From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 20:06:33 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:06:33 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] test
Message-ID: <49AC2E39.10407@gmail.com>

omdat er zojuist een bericht van mij is geweigerd.
Stef

From reinout at vanrees.org  Mon Mar  2 20:19:24 2009
From: reinout at vanrees.org (Reinout van Rees)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 20:19:24 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] samenvatting Arnhem
Message-ID: <2b52d5bf0903021119k269cdcedi53ed6a6bf510697f@mail.gmail.com>

Voor wie er niet bij waren een samenvatting van de laatste PUN in Arnhem:

http://reinout.vanrees.org/weblog/pun-arnhem-2009


Reinout

-- 
Reinout van Rees - reinout at vanrees.org
http://reinout.vanrees.org/ - http://www.thehealthagency.com
"I can be googled, therefore I am."

From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 20:27:49 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:27:49 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] my real question remains rejected
Message-ID: <49AC3335.50601@gmail.com>

hallo,

heeft iemand een idee,
volgens mij heb ik slechts gewone tekst gebruikt,
(misschien wat uitdagend, maar ik geloof niet dat google dat doorheeft)
en krijg toch deze melding:

Technical details of permanent failure: 
Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the recipient domain. We recommend contacting the other email provider for further information about the cause of this error. The error that the other server returned was: 553 553 rejected, message looks like spam. (state 18).


bedankt,
Stef Mientki


From tim at timmolendijk.nl  Tue Mar  3 02:03:04 2009
From: tim at timmolendijk.nl (Tim Molendijk)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 02:03:04 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] samenvatting Arnhem
In-Reply-To: <2b52d5bf0903021119k269cdcedi53ed6a6bf510697f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2b52d5bf0903021119k269cdcedi53ed6a6bf510697f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e0af74830903021703h4ca42c3dt5908002157f6800a@mail.gmail.com>

Mijn twee centen:
http://timmolendijk.nl/pun-dutch-python-users-meet-up-in-arnhem/

Overigens heb ik er een link in geplaatst naar de buildout configuratie die
ik gebruik voor deployment van SmartPR, misschien een handige resource voor
mensen die de moed opvatten om ook eens met zc.buildout aan de gang te gaan.

Ik vond het overigens een mooie meet-up, nog bedankt Erwin, David en co!


Op 2 maart 2009 20:19 schreef Reinout van Rees <reinout op vanrees.org> het
volgende:

> Voor wie er niet bij waren een samenvatting van de laatste PUN in Arnhem:
>
> http://reinout.vanrees.org/weblog/pun-arnhem-2009
>
>
> Reinout
>
> --
> Reinout van Rees - reinout op vanrees.org
> http://reinout.vanrees.org/ - http://www.thehealthagency.com
> "I can be googled, therefore I am."
> _______________________________________________
> Python-nl mailing list
> Python-nl op python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl
>



-- 
http://timmolendijk.nl
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From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Tue Mar  3 03:14:06 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 02:14:06 +0000
Subject: [python-nl] =?windows-1252?q?=5BANN=5D_EuroPython_2009_=96_Open_f?=
 =?windows-1252?q?or_Registration_and_Reminder_of_Participation!?=
Message-ID: <49AC926E.9040605@dcuktec.org>

On behalf of the EuroPython 2009 organisation it is my privilege and 
honour to announce that EuroPython 2009 is open for registration!  
EuroPython is the conference for the communities around Python, 
including the Django, Zope and Plone communities.
This year's conference will be held in Birmingham, UK from Monday 30th 
June to Monday 2nd July 2009.
Preceding the conference, on Saturday 28th June and Sunday 29th June, 
are the tutorial days, which can be attended separately.

We have a special extra early bird rate, just 95 GBP for the conference 
and 70 GBP for the tutorials. Be quick, this offer only last untill the 
14th of March!
For your convenience we negotiated special hotel prices, you can book 
your conference and hotels all at ones. Register at 
http://www.europython.eu/registration/ .

Talks & Themes
We already received a number of very interesting talks, why not add yours?
Go to http://www.europython.eu/talks/cfp/ for this year's themes and 
submissions criteria, the deadline is on 5th April 2009.

Other Talks, Activities and Events
Have you got something which does not fit the above? Visit 
http://www.europython.eu/talks/ .

Help Us Out
We could use a hand, any contribution is welcome, please take a look at 
http://www.europython.eu/contact/ .

Sponsors
An unique opportunity to affiliate with the prestigious EuroPython 
conference!
http://www.europython.eu/sponsors/

Spread the Word
Improve our publicity by distributing this announcement in your corner 
of the community, coordinating this with the organizers is highly 
appreciated.     http://www.europython.eu/contact/

General Information
For more information about the conference, please visit 
http://www.europython.eu/ .

Looking forward to see you!

The EuroPython Team


From remco at maykinmedia.nl  Tue Mar  3 12:21:19 2009
From: remco at maykinmedia.nl (Remco Wendt)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:21:19 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] samenvatting Arnhem
In-Reply-To: <e0af74830903021703h4ca42c3dt5908002157f6800a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2b52d5bf0903021119k269cdcedi53ed6a6bf510697f@mail.gmail.com>
	<e0af74830903021703h4ca42c3dt5908002157f6800a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a6d21a790903030321n31ff3b88ub69b0b0b0f19c49@mail.gmail.com>

2009/3/3 Tim Molendijk <tim at timmolendijk.nl>

> Mijn twee centen:
> http://timmolendijk.nl/pun-dutch-python-users-meet-up-in-arnhem/
>
> Overigens heb ik er een link in geplaatst naar de buildout configuratie die
> ik gebruik voor deployment van SmartPR, misschien een handige resource voor
> mensen die de moed opvatten om ook eens met zc.buildout aan de gang te gaan.
>
> Ik vond het overigens een mooie meet-up, nog bedankt Erwin, David en co!
>

I also placed links to your blog posts on nl.python.org.
Since their was not enough time for the lightning talks, is it ok for
everyone if I move all lightning talks to the next meeting in Veenendaal?

Btw from now on there will be an attendee list on the agenda page for every
meeting. If you intend to come please register your name (+ names of people
you bring along) there. This is so we know how many drinks we have to buy
:). For those of you planning to attend the next PUN, please add your name
to the attendee list at http://wiki.python.org/moin/PUB/CQ2M280509 (even if
you use upcoming).

Remco
-- 
Maykin Media
Damrak 355, 1012 ZJ Amsterdam
tel.: +31 (0)6 187 967 06
http://www.maykinmedia.nl
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From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Tue Mar  3 20:46:18 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 20:46:18 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Django or something else ?
Message-ID: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>

hello,

I'm looking for a way to make web applications,
especially (medical) questionnaires / surveys.

At the last PUN meeting in Arnhem,
I asked a few people, and they all told me that Django would be the way 
to go.
The most important argument was that the Django support / community was 
the largest.

When I look at the web,
both Django and Web2Py seems to have about the same capabilities.
In comparisons Web2Py looks something better, but these comparisons are 
often coloured.

The past days the number of mails in the Web2Py newsgroups is about 
twice as large as in the Django newsgroup.
About Web2Py, I can buy a book, and didn't found any book about Django.
I've downloaded both,
still couldn't get Django working after 15 minutes,
while Web2Py worked in less than 5 minutes.

What am I missing ?

thanks,
Stef Mientki


From wichert at wiggy.net  Tue Mar  3 20:48:14 2009
From: wichert at wiggy.net (Wichert Akkerman)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 20:48:14 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Django or something else ?
In-Reply-To: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>
References: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AD897E.9080807@wiggy.net>

On 3/3/09 8:46 PM, Stef Mientki wrote:
> hello,
>
> I'm looking for a way to make web applications,
> especially (medical) questionnaires / surveys.
>
> At the last PUN meeting in Arnhem,
> I asked a few people, and they all told me that Django would be the 
> way to go.
> The most important argument was that the Django support / community 
> was the largest.
>
> When I look at the web,
> both Django and Web2Py seems to have about the same capabilities.
> In comparisons Web2Py looks something better, but these comparisons 
> are often coloured.
>
> The past days the number of mails in the Web2Py newsgroups is about 
> twice as large as in the Django newsgroup.
> About Web2Py, I can buy a book, and didn't found any book about Django.
> I've downloaded both,
> still couldn't get Django working after 15 minutes,
> while Web2Py worked in less than 5 minutes.
>
> What am I missing ?

Only you can answer that question. It depends on your skillset, what 
kind of application you have, performance and other requirements, etc.

For what it's worth my favourite frameworks at the moment are pylons and 
repoze.bfg.

Wichert

From Rick.van.Hattem at fawo.nl  Tue Mar  3 21:09:38 2009
From: Rick.van.Hattem at fawo.nl (Rick van Hattem)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 21:09:38 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Django or something else ?
In-Reply-To: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>
References: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200903032109.41680.Rick.van.Hattem@fawo.nl>

On Tuesday 03 March 2009 20:46, Stef Mientki wrote:
> hello,
>
> I'm looking for a way to make web applications,
> especially (medical) questionnaires / surveys.
>
> At the last PUN meeting in Arnhem,
> I asked a few people, and they all told me that Django would be the way
> to go.
> The most important argument was that the Django support / community was
> the largest.
>
> When I look at the web,
> both Django and Web2Py seems to have about the same capabilities.
> In comparisons Web2Py looks something better, but these comparisons are
> often coloured.
>
> The past days the number of mails in the Web2Py newsgroups is about
> twice as large as in the Django newsgroup.
> About Web2Py, I can buy a book, and didn't found any book about Django.
> I've downloaded both,
> still couldn't get Django working after 15 minutes,
> while Web2Py worked in less than 5 minutes.
>
> What am I missing ?
>
> thanks,
> Stef Mientki
>
> _______________________________________________
> Python-nl mailing list
> Python-nl at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl

A mailinglist doesn't say everything about community site, but it can be a 
nice indication. 

I usually use Google trends to get a usage comparison. This is not a sure way 
to measure usage, but it should give a nice indication about the usage.
Here's a link: 
http://www.google.com/trends?q=django%2C+web2py%2C+turbogears%2C+zope%2C+pylons&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

These numbers might be pretty skewed because Django (Reinhardt) was a very 
popular guitarist.


As for books, where did you look?
Amazon has 101 results for Django: 
http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=1236110729/ref=sr_nr_n_0?ie=UTF8&rs=1000&keywords=django&bbn=5&rnid=1000&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Adjango%2Ci%3Astripbooks%2Cn%3A5
Amazon has 2 results for Web2Py: 
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=node%3D5&field-keywords=web2py&x=0&y=0


I think you are missing a clear comparison here, have a look at both 
frameworks (or possibly, more, there are others) and think about what 
features you will need. Which framework suits your needs better?

-- 
Rick van Hattem	Rick.van.Hattem(at)Fawo.nl
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From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Tue Mar  3 21:14:39 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:14:39 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Django or something else ?
In-Reply-To: <49AD897E.9080807@wiggy.net>
References: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com> <49AD897E.9080807@wiggy.net>
Message-ID: <49AD8FAF.1020804@gmail.com>

Wichert Akkerman wrote:
> On 3/3/09 8:46 PM, Stef Mientki wrote:
>> hello,
>>
>> I'm looking for a way to make web applications,
>> especially (medical) questionnaires / surveys.
>>
>> At the last PUN meeting in Arnhem,
>> I asked a few people, and they all told me that Django would be the 
>> way to go.
>> The most important argument was that the Django support / community 
>> was the largest.
>>
>> When I look at the web,
>> both Django and Web2Py seems to have about the same capabilities.
>> In comparisons Web2Py looks something better, but these comparisons 
>> are often coloured.
>>
>> The past days the number of mails in the Web2Py newsgroups is about 
>> twice as large as in the Django newsgroup.
>> About Web2Py, I can buy a book, and didn't found any book about Django.
>> I've downloaded both,
>> still couldn't get Django working after 15 minutes,
>> while Web2Py worked in less than 5 minutes.
>>
>> What am I missing ?
>
> Only you can answer that question. It depends on your skillset, what 
> kind of application you have, performance and other requirements, etc.
>
> For what it's worth my favourite frameworks at the moment are pylons 
> and repoze.bfg.
thanks Wichert,

my skills are minimal (and I like to keep it that way),
that's why I choose Python ;-)
I looked at the packages you mentioned,
and as I see more than 10 words on 1 page I don' t understand,
these are definitely not what I'm looking for.

cheers,
Stef

>
> Wichert
> _______________________________________________
> Python-nl mailing list
> Python-nl at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl


From wichert at wiggy.net  Tue Mar  3 21:18:47 2009
From: wichert at wiggy.net (Wichert Akkerman)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:18:47 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Django or something else ?
In-Reply-To: <49AD8FAF.1020804@gmail.com>
References: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com> <49AD897E.9080807@wiggy.net>
	<49AD8FAF.1020804@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AD90A7.5000802@wiggy.net>

On 3/3/09 9:14 PM, Stef Mientki wrote:
> my skills are minimal (and I like to keep it that way),
> that's why I choose Python ;-)
> I looked at the packages you mentioned,
> and as I see more than 10 words on 1 page I don' t understand,
> these are definitely not what I'm looking for.

