Simple graphic library for beginners

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 12:14:03 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 11:57 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
[...]
>> Recent Pythons include "ensure pip" by default, which is a private
>> version of pip which is intended to do nothing but install the latest
>> version of pip.
> 
> True, but a fresh installation on Windows is supposed to let you just
> leave the box ticked and it runs ensurepip so you have pip.

Ah, didn't know that. Thanks.


[...]
>> How do you know which version of Python `pip install foo` will use? How
>> do I choose the version pip will install into? [not rhetorical
>> questions] Don't say "use venv", because using a virtual environment
>> shouldn't be a prerequisite for using pip.
> 
> The recommendation was already given to use "python3 -m pip". That gets
> around those problems.

If you google for installation instructions, they're nearly always given 
in terms of "use pip", not "use python3.4 -m pip".

My point isn't that there is *no* solution to this problem, but that its 
not necessarily an *obvious* solution.


[...]
>> How do I deal with permissions errors? [semi-rhetorical question -- I
>> know *an* answer, but I don't know if it is the *right* answer]
> 
> That's a fair point, but a perms error is reported properly by pip.

Is it? Last time I tried, I just got an uninformative error that the 
package installation failed. Admittedly that was probably a year or two 
ago, so maybe the error message has been improved.


> How
> do you deal with it? First you recognize that there's a problem. Nothing
> in this thread suggested that there were perms problems to deal with.

Indeed. For somebody who claims to be such an experienced developer, Bart 
is sure dedicated to the ideas that:

1. you ought to be able to install software without knowing anything at 
all about the operating system, the software being installed, or the 
installer.

2. If you run into an installation problem, it means the programming 
language sucks, not that you've done something wrong.

3. And you absolutely *shouldn't* ask for help or give sufficient details 
of what went wrong to allow others to diagnose the fault. Instead you 
should just *hint* at the error and make it out to be a systematic 
problem with the language itself.



"Make it easy to install it" -- I'm 100% in agreement with that.

"A literal brain-damaged monkey in a coma should be able to install it" 
-- not so much.



-- 
Steve