From brett at python.org  Tue Dec  2 16:34:56 2014
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2014 15:34:56 +0000
Subject: [Python-porting] Using speechd
References: <AF85FA4068DAC742BDD67ACA4569821B2FF80349@S11ASHDAG001N3.sh11.lan>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W4Skuk=incbfeRGZjw_Dq3i+ES368Yzw5g18Nen_qKTag@mail.gmail.com>

I assume you're talking about
https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/python-speechd which looks like it has
not been ported to Python 3. I would reach out to the developers and ask
them when they plan on supporting Python 3.

On Mon Dec 01 2014 at 1:12:20 PM Michael Cooper <mcooper at krsearch.net>
wrote:

>  I am using Python 3.4.1 with Idle 3.4.1.  speechd seems to have
> disappeared.  Found solutions to a similar issue on google, but solution
> does not work for me.  When I reference speech I get an error indicating
> the module does not exist.  Is that a transition issue from 2 to 3?  Cannot
> find others with a similar issue, except the one - the suggested solution
> was he upgrade to Idle3, which worked for him, but not me.  Any help or
> direction?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> *Michael Cooper*
>
> USA
>
> [image: cid:image001.png at 01CFA0DC.ED484720]
>
> *+1 480 924 1220*  O.
>
> *+1 602 510 6633 * M.
>
> mcooper at KRsearch.net
>
> www.KRsearch.com
>
>
>
> *We recruit leaders for organizations that feed the world and keep it
> healthy.*
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> Python-porting mailing list
> Python-porting at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-porting
>
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From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 15:06:58 2014
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 09:06:58 -0500
Subject: [Python-porting] future(ize) question
Message-ID: <m6esq2$kv6$1@ger.gmane.org>

I have code that has been run through a (several versions old) futurize.

Can/should I try to futurize it again now that I have a newer version of 
future/futurize?  Is this even possible?  

-- 
-- Those who don't understand recursion are doomed to repeat it


From regebro at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 16:38:31 2014
From: regebro at gmail.com (Lennart Regebro)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 16:38:31 +0100
Subject: [Python-porting] future(ize) question
In-Reply-To: <m6esq2$kv6$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <m6esq2$kv6$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAL0kPAX2Yt52uzhmV2h-m40pj8E4xy0bVpo3EQnfyeZrsZbYug@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, futurize won't touch code that already works under Python 3 (at
least not in theory).

I doubt that it's very useful though. The changes aren't likely to be
that big. But you can run it without writing the changes to disk, and
see what the differences are.

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Neal Becker <ndbecker2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have code that has been run through a (several versions old) futurize.
>
> Can/should I try to futurize it again now that I have a newer version of
> future/futurize?  Is this even possible?
>
> --
> -- Those who don't understand recursion are doomed to repeat it
>
> _______________________________________________
> Python-porting mailing list
> Python-porting at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-porting

From barry at python.org  Wed Dec 17 02:26:57 2014
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 20:26:57 -0500
Subject: [Python-porting] pickle data
Message-ID: <20141216202657.78153c70@anarchist.wooz.org>

Here's an interesting situation I am faced with as I port Mailman 3 to Python
3.  I haven't seen any other discussion of it, so I thought I'd post here for
posterity.

Let's say you have a pickle created in Python 2 that is to be read in Python
3.  In Mailman 2, persistent mailing list data is stored in pickles.

It seems like both Python 2 types (unicode and str/bytes) get unpickled as
Python 3 str types.  It makes sense because:

* Python 2 unicode should unpickle as Python 3 str
* In Python 2, bytes are just an alias for str
* There's no way to know the intent of whether Python 2 "bytes" should be
  unpickled as Python 3 bytes or str.