In other words you are looking for frameworks with excellent 
documentation. You can look at:

    * http://pylonshq.com/docs/en/0.9.7/ for pylons
    * http://grok.zope.org/ for grok

Repoze has pretty decent documentation, but only in reference form at 
the moment so probably not a good choice.

I have no idea about Django documentation - there are too many things I 
do no like about Django so I have never studied it closely.

Wichert.

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From tim at timmolendijk.nl  Tue Mar  3 21:28:36 2009
From: tim at timmolendijk.nl (Tim Molendijk)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 21:28:36 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Django or something else ?
In-Reply-To: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>
References: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e0af74830903031228n267b9230wc84d0661d08eb71d@mail.gmail.com>

Hoi Stef,

Zelf heb ik geen hands-on ervaring met web2py, maar het lijkt me dat een
simpele web app zoals een survey hoe dan ook met ieder framework tamelijk
gemakkelijk gebouwd zou moeten kunnen worden. Dus in die zin maakt het voor
deze specifieke klus niet zo gek veel uit welke keuze je maakt. Als ik in
jouw positie zou zitten zou ik zwaar mee laten wegen hoe mijn
toekomstplannen eruit zouden zien. Welk framework past het beste bij het
werk dat ik in de komende jaren van plan ben te doen?

Mijn ervaring met Django is dat het in eerste kennismaking erg elegant en
gemakkelijk is om mee te werken. Zolang je niet al te eigenwijs bent en je
enigszins voegt naar de wijze waarop de verschillende onderdelen van het
framework gebruikt wensen te worden, geeft het echt een enorme boost aan je
productiviteit. Wat ook een hele grote rol speelt is de zeer goed
onderhouden en goed geschreven documentatie die beschikbaar is. Daarbij weet
je dat het project het stadium van one-man-show reeds sinds lange tijd
ontstegen is, hetgeen veel vertrouwen inboezemt aangaande de continu?teit
van de software. Wat ik na een tamelijk lange tijd intensief gebruik als
nadeel ervaar is dat je op een gegeven moment, bij te specifieke wensen, wel
tegen de grenzen van enkele onderdelen (in mijn geval models/ORM,
(model)forms en templates) op gaat lopen. Dat is nooit een echt probleem
omdat je altijd componenten kan vervangen of functionaliteit kan overriden
maar dat doet de strakheid van het framework wel wat geweld aan. Daarbij ben
ik niet heel erg te spreken over de broncode, die is hier en daar nog wel
eens een rommeltje.

Gr.,
Tim


2009/3/3 Stef Mientki <stef.mientki op gmail.com>

> hello,
>
> I'm looking for a way to make web applications,
> especially (medical) questionnaires / surveys.
>
> At the last PUN meeting in Arnhem,
> I asked a few people, and they all told me that Django would be the way to
> go.
> The most important argument was that the Django support / community was the
> largest.
>
> When I look at the web,
> both Django and Web2Py seems to have about the same capabilities.
> In comparisons Web2Py looks something better, but these comparisons are
> often coloured.
>
> The past days the number of mails in the Web2Py newsgroups is about twice
> as large as in the Django newsgroup.
> About Web2Py, I can buy a book, and didn't found any book about Django.
> I've downloaded both,
> still couldn't get Django working after 15 minutes,
> while Web2Py worked in less than 5 minutes.
>
> What am I missing ?
>
> thanks,
> Stef Mientki
>
> _______________________________________________
> Python-nl mailing list
> Python-nl op python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl
>



-- 
http://timmolendijk.nl
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From erwin at eight.nl  Wed Mar  4 09:13:38 2009
From: erwin at eight.nl (Erwin Elling - Eight Media)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 09:13:38 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Django or something else ?
In-Reply-To: <e0af74830903031228n267b9230wc84d0661d08eb71d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>
	<e0af74830903031228n267b9230wc84d0661d08eb71d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <64dc288e0903040013o3359c8a9yb2d94fa39241c76a@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Stef,
I fully agree with Tims words on Django. These resources were a big help to
get me started about 2 years ago:

http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ - Django's excellent documentation
http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/intro/ - The getting started section of
this documentation
http://djangobook.com/ - The Django Book.

Good luck,
Erwin

PS: For "just" a questionnaire/ survey I would ask myself whether I really
need to get into a web-framework. There are quite some webapps out there
that do an excellent job if you don't have any special needs. We've used
http://wufoo.com/ a couple of times, but I guess there are many more.

2009/3/3 Tim Molendijk <tim op timmolendijk.nl>

> Hoi Stef,
>
> Zelf heb ik geen hands-on ervaring met web2py, maar het lijkt me dat een
> simpele web app zoals een survey hoe dan ook met ieder framework tamelijk
> gemakkelijk gebouwd zou moeten kunnen worden. Dus in die zin maakt het voor
> deze specifieke klus niet zo gek veel uit welke keuze je maakt. Als ik in
> jouw positie zou zitten zou ik zwaar mee laten wegen hoe mijn
> toekomstplannen eruit zouden zien. Welk framework past het beste bij het
> werk dat ik in de komende jaren van plan ben te doen?
>
> Mijn ervaring met Django is dat het in eerste kennismaking erg elegant en
> gemakkelijk is om mee te werken. Zolang je niet al te eigenwijs bent en je
> enigszins voegt naar de wijze waarop de verschillende onderdelen van het
> framework gebruikt wensen te worden, geeft het echt een enorme boost aan je
> productiviteit. Wat ook een hele grote rol speelt is de zeer goed
> onderhouden en goed geschreven documentatie die beschikbaar is. Daarbij weet
> je dat het project het stadium van one-man-show reeds sinds lange tijd
> ontstegen is, hetgeen veel vertrouwen inboezemt aangaande de continu?teit
> van de software. Wat ik na een tamelijk lange tijd intensief gebruik als
> nadeel ervaar is dat je op een gegeven moment, bij te specifieke wensen, wel
> tegen de grenzen van enkele onderdelen (in mijn geval models/ORM,
> (model)forms en templates) op gaat lopen. Dat is nooit een echt probleem
> omdat je altijd componenten kan vervangen of functionaliteit kan overriden
> maar dat doet de strakheid van het framework wel wat geweld aan. Daarbij ben
> ik niet heel erg te spreken over de broncode, die is hier en daar nog wel
> eens een rommeltje.
>
> Gr.,
> Tim
>
>
> 2009/3/3 Stef Mientki <stef.mientki op gmail.com>- Show quoted text -
>
> hello,
>>
>> I'm looking for a way to make web applications,
>> especially (medical) questionnaires / surveys.
>>
>> At the last PUN meeting in Arnhem,
>> I asked a few people, and they all told me that Django would be the way to
>> go.
>> The most important argument was that the Django support / community was
>> the largest.
>>
>> When I look at the web,
>> both Django and Web2Py seems to have about the same capabilities.
>> In comparisons Web2Py looks something better, but these comparisons are
>> often coloured.
>>
>> The past days the number of mails in the Web2Py newsgroups is about twice
>> as large as in the Django newsgroup.
>> About Web2Py, I can buy a book, and didn't found any book about Django.
>> I've downloaded both,
>> still couldn't get Django working after 15 minutes,
>> while Web2Py worked in less than 5 minutes.
>>
>> What am I missing ?
>>
>> thanks,
>> Stef Mientki
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Python-nl mailing list
>> Python-nl op python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl
>>
>
>
>
> --
> http://timmolendijk.nl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Python-nl mailing list
> Python-nl op python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl
>
>


-- 
Eight Media

Velperweg 95, 6824 HH Arnhem
Postbus 5005, 6802 EA Arnhem

Tel: +31 26 384 24 40
Web: http://www.eight.nl
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From david.hund at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 11:18:08 2009
From: david.hund at gmail.com (David Hund)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 11:18:08 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Python-nl Digest, Vol 58,
	Issue 2 - Django documentation and 	resources
Message-ID: <50f6446e0903040218h14d251cam3a6559d16684b3e4@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 9:18 PM,  <python-nl-request op python.org> wrote:
> Send Python-nl mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> ? 1. Re: samenvatting Arnhem (Remco Wendt)
> ? 2. Django or something else ? (Stef Mientki)
> ? 3. Re: Django or something else ? (Wichert Akkerman)
> ? 4. Re: Django or something else ? (Rick van Hattem)
> ? 5. Re: Django or something else ? (Stef Mientki)
> ? 6. Re: Django or something else ? (Wichert Akkerman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:21:19 +0100
> From: Remco Wendt <remco op maykinmedia.nl>
> Subject: Re: [python-nl] samenvatting Arnhem
> To: Dutch Python developers and users <python-nl op python.org>
> Message-ID:
> ? ? ? ?<a6d21a790903030321n31ff3b88ub69b0b0b0f19c49 op mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> 2009/3/3 Tim Molendijk <tim op timmolendijk.nl>
>
>> Mijn twee centen:
>> http://timmolendijk.nl/pun-dutch-python-users-meet-up-in-arnhem/
>>
>> Overigens heb ik er een link in geplaatst naar de buildout configuratie die
>> ik gebruik voor deployment van SmartPR, misschien een handige resource voor
>> mensen die de moed opvatten om ook eens met zc.buildout aan de gang te gaan.
>>
>> Ik vond het overigens een mooie meet-up, nog bedankt Erwin, David en co!
>>
>
> I also placed links to your blog posts on nl.python.org.
> Since their was not enough time for the lightning talks, is it ok for
> everyone if I move all lightning talks to the next meeting in Veenendaal?
>
> Btw from now on there will be an attendee list on the agenda page for every
> meeting. If you intend to come please register your name (+ names of people
> you bring along) there. This is so we know how many drinks we have to buy
> :). For those of you planning to attend the next PUN, please add your name
> to the attendee list at http://wiki.python.org/moin/PUB/CQ2M280509 (even if
> you use upcoming).
>
> Remco
> --
> Maykin Media
> Damrak 355, 1012 ZJ Amsterdam
> tel.: +31 (0)6 187 967 06
> http://www.maykinmedia.nl
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 20:46:18 +0100
> From: Stef Mientki <stef.mientki op gmail.com>
> Subject: [python-nl] Django or something else ?
> To: Dutch Python developers and users <python-nl op python.org>
> Message-ID: <49AD890A.2020405 op gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> hello,
>
> I'm looking for a way to make web applications,
> especially (medical) questionnaires / surveys.
>
> At the last PUN meeting in Arnhem,
> I asked a few people, and they all told me that Django would be the way
> to go.
> The most important argument was that the Django support / community was
> the largest.
>
> When I look at the web,
> both Django and Web2Py seems to have about the same capabilities.
> In comparisons Web2Py looks something better, but these comparisons are
> often coloured.
>
> The past days the number of mails in the Web2Py newsgroups is about
> twice as large as in the Django newsgroup.
> About Web2Py, I can buy a book, and didn't found any book about Django.
> I've downloaded both,
> still couldn't get Django working after 15 minutes,
> while Web2Py worked in less than 5 minutes.
>
> What am I missing ?
>
> thanks,
> Stef Mientki
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 20:48:14 +0100
> From: Wichert Akkerman <wichert op wiggy.net>
> Subject: Re: [python-nl] Django or something else ?
> To: Dutch Python developers and users <python-nl op python.org>
> Message-ID: <49AD897E.9080807 op wiggy.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 3/3/09 8:46 PM, Stef Mientki wrote:
>> hello,
>>
>> I'm looking for a way to make web applications,
>> especially (medical) questionnaires / surveys.
>>
>> At the last PUN meeting in Arnhem,
>> I asked a few people, and they all told me that Django would be the
>> way to go.
>> The most important argument was that the Django support / community
>> was the largest.
>>
>> When I look at the web,
>> both Django and Web2Py seems to have about the same capabilities.
>> In comparisons Web2Py looks something better, but these comparisons
>> are often coloured.
>>
>> The past days the number of mails in the Web2Py newsgroups is about
>> twice as large as in the Django newsgroup.
>> About Web2Py, I can buy a book, and didn't found any book about Django.
>> I've downloaded both,
>> still couldn't get Django working after 15 minutes,
>> while Web2Py worked in less than 5 minutes.
>>
>> What am I missing ?
>
> Only you can answer that question. It depends on your skillset, what
> kind of application you have, performance and other requirements, etc.
>
> For what it's worth my favourite frameworks at the moment are pylons and
> repoze.bfg.
>
> Wichert
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 21:09:38 +0100
> From: Rick van Hattem <Rick.van.Hattem op fawo.nl>
> Subject: Re: [python-nl] Django or something else ?
> To: python-nl op python.org
> Message-ID: <200903032109.41680.Rick.van.Hattem op fawo.nl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On Tuesday 03 March 2009 20:46, Stef Mientki wrote:
>> hello,
>>
>> I'm looking for a way to make web applications,
>> especially (medical) questionnaires / surveys.
>>
>> At the last PUN meeting in Arnhem,
>> I asked a few people, and they all told me that Django would be the way
>> to go.
>> The most important argument was that the Django support / community was
>> the largest.
>>
>> When I look at the web,
>> both Django and Web2Py seems to have about the same capabilities.
>> In comparisons Web2Py looks something better, but these comparisons are
>> often coloured.
>>
>> The past days the number of mails in the Web2Py newsgroups is about
>> twice as large as in the Django newsgroup.
>> About Web2Py, I can buy a book, and didn't found any book about Django.
>> I've downloaded both,
>> still couldn't get Django working after 15 minutes,
>> while Web2Py worked in less than 5 minutes.
>>
>> What am I missing ?
>>
>> thanks,
>> Stef Mientki
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Python-nl mailing list
>> Python-nl op python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl
>
> A mailinglist doesn't say everything about community site, but it can be a
> nice indication.
>
> I usually use Google trends to get a usage comparison. This is not a sure way
> to measure usage, but it should give a nice indication about the usage.
> Here's a link:
> http://www.google.com/trends?q=django%2C+web2py%2C+turbogears%2C+zope%2C+pylons&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0
>
> These numbers might be pretty skewed because Django (Reinhardt) was a very
> popular guitarist.
>
>
> As for books, where did you look?
> Amazon has 101 results for Django:
> http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=1236110729/ref=sr_nr_n_0?ie=UTF8&rs=1000&keywords=django&bbn=5&rnid=1000&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Adjango%2Ci%3Astripbooks%2Cn%3A5
> Amazon has 2 results for Web2Py:
> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=node%3D5&field-keywords=web2py&x=0&y=0
>
>
> I think you are missing a clear comparison here, have a look at both
> frameworks (or possibly, more, there are others) and think about what
> features you will need. Which framework suits your needs better?
>
> --
> Rick van Hattem Rick.van.Hattem(at)Fawo.nl
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:14:39 +0100
> From: Stef Mientki <stef.mientki op gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [python-nl] Django or something else ?
> To: python-nl op python.org
> Message-ID: <49AD8FAF.1020804 op gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Wichert Akkerman wrote:
>> On 3/3/09 8:46 PM, Stef Mientki wrote:
>>> hello,
>>>
>>> I'm looking for a way to make web applications,
>>> especially (medical) questionnaires / surveys.
>>>
>>> At the last PUN meeting in Arnhem,
>>> I asked a few people, and they all told me that Django would be the
>>> way to go.
>>> The most important argument was that the Django support / community
>>> was the largest.
>>>
>>> When I look at the web,
>>> both Django and Web2Py seems to have about the same capabilities.
>>> In comparisons Web2Py looks something better, but these comparisons
>>> are often coloured.
>>>
>>> The past days the number of mails in the Web2Py newsgroups is about
>>> twice as large as in the Django newsgroup.
>>> About Web2Py, I can buy a book, and didn't found any book about Django.
>>> I've downloaded both,
>>> still couldn't get Django working after 15 minutes,
>>> while Web2Py worked in less than 5 minutes.
>>>
>>> What am I missing ?
>>
>> Only you can answer that question. It depends on your skillset, what
>> kind of application you have, performance and other requirements, etc.
>>
>> For what it's worth my favourite frameworks at the moment are pylons
>> and repoze.bfg.
> thanks Wichert,
>
> my skills are minimal (and I like to keep it that way),
> that's why I choose Python ;-)
> I looked at the packages you mentioned,
> and as I see more than 10 words on 1 page I don' t understand,
> these are definitely not what I'm looking for.
>
> cheers,
> Stef
>
>>
>> Wichert
>> _______________________________________________
>> Python-nl mailing list
>> Python-nl op python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:18:47 +0100
> From: Wichert Akkerman <wichert op wiggy.net>
> Subject: Re: [python-nl] Django or something else ?
> To: Dutch Python developers and users <python-nl op python.org>
> Message-ID: <49AD90A7.5000802 op wiggy.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> On 3/3/09 9:14 PM, Stef Mientki wrote:
>> my skills are minimal (and I like to keep it that way),
>> that's why I choose Python ;-)
>> I looked at the packages you mentioned,
>> and as I see more than 10 words on 1 page I don' t understand,
>> these are definitely not what I'm looking for.
>
> In other words you are looking for frameworks with excellent
> documentation. You can look at:
>
> ? ?* http://pylonshq.com/docs/en/0.9.7/ for pylons
> ? ?* http://grok.zope.org/ for grok
>
> Repoze has pretty decent documentation, but only in reference form at
> the moment so probably not a good choice.
>
> I have no idea about Django documentation - there are too many things I
> do no like about Django so I have never studied it closely.
>
> Wichert.
>
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> _______________________________________________
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> Python-nl op python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl
>
>
> End of Python-nl Digest, Vol 58, Issue 2
> ****************************************
>
Hi,

