From funthyme at gmail.com  Wed Sep  4 14:17:08 2013
From: funthyme at gmail.com (John Pinner)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 13:17:08 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] PyCon UK Mugs
Message-ID: <CAB-vKOS8fx2jMkOEgbzsOkPPY+TVTLSPL+NQKgnRtpgCZ0C0bQ@mail.gmail.com>

If you broke your last year's PyCon UK mug, you can order a
replacement through the wiki http://pyconuk.net and pick it up at this
year's conf.

Best wishes,

John
--

From ntoll at ntoll.org  Thu Sep  5 08:58:25 2013
From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 07:58:25 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] PyconUK 2013 Education track
Message-ID: <52282B91.6040906@ntoll.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Folks,

Know any teachers..? Have you got kids..? Attending PyconUK at the end
of this month..?

Yup, after the success of last year's education track we're running a
new and improved version this year. With five invited speakers,
workshops and a "Raspberry Jam" (for kids) on the Sunday we're making
sure PyconUK is top-of-the-class when it comes to engaging with the
Pythonistas of tomorrow.

Alan O'Donohoe has written up a blog post explaining what we have
planned here:

https://teachcomputing.wordpress.com/2013/09/05/teachers-welcome-at-pyconuk-2013/

If you know a teacher, tell 'em to sign up. If you have kids, bring
them along on Sunday (where they can, among other things, learn to
program the game-du-jour "Minecraft" with Python).

Thanks to Bank of America for their sponsorship of the education track.

Spread the word, tell your friends and bring your kids!

It'll be awesome.

Nicholas.
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From tartley at tartley.com  Mon Sep  9 15:18:10 2013
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 14:18:10 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
Message-ID: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>

A small Python project of mine is apparently being included in Chromium, 
because I've had a bug report from them that my source files (plural) 
fail their build-time license checker.

They'd like me to include a license and copyright info in every source 
file (including empty __init__.py files).

I've responded that I don't want to be unhelpful, but I don't believe in 
putting duplicate license and copyright info in every source code file. 
To my mind, it belongs in a single central place, i.e. the project 
LICENSE file.

Am I being unreasonable and/or daft?

     Jonathan

-- 
Jonathan Hartley    tartley at tartley.com    http://tartley.com
Made of meat.       +44 7737 062 225       twitter/skype: tartley


From andy at reportlab.com  Mon Sep  9 15:24:01 2013
From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 14:24:01 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
Message-ID: <CABjtApuAf=0jWp-+5MsmQMXKJxTSwQeQaRFgfdkX13kS3k0VUA@mail.gmail.com>

On 9 September 2013 14:18, Jonathan Hartley <tartley at tartley.com> wrote:
> They'd like me to include a license and copyright info in every source file
> (including empty __init__.py files).

I have had this with big companies before, long ago.  It may actually
be sufficient to have one line saying something like...

"Copyright Jonathan Hartley 2013.  MIT-style license; see
mypackage/LICENSE.TXT for details"

- Andy

From martin.hellwig at gmail.com  Mon Sep  9 15:30:09 2013
From: martin.hellwig at gmail.com (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 14:30:09 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <CABjtApuAf=0jWp-+5MsmQMXKJxTSwQeQaRFgfdkX13kS3k0VUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <CABjtApuAf=0jWp-+5MsmQMXKJxTSwQeQaRFgfdkX13kS3k0VUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMWL9gUCE99=WN7=-L5XdSNinnA-t_iRzw5PGyXsQrFucjgYPg@mail.gmail.com>

I concur, you do not have to put the full license text in it, a reference
to it is fine.
The logic behind that request is that some files may be seen out of context
of the project (as there is no reference), without having a license
attached the file can be legally misrepresented as being public domain.


So yes a one liner as Andy has given is all you need, by having your name
and year, any reference can be then looked up by anybody who is interested.


On 9 September 2013 14:24, Andy Robinson <andy at reportlab.com> wrote:

> On 9 September 2013 14:18, Jonathan Hartley <tartley at tartley.com> wrote:
> > They'd like me to include a license and copyright info in every source
> file
> > (including empty __init__.py files).
>
> I have had this with big companies before, long ago.  It may actually
> be sufficient to have one line saying something like...
>
> "Copyright Jonathan Hartley 2013.  MIT-style license; see
> mypackage/LICENSE.TXT for details"
>
> - Andy
> _______________________________________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>
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From lursty at gmail.com  Mon Sep  9 15:30:35 2013
From: lursty at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gilberto_Gon=E7alves?=)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 14:30:35 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
Message-ID: <CAMeRPG8CiECmbwFjeAA8+c0koBErw4VsFJQ2A2TRQhtOx7d6oA@mail.gmail.com>

I understand your concern since it doesn't look very DRY to put the license
in all the source files but I believe
that putting at least a header in each of the files as well as a full
License file in the root of your project is the
best way to do it.

Check this:
http://www.oss-watch.ac.uk/resources/opensourceyourcode#applying-the-licence

Cheers,
Gil


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Jonathan Hartley <tartley at tartley.com>wrote:

> A small Python project of mine is apparently being included in Chromium,
> because I've had a bug report from them that my source files (plural) fail
> their build-time license checker.
>
> They'd like me to include a license and copyright info in every source
> file (including empty __init__.py files).
>
> I've responded that I don't want to be unhelpful, but I don't believe in
> putting duplicate license and copyright info in every source code file. To
> my mind, it belongs in a single central place, i.e. the project LICENSE
> file.
>
> Am I being unreasonable and/or daft?
>
>     Jonathan
>
> --
> Jonathan Hartley    tartley at tartley.com    http://tartley.com
> Made of meat.       +44 7737 062 225       twitter/skype: tartley
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-uk<https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk>
>
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From harry.percival at gmail.com  Mon Sep  9 15:42:35 2013
From: harry.percival at gmail.com (Harry Percival)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 14:42:35 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <CAMeRPG8CiECmbwFjeAA8+c0koBErw4VsFJQ2A2TRQhtOx7d6oA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <CAMeRPG8CiECmbwFjeAA8+c0koBErw4VsFJQ2A2TRQhtOx7d6oA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACFvh980TKg61P8UcZT8pXUynfAgf5nmH0y=FVW9UBEzH66NWw@mail.gmail.com>

Not in dunderinits though, surely?


On 9 September 2013 14:30, Gilberto Gon?alves <lursty at gmail.com> wrote:

> I understand your concern since it doesn't look very DRY to put the
> license in all the source files but I believe
> that putting at least a header in each of the files as well as a full
> License file in the root of your project is the
> best way to do it.
>
> Check this:
> http://www.oss-watch.ac.uk/resources/opensourceyourcode#applying-the-licence
>
> Cheers,
> Gil
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Jonathan Hartley <tartley at tartley.com>wrote:
>
>> A small Python project of mine is apparently being included in Chromium,
>> because I've had a bug report from them that my source files (plural) fail
>> their build-time license checker.
>>
>> They'd like me to include a license and copyright info in every source
>> file (including empty __init__.py files).
>>
>> I've responded that I don't want to be unhelpful, but I don't believe in
>> putting duplicate license and copyright info in every source code file. To
>> my mind, it belongs in a single central place, i.e. the project LICENSE
>> file.
>>
>> Am I being unreasonable and/or daft?
>>
>>     Jonathan
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan Hartley    tartley at tartley.com    http://tartley.com
>> Made of meat.       +44 7737 062 225       twitter/skype: tartley
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> python-uk mailing list
>> python-uk at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-uk<https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>
>


-- 
------------------------------
Harry J.W. Percival
------------------------------
Twitter: @hjwp
Mobile:  +44 (0) 78877 02511
Skype:         harry.percival
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From david at deadpansincerity.com  Mon Sep  9 15:50:32 2013
From: david at deadpansincerity.com (David Miller)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 14:50:32 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <CACFvh980TKg61P8UcZT8pXUynfAgf5nmH0y=FVW9UBEzH66NWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <CAMeRPG8CiECmbwFjeAA8+c0koBErw4VsFJQ2A2TRQhtOx7d6oA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACFvh980TKg61P8UcZT8pXUynfAgf5nmH0y=FVW9UBEzH66NWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHwn12KBANJb7nZgRU+wLfTFnQ_=i5utQc7eZdgExeZ7fKdpcg@mail.gmail.com>

I <3 Colorama.

Copyright is quite dull.

Colors in terminal programs are awesome.


On 9 September 2013 14:42, Harry Percival <harry.percival at gmail.com> wrote:

> Not in dunderinits though, surely?
>
>
> On 9 September 2013 14:30, Gilberto Gon?alves <lursty at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I understand your concern since it doesn't look very DRY to put the
>> license in all the source files but I believe
>> that putting at least a header in each of the files as well as a full
>> License file in the root of your project is the
>> best way to do it.
>>
>> Check this:
>> http://www.oss-watch.ac.uk/resources/opensourceyourcode#applying-the-licence
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Gil
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Jonathan Hartley <tartley at tartley.com>wrote:
>>
>>> A small Python project of mine is apparently being included in Chromium,
>>> because I've had a bug report from them that my source files (plural) fail
>>> their build-time license checker.
>>>
>>> They'd like me to include a license and copyright info in every source
>>> file (including empty __init__.py files).
>>>
>>> I've responded that I don't want to be unhelpful, but I don't believe in
>>> putting duplicate license and copyright info in every source code file. To
>>> my mind, it belongs in a single central place, i.e. the project LICENSE
>>> file.
>>>
>>> Am I being unreasonable and/or daft?
>>>
>>>     Jonathan
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jonathan Hartley    tartley at tartley.com    http://tartley.com
>>> Made of meat.       +44 7737 062 225       twitter/skype: tartley
>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> python-uk mailing list
>>> python-uk at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-uk<https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> python-uk mailing list
>> python-uk at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------
> Harry J.W. Percival
> ------------------------------
> Twitter: @hjwp
> Mobile:  +44 (0) 78877 02511
> Skype:         harry.percival
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>
>


-- 
Love regards etc

David Miller
http://www.deadpansincerity.com
07854 880 883
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From doug.winter at isotoma.com  Mon Sep  9 15:21:26 2013
From: doug.winter at isotoma.com (Doug Winter)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 14:21:26 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
Message-ID: <522DCB56.1090108@isotoma.com>


It is normal practice to include a brief license statement in every 
source file, to make it clear what precisely is under the terms of that 
license.

Cheers,

Doug.

On 09/09/13 14:18, Jonathan Hartley wrote:
> A small Python project of mine is apparently being included in 
> Chromium, because I've had a bug report from them that my source files 
> (plural) fail their build-time license checker.
>
> They'd like me to include a license and copyright info in every source 
> file (including empty __init__.py files).
>
> I've responded that I don't want to be unhelpful, but I don't believe 
> in putting duplicate license and copyright info in every source code 
> file. To my mind, it belongs in a single central place, i.e. the 
> project LICENSE file.
>
> Am I being unreasonable and/or daft?
>
>     Jonathan
>


-- 
Telephone: +44 1904 567330, Mobile: +44 7879 423002
Switchboard: +44 1904 567349, Fax: +44 20 79006980
Post: Tower House, Fishergate, York, YO10 4UA, UK

Registered in England.  Company No 5171172.  VAT GB843570325.
Registered Address: Tower House, Fishergate, York, YO10 4UA


From stestagg at gmail.com  Mon Sep  9 16:04:52 2013
From: stestagg at gmail.com (Stestagg)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 15:04:52 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <522DCB56.1090108@isotoma.com>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
	<522DCB56.1090108@isotoma.com>
Message-ID: <CACFDE8arwJcOpeWb=kKXfoJKSZAShcaoZ7fB06FFp6XzmpB-3w@mail.gmail.com>

The (il-)logic of trying to apply copyright statements to an otherwise
empty file should be weighed against the effort of writing a syntax checker
that can ignore such files.

Generally, it's easier to script these things, so having a script that
blindly adds the copyright header to all python files in the project
(assuming there aren't files from other projects) is probably the best
solution here.


