From gvm2121 at gmail.com  Mon Aug  1 10:16:49 2022
From: gvm2121 at gmail.com (Gonzalo V)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2022 10:16:49 -0400
Subject: Spotify technology
Message-ID: <CAF40P_3H4M2VGK2rQg5tUzst5JBnZ=ENseQU-_2z+KidO5BfZA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone!
i need a guide or advice or anything.
I few years ago, i was able to connect to my music receiver via spotify app
from my phone or laptop. You had to connect to receiver and your laptop to
the same wifi network and this is. Years later, that service was deprecated
by spotify conditions. Spotify would only work with some brands, i can
understand that.
Do you know guys, how that technology works?,
it could be replicated via python app?,
Is there some kind a documentation that could help me?.
i cant find anything because i cant find the keyword to start my research
thanks in advance.
Gonzalo form Chile.

Saludos,
Gonzalo

From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Aug  1 10:56:45 2022
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2022 15:56:45 +0100
Subject: Spotify technology
In-Reply-To: <CAF40P_3H4M2VGK2rQg5tUzst5JBnZ=ENseQU-_2z+KidO5BfZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF40P_3H4M2VGK2rQg5tUzst5JBnZ=ENseQU-_2z+KidO5BfZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52a300ea-175d-2de7-89d2-71180059cf5a@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 01/08/2022 15:16, Gonzalo V wrote:
> Hi everyone!
> i need a guide or advice or anything.
> I few years ago, i was able to connect to my music receiver via spotify app
> from my phone or laptop. You had to connect to receiver and your laptop to
> the same wifi network and this is. Years later, that service was deprecated
> by spotify conditions. Spotify would only work with some brands, i can
> understand that.
> Do you know guys, how that technology works?,
> it could be replicated via python app?,
> Is there some kind a documentation that could help me?.
> i cant find anything because i cant find the keyword to start my research
> thanks in advance.
> Gonzalo form Chile.
> 
Search for: spotify api

From Daniel-ZX.Li at hotmail.com  Mon Aug  1 08:17:09 2022
From: Daniel-ZX.Li at hotmail.com (Daniel Lee)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2022 12:17:09 +0000
Subject: Tkinter not working
Message-ID: <ME3P282MB3808BB461E1F57D5BBCE4F9FC09A9@ME3P282MB3808.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Hello, I my code with tkinter was working before, and now, it has many errors in it. I?m not sure what has happened. The results after running are below:

"D:\Python Projects\tes\venv\Scripts\python.exe" "D:/Python Projects/tes/main.py"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\Python Projects\tes\main.py", line 1, in <module>
    import tkinter as tk
  File "C:\Users\Daniel.LAPTOP-6U1MQ9CR\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\lib\tkinter\__init__.py", line 3, in <module>
    import tkinter.messagebox
  File "C:\Users\Daniel.LAPTOP-6U1MQ9CR\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\lib\tkinter\messagebox.py", line 25, in <module>
    from tkinter.commondialog import Dialog
  File "C:\Users\Daniel.LAPTOP-6U1MQ9CR\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\lib\tkinter\commondialog.py", line 13, in <module>
    from tkinter import Frame, _get_temp_root, _destroy_temp_root
ImportError: cannot import name 'Frame' from partially initialized module 'tkinter' (most likely due to a circular import) (C:\Users\Daniel.LAPTOP-6U1MQ9CR\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\lib\tkinter\__init__.py)

Process finished with exit code 1

From dieter at handshake.de  Mon Aug  1 13:34:49 2022
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2022 19:34:49 +0200
Subject: Register multiple excepthooks?
In-Reply-To: <DB6PR01MB38956777560DFACF22764A7C839B9@DB6PR01MB3895.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <DB6PR01MB38956777560DFACF22764A7C839B9@DB6PR01MB3895.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <25320.3769.224412.136125@ixdm.fritz.box>

Albert-Jan Roskam wrote at 2022-7-31 11:39 +0200:
>   I have a function init_logging.log_uncaught_errors() that I use for
>   sys.excepthook. Now I also want to call another function (ffi.dlclose())
>   upon abnormal termination. Is it possible to register multiple
>   excepthooks, like with atexit.register? Or should I rename/redefine
>   log_uncaught_errors() so it does both things?

`sys.excepthook` is a single function (not a list of them).
This means: at any moment a single `excepthook` is effective.

If you need a modular design, use a dispatcher function
as your `excepthook` associated with a registry (e.g. a `list`).
The dispatcher can then call all registered function.

From mrabarnett at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Aug  1 13:53:47 2022
From: mrabarnett at mrabarnett.plus.com (Matthew Barnett)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2022 18:53:47 +0100
Subject: Tkinter not working
In-Reply-To: <ME3P282MB3808BB461E1F57D5BBCE4F9FC09A9@ME3P282MB3808.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <ME3P282MB3808BB461E1F57D5BBCE4F9FC09A9@ME3P282MB3808.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <c4f18e80-5750-4fcf-c4cf-7690c3530341@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 01/08/2022 13:17, Daniel Lee wrote:
> Hello, I my code with tkinter was working before, and now, it has many errors in it. I?m not sure what has happened. The results after running are below:
> 
> "D:\Python Projects\tes\venv\Scripts\python.exe" "D:/Python Projects/tes/main.py"
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "D:\Python Projects\tes\main.py", line 1, in <module>
>      import tkinter as tk
>    File "C:\Users\Daniel.LAPTOP-6U1MQ9CR\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\lib\tkinter\__init__.py", line 3, in <module>
>      import tkinter.messagebox
>    File "C:\Users\Daniel.LAPTOP-6U1MQ9CR\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\lib\tkinter\messagebox.py", line 25, in <module>
>      from tkinter.commondialog import Dialog
>    File "C:\Users\Daniel.LAPTOP-6U1MQ9CR\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\lib\tkinter\commondialog.py", line 13, in <module>
>      from tkinter import Frame, _get_temp_root, _destroy_temp_root
> ImportError: cannot import name 'Frame' from partially initialized module 'tkinter' (most likely due to a circular import) (C:\Users\Daniel.LAPTOP-6U1MQ9CR\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\lib\tkinter\__init__.py)
> 
> Process finished with exit code 1

The entry:

   File 
"C:\Users\Daniel.LAPTOP-6U1MQ9CR\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\lib\tkinter\__init__.py", 
line 3, in <module>
     import tkinter.messagebox

in the traceback does not look right to me. On my PC that file starts 
with a long docstring.

From 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com  Mon Aug  1 14:27:55 2022
From: 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com (2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2022 13:27:55 -0500
Subject: Tkinter not working
In-Reply-To: <c4f18e80-5750-4fcf-c4cf-7690c3530341@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <ME3P282MB3808BB461E1F57D5BBCE4F9FC09A9@ME3P282MB3808.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <c4f18e80-5750-4fcf-c4cf-7690c3530341@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <YugbK41MYWqzgsWS@anomaly>

On 2022-08-01 at 18:53:47 +0100,
Matthew Barnett <mrabarnett at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:

> On 01/08/2022 13:17, Daniel Lee wrote:
> > Hello, I my code with tkinter was working before, and now, it has many errors in it. I?m not sure what has happened. The results after running are below:
> > 
> > "D:\Python Projects\tes\venv\Scripts\python.exe" "D:/Python Projects/tes/main.py"
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >    File "D:\Python Projects\tes\main.py", line 1, in <module>
> >      import tkinter as tk
> >    File "C:\Users\Daniel.LAPTOP-6U1MQ9CR\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\lib\tkinter\__init__.py", line 3, in <module>
> >      import tkinter.messagebox
> >    File "C:\Users\Daniel.LAPTOP-6U1MQ9CR\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\lib\tkinter\messagebox.py", line 25, in <module>
> >      from tkinter.commondialog import Dialog
> >    File "C:\Users\Daniel.LAPTOP-6U1MQ9CR\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\lib\tkinter\commondialog.py", line 13, in <module>
> >      from tkinter import Frame, _get_temp_root, _destroy_temp_root
> > ImportError: cannot import name 'Frame' from partially initialized module 'tkinter' (most likely due to a circular import) (C:\Users\Daniel.LAPTOP-6U1MQ9CR\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\lib\tkinter\__init__.py)
> > 
> > Process finished with exit code 1
> 
> The entry:
> 
>   File "C:\Users\Daniel.LAPTOP-6U1MQ9CR\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\lib\tkinter\__init__.py",
> line 3, in <module>
>     import tkinter.messagebox
> 
> in the traceback does not look right to me. On my PC that file starts with a
> long docstring.

My tkinter/__init__.py, too.

Do you have (and did you create since the last time your code worked)
your own module called tkinter?  Is line 3 "import tkinter.messagebox"?

From drsalists at gmail.com  Mon Aug  1 16:41:11 2022
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2022 13:41:11 -0700
Subject: Dictionary order?
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_r1Rz1rnT6pBpZ5Db_Rvv5HF6q1GTX+JAyK3Xt5=A=ANA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks.

I'm still porting some code from Python 2.7 to 3.10.

As part of that, I saw a list being extended with a dict.values(), and
thought perhaps it wasn't ordered as intended on Python 2.7, even though
the problem would conceivably just disappear on 3.10.

So I decided to write a little test program to run on a variety of
CPythons, to confirm what I was thinking.

And instead I got a surprise.

On 1.4 through 2.1 I got descending key order.  I expected the keys to be
scattered, but they weren't.

On 2.2 through 3.5 I got ascending key order.  I expected the keys to be
scattered, but they weren't.

On 3.6 through 3.10 I got insertion order, as expected.

But why are 1.4 through 3.5 ordering so much?  It's like they're a treap or
red-black tree or something.  I'm pretty sure dict's used to be ordered in
a mostly-arbitrary way.

What am I missing?

Here's the little test program:

#!/usr/local/cpython-2.7/bin/python2

import sys

keys = [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7, 12, 11]

dict_ = {}
for key in keys:
    dict_[key] = 1

if list(dict_.keys()) == keys:
    # The order matches
    print('compact')
    sys.exit(0)
else:
    # The order does not match
    print('list(dict_): %s, keys: %s' % (list(dict_.keys()), keys))
    sys.exit(1)

Here's some output (irrelevant python's deleted) when run under
https://stromberg.dnsalias.org/~strombrg/pythons/

/usr/local/cpython-1.4/bin/python (1.4) bad  list(dict_): [1, 2, 4, 5, 6,
7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15], keys: [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7,
12, 11]
/usr/local/cpython-1.5/bin/python (1.5.2) bad  list(dict_): [15, 14, 12,
11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 2, 1], keys: [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7,
12, 11]
/usr/local/cpython-1.6/bin/python (1.6.1) bad  list(dict_): [15, 14, 12,
11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 2, 1], keys: [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7,
12, 11]
/usr/local/cpython-2.0/bin/python (2.0.1) bad  list(dict_): [15, 14, 12,
11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 2, 1], keys: [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7,
12, 11]
/usr/local/cpython-2.1/bin/python (2.1.0) bad  list(dict_): [15, 14, 12,
11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 2, 1], keys: [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7,
12, 11]
/usr/local/cpython-2.2/bin/python (2.2.0) bad  list(dict_): [1, 2, 4, 5, 6,
7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15], keys: [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7,
12, 11]
/usr/local/cpython-2.3/bin/python (2.3.0) bad  list(dict_): [1, 2, 4, 5, 6,
7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15], keys: [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7,
12, 11]
/usr/local/cpython-2.4/bin/python (2.4.0) bad  list(dict_): [1, 2, 4, 5, 6,
7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15], keys: [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7,
12, 11]
/usr/local/cpython-2.5/bin/python (2.5.6) bad  list(dict_): [1, 2, 4, 5, 6,
7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15], keys: [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7,
12, 11]
/usr/local/cpython-2.6/bin/python (2.6.9) bad  list(dict_): [1, 2, 4, 5, 6,
7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15], keys: [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7,
12, 11]
/usr/local/cpython-2.7/bin/python (2.7.16) bad  list(dict_): [1, 2, 4, 5,
6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15], keys: [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7,
12, 11]
/usr/local/cpython-3.0/bin/python (3.0.1) bad  list(dict_): [1, 2, 4, 5, 6,
7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15], keys: [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7,
12, 11]
/usr/local/cpython-3.1/bin/python (3.1.5) bad  list(dict_): [1, 2, 4, 5, 6,
7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15], keys: [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7,
12, 11]
/usr/local/cpython-3.2/bin/python (3.2.5) bad  list(dict_): [1, 2, 4, 5, 6,
7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15], keys: [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7,
12, 11]
/usr/local/cpython-3.3/bin/python (3.3.7) bad  list(dict_): [1, 2, 4, 5, 6,
7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15], keys: [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7,
12, 11]
/usr/local/cpython-3.4/bin/python (3.4.8) bad  list(dict_): [1, 2, 4, 5, 6,
7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15], keys: [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7,
12, 11]
/usr/local/cpython-3.5/bin/python (3.5.5) bad  list(dict_): [1, 2, 4, 5, 6,
7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15], keys: [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7,
12, 11]
/usr/local/cpython-3.6/bin/python (3.6.13) good compact
/usr/local/cpython-3.7/bin/python (3.7.0) good compact
/usr/local/cpython-3.8/bin/python (3.8.0) good compact
/usr/local/cpython-3.9/bin/python (3.9.0) good compact
/usr/local/cpython-3.10/bin/python (3.10.0) good compact

BTW, usually with pythons (the script which can be found at the URL above),
a little test program will be written to exit shell-true for success or
shell-false for failure.  But in this case I'm using the exit code not as
success+failure but as compact+notcompact.

Why are those keys so ordered?

Also, I realize that the keys could come up ordered somehow by accident,
but I tried with 30 values (not just 12), and still got the same
weirdness.  Naturally, as the number of key-value pairs goes up, the chance
of accidental ordering goes way down.

Thanks for reading!

From skip.montanaro at gmail.com  Mon Aug  1 16:48:45 2022
From: skip.montanaro at gmail.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2022 15:48:45 -0500
Subject: Dictionary order?
In-Reply-To: <CAGGBd_r1Rz1rnT6pBpZ5Db_Rvv5HF6q1GTX+JAyK3Xt5=A=ANA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGGBd_r1Rz1rnT6pBpZ5Db_Rvv5HF6q1GTX+JAyK3Xt5=A=ANA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANc-5Uwn6fT8_iVQGXoj5eWwy=NXzAHUbG0DyGe6=tvx4oZ92Q@mail.gmail.com>

>
> So I decided to write a little test program to run on a variety of
> CPythons, to confirm what I was thinking.
>
> And instead I got a surprise.
>
> On 1.4 through 2.1 I got descending key order.  I expected the keys to be
> scattered, but they weren't.
>
> On 2.2 through 3.5 I got ascending key order.  I expected the keys to be
> scattered, but they weren't.
>
> On 3.6 through 3.10 I got insertion order, as expected.
>
> But why are 1.4 through 3.5 ordering so much?
>

That's long in the past, but I seem to recall that key order was
unspecified. That would give the implementer (likely Tim Peters much of the
time) the freedom to do whatever worked best for performance or simplicity
of implementation.

Skip

>

From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Aug  1 17:09:03 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2022 07:09:03 +1000
Subject: Dictionary order?
In-Reply-To: <CANc-5Uwn6fT8_iVQGXoj5eWwy=NXzAHUbG0DyGe6=tvx4oZ92Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGGBd_r1Rz1rnT6pBpZ5Db_Rvv5HF6q1GTX+JAyK3Xt5=A=ANA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANc-5Uwn6fT8_iVQGXoj5eWwy=NXzAHUbG0DyGe6=tvx4oZ92Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqZ8J63nTCy1X55_GKHxgmxDfEkfsjdAezNc1VhzP=FEg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 2 Aug 2022 at 06:50, Skip Montanaro <skip.montanaro at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > So I decided to write a little test program to run on a variety of
> > CPythons, to confirm what I was thinking.
> >
> > And instead I got a surprise.
> >
> > On 1.4 through 2.1 I got descending key order.  I expected the keys to be
> > scattered, but they weren't.
> >
> > On 2.2 through 3.5 I got ascending key order.  I expected the keys to be
> > scattered, but they weren't.
> >
> > On 3.6 through 3.10 I got insertion order, as expected.
> >
> > But why are 1.4 through 3.5 ordering so much?
> >
>
> That's long in the past, but I seem to recall that key order was
> unspecified. That would give the implementer (likely Tim Peters much of the
> time) the freedom to do whatever worked best for performance or simplicity
> of implementation.
>

One thing that you might notice also is that using strings as keys
will begin randomizing them with Python 3.3. But other than strings,
it's always been "arbitrary" rather than "random".

ChrisA

From drsalists at gmail.com  Mon Aug  1 17:24:09 2022
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2022 14:24:09 -0700
Subject: Dictionary order?
In-Reply-To: <CAGGBd_r1Rz1rnT6pBpZ5Db_Rvv5HF6q1GTX+JAyK3Xt5=A=ANA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGGBd_r1Rz1rnT6pBpZ5Db_Rvv5HF6q1GTX+JAyK3Xt5=A=ANA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_qA_o_eYbhO-VHZZLTnTpq-bMWAGHB+7x=eOCuJ=vcHzg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 1:41 PM Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 1.4 through 2.1 I got descending key order.  I expected the keys to be
> scattered, but they weren't.
>
I just noticed that 1.4 was ascending order too - so it was closer to 2.2
than 1.5.

I guess that's kind of beside the point though - it's still more ordered
than I'd've expected.

From 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com  Mon Aug  1 17:46:54 2022
From: 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com (2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2022 16:46:54 -0500
Subject: Dictionary order?
In-Reply-To: <CAGGBd_r1Rz1rnT6pBpZ5Db_Rvv5HF6q1GTX+JAyK3Xt5=A=ANA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGGBd_r1Rz1rnT6pBpZ5Db_Rvv5HF6q1GTX+JAyK3Xt5=A=ANA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <YuhJzvt+iqHXzUwt@anomaly>

On 2022-08-01 at 13:41:11 -0700,
Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:

> keys = [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7, 12, 11]
> 
> dict_ = {}
> for key in keys:
>     dict_[key] = 1

$ python
Python 3.10.5 (main, Jun  6 2022, 18:49:26) [GCC 12.1.0] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> [hash(x) for x in range(20)]
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19]

Just sayin'.  :-)

From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Aug  1 17:50:52 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2022 07:50:52 +1000
Subject: Dictionary order?
In-Reply-To: <YuhJzvt+iqHXzUwt@anomaly>
References: <CAGGBd_r1Rz1rnT6pBpZ5Db_Rvv5HF6q1GTX+JAyK3Xt5=A=ANA@mail.gmail.com>
 <YuhJzvt+iqHXzUwt@anomaly>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq4ixQBu0wfvsWQcCShHAET24GTMbaYXCFpkz=pecPpnQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 2 Aug 2022 at 07:48, <2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com> wrote:
>
> On 2022-08-01 at 13:41:11 -0700,
> Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > keys = [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7, 12, 11]
> >
> > dict_ = {}
> > for key in keys:
> >     dict_[key] = 1
>
> $ python
> Python 3.10.5 (main, Jun  6 2022, 18:49:26) [GCC 12.1.0] on linux
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> [hash(x) for x in range(20)]
> [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19]
>
> Just sayin'.  :-)

Yes, but I'm pretty sure that's been true for a LONG time. The hashes
for small integers have been themselves for as long as I can remember.
But the behaviour of the dictionary, when fed such keys, is what's
changed.

ChrisA

From 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com  Mon Aug  1 18:24:17 2022
From: 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com (2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2022 17:24:17 -0500
Subject: Dictionary order?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmq4ixQBu0wfvsWQcCShHAET24GTMbaYXCFpkz=pecPpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGGBd_r1Rz1rnT6pBpZ5Db_Rvv5HF6q1GTX+JAyK3Xt5=A=ANA@mail.gmail.com>
 <YuhJzvt+iqHXzUwt@anomaly>
 <CAPTjJmq4ixQBu0wfvsWQcCShHAET24GTMbaYXCFpkz=pecPpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <YuhSkfhVFd3T+I8k@anomaly>

On 2022-08-02 at 07:50:52 +1000,
Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 2 Aug 2022 at 07:48, <2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 2022-08-01 at 13:41:11 -0700,
> > Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > keys = [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7, 12, 11]
> > >
> > > dict_ = {}
> > > for key in keys:
> > >     dict_[key] = 1
> >
> > $ python
> > Python 3.10.5 (main, Jun  6 2022, 18:49:26) [GCC 12.1.0] on linux
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> > >>> [hash(x) for x in range(20)]
> > [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19]
> >
> > Just sayin'.  :-)
> 
> Yes, but I'm pretty sure that's been true for a LONG time. The hashes
> for small integers have been themselves for as long as I can remember.
> But the behaviour of the dictionary, when fed such keys, is what's
> changed.

I'm not disputing either of those facts.  I'm pointing out that the
apparently arbitrary order of a mapping's keys becomes obvious when you
look at the hashes of those keys.

From drsalists at gmail.com  Mon Aug  1 19:42:58 2022
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2022 16:42:58 -0700
Subject: Dictionary order?
In-Reply-To: <YuhSkfhVFd3T+I8k@anomaly>
References: <CAGGBd_r1Rz1rnT6pBpZ5Db_Rvv5HF6q1GTX+JAyK3Xt5=A=ANA@mail.gmail.com>
 <YuhJzvt+iqHXzUwt@anomaly>
 <CAPTjJmq4ixQBu0wfvsWQcCShHAET24GTMbaYXCFpkz=pecPpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <YuhSkfhVFd3T+I8k@anomaly>
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_qK4QMWnoNe5Ttaph_99SmNuzU0JgCc0VUNf8fkn9WYLw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 3:25 PM <2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com> wrote:

> On 2022-08-02 at 07:50:52 +1000,
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 2 Aug 2022 at 07:48, <2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 2022-08-01 at 13:41:11 -0700,
> > > Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > keys = [5, 10, 15, 14, 9, 4, 1, 2, 8, 6, 7, 12, 11]
> > > >
> > > > dict_ = {}
> > > > for key in keys:
> > > >     dict_[key] = 1
> > >
> > > $ python
> > > Python 3.10.5 (main, Jun  6 2022, 18:49:26) [GCC 12.1.0] on linux
> > > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> > > >>> [hash(x) for x in range(20)]
> > > [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19]
> > >
> > > Just sayin'.  :-)
> >
> > Yes, but I'm pretty sure that's been true for a LONG time. The hashes
> > for small integers have been themselves for as long as I can remember.
> > But the behaviour of the dictionary, when fed such keys, is what's
> > changed.
>
> I'm not disputing either of those facts.  I'm pointing out that the
> apparently arbitrary order of a mapping's keys becomes obvious when you
> look at the hashes of those keys.
>

It looks like the relationship no longer holds at around keys =
list(range(250, 260))

But i == hash(i) holds for the first million values at least.

From drsalists at gmail.com  Mon Aug  1 19:46:51 2022
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2022 16:46:51 -0700
Subject: Dictionary order?
In-Reply-To: <CAGGBd_qK4QMWnoNe5Ttaph_99SmNuzU0JgCc0VUNf8fkn9WYLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGGBd_r1Rz1rnT6pBpZ5Db_Rvv5HF6q1GTX+JAyK3Xt5=A=ANA@mail.gmail.com>
 <YuhJzvt+iqHXzUwt@anomaly>
 <CAPTjJmq4ixQBu0wfvsWQcCShHAET24GTMbaYXCFpkz=pecPpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <YuhSkfhVFd3T+I8k@anomaly>
 <CAGGBd_qK4QMWnoNe5Ttaph_99SmNuzU0JgCc0VUNf8fkn9WYLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_p04g=ypqwJFR5brqBDn33iO+Tfdc7888uM1UbTo+Fd_Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 4:42 PM Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> > Yes, but I'm pretty sure that's been true for a LONG time. The hashes
>> > for small integers have been themselves for as long as I can remember.
>> > But the behaviour of the dictionary, when fed such keys, is what's
>> > changed.
>>
>> I'm not disputing either of those facts.  I'm pointing out that the
>> apparently arbitrary order of a mapping's keys becomes obvious when you
>> look at the hashes of those keys.
>>
>
> It looks like the relationship no longer holds at around keys =
> list(range(250, 260))
>
> But i == hash(i) holds for the first million values at least.
>

I could've been more clear.  int dict keys stop being stored-in-order at
near 256.

But i == hash(i) holds for the first million values, and probably more.

This suggests to me that there's something more than i == hash(i) going on
inside dict's - but it doesn't much matter what it is for my purposes.

From gweatherby at uchc.edu  Mon Aug  1 21:14:43 2022
From: gweatherby at uchc.edu (Weatherby,Gerard)
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2022 01:14:43 +0000
Subject: Dictionary order?
In-Reply-To: <CAGGBd_p04g=ypqwJFR5brqBDn33iO+Tfdc7888uM1UbTo+Fd_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGGBd_r1Rz1rnT6pBpZ5Db_Rvv5HF6q1GTX+JAyK3Xt5=A=ANA@mail.gmail.com>
 <YuhJzvt+iqHXzUwt@anomaly>
 <CAPTjJmq4ixQBu0wfvsWQcCShHAET24GTMbaYXCFpkz=pecPpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <YuhSkfhVFd3T+I8k@anomaly>
 <CAGGBd_qK4QMWnoNe5Ttaph_99SmNuzU0JgCc0VUNf8fkn9WYLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGGBd_p04g=ypqwJFR5brqBDn33iO+Tfdc7888uM1UbTo+Fd_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87d652dc-0bce-499c-92e9-a879d38236ba@Spark>

I don?t see what is surprising. The interface for a dictionary never specified the ordering of the keys, so I would not be surprised to see it vary based on release, platform, values of keys inserted, number of items in the dictionary, etc.





?
Gerard Weatherby | Application Architect NMRbox | NAN | Department of Molecular Biology and Biophysics
 UConn Health 263 Farmington Avenue, Farmington, CT 06030-6406 uchc.edu
On Aug 1, 2022, 7:48 PM -0400, Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com>, wrote:
*** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution responding, opening attachments or clicking on links. ***

On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 4:42 PM Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:


Yes, but I'm pretty sure that's been true for a LONG time. The hashes
for small integers have been themselves for as long as I can remember.
But the behaviour of the dictionary, when fed such keys, is what's
changed.

I'm not disputing either of those facts. I'm pointing out that the
apparently arbitrary order of a mapping's keys becomes obvious when you
look at the hashes of those keys.


It looks like the relationship no longer holds at around keys =
list(range(250, 260))

But i == hash(i) holds for the first million values at least.


I could've been more clear. int dict keys stop being stored-in-order at
near 256.

But i == hash(i) holds for the first million values, and probably more.

This suggests to me that there's something more than i == hash(i) going on
inside dict's - but it doesn't much matter what it is for my purposes.
--
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list__;!!Cn_UX_p3!j3p_Aq5MoGqDk5XMsKb4SKs3U1nfuMOx0wVkSa_hbURJ22w6lP8NrCOc_PYAfELYOdVlC9x6JzLfIMIw5sLe$

From pablogsal at gmail.com  Tue Aug  2 06:12:38 2022
From: pablogsal at gmail.com (Pablo Galindo Salgado)
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2022 11:12:38 +0100
Subject: [RELEASE] Python 3.10.6 is available
Message-ID: <CAFjbc8EOuzvApKwxQ-MJGMwhDsM5Guti=UPWgXpgxDX2F6W-0w@mail.gmail.com>

Here you have a nice package of 200 commits of bugfixes and documentation
improvements freshly made for Python 3.10. Go and download it when is still
hot:

https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-3106/

## This is the sixth maintenance release of Python 3.10

Python 3.10.6 is the newest major release of the Python programming
language, and it contains many new features and optimizations.

# Major new features of the 3.10 series, compared to 3.9

Among the new major new features and changes so far:

* [PEP 623](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0623/) -- Deprecate and
prepare for the removal of the wstr member in PyUnicodeObject.
* [PEP 604](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0604/) -- Allow writing
union types as X | Y
* [PEP 612](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0612/) -- Parameter
Specification Variables
* [PEP 626](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0626/) -- Precise line
numbers for debugging and other tools.
* [PEP 618 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0618/) -- Add Optional
Length-Checking To zip.
* [bpo-12782](https://bugs.python.org/issue12782): Parenthesized context
managers are now officially allowed.
* [PEP 632 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0632/) -- Deprecate
distutils module.
* [PEP 613 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0613/) -- Explicit Type
Aliases
* [PEP 634 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0634/) -- Structural
Pattern Matching: Specification
* [PEP 635 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0635/) -- Structural
Pattern Matching: Motivation and Rationale
* [PEP 636 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0636/) -- Structural
Pattern Matching: Tutorial
* [PEP 644 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0644/) -- Require OpenSSL
1.1.1 or newer
* [PEP 624 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0624/) -- Remove
Py_UNICODE encoder APIs
* [PEP 597 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0597/) -- Add optional
EncodingWarning

[bpo-38605](https://bugs.python.org/issue38605): `from __future__ import
annotations` ([PEP 563](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0563/)) used to
be on this list
in previous pre-releases but it has been postponed to Python 3.11 due to
some compatibility concerns. You can read the Steering Council
communication about it [here](
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev at python.org/thread/CLVXXPQ2T2LQ5MP2Y53VVQFCXYWQJHKZ/)
to learn more.

# More resources

* [Changelog](https://docs.python.org/3.10/whatsnew/changelog.html#changelog
)
* [Online Documentation](https://docs.python.org/3.10/)
* [PEP 619](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0619/), 3.10 Release
Schedule
* Report bugs at [https://bugs.python.org](https://bugs.python.org).
* [Help fund Python and its community](/psf/donations/).

# And now for something completely different
A pentaquark is a human-made subatomic particle, consisting of four quarks
and one antiquark bound together; they are not known to occur naturally or
exist outside of experiments to create them. As quarks have a baryon number
of (+1/3), and antiquarks of (?1/3), the pentaquark would have a total
baryon number of 1 and thus would be a baryon. Further, because it has five
quarks instead of the usual three found in regular baryons (a.k.a.
'triquarks'), it is classified as an exotic baryon. The name pentaquark was
coined by Claude Gignoux et al. (1987) and Harry J. Lipkin in 1987;
however, the possibility of five-quark particles was identified as early as
1964 when Murray Gell-Mann first postulated the existence of quarks.
Although predicted for decades, pentaquarks proved surprisingly tricky to
discover and some physicists were beginning to suspect that an unknown law
of nature prevented their production.


# We hope you enjoy the new releases!

Thanks to all of the many volunteers who help make Python Development and
these releases possible! Please consider supporting our efforts by
volunteering yourself or through organization contributions to the Python
Software Foundation.

https://www.python.org/psf/

Your friendly release team,

Ned Deily @nad https://discuss.python.org/u/nad
Steve Dower @steve.dower https://discuss.python.org/u/steve.dower
Pablo Galindo Salgado @pablogsal https://discuss.python.org/u/pablogsal

From jschwar at sbcglobal.net  Tue Aug  2 13:13:16 2022
From: jschwar at sbcglobal.net (jschwar at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2022 12:13:16 -0500
Subject: [RELEASE] Python 3.10.6 is available
In-Reply-To: <CAFjbc8EOuzvApKwxQ-MJGMwhDsM5Guti=UPWgXpgxDX2F6W-0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFjbc8EOuzvApKwxQ-MJGMwhDsM5Guti=UPWgXpgxDX2F6W-0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004b01d8a693$28929cd0$79b7d670$@sbcglobal.net>

Does anyone know if this is being worked on?  https://github.com/python/cpython/issues/90242

It was originally reported here:  https://bugs.python.org/issue46084


-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list <python-list-bounces+jschwar=sbcglobal.net at python.org> On Behalf Of Pablo Galindo Salgado
Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2022 5:13 AM
To: Python Dev <python-dev at python.org>; python-list at python.org; python-committers <python-committers at python.org>; python-announce at python.org
Subject: [RELEASE] Python 3.10.6 is available

Here you have a nice package of 200 commits of bugfixes and documentation improvements freshly made for Python 3.10. Go and download it when is still
hot:

https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-3106/

## This is the sixth maintenance release of Python 3.10

Python 3.10.6 is the newest major release of the Python programming language, and it contains many new features and optimizations.

# Major new features of the 3.10 series, compared to 3.9

Among the new major new features and changes so far:

* [PEP 623](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0623/) -- Deprecate and prepare for the removal of the wstr member in PyUnicodeObject.
* [PEP 604](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0604/) -- Allow writing union types as X | Y
* [PEP 612](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0612/) -- Parameter Specification Variables
* [PEP 626](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0626/) -- Precise line numbers for debugging and other tools.
* [PEP 618 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0618/) -- Add Optional Length-Checking To zip.
* [bpo-12782](https://bugs.python.org/issue12782): Parenthesized context managers are now officially allowed.
* [PEP 632 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0632/) -- Deprecate distutils module.
* [PEP 613 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0613/) -- Explicit Type Aliases
* [PEP 634 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0634/) -- Structural Pattern Matching: Specification
* [PEP 635 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0635/) -- Structural Pattern Matching: Motivation and Rationale
* [PEP 636 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0636/) -- Structural Pattern Matching: Tutorial
* [PEP 644 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0644/) -- Require OpenSSL
1.1.1 or newer
* [PEP 624 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0624/) -- Remove Py_UNICODE encoder APIs
* [PEP 597 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0597/) -- Add optional EncodingWarning

[bpo-38605](https://bugs.python.org/issue38605): `from __future__ import annotations` ([PEP 563](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0563/)) used to be on this list in previous pre-releases but it has been postponed to Python 3.11 due to some compatibility concerns. You can read the Steering Council communication about it [here](
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev at python.org/thread/CLVXXPQ2T2LQ5MP2Y53VVQFCXYWQJHKZ/)
to learn more.

# More resources

* [Changelog](https://docs.python.org/3.10/whatsnew/changelog.html#changelog
)
* [Online Documentation](https://docs.python.org/3.10/)
* [PEP 619](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0619/), 3.10 Release Schedule
* Report bugs at [https://bugs.python.org](https://bugs.python.org).
* [Help fund Python and its community](/psf/donations/).

# And now for something completely different A pentaquark is a human-made subatomic particle, consisting of four quarks and one antiquark bound together; they are not known to occur naturally or exist outside of experiments to create them. As quarks have a baryon number of (+1/3), and antiquarks of (?1/3), the pentaquark would have a total baryon number of 1 and thus would be a baryon. Further, because it has five quarks instead of the usual three found in regular baryons (a.k.a.
'triquarks'), it is classified as an exotic baryon. The name pentaquark was coined by Claude Gignoux et al. (1987) and Harry J. Lipkin in 1987; however, the possibility of five-quark particles was identified as early as
1964 when Murray Gell-Mann first postulated the existence of quarks.
Although predicted for decades, pentaquarks proved surprisingly tricky to discover and some physicists were beginning to suspect that an unknown law of nature prevented their production.


# We hope you enjoy the new releases!

Thanks to all of the many volunteers who help make Python Development and these releases possible! Please consider supporting our efforts by volunteering yourself or through organization contributions to the Python Software Foundation.

https://www.python.org/psf/

Your friendly release team,

Ned Deily @nad https://discuss.python.org/u/nad Steve Dower @steve.dower https://discuss.python.org/u/steve.dower
Pablo Galindo Salgado @pablogsal https://discuss.python.org/u/pablogsal
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From axy at declassed.art  Tue Aug  2 01:44:53 2022
From: axy at declassed.art (Axy)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2022 22:44:53 -0700
Subject: Clabate: minimalistic class-based templates for Python
Message-ID: <276b9df7-64e5-2d3e-7af7-1751d52ef2e6@declassed.art>

Hi all,

this is a test message after tweaking my self-hosted mail server and the 
subject is just in case if you receive it

https://declassed.art/en/blog/2022/06/29/clabate-class-based-templates

Previously I tried to reply to someone here but the message was 
rejected. Did not post to mail lists from my own mail server before, and 
this is the only problem left to dig in.

Sorry for bothering.

Axy

From loris.bennett at fu-berlin.de  Wed Aug  3 09:18:21 2022
From: loris.bennett at fu-berlin.de (Loris Bennett)
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2022 15:18:21 +0200
Subject: 2 options both mutually exclusive with respect to 3rd option
Message-ID: <87bkt1xy76.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>

Hi,

I want to plot some data which are collected over time.  I either want
to specify start and/or end times for the plot, or specify last week, month
or year.  So the usage would look like:

  plot_data [[--start START --end END] | --last LAST ]

I know about argsparse's mutually exclusive group, but this creates a
group of option with are all mutually exclusive amoungst each other.  I
want both --start and --end to be mutually exclusive with respect to
--last.

Can I achieve this directly with argsparse, or do I just have to check
the options by hand?

Cheers,

Loris

-- 
This signature is currently under construction.

From lsvalgaard at gmail.com  Wed Aug  3 12:31:01 2022
From: lsvalgaard at gmail.com (Leif Svalgaard)
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2022 09:31:01 -0700
Subject: Python-list Digest, Vol 227, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9.1659542402.12724.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.9.1659542402.12724.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAHOxnxbHtp-ERbf_UckaqZ-vvavOXL-_12L6PjEpjwZRUhigVw@mail.gmail.com>

I also get 'file not found' when trying to let Spyder [v5.2] select the
newly installed 3.10.6, and the path length is a lot less than 256.


On Wed, Aug 3, 2022 at 9:03 AM <python-list-request at python.org> wrote:

> Send Python-list mailing list submissions to
>         python-list at python.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Python-list digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. RE: [RELEASE] Python 3.10.6 is available (jschwar at sbcglobal.net)
>    2. Clabate: minimalistic class-based templates for Python (Axy)
>    3. Re: Dictionary order? (Stefan Ram)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: <jschwar at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'Pablo Galindo Salgado'" <pablogsal at gmail.com>, "'Python Dev'" <
> python-dev at python.org>, <python-list at python.org>, "'python-committers'" <
> python-committers at python.org>, <python-announce at python.org>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2022 12:13:16 -0500
> Subject: RE: [RELEASE] Python 3.10.6 is available
> Does anyone know if this is being worked on?
> https://github.com/python/cpython/issues/90242
>
> It was originally reported here:  https://bugs.python.org/issue46084
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Python-list <python-list-bounces+jschwar=sbcglobal.net at python.org>
> On Behalf Of Pablo Galindo Salgado
> Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2022 5:13 AM
> To: Python Dev <python-dev at python.org>; python-list at python.org;
> python-committers <python-committers at python.org>;
> python-announce at python.org
> Subject: [RELEASE] Python 3.10.6 is available
>
> Here you have a nice package of 200 commits of bugfixes and documentation
> improvements freshly made for Python 3.10. Go and download it when is still
> hot:
>
> https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-3106/
>
> ## This is the sixth maintenance release of Python 3.10
>
> Python 3.10.6 is the newest major release of the Python programming
> language, and it contains many new features and optimizations.
>
> # Major new features of the 3.10 series, compared to 3.9
>
> Among the new major new features and changes so far:
>
> * [PEP 623](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0623/) -- Deprecate and
> prepare for the removal of the wstr member in PyUnicodeObject.
> * [PEP 604](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0604/) -- Allow writing
> union types as X | Y
> * [PEP 612](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0612/) -- Parameter
> Specification Variables
> * [PEP 626](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0626/) -- Precise line
> numbers for debugging and other tools.
> * [PEP 618 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0618/) -- Add Optional
> Length-Checking To zip.
> * [bpo-12782](https://bugs.python.org/issue12782): Parenthesized context
> managers are now officially allowed.
> * [PEP 632 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0632/) -- Deprecate
> distutils module.
> * [PEP 613 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0613/) -- Explicit Type
> Aliases
> * [PEP 634 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0634/) -- Structural
> Pattern Matching: Specification
> * [PEP 635 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0635/) -- Structural
> Pattern Matching: Motivation and Rationale
> * [PEP 636 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0636/) -- Structural
> Pattern Matching: Tutorial
> * [PEP 644 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0644/) -- Require OpenSSL
> 1.1.1 or newer
> * [PEP 624 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0624/) -- Remove
> Py_UNICODE encoder APIs
> * [PEP 597 ](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0597/) -- Add optional
> EncodingWarning
>
> [bpo-38605](https://bugs.python.org/issue38605): `from __future__ import
> annotations` ([PEP 563](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0563/)) used
> to be on this list in previous pre-releases but it has been postponed to
> Python 3.11 due to some compatibility concerns. You can read the Steering
> Council communication about it [here](
>
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev at python.org/thread/CLVXXPQ2T2LQ5MP2Y53VVQFCXYWQJHKZ/
> )
> to learn more.
>
> # More resources
>
> * [Changelog](
> https://docs.python.org/3.10/whatsnew/changelog.html#changelog
> )
> * [Online Documentation](https://docs.python.org/3.10/)
> * [PEP 619](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0619/), 3.10 Release
> Schedule
> * Report bugs at [https://bugs.python.org](https://bugs.python.org).
> * [Help fund Python and its community](/psf/donations/).
>
> # And now for something completely different A pentaquark is a human-made
> subatomic particle, consisting of four quarks and one antiquark bound
> together; they are not known to occur naturally or exist outside of
> experiments to create them. As quarks have a baryon number of (+1/3), and
> antiquarks of (?1/3), the pentaquark would have a total baryon number of 1
> and thus would be a baryon. Further, because it has five quarks instead of
> the usual three found in regular baryons (a.k.a.
> 'triquarks'), it is classified as an exotic baryon. The name pentaquark
> was coined by Claude Gignoux et al. (1987) and Harry J. Lipkin in 1987;
> however, the possibility of five-quark particles was identified as early as
> 1964 when Murray Gell-Mann first postulated the existence of quarks.
> Although predicted for decades, pentaquarks proved surprisingly tricky to
> discover and some physicists were beginning to suspect that an unknown law
> of nature prevented their production.
>
>
> # We hope you enjoy the new releases!
>
> Thanks to all of the many volunteers who help make Python Development and
> these releases possible! Please consider supporting our efforts by
> volunteering yourself or through organization contributions to the Python
> Software Foundation.
>
> https://www.python.org/psf/
>
> Your friendly release team,
>
> Ned Deily @nad https://discuss.python.org/u/nad Steve Dower @steve.dower
> https://discuss.python.org/u/steve.dower
> Pablo Galindo Salgado @pablogsal https://discuss.python.org/u/pablogsal
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Axy <axy at declassed.art>
> To: Python List <python-list at python.org>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2022 22:44:53 -0700
> Subject: Clabate: minimalistic class-based templates for Python
> Hi all,
>
> this is a test message after tweaking my self-hosted mail server and the
> subject is just in case if you receive it
>
> https://declassed.art/en/blog/2022/06/29/clabate-class-based-templates
>
> Previously I tried to reply to someone here but the message was
> rejected. Did not post to mail lists from my own mail server before, and
> this is the only problem left to dig in.
>
> Sorry for bothering.
>
> Axy
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Stefan Ram <ram at zedat.fu-berlin.de>
> To: python-list at python.org
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: 2 Aug 2022 10:16:50 GMT
> Subject: Re: Dictionary order?
> Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> writes:
> >What am I missing?
>
>   Modern Python Dictionaries A confluence of a dozen great ideas
>   - Raymond Hettinger (2017)
>
>
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


-- 
Leif
leif at leif.org

From tdtemccna at gmail.com  Wed Aug  3 22:22:41 2022
From: tdtemccna at gmail.com (Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 10:22:41 +0800
Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
 programming language?
Message-ID: <CACsrZYZ1ze8mFD+1hycgw1KgV6i-Qtfa=d1m=9vnVt3xPz5MMQ@mail.gmail.com>

Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
programming language?

Good day from Singapore,

May I know which linux distro is more conducive for learning the
Python programming language?

Since I have absolutely and totally FREE RHEL developer subscription
(I don't need to spend a single cent), can I use Red Hat Enterprise
Linux version 9.0 to learn Python?

Is it the most popular linux distro for learning Python?

I just want to know which linux distro and version is more conducive
for learning Python. Because there are thousands of linux distros out
there. And I just want to settle down on a particular linux distro and
version.

Thank you.

Regards,

Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
Targeted Individual in Singapore
4 Aug 2022 Thursday
Blogs:
https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.com
https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com

From pbryan at anode.ca  Wed Aug  3 22:31:13 2022
From: pbryan at anode.ca (Paul Bryan)
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2022 19:31:13 -0700
Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
 programming language?
In-Reply-To: <CACsrZYZ1ze8mFD+1hycgw1KgV6i-Qtfa=d1m=9vnVt3xPz5MMQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACsrZYZ1ze8mFD+1hycgw1KgV6i-Qtfa=d1m=9vnVt3xPz5MMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <af6b75ba37e69ef04bcf8100204fa6b71779691f.camel@anode.ca>

I wouldn't say any particular Linux distribution is appreciably better
for Python development than another. I would suggest using a version of
a Linux distribution that supports a recent Python release (e.g. 3.9 or
3.10).

On Thu, 2022-08-04 at 10:22 +0800, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
wrote:
> Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
> programming language?
> 
> Good day from Singapore,
> 
> May I know which linux distro is more conducive for learning the
> Python programming language?
> 
> Since I have absolutely and totally FREE RHEL developer subscription
> (I don't need to spend a single cent), can I use Red Hat Enterprise
> Linux version 9.0 to learn Python?
> 
> Is it the most popular linux distro for learning Python?
> 
> I just want to know which linux distro and version is more conducive
> for learning Python. Because there are thousands of linux distros out
> there. And I just want to settle down on a particular linux distro
> and
> version.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
> Targeted Individual in Singapore
> 4 Aug 2022 Thursday
> Blogs:
> https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.com
> https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com


From tdtemccna at gmail.com  Wed Aug  3 22:36:17 2022
From: tdtemccna at gmail.com (Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 10:36:17 +0800
Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
 programming language?
In-Reply-To: <af6b75ba37e69ef04bcf8100204fa6b71779691f.camel@anode.ca>
References: <CACsrZYZ1ze8mFD+1hycgw1KgV6i-Qtfa=d1m=9vnVt3xPz5MMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <af6b75ba37e69ef04bcf8100204fa6b71779691f.camel@anode.ca>
Message-ID: <CACsrZYY5DS3X1GkUWDOSJkkbFzHEXCQ4vZsB_CTT895AtduEhA@mail.gmail.com>

I actually did a Google search for "which linux distro is best for python".

Link: https://www.google.com/search?q=which+linux+distro+is+best+for+python&rlz=1C1GCEA_enSG1005SG1005&sxsrf=ALiCzsYaL58MJsevR2Uc0nnWtmc7kWFbIg%3A1659580387580&ei=4y_rYqWII8i7z7sPwPCtwAI&ved=0ahUKEwjlhenbkqz5AhXI3XMBHUB4CygQ4dUDCA8&uact=5&oq=which+linux+distro+is+best+for+python&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCGAzIFCAAQhgMyBQgAEIYDMgUIABCGAzoECCMQJzoECAAQQzoLCAAQgAQQsQMQgwE6CAgAEIAEELEDOggILhCABBCxAzoFCAAQkQI6BQguEIAEOgsILhCABBDHARCvAToKCAAQgAQQhwIQFDoGCAAQHhAWSgQIQRgASgQIRhgAUABYljtg0D5oAXABeACAAesBiAG3E5IBBjM3LjAuMZgBAKABAcABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz

Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
Targeted Individual in Singapore

On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 at 10:31, Paul Bryan <pbryan at anode.ca> wrote:
>
> I wouldn't say any particular Linux distribution is appreciably better for Python development than another. I would suggest using a version of a Linux distribution that supports a recent Python release (e.g. 3.9 or 3.10).
>
> On Thu, 2022-08-04 at 10:22 +0800, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:
>
> Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
> programming language?
>
> Good day from Singapore,
>
> May I know which linux distro is more conducive for learning the
> Python programming language?
>
> Since I have absolutely and totally FREE RHEL developer subscription
> (I don't need to spend a single cent), can I use Red Hat Enterprise
> Linux version 9.0 to learn Python?
>
> Is it the most popular linux distro for learning Python?
>
> I just want to know which linux distro and version is more conducive
> for learning Python. Because there are thousands of linux distros out
> there. And I just want to settle down on a particular linux distro and
> version.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
> Targeted Individual in Singapore
> 4 Aug 2022 Thursday
> Blogs:
> https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.com
> https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com
>
>

From ceo at teo-en-ming-corp.com  Wed Aug  3 22:01:24 2022
From: ceo at teo-en-ming-corp.com (Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming)
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2022 10:01:24 +0800
Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
 programming language?
Message-ID: <6925a2865417ad64c41cfb3f5a509dfb@teo-en-ming-corp.com>

Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python 
programming language?

Good day from Singapore,

May I know which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python 
programming language?

Since I have absolutely and totally FREE RHEL developer subscription (I 
don't need to spend a single cent), can I use Red Hat Enterprise Linux 
version 9.0 to learn Python?

Is it the most popular linux distro for learning Python?

I just want to know which linux distro and version is more conducive for 
learning Python. Because there are thousands of linux distros out there. 
And I just want to settle down on a particular linux distro and version.

Thank you.

Regards,

Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
Targeted Individual in Singapore
4 Aug 2022 Thursday
Blogs:
https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.com
https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com

From PythonList at DancesWithMice.info  Wed Aug  3 23:03:58 2022
From: PythonList at DancesWithMice.info (dn)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 15:03:58 +1200
Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
 programming language?
In-Reply-To: <af6b75ba37e69ef04bcf8100204fa6b71779691f.camel@anode.ca>
References: <CACsrZYZ1ze8mFD+1hycgw1KgV6i-Qtfa=d1m=9vnVt3xPz5MMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <af6b75ba37e69ef04bcf8100204fa6b71779691f.camel@anode.ca>
Message-ID: <817fc64a-15c4-c713-6451-128224da80ed@DancesWithMice.info>

On 04/08/2022 14.31, Paul Bryan wrote:
> I wouldn't say any particular Linux distribution is appreciably better
> for Python development than another. I would suggest using a version of
> a Linux distribution that supports a recent Python release (e.g. 3.9 or
> 3.10).

+1

As a Python-learner (there's no comment about current programming
expertise), it is unlikely to make any difference which Linux distro is
used.

Answers to such open-ended questions are usually seated in bias - which
in-turn is mostly likely to be the same answer as 'which is the Linux
distro *I* use?
(I've used a number, with Python, over the years)

The better alignment is to match the version of Python with the book or
course you are using as learning-materials. That way, there are unlikely
to be surprises.

There are differences in Python implementations between Linux, Mac, and
Windows. However, I can't think of a book or course which spends any
time discussing them, or having a chapter which demands one or other OpSys.

When you become more experienced two things will happen: firstly you
will start using tools which enable the use of different versions of
Python for different dev.projects; and secondly you will form your own
opinions of "best"!
(it's not difficult to change distro)


PS most of us will qualify for RedHat's Developer program[me] and free
copies of software.
-- 
Regards,
=dn

From kushal at locationd.net  Thu Aug  4 00:56:14 2022
From: kushal at locationd.net (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2022 21:56:14 -0700
Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
 programming language?
In-Reply-To: <CACsrZYZ1ze8mFD+1hycgw1KgV6i-Qtfa=d1m=9vnVt3xPz5MMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 (Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's message of "Thu, 4 Aug 2022
 10:22:41 +0800")
References: <CACsrZYZ1ze8mFD+1hycgw1KgV6i-Qtfa=d1m=9vnVt3xPz5MMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8735ectxn5.fsf@locationd.net>

On Thu, Aug 04 2022 at 10:22:41 AM, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming <tdtemccna at gmail.com> wrote:
> Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
> programming language?
>
> Good day from Singapore,
>
> May I know which linux distro is more conducive for learning the
> Python programming language?
>
> Since I have absolutely and totally FREE RHEL developer subscription
> (I don't need to spend a single cent), can I use Red Hat Enterprise
> Linux version 9.0 to learn Python?
>
> Is it the most popular linux distro for learning Python?
>
> I just want to know which linux distro and version is more conducive
> for learning Python. Because there are thousands of linux distros out
> there. And I just want to settle down on a particular linux distro and
> version.
>

The best one would be whatever you happen to have installed and for
which you understand system administration.  Beyond that, distribution
choice matters very little.  Every distribution I've used ships python3
packages, which was fine for learning the language.

-- 
regards,
kushal

From sjeik_appie at hotmail.com  Thu Aug  4 03:41:00 2022
From: sjeik_appie at hotmail.com (Albert-Jan Roskam)
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2022 09:41:00 +0200
Subject: Register multiple excepthooks?
In-Reply-To: <25320.3769.224412.136125@ixdm.fritz.box>
Message-ID: <DB6PR01MB3895BEDFCE37B51C1C470113839F9@DB6PR01MB3895.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>

   On Aug 1, 2022 19:34, Dieter Maurer <dieter at handshake.de> wrote:

     Albert-Jan Roskam wrote at 2022-7-31 11:39 +0200:
     >?? I have a function init_logging.log_uncaught_errors() that I use for
     >?? sys.excepthook. Now I also want to call another function
     (ffi.dlclose())
     >?? upon abnormal termination. Is it possible to register multiple
     >?? excepthooks, like with atexit.register? Or should I rename/redefine
     >?? log_uncaught_errors() so it does both things?

     `sys.excepthook` is a single function (not a list of them).
     This means: at any moment a single `excepthook` is effective.

     If you need a modular design, use a dispatcher function
     as your `excepthook` associated with a registry (e.g. a `list`).
     The dispatcher can then call all registered function.

   ====
   Thank you both. I'll give this a try. I think it would be nice if the
   standard library function atexit.register would be improved, such that the
   registered functions would not only be called upon (a) normal program
   termination, but that one could also register functions that are called
   (b) upon error (c) unconditionally. Much like (a) try - (b) except - (c)
   finally.

From tdtemccna at gmail.com  Thu Aug  4 04:36:27 2022
From: tdtemccna at gmail.com (Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 16:36:27 +0800
Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
 programming language?
In-Reply-To: <m2pmhgg1xt.fsf@ioa48nv.localdomain>
References: <CACsrZYZ1ze8mFD+1hycgw1KgV6i-Qtfa=d1m=9vnVt3xPz5MMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <m2tu6sg27r.fsf@ioa48nv.localdomain>
 <CACsrZYYthjvKEQwwBT9J-8joMRfF38jjrDRSN_sdi5=j4uyuLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <m2pmhgg1xt.fsf@ioa48nv.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CACsrZYZdDJBQrFHFNYwMVU3nTdGJRsTDbOrp0VdMOxo2jC8geg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 at 10:47, orzodk <orzodk at neomailbox.net> wrote:
>
> Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming <tdtemccna at gmail.com> writes:
>
> > noted with thanks. I have been using Linux for more than 10 years already
>
> Ah, if you're familiar with Redhat (RPM) based distributions, consider
> Fedora as you will have access to newer versions sooner.
>
> If you're more familiar with Debian (DEB) based distributions, consider
> Ubuntu, again, as the new version release cycle is twice a year.
>
> (Also, my apologies -- I meant to CC the list but failed to do so.)

I am actually quite familiar with many linux distros. I am familiar
with RPM-based linux distros as well as DEB-based linux distros.

Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
Targeted Individual in Singapore

From tdtemccna at gmail.com  Thu Aug  4 04:41:54 2022
From: tdtemccna at gmail.com (Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 16:41:54 +0800
Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
 programming language?
In-Reply-To: <817fc64a-15c4-c713-6451-128224da80ed@DancesWithMice.info>
References: <CACsrZYZ1ze8mFD+1hycgw1KgV6i-Qtfa=d1m=9vnVt3xPz5MMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <af6b75ba37e69ef04bcf8100204fa6b71779691f.camel@anode.ca>
 <817fc64a-15c4-c713-6451-128224da80ed@DancesWithMice.info>
Message-ID: <CACsrZYa5LdrCK+S=rHaKZ0snFRNPYFyGQ+xgJAn_3P5jdtR=LQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 at 11:05, dn <PythonList at danceswithmice.info> wrote:
>
> On 04/08/2022 14.31, Paul Bryan wrote:
> > I wouldn't say any particular Linux distribution is appreciably better
> > for Python development than another. I would suggest using a version of
> > a Linux distribution that supports a recent Python release (e.g. 3.9 or
> > 3.10).
>
> +1
>
> As a Python-learner (there's no comment about current programming
> expertise), it is unlikely to make any difference which Linux distro is
> used.
>
> Answers to such open-ended questions are usually seated in bias - which
> in-turn is mostly likely to be the same answer as 'which is the Linux
> distro *I* use?
> (I've used a number, with Python, over the years)
>
> The better alignment is to match the version of Python with the book or
> course you are using as learning-materials. That way, there are unlikely
> to be surprises.

Noted on this.

>
> There are differences in Python implementations between Linux, Mac, and
> Windows. However, I can't think of a book or course which spends any
> time discussing them, or having a chapter which demands one or other OpSys.
>
> When you become more experienced two things will happen: firstly you
> will start using tools which enable the use of different versions of
> Python for different dev.projects; and secondly you will form your own
> opinions of "best"!
> (it's not difficult to change distro)
>
>
> PS most of us will qualify for RedHat's Developer program[me] and free
> copies of software.

I can download free copies of RHEL 7.x, 8.x, and 9.x :) Just that I
dunno which RHEL version is better. Is RHEL 9.0 the best out of 7.x,
8.x and 9.x?

> --
> Regards,
> =dn

Regards,

Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
Targeted Individual in Singapore

From tdtemccna at gmail.com  Thu Aug  4 04:45:03 2022
From: tdtemccna at gmail.com (Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 16:45:03 +0800
Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
 programming language?
In-Reply-To: <8735ectxn5.fsf@locationd.net>
References: <CACsrZYZ1ze8mFD+1hycgw1KgV6i-Qtfa=d1m=9vnVt3xPz5MMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <8735ectxn5.fsf@locationd.net>
Message-ID: <CACsrZYbNq=XYjpeKRnOCtzxL8yGC=aS+dA8Rg4vs+keEMbc9ew@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 at 13:02, Kushal Kumaran <kushal at locationd.net> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Aug 04 2022 at 10:22:41 AM, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming <tdtemccna at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
> > programming language?
> >
> > Good day from Singapore,
> >
> > May I know which linux distro is more conducive for learning the
> > Python programming language?
> >
> > Since I have absolutely and totally FREE RHEL developer subscription
> > (I don't need to spend a single cent), can I use Red Hat Enterprise
> > Linux version 9.0 to learn Python?
> >
> > Is it the most popular linux distro for learning Python?
> >
> > I just want to know which linux distro and version is more conducive
> > for learning Python. Because there are thousands of linux distros out
> > there. And I just want to settle down on a particular linux distro and
> > version.
> >
>
> The best one would be whatever you happen to have installed and for
> which you understand system administration.  Beyond that, distribution
> choice matters very little.  Every distribution I've used ships python3
> packages, which was fine for learning the language.
>
> --
> regards,
> kushal

Noted with thanks Kushal. Since I can download FREE copies of RHEL
9.0, I will use it then.

Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
Targeted Individual in Singapore

From PythonList at DancesWithMice.info  Thu Aug  4 04:50:41 2022
From: PythonList at DancesWithMice.info (dn)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 20:50:41 +1200
Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
 programming language?
In-Reply-To: <CACsrZYa5LdrCK+S=rHaKZ0snFRNPYFyGQ+xgJAn_3P5jdtR=LQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACsrZYZ1ze8mFD+1hycgw1KgV6i-Qtfa=d1m=9vnVt3xPz5MMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <af6b75ba37e69ef04bcf8100204fa6b71779691f.camel@anode.ca>
 <817fc64a-15c4-c713-6451-128224da80ed@DancesWithMice.info>
 <CACsrZYa5LdrCK+S=rHaKZ0snFRNPYFyGQ+xgJAn_3P5jdtR=LQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f79ba316-494b-285c-cee2-ba76376dc902@DancesWithMice.info>

>> PS most of us will qualify for RedHat's Developer program[me] and free
>> copies of software.
> 
> I can download free copies of RHEL 7.x, 8.x, and 9.x :) Just that I
> dunno which RHEL version is better. Is RHEL 9.0 the best out of 7.x,
> 8.x and 9.x?

RedHat is a stable OpSys. Accordingly, it doesn't much matter which
version. The general assumption is that the more recent distribution has
more advanced facilities, eg improved security features in RHEL9.

As another post says, Fedora is closer to the bleeding-edge of Linux
development.

Be aware that there are many methods of adding Python. For example, if
your training is based on the Anaconda [Python] distribution, then it is
irrelevant which version of Python comes with the Linux distro. As
mentioned before, if you advance to developing in [Python] virtual
environments, then each of these could run a different version of
Python. Similarly, using a VM...

The question is relatively minor. More important to 'get going'!
(also mentioned previously: relatively easy to change (Python or distro)
'later'!)
-- 
Regards,
=dn

From tdtemccna at gmail.com  Thu Aug  4 04:58:53 2022
From: tdtemccna at gmail.com (Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 16:58:53 +0800
Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
 programming language?
In-Reply-To: <f79ba316-494b-285c-cee2-ba76376dc902@DancesWithMice.info>
References: <CACsrZYZ1ze8mFD+1hycgw1KgV6i-Qtfa=d1m=9vnVt3xPz5MMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <af6b75ba37e69ef04bcf8100204fa6b71779691f.camel@anode.ca>
 <817fc64a-15c4-c713-6451-128224da80ed@DancesWithMice.info>
 <CACsrZYa5LdrCK+S=rHaKZ0snFRNPYFyGQ+xgJAn_3P5jdtR=LQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <f79ba316-494b-285c-cee2-ba76376dc902@DancesWithMice.info>
Message-ID: <CACsrZYbf99kg40qd18OaePcxRjr67JzG0Jq69-4NYoUSqQu6tA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 at 16:50, dn <PythonList at danceswithmice.info> wrote:
>
> >> PS most of us will qualify for RedHat's Developer program[me] and free
> >> copies of software.
> >
> > I can download free copies of RHEL 7.x, 8.x, and 9.x :) Just that I
> > dunno which RHEL version is better. Is RHEL 9.0 the best out of 7.x,
> > 8.x and 9.x?
>
> RedHat is a stable OpSys. Accordingly, it doesn't much matter which
> version. The general assumption is that the more recent distribution has
> more advanced facilities, eg improved security features in RHEL9.
>
> As another post says, Fedora is closer to the bleeding-edge of Linux
> development.

RHEL 9.0 is also quite close to the bleeding edge of Linux
development. It has Linux kernel version 5.14.0.

>
> Be aware that there are many methods of adding Python. For example, if
> your training is based on the Anaconda [Python] distribution, then it is
> irrelevant which version of Python comes with the Linux distro. As
> mentioned before, if you advance to developing in [Python] virtual
> environments, then each of these could run a different version of
> Python. Similarly, using a VM...
>
> The question is relatively minor. More important to 'get going'!

I am going to get going on learning Python with RHEL 9.0.

> (also mentioned previously: relatively easy to change (Python or distro)
> 'later'!)
> --
> Regards,
> =dn

Regards,

Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
Targeted Individual in Singapore

From gweatherby at uchc.edu  Thu Aug  4 06:57:49 2022
From: gweatherby at uchc.edu (Weatherby,Gerard)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 10:57:49 +0000
Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
 programming language?
In-Reply-To: <CACsrZYbf99kg40qd18OaePcxRjr67JzG0Jq69-4NYoUSqQu6tA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACsrZYZ1ze8mFD+1hycgw1KgV6i-Qtfa=d1m=9vnVt3xPz5MMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <af6b75ba37e69ef04bcf8100204fa6b71779691f.camel@anode.ca>
 <817fc64a-15c4-c713-6451-128224da80ed@DancesWithMice.info>
 <CACsrZYa5LdrCK+S=rHaKZ0snFRNPYFyGQ+xgJAn_3P5jdtR=LQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <f79ba316-494b-285c-cee2-ba76376dc902@DancesWithMice.info>
 <CACsrZYbf99kg40qd18OaePcxRjr67JzG0Jq69-4NYoUSqQu6tA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <af21d948-c5bb-48eb-a264-045b995d6508@Spark>

Just be aware https://docs.python.org/3/ defaults to the latest Python version (3.10). When looking up a module, it?s best to explicitly set the documentation to the version you are using. It won?t matter the vast majority of the time but I have been burned by trying to use a function or parameter that was introduced with a later version.

?
Gerard Weatherby | Application Architect NMRbox | NAN | Department of Molecular Biology and Biophysics
 UConn Health 263 Farmington Avenue, Farmington, CT 06030-6406 uchc.edu
On Aug 4, 2022, 5:00 AM -0400, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming <tdtemccna at gmail.com>, wrote:
*** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution responding, opening attachments or clicking on links. ***

On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 at 16:50, dn <PythonList at danceswithmice.info> wrote:

PS most of us will qualify for RedHat's Developer program[me] and free
copies of software.

I can download free copies of RHEL 7.x, 8.x, and 9.x :) Just that I
dunno which RHEL version is better. Is RHEL 9.0 the best out of 7.x,
8.x and 9.x?

RedHat is a stable OpSys. Accordingly, it doesn't much matter which
version. The general assumption is that the more recent distribution has
more advanced facilities, eg improved security features in RHEL9.

As another post says, Fedora is closer to the bleeding-edge of Linux
development.

RHEL 9.0 is also quite close to the bleeding edge of Linux
development. It has Linux kernel version 5.14.0.


Be aware that there are many methods of adding Python. For example, if
your training is based on the Anaconda [Python] distribution, then it is
irrelevant which version of Python comes with the Linux distro. As
mentioned before, if you advance to developing in [Python] virtual
environments, then each of these could run a different version of
Python. Similarly, using a VM...

The question is relatively minor. More important to 'get going'!

I am going to get going on learning Python with RHEL 9.0.

(also mentioned previously: relatively easy to change (Python or distro)
'later'!)
--
Regards,
=dn

Regards,

Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
Targeted Individual in Singapore
--
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list__;!!Cn_UX_p3!mxIe1U15eEI7AomZUwIzjK0lVTfFXHto6Atu7jqaE58V0YUQc2K8s9LrjPDNjOXjQ5NB3Tu-cqbRDnx0pmu6$

From 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com  Thu Aug  4 07:13:28 2022
From: 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com (2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 06:13:28 -0500
Subject: Register multiple excepthooks?
In-Reply-To: <DB6PR01MB3895BEDFCE37B51C1C470113839F9@DB6PR01MB3895.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <25320.3769.224412.136125@ixdm.fritz.box>
 <DB6PR01MB3895BEDFCE37B51C1C470113839F9@DB6PR01MB3895.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <Yuup2A8vqJGL2rDD@anomaly>

On 2022-08-04 at 09:41:00 +0200,
Albert-Jan Roskam <sjeik_appie at hotmail.com> wrote:

>    Thank you both. I'll give this a try. I think it would be nice if
>    the standard library function atexit.register would be improved,
>    such that the registered functions would not only be called upon
>    (a) normal program termination, but that one could also register
>    functions that are called (b) upon error (c) unconditionally. Much
>    like (a) try - (b) except - (c) finally.

There.  You've just designed the top level of a better behaved, more
robust application (completely untested):

    on_normal_exit_funcs = list()
    on_error_exit_funcs = list()
    on_any_exit_funcs = list()

    def run_exit_funcs(exit_funcs):
        for func in exit_funcs:
            try: func()
            except e: maybe_do_some_logging(e)

    try:
        run_the_application()
        run_exit_funcs(on_normal_exit_funcs)
    except:
        run_exit_funcs(on_error_exit_funcs)
    finally:
        run_exit_funcs(on_any_exit_funcs)

    def register_normal_exit_func(f):
        on_normal_exit_funcs.append(f)

    def register_error_exit_func(f):
        on_error_exit_funcs.append(f)

    def register_any_exit_func(f):
        on_any_exit_funcs.append(f)

No, really.  There are worse ways to build an extremely generic, fairly
minimalist application framework.

Season to taste,? add it to your personal (or company) toolbox, and
refine and improve it as things come up.  You may discover some number
of common exit functions that are useful across appliations, too.

? are you object oriented, functional, imperative, or something else?
do you like long names, short names, names that follow some existing
coding standard, non-English names? do you have a standardized
logging/exception library?

From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Thu Aug  4 10:34:48 2022
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2022 07:34:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
 programming language?
References: <CACsrZYZ1ze8mFD+1hycgw1KgV6i-Qtfa=d1m=9vnVt3xPz5MMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <62ebd908.c80a0220.9175a.1dcf@mx.google.com>

On 2022-08-04, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming <tdtemccna at gmail.com> wrote:

> Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
> programming language?

You can learn Python on any Linux distribution.

First answer this question:

 * Whom are you going to ask for help when you run into Linux questions?

Install the Linux distro that person uses.


--
Grant

From maharajashiv1532 at outlook.com  Thu Aug  4 09:33:46 2022
From: maharajashiv1532 at outlook.com (MahaRaja Shiv)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 13:33:46 +0000
Subject: My application failed to start because no Qt platform plugin could be
 initialized. Reinstalled the application several times my problem
 didn't got fixed.
Message-ID: <CO3PR03MB672745D24D93B81300DE5B89C09F9@CO3PR03MB6727.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows


From loris.bennett at fu-berlin.de  Thu Aug  4 07:51:24 2022
From: loris.bennett at fu-berlin.de (Loris Bennett)
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2022 13:51:24 +0200
Subject: Exclude 'None' from list comprehension of dicts
Message-ID: <871qtwkz0j.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>

Hi,

I am constructing a list of dictionaries via the following list
comprehension:

  data = [get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id) for job_id in job_ids]

However,

  get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id)

uses 'subprocess.Popen' to run an external program and this can fail.
In this case, the dict should just be omitted from 'data'.

I can have 'get_job_efficiency_dict' return 'None' and then run

  filtered_data = list(filter(None, data))

but is there a more elegant way?

Cheers,

Loris

-- 
This signature is currently under construction.

From loris.bennett at fu-berlin.de  Thu Aug  4 08:58:28 2022
From: loris.bennett at fu-berlin.de (Loris Bennett)
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2022 14:58:28 +0200
Subject: Exclude 'None' from list comprehension of dicts
References: <871qtwkz0j.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
 <None-20220804133612@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <87sfmcjhcb.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>

ram at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:

> "Loris Bennett" <loris.bennett at fu-berlin.de> writes:
>>data = [get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id) for job_id in job_ids]
> ...
>>filtered_data = list(filter(None, data))
>
>   You could have "get_job_efficiency_dict" return an iterable
>   that yields either zero dictionaries or one dictionary.
>   For example, a list with either zero entries or one entry.
>
>   Then, use "itertools.chain.from_iterable" to merge all those
>   lists with empty lists effectively removed. E.g.,
>
> print( list( itertools.chain.from_iterable( [[ 1 ], [], [ 2 ], [ 3 ]])))
>
>   will print
>
> [1, 2, 3]

'itertool' is a bit of a blind-spot of mine, so thanks for pointing that
out. 

>   . Or, consider a boring old "for" loop:
>
> data = []
> for job_id in job_ids:
>     dictionary = get_job_efficiency_dict( job_id )
>     if dictionary:
>         data.append( dictionary )
>
>   . It might not be "elegant", but it's quite readable to me.

To me to.  However, 'data' can occasionally consist of many 10,000s of
elements.  Would there be a potential performance problem here?  Even if
there is, it wouldn't be so bad, as the aggregation of the data is not
time-critical and only occurs once a month.  Still, I wouldn't want the
program to be unnecessarily inefficient.

Cheers,

Loris

-- 
This signature is currently under construction.

From toby at tobiah.org  Thu Aug  4 10:51:53 2022
From: toby at tobiah.org (Tobiah)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 07:51:53 -0700
Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
 programming language?
References: <6925a2865417ad64c41cfb3f5a509dfb@teo-en-ming-corp.com>
 <mailman.178.1659582025.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tcgmea$1vq6$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On 8/3/22 19:01, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:
> Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python programming language?

You might try Pythontu.

Not really.  Get the distro that looks appealing to you.
One won't be better than the other with regard to learning
python.



> Good day from Singapore,
> 
> May I know which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python programming language?
> 
> Since I have absolutely and totally FREE RHEL developer subscription (I don't need to spend a single cent), can I use Red Hat Enterprise Linux version 9.0 to learn Python?
> 
> Is it the most popular linux distro for learning Python?
> 
> I just want to know which linux distro and version is more conducive for learning Python. Because there are thousands of linux distros out there. And I just want to settle down on a particular linux distro and version.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
> Targeted Individual in Singapore
> 4 Aug 2022 Thursday
> Blogs:
> https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.com
> https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com


From barry at barrys-emacs.org  Thu Aug  4 14:12:17 2022
From: barry at barrys-emacs.org (Barry)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:12:17 +0100
Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
 programming language?
In-Reply-To: <CACsrZYbNq=XYjpeKRnOCtzxL8yGC=aS+dA8Rg4vs+keEMbc9ew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACsrZYbNq=XYjpeKRnOCtzxL8yGC=aS+dA8Rg4vs+keEMbc9ew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E23C9C8A-78BF-4F94-A51F-BB294D84A05D@barrys-emacs.org>



> On 4 Aug 2022, at 09:48, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming <tdtemccna at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 at 13:02, Kushal Kumaran <kushal at locationd.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 04 2022 at 10:22:41 AM, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming <tdtemccna at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
>>> programming language?
>>> 
>>> Good day from Singapore,
>>> 
>>> May I know which linux distro is more conducive for learning the
>>> Python programming language?
>>> 
>>> Since I have absolutely and totally FREE RHEL developer subscription
>>> (I don't need to spend a single cent), can I use Red Hat Enterprise
>>> Linux version 9.0 to learn Python?
>>> 
>>> Is it the most popular linux distro for learning Python?
>>> 
>>> I just want to know which linux distro and version is more conducive
>>> for learning Python. Because there are thousands of linux distros out
>>> there. And I just want to settle down on a particular linux distro and
>>> version.
>>> 
>> 
>> The best one would be whatever you happen to have installed and for
>> which you understand system administration.  Beyond that, distribution
>> choice matters very little.  Every distribution I've used ships python3
>> packages, which was fine for learning the language.
>> 
>> --
>> regards,
>> kushal
> 
> Noted with thanks Kushal. Since I can download FREE copies of RHEL
> 9.0, I will use it then.

I consider rhel 9 is an old os. I would suggest using fedora over rhel.
Fedora 36 has python 3.10 and the when fedora 37 is released it will have python 3.11.
And fedora is free as well.

Barry


> 
> Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
> Targeted Individual in Singapore
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


From christian at python.org  Thu Aug  4 14:33:13 2022
From: christian at python.org (Christian Heimes)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 20:33:13 +0200
Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
 programming language?
In-Reply-To: <E23C9C8A-78BF-4F94-A51F-BB294D84A05D@barrys-emacs.org>
References: <CACsrZYbNq=XYjpeKRnOCtzxL8yGC=aS+dA8Rg4vs+keEMbc9ew@mail.gmail.com>
 <E23C9C8A-78BF-4F94-A51F-BB294D84A05D@barrys-emacs.org>
Message-ID: <0aa3498a-ccec-c013-6829-d2e17ae51506@python.org>

On 04/08/2022 20.12, Barry wrote:
>> Noted with thanks Kushal. Since I can download FREE copies of RHEL
>> 9.0, I will use it then.
> 
> I consider rhel 9 is an old os. I would suggest using fedora over rhel.
> Fedora 36 has python 3.10 and the when fedora 37 is released it will have python 3.11.
> And fedora is free as well.

Fedora is an excellent choice for Python users. Fedora 36 already comes 
with Python 3.11.0b5 in its main repository. In fact you have Python 
2.7, 3.5-3.11, PyPy 2.7, PyPy 3.7-3.9, and MicroPython at your fingertips.

Christian

From antoon.pardon at vub.be  Thu Aug  4 14:35:55 2022
From: antoon.pardon at vub.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 20:35:55 +0200
Subject: Exclude 'None' from list comprehension of dicts
In-Reply-To: <871qtwkz0j.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
References: <871qtwkz0j.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <137bc40d-4545-226b-44d0-4770dcd8fea6@vub.be>

Op 4/08/2022 om 13:51 schreef Loris Bennett:
> Hi,
>
> I am constructing a list of dictionaries via the following list
> comprehension:
>
>    data = [get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id) for job_id in job_ids]
>
> However,
>
>    get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id)
>
> uses 'subprocess.Popen' to run an external program and this can fail.
> In this case, the dict should just be omitted from 'data'.
>
> I can have 'get_job_efficiency_dict' return 'None' and then run
>
>    filtered_data = list(filter(None, data))
>
> but is there a more elegant way?

Just wondering, why don't you return an empty dictionary in case of a failure?
In that case your list will be all dictionaries and empty ones will be processed
fast enough.

-- 
Antoon Pardon.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug  4 14:50:16 2022
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:50:16 +0100
Subject: Exclude 'None' from list comprehension of dicts
In-Reply-To: <871qtwkz0j.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
References: <871qtwkz0j.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <d7e07c63-fe53-7f12-529f-7d4bec94884d@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2022-08-04 12:51, Loris Bennett wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am constructing a list of dictionaries via the following list
> comprehension:
> 
>    data = [get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id) for job_id in job_ids]
> 
> However,
> 
>    get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id)
> 
> uses 'subprocess.Popen' to run an external program and this can fail.
> In this case, the dict should just be omitted from 'data'.
> 
> I can have 'get_job_efficiency_dict' return 'None' and then run
> 
>    filtered_data = list(filter(None, data))
> 
> but is there a more elegant way?
> 
I'm not sure how elegant it is, but:

data = [result for job_id in job_ids if (result := 
get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id)) is not None]

From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Thu Aug  4 15:00:29 2022
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2022 12:00:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
 programming language?
References: <CACsrZYbNq=XYjpeKRnOCtzxL8yGC=aS+dA8Rg4vs+keEMbc9ew@mail.gmail.com>
 <E23C9C8A-78BF-4F94-A51F-BB294D84A05D@barrys-emacs.org>
 <0aa3498a-ccec-c013-6829-d2e17ae51506@python.org>
Message-ID: <62ec174d.c80a0220.b04eb.3ad1@mx.google.com>

On 2022-08-04, Christian Heimes <christian at python.org> wrote:

> Fedora is an excellent choice for Python users. Fedora 36 already comes 
> with Python 3.11.0b5 in its main repository. In fact you have Python 
> 2.7, 3.5-3.11, PyPy 2.7, PyPy 3.7-3.9, and MicroPython at your fingertips.

Except that real programmers use Python 1.52 because they depend on the
assumption that integers are native word size and arithmatic is done
modulo-maxunsigned the same way it is in assembly language...

;)

Honestly, back when I was implementing netowrk protocols in Python on
a 32-bit machine, it was very useful having 32-bit Python integers.



From gweatherby at uchc.edu  Thu Aug  4 15:01:03 2022
From: gweatherby at uchc.edu (Weatherby,Gerard)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:01:03 +0000
Subject: Exclude 'None' from list comprehension of dicts
In-Reply-To: <d7e07c63-fe53-7f12-529f-7d4bec94884d@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <871qtwkz0j.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
 <d7e07c63-fe53-7f12-529f-7d4bec94884d@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <c0f4e784-4ef1-456e-9a1c-dd06f02f7661@Spark>

Or:

data = [d for d in [get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id) for job_id in job_ids] if d is not None]

or

for job_id in job_ids:
    if (d := get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id)) is not None:
      data.append(d)


Personally, I?d got with the latter in my own code.

?
Gerard Weatherby | Application Architect NMRbox | NAN | Department of Molecular Biology and Biophysics
 UConn Health 263 Farmington Avenue, Farmington, CT 06030-6406 uchc.edu
On Aug 4, 2022, 2:52 PM -0400, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com>, wrote:
*** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution responding, opening attachments or clicking on links. ***

On 2022-08-04 12:51, Loris Bennett wrote:
Hi,

I am constructing a list of dictionaries via the following list
comprehension:

data = [get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id) for job_id in job_ids]

However,

get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id)

uses 'subprocess.Popen' to run an external program and this can fail.
In this case, the dict should just be omitted from 'data'.

I can have 'get_job_efficiency_dict' return 'None' and then run

filtered_data = list(filter(None, data))

but is there a more elegant way?

I'm not sure how elegant it is, but:

data = [result for job_id in job_ids if (result :=
get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id)) is not None]
--
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list__;!!Cn_UX_p3!iqxhYMoHcYQY1xohGCpafpBKZIUcGEV6Zj1-RLzOCF61TUXGr-8oh9HLuL-H8w4gxgDCypcOYOYkqNXLJxUIqhWd$

From avi.e.gross at gmail.com  Thu Aug  4 16:22:45 2022
From: avi.e.gross at gmail.com (avi.e.gross at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 16:22:45 -0400
Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
 programming language?
In-Reply-To: <62ebd908.c80a0220.9175a.1dcf@mx.google.com>
References: <CACsrZYZ1ze8mFD+1hycgw1KgV6i-Qtfa=d1m=9vnVt3xPz5MMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62ebd908.c80a0220.9175a.1dcf@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <007101d8a83f$f5b8e1d0$e12aa570$@gmail.com>

To be clear, the discussion strikes me oddly.

You can learn python without a computer. Of course to actually have people
write code and try it out is another story.

Python by itself is simply a program that can be typed into an interpreter
or given a file to process and works just as well on LINUX, Windows and so
on. I have half a dozen varieties on my machine from various
modes/distributions.

As some have pointed out, any RECENT version of python (presumably the 3
version unless your goal is to teach the older version) should be fine for
teaching but obviously all kinds of tools can help. But there are online
resources that may be adequate that require NOTHING but a browser:

https://py3.codeskulptor.org/

The above URL allows you to create and run and save python files and is
probably adequate for teaching basics and for sharing programs others have
saved by sending you the URL. 

Of course, beyond a certain point, it fails to meet needs such as not
supporting importing random modules.

But as was discussed here before, you can find little time to teach python
if you also have to teach every environment and editor and especially handle
students using other choices. But to ask everyone to use the same LINUX
distribution may also be a drastic step. 

The reality is that simple python programs can be handled with any standard
text editor. Sure, lots of bells and whistles can be added and there may
well be advantages to using systems ranging from anaconda  to lately RSTUDIO
but they often come with many superfluous features and lots of complexity.

-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list <python-list-bounces+avi.e.gross=gmail.com at python.org> On
Behalf Of Grant Edwards
Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2022 10:35 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python
programming language?

On 2022-08-04, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming <tdtemccna at gmail.com> wrote:

> Subject: Which linux distro is more conducive for learning the Python 
> programming language?

You can learn Python on any Linux distribution.

First answer this question:

 * Whom are you going to ask for help when you run into Linux questions?

Install the Linux distro that person uses.


--
Grant
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From ojomooluwatolami675 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  5 03:34:45 2022
From: ojomooluwatolami675 at gmail.com (ojomooluwatolami675 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 08:34:45 +0100
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
Message-ID: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>

Hello, I?m new to learning python and I stumbled upon a question nested loops. This is the question below. Can you please how they arrived at 9 as the answer. Thanks 

var = 0
for i in range(3):
  for j in range(-2,-7,-2):
    var += 1
     print(var)

Sent from my iPhone

From lal at solute.de  Fri Aug  5 03:47:22 2022
From: lal at solute.de (Lars Liedtke)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 09:47:22 +0200
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e0c33c0e-8fc0-b888-c466-07e3b11b1bd1@solute.de>

Hello,

this looks to me like it might be a piece of homework, as it would be 
given by teachers or professors.