I have no experience with those other frameworks but I must say I
believe the Django community is one of the things that makes me love
this framework. Documentation is excellent (IMHO) and resources
plentiful:

Start at:
http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ or
http://www.djangobook.com/ (also in print btw!)
http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/DjangoResources

For a 'snapshot' of current activity see The Django Community
Aggregator: http://www.djangoproject.com/community/

A good book would be:
http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Guide-Django-Development-Right/dp/1590597257

They have a busy IRC channel: irc://irc.freenode.net/django

Mailing-lists: http://groups.google.com/group/django-users (users) and
http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers (developers)

There's quite a few websites dedicated to Django code/snippets:

http://www.djangosnippets.org/
http://www.djangoplugables.com/
A custom Google search-query for Django-apps hosted on google-code:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&domains=code.google.com&q=django-+-%3Ainurl%3A%2Fsource+-inurl%3A%2Fwiki+-inurl%3A%2Fsoc&sitesearch=code.google.com

I also like to monitor the Delicious Popular Django section:
http://delicious.com/popular/django

Then there's a number of people blogging e.g:

http://www.b-list.org/weblog/categories/django/
http://jacobian.org/tags/django/
http://jtauber.com/django/
http://jeffcroft.com/tags/django/ (more of a frontend perspective)

I think you should be able to learn pretty much everything that's
Django-related.

Best of luck and regards,

David Hund (david.hund op gmail.com)
http://www.valuedstandards.com

From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 23:13:33 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 23:13:33 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Django or something else ?
In-Reply-To: <64dc288e0903040013o3359c8a9yb2d94fa39241c76a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>	<e0af74830903031228n267b9230wc84d0661d08eb71d@mail.gmail.com>
	<64dc288e0903040013o3359c8a9yb2d94fa39241c76a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AEFD0D.40904@gmail.com>

thank you all for the extensive answers (also got a few off-line)

Until now this is my conclusion:
1. if you write a message in Dutch to this list, there's a good chance 
it will be rejected as spam ;-)
2. there are too many choices for a webframe work
3. my short search on the web, where Web2Py was in favorite to Django, 
might draw a wrong conclusion
4. Django might be far too heavy for my puposes
5. I'll probably first have to read some books about webframe works (in 
general)

In the mean while I bumped into PyJamas, which might give me enough power.

groeten,
Stef

From vm at klankschap.nl  Wed Mar  4 23:47:05 2009
From: vm at klankschap.nl (Floris van Manen)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 23:47:05 +0100
Subject: [python-nl]  fast & simple ?
In-Reply-To: <49AEFD0D.40904@gmail.com>
References: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>	<e0af74830903031228n267b9230wc84d0661d08eb71d@mail.gmail.com>
	<64dc288e0903040013o3359c8a9yb2d94fa39241c76a@mail.gmail.com>
	<49AEFD0D.40904@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <944CD7FD-5D78-4C1B-A0EC-9DBC9B0FB7DB@klankschap.nl>

L.S. !

Just in case someone is in the mood to find a faster & simpler way to  
this piece of code ...
Thanks !
.Floris


import random

def LinearInter(f, a, b):
	return a + (b-a) * f

def FindSegment(r, A=[], FACT=0, DATA=1 ):
	if r <= A[0][FACT]:
		return A[0][DATA]
	elif r >= A[-1][FACT]:
		return A[-1][DATA]
	else:
		l = 0
		h = len(A)-1
		while (h-l) > 1:
			p = l + (h-l) / 2
			if r >= A[p][FACT]:
				l = p
			else:
				h = p
		if l == h:
			return A[l][DATA]
		return LinearInter( (r - A[l][FACT]) / (A[h][FACT] - A[l][FACT]),  
A[l][DATA], A[h][DATA] )

if __name__ == '__main__':
	L1 = [ (0.0,  10), (0.5,  20), (0.75, 30), (0.8,  40), (1.0,  50) ]
	L2 = [ (0.1,  50), (0.5,  30), (0.75, 10), (0.8,  40), (0.9,  70) ]

	for i in range(101):
		r = i / 100.0
		print i, FindSegment(r, L1), FindSegment(r, L2),  
FindSegment(random.random(), L2)



From stappers at stappers.nl  Wed Mar  4 23:25:22 2009
From: stappers at stappers.nl (Geert Stappers)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 23:25:22 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] python-nl
In-Reply-To: <49AEFD0D.40904@gmail.com>
References: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>
	<e0af74830903031228n267b9230wc84d0661d08eb71d@mail.gmail.com>
	<64dc288e0903040013o3359c8a9yb2d94fa39241c76a@mail.gmail.com>
	<49AEFD0D.40904@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090304222522.GY18847@gpm.stappers.nl>

Op 20090304 om 23:13 schreef Stef Mientki:
> thank you all for the extensive answers (also got a few off-line)
>
> Until now this is my conclusion:
> 1. if you write a message in Dutch to this list, there's a good chance  
> it will be rejected as spam ;-)

Daar ben ik wel benieuwd naar.

Stuur a.u.b. je oorspronkelijke bericht nog een keer
en dan met een (Blind) Carbon Copy naar mij. (Ik zal dan het bericht
twee keer krijgen (1 via de lijs en 1 rechtstreeks))


Cheers
Geert Stappers


From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Thu Mar  5 00:38:47 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 00:38:47 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] python-nl
In-Reply-To: <20090304222522.GY18847@gpm.stappers.nl>
References: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>	<e0af74830903031228n267b9230wc84d0661d08eb71d@mail.gmail.com>	<64dc288e0903040013o3359c8a9yb2d94fa39241c76a@mail.gmail.com>	<49AEFD0D.40904@gmail.com>
	<20090304222522.GY18847@gpm.stappers.nl>
Message-ID: <49AF1107.7090905@gmail.com>

hallo Geert,
hieronder het bericht dat ik direct na het verzenden ontvang.

groetjes,
Stef
Geert Stappers wrote:
> Op 20090304 om 23:13 schreef Stef Mientki:
>   
>> thank you all for the extensive answers (also got a few off-line)
>>
>> Until now this is my conclusion:
>> 1. if you write a message in Dutch to this list, there's a good chance  
>> it will be rejected as spam ;-)
>>     
>
> Daar ben ik wel benieuwd naar.
>
> Stuur a.u.b. je oorspronkelijke bericht nog een keer
> en dan met een (Blind) Carbon Copy naar mij. (Ik zal dan het bericht
> twee keer krijgen (1 via de lijs en 1 rechtstreeks))
>
>   

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification

Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

     python-nl at python.org

Technical details of permanent failure: 
Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the recipient domain. We recommend contacting the other email provider for further information about the cause of this error. The error that the other server returned was: 553 553 rejected, message looks like spam. (state 18).


> Cheers
> Geert Stappers
>
> _______________________________________________
> Python-nl mailing list
> Python-nl at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl
>   


From thisfred at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 23:59:58 2009
From: thisfred at gmail.com (eric casteleijn)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 23:59:58 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] fast & simple ?
In-Reply-To: <944CD7FD-5D78-4C1B-A0EC-9DBC9B0FB7DB@klankschap.nl>
References: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>	<e0af74830903031228n267b9230wc84d0661d08eb71d@mail.gmail.com>	<64dc288e0903040013o3359c8a9yb2d94fa39241c76a@mail.gmail.com>	<49AEFD0D.40904@gmail.com>
	<944CD7FD-5D78-4C1B-A0EC-9DBC9B0FB7DB@klankschap.nl>
Message-ID: <49AF07EE.5000003@gmail.com>

Floris van Manen wrote:
> L.S. !
> 
> Just in case someone is in the mood to find a faster & simpler way to 
> this piece of code ...
> Thanks !
> .Floris

Geen idee wat je code moet doen, en dus hoe die te verbeteren. Een 
algemene tip. Dit:

> def FindSegment(r, A=[], FACT=0, DATA=1 ):

Is een erg slecht idee: Gebruik geen keyword arguments met mutable types 
(lists en dictionaries) als default values. Die worden geinstantieerd op 
het moment dat de functie voor het eerst geladen wordt, en alle 
eventuele wijzigingen zijn de default value voor de volgende aanroep. 
Een van die weinige dingen in python waar een hartgrondig WTF? op zijn 
plek is. Als je echt een lege lijst nodig hebt als er niets meegegeven 
wordt voor A, doe dan A=None, en check daarop aan het begin van je 
functie body, en stop er een verse lege lijst in. Maar dat wil je 
blijkbaar sowieso niet, want de volgende regel:

>     if r <= A[0][FACT]:

faalt met een lege lijst. Dus het is me een raadsel waarom er een 
default value is. ;)

Verder zijn variabelen met uppercase letters een gruwel.

