From frank at chagford.com  Wed Mar  1 00:39:19 2017
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2017 07:39:19 +0200
Subject: asyncio does not always show the full traceback
In-Reply-To: <72209011-db09-4ba2-9c5b-f576a30e2d09@googlegroups.com>
References: <o93vs2$smi$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.94.1488290520.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <72209011-db09-4ba2-9c5b-f576a30e2d09@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <o95mq4$h99$1@blaine.gmane.org>

John Ladasky wrote in message 
news:72209011-db09-4ba2-9c5b-f576a30e2d09 at googlegroups.com...

> > Does anyone know what I must change to get the full traceback?
>
> Three years ago, I had a similar issue with incomplete tracebacks while 
> using multiprocessing.Pool.  The discussion is here:
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.lang.python/qKTNNt8uKKU/biNyslh19ncJ;context-place=msg/comp.lang.python/qKTNNt8uKKU/c6K8kVdfTw4J
>
> Other, better Python programmers than myself were treating this as a bug 
> that needed to be fixed, and were doing so for Python 3.4.  The linked 
> discussion contains a link to the developers' bug reports.  It appears 
> that the bug was addressed, but I don't know if it was backported to every 
> version of Python.  What version of Python are you using?

I am using 3.6, so maybe it is a different issue, or maybe a similar one but 
the fix was not applied to the asyncio module.

I will study the thread you quoted, and report back.

Thanks

Frank





From dieter at handshake.de  Wed Mar  1 01:28:29 2017
From: dieter at handshake.de (dieter)
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2017 07:28:29 +0100
Subject: asyncio does not always show the full traceback
References: <o93vs2$smi$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <87fuix33zm.fsf@handshake.de>

"Frank Millman" <frank at chagford.com> writes:
> I use asyncio in my project, so most of my functions start with
> 'async' and most of my calls are preceded by 'await'.
>
> If an exception is raised, I usually get the full traceback, but
> sometimes I just get something like the following -
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "C:\Users\User\aib\aib\test_data.py", line 645, in <module>
>    loop.run_until_complete(main(company))
>  File
> "C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python36\lib\asyncio\base_events.py",
> line 466, in run_until_complete
>    return future.result()
> ValueError: not enough values to unpack (expected 2, got 1)
>
> It does not show the line where the ValueError occurs, and I have not
> managed to narrow down exactly when this happens.

Not sure whether this applies to your case: things like your observation
are common when C level code is involved. C level code does not
have line numbers (Python knows about). Therefore, you get the exception
but the traceback only covers the Python code path.



From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Wed Mar  1 01:41:34 2017
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 22:41:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to flatten only one sub list of list of lists
Message-ID: <2c513652-c365-4a92-b204-d986fa41b7a0@googlegroups.com>

How can I flatten just a specific sublist of each list in a list of lists?

So if I had this data


[   ['46295', 'Montauk', '3', '60', '85', ['19', '5', '1', '0 $277790.00']],
    ['46295', 'Dark Eyes', '5', '59', '83', ['6', '4', '1', '0 $105625.00']],
    ['46295', 'Machinegun Jubs', '6', '53', '77', ['6', '2', '1', '1 $71685.00']],
    ['46295', 'Zara Bay', '1', '53', '77', ['12', '2', '3', '3 $112645.00']]]


How can I make it be


[   ['46295', 'Montauk', '3', '60', '85', '19', '5', '1', '0 $277790.00'],
    ['46295', 'Dark Eyes', '5', '59', '83', '6', '4', '1', '0 $105625.00'],
    ['46295', 'Machinegun Jubs', '6', '53', '77', '6', '2', '1', '1 $71685.00'],
    ['46295', 'Zara Bay', '1', '53', '77', '12', '2', '3', '3 $112645.00']]

Been looking around but most solutions just entirely flatten everything.
This was popular on SO but yeah it flattens everything  I want to be more selective

def flatten(lst):
    for elem in lst:
        if type(elem) in (tuple, list):
            for i in flatten(elem):
                yield i
        else:
            yield elem

What I am thinking is that if for each list the sublist should be at index 1, so

[0][1]
[1][1]
[2][1]

for item in list:
    item[1] - somehow flatten.

Thoughts?

Sayth


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Mar  1 01:43:23 2017
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 22:43:23 -0800
Subject: [ANN] Aenum 2.0
Message-ID: <58B66D8B.6050000@stoneleaf.us>

For those following the latest Python releases you may have noticed that Python 3.6 Enum got two new types:

- Flag
- IntFlag

Those classes have now been added to aenum (along with a bunch of bug fixes).  aenum is available at:

   https://pypi.python.org/pypi/aenum

Besides the four Enum types from the stdlib (Enum, IntEnum, Flag, IntFlag), there is also a class-based NamedTuple and a 
NamedConstant (when you want named constants but don't need an Enum).

The README is included below.

-----------------------------

aenum --- support for advanced enumerations, namedtuples, and constants
===========================================================================

Advanced Enumerations (compatible with Python's stdlib Enum), NamedTuples,
and NamedConstants

aenum includes a Python stdlib Enum-compatible data type, as well as a
metaclass-based NamedTuple implementation and a NamedConstant class.

An Enum is a set of symbolic names (members) bound to unique, constant
values. Within an enumeration, the members can be compared by identity, and
the enumeration itself can be iterated over.  If using Python 3 there is
built-in support for unique values, multiple values, auto-numbering, and
suspension of aliasing (members with the same value are not identical), plus
the ability to have values automatically bound to attributes.

A NamedTuple is a class-based, fixed-length tuple with a name for each
possible position accessible using attribute-access notation as well as the
standard index notation.

A NamedConstant is a class whose members cannot be rebound; it lacks all other
Enum capabilities, however; consequently, it can have duplicate values.


Module Contents
---------------

``NamedTuple``
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Base class for ``creating NamedTuples``, either by subclassing or via it's
    functional API.

``NamedConstant``
^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Constant class for creating groups of constants.  These names cannot be rebound
    to other values.

``Enum``
^^^^^^^^
    Base class for creating enumerated constants.  See section ``Enum Functional API``
    for an alternate construction syntax.

``IntEnum``
^^^^^^^^^^^
    Base class for creating enumerated constants that are also subclasses of ``int``.

``AutoNumberEnum``
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Derived class that automatically assigns an ``int`` value to each member.

``OrderedEnum``
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Derived class that adds ``<``, ``<=``, ``>=``, and ``>`` methods to an ``Enum``.

``UniqueEnum``
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Derived class that ensures only one name is bound to any one value.

``IntFlag``
^^^^^^^^^^^
    Base class for creating enumerated constants that can be combined using
    the bitwise operators without losing their ``IntFlag`` membership.
    ``IntFlag`` members are also subclasses of ``int``.

``Flag``
^^^^^^^^
    Base class for creating enumerated constants that can be combined using
    the bitwise operations without losing their ``Flag`` membership.

``unique``
^^^^^^^^^^
    Enum class decorator that ensures only one name is bound to any one value.

``constant``
^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Descriptor to add constant values to an ``Enum``

``convert``
^^^^^^^^^^^
    Helper to transform target global variables into an ``Enum``.

``enum``
^^^^^^^^
    Helper for specifying keyword arguments when creating ``Enum`` members.

``export``
^^^^^^^^^^
    Helper for inserting ``Enum`` members into a namespace (usually ``globals()``.

``extend_enum``
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Helper for adding new ``Enum`` members after creation.

``module``
^^^^^^^^^^
    Function to take a ``NamedConstant`` or ``Enum`` class and insert it into
    ``sys.modules`` with the affect of a module whose top-level constant and
    member names cannot be rebound.

``skip``
^^^^^^^^
    Descriptor to add a normal (non-``Enum`` member) attribute to an ``Enum``
    or ``NamedConstant``.


Creating an Enum
----------------

Enumerations can be created using the ``class`` syntax, which makes them
easy to read and write.  To define an enumeration, subclass ``Enum`` as
follows::

     >>> from aenum import Enum
     >>> class Color(Enum):
     ...     RED = 1
     ...     GREEN = 2
     ...     BLUE = 3

The ``Enum`` class is also callable, providing the following functional API::

     >>> Animal = Enum('Animal', 'ANT BEE CAT DOG')
     >>> Animal
     <enum 'Animal'>
     >>> Animal.ANT
     <Animal.ANT: 1>
     >>> Animal.ANT.value
     1
     >>> list(Animal)
     [<Animal.ANT: 1>, <Animal.BEE: 2>, <Animal.CAT: 3>, <Animal.DOG: 4>]

Note that ``Enum`` members are boolean ``True`` unless the ``__nonzero__``
(Python 2) or ``__bool__`` (Python 3) method is overridden to provide
different semantics.


Creating a Flag
---------------

``Flag`` (and ``IntFlag``) has members that can be combined with each other
using the bitwise operators (&, |, ^, ~).  ``IntFlag`` members can be combined
with ``int`` and other ``IntFlag`` members.  While it is possible to specify
the values directly it is recommended to use ``auto`` as the value and let
``(Int)Flag`` select an appropriate value::

     >>> from enum import Flag
     >>> class Color(Flag):
     ...     RED = auto()
     ...     BLUE = auto()
     ...     GREEN = auto()
     ...
     >>> Color.RED & Color.GREEN
     <Color.0: 0>
     >>> bool(Color.RED & Color.GREEN)
     False
     >>> Color.RED | Color.BLUE
     <Color.RED|BLUE: 3>

If you want to name the empty flag, or various combinations of flags, you may::

     >>> class Color(Flag):
     ...     BLACK = 0
     ...     RED = auto()
     ...     BLUE = auto()
     ...     GREEN = auto()
     ...     WHITE = RED | BLUE | GREEN
     ...
     >>> Color.BLACK
     <Color.BLACK: 0>
     >>> Color.WHITE
     <Color.WHITE: 7>

Note that ``(Int)Flag`` zero-value members have the usual boolean value of
``False``.


Creating NamedTuples
--------------------

Simple
^^^^^^

The most common way to create a new NamedTuple will be via the functional API::

     >>> from aenum import NamedTuple
     >>> Book = NamedTuple('Book', 'title author genre', module=__name__)

Advanced
^^^^^^^^

The simple method of creating ``NamedTuples`` requires always specifying all
possible arguments when creating instances; failure to do so will raise
exceptions.

However, it is possible to specify both docstrings and default values when
creating a ``NamedTuple`` using the class method::

     >>> class Point(NamedTuple):
     ...     x = 0, 'horizontal coordinate', 0
     ...     y = 1, 'vertical coordinate', 0
     ...
     >>> Point()
     Point(x=0, y=0)


Creating Constants
------------------

``NamedConstant`` is similar to ``Enum``, but do not support the ``Enum``
protocols, and have no restrictions on duplications::

     >>> class K(NamedConstant):
     ...     PI = 3.141596
     ...     TAU = 2 * PI
     ...
     >>> K.TAU
     6.283192

--
~Ethan~


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Wed Mar  1 02:19:59 2017
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2017 09:19:59 +0200
Subject: How to flatten only one sub list of list of lists
References: <2c513652-c365-4a92-b204-d986fa41b7a0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <lf5poi1wjj4.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Sayth Renshaw writes:

> How can I flatten just a specific sublist of each list in a list of lists?
>
> So if I had this data
>
>
> [   ['46295', 'Montauk', '3', '60', '85', ['19', '5', '1', '0 $277790.00']],
>     ['46295', 'Dark Eyes', '5', '59', '83', ['6', '4', '1', '0 $105625.00']],
>     ['46295', 'Machinegun Jubs', '6', '53', '77', ['6', '2', '1', '1 $71685.00']],
>     ['46295', 'Zara Bay', '1', '53', '77', ['12', '2', '3', '3 $112645.00']]]
>
>
> How can I make it be
>
>
> [   ['46295', 'Montauk', '3', '60', '85', '19', '5', '1', '0 $277790.00'],
>     ['46295', 'Dark Eyes', '5', '59', '83', '6', '4', '1', '0 $105625.00'],
>     ['46295', 'Machinegun Jubs', '6', '53', '77', '6', '2', '1', '1 $71685.00'],
>     ['46295', 'Zara Bay', '1', '53', '77', '12', '2', '3', '3 $112645.00']]

Here's two ways. First makes a copy, second flattens each list in place,
both assume it's the last member (at index -1) of the list that needs
flattening.

datami = [   ['46295', 'Montauk', '3', '60', '85', ['19', '5', '1', '0 $277790.00']],
             ['46295', 'Dark Eyes', '5', '59', '83', ['6', '4', '1', '0 $105625.00']],
             ['46295', 'Machinegun Jubs', '6', '53', '77', ['6', '2', '1', '1 $71685.00']],
             ['46295', 'Zara Bay', '1', '53', '77', ['12', '2', '3', '3 $112645.00']]]

flat = [ data[:-1] + data[-1] for data in datami ]

for data in datami: data.extend(data.pop())

print('flat copy of datami:', *flat, sep = '\n')
print('flattened datami:', *datami, sep = '\n')


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Mar  1 02:41:06 2017
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2017 08:41:06 +0100
Subject: How to flatten only one sub list of list of lists
References: <2c513652-c365-4a92-b204-d986fa41b7a0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <o95tud$j9a$1@blaine.gmane.org>

Sayth Renshaw wrote:

> How can I flatten just a specific sublist of each list in a list of lists?
> 
> So if I had this data
> 
> 
> [   ['46295', 'Montauk', '3', '60', '85', ['19', '5', '1', '0
> [   [$277790.00']],
>     ['46295', 'Dark Eyes', '5', '59', '83', ['6', '4', '1', '0
>     [$105625.00']], '46295', 'Machinegun Jubs', '6', '53', '77', ['6',
>     ['2', '1', '1 $71685.00']], '46295', 'Zara Bay', '1', '53', '77',
>     [['12', '2', '3', '3 $112645.00']]]
> 
> 
> How can I make it be
> 
> 
> [   ['46295', 'Montauk', '3', '60', '85', '19', '5', '1', '0 $277790.00'],
>     ['46295', 'Dark Eyes', '5', '59', '83', '6', '4', '1', '0
>     [$105625.00'], '46295', 'Machinegun Jubs', '6', '53', '77', '6', '2',
>     ['1', '1 $71685.00'], '46295', 'Zara Bay', '1', '53', '77', '12', '2',
>     ['3', '3 $112645.00']]
> 
> Been looking around but most solutions just entirely flatten everything.
> This was popular on SO but yeah it flattens everything  I want to be more
> selective
> 
> def flatten(lst):
>     for elem in lst:
>         if type(elem) in (tuple, list):
>             for i in flatten(elem):
>                 yield i
>         else:
>             yield elem
> 
> What I am thinking is that if for each list the sublist should be at index
> 1, so
> 
> [0][1]
> [1][1]
> [2][1]
> 
> for item in list:
>     item[1] - somehow flatten.
> 
> Thoughts?

Replace the slice row[index:index+1] with row[index], either by building a new list or in place:

>>> def show(data):
...    for item in data: print(item)
... 
>>> def flatten_one(rows, index):
...     return [r[:index] + r[index] + r[index+1:] for r in rows]
... 
>>> show(data)
['46295', 'Montauk', '3', '60', '85', ['19', '5', '1', '0 $277790.00']]
['46295', 'Dark Eyes', '5', '59', '83', ['6', '4', '1', '0 $105625.00']]
['46295', 'Machinegun Jubs', '6', '53', '77', ['6', '2', '1', '1 $71685.00']]
['46295', 'Zara Bay', '1', '53', '77', ['12', '2', '3', '3 $112645.00']]
>>> show(flatten_one(data, 5))
['46295', 'Montauk', '3', '60', '85', '19', '5', '1', '0 $277790.00']
['46295', 'Dark Eyes', '5', '59', '83', '6', '4', '1', '0 $105625.00']
['46295', 'Machinegun Jubs', '6', '53', '77', '6', '2', '1', '1 $71685.00']
['46295', 'Zara Bay', '1', '53', '77', '12', '2', '3', '3 $112645.00']
>>> def flatten_inplace(rows, index):
...     for row in rows:
...         row[index:index+1] = row[index]
... 
>>> flatten_inplace(data, 5)
>>> show(data)
['46295', 'Montauk', '3', '60', '85', '19', '5', '1', '0 $277790.00']
['46295', 'Dark Eyes', '5', '59', '83', '6', '4', '1', '0 $105625.00']
['46295', 'Machinegun Jubs', '6', '53', '77', '6', '2', '1', '1 $71685.00']
['46295', 'Zara Bay', '1', '53', '77', '12', '2', '3', '3 $112645.00']





From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Wed Mar  1 03:14:46 2017
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2017 00:14:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to flatten only one sub list of list of lists
In-Reply-To: <mailman.111.1488354076.2612.python-list@python.org>
References: <2c513652-c365-4a92-b204-d986fa41b7a0@googlegroups.com>
 <o95tud$j9a$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.111.1488354076.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0da00e1e-574e-4564-a705-adcb7d86bda0@googlegroups.com>


> Replace the slice row[index:index+1] with row[index], either by building a new list or in place:
> 
> >>> def show(data):
> ...    for item in data: print(item)
> ... 
> >>> def flatten_one(rows, index):
> ...     return [r[:index] + r[index] + r[index+1:] for r in rows]
> ... 

> >>> def flatten_inplace(rows, index):
> ...     for row in rows:
> ...         row[index:index+1] = row[index]
> ... 
> >>> flatten_inplace(data, 5)
> >>> show(data)
> ['46295', 'Montauk', '3', '60', '85', '19', '5', '1', '0 $277790.00']
> ['46295', 'Dark Eyes', '5', '59', '83', '6', '4', '1', '0 $105625.00']
> ['46295', 'Machinegun Jubs', '6', '53', '77', '6', '2', '1', '1 $71685.00']
> ['46295', 'Zara Bay', '1', '53', '77', '12', '2', '3', '3 $112645.00']

I went for the one I can understand which was inplace

def flatten_inplace(rows, index):
    for row in rows:
        row[index:index + 1] = row[index]

    return rows

See now if I can make it more adaptable to use it in some other situations, quite useful.

Thanks

Sayth


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Mar  1 05:50:57 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2017 05:50:57 -0500
Subject: Exposing all methods of a class
In-Reply-To: <f6356f1f-d296-4e4c-936b-bbdc35f59bf7@googlegroups.com>
References: <3afdc9ac-0679-f970-b604-e3367ca9788f@stridebird.com>
 <mailman.69.1488140148.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <f6356f1f-d296-4e4c-936b-bbdc35f59bf7@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <o9692c$ij9$1@blaine.gmane.org>

The class listing provided by the pydoc module browser, also in 
help(someclass), do list all methods.  Try
 >>> import tkinter
 >>> help(tkinter.Text)
for instance.

On 2/28/2017 7:16 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:

> IDLE has a "class browser" feature (@GUI_XY = File->
> Class_Browser) that displays a GUI tree of the currently
> opened module, although, and unfortunately for you, the
> scope of detail ends at the physical borders of the module.

I'd like to rename that 'module browser after enhancing coverage of 
functions a bit.

> However, by utilizing the introspection power of python
> (`import inspect`, for instance), you could probably
> implement something akin to "comprehensive introspection
> reform".

A real class browser, with the same info as in the help output, but more 
interactive, would be interesting.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From steve+python at pearwood.info  Wed Mar  1 06:18:42 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2017 22:18:42 +1100
Subject: Looking for documentation on how Python assigns to function parameters
Message-ID: <58b6ae14$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

Given a function like this:


def func(alpha, beta, gamma, delta=4, *args, **kw):
    ...


which is called in some fashion:

# say
func(1, 2, gamma=3, epsilon=5)

which may or may not be valid:

func(1, 2, alpha=0)

how does Python match up the formal parameters in the `def` statement with
the arguments given in the call to `func`?

I'm looking for official docs, if possible. So far I've had no luck finding
anything.



-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From steve+python at pearwood.info  Wed Mar  1 06:22:20 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2017 22:22:20 +1100
Subject: Looking for documentation on how Python assigns to function
 parameters
References: <58b6ae14$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <58b6aeed$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 10:18 pm, Steve D'Aprano wrote:

[...]
> how does Python match up the formal parameters in the `def` statement with
> the arguments given in the call to `func`?
> 
> I'm looking for official docs, if possible. So far I've had no luck
> finding anything.

Never mind, I found it about 30 seconds after hitting send.

https://docs.python.org/3/reference/expressions.html#calls



-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Wed Mar  1 06:27:29 2017
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2017 13:27:29 +0200
Subject: Looking for documentation on how Python assigns to function
 parameters
References: <58b6ae14$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <lf5d1e1nsny.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Steve D'Aprano writes:

> Given a function like this:
>
>
> def func(alpha, beta, gamma, delta=4, *args, **kw):
>     ...
>
>
> which is called in some fashion:
>
> # say
> func(1, 2, gamma=3, epsilon=5)
>
> which may or may not be valid:
>
> func(1, 2, alpha=0)
>
> how does Python match up the formal parameters in the `def` statement with
> the arguments given in the call to `func`?
>
> I'm looking for official docs, if possible. So far I've had no luck finding
> anything.

Possibly https://docs.python.org/3/reference/expressions.html#calls

Python 3.6.0 documentation, Language Reference
6. Expressions
6.3 Primaries
6.3.4 Calls


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Wed Mar  1 06:54:52 2017
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2017 05:54:52 -0600
Subject: Exposing all methods of a class
In-Reply-To: <o9692c$ij9$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <3afdc9ac-0679-f970-b604-e3367ca9788f@stridebird.com>
 <mailman.69.1488140148.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <f6356f1f-d296-4e4c-936b-bbdc35f59bf7@googlegroups.com>
 <o9692c$ij9$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20170301055452.75c02dec@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2017-03-01 05:50, Terry Reedy wrote:
> The class listing provided by the pydoc module browser, also in 
> help(someclass), do list all methods.  Try
>  >>> import tkinter
>  >>> help(tkinter.Text)
> for instance.

I've been stung by opaque objects a couple times:

1) when the method comes from calculation via __getattr__ type methods

  class Foo(object):
   def __getattr__(self, attr):
     if attr.startswith("say_"):
       utterance = attr[4:]
       def method():
         return "Hello, %s" % utterance
       return method

  f = Foo()
  f.say_Bob()
  dir(f)  # no "say_Bob" method

2) when the underlying object is written in C and doesn't expose the
dir() properly (I'm looking at mod_python's objects in particular
which didn't allow inspection the last time I used it; though in
fairness, this was 7-9yrs ago)

-tkc






From frank at chagford.com  Wed Mar  1 09:25:11 2017
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2017 16:25:11 +0200
Subject: asyncio does not always show the full traceback
In-Reply-To: <o93vs2$smi$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <o93vs2$smi$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <o96lk6$o3v$1@blaine.gmane.org>

"Frank Millman"  wrote in message news:o93vs2$smi$1 at blaine.gmane.org...
>
> I use asyncio in my project, so most of my functions start with 'async' 
> and
most of my calls are preceded by 'await'.
>
> If an exception is raised, I usually get the full traceback, but sometimes 
> I
just get something like the following -
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Users\User\aib\aib\test_data.py", line 645, in <module>
>     loop.run_until_complete(main(company))
>   File 
> "C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python36\lib\asyncio\base_events.py", 
> line 466, in run_until_complete
>     return future.result()
> ValueError: not enough values to unpack (expected 2, got 1)
>
> It does not show the line where the ValueError occurs, and I have not 
> managed to narrow down exactly when this happens.
>

I have narrowed it down a bit.

Here is a fairly simple example, based on some code I had lying around -

import asyncio
from itertools import count

async def aenumerate(aiterable):
    counter = count()
    async for x in aiterable:
        yield next(counter), x
        await asyncio.sleep(0.5)

async def gen(n):
    for i in range(100, 100+n):
        yield i

async def aenum():
    g = gen(5)
    async for a, x in aenumerate(g):
        print(a, x)
    print('done')

async def main():
    await aenum()

loop = asyncio.get_event_loop()
loop.run_until_complete(main())

If you run this as is, it works.

I added '1/0' at various points, to force an exception.

If I put it in main() or in aenum(), I do not get the full traceback.

If I put it in aenumerate() or in gen(), I do get the traceback.

I hope this enables someone cleverer than me to figure out what is going on.

Frank




From steve+python at pearwood.info  Wed Mar  1 09:38:14 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2017 01:38:14 +1100
Subject: Exposing all methods of a class
References: <3afdc9ac-0679-f970-b604-e3367ca9788f@stridebird.com>
 <mailman.69.1488140148.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58b6dcd7$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 07:15 am, Pete Dowdell wrote:

> I use Python, mainly with Django, for work. I was wondering if anyone
> has encountered an editor that could display a class with all inherited
> methods included in the editor's view of the class code.

Python 3.5 (if not earlier) can do most of the heavy lifting for this.
Here's a proof of concept:


import inspect

def expose(obj):
    if isinstance(obj, type):
        cls = obj
    else:
        cls = type(obj)
    attrs = inspect.classify_class_attrs(cls)
    by_class = {}
    for attr in attrs:
        if attr.name.startswith('_'):
            continue
        by_class.setdefault(attr.defining_class, []).append(attr)
    print("%s object %r" % (type(obj), obj))
    for K in by_class:
        print("Inheriting from: %s" % K)
        for attr in by_class[K]:
            print("    ", attr.name, attr.kind)




-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From storchaka at gmail.com  Wed Mar  1 15:36:34 2017
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2017 22:36:34 +0200
Subject: Manual parameter substitution in sqlite3
In-Reply-To: <CANc-5UwEGcck7ohdQ8-c+gD8k9jixsNMSrGh-OwLqzumr9=90Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANc-5UwEGcck7ohdQ8-c+gD8k9jixsNMSrGh-OwLqzumr9=90Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <o97bcc$r1m$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 28.02.17 19:28, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> Most of the time (well, all the time if you're smart), you let the
> database adapter do parameter substitution for you to avoid SQL
> injection attacks (or stupid users). So:
>
>     curs.execute("select * from mumble where key = ?", (key,))
>
> If you want to select from several possible keys, it would be nice to
> be able to do this:
>
>     curs.execute("select * from mumble where key in (?)", (keys,))
>
> but that doesn't work. Instead, you need to do your own parameter
> substitution. The quick-and-insecure way to do this is:
>
>     curs.execute("select * from mumble where key in (%s)" %
>                         ",".join([repr(k) for k in keys]))
>
> I'm pretty sure that's breakable.

     curs.execute("select * from mumble where %s" %
                      " or ".join(["key = ?"] * len(keys)),
                  *keys)




From robert at forzasilicon.com  Wed Mar  1 16:55:04 2017
From: robert at forzasilicon.com (robert at forzasilicon.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2017 13:55:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using re to perform grep functionality in Python
Message-ID: <7ba17723-6c85-4649-9485-bcab2842081e@googlegroups.com>

Hi All,

I'm relatively new to Python, and I am having some trouble with one of my scripts. Basically, this script connects to a server via ssh, runs Dell's omreport output, and then externally pipes it to a mail script in cron. The script uses an external call to grep via subprocess, but I would like to internalize everything to run in Python. I've read that re can accomplish the filtering, but I am having trouble getting it to duplicate what I already have.

##### USING EXTERNAL GREP #####

# display RAID controller info

cmd = ['ssh root at server.ip -C \"/opt/dell/srvadmin/sbin/omreport storage vdisk\"']

print '########## Array Status ##########'

p = subprocess.Popen(cmd, shell=True, stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
if call(["grep", "-i", "ID"], stdin=p.stdout) != 0:
   print final
   sys.stdout.write(p)
p.wait()

###### END #######

This gives me:

####### Array Status ##########
ID                                : 0
Layout                            : RAID-1
Associated Fluid Cache State      : Not Applicable
----

vs the full output of:

########## Array Status ##########
List of Virtual Disks in the System

Controller PERC H310 Mini (Embedded)
ID                                : 0
Status                            : Ok
Name                              : Main
State                             : Ready
Hot Spare Policy violated         : Not Assigned
Encrypted                         : Not Applicable
Layout                            : RAID-1
Size                              : 2,794.00 GB (3000034656256 bytes)
T10 Protection Information Status : No
Associated Fluid Cache State      : Not Applicable
Device Name                       : /dev/sda
Bus Protocol                      : SATA
Media                             : HDD
Read Policy                       : No Read Ahead
Write Policy                      : Write Through
Cache Policy                      : Not Applicable
Stripe Element Size               : 64 KB
Disk Cache Policy                 : Enabled

##### END ####

I've been tinkering around with re, and the only code that I've come up with that doesn't give me a type error is this:

cmd = ['ssh root at server.ip -C \"/opt/dell/srvadmin/sbin/omreport storage vdisk\"']

print '########## Array Status ##########'

p = subprocess.Popen(cmd, shell=True, stdout=subprocess.PIPE)

for line in p.stdout:
        final = re.findall('ID', line, re.DOTALL)
        print final
p.wait()


Which returns this:

########## Array Status ##########
[]
[]
[]
['ID']
[]
[]
[]
[]
[]
['ID']
[]
[]
[]
[]
[]
[]
[]
[]
[]
[]
[]

Obviously, not what I want. Can anyone feed some input?



From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Mar  1 17:29:17 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 09:29:17 +1100
Subject: Using re to perform grep functionality in Python
In-Reply-To: <7ba17723-6c85-4649-9485-bcab2842081e@googlegroups.com>
References: <7ba17723-6c85-4649-9485-bcab2842081e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqRGz13mX9fMPRyfv_vGChckQka2o8DXdw6vSdwUMctMg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 8:55 AM,  <robert at forzasilicon.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I'm relatively new to Python, and I am having some trouble with one of my scripts. Basically, this script connects to a server via ssh, runs Dell's omreport output, and then externally pipes it to a mail script in cron. The script uses an external call to grep via subprocess, but I would like to internalize everything to run in Python. I've read that re can accomplish the filtering, but I am having trouble getting it to duplicate what I already have.
>
> p = subprocess.Popen(cmd, shell=True, stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
> if call(["grep", "-i", "ID"], stdin=p.stdout) != 0:

This means "filter for lines that contain ID, case insensitively".

> for line in p.stdout:
>         final = re.findall('ID', line, re.DOTALL)
>         print final
> p.wait()

This part doesn't have the case sensitivity flag set.

But if this is the only thing you're doing with grep, you don't need a
regex at all. You can simply check if "ID" exists in the string. Since
you're using Python 2, I'm going to assume a naive byte-based case
insensitivity is sufficient for you, as you're probably working with
English-only and ASCII-only here.

for line in p.stdout:
    if "ID" in line.upper():
        print(line)
p.wait()

Give that a try :)

Oh, and if case insensitivity isn't an issue to you (if you don't
actually want "fluid" to show up), you can remove the .upper and just
write:

    if "ID" in line:

Very clean and pretty, IMO.

ChrisA


From robert at forzasilicon.com  Wed Mar  1 17:41:20 2017
From: robert at forzasilicon.com (robert at forzasilicon.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2017 14:41:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using re to perform grep functionality in Python
In-Reply-To: <7ba17723-6c85-4649-9485-bcab2842081e@googlegroups.com>
References: <7ba17723-6c85-4649-9485-bcab2842081e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <aa8df867-a07d-4c06-80a0-c57dc4d64928@googlegroups.com>

Thanks, Chris. That was nice and easy and very simple. 



From cs at zip.com.au  Wed Mar  1 17:54:42 2017
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 09:54:42 +1100
Subject: Using re to perform grep functionality in Python
In-Reply-To: <7ba17723-6c85-4649-9485-bcab2842081e@googlegroups.com>
References: <7ba17723-6c85-4649-9485-bcab2842081e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20170301225442.GA47587@cskk.homeip.net>

On 01Mar2017 13:55, robert at forzasilicon.com <robert at forzasilicon.com> wrote:
>I'm relatively new to Python, and I am having some trouble with one of my 
>scripts. Basically, this script connects to a server via ssh, runs Dell's 
>omreport output, and then externally pipes it to a mail script in cron. The 
>script uses an external call to grep via subprocess, but I would like to 
>internalize everything to run in Python. I've read that re can accomplish the 
>filtering, but I am having trouble getting it to duplicate what I already 
>have.
>
>##### USING EXTERNAL GREP #####
>
># display RAID controller info
>cmd = ['ssh root at server.ip -C \"/opt/dell/srvadmin/sbin/omreport storage 
>vdisk\"']
>
>print '########## Array Status ##########'
>p = subprocess.Popen(cmd, shell=True, stdout=subprocess.PIPE)

Might I recommend that you drop the shell quotes and invoke ssh directly?

    cmdargs = [ 'ssh', 'root at server.ip', '-C',
                '/opt/dell/srvadmin/sbin/omreport storage vdisk' ]
    p = subprocess.Popen(cmdargs, shell=False, stdout=subprocess.PIPE)

And since shell=False is the default you can leave it off. It is just generally 
better to avoid using the shell for commands as it introduces a layer of 
quoting and escaping, usually pointlessly and always with a risk of misuse.

>if call(["grep", "-i", "ID"], stdin=p.stdout) != 0:

You're just looking for "id" in any case. That's fairly loose. More commentry 
below the output...

[...]
>This gives me:
>ID                                : 0
>Layout                            : RAID-1
>Associated Fluid Cache State      : Not Applicable
>----
>
>vs the full output of:
>
>########## Array Status ##########
>List of Virtual Disks in the System
>
>Controller PERC H310 Mini (Embedded)
>ID                                : 0
>Status                            : Ok
>Name                              : Main
>State                             : Ready
>Hot Spare Policy violated         : Not Assigned
>Encrypted                         : Not Applicable
>Layout                            : RAID-1
>Size                              : 2,794.00 GB (3000034656256 bytes)
>T10 Protection Information Status : No
>Associated Fluid Cache State      : Not Applicable
>Device Name                       : /dev/sda
>Bus Protocol                      : SATA
>Media                             : HDD
>Read Policy                       : No Read Ahead
>Write Policy                      : Write Through
>Cache Policy                      : Not Applicable
>Stripe Element Size               : 64 KB
>Disk Cache Policy                 : Enabled
>
>##### END ####
>
>I've been tinkering around with re, and the only code that I've come up with that doesn't give me a type error is this:

[...]
>for line in p.stdout:
>        final = re.findall('ID', line, re.DOTALL)
>        print final
[...]
>[]
>[]
>[]
>['ID']
[...]

Findall returns a list of all the matches. What you want is "if findall found 
anything, print the whole line", and for that you would only need find() (since 
it is enough to find just one match, not all of them).

Might I suggest you don't use re at all? It has its uses but for your initial 
needs it is not necessary, and regexps are easy to get wrong (not to mention 
slow). Do a fixed string split:

    # trim the trailing newline and other padding if any
    line = line.strip()
    try:
        lhs, rhs = split(line, ':', 1)
    except ValueError:
        # no colon, probably a heading
        ... handle a heading, if you care ...
    else:
        field = lhs.strip()
        value = rhs.strip()
        if field == 'ID':
            ... note the controller id ...
        elif field == 'Layout':
            ... note the layout value ...
        ... whatever other fields you care about ...

You can see that in this way you can handle fields very specificly as you see 
fit.  Some RAID monitoring tools produce quite long reports, so you can also 
track state (what heading/controller/raidset am I in at present?) and build a 
data structure for better reporting.

As an example, have a gander at this:

    https://pypi.python.org/pypi/cs.app.megacli/20160310

which I wrote for IBM MegaRAIDs; it also does Dell PowerEdge (PERC) 
controllers.

It is deliberately Python 2 BTW, because it had to run on RHEL 5 which had 
Python 2.4 as the vendor supplied python.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use regular 
expressions. Now they have two problems."
- Jamie Zawinski, in alt.religion.emacs


From torriem at gmail.com  Wed Mar  1 19:13:18 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2017 17:13:18 -0700
Subject: Using re to perform grep functionality in Python
In-Reply-To: <7ba17723-6c85-4649-9485-bcab2842081e@googlegroups.com>
References: <7ba17723-6c85-4649-9485-bcab2842081e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8caae486-7d9d-c6e0-5c89-b663247e35f8@gmail.com>

On 03/01/2017 02:55 PM, robert at forzasilicon.com wrote:
> Obviously, not what I want. Can anyone feed some input?

You've already got some good answers, but I just wanted to point you at
this good resource:

http://www.dabeaz.com/generators/

Pretty much anything you do in a shell script that involves piping
through filters you can do in Python with flexible generator functions.
It's pretty neat.




From rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com  Wed Mar  1 21:41:29 2017
From: rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com (Rick Johnson)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2017 18:41:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Exposing all methods of a class
In-Reply-To: <mailman.112.1488365483.2612.python-list@python.org>
References: <3afdc9ac-0679-f970-b604-e3367ca9788f@stridebird.com>
 <mailman.69.1488140148.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <f6356f1f-d296-4e4c-936b-bbdc35f59bf7@googlegroups.com>
 <o9692c$ij9$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.112.1488365483.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <39784395-a0fb-4af0-a410-417565cf38e5@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 4:51:34 AM UTC-6, Terry Reedy wrote:
> The class listing provided by the pydoc module browser,
> also in help(someclass), do list all methods.  Try
>  >>> import tkinter
>  >>> help(tkinter.Text)
> for instance.
>
> On 2/28/2017 7:16 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:
> > IDLE has a "class browser" feature (@GUI_XY = File-
> > Class_Browser) that displays a GUI tree of the currently
> > opened module, although, and unfortunately for you, the
> > scope of detail ends at the physical borders of the
> > module.
>
> I'd like to rename that 'module browser after enhancing
> coverage of functions a bit.

Agreed. "Module Browser" is a far more intuitive name. And
since we all aware that IDLE needs an industrial quality
spit-shine, this could be a good first step!

A nice bonus feature (but potentially resource heavy) would
be a "include external dependancies" Checkbox that would
optionally expand the tree to include all imported module
structure as well (something akin to what the OP wanted, but
less "class centric"). Sure, it might be really slow if the
module has a ton of nested dependencies, but, it's not
something you'd need every day -- only when you're trying to
get a bird's-eye-view of an entire library, or package. And
this is where categorical methodologies like "Level Of
Detail" (LOD) become paramount to R&D. Because, you can
quickly become lost in a "sea of nodes" if the interface is
not properly designed.

> > However, by utilizing the introspection power of python
> > (`import inspect`, for instance), you could probably
> > implement something akin to "comprehensive introspection
> > reform".
>
> A real class browser, with the same info as in the help
> output, but more interactive, would be interesting.

Sure would. And a GUI interface affords you more latitude to
display complex/nested data structures in a manner that is
more conducive to eyeball-parsing -- as opposed to the
archaic and crass tactic of:

  sys.stdout.dump(umpteen_pages_of_text)

Nobody likes to be dumped on. ;-)


From auriocus at gmx.de  Thu Mar  2 03:55:54 2017
From: auriocus at gmx.de (Christian Gollwitzer)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 09:55:54 +0100
Subject: Manual parameter substitution in sqlite3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.97.1488302897.2612.python-list@python.org>
References: <CANc-5UwEGcck7ohdQ8-c+gD8k9jixsNMSrGh-OwLqzumr9=90Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.97.1488302897.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <o98mj6$3at$1@dont-email.me>

Am 28.02.17 um 18:28 schrieb Skip Montanaro:
> Most of the time (well, all the time if you're smart), you let the
> database adapter do parameter substitution for you to avoid SQL
> injection attacks (or stupid users). So:
>
>     curs.execute("select * from mumble where key = ?", (key,))
>
> If you want to select from several possible keys, it would be nice to
> be able to do this:
>
>     curs.execute("select * from mumble where key in (?)", (keys,))
>
> but that doesn't work.

Instead of building the query on the fly (with quoting hell etc.), you 
could do it "the (theoretical) right way", which is using another table. 
Insert your keys into a table, maybe temporary one, and then do

select * from mumble where key in (select key from keytable)

In theory that should also be faster, but unless you have a thousand 
keys, there will be no noticeable difference.

	Christian



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Mar  2 06:59:01 2017
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 05:59:01 -0600
Subject: Manual parameter substitution in sqlite3
In-Reply-To: <o98mj6$3at$1@dont-email.me>
References: <CANc-5UwEGcck7ohdQ8-c+gD8k9jixsNMSrGh-OwLqzumr9=90Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.97.1488302897.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <o98mj6$3at$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <20170302055901.1ca6dd58@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2017-03-02 09:55, Christian Gollwitzer wrote:
> you could do it "the (theoretical) right way", which is using
> another table. Insert your keys into a table, maybe temporary one,
> and then do
> 
> select * from mumble where key in (select key from keytable)
> 
> In theory that should also be faster, but unless you have a
> thousand keys, there will be no noticeable difference.

It would depend on the frequency with which the same query is
issued.  Bulk inserts, followed by the query, followed by cleaning up
the data would almost certainly be slower.  Bulk inserting the data
and then issuing thousands of queries against it could prove much
faster (though as with all things performance-related, test, don't
guess). But if the set of criteria changes frequently, the overhead
of inserting/deleting the data will almost certainly swamp any
potential speed-up.

-tkc







From songofacandy at gmail.com  Thu Mar  2 07:31:32 2017
From: songofacandy at gmail.com (INADA Naoki)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 21:31:32 +0900
Subject: asyncio does not always show the full traceback
In-Reply-To: <o96lk6$o3v$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <o93vs2$smi$1@blaine.gmane.org> <o96lk6$o3v$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAEfz+TyUdWJesyttqZg2_ROMPhmJRxqaGA2ULgFQV5QbpiiiXQ@mail.gmail.com>

I can't reproduce it on Linux.
Maybe, it's windows specific bug?

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 11:25 PM, Frank Millman <frank at chagford.com> wrote:
> "Frank Millman"  wrote in message news:o93vs2$smi$1 at blaine.gmane.org...
>>
>>
>> I use asyncio in my project, so most of my functions start with 'async'
>> and
>
> most of my calls are preceded by 'await'.
>>
>>
>> If an exception is raised, I usually get the full traceback, but sometimes
>> I
>
> just get something like the following -
>>
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "C:\Users\User\aib\aib\test_data.py", line 645, in <module>
>>     loop.run_until_complete(main(company))
>>   File
>> "C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python36\lib\asyncio\base_events.py",
>> line 466, in run_until_complete
>>     return future.result()
>> ValueError: not enough values to unpack (expected 2, got 1)
>>
>> It does not show the line where the ValueError occurs, and I have not
>> managed to narrow down exactly when this happens.
>>
>
> I have narrowed it down a bit.
>
> Here is a fairly simple example, based on some code I had lying around -
>
> import asyncio
> from itertools import count
>
> async def aenumerate(aiterable):
>    counter = count()
>    async for x in aiterable:
>        yield next(counter), x
>        await asyncio.sleep(0.5)
>
> async def gen(n):
>    for i in range(100, 100+n):
>        yield i
>
> async def aenum():
>    g = gen(5)
>    async for a, x in aenumerate(g):
>        print(a, x)
>    print('done')
>
> async def main():
>    await aenum()
>
> loop = asyncio.get_event_loop()
> loop.run_until_complete(main())
>
> If you run this as is, it works.
>
> I added '1/0' at various points, to force an exception.
>
> If I put it in main() or in aenum(), I do not get the full traceback.
>
> If I put it in aenumerate() or in gen(), I do get the traceback.
>
> I hope this enables someone cleverer than me to figure out what is going on.
>
> Frank
>
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From frank at chagford.com  Thu Mar  2 07:55:46 2017
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 14:55:46 +0200
Subject: asyncio does not always show the full traceback
In-Reply-To: <CAEfz+TyUdWJesyttqZg2_ROMPhmJRxqaGA2ULgFQV5QbpiiiXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <o93vs2$smi$1@blaine.gmane.org> <o96lk6$o3v$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAEfz+TyUdWJesyttqZg2_ROMPhmJRxqaGA2ULgFQV5QbpiiiXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <o994og$84k$1@blaine.gmane.org>

"INADA Naoki"  wrote in message 
news:CAEfz+TyUdWJesyttqZg2_ROMPhmJRxqaGA2ULgFQV5QbpiiiXQ at mail.gmail.com...
>
> I can't reproduce it on Linux.
> Maybe, it's windows specific bug?
>

> import asyncio
> from itertools import count
>
> async def aenumerate(aiterable):
>    counter = count()
>    async for x in aiterable:
>        yield next(counter), x
>        await asyncio.sleep(0.5)
>
> async def gen(n):
>    for i in range(100, 100+n):
>        yield i
>
> async def aenum():
>    g = gen(5)
>    async for a, x in aenumerate(g):
>        print(a, x)
>    print('done')
>
> async def main():
>    await aenum()
>
> loop = asyncio.get_event_loop()
> loop.run_until_complete(main())
>

Thanks for the reply.

I tried it out on linux (Fedora 22, Python 3.6.0b4), and I get the same 
result as I do on Windows.

If I place '1/0' in main(), this is the traceback -

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test_db1a.py", line 25, in <module>
    loop.run_until_complete(main())
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/asyncio/base_events.py", line 466, in 
run_until_complete
    return future.result()
ZeroDivisionError: division by zero

If I place '1/0' in gen(), this is the traceback -

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test_db1a.py", line 25, in <module>
    loop.run_until_complete(main())
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/asyncio\base_events.py", line 466, in 
run_until_complete
    return future.result()
  File "test_db1a.py", line 17, in aenum
    async for a, x in aenumerate(g):
  File "test_db1a.py", line 6, in aenumerate
    async for x in aiterable:
  File "test_db1a.py", line 11, in gen
    1/0
ZeroDivisionError: division by zero

Can anyone else confirm whether they can reproduce my results?

Thanks

Frank




From songofacandy at gmail.com  Thu Mar  2 08:05:24 2017
From: songofacandy at gmail.com (INADA Naoki)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 22:05:24 +0900
Subject: asyncio does not always show the full traceback
In-Reply-To: <o994og$84k$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <o93vs2$smi$1@blaine.gmane.org> <o96lk6$o3v$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAEfz+TyUdWJesyttqZg2_ROMPhmJRxqaGA2ULgFQV5QbpiiiXQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <o994og$84k$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAEfz+TxGosjCVLahHk=2Mt-KPRbD9V5r8DyZ=JhPEDBLQS8A-w@mail.gmail.com>

Could you use 3.6.0 instead of b4?

I added 1/0 at:

...
async def main():
   1/0
   await aenum()
...

then:

$ pyenv/versions/3.6.0/bin/python3 -VV
Python 3.6.0 (default, Jan 16 2017, 19:41:10)
[GCC 6.2.0 20161005]

$ pyenv/versions/3.6.0/bin/python3 a.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "a.py", line 25, in <module>
    loop.run_until_complete(main())
  File "/home/inada-n/pyenv/versions/3.6.0/lib/python3.6/asyncio/base_events.py",
line 466, in run_until_complete
    return future.result()
  File "a.py", line 21, in main
    1/0
ZeroDivisionError: division by zero


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Mar  2 08:06:15 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 00:06:15 +1100
Subject: asyncio does not always show the full traceback
In-Reply-To: <o994og$84k$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <o93vs2$smi$1@blaine.gmane.org> <o96lk6$o3v$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAEfz+TyUdWJesyttqZg2_ROMPhmJRxqaGA2ULgFQV5QbpiiiXQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <o994og$84k$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqpSnQkHr3vTc7t5QO01df5r-qY2CvQGuxZwaM0eEvJ=Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 11:55 PM, Frank Millman <frank at chagford.com> wrote:
> If I place '1/0' in main(), this is the traceback -
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "test_db1a.py", line 25, in <module>
>    loop.run_until_complete(main())
>  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/asyncio/base_events.py", line 466, in
> run_until_complete
>    return future.result()
> ZeroDivisionError: division by zero
>
> Can anyone else confirm whether they can reproduce my results?

Not replicated.

Python 3.7.0a0 (default:cebc9c7ad195+, Feb 28 2017, 01:09:27)
[GCC 6.2.0 20161027] on linux

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "acrash.py", line 25, in <module>
    loop.run_until_complete(main())
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.7/asyncio/base_events.py", line 465, in
run_until_complete
    return future.result()
  File "acrash.py", line 21, in main
    1/0
ZeroDivisionError: division by zero

That's inserting 1/0 just before "await aenum()". Switching the order
of the lines also produces the expected result - delayed output, then
an exception that shows the crashing line.

ChrisA


From frank at chagford.com  Thu Mar  2 08:08:22 2017
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 15:08:22 +0200
Subject: asyncio does not always show the full traceback
In-Reply-To: <o994og$84k$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <o93vs2$smi$1@blaine.gmane.org> <o96lk6$o3v$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAEfz+TyUdWJesyttqZg2_ROMPhmJRxqaGA2ULgFQV5QbpiiiXQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <o994og$84k$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <o995g5$ojc$1@blaine.gmane.org>

"Frank Millman"  wrote in message news:o994og$84k$1 at blaine.gmane.org...
>
> If I place '1/0' in main(), this is the traceback -
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "test_db1a.py", line 25, in <module>
>     loop.run_until_complete(main())
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/asyncio/base_events.py", line 466, in 
> run_until_complete
>     return future.result()
> ZeroDivisionError: division by zero
>
> If I place '1/0' in gen(), this is the traceback -
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "test_db1a.py", line 25, in <module>
>     loop.run_until_complete(main())
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/asyncio\base_events.py", line 466, in 
> run_until_complete
>     return future.result()
>   File "test_db1a.py", line 17, in aenum
>     async for a, x in aenumerate(g):
>   File "test_db1a.py", line 6, in aenumerate
>     async for x in aiterable:
>   File "test_db1a.py", line 11, in gen
>     1/0
> ZeroDivisionError: division by zero

For completeness, if I place '1/0' in aenum(), I get exactly the same 
traceback as the first one above.

Frank




From formisc at gmail.com  Thu Mar  2 11:02:45 2017
From: formisc at gmail.com (Andrew Zyman)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 08:02:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: list of the lists - append after search
Message-ID: <9b6e552f-5584-4572-9ef6-c5f614ac497a@googlegroups.com>

Hello,
 please advise.

 I'd like search and append the internal list in the list-of-the-lists.

Example:
 ll =[ [a,1], [b,2], [c,3], [blah, 1000] ]

 i want to search for the internal [] based on the string field and, if matches, append that list with a value.

  if internal_list[0] == 'blah':
      ll[ internal_list].append = [ 'new value']

End result:
 ll =[ [a,1], [b,2], [c,3], [blah, 1000, 'new value'] ]


I came up with the following, but the second stmnt is not correct:

print [x for x in ll if x[0]== 'blah']
print ll.index([x for x in ll if x[0]=='blah'])

output:
ValueError: [['blah', 1]] is not in list




thank you
AZ


From formisc at gmail.com  Thu Mar  2 11:08:31 2017
From: formisc at gmail.com (Andrew Zyman)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 08:08:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: spam issue
Message-ID: <1ea22f17-cd73-4e52-80f2-dde488d6913c@googlegroups.com>

Why is this group have such an obscene number of spam posts ?
I'm subscribed to a few other google groups and this is the only one that has this issue.


From songofacandy at gmail.com  Thu Mar  2 11:11:40 2017
From: songofacandy at gmail.com (INADA Naoki)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 01:11:40 +0900
Subject: asyncio does not always show the full traceback
In-Reply-To: <o995g5$ojc$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <o93vs2$smi$1@blaine.gmane.org> <o96lk6$o3v$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAEfz+TyUdWJesyttqZg2_ROMPhmJRxqaGA2ULgFQV5QbpiiiXQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <o994og$84k$1@blaine.gmane.org> <o995g5$ojc$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAEfz+Tz8hVwmh5CF17mv3aCcdqThj1AXDDga8UmnZnUUWESbfg@mail.gmail.com>

> For completeness, if I place '1/0' in aenum(), I get exactly the same
> traceback as the first one above.
>

I can't reproduce it too.
Did you 3.6.0 this time?  Or did you used 3.6b4 again?
Please don't use beta when asking question or reporting bug.


From songofacandy at gmail.com  Thu Mar  2 11:14:55 2017
From: songofacandy at gmail.com (INADA Naoki)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 01:14:55 +0900
Subject: asyncio does not always show the full traceback
In-Reply-To: <CAEfz+Tz8hVwmh5CF17mv3aCcdqThj1AXDDga8UmnZnUUWESbfg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <o93vs2$smi$1@blaine.gmane.org> <o96lk6$o3v$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAEfz+TyUdWJesyttqZg2_ROMPhmJRxqaGA2ULgFQV5QbpiiiXQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <o994og$84k$1@blaine.gmane.org> <o995g5$ojc$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAEfz+Tz8hVwmh5CF17mv3aCcdqThj1AXDDga8UmnZnUUWESbfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEfz+Tyw+_YpfhTcBROxVz84ik3NZPKi5CVEX0zp=2nNRnN_AQ@mail.gmail.com>

FYI, you can easily find this changelog of Python 3.6rc1:

- bpo-28843: Fix asyncio C Task to handle exceptions __traceback__.

See also: https://bugs.python.org/issue28843

On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 1:11 AM, INADA Naoki <songofacandy at gmail.com> wrote:
>> For completeness, if I place '1/0' in aenum(), I get exactly the same
>> traceback as the first one above.
>>
>
> I can't reproduce it too.
> Did you 3.6.0 this time?  Or did you used 3.6b4 again?
> Please don't use beta when asking question or reporting bug.


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar  2 11:26:56 2017
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2017 17:26:56 +0100
Subject: list of the lists - append after search
References: <9b6e552f-5584-4572-9ef6-c5f614ac497a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <o99h4e$d7b$1@blaine.gmane.org>

Andrew Zyman wrote:

> Hello,
>  please advise.
> 
>  I'd like search and append the internal list in the list-of-the-lists.
> 
> Example:
>  ll =[ [a,1], [b,2], [c,3], [blah, 1000] ]
> 
>  i want to search for the internal [] based on the string field and, if
>  matches, append that list with a value.
> 
>   if internal_list[0] == 'blah':
>       ll[ internal_list].append = [ 'new value']
> 
> End result:
>  ll =[ [a,1], [b,2], [c,3], [blah, 1000, 'new value'] ]

>>> outer = [["a", 1], ["b", 2], ["c", 3], ["blah", 1000]]
>>> for inner in outer:
...     if inner[0] == "blah":
...         inner.append("new value")
... 
>>> outer
[['a', 1], ['b', 2], ['c', 3], ['blah', 1000, 'new value']]


While this is what you are asking for it will get slower as the list grows. 
A better solution uses a dictionary:

>>> outer = [["a", 1], ["b", 2], ["c", 3], ["blah", 1000]]
>>> lookup = {inner[0]: inner[1:] for inner in outer}
>>> lookup
{'a': [1], 'blah': [1000], 'b': [2], 'c': [3]}
>>> lookup["blah"].append("whatever")
>>> lookup
{'a': [1], 'blah': [1000, 'whatever'], 'b': [2], 'c': [3]}




From chololennon at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  2 13:31:32 2017
From: chololennon at hotmail.com (Cholo Lennon)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 15:31:32 -0300
Subject: spam issue
References: <1ea22f17-cd73-4e52-80f2-dde488d6913c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <o99oe3$1m48$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On 02/03/17 13:08, Andrew Zyman wrote:
> Why is this group have such an obscene number of spam posts ?
> I'm subscribed to a few other google groups and this is the only one that has this issue.
>

Google groups act like a "web frontend" for nntp protocol (on which this 
group is based). I suppose Google doesn't filter spam messages in its 
interface. Try using a newsreader like Mozilla Thunderbird and point it 
to a news server. In my case I use "news.aioe.org", it's free and it 
doesn't have spam. The only minor problem is its retention policy (a 
couple of months or so, but any newsreader can cache messages in your 
computer the time you want)

Regards


-- 
Cholo Lennon
Bs.As.
ARG




From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Mar  2 13:39:39 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 05:39:39 +1100
Subject: spam issue
In-Reply-To: <o99oe3$1m48$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <1ea22f17-cd73-4e52-80f2-dde488d6913c@googlegroups.com>
 <o99oe3$1m48$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqXPtrZECe8Sw3nrCc9Sibu2J9EMi5oiQP6JaaYm7S17w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 5:31 AM, Cholo Lennon <chololennon at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Google groups act like a "web frontend" for nntp protocol (on which this
> group is based). I suppose Google doesn't filter spam messages in its
> interface. Try using a newsreader like Mozilla Thunderbird and point it to a
> news server. In my case I use "news.aioe.org", it's free and it doesn't have
> spam. The only minor problem is its retention policy (a couple of months or
> so, but any newsreader can cache messages in your computer the time you
> want)
>

Or the mailing list, depending on how you like to read things. The
list has some additional filtering and moderation, which I appreciate.

ChrisA


From stamnik at gmail.com  Thu Mar  2 13:52:35 2017
From: stamnik at gmail.com (stamnik at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 10:52:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: dnspython update dns record issue
Message-ID: <19859589-fb36-4d81-a2e3-22d3aa234af9@googlegroups.com>

I'm trying to use dnspython to do a TSIG based dynamic DNS update.
I've followed the example code :


#!/usr/bin/env python
import sys
import dns.update
import dns.query
import dns.tsigkeyring
 
keyring = dns.tsigkeyring.from_text({
    'keyname.' : 'VarFF=2Xts7T5Vb/xd&8ir=='
})
update = dns.update.Update('domain_name', keyring=keyring)
update.replace('myserver', 30, 'a', '88.88.88.88')
response = dns.query.tcp(update, 'dns_ip',timeout=10)

and here is what I got:

   response = dns.query.tcp(update, 'dns_ip',timeout=10)
  File "/root/bck/dnspython/dns/query.py", line 475, in tcp
    q.keyring, q.mac)
  File "/root/bck/dnspython/dns/query.py", line 412, in receive_tcp
    one_rr_per_rrset=one_rr_per_rrset)
  File "/root/bck/dnspython/dns/message.py", line 821, in from_wire
    reader.read()
  File "/root/bck/dnspython/dns/message.py", line 749, in read
    self._get_section(self.message.additional, adcount)
  File "/root/bck/dnspython/dns/message.py", line 701, in _get_section
    self.message.first)
  File "/root/bck/dnspython/dns/tsig.py", line 198, in validate
    raise BadSignature
dns.tsig.BadSignature: The TSIG signature fails to verify.



Thanks in advance to anyone who can help!


From formisc at gmail.com  Thu Mar  2 13:57:07 2017
From: formisc at gmail.com (Andrew Zyman)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 10:57:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: spam issue
In-Reply-To: <mailman.130.1488479982.2612.python-list@python.org>
References: <1ea22f17-cd73-4e52-80f2-dde488d6913c@googlegroups.com>
 <o99oe3$1m48$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <CAPTjJmqXPtrZECe8Sw3nrCc9Sibu2J9EMi5oiQP6JaaYm7S17w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.130.1488479982.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d3e7b5e9-e997-4640-8f25-1098258f92eb@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 1:39:54 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 5:31 AM, Cholo Lennon <chololennon at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Google groups act like a "web frontend" for nntp protocol (on which this
> > group is based). I suppose Google doesn't filter spam messages in its
> > interface. Try using a newsreader like Mozilla Thunderbird and point it to a
> > news server. In my case I use "news.aioe.org", it's free and it doesn't have
> > spam. The only minor problem is its retention policy (a couple of months or
> > so, but any newsreader can cache messages in your computer the time you
> > want)
> >
> 
> Or the mailing list, depending on how you like to read things. The
> list has some additional filtering and moderation, which I appreciate.
> 
> ChrisA


you mean on python.org ?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Mar  2 14:04:22 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 06:04:22 +1100
Subject: spam issue
In-Reply-To: <d3e7b5e9-e997-4640-8f25-1098258f92eb@googlegroups.com>
References: <1ea22f17-cd73-4e52-80f2-dde488d6913c@googlegroups.com>
 <o99oe3$1m48$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <CAPTjJmqXPtrZECe8Sw3nrCc9Sibu2J9EMi5oiQP6JaaYm7S17w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.130.1488479982.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <d3e7b5e9-e997-4640-8f25-1098258f92eb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqNA5W4sBrTAFbZC+VwkdZF4PznwJB4XqtPHPpuDzEFSA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 5:57 AM, Andrew Zyman <formisc at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Or the mailing list, depending on how you like to read things. The
>> list has some additional filtering and moderation, which I appreciate.
>>
>> ChrisA
>
>
> you mean on python.org ?

Yeah. You can sign up here:

https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

The content is the same as on the newsgroup, modulo the differences in
filtering/moderation, so you can make a stylistic choice to read it as
a newsgroup or as a mailing list.

ChrisA


From formisc at gmail.com  Thu Mar  2 14:07:57 2017
From: formisc at gmail.com (Andrew Zyman)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 11:07:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: list of the lists - append after search
In-Reply-To: <mailman.129.1488472042.2612.python-list@python.org>
References: <9b6e552f-5584-4572-9ef6-c5f614ac497a@googlegroups.com>
 <o99h4e$d7b$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.129.1488472042.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <26642604-2a86-4d3a-abeb-0d7491f5ab97@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 11:27:34 AM UTC-5, Peter Otten wrote:
> Andrew Zyman wrote:
> .....
> .....
> > End result:
> >  ll =[ [a,1], [b,2], [c,3], [blah, 1000, 'new value'] ]
> 
> >>> outer = [["a", 1], ["b", 2], ["c", 3], ["blah", 1000]]
> >>> for inner in outer:
> ...     if inner[0] == "blah":
> ...         inner.append("new value")

thank you. this will do. 
Just curious, is the above loop can be done in a one-liner?


> While this is what you are asking for it will get slower as the list grows. 
> A better solution uses a dictionary:

> >>> lookup = {inner[0]: inner[1:] for inner in outer}

Yes, understood, i don't expect the list to grow above a few thousand entries. But i do agree that utilizing the dict is more efficient.




From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Mar  2 14:21:48 2017
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2017 20:21:48 +0100
Subject: list of the lists - append after search
References: <9b6e552f-5584-4572-9ef6-c5f614ac497a@googlegroups.com>
 <o99h4e$d7b$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.129.1488472042.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <26642604-2a86-4d3a-abeb-0d7491f5ab97@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <o99rc7$m17$1@blaine.gmane.org>

Andrew Zyman wrote:

> On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 11:27:34 AM UTC-5, Peter Otten wrote:
>> Andrew Zyman wrote:
>> .....
>> .....
>> > End result:
>> >  ll =[ [a,1], [b,2], [c,3], [blah, 1000, 'new value'] ]
>> 
>> >>> outer = [["a", 1], ["b", 2], ["c", 3], ["blah", 1000]]
>> >>> for inner in outer:
>> ...     if inner[0] == "blah":
>> ...         inner.append("new value")
> 
> thank you. this will do.
> Just curious, is the above loop can be done in a one-liner?

Ah, that newbie obsession ;)

>>> outer = [["a", 1], ["b", 2], ["c", 3], ["blah", 1000]]
>>> [inner + ["new value"] if inner[0] == "blah" else inner for inner in 
outer]
[['a', 1], ['b', 2], ['c', 3], ['blah', 1000, 'new value']]

Note that there is a technical difference to be aware of -- matching lists 
are replaced rather than modified.

>> While this is what you are asking for it will get slower as the list
>> grows. A better solution uses a dictionary:
> 
>> >>> lookup = {inner[0]: inner[1:] for inner in outer}
> 
> Yes, understood, i don't expect the list to grow above a few thousand
> entries. But i do agree that utilizing the dict is more efficient.




From breamoreboy at gmail.com  Thu Mar  2 14:27:55 2017
From: breamoreboy at gmail.com (breamoreboy at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 11:27:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: spam issue
In-Reply-To: <1ea22f17-cd73-4e52-80f2-dde488d6913c@googlegroups.com>
References: <1ea22f17-cd73-4e52-80f2-dde488d6913c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5d5288da-ab29-474f-a808-63ab1befa4f5@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 4:08:44 PM UTC, Andrew Zyman wrote:
> Why is this group have such an obscene number of spam posts ?
> I'm subscribed to a few other google groups and this is the only one that has this issue.

The bulk having lots of block capitals and in Italian?  Been happening for years.  Just use gmane, gives you access to hundreds of Python lists and thousands of others in one hit.

Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Mar  2 14:33:58 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 06:33:58 +1100
Subject: Python3.6 a little conundrum
In-Reply-To: <C_ZtA.16397$p41.13139@fx21.am4>
References: <C_ZtA.16397$p41.13139@fx21.am4>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrDcWXdF=Dbbi94UGB0HTp9SW1nY--RmnTUrSPennCLCg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 6:01 AM, Gilmeh Serda
<gilmeh.serdah at nothing.here.invalid> wrote:
> After compiling and NOT installing (need to keep the 2.7 around,
> undisturbed).
>
> Just testing something out:
>
> $ python36
> Python 3.6.0 (default, Mar  1 2017, 22:11:43)
> [GCC 4.6.3] on linux
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> s = 'testing'
>
> Then, I'm used to pressing the up arrow to get the same row again, only I
> get this:
>
>>>> ^[[A
>
> Other than that, it seems to be working fine.

Sounds like you don't have readline. You're compiling on Linux, so
most likely you need to use your package manager to install the
readline development libraries. On my Debian, it's:

sudo apt-get install libreadline-dev

On Ubuntu and related, it's likely to be the same. On other distros,
check your package manager for something talking about "readline" and
"dev", and it's probably that.

ChrisA


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Thu Mar  2 14:56:51 2017
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2017 21:56:51 +0200
Subject: list of the lists - append after search
References: <9b6e552f-5584-4572-9ef6-c5f614ac497a@googlegroups.com>
 <o99h4e$d7b$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.129.1488472042.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <26642604-2a86-4d3a-abeb-0d7491f5ab97@googlegroups.com>
 <o99rc7$m17$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.132.1488482523.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lf5r32f5u64.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:

> Andrew Zyman wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 11:27:34 AM UTC-5, Peter Otten wrote:
>>> Andrew Zyman wrote:
>>> .....
>>> .....
>>> > End result:
>>> >  ll =[ [a,1], [b,2], [c,3], [blah, 1000, 'new value'] ]
>>> 
>>> >>> outer = [["a", 1], ["b", 2], ["c", 3], ["blah", 1000]]
>>> >>> for inner in outer:
>>> ...     if inner[0] == "blah":
>>> ...         inner.append("new value")
>> 
>> thank you. this will do.
>> Just curious, is the above loop can be done in a one-liner?
>
> Ah, that newbie obsession ;)
>
>>>> outer = [["a", 1], ["b", 2], ["c", 3], ["blah", 1000]]
>>>> [inner + ["new value"] if inner[0] == "blah" else inner for inner in 
> outer]
> [['a', 1], ['b', 2], ['c', 3], ['blah', 1000, 'new value']]
>
> Note that there is a technical difference to be aware of -- matching
> lists are replaced rather than modified.

I take it you are too sane, or too kind, to suggest the obvious
solution:

>>> outer = [["a", 1], ["b", 2], ["c", 3], ["blah", 1000]]
>>> [inner.append("new value") for inner in outer if inner[0] == "blah"]
[None]
>>> outer
[['a', 1], ['b', 2], ['c', 3], ['blah', 1000, 'new value']]

[snip]


From formisc at gmail.com  Thu Mar  2 15:06:39 2017
From: formisc at gmail.com (Andrew Zyman)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 12:06:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: spam issue
In-Reply-To: <5d5288da-ab29-474f-a808-63ab1befa4f5@googlegroups.com>
References: <1ea22f17-cd73-4e52-80f2-dde488d6913c@googlegroups.com>
 <5d5288da-ab29-474f-a808-63ab1befa4f5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6e6b9e01-31ff-4147-bff7-83b50837d56f@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 2:28:04 PM UTC-5, bream... at gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 4:08:44 PM UTC, Andrew Zyman wrote:
> > Why is this group have such an obscene number of spam posts ?
> > I'm subscribed to a few other google groups and this is the only one that has this issue.
> 
> The bulk having lots of block capitals and in Italian?  Been happening for years.  Just use gmane, gives you access to hundreds of Python lists and thousands of others in one hit.
> 
> Kindest regards.
> 
> Mark Lawrence.


thank you gents!


From formisc at gmail.com  Thu Mar  2 15:11:23 2017
From: formisc at gmail.com (Andrew Zyman)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 12:11:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: list of the lists - append after search
In-Reply-To: <lf5r32f5u64.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
References: <9b6e552f-5584-4572-9ef6-c5f614ac497a@googlegroups.com>
 <o99h4e$d7b$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.129.1488472042.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <26642604-2a86-4d3a-abeb-0d7491f5ab97@googlegroups.com>
 <o99rc7$m17$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.132.1488482523.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <lf5r32f5u64.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <6c2c8b07-55de-432e-816a-54da65243f52@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 2:57:02 PM UTC-5, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:
> 
> > Andrew Zyman wrote:
> >
> >> On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 11:27:34 AM UTC-5, Peter Otten wrote:
> >>> Andrew Zyman wrote:
> >>> .....
> >>> .....
> >>> > End result:
> >>> >  ll =[ [a,1], [b,2], [c,3], [blah, 1000, 'new value'] ]
> >>> 
> >>> >>> outer = [["a", 1], ["b", 2], ["c", 3], ["blah", 1000]]
> >>> >>> for inner in outer:
> >>> ...     if inner[0] == "blah":
> >>> ...         inner.append("new value")
> >> 
> >> thank you. this will do.
> >> Just curious, is the above loop can be done in a one-liner?
> >
> > Ah, that newbie obsession ;)
> >
> >>>> outer = [["a", 1], ["b", 2], ["c", 3], ["blah", 1000]]
> >>>> [inner + ["new value"] if inner[0] == "blah" else inner for inner in 
> > outer]
> > [['a', 1], ['b', 2], ['c', 3], ['blah', 1000, 'new value']]
> >
> > Note that there is a technical difference to be aware of -- matching
> > lists are replaced rather than modified.
> 
> I take it you are too sane, or too kind, to suggest the obvious
> solution:
> 
> >>> outer = [["a", 1], ["b", 2], ["c", 3], ["blah", 1000]]
> >>> [inner.append("new value") for inner in outer if inner[0] == "blah"]
> [None]
> >>> outer
> [['a', 1], ['b', 2], ['c', 3], ['blah', 1000, 'new value']]
> 
> [snip]

Arh!!! this is it :)

I'm sure i'll regret this line of code in 2 weeks - after i successfully forget what i wanted to achieve :)


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Thu Mar  2 15:31:27 2017
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2017 22:31:27 +0200
Subject: list of the lists - append after search
References: <9b6e552f-5584-4572-9ef6-c5f614ac497a@googlegroups.com>
 <o99h4e$d7b$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.129.1488472042.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <26642604-2a86-4d3a-abeb-0d7491f5ab97@googlegroups.com>
 <o99rc7$m17$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.132.1488482523.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <lf5r32f5u64.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <6c2c8b07-55de-432e-816a-54da65243f52@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <lf5mvd35skg.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Andrew Zyman writes:

> On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 2:57:02 PM UTC-5, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
>> Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:
>> 
>> > Andrew Zyman wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 11:27:34 AM UTC-5, Peter Otten wrote:
>> >>> Andrew Zyman wrote:
>> >>> .....
>> >>> .....
>> >>> > End result:
>> >>> >  ll =[ [a,1], [b,2], [c,3], [blah, 1000, 'new value'] ]
>> >>> 
>> >>> >>> outer = [["a", 1], ["b", 2], ["c", 3], ["blah", 1000]]
>> >>> >>> for inner in outer:
>> >>> ...     if inner[0] == "blah":
>> >>> ...         inner.append("new value")
>> >> 
>> >> thank you. this will do.
>> >> Just curious, is the above loop can be done in a one-liner?
>> >
>> > Ah, that newbie obsession ;)
>> >
>> >>>> outer = [["a", 1], ["b", 2], ["c", 3], ["blah", 1000]]
>> >>>> [inner + ["new value"] if inner[0] == "blah" else inner for inner in 
>> > outer]
>> > [['a', 1], ['b', 2], ['c', 3], ['blah', 1000, 'new value']]
>> >
>> > Note that there is a technical difference to be aware of -- matching
>> > lists are replaced rather than modified.
>> 
>> I take it you are too sane, or too kind, to suggest the obvious
>> solution:
>> 
>> >>> outer = [["a", 1], ["b", 2], ["c", 3], ["blah", 1000]]
>> >>> [inner.append("new value") for inner in outer if inner[0] == "blah"]
>> [None]
>> >>> outer
>> [['a', 1], ['b', 2], ['c', 3], ['blah', 1000, 'new value']]
>> 
>> [snip]
>
> Arh!!! this is it :)
>
> I'm sure i'll regret this line of code in 2 weeks - after i
> successfully forget what i wanted to achieve :)

Jokes aside, you should strive to express your intention in your code.
Be kind to your future self. Write the three-line loop if you want
in-place modification.

I use comprehensions a lot, but not to save lines. I might make Peter's
expression above a four-liner to make its structure more visible:

  res = [ ( inner + ["new value"]
            if inner[0] == "blah"
            else inner )
          for inner in outer ]

Maybe.


From formisc at gmail.com  Thu Mar  2 15:53:16 2017
From: formisc at gmail.com (Andrew Zyman)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 12:53:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: list of the lists - append after search
In-Reply-To: <lf5mvd35skg.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
References: <9b6e552f-5584-4572-9ef6-c5f614ac497a@googlegroups.com>
 <o99h4e$d7b$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.129.1488472042.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <26642604-2a86-4d3a-abeb-0d7491f5ab97@googlegroups.com>
 <o99rc7$m17$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.132.1488482523.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <lf5r32f5u64.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <6c2c8b07-55de-432e-816a-54da65243f52@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5mvd35skg.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <b73ae3a1-1297-4304-aae0-63773ca01b24@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 3:31:36 PM UTC-5, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> Andrew Zyman writes:
> 
> > On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 2:57:02 PM UTC-5, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> >> Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:
> >> 
> >> > Andrew Zyman wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 11:27:34 AM UTC-5, Peter Otten wrote:
> >> >>> Andrew Zyman wrote:
> >> >>> .....
> >> >>> .....
> >> >>> > End result:
> >> >>> >  ll =[ [a,1], [b,2], [c,3], [blah, 1000, 'new value'] ]
> >> >>> 
> >> >>> >>> outer = [["a", 1], ["b", 2], ["c", 3], ["blah", 1000]]
> >> >>> >>> for inner in outer:
> >> >>> ...     if inner[0] == "blah":
> >> >>> ...         inner.append("new value")
> >> >> 
> >> >> thank you. this will do.
> >> >> Just curious, is the above loop can be done in a one-liner?
> >> >
> >> > Ah, that newbie obsession ;)
> >> >
> >> >>>> outer = [["a", 1], ["b", 2], ["c", 3], ["blah", 1000]]
> >> >>>> [inner + ["new value"] if inner[0] == "blah" else inner for inner in 
> >> > outer]
> >> > [['a', 1], ['b', 2], ['c', 3], ['blah', 1000, 'new value']]
> >> >
> >> > Note that there is a technical difference to be aware of -- matching
> >> > lists are replaced rather than modified.
> >> 
> >> I take it you are too sane, or too kind, to suggest the obvious
> >> solution:
> >> 
> >> >>> outer = [["a", 1], ["b", 2], ["c", 3], ["blah", 1000]]
> >> >>> [inner.append("new value") for inner in outer if inner[0] == "blah"]
> >> [None]
> >> >>> outer
> >> [['a', 1], ['b', 2], ['c', 3], ['blah', 1000, 'new value']]
> >> 
> >> [snip]
> >
> > Arh!!! this is it :)
> >
> > I'm sure i'll regret this line of code in 2 weeks - after i
> > successfully forget what i wanted to achieve :)
> 
> Jokes aside, you should strive to express your intention in your code.
> Be kind to your future self. Write the three-line loop if you want
> in-place modification.
> 
> I use comprehensions a lot, but not to save lines. I might make Peter's
> expression above a four-liner to make its structure more visible:
> 
>   res = [ ( inner + ["new value"]
>             if inner[0] == "blah"
>             else inner )
>           for inner in outer ]
> 
> Maybe.

thank you gentlemen. This is very helpful discussion and i appreciate your explanations - helped a lot.


From frank at chagford.com  Fri Mar  3 00:40:07 2017
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 07:40:07 +0200
Subject: asyncio does not always show the full traceback
In-Reply-To: <CAEfz+Tz8hVwmh5CF17mv3aCcdqThj1AXDDga8UmnZnUUWESbfg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <o93vs2$smi$1@blaine.gmane.org> <o96lk6$o3v$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAEfz+TyUdWJesyttqZg2_ROMPhmJRxqaGA2ULgFQV5QbpiiiXQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <o994og$84k$1@blaine.gmane.org> <o995g5$ojc$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAEfz+Tz8hVwmh5CF17mv3aCcdqThj1AXDDga8UmnZnUUWESbfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <o9avjm$pcu$1@blaine.gmane.org>

"INADA Naoki"  wrote in message 
news:CAEfz+Tz8hVwmh5CF17mv3aCcdqThj1AXDDga8UmnZnUUWESbfg at mail.gmail.com...

> > For completeness, if I place '1/0' in aenum(), I get exactly the same
> > traceback as the first one above.
> >
>
> I can't reproduce it too.
> Did you 3.6.0 this time?  Or did you used 3.6b4 again?
> Please don't use beta when asking question or reporting bug.
>

My humble apologies. I had downloaded 3.6.0 for Windows, and I really 
thought I had installed it, but I was running 3.6.0b4 on Windows as well :-(

I confirm that after downloading and installing the correct version on both 
platforms, the problem no longer exists.

Sorry for wasting your time.

Frank





From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Mar  3 01:19:00 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 17:19:00 +1100
Subject: Python3.6 a little conundrum
In-Reply-To: <Qz7uA.14379$nT1.13632@fx44.am4>
References: <C_ZtA.16397$p41.13139@fx21.am4>
 <CAPTjJmrDcWXdF=Dbbi94UGB0HTp9SW1nY--RmnTUrSPennCLCg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1488483247.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <Qz7uA.14379$nT1.13632@fx44.am4>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq5zSi0Tu5Dw=5YZuiQ3G+PSm3ZBk9AgcW6Tj9rcpiE=w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 4:56 PM, Gilmeh Serda
<gilmeh.serdah at nothing.here.invalid> wrote:
> I'll check if I can get that into the mix, eventually. Python's already
> installed, so I guess I have to backtrack to remove it. Further
> investigation required.

You didn't install, so you should be able to rerun ./configure and
make to rebuild with new libraries.

BTW, once you get the code built to your liking, I would recommend running this:

$ sudo make altinstall

That will install as python3.6 without replacing the symlink python3,
so whatever your system Python 3 is, it'll still be there, untouched.
And regardless of whether you use "make install" or "make altinstall",
your Python 2.7 won't be affected.

ChrisA


From murthy919 at gmail.com  Fri Mar  3 07:52:33 2017
From: murthy919 at gmail.com (Murthy Jn)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 04:52:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Insert blob data from one db to other db in oracle
In-Reply-To: <6590d3ae-ce09-49dd-a458-fcce1a449e64@googlegroups.com>
References: <d1e66434-f100-49e6-8073-d1685c0a79a7@googlegroups.com>
 <6590d3ae-ce09-49dd-a458-fcce1a449e64@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dd744f6c-d293-43d6-8535-9210d5f5a41d@googlegroups.com>

No One don't no ? how to insert data from one table to another table using oracle?


From mal at europython.eu  Fri Mar  3 07:58:25 2017
From: mal at europython.eu (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 13:58:25 +0100
Subject: EuroPython 2017: Official dates available
Message-ID: <4632f626-a379-78bf-035b-bc4a1f26e948@europython.eu>

We are very happy to officially announce the confirmed dates for
EuroPython 2017 in Rimini, Italy:


		   EuroPython 2017: July 9-16 2017

		 *** http://ep2017.europython.eu/ ***


The conference will be held at the Rimini PalaCongressi and structured
as follows:

 * July 9 - Workshops and Beginners? Day
 * July 10-14 - Conference and training days
 * July 15-16 - Sprints

Conference tickets will allow attending Beginners? Day, keynotes,
talks, trainings, poster sessions, interactive sessions, panels and
sprints.

Please subscribe to our various EuroPython channels for updates on the
conference. We will start putting out more information about the
conference in the coming days.

Enjoy,
?
EuroPython 2017 Team
http://ep2017.europython.eu/
http://www.europython-society.org/


PS: Please forward or retweet to help us reach all interested parties:
https://twitter.com/europython/status/837641810994397184
Thanks.


From g.starck at gmail.com  Fri Mar  3 08:06:45 2017
From: g.starck at gmail.com (gst)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 05:06:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: asyncio does not always show the full traceback
In-Reply-To: <mailman.94.1488290520.2612.python-list@python.org>
References: <o93vs2$smi$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.94.1488290520.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e6094a61-864f-4b44-9fe7-6b585d9a2c78@googlegroups.com>

Le mercredi 1 mars 2017 09:25:48 UTC-5, Frank Millman a ?crit?:
> "Frank Millman"  wrote in message news:o93vs2$smi$1 at blaine.gmane.org...


SNIP


> 
> If you run this as is, it works.
> 
> I added '1/0' at various points, to force an exception.
> 
> If I put it in main() or in aenum(), I do not get the full traceback.
> 
> If I put it in aenumerate() or in gen(), I do get the traceback.
> 


Hi,

I ran your snippet, using 3.6 under Linux, and get the correct (imo) full traceback in all cases : 


ZeroDivisionError                         Traceback (most recent call last)
<ipython-input-4-2068e4a933e4> in <module>()
     25 
     26 loop = asyncio.get_event_loop()
---> 27 loop.run_until_complete(main())

/opt/softs/python/3.6/lib/python3.6/asyncio/base_events.py in run_until_complete(self, future)
    464             raise RuntimeError('Event loop stopped before Future completed.')
    465 
--> 466         return future.result()
    467 
    468     def stop(self):

<ipython-input-4-2068e4a933e4> in main()
     22 
     23 async def main():
---> 24     await aenum()
     25 
     26 loop = asyncio.get_event_loop()

<ipython-input-4-2068e4a933e4> in aenum()
     14 
     15 async def aenum():
---> 16     1/0
     17     g = gen(5)
     18     async for a, x in aenumerate(g):

ZeroDivisionError: division by zero

In [5]: 



BUT !

There is one time where I got a RuntimeError, and it's with 1/0 placed inside aenumerate() (after the yield) :


In [8]: 
   ...: import asyncio 
   ...: from itertools import count 
   ...: 
   ...: async def aenumerate(aiterable): 
   ...:     counter = count() 
   ...:     async for x in aiterable: 
   ...:         yield next(counter), x 
   ...:         await asyncio.sleep(0.5) 
   ...:         1/0
   ...: 
   ...: async def gen(n): 
   ...:     for i in range(100, 100+n): 
   ...:         yield i 
   ...: 
   ...: async def aenum(): 
   ...:     g = gen(5) 
   ...:     async for a, x in aenumerate(g): 
   ...:         print(a, x)
   ...:     print('done') 
   ...: 
   ...: async def main(): 
   ...:     
   ...:     await aenum() 
   ...: 
   ...: loop = asyncio.get_event_loop() 
   ...: loop.run_until_complete(main()) 
   ...: 
0 100
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
RuntimeError                              Traceback (most recent call last)
<ipython-input-8-0132c3d8fdfa> in <module>()
     25 
     26 loop = asyncio.get_event_loop()
---> 27 loop.run_until_complete(main())

/opt/softs/python/3.6/lib/python3.6/asyncio/base_events.py in run_until_complete(self, future)
    462         future.remove_done_callback(_run_until_complete_cb)
    463         if not future.done():
--> 464             raise RuntimeError('Event loop stopped before Future completed.')
    465 
    466         return future.result()

RuntimeError: Event loop stopped before Future completed.

In [9]: 


I tried reproducing it but couldn't. Other trials now always show the full traceback up to the 1/0 expression.

Not sure this helps you though..


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Fri Mar  3 12:13:04 2017
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 17:13:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Odd wording it docs for shutil.move?
Message-ID: <o9c870$g8l$1@blaine.gmane.org>

At https://docs.python.org/2/library/shutil.html it says:

 shutil.move(src, dst)

    Recursively move a file or directory (src) to another location
    (dst).

    [...]

    If the destination is on the current filesystem, then os.rename()
    is used. Otherwise, src is copied (using shutil.copy2()) to dst
    and then removed.

What does the current filesystem have to do with anything?

Surely, what matters is whether <src> and <dst> are on the same
filesystem?

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Now we can become
                                  at               alcoholics!
                              gmail.com            



From kwpolska at gmail.com  Fri Mar  3 12:22:04 2017
From: kwpolska at gmail.com (Chris Warrick)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 18:22:04 +0100
Subject: Odd wording it docs for shutil.move?
In-Reply-To: <o9c870$g8l$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <o9c870$g8l$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAMw+j7+Ws0omoRWRSeBza9r-1R58E3+fm93sZ4-0PFQdqUrGUw@mail.gmail.com>

On 3 March 2017 at 18:13, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
> At https://docs.python.org/2/library/shutil.html it says:
>
>  shutil.move(src, dst)
>
>     Recursively move a file or directory (src) to another location
>     (dst).
>
>     [...]
>
>     If the destination is on the current filesystem, then os.rename()
>     is used. Otherwise, src is copied (using shutil.copy2()) to dst
>     and then removed.
>
> What does the current filesystem have to do with anything?
>
> Surely, what matters is whether <src> and <dst> are on the same
> filesystem?

For the same reason it matters for /bin/mv. If the source and target
are on the same filesystem, the files are just renamed, which is
usually instantaneous (only file metadata needs to be changed). But if
they are on different filesystems, ?move? really means ?copy and
delete original?, which takes much longer.

>From macOS/BSD manpages, mv(1):
     As the rename(2) call does not work across file systems, mv uses
cp(1) and rm(1) to accomplish the move.

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mv

-- 
Chris Warrick <https://chriswarrick.com/>
PGP: 5EAAEA16


From rhodri at kynesim.co.uk  Fri Mar  3 12:27:29 2017
From: rhodri at kynesim.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 17:27:29 +0000
Subject: Odd wording it docs for shutil.move?
In-Reply-To: <CAMw+j7+Ws0omoRWRSeBza9r-1R58E3+fm93sZ4-0PFQdqUrGUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <o9c870$g8l$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAMw+j7+Ws0omoRWRSeBza9r-1R58E3+fm93sZ4-0PFQdqUrGUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c1eb4e33-4193-ce89-6952-fce1b55a6209@kynesim.co.uk>

On 03/03/17 17:22, Chris Warrick wrote:
> On 3 March 2017 at 18:13, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
>> At https://docs.python.org/2/library/shutil.html it says:
>>
>>  shutil.move(src, dst)
>>
>>     Recursively move a file or directory (src) to another location
>>     (dst).
>>
>>     [...]
>>
>>     If the destination is on the current filesystem, then os.rename()
>>     is used. Otherwise, src is copied (using shutil.copy2()) to dst
>>     and then removed.
>>
>> What does the current filesystem have to do with anything?
>>
>> Surely, what matters is whether <src> and <dst> are on the same
>> filesystem?
>
> For the same reason it matters for /bin/mv. If the source and target
> are on the same filesystem, the files are just renamed, which is
> usually instantaneous (only file metadata needs to be changed). But if
> they are on different filesystems, ?move? really means ?copy and
> delete original?, which takes much longer.

Exactly Grant's point.  The shutil.move documentation talks about the 
*current* filesystem, not the filesystem on which <src> is located.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd


From formisc at gmail.com  Fri Mar  3 13:58:43 2017
From: formisc at gmail.com (Andrew Zyman)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 10:58:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: list of the lists - append after search
In-Reply-To: <b73ae3a1-1297-4304-aae0-63773ca01b24@googlegroups.com>
References: <9b6e552f-5584-4572-9ef6-c5f614ac497a@googlegroups.com>
 <o99h4e$d7b$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.129.1488472042.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <26642604-2a86-4d3a-abeb-0d7491f5ab97@googlegroups.com>
 <o99rc7$m17$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.132.1488482523.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <lf5r32f5u64.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <6c2c8b07-55de-432e-816a-54da65243f52@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5mvd35skg.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <b73ae3a1-1297-4304-aae0-63773ca01b24@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d04ec102-81cf-41d8-97bf-e78f7634d1f1@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 3:53:25 PM UTC-5, Andrew Zyman wrote:
> On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 3:31:36 PM UTC-5, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> > Andrew Zyman writes:
> > 
> > > On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 2:57:02 PM UTC-5, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> > >> Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:
> > >> 
> > >> > Andrew Zyman wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 11:27:34 AM UTC-5, Peter Otten wrote:
> > >> >>> Andrew Zyman wrote:
> > >> >>> .....
> > >> >>> .....
> > >> >>> > End result:
> > >> >>> >  ll =[ [a,1], [b,2], [c,3], [blah, 1000, 'new value'] ]
> > >> >>> 
> > >> >>> >>> outer = [["a", 1], ["b", 2], ["c", 3], ["blah", 1000]]
> > >> >>> >>> for inner in outer:
> > >> >>> ...     if inner[0] == "blah":
> > >> >>> ...         inner.append("new value")
> > >> >> 
> > >> >> thank you. this will do.
> > >> >> Just curious, is the above loop can be done in a one-liner?
> > >> >
> > >> > Ah, that newbie obsession ;)
> > >> >
> > >> >>>> outer = [["a", 1], ["b", 2], ["c", 3], ["blah", 1000]]
> > >> >>>> [inner + ["new value"] if inner[0] == "blah" else inner for inner in 
> > >> > outer]
> > >> > [['a', 1], ['b', 2], ['c', 3], ['blah', 1000, 'new value']]
> > >> >
> > >> > Note that there is a technical difference to be aware of -- matching
> > >> > lists are replaced rather than modified.
> > >> 
> > >> I take it you are too sane, or too kind, to suggest the obvious
> > >> solution:
> > >> 
> > >> >>> outer = [["a", 1], ["b", 2], ["c", 3], ["blah", 1000]]
> > >> >>> [inner.append("new value") for inner in outer if inner[0] == "blah"]
> > >> [None]
> > >> >>> outer
> > >> [['a', 1], ['b', 2], ['c', 3], ['blah', 1000, 'new value']]
> > >> 
> > >> [snip]
> > >
> > > Arh!!! this is it :)
> > >
> > > I'm sure i'll regret this line of code in 2 weeks - after i
> > > successfully forget what i wanted to achieve :)
> > 
> > Jokes aside, you should strive to express your intention in your code.
> > Be kind to your future self. Write the three-line loop if you want
> > in-place modification.
> > 
> > I use comprehensions a lot, but not to save lines. I might make Peter's
> > expression above a four-liner to make its structure more visible:
> > 
> >   res = [ ( inner + ["new value"]
> >             if inner[0] == "blah"
> >             else inner )
> >           for inner in outer ]
> > 
> > Maybe.
> 
> thank you gentlemen. This is very helpful discussion and i appreciate your explanations - helped a lot.


Well, i'll take my earlier statement ( about using lists ) back . 100K search/expend on list is taking way too much time ( over 4 minutes ).  i'll follow your advice and move the processing to dict.
Thanx again.


From eryksun at gmail.com  Fri Mar  3 16:05:46 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2017 21:05:46 +0000
Subject: Odd wording it docs for shutil.move?
In-Reply-To: <o9c870$g8l$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <o9c870$g8l$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CACL+1asKZayHhCeEN5wi3bdtq6EThPyPF5yWp7yaoKfc5K0owQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 5:13 PM, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
> At https://docs.python.org/2/library/shutil.html it says:
>
>  shutil.move(src, dst)
>
>     Recursively move a file or directory (src) to another location
>     (dst).
>
>     [...]
>
>     If the destination is on the current filesystem, then os.rename()
>     is used. Otherwise, src is copied (using shutil.copy2()) to dst
>     and then removed.
>
> What does the current filesystem have to do with anything?
>
> Surely, what matters is whether <src> and <dst> are on the same
> filesystem?

The source filesystem was probably the current filesystem in the OP's
thinking, in which case it made sense at the time of writing. Open an
issue if you want to improve the docs with better phrasing.

In Python 2 on Windows, os.rename can move a file across filesystems,
but this is no longer the case in 3.3+ on Windows. Also, os.rename
never replaces an existing file on Windows. (shutil.move should be
using os.replace in Python 3.) It would be more accurate in general if
the shutil.move docs stated only that os.rename is used if the
operation is allowed.


From rambiusparkisanius at gmail.com  Fri Mar  3 23:16:59 2017
From: rambiusparkisanius at gmail.com (Ivan "Rambius" Ivanov)
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2017 06:16:59 +0200
Subject: Getting stdout and stderr from subprocess in correct order
Message-ID: <CAE9rwzPFh3vw=Qh7rEB=+6yXe3bVrZf+T4vPdgWKOaCfuo0CdA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear colleagues,

I using subprocess module and I am wondering how I can get the output
of the spawned process's stdout and stderr in the right order. Here
are my sample programs:

$ cat subprc.py
import subprocess
import sys

f = 'hw.py'
p = subprocess.run([sys.executable, f], stdout=subprocess.PIPE,
stderr=subprocess.PIPE)
print(p.stdout)
print(p.stderr)

$ cat hw.py
import sys

print("a", file=sys.stdout)
print("b", file=sys.stderr)
print("c", file=sys.stdout)
print("d", file=sys.stderr)

When i run hw.py I get

$ ./hw.py
a
b
c
d

When I run it through subprc.py, I do get standard out and standard
errors streams, but they are separated and not in the order above:

$ ./subprc.py
b'a\nc\n'
b'b\nd\n'

How should I use subprocess in order to get the outputs in the correct
order? Thank you for your help in advance.

Regards
Rambius

-- 
Tangra Mega Rock: http://www.radiotangra.com


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Mar  4 00:17:30 2017
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2017 16:17:30 +1100
Subject: Getting stdout and stderr from subprocess in correct order
References: <CAE9rwzPFh3vw=Qh7rEB=+6yXe3bVrZf+T4vPdgWKOaCfuo0CdA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85lgslk4d1.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

"Ivan \"Rambius\" Ivanov" <rambiusparkisanius at gmail.com> writes:

> When I run it through subprc.py, I do get standard out and standard
> errors streams, but they are separated and not in the order above

That's right. You have two entirely distinct streams, they don't attempt
to co-ordinate and none of the information in the stream inherently
relates to any other stream.

Note that your experience:

> When i run hw.py I get
>
> $ ./hw.py
> a
> b
> c
> d

is not something your program has access to. For all that it knows, you
could be redirecting each stream to separate files::

    $ ./hw.py 1> foo.out 2> bar.out

and then the absence of any relation between the content in each stream
becomes more obvious.