This list has got the rule, that members do not solve other's homework. 
Because very often homework is meant to sit down and think about it.

But maybe I interpreted that wrongly, so if you could try to formulate 
in words what this loop does, I or other people on this list, will be 
pleased to show you where you might have got things wrong and how it 
really works.

Cheers

Lars


-- 
Lars Liedtke
Software Entwickler

			
Phone: 	
Fax: 	+49 721 98993-
E-mail:	lal at solute.de


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Am 05.08.22 um 09:34 schrieb ojomooluwatolami675 at gmail.com:
> Hello, I?m new to learning python and I stumbled upon a question nested loops. This is the question below. Can you please how they arrived at 9 as the answer. Thanks
>
> var = 0
> for i in range(3):
>    for j in range(-2,-7,-2):
>      var += 1
>       print(var)
>
> Sent from my iPhone


From frank at chagford.com  Fri Aug  5 03:56:03 2022
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 09:56:03 +0200
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1c043e8f-47c9-153e-84c3-8343a28247db@chagford.com>

On 2022-08-05 9:34 AM, ojomooluwatolami675 at gmail.com wrote:
> Hello, I?m new to learning python and I stumbled upon a question nested loops. This is the question below. Can you please how they arrived at 9 as the answer. Thanks
> 
> var = 0
> for i in range(3):
>    for j in range(-2,-7,-2):
>      var += 1
>       print(var)
> 

Welcome to Python. I am sure you are going to enjoy it.

To learn Python, you must learn to use the Python interactive prompt 
(also known as the REPL).

Type 'python' at your console, and it should bring up something like this -

C:\Users\E7280>python
Python 3.9.7 (tags/v3.9.7:1016ef3, Aug 30 2021, 20:19:38) [MSC v.1929 64 
bit (AMD64)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>>

The confusing part of your example above is 'for j in range(-2,-7,-2)'.

To find out what it does, enter it at the '>>>' prompt -

 >>> for j in range(-2, -7, -2):
...     print(j)
...
-2
-4
-6
 >>>

For the purposes of your exercise, all you need to know at this stage is 
that it loops three times.

Does that help answer your question? If not, feel free to come back with 
more questions.

BTW, there is an indentation error in your original post - line 5 should 
line up with line 4. It is preferable to copy/paste your code into any 
messages posted here rather than type it in, as that avoids the 
possibility of any typos.

Frank Millman


From cs at cskk.id.au  Fri Aug  5 04:30:05 2022
From: cs at cskk.id.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 18:30:05 +1000
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <e0c33c0e-8fc0-b888-c466-07e3b11b1bd1@solute.de>
References: <e0c33c0e-8fc0-b888-c466-07e3b11b1bd1@solute.de>
Message-ID: <YuzVDR5zKUbWmORm@cskk.homeip.net>

On 05Aug2022 09:47, Lars Liedtke <lal at solute.de> wrote:
>this looks to me like it might be a piece of homework, as it would be 
>given by teachers or professors.
>
>This list has got the rule, that members do not solve other's 
>homework. Because very often homework is meant to sit down and think 
>about it.

Very true.

However, we're happy to help people understand things.

In this case it look like Frank has provided apt advice, showing the OP 
how to see how many times the inner loop runs, which affects how many 
times `var+=1` occurs.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at cskk.id.au>

From gweatherby at uchc.edu  Fri Aug  5 09:13:09 2022
From: gweatherby at uchc.edu (Weatherby,Gerard)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 13:13:09 +0000
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <YuzVDR5zKUbWmORm@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <e0c33c0e-8fc0-b888-c466-07e3b11b1bd1@solute.de>
 <YuzVDR5zKUbWmORm@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <797d3669-0161-4d4d-8704-07fb622ef812@Spark>

It?s also a poor code example. Doing a pointless double loop is not good instructional practice, especially when simpler alternatives exist. e.g.

for i in range(3):
    for j in range(-2.-7,-2):
print(i +j )


?
Gerard Weatherby | Application Architect NMRbox | NAN | Department of Molecular Biology and Biophysics
 UConn Health 263 Farmington Avenue, Farmington, CT 06030-6406 uchc.edu
On Aug 5, 2022, 4:38 AM -0400, ojomooluwatolami675 at gmail.com <ojomooluwatolami675 at gmail.com>, wrote:

var = 0
for i in range(3):
for j in range(-2,-7,-2):
var += 1
print(var)

From dieter at handshake.de  Fri Aug  5 13:38:05 2022
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 19:38:05 +0200
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <25325.21885.560476.715686@ixdm.fritz.box>

ojomooluwatolami675 at gmail.com wrote at 2022-8-5 08:34 +0100:
>Hello, I?m new to learning python and I stumbled upon a question nested loops.

For future, more complex, questions of this kind,
you might have a look at the module `pdb` in Python's runtime library.
It implements a debugger which allows you (among other features)
to interactively run a program line by line
and explore the state of all involved variables.
There are also IDEs (= Integrated Development Environments) which
support this.

Whenever a program does things you do not understand,
debugging usually helps to bring light into the scene.

From loris.bennett at fu-berlin.de  Fri Aug  5 01:50:25 2022
From: loris.bennett at fu-berlin.de (Loris Bennett)
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2022 07:50:25 +0200
Subject: Exclude 'None' from list comprehension of dicts
References: <871qtwkz0j.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
 <137bc40d-4545-226b-44d0-4770dcd8fea6@vub.be>
 <mailman.193.1659638162.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87czdf9r32.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>

Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at vub.be> writes:

> Op 4/08/2022 om 13:51 schreef Loris Bennett:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am constructing a list of dictionaries via the following list
>> comprehension:
>>
>>    data = [get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id) for job_id in job_ids]
>>
>> However,
>>
>>    get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id)
>>
>> uses 'subprocess.Popen' to run an external program and this can fail.
>> In this case, the dict should just be omitted from 'data'.
>>
>> I can have 'get_job_efficiency_dict' return 'None' and then run
>>
>>    filtered_data = list(filter(None, data))
>>
>> but is there a more elegant way?
>
> Just wondering, why don't you return an empty dictionary in case of a failure?
> In that case your list will be all dictionaries and empty ones will be processed
> fast enough.

When the list of dictionaries is processed, I would have to check each
element to see if it is empty.  That strikes me as being less efficient
than filtering out the empty dictionaries in one go, although obviously
one would need to benchmark that.

Cheers,

Loris


-- 
This signature is currently under construction.

From NOTsomeone at microsoft.invalid  Fri Aug  5 05:56:34 2022
From: NOTsomeone at microsoft.invalid (GB)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 10:56:34 +0100
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <mailman.200.1659686206.20444.python-list@python.org>
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
 <1c043e8f-47c9-153e-84c3-8343a28247db@chagford.com>
 <mailman.200.1659686206.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tcipgj$347ur$1@dont-email.me>

On 05/08/2022 08:56, Frank Millman wrote:

> BTW, there is an indentation error in your original post - line 5 should 
> line up with line 4. 

As a Python beginner, I find that Python is annoyingly picky about 
indents.  And, the significance of indents is a bit of a minefield for 
beginners.

For example, in the above code, the indent of the final line very 
significantly affects the results:

print(var)
     print(var)
         print(var)

These are all different.




From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Fri Aug  5 15:53:59 2022
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2022 12:53:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
 <1c043e8f-47c9-153e-84c3-8343a28247db@chagford.com>
 <mailman.200.1659686206.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tcipgj$347ur$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <62ed7557.050a0220.1d68f.2d24@mx.google.com>

On 2022-08-05, GB <NOTsomeone at microsoft.invalid> wrote:

>> BTW, there is an indentation error in your original post - line 5
>> should line up with line 4.
>
> As a Python beginner, I find that Python is annoyingly picky about 
> indents.  And, the significance of indents is a bit of a minefield for 
> beginners.

As a C beginner, you'll find that C is annoyingly picky about curly
braces and semcolons.

All programming languages are picky about syntax.

> For example, in the above code, the indent of the final line very 
> significantly affects the results:
>
> print(var)
>      print(var)
>          print(var)
>
> These are all different.

Indeed. It looks different, and it _is_ different. Seems like a good
thing to me. I like programs to do what it looks like they are going
to do.

In C, this doesn't do what it looks like it's supposed to do.

   if (foo)
     do_this();
     and_this();
   then_do_this();


From avi.e.gross at gmail.com  Fri Aug  5 16:44:37 2022
From: avi.e.gross at gmail.com (avi.e.gross at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 16:44:37 -0400
Subject: Exclude 'None' from list comprehension of dicts
In-Reply-To: <87czdf9r32.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
References: <871qtwkz0j.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
 <137bc40d-4545-226b-44d0-4770dcd8fea6@vub.be>
 <mailman.193.1659638162.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <87czdf9r32.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <01a101d8a90c$2d89d8e0$889d8aa0$@gmail.com>

Benchmarking aside, Lori, there are some ideas about such things.

You are describing a case, in abstract terms, where an algorithm grinds away
and produces results that may include an occasional or a common unwanted
result. The question is when to eliminate the unwanted. Do you eliminate
them immediately at the expense of some extra code at that point, or do you
want till much later or even at the end?

The answer is it DEPENDS and let me point out that many problems can start
multi-dimensional (as in processing a 5-D matrix) and produce a linear
output (as in a 1-D list) or it can be the other way around. Sometimes what
you want eliminated is something like duplicates. Is it easier to remove
duplicates as they happen, or later when you have some huge data structure
containing oodles of copies of each duplicate?

You can imagine many scenarios and sometimes you need to also look at costs.
What does it cost to check if a token is valid, as in can the word be found
in a dictionary? Is it cheaper to wait till you have lots of words including
duplicates and do one lookup to find a bad word then mark it so future
occurrences are removed without that kind of lookup? Or is it better to read
I the dictionary once and hash it so later access is easy?

In your case, you have a single simple criterion for recognizing an item to
leave out. So the above may not apply. But I note we often use pre-created
software that simply returns a result and then the only reasonable way to
remove things  is after calling it. Empty or unwanted items may take up some
room, though, so a long-running process may be better off pruning as it
goes.

-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list <python-list-bounces+avi.e.gross=gmail.com at python.org> On
Behalf Of Loris Bennett
Sent: Friday, August 5, 2022 1:50 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Exclude 'None' from list comprehension of dicts

Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at vub.be> writes:

> Op 4/08/2022 om 13:51 schreef Loris Bennett:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am constructing a list of dictionaries via the following list
>> comprehension:
>>
>>    data = [get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id) for job_id in job_ids]
>>
>> However,
>>
>>    get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id)
>>
>> uses 'subprocess.Popen' to run an external program and this can fail.
>> In this case, the dict should just be omitted from 'data'.
>>
>> I can have 'get_job_efficiency_dict' return 'None' and then run
>>
>>    filtered_data = list(filter(None, data))
>>
>> but is there a more elegant way?
>
> Just wondering, why don't you return an empty dictionary in case of a
failure?
> In that case your list will be all dictionaries and empty ones will be 
> processed fast enough.

When the list of dictionaries is processed, I would have to check each
element to see if it is empty.  That strikes me as being less efficient than
filtering out the empty dictionaries in one go, although obviously one would
need to benchmark that.

Cheers,

Loris


--
This signature is currently under construction.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From mats at wichmann.us  Fri Aug  5 16:57:41 2022
From: mats at wichmann.us (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 14:57:41 -0600
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <tcipgj$347ur$1@dont-email.me>
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
 <1c043e8f-47c9-153e-84c3-8343a28247db@chagford.com>
 <mailman.200.1659686206.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tcipgj$347ur$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <8d988c61-c229-ff0d-7c0b-c3f7cc4c40b4@wichmann.us>

On 8/5/22 03:56, GB wrote:
> On 05/08/2022 08:56, Frank Millman wrote:
> 
>> BTW, there is an indentation error in your original post - line 5
>> should line up with line 4. 
> 
> As a Python beginner, I find that Python is annoyingly picky about
> indents.? And, the significance of indents is a bit of a minefield for
> beginners.
> 
> For example, in the above code, the indent of the final line very
> significantly affects the results:
> 
> print(var)
> ??? print(var)
> ??????? print(var)
> 
> These are all different.

Yes, very picky.  Python has chosen to use a (consistent) indent to
indicate a code block, as opposed to using extra syntactical characters
(curly braces, etc.) to delimit blocks.  It's just a choice that was
made about how to instruct the interpreter what you mean, and there's
some argument that it improves readability later, when you go look at
your code months later, or someone else's code: the requirement to have
consistent indents means your brain can trust that the way the code is
indented is meaningful, rather than arbitrary. Also note that most
(all?) code formatters for other languages will enforce consistent
indenting too, In Python it just happens to be part of the language
rather than optional. So: you need to be clear about what you mean by
indenting correctly.   All good code editors that understand Python
understand about this and will help you as much as they can.

From drsalists at gmail.com  Fri Aug  5 18:50:49 2022
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 15:50:49 -0700
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_pHikuuYDJmVTdNrxwEeG5H3c5X_8YOmziqhTiU03SB_Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 12:35 AM <ojomooluwatolami675 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello, I?m new to learning python and I stumbled upon a question nested
> loops. This is the question below. Can you please how they arrived at 9 as
> the answer. Thanks
>
> var = 0
> for i in range(3):
>   for j in range(-2,-7,-2):
>     var += 1
>      print(var)
>

A debugger is useful for more than debugging; it can also help give an
intuition for control flow.  If you single step through this snippet with a
debugger, you'll probably see what's happening.

Of if you don't have (or want) a debugger, you could change it to:

var = 0
for i in range(3):
  print('i is', i)
  for j in range(-2,-7,-2):
    print('j is', j)
    var += 1
    print(var)

And note that 3 times 3 is 9.

From PythonList at DancesWithMice.info  Fri Aug  5 19:15:26 2022
From: PythonList at DancesWithMice.info (dn)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 11:15:26 +1200
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <CAGGBd_pHikuuYDJmVTdNrxwEeG5H3c5X_8YOmziqhTiU03SB_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
 <CAGGBd_pHikuuYDJmVTdNrxwEeG5H3c5X_8YOmziqhTiU03SB_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <97365836-784a-f9f1-00f0-1d4420340d11@DancesWithMice.info>

On 06/08/2022 10.50, Dan Stromberg wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 12:35 AM <ojomooluwatolami675 at gmail.com> wrote:
...

> Of if you don't have (or want) a debugger, you could change it to:
> 
> var = 0
> for i in range(3):
>   print('i is', i)
>   for j in range(-2,-7,-2):
>     print('j is', j)
>     var += 1
>     print(var)
> 
> And note that 3 times 3 is 9.

Combining the above advice and illustration, with several more recent
comments about indentation revealing structure, should the above be
amended to:

indent = "    "  # your choice of how many spaces/tabs
...
  print( "i is", i )
...
    print( indent + "j is", j )
...
      print( indent + indent, var )  # add sep="" if pernickety
...

Thus, the output matches the code and each complements the other's view
of structure!

-- 
Regards,
=dn

From avi.e.gross at gmail.com  Fri Aug  5 19:41:59 2022
From: avi.e.gross at gmail.com (avi.e.gross at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 19:41:59 -0400
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <tcipgj$347ur$1@dont-email.me>
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
 <1c043e8f-47c9-153e-84c3-8343a28247db@chagford.com>
 <mailman.200.1659686206.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tcipgj$347ur$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <01f101d8a924$f4f71560$dee54020$@gmail.com>

I wonder if someone is pulling our leg as they are sending from an invalid
email address of "GB <NOTsomeone at microsoft.invalid>" which is a bit sick.

I have trouble imagining ANYONE learning a language like python without
rapidly being told that python uses indentation instead of various ways to
detect when a body of text is considered a single composite item.

And code like their example is also nonsense:

print(var)
     print(var)
         print(var)

On my version of python, and likely most or all, it generates an error
message like: 

	SyntaxError: multiple statements found while compiling a single
statement

The way I see it, it is beyond irrelevant when learning a language what YOU
(the learner) think. The rules are the rules. If you do not like them and do
not have to use that language, go find another you might like.

If you want to stay with the language, you not only adjust but welcome new
ways of doing things. I have seen people stuck on code like this:

a, b, c = 5,4,3

others get nauseous at something like:

a, b, _ = some_func(args)

But the whole point is learning to appreciate what someone decided might
make the language more useful, easier to program in, avoid errors, be more
flexible, or maybe more efficient, or whatever design criteria apply. Only
once you understand more things like that, can you be in a position to
critique it as horrible.

So, speaking for myself, the poster is assumed, for now, to not be worth
responding to. I doubt they are a true beginner or at least that they have
spent any serious time learning.


-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list <python-list-bounces+avi.e.gross=gmail.com at python.org> On
Behalf Of GB
Sent: Friday, August 5, 2022 5:57 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Trying to understand nested loops

On 05/08/2022 08:56, Frank Millman wrote:

> BTW, there is an indentation error in your original post - line 5 
> should line up with line 4.

As a Python beginner, I find that Python is annoyingly picky about indents.
And, the significance of indents is a bit of a minefield for beginners.

For example, in the above code, the indent of the final line very
significantly affects the results:

print(var)
     print(var)
         print(var)

These are all different.



--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From drsalists at gmail.com  Fri Aug  5 19:55:18 2022
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 16:55:18 -0700
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <tcipgj$347ur$1@dont-email.me>
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
 <1c043e8f-47c9-153e-84c3-8343a28247db@chagford.com>
 <mailman.200.1659686206.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tcipgj$347ur$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_p5g0FbvCFABX_5GBBGeaRUUcn6KCofiYLqgvTbGxk6vg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 12:30 PM GB <NOTsomeone at microsoft.invalid> wrote:

> On 05/08/2022 08:56, Frank Millman wrote:
>
> > BTW, there is an indentation error in your original post - line 5 should
> > line up with line 4.
>
> As a Python beginner, I find that Python is annoyingly picky about
> indents.  And, the significance of indents is a bit of a minefield for
> beginners.
>
No, you should indent properly anyway. Python just reduces the number of
things to worry about.

Please see:
https://stromberg.dnsalias.org/~strombrg/significant-whitespace.html
...for the usual.

From PythonList at DancesWithMice.info  Fri Aug  5 19:57:30 2022
From: PythonList at DancesWithMice.info (dn)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 11:57:30 +1200
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <01f101d8a924$f4f71560$dee54020$@gmail.com>
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
 <1c043e8f-47c9-153e-84c3-8343a28247db@chagford.com>
 <mailman.200.1659686206.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tcipgj$347ur$1@dont-email.me> <01f101d8a924$f4f71560$dee54020$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e5d45e7f-9213-dc31-3bd9-cc6f78a879c3@DancesWithMice.info>

On 06/08/2022 11.41, avi.e.gross at gmail.com wrote:
> I wonder if someone is pulling our leg as they are sending from an invalid
> email address of "GB <NOTsomeone at microsoft.invalid>" which is a bit sick.

There are a number of folk who use evidently false email addresses - the
OP's had me amused.

Such 'hiding' is a matter for the List-Admins (thanks for all the work
exerted on our behalf!) and how it fits with the Code-of-Conduct.


> I have trouble imagining ANYONE learning a language like python without
> rapidly being told that python uses indentation instead of various ways to
> detect when a body of text is considered a single composite item.
> 
> And code like their example is also nonsense:
> 
> print(var)
>      print(var)
>          print(var)

Another way to look at that post, and what the author may have meant; is
that the final print(), incorrectly indented in the OP, could have been
written with three different indentations, and thus have three very
different effects (cf that they are all to be used, as-is).
-- 
Regards,
=dn

From avi.e.gross at gmail.com  Fri Aug  5 20:28:31 2022
From: avi.e.gross at gmail.com (avi.e.gross at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 20:28:31 -0400
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <e5d45e7f-9213-dc31-3bd9-cc6f78a879c3@DancesWithMice.info>
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
 <1c043e8f-47c9-153e-84c3-8343a28247db@chagford.com>
 <mailman.200.1659686206.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tcipgj$347ur$1@dont-email.me> <01f101d8a924$f4f71560$dee54020$@gmail.com>
 <e5d45e7f-9213-dc31-3bd9-cc6f78a879c3@DancesWithMice.info>
Message-ID: <01f901d8a92b$750bb8e0$5f232aa0$@gmail.com>

I had considered that, Dave. Albeit others did at least put in some
three-dot markers to show there was other code between the three lines
shown.

But the same silly argument they used applies elsewhere. Consider nested
calls like:

Delta(Gamma(Beta(Alpha)))

Now say one of those functions takes an argument like 666.

The following lines all mean different things, especially if all the above
functions can take an optional argument of 666.

Delta(Gamma(Beta(Alpha,666)))
Delta(Gamma(Beta(Alpha),666))
Delta(Gamma(Beta(Alpha)),666)
Delta(666,Gamma(Beta(Alpha)))
Delta(Gamma(666,Beta(Alpha)))
Delta(Gamma(Beta(666,Alpha)))

And of course any such function calls may be in contexts such as this:

Result, const = Delta(Gamma(Beta(Alpha))),666

My point is that whether using indentation or parentheses or braces or other
grouping techniques, exact placement according to the rules must apply. I
often write code where I use indentation to remind ME which argument goes
with which, such as this (more often not in python where indentation has no
real meaning and things can span multiple lines.

This:

Delta(Gamma(666,Beta(Alpha)))

May make more sense to write like this:

Delta(Gamma(666,
            Beta(Alpha)))

Or in a more general case where each of the functions may take multiple
arguments before and/or after nested, calls, I might have a long convoluted
code where all arguments to a particular function are vertically aligned and
it is easier to spot if you left one out or put it in the wrong place.

It becomes a somewhat childish argument when writing CODE in any language
with rules, to suggest that it should ignore your mistakes and assume you
meant to have a comma here or parentheses there and similarly, that the
indentation level should govern which block your print statement is part of.


Hence my suggestion that perhaps someone is in a sense punking us

Of course it is perfectly possible the software this person is using makes
that deliberately unworkable email address as I have seen this elsewhere. It
just raises my suspicion level when I have seen other posts on various
mailing lists ranging from someone with pretty much no knowledge about a
topic but wanting someone to do their homework, to someone who throws in
something (perhaps incendiary) to watch others waste their time trying to
deal with their best guesses of what was wanted, to one guy who seems to
write articles or books and wants to see what people think but then does not
participate or tell us that is what they wanted.

My point was not to tell anyone else here what to do, simply that I will be
cautious with such posters as I have way better things to do!

Nested loops are indeed a hard topic for many. But when explained it no
longer seems reasonable to ask why print statements at different levels of
nesting differ.

Not to me, at least.

- Avi (for those like someone on another language/group who did not know how
to address me in overall too-polite format and referred to me as "Dear
" followed by more lines.

-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list <python-list-bounces+avi.e.gross=gmail.com at python.org> On
Behalf Of dn
Sent: Friday, August 5, 2022 7:58 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Trying to understand nested loops

On 06/08/2022 11.41, avi.e.gross at gmail.com wrote:
> I wonder if someone is pulling our leg as they are sending from an 
> invalid email address of "GB <NOTsomeone at microsoft.invalid>" which is a
bit sick.

There are a number of folk who use evidently false email addresses - the
OP's had me amused.

Such 'hiding' is a matter for the List-Admins (thanks for all the work
exerted on our behalf!) and how it fits with the Code-of-Conduct.


> I have trouble imagining ANYONE learning a language like python 
> without rapidly being told that python uses indentation instead of 
> various ways to detect when a body of text is considered a single
composite item.
> 
> And code like their example is also nonsense:
> 
> print(var)
>      print(var)
>          print(var)

Another way to look at that post, and what the author may have meant; is
that the final print(), incorrectly indented in the OP, could have been
written with three different indentations, and thus have three very
different effects (cf that they are all to be used, as-is).
--
Regards,
=dn
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From mgogala at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  5 20:29:19 2022
From: mgogala at yahoo.com (Mladen Gogala)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 00:29:19 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
 <mailman.198.1659684892.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tckckv$at8$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On Fri, 5 Aug 2022 08:34:45 +0100, ojomooluwatolami675 wrote:

> Hello, I?m new to learning python and I stumbled upon a question nested
> loops. This is the question below. Can you please how they arrived at 9
> as the answer. Thanks
> 
> var = 0 for i in range(3):
>   for j in range(-2,-7,-2):
>     var += 1
>      print(var)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone

That's simple. Number 9 itself is equal to 3*3. Inner loop executes 3 
times for each of the 3 executions of the outer loop.
PS:
The reply is intentionally written in such a way that it cannot be used as 
an answer to a homework question. You'll have to work out the details 
yourself.

-- 
Mladen Gogala
Database Consultant
https://dbwhisperer.wordpress.com

From drsalists at gmail.com  Fri Aug  5 23:53:03 2022
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 20:53:03 -0700
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <62ed7557.050a0220.1d68f.2d24@mx.google.com>
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
 <1c043e8f-47c9-153e-84c3-8343a28247db@chagford.com>
 <mailman.200.1659686206.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tcipgj$347ur$1@dont-email.me> <62ed7557.050a0220.1d68f.2d24@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_qiuEqy8-rpGzN05ZfpspCQ+XVmvim4=Hso8Ti_zVAmxA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 12:54 PM Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com>
wrote:

> In C, this doesn't do what it looks like it's supposed to do.
>
>    if (foo)
>      do_this();
>      and_this();
>    then_do_this();
>
It's been quite a while since I used C, but with the right compiler
flag(s), I think this may be a thing of the past when compiling with gcc:
https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2016/02/26/gcc-6-wmisleading-indentation-vs-goto-fail

From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Aug  6 00:01:13 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 14:01:13 +1000
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <CAGGBd_qiuEqy8-rpGzN05ZfpspCQ+XVmvim4=Hso8Ti_zVAmxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
 <1c043e8f-47c9-153e-84c3-8343a28247db@chagford.com>
 <mailman.200.1659686206.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tcipgj$347ur$1@dont-email.me> <62ed7557.050a0220.1d68f.2d24@mx.google.com>
 <CAGGBd_qiuEqy8-rpGzN05ZfpspCQ+XVmvim4=Hso8Ti_zVAmxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr0Qd0Aj-3HF65-WoNFb5O9D7F05oC0Me8ORb0RxyqPng@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 6 Aug 2022 at 13:54, Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 12:54 PM Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > In C, this doesn't do what it looks like it's supposed to do.
> >
> >    if (foo)
> >      do_this();
> >      and_this();
> >    then_do_this();
> >
> It's been quite a while since I used C, but with the right compiler
> flag(s), I think this may be a thing of the past when compiling with gcc:
> https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2016/02/26/gcc-6-wmisleading-indentation-vs-goto-fail

Ah yes, because compiler warnings are always viewed and acted upon.

Have you ever watched the compilation of a large open-source project,
done using the project's own build system and therefore the team's
preferred warning settings? It's normal to have such a spew of
warnings that you can't find anything interesting, or to have new
warnings in new versions of GCC be utterly useless for the same
reason.

ChrisA

From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Sat Aug  6 08:06:40 2022
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 08:06:40 -0400
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmr0Qd0Aj-3HF65-WoNFb5O9D7F05oC0Me8ORb0RxyqPng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
 <1c043e8f-47c9-153e-84c3-8343a28247db@chagford.com>
 <mailman.200.1659686206.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tcipgj$347ur$1@dont-email.me> <62ed7557.050a0220.1d68f.2d24@mx.google.com>
 <CAGGBd_qiuEqy8-rpGzN05ZfpspCQ+XVmvim4=Hso8Ti_zVAmxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmr0Qd0Aj-3HF65-WoNFb5O9D7F05oC0Me8ORb0RxyqPng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7bb4f809-d0f4-c30e-a2cb-516ab8a961fa@Damon-Family.org>

On 8/6/22 12:01 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Aug 2022 at 13:54, Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 12:54 PM Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In C, this doesn't do what it looks like it's supposed to do.
>>>
>>>     if (foo)
>>>       do_this();
>>>       and_this();
>>>     then_do_this();
>>>
>> It's been quite a while since I used C, but with the right compiler
>> flag(s), I think this may be a thing of the past when compiling with gcc:
>> https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2016/02/26/gcc-6-wmisleading-indentation-vs-goto-fail
> Ah yes, because compiler warnings are always viewed and acted upon.
>
> Have you ever watched the compilation of a large open-source project,
> done using the project's own build system and therefore the team's
> preferred warning settings? It's normal to have such a spew of
> warnings that you can't find anything interesting, or to have new
> warnings in new versions of GCC be utterly useless for the same
> reason.
>
> ChrisA

You make it so you HAVE to fix the warning by adding the option to make 
warnings into errors.

This does mean that you need to fix all the warnings that don't actually 
mean anything,

Good code shouldn't generate many warnings, either you have warnings 
enabled that you don't care about, or your code is doing things you have 
told the complier you shouldn't do.

-- 
Richard Damon


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Aug  6 08:12:21 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 22:12:21 +1000
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <7bb4f809-d0f4-c30e-a2cb-516ab8a961fa@Damon-Family.org>
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
 <1c043e8f-47c9-153e-84c3-8343a28247db@chagford.com>
 <mailman.200.1659686206.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tcipgj$347ur$1@dont-email.me> <62ed7557.050a0220.1d68f.2d24@mx.google.com>
 <CAGGBd_qiuEqy8-rpGzN05ZfpspCQ+XVmvim4=Hso8Ti_zVAmxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmr0Qd0Aj-3HF65-WoNFb5O9D7F05oC0Me8ORb0RxyqPng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7bb4f809-d0f4-c30e-a2cb-516ab8a961fa@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpv5M=9arLhxwq2AWYvcYdXALCkrKCAwxEBMrF9BywDzw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 6 Aug 2022 at 22:08, Richard Damon <Richard at damon-family.org> wrote:
>
> On 8/6/22 12:01 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > On Sat, 6 Aug 2022 at 13:54, Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 12:54 PM Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In C, this doesn't do what it looks like it's supposed to do.
> >>>
> >>>     if (foo)
> >>>       do_this();
> >>>       and_this();
> >>>     then_do_this();
> >>>
> >> It's been quite a while since I used C, but with the right compiler
> >> flag(s), I think this may be a thing of the past when compiling with gcc:
> >> https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2016/02/26/gcc-6-wmisleading-indentation-vs-goto-fail
> > Ah yes, because compiler warnings are always viewed and acted upon.
> >
> > Have you ever watched the compilation of a large open-source project,
> > done using the project's own build system and therefore the team's
> > preferred warning settings? It's normal to have such a spew of
> > warnings that you can't find anything interesting, or to have new
> > warnings in new versions of GCC be utterly useless for the same
> > reason.
> >
> > ChrisA
>
> You make it so you HAVE to fix the warning by adding the option to make
> warnings into errors.
>
> This does mean that you need to fix all the warnings that don't actually
> mean anything,
>
> Good code shouldn't generate many warnings, either you have warnings
> enabled that you don't care about, or your code is doing things you have
> told the complier you shouldn't do.
>

I say again: have you ever watched the compilation of a large
open-source project? You cannot turn warnings into errors, because
there are ALWAYS warnings. Maybe, once upon a time, the policy was to
ensure that there were no warnings on any major compiler; but times
change, compilers add new warnings, new compilers join the club, and
it becomes practically impossible to prevent warnings. Which, in turn,
makes all warnings basically meaningless.

Hmm. I don't think I've ever compiled gcc from source. Maybe I should
do that, just to see whether gcc itself compiles with no warnings
under gcc.

ChrisA

From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Sat Aug  6 08:38:21 2022
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 08:38:21 -0400
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpv5M=9arLhxwq2AWYvcYdXALCkrKCAwxEBMrF9BywDzw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
 <1c043e8f-47c9-153e-84c3-8343a28247db@chagford.com>
 <mailman.200.1659686206.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tcipgj$347ur$1@dont-email.me> <62ed7557.050a0220.1d68f.2d24@mx.google.com>
 <CAGGBd_qiuEqy8-rpGzN05ZfpspCQ+XVmvim4=Hso8Ti_zVAmxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmr0Qd0Aj-3HF65-WoNFb5O9D7F05oC0Me8ORb0RxyqPng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7bb4f809-d0f4-c30e-a2cb-516ab8a961fa@Damon-Family.org>
 <CAPTjJmpv5M=9arLhxwq2AWYvcYdXALCkrKCAwxEBMrF9BywDzw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a4e4f187-eeb9-5746-c87a-ea116f61680d@Damon-Family.org>

On 8/6/22 8:12 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Aug 2022 at 22:08, Richard Damon <Richard at damon-family.org> wrote:
>> On 8/6/22 12:01 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> On Sat, 6 Aug 2022 at 13:54, Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 12:54 PM Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In C, this doesn't do what it looks like it's supposed to do.
>>>>>
>>>>>      if (foo)
>>>>>        do_this();
>>>>>        and_this();
>>>>>      then_do_this();
>>>>>
>>>> It's been quite a while since I used C, but with the right compiler
>>>> flag(s), I think this may be a thing of the past when compiling with gcc:
>>>> https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2016/02/26/gcc-6-wmisleading-indentation-vs-goto-fail
>>> Ah yes, because compiler warnings are always viewed and acted upon.
>>>
>>> Have you ever watched the compilation of a large open-source project,
>>> done using the project's own build system and therefore the team's
>>> preferred warning settings? It's normal to have such a spew of
>>> warnings that you can't find anything interesting, or to have new
>>> warnings in new versions of GCC be utterly useless for the same
>>> reason.
>>>
>>> ChrisA
>> You make it so you HAVE to fix the warning by adding the option to make
>> warnings into errors.
>>
>> This does mean that you need to fix all the warnings that don't actually
>> mean anything,
>>
>> Good code shouldn't generate many warnings, either you have warnings
>> enabled that you don't care about, or your code is doing things you have
>> told the complier you shouldn't do.
>>
> I say again: have you ever watched the compilation of a large
> open-source project? You cannot turn warnings into errors, because
> there are ALWAYS warnings. Maybe, once upon a time, the policy was to
> ensure that there were no warnings on any major compiler; but times
> change, compilers add new warnings, new compilers join the club, and
> it becomes practically impossible to prevent warnings. Which, in turn,
> makes all warnings basically meaningless.
>
> Hmm. I don't think I've ever compiled gcc from source. Maybe I should
> do that, just to see whether gcc itself compiles with no warnings
> under gcc.
>
> ChrisA

And for any project, that is a choice THEY made.

For projects where code quality is actually a defined metric, there is 
normally a specified warning level (for a specified set of compilers and 
versions) that the code needs to compile at least nearly clean at.

Yes, you can get that ton of warnings when at a higher warning level, 
but that is why you specify the warning level to use, and put the 
specific mitigations/suppressions for the few cases where the code is 
correct, but generates that warning.

Yes, you can get a lot of warnings with another compiler, but that is 
because you aren't running at the correct warning level for that 
compiler, which is why the set of compilers that you are "warning free" 
on is specified. When you add a new compiler, it may first not be 
warning free until you make the effort (if you ever do) to make it 
warning free for that.

Major open source projects will have a "toll gate" on the official 
repository that checks that additions keep the code to the standard it 
has established,

-- 
Richard Damon


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Aug  6 08:46:27 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 22:46:27 +1000
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <a4e4f187-eeb9-5746-c87a-ea116f61680d@Damon-Family.org>
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
 <1c043e8f-47c9-153e-84c3-8343a28247db@chagford.com>
 <mailman.200.1659686206.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tcipgj$347ur$1@dont-email.me> <62ed7557.050a0220.1d68f.2d24@mx.google.com>
 <CAGGBd_qiuEqy8-rpGzN05ZfpspCQ+XVmvim4=Hso8Ti_zVAmxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmr0Qd0Aj-3HF65-WoNFb5O9D7F05oC0Me8ORb0RxyqPng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7bb4f809-d0f4-c30e-a2cb-516ab8a961fa@Damon-Family.org>
 <CAPTjJmpv5M=9arLhxwq2AWYvcYdXALCkrKCAwxEBMrF9BywDzw@mail.gmail.com>
 <a4e4f187-eeb9-5746-c87a-ea116f61680d@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmobymAscWRMza_2afi7L-W7O4o4Zpx6=oafH14mM8WUZQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 6 Aug 2022 at 22:39, Richard Damon <Richard at damon-family.org> wrote:
>
> On 8/6/22 8:12 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > On Sat, 6 Aug 2022 at 22:08, Richard Damon <Richard at damon-family.org> wrote:
> >> On 8/6/22 12:01 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 6 Aug 2022 at 13:54, Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 12:54 PM Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> In C, this doesn't do what it looks like it's supposed to do.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      if (foo)
> >>>>>        do_this();
> >>>>>        and_this();
> >>>>>      then_do_this();
> >>>>>
> >>>> It's been quite a while since I used C, but with the right compiler
> >>>> flag(s), I think this may be a thing of the past when compiling with gcc:
> >>>> https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2016/02/26/gcc-6-wmisleading-indentation-vs-goto-fail
> >>> Ah yes, because compiler warnings are always viewed and acted upon.
> >>>
> >>> Have you ever watched the compilation of a large open-source project,
> >>> done using the project's own build system and therefore the team's
> >>> preferred warning settings? It's normal to have such a spew of
> >>> warnings that you can't find anything interesting, or to have new
> >>> warnings in new versions of GCC be utterly useless for the same
> >>> reason.
> >>>
> >>> ChrisA
> >> You make it so you HAVE to fix the warning by adding the option to make
> >> warnings into errors.
> >>
> >> This does mean that you need to fix all the warnings that don't actually
> >> mean anything,
> >>
> >> Good code shouldn't generate many warnings, either you have warnings
> >> enabled that you don't care about, or your code is doing things you have
> >> told the complier you shouldn't do.
> >>
> > I say again: have you ever watched the compilation of a large
> > open-source project? You cannot turn warnings into errors, because
> > there are ALWAYS warnings. Maybe, once upon a time, the policy was to
> > ensure that there were no warnings on any major compiler; but times
> > change, compilers add new warnings, new compilers join the club, and
> > it becomes practically impossible to prevent warnings. Which, in turn,
> > makes all warnings basically meaningless.
> >
> > Hmm. I don't think I've ever compiled gcc from source. Maybe I should
> > do that, just to see whether gcc itself compiles with no warnings
> > under gcc.
> >
> > ChrisA
>
> And for any project, that is a choice THEY made.

Indeed. So you can't really say "good code shouldn't generate many
warnings" unless (a) you're saying that lots of projects are made up
of bad code, or (b) your statement that this is "a thing of the past"
is flat-out false, because it can only be valid if you assume that
everyone has that warning enabled, and preferably set to be an error.

So, for the vast majority of projects out there, indentation errors
are going to continue to go uncaught by C compilers. It's not "a thing
of the past" until most projects use the flag, and preferably, the
flag becomes active by default.

And for the record, I have seen spurious warnings from *that exact
flag* in a large project (an image parsing library). Spurious in that
the code was actually correct, despite the compiler warning about it.

ChrisA

From avi.e.gross at gmail.com  Sat Aug  6 12:37:26 2022
From: avi.e.gross at gmail.com (avi.e.gross at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 12:37:26 -0400
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpv5M=9arLhxwq2AWYvcYdXALCkrKCAwxEBMrF9BywDzw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
 <1c043e8f-47c9-153e-84c3-8343a28247db@chagford.com>
 <mailman.200.1659686206.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tcipgj$347ur$1@dont-email.me> <62ed7557.050a0220.1d68f.2d24@mx.google.com>
 <CAGGBd_qiuEqy8-rpGzN05ZfpspCQ+XVmvim4=Hso8Ti_zVAmxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmr0Qd0Aj-3HF65-WoNFb5O9D7F05oC0Me8ORb0RxyqPng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7bb4f809-d0f4-c30e-a2cb-516ab8a961fa@Damon-Family.org>
 <CAPTjJmpv5M=9arLhxwq2AWYvcYdXALCkrKCAwxEBMrF9BywDzw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007b01d8a9b2$d0cf9ed0$726edc70$@gmail.com>

This reminds me a bit of how routine spelling checkers and often especially
grammar checkers, generate so many suggestions about mistakes as to become
ignored. If you are writing using lots of names and jargon that keep getting
flagged as errors and they are spelled or used exactly as you want, then it
gets to be too annoying and you turn off the feature. Yes, you can sometimes
silence some things in a spell checker that allows you to add words to a
custom dictionary but for now, that dictionary is not known to every
application that checks your spelling.

That can be the nature of the beast. If your compiler decides to warn you
every time you do a division that you might be dividing by zero because you
do not perform the test right before that, then you end up with code that
tests it AGAIN after having arranged for the value to never be zero in the
first place, then test it again when you divide something else by it, ...

I am sure some programming language has some kind of pragma that lets you
whisper to the compiler that this variable at this time is guaranteed not to
be zero, or that the region is in a try/catch zone which will intercept and
fix the results of a divide by zero error.

Just an example. And as you say, new or improved compilers can be made to be
ever more picky about trying to find possible anomalies.

Things are useful when they are somewhat manageable. If a compiler things it
detects 372 places in your code where the same thing needs to be mentioned,
such as reserving space for an object without simultaneously filling it with
some contents, then it would be nice if instead of printing ALL of them, it
consolidated it into one warning and say you can click on something to see
the 372 instances. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list <python-list-bounces+avi.e.gross=gmail.com at python.org> On
Behalf Of Chris Angelico
Sent: Saturday, August 6, 2022 8:12 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Trying to understand nested loops

On Sat, 6 Aug 2022 at 22:08, Richard Damon <Richard at damon-family.org> wrote:
>
> On 8/6/22 12:01 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > On Sat, 6 Aug 2022 at 13:54, Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 12:54 PM Grant Edwards 
> >> <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In C, this doesn't do what it looks like it's supposed to do.
> >>>
> >>>     if (foo)
> >>>       do_this();
> >>>       and_this();
> >>>     then_do_this();
> >>>
> >> It's been quite a while since I used C, but with the right compiler 
> >> flag(s), I think this may be a thing of the past when compiling with
gcc:
> >> https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2016/02/26/gcc-6-wmisleading-ind
> >> entation-vs-goto-fail
> > Ah yes, because compiler warnings are always viewed and acted upon.
> >
> > Have you ever watched the compilation of a large open-source 
> > project, done using the project's own build system and therefore the 
> > team's preferred warning settings? It's normal to have such a spew 
> > of warnings that you can't find anything interesting, or to have new 
> > warnings in new versions of GCC be utterly useless for the same 
> > reason.
> >
> > ChrisA
>
> You make it so you HAVE to fix the warning by adding the option to 
> make warnings into errors.
>
> This does mean that you need to fix all the warnings that don't 
> actually mean anything,
>
> Good code shouldn't generate many warnings, either you have warnings 
> enabled that you don't care about, or your code is doing things you 
> have told the complier you shouldn't do.
>

I say again: have you ever watched the compilation of a large open-source
project? You cannot turn warnings into errors, because there are ALWAYS
warnings. Maybe, once upon a time, the policy was to ensure that there were
no warnings on any major compiler; but times change, compilers add new
warnings, new compilers join the club, and it becomes practically impossible
to prevent warnings. Which, in turn, makes all warnings basically
meaningless.

Hmm. I don't think I've ever compiled gcc from source. Maybe I should do
that, just to see whether gcc itself compiles with no warnings under gcc.

ChrisA
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From skip.montanaro at gmail.com  Sun Aug  7 17:55:13 2022
From: skip.montanaro at gmail.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2022 16:55:13 -0500
Subject: Python gets a mention on Reddit - in r/tifu
Message-ID: <CANc-5UwtuZ0Sv_YbZUUchsyN5Fc-iCX=aznrTAgRM1XneV1JuA@mail.gmail.com>

Not exactly where I expected to see Python mentioned on Reddit, but I found
this amusing (yes, despite the subreddit, it should be safe for work):

https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/wibmkh/tifu_by_teaching_my_13yo_brother_python/

Just a little diversion for a Sunday afternoon. I was particularly amused,
as my son is in dev ops, writes Python from time-to-time, and my grandson
is 13. I could definitely see the pattern in the story transferring over to
Chris and Carmine.

Skip

From nhlanhlah198506 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  7 12:59:36 2022
From: nhlanhlah198506 at gmail.com (nhlanhlah198506)
Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2022 18:59:36 +0200
Subject: Information about Dying kernel
Message-ID: <62efef7a.050a0220.220a4.5349@mx.google.com>

Greetings?What can I do if my computer said my kernels has died?Thank you?Sent from my Galaxy

From pfeiffer at cs.nmsu.edu  Sun Aug  7 16:53:51 2022
From: pfeiffer at cs.nmsu.edu (Joe Pfeiffer)
Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2022 14:53:51 -0600
Subject: SyntaxError: multiple statements found while compiling a single
 statement
References: <4c024831-aa68-4468-93f6-1cb37f70e7den@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1bczdbyduo.fsf@pfeifferfamily.net>

Sohail Ahmad <sohailahmad2594 at gmail.com> writes:

> kindly please help me about issues
>  SyntaxError: multiple statements found while compiling a single statement how to solve this issues

Please post the code that got the error.  Preferably several lines
before the actual error, and the line with the error itself.

From pbryan at anode.ca  Sun Aug  7 21:38:20 2022
From: pbryan at anode.ca (Paul Bryan)
Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2022 18:38:20 -0700
Subject: Information about Dying kernel
In-Reply-To: <62efef7a.050a0220.220a4.5349@mx.google.com>
References: <62efef7a.050a0220.220a4.5349@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <df679a074f5ffe319952ccbb1d7289baa00e7e04.camel@anode.ca>

Have you tried turning it off and back on again?

On Sun, 2022-08-07 at 18:59 +0200, nhlanhlah198506 wrote:
> Greetings?What can I do if my computer said my kernels has died?Thank
> you?Sent from my Galaxy


From pablogsal at gmail.com  Mon Aug  8 12:59:52 2022
From: pablogsal at gmail.com (Pablo Galindo Salgado)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 17:59:52 +0100
Subject: [RELEASE] Python 3.11 release candidate 1 (3.11.0rc1) is available
Message-ID: <CAFjbc8GUSxH9Tvt4Tgw2fBhhB=0aNSxYX9P6G7MrTbYOwxpkmw@mail.gmail.com>

Python 3.11.0 is almost ready. This release, 3.11.0rc1, is the penultimate
release preview. You can get it here:

## This is the first release candidate of Python 3.11

https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-3110rc1/

This release, **3.11.0rc1**, is the penultimate release preview.  Entering
the release candidate phase, only reviewed code changes which are clear bug
fixes are allowed between this release candidate and the final release. The
second candidate and the last planned release preview is currently planned
for Monday, 2022-09-05 while the official release is planned for Monday,
2022-10-03.

There will be no ABI changes from this point forward in the 3.11 series and
the goal is that there will be as few code changes as possible.

## Call to action

#### Core developers: all eyes on the docs now

* Are all your changes properly documented?
* Did you notice other changes you know of to have insufficient
documentation?

#### Community members

We strongly encourage maintainers of third-party Python projects to prepare
their projects for 3.11 compatibilities during this phase. As always,
report any issues to [the Python bug tracker ](https://github.com/issues).

Please keep in mind that this is a preview release and its use is **not**
recommended for production environments.

# Major new features of the 3.11 series, compared to 3.10

Some of the new major new features and changes in Python 3.11 are:

## General changes

* [PEP 657](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0657/) -- Include
Fine-Grained Error Locations in Tracebacks
* [PEP 654](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0654/) -- Exception Groups
and `except*`
* [PEP 680](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0680/) -- tomllib: Support
for Parsing TOML in the Standard Library
* [gh-90908](https://github.com/python/cpython/issues/90908) -- Introduce
task groups to asyncio
* [gh-34627](https://github.com/python/cpython/issues/34627/) -- Atomic
grouping (`(?>...)`) and possessive quantifiers (`*+, ++, ?+, {m,n}+`) are
now supported in regular expressions.
* The [Faster CPython Project](https://github.com/faster-cpython/) is
already yielding some exciting results. Python 3.11 is up to 10-60% faster
than Python 3.10. On average, we measured a 1.22x speedup on the standard
benchmark suite. See [Faster CPython](
https://docs.python.org/3.11/whatsnew/3.11.html#faster-cpython) for details.

## Typing and typing language changes

* [PEP 673](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0673/) --  Self Type
* [PEP 646](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0646/) -- Variadic Generics
* [PEP 675](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0675/) -- Arbitrary Literal
String Type
* [PEP 655](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0655/) -- Marking
individual TypedDict items as required or potentially-missing
* [PEP 681](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0681/) -- Data Class
Transforms

<small>(Hey, **fellow core developer,** if a feature you find important is
missing from this list, [let Pablo know](mailto:pablogsal at python.org
).)</small>

The next pre-release of Python 3.11 will be 3.11.0rc2, currently scheduled
for  Monday, 2022-09-05.

# More resources

* [Online Documentation](https://docs.python.org/3.11/)
* [PEP 664](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0664/), 3.11 Release
Schedule
* Report bugs at [
https://github.com/python/cpython/issues](https://github.com/python/cpython/issues)
.
* [Help fund Python and its community](/psf/donations/).

# And now for something completely different

A quark star is a hypothetical type of compact, exotic star, where
extremely high core temperature and pressure have forced nuclear particles
to form quark matter, a continuous state of matter consisting of free
quarks.

Some massive stars collapse to form neutron stars at the end of their life
cycle, as has been both observed and explained theoretically. Under the
extreme temperatures and pressures inside neutron stars, the neutrons are
normally kept apart by degeneracy pressure, stabilizing the star and
hindering further gravitational collapse. However, it is hypothesized that
under even more extreme temperature and pressure, the degeneracy pressure
of the neutrons is overcome, and the neutrons are forced to merge and
dissolve into their constituent quarks, creating an ultra-dense phase of
quark matter based on densely packed quarks. In this state, a new
equilibrium is supposed to emerge, as a new degeneracy pressure between the
quarks, as well as repulsive electromagnetic forces, will occur and hinder
total gravitational collapse.

If these ideas are correct, quark stars might occur, and be observable,
somewhere in the universe. Theoretically, such a scenario is seen as
scientifically plausible, but it has been impossible to prove both
observationally and experimentally because the very extreme conditions
needed for stabilizing quark matter cannot be created in any laboratory nor
observed directly in nature. The stability of quark matter, and hence the
existence of quark stars, is for these reasons among the unsolved problems
in physics.

# We hope you enjoy the new releases!

Thanks to all of the many volunteers who help make Python Development and
these releases possible! Please consider supporting our efforts by
volunteering yourself or through organization contributions to the Python
Software Foundation.

https://www.python.org/psf/

If you have any questions, please reach out to me or another member of the
release team :)

Your friendly release team,

Ned Deily @nad https://discuss.python.org/u/nad
Steve Dower @steve.dower https://discuss.python.org/u/steve.dower
Pablo Galindo Salgado @pablogsal https://discuss.python.org/u/pablogsal

From andrea.croci at gmx.de  Mon Aug  8 06:47:26 2022
From: andrea.croci at gmx.de (Andreas Croci)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 12:47:26 +0200
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
Message-ID: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>

tI would like to write a program, that reads from the network a fixed 
amount of bytes and appends them to a list. This should happen once a 
second.

Another part of the program should take the list, as it has been filled 
so far, every 6 hours or so, and do some computations on the data (a FFT).

Every so often (say once a week) the list should be saved to a file, 
shorthened in the front by so many items, and filled further with the 
data coming fom the network. After the first saving of the whole list, 
only the new part (the data that have come since the last saving) should 
be appended to the file. A timestamp is in the data, so it's easy to say 
what is new and what was already there.

I'm not sure how to do this properly: can I write a part of a program 
that keeps doing its job (appending data to the list once every second) 
while another part computes something on the data of the same list, 
ignoring the new data being written?

Basically the question boils down to wether it is possible to have parts 
of a program (could be functions) that keep doing their job while other 
parts do something else on the same data, and what is the best way to do 
this.

From andrea.croci at gmx.de  Mon Aug  8 07:53:20 2022
From: andrea.croci at gmx.de (Andreas Croci)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 13:53:20 +0200
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <parallelism-20220808121750@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <tcqtfg$1jro$1@gioia.aioe.org>

Thanks for your reply.

On 08.08.22 13:20, Stefan Ram wrote:

>    Yes, but this is difficult. If you ask this question here,
>    you might not be ready for this.

Indeed.

> 
>    I haven't learned it yet myself, but nevertheless tried to
>    write a small example program quickly, which might still
>    contain errors because of my lack of education.
> 
> import threading
> import time
> 
> def write_to_list( list, lock, event ):
>      for i in range( 10 ):
>          lock.acquire()
>          try:
>              list.append( i )
>          finally:
>              lock.release()
>          event.set()
>          time.sleep( 3 )
> 
> def read_from_list( list, lock, event ):
>      while True:
>          event.wait()
>          print( "Waking up." )
>          event.clear()
>          if len( list ):
>              print( "List contains " + str( list[ 0 ]) + "." )
>              lock.acquire()
>              try:
>                  del list[ 0 ]
>              finally:
>                  lock.release()
>          else:
>              print( "List is empty." )
> 
> list = []
> lock = threading.Lock()
> event = threading.Event()
> threading.Thread( target=write_to_list, args=[ list, lock, event ]).start()
> threading.Thread( target=read_from_list, args=[ list, lock, event ]).start()

If I understand some things correctly, a "lock" would be something that, 
as the name says, locks, meaning prevents parts of the program from 
executing on the locked resource until ohter parts have finished doing 
their things and have released the lock. If this is correct, it's not 
exactly what I wanted, because this way "parts of the program" would not 
"keep doing their things, while other parts do other things on the same 
data".

I'm in principle ok with locks, if it must be. What I fear is that the 
lock could last long and prevent the function that writes into the list 
from doing so every second. With an FFT on a list that contains a few 
bytes taken every second over one week time (604.800 samples), I believe 
it's very likely that the FFT function takes longer than a second to return.

Then I would have to import all the data I have missed since the lock 
was aquired, which is doable, but I would like to avoid it if possible.

> 
>    In basketball, first you must learn to dribble and pass,
>    before you can begin to shoot.

Sure.

> 
>    With certain reservations, texts that can be considered
>    to learn Python are:
> 
> "Object-Oriented Programming in Python Documentation" - a PDF file,
> Introduction to Programming Using Python - Y Daniel Liang (2013),
> How to Think Like a Computer Scientist - Peter Wentworth (2012-08-12),
> The Coder's Apprentice - Pieter Spronck (2016-09-21), and
> Python Programming - John Zelle (2009).
> 

Thank you for the list. I an currently taking a Udemy course and at the 
same time reading the tutorials on python.org. I hope I will some day 
come to any of the books you suggest (I'm doing this only in my spare 
time and it will take forever).

From dan at djph.net  Mon Aug  8 07:59:15 2022
From: dan at djph.net (Dan Purgert)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 11:59:15 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
 <1c043e8f-47c9-153e-84c3-8343a28247db@chagford.com>
 <mailman.200.1659686206.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tcipgj$347ur$1@dont-email.me> <01f101d8a924$f4f71560$dee54020$@gmail.com>
 <e5d45e7f-9213-dc31-3bd9-cc6f78a879c3@DancesWithMice.info>
 <mailman.211.1659743861.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrntf1ulp.9eg.dan@djph.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

dn wrote:
> On 06/08/2022 11.41, avi.e.gross at gmail.com wrote:
>> I wonder if someone is pulling our leg as they are sending from an
>> invalid email address of "GB <NOTsomeone at microsoft.invalid>" which is
>> a bit sick.
>
> There are a number of folk who use evidently false email addresses - the
> OP's had me amused.
>
> Such 'hiding' is a matter for the List-Admins (thanks for all the work
> exerted on our behalf!) and how it fits with the Code-of-Conduct.

Invalid sending addresses (email at somewhere.invalid) are a standard
practice in Usenet, to combat bots scraping posts for email addresses
(remember, Usenet predates basically all spam prevention tech).

As there is a gateway between the mailing lists and Usenet, I *imagine*
that the use of said invalid addresses are within the rules -- I mean,
if they weren't, the maintainers wouldn't keep the two lists
connected.


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|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1  E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

From darcy at VybeNetworks.com  Mon Aug  8 09:32:21 2022
From: darcy at VybeNetworks.com (D'Arcy Cain)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 09:32:21 -0400
Subject: Information about Dying kernel
In-Reply-To: <df679a074f5ffe319952ccbb1d7289baa00e7e04.camel@anode.ca>
References: <62efef7a.050a0220.220a4.5349@mx.google.com>
 <df679a074f5ffe319952ccbb1d7289baa00e7e04.camel@anode.ca>
Message-ID: <2a74c2cc-ad25-ec07-ebf6-5f55c56d7b2b@VybeNetworks.com>

On 2022-08-07 21:38, Paul Bryan wrote:
> Have you tried turning it off and back on again?

Thank you, Roy.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain
Vybe Networks Inc.
A unit of Excelsior Solutions Corporation - Propelling Business Forward
http://www.VybeNetworks.com/
IM:darcy at VybeNetworks.com VoIP: sip:darcy at VybeNetworks.com

From NOTsomeone at microsoft.invalid  Mon Aug  8 10:42:09 2022
From: NOTsomeone at microsoft.invalid (GB)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 15:42:09 +0100
Subject: Trying to understand nested loops
In-Reply-To: <slrntf1ulp.9eg.dan@djph.net>
References: <D50821A2-0B73-478B-8898-6858122D27B7@gmail.com>
 <1c043e8f-47c9-153e-84c3-8343a28247db@chagford.com>
 <mailman.200.1659686206.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tcipgj$347ur$1@dont-email.me> <01f101d8a924$f4f71560$dee54020$@gmail.com>
 <e5d45e7f-9213-dc31-3bd9-cc6f78a879c3@DancesWithMice.info>
 <mailman.211.1659743861.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntf1ulp.9eg.dan@djph.net>
Message-ID: <tcr7c0$v325$1@dont-email.me>

On 08/08/2022 12:59, Dan Purgert wrote:
> dn wrote:
>> On 06/08/2022 11.41, avi.e.gross at gmail.com wrote:
>>> I wonder if someone is pulling our leg as they are sending from an
>>> invalid email address of "GB <NOTsomeone at microsoft.invalid>" which is
>>> a bit sick.
> 
>> There are a number of folk who use evidently false email addresses - the
>> OP's had me amused.
> 
>> Such 'hiding' is a matter for the List-Admins (thanks for all the work
>> exerted on our behalf!) and how it fits with the Code-of-Conduct.
> 
> Invalid sending addresses (email at somewhere.invalid) are a standard
> practice in Usenet, to combat bots scraping posts for email addresses
> (remember, Usenet predates basically all spam prevention tech).
> 
> As there is a gateway between the mailing lists and Usenet, I *imagine*
> that the use of said invalid addresses are within the rules -- I mean,
> if they weren't, the maintainers wouldn't keep the two lists
> connected.
> 
> 
 >

The history in my case is as follows:

Years ago, I used Outlook Express, and, for setting up NG access, they 
suggested an example email address: someone at microsoft.com.

I did not want to give my true email address, lest it be 'scraped', so I 
used: NOTsomeone at microsoft.com.  I added the NOT, to avoid misleading 
people.

Later, I was prevailed upon to change com to invalid.

List admins? This particular NG appears to be blessedly free of spam, 
but I hadn't realised it is moderated?



From andrea.croci at gmx.de  Mon Aug  8 13:39:27 2022
From: andrea.croci at gmx.de (Andreas Croci)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 19:39:27 +0200
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <parallelism-20220808121750@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <tcqtfg$1jro$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <d635cf8c-41f2-4d4c-aad9-44057732314en@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <tcrhof$r1q$1@gioia.aioe.org>

Thank you for your reply.

On 08.08.22 14:55, Julio Di Egidio wrote:

> Concurrent programming is quite difficult, plus you better think
> in terms of queues than shared data... 

Do you mean queues in the sense of deque (the data structure)? I ask 
because I can see the advantage there when I try to pop data from the 
front of it, but I don't see the sense of the following statement ("than 
shared data"). I mean, I called my structure a list, but it may well be 
a queue instead. That wouldn't prevent it from being shared in the idea 
I described: one function would still append data to it while the other 
is reading what is there up to a certain point and calculate the FFT of it.

  But, an easier and often
> better option for concurrent data access is use a (relational)
> database, then the appropriate transaction isolation levels
> when reading and/or writing.
> 

That would obviusly save some coding (but would introduce the need to 
code the interaction with the database), but I'm not sure it would speed 
up the thing. Would the RDBMS allow to read a table while something else 
is writing to it? I doubt it and I'm not sure it doesn't flush the cache 
before letting you read, which would include a normally slow disk access.

Andreas

> Julio


From David.Raymond at tomtom.com  Mon Aug  8 14:46:28 2022
From: David.Raymond at tomtom.com (David Raymond)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 18:46:28 +0000
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
In-Reply-To: <tcrhof$r1q$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <parallelism-20220808121750@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <tcqtfg$1jro$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <d635cf8c-41f2-4d4c-aad9-44057732314en@googlegroups.com>
 <tcrhof$r1q$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0701MB2857397C8DFCA9F9EFA75E3587639@HE1PR0701MB2857.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>

>> But, an easier and often
>> better option for concurrent data access is use a (relational)
>> database, then the appropriate transaction isolation levels
>> when reading and/or writing.
>>
>
> That would obviusly save some coding (but would introduce the need to
> code the interaction with the database), but I'm not sure it would speed
> up the thing. Would the RDBMS allow to read a table while something else
> is writing to it? I doubt it and I'm not sure it doesn't flush the cache
> before letting you read, which would include a normally slow disk access.

SQLite for example allows only 1 write transaction at a time, but in WAL mode you can have as many read transactions as you want all going along at the same time as that 1 writer. It also allows you to specify how thorough it is in flushing data to disk, including not forcing a sync to disk at all and just leaving that to the OS to do on its own time.

From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Mon Aug  8 13:56:02 2022
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2022 13:56:02 -0400
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <0fh2fhdquppev7cu2dqh0dsl5dieh970tn@4ax.com>

On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 12:47:26 +0200, Andreas Croci <andrea.croci at gmx.de>
declaimed the following:

>tI would like to write a program, that reads from the network a fixed 
>amount of bytes and appends them to a list. This should happen once a 
>second.
>

	Ignoring leap seconds, there are 86400 seconds in a day -- how many
bytes are you planning to read each second?

	Maybe more important? Is this a constant network connection feeding you
bytes (in which case the bytes available to read will be controlled by the
sender -- which may be sending continuously and building up a back log if
you don't empty the stream. Or are you planning to make a socket
connection, read n-bytes, close socket? 

>Another part of the program should take the list, as it has been filled 
>so far, every 6 hours or so, and do some computations on the data (a FFT).
>

	"6 hours or so"? That leaves one open to all sorts of variable timing.
In either event, a 6 hour interval is more suited to a process started by a
cron job (Linux/Unix) or Task Scheduler (Windows). Having a thread sleep
for 6 hours means no safeguard if the parent process should die at some
point (and if you are keeping the data in an internal list, you lose all
that data too)

>Every so often (say once a week) the list should be saved to a file, 

	This REQUIRES the process to not fail at any point, nor any system
restarts, etc. And (see prior paragraphs) how much data are you
accumulating. In one week you have 604800 "reads". If you are reading 10
bytes each time, that makes 6MB of data you could potentially lose (on most
modern hardware, 6MB is not a memory concern... Even 32-bit OS should be
able to find space for 600MB of data...).

	Much better would be to write the file as you read each chunk. If the
file is configured right, a separate process should be able to do read-only
processing of the file even while the write process is on-going. OR, you
attempt an open/write/close cycle which could be blocked while your FFT is
processing -- you'd have to detect that situation and buffer the read data
until you get a subsequent successful open, at which time you'd write all
the backlog data.

	Or you could even have your FFT process copy the data to the long term
file, while the write process just starts a new file when it finds itself
blocked (and the FFT deletes the file it was reading).

>shorthened in the front by so many items, and filled further with the 
>data coming fom the network. After the first saving of the whole list, 
>only the new part (the data that have come since the last saving) should 
>be appended to the file. A timestamp is in the data, so it's easy to say 
>what is new and what was already there.
>

	Personally, this sounds more suited for something like SQLite3...
Insert new records as the data is read, with timestamps. FFT process
selects records based upon last data ID (that it processed previously) to
end of new data. SQLite3 database IS the long-term storage. Might need a
second table to hold the FFT process "last data ID" so on start up it can
determine where to begin.

>I'm not sure how to do this properly: can I write a part of a program 
>that keeps doing its job (appending data to the list once every second) 
>while another part computes something on the data of the same list, 
>ignoring the new data being written?
>
	Well, if you really want ONE program -- you'll likely be looking at the
Threading module (I don't do "async", and your task doesn't seem suited for
async type call backs -- one thread that does the fetching of data, and a
second that does the FFT processing, which will be sleeping most of the
time).

	But either way, I'd suggest not keeping the data in an internal list;
use some RDBM to keep the long-term data, accumulating it as you fetch it,
and letting the FFT read from the database for its processing.


-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
	wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

From lkrupp at invalid.pssw.com.invalid  Mon Aug  8 14:02:19 2022
From: lkrupp at invalid.pssw.com.invalid (Louis Krupp)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 12:02:19 -0600
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
In-Reply-To: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <LccIK.620009$vAW9.340682@fx10.iad>

On 8/8/2022 4:47 AM, Andreas Croci wrote:
> tI would like to write a program, that reads from the network a fixed 
> amount of bytes and appends them to a list. This should happen once a 
> second.
>
> Another part of the program should take the list, as it has been 
> filled so far, every 6 hours or so, and do some computations on the 
> data (a FFT).
>
> Every so often (say once a week) the list should be saved to a file, 
> shorthened in the front by so many items, and filled further with the 
> data coming fom the network. After the first saving of the whole list, 
> only the new part (the data that have come since the last saving) 
> should be appended to the file. A timestamp is in the data, so it's 
> easy to say what is new and what was already there.
>
> I'm not sure how to do this properly: can I write a part of a program 
> that keeps doing its job (appending data to the list once every 
> second) while another part computes something on the data of the same 
> list, ignoring the new data being written?
>
> Basically the question boils down to wether it is possible to have 
> parts of a program (could be functions) that keep doing their job 
> while other parts do something else on the same data, and what is the 
> best way to do this.

You might be able to do what you need by making the file system work for 
you:

Use numbered files, something like DATA/0001, DATA/0002, etc.

Start by initializing a file number variable to 1 and creating an empty 
file, DATA/0001. The current time will be your start time.

In an infinite loop, just as in Stefan's example:

Read from the network and append to the current data file. This 
shouldn't take long unless the file is on a remote system.

If six hours have gone by (compare the current time to the start time), 
close the current date file, create a thread (see Stefan's example) to 
call your FFT with the name of the current file, increment the file 
number, and open a new empty data file.

If you want to, you can consolidate files every week or so. The Python 
library has functions that will let you get a list files in a directory. 
If you're on a Linux or UNIX system, you can use shell commands to 
append, copy or rename files.

Have fun.

Louis








From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Aug  8 15:06:31 2022
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 15:06:31 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASE] Python 3.11 release candidate 1
 (3.11.0rc1) is available
In-Reply-To: <CAFjbc8GUSxH9Tvt4Tgw2fBhhB=0aNSxYX9P6G7MrTbYOwxpkmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFjbc8GUSxH9Tvt4Tgw2fBhhB=0aNSxYX9P6G7MrTbYOwxpkmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b83a0481-3fef-3d97-e1e1-ef6d7c34bcce@udel.edu>

On 8/8/2022 12:59 PM, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote:
> Python 3.11.0?is almost?ready. This release, 3.11.0rc1, is the 
> penultimate release?preview. You can get it here:
> 
> ## This is the first release candidate of Python 3.11
> 
> https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-3110rc1/ 
> <https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-3110rc1/>
> 
> This release, **3.11.0rc1**, is the penultimate release preview.  
> Entering the release candidate phase, only reviewed code changes which 
> are clear bug fixes are allowed between this release candidate and the 
> final release. The second candidate and the last planned release preview 
> is currently planned for Monday, 2022-09-05 while the official release 
> is planned for Monday, 2022-10-03.
> 
> There will be no ABI changes from this point forward in the 3.11 series 
> and the goal is that there will be as few code changes as possible.

> #### Core developers: all eyes on the docs now
> 
> * Are all your changes properly documented?
> * Did you notice other changes you know of to have insufficient 
> documentation?

Pablo, are you going to unlock 3.11 and revert merges you don't like, or 
keep it locked and merge PRs you think are OK?



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Aug  8 15:18:16 2022
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 20:18:16 +0100
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
In-Reply-To: <parallelism-20220808121750@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <parallelism-20220808121750@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <91ac042d-b3c0-72c8-e396-f1032ec6d7a0@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2022-08-08 12:20, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Andreas Croci <andrea.croci at gmx.de> writes:
>>Basically the question boils down to wether it is possible to have parts 
>>of a program (could be functions) that keep doing their job while other 
>>parts do something else on the same data, and what is the best way to do 
>>this.
> 
>    Yes, but this is difficult. If you ask this question here,
>    you might not be ready for this.
> 
>    I haven't learned it yet myself, but nevertheless tried to
>    write a small example program quickly, which might still
>    contain errors because of my lack of education.
> 
> import threading
> import time
> 
> def write_to_list( list, lock, event ):
>      for i in range( 10 ):
>          lock.acquire()
>          try:
>              list.append( i )
>          finally:
>              lock.release()
>          event.set()
>          time.sleep( 3 )
> 
> def read_from_list( list, lock, event ):
>      while True:
>          event.wait()
>          print( "Waking up." )
>          event.clear()
>          if len( list ):
>              print( "List contains " + str( list[ 0 ]) + "." )
>              lock.acquire()
>              try:
>                  del list[ 0 ]
>              finally:
>                  lock.release()
>          else:
>              print( "List is empty." )
> 
> list = []
> lock = threading.Lock()
> event = threading.Event()
> threading.Thread( target=write_to_list, args=[ list, lock, event ]).start()
> threading.Thread( target=read_from_list, args=[ list, lock, event ]).start()
> 
>    In basketball, first you must learn to dribble and pass,
>    before you can begin to shoot.
> 
>    With certain reservations, texts that can be considered
>    to learn Python are:
> 
> "Object-Oriented Programming in Python Documentation" - a PDF file,
> Introduction to Programming Using Python - Y Daniel Liang (2013),
> How to Think Like a Computer Scientist - Peter Wentworth (2012-08-12),
> The Coder's Apprentice - Pieter Spronck (2016-09-21), and
> Python Programming - John Zelle (2009).
> 
When working with threads, you should use queues, not lists, because 
queues do their own locking and can wait for items to arrive, with a 
timeout, if desired:


import queue
import threading
import time

def write_to_item_queue(item_queue):
     for i in range(10):
         print("Put", i, "in queue.", flush=True)
         item_queue.put(i)
         time.sleep(3)

     # Using None to indicate that there's no more to come.
     item_queue.put(None)

def read_from_item_queue(item_queue):
     while True:
         try:
             item = item_queue.get()
         except item_queue.Empty:
             print("Queue is empty; should've have got here!", flush=True)
         else:
             print("Queue contains " + str(item) + ".", flush=True)

             if item is None:
                 # Using None to indicate that there's no more to come.
                 break

item_queue = queue.Queue()

write_thread = threading.Thread(target=write_to_item_queue, 
args=[item_queue])
write_thread.start()

read_thread = threading.Thread(target=read_from_item_queue, 
args=[item_queue])
read_thread.start()

# Wait for the threads to finish.
write_thread.join()
read_thread.join()

print("Finished.")

From barry at barrys-emacs.org  Mon Aug  8 16:43:13 2022
From: barry at barrys-emacs.org (Barry)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 21:43:13 +0100
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
In-Reply-To: <91ac042d-b3c0-72c8-e396-f1032ec6d7a0@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <91ac042d-b3c0-72c8-e396-f1032ec6d7a0@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <CC8907CA-C9E8-4BC9-9F06-7EE8824054C8@barrys-emacs.org>



> On 8 Aug 2022, at 20:24, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> 
> ?On 2022-08-08 12:20, Stefan Ram wrote:
>> Andreas Croci <andrea.croci at gmx.de> writes:
>>> Basically the question boils down to wether it is possible to have parts of a program (could be functions) that keep doing their job while other parts do something else on the same data, and what is the best way to do this.
>>   Yes, but this is difficult. If you ask this question here,
>>   you might not be ready for this.
>>   I haven't learned it yet myself, but nevertheless tried to
>>   write a small example program quickly, which might still
>>   contain errors because of my lack of education.
>> import threading
>> import time
>> def write_to_list( list, lock, event ):
>>     for i in range( 10 ):
>>         lock.acquire()
>>         try:
>>             list.append( i )
>>         finally:
>>             lock.release()
>>         event.set()
>>         time.sleep( 3 )
>> def read_from_list( list, lock, event ):
>>     while True:
>>         event.wait()
>>         print( "Waking up." )
>>         event.clear()
>>         if len( list ):
>>             print( "List contains " + str( list[ 0 ]) + "." )
>>             lock.acquire()
>>             try:
>>                 del list[ 0 ]
>>             finally:
>>                 lock.release()
>>         else:
>>             print( "List is empty." )
>> list = []
>> lock = threading.Lock()
>> event = threading.Event()
>> threading.Thread( target=write_to_list, args=[ list, lock, event ]).start()
>> threading.Thread( target=read_from_list, args=[ list, lock, event ]).start()
>>   In basketball, first you must learn to dribble and pass,
>>   before you can begin to shoot.
>>   With certain reservations, texts that can be considered
>>   to learn Python are:
>> "Object-Oriented Programming in Python Documentation" - a PDF file,
>> Introduction to Programming Using Python - Y Daniel Liang (2013),
>> How to Think Like a Computer Scientist - Peter Wentworth (2012-08-12),
>> The Coder's Apprentice - Pieter Spronck (2016-09-21), and
>> Python Programming - John Zelle (2009).
> When working with threads, you should use queues, not lists, because queues do their own locking and can wait for items to arrive, with a timeout, if desired:

Lists do not need to be locked in python because of the GIL.
However you need locks to synchronise between threads.
And as you say a queue has all that locking built in.

Barry

> 
> 
> import queue
> import threading
> import time
> 
> def write_to_item_queue(item_queue):
>    for i in range(10):
>        print("Put", i, "in queue.", flush=True)
>        item_queue.put(i)
>        time.sleep(3)
> 
>    # Using None to indicate that there's no more to come.
>    item_queue.put(None)
> 
> def read_from_item_queue(item_queue):
>    while True:
>        try:
>            item = item_queue.get()
>        except item_queue.Empty:
>            print("Queue is empty; should've have got here!", flush=True)
>        else:
>            print("Queue contains " + str(item) + ".", flush=True)
> 
>            if item is None:
>                # Using None to indicate that there's no more to come.
>                break
> 
> item_queue = queue.Queue()
> 
> write_thread = threading.Thread(target=write_to_item_queue, args=[item_queue])
> write_thread.start()
> 
> read_thread = threading.Thread(target=read_from_item_queue, args=[item_queue])
> read_thread.start()
> 
> # Wait for the threads to finish.
> write_thread.join()
> read_thread.join()
> 
> print("Finished.")
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


From hjp-python at hjp.at  Mon Aug  8 17:09:27 2022
From: hjp-python at hjp.at (Peter J. Holzer)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 23:09:27 +0200
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
In-Reply-To: <tcqtfg$1jro$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <parallelism-20220808121750@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <tcqtfg$1jro$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <20220808210927.3f3zbwuonptbtazm@hjp.at>

On 2022-08-08 13:53:20 +0200, Andreas Croci wrote:
> I'm in principle ok with locks, if it must be. What I fear is that the lock
> could last long and prevent the function that writes into the list from
> doing so every second. With an FFT on a list that contains a few bytes taken
> every second over one week time (604.800 samples), I believe it's very
> likely that the FFT function takes longer than a second to return.

You woudn't lock the part performing the FFT, of course, only the part
manipulating the shared list.

That said, CPython (the reference implementation of Python) has what is
called the Global Interpreter Lock (GIL) which locks every single Python
instruction. So you can't have two threads actually computing anything
at the same time - at least not if the computation is written in Python.
Math packages like Numpy may or may not release the lock while they are
busy.

        hp

PS: I also agree with what others have said about the perils of
multi-threaded programming.

-- 
   _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Story must make more sense than reality.
|_|_) |                    |
| |   | hjp at hjp.at         |    -- Charles Stross, "Creative writing
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |       challenge!"
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From cs at cskk.id.au  Mon Aug  8 18:37:34 2022
From: cs at cskk.id.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 08:37:34 +1000
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
In-Reply-To: <parallelism-20220808121750@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
References: <parallelism-20220808121750@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <YvGQLrV7lhywpp6M@cskk.homeip.net>

On 08Aug2022 11:20, Stefan Ram <ram at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>Andreas Croci <andrea.croci at gmx.de> writes:
>>Basically the question boils down to wether it is possible to have parts
>>of a program (could be functions) that keep doing their job while other
>>parts do something else on the same data, and what is the best way to do
>>this.
>
>  Yes, but this is difficult. If you ask this question here,
>  you might not be ready for this.

This is a very standard requirement for any concurrent activity and the 
typical approach is a mutex (mutual exclusion).  You've already hit on 
the "standard" approach: a `threading.Lock` object.

>        lock.acquire()
>        try:
>            list.append( i )
>        finally:
>            lock.release()

Small note, which makes writing this much clearer. Lock objects are 
context managers. So:

    with lock:
        list.append(i)

is all you need.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at cskk.id.au>

From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Mon Aug  8 19:22:12 2022
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 00:22:12 +0100
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
In-Reply-To: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxTbmaLZnRg1O25nXb+TKvAg24HsV9YjYBra50q14Gr_pQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 at 19:01, Andreas Croci <andrea.croci at gmx.de> wrote:
>
> tI would like to write a program, that reads from the network a fixed
> amount of bytes and appends them to a list. This should happen once a
> second.
>
> Another part of the program should take the list, as it has been filled
> so far, every 6 hours or so, and do some computations on the data (a FFT).
>
> Every so often (say once a week) the list should be saved to a file,
> shorthened in the front by so many items, and filled further with the
> data coming fom the network. After the first saving of the whole list,
> only the new part (the data that have come since the last saving) should
> be appended to the file. A timestamp is in the data, so it's easy to say
> what is new and what was already there.
>
> I'm not sure how to do this properly: can I write a part of a program
> that keeps doing its job (appending data to the list once every second)
> while another part computes something on the data of the same list,
> ignoring the new data being written?
>
> Basically the question boils down to wether it is possible to have parts
> of a program (could be functions) that keep doing their job while other
> parts do something else on the same data, and what is the best way to do
> this.

Why do these "parts of a program" need to be part of the *same*
program. I would write this as just two separate programs. One
collects the data and writes it to a file. The other periodically
reads the file and computes the DFT.

Note that a lot of the complexity discussed in other posts to do with
threads and locks etc comes from the supposed constraint that this
needs to be done with threads or something else that can work in
parallel *within the same program*. If you relax that constraint the
problem becomes a lot simpler.

--
Oscar

From avi.e.gross at gmail.com  Mon Aug  8 19:50:13 2022
From: avi.e.gross at gmail.com (avi.e.gross at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 19:50:13 -0400
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
In-Reply-To: <parallelism-20220808121750@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <parallelism-20220808121750@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <00ab01d8ab81$9b36cb60$d1a46220$@gmail.com>

Stefan,

You are correct that the goal of a lock is to do something rather quickly
and atomically, so your design should not do something complex or long
before releasing the lock.

In your example, you have a producer adding data as regularly as every
second and another that wakes up rarely and processes all the data since the
last time. So you may want to augment the code you had to do something fast
like point another variable at the data gathered so far and move the
original variable to an empty list or whatever. Then you release the lock
within fractions of a second and let the regular job keep adding to the
initially empty list while the other part of the code processes without a
lock. 

A design like the above has the busy worker constantly checking the lock. An
alternative if you are sure the other process will only show up almost
exactly at 6 hours on the clock, is to have the busy one check the time
instead, but that may be more expensive. 

Still other architectures are possible, such as writing to not a single list
for six hours, but some data structure with multiple sub-lists  such as one
where you switch every minute or so. The second process can note how many
entries there are at the moment, and does all but the last and notes the
location so the next time it starts there. This would work if you did not
need every last bit of data as the two do not interfere with each other. And
no real locks would be needed as the only thing the two parts share is the
position or identity of the current last fragment which only one process
actually touches.

Just some ideas. Lots of other variations are very possible.



-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list <python-list-bounces+avi.e.gross=gmail.com at python.org> On
Behalf Of Stefan Ram
Sent: Monday, August 8, 2022 7:21 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Parallel(?) programming with python

Andreas Croci <andrea.croci at gmx.de> writes:
>Basically the question boils down to wether it is possible to have 
>parts of a program (could be functions) that keep doing their job while 
>other parts do something else on the same data, and what is the best 
>way to do this.

  Yes, but this is difficult. If you ask this question here,
  you might not be ready for this.

  I haven't learned it yet myself, but nevertheless tried to
  write a small example program quickly, which might still
  contain errors because of my lack of education.

import threading
import time

def write_to_list( list, lock, event ):
    for i in range( 10 ):
        lock.acquire()
        try:
            list.append( i )
        finally:
            lock.release()
        event.set()
        time.sleep( 3 )

def read_from_list( list, lock, event ):
    while True:
        event.wait()
        print( "Waking up." )
        event.clear()
        if len( list ):
            print( "List contains " + str( list[ 0 ]) + "." )    
            lock.acquire()
            try:
                del list[ 0 ]
            finally:
                lock.release()
        else:
            print( "List is empty." )

list = []
lock = threading.Lock()
event = threading.Event()
threading.Thread( target=write_to_list, args=[ list, lock, event ]).start()
threading.Thread( target=read_from_list, args=[ list, lock, event ]).start()

  In basketball, first you must learn to dribble and pass,
  before you can begin to shoot.

  With certain reservations, texts that can be considered
  to learn Python are:

"Object-Oriented Programming in Python Documentation" - a PDF file,
Introduction to Programming Using Python - Y Daniel Liang (2013), How to
Think Like a Computer Scientist - Peter Wentworth (2012-08-12), The Coder's
Apprentice - Pieter Spronck (2016-09-21), and Python Programming - John
Zelle (2009).


--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From cs at cskk.id.au  Mon Aug  8 22:30:53 2022
From: cs at cskk.id.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 12:30:53 +1000
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
In-Reply-To: <CAHVvXxTbmaLZnRg1O25nXb+TKvAg24HsV9YjYBra50q14Gr_pQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHVvXxTbmaLZnRg1O25nXb+TKvAg24HsV9YjYBra50q14Gr_pQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <YvHG3S3tqX+sEL6i@cskk.homeip.net>

On 09Aug2022 00:22, Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 at 19:01, Andreas Croci <andrea.croci at gmx.de> wrote:
>> Basically the question boils down to wether it is possible to have 
>> parts
>> of a program (could be functions) that keep doing their job while other
>> parts do something else on the same data, and what is the best way to do
>> this.

