long? >>> In that case I would suggest to use http://whatsmyos.com/ >> >> clicking on the link wasn't the problem. The problem was with >> the content -- Microsoft tells you how to find out what OS version >> you have with a different procedure based on what OS version you >> have. Which, of course, if you already knew the answer to, you >> wouldn't need to ask .. > >That is peculiar... on my screen, when I click on that link, I read > >"This PC is running: Windows 7" > >That's why I was wondering what is so difficult about it... > > >Best regards, >Patrick I know there are some windows users whom I have sent there, and who have sent me screenshots where they were being told: "This device isn't running a Windows operating system", which was incorrect. It may be due to private browsing, or their language choices, or, actually I don't know what all can cause this. Laura From timr at probo.com Thu Oct 8 20:48:17 2015 From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 11:48:17 -0700 Subject: [python-win32] Is there a _simple_ way to find out what version of Windows you are running? In-Reply-To: <201510081426.t98EQGuG004663@fido.openend.se> References: <201510080956.t989uP8a017678@fido.openend.se> <7cf97021300bebfccf08bf3ffebeab14@pro.dohd.org> <201510081359.t98DxDr6002567@fido.openend.se> <46a79d14b7ac6e93aa514cce3adb0233@pro.dohd.org> <201510081426.t98EQGuG004663@fido.openend.se> Message-ID: <5616BA71.6000502@probo.com> Laura Creighton wrote: > I know there are some windows users whom I have sent there, and who have > sent me screenshots where they were being told: > "This device isn't running a Windows operating system", which > was incorrect. It may be due to private browsing, or their > language choices, or, actually I don't know what all can cause this. It's not hard to understand. The web server doesn't have access to your system. It guesses that information based on the HTTP headers that were sent by the browser. There is no standard for how the browser identification line is formatted, nor indeed does the standard require one be present at all. Some browsers are too clever, some intentionally lie, some don't include it. -- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc. From timr at probo.com Thu Oct 8 21:00:43 2015 From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 12:00:43 -0700 Subject: [python-win32] Is there a _simple_ way to find out what version of Windows you are running? In-Reply-To: <201510081322.t98DMrIp032216@fido.openend.se> References: <201510080956.t989uP8a017678@fido.openend.se> <5616638C.8020907@timgolden.me.uk> <201510081322.t98DMrIp032216@fido.openend.se> Message-ID: <5616BD5B.3060704@probo.com> Laura Creighton wrote: > Wonderful. Now if any Vista people and RT people can confirm it works > for them too, I think I will have the whole set. The RT user experience is identical to Windows 8. It works there. The Vista start button is the same as Windows 7. Server 2008 is the same as Vista, Server 2008R2 is the same as Windows 7, Server 2012 is the same as Windows 8, Server 2012R2 is the same as Windows 8.1. Think you have them all covered. > except CE? Does that run anywhere except phones/tablets? It runs on a lot of weird embedded devices, but the user experience is not as consistent as the desktop version. Too many manufacturer tweaks. Plus, anyone who is running Python on a CE device knows what they are doing and will be able to answer the question without your help. -- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc. From lac at openend.se Thu Oct 8 21:05:26 2015 From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 21:05:26 +0200 Subject: [python-win32] Is there a _simple_ way to find out what version of Windows you are running? In-Reply-To: <5616BD5B.3060704@probo.com> References: <201510080956.t989uP8a017678@fido.openend.se> <5616638C.8020907@timgolden.me.uk> <201510081322.t98DMrIp032216@fido.openend.se> <5616BD5B.3060704@probo.com> Message-ID: <201510081905.t98J5QIU024228@fido.openend.se> In a message of Thu, 08 Oct 2015 12:00:43 -0700, Tim Roberts writes: >Laura Creighton wrote: >> Wonderful. Now if any Vista people and RT people can confirm it works >> for them too, I think I will have the whole set. > >The RT user experience is identical to Windows 8. It works there. > >The Vista start button is the same as Windows 7. > >Server 2008 is the same as Vista, Server 2008R2 is the same as Windows >7, Server 2012 is the same as Windows 8, Server 2012R2 is the same as >Windows 8.1. Think you have them all covered. > > >> except CE? Does that run anywhere except phones/tablets? > >It runs on a lot of weird embedded devices, but the user experience is >not as consistent as the desktop version. Too many manufacturer >tweaks. Plus, anyone who is running Python on a CE device knows what >they are doing and will be able to answer the question without your help. > >-- >Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com >Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc. Thank you very, very much. Laura From rodperson at rodperson.com Thu Oct 15 03:31:38 2015 From: rodperson at rodperson.com (rodperson at rodperson.com) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 18:31:38 -0700 Subject: [python-win32] Fw: new message Message-ID: <000039d3b635$a874f7f7$8be5bf76$@rodperson.com> Hello! New message, please read rodperson at rodperson.