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Doug Winter <doug.winter at isotoma.com> wrote:

>
> It is normal practice to include a brief license statement in every source
> file, to make it clear what precisely is under the terms of that license.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Doug.
>
>
> On 09/09/13 14:18, Jonathan Hartley wrote:
>
>> A small Python project of mine is apparently being included in Chromium,
>> because I've had a bug report from them that my source files (plural) fail
>> their build-time license checker.
>>
>> They'd like me to include a license and copyright info in every source
>> file (including empty __init__.py files).
>>
>> I've responded that I don't want to be unhelpful, but I don't believe in
>> putting duplicate license and copyright info in every source code file. To
>> my mind, it belongs in a single central place, i.e. the project LICENSE
>> file.
>>
>> Am I being unreasonable and/or daft?
>>
>>     Jonathan
>>
>>
>
> --
> Telephone: +44 1904 567330, Mobile: +44 7879 423002
> Switchboard: +44 1904 567349, Fax: +44 20 79006980
> Post: Tower House, Fishergate, York, YO10 4UA, UK
>
> Registered in England.  Company No 5171172.  VAT GB843570325.
> Registered Address: Tower House, Fishergate, York, YO10 4UA
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-uk<https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk>
>
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From matth at netsight.co.uk  Mon Sep  9 15:58:48 2013
From: matth at netsight.co.uk (Matt Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 14:58:48 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <CACFvh980TKg61P8UcZT8pXUynfAgf5nmH0y=FVW9UBEzH66NWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <CAMeRPG8CiECmbwFjeAA8+c0koBErw4VsFJQ2A2TRQhtOx7d6oA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACFvh980TKg61P8UcZT8pXUynfAgf5nmH0y=FVW9UBEzH66NWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7872C34F-395E-4EEB-AD89-40C2BA01BD56@netsight.co.uk>


On 9 Sep 2013, at 14:42, Harry Percival wrote:

> Not in dunderinits though, surely?

Well, if you don't then surely someone might copy your blank file and pass it off as their own and rob you of your IP revenue ;)

-Matt

-- 
Matt Hamilton, Technical Director
Netsight Internet Solutions Limited
http://www.netsight.co.uk/matth
Tel: 0117 90 90 90 1 Ext. 13

Registered in England No. 3892180
Registered office: 40 Berkeley Square, Clifton, Bristol, BS8 1HU


From tartley at tartley.com  Mon Sep  9 17:13:26 2013
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 16:13:26 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <CAMWL9gUCE99=WN7=-L5XdSNinnA-t_iRzw5PGyXsQrFucjgYPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <CABjtApuAf=0jWp-+5MsmQMXKJxTSwQeQaRFgfdkX13kS3k0VUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMWL9gUCE99=WN7=-L5XdSNinnA-t_iRzw5PGyXsQrFucjgYPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <522DE596.2050303@tartley.com>

Why would a file ever be seen out of context? Surely to make my source 
available without the LICENSE file is breaking the terms of my license, 
so I'm not sure why I ought to jump through hoops just to cater for such 
people. Am I wrong?

     Jonathan



On 09/09/13 14:30, Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
> I concur, you do not have to put the full license text in it, a 
> reference to it is fine.
> The logic behind that request is that some files may be seen out of 
> context of the project (as there is no reference), without having a 
> license attached the file can be legally misrepresented as being 
> public domain.
>
>
> So yes a one liner as Andy has given is all you need, by having your 
> name and year, any reference can be then looked up by anybody who is 
> interested.
>
>
> On 9 September 2013 14:24, Andy Robinson <andy at reportlab.com 
> <mailto:andy at reportlab.com>> wrote:
>
>     On 9 September 2013 14:18, Jonathan Hartley <tartley at tartley.com
>     <mailto:tartley at tartley.com>> wrote:
>     > They'd like me to include a license and copyright info in every
>     source file
>     > (including empty __init__.py files).
>
>     I have had this with big companies before, long ago.  It may actually
>     be sufficient to have one line saying something like...
>
>     "Copyright Jonathan Hartley 2013.  MIT-style license; see
>     mypackage/LICENSE.TXT for details"
>
>     - Andy
>     _______________________________________________
>     python-uk mailing list
>     python-uk at python.org <mailto:python-uk at python.org>
>     https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

-- 
Jonathan Hartley    tartley at tartley.com    http://tartley.com
Made of meat.       +44 7737 062 225       twitter/skype: tartley

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From lord.mauve at gmail.com  Mon Sep  9 17:14:00 2013
From: lord.mauve at gmail.com (Daniel Pope)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 16:14:00 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
Message-ID: <CAGAAuhPc-UuZ-1H5Dx7fLvBPM1viUAjuBNdB4aRuUtOPS+wqZA@mail.gmail.com>

You don't have to include a notice of copyright to enjoy copyright
protection (under the Berne Convention). Nothing is assumed to be public
domain unless it is explicitly disclaimed as such.

Since licence terms are based on copyright I don't think you need to state
it everywhere. If someone fails to receive a copy of the licence they can
assume no rights to copy your code.
On 9 Sep 2013 14:18, "Jonathan Hartley" <tartley at tartley.com> wrote:

> A small Python project of mine is apparently being included in Chromium,
> because I've had a bug report from them that my source files (plural) fail
> their build-time license checker.
>
> They'd like me to include a license and copyright info in every source
> file (including empty __init__.py files).
>
> I've responded that I don't want to be unhelpful, but I don't believe in
> putting duplicate license and copyright info in every source code file. To
> my mind, it belongs in a single central place, i.e. the project LICENSE
> file.
>
> Am I being unreasonable and/or daft?
>
>     Jonathan
>
> --
> Jonathan Hartley    tartley at tartley.com    http://tartley.com
> Made of meat.       +44 7737 062 225       twitter/skype: tartley
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-uk<https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk>
>
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From martin.hellwig at gmail.com  Mon Sep  9 17:28:01 2013
From: martin.hellwig at gmail.com (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 16:28:01 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <522DE596.2050303@tartley.com>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <CABjtApuAf=0jWp-+5MsmQMXKJxTSwQeQaRFgfdkX13kS3k0VUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMWL9gUCE99=WN7=-L5XdSNinnA-t_iRzw5PGyXsQrFucjgYPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <522DE596.2050303@tartley.com>
Message-ID: <CAMWL9gVN4-QDj-wyhT4oC5z2oAHurSjwM3B+d2FTa5ouwS=AhQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes you are right, however quoting the adage; explicit is better then
implicit :-)
To be honest, I find it rather strange that someone who likes to use your
code is dictating you what to do, me being a contractor would reply with:
Sure I'll do that for you, that is then X? please, if you are not happy
with that, you can FO ;-) Though there is some bragging rights if you can
say that Google uses your code in one of their flagship products,
 so it is just up to you, nobody can make/force you.
I would be interested though in what you decide to do.


On 9 September 2013 16:13, Jonathan Hartley <tartley at tartley.com> wrote:

>  Why would a file ever be seen out of context? Surely to make my source
> available without the LICENSE file is breaking the terms of my license, so
> I'm not sure why I ought to jump through hoops just to cater for such
> people. Am I wrong?
>
>     Jonathan
>
>
>
>
> On 09/09/13 14:30, Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
>
>  I concur, you do not have to put the full license text in it, a
> reference to it is fine.
>  The logic behind that request is that some files may be seen out of
> context of the project (as there is no reference), without having a license
> attached the file can be legally misrepresented as being public domain.
>
>
>  So yes a one liner as Andy has given is all you need, by having your
> name and year, any reference can be then looked up by anybody who is
> interested.
>
>
>  On 9 September 2013 14:24, Andy Robinson <andy at reportlab.com> wrote:
>
>> On 9 September 2013 14:18, Jonathan Hartley <tartley at tartley.com> wrote:
>> > They'd like me to include a license and copyright info in every source
>> file
>> > (including empty __init__.py files).
>>
>>  I have had this with big companies before, long ago.  It may actually
>> be sufficient to have one line saying something like...
>>
>> "Copyright Jonathan Hartley 2013.  MIT-style license; see
>> mypackage/LICENSE.TXT for details"
>>
>> - Andy
>>  _______________________________________________
>> python-uk mailing list
>> python-uk at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-uk mailing listpython-uk at python.orghttps://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>
>
> --
> Jonathan Hartley    tartley at tartley.com    http://tartley.com
> Made of meat.       +44 7737 062 225       twitter/skype: tartley
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>
>
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From russel at winder.org.uk  Mon Sep  9 20:53:26 2013
From: russel at winder.org.uk (Russel Winder)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 19:53:26 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
Message-ID: <1378752806.17064.50.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>

On Mon, 2013-09-09 at 14:18 +0100, Jonathan Hartley wrote:
> A small Python project of mine is apparently being included in Chromium, 
> because I've had a bug report from them that my source files (plural) 
> fail their build-time license checker.
> 
> They'd like me to include a license and copyright info in every source 
> file (including empty __init__.py files).
> 
> I've responded that I don't want to be unhelpful, but I don't believe in 
> putting duplicate license and copyright info in every source code file. 
> To my mind, it belongs in a single central place, i.e. the project 
> LICENSE file.
> 
> Am I being unreasonable and/or daft?

Sadly, although it would be nice to have a file that says it applies to
all files and so be very DRY, this will not work in UK and USA law,
possibly also other jurisdictions.

The licence statement has to be in each and every individual file since
in UK and USA law each file is deemed a separate work.

If you check FSF and other FOSS licence places they will set this out as
the process because of this problem.

Some IDEs even have plugins to sort this out for you! 

-- 
Russel.
=============================================================================
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder at ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel at winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder
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From russel at winder.org.uk  Mon Sep  9 21:03:06 2013
From: russel at winder.org.uk (Russel Winder)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 20:03:06 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <CAGAAuhPc-UuZ-1H5Dx7fLvBPM1viUAjuBNdB4aRuUtOPS+wqZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <CAGAAuhPc-UuZ-1H5Dx7fLvBPM1viUAjuBNdB4aRuUtOPS+wqZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1378753386.17064.57.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>

On Mon, 2013-09-09 at 16:14 +0100, Daniel Pope wrote:
> You don't have to include a notice of copyright to enjoy copyright
> protection (under the Berne Convention). Nothing is assumed to be public
> domain unless it is explicitly disclaimed as such.
> 
> Since licence terms are based on copyright I don't think you need to state
> it everywhere. If someone fails to receive a copy of the licence they can
> assume no rights to copy your code.

Whilst you are correct that this has been agreed by case law for books
and magazines (the so called moral rights), as far as I am aware there
has been no case in the UK that has provided case law for this. Legal
advice is always to put an explicit statement of copyright, copyright
owner and licence in all files. The issue here is "explicit is better
than implicit" (*). 

The difficulty, at least in UK precedent, is to know the provenance of
the content. Has the material been copied via a route that creates a
public domain work. This sort of thing is far easier to trace for
physical works.


(*) See what I did there?

-- 
Russel.
=============================================================================
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder at ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel at winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder
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From russel at winder.org.uk  Mon Sep  9 21:07:38 2013
From: russel at winder.org.uk (Russel Winder)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 20:07:38 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <522DE596.2050303@tartley.com>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <CABjtApuAf=0jWp-+5MsmQMXKJxTSwQeQaRFgfdkX13kS3k0VUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMWL9gUCE99=WN7=-L5XdSNinnA-t_iRzw5PGyXsQrFucjgYPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <522DE596.2050303@tartley.com>
Message-ID: <1378753658.17064.61.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>

On Mon, 2013-09-09 at 16:13 +0100, Jonathan Hartley wrote:
> Why would a file ever be seen out of context? Surely to make my source 
> available without the LICENSE file is breaking the terms of my license, 
> so I'm not sure why I ought to jump through hoops just to cater for such 
> people. Am I wrong?

You are both right and wrong. You are right that this should be the case
in (programmer) logic. However the issue is what does the amalgam of
statute, case law, barristers and judges make of the situation.

I would suggest either complying with the request, or withdraw the
material from licenced use.

-- 
Russel.
=============================================================================
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder at ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel at winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder
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From tartley at tartley.com  Mon Sep  9 21:57:08 2013
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 20:57:08 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
Message-ID: <pmsh8xwhfpn6qj38o82xne8f.1378756628560@email.android.com>

Thanks for all the input, people.

FWIW, The folks downstream said their motivation was the continual difficulty of automatically checking for acceptable licenses on the many bits of (allegedly) FOSS they use. They have 4k of filenames that the license checker can't currently account for, and re-checking them all manually every few months is a continual drain.

I'll roll over on this one. That the world is the way it is raises my hackles, but no point me making life harder for some other blameless devs. I'll squeeze it into 80 chars per file somehow. Thanks for the pointers on that.