Which is of course feasible, as others have outlined.

>Why do these "parts of a program" need to be part of the *same*
>program. I would write this as just two separate programs. One
>collects the data and writes it to a file. The other periodically
>reads the file and computes the DFT.

I would also write these as separate programmes, or at least as distinct 
modes of the same programme (eg "myprog poll" and "myprog archive" etc).  
Largely because you might run the "poll" regularly and briefly, and the 
processes phase separately and less frequently. You don't need to keep a 
single programme lurking around forever - fire it up as required.

However, I want to point out that this _in no way_ removes the need for 
access contol and mutexes. It will change the mechanism (because your 
two programmes are now operating separately) and makes it more concrete 
in your mind what _actually and precisely_ needs protection.

For example, you probably want to avoid _processing_ a data file at the 
same time as _updating_ that file. Depending on what you're doing this 
can be as simple as keeping "to be updated" files with distinct names 
from "available to be processed/archived" files. This is a standard 
difficulty with "hot folder" upload areas.

A common approach might be to write a file with a "temp" style name (eg 
".tmp*") until completed, then rename it to its official name (eg 
"datafile*"). And then your processing/archiving side can simply ignore 
the "in progress" files because they do not match the names it cares 
about.

Anyway, those are specifics, which will be driven by what you're 
actually doing. The point is that you still need to coordinate use of 
the files suitably for your needs. Doing this in one long running 
programme with Threads/mutexes or separate programmes sharing a data 
directory just changes the mechanisms.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at cskk.id.au>

From drsalists at gmail.com  Mon Aug  8 23:43:37 2022
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 20:43:37 -0700
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
In-Reply-To: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_pMw_JBtbDA1VKP9KcHNGRUn6HibGdbEBMA_hhTGG=dRQ@mail.gmail.com>

Queues are better than lists for concurrency.  If you get the right kind,
they have implicit locking, making your code simpler and more robust at the
same time.

CPython threading is mediocre for software systems that have one or more
CPU-bound threads, and your FFT might be CPU-bound.

Rather than using threading directly, you probably should use
https://docs.python.org/3/library/concurrent.futures.html , which gives you
easy switching between threads and processes.

Or if you, like me, get inordinately joyous over programs that run on more
than one kind of Python, you could give up concurrent.futures and use
_thread.  Sadly, that gives up easy flipping between threads and processes,
but gives you easy flipping between CPython and micropython.  Better still,
micropython appears to have more scalable threading than CPython, so if you
decide you need 20 CPU-hungry threads someday, you are less likely to be in
a bind.

For reading from a socket, if you're not going the REST route, may I
suggest https://stromberg.dnsalias.org/~strombrg/bufsock.html ?  It deals
with framing and lengths relatively smoothly.  Otherwise, robust socket
code tends to need while loops and tedious arithmetic.

HTH

On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 10:59 AM Andreas Croci <andrea.croci at gmx.de> wrote:

> I would like to write a program, that reads from the network a fixed
> amount of bytes and appends them to a list. This should happen once a
> second.
>

From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Mon Aug  8 20:50:17 2022
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2022 20:50:17 -0400
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <parallelism-20220808121750@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <tcqtfg$1jro$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <d635cf8c-41f2-4d4c-aad9-44057732314en@googlegroups.com>
 <tcrhof$r1q$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <6ua3fhlps6l1pk1akakj5d93i942vua8so@4ax.com>

On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 19:39:27 +0200, Andreas Croci <andrea.croci at gmx.de>
declaimed the following:

>
>Do you mean queues in the sense of deque (the data structure)? I ask 
>because I can see the advantage there when I try to pop data from the 
>front of it, but I don't see the sense of the following statement ("than 

	Most likely this was a reference to the Queue module -- which is used
to pass data from one thread to another. Your "fetch" thread would package
up the "new" data to be processed by the FFT thread. The FFT thread is
blocked waiting for data to appear on the queue -- when it appears, the FFT
thread reads the entire packet of data and proceeds to process it.

	Note that in this scheme, the FFT thread is NOT on a timer -- the fetch
thread controls the timing by when it puts data into the queue.

cf:
https://docs.python.org/3/library/threading.html
https://docs.python.org/3/library/queue.html

>
>That would obviusly save some coding (but would introduce the need to 
>code the interaction with the database), but I'm not sure it would speed 
>up the thing. Would the RDBMS allow to read a table while something else 
>is writing to it? I doubt it and I'm not sure it doesn't flush the cache 
>before letting you read, which would include a normally slow disk access.
>

	Depends upon the RDBMs. Some are "multi-version concurrency" -- they
snapshot the data at the time of the read, while letting new writes
proceed. But if one is doing read/modify/write, this can cause a problem as
the RDBM will detect that a record was modified by someone else and prevent
you from changing it -- you have to reselect the data to get the current
version.

	You will want to treat each of your network fetches as a transaction --
and close the transaction fast. Your FFT process would need to select all
data in the range to be processed, and load it into memory so you can free
that transaction

https://www.sqlite.org/lockingv3.html See section 3.0 and section 5.0



-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
	wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

From guilhermecamposbh at gmail.com  Mon Aug  8 21:26:07 2022
From: guilhermecamposbh at gmail.com (Guilherme Campos)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 22:26:07 -0300
Subject: Conecting to MySQL
Message-ID: <CAMq4FeBGSQFrQ07Ls77MF4-=Pp=TAUetEoz_32VLQMVeXLmrTg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello folks,

trying to connect to MYSQL it appears the error msg below:
InterfaceError: 2003: Can't connect to MySQL server on 'localhost:3306'
(111 Connection refused)
[image: conexao.png]
How can i fix that.?

thanks in advance

Guilherme Campos
Belo Horizonte - MG

From ikorot01 at gmail.com  Tue Aug  9 10:18:03 2022
From: ikorot01 at gmail.com (Igor Korot)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 09:18:03 -0500
Subject: Conecting to MySQL
In-Reply-To: <CAMq4FeBGSQFrQ07Ls77MF4-=Pp=TAUetEoz_32VLQMVeXLmrTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMq4FeBGSQFrQ07Ls77MF4-=Pp=TAUetEoz_32VLQMVeXLmrTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FnnTw-wt8wRa5t95e0+E0bx4d3RPOMLrk0ih0WuQJGVJm2GQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 9:07 AM Guilherme Campos
<guilhermecamposbh at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello folks,
>
> trying to connect to MYSQL it appears the error msg below:
> InterfaceError: 2003: Can't connect to MySQL server on 'localhost:3306'
> (111 Connection refused)
> [image: conexao.png]
> How can i fix that.?

What do you use for connection?
Does the firewall interfere with the connection?

Thank you.

>
> thanks in advance
>
> Guilherme Campos
> Belo Horizonte - MG
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

From guilhermecamposbh at gmail.com  Tue Aug  9 10:55:27 2022
From: guilhermecamposbh at gmail.com (Guilherme Campos)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 11:55:27 -0300
Subject: Conecting to MySQL
In-Reply-To: <CA+FnnTw-wt8wRa5t95e0+E0bx4d3RPOMLrk0ih0WuQJGVJm2GQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMq4FeBGSQFrQ07Ls77MF4-=Pp=TAUetEoz_32VLQMVeXLmrTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+FnnTw-wt8wRa5t95e0+E0bx4d3RPOMLrk0ih0WuQJGVJm2GQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMq4FeAs3ihpYWroJHY+MpUs6LcgHg9y4S+nf21Xy1GHHv18GA@mail.gmail.com>

Igor,

firewall was disable...

Em ter., 9 de ago. de 2022 ?s 11:18, Igor Korot <ikorot01 at gmail.com>
escreveu:

> Hi,
>
> On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 9:07 AM Guilherme Campos
> <guilhermecamposbh at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello folks,
> >
> > trying to connect to MYSQL it appears the error msg below:
> > InterfaceError: 2003: Can't connect to MySQL server on 'localhost:3306'
> > (111 Connection refused)
> > [image: conexao.png]
> > How can i fix that.?
>
> What do you use for connection?
> Does the firewall interfere with the connection?
>
> Thank you.
>
> >
> > thanks in advance
> >
> > Guilherme Campos
> > Belo Horizonte - MG
> > --
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

From axy at declassed.art  Tue Aug  9 11:27:16 2022
From: axy at declassed.art (Axy)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 08:27:16 -0700
Subject: Conecting to MySQL
In-Reply-To: <CA+FnnTw-wt8wRa5t95e0+E0bx4d3RPOMLrk0ih0WuQJGVJm2GQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMq4FeBGSQFrQ07Ls77MF4-=Pp=TAUetEoz_32VLQMVeXLmrTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+FnnTw-wt8wRa5t95e0+E0bx4d3RPOMLrk0ih0WuQJGVJm2GQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c328117d-c13b-06a9-dd4e-253872054a6e@declassed.art>


>> trying to connect to MYSQL it appears the error msg below:
>> InterfaceError: 2003: Can't connect to MySQL server on 'localhost:3306'
>> (111 Connection refused)
>> [image: conexao.png]
>> How can i fix that.?
> What do you use for connection?
> Does the firewall interfere with the connection?

Firewall usually causes connection to hang and timeout with no response.

But in this case connection looks immediately refused which means either 
port number is wrong or mysql is not listening on 127.0.0.1.


Axy


From ikorot01 at gmail.com  Tue Aug  9 11:36:14 2022
From: ikorot01 at gmail.com (Igor Korot)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 10:36:14 -0500
Subject: Conecting to MySQL
In-Reply-To: <c328117d-c13b-06a9-dd4e-253872054a6e@declassed.art>
References: <CAMq4FeBGSQFrQ07Ls77MF4-=Pp=TAUetEoz_32VLQMVeXLmrTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+FnnTw-wt8wRa5t95e0+E0bx4d3RPOMLrk0ih0WuQJGVJm2GQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <c328117d-c13b-06a9-dd4e-253872054a6e@declassed.art>
Message-ID: <CA+FnnTwu=5f-YrGCJHfxFa25JZnDCWpvnVQztfXq7JGQGXCXDg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
@OP,
Can you try to connect with mysql-workbench?
Also - you didn't answer my first question.

Are you using an ODBC wrapper or python module?

Thank you.


On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 10:27 AM Axy <axy at declassed.art> wrote:
>
>
> >> trying to connect to MYSQL it appears the error msg below:
> >> InterfaceError: 2003: Can't connect to MySQL server on 'localhost:3306'
> >> (111 Connection refused)
> >> [image: conexao.png]
> >> How can i fix that.?
> > What do you use for connection?
> > Does the firewall interfere with the connection?
>
> Firewall usually causes connection to hang and timeout with no response.
>
> But in this case connection looks immediately refused which means either
> port number is wrong or mysql is not listening on 127.0.0.1.
>
>
> Axy
>

From guilhermecamposbh at gmail.com  Tue Aug  9 11:45:33 2022
From: guilhermecamposbh at gmail.com (Guilherme Campos)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 12:45:33 -0300
Subject: Conecting to MySQL
In-Reply-To: <CA+FnnTwu=5f-YrGCJHfxFa25JZnDCWpvnVQztfXq7JGQGXCXDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMq4FeBGSQFrQ07Ls77MF4-=Pp=TAUetEoz_32VLQMVeXLmrTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+FnnTw-wt8wRa5t95e0+E0bx4d3RPOMLrk0ih0WuQJGVJm2GQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <c328117d-c13b-06a9-dd4e-253872054a6e@declassed.art>
 <CA+FnnTwu=5f-YrGCJHfxFa25JZnDCWpvnVQztfXq7JGQGXCXDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMq4FeA0Na7+v0Osvg=Ko7p_BUKZSX=eO4+crWU_pA7wcKn+vg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Igor,

Accessing mysql-workbench it appeared new error messages when I clicked
Server Status.

I created my database on MySQL Workbench . Is that your question?


[image: image.png]

[image: image.png]


Em ter., 9 de ago. de 2022 ?s 12:36, Igor Korot <ikorot01 at gmail.com>
escreveu:

> Hi,
> @OP,
> Can you try to connect with mysql-workbench?
> Also - you didn't answer my first question.
>
> Are you using an ODBC wrapper or python module?
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 10:27 AM Axy <axy at declassed.art> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >> trying to connect to MYSQL it appears the error msg below:
> > >> InterfaceError: 2003: Can't connect to MySQL server on
> 'localhost:3306'
> > >> (111 Connection refused)
> > >> [image: conexao.png]
> > >> How can i fix that.?
> > > What do you use for connection?
> > > Does the firewall interfere with the connection?
> >
> > Firewall usually causes connection to hang and timeout with no response.
> >
> > But in this case connection looks immediately refused which means either
> > port number is wrong or mysql is not listening on 127.0.0.1.
> >
> >
> > Axy
> >
>

From Joseph.Schachner at Teledyne.com  Tue Aug  9 13:04:51 2022
From: Joseph.Schachner at Teledyne.com (Schachner, Joseph (US))
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 17:04:51 +0000
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
In-Reply-To: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <BN8PR14MB28516BC06563B40BFA93AC6BF5629@BN8PR14MB2851.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

Why would this application *require* parallel programming?   This could be done in one, single thread program.   Call time to get time and save it as start_time.   Keep a count of the number of 6 hour intervals, initialize it to 0.

Once a second read data an append to list.  At 6 hours after start time, call a function that does an FFT (see comment about scipy below) and increment the count of 6 hour intervals.  Call time and save new start time. Continue execution.

After 28 six hour intervals, save the list and then slice the list to  shorten it as you want.  Reset the count of 6 hour intervals to zero.

The FFT might take a second, even if you use scipy, depending on how long the list is (If you don?t know about numpy and scipy, look them up! You need them.   Your list can be an array in numpy).  
Saving and slicing the list should take less than a second.

This single thread approach avoids thinking about multiprocessing, locking and unlocking data structures, all that stuff that does not contribute to the goal of the program.

--- Joseph S.


Teledyne Confidential; Commercially Sensitive Business Data

-----Original Message-----
From: Andreas Croci <andrea.croci at gmx.de> 
Sent: Monday, August 8, 2022 6:47 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python

tI would like to write a program, that reads from the network a fixed amount of bytes and appends them to a list. This should happen once a second.

Another part of the program should take the list, as it has been filled so far, every 6 hours or so, and do some computations on the data (a FFT).

Every so often (say once a week) the list should be saved to a file, shorthened in the front by so many items, and filled further with the data coming fom the network. After the first saving of the whole list, only the new part (the data that have come since the last saving) should be appended to the file. A timestamp is in the data, so it's easy to say what is new and what was already there.

I'm not sure how to do this properly: can I write a part of a program that keeps doing its job (appending data to the list once every second) while another part computes something on the data of the same list, ignoring the new data being written?

Basically the question boils down to wether it is possible to have parts of a program (could be functions) that keep doing their job while other parts do something else on the same data, and what is the best way to do this.

From dciprus at cisco.com  Tue Aug  9 14:40:10 2022
From: dciprus at cisco.com (Dan Ciprus (dciprus))
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 18:40:10 +0000
Subject: Conecting to MySQL
In-Reply-To: <c328117d-c13b-06a9-dd4e-253872054a6e@declassed.art>
References: <CAMq4FeBGSQFrQ07Ls77MF4-=Pp=TAUetEoz_32VLQMVeXLmrTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+FnnTw-wt8wRa5t95e0+E0bx4d3RPOMLrk0ih0WuQJGVJm2GQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <c328117d-c13b-06a9-dd4e-253872054a6e@declassed.art>
Message-ID: <20220809183655.ef4yzx2jfvyihoy3@carbon>

Yes, exactly that .. I replied from different account and my email was rejected. Just make sure that
your mysql is actually running. Depending on your OS, run netstat -an | grep 3306 and this will tell
you whether socket is actually in listening mode or not. If it's not, your mysql is either not
running or you have a problem with the configuration.

On Tue, Aug 09, 2022 at 08:27:16AM -0700, Axy via Python-list wrote:
>
>>>trying to connect to MYSQL it appears the error msg below:
>>>InterfaceError: 2003: Can't connect to MySQL server on 'localhost:3306'
>>>(111 Connection refused)
>>>[image: conexao.png]
>>>How can i fix that.?
>>What do you use for connection?
>>Does the firewall interfere with the connection?
>
>Firewall usually causes connection to hang and timeout with no response.
>
>But in this case connection looks immediately refused which means 
>either port number is wrong or mysql is not listening on 127.0.0.1.
>
>
>Axy
>
>-- 
>https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
Daniel Ciprus                              .:|:.:|:.

[ curl -L http://git.io/unix ]
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From dciprus at cisco.com  Tue Aug  9 15:01:33 2022
From: dciprus at cisco.com (Dan Ciprus (dciprus))
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 19:01:33 +0000
Subject: Conecting to MySQL
In-Reply-To: <CAMq4FeA0Na7+v0Osvg=Ko7p_BUKZSX=eO4+crWU_pA7wcKn+vg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMq4FeBGSQFrQ07Ls77MF4-=Pp=TAUetEoz_32VLQMVeXLmrTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+FnnTw-wt8wRa5t95e0+E0bx4d3RPOMLrk0ih0WuQJGVJm2GQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <c328117d-c13b-06a9-dd4e-253872054a6e@declassed.art>
 <CA+FnnTwu=5f-YrGCJHfxFa25JZnDCWpvnVQztfXq7JGQGXCXDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMq4FeA0Na7+v0Osvg=Ko7p_BUKZSX=eO4+crWU_pA7wcKn+vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20220809190131.pvuynuz4fewijpk5@carbon>

I'm not sure about this but this mailing list does not allow attachments ... 

On Tue, Aug 09, 2022 at 12:45:33PM -0300, Guilherme Campos wrote:
>Hi Igor,
>
>Accessing mysql-workbench it appeared new error messages when I clicked
>Server Status.
>
>I created my database on MySQL Workbench . Is that your question?
>
>
>[image: image.png]
>
>[image: image.png]
>
>
>Em ter., 9 de ago. de 2022 ?s 12:36, Igor Korot <ikorot01 at gmail.com>
>escreveu:
>
>> Hi,
>> @OP,
>> Can you try to connect with mysql-workbench?
>> Also - you didn't answer my first question.
>>
>> Are you using an ODBC wrapper or python module?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 10:27 AM Axy <axy at declassed.art> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > >> trying to connect to MYSQL it appears the error msg below:
>> > >> InterfaceError: 2003: Can't connect to MySQL server on
>> 'localhost:3306'
>> > >> (111 Connection refused)
>> > >> [image: conexao.png]
>> > >> How can i fix that.?
>> > > What do you use for connection?
>> > > Does the firewall interfere with the connection?
>> >
>> > Firewall usually causes connection to hang and timeout with no response.
>> >
>> > But in this case connection looks immediately refused which means either
>> > port number is wrong or mysql is not listening on 127.0.0.1.
>> >
>> >
>> > Axy
>> >
>>
>-- 
>https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
Daniel Ciprus                              .:|:.:|:.
CONSULTING ENGINEER.CUSTOMER DELIVERY   Cisco Systems Inc.
dciprus at cisco.com
tel: +1-703-484-0205
mob: +1-540-223-7098

[ curl -L http://git.io/unix ]
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From helmut at weingrill.net  Wed Aug 10 04:02:57 2022
From: helmut at weingrill.net (Helmut Weingrill)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 10:02:57 +0200
Subject: cols_justification
Message-ID: <32b522e0-828a-b7ca-c978-8d5320aa69a1@weingrill.net>

I installed Python 3.11 0b3. In the IDLE, cols_justification works fine 
in my program "sg.Table". When installing Pycharm 2022.2 later, 
"cols_just.." does not work. Error message: File "H:\pf\PyFibu\FIBU.py", 
line 85, in beg_buchen [sg.table(values=list field, headings=header, 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ TypeError: Table.__init__() received an 
unexpected keyword argument 'cols_justification'. Please, I need help - 
thanks!

From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug 10 13:04:50 2022
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 18:04:50 +0100
Subject: cols_justification
In-Reply-To: <32b522e0-828a-b7ca-c978-8d5320aa69a1@weingrill.net>
References: <32b522e0-828a-b7ca-c978-8d5320aa69a1@weingrill.net>
Message-ID: <0dfb6785-4242-4579-4927-b91ff631f4a8@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2022-08-10 09:02, Helmut Weingrill wrote:
> I installed Python 3.11 0b3. In the IDLE, cols_justification works fine
> in my program "sg.Table". When installing Pycharm 2022.2 later,
> "cols_just.." does not work. Error message: File "H:\pf\PyFibu\FIBU.py",
> line 85, in beg_buchen [sg.table(values=list field, headings=header,
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ TypeError: Table.__init__() received an
> unexpected keyword argument 'cols_justification'. Please, I need help -
> thanks!

It would've helped if you had mentioned PySimpleGUI. It took me some 
time to figure out what you were talking about!

Anyway, it looks like you're using an older version of it when using 
PyCharm (or PyCharm is finding an older version of it or Python).

From dieter at handshake.de  Wed Aug 10 13:33:04 2022
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 19:33:04 +0200
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
In-Reply-To: <BN8PR14MB28516BC06563B40BFA93AC6BF5629@BN8PR14MB2851.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <BN8PR14MB28516BC06563B40BFA93AC6BF5629@BN8PR14MB2851.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <25331.60368.319662.710495@ixdm.fritz.box>

Schachner, Joseph (US) wrote at 2022-8-9 17:04 +0000:
>Why would this application *require* parallel programming?   This could be done in one, single thread program.   Call time to get time and save it as start_time.   Keep a count of the number of 6 hour intervals, initialize it to 0.

You could also use the `sched` module from Python's library.

From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Wed Aug 10 14:19:37 2022
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 14:19:37 -0400
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <BN8PR14MB28516BC06563B40BFA93AC6BF5629@BN8PR14MB2851.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
 <25331.60368.319662.710495@ixdm.fritz.box>
 <mailman.246.1660152793.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <q8t7fht4vdvnhea5e0p7npv5a7si5tklrn@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 19:33:04 +0200, "Dieter Maurer" <dieter at handshake.de>
declaimed the following:

>Schachner, Joseph (US) wrote at 2022-8-9 17:04 +0000:
>>Why would this application *require* parallel programming?   This could be done in one, single thread program.   Call time to get time and save it as start_time.   Keep a count of the number of 6 hour intervals, initialize it to 0.
>
>You could also use the `sched` module from Python's library.

	<sigh> Time to really read the library reference manual again...

	Though if I read this correctly, a long running action /will/ delay
others -- which could mean the (FFT) process could block collecting new
1-second readings while it is active. It also is "one-shot" on the
scheduled actions, meaning those actions still have to reschedule
themselves for the next time period.


-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
	wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

From 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com  Wed Aug 10 14:43:47 2022
From: 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com (2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 13:43:47 -0500
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
In-Reply-To: <BN8PR14MB28516BC06563B40BFA93AC6BF5629@BN8PR14MB2851.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <BN8PR14MB28516BC06563B40BFA93AC6BF5629@BN8PR14MB2851.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <YvP8Y70sLHedQns/@anomaly>

On 2022-08-09 at 17:04:51 +0000,
"Schachner, Joseph (US)" <Joseph.Schachner at Teledyne.com> wrote:

> Why would this application *require* parallel programming?  This could
> be done in one, single thread program.  Call time to get time and save
> it as start_time.  Keep a count of the number of 6 hour intervals,
> initialize it to 0.

In theory, you are correct.

In practice, [stuff] happens.  What if your program crashes?  Or the
computer crashes?  Or there's a Python update?  Or an OS update?  Where
does all that pending data go, and how will you recover it after you've
addressed whatever happened? ?

OTOH, once you start writing the pending data to a file, then it's an
extremely simple leap to multiple programs (rather than multiple
threads) for all kinds of good reasons.

? FWIW, I used to develop highly available systems, such as telephone
switches, which allow [stuff] to happen, and yet continue to function.
It's pretty cool to yank a board (yes, physically remove it, without
warning) from the system without [apparently] disrupting anything.  Such
systems also allow for hardware, OS, and application upgrades, too
(IIRC, we were allowed a handful of seconds of downtime per year to meet
our availability requirements).  That said, designing and building such
a system for the sakes of simplicity and convenience of the application
we're talking about here would make a pretty good definition of
"overkill."

From avi.e.gross at gmail.com  Wed Aug 10 14:54:36 2022
From: avi.e.gross at gmail.com (avi.e.gross at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 14:54:36 -0400
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
In-Reply-To: <25331.60368.319662.710495@ixdm.fritz.box>
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <BN8PR14MB28516BC06563B40BFA93AC6BF5629@BN8PR14MB2851.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
 <25331.60368.319662.710495@ixdm.fritz.box>
Message-ID: <011901d8acea$a32bc8b0$e9835a10$@gmail.com>

There are many possible discussions we can have here and some are not really
about whether and how to use Python.

The user asked how to do what is a fairly standard task for some people and
arguably is not necessarily best done using a single application running
things in parallel. 

So, yes, if you have full access to your machine and can schedule tasks,
then some obvious answers come to mind where one process listens and
receives data and stores it, and another process periodically wakes up and
grabs recent data and processes it and perhaps still another process comes
up even less often and does some re-arrangement of old data.

And, yes, for such large volumes of data it may be a poor design to hold all
the data in memory for many hours or even days and various ways of using a
database or files/folders with a naming structure are a good idea.

But the original question remains, in my opinion, a not horrible one. All
kinds of applications can be written with sets of tasks run largely in
parallel with some form of communication between tasks using shared data
structures like queues and perhaps locks and with a requirement that any
tasks that take nontrivial time need a way to buffer any communications to
not block others. 

Also, for people who want to start ONE process and let it run, and perhaps
may not be able to easily schedule other processes on a system level, it can
be advantageous to know how to set up something along those lines within a
single python session.

Of course, for efficiency reasons, any I/O to files slows things down but
what is described here as the situation seems to be somewhat easier and
safer to do in so many other ways. I think a main point is that there are
good ways to avoid the data from being acted on by two parties that share
memory. One is NOT to share memory for this purpose. Another might be to
have the 6-hour process use a lock to move the data aside or send a message
to the receiving process to pause a moment and set the data aside and begin
collecting anew while the old is processed and so on.

There are many such choices and the parts need not be in the same process or
all written in python. But some solutions can be generalized easier than
others. For example, can there become a need to collect data from multiple
sources, perhaps using multiple listeners?

-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list <python-list-bounces+avi.e.gross=gmail.com at python.org> On
Behalf Of Dieter Maurer
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 1:33 PM
To: Schachner, Joseph (US) <Joseph.Schachner at Teledyne.com>
Cc: Andreas Croci <andrea.croci at gmx.de>; python-list at python.org
Subject: RE: Parallel(?) programming with python

Schachner, Joseph (US) wrote at 2022-8-9 17:04 +0000:
>Why would this application *require* parallel programming?   This could be
done in one, single thread program.   Call time to get time and save it as
start_time.   Keep a count of the number of 6 hour intervals, initialize it
to 0.

You could also use the `sched` module from Python's library.
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From hjp-python at hjp.at  Wed Aug 10 16:29:38 2022
From: hjp-python at hjp.at (Peter J. Holzer)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 22:29:38 +0200
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
In-Reply-To: <q8t7fht4vdvnhea5e0p7npv5a7si5tklrn@4ax.com>
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <BN8PR14MB28516BC06563B40BFA93AC6BF5629@BN8PR14MB2851.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
 <25331.60368.319662.710495@ixdm.fritz.box>
 <mailman.246.1660152793.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <q8t7fht4vdvnhea5e0p7npv5a7si5tklrn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20220810202938.rakcvusfgenmvsrx@hjp.at>

On 2022-08-10 14:19:37 -0400, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 19:33:04 +0200, "Dieter Maurer" <dieter at handshake.de>
> declaimed the following:
> >Schachner, Joseph (US) wrote at 2022-8-9 17:04 +0000:
> >>Why would this application *require* parallel programming?   This
> >>could be done in one, single thread program.   Call time to get time
> >>and save it as start_time.   Keep a count of the number of 6 hour
> >>intervals, initialize it to 0.
[...]
> 	Though if I read this correctly, a long running action /will/
> 	delay others -- which could mean the (FFT) process could block
> 	collecting new 1-second readings while it is active.

Certainly, but does it matter? Data is received from some network
connection and network connections often involve quite a bit of
buffering. If the consumer is blocked for 3 or 4 or maybe even 20
seconds, the producer might not even notice. (This of course depends
very much on the details which we know nothing about.)

        hp

-- 
   _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Story must make more sense than reality.
|_|_) |                    |
| |   | hjp at hjp.at         |    -- Charles Stross, "Creative writing
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |       challenge!"
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From subtitle.indo at gmail.com  Thu Aug 11 08:52:05 2022
From: subtitle.indo at gmail.com (subin)
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2022 13:52:05 +0100
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
In-Reply-To: <20220810202938.rakcvusfgenmvsrx@hjp.at>
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <BN8PR14MB28516BC06563B40BFA93AC6BF5629@BN8PR14MB2851.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
 <25331.60368.319662.710495@ixdm.fritz.box>
 <mailman.246.1660152793.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <q8t7fht4vdvnhea5e0p7npv5a7si5tklrn@4ax.com>
 <20220810202938.rakcvusfgenmvsrx@hjp.at>
Message-ID: <CAJnMy6cjQsOthn3NSsqZwbF0Pq8Jshzkahf7Tv7VFyunktV08Q@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks again for the info.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 9:31 PM Peter J. Holzer <hjp-python at hjp.at> wrote:

> On 2022-08-10 14:19:37 -0400, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> > On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 19:33:04 +0200, "Dieter Maurer" <dieter at handshake.de
> >
> > declaimed the following:
> > >Schachner, Joseph (US) wrote at 2022-8-9 17:04 +0000:
> > >>Why would this application *require* parallel programming?   This
> > >>could be done in one, single thread program.   Call time to get time
> > >>and save it as start_time.   Keep a count of the number of 6 hour
> > >>intervals, initialize it to 0.
> [...]
> >       Though if I read this correctly, a long running action /will/
> >       delay others -- which could mean the (FFT) process could block
> >       collecting new 1-second readings while it is active.
>
> Certainly, but does it matter? Data is received from some network
> connection and network connections often involve quite a bit of
> buffering. If the consumer is blocked for 3 or 4 or maybe even 20
> seconds, the producer might not even notice. (This of course depends
> very much on the details which we know nothing about.)
>
>         hp
>
> --
>    _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Story must make more sense than reality.
> |_|_) |                    |
> | |   | hjp at hjp.at         |    -- Charles Stross, "Creative writing
> __/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |       challenge!"
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

From subtitle.indo at gmail.com  Thu Aug 11 08:54:56 2022
From: subtitle.indo at gmail.com (subin)
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2022 13:54:56 +0100
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
In-Reply-To: <YvP8Y70sLHedQns/@anomaly>
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <BN8PR14MB28516BC06563B40BFA93AC6BF5629@BN8PR14MB2851.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
 <YvP8Y70sLHedQns/@anomaly>
Message-ID: <CAJnMy6coQ02_ExQ+AJ0rZjtCKw0F07SHEu1Js8QvnfJHOVCnkA@mail.gmail.com>

Please let me know if that is okay.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 7:46 PM <2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com> wrote:

> On 2022-08-09 at 17:04:51 +0000,
> "Schachner, Joseph (US)" <Joseph.Schachner at Teledyne.com> wrote:
>
> > Why would this application *require* parallel programming?  This could
> > be done in one, single thread program.  Call time to get time and save
> > it as start_time.  Keep a count of the number of 6 hour intervals,
> > initialize it to 0.
>
> In theory, you are correct.
>
> In practice, [stuff] happens.  What if your program crashes?  Or the
> computer crashes?  Or there's a Python update?  Or an OS update?  Where
> does all that pending data go, and how will you recover it after you've
> addressed whatever happened? ?
>
> OTOH, once you start writing the pending data to a file, then it's an
> extremely simple leap to multiple programs (rather than multiple
> threads) for all kinds of good reasons.
>
> ? FWIW, I used to develop highly available systems, such as telephone
> switches, which allow [stuff] to happen, and yet continue to function.
> It's pretty cool to yank a board (yes, physically remove it, without
> warning) from the system without [apparently] disrupting anything.  Such
> systems also allow for hardware, OS, and application upgrades, too
> (IIRC, we were allowed a handful of seconds of downtime per year to meet
> our availability requirements).  That said, designing and building such
> a system for the sakes of simplicity and convenience of the application
> we're talking about here would make a pretty good definition of
> "overkill."
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

From dieter at handshake.de  Thu Aug 11 12:13:07 2022
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2022 18:13:07 +0200
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
In-Reply-To: <q8t7fht4vdvnhea5e0p7npv5a7si5tklrn@4ax.com>
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <BN8PR14MB28516BC06563B40BFA93AC6BF5629@BN8PR14MB2851.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
 <25331.60368.319662.710495@ixdm.fritz.box>
 <mailman.246.1660152793.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <q8t7fht4vdvnhea5e0p7npv5a7si5tklrn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <25333.10899.734244.696128@ixdm.fritz.box>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote at 2022-8-10 14:19 -0400:
>On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 19:33:04 +0200, "Dieter Maurer" <dieter at handshake.de>
> ...
>>You could also use the `sched` module from Python's library.
>
>	<sigh> Time to really read the library reference manual again...
>
>	Though if I read this correctly, a long running action /will/ delay
>others -- which could mean the (FFT) process could block collecting new
>1-second readings while it is active. It also is "one-shot" on the
>scheduled actions, meaning those actions still have to reschedule
>themselves for the next time period.

Both true.

With `multiprocessing`, you can delegate long running activity
to a separate process.

From avi.e.gross at gmail.com  Sun Aug 14 21:33:38 2022
From: avi.e.gross at gmail.com (avi.e.gross at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2022 21:33:38 -0400
Subject: [Tutor] (no subject)
References: <CAAqoTx4u9TtqXLZ34y153RyZ1nC3HyntFGzb81ZG4y6wSm43Vg@mail.gmail.com> 
Message-ID: <00b401d8b047$0bb9c440$232d4cc0$@gmail.com>

How long?

Not fibbing but infinite is infinite and I simply so not have the time.

This is so such an EASY question that you need to show some work to interest
us.

You can do this in ANY programming language so explain if there is a reason
you ask here or ...

The real question is what you want. Do you want an algorithm, perhaps in a
function, that returns the first N numbers in the sequence, or one that can
start with an alternate sequences than the usual 0/1 or perhaps do you want
a generator that will return one number at a time infinitely, or until the
world ends, or someone pulls a power cord, whichever is sooner?


-----Original Message-----
From: Tutor <tutor-bounces+avi.e.gross=gmail.com at python.org> On Behalf Of
Phindile Julia
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2022 12:49 PM
To: tutor at python.org
Subject: [Tutor] (no subject)

Hey how to create a Fibonacci list?
_______________________________________________
Tutor maillist  -  Tutor at python.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


From torriem at gmail.com  Sun Aug 14 21:35:54 2022
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2022 19:35:54 -0600
Subject: Conecting to MySQL
In-Reply-To: <CAMq4FeBGSQFrQ07Ls77MF4-=Pp=TAUetEoz_32VLQMVeXLmrTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMq4FeBGSQFrQ07Ls77MF4-=Pp=TAUetEoz_32VLQMVeXLmrTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4085ab86-3b52-aa59-89cd-a913e10d7765@gmail.com>

On 8/8/22 19:26, Guilherme Campos wrote:
> Hello folks,
> 
> trying to connect to MYSQL it appears the error msg below:
> InterfaceError: 2003: Can't connect to MySQL server on 'localhost:3306'
> (111 Connection refused)
> [image: conexao.png]
> How can i fix that.?

MySQL can listen on a local unix socket (named pipe in Windows), an
internet TCP/IP port, or both.  If your MySQL is running, it could be
listening on the local socket or named port, which has a different url
than localhost:3306.  MySQL can be configured to also listen on a TCP/IP
port, which is what you code is apparently expecting.

Although the fact that your MySQL Workbench cannot connect either
suggests that MySQL is not running at all.

Configuring MySQL is a bit beyond the scope of this list, although I'm
sure there are people here who know how to do it.  What OS are you using?

From owahjonathan at gmail.com  Sat Aug 13 07:55:17 2022
From: owahjonathan at gmail.com (Jonathan Owah)
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2022 12:55:17 +0100
Subject: Persistent Error: Python was not found
Message-ID: <CALwmfg==UiA4qvyzc4GgOW-xM2OPfxZtMiH-=g-S5g3u-kmZQA@mail.gmail.com>

Good day,
Great job on making Python easily accessible.

I'm using a  Windows 10, 64gb HP EliteBook.

I've been trying to configure my laptop to run python scripts.
This is the error I keep getting:
Python was not found; run without arguments to install from the Microsoft
Store, or disable this shortcut from Settings > Manage App Execution
Aliases.

Everything I've tried has failed.
I've uninstalled and reinstalled
I've added to path, both user and system path,manually and from fresh
installation
I've downloaded from Microsoft Store
I've gone to manage app aliases and switched off
I've used Git Bash, Powershell, cmd

I'm able to check my python version: 3.10.6.

I can't do anything else and it's really frustrating.

I've been at it for days, I don't know what else to do.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Regards

From gorevaradv at gmail.com  Sat Aug 13 11:32:19 2022
From: gorevaradv at gmail.com (Varad Gore)
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2022 08:32:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python getting problem of installing pyqt5
Message-ID: <ad11f4a8-1802-4618-beac-fe7299aeade8n@googlegroups.com>

Collecting pyqt5
  Using cached PyQt5-5.15.7-cp37-abi3-win_amd64.whl (6.8 MB)
Requirement already satisfied: PyQt5-Qt5>=5.15.0 in c:\users\gorev\appdata\local\packages\pythonsoftwarefoundation.python.3.10_qbz5n2kfra8p0\localcache\local-packages\python310\site-packages (from pyqt5) (5.15.2)
Requirement already satisfied: PyQt5-sip<13,>=12.11 in c:\users\gorev\appdata\local\packages\pythonsoftwarefoundation.python.3.10_qbz5n2kfra8p0\localcache\local-packages\python310\site-packages (from pyqt5) (12.11.0)
Installing collected packages: pyqt5
  WARNING: The scripts pylupdate5.exe, pyrcc5.exe and pyuic5.exe are installed in 'C:\Users\gorev\AppData\Local\Packages\PythonSoftwareFoundation.Python.3.10_qbz5n2kfra8p0\LocalCache\local-packages\Python310\Scripts' which is not on PATH.
  Consider adding this directory to PATH or, if you prefer to suppress this warning, use --no-warn-script-location.
Successfully installed pyqt5-5.15.7
(venv) PS C:\Users\gorev\OneDrive\Desktop\Medidost> ^C
(venv) PS C:\Users\gorev\OneDrive\Desktop\Medidost> pip install pyqt5-tools 
Collecting pyqt5-tools
  Using cached pyqt5_tools-5.15.4.3.2-py3-none-any.whl (29 kB)
Collecting pyqt5==5.15.4
  Using cached PyQt5-5.15.4.tar.gz (3.3 MB)
  Installing build dependencies ... done
  Getting requirements to build wheel ... done
  Preparing metadata (pyproject.toml) ... error
  error: subprocess-exited-with-error

  ? Preparing metadata (pyproject.toml) did not run successfully.
  ? exit code: 1
  ??> [29 lines of output]
      Traceback (most recent call last):
        File "C:\Users\gorev\AppData\Local\Packages\PythonSoftwareFoundation.Python.3.10_qbz5n2kfra8p0\LocalCache\local-packages\Python310\site-packages\pip\_vendor\pep517\in_process\_in_process.py", line 156, in prepare_metadata_for_build_wheel
          hook = backend.prepare_metadata_for_build_wheel
      AttributeError: module 'sipbuild.api' has no attribute 'prepare_metadata_for_build_wheel'

      During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

      Traceback (most recent call last):
        File "C:\Users\gorev\AppData\Local\Packages\PythonSoftwareFoundation.Python.3.10_qbz5n2kfra8p0\LocalCache\local-packages\Python310\site-packages\pip\_vendor\pep517\in_process\_in_process.py", line 363, in <module>
          main()
        File "C:\Users\gorev\AppData\Local\Packages\PythonSoftwareFoundation.Python.3.10_qbz5n2kfra8p0\LocalCache\local-packages\Python310\site-packages\pip\_vendor\pep517\in_process\_in_process.py", line 345, in main
          json_out['return_val'] = hook(**hook_input['kwargs'])
        File "C:\Users\gorev\AppData\Local\Packages\PythonSoftwareFoundation.Python.3.10_qbz5n2kfra8p0\LocalCache\local-packages\Python310\site-packages\pip\_vendor\pep517\in_process\_in_process.py", line 160, in prepare_metadata_for_build_wheel
          whl_basename = backend.build_wheel(metadata_directory, config_settings)
        File "C:\Users\gorev\AppData\Local\Temp\pip-build-env-tp5amvi7\overlay\Lib\site-packages\sipbuild\api.py", line 46, in build_wheel
          project = AbstractProject.bootstrap('wheel',
        File "C:\Users\gorev\AppData\Local\Temp\pip-build-env-tp5amvi7\overlay\Lib\site-packages\sipbuild\abstract_project.py", line 87, in bootstrap
          project.setup(pyproject, tool, tool_description)
        File "C:\Users\gorev\AppData\Local\Temp\pip-build-env-tp5amvi7\overlay\Lib\site-packages\sipbuild\project.py", line 584, in setup
          self.apply_user_defaults(tool)
        File "C:\Users\gorev\AppData\Local\Temp\pip-install-gufhuvvi\pyqt5_1a911aba5155486d9ea117814aa4a43e\project.py", line 63, in apply_user_defaults
          super().apply_user_defaults(tool)
        File "C:\Users\gorev\AppData\Local\Temp\pip-build-env-tp5amvi7\overlay\Lib\site-packages\pyqtbuild\project.py", line 70, in apply_user_defaults
          super().apply_user_defaults(tool)
        File "C:\Users\gorev\AppData\Local\Temp\pip-build-env-tp5amvi7\overlay\Lib\site-packages\sipbuild\project.py", line 236, in apply_user_defaults
          self.builder.apply_user_defaults(tool)
        File "C:\Users\gorev\AppData\Local\Temp\pip-build-env-tp5amvi7\overlay\Lib\site-packages\pyqtbuild\builder.py", line 67, in apply_user_defaults
          raise PyProjectOptionException('qmake',
      sipbuild.pyproject.PyProjectOptionException
      [end of output]

  note: This error originates from a subprocess, and is likely not a problem with pip.
error: metadata-generation-failed

? Encountered error while generating package metadata.
??> See above for output.

note: This is an issue with the package mentioned above, not pip.
hint: See above for details.

From miked at dewhirst.com.au  Mon Aug 15 00:38:25 2022
From: miked at dewhirst.com.au (Mike Dewhirst)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 14:38:25 +1000
Subject: Persistent Error: Python was not found
In-Reply-To: <CALwmfg==UiA4qvyzc4GgOW-xM2OPfxZtMiH-=g-S5g3u-kmZQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALwmfg==UiA4qvyzc4GgOW-xM2OPfxZtMiH-=g-S5g3u-kmZQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c18deb22-9081-fdd0-4e23-f76f54672eac@dewhirst.com.au>

Jonathan

This is what I would do ...

1.??? Download Python from python.org not Microsoft

2.??? Install as an expert or custom install to C:\Python310 rather than 
C:\Program files

3.??? Ignore this point - I was going to mention VirtualEnv which comes 
later for software development and thereafter you don't need to put 
Python on the Windows path. As I said, ignore this point.

4.??? Add C:\Python310\Scripts to the path (system or user)

5.??? Add C:\Python310 to the path after C:\Python310\Scripts

6.??? Open a cmd prompt and enter python to prove it starts then quit. 
Exit the cmd window

7.??? Create a directory in the root of your user profile 
(C:\Users\Jonathan ??) called pythontest

8.??? Save 'print("hello world")' in a text file called hello.py in the 
above directory

9.??? Open a cmd prompt and type > python 
C:\Users\Jonathan\pythontest\hello.py

Should work.

If you want to execute a python script without first opening a cmd 
prompt, you need a bat file or shortcut which contains the command line 
you want executed. Give that a double-click and it should also work.

If Python is on the path you don't need to specify where it is.

You do need to tell Python what you want it to execute.

It is possible that you can associate .py files with Python but that 
would be a step too far for me.

Good luck

M

On 13/08/2022 9:55 pm, Jonathan Owah wrote:
> Good day,
> Great job on making Python easily accessible.
>
> I'm using a  Windows 10, 64gb HP EliteBook.
>
> I've been trying to configure my laptop to run python scripts.
> This is the error I keep getting:
> Python was not found; run without arguments to install from the Microsoft
> Store, or disable this shortcut from Settings > Manage App Execution
> Aliases.
>
> Everything I've tried has failed.
> I've uninstalled and reinstalled
> I've added to path, both user and system path,manually and from fresh
> installation
> I've downloaded from Microsoft Store
> I've gone to manage app aliases and switched off
> I've used Git Bash, Powershell, cmd
>
> I'm able to check my python version: 3.10.6.
>
> I can't do anything else and it's really frustrating.
>
> I've been at it for days, I don't know what else to do.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>
> Regards


-- 
Signed email is an absolute defence against phishing. This email has
been signed with my private key. If you import my public key you can
automatically decrypt my signature and be sure it came from me. Just
ask and I'll send it to you. Your email software can handle signing.

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From barry at barrys-emacs.org  Mon Aug 15 02:51:53 2022
From: barry at barrys-emacs.org (Barry)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 07:51:53 +0100
Subject: Persistent Error: Python was not found
In-Reply-To: <CALwmfg==UiA4qvyzc4GgOW-xM2OPfxZtMiH-=g-S5g3u-kmZQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALwmfg==UiA4qvyzc4GgOW-xM2OPfxZtMiH-=g-S5g3u-kmZQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C2D43108-A0AC-409B-A192-27E4AA301330@barrys-emacs.org>



> On 15 Aug 2022, at 04:10, Jonathan Owah <owahjonathan at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Good day,
> Great job on making Python easily accessible.

Try using the python launcher py.exe.
It is documented here https://docs.python.org/3/using/windows.html#python-launcher-for-windows
That page documents lots of other things that you may need to know about on windows.

Barry

> 
> I'm using a  Windows 10, 64gb HP EliteBook.
> 
> I've been trying to configure my laptop to run python scripts.
> This is the error I keep getting:
> Python was not found; run without arguments to install from the Microsoft
> Store, or disable this shortcut from Settings > Manage App Execution
> Aliases.
> 
> Everything I've tried has failed.
> I've uninstalled and reinstalled
> I've added to path, both user and system path,manually and from fresh
> installation
> I've downloaded from Microsoft Store
> I've gone to manage app aliases and switched off
> I've used Git Bash, Powershell, cmd
> 
> I'm able to check my python version: 3.10.6.
> 
> I can't do anything else and it's really frustrating.
> 
> I've been at it for days, I don't know what else to do.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help.
> 
> Regards
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

From eryksun at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 03:14:30 2022
From: eryksun at gmail.com (Eryk Sun)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 02:14:30 -0500
Subject: Persistent Error: Python was not found
In-Reply-To: <CALwmfg==UiA4qvyzc4GgOW-xM2OPfxZtMiH-=g-S5g3u-kmZQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALwmfg==UiA4qvyzc4GgOW-xM2OPfxZtMiH-=g-S5g3u-kmZQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1avrvcO5-=yftQ_e4igMSHprqVbPhRwhx1koqH4CrgPjfw@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/13/22, Jonathan Owah <owahjonathan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've been trying to configure my laptop to run python scripts.
> This is the error I keep getting:
> Python was not found; run without arguments to install from the Microsoft
> Store, or disable this shortcut from Settings > Manage App Execution
> Aliases.

If you keep seeing this message, then the shell is finding and running
Microsoft's default "python.exe" redirector app execution alias that's
located in "%LocalAppData%\Microsoft\WindowsApps". By default, this
directory is set at the beginning of the user "Path" value in the
registry and thus takes precedence (but not over the system "Path").
Confirm this by running `where.exe python`.

An app execution alias is a special type of filesystem symbolic link
to a store app's executable. These aliases are created in a user's
"%LocalAppData%\Microsoft\WindowsApps" directory. Store apps
themselves are usually installed in "%ProgramFiles%\WindowsApps",
which is a system managed directory that even administrators can't
easily modify (and shouldn't modify). Each user on a system has their
own set of installed store apps, even though the apps are installed
only once at the system level.

By default, Windows creates "python.exe" and "python3.exe" aliases for
the "App Installer" PythonRedirector app. In the alias manager, these
two will be clearly listed as aliases for "App Installer". If you run
this redirector app with one or more command-line arguments, it will
print the above quoted message to the console. If the redirector app
is run without arguments, it will open the Microsoft Store to install
the latest version of the Python store app distribution. Currently
that means Python 3.10.

In my experience, the app execution alias manager component of Windows
is unreliable. A disabled alias might still exist in
"%LocalAppData%\Microsoft\WindowsApps", or an old alias might be left
in place when an app is installed.  Once the real Python store app is
installed, go back into the alias manager and toggle the "python.exe"
and "python3.exe" aliases off and back on. If that doesn't resolve the
problem, manually delete the "python.exe" and "python3.exe" aliases
from "%LocalAppData%\Microsoft\WindowsApps". Then toggle them off and
on again in the alias manager. Hopefully they'll be created to
correctly alias the real Python app instead of the "App Installer"
redirector.

From owahjonathan at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 05:11:08 2022
From: owahjonathan at gmail.com (Jonathan Owah)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 10:11:08 +0100
Subject: Persistent Error: Python was not found
In-Reply-To: <CACL+1avrvcO5-=yftQ_e4igMSHprqVbPhRwhx1koqH4CrgPjfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALwmfg==UiA4qvyzc4GgOW-xM2OPfxZtMiH-=g-S5g3u-kmZQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1avrvcO5-=yftQ_e4igMSHprqVbPhRwhx1koqH4CrgPjfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwmfgk2-3MP+ogev9p9bZyWxY7rVneqENT_L0X5trYXDh4CSg@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you so much for your assistance .

The fault was actually mine: I was running a command
with python3, instead of just python.
python3 works for Mac, but not Windows.

I'm fairly new to Python so I was just following along a
tutorial, and I didn't take note of the fact that the command
didn't work because the tutorial was done on a MacBook,
while I'm using a Windows device.

Thanks for your help,
Regards

On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 8:14 AM Eryk Sun <eryksun at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 8/13/22, Jonathan Owah <owahjonathan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I've been trying to configure my laptop to run python scripts.
> > This is the error I keep getting:
> > Python was not found; run without arguments to install from the Microsoft
> > Store, or disable this shortcut from Settings > Manage App Execution
> > Aliases.
>
> If you keep seeing this message, then the shell is finding and running
> Microsoft's default "python.exe" redirector app execution alias that's
> located in "%LocalAppData%\Microsoft\WindowsApps". By default, this
> directory is set at the beginning of the user "Path" value in the
> registry and thus takes precedence (but not over the system "Path").
> Confirm this by running `where.exe python`.
>
> An app execution alias is a special type of filesystem symbolic link
> to a store app's executable. These aliases are created in a user's
> "%LocalAppData%\Microsoft\WindowsApps" directory. Store apps
> themselves are usually installed in "%ProgramFiles%\WindowsApps",
> which is a system managed directory that even administrators can't
> easily modify (and shouldn't modify). Each user on a system has their
> own set of installed store apps, even though the apps are installed
> only once at the system level.
>
> By default, Windows creates "python.exe" and "python3.exe" aliases for
> the "App Installer" PythonRedirector app. In the alias manager, these
> two will be clearly listed as aliases for "App Installer". If you run
> this redirector app with one or more command-line arguments, it will
> print the above quoted message to the console. If the redirector app
> is run without arguments, it will open the Microsoft Store to install
> the latest version of the Python store app distribution. Currently
> that means Python 3.10.
>
> In my experience, the app execution alias manager component of Windows
> is unreliable. A disabled alias might still exist in
> "%LocalAppData%\Microsoft\WindowsApps", or an old alias might be left
> in place when an app is installed.  Once the real Python store app is
> installed, go back into the alias manager and toggle the "python.exe"
> and "python3.exe" aliases off and back on. If that doesn't resolve the
> problem, manually delete the "python.exe" and "python3.exe" aliases
> from "%LocalAppData%\Microsoft\WindowsApps". Then toggle them off and
> on again in the alias manager. Hopefully they'll be created to
> correctly alias the real Python app instead of the "App Installer"
> redirector.
>

From eryksun at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 05:41:21 2022
From: eryksun at gmail.com (Eryk Sun)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 04:41:21 -0500
Subject: Persistent Error: Python was not found
In-Reply-To: <CALwmfgk2-3MP+ogev9p9bZyWxY7rVneqENT_L0X5trYXDh4CSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALwmfg==UiA4qvyzc4GgOW-xM2OPfxZtMiH-=g-S5g3u-kmZQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1avrvcO5-=yftQ_e4igMSHprqVbPhRwhx1koqH4CrgPjfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALwmfgk2-3MP+ogev9p9bZyWxY7rVneqENT_L0X5trYXDh4CSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1auVp9NbAO_W8N7rtL5maqh7x4mHs_YhtDiY8e8=xiPgBA@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/15/22, Jonathan Owah <owahjonathan at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you so much for your assistance .
>
> The fault was actually mine: I was running a command
> with python3, instead of just python.
> python3 works for Mac, but not Windows.

If the Python 3.10 store app is installed with all aliases enabled,
then "python", "python3", and "python3.10" all work. The standard
distribution from python.org, on the other hand, only has a "python"
executable.

From antoon.pardon at vub.be  Mon Aug 15 08:56:07 2022
From: antoon.pardon at vub.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 14:56:07 +0200
Subject: Exclude 'None' from list comprehension of dicts
In-Reply-To: <87czdf9r32.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
References: <871qtwkz0j.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
 <137bc40d-4545-226b-44d0-4770dcd8fea6@vub.be>
 <mailman.193.1659638162.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <87czdf9r32.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a389053f-42ba-1d9b-fae8-9c5a89c3a6b8@vub.be>

Op 5/08/2022 om 07:50 schreef Loris Bennett:
> Antoon Pardon<antoon.pardon at vub.be>  writes:
>
>> Op 4/08/2022 om 13:51 schreef Loris Bennett:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am constructing a list of dictionaries via the following list
>>> comprehension:
>>>
>>>     data = [get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id) for job_id in job_ids]
>>>
>>> However,
>>>
>>>     get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id)
>>>
>>> uses 'subprocess.Popen' to run an external program and this can fail.
>>> In this case, the dict should just be omitted from 'data'.
>>>
>>> I can have 'get_job_efficiency_dict' return 'None' and then run
>>>
>>>     filtered_data = list(filter(None, data))
>>>
>>> but is there a more elegant way?
>> Just wondering, why don't you return an empty dictionary in case of a failure?
>> In that case your list will be all dictionaries and empty ones will be processed
>> fast enough.
> When the list of dictionaries is processed, I would have to check each
> element to see if it is empty.  That strikes me as being less efficient
> than filtering out the empty dictionaries in one go, although obviously
> one would need to benchmark that.

I may be missing something but why would you have to check each element
to see if it is empty? What would go wrong if you just treated empty
dictionaries the same as non-empty directories?

-- 
Antoon Pardon.

From gvanem at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 15 07:58:42 2022
From: gvanem at yahoo.no (Gisle Vanem)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 13:58:42 +0200
Subject: Persistent Error: Python was not found
In-Reply-To: <CACL+1avrvcO5-=yftQ_e4igMSHprqVbPhRwhx1koqH4CrgPjfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALwmfg==UiA4qvyzc4GgOW-xM2OPfxZtMiH-=g-S5g3u-kmZQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1avrvcO5-=yftQ_e4igMSHprqVbPhRwhx1koqH4CrgPjfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5a38088c-9244-b4f0-0fa1-aabaed496824@yahoo.no>

Eryk Sun wrote:

> If the redirector app
> is run without arguments, it will open the Microsoft Store to install
> the latest version of the Python store app distribution. Currently
> that means Python 3.10.

That is true with cmd. But with a shell like 4NT, I get:
   c:\> "%LocalAppData%\Microsoft\WindowsApps\python.exe"
   4NT: (Sys) No access to the file.
    "C:\Users\gvane\AppData\Local\Microsoft\WindowsApps\python.exe"

No matter what I do with this "App Alias" setting.
What a broken and confusing design this AppX design is.


-- 
--gv

From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Mon Aug 15 10:27:56 2022
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 10:27:56 -0400
Subject: Persistent Error: Python was not found
References: <CALwmfg==UiA4qvyzc4GgOW-xM2OPfxZtMiH-=g-S5g3u-kmZQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <c18deb22-9081-fdd0-4e23-f76f54672eac@dewhirst.com.au>
 <mailman.256.1660538756.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2olkfhpkjaq29lffkb37su2pvsp6n1tfdj@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 14:38:25 +1000, Mike Dewhirst <miked at dewhirst.com.au>
declaimed the following:

>If you want to execute a python script without first opening a cmd 
>prompt, you need a bat file or shortcut which contains the command line 
>you want executed. Give that a double-click and it should also work.
>

	I've never had to do that... But I have file associations set up so
that .py is considered to be an executable file.

	Just double-clicking on the file will run it. The problem is that it
will open a command shell, run, and then close the command shell UNLESS one
explicitly codes some sort of "hold" at the end of the program

	jnk = input("Press return to exit")

	.pyw extension does not open the command shell -- but is meant for
programs that use one of the various GUI frameworks, which is probably more
than the new-comer is ready to attack.


-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
	wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

From andrea.croci at gmx.de  Mon Aug 15 02:59:06 2022
From: andrea.croci at gmx.de (Andreas Croci)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 08:59:06 +0200
Subject: Parallel(?) programming with python
References: <tcqpju$1u59$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <tdcqrq$1pos$1@gioia.aioe.org>

I would like to thank everybody who answered my question. The insight 
was very informative. This seems to be one of the few newsgroups still 
alive and kicking, with a lot of knowledgeable people taking the time to 
help others. I like how quick and easy it is to post questions and 
receive answers here as compared to web-based forums (although there are 
some disadvantages too).

I'm implementing some of the ideas received here and I will surely have 
other questions as I go. But the project will take a long time because 
I'm doing this as a hobby during my vacation, that are unfortunately 
about to end.

Thanks again, Community.

On 08.08.22 12:47, Andreas Croci wrote:
> tI would like to write a program, that reads from the network a fixed 
> amount of bytes and appends them to a list. This should happen once a 
> second.
> 
> Another part of the program should take the list, as it has been filled 
> so far, every 6 hours or so, and do some computations on the data (a FFT).
> 
> Every so often (say once a week) the list should be saved to a file, 
> shorthened in the front by so many items, and filled further with the 
> data coming fom the network. After the first saving of the whole list, 
> only the new part (the data that have come since the last saving) should 
> be appended to the file. A timestamp is in the data, so it's easy to say 
> what is new and what was already there.
> 
> I'm not sure how to do this properly: can I write a part of a program 
> that keeps doing its job (appending data to the list once every second) 
> while another part computes something on the data of the same list, 
> ignoring the new data being written?
> 
> Basically the question boils down to wether it is possible to have parts 
> of a program (could be functions) that keep doing their job while other 
> parts do something else on the same data, and what is the best way to do 
> this.


From eryksun at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 12:35:07 2022
From: eryksun at gmail.com (Eryk Sun)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 11:35:07 -0500
Subject: Persistent Error: Python was not found
In-Reply-To: <5a38088c-9244-b4f0-0fa1-aabaed496824@yahoo.no>
References: <CALwmfg==UiA4qvyzc4GgOW-xM2OPfxZtMiH-=g-S5g3u-kmZQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1avrvcO5-=yftQ_e4igMSHprqVbPhRwhx1koqH4CrgPjfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5a38088c-9244-b4f0-0fa1-aabaed496824@yahoo.no>
Message-ID: <CACL+1as_068R81kX7wMTuD5XmXgbL-hohxwe0uof67Tx0-ErwQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/15/22, Gisle Vanem via Python-list <python-list at python.org> wrote:
> Eryk Sun wrote:
>
>> If the redirector app
>> is run without arguments, it will open the Microsoft Store to install
>> the latest version of the Python store app distribution. Currently
>> that means Python 3.10.
>
> That is true with cmd. But with a shell like 4NT, I get:
>    c:\> "%LocalAppData%\Microsoft\WindowsApps\python.exe"
>    4NT: (Sys) No access to the file.
>     "C:\Users\gvane\AppData\Local\Microsoft\WindowsApps\python.exe"
>
> No matter what I do with this "App Alias" setting.
> What a broken and confusing design this AppX design is.

An app execution alias is a reparse point with the tag
IO_REPARSE_TAG_APPEXECLINK (0x8000001B). Neither the I/O manager no
any driver in the kernel supports this type of reparse point. For
better or worse, this is intentional. As such, if CreateFileW() is
called on an alias without using the flag
FILE_FLAG_OPEN_REPARSE_POINT, the attempt to traverse the link fails
with ERROR_CANT_ACCESS_FILE (1920). Note that Python's os.stat() was
updated to open the reparse point directly in this case instead of
failing. But a lot of applications, in particular non-Microsoft shells
such as MSYS bash (and apparently 4NT) haven't been updated similarly.

Even if the link could be traversed, the target file under
"%ProgramFiles%\WindowsApps" doesn't grant execute access to users
unless they have an access token that includes a WIN://SYSAPPID
attribute that corresponds to the executed app. How this works in
practice when executing an app is that CreateProcessW() handles
ERROR_CANT_ACCESS_FILE by opening the reparse point, reading the
relevant app information, and creating a custom access token that
allows it to execute the app directly via the internal equivalent of
CreateProcessAsUserW().

From eryksun at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 12:46:50 2022
From: eryksun at gmail.com (Eryk Sun)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 11:46:50 -0500
Subject: Persistent Error: Python was not found
In-Reply-To: <2olkfhpkjaq29lffkb37su2pvsp6n1tfdj@4ax.com>
References: <CALwmfg==UiA4qvyzc4GgOW-xM2OPfxZtMiH-=g-S5g3u-kmZQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <c18deb22-9081-fdd0-4e23-f76f54672eac@dewhirst.com.au>
 <mailman.256.1660538756.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <2olkfhpkjaq29lffkb37su2pvsp6n1tfdj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1avC_ubXWbN4FE39KOOzLZo849qmE6BcmaaYxgD-yqr9HQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/15/22, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> 	Just double-clicking on the file will run it. The problem is that it
> will open a command shell, run, and then close the command shell UNLESS one
> explicitly codes some sort of "hold" at the end of the program

The console window is a terminal, not a shell. If an application is
flagged as a console app, as is "python.exe", and the process doesn't
inherit a console, the initialization code in kernelbase.dll allocates
a new console session. This could be implemented by the classic
conhost.exe host, or, in Windows 11, by an openconsole.exe session
that's associated with a tab in Windows Terminal. If it's the latter,
Terminal can be configured to keep a tab open after the console
session has ended. The tab will display the exit status of the process
that allocated the console session.

From david at boomer.org  Mon Aug 15 12:30:41 2022
From: david at boomer.org (David at Booomer)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 10:30:41 -0600
Subject: Problem using cx_Freeze
In-Reply-To: <mailman.8.1660579202.9134.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.8.1660579202.9134.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <F215A38E-90EF-4F01-B05C-AACD4B2AE4D0@boomer.org>

I?m trying to use cx_Freeze (https://pypi.org/project/cx-Freeze/) in a python app but running into an error message:

AttributeError: module 'cx_Freeze' has no attribute ?BdistDMG?

I?m using Anaconda and error appears with the import command: from cx_Freeze import *

 From the terminal the command: python setup.py build gives much the same error.

I believe there is an issue specifying the output file name but don?t know how to resolve it.

Any suggestions, thanks. David



From mats at wichmann.us  Mon Aug 15 14:28:32 2022
From: mats at wichmann.us (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 12:28:32 -0600
Subject: Python getting problem of installing pyqt5
In-Reply-To: <ad11f4a8-1802-4618-beac-fe7299aeade8n@googlegroups.com>
References: <ad11f4a8-1802-4618-beac-fe7299aeade8n@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9c14d39b-5544-b7cd-1013-c765adfc09ff@wichmann.us>

On 8/13/22 09:32, Varad Gore wrote:

Looks like you have a version mismatch problem.


> Collecting pyqt5
>   Using cached PyQt5-5.15.7-cp37-abi3-win_amd64.whl (6.8 MB)
> Requirement already satisfied: PyQt5-Qt5>=5.15.0 in c:\users\gorev\appdata\local\packages\pythonsoftwarefoundation.python.3.10_qbz5n2kfra8p0\localcache\local-packages\python310\site-packages (from pyqt5) (5.15.2)
> Requirement already satisfied: PyQt5-sip<13,>=12.11 in c:\users\gorev\appdata\local\packages\pythonsoftwarefoundation.python.3.10_qbz5n2kfra8p0\localcache\local-packages\python310\site-packages (from pyqt5) (12.11.0)
> Installing collected packages: pyqt5
>   WARNING: The scripts pylupdate5.exe, pyrcc5.exe and pyuic5.exe are installed in 'C:\Users\gorev\AppData\Local\Packages\PythonSoftwareFoundation.Python.3.10_qbz5n2kfra8p0\LocalCache\local-packages\Python310\Scripts' which is not on PATH.
>   Consider adding this directory to PATH or, if you prefer to suppress this warning, use --no-warn-script-location.
> Successfully installed pyqt5-5.15.7

So far, so good...  but then it goes bad.

> (venv) PS C:\Users\gorev\OneDrive\Desktop\Medidost> ^C
> (venv) PS C:\Users\gorev\OneDrive\Desktop\Medidost> pip install pyqt5-tools 
> Collecting pyqt5-tools
>   Using cached pyqt5_tools-5.15.4.3.2-py3-none-any.whl (29 kB)
> Collecting pyqt5==5.15.4
>   Using cached PyQt5-5.15.4.tar.gz (3.3 MB)
>   Installing build dependencies ... done
>   Getting requirements to build wheel ... done
>   Preparing metadata (pyproject.toml) ... error
>   error: subprocess-exited-with-error
> 
>   ? Preparing metadata (pyproject.toml) did not run successfully.

This apparently depends on a *different* version of pyqt5 which does not
have a compatible binary (compiled) wheel available, so the installer
process is going to try to build it for you.  This rarely works on
Windows - you usually have to have some very precise setup - that is,
you have to be *planning* to build it, the convenience
build-because-didn't-find-wheel is very likely doomed to failure for
anything complex.

The pyqt5-tools package has not been updated for a year now, several
drops of pyqt5 have happened since, according to the history on
pypi.org.  I'm assuming -tools are pnned to the same version of pyqt5,
but this is only a guess, could be some other mismatch.


Looks like there's an issue filed on this:

https://github.com/altendky/pyqt-tools/issues/106


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Mon Aug 15 16:21:05 2022
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 16:21:05 -0400
Subject: Python getting problem of installing pyqt5
References: <ad11f4a8-1802-4618-beac-fe7299aeade8n@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hq9lfhd45nd2uhlhktck23qon9vakc4dcr@4ax.com>

On Sat, 13 Aug 2022 08:32:19 -0700 (PDT), Varad Gore <gorevaradv at gmail.com>
declaimed the following:

>Collecting pyqt5
>  Using cached PyQt5-5.15.7-cp37-abi3-win_amd64.whl (6.8 MB)

	Where did this one come from? The "cp37" seems to imply it is a Python
3.7 variant.

	You also didn't include the command line that started this sequence...

>(venv) PS C:\Users\gorev\OneDrive\Desktop\Medidost> ^C

... was it also run from inside the virtual environment?

>(venv) PS C:\Users\gorev\OneDrive\Desktop\Medidost> pip install pyqt5-tools 

	Personally, anytime I see OneDrive involved, my first thought is to
blame it (It plays hob with multi-file relational databases, such as Visual
FoxPro used by the TMG genealogy program -- VFP opens/closes table files
(there are three per table) on an as-needed scheme; OneDrive sees a
modified file and locks it while synching it to the cloud -- and that
blocks VFP from being able to do the next update, and often causing
corruption of the database when the three table files become
unsynchronized).

	However... as a test (note: I have Python (an older ActiveState build)
installed "for all users", and not in a user specific install.

C:\Users\Wulfraed>pip install pyqt5_tools
Collecting pyqt5_tools
  Downloading pyqt5_tools-5.15.4.3.2-py3-none-any.whl (29 kB)
Collecting pyqt5-plugins<5.15.4.3,>=5.15.4.2.2
  Downloading pyqt5_plugins-5.15.4.2.2-cp38-cp38-win_amd64.whl (67 kB)
     |????????????????????????????????| 67 kB 988 kB/s
Collecting python-dotenv
  Downloading python_dotenv-0.20.0-py3-none-any.whl (17 kB)
Collecting pyqt5==5.15.4
  Downloading PyQt5-5.15.4-cp36.cp37.cp38.cp39-none-win_amd64.whl (6.8 MB)
     |????????????????????????????????| 6.8 MB 541 kB/s

>>>NOTE the file name for PyQt5

Requirement already satisfied: click in c:\python38\lib\site-packages (from
pyqt5_tools) (7.1.2)
Collecting qt5-tools<5.15.2.2,>=5.15.2.1.2
  Downloading qt5_tools-5.15.2.1.2-py3-none-any.whl (13 kB)
Collecting PyQt5-Qt5>=5.15
  Downloading PyQt5_Qt5-5.15.2-py3-none-win_amd64.whl (50.1 MB)
     |????????????????????????????????| 50.1 MB 25 kB/s
Requirement already satisfied: PyQt5-sip<13,>=12.8 in
c:\python38\lib\site-packages (from pyqt5==5.15.4->pyqt5_tools) (12.8.1)
Collecting qt5-applications<5.15.2.3,>=5.15.2.2.2
  Downloading qt5_applications-5.15.2.2.2-py3-none-win_amd64.whl (60.9 MB)
     |????????????????????????????????| 60.9 MB 5.5 kB/s
Installing collected packages: PyQt5-Qt5, pyqt5, qt5-applications,
qt5-tools, pyqt5-plugins, python-dotenv, pyqt5-tools
  Attempting uninstall: pyqt5
    Found existing installation: PyQt5 5.15.1
    Uninstalling PyQt5-5.15.1:
      Successfully uninstalled PyQt5-5.15.1
Successfully installed PyQt5-Qt5-5.15.2 pyqt5-5.15.4
pyqt5-plugins-5.15.4.2.2 pyqt5-tools-5.15.4.3.2 python-dotenv-0.20.0
qt5-applications-5.15.2.2.2 qt5-tools-5.15.2.1.2

C:\Users\Wulfraed>



-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
	wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

From jschwar at sbcglobal.net  Mon Aug 15 17:45:39 2022
From: jschwar at sbcglobal.net (jschwar at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 16:45:39 -0500
Subject: Problem using cx_Freeze
In-Reply-To: <F215A38E-90EF-4F01-B05C-AACD4B2AE4D0@boomer.org>
References: <mailman.8.1660579202.9134.python-list@python.org>
 <F215A38E-90EF-4F01-B05C-AACD4B2AE4D0@boomer.org>
Message-ID: <000601d8b0f0$5d4b5f90$17e21eb0$@sbcglobal.net>

I see a class called BdistDMG in the module called bdist_mac.py.  Did you try importing that from cx_freeze?

-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list <python-list-bounces+jschwar=sbcglobal.net at python.org> On Behalf Of David at Booomer
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2022 11:31 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Problem using cx_Freeze

I?m trying to use cx_Freeze (https://pypi.org/project/cx-Freeze/) in a python app but running into an error message:

AttributeError: module 'cx_Freeze' has no attribute ?BdistDMG?

I?m using Anaconda and error appears with the import command: from cx_Freeze import *

 From the terminal the command: python setup.py build gives much the same error.

I believe there is an issue specifying the output file name but don?t know how to resolve it.

Any suggestions, thanks. David


-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From PythonList at DancesWithMice.info  Mon Aug 15 18:20:29 2022
From: PythonList at DancesWithMice.info (dn)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2022 10:20:29 +1200
Subject: Exclude 'None' from list comprehension of dicts
In-Reply-To: <a389053f-42ba-1d9b-fae8-9c5a89c3a6b8@vub.be>
References: <871qtwkz0j.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
 <137bc40d-4545-226b-44d0-4770dcd8fea6@vub.be>
 <mailman.193.1659638162.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <87czdf9r32.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
 <a389053f-42ba-1d9b-fae8-9c5a89c3a6b8@vub.be>
Message-ID: <9ce76cf6-0678-439d-3434-26e3a4d40aa3@DancesWithMice.info>

On 16/08/2022 00.56, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 5/08/2022 om 07:50 schreef Loris Bennett:
>> Antoon Pardon<antoon.pardon at vub.be>? writes:
>>
>>> Op 4/08/2022 om 13:51 schreef Loris Bennett:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I am constructing a list of dictionaries via the following list
>>>> comprehension:
>>>>
>>>> ??? data = [get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id) for job_id in job_ids]
>>>>
>>>> However,
>>>>
>>>> ??? get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id)
>>>>
>>>> uses 'subprocess.Popen' to run an external program and this can fail.
>>>> In this case, the dict should just be omitted from 'data'.
>>>>
>>>> I can have 'get_job_efficiency_dict' return 'None' and then run
>>>>
>>>> ??? filtered_data = list(filter(None, data))
>>>>
>>>> but is there a more elegant way?
>>> Just wondering, why don't you return an empty dictionary in case of a
>>> failure?
>>> In that case your list will be all dictionaries and empty ones will
>>> be processed
>>> fast enough.
>> When the list of dictionaries is processed, I would have to check each
>> element to see if it is empty.? That strikes me as being less efficient
>> than filtering out the empty dictionaries in one go, although obviously
>> one would need to benchmark that.
> 
> I may be missing something but why would you have to check each element
> to see if it is empty? What would go wrong if you just treated empty
> dictionaries the same as non-empty directories?

'Truthiness':-

>>> bool( {} )
False
>>> bool( { "a":1 } )
True

-- 
Regards,
=dn

From jschwar at sbcglobal.net  Mon Aug 15 19:51:02 2022
From: jschwar at sbcglobal.net (Jim Schwartz)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:51:02 -0500
Subject: Problem using cx_Freeze
In-Reply-To: <F215A38E-90EF-4F01-B05C-AACD4B2AE4D0@boomer.org>
References: <F215A38E-90EF-4F01-B05C-AACD4B2AE4D0@boomer.org>
Message-ID: <1D0DEA52-E8D7-42EF-8CB5-07EADDB1ED8A@sbcglobal.net>

This link covers how to use BDist_dmg. 

https://cx-freeze.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup_script.html

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 15, 2022, at 12:11 PM, David at Booomer <david at boomer.org> wrote:
> 
> ?I?m trying to use cx_Freeze (https://pypi.org/project/cx-Freeze/) in a python app but running into an error message:
> 
> AttributeError: module 'cx_Freeze' has no attribute ?BdistDMG?
> 
> I?m using Anaconda and error appears with the import command: from cx_Freeze import *
> 
> From the terminal the command: python setup.py build gives much the same error.
> 
> I believe there is an issue specifying the output file name but don?t know how to resolve it.
> 
> Any suggestions, thanks. David
> 
> 
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

From david at boomer.org  Mon Aug 15 20:00:48 2022
From: david at boomer.org (David at Booomer)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:00:48 -0600
Subject: Problem using cx_Freeze
In-Reply-To: <1D0DEA52-E8D7-42EF-8CB5-07EADDB1ED8A@sbcglobal.net>
References: <F215A38E-90EF-4F01-B05C-AACD4B2AE4D0@boomer.org>
 <1D0DEA52-E8D7-42EF-8CB5-07EADDB1ED8A@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <C1F3654D-18CB-4D8C-AF77-5B61AC678112@boomer.org>

Hi Jim

Thanks for your suggestions.

I changed

from cx_Freeze import *

to

from cx_Freeze import setup, Executable

And no longer get the BdistDMG error

?
I had found the page
https://cx-freeze.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup_script.html
But hadn?t tried the setup, Executable option in the from statement
?

However I now get an error

init() takes from 2 to 12 positional arguments but 14 were given

I found a couple instances of init in two .py files that were part of the whole.

One .py file
def __init__(self):

Another .py file
class Aboutwindow(QtGui.QMainWindow, Ui_Aboutwindow):
    def __init__(self,parent=None):
        QtGui.QMainWindow.__init__(self,parent)
?
class Main(QtGui.QMainWindow):

    def __init__(self):
        QtGui.QMainWindow.__init__(self)

When searching for this error the answers found suggested including self in the init parameter list but the code already has self.

Thanks, David

> On Aug 15, 2022, at 5:51 PM, Jim Schwartz <jschwar at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> This link covers how to use BDist_dmg. 
> 
> https://cx-freeze.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup_script.html
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 15, 2022, at 12:11 PM, David at Booomer <david at boomer.org> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I?m trying to use cx_Freeze (https://pypi.org/project/cx-Freeze/) in a python app but running into an error message:
>> 
>> AttributeError: module 'cx_Freeze' has no attribute ?BdistDMG?
>> 
>> I?m using Anaconda and error appears with the import command: from cx_Freeze import *
>> 
>> From the terminal the command: python setup.py build gives much the same error.
>> 
>> I believe there is an issue specifying the output file name but don?t know how to resolve it.
>> 
>> Any suggestions, thanks. David
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Mon Aug 15 18:45:05 2022
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:45:05 -0400
Subject: Problem using cx_Freeze
References: <mailman.8.1660579202.9134.python-list@python.org>
 <F215A38E-90EF-4F01-B05C-AACD4B2AE4D0@boomer.org>
 <mailman.265.1660583254.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <epilfh9socpvujkka67fcl14g2ei6fqo69@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 10:30:41 -0600, David at Booomer <david at boomer.org>
declaimed the following:

>I?m trying to use cx_Freeze (https://pypi.org/project/cx-Freeze/) in a python app but running into an error message:
>
>AttributeError: module 'cx_Freeze' has no attribute ?BdistDMG?

	What operating system? BdistDMG appears to be a Macintosh OS module --
something to do with disk images

https://cx-freeze.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup_script.html
"""
On Windows, you can build a simple installer containing all the files
cx_Freeze includes for your application, by running the setup script as:

    python setup.py bdist_msi

On Mac OS X, you can use bdist_dmg to build a Mac disk image.
"""

	Note the command syntax and last line...


-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
	wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Mon Aug 15 22:18:54 2022
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 22:18:54 -0400
Subject: Problem using cx_Freeze
References: <F215A38E-90EF-4F01-B05C-AACD4B2AE4D0@boomer.org>
 <1D0DEA52-E8D7-42EF-8CB5-07EADDB1ED8A@sbcglobal.net>
 <C1F3654D-18CB-4D8C-AF77-5B61AC678112@boomer.org>
 <mailman.270.1660608114.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b0vlfhpmrmnl1clohm5mjfhj5jhi4bqkl6@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:00:48 -0600, David at Booomer <david at boomer.org>
declaimed the following:


>However I now get an error
>
>init() takes from 2 to 12 positional arguments but 14 were given
>
>I found a couple instances of init in two .py files that were part of the whole.
>
>One .py file
>def __init__(self):
>

	Please cut&paste the TEXT of the console where the errors are displayed
-- don't paraphrase!

	init() is NOT the same as __init__()

	WHAT "One .py file"? This is a meaningless bit of information.

	The most likely __init__() involved is the one where
cx_Freeze.Executable is instantiated.
https://cx-freeze.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup_script.html#cx-freeze-executable
shows 11 parameters (and "self" would make the 12th).





-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
	wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

From antoon.pardon at vub.be  Tue Aug 16 15:31:56 2022
From: antoon.pardon at vub.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2022 21:31:56 +0200
Subject: Exclude 'None' from list comprehension of dicts
In-Reply-To: <9ce76cf6-0678-439d-3434-26e3a4d40aa3@DancesWithMice.info>
References: <871qtwkz0j.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
 <137bc40d-4545-226b-44d0-4770dcd8fea6@vub.be>
 <mailman.193.1659638162.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <87czdf9r32.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
 <a389053f-42ba-1d9b-fae8-9c5a89c3a6b8@vub.be>
 <9ce76cf6-0678-439d-3434-26e3a4d40aa3@DancesWithMice.info>
Message-ID: <95d9a247-42e2-f5b8-6df1-b5fc70b79a97@vub.be>



Op 16/08/2022 om 00:20 schreef dn:
> On 16/08/2022 00.56, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> Op 5/08/2022 om 07:50 schreef Loris Bennett:
>>> Antoon Pardon<antoon.pardon at vub.be> ? writes:
>>>
>>>> Op 4/08/2022 om 13:51 schreef Loris Bennett:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am constructing a list of dictionaries via the following list
>>>>> comprehension:
>>>>>
>>>>>  ??? data = [get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id) for job_id in job_ids]
>>>>>
>>>>> However,
>>>>>
>>>>>  ??? get_job_efficiency_dict(job_id)
>>>>>
>>>>> uses 'subprocess.Popen' to run an external program and this can fail.
>>>>> In this case, the dict should just be omitted from 'data'.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can have 'get_job_efficiency_dict' return 'None' and then run
>>>>>
>>>>>  ??? filtered_data = list(filter(None, data))
>>>>>
>>>>> but is there a more elegant way?
>>>> Just wondering, why don't you return an empty dictionary in case of a
>>>> failure?
>>>> In that case your list will be all dictionaries and empty ones will
>>>> be processed
>>>> fast enough.
>>> When the list of dictionaries is processed, I would have to check each
>>> element to see if it is empty.? That strikes me as being less efficient
>>> than filtering out the empty dictionaries in one go, although obviously
>>> one would need to benchmark that.
>> I may be missing something but why would you have to check each element
>> to see if it is empty? What would go wrong if you just treated empty
>> dictionaries the same as non-empty directories?
> 'Truthiness':-

In what way is that relevant in this case?

-- 
Antoon Pardon

From drsalists at gmail.com  Tue Aug 16 17:03:42 2022
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2022 14:03:42 -0700
Subject: setup.py + cython == chicken and the egg problem
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_q=kO9BS-pani1gv=z-wPiHg-JShn2Rpif+1-j7epXa8A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks.

I'm attempting to package up a python package that uses Cython.

Rather than build binaries for everything under the sun, I've been focusing
on including the .pyx file and running cython on it at install time.  This
requires a C compiler, but I'm OK with that.