> How should I use subprocess in order to get the outputs in the correct
> order?

The ?correct? order is something additional that you're wanting to
impose. So you'll need to define that yourself.

If you want some correspondence between the content in different
streams, you will need to decide for yourself what that correspondence
will be.

One obvious way to do it is to put a timestamp as part of the content
written to each stream::

    print(
        "{timestamp}: a".format(timestamp=datetime.datetime.now()),
        file=sys.stdout)

Then, the ordering of content in the output can be inferred later by
comparing the timestamps.

If that's of interest, you should probably stop using plain ?print? and
instead look into the ?logging? module, which has good support for
multiple streams, timestamped messages, and many other related things
<URL:http://docs.python.org/3/library/logging.html>.

-- 
 \     ?We live in capitalism. Its power seems inescapable. So did the |
  `\   divine right of kings.? ?Ursula K. LeGuin, National Book Awards |
_o__)                                    acceptance speech, 2014-11-19 |
Ben Finney



From dieter at handshake.de  Sat Mar  4 03:55:30 2017
From: dieter at handshake.de (dieter)
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2017 09:55:30 +0100
Subject: Getting stdout and stderr from subprocess in correct order
References: <CAE9rwzPFh3vw=Qh7rEB=+6yXe3bVrZf+T4vPdgWKOaCfuo0CdA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87lgsla0al.fsf@handshake.de>

"Ivan \"Rambius\" Ivanov" <rambiusparkisanius at gmail.com> writes:
> ...
> I using subprocess module and I am wondering how I can get the output
> of the spawned process's stdout and stderr in the right order. Here
> are my sample programs:
>
> $ cat subprc.py
> import subprocess
> import sys
>
> f = 'hw.py'
> p = subprocess.run([sys.executable, f], stdout=subprocess.PIPE,
> stderr=subprocess.PIPE)
> print(p.stdout)
> print(p.stderr)
> ...
> How should I use subprocess in order to get the outputs in the correct
> order? Thank you for your help in advance.

If the order really is important and it is not important
from which stream the data comes, then you can try
to map "stdout" and "stderr" to the same file.
Note that this still may not give you the hoped for result:
"stderr" is typically written unbuffered, "stdout" is typically written
either "line buffered" (output to a terminal) or "fully buffered".
Thus, you can see "stdout" output only after the buffer content is
given over to the operationg system (when the buffer is full, explicitely
flushed or the file closed).

To do this with "subprocess", you need to create a pipe
outside the "subprocess.run" (--> "r_fd, w_fd = os.pipe()")
and pass the output part ("w_fd") to the "run".
You can then read the input part ("r_fd"). Note, that
the "*_fd" are file descriptors (represented as integers), not
Python "file" objects. You can use either "os.read" (to read the
input directly) or "os.fdopen" (to turn a file descriptor into a Python
file object).

Alternatively, you can spawn two threads for reading input from
"stdout" and "stderr", respectively - as soon as one becomes
available and merge them in a data structure of your own.
Then, you can tag the data with an indication from which stream
the output came.
Note, the remarks about buffering in the first paragraphe of my response
(you can read only what has been previously given over to the operating
system -- things still in an output buffer cannot be accessed).





From piet-l at pietvanoostrum.com  Sat Mar  4 10:37:27 2017
From: piet-l at pietvanoostrum.com (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2017 16:37:27 +0100
Subject: Getting stdout and stderr from subprocess in correct order
References: <CAE9rwzPFh3vw=Qh7rEB=+6yXe3bVrZf+T4vPdgWKOaCfuo0CdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.143.1488601282.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lx4lz9dpe0.fsf@cochabamba.vanoostrum.org>

"Ivan \"Rambius\" Ivanov" <rambiusparkisanius at gmail.com> writes:

> Dear colleagues,
>
> I using subprocess module and I am wondering how I can get the output
> of the spawned process's stdout and stderr in the right order. Here
> are my sample programs:
>
> $ cat subprc.py
> import subprocess
> import sys
>
> f = 'hw.py'
> p = subprocess.run([sys.executable, f], stdout=subprocess.PIPE,
> stderr=subprocess.PIPE)
> print(p.stdout)
> print(p.stderr)
>
> $ cat hw.py
> import sys
>
> print("a", file=sys.stdout)
> print("b", file=sys.stderr)
> print("c", file=sys.stdout)
> print("d", file=sys.stderr)
>
> When i run hw.py I get
>
> $ ./hw.py
> a
> b
> c
> d
>
> When I run it through subprc.py, I do get standard out and standard
> errors streams, but they are separated and not in the order above:
>
> $ ./subprc.py
> b'a\nc\n'
> b'b\nd\n'
>
> How should I use subprocess in order to get the outputs in the correct
> order? Thank you for your help in advance.
>
If you want them in the order they are produced then you have to put
them through a single channel with stderr=subprocess.STDOUT.

p = subprocess.run([sys.executable, f], stdout=subprocess.PIPE,
stderr=subprocess.STDOUT, encoding='ascii')

I added an encoding so that it will be read as a text file rather than
binary. And of course you should read only stdout (stderr will give
None)

Moreover you must make sure that each write is flushed. This can be done
in three ways:

1. Add the flush=True argument to the print statements.
print("a", file=sys.stdout, flush=True)
print("b", file=sys.stderr, flush=True)
print("c", file=sys.stdout, flush=True)
print("d", file=sys.stderr, flush=True)

2. Change the files to a line buffered version.
import os
sys.stdout = os.fdopen(sys.stdout.fileno(), 'w', 1)
sys.stderr = os.fdopen(sys.stderr.fileno(), 'w', 1)

3. Add a flush() call after each print statement, like
sys.stdout.flush()

Then you get them in order.
$ python3 subprc.py
a
b
c
d

Of course you won't be able to tell from which stream each line comes.
The streams are byte streams, not message streams. You would have to put
extra information, e.g. a prefix, in your print statements.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet-l at pietvanoostrum.com>
WWW: http://pietvanoostrum.com/
PGP key: [8DAE142BE17999C4]


From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Sat Mar  4 11:22:34 2017
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2017 08:22:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: FYI: Removing posts with All Cap Authors
Message-ID: <52cca5af-5b8e-4be9-b0e9-370f66dcd793@googlegroups.com>

I mostly just lurk and view the post titles to see if something interesting is being discussed. This code gets me a web page without the spam. You need to compile it to a pyc file and create a bookmark. Probably not useful for most people who don't use their browsers the way I do, but here it is.

# remove authors with mostly caps


import urllib2
import webbrowser
import os
from bs4 import BeautifulSoup

USERAGENTBASE = 'Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:40.0) Gecko/20100101 '
BROWSERPATH = 'C:\\"Program Files"\\Waterfox\\waterfox.exe'
FILENAME = 'C:\\PyStuff\\pygroup.htm'
WEBPAGE = "https://groups.google.com/forum/?_escaped_fragment_=forum/comp.lang.python"

def getUserAgentVersion():
    """ get the useragent version
        returns agentVersion
        -- user agent version in format Firefox/51.0.1 Waterfox/51.0.1
    """
    bvers = os.popen(BROWSERPATH + " -v").read()
    bversList = bvers.split()
    agentVersion = 'Firefox/' + bversList[2] + ' ' + bversList[1] + '/' + bversList[2]
    return agentVersion    

def getwebpage(url):
    """ Open a webpage 
    url --  the url to the webpage
    returns 
    page -- the source for the webpage
    """
    user_agent = USERAGENTBASE + getUserAgentVersion()
    headers = { 'User-Agent' : user_agent }
    req = urllib2.Request(url, None, headers)
    response = urllib2.urlopen(req)
    page = response.read()
    return page

def removeAllCaps(html_doc):
    """ Remove posts from google group by authors that is mostly caps
    html_doc -- an html document
    """
    
    soup = BeautifulSoup(html_doc)
    #print soup.prettify()
    post = soup.find("tr")
    while post is not None:
        author = post.find("td", "author")
        print author
        aname = author.get_text()
        numCaps = 1.0 * sum(1 for c in aname if c.isupper())
        ratio = numCaps/(1.0*len(aname))
        print ratio
        oldpost = post
        post = post.find_next_sibling('tr')
        if ratio > 0.7:
            oldpost.decompose()
            print "BIG"
        
    f = open(FILENAME, 'w')
    f.write(soup.prettify().encode('ascii', 'ignore'))
    f.close()
    
         
def main():
    html_doc = getwebpage(WEBPAGE)
    removeAllCaps(html_doc)
    webbrowser.open(FILENAME)
    print 'done'
    
if __name__ == "__main__":
    main()    
    




From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Mar  4 11:30:50 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2017 03:30:50 +1100
Subject: FYI: Removing posts with All Cap Authors
In-Reply-To: <52cca5af-5b8e-4be9-b0e9-370f66dcd793@googlegroups.com>
References: <52cca5af-5b8e-4be9-b0e9-370f66dcd793@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp=4PJXnjSRqxBknF0j31itCc7noYRmz2ftyc+1=oywOg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 3:22 AM, Wanderer <wanderer at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> I mostly just lurk and view the post titles to see if something interesting is being discussed. This code gets me a web page without the spam. You need to compile it to a pyc file and create a bookmark. Probably not useful for most people who don't use their browsers the way I do, but here it is.
>
> # remove authors with mostly caps
>
> USERAGENTBASE = 'Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:40.0) Gecko/20100101 '
> BROWSERPATH = 'C:\\"Program Files"\\Waterfox\\waterfox.exe'
> FILENAME = 'C:\\PyStuff\\pygroup.htm'
> WEBPAGE = "https://groups.google.com/forum/?_escaped_fragment_=forum/comp.lang.python"
>

Interesting. Any particular reason to screen-scrape Google Groups
rather than start with the netnews protocol? You can get a
machine-readable version of the newsgroup much more simply that way, I
would have thought.

ChrisA


From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Sat Mar  4 11:37:24 2017
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2017 08:37:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: FYI: Removing posts with All Cap Authors
In-Reply-To: <mailman.146.1488645054.2612.python-list@python.org>
References: <52cca5af-5b8e-4be9-b0e9-370f66dcd793@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmp=4PJXnjSRqxBknF0j31itCc7noYRmz2ftyc+1=oywOg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.146.1488645054.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dc25fac5-14f7-4c70-84a0-820e43eb8c27@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 11:31:13 AM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 3:22 AM, Wanderer wrote:
> > I mostly just lurk and view the post titles to see if something interesting is being discussed. This code gets me a web page without the spam. You need to compile it to a pyc file and create a bookmark. Probably not useful for most people who don't use their browsers the way I do, but here it is.
> >
> > # remove authors with mostly caps
> >
> > USERAGENTBASE = 'Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:40.0) Gecko/20100101 '
> > BROWSERPATH = 'C:\\"Program Files"\\Waterfox\\waterfox.exe'
> > FILENAME = 'C:\\PyStuff\\pygroup.htm'
> > WEBPAGE = "https://groups.google.com/forum/?_escaped_fragment_=forum/comp.lang.python"
> >
> 
> Interesting. Any particular reason to screen-scrape Google Groups
> rather than start with the netnews protocol? You can get a
> machine-readable version of the newsgroup much more simply that way, I
> would have thought.
> 
> ChrisA

I don't know what a netnews protocol is. I use Google Groups to look at usenet.


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  4 11:48:03 2017
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2017 08:48:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: FYI: Removing posts with All Cap Authors
In-Reply-To: <dc25fac5-14f7-4c70-84a0-820e43eb8c27@googlegroups.com>
References: <52cca5af-5b8e-4be9-b0e9-370f66dcd793@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmp=4PJXnjSRqxBknF0j31itCc7noYRmz2ftyc+1=oywOg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.146.1488645054.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <dc25fac5-14f7-4c70-84a0-820e43eb8c27@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2e94d6d5-9468-4142-a502-d3cc36d6fdc5@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 9:37:35 AM UTC-7, Wanderer wrote:
> On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 11:31:13 AM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 3:22 AM, Wanderer wrote:
> > > I mostly just lurk and view the post titles to see if something interesting is being discussed. This code gets me a web page without the spam. You need to compile it to a pyc file and create a bookmark. Probably not useful for most people who don't use their browsers the way I do, but here it is.
> > >
> > > # remove authors with mostly caps
> > >
> > > USERAGENTBASE = 'Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:40.0) Gecko/20100101 '
> > > BROWSERPATH = 'C:\\"Program Files"\\Waterfox\\waterfox.exe'
> > > FILENAME = 'C:\\PyStuff\\pygroup.htm'
> > > WEBPAGE = "https://groups.google.com/forum/?_escaped_fragment_=forum/comp.lang.python"
> > >
> > 
> > Interesting. Any particular reason to screen-scrape Google Groups
> > rather than start with the netnews protocol? You can get a
> > machine-readable version of the newsgroup much more simply that way, I
> > would have thought.
> > 
> > ChrisA
> 
> I don't know what a netnews protocol is. I use Google Groups to look at usenet.

As a lot of us do.


From rambiusparkisanius at gmail.com  Sat Mar  4 14:41:08 2017
From: rambiusparkisanius at gmail.com (Ivan "Rambius" Ivanov)
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2017 21:41:08 +0200
Subject: Getting stdout and stderr from subprocess in correct order
In-Reply-To: <lx4lz9dpe0.fsf@cochabamba.vanoostrum.org>
References: <CAE9rwzPFh3vw=Qh7rEB=+6yXe3bVrZf+T4vPdgWKOaCfuo0CdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.143.1488601282.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <lx4lz9dpe0.fsf@cochabamba.vanoostrum.org>
Message-ID: <CAE9rwzMC=D1jxDWHcTRcAdA9kdqKxRMxPge0sd84s=+=EjEEqw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Thank you all for your suggestions. I will see what will apply to my use case.

Regards
Rambius

On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Piet van Oostrum
<piet-l at pietvanoostrum.com> wrote:
> "Ivan \"Rambius\" Ivanov" <rambiusparkisanius at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Dear colleagues,
>>
>> I using subprocess module and I am wondering how I can get the output
>> of the spawned process's stdout and stderr in the right order. Here
>> are my sample programs:
>>
>> $ cat subprc.py
>> import subprocess
>> import sys
>>
>> f = 'hw.py'
>> p = subprocess.run([sys.executable, f], stdout=subprocess.PIPE,
>> stderr=subprocess.PIPE)
>> print(p.stdout)
>> print(p.stderr)
>>
>> $ cat hw.py
>> import sys
>>
>> print("a", file=sys.stdout)
>> print("b", file=sys.stderr)
>> print("c", file=sys.stdout)
>> print("d", file=sys.stderr)
>>
>> When i run hw.py I get
>>
>> $ ./hw.py
>> a
>> b
>> c
>> d
>>
>> When I run it through subprc.py, I do get standard out and standard
>> errors streams, but they are separated and not in the order above:
>>
>> $ ./subprc.py
>> b'a\nc\n'
>> b'b\nd\n'
>>
>> How should I use subprocess in order to get the outputs in the correct
>> order? Thank you for your help in advance.
>>
> If you want them in the order they are produced then you have to put
> them through a single channel with stderr=subprocess.STDOUT.
>
> p = subprocess.run([sys.executable, f], stdout=subprocess.PIPE,
> stderr=subprocess.STDOUT, encoding='ascii')
>
> I added an encoding so that it will be read as a text file rather than
> binary. And of course you should read only stdout (stderr will give
> None)
>
> Moreover you must make sure that each write is flushed. This can be done
> in three ways:
>
> 1. Add the flush=True argument to the print statements.
> print("a", file=sys.stdout, flush=True)
> print("b", file=sys.stderr, flush=True)
> print("c", file=sys.stdout, flush=True)
> print("d", file=sys.stderr, flush=True)
>
> 2. Change the files to a line buffered version.
> import os
> sys.stdout = os.fdopen(sys.stdout.fileno(), 'w', 1)
> sys.stderr = os.fdopen(sys.stderr.fileno(), 'w', 1)
>
> 3. Add a flush() call after each print statement, like
> sys.stdout.flush()
>
> Then you get them in order.
> $ python3 subprc.py
> a
> b
> c
> d
>
> Of course you won't be able to tell from which stream each line comes.
> The streams are byte streams, not message streams. You would have to put
> extra information, e.g. a prefix, in your print statements.
> --
> Piet van Oostrum <piet-l at pietvanoostrum.com>
> WWW: http://pietvanoostrum.com/
> PGP key: [8DAE142BE17999C4]
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



-- 
Tangra Mega Rock: http://www.radiotangra.com


From pkpearson at nowhere.invalid  Sat Mar  4 16:05:46 2017
From: pkpearson at nowhere.invalid (Peter Pearson)
Date: 4 Mar 2017 21:05:46 GMT
Subject: FYI: Removing posts with All Cap Authors
References: <52cca5af-5b8e-4be9-b0e9-370f66dcd793@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmp=4PJXnjSRqxBknF0j31itCc7noYRmz2ftyc+1=oywOg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.146.1488645054.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <dc25fac5-14f7-4c70-84a0-820e43eb8c27@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ei0ohaFati8U1@mid.individual.net>

On Sat, 4 Mar 2017 08:37:24 -0800 (PST), Wanderer wrote:
>
> I don't know what a netnews protocol is. I use Google Groups to look
> at usenet.

Just in case you're interested, the Network News Transfer Protocol, NNTP,
is used to distribute posts over Usenet, a worldwide system for passing
messages among computers that appeared in 1980.  Since many of us are
still using it to follow newsgroups, Lo, 37 years later, it must surely
have succeeded beyond its creators' wildest hopes.  I suspect I'm not
the only fossil here who gets kinda misty contemplating NNTP's history.

-- 
To email me, substitute nowhere->runbox, invalid->com.


From bilmar19 at gmail.com  Sat Mar  4 18:08:15 2017
From: bilmar19 at gmail.com (bilmar19 at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2017 15:08:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Basic Packaging strategy question
Message-ID: <ed89f49b-4875-4458-a0d2-a764bccf2638@googlegroups.com>

I have a simple project that I want to package to put it on another machine but everything I have read so far about packaging ends up putting the whole install alongside  with 'packages' - typically in .../site-packages. 
This seems a strange place to launch an app from!

So, if I have an app with a main.py entry point is it ok for everything to be in .../site-packages/myproject?
Or, should I put everything except main.py in a package and then copy main.py wherever I want and use PIP to install the package containing the rest of the app?
 

simple example which ends up with needing to run:
 python /usr/local/lib/site_packages/myproject/main.py:

myproject
  setup.py
  myproject
    __init__.py
    main.py
    utils.py
    config.py


Is this the right way to go?

Thanks

Bill
  


From rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com  Sat Mar  4 21:11:02 2017
From: rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com (Rick Johnson)
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2017 18:11:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: FYI: Removing posts with All Cap Authors
In-Reply-To: <ei0ohaFati8U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <52cca5af-5b8e-4be9-b0e9-370f66dcd793@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmp=4PJXnjSRqxBknF0j31itCc7noYRmz2ftyc+1=oywOg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.146.1488645054.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <dc25fac5-14f7-4c70-84a0-820e43eb8c27@googlegroups.com>
 <ei0ohaFati8U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <adfa8d43-d032-406d-a1a9-95f54c3dcf6f@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 3:05:57 PM UTC-6, Peter Pearson wrote:
> I suspect I'm not the only fossil here who gets kinda
> misty contemplating NNTP's history.

Yeah. Well... Python-list has developed quite a reputation
within usenet antiquities circles for its highly coveted
collection of rare artifacts and strange oddities. A
perpetual freak show of sorts, suspended precariously in the
"goldilocks zone" somewhere between the heavenly wonders of
Guido's Time Machine and the absolute madness of
ZeroDivisionError.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Mar  4 21:17:19 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2017 13:17:19 +1100
Subject: FYI: Removing posts with All Cap Authors
In-Reply-To: <adfa8d43-d032-406d-a1a9-95f54c3dcf6f@googlegroups.com>
References: <52cca5af-5b8e-4be9-b0e9-370f66dcd793@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmp=4PJXnjSRqxBknF0j31itCc7noYRmz2ftyc+1=oywOg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.146.1488645054.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <dc25fac5-14f7-4c70-84a0-820e43eb8c27@googlegroups.com>
 <ei0ohaFati8U1@mid.individual.net>
 <adfa8d43-d032-406d-a1a9-95f54c3dcf6f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr-gNOZ-MiZGL6J0BXs-EqgxhBGiS1cdZ+D0mNZcYaOEw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 1:11 PM, Rick Johnson
<rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 3:05:57 PM UTC-6, Peter Pearson wrote:
>> I suspect I'm not the only fossil here who gets kinda
>> misty contemplating NNTP's history.
>
> Yeah. Well... Python-list has developed quite a reputation
> within usenet antiquities circles for its highly coveted
> collection of rare artifacts and strange oddities. A
> perpetual freak show of sorts, suspended precariously in the
> "goldilocks zone" somewhere between the heavenly wonders of
> Guido's Time Machine and the absolute madness of
> ZeroDivisionError.

And "Ranting Rick Johnson" definitely counts as one of the freaks.

ChrisA


From pavel.aronsky at gmail.com  Sat Mar  4 21:35:38 2017
From: pavel.aronsky at gmail.com (ddbug)
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2017 18:35:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to access installed scripts on Windows?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2.1487464860.24725.python-list@python.org>
References: <d0da325d-7e42-44ee-ae16-087462858842@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1au3_+-Kz6oU8fqxe7sEaGR90cVXLni1iQXC8ckxG6j-iQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.2.1487464860.24725.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9dd2791f-5358-479f-b0e9-9e6c91e2e788@googlegroups.com>

Thank you eryk sun for the reply.

I am not so concerned by installing modules as by installing scripts ('entry points'). Per user.

If the Windows GUI installer can add the per-user script dirs to PATH it may be acceptable solution.

> The installer has an option to update PATH to include
> this Scripts directory.
> 

Is this the checkbox on the Advanced Options page, "Add Python to environment variables"?  
 
In my copy of 64-bit v3.6 installer this is UNchecked by default, and the text looks a bit vague. Might read more precise.

> You can also develop using venv virtual environments. You can symlink
> or shell-shortcut to the activation script of a virtual environment.
>

Interesting idea. But I have not seen any installers or guidance how to deploy something packaged as a venv to users. Can you share any pointers please?
 
> I dislike the idea of automatically searching script directories, but
> there could be a command-line option for this.
 
I agree, but the current situation is dire IMHO. One of fundamental Python batteries is leaking :-(

Right now I'm looking at IDLE and trying to figure out whether it can be used to solve this problem (like, run IDLE with a special start script or extension that will make these user-local scripts easy discoverable .... Maybe a extension that adds a new GUI menu etc. )

Regards,
ddbug


From pavel.aronsky at gmail.com  Sat Mar  4 21:50:00 2017
From: pavel.aronsky at gmail.com (ddbug)
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2017 18:50:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Basic Packaging strategy question
In-Reply-To: <ed89f49b-4875-4458-a0d2-a764bccf2638@googlegroups.com>
References: <ed89f49b-4875-4458-a0d2-a764bccf2638@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c00da2a3-5c40-42b2-bd86-4a7ef2a44a46@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 1:08:25 AM UTC+2, bilm... at gmail.com wrote:
> I have a simple project that I want to package to put it on another machine but everything I have read so far about packaging ends up putting the whole install alongside  with 'packages' - typically in .../site-packages. 
> This seems a strange place to launch an app from!
 
If your target OS is Windows - this is the question I have for long time without any good answer
(see this thread: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.python/Gwx6HA83bUE )

There is a zillion ways to specify modules search path, but no good options on Windows to place entry points. One cannot consider dropping entry points in obscure places where user cannot find them, as good. Since on Linux this is not an issue (or much lesser issue) it can be viewed as one of deficiencies of Windows - but otherwise Python has 1st class support for Windows, including the cute py launcher.

> So, if I have an app with a main.py entry point is it ok for everything to be in .../site-packages/myproject?

Nope, site-packages is the place for modules. You're asking about entry points. 

> Or, should I put everything except main.py in a package and then copy main.py wherever I want and use PIP to install the package containing the rest of the app?
>  
> simple example which ends up with needing to run:
>  python /usr/local/lib/site_packages/myproject/main.py:

Placing scripts under modules location is an option, and setuptools can automatically create 'entry points' that bootstrap the actual scripts.
But this does not solve the root issue - where to place these entry points?
 
I have not found a good solution yet.

Regards,

ddbug


From arequipeno at gmail.com  Sun Mar  5 00:09:15 2017
From: arequipeno at gmail.com (Ian Pilcher)
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2017 23:09:15 -0600
Subject: python-daemon and PID files
Message-ID: <o9g6hl$5pc$1@blaine.gmane.org>

Is it possible to get python-daemon to create "systemd style" PID file?

I.e., systemd wants a daemon to write a file with a specific name that
*contains* the PID of the child process.  python-daemon, OTOH, seems to
use its pidfile parameter as more of a lock file.

Currently, I'm creating my PID file manually in the child process, but
systemd complains, because it wants the PID file to exist before the
parent exits.

-- 
========================================================================
Ian Pilcher                                         arequipeno at gmail.com
-------- "I grew up before Mark Zuckerberg invented friendship" --------
========================================================================



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar  5 00:14:58 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2017 16:14:58 +1100
Subject: python-daemon and PID files
In-Reply-To: <o9g6hl$5pc$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <o9g6hl$5pc$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpvgMmjLHcmc0nHXdf-1JGrYxjkbwqy+YzRF7ZZsjPsBA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Ian Pilcher <arequipeno at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is it possible to get python-daemon to create "systemd style" PID file?
>
> I.e., systemd wants a daemon to write a file with a specific name that
> *contains* the PID of the child process.  python-daemon, OTOH, seems to
> use its pidfile parameter as more of a lock file.
>
> Currently, I'm creating my PID file manually in the child process, but
> systemd complains, because it wants the PID file to exist before the
> parent exits.

Why do you need a pidfile? When I get systemd to start a process, I
just have it not fork. Much easier. Forget about python-daemon - just
run your script in the simple and straight-forward way.

(Possibly that'll mean having it do different things depending on
whether it's started from systemd or some other way, but that can be
controlled with a parameter.)

ChrisA


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Sun Mar  5 00:39:52 2017
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2017 21:39:52 -0800
Subject: python-daemon and PID files
In-Reply-To: <o9g6hl$5pc$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <o9g6hl$5pc$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <58BBA4A8.2040602@stoneleaf.us>

On 03/04/2017 09:09 PM, Ian Pilcher wrote:

> Is it possible to get python-daemon to create "systemd style" PID file?
>
> I.e., systemd wants a daemon to write a file with a specific name that
> *contains* the PID of the child process.  python-daemon, OTOH, seems to
> use its pidfile parameter as more of a lock file.
>
> Currently, I'm creating my PID file manually in the child process, but
> systemd complains, because it wants the PID file to exist before the
> parent exits.

I know my library, pandaemonium [1], will allow you to write the pid file complete with the daemon's PID, and I would be 
very surprised if Ben's python-daemon did not also allow that.

Maybe it's just a timing issue -- have you tried having the parent process wait a few seconds to verify the file has 
been created and has the PID before exiting?

--
~Ethan~

[1] https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pandaemonium


From nad at python.org  Sun Mar  5 07:01:30 2017
From: nad at python.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2017 07:01:30 -0500
Subject: [RELEASE] Python 3.6.1rc1 is now available
Message-ID: <50484B0A-BA03-42D0-B5EC-4D8E1CF1BC26@python.org>

On behalf of the Python development community and the Python 3.6 release
team, I would like to announce the availability of Python 3.6.1rc1.
3.6.1rc1 is the first release candidate for Python 3.6.1, the first
maintenance release of Python 3.6.  3.6.0 was released on 2017-12-22
to great interest and now, three months later, we are providing the
first set of bugfixes and documentation updates for it.  While
3.6.1rc1 is a preview release and, thus, not intended for production
environments, we encourage you to explore it and provide feedback
via the Python bug tracker (https://bugs.python.org).  Although it
should be transparent to users of Python, 3.6.1 is the first release
after some major changes to our development process so we ask users
who build Python from source to be on the lookout for any unexpected
differences.

3.6.1 is planned for final release on 2017-03-20 with the next
maintenance release expected to follow in about 3 months.
 
Please see "What?s New In Python 3.6" for more information:

https://docs.python.org/3.6/whatsnew/3.6.html

You can find Python 3.6.1rc1 here:

https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-361rc1/

More information about the 3.6 release schedule can be found here:

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0494/

--
  Ned Deily
  nad at python.org -- []



From arequipeno at gmail.com  Sun Mar  5 07:12:01 2017
From: arequipeno at gmail.com (Ian Pilcher)
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2017 06:12:01 -0600
Subject: python-daemon and PID files
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpvgMmjLHcmc0nHXdf-1JGrYxjkbwqy+YzRF7ZZsjPsBA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <o9g6hl$5pc$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmpvgMmjLHcmc0nHXdf-1JGrYxjkbwqy+YzRF7ZZsjPsBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <o9gvab$qje$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 03/04/2017 11:14 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Why do you need a pidfile? When I get systemd to start a process, I
> just have it not fork. Much easier. Forget about python-daemon - just
> run your script in the simple and straight-forward way.

Because forking daemons was good enough for my grandpappy, and it ought
to be good enough you young whippersnappers today.

In other words ... facepalm.

Thanks!

-- 
========================================================================
Ian Pilcher                                         arequipeno at gmail.com
-------- "I grew up before Mark Zuckerberg invented friendship" --------
========================================================================



From steve.dower at python.org  Sun Mar  5 09:12:19 2017
From: steve.dower at python.org (Steve Dower)
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2017 06:12:19 -0800
Subject: [Python-Dev] [RELEASE] Python 3.6.1rc1 is now available
In-Reply-To: <50484B0A-BA03-42D0-B5EC-4D8E1CF1BC26@python.org>
References: <50484B0A-BA03-42D0-B5EC-4D8E1CF1BC26@python.org>
Message-ID: <E1ckWtu-0004Ra-LV@se2-syd.hostedmail.net.au>

I just want to emphasize that this is a *very* important release to test, as it is the first one made after migrating the project to github.

Please spend a bit of time running it through your normal build/installation steps and let us know at https://bugs.python.org/ if anything seems off.

Top-posted from my Windows Phone

-----Original Message-----
From: "Ned Deily" <nad at python.org>
Sent: ?3/?5/?2017 4:08
To: "python-announce at python.org" <python-announce at python.org>; "python-list at python.org" <python-list at python.org>; "Python-Dev" <python-dev at python.org>; "python-committers" <python-committers at python.org>
Subject: [Python-Dev] [RELEASE] Python 3.6.1rc1 is now available

On behalf of the Python development community and the Python 3.6 release
team, I would like to announce the availability of Python 3.6.1rc1.
3.6.1rc1 is the first release candidate for Python 3.6.1, the first
maintenance release of Python 3.6.  3.6.0 was released on 2017-12-22
to great interest and now, three months later, we are providing the
first set of bugfixes and documentation updates for it.  While
3.6.1rc1 is a preview release and, thus, not intended for production
environments, we encourage you to explore it and provide feedback
via the Python bug tracker (https://bugs.python.org).  Although it
should be transparent to users of Python, 3.6.1 is the first release
after some major changes to our development process so we ask users
who build Python from source to be on the lookout for any unexpected
differences.

3.6.1 is planned for final release on 2017-03-20 with the next
maintenance release expected to follow in about 3 months.
 
Please see "What?s New In Python 3.6" for more information:

https://docs.python.org/3.6/whatsnew/3.6.html

You can find Python 3.6.1rc1 here:

https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-361rc1/

More information about the 3.6 release schedule can be found here:

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0494/

--
  Ned Deily
  nad at python.org -- []

_______________________________________________
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/steve.dower%40python.org


From darcy at vex.net  Sun Mar  5 10:41:07 2017
From: darcy at vex.net (D'Arcy Cain)
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2017 10:41:07 -0500
Subject: [RELEASE] Python 3.6.1rc1 is now available
In-Reply-To: <50484B0A-BA03-42D0-B5EC-4D8E1CF1BC26@python.org>
References: <50484B0A-BA03-42D0-B5EC-4D8E1CF1BC26@python.org>
Message-ID: <9cdc9d93-9015-826f-fa32-cd4c2811f67a@vex.net>

On 2017-03-05 07:01 AM, Ned Deily wrote:
> On behalf of the Python development community and the Python 3.6 release
> team, I would like to announce the availability of Python 3.6.1rc1.
> 3.6.1rc1 is the first release candidate for Python 3.6.1, the first
> maintenance release of Python 3.6.  3.6.0 was released on 2017-12-22

from __future__ import 3.6.0

Did Guido finally get that time machine working?

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain
System Administrator, Vex.Net
http://www.Vex.Net/ IM:darcy at Vex.Net
VoIP: sip:darcy at Vex.Net


From gvmcmt at gmail.com  Sun Mar  5 11:09:01 2017
From: gvmcmt at gmail.com (gvmcmt at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2017 08:09:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: list of the lists - append after search
In-Reply-To: <9b6e552f-5584-4572-9ef6-c5f614ac497a@googlegroups.com>
References: <9b6e552f-5584-4572-9ef6-c5f614ac497a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5a16be92-849d-4ebf-ad17-60790147c4d4@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 9:33:14 PM UTC+5:30, Andrew Zyman wrote:
> Hello,
>  please advise.
> 
>  I'd like search and append the internal list in the list-of-the-lists.
> 
> Example:
>  ll =[ [a,1], [b,2], [c,3], [blah, 1000] ]
> 
>  i want to search for the internal [] based on the string field and, if matches, append that list with a value.
> 
>   if internal_list[0] == 'blah':
>       ll[ internal_list].append = [ 'new value']
> 
> End result:
>  ll =[ [a,1], [b,2], [c,3], [blah, 1000, 'new value'] ]
> 
> 
> I came up with the following, but the second stmnt is not correct:
> 
> print [x for x in ll if x[0]== 'blah']
> print ll.index([x for x in ll if x[0]=='blah'])
> 
> output:
> ValueError: [['blah', 1]] is not in list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thank you
> AZ


list_of_lists = [['a', 1], ['b', 2], ['c', 3], ['blah', 1000]]

for sublist in list_of_lists:
    if sublist[0] == 'blah':
        sublist.append('new value')


Hope that helps.


From darcy at vex.net  Sun Mar  5 11:53:39 2017
From: darcy at vex.net (D'Arcy Cain)
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2017 11:53:39 -0500
Subject: [RELEASE] Python 3.6.1rc1 is now available
In-Reply-To: <50484B0A-BA03-42D0-B5EC-4D8E1CF1BC26@python.org>
References: <50484B0A-BA03-42D0-B5EC-4D8E1CF1BC26@python.org>
Message-ID: <5fe75c2f-d49a-16f2-c63f-82e26cfe5138@vex.net>

On 2017-03-05 07:01 AM, Ned Deily wrote:
> On behalf of the Python development community and the Python 3.6 release
> team, I would like to announce the availability of Python 3.6.1rc1.
> 3.6.1rc1 is the first release candidate for Python 3.6.1, the first
> maintenance release of Python 3.6.  3.6.0 was released on 2017-12-22

from __future__ import 3.6.0

Did Guido finally get that time machine working?

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain
System Administrator, Vex.Net
http://www.Vex.Net/ IM:darcy at Vex.Net
VoIP: sip:darcy at Vex.Net


From darcy at VybeNetworks.com  Sun Mar  5 11:57:17 2017
From: darcy at VybeNetworks.com (D'Arcy Cain)
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2017 11:57:17 -0500
Subject: [RELEASE] Python 3.6.1rc1 is now available
In-Reply-To: <50484B0A-BA03-42D0-B5EC-4D8E1CF1BC26@python.org>
References: <50484B0A-BA03-42D0-B5EC-4D8E1CF1BC26@python.org>
Message-ID: <4c8e52e9-2450-cf49-cec3-f6783418cc57@VybeNetworks.com>

On 2017-03-05 07:01 AM, Ned Deily wrote:
> On behalf of the Python development community and the Python 3.6 release
> team, I would like to announce the availability of Python 3.6.1rc1.
> 3.6.1rc1 is the first release candidate for Python 3.6.1, the first
> maintenance release of Python 3.6.  3.6.0 was released on 2017-12-22

from __future__ import 3.6.0

Did Guido finally get that time machine working?

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain
Vybe Networks Inc.
http://www.VybeNetworks.com/
IM:darcy at Vex.Net VoIP: sip:darcy at VybeNetworks.com


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Sun Mar  5 12:54:36 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2017 04:54:36 +1100
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
Message-ID: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

I'm trying to convert strings to Title Case, but getting ugly results if the
words contain an apostrophe:


py> 'hello world'.title()  # okay
'Hello World'
py> "i can't be having with this".title()  # not okay
"I Can'T Be Having With This"


Anyone have any suggestions for working around this?



-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Mar  5 14:38:54 2017
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2017 19:38:54 +0000
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
In-Reply-To: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <e949536a-787f-4f46-9a00-7e3050144c22@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2017-03-05 17:54, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> I'm trying to convert strings to Title Case, but getting ugly results if the
> words contain an apostrophe:
>
>
> py> 'hello world'.title()  # okay
> 'Hello World'
> py> "i can't be having with this".title()  # not okay
> "I Can'T Be Having With This"
>
>
> Anyone have any suggestions for working around this?
>
A bit of regex?

import re

def title(string):
     return re.sub(r"\b'\w", lambda m: m.group().lower(), string.title())



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Mar  5 15:40:58 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2017 15:40:58 -0500
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
In-Reply-To: <e949536a-787f-4f46-9a00-7e3050144c22@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <e949536a-787f-4f46-9a00-7e3050144c22@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <o9ht4m$f6o$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 3/5/2017 2:38 PM, MRAB wrote:
> On 2017-03-05 17:54, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> I'm trying to convert strings to Title Case, but getting ugly results
>> if the
>> words contain an apostrophe:
>>
>>
>> py> 'hello world'.title()  # okay
>> 'Hello World'
>> py> "i can't be having with this".title()  # not okay
>> "I Can'T Be Having With This"
>>
>>
>> Anyone have any suggestions for working around this?
>>
> A bit of regex?
>
> import re
>
> def title(string):
>     return re.sub(r"\b'\w", lambda m: m.group().lower(), string.title())

Nice.  It lowercases a word char that follows an "'" that follows a word 
without an intervening non-word char. It passes this test:
print(title("'time' isn't 'timeless'!"))
'Time' Isn't 'Timeless'!

It guess the reason not to bake this exception into str.title is that it 
is language specific and could even be wrong if someone used "'" to 
separate words (perhaps in a different alphabet).

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From eryksun at gmail.com  Sun Mar  5 17:25:23 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2017 22:25:23 +0000
Subject: How to access installed scripts on Windows?
In-Reply-To: <9dd2791f-5358-479f-b0e9-9e6c91e2e788@googlegroups.com>
References: <d0da325d-7e42-44ee-ae16-087462858842@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1au3_+-Kz6oU8fqxe7sEaGR90cVXLni1iQXC8ckxG6j-iQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.2.1487464860.24725.python-list@python.org>
 <9dd2791f-5358-479f-b0e9-9e6c91e2e788@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1asxCSL4cX_F=OpPm97Z6B6RRLnJWqZf6_CTB1x9hn5n_w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 2:35 AM, ddbug <pavel.aronsky at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You can also develop using venv virtual environments. You can symlink
>> or shell-shortcut to the activation script of a virtual environment.
>
> Interesting idea. But I have not seen any installers or guidance how to deploy something packaged
> as a venv to users. Can you share any pointers please?

Are we talking about scripts for programmers to work with libraries
that you publish (e.g. a command-line tool like cythonize), or
applications for end users and IT staff? Virtual environments are
primarily a solution for developers. For deployment to end users, take
a look at what Paul Moore is doing with pylaunch and the embedded
Python distribution:

https://github.com/pfmoore/pylaunch
https://docs.python.org/3/using/windows.html#embedded-distribution


From jsf80238 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  5 20:58:42 2017
From: jsf80238 at gmail.com (Jason Friedman)
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2017 18:58:42 -0700
Subject: Online Python Editor with Live Syntax Checking
In-Reply-To: <460d95fb-827c-4e1a-91bf-d4cc633a213b@googlegroups.com>
References: <460d95fb-827c-4e1a-91bf-d4cc633a213b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CANy1k1h56TZpwBX7M47tC0ALYNuNcTvP6Ux93txuvV-uSi0XxQ@mail.gmail.com>

>
> I made a tool called PythonBuddy (http://pythonbuddy.com/).
>
> I made this so that MOOCs like edX or codecademy could easily embed and
> use this on their courses so students wouldn't have to go through the
> frustrations of setting up a Python environment and jump right into Python
> programming. Also, professors and teachers could easily set up a server and
> allow students to quickly test out their code with PythonBuddy online.
>
> Github repo: https://github.com/ethanche?/OnlinePythonLinterSyntaxChecker
>

Pretty cool.

Your Github link did not work for me.

This looks like Python 2.  Is there a reason you did not go with 3?


From nagle at animats.com  Sun Mar  5 21:39:43 2017
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2017 18:39:43 -0800
Subject: Who still supports recent Python on shared hosting
Message-ID: <o9ii0i$v3i$1@dont-email.me>

I'm looking for shared hosting that supports
at least Python 3.4.

Hostgator: Highest version is Python 3.2.
Dreamhost: Highest version is Python 2.7.
Bluehost: Install Python yourself.
InMotion: Their documentation says 2.6.

Is Python on shared hosting dead?
I don't need a whole VM and something I
have to sysadmin, just a small shared
hosting account.

			John Nagle


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar  5 21:54:10 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 13:54:10 +1100
Subject: Who still supports recent Python on shared hosting
In-Reply-To: <o9ii0i$v3i$1@dont-email.me>
References: <o9ii0i$v3i$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrM=sLDGtWrgvsmiUOeLDhuFZbEibP5f=TL_DcrBMJqvQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 1:39 PM, John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> wrote:
> I'm looking for shared hosting that supports
> at least Python 3.4.
>
> Hostgator: Highest version is Python 3.2.
> Dreamhost: Highest version is Python 2.7.
> Bluehost: Install Python yourself.
> InMotion: Their documentation says 2.6.
>
> Is Python on shared hosting dead?
> I don't need a whole VM and something I
> have to sysadmin, just a small shared
> hosting account.

Heroku supports a number of Python versions:

https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/python-support#supported-python-runtimes

I'm not sure how to list *every* supported Python version (the docs
only list the latest 2.7 and the latest 3.x at any given time), but I
poked around in https://lang-python.s3.amazonaws.com/ and found a
large number of versions that appear to be installable. You specify a
version with a file in your repository called "runtime.txt", and
they'll give you that version if they can, or kick back an error.

ChrisA


From darcy at VybeNetworks.com  Mon Mar  6 01:31:30 2017
From: darcy at VybeNetworks.com (D'Arcy Cain)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 01:31:30 -0500
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
In-Reply-To: <o9ht4m$f6o$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <e949536a-787f-4f46-9a00-7e3050144c22@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <o9ht4m$f6o$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <0150fb7d-1dce-c107-9e11-c220d5fb3e95@VybeNetworks.com>

On 2017-03-05 03:40 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
>> import re
>>
>> def title(string):
>>     return re.sub(r"\b'\w", lambda m: m.group().lower(), string.title())
>
> Nice.  It lowercases a word char that follows an "'" that follows a word
> without an intervening non-word char. It passes this test:
> print(title("'time' isn't 'timeless'!"))
> 'Time' Isn't 'Timeless'!
>
> It guess the reason not to bake this exception into str.title is that it
> is language specific and could even be wrong if someone used "'" to
> separate words (perhaps in a different alphabet).

Or, it doesn't handle exceptions.

print title("My name is D'Arcy")

Oops.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain
Vybe Networks Inc.
http://www.VybeNetworks.com/
IM:darcy at Vex.Net VoIP: sip:darcy at VybeNetworks.com


From darcy at VybeNetworks.com  Mon Mar  6 01:32:46 2017
From: darcy at VybeNetworks.com (D'Arcy Cain)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 01:32:46 -0500
Subject: Who still supports recent Python on shared hosting
In-Reply-To: <o9ii0i$v3i$1@dont-email.me>
References: <o9ii0i$v3i$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <96741a7b-f23c-5dab-fc02-2b7b6cdfaf95@VybeNetworks.com>

On 2017-03-05 09:39 PM, John Nagle wrote:
> I'm looking for shared hosting that supports
> at least Python 3.4.

http://www.VybeNetworks.com/

We have Python 2.7 and 3.6 installed.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain
Vybe Networks Inc.
http://www.VybeNetworks.com/
IM:darcy at Vex.Net VoIP: sip:darcy at VybeNetworks.com


From petef4+usenet at gmail.com  Mon Mar  6 02:14:52 2017
From: petef4+usenet at gmail.com (Pete Forman)
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2017 07:14:52 +0000
Subject: Who still supports recent Python on shared hosting
References: <o9ii0i$v3i$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <m1a88y98r7.fsf@iKarel.lan>

John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> writes:

> I'm looking for shared hosting that supports
> at least Python 3.4.
>
> Hostgator: Highest version is Python 3.2.
> Dreamhost: Highest version is Python 2.7.
> Bluehost: Install Python yourself.
> InMotion: Their documentation says 2.6.
>
> Is Python on shared hosting dead?
> I don't need a whole VM and something I
> have to sysadmin, just a small shared
> hosting account.

I use OpenShift from Red Hat on their free hosting package. They offer
Python 3.5, 3.3 and 2.7.

-- 
Pete Forman
https://payg-petef.rhcloud.com


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Mar  6 02:22:09 2017
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2017 23:22:09 -0800
Subject: Who still supports recent Python on shared hosting
References: <o9ii0i$v3i$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <87r32adg4e.fsf@nightsong.com>

John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> writes:
> I'm looking for shared hosting that supports at least Python 3.4.

Open a ticket on buyshared.net and ask if they can install it for you.
They're good about stuff like that.

If it's for a cgi, you might alternatively be able to run it from your
own directory (you get ssh access which gives some flexibility).


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Mon Mar  6 03:24:02 2017
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 08:24:02 +0000
Subject: Who still supports recent Python on shared hosting
In-Reply-To: <o9ii0i$v3i$1@dont-email.me>
References: <o9ii0i$v3i$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <dafaf25e-93c4-b93a-c09b-4882b4ba8526@timgolden.me.uk>

On 06/03/2017 02:39, John Nagle wrote:
> I'm looking for shared hosting that supports
> at least Python 3.4.
>
> Hostgator: Highest version is Python 3.2.
> Dreamhost: Highest version is Python 2.7.
> Bluehost: Install Python yourself.
> InMotion: Their documentation says 2.6.
>
> Is Python on shared hosting dead?
> I don't need a whole VM and something I
> have to sysadmin, just a small shared
> hosting account.

webfaction.com

TJG



From gvmcmt at gmail.com  Mon Mar  6 03:52:46 2017
From: gvmcmt at gmail.com (gvmcmt at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 00:52:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
In-Reply-To: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7172474a-ece2-42af-8edb-ba477e858e86@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 11:25:04 PM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> I'm trying to convert strings to Title Case, but getting ugly results if the
> words contain an apostrophe:
> 
> 
> py> 'hello world'.title()  # okay
> 'Hello World'
> py> "i can't be having with this".title()  # not okay
> "I Can'T Be Having With This"
> 
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions for working around this?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steve
> ?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
> enough, things got worse.


import string

txt = "i can't be having with this"
string.capwords(txt)

That gives you "I Can't Be Having With This"

Hope that helps.


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Mon Mar  6 04:07:00 2017
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2017 11:07:00 +0200
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <7172474a-ece2-42af-8edb-ba477e858e86@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <lf537eq4vuz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

gvmcmt at gmail.com writes:

> On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 11:25:04 PM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> I'm trying to convert strings to Title Case, but getting ugly results
>> if the words contain an apostrophe:
>> 
>> 
>> py> 'hello world'.title()  # okay
>> 'Hello World'
>> py> "i can't be having with this".title()  # not okay
>> "I Can'T Be Having With This"
>> 
>> 
>> Anyone have any suggestions for working around this?

[snip sig]

> import string
>
> txt = "i can't be having with this"
> string.capwords(txt)
>
> That gives you "I Can't Be Having With This"
>
> Hope that helps.

Won't Steve D'aprano And D'arcy Cain Be Happy Now :)


From gvmcmt at gmail.com  Mon Mar  6 04:17:35 2017
From: gvmcmt at gmail.com (gvmcmt at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 01:17:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
In-Reply-To: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <d4f24aa1-ee71-4568-97ef-8624d2fa6b8f@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 11:25:04 PM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> I'm trying to convert strings to Title Case, but getting ugly results if the
> words contain an apostrophe:
> 
> 
> py> 'hello world'.title()  # okay
> 'Hello World'
> py> "i can't be having with this".title()  # not okay
> "I Can'T Be Having With This"
> 
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions for working around this?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steve
> ?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
> enough, things got worse.

import string 

txt = "i can't be having with this" 
string.capwords(txt) 

That gives you "I Can't Be Having With This" 

Alternatively

txt = "i can't be having with this"

' '.join([word.capitalize() for word in txt.split()])

will result in: "I Can't Be Having With This"


From gvmcmt at gmail.com  Mon Mar  6 04:32:36 2017
From: gvmcmt at gmail.com (gvmcmt at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 01:32:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
In-Reply-To: <lf537eq4vuz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <7172474a-ece2-42af-8edb-ba477e858e86@googlegroups.com>
 <lf537eq4vuz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <1022b51d-b11e-443f-9698-5d659b1dda3e@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 2:37:11 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> gvmcmt at gmail.com writes:
> 
> > On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 11:25:04 PM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> >> I'm trying to convert strings to Title Case, but getting ugly results
> >> if the words contain an apostrophe:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> py> 'hello world'.title()  # okay
> >> 'Hello World'
> >> py> "i can't be having with this".title()  # not okay
> >> "I Can'T Be Having With This"
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Anyone have any suggestions for working around this?
> 
> [snip sig]
> 
> > import string
> >
> > txt = "i can't be having with this"
> > string.capwords(txt)
> >
> > That gives you "I Can't Be Having With This"
> >
> > Hope that helps.
> 
> Won't Steve D'aprano And D'arcy Cain Be Happy Now :)


I found it at https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html#string.capwords :)


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Mon Mar  6 04:52:17 2017
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2017 11:52:17 +0200
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <7172474a-ece2-42af-8edb-ba477e858e86@googlegroups.com>
 <lf537eq4vuz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <1022b51d-b11e-443f-9698-5d659b1dda3e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <lf5y3wi3f72.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

gvmcmt at gmail.com writes:

> On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 2:37:11 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
>> gvmcmt at gmail.com writes:
>> 
>> > On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 11:25:04 PM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> >> I'm trying to convert strings to Title Case, but getting ugly results
>> >> if the words contain an apostrophe:
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> py> 'hello world'.title()  # okay
>> >> 'Hello World'
>> >> py> "i can't be having with this".title()  # not okay
>> >> "I Can'T Be Having With This"
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> Anyone have any suggestions for working around this?
>> 
>> [snip sig]
>> 
>> > import string
>> >
>> > txt = "i can't be having with this"
>> > string.capwords(txt)
>> >
>> > That gives you "I Can't Be Having With This"
>> >
>> > Hope that helps.
>> 
>> Won't Steve D'aprano And D'arcy Cain Be Happy Now :)
>
>
> I found it at https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html#string.capwords :)

Sure, it's there, and that's a good point. It still mangles their names.

It also mangles any whitespace in the string. That is probably mostly
harmless.

It also will capitalize all the little words in the string that are
usually not capitalized in titles, even in the usual headlinese English
variants. And all the acronyms and such that are usually written in all
caps, or in even odder patterns.

I guess it's a somewhat practical approximation to an AI-hard problem.
(Mumble mumble str.swapcase, er, never mind me :)


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Mar  6 05:04:48 2017
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2017 11:04:48 +0100
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <7172474a-ece2-42af-8edb-ba477e858e86@googlegroups.com>
 <lf537eq4vuz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <o9jc7q$aa9$1@blaine.gmane.org>

Jussi Piitulainen wrote:

> gvmcmt at gmail.com writes:
> 
>> On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 11:25:04 PM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>>> I'm trying to convert strings to Title Case, but getting ugly results
>>> if the words contain an apostrophe:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> py> 'hello world'.title()  # okay
>>> 'Hello World'
>>> py> "i can't be having with this".title()  # not okay
>>> "I Can'T Be Having With This"
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Anyone have any suggestions for working around this?
> 
> [snip sig]
> 
>> import string
>>
>> txt = "i can't be having with this"
>> string.capwords(txt)
>>
>> That gives you "I Can't Be Having With This"
>>
>> Hope that helps.
> 
> Won't Steve D'aprano And D'arcy Cain Be Happy Now :)

Perhaps one could limit the conversion to go from lower to upper only, as 
names tend be in the desired case in the original text.

>>> def first_up(s):
...     return s[:1].upper() + s[1:]
... 
>>> def title(s):
...     return re.compile(r"(?:\b'?)\w+").sub(lambda m: first_up(m.group()), 
s)
... 
>>> title("won't steve D'Aprano and d'arcy cain be 'happy' now?")
"Won't Steve D'Aprano And D'arcy Cain Be 'Happy' Now?"

Unfortunately this won't help with 

>>> title("admiral von schneider")
'Admiral Von Schneider'  # von should be lower case




From p.f.moore at gmail.com  Mon Mar  6 05:29:45 2017
From: p.f.moore at gmail.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 02:29:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to access installed scripts on Windows?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.162.1488752766.2612.python-list@python.org>
References: <d0da325d-7e42-44ee-ae16-087462858842@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1au3_+-Kz6oU8fqxe7sEaGR90cVXLni1iQXC8ckxG6j-iQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.2.1487464860.24725.python-list@python.org>
 <9dd2791f-5358-479f-b0e9-9e6c91e2e788@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1asxCSL4cX_F=OpPm97Z6B6RRLnJWqZf6_CTB1x9hn5n_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.162.1488752766.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8ae7e347-68d8-4de8-ba66-1ba140b3e5c1@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, 5 March 2017 22:26:17 UTC, eryk sun  wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 2:35 AM, ddbug <pavel.aronsky at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> You can also develop using venv virtual environments. You can symlink
> >> or shell-shortcut to the activation script of a virtual environment.
> >
> > Interesting idea. But I have not seen any installers or guidance how to deploy something packaged
> > as a venv to users. Can you share any pointers please?
> 
> Are we talking about scripts for programmers to work with libraries
> that you publish (e.g. a command-line tool like cythonize), or
> applications for end users and IT staff? Virtual environments are
> primarily a solution for developers. For deployment to end users, take
> a look at what Paul Moore is doing with pylaunch and the embedded
> Python distribution:
> 
> https://github.com/pfmoore/pylaunch
> https://docs.python.org/3/using/windows.html#embedded-distribution

To clarify the situation, the "entry point" facility is basically designed to provide a command line interface to a Python module you are distributing. The target audience is therefore people who are using Python as a language, and so are (somewhat) familiar with setting up PATH, maybe even using virtualenvs, etc. That's not always how entry points are used in practice, because a lot of the alternatives for other use cases are not well known and/or limited. So entry points get used for situations where they aren't always ideal for the target audience.

If you're looking to deploy an application written in Python to users who don't really care about the implementation language, and just want to use the application, then entry points may not be the best option for you.

If you can rely on your users having Python installed and set up correctly (as an analogy, when distributing a Java program, users need to have a Java runtime installed) and you don't use any C extensions, then a zipapp (see https://docs.python.org/3.6/library/zipapp.html) may be enough for you - Python 3.6 registers the ".pyz" and ".pyzw" extensions for zipapps, so they should be runnable via double click without much difficulty. In a similar manner, but with a little more effort, you can deploy your application as a runnable directory, which supports C extensions, but may need a launcher script to work easily.

If you want to bundle Python with your application, so that it looks basically like a "native" executable, then py2exe and cx_Freeze are two projects that do this and have been round for quite some time. They may suit your needs better.

My pylaunch project (that Eryk linked to) is a prototype approach that is intended for distributors that want more control over the build process, which provides a flexible set of tools for people to build applications using the (somewhat smaller, and completely self-contained) embeddable distribution that became available with recent Python 3.x builds. It's targeted at the soon-to-be-released Python 3.6.1 and later (there's a minor issue with 3.6.0 that makes putting the embedded distribution in a subdirectory a little fiddly). If you're interested in building your own custom solution, it's probably something you should look at, but it's definitely not a finished product yet.

Hope this helps,
Paul


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Mar  6 05:50:06 2017
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2017 21:50:06 +1100
Subject: python-daemon and PID files
References: <o9g6hl$5pc$1@blaine.gmane.org> <58BBA4A8.2040602@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <85r32aisrl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> writes:

> On 03/04/2017 09:09 PM, Ian Pilcher wrote:
>
> > Is it possible to get python-daemon to create "systemd style" PID
> > file?

Short answer: No, that's the job of whatever ?pidfile? object you
provide.


Medium answer: Yes, by implementing that behaviour in the object you
choose to present as the ?pidfile? option. The ?python-lockfile? library
is suggested as one implementation, but there are of course others.


Longer answer: Because ?python-daemon? is deliberately agnostic about
what the ?pidfile? object does, you can give it any behaviour you like.

The only thing the ?DaemonContext.pidfile? option is expected to do is
be a context manager; what happens when that context manager is entered
or exited is up to you.

> I know my library, pandaemonium [1], will allow you to write the pid
> file complete with the daemon's PID, and I would be very surprised if
> Ben's python-daemon did not also allow that.

It certainly allows it: put whatever behaviour your application needs in
the context manager's methods.

More about writing a context manager can be found at the documentation
<URL:https://docs.python.org/3/reference/datamodel.html#with-statement-context-managers>.

-- 
 \       ?If we listen only to those who are like us, we will squander |
  `\   the great opportunity before us: To live together peacefully in |
_o__)            a world of unresolved differences.? ?David Weinberger |
Ben Finney



From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Mar  6 06:07:33 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 22:07:33 +1100
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
In-Reply-To: <o9jc7q$aa9$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <7172474a-ece2-42af-8edb-ba477e858e86@googlegroups.com>
 <lf537eq4vuz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi> <o9jc7q$aa9$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqE34on=dGRQ3pw8OZYoKxhjASDf0JPXxrm1MbMQaq4zw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:04 PM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> Perhaps one could limit the conversion to go from lower to upper only, as
> names tend be in the desired case in the original text.

No, that just tends to make things confusing to use.

> Unfortunately this won't help with
>
>>>> title("admiral von schneider")
> 'Admiral Von Schneider'  # von should be lower case

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Jussi Piitulainen
<jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi> wrote:
> It also will capitalize all the little words in the string that are
> usually not capitalized in titles, even in the usual headlinese English
> variants. And all the acronyms and such that are usually written in all
> caps, or in even odder patterns.

Right. If you want true title casing, it has to be *extremely*
linguistically-aware. Each of these highlights the fact that "title
case" does not truly equate to "capitalize each whitespace-delimited
word", so it's going to need some sort of intelligence.

There's probably a linguistic library out there that does all of this,
but it doesn't need to be in the stdlib. I am a little surprised by
the "Don'T" from the OP, but I'm not at all surprised at "Admiral Von
Schneider", nor of "How To Teach Css" and other "anomalies".

Still, it's fun to discuss, if only to show why that kind of
locale-aware transformation is important.

ChrisA


From python at bdurham.com  Mon Mar  6 07:35:11 2017
From: python at bdurham.com (Malcolm Greene)
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2017 07:35:11 -0500
Subject: Who still supports recent Python on shared hosting
In-Reply-To: <dafaf25e-93c4-b93a-c09b-4882b4ba8526@timgolden.me.uk>
References: <o9ii0i$v3i$1@dont-email.me>
 <dafaf25e-93c4-b93a-c09b-4882b4ba8526@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <1488803711.144664.901821744.6453F1EE@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Another endorsement for Webfaction.








From marko at pacujo.net  Mon Mar  6 09:03:07 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2017 16:03:07 +0200
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <7172474a-ece2-42af-8edb-ba477e858e86@googlegroups.com>
 <lf537eq4vuz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi> <o9jc7q$aa9$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmqE34on=dGRQ3pw8OZYoKxhjASDf0JPXxrm1MbMQaq4zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.170.1488798456.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87innmzen8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> Right. If you want true title casing, it has to be *extremely*
> linguistically-aware.

For instance, title case has no meaning in the context of Finnish. In
other words, your internationalized program shouldn't even think of
title case when localized in Finnish.

This localization problem runs even deeper. My Windows Phone displays
the time and date:

    15:49
    maanantai
    6. maaliskuuta

It gets many things right. However, in Finland, nobody ever spells out
the month name in dates. "March 6" should be localized to "6.3.",
preferably to "6.3.2017".

> Still, it's fun to discuss, if only to show why that kind of
> locale-aware transformation is important.

Finland is a bilingual country. You often see street ads for the same
product in Finnish and Swedish. What is notable is that the Finnish and
Swedish variants can have completely different punchlines because a
translation just wouldn't sound good either way.


Marko


From darcy at VybeNetworks.com  Mon Mar  6 10:18:29 2017
From: darcy at VybeNetworks.com (D'Arcy Cain)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 10:18:29 -0500
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
In-Reply-To: <o9jc7q$aa9$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <7172474a-ece2-42af-8edb-ba477e858e86@googlegroups.com>
 <lf537eq4vuz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi> <o9jc7q$aa9$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <93afa0e5-a1d4-ac85-cded-0e1a8cc3722e@VybeNetworks.com>

On 2017-03-06 05:04 AM, Peter Otten wrote:
>> Won't Steve D'aprano And D'arcy Cain Be Happy Now :)
>
> Perhaps one could limit the conversion to go from lower to upper only, as
> names tend be in the desired case in the original text.

That would help with acronyms as well.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain
Vybe Networks Inc.
http://www.VybeNetworks.com/
IM:darcy at Vex.Net VoIP: sip:darcy at VybeNetworks.com


From iilaraja1286 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  6 10:36:11 2017
From: iilaraja1286 at gmail.com (iilaraja1286 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 07:36:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Export Event log via python in .txt
Message-ID: <e536e09a-6ab2-48cd-b7e7-a5b072f892ab@googlegroups.com>

I'm a student learning about python I would like to know how to export Security log Application and generate folder path via python please help 


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Mon Mar  6 11:28:45 2017
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 16:28:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <7172474a-ece2-42af-8edb-ba477e858e86@googlegroups.com>
 <lf537eq4vuz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi> <o9jc7q$aa9$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmqE34on=dGRQ3pw8OZYoKxhjASDf0JPXxrm1MbMQaq4zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <o9k2nt$hia$2@blaine.gmane.org>

On 2017-03-06, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> Still, it's fun to discuss, if only to show why that kind of
> locale-aware transformation is important.

Besides locale-aware, it'll need to be style-guide-aware so that it
knows whether you want MLA, Chicago, Strunk & White, NYT, Gregg,
Mrs. Johnson from 9th grade English class, or any of a dozen or two
others.  And that's just for US English.  [For all I know, most of the
ones I listed agree completely on "title case", but I doubt it.]

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! FOOLED you!  Absorb
                                  at               EGO SHATTERING impulse
                              gmail.com            rays, polyester poltroon!!



From steve+python at pearwood.info  Mon Mar  6 18:07:47 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2017 10:07:47 +1100
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <7172474a-ece2-42af-8edb-ba477e858e86@googlegroups.com>
 <lf537eq4vuz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi> <o9jc7q$aa9$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmqE34on=dGRQ3pw8OZYoKxhjASDf0JPXxrm1MbMQaq4zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <o9k2nt$hia$2@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.174.1488817746.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58bdebc4$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 03:28 am, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2017-03-06, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Still, it's fun to discuss, if only to show why that kind of
>> locale-aware transformation is important.
> 
> Besides locale-aware, it'll need to be style-guide-aware so that it
> knows whether you want MLA, Chicago, Strunk & White, NYT, Gregg,
> Mrs. Johnson from 9th grade English class, or any of a dozen or two
> others.  And that's just for US English.  [For all I know, most of the
> ones I listed agree completely on "title case", but I doubt it.]

As far as I am aware, there are only two conventions for title case in
English:

Initial Capitals For All The Words In A Sentence.

Initial Capitals For All the Significant Words in a Sentence.

For some unstated, subjective rule for "significant" which usually
means "three or more letters, excluding the definite article ('the')".

But of course there are exceptions: words which are necessarily in all-caps
should stay in all-caps (e.g. NASA) and names.


-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Mon Mar  6 18:28:56 2017
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 23:28:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <7172474a-ece2-42af-8edb-ba477e858e86@googlegroups.com>
 <lf537eq4vuz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi> <o9jc7q$aa9$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmqE34on=dGRQ3pw8OZYoKxhjASDf0JPXxrm1MbMQaq4zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <o9k2nt$hia$2@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.174.1488817746.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <58bdebc4$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <o9krbn$2oi$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 2017-03-06, Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 03:28 am, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> On 2017-03-06, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Still, it's fun to discuss, if only to show why that kind of
>>> locale-aware transformation is important.
>> 
>> Besides locale-aware, it'll need to be style-guide-aware so that it
>> knows whether you want MLA, Chicago, Strunk & White, NYT, Gregg,
>> Mrs. Johnson from 9th grade English class, or any of a dozen or two
>> others.  And that's just for US English.  [For all I know, most of the
>> ones I listed agree completely on "title case", but I doubt it.]
>
> As far as I am aware, there are only two conventions for title case in
> English:
>
> Initial Capitals For All The Words In A Sentence.
>
> Initial Capitals For All the Significant Words in a Sentence.
>
> For some unstated, subjective rule for "significant" which usually
> means "three or more letters, excluding the definite article ('the')".
>
> But of course there are exceptions: words which are necessarily in
> all-caps should stay in all-caps (e.g. NASA) and names.


And you capitalize "insignificant" words at the beginning of the title
or following a colon.  And then there are special cases for hyphenated
words, prepositions that belong to a phrasal verb, and so on and so
forth.

Plus a bunch of exceptions that have been imported from other
languages (this is mostly covered by the "name" exception).

The "name" one is probably the only one that many people will notice
if it's wrong.  Unfortunately, writing an algorithm that can decide
what constitutes a "name" borders on the impossible.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I'm totally DESPONDENT
                                  at               over the LIBYAN situation
                              gmail.com            and the price of CHICKEN
                                                   ...



From steve+python at pearwood.info  Mon Mar  6 18:33:21 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2017 10:33:21 +1100
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <7172474a-ece2-42af-8edb-ba477e858e86@googlegroups.com>
 <lf537eq4vuz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi> <o9jc7q$aa9$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmqE34on=dGRQ3pw8OZYoKxhjASDf0JPXxrm1MbMQaq4zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.170.1488798456.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <87innmzen8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <58bdf1c3$0$1617$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 01:03 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
> 
>> Right. If you want true title casing, it has to be *extremely*
>> linguistically-aware.
> 
> For instance, title case has no meaning in the context of Finnish. In
> other words, your internationalized program shouldn't even think of
> title case when localized in Finnish.

If you read "title case" as *literally* as being only for titles (of books,
for instance) then of course you are right. Finnish book titles are
normally written in sentence case (initial capital, followed by all
lowercase).

But if you consider title case more widely, Finnish includes it too. Names
are written in title case ("Marko Rauhamaa" rather than "Marko rauhamaa").
I imagine countries get the same treatment when needed. How do you write
Saudi Arabia, United Kingdom, and North Korea?

I came across this book title:

T??ll? Pohjant?hden alla (?Here beneath the North Star?)

http://www.booksfromfinland.fi/1980/12/the-strike/

which is partly title case, but I'm not sure what rule is being applied
there. My guess is that "T??ll? Pohjant?hden" means "North Star" and it
counts as a proper noun, like countries and people's names, and so takes
initial caps for each word. Am I close?



-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From marko at pacujo.net  Mon Mar  6 20:03:56 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2017 03:03:56 +0200
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <7172474a-ece2-42af-8edb-ba477e858e86@googlegroups.com>
 <lf537eq4vuz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi> <o9jc7q$aa9$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmqE34on=dGRQ3pw8OZYoKxhjASDf0JPXxrm1MbMQaq4zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.170.1488798456.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <87innmzen8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58bdf1c3$0$1617$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87efy9x5hf.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info>:

> On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 01:03 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> If you read "title case" as *literally* as being only for titles (of
> books, for instance) then of course you are right. Finnish book titles
> are normally written in sentence case (initial capital, followed by
> all lowercase).

Yes.

> But if you consider title case more widely, Finnish includes it too.
> Names are written in title case ("Marko Rauhamaa" rather than "Marko
> rauhamaa"). I imagine countries get the same treatment when needed.
> How do you write Saudi Arabia, United Kingdom, and North Korea?

The rules are a bit complicated. Sentence case is the basic rule.
However, if the latter part of a compound name is a proper noun, both
parts are capitalized and connected with a hyphen:

   Saudi-Arabia
   Pohjois-Korea
   Iso-Britannia

As for the UK:

   Yhdistynyt kuningaskunta

or:

   Ison-Britannian ja Pohjois-Irlannin yhdistynyt kuningaskunta

Similarly, the University of Helsinki is:

   Helsingin yliopisto

> I came across this book title:
>
> T??ll? Pohjant?hden alla (?Here beneath the North Star?)
>
> http://www.booksfromfinland.fi/1980/12/the-strike/
>
> which is partly title case, but I'm not sure what rule is being
> applied there. My guess is that "T??ll? Pohjant?hden" means "North
> Star" and it counts as a proper noun, like countries and people's
> names, and so takes initial caps for each word. Am I close?

Correct.

The sentence case rule is sometimes violated for historical or marketing
reasons:

    Helsingin Sanomat (a newspaper)
    Suomen Kuvalehti (a magazine)
    Sutelan Kello ja Kulta (a jeweler)
    Helsingin Hautaustoimisto (an undertaker)


Marko


From eryksun at gmail.com  Mon Mar  6 20:09:23 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 01:09:23 +0000
Subject: Export Event log via python in .txt
In-Reply-To: <e536e09a-6ab2-48cd-b7e7-a5b072f892ab@googlegroups.com>
References: <e536e09a-6ab2-48cd-b7e7-a5b072f892ab@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1asK3Mx3VXotXGOWMBNFQB0_PK7JCA_93v+zw6OgnjNzQw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 3:36 PM,  <iilaraja1286 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm a student learning about python I would like to know how to export
> Security log Application and generate folder path via python please help

If you're asking about the Windows event logs, then it'll be easiest
from a scripting POV to use wevtutil.exe [1] with an XPath query that
outputs XML. Make sure to use the /uni:true option to get UTF-16
output; otherwise it outputs a lossy ANSI encoding. You can run it
using subprocess.check_output.

[1]: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc732848

As far as exporting the data, the standard library supports XML
processing. Here's an example that logs a warning to the Application
log using "Python" as the provider. Next it executes wevtutil.exe with
a query for events logged by the "Python" provider. Then I parse the
output using ElementTree.

    import logging
    import logging.handlers
    import subprocess
    import xml.etree.ElementTree as ET

    handler = logging.handlers.NTEventLogHandler('Python')
    logging.getLogger().addHandler(handler)
    logging.warn('?????')

    wevtutil = 'wevtutil.exe query-events Application /uni:true /q:"{}"'
    query = "*[System[Provider[@Name='Python']]]"

    out = subprocess.check_output(wevtutil.format(query))

    root = ET.fromstring(out.decode('utf-16'))
    ns = {'event': 'http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event'}

    >>> root.find('.//event:Provider', ns).attrib
    {'Name': 'Python'}
    >>> root.find('.//event:Level', ns).text
    '3'
    >>> root.find('.//event:Channel', ns).text
    'Application'
    >>> root.find('.//event:Data', ns).text
    '?????'


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Mar  6 20:18:13 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 12:18:13 +1100
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
In-Reply-To: <87efy9x5hf.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <7172474a-ece2-42af-8edb-ba477e858e86@googlegroups.com>
 <lf537eq4vuz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi> <o9jc7q$aa9$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmqE34on=dGRQ3pw8OZYoKxhjASDf0JPXxrm1MbMQaq4zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.170.1488798456.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <87innmzen8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58bdf1c3$0$1617$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87efy9x5hf.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpGE4qoDSH-bhyHE7L6=6BQUe=+g_ja6=ZdqKqB15bPpw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>
> As for the UK:
>
>    Yhdistynyt kuningaskunta

About the only part of that that I understand is "kuning" ==
king/queen/kingdom. I swear, you like the letter 'y' more than the
Welsh do...

ChrisA


From bilmar19 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  6 20:44:59 2017
From: bilmar19 at gmail.com (bilmar19 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 17:44:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Basic Packaging strategy question
In-Reply-To: <ed89f49b-4875-4458-a0d2-a764bccf2638@googlegroups.com>
References: <ed89f49b-4875-4458-a0d2-a764bccf2638@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0672695f-f7da-4e22-8a43-f7912fed376a@googlegroups.com>

Thanks,

It still seems strange to me that such a well documented ecosystem does not have an official  way to package a complete  app ( vs packages ). 

Bill


From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Mar  7 00:16:44 2017
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Mar 2017 05:16:44 GMT
Subject: Basic Packaging strategy question
References: <ed89f49b-4875-4458-a0d2-a764bccf2638@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <58be423c$0$1610$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 04 Mar 2017 15:08:15 -0800, bilmar19 wrote:

> I have a simple project that I want to package to put it on another
> machine but everything I have read so far about packaging ends up
> putting the whole install alongside  with 'packages' - typically in
> .../site-packages.
> This seems a strange place to launch an app from!
> 
> So, if I have an app with a main.py entry point is it ok for everything
> to be in .../site-packages/myproject?

Packaging is one of the more hairy areas of Python, but the general 
advice is that you give your package a __main__.py which is run as the 
"execute this package" entry point. A basic skeleton would be a directory 
like this:

myproject/
+-- __init__.py
+-- __main__.py
+-- utils.py
+-- config.py


Notice that only "init" and "main" are special double-underscore names. 
The __main__.py file should look something like this:



def main():
    print("Hello world!")

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()



Place the entire myproject directory under site-packages, and you can run 
it as a script as:

    python -m myproject

from the system shell. Under Windows you may need to specify the path to 
python.exe, I don't really know, I'm not a Windows expert.

If you want to provide a single name command for your users, I expect you 
can probably create a simple batch file containing the command, place it 
in the usual Windows executable path (My Applications or whatever it is 
called these days) and in theory it should Just Work.

I expect that setuptools, pip, etc. should be able to install the batch 
file as well as the package, provided you have appropriate Admin access 
to write to My Applications (?), but I've never tried it myself.


[...]
> simple example which ends up with needing to run:
>  python /usr/local/lib/site_packages/myproject/main.py:

Almost correct, it will be spelled __main__ not main, and site-packages 
with a hyphen, not underscore.




-- 
Steve


From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Mar  7 00:18:19 2017
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Mar 2017 05:18:19 GMT
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <7172474a-ece2-42af-8edb-ba477e858e86@googlegroups.com>
 <lf537eq4vuz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi> <o9jc7q$aa9$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmqE34on=dGRQ3pw8OZYoKxhjASDf0JPXxrm1MbMQaq4zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.170.1488798456.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <87innmzen8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58bdf1c3$0$1617$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87efy9x5hf.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpGE4qoDSH-bhyHE7L6=6BQUe=+g_ja6=ZdqKqB15bPpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.178.1488849502.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58be429b$0$1610$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 12:18:13 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net>
> wrote:
>>
>> As for the UK:
>>
>>    Yhdistynyt kuningaskunta
> 
> About the only part of that that I understand is "kuning" ==
> king/queen/kingdom. I swear, you like the letter 'y' more than the Welsh
> do...


But do Finns like 'y' more than the English like 'e'?



-- 
Steve


From marko at pacujo.net  Tue Mar  7 00:57:29 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2017 07:57:29 +0200
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <7172474a-ece2-42af-8edb-ba477e858e86@googlegroups.com>
 <lf537eq4vuz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi> <o9jc7q$aa9$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmqE34on=dGRQ3pw8OZYoKxhjASDf0JPXxrm1MbMQaq4zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.170.1488798456.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <87innmzen8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58bdf1c3$0$1617$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87efy9x5hf.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpGE4qoDSH-bhyHE7L6=6BQUe=+g_ja6=ZdqKqB15bPpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.178.1488849502.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <877f41wrw6.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>>
>> As for the UK:
>>
>>    Yhdistynyt kuningaskunta
>
> About the only part of that that I understand is "kuning" ==
> king/queen/kingdom. I swear, you like the letter 'y' more than the
> Welsh do...

The Proto-Finnic borrowed the word "kuningas" from the Proto-Germanic,
where it was "kuningaz". The Germanic descendant languages have mangled
the original quite a bit:

   English: king
   German: K?nig
   Swedish: kung

See also: <URL: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=king>.

The word "yhdistynyt" ultimately comes from the Proto-Uralic word
"*?kte" ("one"). The word "kunta" ("society") is in its Proto-Uralic
form.


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Mar  7 00:58:18 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 16:58:18 +1100
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
In-Reply-To: <58be429b$0$1610$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <7172474a-ece2-42af-8edb-ba477e858e86@googlegroups.com>
 <lf537eq4vuz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi> <o9jc7q$aa9$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmqE34on=dGRQ3pw8OZYoKxhjASDf0JPXxrm1MbMQaq4zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.170.1488798456.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <87innmzen8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58bdf1c3$0$1617$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87efy9x5hf.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpGE4qoDSH-bhyHE7L6=6BQUe=+g_ja6=ZdqKqB15bPpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.178.1488849502.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <58be429b$0$1610$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrv9uyg87R4YujJ8wdFcD9=dDrpOabtRU4eCbsT_aS-=w@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 4:18 PM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 12:18:13 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> As for the UK:
>>>
>>>    Yhdistynyt kuningaskunta
>>
>> About the only part of that that I understand is "kuning" ==
>> king/queen/kingdom. I swear, you like the letter 'y' more than the Welsh
>> do...
>
>
> But do Finns like 'y' more than the English like 'e'?

Perhaps not. And certainly not as much as Calculus likes 'e'.

ChrisA


From gregcouch at gmail.com  Tue Mar  7 01:00:41 2017
From: gregcouch at gmail.com (Greg Couch)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 22:00:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: spam issue
In-Reply-To: <1ea22f17-cd73-4e52-80f2-dde488d6913c@googlegroups.com>
References: <1ea22f17-cd73-4e52-80f2-dde488d6913c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <111d8b71-7bd1-430e-8f2b-068158da2c53@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 8:08:44 AM UTC-8, Andrew Zyman wrote:
> Why is this group have such an obscene number of spam posts ?
> I'm subscribed to a few other google groups and this is the only one that has this issue.

If you do use google groups, please "Report abuse" for these messages.  And maybe google will get get a clue.  Wishful thinking, I know.


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Tue Mar  7 02:12:38 2017
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2017 09:12:38 +0200
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <7172474a-ece2-42af-8edb-ba477e858e86@googlegroups.com>
 <lf537eq4vuz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi> <o9jc7q$aa9$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmqE34on=dGRQ3pw8OZYoKxhjASDf0JPXxrm1MbMQaq4zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <o9k2nt$hia$2@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.174.1488817746.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <58bdebc4$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <lf54lz5a7bt.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Steve D'Aprano writes:

> On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 03:28 am, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> 
>> Besides locale-aware, it'll need to be style-guide-aware so that it
>> knows whether you want MLA, Chicago, Strunk & White, NYT, Gregg,
>> Mrs. Johnson from 9th grade English class, or any of a dozen or two
>> others.  And that's just for US English.  [For all I know, most of
>> the ones I listed agree completely on "title case", but I doubt it.]
>
> As far as I am aware, there are only two conventions for title case in
> English:
>
> Initial Capitals For All The Words In A Sentence.
>
> Initial Capitals For All the Significant Words in a Sentence.
>
> For some unstated, subjective rule for "significant" which usually
> means "three or more letters, excluding the definite article ('the')".

That's where the variation is hidden. I browsed three sites to see what
they do. One doesn't title-capitalize anything. One capitalizes
everything.

One was more interesting. I think it has human editors who pay attention
to these matters. They do not capitalize these short words: 'a', 'an',
'at', 'the', 'in', 'of', 'on', 'for', 'to', 'and', 'vs.'; they
capitalize longer prepositions: 'From', 'Into', 'With', 'Through'. Also
auxiliary verbs and copulas even when short.

A 'Nor' was capitalized in the middle of a title, but there was a
sentence boundary just before the 'Nor'. I'd classify 'nor' with 'and'
otherwise, but they might base the non-capitalization on frequency for
all I know.

Some two-letter words: 'Is', 'Am', 'Do', 'So', 'No', 'He', 'We', 'It',
'My', 'Up'; also 'Au Revoir', 'Oi Oi Oi', 'Ay Ay Ay'.

Then there is 'Grown-Ups' and 'Contrary-to-Fact' but 'X-ing'. Sometimes
a hyphen makes a word boundary, sometimes not.

> But of course there are exceptions: words which are necessarily in
> all-caps should stay in all-caps (e.g. NASA) and names.

There may be lots of these if you are handling something like a tech
news site that talks about people and companies and institutions from
all over the world. Names are tricky.


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Tue Mar  7 02:21:17 2017
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2017 09:21:17 +0200
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <7172474a-ece2-42af-8edb-ba477e858e86@googlegroups.com>
 <lf537eq4vuz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi> <o9jc7q$aa9$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmqE34on=dGRQ3pw8OZYoKxhjASDf0JPXxrm1MbMQaq4zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.170.1488798456.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <87innmzen8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58bdf1c3$0$1617$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87efy9x5hf.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <lf5zigx8scy.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Marko Rauhamaa writes:

> Steve D'Aprano wrote:

>> I came across this book title:
>>
>> T??ll? Pohjant?hden alla (?Here beneath the North Star?)
>>
>> http://www.booksfromfinland.fi/1980/12/the-strike/
>>
>> which is partly title case, but I'm not sure what rule is being
>> applied there. My guess is that "T??ll? Pohjant?hden" means "North
>> Star" and it counts as a proper noun, like countries and people's
>> names, and so takes initial caps for each word. Am I close?
>
> Correct.

Not quite.

"T??ll?" is "here", "Pohjant?hden" is "North Star". So it's just a first
word and a name.

("Pohja" and "t?hti" correspond to "North" and "Star".)


From p.f.moore at gmail.com  Tue Mar  7 04:09:05 2017
From: p.f.moore at gmail.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 01:09:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Basic Packaging strategy question
In-Reply-To: <0672695f-f7da-4e22-8a43-f7912fed376a@googlegroups.com>
References: <ed89f49b-4875-4458-a0d2-a764bccf2638@googlegroups.com>
 <0672695f-f7da-4e22-8a43-f7912fed376a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6e3eedc3-372c-488d-9a15-58185d4e97d9@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 01:45:10 UTC, bilm... at gmail.com  wrote:
> It still seems strange to me that such a well documented ecosystem does not have an official  way to package a complete  app ( vs packages ). 

Well, it's a combination of history, the fact that the whole thing is platform dependent, and best practices are changing over time.

If you want an answer for Windows only, that's been around for ages and works well for major applications like Mercurial, you should probably just go with py2exe.

Paul


From borysova.mary at gmail.com  Tue Mar  7 07:45:12 2017
From: borysova.mary at gmail.com (borysova.mary at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 04:45:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Importing with ctypes in Python: fighting overflows
Message-ID: <1e532a81-acd0-4102-9408-b76332344e92@googlegroups.com>

Importing with ctypes in Python: fighting overflows: https://www.cossacklabs.com/blog/fighting-ctypes-overflows.html

Best cases of boring technical debt are understood when reflected properly. This post addresses a simple one: inelegant flags in core C library ended up breaking Python tests. This is no small case to us: tests breaking sometimes might end up in things seeming to work, but not really working. Not something you can afford yourself when you're doing cryptography, do you?


From gheskett at shentel.net  Tue Mar  7 08:57:57 2017
From: gheskett at shentel.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 08:57:57 -0500
Subject: spam issue
In-Reply-To: <111d8b71-7bd1-430e-8f2b-068158da2c53@googlegroups.com>
References: <1ea22f17-cd73-4e52-80f2-dde488d6913c@googlegroups.com>
 <111d8b71-7bd1-430e-8f2b-068158da2c53@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <201703070857.57962.gheskett@shentel.net>

On Tuesday 07 March 2017 01:00:41 Greg Couch wrote:

> On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 8:08:44 AM UTC-8, Andrew Zyman wrote:
> > Why is this group have such an obscene number of spam posts ?
> > I'm subscribed to a few other google groups and this is the only one
> > that has this issue.
>
> If you do use google groups, please "Report abuse" for these messages.
>  And maybe google will get get a clue.  Wishful thinking, I know.

I don't get any more spam on this list, I send anything from google 
groups to /dev/null before it gets to /var/spool/mail/.  Much more 
peacefull now, for about 2 years...

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


From eryksun at gmail.com  Tue Mar  7 09:11:38 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 14:11:38 +0000
Subject: Importing with ctypes in Python: fighting overflows
In-Reply-To: <1e532a81-acd0-4102-9408-b76332344e92@googlegroups.com>
References: <1e532a81-acd0-4102-9408-b76332344e92@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1ashYf_yT=_ENBdVYCgqMcDvbry4=fpSCNm9oxp0=Y5aqA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 12:45 PM,  <borysova.mary at gmail.com> wrote:
> Importing with ctypes in Python: fighting overflows:
> https://www.cossacklabs.com/blog/fighting-ctypes-overflows.html

C int is 32-bit on all platforms currently supported by CPython --
both 32-bit and 64-bit. It's the default result type and the default
integer-argument conversion type in ctypes.

Since themis_status_t is a typedef for a C int, the proper way to
define the constant is as follows:

    >>> THEMIS_SCOMPARE_MATCH = ctypes.c_int(0xf0f0f0f0).value
    >>> THEMIS_SCOMPARE_MATCH
    -252645136

This has ctypes convert the value for you, which will be consistent
with how it converts a themis_status_t result.


From Gabriel.Ganne at enea.com  Tue Mar  7 09:47:22 2017
From: Gabriel.Ganne at enea.com (Gabriel Ganne)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 14:47:22 +0000
Subject: custom setup.py link argument order
Message-ID: <VI1PR0701MB2574901AD79D50D8BF8A73DD812F0@VI1PR0701MB2574.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Hi,


I'm currently writing a python C module which has a chained dependency:

- mymodule requires libb

- libb requires liba


To that effect, within setup.py, I link against both liba and libb

  libraries=['a', 'b'],


Also, as I'm working on Ubuntu, I want to add -Wl,--no-as-needed to make sure that the symbols not immediately needed will still be stripped.

  extra_link_args=['-Wl,--no-as-needed'],


However, it seems that the extra_link_args are systematically appended at the end of the link line, but for this to work, the '-Wl,--no-as-needed' argument need to be *before* the link against my two libraries.


How can I choose the order of my link arguments that I pass to gcc using setup.py ?


Best regards,


--

Gabriel Ganne


From bintacomputers at gmail.com  Tue Mar  7 13:47:24 2017
From: bintacomputers at gmail.com (Umar Yusuf)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 10:47:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Need help generating Contour and HeatMap plots
Message-ID: <db700f34-ecb4-4e7b-9fe5-5717b6846b20@googlegroups.com>

Hello house,
I kindly need your input here >> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/42655870/matplotlib-convert-scatter-plot-to-contour-and-heatmap-plots


From gliesian66 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  7 14:21:14 2017
From: gliesian66 at gmail.com (Robert James Liguori)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 11:21:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Oracle Database
Message-ID: <db81a884-b0dc-4148-aad1-9ffb8c110514@googlegroups.com>

What is the easiest way to connect to an Oracle Database using python in order to run queries?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Mar  7 14:34:27 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 06:34:27 +1100
Subject: Oracle Database
In-Reply-To: <db81a884-b0dc-4148-aad1-9ffb8c110514@googlegroups.com>
References: <db81a884-b0dc-4148-aad1-9ffb8c110514@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpNgajSdn=CipgB20RZSo_i90cnyOCeTj7ts2CTp+8E6w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 6:21 AM, Robert James Liguori
<gliesian66 at gmail.com> wrote:
> What is the easiest way to connect to an Oracle Database using python in order to run queries?

There's a Python package called cx_oracle that provides a standardized
interface. You can run queries using that.

https://pypi.python.org/pypi/cx_Oracle

ChrisA


From maria.katic at gmail.com  Tue Mar  7 16:15:06 2017
From: maria.katic at gmail.com (maria.katic at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 13:15:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Invitation to support our research (by responding to the
 questionnaire) on analogy based code reuse
Message-ID: <b7dcda61-40d2-41aa-b5d2-92862aaa3a1e@googlegroups.com>

At Birkbeck, University of London in collaboration with the Faculty of Electrical Engineering and Computing, University of Zagreb, we are doing research on reusing source code based on analogical reasoning.
 
We appreciate the importance of your time and we hope you will be able to invest approximately 15 minutes of your time and fill in our questionnaire. The questionnaire will be available in the next few weeks.
 
We did our best to reduce the amount of questions to the most important ones of our interest. Please note that your feedback is critical to the success of this research. Your answers are completely anonymous.
 
Please follow this link to fill in the questionnaire:
   
    https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc0A_z8Z2zOeElqA_dWBijc04Fh5qARy9PdV63D7QzpFq3rbA/viewform?usp=send_form
 
Thank you very much in advance for your time and for supporting our research.

Kind regards,
Marija, Martin and Mario


From nagle at animats.com  Tue Mar  7 17:05:15 2017
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 14:05:15 -0800
Subject: Unicode support in Python 2.7.8 - 16 bit
Message-ID: <o9nalg$o10$1@dont-email.me>

    How do I test if a Python 2.7.8 build was built for 32-bit
Unicode?  (I'm dealing with shared hosting, and I'm stuck
with their provided versions.)

If I give this to Python 2.7.x:

     sy = u'\U0001f60f'

len(sy) is 1 on a Ubuntu 14.04LTS machine, but 2 on the
Red Hat shared hosting machine.  I assume "1" indicates
32-bit Unicode capability, and "2" indicates 16-bit.
It looks like  Python 2.x in 16-bit mode is using a UTF-16
pair encoding, like Java. Is that right?  Is it documented
somewhere?

(Annoyingly, while the shared host has a Python 3, it's
3.2.3, which rejects "u" Unicode string constants and
has other problems in the MySQL area.)

			John Nagle




From joaquin.henriquez at countercept.com  Tue Mar  7 17:16:48 2017
From: joaquin.henriquez at countercept.com (Joaquin Henriquez)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 22:16:48 +0000
Subject: Oracle Database
Message-ID: <20170307221647.18350138.55614.146@countercept.com>


? Original Message ?

>What is the easiest way to connect to an Oracle Database >using python in order to run queries?

?You should check module cx_Oracle

From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Mar  7 17:21:14 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 09:21:14 +1100
Subject: Unicode support in Python 2.7.8 - 16 bit
In-Reply-To: <o9nalg$o10$1@dont-email.me>
References: <o9nalg$o10$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmokR3Zh=kBb0AxzqhNQ+MMr_uW4SdQ4Q61VuoxrXj5Qkw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 9:05 AM, John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> wrote:
>    How do I test if a Python 2.7.8 build was built for 32-bit
> Unicode?  (I'm dealing with shared hosting, and I'm stuck
> with their provided versions.)
>
> If I give this to Python 2.7.x:
>
>     sy = u'\U0001f60f'
>
> len(sy) is 1 on a Ubuntu 14.04LTS machine, but 2 on the
> Red Hat shared hosting machine.  I assume "1" indicates
> 32-bit Unicode capability, and "2" indicates 16-bit.
> It looks like  Python 2.x in 16-bit mode is using a UTF-16
> pair encoding, like Java. Is that right?  Is it documented
> somewhere?

That's correct. A narrow build will treat that as a pair of
surrogates. You may also be able to check this way:

>>> sys.maxunicode
1114111

> (Annoyingly, while the shared host has a Python 3, it's
> 3.2.3, which rejects "u" Unicode string constants and
> has other problems in the MySQL area.)

Yeah, you'll do well to get a newer Py3 than that. Fortunately, any
Linux old enough to be shipping 3.2 is likely to not depend on it in
any way, so you can install a new Py3 (maybe even 3.6) and shadow the
name "python3" with that. That's what I did when I was on Debian....
Squeeze, I think? and nothing newer than 3.2 was available.

Soon as you hit 3.3, the u"..." prefix becomes legal again, and
subsequent versions have added even more compatibility.

ChrisA


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Mar  7 17:31:43 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 17:31:43 -0500
Subject: Unicode support in Python 2.7.8 - 16 bit
In-Reply-To: <o9nalg$o10$1@dont-email.me>
References: <o9nalg$o10$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <o9ncca$cm9$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 3/7/2017 5:05 PM, John Nagle wrote:
>    How do I test if a Python 2.7.8 build was built for 32-bit
> Unicode?  (I'm dealing with shared hosting, and I'm stuck
> with their provided versions.)
>
> If I give this to Python 2.7.x:
>
>     sy = u'\U0001f60f'
>
> len(sy) is 1 on a Ubuntu 14.04LTS machine, but 2 on the
> Red Hat shared hosting machine.  I assume "1" indicates
> 32-bit Unicode capability, and "2" indicates 16-bit.

Correct

> It looks like  Python 2.x in 16-bit mode is using a UTF-16
> pair encoding, like Java. Is that right?  Is it documented
> somewhere?

Yes, surrogate pairs. Probably

> (Annoyingly, while the shared host has a Python 3, it's
> 3.2.3, which rejects "u" Unicode string constants and
> has other problems in the MySQL area.)

;Very annoying. 3.2 on *nix can also have either narrow or wide build.
3.3+ use new flexible string representation on all platforms.