Jonathan Hartley
http://tartley.com

Russel Winder <russel at winder.org.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 2013-09-09 at 16:13 +0100, Jonathan Hartley wrote:
>> Why would a file ever be seen out of context? Surely to make my source 
>> available without the LICENSE file is breaking the terms of my license, 
>> so I'm not sure why I ought to jump through hoops just to cater for such 
>> people. Am I wrong?
>
>You are both right and wrong. You are right that this should be the case
>in (programmer) logic. However the issue is what does the amalgam of
>statute, case law, barristers and judges make of the situation.
>
>I would suggest either complying with the request, or withdraw the
>material from licenced use.
>
>-- 
>Russel.
>=============================================================================
>Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder at ekiga.net
>41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel at winder.org.uk
>London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder
>
>_______________________________________________
>python-uk mailing list
>python-uk at python.org
>https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

From lord.mauve at gmail.com  Mon Sep  9 22:02:47 2013
From: lord.mauve at gmail.com (Daniel Pope)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 21:02:47 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <pmsh8xwhfpn6qj38o82xne8f.1378756628560@email.android.com>
References: <pmsh8xwhfpn6qj38o82xne8f.1378756628560@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAGAAuhMFWifu4===hemD2bkF971ugUu6rFh=JdvcKMcXYX41Xw@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe you could omit license headers in your repo, but add them when
building the sdist?


On 9 September 2013 20:57, Jonathan Hartley <tartley at tartley.com> wrote:

> Thanks for all the input, people.
>
> FWIW, The folks downstream said their motivation was the continual
> difficulty of automatically checking for acceptable licenses on the many
> bits of (allegedly) FOSS they use. They have 4k of filenames that the
> license checker can't currently account for, and re-checking them all
> manually every few months is a continual drain.
>
> I'll roll over on this one. That the world is the way it is raises my
> hackles, but no point me making life harder for some other blameless devs.
> I'll squeeze it into 80 chars per file somehow. Thanks for the pointers on
> that.
>
> Jonathan Hartley
> http://tartley.com
>
> Russel Winder <russel at winder.org.uk> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 2013-09-09 at 16:13 +0100, Jonathan Hartley wrote:
> >> Why would a file ever be seen out of context? Surely to make my source
> >> available without the LICENSE file is breaking the terms of my license,
> >> so I'm not sure why I ought to jump through hoops just to cater for such
> >> people. Am I wrong?
> >
> >You are both right and wrong. You are right that this should be the case
> >in (programmer) logic. However the issue is what does the amalgam of
> >statute, case law, barristers and judges make of the situation.
> >
> >I would suggest either complying with the request, or withdraw the
> >material from licenced use.
> >
> >--
> >Russel.
>
> >=============================================================================
> >Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip:
> sip:russel.winder at ekiga.net
> >41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel at winder.org.uk
> >London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >python-uk mailing list
> >python-uk at python.org
> >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> _______________________________________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>
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From tartley at tartley.com  Mon Sep  9 22:20:05 2013
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 21:20:05 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
Message-ID: <u373jdy3i90nbjhe6i0bkmai.1378758005391@email.android.com>

You are cunning. Or maybe configure my editor to auto hide (fold?) such gubbins?

But sadly I don't think I can justify the time to ingulge in such appealing trickery. A ten second Awk invocation it will be, followed by 'make release'.

Jonathan Hartley
http://tartley.com

Daniel Pope <lord.mauve at gmail.com> wrote:

>Maybe you could omit license headers in your repo, but add them when
>building the sdist?
>
>
>On 9 September 2013 20:57, Jonathan Hartley <tartley at tartley.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for all the input, people.
>>
>> FWIW, The folks downstream said their motivation was the continual
>> difficulty of automatically checking for acceptable licenses on the many
>> bits of (allegedly) FOSS they use. They have 4k of filenames that the
>> license checker can't currently account for, and re-checking them all
>> manually every few months is a continual drain.
>>
>> I'll roll over on this one. That the world is the way it is raises my
>> hackles, but no point me making life harder for some other blameless devs.
>> I'll squeeze it into 80 chars per file somehow. Thanks for the pointers on
>> that.
>>
>> Jonathan Hartley
>> http://tartley.com
>>
>> Russel Winder <russel at winder.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >On Mon, 2013-09-09 at 16:13 +0100, Jonathan Hartley wrote:
>> >> Why would a file ever be seen out of context? Surely to make my source
>> >> available without the LICENSE file is breaking the terms of my license,
>> >> so I'm not sure why I ought to jump through hoops just to cater for such
>> >> people. Am I wrong?
>> >
>> >You are both right and wrong. You are right that this should be the case
>> >in (programmer) logic. However the issue is what does the amalgam of
>> >statute, case law, barristers and judges make of the situation.
>> >
>> >I would suggest either complying with the request, or withdraw the
>> >material from licenced use.
>> >
>> >--
>> >Russel.
>>
>> >=============================================================================
>> >Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip:
>> sip:russel.winder at ekiga.net
>> >41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel at winder.org.uk
>> >London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >python-uk mailing list
>> >python-uk at python.org
>> >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>> _______________________________________________
>> python-uk mailing list
>> python-uk at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>python-uk mailing list
>python-uk at python.org
>https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

From andy at reportlab.com  Tue Sep 10 10:03:22 2013
From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 09:03:22 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <1378752806.17064.50.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <1378752806.17064.50.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>
Message-ID: <CABjtApudPp=pofbpEm09p_s7S6rT2sqZ+DLa94ZgGdKK+G-h0Q@mail.gmail.com>

On 9 September 2013 19:53, Russel Winder <russel at winder.org.uk> wrote:
> The licence statement has to be in each and every individual file since
> in UK and USA law each file is deemed a separate work.
>

Russel, thanks.  That's interesting.

The practical issue is "how not to forget over time".  A test in a
test suite, or a hook in a setup /release script which walks the files
and warns you would be very useful for anyone who has to do this.   We
used to have a subversion commit hook once upon a time, but DVCS made
it trickier.




-- 
Andy

From doug.winter at isotoma.com  Tue Sep 10 11:02:13 2013
From: doug.winter at isotoma.com (Doug Winter)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:02:13 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <1378752806.17064.50.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <1378752806.17064.50.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>
Message-ID: <522EE015.4090707@isotoma.com>

On 09/09/13 19:53, Russel Winder wrote:
> Sadly, although it would be nice to have a file that says it applies 
> to all files and so be very DRY, this will not work in UK and USA law, 
> possibly also other jurisdictions. The licence statement has to be in 
> each and every individual file since in UK and USA law each file is 
> deemed a separate work. If you check FSF and other FOSS licence places 
> they will set this out as the process because of this problem. Some 
> IDEs even have plugins to sort this out for you!

This.

There have been many, many cases of open source projects with valid 
LICENSE files that turn out to have a couple of files from somewhere 
else that are not appropriately licensed.  I don't know if anyone 
remembers the mplayer saga on debian-legal, for example.

By putting a (c) statement and license summary in every file you are 
removing the risk from someone who uses your code that they are going to 
end up in a difficult position later.  Google are being reasonable in 
protecting themselves here.

Although getting licensing right is amazingly dull, it is relatively 
easy if you use a good license just follow the instructions provided 
with it.

FWIW, personally I recommend the Apache License 2.0 as the best license 
available right now (if you don't care about copylefting), and it has 
very clear instructions in the appendix:

http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0

That notice should be included in every file, because each is a 
potentially independent work.

Cheers,

Doug.

-- 
Telephone: +44 1904 567330, Mobile: +44 7879 423002
Switchboard: +44 1904 567349, Fax: +44 20 79006980
Post: Tower House, Fishergate, York, YO10 4UA, UK

Registered in England.  Company No 5171172.  VAT GB843570325.
Registered Address: Tower House, Fishergate, York, YO10 4UA


From kroger at pedrokroger.net  Tue Sep 10 13:01:19 2013
From: kroger at pedrokroger.net (Pedro Kroger)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 12:01:19 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <CABjtApudPp=pofbpEm09p_s7S6rT2sqZ+DLa94ZgGdKK+G-h0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <1378752806.17064.50.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>
 <CABjtApudPp=pofbpEm09p_s7S6rT2sqZ+DLa94ZgGdKK+G-h0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B4A482E9-5DC7-49E7-AF39-9F4509004D2A@pedrokroger.net>


Pedro
-----
http://pedrokroger.net
http://musicforgeeksandnerds.com



On Sep 10, 2013, at 9:03 AM, Andy Robinson <andy at reportlab.com> wrote:

> On 9 September 2013 19:53, Russel Winder <russel at winder.org.uk> wrote:
>> The licence statement has to be in each and every individual file since
>> in UK and USA law each file is deemed a separate work.

Does it have to be the full license, or can it be an one liner pointing to the LICENSE file?

> Russel, thanks.  That's interesting.
> 
> The practical issue is "how not to forget over time".  A test in a
> test suite, or a hook in a setup /release script which walks the files
> and warns you would be very useful for anyone who has to do this.   We
> used to have a subversion commit hook once upon a time, but DVCS made
> it trickier.

You can have a commit hook in git, either it the client or server side:

http://git-scm.com/book/en/Customizing-Git-Git-Hooks


Pedro
-----
http://pedrokroger.net
http://musicforgeeksandnerds.com


From tartley at tartley.com  Tue Sep 10 14:33:51 2013
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 13:33:51 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <522EE015.4090707@isotoma.com>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <1378752806.17064.50.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>
 <522EE015.4090707@isotoma.com>
Message-ID: <522F11AF.8090307@tartley.com>

Thanks Doug.

I'd be interested if you wanted to expand on why you like that license. 
Is it anything other than what I could glean from a layman's reading of 
the text?

That Apache license page is puzzling to me, no doubt due to my 
inexperience in such matters.

Why does the boilerplate attached to every file contain a partial, 
reworded version of clause 7 of the license, but not of any other 
clauses? Why is this copy reworded? Are the rewordings legally 
significant? If so, what do the differences mean, if not, why are they 
there? Presumably only a lawyer is qualified to answer.

Presumably the  ':::text' boilerplate prefix just an erroneous markup snafu?

     Jonathan


On 10/09/13 10:02, Doug Winter wrote:
> On 09/09/13 19:53, Russel Winder wrote:
>> Sadly, although it would be nice to have a file that says it applies 
>> to all files and so be very DRY, this will not work in UK and USA 
>> law, possibly also other jurisdictions. The licence statement has to 
>> be in each and every individual file since in UK and USA law each 
>> file is deemed a separate work. If you check FSF and other FOSS 
>> licence places they will set this out as the process because of this 
>> problem. Some IDEs even have plugins to sort this out for you!
>
> This.
>
> There have been many, many cases of open source projects with valid 
> LICENSE files that turn out to have a couple of files from somewhere 
> else that are not appropriately licensed.  I don't know if anyone 
> remembers the mplayer saga on debian-legal, for example.
>
> By putting a (c) statement and license summary in every file you are 
> removing the risk from someone who uses your code that they are going 
> to end up in a difficult position later.  Google are being reasonable 
> in protecting themselves here.
>
> Although getting licensing right is amazingly dull, it is relatively 
> easy if you use a good license just follow the instructions provided 
> with it.
>
> FWIW, personally I recommend the Apache License 2.0 as the best 
> license available right now (if you don't care about copylefting), and 
> it has very clear instructions in the appendix:
>
> http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0
>
> That notice should be included in every file, because each is a 
> potentially independent work.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Doug.
>

-- 
Jonathan Hartley    tartley at tartley.com    http://tartley.com
Made of meat.       +44 7737 062 225       twitter/skype: tartley


From jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk  Tue Sep 10 15:18:51 2013
From: jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 14:18:51 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <1378752806.17064.50.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <1378752806.17064.50.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20130910131851.GE921@snowy.squish.net>

On Mon, Sep 09, 2013 at 07:53:26PM +0100, Russel Winder wrote:
> Sadly, although it would be nice to have a file that says it applies to
> all files and so be very DRY, this will not work in UK and USA law,
> possibly also other jurisdictions.

Do you have a reference for this? As far as I am aware, that statement
is simply wrong. Legally speaking, theoretically none of the computer
files comprising a program require any sort of copyright statement or
licence information whatsoever. The licence could be a completely
separate thing, for example a piece of physical paper.

From jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk  Tue Sep 10 15:14:03 2013
From: jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 14:14:03 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <1378753386.17064.57.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <CAGAAuhPc-UuZ-1H5Dx7fLvBPM1viUAjuBNdB4aRuUtOPS+wqZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1378753386.17064.57.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20130910131403.GD921@snowy.squish.net>

On Mon, Sep 09, 2013 at 08:03:06PM +0100, Russel Winder wrote:
> Whilst you are correct that this has been agreed by case law for books
> and magazines (the so called moral rights), as far as I am aware there
> has been no case in the UK that has provided case law for this. Legal
> advice is always to put an explicit statement of copyright, copyright
> owner and licence in all files.

Only, I think, because lawyers tend to err on the side of what they
perceive as caution rather than having any confidence that their
advice is actually correct.

> The difficulty, at least in UK precedent, is to know the provenance of
> the content. Has the material been copied via a route that creates a
> public domain work.

You mean, was this computer program code written over 70 years ago or
by somebody who died over 70 years ago? It doesn't seem very likely.

From doug.winter at isotoma.com  Tue Sep 10 15:37:51 2013
From: doug.winter at isotoma.com (Doug Winter)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 14:37:51 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <522F11AF.8090307@tartley.com>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <1378752806.17064.50.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>
 <522EE015.4090707@isotoma.com> <522F11AF.8090307@tartley.com>
Message-ID: <522F20AF.7070502@isotoma.com>

On 10/09/13 13:33, Jonathan Hartley wrote:
> Thanks Doug.
>
> I'd be interested if you wanted to expand on why you like that 
> license. Is it anything other than what I could glean from a layman's 
> reading of the text?

It's basically the 3-clause MIT license, but legally much more 
watertight and (importantly) with support for patents.

> That Apache license page is puzzling to me, no doubt due to my 
> inexperience in such matters.
>
> Why does the boilerplate attached to every file contain a partial, 
> reworded version of clause 7 of the license, but not of any other 
> clauses? Why is this copy reworded? Are the rewordings legally 
> significant? If so, what do the differences mean, if not, why are they 
> there? Presumably only a lawyer is qualified to answer.

I am not a lawyer but I think I can answer.

Much of the wording of clause 7 is explicitly included because the 
disclaimer of warranty is the most important thing in there to YOU. 
Anyone who looks at this software will know there is no warranty, and 
won't be able to claim "oh the apache website was down" or something.   
Everything else is pretty much a grant to them, so no need to be so 
obvious about it.

The rewording is because the original clause contains Definitions With 
Initial Capitals Which Are A Part Of A Contract. Without the defined 
terms earlier on it makes no sense.

It also misses out the including, without limitation, bits. That is belt 
and braces anyhow, so maybe they just wanted to be as terse as possible 
in the file header.

> Presumably the  ':::text' boilerplate prefix just an erroneous markup 
> snafu?

yeah looks like it.


Cheers,

Doug.


-- 
Telephone: +44 1904 567330, Mobile: +44 7879 423002
Switchboard: +44 1904 567349, Fax: +44 20 79006980
Post: Tower House, Fishergate, York, YO10 4UA, UK

Registered in England.  Company No 5171172.  VAT GB843570325.
Registered Address: Tower House, Fishergate, York, YO10 4UA


From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Sep 10 21:07:18 2013
From: jjl at pobox.com (John Lee)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 20:07:18 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <CABjtApudPp=pofbpEm09p_s7S6rT2sqZ+DLa94ZgGdKK+G-h0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <1378752806.17064.50.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>
 <CABjtApudPp=pofbpEm09p_s7S6rT2sqZ+DLa94ZgGdKK+G-h0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1309101952230.2558@alice>

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013, Andy Robinson wrote:

> On 9 September 2013 19:53, Russel Winder <russel at winder.org.uk> wrote:
>> The licence statement has to be in each and every individual file since
>> in UK and USA law each file is deemed a separate work.
>>
>
> Russel, thanks.  That's interesting.
>
> The practical issue is "how not to forget over time".  A test in a
> test suite, or a hook in a setup /release script which walks the files
> and warns you would be very useful for anyone who has to do this.   We
> used to have a subversion commit hook once upon a time, but DVCS made
> it trickier.

I've seen it done in a special "coding style test suite" (that gets run 
along with all the other tests).  Slightly nicer than a push hook IMO 
because you see it earlier and because it works the same way as all your 
other automated tests of your code.  There was a bit of special code so 
that you got one failure per coding style violation I think (including one 
per missing copyright statement), but those are bonus points.

Maybe somebody has written a test runner plugin that does that?  My quick 
searches didn't turn one up, though there is this, which could easily be 
adapted (not a plugin, and looks like it wants to be)

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12227443/is-there-a-plugin-for-pylint-and-pyflakes-for-nose-tests


John

From russel at winder.org.uk  Tue Sep 10 23:49:26 2013
From: russel at winder.org.uk (Russel Winder)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 22:49:26 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <20130910131851.GE921@snowy.squish.net>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <1378752806.17064.50.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>
 <20130910131851.GE921@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <1378849766.715.27.camel@lionors.winder.org.uk>

On Tue, 2013-09-10 at 14:18 +0100, Jon Ribbens wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 09, 2013 at 07:53:26PM +0100, Russel Winder wrote:
> > Sadly, although it would be nice to have a file that says it applies to
> > all files and so be very DRY, this will not work in UK and USA law,
> > possibly also other jurisdictions.
> 
> Do you have a reference for this? As far as I am aware, that statement
> is simply wrong. Legally speaking, theoretically none of the computer
> files comprising a program require any sort of copyright statement or
> licence information whatsoever. The licence could be a completely
> separate thing, for example a piece of physical paper.

I am not aware of any authority that puts this in case law, so you are
right to point out that I am intimating something that is not actually
law. However neither am I explicitly wrong. But IANAL so you may know of
authorities which make me wrong on this.

You are correct that the author of any literary work has moral rights in
that work. The copyright always rests with the original author unless
explicitly assigned. However in the cases I have been involved with,
barristers have chosen not to make any copyright arguments over source
files where there was no explicit statement of copyright in the original
file. Other issues yes, but not ones of copyright.

My comment perhaps implied more that it should, but is founded in
pragmatics.

-- 
Russel.
=============================================================================
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder at ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel at winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder
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From russel at winder.org.uk  Tue Sep 10 23:55:39 2013
From: russel at winder.org.uk (Russel Winder)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 22:55:39 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <20130910131403.GD921@snowy.squish.net>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <CAGAAuhPc-UuZ-1H5Dx7fLvBPM1viUAjuBNdB4aRuUtOPS+wqZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1378753386.17064.57.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>
 <20130910131403.GD921@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <1378850139.715.32.camel@lionors.winder.org.uk>

On Tue, 2013-09-10 at 14:14 +0100, Jon Ribbens wrote:
[?]
> Only, I think, because lawyers tend to err on the side of what they
> perceive as caution rather than having any confidence that their
> advice is actually correct.

Indeed. Most are usually interested in winning, and making money, not in
doing the "right thing" (whatever that is).

> You mean, was this computer program code written over 70 years ago or
> by somebody who died over 70 years ago? It doesn't seem very likely.

Not always. As I understand it, if there is a copyright violation that
the copyright owner fails to act against, it can lead to the material
being deemed to be in the public domain. But IANAL.

-- 
Russel.
=============================================================================
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder at ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel at winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder
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From doug.winter at isotoma.com  Wed Sep 11 07:54:58 2013
From: doug.winter at isotoma.com (Doug Winter)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 06:54:58 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <1378850139.715.32.camel@lionors.winder.org.uk>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <CAGAAuhPc-UuZ-1H5Dx7fLvBPM1viUAjuBNdB4aRuUtOPS+wqZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1378753386.17064.57.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>
 <20130910131403.GD921@snowy.squish.net>
 <1378850139.715.32.camel@lionors.winder.org.uk>
Message-ID: <523005B2.4050909@isotoma.com>

On 10/09/13 22:55, Russel Winder wrote:
> You mean, was this computer program code written over 70 years ago or
> by somebody who died over 70 years ago? It doesn't seem very likely.
> Not always. As I understand it, if there is a copyright violation that
> the copyright owner fails to act against, it can lead to the material
> being deemed to be in the public domain. But IANAL.
>

I think you are thinking of trademarks. Copyright doesn't require 
defence, and the (very limited in the UK) moral rights are inalienable.

Cheers,

Doug.

-- 
Telephone: +44 1904 567330, Mobile: +44 7879 423002
Switchboard: +44 1904 567349, Fax: +44 20 79006980
Post: Tower House, Fishergate, York, YO10 4UA, UK

Registered in England.  Company No 5171172.  VAT GB843570325.
Registered Address: Tower House, Fishergate, York, YO10 4UA


From tartley at tartley.com  Wed Sep 11 09:48:34 2013
From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:48:34 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1309101952230.2558@alice>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <1378752806.17064.50.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>
 <CABjtApudPp=pofbpEm09p_s7S6rT2sqZ+DLa94ZgGdKK+G-h0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1309101952230.2558@alice>
Message-ID: <52302052.9060405@tartley.com>


On 10/09/13 20:07, John Lee wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Sep 2013, Andy Robinson wrote:
>
>> On 9 September 2013 19:53, Russel Winder <russel at winder.org.uk> wrote:
>>> The licence statement has to be in each and every individual file since
>>> in UK and USA law each file is deemed a separate work.
>>>
>>
>> Russel, thanks.  That's interesting.
>>
>> The practical issue is "how not to forget over time".  A test in a
>> test suite, or a hook in a setup /release script which walks the files
>> and warns you would be very useful for anyone who has to do this.   We
>> used to have a subversion commit hook once upon a time, but DVCS made
>> it trickier.
>
> I've seen it done in a special "coding style test suite" (that gets 
> run along with all the other tests).  Slightly nicer than a push hook 
> IMO because you see it earlier and because it works the same way as 
> all your other automated tests of your code.  There was a bit of 
> special code so that you got one failure per coding style violation I 
> think (including one per missing copyright statement), but those are 
> bonus points.
>
> Maybe somebody has written a test runner plugin that does that? My 
> quick searches didn't turn one up, though there is this, which could 
> easily be adapted (not a plugin, and looks like it wants to be)
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12227443/is-there-a-plugin-for-pylint-and-pyflakes-for-nose-tests 
>
>
>
> John
> _______________________________________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk


I don't think it should be a test runner plugin, so much as just a test. 
Maybe a big common utility function (in a pypi package) which a tiny 
custom test function can then call to parametrize it for your project.

-- 
Jonathan Hartley    tartley at tartley.com    http://tartley.com
Made of meat.       +44 7737 062 225       twitter/skype: tartley


From duncan.booth at suttoncourtenay.org.uk  Wed Sep 11 13:16:46 2013
From: duncan.booth at suttoncourtenay.org.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 12:16:46 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <1378849766.715.27.camel@lionors.winder.org.uk>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <1378752806.17064.50.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>
 <20130910131851.GE921@snowy.squish.net>
 <1378849766.715.27.camel@lionors.winder.org.uk>
Message-ID: <CAGGicCLA01rH8hRHWE8jjx0dcBNhZb2Gr=7xB8zUwTR1QSPOzQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 10 September 2013 22:49, Russel Winder <russel at winder.org.uk> wrote:

> You are correct that the author of any literary work has moral rights in
> that work. The copyright always rests with the original author unless
> explicitly assigned. However in the cases I have been involved with,
> barristers have chosen not to make any copyright arguments over source
> files where there was no explicit statement of copyright in the original
> file. Other issues yes, but not ones of copyright.
>

Copyright is mostly automatic, so a single copyright on the project, or
indeed none at all, won't make any significant difference to an individual
assertion in each file. However, if you want to be identified as the author
of a work you must explicitly assert that right. If each source file is a
separate work then I guess you may need to assert that in every file.
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From jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk  Thu Sep 12 15:48:39 2013
From: jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 14:48:39 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <1378850139.715.32.camel@lionors.winder.org.uk>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <CAGAAuhPc-UuZ-1H5Dx7fLvBPM1viUAjuBNdB4aRuUtOPS+wqZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1378753386.17064.57.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>
 <20130910131403.GD921@snowy.squish.net>
 <1378850139.715.32.camel@lionors.winder.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20130912134839.GG921@snowy.squish.net>

On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:55:39PM +0100, Russel Winder wrote:
> Not always. As I understand it, if there is a copyright violation that
> the copyright owner fails to act against, it can lead to the material
> being deemed to be in the public domain. But IANAL.

I'm pretty sure that is not true. As Doug said, I think you're
thinking of trademarks, where it is true.