-- 
- eric casteleijn
http://thisfred.blogspot.com

From vm at klankschap.nl  Thu Mar  5 06:07:55 2009
From: vm at klankschap.nl (Floris van Manen)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:07:55 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] fast & simple ?
In-Reply-To: <49AF07EE.5000003@gmail.com>
References: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>	<e0af74830903031228n267b9230wc84d0661d08eb71d@mail.gmail.com>	<64dc288e0903040013o3359c8a9yb2d94fa39241c76a@mail.gmail.com>	<49AEFD0D.40904@gmail.com>
	<944CD7FD-5D78-4C1B-A0EC-9DBC9B0FB7DB@klankschap.nl>
	<49AF07EE.5000003@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A5EC9217-2D13-41C3-84FB-C49E37FBA7A3@klankschap.nl>


On Mar 4, 2009, at 23:59, eric casteleijn wrote:

> Geen idee wat je code moet doen, en dus hoe die te verbeteren.


OK, zonder KAPITALEN :-)
De bedoeling is om in een gegeven lijst met tuples, dat punt te vinden  
dat met de index r in de fact colom wordt aangewezen en waarvan de  
waarde dan in de data colom staat.
De waarden voor fact zijn ook tussen 0..1 en oplopend gesorteerd. Ze  
markeren een gebied.
Waarbij r tussen 0..1 zoek je eerst het interval N .. N+1 waar factN <  
r < factN+1
vervolgens is het resultaat de interpolatie tussen dataN en dataN+1

(ik weet niet of het zo duidelijker is geworden, mar als je de codde  
draait zie jet het (waarschijnlijk) zo)
F

import random

def LinearInter(f, a, b):
	return a + (b-a) * f

def FindSegment(r, lijst=None, fact=0, data=1 ):
	if lijst:
		if r <= lijst[0][fact]:
			return lijst[0][data]
		elif r >= lijst[-1][fact]:
			return lijst[-1][data]
		else:
			l = 0
			h = len(lijst)-1
			while (h-l) > 1:
				p = l + (h-l) / 2
				if r >= lijst[p][fact]:
					l = p
				else:
					h = p
			if l == h:
				return lijst[l][data]
			return LinearInter( (r - lijst[l][fact]) / (lijst[h][fact] -  
lijst[l][fact]), lijst[l][data], lijst[h][data] )
	else:
		return None

if __name__ == '__main__':
	lijst1 = [ (0.0,  10), (0.5,  20), (0.75, 30), (0.8,  40), (1.0,  50) ]
	lijst2 = [ (0.1,  50), (0.5,  30), (0.75, 10), (0.8,  40), (0.9,  70) ]

	for i in range(101):
		r = i / 100.0
		print i, FindSegment(r, lijst1), FindSegment(r, lijst2),  
FindSegment(random.random(), lijst2)

From tim at timmolendijk.nl  Thu Mar  5 08:58:22 2009
From: tim at timmolendijk.nl (Tim Molendijk)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 08:58:22 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Django or something else ?
In-Reply-To: <49AEFD0D.40904@gmail.com>
References: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>
	<e0af74830903031228n267b9230wc84d0661d08eb71d@mail.gmail.com>
	<64dc288e0903040013o3359c8a9yb2d94fa39241c76a@mail.gmail.com>
	<49AEFD0D.40904@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e0af74830903042358r5df2a2cdr466276d87c37e2c8@mail.gmail.com>

>
> 1. if you write a message in Dutch to this list, there's a good chance it
> will be rejected as spam ;-)


Raar, nooit last van gehad.

2. there are too many choices for a webframe work


Er is tegenwoordig 'te veel' keuze in bijna alles (ook in aardbeienjam).
Laat je daardoor niet verlammen, de perfecte keuze bestaat niet. Gewoon
beetje rondneuzen, beetje advies inwinnen en vervolgens op gevoel een keuze
maken.


> 3. my short search on the web, where Web2Py was in favorite to Django,
> might draw a wrong conclusion


Zie punt 2 -- er bestaat geen perfecte keuze, evenmin een foute conclusie
dus.


> 4. Django might be far too heavy for my puposes


Waarschijnlijk wel, maar desondanks de moeite waard als je in de toekomst
meer webprojecten verwacht.

 5. I'll probably first have to read some books about webframe works (in
> general)


Zou ik niet doen, een 'framework' is niks meer dan een hoopje samengeklitte
componenten en een catchy slogan. Begin gewoon eens met de Django tutorial (
http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/intro/tutorial01/), is goed te behappen
en geeft een leuk voorzetje van wat er mogelijk is.

 In the mean while I bumped into PyJamas, which might give me enough power.


Dat kende ik nog niet, ziet er erg interessant uit! Zeker aangezien ik sinds
kort wel eens overweeg om wat met GWT te gaan doen naar nogal opzie tegen
Java. (Overigens zie ik niet hoe Pyjamas een vervanging van een webframework
zou zijn, volgens mij is het eerder een mogelijke (client-side) aanvulling.)


-- 
http://timmolendijk.nl
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From matthijs at kadijk.com  Thu Mar  5 09:56:51 2009
From: matthijs at kadijk.com (Matthijs Kadijk)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 09:56:51 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] fast & simple ?
Message-ID: <af8b88eb0903050056o4e8a5e2flae9b1274489b7f0c@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

For those in need of code refactoring, you may think about posting your code
here:

http://www.refactormycode.com/codes/recent/python

This is a cool site where programmers can suggest refactorings of
posted snippets of your code, not only in Python, but most other languages
too ..

Regards,

Matthijs Kadijk

L.S. !
>
> Just in case someone is in the mood to find a faster & simpler way to
> this piece of code ...
> Thanks !
> .Floris
>
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From j at jasper.es  Thu Mar  5 08:55:10 2009
From: j at jasper.es (Jasper Spaans)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 08:55:10 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] fast & simple ?
In-Reply-To: <A5EC9217-2D13-41C3-84FB-C49E37FBA7A3@klankschap.nl>
References: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>	<e0af74830903031228n267b9230wc84d0661d08eb71d@mail.gmail.com>	<64dc288e0903040013o3359c8a9yb2d94fa39241c76a@mail.gmail.com>	<49AEFD0D.40904@gmail.com>
	<944CD7FD-5D78-4C1B-A0EC-9DBC9B0FB7DB@klankschap.nl>
	<49AF07EE.5000003@gmail.com>
	<A5EC9217-2D13-41C3-84FB-C49E37FBA7A3@klankschap.nl>
Message-ID: <ADC8B31E-AF49-4504-98D1-BDB0B6F98EE3@jasper.es>

Hoi,

Op 5 mrt 2009, om 06:07 heeft Floris van Manen het volgende geschreven:

> On Mar 4, 2009, at 23:59, eric casteleijn wrote:
>
>> Geen idee wat je code moet doen, en dus hoe die te verbeteren.
>
> OK, zonder KAPITALEN :-)
> De bedoeling is om in een gegeven lijst met tuples, dat punt te  
> vinden dat met de index r in de fact colom wordt aangewezen en  
> waarvan de waarde dan in de data colom staat.
> De waarden voor fact zijn ook tussen 0..1 en oplopend gesorteerd. Ze  
> markeren een gebied.
> Waarbij r tussen 0..1 zoek je eerst het interval N .. N+1 waar factN  
> < r < factN+1
> vervolgens is het resultaat de interpolatie tussen dataN en dataN+1


Grappig -- ditzelfde heb ik 2 jaar terug ook eens nodig gehad, maar  
toen ben ik niet verder gekomen dan een class met functies als:

     def find_before(self, target):
         # XXX this should be done using a btree. today, we don't

en vervolgens een lineaire search over m'n items, want zo performance  
behoeftig was ik niet.

Van Jan-Wijbrand Kolman kreeg ik toen de hint om eens te kijken naar  
BTrees uit ZODB, want ??n van de dingen die in de interface van die  
classes beloofd wordt is namelijk:

     def maxKey(key=None):
         """Return the maximum key.

         If a key argument if provided and not None, return the  
largest key
         that is less than or equal to the argument.  Raise an  
exception if
         no such key exists.
         """

     def minKey(key=None):
         """Return the minimum key.

         If a key argument if provided and not None, return the  
smallest key
         that is greater than or equal to the argument.  Raise an  
exception
         if no such key exists.

en die zijn in C ge?mplementeerd, dus potentieel iets rapper dan een  
pure python implementatie. Voordeel is bovendien dat je nu je  
(lelijke) FACT en DATA indices kwijtraakt, want je slaat je data  
gewoon in een dict-achtige op.

Werkt dus als volgt als je keys integers zijn, je float geval is left  
as an exercise to the reader [0]:

 >>> import BTrees
 >>> a = BTrees.IOBTree.IOBTree()
 >>> a[0] = 1
 >>> a[2] = 3
 >>> a.maxKey(1)
0
 >>> a.minKey(1)
2

en je kan los met die interpolatie.

HTH,
Jasper

[0] Bovendien loop je het risico dat je in dat geval terug naar  
pythonland moet voor elke comparison, dus misschien ben je je voordeel  
dan kwijt, maar zeker weten doe ik dat ook weer niet. Je code wordt er  
wel leesbaarder van in ieder geval.
-- 
Jasper Spaans                                          http://jasper.es/
              This line was last modified 0 seconds ago.


From dirkjan at ochtman.nl  Thu Mar  5 11:32:56 2009
From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:32:56 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Django or something else ?
In-Reply-To: <49AEFD0D.40904@gmail.com>
References: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>
	<e0af74830903031228n267b9230wc84d0661d08eb71d@mail.gmail.com>
	<64dc288e0903040013o3359c8a9yb2d94fa39241c76a@mail.gmail.com>
	<49AEFD0D.40904@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ea2499da0903050232j21eadc6ep507f27e206541167@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 23:13, Stef Mientki <stef.mientki at gmail.com> wrote:
> Until now this is my conclusion:
> 1. if you write a message in Dutch to this list, there's a good chance it
> will be rejected as spam ;-)
> 2. there are too many choices for a webframe work
> 3. my short search on the web, where Web2Py was in favorite to Django, might
> draw a wrong conclusion
> 4. Django might be far too heavy for my puposes
> 5. I'll probably first have to read some books about webframe works (in
> general)

Dit is een duidelijke kwestie van right tool for the right job, zoals
Tim al zegt.

Ga dus ook gewoon eens spelen met Pylons of Werkzeug (minder
framework, meer library).

Zelf ben ik nooit zo'n fan van Django, dus ik draai mijn shit nu op
custom WSGI-componentjes, CouchDB en Jinja2 (ik lijd waarschijnlijk
aan een ernstige vorm van NIH). Was wel *erg* verbaasd door je claim
dat web2py populairder is dan Django. Als populariteit je
belangrijkste criterium (op zich niet gek; zorgt dat er veel
third-party code is die je kunt gebruiken/waar je van kunt leren, veel
support), kun je het waarschijnlijk niet beter doen dan Django.

Cheers,

Dirkjan

From christo at twizzy.biz  Thu Mar  5 18:43:20 2009
From: christo at twizzy.biz (Christo Butcher)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 18:43:20 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Dragonfly, is SDK 5.1 good enough ?
Message-ID: <15427fc70903050943k24753283md4bceb4ff71a41db@mail.gmail.com>

On February 27 2009, Stef Mientki wrote:

> Ik heb het op 2 computers geprobeerd, allebei met een
> uitgebreide winXP versie. De een had een uitgebreide
> Office 2000? geinstalleerd en heeft daarmee automatisch
> SAPI 5.1 geinstalleerd, de andere computer heeft geen MS-
> office en daar is handmatig SAPI 5.1 bijgezet. De Python
> installaties op beide systemen zijn nagenoeg identiek.
>
> De eerste vraag is natuurlijk of SAPI 5.1 voldoende is,
> immers SAPI 5.1 staat bekend als een ASR, terwijl
> Dragonfly een WSR nodig heeft ?

Short answer: SAPI 5.1 is sufficient.  But you'll have to
install the additional speech SDK 5.1.  Read on for the
long answer.


> Heeft iemand een klein voorbeeldje om te zien, of de
> geinstallleerde sound api voldoende is ?

The dragonfly-main.py file in the examples subdirectory
within the Dragonfly distribution can be used for this. It
is a script which searches for other Python files within
its directory, and tries to load them as a voice-command
modules.  If you can run this successfully, then your
installed SR engine is okay.


> SAPI 5.1 zou erg aantrekkelijk zijn, omdat deze vrij
> verkrijgbaar is !

Actually, SAPI 5.1 is sufficient.  One of my test machines
runs Windows XP and SAPI 5.1, and I run (and use)
Dragonfly-based voice-commands on it.  But, and here is
the problem, for this to work correctly I have to install
a speech SDK which *used to be* available for free from
Microsoft.  The filename was SpeechSDK51.exe.  The
download page from Microsoft has disappeared, and I'm not
sure why.  Occasionally I see people writing that this SDK
is now part of the complete Windows SDK, or something like
that.  I haven't figured this out yet, and don't know
right now what you should do to get that speech SDK
installed.

(If you really want to try this out, I have that original
file lying around.  I could send it to anybody interested.
But in the long run, it would of course be nice to know
what Microsoft is up to.)


