From barry at python.org  Wed May  2 15:47:48 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 09:47:48 -0400
Subject: [Python-mode] Underscore syntax class
In-Reply-To: <871wi6h43c.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
References: <871wi6h43c.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <846FF76D-2054-4963-A79D-9C78AFBFD6AD@python.org>

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On Apr 26, 2007, at 11:46 PM, Ian Zimmerman wrote:

> This has the feel of a faq.

If there was a FAQ, it would be. ;)

> Forgive, I am a python newbie, and this
> issue, as strange as it may seem to you, could stop me from studying
> python further.

I hope it doesn't.  Python is so much more than python-mode.

A question, are you an FSF Emacs user or a XEmacs user?  I ask  
because my understanding is that FSF Emacs has its own python-mode  
these days that's different than ours.  I think most of the devs on  
this list use XEmacs, though of course we want it to be FSF Emacs  
compatible.  FSF Emacs python-mode maintainer doesn't communicate  
with us, AFAIK.

As for underscore in word class, the "historical" part is that Guido  
liked it that way, so that's the way it stayed.  I understand what  
you're saying though.

My suggestion would be to try rebinding it.  It seems like you know  
enough about how to do that and what to look for in breakage, and  
probably also how to fix such breakage.  Speaking solely for myself,  
I think we would accept patches that allowed python-mode to work  
either way, perhaps keyed off a new configuration variable (py- 
historical-underscore-behavior-p ?).

If you can come up with such patches, and it works on both XEmacs and  
FSF Emacs, let us know and we'd consider applying them.

- -Barry



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From tromey at redhat.com  Wed May  2 18:36:06 2007
From: tromey at redhat.com (Tom Tromey)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 10:36:06 -0600
Subject: [Python-mode] Underscore syntax class
References: <871wi6h43c.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <m34pmv6v49.fsf@fleche.redhat.com>

>>>>> "Ian" == Ian Zimmerman <itz at madbat.mine.nu> writes:

Ian> (re-search-backward "\<while\>")

Ian> (with-syntax-table internal-python-syntax-table
Ian>         (re-search-backward "\<while\>))

FWIW in Emacs 22 you can use (re-search-backward "\\_<symbol\\_>").
>From NEWS:

    *** New regular expression operators, `\_<' and `\_>'.

    These match the beginning and end of a symbol.  A symbol is a
    non-empty sequence of either word or symbol constituent characters, as
    specified by the syntax table.

Tom


From barry at python.org  Wed May  2 23:25:28 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 17:25:28 -0400
Subject: [Python-mode] Underscore syntax class
In-Reply-To: <874pmve0in.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
References: <871wi6h43c.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
	<846FF76D-2054-4963-A79D-9C78AFBFD6AD@python.org>
	<874pmve0in.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <E1F00357-57E9-4E7C-8BA2-6329E5930BAE@python.org>

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Hi Ian,

On May 2, 2007, at 10:57 AM, Ian Zimmerman wrote:

> Barry> A question, are you an FSF Emacs user or a XEmacs user?  I ask
> Barry> because my understanding is that FSF Emacs has its own
> Barry> python-mode these days that's different than ours.  I think  
> most
> Barry> of the devs on this list use XEmacs, though of course we  
> want it
> Barry> to be FSF Emacs compatible.  FSF Emacs python-mode maintainer
> Barry> doesn't communicate with us, AFAIK.

Ah Supercite.  A blast from the past. :)

> I see.  Indeed I am a GNU Emacs user.  I decided not to use the  
> packaged
> python mode because it seems to be inextricably twined with pymacs,
> a huge beast of full IDE that I don't have a use for.  I didn't  
> know the
> module I picked up (on the Emacs wiki, I think) had an XEmacs flavour.

I wouldn't say it has a XEmacs flavor so much as that /currently/  
AFAIK, most of the developers are XEmacs users.  I didn't know about  
the pymacs thing in the FSF version, but yeah I'm with you.  IDEs are  
for kids. :)

> Barry> My suggestion would be to try rebinding it.  It seems like you
> Barry> know enough about how to do that and what to look for in
> Barry> breakage, and probably also how to fix such breakage.  Speaking
> Barry> solely for myself, I think we would accept patches that allowed
> Barry> python-mode to work either way, perhaps keyed off a new
> Barry> configuration variable (py- historical-underscore-behavior- 
> p ?).
>
> I have already done this and gone through the places where it is
> necessary to locally reset the syntax table, there are a fair number
> (about ~20).  After changing those rebinding seems to have no ill  
> effects.
>
> Barry> If you can come up with such patches, and it works on both  
> XEmacs
> Barry> and FSF Emacs, let us know and we'd consider applying them.
>
> I am not going to install XEmacs for this purpose, so I hope you can
> provide these answers which will determine if this is worth trying:
>
> 1) Does XEmacs allow specifying syntax overrides in font-lock- 
> defaults,
> like this:
>
> (setq font-lock-defaults '(python-font-lock-keywords nil nil ((?_ .  
> "w"))))

Yes, it looks like it.