Code:

-----put.py-----
from six.moves.cPickle import dump

d = {
    b'b': b'b',
    u'u': u'u',
    's': 's',
    }

with open('/tmp/foo.pck', 'wb') as fp:
    dump(d, fp)
-----put.py-----

-----get.py-----
from pprint import pprint
from six.moves.cPickle import load

with open('/tmp/foo.pck', 'rb') as fp:
    d = load(fp)

pprint(d)
-----get.py-----

$ python2 /tmp/put.py
$ python3 /tmp/get.py
{'b': 'b', 's': 's', 'u': 'u'}
$ python2 /tmp/get.py
{'b': 'b', 's': 's', u'u': u'u'}

Cheers,
-Barry
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From benjamin at python.org  Wed Dec 17 02:32:40 2014
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 20:32:40 -0500
Subject: [Python-porting] pickle data
In-Reply-To: <20141216202657.78153c70@anarchist.wooz.org>
References: <20141216202657.78153c70@anarchist.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <1418779960.862449.203788917.5D431723@webmail.messagingengine.com>



On Tue, Dec 16, 2014, at 20:26, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> Here's an interesting situation I am faced with as I port Mailman 3 to
> Python
> 3.  I haven't seen any other discussion of it, so I thought I'd post here
> for
> posterity.
> 
> Let's say you have a pickle created in Python 2 that is to be read in
> Python
> 3.  In Mailman 2, persistent mailing list data is stored in pickles.
> 
> It seems like both Python 2 types (unicode and str/bytes) get unpickled
> as
> Python 3 str types.

You can change this by passing encoding="bytes" to pickle.loads. See
https://docs.python.org/3/library/pickle.html#pickle.load

> 
> * Python 2 unicode should unpickle as Python 3 str
> * In Python 2, bytes are just an alias for str
> * There's no way to know the intent of whether Python 2 "bytes" should be
>   unpickled as Python 3 bytes or str.

Yeah, this is problematic. Probably the best you can do is unpickle
everything with bytes then manually decode actual string things into
str.

From greg at krypto.org  Mon Dec 22 17:50:30 2014
From: greg at krypto.org (Gregory P. Smith)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 16:50:30 +0000
Subject: [Python-porting] pickle data
References: <20141216202657.78153c70@anarchist.wooz.org>
 <1418779960.862449.203788917.5D431723@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CAGE7PNLjaSJhBcJh7Hocb8h7dmnV9+vioxrBvonxROskhkQCmQ@mail.gmail.com>

Or update your Python 2 code to save its data in a proper well defined
language agnostic portable data format instead of a pickle. Pickles are
definitely a problem. My own advice is to never use them for anything you
don't mind throwing away (ie: simple caches).

On Tue Dec 16 2014 at 5:32:55 PM Benjamin Peterson <benjamin at python.org>
wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014, at 20:26, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> > Here's an interesting situation I am faced with as I port Mailman 3 to
> > Python
> > 3.  I haven't seen any other discussion of it, so I thought I'd post here
> > for
> > posterity.
> >
> > Let's say you have a pickle created in Python 2 that is to be read in
> > Python
> > 3.  In Mailman 2, persistent mailing list data is stored in pickles.
> >
> > It seems like both Python 2 types (unicode and str/bytes) get unpickled
> > as
> > Python 3 str types.
>
> You can change this by passing encoding="bytes" to pickle.loads. See
> https://docs.python.org/3/library/pickle.html#pickle.load
>
> >
> > * Python 2 unicode should unpickle as Python 3 str
> > * In Python 2, bytes are just an alias for str
> > * There's no way to know the intent of whether Python 2 "bytes" should be
> >   unpickled as Python 3 bytes or str.
>
> Yeah, this is problematic. Probably the best you can do is unpickle
> everything with bytes then manually decode actual string things into
> str.
> _______________________________________________
> Python-porting mailing list
> Python-porting at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-porting
>
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From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 23 17:39:10 2014
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2014 11:39:10 -0500
Subject: [Python-porting] pickle data
References: <20141216202657.78153c70@anarchist.wooz.org>
 <1418779960.862449.203788917.5D431723@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAGE7PNLjaSJhBcJh7Hocb8h7dmnV9+vioxrBvonxROskhkQCmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <m7c5re$1ov$1@ger.gmane.org>

Gregory P. Smith wrote:

> Or update your Python 2 code to save its data in a proper well defined
> language agnostic portable data format instead of a pickle. Pickles are
> definitely a problem. My own advice is to never use them for anything you
> don't mind throwing away (ie: simple caches).
> 

Such as?