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jplynch at crosslink.net Sun Oct 25 18:40:43 2015 From: jplynch at crosslink.net (JPL) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 18:40:43 -0400 Subject: [python-win32] Windows 10 Message-ID: <31710E054A2F4A388514B348710AF224@jpl3PC> Hi, Newbie here, trying to determine a way ahead to get started with Python. My computer (Dell laptop) runs Windows 10. Is there anything that would keep me from using Python or something I should be aware of? Thnx! ___________________________________________________ My email server has been unreliable lately. If you haven't heard from me and are expecting a reply, try my other email: jplynch3 at gmail.com From lac at openend.se Sun Oct 25 19:07:57 2015 From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 00:07:57 +0100 Subject: [python-win32] Windows 10 In-Reply-To: <31710E054A2F4A388514B348710AF224@jpl3PC> References: <31710E054A2F4A388514B348710AF224@jpl3PC> Message-ID: <201510252307.t9PN7v37000719@fido.openend.se> In a message of Sun, 25 Oct 2015 18:40:43 -0400, "JPL" writes: >Hi, > Newbie here, trying to determine a way ahead to get started with Python. >My computer (Dell laptop) runs Windows 10. Is there anything that would >keep me from using Python or something I should be aware of? > Thnx! >___________________________________________________ >My email server has been unreliable lately. If you haven't heard from >me and are expecting a reply, try my other >email: jplynch3 at gmail.com Hi JPL: Laura who was webmaster here! You didn't ask me _that_ (grin). I would have told you no, nope, not only does Python work with windows 10, but there is a special Microsoft group set up to ensure that! :) You just said you wanted a place to discuss python on windows 10! so I send you here. :) ---------- Hi python-win32. Can I suggest a mailing list name change to reflect 64 bit windows? python-windows would be my suggestion .... Just great to have you all back after the recent hard disk crash, Laura From jplynch at crosslink.net Sun Oct 25 19:13:49 2015 From: jplynch at crosslink.net (JPL) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 19:13:49 -0400 Subject: [python-win32] Windows 10 In-Reply-To: <201510252307.t9PN7v37000719@fido.openend.se> References: <31710E054A2F4A388514B348710AF224@jpl3PC> <201510252307.t9PN7v37000719@fido.openend.se> Message-ID: <325106678FDA479C8A5139701FA7399A@jpl3PC> ok, great, thanks Laura. Learning my way around. I guess there are two "challenges", running Python on Windows 10 and thanks for the pointer to that specific Microsoft group. And then Python itself, which I guess is the focus of this group. So we're all good! Thanks tons for your help. v/s, Jim (giniajim) -----Original Message----- From: Laura Creighton Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 7:07 PM To: JPL Cc: Python email-list ; lac at openend.se Subject: Re: [python-win32] Windows 10 In a message of Sun, 25 Oct 2015 18:40:43 -0400, "JPL" writes: >Hi, > Newbie here, trying to determine a way ahead to get started with Python. >My computer (Dell laptop) runs Windows 10. Is there anything that would >keep me from using Python or something I should be aware of? > Thnx! >___________________________________________________ >My email server has been unreliable lately. If you haven't heard from >me and are expecting a reply, try my other >email: jplynch3 at gmail.com Hi JPL: Laura who was webmaster here! You didn't ask me _that_ (grin). I would have told you no, nope, not only does Python work with windows 10, but there is a special Microsoft group set up to ensure that! :) You just said you wanted a place to discuss python on windows 10! so I send you here. :) ---------- Hi python-win32. Can I suggest a mailing list name change to reflect 64 bit windows? python-windows would be my suggestion .... Just great to have you all back after the recent hard disk crash, Laura From eryksun at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 02:04:53 2015 From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryksun) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 01:04:53 -0500 Subject: [python-win32] Windows 10 In-Reply-To: <201510252307.t9PN7v37000719@fido.openend.se> References: <31710E054A2F4A388514B348710AF224@jpl3PC> <201510252307.t9PN7v37000719@fido.openend.se> Message-ID: On 10/25/15, Laura Creighton wrote: > > Can I suggest a mailing list name change to reflect 64 bit windows? > python-windows would be my suggestion .... I agree. This list is about programming in Python on Windows, so python-windows is an obvious name and one that a novice programmer can easily recognize. I think the name has yet to change because a lot of programmers still refer to the Windows API as "Win32" instead of "WinAPI". Also, the system directory on 64-bit Windows is still called "System32", and many of the more well-known system DLLs still have "32" in the name, such as the following: shell32, ole32, kernel32, crypt32, opengl32, user32, advapi32, win32spl, comctl32, comdlg32, gdi32, rasapi32, w32time, wldap32, ws2_32, tapi32, cfgmgr32, imm32, msvfw32, clfsw32, netapi32, wtsapi32, mssign32, secur32, riched32 From zturner at google.com Mon Oct 26 12:44:27 2015 From: zturner at google.com (Zachary Turner) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 16:44:27 +0000 Subject: [python-win32] Windows 10 In-Reply-To: References: <31710E054A2F4A388514B348710AF224@jpl3PC> <201510252307.t9PN7v37000719@fido.openend.se> Message-ID: It's not that "many programmers still refer to Windows API as Win32", it's that the Windows API itself has decided that that is what it is called. When you #define _WIN32 in a C or C++ program using the Windows API, it does not mean "this is a 32-bit app", it means "I'm using the Windows API". That's why you still define this even in 64-bit builds, for example, where you #define both _WIN32 and _WIN64. You're not wrong, but it's just that the problem goes deeper than what you make it sound :) The Windows API *is* the Win32 API and vice versa. They are synonyms. On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 11:24 PM eryksun wrote: > On 10/25/15, Laura Creighton wrote: > > > > Can I suggest a mailing list name change to reflect 64 bit windows? > > python-windows would be my suggestion .... > > I agree. This list is about programming in Python on Windows, so > python-windows is an obvious name and one that a novice programmer can > easily recognize. > > I think the name has yet to change because a lot of programmers still > refer to the Windows API as "Win32" instead of "WinAPI". Also, the > system directory on 64-bit Windows is still called "System32", and > many of the more well-known system DLLs still have "32" in the name, > such as the following: > > shell32, ole32, kernel32, crypt32, opengl32, > user32, advapi32, win32spl, comctl32, comdlg32, > gdi32, rasapi32, w32time, wldap32, ws2_32, > tapi32, cfgmgr32, imm32, msvfw32, clfsw32, > netapi32, wtsapi32, mssign32, secur32, riched32 > _______________________________________________ > python-win32 mailing list > python-win32 at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-win32 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eryksun at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 17:24:14 2015 From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryksun) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 16:24:14 -0500 Subject: [python-win32] Windows 10 In-Reply-To: References: <31710E054A2F4A388514B348710AF224@jpl3PC> <201510252307.t9PN7v37000719@fido.openend.se> Message-ID: On 10/26/15, Zachary Turner wrote: > > It's not that "many programmers still refer to Windows API as Win32", it's > that the Windows API itself has decided that that is what it is called. > When you #define _WIN32 in a C or C++ program using the Windows API, it > does not mean "this is a 32-bit app", it means "I'm using the Windows > API". That's why you still define this even in 64-bit builds, for example, > where you #define both _WIN32 and _WIN64. To some extent the _WIN32 macro is a deeper explanation, as in going deeper into the API header files, but it's also a symptom of the same short-sighted naming scheme that plagues the name of the system directory and DLL names. The Portable Systems Group (NT's original development team) should have put more planning into this, but ISTM updating 16-bit Windows to Win32 was a rush job at the middle stages of NT development. It was originally supposed to be "NT OS/2" instead of "Windows NT", and they had to switch direction halfway through development. To clarify, Win32 really is not the name of the API. Microsoft changed the name to "Windows API" [1]: Note that [the Windows API] was formerly called the Win32 API. The name Windows API more accurately reflects its roots in 16-bit Windows and its support on 64-bit Windows. In Microsoft's technical literature sometimes Win32 is used to refer exclusively to 32-bit Windows, and sometimes it's referring to the API in general. [1]: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff818516 From skippy.hammond at gmail.com Wed Oct 28 02:59:05 2015 From: skippy.hammond at gmail.com (Mark Hammond) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 17:59:05 +1100 Subject: [python-win32] Windows 10 In-Reply-To: <201510252307.t9PN7v37000719@fido.openend.se> References: <31710E054A2F4A388514B348710AF224@jpl3PC> <201510252307.t9PN7v37000719@fido.openend.se> Message-ID: <56307239.1090900@gmail.com> On 26/10/2015 10:07 AM, Laura Creighton wrote: > Can I suggest a mailing list name change to reflect 64 bit windows? > > python-windows would be my suggestion .... python-windows would be a better name, but I don't think it is worth the disruption of changing the email address of the list. I think the best we can do now is to ensure the summary for the list make things clear (which I think it does - "32" doesn't get mentioned) Mark From lac at openend.se Wed Oct 28 05:45:36 2015 From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 10:45:36 +0100 Subject: [python-win32] Windows 10 In-Reply-To: <56307239.1090900@gmail.com> References: <31710E054A2F4A388514B348710AF224@jpl3PC> <201510252307.t9PN7v37000719@fido.openend.se> <56307239.1090900@gmail.com> Message-ID: <201510280945.t9S9jaSO032164@fido.openend.se> In a message of Wed, 28 Oct 2015 17:59:05 +1100, Mark Hammond writes: >On 26/10/2015 10:07 AM, Laura Creighton wrote: >> Can I suggest a mailing list name change to reflect 64 bit windows? >> >> python-windows would be my suggestion .... > >python-windows would be a better name, but I don't think it is worth the >disruption of changing the email address of the list. I think the best >we can do now is to ensure the summary for the list make things clear >(which I think it does - "32" doesn't get mentioned) > >Mark https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo still says: python-win32 Python on win32 Can you Mark -- or anybody else who has mailman editing rights to this list go to the General Options page and change the line for _Description_ to be something more like "Discussion group for Python on ALL versions of Windows, not just win32" That should make the list easier for people to find. Thank you very much. Laura From mail at timgolden.me.uk Wed Oct 28 05:55:07 2015 From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 09:55:07 +0000 Subject: [python-win32] Windows 10 In-Reply-To: <201510280945.t9S9jaSO032164@fido.openend.se> References: <31710E054A2F4A388514B348710AF224@jpl3PC> <201510252307.t9PN7v37000719@fido.openend.se> <56307239.1090900@gmail.com> <201510280945.t9S9jaSO032164@fido.openend.se> Message-ID: <56309B7B.2050606@timgolden.me.uk> On 28/10/2015 09:45, Laura Creighton wrote: > In a message of Wed, 28 Oct 2015 17:59:05 +1100, Mark Hammond writes: >> On 26/10/2015 10:07 AM, Laura Creighton wrote: >>> Can I suggest a mailing list name change to reflect 64 bit windows? >>> >>> python-windows would be my suggestion .... >> >> python-windows would be a better name, but I don't think it is worth the >> disruption of changing the email address of the list. I think the best >> we can do now is to ensure the summary for the list make things clear >> (which I think it does - "32" doesn't get mentioned) >> >> Mark > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo > still says: > python-win32 Python on win32 > > Can you Mark -- or anybody else who has mailman editing rights to > this list go to the General Options page and change the line for > _Description_ to be something more like "Discussion group for Python on ALL versions of Windows, not just win32" > > That should make the list easier for people to find. I've just made the (I believe) uncontroversial change to: "Python on Windows" for the description. If Mark or anyone wants to extend it further, please go ahead. I don't believe that wording around "all versions of .. not only" adds anything. Windows is Windows. TJG From lac at openend.se Wed Oct 28 06:20:25 2015 From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 11:20:25 +0100 Subject: [python-win32] Windows 10 In-Reply-To: <56309B7B.2050606@timgolden.me.uk> References: <31710E054A2F4A388514B348710AF224@jpl3PC> <201510252307.t9PN7v37000719@fido.openend.se> <56307239.1090900@gmail.com> <201510280945.t9S9jaSO032164@fido.openend.se> <56309B7B.2050606@timgolden.me.uk> Message-ID: <201510281020.t9SAKPwM002822@fido.openend.se> In a message of Wed, 28 Oct 2015 09:55:07 +0000, Tim Golden writes: >I've just made the (I believe) uncontroversial change to: "Python on >Windows" for the description. If Mark or anyone wants to extend it >further, please go ahead. I don't believe that wording around "all >versions of .. not only" adds anything. Windows is Windows. > >TJG The only reason you would need 'not only 32' is because of the name of the list. And, Tim, _you_ are a webmaster. How much mail do we get saying 'does this installer work on my windows 64 system'? I fear knowing that 'Windows is Windows' is not general knowledge. Laura From mail at timgolden.me.uk Wed Oct 28 06:49:58 2015 From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 10:49:58 +0000 Subject: [python-win32] Windows 10 In-Reply-To: <201510281020.t9SAKPwM002822@fido.openend.se> References: <31710E054A2F4A388514B348710AF224@jpl3PC> <201510252307.t9PN7v37000719@fido.openend.se> <56307239.1090900@gmail.com> <201510280945.t9S9jaSO032164@fido.openend.se> <56309B7B.2050606@timgolden.me.uk> <201510281020.t9SAKPwM002822@fido.openend.se> Message-ID: <5630A856.3000305@timgolden.me.uk> On 28/10/2015 10:20, Laura Creighton wrote: > In a message of Wed, 28 Oct 2015 09:55:07 +0000, Tim Golden writes: >> I've just made the (I believe) uncontroversial change to: "Python on >> Windows" for the description. If Mark or anyone wants to extend it >> further, please go ahead. I don't believe that wording around "all >> versions of .. not only" adds anything. Windows is Windows. >> >> TJG > > The only reason you would need 'not only 32' is because of the name > of the list. And, Tim, _you_ are a webmaster. How much mail do we get > saying 'does this installer work on my windows 64 system'? I fear > knowing that 'Windows is Windows' is not general knowledge. I've updated the brief description and the longer blurb to include the phrase "32-bit and 64-bit". TJG