for -- else: what was the motivation?

[avi.e.gross at gmail.com]

My point Chris was that you can have a conversation where you are exploring
and not proposing. Brainstorming, perhaps.

I was saying that there are many ways to signal things and in some
hypothetical new language, it may be implemented in novel ways that do not
break anything.

I note languages like JavaScript seem to love passing functions or setting
event handlers that may only be activated under unusual conditions.

So my POINT (and I repeat NOT a suggestion) is that I can IMAGINE ways to
add a feature to a loop, such as an extra optional argument that is called
if the loop exits from the bottom. The code you now put in the ELSE clause
might have to be in the lambda or whatever. That may not be a good fit for
Python.

What may aggravate you is that lots of people keep telling you that the ELSE
on a loop feature is not intuitive to many, sometimes even after it is
explained.

My suggestion is you should deal with that and not take it out on others.
Live and let live.

My view remains that something has been added and is available and won't
likely be changed so use it as-is or ignore it. 

But if anyone wants to make their own language, they can feel free to design
around this any way they wish. If they design an object that encapsulates a
loop and then add attributes to the object that are guaranteed to tell you
how the loop ended and run some code if it is set there, fine. 

This forum may be about Python but not exclusively. I personally often enjoy
hearing how some other system does something similar, such as discussions on
how and whether Python should allow an underscore in static numbers given
other languages do so, not always identically. We can learn from such
comparisons, for good and also for bad.

I am NOT proposing we change anything about ELSE and that was not my point.
My point was that sometimes rather than reuse an existing keyword in the
language or create new reserved keywords, there can be many possible ways to
extend functionality.

I know of languages with multiple variations on loops that do not break
existing code. If your syntax is for (...) { ...} then if you add the
ability to place some identifier ONLY in the context involved then for XXX
(...) { ...} may mean some altered functionality while YYY in the same spot
means something else and the original form continues to do what it always
did.

So are XXX and YYY keywords or something else?

Again, I do not understand why people here get so touchy.

But if it makes you happy, take me off this list! I have so many things I
need to do and free up time for.




-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list <python-list-bounces+avi.e.gross=gmail.com at python.org> On
Behalf Of Chris Angelico
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2022 6:56 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: for -- else: what was the motivation?

On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 at 08:22, <avi.e.gross at gmail.com> wrote:
> I had another crazy thought that I AM NOT ASKING anyone to do. OK?
>

Here's another proposal: Let's ban you from this mailing list. Don't worry,
I AM NOT ASKING anyone to do it. OK?

Do you see how ridiculous and pointless it is to have proposals with that
kind of caveat?

Make serious proposals that we can discuss reasonably, don't make fake
proposals and hide behind a caveat.

ChrisA
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