-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From darcy at VybeNetworks.com  Tue Mar  7 18:56:01 2017
From: darcy at VybeNetworks.com (D'Arcy Cain)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 18:56:01 -0500
Subject: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes
In-Reply-To: <58bdf1c3$0$1617$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <58bc50de$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <7172474a-ece2-42af-8edb-ba477e858e86@googlegroups.com>
 <lf537eq4vuz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi> <o9jc7q$aa9$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmqE34on=dGRQ3pw8OZYoKxhjASDf0JPXxrm1MbMQaq4zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.170.1488798456.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <87innmzen8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58bdf1c3$0$1617$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <25dcce68-7633-3619-331f-a605a6de014d@VybeNetworks.com>

On 2017-03-06 06:33 PM, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> If you read "title case" as *literally* as being only for titles (of books,

I believe there is only one conclusion to be drawn from this thread - 
There is still a place for human proofreaders.  I'm taking that as good 
news.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain
Vybe Networks Inc.
http://www.VybeNetworks.com/
IM:darcy at Vex.Net VoIP: sip:darcy at VybeNetworks.com


From selphiron at gmail.com  Tue Mar  7 20:06:03 2017
From: selphiron at gmail.com (selphiron at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 17:06:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Questions about API documentation
Message-ID: <c703b92c-6d77-43eb-afee-606e66e9ac66@googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I am trying to understand how to write good API documentation. I have read ?7. Documenting Python? in the python developers guide [1] and skimmed the Doc-SIG email archives, but I still have some questions and I would appreciate your help. (Whenever I refer to me in the following questions, I mean documentation authors in general)

1) How much should I (or a documentation author in general) go into detail? I don?t want to bore experienced users, but I don?t want to scare beginners away either.

2) Should I give a code example for each method and object?

3) I recognize 2 different kinds of examples: Some are rather small and right under the object or method description and some are quite long and at the end of a module in a use case. Which kind is encouraged at which conditions?

4) The documentation of the Python Standard Library is quite verbose or like a book / tutorial. Some other documentations like JavaDoc [2] or PerlDoc [3] use a more reference-like documentation. Why did Python choose a different approach? Was this discussed before?

5) Do you have any other advice? Are there things I should be aware of?

Regards

Ahmet

[1] https://docs.python.org/devguide/documenting.html

[2] http://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/api/index.html

[3] http://perldoc.perl.org/


From schneiderw at law.byu.edu  Tue Mar  7 20:24:10 2017
From: schneiderw at law.byu.edu (schneiderw at law.byu.edu)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 18:24:10 -0700
Subject: No module named 'encodings' Python 3.6 on Windows 10 failure
In-Reply-To: <58bf578f.02a7630a.4c208.60a1@mx.google.com>
References: <58bf578f.02a7630a.4c208.60a1@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <58bf5d87.8c2b620a.1a52b.649a@mx.google.com>


Every attempt to make Python 3.6.0 or 3.6.1rc1 to run on Windows 10 has resulted in the error message shown below.? I was running Python 3.5.2 successfully and wanted to upgrade.? 


C:\Python36-32>python
Fatal Python error: Py_Initialize: unable to load the file system codec
ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'encodings'

Current thread 0x00001774 (most recent call first):

C:\Python36-32>





From eryksun at gmail.com  Tue Mar  7 21:21:56 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 02:21:56 +0000
Subject: No module named 'encodings' Python 3.6 on Windows 10 failure
In-Reply-To: <58bf5d87.8c2b620a.1a52b.649a@mx.google.com>
References: <58bf578f.02a7630a.4c208.60a1@mx.google.com>
 <58bf5d87.8c2b620a.1a52b.649a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1asnFTyU6j0E6B_8u4TjznTztjuxceijmtEp7_wkS_OAjQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 1:24 AM,  <schneiderw at law.byu.edu> wrote:
>
> Every attempt to make Python 3.6.0 or 3.6.1rc1 to run on Windows 10
> has resulted in the error message shown below.  I was running Python
> 3.5.2 successfully and wanted to upgrade.
>
> C:\Python36-32>python
> Fatal Python error: Py_Initialize: unable to load the file system codec
> ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'encodings'

You probably have the environment variable PYTHONHOME pointing at some
other Python installation, or a previous installation. Permanently
defining PYTHONHOME is wrong. Unset this value in the
environment-variable editor and open a new command prompt.


From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Tue Mar  7 21:28:59 2017
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 18:28:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Better way to do this dict comprehesion
Message-ID: <bcd87cc3-d41c-4ce8-9d14-07b81c96983a@googlegroups.com>

Hi

I have got this dictionary comprehension and it works but how can I do it better?

from collections import Counter

def find_it(seq):
     counts = dict(Counter(seq))
     a = [(k, v) for k,v in counts.items() if v % 3 == 0]
     return a[0][0]

test_seq = [20,1,-1,2,-2,3,3,5,5,1,2,4,20,4,-1,-2,5]

so this returns 5 which is great and the point of the problem I was doing.

Can also do it like this
def find_it(seq):
     counts = dict(Counter(seq))
     a = [(k) for k,v in counts.items() if v % 3 == 0]
     return a[0]

But the given problem states there will always only be one number appearing an odd number of times given that is there a neater way to get the answer?


Thanks

Sayth


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Mar  7 21:31:54 2017
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 02:31:54 +0000
Subject: No module named 'encodings' Python 3.6 on Windows 10 failure
In-Reply-To: <58bf5d87.8c2b620a.1a52b.649a@mx.google.com>
References: <58bf578f.02a7630a.4c208.60a1@mx.google.com>
 <58bf5d87.8c2b620a.1a52b.649a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <4fefef18-afb2-fc03-362d-1af8f9571a11@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2017-03-08 01:24, schneiderw at law.byu.edu wrote:
>
> Every attempt to make Python 3.6.0 or 3.6.1rc1 to run on Windows 10 has resulted in the error message shown below.  I was running Python 3.5.2 successfully and wanted to upgrade.
>
>
> C:\Python36-32>python
> Fatal Python error: Py_Initialize: unable to load the file system codec
> ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'encodings'
>
> Current thread 0x00001774 (most recent call first):
>
> C:\Python36-32>
>
Which installer did you download?

I've installed both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Python 3.6.0 
(using python-3.6.0.exe and python-3.6.0-amd64.exe respectively) and 
they're both working perfectly.

In <python_folder>\Lib there's a folder called "encodings". If I rename 
it, Python fails. Does that folder exist? Does it contain a load of .py 
files? If not, there's something wrong...

Maybe your installer got corrupted somehow.

Uninstall it, check that all traces of that installation have gone, 
download the installer again, and try installing it again.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Mar  7 21:37:23 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 13:37:23 +1100
Subject: Better way to do this dict comprehesion
In-Reply-To: <bcd87cc3-d41c-4ce8-9d14-07b81c96983a@googlegroups.com>
References: <bcd87cc3-d41c-4ce8-9d14-07b81c96983a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq=-ngCy_kNEYn3aNVuxbMy8x_y88ot_bg-cKYxQj2+hw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Sayth Renshaw <flebber.crue at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have got this dictionary comprehension and it works but how can I do it better?
>
> from collections import Counter
>
> def find_it(seq):
>      counts = dict(Counter(seq))
>      a = [(k, v) for k,v in counts.items() if v % 3 == 0]
>      return a[0][0]
>
> test_seq = [20,1,-1,2,-2,3,3,5,5,1,2,4,20,4,-1,-2,5]
>
> so this returns 5 which is great and the point of the problem I was doing.
>
> Can also do it like this
> def find_it(seq):
>      counts = dict(Counter(seq))
>      a = [(k) for k,v in counts.items() if v % 3 == 0]
>      return a[0]
>
> But the given problem states there will always only be one number appearing an odd number of times given that is there a neater way to get the answer?

Take a step back for a moment. Are you trying to find something that
appears an odd number of times, or a number of times that counts by
three? First figure that out, THEN see if there's a better way to do
what you're doing.

To find an unpaired number in linear time with minimal space, try
stepping through the list and either adding to a set or removing from
it. At the end, your set should contain exactly one element. I'll let
you write the actual code :)

ChrisA


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Mar  7 21:55:14 2017
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 02:55:14 +0000
Subject: Better way to do this dict comprehesion
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmq=-ngCy_kNEYn3aNVuxbMy8x_y88ot_bg-cKYxQj2+hw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bcd87cc3-d41c-4ce8-9d14-07b81c96983a@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmq=-ngCy_kNEYn3aNVuxbMy8x_y88ot_bg-cKYxQj2+hw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8636d078-224f-7a04-b4a1-acf269946377@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2017-03-08 02:37, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Sayth Renshaw <flebber.crue at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I have got this dictionary comprehension and it works but how can I do it better?
>>
>> from collections import Counter
>>
>> def find_it(seq):
>>      counts = dict(Counter(seq))
>>      a = [(k, v) for k,v in counts.items() if v % 3 == 0]
>>      return a[0][0]
>>
>> test_seq = [20,1,-1,2,-2,3,3,5,5,1,2,4,20,4,-1,-2,5]
>>
>> so this returns 5 which is great and the point of the problem I was doing.
>>
>> Can also do it like this
>> def find_it(seq):
>>      counts = dict(Counter(seq))
>>      a = [(k) for k,v in counts.items() if v % 3 == 0]
>>      return a[0]
>>
>> But the given problem states there will always only be one number appearing an odd number of times given that is there a neater way to get the answer?
>
> Take a step back for a moment. Are you trying to find something that
> appears an odd number of times, or a number of times that counts by
> three? First figure that out, THEN see if there's a better way to do
> what you're doing.
>
> To find an unpaired number in linear time with minimal space, try
> stepping through the list and either adding to a set or removing from
> it. At the end, your set should contain exactly one element. I'll let
> you write the actual code :)
>
Using Counter seems like a simpler way to me. I wouldn't bother about 
other ways unless that way wasn't "good enough" for some reason.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Mar  7 21:57:43 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 13:57:43 +1100
Subject: Better way to do this dict comprehesion
In-Reply-To: <8636d078-224f-7a04-b4a1-acf269946377@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <bcd87cc3-d41c-4ce8-9d14-07b81c96983a@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmq=-ngCy_kNEYn3aNVuxbMy8x_y88ot_bg-cKYxQj2+hw@mail.gmail.com>
 <8636d078-224f-7a04-b4a1-acf269946377@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpBwJ8KpfWZ90=1JhGgSzo6uHTnPtCRPKthiSWh2Vi0mw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 1:55 PM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> Using Counter seems like a simpler way to me. I wouldn't bother about other
> ways unless that way wasn't "good enough" for some reason.

Maybe. But without being sure what the goal is, it's hard to say.

ChrisA


From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Wed Mar  8 00:02:24 2017
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 21:02:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Better way to do this dict comprehesion
In-Reply-To: <mailman.193.1488940652.2612.python-list@python.org>
References: <bcd87cc3-d41c-4ce8-9d14-07b81c96983a@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmq=-ngCy_kNEYn3aNVuxbMy8x_y88ot_bg-cKYxQj2+hw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.193.1488940652.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43bc9a64-d343-48d6-a916-5d53b8e74cb9@googlegroups.com>


> > But the given problem states there will always only be one number appearing an odd number of times given that is there a neater way to get the answer?
> 
> Take a step back for a moment. Are you trying to find something that
> appears an odd number of times, or a number of times that counts by
> three? First figure that out, THEN see if there's a better way to do
> what you're doing.

A number that appears an odd number of times.

> 
> To find an unpaired number in linear time with minimal space, try
> stepping through the list and either adding to a set or removing from
> it. At the end, your set should contain exactly one element. I'll let
> you write the actual code :)
> 
> ChrisA

ChrisA the way it sounds through the list is like filter with map and a lambda. http://www.python-course.eu/lambda.php Haven't had a good go yet... will see how it goes.

Thanks

Sayth



From steve at pearwood.info  Wed Mar  8 02:32:29 2017
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Mar 2017 07:32:29 GMT
Subject: Unicode support in Python 2.7.8 - 16 bit
References: <o9nalg$o10$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <58bfb38d$0$1610$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 14:05:15 -0800, John Nagle wrote:

> How do I test if a Python 2.7.8 build was built for 32-bit Unicode? 

sys.maxunicode will be 1114111 if it is a "wide" (32-bit) build and 65535 
if it is a "narrow" (16-bit) build.

You can double-check with:

unichr(0x10FFFF)  # will raise ValueError in a narrow build

len(u'\U0010FFFF')  # return 1 in a wide build, or 2 in a narrow build


but the maxunicode test is the right way to do it.


> (I'm dealing with shared hosting, and I'm stuck with their provided
> versions.)
> 
> If I give this to Python 2.7.x:
> 
>      sy = u'\U0001f60f'
> 
> len(sy) is 1 on a Ubuntu 14.04LTS machine, but 2 on the Red Hat shared
> hosting machine.  I assume "1" indicates 32-bit Unicode capability, and
> "2" indicates 16-bit.
> It looks like  Python 2.x in 16-bit mode is using a UTF-16 pair
> encoding, like Java. Is that right?  

Correct.


> Is it documented somewhere?

https://docs.python.org/2/library/sys.html#sys.maxunicode

https://docs.python.org/3/library/sys.html#sys.maxunicode



Here's the PEP that introduced the distinction in the first place:

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0261/

And here's the PEP that removes the distinction once and for all (at 
least in CPython):

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0393/


I know the narrow/wide distinction was documented in the build 
instructions for when you compiled Python from source; that's obsolete 
since 3.3. I believe the compiler options were --enable-unicode=ucs4 and 
--enable-unicode=ucs2 (but don't quote me on that).


-- 
Steve


From steve at pearwood.info  Wed Mar  8 02:37:35 2017
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Mar 2017 07:37:35 GMT
Subject: Questions about API documentation
References: <c703b92c-6d77-43eb-afee-606e66e9ac66@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <58bfb4be$0$1610$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 17:06:03 -0800, selphiron wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I am trying to understand how to write good API documentation. 

Nice questions!

> 1) How much should I (or a documentation author in general) go into
> detail? I don?t want to bore experienced users, but I don?t want to
> scare beginners away either.

It depends on who you are writing documentation for. If you're writing a 
tutorial, you should go into less technical detail and more examples.

But generally I expect that the official documentation for a module or 
library should be aimed at experienced developers, not beginners. No need 
to babysit them and hold their hand through everything: you can assume 
they are competent at Python, but not experienced with your library.


> 2) Should I give a code example for each method and object?

I believe that every function, class and method should have two lots of 
documentation: the docstring, which is available for runtime 
introspection (e.g. using help(obj) at the interactive interpreter) and 
more extensive, detailed documentation for non-interactive use.

I try to include at least one simple example in the docstring of every 
method and function. This is both documentation and testing.

To me, doctests do not need to be exhaustive: no need to show every 
possible case or option. They are primarily documentation. But some 
people, including the writer of the original doctest module for Python 
Tim Peters, uses doctests as exhaustive unit tests.

Large, complex examples should go into the non-interactive docs (when 
needed). Simple examples should go into docstrings, but not necessarily 
into the regular documentation: it depends on *how* simple. For example, 
having demonstrated how x += 1 works in the docs, I probably wouldn't 
bother to do the same for x -= 1.

But that's a judgment call and I don't expect everyone will agree.



> 3) I recognize 2 different kinds of examples: Some are rather small and
> right under the object or method description and some are quite long and
> at the end of a module in a use case. Which kind is encouraged at which
> conditions?

Both, I would say. Use short examples for simple things, and larger 
examples for more complex things.




-- 
Steve


From dieter at handshake.de  Wed Mar  8 03:20:07 2017
From: dieter at handshake.de (dieter)
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2017 09:20:07 +0100
Subject: Questions about API documentation
References: <c703b92c-6d77-43eb-afee-606e66e9ac66@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <871su8i3ig.fsf@handshake.de>

selphiron at gmail.com writes:
> I am trying to understand how to write good API documentation. I have read ?7. Documenting Python? in the python developers guide [1] and skimmed the Doc-SIG email archives, but I still have some questions and I would appreciate your help. (Whenever I refer to me in the following questions, I mean documentation authors in general)

I fear that has much to do with preference -- both on the side
of the author as on the side of the user.

Personally, I prefer documentation of the following kind:

 * an overview document gives the grand picture (architecture, primary
   concepts, building blocks)

 * detail documentation is terse - based mainly on well chosen names
   with some additional information where this is necessary

 * if necessary, e.g. for a specific target audience, an additional
   document give usage/configuration examples

> 1) How much should I (or a documentation author in general) go into detail? I don?t want to bore experienced users, but I don?t want to scare beginners away either.

You go into details where a typical user would get at a loss without
the detail.

What is "typical" depends on your target audience.
It is more an experienced user when the target audience is
"senior developer" (e.g. for a module like "ctypes"); it is more a
beginner when the target audience is "occasional developer".

> 2) Should I give a code example for each method and object?

Only, if it is non trivial -- or in a separate document/part of the
documentation targeted at less experienced users.

> 3) I recognize 2 different kinds of examples: Some are rather small and right under the object or method description and some are quite long and at the end of a module in a use case. Which kind is encouraged at which conditions?

My preferences would say: the first kind is likely unnecessary
altogether. The second kind may be good in non obvious cases.

> 4) The documentation of the Python Standard Library is quite verbose or like a book / tutorial. Some other documentations like JavaDoc [2] or PerlDoc [3] use a more reference-like documentation. Why did Python choose a different approach? Was this discussed before?

The Python library documentation is rather heterogenous in this respect --
likely because many different people with different preferences have
contributed.

> 5) Do you have any other advice? Are there things I should be aware of?

I should say that there is a big camp with completely different
preferences from mine. I mean the "doctest" camp.
It favours to combine documentation and testing and
advices to have executable docstrings covering all test cases.
This gives a very detailed documentation.

As you can imagine I do not like this advice and the resulting
documentation at all. From my point of view, the requirements
for good documentation (overview, compactness, concept based)
are quite different from those for testing (completeness)
and for me such documentation is difficult to read.



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Mar  8 03:20:24 2017
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2017 09:20:24 +0100
Subject: Better way to do this dict comprehesion
References: <bcd87cc3-d41c-4ce8-9d14-07b81c96983a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <o9oes5$s8q$1@blaine.gmane.org>

Sayth Renshaw wrote:

> Hi
> 
> I have got this dictionary comprehension and it works but how can I do it
> better?

List comprehensions (that's what you have) are nice, but overused.

 
> from collections import Counter
> 
> def find_it(seq):
>      counts = dict(Counter(seq))

There is no need to convert Counter to dict.

>      a = [(k, v) for k,v in counts.items() if v % 3 == 0]
>      return a[0][0]
> 
> test_seq = [20,1,-1,2,-2,3,3,5,5,1,2,4,20,4,-1,-2,5]
> 
> so this returns 5 which is great and the point of the problem I was doing.
> 
> Can also do it like this
> def find_it(seq):
>      counts = dict(Counter(seq))
>      a = [(k) for k,v in counts.items() if v % 3 == 0]
>      return a[0]
> 
> But the given problem states there will always only be one number
> appearing an odd number of times given that is there a neater way to get
> the answer?

If you mean there is only one number satisfying the v % 3 == 0 condition 
then there is no need to go through the whole sequence. The clearest way to 
express that is

    for k, v in counts.items():
        if v % 3 == 0:
            return k
    raise ValueError

but

    it = (k for k, v in counts.items() if v % 3 == 0)
    try:
        return next(it)
    except StopIteration:
        pass
    raise ValueError

is also possible. The parens (...) instead of [...] make "it" generator 
expression which is evaluated lazily. 

Both alternatives shown above ensure that at least one value satisfies the 
condition "number of occurencies divides by three without rest". If you want 
to play it safe and verify that there is exactly one such key you may keep 
the listcomp, preferably that from your second implementation.

    a = [...]
    if len(a) != 1:
        raise ValueError
    return a[0]

or

    [result] = a  # will raise a ValueError if len(a) != 1

The complete code:

>>> from collections import Counter
>>> def find_it(seq):
...     [result] = [k for k, v in Counter(seq).items() if v % 3 == 0]
...     return result
... 
>>> test_seq = [20,1,-1,2,-2,3,3,5,5,1,2,4,20,4,-1,-2,5]
>>> find_it(test_seq)
5




From saatomic at keemail.me  Wed Mar  8 03:36:53 2017
From: saatomic at keemail.me (saatomic at keemail.me)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 09:36:53 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Alternative to signals in threads
Message-ID: <Keh34HN--3-0@keemail.me>

I've been unsuccessfully looking for an alternative for signals, that works in threads.

After updating a script of mine from being single-threaded to being multi-threaded, I realised that signals do not work in threads.

I've used signals to handle blocking operations that possibly take forever like:


signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, wait_timeout)
# wait_timeout simply does: raise Exception("timeout")
signal.setitimer(signal.ITIMER_REAL,5)
# So a timer of 5 seconds start and I run my operation
try:
??? ?? p = Popen(["tool", "--param"], stdin=PIPE, stdout=PIPE, stderr=STDOUT)
??? ?? for line in p.stdout:
??? ?????? ??? if "STRING" in str(line):
??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?? signal.setitimer(signal.ITIMER_REAL,0)
??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?? p.terminate()
??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?? print("Success")
except:
??? ?? p.terminate()
??? ?? print("Timeout")


Now this works great with a single thread, but doesn't work at all with multiple threads.
A more throughout example can be found here: https://gist.github.com/saatomic/841ddf9c5142a7c75b03daececa8eb17 

What can I use instead of signals in this case?

Thanks and kind regards,
SaAtomic


From yanyouhui at gmail.com  Wed Mar  8 04:03:13 2017
From: yanyouhui at gmail.com (yanyouhui at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 01:03:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Run Python in iPad/iPhone
Message-ID: <70b50a7d-3cfd-4cae-8197-07701b3e18fb@googlegroups.com>

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https://itunes.apple.com/cn/app/fen-xi-zhe/id1083042861?mt=8

If you just want get a testing version, pls let me know the email address of your Apple ID. 


From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Wed Mar  8 04:52:30 2017
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 01:52:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Better way to do this dict comprehesion
In-Reply-To: <mailman.197.1488961247.2612.python-list@python.org>
References: <bcd87cc3-d41c-4ce8-9d14-07b81c96983a@googlegroups.com>
 <o9oes5$s8q$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.197.1488961247.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <412d91cb-e90c-4e08-a8f5-f2f1e25ce48a@googlegroups.com>

Peter I really like this

The complete code: 

>>> from collections import Counter 
>>> def find_it(seq): 
...     [result] = [k for k, v in Counter(seq).items() if v % 3 == 0] 
...     return result 
... 
>>> test_seq = [20,1,-1,2,-2,3,3,5,5,1,2,4,20,4,-1,-2,5] 
>>> find_it(test_seq) 

But what may be the smallest thing in this i had no idea I could do [result] = blah and get a generator on the return variable that seems insane.

Cheers

Sayth


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Mar  8 05:36:46 2017
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2017 11:36:46 +0100
Subject: Better way to do this dict comprehesion
References: <bcd87cc3-d41c-4ce8-9d14-07b81c96983a@googlegroups.com>
 <o9oes5$s8q$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.197.1488961247.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <412d91cb-e90c-4e08-a8f5-f2f1e25ce48a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <o9omrt$553$1@blaine.gmane.org>

Sayth Renshaw wrote:

> Peter I really like this
> 
> The complete code:
> 
>>>> from collections import Counter
>>>> def find_it(seq):
> ...     [result] = [k for k, v in Counter(seq).items() if v % 3 == 0]
> ...     return result
> ...
>>>> test_seq = [20,1,-1,2,-2,3,3,5,5,1,2,4,20,4,-1,-2,5]
>>>> find_it(test_seq)
> 
> But what may be the smallest thing in this i had no idea I could do
> [result] = blah and get a generator on the return variable that seems
> insane.

Usually this is done with tuples

>>> left, sep, right = "foo.bar".partition(".")  # looks familiar?

rather than the alternative spelling

>>> [left, sep, right] = "foo.bar".partition(".")

However, a 1-tuple is just a trailing comma and easy to overlook, so i 
prefer

>>> items = [42]
>>> [foo] = items
>>> foo
42

over

>>> bar, = items
>>> bar
42




From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Wed Mar  8 06:57:05 2017
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2017 13:57:05 +0200
Subject: Better way to do this dict comprehesion
References: <bcd87cc3-d41c-4ce8-9d14-07b81c96983a@googlegroups.com>
 <o9oes5$s8q$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.197.1488961247.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <412d91cb-e90c-4e08-a8f5-f2f1e25ce48a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <lf5innkkmlq.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Sayth Renshaw writes:

> Peter I really like this
>
> The complete code: 
>
>>>> from collections import Counter 
>>>> def find_it(seq): 
> ...     [result] = [k for k, v in Counter(seq).items() if v % 3 == 0] 
> ...     return result 

You confirmed to Chris that you want the item that occurs an odd number
of times. The test for that is v % 2 == 1.

Or just v % 2, given that 0 and 1 are considered false and true, resp.

But v % 3 == 0 is something else.


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Wed Mar  8 07:13:04 2017
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2017 14:13:04 +0200
Subject: Better way to do this dict comprehesion
References: <bcd87cc3-d41c-4ce8-9d14-07b81c96983a@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmq=-ngCy_kNEYn3aNVuxbMy8x_y88ot_bg-cKYxQj2+hw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.193.1488940652.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <43bc9a64-d343-48d6-a916-5d53b8e74cb9@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <lf5efy8klv3.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Sayth Renshaw writes:

>> To find an unpaired number in linear time with minimal space, try
>> stepping through the list and either adding to a set or removing from
>> it. At the end, your set should contain exactly one element. I'll let
>> you write the actual code :)
>> 
>> ChrisA
>
> ChrisA the way it sounds through the list is like filter with map and
> a lambda. http://www.python-course.eu/lambda.php Haven't had a good go
> yet... will see how it goes.

You mean reduce(xor, map(lambda o : {o}. With suitable imports.

I think Chris is suggesting the same thing but in the piecemeal way of
updating a set at each element. You can test for membership, o in res,
and then res.add(o) or res.remove(o) depending on the test.

And you need to say set() to make an empty set, because {} is dict().
Your input sequence is guaranteed non-empty, but it's simply easier to
start with an empty res.


From cl at isbd.net  Wed Mar  8 14:27:17 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 19:27:17 +0000
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a specified
 order?
Message-ID: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

I have a fairly simple application that populates a GUI window with
fields from a database table.  The fields are defined/configured by a
dictionary as follows:-

    # 
    # 
    # Address Book field details, dictionary key is the database column 
    # 
    dbcol = {}
    dbcol['firstname'] = col('First Name', True, False)
    dbcol['lastname'] = col('Last Name', True, False)
    dbcol['email'] = col('E-Mail', True, True)
    dbcol['phone'] = col('Phone', True, True)
    dbcol['mobile'] = col('Mobile', True, True)
    dbcol['address'] = col('Address', True, False)
    dbcol['town'] = col('Town/City', True, False)
    dbcol['county'] = col('County/Region', True, False)
    dbcol['postcode'] = col('PostCode', True, False)
    dbcol['country'] = col('Country', True, False)
    dbcol['notes'] = col('Notes', True, False)
    dbcol['www'] = col('Web Page', True, True)
    dbcol['categories'] = col('Categories', True, True)

How can I get the fields in the GUI window in the order I want rather
than the fairly random order that they appear in at the moment?

Currently the GUI fields are populated by a for loop as follows:-

    # 
    # 
    # Put values into the fields 
    # 
    i = 0
    for col, field in abookdb.dbcol.items():
        print(field.heading)
        if (i > numkeys/2):
            self.addfieldentry(col, address, field, self.rtable, i-numkeys/2)
        else:
            self.addfieldentry(col, address, field, self.ltable, i)
        i = i + 1

The for loop gets the items from the dictionary in an order that isn't
what I want.  How can I configure things so they're in the order I want?

-- 
Chris Green
?


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Mar  8 14:40:48 2017
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2017 11:40:48 -0800
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
In-Reply-To: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <58C05E40.80807@stoneleaf.us>

On 03/08/2017 11:27 AM, Chris Green wrote:

> The for loop gets the items from the dictionary in an order that isn't
> what I want.  How can I configure things so they're in the order I want?

What order do you want?

--
~Ethan~



From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Wed Mar  8 14:48:13 2017
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2017 21:48:13 +0200
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <lf5lgsfh7nm.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Chris Green writes:

> I have a fairly simple application that populates a GUI window with
> fields from a database table.  The fields are defined/configured by a
> dictionary as follows:-
>
>     # 
>     # 
>     # Address Book field details, dictionary key is the database column 
>     # 
>     dbcol = {}
>     dbcol['firstname'] = col('First Name', True, False)
>     dbcol['lastname'] = col('Last Name', True, False)
>     dbcol['email'] = col('E-Mail', True, True)
>     dbcol['phone'] = col('Phone', True, True)
>     dbcol['mobile'] = col('Mobile', True, True)
>     dbcol['address'] = col('Address', True, False)
>     dbcol['town'] = col('Town/City', True, False)
>     dbcol['county'] = col('County/Region', True, False)
>     dbcol['postcode'] = col('PostCode', True, False)
>     dbcol['country'] = col('Country', True, False)
>     dbcol['notes'] = col('Notes', True, False)
>     dbcol['www'] = col('Web Page', True, True)
>     dbcol['categories'] = col('Categories', True, True)
>
> How can I get the fields in the GUI window in the order I want rather
> than the fairly random order that they appear in at the moment?

Look up OrderedDict in the collections module.


From cl at isbd.net  Wed Mar  8 15:23:35 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 20:23:35 +0000
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu> <58C05E40.80807@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.200.1489002038.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7r56pd-6ag.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> On 03/08/2017 11:27 AM, Chris Green wrote:
> 
> > The for loop gets the items from the dictionary in an order that isn't
> > what I want.  How can I configure things so they're in the order I want?
> 
> What order do you want?
> 
Well probably the First Name and Last Name, then phone or E-Mail.  But
it hardly matters, I just want to be able to specify the order.

-- 
Chris Green
?


From cl at isbd.net  Wed Mar  8 15:28:07 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 20:28:07 +0000
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu> <lf5lgsfh7nm.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <n366pd-6ag.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

Jussi Piitulainen <jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi> wrote:
> Chris Green writes:
> 
> > I have a fairly simple application that populates a GUI window with
> > fields from a database table.  The fields are defined/configured by a
> > dictionary as follows:-
> >
> >     # 
> >     # 
> >     # Address Book field details, dictionary key is the database column 
> >     # 
> >     dbcol = {}
> >     dbcol['firstname'] = col('First Name', True, False)
> >     dbcol['lastname'] = col('Last Name', True, False)
> >     dbcol['email'] = col('E-Mail', True, True)
> >     dbcol['phone'] = col('Phone', True, True)
> >     dbcol['mobile'] = col('Mobile', True, True)
> >     dbcol['address'] = col('Address', True, False)
> >     dbcol['town'] = col('Town/City', True, False)
> >     dbcol['county'] = col('County/Region', True, False)
> >     dbcol['postcode'] = col('PostCode', True, False)
> >     dbcol['country'] = col('Country', True, False)
> >     dbcol['notes'] = col('Notes', True, False)
> >     dbcol['www'] = col('Web Page', True, True)
> >     dbcol['categories'] = col('Categories', True, True)
> >
> > How can I get the fields in the GUI window in the order I want rather
> > than the fairly random order that they appear in at the moment?
> 
> Look up OrderedDict in the collections module.

Thanks, that's what I need.

-- 
Chris Green
?


From gvmcmt at gmail.com  Wed Mar  8 15:42:45 2017
From: gvmcmt at gmail.com (gvmcmt at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 12:42:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
In-Reply-To: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <6f9ad905-c632-4759-8bd1-ccd80dedbf74@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 1:03:31 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Green wrote:
> I have a fairly simple application that populates a GUI window with
> fields from a database table.  The fields are defined/configured by a
> dictionary as follows:-
> 
>     # 
>     # 
>     # Address Book field details, dictionary key is the database column 
>     # 
>     dbcol = {}
>     dbcol['firstname'] = col('First Name', True, False)
>     dbcol['lastname'] = col('Last Name', True, False)
>     dbcol['email'] = col('E-Mail', True, True)
>     dbcol['phone'] = col('Phone', True, True)
>     dbcol['mobile'] = col('Mobile', True, True)
>     dbcol['address'] = col('Address', True, False)
>     dbcol['town'] = col('Town/City', True, False)
>     dbcol['county'] = col('County/Region', True, False)
>     dbcol['postcode'] = col('PostCode', True, False)
>     dbcol['country'] = col('Country', True, False)
>     dbcol['notes'] = col('Notes', True, False)
>     dbcol['www'] = col('Web Page', True, True)
>     dbcol['categories'] = col('Categories', True, True)
> 
> How can I get the fields in the GUI window in the order I want rather
> than the fairly random order that they appear in at the moment?
> 
> Currently the GUI fields are populated by a for loop as follows:-
> 
>     # 
>     # 
>     # Put values into the fields 
>     # 
>     i = 0
>     for col, field in abookdb.dbcol.items():
>         print(field.heading)
>         if (i > numkeys/2):
>             self.addfieldentry(col, address, field, self.rtable, i-numkeys/2)
>         else:
>             self.addfieldentry(col, address, field, self.ltable, i)
>         i = i + 1
> 
> The for loop gets the items from the dictionary in an order that isn't
> what I want.  How can I configure things so they're in the order I want?
> 
> -- 
> Chris Green
> ?

There is OrderedDict.

https://docs.python.org/2/library/collections.html#collections.OrderedDict

https://docs.python.org/3/library/collections.html#collections.OrderedDict


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Mar  8 15:52:16 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 07:52:16 +1100
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
In-Reply-To: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqFKhd84R0zhEsaNJsYb1eyUNUvxciR1-4Y8oQox+q7Jg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Chris Green <cl at isbd.net> wrote:
>     dbcol['firstname'] = col('First Name', True, False)
>     dbcol['lastname'] = col('Last Name', True, False)

http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names/

ChrisA


From cl at isbd.net  Wed Mar  8 16:25:34 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 21:25:34 +0000
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAPTjJmqFKhd84R0zhEsaNJsYb1eyUNUvxciR1-4Y8oQox+q7Jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.201.1489006338.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ef96pd-gjh.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Chris Green <cl at isbd.net> wrote:
> >     dbcol['firstname'] = col('First Name', True, False)
> >     dbcol['lastname'] = col('Last Name', True, False)
> 
> http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names/
> 
Yes, I'm well aware of these issues, but it's my personal address book
so I can avoid many/most of them.

-- 
Chris Green
?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Mar  8 17:10:18 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 09:10:18 +1100
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
In-Reply-To: <ef96pd-gjh.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAPTjJmqFKhd84R0zhEsaNJsYb1eyUNUvxciR1-4Y8oQox+q7Jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.201.1489006338.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <ef96pd-gjh.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpy2BPBZrvfMunooTpbFnigRxa0SizPGCf1QaCg9eo2pg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 8:25 AM, Chris Green <cl at isbd.net> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Chris Green <cl at isbd.net> wrote:
>> >     dbcol['firstname'] = col('First Name', True, False)
>> >     dbcol['lastname'] = col('Last Name', True, False)
>>
>> http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names/
>>
> Yes, I'm well aware of these issues, but it's my personal address book
> so I can avoid many/most of them.

So you assume that you'll never meet someone from another culture?
Okay. I'm pretty sure that counts as bigoted, but sure :)

As a general rule, it's safest to just have a single "name" field and
have done with it.

ChrisA


From woooee at gmail.com  Wed Mar  8 21:25:46 2017
From: woooee at gmail.com (woooee at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 18:25:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Alternative to signals in threads
In-Reply-To: <mailman.198.1488962725.2612.python-list@python.org>
References: <Keh34HN--3-0@keemail.me>
 <mailman.198.1488962725.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f056b6a8-76f0-42e1-8748-87907b12de64@googlegroups.com>

Use multiprocessing since you want to do multiple things at once https://pymotw.com/2/multiprocessing/basics.html  If I understand you correctly, once the string is found you would terminate the process, so you would have to signal the calling portion of the code using a Manager dictionary or list..  I am not that knowledgeable about multiprocessing, so this is probably the long way around the barn.
import time
from multiprocessing import Process, Manager


def test_f(test_d):
   ctr=0
   while True:
      ctr += 1
      print "test_f", test_d["QUIT"], ctr
      time.sleep(1.0)
      if ctr > 5:
         test_d["QUIT"]=True
  
if __name__ == '__main__':
   ## define the dictionary to be used to communicate
   manager = Manager()
   test_d = manager.dict()
   test_d["QUIT"] = False

   ## start the process
   p = Process(target=test_f, args=(test_d,))
   p.start()
   
   ## check the dictionary every half-second
   while not test_d["QUIT"]:
      time.sleep(0.5)
   p.terminate()


From torriem at gmail.com  Wed Mar  8 23:31:00 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 21:31:00 -0700
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
In-Reply-To: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <8f090d66-b3d2-00ac-ca5b-5745d96a11b7@gmail.com>

On 03/08/2017 12:27 PM, Chris Green wrote:
> I have a fairly simple application that populates a GUI window with
> fields from a database table.  The fields are defined/configured by a
> dictionary as follows:-

Instead of ordering the data in Python, why not rely on the GUI to do
the sort?  Most GUI's even have table widgets that let you click on the
headings to sort arbitrarily.



From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Thu Mar  9 03:45:11 2017
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 08:45:11 +0000
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpy2BPBZrvfMunooTpbFnigRxa0SizPGCf1QaCg9eo2pg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAPTjJmqFKhd84R0zhEsaNJsYb1eyUNUvxciR1-4Y8oQox+q7Jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.201.1489006338.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <ef96pd-gjh.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAPTjJmpy2BPBZrvfMunooTpbFnigRxa0SizPGCf1QaCg9eo2pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41da927-07d2-e06b-4971-5d31b426f493@timgolden.me.uk>

On 08/03/2017 22:10, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 8:25 AM, Chris Green <cl at isbd.net> wrote:
>> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Chris Green <cl at isbd.net> wrote:
>>>>     dbcol['firstname'] = col('First Name', True, False)
>>>>     dbcol['lastname'] = col('Last Name', True, False)
>>>
>>> http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names/
>>>
>> Yes, I'm well aware of these issues, but it's my personal address book
>> so I can avoid many/most of them.
>
> So you assume that you'll never meet someone from another culture?
> Okay. I'm pretty sure that counts as bigoted, but sure :)

Chris: I think that remark was uncalled for. You'd made a perfectly 
valid point about names not always working how we think. At that point, 
I think it's up to each person to decide their own approach based on 
their own knowledge of their own circumstances.

TJG


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Mar  9 04:01:43 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 20:01:43 +1100
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
In-Reply-To: <c41da927-07d2-e06b-4971-5d31b426f493@timgolden.me.uk>
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAPTjJmqFKhd84R0zhEsaNJsYb1eyUNUvxciR1-4Y8oQox+q7Jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.201.1489006338.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <ef96pd-gjh.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAPTjJmpy2BPBZrvfMunooTpbFnigRxa0SizPGCf1QaCg9eo2pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <c41da927-07d2-e06b-4971-5d31b426f493@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqucZh=zEe8WKifXuZPAZtSdwLnuSoG4FixtQhUepg7AQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
>> So you assume that you'll never meet someone from another culture?
>> Okay. I'm pretty sure that counts as bigoted, but sure :)
>
>
> Chris: I think that remark was uncalled for. You'd made a perfectly valid
> point about names not always working how we think. At that point, I think
> it's up to each person to decide their own approach based on their own
> knowledge of their own circumstances.

Yep. He's free to assume that not one of his friends will be from any
culture other than his own. It just happens to be a bigoted viewpoint.

I wonder, would people treat it differently if the address book took a
traditional binary view of gender, and required that everyone be
precisely "male" or "female"? Would that be called bigoted, or is it
perfectly reasonable to demand that all of your friends fit this?

ChrisA


From therealmushmouth at gmail.com  Thu Mar  9 04:24:16 2017
From: therealmushmouth at gmail.com (Patrick McFarling)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 01:24:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Web Frameworks
Message-ID: <d294a664-77a4-4064-aa16-18cf6c801ffc@googlegroups.com>

I would like to know what are the pros and cons of the web frameworks made in python.
The one I tend to lean towards is Flask.


From david.froger.ml at mailoo.org  Thu Mar  9 04:49:50 2017
From: david.froger.ml at mailoo.org (David Froger)
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2017 10:49:50 +0100
Subject: Web Frameworks
In-Reply-To: <d294a664-77a4-4064-aa16-18cf6c801ffc@googlegroups.com>
References: <d294a664-77a4-4064-aa16-18cf6c801ffc@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <148905299090.7517.11776694963655039718@david.securactive.lan>

There is a free ebook on the subject on O'Reilly:
http://www.oreilly.com/web-platform/free/python-web-frameworks.csp

Hope it helps,
David


Quoting Patrick McFarling (2017-03-09 10:24:16)
> I would like to know what are the pros and cons of the web frameworks made in python.
> The one I tend to lean towards is Flask.
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Thu Mar  9 04:58:18 2017
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 10:58:18 +0100
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqucZh=zEe8WKifXuZPAZtSdwLnuSoG4FixtQhUepg7AQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAPTjJmqFKhd84R0zhEsaNJsYb1eyUNUvxciR1-4Y8oQox+q7Jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.201.1489006338.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <ef96pd-gjh.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAPTjJmpy2BPBZrvfMunooTpbFnigRxa0SizPGCf1QaCg9eo2pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <c41da927-07d2-e06b-4971-5d31b426f493@timgolden.me.uk>
 <CAPTjJmqucZh=zEe8WKifXuZPAZtSdwLnuSoG4FixtQhUepg7AQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fb4c8f83-330f-28cd-a9f9-6f2ce8f9da9a@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 09-03-17 om 10:01 schreef Chris Angelico:
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
>>> So you assume that you'll never meet someone from another culture?
>>> Okay. I'm pretty sure that counts as bigoted, but sure :)
>>
>> Chris: I think that remark was uncalled for. You'd made a perfectly valid
>> point about names not always working how we think. At that point, I think
>> it's up to each person to decide their own approach based on their own
>> knowledge of their own circumstances.
> Yep. He's free to assume that not one of his friends will be from any
> culture other than his own. It just happens to be a bigoted viewpoint.

He didn't make that assumption.

-- 
Antoon Pardon



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Mar  9 06:32:33 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 22:32:33 +1100
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
In-Reply-To: <fb4c8f83-330f-28cd-a9f9-6f2ce8f9da9a@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAPTjJmqFKhd84R0zhEsaNJsYb1eyUNUvxciR1-4Y8oQox+q7Jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.201.1489006338.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <ef96pd-gjh.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAPTjJmpy2BPBZrvfMunooTpbFnigRxa0SizPGCf1QaCg9eo2pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <c41da927-07d2-e06b-4971-5d31b426f493@timgolden.me.uk>
 <CAPTjJmqucZh=zEe8WKifXuZPAZtSdwLnuSoG4FixtQhUepg7AQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <fb4c8f83-330f-28cd-a9f9-6f2ce8f9da9a@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqvz-kbCcw=Bf2VDquN-hBpJvM8twZVLV7+XdOc+wq6Ww@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 8:58 PM, Antoon Pardon
<antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
> Op 09-03-17 om 10:01 schreef Chris Angelico:
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
>>>> So you assume that you'll never meet someone from another culture?
>>>> Okay. I'm pretty sure that counts as bigoted, but sure :)
>>>
>>> Chris: I think that remark was uncalled for. You'd made a perfectly valid
>>> point about names not always working how we think. At that point, I think
>>> it's up to each person to decide their own approach based on their own
>>> knowledge of their own circumstances.
>> Yep. He's free to assume that not one of his friends will be from any
>> culture other than his own. It just happens to be a bigoted viewpoint.
>
> He didn't make that assumption.

He did.

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 8:25 AM, Chris Green <cl at isbd.net> wrote:
> Yes, I'm well aware of these issues, but it's my personal address book
> so I can avoid many/most of them.

The justification "it's *my* personal address book" is saying "none of
*my* friends have weird names, so I'm fine". So, yeah, he did. This is
a design flaw on par with assuming that a byte is identical to a
character; you can pretend it so long as you don't get any "funny
characters". And then you can blame the non-ASCII characters for
breaking your program, or force someone's name to fit into your
predefined scheme.

ChrisA


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Thu Mar  9 07:06:58 2017
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:06:58 +0100
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqvz-kbCcw=Bf2VDquN-hBpJvM8twZVLV7+XdOc+wq6Ww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAPTjJmqFKhd84R0zhEsaNJsYb1eyUNUvxciR1-4Y8oQox+q7Jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.201.1489006338.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <ef96pd-gjh.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAPTjJmpy2BPBZrvfMunooTpbFnigRxa0SizPGCf1QaCg9eo2pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <c41da927-07d2-e06b-4971-5d31b426f493@timgolden.me.uk>
 <CAPTjJmqucZh=zEe8WKifXuZPAZtSdwLnuSoG4FixtQhUepg7AQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <fb4c8f83-330f-28cd-a9f9-6f2ce8f9da9a@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmqvz-kbCcw=Bf2VDquN-hBpJvM8twZVLV7+XdOc+wq6Ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87fb0788-f071-2d3f-963b-ef6f8c646bb3@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 09-03-17 om 12:32 schreef Chris Angelico:

> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 8:25 AM, Chris Green <cl at isbd.net> wrote:
>> Yes, I'm well aware of these issues, but it's my personal address book
>> so I can avoid many/most of them.
> The justification "it's *my* personal address book" is saying "none of
> *my* friends have weird names, so I'm fine". So, yeah, he did.

No he didn't, you are reading conclusions into his words that aren't
there. An other possibility is that it is his personal address book,
so he is at liberty to handle those weird names as he sees fit. He
doesn't own anyone an explanation of how he organises his own personal
address book.

Just because you can only think of one conclusion to draw from his words,
doesn't mean that is the only possible conclusion.

-- 
Antoon Pardon.




From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Mar  9 07:16:32 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 23:16:32 +1100
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
In-Reply-To: <87fb0788-f071-2d3f-963b-ef6f8c646bb3@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAPTjJmqFKhd84R0zhEsaNJsYb1eyUNUvxciR1-4Y8oQox+q7Jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.201.1489006338.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <ef96pd-gjh.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAPTjJmpy2BPBZrvfMunooTpbFnigRxa0SizPGCf1QaCg9eo2pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <c41da927-07d2-e06b-4971-5d31b426f493@timgolden.me.uk>
 <CAPTjJmqucZh=zEe8WKifXuZPAZtSdwLnuSoG4FixtQhUepg7AQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <fb4c8f83-330f-28cd-a9f9-6f2ce8f9da9a@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmqvz-kbCcw=Bf2VDquN-hBpJvM8twZVLV7+XdOc+wq6Ww@mail.gmail.com>
 <87fb0788-f071-2d3f-963b-ef6f8c646bb3@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq0zYzP7BmuZ7LYf1-W9gkd=HNDzFjW=uF-ZFJGUp6N2Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 11:06 PM, Antoon Pardon
<antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
> Op 09-03-17 om 12:32 schreef Chris Angelico:
>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 8:25 AM, Chris Green <cl at isbd.net> wrote:
>>> Yes, I'm well aware of these issues, but it's my personal address book
>>> so I can avoid many/most of them.
>> The justification "it's *my* personal address book" is saying "none of
>> *my* friends have weird names, so I'm fine". So, yeah, he did.
>
> No he didn't, you are reading conclusions into his words that aren't
> there. An other possibility is that it is his personal address book,
> so he is at liberty to handle those weird names as he sees fit. He
> doesn't own anyone an explanation of how he organises his own personal
> address book.
>

You're still assuming that there are such things as "weird names". As
of Python 3, we've finally moved beyond the notion that there are
"weird characters" that don't fit into our nice tidy system where one
character is the same as one byte. We need to give people's names the
same courtesy. They are not "weird" names. They are 100% legitimate
names that should be welcomed into any system that accepts names.

(That said, though, I think it's not unreasonable to demand that names
be represented entirely in Unicode - falsehood #11 - as it's extremely
hard to deal with non-Unicode text. But you have to understand that
you'll be asking some number of people to represent themselves
differently for the convenience of your code.)

ChrisA


From cl at isbd.net  Thu Mar  9 08:03:54 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:03:54 +0000
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAPTjJmqFKhd84R0zhEsaNJsYb1eyUNUvxciR1-4Y8oQox+q7Jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.201.1489006338.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <ef96pd-gjh.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAPTjJmpy2BPBZrvfMunooTpbFnigRxa0SizPGCf1QaCg9eo2pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.203.1489011021.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qe08pd-mk4.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 8:25 AM, Chris Green <cl at isbd.net> wrote:
> > Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Chris Green <cl at isbd.net> wrote:
> >> >     dbcol['firstname'] = col('First Name', True, False)
> >> >     dbcol['lastname'] = col('Last Name', True, False)
> >>
> >> http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names/
> >>
> > Yes, I'm well aware of these issues, but it's my personal address book
> > so I can avoid many/most of them.
> 
> So you assume that you'll never meet someone from another culture?
> Okay. I'm pretty sure that counts as bigoted, but sure :)
> 
> As a general rule, it's safest to just have a single "name" field and
> have done with it.
> 
Which doesn't work at all for me as I want to:-

    Sort on family/last name
    Separate first and family name so I can write addresses etc.

I've lived in quite a few different places where names are not
formatted like ours.  I'm aiming to add 'nameprefix' and 'namesuffix'
fields to handle different formats more completely, the layout I
showed here is just a prototype.

-- 
Chris Green
?


From cl at isbd.net  Thu Mar  9 08:07:51 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:07:51 +0000
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAPTjJmqFKhd84R0zhEsaNJsYb1eyUNUvxciR1-4Y8oQox+q7Jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.201.1489006338.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <ef96pd-gjh.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAPTjJmpy2BPBZrvfMunooTpbFnigRxa0SizPGCf1QaCg9eo2pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <c41da927-07d2-e06b-4971-5d31b426f493@timgolden.me.uk>
 <CAPTjJmqucZh=zEe8WKifXuZPAZtSdwLnuSoG4FixtQhUepg7AQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.208.1489050111.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7m08pd-mk4.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
> >> So you assume that you'll never meet someone from another culture?
> >> Okay. I'm pretty sure that counts as bigoted, but sure :)
> >
> >
> > Chris: I think that remark was uncalled for. You'd made a perfectly valid
> > point about names not always working how we think. At that point, I think
> > it's up to each person to decide their own approach based on their own
> > knowledge of their own circumstances.
> 
> Yep. He's free to assume that not one of his friends will be from any
> culture other than his own. It just happens to be a bigoted viewpoint.
> 
I think I probably have more friends from 'other cultures' than most
as I lived in the arab world for ten years and have spent a
considerable time in various other places too.

I personally am not upset when people elsewhere have a problem with my
name because it doesn't fit *their* norms so I don't expect them to
get all upset when the same happens the other way around.  It's
inevitable that things like this will happen, one just lives with it
or works around it.

-- 
Chris Green
?


From cl at isbd.net  Thu Mar  9 08:09:50 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:09:50 +0000
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <8f090d66-b3d2-00ac-ca5b-5745d96a11b7@gmail.com>
 <mailman.205.1489033871.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <up08pd-mk4.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 03/08/2017 12:27 PM, Chris Green wrote:
> > I have a fairly simple application that populates a GUI window with
> > fields from a database table.  The fields are defined/configured by a
> > dictionary as follows:-
> 
> Instead of ordering the data in Python, why not rely on the GUI to do
> the sort?  Most GUI's even have table widgets that let you click on the
> headings to sort arbitrarily.
> 
How would it sort it?  The order I want is arbitrary, or at least not
alphabetical or anything, I just want the order to be the way I
listed it.

-- 
Chris Green
?


From borysova.mary at gmail.com  Thu Mar  9 08:34:21 2017
From: borysova.mary at gmail.com (borysova.mary at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 05:34:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Database security tool for Python apps with PostgreSQL backend.
Message-ID: <088e9111-9dba-476b-8961-6b3418d1f799@googlegroups.com>

Database security tool for Python apps with PostgreSQL backend: https://www.cossacklabs.com/blog/presenting-acra.html


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Thu Mar  9 08:58:25 2017
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:58:25 +0100
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmq0zYzP7BmuZ7LYf1-W9gkd=HNDzFjW=uF-ZFJGUp6N2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAPTjJmqFKhd84R0zhEsaNJsYb1eyUNUvxciR1-4Y8oQox+q7Jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.201.1489006338.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <ef96pd-gjh.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAPTjJmpy2BPBZrvfMunooTpbFnigRxa0SizPGCf1QaCg9eo2pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <c41da927-07d2-e06b-4971-5d31b426f493@timgolden.me.uk>
 <CAPTjJmqucZh=zEe8WKifXuZPAZtSdwLnuSoG4FixtQhUepg7AQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <fb4c8f83-330f-28cd-a9f9-6f2ce8f9da9a@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmqvz-kbCcw=Bf2VDquN-hBpJvM8twZVLV7+XdOc+wq6Ww@mail.gmail.com>
 <87fb0788-f071-2d3f-963b-ef6f8c646bb3@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmq0zYzP7BmuZ7LYf1-W9gkd=HNDzFjW=uF-ZFJGUp6N2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3ce5cf56-a403-4130-8cbf-747a743148b0@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 09-03-17 om 13:16 schreef Chris Angelico:
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 11:06 PM, Antoon Pardon
> <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>> Op 09-03-17 om 12:32 schreef Chris Angelico:
>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 8:25 AM, Chris Green <cl at isbd.net> wrote:
>>>> Yes, I'm well aware of these issues, but it's my personal address book
>>>> so I can avoid many/most of them.
>>> The justification "it's *my* personal address book" is saying "none of
>>> *my* friends have weird names, so I'm fine". So, yeah, he did.
>> No he didn't, you are reading conclusions into his words that aren't
>> there. An other possibility is that it is his personal address book,
>> so he is at liberty to handle those weird names as he sees fit. He
>> doesn't own anyone an explanation of how he organises his own personal
>> address book.
>>
> You're still assuming that there are such things as "weird names".

You are the one that started to use the word "weird". Please don't
draw conclusions about what I assume, just because I followed your
word choice.

> As
> of Python 3, we've finally moved beyond the notion that there are
> "weird characters" that don't fit into our nice tidy system where one
> character is the same as one byte. We need to give people's names the
> same courtesy. They are not "weird" names. They are 100% legitimate
> names that should be welcomed into any system that accepts names.
>
> (That said, though, I think it's not unreasonable to demand that names
> be represented entirely in Unicode - falsehood #11 - as it's extremely
> hard to deal with non-Unicode text. But you have to understand that
> you'll be asking some number of people to represent themselves
> differently for the convenience of your code.)

But you don't know whether he is using unicode or not. And if he is not,
it still is his own personal address book and he is allowed to transliterate
the names he enters any way he likes. If he has a French friend with the
name "Pi?rre", he is allowed to enter it as "Pjair" in his personal address
book if he thinks that would help him to pronounce it more correctly.

So he is not asking a number of people to represent themselves differently
because this is not something for different people to use, it is his personal
address book.

-- 
Antoon Pardon.



From dbastos at toledo.com  Thu Mar  9 13:44:23 2017
From: dbastos at toledo.com (Daniel Bastos)
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2017 15:44:23 -0300
Subject: "Best" websocket implementation for Python 2.x?
References: <CANc-5UxrY4ZwxW4rhTbXHbOHD5NscstgAZ3-Edk8TBCaDU-3zA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.128.1481127977.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <86tw72guig.fsf@toledo.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip.montanaro at gmail.com> writes:

[...]

> These two packages would appear to have stalled. Looking around, I also
> found
>
> ws4py
> websockets - Python 3.3 or later
> autobahn.websocket
>
> There are probably others I haven't yet stumbled upon. (I'd continue poking
> around PyPI, but it seems the server is having problems.)

It seems you didn't Tornado yet.
http://www.tornadoweb.org/en/stable/

[...]


From saxri89 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  9 14:15:18 2017
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 11:15:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python/gui question
Message-ID: <6d76725d-284e-4013-ac83-3e2c872352de@googlegroups.com>

i want to create a very simple python plugin using QT designer but i an not sure how to connect my variable from gui to my python script.
my gui is simple have only one lineEdit and ok or cancel.
in the gui (widget):

 <widget class="QLineEdit" name="lineEdit">
   <property name="geometry">
    <rect>
     <x>20</x>
     <y>90</y>
     <width>171</width>
     <height>31</height>
    </rect>
   </property>
  </widget>


def run(self):
    self.dlg.show()
    result = self.dlg.exec_()
    if result:
        distance = self.dlg.lineEdit.value()
        if distance == 0:
            #do something
        else:
            #do sothing else
        pass

i test this code but dont work dont show me anything. any idea ?


From therealmushmouth at gmail.com  Thu Mar  9 15:29:29 2017
From: therealmushmouth at gmail.com (Patrick McFarling)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 12:29:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Web Frameworks
In-Reply-To: <mailman.210.1489053926.2612.python-list@python.org>
References: <d294a664-77a4-4064-aa16-18cf6c801ffc@googlegroups.com>
 <148905299090.7517.11776694963655039718@david.securactive.lan>
 <mailman.210.1489053926.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <89d4810f-d48e-4cde-a83b-d71ea9d01c2b@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, 9 March 2017 05:05:37 UTC-5, David Froger  wrote:
> There is a free ebook on the subject on O'Reilly:
> http://www.oreilly.com/web-platform/free/python-web-frameworks.csp
> 
> Hope it helps,
> David
> 
> 
> Quoting Patrick McFarling (2017-03-09 10:24:16)
> > I would like to know what are the pros and cons of the web frameworks made in python.
> > The one I tend to lean towards is Flask.
> > -- 
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Thanks for the book!


From cl at isbd.net  Thu Mar  9 15:48:25 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 20:48:25 +0000
Subject: Gtk.Label text positioning
Message-ID: <plr8pd-sud.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

Is there any way to postion different lines of text in a Gtk.Label in
different ways?  

E.g. is it possible to centre one line of text and left justify the
remainder?

Or does one simply have two Gtk.Label instances, one with centred text
and one with left justified text. 

-- 
Chris Green
?


From hpj at urpla.net  Thu Mar  9 16:03:29 2017
From: hpj at urpla.net (Hans-Peter Jansen)
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2017 22:03:29 +0100
Subject: keyrings.cryptfile released on github
Message-ID: <2356566.kSNyJECJKv@xrated>

Hi,

since the PyCrypto ML is dead, I'm looking for advise/feedback from some
cryptography aware people.

I've released a keyring companion package today:

	https://github.com/frispete/keyrings.cryptfile

Its primary purpose is a decent encrypted file backend for python keyrings.
As such, it uses manually parameterized argon2 hashes as KDF, and AES in OCB 
mode as stream cipher (well, it just encrypts the password for a given 
service/user name). Granted, the advantages of OCB are not /that/ crucial 
here :wink:, but apart from technical factors, the exclusion of military uses 
by its license is rather *attractive* from my POV(!). But I'm open for 
discussions of course.

Still interested? Here we go:

To get you started, I expect you to have a python3 environment and git 
available. You might want to provide the packages argon2-cffi, keyring, 
pycryptodome and their dependencies (most notably SecretStorage and 
cryptography, or use a local venv, but that will depend on a compiler and some
development packages.

Example session, create an encrypted keyring:

$ git clone https://github.com/frispete/keyrings.cryptfile
$ cd keyrings.cryptfile
$ pyvenv env
$ . env/bin/activate
(env) $ pip install -e .
[...] # should succeed, some development packages might be missing otherwise
(env) $ python3
Python 3.4.5 (default, Jul 03 2016, 12:57:15) [GCC] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from keyrings.cryptfile.cryptfile import CryptFileKeyring
>>> kr = CryptFileKeyring()
>>> kr.set_password("service", "user", "secret")
Please set a password for your new keyring: 
Please confirm the password: 
>>> ^d

Second session, retrieve the stored secret from the keyring:

(env) $ python3
Python 3.4.5 (default, Jul 03 2016, 12:57:15) [GCC] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from keyrings.cryptfile.cryptfile import CryptFileKeyring
>>> kr = CryptFileKeyring()
>>> kr.get_password("service", "user")
Please enter password for encrypted keyring: 
'secret'
>>> ^d

Note, that the KDF might delay the {set,get}_password() operations for a 
few seconds (~1 sec. on a capable system).

The resulting file is located here (by default) and might look similar to:
(env) $ cat ~/.local/share/python_keyring/cryptfile_pass.cfg
[keyring_2Dsetting]
password_20reference = eyJub25jZSI6ICJQdVdWVUIwUHNYbEFqYUUxZ2l2RlxuIiwgIm1hYyI6ICIvVTFIVDBWTnRheTFl
        TjA5TVlHb0dRPT1cbiIsICJzYWx0IjogIklMdDNBU1hMUENrbWZ2NzFudmtBSUE9PVxuIiwgImRh
        dGEiOiAidW1EQkNvQ2dRUTk5WEVaNkZ4NWt3NXRkSUZDOHFIUE5ZOHhWXG4ifQ==
scheme = PyCryptodome [Argon2] AES OCB
version = 1.0

[service]
user = eyJub25jZSI6ICI5SUU3UGp2eDU2SXNQdHlLUGRtaFxuIiwgIm1hYyI6ICJKcFR1NXMxaDd0UGlW
        OW9XL3d5cFdBPT1cbiIsICJzYWx0IjogIlpBeEhJdXlqYnRuTkgzb3BMNTFvdkE9PVxuIiwgImRh
        dGEiOiAiT2I3Z1JJbXR5aVJLXG4ifQ==


The values can be decoded like this:

(env) $ python3
>>> import base64
>>> base64.decodebytes(b"""
... eyJub25jZSI6ICI5SUU3UGp2eDU2SXNQdHlLUGRtaFxuIiwgIm1hYyI6ICJKcFR1NXMxaDd0UGlW
... OW9XL3d5cFdBPT1cbiIsICJzYWx0IjogIlpBeEhJdXlqYnRuTkgzb3BMNTFvdkE9PVxuIiwgImRh
... dGEiOiAiT2I3Z1JJbXR5aVJLXG4ifQ==""")
b'{"nonce": "9IE7Pjvx56IsPtyKPdmh\\n", "mac": "JpTu5s1h7tPiV9oW/wypWA==\\n", 
   "salt": "ZAxHIuyjbtnNH3opL51ovA==\\n", "data": "Ob7gRImtyiRK\\n"}'

The items should be self explanatory. In theory, it should be considerable 
hard to get back to the plain values of data without knowing the password.

Any cryptography experts attending?

What do you think? The class hierarchy is inherited from keyrings.alt, and 
not exactly easy to follow, but the interesting parts are all in cryptfile,
which is quite brief.

I would be glad to hear something from you about my handling of cryptography. 
Is it ready for the public in that form or should I better locked away? :wink:

TIA,
Pete



From python at lucidity.plus.com  Thu Mar  9 17:30:01 2017
From: python at lucidity.plus.com (Erik)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 22:30:01 +0000
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
In-Reply-To: <up08pd-mk4.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <8f090d66-b3d2-00ac-ca5b-5745d96a11b7@gmail.com>
 <mailman.205.1489033871.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <up08pd-mk4.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <4c80c74c-16f3-26d5-0a31-2cdeef0216fa@lucidity.plus.com>

On 09/03/17 13:09, Chris Green wrote:
> Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 03/08/2017 12:27 PM, Chris Green wrote:
>>> I have a fairly simple application that populates a GUI window with
>>> fields from a database table.  The fields are defined/configured by a
>>> dictionary as follows:-
>>
>> Instead of ordering the data in Python, why not rely on the GUI to do
>> the sort?  Most GUI's even have table widgets that let you click on the
>> headings to sort arbitrarily.
>>
> How would it sort it?  The order I want is arbitrary, or at least not
> alphabetical or anything, I just want the order to be the way I
> listed it.

To be fair to Michael, you did not state your required order in the 
message that he replied to. You just kept saying "the order I want".

If you're going to make people guess, don't chastise them for guessing 
wrong :D

E.



From contact.ng0 at cryptolab.net  Thu Mar  9 18:09:09 2017
From: contact.ng0 at cryptolab.net (ng0)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 23:09:09 +0000
Subject: keyrings.cryptfile released on github
In-Reply-To: <2356566.kSNyJECJKv@xrated>
References: <2356566.kSNyJECJKv@xrated>
Message-ID: <20170309230909.hl3zg2llxazwiypu@abyayala>

Hans-Peter Jansen transcribed 3.8K bytes:
> Hi,
> 
> since the PyCrypto ML is dead, I'm looking for advise/feedback from some
> cryptography aware people.
> 
> I've released a keyring companion package today:
> 
> 	https://github.com/frispete/keyrings.cryptfile
> 
> Its primary purpose is a decent encrypted file backend for python keyrings.
> As such, it uses manually parameterized argon2 hashes as KDF, and AES in OCB 
> mode as stream cipher (well, it just encrypts the password for a given 
> service/user name). Granted, the advantages of OCB are not /that/ crucial 
> here :wink:, but apart from technical factors, the exclusion of military uses 

I was looking for some proprietary EULA or something else locked down license
and instead just saw the Expat license.  I assume that you are aware
that no anti-mil clause exists in co-existence with free software
licenses 
and your sentence was just written in an
odd way?

> by its license is rather *attractive* from my POV(!). But I'm open for 
> discussions of course.
[...] 
> What do you think? The class hierarchy is inherited from keyrings.alt, and 
> not exactly easy to follow, but the interesting parts are all in cryptfile,
> which is quite brief.
> 
> I would be glad to hear something from you about my handling of cryptography. 
> Is it ready for the public in that form or should I better locked away? :wink:
> 
> TIA,
> Pete
> 
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Mar  9 19:24:12 2017
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2017 16:24:12 -0800
Subject: keyrings.cryptfile released on github
References: <2356566.kSNyJECJKv@xrated>
 <mailman.217.1489093419.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87h932t1w3.fsf@nightsong.com>

Hans-Peter Jansen <hpj at urpla.net> writes:
> I've released a keyring companion package today:
> 	https://github.com/frispete/keyrings.cryptfile

Interesting, I'll take a look at it.  I wrote something like it many
years ago but never did much with it.  Thanks for posting!


From loza_pl at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  9 21:38:22 2017
From: loza_pl at hotmail.com (Pablo Lozano)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 02:38:22 +0000
Subject: Unsubscribe to Python email list
Message-ID: <6DD74957-1E1E-4EB3-A1C0-EF7F26392411@hotmail.com>

Good day,

I would like to unsubscribe this e-mail to the Python e-mail list.

Kind regards

From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Mar  9 23:06:36 2017
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 04:06:36 +0000
Subject: Unsubscribe to Python email list
In-Reply-To: <6DD74957-1E1E-4EB3-A1C0-EF7F26392411@hotmail.com>
References: <6DD74957-1E1E-4EB3-A1C0-EF7F26392411@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <c4cb9a07-828e-1e03-24b1-339bacd6aa9c@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2017-03-10 02:38, Pablo Lozano wrote:
> Good day,
>
> I would like to unsubscribe this e-mail to the Python e-mail list.
>
> Kind regards
>
You'll have to do it yourself. Read this:

https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

The relevant bit is in the section titled "Python-list Subscribers".



From cl at isbd.net  Fri Mar 10 03:43:41 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 08:43:41 +0000
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <8f090d66-b3d2-00ac-ca5b-5745d96a11b7@gmail.com>
 <mailman.205.1489033871.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <up08pd-mk4.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <4c80c74c-16f3-26d5-0a31-2cdeef0216fa@lucidity.plus.com>
 <mailman.218.1489098617.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ti5apd-tas.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

Erik <python at lucidity.plus.com> wrote:
> On 09/03/17 13:09, Chris Green wrote:
> > Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 03/08/2017 12:27 PM, Chris Green wrote:
> >>> I have a fairly simple application that populates a GUI window with
> >>> fields from a database table.  The fields are defined/configured by a
> >>> dictionary as follows:-
> >>
> >> Instead of ordering the data in Python, why not rely on the GUI to do
> >> the sort?  Most GUI's even have table widgets that let you click on the
> >> headings to sort arbitrarily.
> >>
> > How would it sort it?  The order I want is arbitrary, or at least not
> > alphabetical or anything, I just want the order to be the way I
> > listed it.
> 
> To be fair to Michael, you did not state your required order in the 
> message that he replied to. You just kept saying "the order I want".
> 
> If you're going to make people guess, don't chastise them for guessing 
> wrong :D
> 
OK.  :-)

However how else can one describe an order which isn't 'sorted'? ...
other than as the order one wants?

-- 
Chris Green
?


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Mar 10 04:53:14 2017
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 01:53:14 -0800
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
In-Reply-To: <ti5apd-tas.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <8f090d66-b3d2-00ac-ca5b-5745d96a11b7@gmail.com>
 <mailman.205.1489033871.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <up08pd-mk4.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <4c80c74c-16f3-26d5-0a31-2cdeef0216fa@lucidity.plus.com>
 <mailman.218.1489098617.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <ti5apd-tas.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <58C2778A.60400@stoneleaf.us>

On 03/10/2017 12:43 AM, Chris Green wrote:
> Erik <python at lucidity.plus.com> wrote:
>> On 09/03/17 13:09, Chris Green wrote:
>>> Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 03/08/2017 12:27 PM, Chris Green wrote:
>>>>> I have a fairly simple application that populates a GUI window with
>>>>> fields from a database table.  The fields are defined/configured by a
>>>>> dictionary as follows:-
>>>>
>>>> Instead of ordering the data in Python, why not rely on the GUI to do
>>>> the sort?  Most GUI's even have table widgets that let you click on the
>>>> headings to sort arbitrarily.
>>>>
>>> How would it sort it?  The order I want is arbitrary, or at least not
>>> alphabetical or anything, I just want the order to be the way I
>>> listed it.
>>
>> To be fair to Michael, you did not state your required order in the
>> message that he replied to. You just kept saying "the order I want".
>>
>> If you're going to make people guess, don't chastise them for guessing
>> wrong :D
>>
> OK.  :-)
>
> However how else can one describe an order which isn't 'sorted'? ...
> other than as the order one wants?

I want the order to be the same as the order I enter them in.  ;)

--
~Ethan~




From amit at phpandmore.net  Fri Mar 10 05:37:49 2017
From: amit at phpandmore.net (Amit Yaron)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 12:37:49 +0200
Subject: Unsubscribe to Python email list
In-Reply-To: <6DD74957-1E1E-4EB3-A1C0-EF7F26392411@hotmail.com>
References: <6DD74957-1E1E-4EB3-A1C0-EF7F26392411@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <58C281FD.1040600@phpandmore.net>

On 10/03/17 04:38, Pablo Lozano wrote:
> Good day,
>
> I would like to unsubscribe this e-mail to the Python e-mail list.
>
> Kind regards
>
You can set "Mail Delivery" to "disable" if you want to read posts on 
the Usenet, but not to receive e-mails.


From amit at phpandmore.net  Fri Mar 10 05:37:49 2017
From: amit at phpandmore.net (Amit Yaron)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 12:37:49 +0200
Subject: Unsubscribe to Python email list
In-Reply-To: <6DD74957-1E1E-4EB3-A1C0-EF7F26392411@hotmail.com>
References: <6DD74957-1E1E-4EB3-A1C0-EF7F26392411@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <58C281FD.1040600@phpandmore.net>

On 10/03/17 04:38, Pablo Lozano wrote:
> Good day,
>
> I would like to unsubscribe this e-mail to the Python e-mail list.
>
> Kind regards
>
You can set "Mail Delivery" to "disable" if you want to read posts on 
the Usenet, but not to receive e-mails.



From hpj at urpla.net  Fri Mar 10 05:49:24 2017
From: hpj at urpla.net (Hans-Peter Jansen)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 11:49:24 +0100
Subject: keyrings.cryptfile released on github
In-Reply-To: <20170309230909.hl3zg2llxazwiypu@abyayala>
References: <2356566.kSNyJECJKv@xrated>
 <20170309230909.hl3zg2llxazwiypu@abyayala>
Message-ID: <4839007.k4Tbcrq13J@xrated>

On Donnerstag, 9. M?rz 2017 23:09:09 ng0 wrote:
> Hans-Peter Jansen transcribed 3.8K bytes:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > since the PyCrypto ML is dead, I'm looking for advise/feedback from some
> > cryptography aware people.
> > 
> > I've released a keyring companion package today:
> > 	https://github.com/frispete/keyrings.cryptfile
> > 
> > Its primary purpose is a decent encrypted file backend for python
> > keyrings.
> > As such, it uses manually parameterized argon2 hashes as KDF, and AES in
> > OCB mode as stream cipher (well, it just encrypts the password for a
> > given service/user name). Granted, the advantages of OCB are not /that/
> > crucial here :wink:, but apart from technical factors, the exclusion of
> > military uses
> I was looking for some proprietary EULA or something else locked down
> license and instead just saw the Expat license.

Don't get you here. Yes, the package contains just a MIT license file for now. 

> I assume that you are
> aware that no anti-mil clause exists in co-existence with free software
> licenses
> and your sentence was just written in an
> odd way?

First, bear with me, as I'm not a native speaker. Sometimes, my expressions 
tend to confuse people. I'm sorry about that. Second, I'm not a lawyer.

As long as I use OCB in OSS and does not sue somebody else about it, License 1 
is granted, if I read the OCB license options correctly [1]. Anyway, I will 
add the OCB license to the package and add a note in the initial password 
retrieval dialog about it..

In this projects state, I would like to discuss the technical issues first.
<OT> As said, I sympathize with the idea of the license, since I personally 
believe, that military conflicts doesn't solve any problems, but many todays 
problems originate from them.</OT>

[1] http://web.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/ocb/license.htm

> > by its license is rather *attractive* from my POV(!). But I'm open for
> > discussions of course.

Cheers,
Pete


From renesd at gmail.com  Fri Mar 10 06:01:48 2017
From: renesd at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ren=C3=A9_Dudfield?=)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 12:01:48 +0100
Subject: https://pygame.org/
Message-ID: <CAEiAHj+A=AT0XtfNW=SrOxT-T_fbDT2DERbDbU6aSW5S9_3qiA@mail.gmail.com>

https://pygame.org/


From borysova.mary at gmail.com  Fri Mar 10 09:07:43 2017
From: borysova.mary at gmail.com (borysova.mary at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 06:07:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Acra, new open source database security suite for PostgreSQL
Message-ID: <ec200ce4-3637-446d-8f85-ea52e34591bb@googlegroups.com>

Acra, new database security suite for PostgreSQL: https://github.com/cossacklabs/acra


From jorge.conrado at cptec.inpe.br  Fri Mar 10 11:16:26 2017
From: jorge.conrado at cptec.inpe.br (jorge.conrado at cptec.inpe.br)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 13:16:26 -0300
Subject: Pythos message
Message-ID: <8b29c29a0815c40e401dec8b669e29aa@cptec.inpe.br>

Hi,

I have a test script netcdf_example.py and I run it. I have my figures 
on screen. But I had thse two emssages:

  
/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/setuptools-18.3.1-py2.7.egg/pkg_resources/__init__.py:1256: 
UserWarning: /home/conrado/.python-eggs is writable by group/others and 
vulnerable to attack when used with get_resource_filename. Consider a 
more secure location (set with .set_extraction_path or the 
PYTHON_EGG_CACHE environment variable).


  /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/matplotlib/collections.py:590: 
FutureWarning: elementwise comparison failed; returning scalar instead, 
but in the future will perform elementwise comparison
   if self._edgecolors == str('face'):



   Please, how can I solve this.


   Thanks


   Conrado


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Mar 10 11:46:08 2017
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 09:46:08 -0700
Subject: https://pygame.org/
In-Reply-To: <CAEiAHj+A=AT0XtfNW=SrOxT-T_fbDT2DERbDbU6aSW5S9_3qiA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEiAHj+A=AT0XtfNW=SrOxT-T_fbDT2DERbDbU6aSW5S9_3qiA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=P-0afE2kaRY=dtJzv4a=QziAwQ3d_zEgcc+hOSZp-dA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 4:01 AM, Ren? Dudfield <renesd at gmail.com> wrote:
> https://pygame.org/

Did you have a question, or something that you wish to discuss with
regard to pygame?


From cl at isbd.net  Fri Mar 10 13:51:35 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 18:51:35 +0000
Subject: Where to find python GTK+ 3 reference documentation?
Message-ID: <n69bpd-c4n.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

I'm using the excellent tutorial at https://python-gtk-3-tutorial.readthedocs.io
and occasionally want reference documentation, is there reference
documentation for this on line?

-- 
Chris Green
?


From pavel.aronsky at gmail.com  Fri Mar 10 13:55:06 2017
From: pavel.aronsky at gmail.com (ddbug)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 10:55:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to access installed scripts on Windows?
In-Reply-To: <8ae7e347-68d8-4de8-ba66-1ba140b3e5c1@googlegroups.com>
References: <d0da325d-7e42-44ee-ae16-087462858842@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1au3_+-Kz6oU8fqxe7sEaGR90cVXLni1iQXC8ckxG6j-iQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.2.1487464860.24725.python-list@python.org>
 <9dd2791f-5358-479f-b0e9-9e6c91e2e788@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1asxCSL4cX_F=OpPm97Z6B6RRLnJWqZf6_CTB1x9hn5n_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.162.1488752766.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <8ae7e347-68d8-4de8-ba66-1ba140b3e5c1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0d35ba40-951b-4ba4-b2f8-8c640fe5d861@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 12:29:54 PM UTC+2, Paul  Moore wrote:
> On Sunday, 5 March 2017 22:26:17 UTC, eryk sun  wrote:
> > On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 2:35 AM, ddbug  wrote:
.................

Thank you Paul and Eryk for your replies.

My goal is definitely to expose the Python to my users. I want them to read 
the code and modify as needed - much like people use shell scripts in Linux - but I cannot expect them to install a heavy IDE. This is surprisingly easy in Ubuntu. The 'default' pip installer just does the right thing. The scripts go where the user expects them to be (~/bin or ~/.local/bin) - everything just works. I want to achieve the same on Windows - and hit a small but annoying obstacle: the default install location is not on PATH and not easy discoverable. 

Zipped applications is a good option (provides isolation and easier to grasp than virtualenvs) - but then I can stop using pip as deployment method and tell the users to check out my stuff from our version control system to the location of their choice. If their working copy is not in PATH - no problem.

If/when we start to use 3rd party dependencies, I'll have to add the dependencies to my repository (kind of virtualenv) or ... learn to use the real virtualenv.

I'm now looking at IDLE, trying to understand if it may be helpful for my Windows users for quick start. It is *almost* useful - but small crucial bit is missing again: no Change directory command in the GUI! and no easy way to specify a small 'set-up' code snippet for startup and every reset of the shell. This seems possible via fumbling with command options in shortcuts... but that's really lame. Can I ask somebody familiar with IDLE to look at this? 

Thank you once more.

-- ddbug


From best_lay at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 10 14:26:47 2017
From: best_lay at yahoo.com (Wildman)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 13:26:47 -0600
Subject: Where to find python GTK+ 3 reference documentation?
References: <n69bpd-c4n.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <FLCdnQxWqPNqYF_FnZ2dnUU7-S-dnZ2d@giganews.com>

On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 18:51:35 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

> I'm using the excellent tutorial at https://python-gtk-3-tutorial.readthedocs.io
> and occasionally want reference documentation, is there reference
> documentation for this on line?

https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/

-- 
<Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453
Hey Mr. Ed, why the long face?


From cl at isbd.net  Fri Mar 10 15:26:54 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 20:26:54 +0000
Subject: Where to find python GTK+ 3 reference documentation?
References: <n69bpd-c4n.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <FLCdnQxWqPNqYF_FnZ2dnUU7-S-dnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <epebpd-m1p.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

Wildman <best_lay at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 18:51:35 +0000, Chris Green wrote:
> 
> > I'm using the excellent tutorial at https://python-gtk-3-tutorial.readthedocs.io
> > and occasionally want reference documentation, is there reference
> > documentation for this on line?
> 
> https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/
> 
Thanks, that's the C/C++ documentation which will probably tell me
what I want.  Isn't there proper Python documemtation for it?

-- 
Chris Green
?


From digitalfantasy.it86559 at digitalfantasy.it  Fri Mar 10 15:32:29 2017
From: digitalfantasy.it86559 at digitalfantasy.it (Liste guru)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 21:32:29 +0100
Subject: Where to find python GTK+ 3 reference documentation?
In-Reply-To: <FLCdnQxWqPNqYF_FnZ2dnUU7-S-dnZ2d@giganews.com>
References: <n69bpd-c4n.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <FLCdnQxWqPNqYF_FnZ2dnUU7-S-dnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <7d06ec73-914c-fe2e-d2df-16011850926b@digitalfantasy.it>

Il 10/03/2017 20:26, Wildman via Python-list ha scritto:
> On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 18:51:35 +0000, Chris Green wrote:
>
>> I'm using the excellent tutorial at https://python-gtk-3-tutorial.readthedocs.io
>> and occasionally want reference documentation, is there reference
>> documentation for this on line?
> https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/
>
If you get the pygobject package from sourceforge, in the various 
packages there is devhelp with the documentation of all the libs (and 
many more, if I'm not wrong there is also the python doc installed), 
with particular section about python.

As a reference I found it very useful.

     Daniele Forghieri




From torriem at gmail.com  Fri Mar 10 15:57:20 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 13:57:20 -0700
Subject: Where to find python GTK+ 3 reference documentation?
In-Reply-To: <epebpd-m1p.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
References: <n69bpd-c4n.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <FLCdnQxWqPNqYF_FnZ2dnUU7-S-dnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <epebpd-m1p.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <451c9a83-8624-4db6-4e92-d5286e6fdfd0@gmail.com>

On 03/10/2017 01:26 PM, Chris Green wrote:
> Wildman <best_lay at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 18:51:35 +0000, Chris Green wrote:
>>
>>> I'm using the excellent tutorial at https://python-gtk-3-tutorial.readthedocs.io
>>> and occasionally want reference documentation, is there reference
>>> documentation for this on line?
>>
>> https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/
>>
> Thanks, that's the C/C++ documentation which will probably tell me
> what I want.  Isn't there proper Python documemtation for it?

There used to be, for GTK2, at http://pygtk.org.  But with the GTK3
bindings, they are now dynamic bindings using PyGObject, which itself is
documented here:  https://wiki.gnome.org/action/show/Projects/PyGObject.
 The resulting bound API closely resembles the GTK C API typically,
which is convenient, but not as Pythonic as the PyGTK2 bindings were.  I
assume there must be a tool out there that can autogenerate API docs (in
Python) for GTK3.

According to
https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/PyGObject/IntrospectionPorting, there's
a module called pygtkcompat that provides a very PyGTK-compatible API
that you can use while making the transition from PyGTK-style code.



From maria.katic at gmail.com  Fri Mar 10 16:17:11 2017
From: maria.katic at gmail.com (maria.katic at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 13:17:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Invitation to support our research (by responding to the
 questionnaire) on analogy based code reuse
Message-ID: <4574fe54-2716-48e9-8ac9-a3784247b363@googlegroups.com>

At Birkbeck, University of London in collaboration with the Faculty of Electrical Engineering and Computing, University of Zagreb, we are doing research on reusing source code based on analogical reasoning.
 
We appreciate the importance of your time and we hope you will be able to invest approximately 15 minutes of your time and fill in our questionnaire. The questionnaire will be available in the next few weeks.
 
We did our best to reduce the amount of questions to the most important ones of our interest. Please note that your feedback is critical to the success of this research. Your answers are completely anonymous.
 
Please follow this link to fill in the questionnaire:
   
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc0A_z8Z2zOeElqA_dWBijc04Fh5qARy9PdV63D7QzpFq3rbA/viewform?usp=send_form
 
Thank you very much in advance for your time and for supporting our research.

Kind regards,
Marija, Martin and Mario


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Fri Mar 10 16:31:41 2017
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 13:31:41 -0800
Subject: keyrings.cryptfile released on github
References: <2356566.kSNyJECJKv@xrated>
 <20170309230909.hl3zg2llxazwiypu@abyayala> <4839007.k4Tbcrq13J@xrated>
 <mailman.232.1489143288.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87tw70rf7m.fsf@nightsong.com>

Hans-Peter Jansen <hpj at urpla.net> writes:
> [1] http://web.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/ocb/license.htm

Oh that's interesting, he's expanded the free licenses.  Still though,
while OCB is very clever and it was important as the first satisfactory
AEAD mode, I don't think it's that important these days.  GCM is
standardized, does similar things, and while it's potentially slower,
some CPUs even have hardware support for it now.  If you library doesn't
support GCM (I haven't checked yet) then it probably should.



From cl at isbd.net  Fri Mar 10 16:47:05 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 21:47:05 +0000
Subject: Where to find python GTK+ 3 reference documentation?
References: <n69bpd-c4n.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <FLCdnQxWqPNqYF_FnZ2dnUU7-S-dnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <epebpd-m1p.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <451c9a83-8624-4db6-4e92-d5286e6fdfd0@gmail.com>
 <mailman.238.1489179452.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pfjbpd-agq.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 03/10/2017 01:26 PM, Chris Green wrote:
> > Wildman <best_lay at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 18:51:35 +0000, Chris Green wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'm using the excellent tutorial at https://python-gtk-3-tutorial.readthedocs.io
> >>> and occasionally want reference documentation, is there reference
> >>> documentation for this on line?
> >>
> >> https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/
> >>
> > Thanks, that's the C/C++ documentation which will probably tell me
> > what I want.  Isn't there proper Python documemtation for it?
> 
> There used to be, for GTK2, at http://pygtk.org.  But with the GTK3
> bindings, they are now dynamic bindings using PyGObject, which itself is
> documented here:  https://wiki.gnome.org/action/show/Projects/PyGObject.
>  The resulting bound API closely resembles the GTK C API typically,
> which is convenient, but not as Pythonic as the PyGTK2 bindings were.  I
> assume there must be a tool out there that can autogenerate API docs (in
> Python) for GTK3.
> 
> According to
> https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/PyGObject/IntrospectionPorting, there's
> a module called pygtkcompat that provides a very PyGTK-compatible API
> that you can use while making the transition from PyGTK-style code.
> 
Thank you for the comprehensive explanation.  :-)

-- 
Chris Green
?


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Fri Mar 10 18:06:19 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2017 10:06:19 +1100
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <8f090d66-b3d2-00ac-ca5b-5745d96a11b7@gmail.com>
 <mailman.205.1489033871.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <up08pd-mk4.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <4c80c74c-16f3-26d5-0a31-2cdeef0216fa@lucidity.plus.com>
 <mailman.218.1489098617.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <ti5apd-tas.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu> <58C2778A.60400@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.229.1489139582.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58c3316d$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 08:53 pm, Ethan Furman wrote:

> On 03/10/2017 12:43 AM, Chris Green wrote:
>> Erik <python at lucidity.plus.com> wrote:
>>> On 09/03/17 13:09, Chris Green wrote:
>>>> Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 03/08/2017 12:27 PM, Chris Green wrote:
>>>>>> I have a fairly simple application that populates a GUI window with
>>>>>> fields from a database table.  The fields are defined/configured by a
>>>>>> dictionary as follows:-
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead of ordering the data in Python, why not rely on the GUI to do
>>>>> the sort?  Most GUI's even have table widgets that let you click on
>>>>> the headings to sort arbitrarily.
>>>>>
>>>> How would it sort it?  The order I want is arbitrary, or at least not
>>>> alphabetical or anything, I just want the order to be the way I
>>>> listed it.
>>>
>>> To be fair to Michael, you did not state your required order in the
>>> message that he replied to. You just kept saying "the order I want".
>>>
>>> If you're going to make people guess, don't chastise them for guessing
>>> wrong :D
>>>
>> OK.  :-)
>>
>> However how else can one describe an order which isn't 'sorted'? ...
>> other than as the order one wants?
> 
> I want the order to be the same as the order I enter them in.  ;)


That's not the same thing at all.

I added Fred to the address book in January. I added Sue to the address book
in February. I added George to the address book in March. But I want them
to show up in the order Sue, George, Fred.


As far as I can see, the only way to display the contents of a dict in some
arbitrary order is to keep an auxilary list of the keys in the order you
want it.



-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Mar 10 18:18:31 2017
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 15:18:31 -0800
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
In-Reply-To: <58c3316d$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <8f090d66-b3d2-00ac-ca5b-5745d96a11b7@gmail.com>
 <mailman.205.1489033871.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <up08pd-mk4.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <4c80c74c-16f3-26d5-0a31-2cdeef0216fa@lucidity.plus.com>
 <mailman.218.1489098617.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <ti5apd-tas.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu> <58C2778A.60400@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.229.1489139582.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <58c3316d$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <58C33447.5000301@stoneleaf.us>

On 03/10/2017 03:06 PM, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 08:53 pm, Ethan Furman wrote:
>> On 03/10/2017 12:43 AM, Chris Green wrote:

>>> However how else can one describe an order which isn't 'sorted'? ...
>>> other than as the order one wants?
>>
>> I want the order to be the same as the order I enter them in.  ;)
>
>
> That's not the same thing at all.
>
> I added Fred to the address book in January. I added Sue to the address book
> in February. I added George to the address book in March. But I want them
> to show up in the order Sue, George, Fred.

The OP was talking about the field names, not the entire record.

--
~Ethan~



From dieter at handshake.de  Sat Mar 11 02:53:13 2017
From: dieter at handshake.de (dieter)
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2017 08:53:13 +0100
Subject: Pythos message
References: <8b29c29a0815c40e401dec8b669e29aa@cptec.inpe.br>
Message-ID: <87efy4dzbq.fsf@handshake.de>

jorge.conrado at cptec.inpe.br writes:

> I have a test script netcdf_example.py and I run it. I have my figures
> on screen. But I had thse two emssages:
>
>  /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/setuptools-18.3.1-py2.7.egg/pkg_resources/__init__.py:1256:
> UserWarning: /home/conrado/.python-eggs is writable by group/others
> and vulnerable to attack when used with
> get_resource_filename. Consider a more secure location (set with
> .set_extraction_path or the PYTHON_EGG_CACHE environment variable).

This warns you that part of your Python infrastructure
(the content of "/home/conrado/.python-eggs") could be changed
by other people (than you).

You might not be concerned at all (if you act in a safe, trustfull
environment). Otherwise, you have essentially two options:

 *  prevent write access for others than you to "/home/conrado/.python-eggs"
    (--> "chmod" command)

 *  move the part of your Python infrastructure to another
    location not writable by "other" and "group" -
    and tell your Python system where to find is (via
    "set_extraction_path" or envvar "PYTHON_EGG_CACHE").


>  /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/matplotlib/collections.py:590:
> FutureWarning: elementwise comparison failed; returning scalar
> instead, but in the future will perform elementwise comparison
>   if self._edgecolors == str('face'):

A "FutureWarning" warns about something that may give an error
in the future.

>From this specific message, I guess (!), that "_edgecolors"
consists in fact not of a single but of multiple components -
but is compared here to a single value. The warning means, that
the current behaviour (returning a scalar value) is likely to change
in the future (returning a composite value for the elementwise
comparison). Should this happen, the code will likely fail.

This warning comes from "matplotlib" - i.e. it is outside of
your immediate control. You can hope that a future version
of "matplotlib" will correctly handle the changed behaviour in the future --
and ignore the problem until then.



From cl at isbd.net  Sat Mar 11 05:07:32 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2017 10:07:32 +0000
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <8f090d66-b3d2-00ac-ca5b-5745d96a11b7@gmail.com>
 <mailman.205.1489033871.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <up08pd-mk4.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <4c80c74c-16f3-26d5-0a31-2cdeef0216fa@lucidity.plus.com>
 <mailman.218.1489098617.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <ti5apd-tas.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu> <58C2778A.60400@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.229.1489139582.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <58c3316d$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4sucpd-g59.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> > I want the order to be the same as the order I enter them in.  ;)
> 
> 
> That's not the same thing at all.
> 
> I added Fred to the address book in January. I added Sue to the address book
> in February. I added George to the address book in March. But I want them
> to show up in the order Sue, George, Fred.
> 
The order I was asking about was the order of the *fields* of the
heading (i.e. the column names) *not* the data.  It won't get updated
when new data is added.  What I was after (and got) was a way that
would allow me to extract the data for one entry in my address book in
a particular order.

-- 
Chris Green
?


From torriem at gmail.com  Sat Mar 11 09:21:28 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2017 07:21:28 -0700
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
In-Reply-To: <4sucpd-g59.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <8f090d66-b3d2-00ac-ca5b-5745d96a11b7@gmail.com>
 <mailman.205.1489033871.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <up08pd-mk4.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <4c80c74c-16f3-26d5-0a31-2cdeef0216fa@lucidity.plus.com>
 <mailman.218.1489098617.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <ti5apd-tas.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu> <58C2778A.60400@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.229.1489139582.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <58c3316d$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <4sucpd-g59.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <f0ba2296-0963-de2e-3a3b-e69ff939ff31@gmail.com>

On 03/11/2017 03:07 AM, Chris Green wrote:
> The order I was asking about was the order of the *fields* of the
> heading (i.e. the column names) *not* the data.  It won't get updated
> when new data is added.  What I was after (and got) was a way that
> would allow me to extract the data for one entry in my address book in
> a particular order.

Ahh. Now that's something I did not get out of the original message.
Apparently others did, though, since they talked about ordered dicts.

The order of the displayed fields is usually something set by the GUI
API when you create the table widget. At least in most toolkits I'm
familiar with.  As well, when you add the row to the widget, you
normally specify the fields (the data) individually, so I would think
the order of the dict's fields does not matter since you'd manually
specify each field's data.




From phd at phdru.name  Sat Mar 11 11:14:48 2017
From: phd at phdru.name (Oleg Broytman)
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2017 17:14:48 +0100
Subject: SQLObject 3.2.0
Message-ID: <20170311161448.GB19036@phdru.name>

Hello!

I'm pleased to announce version 3.2.0, the first stable release of branch
3.2 of SQLObject.


What's new in SQLObject
=======================

Contributor for this release is Neil Muller.

Minor features
--------------

* Drop table name from ``VACUUM`` command in SQLiteConnection: SQLite
  doesn't vacuum a single table and SQLite 3.15 uses the supplied name as
  the name of the attached database to vacuum.

* Remove ``driver`` keyword from RdbhostConnection as it allows one driver
  ``rdbhdb``.

* Add ``driver`` keyword for FirebirdConnection. Allowed values are 'fdb',
  'kinterbasdb' and 'pyfirebirdsql'. Default is to test 'fdb' and
  'kinterbasdb' in that order. pyfirebirdsql is supported but has problems.

* Add ``driver`` keyword for MySQLConnection. Allowed values are 'mysqldb',
  'connector', 'oursql' and 'pymysql'. Default is to test for mysqldb only.

* Add support for `MySQL Connector
  <https://pypi.python.org/pypi/mysql-connector>`_ (pure python; `binary
  packages <https://dev.mysql.com/doc/connector-python/en/>`_ are not at
  PyPI and hence are hard to install and test).

* Add support for `oursql <https://github.com/python-oursql/oursql>`_ MySQL
  driver (only Python 2.6 and 2.7 until oursql author fixes Python 3
  compatibility).

* Add support for `PyMySQL <https://github.com/PyMySQL/PyMySQL/>`_ - pure
  python mysql interface).

* Add parameter ``timeout`` for MSSQLConnection (usable only with pymssql
  driver); timeouts are in seconds.