> De foutmeldingen op beide systemen zijn verschillend, hier
> een van beide, misschien dat het iemand iets zegt.
>
> UNKNOWN: CommandModule('notepad_foodgroups.py'): Error
> loading module: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0,
> None, None, None, 0, -2147200948), None)

Beautiful COM trace back information.  From this error
message it is of course completely obvious what went
wrong.  Or not...  Does anybody know if it is possible to
get more exception information after a failed COM call?  I
can find all the information I want on the (local) Python
side, but have no idea what happened on the other side of
the COM connection.

This exception is raised when Dragonfly calls the
CreateRecoContext() method of the SAPI.SpSharedRecognizer
COM object.  This works under Windows Vista, and it works
on my Windows XP test machine with the speech SDK 5.1
installed.  But, as you noticed, it does not work on other
Windows XP machines (at least not on my machines without
the speech SDK).

Apparently you need to speech SDK to be able to do this,
and Dragonfly definitely needs to be able to do this.  At
least, I am not aware of any other way to use WSR (or ASR)
without calling that method to create a recognition
context.


> UNKNOWN: CommandModule('outlook_example.py'): Error
> loading module: cannot import name LiteralChoice

Sorry about that.  Stale example files.  Current version
in the repository has fixed this.


Thank you for your interest in Dragonfly.  This definitely
motivates me to continue developing it for other people,
besides myself.

Chris

From remco at maykinmedia.nl  Thu Mar  5 18:47:46 2009
From: remco at maykinmedia.nl (Remco Wendt)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 18:47:46 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Dragonfly, is SDK 5.1 good enough ?
In-Reply-To: <15427fc70903050943k24753283md4bceb4ff71a41db@mail.gmail.com>
References: <15427fc70903050943k24753283md4bceb4ff71a41db@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a6d21a790903050947g62c3a5c7lc84840a5ef6cf012@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 6:43 PM, Christo Butcher <christo at twizzy.biz> wrote:

>
> Thank you for your interest in Dragonfly.  This definitely
> motivates me to continue developing it for other people,
> besides myself.
>

If you have the time... I would be _very_ interested in seeing how you have
mastered the way of the dragon ;) and see how you have changed your workflow
into being speech based.
Remco
-- 
Maykin Media
Damrak 355, 1012 ZJ Amsterdam
tel.: +31 (0)6 187 967 06
http://www.maykinmedia.nl
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From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Thu Mar  5 19:47:37 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 19:47:37 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Django or something else ?
In-Reply-To: <e0af74830903042358r5df2a2cdr466276d87c37e2c8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>	<e0af74830903031228n267b9230wc84d0661d08eb71d@mail.gmail.com>	<64dc288e0903040013o3359c8a9yb2d94fa39241c76a@mail.gmail.com>	<49AEFD0D.40904@gmail.com>
	<e0af74830903042358r5df2a2cdr466276d87c37e2c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49B01E49.1040803@gmail.com>

hallo Tim,

Tim Molendijk wrote:
>
>     1. if you write a message in Dutch to this list, there's a good
>     chance it will be rejected as spam ;-)
>
>
> Raar, nooit last van gehad.
vreemde conclusie ...
"omdat IK er nooit last van heb gehad, is het raar"  ?
>
>     2. there are too many choices for a webframe work
>
>
> Er is tegenwoordig 'te veel' keuze in bijna alles (ook in 
> aardbeienjam). Laat je daardoor niet verlammen, de perfecte keuze 
> bestaat niet. Gewoon beetje rondneuzen, beetje advies inwinnen en 
> vervolgens op gevoel een keuze maken.
vandaar mijn vraag ;-)
>  
>
>     3. my short search on the web, where Web2Py was in favorite to
>     Django, might draw a wrong conclusion
>
>  
> Zie punt 2 -- er bestaat geen perfecte keuze, evenmin een foute 
> conclusie dus.
vreemde conclusies, bestaan die dan wel  ? ;-)
>  
>
>     4. Django might be far too heavy for my puposes
>
>  
> Waarschijnlijk wel, maar desondanks de moeite waard als je in de 
> toekomst meer webprojecten verwacht.
goed punt, deze toepassing zie ik al een jaar of 5 op me af komen,
en ik zie nog steeds geen andere web toepassingen,
maar dat kan natuurlijk mijn beperkte visie zijn ;-)
>
>     5. I'll probably first have to read some books about webframe
>     works (in general)
>
>  
> Zou ik niet doen, een 'framework' is niks meer dan een hoopje 
> samengeklitte componenten en een catchy slogan. Begin gewoon eens met 
> de Django tutorial 
> (http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/intro/tutorial01/), is goed te 
> behappen en geeft een leuk voorzetje van wat er mogelijk is.
>
>     In the mean while I bumped into PyJamas, which might give me
>     enough power.
>
>
> Dat kende ik nog niet, ziet er erg interessant uit! Zeker aangezien ik 
> sinds kort wel eens overweeg om wat met GWT te gaan doen naar nogal 
> opzie tegen Java. (Overigens zie ik niet hoe Pyjamas een vervanging 
> van een webframework zou zijn, volgens mij is het eerder een mogelijke 
> (client-side) aanvulling.)
Zou goed kunnen,
aangezien ik een web-leek ben, weet ik ook niet precies wat ik nodig heb.
Wel moet er eerlijksheid halve bij zeggen, dat het vragenlijstje waar ik 
het over heb,
niet een simpele survey is,
maar eerder een vragenlijst, waarbij je het advies krijgt een lunch 
pakket mee te nemen.
hier wat specs
- de vragenlijsten worden gebruikt voor het stellen van diagnoses
- de layout van de vragen moet zoveel mogelijk overeen komen met de 
papieren versie, omdat de meeste normen gebaseerd zijn op papieren scores
- je moet denken aan zo'n 2000 vragen uit een set van zo'n 30000
- de vragen worden dynamisch bepaald aan de hand van de reeds gegeven 
antwoorden en het stadium van de therapie.
- omdat het patienten informatie betreft moet er een hoge mate van 
security zijn (Soap sessie, https ?? )
- de vragenlijst moet gepauzeerd kunnen worden
- de resultaten moeten aan een bestaande patient database worden toegevoegd
- het ziekenhuis netwerk waarin de informatie uiteindelijk terecht komt 
is in hoge mate afgeschermd van de buitenwereld (ja Ab Klink ziet dat 
blijkbaar anders ;-)

groeten,
Stef


From vm at klankschap.nl  Sat Mar  7 14:41:10 2009
From: vm at klankschap.nl (Floris van Manen)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 14:41:10 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] fast & simple ?
In-Reply-To: <ADC8B31E-AF49-4504-98D1-BDB0B6F98EE3@jasper.es>
References: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>	<e0af74830903031228n267b9230wc84d0661d08eb71d@mail.gmail.com>	<64dc288e0903040013o3359c8a9yb2d94fa39241c76a@mail.gmail.com>	<49AEFD0D.40904@gmail.com>
	<944CD7FD-5D78-4C1B-A0EC-9DBC9B0FB7DB@klankschap.nl>
	<49AF07EE.5000003@gmail.com>
	<A5EC9217-2D13-41C3-84FB-C49E37FBA7A3@klankschap.nl>
	<ADC8B31E-AF49-4504-98D1-BDB0B6F98EE3@jasper.es>
Message-ID: <8AE62EFB-F38B-4F43-B51F-A289F0E8D1D0@klankschap.nl>



On Mar 5, 2009, at 08:55, Jasper Spaans wrote:

>
> >>> import BTrees
> >>> a = BTrees.IOBTree.IOBTree()
> >>> a[0] = 1
> >>> a[2] = 3
> >>> a.maxKey(1)
> 0
> >>> a.minKey(1)
> 2
>
> en je kan los met die interpolatie.


Om niet meteen eerst zope te hoeven installeren zou het met de bisect  
module ook moeten lukken:
Maar daar gaat iets mis (denk ik) want zowel linksom als rechtsom  
krijg je een zelfde waarde.
Rechts is (volgens mij) ??n punt te hoog...
Maar misschien begrijp ik het (nog) niet...
de uitkomst is hier in alle gevallen 2

from bisect import *
a = [0.30, 0.44, 0.66, 0.75, 0.85]
print bisect_left(a, 0.50)
print bisect_right(a, 0.50)

b = [30, 44, 66, 75, 85]
print bisect_left(b, 50)
print bisect_right(b, 50)



.Floris




From fjaspers at xs4all.nl  Sat Mar  7 16:23:52 2009
From: fjaspers at xs4all.nl (fjaspers at xs4all.nl)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 16:23:52 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [python-nl] fast & simple ?
Message-ID: <54555.213.84.114.6.1236439432.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>

Volgens pyDoc geven beide bisect methoden de index in een gesorteerde
lijst waar een nieuwe waarde ingevoerd moet worden, zodanig dat de lijst
gesorteerd blijft.

Slechts als de waarde al voor komt is er een verschil tussen bisect_left
en bisect_right.

bisect_left geeft in dat geval de index voor het (de) element(en) in de
lijst met de gelijke waarde, bisect_right geeft dan de index achter het
(de) element(en) in de lijst met de zelfde waarde.

>>> from bisect import *
>>> a = [0.30, 0.44, 0.66, 0.75, 0.85]

>>> bisect_left(a, 0.44)   => 1
>>> bisect_right(a, 0.44)  => 2

>>> bisect_left(a, 0.50)   => 2
>>> bisect_right(a, 0.50)  => 2


Om jou probleem aan te pakken, zou je dan zowel een bisect_right, als een
bisect_left moeten doen met de FACT waarde. Als die aan elkaar gelijk zijn
komt de FACT waarde niet voor en moet je interpoleren, als ze niet aan
elkaar gelijk zijn komt de FACT waarde precies voor, en kan je die
gebruiken.

Tenminste zo begrijp ik het allemaal. :)

Frans Jaspers






From christo at twizzy.biz  Sat Mar  7 20:36:14 2009
From: christo at twizzy.biz (Christo Butcher)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 20:36:14 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Dragonfly, is SDK 5.1 good enough ?
In-Reply-To: <15427fc70903050943k24753283md4bceb4ff71a41db@mail.gmail.com>
References: <15427fc70903050943k24753283md4bceb4ff71a41db@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <15427fc70903071136s54680f79lfbcf08f617e06d06@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/5/09, Christo Butcher <christo at twizzy.biz> wrote:

>> SAPI 5.1 zou erg aantrekkelijk zijn, omdat deze vrij
>> verkrijgbaar is !
>
> Actually, SAPI 5.1 is sufficient.  One of my test machines
> runs Windows XP and SAPI 5.1, and I run (and use)
> Dragonfly-based voice-commands on it.  But, and here is
> the problem, for this to work correctly I have to install
> a speech SDK which *used to be* available for free from
> Microsoft.  The filename was SpeechSDK51.exe.  The
> download page from Microsoft has disappeared, and I'm not
> sure why.  Occasionally I see people writing that this SDK
> is now part of the complete Windows SDK, or something like
> that.  I haven't figured this out yet, and don't know
> right now what you should do to get that speech SDK
> installed.
>
> (If you really want to try this out, I have that original
> file lying around.  I could send it to anybody interested.
> But in the long run, it would of course be nice to know
> what Microsoft is up to.)

Good news for people with Windows XP: Microsoft has made the speech
SDK I referred to above available once again.  It can be downloaded
here:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=5e86ec97-40a7-453f-b0ee-6583171b4530

Stef, if you try this please let me know how it works out.  Thanks,

-- Christo.

From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Sun Mar  8 16:23:46 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 16:23:46 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Dragonfly, is SDK 5.1 good enough ?
In-Reply-To: <15427fc70903071136s54680f79lfbcf08f617e06d06@mail.gmail.com>
References: <15427fc70903050943k24753283md4bceb4ff71a41db@mail.gmail.com>
	<15427fc70903071136s54680f79lfbcf08f617e06d06@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49B3E302.7030607@gmail.com>

hi Christo / Chris ?,

Christo Butcher wrote:
> On 3/5/09, Christo Butcher <christo at twizzy.biz> wrote:
>
>   
>>> SAPI 5.1 zou erg aantrekkelijk zijn, omdat deze vrij
>>> verkrijgbaar is !
>>>       
>> Actually, SAPI 5.1 is sufficient.  One of my test machines
>> runs Windows XP and SAPI 5.1, and I run (and use)
>> Dragonfly-based voice-commands on it.  But, and here is
>> the problem, for this to work correctly I have to install
>> a speech SDK which *used to be* available for free from
>> Microsoft.  The filename was SpeechSDK51.exe.  The
>> download page from Microsoft has disappeared, and I'm not
>> sure why.  Occasionally I see people writing that this SDK
>> is now part of the complete Windows SDK, or something like
>> that.  I haven't figured this out yet, and don't know
>> right now what you should do to get that speech SDK
>> installed.
>>
>> (If you really want to try this out, I have that original
>> file lying around.  I could send it to anybody interested.
>> But in the long run, it would of course be nice to know
>> what Microsoft is up to.)
>>     
>
> Good news for people with Windows XP: Microsoft has made the speech
> SDK I referred to above available once again.  It can be downloaded
> here:
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=5e86ec97-40a7-453f-b0ee-6583171b4530
>
>   
Yes it's very hard to find and after you've installed it, it's 
registered as SAPI 5.0, but that's no problem.
> Stef, if you try this please let me know how it works out.  Thanks,
>
>   
after downloading the latest version from your repositry,
the problems were solved.
We didn't have much time to play with it,
but already have a few suggestions ;-)

- when working in a program, let's say Notepad, it recognizes commands 
from Excel. In our opinion it shouldn't. This could be done by looking 
at the caption of the active application. (and we forget the situations 
were we are working on a file called "outlook-notes.txt" in Notepad ;-) 
. Still even better it would be to recognize some of the commands of 
other programs, e.g. I'm working in Notepad and I want to write an email.