From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep 12 21:08:54 2013
From: jjl at pobox.com (John Lee)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 20:08:54 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [python-uk] copyright info in source
In-Reply-To: <52302052.9060405@tartley.com>
References: <522DCA92.8020105@tartley.com>
 <1378752806.17064.50.camel@anglides.winder.org.uk>
 <CABjtApudPp=pofbpEm09p_s7S6rT2sqZ+DLa94ZgGdKK+G-h0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1309101952230.2558@alice> <52302052.9060405@tartley.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1309122003530.2347@alice>

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013, Jonathan Hartley wrote:
[...]
>> I've seen it done in a special "coding style test suite" (that gets run 
>> along with all the other tests).  Slightly nicer than a push hook IMO 
>> because you see it earlier and because it works the same way as all your 
>> other automated tests of your code.  There was a bit of special code so 
>> that you got one failure per coding style violation I think (including one 
>> per missing copyright statement), but those are bonus points.
>> 
>> Maybe somebody has written a test runner plugin that does that? My quick 
>> searches didn't turn one up, though there is this, which could easily be 
>> adapted (not a plugin, and looks like it wants to be)
>> 
>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12227443/is-there-a-plugin-for-pylint-and-pyflakes-for-nose-tests 
>> 
>> 
>> John
>> _______________________________________________
>> python-uk mailing list
>> python-uk at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>
>
> I don't think it should be a test runner plugin, so much as just a test. 
> Maybe a big common utility function (in a pypi package) which a tiny custom 
> test function can then call to parametrize it for your project.

That works.  The reason I suggested a plugin was so that plugin hooks can 
give the coding style check function the modules (and scripts) on which to 
operate.


John

From feasty at gmail.com  Mon Sep 16 11:58:43 2013
From: feasty at gmail.com (Mark East)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 10:58:43 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Next Reading Python Dojo Tuesday 1st October
Message-ID: <5236D653.5040903@gmail.com>

Hi Guys,
The next Reading Python Dojo will be on Tuesday 1st October at the usual 
location, Austin Fraser. Please grab a ticket from the link below so we 
know how much pizza is needed:

https://rdgpydojo.eventwax.com/reading-python-dojo-october-2013

See you there (or at Pycon UK).

Cheers,
Mark

From groodt at gmail.com  Wed Sep 18 09:35:57 2013
From: groodt at gmail.com (Greg Roodt)
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 14:35:57 +0700
Subject: [python-uk] Django full-stack dev role with Silicon Milkroundabout
Message-ID: <CAAD3oiJja3T5k_vPDcGw7RY6ftX=0fCrHR=LsGOTdU_mjoBshw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

I don't normally post this kind of thing, but the good folks at Silicon
Milkroundabout are looking for a contract/permie Django full-stack dev.
You'll be their first real dev hire. No matter what your opinion of the the
cutesy Silicon Roundabout and London tech scene is, I do think that this is
a good event to showcase startups and to show new grads and jaded
developers that we don't all have to work for the banks (unless of course,
we want to).

You can see the details here:
http://siliconmilkroundabout.com/pages/about/join-us/

Cheers
Greg
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From michael at voidspace.org.uk  Wed Sep 18 12:17:13 2013
From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord)
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 11:17:13 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Lift back to Northampton after PyCon UK on Sunday
Message-ID: <DE457351-4F06-478A-B830-42F219A15FDC@voidspace.org.uk>

Hey folks,

Any of you wonderful people who are going to PyCon UK and returning on the Sunday, driving somewhere in the vicinity of Northampton - if so would you be willing and able to take me back with you? Replies off-list would be most welcome...

All of the best,

Michael Foord

--
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/


May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- the sqlite blessing 
http://www.sqlite.org/different.html






From markeganfuller at googlemail.com  Thu Sep 19 11:15:23 2013
From: markeganfuller at googlemail.com (Mark Egan-Fuller)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 10:15:23 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Pre PyConUK Drinks Tonight?
Message-ID: <CAGqAmZusFb+UuMCeWzKSDug4SGyyqn5gx6eOdviDYnZ6gvmsQA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm heading to Coventry tonight, is anyone else going to be around for some
Pre-Conference drinks?

Also for those familiar with the area, any good pub choices?



Mark Egan-Fuller
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From funthyme at gmail.com  Thu Sep 19 11:39:50 2013
From: funthyme at gmail.com (John Pinner)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 10:39:50 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Pre PyConUK Drinks Tonight?
In-Reply-To: <CAGqAmZusFb+UuMCeWzKSDug4SGyyqn5gx6eOdviDYnZ6gvmsQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGqAmZusFb+UuMCeWzKSDug4SGyyqn5gx6eOdviDYnZ6gvmsQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB-vKOSo-Z4yzz_FmifkBrv5eQmedKGO+XzUJ9_LWNdFHXSBEQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,

On 19 September 2013 10:15, Mark Egan-Fuller
<markeganfuller at googlemail.com> wrote:
> I'm heading to Coventry tonight, is anyone else going to be around for some
> Pre-Conference drinks?

I'm giving a LUG talk in Bham this evening, so won't be around :-(

> Also for those familiar with the area, any good pub choices?

In this area, there's only one choice really:

Whitefriars Old Ale House
114-115 Gosford Street
Coventry
CV15DL

There are some adjacent pubs best avoided as they are full of noisy
lager-drinking kids,

I suggest you bag an upstairs room.

It's one of the few remaining mediaeval buildings in Coventry, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitefriars,_Coventry and has a good
selection of ales.

It does not do food, except that it may have a selection of rolls and
sandwiches, but once they're gone, they're gone.

But the Oriental Palace, London Road, Coventry CV1 2JP, is not far
away from the venue and the Whitefriars, we've used it before and it
has a good all-you-can-eat menu.

See you tomorrow !

John
--

From d_chetwynd at fastmail.co.uk  Thu Sep 19 15:54:06 2013
From: d_chetwynd at fastmail.co.uk (Daley Chetwynd)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 14:54:06 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Next Python Sheffield meeting Tues Sept 24th
Message-ID: <1379598846.15225.23969961.219A29DB@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hi all,

The next Python Sheffield meeting will be on Tues Sept 24th at
ElectricWorks from 18:30 - 20:30. ElectricWorks is located opposite
Sheffield train station and next to the bus interchange. Entrance will
be via the rear entrance facing the bus interchange, not the front
entrance facing the train station and Sheaf Street:

http://electric-works.net/contact/

This month will have a single talk and then some coding. The talk will
be:

Daley Chetwynd (@dchetwynd) - "Experiences of PyCon UK 2013"

We'll then be dividing into pairs and doing some coding on Python Code
Golf:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_golf

Attendance is free. If you'd like to attend this meeting, try to bring
along a laptop with Python installed and register at:

https://plus.google.com/events/c23dsobpvq56t2laihsd3jl753s

The Python Sheffield group is open to all levels of Python user,
including those who don't currently know the Python language but would
like to learn. To find out more, follow @pysheff on Twitter or see the
Google group:

groups.google.com/group/python-sheffield

We're always looking for future speakers, so if you'd like to talk on
anything Python-related and fancy a trip over to Sheffield, please get
in touch.

Thanks,

Daley

-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - Same, same, but different...


From datainadequate at googlemail.com  Sat Sep 21 20:18:18 2013
From: datainadequate at googlemail.com (John)
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2013 19:18:18 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Lift back to Northampton after PyCon UK on Sunday
In-Reply-To: <DE457351-4F06-478A-B830-42F219A15FDC@voidspace.org.uk>
References: <DE457351-4F06-478A-B830-42F219A15FDC@voidspace.org.uk>
Message-ID: <CAGf-S5wx6-1WwCP05mHGD_XYmFiCyOeRmWUmewd-MmR3LLmyBA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm driving back to London down the M1, and would be happy to make a short
diversion to Northampton.

Cheers,

John Hoyland


On 18 September 2013 11:17, Michael Foord <michael at voidspace.org.uk> wrote:

> Hey folks,
>
> Any of you wonderful people who are going to PyCon UK and returning on the
> Sunday, driving somewhere in the vicinity of Northampton - if so would you
> be willing and able to take me back with you? Replies off-list would be
> most welcome...
>
> All of the best,
>
> Michael Foord
>
> --
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
>
>
> May you do good and not evil
> May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
> May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
> -- the sqlite blessing
> http://www.sqlite.org/different.html
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>
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From paul at starfishfilms.co.uk  Sun Sep 22 14:50:50 2013
From: paul at starfishfilms.co.uk (Paul Wilkins)
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 13:50:50 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Developer designer cto
Message-ID: <CE64A63A.112D7%paul@starfishfilms.co.uk>

Dear Pythonistas,

We have been boot-strapping an exciting discovery and recommendation
platform for the entertainment industry and seek the assistance of
 a smart and enthusiastic developer to complete the beta stage.


The development is Django-based with a Haystack search and a Tastypie api .
Can anyone out there help?

Many thanks

Paul 
------
paul wilkins
07768-840099
Www.starfishfilms.co.uk


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From paul at starfishfilms.co.uk  Tue Sep 24 11:32:06 2013
From: paul at starfishfilms.co.uk (Paul Wilkins)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 10:32:06 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Developer / tech architect for final sprint to beta..
Message-ID: <CE671AA6.11356%paul@starfishfilms.co.uk>

Dear All,


We have been boot-strapping an exciting discovery and recommendation
platform for the entertainment industry and seek the assistance of
 a smart and enthusiastic developer to complete the beta stage.


The development is Django-based with a Haystack search and a Tastypie api .
It would be good to discuss further with anyone who might be interested in
getting involved.
Preferably you will be based in london but that is not essential.
Many thanks

Paul 
------
paul wilkins
07768-840099
Www.starfishfilms.co.uk


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From tibs at tibsnjoan.co.uk  Tue Sep 24 22:21:18 2013
From: tibs at tibsnjoan.co.uk (Tony Ibbs)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 21:21:18 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Next Cambridge/East Anglia meeting: Tue 1st October
Message-ID: <8911F68C-BC93-4F1A-8397-235A921EDABE@tibsnjoan.co.uk>

From our google group:

The next meeting will be Tuesday 1st October, 7.30pm at RealVNC (http://tinyurl.com/realvncoffices). We normally stop about 9.30pm, and go on to the pub.

This will be a doing stuff meeting.

Meetings after that will be:

	? Tuesday 12th November, as Cambridge City Council are holding their fireworks celebration on Tuesday 5th November (see https://www.cambridge.gov.uk/fireworks). This will be a talks meeting
	? Tuesday 3rd December, another doing stuff meeting
	? and then into the New Year, with Tuesday 7th January 2014, a talks meeting
Tibs

From ntoll at ntoll.org  Tue Sep 24 23:23:31 2013
From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 22:23:31 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Post PyconUK wiki page for feedback, links,
	blog posts and slides
Message-ID: <524202D3.1030806@ntoll.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

... is here...

http://pyconuk.net/PostConf

N.
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From tom at viner.tv  Wed Sep 25 22:33:18 2013
From: tom at viner.tv (Tom Viner)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 21:33:18 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Trip to Bletchley Park
Message-ID: <CANBSuyHiLDy7iDB4MvTD7g2PyuXDjrBNnq8DQR9TvtvXSiym2A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

A few of us had a discussion at PyconUK about doing a trip to
Bletchley Park and the The National Museum of Computing.

Saturday, 19 Oct seemed to be the best option. Londoners could meet at
Euston Station and others could make their own way.

In terms of timing:

- Bletchley Park is open from 9.30am to 5.00pm
- The Museum of Computing is "Fully open 1-5pm; Colossus and Tunny
Galleries open all day"

So we could meet at say 10am and get the train there, potentially
using this national rail 2 for 1 offer:
http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/bletchley-park-(1)

More info:
http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/
http://www.tnmoc.org/

So put it in your calendar and I'll email again a week before with
specific meeting times etc.

Cheers,
Tom

@tomviner

From carles at pina.cat  Wed Sep 25 23:38:16 2013
From: carles at pina.cat (Carles Pina i Estany)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:38:16 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Trip to Bletchley Park
In-Reply-To: <CANBSuyHiLDy7iDB4MvTD7g2PyuXDjrBNnq8DQR9TvtvXSiym2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANBSuyHiLDy7iDB4MvTD7g2PyuXDjrBNnq8DQR9TvtvXSiym2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130925213816.GA31092@pina.cat>


Hi,

I'd love to go! But I'm away that weekend :-( (hiking in Ireland).

4 years living in London and I've been there 5 times. AMAZING place,
please do one of the guided tours, worth doing it.

