syntax difference

[boB Stepp]

On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 5:21 AM Bart <bc at freeuk.com> wrote:
>
> On 24/06/2018 00:44, boB Stepp wrote:
> > On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 5:35 PM Bart <bc at freeuk.com> wrote:
>
> >> I'm not a user...
> >
> > Then I am truly puzzled, Bart.  Why do you even bother to hang out on
> > this list?  If you do not want to use Python and you do not want to
> > improve Python's design and implementation, what is your point of
> > being here?
>
> I wonder why it is just me that constantly needs to justify his
> existence in this group?

You snipped the unpleasant part of my paragraph:
"... You *do* seem to generate a lot of ill will, I hope
unintentionally..."

> Does someone need to be that much of a user of a language in order
> to discuss its design or its features or its efficiency, or how it
> compares with any other? You can do that from without as well as
> from within.

I don't dispute this.  But there are good ways to do this and there
are bad ways to do this.  You seem to fall into the latter category
enough that at a minimum you irritate people who care very deeply
about Python, and, at worst, outright enrage some.

<snip>

> As for why Python, it's the dynamic language I'm most familiar
> with, and I've been following it since the 1990s.

And this gets to the crux of the matter.  If this is so, why is it
that you repeatedly demonstrate a lack of understanding of the very
things you are critiquing?  I cannot recall how many times you have
been called out on this point, but it is certainly not an uncommon
event.  It is one thing to have demonstrable technical understanding
of one or more concepts, and critique those concepts with valid, or at
least, interesting points, but it is entirely another thing to be
criticizing (How you are often perceived.) something in Python while
at the same time demonstrating you don't really understand the
particular Pythonic implementation or usage you are criticizing.
Don't you see the difference?  Don't you see what it is that so riles
people?  But things do not have to be this way!  As I said later in my
paragraph I have been referencing:

"... But why not take a different, more helpful tack?
You seem to have a lot of ideas.  If you really think they are
applicable to improving the Python language, why not take your ideas,
one at a time, and have serious discussion, perhaps better on
Python-Ideas, on how Python can be meaningfully made better?  That
would be a helpful approach which I think, if done with the intention
of helping Python to be the best language it can be (Within the
constraints it has to operate within in practice.), then I would hope
your potential contributions would be positively received by the
community..."

And:

"... And of course, you would have to know how to use Python properly in
idiomatic style.  Why not choose this positive approach?  I think it
would be a win-win for both you and Python."

Just show you genuinely care about the language and the community.
Use and understand the language as well as you can before jumping into
criticisms.  Adopt the path of the humble learner, who does not know
everything about Python.  Is this too much to ask?



-- 
boB