- it should be handy if there was a command for enabling / disabling the 
speech recognition

- the engine hears itself ;-). In practical situation where you're 
wearing a headset, that's not a problem, but with demonstrations it's bad.

Don't pay too much attention to these remarks, as they were made after 
10 minutes of testing !
If we get some more experiences we'll let you know.

cheers,
Stef


From erwin at eight.nl  Thu Mar 12 11:58:19 2009
From: erwin at eight.nl (Erwin Elling - Eight Media)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:58:19 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] samenvatting Arnhem
In-Reply-To: <e0af74830903021703h4ca42c3dt5908002157f6800a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2b52d5bf0903021119k269cdcedi53ed6a6bf510697f@mail.gmail.com>
	<e0af74830903021703h4ca42c3dt5908002157f6800a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <64dc288e0903120358k2c6feb0s331a87c073df39bb@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Ik vond het overigens een mooie meet-up, nog bedankt Erwin, David en co!
>
>
Beetje laat, maar niet minder gemeend:
Leuk die blogposts! Wij zijn ook enthousiast over de meet-up.
Goed om het hier te organiseren en leuk dat jullie er allemaal waren!
Zijn er nog mensen die foto's hebben gemaakt?

Cheers,
Erwin

-- 
Eight Media

Velperweg 95, 6824 HH Arnhem
Postbus 5005, 6802 EA Arnhem

Tel: +31 26 384 24 40
Web: http://www.eight.nl
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From vm at klankschap.nl  Thu Mar 12 13:35:43 2009
From: vm at klankschap.nl (Floris van Manen)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 13:35:43 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] samenvatting Arnhem
In-Reply-To: <64dc288e0903120358k2c6feb0s331a87c073df39bb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2b52d5bf0903021119k269cdcedi53ed6a6bf510697f@mail.gmail.com>
	<e0af74830903021703h4ca42c3dt5908002157f6800a@mail.gmail.com>
	<64dc288e0903120358k2c6feb0s331a87c073df39bb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <96F75E47-0943-4B3D-B975-062106F7BB1E@klankschap.nl>


On Mar 12, 2009, at 11:58, Erwin Elling - Eight Media wrote:

> Zijn er nog mensen die foto's hebben gemaakt?


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From tim at timmolendijk.nl  Thu Mar 12 15:19:42 2009
From: tim at timmolendijk.nl (Tim Molendijk)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:19:42 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] samenvatting Arnhem
In-Reply-To: <96F75E47-0943-4B3D-B975-062106F7BB1E@klankschap.nl>
References: <2b52d5bf0903021119k269cdcedi53ed6a6bf510697f@mail.gmail.com>
	<e0af74830903021703h4ca42c3dt5908002157f6800a@mail.gmail.com>
	<64dc288e0903120358k2c6feb0s331a87c073df39bb@mail.gmail.com>
	<96F75E47-0943-4B3D-B975-062106F7BB1E@klankschap.nl>
Message-ID: <e0af74830903120719u3cb701f4uee6d67625715b8d0@mail.gmail.com>

de avond in een notendop! al zeg ik het zelf...


Op 12 maart 2009 13:35 schreef Floris van Manen <vm op klankschap.nl> het
volgende:

>
> On Mar 12, 2009, at 11:58, Erwin Elling - Eight Media wrote:
>
>  Zijn er nog mensen die foto's hebben gemaakt?
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Python-nl mailing list
> Python-nl op python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl
>
>


-- 
http://timmolendijk.nl ? http://twitter.com/timmolendijk
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From erwin at eight.nl  Thu Mar 12 15:35:49 2009
From: erwin at eight.nl (Erwin Elling - Eight Media)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:35:49 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] samenvatting Arnhem
In-Reply-To: <e0af74830903120719u3cb701f4uee6d67625715b8d0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2b52d5bf0903021119k269cdcedi53ed6a6bf510697f@mail.gmail.com>
	<e0af74830903021703h4ca42c3dt5908002157f6800a@mail.gmail.com>
	<64dc288e0903120358k2c6feb0s331a87c073df39bb@mail.gmail.com>
	<96F75E47-0943-4B3D-B975-062106F7BB1E@klankschap.nl>
	<e0af74830903120719u3cb701f4uee6d67625715b8d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <64dc288e0903120735i68ad1a20m693755ffcffa8a0c@mail.gmail.com>

2009/3/12 Tim Molendijk <tim op timmolendijk.nl>

> de avond in een notendop! al zeg ik het zelf...
>

Nou!
Bedankt Flors, ik heb de foto maar meteen in mijn blogpostje verwerkt:
http://www.eight.nl/weblog/2009/03/12/python-users-netherlands-meetup/
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From vm at klankschap.nl  Thu Mar 12 19:14:24 2009
From: vm at klankschap.nl (Floris van Manen)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:14:24 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] samenvatting Arnhem (ipv 1k woorden)
In-Reply-To: <64dc288e0903120735i68ad1a20m693755ffcffa8a0c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2b52d5bf0903021119k269cdcedi53ed6a6bf510697f@mail.gmail.com>
	<e0af74830903021703h4ca42c3dt5908002157f6800a@mail.gmail.com>
	<64dc288e0903120358k2c6feb0s331a87c073df39bb@mail.gmail.com>
	<96F75E47-0943-4B3D-B975-062106F7BB1E@klankschap.nl>
	<e0af74830903120719u3cb701f4uee6d67625715b8d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<64dc288e0903120735i68ad1a20m693755ffcffa8a0c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C665751-1B2A-4562-89AB-46C55E8F6991@klankschap.nl>


On Mar 12, 2009, at 15:35, Erwin Elling - Eight Media wrote:

> 2009/3/12 Tim Molendijk <tim at timmolendijk.nl>
> de avond in een notendop! al zeg ik het zelf...
>
> Nou!
> Bedankt Flors, ik heb de foto maar meteen in mijn blogpostje verwerkt:
> http://www.eight.nl/weblog/2009/03/12/python-users-netherlands-meetup/

ach om met Wim T Schippers te spreken, "beter geen plaatje, dan  
helemaal geen plaatje ..."

:-)
F


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Fri Mar 13 00:44:54 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 23:44:54 +0000
Subject: [python-nl] =?windows-1252?q?=5BANN=5D_EuroPython_2009_=96_Extra_?=
 =?windows-1252?q?Early_Bird_registration_ends_this_Saturday!?=
Message-ID: <49B99E76.5080609@dcuktec.org>

Newsflash!
A large number of Pythoneers has signed up already, for this reason
alone it is worth booking!

If you already know you are joining the conference, why not save some
money in these financially uncertain times and take advantage of the
extra early bird rate!

The extra early bird rate is just 95 GBP for the conference (70 GBP
for the tutorials) and ends this Saturday 14th of March.

You can book your conference and hotel all at once. Register at
http://www.europython.eu/registration/ .

The talks submitted so far promise to be very interesting and practical.
We have room for more though, go to
http://www.europython.eu/talks/cfp/ for this year's themes, and
submissions criteria, the deadline is on 5th April 2009.

Sponsors
A unique opportunity to affiliate with the prestigious EuroPython 
conference!
http://www.europython.eu/sponsors/

Spread the Word
Improve our publicity by distributing this announcement in your corner
of the community, coordinating this with the organisers is highly
appreciated. http://www.europython.eu/contact/

General Information
For more information about the conference, please visit
http://www.europython.eu/ .

Looking forward to seeing you!

From remco at maykinmedia.nl  Fri Mar 13 11:24:46 2009
From: remco at maykinmedia.nl (Remco Wendt)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:24:46 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] samenvatting Arnhem
In-Reply-To: <64dc288e0903120735i68ad1a20m693755ffcffa8a0c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2b52d5bf0903021119k269cdcedi53ed6a6bf510697f@mail.gmail.com>
	<e0af74830903021703h4ca42c3dt5908002157f6800a@mail.gmail.com>
	<64dc288e0903120358k2c6feb0s331a87c073df39bb@mail.gmail.com>
	<96F75E47-0943-4B3D-B975-062106F7BB1E@klankschap.nl>
	<e0af74830903120719u3cb701f4uee6d67625715b8d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<64dc288e0903120735i68ad1a20m693755ffcffa8a0c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a6d21a790903130324j7c60ec6fr9f0acc6e453901d7@mail.gmail.com>

2009/3/12 Erwin Elling - Eight Media <erwin at eight.nl>

> 2009/3/12 Tim Molendijk <tim at timmolendijk.nl>
>
>> de avond in een notendop! al zeg ik het zelf...
>>
>
> Nou!
> Bedankt Flors, ik heb de foto maar meteen in mijn blogpostje verwerkt:
> http://www.eight.nl/weblog/2009/03/12/python-users-netherlands-meetup/


nice!  Voeg dat soort artikelen vooral ook even toe aan de PUN wiki:
nl.python.org

Tot mei!
Remco
-- 
Maykin Media
Damrak 355, 1012 ZJ Amsterdam
tel.: +31 (0)6 187 967 06
http://www.maykinmedia.nl
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From christo at twizzy.biz  Sun Mar 15 17:28:23 2009
From: christo at twizzy.biz (Christo Butcher)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 17:28:23 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Dragonfly, is SDK 5.1 good enough ?
In-Reply-To: <49B3E302.7030607@gmail.com>
References: <15427fc70903050943k24753283md4bceb4ff71a41db@mail.gmail.com>
	<15427fc70903071136s54680f79lfbcf08f617e06d06@mail.gmail.com>
	<49B3E302.7030607@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <15427fc70903150928v115a5377n2070a60bb6b72c06@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Stef,

On 3/8/09, Stef Mientki <stef.mientki at gmail.com> wrote:
> after downloading the latest version from your repositry,
> the problems were solved.
> We didn't have much time to play with it,
> but already have a few suggestions ;-)

Good to you that your earlier problems have been resolved.  :-)


> - when working in a program, let's say Notepad, it recognizes commands
> from Excel. In our opinion it shouldn't. This could be done by looking
> at the caption of the active application. (and we forget the situations
> were we are working on a file called "outlook-notes.txt" in Notepad ;-)
> . Still even better it would be to recognize some of the commands of
> other programs, e.g. I'm working in Notepad and I want to write an email.

Indeed, I agree with you.  The framework to do this is an important
part of Dragonfly.  All the "process_begin" methods of Grammar and
Rule objects are passed the foreground application's executable path,
window title, and window handle.  Within these methods they can decide
whether they want to be active or not within a given context.

The reason it wasn't working for the SAPI backend was that MS's
documentation is not always as clear as I need it to be.  I'm
reasonably sure that I fixed this now (after many hours of
frustratingly helpless trial and error), changes committed this
afternoon.  There's only one caveat: it sometimes takes one
phrase-start-detection for rule activation/deactivation to take
effect.  This means that when working within one context (application,
dialogue,...) the correct rules and only those rules will be active
now, but when you switch to a different context the old rules will
only be deactivated and the new rules activated after one recognition
based on the old rules.  (Don't ask me why, Dragonfly's state says
that the correct rules are active, but for some reason MS's doesn't
agree for the first recognition but does after that.)

(By the way, none of these problems occur when using the DNS backend.)


> - it should be handy if there was a command for enabling / disabling the
> speech recognition

Good feature request.  Noted.


> - the engine hears itself ;-). In practical situation where you're
> wearing a headset, that's not a problem, but with demonstrations it's bad.

But... uhm... this is actually... ahh... a Feature!  :-)
Isn't it clever that it can hear and understand its own voice??  So,
well, yes, you're right that in most practical situations you won't
want the SR engine to repeat what it heard every time it hears
anything.  I'd put that in the SAPI backend for development/debugging
purposes.  It's been removed (commented out) now, so you won't have
this problem anymore if you update your source check out.