However, when I try to install the package from test.pypi.org, I get:
$ python3 -m pip install -i https://test.pypi.org/simple/ pyx-treap
below cmd output started 2022 Tue Aug 16 01:55:16 PM PDT
Looking in indexes: https://test.pypi.org/simple/
Collecting pyx-treap
  Downloading
https://test-files.pythonhosted.org/packages/3a/41/af5360934adccfc086a39e1f720323895144b53454ff6dacc0f06267db55/pyx_treap-2.0.15.tar.gz
(125 kB)

 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
125.9/125.9 kB 1.9 MB/s eta 0:00:00
  Installing build dependencies ... error
  error: subprocess-exited-with-error

  ?? pip subprocess to install build dependencies did not run successfully.
  ?? exit code: 1
  ????> [3 lines of output]
      Looking in indexes: https://test.pypi.org/simple/
      ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement
setuptools (from versions: none)
      ERROR: No matching distribution found for setuptools
      [end of output]

  note: This error originates from a subprocess, and is likely not a
problem with pip.
error: subprocess-exited-with-error

?? pip subprocess to install build dependencies did not run successfully.
?? exit code: 1
????> See above for output.

note: This error originates from a subprocess, and is likely not a problem
with pip.

But I analyzed the pip install with strace, and found no interesting
exec's, and no interesting "= E" patterns.

I've tried quite an assortment of things to get past this, including most
of those at:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4996589/in-setup-py-or-pip-requirements-file-how-to-control-order-of-installing-package
Except the one at:
https://stackoverflow.com/a/54269307/1084684
...because I was having a "there must be a better way" reaction to it.

/Is/ there a better way?

There're all these newer ways of doing packaging - surely one of them
addresses this problem?

The code I'm trying to package is at:
https://stromberg.dnsalias.org/svn/treap/trunk/cython

BTW, the pure python version works fine, and the cython version works too
as long as you preinstall cython - but I don't want users to have to know
that :)

Thanks!

From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Aug 16 17:07:38 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 07:07:38 +1000
Subject: setup.py + cython == chicken and the egg problem
In-Reply-To: <CAGGBd_q=kO9BS-pani1gv=z-wPiHg-JShn2Rpif+1-j7epXa8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGGBd_q=kO9BS-pani1gv=z-wPiHg-JShn2Rpif+1-j7epXa8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmocsieMCDNeXiv5nOjPFi5MtMkw2e8a_8sSbboxM0X5mg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 at 07:05, Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi folks.
>
> I'm attempting to package up a python package that uses Cython.
>
> Rather than build binaries for everything under the sun, I've been focusing
> on including the .pyx file and running cython on it at install time.  This
> requires a C compiler, but I'm OK with that.
>

Is keeping the cythonized file an option? That would still require a C
compiler, but wouldn't require Cython.

ChrisA

From drsalists at gmail.com  Tue Aug 16 17:21:25 2022
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2022 14:21:25 -0700
Subject: setup.py + cython == chicken and the egg problem
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmocsieMCDNeXiv5nOjPFi5MtMkw2e8a_8sSbboxM0X5mg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGGBd_q=kO9BS-pani1gv=z-wPiHg-JShn2Rpif+1-j7epXa8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmocsieMCDNeXiv5nOjPFi5MtMkw2e8a_8sSbboxM0X5mg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_o579x-QiZb8STWNiMUQrs3VDd+PMCkVc1_39OAnCMO2w@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 2:08 PM Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 at 07:05, Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi folks.
> >
> > I'm attempting to package up a python package that uses Cython.
> >
> > Rather than build binaries for everything under the sun, I've been
> focusing
> > on including the .pyx file and running cython on it at install time.
> This
> > requires a C compiler, but I'm OK with that.
> >
>
> Is keeping the cythonized file an option? That would still require a C
> compiler, but wouldn't require Cython.
>
> ChrisA
>

That comes under "one of the many things I tried"; it seemed like some of
the code in the .c was tailored to the specific version of python it was
being installed on or something.

But if someone has seen this work well, I'm more than open to trying it
again.

From charan9182749076 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 17 06:54:03 2022
From: charan9182749076 at gmail.com (i am unable to use python )
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 16:24:03 +0530
Subject: not able to use python
Message-ID: <8728ABB4-CA54-4208-B48B-BE8E30F704C7@hxcore.ol>

   ?

   ?

   Sent from [1]Mail for Windows

   ?

References

   Visible links
   1. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986

From auriocus at gmx.de  Wed Aug 17 01:45:49 2022
From: auriocus at gmx.de (Christian Gollwitzer)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 07:45:49 +0200
Subject: setup.py + cython == chicken and the egg problem
In-Reply-To: <mailman.272.1660683836.20444.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAGGBd_q=kO9BS-pani1gv=z-wPiHg-JShn2Rpif+1-j7epXa8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.272.1660683836.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tdhvah$cfkd$1@dont-email.me>

Am 16.08.22 um 23:03 schrieb Dan Stromberg:
> I'm attempting to package up a python package that uses Cython.
> 
> Rather than build binaries for everything under the sun, I've been focusing
> on including the .pyx file and running cython on it at install time.  This
> requires a C compiler, but I'm OK with that.
>
> However, when I try to install the package from test.pypi.org, I get:
> $ python3 -m pip install -i https://test.pypi.org/simple/ pyx-treap
> below cmd output started 2022 Tue Aug 16 01:55:16 PM PDT
> Looking in indexes: https://test.pypi.org/simple/
> Collecting pyx-treap
>    Downloading
> https://test-files.pythonhosted.org/packages/3a/41/af5360934adccfc086a39e1f720323895144b53454ff6dacc0f06267db55/pyx_treap-2.0.15.tar.gz
> (125 kB)
> 
>   ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
> 125.9/125.9 kB 1.9 MB/s eta 0:00:00
>    Installing build dependencies ... error
>    error: subprocess-exited-with-error
> 
>    ?? pip subprocess to install build dependencies did not run successfully.
>    ?? exit code: 1
>    ????> [3 lines of output]
>        Looking in indexes: https://test.pypi.org/simple/
>        ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement
> setuptools (from versions: none)
>        ERROR: No matching distribution found for setuptools
>        [end of output]
> 
>    note: This error originates from a subprocess, and is likely not a
> problem with pip.
> error: subprocess-exited-with-error


I looked at your code and I think you are trying too hard. As far as I 
understand, you need Cython to be installed before the build process 
begins. Your entry in pyproject.toml should take care of that.
But you also have these lines in your setup.py

subprocess.check_call('%s -m pip install cython' % (sys.executable, ), 
shell=True)
subprocess.check_call('%s -m cython pyx_treap.pyx' % (sys.executable, ), 
shell=True)

The first one calls out to pip while pip is already running, I'm not 
sure that this will work, but judging from the error message it is 
looking for the requirements also from test.pypi. Maybe this is the 
reason that it fails (the error message says that it can't find 
setuptools). So jut delete this line and it might already work

The second line, which compiles the Cython code, also runs *at every 
invocation of setup.py*, even if you'd do just

	python3 setup.py --help

It may still work, but the correct way to do it is to create a build 
extension for setuptools. In my project you can see this here:

	https://github.com/j-from-b/CDEF/blob/main/setup.py#L88

OTOH, I would be surprised if Cython did not have this already, indeed 
you imported cythonize from Cython.Build. So maybe just deleting these 
two lines and it might work?

	Christian

From shailajapatil45 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 17 04:05:19 2022
From: shailajapatil45 at gmail.com (Coder)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 01:05:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Getting an Error TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for -=:
 'Retry' and 'int'
Message-ID: <bd246f37-601d-4d62-986c-dd9d8f15cb5en@googlegroups.com>

 sudo pip install  pyro4
Collecting pyro4
  Downloading https://files.pythonhosted.org/packages/70/e3/8c4e0d24b46fbf02e6b2dc2da5d18f0c73cfd343a1fb01ae64c788c20e56/Pyro4-4.82-py2.py3-none-any.whl (89kB)
    100% |????????????????????????????????| 92kB 7.3MB/s 
Collecting selectors34; python_version < "3.4" (from pyro4)
  Downloading https://files.pythonhosted.org/packages/13/25/4f4fa70ab23ad6263fe59cedf9dcd3ef71aa7f99c556c5e4c6435829e22d/selectors34-1.2-py2.py3-none-any.whl
Collecting serpent<1.30,>=1.27; python_version < "3.2" (from pyro4)
Exception:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pip/basecommand.py", line 209, in main
    status = self.run(options, args)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pip/commands/install.py", line 328, in run
    wb.build(autobuilding=True)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pip/wheel.py", line 748, in build
    self.requirement_set.prepare_files(self.finder)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pip/req/req_set.py", line 360, in prepare_files
    ignore_dependencies=self.ignore_dependencies))
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pip/req/req_set.py", line 512, in _prepare_file
    finder, self.upgrade, require_hashes)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pip/req/req_install.py", line 273, in populate_link
    self.link = finder.find_requirement(self, upgrade)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pip/index.py", line 442, in find_requirement
    all_candidates = self.find_all_candidates(req.name)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pip/index.py", line 400, in find_all_candidates
    for page in self._get_pages(url_locations, project_name):
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pip/index.py", line 545, in _get_pages
    page = self._get_page(location)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pip/index.py", line 648, in _get_page
    return HTMLPage.get_page(link, session=self.session)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pip/index.py", line 757, in get_page
    "Cache-Control": "max-age=600",
  File "/usr/share/python-wheels/requests-2.9.1-py2.py3-none-any.whl/requests/sessions.py", line 492, in get
    return self.request('GET', url, **kwargs)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pip/download.py", line 378, in request
    return super(PipSession, self).request(method, url, *args, **kwargs)
  File "/usr/share/python-wheels/requests-2.9.1-py2.py3-none-any.whl/requests/sessions.py", line 480, in request
    resp = self.send(prep, **send_kwargs)
  File "/usr/share/python-wheels/requests-2.9.1-py2.py3-none-any.whl/requests/sessions.py", line 588, in send
    r = adapter.send(request, **kwargs)
  File "/usr/share/python-wheels/CacheControl-0.11.5-py2.py3-none-any.whl/cachecontrol/adapter.py", line 46, in send
    resp = super(CacheControlAdapter, self).send(request, **kw)
  File "/usr/share/python-wheels/requests-2.9.1-py2.py3-none-any.whl/requests/adapters.py", line 376, in send
    timeout=timeout
  File "/usr/share/python-wheels/urllib3-1.13.1-py2.py3-none-any.whl/urllib3/connectionpool.py", line 610, in urlopen
    _stacktrace=sys.exc_info()[2])
  File "/usr/share/python-wheels/urllib3-1.13.1-py2.py3-none-any.whl/urllib3/util/retry.py", line 238, in increment
    total -= 1
TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for -=: 'Retry' and 'int'
You are using pip version 8.1.1, however version 22.2.2 is available.
You should consider upgrading via the 'pip install --upgrade pip' command.



I tried removing pip and reinstalling it again.

still facing same issue.

From toby at tobiah.org  Wed Aug 17 11:18:57 2022
From: toby at tobiah.org (Tobiah)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 08:18:57 -0700
Subject: UTF-8 and latin1
Message-ID: <tdj0t2$19v7$1@gioia.aioe.org>

I get data from various sources; client emails, spreadsheets, and
data from web applications.  I find that I can do some_string.decode('latin1')
to get unicode that I can use with xlsxwriter,
or put <meta charset="latin1"> in the header of a web page to display
European characters correctly.  But normally UTF-8 is recommended as
the encoding to use today.  latin1 works correctly more often when I
am using data from the wild.  It's frustrating that I have to play
a guessing game to figure out how to use incoming text.   I'm just wondering
if there are any thoughts.  What if we just globally decided to use utf-8?
Could that ever happen?


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Wed Aug 17 11:48:53 2022
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 15:48:53 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: UTF-8 and latin1
References: <tdj0t2$19v7$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <slrntfq3f5.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>

On 2022-08-17, Tobiah <toby at tobiah.org> wrote:
> I get data from various sources; client emails, spreadsheets, and
> data from web applications.  I find that I can do some_string.decode('latin1')
> to get unicode that I can use with xlsxwriter,
> or put <meta charset="latin1"> in the header of a web page to display
> European characters correctly.  But normally UTF-8 is recommended as
> the encoding to use today.  latin1 works correctly more often when I
> am using data from the wild.  It's frustrating that I have to play
> a guessing game to figure out how to use incoming text.   I'm just wondering
> if there are any thoughts.  What if we just globally decided to use utf-8?
> Could that ever happen?

That has already been decided, as much as it ever can be. UTF-8 is
essentially always the correct encoding to use on output, and almost
always the correct encoding to assume on input absent any explicit
indication of another encoding. (e.g. the HTML "standard" says that
all HTML files must be UTF-8.)

If you are finding that your specific sources are often encoded with
latin-1 instead then you could always try something like:

    try:
        text = data.decode('utf-8')
    except UnicodeDecodeError:
        text = data.decode('latin-1')

(I think latin-1 text will almost always fail to be decoded as utf-8,
so this would work fairly reliably assuming those are the only two
encodings you see.)

Or you could use something fancy like https://pypi.org/project/chardet/


From ikorot01 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 17 13:35:28 2022
From: ikorot01 at gmail.com (Igor Korot)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 12:35:28 -0500
Subject: not able to use python
In-Reply-To: <8728ABB4-CA54-4208-B48B-BE8E30F704C7@hxcore.ol>
References: <8728ABB4-CA54-4208-B48B-BE8E30F704C7@hxcore.ol>
Message-ID: <CA+FnnTyfjmW3OyHqDsOK+f3fNE1dTJiOWBKEWmJ7rd_PuKWqZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 12:20 PM i am unable to use python
<charan9182749076 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>

AND I"M UNABLE TO SEE ANYTHING IN YOUR MESSAGE...

THANK YOU.

>
>
>
>    Sent from [1]Mail for Windows
>
>
>
> References
>
>    Visible links
>    1. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

From dieter at handshake.de  Wed Aug 17 13:43:15 2022
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 19:43:15 +0200
Subject: setup.py + cython == chicken and the egg problem
In-Reply-To: <CAGGBd_q=kO9BS-pani1gv=z-wPiHg-JShn2Rpif+1-j7epXa8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGGBd_q=kO9BS-pani1gv=z-wPiHg-JShn2Rpif+1-j7epXa8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <25341.10419.847158.745024@ixdm.fritz.box>

Dan Stromberg wrote at 2022-8-16 14:03 -0700:
> ...
>I'm attempting to package up a python package that uses Cython.
> ...
>  Installing build dependencies ... error
>  error: subprocess-exited-with-error
>
>  ?? pip subprocess to install build dependencies did not run successfully.
>  ?? exit code: 1
>  ????> [3 lines of output]
>      Looking in indexes: https://test.pypi.org/simple/
>      ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement
>setuptools (from versions: none)
>      ERROR: No matching distribution found for setuptools

The message tells you that there is a `setuptools` problem.
I would start to locate all `setuptools` requirement locations.


I am using `cython` for the package `dm.xmlsec.binding`.
I have not observed nor heard of a problem similar to yours
(but I have never tried `test.pypi.org`).

From david at boomer.org  Wed Aug 17 14:09:14 2022
From: david at boomer.org (David at Booomer)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 12:09:14 -0600
Subject: Problem using cx_Freeze
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1660752002.28462.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.7.1660752002.28462.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <EC789AA9-D716-4D36-B101-03D7D41135CA@boomer.org>

Hi Dennis

Thank you for your reply. I?m am trying to get LaTex-to-Speech (https://github.com/SGanesh19/LaTeX-to-Speech) to run as an accessibility aid, converting equations into speech. I haven?t used cx_Freeze before so stumbling somewhat.

The error returned is

  File "/Users/duser/Documents/Win_ShareFolder/LaTeX-to-Speech-master/setup.py", line 9, in <module>
    Executable(
TypeError: __init__() takes from 2 to 12 positional arguments but 14 were given

The setup.py file is currently

import cx_Freeze
# from cx_Freeze import *
from cx_Freeze import setup, Executable

setup(
    name="Latex2Speech",
    options = {'build_exe':{'packages':['gtts','pyglet','PyQt4']}},
    executables=[
        Executable(
            "prjui.py","Maiui.py","about.py","dict.py","geometry.py","getEquation.py",
            "gtrail.py","main.py","matchingstring.py","producelatex.py","readfile.py",
            "separete.py","speak.py",
        )
    ]
)

I am/was worried about the trailing ?,' after ',"speak.py?,? <- but deleting it or moving it after the ] didn?t help. Adding base = None also didn?t help.

Searching for ?__init__(' in the 13 *.py files returned five lines in two files (algorithm.py and prjui.py). As mentioned searching for this error only produced mention of adding self which is in these lines already. Previously I had search for __init__() which returned no lines due to the closing ).

I had visited the page you provided (https://cx-freeze.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup_script.html#cx-freeze-executable) but didn?t noticed the 11 plus self as 12 arguments.

Thanks again for any suggestions.

David


> From: Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com>
> Subject: Re: Problem using cx_Freeze
> Date: August 15, 2022 at 8:18:54 PM MDT
> To: python-list at python.org
> 
> 
> On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:00:48 -0600, David at Booomer <david at boomer.org>
> declaimed the following:
> 
> 
>> However I now get an error
>> 
>> init() takes from 2 to 12 positional arguments but 14 were given
>> 
>> I found a couple instances of init in two .py files that were part of the whole.
>> 
>> One .py file
>> def __init__(self):
>> 
> 
> 	Please cut&paste the TEXT of the console where the errors are displayed
> -- don't paraphrase!
> 
> 	init() is NOT the same as __init__()
> 
> 	WHAT "One .py file"? This is a meaningless bit of information.
> 
> 	The most likely __init__() involved is the one where
> cx_Freeze.Executable is instantiated.
> https://cx-freeze.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup_script.html#cx-freeze-executable
> shows 11 parameters (and "self" would make the 12th).
> 
> -- 
> 	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
> 	wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

From dciprus at cisco.com  Wed Aug 17 14:27:12 2022
From: dciprus at cisco.com (Dan Ciprus (dciprus))
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 18:27:12 +0000
Subject: not able to use python
In-Reply-To: <CA+FnnTyfjmW3OyHqDsOK+f3fNE1dTJiOWBKEWmJ7rd_PuKWqZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8728ABB4-CA54-4208-B48B-BE8E30F704C7@hxcore.ol>
 <CA+FnnTyfjmW3OyHqDsOK+f3fNE1dTJiOWBKEWmJ7rd_PuKWqZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20220817182709.wnjsjzujxenbvuac@carbon>

Those people keep me on my toes every time I look at such a message :-/.


On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 12:35:28PM -0500, Igor Korot wrote:
>Hi,
>
>On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 12:20 PM i am unable to use python
><charan9182749076 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>
>AND I"M UNABLE TO SEE ANYTHING IN YOUR MESSAGE...
>
>THANK YOU.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>    Sent from [1]Mail for Windows
>>
>>
>>
>> References
>>
>>    Visible links
>>    1. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
>> --
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>-- 
>https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
Daniel Ciprus                              .:|:.:|:.
CONSULTING ENGINEER.CUSTOMER DELIVERY   Cisco Systems Inc.
dciprus at cisco.com
tel: +1-703-484-0205
mob: +1-540-223-7098

[ curl -L http://git.io/unix ]
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From toby at tobiah.org  Wed Aug 17 13:55:11 2022
From: toby at tobiah.org (Tobiah)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 10:55:11 -0700
Subject: UTF-8 and latin1
References: <tdj0t2$19v7$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <encoding-20220817163204@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <tdja1v$1c06$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On 8/17/22 08:33, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Tobiah <toby at tobiah.org> writes:
>> I get data from various sources; client emails, spreadsheets, and
>> data from web applications.  I find that I can do some_string.decode('latin1')
> 
>    Strings have no "decode" method. ("bytes" objects do.)

I'm using 2.7.  Maybe that's why.
  

Toby

From toby at tobiah.org  Wed Aug 17 14:14:42 2022
From: toby at tobiah.org (Tobiah)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 11:14:42 -0700
Subject: UTF-8 and latin1
References: <tdj0t2$19v7$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfq3f5.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <tdjb6i$1t8p$1@gioia.aioe.org>

> That has already been decided, as much as it ever can be. UTF-8 is
> essentially always the correct encoding to use on output, and almost
> always the correct encoding to assume on input absent any explicit
> indication of another encoding. (e.g. the HTML "standard" says that
> all HTML files must be UTF-8.)

I got an email from a client with blast text that
was in French with stuff like: Montr?al, Queb?c.
latin1 did the trick.
Also, whenever I get a spreadsheet from a client and save as .csv,
or take browser data through PHP, it always seems
to work with latin1, but not UTF-8.



From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Wed Aug 17 15:36:10 2022
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 15:36:10 -0400
Subject: Problem using cx_Freeze
References: <mailman.7.1660752002.28462.python-list@python.org>
 <EC789AA9-D716-4D36-B101-03D7D41135CA@boomer.org>
 <mailman.278.1660759825.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0ufqfhlo3ptdec45p4dqq1i5einmsh5n3d@4ax.com>

On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 12:09:14 -0600, David at Booomer <david at boomer.org>
declaimed the following:

>    executables=[
>        Executable(
>            "prjui.py","Maiui.py","about.py","dict.py","geometry.py","getEquation.py",
>            "gtrail.py","main.py","matchingstring.py","producelatex.py","readfile.py",
>            "separete.py","speak.py",
>        )
>    ]
>)
>
	You are defining a list "executables" with only ONE member... (and is
that really how you spelled "separate").

>Searching for ?__init__(' in the 13 *.py files returned five lines in two files (algorithm.py and prjui.py). As mentioned searching for this error only produced mention of adding self which is in these lines already. Previously I had search for __init__() which returned no lines due to the closing ).
>
	You are still searching the wrong place... The __init__() that is
complaining is the one in cx_Freeze.Executable().

>I had visited the page you provided (https://cx-freeze.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup_script.html#cx-freeze-executable) but didn?t noticed the 11 plus self as 12 arguments.

	Really? Please count (reformatted from cut&paste):
"""
argument name				description

#1
script						the name of the file containing the script
which is to be frozen

#2
init_script					the name of the initialization script that will
be executed before the actual script is executed; this script is used to
set up the environment for the executable; if a name is given without an
absolute path the names of files in the initscripts subdirectory of the
cx_Freeze package is searched

#3
base						the name of the base executable; if a name is
given without an absolute path the names of files in the bases subdirectory
of the cx_Freeze package is searched

#4
target_name				the name of the target executable; the default
value is the name of the script; the extension is optional (automatically
added on Windows); support for names with version; if specified a pathname,
raise an error.

#5
icon						name of icon which should be included in the
executable itself on Windows or placed in the target directory for other
platforms (ignored in Microsoft Store Python app)

#6
manifest					name of manifest which should be included in
the executable itself (Windows only - ignored by Python app from Microsoft
Store)

#7
uac-admin					creates a manifest for an application that will
request elevation (Windows only - ignored by Python app from Microsoft
Store)

#8
shortcut_name				the name to give a shortcut for the executable
when included in an MSI package (Windows only).

#9
shortcut_dir					the directory in which to place the
shortcut when being installed by an MSI package; see the MSI Shortcut table
documentation for more information on what values can be placed here
(Windows only).

#10
copyright					the copyright value to include in the version
resource associated with executable (Windows only).

#11
trademarks					the trademarks value to include in the version
resource associated with the executable (Windows only).
"""

	You are passing 13 .py file names. There are only two arguments that
really want file names: script, and init_script. Most of the other
arguments are either optional or Windows specific (#6-11).

	I suspect you need to pass JUST main.py or Maiui.py (based on casing)
-- which ever is really the file you'd invoke to start the program running.
I'd hope the freeze system then scans (recursively) that file to find
anything imported, and include those in the final product.


-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
	wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

From barry at barrys-emacs.org  Wed Aug 17 16:18:52 2022
From: barry at barrys-emacs.org (Barry)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 21:18:52 +0100
Subject: UTF-8 and latin1
In-Reply-To: <slrntfq3f5.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
References: <slrntfq3f5.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <A071AA19-E1A7-456B-9A81-BA7BDFFAD27F@barrys-emacs.org>



> On 17 Aug 2022, at 18:30, Jon Ribbens via Python-list <python-list at python.org> wrote:
> 
> ?On 2022-08-17, Tobiah <toby at tobiah.org> wrote:
>> I get data from various sources; client emails, spreadsheets, and
>> data from web applications.  I find that I can do some_string.decode('latin1')
>> to get unicode that I can use with xlsxwriter,
>> or put <meta charset="latin1"> in the header of a web page to display
>> European characters correctly.  But normally UTF-8 is recommended as
>> the encoding to use today.  latin1 works correctly more often when I
>> am using data from the wild.  It's frustrating that I have to play
>> a guessing game to figure out how to use incoming text.   I'm just wondering
>> if there are any thoughts.  What if we just globally decided to use utf-8?
>> Could that ever happen?
> 
> That has already been decided, as much as it ever can be. UTF-8 is
> essentially always the correct encoding to use on output, and almost
> always the correct encoding to assume on input absent any explicit
> indication of another encoding. (e.g. the HTML "standard" says that
> all HTML files must be UTF-8.)
> 
> If you are finding that your specific sources are often encoded with
> latin-1 instead then you could always try something like:
> 
>    try:
>        text = data.decode('utf-8')
>    except UnicodeDecodeError:
>        text = data.decode('latin-1')
> 
> (I think latin-1 text will almost always fail to be decoded as utf-8,
> so this would work fairly reliably assuming those are the only two
> encodings you see.)

Only if a reserved byte is used in the string.
It will often work in either.

For web pages it cannot be assumed that markup saying it?s utf-8 is
correct. Many pages are I fact cp1252. Usually you find out because
of a smart quote that is 0xa0 is cp1252 and illegal in utf-8.

Barry


> 
> Or you could use something fancy like https://pypi.org/project/chardet/
> 
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


From drsalists at gmail.com  Wed Aug 17 16:58:57 2022
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 13:58:57 -0700
Subject: setup.py + cython == chicken and the egg problem
In-Reply-To: <tdhvah$cfkd$1@dont-email.me>
References: <CAGGBd_q=kO9BS-pani1gv=z-wPiHg-JShn2Rpif+1-j7epXa8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.272.1660683836.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tdhvah$cfkd$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_p758fkB1dcNjo4SMP-mXvr4arX_ypwUO-ppqaHi=_spg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 10:20 AM Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus at gmx.de>
wrote:

> Am 16.08.22 um 23:03 schrieb Dan Stromberg:
> > I'm attempting to package up a python package that uses Cython.
> >
> > Rather than build binaries for everything under the sun, I've been
> focusing
> > on including the .pyx file and running cython on it at install time.
> This
> > requires a C compiler, but I'm OK with that.
> >
> > However, when I try to install the package from test.pypi.org, I get:
> > $ python3 -m pip install -i https://test.pypi.org/simple/ pyx-treap
> > below cmd output started 2022 Tue Aug 16 01:55:16 PM PDT
> > Looking in indexes: https://test.pypi.org/simple/
> > Collecting pyx-treap
> >    Downloading
> >
> https://test-files.pythonhosted.org/packages/3a/41/af5360934adccfc086a39e1f720323895144b53454ff6dacc0f06267db55/pyx_treap-2.0.15.tar.gz
> > (125 kB)
> >
> >
>  ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
> > 125.9/125.9 kB 1.9 MB/s eta 0:00:00
> >    Installing build dependencies ... error
> >    error: subprocess-exited-with-error
> >
> >    ?? pip subprocess to install build dependencies did not run
> successfully.
> >    ?? exit code: 1
> >    ????> [3 lines of output]
> >        Looking in indexes: https://test.pypi.org/simple/
> >        ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement
> > setuptools (from versions: none)
> >        ERROR: No matching distribution found for setuptools
> >        [end of output]
> >
> >    note: This error originates from a subprocess, and is likely not a
> > problem with pip.
> > error: subprocess-exited-with-error
>
>
> I looked at your code and I think you are trying too hard. As far as I
> understand, you need Cython to be installed before the build process
> begins. Your entry in pyproject.toml should take care of that.
> But you also have these lines in your setup.py
>
> subprocess.check_call('%s -m pip install cython' % (sys.executable, ),
> shell=True)
> subprocess.check_call('%s -m cython pyx_treap.pyx' % (sys.executable, ),
> shell=True)
>
> The first one calls out to pip while pip is already running, I'm not
> sure that this will work, but judging from the error message it is
> looking for the requirements also from test.pypi. Maybe this is the
> reason that it fails (the error message says that it can't find
> setuptools). So jut delete this line and it might already work
>
> The second line, which compiles the Cython code, also runs *at every
> invocation of setup.py*, even if you'd do just
>
>         python3 setup.py --help
>
> It may still work, but the correct way to do it is to create a build
> extension for setuptools. In my project you can see this here:
>
>         https://github.com/j-from-b/CDEF/blob/main/setup.py#L88
>
> OTOH, I would be surprised if Cython did not have this already, indeed
> you imported cythonize from Cython.Build. So maybe just deleting these
> two lines and it might work?
>

I commented out those too lines, but I'm still getting errors.  They seem
to stem from:
$ "/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/bin/python3",
["/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/bin/python3",
"/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/lib/python3.9/site-packages/pip/__pip-runner__.py",
"install", "--ignore-installed", "--no-user", "--prefix",
"/tmp/pip-build-env-9_ivrsb6/overlay", "--no-warn-script-location",
"--no-binary", ":none:", "--only-binary", ":none:", "-i", "
https://test.pypi.org/simple/", "--", "setuptools >= 44.1.1", "wheel",
"Cython"]
"/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/bin/python3"
"/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/lib/python3.9/site-packages/pip/__pip-runner__.py"
"install" "--ignore-installed" "--no-user" "--prefix"
"/tmp/pip-build-env-9_ivrsb6/overlay" "--no-warn-script-location"
"--no-binary" ":none:" "--only-binary" ":none:" "-i" "
https://test.pypi.org/simple/" "--" "setuptools >= 44.1.1" "wheel" "Cython"
Looking in indexes: https://test.pypi.org/simple/
ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement
setuptools>=44.1.1 (from versions: none)
ERROR: No matching distribution found for setuptools>=44.1.1

I copied that out of an strace.

That's likely related to my pyproject.toml:
$ cat pyproject.toml
below cmd output started 2022 Wed Aug 17 01:57:09 PM PDT
[build-system]
requires = ["setuptools >= 44.1.1", "wheel", "Cython"]
build-backend = "setuptools.build_meta"

Any other suggestions folks?

From PythonList at DancesWithMice.info  Wed Aug 17 16:53:17 2022
From: PythonList at DancesWithMice.info (dn)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 08:53:17 +1200
Subject: UTF-8 and latin1
In-Reply-To: <encoding-20220817163204@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
References: <tdj0t2$19v7$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <encoding-20220817163204@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <25fc2688-ab5c-ab7a-8466-f672480ae87c@DancesWithMice.info>

On 18/08/2022 03.33, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Tobiah <toby at tobiah.org> writes:
>> I get data from various sources; client emails, spreadsheets, and
>> data from web applications.  I find that I can do some_string.decode('latin1')
> 
>   Strings have no "decode" method. ("bytes" objects do.)
> 
>> to get unicode that I can use with xlsxwriter,
>> or put <meta charset="latin1"> in the header of a web page to display
>> European characters correctly.
> 
> |You should always use the UTF-8 character encoding. (Remember
> |that this means you also need to save your content as UTF-8.)
> World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) (2014)
> 
>> am using data from the wild.  It's frustrating that I have to play
>> a guessing game to figure out how to use incoming text.   I'm just wondering
> 
>   You can let Python guess the encoding of a file.
> 
> def encoding_of( name ):
>     path = pathlib.Path( name )
>     for encoding in( "utf_8", "cp1252", "latin_1" ):
>         try:
>             with path.open( encoding=encoding, errors="strict" )as file:
>                 text = file.read()
>             return encoding
>         except UnicodeDecodeError:
>             pass
>     return None
> 
>> if there are any thoughts.  What if we just globally decided to use utf-8?
>> Could that ever happen?
> 
>   That decisions has been made long ago.

Unfortunately, much of our data was collected long before then - and as
we've discovered, the OP is still living in Python 2 times.

What about if the path "name" (above) is not in utf-8?
eg the OP's Montr?al in Latin1, as Montr?al.txt or Montr?al.rpt
-- 
Regards,
=dn

From hjp-python at hjp.at  Wed Aug 17 17:17:27 2022
From: hjp-python at hjp.at (Peter J. Holzer)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 23:17:27 +0200
Subject: Problem using cx_Freeze
In-Reply-To: <EC789AA9-D716-4D36-B101-03D7D41135CA@boomer.org>
References: <mailman.7.1660752002.28462.python-list@python.org>
 <EC789AA9-D716-4D36-B101-03D7D41135CA@boomer.org>
Message-ID: <20220817211727.3jad6yukog4vrz4g@hjp.at>

On 2022-08-17 12:09:14 -0600, David at Booomer wrote:
>         Executable(
>             "prjui.py","Maiui.py","about.py","dict.py","geometry.py","getEquation.py",
>             "gtrail.py","main.py","matchingstring.py","producelatex.py","readfile.py",
>             "separete.py","speak.py",
>         )
[...]
> I am/was worried about the trailing ?,' after ',"speak.py?,? <- but
> deleting it or moving it after the ] didn?t help.

This has nothing to do with your problem but:

Python allows a trailing comma in any comma-separated list of values. It
will just be ignored.

This is really common in modern programming languages (read: programming
languages younger than 30 years or so), because it makes it much more
convenient to extend/shorten/reorder a list. Otherwise you alway have to
remember add or remove a comma in the right place. (Some people
(especially SQL programmers for some reason) resorted to put the comma
at the start of each line to get around this, which is really ugly.)

        hp

-- 
   _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Story must make more sense than reality.
|_|_) |                    |
| |   | hjp at hjp.at         |    -- Charles Stross, "Creative writing
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |       challenge!"
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From drsalists at gmail.com  Wed Aug 17 18:05:35 2022
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 15:05:35 -0700
Subject: setup.py + cython == chicken and the egg problem
In-Reply-To: <CAGGBd_p758fkB1dcNjo4SMP-mXvr4arX_ypwUO-ppqaHi=_spg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGGBd_q=kO9BS-pani1gv=z-wPiHg-JShn2Rpif+1-j7epXa8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.272.1660683836.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tdhvah$cfkd$1@dont-email.me>
 <CAGGBd_p758fkB1dcNjo4SMP-mXvr4arX_ypwUO-ppqaHi=_spg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_oHd9Fk9FQ-1N2xuY0VhSgJj=ndnQhxWPZyG--nUEo2tA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 1:58 PM Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 10:20 AM Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus at gmx.de>
> wrote:
>
>> Am 16.08.22 um 23:03 schrieb Dan Stromberg:
>> > I'm attempting to package up a python package that uses Cython.
>> >
>> > Rather than build binaries for everything under the sun, I've been
>> focusing
>> > on including the .pyx file and running cython on it at install time.
>> This
>> > requires a C compiler, but I'm OK with that.
>> >
>> > However, when I try to install the package from test.pypi.org, I get:
>> > $ python3 -m pip install -i https://test.pypi.org/simple/ pyx-treap
>> > below cmd output started 2022 Tue Aug 16 01:55:16 PM PDT
>> > Looking in indexes: https://test.pypi.org/simple/
>> > Collecting pyx-treap
>> >    Downloading
>> >
>> https://test-files.pythonhosted.org/packages/3a/41/af5360934adccfc086a39e1f720323895144b53454ff6dacc0f06267db55/pyx_treap-2.0.15.tar.gz
>> > (125 kB)
>> >
>> >
>>  ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
>> > 125.9/125.9 kB 1.9 MB/s eta 0:00:00
>> >    Installing build dependencies ... error
>> >    error: subprocess-exited-with-error
>> >
>> >    ?? pip subprocess to install build dependencies did not run
>> successfully.
>> >    ?? exit code: 1
>> >    ????> [3 lines of output]
>> >        Looking in indexes: https://test.pypi.org/simple/
>> >        ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement
>> > setuptools (from versions: none)
>> >        ERROR: No matching distribution found for setuptools
>> >        [end of output]
>> >
>> >    note: This error originates from a subprocess, and is likely not a
>> > problem with pip.
>> > error: subprocess-exited-with-error
>>
>>
>> I looked at your code and I think you are trying too hard. As far as I
>> understand, you need Cython to be installed before the build process
>> begins. Your entry in pyproject.toml should take care of that.
>> But you also have these lines in your setup.py
>>
>> subprocess.check_call('%s -m pip install cython' % (sys.executable, ),
>> shell=True)
>> subprocess.check_call('%s -m cython pyx_treap.pyx' % (sys.executable, ),
>> shell=True)
>>
>> The first one calls out to pip while pip is already running, I'm not
>> sure that this will work, but judging from the error message it is
>> looking for the requirements also from test.pypi. Maybe this is the
>> reason that it fails (the error message says that it can't find
>> setuptools). So jut delete this line and it might already work
>>
>> The second line, which compiles the Cython code, also runs *at every
>> invocation of setup.py*, even if you'd do just
>>
>>         python3 setup.py --help
>>
>> It may still work, but the correct way to do it is to create a build
>> extension for setuptools. In my project you can see this here:
>>
>>         https://github.com/j-from-b/CDEF/blob/main/setup.py#L88
>>
>> OTOH, I would be surprised if Cython did not have this already, indeed
>> you imported cythonize from Cython.Build. So maybe just deleting these
>> two lines and it might work?
>>
>
> I commented out those too lines, but I'm still getting errors.  They seem
> to stem from:
> $ "/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/bin/python3",
> ["/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/bin/python3",
> "/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/lib/python3.9/site-packages/pip/__pip-runner__.py",
> "install", "--ignore-installed", "--no-user", "--prefix",
> "/tmp/pip-build-env-9_ivrsb6/overlay", "--no-warn-script-location",
> "--no-binary", ":none:", "--only-binary", ":none:", "-i", "
> https://test.pypi.org/simple/", "--", "setuptools >= 44.1.1", "wheel",
> "Cython"]
> "/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/bin/python3"
> "/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/lib/python3.9/site-packages/pip/__pip-runner__.py"
> "install" "--ignore-installed" "--no-user" "--prefix"
> "/tmp/pip-build-env-9_ivrsb6/overlay" "--no-warn-script-location"
> "--no-binary" ":none:" "--only-binary" ":none:" "-i" "
> https://test.pypi.org/simple/" "--" "setuptools >= 44.1.1" "wheel"
> "Cython"
> Looking in indexes: https://test.pypi.org/simple/
> ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement
> setuptools>=44.1.1 (from versions: none)
> ERROR: No matching distribution found for setuptools>=44.1.1
>
> I copied that out of an strace.
>
> That's likely related to my pyproject.toml:
> $ cat pyproject.toml
> below cmd output started 2022 Wed Aug 17 01:57:09 PM PDT
> [build-system]
> requires = ["setuptools >= 44.1.1", "wheel", "Cython"]
> build-backend = "setuptools.build_meta"
>
> Any other suggestions folks?
>

I don't know why, but if I delete the --ignore-installed option, I don't
get the error:
$ "/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/bin/python3"
"/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/lib/python3.9/site-packages/pip/__pip-runner__.py"
"install" "--ignore-installed" "--prefix"
"/tmp/pip-build-env-9_ivrsb6/overlay" "-i" "https://test.pypi.org/simple/"
"--" "setuptools>=44.1.1"
below cmd output started 2022 Wed Aug 17 02:56:24 PM PDT
Looking in indexes: https://test.pypi.org/simple/
ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement
setuptools>=44.1.1 (from versions: none)
ERROR: No matching distribution found for setuptools>=44.1.1
(setuptools-investigation) above cmd output done    2022 Wed Aug 17
02:56:24 PM PDT
dstromberg at tp-mini-c:~ x86_64-pc-linux-gnu 2995

$ "/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/bin/python3"
"/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/lib/python3.9/site-packages/pip/__pip-runner__.py"
"install" "--prefix" "/tmp/pip-build-env-9_ivrsb6/overlay" "-i" "
https://test.pypi.org/simple/" "--" "setuptools>=44.1.1"
below cmd output started 2022 Wed Aug 17 02:56:35 PM PDT
Looking in indexes: https://test.pypi.org/simple/
Requirement already satisfied: setuptools>=44.1.1 in
./venv/pyx-treap-testing/lib/python3.9/site-packages (63.4.1)

If I search for foo on pypi and testpypi, shouldn't I get foo before
foo-bar and bar-foo?

Because if I search for setuptools on pypi, I get setuptools as my first
hit, but on testpypi, I don't see setuptools anywhere in the first page.
That's perhaps significant if the search ordering is working as described
above.

?

From shereawsh at gmail.com  Wed Aug 17 16:54:46 2022
From: shereawsh at gmail.com (Sherea Washington)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 16:54:46 -0400
Subject: Fwd: install
In-Reply-To: <CAEP9WisVtiKZdxBc1WNC5WF6tj2Z_eEVcgZ3kFGP8+pw0BTvNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEP9WisVtiKZdxBc1WNC5WF6tj2Z_eEVcgZ3kFGP8+pw0BTvNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEP9WituqgVPkmHf9d_qxOT8U_LM5yhWtCvD6nhJkWXESdKAgw@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Sherea Washington <shereawsh at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 4:41 PM
Subject: install
To: <python-list at python.org>


Hi

I'm trying to install this. I have used all of these options below, but I
can't anywhere. it keeps looping back to this when I click on the download.
Please help. cell 843-364-2212

[image: image.png]

From PythonList at DancesWithMice.info  Wed Aug 17 18:29:26 2022
From: PythonList at DancesWithMice.info (dn)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 10:29:26 +1200
Subject: Fwd: install
In-Reply-To: <CAEP9WituqgVPkmHf9d_qxOT8U_LM5yhWtCvD6nhJkWXESdKAgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEP9WisVtiKZdxBc1WNC5WF6tj2Z_eEVcgZ3kFGP8+pw0BTvNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEP9WituqgVPkmHf9d_qxOT8U_LM5yhWtCvD6nhJkWXESdKAgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6f0ba4fa-5c5f-9de4-f601-2a0ed3bec5d9@DancesWithMice.info>



On 18/08/2022 08.54, Sherea Washington wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Sherea Washington <shereawsh at gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 4:41 PM
> Subject: install
> To: <python-list at python.org>
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> I'm trying to install this. I have used all of these options below, but I
> can't anywhere. it keeps looping back to this when I click on the download.
> Please help. cell 843-364-2212
> 
> [image: image.png]


Welcome to the list.

Sadly, no graphics are allowed.

The cell number does not appear to include an international code.

Please review the documentation: 4. Using Python on Windows
https://docs.python.org/3/using/windows.html
and advise if that does not solve the problem.

-- 
Regards,
=dn

From drsalists at gmail.com  Thu Aug 18 00:05:09 2022
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 21:05:09 -0700
Subject: setup.py + cython == chicken and the egg problem
In-Reply-To: <CAGGBd_oHd9Fk9FQ-1N2xuY0VhSgJj=ndnQhxWPZyG--nUEo2tA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGGBd_q=kO9BS-pani1gv=z-wPiHg-JShn2Rpif+1-j7epXa8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.272.1660683836.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tdhvah$cfkd$1@dont-email.me>
 <CAGGBd_p758fkB1dcNjo4SMP-mXvr4arX_ypwUO-ppqaHi=_spg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGGBd_oHd9Fk9FQ-1N2xuY0VhSgJj=ndnQhxWPZyG--nUEo2tA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_pXYHhV+31k5z_6jF5d15FtPvrMN5VGboyCGKKQ4+P+Fg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 3:05 PM Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:

> I commented out those too lines, but I'm still getting errors.  They seem
>> to stem from:
>> $ "/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/bin/python3",
>> ["/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/bin/python3",
>> "/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/lib/python3.9/site-packages/pip/__pip-runner__.py",
>> "install", "--ignore-installed", "--no-user", "--prefix",
>> "/tmp/pip-build-env-9_ivrsb6/overlay", "--no-warn-script-location",
>> "--no-binary", ":none:", "--only-binary", ":none:", "-i", "
>> https://test.pypi.org/simple/", "--", "setuptools >= 44.1.1", "wheel",
>> "Cython"]
>> "/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/bin/python3"
>> "/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/lib/python3.9/site-packages/pip/__pip-runner__.py"
>> "install" "--ignore-installed" "--no-user" "--prefix"
>> "/tmp/pip-build-env-9_ivrsb6/overlay" "--no-warn-script-location"
>> "--no-binary" ":none:" "--only-binary" ":none:" "-i" "
>> https://test.pypi.org/simple/" "--" "setuptools >= 44.1.1" "wheel"
>> "Cython"
>> Looking in indexes: https://test.pypi.org/simple/
>> ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement
>> setuptools>=44.1.1 (from versions: none)
>> ERROR: No matching distribution found for setuptools>=44.1.1
>>
>> I copied that out of an strace.
>>
>> That's likely related to my pyproject.toml:
>> $ cat pyproject.toml
>> below cmd output started 2022 Wed Aug 17 01:57:09 PM PDT
>> [build-system]
>> requires = ["setuptools >= 44.1.1", "wheel", "Cython"]
>> build-backend = "setuptools.build_meta"
>>
>> Any other suggestions folks?
>>
>
> I don't know why, but if I delete the --ignore-installed option, I don't
> get the error:
> $ "/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/bin/python3"
> "/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/lib/python3.9/site-packages/pip/__pip-runner__.py"
> "install" "--ignore-installed" "--prefix"
> "/tmp/pip-build-env-9_ivrsb6/overlay" "-i" "https://test.pypi.org/simple/"
> "--" "setuptools>=44.1.1"
> below cmd output started 2022 Wed Aug 17 02:56:24 PM PDT
> Looking in indexes: https://test.pypi.org/simple/
> ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement
> setuptools>=44.1.1 (from versions: none)
> ERROR: No matching distribution found for setuptools>=44.1.1
> (setuptools-investigation) above cmd output done    2022 Wed Aug 17
> 02:56:24 PM PDT
> dstromberg at tp-mini-c:~ x86_64-pc-linux-gnu 2995
>
> $ "/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/bin/python3"
> "/home/dstromberg/venv/pyx-treap-testing/lib/python3.9/site-packages/pip/__pip-runner__.py"
> "install" "--prefix" "/tmp/pip-build-env-9_ivrsb6/overlay" "-i" "
> https://test.pypi.org/simple/" "--" "setuptools>=44.1.1"
> below cmd output started 2022 Wed Aug 17 02:56:35 PM PDT
> Looking in indexes: https://test.pypi.org/simple/
> Requirement already satisfied: setuptools>=44.1.1 in
> ./venv/pyx-treap-testing/lib/python3.9/site-packages (63.4.1)
>
> If I search for foo on pypi and testpypi, shouldn't I get foo before
> foo-bar and bar-foo?
>
> Because if I search for setuptools on pypi, I get setuptools as my first
> hit, but on testpypi, I don't see setuptools anywhere in the first page.
> That's perhaps significant if the search ordering is working as described
> above.
>
> ?
>

IOW, maybe testpypi doesn't have setuptools.  Indeed, it doesn't appear
to.  Publishing and installing from the real pypi seems to be working.

Thanks folks.

From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Wed Aug 17 20:11:28 2022
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 00:11:28 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: UTF-8 and latin1
References: <tdj0t2$19v7$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfq3f5.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <tdjb6i$1t8p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <slrntfr0tg.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>

On 2022-08-17, Tobiah <toby at tobiah.org> wrote:
>> That has already been decided, as much as it ever can be. UTF-8 is
>> essentially always the correct encoding to use on output, and almost
>> always the correct encoding to assume on input absent any explicit
>> indication of another encoding. (e.g. the HTML "standard" says that
>> all HTML files must be UTF-8.)

> I got an email from a client with blast text that
> was in French with stuff like: Montr?al, Queb?c.
> latin1 did the trick.

There's no accounting for the Qu?b?cois. They think they speak French.

> Also, whenever I get a spreadsheet from a client and save as .csv,
> or take browser data through PHP, it always seems to work with latin1,
> but not UTF-8.

That depends on how you "saved as .csv" and what you did with PHP.
Generally speaking browser submisisons were/are supposed to be sent
using the same encoding as the page, so if you're sending the page
as "latin1" then you'll see that a fair amount I should think. If you
send it as "utf-8" then you'll get 100% utf-8 back.

From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Wed Aug 17 20:20:53 2022
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 00:20:53 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: UTF-8 and latin1
References: <slrntfq3f5.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <A071AA19-E1A7-456B-9A81-BA7BDFFAD27F@barrys-emacs.org>
 <mailman.280.1660767543.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrntfr1f5.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>

On 2022-08-17, Barry <barry at barrys-emacs.org> wrote:
>> On 17 Aug 2022, at 18:30, Jon Ribbens via Python-list <python-list at python.org> wrote:
>> On 2022-08-17, Tobiah <toby at tobiah.org> wrote:
>>> I get data from various sources; client emails, spreadsheets, and
>>> data from web applications.  I find that I can do some_string.decode('latin1')
>>> to get unicode that I can use with xlsxwriter,
>>> or put <meta charset="latin1"> in the header of a web page to display
>>> European characters correctly.  But normally UTF-8 is recommended as
>>> the encoding to use today.  latin1 works correctly more often when I
>>> am using data from the wild.  It's frustrating that I have to play
>>> a guessing game to figure out how to use incoming text.   I'm just wondering
>>> if there are any thoughts.  What if we just globally decided to use utf-8?
>>> Could that ever happen?
>> 
>> That has already been decided, as much as it ever can be. UTF-8 is
>> essentially always the correct encoding to use on output, and almost
>> always the correct encoding to assume on input absent any explicit
>> indication of another encoding. (e.g. the HTML "standard" says that
>> all HTML files must be UTF-8.)
>> 
>> If you are finding that your specific sources are often encoded with
>> latin-1 instead then you could always try something like:
>> 
>>    try:
>>        text = data.decode('utf-8')
>>    except UnicodeDecodeError:
>>        text = data.decode('latin-1')
>> 
>> (I think latin-1 text will almost always fail to be decoded as utf-8,
>> so this would work fairly reliably assuming those are the only two
>> encodings you see.)
>
> Only if a reserved byte is used in the string.
> It will often work in either.

Because it's actually ASCII and hence there's no difference between
interpreting it as utf-8 or iso-8859-1? In which case, who cares?

> For web pages it cannot be assumed that markup saying it?s utf-8 is
> correct. Many pages are I fact cp1252. Usually you find out because
> of a smart quote that is 0xa0 is cp1252 and illegal in utf-8.

Hence what I said above. But if a source explicitly states an encoding
and it's false then these days I see little need for sympathy.

From toby at tobiah.org  Thu Aug 18 10:45:09 2022
From: toby at tobiah.org (Tobiah)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 07:45:09 -0700
Subject: UTF-8 and latin1
References: <tdj0t2$19v7$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfq3f5.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <tdjb6i$1t8p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfr0tg.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <tdlj9l$g39$1@gioia.aioe.org>

> Generally speaking browser submisisons were/are supposed to be sent
> using the same encoding as the page, so if you're sending the page
> as "latin1" then you'll see that a fair amount I should think. If you
> send it as "utf-8" then you'll get 100% utf-8 back.

The only trick I know is to use <meta charset="utf-8">.  Would
that 'send' the post as utf-8?  I always expected it had more
to do with the way the user entered the characters.  How do
they by the way, enter things like Montr?al, Queb?c.  When they
enter that into a text box on a web page can we say it's in
a particular encoding at that time?  At submit time?


From david at boomer.org  Thu Aug 18 14:17:25 2022
From: david at boomer.org (David at Booomer)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 12:17:25 -0600
Subject: Problem using cx_Freeze > auto-py-to-exe
In-Reply-To: <mailman.16.1660838401.12030.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.16.1660838401.12030.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2B29A26F-4863-4D69-8F66-B06EE837F3B1@boomer.org>

From: Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com>
> 
> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 12:09:14 -0600, David at Booomer <david at boomer.org>
> declaimed the following:
> 
>>   executables=[
>>       Executable(
>>           "prjui.py","Maiui.py","about.py","dict.py","geometry.py","getEquation.py",
>>           "gtrail.py","main.py","matchingstring.py","producelatex.py","readfile.py",
>>           "separete.py","speak.py",
>>       )
>>   ]
>> )
>> 
> 	You are defining a list "executables" with only ONE member... (and is
> that really how you spelled "separate").

Not my spelling, although I do have to be careful when typing that word.

From before:
"I?m trying to get LaTex-to-Speech (https://github.com/SGanesh19/LaTeX-to-Speech) to run as an accessibility aid, converting equations into speech. I haven?t used cx_Freeze before so stumbling somewhat."

> 
>> Searching for ?__init__(' in the 13 *.py files returned five lines in two files (algorithm.py and prjui.py). As mentioned searching for this error only produced mention of adding self which is in these lines already. Previously I had search for __init__() which returned no lines due to the closing ).
>> 
> 	You are still searching the wrong place... The __init__() that is
> complaining is the one in cx_Freeze.Executable().
> 
>> I had visited the page you provided (https://cx-freeze.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup_script.html#cx-freeze-executable) but didn?t noticed the 11 plus self as 12 arguments.
> 
> 	Really? Please count (reformatted from cut&paste):

I did count but hadn?t noticed this argument list before you mentioned it. However, I still don?t see any of these argument names in the Executable list or anywhere else.

> """
> argument name				description
> 
> #1
> script						the name of the file containing the script
> which is to be frozen
> 
> ...
> 
> #11
> trademarks					the trademarks value to include in the version
> resource associated with the executable (Windows only).
> """
> 
> 	You are passing 13 .py file names. There are only two arguments that
> really want file names: script, and init_script. Most of the other
> arguments are either optional or Windows specific (#6-11).
> 
> 	I suspect you need to pass JUST main.py or Maiui.py (based on casing)
> -- which ever is really the file you'd invoke to start the program running.
> I'd hope the freeze system then scans (recursively) that file to find
> anything imported, and include those in the final product.
> 

I tried passing just main.py or one of the others that might be a starting point but just got ?NoneType has no len()

I was hoping to use someone else?s code to turn Latex equations into Speech. Maybe easier to just narrated each equation to create an audio file.

Thanks for your suggestions Dennis. This was the first time I saw the possibility of creating a python executable.

Then I searched for ?python executable? and found auto-py-to-exe and pyinstaller which I must/might explore later. First tries ran into PyQt4 to PyQt5 conversions. Good start at https://towardsdatascience.com/how-to-easily-convert-a-python-script-to-an-executable-file-exe-4966e253c7e9

I might wait for the original author to respond to an issue I posted on GitHub.

Thanks again. David

> -- 
> 	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
> 	wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/
> 
...

> From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-python at hjp.at>
> Subject: Re: Problem using cx_Freeze
> Date: August 17, 2022 at 3:17:27 PM MDT
> To: python-list at python.org
> 
> On 2022-08-17 12:09:14 -0600, David at Booomer wrote:
>>        Executable(
>>            "prjui.py","Maiui.py","about.py","dict.py","geometry.py","getEquation.py",
>>            "gtrail.py","main.py","matchingstring.py","producelatex.py","readfile.py",
>>            "separete.py","speak.py",
>>        )
> [...]
>> I am/was worried about the trailing ?,' after ',"speak.py?,? <- but
>> deleting it or moving it after the ] didn?t help.
> 
> This has nothing to do with your problem but:
> 
> Python allows a trailing comma in any comma-separated list of values. It
> will just be ignored.
> 
> This is really common in modern programming languages (read: programming
> languages younger than 30 years or so), because it makes it much more
> convenient to extend/shorten/reorder a list. Otherwise you alway have to
> remember add or remove a comma in the right place. (Some people
> (especially SQL programmers for some reason) resorted to put the comma
> at the start of each line to get around this, which is really ugly.)
> 
>        hp

The trailing , does make commenting out arguments easier but unexpected coming from ?older? languages. ;-)

Thanks, Peter

?
David Bourne, Ph.D., Associate Professor C/T
Skaggs School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences, Mail Stop C238
Aurora, CO 80045-2605
Email: david.bourne at ucdenver.edu or david at boomer.org
CV: http://www.boomer.org/db/CV.pdf
My books and apps: https://www.pharmpk.com/MyeBooks.html


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Aug 18 14:23:59 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2022 04:23:59 +1000
Subject: Problem using cx_Freeze > auto-py-to-exe
In-Reply-To: <2B29A26F-4863-4D69-8F66-B06EE837F3B1@boomer.org>
References: <mailman.16.1660838401.12030.python-list@python.org>
 <2B29A26F-4863-4D69-8F66-B06EE837F3B1@boomer.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpwNomaifX39V8bjB1hxB9KmPYeEmxBW-oVQUSSwT5PYQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 at 04:19, David at Booomer <david at boomer.org> wrote:
> > This is really common in modern programming languages (read: programming
> > languages younger than 30 years or so), because it makes it much more
> > convenient to extend/shorten/reorder a list. Otherwise you alway have to
> > remember add or remove a comma in the right place. (Some people
> > (especially SQL programmers for some reason) resorted to put the comma
> > at the start of each line to get around this, which is really ugly.)
> >
> >        hp
>
> The trailing , does make commenting out arguments easier but unexpected coming from ?older? languages. ;-)
>

It's one of the frustrations with JSON, since that format doesn't
allow the trailing comma :)

ChrisA

From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Thu Aug 18 12:53:31 2022
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 16:53:31 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: UTF-8 and latin1
References: <tdj0t2$19v7$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfq3f5.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <tdjb6i$1t8p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfr0tg.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <tdlj9l$g39$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <slrntfsrkb.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>

On 2022-08-18, Tobiah <toby at tobiah.org> wrote:
>> Generally speaking browser submisisons were/are supposed to be sent
>> using the same encoding as the page, so if you're sending the page
>> as "latin1" then you'll see that a fair amount I should think. If you
>> send it as "utf-8" then you'll get 100% utf-8 back.
>
> The only trick I know is to use <meta charset="utf-8">.  Would
> that 'send' the post as utf-8?  I always expected it had more
> to do with the way the user entered the characters.  How do
> they by the way, enter things like Montr?al, Queb?c.  When they
> enter that into a text box on a web page can we say it's in
> a particular encoding at that time?  At submit time?

You configure the web server to send:

    Content-Type: text/html; charset=...

in the HTTP header when it serves HTML files. Another way is to put:

    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=...">

or:

    <meta charset="...">

in the <head> section of your HTML document. The HTML "standard"
nowadays says that you are only allowed to use the "utf-8" encoding,
but if you use another encoding then browsers will generally use that
as both the encoding to use when reading the HTML file and the encoding
to use when submitting form data.

From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Thu Aug 18 15:03:47 2022
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 12:03:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem using cx_Freeze > auto-py-to-exe
References: <mailman.16.1660838401.12030.python-list@python.org>
 <2B29A26F-4863-4D69-8F66-B06EE837F3B1@boomer.org>
 <CAPTjJmpwNomaifX39V8bjB1hxB9KmPYeEmxBW-oVQUSSwT5PYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <62fe8d13.370a0220.6babc.5c8f@mx.google.com>

On 2022-08-18, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 at 04:19, David at Booomer <david at boomer.org> wrote:
>
>> The trailing , does make commenting out arguments easier but
>> unexpected coming from ?older? languages. ;-)
>
> It's one of the frustrations with JSON, since that format doesn't
> allow the trailing comma :)

Yep, that's a constant, low-level pain for all the C code I deal with
which generates JSON. You'd think after 10+ years of maintaining code
that outputs JSON, I wouldn't trip over that any longer...

--
Grant


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Aug 18 16:59:21 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2022 06:59:21 +1000
Subject: Problem using cx_Freeze > auto-py-to-exe
In-Reply-To: <62fe8d13.370a0220.6babc.5c8f@mx.google.com>
References: <mailman.16.1660838401.12030.python-list@python.org>
 <2B29A26F-4863-4D69-8F66-B06EE837F3B1@boomer.org>
 <CAPTjJmpwNomaifX39V8bjB1hxB9KmPYeEmxBW-oVQUSSwT5PYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62fe8d13.370a0220.6babc.5c8f@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoQxsPn4WeHVUDjusVB5Zf5VJKTxxJKJvcSSOPkdinfgw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 at 05:05, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 2022-08-18, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 at 04:19, David at Booomer <david at boomer.org> wrote:
> >
> >> The trailing , does make commenting out arguments easier but
> >> unexpected coming from ?older? languages. ;-)
> >
> > It's one of the frustrations with JSON, since that format doesn't
> > allow the trailing comma :)
>
> Yep, that's a constant, low-level pain for all the C code I deal with
> which generates JSON. You'd think after 10+ years of maintaining code
> that outputs JSON, I wouldn't trip over that any longer...
>

With some JSON files, I just cheat and define a shim at the end of arrays...

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Rosuav/MustardMine/master/template.json

ChrisA

From toby at tobiah.org  Thu Aug 18 14:33:59 2022
From: toby at tobiah.org (Tobiah)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 11:33:59 -0700
Subject: UTF-8 and latin1
References: <tdj0t2$19v7$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfq3f5.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <tdjb6i$1t8p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfr0tg.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <tdlj9l$g39$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfsrkb.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <tdm0mp$l3e$1@gioia.aioe.org>

> You configure the web server to send:
> 
>      Content-Type: text/html; charset=...
> 
> in the HTTP header when it serves HTML files.

So how does this break down?  When a person enters
Montr?al, Queb?c into a form field, what are they
doing on the keyboard to make that happen?  As the
string sits there in the text box, is it latin1, or utf-8
or something else?  How does the browser know what
sort of data it has in that text box?



From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Thu Aug 18 14:56:58 2022
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 18:56:58 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: UTF-8 and latin1
References: <tdj0t2$19v7$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfq3f5.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <tdjb6i$1t8p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfr0tg.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <tdlj9l$g39$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfsrkb.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <tdm0mp$l3e$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <slrntft2rq.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>

On 2022-08-18, Tobiah <toby at tobiah.org> wrote:
>> You configure the web server to send:
>> 
>>      Content-Type: text/html; charset=...
>> 
>> in the HTTP header when it serves HTML files.
>
> So how does this break down?  When a person enters
> Montr?al, Queb?c into a form field, what are they
> doing on the keyboard to make that happen?

It depends on what keybaord they have. Using a standard UK or US
("qwerty") keyboard and Windows you should be able to type "?" by
holding down the 'Alt' key to the right of the spacebar, and typing
'e'.  If they're using a French ("azerty") keyboard then I think they
can enter it by holding 'shift' and typing '2'.

> As the string sits there in the text box, is it latin1, or utf-8
> or something else?

That depends on which browser you're using. I think it's quite likely
it will use UTF-32 (i.e. fixed-width 32 bits per character).

> How does the browser know what sort of data it has in that text box?

It's a text box, so it knows it's text.

From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Aug 18 18:20:16 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2022 08:20:16 +1000
Subject: UTF-8 and latin1
In-Reply-To: <tdm0mp$l3e$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <tdj0t2$19v7$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfq3f5.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <tdjb6i$1t8p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfr0tg.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <tdlj9l$g39$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfsrkb.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <tdm0mp$l3e$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp0WZEHSMxqaFccd1-9kOHsynVVoQabe60Au0cj2b5p=w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 at 08:15, Tobiah <toby at tobiah.org> wrote:
>
> > You configure the web server to send:
> >
> >      Content-Type: text/html; charset=...
> >
> > in the HTTP header when it serves HTML files.
>
> So how does this break down?  When a person enters
> Montr?al, Queb?c into a form field, what are they
> doing on the keyboard to make that happen?  As the
> string sits there in the text box, is it latin1, or utf-8
> or something else?  How does the browser know what
> sort of data it has in that text box?
>

As it sits there in the text box, it is *a text string*.

When it gets sent to the server, the encoding is defined by the
browser (with reference to the server's specifications) and identified
in a request header.

The server should then receive that and interpret it as a text string.

Encodings should ONLY be relevant when data is stored in files or
transmitted across a network etc, and the rest of the time, just think
in Unicode.

Also - migrate to Python 3, your life will become a lot easier.

ChrisA

From subtitle.indo at gmail.com  Thu Aug 18 20:00:04 2022
From: subtitle.indo at gmail.com (subin)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2022 01:00:04 +0100
Subject: Problem using cx_Freeze
In-Reply-To: <20220817211727.3jad6yukog4vrz4g@hjp.at>
References: <mailman.7.1660752002.28462.python-list@python.org>
 <EC789AA9-D716-4D36-B101-03D7D41135CA@boomer.org>
 <20220817211727.3jad6yukog4vrz4g@hjp.at>
Message-ID: <CAJnMy6f4VtaMUqjRwPq85Kh5uwXjjeKgNXjPS7QNyqRarOLHRA@mail.gmail.com>

Hope you had a good time.

On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 10:19 PM Peter J. Holzer <hjp-python at hjp.at> wrote:

> On 2022-08-17 12:09:14 -0600, David at Booomer wrote:
> >         Executable(
> >
>  "prjui.py","Maiui.py","about.py","dict.py","geometry.py","getEquation.py",
> >
>  "gtrail.py","main.py","matchingstring.py","producelatex.py","readfile.py",
> >             "separete.py","speak.py",
> >         )
> [...]
> > I am/was worried about the trailing ?,' after ',"speak.py?,? <- but
> > deleting it or moving it after the ] didn?t help.
>
> This has nothing to do with your problem but:
>
> Python allows a trailing comma in any comma-separated list of values. It
> will just be ignored.
>
> This is really common in modern programming languages (read: programming
> languages younger than 30 years or so), because it makes it much more
> convenient to extend/shorten/reorder a list. Otherwise you alway have to
> remember add or remove a comma in the right place. (Some people
> (especially SQL programmers for some reason) resorted to put the comma
> at the start of each line to get around this, which is really ugly.)
>
>         hp
>
> --
>    _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Story must make more sense than reality.
> |_|_) |                    |
> | |   | hjp at hjp.at         |    -- Charles Stross, "Creative writing
> __/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |       challenge!"
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Thu Aug 18 20:05:43 2022
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 17:05:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem using cx_Freeze > auto-py-to-exe
References: <mailman.16.1660838401.12030.python-list@python.org>
 <2B29A26F-4863-4D69-8F66-B06EE837F3B1@boomer.org>
 <CAPTjJmpwNomaifX39V8bjB1hxB9KmPYeEmxBW-oVQUSSwT5PYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62fe8d13.370a0220.6babc.5c8f@mx.google.com>
 <CAPTjJmoQxsPn4WeHVUDjusVB5Zf5VJKTxxJKJvcSSOPkdinfgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <62fed3d7.920a0220.9eb9d.1b96@mx.google.com>

On 2022-08-18, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 at 05:05, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-08-18, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > It's one of the frustrations with JSON, since that format doesn't
>> > allow the trailing comma :)
>>
>> Yep, that's a constant, low-level pain for all the C code I deal with
>> which generates JSON. You'd think after 10+ years of maintaining code
>> that outputs JSON, I wouldn't trip over that any longer...
>
> With some JSON files, I just cheat and define a shim at the end of arrays...
>
> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Rosuav/MustardMine/master/template.json

That's OK if it's strictly internal. Almost all of the JSON data I
work with is part of published APIs ? many of which are defined by
industry consortiums or corporate-wide "standards".

--
Grant



From drsalists at gmail.com  Thu Aug 18 20:33:30 2022
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 17:33:30 -0700
Subject: setup.py + cython == chicken and the egg problem
In-Reply-To: <CAGGBd_q=kO9BS-pani1gv=z-wPiHg-JShn2Rpif+1-j7epXa8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGGBd_q=kO9BS-pani1gv=z-wPiHg-JShn2Rpif+1-j7epXa8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_qvVs9oDk=ZrGA6ZCj-7-XUYWieO5Oy1Z24fVfL=gQ3cw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 2:03 PM Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi folks.
>
> I'm attempting to package up a python package that uses Cython.
>
> Rather than build binaries for everything under the sun, I've been
> focusing on including the .pyx file and running cython on it at install
> time.  This requires a C compiler, but I'm OK with that.
>
> BTW, the pure python version works fine, and the cython version works too
> as long as you preinstall cython - but I don't want users to have to know
> that :)
>

For the actual chicken-and-egg problem, I'd needed to include my
pyproject.toml in my MANIFEST.in, like:
include pyx_treap.pyx pyx_treap.c pyproject.toml

From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Aug 18 20:35:17 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2022 10:35:17 +1000
Subject: Problem using cx_Freeze > auto-py-to-exe
In-Reply-To: <62fed3d7.920a0220.9eb9d.1b96@mx.google.com>
References: <mailman.16.1660838401.12030.python-list@python.org>
 <2B29A26F-4863-4D69-8F66-B06EE837F3B1@boomer.org>
 <CAPTjJmpwNomaifX39V8bjB1hxB9KmPYeEmxBW-oVQUSSwT5PYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62fe8d13.370a0220.6babc.5c8f@mx.google.com>
 <CAPTjJmoQxsPn4WeHVUDjusVB5Zf5VJKTxxJKJvcSSOPkdinfgw@mail.gmail.com>
 <62fed3d7.920a0220.9eb9d.1b96@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmou7QKZR2yCs5iMWbMj6W6qDUh+zrCcL+B2p8sL_0PqPg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 at 10:07, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 2022-08-18, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 at 05:05, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 2022-08-18, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > It's one of the frustrations with JSON, since that format doesn't
> >> > allow the trailing comma :)
> >>
> >> Yep, that's a constant, low-level pain for all the C code I deal with
> >> which generates JSON. You'd think after 10+ years of maintaining code
> >> that outputs JSON, I wouldn't trip over that any longer...
> >
> > With some JSON files, I just cheat and define a shim at the end of arrays...
> >
> > https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Rosuav/MustardMine/master/template.json
>
> That's OK if it's strictly internal. Almost all of the JSON data I
> work with is part of published APIs ? many of which are defined by
> industry consortiums or corporate-wide "standards".
>

That's an export/import format that I defined, so I mandated (a) that
there's an empty-string key as a signature (on import, it can be
anywhere, but on export, it's that final shim), and (b) all arrays are
allowed to have an empty string at the end, which is ignored on
import. Saves so much trouble.

That particular export format is actually designed as a git-managed
config file as well, which is why the line breaks are done the way
they are (anything on a single line is intended to be added/removed as
a single unit), which is why I definitely don't want the "add a comma
to the previous line" deltas.

"Strictly internal" is a subset of "protocols/standards that you are
in control of". :)

ChrisA

From Daniel-ZX.Li at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 19 04:39:43 2022
From: Daniel-ZX.Li at hotmail.com (Daniel Lee)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2022 08:39:43 +0000
Subject: =?gb2312?B?u9i4tDogUHJvYmxlbSB1c2luZyBjeF9GcmVlemUgPiBhdXRvLXB5LXRvLWV4?=
 =?gb2312?Q?e?=
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmou7QKZR2yCs5iMWbMj6W6qDUh+zrCcL+B2p8sL_0PqPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.16.1660838401.12030.python-list@python.org>
 <2B29A26F-4863-4D69-8F66-B06EE837F3B1@boomer.org>
 <CAPTjJmpwNomaifX39V8bjB1hxB9KmPYeEmxBW-oVQUSSwT5PYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62fe8d13.370a0220.6babc.5c8f@mx.google.com>
 <CAPTjJmoQxsPn4WeHVUDjusVB5Zf5VJKTxxJKJvcSSOPkdinfgw@mail.gmail.com>
 <62fed3d7.920a0220.9eb9d.1b96@mx.google.com>
 <CAPTjJmou7QKZR2yCs5iMWbMj6W6qDUh+zrCcL+B2p8sL_0PqPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ME3P282MB3808BCECA22342F8E800F2D4C06C9@ME3P282MB3808.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Thank you so much, I really appreciate it.

???: Chris Angelico<mailto:rosuav at gmail.com>
????: 2022?8?19? 8:39
???: python-list at python.org<mailto:python-list at python.org>
??: Re: Problem using cx_Freeze > auto-py-to-exe

On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 at 10:07, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 2022-08-18, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 at 05:05, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 2022-08-18, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > It's one of the frustrations with JSON, since that format doesn't
> >> > allow the trailing comma :)
> >>
> >> Yep, that's a constant, low-level pain for all the C code I deal with
> >> which generates JSON. You'd think after 10+ years of maintaining code
> >> that outputs JSON, I wouldn't trip over that any longer...
> >
> > With some JSON files, I just cheat and define a shim at the end of arrays...
> >
> > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fraw.githubusercontent.com%2FRosuav%2FMustardMine%2Fmaster%2Ftemplate.json&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7Cc74e60f1d42f4904e66c08da817b37fa%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637964663486534639%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=W5LULRCXXGHodvem7CdscC9KZDrU7ONXbCAlIuBZ8Xg%3D&amp;reserved=0
>
> That's OK if it's strictly internal. Almost all of the JSON data I
> work with is part of published APIs ? many of which are defined by
> industry consortiums or corporate-wide "standards".
>

That's an export/import format that I defined, so I mandated (a) that
there's an empty-string key as a signature (on import, it can be
anywhere, but on export, it's that final shim), and (b) all arrays are
allowed to have an empty string at the end, which is ignored on
import. Saves so much trouble.

That particular export format is actually designed as a git-managed
config file as well, which is why the line breaks are done the way
they are (anything on a single line is intended to be added/removed as
a single unit), which is why I definitely don't want the "add a comma
to the previous line" deltas.

"Strictly internal" is a subset of "protocols/standards that you are
in control of". :)

ChrisA
--
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.python.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fpython-list&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7Cc74e60f1d42f4904e66c08da817b37fa%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637964663486554552%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=5nlih9a9slRg%2FWdtsS4IbskQKIKUTfj%2BqefVsWa0C4Q%3D&amp;reserved=0


From Daniel-ZX.Li at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 19 04:40:04 2022
From: Daniel-ZX.Li at hotmail.com (Daniel Lee)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2022 08:40:04 +0000
Subject: =?gb2312?B?u9i4tDogc2V0dXAucHkgKyBjeXRob24gPT0gY2hpY2tlbiBhbmQgdGhlIGVn?=
 =?gb2312?Q?g_problem?=
In-Reply-To: <CAGGBd_qvVs9oDk=ZrGA6ZCj-7-XUYWieO5Oy1Z24fVfL=gQ3cw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGGBd_q=kO9BS-pani1gv=z-wPiHg-JShn2Rpif+1-j7epXa8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGGBd_qvVs9oDk=ZrGA6ZCj-7-XUYWieO5Oy1Z24fVfL=gQ3cw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ME3P282MB3808A0BA0F2DF7EA9E1D9454C06C9@ME3P282MB3808.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Thank you!

? Windows ???<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>??

???: Dan Stromberg<mailto:drsalists at gmail.com>
????: 2022?8?19? 8:35
???: Python List<mailto:python-list at python.org>
??: Re: setup.py + cython == chicken and the egg problem

On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 2:03 PM Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi folks.
>
> I'm attempting to package up a python package that uses Cython.
>
> Rather than build binaries for everything under the sun, I've been
> focusing on including the .pyx file and running cython on it at install
> time.  This requires a C compiler, but I'm OK with that.
>
> BTW, the pure python version works fine, and the cython version works too
> as long as you preinstall cython - but I don't want users to have to know
> that :)
>

For the actual chicken-and-egg problem, I'd needed to include my
pyproject.toml in my MANIFEST.in, like:
include pyx_treap.pyx pyx_treap.c pyproject.toml
--
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From Daniel-ZX.Li at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 19 04:40:25 2022
From: Daniel-ZX.Li at hotmail.com (Daniel Lee)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2022 08:40:25 +0000
Subject: =?gb2312?B?u9i4tDogUHJvYmxlbSB1c2luZyBjeF9GcmVlemU=?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJnMy6f4VtaMUqjRwPq85Kh5uwXjjeKgNXjPS7QNyqRarOLHRA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.7.1660752002.28462.python-list@python.org>
 <EC789AA9-D716-4D36-B101-03D7D41135CA@boomer.org>
 <20220817211727.3jad6yukog4vrz4g@hjp.at>
 <CAJnMy6f4VtaMUqjRwPq85Kh5uwXjjeKgNXjPS7QNyqRarOLHRA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ME3P282MB38082083EAAA98D1BD68C7EBC06C9@ME3P282MB3808.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Thank you!
???: subin<mailto:subtitle.indo at gmail.com>
????: 2022?8?19? 8:02
???: python-list at python.org<mailto:python-list at python.org>
??: Re: Problem using cx_Freeze

Hope you had a good time.

On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 10:19 PM Peter J. Holzer <hjp-python at hjp.at> wrote:

> On 2022-08-17 12:09:14 -0600, David at Booomer wrote:
> >         Executable(
> >
>  "prjui.py","Maiui.py","about.py","dict.py","geometry.py","getEquation.py",
> >
>  "gtrail.py","main.py","matchingstring.py","producelatex.py","readfile.py",
> >             "separete.py","speak.py",
> >         )
> [...]
> > I am/was worried about the trailing ?,' after ',"speak.py?,? <- but
> > deleting it or moving it after the ] didn?t help.
>
> This has nothing to do with your problem but:
>
> Python allows a trailing comma in any comma-separated list of values. It
> will just be ignored.
>
> This is really common in modern programming languages (read: programming
> languages younger than 30 years or so), because it makes it much more
> convenient to extend/shorten/reorder a list. Otherwise you alway have to
> remember add or remove a comma in the right place. (Some people
> (especially SQL programmers for some reason) resorted to put the comma
> at the start of each line to get around this, which is really ugly.)
>
>         hp
>
> --
>    _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Story must make more sense than reality.
> |_|_) |                    |
> | |   | hjp at hjp.at         |    -- Charles Stross, "Creative writing
> __/   | https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hjp.at%2F&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7Cf1c5395d5c384d4337a308da81760b87%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637964641252805670%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=%2F8KY%2FjYyHLyPx3VNEXGW0yBOwwoNSOgjbqt6Z46AKHQ%3D&amp;reserved=0 |       challenge!"
> --
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.python.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fpython-list&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7Cf1c5395d5c384d4337a308da81760b87%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637964641252805670%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=SQPv4cUay6nBpvjcx7m9FGSfhZXBrwyQ72IdwWCpyCE%3D&amp;reserved=0
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From Daniel-ZX.Li at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 19 04:40:50 2022
From: Daniel-ZX.Li at hotmail.com (Daniel Lee)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2022 08:40:50 +0000
Subject: =?gb2312?B?u9i4tDogVVRGLTggYW5kIGxhdGluMQ==?=
In-Reply-To: <information-20220818200014@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
References: <tdj0t2$19v7$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfq3f5.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <tdjb6i$1t8p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfr0tg.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <tdlj9l$g39$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfsrkb.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <tdm0mp$l3e$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <information-20220818200014@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <ME3P282MB38089F2C743EE4ECC4C8827CC06C9@ME3P282MB3808.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Thanks!

???: Stefan Ram<mailto:ram at zedat.fu-berlin.de>
????: 2022?8?19? 6:23
???: python-list at python.org<mailto:python-list at python.org>
??: Re: UTF-8 and latin1

Tobiah <toby at tobiah.org> writes:
>                              When a person enters
>Montr?al, Queb?c into a form field, what are they
>doing on the keyboard to make that happen?

  Depends on the OS and its configuration. Some devices might
  not even have a keyboard as hardware.

>                                            As the
>string sits there in the text box, is it latin1, or utf-8
>or something else?

  This is an internal implementation detail of the browser.

>                    How does the browser know what
>sort of data it has in that text box?

  This is an internal implementation details of the browser.

  You usually do not need to know these internal information
  about the browser in order to use it.


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From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Thu Aug 18 21:38:55 2022
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 21:38:55 -0400
Subject: UTF-8 and latin1
References: <tdj0t2$19v7$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfq3f5.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <tdjb6i$1t8p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfr0tg.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <tdlj9l$g39$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <slrntfsrkb.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <tdm0mp$l3e$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <0uptfhhvu9deneso0bu9r4sg0tnc9piq5p@4ax.com>

On Thu, 18 Aug 2022 11:33:59 -0700, Tobiah <toby at tobiah.org> declaimed the
following:

>
>So how does this break down?  When a person enters
>Montr?al, Queb?c into a form field, what are they
>doing on the keyboard to make that happen?  As the
>string sits there in the text box, is it latin1, or utf-8
>or something else?  How does the browser know what
>sort of data it has in that text box?
>

	If this were my ancient Amiga -- most of the accented characters in
ISO-Latin-1 were entered by using one of the meta/alt keys simultaneously
with one of five or six designated "dead keys" (in days of typewriters, a
dead key was one that did not advance the carriage to the next character
space). The dead key indicated which accent mark was to be applied to the
subsequent "regular" character.

	On Windows, many of the characters might be entered using <alt>####
(where #### are keys on the numeric pad!)  (such as <alt>1254 => ?).

	As for what the browser receives? Unless the browser is asking for raw
key codes and translating them internally to some encoding, it is likely
receiving characters in whatever encoding has been defined for the
computer/OS (Windows, most likely CP1252, which is a superset of latin-1 as
I recall). Whether the browser then re-encodes that to UTF-8 is something I
can't answer.



-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
	wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Thu Aug 18 21:54:36 2022
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 21:54:36 -0400
Subject: Problem using cx_Freeze > auto-py-to-exe
References: <mailman.16.1660838401.12030.python-list@python.org>
 <2B29A26F-4863-4D69-8F66-B06EE837F3B1@boomer.org>
 <mailman.288.1660846716.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <chqtfhdl3uh80ck4m4k1c2i36922sb3th5@4ax.com>

On Thu, 18 Aug 2022 12:17:25 -0600, David at Booomer <david at boomer.org>
declaimed the following:

>
>I did count but hadn?t noticed this argument list before you mentioned it. However, I still don?t see any of these argument names in the Executable list or anywhere else.
>

	It's your responsibility to provide them when you called Executable().
As I said, you are (were?) providing a whole bunch of .py files, which were
being mapped to these arguments.


>"""
>argument name				description
>
>#1
>script						the name of the file containing the script
>which is to be frozen
>
		prjui.py

>#2
>init_script					the name of the initialization script that will
>be executed before the actual script is executed; this script is used to
>set up the environment for the executable; if a name is given without an
>absolute path the names of files in the initscripts subdirectory of the
>cx_Freeze package is searched
>
		Maiui.py

>#3
>base						the name of the base executable; if a name is
>given without an absolute path the names of files in the bases subdirectory
>of the cx_Freeze package is searched
>
		about.py

>#4
>target_name				the name of the target executable; the default
>value is the name of the script; the extension is optional (automatically
>added on Windows); support for names with version; if specified a pathname,
>raise an error.
>
		dict.py

>#5
>icon						name of icon which should be included in the
>executable itself on Windows or placed in the target directory for other
>platforms (ignored in Microsoft Store Python app)
>
		geometry.py

>#6
>manifest					name of manifest which should be included in
>the executable itself (Windows only - ignored by Python app from Microsoft
>Store)
>
		getEquation.py

>#7
>uac-admin					creates a manifest for an application that will
>request elevation (Windows only - ignored by Python app from Microsoft
>Store)
>
		gtrail.py

>#8
>shortcut_name				the name to give a shortcut for the executable
>when included in an MSI package (Windows only).
>
		main.py

>#9
>shortcut_dir					the directory in which to place the
>shortcut when being installed by an MSI package; see the MSI Shortcut table
>documentation for more information on what values can be placed here
>(Windows only).

		matchingstring.py

>#10
>copyright					the copyright value to include in the version
>resource associated with executable (Windows only).
>
		producelatex.py

>#11
>trademarks					the trademarks value to include in the version
>resource associated with the executable (Windows only).

		readfile.py

and
		separete.py
		speak.py
are not mapped to anything, hence the too-many arguments error.
>"""

	As you can see, a lot of those don't even fit with the data type of the
argument.
>
>I tried passing just main.py or one of the others that might be a starting point but just got ?NoneType has no len()

	What did the traceback say? Just reporting the last line message is
meaningless.