So I hope to join another time :-)

If the weather is not too bad: get some picnic and eat outside.

Regards,

On Sep/25/2013, Tom Viner wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> A few of us had a discussion at PyconUK about doing a trip to
> Bletchley Park and the The National Museum of Computing.
> 
> Saturday, 19 Oct seemed to be the best option. Londoners could meet at
> Euston Station and others could make their own way.
> 
> In terms of timing:
> 
> - Bletchley Park is open from 9.30am to 5.00pm
> - The Museum of Computing is "Fully open 1-5pm; Colossus and Tunny
> Galleries open all day"
> 
> So we could meet at say 10am and get the train there, potentially
> using this national rail 2 for 1 offer:
> http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/bletchley-park-(1)
> 
> More info:
> http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/
> http://www.tnmoc.org/
> 
> So put it in your calendar and I'll email again a week before with
> specific meeting times etc.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom
> 
> @tomviner
> _______________________________________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
-- 
Carles Pina i Estany
	Web: http://pinux.info || Blog: http://pintant.cat

From ntoll at ntoll.org  Wed Sep 25 23:49:37 2013
From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:49:37 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Trip to Bletchley Park
In-Reply-To: <20130925213816.GA31092@pina.cat>
References: <CANBSuyHiLDy7iDB4MvTD7g2PyuXDjrBNnq8DQR9TvtvXSiym2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130925213816.GA31092@pina.cat>
Message-ID: <52435A71.4080409@ntoll.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I can't make it - I'm at PyconPL. A bit of a bugger since I live only
10 minutes drive away. :-/

N.

On 25/09/13 22:38, Carles Pina i Estany wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'd love to go! But I'm away that weekend :-( (hiking in Ireland).
> 
> 4 years living in London and I've been there 5 times. AMAZING
> place, please do one of the guided tours, worth doing it.
> 
> So I hope to join another time :-)
> 
> If the weather is not too bad: get some picnic and eat outside.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> On Sep/25/2013, Tom Viner wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> A few of us had a discussion at PyconUK about doing a trip to 
>> Bletchley Park and the The National Museum of Computing.
>> 
>> Saturday, 19 Oct seemed to be the best option. Londoners could
>> meet at Euston Station and others could make their own way.
>> 
>> In terms of timing:
>> 
>> - Bletchley Park is open from 9.30am to 5.00pm - The Museum of
>> Computing is "Fully open 1-5pm; Colossus and Tunny Galleries open
>> all day"
>> 
>> So we could meet at say 10am and get the train there,
>> potentially using this national rail 2 for 1 offer: 
>> http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/bletchley-park-(1)
>> 
>> More info: http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/ 
>> http://www.tnmoc.org/
>> 
>> So put it in your calendar and I'll email again a week before
>> with specific meeting times etc.
>> 
>> Cheers, Tom
>> 
>> @tomviner _______________________________________________ 
>> python-uk mailing list python-uk at python.org 
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk

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From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Thu Sep 26 09:41:10 2013
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 08:41:10 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Trip to Bletchley Park
In-Reply-To: <CANBSuyHiLDy7iDB4MvTD7g2PyuXDjrBNnq8DQR9TvtvXSiym2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANBSuyHiLDy7iDB4MvTD7g2PyuXDjrBNnq8DQR9TvtvXSiym2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5243E516.80507@timgolden.me.uk>

I'm tied up with a Boys' Club on Saturdays but I definitely encourage
anyone to go who hasn't. Aside from the mainstream attractions of the
Enigma / Codebreaking stuff and the NMOC, there's also a charmingly
eclectic mixture of side exhibitions: a museum of wartime pigeons; the
local model railway enthusiasts; a dusty garage of vintage cars; model
ships made by a local club; someone's toy collection; the on-site
wartime Post Office.

And it's all run by fans who are delighted to talk.

Definitely go if you haven't already. (And if you have).

TJG

On 25/09/2013 21:33, Tom Viner wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> A few of us had a discussion at PyconUK about doing a trip to
> Bletchley Park and the The National Museum of Computing.
> 
> Saturday, 19 Oct seemed to be the best option. Londoners could meet at
> Euston Station and others could make their own way.
> 
> In terms of timing:
> 
> - Bletchley Park is open from 9.30am to 5.00pm
> - The Museum of Computing is "Fully open 1-5pm; Colossus and Tunny
> Galleries open all day"
> 
> So we could meet at say 10am and get the train there, potentially
> using this national rail 2 for 1 offer:
> http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/bletchley-park-(1)
> 
> More info:
> http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/
> http://www.tnmoc.org/
> 
> So put it in your calendar and I'll email again a week before with
> specific meeting times etc.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom
> 
> @tomviner
> _______________________________________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> 


From lvisintini at gmail.com  Thu Sep 26 12:01:45 2013
From: lvisintini at gmail.com (Luis Visintini)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 11:01:45 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Trip to Bletchley Park
In-Reply-To: <5243E516.80507@timgolden.me.uk>
References: <CANBSuyHiLDy7iDB4MvTD7g2PyuXDjrBNnq8DQR9TvtvXSiym2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <5243E516.80507@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <CADij_+oQh+yB=QRQCb_0k+An8=a3K93X+f41TDraaYg35sWaOQ@mail.gmail.com>

I can make it no problem.
count me in

Luis


On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 8:41 AM, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:

> I'm tied up with a Boys' Club on Saturdays but I definitely encourage
> anyone to go who hasn't. Aside from the mainstream attractions of the
> Enigma / Codebreaking stuff and the NMOC, there's also a charmingly
> eclectic mixture of side exhibitions: a museum of wartime pigeons; the
> local model railway enthusiasts; a dusty garage of vintage cars; model
> ships made by a local club; someone's toy collection; the on-site
> wartime Post Office.
>
> And it's all run by fans who are delighted to talk.
>
> Definitely go if you haven't already. (And if you have).
>
> TJG
>
> On 25/09/2013 21:33, Tom Viner wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > A few of us had a discussion at PyconUK about doing a trip to
> > Bletchley Park and the The National Museum of Computing.
> >
> > Saturday, 19 Oct seemed to be the best option. Londoners could meet at
> > Euston Station and others could make their own way.
> >
> > In terms of timing:
> >
> > - Bletchley Park is open from 9.30am to 5.00pm
> > - The Museum of Computing is "Fully open 1-5pm; Colossus and Tunny
> > Galleries open all day"
> >
> > So we could meet at say 10am and get the train there, potentially
> > using this national rail 2 for 1 offer:
> > http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/bletchley-park-(1)
> >
> > More info:
> > http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/
> > http://www.tnmoc.org/
> >
> > So put it in your calendar and I'll email again a week before with
> > specific meeting times etc.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Tom
> >
> > @tomviner
> > _______________________________________________
> > python-uk mailing list
> > python-uk at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>
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From markeganfuller at googlemail.com  Thu Sep 26 12:46:39 2013
From: markeganfuller at googlemail.com (Mark Egan-Fuller)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 11:46:39 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] python-uk Digest, Vol 121, Issue 19
In-Reply-To: <mailman.34.1380189603.5911.python-uk@python.org>
References: <mailman.34.1380189603.5911.python-uk@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAGqAmZtPhoOPb6RwChCk5z1EwF0T-XLXvK7cmDu-f=FRRooa_A@mail.gmail.com>

I'm up for this.


Mark Egan-Fuller


On 26 September 2013 11:00, <python-uk-request at python.org> wrote:

> Send python-uk mailing list submissions to
>         python-uk at python.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         python-uk-request at python.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         python-uk-owner at python.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of python-uk digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Trip to Bletchley Park (Tom Viner)
>    2. Re: Trip to Bletchley Park (Carles Pina i Estany)
>    3. Re: Trip to Bletchley Park (Nicholas H.Tollervey)
>    4. Re: Trip to Bletchley Park (Tim Golden)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Tom Viner <tom at viner.tv>
> To: python-uk at python.org
> Cc:
> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 21:33:18 +0100
> Subject: [python-uk] Trip to Bletchley Park
> Hi all,
>
> A few of us had a discussion at PyconUK about doing a trip to
> Bletchley Park and the The National Museum of Computing.
>
> Saturday, 19 Oct seemed to be the best option. Londoners could meet at
> Euston Station and others could make their own way.
>
> In terms of timing:
>
> - Bletchley Park is open from 9.30am to 5.00pm
> - The Museum of Computing is "Fully open 1-5pm; Colossus and Tunny
> Galleries open all day"
>
> So we could meet at say 10am and get the train there, potentially
> using this national rail 2 for 1 offer:
> http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/bletchley-park-(1)
>
> More info:
> http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/
> http://www.tnmoc.org/
>
> So put it in your calendar and I'll email again a week before with
> specific meeting times etc.
>
> Cheers,
> Tom
>
> @tomviner
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Carles Pina i Estany <carles at pina.cat>
> To: UK Python Users <python-uk at python.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:38:16 +0100
> Subject: Re: [python-uk] Trip to Bletchley Park
>
> Hi,
>
> I'd love to go! But I'm away that weekend :-( (hiking in Ireland).
>
> 4 years living in London and I've been there 5 times. AMAZING place,
> please do one of the guided tours, worth doing it.
>
> So I hope to join another time :-)
>
> If the weather is not too bad: get some picnic and eat outside.
>
> Regards,
>
> On Sep/25/2013, Tom Viner wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > A few of us had a discussion at PyconUK about doing a trip to
> > Bletchley Park and the The National Museum of Computing.
> >
> > Saturday, 19 Oct seemed to be the best option. Londoners could meet at
> > Euston Station and others could make their own way.
> >
> > In terms of timing:
> >
> > - Bletchley Park is open from 9.30am to 5.00pm
> > - The Museum of Computing is "Fully open 1-5pm; Colossus and Tunny
> > Galleries open all day"
> >
> > So we could meet at say 10am and get the train there, potentially
> > using this national rail 2 for 1 offer:
> > http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/bletchley-park-(1)
> >
> > More info:
> > http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/
> > http://www.tnmoc.org/
> >
> > So put it in your calendar and I'll email again a week before with
> > specific meeting times etc.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Tom
> >
> > @tomviner
> > _______________________________________________
> > python-uk mailing list
> > python-uk at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> --
> Carles Pina i Estany
>         Web: http://pinux.info || Blog: http://pintant.cat
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Nicholas H.Tollervey" <ntoll at ntoll.org>
> To: python-uk at python.org
> Cc:
> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:49:37 +0100
> Subject: Re: [python-uk] Trip to Bletchley Park
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> I can't make it - I'm at PyconPL. A bit of a bugger since I live only
> 10 minutes drive away. :-/
>
> N.
>
> On 25/09/13 22:38, Carles Pina i Estany wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'd love to go! But I'm away that weekend :-( (hiking in Ireland).
> >
> > 4 years living in London and I've been there 5 times. AMAZING
> > place, please do one of the guided tours, worth doing it.
> >
> > So I hope to join another time :-)
> >
> > If the weather is not too bad: get some picnic and eat outside.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > On Sep/25/2013, Tom Viner wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> A few of us had a discussion at PyconUK about doing a trip to
> >> Bletchley Park and the The National Museum of Computing.
> >>
> >> Saturday, 19 Oct seemed to be the best option. Londoners could
> >> meet at Euston Station and others could make their own way.
> >>
> >> In terms of timing:
> >>
> >> - Bletchley Park is open from 9.30am to 5.00pm - The Museum of
> >> Computing is "Fully open 1-5pm; Colossus and Tunny Galleries open
> >> all day"
> >>
> >> So we could meet at say 10am and get the train there,
> >> potentially using this national rail 2 for 1 offer:
> >> http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/bletchley-park-(1)
> >>
> >> More info: http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/
> >> http://www.tnmoc.org/
> >>
> >> So put it in your calendar and I'll email again a week before
> >> with specific meeting times etc.
> >>
> >> Cheers, Tom
> >>
> >> @tomviner _______________________________________________
> >> python-uk mailing list python-uk at python.org
> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Icedove - http://www.enigmail.net/
>
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> =Qoue
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk>
> To: UK Python Users <python-uk at python.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 08:41:10 +0100
> Subject: Re: [python-uk] Trip to Bletchley Park
> I'm tied up with a Boys' Club on Saturdays but I definitely encourage
> anyone to go who hasn't. Aside from the mainstream attractions of the
> Enigma / Codebreaking stuff and the NMOC, there's also a charmingly
> eclectic mixture of side exhibitions: a museum of wartime pigeons; the
> local model railway enthusiasts; a dusty garage of vintage cars; model
> ships made by a local club; someone's toy collection; the on-site
> wartime Post Office.
>
> And it's all run by fans who are delighted to talk.
>
> Definitely go if you haven't already. (And if you have).
>
> TJG
>
> On 25/09/2013 21:33, Tom Viner wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > A few of us had a discussion at PyconUK about doing a trip to
> > Bletchley Park and the The National Museum of Computing.
> >
> > Saturday, 19 Oct seemed to be the best option. Londoners could meet at
> > Euston Station and others could make their own way.
> >
> > In terms of timing:
> >
> > - Bletchley Park is open from 9.30am to 5.00pm
> > - The Museum of Computing is "Fully open 1-5pm; Colossus and Tunny
> > Galleries open all day"
> >
> > So we could meet at say 10am and get the train there, potentially
> > using this national rail 2 for 1 offer:
> > http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/bletchley-park-(1)
> >
> > More info:
> > http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/
> > http://www.tnmoc.org/
> >
> > So put it in your calendar and I'll email again a week before with
> > specific meeting times etc.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Tom
> >
> > @tomviner
> > _______________________________________________
> > python-uk mailing list
> > python-uk at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>
>
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From dave.snowdon at gmail.com  Thu Sep 26 14:24:57 2013
From: dave.snowdon at gmail.com (David Nicholas Snowdon)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 13:24:57 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Trip to Bletchley Park
In-Reply-To: <CADij_+oQh+yB=QRQCb_0k+An8=a3K93X+f41TDraaYg35sWaOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANBSuyHiLDy7iDB4MvTD7g2PyuXDjrBNnq8DQR9TvtvXSiym2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <5243E516.80507@timgolden.me.uk>
 <CADij_+oQh+yB=QRQCb_0k+An8=a3K93X+f41TDraaYg35sWaOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45164B9C-E8ED-4DC0-BC70-C261B66F7872@gmail.com>