Kind regards,
-- Chris/Christo (whichever you prefer)

From winfried at tilanus.com  Mon Mar 16 16:15:53 2009
From: winfried at tilanus.com (Winfried Tilanus)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:15:53 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Django or something else ?
In-Reply-To: <49B01E49.1040803@gmail.com>
References: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>	<e0af74830903031228n267b9230wc84d0661d08eb71d@mail.gmail.com>	<64dc288e0903040013o3359c8a9yb2d94fa39241c76a@mail.gmail.com>	<49AEFD0D.40904@gmail.com>	<e0af74830903042358r5df2a2cdr466276d87c37e2c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<49B01E49.1040803@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49BE6D29.20300@tilanus.com>

On 03/05/2009 Stef Mientki wrote:

Hoi,

> - de vragenlijsten worden gebruikt voor het stellen van diagnoses
> - de layout van de vragen moet zoveel mogelijk overeen komen met de papieren versie, omdat de meeste normen gebaseerd zijn op papieren scores
> - je moet denken aan zo'n 2000 vragen uit een set van zo'n 30000
> - de vragen worden dynamisch bepaald aan de hand van de reeds gegeven antwoorden en het stadium van de therapie.
> - omdat het patienten informatie betreft moet er een hoge mate van security zijn (Soap sessie, https ?? )
> - de vragenlijst moet gepauzeerd kunnen worden
> - de resultaten moeten aan een bestaande patient database worden toegevoegd 

Net terug van een weekje weggeweest, zie ik dit bericht: Ik heb wel wat
ervaring met het uitvoeren van dit soort questionaires via een website.
Een paar dingen die me meteen opvallen:
- Je stelt best hoge eisen. Bereid je voor op een project dat een
behoorlijke complexiteit met zich mee gaat brengen. Denk daarbij
bijvoorbeeld aan het combineren van de eis van veiligheid en dat er
gepauzeerd moet kunnen worden of aan het toevoegen aan een bestaande
dossier.
- 2000 vragen is *veel*, het is niet eenvoudig om zo een lijst voor de
invullers hanteerbaar te houden, zeker niet als je een papieren lay-out
probeert te copi?ren.

Als je hier dieper op in wilt gaan, is het misschien goed om mij
off-list te mailen: ik geloof dat dit wat specialistisch en
tegelijkertijd niet python-specifiek is voor op deze lijst.

groet,

Winfried

-- 
http://www.tilanus.com
xmpp:winfried op jabber.xs4all.nl
tel. 015-3613996 / 06-23303960
fax. 015-3614406

From mendes150 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 16:53:16 2009
From: mendes150 at gmail.com (Richard Mendes)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:53:16 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Django or something else ?
In-Reply-To: <49BE6D29.20300@tilanus.com>
References: <49AD890A.2020405@gmail.com>
	<e0af74830903031228n267b9230wc84d0661d08eb71d@mail.gmail.com>
	<64dc288e0903040013o3359c8a9yb2d94fa39241c76a@mail.gmail.com>
	<49AEFD0D.40904@gmail.com>
	<e0af74830903042358r5df2a2cdr466276d87c37e2c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<49B01E49.1040803@gmail.com> <49BE6D29.20300@tilanus.com>
Message-ID: <b23810810903160853s581e88aax72f4c2d7ba41bb56@mail.gmail.com>

Hallo Stef,
Ik lees net onderstaand bericht en dit lijkt op resultaten opslaan van een
medische studie.
Zelf ben ik alleen maar bezig met dit soort studies op een goede manier te
managen en dat is goed te doen met django.
Het grootste struikel blok wat ik hierin zie is het toevoegen aan een
bestaande patienten database, het kan zijn dat deze niet geend is op dit
soort informatie en dat kan een probleem opleveren.

Mocht je meer informatie willen kan je me altijd mailen,

groet,

Richard Mendes
Bioinformatician Erasmus MC


2009/3/16 Winfried Tilanus <winfried at tilanus.com>

> On 03/05/2009 Stef Mientki wrote:
>
> Hoi,
>
> > - de vragenlijsten worden gebruikt voor het stellen van diagnoses
> > - de layout van de vragen moet zoveel mogelijk overeen komen met de
> papieren versie, omdat de meeste normen gebaseerd zijn op papieren scores
> > - je moet denken aan zo'n 2000 vragen uit een set van zo'n 30000
> > - de vragen worden dynamisch bepaald aan de hand van de reeds gegeven
> antwoorden en het stadium van de therapie.
> > - omdat het patienten informatie betreft moet er een hoge mate van
> security zijn (Soap sessie, https ?? )
> > - de vragenlijst moet gepauzeerd kunnen worden
> > - de resultaten moeten aan een bestaande patient database worden
> toegevoegd
>
> Net terug van een weekje weggeweest, zie ik dit bericht: Ik heb wel wat
> ervaring met het uitvoeren van dit soort questionaires via een website.
> Een paar dingen die me meteen opvallen:
> - Je stelt best hoge eisen. Bereid je voor op een project dat een
> behoorlijke complexiteit met zich mee gaat brengen. Denk daarbij
> bijvoorbeeld aan het combineren van de eis van veiligheid en dat er
> gepauzeerd moet kunnen worden of aan het toevoegen aan een bestaande
> dossier.
> - 2000 vragen is *veel*, het is niet eenvoudig om zo een lijst voor de
> invullers hanteerbaar te houden, zeker niet als je een papieren lay-out
> probeert te copi?ren.
>
> Als je hier dieper op in wilt gaan, is het misschien goed om mij
> off-list te mailen: ik geloof dat dit wat specialistisch en
> tegelijkertijd niet python-specifiek is voor op deze lijst.
>
> groet,
>
> Winfried
>
> --
> http://www.tilanus.com
> xmpp:winfried at jabber.xs4all.nl <xmpp%3Awinfried at jabber.xs4all.nl>
> tel. 015-3613996 / 06-23303960
> fax. 015-3614406
> _______________________________________________
> Python-nl mailing list
> Python-nl at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl
>
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From armijn at uulug.nl  Wed Mar 25 23:36:00 2009
From: armijn at uulug.nl (Armijn Hemel)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:36:00 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] UKUUG Summer Event
Message-ID: <1238020560.3153.27.camel@cletus.local>

UKUUG Summer Conference 2009 - http://summer2009.ukuug.net

Friday 7th (Tutorials), Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th August Conference 

Venue: Birmingham Conservatoire, School of Music, Birmingham City University, 
Paradise Place, Fletchers Walk, Birmingham B3 3HG       

Call For Papers

Summer 2009 will take place at the Birmingham Conservatoire from Friday 7th to 
Sunday 9th August. The conference this year will have a choice of conference 
streams, and we are particularly keen to get other groups and projects 
involved.

Friday 7th August is devoted to tutorials, provisionally including:

Using the GIMP
MythTV
Setting up a VoIP phone system


We invite speakers on all aspects of UNIX, GNU/LINUX, & other free/open-source 
projects, including:

GNU/Linux - Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, OpenSUSE
Telephony - Asterisk, OpenMoko, Android
TeX and typesetting
Drupal
Games
System and network management ? OpenNMS, ...
FLOSS languages - Eiffel, Python, Lua, Perl et al
Databases ? MySQL, PostgreSQL, ...
Other ? mapping, ...

Any topic likely to be of interest to Free Software communities ? developers. 
Administrators, and enthusiasts -- will be considered. 

Abstracts:  Abstracts for a conference paper or a tutorial should include a 
short biography, and be about 250-500 words long. Final papers should 
normally last about 45 minutes, including 10 minutes for questions and 
answers. If you need more time for your presentation, please tell us when you 
submit your abstract. 

Abstracts should be submitted to the conference organisers electronically to:  
summer2009 at ukuug.org

We shall acknowledge all submissions.

Significant Dates       Closing date for abstracts              8th May 2009 
                                Accepted authors notified by    18th May 2009
                                Final papers due by                     20th 
July 2009

Particular queries should be sent either to the UKUUG office, or to the Summer 
2009 programme committee at summer2009 at ukuug.org

Sponsors & Exhibitors: To keep the conference fees low, we are seeking event 
sponsors and exhibitors.  For further information about sponsoring, 
exhibiting, or attending the event please contact the UKUUG office.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
armijn at uulug.nl | http://www.uulug.nl/ | UULug: Utrecht Linux Users Group
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


From perica.zivkovic at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 14:52:47 2009
From: perica.zivkovic at gmail.com (Perica Zivkovic)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:52:47 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Portable Python 1.1 released
Message-ID: <b0fd213a0903270652j5fa0b053j779a61922932235@mail.gmail.com>

Dear people,
I would like to announce new release of Portable Python.

Included in this release:
-------------------------
This release contains three different packages for three different Python
versions ? Python 2.5.4, Python 2.6.1 and Python 3.0.1. Packages are totally
independent and can run side-by-side each other or any other Python
installation. Software included (in alphabetical order per package):

Portable Python 1.1 based on Python 2.5.4
- Django-1.0.2-final
- IPython-0.9.1
- Matplotlib-0.98.5.2
- Numpy-1.2.1
- PIL-1.1.6
- Py2exe-0.6.9
- PyGame-1.8.1
- PyReadline-1.5
- PyScripter v1.9.9.6
- PyWin32-212
- Rpyc-2.60
- Scipy-0.7.0b1
- SPE-0.8.4.c
- VPython-3.2.11
- wxPython-unicode-2.8.9.1

Portable Python 1.1 based on Python 2.6.1
- Django-1.0.2-final
- IPython-0.9.1
- PIL-1.1.6
- Py2exe-0.6.9
- PyGame-1.8.1
- PyReadline-1.5
- PyScripter v1.9.9.6
- PyWin32-212
- Rpyc-2.60
- SPE-0.8.4.c
- wxPython-unicode-2.8.9.1

Portable Python 1.1 based on Python 3.0.1
- PyScripter v1.9.9.6
- Rpyc-2.60

Installation and use:
---------------------
After downloading entire distribution or specific Python version package,
run the installer, select the target folder and you are done! In the main
folder you will find shortcuts for selected applications in that package.
Some of the most popular free Python IDE?s come preinstalled and
preconfigured with Portable Python. How to use and configure them further
please consult their documentation or project sites.

kind regards,

Perica Zivkovic
http://www.PortablePython.com
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From spe.stani.be at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 17:29:55 2009
From: spe.stani.be at gmail.com (Stani)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:29:55 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Python munt op franse televisie
In-Reply-To: <b0fd213a0903270652j5fa0b053j779a61922932235@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b0fd213a0903270652j5fa0b053j779a61922932235@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1238171395.12820.44.camel@blue>

Morgen 28/3 om 18h30 op de nationale televisiezender FR3
(http://info.france3.fr/avenue-europe) komt er een reportage over het 10
jarig bestaan van de euro. Mijn munt is uitgekozen tot een van de meest
opzienbarende ontwerpen en ik ben hiervoor ge?nterviewd.

Lees meer op:
http://pythonide.blogspot.com/2009/03/free-software-python-coin-on-national.html

Dus kijken als je FR3 kan ontvangen!


From vm at klankschap.nl  Fri Mar 27 19:15:07 2009
From: vm at klankschap.nl (Floris van Manen)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 19:15:07 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Portable Python 1.1 released
In-Reply-To: <b0fd213a0903270652j5fa0b053j779a61922932235@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b0fd213a0903270652j5fa0b053j779a61922932235@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D1C6C46C-500C-4D7B-8C01-B91EA896ECF8@klankschap.nl>

where is the OSX version ?

F

On Mar 27, 2009, at 14:52, Perica Zivkovic wrote:

> Dear people,
>
> I would like to announce new release of Portable Python.
>
> Included in this release:
> -------------------------
> This release contains three different packages for three different  
> Python versions ? Python 2.5.4, Python 2.6.1 and Python 3.0.1.  
> Packages are totally independent and can run side-by-side each other  
> or any other Python installation. Software included (in alphabetical  
> order per package):
>
> Portable Python 1.1 based on Python 2.5.4
> - Django-1.0.2-final
> - IPython-0.9.1
> - Matplotlib-0.98.5.2
> - Numpy-1.2.1
> - PIL-1.1.6
> - Py2exe-0.6.9
> - PyGame-1.8.1
> - PyReadline-1.5
> - PyScripter v1.9.9.6
> - PyWin32-212
> - Rpyc-2.60
> - Scipy-0.7.0b1
> - SPE-0.8.4.c
> - VPython-3.2.11
> - wxPython-unicode-2.8.9.1
>
> Portable Python 1.1 based on Python 2.6.1
> - Django-1.0.2-final
> - IPython-0.9.1
> - PIL-1.1.6
> - Py2exe-0.6.9
> - PyGame-1.8.1
> - PyReadline-1.5
> - PyScripter v1.9.9.6
> - PyWin32-212
> - Rpyc-2.60
> - SPE-0.8.4.c
> - wxPython-unicode-2.8.9.1
>
> Portable Python 1.1 based on Python 3.0.1
> - PyScripter v1.9.9.6
> - Rpyc-2.60
>
> Installation and use:
> ---------------------
> After downloading entire distribution or specific Python version  
> package, run the installer, select the target folder and you are  
> done! In the main folder you will find shortcuts for selected  
> applications in that package. Some of the most popular free Python  
> IDE?s come preinstalled and preconfigured with Portable Python. How  
> to use and configure them further please consult their documentation  
> or project sites.
>
> kind regards,
>
> Perica Zivkovic
> http://www.PortablePython.com
> _______________________________________________
> Python-nl mailing list
> Python-nl at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl


From perica.zivkovic at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 19:23:58 2009
From: perica.zivkovic at gmail.com (Perica Zivkovic)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 19:23:58 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Portable Python 1.1 released
In-Reply-To: <b0fd213a0903271123j72f9465cu11463cbe46f8c150@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b0fd213a0903270652j5fa0b053j779a61922932235@mail.gmail.com>
	<D1C6C46C-500C-4D7B-8C01-B91EA896ECF8@klankschap.nl>
	<b0fd213a0903271123j72f9465cu11463cbe46f8c150@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b0fd213a0903271123x65259126re7e00ef71833d345@mail.gmail.com>

Portable python is windows only for now.