* Remove deprecated ez_setup.py.

Drivers (work in progress)
--------------------------

* Extend support for PyGreSQL driver. There are still some problems.

* Add support for `py-postgresql
  <https://pypi.python.org/pypi/py-postgresql>`_ PostgreSQL driver. There
  are still problems with the driver.

* Add support for `pyfirebirdsql
  <https://pypi.python.org/pypi/firebirdsql>`_.There are still problems with
  the driver.

Bug fixes
---------

* Fix MSSQLConnection.columnsFromSchema: remove `(` and `)` from default
  value.

* Fix MSSQLConnection and SybaseConnection: insert default values into a table
  with just one IDENTITY column.

* Remove excessive NULLs from ``CREATE TABLE`` for MSSQL/Sybase.

* Fix concatenation operator for MSSQL/Sybase (it's ``+``, not ``||``).

* Fix MSSQLConnection.server_version() under Py3 (decode version to str).

Documentation
-------------

* The docs are now generated with Sphinx.

* Move ``docs/LICENSE`` to the top-level directory so that Github
  recognizes it.

Tests
-----

* Rename ``py.test`` -> ``pytest`` in tests and docs.

* Great Renaming: fix ``pytest`` warnings by renaming ``TestXXX`` classes
  to ``SOTestXXX`` to prevent ``pytest`` to recognize them as test classes.

* Fix ``pytest`` warnings by converting yield tests to plain calls: yield
  tests were deprecated in ``pytest``.

* Tests are now run at CIs with Python 3.5.

* Drop ``Circle CI``.

* Run at Travis CI tests with Firebird backend (server version 2.5;
  drivers fdb and firebirdsql). There are problems with tests.

* Run tests at AppVeyor for windows testing. Run tests with MS SQL,
  MySQL, Postgres and SQLite backends; use Python 2.7, 3.4 and 3.5,
  x86 and x64. There are problems with MS SQL and MySQL.

For a more complete list, please see the news:
http://sqlobject.org/News.html


What is SQLObject
=================

SQLObject is an object-relational mapper.  Your database tables are described
as classes, and rows are instances of those classes.  SQLObject is meant to be
easy to use and quick to get started with.

SQLObject supports a number of backends: MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQLite,
Firebird, Sybase, MSSQL and MaxDB (also known as SAPDB).

Python 2.6, 2.7 or 3.4+ is required.


Where is SQLObject
==================

Site:
http://sqlobject.org

Development:
http://sqlobject.org/devel/

Mailing list:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/sqlobject-discuss

Archives:
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.sqlobject

Download:
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/SQLObject/3.2.0

News and changes:
http://sqlobject.org/News.html

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytman            http://phdru.name/            phd at phdru.name
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.


From p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt  Sat Mar 11 17:01:02 2017
From: p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2017 22:01:02 +0000
Subject: Precision reading and writing data frames to csv
Message-ID: <oa1s2k$5kk$1@gioia.aioe.org>

Hi!

I have a dir with lots of csv files. These files are updated +- once a
day. I could see that some values are converted, during output, to very
close values but with lots of digits. I understand that is caused by the
internal bits' representation of the float/double values.

Now my question is: Is it possible the occurrence of successive
cumulative errors? I mean reading a file, adding lines or change few
ones but keeping the most of the other lines untouched and, even so,
existent untouched lines keep always changing?

Thanks


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Mar 11 18:06:28 2017
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2017 23:06:28 +0000
Subject: Precision reading and writing data frames to csv
In-Reply-To: <oa1s2k$5kk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <oa1s2k$5kk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <d6762fb2-5dcd-ebc4-e95c-7113638022ea@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2017-03-11 22:01, Paulo da Silva wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I have a dir with lots of csv files. These files are updated +- once a
> day. I could see that some values are converted, during output, to very
> close values but with lots of digits. I understand that is caused by the
> internal bits' representation of the float/double values.
>
> Now my question is: Is it possible the occurrence of successive
> cumulative errors? I mean reading a file, adding lines or change few
> ones but keeping the most of the other lines untouched and, even so,
> existent untouched lines keep always changing?
>
If it's writing out _exactly_ what it's reading in, how can it be changing?



From python at lucidity.plus.com  Sat Mar 11 18:29:35 2017
From: python at lucidity.plus.com (Erik)
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2017 23:29:35 +0000
Subject: Precision reading and writing data frames to csv
In-Reply-To: <oa1s2k$5kk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <oa1s2k$5kk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <446bb297-2940-975a-70bb-8c7b190e6138@lucidity.plus.com>

Hi Paulo,

On 11/03/17 22:01, Paulo da Silva wrote:
> I have a dir with lots of csv files. These files are updated +- once a
> day. I could see that some values are converted, during output, to very
> close values but with lots of digits. I understand that is caused by the
> internal bits' representation of the float/double values.
>
> Now my question is: Is it possible the occurrence of successive
> cumulative errors? I mean reading a file, adding lines or change few
> ones but keeping the most of the other lines untouched and, even so,
> existent untouched lines keep always changing?

Firstly, if the values are changing then they are being first written by 
a process that has a very strict decimal representation and then read in 
and re-written by something that has a less-strict representation (I'm 
guessing that by "float/double values", you mean IEEE 754).

Because IEEE 754 can't represent all values *exactly*, some input values 
will change to something close as you have seen.

However, if the input value matches something that IEEE 754 *can* 
represent exactly then it will not change.

Whether you will see _cumulative_ errors depends on whether the output 
stage of the first pass truncates the output with a field width 
specifier or similar. If not, then you should see the initial change 
you've noticed and then nothing more after that for that particular datum.


Having said all that, if you use Python's decimal.Decimal type instead 
of float/double for processing your files, then you are better off if 
absolute precision is what you need.

E.


From p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt  Sat Mar 11 21:26:28 2017
From: p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 02:26:28 +0000
Subject: Precision reading and writing data frames to csv
References: <oa1s2k$5kk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <446bb297-2940-975a-70bb-8c7b190e6138@lucidity.plus.com>
 <mailman.246.1489274983.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oa2bk8$s65$1@gioia.aioe.org>

?s 23:29 de 11-03-2017, Erik escreveu:
> Hi Paulo,
> 
> On 11/03/17 22:01, Paulo da Silva wrote:
...

>> Now my question is: Is it possible the occurrence of successive
>> cumulative errors? I mean reading a file, adding lines or change few
>> ones but keeping the most of the other lines untouched and, even so,
>> existent untouched lines keep always changing?
> 
> Firstly, if the values are changing then they are being first written by
> a process that has a very strict decimal representation and then read in
> and re-written by something that has a less-strict representation (I'm
> guessing that by "float/double values", you mean IEEE 754).
I don't know. I can tell you that I'm using pandas data frame read_csv
and to_csv to read and write.

> 
> Because IEEE 754 can't represent all values *exactly*, some input values
> will change to something close as you have seen.

> However, if the input value matches something that IEEE 754 *can*
> represent exactly then it will not change.
> 
> Whether you will see _cumulative_ errors depends on whether the output
> stage of the first pass truncates the output with a field width
> specifier or similar. If not, then you should see the initial change
> you've noticed and then nothing more after that for that particular datum.
Ok, I like that.

> 
> 
> Having said all that, if you use Python's decimal.Decimal type instead
> of float/double for processing your files, then you are better off if
> absolute precision is what you need.
No, I don't think it is needed. It will unnecessarily complicate my
scripts. They have lots of calculations (matrix like operations). I
don't care about fine precision. Only cumulative changes. I was in doubt
if the data was going to change over time.

Thank you very much.



From cl at isbd.net  Sun Mar 12 08:14:32 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 12:14:32 +0000
Subject: Does one create an event to notify parent window/GUI of something?
Message-ID: <8mqfpd-4d7.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

This is a rather a beginner question.  I'm heavily modifying some code
that was an LDAP address book to be a sqlite3 based address book.  I
have the basic GUI working and I'm now getting the database
connections to work.

This question relates to how one communicates between windows/GUIs.

When the program starts theres a main GUI, class name abookgui.  If
you want to add new entries or modify existing entries an edit GUI is
started in a separate window, class abookeditgui.

I need the abookeditgui window to be able to tell the parent abookgui
window that it has completed whatever it was doing.  It has two basic
possibilities 'Cancel', i.e. nothing was changed or 'Save' meaning
there's a new/changed item in the database.  The parent abookgui needs
to know when one of these has happened.

What's the 'right' way to do this?  I can see several non-event driven
ways of doing it badly but I'm not sure of the proper event driven
way.   The parent abookgui only has the name of the abookeditgui
object, it can of course access the abookeditgui instance variables so
it can hook (for example) a window exit event (I think!).

There are (of course) event handlers for the 'Save' and 'Cancel'
button click events in abookeditgui, what I need is hooks from these
to run some code in abookgui after the abookeditgui has completed. How
should one do this, is there a way for a class to call code in the
class 'above' which instantiated it?

-- 
Chris Green
?


From cl at isbd.net  Sun Mar 12 11:05:20 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 15:05:20 +0000
Subject: Does one create an event to notify parent window/GUI of something?
References: <8mqfpd-4d7.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <hslacctvrqhc00b7co62ibj58q5jt5uvab@4ax.com>
 <mailman.0.1489329665.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gm4gpd-5ma.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 12:14:32 +0000, Chris Green <cl at isbd.net> declaimed the
> following:
> 
> >This is a rather a beginner question.  I'm heavily modifying some code
> >that was an LDAP address book to be a sqlite3 based address book.  I
> >have the basic GUI working and I'm now getting the database
> >connections to work.
> >
>         <snip>
> 
> >
> >There are (of course) event handlers for the 'Save' and 'Cancel'
> >button click events in abookeditgui, what I need is hooks from these
> >to run some code in abookgui after the abookeditgui has completed. How
> >should one do this, is there a way for a class to call code in the
> >class 'above' which instantiated it?
> >
> 
>         1)      You fail to mention just which toolkit you are using -- things may
> differ between wx, Tk, or any of the other toolkits (or meta-toolkits --
> Dabo is built on top of one of the other basic toolkits). (And, knowing my
> luck, my decade old WxPython book is out-of-date as Wx updates are a new
> architecture)
> 
I'm using Python GTK, sorry I should have included this information.


>         2)      It sounds a bit like your edit window needs to be a modal window,
> blocking the main window from responding to anything until the edit window
> completes. In my Wx book, dialogs can be displayed using .showModal() --
> which blocks the parent window at that point. When the dialog goes away,
> the return code (OK/Cancel) is provided as the result of the .showModal()
> call, and the main code can now act upon it.

That might well be one way of doing it, thanks.

However I find modal windows *very* annoying at times so I'd prefer
not to do it this way.  The annoyance here would be (for example)
needing to look up something elsewhere in the address book to fill in
something on the new address, a modal edit box would prevent this.

The logic of what you suggest is perfect, I want something to happen
in the main code when the edit GUI window exits.

-- 
Chris Green
?


From rahulrasal at gmail.com  Sun Mar 12 12:22:52 2017
From: rahulrasal at gmail.com (rahulrasal at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 09:22:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Regular expression query
Message-ID: <b51fd856-0adb-4bee-b547-5916dea139e3@googlegroups.com>

Hi All,

I have a string which looks like

aaaaa,bbbbb,ccccc "4873898374", ddddd, eeeeee "3343,23,23,5,,5,45", fffff "5546,3434,345,34,34,5,34,543,7"

It is comma saperated string, but some of the fields have a double quoted string as part of it (and that double quoted string can have commas).
Above string have only 6 fields. First is aaaaa, second is bbbbb and last is fffff "5546,3434,345,34,34,5,34,543,7".
How can I split this string in its fields using regular expression ? or even if there is any other way to do this, please speak out.

Thanks in advance


From larry.martell at gmail.com  Sun Mar 12 12:28:41 2017
From: larry.martell at gmail.com (Larry Martell)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 12:28:41 -0400
Subject: Regular expression query
In-Reply-To: <b51fd856-0adb-4bee-b547-5916dea139e3@googlegroups.com>
References: <b51fd856-0adb-4bee-b547-5916dea139e3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CACwCsY75s96iGNT31eu+VCEVDmQ2b2E_4afjNJ9Zu9BSfLfwoQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 12, 2017 at 12:22 PM,  <rahulrasal at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I have a string which looks like
>
> aaaaa,bbbbb,ccccc "4873898374", ddddd, eeeeee "3343,23,23,5,,5,45", fffff "5546,3434,345,34,34,5,34,543,7"
>
> It is comma saperated string, but some of the fields have a double quoted string as part of it (and that double quoted string can have commas).
> Above string have only 6 fields. First is aaaaa, second is bbbbb and last is fffff "5546,3434,345,34,34,5,34,543,7".
> How can I split this string in its fields using regular expression ? or even if there is any other way to do this, please speak out.

Use the csv module:

https://docs.python.org/2.7/library/csv.html


From eric.frederich at gmail.com  Sun Mar 12 13:02:31 2017
From: eric.frederich at gmail.com (Eric Frederich)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 13:02:31 -0400
Subject: Compiling new Pythons on old Windows compilers
Message-ID: <CAAoZyYNVMFYD0argk5sES7SKyGs8pn6-WBXumeDVSJ5AMaZVCQ@mail.gmail.com>

There is a commercial application which allows customizations through a C
API.
There are 3 different releases of this application each compiled with
different versions of Visual Studio, 2008, 2010, and 2012.

I'd like to release a customization which embeds a Python interpreter, but
I'd like to use the same Python release across all 3 application versions.
There may be versions of Python like 2.7 or something which compile on all
3 of those Visual Studio releases, but I'd really prefer to use Python 3.

Any idea why compatibility was dropped recently?  There used to be a PC
directory with different VS directories in the source tree, now it isn't
there any more.

Thanks,
~Eric


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Sun Mar 12 13:24:56 2017
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:24:56 +0200
Subject: Regular expression query
References: <b51fd856-0adb-4bee-b547-5916dea139e3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <lf5d1dm2ys7.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

rahulrasal at gmail.com writes:

> Hi All,
>
> I have a string which looks like
>
> aaaaa,bbbbb,ccccc "4873898374", ddddd, eeeeee "3343,23,23,5,,5,45", fffff "5546,3434,345,34,34,5,34,543,7"
>
> It is comma saperated string, but some of the fields have a double
> quoted string as part of it (and that double quoted string can have
> commas).  Above string have only 6 fields. First is aaaaa, second is
> bbbbb and last is fffff "5546,3434,345,34,34,5,34,543,7".  How can I
> split this string in its fields using regular expression ? or even if
> there is any other way to do this, please speak out.

If you have any control over the source of this data, try to change the
source so that it writes proper CSV. Then you can use the csv module to
parse the data.

As it is, csv.reader failed me. Perhaps someone else knows how it should
be parameterized to deal with this?

len(next(csv.reader(io.StringIO(s)))) == 20
len(next(csv.reader(io.StringIO(s), doublequote = False))) == 20

Here's a regex solution that assumes that there is something in a field
before the doublequoted part, then at most one doublequoted part and
nothing after the doublequoted part.

len(re.findall(r'([^",]+(?:"[^"]*")?)', s)) == 6

re.findall(r'([^",]+(?:"[^"]*")?)', s)
['aaaaa',
'bbbbb',
'ccccc "4873898374"',
' ddddd',
' eeeeee "3343,23,23,5,,5,45"',
' fffff "5546,3434,345,34,34,5,34,543,7"']

The outermost parentheses in the pattern make the whole pattern a
capturing group. They are redundant above (with re.findall) but
important in the following alternative (with re.split).

re.split(r'([^",]+(?:"[^"]*")?)', s)
['', 'aaaaa',
',', 'bbbbb',
',', 'ccccc "4873898374"',
',', ' ddddd',
',', ' eeeeee "3343,23,23,5,,5,45"',
',', ' fffff "5546,3434,345,34,34,5,34,543,7"',
'']

This splits the string with the pattern that matches the actual data.
With the capturing group it also returns the actual data. One could then
check that the assumptions hold and every other value is just a comma.

I would make that check and throw an exception on failure.


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Sun Mar 12 13:48:58 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 04:48:58 +1100
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
Message-ID: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Linux, if I call os.remove on a file which I own but don't have write
permission on, the file is still deleted:


py> f = open('/tmp/no-write', 'w')
py> os.path.exists('/tmp/no-write')
True
py> os.chmod('/tmp/no-write', 0)  # Forbid ALL access.
py> os.remove('/tmp/no-write')
py> os.path.exists('/tmp/no-write')
False


It seems that os.remove on Linux will force the delete even if the file is
read-only or unreadable, provided you own the file.

Does os.remove work like this under Windows too?

Under what circumstances will os.remove fail to remove a file?

If you don't own the file and have no write permission, if it is on
read-only media, anything else?


Thanks,



-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From lele at metapensiero.it  Sun Mar 12 14:00:58 2017
From: lele at metapensiero.it (Lele Gaifax)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:00:58 +0100
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <8760jee5np.fsf@metapensiero.it>

Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info> writes:

> Under what circumstances will os.remove fail to remove a file?
>
> If you don't own the file and have no write permission, if it is on
> read-only media, anything else?

I would say that what matter is the permission on the directory containing the
file, not on the file itself.

ciao, lele.
-- 
nickname: Lele Gaifax | Quando vivr? di quello che ho pensato ieri
real: Emanuele Gaifas | comincer? ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
lele at metapensiero.it  |                 -- Fortunato Depero, 1929.



From larry.martell at gmail.com  Sun Mar 12 14:04:09 2017
From: larry.martell at gmail.com (Larry Martell)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 14:04:09 -0400
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
In-Reply-To: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CACwCsY7K=RU2KE0afHQYBBPUiGLH-C_Qk=cYvLXEsNiFiuwvGg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 12, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Steve D'Aprano
<steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Linux, if I call os.remove on a file which I own but don't have write
> permission on, the file is still deleted:
>
>
> py> f = open('/tmp/no-write', 'w')
> py> os.path.exists('/tmp/no-write')
> True
> py> os.chmod('/tmp/no-write', 0)  # Forbid ALL access.
> py> os.remove('/tmp/no-write')
> py> os.path.exists('/tmp/no-write')
> False
>
>
> It seems that os.remove on Linux will force the delete even if the file is
> read-only or unreadable, provided you own the file.

In Linux, I believe you need write permission on the dir to delete a
file - the perms on the file do not matter.


From alain at universite-de-strasbourg.fr.invalid  Sun Mar 12 14:45:54 2017
From: alain at universite-de-strasbourg.fr.invalid (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:45:54 +0100
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87inne1ggt.fsf@universite-de-strasbourg.fr.invalid>

Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info> writes:

> On Linux, if I call os.remove on a file which I own but don't have write
> permission on, the file is still deleted:
>
>
> py> f = open('/tmp/no-write', 'w')
> py> os.path.exists('/tmp/no-write')
> True
> py> os.chmod('/tmp/no-write', 0)  # Forbid ALL access.
> py> os.remove('/tmp/no-write')
> py> os.path.exists('/tmp/no-write')
> False
>
>
> It seems that os.remove on Linux will force the delete even if the file is
> read-only or unreadable, provided you own the file.

Your permissions on the file do not really matters. It's all about your
permissions on the parent directory (removing a file is really modifying
the parent dir). Actually, it is even slightly more complicated. Here is
an excerpt of the unlink(2) call (which does the job) listing common
error cases:

| EACCES Write access to the directory containing pathname is not allowed
|        for  the  process's  effective UID, or one of the directories in
|        pathname did not allow search permission.  (See also  path_reso?
|        lution(7).)
|
| ELOOP  Too  many  symbolic  links were encountered in translating path?
|        name.
|
| EPERM (Linux only)
|        The filesystem does not allow unlinking of files.
|
| EPERM or EACCES
|        The  directory  containing pathname has the sticky bit (S_ISVTX)
|        set and the process's effective UID is neither the  UID  of  the
|        file  to be deleted nor that of the directory containing it, and
|        the  process  is  not  privileged  (Linux:  does  not  have  the
|        CAP_FOWNER capability).
|
| EROFS  pathname refers to a file on a read-only filesystem.


> Does os.remove work like this under Windows too?

No, Windows has its own set of rules:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb727008.aspx

> Under what circumstances will os.remove fail to remove a file?
>
> If you don't own the file and have no write permission, if it is on
> read-only media, anything else?

I'm not sure which system you are asking about, here. See above.

-- Alain.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Mar 12 14:51:46 2017
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 13:51:46 -0500
Subject: Regular expression query
In-Reply-To: <b51fd856-0adb-4bee-b547-5916dea139e3@googlegroups.com>
References: <b51fd856-0adb-4bee-b547-5916dea139e3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20170312135146.172545da@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2017-03-12 09:22, rahulrasal at gmail.com wrote:
> aaaaa,bbbbb,ccccc "4873898374", ddddd, eeeeee "3343,23,23,5,,5,45",
> fffff "5546,3434,345,34,34,5,34,543,7"
> 
> It is comma saperated string, but some of the fields have a double
> quoted string as part of it (and that double quoted string can have
> commas). Above string have only 6 fields. First is aaaaa, second is
> bbbbb and last is fffff "5546,3434,345,34,34,5,34,543,7". How can I
> split this string in its fields using regular expression ? or even
> if there is any other way to do this, please speak out.

Your desired output seems to silently ignore the spaces after the
commas (e.g. why is it "ddddd" instead of " ddddd"?).  You also don't
mention what should happen in the event there's an empty field:

   aaa,,ccc,ddd "ee",ff

For a close approximation, you might try

import re
instr = 'aaaaa,bbbbb,ccccc "4873898374", ddddd, eeeeee "3343,23,23,5,,5,45", fffff "5546,3434,345,34,34,5,34,543,7"'

desired = [
    "aaaaa",
    "bbbbb",
    'ccccc "4873898374"',
    "ddddd",
    'eeeeee "3343,23,23,5,,5,45"',
    'fffff "5546,3434,345,34,34,5,34,543,7"',
    ]

r = re.compile(r'(?!,|$)(?:"[^"]*"|[^,])*')
# result = r.findall(instr)
# strip them because of the aforementioned leading-space issue
result = [s.strip() for s in r.findall(instr)]
assert len(result) == len(desired), str(result)
assert result == desired, str(result)



It doesn't address the empty field issue, but it's at least a start.

-tkc






From eryksun at gmail.com  Sun Mar 12 16:45:34 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 20:45:34 +0000
Subject: Compiling new Pythons on old Windows compilers
In-Reply-To: <CAAoZyYNVMFYD0argk5sES7SKyGs8pn6-WBXumeDVSJ5AMaZVCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAoZyYNVMFYD0argk5sES7SKyGs8pn6-WBXumeDVSJ5AMaZVCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1as_7GLqL79mrByx_RwjC19fif2MKzfdes2V+UDzZXBotA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 12, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Eric Frederich
<eric.frederich at gmail.com> wrote:
> Any idea why compatibility was dropped recently?  There used to be a PC
> directory with different VS directories in the source tree, now it isn't
> there any more.

CPython 3.5+ uses the Universal CRT on Windows, which is a system
component in Vista and later (a recommended update for Windows
versions prior to 10). See this blog post:

http://stevedower.id.au/blog/building-for-python-3-5


From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Sun Mar 12 16:47:25 2017
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 21:47:25 +0100
Subject: Does one create an event to notify parent window/GUI of something?
In-Reply-To: <8mqfpd-4d7.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
References: <8mqfpd-4d7.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <CAHzaPENrFdXE4ygg9iWiZFoHiAtc0mV2ygjbbZcHcM-J9Y3hyA@mail.gmail.com>

2017-03-12 13:14 GMT+01:00 Chris Green <cl at isbd.net>:
...
>
> This question relates to how one communicates between windows/GUIs.
>
> When the program starts theres a main GUI, class name abookgui.  If
> you want to add new entries or modify existing entries an edit GUI is
> started in a separate window, class abookeditgui.
>
> I need the abookeditgui window to be able to tell the parent abookgui
> window that it has completed whatever it was doing.
...
>
> --
> Chris Green
> ?
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Hi,
I am not sure, whether it counts as the "bad way" of doing it, you
mentined, but the most obvious approach seems to be passing a
reference to the parent object on creation of the child object (e.g.
dialog window), that way you can have event handlers in the child
class/gui, which can call methods of the parent class; it can then
handle e.g. saving the data.
Other than that, you can use specialised mechanisms like pubsub,
especially for more complex requirements of event handling.
I don't have experience with pygtk, but I believe, there might be
similar principles like in other gui toolkits.
You may find this more comprehensive explanation (refering to tkinter) useful:
http://stackoverflow.com/a/33650527

The concept of controller is be more flexible for some usecases,
however at the very basics you can couple the child class to the
parent directly, such as in the following sample:
http://stackoverflow.com/a/30690881

Note especially the referencing of objects between classes in the
mentioned code:

class Widgets(tk.Frame):
    def __init__(self, parent):
    ...
        self.parent = parent
  ...
        self.button = tk.Button(text='hello', command=self.parent.get_details)



...

class App(tk.Frame):
...
        self.widgets = Widgets(self)
  ...
   def get_details(self): ...


And of course, you could probably also use a global variable to
reference the respective objects, but this would most likely count as
the bad way to do it in some respect.

I believe, others might give more specific answers, with respect to
the gui you are using.

hth,
   vbr


From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Sun Mar 12 17:20:30 2017
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 22:20:30 +0100
Subject: Regular expression query
In-Reply-To: <b51fd856-0adb-4bee-b547-5916dea139e3@googlegroups.com>
References: <b51fd856-0adb-4bee-b547-5916dea139e3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAHzaPENhsUfyo7Y193bMBw5N8a+bCndwDW=gyj5z8_rj3zh51w@mail.gmail.com>

2017-03-12 17:22 GMT+01:00  <rahulrasal at gmail.com>:
> Hi All,
>
> I have a string which looks like
>
> aaaaa,bbbbb,ccccc "4873898374", ddddd, eeeeee "3343,23,23,5,,5,45", fffff "5546,3434,345,34,34,5,34,543,7"
>
> It is comma saperated string, but some of the fields have a double quoted string as part of it (and that double quoted string can have commas).
> Above string have only 6 fields. First is aaaaa, second is bbbbb and last is fffff "5546,3434,345,34,34,5,34,543,7".
> How can I split this string in its fields using regular expression ? or even if there is any other way to do this, please speak out.
>
> Thanks in advance
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Hi,
would something like the following pattern fulfill the requirements?
(It doesn't handle possible empty fields, as mentioned in other posts,
the surrounding whitespace can be removed separately:

>>>
>>> re.findall(r'(?:(?:"[^"]*"|[^,]))+(?=,|$)', 'aaaaa,bbbbb,ccccc "4873898374", ddddd, eeeeee "3343,23,23,5,,5,45", fffff "5546,3434,345,34,34,5,34,543,7"')
['aaaaa', 'bbbbb', 'ccccc "4873898374"', ' ddddd', ' eeeeee
"3343,23,23,5,,5,45"', ' fffff "5546,3434,345,34,34,5,34,543,7"']
>>>
>>> for field in re.findall(r'(?:(?:"[^"]*"|[^,]))+(?=,|$)', 'aaaaa,bbbbb,ccccc "4873898374", ddddd, eeeeee "3343,23,23,5,,5,45", fffff "5546,3434,345,34,34,5,34,543,7"'): print(field.strip())
...
aaaaa
bbbbb
ccccc "4873898374"
ddddd
eeeeee "3343,23,23,5,,5,45"
fffff "5546,3434,345,34,34,5,34,543,7"
>>>

hth,
   vbr


From cl at isbd.net  Sun Mar 12 17:32:48 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 21:32:48 +0000
Subject: Does one create an event to notify parent window/GUI of something?
References: <8mqfpd-4d7.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <CAHzaPENrFdXE4ygg9iWiZFoHiAtc0mV2ygjbbZcHcM-J9Y3hyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.7.1489351654.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0drgpd-8ag.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

Vlastimil Brom <vlastimil.brom at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2017-03-12 13:14 GMT+01:00 Chris Green <cl at isbd.net>:
> ...
> >
> > This question relates to how one communicates between windows/GUIs.
> >
> > When the program starts theres a main GUI, class name abookgui.  If
> > you want to add new entries or modify existing entries an edit GUI is
> > started in a separate window, class abookeditgui.
> >
> > I need the abookeditgui window to be able to tell the parent abookgui
> > window that it has completed whatever it was doing.
> ...
> >
> > --
> > Chris Green
> > ?
> > --
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> Hi,
> I am not sure, whether it counts as the "bad way" of doing it, you
> mentined, but the most obvious approach seems to be passing a
> reference to the parent object on creation of the child object (e.g.
> dialog window), that way you can have event handlers in the child
> class/gui, which can call methods of the parent class; it can then
> handle e.g. saving the data.

Yes, I saw this as one way of doing it but I wondered whether there
was a neater way.

What I have actually done is to pass a function as a paraemeter into
the Edit GUI so that when the Edit GUI completes it can call the
function that the 'parent' has passed to it.  Similar really to what
you have suggested.


> Other than that, you can use specialised mechanisms like pubsub,
> especially for more complex requirements of event handling.
> I don't have experience with pygtk, but I believe, there might be
> similar principles like in other gui toolkits.
> You may find this more comprehensive explanation (refering to tkinter) useful:
> http://stackoverflow.com/a/33650527
> 
> The concept of controller is be more flexible for some usecases,
> however at the very basics you can couple the child class to the
> parent directly, such as in the following sample:
> http://stackoverflow.com/a/30690881
> 
> Note especially the referencing of objects between classes in the
> mentioned code:
> 
> class Widgets(tk.Frame):
>     def __init__(self, parent):
>     ...
>         self.parent = parent
>   ...
>         self.button = tk.Button(text='hello', command=self.parent.get_details)
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> class App(tk.Frame):
> ...
>         self.widgets = Widgets(self)
>   ...
>    def get_details(self): ...
> 
> 
> And of course, you could probably also use a global variable to
> reference the respective objects, but this would most likely count as
> the bad way to do it in some respect.
> 
Yes! :-)


> I believe, others might give more specific answers, with respect to
> the gui you are using.
> 
> hth,

Yes, thank you.

-- 
Chris Green
?


From cl at isbd.net  Sun Mar 12 18:44:20 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 22:44:20 +0000
Subject: How to iterate through the columns in a row using sqlite3.Row
Message-ID: <4jvgpd-2dh.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

This should be simple but I can't manage it at the moment!  :-)

I have opened a database connection and have set the row_factory to
sqlite3.Row.

So how do I actually iterate through a row of data having used
fetchone to read a row.

I.e. I have:-

        self.conn = sqlite3.connect(dbname)
        self.conn.row_factory = sqlite3.Row
        self.cursor = self.conn.cursor()
        self.table = table
        ...
        ...
        sql = "SELECT * FROM " + self.table + " WHERE firstName||lastName = ?"
        self.cursor.execute(sql, (name,))
        row = self.cursor.fetchone()

I want a for loop which gives me the column names and values.



-- 
Chris Green
?


From torriem at gmail.com  Sun Mar 12 19:40:43 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 17:40:43 -0600
Subject: Does one create an event to notify parent window/GUI of something?
In-Reply-To: <8mqfpd-4d7.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
References: <8mqfpd-4d7.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <9bcee537-82ab-dd92-fda1-c05b971b8e06@gmail.com>

On 03/12/2017 06:14 AM, Chris Green wrote:
> There are (of course) event handlers for the 'Save' and 'Cancel'
> button click events in abookeditgui, what I need is hooks from these
> to run some code in abookgui after the abookeditgui has completed. How
> should one do this, is there a way for a class to call code in the
> class 'above' which instantiated it?

Sure.  Have the child object emit custom signal that your parent object
attaches to a callback.





From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Mar 12 20:28:46 2017
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 00:28:46 +0000
Subject: How to iterate through the columns in a row using sqlite3.Row
In-Reply-To: <4jvgpd-2dh.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
References: <4jvgpd-2dh.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <822cbeb5-b1b7-ce77-87c0-7a30573119ee@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2017-03-12 22:44, Chris Green wrote:
> This should be simple but I can't manage it at the moment!  :-)
>
> I have opened a database connection and have set the row_factory to
> sqlite3.Row.
>
> So how do I actually iterate through a row of data having used
> fetchone to read a row.
>
> I.e. I have:-
>
>         self.conn = sqlite3.connect(dbname)
>         self.conn.row_factory = sqlite3.Row
>         self.cursor = self.conn.cursor()
>         self.table = table
>         ...
>         ...
>         sql = "SELECT * FROM " + self.table + " WHERE firstName||lastName = ?"
>         self.cursor.execute(sql, (name,))
>         row = self.cursor.fetchone()
>
> I want a for loop which gives me the column names and values.
>
The docs tell you that the sqlite3.Row instances are like tuples, but 
with additional features, such as a .keys() method that will tell you 
the column names. Try:

print(row.keys())

With a little experimentation you'll find that can pass it to dict. Try:

print(dict(row))



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Mar 12 20:52:18 2017
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 11:52:18 +1100
Subject: Substitute a mock object for the metaclass of a class
Message-ID: <857f3ugfr1.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

How can I override the metaclass of a Python class, with a
`unittest.mock.MagicMock` instance instead?

I have a function whose job involves working with the metaclass of an
argument::

    # lorem.py

    class Foo(object):
        pass

    def quux(existing_class):
        ?
        metaclass = type(existing_class)
        new_class = metaclass(?)

The unit tests for this function will need to assert that the calls to
the metaclass go as expected, *without* actually calling a real class
object.

To write a unit test for this function, I want to temporarily override
the metaclass of some classes in the system with a mock object instead.
This will allow, for example, making assertions about how the metaclass
was called, and ensuring no unwanted side effects.

    # test_lorem.py

    import unittest
    import unittest.mock

    import lorem

    class stub_metaclass(type):
        def __new__(metaclass, name, bases, namespace):
            return super().__new__(metaclass, name, bases, namespace)

    class quux_TestCase(unittest.TestCase):

        @unittest.mock.patch.object(
                    lorem.Foo, '__class__', side_effect=stub_metaclass)
        def test_calls_expected_metaclass_with_class_name(
                self,
                mock_foo_metaclass,
                ):
            lorem.quux(lorem.Foo)
            mock_foo_metaclass.assert_called_with(
                    'Foo', unittest.mock.ANY, unittest.mock.ANY)

When I try to mock the `__class__` attribute of an existing class,
though, I get this error::

      File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/mock/mock.py", line 1500, in start
        result = self.__enter__()
      File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/mock/mock.py", line 1460, in __enter__
        setattr(self.target, self.attribute, new_attr)
    TypeError: __class__ must be set to a class, not 'MagicMock' object

This is telling me that `unittest.mock.patch` is attempting to set the
`__class__` attribute temporarily to a `MagicMock` instance, as I want;
but Python is refusing that with a `TypeError`.

But placing a mock object as the metaclass (the class's `__class__`
attribute) is exactly what I'm trying to do, *in order that* the mock
object will do all that it does: record calls, pretend valid behaviour,
etc.

How can I set a mock object in place of the class's `__class__`
attribute, in order to instrument my code for testing metaclass
operation?

-- 
 \        ?The problem with television is that the people must sit and |
  `\    keep their eyes glued on a screen: the average American family |
_o__)                 hasn't time for it.? ?_The New York Times_, 1939 |
Ben Finney



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sun Mar 12 21:22:04 2017
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 18:22:04 -0700
Subject: How to iterate through the columns in a row using sqlite3.Row
References: <4jvgpd-2dh.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <87mvcqots3.fsf@nightsong.com>

Chris Green <cl at isbd.net> writes:
>         self.conn = sqlite3.connect(dbname)
>         self.conn.row_factory = sqlite3.Row
>         self.cursor = self.conn.cursor()
>         self.table = table
>         ...
>         ...
>         sql = "SELECT * FROM " + self.table + " WHERE firstName||lastName = ?"
>         self.cursor.execute(sql, (name,))
>         row = self.cursor.fetchone()

untested:

with sqlite3.connect(dbname) as conn:
   sql = "SELECT * FROM " + self.table + " WHERE firstName||lastName = ?"
   cursor = conn.execute(sql, (name,))
   row = cursor.fetchone()


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Sun Mar 12 21:51:01 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 12:51:01 +1100
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87inne1ggt.fsf@universite-de-strasbourg.fr.invalid>
Message-ID: <58c5fb06$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 05:45 am, Alain Ketterlin wrote:

> Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info> writes:
[...]
>> It seems that os.remove on Linux will force the delete even if the file
>> is read-only or unreadable, provided you own the file.
> 
> Your permissions on the file do not really matters. It's all about your
> permissions on the parent directory (removing a file is really modifying
> the parent dir). Actually, it is even slightly more complicated. Here is
> an excerpt of the unlink(2) call (which does the job) listing common
> error cases:

Thanks for the detailed explanation, and to everyone else who corrected my
misunderstanding.



-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From torriem at gmail.com  Sun Mar 12 23:26:31 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 21:26:31 -0600
Subject: Compiling new Pythons on old Windows compilers
In-Reply-To: <CACL+1as_7GLqL79mrByx_RwjC19fif2MKzfdes2V+UDzZXBotA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAoZyYNVMFYD0argk5sES7SKyGs8pn6-WBXumeDVSJ5AMaZVCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1as_7GLqL79mrByx_RwjC19fif2MKzfdes2V+UDzZXBotA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aca99fd7-97f8-07f4-b829-c5fbc27b648c@gmail.com>

On 03/12/2017 02:45 PM, eryk sun wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 12, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Eric Frederich
> <eric.frederich at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Any idea why compatibility was dropped recently?  There used to be a PC
>> directory with different VS directories in the source tree, now it isn't
>> there any more.
> 
> CPython 3.5+ uses the Universal CRT on Windows, which is a system
> component in Vista and later (a recommended update for Windows
> versions prior to 10). See this blog post:
> 
> http://stevedower.id.au/blog/building-for-python-3-5

Hmm, this is going to be a huge problem for Python users that work with
proprietary software that is fixed to specific versions of MSCVRT.  The
idea that everyone should just update their builds to the latest
universal runtime is a good one, but it's just not going to happen
across the entire software industry anytime soon.  Especially for
existing releases.  Looks like Python 3 is a no go for Eric.

The runtime mixing issue has always been a problem for Windows
developers.  Not sure the universal runtime really solves it!


From torriem at gmail.com  Sun Mar 12 23:34:56 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 21:34:56 -0600
Subject: Compiling new Pythons on old Windows compilers
In-Reply-To: <aca99fd7-97f8-07f4-b829-c5fbc27b648c@gmail.com>
References: <CAAoZyYNVMFYD0argk5sES7SKyGs8pn6-WBXumeDVSJ5AMaZVCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1as_7GLqL79mrByx_RwjC19fif2MKzfdes2V+UDzZXBotA@mail.gmail.com>
 <aca99fd7-97f8-07f4-b829-c5fbc27b648c@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0a5783d8-cdc4-f94d-dfdf-a91719ec9444@gmail.com>

On 03/12/2017 09:26 PM, Michael Torrie wrote:
> On 03/12/2017 02:45 PM, eryk sun wrote:
>> On Sun, Mar 12, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Eric Frederich
>> <eric.frederich at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Any idea why compatibility was dropped recently?  There used to be a PC
>>> directory with different VS directories in the source tree, now it isn't
>>> there any more.
>>
>> CPython 3.5+ uses the Universal CRT on Windows, which is a system
>> component in Vista and later (a recommended update for Windows
>> versions prior to 10). See this blog post:
>>
>> http://stevedower.id.au/blog/building-for-python-3-5

Did I read that right that you can link python statically so you can use
the new universal runtime-based python to extend an app with another
runtime (but requiring administrator access somehow?)?



From cl at isbd.net  Mon Mar 13 04:37:03 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 08:37:03 +0000
Subject: Does one create an event to notify parent window/GUI of something?
References: <8mqfpd-4d7.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <9bcee537-82ab-dd92-fda1-c05b971b8e06@gmail.com>
 <mailman.9.1489362055.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fa2ipd-h2q.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 03/12/2017 06:14 AM, Chris Green wrote:
> > There are (of course) event handlers for the 'Save' and 'Cancel'
> > button click events in abookeditgui, what I need is hooks from these
> > to run some code in abookgui after the abookeditgui has completed. How
> > should one do this, is there a way for a class to call code in the
> > class 'above' which instantiated it?
> 
> Sure.  Have the child object emit custom signal that your parent object
> attaches to a callback.
> 
Thanks, I guess this is probably the 'proper' event driven way to do
it.  What I have actually done for the moment is to hand a function
handle from the parent to the child so that the child can execute the
code at the required time.

-- 
Chris Green
?


From cl at isbd.net  Mon Mar 13 04:42:22 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 08:42:22 +0000
Subject: How to iterate through the columns in a row using sqlite3.Row
References: <4jvgpd-2dh.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu> <87mvcqots3.fsf@nightsong.com>
Message-ID: <ek2ipd-h2q.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Chris Green <cl at isbd.net> writes:
> >         self.conn = sqlite3.connect(dbname)
> >         self.conn.row_factory = sqlite3.Row
> >         self.cursor = self.conn.cursor()
> >         self.table = table
> >         ...
> >         ...
> >         sql = "SELECT * FROM " + self.table + " WHERE firstName||lastName = ?"
> >         self.cursor.execute(sql, (name,))
> >         row = self.cursor.fetchone()
> 
> untested:
> 
> with sqlite3.connect(dbname) as conn:
>    sql = "SELECT * FROM " + self.table + " WHERE firstName||lastName = ?"
>    cursor = conn.execute(sql, (name,))
>    row = cursor.fetchone()

Ay?  I've maybe not explained well.

I want to iterate through row *after* the above code such that I can
see the column names as 'keys' and the corresponding values.

-- 
Chris Green
?


From cl at isbd.net  Mon Mar 13 04:43:55 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 08:43:55 +0000
Subject: How to iterate through the columns in a row using sqlite3.Row
References: <4jvgpd-2dh.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <822cbeb5-b1b7-ce77-87c0-7a30573119ee@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.10.1489364940.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bn2ipd-h2q.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> On 2017-03-12 22:44, Chris Green wrote:
> > This should be simple but I can't manage it at the moment!  :-)
> >
> > I have opened a database connection and have set the row_factory to
> > sqlite3.Row.
> >
> > So how do I actually iterate through a row of data having used
> > fetchone to read a row.
> >
> > I.e. I have:-
> >
> >         self.conn = sqlite3.connect(dbname)
> >         self.conn.row_factory = sqlite3.Row
> >         self.cursor = self.conn.cursor()
> >         self.table = table
> >         ...
> >         ...
> >         sql = "SELECT * FROM " + self.table + " WHERE firstName||lastName = ?"
> >         self.cursor.execute(sql, (name,))
> >         row = self.cursor.fetchone()
> >
> > I want a for loop which gives me the column names and values.
> >
> The docs tell you that the sqlite3.Row instances are like tuples, but 
> with additional features, such as a .keys() method that will tell you 
> the column names. Try:
> 
> print(row.keys())
> 
> With a little experimentation you'll find that can pass it to dict. Try:
> 
> print(dict(row))
> 
so are you saying that I should be able to write:-

    rowAsDict = dict(row)

-- 
Chris Green
?


From eryksun at gmail.com  Mon Mar 13 05:47:45 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 09:47:45 +0000
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
In-Reply-To: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1auv0oUGWcLgHJspZrRaPBUAhRrAUYuWt+KXcx-ZNB7hgg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 12, 2017 at 5:48 PM, Steve D'Aprano
<steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>
> Does os.remove work like this under Windows too?

os.remove calls DeleteFile on Windows. This in turn calls NtOpenFile
to instantiate a kernel File object that has delete access and return
a handle to it. Next it calls NtSetInformationFile on the handle to
set the file's "DeleteFile" disposition. Either of these operations
can fail.

One hurdle to getting delete access is the sharing mode. If there are
existing File objects that reference the file, they all have to share
delete access. Otherwise the open fails with a sharing violation. This
is often the show stopper because the C runtime (and thus CPython,
usually) opens files with read and write sharing but not delete
sharing.

Another hurdle is paging files, but a program really has no business
trying to delete a critical system file. You'll get a sharing
violation if a file is currently mapped as one of the system's paging
files. Windows supports up to 16 paging files, each on a separate
volume, so it's not like this is a common problem.

Otherwise, getting delete access depends on the file system. If it
doesn't implement security (e.g. FAT32), then delete access is always
granted. If it does implement security (e.g. NTFS), then first I think
we need to discuss the basics of NT security.

----

Secured objects have a security descriptor that contains the security
identifier (SID) of the owner and (optionally) a primary group (not
used by Windows). It also may contain a discretionary access control
list (DACL) and a system access control list (SACL). Each of these
contains a list of access control entries (ACEs) that either allow or
deny the specified access mask for a given user/group SID
(canonically, deny ACEs should be sorted before allow ACEs). For use
with container objects, such as file-system directories, an ACE also
has the following flags to control inheritance: object inherit,
container inherit, no propagate inherit (i.e. clear the
object/container inherit flags on inherited ACEs), and inherent only
(i.e. don't apply this ACE to the object itself).

An access mask is a 32-bit value, with one right mapped to each bit.
The lower half defines up to 16 rights that are specific to an object
type, such as File, Process, or Thread. The next 8 bits are standard
rights (e.g. delete) that are defined the same for all objects. The
upper 4 bits are for generic read (GR), write (GW), execute (GE), and
all (GA) access. In an access check, generic rights should be
translated to standard and specific rights according to a generic
mapping that's defined for each type.

Each process has a primary token, and each thread in a process
optionally can have an impersonation token. An access token (and the
associated logon session) is usually created by the local security
authority (the lsass.exe process), which is coupled with the security
monitor in the kernel. A token contains a list of user/group SIDs,
which are used in an access check if they're flagged as either enabled
or use-for-deny-only (i.e. only for deny ACEs). A token also has a
list of privileges and their enable state. A token is itself a secured
object; it's an instance of the Token type.

A token is assigned an integrity level. The term "elevating" refers in
part to starting a process with a token that has a higher integrity
level, for which the available levels are low, medium (default), high,
and system. A secured object's SACL can contain a mandatory label ACE,
which sets its integrity level. The mask field of this ACE isn't a
32-bit access mask, but rather it consists of up to 3 flag values --
no-write-up, no-read-up, and no-execute-up -- that determine whether a
token at a lower integrity level is allowed write/delete, read, or
execute access. If a secured object doesn't have a mandatory label
ACE, then it implicitly has a medium integrity level with no-write-up.

----

OK, that covers the basics.

If the current token contains the privilege SeRestorePrivilege (e.g. a
token for an elevated administrator), and it's enabled, then delete
access will always be granted regardless of the file's security
descriptor. The restore privilege is quite empowering, so enable it
with caution.

A file's DACL will either allow or explicitly deny delete access. If
access isn't explicitly allowed, then it's implicitly denied. However,
delete access will still be granted if the parent directory grants
delete-child access. The delete-child right is specific to the File
type -- specifically for directories.

If the file's SACL mandatory access includes no-write-up, then a user
at a lower integrity level will not be able to open the file for
delete access, even if the file's DACL (discretionary access)
otherwise allows it. However, delete access is still granted if the
parent directory grants delete-child access to the user. Thus
parent-level discretionary access trumps object-level mandatory
access.

The next step is setting the file's "DeleteFile" disposition. First
let's take a close look at how this works.

----

In user mode, a kernel object such as a File instance is referenced as
a handle. Duplicating the handle creates a new reference to the
object. However, if you open the file/device again, you'll get a
handle for a new object. All File objects that reference the same data
file will share a file or link control block (FCB) structure that,
among other things, is used to track sharing of read, write, and
delete access and the file's delete disposition.

When the delete disposition is set, no new File references can be
instantiated (i.e. any level of access is denied, even just to read
the file attributes), but the file isn't immediately unlinked. It's
still listed in the parent directory. Any existing File reference that
has delete access can unset the delete disposition.

When all handle and pointer references to a File object are closed,
the file system decrements the reference count on the FCB. When the
FCB reference count drops to 0, if the delete disposition is currently
set, then finally the file is unlinked from the parent directory.

----

I can think of a couple of cases in which setting the delete
disposition will fail with access denied.

If the file is currently memory-mapped as code or data (e.g. an EXE or
DLL), but not for system paging, then you can open it for delete
access, but only renaming the file will succeed (it can be renamed
anywhere on the volume, but not to another volume). Setting the delete
disposition will fail with access denied. The system won't allow a
mapped file to be unlinked.

Finally, I'm sure most people are familiar with the read-only file
attribute. If this attribute is set you can still open a file with
delete access to rename it, but setting the delete disposition will
fail with access denied.

You may complain that the system has granted the user delete access,
so getting an access denied error is a breach of contract. You'd be
right, but the kernel actually returns STATUS_CANNOT_DELETE. The
Windows API maps this to ERROR_ACCESS_DENIED.

    STATUS_CANNOT_DELETE = 0xC0000121
    ERROR_ACCESS_DENIED = 0x0005

    >>> ntdll.RtlNtStatusToDosError(STATUS_CANNOT_DELETE)
    5

It's often the case that useful information is lost when mapping a
kernel status code to a Windows error code. This is an inherent
problem with layered APIs. Even more information is lost when the C
runtime maps the Windows error to a POSIX errno value such as EACCES.


From marko at pacujo.net  Mon Mar 13 06:08:37 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 12:08:37 +0200
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CACL+1auv0oUGWcLgHJspZrRaPBUAhRrAUYuWt+KXcx-ZNB7hgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1489398514.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87k27tzdy2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

eryk sun <eryksun at gmail.com>:

> On Sun, Mar 12, 2017 at 5:48 PM, Steve D'Aprano
> <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>
>> Does os.remove work like this under Windows too?
>
> os.remove calls DeleteFile on Windows. [...]

Fascinating info, Eryk.

The difference between file removal in Linux and Windows is a bit like
the difference between object destrution in C++ and Python. In C++, you
destroy an object with a "delete" statement. In Python, you can't
destroy an object, you can simply lose all references to it.


Marko


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Mar 13 06:26:19 2017
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 11:26:19 +0100
Subject: How to iterate through the columns in a row using sqlite3.Row
References: <4jvgpd-2dh.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <822cbeb5-b1b7-ce77-87c0-7a30573119ee@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.10.1489364940.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <bn2ipd-h2q.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <oa5s46$m2b$1@blaine.gmane.org>

Chris Green wrote:

> MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>> On 2017-03-12 22:44, Chris Green wrote:
>> > This should be simple but I can't manage it at the moment!  :-)
>> >
>> > I have opened a database connection and have set the row_factory to
>> > sqlite3.Row.
>> >
>> > So how do I actually iterate through a row of data having used
>> > fetchone to read a row.
>> >
>> > I.e. I have:-
>> >
>> >         self.conn = sqlite3.connect(dbname)
>> >         self.conn.row_factory = sqlite3.Row
>> >         self.cursor = self.conn.cursor()
>> >         self.table = table
>> >         ...
>> >         ...
>> >         sql = "SELECT * FROM " + self.table + " WHERE
>> >         firstName||lastName = ?" self.cursor.execute(sql, (name,))
>> >         row = self.cursor.fetchone()
>> >
>> > I want a for loop which gives me the column names and values.
>> >
>> The docs tell you that the sqlite3.Row instances are like tuples, but
>> with additional features, such as a .keys() method that will tell you
>> the column names. Try:
>> 
>> print(row.keys())
>> 
>> With a little experimentation you'll find that can pass it to dict. Try:
>> 
>> print(dict(row))
>> 
> so are you saying that I should be able to write:-
> 
>     rowAsDict = dict(row)

You can either forget about about the custom row_factory and use 
cursor.description

>>> import sqlite3
>>> db = sqlite3.connect(":memory:")
>>> cs = db.cursor()
>>> cs.execute("select 1 foo, 2 bar")
<sqlite3.Cursor object at 0x7f9a5b37f3b0>
>>> names = [col[0] for col in cs.description]
>>> names
['foo', 'bar']
>>> for row in cs:
...     for name, value in zip(names, row):
...         print(name, value, sep=": ")
... 
foo: 1
bar: 2

or use sqlite3.Row and its keys() method:

>>> cs.row_factory = sqlite3.Row
>>> for row in cs.execute("select 1 ham, 2 spam"):
...     for name in row.keys():
...         print(name, row[name], sep=": ")
... 
ham: 1
spam: 2




From ssmadhu80 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 13 07:25:50 2017
From: ssmadhu80 at gmail.com (Madhusudhanan Sambath)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 04:25:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: i got error while writing data to file
Message-ID: <c946ce10-ad60-4a85-af37-06d4dbf47668@googlegroups.com>

hi to all,
this is madhu...i am new to python

this is my python code, where i labeled the reviews taken from amazon as positive, negative and neutral based on review score

i have collected reviews and scores from amazon scrap prg, but i have problem while doing labelling.kindly help me

import nltk
import csv
import ast

data=[]
positivedata=[]
negativedata=[]
neutraldata=[]




with open('E:/amadown2py-master/reviews1.csv', 'r',encoding='UTF8') as csvfile:
    mycsv = csv.reader(csvfile)
    for row in mycsv:
        data = row[0]
        #print (data)
        try:
            score = ast.literal_eval(row[1])
            if score > 3:
                cnt=0;
                #print (score)
                print (data)
                positivedata.append((data))
                with open('E:/amadown2py-master/Sam7_pos_rev.txt',mode='wt') as myfile:
                    myfile.writelines('\n'.join(positivedata))
                    myfile.close()


the above program is able to create file but full reviews are not read from csv . if i print the details about 48kb size, i got more data , but in file it have only 3kb why?kinldy help me
                    


From falter_donald at bah.com  Mon Mar 13 09:24:56 2017
From: falter_donald at bah.com (Falter, Donald [USA])
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 13:24:56 +0000
Subject: [External] Unsubscribe to Python email list
In-Reply-To: <6DD74957-1E1E-4EB3-A1C0-EF7F26392411@hotmail.com>
References: <6DD74957-1E1E-4EB3-A1C0-EF7F26392411@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <93285AC0FA20BA47BE43FA54FCA5B321EDDBD84A@ASHBDAG2M3.resource.ds.bah.com>

Yeah, I think I'm going to bail on this list too.  Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+falter_donald=bah.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Pablo Lozano
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 9:38 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: [External] Unsubscribe to Python email list

Good day,

I would like to unsubscribe this e-mail to the Python e-mail list.

Kind regards
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From torriem at gmail.com  Mon Mar 13 11:15:39 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 09:15:39 -0600
Subject: Does one create an event to notify parent window/GUI of something?
In-Reply-To: <fa2ipd-h2q.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
References: <8mqfpd-4d7.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <9bcee537-82ab-dd92-fda1-c05b971b8e06@gmail.com>
 <mailman.9.1489362055.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <fa2ipd-h2q.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <efdea755-4358-f8b8-7c5a-28c97b36458a@gmail.com>

On 03/13/2017 02:37 AM, Chris Green wrote:
> Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 03/12/2017 06:14 AM, Chris Green wrote:
>>> There are (of course) event handlers for the 'Save' and 'Cancel'
>>> button click events in abookeditgui, what I need is hooks from these
>>> to run some code in abookgui after the abookeditgui has completed. How
>>> should one do this, is there a way for a class to call code in the
>>> class 'above' which instantiated it?
>>
>> Sure.  Have the child object emit custom signal that your parent object
>> attaches to a callback.
>>
> Thanks, I guess this is probably the 'proper' event driven way to do
> it.  What I have actually done for the moment is to hand a function
> handle from the parent to the child so that the child can execute the
> code at the required time.

Sure.  What you are doing is perfectly acceptable and is a common
pattern.  Callbacks are potentially faster than signals and slots (to
use the Qt parlance) also.

Makes me wonder in what cases are signals and slots desired vs
callbacks. Async frameworks tend to use callbacks and they often chain
them up just like signals can be connected to multiple slots.  I suppose
one advantage of signals and lots is that you can get a handle to each
connection for disconnecting later, whereas with callback chains it's
pretty opaque once you set them up (say in Twisted or something similar).


From amit at phpandmore.net  Mon Mar 13 12:19:05 2017
From: amit at phpandmore.net (Amit Yaron)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 18:19:05 +0200
Subject: i got error while writing data to file
In-Reply-To: <c946ce10-ad60-4a85-af37-06d4dbf47668@googlegroups.com>
References: <c946ce10-ad60-4a85-af37-06d4dbf47668@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <58C6C679.1030705@phpandmore.net>

You open the file more than once for which row with score greater than 3.
Every time you open a file for writing it truncates an existing one with 
the same name.

On 13/03/17 13:25, Madhusudhanan Sambath wrote:
> hi to all,
> this is madhu...i am new to python
>
> this is my python code, where i labeled the reviews taken from amazon as positive, negative and neutral based on review score
>
> i have collected reviews and scores from amazon scrap prg, but i have problem while doing labelling.kindly help me
>
> import nltk
> import csv
> import ast
>
> data=[]
> positivedata=[]
> negativedata=[]
> neutraldata=[]
>
>
>
>
> with open('E:/amadown2py-master/reviews1.csv', 'r',encoding='UTF8') as csvfile:
>      mycsv = csv.reader(csvfile)
>      for row in mycsv:
>          data = row[0]
>          #print (data)
>          try:
>              score = ast.literal_eval(row[1])
>              if score > 3:
>                  cnt=0;
>                  #print (score)
>                  print (data)
>                  positivedata.append((data))
>                  with open('E:/amadown2py-master/Sam7_pos_rev.txt',mode='wt') as myfile:
>                      myfile.writelines('\n'.join(positivedata))
>                      myfile.close()
>
>
> the above program is able to create file but full reviews are not read from csv . if i print the details about 48kb size, i got more data , but in file it have only 3kb why?kinldy help me
>
>



From amit at phpandmore.net  Mon Mar 13 12:19:05 2017
From: amit at phpandmore.net (Amit Yaron)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 18:19:05 +0200
Subject: i got error while writing data to file
In-Reply-To: <c946ce10-ad60-4a85-af37-06d4dbf47668@googlegroups.com>
References: <c946ce10-ad60-4a85-af37-06d4dbf47668@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <58C6C679.1030705@phpandmore.net>

You open the file more than once for which row with score greater than 3.
Every time you open a file for writing it truncates an existing one with 
the same name.

On 13/03/17 13:25, Madhusudhanan Sambath wrote:
> hi to all,
> this is madhu...i am new to python
>
> this is my python code, where i labeled the reviews taken from amazon as positive, negative and neutral based on review score
>
> i have collected reviews and scores from amazon scrap prg, but i have problem while doing labelling.kindly help me
>
> import nltk
> import csv
> import ast
>
> data=[]
> positivedata=[]
> negativedata=[]
> neutraldata=[]
>
>
>
>
> with open('E:/amadown2py-master/reviews1.csv', 'r',encoding='UTF8') as csvfile:
>      mycsv = csv.reader(csvfile)
>      for row in mycsv:
>          data = row[0]
>          #print (data)
>          try:
>              score = ast.literal_eval(row[1])
>              if score > 3:
>                  cnt=0;
>                  #print (score)
>                  print (data)
>                  positivedata.append((data))
>                  with open('E:/amadown2py-master/Sam7_pos_rev.txt',mode='wt') as myfile:
>                      myfile.writelines('\n'.join(positivedata))
>                      myfile.close()
>
>
> the above program is able to create file but full reviews are not read from csv . if i print the details about 48kb size, i got more data , but in file it have only 3kb why?kinldy help me
>
>




From cannedham284 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 13 12:42:27 2017
From: cannedham284 at hotmail.com (Ben Iannitelli)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 16:42:27 +0000
Subject: i got error while writing data to file
In-Reply-To: <c946ce10-ad60-4a85-af37-06d4dbf47668@googlegroups.com>
References: <c946ce10-ad60-4a85-af37-06d4dbf47668@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CY4PR19MB1271A083CCBA56E0FCF0DCD896250@CY4PR19MB1271.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Madhu,

I don't know much about web scraping but I can explain why your output is so much smaller than your input: you keep writing over your output file. The way I see it you have two options:

1. Where you wrote "mode='wt'", change "wt" to "at". The replacement "at" appends your output text, as opposed to "wt", which writes over your output text as if the file hadn't already existed.

2. Leave the file modes alone,  but move the "with" statement further up the "for" block. If you use this option, your code should look more like below (if email didn't garble the formatting):

with open('E:/amadown2py-master/reviews1.csv', 'r',encoding='UTF8') as csvfile:
    mycsv = csv.reader(csvfile)
    for row in mycsv:
        data = row[0]
        #print (data)
        with open('E:/amadown2py-master/Sam7_pos_rev.txt',mode='wt') as myfile:#Moved this!
            try:
                score = ast.literal_eval(row[1])
                if score > 3:
                    cnt=0;
                    #print (score)
                    print (data)
                    positivedata.append((data))
                    myfile.writelines('\n'.join(positivedata))
                    #myfile.close()#You shouldn't need this, bc you're using "with"

Of the two options, I would think that option 1 is easier.

HTH,

Ben I.


From padawanwebdev at gmail.com  Mon Mar 13 13:40:12 2017
From: padawanwebdev at gmail.com (padawanwebdev at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 10:40:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Issues with in try except and excel spreadsheet
Message-ID: <b9512655-7ddd-4f5c-b22d-31015f1ddb9c@googlegroups.com>

Hello, I'm having a problem with a try except inside a while loop. The problem I see occuring has to do with an excel file the script tries to write to while the excel file is open. The exception captures and gives an error:

OError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:'C:\\Users\\Administrator\\Desktop\\Version5.0\\DeviceTrackerReport45.xlsx'

This is expected and is not the problem. However, the issue occurs when I close the excel file. As an example, if I run the script and the excel file is open thru 3 iterations, meaning that the script can't write to the excel file until the excel file is closed, then after the excel file is closed the script prints to the excel file 3 times. I don't need it to write to the excel file 3 times. I only need it to write just once. If the excel file is closed before I run the script than it works like its suppose too. 
I hope I made my case clear. I look forward to some feedback. Any would be greatly appreciated!  

here is part of the code:
        
        connectionResults = None
        returnResults = InternetQualityTest.connectionTest(connectionResults)
        if returnResults == True:
            try:
                execfile('assetMapping.py')
                time.sleep(4)
                sys.exit()
            except Exception as e:
                print "error",e
                time.sleep(20)

FYI: The assetMapping.py runs another module from inside, and it's this module running from assetMapping that writes to the excel file.


From cannedham284 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 13 13:45:53 2017
From: cannedham284 at hotmail.com (Ben Iannitelli)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 17:45:53 +0000
Subject: i got error while writing data to file
In-Reply-To: <CY4PR19MB1271A083CCBA56E0FCF0DCD896250@CY4PR19MB1271.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <c946ce10-ad60-4a85-af37-06d4dbf47668@googlegroups.com>,
 <CY4PR19MB1271A083CCBA56E0FCF0DCD896250@CY4PR19MB1271.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CY4PR19MB12711572CD135DD2F52098DC96250@CY4PR19MB1271.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Hello again,

It seems I was a little too quick to hit "send". Option #2 of the two possible solutions I offered is not right. Here's what it should be (unless the formatting gets garbled):

with open('E:/amadown2py-master/reviews1.csv', 'r',encoding='UTF8') as csvfile:
    with open('E:/amadown2py-master/Sam7_pos_rev.txt',mode='wt') as myfile:#Moved this!
        mycsv = csv.reader(csvfile)
        for row in mycsv:
            data = row[0]
            #print (data)
            try:
                score = ast.literal_eval(row[1])
                if score > 3:
                    cnt=0;
                    #print (score)
                    print (data)
                    positivedata.append((data))
                    myfile.writelines('\n'.join(positivedata))
                    #myfile.close()#You shouldn't need this, bc you're using "with"

ttfn,

Ben I.


From cl at isbd.net  Mon Mar 13 13:58:08 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 17:58:08 +0000
Subject: How to set initial size of gtk.TextView window?
Message-ID: <g63jpd-cic.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

I have a series of data fields laid out in a Vbox, the size needs to
vary, some need to be two lines high, others four lines or more.

The code creating the fields is:-

    def __init__(self, multiline=0):
        self.multiline = multiline
        if (self.multiline):
            self.buffer = gtk.TextBuffer()
            self.view = gtk.TextView(self.buffer)
            self.widget = gtk.ScrolledWindow()
            self.widget.add(self.view)
            self.widget.set_policy(gtk.POLICY_AUTOMATIC, gtk.POLICY_AUTOMATIC)
            self.widget.set_shadow_type(gtk.SHADOW_ETCHED_IN)
        else:
            self.widget = gtk.Entry()

As can be seen there are single line boxes and multiline ones, what I
want to be able to do is to have a parameter (or just use multiline)
to set the initial number of lines in the TextView fields.

Is it a matter of using gtk.Widget.set_size_request() or is there an
easier way?

-- 
Chris Green
?


From rhodri at kynesim.co.uk  Mon Mar 13 14:01:41 2017
From: rhodri at kynesim.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 18:01:41 +0000
Subject: Issues with in try except and excel spreadsheet
In-Reply-To: <b9512655-7ddd-4f5c-b22d-31015f1ddb9c@googlegroups.com>
References: <b9512655-7ddd-4f5c-b22d-31015f1ddb9c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b1e75f37-4c09-b161-12e2-4836b08f15d9@kynesim.co.uk>

On 13/03/17 17:40, padawanwebdev at gmail.com wrote:
> Hello, I'm having a problem with a try except inside a while loop. The problem I see occuring has to do with an excel file the script tries to write to while the excel file is open. The exception captures and gives an error:
>
> OError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:'C:\\Users\\Administrator\\Desktop\\Version5.0\\DeviceTrackerReport45.xlsx'
>
> This is expected and is not the problem. However, the issue occurs when I close the excel file. As an example, if I run the script and the excel file is open thru 3 iterations, meaning that the script can't write to the excel file until the excel file is closed, then after the excel file is closed the script prints to the excel file 3 times. I don't need it to write to the excel file 3 times. I only need it to write just once. If the excel file is closed before I run the script than it works like its suppose too.
> I hope I made my case clear. I look forward to some feedback. Any would be greatly appreciated!

When you say "...the excel file is open thru 3 iterations", what do you 
mean?  Three iterations of what?  You haven't shown us a loop, so it's 
not obvious.

How do you know it prints (writes?) to the excel file three times? 
Again, there's nothing in the code snippet that would tell you.

> here is part of the code:
>
>         connectionResults = None
>         returnResults = InternetQualityTest.connectionTest(connectionResults)
>         if returnResults == True:
>             try:
>                 execfile('assetMapping.py')
>                 time.sleep(4)
>                 sys.exit()
>             except Exception as e:
>                 print "error",e
>                 time.sleep(20)

This looks plausible, though honestly the execfile makes me feel icky 
for unrelated reasons.  I repeat, though; this isn't a loop, and my 
crystal ball isn't up to telling me how it gets invoked.

> FYI: The assetMapping.py runs another module from inside, and it's this module running from assetMapping that writes to the excel file.
>


-- 
Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd


From gordon at panix.com  Mon Mar 13 14:04:56 2017
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 18:04:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What's the neatest way of getting dictionary entries in a
 specified order?
References: <lh26pd-v6f.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <8f090d66-b3d2-00ac-ca5b-5745d96a11b7@gmail.com>
 <mailman.205.1489033871.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <up08pd-mk4.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <4c80c74c-16f3-26d5-0a31-2cdeef0216fa@lucidity.plus.com>
 <mailman.218.1489098617.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <ti5apd-tas.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu> <58C2778A.60400@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.229.1489139582.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <58c3316d$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <4sucpd-g59.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>
 <f0ba2296-0963-de2e-3a3b-e69ff939ff31@gmail.com>
 <mailman.241.1489242093.2612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oa6n07$9m4$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <mailman.241.1489242093.2612.python-list at python.org> Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> writes:

> The order of the displayed fields is usually something set by the GUI
> API when you create the table widget. At least in most toolkits I'm
> familiar with.  As well, when you add the row to the widget, you
> normally specify the fields (the data) individually, so I would think
> the order of the dict's fields does not matter since you'd manually
> specify each field's data.

The original example used a loop to get all of the dict fields and
add them to the GUI, instead of adding each field individually.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From padawanwebdev at gmail.com  Mon Mar 13 16:37:26 2017
From: padawanwebdev at gmail.com (padawanwebdev at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 13:37:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Issues with in try except and excel spreadsheet
In-Reply-To: <mailman.24.1489428626.2614.python-list@python.org>
References: <b9512655-7ddd-4f5c-b22d-31015f1ddb9c@googlegroups.com>
 <b1e75f37-4c09-b161-12e2-4836b08f15d9@kynesim.co.uk>
 <mailman.24.1489428626.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <84f6caea-1d09-466c-abf7-f5f066cfb3fb@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 11:10:36 AM UTC-7, Rhodri James wrote:
> On 13/03/17 17:40, padawanwebdev at gmail.com wrote:
> > Hello, I'm having a problem with a try except inside a while loop. The problem I see occuring has to do with an excel file the script tries to write to while the excel file is open. The exception captures and gives an error:
> >
> > OError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:'C:\\Users\\Administrator\\Desktop\\Version5.0\\DeviceTrackerReport45.xlsx'
> >
> > This is expected and is not the problem. However, the issue occurs when I close the excel file. As an example, if I run the script and the excel file is open thru 3 iterations, meaning that the script can't write to the excel file until the excel file is closed, then after the excel file is closed the script prints to the excel file 3 times. I don't need it to write to the excel file 3 times. I only need it to write just once. If the excel file is closed before I run the script than it works like its suppose too.
> > I hope I made my case clear. I look forward to some feedback. Any would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> When you say "...the excel file is open thru 3 iterations", what do you 
> mean?  Three iterations of what?  You haven't shown us a loop, so it's 
> not obvious.
> 
> How do you know it prints (writes?) to the excel file three times? 
> Again, there's nothing in the code snippet that would tell you.
> 
> > here is part of the code:
> >
> >         connectionResults = None
> >         returnResults = InternetQualityTest.connectionTest(connectionResults)
> >         if returnResults == True:
> >             try:
> >                 execfile('assetMapping.py')
> >                 time.sleep(4)
> >                 sys.exit()
> >             except Exception as e:
> >                 print "error",e
> >                 time.sleep(20)
> 
> This looks plausible, though honestly the execfile makes me feel icky 
> for unrelated reasons.  I repeat, though; this isn't a loop, and my 
> crystal ball isn't up to telling me how it gets invoked.
> 
> > FYI: The assetMapping.py runs another module from inside, and it's this module running from assetMapping that writes to the excel file.
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd

I apologize if I short-changed you with the code. It's a bigger piece of code and I thought maybe with my explanation and the piece I showed it would be enough. I was wrong. Here is the rest. I apologize in advance if there are any more confusions. 

I do appreciate your help! Thanks in advance :-)


THIS IS: Main.py

import InternetQualityTest
import assetMapping
import time
import sys



if __name__ == '__main__':
    
    while True:
        
        connectionResults = None
        returnResults = InternetQualityTest.connectionTest(connectionResults)
        if returnResults == True:
            try:
                execfile('assetMapping.py')
                time.sleep(4)
                sys.exit()
            except Exception as e:
                print "error",e
                time.sleep(20)

THIS IS: constants.py

import urllib
import socket
from openpyxl.reader.excel import load_workbook




hostname = socket.gethostname()
getip = urllib.urlopen('https://api.ipify.org').read()

errorReportWB = load_workbook(r'C:\Users\Administrator\Desktop\Version5.0\DeviceTrackerReport45.xlsx')
masterListWB = load_workbook(r'C:\Users\Administrator\Desktop\Version5.0\masterListWB.xlsx')
yardWB = load_workbook(r'C:\Users\Administrator\Desktop\Version5.0\yardWB.xlsx')

errorReportSheet = errorReportWB.get_sheet_names()
masterListSheet = masterListWB.get_sheet_names()
yardSheet = yardWB.get_sheet_names()


import constants
import DataRedundancyCheck
import assetMappingFunctions


ipCoordinate = []
deviceCoordinate = [] 

#xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx# 
#************************************************************************************************************************************#


THIS IS: assetMapping.py


## Initital Test: checks if IP is in master list
initialCheck = assetMappingFunctions.functions()                                                          #Creat object Initial_Test of Asset_Mapping_Module Class from the Asset_Mapping.py file
masterInventorySheet = initialCheck.yard(constants.masterListSheet,0,constants.masterListWB)        #Get Master list sheet name 
ipMasterInventoryCount = initialCheck.inventoryCount(masterInventorySheet,"B")                      #Get number count of IP addresses in the Master list 
ipMasterInventory = initialCheck.ipDeviceList(ipMasterInventoryCount,"B",masterInventorySheet)      #Get the list of IPs in the Masterlist 
ipMasterValidation = initialCheck.ipValidationCheck(ipMasterInventory,masterInventorySheet)         #Test if external IP address is in the Master List

if ipMasterValidation==False:
    print "IP INVALID"
    
elif ipMasterValidation == True:                                                #if ipMasterValidation from initial test returns something than program continues
##        print "IP VALIDATED"
    matchTrack = assetMappingFunctions.functions()                                    #Create object Track_Map for the class Asset_Mapping_Module found in the Asset_Mapping.py file

    for x in range(0,len(constants.yardSheet)):                                 #loop range dependent on number of sheets in yardWB.xlsx
        yardNameUnfil = constants.yardSheet[x]                                  #Get from yardWB.xlsx list of all sheet names... 
                                                                                #....Formated to print to excel spreadsheet
##            print "unfiltered yard",yardNameUnfil
        yardName = matchTrack.yard(constants.yardSheet,x,constants.yardWB)      #Get from yardWB.xlsx list of all sheet names...
                                                                                #....Unformated and used  for testing.
##            print yardName,yardNameUnfil

        ipListCount = matchTrack.inventoryCount(yardName,"B")                   #Get the number of IP addresses in each yards list                
        deviceListCount = matchTrack.inventoryCount(yardName,"C")               #Get the number Devices in each yards list
##        print ipListCount
##            print deviceListCount
##            print "\n"

#xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx# 
#************************************************************************************************************************************#    

        ipList = matchTrack.ipDeviceList(ipListCount,"B",yardName)              #Get list of IP Addresses from each yard
        deviceList = matchTrack.ipDeviceList(deviceListCount,"C",yardName)      #Get list of Devices from each yard
##            print "IP list ",ipList
##            print "Device list ",deviceList
##            print "\n"
     
#xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx# 
#************************************************************************************************************************************#    
  
        ipValidation = matchTrack.ipValidationCheck(ipList,yardName)                    #IP COORDINATE: Track IP address to yard                                   
        deviceValidation = matchTrack.deviceValidationCheck(deviceList,yardName)        #DEVICE COORDINATE: Track Device hostname to yard    
##            print "Test IP match to yard: ", ipValidation,yardName
##            print "Test Device match to yard: ",deviceValidation, yardName
##            print "\n"

#### When ipValidation makes a match of IP to a yard, the yard gets appended into a list called ipCoordinate            
        if ipValidation == True:                                                        #Test condition to isolate and append yard into a list
            ipConfirmed = ipValidation
            ipCoordinate.append(yardNameUnfil)
##                print "Filter list of yards that contains the external IP address: ",ipCoordinate,ipValidation

#### When deviceValidation makes a match of Device to a yard, the yard gets appended into a list called deviceCoordinate
        if deviceValidation == True:                                                    #Test condition to isolate and append yard into a list
            deviceConfirmed = deviceValidation
            deviceCoordinate.append(yardNameUnfil)
##                print "Filter list of yards that contains the Device Host Name: ",deviceCoordinate,deviceConfirmed
##                print "02. device validation =",constants.device_yard_coordinate             


#xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx# 
#************************************************************************************************************************************#
            
##    print "testing",deviceConfirmed,deviceCoordinate
##    if ipConfirmed and deviceConfirmed == True:
##        print None 
##        print "03. Device validation =",deviceConfirmed,"; IP traced to yard: ",deviceCoordinate

if ipCoordinate == deviceCoordinate:                                                                                    #Test if yards ipCoordinate = deviceCoordinate 
      print None 
else:
    errorReport = matchTrack.yard(constants.errorReportSheet,0,constants.errorReportWB)
    inventoryCount = matchTrack.inventoryCount(errorReport,"B")

    temp = DataRedundancyCheck.redundancy()
    ipRedundancy = (", ".join(ipCoordinate))
    deviceRedundancy = (", ".join(deviceCoordinate))
    redundancyTest = temp.dataRedundancyCheck(ipRedundancy,deviceRedundancy)
    print "Test =",redundancyTest
    if redundancyTest == True:
        print ""
##        print str(((", ".join(ipCoordinate)),(", ".join(deviceCoordinate)),errorReport,inventoryCount))
        matchTrack.entryReport((", ".join(ipCoordinate)),(", ".join(deviceCoordinate)),errorReport,inventoryCount)      #


THIS IS: DataRedundancyCheck.py


import datetime
import constants                                 
import assetMappingFunctions
from openpyxl import load_workbook



##errorReportWB = load_workbook(r'C:\Users\Administrator\Desktop\Version5.0\DeviceTrackerReport.xlsx', data_only=True)
temp = assetMappingFunctions.functions()


errorReportWB = constants.errorReportWB
cellData = errorReportWB["IP_TrackMap_Report"]
wb = temp.yard(constants.errorReportSheet,0,constants.errorReportWB)
count = temp.inventoryCount(wb,"B")

class redundancy():
    def dataRedundancyCheck(self,ipAssigned,deviceFound):
        celllist=[]
        cmpValue = 0
       
        for i in range (0,4):
            cellAdd = chr(ord("C")+i)
            cell = cellAdd + str((count+1))
            celllist.append(str(cellData[cell].value))
            data =[constants.getip,ipAssigned,deviceFound,'{:%m-%d-%Y}'.format(datetime.date.today())]
            
##            print celllist[i],"<=>",data[i]

        cmpValue = cmp (celllist,data)

        if cmpValue == 0:
            print ""
        else:
            print cmpValue
            return True


THIS IS: assetMappingFunctions.py


import constants
import datetime

class functions():


    def yard(self,sheet,sheetNumber,workBook):

##        sheetNumber = len(sheet)-1
          return workBook[sheet[sheetNumber]]


    def inventoryCount(self,yard,column):
        count = 0
        while True:
            count += 1
            append = column + str(count)
            yard[append].value       
            if yard[append].value  == None:
                break 
        return count-2

               
    def ipDeviceList(self, count, column, yard):
        x=2
        list=[]
        #temp = ""
        for a in range (0,count):
            append1 = column + str(x)
            x +=1
            list.append(str(yard[append1].value))
##            print str(yard[append1].value)
##            #temp= ", ".join(list1)
           
        return list

               
    def ipValidationCheck(self, inventory_list,yard):

        temp = constants.getip          

        if temp in inventory_list:
##            print temp
            return True
        else:
            return False

        
    def deviceValidationCheck(self, inventory_list,yard):
   
        temp = constants.hostname
          
        if temp in inventory_list:            
            return True
        else:
            return False


    def ipReport(self, yard):
        
        if get_field == 1:
            set_field = constants.wb.get_sheet_by_name('IP_Report')
        return set_field

                      
    def entryReport(self,ipCoordinate,deviceCoordinate,yard,row_count):
        
        dataInput = [str(constants.hostname),str(constants.getip),str(ipCoordinate),str(deviceCoordinate),'{:%m-%d-%Y}'.format(datetime.date.today()),'{:%H:%M:%S}'.format(datetime.datetime.now())]

        for i in range(0,6):
            
            temp= chr(ord("B")+i)
##            print "temp",temp
            column = temp + str((row_count+2))
##            print "column",column,dataInput[i]
            yard[column]=dataInput[i]
##            print dataInput[i]
            
        constants.errorReportWB.save(r'C:\Users\Administrator\Desktop\Version5.0\DeviceTrackerReport45.xlsx')
        print "Report Updated"




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Mar 13 18:20:18 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 18:20:18 -0400
Subject: [External] Unsubscribe to Python email list
In-Reply-To: <93285AC0FA20BA47BE43FA54FCA5B321EDDBD84A@ASHBDAG2M3.resource.ds.bah.com>
References: <6DD74957-1E1E-4EB3-A1C0-EF7F26392411@hotmail.com>
 <93285AC0FA20BA47BE43FA54FCA5B321EDDBD84A@ASHBDAG2M3.resource.ds.bah.com>
Message-ID: <e1d61b23-c310-0353-6aa2-0d87d8f70154@udel.edu>

On 3/13/2017 9:24 AM, Falter, Donald [USA] wrote:
> Yeah, I think I'm going to bail on this list too.  Thanks

Then follow MRAB's explaination of how.
----
You'll have to do it yourself. Read this:
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
The relevant bit is in the section titled "Python-list Subscribers".

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From m at funkyhat.org  Mon Mar 13 18:36:06 2017
From: m at funkyhat.org (Matt Wheeler)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 22:36:06 +0000
Subject: Substitute a mock object for the metaclass of a class
In-Reply-To: <857f3ugfr1.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <857f3ugfr1.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAG93HwFGBWecA8=XiPtGKHSTDzQak47VxMR++W+4TUajdqNUTw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 at 00:52 Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:

> How can I override the metaclass of a Python class, with a
> `unittest.mock.MagicMock` instance instead?
>

At first I misunderstood what you were looking for, and was about to reply
to the effect of "you're too late, the metaclass has already been called so
this doesn't make sense", but I see that you're actually asking for
something that's a bit interesting...


> I have a function whose job involves working with the metaclass of an
> argument::
>
>     # lorem.py
>
>     class Foo(object):
>         pass
>
>     def quux(existing_class):
>         ?
>         metaclass = type(existing_class)
>         new_class = metaclass(?)
>
> The unit tests for this function will need to assert that the calls to
> the metaclass go as expected, *without* actually calling a real class
> object.
>
> To write a unit test for this function, I want to temporarily override
> the metaclass of some classes in the system with a mock object instead.
> This will allow, for example, making assertions about how the metaclass
> was called, and ensuring no unwanted side effects.
>

The simple, lazy option would be to patch `type` to return your mocked
metaclass. i.e.

```
from unittest.mock import patch

import lorem


@patch('lorem.type')
def test_things(mocktype):
    lorem.quux(metameta.Foo())

    lorem.return_value.assert_called_with()
```

Don't try and patch `type` from `builtins`. I did, and things go bad
because, unsurprisingly, `mock` calls `type` quite a lot internally :).


>     # test_lorem.py
>
>     import unittest
>     import unittest.mock
>
>     import lorem
>
>     class stub_metaclass(type):
>         def __new__(metaclass, name, bases, namespace):
>             return super().__new__(metaclass, name, bases, namespace)
>
>     class quux_TestCase(unittest.TestCase):
>
>         @unittest.mock.patch.object(
>                     lorem.Foo, '__class__', side_effect=stub_metaclass)
>         def test_calls_expected_metaclass_with_class_name(
>                 self,
>                 mock_foo_metaclass,
>                 ):
>             lorem.quux(lorem.Foo)
>             mock_foo_metaclass.assert_called_with(
>                     'Foo', unittest.mock.ANY, unittest.mock.ANY)
>

When I try to add the stub_metaclass side_effect in to my code I get
`TypeError: __new__() missing 2 required positional arguments: 'bases' and
'namespace'` ... which seems quite reasonable, and I expect you're in a
better position to figure out how to handle that (the side effect may
actually need to be a wrapper around stub_metaclass which injects something
suitable).

<rest of original snipped>
-- 

--
Matt Wheeler
http://funkyh.at


From m at funkyhat.org  Mon Mar 13 19:01:44 2017
From: m at funkyhat.org (Matt Wheeler)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 23:01:44 +0000
Subject: Substitute a mock object for the metaclass of a class
In-Reply-To: <CAG93HwFGBWecA8=XiPtGKHSTDzQak47VxMR++W+4TUajdqNUTw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <857f3ugfr1.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAG93HwFGBWecA8=XiPtGKHSTDzQak47VxMR++W+4TUajdqNUTw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG93HwEMt9Y7HgpGzRDrMGXAOV0gBirow2oDN6q0JxFbntOP7A@mail.gmail.com>

A small correction...

On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 at 22:36 Matt Wheeler <m at funkyhat.org> wrote:

> ```
> from unittest.mock import patch
>
> import lorem
>
>
> @patch('lorem.type')
> def test_things(mocktype):
>     lorem.quux(metameta.Foo())
>
>     lorem.return_value.assert_called_with()
>
this line should of course read `mocktype.return_value.assert_called_with()`

> ```
>
-- 

--
Matt Wheeler
http://funkyh.at


From hpj at urpla.net  Mon Mar 13 19:33:34 2017
From: hpj at urpla.net (Hans-Peter Jansen)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 00:33:34 +0100
Subject: keyrings.cryptfile released on github
In-Reply-To: <87tw70rf7m.fsf@nightsong.com>
References: <2356566.kSNyJECJKv@xrated>
 <mailman.232.1489143288.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <87tw70rf7m.fsf@nightsong.com>
Message-ID: <13668788.UAFrYTDxEq@xrated>

On Freitag, 10. M?rz 2017 13:31:41 Paul Rubin wrote:
> Hans-Peter Jansen <hpj at urpla.net> writes:
> > [1] http://web.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/ocb/license.htm
> 
> Oh that's interesting, he's expanded the free licenses.  Still though,
> while OCB is very clever and it was important as the first satisfactory
> AEAD mode, I don't think it's that important these days.  GCM is
> standardized, does similar things, and while it's potentially slower,
> some CPUs even have hardware support for it now.  If you library doesn't
> support GCM (I haven't checked yet) then it probably should.

It does support GCM now, it's even the new default(!).

I've added support for all AEAD modes, that PyCryptodome supports, and 
supplied a small encryption mode conversion tool as well.

I plan to add authenticated service and username support via associated data 
as well (that protects against tampering with these values). It might be a 
good idea to record and secure the number of entries as well.

Cheers,
Pete




From hpj at urpla.net  Mon Mar 13 20:41:59 2017
From: hpj at urpla.net (Hans-Peter Jansen)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 01:41:59 +0100
Subject: keyrings.cryptfile released on github
In-Reply-To: <13668788.UAFrYTDxEq@xrated>
References: <2356566.kSNyJECJKv@xrated> <87tw70rf7m.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <13668788.UAFrYTDxEq@xrated>
Message-ID: <10347545.VtY6WNlyOl@xrated>

On Dienstag, 14. M?rz 2017 00:33:34 Hans-Peter Jansen wrote:
> 
> I plan to add authenticated service and username support via associated data
> as well (that protects against tampering with these values). 

Done.
 
> Cheers,
> Pete



From zljubisic at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 03:34:19 2017
From: zljubisic at gmail.com (zljubisic at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 00:34:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Extraction of model and date created tag from own picture/video
 recordings
Message-ID: <7fbbfdff-d7ab-4825-9721-2024fd4369bf@googlegroups.com>

I am looking for the way to extract two simple information from pictures/videos that I have recorded with different devices that I own: model (of the device that has recorded) and recordings (local) creation time.

So far, I tried different approaches. 

I tried to use pymediainfo (https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pymediainfo/), which is kind of good for iPhone videos, but doesn't recognize model of the android videos and it is bed for pictures, but at the moment, I don't have anything better.

I also tried ExifRead (https://pypi.python.org/pypi/ExifRead), that is good for some pictures, but not for all.

For such a simple requirement (model and creation date) is there a library that can:
1.	Cover both pictures and videos
2.	Work with android and iPhone

Does someone have an experience with such task in order to suggest a library to me?


From zljubisic at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 03:43:07 2017
From: zljubisic at gmail.com (zljubisic at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 00:43:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Extraction of model and date created tag from own picture/video
 recordings
Message-ID: <473ec4d0-9eb1-4359-afb1-367546e5a198@googlegroups.com>

I am looking for the way to extract two simple information from pictures/videos that I have recorded with different devices that I own: model (of the device that has recorded) and recordings (local) creation time.

So far, I tried different approaches. 

I tried to use pymediainfo (https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pymediainfo/), which is kind of good for iPhone videos, but doesn't recognize model of the android videos and it is bed for pictures, but at the moment, I don't have anything better.

I also tried ExifRead (https://pypi.python.org/pypi/ExifRead), that is good for some pictures, but not for all.

For such a simple requirement (model and creation date) is there a library that can:
1.	Cover both pictures and videos
2.	Work with android and iPhone

Does someone have an experience with such task in order to suggest a library to me?


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Tue Mar 14 07:32:49 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 22:32:49 +1100
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CACL+1auv0oUGWcLgHJspZrRaPBUAhRrAUYuWt+KXcx-ZNB7hgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1489398514.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58c7d4e3$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 08:47 pm, eryk sun wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 12, 2017 at 5:48 PM, Steve D'Aprano
> <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>
>> Does os.remove work like this under Windows too?
> 
> os.remove calls DeleteFile on Windows. 
[...]

Thanks for the unexpectedly detailed explanation! A few follow-up questions:


> One hurdle to getting delete access is the sharing mode. If there are
> existing File objects that reference the file, they all have to share
> delete access. Otherwise the open fails with a sharing violation. This
> is often the show stopper because the C runtime (and thus CPython,
> usually) opens files with read and write sharing but not delete
> sharing.

This is the famous "can't delete a file which is open under Windows"
problem, am I right?

I take it that you *can* delete open files, but only if the process that
opens them takes special care to use "delete sharing". Is that correct?

I don't have a machine to test this on, but I'd like to deal with this
situation in my (cross-platform) code. If I have one Python script do this:


with open("My Documents/foo") as f:
    time.sleep(100000)


and while it is sleeping another script does this:

os.remove("My Documents/foo")


what exception will I get? Is that unique to this situation, or is a generic
exception that could mean anything?

My aim is to do:

try:
    os.remove(thefile)
except SomeError:
    # Could be a virus checker or other transient process.
    time.sleep(0.2)
    os.remove(thefile)  # try again


Does that seem reasonable to you, as a Windows user?


[...]
> OK, that covers the basics.

The basics, he says :-)


> In user mode, a kernel object such as a File instance is referenced as
> a handle. 

Out of curiosity, I only know the term "handle" from classic Macintosh
(pre-OS X) where a handle was a managed pointer to a pointer to a chunk of
memory. Being managed, the OS could move the memory around without the
handles ending up pointing to garbage. Is that the same meaning in Windows
land?


[...]
> When the delete disposition is set, no new File references can be
> instantiated (i.e. any level of access is denied, even just to read
> the file attributes), but the file isn't immediately unlinked. It's
> still listed in the parent directory. Any existing File reference that
> has delete access can unset the delete disposition.
> 
> When all handle and pointer references to a File object are closed,
> the file system decrements the reference count on the FCB. When the
> FCB reference count drops to 0, if the delete disposition is currently
> set, then finally the file is unlinked from the parent directory.

So technically file deletions aren't atomic in Windows? In principle, I
could say:

delete file X

which then returns immediately, and if I try to open(X) it will fail. But I
can still see it if I do a dir() on the parent directory?

Eventually the last reference to X will go away, and then it is unlinked.
What happens if I pull the plug in the meantime? Will the file magically
come back on rebooting?


[...]
> Finally, I'm sure most people are familiar with the read-only file
> attribute. If this attribute is set you can still open a file with
> delete access to rename it, but setting the delete disposition will
> fail with access denied.

That was actually the situation I was thinking about when I started on this
question. From Python code, I was considering writing something like this:


def delete_readonly(thefile):
    try:
        os.remove(thefile)
    except ReadOnlyFileError:  # what is this really?
        try:
            # change the user permissions to unset Read-Only
            old_perms = ... ?
            set_perms(...)
        except OSError:
            pass
        else:
            # We changed Read-Only. Try deleting again. If it fails, 
            # revert the flags and fail.
            try:
                os.remove(thefile)
            except OSError:
                # Restore permissions
                ...
            else:
                # Success on the second attempt!
                return
        raise



That's intended to emulate the behaviour on Unix where deleting a file that
you own will succeed even if you don't have write access to the file.

(The bash rm command will ask you before deleting, but Python's os.remove
just removes it.)


Does this seem reasonable? Or overly complicated for not enough benefit?





-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From rhodri at kynesim.co.uk  Tue Mar 14 07:42:14 2017
From: rhodri at kynesim.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 11:42:14 +0000
Subject: Issues with in try except and excel spreadsheet
In-Reply-To: <84f6caea-1d09-466c-abf7-f5f066cfb3fb@googlegroups.com>
References: <b9512655-7ddd-4f5c-b22d-31015f1ddb9c@googlegroups.com>
 <b1e75f37-4c09-b161-12e2-4836b08f15d9@kynesim.co.uk>
 <mailman.24.1489428626.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <84f6caea-1d09-466c-abf7-f5f066cfb3fb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ee82fc8d-e6b1-1018-86cf-00c71d2e679a@kynesim.co.uk>

On 13/03/17 20:37, padawanwebdev at gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 11:10:36 AM UTC-7, Rhodri James wrote:
>> On 13/03/17 17:40, padawanwebdev at gmail.com wrote:
>>> Hello, I'm having a problem with a try except inside a while loop. The problem I see occuring has to do with an excel file the script tries to write to while the excel file is open. The exception captures and gives an error:
>>>
>>> OError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:'C:\\Users\\Administrator\\Desktop\\Version5.0\\DeviceTrackerReport45.xlsx'
>>>
>>> This is expected and is not the problem. However, the issue occurs when I close the excel file. As an example, if I run the script and the excel file is open thru 3 iterations, meaning that the script can't write to the excel file until the excel file is closed, then after the excel file is closed the script prints to the excel file 3 times. I don't need it to write to the excel file 3 times. I only need it to write just once. If the excel file is closed before I run the script than it works like its suppose too.
>>> I hope I made my case clear. I look forward to some feedback. Any would be greatly appreciated!
>>
>> When you say "...the excel file is open thru 3 iterations", what do you
>> mean?  Three iterations of what?  You haven't shown us a loop, so it's
>> not obvious.
>>
>> How do you know it prints (writes?) to the excel file three times?
>> Again, there's nothing in the code snippet that would tell you.
>>
>>> here is part of the code:
>>>
>>>         connectionResults = None
>>>         returnResults = InternetQualityTest.connectionTest(connectionResults)
>>>         if returnResults == True:
>>>             try:
>>>                 execfile('assetMapping.py')
>>>                 time.sleep(4)
>>>                 sys.exit()
>>>             except Exception as e:
>>>                 print "error",e
>>>                 time.sleep(20)
>>
>> This looks plausible, though honestly the execfile makes me feel icky
>> for unrelated reasons.  I repeat, though; this isn't a loop, and my
>> crystal ball isn't up to telling me how it gets invoked.
>>
>>> FYI: The assetMapping.py runs another module from inside, and it's this module running from assetMapping that writes to the excel file.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd
>
> I apologize if I short-changed you with the code. It's a bigger piece of code and I thought maybe with my explanation and the piece I showed it would be enough. I was wrong. Here is the rest. I apologize in advance if there are any more confusions.
>
> I do appreciate your help! Thanks in advance :-)
>
>
> THIS IS: Main.py
>
> import InternetQualityTest
> import assetMapping
> import time
> import sys
>
>
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>
>     while True:
>
>         connectionResults = None
>         returnResults = InternetQualityTest.connectionTest(connectionResults)
>         if returnResults == True:
>             try:
>                 execfile('assetMapping.py')
>                 time.sleep(4)
>                 sys.exit()
>             except Exception as e:
>                 print "error",e
>                 time.sleep(20)

[Large amount of code with no suspicious-looking loops snipped]

Thanks for the extra code.  It's hard to get the balance right between 
giving people enough information to help and giving us so much 
information we can't see the wood for the trees.