>Then I searched for ?python executable? and found auto-py-to-exe and pyinstaller which I must/might explore later. First tries ran into PyQt4 to PyQt5 conversions. Good start at https://towardsdatascience.com/how-to-easily-convert-a-python-script-to-an-executable-file-exe-4966e253c7e9
>

	Note that pretty much all such python->executable scheme is just making
an archive of the required Python source files, and packaging the core of
the Python interpreter is such a way that running this archive is simply
extracting the source files and running the packaged Python interpreter
with them.


-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
	wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Aug 19 14:30:17 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2022 04:30:17 +1000
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>

What's the best way to precisely reconstruct an HTML file after
parsing it with BeautifulSoup?

Using the Alice example from the BS4 docs:

>>> html_doc = """<html><head><title>The Dormouse's story</title></head>
<body>
<p class="title"><b>The Dormouse's story</b></p>

<p class="story">Once upon a time there were three little sisters; and
their names were
<a href="http://example.com/elsie" class="sister" id="link1">Elsie</a>,
<a href="http://example.com/lacie" class="sister" id="link2">Lacie</a> and
<a href="http://example.com/tillie" class="sister" id="link3">Tillie</a>;
and they lived at the bottom of a well.</p>

<p class="story">...</p>
"""
>>> print(soup)
<html><head><title>The Dormouse's story</title></head>
<body>
<p class="title"><b>The Dormouse's story</b></p>
<p class="story">Once upon a time there were three little sisters; and
their names were
<a class="sister" href="http://example.com/elsie" id="link1">Elsie</a>,
<a class="sister" href="http://example.com/lacie" id="link2">Lacie</a> and
<a class="sister" href="http://example.com/tillie" id="link3">Tillie</a>;
and they lived at the bottom of a well.</p>
<p class="story">...</p>
</body></html>
>>>

Note two distinct changes: firstly, whitespace has been removed, and
secondly, attributes are reordered (I think alphabetically). There are
other canonicalizations being done, too.

I'm trying to make some automated changes to a huge number of HTML
files, with minimal diffs so they're easy to validate. That means that
spurious changes like these are very much unwanted. Is there a way to
get BS4 to reconstruct the original precisely?

The mutation itself would be things like finding an anchor tag and
changing its href attribute. Fairly simple changes, but might alter
the length of the file (eg changing "http://example.com/" into
"https://example.com/"). I'd like to do them intelligently rather than
falling back on element.sourceline and element.sourcepos, but worst
case, that's what I'll have to do (which would be fiddly).

ChrisA

From barry at barrys-emacs.org  Fri Aug 19 15:12:35 2022
From: barry at barrys-emacs.org (Barry)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2022 20:12:35 +0100
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>



> On 19 Aug 2022, at 19:33, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?What's the best way to precisely reconstruct an HTML file after
> parsing it with BeautifulSoup?

I recall that in bs4 it parses into an object tree and loses the detail of the input.
I recently ported from very old bs to bs4 and hit the same issue.
So no it will not output the same as went in.

If you can trust the input to be parsed as xml, meaning all the rules of closing
tags have been followed. Then I think you can parse and unparse thru xml to
do what you want.

Barry


> 
> Using the Alice example from the BS4 docs:
> 
>>>> html_doc = """<html><head><title>The Dormouse's story</title></head>
> <body>
> <p class="title"><b>The Dormouse's story</b></p>
> 
> <p class="story">Once upon a time there were three little sisters; and
> their names were
> <a href="http://example.com/elsie" class="sister" id="link1">Elsie</a>,
> <a href="http://example.com/lacie" class="sister" id="link2">Lacie</a> and
> <a href="http://example.com/tillie" class="sister" id="link3">Tillie</a>;
> and they lived at the bottom of a well.</p>
> 
> <p class="story">...</p>
> """
>>>> print(soup)
> <html><head><title>The Dormouse's story</title></head>
> <body>
> <p class="title"><b>The Dormouse's story</b></p>
> <p class="story">Once upon a time there were three little sisters; and
> their names were
> <a class="sister" href="http://example.com/elsie" id="link1">Elsie</a>,
> <a class="sister" href="http://example.com/lacie" id="link2">Lacie</a> and
> <a class="sister" href="http://example.com/tillie" id="link3">Tillie</a>;
> and they lived at the bottom of a well.</p>
> <p class="story">...</p>
> </body></html>
>>>> 
> 
> Note two distinct changes: firstly, whitespace has been removed, and
> secondly, attributes are reordered (I think alphabetically). There are
> other canonicalizations being done, too.
> 
> I'm trying to make some automated changes to a huge number of HTML
> files, with minimal diffs so they're easy to validate. That means that
> spurious changes like these are very much unwanted. Is there a way to
> get BS4 to reconstruct the original precisely?
> 
> The mutation itself would be things like finding an anchor tag and
> changing its href attribute. Fairly simple changes, but might alter
> the length of the file (eg changing "http://example.com/" into
> "https://example.com/"). I'd like to do them intelligently rather than
> falling back on element.sourceline and element.sourcepos, but worst
> case, that's what I'll have to do (which would be fiddly).
> 
> ChrisA
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


From 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com  Fri Aug 19 16:05:14 2022
From: 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com (2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2022 15:05:14 -0500
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>
Message-ID: <Yv/s+uZlhr31IhUq@anomaly>

On 2022-08-19 at 20:12:35 +0100,
Barry <barry at barrys-emacs.org> wrote:

> > On 19 Aug 2022, at 19:33, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > ?What's the best way to precisely reconstruct an HTML file after
> > parsing it with BeautifulSoup?
> 
> I recall that in bs4 it parses into an object tree and loses the
> detail of the input.  I recently ported from very old bs to bs4 and
> hit the same issue.  So no it will not output the same as went in.
> 
> If you can trust the input to be parsed as xml, meaning all the rules
> of closing tags have been followed. Then I think you can parse and
> unparse thru xml to do what you want.

XML is in the same boat.  Except for "canonical form" (which underlies
cryptographically signed XML documents) the standards explicitly don't
require tools to round-trip the "source code."  The preferred method of
comparing XML documents is at the structural level rather than with
textual representations.  That way, the following two elements are the
same (and similar with a collection of sub-elements in a different order
in another document):

    <e a="b" c="d"/>

and

    <e c="d" a="b"/>

Dan

From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Aug 19 17:01:09 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2022 07:01:09 +1000
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqKz1om04YVgaOgt9gtrqsGbU93s1OK1t6YhtTyLvF=ig@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 05:12, Barry <barry at barrys-emacs.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 19 Aug 2022, at 19:33, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > ?What's the best way to precisely reconstruct an HTML file after
> > parsing it with BeautifulSoup?
>
> I recall that in bs4 it parses into an object tree and loses the detail of the input.
> I recently ported from very old bs to bs4 and hit the same issue.
> So no it will not output the same as went in.
>
> If you can trust the input to be parsed as xml, meaning all the rules of closing
> tags have been followed. Then I think you can parse and unparse thru xml to
> do what you want.
>


Yeah, no I can't, this is HTML 4 with a ton of inconsistencies. Oh
well. Thanks for trying, anyhow.

So I'm left with a few options:

1) Give up on validation, give up on verification, and just run this
thing on the production site with my fingers crossed
2) Instead of doing an intelligent reconstruction, just str.replace()
one URL with another within the file
3) Split the file into lines, find the Nth line (elem.sourceline) and
str.replace that line only
4) Attempt to use elem.sourceline and elem.sourcepos to find the start
of the tag, manually find the end, and replace one tag with the
reconstructed form.

I'm inclined to the first option, honestly. The others just seem like
hard work, and I became a programmer so I could be lazy...

ChrisA

From bouncingcats at gmail.com  Fri Aug 19 20:02:30 2022
From: bouncingcats at gmail.com (David)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:02:30 +1000
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqKz1om04YVgaOgt9gtrqsGbU93s1OK1t6YhtTyLvF=ig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>
 <CAPTjJmqKz1om04YVgaOgt9gtrqsGbU93s1OK1t6YhtTyLvF=ig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMPXz=p4V1ciuGhTQnO_1PB7tjsQh5YHtDvWTdQySO8uvi7WgA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 04:31, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> What's the best way to precisely reconstruct an HTML file after
> parsing it with BeautifulSoup?

> Note two distinct changes: firstly, whitespace has been removed, and
> secondly, attributes are reordered (I think alphabetically). There are
> other canonicalizations being done, too.

> I'm trying to make some automated changes to a huge number of HTML
> files, with minimal diffs so they're easy to validate. That means that
> spurious changes like these are very much unwanted. Is there a way to
> get BS4 to reconstruct the original precisely?

On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 07:02, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 05:12, Barry <barry at barrys-emacs.org> wrote:

> > I recall that in bs4 it parses into an object tree and loses the detail
> > of the input.  I recently ported from very old bs to bs4 and hit the
> > same issue.  So no it will not output the same as went in.

> So I'm left with a few options:

> 1) Give up on validation, give up on verification, and just run this
>    thing on the production site with my fingers crossed

> 2) Instead of doing an intelligent reconstruction, just str.replace() one
>    URL with another within the file

> 3) Split the file into lines, find the Nth line (elem.sourceline) and
>    str.replace that line only

> 4) Attempt to use elem.sourceline and elem.sourcepos to find the start of
>    the tag, manually find the end, and replace one tag with the
>    reconstructed form.

> I'm inclined to the first option, honestly. The others just seem like
> hard work, and I became a programmer so I could be lazy...

Hi, I don't know if you will like this option, but I don't see it on the
list yet so ...

I'm assuming that the phrase "with minimal diffs so they're easy to
validate" means being eyeballed by a human.

Have you considered two passes through BS? Do the first pass with no
modification, so that the intermediate result gets the BS default
"spurious" changes.

Then do the second pass with the desired changes, so that the human will
see only the desired changes in the diff.

From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Aug 19 20:10:47 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:10:47 +1000
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <CAMPXz=p4V1ciuGhTQnO_1PB7tjsQh5YHtDvWTdQySO8uvi7WgA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>
 <CAPTjJmqKz1om04YVgaOgt9gtrqsGbU93s1OK1t6YhtTyLvF=ig@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMPXz=p4V1ciuGhTQnO_1PB7tjsQh5YHtDvWTdQySO8uvi7WgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpERgawUEE802djhh9FoPV16Pvy-RJ+XHz6eMHFcWqD7g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 10:04, David <bouncingcats at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 04:31, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > What's the best way to precisely reconstruct an HTML file after
> > parsing it with BeautifulSoup?
>
> > Note two distinct changes: firstly, whitespace has been removed, and
> > secondly, attributes are reordered (I think alphabetically). There are
> > other canonicalizations being done, too.
>
> > I'm trying to make some automated changes to a huge number of HTML
> > files, with minimal diffs so they're easy to validate. That means that
> > spurious changes like these are very much unwanted. Is there a way to
> > get BS4 to reconstruct the original precisely?
>
> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 07:02, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 05:12, Barry <barry at barrys-emacs.org> wrote:
>
> > > I recall that in bs4 it parses into an object tree and loses the detail
> > > of the input.  I recently ported from very old bs to bs4 and hit the
> > > same issue.  So no it will not output the same as went in.
>
> > So I'm left with a few options:
>
> > 1) Give up on validation, give up on verification, and just run this
> >    thing on the production site with my fingers crossed
>
> > 2) Instead of doing an intelligent reconstruction, just str.replace() one
> >    URL with another within the file
>
> > 3) Split the file into lines, find the Nth line (elem.sourceline) and
> >    str.replace that line only
>
> > 4) Attempt to use elem.sourceline and elem.sourcepos to find the start of
> >    the tag, manually find the end, and replace one tag with the
> >    reconstructed form.
>
> > I'm inclined to the first option, honestly. The others just seem like
> > hard work, and I became a programmer so I could be lazy...
>
> Hi, I don't know if you will like this option, but I don't see it on the
> list yet so ...

Hey, all options are welcomed :)

> I'm assuming that the phrase "with minimal diffs so they're easy to
> validate" means being eyeballed by a human.
>
> Have you considered two passes through BS? Do the first pass with no
> modification, so that the intermediate result gets the BS default
> "spurious" changes.
>
> Then do the second pass with the desired changes, so that the human will
> see only the desired changes in the diff.

I'm 100% confident of the actual changes, so that wouldn't really
solve anything. The problem is that, without eyeballing the actual
changes, I can't easily see if there's been something else changed or
broken. This is a scripted change that will affect probably hundreds
of HTML files across a large web site, so making sure I don't break
anything means either (a) minimize the diff so it's clearly correct,
or (b) eyeball the rendered versions of every page - manually - to see
if there were any unintended changes. (There WILL be intended visual
changes, so I can't render the page to bitmap and ensure that it
hasn't changed. This is not React snapshot testing, which IMO is one
of the most useless testing features ever devised. No, actually, that
can't be true, someone MUST have made a worse one.)

Appreciate the suggestion, though!

ChrisA

From PythonList at DancesWithMice.info  Fri Aug 19 20:17:38 2022
From: PythonList at DancesWithMice.info (dn)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2022 12:17:38 +1200
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqKz1om04YVgaOgt9gtrqsGbU93s1OK1t6YhtTyLvF=ig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>
 <CAPTjJmqKz1om04YVgaOgt9gtrqsGbU93s1OK1t6YhtTyLvF=ig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7be37315-9adc-4aac-4598-be122a9c1ca6@DancesWithMice.info>

On 20/08/2022 09.01, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 05:12, Barry <barry at barrys-emacs.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 19 Aug 2022, at 19:33, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?What's the best way to precisely reconstruct an HTML file after
>>> parsing it with BeautifulSoup?
>>
>> I recall that in bs4 it parses into an object tree and loses the detail of the input.
>> I recently ported from very old bs to bs4 and hit the same issue.
>> So no it will not output the same as went in.
>>
>> If you can trust the input to be parsed as xml, meaning all the rules of closing
>> tags have been followed. Then I think you can parse and unparse thru xml to
>> do what you want.
>>
> 
> 
> Yeah, no I can't, this is HTML 4 with a ton of inconsistencies. Oh
> well. Thanks for trying, anyhow.
> 
> So I'm left with a few options:
> 
> 1) Give up on validation, give up on verification, and just run this
> thing on the production site with my fingers crossed
> 2) Instead of doing an intelligent reconstruction, just str.replace()
> one URL with another within the file
> 3) Split the file into lines, find the Nth line (elem.sourceline) and
> str.replace that line only
> 4) Attempt to use elem.sourceline and elem.sourcepos to find the start
> of the tag, manually find the end, and replace one tag with the
> reconstructed form.
> 
> I'm inclined to the first option, honestly. The others just seem like
> hard work, and I became a programmer so I could be lazy...
+1 - but I've noticed that sometimes I have to work quite hard to be
this lazy!


Am assuming that http -> https is not the only 'change' (if it were,
you'd just do that without BS). How many such changes are planned/need
checking? Care to list them?

-- 
-- 
Regards,
=dn

From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Aug 19 20:38:07 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:38:07 +1000
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <7be37315-9adc-4aac-4598-be122a9c1ca6@DancesWithMice.info>
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>
 <CAPTjJmqKz1om04YVgaOgt9gtrqsGbU93s1OK1t6YhtTyLvF=ig@mail.gmail.com>
 <7be37315-9adc-4aac-4598-be122a9c1ca6@DancesWithMice.info>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoRbrAqBVKh6kda_biMgxT1dmoRvi+cPGF4T2-9hZCZ2w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 10:19, dn <PythonList at danceswithmice.info> wrote:
>
> On 20/08/2022 09.01, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 05:12, Barry <barry at barrys-emacs.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 19 Aug 2022, at 19:33, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ?What's the best way to precisely reconstruct an HTML file after
> >>> parsing it with BeautifulSoup?
> >>
> >> I recall that in bs4 it parses into an object tree and loses the detail of the input.
> >> I recently ported from very old bs to bs4 and hit the same issue.
> >> So no it will not output the same as went in.
> >>
> >> If you can trust the input to be parsed as xml, meaning all the rules of closing
> >> tags have been followed. Then I think you can parse and unparse thru xml to
> >> do what you want.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Yeah, no I can't, this is HTML 4 with a ton of inconsistencies. Oh
> > well. Thanks for trying, anyhow.
> >
> > So I'm left with a few options:
> >
> > 1) Give up on validation, give up on verification, and just run this
> > thing on the production site with my fingers crossed
> > 2) Instead of doing an intelligent reconstruction, just str.replace()
> > one URL with another within the file
> > 3) Split the file into lines, find the Nth line (elem.sourceline) and
> > str.replace that line only
> > 4) Attempt to use elem.sourceline and elem.sourcepos to find the start
> > of the tag, manually find the end, and replace one tag with the
> > reconstructed form.
> >
> > I'm inclined to the first option, honestly. The others just seem like
> > hard work, and I became a programmer so I could be lazy...
> +1 - but I've noticed that sometimes I have to work quite hard to be
> this lazy!

Yeah, that's very true...

> Am assuming that http -> https is not the only 'change' (if it were,
> you'd just do that without BS). How many such changes are planned/need
> checking? Care to list them?
>

Assumption is correct. The changes are more of the form "find all the
problems, add to the list of fixes, try to minimize the ones that need
to be done manually". So far, what I have is:

1) A bunch of http -> https, but not all of them - only domains where
I've confirmed that it's valid
2) Some absolute to relative conversions:
https://www.gsarchive.net/whowaswho/index.htm should be referred to as
/whowaswho/index.htm instead
3) A few outdated URLs for which we know the replacement, eg
http://www.cris.com/~oakapple/gasdisc/<anything> to
http://www.gasdisc.oakapplepress.com/<anything> (this one can't go on
HTTPS, which is one reason I can't shortcut that)
4) Some internal broken links where the path is wrong - anything that
resolves to /books/<anything> but can't be found might be better
rewritten as /html/perf_grps/websites/<anything> if the file can be
found there
5) Any external link that yields a permanent redirect should, to save
clientside requests, get replaced by the destination. We have some
Creative Commons badges that have moved to new URLs.

And there'll be other fixes to be done too. So it's a bit complicated,
and no simple solution is really sufficient. At the very very least, I
*need* to properly parse with BS4; the only question is whether I
reconstruct from the parse tree, or go back to the raw file and try to
edit it there.

For the record, I have very long-term plans to migrate parts of the
site to Markdown, which would make a lot of things easier. But for
now, I need to fix the existing problems in the existing HTML files,
without doing gigantic wholesale layout changes.

ChrisA

From monamlee00 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 19 17:07:03 2022
From: monamlee00 at gmail.com (Mona Lee)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2022 14:07:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python scripts in .exe form
Message-ID: <9bbeec64-b5ac-44fa-864c-2e7b8eb29a51n@googlegroups.com>

I'm pretty new to Python, and I had to do some tinkering because I was running into issues with trying to download a package from PIP and must've caused some issues in my program that I don't know how to fix

1. It started when I was unable to update PIP to the newest version because of some "Unknown error" (VS Code error - unable to read file - (Unknown(FileSystemError) where I believe some file was not saved in the right location? 

2. In my command line on VS code there used to be the prefix that looked something like "PS C:\Users\[name]>" but now it is "PS C:\Users\[name]\AppData\Local\Packages\PythonSoftwareFoundation.Python.3.10_qbz5n2kfra8p0\LocalCache\local-packages\Python310\Scripts>

>From there I redownloaded my VS code but still have the 2) issue.

also, my scripts are now in the .exe form that I cannot access because "it is either binary or in a unsupported text encoding" I've tried to extract it back into the .py form using pyinstxtractor and decompile-python3 but I can't successfully work these.

3. also wanted to mention that some of my old Python programs are missing.

From jschwar at sbcglobal.net  Sat Aug 20 09:25:01 2022
From: jschwar at sbcglobal.net (Jim Schwartz)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2022 08:25:01 -0500
Subject: Python scripts in .exe form
In-Reply-To: <9bbeec64-b5ac-44fa-864c-2e7b8eb29a51n@googlegroups.com>
References: <9bbeec64-b5ac-44fa-864c-2e7b8eb29a51n@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <695CDEE2-3B30-42AC-8FD0-8642AB88D7A5@sbcglobal.net>

What method did you use to create the exe file from your python scripts?  If it was pyinstaller, then it puts the compiled versions of these python scripts in a windows temp folder when you run them. You?ll be able to get the scripts from there. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 19, 2022, at 9:51 PM, Mona Lee <monamlee00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?I'm pretty new to Python, and I had to do some tinkering because I was running into issues with trying to download a package from PIP and must've caused some issues in my program that I don't know how to fix
> 
> 1. It started when I was unable to update PIP to the newest version because of some "Unknown error" (VS Code error - unable to read file - (Unknown(FileSystemError) where I believe some file was not saved in the right location? 
> 
> 2. In my command line on VS code there used to be the prefix that looked something like "PS C:\Users\[name]>" but now it is "PS C:\Users\[name]\AppData\Local\Packages\PythonSoftwareFoundation.Python.3.10_qbz5n2kfra8p0\LocalCache\local-packages\Python310\Scripts>
> 
> From there I redownloaded my VS code but still have the 2) issue.
> 
> also, my scripts are now in the .exe form that I cannot access because "it is either binary or in a unsupported text encoding" I've tried to extract it back into the .py form using pyinstxtractor and decompile-python3 but I can't successfully work these.
> 
> 3. also wanted to mention that some of my old Python programs are missing.
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Fri Aug 19 23:11:44 2022
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2022 03:11:44 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.301.1660933830.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrntg0k7g.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>

On 2022-08-19, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> What's the best way to precisely reconstruct an HTML file after
> parsing it with BeautifulSoup?
>
> Using the Alice example from the BS4 docs:
>
>>>> html_doc = """<html><head><title>The Dormouse's story</title></head>
><body>
><p class="title"><b>The Dormouse's story</b></p>
>
><p class="story">Once upon a time there were three little sisters; and
> their names were
><a href="http://example.com/elsie" class="sister" id="link1">Elsie</a>,
><a href="http://example.com/lacie" class="sister" id="link2">Lacie</a> and
><a href="http://example.com/tillie" class="sister" id="link3">Tillie</a>;
> and they lived at the bottom of a well.</p>
>
><p class="story">...</p>
> """
>>>> print(soup)
><html><head><title>The Dormouse's story</title></head>
><body>
><p class="title"><b>The Dormouse's story</b></p>
><p class="story">Once upon a time there were three little sisters; and
> their names were
><a class="sister" href="http://example.com/elsie" id="link1">Elsie</a>,
><a class="sister" href="http://example.com/lacie" id="link2">Lacie</a> and
><a class="sister" href="http://example.com/tillie" id="link3">Tillie</a>;
> and they lived at the bottom of a well.</p>
><p class="story">...</p>
></body></html>
>>>>
>
> Note two distinct changes: firstly, whitespace has been removed, and
> secondly, attributes are reordered (I think alphabetically). There are
> other canonicalizations being done, too.
>
> I'm trying to make some automated changes to a huge number of HTML
> files, with minimal diffs so they're easy to validate. That means that
> spurious changes like these are very much unwanted. Is there a way to
> get BS4 to reconstruct the original precisely?
>
> The mutation itself would be things like finding an anchor tag and
> changing its href attribute. Fairly simple changes, but might alter
> the length of the file (eg changing "http://example.com/" into
> "https://example.com/"). I'd like to do them intelligently rather than
> falling back on element.sourceline and element.sourcepos, but worst
> case, that's what I'll have to do (which would be fiddly).

I'm tempting the Wrath of Zalgo by saying it, but ... regexp?

From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Aug 20 14:06:17 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 04:06:17 +1000
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <Soup-20220820102940@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>
 <Yv/s+uZlhr31IhUq@anomaly>
 <mailman.303.1660940531.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <Soup-20220820102940@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo-HzbkC5=Xe0=GOo6gafa6JqS_x5YxrDkqdw24W2xUsw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 03:27, Stefan Ram <ram at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>
> 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com writes:
> >textual representations.  That way, the following two elements are the
> >same (and similar with a collection of sub-elements in a different order
> >in another document):
>
>   The /elements/ differ. They have the /same/ infoset.

That's the bit that's hard to prove.

>   The OP could edit the files with regexps to create a new version.

To you and Jon, who also suggested this: how would that be beneficial?
With Beautiful Soup, I have the line number and position within the
line where the tag starts; what does a regex give me that I don't have
that way?

>   Soup := BeautifulSoup.
>
>   Then have Soup read both the new version and the old version.
>
>   Then have Soup also edit the old version read in, the same way as
>   the regexps did and verify that now the old version edited by
>   Soup and the new version created using regexps agree.
>
>   Or just use Soup as a tool to show the diffs for visual inspection
>   by having Soup read both the original version and the version edited
>   with regexps. Now both are normalized by Soup and Soup can show the
>   diffs (such a diff feature might not be a part of Soup, but it should
>   not be too much effort to write one using Soup).
>

But as mentioned, the entire problem *is* the normalization, as I have
no proof that it has had no impact on the rendering of the page.
Comparing two normalized versions is no better than my original option
1, whereby I simply ignore the normalization and write out the
reconstructed content.

It's easy if you know for certain that the page is well-formed. Much
harder if you do not - or, as in some cases, if you know the page is
badly-formed.

ChrisA

From barry at barrys-emacs.org  Sat Aug 20 18:04:46 2022
From: barry at barrys-emacs.org (Barry)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2022 23:04:46 +0100
Subject: Python scripts in .exe form
In-Reply-To: <695CDEE2-3B30-42AC-8FD0-8642AB88D7A5@sbcglobal.net>
References: <695CDEE2-3B30-42AC-8FD0-8642AB88D7A5@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <56441F68-50E8-4B70-82DA-E03F8236E9C5@barrys-emacs.org>



> On 20 Aug 2022, at 14:28, Jim Schwartz <jschwar at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> ?What method did you use to create the exe file from your python scripts?  If it was pyinstaller, then it puts the compiled versions of these python scripts in a windows temp folder when you run them. You?ll be able to get the scripts from there. 

The temp file is only for .dll files the python code is in a data block that is appended to the .exe stub.
There are tools that can grab the appended dat and dump it out.
Or atleast should be.

Barry

> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 19, 2022, at 9:51 PM, Mona Lee <monamlee00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I'm pretty new to Python, and I had to do some tinkering because I was running into issues with trying to download a package from PIP and must've caused some issues in my program that I don't know how to fix
>> 
>> 1. It started when I was unable to update PIP to the newest version because of some "Unknown error" (VS Code error - unable to read file - (Unknown(FileSystemError) where I believe some file was not saved in the right location? 
>> 
>> 2. In my command line on VS code there used to be the prefix that looked something like "PS C:\Users\[name]>" but now it is "PS C:\Users\[name]\AppData\Local\Packages\PythonSoftwareFoundation.Python.3.10_qbz5n2kfra8p0\LocalCache\local-packages\Python310\Scripts>
>> 
>> From there I redownloaded my VS code but still have the 2) issue.
>> 
>> also, my scripts are now in the .exe form that I cannot access because "it is either binary or in a unsupported text encoding" I've tried to extract it back into the .py form using pyinstxtractor and decompile-python3 but I can't successfully work these.
>> 
>> 3. also wanted to mention that some of my old Python programs are missing.
>> -- 
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Sat Aug 20 14:16:02 2022
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2022 18:16:02 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>
 <Yv/s+uZlhr31IhUq@anomaly>
 <mailman.303.1660940531.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <Soup-20220820102940@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <CAPTjJmo-HzbkC5=Xe0=GOo6gafa6JqS_x5YxrDkqdw24W2xUsw@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <slrntg2972.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>

On 2022-08-20, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 03:27, Stefan Ram <ram at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com writes:
>> >textual representations.  That way, the following two elements are the
>> >same (and similar with a collection of sub-elements in a different order
>> >in another document):
>>
>>   The /elements/ differ. They have the /same/ infoset.
>
> That's the bit that's hard to prove.
>
>>   The OP could edit the files with regexps to create a new version.
>
> To you and Jon, who also suggested this: how would that be beneficial?
> With Beautiful Soup, I have the line number and position within the
> line where the tag starts; what does a regex give me that I don't have
> that way?

You mean you could use BeautifulSoup to read the file and identify the
bits you want to change by line number and offset, and then you could
use that data to try and update the file, hoping like hell that your
definition of "line" and "offset" are identical to BeautifulSoup's
and that you don't mess up later changes when you do earlier ones (you
could do them in reverse order of line and offset I suppose) and
probably resorting to regexps anyway in order to find the part of the
tag you want to change ...

... or you could avoid all that faff and just do re.sub()?

From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Sat Aug 20 17:51:41 2022
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2022 21:51:41 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>
 <Yv/s+uZlhr31IhUq@anomaly>
 <mailman.303.1660940531.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <Soup-20220820102940@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <CAPTjJmo-HzbkC5=Xe0=GOo6gafa6JqS_x5YxrDkqdw24W2xUsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.310.1661018790.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntg2972.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <sub-20220820195310@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrntg2lrd.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>

On 2022-08-20, Stefan Ram <ram at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu> writes:
>>... or you could avoid all that faff and just do re.sub()?
>
> import bs4
> import re
>
> source = '<a name="b" href="http" accesskey="c"></a>'
>
> # Use Python to change the source, keeping the order of attributes.
>
> result = re.sub( r'href\s*=\s*"http"', r'href="https"', source )
> result = re.sub( r"href\s*=\s*'http'", r"href='https'", result )

You could go a bit harder with the regexp of course, e.g.:

  result = re.sub(
      r"""(<\s*a\s+[^>]*href\s*=\s*)(['"])\s*OLD\s*\2""",
      r"\1\2NEW\2",
      source,
      flags=re.IGNORECASE
  )

> # Now use BeautifulSoup only for the verification of the result.
>
> reference = bs4.BeautifulSoup( source, features="html.parser" )
> for a in reference.find_all( "a" ):
>     if a[ 'href' ]== 'http': a[ 'href' ]='https'
>
> print( bs4.BeautifulSoup( result, features="html.parser" )== reference )

Hmm, yes that seems like a pretty good idea.

From PythonList at DancesWithMice.info  Sat Aug 20 19:46:24 2022
From: PythonList at DancesWithMice.info (dn)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 11:46:24 +1200
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoRbrAqBVKh6kda_biMgxT1dmoRvi+cPGF4T2-9hZCZ2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>
 <CAPTjJmqKz1om04YVgaOgt9gtrqsGbU93s1OK1t6YhtTyLvF=ig@mail.gmail.com>
 <7be37315-9adc-4aac-4598-be122a9c1ca6@DancesWithMice.info>
 <CAPTjJmoRbrAqBVKh6kda_biMgxT1dmoRvi+cPGF4T2-9hZCZ2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <27f23c7c-d167-1d0c-0270-9abe21bee9af@DancesWithMice.info>

On 20/08/2022 12.38, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 10:19, dn <PythonList at danceswithmice.info> wrote:
>> On 20/08/2022 09.01, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 05:12, Barry <barry at barrys-emacs.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 19 Aug 2022, at 19:33, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ?What's the best way to precisely reconstruct an HTML file after
>>>>> parsing it with BeautifulSoup?
...

>>> well. Thanks for trying, anyhow.
>>>
>>> So I'm left with a few options:
>>>
>>> 1) Give up on validation, give up on verification, and just run this
>>> thing on the production site with my fingers crossed
>>> 2) Instead of doing an intelligent reconstruction, just str.replace()
>>> one URL with another within the file
>>> 3) Split the file into lines, find the Nth line (elem.sourceline) and
>>> str.replace that line only
>>> 4) Attempt to use elem.sourceline and elem.sourcepos to find the start
>>> of the tag, manually find the end, and replace one tag with the
>>> reconstructed form.
>>>
>>> I'm inclined to the first option, honestly. The others just seem like
>>> hard work, and I became a programmer so I could be lazy...
>> +1 - but I've noticed that sometimes I have to work quite hard to be
>> this lazy!
> 
> Yeah, that's very true...
> 
>> Am assuming that http -> https is not the only 'change' (if it were,
>> you'd just do that without BS). How many such changes are planned/need
>> checking? Care to list them?

This project has many of the same 'smells' as a database-harmonisation
effort. Particularly one where 'the previous guy' used to use field-X
for certain data, but his replacement decided that field-Y 'sounded
better' (or some such user-logic). Arrrggghhhh!

If you like head-aches, and users coming to you with ifs-buts-and-maybes
AFTER you've 'done stuff', this is your sort of project!


> Assumption is correct. The changes are more of the form "find all the
> problems, add to the list of fixes, try to minimize the ones that need
> to be done manually". So far, what I have is:

Having taken the trouble to identify this list of improvements and given
the determination to verify each, consider working through one item at a
time, rather than in a single pass. This will enable individual logging
of changes, a manual check of each alteration, and the ability to
choose/tailor the best tool for that specific task.

In fact, depending upon frequency, making the changes manually (and with
improved confidence in the result).

The presence of (or allusion to) the word "some" in this list-items is
'the killer'. Automation doesn't like 'some' (cf "all") unless the
criteria can be clearly and unambiguously defined. Ouch!

(I don't think you need to be told any of this, but hey: dreams are free!)


> 1) A bunch of http -> https, but not all of them - only domains where
> I've confirmed that it's valid

The search-criteria is the list of valid domains, rather than the
"http/https" which is likely the first focus.


> 2) Some absolute to relative conversions:
> https://www.gsarchive.net/whowaswho/index.htm should be referred to as
> /whowaswho/index.htm instead

Similarly, if you have a list of these.


> 3) A few outdated URLs for which we know the replacement, eg
> http://www.cris.com/~oakapple/gasdisc/<anything> to
> http://www.gasdisc.oakapplepress.com/<anything> (this one can't go on
> HTTPS, which is one reason I can't shortcut that)

Again.


> 4) Some internal broken links where the path is wrong - anything that
> resolves to /books/<anything> but can't be found might be better
> rewritten as /html/perf_grps/websites/<anything> if the file can be
> found there

Again.


> 5) Any external link that yields a permanent redirect should, to save
> clientside requests, get replaced by the destination. We have some
> Creative Commons badges that have moved to new URLs.

Do you have these as a list, or are you intending the automated-method
to auto-magically follow the link to determine any need for action?


> And there'll be other fixes to be done too. So it's a bit complicated,
> and no simple solution is really sufficient. At the very very least, I
> *need* to properly parse with BS4; the only question is whether I
> reconstruct from the parse tree, or go back to the raw file and try to
> edit it there.

At least the diffs would give you something to work-from, but it's a bit
like git-diffs claiming a 'change' when the only difference is that my
IDE strips blanks from the ends of code-lines, or some-such silliness.

Which brings me to ask: why "*need* to properly parse with BS4"?

What about selective use of tools, previously-mentioned in this thread?

Is Selenium worthy of consideration?

I'm assuming you've already been using a link-checker utility to locate
the links which need to be changed. They can be used in QA-mode
after-the-fact too.


> For the record, I have very long-term plans to migrate parts of the
> site to Markdown, which would make a lot of things easier. But for
> now, I need to fix the existing problems in the existing HTML files,
> without doing gigantic wholesale layout changes.

...and there's another option. If the Markdown conversion is done first,
it will obviate any option of diffs completely. However, it will
introduce a veritable cornucopia of opportunity for this and 'other
stuff' to go-wrong, bringing us back to a page-by-page check or
broad-checks only, and an appeal to readers to report problems.


The (PM-oriented) observation is that if you are baulking at the amount
of work 'now', you'll be equally dismayed by the consequences of a
subsequent 'Markdown project'!

Perhaps, therefore, some counter-intuitive logic, eg combining the
two/biting two bullets/recognising that many of risks and likelihoods of
error overlap (rather than add/multiply).


'Bit rot' is so common in today's world, do readers treat such
pages/sites particularly differently?

Somewhat conversely, even in our 'release-often, break-early' world, do
users often exert themselves to provide constructive feedback, eg 'link
broken'?

-- 
Regards,
=dn

From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Aug 20 20:43:50 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 10:43:50 +1000
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <slrntg2972.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>
 <Yv/s+uZlhr31IhUq@anomaly>
 <mailman.303.1660940531.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <Soup-20220820102940@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <CAPTjJmo-HzbkC5=Xe0=GOo6gafa6JqS_x5YxrDkqdw24W2xUsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.310.1661018790.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntg2972.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpR2L6MfuOp2NqTs=cXXcRvAs2NsnKEK7VYrxAmEP5BEA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 09:31, Jon Ribbens via Python-list
<python-list at python.org> wrote:
>
> On 2022-08-20, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 03:27, Stefan Ram <ram at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> >> 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com writes:
> >> >textual representations.  That way, the following two elements are the
> >> >same (and similar with a collection of sub-elements in a different order
> >> >in another document):
> >>
> >>   The /elements/ differ. They have the /same/ infoset.
> >
> > That's the bit that's hard to prove.
> >
> >>   The OP could edit the files with regexps to create a new version.
> >
> > To you and Jon, who also suggested this: how would that be beneficial?
> > With Beautiful Soup, I have the line number and position within the
> > line where the tag starts; what does a regex give me that I don't have
> > that way?
>
> You mean you could use BeautifulSoup to read the file and identify the
> bits you want to change by line number and offset, and then you could
> use that data to try and update the file, hoping like hell that your
> definition of "line" and "offset" are identical to BeautifulSoup's
> and that you don't mess up later changes when you do earlier ones (you
> could do them in reverse order of line and offset I suppose) and
> probably resorting to regexps anyway in order to find the part of the
> tag you want to change ...
>
> ... or you could avoid all that faff and just do re.sub()?

Stefan answered in part, but I'll add that it is far FAR easier to do
the analysis with BS4 than regular expressions. I'm not sure what
"hoping like hell" is supposed to mean here, since the line and offset
have been 100% accurate in my experience; the only part I'm unsure
about is where the _end_ of the tag is (and maybe there's a way I can
use BS4 again to get that??).

ChrisA

From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Aug 20 21:00:33 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 11:00:33 +1000
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <27f23c7c-d167-1d0c-0270-9abe21bee9af@DancesWithMice.info>
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>
 <CAPTjJmqKz1om04YVgaOgt9gtrqsGbU93s1OK1t6YhtTyLvF=ig@mail.gmail.com>
 <7be37315-9adc-4aac-4598-be122a9c1ca6@DancesWithMice.info>
 <CAPTjJmoRbrAqBVKh6kda_biMgxT1dmoRvi+cPGF4T2-9hZCZ2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <27f23c7c-d167-1d0c-0270-9abe21bee9af@DancesWithMice.info>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrG2pJYWkcfw1cXLu3MR7-AyUKz9BGnUrise=e8efNL2Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 09:48, dn <PythonList at danceswithmice.info> wrote:
>
> On 20/08/2022 12.38, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 10:19, dn <PythonList at danceswithmice.info> wrote:
> >> On 20/08/2022 09.01, Chris Angelico wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 05:12, Barry <barry at barrys-emacs.org> wrote:
> >>>>> On 19 Aug 2022, at 19:33, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ?What's the best way to precisely reconstruct an HTML file after
> >>>>> parsing it with BeautifulSoup?
> ...
>
> >>> well. Thanks for trying, anyhow.
> >>>
> >>> So I'm left with a few options:
> >>>
> >>> 1) Give up on validation, give up on verification, and just run this
> >>> thing on the production site with my fingers crossed
> >>> 2) Instead of doing an intelligent reconstruction, just str.replace()
> >>> one URL with another within the file
> >>> 3) Split the file into lines, find the Nth line (elem.sourceline) and
> >>> str.replace that line only
> >>> 4) Attempt to use elem.sourceline and elem.sourcepos to find the start
> >>> of the tag, manually find the end, and replace one tag with the
> >>> reconstructed form.
> >>>
> >>> I'm inclined to the first option, honestly. The others just seem like
> >>> hard work, and I became a programmer so I could be lazy...
> >> +1 - but I've noticed that sometimes I have to work quite hard to be
> >> this lazy!
> >
> > Yeah, that's very true...
> >
> >> Am assuming that http -> https is not the only 'change' (if it were,
> >> you'd just do that without BS). How many such changes are planned/need
> >> checking? Care to list them?
>
> This project has many of the same 'smells' as a database-harmonisation
> effort. Particularly one where 'the previous guy' used to use field-X
> for certain data, but his replacement decided that field-Y 'sounded
> better' (or some such user-logic). Arrrggghhhh!
>
> If you like head-aches, and users coming to you with ifs-buts-and-maybes
> AFTER you've 'done stuff', this is your sort of project!

Well, I don't like headaches, but I do appreciate what the G&S Archive
has given me over the years, so I'm taking this on as a means of
giving back to the community.

> > Assumption is correct. The changes are more of the form "find all the
> > problems, add to the list of fixes, try to minimize the ones that need
> > to be done manually". So far, what I have is:
>
> Having taken the trouble to identify this list of improvements and given
> the determination to verify each, consider working through one item at a
> time, rather than in a single pass. This will enable individual logging
> of changes, a manual check of each alteration, and the ability to
> choose/tailor the best tool for that specific task.
>
> In fact, depending upon frequency, making the changes manually (and with
> improved confidence in the result).

Unfortunately the frequency is very high.

> The presence of (or allusion to) the word "some" in this list-items is
> 'the killer'. Automation doesn't like 'some' (cf "all") unless the
> criteria can be clearly and unambiguously defined. Ouch!
>
> (I don't think you need to be told any of this, but hey: dreams are free!)

Right; the criteria are quite well defined, but I omitted the details
for brevity.

> > 1) A bunch of http -> https, but not all of them - only domains where
> > I've confirmed that it's valid
>
> The search-criteria is the list of valid domains, rather than the
> "http/https" which is likely the first focus.

Yeah. I do a first pass to enumerate all domains that are ever linked
to with http:// URLs, and then I have a script that goes through and
checks to see if they redirect me to the same URL on the other
protocol, or other ways of checking. So yes, the list of valid domains
is part of the program's effective input.

> > 2) Some absolute to relative conversions:
> > https://www.gsarchive.net/whowaswho/index.htm should be referred to as
> > /whowaswho/index.htm instead
>
> Similarly, if you have a list of these.

It's more just the pattern "https://www.gsarchive.net/<anything>" and
"https://gsarchive.net/<anything>", and the corresponding "http://"
URLs, plus a few other malformed versions that are worth correcting
(if ever I find a link to "www.gsarchive.net/<anything>", it's almost
certainly missing its protocol).

> > 3) A few outdated URLs for which we know the replacement, eg
> > http://www.cris.com/~oakapple/gasdisc/<anything> to
> > http://www.gasdisc.oakapplepress.com/<anything> (this one can't go on
> > HTTPS, which is one reason I can't shortcut that)
>
> Again.

Same; although those are manually entered as patterns.

> > 4) Some internal broken links where the path is wrong - anything that
> > resolves to /books/<anything> but can't be found might be better
> > rewritten as /html/perf_grps/websites/<anything> if the file can be
> > found there
>
> Again.

The fixups are manually entered, but I also need to know about every
broken internal link so that I can look through them and figure out
what's wrong.

> > 5) Any external link that yields a permanent redirect should, to save
> > clientside requests, get replaced by the destination. We have some
> > Creative Commons badges that have moved to new URLs.
>
> Do you have these as a list, or are you intending the automated-method
> to auto-magically follow the link to determine any need for action?

The same script that checks for http->https conversion probes all
links and checks to see if (a) it returns a perm redirect, or (b) it
returns an error. Fix the first group, log the second, leave anything
else alone.

> > And there'll be other fixes to be done too. So it's a bit complicated,
> > and no simple solution is really sufficient. At the very very least, I
> > *need* to properly parse with BS4; the only question is whether I
> > reconstruct from the parse tree, or go back to the raw file and try to
> > edit it there.
>
> At least the diffs would give you something to work-from, but it's a bit
> like git-diffs claiming a 'change' when the only difference is that my
> IDE strips blanks from the ends of code-lines, or some-such silliness.

Right; and the reconstructed version has a LOT of those unnecessary
changes. I'm seeing a lot of changes to whitespace. The only problem
is whether I can be confident that none of those changes could ever
matter.

> Which brings me to ask: why "*need* to properly parse with BS4"?

Well, there's a *need to properly parse*, because I don't want to
summon "the One whose Name cannot be expressed in the Basic
Multilingual Plane" by using regular expressions on HTML. Am open to
other suggestions; BS4 is the single most obvious one, but by no means
the only way to do things.

> What about selective use of tools, previously-mentioned in this thread?

I've answered the option of regular expressions; did I miss any other
HTML-aware tools being mentioned? If so, my apologies, and feel free
to remind me.

> Is Selenium worthy of consideration?

Yes..... but I don't know how much it would buy me. It certainly has
no options for editing back the original HTML, so all it would do is
the parsing side of things (which is already working fine).

> I'm assuming you've already been using a link-checker utility to locate
> the links which need to be changed. They can be used in QA-mode
> after-the-fact too.

I actually haven't, but only because I figured that the autofixer
would do the same job as the link-checker. Or rather, I wrote my own
link-checker because I needed it to do more. And again, most standard
utilities merely list the problems, they don't have a way to fix them.

> > For the record, I have very long-term plans to migrate parts of the
> > site to Markdown, which would make a lot of things easier. But for
> > now, I need to fix the existing problems in the existing HTML files,
> > without doing gigantic wholesale layout changes.
>
> ...and there's another option. If the Markdown conversion is done first,
> it will obviate any option of diffs completely. However, it will
> introduce a veritable cornucopia of opportunity for this and 'other
> stuff' to go-wrong, bringing us back to a page-by-page check or
> broad-checks only, and an appeal to readers to report problems.

Yeah, and the fundamental problem with the MD conversion is time -
it's a big manual process. I want to be able to do that progressively
over time, but get the basic stuff sorted out much sooner. Ideally, it
should be possible to fix all the autofixable links this week and get
that sorted out, but converting pages to Markdown will happen slowly
over the next few years.

> The (PM-oriented) observation is that if you are baulking at the amount
> of work 'now', you'll be equally dismayed by the consequences of a
> subsequent 'Markdown project'!

Nah, there's no rush on it, and I know from experience how much
benefit it can give :)

> Perhaps, therefore, some counter-intuitive logic, eg combining the
> two/biting two bullets/recognising that many of risks and likelihoods of
> error overlap (rather than add/multiply).

That's true, and for new pages, it's way easier to handle (for
instance, this page https://gsarchive.net/html/dixon.html did not
exist prior to my curatorship - for obvious reasons - and I created it
as a Markdown file).

> 'Bit rot' is so common in today's world, do readers treat such
> pages/sites particularly differently?

That's what I am unsure of, and why I would prefer to make as few
unnecessary changes as possible. However, I am leaning more and more
strongly towards "just let BS4 do its canonicalization", given that
all the alternatives posted here have been worse.

> Somewhat conversely, even in our 'release-often, break-early' world, do
> users often exert themselves to provide constructive feedback, eg 'link
> broken'?

Maybe? But there are always pages that only a few people ever look at
(this is a vast archive and some of its content is *extremely* niche),
so I would prefer to preempt the issues.

Appreciate the thoughts.

ChrisA

From PythonList at DancesWithMice.info  Sat Aug 20 23:39:33 2022
From: PythonList at DancesWithMice.info (dn)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 15:39:33 +1200
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrG2pJYWkcfw1cXLu3MR7-AyUKz9BGnUrise=e8efNL2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>
 <CAPTjJmqKz1om04YVgaOgt9gtrqsGbU93s1OK1t6YhtTyLvF=ig@mail.gmail.com>
 <7be37315-9adc-4aac-4598-be122a9c1ca6@DancesWithMice.info>
 <CAPTjJmoRbrAqBVKh6kda_biMgxT1dmoRvi+cPGF4T2-9hZCZ2w@mail.gmail.com>
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On 21/08/2022 13.00, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 09:48, dn <PythonList at danceswithmice.info> wrote:
>> On 20/08/2022 12.38, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 10:19, dn <PythonList at danceswithmice.info> wrote:
>>>> On 20/08/2022 09.01, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 05:12, Barry <barry at barrys-emacs.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 19 Aug 2022, at 19:33, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>> So I'm left with a few options:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Give up on validation, give up on verification, and just run this
>>>>> thing on the production site with my fingers crossed
>>>>> 2) Instead of doing an intelligent reconstruction, just str.replace()
>>>>> one URL with another within the file
>>>>> 3) Split the file into lines, find the Nth line (elem.sourceline) and
>>>>> str.replace that line only
>>>>> 4) Attempt to use elem.sourceline and elem.sourcepos to find the start
>>>>> of the tag, manually find the end, and replace one tag with the
>>>>> reconstructed form.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm inclined to the first option, honestly. The others just seem like
>>>>> hard work, and I became a programmer so I could be lazy...
>>>> +1 - but I've noticed that sometimes I have to work quite hard to be
>>>> this lazy!
>>>
>>> Yeah, that's very true...
>>>
>>>> Am assuming that http -> https is not the only 'change' (if it were,
>>>> you'd just do that without BS). How many such changes are planned/need
>>>> checking? Care to list them?
>>
>> This project has many of the same 'smells' as a database-harmonisation
>> effort. Particularly one where 'the previous guy' used to use field-X
>> for certain data, but his replacement decided that field-Y 'sounded
>> better' (or some such user-logic). Arrrggghhhh!
>>
>> If you like head-aches, and users coming to you with ifs-buts-and-maybes
>> AFTER you've 'done stuff', this is your sort of project!
> 
> Well, I don't like headaches, but I do appreciate what the G&S Archive
> has given me over the years, so I'm taking this on as a means of
> giving back to the community.

This point will be picked-up in the conclusion. NB in the same way that
you want to 'give back', so also do others - even if in minor ways or
'when-relevant'!


>>> Assumption is correct. The changes are more of the form "find all the
>>> problems, add to the list of fixes, try to minimize the ones that need
>>> to be done manually". So far, what I have is:
>>
>> Having taken the trouble to identify this list of improvements and given
>> the determination to verify each, consider working through one item at a
>> time, rather than in a single pass. This will enable individual logging
>> of changes, a manual check of each alteration, and the ability to
>> choose/tailor the best tool for that specific task.
>>
>> In fact, depending upon frequency, making the changes manually (and with
>> improved confidence in the result).
> 
> Unfortunately the frequency is very high.

Screechingly so? Like you're singing Three Little Maids?


>> The presence of (or allusion to) the word "some" in this list-items is
>> 'the killer'. Automation doesn't like 'some' (cf "all") unless the
>> criteria can be clearly and unambiguously defined. Ouch!
>>
>> (I don't think you need to be told any of this, but hey: dreams are free!)
> 
> Right; the criteria are quite well defined, but I omitted the details
> for brevity.
> 
>>> 1) A bunch of http -> https, but not all of them - only domains where
>>> I've confirmed that it's valid
>>
>> The search-criteria is the list of valid domains, rather than the
>> "http/https" which is likely the first focus.
> 
> Yeah. I do a first pass to enumerate all domains that are ever linked
> to with http:// URLs, and then I have a script that goes through and
> checks to see if they redirect me to the same URL on the other
> protocol, or other ways of checking. So yes, the list of valid domains
> is part of the program's effective input.

Wow! Having got that far, you have achieved data-validity. Is there a
need to perform a before-after check or diff?

Perhaps start making the one-for-one replacements without further
anxiety. As long as there's no silly-mistake, eg failing to remove an
opening or closing angle-bracket; isn't that about all the checking needed?
(for this category of updates)


>>> 2) Some absolute to relative conversions:
>>> https://www.gsarchive.net/whowaswho/index.htm should be referred to as
>>> /whowaswho/index.htm instead
>>
>> Similarly, if you have a list of these.
> 
> It's more just the pattern "https://www.gsarchive.net/<anything>" and
> "https://gsarchive.net/<anything>", and the corresponding "http://"
> URLs, plus a few other malformed versions that are worth correcting
> (if ever I find a link to "www.gsarchive.net/<anything>", it's almost
> certainly missing its protocol).

Isn't the inspection tool (described elsewhere) reporting an HTML/editor
line number?

That being the case, won't a bit of Swiss-Army knife Python-string work
enable appropriate processing and re-writing - as well as providing the
means to statistically-sample for QA?


>>> 3) A few outdated URLs for which we know the replacement, eg
>>> http://www.cris.com/~oakapple/gasdisc/<anything> to
>>> http://www.gasdisc.oakapplepress.com/<anything> (this one can't go on
>>> HTTPS, which is one reason I can't shortcut that)
>>
>> Again.
> 
> Same; although those are manually entered as patterns.

Ah "manual". The trusty IDE/editor as your friend...

Although, if the same pattern appears in multiple places, maybe it would
be possible to create a template-solution, and then apply to specific
filename and line-number combinations?


BTW in talk of "line-number", you will have realised the need to re-run
the identification of such after each of these steps - in case the 'new
stuff' relating to earlier steps (assuming above became also a temporal
sequence) is shorter/longer than the current HTML.


>>> 4) Some internal broken links where the path is wrong - anything that
>>> resolves to /books/<anything> but can't be found might be better
>>> rewritten as /html/perf_grps/websites/<anything> if the file can be
>>> found there
>>
>> Again.
> 
> The fixups are manually entered, but I also need to know about every
> broken internal link so that I can look through them and figure out
> what's wrong.

OK, so it is assumed that the link-checker tool is performing the
problem identification/location, and that's as far as anyone/any
computer, could hope to go.


>>> 5) Any external link that yields a permanent redirect should, to save
>>> clientside requests, get replaced by the destination. We have some
>>> Creative Commons badges that have moved to new URLs.
>>
>> Do you have these as a list, or are you intending the automated-method
>> to auto-magically follow the link to determine any need for action?
> 
> The same script that checks for http->https conversion probes all
> links and checks to see if (a) it returns a perm redirect, or (b) it
> returns an error. Fix the first group, log the second, leave anything
> else alone.

QED!


>>> And there'll be other fixes to be done too. So it's a bit complicated,
>>> and no simple solution is really sufficient. At the very very least, I
>>> *need* to properly parse with BS4; the only question is whether I
>>> reconstruct from the parse tree, or go back to the raw file and try to
>>> edit it there.
>>
>> At least the diffs would give you something to work-from, but it's a bit
>> like git-diffs claiming a 'change' when the only difference is that my
>> IDE strips blanks from the ends of code-lines, or some-such silliness.
> 
> Right; and the reconstructed version has a LOT of those unnecessary
> changes. I'm seeing a lot of changes to whitespace. The only problem
> is whether I can be confident that none of those changes could ever
> matter.

"White-space" has lesser-meaning in HTML - this is NOT Python! In HTML
if I write "HTML  file" (with two spaces), the browser will shorten the
display to a single space (hence some uses of &nbsp; - non-broken
space). Similarly, if attempt to use "\n" to start a new line of text...

Is there a danger of 'chasing your own tail', ie seeking a solution to a
problem which really doesn't matter (particularly if we add the phrase:
at the user-level)?

Which brings-up the question of the efficacy of diffs cf the efficacy of
BS4's contributions?

(see later: statistical QA cf 100% confirmations)


>> Which brings me to ask: why "*need* to properly parse with BS4"?
> 
> Well, there's a *need to properly parse*, because I don't want to
> summon "the One whose Name cannot be expressed in the Basic
> Multilingual Plane" by using regular expressions on HTML. Am open to
> other suggestions; BS4 is the single most obvious one, but by no means
> the only way to do things.

Agree with "properly parse". Question was an apparent dedication to BS4
when there are other tools. Just checking you aren't wearing that type
of 'blinders'.
(didn't think so, but...)


>> What about selective use of tools, previously-mentioned in this thread?
> 
> I've answered the option of regular expressions; did I miss any other
> HTML-aware tools being mentioned? If so, my apologies, and feel free
> to remind me.
> 
>> Is Selenium worthy of consideration?
> 
> Yes..... but I don't know how much it would buy me. It certainly has
> no options for editing back the original HTML, so all it would do is
> the parsing side of things (which is already working fine).

In which case, no gain.
(I probably use it more than BS - but because it is useful to 'test'
web-pages, GUI behavior, etc)

My thinking was to start with [a parser] and deal with a sub-set of the
list of 'problems', one (separate) routine at a time. Either-mentioned
will do the job.

A better 'diff' would not look at the HTML, but compare the web-page's
before and after 'appearances'!
(after all, the link-checker has already figured-out the 'behind the
scenes' part)


>> I'm assuming you've already been using a link-checker utility to locate
>> the links which need to be changed. They can be used in QA-mode
>> after-the-fact too.
> 
> I actually haven't, but only because I figured that the autofixer
> would do the same job as the link-checker. Or rather, I wrote my own
> link-checker because I needed it to do more. And again, most standard
> utilities merely list the problems, they don't have a way to fix them.

Discussed throughout this reply.
(most were written a long, long, time ago - pre-dating the widespread
introduction (and now insistence?) of https, JS advantages, etc)


>>> For the record, I have very long-term plans to migrate parts of the
>>> site to Markdown, which would make a lot of things easier. But for
>>> now, I need to fix the existing problems in the existing HTML files,
>>> without doing gigantic wholesale layout changes.
>>
>> ...and there's another option. If the Markdown conversion is done first,
>> it will obviate any option of diffs completely. However, it will
>> introduce a veritable cornucopia of opportunity for this and 'other
>> stuff' to go-wrong, bringing us back to a page-by-page check or
>> broad-checks only, and an appeal to readers to report problems.
> 
> Yeah, and the fundamental problem with the MD conversion is time -
> it's a big manual process. I want to be able to do that progressively
> over time, but get the basic stuff sorted out much sooner. Ideally, it
> should be possible to fix all the autofixable links this week and get
> that sorted out, but converting pages to Markdown will happen slowly
> over the next few years.

Not something I've ever needed to consider. Are there no tools for this?


>> The (PM-oriented) observation is that if you are baulking at the amount
>> of work 'now', you'll be equally dismayed by the consequences of a
>> subsequent 'Markdown project'!
> 
> Nah, there's no rush on it, and I know from experience how much
> benefit it can give :)

Warning: more 'normal people' know something of HTML, than do of
Markdown. In fact, whereas many people from outside of IT attend our
HTML5 courses (implicit disclaimer!), I'll suggest that if a person
knows Markdown (s)he is at least 85% likely to be in IT.


Another ([in]famous dn off-the-wall) question: have you considered
'crowd-sourcing' the project? There are bound to be members who
particularly favor one operetta or song. If the project were moved to a
wiki or software like WordPress, would individual members be prepared to
copy-paste from 'the old' to 'the new', checking links and copy-pasting
the URL, etc, as they go?

You might then become PM with responsibility for listing all the
existing pages and crossing them off as 'converted'. Also, dealing with
'complicated matters', eg links which the member is unable to replace.

NB I recall (somewhere) a claim (about "distraction" and "consumption"
cf "creativity") that if all Americans were to stop watching
("consuming") TV for a single weekend, it would release sufficient time
to "create" Wikipedia in its entirety.


>> Perhaps, therefore, some counter-intuitive logic, eg combining the
>> two/biting two bullets/recognising that many of risks and likelihoods of
>> error overlap (rather than add/multiply).
> 
> That's true, and for new pages, it's way easier to handle (for
> instance, this page https://gsarchive.net/html/dixon.html did not
> exist prior to my curatorship - for obvious reasons - and I created it
> as a Markdown file).

Well, I'm not just a pretty face - and most of the time, not even that!


>> 'Bit rot' is so common in today's world, do readers treat such
>> pages/sites particularly differently?
> 
> That's what I am unsure of, and why I would prefer to make as few
> unnecessary changes as possible. However, I am leaning more and more
> strongly towards "just let BS4 do its canonicalization", given that
> all the alternatives posted here have been worse.

Good!

Remember, the more important measure is what the users/members think -
not how IT-perfect it might be.

This is the opposite of the mantra I (over-)frequently recite to
trainees (particularly those who have just learned JS and think they can
now 'take-over the world'...) "just because we can do it, doesn't make
it a good idea"!

I feel, whilst a modest contribution, almost worthy of G&S!


>> Somewhat conversely, even in our 'release-often, break-early' world, do
>> users often exert themselves to provide constructive feedback, eg 'link
>> broken'?
> 
> Maybe? But there are always pages that only a few people ever look at
> (this is a vast archive and some of its content is *extremely* niche),
> so I would prefer to preempt the issues.
> 
> Appreciate the thoughts.

I'm conscious that some of the thoughts have come from having a
Consulting/PM 'hat' on; whereas others address more technical aspects.

Similarly, is it possible that you are attempting to be "the very model
of a modern Major-General", whilst the service required may be more on
the line about being "very good at [la, la, la; something or other - he
can't remember the words)] and calculus" (IT not invented back in the
days of the Pirates of Penzance)?

Looking at the site, (unkindly-speaking) it is reminiscent of
AOL/GeoCities days. Which is not necessarily 'bad', but is indicative of
a membership who care less about appearances and more about 'the
business' of the group.

Accordingly, and referring back to the responses people have to
dead-lines, and such-like, isn't it *more*-likely that such members will
report 'issues'?

Thus, would inviting such communications, perhaps by putting a 'banner'
on every page, be likely to yield constructive results without
generating (unreasonable) complaint?

In turn, this might mean lowering your personal standards and exceptions
on the 'calculus' side,and  accepting that it may not be perfect AND
assuming that the users are committed to the cause and therefore more
interested in being constructive and part of the improvements project
(than in carping from the side-lines) - rather than trying to make the
work look like that of someone who has given fault-less service for
decades and enjoyed many commensurate promotions, Mr Major-General, sir?

In short (referring back to the 'list of options', above, top), there's
no need to "give up" (and I can't see you allowing yourself to do-so
anyway) but perhaps grant yourself permission to accept a result
(slightly) less than 100%!
(and yes, maybe that is the "lazy" coming-out, but there's also a sense
of YAGNI when investing significant effort into infrequently used
resources/viewed web-pages - maybe apply the 80:20 'rule'?)


Meantime, I'm off to find my boxed-set and play some CDs of 'silly
songs' while I work...
-- 
Regards,
=dn

From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Aug 21 00:25:23 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 14:25:23 +1000
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <3690bf42-8c34-58b2-1c5b-d38eeeb02bc4@DancesWithMice.info>
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On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 13:41, dn <PythonList at danceswithmice.info> wrote:
>
> On 21/08/2022 13.00, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > Well, I don't like headaches, but I do appreciate what the G&S Archive
> > has given me over the years, so I'm taking this on as a means of
> > giving back to the community.
>
> This point will be picked-up in the conclusion. NB in the same way that
> you want to 'give back', so also do others - even if in minor ways or
> 'when-relevant'!

Very true.

> >> In fact, depending upon frequency, making the changes manually (and with
> >> improved confidence in the result).
> >
> > Unfortunately the frequency is very high.
>
> Screechingly so? Like you're singing Three Little Maids?

You don't want to hear me singing that.... although I do recall once
singing Lady Ella's part at a Qwert, to gales of laughter.

> > Yeah. I do a first pass to enumerate all domains that are ever linked
> > to with http:// URLs, and then I have a script that goes through and
> > checks to see if they redirect me to the same URL on the other
> > protocol, or other ways of checking. So yes, the list of valid domains
> > is part of the program's effective input.
>
> Wow! Having got that far, you have achieved data-validity. Is there a
> need to perform a before-after check or diff?

Yes, to ensure that nothing has changed that I *didn't* plan. The
planned changes aren't the problem here, I can verify those elsewhere.

> Perhaps start making the one-for-one replacements without further
> anxiety. As long as there's no silly-mistake, eg failing to remove an
> opening or closing angle-bracket; isn't that about all the checking needed?
> (for this category of updates)

Maybe, but probably not.

> BTW in talk of "line-number", you will have realised the need to re-run
> the identification of such after each of these steps - in case the 'new
> stuff' relating to earlier steps (assuming above became also a temporal
> sequence) is shorter/longer than the current HTML.

Yep, that's not usually a problem.

> >>> And there'll be other fixes to be done too. So it's a bit complicated,
> >>> and no simple solution is really sufficient. At the very very least, I
> >>> *need* to properly parse with BS4; the only question is whether I
> >>> reconstruct from the parse tree, or go back to the raw file and try to
> >>> edit it there.
> >>
> >> At least the diffs would give you something to work-from, but it's a bit
> >> like git-diffs claiming a 'change' when the only difference is that my
> >> IDE strips blanks from the ends of code-lines, or some-such silliness.
> >
> > Right; and the reconstructed version has a LOT of those unnecessary
> > changes. I'm seeing a lot of changes to whitespace. The only problem
> > is whether I can be confident that none of those changes could ever
> > matter.
>
> "White-space" has lesser-meaning in HTML - this is NOT Python! In HTML
> if I write "HTML  file" (with two spaces), the browser will shorten the
> display to a single space (hence some uses of &nbsp; - non-broken
> space). Similarly, if attempt to use "\n" to start a new line of text...

Yes, whitespace has less meaning... except when it doesn't.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/white-space

Text can become preformatted by the styling, and there could be
nothing whatsoever in the HTML page that shows this. I think most of
the HTML files in this site have been created by a WYSIWYG editor,
partly because of clues like a single bold space in a non-bold
sequence of text, and the styles aren't consistent everywhere. Given
that poetry comes up a lot on this site, I wouldn't put it past the
editor to have set a whitespace rule on something.

But I'm probably going to just ignore that and hope that any such
errors are less significant than the current set of broken links.

> Is there a danger of 'chasing your own tail', ie seeking a solution to a
> problem which really doesn't matter (particularly if we add the phrase:
> at the user-level)?

Unfortunately not. I now know of three categories of change that, in
theory, shouldn't affect anything: whitespace, order of attributes
("<a id=... href=...>" becoming "<a href=... id=...>"), and
self-closing tags. Whitespace probably won't matter, until it does.
Order of attributes is absolutely fine.... unless one of them is
miswritten and now we've lost a lot of information about how it ought
to have been written. And self-closing tags are probably
insignificant, but I don't know how browsers handle things like
"<div><p>...<p/></div>" - and I wouldn't know whether the original
intention was for the second one to be a self-closing empty paragraph,
or a miswritten closing tag.

It's easy to say that these changes have no effect on well-formed
HTML. It's less easy to know what browsers will do with ill-formed
HTML.

> Agree with "properly parse". Question was an apparent dedication to BS4
> when there are other tools. Just checking you aren't wearing that type
> of 'blinders'.
> (didn't think so, but...)

No, but there's also always the option of some tool that I've never
heard of! The single most obvious *to me* might not be the best
overall.


> >> Is Selenium worthy of consideration?
> >
> > Yes..... but I don't know how much it would buy me. It certainly has
> > no options for editing back the original HTML, so all it would do is
> > the parsing side of things (which is already working fine).
>
> In which case, no gain.
> (I probably use it more than BS - but because it is useful to 'test'
> web-pages, GUI behavior, etc)

Yeah, that's what it shines at.

> A better 'diff' would not look at the HTML, but compare the web-page's
> before and after 'appearances'!
> (after all, the link-checker has already figured-out the 'behind the
> scenes' part)

In theory, but what constitutes a reasonable change to the appearance?

> > Yeah, and the fundamental problem with the MD conversion is time -
> > it's a big manual process. I want to be able to do that progressively
> > over time, but get the basic stuff sorted out much sooner. Ideally, it
> > should be possible to fix all the autofixable links this week and get
> > that sorted out, but converting pages to Markdown will happen slowly
> > over the next few years.
>
> Not something I've ever needed to consider. Are there no tools for this?

Yes and no. Part of the reason for doing it manually is that you need
to decide what parts go in the individual pages (the Markdown files)
and what belongs in the layout file (a single HTML file).
Deduplication requires a measure of intelligence, especially when it's
not 100% identical on different pages, so you have to figure out what
parameterization is worth doing.

> Warning: more 'normal people' know something of HTML, than do of
> Markdown. In fact, whereas many people from outside of IT attend our
> HTML5 courses (implicit disclaimer!), I'll suggest that if a person
> knows Markdown (s)he is at least 85% likely to be in IT.

Maybe, but it's also far FAR easier to learn Markdown. Here's a web
site that is managed by a digital artist, most definitely not an IT
person: https://devicatoutlet.com/ I helped her get it all set up, and
she edits the Markdown files herself. (And commits and pushes to
GitHub so it can be hosted on GH Pages, which disproves any myths that
git is impossible for non-programmers to use.)

> Another ([in]famous dn off-the-wall) question: have you considered
> 'crowd-sourcing' the project? There are bound to be members who
> particularly favor one operetta or song. If the project were moved to a
> wiki or software like WordPress, would individual members be prepared to
> copy-paste from 'the old' to 'the new', checking links and copy-pasting
> the URL, etc, as they go?

I'd rather move into Markdown than either MediaWiki or Wordpress,
partly because PHP sucks, and partly because it's nearly impossible to
maintain URLs when you do a migration like that. (In the case of the
Markdown files, I do have a special step in the build system to allow
me to force the output file name, but I almost never need it - only
for a few special cases where it's ".htm" instead of ".html" or
something.) Breaking URLs is a major problem.

But once the Markdown system is in place, I absolutely would welcome
people contributing changes in that way. That would end up being part
of the long-term job though.

> NB I recall (somewhere) a claim (about "distraction" and "consumption"
> cf "creativity") that if all Americans were to stop watching
> ("consuming") TV for a single weekend, it would release sufficient time
> to "create" Wikipedia in its entirety.

Yes, because we absolutely NEED a third of a billion lazy people
trying to write content while wanting to just flake :)

> This is the opposite of the mantra I (over-)frequently recite to
> trainees (particularly those who have just learned JS and think they can
> now 'take-over the world'...) "just because we can do it, doesn't make
> it a good idea"!

But taking over the world is so tempting.......

> Similarly, is it possible that you are attempting to be "the very model
> of a modern Major-General", whilst the service required may be more on
> the line about being "very good at [la, la, la; something or other - he
> can't remember the words)] and calculus" (IT not invented back in the
> days of the Pirates of Penzance)?
>
> Looking at the site, (unkindly-speaking) it is reminiscent of
> AOL/GeoCities days. Which is not necessarily 'bad', but is indicative of
> a membership who care less about appearances and more about 'the
> business' of the group.

I think it's more a result of design-by-committee, or rather,
design-by-whoever-feels-like-doing-this (a Charlieocracy of sorts).
For now, I'm maintaining most of that, but hey, if someone looks at
the Markdown version and wants to make improvements, they'd only have
to change the layout file!

> In short (referring back to the 'list of options', above, top), there's
> no need to "give up" (and I can't see you allowing yourself to do-so
> anyway) but perhaps grant yourself permission to accept a result
> (slightly) less than 100%!

I'm absolutely not giving up, and yes, I will accept a result below
100%. What I would like to ensure, if possible, is that I do not
create additional problems while fixing these.

> (and yes, maybe that is the "lazy" coming-out, but there's also a sense
> of YAGNI when investing significant effort into infrequently used
> resources/viewed web-pages - maybe apply the 80:20 'rule'?)
>
>
> Meantime, I'm off to find my boxed-set and play some CDs of 'silly
> songs' while I work...

Enjoy!

ChrisA

From barry at barrys-emacs.org  Sun Aug 21 03:25:58 2022
From: barry at barrys-emacs.org (Barry)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 08:25:58 +0100
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqKz1om04YVgaOgt9gtrqsGbU93s1OK1t6YhtTyLvF=ig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmqKz1om04YVgaOgt9gtrqsGbU93s1OK1t6YhtTyLvF=ig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C771B241-C2FC-4CCA-BFC4-E43A93099098@barrys-emacs.org>



> On 19 Aug 2022, at 22:04, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 05:12, Barry <barry at barrys-emacs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 19 Aug 2022, at 19:33, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?What's the best way to precisely reconstruct an HTML file after
>>> parsing it with BeautifulSoup?
>> 
>> I recall that in bs4 it parses into an object tree and loses the detail of the input.
>> I recently ported from very old bs to bs4 and hit the same issue.
>> So no it will not output the same as went in.
>> 
>> If you can trust the input to be parsed as xml, meaning all the rules of closing
>> tags have been followed. Then I think you can parse and unparse thru xml to
>> do what you want.
>> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, no I can't, this is HTML 4 with a ton of inconsistencies. Oh
> well. Thanks for trying, anyhow.
> 
> So I'm left with a few options:
> 
> 1) Give up on validation, give up on verification, and just run this
> thing on the production site with my fingers crossed

Can you build a beta site with original intack?

Also wonder if using selenium to walk the site may work as a verification step?
I cannot recall if you can get an image of the browser window to do image compares with to look for rendering differences.

From my one task using bs4 I did not see it produce any bad results.
In my case the problems where in the code that built on bs1 using bad assumptions.



> 2) Instead of doing an intelligent reconstruction, just str.replace()
> one URL with another within the file
> 3) Split the file into lines, find the Nth line (elem.sourceline) and
> str.replace that line only
> 4) Attempt to use elem.sourceline and elem.sourcepos to find the start
> of the tag, manually find the end, and replace one tag with the
> reconstructed form.
> 
> I'm inclined to the first option, honestly. The others just seem like
> hard work, and I became a programmer so I could be lazy...
> 
> ChrisA
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Aug 21 04:09:32 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 18:09:32 +1000
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <C771B241-C2FC-4CCA-BFC4-E43A93099098@barrys-emacs.org>
References: <CAPTjJmqKz1om04YVgaOgt9gtrqsGbU93s1OK1t6YhtTyLvF=ig@mail.gmail.com>
 <C771B241-C2FC-4CCA-BFC4-E43A93099098@barrys-emacs.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqQt7XkGx+Le8N+CpJfy9Y+WOHjurCqiWkwGxkSkNS7eQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 17:26, Barry <barry at barrys-emacs.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 19 Aug 2022, at 22:04, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > ?On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 05:12, Barry <barry at barrys-emacs.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>> On 19 Aug 2022, at 19:33, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ?What's the best way to precisely reconstruct an HTML file after
> >>> parsing it with BeautifulSoup?
> >>
> >> I recall that in bs4 it parses into an object tree and loses the detail of the input.
> >> I recently ported from very old bs to bs4 and hit the same issue.
> >> So no it will not output the same as went in.
> >>
> >> If you can trust the input to be parsed as xml, meaning all the rules of closing
> >> tags have been followed. Then I think you can parse and unparse thru xml to
> >> do what you want.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Yeah, no I can't, this is HTML 4 with a ton of inconsistencies. Oh
> > well. Thanks for trying, anyhow.
> >
> > So I'm left with a few options:
> >
> > 1) Give up on validation, give up on verification, and just run this
> > thing on the production site with my fingers crossed
>
> Can you build a beta site with original intack?

In a naive way, a full copy would be quite a few gigabytes. I could
cut that down a good bit by taking only HTML files and the things they
reference, but then we run into the same problem of broken links,
which is what we're here to solve in the first place.

But I would certainly not want to run two copies of the site and then
manually compare.

> Also wonder if using selenium to walk the site may work as a verification step?
> I cannot recall if you can get an image of the browser window to do image compares with to look for rendering differences.

Image recognition won't necessarily even be valid; some of the changes
will have visual consequences (eg a broken image reference now
becoming correct), and as soon as that happens, the whole document can
reflow.

> From my one task using bs4 I did not see it produce any bad results.
> In my case the problems where in the code that built on bs1 using bad assumptions.

Did that get run on perfect HTML, or on messy real-world stuff that
uses quirks mode?

ChrisA

From barry at barrys-emacs.org  Sun Aug 21 10:48:43 2022
From: barry at barrys-emacs.org (Barry)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 15:48:43 +0100
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqQt7XkGx+Le8N+CpJfy9Y+WOHjurCqiWkwGxkSkNS7eQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmqQt7XkGx+Le8N+CpJfy9Y+WOHjurCqiWkwGxkSkNS7eQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1A7CE6A-3E89-4C1E-9B8B-C5939B6C1370@barrys-emacs.org>



> On 21 Aug 2022, at 09:12, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 17:26, Barry <barry at barrys-emacs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 19 Aug 2022, at 22:04, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 05:12, Barry <barry at barrys-emacs.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> On 19 Aug 2022, at 19:33, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?What's the best way to precisely reconstruct an HTML file after
>>>>> parsing it with BeautifulSoup?
>>>> 
>>>> I recall that in bs4 it parses into an object tree and loses the detail of the input.
>>>> I recently ported from very old bs to bs4 and hit the same issue.
>>>> So no it will not output the same as went in.
>>>> 
>>>> If you can trust the input to be parsed as xml, meaning all the rules of closing
>>>> tags have been followed. Then I think you can parse and unparse thru xml to
>>>> do what you want.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yeah, no I can't, this is HTML 4 with a ton of inconsistencies. Oh
>>> well. Thanks for trying, anyhow.
>>> 
>>> So I'm left with a few options:
>>> 
>>> 1) Give up on validation, give up on verification, and just run this
>>> thing on the production site with my fingers crossed
>> 
>> Can you build a beta site with original intack?
> 
> In a naive way, a full copy would be quite a few gigabytes. I could
> cut that down a good bit by taking only HTML files and the things they
> reference, but then we run into the same problem of broken links,
> which is what we're here to solve in the first place.
> 
> But I would certainly not want to run two copies of the site and then
> manually compare.
> 
>> Also wonder if using selenium to walk the site may work as a verification step?
>> I cannot recall if you can get an image of the browser window to do image compares with to look for rendering differences.
> 
> Image recognition won't necessarily even be valid; some of the changes
> will have visual consequences (eg a broken image reference now
> becoming correct), and as soon as that happens, the whole document can
> reflow.
> 
>> From my one task using bs4 I did not see it produce any bad results.
>> In my case the problems where in the code that built on bs1 using bad assumptions.
> 
> Did that get run on perfect HTML, or on messy real-world stuff that
> uses quirks mode?

I small number of messy html pages.

Barry

> 
> ChrisA
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From hjp-python at hjp.at  Sun Aug 21 14:19:07 2022
From: hjp-python at hjp.at (Peter J. Holzer)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 20:19:07 +0200
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <slrntg2lrd.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>
 <Yv/s+uZlhr31IhUq@anomaly>
 <mailman.303.1660940531.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <Soup-20220820102940@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <CAPTjJmo-HzbkC5=Xe0=GOo6gafa6JqS_x5YxrDkqdw24W2xUsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.310.1661018790.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntg2972.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <sub-20220820195310@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <slrntg2lrd.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <20220821181907.2wve4ywkilgkosh6@hjp.at>

On 2022-08-20 21:51:41 -0000, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
> On 2022-08-20, Stefan Ram <ram at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> > Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu> writes:
> >>... or you could avoid all that faff and just do re.sub()?

> > source = '<a name="b" href="http" accesskey="c"></a>'
> >
> > # Use Python to change the source, keeping the order of attributes.
> >
> > result = re.sub( r'href\s*=\s*"http"', r'href="https"', source )
> > result = re.sub( r"href\s*=\s*'http'", r"href='https'", result )

Depending on the content of the site, this might replace some stuff
which is not a link.


> You could go a bit harder with the regexp of course, e.g.:
> 
>   result = re.sub(
>       r"""(<\s*a\s+[^>]*href\s*=\s*)(['"])\s*OLD\s*\2""",

This will fail on:
    <a alt="42 > 23" href="the.answer.html">

The problem can be solved with regular expressions (and given the
constraints I think I would prefer that to using Beautiful Soup), but
getting the regexps right is not trivial, at least in the general case.
It may become a lot easier if you know that certain conventions were
followed (e.g. that ">" was always written as "&gt;") or it may become
even harder when the files contain errors.

        hp

-- 
   _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Story must make more sense than reality.
|_|_) |                    |
| |   | hjp at hjp.at         |    -- Charles Stross, "Creative writing
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |       challenge!"
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From simone.zambonardi at gmail.com  Sun Aug 21 05:11:38 2022
From: simone.zambonardi at gmail.com (simone zambonardi)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 02:11:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: subprocess.popen how wait complete open process
Message-ID: <7c8281be-38d1-45e4-954d-58ffb90ba220n@googlegroups.com>

Hi, I am running a program with the punishment subrocess.Popen(...) what I should do is to stop the script until the launched program is fully open. How can I do this? I used a time.sleep() function but I think there are other ways. Thanks

From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Sun Aug 21 07:24:16 2022
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 11:24:16 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>
 <Yv/s+uZlhr31IhUq@anomaly>
 <mailman.303.1660940531.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <Soup-20220820102940@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <CAPTjJmo-HzbkC5=Xe0=GOo6gafa6JqS_x5YxrDkqdw24W2xUsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.310.1661018790.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntg2972.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <CAPTjJmpR2L6MfuOp2NqTs=cXXcRvAs2NsnKEK7VYrxAmEP5BEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.313.1661042642.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrntg45f0.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>

On 2022-08-21, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 09:31, Jon Ribbens via Python-list
><python-list at python.org> wrote:
>> On 2022-08-20, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 03:27, Stefan Ram <ram at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> >> 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com writes:
>> >> >textual representations.  That way, the following two elements are the
>> >> >same (and similar with a collection of sub-elements in a different order
>> >> >in another document):
>> >>
>> >>   The /elements/ differ. They have the /same/ infoset.
>> >
>> > That's the bit that's hard to prove.
>> >
>> >>   The OP could edit the files with regexps to create a new version.
>> >
>> > To you and Jon, who also suggested this: how would that be beneficial?
>> > With Beautiful Soup, I have the line number and position within the
>> > line where the tag starts; what does a regex give me that I don't have
>> > that way?
>>
>> You mean you could use BeautifulSoup to read the file and identify the
>> bits you want to change by line number and offset, and then you could
>> use that data to try and update the file, hoping like hell that your
>> definition of "line" and "offset" are identical to BeautifulSoup's
>> and that you don't mess up later changes when you do earlier ones (you
>> could do them in reverse order of line and offset I suppose) and
>> probably resorting to regexps anyway in order to find the part of the
>> tag you want to change ...
>>
>> ... or you could avoid all that faff and just do re.sub()?
>
> Stefan answered in part, but I'll add that it is far FAR easier to do
> the analysis with BS4 than regular expressions. I'm not sure what
> "hoping like hell" is supposed to mean here, since the line and offset
> have been 100% accurate in my experience;

Given the string:

    b"\n \r\r\n\v\n\r\xed\xa0\x80\xed\xbc\x9f\xcc\x80e\xc3\xa8?"

what is the line number and offset of the question mark - and does
BeautifulSoup agree with your answer? Does the answer to that second
question change depending on what parser you tell BeautifulSoup to use?

(If your answer is "if the input contains \xed\xa0\x80\xed\xbc\x9f then
I am happy with the program throwing an exception" then feel free to
remove that substring from the question.)

> the only part I'm unsure about is where the _end_ of the tag is (and
> maybe there's a way I can use BS4 again to get that??).