Regards

Perica

On Mar 27, 2009 7:15 PM, "Floris van Manen" <vm at klankschap.nl> wrote:

where is the OSX version ?

F

On Mar 27, 2009, at 14:52, Perica Zivkovic wrote:

> > Dear people, > > I would like to announce new release of Portable Python.
> > > Included in this rel...
> _______________________________________________
> Python-nl mailing list
> Python-nl at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl
>

_______________________________________________
Python-nl mailing list
Python-nl at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl
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From Rick at youtellme.com  Sat Mar 28 12:49:30 2009
From: Rick at youtellme.com (Rick van Hattem)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 12:49:30 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Portable Python 1.1 released
In-Reply-To: <D1C6C46C-500C-4D7B-8C01-B91EA896ECF8@klankschap.nl>
References: <b0fd213a0903270652j5fa0b053j779a61922932235@mail.gmail.com>
	<D1C6C46C-500C-4D7B-8C01-B91EA896ECF8@klankschap.nl>
Message-ID: <200903281249.31282.Rick@youtellme.com>

On Friday 27 March 2009 19:15:07 Floris van Manen wrote:
> where is the OSX version ?
>
> F
>

Would that really be needed? With OSX you can easily get a compiler working 
which makes easy_install a good option, with Windows it would be a lot more 
work to get a compiler and all other perequisites to install all these 
packages.

On my BSD/Linux machines I've never had the feeling that I needed a package 
like this, the OSX experience should be similar.

From perica.zivkovic at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 13:26:35 2009
From: perica.zivkovic at gmail.com (Perica Zivkovic)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 13:26:35 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Portable Python 1.1 released
In-Reply-To: <b0fd213a0903280523x71430d61l64cf8e6f2cba440a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b0fd213a0903270652j5fa0b053j779a61922932235@mail.gmail.com>
	<D1C6C46C-500C-4D7B-8C01-B91EA896ECF8@klankschap.nl>
	<200903281249.31282.Rick@youtellme.com>
	<b0fd213a0903280523x71430d61l64cf8e6f2cba440a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b0fd213a0903280526sc223ac1qce56fc4d710fcfd@mail.gmail.com>

90-95 % of the requests I got were windows. If there is need fot linux or
mac version I can look into it.

Cheers

Perica

On Mar 28, 2009 12:49 PM, "Rick van Hattem" <Rick at youtellme.com> wrote:

On Friday 27 March 2009 19:15:07 Floris van Manen wrote: > where is the OSX
version ? > > F >
Would that really be needed? With OSX you can easily get a compiler working
which makes easy_install a good option, with Windows it would be a lot more
work to get a compiler and all other perequisites to install all these
packages.

On my BSD/Linux machines I've never had the feeling that I needed a package
like this, the OSX experience should be similar.

_______________________________________________ Python-nl mailing list
Python-nl at python.org http://m...
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From vm at klankschap.nl  Sat Mar 28 14:09:52 2009
From: vm at klankschap.nl (Floris van Manen)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 14:09:52 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Portable Python 1.1 released
In-Reply-To: <b0fd213a0903280526sc223ac1qce56fc4d710fcfd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b0fd213a0903270652j5fa0b053j779a61922932235@mail.gmail.com>
	<D1C6C46C-500C-4D7B-8C01-B91EA896ECF8@klankschap.nl>
	<200903281249.31282.Rick@youtellme.com>
	<b0fd213a0903280523x71430d61l64cf8e6f2cba440a@mail.gmail.com>
	<b0fd213a0903280526sc223ac1qce56fc4d710fcfd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <747B6769-311B-4C28-8C0B-920F6AEF410A@klankschap.nl>


On Mar 28, 2009, at 13:26, Perica Zivkovic wrote:

> 90-95 % of the requests I got were windows. If there is need fot  
> linux or mac version I can look into it.
>
>


Sure on osx you get a standard python pre-installed.
That is not too much of a problem with XP either.
The nice thing about the portable idea, is that you get all packages  
in the correct versions.
It avoids the need to search around ...

That goes for the osx releases as well...

F


From perica.zivkovic at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 16:34:16 2009
From: perica.zivkovic at gmail.com (Perica Zivkovic)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 16:34:16 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Portable Python 1.1 released
In-Reply-To: <747B6769-311B-4C28-8C0B-920F6AEF410A@klankschap.nl>
References: <b0fd213a0903270652j5fa0b053j779a61922932235@mail.gmail.com>
	<D1C6C46C-500C-4D7B-8C01-B91EA896ECF8@klankschap.nl>
	<200903281249.31282.Rick@youtellme.com>
	<b0fd213a0903280523x71430d61l64cf8e6f2cba440a@mail.gmail.com>
	<b0fd213a0903280526sc223ac1qce56fc4d710fcfd@mail.gmail.com>
	<747B6769-311B-4C28-8C0B-920F6AEF410A@klankschap.nl>
Message-ID: <b0fd213a0903280834l686480fcp17ab31fc0bbab971@mail.gmail.com>

Even nicer thing with portable idea is that you can place it on your USB
stick and have your entire Python development environment in your pocket so
it works @home, @work, on vacation, you just need windows PC and you are
good to go.
cheers,

Perica

On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Floris van Manen <vm at klankschap.nl> wrote:

>
> On Mar 28, 2009, at 13:26, Perica Zivkovic wrote:
>
>  90-95 % of the requests I got were windows. If there is need fot linux or
>> mac version I can look into it.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Sure on osx you get a standard python pre-installed.
> That is not too much of a problem with XP either.
> The nice thing about the portable idea, is that you get all packages in the
> correct versions.
> It avoids the need to search around ...
>
> That goes for the osx releases as well...
>
> F
>
> _______________________________________________
> Python-nl mailing list
> Python-nl at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl
>
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From vm at klankschap.nl  Sat Mar 28 17:04:55 2009
From: vm at klankschap.nl (Floris van Manen)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 17:04:55 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Portable Python 1.1 released
In-Reply-To: <b0fd213a0903280834l686480fcp17ab31fc0bbab971@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b0fd213a0903270652j5fa0b053j779a61922932235@mail.gmail.com>
	<D1C6C46C-500C-4D7B-8C01-B91EA896ECF8@klankschap.nl>
	<200903281249.31282.Rick@youtellme.com>
	<b0fd213a0903280523x71430d61l64cf8e6f2cba440a@mail.gmail.com>
	<b0fd213a0903280526sc223ac1qce56fc4d710fcfd@mail.gmail.com>
	<747B6769-311B-4C28-8C0B-920F6AEF410A@klankschap.nl>
	<b0fd213a0903280834l686480fcp17ab31fc0bbab971@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7B85639D-A434-4D2B-97E8-741122F61448@klankschap.nl>


On Mar 28, 2009, at 16:34, Perica Zivkovic wrote:

> Even nicer thing with portable idea is that you can place it on your  
> USB stick and have your entire Python development environment in  
> your pocket so it works @home, @work, on vacation, you just need  
> windows PC and you are good to go.
>
>


Exactly, so where is the OSX version :-)

F


From perica.zivkovic at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 18:28:25 2009
From: perica.zivkovic at gmail.com (Perica Zivkovic)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 18:28:25 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Portable Python 1.1 released
In-Reply-To: <7B85639D-A434-4D2B-97E8-741122F61448@klankschap.nl>
References: <b0fd213a0903270652j5fa0b053j779a61922932235@mail.gmail.com>
	<D1C6C46C-500C-4D7B-8C01-B91EA896ECF8@klankschap.nl>
	<200903281249.31282.Rick@youtellme.com>
	<b0fd213a0903280523x71430d61l64cf8e6f2cba440a@mail.gmail.com>
	<b0fd213a0903280526sc223ac1qce56fc4d710fcfd@mail.gmail.com>
	<747B6769-311B-4C28-8C0B-920F6AEF410A@klankschap.nl>
	<b0fd213a0903280834l686480fcp17ab31fc0bbab971@mail.gmail.com>
	<7B85639D-A434-4D2B-97E8-741122F61448@klankschap.nl>
Message-ID: <b0fd213a0903281028y1e0dab2akff2adc275ea4996c@mail.gmail.com>

It will be on the mac when I buy one ;-) or you have some extra hardware you
can donate ? ;-)

On Mar 28, 2009 5:04 PM, "Floris van Manen" <vm at klankschap.nl> wrote:

On Mar 28, 2009, at 16:34, Perica Zivkovic wrote: > Even nicer thing with
portable idea is that yo...
Exactly, so where is the OSX version :-)

F _______________________________________________ Python-nl mailing list
Python-nl at python.org htt...
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From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 18:49:51 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 18:49:51 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Portable Python 1.1 released
In-Reply-To: <b0fd213a0903281028y1e0dab2akff2adc275ea4996c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b0fd213a0903270652j5fa0b053j779a61922932235@mail.gmail.com>	<D1C6C46C-500C-4D7B-8C01-B91EA896ECF8@klankschap.nl>	<200903281249.31282.Rick@youtellme.com>	<b0fd213a0903280523x71430d61l64cf8e6f2cba440a@mail.gmail.com>	<b0fd213a0903280526sc223ac1qce56fc4d710fcfd@mail.gmail.com>	<747B6769-311B-4C28-8C0B-920F6AEF410A@klankschap.nl>	<b0fd213a0903280834l686480fcp17ab31fc0bbab971@mail.gmail.com>	<7B85639D-A434-4D2B-97E8-741122F61448@klankschap.nl>
	<b0fd213a0903281028y1e0dab2akff2adc275ea4996c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49CE633F.8060306@gmail.com>

Perica Zivkovic wrote:
>
> It will be on the mac when I buy one ;-) or you have some extra 
> hardware you can donate ? ;-)
>
The modern virtual machines (e.g. VirtualBox) are quit good these days.
But creating for a machine you don't know is very difficult.

I'ld love to see some information about how you build it,
or to customize it,
as I need specific versions and extra libraries.

cheers,
Stef
>
>     On Mar 28, 2009 5:04 PM, "Floris van Manen" <vm at klankschap.nl
>     <mailto:vm at klankschap.nl>> wrote:
>
>     On Mar 28, 2009, at 16:34, Perica Zivkovic wrote: > Even nicer
>     thing with portable idea is that yo...
>
>     Exactly, so where is the OSX version :-)
>
>     F _______________________________________________ Python-nl
>     mailing list Python-nl at python.org <mailto:Python-nl at python.org> htt...
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Python-nl mailing list
> Python-nl at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl
>   


From perica.zivkovic at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 18:53:05 2009
From: perica.zivkovic at gmail.com (Perica Zivkovic)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 18:53:05 +0100
Subject: [python-nl] Portable Python 1.1 released
In-Reply-To: <49CE633F.8060306@gmail.com>
References: <b0fd213a0903270652j5fa0b053j779a61922932235@mail.gmail.com>
	<D1C6C46C-500C-4D7B-8C01-B91EA896ECF8@klankschap.nl>
	<200903281249.31282.Rick@youtellme.com>
	<b0fd213a0903280523x71430d61l64cf8e6f2cba440a@mail.gmail.com>
	<b0fd213a0903280526sc223ac1qce56fc4d710fcfd@mail.gmail.com>
	<747B6769-311B-4C28-8C0B-920F6AEF410A@klankschap.nl>
	<b0fd213a0903280834l686480fcp17ab31fc0bbab971@mail.gmail.com>
	<7B85639D-A434-4D2B-97E8-741122F61448@klankschap.nl>
	<b0fd213a0903281028y1e0dab2akff2adc275ea4996c@mail.gmail.com>
	<49CE633F.8060306@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b0fd213a0903281053w3023f0c7j6d9aebbacb1cae89@mail.gmail.com>

That information and project portal is comming. For now you can request
packages on the google group and I will see can I include it in the next
version.

Cheers

Perica

On Mar 28, 2009 6:49 PM, "Stef Mientki" <stef.mientki at gmail.com> wrote:

Perica Zivkovic wrote: > > > It will be on the mac when I buy one ;-) or you
have some extra hardwar...
The modern virtual machines (e.g. VirtualBox) are quit good these days.
But creating for a machine you don't know is very difficult.

I'ld love to see some information about how you build it,
or to customize it,
as I need specific versions and extra libraries.

cheers,
Stef

> > > >    On Mar 28, 2009 5:04 PM, "Floris van Manen" <vm at klankschap.nl
>
> >    <mailto:vm at klankschap.nl>> wrote: > >    On Mar 28, 2009, at 16:34,
> Perica Zivkovic wrote: > Ev...
>    mailing list Python-nl at python.org <mailto:Python-nl at python.org> htt...
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> > Python-nl mailing list > Python-nl at python.org
>
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl >
>

_______________________________________________

Python-nl mailing list Python-nl at python.org

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl
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