Count me in too.
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On 26 Sep 2013, at 11:01, Luis Visintini <lvisintini at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I can make it no problem.
> count me in
> 
> Luis
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 8:41 AM, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
>> I'm tied up with a Boys' Club on Saturdays but I definitely encourage
>> anyone to go who hasn't. Aside from the mainstream attractions of the
>> Enigma / Codebreaking stuff and the NMOC, there's also a charmingly
>> eclectic mixture of side exhibitions: a museum of wartime pigeons; the
>> local model railway enthusiasts; a dusty garage of vintage cars; model
>> ships made by a local club; someone's toy collection; the on-site
>> wartime Post Office.
>> 
>> And it's all run by fans who are delighted to talk.
>> 
>> Definitely go if you haven't already. (And if you have).
>> 
>> TJG
>> 
>> On 25/09/2013 21:33, Tom Viner wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > A few of us had a discussion at PyconUK about doing a trip to
>> > Bletchley Park and the The National Museum of Computing.
>> >
>> > Saturday, 19 Oct seemed to be the best option. Londoners could meet at
>> > Euston Station and others could make their own way.
>> >
>> > In terms of timing:
>> >
>> > - Bletchley Park is open from 9.30am to 5.00pm
>> > - The Museum of Computing is "Fully open 1-5pm; Colossus and Tunny
>> > Galleries open all day"
>> >
>> > So we could meet at say 10am and get the train there, potentially
>> > using this national rail 2 for 1 offer:
>> > http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/bletchley-park-(1)
>> >
>> > More info:
>> > http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/
>> > http://www.tnmoc.org/
>> >
>> > So put it in your calendar and I'll email again a week before with
>> > specific meeting times etc.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Tom
>> >
>> > @tomviner
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > python-uk mailing list
>> > python-uk at python.org
>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>> >
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> python-uk mailing list
>> python-uk at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> 
> _______________________________________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
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From jonathan.fine1 at googlemail.com  Thu Sep 26 15:37:21 2013
From: jonathan.fine1 at googlemail.com (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:37:21 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Trip to Bletchley Park
In-Reply-To: <45164B9C-E8ED-4DC0-BC70-C261B66F7872@gmail.com>
References: <CANBSuyHiLDy7iDB4MvTD7g2PyuXDjrBNnq8DQR9TvtvXSiym2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <5243E516.80507@timgolden.me.uk>
 <CADij_+oQh+yB=QRQCb_0k+An8=a3K93X+f41TDraaYg35sWaOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <45164B9C-E8ED-4DC0-BC70-C261B66F7872@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALL6Gp6oZ2okpYB8nzRR5gUPJm5=tsd0PHBoPSWFkUXXwKz_XA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm interested, and live locally, so I can cycle there. Bletchley Park is
walking distance from Bletchley rail station, so it's much better to get a
train to there than to Milton Keynes Central.

By the way, Bletchley Park was chosen in part because of its closeness to
the rail station, and to GPO communication lines.


Jonathan


On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 1:24 PM, David Nicholas Snowdon <
dave.snowdon at gmail.com> wrote:

> Count me in too.
> Dave
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 26 Sep 2013, at 11:01, Luis Visintini <lvisintini at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I can make it no problem.
> count me in
>
> Luis
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 8:41 AM, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> I'm tied up with a Boys' Club on Saturdays but I definitely encourage
>> anyone to go who hasn't. Aside from the mainstream attractions of the
>> Enigma / Codebreaking stuff and the NMOC, there's also a charmingly
>> eclectic mixture of side exhibitions: a museum of wartime pigeons; the
>> local model railway enthusiasts; a dusty garage of vintage cars; model
>> ships made by a local club; someone's toy collection; the on-site
>> wartime Post Office.
>>
>> And it's all run by fans who are delighted to talk.
>>
>> Definitely go if you haven't already. (And if you have).
>>
>> TJG
>>
>> On 25/09/2013 21:33, Tom Viner wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > A few of us had a discussion at PyconUK about doing a trip to
>> > Bletchley Park and the The National Museum of Computing.
>> >
>> > Saturday, 19 Oct seemed to be the best option. Londoners could meet at
>> > Euston Station and others could make their own way.
>> >
>> > In terms of timing:
>> >
>> > - Bletchley Park is open from 9.30am to 5.00pm
>> > - The Museum of Computing is "Fully open 1-5pm; Colossus and Tunny
>> > Galleries open all day"
>> >
>> > So we could meet at say 10am and get the train there, potentially
>> > using this national rail 2 for 1 offer:
>> > http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/bletchley-park-(1)
>> >
>> > More info:
>> > http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/
>> > http://www.tnmoc.org/
>> >
>> > So put it in your calendar and I'll email again a week before with
>> > specific meeting times etc.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Tom
>> >
>> > @tomviner
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > python-uk mailing list
>> > python-uk at python.org
>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> python-uk mailing list
>> python-uk at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>
>
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From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Thu Sep 26 15:41:42 2013
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:41:42 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Trip to Bletchley Park
In-Reply-To: <CALL6Gp6oZ2okpYB8nzRR5gUPJm5=tsd0PHBoPSWFkUXXwKz_XA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANBSuyHiLDy7iDB4MvTD7g2PyuXDjrBNnq8DQR9TvtvXSiym2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <5243E516.80507@timgolden.me.uk>
 <CADij_+oQh+yB=QRQCb_0k+An8=a3K93X+f41TDraaYg35sWaOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <45164B9C-E8ED-4DC0-BC70-C261B66F7872@gmail.com>
 <CALL6Gp6oZ2okpYB8nzRR5gUPJm5=tsd0PHBoPSWFkUXXwKz_XA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52443996.2060107@timgolden.me.uk>

... which was of course at the time part of the Oxford-Cambridge line,
considered important for the work of BP:

  http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/v/verney_junction/

(There are probably better links; I didn't search very hard).

Geeks + Railways: what a heady mix!

TJG

On 26/09/2013 14:37, Jonathan Fine wrote:
> I'm interested, and live locally, so I can cycle there. Bletchley Park
> is walking distance from Bletchley rail station, so it's much better to
> get a train to there than to Milton Keynes Central.
> 
> By the way, Bletchley Park was chosen in part because of its closeness
> to the rail station, and to GPO communication lines.
> 
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 1:24 PM, David Nicholas Snowdon
> <dave.snowdon at gmail.com <mailto:dave.snowdon at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Count me in too.
>     Dave
> 
>     Sent from my iPhone
> 
>     On 26 Sep 2013, at 11:01, Luis Visintini <lvisintini at gmail.com
>     <mailto:lvisintini at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>>     I can make it no problem.
>>     count me in
>>
>>     Luis
>>
>>
>>     On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 8:41 AM, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk
>>     <mailto:mail at timgolden.me.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>         I'm tied up with a Boys' Club on Saturdays but I definitely
>>         encourage
>>         anyone to go who hasn't. Aside from the mainstream attractions
>>         of the
>>         Enigma / Codebreaking stuff and the NMOC, there's also a
>>         charmingly
>>         eclectic mixture of side exhibitions: a museum of wartime
>>         pigeons; the
>>         local model railway enthusiasts; a dusty garage of vintage
>>         cars; model
>>         ships made by a local club; someone's toy collection; the on-site
>>         wartime Post Office.
>>
>>         And it's all run by fans who are delighted to talk.
>>
>>         Definitely go if you haven't already. (And if you have).
>>
>>         TJG
>>
>>         On 25/09/2013 21:33, Tom Viner wrote:
>>         > Hi all,
>>         >
>>         > A few of us had a discussion at PyconUK about doing a trip to
>>         > Bletchley Park and the The National Museum of Computing.
>>         >
>>         > Saturday, 19 Oct seemed to be the best option. Londoners
>>         could meet at
>>         > Euston Station and others could make their own way.
>>         >
>>         > In terms of timing:
>>         >
>>         > - Bletchley Park is open from 9.30am to 5.00pm
>>         > - The Museum of Computing is "Fully open 1-5pm; Colossus and
>>         Tunny
>>         > Galleries open all day"
>>         >
>>         > So we could meet at say 10am and get the train there,
>>         potentially
>>         > using this national rail 2 for 1 offer:
>>         > http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/bletchley-park-(1)
>>         >
>>         > More info:
>>         > http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/
>>         > http://www.tnmoc.org/
>>         >
>>         > So put it in your calendar and I'll email again a week
>>         before with
>>         > specific meeting times etc.
>>         >
>>         > Cheers,
>>         > Tom
>>         >
>>         > @tomviner
>>         > _______________________________________________
>>         > python-uk mailing list
>>         > python-uk at python.org <mailto:python-uk at python.org>
>>         > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>>         >
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         python-uk mailing list
>>         python-uk at python.org <mailto:python-uk at python.org>
>>         https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     python-uk mailing list
>>     python-uk at python.org <mailto:python-uk at python.org>
>>     https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     python-uk mailing list
>     python-uk at python.org <mailto:python-uk at python.org>
>     https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> 


From colin.moore.hill at mazota.com  Thu Sep 26 00:16:23 2013
From: colin.moore.hill at mazota.com (colin.moore.hill)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 23:16:23 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Trip to Bletchley Park
Message-ID: <ijh52qr13lfxtorbtk8lfptp.1380147383206@email.android.com>

Cool idea. But have used up my brownie points for this month.
:'( enjoy.
?its excelent was there for the whole weekend last year.


Sent from Galaxy S3 on Three

-------- Original message --------
From: Tom Viner <tom at viner.tv> 
Date:  
To: python-uk at python.org 
Subject: [python-uk] Trip to Bletchley Park 
 
Hi all,

A few of us had a discussion at PyconUK about doing a trip to
Bletchley Park and the The National Museum of Computing.

Saturday, 19 Oct seemed to be the best option. Londoners could meet at
Euston Station and others could make their own way.

In terms of timing:

- Bletchley Park is open from 9.30am to 5.00pm
- The Museum of Computing is "Fully open 1-5pm; Colossus and Tunny
Galleries open all day"

So we could meet at say 10am and get the train there, potentially
using this national rail 2 for 1 offer:
http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/bletchley-park-(1)

More info:
http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/
http://www.tnmoc.org/

So put it in your calendar and I'll email again a week before with
specific meeting times etc.