There doesn't seem to be. More to the point, there doesn't seem to be
a way to find out where the *attributes* are, so as I said you'll most
likely end up using regexps anyway.

From pbryan at anode.ca  Sun Aug 21 15:48:07 2022
From: pbryan at anode.ca (Paul Bryan)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 12:48:07 -0700
Subject: subprocess.popen how wait complete open process
In-Reply-To: <7c8281be-38d1-45e4-954d-58ffb90ba220n@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c8281be-38d1-45e4-954d-58ffb90ba220n@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <98631bbb5e1c5c934bcc2d6e6af4005e5c87cd04.camel@anode.ca>

Sometimes, launching subprocesses can seem like punishment. I don't
think there is a standard cross-platform way to know when a launched
asynchronous process is "fully open" (i.e. fully initialized, accepting
user input).

On Sun, 2022-08-21 at 02:11 -0700, simone zambonardi wrote:
> Hi, I am running a program with the punishment subrocess.Popen(...)
> what I should do is to stop the script until the launched program is
> fully open. How can I do this? I used a time.sleep() function but I
> think there are other ways. Thanks


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Aug 21 17:05:08 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2022 07:05:08 +1000
Subject: subprocess.popen how wait complete open process
In-Reply-To: <7c8281be-38d1-45e4-954d-58ffb90ba220n@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c8281be-38d1-45e4-954d-58ffb90ba220n@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpNZqO_3ZwX9oZVnSZSKwNBSgQR2nwqLBBXVh45eAaaLQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 at 05:39, simone zambonardi
<simone.zambonardi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi, I am running a program with the punishment subrocess.Popen(...) what I should do is to stop the script until the launched program is fully open. How can I do this? I used a time.sleep() function but I think there are other ways. Thanks
>

First you have to define "fully open". How would you know?

ChrisA

From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Aug 21 17:19:33 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2022 07:19:33 +1000
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <slrntg45f0.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>
 <Yv/s+uZlhr31IhUq@anomaly>
 <mailman.303.1660940531.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <Soup-20220820102940@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <CAPTjJmo-HzbkC5=Xe0=GOo6gafa6JqS_x5YxrDkqdw24W2xUsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.310.1661018790.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntg2972.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <CAPTjJmpR2L6MfuOp2NqTs=cXXcRvAs2NsnKEK7VYrxAmEP5BEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.313.1661042642.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntg45f0.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqbReuMnn4giHX3741tXvx49sDpTwpX840D3OzLTQzh5Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 at 05:43, Jon Ribbens via Python-list
<python-list at python.org> wrote:
>
> On 2022-08-21, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 09:31, Jon Ribbens via Python-list
> ><python-list at python.org> wrote:
> >> On 2022-08-20, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 03:27, Stefan Ram <ram at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> >> >> 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com writes:
> >> >> >textual representations.  That way, the following two elements are the
> >> >> >same (and similar with a collection of sub-elements in a different order
> >> >> >in another document):
> >> >>
> >> >>   The /elements/ differ. They have the /same/ infoset.
> >> >
> >> > That's the bit that's hard to prove.
> >> >
> >> >>   The OP could edit the files with regexps to create a new version.
> >> >
> >> > To you and Jon, who also suggested this: how would that be beneficial?
> >> > With Beautiful Soup, I have the line number and position within the
> >> > line where the tag starts; what does a regex give me that I don't have
> >> > that way?
> >>
> >> You mean you could use BeautifulSoup to read the file and identify the
> >> bits you want to change by line number and offset, and then you could
> >> use that data to try and update the file, hoping like hell that your
> >> definition of "line" and "offset" are identical to BeautifulSoup's
> >> and that you don't mess up later changes when you do earlier ones (you
> >> could do them in reverse order of line and offset I suppose) and
> >> probably resorting to regexps anyway in order to find the part of the
> >> tag you want to change ...
> >>
> >> ... or you could avoid all that faff and just do re.sub()?
> >
> > Stefan answered in part, but I'll add that it is far FAR easier to do
> > the analysis with BS4 than regular expressions. I'm not sure what
> > "hoping like hell" is supposed to mean here, since the line and offset
> > have been 100% accurate in my experience;
>
> Given the string:
>
>     b"\n \r\r\n\v\n\r\xed\xa0\x80\xed\xbc\x9f\xcc\x80e\xc3\xa8?"
>
> what is the line number and offset of the question mark - and does
> BeautifulSoup agree with your answer? Does the answer to that second
> question change depending on what parser you tell BeautifulSoup to use?

I'm not sure, because I don't know how to ask BS4 about the location
of a question mark. But I replaced that with a tag, and:

>>> raw = b"\n \r\r\n\v\n\r\xed\xa0\x80\xed\xbc\x9f\xcc\x80e\xc3\xa8<body></body>"
>>> from bs4 import BeautifulSoup
>>> soup = BeautifulSoup(raw, "html.parser")
>>> soup.body.sourceline
4
>>> soup.body.sourcepos
12
>>> raw.split(b"\n")[3]
b'\r\xed\xa0\x80\xed\xbc\x9f\xcc\x80e\xc3\xa8<body></body>'
>>> raw.split(b"\n")[3][12:]
b'<body></body>'

So, yes, it seems to be correct. (Slightly odd in that the sourceline
is 1-based but the sourcepos is 0-based, but that is indeed the case,
as confirmed with a much more straight-forward string.)

And yes, it depends on the parser, but I'm using html.parser and it's fine.

> (If your answer is "if the input contains \xed\xa0\x80\xed\xbc\x9f then
> I am happy with the program throwing an exception" then feel free to
> remove that substring from the question.)

Malformed UTF-8 doesn't seem to be a problem. Every file here seems to
be either UTF-8 or ISO-8859, and in the latter case, I'm assuming
8859-1. So I would probably just let this one go through as 8859-1.

> > the only part I'm unsure about is where the _end_ of the tag is (and
> > maybe there's a way I can use BS4 again to get that??).
>
> There doesn't seem to be. More to the point, there doesn't seem to be
> a way to find out where the *attributes* are, so as I said you'll most
> likely end up using regexps anyway.

I'm okay with replacing an entire tag that needs to be changed.
Especially if I can replace just the opening tag, not the contents and
closing tag. And in fact, I may just do that part by scanning for an
unencoded greater-than, on the assumptions that (a) BS4 will correctly
encode any greater-thans in attributes, and (b) if there's a
mis-encoded one in the input, the diff will be small enough to
eyeball, and a human should easily notice that the text has been
massively expanded and duplicated.

ChrisA

From buck.2019 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 21 20:04:41 2022
From: buck.2019 at gmail.com (Buck Evan)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 19:04:41 -0500
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPQx2vc9TvZCnsRURZkYjKLakPXfybLL78q=V1KRCOEb7BYTKw@mail.gmail.com>

I've had much success doing round trips through the lxml.html parser.

https://lxml.de/lxmlhtml.html

I ditched bs for lxml long ago and never regretted it.

If you find that you have a bunch of invalid html that lxml inadvertently
"fixes", I would recommend adding a stutter-step to your project: perform a
noop roundtrip thru lxml on all files. I'd then analyze any diff by
progressively excluding changes via `grep -vP`.
Unless I'm mistaken, all such changes should fall into no more than a dozen
groups.




On Fri, Aug 19, 2022, 1:34 PM Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> What's the best way to precisely reconstruct an HTML file after
> parsing it with BeautifulSoup?
>
> Using the Alice example from the BS4 docs:
>
> >>> html_doc = """<html><head><title>The Dormouse's story</title></head>
> <body>
> <p class="title"><b>The Dormouse's story</b></p>
>
> <p class="story">Once upon a time there were three little sisters; and
> their names were
> <a href="http://example.com/elsie" class="sister" id="link1">Elsie</a>,
> <a href="http://example.com/lacie" class="sister" id="link2">Lacie</a> and
> <a href="http://example.com/tillie" class="sister" id="link3">Tillie</a>;
> and they lived at the bottom of a well.</p>
>
> <p class="story">...</p>
> """
> >>> print(soup)
> <html><head><title>The Dormouse's story</title></head>
> <body>
> <p class="title"><b>The Dormouse's story</b></p>
> <p class="story">Once upon a time there were three little sisters; and
> their names were
> <a class="sister" href="http://example.com/elsie" id="link1">Elsie</a>,
> <a class="sister" href="http://example.com/lacie" id="link2">Lacie</a> and
> <a class="sister" href="http://example.com/tillie" id="link3">Tillie</a>;
> and they lived at the bottom of a well.</p>
> <p class="story">...</p>
> </body></html>
> >>>
>
> Note two distinct changes: firstly, whitespace has been removed, and
> secondly, attributes are reordered (I think alphabetically). There are
> other canonicalizations being done, too.
>
> I'm trying to make some automated changes to a huge number of HTML
> files, with minimal diffs so they're easy to validate. That means that
> spurious changes like these are very much unwanted. Is there a way to
> get BS4 to reconstruct the original precisely?
>
> The mutation itself would be things like finding an anchor tag and
> changing its href attribute. Fairly simple changes, but might alter
> the length of the file (eg changing "http://example.com/" into
> "https://example.com/"). I'd like to do them intelligently rather than
> falling back on element.sourceline and element.sourcepos, but worst
> case, that's what I'll have to do (which would be fiddly).
>
> ChrisA
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Aug 21 23:30:58 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2022 13:30:58 +1000
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <CAPQx2vc9TvZCnsRURZkYjKLakPXfybLL78q=V1KRCOEb7BYTKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPQx2vc9TvZCnsRURZkYjKLakPXfybLL78q=V1KRCOEb7BYTKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrE20GTxO5ZphQ+jv3Y7LiseufY=mtPzC9eGerfyWXMvg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 at 10:04, Buck Evan <buck.2019 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've had much success doing round trips through the lxml.html parser.
>
> https://lxml.de/lxmlhtml.html
>
> I ditched bs for lxml long ago and never regretted it.
>
> If you find that you have a bunch of invalid html that lxml inadvertently "fixes", I would recommend adding a stutter-step to your project: perform a noop roundtrip thru lxml on all files. I'd then analyze any diff by progressively excluding changes via `grep -vP`.
> Unless I'm mistaken, all such changes should fall into no more than a dozen groups.
>

Will this round-trip mutate every single file and reorder the tag
attributes? Because I really don't want to manually eyeball all those
changes.

ChrisA

From drsalists at gmail.com  Sun Aug 21 23:41:43 2022
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 20:41:43 -0700
Subject: subprocess.popen how wait complete open process
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpNZqO_3ZwX9oZVnSZSKwNBSgQR2nwqLBBXVh45eAaaLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7c8281be-38d1-45e4-954d-58ffb90ba220n@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmpNZqO_3ZwX9oZVnSZSKwNBSgQR2nwqLBBXVh45eAaaLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_rT560hTmyaPpKna2E5i4=pmB6efhKsMCrkt3EU=bJqrg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 2:05 PM Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 at 05:39, simone zambonardi
> <simone.zambonardi at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, I am running a program with the punishment subrocess.Popen(...) what
> I should do is to stop the script until the launched program is fully open.
> How can I do this? I used a time.sleep() function but I think there are
> other ways. Thanks
> >
>
> First you have to define "fully open". How would you know?
>

If you're on X11, you could conceivably use:
     xwininfo -tree -root

From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Aug 22 00:01:01 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2022 14:01:01 +1000
Subject: subprocess.popen how wait complete open process
In-Reply-To: <CAGGBd_rT560hTmyaPpKna2E5i4=pmB6efhKsMCrkt3EU=bJqrg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7c8281be-38d1-45e4-954d-58ffb90ba220n@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmpNZqO_3ZwX9oZVnSZSKwNBSgQR2nwqLBBXVh45eAaaLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGGBd_rT560hTmyaPpKna2E5i4=pmB6efhKsMCrkt3EU=bJqrg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo1=J=5m0gLeLu3U3KSc-xO6=1s7DKmNDOdeYd=NLUXUQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 at 13:41, Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 2:05 PM Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 at 05:39, simone zambonardi
>> <simone.zambonardi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi, I am running a program with the punishment subrocess.Popen(...) what I should do is to stop the script until the launched program is fully open. How can I do this? I used a time.sleep() function but I think there are other ways. Thanks
>> >
>>
>> First you have to define "fully open". How would you know?
>
>
> If you're on X11, you could conceivably use:
>      xwininfo -tree -root
>

That's only one possible definition: it has some sort of window. But
to wait until a program is "fully open", you might have to wait past a
splash screen until it has its actual application window. Or maybe
even then, it's not ready for operation. Only the OP can know what
defines "fully open".

ChrisA

From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Aug 22 02:30:00 2022
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2022 08:30:00 +0200
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrE20GTxO5ZphQ+jv3Y7LiseufY=mtPzC9eGerfyWXMvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPQx2vc9TvZCnsRURZkYjKLakPXfybLL78q=V1KRCOEb7BYTKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrE20GTxO5ZphQ+jv3Y7LiseufY=mtPzC9eGerfyWXMvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8b10c2c2-7c64-3dcb-6b0b-7aa2751aa625@web.de>

On 22/08/2022 05:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 at 10:04, Buck Evan <buck.2019 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've had much success doing round trips through the lxml.html parser.
>>
>> https://lxml.de/lxmlhtml.html
>>
>> I ditched bs for lxml long ago and never regretted it.
>>
>> If you find that you have a bunch of invalid html that lxml inadvertently "fixes", I would recommend adding a stutter-step to your project: perform a noop roundtrip thru lxml on all files. I'd then analyze any diff by progressively excluding changes via `grep -vP`.
>> Unless I'm mistaken, all such changes should fall into no more than a dozen groups.
>>
>
> Will this round-trip mutate every single file and reorder the tag
> attributes? Because I really don't want to manually eyeball all those
> changes.

Most certainly not. Reordering is a bs4 feature that is governed by a
formatter. You can easily prevent that attributes are reorderd:

 >>> import bs4
 >>> soup = bs4.BeautifulSoup("""<div beta="1" alpha="2"/>""")
 >>> soup
<html><body><div alpha="2" beta="1"></div></body></html>
 >>> class Formatter(bs4.formatter.HTMLFormatter):
     def attributes(self, tag):
         return [] if tag.attrs is None else list(tag.attrs.items())

 >>> soup.decode(formatter=Formatter())
'<html><body><div beta="1" alpha="2"></div></body></html>'

Blank space is probably removed by the underlying html parser.
It might be possible to make bs4 instantiate the lxml.html.HTMLParser
with remove_blank_text=False, but I didn't try hard enough ;)

That said, for my humble html scraping needs I have ditched bs4 in favor
of lxml and its xpath capabilities.



From eryksun at gmail.com  Mon Aug 22 09:47:06 2022
From: eryksun at gmail.com (Eryk Sun)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2022 08:47:06 -0500
Subject: subprocess.popen how wait complete open process
In-Reply-To: <7c8281be-38d1-45e4-954d-58ffb90ba220n@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c8281be-38d1-45e4-954d-58ffb90ba220n@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1aufyCisB05=DsB9RGFo5fYZk316up5PV_oi4gOd_nusXg@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/21/22, simone zambonardi <simone.zambonardi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, I am running a program with the punishment subrocess.Popen(...) what I
> should do is to stop the script until the launched program is fully open.
> How can I do this? I used a time.sleep() function but I think there are
> other ways. Thanks

In Windows, WaitForInputIdle() waits until a thread in a process
creates one or more windows and its message loop goes idle. Usually
this is the main UI thread. Console processes are not supported.

For example:

import ctypes
import subprocess

user32 = ctypes.WinDLL('user32', use_last_error=True)

INFINITE = 0xFFFF_FFFF
WAIT_FAILED = 0xFFFF_FFFF
WAIT_TIMEOUT = 0x0000_0102

# Waiting on a console process fails with ERROR_NOT_GUI_PROCESS.
# This case be handled in other ways, depending on the need.
ERROR_NOT_GUI_PROCESS = 1471

user32.WaitForInputIdle.restype = ctypes.c_ulong
user32.WaitForInputIdle.argtypes = (ctypes.c_void_p, ctypes.c_ulong)

def wait_for_input_idle(proc, timeout=None):
    if isinstance(proc, subprocess.Popen):
        handle = int(proc._handle)
        args = p.args
    else:
        handle = int(proc)
        args = ''
    if timeout is None:
        timeout_ms = INFINITE
    elif timeout < 0:
        raise ValueError('timeout cannot be negative')
    else:
        timeout_ms = int(timeout * 1000)
        if timeout_ms >= INFINITE:
            raise OverflowError('timeout is too large')
    status = user32.WaitForInputIdle(handle, timeout_ms)
    if status == WAIT_FAILED:
        raise ctypes.WinError(ctypes.get_last_error())
    elif status == WAIT_TIMEOUT:
        raise subprocess.TimeoutExpired(args, timeout)
    assert status == 0
    return


if __name__ == '__main__':
    import time
    t0 = time.time()
    p = subprocess.Popen(['pythonw.exe', '-m', 'idlelib'])

    try:
        wait_for_input_idle(p, 5)
    except:
        p.terminate()
        raise

    wait_time = time.time() - t0
    print(f'wait time: {wait_time:.3f} seconds')
    try:
        p.wait(5)
    except subprocess.TimeoutExpired:
        p.terminate()

From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Sun Aug 21 20:09:01 2022
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2022 00:09:01 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>
 <Yv/s+uZlhr31IhUq@anomaly>
 <mailman.303.1660940531.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <Soup-20220820102940@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <CAPTjJmo-HzbkC5=Xe0=GOo6gafa6JqS_x5YxrDkqdw24W2xUsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.310.1661018790.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntg2972.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <sub-20220820195310@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <slrntg2lrd.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <20220821181907.2wve4ywkilgkosh6@hjp.at>
 <mailman.320.1661105955.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrntg5i8t.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>

On 2022-08-21, Peter J. Holzer <hjp-python at hjp.at> wrote:
> On 2022-08-20 21:51:41 -0000, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
>> On 2022-08-20, Stefan Ram <ram at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> > Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu> writes:
>> >>... or you could avoid all that faff and just do re.sub()?
>
>> > source = '<a name="b" href="http" accesskey="c"></a>'
>> >
>> > # Use Python to change the source, keeping the order of attributes.
>> >
>> > result = re.sub( r'href\s*=\s*"http"', r'href="https"', source )
>> > result = re.sub( r"href\s*=\s*'http'", r"href='https'", result )
>
> Depending on the content of the site, this might replace some stuff
> which is not a link.
>
>> You could go a bit harder with the regexp of course, e.g.:
>> 
>>   result = re.sub(
>>       r"""(<\s*a\s+[^>]*href\s*=\s*)(['"])\s*OLD\s*\2""",
>
> This will fail on:
>     <a alt="42 > 23" href="the.answer.html">

I've seen *a lot* of bad/broken/weird HTML over the years, and I don't
believe I've ever seen anyone do that. (Wrongly putting an 'alt'
attribute on an 'a' element is very common, on the other hand ;-) )

> The problem can be solved with regular expressions (and given the
> constraints I think I would prefer that to using Beautiful Soup), but
> getting the regexps right is not trivial, at least in the general case.

I would like to see the regular expression that could fully parse
general HTML...

From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Sun Aug 21 20:45:56 2022
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2022 00:45:56 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
References: <CAPTjJmoFiJ4V-sfye5OU04=hpRRpWQ_nX0=C+RVQ4QBu5X80PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <04D12A76-92D8-4584-AE6E-AD3072E438EE@barrys-emacs.org>
 <Yv/s+uZlhr31IhUq@anomaly>
 <mailman.303.1660940531.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <Soup-20220820102940@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <CAPTjJmo-HzbkC5=Xe0=GOo6gafa6JqS_x5YxrDkqdw24W2xUsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.310.1661018790.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntg2972.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <CAPTjJmpR2L6MfuOp2NqTs=cXXcRvAs2NsnKEK7VYrxAmEP5BEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.313.1661042642.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntg45f0.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <CAPTjJmqbReuMnn4giHX3741tXvx49sDpTwpX840D3OzLTQzh5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.323.1661116786.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrntg5ke4.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>

On 2022-08-21, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 at 05:43, Jon Ribbens via Python-list
><python-list at python.org> wrote:
>> On 2022-08-21, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 09:31, Jon Ribbens via Python-list
>> ><python-list at python.org> wrote:
>> >> On 2022-08-20, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 at 03:27, Stefan Ram <ram at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> >> >> 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE at potatochowder.com writes:
>> >> >> >textual representations.  That way, the following two elements are the
>> >> >> >same (and similar with a collection of sub-elements in a different order
>> >> >> >in another document):
>> >> >>
>> >> >>   The /elements/ differ. They have the /same/ infoset.
>> >> >
>> >> > That's the bit that's hard to prove.
>> >> >
>> >> >>   The OP could edit the files with regexps to create a new version.
>> >> >
>> >> > To you and Jon, who also suggested this: how would that be beneficial?
>> >> > With Beautiful Soup, I have the line number and position within the
>> >> > line where the tag starts; what does a regex give me that I don't have
>> >> > that way?
>> >>
>> >> You mean you could use BeautifulSoup to read the file and identify the
>> >> bits you want to change by line number and offset, and then you could
>> >> use that data to try and update the file, hoping like hell that your
>> >> definition of "line" and "offset" are identical to BeautifulSoup's
>> >> and that you don't mess up later changes when you do earlier ones (you
>> >> could do them in reverse order of line and offset I suppose) and
>> >> probably resorting to regexps anyway in order to find the part of the
>> >> tag you want to change ...
>> >>
>> >> ... or you could avoid all that faff and just do re.sub()?
>> >
>> > Stefan answered in part, but I'll add that it is far FAR easier to do
>> > the analysis with BS4 than regular expressions. I'm not sure what
>> > "hoping like hell" is supposed to mean here, since the line and offset
>> > have been 100% accurate in my experience;
>>
>> Given the string:
>>
>>     b"\n \r\r\n\v\n\r\xed\xa0\x80\xed\xbc\x9f\xcc\x80e\xc3\xa8?"
>>
>> what is the line number and offset of the question mark - and does
>> BeautifulSoup agree with your answer? Does the answer to that second
>> question change depending on what parser you tell BeautifulSoup to use?
>
> I'm not sure, because I don't know how to ask BS4 about the location
> of a question mark. But I replaced that with a tag, and:
>
>>>> raw = b"\n \r\r\n\v\n\r\xed\xa0\x80\xed\xbc\x9f\xcc\x80e\xc3\xa8<body></body>"
>>>> from bs4 import BeautifulSoup
>>>> soup = BeautifulSoup(raw, "html.parser")
>>>> soup.body.sourceline
> 4
>>>> soup.body.sourcepos
> 12
>>>> raw.split(b"\n")[3]
> b'\r\xed\xa0\x80\xed\xbc\x9f\xcc\x80e\xc3\xa8<body></body>'
>>>> raw.split(b"\n")[3][12:]
> b'<body></body>'
>
> So, yes, it seems to be correct. (Slightly odd in that the sourceline
> is 1-based but the sourcepos is 0-based, but that is indeed the case,
> as confirmed with a much more straight-forward string.)
>
> And yes, it depends on the parser, but I'm using html.parser and it's fine.

Hah, yes, it appears html.parser does an end-run about my lovely
carefully crafted hard case by not even *trying* to work out what
type of line endings the file uses and is just hard-coded to only
recognise "\n" as a line ending.

With the offset though, BeautifulSoup made an arbitrary decision to
use ISO-8859-1 encoding and so when you chopped the bytestring at
that offset it only worked because BeautifulSoup had happened to
choose a 1-byte-per-character encoding. Ironically, *without* the
"\xed\xa0\x80\xed\xbc\x9f" it wouldn't have worked.

>> (If your answer is "if the input contains \xed\xa0\x80\xed\xbc\x9f then
>> I am happy with the program throwing an exception" then feel free to
>> remove that substring from the question.)
>
> Malformed UTF-8 doesn't seem to be a problem. Every file here seems to
> be either UTF-8 or ISO-8859, and in the latter case, I'm assuming
> 8859-1. So I would probably just let this one go through as 8859-1.

It looks like BeautifulSoup is doing something like that, yes.
Personally I would be nervous about some of my files being parsed
as UTF-8 and some of them ISO-8859-1 (due to decoding errors rather
than some of the files actually *being* ISO-8859-1 ;-) )

>> > the only part I'm unsure about is where the _end_ of the tag is (and
>> > maybe there's a way I can use BS4 again to get that??).
>>
>> There doesn't seem to be. More to the point, there doesn't seem to be
>> a way to find out where the *attributes* are, so as I said you'll most
>> likely end up using regexps anyway.
>
> I'm okay with replacing an entire tag that needs to be changed.

Oh, that seems like quite a big change to the original problem.

> Especially if I can replace just the opening tag, not the contents and
> closing tag. And in fact, I may just do that part by scanning for an
> unencoded greater-than, on the assumptions that (a) BS4 will correctly
> encode any greater-thans in attributes,

But your input wasn't created by BeautifulSoup (was it?)

> and (b) if there's a mis-encoded one in the input, the diff will be
> small enough to eyeball, and a human should easily notice that the
> text has been massively expanded and duplicated.

I strongly suggest Stefan Ram's excellent suggestion that, regardless
of how you *make* the change, you can use BeautifulSoup to do a pretty
strong check that the changes effected are both (a) all the ones you
intended and (b) none that you didn't intend.

From monamlee00 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 21 23:21:15 2022
From: monamlee00 at gmail.com (Mona Lee)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 20:21:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python scripts in .exe form
In-Reply-To: <mailman.309.1661001908.20444.python-list@python.org>
References: <695CDEE2-3B30-42AC-8FD0-8642AB88D7A5@sbcglobal.net>
 <9bbeec64-b5ac-44fa-864c-2e7b8eb29a51n@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.309.1661001908.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f9d2c9b4-799c-406a-8f90-72d629525b1en@googlegroups.com>

I didn't create exe files they kind of just appeared I guess? Perhaps somewhere in the process of redownloading my python/visual studio?

My situation is similar to this person's description that I found online
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/62315149/why-are-my-python-packages-being-installed-to-this-strange-folder 

On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 7:25:31 AM UTC-6, Jim Schwartz wrote:
> What method did you use to create the exe file from your python scripts? If it was pyinstaller, then it puts the compiled versions of these python scripts in a windows temp folder when you run them. You?ll be able to get the scripts from there. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 
> 
> > On Aug 19, 2022, at 9:51 PM, Mona Lee wrote:
> > 
> > ?I'm pretty new to Python, and I had to do some tinkering because I was running into issues with trying to download a package from PIP and must've caused some issues in my program that I don't know how to fix
> > 
> > 1. It started when I was unable to update PIP to the newest version because of some "Unknown error" (VS Code error - unable to read file - (Unknown(FileSystemError) where I believe some file was not saved in the right location? 
> > 
> > 2. In my command line on VS code there used to be the prefix that looked something like "PS C:\Users\[name]>" but now it is "PS C:\Users\[name]\AppData\Local\Packages\PythonSoftwareFoundation.Python.3.10_qbz5n2kfra8p0\LocalCache\local-packages\Python310\Scripts> 
> > 
> > From there I redownloaded my VS code but still have the 2) issue. 
> > 
> > also, my scripts are now in the .exe form that I cannot access because "it is either binary or in a unsupported text encoding" I've tried to extract it back into the .py form using pyinstxtractor and decompile-python3 but I can't successfully work these. 
> > 
> > 3. also wanted to mention that some of my old Python programs are missing.
> > -- 
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

From hjp-python at hjp.at  Mon Aug 22 13:56:52 2022
From: hjp-python at hjp.at (Peter J. Holzer)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2022 19:56:52 +0200
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <slrntg5i8t.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
References: <mailman.303.1660940531.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <Soup-20220820102940@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <CAPTjJmo-HzbkC5=Xe0=GOo6gafa6JqS_x5YxrDkqdw24W2xUsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.310.1661018790.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntg2972.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <sub-20220820195310@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <slrntg2lrd.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <20220821181907.2wve4ywkilgkosh6@hjp.at>
 <mailman.320.1661105955.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntg5i8t.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <20220822175652.sldx55xybyhbc45r@hjp.at>

On 2022-08-22 00:09:01 -0000, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
> On 2022-08-21, Peter J. Holzer <hjp-python at hjp.at> wrote:
> > On 2022-08-20 21:51:41 -0000, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
> >>   result = re.sub(
> >>       r"""(<\s*a\s+[^>]*href\s*=\s*)(['"])\s*OLD\s*\2""",
> >
> > This will fail on:
> >     <a alt="42 > 23" href="the.answer.html">
> 
> I've seen *a lot* of bad/broken/weird HTML over the years, and I don't
> believe I've ever seen anyone do that. (Wrongly putting an 'alt'
> attribute on an 'a' element is very common, on the other hand ;-) )

My bad. I meant title, not alt, of course. The unescaped > is completely
standard conforming HTML, however (both HTML 4.01 strict and HTML 5).
You almost never have to escape > - in fact I can't think of any case
right now - and I generally don't (sometimes I do for symmetry with <,
but that's an aesthetic choice, not a technical one).


> > The problem can be solved with regular expressions (and given the
> > constraints I think I would prefer that to using Beautiful Soup), but
> > getting the regexps right is not trivial, at least in the general case.
> 
> I would like to see the regular expression that could fully parse
> general HTML...

That depends on what you mean by "parse".

If you mean "construct a DOM tree", you can't since regular expressions
(in the mathematical sense, not what's implemented by some programming
languages) by definition describe finite automata, and those don't
support recursion.

But if you mean "split into a sequence of tags and PCDATA's (and then
each tag further into its attributes)", that's absolutely possible, and
that's all that is needed here. I don't think I have ever implemented a
complete solution (if only because stuff like <![CDATA[...]]> is
extremely rare), but I should have some Perl code lying around which
worked on a wide variety of HTML. I just have to find it again ...

        hp

-- 
   _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Story must make more sense than reality.
|_|_) |                    |
| |   | hjp at hjp.at         |    -- Charles Stross, "Creative writing
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |       challenge!"
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From hjp-python at hjp.at  Mon Aug 22 14:34:13 2022
From: hjp-python at hjp.at (Peter J. Holzer)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2022 20:34:13 +0200
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <slrntg5ke4.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
References: <Soup-20220820102940@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <CAPTjJmo-HzbkC5=Xe0=GOo6gafa6JqS_x5YxrDkqdw24W2xUsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.310.1661018790.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntg2972.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <CAPTjJmpR2L6MfuOp2NqTs=cXXcRvAs2NsnKEK7VYrxAmEP5BEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.313.1661042642.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntg45f0.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <CAPTjJmqbReuMnn4giHX3741tXvx49sDpTwpX840D3OzLTQzh5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.323.1661116786.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntg5ke4.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <20220822183413.hiqwyn4zd6veeqft@hjp.at>

On 2022-08-22 00:45:56 -0000, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
> With the offset though, BeautifulSoup made an arbitrary decision to
> use ISO-8859-1 encoding and so when you chopped the bytestring at
> that offset it only worked because BeautifulSoup had happened to
> choose a 1-byte-per-character encoding. Ironically, *without* the
> "\xed\xa0\x80\xed\xbc\x9f" it wouldn't have worked.

Actually it would. The unit is bytes if you feed it with bytes, and
characters if you feed it with str. So in any case you can use the
offset on the data you fed to the parser. Maybe not what you expected,
but seems quite useful for what Chris has in mind.

(OTOH it seems that the html parser doesn't heed any <meta charset>
tags, which seems less than ideal for more pedestrian purposes.)

> > So I would probably just let this one go through as 8859-1.
> 
> It looks like BeautifulSoup is doing something like that, yes.
> Personally I would be nervous about some of my files being parsed
> as UTF-8 and some of them ISO-8859-1 (due to decoding errors rather
> than some of the files actually *being* ISO-8859-1 ;-) )

Since none of the syntactically meaningful characters have a code >=
0x80, you can parse HTML at the byte level if you know that it's encoded
in a strict superset of ASCII (which all of the ISO-8859 family and
UTF-8 are). Only if that's not true (e.g. if your files might be UTF-16
(or Shift-JIS  or EUC, if I remember correctly) then you have to know
the the character set.

(By parsing I mean only "create a syntax tree". Obviously you have to
know the encoding to know whether to display ?c3 bc? as ??? or ????.)

        hp

-- 
   _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Story must make more sense than reality.
|_|_) |                    |
| |   | hjp at hjp.at         |    -- Charles Stross, "Creative writing
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |       challenge!"
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From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Mon Aug 22 15:27:28 2022
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2022 19:27:28 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
References: <Soup-20220820102940@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <CAPTjJmo-HzbkC5=Xe0=GOo6gafa6JqS_x5YxrDkqdw24W2xUsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.310.1661018790.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntg2972.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <CAPTjJmpR2L6MfuOp2NqTs=cXXcRvAs2NsnKEK7VYrxAmEP5BEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.313.1661042642.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntg45f0.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <CAPTjJmqbReuMnn4giHX3741tXvx49sDpTwpX840D3OzLTQzh5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.323.1661116786.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntg5ke4.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <20220822183413.hiqwyn4zd6veeqft@hjp.at>
 <mailman.331.1661193261.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrntg7m50.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>

On 2022-08-22, Peter J. Holzer <hjp-python at hjp.at> wrote:
> On 2022-08-22 00:45:56 -0000, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
>> With the offset though, BeautifulSoup made an arbitrary decision to
>> use ISO-8859-1 encoding and so when you chopped the bytestring at
>> that offset it only worked because BeautifulSoup had happened to
>> choose a 1-byte-per-character encoding. Ironically, *without* the
>> "\xed\xa0\x80\xed\xbc\x9f" it wouldn't have worked.
>
> Actually it would. The unit is bytes if you feed it with bytes, and
> characters if you feed it with str.

No it isn't. If you give BeautifulSoup's 'html.parser' bytes as input,
it first chooses an encoding and decodes the bytes before sending that
output to html.parser, which is what provides the offset. So the offsets
it gives are in characters, and you've no simple way of converting that
back to byte offsets.

> (OTOH it seems that the html parser doesn't heed any <meta charset>
> tags, which seems less than ideal for more pedestrian purposes.)

html.parser doesn't accept bytes as input, so it couldn't do anything
with the encoding even if it knew it. BeautifulSoup's 'html.parser'
however does look for and use <meta charset> (using a regexp, natch).

>> It looks like BeautifulSoup is doing something like that, yes.
>> Personally I would be nervous about some of my files being parsed
>> as UTF-8 and some of them ISO-8859-1 (due to decoding errors rather
>> than some of the files actually *being* ISO-8859-1 ;-) )
>
> Since none of the syntactically meaningful characters have a code >=
> 0x80, you can parse HTML at the byte level if you know that it's encoded
> in a strict superset of ASCII (which all of the ISO-8859 family and
> UTF-8 are). Only if that's not true (e.g. if your files might be UTF-16
> (or Shift-JIS  or EUC, if I remember correctly) then you have to know
> the the character set.
>
> (By parsing I mean only "create a syntax tree". Obviously you have to
> know the encoding to know whether to display =ABc3 bc=BB as =AB=FC=BB or =
>=AB=C3=BC=BB.)

But the job here isn't to create a syntax tree. It's to change some of
the content, which for all we know is not ASCII.

From jorgconforte at gmail.com  Tue Aug 23 10:58:48 2022
From: jorgconforte at gmail.com (Jorge Conrado Conforte Conforte)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 11:58:48 -0300
Subject: xarry netcdf message
Message-ID: <CAETjNsAc2uTDngjbfE5vK1cihJFvSHaa2zdoqyCDSU3hQb1dmg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm reading my netcdf data air.2m.mon.ltm.nc.
I used the netcdf4 and I didn't have message when i read my data. But if I
use the xarray I had this message:

/home/conrado/.conda/envs/meuambi/lib/python3.8/site-packages/xarray/backends/plugins.py:61:
RuntimeWarning: Engine 'cfgrib' loading failed:
module 'cfgrib.messages' has no attribute 'DEFAULT_INDEXPATH'
  warnings.warn(f"Engine {name!r} loading failed:\n{ex}", RuntimeWarning)
/home/conrado/.conda/envs/meuambi/lib/python3.8/site-packages/xarray/coding/times.py:673:
SerializationWarning: Unable to decode time axis into full numpy.datetime64
objects, continuing using cftime.datetime objects instead, reason: dates
out of range
  dtype = _decode_cf_datetime_dtype(data, units, calendar, self.use_cftime)
/home/conrado/.conda/envs/meuambi/lib/python3.8/site-packages/xarray/core/indexing.py:423:
SerializationWarning: Unable to decode time axis into full numpy.datetime64
objects, continuing using cftime.datetime objects instead, reason: dates
out of range
  return np.asarray(array[self.key], dtype=None)

What can I do to solve this message.

Thanks,

Conrado

From hjp-python at hjp.at  Tue Aug 23 16:46:35 2022
From: hjp-python at hjp.at (Peter J. Holzer)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 22:46:35 +0200
Subject: Mutating an HTML file with BeautifulSoup
In-Reply-To: <slrntg7m50.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
References: <slrntg2972.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <CAPTjJmpR2L6MfuOp2NqTs=cXXcRvAs2NsnKEK7VYrxAmEP5BEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.313.1661042642.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntg45f0.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <CAPTjJmqbReuMnn4giHX3741tXvx49sDpTwpX840D3OzLTQzh5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.323.1661116786.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntg5ke4.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
 <20220822183413.hiqwyn4zd6veeqft@hjp.at>
 <mailman.331.1661193261.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <slrntg7m50.1krn.jon+usenet@raven.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <20220823204635.tq736zxcqpplcatr@hjp.at>

On 2022-08-22 19:27:28 -0000, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
> On 2022-08-22, Peter J. Holzer <hjp-python at hjp.at> wrote:
> > On 2022-08-22 00:45:56 -0000, Jon Ribbens via Python-list wrote:
> >> With the offset though, BeautifulSoup made an arbitrary decision to
> >> use ISO-8859-1 encoding and so when you chopped the bytestring at
> >> that offset it only worked because BeautifulSoup had happened to
> >> choose a 1-byte-per-character encoding. Ironically, *without* the
> >> "\xed\xa0\x80\xed\xbc\x9f" it wouldn't have worked.
> >
> > Actually it would. The unit is bytes if you feed it with bytes, and
> > characters if you feed it with str.
> 
> No it isn't. If you give BeautifulSoup's 'html.parser' bytes as input,
> it first chooses an encoding and decodes the bytes before sending that
> output to html.parser, which is what provides the offset. So the offsets
> it gives are in characters, and you've no simple way of converting that
> back to byte offsets.

Ah, I see. It "worked" for me because "\xed\xa0\x80\xed\xbc\x9f" isn't
valid UTF-8. So Beautifulsoup decided to ignore the "<meta
charset='utf-8'>" I had inserted before and used ISO-8859-1, providing
me with correct byte offsets. If I replace that gibberish with a correct
UTF-8 sequence (e.g. "\x4B\xC3\xA4\x73\x65") the UTF-8 is decoded and I
get a character offset.


> >> It looks like BeautifulSoup is doing something like that, yes.
> >> Personally I would be nervous about some of my files being parsed
> >> as UTF-8 and some of them ISO-8859-1 (due to decoding errors rather
> >> than some of the files actually *being* ISO-8859-1 ;-) )
> >
> > Since none of the syntactically meaningful characters have a code >=
> > 0x80, you can parse HTML at the byte level if you know that it's encoded
> > in a strict superset of ASCII (which all of the ISO-8859 family and
> > UTF-8 are). Only if that's not true (e.g. if your files might be UTF-16
> > (or Shift-JIS  or EUC, if I remember correctly) then you have to know
> > the the character set.
> >
> > (By parsing I mean only "create a syntax tree". Obviously you have to
> > know the encoding to know whether to display =ABc3 bc=BB as =AB=FC=BB or =
> >=AB=C3=BC=BB.)
> 
> But the job here isn't to create a syntax tree. It's to change some of
> the content, which for all we know is not ASCII.

We know it's URLs, and the canonical form of an URL is ASCII. The URLs
in the files may not be, but if they aren't you'll have to deal with
variants anyway. And the start and end of the attribute can be
determined in any strict superset of ASCII including UTF-8.

        hp

-- 
   _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Story must make more sense than reality.
|_|_) |                    |
| |   | hjp at hjp.at         |    -- Charles Stross, "Creative writing
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |       challenge!"
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From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 23 18:52:37 2022
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 22:52:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: A new version (0.5.0) of python-gnupg has been released.
References: <447311532.9099.1661295157999.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <447311532.9099.1661295157999@mail.yahoo.com>

What Changed?
=============
This is an enhancement and bug-fix release, and all users are encouraged to
upgrade.

Brief summary:

* Fixed #181: Added the ability to pass file paths to encrypt_file, decrypt_file,
? sign_file, verify_file, get_recipients_file and added import_keys_file.

* Fixed #183: Handle FAILURE and UNEXPECTED conditions correctly. Thanks to sebbASF for
? the patch.

* Fixed #185: Handle VALIDSIG arguments more robustly.

* Fixed #188: Remove handling of DECRYPTION_FAILED from Verify code, as not required
? there. Thanks to sebbASF for the patch.

* Fixed #190: Handle KEY_CREATED more robustly.

* Fixed #191: Handle NODATA messages during verification.

* Fixed #196: Don't log chunk data by default, as it could contain sensitive
? information (during decryption, for example).

* Added the ability to pass an environment to the gpg executable. Thanks to Edvard
? Rejthar for the patch.

This release [2] has been signed with my code signing key:

Vinay Sajip (CODE SIGNING KEY) <vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk>
Fingerprint: CA74 9061 914E AC13 8E66 EADB 9147 B477 339A 9B86

Recent changes to PyPI don't show the GPG signature with the download links.
The source code repository is at [1].
An alternative download source where the signatures are available is at [4].
Documentation is available at [5].

As always, your feedback is most welcome (especially bug reports [3],
patches and suggestions for improvement, or any other points via this group).

Enjoy!

Cheers

Vinay Sajip

[1] https://github.com/vsajip/python-gnupg
[2] https://pypi.org/project/python-gnupg/0.5.0
[3] https://github.com/vsajip/python-gnupg/issues
[4] https://github.com/vsajip/python-gnupg/releases/
[5] https://docs.red-dove.com/python-gnupg/

From dioumacorfaye at gmail.com  Tue Aug 23 11:52:48 2022
From: dioumacorfaye at gmail.com (Dioumacor FAYE)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 15:52:48 +0000
Subject: xarry netcdf message
In-Reply-To: <CAETjNsAc2uTDngjbfE5vK1cihJFvSHaa2zdoqyCDSU3hQb1dmg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAETjNsAc2uTDngjbfE5vK1cihJFvSHaa2zdoqyCDSU3hQb1dmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJvz3=cWOd=GhQ73aoS2UbYq82T5obXfWiryOTaRNNkvdkk=0Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, I think you can try this.
I use Python 3.7.11 in jupyter Notebook
import xarray as xr
path = '/media/lpaosf/LPAOSF_DATA/maman/r1mm_r20mm_sdii/
chirps-v2.0.days_p05_r1mm_WA1981-2018.nc'
# Open the NetCDF files in xr.DataSet
r1mm = xr.open_dataset(path)
time=r1mm['time'].data
lon =r1mm['longitude'].data
lat =r1mm['latitude'].data
data_r1mm=r1mm['r1mm'].data

Le mar. 23 ao?t 2022 ? 15:38, Jorge Conrado Conforte Conforte <
jorgconforte at gmail.com> a ?crit :

> Hi,
>
> I'm reading my netcdf data air.2m.mon.ltm.nc.
> I used the netcdf4 and I didn't have message when i read my data. But if I
> use the xarray I had this message:
>
>
> /home/conrado/.conda/envs/meuambi/lib/python3.8/site-packages/xarray/backends/plugins.py:61:
> RuntimeWarning: Engine 'cfgrib' loading failed:
> module 'cfgrib.messages' has no attribute 'DEFAULT_INDEXPATH'
>   warnings.warn(f"Engine {name!r} loading failed:\n{ex}", RuntimeWarning)
>
> /home/conrado/.conda/envs/meuambi/lib/python3.8/site-packages/xarray/coding/times.py:673:
> SerializationWarning: Unable to decode time axis into full numpy.datetime64
> objects, continuing using cftime.datetime objects instead, reason: dates
> out of range
>   dtype = _decode_cf_datetime_dtype(data, units, calendar, self.use_cftime)
>
> /home/conrado/.conda/envs/meuambi/lib/python3.8/site-packages/xarray/core/indexing.py:423:
> SerializationWarning: Unable to decode time axis into full numpy.datetime64
> objects, continuing using cftime.datetime objects instead, reason: dates
> out of range
>   return np.asarray(array[self.key], dtype=None)
>
> What can I do to solve this message.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Conrado
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


-- 
Bien ? vous,
---------------------    ------------------  -----------------
--------------------  -----------------
Dioumacor FAYE doctorant au  LPAOSF/ESP/UCAD/BP 5085 Dakar-Fann, S?n?gal.
Tel labo: (00221) 33 825 93 64
Email: d.faye20171634 at zig.univ.sn <d.fayye20171634 at univ.zig.sn>   Tel:
+221773475098   +221783484308
Physicien en herbe
Pseudo Skype:   dioumacorfaye

From gladstone28 at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 23 07:00:11 2022
From: gladstone28 at hotmail.com (Gladstone Rose)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 11:00:11 +0000
Subject: INSTALLATION DOES NOT WORK FRO GITBASH COMMAND LINE
Message-ID: <BN8PR14MB3411B1601B3CC7691F6DC420A8709@BN8PR14MB3411.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

Why is my installation of Python does not work at the command line for git bash.

I get the following message
bash: python3: command not found

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows


From user at example.net  Wed Aug 24 02:47:05 2022
From: user at example.net (J.O. Aho)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 08:47:05 +0200
Subject: Installation does not work fro GitBash command line
In-Reply-To: <mailman.336.1661321701.20444.python-list@python.org>
References: <BN8PR14MB3411B1601B3CC7691F6DC420A8709@BN8PR14MB3411.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
 <mailman.336.1661321701.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jmlvraFoqklU1@mid.individual.net>


On 23/08/2022 13.00, Gladstone Rose wrote:
> Why is my installation of Python does not work at the command line for git bash.
> 
> I get the following message
> bash: python3: command not found

It can be that you need to use python.exe instead of python3.exe, see my 
work computers response when using git bash:

result from tabbing python:
$ python
python.exe    python3.dll   python3.exe   python39.dll  pythonw.exe

run python3:
$ python3.exe --version
Python was not found; run without arguments to install from the 
Microsoft Store, or disable this shortcut from Settings > Manage App 
Execution Aliases.

run python:
$ python.exe --version
Python 3.9.7


You could always install a proper OS that provides you a bash out of the 
box.

-- 
   //Aho

From mats at wichmann.us  Wed Aug 24 09:22:42 2022
From: mats at wichmann.us (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 07:22:42 -0600
Subject: INSTALLATION DOES NOT WORK FRO GITBASH COMMAND LINE
In-Reply-To: <BN8PR14MB3411B1601B3CC7691F6DC420A8709@BN8PR14MB3411.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BN8PR14MB3411B1601B3CC7691F6DC420A8709@BN8PR14MB3411.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <8e79ae9a-7520-aac3-f309-8de0fdbb61d7@wichmann.us>

On 8/23/22 05:00, Gladstone Rose wrote:
> Why is my installation of Python does not work at the command line for git bash.
> 
> I get the following message
> bash: python3: command not found

The git bash package for Windows is built from msys2, a GNU/Linux type
environment which is only provisioned with tools that are deemed
necessary for the operation of git. Which happens not to include Python.
You can add it there, although it's not entirely trivial, because the
git-bash setup also doesn't include the pacman package manager, which
would make the install trivial.


From kirebrow at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 24 15:54:33 2022
From: kirebrow at yahoo.com (Erik M. Brown)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 15:54:33 -0400
Subject: ImportError: No module named spambayes.resources (line 12 of
 setup_all.py)
References: <011201d8b7f3$5675db50$036191f0$.ref@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <011201d8b7f3$5675db50$036191f0$@yahoo.com>

Is anyone here familiar with SpamBayes?  I am working with legacy 2.4.x
Python code (I'm not a programmer, more of a power user) and I'm attempting
to build the windows binary from the SpamBayes source.  

 

I'm running into an error when attempting to run "setup_all.py", the py2exe
setup script, and I get the following:

 

"ImportError: No module named spambayes.resources (line 12 of setup_all.py)"

 

I'm able to run Spambayes from these source files in Outlook and have the
correct python version, pywin32, as well as py2exe (2.4.x).

 

Any idea on how to resolve this module import error?  I can provide files
and/or more details as well.

 

Thank you all for the help!

 

Take care,

 

Erik Brown

 


From mats at wichmann.us  Wed Aug 24 18:23:02 2022
From: mats at wichmann.us (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 16:23:02 -0600
Subject: ImportError: No module named spambayes.resources (line 12 of
 setup_all.py)
In-Reply-To: <011201d8b7f3$5675db50$036191f0$@yahoo.com>
References: <011201d8b7f3$5675db50$036191f0$.ref@yahoo.com>
 <011201d8b7f3$5675db50$036191f0$@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <91c4fcd1-0309-ba1e-aad5-bd2e58a9f281@wichmann.us>

On 8/24/22 13:54, Erik M. Brown via Python-list wrote:
> Is anyone here familiar with SpamBayes?  I am working with legacy 2.4.x
> Python code (I'm not a programmer, more of a power user) and I'm attempting
> to build the windows binary from the SpamBayes source.  
> 
>  
> 
> I'm running into an error when attempting to run "setup_all.py", the py2exe
> setup script, and I get the following:
> 
>  
> 
> "ImportError: No module named spambayes.resources (line 12 of setup_all.py)"


Wow, that's a blast from the past... I wouldn't hold out too much hope,
we're talking about something that's been on the inactive list for a
decade and a half at least, if memory serves.  Python 2.4 itself dates
to 2004. There does seem to be have been some effort to uplift Spambayes
to Python 3:

https://github.com/mpwillson/spambayes3

but in generic terms: "no module named" is always a path problem.  The
Python that is running and emits that error is looking in a place where
the code it's trying to import... isn't.  If you got it to work in some
scenario, you need to compare the version of Python involved in that
effort, and its paths (sys.path value) vs. what's getting run when you
try to execute the thing that's failing.



From barry at barrys-emacs.org  Thu Aug 25 02:17:44 2022
From: barry at barrys-emacs.org (Barry)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 07:17:44 +0100
Subject: ImportError: No module named spambayes.resources (line 12 of
 setup_all.py)
In-Reply-To: <91c4fcd1-0309-ba1e-aad5-bd2e58a9f281@wichmann.us>
References: <91c4fcd1-0309-ba1e-aad5-bd2e58a9f281@wichmann.us>
Message-ID: <BCBF0625-6E63-4562-B888-EC6DF308F777@barrys-emacs.org>



> On 24 Aug 2022, at 23:25, Mats Wichmann <mats at wichmann.us> wrote:
> 
> ?On 8/24/22 13:54, Erik M. Brown via Python-list wrote:
>> Is anyone here familiar with SpamBayes?  I am working with legacy 2.4.x
>> Python code (I'm not a programmer, more of a power user) and I'm attempting
>> to build the windows binary from the SpamBayes source.  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I'm running into an error when attempting to run "setup_all.py", the py2exe
>> setup script, and I get the following:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "ImportError: No module named spambayes.resources (line 12 of setup_all.py)"
> 
> 
> Wow, that's a blast from the past... I wouldn't hold out too much hope,
> we're talking about something that's been on the inactive list for a
> decade and a half at least, if memory serves.  Python 2.4 itself dates
> to 2004. There does seem to be have been some effort to uplift Spambayes
> to Python 3:
> 
> https://github.com/mpwillson/spambayes3
> 
> but in generic terms: "no module named" is always a path problem.  The
> Python that is running and emits that error is looking in a place where
> the code it's trying to import... isn't.  If you got it to work in some
> scenario, you need to compare the version of Python involved in that
> effort, and its paths (sys.path value) vs. what's getting run when you
> try to execute the thing that's failing.

On fedora I still use spambayes and it works great, but I have it
running under python 2.7. never did take on a port to python 3
I will have to consider that when python 2 finally is removed from fedora,
or use something else.

Barry

> 
> 
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


From nsh531 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 25 10:53:41 2022
From: nsh531 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?16DXqteZINep15jXqNef?=)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 17:53:41 +0300
Subject: [CrowdStrike/falconpy] Why I recieved this output: (Discussion
 #760)+pandas DataFrame error
Message-ID: <CAC8x_z0WPGcFd-yxRvLQsvcpXxk7czezMEwEcY8JAT=H7GVgVA@mail.gmail.com>

Someone here is understanding at pandas?

?????? ??? ?????, 25 ??????? 2022, ??? Joshua Hiller <
notifications at github.com>:

> This is pretty far out of scope, but reviewing the error message in your
> IDE it appears you are passing scalars to the Dataframe. Since there is no
> index, you're given an error. Googling about, several folks who hit this
> error pass the keyword index=[0] and provide a dummy index. Depending on
> your goals, this may not be the correct solution.
>
> ?
> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
> <https://github.com/CrowdStrike/falconpy/discussions/760#discussioncomment-3475300>,
> or unsubscribe
> <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABNBJWOHTGWD54YFK4D4MQTV257SJANCNFSM57SNFC5Q>
> .
> You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID:
> <CrowdStrike/falconpy/repo-discussions/760/comments/3475300 at github.com>
>


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From nsh531 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 25 11:01:42 2022
From: nsh531 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?16DXqteZINep15jXqNef?=)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 18:01:42 +0300
Subject: [CrowdStrike/falconpy] Why I recieved this output: (Discussion
 #760)+pandas DataFrame error
In-Reply-To: <CAC8x_z0WPGcFd-yxRvLQsvcpXxk7czezMEwEcY8JAT=H7GVgVA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC8x_z0WPGcFd-yxRvLQsvcpXxk7czezMEwEcY8JAT=H7GVgVA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC8x_z3C6OoqSQC6wODyC95SY_Ruzn2VN3Q40xY3E7zx843trQ@mail.gmail.com>

2022-08-25 17:53 GMT?+03:00?, ??? ???? <nsh531 at gmail.com>:
> Someone here is understanding at pandas?
>
> ?????? ??? ?????, 25 ??????? 2022, ??? Joshua Hiller <
> notifications at github.com>:
>
>> This is pretty far out of scope, but reviewing the error message in your
>> IDE it appears you are passing scalars to the Dataframe. Since there is
>> no
>> index, you're given an error. Googling about, several folks who hit this
>> error pass the keyword index=[0] and provide a dummy index. Depending on
>> your goals, this may not be the correct solution.
>>
>> ?
>> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
>> <https://github.com/CrowdStrike/falconpy/discussions/760#discussioncomment-3475300>,
>> or unsubscribe
>> <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABNBJWOHTGWD54YFK4D4MQTV257SJANCNFSM57SNFC5Q>
>> .
>> You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID:
>> <CrowdStrike/falconpy/repo-discussions/760/comments/3475300 at github.com>
>>
>
>
> --
> <https://netanel.ml>
>


-- 
 <https://netanel.ml>

From nsh531 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 25 11:51:26 2022
From: nsh531 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?16DXqteZINep15jXqNef?=)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 18:51:26 +0300
Subject: [CrowdStrike/falconpy] Why I recieved this output: (Discussion
 #760)
In-Reply-To: <CrowdStrike/falconpy/repo-discussions/760/comments/3475675@github.com>
References: <CrowdStrike/falconpy/repo-discussions/760@github.com>
 <CrowdStrike/falconpy/repo-discussions/760/comments/3475675@github.com>
Message-ID: <CAC8x_z1MmNkZhGQBMWLw6e-UHaucCxEogrwSbL-7fZPO4gFEjQ@mail.gmail.com>

?????? ??? ?????, 25 ??????? 2022, ??? Joshua Hiller <
notifications at github.com>:

> Hi @NSH531 <https://github.com/NSH531> -
>
> If passing an index doesn't help, you can probably get more assistance
> from the Pandas issue board located here: https://github.com/pandas-dev/
> pandas/issues
>
> ?
> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
> <https://github.com/CrowdStrike/falconpy/discussions/760#discussioncomment-3475675>,
> or unsubscribe
> <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABNBJWNTMFYE4FBSUJ5FGM3V26EJRANCNFSM57SNFC5Q>
> .
> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID:
> <CrowdStrike/falconpy/repo-discussions/760/comments/3475675 at github.com>
>


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<https://netanel.ml>

From nsh531 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 26 01:28:59 2022
From: nsh531 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?16DXqteZINep15jXqNef?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2022 08:28:59 +0300
Subject: Fwd: [pandas-dev/pandas] BUG: I CANT TO RECIEVING OUTPUT FROM
 DATAFRAME (Issue #48256)
In-Reply-To: <CAC8x_z2_ZkK9=bMD6ZwgWnyKPXjPdF_s8ViZn+9yXTuZerP0ew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <pandas-dev/pandas/issues/48256@github.com>
 <pandas-dev/pandas/issues/48256/1227686223@github.com>
 <CAC8x_z2_ZkK9=bMD6ZwgWnyKPXjPdF_s8ViZn+9yXTuZerP0ew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC8x_z3ET3cNsMLSZiHUyEmGKxfMBj53bcS68VDkXY6wYJK3Cw@mail.gmail.com>

------------ ????? ??????? ----------
???: *??? ????* <nsh531 at gmail.com>
?????: ??? ????, 26 ??????? 2022
????: Re: [pandas-dev/pandas] BUG: I CANT TO RECIEVING OUTPUT FROM
DATAFRAME (Issue #48256)
??: pandas-dev/pandas <
reply+ABNBJWPFIL765HHZXPB3L4WBCUBNZEVBNHHFBDBPPU at reply.github.com>
????: pandas-dev/pandas <pandas at noreply.github.com>, Author <
author at noreply.github.com>


I'll do it at sunday

?????? ??? ?????, 25 ??????? 2022, ??? Marco Edward Gorelli <
notifications at github.com>:

> Hi - please make your example reproducible https://matthewrocklin.com/blo
> g/work/2018/02/28/minimal-bug-reports
>
> ?
> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
> <https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/issues/48256#issuecomment-1227686223>,
> or unsubscribe
> <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABNBJWKCADVU75PEQQ42HRDV27D5ZANCNFSM57UJPL2Q>
> .
> You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID:
> <pandas-dev/pandas/issues/48256/1227686223 at github.com>
>


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From estates at hestates.org  Thu Aug 25 08:48:24 2022
From: estates at hestates.org (Fulian Wang)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 12:48:24 +0000
Subject: INSTALLATION DOES NOT WORK FRO GITBASH COMMAND LINE
In-Reply-To: <8e79ae9a-7520-aac3-f309-8de0fdbb61d7@wichmann.us>
References: <BN8PR14MB3411B1601B3CC7691F6DC420A8709@BN8PR14MB3411.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
 <8e79ae9a-7520-aac3-f309-8de0fdbb61d7@wichmann.us>
Message-ID: <MW4PR10MB5838053C84AA74CF3B2F60F2C6729@MW4PR10MB5838.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>

Same to me. I watched the videos online about how to find it. All failed. Finally,I got it accidentally. You just input ?command ?at the screen of your computer. It is at the bottom of screen and next to windows logo. There is a? Type here to search ? . You type? command? then hit ?enter? . ?Command Prompt ? is out.
The picture is attached.

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: Python-list <python-list-bounces+estates=hestates.org at python.org> on behalf of Mats Wichmann <mats at wichmann.us>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2022 8:22:42 AM
To: python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>
Subject: Re: INSTALLATION DOES NOT WORK FRO GITBASH COMMAND LINE

On 8/23/22 05:00, Gladstone Rose wrote:
> Why is my installation of Python does not work at the command line for git bash.
>
> I get the following message
> bash: python3: command not found

The git bash package for Windows is built from msys2, a GNU/Linux type
environment which is only provisioned with tools that are deemed
necessary for the operation of git. Which happens not to include Python.
You can add it there, although it's not entirely trivial, because the
git-bash setup also doesn't include the pacman package manager, which
would make the install trivial.

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

From gheskett at shentel.net  Fri Aug 26 16:37:37 2022
From: gheskett at shentel.net (gene heskett)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2022 16:37:37 -0400
Subject: python 3.10 vs breakage
Message-ID: <ecd9bb42-9907-2680-24fe-b5e7a89671d1@shentel.net>

Greetings all;

Its now become obvious that 3.10 has broken some things. I can't build 
linuxcnc with it. And
Octoprint has quit talking to 3d printers, now pronterface won't buy it, 
can't find a 4.0.7
version of wxPython with it sitting there staring at us.

Whats chances of a fixed version for bookworm? Or even a bugs fixed 
release for bullseye?

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>


From pbryan at anode.ca  Fri Aug 26 16:51:45 2022
From: pbryan at anode.ca (Paul Bryan)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2022 13:51:45 -0700
Subject: python 3.10 vs breakage
In-Reply-To: <ecd9bb42-9907-2680-24fe-b5e7a89671d1@shentel.net>
References: <ecd9bb42-9907-2680-24fe-b5e7a89671d1@shentel.net>
Message-ID: <cdf1314c4723944f53f66b9a346d7473ae903037.camel@anode.ca>

Why can't you build linuxcnc with it? Why has Octoprint quit talking to
3d printers? Why won't pronterface buy it? Why can't you find a 4.0.7
version of wxPython? Why is it sitting there staring at you? What is
bookworm? What is bullseye?

On Fri, 2022-08-26 at 16:37 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
> 
> Its now become obvious that 3.10 has broken some things. I can't
> build 
> linuxcnc with it. And
> Octoprint has quit talking to 3d printers, now pronterface won't buy
> it, 
> can't find a 4.0.7
> version of wxPython with it sitting there staring at us.
> 
> Whats chances of a fixed version for bookworm? Or even a bugs fixed 
> release for bullseye?
> 
> Thanks all.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> ? soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> respectable.
> ? - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
> 


From gheskett at shentel.net  Fri Aug 26 17:36:39 2022
From: gheskett at shentel.net (gene heskett)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2022 17:36:39 -0400
Subject: python 3.10 vs breakage
In-Reply-To: <cdf1314c4723944f53f66b9a346d7473ae903037.camel@anode.ca>
References: <ecd9bb42-9907-2680-24fe-b5e7a89671d1@shentel.net>
 <cdf1314c4723944f53f66b9a346d7473ae903037.camel@anode.ca>
Message-ID: <5c9fbcb7-a3a2-bef6-c54d-05ce0080c202@shentel.net>

On 8/26/22 16:54, Paul Bryan wrote:
> Why can't you build linuxcnc with it? Why has Octoprint quit talking to
> 3d printers? Why won't pronterface buy it? Why can't you find a 4.0.7
> version of wxPython? Why is it sitting there staring at you? What is
> bookworm? What is bullseye?

Bullseye is the current debian-11, buster is last years, bookworm is next.

Linuxcnc builds just fine on armhf buster, with its python-3.9.4. fails 
from 3.10 in bullseye. Pronterface.py can't find wxPython 4.0 or 
greater, with 4.0.7 installed. Octoprint did work, but has now stopped. 
So my 3d printing has become a sneakernet exercise again. Adding 3 to 5 
more steps between OpenCSAD and the printer that will make my designs. 
The error code file from this mornings attempt to run pronterface.py is at

<http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/armhf>

Is there a workaround?

Thank you.
> On Fri, 2022-08-26 at 16:37 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>> Greetings all;
>>
>> Its now become obvious that 3.10 has broken some things. I can't
>> build
>> linuxcnc with it. And
>> Octoprint has quit talking to 3d printers, now pronterface won't buy
>> it,
>> can't find a 4.0.7
>> version of wxPython with it sitting there staring at us.
>>
>> Whats chances of a fixed version for bookworm? Or even a bugs fixed
>> release for bullseye?
>>
>> Thanks all.
>>
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
>> -- 
>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>>  ? soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
>> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
>> respectable.
>>  ? - Louis D. Brandeis
>> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
>>
>


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>


From pbryan at anode.ca  Fri Aug 26 18:05:51 2022
From: pbryan at anode.ca (Paul Bryan)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2022 15:05:51 -0700
Subject: python 3.10 vs breakage
In-Reply-To: <5c9fbcb7-a3a2-bef6-c54d-05ce0080c202@shentel.net>
References: <ecd9bb42-9907-2680-24fe-b5e7a89671d1@shentel.net>
 <cdf1314c4723944f53f66b9a346d7473ae903037.camel@anode.ca>
 <5c9fbcb7-a3a2-bef6-c54d-05ce0080c202@shentel.net>
Message-ID: <93d986335872c295862b55ec78c2046eb6eddd48.camel@anode.ca>

The pronterface README doc [1] recommends Python 3.6, so I'd?say that
it's likely incompatible with changes in Python 3.10. I think your best
option would be to either downgrade to their recommended version of
Python, or file an issue in their GitHub repository to address the
incompatibility.?

[1]?https://github.com/kliment/Printrun/blob/master/README.md

On Fri, 2022-08-26 at 17:36 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/26/22 16:54, Paul Bryan wrote:
> > Why can't you build linuxcnc with it? Why has Octoprint quit
> > talking to
> > 3d printers? Why won't pronterface buy it? Why can't you find a
> > 4.0.7
> > version of wxPython? Why is it sitting there staring at you? What
> > is
> > bookworm? What is bullseye?
> 
> Bullseye is the current debian-11, buster is last years, bookworm is
> next.
> 
> Linuxcnc builds just fine on armhf buster, with its python-3.9.4.
> fails 
> from 3.10 in bullseye. Pronterface.py can't find wxPython 4.0 or 
> greater, with 4.0.7 installed. Octoprint did work, but has now
> stopped. 
> So my 3d printing has become a sneakernet exercise again. Adding 3 to
> 5 
> more steps between OpenCSAD and the printer that will make my
> designs. 
> The error code file from this mornings attempt to run pronterface.py
> is at
> 
> <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/armhf>
> 
> Is there a workaround?
> 
> Thank you.
> > On Fri, 2022-08-26 at 16:37 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> > > Greetings all;
> > > 
> > > Its now become obvious that 3.10 has broken some things. I can't
> > > build
> > > linuxcnc with it. And
> > > Octoprint has quit talking to 3d printers, now pronterface won't
> > > buy
> > > it,
> > > can't find a 4.0.7
> > > version of wxPython with it sitting there staring at us.
> > > 
> > > Whats chances of a fixed version for bookworm? Or even a bugs
> > > fixed
> > > release for bullseye?
> > > 
> > > Thanks all.
> > > 
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> > > -- 
> > > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > > ?? soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> > > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > > respectable.
> > > ?? - Louis D. Brandeis
> > > Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
> > > 
> > 
> 
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.


From torriem at gmail.com  Fri Aug 26 21:29:40 2022
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2022 19:29:40 -0600
Subject: python 3.10 vs breakage
In-Reply-To: <ecd9bb42-9907-2680-24fe-b5e7a89671d1@shentel.net>
References: <ecd9bb42-9907-2680-24fe-b5e7a89671d1@shentel.net>
Message-ID: <24cee955-8d45-4ff8-29ad-a9b17de6e71a@gmail.com>

On 8/26/22 14:37, gene heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
> 
> Its now become obvious that 3.10 has broken some things. I can't build 
> linuxcnc with it. And
> Octoprint has quit talking to 3d printers, now pronterface won't buy it, 
> can't find a 4.0.7
> version of wxPython with it sitting there staring at us.

I have Fedora 35 here, nearing it's end of life. It has Python 3.10.6,
and wxPython 4.0.7.  I installed Pronterface 2.0.0 from the Fedora repos
and it runs fine as near as I can tell.  So there's no inherent
incompatibility with Python 3.10 and wxPython 4.0.7.

> Whats chances of a fixed version for bookworm? Or even a bugs fixed 
> release for bullseye?

Seems like it is a distro-specific problem; I cannot replicate your
error with pronterface on Fedora 35.

I have no idea why octoprint won't work.

From gheskett at shentel.net  Sat Aug 27 01:55:24 2022
From: gheskett at shentel.net (gene heskett)
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2022 01:55:24 -0400
Subject: python 3.10 vs breakage
In-Reply-To: <24cee955-8d45-4ff8-29ad-a9b17de6e71a@gmail.com>
References: <ecd9bb42-9907-2680-24fe-b5e7a89671d1@shentel.net>
 <24cee955-8d45-4ff8-29ad-a9b17de6e71a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d5db07ff-0fc2-3edb-afe8-c05b3962d725@shentel.net>

On 8/26/22 21:35, Michael Torrie wrote:
> On 8/26/22 14:37, gene heskett wrote:
>> Greetings all;
>>
>> Its now become obvious that 3.10 has broken some things. I can't build
>> linuxcnc with it. And
>> Octoprint has quit talking to 3d printers, now pronterface won't buy it,
>> can't find a 4.0.7
>> version of wxPython with it sitting there staring at us.
> I have Fedora 35 here, nearing it's end of life. It has Python 3.10.6,
> and wxPython 4.0.7.  I installed Pronterface 2.0.0 from the Fedora repos
> and it runs fine as near as I can tell.  So there's no inherent
> incompatibility with Python 3.10 and wxPython 4.0.7.
>
>> Whats chances of a fixed version for bookworm? Or even a bugs fixed
>> release for bullseye?
> Seems like it is a distro-specific problem; I cannot replicate your
> error with pronterface on Fedora 35.
>
> I have no idea why octoprint won't work.
This is good to know as it helps to narrow down the battlefield.

Octoprint now gets stuck claiming the printer is continuously requesting 
a repeat of line one,
but It works fine if the gcode file is put on its sd card and printed 
from the printers menu.

Octoprint is supposed to be able to handle more than one printer, but 
this change occurred after
I had plugged in another printer and tried to add it. It was working 
great with a prusa mk3S+.

And I'm trying to resurrect an Ender 5 Plus that has forgotten how to 
use any of the 3 BLTouch's
I have. So I've replaced the head with a volcano version of an E3D-V6 
and have a prox switch
with the wrong logic output mounted in place of the BLTouch. It seems 
amazon is not immune to
ID10T vendors. I ordered npn-no's and got pnp-nc's. Even the label on 
the devices cable is wrong.

The head replacement includes an Orbiter V2 extruder sitting on top of 
the volcano, with me
designing and printing the adapters. but still with the long capricorn 
tube feed to
absorb the jerking on the feed spool the mk3s+ does. Even with the much 
improved grip a bondtech
LGX extruder on the mk3s+ gives, I can still see artifacts of the spool 
jerk as it runs left/right
in the print.

Vertical flex in the head transport suspension rods I believe. So I've 
eliminated that
geometry error on the Ender 5 plus by interposing a fixed length of 
tubing so it doesn't
jerk on the spool as the head moves.

The Dell with an i5 in it had its video out nullified by some noisy 
weather 20 days back,
so I pulled out a 5 amp 5 volt box and hung a rock64/w/4gigs on it to 
run octoprint on, but
it quit working on the mk3s+ when I plugged in the Ender. I'll probably 
have to re-install
it all. Easy enough since I have armbian bullseye's img file here.

The target of all this is production of a woodworking tool using modern 
cnc wood carving and
3d printing, of a device I see selling in the 3 digit price range on 
ebay that you'll hand
down to your great grandkids if they are interested in fine woodworking 
as a means to buy
groceries, good housing and nice wheels.? At my age, I'm that great 
great grandpa. Looking to
supplement my SS in my dotage. A retired broadcast engineer, a C.E.T., 
approaching the end
of my time here as I look at the calendar and see my 88th coming up 
shortly. I'd like to
leave something useful behind. It will take at least 2 working printers 
to keep up with the
output of one of my milling machines if sales materialize. 3d printers 
are not fast. A screw
I can carve in 2 days, takes about 2 weeks to print the rest of it. 
Production, 20 a year, maybe.

Thanks everybody.? Take care and stay well.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>


From gheskett at shentel.net  Sun Aug 28 18:40:17 2022
From: gheskett at shentel.net (gene heskett)
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2022 18:40:17 -0400
Subject: What can I do about this?
Message-ID: <38cb2d9f-9e89-39aa-341a-eee27296a523@shentel.net>

Greatings all;

Persuant to my claim the py3.10 is busted, here is a sample. This is me, 
trying to make
pronterface, inside a venv: When the package manager version will only 
run the gui-less "pronsole"
but nothing else from that all python kit runs as it should or at all.
 From the package-managers install in /usr/share/doc/printrun-common/ I 
copied requirements.txt
into the venv, and ran this command line:

gene at rock64:~/venv$ pip3 install -r requirements.txt
Defaulting to user installation because normal site-packages is not 
writeable
Ignoring pyobjc-framework-Cocoa: markers 'sys_platform == "darwin"' 
don't match your environment
Ignoring pyreadline: markers 'sys_platform == "win32"' don't match your 
environment
Requirement already satisfied: pyserial>=3.0 in 
/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages (from -r requirements.txt (line 1)) (3.5)
Collecting wxPython>=4.1
 ? Using cached wxPython-4.2.0.tar.gz (71.0 MB)
 ? Preparing metadata (setup.py) ... error
 ? error: subprocess-exited-with-error

 ? ? python setup.py egg_info did not run successfully.
 ? ? exit code: 1
 ? ??> [8 lines of output]
 ????? Traceback (most recent call last):
 ??????? File "<string>", line 2, in <module>
 ??????? File "<pip-setuptools-caller>", line 34, in <module>
 ??????? File 
"/tmp/pip-install-c9gmbpsr/wxpython_1a0e096c87d84229b709c31ccb920a24/setup.py", 
line 27, in <module>
 ????????? from buildtools.config import Config, msg, opj, runcmd, 
canGetSOName, getSOName
 ??????? File 
"/tmp/pip-install-c9gmbpsr/wxpython_1a0e096c87d84229b709c31ccb920a24/buildtools/config.py", 
line 30, in <module>
 ????????? from attrdict import AttrDict
 ????? ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'attrdict'
 ????? [end of output]

 ? note: This error originates from a subprocess, and is likely not a 
problem with pip.
error: metadata-generation-failed

? Encountered error while generating package metadata.
??> See above for output.

note: This is an issue with the package mentioned above, not pip.
hint: See above for details.

What do I need to do to fix this? It supposedly works on a rpi4b, but 
this is a rock64, V2,
older stuff with 4 gigs of dram.

Thank you for any help you can toss my way.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.

-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Aug 28 19:30:16 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 09:30:16 +1000
Subject: What can I do about this?
In-Reply-To: <38cb2d9f-9e89-39aa-341a-eee27296a523@shentel.net>
References: <38cb2d9f-9e89-39aa-341a-eee27296a523@shentel.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoUrXyOqCHoUk8xvFMuohYtbu8AYc=Dq0AgMe2P9Hbk5g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 29 Aug 2022 at 08:41, gene heskett <gheskett at shentel.net> wrote:
>
> Greatings all;
>
> Persuant to my claim the py3.10 is busted, here is a sample. This is me,
> trying to make
> pronterface, inside a venv: When the package manager version will only
> run the gui-less "pronsole"
> but nothing else from that all python kit runs as it should or at all.
>  From the package-managers install in /usr/share/doc/printrun-common/ I
> copied requirements.txt
> into the venv, and ran this command line:
>
> gene at rock64:~/venv$ pip3 install -r requirements.txt
> Defaulting to user installation because normal site-packages is not
> writeable

I don't think Python 3.10 is busted; it's more likely your venv is not
providing a pip3 command. Try "pip3 --version", "python3 --version",
and then "python3 -m pip install -r requirements.txt".

Why do you keep blaming Python as if it's fundamentally broken?

ChrisA

From hjp-python at hjp.at  Sun Aug 28 19:32:01 2022
From: hjp-python at hjp.at (Peter J. Holzer)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 01:32:01 +0200
Subject: What can I do about this?
In-Reply-To: <38cb2d9f-9e89-39aa-341a-eee27296a523@shentel.net>
References: <38cb2d9f-9e89-39aa-341a-eee27296a523@shentel.net>
Message-ID: <20220828233201.k3xmcpdnpn63wxeb@hjp.at>

On 2022-08-28 18:40:17 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> Persuant to my claim the py3.10 is busted, here is a sample. This is me,
> trying to make
> pronterface, inside a venv: When the package manager version will only run
> the gui-less "pronsole"
> but nothing else from that all python kit runs as it should or at all.
> From the package-managers install in /usr/share/doc/printrun-common/ I
> copied requirements.txt
> into the venv, and ran this command line:
> 
> gene at rock64:~/venv$ pip3 install -r requirements.txt

You are almost certainly *not* in a venv here. First, your prompt
doesn't show the name of the venv,

> Defaulting to user installation because normal site-packages is not
> writeable

and second, because of this message, which you don't get if you invoke
pip inside a venv (at least not if you can write it).

So, first thing to do is to create the venv and activate it.

        hp

-- 
   _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Story must make more sense than reality.
|_|_) |                    |
| |   | hjp at hjp.at         |    -- Charles Stross, "Creative writing
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |       challenge!"
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From gheskett at shentel.net  Sun Aug 28 20:45:28 2022
From: gheskett at shentel.net (gene heskett)
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2022 20:45:28 -0400
Subject: What can I do about this?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoUrXyOqCHoUk8xvFMuohYtbu8AYc=Dq0AgMe2P9Hbk5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <38cb2d9f-9e89-39aa-341a-eee27296a523@shentel.net>
 <CAPTjJmoUrXyOqCHoUk8xvFMuohYtbu8AYc=Dq0AgMe2P9Hbk5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e81bd3c6-0002-748f-6ec8-26b7a44a08c6@shentel.net>

On 8/28/22 19:36, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Aug 2022 at 08:41, gene heskett <gheskett at shentel.net> wrote:
>> Greatings all;
>>
>> Persuant to my claim the py3.10 is busted, here is a sample. This is me,
>> trying to make
>> pronterface, inside a venv: When the package manager version will only
>> run the gui-less "pronsole"
>> but nothing else from that all python kit runs as it should or at all.
>>   From the package-managers install in /usr/share/doc/printrun-common/ I
>> copied requirements.txt
>> into the venv, and ran this command line:
>>
>> gene at rock64:~/venv$ pip3 install -r requirements.txt
>> Defaulting to user installation because normal site-packages is not
>> writeable
> I don't think Python 3.10 is busted; it's more likely your venv is not
> providing a pip3 command. Try "pip3 --version",
gene at rock64:~/venv$ pip3 --version
pip 22.0.2 from /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/pip (python 3.10)
>   "python3 --version",
gene at rock64:~/venv$ python3 --version
Python 3.10.4

> and then "python3 -m pip install -r requirements.txt".
gene at rock64:~/venv$ python3 -m pip install -r requirements.txt
Defaulting to user installation because normal site-packages is not 
writeable
Ignoring pyobjc-framework-Cocoa: markers 'sys_platform == "darwin"' 
don't match your environment
Ignoring pyreadline: markers 'sys_platform == "win32"' don't match your 
environment
Requirement already satisfied: pyserial>=3.0 in 
/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages (from -r requirements.txt (line 1)) (3.5)
Collecting wxPython>=4.1
 ? Using cached wxPython-4.2.0.tar.gz (71.0 MB)
 ? Preparing metadata (setup.py) ... error
 ? error: subprocess-exited-with-error

 ? ? python setup.py egg_info did not run successfully.
 ? ? exit code: 1
 ? ??> [8 lines of output]
 ????? Traceback (most recent call last):
 ??????? File "<string>", line 2, in <module>
 ??????? File "<pip-setuptools-caller>", line 34, in <module>
 ??????? File 
"/tmp/pip-install-g3phtj8f/wxpython_17898b1c7a6f49a690adac623d839514/setup.py", 
line 27, in <module>
 ????????? from buildtools.config import Config, msg, opj, runcmd, 
canGetSOName, getSOName
 ??????? File 
"/tmp/pip-install-g3phtj8f/wxpython_17898b1c7a6f49a690adac623d839514/buildtools/config.py", 
line 30, in <module>
 ????????? from attrdict import AttrDict
 ????? ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'attrdict'
 ????? [end of output]

 ? note: This error originates from a subprocess, and is likely not a 
problem with pip.
error: metadata-generation-failed

? Encountered error while generating package metadata.
??> See above for output.

note: This is an issue with the package mentioned above, not pip.
hint: See above for details.

>
> Why do you keep blaming Python as if it's fundamentally broken?
>
> ChrisA
Given the above output, do you have a better target? It also fails to 
build linuxcnc on
bullseye for armhf, on an rpi4b with 2 gigs of dram.
Works perfectly on buster, but I expect that has been fixed? since linuxcnc
looks like its good to go for inclusion in bookworm.

Take care and stay well Chris.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>


From gheskett at shentel.net  Sun Aug 28 20:55:10 2022
From: gheskett at shentel.net (gene heskett)
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2022 20:55:10 -0400
Subject: What can I do about this?
In-Reply-To: <20220828233201.k3xmcpdnpn63wxeb@hjp.at>
References: <38cb2d9f-9e89-39aa-341a-eee27296a523@shentel.net>
 <20220828233201.k3xmcpdnpn63wxeb@hjp.at>
Message-ID: <96f5d626-5ebb-67a7-c7a7-1c6c5284fb1a@shentel.net>

On 8/28/22 19:39, Peter J. Holzer wrote:
> On 2022-08-28 18:40:17 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>> Persuant to my claim the py3.10 is busted, here is a sample. This is me,
>> trying to make
>> pronterface, inside a venv: When the package manager version will only run
>> the gui-less "pronsole"
>> but nothing else from that all python kit runs as it should or at all.
>>  From the package-managers install in /usr/share/doc/printrun-common/ I
>> copied requirements.txt
>> into the venv, and ran this command line:
>>
>> gene at rock64:~/venv$ pip3 install -r requirements.txt
> You are almost certainly *not* in a venv here. First, your prompt
> doesn't show the name of the venv,
I've created that several times, as octoprint won''t run without it either.
I found a way to autostart it on reboots and octoprint seems happy with it
>> Defaulting to user installation because normal site-packages is not
>> writeable
> and second, because of this message, which you don't get if you invoke
> pip inside a venv (at least not if you can write it).
>
> So, first thing to do is to create the venv and activate it.
Procedure? Or a url to it?

Thank you Peter. Take care & stay well.
>          hp
>
>


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>


From nntp.mbourne at spamgourmet.com  Sat Aug 27 07:42:13 2022
From: nntp.mbourne at spamgourmet.com (Mark Bourne)
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2022 12:42:13 +0100
Subject: How to make a variable's late binding crosses the module boundary?
References: <06fa821a-2c33-49a2-81e3-6f76dd0a7317n@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <tecvul$926$1@gioia.aioe.org>

Jach Feng wrote:
> I have two files: test.py and test2.py
> --test.py--
> x = 2
> def foo():
>      print(x)
> foo()
> 
> x = 3
> foo()
> 
> --test2.py--
> from test import *
> x = 4
> foo()
> 
> -----
> Run test.py under Winows8.1, I get the expected result:
> e:\MyDocument>py test.py
> 2
> 3
> 
> But when run test2.py, the result is not my expected 2,3,4:-(
> e:\MyDocument>py test2.py
> 2
> 3
> 3
> 
> What to do?