Anyway, I'll go back to my questions.  What output do you have that 
convinces you that assetMapping.py is invoked three (or however many) 
times while the excel file is open?  What output do you have that 
convinces you that it then writes three (or however many) times?  As far 
as I can tell, the loop above can only repeat the call to execfile() if 
it catches an exception: what were those exceptions?

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 09:07:32 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 00:07:32 +1100
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
In-Reply-To: <58c7d4e3$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CACL+1auv0oUGWcLgHJspZrRaPBUAhRrAUYuWt+KXcx-ZNB7hgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1489398514.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <58c7d4e3$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp=4AmebVxJm6vwSQkxnfN32nt9Cf1UJnbdLV-T5QagEA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 10:32 PM, Steve D'Aprano
<steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 08:47 pm, eryk sun wrote:
>> One hurdle to getting delete access is the sharing mode. If there are
>> existing File objects that reference the file, they all have to share
>> delete access. Otherwise the open fails with a sharing violation. This
>> is often the show stopper because the C runtime (and thus CPython,
>> usually) opens files with read and write sharing but not delete
>> sharing.
>
> This is the famous "can't delete a file which is open under Windows"
> problem, am I right?
>
> I take it that you *can* delete open files, but only if the process that
> opens them takes special care to use "delete sharing". Is that correct?

Yes, but you can't always control the process that opens them. For
example, it's annoyingly difficult to update a running executable.

>> In user mode, a kernel object such as a File instance is referenced as
>> a handle.
>
> Out of curiosity, I only know the term "handle" from classic Macintosh
> (pre-OS X) where a handle was a managed pointer to a pointer to a chunk of
> memory. Being managed, the OS could move the memory around without the
> handles ending up pointing to garbage. Is that the same meaning in Windows
> land?

The old Mac meaning was very concrete and specific: it's a pointer to
a pointer. Since all *you* ever see is the first pointer, the OS is
free to (atomically) move the destination.

More generally, a handle is just an opaque cookie that represents a
thing. If you do cross-platform socket programming, you'll find that
on Unix, creating a socket returns a "file descriptor"; but on
Windows, it returns a "socket handle". Aside from the fact that socket
handles can only be used with socket functions (making them harder to
pass to other processes etc), the two concepts work broadly the same
way: you have a small integer value that represents a large resource.

>> When the delete disposition is set, no new File references can be
>> instantiated (i.e. any level of access is denied, even just to read
>> the file attributes), but the file isn't immediately unlinked. It's
>> still listed in the parent directory. Any existing File reference that
>> has delete access can unset the delete disposition.
>>
>> When all handle and pointer references to a File object are closed,
>> the file system decrements the reference count on the FCB. When the
>> FCB reference count drops to 0, if the delete disposition is currently
>> set, then finally the file is unlinked from the parent directory.
>
> So technically file deletions aren't atomic in Windows? In principle, I
> could say:
>
> delete file X
>
> which then returns immediately, and if I try to open(X) it will fail. But I
> can still see it if I do a dir() on the parent directory?
>
> Eventually the last reference to X will go away, and then it is unlinked.
> What happens if I pull the plug in the meantime? Will the file magically
> come back on rebooting?

Without actually testing it, my answers (based on experience of using
Windows) would be that the file doesn't disappear at all until it's
actually deleted. The "no new File refs can be instantiated" would
mean that it kicks back an error, not that it looks like the file
doesn't exist. If you pull the plug, it won't "magically come back" -
it'll have never gone.

> That's intended to emulate the behaviour on Unix where deleting a file that
> you own will succeed even if you don't have write access to the file.
>
> (The bash rm command will ask you before deleting, but Python's os.remove
> just removes it.)

(And the rm command won't ask if you say "-f".)

> Does this seem reasonable? Or overly complicated for not enough benefit?

I'm terrified to think what the interactions would be between this and
the Ubuntu subsystem in Win 10. What're the semantics of unlinkat()?
What about the common practice of creating a file and then unlinking
it so it doesn't show up in the directory? (And is that different on a
file system that supports hard links?) Or are heaps of POSIX features
simply not available?

ChrisA


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Tue Mar 14 09:30:36 2017
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 13:30:36 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CACL+1auv0oUGWcLgHJspZrRaPBUAhRrAUYuWt+KXcx-ZNB7hgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1489398514.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <58c7d4e3$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmp=4AmebVxJm6vwSQkxnfN32nt9Cf1UJnbdLV-T5QagEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.36.1489496855.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnocfs97.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>

On 2017-03-14, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> (The bash rm command will ask you before deleting, but Python's os.remove
>> just removes it.)
>
> (And the rm command won't ask if you say "-f".)

rm does not ask before deleting. However some Linux distributions
take it upon themselves to put "alias rm='rm -i'" in /etc/profile.


From a24061 at ducksburg.com  Tue Mar 14 09:50:12 2017
From: a24061 at ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 13:50:12 +0000
Subject: managing the RDFLib NamespaceManager
Message-ID: <k19lpdx774.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>

I'm using RDFLib 4.2.2 (installed with pip3) in Python 3.5.2, and the
automatic behaviour of the NamespaceManager is giving me conniptions,
because the automatically generated namespaces go too far to the right
in the URIs and make the right-hand parts of the QNames meaningless.

For example, I have this code:

nsMgr     = NamespaceManager(rdflib.Graph())
nsMgr.bind('dbpedia', Namespace('http://dbpedia.org/resource/'))
# plus some others


but in the serialized RDF I get these (and some other ns-numbered
ones):

@prefix dbpedia: <http://dbpedia.org/resource/> .
@prefix ns3: <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Category%3> .
@prefix ns5: <http://dbpedia.org/resource/2> .

and obviously the QName outputs are wrong.  Is there any way to make
an RDFLib NamespaceManager *not* generate any namespaces
automatically?

Thanks,
Adam


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 09:56:19 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 00:56:19 +1100
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
In-Reply-To: <slrnocfs97.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CACL+1auv0oUGWcLgHJspZrRaPBUAhRrAUYuWt+KXcx-ZNB7hgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1489398514.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <58c7d4e3$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmp=4AmebVxJm6vwSQkxnfN32nt9Cf1UJnbdLV-T5QagEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.36.1489496855.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnocfs97.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrim9TJHfOLgynUJATx_HkVXXQ_D8YJPkX8Y32qHCzzFw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 12:30 AM, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu> wrote:
> On 2017-03-14, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> (The bash rm command will ask you before deleting, but Python's os.remove
>>> just removes it.)
>>
>> (And the rm command won't ask if you say "-f".)
>
> rm does not ask before deleting. However some Linux distributions
> take it upon themselves to put "alias rm='rm -i'" in /etc/profile.

I have no such alias, but it still prompts.

'man rm':

       If the -I or --interactive=once option is given,  and  there  are  more
       than  three  files  or  the  -r,  -R, or --recursive are given, then rm
       prompts the user for whether to proceed with the entire operation.   If
       the response is not affirmative, the entire command is aborted.

       Otherwise,  if  a file is unwritable, standard input is a terminal, and
       the -f or --force  option  is  not  given,  or  the  -i  or  --interac?
       tive=always  option is given, rm prompts the user for whether to remove
       the file.  If the response is not affirmative, the file is skipped.

This is the GNU coreutils rm command. Obviously behaviour may be
different with non-GNU rm's.

ChrisA


From frank at chagford.com  Tue Mar 14 10:22:12 2017
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:22:12 +0200
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrim9TJHfOLgynUJATx_HkVXXQ_D8YJPkX8Y32qHCzzFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CACL+1auv0oUGWcLgHJspZrRaPBUAhRrAUYuWt+KXcx-ZNB7hgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1489398514.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <58c7d4e3$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmp=4AmebVxJm6vwSQkxnfN32nt9Cf1UJnbdLV-T5QagEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.36.1489496855.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnocfs97.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <CAPTjJmrim9TJHfOLgynUJATx_HkVXXQ_D8YJPkX8Y32qHCzzFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oa8uaf$k9e$1@blaine.gmane.org>

"Chris Angelico"  wrote in message 
news:CAPTjJmrim9TJHfOLgynUJATx_HkVXXQ_D8YJPkX8Y32qHCzzFw at mail.gmail.com...

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 12:30 AM, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu> 
wrote:
>>>
>>> (And the rm command won't ask if you say "-f".)
>>
>> rm does not ask before deleting. However some Linux distributions
>> take it upon themselves to put "alias rm='rm -i'" in /etc/profile.
>
> I have no such alias, but it still prompts.
>

On Fedora 22 (and for many previous versions) I have noticed that, if I log 
in as 'root', it does prompt, but if I log in as an ordinary user, it does 
not.

If I type 'alias' at the console, it lists current aliases. 'root' shows 
exactly what Jon quoted above. 'frank' shows no alias for 'rm'.

I had a quick look to see what was setting it, but there is nothing in 
/etc/profile or in /etc/bashrc. I don't know where else to check.

Frank Millman




From padawanwebdev at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 10:26:00 2017
From: padawanwebdev at gmail.com (padawanwebdev at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 07:26:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Issues with in try except and excel spreadsheet
In-Reply-To: <mailman.35.1489491749.2614.python-list@python.org>
References: <b9512655-7ddd-4f5c-b22d-31015f1ddb9c@googlegroups.com>
 <b1e75f37-4c09-b161-12e2-4836b08f15d9@kynesim.co.uk>
 <mailman.24.1489428626.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <84f6caea-1d09-466c-abf7-f5f066cfb3fb@googlegroups.com>
 <ee82fc8d-e6b1-1018-86cf-00c71d2e679a@kynesim.co.uk>
 <mailman.35.1489491749.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9df59029-9b34-4f6a-b2a6-74093186c13c@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 4:42:39 AM UTC-7, Rhodri James wrote:
> On 13/03/17 20:37, padawanwebdev at gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 11:10:36 AM UTC-7, Rhodri James wrote:
> >> On 13/03/17 17:40, padawanwebdev at gmail.com wrote:
> >>> Hello, I'm having a problem with a try except inside a while loop. The problem I see occuring has to do with an excel file the script tries to write to while the excel file is open. The exception captures and gives an error:
> >>>
> >>> OError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:'C:\\Users\\Administrator\\Desktop\\Version5.0\\DeviceTrackerReport45.xlsx'
> >>>
> >>> This is expected and is not the problem. However, the issue occurs when I close the excel file. As an example, if I run the script and the excel file is open thru 3 iterations, meaning that the script can't write to the excel file until the excel file is closed, then after the excel file is closed the script prints to the excel file 3 times. I don't need it to write to the excel file 3 times. I only need it to write just once. If the excel file is closed before I run the script than it works like its suppose too.
> >>> I hope I made my case clear. I look forward to some feedback. Any would be greatly appreciated!
> >>
> >> When you say "...the excel file is open thru 3 iterations", what do you
> >> mean?  Three iterations of what?  You haven't shown us a loop, so it's
> >> not obvious.
> >>
> >> How do you know it prints (writes?) to the excel file three times?
> >> Again, there's nothing in the code snippet that would tell you.
> >>
> >>> here is part of the code:
> >>>
> >>>         connectionResults = None
> >>>         returnResults = InternetQualityTest.connectionTest(connectionResults)
> >>>         if returnResults == True:
> >>>             try:
> >>>                 execfile('assetMapping.py')
> >>>                 time.sleep(4)
> >>>                 sys.exit()
> >>>             except Exception as e:
> >>>                 print "error",e
> >>>                 time.sleep(20)
> >>
> >> This looks plausible, though honestly the execfile makes me feel icky
> >> for unrelated reasons.  I repeat, though; this isn't a loop, and my
> >> crystal ball isn't up to telling me how it gets invoked.
> >>
> >>> FYI: The assetMapping.py runs another module from inside, and it's this module running from assetMapping that writes to the excel file.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd
> >
> > I apologize if I short-changed you with the code. It's a bigger piece of code and I thought maybe with my explanation and the piece I showed it would be enough. I was wrong. Here is the rest. I apologize in advance if there are any more confusions.
> >
> > I do appreciate your help! Thanks in advance :-)
> >
> >
> > THIS IS: Main.py
> >
> > import InternetQualityTest
> > import assetMapping
> > import time
> > import sys
> >
> >
> >
> > if __name__ == '__main__':
> >
> >     while True:
> >
> >         connectionResults = None
> >         returnResults = InternetQualityTest.connectionTest(connectionResults)
> >         if returnResults == True:
> >             try:
> >                 execfile('assetMapping.py')
> >                 time.sleep(4)
> >                 sys.exit()
> >             except Exception as e:
> >                 print "error",e
> >                 time.sleep(20)
> 
> [Large amount of code with no suspicious-looking loops snipped]
> 
> Thanks for the extra code.  It's hard to get the balance right between 
> giving people enough information to help and giving us so much 
> information we can't see the wood for the trees.
> 
> Anyway, I'll go back to my questions.  What output do you have that 
> convinces you that assetMapping.py is invoked three (or however many) 
> times while the excel file is open?  What output do you have that 
> convinces you that it then writes three (or however many) times?  As far 
> as I can tell, the loop above can only repeat the call to execfile() if 
> it catches an exception: what were those exceptions?
> 
> -- 
> Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd

As an example, If I have the excel file open and there is data that needs to be written to the excel file than the exception will catch this error: 

IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'C:\\Users\\Administrator\\Desktop\\Version5.0\\DeviceTrackerReport45.xlsx'

essentially, because the excel file is open during the process of writing to the excel file the "try" will keep attempting to write to the excel until its closed. So, if there were 5 attempts to write the data to the excel file, then after the excel file is closed that data will be written to the excel file n+1  times (6 times). When this happens it shows 6 rows of the newly written data, however, it's the same data. To illustrate this here is the output from the shell line while the excel file is open and when it's closed. Note, When I close it it will say Report Updated. 

Python 2.7.10 (default, May 23 2015, 09:40:32) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
>>> ================================ RESTART ================================
>>> 
-1
Test = True

error [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'C:\\Users\\Administrator\\Desktop\\Version5.0\\DeviceTrackerReport45.xlsx'
-1
Test = True

error [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'C:\\Users\\Administrator\\Desktop\\Version5.0\\DeviceTrackerReport45.xlsx'
-1
Test = True

error [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'C:\\Users\\Administrator\\Desktop\\Version5.0\\DeviceTrackerReport45.xlsx'
-1
Test = True

error [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'C:\\Users\\Administrator\\Desktop\\Version5.0\\DeviceTrackerReport45.xlsx'
-1
Test = True

error [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'C:\\Users\\Administrator\\Desktop\\Version5.0\\DeviceTrackerReport45.xlsx'
-1
Test = True

Report Updated
>>> 


This is what's written to the excel file:

3	NB19097	24.221.51.225	376_SouthYard	373_Reseda	03-14-2017	07:03:46
4	NB19097	24.221.51.225	376_SouthYard	373_Reseda	03-14-2017	07:04:07
5	NB19097	24.221.51.225	376_SouthYard	373_Reseda	03-14-2017	07:04:27
6	NB19097	24.221.51.225	376_SouthYard	373_Reseda	03-14-2017	07:04:47
7	NB19097	24.221.51.225	376_SouthYard	373_Reseda	03-14-2017	07:05:07
8	NB19097	24.221.51.225	376_SouthYard	373_Reseda	03-14-2017	07:05:28

As you can see from the shell line the number of attempts made, and from the excel file the number of rows taken, that there is a correlation between the attempts and what gets written to the excel file. 

Also, if the excel file is closed during the writing process than the execfile() executes once because there is no exception, and the data only gets written once to the excel file. 

because the execfile() is inside the try except it catches this error:

error [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'C:\\Users\\Administrator\\Desktop\\Version5.0\\DeviceTrackerReport45.xlsx'

which is just telling you that the data can't be written to the excel file because its open.

Thanks again Mr. James. I hope with my explanation I may have cleared up any confusion of the problem I'm facing.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 10:26:48 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 01:26:48 +1100
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
In-Reply-To: <oa8uaf$k9e$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CACL+1auv0oUGWcLgHJspZrRaPBUAhRrAUYuWt+KXcx-ZNB7hgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1489398514.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <58c7d4e3$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmp=4AmebVxJm6vwSQkxnfN32nt9Cf1UJnbdLV-T5QagEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.36.1489496855.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnocfs97.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <CAPTjJmrim9TJHfOLgynUJATx_HkVXXQ_D8YJPkX8Y32qHCzzFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <oa8uaf$k9e$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrcom+3mupPiSbtqGVw1RVPhPkrCthRnutn1rWNcV-vwA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 1:22 AM, Frank Millman <frank at chagford.com> wrote:
> "Chris Angelico"  wrote in message
> news:CAPTjJmrim9TJHfOLgynUJATx_HkVXXQ_D8YJPkX8Y32qHCzzFw at mail.gmail.com...
>
> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 12:30 AM, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu>
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (And the rm command won't ask if you say "-f".)
>>>
>>>
>>> rm does not ask before deleting. However some Linux distributions
>>> take it upon themselves to put "alias rm='rm -i'" in /etc/profile.
>>
>>
>> I have no such alias, but it still prompts.
>>
>
> On Fedora 22 (and for many previous versions) I have noticed that, if I log
> in as 'root', it does prompt, but if I log in as an ordinary user, it does
> not.
>
> If I type 'alias' at the console, it lists current aliases. 'root' shows
> exactly what Jon quoted above. 'frank' shows no alias for 'rm'.
>
> I had a quick look to see what was setting it, but there is nothing in
> /etc/profile or in /etc/bashrc. I don't know where else to check.

Since root has the prompt, check /root/.profile and /root/.bashrc.
There may also be other files sourced from either of those, eg
/root/.bash_aliases.

ChrisA


From frank at chagford.com  Tue Mar 14 10:29:02 2017
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:29:02 +0200
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
In-Reply-To: <oa8uaf$k9e$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CACL+1auv0oUGWcLgHJspZrRaPBUAhRrAUYuWt+KXcx-ZNB7hgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1489398514.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <58c7d4e3$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmp=4AmebVxJm6vwSQkxnfN32nt9Cf1UJnbdLV-T5QagEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.36.1489496855.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnocfs97.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <CAPTjJmrim9TJHfOLgynUJATx_HkVXXQ_D8YJPkX8Y32qHCzzFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <oa8uaf$k9e$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <oa8un9$pjv$1@blaine.gmane.org>

"Frank Millman"  wrote in message news:oa8uaf$k9e$1 at blaine.gmane.org...

> On Fedora 22 (and for many previous versions) I have noticed that, if I 
> log
in as 'root', it does prompt, but if I log in as an ordinary user, it does
not.

> If I type 'alias' at the console, it lists current aliases. 'root' shows
exactly what Jon quoted above. 'frank' shows no alias for 'rm'.

> I had a quick look to see what was setting it, but there is nothing in
/etc/profile or in /etc/bashrc. I don't know where else to check.

I should have looked a bit harder. It is in /root/.bashrc -

    alias rm='rm -i'
    alias cp='cp -i'
    alias mv='mv -i'

Frank





From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Tue Mar 14 10:30:16 2017
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:30:16 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CACL+1auv0oUGWcLgHJspZrRaPBUAhRrAUYuWt+KXcx-ZNB7hgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1489398514.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <58c7d4e3$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmp=4AmebVxJm6vwSQkxnfN32nt9Cf1UJnbdLV-T5QagEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.36.1489496855.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnocfs97.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <CAPTjJmrim9TJHfOLgynUJATx_HkVXXQ_D8YJPkX8Y32qHCzzFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.37.1489499787.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnocfvp3.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>

On 2017-03-14, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 12:30 AM, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu> wrote:
>> rm does not ask before deleting. However some Linux distributions
>> take it upon themselves to put "alias rm='rm -i'" in /etc/profile.
>
> I have no such alias, but it still prompts.

I'm think you must be mistaken. What do you see if you type
'alias rm' and 'which rm'? Are you perhaps trying to delete
files to which you do not have write permission?

> 'man rm':
>
>        If the -I or --interactive=once option is given,  and  there  are  more
>        than  three  files  or  the  -r,  -R, or --recursive are given, then rm
>        prompts the user for whether to proceed with the entire operation.   If
>        the response is not affirmative, the entire command is aborted.
>
>        Otherwise,  if  a file is unwritable, standard input is a terminal, and
>        the -f or --force  option  is  not  given,  or  the  -i  or  --interac?
>        tive=always  option is given, rm prompts the user for whether to remove
>        the file.  If the response is not affirmative, the file is skipped.

Yes, this describes the behaviour if you specify -I or -i,
as I mentioned - not if you don't specify either of those options.

> This is the GNU coreutils rm command.

I am talking about the GNU coreutils rm command (and POSIX for that
matter, since the behaviour of GNU rm appears to be POSIX compliant
as far as what we are talking about goes).


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Tue Mar 14 10:32:35 2017
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:32:35 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CACL+1auv0oUGWcLgHJspZrRaPBUAhRrAUYuWt+KXcx-ZNB7hgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1489398514.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <58c7d4e3$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmp=4AmebVxJm6vwSQkxnfN32nt9Cf1UJnbdLV-T5QagEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.36.1489496855.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnocfs97.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <CAPTjJmrim9TJHfOLgynUJATx_HkVXXQ_D8YJPkX8Y32qHCzzFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <oa8uaf$k9e$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.38.1489501355.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnocfvte.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>

On 2017-03-14, Frank Millman <frank at chagford.com> wrote:
> If I type 'alias' at the console, it lists current aliases. 'root' shows 
> exactly what Jon quoted above. 'frank' shows no alias for 'rm'.
>
> I had a quick look to see what was setting it, but there is nothing in 
> /etc/profile or in /etc/bashrc. I don't know where else to check.

Perhaps one or more of:

/root/.profile
/root/.bash_profile
/root/.bashrc
/etc/profile.d/*


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 10:40:16 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 01:40:16 +1100
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
In-Reply-To: <slrnocfvp3.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CACL+1auv0oUGWcLgHJspZrRaPBUAhRrAUYuWt+KXcx-ZNB7hgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1489398514.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <58c7d4e3$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmp=4AmebVxJm6vwSQkxnfN32nt9Cf1UJnbdLV-T5QagEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.36.1489496855.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnocfs97.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <CAPTjJmrim9TJHfOLgynUJATx_HkVXXQ_D8YJPkX8Y32qHCzzFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.37.1489499787.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnocfvp3.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqz_B_D=VvEGx7dmLbp-WkcQikugUNy0wf2ACXKHHHEcA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 1:30 AM, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu> wrote:
> On 2017-03-14, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 12:30 AM, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu> wrote:
>>> rm does not ask before deleting. However some Linux distributions
>>> take it upon themselves to put "alias rm='rm -i'" in /etc/profile.
>>
>> I have no such alias, but it still prompts.
>
> I'm think you must be mistaken. What do you see if you type
> 'alias rm' and 'which rm'? Are you perhaps trying to delete
> files to which you do not have write permission?

This conversation was specifically about files for which one does not
have write permission. So yes. (It's pretty common; .git/objects is
mostly or entirely made up of such files.)

ChrisA


From lele at metapensiero.it  Tue Mar 14 10:57:13 2017
From: lele at metapensiero.it (Lele Gaifax)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 15:57:13 +0100
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CACL+1auv0oUGWcLgHJspZrRaPBUAhRrAUYuWt+KXcx-ZNB7hgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1489398514.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <58c7d4e3$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmp=4AmebVxJm6vwSQkxnfN32nt9Cf1UJnbdLV-T5QagEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.36.1489496855.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnocfs97.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <CAPTjJmrim9TJHfOLgynUJATx_HkVXXQ_D8YJPkX8Y32qHCzzFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.37.1489499787.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnocfvp3.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <871stzewja.fsf@metapensiero.it>

Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu> writes:

>>        Otherwise,  if  a file is unwritable, standard input is a terminal, and
>>        the -f or --force  option  is  not  given,  or  the  -i  or  --interac?
>>        tive=always  option is given, rm prompts the user for whether to remove
>>        the file.  If the response is not affirmative, the file is skipped.
>
> Yes, this describes the behaviour if you specify -I or -i,
> as I mentioned - not if you don't specify either of those options.

English is not my native language, but that's not how I understand that
paragraph: if -i is given, it always ask, regardless the writable bit,
otherwise it does when f is readonly and no -f is given.

I think Chris is right, consider:

$ rm --version
rm (GNU coreutils) 8.26

$ which rm
/bin/rm

$ alias | grep rm | wc -l
0

$ ls -l *file*
-rw-rw-r-- 1 lele lele 0 Mar 14 15:52 myfile
-r-------- 1 lele lele 0 Mar 14 15:52 myfile2
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Mar 14 15:52 othersfile

$ rm myfile

$ rm myfile2
rm: remove write-protected regular empty file 'myfile2'? y

$ rm othersfile
rm: remove write-protected regular empty file 'othersfile'? y

$ ls -l *file*
ls: cannot access '*file*': No such file or directory

my 0.02?
ciao, lele.
-- 
nickname: Lele Gaifax | Quando vivr? di quello che ho pensato ieri
real: Emanuele Gaifas | comincer? ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
lele at metapensiero.it  |                 -- Fortunato Depero, 1929.



From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Tue Mar 14 11:27:37 2017
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 15:27:37 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CACL+1auv0oUGWcLgHJspZrRaPBUAhRrAUYuWt+KXcx-ZNB7hgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1489398514.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <58c7d4e3$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmp=4AmebVxJm6vwSQkxnfN32nt9Cf1UJnbdLV-T5QagEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.36.1489496855.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnocfs97.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <CAPTjJmrim9TJHfOLgynUJATx_HkVXXQ_D8YJPkX8Y32qHCzzFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.37.1489499787.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnocfvp3.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <871stzewja.fsf@metapensiero.it>
 <mailman.42.1489503454.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnocg34k.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>

On 2017-03-14, Lele Gaifax <lele at metapensiero.it> wrote:
> Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu> writes:
>>>    Otherwise,  if  a file is unwritable, standard input is a terminal, and
>>>    the -f or --force  option  is  not  given,  or  the  -i  or  --interac?
>>>    tive=always  option is given, rm prompts the user for whether to remove
>>>    the file.  If the response is not affirmative, the file is skipped.
>>
>> Yes, this describes the behaviour if you specify -I or -i,
>> as I mentioned - not if you don't specify either of those options.
>
> English is not my native language, but that's not how I understand that
> paragraph: if -i is given, it always ask, regardless the writable bit,
> otherwise it does when f is readonly and no -f is given.

You're understanding that paragraph correctly, but are
misunderstanding what I wrote - I didn't disagree with
what you're saying.


From rhodri at kynesim.co.uk  Tue Mar 14 11:59:19 2017
From: rhodri at kynesim.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 15:59:19 +0000
Subject: Issues with in try except and excel spreadsheet
In-Reply-To: <9df59029-9b34-4f6a-b2a6-74093186c13c@googlegroups.com>
References: <b9512655-7ddd-4f5c-b22d-31015f1ddb9c@googlegroups.com>
 <b1e75f37-4c09-b161-12e2-4836b08f15d9@kynesim.co.uk>
 <mailman.24.1489428626.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <84f6caea-1d09-466c-abf7-f5f066cfb3fb@googlegroups.com>
 <ee82fc8d-e6b1-1018-86cf-00c71d2e679a@kynesim.co.uk>
 <mailman.35.1489491749.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <9df59029-9b34-4f6a-b2a6-74093186c13c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b2b539e7-e0b6-a270-3678-7f84ff304ee9@kynesim.co.uk>

On 14/03/17 14:26, padawanwebdev at gmail.com wrote:
> As an example, If I have the excel file open and there is data that needs to be written to the excel file than the exception will catch this error:
>
> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'C:\\Users\\Administrator\\Desktop\\Version5.0\\DeviceTrackerReport45.xlsx'

Ah yes, you did say that, sorry I missed it.

> essentially, because the excel file is open during the process of writing to the excel file the "try" will keep attempting to write to the excel until its closed. So, if there were 5 attempts to write the data to the excel file, then after the excel file is closed that data will be written to the excel file n+1  times (6 times). When this happens it shows 6 rows of the newly written data, however, it's the same data. To illustrate this here is the output from the shell line while the excel file is open and when it's closed. Note, When I close it it will say Report Updated.

Ah, no.  According to your code, successfully writing to the file is 
what causes "Report Updated" to be printed, not the closing of the file. 
  It's important to be accurate about things like that, otherwise you 
spend hours looking for a connection in entirely the wrong place.

>
> Python 2.7.10 (default, May 23 2015, 09:40:32) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
>>>> ================================ RESTART ================================
>>>>
> -1
> Test = True
>
> error [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'C:\\Users\\Administrator\\Desktop\\Version5.0\\DeviceTrackerReport45.xlsx'
> -1
> Test = True
>
> error [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'C:\\Users\\Administrator\\Desktop\\Version5.0\\DeviceTrackerReport45.xlsx'
> -1
> Test = True
>
> error [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'C:\\Users\\Administrator\\Desktop\\Version5.0\\DeviceTrackerReport45.xlsx'
> -1
> Test = True
>
> error [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'C:\\Users\\Administrator\\Desktop\\Version5.0\\DeviceTrackerReport45.xlsx'
> -1
> Test = True
>
> error [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'C:\\Users\\Administrator\\Desktop\\Version5.0\\DeviceTrackerReport45.xlsx'
> -1
> Test = True
>
> Report Updated
>
> This is what's written to the excel file:
>
> 3	NB19097	24.221.51.225	376_SouthYard	373_Reseda	03-14-2017	07:03:46
> 4	NB19097	24.221.51.225	376_SouthYard	373_Reseda	03-14-2017	07:04:07
> 5	NB19097	24.221.51.225	376_SouthYard	373_Reseda	03-14-2017	07:04:27
> 6	NB19097	24.221.51.225	376_SouthYard	373_Reseda	03-14-2017	07:04:47
> 7	NB19097	24.221.51.225	376_SouthYard	373_Reseda	03-14-2017	07:05:07
> 8	NB19097	24.221.51.225	376_SouthYard	373_Reseda	03-14-2017	07:05:28
>
> As you can see from the shell line the number of attempts made, and from the excel file the number of rows taken, that there is a correlation between the attempts and what gets written to the excel file.

The interesting thing is that there is only one write.  This suggests 
that the information is being appended to another file somewhere, or 
held in some other way that persists between invocations of assetMapping.py.

Now I'm not going to hunt through your code for the answer, because 
there's too much of it and frankly the overly long lines don't survive 
email well on my machine.  However, you should look for the tidying up 
in your code that doesn't get done because the attempted write throws an 
exception.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd


From eryksun at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 13:12:38 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 17:12:38 +0000
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
In-Reply-To: <58c7d4e3$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CACL+1auv0oUGWcLgHJspZrRaPBUAhRrAUYuWt+KXcx-ZNB7hgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1489398514.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <58c7d4e3$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1avjeVfBVFhH2SmL2PAy4a+HSZXV5f39sSzTVmFsAnvfKg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 11:32 AM, Steve D'Aprano
<steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 08:47 pm, eryk sun wrote:
>
>> One hurdle to getting delete access is the sharing mode. If there are
>> existing File objects that reference the file, they all have to share
>> delete access. Otherwise the open fails with a sharing violation. This
>> is often the show stopper because the C runtime (and thus CPython,
>> usually) opens files with read and write sharing but not delete
>> sharing.
>
> This is the famous "can't delete a file which is open under Windows"
> problem, am I right?

If you aren't allowed shared delete access, the error you'll get is a
sharing violation (32). If the file security doesn't allow delete
access, then the error is access denied (5). In Python both of these
raise a PermissionError, so telling the difference requires checking
the winerror attribute.

Two more cases are (1) a read-only file and (2) a file that's
memory-mapped as code or data. In these two cases you can open the
file with delete access, which allows you to rename it, but setting
the delete disposition fails with access denied.

If you have the right to set the file's attributes, then you can at
least work around the read-only problem via os.chmod(filename,
stat.S_IWRITE).

For the mapped file case the best you can do is rename the file to
another directory. At least it gets it out of the way if you're doing
an upgrade to a running program. This workaround is rarely used -- I
think mostly due to people not knowing that it's possible.

> I take it that you *can* delete open files, but only if the process that
> opens them takes special care to use "delete sharing". Is that correct?

Unix programmers can't simply use delete sharing as a way to get
familiar semantics on Windows. A file pending delete is in limbo on
Windows. It can't be opened again, and as long as there are File
objects that reference the common file control block (FCB), it can't
be unlinked. One of those File objects may even be used to restore the
file (i.e. unset the delete disposition) if it has delete access.
Notably, this limbo file prevents the containing directory from being
deleted.

> I don't have a machine to test this on, but I'd like to deal with this
> situation in my (cross-platform) code. If I have one Python script do this:
>
> with open("My Documents/foo") as f:
>     time.sleep(100000)
>
> and while it is sleeping another script does this:
>
> os.remove("My Documents/foo")
>
> what exception will I get? Is that unique to this situation, or is a generic
> exception that could mean anything?

This will fail with a sharing violation, i.e. winerror == 32.

> My aim is to do:
>
> try:
>     os.remove(thefile)
> except SomeError:
>     # Could be a virus checker or other transient process.
>     time.sleep(0.2)
>     os.remove(thefile)  # try again
>
> Does that seem reasonable to you, as a Windows user?

If you get an access-denied error, then you can try to remove the
read-only attribute if it's set. Otherwise you can try to rename the
file to get it out of the way. But if you're locked out by a sharing
violation, there isn't anything you can do short of terminating the
offending program.

Virus scanners and other filter drivers generally aren't an immediate
problem with deleting. They share all access. But they might keep a
file from being immediately unlinked, which could cause problems in
functions like shutil.rmtree. Removing the parent directory can fail
if the file hasn't been unlinked yet.

>> In user mode, a kernel object such as a File instance is referenced as
>> a handle.
>
> Out of curiosity, I only know the term "handle" from classic Macintosh
> (pre-OS X) where a handle was a managed pointer to a pointer to a chunk of
> memory. Being managed, the OS could move the memory around without the
> handles ending up pointing to garbage. Is that the same meaning in Windows
> land?

That sounds similar to an HGLOBAL handle used with
GlobalAlloc/GlobalLock. This was a feature from 16-bit Windows, and
it's kept around for compatibility with older APIs that still use it.

I was talking about handles for kernel objects. Every process has a
table of handle entries that's used to refer to kernel objects. These
objects are allocated in the shared kernel space (the upper range of
virtual memory), so user-mode code can't refer to them directly.
Instead a program passes a handle to a system call, and kernel code
and drivers use the object manager to look up the pointer reference.

A kernel object has an associated type object (e.g. the "File" type),
and there's a "Type" metatype like in Python. The list of supported
methods is pretty basic:

    DumpProcedure, OpenProcedure, ParseProcedure,
    SecurityProcedure, QueryNameProcedure, OkayToCloseProcedure,
    CloseProcedure, DeleteProcedure

The close method is called when a process closes a handle to the
object. It gets passed a reference to the Process that's closing the
handle and also the object's handle count, both in the process and
across all processes, to allow for whatever cleanup is required when
the last handle is closed both in the process and in the system. The
delete method is called when the object is no longer referenced, which
is for pointer references, but that implicitly includes handle
references as well.

For the File type, these methods reference the associated Device and
call into the device stack with an I/O request packet (IRP). For
closing a handle the major function is IRP_MJ_CLEANUP. For deleting
the object the major function is IRP_MJ_CLOSE. The Driver object [1]
has a MajorFunction table of function pointers for dispatching IRPs by
major function code.

If a File object [2] refers to a file-system file/directory (as
opposed to a device), then the file-system context is the shared file
control block (FCB) and usually a private context control block (CCB),
which are respectively the object members FsContext and FsContext2. If
the FCB is flagged as delete-on-close, then when the last reference is
cleaned up, the file system does the work of unlinking and whatever
else it has to do to really delete a file. If the CCB is flagged as
delete-on-close (e.g. CreateFile was called with
FILE_FLAG_DELETE_ON_CLOSE), then when the File object is cleaned up it
transfers this flag to the shared FCB.

If you want to see this in practice, look at the published cleanup
code for the fastfat driver [3].

[1]: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff544174
[2]: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff545834
[3]: https://github.com/Microsoft/Windows-driver-samples/blob/master/filesys/fastfat/cleanup.c

> In principle, I could say:
>
> delete file X
>
> which then returns immediately, and if I try to open(X) it will fail. But I
> can still see it if I do a dir() on the parent directory?

Yes.

> Eventually the last reference to X will go away, and then it is unlinked.
> What happens if I pull the plug in the meantime? Will the file magically
> come back on rebooting?

Setting the delete disposition is just a flag in the in-memory FCB
structure, so if you pull the plug the file hasn't actually been
unlinked. It's still there.

Bear in mind that sharing delete access is rare on Windows. Normally
when a file is deleted there's only a single File object referencing
it, such as from DeleteFile calling NtOpenFile. Then it immediately
calls NtSetInformationFile to set the delete disposition. When it
closes the handle, this triggers the CloseProcedure => IRP_MJ_CLEANUP,
DeleteProcedure => IRP_MJ_CLOSE sequence that actually unlinks the
file.

>> Finally, I'm sure most people are familiar with the read-only file
>> attribute. If this attribute is set you can still open a file with
>> delete access to rename it, but setting the delete disposition will
>> fail with access denied.
>
> That was actually the situation I was thinking about when I started on this
> question. From Python code, I was considering writing something like this:
>
> def delete_readonly(thefile):
>     try:
>         os.remove(thefile)
>     except ReadOnlyFileError:  # what is this really?

It's a PermissionError with winerror == 5, i.e. access denied. As
mentioned above, you can use os.chmod to remove the read-only file
attribute.


From eryksun at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 13:40:04 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 17:40:04 +0000
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmp=4AmebVxJm6vwSQkxnfN32nt9Cf1UJnbdLV-T5QagEA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CACL+1auv0oUGWcLgHJspZrRaPBUAhRrAUYuWt+KXcx-ZNB7hgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1489398514.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <58c7d4e3$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmp=4AmebVxJm6vwSQkxnfN32nt9Cf1UJnbdLV-T5QagEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1au=PVDWPXkF+FJgboXhU0b1xJhpReRGf9mcC+q4YVxZjw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 1:07 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 10:32 PM, Steve D'Aprano
> <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>
>> I take it that you *can* delete open files, but only if the process that
>> opens them takes special care to use "delete sharing". Is that correct?
>
> Yes, but you can't always control the process that opens them. For
> example, it's annoyingly difficult to update a running executable.

One option is to move it out of the way. For example:

    src = Path(sys.executable)
    dst = Path('C:/Temp/python.exe')

    >>> src.exists(), dst.exists()
    (True, False)

    >>> src.rename(dst)
    >>> src.exists(), dst.exists()
    (False, True)

    >>> dst.rename(src)
    >>> src.exists(), dst.exists()
    (True, False)

> More generally, a handle is just an opaque cookie that represents a
> thing. If you do cross-platform socket programming, you'll find that
> on Unix, creating a socket returns a "file descriptor"; but on
> Windows, it returns a "socket handle". Aside from the fact that socket
> handles can only be used with socket functions (making them harder to
> pass to other processes etc), the two concepts work broadly the same
> way: you have a small integer value that represents a large resource.

Usually a socket is a handle for a File object, from opening the AFD
(ancillary function) device. You can use it with [Nt]ReadFile and
[Nt]WriteFile [1]. It's just better to use it with Winsock APIs like
WSARecv and WSASend, which make NtDeviceIoControlFile calls.

But there's also the headache of the deprecated layered service
providers, for which a socket isn't really a File object and using
File functions is inefficient.

[1]: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms740522

Similarly for a console File handle you can use [Nt]ReadFile and
[Nt]WriteFile, which encode and decode byte streams using the console
input and output codepages. But it's generally better to use
ReadConsole and WriteConsole, which allow using the UTF-16 API via
NtDeviceIoControlFile. ReadConsole also allows defining a custom
control mask, if, for example, you want Ctrl+D to signal EOF.

> I'm terrified to think what the interactions would be between this and
> the Ubuntu subsystem in Win 10. What're the semantics of unlinkat()?
> What about the common practice of creating a file and then unlinking
> it so it doesn't show up in the directory? (And is that different on a
> file system that supports hard links?) Or are heaps of POSIX features
> simply not available?

WSL uses the VolFs file system for the Linux VFS. This should
implement native Linux file-system behavior.

The interesting interaction is for Windows drives that are made
available under /mnt. In the following example, in Windows Python I
set the delete disposition on a file named "spam". Then in WSL python3
I checked the directory listing and whether I could stat, remove, or
open the file:

    >>> os.listdir()
    ['spam']

    >>> os.stat('spam')
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
    FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'spam'

    >>> os.remove('spam')
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
    FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'spam'

    >>> open('spam')
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
    FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'spam'

    >>> open('spam', 'w')
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
    FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'spam'

Back in Windows I called SetFileInformationByHandle to unset the
delete disposition. Then regular access was restored in WSL:

    >>> s = os.stat('spam')
    >>> s.st_ino, s.st_size
    (35184372088857305, 10)


From michael at felt.demon.nl  Tue Mar 14 14:28:53 2017
From: michael at felt.demon.nl (Michael Felt)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 19:28:53 +0100
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
In-Reply-To: <58c5fb06$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87inne1ggt.fsf@universite-de-strasbourg.fr.invalid>
 <58c5fb06$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <f770614e-7cfa-99ba-42cb-08ea77de611c@felt.demon.nl>

On 13/03/2017 02:51, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 05:45 am, Alain Ketterlin wrote:
>
>> Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info> writes:
> [...]
>>> It seems that os.remove on Linux will force the delete even if the file
>>> is read-only or unreadable, provided you own the file.
>> Your permissions on the file do not really matters. It's all about your
>> permissions on the parent directory (removing a file is really modifying
>> the parent dir). Actually, it is even slightly more complicated. Here is
>> an excerpt of the unlink(2) call (which does the job) listing common
>> error cases:
Granted, I am a bit behind in the discussion - and I know nothing about 
how Windows manages this since DOS 3.3 - there it also called unlink().

rm is the command we run. The system call it uses to remove a file is 
unlink(). unlink() removes the "link" of the name in the directory to 
the inode and lowers the count of the number of links to the file (a 
hard link is an additional directory link to the inode). To modify the 
inode (link counter) you need to own the file or have (super user) 
elevated privelidges. To remove the directory link you need to have 
write privilidge on the (special file type) directory.

On UNIX/Linux when the link count is zero the inode and the filesystem 
blocks it provides access to are cleared if no process is holding the 
file open. This means it is easy to unlink() (not remove!) an open file. 
The inode is active and can be used "normally". FYI, the classic 
mktemp() library routine on UNIX would create a file, open (better 
create) the file, unlink the file, and then return file descriptor. 
Regardless of how the program ended (crash or normal) the temp file 
would be cleaned up on exit.

I would be guessing - but FAT and/or NTFS may not be written to clean up 
on a file with no "links" - and this is why Windows behavior seems to be 
more restrictive than POSIX/LINUX.

> Thanks for the detailed explanation, and to everyone else who corrected my
> misunderstanding.
>
>
>



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Mar 14 14:53:52 2017
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 18:53:52 +0000
Subject: Extraction of model and date created tag from own picture/video
 recordings
In-Reply-To: <7fbbfdff-d7ab-4825-9721-2024fd4369bf@googlegroups.com>
References: <7fbbfdff-d7ab-4825-9721-2024fd4369bf@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d9e0e65c-bc8a-5742-c17b-59fc157a26f9@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2017-03-14 07:34, zljubisic at gmail.com wrote:
> I am looking for the way to extract two simple information from pictures/videos that I have recorded with different devices that I own: model (of the device that has recorded) and recordings (local) creation time.
>
> So far, I tried different approaches.
>
> I tried to use pymediainfo (https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pymediainfo/), which is kind of good for iPhone videos, but doesn't recognize model of the android videos and it is bed for pictures, but at the moment, I don't have anything better.
>
> I also tried ExifRead (https://pypi.python.org/pypi/ExifRead), that is good for some pictures, but not for all.
>
> For such a simple requirement (model and creation date) is there a library that can:
> 1.	Cover both pictures and videos
> 2.	Work with android and iPhone
>
> Does someone have an experience with such task in order to suggest a library to me?
>
It might be worth trying "ImageMagick".



From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 15:01:46 2017
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 19:01:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CACL+1auv0oUGWcLgHJspZrRaPBUAhRrAUYuWt+KXcx-ZNB7hgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oa9emq$vhs$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 2017-03-13, eryk sun <eryksun at gmail.com> wrote:

[An impressive 150-line explanation of file removal on Windows.]

Wow.  I have two comments:

1. I think I can see the VMS heritage of Windows shining through.

2. You have my condolences regarding whatever it was that required you
   to know all that...



VMS: for when just one overly complex solution to a simple problem
isn't enough.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Finally, Zippy
                                  at               drives his 1958 RAMBLER
                              gmail.com            METROPOLITAN into the
                                                   faculty dining room.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 15:19:48 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 06:19:48 +1100
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
In-Reply-To: <f770614e-7cfa-99ba-42cb-08ea77de611c@felt.demon.nl>
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87inne1ggt.fsf@universite-de-strasbourg.fr.invalid>
 <58c5fb06$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <f770614e-7cfa-99ba-42cb-08ea77de611c@felt.demon.nl>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoxAoUWa8BpUuXjxpQev5QqAEueVFQHDA6k=a-0re_P5g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 5:28 AM, Michael Felt <michael at felt.demon.nl> wrote:
> Granted, I am a bit behind in the discussion - and I know nothing about how
> Windows manages this since DOS 3.3 - there it also called unlink().
>
> rm is the command we run. The system call it uses to remove a file is
> unlink(). unlink() removes the "link" of the name in the directory to the
> inode and lowers the count of the number of links to the file (a hard link
> is an additional directory link to the inode). To modify the inode (link
> counter) you need to own the file or have (super user) elevated privelidges.
> To remove the directory link you need to have write privilidge on the
> (special file type) directory.
>
> On UNIX/Linux when the link count is zero the inode and the filesystem
> blocks it provides access to are cleared if no process is holding the file
> open. This means it is easy to unlink() (not remove!) an open file. The
> inode is active and can be used "normally". FYI, the classic mktemp()
> library routine on UNIX would create a file, open (better create) the file,
> unlink the file, and then return file descriptor. Regardless of how the
> program ended (crash or normal) the temp file would be cleaned up on exit.

You've fairly accurately summed up the POSIX model. The rm command
uses the unlink syscall, and the semantics are broadly as you
describe; the permissions question is handled by the standard
permission bits "rwxrwxrwx", but otherwise you're about right. And
yes, removing a file means removing one name from it, which is why a
log file growing to infinity can't simply be deleted when you run out
of disk space.

If the program ends while the OS is still alive, then yes, the temp
file will be cleaned up on exit. If the power is pulled, AIUI a fsck
will notice that there's a file with no directory entries, and clean
it up, although it may end up dropping it into lost+found rather than
just deleting it.

> I would be guessing - but FAT and/or NTFS may not be written to clean up on
> a file with no "links" - and this is why Windows behavior seems to be more
> restrictive than POSIX/LINUX.

The Windows semantics are very different. Firstly, FAT doesn't even
_have_ the concept of hardlinks (aka files with multiple directory
entries), so there's no way that it'll ever be able to do this kind of
thing. (And before you say "oh but FAT is dead these days", it's still
frequently used on removable media.) NTFS does have hardlinks, so in
theory it would be capable of POSIX semantics, but Windows semantics
are baked into a lot of programs' expectations, so I doubt that that's
going to change.

ChrisA


From saxri89 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 15:56:13 2017
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 12:56:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python and pyqt4
Message-ID: <02c730ac-9fb0-40d1-be2e-de86769e1106@googlegroups.com>

i will want to create a simple python script with pyqt4 and Q designer where the user put a number (line_edit) and if that number is something the user take back three new codes(lineEdit_2,lineEdit_3,lineEdit_4) and if user press ok(buttonBox) then plugin do something else in the some GUI.
for that i create a new additional pushButton in Qdesigner and i create additional def function(run1) for execute code for pushButton.


first i add new pushbutton in __init__ :
def __init__(self, iface):
    self.dlg = pluginDialog()
    self.dlg.pushButton.clicked.connect(self.run1)

plugin work without error but dont show me the codes (lineEdit_2,lineEdit_3,lineEdit_4) in the plugin window if i press 
pushbutton
any idea ? my python code :

def run1(self):
    distance = str(self.dlg.lineEdit.text())
    if distance==0:
        area1='some'
        area2='hello'
        area3='world'
    self.dlg.lineEdit_2.setText(str(area1))
    self.dlg.lineEdit_3.setText(str(area2))
    self.dlg.lineEdit_4.setText(str(area3))



def run(self):
    self.dlg.show()
    result = self.dlg.exec_()

    if result:
        pass

and i try to replace run1 with :

def run1(self):
    self.dlg.show()
    result = self.dlg.exec_()
    if result:
        distance = str(self.dlg.lineEdit.text())
        if distance==0:
            area1='some'
            area2='hello'
            area3='world'
        self.dlg.lineEdit_2.setText(str(area1))
        self.dlg.lineEdit_3.setText(str(area2))
        self.dlg.lineEdit_4.setText(str(area3))
        pass

but no change.


From saxri89 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 15:59:32 2017
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 12:59:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python and databases
Message-ID: <53e87a35-9911-4e87-9470-a09437b06e14@googlegroups.com>

I have a database in  microsoft ACCESS with about 150 records.. if I want to get some data from this database using  a query in python and i want to store in some variables in python that will do this ? to avoid the 150 if ...: Using the standard library the python? know easily put it an SQL query but i canot use additional library python.


From irving.duran at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 16:44:24 2017
From: irving.duran at gmail.com (Irving Duran)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 15:44:24 -0500
Subject: python and databases
In-Reply-To: <53e87a35-9911-4e87-9470-a09437b06e14@googlegroups.com>
References: <53e87a35-9911-4e87-9470-a09437b06e14@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAC9TaS7AgL90TD4QJGERkFDKCBkUdean6170wS840wkyB7Q9Xg@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know that there is a native library in python for you to call an MS
Access db.  Would you be able to extract the content into a CSV and read it
that way? Also, is there a particular reason why you couldn't use an
additional python lib?


Thank You,

Irving Duran

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Xristos Xristoou <saxri89 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a database in  microsoft ACCESS with about 150 records.. if I want
> to get some data from this database using  a query in python and i want to
> store in some variables in python that will do this ? to avoid the 150 if
> ...: Using the standard library the python? know easily put it an SQL query
> but i canot use additional library python.
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 16:58:08 2017
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:58:08 -0600
Subject: Python3.6 a little conundrum
In-Reply-To: <HkYxA.70654$314.16844@fx23.am4>
References: <C_ZtA.16397$p41.13139@fx21.am4>
 <CAPTjJmrDcWXdF=Dbbi94UGB0HTp9SW1nY--RmnTUrSPennCLCg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1488483247.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <Qz7uA.14379$nT1.13632@fx44.am4>
 <CAPTjJmq5zSi0Tu5Dw=5YZuiQ3G+PSm3ZBk9AgcW6Tj9rcpiE=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.135.1488521942.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <HkYxA.70654$314.16844@fx23.am4>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmB=_oh605OWJ_HfEHg4ef+A7ZRApVifucu8fuzmdM7fA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Gilmeh Serda
<gilmeh.serdah at nothing.here.invalid> wrote:
> Thanks. I guess I could get a new(-er) copy when that day comes and redo
> all this. I trust 3.6.0 won't be the last one. :)

As it says in the Book of Armaments, Chapter 2, verses 9?21:

"""
Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the
counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou
two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out.
"""

We should thus infer that Python 3.9 will be the final release as
Guido does not want a 3.10 and proceeding to 4.0 would be unholy.


From vincent.vande.vyvre at telenet.be  Tue Mar 14 17:03:37 2017
From: vincent.vande.vyvre at telenet.be (Vincent Vande Vyvre)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 22:03:37 +0100
Subject: python and pyqt4
In-Reply-To: <02c730ac-9fb0-40d1-be2e-de86769e1106@googlegroups.com>
References: <02c730ac-9fb0-40d1-be2e-de86769e1106@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcb994f8-f233-e8c3-4578-063253d37a48@telenet.be>

Le 14/03/17 ? 20:56, Xristos Xristoou a ?crit :
> i will want to create a simple python script with pyqt4 and Q designer where the user put a number (line_edit) and if that number is something the user take back three new codes(lineEdit_2,lineEdit_3,lineEdit_4) and if user press ok(buttonBox) then plugin do something else in the some GUI.
> for that i create a new additional pushButton in Qdesigner and i create additional def function(run1) for execute code for pushButton.
>
>
> first i add new pushbutton in __init__ :
> def __init__(self, iface):
>      self.dlg = pluginDialog()
>      self.dlg.pushButton.clicked.connect(self.run1)
>
> plugin work without error but dont show me the codes (lineEdit_2,lineEdit_3,lineEdit_4) in the plugin window if i press
> pushbutton
> any idea ? my python code :
>
> def run1(self):
>      distance = str(self.dlg.lineEdit.text())
>      if distance==0:
>          area1='some'
>          area2='hello'
>          area3='world'
>      self.dlg.lineEdit_2.setText(str(area1))
>      self.dlg.lineEdit_3.setText(str(area2))
>      self.dlg.lineEdit_4.setText(str(area3))
>
>
>
> def run(self):
>      self.dlg.show()
>      result = self.dlg.exec_()
>
>      if result:
>          pass
>
> and i try to replace run1 with :
>
> def run1(self):
>      self.dlg.show()
>      result = self.dlg.exec_()
>      if result:
>          distance = str(self.dlg.lineEdit.text())
>          if distance==0:
>              area1='some'
>              area2='hello'
>              area3='world'
>          self.dlg.lineEdit_2.setText(str(area1))
>          self.dlg.lineEdit_3.setText(str(area2))
>          self.dlg.lineEdit_4.setText(str(area3))
>          pass
>
> but no change.

distance is a string, then you have to compare it with the string "0" 
not the integer


Vincent



From python at lucidity.plus.com  Tue Mar 14 17:14:53 2017
From: python at lucidity.plus.com (Erik)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 21:14:53 +0000
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrim9TJHfOLgynUJATx_HkVXXQ_D8YJPkX8Y32qHCzzFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CACL+1auv0oUGWcLgHJspZrRaPBUAhRrAUYuWt+KXcx-ZNB7hgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1489398514.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <58c7d4e3$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmp=4AmebVxJm6vwSQkxnfN32nt9Cf1UJnbdLV-T5QagEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.36.1489496855.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnocfs97.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <CAPTjJmrim9TJHfOLgynUJATx_HkVXXQ_D8YJPkX8Y32qHCzzFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ef9b333-a1b2-14dd-0da3-ef06a16f2dfc@lucidity.plus.com>

On 14/03/17 13:56, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 12:30 AM, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu> wrote:
>> rm does not ask before deleting. However some Linux distributions
>> take it upon themselves to put "alias rm='rm -i'" in /etc/profile.
>
> I have no such alias, but it still prompts.

[snip]

> This is the GNU coreutils rm command. Obviously behaviour may be
> different with non-GNU rm's.

Yes, I believe this is something extra that particular versions of 'rm' 
may do (over and above the POSIX/unlink() semantics discussed already).

Although one has permission at the OS/filesystem level to unlink the 
file, unless '-f' is specified they may still ask ('-i' behaviour) if 
that file is otherwise not modifiable by the user running the command, 
as a safety net.

E.



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Mar 14 17:27:41 2017
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 21:27:41 +0000
Subject: python and pyqt4
In-Reply-To: <fcb994f8-f233-e8c3-4578-063253d37a48@telenet.be>
References: <02c730ac-9fb0-40d1-be2e-de86769e1106@googlegroups.com>
 <fcb994f8-f233-e8c3-4578-063253d37a48@telenet.be>
Message-ID: <633eebe7-ea88-3330-6d8a-b02925146031@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2017-03-14 21:03, Vincent Vande Vyvre wrote:
> Le 14/03/17 ? 20:56, Xristos Xristoou a ?crit :
>> i will want to create a simple python script with pyqt4 and Q designer where the user put a number (line_edit) and if that number is something the user take back three new codes(lineEdit_2,lineEdit_3,lineEdit_4) and if user press ok(buttonBox) then plugin do something else in the some GUI.
>> for that i create a new additional pushButton in Qdesigner and i create additional def function(run1) for execute code for pushButton.
>>
>>
>> first i add new pushbutton in __init__ :
>> def __init__(self, iface):
>>      self.dlg = pluginDialog()
>>      self.dlg.pushButton.clicked.connect(self.run1)
>>
>> plugin work without error but dont show me the codes (lineEdit_2,lineEdit_3,lineEdit_4) in the plugin window if i press
>> pushbutton
>> any idea ? my python code :
>>
>> def run1(self):
>>      distance = str(self.dlg.lineEdit.text())
>>      if distance==0:
>>          area1='some'
>>          area2='hello'
>>          area3='world'
>>      self.dlg.lineEdit_2.setText(str(area1))
>>      self.dlg.lineEdit_3.setText(str(area2))
>>      self.dlg.lineEdit_4.setText(str(area3))
>>
>>
>>
>> def run(self):
>>      self.dlg.show()
>>      result = self.dlg.exec_()
>>
>>      if result:
>>          pass
>>
>> and i try to replace run1 with :
>>
>> def run1(self):
>>      self.dlg.show()
>>      result = self.dlg.exec_()
>>      if result:
>>          distance = str(self.dlg.lineEdit.text())
>>          if distance==0:
>>              area1='some'
>>              area2='hello'
>>              area3='world'
>>          self.dlg.lineEdit_2.setText(str(area1))
>>          self.dlg.lineEdit_3.setText(str(area2))
>>          self.dlg.lineEdit_4.setText(str(area3))
>>          pass
>>
>> but no change.
>
> distance is a string, then you have to compare it with the string "0"
> not the integer
>
In addition, if the condition is false, then area1, area2 and area3 
won't exist, and you'll get a NameError (although the GUI might be 
hiding that from you!).



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 17:30:31 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:30:31 +1100
Subject: python and databases
In-Reply-To: <53e87a35-9911-4e87-9470-a09437b06e14@googlegroups.com>
References: <53e87a35-9911-4e87-9470-a09437b06e14@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq6dfgNf1+C5LnzmB=M4m4a8B+iA+pkHRBM+ZyPOheT+A@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 6:59 AM, Xristos Xristoou <saxri89 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a database in  microsoft ACCESS with about 150 records.. if I want to get some data from this database using  a query in python and i want to store in some variables in python that will do this ? to avoid the 150 if ...: Using the standard library the python? know easily put it an SQL query but i canot use additional library python.
>

If you can't use third-party libraries, then basically your only
option is to export it as text, eg CSV.

ChrisA


From brjohan at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 17:43:52 2017
From: brjohan at gmail.com (BrJohan)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 22:43:52 +0100
Subject: python and databases
In-Reply-To: <53e87a35-9911-4e87-9470-a09437b06e14@googlegroups.com>
References: <53e87a35-9911-4e87-9470-a09437b06e14@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <eir6gnFjjjhU1@mid.individual.net>

On 2017-03-14 20:59, Xristos Xristoou wrote:
> I have a database in  microsoft ACCESS with about 150 records.. if I want to get some data from this database using  a query in python and i want to store in some variables in python that will do this ? to avoid the 150 if ...: Using the standard library the python? know easily put it an SQL query but i canot use additional library python.
>
Some years ago I did some experiments using pyodbc and MS Access. Some 
success.


From irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl  Tue Mar 14 17:55:40 2017
From: irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 22:55:40 +0100
Subject: python and databases
In-Reply-To: <53e87a35-9911-4e87-9470-a09437b06e14@googlegroups.com>
References: <53e87a35-9911-4e87-9470-a09437b06e14@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <58c866dc$0$703$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

On 14-3-2017 20:59, Xristos Xristoou wrote:
> I have a database in  microsoft ACCESS with about 150 records.. if I want to get some
> data from this database using  a query in python and i want to store in some
> variables in python that will do this ? to avoid the 150 if ...: Using the standard
> library the python? know easily put it an SQL query but i canot use additional
> library python.
> 

Is the data in the Access database static? 150 records is not much data. You might be
able to extract it ONCE, and store it directly in Python data structures instead. Or
extract it and store it in a sqlite database instead, which you can use from Python
using the standard library's sqlite3 module.

If the data is dynamic however because it is being changed by other sources, you'll have
to use a third party library to get to it I think....


Irmen


From eryksun at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 20:09:34 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 00:09:34 +0000
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
In-Reply-To: <oa9emq$vhs$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CACL+1auv0oUGWcLgHJspZrRaPBUAhRrAUYuWt+KXcx-ZNB7hgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <oa9emq$vhs$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CACL+1avqCrAu64R1Xp_PpWbnFbYXfYTPZJ912wDkM=Rv4-Dp5A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Grant Edwards
<grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 1. I think I can see the VMS heritage of Windows shining through.

That's not surprising considering that VMS and NT have the same
architect -- Dave Cutler -- and that I/O system and file systems were
design by former DEC programmers that he brought with him, such as
Darryl Havens and Gary Kimura. The old joke is that WNT = VMS + 1.


From torriem at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 20:23:21 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 18:23:21 -0600
Subject: python and databases
In-Reply-To: <53e87a35-9911-4e87-9470-a09437b06e14@googlegroups.com>
References: <53e87a35-9911-4e87-9470-a09437b06e14@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cb7994da-3262-7665-57bb-7c0dc598dacb@gmail.com>

On 03/14/2017 01:59 PM, Xristos Xristoou wrote:
> I have a database in  microsoft ACCESS with about 150 records.. if I
> want to get some data from this database using  a query in python and
> i want to store in some variables in python that will do this ? to
> avoid the 150 if ...: Using the standard library the python? know
> easily put it an SQL query but i canot use additional library
> python.

If you simply want to move data to an sql server, your best bet is to
use mdbtools to dump the database schema and records out to an .sql file
that you can then massage and import into whatever sql server you are
using.

https://github.com/brianb/mdbtools

If you're looking for a way to use the access file directly, and
continue using it in MS Access, you might be able to get the odbc bridge
working (on windows of course), and communicate with it with pyodbc.


From christina at codepop.com  Tue Mar 14 20:45:50 2017
From: christina at codepop.com (Christina Lugo)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 20:45:50 -0400
Subject: Open SourceCraft Interview w/Python Instructor Trey Hunner
Message-ID: <1613fb8b-6ad5-551d-3c45-0756e6236d62@codepop.com>

Hello,

*I wanted to let you know about an interview I just published on Open 
SourceCraft with Trey Hunner, who worked his way from a freelance Python 
dev to a Python instructor.  He also runs weekly free Python chat where 
he discusses Python, teaching, open source, and more.  Here is the link 
to his interview:*

*http://codepop.com/open-sourcecraft/episodes/trey-hunner/*

*Thanks so much! *

*Christina Lugo*



From eryksun at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 21:21:12 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 01:21:12 +0000
Subject: When will os.remove fail?
In-Reply-To: <u5qgccpp6kf6fat6qirvom2vd67fo2dc5t@4ax.com>
References: <58c58a0c$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CACL+1auv0oUGWcLgHJspZrRaPBUAhRrAUYuWt+KXcx-ZNB7hgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1489398514.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <58c7d4e3$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmp=4AmebVxJm6vwSQkxnfN32nt9Cf1UJnbdLV-T5QagEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <u5qgccpp6kf6fat6qirvom2vd67fo2dc5t@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1atHB1kiQtpgFAE2gMyLhh7x=G4a9rTTQ0qZGfR2Gva+GQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 10:05 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 00:07:32 +1100, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>
>
>>Yes, but you can't always control the process that opens them. For
>>example, it's annoyingly difficult to update a running executable.
>>
> I wouldn't be surprised if Windows mmap()'s running executables into
> swap space, rather than actually swapping in-core image to the normal swap
> file.

Executables are memory mapped, and this also applies to memory-mapped
data files (i.e. CreateFileMapping / MapViewOfFile) like with Python's
mmap module. Notice how the fastfat driver's function that sets the
delete disposition, FatSetDispositionInfo [1], has to check for this
by calling the kernel memory-manager function MmFlushImageSection [2]
(note that a flush type of MmFlushForDelete also checks the number of
views of the data section). If the mapped view prevents deleting the
file it returns STATUS_CANNOT_DELETE. This status code gets translated
to the Windows error code ERROR_ACCESS_DENIED, for which Python raises
a PermissionError. This is misleading because you were probably
granted delete access. The file just can't be deleted.

Typically you can still open such files with delete access to allow
renaming (relinking) them to another directory on the volume. You're
just not allowed to unlink them.

[1]: https://github.com/Microsoft/Windows-driver-samples/blob/master/filesys/fastfat/fileinfo.c#L2417
[2]: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff549808

It's also interesting that the sharing mode is special cased. Normally
if write access isn't shared you're denied the right to open the file
with either write or append access. But with executables mapped by the
loader, you can still open them for append access.

The C runtime's POSIX (low) I/O layer has its own implementation of
append mode that requires opening the file with both write and append
access (O_WRONLY | O_APPEND), which is what Python's "a" mode uses. So
you have to call CreateFile directly to get append-only access. For
example, using a virtual environment copy of python.exe:

    append = 4
    h = _winapi.CreateFile(sys.executable, append, 7, 0, 3, 0, 0)
    _winapi.WriteFile(h, b'spam')

    f = open(sys.executable, 'rb')
    f.seek(-4, os.SEEK_END)

    >>> f.read()
    b'spam'


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Wed Mar 15 04:02:00 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 19:02:00 +1100
Subject: Extract items from string in db
References: <oa9qgj$j56$2@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <58c8f4fa$0$1587$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 09:26 am, DFS wrote:

> I have a SQLite database with TEXT columns containing strings of the
> format:
> 
> ['Item1: Value1 has,comma','Item2: has'apostrophe','Item3: Value3']
> 
> The brackets are part of the string.

So in Python format, you have something like this:

s = "['Item1: Value1 has,comma','Item2: has'apostrophe','Item3: Value3']"
assert type(s) is str
assert s[0] == "["
assert s[-1] == "]"


Correct?

I can't help you in getting s out of the SQLite database. Below, you tell us
that you're extracting the string, but it isn't actually a string, it is a
tuple. You need to fix that.


> How can I unpack and access each item?
> Item1: Value1 has,comma
> Item2: has'apostrophe
> Item3: Value3


Is the string format documented anywhere?



> I tried this:
> db.execute("SELECT COLUMN FROM TABLE WHERE ID = ?;",(123,))
> vals = [db.fetchone()]
> for val in list(vals):
>     print val


There's no point wrapping the output of db.fetchone() in a list. And no
point converting vals to a list.

db.execute("SELECT COLUMN FROM TABLE WHERE ID = ?;", (123,))
vals = db.fetchone()
for val in vals:
    print type(val), val


What does it output now?



> but it just prints the string as is.
> 
> split(",") returns "tuple object has no attribute split"

If it is a tuple object, it isn't a string. It isn't both at once.





-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From zljubisic at gmail.com  Wed Mar 15 04:31:18 2017
From: zljubisic at gmail.com (zljubisic at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 01:31:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Extraction of model and date created tag from own picture/video
 recordings
In-Reply-To: <mailman.47.1489517646.2614.python-list@python.org>
References: <7fbbfdff-d7ab-4825-9721-2024fd4369bf@googlegroups.com>
 <d9e0e65c-bc8a-5742-c17b-59fc157a26f9@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.47.1489517646.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <afc730d7-2e83-484d-8078-8ce0c6cbe525@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 19:54:18 UTC+1, MRAB  wrote:
> It might be worth trying "ImageMagick".

ImageMagick is only for pictures. :(
Do you have a suggestion for videos?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Mar 15 05:04:29 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 20:04:29 +1100
Subject: Extraction of model and date created tag from own picture/video
 recordings
In-Reply-To: <afc730d7-2e83-484d-8078-8ce0c6cbe525@googlegroups.com>
References: <7fbbfdff-d7ab-4825-9721-2024fd4369bf@googlegroups.com>
 <d9e0e65c-bc8a-5742-c17b-59fc157a26f9@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.47.1489517646.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <afc730d7-2e83-484d-8078-8ce0c6cbe525@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpz4FyDDX9ZEz4oeND7rJM6Qc4KyeD3E-HQrUKGTz1CqA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 7:31 PM,  <zljubisic at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 19:54:18 UTC+1, MRAB  wrote:
>> It might be worth trying "ImageMagick".
>
> ImageMagick is only for pictures. :(
> Do you have a suggestion for videos?

What format are they in? Search the web for "read <format> media info"
and see what you find. Optionally add "python" to look specifically
for libraries for Python.

ChrisA


From zljubisic at gmail.com  Wed Mar 15 05:22:53 2017
From: zljubisic at gmail.com (zljubisic at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 02:22:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Extraction of model and date created tag from own picture/video
 recordings
In-Reply-To: <mailman.61.1489568678.2614.python-list@python.org>
References: <7fbbfdff-d7ab-4825-9721-2024fd4369bf@googlegroups.com>
 <d9e0e65c-bc8a-5742-c17b-59fc157a26f9@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.47.1489517646.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <afc730d7-2e83-484d-8078-8ce0c6cbe525@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmpz4FyDDX9ZEz4oeND7rJM6Qc4KyeD3E-HQrUKGTz1CqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.61.1489568678.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <91b42555-2aaf-4382-932e-82433212bb21@googlegroups.com>

I have done that. The best article I have found is:
https://getpocket.com/a/read/1651596570

So far I have tried exifread, exiftool, mediainfo, but looks like I will have to combine several tools in order to get the information that I need.
Major problem is with the model. Looks like every manufacturer has its tags. :(


From nulla.epistola at web.de  Wed Mar 15 05:53:33 2017
From: nulla.epistola at web.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 10:53:33 +0100
Subject: python and databases
In-Reply-To: <cb7994da-3262-7665-57bb-7c0dc598dacb@gmail.com>
References: <53e87a35-9911-4e87-9470-a09437b06e14@googlegroups.com>
 <cb7994da-3262-7665-57bb-7c0dc598dacb@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <37595e05-ea8d-50ad-b553-e0aae514e289@web.de>

Am 15.03.2017 um 01:23 schrieb Michael Torrie:
> On 03/14/2017 01:59 PM, Xristos Xristoou wrote:
>> I have a database in  microsoft ACCESS with about 150 records.. if I
>> want to get some data from this database using  a query in python and
>> i want to store in some variables in python that will do this ? to
>> avoid the 150 if ...: Using the standard library the python? know
>> easily put it an SQL query but i canot use additional library
>> python.
>
> If you simply want to move data to an sql server, your best bet is to
> use mdbtools to dump the database schema and records out to an .sql file
> that you can then massage and import into whatever sql server you are
> using.
>
> https://github.com/brianb/mdbtools
>
> If you're looking for a way to use the access file directly, and
> continue using it in MS Access, you might be able to get the odbc bridge
> working (on windows of course), and communicate with it with pyodbc.
>

Or you could use adodbapi. Depending on your Python installation you 
might have the Python for Windows extensions already installed (are they 
still part of ActivePython?), so that might not count as a third party 
library.



From nulla.epistola at web.de  Wed Mar 15 05:53:33 2017
From: nulla.epistola at web.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 10:53:33 +0100
Subject: python and databases
In-Reply-To: <cb7994da-3262-7665-57bb-7c0dc598dacb@gmail.com>
References: <53e87a35-9911-4e87-9470-a09437b06e14@googlegroups.com>
 <cb7994da-3262-7665-57bb-7c0dc598dacb@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <37595e05-ea8d-50ad-b553-e0aae514e289@web.de>

Am 15.03.2017 um 01:23 schrieb Michael Torrie:
> On 03/14/2017 01:59 PM, Xristos Xristoou wrote:
>> I have a database in  microsoft ACCESS with about 150 records.. if I
>> want to get some data from this database using  a query in python and
>> i want to store in some variables in python that will do this ? to
>> avoid the 150 if ...: Using the standard library the python? know
>> easily put it an SQL query but i canot use additional library
>> python.
>
> If you simply want to move data to an sql server, your best bet is to
> use mdbtools to dump the database schema and records out to an .sql file
> that you can then massage and import into whatever sql server you are
> using.
>
> https://github.com/brianb/mdbtools
>
> If you're looking for a way to use the access file directly, and
> continue using it in MS Access, you might be able to get the odbc bridge
> working (on windows of course), and communicate with it with pyodbc.
>

Or you could use adodbapi. Depending on your Python installation you 
might have the Python for Windows extensions already installed (are they 
still part of ActivePython?), so that might not count as a third party 
library.




From marco.nawijn at colosso.nl  Wed Mar 15 05:54:49 2017
From: marco.nawijn at colosso.nl (marco.nawijn at colosso.nl)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 02:54:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
Message-ID: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>

Dear All,

Summary of the question:
Is it generally safe to dynamically change an objects class; if not 
under which conditions can it be considered safe.

Context:
Given the code below, I have no direct control over Base and M1. M1
is a instantiated by 'calling' the read-only property of Base. 
I would like to transparently switch behaviour from M1 to M2. I have
tried several things, but finally settled on the code below. Although
it works really well, I am not sure whether I am about to shoot myself 
in the foot. In short, what I do is derive from Base, shadow the read-only
property 'my_prop' so it returns M2 and finally replace an objects __class__
attribute with my derived class.

Any thoughts or comments?

(code below is Python 3)

class M1(object):

    def __init__(self):
        print('Initializing M1')


class M2(object):
                                                                                     
    def __init__(self):                                                              
        print('Initializing M2')                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
class Base(object):                                                                  
                                                                                     
    @property                                                                        
    def my_prop(self):                                                               
        return M1()


class ShadowBase(Base):

    @property
    def my_prop(self):
        return M2()

if __name__ == '__main__':

    o = Base()
    o.my_prop
    # Prints 'Initializing M1'

    o = Base()
    o.__class__ = ShadowBase
    o.my_prop
    # Prints 'Initializing M2'


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Mar 15 06:33:26 2017
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 11:33:26 +0100
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <oab59h$q32$1@blaine.gmane.org>

marco.nawijn at colosso.nl wrote:

> Dear All,
> 
> Summary of the question:
> Is it generally safe to dynamically change an objects class; if not
> under which conditions can it be considered safe.
> 
> Context:
> Given the code below, I have no direct control over Base and M1. M1
> is a instantiated by 'calling' the read-only property of Base.
> I would like to transparently switch behaviour from M1 to M2. I have
> tried several things, but finally settled on the code below. Although
> it works really well, I am not sure whether I am about to shoot myself
> in the foot. In short, what I do is derive from Base, shadow the read-only
> property 'my_prop' so it returns M2 and finally replace an objects
> __class__ attribute with my derived class.
> 
> Any thoughts or comments?

Saying that something is "safe" is always problematic. I'd rather look for 
ways to break the code and then decide if you can live with these potential 
problems. I'll start with

- If Base is reimplemented in C __class__ may become read-only
- my_prop may be accessed by Base methods and expect an M1 instance

> (code below is Python 3)
> 
> class M1(object):
> 
>     def __init__(self):
>         print('Initializing M1')
> 
> 
> class M2(object):
>                                                                                      
>     def __init__(self):
>         print('Initializing M2')
>                                                                                      
>                                                                                      
> class Base(object):
>                                                                                      
>     @property
>     def my_prop(self):
>         return M1()
> 
> 
> class ShadowBase(Base):
> 
>     @property
>     def my_prop(self):
>         return M2()
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
> 
>     o = Base()
>     o.my_prop
>     # Prints 'Initializing M1'
> 
>     o = Base()
>     o.__class__ = ShadowBase
>     o.my_prop
>     # Prints 'Initializing M2'




From marco.nawijn at colosso.nl  Wed Mar 15 06:55:47 2017
From: marco.nawijn at colosso.nl (marco.nawijn at colosso.nl)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 03:55:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.64.1489574024.2614.python-list@python.org>
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <oab59h$q32$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.64.1489574024.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <290ca112-02a2-426a-bdc5-43689bd869e5@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 11:33:56 AM UTC+1, Peter Otten wrote:
> marco.nawijn at colosso.nl wrote:
> 
> > Dear All,
> > 
> > Summary of the question:
> > Is it generally safe to dynamically change an objects class; if not
> > under which conditions can it be considered safe.
> > 
> > Context:
> > Given the code below, I have no direct control over Base and M1. M1
> > is a instantiated by 'calling' the read-only property of Base.
> > I would like to transparently switch behaviour from M1 to M2. I have
> > tried several things, but finally settled on the code below. Although
> > it works really well, I am not sure whether I am about to shoot myself
> > in the foot. In short, what I do is derive from Base, shadow the read-only
> > property 'my_prop' so it returns M2 and finally replace an objects
> > __class__ attribute with my derived class.
> > 
> > Any thoughts or comments?
> 
> Saying that something is "safe" is always problematic. I'd rather look for 
> ways to break the code and then decide if you can live with these potential 
> problems. I'll start with
> 
> - If Base is reimplemented in C __class__ may become read-only
> - my_prop may be accessed by Base methods and expect an M1 instance

Ok. These are valid points. The first is not a real concern to me at the
moment. The whole purpose of Base is to provide a higher level interface
to the underlying C/C++ code.

The second is more interesting. I was aware of this and checked the source
code of the library. I know an M1 instance is not directly used by Base.
In addition, I expose the exact same interface in M2. 

Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated!

Marco


From cl at isbd.net  Wed Mar 15 08:04:59 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 12:04:59 +0000
Subject: How to make selected row visible in GTK TreeView?
Message-ID: <b8nnpd-eni.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

I have a GTK TreeView with scrollbars which enables me to scroll
through the values OK.  Clicking on a row selects it and highlights
it. 

However if one uses 'down arrow' to move the selection/highlight down
the list then the selected row disappears from the visibble window.
How can I scroll the window so that the selected row remains visible? 

I would also like a 'go to row x' function to scroll to a specific
row in the list and highlight it.  I guess this would need very
similar code to the first requirement.

-- 
Chris Green
?


From g.starck at gmail.com  Wed Mar 15 09:49:32 2017
From: g.starck at gmail.com (gst)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 06:49:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <290ca112-02a2-426a-bdc5-43689bd869e5@googlegroups.com>
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <oab59h$q32$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.64.1489574024.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <290ca112-02a2-426a-bdc5-43689bd869e5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <791c33da-e4dc-47c0-b74c-2df3609d2037@googlegroups.com>

Hi,
You can subclass M2 from M1 and override only what you need. 
Regards,


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Wed Mar 15 09:53:04 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 00:53:04 +1100
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:54 pm, marco.nawijn at colosso.nl wrote:

> Dear All,
> 
> Summary of the question:
> Is it generally safe to dynamically change an objects class; if not
> under which conditions can it be considered safe.

*Generally* safe? No. You cannot expect to take an arbitrary object and
change its class:


animal = Whale()
animal.__class__ = Bird
animal.fly()


You probably can't make a whale fly just by changing the class to bird. It
will need wings, and feathers, at the very least.

For pure-Python classes, it is "safe" in the sense that the worst that will
happen is an exception, not a seg fault or core dump. But it is not safe in
the sense that the instance will work correctly: methods may fail, or do he
wrong thing.

(Actually, *silently doing the wrong thing* is usually much worse than
raising an exception or crashing. At least when the program crashes, you
know it is broken!)

For *cooperative* classes, where you design the Before and After classes to
operate correctly when you change the __class__, that's perfectly safe.


> Context:
> Given the code below, I have no direct control over Base and M1. M1
> is a instantiated by 'calling' the read-only property of Base.
> I would like to transparently switch behaviour from M1 to M2. I have
> tried several things, but finally settled on the code below. Although
> it works really well, I am not sure whether I am about to shoot myself
> in the foot. In short, what I do is derive from Base, shadow the read-only
> property 'my_prop' so it returns M2 and finally replace an objects
> __class__ attribute with my derived class.

Sounds scarily confusing, and I say that as somebody who LOVES the "swap the
__class__" trick when it is appropriate. If I wouldn't risk swapping out
the __class__ if I didn't control the classes. You have this:


o = Base()
o.my_prop
# Prints 'Initializing M1'

o = Base()
o.__class__ = ShadowBase
o.my_prop
# Prints 'Initializing M2'


But why not just do this?

o = ShadowBase()  # inherits from Base, overrides my_prop
o.my_prop
# Prints 'Initializing M2'


This sounds like an ordinary example of class inheritance to me, no need to
add complications with swapping out the __class__ for something different.


The only reason I would consider using the __class__ trick here is if you
don't control the instantiation of the object: you don't create your own
instance, you receive it pre-instantiated from elsewhere.




-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From odt at dtrx.de  Wed Mar 15 10:19:46 2017
From: odt at dtrx.de (Olaf Dietrich)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 14:19:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: numpy indexing performance
Message-ID: <oabii2$2uh$1@news.informatik.tu-muenchen.de>

This is a simplified example of a Monte Carlo
simulation where random vectors (here 2D vectors,
which are all zero) are summed (the result is in
r1 and r2 or r, respectively):

def case1():
    import numpy as np
    M = 100000
    N = 10000
    r1 = np.zeros(M)
    r2 = np.zeros(M)
    s1 = np.zeros(N)
    s2 = np.zeros(N)
    for n in range(1000):
        ind = np.random.random_integers(N, size=M) - 1
        r1 += s1[ind]
        r2 += s2[ind]

def case2():
    import numpy as np
    M = 100000
    N = 10000
    r = np.zeros((M, 2))
    s = np.zeros((N, 2))
    for n in range(1000): 
        ind = np.random.random_integers(N, size=M) - 1
        r += s[ind]

import timeit

print("case1:", timeit.timeit(
    "case1()", setup="from __main__ import case1", number=1))
print("case2:", timeit.timeit(
    "case2()", setup="from __main__ import case2", number=1))


Resulting in:

case1: 2.6224704339983873
case2: 4.374910838028882


Why is case2 significantly slower (almost by a
factor of 2) than case1? There should be the same number
of operations (additions) in both cases; the main
difference is the indexing.

Is there another (faster) way to avoid the separate
component arrays r1 and r2? (I also tried
r = np.zeros(M, dtype='2d'), which was comparable
to case2.)

Olaf


From toby at tobiah.org  Wed Mar 15 10:23:19 2017
From: toby at tobiah.org (Tobiah)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 07:23:19 -0700
Subject: Extract items from string in db
References: <oa9qgj$j56$2@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <oabion$1pfb$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On 03/14/2017 03:26 PM, DFS wrote:
> I have a SQLite database with TEXT columns containing strings of the format:
> 
> ['Item1: Value1 has,comma','Item2: has'apostrophe','Item3: Value3']
> 
> The brackets are part of the string.
> 
> How can I unpack and access each item?
> Item1: Value1 has,comma
> Item2: has'apostrophe
> Item3: Value3
> 

This problem is probably unsolvable for all cases because the data is
apparently allowed to freely contain the characters that provide the
string with its structure.  Still, there are clues that enable the
parsing of most normal cases you are likely to encounter.  This
hinges on the fact that "','" is unlikely to occur in the actual data:


s = "['Item1: Value1 has,comma','Item2: has'apostrophe','Item3: Value3']"

items = s[2:-2].split("','") # Toss brackets, first and last quotes

for thing in items:
        key, val = thing.split(": ")
        print "%s: %s" % (key, val)

Output:
-------

Item1: Value1 has,comma
Item2: has'apostrophe
Item3: Value3


From saxri89 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 15 10:45:14 2017
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 07:45:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python and databases
In-Reply-To: <53e87a35-9911-4e87-9470-a09437b06e14@googlegroups.com>
References: <53e87a35-9911-4e87-9470-a09437b06e14@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4369f5e2-831b-4c87-b4d3-ddb177a81fe5@googlegroups.com>

?? ?????, 14 ??????? 2017 - 9:59:42 ?.?. UTC+2, ? ??????? Xristos Xristoou ??????:
first thx for response second i cant use additional packate because i build tool for other python program and that use standar python only,
sqlite is in standar python 2.7 @Irmen de Jong  ?
can use quyries in CSV @ Irving Duran @Chris Angelico  ?


From torriem at gmail.com  Wed Mar 15 11:19:00 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 09:19:00 -0600
Subject: python and databases
In-Reply-To: <4369f5e2-831b-4c87-b4d3-ddb177a81fe5@googlegroups.com>
References: <53e87a35-9911-4e87-9470-a09437b06e14@googlegroups.com>
 <4369f5e2-831b-4c87-b4d3-ddb177a81fe5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <256d4dcf-f423-a232-ba69-fee5fa13e714@gmail.com>

On 03/15/2017 08:45 AM, Xristos Xristoou wrote:
> first thx for response second i cant use additional packate because i
> build tool for other python program and that use standar python
> only,

I don't see how you can retrieve data from MS Access without a tool that
is not part of the standard Python distribution.

> sqlite is in standar python 2.7 @Irmen de Jong  ?

Yes.  Sqlite3 is built into Python 2.7.  However I don't see how it will
help you with an access database. You'd have to convert the data from MS
Access to sql and insert it into the sqlite database.

> can use quyries in CSV @ Irving Duran @Chris Angelico  ?

No. CSV is just a data interchange format.  It's not a database.
However you could export the entire table from MS Access to CSV and then
with a Python script create an SQLite table and insert records into it
from the CSV file that you load and parse with Python.




From bolchisb at gmail.com  Wed Mar 15 14:18:19 2017
From: bolchisb at gmail.com (Bogdan Radu Bolchis)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 11:18:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: crc method for a serial driver for fiscal cash register
Message-ID: <16c6144f-923a-4dd1-89af-83b8c33028d2@googlegroups.com>

hi,
  i'm developing a Point Of Sale app in python for my company, and we need to integrate the fiscal cash register driver in python. The original driver is only for windows and no longer supported, we want to switch to Linux. We managed to find the serial protocol, but the sent data is followed by a CRC.

  Can someone help me building a CRC function according to the manufacturer data?

Here is what i have:

ALGORITHM FOR CRC CALCULATION

The two CRC bytes are calculated according to the formula x^15 + 1. In the calculation are included all data bytes plus the byte for block end. Every byte passes through the calculation register from teh MSB to LSB.
Three working bytes are used - S1, S0 and TR
S1 - Most significant byte from the CRC ( it is transmitted immediatelly after END)
S0 - Least significant byte from the CRC ( It is transmitted after S1)
TR - the current transmitted byte in the block.

The CRC is calculated as follows:
1. S1 and S0 are zeroed
2. TR is loaded with the current transmitted byte. The byte is transmitted.
3. Points 3.1 and 3.2 are executed 8 times:
3.1. S1, S0 and TR are shifted one bit to the left.
3.2. If the carry bit from S1 is 1, the MSB of S1 and LSB of S0 are inverted.
Points 2 and 3 are executed for all bytes, included in the calculation of the CRC - from the first byte after BEG up to and including byte END.
4. TR is loaded with 0 and point 3 is executed
5. TR is loaded with 0 and point 3 is executed
6. Byte S1 is transmitted
7. Byte S0 is transmitted

ALGORITHM FOR CRC CHECK ON RECEIVING

Three working bytes are used S1, S0 and RC

S1 - Most significant byte from the CRC ( it is received immediately after END)
S0 - Least significant byte from the CRC ( transmitted after S1)
RC - the current received byte in the block ( beginning from the first byte after BEG and ending 2 bytes after END).

The CRC is obtained as follows:
1. S1 and S0 are zeroed
2. RC is loaded with the current received byte
3. Points 3.1 and 3.2 are executed 8 times:
3.1. S1, S0 and RC are shifted 8 times to the left
3.2. if the MSB of S1 is 1 then MSB of S1 and LSB of S0 are inverted. 
Points 2 and 3 are executed for all bytes, included in the calculation of the CRC - from the first byte after BEG up to and including 2 bytes after END.
S1 and S0 must be 0.

thank you


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Mar 15 18:03:56 2017
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:03:56 +1300
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <eits2eF5aj5U1@mid.individual.net>

Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> You probably can't make a whale fly just by changing the class to bird. It
> will need wings, and feathers, at the very least.

Some things succeed in flying with neither wings nor feathers.
Helicopters, for example.

-- 
Greg


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Mar 15 18:13:19 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 09:13:19 +1100
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <eits2eF5aj5U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <eits2eF5aj5U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpMfpyrGHyt6zUdXbc8oVNe7fUNVggqHgPSoHa0EXXVrw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Gregory Ewing
<greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>> You probably can't make a whale fly just by changing the class to bird. It
>> will need wings, and feathers, at the very least.
>
>
> Some things succeed in flying with neither wings nor feathers.
> Helicopters, for example.

Yeah but they do it by being so ugly that the earth repels them. I'm
not sure that whale.ugliness is valid or high enough.

ChrisA


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Mar 15 18:19:04 2017
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 22:19:04 +0000
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <eits2eF5aj5U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <eits2eF5aj5U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <d7e3e069-d30c-079b-500f-4567e4b05a6e@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2017-03-15 22:03, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> You probably can't make a whale fly just by changing the class to bird. It
>> will need wings, and feathers, at the very least.
>
> Some things succeed in flying with neither wings nor feathers.
> Helicopters, for example.
>
Could you argue that the blades were a kind of wing? After all, they 
rely on the same principle of moving through the air to produce lift.

Balloons, on the other hand, ... :-)



From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Mar 15 18:28:48 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 09:28:48 +1100
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <d7e3e069-d30c-079b-500f-4567e4b05a6e@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <eits2eF5aj5U1@mid.individual.net>
 <d7e3e069-d30c-079b-500f-4567e4b05a6e@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrSUt7R71dk5kjppxvf-OCw+HkttokbbTiunfvBkm17XQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 9:19 AM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> On 2017-03-15 22:03, Gregory Ewing wrote:
>>
>> Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>>>
>>> You probably can't make a whale fly just by changing the class to bird.
>>> It
>>> will need wings, and feathers, at the very least.
>>
>>
>> Some things succeed in flying with neither wings nor feathers.
>> Helicopters, for example.
>>
> Could you argue that the blades were a kind of wing? After all, they rely on
> the same principle of moving through the air to produce lift.
>
> Balloons, on the other hand, ... :-)

Certainly not. If they were, you'd move (or spin) them faster to go
up, and slower to go down. But you don't. So it's all about the
ugliness. You twist the blades up a bit to make the helicopter uglier.

ChrisA


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Mar 15 18:31:05 2017
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 22:31:05 +0000
Subject: crc method for a serial driver for fiscal cash register
In-Reply-To: <16c6144f-923a-4dd1-89af-83b8c33028d2@googlegroups.com>
References: <16c6144f-923a-4dd1-89af-83b8c33028d2@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5fc7c1ce-120b-1748-04ee-e7220ffe6b5e@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2017-03-15 18:18, Bogdan Radu Bolchis wrote:
> hi,
>   i'm developing a Point Of Sale app in python for my company, and we need to integrate the fiscal cash register driver in python. The original driver is only for windows and no longer supported, we want to switch to Linux. We managed to find the serial protocol, but the sent data is followed by a CRC.
>
>   Can someone help me building a CRC function according to the manufacturer data?
>
> Here is what i have:
>
> ALGORITHM FOR CRC CALCULATION
>
> The two CRC bytes are calculated according to the formula x^15 + 1. In the calculation are included all data bytes plus the byte for block end. Every byte passes through the calculation register from teh MSB to LSB.
> Three working bytes are used - S1, S0 and TR
> S1 - Most significant byte from the CRC ( it is transmitted immediatelly after END)
> S0 - Least significant byte from the CRC ( It is transmitted after S1)
> TR - the current transmitted byte in the block.
>
> The CRC is calculated as follows:
> 1. S1 and S0 are zeroed
> 2. TR is loaded with the current transmitted byte. The byte is transmitted.
> 3. Points 3.1 and 3.2 are executed 8 times:
> 3.1. S1, S0 and TR are shifted one bit to the left.
> 3.2. If the carry bit from S1 is 1, the MSB of S1 and LSB of S0 are inverted.
> Points 2 and 3 are executed for all bytes, included in the calculation of the CRC - from the first byte after BEG up to and including byte END.
> 4. TR is loaded with 0 and point 3 is executed
> 5. TR is loaded with 0 and point 3 is executed
> 6. Byte S1 is transmitted
> 7. Byte S0 is transmitted
>
[snip]
Step 3 is a little unclear.

Step 3.1 says to shift TR, but step 3.2 says to check the carry bit 
after shifting S1, which is zero initially, therefore the carry bit will 
be clear, therefore S1 and S0 won't have any bits inverted and will stay 
zero.

In summary, the CRC won't be affected by the data _at all_.

And how about a few examples for checking the algorithm?



From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Mar 15 20:08:16 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:08:16 +1100
Subject: crc method for a serial driver for fiscal cash register
In-Reply-To: <5fc7c1ce-120b-1748-04ee-e7220ffe6b5e@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <16c6144f-923a-4dd1-89af-83b8c33028d2@googlegroups.com>
 <5fc7c1ce-120b-1748-04ee-e7220ffe6b5e@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrhOTTwFdxRfk_SLp9jktMtXUs3zYEaOCyZeJaUxs=5FA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 9:31 AM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>> 3.2. If the carry bit from S1 is 1, the MSB of S1 and LSB of S0 are
>> inverted.
>> Points 2 and 3 are executed for all bytes, included in the calculation of
>> the CRC - from the first byte after BEG up to and including byte END.
>> 4. TR is loaded with 0 and point 3 is executed
>> 5. TR is loaded with 0 and point 3 is executed
>> 6. Byte S1 is transmitted
>> 7. Byte S0 is transmitted
>>
> [snip]
> Step 3 is a little unclear.
>
> Step 3.1 says to shift TR, but step 3.2 says to check the carry bit after
> shifting S1, which is zero initially, therefore the carry bit will be clear,
> therefore S1 and S0 won't have any bits inverted and will stay zero.
>

I think probably "if the carry bit from TR is 1" would make this all
make sense. Otherwise TR, which is the data payload, is completely
ignored.