Cheers,
Tom

@tomviner
_______________________________________________
python-uk mailing list
python-uk at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
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From tehunger at gmail.com  Fri Sep 27 12:10:41 2013
From: tehunger at gmail.com (Thomas Hunger)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:10:41 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Trip to Bletchley Park
In-Reply-To: <52443996.2060107@timgolden.me.uk>
References: <CANBSuyHiLDy7iDB4MvTD7g2PyuXDjrBNnq8DQR9TvtvXSiym2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <5243E516.80507@timgolden.me.uk>
 <CADij_+oQh+yB=QRQCb_0k+An8=a3K93X+f41TDraaYg35sWaOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <45164B9C-E8ED-4DC0-BC70-C261B66F7872@gmail.com>
 <CALL6Gp6oZ2okpYB8nzRR5gUPJm5=tsd0PHBoPSWFkUXXwKz_XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <52443996.2060107@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPw-HwkBrxjw1Ffh8X8Z5RsuyQzGtwTT2svDuxDW-cuixtEVcQ@mail.gmail.com>

That's a great idea, Tom. I'm in.


On 26 September 2013 14:41, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:

> ... which was of course at the time part of the Oxford-Cambridge line,
> considered important for the work of BP:
>
>   http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/v/verney_junction/
>
> (There are probably better links; I didn't search very hard).
>
> Geeks + Railways: what a heady mix!
>
> TJG
>
> On 26/09/2013 14:37, Jonathan Fine wrote:
> > I'm interested, and live locally, so I can cycle there. Bletchley Park
> > is walking distance from Bletchley rail station, so it's much better to
> > get a train to there than to Milton Keynes Central.
> >
> > By the way, Bletchley Park was chosen in part because of its closeness
> > to the rail station, and to GPO communication lines.
> >
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 1:24 PM, David Nicholas Snowdon
> > <dave.snowdon at gmail.com <mailto:dave.snowdon at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     Count me in too.
> >     Dave
> >
> >     Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >     On 26 Sep 2013, at 11:01, Luis Visintini <lvisintini at gmail.com
> >     <mailto:lvisintini at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >>     I can make it no problem.
> >>     count me in
> >>
> >>     Luis
> >>
> >>
> >>     On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 8:41 AM, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk
> >>     <mailto:mail at timgolden.me.uk>> wrote:
> >>
> >>         I'm tied up with a Boys' Club on Saturdays but I definitely
> >>         encourage
> >>         anyone to go who hasn't. Aside from the mainstream attractions
> >>         of the
> >>         Enigma / Codebreaking stuff and the NMOC, there's also a
> >>         charmingly
> >>         eclectic mixture of side exhibitions: a museum of wartime
> >>         pigeons; the
> >>         local model railway enthusiasts; a dusty garage of vintage
> >>         cars; model
> >>         ships made by a local club; someone's toy collection; the
> on-site
> >>         wartime Post Office.
> >>
> >>         And it's all run by fans who are delighted to talk.
> >>
> >>         Definitely go if you haven't already. (And if you have).
> >>
> >>         TJG
> >>
> >>         On 25/09/2013 21:33, Tom Viner wrote:
> >>         > Hi all,
> >>         >
> >>         > A few of us had a discussion at PyconUK about doing a trip to
> >>         > Bletchley Park and the The National Museum of Computing.
> >>         >
> >>         > Saturday, 19 Oct seemed to be the best option. Londoners
> >>         could meet at
> >>         > Euston Station and others could make their own way.
> >>         >
> >>         > In terms of timing:
> >>         >
> >>         > - Bletchley Park is open from 9.30am to 5.00pm
> >>         > - The Museum of Computing is "Fully open 1-5pm; Colossus and
> >>         Tunny
> >>         > Galleries open all day"
> >>         >
> >>         > So we could meet at say 10am and get the train there,
> >>         potentially
> >>         > using this national rail 2 for 1 offer:
> >>         > http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/bletchley-park-(1)
> >>         >
> >>         > More info:
> >>         > http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/
> >>         > http://www.tnmoc.org/
> >>         >
> >>         > So put it in your calendar and I'll email again a week
> >>         before with
> >>         > specific meeting times etc.
> >>         >
> >>         > Cheers,
> >>         > Tom
> >>         >
> >>         > @tomviner
> >>         > _______________________________________________
> >>         > python-uk mailing list
> >>         > python-uk at python.org <mailto:python-uk at python.org>
> >>         > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> >>         >
> >>
> >>         _______________________________________________
> >>         python-uk mailing list
> >>         python-uk at python.org <mailto:python-uk at python.org>
> >>         https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> >>
> >>
> >>     _______________________________________________
> >>     python-uk mailing list
> >>     python-uk at python.org <mailto:python-uk at python.org>
> >>     https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     python-uk mailing list
> >     python-uk at python.org <mailto:python-uk at python.org>
> >     https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > python-uk mailing list
> > python-uk at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>
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From ghayoun at gmail.com  Fri Sep 27 15:27:37 2013
From: ghayoun at gmail.com (Gautier HAYOUN)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 14:27:37 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Trip to Bletchley Park
In-Reply-To: <CAPw-HwkBrxjw1Ffh8X8Z5RsuyQzGtwTT2svDuxDW-cuixtEVcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANBSuyHiLDy7iDB4MvTD7g2PyuXDjrBNnq8DQR9TvtvXSiym2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <5243E516.80507@timgolden.me.uk>
 <CADij_+oQh+yB=QRQCb_0k+An8=a3K93X+f41TDraaYg35sWaOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <45164B9C-E8ED-4DC0-BC70-C261B66F7872@gmail.com>
 <CALL6Gp6oZ2okpYB8nzRR5gUPJm5=tsd0PHBoPSWFkUXXwKz_XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <52443996.2060107@timgolden.me.uk>
 <CAPw-HwkBrxjw1Ffh8X8Z5RsuyQzGtwTT2svDuxDW-cuixtEVcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOZBAa9mJHj-DqCOGp=MKGOhQ8pr-M0Lr-mRjXg9GE1oURUCnA@mail.gmail.com>

I'll come too!

On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Thomas Hunger <tehunger at gmail.com> wrote:
> That's a great idea, Tom. I'm in.
>
>
> On 26 September 2013 14:41, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ... which was of course at the time part of the Oxford-Cambridge line,
>> considered important for the work of BP:
>>
>>   http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/v/verney_junction/
>>
>> (There are probably better links; I didn't search very hard).
>>
>> Geeks + Railways: what a heady mix!
>>
>> TJG
>>
>> On 26/09/2013 14:37, Jonathan Fine wrote:
>> > I'm interested, and live locally, so I can cycle there. Bletchley Park
>> > is walking distance from Bletchley rail station, so it's much better to
>> > get a train to there than to Milton Keynes Central.
>> >
>> > By the way, Bletchley Park was chosen in part because of its closeness
>> > to the rail station, and to GPO communication lines.
>> >
>> >
>> > Jonathan
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 1:24 PM, David Nicholas Snowdon
>> > <dave.snowdon at gmail.com <mailto:dave.snowdon at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> >     Count me in too.
>> >     Dave
>> >
>> >     Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >     On 26 Sep 2013, at 11:01, Luis Visintini <lvisintini at gmail.com
>> >     <mailto:lvisintini at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> >>     I can make it no problem.
>> >>     count me in
>> >>
>> >>     Luis
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>     On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 8:41 AM, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk
>> >>     <mailto:mail at timgolden.me.uk>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>         I'm tied up with a Boys' Club on Saturdays but I definitely
>> >>         encourage
>> >>         anyone to go who hasn't. Aside from the mainstream attractions
>> >>         of the
>> >>         Enigma / Codebreaking stuff and the NMOC, there's also a
>> >>         charmingly
>> >>         eclectic mixture of side exhibitions: a museum of wartime
>> >>         pigeons; the
>> >>         local model railway enthusiasts; a dusty garage of vintage
>> >>         cars; model
>> >>         ships made by a local club; someone's toy collection; the
>> >> on-site
>> >>         wartime Post Office.
>> >>
>> >>         And it's all run by fans who are delighted to talk.
>> >>
>> >>         Definitely go if you haven't already. (And if you have).
>> >>
>> >>         TJG
>> >>
>> >>         On 25/09/2013 21:33, Tom Viner wrote:
>> >>         > Hi all,
>> >>         >
>> >>         > A few of us had a discussion at PyconUK about doing a trip to
>> >>         > Bletchley Park and the The National Museum of Computing.
>> >>         >
>> >>         > Saturday, 19 Oct seemed to be the best option. Londoners
>> >>         could meet at
>> >>         > Euston Station and others could make their own way.
>> >>         >
>> >>         > In terms of timing:
>> >>         >
>> >>         > - Bletchley Park is open from 9.30am to 5.00pm
>> >>         > - The Museum of Computing is "Fully open 1-5pm; Colossus and
>> >>         Tunny
>> >>         > Galleries open all day"
>> >>         >
>> >>         > So we could meet at say 10am and get the train there,
>> >>         potentially
>> >>         > using this national rail 2 for 1 offer:
>> >>         > http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/bletchley-park-(1)
>> >>         >
>> >>         > More info:
>> >>         > http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/
>> >>         > http://www.tnmoc.org/
>> >>         >
>> >>         > So put it in your calendar and I'll email again a week
>> >>         before with
>> >>         > specific meeting times etc.
>> >>         >
>> >>         > Cheers,
>> >>         > Tom
>> >>         >
>> >>         > @tomviner
>> >>         > _______________________________________________
>> >>         > python-uk mailing list
>> >>         > python-uk at python.org <mailto:python-uk at python.org>
>> >>         > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>> >>         >
>> >>
>> >>         _______________________________________________
>> >>         python-uk mailing list
>> >>         python-uk at python.org <mailto:python-uk at python.org>
>> >>         https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>     _______________________________________________
>> >>     python-uk mailing list
>> >>     python-uk at python.org <mailto:python-uk at python.org>
>> >>     https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>> >
>> >     _______________________________________________
>> >     python-uk mailing list
>> >     python-uk at python.org <mailto:python-uk at python.org>
>> >     https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > python-uk mailing list
>> > python-uk at python.org
>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> python-uk mailing list
>> python-uk at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-uk mailing list
> python-uk at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>

From ntoll at ntoll.org  Sat Sep 28 16:44:07 2013
From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey)
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 15:44:07 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Python community participation in Raspberry Jamboree in
	February
Message-ID: <5246EB37.7030808@ntoll.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Folks,

Our esteemed fellow Pythonista and teacher Mr.Alan O'Donohoe (cc'd) is
organising yet another *epic* Raspberry Jamboree at the end of
February. Given the amount of interest from Pythonistas at PyconUK
about matters educational *I* wanted to make you all aware of this
event and possible ways in which you could contribute.

I'm sure you remember the wonderful energy that was Sunday's Raspberry
Jam (run by Alan) - just think of the Raspbery Jamboree as a meta-jam:
a way for teachers, educators, technology professionals, programmers
and students to all come together and share, demonstrate and take part
in technical educational activities (usually connected with the
RaspberryPi).

More details here:

https://rjamboree14.eventbrite.co.uk/

I'm sure that if you contact Alan directly he'll be happy to answer
any questions you may have.

N.
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From daniele at vurt.org  Sun Sep 29 15:29:09 2013
From: daniele at vurt.org (Daniele Procida)
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 14:29:09 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] Cardiff Django users group
Message-ID: <20130929132909.1472534736@smtp.ntlworld.com>

I'm starting a user group for Django developers in Cardiff.

The plan is to hold meetings monthly, probably on a Wednesday evening with occasional events on weekends. 

I'm trying to get a suitable venue with good wireless access organised at Cardiff University, but there are other options.

Email list: <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/django-cardiff>. You don't need to have a Google account to subscribe to the email list; it's possible to subscribe at <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/django-cardiff/join>.

Daniele


From tom at viner.tv  Mon Sep 30 00:04:30 2013
From: tom at viner.tv (Tom Viner)
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 23:04:30 +0100
Subject: [python-uk] London Dojo this Thursday at BAML
Message-ID: <CANBSuyGnbR-xCP=o1Fua-K-oEjJEbuKyRBP4D9bLTPFHAOR1Gw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

For October's London dojo we'll be back at the Bank of America.

We'll have pizza, drinks and all the group coding you can imagine.

There'll also be the prize draw for a random O'Reilly Python book as usual.

Get your tickets while they're hot:
https://ldnpydojo.eventwax.com/london-python-code-dojo-season-5-episode-2

If you need any more information, contact the team via Twitter:
@ldnpydojo or via email team at ldnpydojo.org.uk .

Look forward to seeing you all on Thursday.

Tom
@tomviner