`from test import *` does not link the names in `test2` to those in 
`test`.  It just binds objects bound to names in `test` to the same 
names in `test2`.  A bit like doing:

import test
x = test.x
foo = test.foo
del test

Subsequently assigning a different object to `x` in one module does not 
affect the object assigned to `x` in the other module.  So `x = 4` in 
`test2.py` does not affect the object assigned to `x` in `test.py` - 
that's still `3`.  If you want to do that, you need to import `test` and 
assign to `test.x`, for example:

import test
test.x = 4
test.foo()

-- 
Mark.

From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Sat Aug 27 13:59:31 2022
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2022 13:59:31 -0400
Subject: python 3.10 vs breakage
References: <ecd9bb42-9907-2680-24fe-b5e7a89671d1@shentel.net>
 <cdf1314c4723944f53f66b9a346d7473ae903037.camel@anode.ca>
 <5c9fbcb7-a3a2-bef6-c54d-05ce0080c202@shentel.net>
 <mailman.348.1661549805.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0nmkghhucnn5eulc85tqlq1b1med0d6ri0@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 17:36:39 -0400, gene heskett <gheskett at shentel.net>
declaimed the following:

>
>Bullseye is the current debian-11, buster is last years, bookworm is next.
>
>Linuxcnc builds just fine on armhf buster, with its python-3.9.4. fails 
>from 3.10 in bullseye. Pronterface.py can't find wxPython 4.0 or 
>greater, with 4.0.7 installed. Octoprint did work, but has now stopped. 
>So my 3d printing has become a sneakernet exercise again. Adding 3 to 5 
>more steps between OpenCSAD and the printer that will make my designs. 

	All of this suggests to me that you need to make your complaints to the
Debian devs WRT how they have configured things (or, if using an R-Pi, the
R-Pi Foundation, as they customize Debian for their release).
.


-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
	wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

From jfong at ms4.hinet.net  Sat Aug 27 21:40:18 2022
From: jfong at ms4.hinet.net (Jach Feng)
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2022 18:40:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to make a variable's late binding crosses the module boundary?
In-Reply-To: <tecvul$926$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <06fa821a-2c33-49a2-81e3-6f76dd0a7317n@googlegroups.com>
 <tecvul$926$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <bc67b292-838c-444c-9914-004391a5523en@googlegroups.com>

Mark Bourne ? 2022?8?27? ?????7:42:37 [UTC+8] ??????
> import test 
> test.x = 4 
> test.foo() 
> 
> -- 
> Mark.
Yes, you are right. But because of I am using "from test import *" which makes the name "test" disappear in the test2 scope, so this is not work.

I solved this problem by moving "x" to a separate config.py file, import it in both test.py and test2.py, and access it using config.x

--Jach

From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Sun Aug 28 19:33:12 2022
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2022 19:33:12 -0400
Subject: What can I do about this?
References: <38cb2d9f-9e89-39aa-341a-eee27296a523@shentel.net>
 <mailman.352.1661726430.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dqtnghpcmavv7ccruqsj6tekvv535t0eu0@4ax.com>

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 18:40:17 -0400, gene heskett <gheskett at shentel.net>
declaimed the following:


>Collecting wxPython>=4.1
> ? Using cached wxPython-4.2.0.tar.gz (71.0 MB)
> ? Preparing metadata (setup.py) ... error
> ? error: subprocess-exited-with-error
>

> ??????? File 
>"/tmp/pip-install-c9gmbpsr/wxpython_1a0e096c87d84229b709c31ccb920a24/buildtools/config.py", 
>line 30, in <module>
> ????????? from attrdict import AttrDict
> ????? ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'attrdict'
> ????? [end of output]
>

	Well... First I'd ask where you obtained a 4.2.0 tar.gz version of
wxPython? Maybe try overriding it with a 4.1 variant of it -- or whatever
you can find in the OS's package manager.
>
>What do I need to do to fix this? It supposedly works on a rpi4b, but 
>this is a rock64, V2,
>older stuff with 4 gigs of dram.
>
>Thank you for any help you can toss my way.
>

	Ask in a forum specific to the OS? Heck, what IS the OS on that board,
and how up-to-date is it? The R-Pi is running a Raspberry Foundation
modified Debian Buster or Bullseye (appears they've pulled Buster, oldest
OS in the archive is January's Bullseye release).

	This does not appear to really be a Python related problem -- rather it
looks like OS misconfiguration/disagreement.

	However, you may wish to review
https://github.com/wxWidgets/Phoenix/issues/2225 

	Python3.10 is, perhaps, too NEW and various third-party libraries have
not been updated to be compatible with IT. Maybe install a version of
Python3.9 and start over loading all those extra packages.


-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
	wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

From Richard at Damon-Family.org  Sun Aug 28 22:46:41 2022
From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon)
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2022 22:46:41 -0400
Subject: How to make a variable's late binding crosses the module boundary?
In-Reply-To: <tecvul$926$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <06fa821a-2c33-49a2-81e3-6f76dd0a7317n@googlegroups.com>
 <tecvul$926$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <a05247e6-79f8-aa69-473f-efc78a323822@Damon-Family.org>

On 8/27/22 7:42 AM, Mark Bourne wrote:
> Jach Feng wrote:
>> I have two files: test.py and test2.py
>> --test.py--
>> x = 2
>> def foo():
>> ???? print(x)
>> foo()
>>
>> x = 3
>> foo()
>>
>> --test2.py--
>> from test import *
>> x = 4
>> foo()
>>
>> -----
>> Run test.py under Winows8.1, I get the expected result:
>> e:\MyDocument>py test.py
>> 2
>> 3
>>
>> But when run test2.py, the result is not my expected 2,3,4:-(
>> e:\MyDocument>py test2.py
>> 2
>> 3
>> 3
>>
>> What to do?
>
> `from test import *` does not link the names in `test2` to those in 
> `test`.? It just binds objects bound to names in `test` to the same 
> names in `test2`.? A bit like doing:
>
> import test
> x = test.x
> foo = test.foo
> del test
>
> Subsequently assigning a different object to `x` in one module does 
> not affect the object assigned to `x` in the other module. So `x = 4` 
> in `test2.py` does not affect the object assigned to `x` in `test.py` 
> - that's still `3`.? If you want to do that, you need to import `test` 
> and assign to `test.x`, for example:
>
> import test
> test.x = 4
> test.foo()
>
Yes, fundamental issue is that the statement

from x import y

makes a binding in this module to the object CURRECTLY bound to x.y to 
the name y, but if x.y gets rebound, this module does not track the changes.

You can mutate the object x.y and see the changes, but not rebind it.

If you need to see rebindings, you can't use the "from x import y" form, 
or at a minimum do it as:


import x

from x import y

then later to get rebindings to x.y do a

y = x.y

to rebind to the current x.y object.

-- 
Richard Damon


From jfong at ms4.hinet.net  Sun Aug 28 23:51:43 2022
From: jfong at ms4.hinet.net (Jach Feng)
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2022 20:51:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to make a variable's late binding crosses the module boundary?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.357.1661741205.20444.python-list@python.org>
References: <06fa821a-2c33-49a2-81e3-6f76dd0a7317n@googlegroups.com>
 <a05247e6-79f8-aa69-473f-efc78a323822@Damon-Family.org>
 <tecvul$926$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.357.1661741205.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1e81aff1-d1e4-48e0-9b48-bc2fcebe38dfn@googlegroups.com>

Richard Damon ? 2022?8?29? ?????10:47:08 [UTC+8] ??????
> On 8/27/22 7:42 AM, Mark Bourne wrote: 
> > Jach Feng wrote: 
> >> I have two files: test.py and test2.py 
> >> --test.py-- 
> >> x = 2 
> >> def foo(): 
> >>      print(x) 
> >> foo() 
> >> 
> >> x = 3 
> >> foo() 
> >> 
> >> --test2.py-- 
> >> from test import * 
> >> x = 4 
> >> foo() 
> >> 
> >> ----- 
> >> Run test.py under Winows8.1, I get the expected result: 
> >> e:\MyDocument>py test.py 
> >> 2 
> >> 3 
> >> 
> >> But when run test2.py, the result is not my expected 2,3,4:-( 
> >> e:\MyDocument>py test2.py 
> >> 2 
> >> 3 
> >> 3 
> >> 
> >> What to do? 
> > 
> > `from test import *` does not link the names in `test2` to those in 
> > `test`.  It just binds objects bound to names in `test` to the same 
> > names in `test2`.  A bit like doing: 
> > 
> > import test 
> > x = test.x 
> > foo = test.foo 
> > del test 
> > 
> > Subsequently assigning a different object to `x` in one module does 
> > not affect the object assigned to `x` in the other module. So `x = 4` 
> > in `test2.py` does not affect the object assigned to `x` in `test.py` 
> > - that's still `3`.  If you want to do that, you need to import `test` 
> > and assign to `test.x`, for example: 
> > 
> > import test 
> > test.x = 4 
> > test.foo() 
> >
> Yes, fundamental issue is that the statement 
> 
> from x import y 
> 
> makes a binding in this module to the object CURRECTLY bound to x.y to 
> the name y, but if x.y gets rebound, this module does not track the changes. 
> 
> You can mutate the object x.y and see the changes, but not rebind it. 
> 
> If you need to see rebindings, you can't use the "from x import y" form, 
> or at a minimum do it as: 
> 
> 
> import x 
> 
> from x import y 
> 
> then later to get rebindings to x.y do a 
> 
> y = x.y 
> 
> to rebind to the current x.y object. 
> 
> -- 
> Richard Damon
Yes, an extra "import x" will solve my problem too! Sometimes I am wondering why "from x import y" hides x? hum...can't figure out the reason:-)

--Jach

From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Aug 29 01:58:22 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 15:58:22 +1000
Subject: How to make a variable's late binding crosses the module boundary?
In-Reply-To: <1e81aff1-d1e4-48e0-9b48-bc2fcebe38dfn@googlegroups.com>
References: <06fa821a-2c33-49a2-81e3-6f76dd0a7317n@googlegroups.com>
 <a05247e6-79f8-aa69-473f-efc78a323822@Damon-Family.org>
 <tecvul$926$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.357.1661741205.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <1e81aff1-d1e4-48e0-9b48-bc2fcebe38dfn@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo0EG20SeTu-nR5unqvrauR-Ora+Yiwa_2EPM=0-2nLdw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 29 Aug 2022 at 15:54, Jach Feng <jfong at ms4.hinet.net> wrote:
>
> Richard Damon ? 2022?8?29? ?????10:47:08 [UTC+8] ??????
> > On 8/27/22 7:42 AM, Mark Bourne wrote:
> > > Jach Feng wrote:
> > >> I have two files: test.py and test2.py
> > >> --test.py--
> > >> x = 2
> > >> def foo():
> > >>      print(x)
> > >> foo()
> > >>
> > >> x = 3
> > >> foo()
> > >>
> > >> --test2.py--
> > >> from test import *
> > >> x = 4
> > >> foo()
> > >>
> > >> -----
> > >> Run test.py under Winows8.1, I get the expected result:
> > >> e:\MyDocument>py test.py
> > >> 2
> > >> 3
> > >>
> > >> But when run test2.py, the result is not my expected 2,3,4:-(
> > >> e:\MyDocument>py test2.py
> > >> 2
> > >> 3
> > >> 3
> > >>
> > >> What to do?
> > >
> > > `from test import *` does not link the names in `test2` to those in
> > > `test`.  It just binds objects bound to names in `test` to the same
> > > names in `test2`.  A bit like doing:
> > >
> > > import test
> > > x = test.x
> > > foo = test.foo
> > > del test
> > >
> > > Subsequently assigning a different object to `x` in one module does
> > > not affect the object assigned to `x` in the other module. So `x = 4`
> > > in `test2.py` does not affect the object assigned to `x` in `test.py`
> > > - that's still `3`.  If you want to do that, you need to import `test`
> > > and assign to `test.x`, for example:
> > >
> > > import test
> > > test.x = 4
> > > test.foo()
> > >
> > Yes, fundamental issue is that the statement
> >
> > from x import y
> >
> > makes a binding in this module to the object CURRECTLY bound to x.y to
> > the name y, but if x.y gets rebound, this module does not track the changes.
> >
> > You can mutate the object x.y and see the changes, but not rebind it.
> >
> > If you need to see rebindings, you can't use the "from x import y" form,
> > or at a minimum do it as:
> >
> >
> > import x
> >
> > from x import y
> >
> > then later to get rebindings to x.y do a
> >
> > y = x.y
> >
> > to rebind to the current x.y object.
> >
> > --
> > Richard Damon
> Yes, an extra "import x" will solve my problem too! Sometimes I am wondering why "from x import y" hides x? hum...can't figure out the reason:-)
>

"from x import y" doesn't hide x - it just grabs y. Python does what
you tell it to. :)

ChrisA

From gheskett at shentel.net  Mon Aug 29 04:51:13 2022
From: gheskett at shentel.net (gene heskett)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 04:51:13 -0400
Subject: What can I do about this?
In-Reply-To: <e81bd3c6-0002-748f-6ec8-26b7a44a08c6@shentel.net>
References: <38cb2d9f-9e89-39aa-341a-eee27296a523@shentel.net>
 <CAPTjJmoUrXyOqCHoUk8xvFMuohYtbu8AYc=Dq0AgMe2P9Hbk5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <e81bd3c6-0002-748f-6ec8-26b7a44a08c6@shentel.net>
Message-ID: <82b052e2-6842-a434-e727-7aeb6befdd35@shentel.net>

On 8/28/22 20:51, gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/28/22 19:36, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Aug 2022 at 08:41, gene heskett <gheskett at shentel.net> wrote:
>>> Greatings all;
>>>
>>> Persuant to my claim the py3.10 is busted, here is a sample. This is 
>>> me,
>>> trying to make
>>> pronterface, inside a venv: When the package manager version will only
>>> run the gui-less "pronsole"
>>> but nothing else from that all python kit runs as it should or at all.
>>> ? From the package-managers install in 
>>> /usr/share/doc/printrun-common/ I
>>> copied requirements.txt
>>> into the venv, and ran this command line:
>>>
>>> gene at rock64:~/venv$ pip3 install -r requirements.txt
>>> Defaulting to user installation because normal site-packages is not
>>> writeable
>> I don't think Python 3.10 is busted; it's more likely your venv is not
>> providing a pip3 command. Try "pip3 --version",
> gene at rock64:~/venv$ pip3 --version
> pip 22.0.2 from /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/pip (python 3.10)
>> ? "python3 --version",
> gene at rock64:~/venv$ python3 --version
> Python 3.10.4
>
>> and then "python3 -m pip install -r requirements.txt".
> gene at rock64:~/venv$ python3 -m pip install -r requirements.txt
> Defaulting to user installation because normal site-packages is not 
> writeable
> Ignoring pyobjc-framework-Cocoa: markers 'sys_platform == "darwin"' 
> don't match your environment
> Ignoring pyreadline: markers 'sys_platform == "win32"' don't match 
> your environment
> Requirement already satisfied: pyserial>=3.0 in 
> /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages (from -r requirements.txt (line 1)) (3.5)
> Collecting wxPython>=4.1
> ? Using cached wxPython-4.2.0.tar.gz (71.0 MB)
> ? Preparing metadata (setup.py) ... error
> ? error: subprocess-exited-with-error
>
> ? ? python setup.py egg_info did not run successfully.
> ? ? exit code: 1
> ? ??> [8 lines of output]
> ????? Traceback (most recent call last):
> ??????? File "<string>", line 2, in <module>
> ??????? File "<pip-setuptools-caller>", line 34, in <module>
> ??????? File 
> "/tmp/pip-install-g3phtj8f/wxpython_17898b1c7a6f49a690adac623d839514/setup.py", 
> line 27, in <module>
> ????????? from buildtools.config import Config, msg, opj, runcmd, 
> canGetSOName, getSOName
> ??????? File 
> "/tmp/pip-install-g3phtj8f/wxpython_17898b1c7a6f49a690adac623d839514/buildtools/config.py", 
> line 30, in <module>
> ????????? from attrdict import AttrDict
> ????? ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'attrdict'
> ????? [end of output]
>
> ? note: This error originates from a subprocess, and is likely not a 
> problem with pip.
> error: metadata-generation-failed
>
> ? Encountered error while generating package metadata.
> ??> See above for output.
>
> note: This is an issue with the package mentioned above, not pip.
> hint: See above for details.
>
>>
>> Why do you keep blaming Python as if it's fundamentally broken?
>>
>> ChrisA
> Given the above output, do you have a better target? It also fails to 
> build linuxcnc on
> bullseye for armhf, on an rpi4b with 2 gigs of dram.
> Works perfectly on buster, but I expect that has been fixed? since 
> linuxcnc
> looks like its good to go for inclusion in bookworm.
>
I;ve created a separate venv to install printrun, I does not work either.

So in that venv, I've done a git clone of printrun. Then after that, it 
appears there is
no such critter as a wxPython.whl for the arms, only x86_64's. So whats 
the diff if it
run ok on a pi, or claims it does. I don't have a spare rpi4b and they 
are equ to teeth
for a chicken ATM.

What, on the arms, substitutes for the missing "*.whl" file?

> Take care and stay well Chris.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>


From roel at roelschroeven.net  Mon Aug 29 05:19:42 2022
From: roel at roelschroeven.net (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 11:19:42 +0200
Subject: What can I do about this?
In-Reply-To: <96f5d626-5ebb-67a7-c7a7-1c6c5284fb1a@shentel.net>
References: <38cb2d9f-9e89-39aa-341a-eee27296a523@shentel.net>
 <20220828233201.k3xmcpdnpn63wxeb@hjp.at>
 <96f5d626-5ebb-67a7-c7a7-1c6c5284fb1a@shentel.net>
Message-ID: <babb2665-1571-1dcf-90e4-4bf69694be76@roelschroeven.net>

Op 29/08/2022 om 2:55 schreef gene heskett:
> On 8/28/22 19:39, Peter J. Holzer wrote:
>> On 2022-08-28 18:40:17 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>>> Persuant to my claim the py3.10 is busted, here is a sample. This is 
>>> me,
>>> trying to make
>>> pronterface, inside a venv: When the package manager version will 
>>> only run
>>> the gui-less "pronsole"
>>> but nothing else from that all python kit runs as it should or at all.
>>> ?From the package-managers install in /usr/share/doc/printrun-common/ I
>>> copied requirements.txt
>>> into the venv, and ran this command line:
>>>
>>> gene at rock64:~/venv$ pip3 install -r requirements.txt
>> You are almost certainly *not* in a venv here. First, your prompt
>> doesn't show the name of the venv,
> I've created that several times, as octoprint won''t run without it 
> either.
> I found a way to autostart it on reboots and octoprint seems happy 
> with it
I agree with Peter: it doesn't look as if you are invoking the pip3 in 
the venv. Just making the venv-directory the current directory doesn't 
activate it.

As a diagnostic, ask the OS which pip3 is actually used:

$ type -a pip3

Does that show the pip3 installed in the venv? Or the system-wide one? 
If it's not the pip3 in the venv, well, then that's the problem (or at 
least part of the problem). Solution: first check whether the venv 
really contains 'pip3' (as opposed to eg. just 'pip'): list the contents 
of the bin subdirectory of the venv. If not, use 'pip' or whatever 
instead. Then to make sure you use the one in the venv, either activate 
the venv or explicitly specify the path when invoking pip/pip3 (and 
likewise for python/python3).

So either (assuming you're using bash):

$ source {path_to_venv}/bin/pip3? # activate the venv
$ type -a pip3? # check whether now the correct pip3 is used
$ pip3 install -r requirements.txt? # finally invoke pip3

or:

$ {path_to_venv}/bin/pip3 install -r requirements.txt

Activating the venv is easier if you're going to use multiple commands 
in the venv. Note that activating the venv only has effect on the 
current shell; other shells are unaffected, and when you close the 
current shell the venv is not activated anymore.
Explicitly using the path is easier for one-off calls, or in things like 
crontab.

-- 
"There is no cause so noble that it will not attract fuggheads."
         -- Larry Niven


From gheskett at shentel.net  Mon Aug 29 11:12:17 2022
From: gheskett at shentel.net (gene heskett)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 11:12:17 -0400
Subject: What can I do about this?
In-Reply-To: <babb2665-1571-1dcf-90e4-4bf69694be76@roelschroeven.net>
References: <38cb2d9f-9e89-39aa-341a-eee27296a523@shentel.net>
 <20220828233201.k3xmcpdnpn63wxeb@hjp.at>
 <96f5d626-5ebb-67a7-c7a7-1c6c5284fb1a@shentel.net>
 <babb2665-1571-1dcf-90e4-4bf69694be76@roelschroeven.net>
Message-ID: <b4d9867f-8f05-443b-fbbf-17bf000954ba@shentel.net>

On 8/29/22 05:25, Roel Schroeven wrote:
> Op 29/08/2022 om 2:55 schreef gene heskett:
>> On 8/28/22 19:39, Peter J. Holzer wrote:
>>> On 2022-08-28 18:40:17 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>>>> Persuant to my claim the py3.10 is busted, here is a sample. This 
>>>> is me,
>>>> trying to make
>>>> pronterface, inside a venv: When the package manager version will 
>>>> only run
>>>> the gui-less "pronsole"
>>>> but nothing else from that all python kit runs as it should or at all.
>>>> ?From the package-managers install in 
>>>> /usr/share/doc/printrun-common/ I
>>>> copied requirements.txt
>>>> into the venv, and ran this command line:
>>>>
>>>> gene at rock64:~/venv$ pip3 install -r requirements.txt
>>> You are almost certainly *not* in a venv here. First, your prompt
>>> doesn't show the name of the venv,
>> I've created that several times, as octoprint won''t run without it 
>> either.
>> I found a way to autostart it on reboots and octoprint seems happy 
>> with it
> I agree with Peter: it doesn't look as if you are invoking the pip3 in 
> the venv. Just making the venv-directory the current directory doesn't 
> activate it.
>
> As a diagnostic, ask the OS which pip3 is actually used:
>
> $ type -a pip3
>
I get different answers in or out of the venv

venv) gene at rock64:~/printrun/Printrun$ type -a pip3
pip3 is /home/gene/printrun/Printrun/venv/bin/pip3
pip3 is /usr/bin/pip3
pip3 is /bin/pip3

or:

gene at rock64:~/src/wxPython-4.2.0$ type -a pip3
pip3 is /usr/bin/pip3
pip3 is /bin/pip3

but with all the build instructions I've now followed, I now have at 
least 3 different
venv subdirs scattered about.

one in /home/gene,
one in /home/gene/Octoprint,
and one in /home/gene/printrun

each with its own bin subdir, but not identical contents.

> Does that show the pip3 installed in the venv? Or the system-wide one? 
> If it's not the pip3 in the venv, well, then that's the problem (or at 
> least part of the problem). Solution: first check whether the venv 
> really contains 'pip3' (as opposed to eg. just 'pip'): list the 
> contents of the bin subdirectory of the venv. 
gene at rock64:~/venv/bin$ ls -l
total 36
-rw-r--r-- 1 gene gene 1982 Aug 21 13:12 activate
-rw-r--r-- 1 gene gene? 908 Aug 21 13:12 activate.csh
-rw-r--r-- 1 gene gene 2050 Aug 21 13:12 activate.fish
-rw-r--r-- 1 gene gene 9033 Aug 21 13:12 Activate.ps1
-rwxrwxr-x 1 gene gene? 232 Aug 21 13:12 pip
-rwxrwxr-x 1 gene gene? 232 Aug 21 13:12 pip3
-rwxrwxr-x 1 gene gene? 232 Aug 21 13:12 pip3.10
lrwxrwxrwx 1 gene gene??? 7 Aug 21 13:11 python -> python3
lrwxrwxrwx 1 gene gene?? 16 Aug 21 13:11 python3 -> /usr/bin/python3
lrwxrwxrwx 1 gene gene??? 7 Aug 21 13:11 python3.10 -> python3

> If not, use 'pip' or whatever instead. Then to make sure you use the 
> one in the venv, either activate the venv or explicitly specify the 
> path when invoking pip/pip3 (and likewise for python/python3).
>
> So either (assuming you're using bash):
>
> $ source {path_to_venv}/bin/pip3? # activate the venv
> $ type -a pip3? # check whether now the correct pip3 is used
> $ pip3 install -r requirements.txt? # finally invoke pip3
>
> or:
>
> $ {path_to_venv}/bin/pip3 install -r requirements.txt
>
> Activating the venv is easier if you're going to use multiple commands 
> in the venv. Note that activating the venv only has effect on the 
> current shell; other shells are unaffected, and when you close the 
> current shell the venv is not activated anymore.
> Explicitly using the path is easier for one-off calls, or in things 
> like crontab.
>
I've not had to deal with venv's before. Can more than one of these venv 
things
peacefully coexist?? Seems like they should. If there is sufficient nv 
memory,
But I am a 100% new bee here. The card itself is a 64GB.

I also have the git clone of wxPython-4.2.0, but nothing I can invoke 
there builds it.
But there are no specific linux instructions there, osx and winders 
only. The package
managers version of wxPython-4.0.7 apparently is not new enough.

It seems to me these utility's ought to be able to all live in one venv, 
or there should be
an env python path that is specific to each application. This would lead 
to a huge waste
of nv storage by duplicating a venv for each app, not sensible when the 
target of the venv
is a common arm64 system. All broadcom for gpio etc.

Presently, Octoprint works, and so does pronsole which has no gui, but 
Octoprint
is a one printer show, and I've a small farm of printers. Most of which have
failed the PETG test ,but that claimed to be PETG compatible, but 
quickly failed
when fed a roll of it. PETG is the same plastic forever bottles are made 
from, much
stronger than the PLA most folks use for artwork and what I'm doing 
needs its
physical strength. It also raises the printhead temp around 50C, which 
causes
teflon to slowly ablate with phosgene gas as output. Dangerous stuff, 
and high
maintenance too.

What I hope to be the 2nd workhorse? is an Ender 5 Plus, a huge core-xy 
thing that
now has a 300C capable head and an orbiter-v2 direct drive, heavy enough 
I've
had to restrict? its top speed from its default 500mm. The other printer 
is a
Prusa MK3S+ I've about $1500 USD in. It works nice _now_ but came with a
high leakage hot block some gorilla had over tightened and stripped the 
heat
break threads, but is slow if fed at cura's default 60mm speeds.

So what should I do next? That includes blowing it all away and starting 
over. I have
another rock64. and a kvm swithch on an Amazon truck, be here tomorrow. That
may be my best bet, a separate rock64 and octoprint for each printer. 
That at least
looks like it might work. Find a 10+ amp 5 volt supply to run a bunch of 
the korean
boards. If the kvm switch works.

Awaiting advice.? Thank you.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>


From jfong at ms4.hinet.net  Mon Aug 29 04:00:10 2022
From: jfong at ms4.hinet.net (Jach Feng)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 01:00:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to make a variable's late binding crosses the module boundary?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.358.1661752715.20444.python-list@python.org>
References: <06fa821a-2c33-49a2-81e3-6f76dd0a7317n@googlegroups.com>
 <a05247e6-79f8-aa69-473f-efc78a323822@Damon-Family.org>
 <tecvul$926$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.357.1661741205.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <CAPTjJmo0EG20SeTu-nR5unqvrauR-Ora+Yiwa_2EPM=0-2nLdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1e81aff1-d1e4-48e0-9b48-bc2fcebe38dfn@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.358.1661752715.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <db1bb483-b1df-462b-81a8-2f9233b0d0abn@googlegroups.com>

Chris Angelico ? 2022?8?29? ?????1:58:58 [UTC+8] ??????
> On Mon, 29 Aug 2022 at 15:54, Jach Feng <jf... at ms4.hinet.net> wrote: 
> > 
> > Richard Damon ? 2022?8?29? ?????10:47:08 [UTC+8] ?????? 
> > > On 8/27/22 7:42 AM, Mark Bourne wrote: 
> > > > Jach Feng wrote: 
> > > >> I have two files: test.py and test2.py 
> > > >> --test.py-- 
> > > >> x = 2 
> > > >> def foo(): 
> > > >> print(x) 
> > > >> foo() 
> > > >> 
> > > >> x = 3 
> > > >> foo() 
> > > >> 
> > > >> --test2.py-- 
> > > >> from test import * 
> > > >> x = 4 
> > > >> foo() 
> > > >> 
> > > >> ----- 
> > > >> Run test.py under Winows8.1, I get the expected result: 
> > > >> e:\MyDocument>py test.py 
> > > >> 2 
> > > >> 3 
> > > >> 
> > > >> But when run test2.py, the result is not my expected 2,3,4:-( 
> > > >> e:\MyDocument>py test2.py 
> > > >> 2 
> > > >> 3 
> > > >> 3 
> > > >> 
> > > >> What to do? 
> > > > 
> > > > `from test import *` does not link the names in `test2` to those in 
> > > > `test`. It just binds objects bound to names in `test` to the same 
> > > > names in `test2`. A bit like doing: 
> > > > 
> > > > import test 
> > > > x = test.x 
> > > > foo = test.foo 
> > > > del test 
> > > > 
> > > > Subsequently assigning a different object to `x` in one module does 
> > > > not affect the object assigned to `x` in the other module. So `x = 4` 
> > > > in `test2.py` does not affect the object assigned to `x` in `test.py` 
> > > > - that's still `3`. If you want to do that, you need to import `test` 
> > > > and assign to `test.x`, for example: 
> > > > 
> > > > import test 
> > > > test.x = 4 
> > > > test.foo() 
> > > > 
> > > Yes, fundamental issue is that the statement 
> > > 
> > > from x import y 
> > > 
> > > makes a binding in this module to the object CURRECTLY bound to x.y to 
> > > the name y, but if x.y gets rebound, this module does not track the changes. 
> > > 
> > > You can mutate the object x.y and see the changes, but not rebind it. 
> > > 
> > > If you need to see rebindings, you can't use the "from x import y" form, 
> > > or at a minimum do it as: 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > import x 
> > > 
> > > from x import y 
> > > 
> > > then later to get rebindings to x.y do a 
> > > 
> > > y = x.y 
> > > 
> > > to rebind to the current x.y object. 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Richard Damon 
> > Yes, an extra "import x" will solve my problem too! Sometimes I am wondering why "from x import y" hides x? hum...can't figure out the reason:-) 
> >
> "from x import y" doesn't hide x - it just grabs y. Python does what 
> you tell it to. :) 
> 
> ChrisA
But I had heard people say that "from x import y" did import the whole x module into memory, just as "import x" did, not "grabs y" only. Is this correct?

--Jach

From nntp.mbourne at spamgourmet.com  Mon Aug 29 06:40:33 2022
From: nntp.mbourne at spamgourmet.com (Mark Bourne)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 11:40:33 +0100
Subject: How to make a variable's late binding crosses the module boundary?
References: <06fa821a-2c33-49a2-81e3-6f76dd0a7317n@googlegroups.com>
 <a05247e6-79f8-aa69-473f-efc78a323822@Damon-Family.org>
 <tecvul$926$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.357.1661741205.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <CAPTjJmo0EG20SeTu-nR5unqvrauR-Ora+Yiwa_2EPM=0-2nLdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1e81aff1-d1e4-48e0-9b48-bc2fcebe38dfn@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.358.1661752715.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <db1bb483-b1df-462b-81a8-2f9233b0d0abn@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <tei531$b6h$1@gioia.aioe.org>

Jach Feng wrote:
> Chris Angelico ? 2022?8?29? ?????1:58:58 [UTC+8] ??????
>> On Mon, 29 Aug 2022 at 15:54, Jach Feng <jf... at ms4.hinet.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Richard Damon ? 2022?8?29? ?????10:47:08 [UTC+8] ??????
>>>> On 8/27/22 7:42 AM, Mark Bourne wrote:
>>>>> Jach Feng wrote:
>>>>>> I have two files: test.py and test2.py
>>>>>> --test.py--
>>>>>> x = 2
>>>>>> def foo():
>>>>>> print(x)
>>>>>> foo()
>>>>>>
>>>>>> x = 3
>>>>>> foo()
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --test2.py--
>>>>>> from test import *
>>>>>> x = 4
>>>>>> foo()
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> Run test.py under Winows8.1, I get the expected result:
>>>>>> e:\MyDocument>py test.py
>>>>>> 2
>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But when run test2.py, the result is not my expected 2,3,4:-(
>>>>>> e:\MyDocument>py test2.py
>>>>>> 2
>>>>>> 3
>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What to do?
>>>>>
>>>>> `from test import *` does not link the names in `test2` to those in
>>>>> `test`. It just binds objects bound to names in `test` to the same
>>>>> names in `test2`. A bit like doing:
>>>>>
>>>>> import test
>>>>> x = test.x
>>>>> foo = test.foo
>>>>> del test
>>>>>
>>>>> Subsequently assigning a different object to `x` in one module does
>>>>> not affect the object assigned to `x` in the other module. So `x = 4`
>>>>> in `test2.py` does not affect the object assigned to `x` in `test.py`
>>>>> - that's still `3`. If you want to do that, you need to import `test`
>>>>> and assign to `test.x`, for example:
>>>>>
>>>>> import test
>>>>> test.x = 4
>>>>> test.foo()
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, fundamental issue is that the statement
>>>>
>>>> from x import y
>>>>
>>>> makes a binding in this module to the object CURRECTLY bound to x.y to
>>>> the name y, but if x.y gets rebound, this module does not track the changes.
>>>>
>>>> You can mutate the object x.y and see the changes, but not rebind it.
>>>>
>>>> If you need to see rebindings, you can't use the "from x import y" form,
>>>> or at a minimum do it as:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> import x
>>>>
>>>> from x import y
>>>>
>>>> then later to get rebindings to x.y do a
>>>>
>>>> y = x.y
>>>>
>>>> to rebind to the current x.y object.
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Richard Damon
>>> Yes, an extra "import x" will solve my problem too! Sometimes I am wondering why "from x import y" hides x? hum...can't figure out the reason:-)
>>>
>> "from x import y" doesn't hide x - it just grabs y. Python does what
>> you tell it to. :)
>>
>> ChrisA
> But I had heard people say that "from x import y" did import the whole x module into memory, just as "import x" did, not "grabs y" only. Is this correct?

`from x import y` does import the whole module x into memory, and adds 
it to `sys.modules`.  But it only binds the name `y` in the namespace of 
module doing the import (and it binds it to the value of `x.y` at the 
time the import is done - it doesn't magically keep them in sync if one 
or the other is later reassigned).

The point about the whole module being imported is that you don't save 
any memory by using `from x import y` to avoid importing some very large 
object `z` from `x`.  Those other large objects might be needed by 
functions which have been imported (e.g. your `foo` function still needs 
`x` even if you haven't imported `x` - so it still needs to be loaded 
into memory) or might be imported and used by other modules importing 
`x`, so they still have to be loaded when any part of `x` is imported - 
they just don't have to be bound to names in the importing module's 
namespace.

As Richard mentioned, if `x.y` is a mutable object (such as a list) you 
can still mutate that object (e.g. add/remove items) and those changes 
will be seen in both modules.  That's because both are still bound to 
the same object and you're mutating that existing object.  If you assign 
a new list to either, that won't be seen by the other.

-- 
Mark.

From nntp.mbourne at spamgourmet.com  Mon Aug 29 07:02:01 2022
From: nntp.mbourne at spamgourmet.com (Mark Bourne)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 12:02:01 +0100
Subject: What can I do about this?
References: <38cb2d9f-9e89-39aa-341a-eee27296a523@shentel.net>
 <20220828233201.k3xmcpdnpn63wxeb@hjp.at>
 <96f5d626-5ebb-67a7-c7a7-1c6c5284fb1a@shentel.net>
 <babb2665-1571-1dcf-90e4-4bf69694be76@roelschroeven.net>
 <mailman.360.1661764787.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tei6b9$trq$1@gioia.aioe.org>

Roel Schroeven wrote:
> Op 29/08/2022 om 2:55 schreef gene heskett:
>> On 8/28/22 19:39, Peter J. Holzer wrote:
>>> On 2022-08-28 18:40:17 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>>>> Persuant to my claim the py3.10 is busted, here is a sample. This is 
>>>> me,
>>>> trying to make
>>>> pronterface, inside a venv: When the package manager version will 
>>>> only run
>>>> the gui-less "pronsole"
>>>> but nothing else from that all python kit runs as it should or at all.
>>>> ?From the package-managers install in /usr/share/doc/printrun-common/ I
>>>> copied requirements.txt
>>>> into the venv, and ran this command line:
>>>>
>>>> gene at rock64:~/venv$ pip3 install -r requirements.txt
>>> You are almost certainly *not* in a venv here. First, your prompt
>>> doesn't show the name of the venv,
>> I've created that several times, as octoprint won''t run without it 
>> either.
>> I found a way to autostart it on reboots and octoprint seems happy 
>> with it
> I agree with Peter: it doesn't look as if you are invoking the pip3 in 
> the venv. Just making the venv-directory the current directory doesn't 
> activate it.
> 
> As a diagnostic, ask the OS which pip3 is actually used:
> 
> $ type -a pip3
> 
> Does that show the pip3 installed in the venv? Or the system-wide one? 
> If it's not the pip3 in the venv, well, then that's the problem (or at 
> least part of the problem). Solution: first check whether the venv 
> really contains 'pip3' (as opposed to eg. just 'pip'): list the contents 
> of the bin subdirectory of the venv. If not, use 'pip' or whatever 
> instead. Then to make sure you use the one in the venv, either activate 
> the venv or explicitly specify the path when invoking pip/pip3 (and 
> likewise for python/python3).
> 
> So either (assuming you're using bash):
> 
> $ source {path_to_venv}/bin/pip3? # activate the venv

I think this first line should probably be:

$ source {path_to_venv}/bin/activate  # activate the venv

i.e. with `activate` rather than `pip3`?

> $ type -a pip3? # check whether now the correct pip3 is used
> $ pip3 install -r requirements.txt? # finally invoke pip3
> 
> or:
> 
> $ {path_to_venv}/bin/pip3 install -r requirements.txt
> 
> Activating the venv is easier if you're going to use multiple commands 
> in the venv. Note that activating the venv only has effect on the 
> current shell; other shells are unaffected, and when you close the 
> current shell the venv is not activated anymore.
> Explicitly using the path is easier for one-off calls, or in things like 
> crontab.
> 

From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Mon Aug 29 11:46:09 2022
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 11:46:09 -0400
Subject: What can I do about this?
References: <38cb2d9f-9e89-39aa-341a-eee27296a523@shentel.net>
 <CAPTjJmoUrXyOqCHoUk8xvFMuohYtbu8AYc=Dq0AgMe2P9Hbk5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <e81bd3c6-0002-748f-6ec8-26b7a44a08c6@shentel.net>
 <82b052e2-6842-a434-e727-7aeb6befdd35@shentel.net>
 <mailman.359.1661763079.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <iqmpgh1b8hn7nn3foodfdrm09e89cjm9d6@4ax.com>

On Mon, 29 Aug 2022 04:51:13 -0400, gene heskett <gheskett at shentel.net>
declaimed the following:

>What, on the arms, substitutes for the missing "*.whl" file?
>
	In Debian -- apt-get
https://packages.debian.org/stable/source/wxpython4.0
of course, that will install things system-wide, not in a virtual
environment, and compatible with the system Python. For Bullseye, that is
still Python 3.9!

pi at rpi3bplus-1:~$ uname -a
Linux rpi3bplus-1 5.15.32-v7+ #1538 SMP Thu Mar 31 19:38:48 BST 2022 armv7l
GNU/Linux
pi at rpi3bplus-1:~$ sudo apt search wxpython
Sorting... Done
Full Text Search... Done
gnumed-client/stable 1.8.5+dfsg-2 all
  medical practice management - Client

psychopy/stable 2020.2.10+dfsg-2 all
  environment for creating psychology stimuli in Python

pyscanfcs/stable 0.3.6+ds-2+b1 armhf
  scientific tool for perpendicular line scanning FCS

python3-genx/stable 3.0.2-1 armhf
  differential evolution algorithm for fitting

python3-opengl/stable 3.1.5+dfsg-1 all
  Python bindings to OpenGL (Python 3)

python3-pyface/stable 6.1.2-2 all
  traits-capable windowing framework

python3-squaremap/stable 1:1.0.5-2 all
  wxPython control to display hierarchic data as nested squares

python3-wxgtk-media4.0/stable 4.0.7+dfsg-10 armhf
  Python 3 interface to the wxWidgets Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit
(wx.media)

python3-wxgtk-webview4.0/stable 4.0.7+dfsg-10 armhf
  Python 3 interface to the wxWidgets Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit
(wx.html2)

python3-wxgtk4.0/stable 4.0.7+dfsg-10 armhf
  Python 3 interface to the wxWidgets Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit

soundgrain/stable 6.0.1-2 all
  Graphical interface to control granular sound synthesis modules

wxglade/stable 1.0.1-1 all
  GUI designer written in Python with wxPython

wxpython-tools/stable 4.0.7+dfsg-10 all
  Tools from the wxPython distribution

pi at rpi3bplus-1:~$

pi at rpi3bplus-1:~$ sudo apt install python3-wxgtk4.0
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
The following additional packages will be installed:
  libwxbase3.0-0v5 libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-0v5
Suggested packages:
  wx3.0-doc
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libwxbase3.0-0v5 libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-0v5 python3-wxgtk4.0
0 upgraded, 3 newly installed, 0 to remove and 161 not upgraded.
Need to get 10.5 MB of archives.
After this operation, 51.6 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
Get:1 http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian bullseye/main armhf
libwxbase3.0-0v5 armhf 3.0.5.1+dfsg-2 [918 kB]
Get:2 http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian bullseye/main armhf
libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-0v5 armhf 3.0.5.1+dfsg-2 [3650 kB]
Get:3 http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian bullseye/main armhf
python3-wxgtk4.0 armhf 4.0.7+dfsg-10 [5970 kB]
Fetched 10.5 MB in 8s (1346 kB/s)
Selecting previously unselected package libwxbase3.0-0v5:armhf.
(Reading database ... 175515 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to unpack .../libwxbase3.0-0v5_3.0.5.1+dfsg-2_armhf.deb ...
Unpacking libwxbase3.0-0v5:armhf (3.0.5.1+dfsg-2) ...
Selecting previously unselected package libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-0v5:armhf.
Preparing to unpack .../libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-0v5_3.0.5.1+dfsg-2_armhf.deb ...
Unpacking libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-0v5:armhf (3.0.5.1+dfsg-2) ...
Selecting previously unselected package python3-wxgtk4.0.
Preparing to unpack .../python3-wxgtk4.0_4.0.7+dfsg-10_armhf.deb ...
Unpacking python3-wxgtk4.0 (4.0.7+dfsg-10) ...
Setting up libwxbase3.0-0v5:armhf (3.0.5.1+dfsg-2) ...
Setting up libwxgtk3.0-gtk3-0v5:armhf (3.0.5.1+dfsg-2) ...
Setting up python3-wxgtk4.0 (4.0.7+dfsg-10) ...
Processing triggers for libc-bin (2.31-13+rpt2+rpi1+deb11u2) ...
pi at rpi3bplus-1:~$






	Or... You wait until somebody builds a Python3.10 ARMHF compatible
wheel.


-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
	wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Aug 29 12:45:39 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 02:45:39 +1000
Subject: How to make a variable's late binding crosses the module boundary?
In-Reply-To: <db1bb483-b1df-462b-81a8-2f9233b0d0abn@googlegroups.com>
References: <06fa821a-2c33-49a2-81e3-6f76dd0a7317n@googlegroups.com>
 <a05247e6-79f8-aa69-473f-efc78a323822@Damon-Family.org>
 <tecvul$926$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.357.1661741205.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <CAPTjJmo0EG20SeTu-nR5unqvrauR-Ora+Yiwa_2EPM=0-2nLdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1e81aff1-d1e4-48e0-9b48-bc2fcebe38dfn@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.358.1661752715.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <db1bb483-b1df-462b-81a8-2f9233b0d0abn@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrNXxKG8XaA7RWOoxTyjdA7njGjdRudOv4_rD47Qr8MKA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 at 02:38, Jach Feng <jfong at ms4.hinet.net> wrote:
>
> Chris Angelico ? 2022?8?29? ?????1:58:58 [UTC+8] ??????
> > On Mon, 29 Aug 2022 at 15:54, Jach Feng <jf... at ms4.hinet.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Richard Damon ? 2022?8?29? ?????10:47:08 [UTC+8] ??????
> > > > On 8/27/22 7:42 AM, Mark Bourne wrote:
> > > > > Jach Feng wrote:
> > > > >> I have two files: test.py and test2.py
> > > > >> --test.py--
> > > > >> x = 2
> > > > >> def foo():
> > > > >> print(x)
> > > > >> foo()
> > > > >>
> > > > >> x = 3
> > > > >> foo()
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --test2.py--
> > > > >> from test import *
> > > > >> x = 4
> > > > >> foo()
> > > > >>
> > > > >> -----
> > > > >> Run test.py under Winows8.1, I get the expected result:
> > > > >> e:\MyDocument>py test.py
> > > > >> 2
> > > > >> 3
> > > > >>
> > > > >> But when run test2.py, the result is not my expected 2,3,4:-(
> > > > >> e:\MyDocument>py test2.py
> > > > >> 2
> > > > >> 3
> > > > >> 3
> > > > >>
> > > > >> What to do?
> > > > >
> > > > > `from test import *` does not link the names in `test2` to those in
> > > > > `test`. It just binds objects bound to names in `test` to the same
> > > > > names in `test2`. A bit like doing:
> > > > >
> > > > > import test
> > > > > x = test.x
> > > > > foo = test.foo
> > > > > del test
> > > > >
> > > > > Subsequently assigning a different object to `x` in one module does
> > > > > not affect the object assigned to `x` in the other module. So `x = 4`
> > > > > in `test2.py` does not affect the object assigned to `x` in `test.py`
> > > > > - that's still `3`. If you want to do that, you need to import `test`
> > > > > and assign to `test.x`, for example:
> > > > >
> > > > > import test
> > > > > test.x = 4
> > > > > test.foo()
> > > > >
> > > > Yes, fundamental issue is that the statement
> > > >
> > > > from x import y
> > > >
> > > > makes a binding in this module to the object CURRECTLY bound to x.y to
> > > > the name y, but if x.y gets rebound, this module does not track the changes.
> > > >
> > > > You can mutate the object x.y and see the changes, but not rebind it.
> > > >
> > > > If you need to see rebindings, you can't use the "from x import y" form,
> > > > or at a minimum do it as:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > import x
> > > >
> > > > from x import y
> > > >
> > > > then later to get rebindings to x.y do a
> > > >
> > > > y = x.y
> > > >
> > > > to rebind to the current x.y object.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Richard Damon
> > > Yes, an extra "import x" will solve my problem too! Sometimes I am wondering why "from x import y" hides x? hum...can't figure out the reason:-)
> > >
> > "from x import y" doesn't hide x - it just grabs y. Python does what
> > you tell it to. :)
> >
> > ChrisA
> But I had heard people say that "from x import y" did import the whole x module into memory, just as "import x" did, not "grabs y" only. Is this correct?
>

In order to do any sort of import, Python has to run the whole module.
But after that, something gets set in your module so that you can get
access to it.

import x
# is kinda like
go_and_run("x")
x = fetch_module("x")

from x import y
# is kinda like
go_and_run("x")
y = fetch_module("x").y

Either way, the whole module gets run, but then there's an assignment
into your module that depends on what you're importing.

ChrisA

From roel at roelschroeven.net  Mon Aug 29 12:50:19 2022
From: roel at roelschroeven.net (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 18:50:19 +0200
Subject: What can I do about this?
In-Reply-To: <tei6b9$trq$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <38cb2d9f-9e89-39aa-341a-eee27296a523@shentel.net>
 <20220828233201.k3xmcpdnpn63wxeb@hjp.at>
 <96f5d626-5ebb-67a7-c7a7-1c6c5284fb1a@shentel.net>
 <babb2665-1571-1dcf-90e4-4bf69694be76@roelschroeven.net>
 <mailman.360.1661764787.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tei6b9$trq$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <209019f7-4118-081d-a55c-64d5a5b89da9@roelschroeven.net>

Mark Bourne schreef op 29/08/2022 om 13:02:
> Roel Schroeven wrote:
> > $ source {path_to_venv}/bin/pip3? # activate the venv
>
> I think this first line should probably be:
>
> $ source {path_to_venv}/bin/activate  # activate the venv
>
> i.e. with `activate` rather than `pip3`?

Oops, yes, of course. Thank you for the correction!

-- 

"In the old days, writers used to sit in front of a typewriter and stare out of
the window. Nowadays, because of the marvels of convergent technology, the thing
you type on and the window you stare out of are now the same thing.?
         -- Douglas Adams


From gheskett at shentel.net  Mon Aug 29 13:43:18 2022
From: gheskett at shentel.net (gene heskett)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 13:43:18 -0400
Subject: What can I do about this?
In-Reply-To: <tei6b9$trq$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <38cb2d9f-9e89-39aa-341a-eee27296a523@shentel.net>
 <20220828233201.k3xmcpdnpn63wxeb@hjp.at>
 <96f5d626-5ebb-67a7-c7a7-1c6c5284fb1a@shentel.net>
 <babb2665-1571-1dcf-90e4-4bf69694be76@roelschroeven.net>
 <mailman.360.1661764787.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tei6b9$trq$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <f8650183-4891-9200-74d9-8ce93e1f4fa6@shentel.net>

On 8/29/22 12:50, Mark Bourne wrote:
> Roel Schroeven wrote:
>> Op 29/08/2022 om 2:55 schreef gene heskett:
>>> On 8/28/22 19:39, Peter J. Holzer wrote:
>>>> On 2022-08-28 18:40:17 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>>>>> Persuant to my claim the py3.10 is busted, here is a sample. This 
>>>>> is me,
>>>>> trying to make
>>>>> pronterface, inside a venv: When the package manager version will 
>>>>> only run
>>>>> the gui-less "pronsole"
>>>>> but nothing else from that all python kit runs as it should or at 
>>>>> all.
>>>>> ?From the package-managers install in 
>>>>> /usr/share/doc/printrun-common/ I
>>>>> copied requirements.txt
>>>>> into the venv, and ran this command line:
>>>>>
>>>>> gene at rock64:~/venv$ pip3 install -r requirements.txt
>>>> You are almost certainly *not* in a venv here. First, your prompt
>>>> doesn't show the name of the venv,
>>> I've created that several times, as octoprint won''t run without it 
>>> either.
>>> I found a way to autostart it on reboots and octoprint seems happy 
>>> with it
>> I agree with Peter: it doesn't look as if you are invoking the pip3 
>> in the venv. Just making the venv-directory the current directory 
>> doesn't activate it.
>>
>> As a diagnostic, ask the OS which pip3 is actually used:
>>
>> $ type -a pip3
>>
>> Does that show the pip3 installed in the venv? Or the system-wide 
>> one? If it's not the pip3 in the venv, well, then that's the problem 
>> (or at least part of the problem). Solution: first check whether the 
>> venv really contains 'pip3' (as opposed to eg. just 'pip'): list the 
>> contents of the bin subdirectory of the venv. If not, use 'pip' or 
>> whatever instead. Then to make sure you use the one in the venv, 
>> either activate the venv or explicitly specify the path when invoking 
>> pip/pip3 (and likewise for python/python3).
>>
>> So either (assuming you're using bash):
>>
>> $ source {path_to_venv}/bin/pip3? # activate the venv
>
> I think this first line should probably be:
>
> $ source {path_to_venv}/bin/activate? # activate the venv
>
> i.e. with `activate` rather than `pip3`?
>
>> $ type -a pip3? # check whether now the correct pip3 is used
>> $ pip3 install -r requirements.txt? # finally invoke pip3
>>
>> or:
>>
>> $ {path_to_venv}/bin/pip3 install -r requirements.txt
That got me to showstopper #2: (lengthy warniing)

(venv) gene at rock64:~/printrun/Printrun$ ./venv/bin/pip3 install -r 
requirements.txt
Ignoring pyobjc-framework-Cocoa: markers 'sys_platform == "darwin"' 
don't match your environment
Ignoring pyreadline: markers 'sys_platform == "win32"' don't match your 
environment
Requirement already satisfied: pyserial>=3.0 in 
./venv/lib/python3.10/site-packages (from -r requirements.txt (line 1)) 
(3.5)
Collecting wxPython==4.1.0
 ? Using cached wxPython-4.1.0.tar.gz (65.8 MB)
 ? Preparing metadata (setup.py) ... done
Collecting numpy>=1.8.2
 ? Using cached 
numpy-1.23.2-cp310-cp310-manylinux_2_17_aarch64.manylinux2014_aarch64.whl 
(13.9 MB)
Requirement already satisfied: pyglet>=1.1 in 
./venv/lib/python3.10/site-packages (from -r requirements.txt (line 4)) 
(1.5.26)
Collecting cffi
 ? Using cached 
cffi-1.15.1-cp310-cp310-manylinux_2_17_aarch64.manylinux2014_aarch64.whl 
(449 kB)
Collecting cairocffi
 ? Using cached cairocffi-1.3.0.tar.gz (88 kB)
 ? Preparing metadata (setup.py) ... done
Collecting cairosvg>=1.0.9
 ? Using cached CairoSVG-2.5.2-py3-none-any.whl (45 kB)
Collecting psutil>=2.1
 ? Using cached psutil-5.9.1-cp310-cp310-linux_aarch64.whl
Collecting lxml>=2.9.1
 ? Using cached 
lxml-4.9.1-cp310-cp310-manylinux_2_17_aarch64.manylinux2014_aarch64.manylinux_2_24_aarch64.whl 
(6.6 MB)
Collecting appdirs>=1.4.0
 ? Using cached appdirs-1.4.4-py2.py3-none-any.whl (9.6 kB)
Collecting dbus-python>=1.2.0
 ? Using cached dbus-python-1.2.18.tar.gz (578 kB)
 ? Preparing metadata (setup.py) ... done
Collecting pillow
 ? Using cached Pillow-9.2.0-cp310-cp310-manylinux_2_28_aarch64.whl (3.1 MB)
Collecting six
 ? Using cached six-1.16.0-py2.py3-none-any.whl (11 kB)
Collecting pycparser
 ? Using cached pycparser-2.21-py2.py3-none-any.whl (118 kB)
Collecting cssselect2
 ? Using cached cssselect2-0.6.0-py3-none-any.whl (15 kB)
Collecting tinycss2
 ? Using cached tinycss2-1.1.1-py3-none-any.whl (21 kB)
Collecting defusedxml
 ? Using cached defusedxml-0.7.1-py2.py3-none-any.whl (25 kB)
Requirement already satisfied: webencodings in 
./venv/lib/python3.10/site-packages (from 
cssselect2->cairosvg>=1.0.9->-r requirements.txt (line 7)) (0.5.1)
Using legacy 'setup.py install' for wxPython, since package 'wheel' is 
not installed.
Using legacy 'setup.py install' for cairocffi, since package 'wheel' is 
not installed.
Using legacy 'setup.py install' for dbus-python, since package 'wheel' 
is not installed.
Installing collected packages: dbus-python, appdirs, tinycss2, six, 
pycparser, psutil, pillow, numpy, lxml, defusedxml, wxPython, 
cssselect2, cffi, cairocffi, cairosvg
 ? Running setup.py install for dbus-python ... error
 ? error: subprocess-exited-with-error

 ? ? Running setup.py install for dbus-python did not run successfully.
 ? ? exit code: 1
 ? ??> [166 lines of output]
 ????? running install
/home/gene/printrun/Printrun/venv/lib/python3.10/site-packages/setuptools/command/install.py:34: 
SetuptoolsDeprecationWarning: setup.py install is deprecated. Use build 
and pip and other standards-based tools.
 ??????? warnings.warn(
 ????? running build
 ????? creating 
/tmp/pip-install-2zqkrisr/dbus-python_6642a4f761e742d49b75c39a953ceb6b/build
 ????? creating 
/tmp/pip-install-2zqkrisr/dbus-python_6642a4f761e742d49b75c39a953ceb6b/build/temp.linux-aarch64-3.10
 ????? checking whether make supports nested variables... yes
 ????? checking whether to enable maintainer-specific portions of 
Makefiles... no
 ????? checking for gcc... gcc
 ????? checking whether the C compiler works... yes
 ????? checking for C compiler default output file name... a.out
 ????? checking for suffix of executables...
 ????? checking whether we are cross compiling... no
 ????? checking for suffix of object files... o
 ????? checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes
 ????? checking whether gcc accepts -g... yes
 ????? checking for gcc option to accept ISO C89... none needed
 ????? checking whether gcc understands -c and -o together... yes
 ????? checking how to run the C preprocessor... gcc -E
 ????? checking for grep that handles long lines and -e... /usr/bin/grep
 ????? checking for egrep... /usr/bin/grep -E
 ????? checking for ANSI C header files... yes
 ????? checking for sys/types.h... yes
 ????? checking for sys/stat.h... yes
 ????? checking for stdlib.h... yes
 ????? checking for string.h... yes
 ????? checking for memory.h... yes
 ????? checking for strings.h... yes
 ????? checking for inttypes.h... yes
 ????? checking for stdint.h... yes
 ????? checking for unistd.h... yes
 ????? checking minix/config.h usability... no
 ????? checking minix/config.h presence... no
 ????? checking for minix/config.h... no
 ????? checking whether it is safe to define __EXTENSIONS__... yes
 ????? checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c
 ????? checking whether build environment is sane... yes
 ????? checking for a thread-safe mkdir -p... /usr/bin/mkdir -p
 ????? checking for gawk... no
 ????? checking for mawk... mawk
 ????? checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes
 ????? checking whether make supports the include directive... yes (GNU 
style)
 ????? checking whether UID '1000' is supported by ustar format... yes
 ????? checking whether GID '1000' is supported by ustar format... yes
 ????? checking how to create a ustar tar archive... gnutar
 ????? checking dependency style of gcc... gcc3
 ????? checking build system type... aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu
 ????? checking host system type... aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu
 ????? checking for native Windows host... no
 ????? checking how to print strings... printf
 ????? checking for a sed that does not truncate output... /usr/bin/sed
 ????? checking for fgrep... /usr/bin/grep -F
 ????? checking for ld used by gcc... /usr/bin/ld
 ????? checking if the linker (/usr/bin/ld) is GNU ld... yes
 ????? checking for BSD- or MS-compatible name lister (nm)... /usr/bin/nm -B
 ????? checking the name lister (/usr/bin/nm -B) interface... BSD nm
 ????? checking whether ln -s works... yes
 ????? checking the maximum length of command line arguments... 1572864
 ????? checking how to convert aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu file names to 
aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu format... func_convert_file_noop
 ????? checking how to convert aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu file names to 
toolchain format... func_convert_file_noop
 ????? checking for /usr/bin/ld option to reload object files... -r
 ????? checking for objdump... objdump
 ????? checking how to recognize dependent libraries... pass_all
 ????? checking for dlltool... no
 ????? checking how to associate runtime and link libraries... printf %s\n
 ????? checking for ar... ar
 ????? checking for archiver @FILE support... @
 ????? checking for strip... strip
 ????? checking for ranlib... ranlib
 ????? checking command to parse /usr/bin/nm -B output from gcc object... ok
 ????? checking for sysroot... no
 ????? checking for a working dd... /usr/bin/dd
 ????? checking how to truncate binary pipes... /usr/bin/dd bs=4096 count=1
 ????? checking for mt... mt
 ????? checking if mt is a manifest tool... no
 ????? checking for dlfcn.h... yes
 ????? checking for objdir... .libs
 ????? checking if gcc supports -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions... no
 ????? checking for gcc option to produce PIC... -fPIC -DPIC
 ????? checking if gcc PIC flag -fPIC -DPIC works... yes
 ????? checking if gcc static flag -static works... yes
 ????? checking if gcc supports -c -o file.o... yes
 ????? checking if gcc supports -c -o file.o... (cached) yes
 ????? checking whether the gcc linker (/usr/bin/ld) supports shared 
libraries... yes
 ????? checking whether -lc should be explicitly linked in... no
 ????? checking dynamic linker characteristics... GNU/Linux ld.so
 ????? checking how to hardcode library paths into programs... immediate
 ????? checking whether stripping libraries is possible... yes
 ????? checking if libtool supports shared libraries... yes
 ????? checking whether to build shared libraries... yes
 ????? checking whether to build static libraries... no
 ????? checking for inline... inline
 ????? checking for gawk... (cached) mawk
 ????? checking for python... /home/gene/printrun/Printrun/venv/bin/python3
 ????? checking for a version of Python >= '2.1.0'... yes
 ????? checking for a version of Python >= '2.7'... yes
 ????? checking for the distutils Python package... yes
 ????? checking for Python include path... <string>:1: 
DeprecationWarning: The distutils package is deprecated and slated for 
removal in Python 3.12. Use setuptools or check PEP 632 for potential 
alternatives
 ????? <string>:1: DeprecationWarning: The distutils.sysconfig module is 
deprecated, use sysconfig instead
 ????? <string>:1: DeprecationWarning: The distutils package is 
deprecated and slated for removal in Python 3.12. Use setuptools or 
check PEP 632 for potential alternatives
 ????? <string>:1: DeprecationWarning: The distutils.sysconfig module is 
deprecated, use sysconfig instead
 ????? -I/usr/include/python3.10
 ????? checking for Python library path... <stdin>:4: 
DeprecationWarning: The distutils package is deprecated and slated for 
removal in Python 3.12. Use setuptools or check PEP 632 for potential 
alternatives
 ????? <stdin>:4: DeprecationWarning: The distutils.sysconfig module is 
deprecated, use sysconfig instead
 ????? <stdin>:3: DeprecationWarning: The distutils package is 
deprecated and slated for removal in Python 3.12. Use setuptools or 
check PEP 632 for potential alternatives
 ????? <stdin>:3: DeprecationWarning: The distutils.sysconfig module is 
deprecated, use sysconfig instead
 ????? <stdin>:2: DeprecationWarning: The distutils package is 
deprecated and slated for removal in Python 3.12. Use setuptools or 
check PEP 632 for potential alternatives
 ????? <stdin>:2: DeprecationWarning: The distutils.sysconfig module is 
deprecated, use sysconfig instead
 ????? -L/usr/lib/aarch64-linux-gnu -lpython3.10
 ????? checking for Python site-packages path... <string>:1: 
DeprecationWarning: The distutils package is deprecated and slated for 
removal in Python 3.12. Use setuptools or check PEP 632 for potential 
alternatives
 ????? <string>:1: DeprecationWarning: The distutils.sysconfig module is 
deprecated, use sysconfig instead
 ????? /home/gene/printrun/Printrun/venv/lib/python3.10/site-packages
 ????? checking python extra libraries... <string>:1: 
DeprecationWarning: The distutils package is deprecated and slated for 
removal in Python 3.12. Use setuptools or check PEP 632 for potential 
alternatives
 ????? <string>:1: DeprecationWarning: The distutils.sysconfig module is 
deprecated, use sysconfig instead
 ????? -lcrypt -ldl? -lm -lm
 ????? checking python extra linking flags... <string>:1: 
DeprecationWarning: The distutils package is deprecated and slated for 
removal in Python 3.12. Use setuptools or check PEP 632 for potential 
alternatives
 ????? <string>:1: DeprecationWarning: The distutils.sysconfig module is 
deprecated, use sysconfig instead
 ????? -Xlinker -export-dynamic -Wl,-O1 -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions
 ????? checking consistency of all components of python development 
environment... yes
 ????? checking for python version... 3.10
 ????? checking for python platform... linux
 ????? checking for python script directory... 
${prefix}/lib/python3.10/site-packages
 ????? checking for python extension module directory... 
${exec_prefix}/lib/python3.10/site-packages
 ????? <string>:1: DeprecationWarning: The distutils package is 
deprecated and slated for removal in Python 3.12. Use setuptools or 
check PEP 632 for potential alternatives
 ????? checking python3 module: sphinx... no
 ????? checking python3 module: sphinx_rtd_theme... no
 ????? checking for dbus-run-session... /usr/bin/dbus-run-session
 ????? checking for pkg-config... /usr/bin/pkg-config
 ????? checking pkg-config is at least version 0.9.0... yes
 ????? checking for dbus-1 >= 1.8... no
 ????? configure: error: Package requirements (dbus-1 >= 1.8) were not met:

 ????? No package 'dbus-1' found

 ????? Consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if you
 ????? installed software in a non-standard prefix.

 ????? Alternatively, you may set the environment variables DBUS_CFLAGS
 ????? and DBUS_LIBS to avoid the need to call pkg-config.
 ????? See the pkg-config man page for more details.
 ????? Traceback (most recent call last):
 ??????? File "<string>", line 2, in <module>
 ??????? File "<pip-setuptools-caller>", line 34, in <module>
 ??????? File 
"/tmp/pip-install-2zqkrisr/dbus-python_6642a4f761e742d49b75c39a953ceb6b/setup.py", 
line 85, in <module>
 ????????? setup(
 ??????? File 
"/home/gene/printrun/Printrun/venv/lib/python3.10/site-packages/setuptools/__init__.py", 
line 153, in setup
 ????????? return distutils.core.setup(**attrs)
 ??????? File "/usr/lib/python3.10/distutils/core.py", line 148, in setup
 ????????? dist.run_commands()
 ??????? File "/usr/lib/python3.10/distutils/dist.py", line 966, in 
run_commands
 ????????? self.run_command(cmd)
 ??????? File "/usr/lib/python3.10/distutils/dist.py", line 985, in 
run_command
 ????????? cmd_obj.run()
 ??????? File 
"/home/gene/printrun/Printrun/venv/lib/python3.10/site-packages/setuptools/command/install.py", 
line 68, in run
 ????????? return orig.install.run(self)
 ??????? File "/usr/lib/python3.10/distutils/command/install.py", line 
619, in run
 ????????? self.run_command('build')
 ??????? File "/usr/lib/python3.10/distutils/cmd.py", line 313, in 
run_command
 ????????? self.distribution.run_command(command)
 ??????? File "/usr/lib/python3.10/distutils/dist.py", line 985, in 
run_command
 ????????? cmd_obj.run()
 ??????? File 
"/tmp/pip-install-2zqkrisr/dbus-python_6642a4f761e742d49b75c39a953ceb6b/setup.py", 
line 56, in run
 ????????? subprocess.check_call([
 ??????? File "/usr/lib/python3.10/subprocess.py", line 369, in check_call
 ????????? raise CalledProcessError(retcode, cmd)
 ????? subprocess.CalledProcessError: Command 
'['/tmp/pip-install-2zqkrisr/dbus-python_6642a4f761e742d49b75c39a953ceb6b/configure', 
'--disable-maintainer-mode', 
'PYTHON=/home/gene/printrun/Printrun/venv/bin/python3', 
'--prefix=/tmp/pip-install-2zqkrisr/dbus-python_6642a4f761e742d49b75c39a953ceb6b/build/temp.linux-aarch64-3.10/prefix']' 
returned non-zero exit status 1.
 ????? [end of output]

 ? note: This error originates from a subprocess, and is likely not a 
problem with pip.
error: legacy-install-failure

? Encountered error while trying to install package.
??> dbus-python

note: This is an issue with the package mentioned above, not pip.
hint: See above for output from the failure.
(venv) gene at rock64:~/printrun/Printrun$


There is help there, but to me its engrish. Next fix?
>>
>> Activating the venv is easier if you're going to use multiple 
>> commands in the venv. Note that activating the venv only has effect 
>> on the current shell; other shells are unaffected, and when you close 
>> the current shell the venv is not activated anymore.
>> Explicitly using the path is easier for one-off calls, or in things 
>> like crontab.
>>

Thank you Mark Bourne, this looks like actual progress in what has 
turned into a cast iron bitch.
I'll not touch that shell till the next advice is tendered. However 
"echo $PKG_CONFIG_PATH" is
null in this venv.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>


From hjp-python at hjp.at  Mon Aug 29 14:45:12 2022
From: hjp-python at hjp.at (Peter J. Holzer)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 20:45:12 +0200
Subject: How to make a variable's late binding crosses the module boundary?
In-Reply-To: <tei531$b6h$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <06fa821a-2c33-49a2-81e3-6f76dd0a7317n@googlegroups.com>
 <a05247e6-79f8-aa69-473f-efc78a323822@Damon-Family.org>
 <tecvul$926$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.357.1661741205.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <CAPTjJmo0EG20SeTu-nR5unqvrauR-Ora+Yiwa_2EPM=0-2nLdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1e81aff1-d1e4-48e0-9b48-bc2fcebe38dfn@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.358.1661752715.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <db1bb483-b1df-462b-81a8-2f9233b0d0abn@googlegroups.com>
 <tei531$b6h$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <20220829184512.ecfifxamjnqxmipz@hjp.at>

On 2022-08-29 11:40:33 +0100, Mark Bourne wrote:
> Jach Feng wrote:
> > Chris Angelico ? 2022?8?29? ?????1:58:58 [UTC+8] ??????
> > > On Mon, 29 Aug 2022 at 15:54, Jach Feng <jf... at ms4.hinet.net> wrote:
> > > > Sometimes I am wondering why "from x import y" hides x?
> > > > hum...can't figure out the reason:-)
> > > > 
> > > "from x import y" doesn't hide x - it just grabs y. Python does
> > > what you tell it to. :)
> > > 
> > But I had heard people say that "from x import y" did import the
> > whole x module into memory, just as "import x" did, not "grabs y"
> > only. Is this correct?
> 
> `from x import y` does import the whole module x into memory, and adds
> it to `sys.modules`.  But it only binds the name `y` in the namespace
> of module doing the import (and it binds it to the value of `x.y` at
> the time the import is done

I think this should be rephrased. "`x.y` at the time the import is done"
implies that at this time the name `x` does exist in the current
namespace.  Which then leads to the conclusion that this name must be
hidden later. But I don't think this is the case.

The module is imported but it isn't bound to any name in the current
(global) namespace (obviously there must be some variable bound to it, but
that's probably a local variable in the importer and it isn't called
`x`). Then the object bound to the name `y` in the loaed module is bound
to the name `y` in the current namespace.

        hp

-- 
   _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Story must make more sense than reality.
|_|_) |                    |
| |   | hjp at hjp.at         |    -- Charles Stross, "Creative writing
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |       challenge!"
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From hjp-python at hjp.at  Mon Aug 29 15:06:21 2022
From: hjp-python at hjp.at (Peter J. Holzer)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 21:06:21 +0200
Subject: What can I do about this?
In-Reply-To: <f8650183-4891-9200-74d9-8ce93e1f4fa6@shentel.net>
References: <38cb2d9f-9e89-39aa-341a-eee27296a523@shentel.net>
 <20220828233201.k3xmcpdnpn63wxeb@hjp.at>
 <96f5d626-5ebb-67a7-c7a7-1c6c5284fb1a@shentel.net>
 <babb2665-1571-1dcf-90e4-4bf69694be76@roelschroeven.net>
 <mailman.360.1661764787.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tei6b9$trq$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <f8650183-4891-9200-74d9-8ce93e1f4fa6@shentel.net>
Message-ID: <20220829190621.yyktkpsxdci6foas@hjp.at>

On 2022-08-29 13:43:18 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/29/22 12:50, Mark Bourne wrote:
> > Roel Schroeven wrote:
> > > $ pip3 install -r requirements.txt? # finally invoke pip3
> > > 
> > > or:
> > > 
> > > $ {path_to_venv}/bin/pip3 install -r requirements.txt
> That got me to showstopper #2: (lengthy warniing)
> 
[...]
> ????? checking for dbus-1 >= 1.8... no
> ????? configure: error: Package requirements (dbus-1 >= 1.8) were not met:
> 
> ????? No package 'dbus-1' found

Since this message comes from configure, it is probably looking
for the development version of the dbus library here.

    apt search dbus-1

reveals (among other things):

    libdbus-1-dev/jammy 1.12.20-2ubuntu4 amd64
      simple interprocess messaging system (development headers)

(this is on Ubuntu, so the version number is probably different, but the
package name should be the same as on Debian.)

So you invoke

    apt install libdbus-1-dev

and try again. At which point you will probably discove another missing
library. Rinse and repeat.

Ideally the README should mention such dependencies, but since the exact
names of the packages depend on the distribution, it will often be vague
unless you happen to use the same distribution as the developer.

        hp

-- 
   _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Story must make more sense than reality.
|_|_) |                    |
| |   | hjp at hjp.at         |    -- Charles Stross, "Creative writing
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |       challenge!"
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From hjp-python at hjp.at  Mon Aug 29 15:07:42 2022
From: hjp-python at hjp.at (Peter J. Holzer)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 21:07:42 +0200
Subject: What can I do about this?
In-Reply-To: <b4d9867f-8f05-443b-fbbf-17bf000954ba@shentel.net>
References: <38cb2d9f-9e89-39aa-341a-eee27296a523@shentel.net>
 <20220828233201.k3xmcpdnpn63wxeb@hjp.at>
 <96f5d626-5ebb-67a7-c7a7-1c6c5284fb1a@shentel.net>
 <babb2665-1571-1dcf-90e4-4bf69694be76@roelschroeven.net>
 <b4d9867f-8f05-443b-fbbf-17bf000954ba@shentel.net>
Message-ID: <20220829190742.uplsrfkvdrlwngzl@hjp.at>

On 2022-08-29 11:12:17 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> I've not had to deal with venv's before. Can more than one of these
> venv things peacefully coexist?

Yes. Having multiple venvs is the main reason for their existence.

        hp

-- 
   _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Story must make more sense than reality.
|_|_) |                    |
| |   | hjp at hjp.at         |    -- Charles Stross, "Creative writing
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |       challenge!"
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From mmontgomery at levado.to  Mon Aug 29 14:10:05 2022
From: mmontgomery at levado.to (Meredith Montgomery)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 15:10:05 -0300
Subject: Coffee
References: <Coffee-20220829131259@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <86fshe2a6a.fsf@levado.to>

ram at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:

> |Python's obviously a great tool for all kinds of programming things,
> |and I would say if you're only gonna use one programming
> |language in your live, Python will probably the right one.
> Brian Kernighan
>
>   I transcribed this from the recent video 
>   "Coffee with Brian Kernighan".

Sounds reasonable.  I have been learning Python bit by bit simply
because there seems to be no other way to talk to university people.
But somehow I am so in love with Lisp that it makes me sort of blind
because sometimes I feel more productive in Python simply because I'm
always using it.  When I can write Lisp, I do it, but often I feel like
I'm a role-playing TCP Slow Start or something like that.

From mmontgomery at levado.to  Mon Aug 29 14:18:24 2022
From: mmontgomery at levado.to (Meredith Montgomery)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 15:18:24 -0300
Subject: on GNU EMACS's python-mode, loading entire buffer
Message-ID: <86y1v6zzf3.fsf@levado.to>

Perhaps this isn't the right newsgroup, but I kinda feel I will find
more GNU EMACS users running the native python-mode here than in GNU
EMACS newsgroups.  Not every GNU EMACS user cares about Python.
(Right?)

A sort of a complaint is that when I used to run GNU EMACS 24.3.1, I'd
open a file.py and simply say C-c C-c and it would ask me if I wanted a
dedicated process, load a REPL load my entire buffer.

Now in 27.1, things are different.  I say C-c C-c and it tells me to
start the process with C-c C-p.  I mean --- is that the most polite
thing to do?  I feel like it's telling me --- go send this buffer
yourself!

I also don't know how to start a dedicated process.  (Sometimes I want
two REPLs.  You know, you can get never get enough.)

I would bet all of this and more is available, but I don't even know
which book to read.  Would you point me in the right direction?

I would also be interested in a command that restarts the REPL afresh
and reloads my buffer --- sort of like keyboard's [F5] of the IDLE.