ChrisA


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Mar 15 20:49:18 2017
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 17:49:18 -0700
Subject: SimpleHTTPServer and CgiHTTPServer in practice
Message-ID: <87bmt2nj01.fsf@nightsong.com>

Sometimes I have a short term requirement to serve some data by http, so
I've been using those modules rather than setting up a full featured web
server.  Some Python users have told me that isn't a good idea, but
without any specifics.

Are there any known problems with them such as security bugs, or in the
py3 equivalents (server module)?  I haven't had issues so far because
it's just been ad hoc stuff for known clients, but they are much simpler
to set up than something like Apache, so I don't see why not to make
more use of them for low-traffic pages.  Any thoughts/stories/cautions
would be appreciated.

Thanks



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Mar 15 21:36:38 2017
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 01:36:38 +0000
Subject: crc method for a serial driver for fiscal cash register
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrhOTTwFdxRfk_SLp9jktMtXUs3zYEaOCyZeJaUxs=5FA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <16c6144f-923a-4dd1-89af-83b8c33028d2@googlegroups.com>
 <5fc7c1ce-120b-1748-04ee-e7220ffe6b5e@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <CAPTjJmrhOTTwFdxRfk_SLp9jktMtXUs3zYEaOCyZeJaUxs=5FA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <94036eed-e8b5-d9ab-3ae2-1e5b7b5728c0@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2017-03-16 00:08, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 9:31 AM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>>> 3.2. If the carry bit from S1 is 1, the MSB of S1 and LSB of S0 are
>>> inverted.
>>> Points 2 and 3 are executed for all bytes, included in the calculation of
>>> the CRC - from the first byte after BEG up to and including byte END.
>>> 4. TR is loaded with 0 and point 3 is executed
>>> 5. TR is loaded with 0 and point 3 is executed
>>> 6. Byte S1 is transmitted
>>> 7. Byte S0 is transmitted
>>>
>> [snip]
>> Step 3 is a little unclear.
>>
>> Step 3.1 says to shift TR, but step 3.2 says to check the carry bit after
>> shifting S1, which is zero initially, therefore the carry bit will be clear,
>> therefore S1 and S0 won't have any bits inverted and will stay zero.
>>
>
> I think probably "if the carry bit from TR is 1" would make this all
> make sense. Otherwise TR, which is the data payload, is completely
> ignored.
>
Hence the need for examples.



From python at deborahswanson.net  Wed Mar 15 22:10:17 2017
From: python at deborahswanson.net (Deborah Swanson)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 19:10:17 -0700
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <d7e3e069-d30c-079b-500f-4567e4b05a6e@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <011801d29dfa$755d4f80$27b23dae@sambora>

MRAB wrote, on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 3:19 PM
> 
> On 2017-03-15 22:03, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> > Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> >> You probably can't make a whale fly just by changing the class to 
> >> bird. It will need wings, and feathers, at the very least.
> >
> > Some things succeed in flying with neither wings nor feathers. 
> > Helicopters, for example.
> >
> Could you argue that the blades were a kind of wing? After all, they 
> rely on the same principle of moving through the air to produce lift.
> 
> Balloons, on the other hand, ... :-)

or kites...  ;)



From jobmattcon at gmail.com  Thu Mar 16 00:40:03 2017
From: jobmattcon at gmail.com (Ho Yeung Lee)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 21:40:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to embed non-tkinter VLC player into grid of tkinter with python?
Message-ID: <a28e12a3-432a-4bcb-a7d4-e6963d2e0e4e@googlegroups.com>

we have many TV that would like to be monitored,

how to embed non-tkinter VLC player into grid of tkinter with python?

below code can embeded xterm but not for VLC player


import vlc
from Tkinter import *
import os

root = Tk()
for r in range(2):
    for c in range(1):
        termf = Frame(root, height=100, width=200)
        termf.pack(fill=BOTH, expand=YES)
        wid = termf.winfo_id()
        termf.grid(row=r,column=c)
        p=vlc.MediaPlayer('file:///home/martin/Downloads/autoweb.mp4')
        p.get_tk_widget().grid(row=r,column=c)
        p.play()
        #os.system('xterm -into %d -geometry 40x20 -sb &' % wid)
        os.system('vlc --no-fullscreen "file:///home/martin/Downloads/autoweb.mp4" -into %d -geometry 100x200 -sb &' % wid)

root.mainloop()


From jobmattcon at gmail.com  Thu Mar 16 01:16:28 2017
From: jobmattcon at gmail.com (Ho Yeung Lee)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 22:16:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to embed non-tkinter VLC player into grid of tkinter with
 python?
In-Reply-To: <a28e12a3-432a-4bcb-a7d4-e6963d2e0e4e@googlegroups.com>
References: <a28e12a3-432a-4bcb-a7d4-e6963d2e0e4e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e2ae165a-6c45-4827-b40e-a6994a3c6de5@googlegroups.com>

martin at ubuntu:~/Downloads/python-vlc/examples$ xdg-screensaver: Window 0x09000000 does not exist

error when run after inherit a frame which put in a grid

import vlc
from Tkinter import *
import os

import Tkinter as tk

class SampleApp(tk.Frame):
    def __init__(self, parent, title=None):
        #def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
        #tk.Tk.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)        
        tk.Frame.__init__(self, parent)
        self.parent = parent
        self.parent.title("video")
        p=vlc.MediaPlayer('file:///home/martin/Downloads/autoweb.mp4')
        p.play()
        self.register()
        #self.grid(row=1,column=1)

root = Tk()
for r in range(5):
    for c in range(5):
        termf = Frame(root, height=200, width=300)
        termf.pack(fill=BOTH, expand=YES)
        wid = termf.winfo_id()
        #player = Player()
        SampleApp(root, title="tkinter vlc").grid(row=r,column=c)
        #os.system('xterm -into %d -geometry 40x20 -sb &' % wid)
        #os.system('vlc --no-fullscreen "file:///home/martin/Downloads/autoweb.mp4" -into %d -geometry 100x200 -sb &' % wid)

root.mainloop()


On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 12:40:16 PM UTC+8, Ho Yeung Lee wrote:
> we have many TV that would like to be monitored,
> 
> how to embed non-tkinter VLC player into grid of tkinter with python?
> 
> below code can embeded xterm but not for VLC player
> 
> 
> import vlc
> from Tkinter import *
> import os
> 
> root = Tk()
> for r in range(2):
>     for c in range(1):
>         termf = Frame(root, height=100, width=200)
>         termf.pack(fill=BOTH, expand=YES)
>         wid = termf.winfo_id()
>         termf.grid(row=r,column=c)
>         p=vlc.MediaPlayer('file:///home/martin/Downloads/autoweb.mp4')
>         p.get_tk_widget().grid(row=r,column=c)
>         p.play()
>         #os.system('xterm -into %d -geometry 40x20 -sb &' % wid)
>         os.system('vlc --no-fullscreen "file:///home/martin/Downloads/autoweb.mp4" -into %d -geometry 100x200 -sb &' % wid)
> 
> root.mainloop()



From jobmattcon at gmail.com  Thu Mar 16 01:40:17 2017
From: jobmattcon at gmail.com (Ho Yeung Lee)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 22:40:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to embed non-tkinter VLC player into grid of tkinter with
 python?
In-Reply-To: <e2ae165a-6c45-4827-b40e-a6994a3c6de5@googlegroups.com>
References: <a28e12a3-432a-4bcb-a7d4-e6963d2e0e4e@googlegroups.com>
 <e2ae165a-6c45-4827-b40e-a6994a3c6de5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0d2806dc-78bb-4855-bdf1-b26993985210@googlegroups.com>

after several trial, still can not put the player into grid

import vlc
from Tkinter import *
import os
import sys
import ttk

import Tkinter as tk

class SampleApp(tk.Frame):
    def __init__(self, parent, title=None):
        #def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
        #tk.Tk.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)        
        tk.Frame.__init__(self, parent)
        self.parent = parent
        self.parent.title("video")
        self.player = None
        self.Instance = vlc.Instance('--no-audio')
        self.player = self.Instance.media_player_new()
        #self.player.set_xwindow(ttk.Frame(self.parent).winfo_id())
        p=self.Instance.media_player_new()
        m=self.Instance.media_new('file:///home/martin/Downloads/autoweb.mp4')
        p.set_media(m)
        p.play()
        #self.videopanel = 
        #p=vlc.MediaPlayer('file:///home/martin/Downloads/autoweb.mp4')
        #p.play()
        self.register(self, parent)
        #self.player.grid(row=1,column=1)
    
    #def GetHandle(self):
        #return self.videopanel.winfo_id()

root = Tk()
for r in range(2):
    for c in range(1):
        termf = Frame(root, height=200, width=300)
        termf.pack(fill=BOTH, expand=YES)
        wid = termf.winfo_id()
        #player = Player()
        SampleApp(root, title="tkinter vlc").grid(row=r,column=c)
        #os.system('xterm -into %d -geometry 40x20 -sb &' % wid)
        #os.system('vlc --no-fullscreen "file:///home/martin/Downloads/autoweb.mp4" -into %d -geometry 100x200 -sb &' % wid)

root.mainloop()


On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 1:16:41 PM UTC+8, Ho Yeung Lee wrote:
> martin at ubuntu:~/Downloads/python-vlc/examples$ xdg-screensaver: Window 0x09000000 does not exist
> 
> error when run after inherit a frame which put in a grid
> 
> import vlc
> from Tkinter import *
> import os
> 
> import Tkinter as tk
> 
> class SampleApp(tk.Frame):
>     def __init__(self, parent, title=None):
>         #def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
>         #tk.Tk.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)        
>         tk.Frame.__init__(self, parent)
>         self.parent = parent
>         self.parent.title("video")
>         p=vlc.MediaPlayer('file:///home/martin/Downloads/autoweb.mp4')
>         p.play()
>         self.register()
>         #self.grid(row=1,column=1)
> 
> root = Tk()
> for r in range(5):
>     for c in range(5):
>         termf = Frame(root, height=200, width=300)
>         termf.pack(fill=BOTH, expand=YES)
>         wid = termf.winfo_id()
>         #player = Player()
>         SampleApp(root, title="tkinter vlc").grid(row=r,column=c)
>         #os.system('xterm -into %d -geometry 40x20 -sb &' % wid)
>         #os.system('vlc --no-fullscreen "file:///home/martin/Downloads/autoweb.mp4" -into %d -geometry 100x200 -sb &' % wid)
> 
> root.mainloop()
> 
> 
> On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 12:40:16 PM UTC+8, Ho Yeung Lee wrote:
> > we have many TV that would like to be monitored,
> > 
> > how to embed non-tkinter VLC player into grid of tkinter with python?
> > 
> > below code can embeded xterm but not for VLC player
> > 
> > 
> > import vlc
> > from Tkinter import *
> > import os
> > 
> > root = Tk()
> > for r in range(2):
> >     for c in range(1):
> >         termf = Frame(root, height=100, width=200)
> >         termf.pack(fill=BOTH, expand=YES)
> >         wid = termf.winfo_id()
> >         termf.grid(row=r,column=c)
> >         p=vlc.MediaPlayer('file:///home/martin/Downloads/autoweb.mp4')
> >         p.get_tk_widget().grid(row=r,column=c)
> >         p.play()
> >         #os.system('xterm -into %d -geometry 40x20 -sb &' % wid)
> >         os.system('vlc --no-fullscreen "file:///home/martin/Downloads/autoweb.mp4" -into %d -geometry 100x200 -sb &' % wid)
> > 
> > root.mainloop()



From auriocus at gmx.de  Thu Mar 16 03:56:25 2017
From: auriocus at gmx.de (Christian Gollwitzer)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:56:25 +0100
Subject: how to embed non-tkinter VLC player into grid of tkinter with
 python?
In-Reply-To: <a28e12a3-432a-4bcb-a7d4-e6963d2e0e4e@googlegroups.com>
References: <a28e12a3-432a-4bcb-a7d4-e6963d2e0e4e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <oadg9u$7l2$1@dont-email.me>

Am 16.03.17 um 05:40 schrieb Ho Yeung Lee:
> we have many TV that would like to be monitored,
>
> how to embed non-tkinter VLC player into grid of tkinter with python?
>
> below code can embeded xterm but not for VLC player
>
>
> import vlc
> from Tkinter import *
> import os
>
> root = Tk()
> for r in range(2):
>     for c in range(1):
>         termf = Frame(root, height=100, width=200)
>         termf.pack(fill=BOTH, expand=YES)
>         wid = termf.winfo_id()
>         termf.grid(row=r,column=c)
>         p=vlc.MediaPlayer('file:///home/martin/Downloads/autoweb.mp4')
>         p.get_tk_widget().grid(row=r,column=c)
>         p.play()
>         #os.system('xterm -into %d -geometry 40x20 -sb &' % wid)
>         os.system('vlc --no-fullscreen "file:///home/martin/Downloads/autoweb.mp4" -into %d -geometry 100x200 -sb &' % wid)

Two questions:
1) Does VLC support the -into option? I know that mplayer has such an 
option, but it is called -wid, for instance

2) Maybe the window needs to be mapped before? If so, insert a 
root.update() after the grid and before you try to embed.

3) It seems you try to instantiate VLC through two different mechanisms, 
via the python package vlc and via an external call to os.system.

	Christian



From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Mar 16 04:01:55 2017
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 21:01:55 +1300
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.69.1489616356.2614.python-list@python.org>
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <eits2eF5aj5U1@mid.individual.net>
 <d7e3e069-d30c-079b-500f-4567e4b05a6e@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.69.1489616356.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eiuv3jFbavoU1@mid.individual.net>

MRAB wrote:
> Could you argue that the blades were a kind of wing? After all, they 
> rely on the same principle of moving through the air to produce lift.
> 
> Balloons, on the other hand, ... :-)

Also rockets.

-- 
Greg


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Mar 16 04:12:16 2017
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 21:12:16 +1300
Subject: The ternaery operator
In-Reply-To: <ternary-20170316040400@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
References: <ternary-20170316040400@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <eiuvn2Fbg2vU1@mid.individual.net>

Stefan Ram wrote:

> a if c else b
> 
>   Guido has invented something totally new. Why?

It's arguably closer to the way you would say such a
thing in English.

Consider the following sentences:

"I wear my red shirt if it's Tuesday, else my green one."

"I wear if it's Tuesday my red shirt, else my green one."

Which one sounds more natural?

-- 
Greg


From auriocus at gmx.de  Thu Mar 16 04:12:18 2017
From: auriocus at gmx.de (Christian Gollwitzer)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 09:12:18 +0100
Subject: The ternaery operator
In-Reply-To: <ternary-20170316040400@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
References: <ternary-20170316040400@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <oadh7m$9k8$1@dont-email.me>

Am 16.03.17 um 04:12 schrieb Stefan Ram:
>   The syntax
>
> a if c else b
>
>   looks as if Guido made it intentionally ugly so that it will
>   not be used?
>  [...]

>   . But now Guido has invented something totally new. Why?

The rationale can be read in PEP 308:
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0308/

This should be the first place to go if you want to learn about Python 
language decisions. Asking here will just start the flame fire again.

	Christian


From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Thu Mar 16 05:15:25 2017
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 09:15:25 GMT
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <eits2eF5aj5U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <NIsyA.95856$iJ3.40641@fx15.am4>

On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:03:56 +1300, Gregory Ewing wrote:

> Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> You probably can't make a whale fly just by changing the class to bird.
>> It will need wings, and feathers, at the very least.
> 
> Some things succeed in flying with neither wings nor feathers.
> Helicopters, for example.

helicopters DO have wings.

that is why they are technical referred to as ROTARY WING Aircraft ;-)



-- 
Boy, that crayon sure did hurt!


From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Thu Mar 16 05:17:20 2017
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 09:17:20 GMT
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
References: <d7e3e069-d30c-079b-500f-4567e4b05a6e@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <011801d29dfa$755d4f80$27b23dae@sambora>
 <mailman.74.1489633661.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <AKsyA.95857$iJ3.94620@fx15.am4>

On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 19:10:17 -0700, Deborah Swanson wrote:

> MRAB wrote, on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 3:19 PM
>> 
>> On 2017-03-15 22:03, Gregory Ewing wrote:
>> > Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> >> You probably can't make a whale fly just by changing the class to
>> >> bird. It will need wings, and feathers, at the very least.
>> >
>> > Some things succeed in flying with neither wings nor feathers.
>> > Helicopters, for example.
>> >
>> Could you argue that the blades were a kind of wing? After all, they
>> rely on the same principle of moving through the air to produce lift.
>> 
>> Balloons, on the other hand, ... :-)
> 
> or kites...  ;)

no kites are a wing, although they are dependant on the string to hold 
them up.




-- 
Too many people are thinking of security instead of opportunity.  They 
seem
more afraid of life than death.
		-- James F. Byrnes


From lutz.horn at posteo.de  Thu Mar 16 07:09:16 2017
From: lutz.horn at posteo.de (Lutz Horn)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 12:09:16 +0100
Subject: SimpleHTTPServer and CgiHTTPServer in practice
In-Reply-To: <87bmt2nj01.fsf@nightsong.com>
References: <87bmt2nj01.fsf@nightsong.com>
Message-ID: <3944b2b755d208e1e1e396bf221fada7@posteo.de>

> Some Python users have told me that isn't a good idea, but
> without any specifics.

We don't know *why* those people told you not to use these modules. We 
also don't know your use case. So it is very hard to advise you.

Lutz



From steve+python at pearwood.info  Thu Mar 16 08:06:48 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 23:06:48 +1100
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <eits2eF5aj5U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <58ca7fdb$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 09:03 am, Gregory Ewing wrote:

> Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> You probably can't make a whale fly just by changing the class to bird.
>> It will need wings, and feathers, at the very least.
> 
> Some things succeed in flying with neither wings nor feathers.
> Helicopters, for example.

For some definition of "no wings".

But regardless of rockets, balloons, helicopters, Boeing 747s and Dr
Strange's mystical Cloak Of Levitation, *birds* require wings and feathers
to fly. If you just paint "BIRD" on the side of a whale, it won't get off
the ground, and if you do manage to get it airborne (via a catapult,
perhaps) it will just come down with a rather large splat.

The point is that dynamically swapping the class of an existing instance at
runtime is *not* just a way of doing duck-typing. It really does matter if
your duck flies by flapping feathered wings or by blasting an exhaust of
hot gasses out of its rear end at high speed.

With duck-typing, you don't care whether you have a duck or a goose, so long
as they both can fly: you don't care *how* it flies, so long as it does,
and even a rocket-propelled balloon will be fine.

But when you dynamically swap out __class__ (I think Objective-C "swizzling"
is conceptually equivalent, so I'll call it by that word) you have to care
about the implementation. The whole point of swizzling is that it allows
you to swap out one implementation ("run forward and flap your wings") with
another implementation ("light the blue touch paper"). But if you do that,
you have to care about implementation details. There's no point in setting
your swizzled fly() method to that of Rocket if your instance doesn't have
blue touch paper to light.

With duck-typing, making the methods work isn't your responsibility. But
when you swizzle, you are responsible for making sure that the instance
provides whatever the methods need to work.

A very old but good example of Python swizzling is here:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/68429-ring-buffer/



-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From robin at reportlab.com  Thu Mar 16 09:45:58 2017
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 13:45:58 +0000
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1d1d62dc-773b-a8b2-2719-6c12671244c1@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

On 15/03/2017 13:53, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> You probably can't make a whale fly just by changing the class to bird. It
> will need wings, and feathers, at the very least.

the whale in the Hitchhiker's Guide found itself flying without feathers or wings

-- 
Robin Becker



From tony at vanderhoff.org  Thu Mar 16 09:52:56 2017
From: tony at vanderhoff.org (Tony van der Hoff)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 13:52:56 +0000
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <1d1d62dc-773b-a8b2-2719-6c12671244c1@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1d1d62dc-773b-a8b2-2719-6c12671244c1@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9f3711e7-80de-3990-1307-e654a0fa6849@vanderhoff.org>

On 16/03/17 13:45, Robin Becker wrote:
> On 15/03/2017 13:53, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> You probably can't make a whale fly just by changing the class to
>> bird. It
>> will need wings, and feathers, at the very least.
>
> the whale in the Hitchhiker's Guide found itself flying without feathers
> or wings
>
It didn't so much fly, as plummet.

-- 
Tony van der Hoff        | mailto:tony at vanderhoff.org
Buckinghamshire, England |


From darcy at VybeNetworks.com  Thu Mar 16 10:03:17 2017
From: darcy at VybeNetworks.com (D'Arcy Cain)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:03:17 -0400
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <1d1d62dc-773b-a8b2-2719-6c12671244c1@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1d1d62dc-773b-a8b2-2719-6c12671244c1@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <29e0195f-eb12-24b8-80db-ed1cf03231db@VybeNetworks.com>

On 2017-03-16 09:45 AM, Robin Becker wrote:
> On 15/03/2017 13:53, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> You probably can't make a whale fly just by changing the class to
>> bird. It
>> will need wings, and feathers, at the very least.
>
> the whale in the Hitchhiker's Guide found itself flying without feathers
> or wings

Falling is not the same as flying unless you accidentally miss the ground.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain
Vybe Networks Inc.
http://www.VybeNetworks.com/
IM:darcy at Vex.Net VoIP: sip:darcy at VybeNetworks.com


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Thu Mar 16 10:04:19 2017
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 14:04:19 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1d1d62dc-773b-a8b2-2719-6c12671244c1@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <mailman.76.1489671982.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnocl70f.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>

On 2017-03-16, Robin Becker <robin at reportlab.com> wrote:
> On 15/03/2017 13:53, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> You probably can't make a whale fly just by changing the class to bird. It
>> will need wings, and feathers, at the very least.
>
> the whale in the Hitchhiker's Guide found itself flying without
> feathers or wings

Well, only if you redefine "flying" to include "accelerating to
terminal velocity straight downwards under the force of gravity"...


From robin at reportlab.com  Thu Mar 16 10:21:53 2017
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 14:21:53 +0000
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <29e0195f-eb12-24b8-80db-ed1cf03231db@VybeNetworks.com>
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1d1d62dc-773b-a8b2-2719-6c12671244c1@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <29e0195f-eb12-24b8-80db-ed1cf03231db@VybeNetworks.com>
Message-ID: <03b84ea9-9b35-232f-1021-a347f705394e@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

On 16/03/2017 14:03, D'Arcy Cain wrote:
> On 2017-03-16 09:45 AM, Robin Becker wrote:
>> On 15/03/2017 13:53, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>>> You probably can't make a whale fly just by changing the class to
>>> bird. It
>>> will need wings, and feathers, at the very least.
>>
>> the whale in the Hitchhiker's Guide found itself flying without feathers
>> or wings
>
> Falling is not the same as flying unless you accidentally miss the ground.
>
well in English an arrow flies as well as time, the whale was very interested in 
the approaching ground and perhaps forgot to conjure up virtual wings or 
rockets. In any case satellites miss the ground, but even their motion cannot be 
classed as flying with wings so I think this discussion has become irrelevant.
-- 
Robin Becker



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Mar 16 10:31:22 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 01:31:22 +1100
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <03b84ea9-9b35-232f-1021-a347f705394e@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1d1d62dc-773b-a8b2-2719-6c12671244c1@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <29e0195f-eb12-24b8-80db-ed1cf03231db@VybeNetworks.com>
 <03b84ea9-9b35-232f-1021-a347f705394e@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpbQj7r=megfWWXoC5O=wUGC_yvGGn8q6es2CfnVEyrAA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 1:21 AM, Robin Becker <robin at reportlab.com> wrote:
>> Falling is not the same as flying unless you accidentally miss the ground.
>>
> well in English an arrow flies as well as time, the whale was very
> interested in the approaching ground and perhaps forgot to conjure up
> virtual wings or rockets. In any case satellites miss the ground, but even
> their motion cannot be classed as flying with wings so I think this
> discussion has become irrelevant.

I just asked my father, and he believes that a satellite DOES fly, on
the basis that it is perpetually falling and forever missing the
ground.

ChrisA


From toby at tobiah.org  Thu Mar 16 10:55:05 2017
From: toby at tobiah.org (Tobiah)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 07:55:05 -0700
Subject: The ternaery operator
References: <ternary-20170316040400@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <eiuvn2Fbg2vU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <oae909$8nb$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On 03/16/2017 01:12 AM, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Stefan Ram wrote:
> 
>> a if c else b
>>
>>   Guido has invented something totally new. Why?
> 
> It's arguably closer to the way you would say such a
> thing in English.
> 
> Consider the following sentences:
> 
> "I wear my red shirt if it's Tuesday, else my green one."
> 
> "I wear if it's Tuesday my red shirt, else my green one."
> 
> Which one sounds more natural?
> 

To be fair, the proper comparison would be:
	
	If it's Tuesday, I wear my red shirt, else my green one.



I think it would be nice to have a way of getting the 'true'
value as the return with an optional value if false.  The desire
comes about when the thing I'm comparing is an element of a collection:

        drugs['choice'] if drugs['choice'] else 'pot'

Then I'm tempted to do:

	chosen = drugs['choice']
	chosen if chosen else 'pot'

I sometimes feel like doing:

	drugs['choice'] else 'pot'


Tobiah




From toby at tobiah.org  Thu Mar 16 11:07:19 2017
From: toby at tobiah.org (Tobiah)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 08:07:19 -0700
Subject: The ternaery operator
References: <ternary-20170316040400@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <eiuvn2Fbg2vU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <oae9n6$9ou$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On 03/16/2017 01:12 AM, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Stefan Ram wrote:
> 
>> a if c else b
>>
>>   Guido has invented something totally new. Why?
> 
> It's arguably closer to the way you would say such a
> thing in English.
> 
> Consider the following sentences:
> 
> "I wear my red shirt if it's Tuesday, else my green one."
> 
> "I wear if it's Tuesday my red shirt, else my green one."
> 
> Which one sounds more natural?
> 

Actually, I see where now you are coming from:

  I wear (if a then b else c)

as opposed to

  I wear (b if a else c)


From mail at williammayor.co.uk  Thu Mar 16 11:11:49 2017
From: mail at williammayor.co.uk (William Mayor)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 15:11:49 +0000
Subject: The ternaery operator
In-Reply-To: <oae909$8nb$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <ternary-20170316040400@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <eiuvn2Fbg2vU1@mid.individual.net> <oae909$8nb$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <A57B68B3-916C-401C-A8F9-06129DFED7BF@williammayor.co.uk>

> 
> I think it would be nice to have a way of getting the 'true'
> value as the return with an optional value if false.  The desire
> comes about when the thing I'm comparing is an element of a collection:
> 
>        drugs['choice'] if drugs['choice'] else 'pot'
> 
> Then I'm tempted to do:
> 
> 	chosen = drugs['choice']
> 	chosen if chosen else 'pot'
> 
> I sometimes feel like doing:
> 
> 	drugs['choice'] else 'pot'
> 

For the case where the element in the collection exists, but might be falsey you could do:

	drugs[?choice?] or ?pot'

The ternary operator would be useful for something like:

	drugs[?choice?] if is_good_for_you(drugs[?choice?]) else ?nice cup of tea?

Most of the time I avoid the ternary stuff though, I don?t think it?s easy to read, no matter what language you?re writing in.



From cl at isbd.net  Thu Mar 16 11:21:36 2017
From: cl at isbd.net (Chris Green)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 15:21:36 +0000
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1d1d62dc-773b-a8b2-2719-6c12671244c1@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <29e0195f-eb12-24b8-80db-ed1cf03231db@VybeNetworks.com>
 <03b84ea9-9b35-232f-1021-a347f705394e@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <mailman.79.1489674129.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <05nqpd-iua.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

Robin Becker <robin at reportlab.com> wrote:
> On 16/03/2017 14:03, D'Arcy Cain wrote:
> > On 2017-03-16 09:45 AM, Robin Becker wrote:
> >> On 15/03/2017 13:53, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> >>> You probably can't make a whale fly just by changing the class to
> >>> bird. It
> >>> will need wings, and feathers, at the very least.
> >>
> >> the whale in the Hitchhiker's Guide found itself flying without feathers
> >> or wings
> >
> > Falling is not the same as flying unless you accidentally miss the ground.
> >
> well in English an arrow flies as well as time, the whale was very interested in 
> the approaching ground and perhaps forgot to conjure up virtual wings or 
> rockets. In any case satellites miss the ground, but even their motion cannot be 
> classed as flying with wings so I think this discussion has become irrelevant.

Time flies like an arrow
Fruit flies like a banana

-- 
Chris Green
?


From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Thu Mar 16 11:50:28 2017
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 15:50:28 GMT
Subject: The ternaery operator
References: <ternary-20170316040400@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <8vyyA.225100$nT1.37099@fx44.am4>

On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:12:32 +0000, Stefan Ram wrote:

> The syntax
> 
> a if c else b
> 
>   looks as if Guido made it intentionally ugly so that it will not be
>   used?
> 
>   Being able to detect patterns that are in widespread use among
>   programming languages enhances readability.
> 
>   IIRC, in Algol, there was an expression
> 
> if c then a else b
> 
>   . IIRC, most popular languages today use
> 
> c ? a : b
> 
>   . But now Guido has invented something totally new. Why?
> 
>   Perl has something like it, the "expression modifier".
>   Did Guido like /this/ so much, that he wanted to imitate it?

>>>import this

i think you will find at least 1 line that explains everything.




-- 
We were so poor that we thought new clothes meant someone had died.


From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Thu Mar 16 11:51:25 2017
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 15:51:25 GMT
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1d1d62dc-773b-a8b2-2719-6c12671244c1@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <mailman.76.1489671982.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnocl70f.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <1wyyA.225138$nT1.79388@fx44.am4>

On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 14:04:19 +0000, Jon Ribbens wrote:

> On 2017-03-16, Robin Becker <robin at reportlab.com> wrote:
>> On 15/03/2017 13:53, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>>> You probably can't make a whale fly just by changing the class to
>>> bird. It will need wings, and feathers, at the very least.
>>
>> the whale in the Hitchhiker's Guide found itself flying without
>> feathers or wings
> 
> Well, only if you redefine "flying" to include "accelerating to terminal
> velocity straight downwards under the force of gravity"...

Arthur himself was a regular flyer.




-- 
genius, n.:
	Person clever enough to be born in the right place at the right
	time of the right sex and to follow up this advantage by saying
	all the right things to all the right people.


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Thu Mar 16 11:55:56 2017
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 17:55:56 +0200
Subject: The ternaery operator
References: <ternary-20170316040400@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <eiuvn2Fbg2vU1@mid.individual.net> <oae909$8nb$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <A57B68B3-916C-401C-A8F9-06129DFED7BF@williammayor.co.uk>
 <mailman.82.1489677116.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lf5mvclz04z.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

William Mayor writes:

>> I think it would be nice to have a way of getting the 'true' value as
>> the return with an optional value if false.  The desire comes about
>> when the thing I'm comparing is an element of a collection:
>> 
>>        drugs['choice'] if drugs['choice'] else 'pot'
>> 
>> Then I'm tempted to do:
>> 
>> 	chosen = drugs['choice']
>> 	chosen if chosen else 'pot'
>> 
>> I sometimes feel like doing:
>> 
>> 	drugs['choice'] else 'pot'
>> 
>
> For the case where the element in the collection exists, but might be
> falsey you could do:
>
> 	drugs[?choice?] or ?pot'

drugs.get('choice') or 'pot'

drugs.get('choice', 'pot')

[snip]


From sjmsoft at gmail.com  Thu Mar 16 14:22:27 2017
From: sjmsoft at gmail.com (sjmsoft at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:22:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SimpleHTTPServer and CgiHTTPServer in practice
In-Reply-To: <87bmt2nj01.fsf@nightsong.com>
References: <87bmt2nj01.fsf@nightsong.com>
Message-ID: <6a4428ea-a3bf-4f3a-bcb6-12eb7e24c167@googlegroups.com>

For a couple of years we've used SimpleHTTPServer to serve pages to internal users at low volumes, and we find it to be reliable and trivial to set up.  We have not subjected it to a rigorous security assessment.

HTH,
  Steve J. Martin


From chloe.anna.talbot at gmail.com  Thu Mar 16 14:33:28 2017
From: chloe.anna.talbot at gmail.com (chloe.anna.talbot at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:33:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Doing it Wrong: python-ldap and delete operations using ldifWriter
Message-ID: <c0c8bc54-771b-4e7a-afd1-160cb8844af1@googlegroups.com>

I want to do (what I thought) would be quite a simple thing. I have an LDAP entry that looks like this(in LDIF format):

dn: cn=myorg,ou=teams,ou=groups,o=company,c=us
cn: myorg
objectClass: top
objectClass: CompanyTeams
objectClass: groupOfUniqueNames
owner: cn=john,ou=people,o=company,c=us
uniqueMember: cn=bob,ou=people,o=company,c=us
uniqueMember: cn=bill,ou=people,o=company,c=us
uniqueMember: cn=carol,ou=people,o=company,c=us
uniqueMember: cn=frank,ou=people,o=company,c=us
uniqueMember: cn=alice,ou=people,o=company,c=us

In my code, I have all these entries represented as dicts. I'm using Python's LDIF writer to write these entries out to proper LDIF. Exporting the whole thing is easy:

def dump_ldif(self):
    writer = LDIFWriter(open('entrybackup.ldif', 'wb'))
       writer.unparse(cn=myorg, self.all_the_teams.get_teamstr_by_name('{'objectClass': ['top', 'CompanyTeams', 'groupOfUniqueNames']'owner': ['cn=john,ou=people,o=company,c=us'], 'uniqueMember': ['uniqueMember: cn=bob,ou=people,o=company,c=us','uniqueMember: cn=bill,ou=people,o=company,c=us','uniqueMember: cn=carol,ou=people,o=company,c=us','uniqueMember: cn=frank,ou=people,o=company,c=us','uniqueMember: cn=alice,ou=people,o=company,c=us'], 'cn': ['myorg']}')

But how do you have LDIF output that uses delete/modify operators? I have a list of uniqueMember that I want to go away:

['cn=bob,ou=people,o=company,c=us', 'cn=bill,ou=people,o=company,c=us']

And (I believe) this is the end goal in LDIF format, pulling from my list:

dn: cn=myorg,ou=teams,ou=groups,o=company,c=us
changetype: modify
delete: uniqueMember
uniqueMember: cn=bob,ou=people,o=company,c=us
uniqueMember: cn=bill,ou=people,o=company,c=us

Is there not some simple way to do this with Python(2.7)? Starting to feel crazy. Note: I could just do the text output/manipulation, but I want to stick with LDIFWriter to write this output. I just want find the syntax to output 'delete' LDIF directives.


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Mar 16 17:03:04 2017
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 10:03:04 +1300
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.80.1489674690.2614.python-list@python.org>
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1d1d62dc-773b-a8b2-2719-6c12671244c1@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <29e0195f-eb12-24b8-80db-ed1cf03231db@VybeNetworks.com>
 <03b84ea9-9b35-232f-1021-a347f705394e@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmpbQj7r=megfWWXoC5O=wUGC_yvGGn8q6es2CfnVEyrAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.80.1489674690.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ej0cs8Fkl9cU1@mid.individual.net>

Chris Angelico wrote:
> I just asked my father, and he believes that a satellite DOES fly, on
> the basis that it is perpetually falling and forever missing the
> ground.

Also, NASA people talk about "flying" the ISS, so it seems your
father is in good company.

-- 
Greg


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Mar 16 17:13:41 2017
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 10:13:41 +1300
Subject: The ternaery operator
In-Reply-To: <oae909$8nb$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <ternary-20170316040400@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <eiuvn2Fbg2vU1@mid.individual.net> <oae909$8nb$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <ej0dg6Fkr74U1@mid.individual.net>

Tobiah wrote:
> To be fair, the proper comparison would be:
> 	
> 	If it's Tuesday, I wear my red shirt, else my green one.

The Python analog of that would be

    if it_is_tuesday:
       wear(red_shirt)
    else:
       wear(green_shirt)

i.e. a statement rather than an expression. We're looking
for an English analog of a conditional expression:

    wear(red_shirt if it_is_tuesday else green_shirt)

For that, we need a conditional noun phrase, and the
only way to get one of those in English without sounding
like a non-native speaker is to put the condition in
the middle.

-- 
Greg


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Mar 16 20:28:28 2017
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 17:28:28 -0700
Subject: SimpleHTTPServer and CgiHTTPServer in practice
References: <87bmt2nj01.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <3944b2b755d208e1e1e396bf221fada7@posteo.de>
 <mailman.75.1489663904.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87inn8eogj.fsf@nightsong.com>

Lutz Horn <lutz.horn at posteo.de> writes:
> We don't know *why* those people told you not to use these modules. We
> also don't know your use case. So it is very hard to advise you.

The use case is to have a very easily set up way to serve basic pages
and files, without a lot of configuration files and other
infrastructure.  The main reason not to use it would be security holes
if there are some.  I haven't examined the code carefully but didn't see
obvious issues at a quick glanace.  I frankly worry more about large C
programs than Python programs.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Mar 16 20:29:29 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 11:29:29 +1100
Subject: The ternaery operator
In-Reply-To: <ternary-20170317003737@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
References: <ternary-20170316040400@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <eiuvn2Fbg2vU1@mid.individual.net> <oae909$8nb$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <ej0dg6Fkr74U1@mid.individual.net>
 <ternary-20170317003737@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqsJuAYbMTLE4iZ1_Qq7tL3uR-O5oQifpURvY5M9BwvMw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 10:45 AM, Stefan Ram <ram at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz> writes:
>>wear(red_shirt if it_is_tuesday else green_shirt)
>
>   Operators in Python usually are written with special
>   symbols, not with words, so a word usually indicates,
>   "This is not an operator.".
>

Non-operators like "is [not]", "[not] in", "and", "or", and so on?

ChrisA


From python at deborahswanson.net  Thu Mar 16 22:07:03 2017
From: python at deborahswanson.net (Deborah Swanson)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 19:07:03 -0700
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <58ca7fdb$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <012d01d29ec3$2c3a5f40$27b23dae@sambora>

Steve D'Aprano wrote,on March 16, 2017 5:07 AM
> 
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 09:03 am, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> 
> > Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> >> You probably can't make a whale fly just by changing the class to 
> >> bird. It will need wings, and feathers, at the very least.
> > 
> > Some things succeed in flying with neither wings nor feathers. 
> > Helicopters, for example.
> 
> For some definition of "no wings".
> 
> But regardless of rockets, balloons, helicopters, Boeing 747s 
> and Dr Strange's mystical Cloak Of Levitation, *birds* 
> require wings and feathers to fly. If you just paint "BIRD" 
> on the side of a whale, it won't get off the ground, and if 
> you do manage to get it airborne (via a catapult,
> perhaps) it will just come down with a rather large splat.
> 
> The point is that dynamically swapping the class of an 
> existing instance at runtime is *not* just a way of doing 
> duck-typing. It really does matter if your duck flies by 
> flapping feathered wings or by blasting an exhaust of hot 
> gasses out of its rear end at high speed.
> 
> With duck-typing, you don't care whether you have a duck or a 
> goose, so long as they both can fly: you don't care *how* it 
> flies, so long as it does, and even a rocket-propelled 
> balloon will be fine.
> 
> But when you dynamically swap out __class__ (I think 
> Objective-C "swizzling" is conceptually equivalent, so I'll 
> call it by that word) you have to care about the 
> implementation. The whole point of swizzling is that it 
> allows you to swap out one implementation ("run forward and 
> flap your wings") with another implementation ("light the 
> blue touch paper"). But if you do that, you have to care 
> about implementation details. There's no point in setting 
> your swizzled fly() method to that of Rocket if your instance 
> doesn't have blue touch paper to light.
> 
> With duck-typing, making the methods work isn't your 
> responsibility. But when you swizzle, you are responsible for 
> making sure that the instance provides whatever the methods 
> need to work.
> 
> A very old but good example of Python swizzling is here:
> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/68429-ring-buffer/

-- 
Steve
"Cheer up," they said, "things could be worse." So I cheered up, and
sure enough, things got worse.

Condolences, Steve.  Nobody on this thread wants to plumb the depths of
Python swizzling. Or anything else Python, so it appears.




From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Mar 16 22:52:44 2017
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 20:52:44 -0600
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <f8gmccpfp6el30lol669herrr9as4rbspc@4ax.com>
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1d1d62dc-773b-a8b2-2719-6c12671244c1@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <29e0195f-eb12-24b8-80db-ed1cf03231db@VybeNetworks.com>
 <03b84ea9-9b35-232f-1021-a347f705394e@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmpbQj7r=megfWWXoC5O=wUGC_yvGGn8q6es2CfnVEyrAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.80.1489674690.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <ej0cs8Fkl9cU1@mid.individual.net>
 <f8gmccpfp6el30lol669herrr9as4rbspc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkGit3Fzz37N8kodDOpQ1GWP_cM4gBzS--soWU18n54nA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 7:56 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Mar 2017 10:03:04 +1300, Gregory Ewing
> <greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz> declaimed the following:
>
>>Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> I just asked my father, and he believes that a satellite DOES fly, on
>>> the basis that it is perpetually falling and forever missing the
>>> ground.
>>
>>Also, NASA people talk about "flying" the ISS, so it seems your
>>father is in good company.
>
>         Most likely they are referring to using gyroscopes (reaction wheels),
> and maneuvering thrusters to maintain orientation relative to the sun, so
> the solar panels stay fully lit.

The ISS orbit is low enough that they also have to do regular
(approximately monthly) boosts to counteract the gradual decay.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Mar 16 22:58:32 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 13:58:32 +1100
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidkGit3Fzz37N8kodDOpQ1GWP_cM4gBzS--soWU18n54nA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1d1d62dc-773b-a8b2-2719-6c12671244c1@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <29e0195f-eb12-24b8-80db-ed1cf03231db@VybeNetworks.com>
 <03b84ea9-9b35-232f-1021-a347f705394e@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmpbQj7r=megfWWXoC5O=wUGC_yvGGn8q6es2CfnVEyrAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.80.1489674690.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <ej0cs8Fkl9cU1@mid.individual.net>
 <f8gmccpfp6el30lol669herrr9as4rbspc@4ax.com>
 <CALwzidkGit3Fzz37N8kodDOpQ1GWP_cM4gBzS--soWU18n54nA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqfj1xbCg2F7-=RTOCAVWmuOB0hg+Ek_=t2=1tvRe+f4g@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 7:56 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber
> <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Mar 2017 10:03:04 +1300, Gregory Ewing
>> <greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz> declaimed the following:
>>
>>>Chris Angelico wrote:
>>>> I just asked my father, and he believes that a satellite DOES fly, on
>>>> the basis that it is perpetually falling and forever missing the
>>>> ground.
>>>
>>>Also, NASA people talk about "flying" the ISS, so it seems your
>>>father is in good company.
>>
>>         Most likely they are referring to using gyroscopes (reaction wheels),
>> and maneuvering thrusters to maintain orientation relative to the sun, so
>> the solar panels stay fully lit.
>
> The ISS orbit is low enough that they also have to do regular
> (approximately monthly) boosts to counteract the gradual decay.

Maybe what the ISS does isn't flying - it's falling with style?

ChrisA


From chenchao at inhand.com.cn  Fri Mar 17 00:08:34 2017
From: chenchao at inhand.com.cn (chenchao)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 00:08:34 -0400
Subject: How to add a built-in library in pyhton
Message-ID: <33a418df-514a-2ebc-3afd-87deaf5d7b34@inhand.com.cn>

Hello, everybody:

    I use python2.7.10 and want to add a c language library in python. 
So how can i built it as a built-in module in python?



From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Mar 17 00:18:26 2017
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 17:18:26 +1300
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.84.1489715822.2614.python-list@python.org>
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1d1d62dc-773b-a8b2-2719-6c12671244c1@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <29e0195f-eb12-24b8-80db-ed1cf03231db@VybeNetworks.com>
 <03b84ea9-9b35-232f-1021-a347f705394e@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmpbQj7r=megfWWXoC5O=wUGC_yvGGn8q6es2CfnVEyrAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.80.1489674690.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <ej0cs8Fkl9cU1@mid.individual.net>
 <f8gmccpfp6el30lol669herrr9as4rbspc@4ax.com>
 <mailman.84.1489715822.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ej16ckFp7d3U1@mid.individual.net>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> 	I'd say satellites do "not" fly, as they have no force/action opposing
> the fall caused by the pull of gravity.

Arrows, bullets, thrown stones, etc. are often said to be
flying.

Seems to me the word gets applied to anything that is
moving while not contacting the ground.

-- 
Greg


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Mar 17 00:21:42 2017
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 17:21:42 +1300
Subject: The ternaery operator
In-Reply-To: <ternary-20170317003737@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
References: <ternary-20170316040400@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
 <eiuvn2Fbg2vU1@mid.individual.net> <oae909$8nb$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <ej0dg6Fkr74U1@mid.individual.net>
 <ternary-20170317003737@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <ej16ioFp8cuU1@mid.individual.net>

Stefan Ram wrote:
>   A postponed ?if? can be found (x if a, otherwise y), but a
>   preceding ?if? (if a, x, otherwise y) also is found often.

Yes, both forms occur in English. The point is that
Guido didn't just make the idea up, it was inspired
by natural language.

-- 
Greg


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Mar 17 00:27:43 2017
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 17:27:43 +1300
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.87.1489719520.2614.python-list@python.org>
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1d1d62dc-773b-a8b2-2719-6c12671244c1@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <29e0195f-eb12-24b8-80db-ed1cf03231db@VybeNetworks.com>
 <03b84ea9-9b35-232f-1021-a347f705394e@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmpbQj7r=megfWWXoC5O=wUGC_yvGGn8q6es2CfnVEyrAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.80.1489674690.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <ej0cs8Fkl9cU1@mid.individual.net>
 <f8gmccpfp6el30lol669herrr9as4rbspc@4ax.com>
 <CALwzidkGit3Fzz37N8kodDOpQ1GWP_cM4gBzS--soWU18n54nA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqfj1xbCg2F7-=RTOCAVWmuOB0hg+Ek_=t2=1tvRe+f4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.87.1489719520.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ej16u1FpajgU1@mid.individual.net>

Chris Angelico wrote:
> Maybe what the ISS does isn't flying - it's falling with style?

Yep. They didn't really launch it into orbit with rockets,
that was all faked. They actually hauled it up there with
a crane, let it go and pulled the earth away at the last
moment.

-- 
Greg


From lutz.horn at posteo.de  Fri Mar 17 04:27:39 2017
From: lutz.horn at posteo.de (Lutz Horn)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 09:27:39 +0100
Subject: How to add a built-in library in pyhton
In-Reply-To: <33a418df-514a-2ebc-3afd-87deaf5d7b34@inhand.com.cn>
References: <33a418df-514a-2ebc-3afd-87deaf5d7b34@inhand.com.cn>
Message-ID: <aa7c31629f647d4a2da6e708f2fe938c@posteo.de>

Am 17.03.2017 05:08 schrieb chenchao:
>    I use python2.7.10 and want to add a c language library in python.
> So how can i built it as a built-in module in python?

Why do you want to build it as a built-in module? Why not a simple 
module as described on https://docs.python.org/2/extending/index.html ?

Lutz



From tony at vanderhoff.org  Fri Mar 17 05:58:45 2017
From: tony at vanderhoff.org (Tony van der Hoff)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 09:58:45 +0000
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <ej16ckFp7d3U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1d1d62dc-773b-a8b2-2719-6c12671244c1@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <29e0195f-eb12-24b8-80db-ed1cf03231db@VybeNetworks.com>
 <03b84ea9-9b35-232f-1021-a347f705394e@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmpbQj7r=megfWWXoC5O=wUGC_yvGGn8q6es2CfnVEyrAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.80.1489674690.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <ej0cs8Fkl9cU1@mid.individual.net>
 <f8gmccpfp6el30lol669herrr9as4rbspc@4ax.com>
 <mailman.84.1489715822.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <ej16ckFp7d3U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <f5434dac-9e87-b834-552a-5c5cdb9a63bb@vanderhoff.org>

On 17/03/17 04:18, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>>     I'd say satellites do "not" fly, as they have no force/action
>> opposing
>> the fall caused by the pull of gravity.
>
> Arrows, bullets, thrown stones, etc. are often said to be
> flying.
>
> Seems to me the word gets applied to anything that is
> moving while not contacting the ground.
>
Yep, like a Ferrari on a motorway


-- 
Tony van der Hoff        | mailto:tony at vanderhoff.org
Buckinghamshire, England |


From oleg at redhat.com  Fri Mar 17 10:54:59 2017
From: oleg at redhat.com (Oleg Nesterov)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 15:54:59 +0100
Subject: __del__ is not called after creating a new reference
Message-ID: <20170317145459.GA3628@redhat.com>

I started to learn python a few days ago and I am trying to understand what
__del__() actually does. https://docs.python.org/3/reference/datamodel.html
says:

	object.__del__(self)
	...
	Note that it is possible (though not recommended!) for the __del__()
	method to postpone destruction of the instance by creating a new
	reference to it. It may then be called at a later time when this new
	reference is deleted.

However, this trivial test-case

	class C:
		def __del__(self):
			print("DEL")
			global X
			X = self
	C()
	print(X)
	X = 0
	print(X)

shows that __del__ is called only once, it is not called again after "X = 0":

	DEL
	<__main__.C object at 0x7f067695f4a8>
	0
	
(Just in case, I verified later that this object actually goes away and its
 memory is freed, so the problem is not that it still has a reference).

I've cloned https://github.com/python/cpython.git and everything looks clear
at first glance (but let me repeat that I am very new to python):

	PyObject_CallFinalizerFromDealloc() calls PyObject_CallFinalizer()
	which finally calls "__del__" method in slot_tp_finalize(), then it
	notices that "X = self" creates the new reference and does:

	/* tp_finalize resurrected it!  Make it look like the original Py_DECREF
	 * never happened.
	 */
	refcnt = self->ob_refcnt;
	_Py_NewReference(self);
	self->ob_refcnt = refcnt;

However, PyObject_CallFinalizer() also does _PyGC_SET_FINALIZED(self, 1)
and that is why __del__ is not called again after "X = 0":

	/* tp_finalize should only be called once. */
	if (PyType_IS_GC(tp) && _PyGC_FINALIZED(self))
		return;

The comment and the code are very explicit, so this does nt look like a
bug in cpython.

Probably the docs should be fixed?

Or this code is actually wrong? The test-case works as documented if I
remove _PyGC_SET_FINALIZED() in PyObject_CallFinalizer() or add another
_PyGC_SET_FINALIZED(self, 0) into PyObject_CallFinalizerFromDealloc()
after _Py_NewReference(self), but yes, yes, I understand that this is
not correct and won't really help.

Oleg.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Mar 17 11:11:54 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 11:11:54 -0400
Subject: __del__ is not called after creating a new reference
In-Reply-To: <20170317145459.GA3628@redhat.com>
References: <20170317145459.GA3628@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <oagubl$ksh$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 3/17/2017 10:54 AM, Oleg Nesterov wrote:
> I started to learn python a few days ago and I am trying to understand what
> __del__() actually does. https://docs.python.org/3/reference/datamodel.html
> says:
>
> 	object.__del__(self)
> 	...
> 	Note that it is possible (though not recommended!) for the __del__()
> 	method to postpone destruction of the instance by creating a new
> 	reference to it.

If I understand the below, 'that persists after the function call' 
should be added.  Note that the function call itself 'creates a new 
reference' by binding 'self' to the obj.

  It may then be called at a later time when this new
> 	reference is deleted.
>
> However, this trivial test-case
>
> 	class C:
> 		def __del__(self):
> 			print("DEL")
> 			global X
> 			X = self
> 	C()
> 	print(X)
> 	X = 0
> 	print(X)
>
> shows that __del__ is called only once, it is not called again after "X = 0":
>
> 	DEL
> 	<__main__.C object at 0x7f067695f4a8>
> 	0
> 	
> (Just in case, I verified later that this object actually goes away and its
>  memory is freed, so the problem is not that it still has a reference).
>
> I've cloned https://github.com/python/cpython.git and everything looks clear
> at first glance (but let me repeat that I am very new to python):
>
> 	PyObject_CallFinalizerFromDealloc() calls PyObject_CallFinalizer()
> 	which finally calls "__del__" method in slot_tp_finalize(), then it
> 	notices that "X = self" creates the new reference and does:
>
> 	/* tp_finalize resurrected it!  Make it look like the original Py_DECREF
> 	 * never happened.
> 	 */
> 	refcnt = self->ob_refcnt;
> 	_Py_NewReference(self);
> 	self->ob_refcnt = refcnt;
>
> However, PyObject_CallFinalizer() also does _PyGC_SET_FINALIZED(self, 1)
> and that is why __del__ is not called again after "X = 0":
>
> 	/* tp_finalize should only be called once. */
> 	if (PyType_IS_GC(tp) && _PyGC_FINALIZED(self))
> 		return;

I suspect that this was added after the doc.  If git has an annotate 
function, you could check.

> The comment and the code are very explicit, so this does nt look like a
> bug in cpython.
>
> Probably the docs should be fixed?
>
> Or this code is actually wrong? The test-case works as documented if I
> remove _PyGC_SET_FINALIZED() in PyObject_CallFinalizer() or add another
> _PyGC_SET_FINALIZED(self, 0) into PyObject_CallFinalizerFromDealloc()
> after _Py_NewReference(self), but yes, yes, I understand that this is
> not correct and won't really help.
>
> Oleg.
>


-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From oleg at redhat.com  Fri Mar 17 11:35:53 2017
From: oleg at redhat.com (Oleg Nesterov)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 16:35:53 +0100
Subject: __del__ is not called after creating a new reference
In-Reply-To: <oagubl$ksh$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <20170317145459.GA3628@redhat.com> <oagubl$ksh$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20170317153553.GA4739@redhat.com>

On 03/17, Terry Reedy wrote:
>
> On 3/17/2017 10:54 AM, Oleg Nesterov wrote:
>> I started to learn python a few days ago and I am trying to understand what
>> __del__() actually does. https://docs.python.org/3/reference/datamodel.html
>> says:
>>
>> 	object.__del__(self)
>> 	...
>> 	Note that it is possible (though not recommended!) for the __del__()
>> 	method to postpone destruction of the instance by creating a new
>> 	reference to it.
>
> If I understand the below, 'that persists after the function call'
> should be added.

Yes,

> Note that the function call itself 'creates a new
> reference' by binding 'self' to the obj.

Well, not really if I have read this code correctly (quite possibly not),
PyObject_CallFinalizer() is called with the "artificial" ob_refcnt == 1
after it was already zero, and I am not sure call_unbound_noarg() binds
"self", but this doesn't mattter at all afaics.

> I suspect that this was added after the doc.  If git has an annotate
> function, you could check.

I did. And it is not clear to me if this behavioural change was intentional
or not. I don't have the sources right now so I can't tell you the commit id,
I can do this later when I return home.

I have python2.5 on my working laptop, the test-case works as documented.

Oleg.



From jladasky at itu.edu  Fri Mar 17 17:24:12 2017
From: jladasky at itu.edu (jladasky at itu.edu)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 14:24:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <ej16u1FpajgU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1d1d62dc-773b-a8b2-2719-6c12671244c1@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <29e0195f-eb12-24b8-80db-ed1cf03231db@VybeNetworks.com>
 <03b84ea9-9b35-232f-1021-a347f705394e@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmpbQj7r=megfWWXoC5O=wUGC_yvGGn8q6es2CfnVEyrAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.80.1489674690.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <ej0cs8Fkl9cU1@mid.individual.net>
 <f8gmccpfp6el30lol669herrr9as4rbspc@4ax.com>
 <CALwzidkGit3Fzz37N8kodDOpQ1GWP_cM4gBzS--soWU18n54nA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqfj1xbCg2F7-=RTOCAVWmuOB0hg+Ek_=t2=1tvRe+f4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.87.1489719520.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <ej16u1FpajgU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <8ee1a5bc-e858-42e1-96a9-3bf12eb71787@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 9:27:56 PM UTC-7, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Chris Angelico wrote:
> > Maybe what the ISS does isn't flying - it's falling with style?
> 
> Yep. They didn't really launch it into orbit with rockets,
> that was all faked. They actually hauled it up there with
> a crane, let it go and pulled the earth away at the last
> moment.
> 
> -- 
> Greg

Chris, this is evidence you need to stick to Flying Circus references when attempting to construct a joke in this newsgroup.  Buzz Lightyear won't cut it.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Mar 17 17:29:01 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 08:29:01 +1100
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <8ee1a5bc-e858-42e1-96a9-3bf12eb71787@googlegroups.com>
References: <201aac84-4014-487b-9e24-e5ed8360eda8@googlegroups.com>
 <58c94740$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1d1d62dc-773b-a8b2-2719-6c12671244c1@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <29e0195f-eb12-24b8-80db-ed1cf03231db@VybeNetworks.com>
 <03b84ea9-9b35-232f-1021-a347f705394e@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmpbQj7r=megfWWXoC5O=wUGC_yvGGn8q6es2CfnVEyrAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.80.1489674690.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <ej0cs8Fkl9cU1@mid.individual.net>
 <f8gmccpfp6el30lol669herrr9as4rbspc@4ax.com>
 <CALwzidkGit3Fzz37N8kodDOpQ1GWP_cM4gBzS--soWU18n54nA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqfj1xbCg2F7-=RTOCAVWmuOB0hg+Ek_=t2=1tvRe+f4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.87.1489719520.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <ej16u1FpajgU1@mid.individual.net>
 <8ee1a5bc-e858-42e1-96a9-3bf12eb71787@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmobXVzSgciAEw0a1qQH4y1Fsckj1aJkEWCu2E6oOHGpxA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 8:24 AM,  <jladasky at itu.edu> wrote:
> On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 9:27:56 PM UTC-7, Gregory Ewing wrote:
>> Chris Angelico wrote:
>> > Maybe what the ISS does isn't flying - it's falling with style?
>>
>> Yep. They didn't really launch it into orbit with rockets,
>> that was all faked. They actually hauled it up there with
>> a crane, let it go and pulled the earth away at the last
>> moment.
>>
>> --
>> Greg
>
> Chris, this is evidence you need to stick to Flying Circus references when attempting to construct a joke in this newsgroup.  Buzz Lightyear won't cut it.

And cue the discussion of whether Joke.__init__() is the constructor or not.

ChrisA


From jladasky at itu.edu  Fri Mar 17 17:44:23 2017
From: jladasky at itu.edu (jladasky at itu.edu)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 14:44:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dynamically replacing an objects __class__; is it safe?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.85.1489716425.2614.python-list@python.org>
References: <58ca7fdb$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <012d01d29ec3$2c3a5f40$27b23dae@sambora>
 <mailman.85.1489716425.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a61defe8-b0ae-431a-9e09-3b7342d249ed@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 7:07:17 PM UTC-7, Deborah Swanson wrote:
> Steve D'Aprano wrote,on March 16, 2017 5:07 AM
> > 
> > On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 09:03 am, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> > 
> > > Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> > >> You probably can't make a whale fly just by changing the class to 
> > >> bird. It will need wings, and feathers, at the very least.
> > > 
> > > Some things succeed in flying with neither wings nor feathers. 
> > > Helicopters, for example.
> > 
> > For some definition of "no wings".
> > 
> > But regardless of rockets, balloons, helicopters, Boeing 747s 
> > and Dr Strange's mystical Cloak Of Levitation, *birds* 
> > require wings and feathers to fly. If you just paint "BIRD" 
> > on the side of a whale, it won't get off the ground, and if 
> > you do manage to get it airborne (via a catapult,
> > perhaps) it will just come down with a rather large splat.
> > 
> > The point is that dynamically swapping the class of an 
> > existing instance at runtime is *not* just a way of doing 
> > duck-typing. It really does matter if your duck flies by 
> > flapping feathered wings or by blasting an exhaust of hot 
> > gasses out of its rear end at high speed.
> > 
> > With duck-typing, you don't care whether you have a duck or a 
> > goose, so long as they both can fly: you don't care *how* it 
> > flies, so long as it does, and even a rocket-propelled 
> > balloon will be fine.
> > 
> > But when you dynamically swap out __class__ (I think 
> > Objective-C "swizzling" is conceptually equivalent, so I'll 
> > call it by that word) you have to care about the 
> > implementation. The whole point of swizzling is that it 
> > allows you to swap out one implementation ("run forward and 
> > flap your wings") with another implementation ("light the 
> > blue touch paper"). But if you do that, you have to care 
> > about implementation details. There's no point in setting 
> > your swizzled fly() method to that of Rocket if your instance 
> > doesn't have blue touch paper to light.
> > 
> > With duck-typing, making the methods work isn't your 
> > responsibility. But when you swizzle, you are responsible for 
> > making sure that the instance provides whatever the methods 
> > need to work.
> > 
> > A very old but good example of Python swizzling is here:
> > http://code.activestate.com/recipes/68429-ring-buffer/
> 
> -- 
> Steve
> "Cheer up," they said, "things could be worse." So I cheered up, and
> sure enough, things got worse.
> 
> Condolences, Steve.  Nobody on this thread wants to plumb the depths of
> Python swizzling. Or anything else Python, so it appears.

Hey Deborah,

If you're getting discouraged by a certain spammer who posts to this newsgroup in ALL CAPS and ITALIAN, don't let him beat you.  Go find newsreader software that allows you to define filters and killfiles.  It will help.

If you read further into that article about the RingBuffer class and "swizzling", Steve Alexander suggests a method that I have used myself, and which I consider to be generally superior: conditionally rebinding the names of methods you want to change within a class, rather than overriding __class__ itself.

I suppose that each approach has its merits.  If you want the object's type to advertise that a condition has changed, rebinding __class__ is good.  If you have many methods to change, and you don't like long lists of similarly-named functions in one class, rebinding __class__ could also be good.

I don't encounter those conditions much myself.  In the RingBufferFull case, only two methods need to change, .append() and .get().  Both methods are short.  Both methods' eventual replacements, which we might name ._full_append() and ._get(), are also short.  I would do it Steve Alexander's way.


From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Fri Mar 17 20:52:49 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 01:52:49 +0100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>

So Python supports both spaces and tabs for indentation.

I just wonder, why not forbid spaces in the beginning of lines?
How would one come to the idea to use spaces for indentation at all?

Space is not even a control/format character, but a word separator.
And when editors will be proportional font based, indenting with
spaces will not make *any* sense so they are just annoyance.
Neither makes it sense in general case of text editing.
I think it would be a salvation to forbid spaces for indentation,
did such attemps take place?


From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Fri Mar 17 22:09:10 2017
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 22:09:10 -0400
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+w49m3ugZGEPz3+ad+ZTJR-5-PPjZGixxwjV-gAuJ_Nsw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
> So Python supports both spaces and tabs for indentation.
>
> I just wonder, why not forbid spaces in the beginning of lines?
> How would one come to the idea to use spaces for indentation at all?
>
> Space is not even a control/format character, but a word separator.
> And when editors will be proportional font based, indenting with
> spaces will not make *any* sense so they are just annoyance.
> Neither makes it sense in general case of text editing.
> I think it would be a salvation to forbid spaces for indentation,
> did such attemps take place?
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

This is not a useful conversation.  It has been had over and over in
the past.  Some people like tabs, some like spaces.  In python you can
use either, but you must stick to one or the other


-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


From darcy at VybeNetworks.com  Fri Mar 17 23:50:52 2017
From: darcy at VybeNetworks.com (D'Arcy Cain)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 23:50:52 -0400
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAPM-O+w49m3ugZGEPz3+ad+ZTJR-5-PPjZGixxwjV-gAuJ_Nsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPM-O+w49m3ugZGEPz3+ad+ZTJR-5-PPjZGixxwjV-gAuJ_Nsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3d91c973-6ad1-532d-7bc7-34f7dbde31d4@VybeNetworks.com>

On 2017-03-17 10:09 PM, Joel Goldstick wrote:
> This is not a useful conversation.  It has been had over and over in
> the past.  Some people like tabs, some like spaces.  In python you can
> use either, but you must stick to one or the other

s/must/should/

Technically you can use both if you are careful but life is so much 
easier if you pick one or the other.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain
Vybe Networks Inc.
http://www.VybeNetworks.com/
IM:darcy at Vex.Net VoIP: sip:darcy at VybeNetworks.com


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Mar 18 00:02:31 2017
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 15:02:31 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> writes:

> I just wonder, why not forbid spaces in the beginning of lines?
> How would one come to the idea to use spaces for indentation at all?

Those are two very different questions. I think you may be under the
false impression that the decision you refer to was made in a vacuum.

The truth is that there was an impressive culture of programming
convention before Python ever existed; and, now that Python does exist,
there is an enormous amount of Python code to continue supporting.

For the first:

> I just wonder, why not forbid spaces in the beginning of lines?

Because that would make countless lines of existing Python code illegal.

For the second:

> How would one come to the idea to use spaces for indentation at all?

Because, whether in the context of programming or not, the space
character is the most obvious way to make invisible horizontal
separation when typing at a keyboard.

Therefore, it's the most obvious way for people to type what they see in
programming examples. Therefore, it would be astonishing to reject it
for indentation. Astonishment is a property to be minimised in a
programming language.

> I think it would be a salvation to forbid spaces for indentation, did
> such attemps take place?

Feel free to start your own discussion forum for your new programming
language that forbids spaces for indentation. That language will never
be Python, so please don't ask us to discuss it here.

-- 
 \      ?We are stuck with technology when what we really want is just |
  `\                                 stuff that works.? ?Douglas Adams |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From wrw at mac.com  Sat Mar 18 00:36:00 2017
From: wrw at mac.com (William Ray Wing)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 00:36:00 -0400
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A9D6AF12-231C-43E8-92EC-54EACC519907@mac.com>


> On Mar 17, 2017, at 8:52 PM, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> So Python supports both spaces and tabs for indentation.
> 
> I just wonder, why not forbid spaces in the beginning of lines?
> How would one come to the idea to use spaces for indentation at all?
> 

That convention dates all the way back to the IBM 026 and 029 card punches and FORTRAN.

> Space is not even a control/format character, but a word separator.
> And when editors will be proportional font based, indenting with
> spaces will not make *any* sense so they are just annoyance.
> Neither makes it sense in general case of text editing.
> I think it would be a salvation to forbid spaces for indentation,
> did such attemps take place?
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From auriocus at gmx.de  Sat Mar 18 04:05:39 2017
From: auriocus at gmx.de (Christian Gollwitzer)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 09:05:39 +0100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1489800218.30671.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.1.1489800218.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oaipj6$mu9$2@dont-email.me>

Am 18.03.17 um 01:52 schrieb Mikhail V:
> So Python supports both spaces and tabs for indentation.
>
> I just wonder, why not forbid spaces in the beginning of lines?
> How would one come to the idea to use spaces for indentation at all?

In the Python world it is the opposite - spaces are preferred and tabs 
are merely "allowed" - see PEP8

	https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/#tabs-or-spaces

Both have advantages and disadvantages for indentation. Some ideas how 
to get both have never gained widespread adoption:

	http://nickgravgaard.com/elastic-tabstops/

Christian


From kwpolska at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 04:35:40 2017
From: kwpolska at gmail.com (Chris Warrick)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 09:35:40 +0100
Subject: SimpleHTTPServer and CgiHTTPServer in practice
In-Reply-To: <87inn8eogj.fsf@nightsong.com>
References: <87bmt2nj01.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <3944b2b755d208e1e1e396bf221fada7@posteo.de>
 <mailman.75.1489663904.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <87inn8eogj.fsf@nightsong.com>
Message-ID: <CAMw+j7L5jCzPEphnK5MTfWBE8qFvtd2wC0VXJCmg6FP8c8vG-g@mail.gmail.com>

On 17 March 2017 at 01:28, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Lutz Horn <lutz.horn at posteo.de> writes:
>> We don't know *why* those people told you not to use these modules. We
>> also don't know your use case. So it is very hard to advise you.
>
> The use case is to have a very easily set up way to serve basic pages
> and files, without a lot of configuration files and other
> infrastructure.  The main reason not to use it would be security holes
> if there are some.  I haven't examined the code carefully but didn't see
> obvious issues at a quick glanace.  I frankly worry more about large C
> programs than Python programs.
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Security isn?t the main problem. SimpleHTTPServer is fine for small,
local, one-off servers. However, for anything large, there are two
problems: (a) its ephemeral nature, and (b) slow performance (no
caching). nginx (or apache if you must) takes only a few minutes to
set up, and does not have those problems.

CgiHTTPServer? It?s 2017 and CGI should be long dead. CGI means firing
up a Python/Perl/$cgi_language interpreter on every single HTTP
request, already a waste of time. And then, CGI scripts take input via
random environment variables (not very dependable) and output to
stdout, which is a completely broken architecture. Give up and run a
real web framework (Django) using uWSGI and nginx.

-- 
Chris Warrick <https://chriswarrick.com/>
PGP: 5EAAEA16


From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 09:46:16 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 14:46:16 +0100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAPM-O+w49m3ugZGEPz3+ad+ZTJR-5-PPjZGixxwjV-gAuJ_Nsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPM-O+w49m3ugZGEPz3+ad+ZTJR-5-PPjZGixxwjV-gAuJ_Nsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRB5utRFn5xCUo7NtNU_j3M+7PM9vCSvfsOKVoBGH2PtVA@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 March 2017 at 03:09, Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
>> So Python supports both spaces and tabs for indentation.
>>
>> I just wonder, why not forbid spaces in the beginning of lines?
>> How would one come to the idea to use spaces for indentation at all?
>>
>> Space is not even a control/format character, but a word separator.
>> And when editors will be proportional font based, indenting with
>> spaces will not make *any* sense so they are just annoyance.
>> Neither makes it sense in general case of text editing.
>> I think it would be a salvation to forbid spaces for indentation,
>> did such attemps take place?
>
> This is not a useful conversation.  It has been had over and over in
> the past.  Some people like tabs, some like spaces.  In python you can
> use either, but you must stick to one or the other
>

Not to judge, but usually such opinions come from determined
spasists. And "stick to one or the other" is exactly what would make
life easier, but in literal sense of global preference.

On 18 March 2017 at 05:02, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I just wonder, why not forbid spaces in the beginning of lines?
>
> Because that would make countless lines of existing Python code illegal.

Yes, yes. And it is of course so hard to clean up spaces in existing code.


From darcy at VybeNetworks.com  Sat Mar 18 10:08:38 2017
From: darcy at VybeNetworks.com (D'Arcy Cain)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 10:08:38 -0400
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAE6NSRB5utRFn5xCUo7NtNU_j3M+7PM9vCSvfsOKVoBGH2PtVA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPM-O+w49m3ugZGEPz3+ad+ZTJR-5-PPjZGixxwjV-gAuJ_Nsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRB5utRFn5xCUo7NtNU_j3M+7PM9vCSvfsOKVoBGH2PtVA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <051a032b-10ce-80ae-bdef-a8b652156346@VybeNetworks.com>

On 2017-03-18 09:46 AM, Mikhail V wrote:
> Not to judge, but usually such opinions come from determined

And he probably wasn't being facetious.

Butyouareprobablyright.Spaceisawasteofspace.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain
Vybe Networks Inc.
http://www.VybeNetworks.com/
IM:darcy at Vex.Net VoIP: sip:darcy at VybeNetworks.com


From mal at europython.eu  Sat Mar 18 11:00:46 2017
From: mal at europython.eu (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 16:00:46 +0100
Subject: EuroPython 2017: Welcome our new Logo
Message-ID: <6ea7f4f2-51de-1dd5-07b9-10e5ddbb51f6@europython.eu>

Blue sea. Yellow sand. EuroPython goes to Rimini 2017 with a brand new
logo. Colorful waves play with beach umbrellas to shape the
foundation symbol with different patterns that visually immerse us in
our new location, one of the most popular sea places in Italy. New
place, new dates, new style and colors. Same spirit as before.


	   EuroPython 2017 website, now with our new logo:

		 *** http://ep2017.europython.eu/ ***


Training sessions, an enthusiastic line-up of keynote speakers from
around the world, opportunities for sponsors and much more.

While waiting for the new website launch, save the dates and join us
in Rimini, Italy, from 9th to 16th July for a new edition of
EuroPython.

Please subscribe to our various EuroPython channels for updates on the
conference:

	      http://ep2017.europython.eu/social-media/


Enjoy,
?
EuroPython 2017 Team
http://ep2017.europython.eu/
http://www.europython-society.org/


PS: Please forward or retweet to help us reach all interested parties:
https://twitter.com/europython/status/843024186461380608
Thanks.


From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 11:18:22 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 16:18:22 +0100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 March 2017 at 05:02, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I think it would be a salvation to forbid spaces for indentation, did
>> such attemps take place?
>
> Feel free to start your own discussion forum for your new programming
> language that forbids spaces for indentation. That language will never
> be Python, so please don't ask us to discuss it here.

Slight note of aggression in you words makes me think you
are a ... spacist?
So you are the opinion it would be more productive to
invent a new language instead of just cleaning up spaces?
Interesting idea indeed, but that is ok.
I think it still helps to realize that in the future this will
become more noticable problem than it seems now, so
at least making up a strategy for converting to tabs
could be way more productive on a long term basis,
than replacing tabs and spaces back and forth, like pouring
water from one glass to another.


From lutz.horn at posteo.de  Sat Mar 18 11:54:32 2017
From: lutz.horn at posteo.de (Lutz Horn)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 16:54:32 +0100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>

Am 18.03.17 um 16:18 schrieb Mikhail V:
> On 18 March 2017 at 05:02, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au>
> wrote:
>> Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> writes:
>> 
>>> I think it would be a salvation to forbid spaces for indentation,
>>> did such attemps take place?
>> 
>> Feel free to start your own discussion forum for your new
>> programming language that forbids spaces for indentation. That
>> language will never be Python, so please don't ask us to discuss it
>> here.

> So you are the opinion it would be more productive to invent a new
> language instead of just cleaning up spaces?

Productive in solving what problem exactly? Why do you think a cleaning
of spaces is necessary?

> I think it still helps to realize that in the future this will become
> more noticable problem than it seems now

Why? What could be the problem? I fail to see how the Python policy of
preferring spaces over tabs while allowing both if used consistent is
causing any problem.

Lutz

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From torriem at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 12:04:51 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 10:04:51 -0600
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eb677254-f84d-f05a-1576-93801c04f64e@gmail.com>

On 03/18/2017 09:18 AM, Mikhail V wrote:
> Slight note of aggression in you words makes me think you
> are a ... spacist?

Please stop trolling.  You obviously have an opinion and you are
pursuing it aggressively, apparently attempting to bait people into an
argument. Please stop. Your argument is not constructive.



From darcy at VybeNetworks.com  Sat Mar 18 12:07:56 2017
From: darcy at VybeNetworks.com (D'Arcy Cain)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 12:07:56 -0400
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b4247d36-a5f7-2f7f-2fba-9ac7cd46b765@VybeNetworks.com>

On 2017-03-18 11:18 AM, Mikhail V wrote:
> On 18 March 2017 at 05:02, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>> Feel free to start your own discussion forum for your new programming
>> language that forbids spaces for indentation. That language will never
>> be Python, so please don't ask us to discuss it here.
>
> Slight note of aggression in you words makes me think you
> are a ... spacist?

As are just about everyone on this list except you.

> So you are the opinion it would be more productive to
> invent a new language instead of just cleaning up spaces?

No, he thinks it would be more productive for us if you went away and 
invented your own language.

> Interesting idea indeed, but that is ok.
> I think it still helps to realize that in the future this will
> become more noticable problem than it seems now, so
> at least making up a strategy for converting to tabs
> could be way more productive on a long term basis,
> than replacing tabs and spaces back and forth, like pouring
> water from one glass to another.

At one point I couldn't decide if you were just a troll or not.  Thanks 
for clearing it up.

*plonk*

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain
Vybe Networks Inc.
http://www.VybeNetworks.com/
IM:darcy at Vex.Net VoIP: sip:darcy at VybeNetworks.com


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 12:30:12 2017
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 16:30:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oajnak$57p$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 2017-03-18, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:

> So Python supports both spaces and tabs for indentation.

Indeed.

> I just wonder, why not forbid spaces in the beginning of lines?

Because spaces are pure, clean, and secure.

> How would one come to the idea to use spaces for indentation at all?

Because tabs are a major security vulnerability and should be outlawed
in all source code.

-- 
Grant



From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Sat Mar 18 13:13:30 2017
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 17:13:30 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <oajnak$57p$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.15.1489854642.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnocqqr7.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>

On 2017-03-18, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2017-03-18, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
>> How would one come to the idea to use spaces for indentation at all?
>
> Because tabs are a major security vulnerability and should be outlawed
> in all source code.

You forgot to mention that tabs are carcinogenic, can be addictive,
and hate our freedoms. If we use them, the terrorists win. Tabs can
settle during transit, and may contain traces of nuts. Tabs should
not be folded, spindled or mutilated. Tabs are vicious if wounded.
Remember, kids: Just Say No to the Invisible Menace.


From gherron at digipen.edu  Sat Mar 18 13:30:39 2017
From: gherron at digipen.edu (Gary Herron)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 10:30:39 -0700
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAE6NSRB5utRFn5xCUo7NtNU_j3M+7PM9vCSvfsOKVoBGH2PtVA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPM-O+w49m3ugZGEPz3+ad+ZTJR-5-PPjZGixxwjV-gAuJ_Nsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRB5utRFn5xCUo7NtNU_j3M+7PM9vCSvfsOKVoBGH2PtVA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c4cf6cfd-0066-c300-2460-6c496100420d@digipen.edu>

On 03/18/2017 06:46 AM, Mikhail V wrote:
> On 18 March 2017 at 03:09, Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> So Python supports both spaces and tabs for indentation.
>>>
>>> I just wonder, why not forbid spaces in the beginning of lines?
>>> How would one come to the idea to use spaces for indentation at all?
>>>
>>> Space is not even a control/format character, but a word separator.
>>> And when editors will be proportional font based, indenting with
>>> spaces will not make *any* sense so they are just annoyance.
>>> Neither makes it sense in general case of text editing.
>>> I think it would be a salvation to forbid spaces for indentation,
>>> did such attemps take place?
>> This is not a useful conversation.  It has been had over and over in
>> the past.  Some people like tabs, some like spaces.  In python you can
>> use either, but you must stick to one or the other
>>
> Not to judge, but usually such opinions come from determined
> spasists. And "stick to one or the other" is exactly what would make
> life easier, but in literal sense of global preference.
>
> On 18 March 2017 at 05:02, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>> Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> I just wonder, why not forbid spaces in the beginning of lines?
>> Because that would make countless lines of existing Python code illegal.
> Yes, yes. And it is of course so hard to clean up spaces in existing code.

As a mater of fact, and despite the snark, that is true.  A quick count 
finds 46,209 .py files on my computer, spread across the OS, installed 
packages, and my own work.  I would strongly resist anything that needs 
that much re-installation and personal attention.


-- 
Dr. Gary Herron
Professor of Computer Science
DigiPen Institute of Technology
(425) 895-4418



From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 14:11:09 2017
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 18:11:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <oajnak$57p$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.15.1489854642.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnocqqr7.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <oajt7t$6df$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 2017-03-18, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu> wrote:
> On 2017-03-18, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2017-03-18, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> How would one come to the idea to use spaces for indentation at all?
>>
>> Because tabs are a major security vulnerability and should be outlawed
>> in all source code.
>
> You forgot to mention that tabs are carcinogenic, can be addictive,
> and hate our freedoms.

And they contribute to global warming.

> If we use them, the terrorists win. Tabs can settle during transit,
> and may contain traces of nuts. Tabs should not be folded, spindled
> or mutilated. Tabs are vicious if wounded.  Remember, kids: Just Say
> No to the Invisible Menace.

And remember, kids...

   Do Not Taunt Tabs.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I want EARS!  I want
                                  at               two ROUND BLACK EARS
                              gmail.com            to make me feel warm
                                                   'n secure!!



From bgailer at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 16:19:55 2017
From: bgailer at gmail.com (Bob Gailer)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 16:19:55 -0400
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1rxO7QkwDz5tKrTC4-xo-mar-_O1CEXUVXqZKdZ-fv0nXTfw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mar 17, 2017 9:23 PM, "Mikhail V" <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So Python supports both spaces and tabs for indentation.
>
> I just wonder, why not forbid spaces in the beginning of lines?
> How would one come to the idea to use spaces for indentation at all?

One problem for me with tabs: there is no standard visual representation (1
tab = ? Spaces)
>
> Space is not even a control/format character, but a word separator.

Huh? The character sets I'm familiar with don't have "word separators".
Space is just another no -control character.

> And when editors will be proportional font based

Editors allow your choice of font. Some are proportional, some monospaced.
I fail to see any benefit from making a proportional-only font based
editor.

, indenting with
> spaces will not make *any* sense so they are just annoyance.

Only in the eye of the beholder.

> Neither makes it sense in general case of text editing.
> I think it would be a salvation to forbid spaces for indentation,
> did such attemps take place?
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 17:24:18 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 22:24:18 +0100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 March 2017 at 16:54, Lutz Horn <lutz.horn at posteo.de> wrote:
> Am 18.03.17 um 16:18 schrieb Mikhail V:
>> On 18 March 2017 at 05:02, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au>
>> wrote:
>>> Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> I think it would be a salvation to forbid spaces for indentation,
>>>> did such attemps take place?
>>>
>>> Feel free to start your own discussion forum for your new
>>> programming language that forbids spaces for indentation. That
>>> language will never be Python, so please don't ask us to discuss it
>>> here.
>
>> So you are the opinion it would be more productive to invent a new
>> language instead of just cleaning up spaces?
>
> Productive in solving what problem exactly? Why do you think a cleaning
> of spaces is necessary?

Ehm, why is it necessary? I won't mix them and I use tabs, so if I become a
source with spaces and edit it, I must replace them, then if a spacist becomes
tabulated code he replaces tabs with spaces again. Not a big
deal, but seems strange.

>
>> I think it still helps to realize that in the future this will become
>> more noticable problem than it seems now
>
> Why? What could be the problem? I fail to see how the Python policy of
> preferring spaces over tabs while allowing both if used consistent is
> causing any problem.

There can be some problems, say in one class a teacher says: never
use tabs, in other class a teacher says: don't use spaces.
Who is right?
This is not a major problem, but technically seen using tabs
is more logical way, but de-facto spaces are recommended.
I've noticed a tendency that more and more users
choose tabs. Indeed if you think about it, using several spaces for
one level of indentation is ridiculous and it is not only my opinion.
So tabs are quite natural choice, but with spaces being a 'recommended'
style, there are two 'camps' within one language.
New users will be always frustrated, and ask why is it bad to use tabs.
But can all teachers explain exactly the difference? So it starts as a
problem of choice.


From dvl at psu.edu  Sat Mar 18 17:44:05 2017
From: dvl at psu.edu (ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 17:44:05 -0400
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
Message-ID: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>

Just a couple minor notes from my experience:

1) 
Some of the course management software I use doesn't like me typing tab
characters.
When I want to post sample code into a course page using this software, tabs
are either
ignored or does something really broken (like post an incomplete file).  So, I
must necessarily
type spaces when posting that code -- and of course, downloading that sample
from the page
has spaces in it instead of tabs.

Point in favor of using spaces.

2)
Tabs are one byte; spaces are one byte; so unless all of your indents are only
one space at a time,
a source file with tabs takes less memory than a source file with tabs.
It's not a significant difference.

Very minor point in favor of using tabs.

I'm still a spacer myself. 




From nathan.ernst at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 17:50:06 2017
From: nathan.ernst at gmail.com (Nathan Ernst)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 16:50:06 -0500
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
 <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPjBxg8FnLf_PsBqxnv4cz3E_=vq8OF-FySd00ZbCWmVcgNgSQ@mail.gmail.com>

My issue with using spaces instead of tabs, is that, as mentioned earlier
in the thread, everyone has their own preferences on indentation. I've
worked on teams where different developers used 2, 3 & 4 spaces as
indentation. Obviously, if you're using spaces, several of the members will
be unhappy.

Tabs have the benefit that most editors used by developers allow the
adjustment of the width of a tab. If you use tabs, everyone can be happy
with the visual presentation of their code.

My rule of thumb: tabs for indentation, spaces for alignment (i.e. trying
to line up anything after a non-whitespace character on a single line).

Regards,
Nathan

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 4:24 PM, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 18 March 2017 at 16:54, Lutz Horn <lutz.horn at posteo.de> wrote:
> > Am 18.03.17 um 16:18 schrieb Mikhail V:
> >> On 18 March 2017 at 05:02, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au>
> >> wrote:
> >>> Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> writes:
> >>>
> >>>> I think it would be a salvation to forbid spaces for indentation,
> >>>> did such attemps take place?
> >>>
> >>> Feel free to start your own discussion forum for your new
> >>> programming language that forbids spaces for indentation. That
> >>> language will never be Python, so please don't ask us to discuss it
> >>> here.
> >
> >> So you are the opinion it would be more productive to invent a new
> >> language instead of just cleaning up spaces?
> >
> > Productive in solving what problem exactly? Why do you think a cleaning
> > of spaces is necessary?
>
> Ehm, why is it necessary? I won't mix them and I use tabs, so if I become a
> source with spaces and edit it, I must replace them, then if a spacist
> becomes
> tabulated code he replaces tabs with spaces again. Not a big
> deal, but seems strange.
>
> >
> >> I think it still helps to realize that in the future this will become
> >> more noticable problem than it seems now
> >
> > Why? What could be the problem? I fail to see how the Python policy of
> > preferring spaces over tabs while allowing both if used consistent is
> > causing any problem.
>
> There can be some problems, say in one class a teacher says: never
> use tabs, in other class a teacher says: don't use spaces.
> Who is right?
> This is not a major problem, but technically seen using tabs
> is more logical way, but de-facto spaces are recommended.
> I've noticed a tendency that more and more users
> choose tabs. Indeed if you think about it, using several spaces for
> one level of indentation is ridiculous and it is not only my opinion.
> So tabs are quite natural choice, but with spaces being a 'recommended'
> style, there are two 'camps' within one language.
> New users will be always frustrated, and ask why is it bad to use tabs.
> But can all teachers explain exactly the difference? So it starts as a
> problem of choice.
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 17:55:17 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 08:55:17 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAPjBxg8FnLf_PsBqxnv4cz3E_=vq8OF-FySd00ZbCWmVcgNgSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
 <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPjBxg8FnLf_PsBqxnv4cz3E_=vq8OF-FySd00ZbCWmVcgNgSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmob4zhDyoQOjhEi17dA=Y_TfLHHiLz2fXs_hLxcruDhtA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 8:50 AM, Nathan Ernst <nathan.ernst at gmail.com> wrote:
> My rule of thumb: tabs for indentation, spaces for alignment (i.e. trying
> to line up anything after a non-whitespace character on a single line).

My rule of thumb: tabs for indentation, and don't align stuff after
non-whitespace :)

ChrisA


From arequipeno at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 17:58:53 2017
From: arequipeno at gmail.com (Ian Pilcher)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 16:58:53 -0500
Subject: cryptography default_backend is "hazmat"?
Message-ID: <oakain$avc$1@blaine.gmane.org>

Yet another newbie question/observation ...

So every example I can find of using python-cryptography includes a
call to cryptography.hazmat.backends.default_backend().  Of course, the
documentation at https://cryptography.io/en/latest/hazmat/backends/
says:

   ! Danger

   This is a ?Hazardous Materials? module. You should ONLY use it if
   you?re 100% absolutely sure that you know what you?re doing because
   this module is full of land mines, dragons, and dinosaurs with laser
   guns.

Anyone else see a conflict here?

-- 
========================================================================
Ian Pilcher                                         arequipeno at gmail.com
-------- "I grew up before Mark Zuckerberg invented friendship" --------
========================================================================



From nathan.ernst at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 17:59:16 2017
From: nathan.ernst at gmail.com (Nathan Ernst)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 16:59:16 -0500
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmob4zhDyoQOjhEi17dA=Y_TfLHHiLz2fXs_hLxcruDhtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
 <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPjBxg8FnLf_PsBqxnv4cz3E_=vq8OF-FySd00ZbCWmVcgNgSQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmob4zhDyoQOjhEi17dA=Y_TfLHHiLz2fXs_hLxcruDhtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPjBxg_zw26DhPFziPx2Hm4uyadTiVYXAoTEvUvNQ0Tmk_D0HA@mail.gmail.com>

I don't generally align stuff, either, but if you're going to, use spaces.

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 4:55 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 8:50 AM, Nathan Ernst <nathan.ernst at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > My rule of thumb: tabs for indentation, spaces for alignment (i.e. trying
> > to line up anything after a non-whitespace character on a single line).
>
> My rule of thumb: tabs for indentation, and don't align stuff after
> non-whitespace :)
>
> ChrisA
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 18:01:31 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 09:01:31 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAPjBxg_zw26DhPFziPx2Hm4uyadTiVYXAoTEvUvNQ0Tmk_D0HA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
 <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPjBxg8FnLf_PsBqxnv4cz3E_=vq8OF-FySd00ZbCWmVcgNgSQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmob4zhDyoQOjhEi17dA=Y_TfLHHiLz2fXs_hLxcruDhtA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPjBxg_zw26DhPFziPx2Hm4uyadTiVYXAoTEvUvNQ0Tmk_D0HA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpJ=MU++fazg=orisAw8De+q027FxfFJjNOUo48h1EQWw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Nathan Ernst <nathan.ernst at gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't generally align stuff, either, but if you're going to, use spaces.

The most interesting coder in the world.

https://imgflip.com/i/1lo0wl

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 18:15:29 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 09:15:29 +1100
Subject: cryptography default_backend is "hazmat"?
In-Reply-To: <oakain$avc$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <oakain$avc$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpfe75C_W5x32fmyTk1zS_Dr6sBm48uE4sR+2ZsqCFmow@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Ian Pilcher <arequipeno at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yet another newbie question/observation ...
>
> So every example I can find of using python-cryptography includes a
> call to cryptography.hazmat.backends.default_backend().  Of course, the
> documentation at https://cryptography.io/en/latest/hazmat/backends/
> says:
>
>   ! Danger
>
>   This is a ?Hazardous Materials? module. You should ONLY use it if
>   you?re 100% absolutely sure that you know what you?re doing because
>   this module is full of land mines, dragons, and dinosaurs with laser
>   guns.
>
> Anyone else see a conflict here?

Not necessarily. I don't know about that exact example, but let me
give you a couple of others.

1) exec and eval. Very dangerous. Do not use them in production code
unless you know what you're doing.

Where do you find exec used? In namedtuple. Yep. Every time you create
a namedtuple, it exec's a big block of code with interpolated bits to
make your stuff happen. Is namedtuple dangerous because it uses exec?
No, because namedtuple has been well-written and is maintained with
care.

2) cffi, ctypes, extension libraries, etc - untrusted access to C
code. Incredibly dangerous, because you can mess up refcounts in
CPython, your code can't be ported to other Pythons without a lot of
care, and you can break things in ways you wouldn't even have thought
possible (try redefining the value of the integer 1 - Python gets
confused in a very short space of time).

Where are they used? All over the place. All over the place. Poke
around on PyPI and you'll find a ton of great modules that are written
in C (and not using Cython), and the Python community hasn't collapsed
under their collective fragility yet. Are they dangerous? Well, yes,
in the sense that certain types of bugs can segfault the interpreter
rather than raising an exception - but your code isn't more dangerous
because you type "import psycopg2".


So the question is: How well do you trust the examples? Are they
likely to be instructing you in a safe way to use this
potentially-dangerous module?

ChrisA


From arequipeno at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 18:27:39 2017
From: arequipeno at gmail.com (Ian Pilcher)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 17:27:39 -0500
Subject: cryptography default_backend is "hazmat"?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpfe75C_W5x32fmyTk1zS_Dr6sBm48uE4sR+2ZsqCFmow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <oakain$avc$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmpfe75C_W5x32fmyTk1zS_Dr6sBm48uE4sR+2ZsqCFmow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oakc8l$ig2$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 03/18/2017 05:15 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> So the question is: How well do you trust the examples? Are they
> likely to be instructing you in a safe way to use this
> potentially-dangerous module?

But as far as I can tell, there's no way to use many of the non-hazmat
functions (e.g. parsing a certificate) without a backend, and all of the
backends are "hazmat".

So what's the point of marking something as hazmat, if a large portion
of the rest of the module can't be used without it?

-- 
========================================================================
Ian Pilcher                                         arequipeno at gmail.com
-------- "I grew up before Mark Zuckerberg invented friendship" --------
========================================================================



From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 18:32:14 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 23:32:14 +0100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAP1rxO7QkwDz5tKrTC4-xo-mar-_O1CEXUVXqZKdZ-fv0nXTfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1rxO7QkwDz5tKrTC4-xo-mar-_O1CEXUVXqZKdZ-fv0nXTfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRDwFk_ToOA3C9f_-guMJg1zSqmwD4=bwLJ_kbU4ZB9Jsw@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 March 2017 at 21:19, Bob Gailer <bgailer at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 17, 2017 9:23 PM, "Mikhail V" <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> So Python supports both spaces and tabs for indentation.
>>
>> I just wonder, why not forbid spaces in the beginning of lines?
>> How would one come to the idea to use spaces for indentation at all?
>
> One problem for me with tabs: there is no standard visual representation (1
> tab = ? Spaces)

Hi Bob,
The rendering of each character, including tab character is up to the
renderer, i.e. editor or IDE. This means, if the editor supports
customisations, then you can define the width of the tabs.
With more advanced rendering, editor can 'know' if it is
a preceding (indent) tab or some other indentation, e.g.
multiline list definition (e.g. 'elastic tabs', but that is more
about future). In VIM I set the tab width = 4 spaces
and VIM is a monospaced-only editor.

>>
>> Space is not even a control/format character, but a word separator.
>
> Huh? The character sets I'm familiar with don't have "word separators".
> Space is just another no -control character.

Yes that is what I mean. So it is quite logical to use a tab, i.e. different
character than space for this specific case, 1 char for 1 level.

>
>> And when editors will be proportional font based
>
> Editors allow your choice of font. Some are proportional, some monospaced. I
> fail to see any benefit from making a proportional-only font based editor.

Well, if there will be a decent IDE/editor with realistic font
rendering and good tabs mangement, I will not ever
want to switch back to a monospaced font.
So put another way, there will be no need to use
a monospaced font.
And if one uses spaces to indent e.g. multiline list with proportional
font, then it is not possible to achieve exact alignment.
Anyway, why use space? space is space, a character for
specific usage.
Also if I increase the font size I don;t necesserily want to increase
the tab width.

