Extract lines from file, add to new files

[dn]

Every trainer, in any field, has to deal with these problems - all the 
time, and over-and-over.


On 4/02/24 06:58, Thomas Passin via Python-list wrote:
> In my view this whole thread became murky and complicated because the OP 
> did not write down the requirements for the program.  Requirements are 
> needed to communicate with other people.  An individual may not need to 
> actually write down the requirements - depending on their complexity - 
> but they always exist even if only vaguely in a person's mind.  The 
> requirements may include what tools or languages the person wants to use 
> and why.
> 
> If you are asking for help, you need to communicate the requirements to 
> the people you are asking for help from.
> 
> The OP may have thought the original post(s) contained enough of the 
> requirements but as we know by now, they didn't.

There is another possible interpretation in such situations (not 
necessarily this one): that the person is fixated on a particular 
solution (and unable/unwilling to adjust his/her thinking to consider 
more widely).

Thus, the question is not: 'here's an entire problem, how can it be 
solved', but more: 'I have a solution, and want help to implement it 
(and only it) just-so'.


The latter is an interesting psychology:

1
an experienced person who is trying to translate from one tool to 
another (Python), but discovers that a word-for-word solution is 
difficult because of the artificial-constraints they've placed on the 
situation.

2
a beginner who doesn't know what (s)he doesn't know and comes-up with an 
idea, but fails to appreciate that there is likely more than one path to 
the goal.


> The person asking for help may not realize they don't know enough to 
> write down all the requirements; an effort to do so may bring that lack 
> to visibility.

In the case of 'Beginners' this should probably be taken-as-read!

Which is why we will always find ourselves asking questions or 'please 
give more information'...


However, there are other reasons, eg corporate concerns or personality; 
why people don't want to give more information. The former is reasonable 
(have suffered from same myself). The latter may reveal that the person 
is 'difficult to deal with'...


> Mailing lists like these have a drawback that it's hard to impossible 
> for someone not involved in a thread to learn anything general from it. 
> We can write over and over again to please state clearly what you want 
> to do and where the sticking points are, but newcomers post new 
> questions without ever reading these pleas.  Then good-hearted people 
> who want to be helpful end up spending a lot of time trying to guess 
> what is actually being asked for, and maybe never find out with enough 
> clarity.  Others take a guess and then spend time working up a solution 
> that may or may not be on target.
> 
> So please! before posting a request for help, write down the 
> requirements as best you can figure them out, and then make sure that 
> they are expressed such that the readers can understand.

Unfortunately, if the person doesn't understand the problem (leave-aside 
any ideas of solution), then (s)he will not be able to clearly 
communicate same to us, in any way, shape, or form...

Which brings one to the question: if a person cannot express the problem 
clearly and completely, is (s)he suited to development work? If the 
problem is not understood, could 'the solution' ever be more than an 
exercise in hope?
(prototyping and experimentation aside)


Yes, it is frustrating to invest time and effort in helping someone, 
only for same to disappear 'into a black hole'. The lack of response 
seems to indicate a lack of respect or appreciation. Is this perhaps 
part of today's "consumer" life-style, where so few are contributors or 
creators?


On the other side of that coin: do the people who make assumptions and 
(kindly) blaze-ahead with 'a solution', actually help the conversation? 
If the assumptions are correct, yes! What if they are not?


...and don't get me started on folk who want us to do their 
training-assignments or build some application, for them!


As a slight aside: on one training-course DiscussionList/BulletinBoard 
set-up, if a trainee asked a question without a descriptive 
title/SubjectLine, eg "Python not working" or "Urgent: please help"; I 
asked them to re-post with a title that would help others in a similar 
situation find the topic - and closed the original thread.

Some found it "brutal" - probably skewing towards those who felt 
"Urgent" because they'd left things too close to deadline. Others joined 
the (later) thread because they could identify the topic and realise 
their interest in learning or contributing to the conversation...


Time pressures lead to a multitude of evils!


There's a quotation that goes something like "the poor will be with your 
always"?
(?possibly Biblical)

Whether we (here) are talking about 'poor' manners, 'poor' 
understanding, 'poor' communication skills, 'poor' Python knowledge, or 
whatever; isn't such one of the rationales for this DiscussionList?

That said, we're all volunteering our (valuable) time!
-- 
Regards,
=dn