From nntp.mbourne at spamgourmet.com  Mon Aug 29 17:38:37 2022
From: nntp.mbourne at spamgourmet.com (Mark Bourne)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 22:38:37 +0100
Subject: What can I do about this?
References: <38cb2d9f-9e89-39aa-341a-eee27296a523@shentel.net>
 <20220828233201.k3xmcpdnpn63wxeb@hjp.at>
 <96f5d626-5ebb-67a7-c7a7-1c6c5284fb1a@shentel.net>
 <babb2665-1571-1dcf-90e4-4bf69694be76@roelschroeven.net>
 <mailman.360.1661764787.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tei6b9$trq$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <f8650183-4891-9200-74d9-8ce93e1f4fa6@shentel.net>
 <mailman.364.1661795005.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tejbkt$1dp$1@gioia.aioe.org>

gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/29/22 12:50, Mark Bourne wrote:
>> Roel Schroeven wrote:
>>> Op 29/08/2022 om 2:55 schreef gene heskett:
>>>> On 8/28/22 19:39, Peter J. Holzer wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-08-28 18:40:17 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>>>>>> Persuant to my claim the py3.10 is busted, here is a sample. This 
>>>>>> is me,
>>>>>> trying to make
>>>>>> pronterface, inside a venv: When the package manager version will 
>>>>>> only run
>>>>>> the gui-less "pronsole"
>>>>>> but nothing else from that all python kit runs as it should or at 
>>>>>> all.
>>>>>> ?From the package-managers install in 
>>>>>> /usr/share/doc/printrun-common/ I
>>>>>> copied requirements.txt
>>>>>> into the venv, and ran this command line:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> gene at rock64:~/venv$ pip3 install -r requirements.txt
>>>>> You are almost certainly *not* in a venv here. First, your prompt
>>>>> doesn't show the name of the venv,
>>>> I've created that several times, as octoprint won''t run without it 
>>>> either.
>>>> I found a way to autostart it on reboots and octoprint seems happy 
>>>> with it
>>> I agree with Peter: it doesn't look as if you are invoking the pip3 
>>> in the venv. Just making the venv-directory the current directory 
>>> doesn't activate it.
>>>
>>> As a diagnostic, ask the OS which pip3 is actually used:
>>>
>>> $ type -a pip3
>>>
>>> Does that show the pip3 installed in the venv? Or the system-wide 
>>> one? If it's not the pip3 in the venv, well, then that's the problem 
>>> (or at least part of the problem). Solution: first check whether the 
>>> venv really contains 'pip3' (as opposed to eg. just 'pip'): list the 
>>> contents of the bin subdirectory of the venv. If not, use 'pip' or 
>>> whatever instead. Then to make sure you use the one in the venv, 
>>> either activate the venv or explicitly specify the path when invoking 
>>> pip/pip3 (and likewise for python/python3).
>>>
>>> So either (assuming you're using bash):
>>>
>>> $ source {path_to_venv}/bin/pip3? # activate the venv
>>
>> I think this first line should probably be:
>>
>> $ source {path_to_venv}/bin/activate? # activate the venv
>>
>> i.e. with `activate` rather than `pip3`?
>>
>>> $ type -a pip3? # check whether now the correct pip3 is used
>>> $ pip3 install -r requirements.txt? # finally invoke pip3
>>>
>>> or:
>>>
>>> $ {path_to_venv}/bin/pip3 install -r requirements.txt
> That got me to showstopper #2: (lengthy warniing)
> 
> (venv) gene at rock64:~/printrun/Printrun$ ./venv/bin/pip3 install -r 
> requirements.txt
> Ignoring pyobjc-framework-Cocoa: markers 'sys_platform == "darwin"' 
> don't match your environment
> Ignoring pyreadline: markers 'sys_platform == "win32"' don't match your 
> environment
> Requirement already satisfied: pyserial>=3.0 in 
> ./venv/lib/python3.10/site-packages (from -r requirements.txt (line 1)) 
> (3.5)
> Collecting wxPython==4.1.0
>  ? Using cached wxPython-4.1.0.tar.gz (65.8 MB)
>  ? Preparing metadata (setup.py) ... done
> Collecting numpy>=1.8.2
>  ? Using cached 
> numpy-1.23.2-cp310-cp310-manylinux_2_17_aarch64.manylinux2014_aarch64.whl (13.9 
> MB)
> Requirement already satisfied: pyglet>=1.1 in 
> ./venv/lib/python3.10/site-packages (from -r requirements.txt (line 4)) 
> (1.5.26)
> Collecting cffi
>  ? Using cached 
> cffi-1.15.1-cp310-cp310-manylinux_2_17_aarch64.manylinux2014_aarch64.whl 
> (449 kB)
> Collecting cairocffi
>  ? Using cached cairocffi-1.3.0.tar.gz (88 kB)
>  ? Preparing metadata (setup.py) ... done
> Collecting cairosvg>=1.0.9
>  ? Using cached CairoSVG-2.5.2-py3-none-any.whl (45 kB)
> Collecting psutil>=2.1
>  ? Using cached psutil-5.9.1-cp310-cp310-linux_aarch64.whl
> Collecting lxml>=2.9.1
>  ? Using cached 
> lxml-4.9.1-cp310-cp310-manylinux_2_17_aarch64.manylinux2014_aarch64.manylinux_2_24_aarch64.whl 
> (6.6 MB)
> Collecting appdirs>=1.4.0
>  ? Using cached appdirs-1.4.4-py2.py3-none-any.whl (9.6 kB)
> Collecting dbus-python>=1.2.0
>  ? Using cached dbus-python-1.2.18.tar.gz (578 kB)
>  ? Preparing metadata (setup.py) ... done
> Collecting pillow
>  ? Using cached Pillow-9.2.0-cp310-cp310-manylinux_2_28_aarch64.whl (3.1 
> MB)
> Collecting six
>  ? Using cached six-1.16.0-py2.py3-none-any.whl (11 kB)
> Collecting pycparser
>  ? Using cached pycparser-2.21-py2.py3-none-any.whl (118 kB)
> Collecting cssselect2
>  ? Using cached cssselect2-0.6.0-py3-none-any.whl (15 kB)
> Collecting tinycss2
>  ? Using cached tinycss2-1.1.1-py3-none-any.whl (21 kB)
> Collecting defusedxml
>  ? Using cached defusedxml-0.7.1-py2.py3-none-any.whl (25 kB)
> Requirement already satisfied: webencodings in 
> ./venv/lib/python3.10/site-packages (from 
> cssselect2->cairosvg>=1.0.9->-r requirements.txt (line 7)) (0.5.1)
> Using legacy 'setup.py install' for wxPython, since package 'wheel' is 
> not installed.
> Using legacy 'setup.py install' for cairocffi, since package 'wheel' is 
> not installed.
> Using legacy 'setup.py install' for dbus-python, since package 'wheel' 
> is not installed.
> Installing collected packages: dbus-python, appdirs, tinycss2, six, 
> pycparser, psutil, pillow, numpy, lxml, defusedxml, wxPython, 
> cssselect2, cffi, cairocffi, cairosvg
>  ? Running setup.py install for dbus-python ... error
>  ? error: subprocess-exited-with-error
> 
>  ? ? Running setup.py install for dbus-python did not run successfully.
>  ? ? exit code: 1
>  ? ??> [166 lines of output]
>  ????? running install
> /home/gene/printrun/Printrun/venv/lib/python3.10/site-packages/setuptools/command/install.py:34: 
> SetuptoolsDeprecationWarning: setup.py install is deprecated. Use build 
> and pip and other standards-based tools.
>  ??????? warnings.warn(
>  ????? running build
>  ????? creating 
> /tmp/pip-install-2zqkrisr/dbus-python_6642a4f761e742d49b75c39a953ceb6b/build 
> 
>  ????? creating 
> /tmp/pip-install-2zqkrisr/dbus-python_6642a4f761e742d49b75c39a953ceb6b/build/temp.linux-aarch64-3.10 
> 
>  ????? checking whether make supports nested variables... yes
>  ????? checking whether to enable maintainer-specific portions of 
> Makefiles... no
>  ????? checking for gcc... gcc
>  ????? checking whether the C compiler works... yes
>  ????? checking for C compiler default output file name... a.out
>  ????? checking for suffix of executables...
>  ????? checking whether we are cross compiling... no
>  ????? checking for suffix of object files... o
>  ????? checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes
>  ????? checking whether gcc accepts -g... yes
>  ????? checking for gcc option to accept ISO C89... none needed
>  ????? checking whether gcc understands -c and -o together... yes
>  ????? checking how to run the C preprocessor... gcc -E
>  ????? checking for grep that handles long lines and -e... /usr/bin/grep
>  ????? checking for egrep... /usr/bin/grep -E
>  ????? checking for ANSI C header files... yes
>  ????? checking for sys/types.h... yes
>  ????? checking for sys/stat.h... yes
>  ????? checking for stdlib.h... yes
>  ????? checking for string.h... yes
>  ????? checking for memory.h... yes
>  ????? checking for strings.h... yes
>  ????? checking for inttypes.h... yes
>  ????? checking for stdint.h... yes
>  ????? checking for unistd.h... yes
>  ????? checking minix/config.h usability... no
>  ????? checking minix/config.h presence... no
>  ????? checking for minix/config.h... no
>  ????? checking whether it is safe to define __EXTENSIONS__... yes
>  ????? checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c
>  ????? checking whether build environment is sane... yes
>  ????? checking for a thread-safe mkdir -p... /usr/bin/mkdir -p
>  ????? checking for gawk... no
>  ????? checking for mawk... mawk
>  ????? checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes
>  ????? checking whether make supports the include directive... yes (GNU 
> style)
>  ????? checking whether UID '1000' is supported by ustar format... yes
>  ????? checking whether GID '1000' is supported by ustar format... yes
>  ????? checking how to create a ustar tar archive... gnutar
>  ????? checking dependency style of gcc... gcc3
>  ????? checking build system type... aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu
>  ????? checking host system type... aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu
>  ????? checking for native Windows host... no
>  ????? checking how to print strings... printf
>  ????? checking for a sed that does not truncate output... /usr/bin/sed
>  ????? checking for fgrep... /usr/bin/grep -F
>  ????? checking for ld used by gcc... /usr/bin/ld
>  ????? checking if the linker (/usr/bin/ld) is GNU ld... yes
>  ????? checking for BSD- or MS-compatible name lister (nm)... 
> /usr/bin/nm -B
>  ????? checking the name lister (/usr/bin/nm -B) interface... BSD nm
>  ????? checking whether ln -s works... yes
>  ????? checking the maximum length of command line arguments... 1572864
>  ????? checking how to convert aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu file names to 
> aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu format... func_convert_file_noop
>  ????? checking how to convert aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu file names to 
> toolchain format... func_convert_file_noop
>  ????? checking for /usr/bin/ld option to reload object files... -r
>  ????? checking for objdump... objdump
>  ????? checking how to recognize dependent libraries... pass_all
>  ????? checking for dlltool... no
>  ????? checking how to associate runtime and link libraries... printf %s\n
>  ????? checking for ar... ar
>  ????? checking for archiver @FILE support... @
>  ????? checking for strip... strip
>  ????? checking for ranlib... ranlib
>  ????? checking command to parse /usr/bin/nm -B output from gcc 
> object... ok
>  ????? checking for sysroot... no
>  ????? checking for a working dd... /usr/bin/dd
>  ????? checking how to truncate binary pipes... /usr/bin/dd bs=4096 count=1
>  ????? checking for mt... mt
>  ????? checking if mt is a manifest tool... no
>  ????? checking for dlfcn.h... yes
>  ????? checking for objdir... .libs
>  ????? checking if gcc supports -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions... no
>  ????? checking for gcc option to produce PIC... -fPIC -DPIC
>  ????? checking if gcc PIC flag -fPIC -DPIC works... yes
>  ????? checking if gcc static flag -static works... yes
>  ????? checking if gcc supports -c -o file.o... yes
>  ????? checking if gcc supports -c -o file.o... (cached) yes
>  ????? checking whether the gcc linker (/usr/bin/ld) supports shared 
> libraries... yes
>  ????? checking whether -lc should be explicitly linked in... no
>  ????? checking dynamic linker characteristics... GNU/Linux ld.so
>  ????? checking how to hardcode library paths into programs... immediate
>  ????? checking whether stripping libraries is possible... yes
>  ????? checking if libtool supports shared libraries... yes
>  ????? checking whether to build shared libraries... yes
>  ????? checking whether to build static libraries... no
>  ????? checking for inline... inline
>  ????? checking for gawk... (cached) mawk
>  ????? checking for python... /home/gene/printrun/Printrun/venv/bin/python3
>  ????? checking for a version of Python >= '2.1.0'... yes
>  ????? checking for a version of Python >= '2.7'... yes
>  ????? checking for the distutils Python package... yes
>  ????? checking for Python include path... <string>:1: 
> DeprecationWarning: The distutils package is deprecated and slated for 
> removal in Python 3.12. Use setuptools or check PEP 632 for potential 
> alternatives
>  ????? <string>:1: DeprecationWarning: The distutils.sysconfig module is 
> deprecated, use sysconfig instead
>  ????? <string>:1: DeprecationWarning: The distutils package is 
> deprecated and slated for removal in Python 3.12. Use setuptools or 
> check PEP 632 for potential alternatives
>  ????? <string>:1: DeprecationWarning: The distutils.sysconfig module is 
> deprecated, use sysconfig instead
>  ????? -I/usr/include/python3.10
>  ????? checking for Python library path... <stdin>:4: 
> DeprecationWarning: The distutils package is deprecated and slated for 
> removal in Python 3.12. Use setuptools or check PEP 632 for potential 
> alternatives
>  ????? <stdin>:4: DeprecationWarning: The distutils.sysconfig module is 
> deprecated, use sysconfig instead
>  ????? <stdin>:3: DeprecationWarning: The distutils package is 
> deprecated and slated for removal in Python 3.12. Use setuptools or 
> check PEP 632 for potential alternatives
>  ????? <stdin>:3: DeprecationWarning: The distutils.sysconfig module is 
> deprecated, use sysconfig instead
>  ????? <stdin>:2: DeprecationWarning: The distutils package is 
> deprecated and slated for removal in Python 3.12. Use setuptools or 
> check PEP 632 for potential alternatives
>  ????? <stdin>:2: DeprecationWarning: The distutils.sysconfig module is 
> deprecated, use sysconfig instead
>  ????? -L/usr/lib/aarch64-linux-gnu -lpython3.10
>  ????? checking for Python site-packages path... <string>:1: 
> DeprecationWarning: The distutils package is deprecated and slated for 
> removal in Python 3.12. Use setuptools or check PEP 632 for potential 
> alternatives
>  ????? <string>:1: DeprecationWarning: The distutils.sysconfig module is 
> deprecated, use sysconfig instead
>  ????? /home/gene/printrun/Printrun/venv/lib/python3.10/site-packages
>  ????? checking python extra libraries... <string>:1: 
> DeprecationWarning: The distutils package is deprecated and slated for 
> removal in Python 3.12. Use setuptools or check PEP 632 for potential 
> alternatives
>  ????? <string>:1: DeprecationWarning: The distutils.sysconfig module is 
> deprecated, use sysconfig instead
>  ????? -lcrypt -ldl? -lm -lm
>  ????? checking python extra linking flags... <string>:1: 
> DeprecationWarning: The distutils package is deprecated and slated for 
> removal in Python 3.12. Use setuptools or check PEP 632 for potential 
> alternatives
>  ????? <string>:1: DeprecationWarning: The distutils.sysconfig module is 
> deprecated, use sysconfig instead
>  ????? -Xlinker -export-dynamic -Wl,-O1 -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions
>  ????? checking consistency of all components of python development 
> environment... yes
>  ????? checking for python version... 3.10
>  ????? checking for python platform... linux
>  ????? checking for python script directory... 
> ${prefix}/lib/python3.10/site-packages
>  ????? checking for python extension module directory... 
> ${exec_prefix}/lib/python3.10/site-packages
>  ????? <string>:1: DeprecationWarning: The distutils package is 
> deprecated and slated for removal in Python 3.12. Use setuptools or 
> check PEP 632 for potential alternatives
>  ????? checking python3 module: sphinx... no
>  ????? checking python3 module: sphinx_rtd_theme... no
>  ????? checking for dbus-run-session... /usr/bin/dbus-run-session
>  ????? checking for pkg-config... /usr/bin/pkg-config
>  ????? checking pkg-config is at least version 0.9.0... yes
>  ????? checking for dbus-1 >= 1.8... no
>  ????? configure: error: Package requirements (dbus-1 >= 1.8) were not met:
> 
>  ????? No package 'dbus-1' found
> 
>  ????? Consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if you
>  ????? installed software in a non-standard prefix.
> 
>  ????? Alternatively, you may set the environment variables DBUS_CFLAGS
>  ????? and DBUS_LIBS to avoid the need to call pkg-config.
>  ????? See the pkg-config man page for more details.
>  ????? Traceback (most recent call last):
>  ??????? File "<string>", line 2, in <module>
>  ??????? File "<pip-setuptools-caller>", line 34, in <module>
>  ??????? File 
> "/tmp/pip-install-2zqkrisr/dbus-python_6642a4f761e742d49b75c39a953ceb6b/setup.py", 
> line 85, in <module>
>  ????????? setup(
>  ??????? File 
> "/home/gene/printrun/Printrun/venv/lib/python3.10/site-packages/setuptools/__init__.py", 
> line 153, in setup
>  ????????? return distutils.core.setup(**attrs)
>  ??????? File "/usr/lib/python3.10/distutils/core.py", line 148, in setup
>  ????????? dist.run_commands()
>  ??????? File "/usr/lib/python3.10/distutils/dist.py", line 966, in 
> run_commands
>  ????????? self.run_command(cmd)
>  ??????? File "/usr/lib/python3.10/distutils/dist.py", line 985, in 
> run_command
>  ????????? cmd_obj.run()
>  ??????? File 
> "/home/gene/printrun/Printrun/venv/lib/python3.10/site-packages/setuptools/command/install.py", 
> line 68, in run
>  ????????? return orig.install.run(self)
>  ??????? File "/usr/lib/python3.10/distutils/command/install.py", line 
> 619, in run
>  ????????? self.run_command('build')
>  ??????? File "/usr/lib/python3.10/distutils/cmd.py", line 313, in 
> run_command
>  ????????? self.distribution.run_command(command)
>  ??????? File "/usr/lib/python3.10/distutils/dist.py", line 985, in 
> run_command
>  ????????? cmd_obj.run()
>  ??????? File 
> "/tmp/pip-install-2zqkrisr/dbus-python_6642a4f761e742d49b75c39a953ceb6b/setup.py", 
> line 56, in run
>  ????????? subprocess.check_call([
>  ??????? File "/usr/lib/python3.10/subprocess.py", line 369, in check_call
>  ????????? raise CalledProcessError(retcode, cmd)
>  ????? subprocess.CalledProcessError: Command 
> '['/tmp/pip-install-2zqkrisr/dbus-python_6642a4f761e742d49b75c39a953ceb6b/configure', 
> '--disable-maintainer-mode', 
> 'PYTHON=/home/gene/printrun/Printrun/venv/bin/python3', 
> '--prefix=/tmp/pip-install-2zqkrisr/dbus-python_6642a4f761e742d49b75c39a953ceb6b/build/temp.linux-aarch64-3.10/prefix']' 
> returned non-zero exit status 1.
>  ????? [end of output]
> 
>  ? note: This error originates from a subprocess, and is likely not a 
> problem with pip.
> error: legacy-install-failure
> 
> ? Encountered error while trying to install package.
> ??> dbus-python
> 
> note: This is an issue with the package mentioned above, not pip.
> hint: See above for output from the failure.
> (venv) gene at rock64:~/printrun/Printrun$
> 
> 
> There is help there, but to me its engrish. Next fix?
>>>
>>> Activating the venv is easier if you're going to use multiple 
>>> commands in the venv. Note that activating the venv only has effect 
>>> on the current shell; other shells are unaffected, and when you close 
>>> the current shell the venv is not activated anymore.
>>> Explicitly using the path is easier for one-off calls, or in things 
>>> like crontab.
>>>
> 
> Thank you Mark Bourne, this looks like actual progress in what has 
> turned into a cast iron bitch.
> I'll not touch that shell till the next advice is tendered. However 
> "echo $PKG_CONFIG_PATH" is
> null in this venv.

To be fair, it was Roel Schroeven who posted the steps and the part 
you're quoting here, and others had pointed in the direction of the venv 
not having been activated - I just posted a correction to one of Roel's 
commands.  Sorry, I can't help much with your actual problem, but 
hopefully others can.

-- 
Mark.

From drsalists at gmail.com  Mon Aug 29 19:43:37 2022
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 16:43:37 -0700
Subject: Coffee
In-Reply-To: <86fshe2a6a.fsf@levado.to>
References: <Coffee-20220829131259@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <86fshe2a6a.fsf@levado.to>
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_qe-SwWzXqJwr8_2giL8=kv2b_fj=BgmEtvQKQNY2x8Lw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 1:10 PM Meredith Montgomery <mmontgomery at levado.to>
wrote:

> ram at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:
>
> > |Python's obviously a great tool for all kinds of programming things,
> > |and I would say if you're only gonna use one programming
> > |language in your live, Python will probably the right one.
> > Brian Kernighan
> >
> >   I transcribed this from the recent video
> >   "Coffee with Brian Kernighan".
>
> Sounds reasonable.  I have been learning Python bit by bit simply
> because there seems to be no other way to talk to university people.
> But somehow I am so in love with Lisp that it makes me sort of blind
> because sometimes I feel more productive in Python simply because I'm
> always using it.  When I can write Lisp, I do it, but often I feel like
> I'm a role-playing TCP Slow Start or something like that.
>

ISTR hearing that Python and Lisp are pretty similar semantically - not
because Python copied it, but because similar thinking went into the design
of each.

From gheskett at shentel.net  Mon Aug 29 20:21:32 2022
From: gheskett at shentel.net (gene heskett)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 20:21:32 -0400
Subject: What can I do about this?
In-Reply-To: <20220829190621.yyktkpsxdci6foas@hjp.at>
References: <38cb2d9f-9e89-39aa-341a-eee27296a523@shentel.net>
 <20220828233201.k3xmcpdnpn63wxeb@hjp.at>
 <96f5d626-5ebb-67a7-c7a7-1c6c5284fb1a@shentel.net>
 <babb2665-1571-1dcf-90e4-4bf69694be76@roelschroeven.net>
 <mailman.360.1661764787.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <tei6b9$trq$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <f8650183-4891-9200-74d9-8ce93e1f4fa6@shentel.net>
 <20220829190621.yyktkpsxdci6foas@hjp.at>
Message-ID: <493a141f-5c31-2abb-c424-a8355386bed9@shentel.net>

On 8/29/22 15:12, Peter J. Holzer wrote:
> On 2022-08-29 13:43:18 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>> On 8/29/22 12:50, Mark Bourne wrote:
>>> Roel Schroeven wrote:
>>>> $ pip3 install -r requirements.txt? # finally invoke pip3
>>>>
>>>> or:
>>>>
>>>> $ {path_to_venv}/bin/pip3 install -r requirements.txt
>> That got me to showstopper #2: (lengthy warniing)
>>
> [...]
>>  ????? checking for dbus-1 >= 1.8... no
>>  ????? configure: error: Package requirements (dbus-1 >= 1.8) were not met:
>>
>>  ????? No package 'dbus-1' found
> Since this message comes from configure, it is probably looking
> for the development version of the dbus library here.
>
>      apt search dbus-1
>
> reveals (among other things):
>
>      libdbus-1-dev/jammy 1.12.20-2ubuntu4 amd64
>        simple interprocess messaging system (development headers)
>
> (this is on Ubuntu, so the version number is probably different, but the
> package name should be the same as on Debian.)
>
> So you invoke
>
>      apt install libdbus-1-dev
>
> and try again. At which point you will probably discove another missing
> library. Rinse and repeat.
You left out the wash, ;) The next missing dev was a gtk thingy, but 
search only returned
one .dev. One for spice-gtk, and that pulled in around 100 more 
packages, and now its stuck
on wxPython for about 35 minutes and, way into swap, like several 
hundred megs &
growing. I even went to its keyboard and shut down chromium to give it 
more play
room. Didn't seem to help though. But it hasn't errored, and swap is 
going? down a
meg here and there. Pounding that poor, cheap sd card all to hell I 
expect. At some point,
I'll unpack a startech usb3-sata cable and try an SSD. But I'll not 
disturb this just yet.

Works well on an r-pi4b where I can build linuxcnc in half an hour from 
the git pull. I
run a 3/4 ton, 80 yo Sheldon lathe with linuxcnc just to see if I could 
do it, first on an rpi3b.
Had to build my own realtime kernel and figure out how to install it 
because I wanted to
do it on a pi, got black holed on their forum. The amazing part is that 
the tarball to install
it is only 28 megs uncompressed.
> Ideally the README should mention such dependencies, but since the exact
> names of the packages depend on the distribution, it will often be vague
> unless you happen to use the same distribution as the developer.
Your forgot to mention that each packager is working in his own sound 
proof booth, so
each comes up with a somewhat different way to pound that square peg 
into a 7 point hole.
;o)>

It was obviously going to take hours so I took a nap and 4 hours later 
it had left out a
few things but kept on going until it hit another showstopper while 
building wxPython-4.1.
At which point it spit out 2600 some lines of backtrace.

Ending with this:
 ???? In file included from 
../../../../sip/cpp/sip_glcanvaswxGLContext.cpp:10:
 ????? ../../../../sip/cpp/sipAPI_glcanvas.h:865:198: error: 
?wxGLCanvasName? was not declared in this scope; did you mean ?wxGLCanvas??
 ??????? 865 |???? wxGLCanvas(wxWindow *parent, const wxGLAttributes 
&dispAttrs, wxWindowID id=wxID_ANY, const wxPoint 
&pos=wxDefaultPosition, const wxSize &size=wxDefaultSize, long style=0, 
const wxString &name=wxGLCanvasName, const wxPalette &palette=wxNullPalette)
| ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| wxGLCanvas

 ????? Waf: Leaving directory 
`/tmp/pip-install-1myz6noi/wxpython_5fdcad39f0c544599dd49fdd522391f2/build/waf/3.1/gtk3'
 ????? Build failed
 ?????? -> task in '_glcanvas' failed with exit status 1 (run with -v to 
display more information)
 ?????? -> task in '_glcanvas' failed with exit status 1 (run with -v to 
display more information)
 ?????? -> task in '_glcanvas' failed with exit status 1 (run with -v to 
display more information)
 ?????? -> task in '_glcanvas' failed with exit status 1 (run with -v to 
display more information)
 ????? Command '"/home/gene/printrun/Printrun/venv/bin/python3" 
/tmp/pip-install-1myz6noi/wxpython_5fdcad39f0c544599dd49fdd522391f2/bin/waf-2.0.19 
--wx_config=/tmp/pip-install-1myz6noi/wxpython_5fdcad39f0c544599dd49fdd522391f2/build/wxbld/gtk3/wx-config 
--gtk3 --python="/home/gene/printrun/Printrun/venv/bin/python3" 
--out=build/waf/3.1/gtk3 configure build ' failed with exit code 1.
 ????? Finished command: build_py (100m40.712s)
 ????? Finished command: build (171m37.482s)
 ????? Command '"/home/gene/printrun/Printrun/venv/bin/python3" -u 
build.py build' failed with exit code 1.
 ????? [end of output]

 ? note: This error originates from a subprocess, and is likely not a 
problem with pip.
error: legacy-install-failure

? Encountered error while trying to install package.
??> wxPython

note: This is an issue with the package mentioned above, not pip.
hint: See above for output from the failure.
================
Now, I have the unpacked tarball of wxPython-4.2.0 sitting in 
/home/gene/src.

Where would I mv it to to substituted for the 4.1 since 4.1 isn't quite 
ready for prime time?

I changed the 1 to a 2 in requirements.txt, but that exited in a few 
seconds after it
downloaded another copy of the tarball, with another error I have see 
before while
trying to build it in /home/gene/src's/unpacked_tarball tree.

paste of error:

(venv) gene at rock64:~/printrun/Printrun$ ./venv/bin/pip3 install -r 
requirements.txt
Ignoring pyobjc-framework-Cocoa: markers 'sys_platform == "darwin"' 
don't match your environment
Ignoring pyreadline: markers 'sys_platform == "win32"' don't match your 
environment
Requirement already satisfied: pyserial>=3.0 in 
./venv/lib/python3.10/site-packages (from -r requirements.txt (line 1)) 
(3.5)
Collecting wxPython==4.2.0
 ? Using cached wxPython-4.2.0.tar.gz (71.0 MB)
 ? Preparing metadata (setup.py) ... error
 ? error: subprocess-exited-with-error

 ? ? python setup.py egg_info did not run successfully.
 ? ? exit code: 1
 ? ??> [8 lines of output]
 ????? Traceback (most recent call last):
 ??????? File "<string>", line 2, in <module>
 ??????? File "<pip-setuptools-caller>", line 34, in <module>
 ??????? File 
"/tmp/pip-install-x9vpdn0f/wxpython_75085d87ddc7455cb159bbbb95177417/setup.py", 
line 27, in <module>
 ????????? from buildtools.config import Config, msg, opj, runcmd, 
canGetSOName, getSOName
 ??????? File 
"/tmp/pip-install-x9vpdn0f/wxpython_75085d87ddc7455cb159bbbb95177417/buildtools/config.py", 
line 30, in <module>
 ????????? from attrdict import AttrDict
 ????? ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'attrdict'
 ????? [end of output]

 ? note: This error originates from a subprocess, and is likely not a 
problem with pip.
error: metadata-generation-failed

? Encountered error while generating package metadata.
??> See above for output.

note: This is an issue with the package mentioned above, not pip.
hint: See above for details.
(venv) gene at rock64:~/printrun/Printrun$

I've found it , the src tarball.gz. In /home/gene/Downloads.

Is that tarball updatable? Or should I ignore it & go back to wxPython-4.1?
Is it fixable?
>          hp
>
Thanks Peter. Take care and stay well.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>


From jfong at ms4.hinet.net  Mon Aug 29 21:02:53 2022
From: jfong at ms4.hinet.net (Jach Feng)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 18:02:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to make a variable's late binding crosses the module boundary?
In-Reply-To: <tei531$b6h$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <06fa821a-2c33-49a2-81e3-6f76dd0a7317n@googlegroups.com>
 <a05247e6-79f8-aa69-473f-efc78a323822@Damon-Family.org>
 <tecvul$926$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.357.1661741205.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <CAPTjJmo0EG20SeTu-nR5unqvrauR-Ora+Yiwa_2EPM=0-2nLdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1e81aff1-d1e4-48e0-9b48-bc2fcebe38dfn@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.358.1661752715.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <db1bb483-b1df-462b-81a8-2f9233b0d0abn@googlegroups.com>
 <tei531$b6h$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <6db8e7db-b3b9-46b9-a9c7-4cc608bc56een@googlegroups.com>

Mark Bourne ? 2022?8?29? ?????6:40:59 [UTC+8] ??????
> Jach Feng wrote: 
> > Chris Angelico ? 2022?8?29? ?????1:58:58 [UTC+8] ?????? 
> >> On Mon, 29 Aug 2022 at 15:54, Jach Feng <jf... at ms4.hinet.net> wrote: 
> >>> 
> >>> Richard Damon ? 2022?8?29? ?????10:47:08 [UTC+8] ?????? 
> >>>> On 8/27/22 7:42 AM, Mark Bourne wrote: 
> >>>>> Jach Feng wrote: 
> >>>>>> I have two files: test.py and test2.py 
> >>>>>> --test.py-- 
> >>>>>> x = 2 
> >>>>>> def foo(): 
> >>>>>> print(x) 
> >>>>>> foo() 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> x = 3 
> >>>>>> foo() 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> --test2.py-- 
> >>>>>> from test import * 
> >>>>>> x = 4 
> >>>>>> foo() 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> ----- 
> >>>>>> Run test.py under Winows8.1, I get the expected result: 
> >>>>>> e:\MyDocument>py test.py 
> >>>>>> 2 
> >>>>>> 3 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> But when run test2.py, the result is not my expected 2,3,4:-( 
> >>>>>> e:\MyDocument>py test2.py 
> >>>>>> 2 
> >>>>>> 3 
> >>>>>> 3 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> What to do? 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> `from test import *` does not link the names in `test2` to those in 
> >>>>> `test`. It just binds objects bound to names in `test` to the same 
> >>>>> names in `test2`. A bit like doing: 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> import test 
> >>>>> x = test.x 
> >>>>> foo = test.foo 
> >>>>> del test 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Subsequently assigning a different object to `x` in one module does 
> >>>>> not affect the object assigned to `x` in the other module. So `x = 4` 
> >>>>> in `test2.py` does not affect the object assigned to `x` in `test.py` 
> >>>>> - that's still `3`. If you want to do that, you need to import `test` 
> >>>>> and assign to `test.x`, for example: 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> import test 
> >>>>> test.x = 4 
> >>>>> test.foo() 
> >>>>> 
> >>>> Yes, fundamental issue is that the statement 
> >>>> 
> >>>> from x import y 
> >>>> 
> >>>> makes a binding in this module to the object CURRECTLY bound to x.y to 
> >>>> the name y, but if x.y gets rebound, this module does not track the changes. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> You can mutate the object x.y and see the changes, but not rebind it. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> If you need to see rebindings, you can't use the "from x import y" form, 
> >>>> or at a minimum do it as: 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> import x 
> >>>> 
> >>>> from x import y 
> >>>> 
> >>>> then later to get rebindings to x.y do a 
> >>>> 
> >>>> y = x.y 
> >>>> 
> >>>> to rebind to the current x.y object. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> -- 
> >>>> Richard Damon 
> >>> Yes, an extra "import x" will solve my problem too! Sometimes I am wondering why "from x import y" hides x? hum...can't figure out the reason:-) 
> >>> 
> >> "from x import y" doesn't hide x - it just grabs y. Python does what 
> >> you tell it to. :) 
> >> 
> >> ChrisA 
> > But I had heard people say that "from x import y" did import the whole x module into memory, just as "import x" did, not "grabs y" only. Is this correct?
> `from x import y` does import the whole module x into memory, and adds 
> it to `sys.modules`. But it only binds the name `y` in the namespace of 
> module doing the import (and it binds it to the value of `x.y` at the 
> time the import is done - it doesn't magically keep them in sync if one 
> or the other is later reassigned). 
> 
> The point about the whole module being imported is that you don't save 
> any memory by using `from x import y` to avoid importing some very large 
> object `z` from `x`. Those other large objects might be needed by 
> functions which have been imported (e.g. your `foo` function still needs 
> `x` even if you haven't imported `x` - so it still needs to be loaded 
> into memory) or might be imported and used by other modules importing 
> `x`, so they still have to be loaded when any part of `x` is imported - 
> they just don't have to be bound to names in the importing module's 
> namespace. 
> 
> As Richard mentioned, if `x.y` is a mutable object (such as a list) you 
> can still mutate that object (e.g. add/remove items) and those changes 
> will be seen in both modules. That's because both are still bound to 
> the same object and you're mutating that existing object. If you assign 
> a new list to either, that won't be seen by the other. 
> 
> -- 
> Mark.
When using dot notation to change variable, no matter if 'x.y' is a mutable or immutable object, the change
will be seen in both modules except those early bindings.

--Jach

From gheskett at shentel.net  Mon Aug 29 22:57:50 2022
From: gheskett at shentel.net (gene heskett)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 22:57:50 -0400
Subject: venv questions
Message-ID: <fdedd484-da4d-5663-26f1-3ef6019d94a2@shentel.net>

Greetings all;

The command to setup a venv, "python -m venv venv" has no man page that 
I have
found.

So I'm guessing that one of the venv's is the name of the one being 
created. Probably
argv(3) in c parlance.

What I am thinking about is setting up two venv's more or less named for 
the printer
that copy of octoprint will administer,

So how about some tutorial on creating the venv?

But that might create another problem. how to differentiate the servers, 
both of which
will want to use localhost:5000 to serve up their web pages we run 
things with.

Suggested solutions?

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
 ?-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must
first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Aug 29 23:09:22 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 13:09:22 +1000
Subject: venv questions
In-Reply-To: <fdedd484-da4d-5663-26f1-3ef6019d94a2@shentel.net>
References: <fdedd484-da4d-5663-26f1-3ef6019d94a2@shentel.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoRM4ag4icNjCsXs=KsSH6OUTQZ2e1cuFT_RNnaV-FgSg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 at 12:59, gene heskett <gheskett at shentel.net> wrote:
>
> Greetings all;
>
> The command to setup a venv, "python -m venv venv" has no man page that
> I have
> found.
>

$ python3 -m venv --help
usage: venv [-h] [--system-site-packages] [--symlinks | --copies] [--clear]
            [--upgrade] [--without-pip] [--prompt PROMPT] [--upgrade-deps]
            ENV_DIR [ENV_DIR ...]

Creates virtual Python environments in one or more target directories.

positional arguments:
  ENV_DIR               A directory to create the environment in.

(chomp all the explanation of options)

ChrisA

From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Aug 29 23:16:00 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 13:16:00 +1000
Subject: Running two separate servers (was Re: venv questions)
In-Reply-To: <fdedd484-da4d-5663-26f1-3ef6019d94a2@shentel.net>
References: <fdedd484-da4d-5663-26f1-3ef6019d94a2@shentel.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr5ynuN0OUSyEPoKYWtiu3vnhRjnjYD7Ls9Sxnn7jGAVg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 at 12:59, gene heskett <gheskett at shentel.net> wrote:
>
> But that might create another problem. how to differentiate the servers,
> both of which
> will want to use localhost:5000 to serve up their web pages we run
> things with.
>
> Suggested solutions?

This is nothing to do with venvs, so I'm forking the thread.

By far the easiest way to differentiate them is to NOT have them both
on localhost:5000. Depending on how you invoke the servers, you should
be able to find a way to configure one (or both) of them to a
different port; common methods include a "--port" argument, setting
the PORT environment variable, and poking in the code to find the
number 5000 and changing it to some other value.

(Less common methods include poking in ctypes to find the number 5000
and changing it to some other value. Mentioned only because I realise
the alternative interpretation of my previous comment.)

Another method would be to change the "localhost" part. The standard
for IP addresses is that 127.x.y.z means localhost, regardless of what
x, y, and z are; so you could have one of them bind to 127.0.0.2 and
the other to 127.0.0.3, which you could then use in your browser the
same way (http://127.0.0.2:5000/ and http://127.0.0.3:5000/
respectively).

But if you can't change anything else, you'll have to make the two
processes cooperate in some way, or worst case, just make sure you
shut one down before you start the other up.

ChrisA

From mmontgomery at levado.to  Mon Aug 29 22:28:46 2022
From: mmontgomery at levado.to (Meredith Montgomery)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 23:28:46 -0300
Subject: on GNU EMACS's python-mode, loading entire buffer
References: <86y1v6zzf3.fsf@levado.to> <87zgfmyj0f.fsf@nightsong.com>
Message-ID: <86sflezcpt.fsf@levado.to>

Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> writes:

> Meredith Montgomery <mmontgomery at levado.to> writes:
>> Now in 27.1, things are different.  I say C-c C-c and it tells me to
>> start the process with C-c C-p.  I mean --- is that the most polite
>> thing to do?  I feel like it's telling me --- go send this buffer
>> yourself!
>
> Hmm, I noticed that too, but I thought it was a change in python-mode
> itself.  I just got used to it.  I didn't bother trying to chase it down.

These little conveniences are so important. :-)

> To start a new process, try C-u C-c C-p .

Oh, thank you!

From PythonList at DancesWithMice.info  Tue Aug 30 00:05:43 2022
From: PythonList at DancesWithMice.info (dn)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 16:05:43 +1200
Subject: How to make a variable's late binding crosses the module boundary?
In-Reply-To: <20220829184512.ecfifxamjnqxmipz@hjp.at>
References: <06fa821a-2c33-49a2-81e3-6f76dd0a7317n@googlegroups.com>
 <a05247e6-79f8-aa69-473f-efc78a323822@Damon-Family.org>
 <tecvul$926$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.357.1661741205.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <CAPTjJmo0EG20SeTu-nR5unqvrauR-Ora+Yiwa_2EPM=0-2nLdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1e81aff1-d1e4-48e0-9b48-bc2fcebe38dfn@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.358.1661752715.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <db1bb483-b1df-462b-81a8-2f9233b0d0abn@googlegroups.com>
 <tei531$b6h$1@gioia.aioe.org> <20220829184512.ecfifxamjnqxmipz@hjp.at>
Message-ID: <4dd1b949-cdd2-5b27-79ee-5f49fb26ea09@DancesWithMice.info>

On 30/08/2022 06.45, Peter J. Holzer wrote:

> The module is imported but it isn't bound to any name in the current
> (global) namespace (obviously there must be some variable bound to it, but
> that's probably a local variable in the importer and it isn't called
> `x`). Then the object bound to the name `y` in the loaed module is bound
> to the name `y` in the current namespace.


Correct!

Build module.py as:
***
CONSTANT = 1

def func():
    pass
***

then in the terminal:
***
Python 3.9.13 (main, May 18 2022, 00:00:00)
[GCC 11.3.1 20220421 (Red Hat 11.3.1-2)] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from module import func as f
>>> locals()
{'__name__': '__main__', '__doc__': None, '__package__': None,
'__loader__': <class '_frozen_importlib.BuiltinImporter'>, '__spec__':
None, '__annotations__': {}, '__builtins__': <module 'builtins'
(built-in)>, 'f': <function func at 0x7f6faa8269d0>}
>>> f
<function func at 0x7f6faa8269d0>
>>> f.CONSTANT
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
AttributeError: 'function' object has no attribute 'CONSTANT'
>>> module.CONSTANT
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
NameError: name 'module' is not defined

# no mention of module and no access to CONSTANT

>>> import module as m
>>> locals()
{'__name__': '__main__', '__doc__': None, '__package__': None,
'__loader__': <class '_frozen_importlib.BuiltinImporter'>, '__spec__':
None, '__annotations__': {}, '__builtins__': <module 'builtins'
(built-in)>, 'f': <function func at 0x7f6faa8269d0>, 'm': <module
'module' from '/home/dn/Projects/ListQuestions/module.py'>}
>>> m
<module 'module' from '/home/dn/Projects/ListQuestions/module.py'>
>>> m.func
<function func at 0x7f6faa8269d0>
>>> m.CONSTANT
1
>>> module
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
NameError: name 'module' is not defined

# name module is bound as m, and not available as module

>>> import module
>>> locals()
{'__name__': '__main__', '__doc__': None, '__package__': None,
'__loader__': <class '_frozen_importlib.BuiltinImporter'>, '__spec__':
None, '__annotations__': {}, '__builtins__': <module 'builtins'
(built-in)>, 'f': <function func at 0x7f6faa8269d0>, 'm': <module
'module' from '/home/dn/Projects/ListQuestions/module.py'>, 'module':
<module 'module' from '/home/dn/Projects/ListQuestions/module.py'>}
>>> module.func
<function func at 0x7f6faa8269d0>
>>> module.CONSTANT
1
>>> module
<module 'module' from '/home/dn/Projects/ListQuestions/module.py'>

# now it is available
# also notice how the function (func) now has three
'names'/access-methods but all lead to the same location
***

-- 
Regards,
=dn

From gheskett at shentel.net  Tue Aug 30 05:50:18 2022
From: gheskett at shentel.net (gene heskett)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 05:50:18 -0400
Subject: Running two separate servers (was Re: venv questions)
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmr5ynuN0OUSyEPoKYWtiu3vnhRjnjYD7Ls9Sxnn7jGAVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdedd484-da4d-5663-26f1-3ef6019d94a2@shentel.net>
 <CAPTjJmr5ynuN0OUSyEPoKYWtiu3vnhRjnjYD7Ls9Sxnn7jGAVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3ea3ae6-a514-23d9-b01c-ec8bdab1f56a@shentel.net>

On 8/29/22 23:22, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 at 12:59, gene heskett <gheskett at shentel.net> wrote:
>> But that might create another problem. how to differentiate the servers,
>> both of which
>> will want to use localhost:5000 to serve up their web pages we run
>> things with.
>>
>> Suggested solutions?
> This is nothing to do with venvs, so I'm forking the thread.
>
> By far the easiest way to differentiate them is to NOT have them both
> on localhost:5000. Depending on how you invoke the servers, you should
> be able to find a way to configure one (or both) of them to a
> different port; common methods include a "--port" argument, setting
> the PORT environment variable, and poking in the code to find the
> number 5000 and changing it to some other value.
>
> (Less common methods include poking in ctypes to find the number 5000
> and changing it to some other value. Mentioned only because I realise
> the alternative interpretation of my previous comment.)
>
> Another method would be to change the "localhost" part. The standard
> for IP addresses is that 127.x.y.z means localhost, regardless of what
> x, y, and z are; so you could have one of them bind to 127.0.0.2 and
> the other to 127.0.0.3, which you could then use in your browser the
> same way (http://127.0.0.2:5000/ and http://127.0.0.3:5000/
> respectively).
>
> But if you can't change anything else, you'll have to make the two
> processes cooperate in some way, or worst case, just make sure you
> shut one down before you start the other up.
>
> ChrisA
That is a limitation I'd druther not have to deal with Chris. I want two
separate octoprint servers running with no interaction between them.

So I'm thinking of venv's named rock64prusa, and rock64ender5+, each with
"port#" on my local net. So chromium could have two tabs open, one to
localhost:5000 and one to localhost:5001, totally independent of each other.

I already have that in my /etc/hosts file. No dns resolving involved.

And from snooping just now, the port # is set it /etc/default/octoprint, 
so copy
/etc/default/octoprint to octoprint-prusa, and to octoprint-ender5+, do 
the same in
/etc/init.d, and change the port # & venv name? in the -ender5+ version. 
Then
reconfigure the ender5+ version to drive that printer.

With the venv isolation, it should work, with a browser tab at 
localhost:5000 and
another tab at localhost:5001, each pointing at its own directory tree 
in /home/gene.

The separation is also because of the way linux finds usb facilities, the
prusa is always /dev/ttyACM0 and the ender5+ is almost always /dev/ttyUSB0.
in this case I've a 4 port usb hub with port disabling switches plugged
into the rock64.

One of the things I want to try is plugging in a startech usb3 to sata 
adapter
with a small SSD plugged into it, and move the /tmp directory off that poor
u-sd card to prolong its life.

And each with its own input buffer that cura can see from here. The new 
cura 5.1
has its own set of problems, not being able to see octoprints defaulted 
input buffer
hidden behind a dotted directory being a starter, toss in that it has no 
way to look at
.. and that requires a user session of mc just to move the gcode 
produced to be printed
from a local dir here to the input buffer of that instance of octoprint.

Back at this come daylight.? Thank you Chris.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Aug 30 06:45:56 2022
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 20:45:56 +1000
Subject: Running two separate servers (was Re: venv questions)
In-Reply-To: <f3ea3ae6-a514-23d9-b01c-ec8bdab1f56a@shentel.net>
References: <fdedd484-da4d-5663-26f1-3ef6019d94a2@shentel.net>
 <CAPTjJmr5ynuN0OUSyEPoKYWtiu3vnhRjnjYD7Ls9Sxnn7jGAVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <f3ea3ae6-a514-23d9-b01c-ec8bdab1f56a@shentel.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqip3L5i7QnkuzxaanpN75YSAo5WdvF7SvP+u2gEhrsXg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 at 19:51, gene heskett <gheskett at shentel.net> wrote:
> So I'm thinking of venv's named rock64prusa, and rock64ender5+, each with
> "port#" on my local net. So chromium could have two tabs open, one to
> localhost:5000 and one to localhost:5001, totally independent of each other.
>

As I said, that has absolutely nothing to do with venvs, so you'd have
to figure out how to change their port numbers independently.

(Although you could probably add an env var to the venv's activation
script, if that would help.)

ChrisA

From Joseph.Schachner at Teledyne.com  Tue Aug 30 13:26:24 2022
From: Joseph.Schachner at Teledyne.com (Schachner, Joseph (US))
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 17:26:24 +0000
Subject: How to make a variable's late binding crosses the module boundary?
In-Reply-To: <module-20220830060757@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
References: <06fa821a-2c33-49a2-81e3-6f76dd0a7317n@googlegroups.com>
 <a05247e6-79f8-aa69-473f-efc78a323822@Damon-Family.org>
 <tecvul$926$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.357.1661741205.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <CAPTjJmo0EG20SeTu-nR5unqvrauR-Ora+Yiwa_2EPM=0-2nLdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1e81aff1-d1e4-48e0-9b48-bc2fcebe38dfn@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.358.1661752715.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <db1bb483-b1df-462b-81a8-2f9233b0d0abn@googlegroups.com>
 <tei531$b6h$1@gioia.aioe.org> <20220829184512.ecfifxamjnqxmipz@hjp.at>
 <4dd1b949-cdd2-5b27-79ee-5f49fb26ea09@DancesWithMice.info>
 <mailman.373.1661832355.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <module-20220830060757@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <BYAPR14MB2854028E175713842CA82EBDF5799@BYAPR14MB2854.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

The way we do this, is in main.py, call a "globalizer" function in each other file:

    # call globalizers to get shortcuts as global variables
    funcs.globalizer(interface, variable_dict)
    util.globalizer(interface, variable_dict)
    sd.globalizer(interface, variable_dict)
    tests.globalizer(interface, variable_dict)
    ut.globalizer(interface, variable_dict)

Obviously, you may not need a shared interface in which case you can just pass the variable dictionary.

In each file, you have a function:
def globalizer(interface, variables_dict):
    # create global variables for this .py file for shared interface and the variables
    ....

This works well, making sure separate python files shared exactly the same things we want to be global.

---- Joseph S.

Teledyne Confidential; Commercially Sensitive Business Data

-----Original Message-----
From: Stefan Ram <ram at zedat.fu-berlin.de> 
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2022 1:09 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: How to make a variable's late binding crosses the module boundary?

dn <PythonList at DancesWithMice.info> writes:
>Build module.py as:
>***
>CONSTANT = 1

>def func():
>    pass
>***

>then in the terminal:
>***
>Python 3.9.13 (main, May 18 2022, 00:00:00) [GCC 11.3.1 20220421 (Red 
>Hat 11.3.1-2)] on linux Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or 
>"license" for more information.
>>>> from module import func as f

  In CPython one then can also:

print( f.__globals__[ "CONSTANT" ])
import sys
module = sys.modules[ f.__globals__[ "__name__" ]] print( module.CONSTANT ) CONSTANT = module.CONSTANT print( CONSTANT )

  .



From g.rwaga at gmail.com  Tue Aug 30 11:09:21 2022
From: g.rwaga at gmail.com (George Rwaga)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 10:09:21 -0500
Subject: Download Python 3.10.6 for windows
Message-ID: <CAMDdFmGFoyUwrdrpfsDKs_NMf9SxhwW+JAbJA+akhjV8G8OXsg@mail.gmail.com>

I last installed an updated version of python more than  a year back. I am
trying to download (from  https://www.python.org/downloads/ ) and install
Python 3.10.6 for Windows - but I keep running into problems.

1. I installed Python 3.10.6 in the default directory
C:\Users\xxxxx.xxxxx\AppData\local\programs\Python\Python310
After the installation, there was no shortcut on my desktop. I thought I
would just go to Python310 and create a shortcut. But I am unable to find
AppData.
2. I then decided to install Python3.10.6 in a customized directory
C:\program files\Python\Python310
I am being asked to verify access to this directly. I went to properties,
made what I thought were the relevant changes. But I keep getting asked to
verify access.

My R and RStudio are installed in C:\program files.

How should I proceed?

George
--

From michael.stemper at gmail.com  Tue Aug 30 12:49:34 2022
From: michael.stemper at gmail.com (Michael F. Stemper)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 11:49:34 -0500
Subject: Coffee
In-Reply-To: <Coffee-20220829131259@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
References: <Coffee-20220829131259@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <telf2v$1h3k8$1@dont-email.me>

On 29/08/2022 07.16, Stefan Ram wrote:
> |Python's obviously a great tool for all kinds of programming things,
> |and I would say if you're only gonna use one programming
> |language in your live, Python will probably the right one.
> Brian Kernighan
> 
>    I transcribed this from the recent video
>    "Coffee with Brian Kernighan".

For those who'd like to see the whole chat:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNyQxXw_oMQ>

-- 
Michael F. Stemper
Deuteronomy 24:17

From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Aug 30 16:18:03 2022
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 21:18:03 +0100
Subject: Download Python 3.10.6 for windows
In-Reply-To: <CAMDdFmGFoyUwrdrpfsDKs_NMf9SxhwW+JAbJA+akhjV8G8OXsg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMDdFmGFoyUwrdrpfsDKs_NMf9SxhwW+JAbJA+akhjV8G8OXsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5c92ac75-0266-06cd-0c27-9251c8f4979b@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2022-08-30 16:09, George Rwaga wrote:
> I last installed an updated version of python more than  a year back. I am
> trying to download (from  https://www.python.org/downloads/ ) and install
> Python 3.10.6 for Windows - but I keep running into problems.
> 
> 1. I installed Python 3.10.6 in the default directory
> C:\Users\xxxxx.xxxxx\AppData\local\programs\Python\Python310
> After the installation, there was no shortcut on my desktop. I thought I
> would just go to Python310 and create a shortcut. But I am unable to find
> AppData.

In the File Explorer window, select the View tab and turn on the Hidden 
Items checkbox. The AppData folder should then become visible.

Alternatively, enter "%appdata%" in the path bar, and that should take 
you to a subfolder of the AppData folder. You can then navigate from there.

> 2. I then decided to install Python3.10.6 in a customized directory
> C:\program files\Python\Python310
> I am being asked to verify access to this directly. I went to properties,
> made what I thought were the relevant changes. But I keep getting asked to
> verify access.
> 
> My R and RStudio are installed in C:\program files.
> 
> How should I proceed?
> 


From gheskett at shentel.net  Tue Aug 30 16:58:37 2022
From: gheskett at shentel.net (gene heskett)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 16:58:37 -0400
Subject: Running two separate servers (was Re: venv questions)
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqip3L5i7QnkuzxaanpN75YSAo5WdvF7SvP+u2gEhrsXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdedd484-da4d-5663-26f1-3ef6019d94a2@shentel.net>
 <CAPTjJmr5ynuN0OUSyEPoKYWtiu3vnhRjnjYD7Ls9Sxnn7jGAVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <f3ea3ae6-a514-23d9-b01c-ec8bdab1f56a@shentel.net>
 <CAPTjJmqip3L5i7QnkuzxaanpN75YSAo5WdvF7SvP+u2gEhrsXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26159533-8cb9-8858-1ac3-e5397613ebce@shentel.net>

On 8/30/22 06:52, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 at 19:51, gene heskett <gheskett at shentel.net> wrote:
>> So I'm thinking of venv's named rock64prusa, and rock64ender5+, each with
>> "port#" on my local net. So chromium could have two tabs open, one to
>> localhost:5000 and one to localhost:5001, totally independent of each other.
>>
> As I said, that has absolutely nothing to do with venvs, so you'd have
> to figure out how to change their port numbers independently.
>
> (Although you could probably add an env var to the venv's activation
> script, if that would help.)
>
> ChrisA
The short script as /etc/default/octoprint has that PORT item. I see no 
reason it
couldn't be renamed and edited to affect the desired separation.
(venv) gene at rock64:~/printrun/Printrun/venv$ cat /etc/default/octoprint
==============
# Configuration for /etc/init.d/octoprint

# The init.d script will only run if this variable non-empty.
OCTOPRINT_USER=gene

# base directory to use, change this for cura in both copies so cura can 
see it on the /sshnet
# make it unique and get rid of the dot.
BASEDIR=/home/gene/.octoprint

# configuration file to use, relocate this for uniqueness
CONFIGFILE=/home/gene/.octoprint/config.yaml

# On what port to run daemon, default is 5000, anything not it use for 
2nd ender5+ version
PORT=5000

# Path to the OctoPrint executable, you need to set this to match your 
installation!
# change the venv to a unique name
DAEMON=/home/gene/OctoPrint/venv/bin/octoprint

# What arguments to pass to octoprint, usually no need to touch this
DAEMON_ARGS="--port=$PORT"

# Umask of files octoprint generates, Change this to 000 if running 
octoprint as its own, separate user
UMASK=022

# Process priority, 0 here will result in a priority 20 process.
# -2 ensures Octoprint has a slight priority over user processes.
NICELEVEL=-2

# Should we run at startup?
START=yes
====EOF====================

Edit two copies of this in defaults with individual names,

Edit 2 copies of /etc/init.d/octoprint with unique names

make two uniquely named venv's.

The two should never meet nor interfere with each other. So far, I've got
it running in a venv named prusa-mk3s. Now checking to see if it see's a
gcode file uploaded directly from cura here on this machine.

Short answer is no, octoprint cannot see an uploads directory in the 
prusa-mk3s directory.
In fact, it cannot see, or even create a new uploads directory. But I 
made one with mc, put
a gcode file there, not seen, got po'd and gave it 755 perms, bingo, it 
needed exec perms,
and cura wasn't setting them. Chalk up another bitch at cura. Or at 
octoprint, gcode is a text file
fur crying in the beer.? The rwXrwXrwX should not affect it IMO.

I need another batch of cable clips to neaten up the ender5+, so let me 
see if it can do that.
Now that I have the rules in hand, maybe I can make a second copy work 
at the same time.

IF I can figure out how to make it use a unique name for its PID identifier
.
Might have to change a character in the launchers name w/o changing the 
script. Or better yet,
rename the executable?

IDK. And hour lateer, cable clips went nice and clean, so the first 
instance is working fine.

And there isn't a PID for octoprint anyplace in /var unless its under 
the snakes umbrella.

Progress, discovering bugs and work-arounds in octoprint. Now I'm 
waiting on the mail for parts. Among other things a bigger PSU for the 
rock64. See if that reduces the video glitches from usb activity.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>


From eryksun at gmail.com  Tue Aug 30 17:06:32 2022
From: eryksun at gmail.com (Eryk Sun)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 16:06:32 -0500
Subject: Download Python 3.10.6 for windows
In-Reply-To: <CAMDdFmGFoyUwrdrpfsDKs_NMf9SxhwW+JAbJA+akhjV8G8OXsg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMDdFmGFoyUwrdrpfsDKs_NMf9SxhwW+JAbJA+akhjV8G8OXsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1as3WeG+vZ2_WOY7n8gHFpdZEujtav0CdxUY1zxTdw=n8w@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/30/22, George Rwaga <g.rwaga at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 1. I installed Python 3.10.6 in the default directory
> C:\Users\xxxxx.xxxxx\AppData\local\programs\Python\Python310
> After the installation, there was no shortcut on my desktop.

Shortcuts are created in the start menu. The installer doesn't modify
the user's desktop or the desktop of all users, which many users don't
want and would find annoying. Just copy the shortcuts from the start
menu to the desktop if that's what you want. Right-click the icon in
the start menu and choose to open the location. You can copy shortcuts
from the opened Explorer window.

> 2. I then decided to install Python3.10.6 in a customized directory
> C:\program files\Python\Python310
> I am being asked to verify access to this directly. I went to properties,
> made what I thought were the relevant changes. But I keep getting asked to
> verify access.

Installing to "Program Files" requires elevating to get administrator
access. All users have the right to read and execute files in a
directory created in "Program Files", but adding, removing, or
deleting files and directories requires administrator access, as it
should.

From PythonList at DancesWithMice.info  Tue Aug 30 17:52:03 2022
From: PythonList at DancesWithMice.info (dn)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 09:52:03 +1200
Subject: How to make a variable's late binding crosses the module boundary?
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR14MB2854028E175713842CA82EBDF5799@BYAPR14MB2854.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <06fa821a-2c33-49a2-81e3-6f76dd0a7317n@googlegroups.com>
 <a05247e6-79f8-aa69-473f-efc78a323822@Damon-Family.org>
 <tecvul$926$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.357.1661741205.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <CAPTjJmo0EG20SeTu-nR5unqvrauR-Ora+Yiwa_2EPM=0-2nLdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1e81aff1-d1e4-48e0-9b48-bc2fcebe38dfn@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.358.1661752715.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <db1bb483-b1df-462b-81a8-2f9233b0d0abn@googlegroups.com>
 <tei531$b6h$1@gioia.aioe.org> <20220829184512.ecfifxamjnqxmipz@hjp.at>
 <4dd1b949-cdd2-5b27-79ee-5f49fb26ea09@DancesWithMice.info>
 <mailman.373.1661832355.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <module-20220830060757@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <BYAPR14MB2854028E175713842CA82EBDF5799@BYAPR14MB2854.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <a641e14b-1525-0838-ec68-5f3defc7eab6@DancesWithMice.info>

On 31/08/2022 05.26, Schachner, Joseph (US) wrote:
> The way we do this, is in main.py, call a "globalizer" function in each other file:
> 
>     # call globalizers to get shortcuts as global variables
>     funcs.globalizer(interface, variable_dict)
>     util.globalizer(interface, variable_dict)
>     sd.globalizer(interface, variable_dict)
>     tests.globalizer(interface, variable_dict)
>     ut.globalizer(interface, variable_dict)
> 
> Obviously, you may not need a shared interface in which case you can just pass the variable dictionary.
> 
> In each file, you have a function:
> def globalizer(interface, variables_dict):
>     # create global variables for this .py file for shared interface and the variables
>     ....
> 
> This works well, making sure separate python files shared exactly the same things we want to be global.
> 
> ---- Joseph S.
> 
> Teledyne Confidential; Commercially Sensitive Business Data
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefan Ram <ram at zedat.fu-berlin.de> 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2022 1:09 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: How to make a variable's late binding crosses the module boundary?
> 
> dn <PythonList at DancesWithMice.info> writes:
>> Build module.py as:
>> ***
>> CONSTANT = 1
> 
>> def func():
>>    pass
>> ***
> 
>> then in the terminal:
>> ***
>> Python 3.9.13 (main, May 18 2022, 00:00:00) [GCC 11.3.1 20220421 (Red 
>> Hat 11.3.1-2)] on linux Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or 
>> "license" for more information.
>>>>> from module import func as f
> 
>   In CPython one then can also:
> 
> print( f.__globals__[ "CONSTANT" ])
> import sys
> module = sys.modules[ f.__globals__[ "__name__" ]] print( module.CONSTANT ) CONSTANT = module.CONSTANT print( CONSTANT )


The conversation seems to be wandering some way from the OP. Whereas
both of these answers are clever (and I assume work), the question
becomes: why would you want to do this? (especially as it looks ugly and
'smells' a bit convoluted). An example use-case from your experience?


Delving into the list-archive, to get back to the OP: the first message
in the thread quotes another message that's (apparently) not present.

However, in there somewhere is:

> from test import *

So, the elephant-in-the-room has always been a very stinky 'code-smell'
- which pretty much every text or web-tutorial will say is a bad idea.

Why is a bad idea?
Why is it there then?
When to use it?
[Socratic questioning]

Same question, but the other way around: why has Python been equipped
with modules, classes, functions, etc? To quote The Zen of Python:
"Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!".
Programming paradigms and architectural principles all contain reference
and recommendation to independent code-units, coupling and cohesion,
boundary crossing and interfaces (etc). Python doesn't enact a formal
interface construct (thank you great, high, Python, gods!), but that
doesn't remove the issues behind them (as the OP-code demonstrates).
Instead it requires a Python-idiomatic approach.

Should the question be: "how to I smash two namespaces into one and have
it work 'my way'?", or should the question become "how does Python
enable passing/retention of values between namespaces?".

NB The OP likely reduced the 'problem' to 'minimum-code' for the benefit
of the list, but what is the motivation behind it? Why would one want to
be able to do this? Rationale? Use-case?

Enquiring minds and all that...
-- 
Regards,
=dn

From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Aug 30 16:07:25 2022
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 16:07:25 -0400
Subject: venv questions
References: <fdedd484-da4d-5663-26f1-3ef6019d94a2@shentel.net>
 <mailman.370.1661828276.20444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hersghpal1rtvvht36rvktulpb6vcn1bud@4ax.com>

On Mon, 29 Aug 2022 22:57:50 -0400, gene heskett <gheskett at shentel.net>
declaimed the following:

>Greetings all;
>
>The command to setup a venv, "python -m venv venv" has no man page that 
>I have
>found.
>

https://docs.python.org/3/library/venv.html



-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
	wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

From antoon.pardon at vub.be  Wed Aug 31 03:38:19 2022
From: antoon.pardon at vub.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 09:38:19 +0200
Subject: How to make a variable's late binding crosses the module boundary?
In-Reply-To: <a641e14b-1525-0838-ec68-5f3defc7eab6@DancesWithMice.info>
References: <06fa821a-2c33-49a2-81e3-6f76dd0a7317n@googlegroups.com>
 <a05247e6-79f8-aa69-473f-efc78a323822@Damon-Family.org>
 <tecvul$926$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.357.1661741205.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <CAPTjJmo0EG20SeTu-nR5unqvrauR-Ora+Yiwa_2EPM=0-2nLdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1e81aff1-d1e4-48e0-9b48-bc2fcebe38dfn@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.358.1661752715.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <db1bb483-b1df-462b-81a8-2f9233b0d0abn@googlegroups.com>
 <tei531$b6h$1@gioia.aioe.org> <20220829184512.ecfifxamjnqxmipz@hjp.at>
 <4dd1b949-cdd2-5b27-79ee-5f49fb26ea09@DancesWithMice.info>
 <mailman.373.1661832355.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <module-20220830060757@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <BYAPR14MB2854028E175713842CA82EBDF5799@BYAPR14MB2854.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
 <a641e14b-1525-0838-ec68-5f3defc7eab6@DancesWithMice.info>
Message-ID: <e2f2ea14-29f8-0fec-231b-1ce05ae67a3c@vub.be>



Op 30/08/2022 om 23:52 schreef dn:
> The conversation seems to be wandering some way from the OP. Whereas
> both of these answers are clever (and I assume work), the question
> becomes: why would you want to do this? (especially as it looks ugly and
> 'smells' a bit convoluted). An example use-case from your experience?
>
>
> Delving into the list-archive, to get back to the OP: the first message
> in the thread quotes another message that's (apparently) not present.
>
> However, in there somewhere is:
>
>> from test import *
> So, the elephant-in-the-room has always been a very stinky 'code-smell'
> - which pretty much every text or web-tutorial will say is a bad idea.

No that is a red herring. If for some reason a variable in a module has
to be (re)set after import time, it doesn't matter whether someone uses

     from module import *

or

     from module import resetable_variable

in both cases the module that did the import will not notice the change
in the original module.

focussing on the code smell, is leading the attention away from the problem.

-- 
Antoon Pardon

From PythonList at DancesWithMice.info  Wed Aug 31 03:53:49 2022
From: PythonList at DancesWithMice.info (dn)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 19:53:49 +1200
Subject: How to make a variable's late binding crosses the module boundary?
In-Reply-To: <e2f2ea14-29f8-0fec-231b-1ce05ae67a3c@vub.be>
References: <06fa821a-2c33-49a2-81e3-6f76dd0a7317n@googlegroups.com>
 <a05247e6-79f8-aa69-473f-efc78a323822@Damon-Family.org>
 <tecvul$926$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.357.1661741205.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <CAPTjJmo0EG20SeTu-nR5unqvrauR-Ora+Yiwa_2EPM=0-2nLdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1e81aff1-d1e4-48e0-9b48-bc2fcebe38dfn@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.358.1661752715.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <db1bb483-b1df-462b-81a8-2f9233b0d0abn@googlegroups.com>
 <tei531$b6h$1@gioia.aioe.org> <20220829184512.ecfifxamjnqxmipz@hjp.at>
 <4dd1b949-cdd2-5b27-79ee-5f49fb26ea09@DancesWithMice.info>
 <mailman.373.1661832355.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <module-20220830060757@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <BYAPR14MB2854028E175713842CA82EBDF5799@BYAPR14MB2854.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
 <a641e14b-1525-0838-ec68-5f3defc7eab6@DancesWithMice.info>
 <e2f2ea14-29f8-0fec-231b-1ce05ae67a3c@vub.be>
Message-ID: <415b58d8-1994-5dc7-8212-268dc8de2893@DancesWithMice.info>

On 31/08/2022 19.38, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> 
> 
> Op 30/08/2022 om 23:52 schreef dn:
>> The conversation seems to be wandering some way from the OP. Whereas
>> both of these answers are clever (and I assume work), the question
>> becomes: why would you want to do this? (especially as it looks ugly and
>> 'smells' a bit convoluted). An example use-case from your experience?
>>
>>
>> Delving into the list-archive, to get back to the OP: the first message
>> in the thread quotes another message that's (apparently) not present.
>>
>> However, in there somewhere is:
>>
>>> from test import *
>> So, the elephant-in-the-room has always been a very stinky 'code-smell'
>> - which pretty much every text or web-tutorial will say is a bad idea.
> 
> No that is a red herring. If for some reason a variable in a module has
> to be (re)set after import time, it doesn't matter whether someone uses
> 
> ??? from module import *
> 
> or
> 
> ??? from module import resetable_variable
> 
> in both cases the module that did the import will not notice the change
> in the original module.
> 
> focussing on the code smell, is leading the attention away from the
> problem.


Are you the OP?

The behavior has been shown to be exactly that which is (should be)
expected.

-- 
Regards,
=dn

From antoon.pardon at vub.be  Wed Aug 31 04:06:56 2022
From: antoon.pardon at vub.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 10:06:56 +0200
Subject: How to make a variable's late binding crosses the module boundary?
In-Reply-To: <415b58d8-1994-5dc7-8212-268dc8de2893@DancesWithMice.info>
References: <06fa821a-2c33-49a2-81e3-6f76dd0a7317n@googlegroups.com>
 <a05247e6-79f8-aa69-473f-efc78a323822@Damon-Family.org>
 <tecvul$926$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.357.1661741205.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <CAPTjJmo0EG20SeTu-nR5unqvrauR-Ora+Yiwa_2EPM=0-2nLdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1e81aff1-d1e4-48e0-9b48-bc2fcebe38dfn@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.358.1661752715.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <db1bb483-b1df-462b-81a8-2f9233b0d0abn@googlegroups.com>
 <tei531$b6h$1@gioia.aioe.org> <20220829184512.ecfifxamjnqxmipz@hjp.at>
 <4dd1b949-cdd2-5b27-79ee-5f49fb26ea09@DancesWithMice.info>
 <mailman.373.1661832355.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <module-20220830060757@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <BYAPR14MB2854028E175713842CA82EBDF5799@BYAPR14MB2854.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
 <a641e14b-1525-0838-ec68-5f3defc7eab6@DancesWithMice.info>
 <e2f2ea14-29f8-0fec-231b-1ce05ae67a3c@vub.be>
 <415b58d8-1994-5dc7-8212-268dc8de2893@DancesWithMice.info>
Message-ID: <6d2ea0e5-8efe-4fbd-1395-a1d419b2fa79@vub.be>



Op 31/08/2022 om 09:53 schreef dn:
> On 31/08/2022 19.38, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>
>> Op 30/08/2022 om 23:52 schreef dn:
>>> The conversation seems to be wandering some way from the OP. Whereas
>>> both of these answers are clever (and I assume work), the question
>>> becomes: why would you want to do this? (especially as it looks ugly and
>>> 'smells' a bit convoluted). An example use-case from your experience?
>>>
>>>
>>> Delving into the list-archive, to get back to the OP: the first message
>>> in the thread quotes another message that's (apparently) not present.
>>>
>>> However, in there somewhere is:
>>>
>>>> from test import *
>>> So, the elephant-in-the-room has always been a very stinky 'code-smell'
>>> - which pretty much every text or web-tutorial will say is a bad idea.
>> No that is a red herring. If for some reason a variable in a module has
>> to be (re)set after import time, it doesn't matter whether someone uses
>>
>>  ??? from module import *
>>
>> or
>>
>>  ??? from module import resetable_variable
>>
>> in both cases the module that did the import will not notice the change
>> in the original module.
>>
>> focussing on the code smell, is leading the attention away from the
>> problem.
> Are you the OP?
>
> The behavior has been shown to be exactly that which is (should be)
> expected.

That doesn't contradict that the behaviour is a problem. What is expected
(viewed as a language specification) and what is desired (viewed from what
would solve the problem easily) can be at odds.

-- 
Antoon Pardon.


From g.rwaga at gmail.com  Wed Aug 31 13:16:11 2022
From: g.rwaga at gmail.com (George Rwaga)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 12:16:11 -0500
Subject: Download Python 3.10.6 for windows
In-Reply-To: <CACL+1as3WeG+vZ2_WOY7n8gHFpdZEujtav0CdxUY1zxTdw=n8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMDdFmGFoyUwrdrpfsDKs_NMf9SxhwW+JAbJA+akhjV8G8OXsg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1as3WeG+vZ2_WOY7n8gHFpdZEujtav0CdxUY1zxTdw=n8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMDdFmHeps+3+p2MwKXWgDuKTctefWgpd6G9Pj40ti_9yx7LXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the suggestions, Mrab and Eryk.

Because my R and RStudio are under program files, for consistency I
installed Python in C:\program files\Python\Python310. I updated to the
latest version of Spyder in C:\program files\Spyder\Spyder5.3.3. As with R
and RStudio, some Python and Spyder files were automatically installed in
C:\Users\George.Rwaga\AppData\Local. I am not sure why the default for
installing Python
is C:\Users\xxxxx.xxxxx\AppData\local\programs\Python\Python310.

Initial tests suggest Spyder 5.3.3 is working fine. The real test will
probably come when I try to run some of my old code based on such sources
as Python for Finance by Yves Hilpisch, a book by the same title by Yuxing
Yan, Python for Data Analysis by Wes McKinney, etc.

Again, thanks.

George
--


On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 4:06 PM Eryk Sun <eryksun at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 8/30/22, George Rwaga <g.rwaga at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > 1. I installed Python 3.10.6 in the default directory
> > C:\Users\xxxxx.xxxxx\AppData\local\programs\Python\Python310
> > After the installation, there was no shortcut on my desktop.
>
> Shortcuts are created in the start menu. The installer doesn't modify
> the user's desktop or the desktop of all users, which many users don't
> want and would find annoying. Just copy the shortcuts from the start
> menu to the desktop if that's what you want. Right-click the icon in
> the start menu and choose to open the location. You can copy shortcuts
> from the opened Explorer window.
>
> > 2. I then decided to install Python3.10.6 in a customized directory
> > C:\program files\Python\Python310
> > I am being asked to verify access to this directly. I went to properties,
> > made what I thought were the relevant changes. But I keep getting asked
> to
> > verify access.
>
> Installing to "Program Files" requires elevating to get administrator
> access. All users have the right to read and execute files in a
> directory created in "Program Files", but adding, removing, or
> deleting files and directories requires administrator access, as it
> should.
>

From mmontgomery at levado.to  Wed Aug 31 09:34:32 2022
From: mmontgomery at levado.to (Meredith Montgomery)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 10:34:32 -0300
Subject: Coffee
References: <Coffee-20220829131259@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <telf2v$1h3k8$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <86h71szgd3.fsf@levado.to>

"Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper at gmail.com> writes:

> On 29/08/2022 07.16, Stefan Ram wrote:
>> |Python's obviously a great tool for all kinds of programming things,
>> |and I would say if you're only gonna use one programming
>> |language in your live, Python will probably the right one.
>> Brian Kernighan
>>    I transcribed this from the recent video
>>    "Coffee with Brian Kernighan".
>
> For those who'd like to see the whole chat:
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNyQxXw_oMQ>

So kind of you!  Thank you!

From mmontgomery at levado.to  Wed Aug 31 09:40:13 2022
From: mmontgomery at levado.to (Meredith Montgomery)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 10:40:13 -0300
Subject: on GNU EMACS's python-mode, loading entire buffer
References: <86y1v6zzf3.fsf@levado.to>
Message-ID: <868rn4zg3m.fsf@levado.to>

Meredith Montgomery <mmontgomery at levado.to> writes:

[...]

> I would also be interested in a command that restarts the REPL afresh
> and reloads my buffer --- sort of like keyboard's [F5] of the IDLE.

A partial solution for this is the following procedure.

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(defun python-revert-and-send-buffer-to-repl ()
  "Revert current buffer and sends it to the Python REPL."
  (interactive)
  (revert-buffer "ignore-auto-no" "no-confirm")
  (python-shell-send-buffer))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

We can map this to the F5-key and that improves things.  But a restart
of the REPL would be the ideal.  (Sometimes we really want to start
afresh.  Sometimes.  Most often we don't want that.)

From nntp.mbourne at spamgourmet.com  Wed Aug 31 14:43:09 2022
From: nntp.mbourne at spamgourmet.com (Mark Bourne)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 19:43:09 +0100
Subject: How to make a variable's late binding crosses the module boundary?
References: <06fa821a-2c33-49a2-81e3-6f76dd0a7317n@googlegroups.com>
 <a05247e6-79f8-aa69-473f-efc78a323822@Damon-Family.org>
 <tecvul$926$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.357.1661741205.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <CAPTjJmo0EG20SeTu-nR5unqvrauR-Ora+Yiwa_2EPM=0-2nLdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1e81aff1-d1e4-48e0-9b48-bc2fcebe38dfn@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.358.1661752715.20444.python-list@python.org>
 <db1bb483-b1df-462b-81a8-2f9233b0d0abn@googlegroups.com>
 <tei531$b6h$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <6db8e7db-b3b9-46b9-a9c7-4cc608bc56een@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <teoa3u$1l6j$1@gioia.aioe.org>

Jach Feng wrote:
> Mark Bourne ? 2022?8?29? ?????6:40:59 [UTC+8] ??????
>> Jach Feng wrote:
>>> Chris Angelico ? 2022?8?29? ?????1:58:58 [UTC+8] ??????
>>>> On Mon, 29 Aug 2022 at 15:54, Jach Feng <jf... at ms4.hinet.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard Damon ? 2022?8?29? ?????10:47:08 [UTC+8] ??????
>>>>>> On 8/27/22 7:42 AM, Mark Bourne wrote:
>>>>>>> Jach Feng wrote:
>>>>>>>> I have two files: test.py and test2.py
>>>>>>>> --test.py--
>>>>>>>> x = 2
>>>>>>>> def foo():
>>>>>>>> print(x)
>>>>>>>> foo()
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> x = 3
>>>>>>>> foo()
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --test2.py--
>>>>>>>> from test import *
>>>>>>>> x = 4
>>>>>>>> foo()
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>>> Run test.py under Winows8.1, I get the expected result:
>>>>>>>> e:\MyDocument>py test.py
>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But when run test2.py, the result is not my expected 2,3,4:-(
>>>>>>>> e:\MyDocument>py test2.py
>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What to do?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> `from test import *` does not link the names in `test2` to those in
>>>>>>> `test`. It just binds objects bound to names in `test` to the same
>>>>>>> names in `test2`. A bit like doing:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> import test
>>>>>>> x = test.x
>>>>>>> foo = test.foo
>>>>>>> del test
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subsequently assigning a different object to `x` in one module does
>>>>>>> not affect the object assigned to `x` in the other module. So `x = 4`
>>>>>>> in `test2.py` does not affect the object assigned to `x` in `test.py`
>>>>>>> - that's still `3`. If you want to do that, you need to import `test`
>>>>>>> and assign to `test.x`, for example:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> import test
>>>>>>> test.x = 4
>>>>>>> test.foo()
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, fundamental issue is that the statement
>>>>>>
>>>>>> from x import y
>>>>>>
>>>>>> makes a binding in this module to the object CURRECTLY bound to x.y to
>>>>>> the name y, but if x.y gets rebound, this module does not track the changes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can mutate the object x.y and see the changes, but not rebind it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you need to see rebindings, you can't use the "from x import y" form,
>>>>>> or at a minimum do it as:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> import x
>>>>>>
>>>>>> from x import y
>>>>>>
>>>>>> then later to get rebindings to x.y do a
>>>>>>
>>>>>> y = x.y
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to rebind to the current x.y object.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Richard Damon
>>>>> Yes, an extra "import x" will solve my problem too! Sometimes I am wondering why "from x import y" hides x? hum...can't figure out the reason:-)
>>>>>
>>>> "from x import y" doesn't hide x - it just grabs y. Python does what
>>>> you tell it to. :)
>>>>
>>>> ChrisA
>>> But I had heard people say that "from x import y" did import the whole x module into memory, just as "import x" did, not "grabs y" only. Is this correct?
>> `from x import y` does import the whole module x into memory, and adds
>> it to `sys.modules`. But it only binds the name `y` in the namespace of
>> module doing the import (and it binds it to the value of `x.y` at the
>> time the import is done - it doesn't magically keep them in sync if one
>> or the other is later reassigned).
>>
>> The point about the whole module being imported is that you don't save
>> any memory by using `from x import y` to avoid importing some very large
>> object `z` from `x`. Those other large objects might be needed by
>> functions which have been imported (e.g. your `foo` function still needs
>> `x` even if you haven't imported `x` - so it still needs to be loaded
>> into memory) or might be imported and used by other modules importing
>> `x`, so they still have to be loaded when any part of `x` is imported -
>> they just don't have to be bound to names in the importing module's
>> namespace.
>>
>> As Richard mentioned, if `x.y` is a mutable object (such as a list) you
>> can still mutate that object (e.g. add/remove items) and those changes
>> will be seen in both modules. That's because both are still bound to
>> the same object and you're mutating that existing object. If you assign
>> a new list to either, that won't be seen by the other.
>>
>> -- 
>> Mark.
> When using dot notation to change variable, no matter if 'x.y' is a mutable or immutable object, the change
> will be seen in both modules except those early bindings.
> 
> --Jach

Yes, sorry, I'd used `x.y` as a way of referring to the variable `y` in 
module `x` as opposed to `y` in the current module.  It doesn't help 
that I added the second paragraph and didn't notice that the third was 
then out of context.

If you use `import x` and assign to `x.y`, that will as you say be seen 
in both modules.  On the other hand, if you use `from x import y`, then 
(as has been discussed) assigning to `y` in the module which has the 
import won't affect the value seen in module `x`.  However, if `y` is 
mutable (e.g. a list), and no new object is assigned to it, then `y` 
still points to the same object in both modules, so mutating that 
existing object (e.g. `y.append(123)`) *will* affect what's seen in both 
modules - they're both referencing the same object, and you've modified 
that object, as opposed to assigning a new object to `y` in one of the 
modules.

-- 
Mark.

From eryksun at gmail.com  Wed Aug 31 18:15:57 2022
From: eryksun at gmail.com (Eryk Sun)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 17:15:57 -0500
Subject: Download Python 3.10.6 for windows
In-Reply-To: <CAMDdFmHeps+3+p2MwKXWgDuKTctefWgpd6G9Pj40ti_9yx7LXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMDdFmGFoyUwrdrpfsDKs_NMf9SxhwW+JAbJA+akhjV8G8OXsg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1as3WeG+vZ2_WOY7n8gHFpdZEujtav0CdxUY1zxTdw=n8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMDdFmHeps+3+p2MwKXWgDuKTctefWgpd6G9Pj40ti_9yx7LXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1asgJCKnOKKxojidBMVCr4kRq7ca6O2a5OnimsjuZdm8fQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/31/22, George Rwaga <g.rwaga at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am not sure why the default for installing Python is
> C:\Users\xxxxx.xxxxx\AppData\local\programs\Python\Python310.

The "programs" folder in the above path is the default location to
install programs just for user "xxxxx.xxxxx." More precisely, the
default location is "%LOCALAPPDATA%\Programs". A user can easily
change this path to a custom location in Explorer, so one shouldn't
rely on the default value in general. Instead, use the shell protocol
path, shell:userprogramfiles. You can use the latter directly in
Explorer, such as the Win+R dialog. From the command line in CMD or
PowerShell, use the `start` command. For example:

    >start shell:userprogramfiles

Python's installer defaults to the user program files directory when
installing just for the current user. When the setup is changed to
install for all users, it automatically switches to using
"%ProgramFiles%" or "%ProgramFiles(x86)%" (e.g. "C:\Program Files").
It will try to elevate to get administrator access when installing for
all users.

From jfong at ms4.hinet.net  Wed Aug 31 21:53:55 2022
From: jfong at ms4.hinet.net (Jach Feng)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 18:53:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to make a variable's late binding crosses the module boundary?
In-Reply-To: <teoa3u$1l6j$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <06fa821a-2c33-49a2-81e3-6f76dd0a7317n@googlegroups.com>
 <a05247e6-79f8-aa69-473f-efc78a323822@Damon-Family.org>
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Mark Bourne ? 2022?9?1? ?????2:43:40 [UTC+8] ??????
> Jach Feng wrote: 
> > Mark Bourne ? 2022?8?29? ?????6:40:59 [UTC+8] ?????? 
> >> Jach Feng wrote: 
> >>> Chris Angelico ? 2022?8?29? ?????1:58:58 [UTC+8] ?????? 
> >>>> On Mon, 29 Aug 2022 at 15:54, Jach Feng <jf... at ms4.hinet.net> wrote: 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Richard Damon ? 2022?8?29? ?????10:47:08 [UTC+8] ?????? 
> >>>>>> On 8/27/22 7:42 AM, Mark Bourne wrote: 
> >>>>>>> Jach Feng wrote: 
> >>>>>>>> I have two files: test.py and test2.py 
> >>>>>>>> --test.py-- 
> >>>>>>>> x = 2 
> >>>>>>>> def foo(): 
> >>>>>>>> print(x) 
> >>>>>>>> foo() 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> x = 3 
> >>>>>>>> foo() 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> --test2.py-- 
> >>>>>>>> from test import * 
> >>>>>>>> x = 4 
> >>>>>>>> foo() 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> ----- 
> >>>>>>>> Run test.py under Winows8.1, I get the expected result: 
> >>>>>>>> e:\MyDocument>py test.py 
> >>>>>>>> 2 
> >>>>>>>> 3 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> But when run test2.py, the result is not my expected 2,3,4:-( 
> >>>>>>>> e:\MyDocument>py test2.py 
> >>>>>>>> 2 
> >>>>>>>> 3 
> >>>>>>>> 3 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> What to do? 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> `from test import *` does not link the names in `test2` to those in 
> >>>>>>> `test`. It just binds objects bound to names in `test` to the same 
> >>>>>>> names in `test2`. A bit like doing: 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> import test 
> >>>>>>> x = test.x 
> >>>>>>> foo = test.foo 
> >>>>>>> del test 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Subsequently assigning a different object to `x` in one module does 
> >>>>>>> not affect the object assigned to `x` in the other module. So `x = 4` 
> >>>>>>> in `test2.py` does not affect the object assigned to `x` in `test.py` 
> >>>>>>> - that's still `3`. If you want to do that, you need to import `test` 
> >>>>>>> and assign to `test.x`, for example: 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> import test 
> >>>>>>> test.x = 4 
> >>>>>>> test.foo() 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Yes, fundamental issue is that the statement 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> from x import y 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> makes a binding in this module to the object CURRECTLY bound to x.y to 
> >>>>>> the name y, but if x.y gets rebound, this module does not track the changes. 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> You can mutate the object x.y and see the changes, but not rebind it. 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> If you need to see rebindings, you can't use the "from x import y" form, 
> >>>>>> or at a minimum do it as: 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> import x 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> from x import y 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> then later to get rebindings to x.y do a 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> y = x.y 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> to rebind to the current x.y object. 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> -- 
> >>>>>> Richard Damon 
> >>>>> Yes, an extra "import x" will solve my problem too! Sometimes I am wondering why "from x import y" hides x? hum...can't figure out the reason:-) 
> >>>>> 
> >>>> "from x import y" doesn't hide x - it just grabs y. Python does what 
> >>>> you tell it to. :) 
> >>>> 
> >>>> ChrisA 
> >>> But I had heard people say that "from x import y" did import the whole x module into memory, just as "import x" did, not "grabs y" only. Is this correct? 
> >> `from x import y` does import the whole module x into memory, and adds 
> >> it to `sys.modules`. But it only binds the name `y` in the namespace of 
> >> module doing the import (and it binds it to the value of `x.y` at the 
> >> time the import is done - it doesn't magically keep them in sync if one 
> >> or the other is later reassigned). 
> >> 
> >> The point about the whole module being imported is that you don't save 
> >> any memory by using `from x import y` to avoid importing some very large 
> >> object `z` from `x`. Those other large objects might be needed by 
> >> functions which have been imported (e.g. your `foo` function still needs 
> >> `x` even if you haven't imported `x` - so it still needs to be loaded 
> >> into memory) or might be imported and used by other modules importing 
> >> `x`, so they still have to be loaded when any part of `x` is imported - 
> >> they just don't have to be bound to names in the importing module's 
> >> namespace. 
> >> 
> >> As Richard mentioned, if `x.y` is a mutable object (such as a list) you 
> >> can still mutate that object (e.g. add/remove items) and those changes 
> >> will be seen in both modules. That's because both are still bound to 
> >> the same object and you're mutating that existing object. If you assign 
> >> a new list to either, that won't be seen by the other. 
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> Mark. 
> > When using dot notation to change variable, no matter if 'x.y' is a mutable or immutable object, the change 
> > will be seen in both modules except those early bindings. 
> > 
> > --Jach
> Yes, sorry, I'd used `x.y` as a way of referring to the variable `y` in 
> module `x` as opposed to `y` in the current module. It doesn't help 
> that I added the second paragraph and didn't notice that the third was 
> then out of context. 
> 
> If you use `import x` and assign to `x.y`, that will as you say be seen 
> in both modules. On the other hand, if you use `from x import y`, then 
> (as has been discussed) assigning to `y` in the module which has the 
> import won't affect the value seen in module `x`. However, if `y` is 
> mutable (e.g. a list), and no new object is assigned to it, then `y` 
> still points to the same object in both modules, so mutating that 
> existing object (e.g. `y.append(123)`) *will* affect what's seen in both 
> modules - they're both referencing the same object, and you've modified 
> that object, as opposed to assigning a new object to `y` in one of the 
> modules. 
> 
> -- 
> Mark.
Good Point! I learn from it:-)

I found that using "from test import *" in test2.py makes test2's relation to "test" almost like the function's relation to the module where it is defined. You can refer to all the variables of the module, even modify the mutable objects, but just can't change them. The only way to change it is to declare it a "global." The same situation is in Test 2, but unfortunately there is no "super-global" to declare. The only way to make changes is to "import test" (again? it looks like a redundant  statement to me:-) and use dot notation to do it.

--Jach