I treat monospaced editors more as an anachronism,
I mean of course only the 'visual' component.
So VIM, despite its monospaced nature, is for me high
above all products I've tested so far, if speak about input, editing.


From arthur.darcet+list at m4x.org  Sat Mar 18 18:42:49 2017
From: arthur.darcet+list at m4x.org (Arthur Darcet)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 22:42:49 +0000
Subject: cryptography default_backend is "hazmat"?
In-Reply-To: <oakc8l$ig2$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <oakain$avc$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmpfe75C_W5x32fmyTk1zS_Dr6sBm48uE4sR+2ZsqCFmow@mail.gmail.com>
 <oakc8l$ig2$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAOwXji4AOsuPXAXQpCoByC_Hu0S3VJc=wjAcN2GfJNm_DGDuEQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 at 23:29, Ian Pilcher <arequipeno at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 03/18/2017 05:15 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > So the question is: How well do you trust the examples? Are they
> > likely to be instructing you in a safe way to use this
> > potentially-dangerous module?
>
> But as far as I can tell, there's no way to use many of the non-hazmat
> functions (e.g. parsing a certificate) without a backend, and all of the
> backends are "hazmat".
>
> So what's the point of marking something as hazmat, if a large portion
> of the rest of the module can't be used without it?
>

If I'm not mistaken, the hazmat module contains functions that are easy to
misuse, which is why they are hazardous.
Using those same functions through the "safe" part of the library isn't
dangerous




> --
> ========================================================================
> Ian Pilcher                                         arequipeno at gmail.com
> -------- "I grew up before Mark Zuckerberg invented friendship" --------
> ========================================================================
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From nathan.ernst at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 19:16:31 2017
From: nathan.ernst at gmail.com (Nathan Ernst)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 18:16:31 -0500
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
Message-ID: <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 4:44 PM, ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN <dvl at psu.edu>
wrote:

> Just a couple minor notes from my experience:
>
> 1)
> Some of the course management software I use doesn't like me typing tab
> characters.
> When I want to post sample code into a course page using this software,
> tabs
> are either
> ignored or does something really broken (like post an incomplete file).
> So, I
> must necessarily
> type spaces when posting that code -- and of course, downloading that
> sample
> from the page
> has spaces in it instead of tabs.
>
> Point in favor of using spaces.
>

Then your course management software is broken, and should be fixed. This
is not a valid argument against tabs, although it may make it more
convenient to use spaces for you.


> 2)
> Tabs are one byte; spaces are one byte; so unless all of your indents are
> only
> one space at a time,
> a source file with tabs takes less memory than a source file with tabs.
> It's not a significant difference.
>
> Very minor point in favor of using tabs.
>
> I'm still a spacer myself.
>
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


The size of tab vs space is a novel argument, but generally specious. Yes,
it may matter in certain circumstances, but it's not generally valid (and I
say this with a tab preferrence).

As I said earlier, where tabs are superior in that most code focused
editors (at least those worth using) allow you to adjust the width of the
tab. I'm not aware of a single editor that allows you to adjust the
indentation of multiple spaces, let alone in the face of sources with mixed
space indentations in the same codebase. Again, I've seen 2, 3 and 4 spaced
identations. Really f***ing annoying to see that in a single codebase. It's
even worse when you get files edited by two different people with different
styles and their white space changes happen to work because the entire
block is within their preferred style. (yes, I've seen 3-spaced indents
mixed with 2-spaced idents and 4-spaced indents all within a single file!)
Tabs rectify this issue as you can configure them to appear how you like to
see your code without affecting or impacting any other contributors to a
code base.

Personally, I used to be a 4-spacer. Now, I prefer 2 spaces. Guess what?
When I changed my preference, zero lines of source were changed, no commits
were necessary, and I was happy.


From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Mar 18 19:20:03 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 01:20:03 +0200
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
 <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPjBxg8FnLf_PsBqxnv4cz3E_=vq8OF-FySd00ZbCWmVcgNgSQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmob4zhDyoQOjhEi17dA=Y_TfLHHiLz2fXs_hLxcruDhtA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.21.1489874124.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87d1dejhp8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
> My rule of thumb: tabs for indentation, and don't align stuff after
> non-whitespace :)

I always use the "Tab" key to indent, but I don't allow the file to
contain any ASCII HT characters. The only control character in my files
is the LF. The only exception would be plain text files that I paginate
using the FF before sending them to the printer.


Marko


From robertoshea2k11 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 19:20:28 2017
From: robertoshea2k11 at gmail.com (Robert O'Shea)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 23:20:28 +0000
Subject: Where to start in the field of AI with Python
Message-ID: <CAFkm8ZEh3xGC17JJUHf37LpaAzNOm87a88_x0F8cQ0p=uMETGg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I've been given a good bit of free time at the moment and I really want to
get into the field of AI with my time.

I just want to get into the basics for the moment, eventually getting into
stuff like machine learning and NLP (Natural Language Processing).

I was wondering if any of you fine people know some good resources of where
to start as I'm finding it hard to procure decent content. If any of you
know of any resources in the field please send them my way.

Regards,
Robert


From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Mar 18 19:38:01 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 01:38:01 +0200
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1489878995.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8760j6jgva.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Nathan Ernst <nathan.ernst at gmail.com>:

> Tabs rectify this issue as you can configure them to appear how you
> like to see your code without affecting or impacting any other
> contributors to a code base.
>
> Personally, I used to be a 4-spacer. Now, I prefer 2 spaces. Guess
> what? When I changed my preference, zero lines of source were changed,
> no commits were necessary, and I was happy.

Your scheme is thrown into disarray by the default emacs setup, which
defines C source code indendation levels as follows:

   Level 1: SPC SPC
   Level 2: SPC SPC SPC SPC
   Level 3: SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC
   Level 4: HT
   Level 5: HT SPC SPC

etc.

(You see, in emacs pressing the Tab key is a command to indent the
current line by the "appropriate amount;" it doesn't cause an HT to be
inserted.)

Point is, something's going to have to give, no matter what you do. You
are going to have to issue a binding executive order that is not an
automatic default for everybody.

Where I work, the executive order is: no HT's in files, and use 4-space
indentation.


Marko


From nathan.ernst at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 20:01:42 2017
From: nathan.ernst at gmail.com (Nathan Ernst)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 19:01:42 -0500
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <8760j6jgva.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1489878995.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <8760j6jgva.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPjBxg_v=1sQra4smhKgQJy1KtMhB5JtEJsKK+pWk+8Jc1OVRA@mail.gmail.com>

emacs, like Vim is very configurable. I'm sure there's an appropriate
setting.

Because 1 editor does it one way, doesn't mean the rest of the numerous
editors should follow suit.

Personally, I dislike any editor that, by default, changes my input to
something else. If I hit tab, I want a tab to be inserted, by default. If I
want something else, I'll change the configuration.

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 6:38 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:

> Nathan Ernst <nathan.ernst at gmail.com>:
>
> > Tabs rectify this issue as you can configure them to appear how you
> > like to see your code without affecting or impacting any other
> > contributors to a code base.
> >
> > Personally, I used to be a 4-spacer. Now, I prefer 2 spaces. Guess
> > what? When I changed my preference, zero lines of source were changed,
> > no commits were necessary, and I was happy.
>
> Your scheme is thrown into disarray by the default emacs setup, which
> defines C source code indendation levels as follows:
>
>    Level 1: SPC SPC
>    Level 2: SPC SPC SPC SPC
>    Level 3: SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC
>    Level 4: HT
>    Level 5: HT SPC SPC
>
> etc.
>
> (You see, in emacs pressing the Tab key is a command to indent the
> current line by the "appropriate amount;" it doesn't cause an HT to be
> inserted.)
>
> Point is, something's going to have to give, no matter what you do. You
> are going to have to issue a binding executive order that is not an
> automatic default for everybody.
>
> Where I work, the executive order is: no HT's in files, and use 4-space
> indentation.
>
>
> Marko
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Sat Mar 18 20:32:22 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 11:32:22 +1100
Subject: Tabs are a security vulnerabilty [was Re: Who are the "spacists"?]
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <oajnak$57p$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.15.1489854642.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58cdd198$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 03:30 am, Grant Edwards wrote:

> tabs are a major security vulnerability and should be outlawed
> in all source code.


I've heard many arguments both in favour of and against tabs, but I've never
heard them described as a security vulnerability before. Let alone a major
one.

Got a citation or some more information?



-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From steve+python at pearwood.info  Sat Mar 18 20:39:43 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 11:39:43 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
 <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.19.1489872267.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58cdd351$0$1586$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 08:24 am, Mikhail V wrote:

> There can be some problems, say in one class a teacher says: never
> use tabs, in other class a teacher says: don't use spaces.
> Who is right?

Neither is right, both are wrong, and the students have just learned a
valuable lesson: authority figures can be mistaken, they can be ignorant,
and they can spread superstition.


> This is not a major problem, but technically seen using tabs
> is more logical way, but de-facto spaces are recommended.

Yes, I agree 100% with that.


> I've noticed a tendency that more and more users
> choose tabs. 

Have you really? I've noticed the opposite.


> Indeed if you think about it, using several spaces for 
> one level of indentation is ridiculous 

Is it?

Is it also ridiculous to use several newlines to space paragraphs
vertically?




-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Mar 18 20:52:54 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 02:52:54 +0200
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1489878995.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <8760j6jgva.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPjBxg_v=1sQra4smhKgQJy1KtMhB5JtEJsKK+pWk+8Jc1OVRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.30.1489881711.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <871stujdeh.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Nathan Ernst <nathan.ernst at gmail.com>:

> emacs, like Vim is very configurable. I'm sure there's an appropriate
> setting.
>
> Because 1 editor does it one way, doesn't mean the rest of the
> numerous editors should follow suit.

Correct. There's no universal standard so we have to declare a local one.

I have defined:

    (custom-set-variables
     '(indent-tabs-mode nil))

meaning: don't indent using ASCII HT characters.

> Personally, I dislike any editor that, by default, changes my input to
> something else. If I hit tab, I want a tab to be inserted, by default.
> If I want something else, I'll change the configuration.

Well, I have yet to find an editor that gives no interpretation to the
keys. For example, typing the "Esc" key in vi's insert mode will not
place an ESC character in the file. And even vi puts an LF in your file
if you should press the "Enter" key.

Of course, you are free to like or dislike any editor you want.


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 20:56:10 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 11:56:10 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <58cdd351$0$1586$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
 <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.19.1489872267.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cdd351$0$1586$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpbCeAWKkq0zC9Kf6ksprTo9AdW4kvzhK9z1OvoaT+M1g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Steve D'Aprano
<steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> Indeed if you think about it, using several spaces for
>> one level of indentation is ridiculous
>
> Is it?
>
> Is it also ridiculous to use several newlines to space paragraphs
> vertically?

At least with paragraphs, we don't have eternal debates between people
who think they should have four newlines, three newlines, or.... oh
wait, there is debate between two and one....

ChrisA


From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Mar 18 21:05:53 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 03:05:53 +0200
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
 <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.19.1489872267.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cdd351$0$1586$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmpbCeAWKkq0zC9Kf6ksprTo9AdW4kvzhK9z1OvoaT+M1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.31.1489884978.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87tw6qhy8e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Steve D'Aprano
> <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> Is it also ridiculous to use several newlines to space paragraphs
>> vertically?
>
> At least with paragraphs, we don't have eternal debates between people
> who think they should have four newlines, three newlines, or.... oh
> wait, there is debate between two and one....

Some people like fluffy source code:

    def f():

        "doc"

        # Code follows

        x = calculate_some()

        return x + 1

Me, I like it compact:

    def f():
        "doc"
        # Code follows
        x = calculate_some()
        return x + 1

Not to worry! Just use VT characters to indicate vertical space and
configure your editor to display it with your favorite number of empty
pixels.

Thankfully, the use of VT characters in source code has experienced a
200% increase in recent years.


Marko


From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 23:12:34 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 04:12:34 +0100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <58cdd351$0$1586$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
 <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.19.1489872267.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cdd351$0$1586$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRCLVYLgRbPXg4hqTOy+eFRZie+iL+SkzuND2nUJ_t=DaA@mail.gmail.com>

> On 19 March 2017 at 01:39, Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 08:24 am, Mikhail V wrote:
>>
>> I've noticed a tendency that more and more users
>> choose tabs.

>Have you really? I've noticed the opposite.

Not *really*, but on stackoverflow more and more
answers recommending tabs are upvoted. Few years ago
IIRC I noticed merely upvoted PEP citations.
Of my friends, I know those who use Sublime editor
on Macs, use tabs, probably spaces cause issues there, IDK.
Younger people today have more
and more previous experience with digital documents
and already familiar with the concept of tabulation.
Also after one tries to move the cursor around line
beginnings and try to delete or add indentation,
with spaces it is not so easy.
On the other hand I've noticed that spacists are
for some reason quite active in the web and at times even
agressive, writing that tabs are 'cancer' and so on.

>> Indeed if you think about it, using several spaces for
>> one level of indentation is ridiculous

>Is it?

Yes it is. In the times of DOS it felt totally ok
to indent e.g. 2 spaces, but those were text mode apps
on small resolution screens. Now one wants more than 2
spaces for sure, and for Python specifically, the intuitive
wish is to use one tab for one indentation level, since
one already knows that indentation is important and
despite spaces work, those are not control characters.
The point is that spaces are not supposed for indentation
regardless if it is code or MS Word document, at least
in the modern world.

This reminds me of Lexicon:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexicon_(program)
It is a DOS text-mode word processor, to make full line justify
it inserts additional spaces between words.
All those space alignments is more about ASCII art.


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Sun Mar 19 01:48:07 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 16:48:07 +1100
Subject: Redmonk language rankings
Message-ID: <58ce1b99$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

Redmonk have announced their language rankings for January 2017, and Python
has moved up to third most popular language:

http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2017/03/17/language-rankings-1-17/


Note that the way Redmonk calculate the rankings have changed, so you cannot
directly compare the previous ranking with these.

Other languages of note:

- Rust, Typescript and Powershell are three languages showing high levels of
growth in popularity;

- Despite entering the "Trough Of Disillusionment" phase of the hype cycle,
Swift's popularity continues to grow.




-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From pavol.lisy at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 01:53:28 2017
From: pavol.lisy at gmail.com (Pavol Lisy)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 06:53:28 +0100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAPjBxg8FnLf_PsBqxnv4cz3E_=vq8OF-FySd00ZbCWmVcgNgSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
 <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPjBxg8FnLf_PsBqxnv4cz3E_=vq8OF-FySd00ZbCWmVcgNgSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABDEq2=cBDAq64hrretiH0=BHqDhh4hjFwhQUom_rdGKtpRPsg@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/18/17, Nathan Ernst <nathan.ernst at gmail.com> wrote:
> My issue with using spaces instead of tabs, is that, as mentioned earlier
> in the thread, everyone has their own preferences on indentation. I've
> worked on teams where different developers used 2, 3 & 4 spaces as
> indentation. Obviously, if you're using spaces, several of the members will
> be unhappy.
>
> Tabs have the benefit that most editors used by developers allow the
> adjustment of the width of a tab. If you use tabs, everyone can be happy
> with the visual presentation of their code.
>
> My rule of thumb: tabs for indentation, spaces for alignment (i.e. trying
> to line up anything after a non-whitespace character on a single line).
>
> Regards,
> Nathan

Everyone has their own preferences how to display tabs (2, 3, 4 spaces?).

How could alignment look in case of mixed tabs and spaces? Everybody
will be happy?

In case of spaces there is not discrepancy. pep8 and similar linters
could work fine without incompatible configurations.

PL.

PS. I am "spacist" :P but I feel this a little more aggressive than is
necessary too:

> Feel free to start your own discussion forum for your new programming
> language that forbids spaces for indentation. That language will never
> be Python, so please don't ask us to discuss it here.

I think there could be enough time to deprecate now and forbid tabs
(or spaces) as indentation in python4.

That doesn't mean I propose that! I only think that this transition
could be technically possible so discussion is not necessary useless.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 02:32:06 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 17:32:06 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CABDEq2=cBDAq64hrretiH0=BHqDhh4hjFwhQUom_rdGKtpRPsg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
 <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPjBxg8FnLf_PsBqxnv4cz3E_=vq8OF-FySd00ZbCWmVcgNgSQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABDEq2=cBDAq64hrretiH0=BHqDhh4hjFwhQUom_rdGKtpRPsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqQ4O_ket2XtN5=ZTgwVrnpJr=qw_-gxJVx_L5Nh6uoPA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Pavol Lisy <pavol.lisy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Everyone has their own preferences how to display tabs (2, 3, 4 spaces?).

Exactly, and they're welcome to them.

> How could alignment look in case of mixed tabs and spaces? Everybody
> will be happy?

Don't do that. Ever. In any language.

> In case of spaces there is not discrepancy. pep8 and similar linters
> could work fine without incompatible configurations.

I don't like the pep8 tool; its name implies far more authority than
it actually has. But if you look at the rules Python 3 applies, or
Python 2 with "-tt", you should easily be able to comply.

ChrisA


From pavol.lisy at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 04:00:01 2017
From: pavol.lisy at gmail.com (Pavol Lisy)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 09:00:01 +0100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CABDEq2=cBDAq64hrretiH0=BHqDhh4hjFwhQUom_rdGKtpRPsg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
 <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPjBxg8FnLf_PsBqxnv4cz3E_=vq8OF-FySd00ZbCWmVcgNgSQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABDEq2=cBDAq64hrretiH0=BHqDhh4hjFwhQUom_rdGKtpRPsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABDEq2khoQ-tuYx74oRU0MctpV79PgYwkU5WYNXHHupd_xqdUQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/19/17, Pavol Lisy <pavol.lisy at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/18/17, Nathan Ernst <nathan.ernst at gmail.com> wrote:

> PS. I am "spacist" :P but I feel this a little more aggressive than is
> necessary too:
>
>> Feel free to start your own discussion forum for your new programming
>> language that forbids spaces for indentation. That language will never
>> be Python, so please don't ask us to discuss it here.
>
> I think there could be enough time to deprecate now and forbid tabs
> (or spaces) as indentation in python4.
>
> That doesn't mean I propose that! I only think that this transition
> could be technically possible so discussion is not necessary useless.

Sorry here I forgot to mention that citation above is from Ben
Finney's mail and not from Nathan's!

Anyway. I just made a simple and primitive analyze:

re.findall('^ '...) and re.findall('^\t'...) for more than 100k
py-files discoverable by find / -name "*.py" on my (ubuntu 16.04)
computer.

Anybody could see that it incorrectly finds lines in multiline strings
(and has maybe much more flaws) but it could be probably still
interesting.

there are:
127 837 files where at least one line starts with space
   2 273 files where at least one line starts with tab
   1 192 files where are lines which starts with space and lines which
starts with tab

and there are:
35 144 893 lines which starts with space
   428 160 lines which starts with tab

PL.


From pavol.lisy at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 04:24:52 2017
From: pavol.lisy at gmail.com (Pavol Lisy)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 09:24:52 +0100
Subject: About linters and PEP-8
Message-ID: <CABDEq2nkw7n7QE4ct3jH4LueTJPcE1oAiVT9w+qwi7dxcUX5kw@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/19/17, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Pavol Lisy <pavol.lisy at gmail.com> wrote:

>> In case of spaces there is not discrepancy. pep8 and similar linters
>> could work fine without incompatible configurations.

> I don't like the pep8 tool; its name implies far more authority than
> it actually has. But if you look at the rules Python 3 applies, or
> Python 2 with "-tt", you should easily be able to comply.

There was discussion on python-idea about duplicity in dict definition.

   {"a": "foo", "a": "bar"}

Conclusion was that it is not an error and anybody could use linters
for finding it. For example pylint could do it. Modern editors could
do linting parallel to editing and many people use it.

I think - I couldn't like everything what pep8 or pylint or any others
do. But it is some kind of responsibility to write codes, which do not
produce plenty of warnings. (because they could hide warning like
duplicity in dict)

And I think that significance of linters could grow as machine
learning will evolve. So if there is something wrong about PEP-8 maybe
there is some work for us to improve it.

PL.


From list at qtrac.plus.com  Sun Mar 19 05:22:00 2017
From: list at qtrac.plus.com (Mark Summerfield)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 02:22:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Error installing python on Windows
In-Reply-To: <o8pu1t$pd9$1@dont-email.me>
References: <CAFcQNKvb_3DBvzBJKOo1wsqzLPnHc=mUL_GyKFdoFqU64zPK1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.40.1487941901.2612.python-list@python.org>
 <58b0779b$0$740$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
 <o8pu1t$pd9$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <6003cf2d-c49f-48e7-9648-62b030ce41cc@googlegroups.com>

Windows users (quite reasonably IMO) expect installs to "just work".

If Python needs extra bits it should ask the user if it can go get them and if they say Yes it should do just that. (And this should actually work -- unlike maybe, the Python 3.5 Windows installer.)

And as for searching Google for error messages, sure, experienced programmers do this, but many people come to Python as first-time programmers and don't realise.

The fact that Michelle asked on this list shows that she made an effort that I suspect many people wouldn't bother making -- I can't help wondering how many new people have been lost to Python since the new installer.

My experience has been that the new Python windows installer is less convenient than the old one. For example, with Python 3.6.0 64-bit on Windows the registry has to be fixed to be able to install popular packages like pywin32 (as well as less popular but excellent ones like apsw).

Furthermore, the old and new installers offer the choice of "install just for you" or "install for everyone on the machine" but give no explanation of what difference this makes. If you install for everyone, you'll find that pip won't work. (OK, sure it'll work, providing you use the --user option, but how many people will realise that --user means "install for me"?)


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 07:20:07 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 22:20:07 +1100
Subject: About linters and PEP-8
In-Reply-To: <CABDEq2nkw7n7QE4ct3jH4LueTJPcE1oAiVT9w+qwi7dxcUX5kw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABDEq2nkw7n7QE4ct3jH4LueTJPcE1oAiVT9w+qwi7dxcUX5kw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpBjOakwGsqjjMn1uHByNBC_w+aXn-Ab4Jv75FCWNeDQA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 7:24 PM, Pavol Lisy <pavol.lisy at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/19/17, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Pavol Lisy <pavol.lisy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> In case of spaces there is not discrepancy. pep8 and similar linters
>>> could work fine without incompatible configurations.
>
>> I don't like the pep8 tool; its name implies far more authority than
>> it actually has. But if you look at the rules Python 3 applies, or
>> Python 2 with "-tt", you should easily be able to comply.
>
> There was discussion on python-idea about duplicity in dict definition.
>
>    {"a": "foo", "a": "bar"}
>
> Conclusion was that it is not an error and anybody could use linters
> for finding it. For example pylint could do it. Modern editors could
> do linting parallel to editing and many people use it.
>
> I think - I couldn't like everything what pep8 or pylint or any others
> do. But it is some kind of responsibility to write codes, which do not
> produce plenty of warnings. (because they could hide warning like
> duplicity in dict)
>
> And I think that significance of linters could grow as machine
> learning will evolve. So if there is something wrong about PEP-8 maybe
> there is some work for us to improve it.

I'm not sure what your point is, or why you're responding to my post
to make it, so I'll clarify what I was saying:

The tool "pep8" is inappropriately named. No linter should use this
name. It implies a level of authority by linking with a very specific
document.

Now, the tool itself may well be a brilliant linter. That's fine, and
linters are excellent. But saying "a linter should be able to catch
this error" should not have people immediately turn around and say
"then PEP 8 should have a rule about this". And that's what seems to
happen when the tool and the document are too tightly linked.

http://rosuav.blogspot.com/2016/04/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about.html

PEP 8 is a very specific-purpose document: it is a set of rules which
govern the Python standard library. It so happens that, like many
other style guides, it can be adopted for other projects (just as the
airbnb style guide is adopted by a lot of JavaScript projects, and the
GNU style guide can be used for non-GNU projects), but it's still a
document aimed at humans. Here is its most important section:

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/#a-foolish-consistency-is-the-hobgoblin-of-little-minds

Start by disconnecting the style guide from the linter. A piece of
code may fulfil every rule in your guide, but still be flagged by the
linter; or it can pass the linter's check, but still fail code review
because it violates a rule of style. (Example of the latter:
inconsistent naming of similar concepts. No linter can understand that
X.foo and Y.bar mean the same thing.) Enhancements to the style guide
and enhancements to the linter are thus completely independent, and
serve different (though related) purposes.

ChrisA


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 10:23:55 2017
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 14:23:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
 <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPjBxg8FnLf_PsBqxnv4cz3E_=vq8OF-FySd00ZbCWmVcgNgSQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmob4zhDyoQOjhEi17dA=Y_TfLHHiLz2fXs_hLxcruDhtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oam49r$is4$2@blaine.gmane.org>

On 2017-03-18, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 8:50 AM, Nathan Ernst <nathan.ernst at gmail.com> wrote:
>> My rule of thumb: tabs for indentation, spaces for alignment (i.e. trying
>> to line up anything after a non-whitespace character on a single line).
>
> My rule of thumb: tabs for indentation, and don't align stuff after
> non-whitespace :)

Aligning columns in tables of data make it far easier to read/edit.

-- 
Grant





From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 10:27:42 2017
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 14:27:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>

On 2017-03-18, Nathan Ernst <nathan.ernst at gmail.com> wrote:

> As I said earlier, where tabs are superior in that most code focused
> editors (at least those worth using) allow you to adjust the width of the
> tab.

What about all other other text tools that _aren't_ 'code focused
editors'?  (e.g. grep, less, cat, awk, sed, a2ps, asciidoc, etc.)

> I'm not aware of a single editor that allows you to adjust the
> indentation of multiple spaces, let alone in the face of sources with mixed
> space indentations in the same codebase.

So the only thing that ever touches your code is that one editor?

-- 
Grant



From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 12:02:05 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 17:02:05 +0100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <87tw6qhy8e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
 <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.19.1489872267.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cdd351$0$1586$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmpbCeAWKkq0zC9Kf6ksprTo9AdW4kvzhK9z1OvoaT+M1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.31.1489884978.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <87tw6qhy8e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRDMSno55TK-=UQeqDiSaK=yAGKbaHr6ePQNsJaXHvRCQg@mail.gmail.com>

On 19 March 2017 at 02:05, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
>
>> On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Steve D'Aprano
>> <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>> Is it also ridiculous to use several newlines to space paragraphs
>>> vertically?
>>
>> At least with paragraphs, we don't have eternal debates between people
>> who think they should have four newlines, three newlines, or.... oh
>> wait, there is debate between two and one....
>
> Some people like fluffy source code:
>
>     def f():
>
>         "doc"
>
>         # Code follows
>
>         x = calculate_some()
>
>         return x + 1
>

BTW, this was a good option, if one worked in
such text modes where lines are so close to
each other, that it was too hard to read anything.
So it would be not 'fluffy' but actually normal
spacing. Thankfully modern tools allow
configuring the line spacing.


From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Sun Mar 19 12:14:56 2017
From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 16:14:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Where to start in the field of AI with Python
References: <CAFkm8ZEh3xGC17JJUHf37LpaAzNOm87a88_x0F8cQ0p=uMETGg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.33.1489893342.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oamapu$1jlq$1@gioia.aioe.org>

Robert O'Shea <robertoshea2k11 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just want to get into the basics for the moment, eventually getting into
> stuff like machine learning and NLP (Natural Language Processing).

You cannot do wrong by starting with NLTK (https://www.nltk.org/) and
scikit (http://scikit-learn.org/)

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 12:52:20 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 17:52:20 +0100
Subject: Tabs are a security vulnerabilty [was Re: Who are the "spacists"?]
In-Reply-To: <58cdd198$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <oajnak$57p$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.15.1489854642.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cdd198$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRCb1WuiOY9K10GAnjJFcAu0EpT=_OcB7RVo94K0nUz5iQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 19 March 2017 at 01:32, Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 03:30 am, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> tabs are a major security vulnerability and should be outlawed
>> in all source code.
>
>
> I've heard many arguments both in favour of and against tabs, but I've never
> heard them described as a security vulnerability before. Let alone a major
> one.
>
> Got a citation or some more information?

Double that, I've googled and did not find anything.
Also it is not clear, since vulnerability can be only
for a particular executable that does something
with a file, not the file itslef.
I've heard some arguments aginst tabs also, but
it turned out that most of them are even not real.


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Sun Mar 19 13:29:22 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 04:29:22 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 01:27 am, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2017-03-18, Nathan Ernst <nathan.ernst at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> As I said earlier, where tabs are superior in that most code focused
>> editors (at least those worth using) allow you to adjust the width of the
>> tab.
> 
> What about all other other text tools that _aren't_ 'code focused
> editors'?  (e.g. grep, less, cat, awk, sed, a2ps, asciidoc, etc.)

I wonder whether the tabs versus spaces divide is closely aligned to the
Windows versus Unix/Linux divide?

It seems to me that Unix users are typically going to be using Unix tools
which often assume spaces are used for indentation, and consequently cope
badly with tabs. I maintain that makes them "broken" tools, but broken or
not, that's the status quo and Unix users will simply deal with it by using
spaces for indents.

On the other hand, the typical Windows developer probably has little or no
access to grep, less, sed, etc, and consequently doesn't fear using tabs in
source code. Since nothing is going to touch it apart from either Notepad
or the IDE, there's no problem with using tabs.

Back when dinosaurs ruled the earth, and I had a Macintosh (classic OS, not
OS X) it was normal to use tabs for indents. Likewise when I had a Windows
machine. It was only when I moved to Linux that I had "tabs are bad,
m'kay?" beaten into me, with the main justification being "tabs will break
your tools".

I'm not even sure that it is true that tabs will break the Unix toolset. But
Unix users mostly *believe* it is true.



-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From alain at universite-de-strasbourg.fr.invalid  Sun Mar 19 13:34:54 2017
From: alain at universite-de-strasbourg.fr.invalid (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 18:34:54 +0100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <oajnak$57p$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.15.1489854642.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnocqqr7.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <87efxt1875.fsf@universite-de-strasbourg.fr.invalid>

Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu> writes:

> On 2017-03-18, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2017-03-18, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> How would one come to the idea to use spaces for indentation at all?
>>
>> Because tabs are a major security vulnerability and should be outlawed
>> in all source code.
>
> You forgot to mention that tabs are carcinogenic, can be addictive,
> and hate our freedoms. If we use them, the terrorists win. Tabs can
> settle during transit, and may contain traces of nuts. Tabs should
> not be folded, spindled or mutilated. Tabs are vicious if wounded.
> Remember, kids: Just Say No to the Invisible Menace.

And US government officials call them "alternative spaces".
Enough said.

-- Alain.

P/S: just in case: https://www.jwz.org/doc/tabs-vs-spaces.html


From saxri89 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 13:38:09 2017
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 10:38:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python script  Non-ASCII character
Message-ID: <2d71de91-6299-459d-b477-60d8b4cbc0f1@googlegroups.com>

hello i have create a python script when read some files using paths and do something with that files.
if that paths for files is in english likes this "c:/my_path/english " then python script  working but if that paths is in my main language or the path have some blank character then not working and i take that error :

SyntaxError: Non-ASCII character '\xce' in file Untitled_.py on line 15, but no encoding declared; 

can i fix that in python 2.7.13 ? can i find some solution to python read paths in my main language or paths with blanks?



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 15:00:33 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 06:00:33 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqGt25ruxifTF-zxh8tJ=0EjJo1GwS6yQ1KRVTLe=js_Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 4:29 AM, Steve D'Aprano
<steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> I wonder whether the tabs versus spaces divide is closely aligned to the
> Windows versus Unix/Linux divide?
>
> It seems to me that Unix users are typically going to be using Unix tools
> which often assume spaces are used for indentation, and consequently cope
> badly with tabs. I maintain that makes them "broken" tools, but broken or
> not, that's the status quo and Unix users will simply deal with it by using
> spaces for indents.

Nope. I'm on Linux and I love my tabs. They play fine with grep, diff,
etc. None of my tools has a problem with them.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 15:07:09 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 06:07:09 +1100
Subject: python script Non-ASCII character
In-Reply-To: <2d71de91-6299-459d-b477-60d8b4cbc0f1@googlegroups.com>
References: <2d71de91-6299-459d-b477-60d8b4cbc0f1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq4V+H0XeHA5Me92GK-P4v_Ws3-bMc4SNGbd3wg9ove5g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 4:38 AM, Xristos Xristoou <saxri89 at gmail.com> wrote:
> hello i have create a python script when read some files using paths and do something with that files.
> if that paths for files is in english likes this "c:/my_path/english " then python script  working but if that paths is in my main language or the path have some blank character then not working and i take that error :
>
> SyntaxError: Non-ASCII character '\xce' in file Untitled_.py on line 15, but no encoding declared;
>
> can i fix that in python 2.7.13 ? can i find some solution to python read paths in my main language or paths with blanks?

Based on your name, I'm guessing your main language is Greek. You
might be using a character encoding of ISO-8859-7. Or you might be
using UTF-8, which is a universal standard. Either way, the solution
is to declare the encoding (as the error hints).

The first thing I would recommend is switching to Python 3. This has a
number of benefits relating to non-ASCII source code, including that
UTF-8 is accepted automatically. That might fix your problem (\xce
mentioned in the message is the beginning of the UTF-8 encoding for
certain Greek letters), and if it doesn't, you can still declare the
encoding to be ISO-8859-7. But go with UTF-8 if you possibly can.

ChrisA


From saxri89 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 15:48:04 2017
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 12:48:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python script  Non-ASCII character
In-Reply-To: <2d71de91-6299-459d-b477-60d8b4cbc0f1@googlegroups.com>
References: <2d71de91-6299-459d-b477-60d8b4cbc0f1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5a032175-8e51-407a-aa28-5c1d9fd60918@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 19 ??????? 2017 - 7:38:19 ?.?. UTC+2, ? ??????? Xristos Xristoou ??????:

how to define my script with  encoding of ISO-8859-7 or  UTF-8?and for the blanks ?


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Mar 19 15:50:42 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 15:50:42 -0400
Subject: About linters and PEP-8
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpBjOakwGsqjjMn1uHByNBC_w+aXn-Ab4Jv75FCWNeDQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABDEq2nkw7n7QE4ct3jH4LueTJPcE1oAiVT9w+qwi7dxcUX5kw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpBjOakwGsqjjMn1uHByNBC_w+aXn-Ab4Jv75FCWNeDQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oamnec$uhi$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 3/19/2017 7:20 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:

> The tool "pep8" is inappropriately named. No linter should use this
> name. It implies a level of authority by linking with a very specific
> document.

At Guido's request, the name was changed to 'pycodestyle'.  See the note 
at the top of
https://pep8.readthedocs.io/en/release-1.7.x/

This really should be noted also at the top of
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pep8/1.7.0

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 15:56:10 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 06:56:10 +1100
Subject: python script Non-ASCII character
In-Reply-To: <5a032175-8e51-407a-aa28-5c1d9fd60918@googlegroups.com>
References: <2d71de91-6299-459d-b477-60d8b4cbc0f1@googlegroups.com>
 <5a032175-8e51-407a-aa28-5c1d9fd60918@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoxhfE0WaxvX7wDc32OPu8u_PNdmramvDmVjhB-wB4P7w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 6:48 AM, Xristos Xristoou <saxri89 at gmail.com> wrote:
> ?? ???????, 19 ??????? 2017 - 7:38:19 ?.?. UTC+2, ? ??????? Xristos Xristoou ??????:
>
> how to define my script with  encoding of ISO-8859-7 or  UTF-8?and for the blanks ?

First, try using Python 3. Most of the time, that will be the best
solution. I won't explain PEP 263 coding cookies until you've tried
that :)

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 15:57:46 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 06:57:46 +1100
Subject: About linters and PEP-8
In-Reply-To: <oamnec$uhi$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <CABDEq2nkw7n7QE4ct3jH4LueTJPcE1oAiVT9w+qwi7dxcUX5kw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpBjOakwGsqjjMn1uHByNBC_w+aXn-Ab4Jv75FCWNeDQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oamnec$uhi$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoxGoLpfzZ0cU0nt-xtvKrby_WtRBaUY=ZDPNhX4BLcUQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 6:50 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> On 3/19/2017 7:20 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> The tool "pep8" is inappropriately named. No linter should use this
>> name. It implies a level of authority by linking with a very specific
>> document.
>
>
> At Guido's request, the name was changed to 'pycodestyle'.  See the note at
> the top of
> https://pep8.readthedocs.io/en/release-1.7.x/
>
> This really should be noted also at the top of
> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pep8/1.7.0

Oh, good. I heard that he requested it, but the place I looked was the
PyPI landing page, so it looked like they were still using that name.

Sadly, it's still going to be "pip install pep8", isn't it :(

ChrisA


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Mar 19 16:01:54 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 16:01:54 -0400
Subject: python script Non-ASCII character
In-Reply-To: <2d71de91-6299-459d-b477-60d8b4cbc0f1@googlegroups.com>
References: <2d71de91-6299-459d-b477-60d8b4cbc0f1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <oamo3b$io3$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 3/19/2017 1:38 PM, Xristos Xristoou wrote:
> hello i have create a python script when read some files using paths and do something with that files.
> if that paths for files is in english likes this "c:/my_path/english " then python script  working but if that paths is in my main language

Non-ascii in a pathname and non-ascii within a file are different 
issues.  On Windows, non-ascii in pathnames did not work consistently 
until 3.2 or maybe 3.3.

 > or the path have some blank character then not working

This should not be a problem.  With 2.7.13:

 >>> f = open('c:/program files/7-zip/readme.txt')
 >>> print(f.read())
7-Zip 9.20
----------
...

> SyntaxError: Non-ASCII character '\xce' in file Untitled_.py on line 15, but no encoding declared;

This is non-ascii within a file.

> can i fix that in python 2.7.13 ? can i find some solution to python read paths in my main language or paths with blanks?

Chris gave the answer for within-file non-ascii: provide the encoding.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From saxri89 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 16:05:06 2017
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 13:05:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python script  Non-ASCII character
In-Reply-To: <2d71de91-6299-459d-b477-60d8b4cbc0f1@googlegroups.com>
References: <2d71de91-6299-459d-b477-60d8b4cbc0f1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7be219d8-bde7-4f91-8426-810b5ca3d8fc@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 19 ??????? 2017 - 7:38:19 ?.?. UTC+2, ? ??????? Xristos Xristoou ??????:
yes that i know but i need python 2.7 for my task

From saxri89 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 16:10:20 2017
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 13:10:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python script  Non-ASCII character
In-Reply-To: <2d71de91-6299-459d-b477-60d8b4cbc0f1@googlegroups.com>
References: <2d71de91-6299-459d-b477-60d8b4cbc0f1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a68eda44-d21e-4e3c-a9d2-e587070419b5@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 19 ??????? 2017 - 7:38:19 ?.?. UTC+2, ? ??????? Xristos Xristoou ??????:
@Terry non-ascii in pathnames i need for ex :var1="C:\Users\username\Desktop\my language\mylanguage\myfile" and for the blank ?

From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 16:11:31 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 21:11:31 +0100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAPjBxg8FnLf_PsBqxnv4cz3E_=vq8OF-FySd00ZbCWmVcgNgSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
 <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPjBxg8FnLf_PsBqxnv4cz3E_=vq8OF-FySd00ZbCWmVcgNgSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRDd3-4XggWtVa83qdxw3uLiSAKxfOSLxwHPaPhWrpKtHA@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 March 2017 at 22:50, Nathan Ernst <nathan.ernst at gmail.com> wrote:
> My issue with using spaces instead of tabs, is that, as mentioned earlier in
> the thread, everyone has their own preferences on indentation. I've worked
> on teams where different developers used 2, 3 & 4 spaces as indentation.
> Obviously, if you're using spaces, several of the members will be unhappy.
>
> Tabs have the benefit that most editors used by developers allow the
> adjustment of the width of a tab. If you use tabs, everyone can be happy
> with the visual presentation of their code.
>
> My rule of thumb: tabs for indentation, spaces for alignment (i.e. trying to
> line up anything after a non-whitespace character on a single line).
>
> Regards,
> Nathan
>

Trying to line up things after a non-whitespace character, e.g. like this?

myList = [
    ["a",                         "b", "c"],
    ["mess up your alignment",     "b", "c"],
    ["a",                         "b", "c"]
    ]

Well there is no easy solution possible, especially if you want it
to look exactly the same on all computers and editors.
Before something like elastic tabstops will be a standard,
it will continue to confuse people.
Spaces are still one of the worst solutions, although it will
give same results on monospaced editors. Changing
a long string in above example means again ASCII art exercises,
and it is not funny.
I'd just leave it as is or use tabs, despite they
can look different on other editor.

Most importang thing, one should just stop thinking
'monospaced'. Monospaced text rendering is an artifact,
which exist on a very short time period in history.
At best, one should just imagine it should not exist, and is
just a temporary inconvinience. Actually it lasts already much
longer than I would expect.

So for column alignment technically correct IMO are single tabs
which are rendered depending on the context, i.e. this is
like elastic tabstobs work, IIUC.
On the other hand one should not edit spreadsheets
in a text editor. If one does a lot of work on tables,
then use appropriate softwre, e.g. Excell.

Mikhail

ine up anything after a non-whitespace character


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Mar 19 17:47:50 2017
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 10:47:50 +1300
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <ej8ck8F8o0vU1@mid.individual.net>

Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> Unix tools
> which often assume spaces are used for indentation, and consequently cope
> badly with tabs. I maintain that makes them "broken" tools,

They're not broken in the context of Unix, where there is a
long-standing convention of assuming tab stops every 8 columns.
 From that point of view, tabs are not formatting instructions,
but are just a way of compressing consecutive spaces.
If tabs are used according to that convention, Unix tools
cope with them just fine.

> I'm not even sure that it is true that tabs will break the Unix toolset. But
> Unix users mostly *believe* it is true.

Tabs used according to non-Unix conventions will break Unix
tools. But that doesn't mean the tools themselves are broken,
any more than the fact that putting diesel fuel in a petrol
car damages it means that petrol engines are broken.

Python is in the awkward position of being expected to run
on either petrol or diesel. It copes by requiring a
particularly refined form of fuel, i.e. not mixing tabs
and spaces.

-- 
Greg


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Mar 19 17:54:10 2017
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 10:54:10 +1300
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.53.1489954294.30671.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
 <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPjBxg8FnLf_PsBqxnv4cz3E_=vq8OF-FySd00ZbCWmVcgNgSQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDd3-4XggWtVa83qdxw3uLiSAKxfOSLxwHPaPhWrpKtHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.53.1489954294.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ej8d04F8qjvU1@mid.individual.net>

Mikhail V wrote:
> Monospaced text rendering is an artifact,
> which exist on a very short time period in history.
> At best, one should just imagine it should not exist, and is
> just a temporary inconvinience. Actually it lasts already much
> longer than I would expect.

The fact that it *has* lasted so long might be telling us
something. It has some advantages when machine processing
text such as source code, where the semantic content is much
more important than making it look pretty.

-- 
Greg


From orgnut at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 19 17:54:37 2017
From: orgnut at yahoo.com (Larry Hudson)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 14:54:37 -0700
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.30.1489881711.30671.python-list@python.org>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1489878995.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <8760j6jgva.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPjBxg_v=1sQra4smhKgQJy1KtMhB5JtEJsKK+pWk+8Jc1OVRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.30.1489881711.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u9ydncyx3sWDY1PFnZ2dnUU7-afNnZ2d@giganews.com>

On 03/18/2017 05:01 PM, Nathan Ernst wrote:
[...]
> Personally, I dislike any editor that, by default, changes my input to
> something else. If I hit tab, I want a tab to be inserted, by default. If I
> want something else, I'll change the configuration.
>
A trivial point (and irrelevant)...  The thing I find annoying about an editor set to expand 
tabs to spaces is that it takes one keypress to indent but four (or whatever) to unindent.

-- 
      -=- Larry -=-


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Sun Mar 19 18:29:18 2017
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 22:29:18 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1489878995.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <8760j6jgva.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPjBxg_v=1sQra4smhKgQJy1KtMhB5JtEJsKK+pWk+8Jc1OVRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.30.1489881711.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <u9ydncyx3sWDY1PFnZ2dnUU7-afNnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <e7a2160a-33be-4afe-8848-96f4e635d19a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrnocu1nc.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>

On 2017-03-19, breamoreboy at gmail.com <breamoreboy at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 9:54:52 PM UTC, Larry Hudson wrote:
>> A trivial point (and irrelevant)...  The thing I find annoying
>> about an editor set to expand tabs to spaces is that it takes one
>> keypress to indent but four (or whatever) to unindent.
>
> No, just about every editor that I've ever used has SHIFT-TAB set to
> undo whatever TAB does.

Not to mention plenty of editors (e.g. vim) will unindent when you
press backspace.


From p.f.moore at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 18:46:09 2017
From: p.f.moore at gmail.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 15:46:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: cryptography default_backend is "hazmat"?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.34.1489893369.30671.python-list@python.org>
References: <oakain$avc$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmpfe75C_W5x32fmyTk1zS_Dr6sBm48uE4sR+2ZsqCFmow@mail.gmail.com>
 <oakc8l$ig2$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAOwXji4AOsuPXAXQpCoByC_Hu0S3VJc=wjAcN2GfJNm_DGDuEQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.34.1489893369.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8e450ce8-ea01-4668-99a3-391ddbcdf9ea@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, 19 March 2017 03:16:17 UTC, Arthur Darcet  wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 at 23:29, Ian Pilcher <arequipeno at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 03/18/2017 05:15 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > > So the question is: How well do you trust the examples? Are they
> > > likely to be instructing you in a safe way to use this
> > > potentially-dangerous module?
> >
> > But as far as I can tell, there's no way to use many of the non-hazmat
> > functions (e.g. parsing a certificate) without a backend, and all of the
> > backends are "hazmat".
> >
> > So what's the point of marking something as hazmat, if a large portion
> > of the rest of the module can't be used without it?
> >
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, the hazmat module contains functions that are easy to
> misuse, which is why they are hazardous.
> Using those same functions through the "safe" part of the library isn't
> dangerous

I do tend to agree with the OP. As someone who *definitely* doesn't claim to be a security expert, I'd prefer to stick solely to the "for non-expert users only" part of the module. As far as I can see, that part includes only:

1. Fernet symmetric encryption, which is fine, but needs me to manage the key safely (and offers no help in doing that)
2. X509, whose docs are a reference (that you need to understand X509 to follow) and a couple of tutorials on generating/requesting keys. Nothing on using X509 for encryption.

Some of the "obvious" things I'd like to be able to do (e.g., create a message digest, public key cryptography, hashing passwords for storage) are all in the "hazmat" part of the documentation.

So I'm left with the choice of using cryptography and explicitly using parts documented as not suitable for me, or using something else that claims to be robust (but which may not be, depending on whether I trust the author, or prefer to trust the PyCA, who seem to be implying that the subject is too complex for them to be able to provide a non-expert-friendly version, so how come other authors can?)

FWIW, for the 3 examples I gave above, quick Google searches found:

* message digest - the stdlib hashlib module
* public key - pycrypto
* password hashes - passlib

I have no idea whether these are "acceptable" solutions, but I'd tend to use them in preference to the cryptography library, simply because they don't claim that the functions needed are "dangerous to use".

Paul


From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 18:48:40 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 23:48:40 +0100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <ej8d04F8qjvU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
 <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPjBxg8FnLf_PsBqxnv4cz3E_=vq8OF-FySd00ZbCWmVcgNgSQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDd3-4XggWtVa83qdxw3uLiSAKxfOSLxwHPaPhWrpKtHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.53.1489954294.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <ej8d04F8qjvU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRBbPgYh49UQT8MeQBKGaH9-c+vPAbAF8auTtCyFUAa0FQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 19 March 2017 at 22:54, Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> Mikhail V wrote:
>>
>> Monospaced text rendering is an artifact,
>> which exist on a very short time period in history.
>> At best, one should just imagine it should not exist, and is
>> just a temporary inconvinience. Actually it lasts already much
>> longer than I would expect.
>
>
> The fact that it *has* lasted so long might be telling us
> something. It has some advantages when machine processing
> text such as source code, where the semantic content is much
> more important than making it look pretty.
>
> --
> Greg


If we speak about information reading, e.g. text or Python code,
then I don't know of any helpful feature, except that characters
are vertically aligned. And the feature is helpful only in this
sense that I can align table columns with integer amount of spaces.
The readability is however very poor and cannot
be remedied with any tricks. Also if one *needs*
monospaced for some reason, then one can always
render units at equal distances, e.g. to compare
two encrypted strings visually, but those
are rare specific tasks.

Obviously there are some technical advantages, e.g.
the algorithms for tiled rendering
are much simpler and respectively hardware
can be much simpler / more performant.
(E.g. tabloid in airport)

Or, for example collision detection, which is part
of mouse text selection algorithm is much simpler, etc.
These are IMO main reasons why it still often used.

Sadly, many people believe that a code editor
should be monospaced, but generally that does not
have any sense.

Mikhail


From marko at pacujo.net  Sun Mar 19 18:50:45 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 00:50:45 +0200
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ej8ck8F8o0vU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <87wpbkhoe2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz>:

> Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> Unix tools which often assume spaces are used for indentation, and
>> consequently cope badly with tabs. I maintain that makes them
>> "broken" tools,
>
> They're not broken in the context of Unix, where there is a
> long-standing convention of assuming tab stops every 8 columns. From
> that point of view, tabs are not formatting instructions, but are just
> a way of compressing consecutive spaces. If tabs are used according to
> that convention, Unix tools cope with them just fine.

Correct, the 8-column interpretation is the only defensible use for
tabs. However, since that use is completely redundant, better not use
them at all.


Marko


From python at lucidity.plus.com  Sun Mar 19 19:01:22 2017
From: python at lucidity.plus.com (Erik)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 23:01:22 +0000
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <slrnocu1nc.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1489878995.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <8760j6jgva.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPjBxg_v=1sQra4smhKgQJy1KtMhB5JtEJsKK+pWk+8Jc1OVRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.30.1489881711.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <u9ydncyx3sWDY1PFnZ2dnUU7-afNnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <e7a2160a-33be-4afe-8848-96f4e635d19a@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnocu1nc.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <921339c5-a64f-d4b5-c64a-947b47e3afe5@lucidity.plus.com>

On 19/03/17 22:29, Jon Ribbens wrote:
> On 2017-03-19, breamoreboy at gmail.com <breamoreboy at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 9:54:52 PM UTC, Larry Hudson wrote:
>>> A trivial point (and irrelevant)...  The thing I find annoying
>>> about an editor set to expand tabs to spaces is that it takes one
>>> keypress to indent but four (or whatever) to unindent.
>>
>> No, just about every editor that I've ever used has SHIFT-TAB set to
>> undo whatever TAB does.
>
> Not to mention plenty of editors (e.g. vim) will unindent when you
> press backspace.

I don't think that's strictly true. If you have just indented with a tab 
character, then backspace will delete that tab character. But, if you 
indent with either 4 spaces or use the Tab key with "expandtab" enabled, 
then it will just delete the right-most space character.

The closest I've come to an "unindent" in vim so far is Ctrl-D, which 
backs up one "shift width's" worth.


For sanity, in 'vim', I always use (for my own Python code, at least):

:set sw=4 ts=4 expandtabs

That way, all tab keypresses insert 4 spaces instead of a tab and the 
shift operations ('<' and '>') will do the same. This also means the 
"back up one shift-width" command (Ctrl-D) is the same as a "dedent".


If you also use the autoindent setting (:set ai), then writing code is 
as easy as pressing enter and Tab to start a new suite, enter only to 
continue a suite, and enter and Ctrl-D to drop back to the outer suite.

E.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Mar 19 19:01:25 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 19:01:25 -0400
Subject: About linters and PEP-8
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoxGoLpfzZ0cU0nt-xtvKrby_WtRBaUY=ZDPNhX4BLcUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABDEq2nkw7n7QE4ct3jH4LueTJPcE1oAiVT9w+qwi7dxcUX5kw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpBjOakwGsqjjMn1uHByNBC_w+aXn-Ab4Jv75FCWNeDQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oamnec$uhi$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmoxGoLpfzZ0cU0nt-xtvKrby_WtRBaUY=ZDPNhX4BLcUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oan2jv$25h$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 3/19/2017 3:57 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 6:50 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>> On 3/19/2017 7:20 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>>> The tool "pep8" is inappropriately named. No linter should use this
>>> name. It implies a level of authority by linking with a very specific
>>> document.
>>
>>
>> At Guido's request, the name was changed to 'pycodestyle'.  See the note at
>> the top of
>> https://pep8.readthedocs.io/en/release-1.7.x/
>>
>> This really should be noted also at the top of
>> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pep8/1.7.0
>
> Oh, good. I heard that he requested it, but the place I looked was the
> PyPI landing page, so it looked like they were still using that name.
>
> Sadly, it's still going to be "pip install pep8", isn't it :(

That should get the last pep8 from early 2016. I presume the current 
pycodestyle needs

C:\Users\Terry>py -m pip install pycodestyle
Collecting pycodestyle
   Downloading pycodestyle-2.3.1-py2.py3-none-any.whl (45kB)
     100% |????????????????????????????????| 51kB 501kB/s
Installing collected packages: pycodestyle
Successfully installed pycodestyle-2.3.1

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy




From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 19:02:05 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 10:02:05 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAE6NSRBbPgYh49UQT8MeQBKGaH9-c+vPAbAF8auTtCyFUAa0FQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
 <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPjBxg8FnLf_PsBqxnv4cz3E_=vq8OF-FySd00ZbCWmVcgNgSQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDd3-4XggWtVa83qdxw3uLiSAKxfOSLxwHPaPhWrpKtHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.53.1489954294.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <ej8d04F8qjvU1@mid.individual.net>
 <CAE6NSRBbPgYh49UQT8MeQBKGaH9-c+vPAbAF8auTtCyFUAa0FQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq1vxLDaJS0M=kbS_p5XsjN8ZZLF_32NjgQpo5zVWpe-w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 9:48 AM, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
> [regarding monospaced text]
> Or, for example collision detection, which is part
> of mouse text selection algorithm is much simpler, etc.
> These are IMO main reasons why it still often used.

I work extensively with MUDs, where traditionally ASCII text is
monospaced. It's normal to create alignment with spaces, and for tabs
to represent eight-space positions (so "abc\td" will take up nine
slots of width). But in the world of Unicode, it's not that simple.
Some text runs right-to-left, some characters have different widths
assigned, some have no width at all. My program has to cope with all
of these, including when you use the mouse to select text.

Monospacing is not about making it easier for the program; it's about
keeping things the way the human expects. I do not ever want my MUDs
or my shells to run with classic "proportionally-spaced" fonts, but I
do want them to be able to cope with RTL text etc. And they can.

ChrisA


From marko at pacujo.net  Sun Mar 19 19:04:42 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 01:04:42 +0200
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1489878995.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <8760j6jgva.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPjBxg_v=1sQra4smhKgQJy1KtMhB5JtEJsKK+pWk+8Jc1OVRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.30.1489881711.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <u9ydncyx3sWDY1PFnZ2dnUU7-afNnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <87shm8hnqt.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Larry Hudson <orgnut at yahoo.com>:
> A trivial point (and irrelevant)... The thing I find annoying about an
> editor set to expand tabs to spaces is that it takes one keypress to
> indent but four (or whatever) to unindent.

In emacs' Python mode, if I have entered:

========================================================================
env.SharedLibrary('custom', [ 'a.c',
?
========================================================================

and press Tab, the cursor moves to the right position:

========================================================================
env.SharedLibrary('custom', [ 'a.c',
                              ?
========================================================================

Now, pressing Backspace once (or Tab once more), I get:

========================================================================
env.SharedLibrary('custom', [ 'a.c',
                            ?
========================================================================

After a second Backspace (or a third Tab):

========================================================================
env.SharedLibrary('custom', [ 'a.c',
                        ?
========================================================================

and so on, 4 columns at a time.

I have told emacs not to use HT characters.


Marko


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Mar 19 19:06:37 2017
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 23:06:37 +0000
Subject: python script Non-ASCII character
In-Reply-To: <a68eda44-d21e-4e3c-a9d2-e587070419b5@googlegroups.com>
References: <2d71de91-6299-459d-b477-60d8b4cbc0f1@googlegroups.com>
 <a68eda44-d21e-4e3c-a9d2-e587070419b5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <83546177-5fa0-93e5-dc8c-6ad7b214808d@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2017-03-19 20:10, Xristos Xristoou wrote:
> ?? ???????, 19 ??????? 2017 - 7:38:19 ?.?. UTC+2, ? ??????? Xristos Xristoou ??????:
> @Terry non-ascii in pathnames i need for ex :var1="C:\Users\username\Desktop\my language\mylanguage\myfile" and for the blank ?
>
Your choices are:

1. Raw string literals:

     var1 = r"C:\Users\username\Desktop\my language\mylanguage\myfile"

     However, the literal shouldn't end with a backslash, so, for 
example, r"C:\" _won't_ work.

2. Slashes:

     var1 = "C:/Users/username/Desktop/my language/mylanguage/myfile"

3. Doubled backslashes:

     var1 = "C:\\Users\\username\\Desktop\\my language\\mylanguage\\myfile"


If the path contains non-ASCII characters (for example, Greek letters), 
it's much better to use Unicode instead.

If you're using Unicode string literals, your choices are:

1. Raw string literals:

     var1 = ur"C:\Users\username\Desktop\? ?????? ???\mylanguage\myfile"

     However, the literal shouldn't end with a backslash, so, for 
example, ur"C:\" _won't_ work.

2. Slashes:

     var1 = u"C:/Users/username/Desktop/? ?????? ???/mylanguage/myfile"

3. Doubled backslashes:

     var1 = u"C:\\Users\\username\\Desktop\\? ?????? 
???\\mylanguage\\myfile"


Just remember to specify the encoding as the first or second line:

# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-

and save the file in that encoding (UTF-8, in this case).



From steve+python at pearwood.info  Sun Mar 19 19:20:11 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 10:20:11 +1100
Subject: python script  Non-ASCII character
References: <2d71de91-6299-459d-b477-60d8b4cbc0f1@googlegroups.com>
 <5a032175-8e51-407a-aa28-5c1d9fd60918@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <58cf122d$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 06:48 am, Xristos Xristoou wrote:

> ?? ???????, 19 ??????? 2017 - 7:38:19 ?.?. UTC+2, ? ??????? Xristos
> Xristoou ??????:
> 
> how to define my script with  encoding of ISO-8859-7 or  UTF-8?and for the
> blanks ?


First you need to know whether your editor is saving the file using UTF-8 or
ISO-8859-7. What editor are you using?


Set your editor to use UTF-8. That is the best option.

In your script, put:

# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-


as the **very first or second** line of the script. It must be at the
beginning.


-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Sun Mar 19 19:23:09 2017
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 23:23:09 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1489878995.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <8760j6jgva.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPjBxg_v=1sQra4smhKgQJy1KtMhB5JtEJsKK+pWk+8Jc1OVRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.30.1489881711.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <u9ydncyx3sWDY1PFnZ2dnUU7-afNnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <e7a2160a-33be-4afe-8848-96f4e635d19a@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnocu1nc.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <921339c5-a64f-d4b5-c64a-947b47e3afe5@lucidity.plus.com>
 <mailman.57.1489964670.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnocu4sb.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>

On 2017-03-19, Erik <python at lucidity.plus.com> wrote:
> On 19/03/17 22:29, Jon Ribbens wrote:
>> Not to mention plenty of editors (e.g. vim) will unindent when you
>> press backspace.
>
> I don't think that's strictly true. If you have just indented with a tab 
> character, then backspace will delete that tab character. But, if you 
> indent with either 4 spaces or use the Tab key with "expandtab" enabled, 
> then it will just delete the right-most space character.

The option you want is "smarttab", then it will behave as I describe.
(Or install the "vim-sensible" settings, which I highly recommend.)


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 19:26:28 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 10:26:28 +1100
Subject: About linters and PEP-8
In-Reply-To: <oan2jv$25h$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <CABDEq2nkw7n7QE4ct3jH4LueTJPcE1oAiVT9w+qwi7dxcUX5kw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpBjOakwGsqjjMn1uHByNBC_w+aXn-Ab4Jv75FCWNeDQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oamnec$uhi$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmoxGoLpfzZ0cU0nt-xtvKrby_WtRBaUY=ZDPNhX4BLcUQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <oan2jv$25h$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpwCd3dUKMzOUc=js3mNYMoKPuu2DmJYCH3-jjD4fby3w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>>> At Guido's request, the name was changed to 'pycodestyle'.  See the note
>>> at
>>> the top of
>>> https://pep8.readthedocs.io/en/release-1.7.x/
>>>
>>> This really should be noted also at the top of
>>> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pep8/1.7.0
>>
>>
>> Oh, good. I heard that he requested it, but the place I looked was the
>> PyPI landing page, so it looked like they were still using that name.
>>
>> Sadly, it's still going to be "pip install pep8", isn't it :(
>
>
> That should get the last pep8 from early 2016. I presume the current
> pycodestyle needs
>
> C:\Users\Terry>py -m pip install pycodestyle

In the docs link you posted, scroll down a bit:

https://pep8.readthedocs.io/en/release-1.7.x/intro.html#installation

Or maybe that's outdated and also needs to be fixed?

ChrisA


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Sun Mar 19 19:55:07 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 10:55:07 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ej8ck8F8o0vU1@mid.individual.net> <87wpbkhoe2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <58cf1a5d$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 09:50 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> the 8-column interpretation is the only defensible use for
> tabs.


Oh, that's a law of physics is it? "8 columns per tab" is one of the
fundamental mathematical or physical constants baked into the nature of
reality, like

? ? 3.14159...
e ? 2.71828...
Feigenbaum constant ? ? 4.66920...
gravitational constant G ? 6.673e-11 N m**2 kg**-2
fine structure constant ? ? 7.297351e-3

etc. And here I was, in my ignorance, thinking that it was a mere
convention, something that could trivially be made a config option for
those tools which actually needed it:

  --tabwidth=4

But I guess that's just as silly as redefining ? as 3 exactly.



-- 
Steve
299792.458 km/s ? not just a good idea, it?s the law!



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 20:12:58 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 11:12:58 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <58cf1a5d$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ej8ck8F8o0vU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87wpbkhoe2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58cf1a5d$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrYygRWUd=aREc2BFHeB80uBedhMwrsCEKY-aWg-erXeg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 10:55 AM, Steve D'Aprano
<steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> Oh, that's a law of physics is it? "8 columns per tab" is one of the
> fundamental mathematical or physical constants baked into the nature of
> reality, like
>
> ? ? 3.14159...
> e ? 2.71828...
> Feigenbaum constant ? ? 4.66920...
> gravitational constant G ? 6.673e-11 N m**2 kg**-2
> fine structure constant ? ? 7.297351e-3
>
> etc. And here I was, in my ignorance, thinking that it was a mere
> convention, something that could trivially be made a config option for
> those tools which actually needed it:
>
>   --tabwidth=4
>
> But I guess that's just as silly as redefining ? as 3 exactly.

Yes. Actually, all of those constants are themselves defined in terms
of the width of a tab; if you change a tab to be seven spaces, e would
become 2.3785. That's just how the world works.

Actually, when I first met tabs, they were defined in centimeters.
Aside from the fact that they really should have been defined in
millimeters, I fully support that broad concept. (And they weren't
defined as "every 2.5 cm" necessarily; the default was for them to
repeat, but if you wanted, you could have them at 2.5, then 5.0, then
6.0, then 9.0, etc, etc, etc.)

ChrisA


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Sun Mar 19 20:42:22 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 11:42:22 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmqGt25ruxifTF-zxh8tJ=0EjJo1GwS6yQ1KRVTLe=js_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.47.1489950036.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58cf2571$0$1584$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 06:00 am, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 4:29 AM, Steve D'Aprano
> <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> I wonder whether the tabs versus spaces divide is closely aligned to the
>> Windows versus Unix/Linux divide?
>>
>> It seems to me that Unix users are typically going to be using Unix tools
>> which often assume spaces are used for indentation, and consequently cope
>> badly with tabs. I maintain that makes them "broken" tools, but broken or
>> not, that's the status quo and Unix users will simply deal with it by
>> using spaces for indents.
> 
> Nope. I'm on Linux and I love my tabs. They play fine with grep, diff,
> etc. None of my tools has a problem with them.

Hence my comment:

"I'm not even sure that it is true that tabs will break the Unix toolset.
But Unix users mostly believe it is true."

Perhaps I should have specified, *many* Unix users believe. Or "some" Unix
users. Or "the guys I work with".

Or perhaps "just that one guy": here is JMZ, who says it is "impossible" to
do anything with a text file unless you know what a TAB character
represents:

        I just care that two people editing the same file use the same
        interpretations, and that it's possible to look at a file and 
        know what interpretation of the TAB character was used, because
        otherwise it's just impossible to read. 

https://www.jwz.org/doc/tabs-vs-spaces.html


Jamie Zawinski is a clever man, but I've read that document probably a dozen
times over the years, and I still don't understand it. If I indent
something using tab characters:

        indent 1
                indent 2
        indent 1 again

why does JMZ need to know how many columns *I* choose to use to display
this? I could use 4 columns per tab, or 64, and not only is the source text
identical but the interpretation in terms of *indent levels* is the same.
And that's the only interpretation that really matters: whether something
is indented once, or twice, not the physical number of columns that takes
up on *my* screen.

JMZ's "solution" is to ban TAB characters from source files. I don't
understand why he thinks that solves *anything*. If anything, it makes it
worse: for example, in the above quoted paragraph, I deliberately indented
the quote by *two* indents, not one, but using a spaces. How can JMZ
distinguish between "one 8-column indent" and "two 4-column indent" when
spaces are used instead of tabs? I don't think you can. I think he is
working on the unstated assumption that indentation will never increase by
more than one level. If so, then he can easily read:

        indented text
        more indented text

as a single 8-column indent. And he'll usually be right, until he keeps
reading and find:

        still more indented text
    outdented by half a level text?


I find myself using spaces because it is the path of least resistance, and
the tools I use make it tolerable. But for the life of me I still cannot
understand the *logical argument* against tabs.





-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 21:01:48 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 12:01:48 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <58cf2571$0$1584$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmqGt25ruxifTF-zxh8tJ=0EjJo1GwS6yQ1KRVTLe=js_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.47.1489950036.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cf2571$0$1584$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpG8E8KyJ70-Mt8xcAzDZnmWeAs7=aOAiXz+bKVT7s=Jw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Steve D'Aprano
<steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> Or perhaps "just that one guy": here is JMZ, who says it is "impossible" to
> do anything with a text file unless you know what a TAB character
> represents:
>
>         I just care that two people editing the same file use the same
>         interpretations, and that it's possible to look at a file and
>         know what interpretation of the TAB character was used, because
>         otherwise it's just impossible to read.
>
> https://www.jwz.org/doc/tabs-vs-spaces.html
>
>
> Jamie Zawinski is a clever man, but I've read that document probably a dozen
> times over the years, and I still don't understand it. If I indent
> something using tab characters:
>
>         indent 1
>                 indent 2
>         indent 1 again
>
> why does JMZ need to know how many columns *I* choose to use to display
> this?

It's the same problem that you get when you put byte value 97 into a
file and it's impossible to know whether you meant for it to be
displayed in Courier or Times Roman. When you care about that level of
detail, *you're doing it wrong*. Text files are not intended to convey
exact pixel arrangements - they're for carrying linguistic
information.

In a text file, horizontal tab means "move horizontally". It doesn't
mean "move eight times the width of one standard character" (which is
less standard than a standard drink), and it doesn't mean "move 30mm",
and it certainly doesn't mean "move into debate mode against people
who use spaces".

ChrisA


From python at lucidity.plus.com  Sun Mar 19 21:18:17 2017
From: python at lucidity.plus.com (Erik)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 01:18:17 +0000
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <slrnocu4sb.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1489878995.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <8760j6jgva.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPjBxg_v=1sQra4smhKgQJy1KtMhB5JtEJsKK+pWk+8Jc1OVRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.30.1489881711.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <u9ydncyx3sWDY1PFnZ2dnUU7-afNnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <e7a2160a-33be-4afe-8848-96f4e635d19a@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnocu1nc.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <921339c5-a64f-d4b5-c64a-947b47e3afe5@lucidity.plus.com>
 <mailman.57.1489964670.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnocu4sb.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <f5cbcdbd-961e-8f96-8021-6c6a517df6ac@lucidity.plus.com>

On 19/03/17 23:23, Jon Ribbens wrote:
> On 2017-03-19, Erik <python at lucidity.plus.com> wrote:
>> On 19/03/17 22:29, Jon Ribbens wrote:
>>> Not to mention plenty of editors (e.g. vim) will unindent when you
>>> press backspace.
>>
>> I don't think that's strictly true. If you have just indented with a tab
>> character, then backspace will delete that tab character. But, if you
>> indent with either 4 spaces or use the Tab key with "expandtab" enabled,
>> then it will just delete the right-most space character.
>
> The option you want is "smarttab", then it will behave as I describe.

You're quite right (as was I because you didn't mention it wasn't 
out-of-the-box functionality ;)).

I may well add that setting to my .vimrc, but FWIW, the Ctrl-D thing 
harks back to the original "vi" which I grew up on, so although I may 
add that setting, my muscle memory will probably still have me pressing 
Ctrl-D forever ;)

> (Or install the "vim-sensible" settings, which I highly recommend.)

I have no interest in making my settings "sensible", thank you very much :D

Thanks though - it's always nice to learn another way to hone things 
just as one likes them ...

E.


From chenchao at inhand.com.cn  Sun Mar 19 22:42:38 2017
From: chenchao at inhand.com.cn (chenchao)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 22:42:38 -0400
Subject: how to corss-compile azure-iot-sdk-python
Message-ID: <4008972c-4f71-7102-c0e4-580ed6b3cd5a@inhand.com.cn>

Hi:

    I want to port the 'azure-iot-sdk-python' to my router(arm 
platform). How can i achieve this?



From eryksun at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 22:50:43 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 02:50:43 +0000
Subject: python script Non-ASCII character
In-Reply-To: <83546177-5fa0-93e5-dc8c-6ad7b214808d@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <2d71de91-6299-459d-b477-60d8b4cbc0f1@googlegroups.com>
 <a68eda44-d21e-4e3c-a9d2-e587070419b5@googlegroups.com>
 <83546177-5fa0-93e5-dc8c-6ad7b214808d@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1as5ZbiOHxToyvmsEQLdw3ODgx-1f5_RzkU2bLZuLrEBHQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 11:06 PM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>
> If you're using Unicode string literals, your choices are:
>
> 1. Raw string literals:
>
>     var1 = ur"C:\Users\username\Desktop\? ?????? ???\mylanguage\myfile"

Raw unicode literals are practically useless in Python 2. They're not
actually raw because \u and \U are still parsed as Unicode escapes,
e.g. ur"C:\Users" and ur"C:\users" are syntax errors.

> 2. Slashes:
>
>     var1 = u"C:/Users/username/Desktop/? ?????? ???/mylanguage/myfile"

I prefer to normalize a path with os.path.normpath, or pathlib.Path in
Python 3. This converts slashes to backslashes to get a canonical
Windows path. IMO, it's also visually better in a text representation
or error messages. Otherwise at runtime joined paths often end up with
mixed slashes, which to me is ugly.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Mar 19 22:52:49 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 22:52:49 -0400
Subject: About linters and PEP-8
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpwCd3dUKMzOUc=js3mNYMoKPuu2DmJYCH3-jjD4fby3w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABDEq2nkw7n7QE4ct3jH4LueTJPcE1oAiVT9w+qwi7dxcUX5kw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpBjOakwGsqjjMn1uHByNBC_w+aXn-Ab4Jv75FCWNeDQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oamnec$uhi$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmoxGoLpfzZ0cU0nt-xtvKrby_WtRBaUY=ZDPNhX4BLcUQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <oan2jv$25h$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmpwCd3dUKMzOUc=js3mNYMoKPuu2DmJYCH3-jjD4fby3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oang5s$l2n$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 3/19/2017 7:26 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:

> In the docs link you posted, scroll down a bit:
>
> https://pep8.readthedocs.io/en/release-1.7.x/intro.html#installation
>
> Or maybe that's outdated and also needs to be fixed?

It is up to date for the latest outdated 'pep8'.  It is needed for 
someone replicating setups that have not upgraded.  There are still 
occasional downloads for PIL even though essentially superceded by 
pillow years ago.

https://pycodestyle.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
tells how to install the renamed and currently maintained module.


-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 23:18:45 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 14:18:45 +1100
Subject: About linters and PEP-8
In-Reply-To: <oang5s$l2n$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <CABDEq2nkw7n7QE4ct3jH4LueTJPcE1oAiVT9w+qwi7dxcUX5kw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpBjOakwGsqjjMn1uHByNBC_w+aXn-Ab4Jv75FCWNeDQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oamnec$uhi$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmoxGoLpfzZ0cU0nt-xtvKrby_WtRBaUY=ZDPNhX4BLcUQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <oan2jv$25h$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmpwCd3dUKMzOUc=js3mNYMoKPuu2DmJYCH3-jjD4fby3w@mail.gmail.com>
 <oang5s$l2n$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqhBb7ov+z2cyBum4rh8EGXfdnUCXtzEP1-xd-AjxB-iQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> On 3/19/2017 7:26 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> In the docs link you posted, scroll down a bit:
>>
>> https://pep8.readthedocs.io/en/release-1.7.x/intro.html#installation
>>
>> Or maybe that's outdated and also needs to be fixed?
>
>
> It is up to date for the latest outdated 'pep8'.  It is needed for someone
> replicating setups that have not upgraded.  There are still occasional
> downloads for PIL even though essentially superceded by pillow years ago.
>
> https://pycodestyle.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
> tells how to install the renamed and currently maintained module.

Gotcha. Maybe the note in the old docs needs to be clearer in saying
"this module is now unmaintained - see the new module, install that,
yada yada".

ChrisA


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Mar 19 23:36:45 2017
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 03:36:45 +0000
Subject: python script Non-ASCII character
In-Reply-To: <CACL+1as5ZbiOHxToyvmsEQLdw3ODgx-1f5_RzkU2bLZuLrEBHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d71de91-6299-459d-b477-60d8b4cbc0f1@googlegroups.com>
 <a68eda44-d21e-4e3c-a9d2-e587070419b5@googlegroups.com>
 <83546177-5fa0-93e5-dc8c-6ad7b214808d@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <CACL+1as5ZbiOHxToyvmsEQLdw3ODgx-1f5_RzkU2bLZuLrEBHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <586f79c3-e0d3-86d6-9321-664c64b6f1b3@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2017-03-20 02:50, eryk sun wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 11:06 PM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>>
>> If you're using Unicode string literals, your choices are:
>>
>> 1. Raw string literals:
>>
>>     var1 = ur"C:\Users\username\Desktop\? ?????? ???\mylanguage\myfile"
>
> Raw unicode literals are practically useless in Python 2. They're not
> actually raw because \u and \U are still parsed as Unicode escapes,
> e.g. ur"C:\Users" and ur"C:\users" are syntax errors.
>
Thanks for the correction.

I haven't used Python 2 for a long time (apart from running the unit 
tests when I make a new release of the regex module)!

>> 2. Slashes:
>>
>>     var1 = u"C:/Users/username/Desktop/? ?????? ???/mylanguage/myfile"
>
> I prefer to normalize a path with os.path.normpath, or pathlib.Path in
> Python 3. This converts slashes to backslashes to get a canonical
> Windows path. IMO, it's also visually better in a text representation
> or error messages. Otherwise at runtime joined paths often end up with
> mixed slashes, which to me is ugly.
>



From marko at pacujo.net  Mon Mar 20 03:01:35 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 09:01:35 +0200
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ej8ck8F8o0vU1@mid.individual.net> <87wpbkhoe2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58cf1a5d$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <878to0h1o0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info>:

> On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 09:50 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>
>> the 8-column interpretation is the only defensible use for
>> tabs.
>
>
> Oh, that's a law of physics is it?

Pretty much. Try printing out your program with lpr, or sending it to
the terminal with cat, or opening it with with Firefox.


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Mar 20 03:19:07 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 18:19:07 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <878to0h1o0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ej8ck8F8o0vU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87wpbkhoe2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58cf1a5d$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <878to0h1o0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpMbejgHxUg7CzQNLe1swdYnDQaNmEPs8N_b=nQQ8tj+A@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 6:01 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info>:
>
>> On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 09:50 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>
>>> the 8-column interpretation is the only defensible use for
>>> tabs.
>>
>>
>> Oh, that's a law of physics is it?
>
> Pretty much. Try printing out your program with lpr, or sending it to
> the terminal with cat, or opening it with with Firefox.

I don't use paper, but I tried cat and Firefox. In each case, the tab
characters showed precisely as they should: as indentation. Was it the
exact same amount of indentation that showed when I originally wrote
the text in my editor? Was it displayed in the same font as my text
editor uses? Was the window the same size as that of my text editor?
Was the text colour the same everywhere? And do any of these questions
even matter?

Semantically, indentation is indentation. Obviously there are
ridiculous extremes (a tab character probably shouldn't indent by just
one pixel, nor should it normally indent by the entire width of a
line), but even those should be under the control of the viewer, not
the author. I prefer to use tabs in my code precisely *because* they
are not defined in a concrete way. The only thing I demand of the
display is that a sequence of N tabs be narrower than a sequence of
N+1 tabs.

ChrisA


From arequipeno at gmail.com  Mon Mar 20 03:28:12 2017
From: arequipeno at gmail.com (Ian Pilcher)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 02:28:12 -0500
Subject: cryptography default_backend is "hazmat"?
In-Reply-To: <8e450ce8-ea01-4668-99a3-391ddbcdf9ea@googlegroups.com>
References: <oakain$avc$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmpfe75C_W5x32fmyTk1zS_Dr6sBm48uE4sR+2ZsqCFmow@mail.gmail.com>
 <oakc8l$ig2$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAOwXji4AOsuPXAXQpCoByC_Hu0S3VJc=wjAcN2GfJNm_DGDuEQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.34.1489893369.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <8e450ce8-ea01-4668-99a3-391ddbcdf9ea@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <oao0a6$fpb$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 03/19/2017 05:46 PM, Paul Moore wrote:
> 1. Fernet symmetric encryption, which is fine, but needs me to manage
> the key safely (and offers no help in doing that) 2. X509, whose docs
> are a reference (that you need to understand X509 to follow) and a
> couple of tutorials on generating/requesting keys. Nothing on using
> X509 for encryption.

Actually, even loading an X.509 certificate from a PEM file requires
a backend, which means delving into the "hazmat" area.

I'm not saying that some crypto functions require careful handling; they
obviously do. But is default_backend one of them?

-- 
========================================================================
Ian Pilcher                                         arequipeno at gmail.com
-------- "I grew up before Mark Zuckerberg invented friendship" --------
========================================================================



From marko at pacujo.net  Mon Mar 20 03:37:25 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 09:37:25 +0200
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ej8ck8F8o0vU1@mid.individual.net> <87wpbkhoe2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58cf1a5d$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <878to0h1o0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpMbejgHxUg7CzQNLe1swdYnDQaNmEPs8N_b=nQQ8tj+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1489994351.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <874lyoh00a.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 6:01 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> Pretty much. Try printing out your program with lpr, or sending it to
>> the terminal with cat, or opening it with with Firefox.
>
> I don't use paper, but I tried cat and Firefox. In each case, the tab
> characters showed precisely as they should: as indentation. Was it the
> exact same amount of indentation that showed when I originally wrote
> the text in my editor? Was it displayed in the same font as my text
> editor uses? Was the window the same size as that of my text editor?
> Was the text colour the same everywhere? And do any of these questions
> even matter?

Those questions do matter when you mix whitespace and tabs, as well as
in cases like these:

    call_some_function(1,
                       2,
                       3)

The tools I mentioned honor the traditional tab stop columns:

    1, 9, 17, 25, 33, 41, 49, 57, 65, 73

> Semantically, indentation is indentation.

The presence of a HT code point in a plain text file is not a semantic
marker for indentation. It is a silly, traditional compression scheme
for whitespace.

> I prefer to use tabs in my code precisely *because* they are not
> defined in a concrete way.

If you ever had to review C source code pull requests where tabs and
spaces alternate randomly...


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Mar 20 04:15:14 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 19:15:14 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <874lyoh00a.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ej8ck8F8o0vU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87wpbkhoe2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58cf1a5d$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <878to0h1o0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpMbejgHxUg7CzQNLe1swdYnDQaNmEPs8N_b=nQQ8tj+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1489994351.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <874lyoh00a.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpexRYZTuhXzNCj9Xk_gc5R2K0GPTn2aLj4UjomAf4BWQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> I don't use paper, but I tried cat and Firefox. In each case, the tab
>> characters showed precisely as they should: as indentation. Was it the
>> exact same amount of indentation that showed when I originally wrote
>> the text in my editor? Was it displayed in the same font as my text
>> editor uses? Was the window the same size as that of my text editor?
>> Was the text colour the same everywhere? And do any of these questions
>> even matter?
>
> Those questions do matter when you mix whitespace and tabs, as well as
> in cases like these:
>
>     call_some_function(1,
>                        2,
>                        3)
>
> The tools I mentioned honor the traditional tab stop columns:
>
>     1, 9, 17, 25, 33, 41, 49, 57, 65, 73

(Point of clarity: "whitespace" is a general term that covers U+0020
SPACE, U+0009 CHARACTER TABULATION, U+000A LINE FEED, U+2008
PUNCTUATION SPACE, and others. You're talking about mixing *spaces*
and tabs.)

That means that you were depending, in your source file, on something
that isn't actually part of the character's definition. You're
depending on "horizontal tab" meaning those exact tab stops. If you
want those semantics, you should use spaces - or better still, *change
your needs* and don't align things like that. In far too many fonts,
this simply won't work. (It was only from context that I figured out
that that's what you were even aiming for. It didn't work in my
email.)

>> Semantically, indentation is indentation.
>
> The presence of a HT code point in a plain text file is not a semantic
> marker for indentation. It is a silly, traditional compression scheme
> for whitespace.

Only if you truly expect and assume that. Can you show me a standards
document that says "the meaning of this byte/character value is this
sequence of this other byte/character"?

>> I prefer to use tabs in my code precisely *because* they are not
>> defined in a concrete way.
>
> If you ever had to review C source code pull requests where tabs and
> spaces alternate randomly...

Yes, and if you've ever had to review source code pull requests where
the letters "q" and "e" were used interchangeably, you'd also be
appalled. The different kinds of whitespace have different semantic
meanings, and while I'm sympathetic to the desire to stick to ASCII
where possible (resulting in a pair of newlines often being used to
represent a paragraph, where semantically U+2029 PARAGRAPH SEPARATOR
would be more appropriate), I believe that the meanings of different
characters should be respected. You wouldn't separate words in a
sentence with form-feeds; nor should you mix tabulation and space
characters to create indentation.

ChrisA


From Avon at f101.n1.z21.fsxnet  Mon Mar 20 04:39:04 2017
From: Avon at f101.n1.z21.fsxnet (Avon)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 20:39:04 +1200
Subject: Python BBS (and more)
Message-ID: <20507560@f101.n1.z21.fsxnet>

Hi all.

Just a FYI that a new Wiki has been started at wiki.bbs.geek.nz which aims to
provide helpful information to bulletin board system (BBS) developers and
users.

It's a work in progress with a growing number of contributors that include
tutorials related to coding a BBS using Python and another using Crystal.

There are also links to other open source and closed source BBS platforms
under active development in 2017

The FTN style network that is sponsoring these efforts and being used as a
place for online discussions (echoarea FSX_BBS) is called fsxNet. If you
would like to know more visit bbs.geek.nz or grab an infopack at
bbs.geek.nz/fsxnet.zip

Best, Paul



From marko at pacujo.net  Mon Mar 20 05:56:13 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 11:56:13 +0200
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ej8ck8F8o0vU1@mid.individual.net> <87wpbkhoe2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58cf1a5d$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <878to0h1o0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpMbejgHxUg7CzQNLe1swdYnDQaNmEPs8N_b=nQQ8tj+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1489994351.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <874lyoh00a.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpexRYZTuhXzNCj9Xk_gc5R2K0GPTn2aLj4UjomAf4BWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.70.1489997723.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87r31sz2yq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> The tools I mentioned honor the traditional tab stop columns:
>>
>>     1, 9, 17, 25, 33, 41, 49, 57, 65, 73
>
> (Point of clarity: "whitespace" is a general term that covers U+0020
> SPACE, U+0009 CHARACTER TABULATION, U+000A LINE FEED, U+2008
> PUNCTUATION SPACE, and others. You're talking about mixing *spaces*
> and tabs.)
>
> That means that you were depending, in your source file, on something
> that isn't actually part of the character's definition.

Those tab stops are a 40-year-old de-facto UNIX standard.

> You're depending on "horizontal tab" meaning those exact tab stops.

Not me. All terminal emulators, editors, text utils etc honor the
convention out of the box. No wonder then that C source code files have
consecutive lines indented randomly:

   HT
   SPC HT
   SPC SPC SPC SPC HT

etc. The tools show no visible difference between those variants, so you
can't blame the developers for being inconsistent.

> If you want those semantics, you should use spaces -

That is precisely what we have done: HT is banished (except in
Makefiles, but we have banished Makefiles as well...).

> or better still, *change your needs* and don't align things like that.
> In far too many fonts, this simply won't work.

You must use fixed-width fonts even in the absense of HT's. Try RFC 793,
for example:

   TCP Header Format

    0                   1                   2                   3
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |          Source Port          |       Destination Port        |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                        Sequence Number                        |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                    Acknowledgment Number                      |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |  Data |           |U|A|P|R|S|F|                               |
   | Offset| Reserved  |R|C|S|S|Y|I|            Window             |
   |       |           |G|K|H|T|N|N|                               |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |           Checksum            |         Urgent Pointer        |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                    Options                    |    Padding    |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                             data                              |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Those kinds of ASCII graphics diagrams are commonplace in source code
comments.

> (It was only from context that I figured out that that's what you were
> even aiming for. It didn't work in my email.)

When participating in technical discussions, I strongly recommend using
a fixed-width font. For example:

   =====  =====  =======
     A      B    A and B
   =====  =====  =======
   False  False  False
   True   False  False
   False  True   False
   True   True   True
   =====  =====  =======

   <URL: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0012/>

>> The presence of a HT code point in a plain text file is not a
>> semantic marker for indentation. It is a silly, traditional
>> compression scheme for whitespace.
>
> Only if you truly expect and assume that. Can you show me a standards
> document that says "the meaning of this byte/character value is this
> sequence of this other byte/character"?

I already mentioned three examples: lpr, cat on a terminal and Firefox.
Ultimately, it's the terminals that dictate the de-facto standard.

I bet some terminal emulators support ANSI escape sequences to set the
tab stops to arbitrary columns, but nobody uses that type-writer-era
mechanism.

>> If you ever had to review C source code pull requests where tabs and
>> spaces alternate randomly...
>
> Yes, and if you've ever had to review source code pull requests where
> the letters "q" and "e" were used interchangeably, you'd also be
> appalled.

Huh? I'm talking about a real issue. I'm surprised you haven't run into
it.

> The different kinds of whitespace have different semantic meanings,

Only in your head (and Makefiles).


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Mar 20 06:15:21 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 21:15:21 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <87r31sz2yq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ej8ck8F8o0vU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87wpbkhoe2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58cf1a5d$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <878to0h1o0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpMbejgHxUg7CzQNLe1swdYnDQaNmEPs8N_b=nQQ8tj+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1489994351.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <874lyoh00a.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpexRYZTuhXzNCj9Xk_gc5R2K0GPTn2aLj4UjomAf4BWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.70.1489997723.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <87r31sz2yq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoSgXyGW2=mCSt9EiR-6TRJ_+kTmSdfbBM7bod+MM_8OA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 8:56 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> All terminal emulators, editors, text utils etc honor the
> convention out of the box. No wonder then that C source code files have
> consecutive lines indented randomly:
>
>    HT
>    SPC HT
>    SPC SPC SPC SPC HT
>
> etc. The tools show no visible difference between those variants, so you
> can't blame the developers for being inconsistent.

Actually you can, for the same reason that you expect programmers to
use ASCII Latin to write language keywords, not other symbols that
happen to look identical.

>> If you want those semantics, you should use spaces -
>
> That is precisely what we have done: HT is banished (except in
> Makefiles, but we have banished Makefiles as well...).
>
>> or better still, *change your needs* and don't align things like that.
>> In far too many fonts, this simply won't work.
>
> You must use fixed-width fonts even in the absense of HT's.
> [chomp examples]

Yes, there are good reasons for using monospaced fonts for certain
types of documents. But if those documents have been created
correctly, they won't be mixing tabs and spaces to achieve that
alignment - they'll be using spaces exclusively.

>>> The presence of a HT code point in a plain text file is not a
>>> semantic marker for indentation. It is a silly, traditional
>>> compression scheme for whitespace.
>>
>> Only if you truly expect and assume that. Can you show me a standards
>> document that says "the meaning of this byte/character value is this
>> sequence of this other byte/character"?
>
> I already mentioned three examples: lpr, cat on a terminal and Firefox.
> Ultimately, it's the terminals that dictate the de-facto standard.

Do they actually document that its meaning is strictly as you
describe? On all of my terminals, a tab is *NOT* the same thing as X
spaces - for example, highlighting with the mouse will grab the entire
tab as a single character, and will copy it to the clipboard as a
character. Also, check out 'man tabs'. It's trivially easy to tell the
terminal to use a different set of tab stops, and catting a file will
look different. Notice that I didn't say "reconfigure cat". It's not
cat that does this - it's only the terminal, and I suspect that every
modern terminal on every POSIX system supports it (since the 'tabs'
command is itself part of POSIX). What 'lpr' does with tabs I don't
know, because paper is an archaic data transmission format that I use
only when absolutely necessary (such as when sending information off
to the gummint). Firefox... what's the betting that it can be
configured too, maybe with CSS?

> I bet some terminal emulators support ANSI escape sequences to set the
> tab stops to arbitrary columns, but nobody uses that type-writer-era
> mechanism.

Probably not. Most people would use the tabs(1) command instead.

>>> If you ever had to review C source code pull requests where tabs and
>>> spaces alternate randomly...
>>
>> Yes, and if you've ever had to review source code pull requests where
>> the letters "q" and "e" were used interchangeably, you'd also be
>> appalled.
>
> Huh? I'm talking about a real issue. I'm surprised you haven't run into
> it.

Maybe I have, and just rejected the PR out of hand. It certainly isn't
something that I am forced to wrestle with. Every PR that I have
accepted has been internally consistent (either all tabs or all
spaces).

>> The different kinds of whitespace have different semantic meanings,
>
> Only in your head (and Makefiles).

And in the Unicode specifications, and in a lot of other people's
heads. But you're welcome to reject all that too.

ChrisA


From mal at europython.eu  Mon Mar 20 06:32:03 2017
From: mal at europython.eu (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 11:32:03 +0100
Subject: EuroPython 2017: We have liftoff!
Message-ID: <399ae331-030d-460d-58fc-3dfdd4955a09@europython.eu>

We are excited to announce the launch of the EuroPython 2017 website:


		 *** http://ep2017.europython.eu/ ***


	  The EuroPython conference will take place in sunny
	     Rimini, Italy, this year, from July 9 - 16.


EuroPython 2017 - The European Python Conference
------------------------------------------------

Here?s an overview of what you can expect in Rimini:

    We will start with a Beginner?s Day workshop and a Django Girls
    workshop on Sunday, July 9.

    The main 5 conference days follow, packed with keynotes, talks,
    training sessions, help desks, interactive sessions, panels and
    poster sessions.

    A complete PyData EuroPython is included as well.

    The two weekend days after the conference, July 15 and 16, are
    reserved for sprints.

Overall, we will again have 8 days worth of great Python content,
arranged in over 200 sessions, waiting for you.

In short:

 * Sunday, July 9: Beginners? Day Workshop and other workshops

 * Monday - Friday, July 10-14: Conference talks, keynotes, training

 * Saturday, Sunday, July 15-16: Sprints

Meet our sponsors
-----------------

All this would not be possible without the generous help of our launch
sponsors:

 * Intel
 * CFM
 * Facebook
 * Microsoft
 * numberly
 * criteo labs
 * JetBrains
 * Kiwi.com
 * yelp
 * 2ndQuadrant
 * TrustYou
 * demonware
 * Riverbank
 * Plone Foundation

In the coming days, we will announce the start of the Call for
Proposals and Early Bird Ticket sales. Please watch our EuroPython
blog for updates.

	     https://ep2017.europython.eu/social-media/

Enjoy,
?
EuroPython 2017 Team
http://ep2017.europython.eu/
http://www.europython-society.org/


PS: Please forward or retweet to help us reach all interested parties:
https://twitter.com/europython/status/843769909796655104
Thanks.


From daiyueweng at gmail.com  Mon Mar 20 07:36:17 2017
From: daiyueweng at gmail.com (Daiyue Weng)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 11:36:17 +0000
Subject: How to package my project and make it ready to be installed by using
 pip
Message-ID: <CAF_EDkv1XHD146dDym=EGXpd8X860p8Vt7+a2654PYrAfw+duw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, I using Python 3.5.2 on Linux Mint 18.1, and I am wondering how to
package my PyCharm Python project as a module so that it can installed by
someone else by using pip. Like what tools and script I need to use or
write in order to do that.

cheers


From zondo42 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 20 07:50:44 2017
From: zondo42 at gmail.com (Glenn Hutchings)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 04:50:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to package my project and make it ready to be installed by
 using pip
In-Reply-To: <mailman.76.1490009780.30671.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAF_EDkv1XHD146dDym=EGXpd8X860p8Vt7+a2654PYrAfw+duw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.76.1490009780.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <73e47f28-7bcc-4319-bdee-0c6d176c041a@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, 20 March 2017 11:36:34 UTC, Daiyue Weng  wrote:
> Hi, I using Python 3.5.2 on Linux Mint 18.1, and I am wondering how to
> package my PyCharm Python project as a module so that it can installed by
> someone else by using pip. Like what tools and script I need to use or
> write in order to do that.

A good place to start is https://packaging.python.org.