> 2) Does XEmacs have the with-syntax-table macro?

Yes.

Feel free to post your changes to SF.  Hopefully one of us can get  
around to trying your changes out in XEmacs and if it looks good, we  
can apply it to current svn.

- -Barry

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From itz at madbat.mine.nu  Wed May  2 16:57:36 2007
From: itz at madbat.mine.nu (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: 02 May 2007 10:57:36 -0400
Subject: [Python-mode] Underscore syntax class
In-Reply-To: <846FF76D-2054-4963-A79D-9C78AFBFD6AD@python.org>
References: <871wi6h43c.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
	<846FF76D-2054-4963-A79D-9C78AFBFD6AD@python.org>
Message-ID: <874pmve0in.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>


Barry> A question, are you an FSF Emacs user or a XEmacs user?  I ask
Barry> because my understanding is that FSF Emacs has its own
Barry> python-mode these days that's different than ours.  I think most
Barry> of the devs on this list use XEmacs, though of course we want it
Barry> to be FSF Emacs compatible.  FSF Emacs python-mode maintainer
Barry> doesn't communicate with us, AFAIK.

I see.  Indeed I am a GNU Emacs user.  I decided not to use the packaged
python mode because it seems to be inextricably twined with pymacs,
a huge beast of full IDE that I don't have a use for.  I didn't know the
module I picked up (on the Emacs wiki, I think) had an XEmacs flavour.

Barry> My suggestion would be to try rebinding it.  It seems like you
Barry> know enough about how to do that and what to look for in
Barry> breakage, and probably also how to fix such breakage.  Speaking
Barry> solely for myself, I think we would accept patches that allowed
Barry> python-mode to work either way, perhaps keyed off a new
Barry> configuration variable (py- historical-underscore-behavior-p ?).

I have already done this and gone through the places where it is
necessary to locally reset the syntax table, there are a fair number
(about ~20).  After changing those rebinding seems to have no ill effects.

Barry> If you can come up with such patches, and it works on both XEmacs
Barry> and FSF Emacs, let us know and we'd consider applying them.

I am not going to install XEmacs for this purpose, so I hope you can
provide these answers which will determine if this is worth trying:

1) Does XEmacs allow specifying syntax overrides in font-lock-defaults,
like this:

(setq font-lock-defaults '(python-font-lock-keywords nil nil ((?_ . "w"))))

2) Does XEmacs have the with-syntax-table macro?

Thanks, Ian.

-- 
This line is completely ham.

From itz at madbat.mine.nu  Fri May  4 00:02:47 2007
From: itz at madbat.mine.nu (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: 03 May 2007 18:02:47 -0400
Subject: [Python-mode] Underscore syntax class
In-Reply-To: <E1F00357-57E9-4E7C-8BA2-6329E5930BAE@python.org>
References: <871wi6h43c.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
	<846FF76D-2054-4963-A79D-9C78AFBFD6AD@python.org>
	<874pmve0in.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
	<E1F00357-57E9-4E7C-8BA2-6329E5930BAE@python.org>
Message-ID: <871whxtvjs.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>

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From paul.rudin at ntlworld.com  Fri May 18 20:56:33 2007
From: paul.rudin at ntlworld.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 19:56:33 +0100
Subject: [Python-mode] fringe breakpoint with pdb
Message-ID: <877ir6arku.fsf@rudin.co.uk>


I'm running a recent verion emacs 22, and I'm  trying to get the
breakpoint indicators and setting in the fringe work with pdb. Should
this work out of the box? If not can anyone suggest incantations to
make it work please?


From barry at python.org  Fri May 18 21:22:53 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 15:22:53 -0400
Subject: [Python-mode] fringe breakpoint with pdb
In-Reply-To: <877ir6arku.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
References: <877ir6arku.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2AD02EED-166D-4D53-86E8-3FEA30CA419C@python.org>

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On May 18, 2007, at 2:56 PM, Paul Rudin wrote:

> I'm running a recent verion emacs 22, and I'm  trying to get the
> breakpoint indicators and setting in the fringe work with pdb. Should
> this work out of the box? If not can anyone suggest incantations to
> make it work please?

Paul, afaik you're the first person to try python-mode with emacs  
22.  I have no idea how or if it will work (I don't have emacs 22).   
Sorry to put you on your own, but let us know how it goes.

- -Barry

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