From greg at krypto.org  Tue Dec 23 21:12:53 2014
From: greg at krypto.org (Gregory P. Smith)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2014 20:12:53 +0000
Subject: [Python-porting] pickle data
References: <20141216202657.78153c70@anarchist.wooz.org>
 <1418779960.862449.203788917.5D431723@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAGE7PNLjaSJhBcJh7Hocb8h7dmnV9+vioxrBvonxROskhkQCmQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <m7c5re$1ov$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAGE7PNJ=9CP_xJhxoy41FLvM99Z1QvcH8r7SPnPWW1o=86S4bQ@mail.gmail.com>

JSON is popular and well supported by virtually everyone. Myself, I prefer
data formats with an explicit schema. But those are much heavier weight
(Protocol Buffers, Thrift, etc).

You can bolt a schema onto JSON. Any code serializing as such effectively
already is. Unless they declare the structure, field names and types
somewhere the definition is just the implementation code... which tends to
change over time without necessarily thinking about the schema, leading to
problems. Thus why I like having a well defined schema for storage. :)

On Tue Dec 23 2014 at 8:39:35 AM Neal Becker <ndbecker2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Gregory P. Smith wrote:
>
> > Or update your Python 2 code to save its data in a proper well defined
> > language agnostic portable data format instead of a pickle. Pickles are
> > definitely a problem. My own advice is to never use them for anything you
> > don't mind throwing away (ie: simple caches).
> >
>
> Such as?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Python-porting mailing list
> Python-porting at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-porting
>
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From barry at python.org  Tue Dec 23 21:52:07 2014
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2014 15:52:07 -0500
Subject: [Python-porting] pickle data
In-Reply-To: <CAGE7PNJ=9CP_xJhxoy41FLvM99Z1QvcH8r7SPnPWW1o=86S4bQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20141216202657.78153c70@anarchist.wooz.org>
 <1418779960.862449.203788917.5D431723@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAGE7PNLjaSJhBcJh7Hocb8h7dmnV9+vioxrBvonxROskhkQCmQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <m7c5re$1ov$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGE7PNJ=9CP_xJhxoy41FLvM99Z1QvcH8r7SPnPWW1o=86S4bQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20141223155207.07f4020c@anthem>

On Dec 23, 2014, at 08:12 PM, Gregory P. Smith wrote:

>JSON is popular and well supported by virtually everyone.

AFAICT, JSON won't preserve the differences between bytes and unicodes in
Python 2, so it also can't restore the equivalent types to Python 3.

-Barry

From sandro.tosi at gmail.com  Tue Dec  2 17:07:54 2014
From: sandro.tosi at gmail.com (Sandro Tosi)
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2014 16:07:54 -0000
Subject: [Python-porting] Using speechd
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W4Skuk=incbfeRGZjw_Dq3i+ES368Yzw5g18Nen_qKTag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AF85FA4068DAC742BDD67ACA4569821B2FF80349@S11ASHDAG001N3.sh11.lan>
 <CAP1=2W4Skuk=incbfeRGZjw_Dq3i+ES368Yzw5g18Nen_qKTag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB4XWXz6z3N314TUM9mMKFYBft6CWAFW+yoV1Epe1J8_rxd-+A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
in the Debian world the py3k speechd module is available since Jessie (the
current testing, soon-to-be-stable):
https://packages.debian.org/jessie/python3-speechd (so yes, the upstream
module is py3k compatible).

On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 3:34 PM, Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> wrote:

> I assume you're talking about
> https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/python-speechd which looks like it has
> not been ported to Python 3. I would reach out to the developers and ask
> them when they plan on supporting Python 3.
>
> On Mon Dec 01 2014 at 1:12:20 PM Michael Cooper <mcooper at krsearch.net>
> wrote:
>
>>  I am using Python 3.4.1 with Idle 3.4.1.  speechd seems to have
>> disappeared.  Found solutions to a similar issue on google, but solution
>> does not work for me.  When I reference speech I get an error indicating
>> the module does not exist.  Is that a transition issue from 2 to 3?  Cannot
>> find others with a similar issue, except the one - the suggested solution
>> was he upgrade to Idle3, which worked for him, but not me.  Any help or
>> direction?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>> *Michael Cooper*
>>
>> USA
>>
>> [image: cid:image001.png at 01CFA0DC.ED484720]
>>
>> *+1 480 924 1220 <%2B1%20480%20924%201220>*  O.
>>
>> *+1 602 510 6633 <%2B1%20602%20510%206633> * M.
>>
>> mcooper at KRsearch.net
>>
>> www.KRsearch.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *We recruit leaders for organizations that feed the world and keep it
>> healthy.*
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>> Python-porting mailing list
>> Python-porting at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-porting
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Python-porting mailing list
> Python-porting at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-porting
>
> --
> <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-porting>
> Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu)
> My website: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-porting>
> http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/
> Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi
>
>
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From bcannon at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 22:12:23 2014
From: bcannon at gmail.com (Brett Cannon)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 21:12:23 -0000
Subject: [Python-porting] Python 2/3 porting HOWTO has been updated
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W6_o0yZh+UCCudVgrfkW3DzD9_L0CNXWYYOA9Q4opSvkg@mail.gmail.com>

It now promotes using tooling as much as possible to automate the process
of making code by Python 2/3 source-compatible:
https://docs.python.org/3.5/howto/pyporting.html

Blog post about it at
http://nothingbutsnark.svbtle.com/commentary-on-getting-your-code-to-run-on-python-23
.
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From mcooper at krsearch.net  Sun Dec  7 18:35:39 2014
From: mcooper at krsearch.net (Michael Cooper)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2014 17:35:39 -0000
Subject: [Python-porting] Using speechd
In-Reply-To: <CAB4XWXz6z3N314TUM9mMKFYBft6CWAFW+yoV1Epe1J8_rxd-+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AF85FA4068DAC742BDD67ACA4569821B2FF80349@S11ASHDAG001N3.sh11.lan>
 <CAP1=2W4Skuk=incbfeRGZjw_Dq3i+ES368Yzw5g18Nen_qKTag@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAB4XWXz6z3N314TUM9mMKFYBft6CWAFW+yoV1Epe1J8_rxd-+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AF85FA4068DAC742BDD67ACA4569821B2FFB463E@S11ASHDAG001N3.sh11.lan>

Thank you Brett and Sandro.  I am new to Python and I am enjoying learning.  I will try the connection you noted.

Kind Regards,
Michael

Michael Cooper
Managing Director
USA
[cid:image001.png at 01CF444A.D93B3B00]
+1 480 924 1220  O.
+1 602 510 6633  M.
mcooper at KRsearch.net<mailto:mcooper at KRsearch.net>
http://www.KRsearch.com/




We recruit leaders for organizations that feed the world and keep it healthy.

From: Sandro Tosi [mailto:sandro.tosi at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 9:07 AM
To: Brett Cannon
Cc: Michael Cooper; python-porting at python.org
Subject: Re: [Python-porting] Using speechd

Hi,
in the Debian world the py3k speechd module is available since Jessie (the current testing, soon-to-be-stable): https://packages.debian.org/jessie/python3-speechd (so yes, the upstream module is py3k compatible).

On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 3:34 PM, Brett Cannon <brett at python.org<mailto:brett at python.org>> wrote:
I assume you're talking about https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/python-speechd which looks like it has not been ported to Python 3. I would reach out to the developers and ask them when they plan on supporting Python 3.
On Mon Dec 01 2014 at 1:12:20 PM Michael Cooper <mcooper at krsearch.net<mailto:mcooper at krsearch.net>> wrote:
I am using Python 3.4.1 with Idle 3.4.1.  speechd seems to have disappeared.  Found solutions to a similar issue on google, but solution does not work for me.  When I reference speech I get an error indicating the module does not exist.  Is that a transition issue from 2 to 3?  Cannot find others with a similar issue, except the one - the suggested solution was he upgrade to Idle3, which worked for him, but not me.  Any help or direction?

Regards,
Michael

Michael Cooper
USA
[cid:image001.png at 01CFA0DC.ED484720]
+1 480 924 1220<tel:%2B1%20480%20924%201220>  O.
+1 602 510 6633<tel:%2B1%20602%20510%206633>  M.
mcooper at KRsearch.net<mailto:mcooper at KRsearch.net>
www.KRsearch.com<http://www.KRsearch.com>






We recruit leaders for organizations that feed the world and keep it healthy.

_______________________________________________
Python-porting mailing list
Python-porting at python.org<mailto:Python-porting at python.org>
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-porting

_______________________________________________
Python-porting mailing list
Python-porting at python.org<mailto:Python-porting at python.org>
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-porting


<https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-porting>
--
<https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-porting>
Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu)
My website: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-porting> http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/
Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi

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