From marko at pacujo.net  Mon Mar 20 09:30:39 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 15:30:39 +0200
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ej8ck8F8o0vU1@mid.individual.net> <87wpbkhoe2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58cf1a5d$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <878to0h1o0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpMbejgHxUg7CzQNLe1swdYnDQaNmEPs8N_b=nQQ8tj+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1489994351.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <874lyoh00a.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpexRYZTuhXzNCj9Xk_gc5R2K0GPTn2aLj4UjomAf4BWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.70.1489997723.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <87r31sz2yq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmoSgXyGW2=mCSt9EiR-6TRJ_+kTmSdfbBM7bod+MM_8OA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.71.1490004931.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87mvcgyt1c.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 8:56 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> I bet some terminal emulators support ANSI escape sequences to set
>> the tab stops to arbitrary columns, but nobody uses that
>> type-writer-era mechanism.
>
> Probably not. Most people would use the tabs(1) command instead.

>From "man tabs":

       Use "-8" to set tabs to the standard interval.

I'd argue most people never touch the standard interval.

>>> The different kinds of whitespace have different semantic meanings,
>>
>> Only in your head (and Makefiles).
>
> And in the Unicode specifications,

Unicode was 25 years late to the game, but please point me to the
paragraph anyway.


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Mar 20 09:49:49 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 00:49:49 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <87mvcgyt1c.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ej8ck8F8o0vU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87wpbkhoe2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58cf1a5d$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <878to0h1o0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpMbejgHxUg7CzQNLe1swdYnDQaNmEPs8N_b=nQQ8tj+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1489994351.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <874lyoh00a.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpexRYZTuhXzNCj9Xk_gc5R2K0GPTn2aLj4UjomAf4BWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.70.1489997723.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <87r31sz2yq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmoSgXyGW2=mCSt9EiR-6TRJ_+kTmSdfbBM7bod+MM_8OA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.71.1490004931.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <87mvcgyt1c.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmryiK3XREh_2vcsQf+LQXmwVgSL_3ryassK+YEPMW_m+g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 12:30 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> And in the Unicode specifications,
>
> Unicode was 25 years late to the game, but please point me to the
> paragraph anyway.

3.3, D3 Character semantics: The semantics of a character are
determined by its identity, normative properties, and behavior.

That's the best I can find for you. The best statement that says "hey
you idiot, a character's name indicates the intended semantics of that
character". If U+0009's name were "SHORTER ENCODED FORM FOR SEQUENCE
OF SPACES", then I might be prepared to believe you. But it isn't.
It's "CHARACTER TABULATION". Does the specification really need to say
"don't be a fool"?

ChrisA


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Mon Mar 20 10:20:12 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 01:20:12 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ej8ck8F8o0vU1@mid.individual.net> <87wpbkhoe2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58cf1a5d$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <878to0h1o0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpMbejgHxUg7CzQNLe1swdYnDQaNmEPs8N_b=nQQ8tj+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1489994351.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <874lyoh00a.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpexRYZTuhXzNCj9Xk_gc5R2K0GPTn2aLj4UjomAf4BWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.70.1489997723.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <87r31sz2yq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmoSgXyGW2=mCSt9EiR-6TRJ_+kTmSdfbBM7bod+MM_8OA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.71.1490004931.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <87mvcgyt1c.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <58cfe51d$0$1622$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 12:30 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> Unicode was 25 years late to the game

I don't understand that comment. Are you suggesting that the oldest
convention wins? The Unix 8-column convention is older than Unicode, so it
wins?

Well... in that case, there are tab conventions that pre-date Unix, e.g.
those used by COBOL. The tabs command offers them as pre-defined standards.
>From the man page:

       -c     1,8,12,16,20,55
              COBOL, normal format.

But wait... before there was COBOL, there were *typewriters*. Its been many
years since I've had my hands on a manual typewriter, but if I remember
correctly the standard default tab setting was 1 inch.

So there you go. Unix was 50+ years late to the game.




-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From bc at freeuk.com  Mon Mar 20 10:24:27 2017
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 14:24:27 +0000
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.70.1489997723.30671.python-list@python.org>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ej8ck8F8o0vU1@mid.individual.net> <87wpbkhoe2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58cf1a5d$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <878to0h1o0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpMbejgHxUg7CzQNLe1swdYnDQaNmEPs8N_b=nQQ8tj+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1489994351.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <874lyoh00a.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpexRYZTuhXzNCj9Xk_gc5R2K0GPTn2aLj4UjomAf4BWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.70.1489997723.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oaoohf$htp$1@dont-email.me>

On 20/03/2017 08:15, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:

>> The tools I mentioned honor the traditional tab stop columns:
>>
>>     1, 9, 17, 25, 33, 41, 49, 57, 65, 73

> That means that you were depending, in your source file, on something
> that isn't actually part of the character's definition. You're
> depending on "horizontal tab" meaning those exact tab stops. If you
> want those semantics, you should use spaces

There are effectively two versions of the text: the slightly higher 
level, or 'marked up' version containing these special controls, and the 
'rendered' version you see displayed on the screen.

You're suggesting doing away with the controls, working only with the 
rendered snapshot version. Which means instead of pressing Backspace 
once to delete a tab, you might need to press it 8 times, or 1 to 8 
times if not at the start.

This is little different to inserting hard newlines at the end of each 
visible line of a paragraph, to ensure that it is shown how you want it 
and isn't 'reflowed' depending on the width of someone's display.

Which work great - until you have to edit the text with those newlines 
present, which can be a lot of work.

So really you want to keep and work with the original version, not the 
rendered one.

In the case of tabs, it might be possible to take the rendered text (I 
call it 'flat' text because the tabs have been flattened out) and 
reconstruct the tabs, but there are some problems (are those 8 spaces 
one tab, or two or four, or were they just 8 spaces?).

It might be a little easier if the text represented, say, Python source 
code.

But it would be better IMO if tabs were used, with some scheme for 
suggesting the tab width (or set of tab stops) that is recommended (eg. 
a comment at the top).

-- 
bartc


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Mar 20 10:32:28 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 01:32:28 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <oaoohf$htp$1@dont-email.me>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ej8ck8F8o0vU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87wpbkhoe2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58cf1a5d$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <878to0h1o0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpMbejgHxUg7CzQNLe1swdYnDQaNmEPs8N_b=nQQ8tj+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1489994351.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <874lyoh00a.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpexRYZTuhXzNCj9Xk_gc5R2K0GPTn2aLj4UjomAf4BWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.70.1489997723.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <oaoohf$htp$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrE_kLRu_cp93+R3WKBAegy0XWLkn9KZQkfiFa-pTSxXA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 1:24 AM, BartC <bc at freeuk.com> wrote:
> But it would be better IMO if tabs were used, with some scheme for
> suggesting the tab width (or set of tab stops) that is recommended (eg. a
> comment at the top).

If you absolutely have to, then sure, put a directive in some
machine-readable way at the top or bottom of the file. It's like the
coding cookie that Python follows - some editors also respect it. But
I would prefer to just use tabs *without* suggesting a width, because
each one represents *one indent*. Not a number of spaces. One
indentation level.

ChrisA


From davidgshi at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Mar 20 10:53:29 2017
From: davidgshi at yahoo.co.uk (David Shi)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 14:53:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to search out all Zip codes and replace with the first 2
 digits, in a Pandas dataframe, with the use of regex?
References: <403347784.6411726.1490021609515.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <403347784.6411726.1490021609515@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi, there,
Can anyone help?
How to search out all Zip codes and replace with the first 2 digits, in a Pandas dataframe, with the use of regex?

For instance, a ZIP code 33132 was found and replaced with 33.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Regards.
David

From bc at freeuk.com  Mon Mar 20 11:19:47 2017
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 15:19:47 +0000
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.78.1490020351.30671.python-list@python.org>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ej8ck8F8o0vU1@mid.individual.net> <87wpbkhoe2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58cf1a5d$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <878to0h1o0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpMbejgHxUg7CzQNLe1swdYnDQaNmEPs8N_b=nQQ8tj+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1489994351.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <874lyoh00a.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpexRYZTuhXzNCj9Xk_gc5R2K0GPTn2aLj4UjomAf4BWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.70.1489997723.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <oaoohf$htp$1@dont-email.me>
 <CAPTjJmrE_kLRu_cp93+R3WKBAegy0XWLkn9KZQkfiFa-pTSxXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.78.1490020351.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oaorp7$tb6$1@dont-email.me>

On 20/03/2017 14:32, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 1:24 AM, BartC <bc at freeuk.com> wrote:
>> But it would be better IMO if tabs were used, with some scheme for
>> suggesting the tab width (or set of tab stops) that is recommended (eg. a
>> comment at the top).
>
> If you absolutely have to, then sure, put a directive in some
> machine-readable way at the top or bottom of the file. It's like the
> coding cookie that Python follows - some editors also respect it. But
> I would prefer to just use tabs *without* suggesting a width, because
> each one represents *one indent*. Not a number of spaces. One
> indentation level.

For leading tabs at the start of a new statement that wouldn't be a 
problem. Changing the tab width shown just spreads out statements more, 
or less, horizontally.

It works - there is no jarring misalignment - because each tab 
corresponds to the same N spaces, whatever N happens to be.

But tabs are also used after statements, before comments for example, or 
to line up elements in tables. Then it doesn't work, because tabs may 
represent 1 to N spaces:

Using N=4, with 1 tab before each number:

     (one,   1),         #comment 1
     (two,   2),         #comment 2
     (three, 3),         #comment 3

Displayed using N=3:

    (one, 1),         #comment 1
    (two, 2),         #comment 2
    (three,  3),         #comment 3

Displayed using N=6:

        (one, 1),               #comment 1
        (two, 2),               #comment 2
        (three,     3),               #comment 3

Even tabs at the start of a line are sometimes using to line things up 
with a previous line; here with N=4, and 5 tabs before B and C:

  longfunctionname (  A,  #comment 1
                      B,  #comment 2
                      C)  #comment 3

With N=2:

longfunctionname (  A,  #comment 1
           B,  #comment 2
           C)  #comment 3

With N=8:

longfunctionname (  A,  #comment 1
                                         B,      #comment 2
                                         C)      #comment 3


-- 
bartc


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Mar 20 11:32:55 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 02:32:55 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <oaorp7$tb6$1@dont-email.me>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ej8ck8F8o0vU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87wpbkhoe2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58cf1a5d$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <878to0h1o0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpMbejgHxUg7CzQNLe1swdYnDQaNmEPs8N_b=nQQ8tj+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1489994351.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <874lyoh00a.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpexRYZTuhXzNCj9Xk_gc5R2K0GPTn2aLj4UjomAf4BWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.70.1489997723.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <oaoohf$htp$1@dont-email.me>
 <CAPTjJmrE_kLRu_cp93+R3WKBAegy0XWLkn9KZQkfiFa-pTSxXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.78.1490020351.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <oaorp7$tb6$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoif0-HHFyV3pT+4WnHDAt3Rq_k_fhwPUcpSLKOKJWx-w@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 2:19 AM, BartC <bc at freeuk.com> wrote:
> But tabs are also used after statements, before comments for example, or to
> line up elements in tables. Then it doesn't work, because tabs may represent
> 1 to N spaces:
>
> Using N=4, with 1 tab before each number:
>
>     (one,   1),         #comment 1
>     (two,   2),         #comment 2
>     (three, 3),         #comment 3
>
> Displayed using N=3:
>
>    (one, 1),         #comment 1
>    (two, 2),         #comment 2
>    (three,  3),         #comment 3
>
> Displayed using N=6:
>
>        (one, 1),               #comment 1
>        (two, 2),               #comment 2
>        (three,     3),               #comment 3
>
> Even tabs at the start of a line are sometimes using to line things up with
> a previous line; here with N=4, and 5 tabs before B and C:
>
>  longfunctionname (  A,  #comment 1
>                      B,  #comment 2
>                      C)  #comment 3
>
> With N=2:
>
> longfunctionname (  A,  #comment 1
>           B,  #comment 2
>           C)  #comment 3
>
> With N=8:
>
> longfunctionname (  A,  #comment 1
>                                         B,      #comment 2
>                                         C)      #comment 3

My points here are the same as for the other examples:

1) Preferably, don't do it at all.
2) If you absolutely have to do it, then by definition you're counting
character slots, so use spaces, not tabs.

Note that PEP 8 specifically forbids one of these kinds of usages:

"""
More than one space around an assignment (or other) operator to align
it with another.

Yes:

x = 1
y = 2
long_variable = 3

No:

x             = 1
y             = 2
long_variable = 3
"""

The reasoning behind this also applies to most of the other forms:
you're fiddling with formatting in ways that have to be forever
fiddled with as you make edits.

Here's a suggestion: Use a single tab after a statement and before the
hash. Exactly one tab. Then configure your editor to right-align that.
If someone else's editor doesn't right-align, no big deal, and you'll
get some measure of alignment anyway (eg if tabs are every eight
spaces, it rounds the alignment off to the next eight-mark); it won't
hurt anything, as those of us who don't care about the alignment won't
be bothered anyway.

ChrisA


From toby at tobiah.org  Mon Mar 20 11:40:34 2017
From: toby at tobiah.org (Tobiah)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 08:40:34 -0700
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>

> I wonder whether the tabs versus spaces divide is closely aligned to the
> Windows versus Unix/Linux divide?
> 
> It seems to me that Unix users are typically going to be using Unix tools
> which often assume spaces are used for indentation, and consequently cope
> badly with tabs. 

I can't think of any classic Unix tool that behaves in a way that would support this
point of view.




From random832 at fastmail.com  Mon Mar 20 11:54:45 2017
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 11:54:45 -0400
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAE6NSRBbPgYh49UQT8MeQBKGaH9-c+vPAbAF8auTtCyFUAa0FQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
 <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPjBxg8FnLf_PsBqxnv4cz3E_=vq8OF-FySd00ZbCWmVcgNgSQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDd3-4XggWtVa83qdxw3uLiSAKxfOSLxwHPaPhWrpKtHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.53.1489954294.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <ej8d04F8qjvU1@mid.individual.net>
 <CAE6NSRBbPgYh49UQT8MeQBKGaH9-c+vPAbAF8auTtCyFUAa0FQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1490025285.1155445.917284336.67A94C1E@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017, at 18:48, Mikhail V wrote:
> Sadly, many people believe that a code editor
> should be monospaced, but generally that does not
> have any sense.

It's also a bit self-reinforcing because there aren't many good coding
fonts that are proportional. And in fact there are issues for coding
usability in proportional fonts that aren't even present for monospaced
fonts. Confusables like lI1| O0 are only the beginning of the story. If
, and ' are only one pixel wide each, it's hard to tell which order they
are in. And in many proportional fonts it is difficult or impossible to
distinguish '' from ". Other issues also exist, such as """ having more
space between the ticks of a single character than between characters,
looking more like '""'. @ and % and sometimes # are too wide and too
short. Minus is too narrow, too thick, and too low owing to its design
as a hyphen (U+2212 is usually nicer, but not used in programming
languages). < and > are wide and low, which works great as relational
operators but makes them visually unpleasant as brackets - and >=
doesn't look nice either. {} are often too tall, too narrow, and a
little bit too curly.

So people try coding in the proportional fonts available on their
systems and rightly note how ugly it is.


From robin at reportlab.com  Mon Mar 20 12:32:05 2017
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 16:32:05 +0000
Subject: cross python version randomness
Message-ID: <5e23aa27-a14f-0be6-d5f9-7d780b01a01b@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Is there a way to get the same sequences of random numbers in python 2.7 and 
python >= 3.3?

I notice that this simple script produces different values in python 2.7 and >=3.3

C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>cat s.py
import sys, random
print(sys.version)
random.seed(103)
for i in range(5):
     print(i, random.randint(10,25))

C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>\python27\python s.py
2.7.13 (v2.7.13:a06454b1afa1, Dec 17 2016, 20:53:40) [MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)]
0 25
1 17
2 21
3 21
4 13

C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>\python33\python s.py
3.3.5 (v3.3.5:62cf4e77f785, Mar  9 2014, 10:35:05) [MSC v.1600 64 bit (AMD64)]
0 24
1 16
2 12
3 13
4 22

However, when I use random.random() all seems to be the same so this script
C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>cat u.py
import sys, random
print(sys.version)
random.seed(103)
for i in range(5):
     print(i, random.random())

seems to be fine


C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>\python27\python u.py
2.7.13 (v2.7.13:a06454b1afa1, Dec 17 2016, 20:53:40) [MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)]
(0, 0.9790501200727744)
(1, 0.45629827629184827)
(2, 0.7188470341002364)
(3, 0.7348862425853395)
(4, 0.21490166849706338)

C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>\python33\python u.py
3.3.5 (v3.3.5:62cf4e77f785, Mar  9 2014, 10:35:05) [MSC v.1600 64 bit (AMD64)]
0 0.9790501200727744
1 0.45629827629184827
2 0.7188470341002364
3 0.7348862425853395
4 0.21490166849706338

presumably randint is doing something different to get its values.
-- 
Robin Becker



From daiyueweng at gmail.com  Mon Mar 20 12:37:37 2017
From: daiyueweng at gmail.com (Daiyue Weng)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 16:37:37 +0000
Subject: How to package my project and make it ready to be installed by
 using pip
In-Reply-To: <CAF_EDks23y+Qt9C58WinB8x2pGEKY4zHAUNn7aC3t=5eVjTBFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF_EDkv1XHD146dDym=EGXpd8X860p8Vt7+a2654PYrAfw+duw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.76.1490009780.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <73e47f28-7bcc-4319-bdee-0c6d176c041a@googlegroups.com>
 <CAF_EDks23y+Qt9C58WinB8x2pGEKY4zHAUNn7aC3t=5eVjTBFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF_EDkt_-KAbW4U6LOxjRFKHz507rBFeAZ-9pL6S=1Bzi1+5AQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have been Python Packaging User Guide <https://packaging.python.org/>,
and I created a setup.py in my PyCharm project root,

from setuptools import setup, find_packages
from os import path

here = path.abspath(path.dirname(__file__))

packages = find_packages(exclude=['contrib', 'docs', 'tests*'])

setup(
    name='lumar_stackdriver_logging',

    description='A sample Python project',


    author='project_dev',
    author_email='pypa-dev at googlegroups.com',


    # Choose your license
    license='GNU GPL',

    # See https://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=list_classifiers
    classifiers=[
        # How mature is this project? Common values are
        #   3 - Alpha
        #   4 - Beta
        #   5 - Production/Stable
        'Development Status :: 3 - Alpha',

        # Indicate who your project is intended for
        'Intended Audience :: Project Developers',
        'Topic :: System :: Logging',

        # Pick your license as you wish (should match "license" above)
        'License :: OSI Approved :: GNU General Public License (GPL)',

        # Specify the Python versions you support here. In particular, ensure
        # that you indicate whether you support Python 2, Python 3 or both.
        # 'Programming Language :: Python :: 3',
        # 'Programming Language :: Python :: 3.2',
        # 'Programming Language :: Python :: 3.3',
        # 'Programming Language :: Python :: 3.4',
        'Programming Language :: Python :: 3.5',
    ],

    # What does your project relate to?
    keywords='sample setuptools development',


    # You can just specify the packages manually here if your project is
    # simple. Or you can use find_packages().
    packages=packages,
)


I uploaded/committed the project into a Git repo/BitBucket, what I
want is anyone who can access the repo, can deploy the project from
the repo to their machines using pip.

I am wondering how to achieve that?


Many thanks


On 20 March 2017 at 11:57, Daiyue Weng <daiyueweng at gmail.com> wrote:

> thanks, i am reading it.
>
> On 20 March 2017 at 11:50, Glenn Hutchings <zondo42 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, 20 March 2017 11:36:34 UTC, Daiyue Weng  wrote:
>> > Hi, I using Python 3.5.2 on Linux Mint 18.1, and I am wondering how to
>> > package my PyCharm Python project as a module so that it can installed
>> by
>> > someone else by using pip. Like what tools and script I need to use or
>> > write in order to do that.
>>
>> A good place to start is https://packaging.python.org.
>> --
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>


From saxri89 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 20 13:05:23 2017
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 10:05:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: relative paths connect using python
Message-ID: <c268d52d-345d-4210-8753-519ff846e7d3@googlegroups.com>

i have a little confused problem. i want to store some paths from images using python 2.7 in windows 10.
i have some relative path like this var1='C:/my/store/path' and in the final folder where in my example is the name 'path' inside that folder i have some images like this :
-path
   -myimage_1010_im.png
   -myimage_1010_im1.png
   -myimage_1010_im3.png
   -myimage_1020_im.png
   -myimage_1020_im1.png
can i connect my relative path like var1 with the images using only the number of the mid name of images and finaly i take the full original path like this var1='C:/my/store/path/myimage_1010_im.png' ?
i try something but not work 
import os
cwd = os.getcwd()
path = os.path.join(cwd, "my_file")


From jladasky at itu.edu  Mon Mar 20 13:05:54 2017
From: jladasky at itu.edu (jladasky at itu.edu)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 10:05:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.53.1489954294.30671.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAE6NSRDRqxFfZ_t0+w6aFFDPG93VWf_MLr1KrOzxDmpXVFjhpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <85shmbfd0o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAE6NSRBpHUwaoQEPR31hMt--SvYvV45L0U_w+0G3UrNNAkOzLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0cbf3858-c162-dee4-1018-5007e32d80b3@posteo.de>
 <CAE6NSRAP1eoZAk4O2CNKbA=Xrded+bk3onWHRMUJJ5q20xiTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPjBxg8FnLf_PsBqxnv4cz3E_=vq8OF-FySd00ZbCWmVcgNgSQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDd3-4XggWtVa83qdxw3uLiSAKxfOSLxwHPaPhWrpKtHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.53.1489954294.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7890ea4c-1b57-4798-ad4c-3cfe48a98011@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 1:11:45 PM UTC-7, Mikhail V wrote:

> Trying to line up things after a non-whitespace character, e.g. like this?
> 
> myList = [
>     ["a",                         "b", "c"],
>     ["mess up your alignment",     "b", "c"],
>     ["a",                         "b", "c"]
>     ]
> 
> Well there is no easy solution possible, especially if you want it
> to look exactly the same on all computers and editors.
> Before something like elastic tabstops will be a standard,
> it will continue to confuse people.
> Spaces are still one of the worst solutions, although it will
> give same results on monospaced editors. 

This is a good example of exactly WHY I continue to write code using monospaced fonts, and spaces for indentation.  The results are unambiguous.  If I want vertical alignment between specific characters in different rows, I can have it.  I am not only interested in the indentation of the first character in a line of code.  Yes, sometimes I have to adjust the spacing manually, but I can live with that.

Now, my word-processing documents make full use of styles, and in that context I've transcended tabs completely.  For casual documents I might find myself falling back into the email-like habit of pushing "Enter" twice between paragraphs.  But when it's time to get serious, I define an appropriate paragraph style.

I have read about elastic tabstops.  If they become a standard and address my needs (it looks like they should), I will be happy to switch.

If you want to make your head spin, investigate how to represent polyphonic musical notation in a data structure that ensures it will be drawn accurately on staff paper, as well as played correctly by a synthesizer.  Code is child's play by comparison.


From daiyueweng at gmail.com  Mon Mar 20 13:20:32 2017
From: daiyueweng at gmail.com (Daiyue Weng)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 17:20:32 +0000
Subject: How to package my project and make it ready to be installed by
 using pip
In-Reply-To: <CAF_EDkt_-KAbW4U6LOxjRFKHz507rBFeAZ-9pL6S=1Bzi1+5AQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF_EDkv1XHD146dDym=EGXpd8X860p8Vt7+a2654PYrAfw+duw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.76.1490009780.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <73e47f28-7bcc-4319-bdee-0c6d176c041a@googlegroups.com>
 <CAF_EDks23y+Qt9C58WinB8x2pGEKY4zHAUNn7aC3t=5eVjTBFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF_EDkt_-KAbW4U6LOxjRFKHz507rBFeAZ-9pL6S=1Bzi1+5AQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF_EDkurETMzDb2DnGLY5vxAQabF1AAObBnAfaiMijmpxQuWFA@mail.gmail.com>

If I tried

pip3 install git+https://user_name at bitbucket.org/user_name/project_name.git

the package would get installed, but there are no python files that have
been installed in /usr/local/lib/python3.5/dist-packages/project_name

Hence I couldn't import any class in the package in python.

I am wondering how to fix this.

On 20 March 2017 at 16:37, Daiyue Weng <daiyueweng at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have been Python Packaging User Guide <https://packaging.python.org/>,
> and I created a setup.py in my PyCharm project root,
>
> from setuptools import setup, find_packages
> from os import path
>
> here = path.abspath(path.dirname(__file__))
>
> packages = find_packages(exclude=['contrib', 'docs', 'tests*'])
>
> setup(
>     name='lumar_stackdriver_logging',
>
>     description='A sample Python project',
>
>
>     author='project_dev',
>     author_email='pypa-dev at googlegroups.com',
>
>
>     # Choose your license
>     license='GNU GPL',
>
>     # See https://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=list_classifiers
>     classifiers=[
>         # How mature is this project? Common values are
>         #   3 - Alpha
>         #   4 - Beta
>         #   5 - Production/Stable
>         'Development Status :: 3 - Alpha',
>
>         # Indicate who your project is intended for
>         'Intended Audience :: Project Developers',
>         'Topic :: System :: Logging',
>
>         # Pick your license as you wish (should match "license" above)
>         'License :: OSI Approved :: GNU General Public License (GPL)',
>
>         # Specify the Python versions you support here. In particular, ensure
>         # that you indicate whether you support Python 2, Python 3 or both.
>         # 'Programming Language :: Python :: 3',
>         # 'Programming Language :: Python :: 3.2',
>         # 'Programming Language :: Python :: 3.3',
>         # 'Programming Language :: Python :: 3.4',
>         'Programming Language :: Python :: 3.5',
>     ],
>
>     # What does your project relate to?
>     keywords='sample setuptools development',
>
>
>     # You can just specify the packages manually here if your project is
>     # simple. Or you can use find_packages().
>     packages=packages,
> )
>
>
> I uploaded/committed the project into a Git repo/BitBucket, what I want is anyone who can access the repo, can deploy the project from the repo to their machines using pip.
>
> I am wondering how to achieve that?
>
>
> Many thanks
>
>
> On 20 March 2017 at 11:57, Daiyue Weng <daiyueweng at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> thanks, i am reading it.
>>
>> On 20 March 2017 at 11:50, Glenn Hutchings <zondo42 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, 20 March 2017 11:36:34 UTC, Daiyue Weng  wrote:
>>> > Hi, I using Python 3.5.2 on Linux Mint 18.1, and I am wondering how to
>>> > package my PyCharm Python project as a module so that it can installed
>>> by
>>> > someone else by using pip. Like what tools and script I need to use or
>>> > write in order to do that.
>>>
>>> A good place to start is https://packaging.python.org.
>>> --
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>
>>
>>
>


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Mon Mar 20 13:37:09 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 04:37:09 +1100
Subject: relative paths connect using python
References: <c268d52d-345d-4210-8753-519ff846e7d3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <58d01348$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 04:05 am, Xristos Xristoou wrote:

> i have a little confused problem. i want to store some paths from images
> using python 2.7 in windows 10. i have some relative path like this
> var1='C:/my/store/path' 

That's not a relative path, that's an absolute path.


> and in the final folder where in my example is the 
> name 'path' inside that folder i have some images like this : -path
>    -myimage_1010_im.png
>    -myimage_1010_im1.png
>    -myimage_1010_im3.png
>    -myimage_1020_im.png
>    -myimage_1020_im1.png
> can i connect my relative path like var1 


var1 is not a relative path. It is an absolute path. Absolute paths start
with a drive letter like C. Relative paths have no drive letter and start
in the current working directory.


> with the images using only the 
> number of the mid name of images and finaly i take the full original path
> like this var1='C:/my/store/path/myimage_1010_im.png' ? 

I am afraid I have no idea what your code is doing. Instead of describing
what your Python code isn't doing, can you show the code so we can see what
it is doing?

And please use variable names that mean something.

# terrible variable names
var, var1, var2

# good variable names
directory_name, full_path, filename



> i try something 
> but not work import os cwd = os.getcwd()
> path = os.path.join(cwd, "my_file")

That works perfectly for me:

py> import os
py> cwd = os.getcwd()
py> path = os.path.join(cwd, "my_file")
py> print path
/home/steve/my_file


What were you expecting it to do? Can you tell us what result you expected,
and what result you got?





-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From jladasky at itu.edu  Mon Mar 20 13:38:59 2017
From: jladasky at itu.edu (jladasky at itu.edu)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 10:38:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: relative paths connect using python
In-Reply-To: <c268d52d-345d-4210-8753-519ff846e7d3@googlegroups.com>
References: <c268d52d-345d-4210-8753-519ff846e7d3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5bf25af-bd95-4c1f-a79c-1e26788a6692@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 10:05:33 AM UTC-7, Xristos Xristoou wrote:
> i have a little confused problem. i want to store some paths from images using python 2.7 in windows 10.
> i have some relative path like this var1='C:/my/store/path' and in the final folder where in my example is the name 'path' inside that folder i have some images like this :
> -path
>    -myimage_1010_im.png
>    -myimage_1010_im1.png
>    -myimage_1010_im3.png
>    -myimage_1020_im.png
>    -myimage_1020_im1.png
> can i connect my relative path like var1 with the images using only the number of the mid name of images and finaly i take the full original path like this var1='C:/my/store/path/myimage_1010_im.png' ?
> i try something but not work 
> import os
> cwd = os.getcwd()
> path = os.path.join(cwd, "my_file")

I think you are new here.  In order to get the best possible assistance, you always need to share as much information as you can.

You posted your code.  That's a good start.

You did not post the error message you received. "i try something but not work" is never enough information.  Post your actual error messages as well.  What do they say?

Are you new to programming or just to Python?  Reading the error messages is sometimes hard for new programmers.  But once you can read them, you can fix your own problems.


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Mon Mar 20 13:39:13 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 04:39:13 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 02:40 am, Tobiah wrote:

>> I wonder whether the tabs versus spaces divide is closely aligned to the
>> Windows versus Unix/Linux divide?
>> 
>> It seems to me that Unix users are typically going to be using Unix tools
>> which often assume spaces are used for indentation, and consequently cope
>> badly with tabs.
> 
> I can't think of any classic Unix tool that behaves in a way that would
> support this point of view.

And yet I'm forever being told by my Linux sys admin work mates "don't use
tabs, because they break everything". For another example, see JMZ's essay
(its already been linked to twice in this thread, look it up).

We've had a similar attitude right here from Marko, who insists that
anything except 8-column tabs is the Devil's Work. (Or something like
that -- to be perfectly honest, I'm not really sure I understand *what*
Marko's objection is.)

So okay, if tabs work fine with Unix tools, why do so many Unix people avoid
tabs as if they were radioactive plague?




-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From saxri89 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 20 13:49:39 2017
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 10:49:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: relative paths connect using python
In-Reply-To: <c268d52d-345d-4210-8753-519ff846e7d3@googlegroups.com>
References: <c268d52d-345d-4210-8753-519ff846e7d3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2d596678-1382-4135-8545-e599d17f8949@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 20 ??????? 2017 - 7:05:33 ?.?. UTC+2, ? ??????? Xristos Xristoou ??????:
> i have a little confused problem. i want to store some paths from images using python 2.7 in windows 10.
> i have some relative path like this var1='C:/my/store/path' and in the final folder where in my example is the name 'path' inside that folder i have some images like this :
> -path
>    -myimage_1010_im.png
>    -myimage_1010_im1.png
>    -myimage_1010_im3.png
>    -myimage_1020_im.png
>    -myimage_1020_im1.png
> can i connect my relative path like var1 with the images using only the number of the mid name of images and finaly i take the full original path like this var1='C:/my/store/path/myimage_1010_im.png' ?
> i try something but not work 
> import os
> cwd = os.getcwd()
> path = os.path.join(cwd, "my_file")

i want like this
a=1010
path = os.path.join(cwd, a")
print path

and the path i need full absolute path like this : var1='C:/my/store/path/myimage_1010_im.png'

in my first code i dont have error but i take wrong for me path not full


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Mon Mar 20 13:51:48 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 04:51:48 +1100
Subject: __del__ is not called after creating a new reference
References: <20170317145459.GA3628@redhat.com>
 <mailman.93.1489762697.2614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58d016b6$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 01:54 am, Oleg Nesterov wrote:

[...]
> However, this trivial test-case
> 
> class C:
> def __del__(self):
> print("DEL")
> global X
> X = self
> C()
> print(X)
> X = 0
> print(X)
> 
> shows that __del__ is called only once, it is not called again after "X =
> 0":
> 
> DEL
> <__main__.C object at 0x7f067695f4a8>
> 0

I cannot confirm that test case. When I try it, I get NameError:


py> class C:
...     def __del__(self):
...         print("DEL")
...         global X
...         X = self
...
py> C()
<__main__.C object at 0xb785c48c>
py> print(X)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
NameError: name 'X' is not defined
py> X = 0
py> print(X)
0


I've tried it in both Python 2.7 and 3.5 and get the same NameError. I
suspect that you are not running the code you have shown us.




-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From steve+python at pearwood.info  Mon Mar 20 13:57:38 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 04:57:38 +1100
Subject: __del__ is not called after creating a new reference
References: <20170317145459.GA3628@redhat.com>
 <mailman.93.1489762697.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <58d016b6$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <58d01814$0$1587$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 04:51 am, Steve D'Aprano wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 01:54 am, Oleg Nesterov wrote:
> 
> [...]
>> However, this trivial test-case
[...]

> I cannot confirm that test case. When I try it, I get NameError:

Ah, never mind! I was running this in the interactive interpreter, and
forgot that it saves a reference to the last result using _ so of course
the __del__ method didn't run at all.


I changed the code to run:

c = C()
del c

and now I'm seeing the same thing as you: DEL is only printed once.



-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Mon Mar 20 14:35:30 2017
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 18:35:30 GMT
Subject: relative paths connect using python
References: <c268d52d-345d-4210-8753-519ff846e7d3@googlegroups.com>
 <2d596678-1382-4135-8545-e599d17f8949@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ShVzA.361515$3a3.232597@fx43.am4>

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 10:49:39 -0700, Xristos Xristoou wrote:

> ?? ???????, 20 ??????? 2017 - 7:05:33 ?.?. UTC+2, ? ??????? Xristos
> Xristoou ??????:
>> i have a little confused problem. i want to store some paths from
>> images using python 2.7 in windows 10.
>> i have some relative path like this var1='C:/my/store/path' and in the
>> final folder where in my example is the name 'path' inside that folder
>> i have some images like this :
>> -path
>>    -myimage_1010_im.png -myimage_1010_im1.png -myimage_1010_im3.png
>>    -myimage_1020_im.png -myimage_1020_im1.png
>> can i connect my relative path like var1 with the images using only the
>> number of the mid name of images and finaly i take the full original
>> path like this var1='C:/my/store/path/myimage_1010_im.png' ?
>> i try something but not work import os cwd = os.getcwd()
>> path = os.path.join(cwd, "my_file")
> 
> i want like this a=1010 path = os.path.join(cwd, a")
> print path
> 
> and the path i need full absolute path like this :
> var1='C:/my/store/path/myimage_1010_im.png'
> 
> in my first code i dont have error but i take wrong for me path not full

without specifying what you expect to see & what you are actually seeing 
it is difficult for anyone to understand your problem let alon provide 
the solution. 

that said it looks like you need to develop your debugging skills so that 
you can hep yourself, try adding print statements at critical points in 
your program to check that your variables contain what you think they 
should ate each stage, this will help you pinpoint the point in your code 
you need to investigate.

example:

cwd=os.getcwd()
print (cwd) // is cwd what you expect? if not why not
path = os.path.join(cwd,'myfile')
print (path) // is path what you expect  ?if not why not?

when you identify the part that is wrong post back with what you expect & 
what you get.
 
I was making donuts and now I'm on a bus!


From torriem at gmail.com  Mon Mar 20 14:37:24 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 12:37:24 -0600
Subject: relative paths connect using python
In-Reply-To: <2d596678-1382-4135-8545-e599d17f8949@googlegroups.com>
References: <c268d52d-345d-4210-8753-519ff846e7d3@googlegroups.com>
 <2d596678-1382-4135-8545-e599d17f8949@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ee4a849c-7684-8cad-53d4-0e966b979e60@gmail.com>

On 03/20/2017 11:49 AM, Xristos Xristoou wrote:

> and the path i need full absolute path like this : var1='C:/my/store/path/myimage_1010_im.png'
> 
> in my first code i dont have error but i take wrong for me path not full

Since you have not provided any sample output from your program, there's
no way we can replicate the problem you are having.  Please provide the
output from your program (cut and paste it from the cmd.exe window).
You may also want to print out the other variables, such as cwd, so you
can tell exactly what it's doing.

Hopefully through this process you can learn how to debug programs.




From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Mon Mar 20 14:56:10 2017
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 14:56:10 -0400
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+zwj2LrcAdB_WN8nrXK4ynRE-TqGC=-KKbB_Nk9gNDadg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Steve D'Aprano
<steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 02:40 am, Tobiah wrote:
>
>>> I wonder whether the tabs versus spaces divide is closely aligned to the
>>> Windows versus Unix/Linux divide?
>>>
>>> It seems to me that Unix users are typically going to be using Unix tools
>>> which often assume spaces are used for indentation, and consequently cope
>>> badly with tabs.
>>
>> I can't think of any classic Unix tool that behaves in a way that would
>> support this point of view.
>
> And yet I'm forever being told by my Linux sys admin work mates "don't use
> tabs, because they break everything". For another example, see JMZ's essay
> (its already been linked to twice in this thread, look it up).
>
> We've had a similar attitude right here from Marko, who insists that
> anything except 8-column tabs is the Devil's Work. (Or something like
> that -- to be perfectly honest, I'm not really sure I understand *what*
> Marko's objection is.)
>
> So okay, if tabs work fine with Unix tools, why do so many Unix people avoid
> tabs as if they were radioactive plague?
>
>
>
>
> --
> Steve
> ?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
> enough, things got worse.
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

I was the first to post that this topic would go nowhere.  77 posts
later, for some reason the word 'spaceist' bothers me.  Why do people
debate spaces versus tabs?  I don't think it has to do with spaces or
tabs, but something more sociological or psychological.

-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Mon Mar 20 14:57:51 2017
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 18:57:51 GMT
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1489878995.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <8760j6jgva.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPjBxg_v=1sQra4smhKgQJy1KtMhB5JtEJsKK+pWk+8Jc1OVRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.30.1489881711.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <u9ydncyx3sWDY1PFnZ2dnUU7-afNnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <e7a2160a-33be-4afe-8848-96f4e635d19a@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnocu1nc.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <921339c5-a64f-d4b5-c64a-947b47e3afe5@lucidity.plus.com>
 <mailman.57.1489964670.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <PCVzA.361516$3a3.136977@fx43.am4>

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 23:01:22 +0000, Erik wrote:

> On 19/03/17 22:29, Jon Ribbens wrote:
>> On 2017-03-19, breamoreboy at gmail.com <breamoreboy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 9:54:52 PM UTC, Larry Hudson wrote:
>>>> A trivial point (and irrelevant)...  The thing I find annoying about
>>>> an editor set to expand tabs to spaces is that it takes one keypress
>>>> to indent but four (or whatever) to unindent.
>>>
>>> No, just about every editor that I've ever used has SHIFT-TAB set to
>>> undo whatever TAB does.
>>
>> Not to mention plenty of editors (e.g. vim) will unindent when you
>> press backspace.
> 
> I don't think that's strictly true. If you have just indented with a tab
> character, then backspace will delete that tab character. But, if you
> indent with either 4 spaces or use the Tab key with "expandtab" enabled,
> then it will just delete the right-most space character.
> 
> The closest I've come to an "unindent" in vim so far is Ctrl-D, which
> backs up one "shift width's" worth.
> 
> 
> For sanity, in 'vim', I always use (for my own Python code, at least):
> 
> :set sw=4 ts=4 expandtabs
> 
> That way, all tab keypresses insert 4 spaces instead of a tab and the
> shift operations ('<' and '>') will do the same. This also means the
> "back up one shift-width" command (Ctrl-D) is the same as a "dedent".
> 
> 
> If you also use the autoindent setting (:set ai), then writing code is
> as easy as pressing enter and Tab to start a new suite, enter only to
> continue a suite, and enter and Ctrl-D to drop back to the outer suite.
> 
> E.

I have just tested this with geany & it works a charm,

personally I prefer tabs for setting my indent levels, it feels more 
logical & breaks nothing if the font or tab size is changed but votes 
have been counted & the jury has returned a verdict

Spaces are the preferred option, but you are still able to make your own 
choice.




-- 
It's a very *__UN*lucky week in which to be took dead.
		-- Churchy La Femme


From marko at pacujo.net  Mon Mar 20 14:58:03 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 20:58:03 +0200
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ej8ck8F8o0vU1@mid.individual.net> <87wpbkhoe2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58cf1a5d$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <878to0h1o0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpMbejgHxUg7CzQNLe1swdYnDQaNmEPs8N_b=nQQ8tj+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1489994351.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <874lyoh00a.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpexRYZTuhXzNCj9Xk_gc5R2K0GPTn2aLj4UjomAf4BWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.70.1489997723.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <87r31sz2yq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmoSgXyGW2=mCSt9EiR-6TRJ_+kTmSdfbBM7bod+MM_8OA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.71.1490004931.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <87mvcgyt1c.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58cfe51d$0$1622$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <8760j3g4hw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info>:

> On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 12:30 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>
>> Unicode was 25 years late to the game
>
> I don't understand that comment. Are you suggesting that the oldest
> convention wins? The Unix 8-column convention is older than Unicode, so it
> wins?

The 8-column convention is older, alive and well on Unix so it wins on
Unix.

> Well... in that case, there are tab conventions that pre-date Unix, e.g.
> those used by COBOL.

COBOL is not highly relevant in the Unix world.

> But wait... before there was COBOL, there were *typewriters*.

Typewriters and teletypes are indeed behind the original intended
(pre-Unix) semantics of things like BS, HT, CR and LF. However, they
acquired modified meanings in Unix. For example, CR on input is
converted to an LF, and LF on output is converted to a CRLF.

> So there you go. Unix was 50+ years late to the game.

Unix is normative for Unix.

I seem to recall, though, that the same 8-column interpretation was
there with CP/M and MS-DOS. The practice must be older:

   In practice, settable tab stops were rather quickly replaced with
   fixed tab stops, de facto standardized at every multiple of 8
   characters horizontally, and every 6 lines vertically (typically one
   inch vertically). A printing program could easily send the necessary
   spaces or line feeds to move to any position wanted on a form, and
   this was far more reliable than the modal and non-standard methods of
   setting tab stops. Tab characters simply became a form of data
   compression.

   <URL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_key>


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Mar 20 15:01:26 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 06:01:26 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoXxZt=TmLh7vjAkJMDR8d0dj6wc=2E5WBYipbEPXSm8A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 4:39 AM, Steve D'Aprano
<steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> And yet I'm forever being told by my Linux sys admin work mates "don't use
> tabs, because they break everything". For another example, see JMZ's essay
> (its already been linked to twice in this thread, look it up).
>
> We've had a similar attitude right here from Marko, who insists that
> anything except 8-column tabs is the Devil's Work. (Or something like
> that -- to be perfectly honest, I'm not really sure I understand *what*
> Marko's objection is.)
>
> So okay, if tabs work fine with Unix tools, why do so many Unix people avoid
> tabs as if they were radioactive plague?

Can you ask your workmates to elaborate? I'd love to hear.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Mar 20 15:04:12 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 06:04:12 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <PCVzA.361516$3a3.136977@fx43.am4>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1489878995.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <8760j6jgva.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPjBxg_v=1sQra4smhKgQJy1KtMhB5JtEJsKK+pWk+8Jc1OVRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.30.1489881711.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <u9ydncyx3sWDY1PFnZ2dnUU7-afNnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <e7a2160a-33be-4afe-8848-96f4e635d19a@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnocu1nc.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <921339c5-a64f-d4b5-c64a-947b47e3afe5@lucidity.plus.com>
 <mailman.57.1489964670.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <PCVzA.361516$3a3.136977@fx43.am4>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmriNxUmTzfQcnt3fMVGTAer=JV2GLy+8C+LohRzmmMhzQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 5:57 AM, alister <alister.ware at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> I have just tested this with geany & it works a charm,
>
> personally I prefer tabs for setting my indent levels, it feels more
> logical & breaks nothing if the font or tab size is changed but votes
> have been counted & the jury has returned a verdict
>
> Spaces are the preferred option, but you are still able to make your own
> choice.

I'm so glad the world isn't a democracy. "The votes have been counted"
means nothing. :)

ChrisA


From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Mon Mar 20 17:19:02 2017
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 21:19:02 GMT
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1489878995.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <8760j6jgva.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPjBxg_v=1sQra4smhKgQJy1KtMhB5JtEJsKK+pWk+8Jc1OVRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.30.1489881711.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <u9ydncyx3sWDY1PFnZ2dnUU7-afNnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <e7a2160a-33be-4afe-8848-96f4e635d19a@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnocu1nc.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <921339c5-a64f-d4b5-c64a-947b47e3afe5@lucidity.plus.com>
 <mailman.57.1489964670.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <PCVzA.361516$3a3.136977@fx43.am4>
 <CAPTjJmriNxUmTzfQcnt3fMVGTAer=JV2GLy+8C+LohRzmmMhzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.89.1490036660.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aHXzA.304341$0k4.83823@fx37.am4>

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 06:04:12 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 5:57 AM, alister <alister.ware at ntlworld.com>
> wrote:
>> I have just tested this with geany & it works a charm,
>>
>> personally I prefer tabs for setting my indent levels, it feels more
>> logical & breaks nothing if the font or tab size is changed but votes
>> have been counted & the jury has returned a verdict
>>
>> Spaces are the preferred option, but you are still able to make your
>> own choice.
> 
> I'm so glad the world isn't a democracy. "The votes have been counted"
> means nothing. :)
> 
> ChrisA

you know as well as Id that I meant this discussion was had many years 
ago & the decision was made.

to be honest I don't know whether it was by a consensus of the community 
or simply Guido tossing a coin. either way does not matter it is not 
something that is going to change now.

fortunately both tabs & spaces are still supported so individual 
programmes can still make their own decisions, the only time it makes any 
difference is when working on a collaboration with other programmers when 
style guides have to be agreed.

if I was to say only a Nazi world try to enforce one or the other at this 
stage in the languages evolution can we call Godwin's on this un-
Productive debate ;-)



-- 
Remembering is for those who have forgotten.
		-- Chinese proverb


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Mar 20 17:32:12 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 08:32:12 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <aHXzA.304341$0k4.83823@fx37.am4>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1489878995.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <8760j6jgva.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPjBxg_v=1sQra4smhKgQJy1KtMhB5JtEJsKK+pWk+8Jc1OVRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.30.1489881711.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <u9ydncyx3sWDY1PFnZ2dnUU7-afNnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <e7a2160a-33be-4afe-8848-96f4e635d19a@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnocu1nc.664.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <921339c5-a64f-d4b5-c64a-947b47e3afe5@lucidity.plus.com>
 <mailman.57.1489964670.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <PCVzA.361516$3a3.136977@fx43.am4>
 <CAPTjJmriNxUmTzfQcnt3fMVGTAer=JV2GLy+8C+LohRzmmMhzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.89.1490036660.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <aHXzA.304341$0k4.83823@fx37.am4>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrJmLZNPphwwMjnrUq4ZB3hOgLPYCOYAF+Y2_L3q0jFRQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 8:19 AM, alister <alister.ware at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 06:04:12 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 5:57 AM, alister <alister.ware at ntlworld.com>
>> wrote:
>>> I have just tested this with geany & it works a charm,
>>>
>>> personally I prefer tabs for setting my indent levels, it feels more
>>> logical & breaks nothing if the font or tab size is changed but votes
>>> have been counted & the jury has returned a verdict
>>>
>>> Spaces are the preferred option, but you are still able to make your
>>> own choice.
>>
>> I'm so glad the world isn't a democracy. "The votes have been counted"
>> means nothing. :)
>>
>> ChrisA
>
> you know as well as Id that I meant this discussion was had many years
> ago & the decision was made.
>
> to be honest I don't know whether it was by a consensus of the community
> or simply Guido tossing a coin. either way does not matter it is not
> something that is going to change now.
>
> fortunately both tabs & spaces are still supported so individual
> programmes can still make their own decisions, the only time it makes any
> difference is when working on a collaboration with other programmers when
> style guides have to be agreed.

See, that's the thing. PEP 7 and PEP 8 govern the source code for the
Python language itself, and there is no requirement to follow their
recommendations in other projects. If you choose to adopt PEP 8 as the
basis of your style guide, you should still make your own decisions on
the points where the specific recommendations are less important than
internal consistency - and tabs vs spaces is definitely one of them.
The decision has NOT been made for the entire Python community.

And even the decision governing the standard library was not on the
basis of a vote. It was the basis of a considered decision by the
person responsible. Like I said, the world - and Python - is not a
democracy. :)

ChrisA


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Mar 20 18:08:24 2017
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 11:08:24 +1300
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <58cfe51d$0$1622$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ej8ck8F8o0vU1@mid.individual.net> <87wpbkhoe2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58cf1a5d$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <878to0h1o0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpMbejgHxUg7CzQNLe1swdYnDQaNmEPs8N_b=nQQ8tj+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1489994351.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <874lyoh00a.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpexRYZTuhXzNCj9Xk_gc5R2K0GPTn2aLj4UjomAf4BWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.70.1489997723.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <87r31sz2yq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmoSgXyGW2=mCSt9EiR-6TRJ_+kTmSdfbBM7bod+MM_8OA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.71.1490004931.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <87mvcgyt1c.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58cfe51d$0$1622$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <ejb26rFp2d8U1@mid.individual.net>

Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> But wait... before there was COBOL, there were *typewriters*. Its been many
> years since I've had my hands on a manual typewriter, but if I remember
> correctly the standard default tab setting was 1 inch.

I haven't used many manual typewriters, but on the ones I have
used, there were no "standard" tab stops -- you configured them
yourself, wherever you wanted.

-- 
Greg


From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Mon Mar 20 22:18:42 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 03:18:42 +0100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <oaorp7$tb6$1@dont-email.me>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ej8ck8F8o0vU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87wpbkhoe2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58cf1a5d$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <878to0h1o0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpMbejgHxUg7CzQNLe1swdYnDQaNmEPs8N_b=nQQ8tj+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1489994351.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <874lyoh00a.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpexRYZTuhXzNCj9Xk_gc5R2K0GPTn2aLj4UjomAf4BWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.70.1489997723.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <oaoohf$htp$1@dont-email.me>
 <CAPTjJmrE_kLRu_cp93+R3WKBAegy0XWLkn9KZQkfiFa-pTSxXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.78.1490020351.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <oaorp7$tb6$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRAJLBHr_5Qr=YgU+crHwxz=xi4UdV3dDp0FvdQzRfhknA@mail.gmail.com>

On 20 March 2017 at 16:19, BartC <bc at freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 20/03/2017 14:32, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 1:24 AM, BartC <bc at freeuk.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> But it would be better IMO if tabs were used, with some scheme for
>>> suggesting the tab width (or set of tab stops) that is recommended (eg. a
>>> comment at the top).
>>
>>
>> If you absolutely have to, then sure, put a directive in some
>> machine-readable way at the top or bottom of the file. It's like the
>> coding cookie that Python follows - some editors also respect it. But
>> I would prefer to just use tabs *without* suggesting a width, because
>> each one represents *one indent*. Not a number of spaces. One
>> indentation level.
>
>
> For leading tabs at the start of a new statement that wouldn't be a problem.
> Changing the tab width shown just spreads out statements more, or less,
> horizontally.
>
> It works - there is no jarring misalignment - because each tab corresponds
> to the same N spaces, whatever N happens to be.
>
> But tabs are also used after statements, before comments for example, or to
> line up elements in tables. Then it doesn't work, because tabs may represent
> 1 to N spaces:
>
> Using N=4, with 1 tab before each number:
>
>     (one,   1),         #comment 1
>     (two,   2),         #comment 2
>     (three, 3),         #comment 3
> ...

Well, the definition of tabwidth in file could help only in theory,
As already said, one cannot define a tab as N charaters,
since character size is not a constant.
Don't assume that one uses monospaced
editor. For screen, generally, the units are pixels.
(warning: thinking too much about it can be brain-damaging)

Reasonable solution is just to be patient and wait
before IDEs can render tables inside a document depending
on the context. This would mean exactly 1 tab as separator.
Before that I'd say just don't worry much if
your layout will look not so nice, and not be so fanatic
with inserting multi-column content into the source code.

Tab-separated tables is actually what I use on a daily
basis, e.g copy-pasting from Excell to TXT file back
and forth, and my scripts parse tables usually as tab-separated
txt file.

And I'd say again, don't spam multiple spaces anywhere, it will be harder
to pluck them out for the collegues (and probably for the
document creator in the future).
My rule of thumb: if I see multiple spaces in any document,
something is probably wrong (except ASCII art:))).

So if one'd ask, this would be roughly my styleguide.


Mikhail


From kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 02:29:04 2017
From: kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com (Kev Dwyer)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 06:29:04 +0000
Subject: cross python version randomness
References: <5e23aa27-a14f-0be6-d5f9-7d780b01a01b@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <oaqh7b$lck$1@blaine.gmane.org>

Robin Becker wrote:

> Is there a way to get the same sequences of random numbers in python 2.7
> and python >= 3.3?
> 
> I notice that this simple script produces different values in python 2.7
> and >=3.3
> 
> C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>cat s.py
> import sys, random
> print(sys.version)
> random.seed(103)
> for i in range(5):
>      print(i, random.randint(10,25))
> 
> C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>\python27\python s.py
> 2.7.13 (v2.7.13:a06454b1afa1, Dec 17 2016, 20:53:40) [MSC v.1500 64 bit
> (AMD64)] 0 25
> 1 17
> 2 21
> 3 21
> 4 13
> 
> C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>\python33\python s.py
> 3.3.5 (v3.3.5:62cf4e77f785, Mar  9 2014, 10:35:05) [MSC v.1600 64 bit
> (AMD64)] 0 24
> 1 16
> 2 12
> 3 13
> 4 22
> 
> However, when I use random.random() all seems to be the same so this
> script C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>cat u.py
> import sys, random
> print(sys.version)
> random.seed(103)
> for i in range(5):
>      print(i, random.random())
> 
> seems to be fine
> 
> 
> C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>\python27\python u.py
> 2.7.13 (v2.7.13:a06454b1afa1, Dec 17 2016, 20:53:40) [MSC v.1500 64 bit
> (AMD64)] (0, 0.9790501200727744)
> (1, 0.45629827629184827)
> (2, 0.7188470341002364)
> (3, 0.7348862425853395)
> (4, 0.21490166849706338)
> 
> C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>\python33\python u.py
> 3.3.5 (v3.3.5:62cf4e77f785, Mar  9 2014, 10:35:05) [MSC v.1600 64 bit
> (AMD64)] 0 0.9790501200727744
> 1 0.45629827629184827
> 2 0.7188470341002364
> 3 0.7348862425853395
> 4 0.21490166849706338
> 
> presumably randint is doing something different to get its values.


The docs [https://docs.python.org/3/library/random.html#random.randrange] 
for randrange have this note:

Changed in version 3.2: randrange() is more sophisticated about producing 
equally distributed values. Formerly it used a style like int(random()*n) 
which could produce slightly uneven distributions.

Maybe that's the explanation?  Unfortunately I don't have an install of 
3.0/1 to test against.



From deavmi at disroot.org  Tue Mar 21 03:27:51 2017
From: deavmi at disroot.org (Tristan B. Kildaire)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 09:27:51 +0200
Subject: Python.NET question?
Message-ID: <oaqlfi$7ei$1@dont-email.me>

Is Python.NET a version of Python that compiles Python source code to 
Microsoft's IR for running by a MS runtime?


From deavmi at disroot.org  Tue Mar 21 03:39:40 2017
From: deavmi at disroot.org (Tristan B. Kildaire)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 09:39:40 +0200
Subject: Python.NET question?
Message-ID: <oaqllr$6mk$5@dont-email.me>

Is Python.NET a version of Python that compiles Python source code to 
Microsoft's IR for running by a MS runtime?


From zondo42 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 04:09:05 2017
From: zondo42 at gmail.com (Glenn Hutchings)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 01:09:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to package my project and make it ready to be installed by
 using pip
In-Reply-To: <mailman.85.1490030435.30671.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAF_EDkv1XHD146dDym=EGXpd8X860p8Vt7+a2654PYrAfw+duw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.76.1490009780.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <73e47f28-7bcc-4319-bdee-0c6d176c041a@googlegroups.com>
 <CAF_EDks23y+Qt9C58WinB8x2pGEKY4zHAUNn7aC3t=5eVjTBFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF_EDkt_-KAbW4U6LOxjRFKHz507rBFeAZ-9pL6S=1Bzi1+5AQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF_EDkurETMzDb2DnGLY5vxAQabF1AAObBnAfaiMijmpxQuWFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.85.1490030435.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <202dedd1-3673-47b1-a3d5-163484be1840@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, 20 March 2017 17:21:04 UTC, Daiyue Weng  wrote:
> If I tried
> 
> pip3 install git+https://user_name at bitbucket.org/user_name/project_name.git
> 
> the package would get installed, but there are no python files that have
> been installed in /usr/local/lib/python3.5/dist-packages/project_name
> 
> Hence I couldn't import any class in the package in python.
> 
> I am wondering how to fix this.

Where are the files that did get installed?  It's possible they were put somewhere you're not expecting.  (Not, I hope, in a folder called 'project_name.git' -- that would be rather unhelpful!)


From ivo.bellinsalarin at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 05:07:44 2017
From: ivo.bellinsalarin at gmail.com (Ivo Bellin Salarin)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 09:07:44 +0000
Subject: Python.NET question?
In-Reply-To: <oaqllr$6mk$5@dont-email.me>
References: <oaqllr$6mk$5@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPc4eF_Hyk4ZgUR+YyoPfxvxYuoYcCNa2LnBHX_6UuVPLSzjTg@mail.gmail.com>

IronPython?

Le mar. 21 mars 2017 08:52, Tristan B. Kildaire <deavmi at disroot.org> a
?crit :

> Is Python.NET a version of Python that compiles Python source code to
> Microsoft's IR for running by a MS runtime?
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From robin at reportlab.com  Tue Mar 21 05:30:55 2017
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 09:30:55 +0000
Subject: cross python version randomness
In-Reply-To: <oaqh7b$lck$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <5e23aa27-a14f-0be6-d5f9-7d780b01a01b@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <oaqh7b$lck$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <54913e52-f34e-fc81-8a29-e1918d0ba111@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

..........
>>
>> presumably randint is doing something different to get its values.
>
>
> The docs [https://docs.python.org/3/library/random.html#random.randrange]
> for randrange have this note:
>
> Changed in version 3.2: randrange() is more sophisticated about producing
> equally distributed values. Formerly it used a style like int(random()*n)
> which could produce slightly uneven distributions.
>
> Maybe that's the explanation?  Unfortunately I don't have an install of
> 3.0/1 to test against.
>

Looking in random.py it sesms to be true. Pity no backwards compatibility mode. 
I don't actually care about the quality of the ints produced, but I do care 
about reproducibility, luckily I think it's feasible to monkey patch the 2.7 
method back in.
-- 
Robin Becker



From deavmi at disroot.org  Tue Mar 21 05:39:40 2017
From: deavmi at disroot.org (Tristan B. Kildaire)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 11:39:40 +0200
Subject: Python.NET question?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.94.1490087276.30671.python-list@python.org>
References: <oaqllr$6mk$5@dont-email.me>
 <CAPc4eF_Hyk4ZgUR+YyoPfxvxYuoYcCNa2LnBHX_6UuVPLSzjTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.94.1490087276.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oaqs7a$tat$1@dont-email.me>

On 2017/03/21 11:07 AM, Ivo Bellin Salarin wrote:
> IronPython?
>
> Le mar. 21 mars 2017 08:52, Tristan B. Kildaire <deavmi at disroot.org> a
> ?crit :
>
>> Is Python.NET a version of Python that compiles Python source code to
>> Microsoft's IR for running by a MS runtime?
>> --
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
I heard of Python.NET. ANyway, what is IronPython (is that the one that 
runs on an MS runtime?). The name is something I remember.


I know JPython compiles to Java's IR (Bytecode) and therefore runs on 
the JVM runtime.


From pavol.lisy at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 05:43:46 2017
From: pavol.lisy at gmail.com (Pavol Lisy)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 10:43:46 +0100
Subject: cross python version randomness
In-Reply-To: <oaqh7b$lck$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <5e23aa27-a14f-0be6-d5f9-7d780b01a01b@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <oaqh7b$lck$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CABDEq2mfa6+0TDMmjJeToSsnuOVrqPPdqH8Hjp_T5=XOajPnpw@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/21/17, Kev Dwyer <kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com> wrote:
> Robin Becker wrote:
>
>> Is there a way to get the same sequences of random numbers in python 2.7
>> and python >= 3.3?
>>
>> I notice that this simple script produces different values in python 2.7
>> and >=3.3
>>
>> C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>cat s.py
>> import sys, random
>> print(sys.version)
>> random.seed(103)
>> for i in range(5):
>>      print(i, random.randint(10,25))
>>
>> C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>\python27\python s.py
>> 2.7.13 (v2.7.13:a06454b1afa1, Dec 17 2016, 20:53:40) [MSC v.1500 64 bit
>> (AMD64)] 0 25
>> 1 17
>> 2 21
>> 3 21
>> 4 13
>>
>> C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>\python33\python s.py
>> 3.3.5 (v3.3.5:62cf4e77f785, Mar  9 2014, 10:35:05) [MSC v.1600 64 bit
>> (AMD64)] 0 24
>> 1 16
>> 2 12
>> 3 13
>> 4 22
>>
>> However, when I use random.random() all seems to be the same so this
>> script C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>cat u.py
>> import sys, random
>> print(sys.version)
>> random.seed(103)
>> for i in range(5):
>>      print(i, random.random())
>>
>> seems to be fine
>>
>>
>> C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>\python27\python u.py
>> 2.7.13 (v2.7.13:a06454b1afa1, Dec 17 2016, 20:53:40) [MSC v.1500 64 bit
>> (AMD64)] (0, 0.9790501200727744)
>> (1, 0.45629827629184827)
>> (2, 0.7188470341002364)
>> (3, 0.7348862425853395)
>> (4, 0.21490166849706338)
>>
>> C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>\python33\python u.py
>> 3.3.5 (v3.3.5:62cf4e77f785, Mar  9 2014, 10:35:05) [MSC v.1600 64 bit
>> (AMD64)] 0 0.9790501200727744
>> 1 0.45629827629184827
>> 2 0.7188470341002364
>> 3 0.7348862425853395
>> 4 0.21490166849706338
>>
>> presumably randint is doing something different to get its values.
>
>
> The docs [https://docs.python.org/3/library/random.html#random.randrange]
> for randrange have this note:
>
> Changed in version 3.2: randrange() is more sophisticated about producing
> equally distributed values. Formerly it used a style like int(random()*n)
> which could produce slightly uneven distributions.
>
> Maybe that's the explanation?  Unfortunately I don't have an install of
> 3.0/1 to test against.
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

This is inspiring Robin! :)

import sys, random
print(sys.version)

def randint(a, b):
    return int(random.random()*(b-a+1))+a

random.seed(103)
for i in range(5):
    print(i, randint(10,25))
3.6.0 |Anaconda custom (64-bit)| (default, Dec 23 2016, 12:22:00)
[GCC 4.4.7 20120313 (Red Hat 4.4.7-1)]
0 25
1 17
2 21
3 21
4 13

Output seems to be same as in your 2.7 version :)

So if you are sure that sequences of random.random are same then you
could use it.

You could also save a sequence to file and use it repeatedly. (if it
is not performance problem for you)

PL.


From odt at dtrx.de  Tue Mar 21 05:46:17 2017
From: odt at dtrx.de (Olaf Dietrich)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 09:46:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: numpy indexing performance
References: <oabii2$2uh$1@news.informatik.tu-muenchen.de>
Message-ID: <oaqsp9$3br$1@news.informatik.tu-muenchen.de>

Olaf Dietrich <odt at dtrx.de>:
> This is a simplified example of a Monte Carlo
> simulation where random vectors (here 2D vectors,
> which are all zero) are summed (the result is in
> r1 and r2 or r, respectively):
> 
> def case1():
>     import numpy as np
>     M = 100000
>     N = 10000
>     r1 = np.zeros(M)
>     r2 = np.zeros(M)
>     s1 = np.zeros(N)
>     s2 = np.zeros(N)
>     for n in range(1000):
>         ind = np.random.random_integers(N, size=M) - 1
>         r1 += s1[ind]
>         r2 += s2[ind]
> 
> def case2():
>     import numpy as np
>     M = 100000
>     N = 10000
>     r = np.zeros((M, 2))
>     s = np.zeros((N, 2))
>     for n in range(1000): 
>         ind = np.random.random_integers(N, size=M) - 1
>         r += s[ind]
> 
> import timeit
> 
> print("case1:", timeit.timeit(
>     "case1()", setup="from __main__ import case1", number=1))
> print("case2:", timeit.timeit(
>     "case2()", setup="from __main__ import case2", number=1))
> 
> 
> Resulting in:
> 
> case1: 2.6224704339983873
> case2: 4.374910838028882

I should add that I tried this with Python 3.4.2 and with
Python 2.7.0 (on linux, x64), NumPy version 1.8.2; the
performance differences were the same with both Python
interpreters.


> Why is case2 significantly slower (almost by a
> factor of 2) than case1? There should be the same number
> of operations (additions) in both cases; the main
> difference is the indexing.
> 
> Is there another (faster) way to avoid the separate
> component arrays r1 and r2? (I also tried
> r = np.zeros(M, dtype='2d'), which was comparable
> to case2.)


Olaf


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Tue Mar 21 07:46:50 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 22:46:50 +1100
Subject: Python.NET question?
References: <oaqllr$6mk$5@dont-email.me>
 <CAPc4eF_Hyk4ZgUR+YyoPfxvxYuoYcCNa2LnBHX_6UuVPLSzjTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.94.1490087276.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <oaqs7a$tat$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <58d112ac$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 08:39 pm, Tristan B. Kildaire wrote:

> On 2017/03/21 11:07 AM, Ivo Bellin Salarin wrote:
>> IronPython?
>>
>> Le mar. 21 mars 2017 08:52, Tristan B. Kildaire <deavmi at disroot.org> a
>> ?crit :
>>
>>> Is Python.NET a version of Python that compiles Python source code to
>>> Microsoft's IR for running by a MS runtime?
>>> --
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>
> I heard of Python.NET. ANyway, what is IronPython (is that the one that
> runs on an MS runtime?). The name is something I remember.


I'm not sure if Python.NET is a new name for "Python for .NET", or a
completely different project. Do you have a URL for it?

Python for .NET brings the regular CPython interpreter to the .NET and Mono
environments.

IronPython is a reimplementation of Python, written in C# as managed code
for .Net, running on the CLR virtual machine. It doesn't use a GIL, and is
sometimes considered a little faster than CPython.

IronPython:
    http://ironpython.net/
 
Python for .Net:
    https://github.com/pythonnet/pythonnet
    http://pythonnet.github.io/
    https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pythonnet




-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From steve+python at pearwood.info  Tue Mar 21 07:51:03 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 22:51:03 +1100
Subject: cross python version randomness
References: <5e23aa27-a14f-0be6-d5f9-7d780b01a01b@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <oaqh7b$lck$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <54913e52-f34e-fc81-8a29-e1918d0ba111@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <mailman.95.1490088671.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58d113a9$0$1621$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 08:30 pm, Robin Becker wrote:

> Looking in random.py it sesms to be true. Pity no backwards compatibility
> mode. I don't actually care about the quality of the ints produced, but I
> do care about reproducibility, luckily I think it's feasible to monkey
> patch the 2.7 method back in.

A few years ago I came across that, and raised it on the bug tracker. The
core devs decided that the backwards compatibility promise only applies to
the output of random.random() itself, not the assorted other methods.

If you care about the specific sequence of pseudo-random numbers generated
by a particular method across versions, you have to use your own
implementation. You can trust that random.random()'s output alone will be
reproducible, anything more than that you have to manage yourself.




-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From robin at reportlab.com  Tue Mar 21 08:03:18 2017
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 12:03:18 +0000
Subject: cross python version randomness
In-Reply-To: <CABDEq2mfa6+0TDMmjJeToSsnuOVrqPPdqH8Hjp_T5=XOajPnpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5e23aa27-a14f-0be6-d5f9-7d780b01a01b@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <oaqh7b$lck$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CABDEq2mfa6+0TDMmjJeToSsnuOVrqPPdqH8Hjp_T5=XOajPnpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f07ff703-88cd-2d30-d692-8dc5d67d3ec4@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

On 21/03/2017 09:43, Pavol Lisy wrote:
> On 3/21/17, Kev Dwyer <kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Robin Becker wrote:
>>
>>> Is there a way to get the same sequences of random numbers in python 2.7
>>> and python >= 3.3?
>>>
>>> I notice that this simple script produces different values in python 2.7
>>> and >=3.3
>>>
>>> C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>cat s.py
>>> import sys, random
>>> print(sys.version)
>>> random.seed(103)
>>> for i in range(5):
>>>      print(i, random.randint(10,25))
>>>
>>> C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>\python27\python s.py
>>> 2.7.13 (v2.7.13:a06454b1afa1, Dec 17 2016, 20:53:40) [MSC v.1500 64 bit
>>> (AMD64)] 0 25
>>> 1 17
>>> 2 21
>>> 3 21
>>> 4 13
>............
>
> This is inspiring Robin! :)
>
> import sys, random
> print(sys.version)
>
> def randint(a, b):
>     return int(random.random()*(b-a+1))+a
>
> random.seed(103)
> for i in range(5):
>     print(i, randint(10,25))
> 3.6.0 |Anaconda custom (64-bit)| (default, Dec 23 2016, 12:22:00)
> [GCC 4.4.7 20120313 (Red Hat 4.4.7-1)]
> 0 25
> 1 17
> 2 21
> 3 21
> 4 13
>
> Output seems to be same as in your 2.7 version :)
>
> So if you are sure that sequences of random.random are same then you
> could use it.
>
> You could also save a sequence to file and use it repeatedly. (if it
> is not performance problem for you)
>
> PL.
>
I'm not as inspired as you; for the present I have chickened out and just 
modified the 2.7 randrange method to monkeypatch the 3.x random.Random class. It 
seems to be ok and allows all the test code to use random.randint, but for small 
widths I think your function is correct.
-- 
Robin Becker



From daiyueweng at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 08:34:25 2017
From: daiyueweng at gmail.com (Daiyue Weng)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 12:34:25 +0000
Subject: How to package my project and make it ready to be installed by
 using pip
In-Reply-To: <202dedd1-3673-47b1-a3d5-163484be1840@googlegroups.com>
References: <CAF_EDkv1XHD146dDym=EGXpd8X860p8Vt7+a2654PYrAfw+duw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.76.1490009780.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <73e47f28-7bcc-4319-bdee-0c6d176c041a@googlegroups.com>
 <CAF_EDks23y+Qt9C58WinB8x2pGEKY4zHAUNn7aC3t=5eVjTBFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF_EDkt_-KAbW4U6LOxjRFKHz507rBFeAZ-9pL6S=1Bzi1+5AQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF_EDkurETMzDb2DnGLY5vxAQabF1AAObBnAfaiMijmpxQuWFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.85.1490030435.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <202dedd1-3673-47b1-a3d5-163484be1840@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAF_EDkt+EN9RDmRZAjwO0GRgfgkE-WdFL_KoJxMKVeQpX3=Pmw@mail.gmail.com>

the problem has been solved, as I forgot to define

py_modules=[...]

for a few python files needed to be installed.

cheers

On 21 March 2017 at 08:09, Glenn Hutchings <zondo42 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, 20 March 2017 17:21:04 UTC, Daiyue Weng  wrote:
> > If I tried
> >
> > pip3 install git+https://user_name at bitbucket.org/user_name/
> project_name.git
> >
> > the package would get installed, but there are no python files that have
> > been installed in /usr/local/lib/python3.5/dist-packages/project_name
> >
> > Hence I couldn't import any class in the package in python.
> >
> > I am wondering how to fix this.
>
> Where are the files that did get installed?  It's possible they were put
> somewhere you're not expecting.  (Not, I hope, in a folder called
> 'project_name.git' -- that would be rather unhelpful!)
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From deavmi at disroot.org  Tue Mar 21 08:57:41 2017
From: deavmi at disroot.org (Tristan B. Kildaire)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 14:57:41 +0200
Subject: Python.NET question?
In-Reply-To: <58d112ac$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <oaqllr$6mk$5@dont-email.me>
 <CAPc4eF_Hyk4ZgUR+YyoPfxvxYuoYcCNa2LnBHX_6UuVPLSzjTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.94.1490087276.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <oaqs7a$tat$1@dont-email.me>
 <58d112ac$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <oar7qk$550$1@dont-email.me>

On 2017/03/21 1:46 PM, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 08:39 pm, Tristan B. Kildaire wrote:
>
>> On 2017/03/21 11:07 AM, Ivo Bellin Salarin wrote:
>>> IronPython?
>>>
>>> Le mar. 21 mars 2017 08:52, Tristan B. Kildaire <deavmi at disroot.org> a
>>> ?crit :
>>>
>>>> Is Python.NET a version of Python that compiles Python source code to
>>>> Microsoft's IR for running by a MS runtime?
>>>> --
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>>
>> I heard of Python.NET. ANyway, what is IronPython (is that the one that
>> runs on an MS runtime?). The name is something I remember.
>
>
> I'm not sure if Python.NET is a new name for "Python for .NET", or a
> completely different project. Do you have a URL for it?
>
> Python for .NET brings the regular CPython interpreter to the .NET and Mono
> environments.
>
> IronPython is a reimplementation of Python, written in C# as managed code
> for .Net, running on the CLR virtual machine. It doesn't use a GIL, and is
> sometimes considered a little faster than CPython.
>
> IronPython:
>     http://ironpython.net/
>
> Python for .Net:
>     https://github.com/pythonnet/pythonnet
>     http://pythonnet.github.io/
>     https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pythonnet
>
>
>
>
Ah. It was IronPython then. Thanks.


From best_lay at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 21 09:16:43 2017
From: best_lay at yahoo.com (Wildman)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 08:16:43 -0500
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmoXxZt=TmLh7vjAkJMDR8d0dj6wc=2E5WBYipbEPXSm8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.88.1490036490.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0ridndb9eIgmukzFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@giganews.com>

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 06:01:26 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 4:39 AM, Steve D'Aprano
> <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> And yet I'm forever being told by my Linux sys admin work mates "don't use
>> tabs, because they break everything". For another example, see JMZ's essay
>> (its already been linked to twice in this thread, look it up).
>>
>> We've had a similar attitude right here from Marko, who insists that
>> anything except 8-column tabs is the Devil's Work. (Or something like
>> that -- to be perfectly honest, I'm not really sure I understand *what*
>> Marko's objection is.)
>>
>> So okay, if tabs work fine with Unix tools, why do so many Unix people avoid
>> tabs as if they were radioactive plague?
> 
> Can you ask your workmates to elaborate? I'd love to hear.
> 
> ChrisA

I would love to hear also.  I've been using Linux for about
10 years and I have never had anything "break" because of a
tab.  Sounds like a case of Chicken Little to me.

-- 
<Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453
The cow died so I don't need your bull!


From zizwan93 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 09:27:33 2017
From: zizwan93 at gmail.com (Zizwan)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 06:27:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Exporting Tensorflow inceptionv3 graph for weight and bias extraction
Message-ID: <9596de87-642f-4a9f-ac4f-9f7dbe5b60da@googlegroups.com>

Anyone can help me with this?


From marko at pacujo.net  Tue Mar 21 09:42:01 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 15:42:01 +0200
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmoXxZt=TmLh7vjAkJMDR8d0dj6wc=2E5WBYipbEPXSm8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.88.1490036490.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <0ridndb9eIgmukzFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <871stqzqza.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Wildman <best_lay at yahoo.com>:

> On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 06:01:26 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> Can you ask your workmates to elaborate? I'd love to hear.
>
> I would love to hear also. I've been using Linux for about 10 years
> and I have never had anything "break" because of a tab. Sounds like a
> case of Chicken Little to me.

Example:

    - Start emacs with the default settings.

    - Edit buffer "abc": C-x C-b abc

    - Start drawing: M-x picture-mode

    - Draw this box starting from the top left corner and circling
      clockwise:

                +------------------+
		|		   |
		|		   |
     		+------------------+

    - Move the cursor to the beginning of the first line of the box.
      Try to move the box to the left by three columns:

          C-SPC C-n C-n C-n C-f C-f C-f C-x r k

      What you get is:

             +------------------+
		|		   |
		|		   |
  		+------------------+

      because only the first line was indented with spaces. Emacs uses
      when opening the other lines.

If you disable tabs (or untabify), you get the intended result:

             +------------------+
             |                  |
             |                  |
             +------------------+

This is only an example. Analogous annoyances crop up in all kinds of
editing.


Marko


From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 10:15:14 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 15:15:14 +0100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <871stqzqza.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmoXxZt=TmLh7vjAkJMDR8d0dj6wc=2E5WBYipbEPXSm8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.88.1490036490.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <0ridndb9eIgmukzFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@giganews.com>
 <871stqzqza.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRBLg6Z+qfDHVt3b+Hd1W6U+dXNCgsTX0dcYjTbj+MX5wQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 21 March 2017 at 14:42, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Wildman <best_lay at yahoo.com>:
>
>> On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 06:01:26 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> Can you ask your workmates to elaborate? I'd love to hear.
>>
>> I would love to hear also. I've been using Linux for about 10 years
>> and I have never had anything "break" because of a tab. Sounds like a
>> case of Chicken Little to me.
>
> Example:
>
>     - Start emacs with the default settings.
>
>     - Edit buffer "abc": C-x C-b abc
>
>     - Start drawing: M-x picture-mode
>
>     - Draw this box starting from the top left corner and circling
>       clockwise:
>
>                 +------------------+
>                 |                  |
>                 |                  |
>                 +------------------+
>

Didn't want to say this, but you know it was quite predictable from
the beginning that
the arguments will end up somewhere in "linux console is the center of the
universe, e-macs is mother of all apps and monospaced text is peak of
human evolution".

I don't know how to help, probably if there is an important document
which you want different people to read, just make plain
txt, or HTML table, Office document, PNG image, etc.
Or just use spaces if it is for ASCII-art purposes.

And on linux console, by default one does not even have good
possibilities for text-mode pseudographics, it was more relevant
in DOS where one had rich possibilities and programmable
binary fonts.

Mikhail


From marko at pacujo.net  Tue Mar 21 10:38:32 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 16:38:32 +0200
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAE6NSRBLg6Z+qfDHVt3b+Hd1W6U+dXNCgsTX0dcYjTbj+MX5wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 (Mikhail V.'s message of "Tue, 21 Mar 2017 15:15:14 +0100")
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmoXxZt=TmLh7vjAkJMDR8d0dj6wc=2E5WBYipbEPXSm8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.88.1490036490.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <0ridndb9eIgmukzFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@giganews.com>
 <871stqzqza.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAE6NSRBLg6Z+qfDHVt3b+Hd1W6U+dXNCgsTX0dcYjTbj+MX5wQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87wpbiy9sn.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com>:

> On 21 March 2017 at 14:42, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>>     - Draw this box starting from the top left corner and circling
>>       clockwise:
>>
>>                 +------------------+
>>                 |                  |
>>                 |                  |
>>                 +------------------+
>>
>
> Didn't want to say this, but you know it was quite predictable from
> the beginning that the arguments will end up somewhere in "linux
> console is the center of the universe, e-macs is mother of all apps
> and monospaced text is peak of human evolution".
>
> I don't know how to help, probably if there is an important document
> which you want different people to read, just make plain txt, or HTML
> table, Office document, PNG image, etc. Or just use spaces if it is
> for ASCII-art purposes.
>
> And on linux console, by default one does not even have good
> possibilities for text-mode pseudographics, it was more relevant in
> DOS where one had rich possibilities and programmable binary fonts.

Here's what I have studied today (HTTP/2):

     +-----------------------------------------------+
     |                 Length (24)                   |
     +---------------+---------------+---------------+
     |   Type (8)    |   Flags (8)   |
     +-+-------------+---------------+-------------------------------+
     |R|                 Stream Identifier (31)                      |
     +=+=============================================================+
     |                   Frame Payload (0...)                      ...
     +---------------------------------------------------------------+


   [...]


                                +--------+
                        send PP |        | recv PP
                       ,--------|  idle  |--------.
                      /         |        |         \
                     v          +--------+          v
              +----------+          |           +----------+
              |          |          | send H /  |          |
       ,------| reserved |          | recv H    | reserved |------.
       |      | (local)  |          |           | (remote) |      |
       |      +----------+          v           +----------+      |
       |          |             +--------+             |          |
       |          |     recv ES |        | send ES     |          |
       |   send H |     ,-------|  open  |-------.     | recv H   |
       |          |    /        |        |        \    |          |
       |          v   v         +--------+         v   v          |
       |      +----------+          |           +----------+      |
       |      |   half   |          |           |   half   |      |
       |      |  closed  |          | send R /  |  closed  |      |
       |      | (remote) |          | recv R    | (local)  |      |
       |      +----------+          |           +----------+      |
       |           |                |                 |           |
       |           | send ES /      |       recv ES / |           |
       |           | send R /       v        send R / |           |
       |           | recv R     +--------+   recv R   |           |
       | send R /  `----------->|        |<-----------'  send R / |
       | recv R                 | closed |               recv R   |
       `----------------------->|        |<----------------------'
                                +--------+

   <URL: http://httpwg.org/specs/rfc7540.html>

State of the art. Thankfully, the editor of the RFC chose not to use
tabs.


Marko


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 10:47:31 2017
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 14:47:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmoXxZt=TmLh7vjAkJMDR8d0dj6wc=2E5WBYipbEPXSm8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.88.1490036490.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <0ridndb9eIgmukzFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <oaree2$iub$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 2017-03-21, Wildman via Python-list <python-list at python.org> wrote:

> I would love to hear also.  I've been using Linux for about
> 10 years and I have never had anything "break" because of a
> tab.  Sounds like a case of Chicken Little to me.

The main problem is that when you display/print a program that uses
tabs on something that expands them to every 8-columns, you often end
up with much of the code so far to the right you can't see much of it.

Another problem is that people will use tabs to do things like line up
comments to the right of code.  That only works if the program
displaying/printing the code has tab widths that match the authors.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I'm having a MID-WEEK
                                  at               CRISIS!
                              gmail.com            



From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 10:49:13 2017
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 14:49:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmoXxZt=TmLh7vjAkJMDR8d0dj6wc=2E5WBYipbEPXSm8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.88.1490036490.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <0ridndb9eIgmukzFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@giganews.com>
 <871stqzqza.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAE6NSRBLg6Z+qfDHVt3b+Hd1W6U+dXNCgsTX0dcYjTbj+MX5wQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oareh9$iub$2@blaine.gmane.org>

On 2017-03-21, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:

> Didn't want to say this, but you know it was quite predictable from
> the beginning that the arguments will end up somewhere in "linux
> console is the center of the universe, e-macs is mother of all apps
> and monospaced text is peak of human evolution".

Well, I'm glad you've finally admitted it. :)

> I don't know how to help, probably if there is an important document
> which you want different people to read, just make plain txt, or
> HTML table, Office document, PNG image, etc.  Or just use spaces if
> it is for ASCII-art purposes.

Well written code _is_ ASCII-art.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Do I have a lifestyle
                                  at               yet?
                              gmail.com            



From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Tue Mar 21 11:01:20 2017
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 17:01:20 +0200
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmoXxZt=TmLh7vjAkJMDR8d0dj6wc=2E5WBYipbEPXSm8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.88.1490036490.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <0ridndb9eIgmukzFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@giganews.com>
 <871stqzqza.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAE6NSRBLg6Z+qfDHVt3b+Hd1W6U+dXNCgsTX0dcYjTbj+MX5wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <oareh9$iub$2@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.102.1490107823.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lf5efxqishr.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Grant Edwards writes:

> Well written code _is_ ASCII-art.

:)


From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 11:04:58 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 16:04:58 +0100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <oareh9$iub$2@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmoXxZt=TmLh7vjAkJMDR8d0dj6wc=2E5WBYipbEPXSm8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.88.1490036490.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <0ridndb9eIgmukzFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@giganews.com>
 <871stqzqza.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAE6NSRBLg6Z+qfDHVt3b+Hd1W6U+dXNCgsTX0dcYjTbj+MX5wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <oareh9$iub$2@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRCVhp716JjYY+ewY4=QsLVBQU8P9mQB=i0uP2Wr8O1z-A@mail.gmail.com>

On 21 March 2017 at 15:49, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2017-03-21, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Didn't want to say this, but you know it was quite predictable from
>> the beginning that the arguments will end up somewhere in "linux
>> console is the center of the universe, e-macs is mother of all apps
>> and monospaced text is peak of human evolution".
>
> Well, I'm glad you've finally admitted it. :)
>
>> I don't know how to help, probably if there is an important document
>> which you want different people to read, just make plain txt, or
>> HTML table, Office document, PNG image, etc.  Or just use spaces if
>> it is for ASCII-art purposes.
>
> Well written code _is_ ASCII-art.

Written code is ASCII-art only if you live in the Monospaced Kingdom,
and even there, only if you draw ASCII-art in multi-line comment blocks.
But its true, that it will have a notable place in a museum.

Mikhail


From p.f.moore at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 11:22:29 2017
From: p.f.moore at gmail.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 08:22:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Manager for project templates,
 that allows "incremental" feature addition
Message-ID: <10cc3f5f-9345-4db7-846b-cd912a3771a9@googlegroups.com>

I'm looking for a utility that is something like cookiecutter, in that it generates a "template" project for me. However, I would like the ability to have a template add content based on runtime questions, something like

   Do you want to include a C extension? [yes/no]
   ... adds Extension() to setup.py, adds a C source file, etc
   Do you want to include tests? [yes/no]
   ... add a test directory with a sample test
   Tests to run under tox? [yes/no]
   ... add tox support (this question shouldn't be asked if the previous answer was "no")

As far as I know, this sort of feature isn't available in cookiecutter, nor is it planned.

Does anyone know of any similar utility that has this feature? If not, how do people handle it themselves? The "obvious" solution is just to have a full-featured template and cut out what's not needed, but for simple tasks, I find that cutting out the unneeded stuff can be a bigger job than writing the actual code.

Some examples of use cases I hit:

1. I need a trivial Python only, single-file project, to test some packaging issue.
2. Same, but I need a C module, that implements a single trivial function.
3. Added to either of the above, I need to include tests. Maybe with tox, maybe just standalone.
4. For a bigger project I might want Sphinx included as well.
5. Maybe add standard build scripts. At the moment I don't do this, but if I *had* a utility like I describe, this is one thing I'd like to do.

For all of these cases, I only really want to maintain a single template, as I don't want to have to maintain all of the common boilerplate (author name/email, version handling, classifiers etc) multiple times.

I don't use (or particularly want to switch to) an IDE. Generally I code using VS Code or Vim, on Windows, and run tests, builds etc from the command line.

Is there any such utility that I'm not aware of? If not, then what do people use to manage this sort of thing?

Paul


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 11:37:56 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 02:37:56 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <87wpbiy9sn.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmoXxZt=TmLh7vjAkJMDR8d0dj6wc=2E5WBYipbEPXSm8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.88.1490036490.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <0ridndb9eIgmukzFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@giganews.com>
 <871stqzqza.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAE6NSRBLg6Z+qfDHVt3b+Hd1W6U+dXNCgsTX0dcYjTbj+MX5wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <87wpbiy9sn.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqzoQjrDSXB2iBorGSnucTzss+u9w2h_O8dmu2RK=+-rw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 1:38 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> State of the art. Thankfully, the editor of the RFC chose not to use
> tabs.

Exactly. Because tabs are the wrong character to use for this kind of
thing. So you see, this is not any fault of tabs - what you're
pointing out is that misusing them causes problems. What a surprise.
But using them appropriately has yet been shown to cause any problems.

ChrisA


From torriem at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 11:42:55 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 09:42:55 -0600
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAE6NSRBLg6Z+qfDHVt3b+Hd1W6U+dXNCgsTX0dcYjTbj+MX5wQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmoXxZt=TmLh7vjAkJMDR8d0dj6wc=2E5WBYipbEPXSm8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.88.1490036490.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <0ridndb9eIgmukzFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@giganews.com>
 <871stqzqza.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAE6NSRBLg6Z+qfDHVt3b+Hd1W6U+dXNCgsTX0dcYjTbj+MX5wQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <509d90d6-d0b3-b430-9e94-437c23589c48@gmail.com>

On 03/21/2017 08:15 AM, Mikhail V wrote:
> Didn't want to say this, but you know it was quite predictable from
> the beginning that
> the arguments will end up somewhere in "linux console is the center of the
> universe, e-macs is mother of all apps and monospaced text is peak of
> human evolution".

Knowing that, the honest question is: if you knew where this would all
end up (in a heated argument), why did post your provocation in the
first place?


From rhodri at kynesim.co.uk  Tue Mar 21 11:45:14 2017
From: rhodri at kynesim.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 15:45:14 +0000
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAE6NSRCVhp716JjYY+ewY4=QsLVBQU8P9mQB=i0uP2Wr8O1z-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmoXxZt=TmLh7vjAkJMDR8d0dj6wc=2E5WBYipbEPXSm8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.88.1490036490.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <0ridndb9eIgmukzFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@giganews.com>
 <871stqzqza.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAE6NSRBLg6Z+qfDHVt3b+Hd1W6U+dXNCgsTX0dcYjTbj+MX5wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <oareh9$iub$2@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAE6NSRCVhp716JjYY+ewY4=QsLVBQU8P9mQB=i0uP2Wr8O1z-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e51dd7ab-b794-01a1-cbd1-298da525c692@kynesim.co.uk>

On 21/03/17 15:04, Mikhail V wrote:
> On 21 March 2017 at 15:49, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2017-03-21, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Didn't want to say this, but you know it was quite predictable from
>>> the beginning that the arguments will end up somewhere in "linux
>>> console is the center of the universe, e-macs is mother of all apps
>>> and monospaced text is peak of human evolution".
>>
>> Well, I'm glad you've finally admitted it. :)
>>
>>> I don't know how to help, probably if there is an important document
>>> which you want different people to read, just make plain txt, or
>>> HTML table, Office document, PNG image, etc.  Or just use spaces if
>>> it is for ASCII-art purposes.
>>
>> Well written code _is_ ASCII-art.
>
> Written code is ASCII-art only if you live in the Monospaced Kingdom,
> and even there, only if you draw ASCII-art in multi-line comment blocks.
> But its true, that it will have a notable place in a museum.

You misunderstand; well-written code has a pleasing shape all of its 
own, never mind any deliberate attempts at diagramming.  You may be 
correct that it is only true in the Monospaced Kingdom; if so, that's a 
major plus point for fixed-width fonts.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Tue Mar 21 12:08:35 2017
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 16:08:35 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmoXxZt=TmLh7vjAkJMDR8d0dj6wc=2E5WBYipbEPXSm8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.88.1490036490.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <0ridndb9eIgmukzFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@giganews.com>
 <871stqzqza.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAE6NSRBLg6Z+qfDHVt3b+Hd1W6U+dXNCgsTX0dcYjTbj+MX5wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <509d90d6-d0b3-b430-9e94-437c23589c48@gmail.com>
 <mailman.0.1490110981.2603.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnod2k5i.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>

On 2017-03-21, Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 03/21/2017 08:15 AM, Mikhail V wrote:
>> Didn't want to say this, but you know it was quite predictable from
>> the beginning that the arguments will end up somewhere in "linux
>> console is the center of the universe, e-macs is mother of all apps
>> and monospaced text is peak of human evolution".
>
> Knowing that, the honest question is: if you knew where this would all
> end up (in a heated argument), why did post your provocation in the
> first place?

Seriously, could the trolling be any more obvious? Or successful?


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 12:20:45 2017
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 16:20:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmoXxZt=TmLh7vjAkJMDR8d0dj6wc=2E5WBYipbEPXSm8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.88.1490036490.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <0ridndb9eIgmukzFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@giganews.com>
 <871stqzqza.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAE6NSRBLg6Z+qfDHVt3b+Hd1W6U+dXNCgsTX0dcYjTbj+MX5wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <509d90d6-d0b3-b430-9e94-437c23589c48@gmail.com>
 <mailman.0.1490110981.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnod2k5i.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <oarjst$bfs$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 2017-03-21, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu> wrote:
> On 2017-03-21, Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 03/21/2017 08:15 AM, Mikhail V wrote:
>>> Didn't want to say this, but you know it was quite predictable from
>>> the beginning that the arguments will end up somewhere in "linux
>>> console is the center of the universe, e-macs is mother of all apps
>>> and monospaced text is peak of human evolution".
>>
>> Knowing that, the honest question is: if you knew where this would all
>> end up (in a heated argument), why did post your provocation in the
>> first place?
>
> Seriously, could the trolling be any more obvious? Or successful?

Question: is it still successfull trolling if we all knew that was the
intent and are just playing along for the entertainment value?

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Well, O.K.
                                  at               I'll compromise with my
                              gmail.com            principles because of
                                                   EXISTENTIAL DESPAIR!



From gheskett at shentel.net  Tue Mar 21 12:41:13 2017
From: gheskett at shentel.net (Gene Heskett)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 12:41:13 -0400
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAE6NSRCVhp716JjYY+ewY4=QsLVBQU8P9mQB=i0uP2Wr8O1z-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu> <oareh9$iub$2@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAE6NSRCVhp716JjYY+ewY4=QsLVBQU8P9mQB=i0uP2Wr8O1z-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201703211241.13562.gheskett@shentel.net>

On Tuesday 21 March 2017 11:04:58 Mikhail V wrote:

> On 21 March 2017 at 15:49, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> 
wrote:
> > On 2017-03-21, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Didn't want to say this, but you know it was quite predictable from
> >> the beginning that the arguments will end up somewhere in "linux
> >> console is the center of the universe, e-macs is mother of all apps
> >> and monospaced text is peak of human evolution".
> >
> > Well, I'm glad you've finally admitted it. :)
> >
> >> I don't know how to help, probably if there is an important
> >> document which you want different people to read, just make plain
> >> txt, or HTML table, Office document, PNG image, etc.  Or just use
> >> spaces if it is for ASCII-art purposes.
> >
> > Well written code _is_ ASCII-art.
>
> Written code is ASCII-art only if you live in the Monospaced Kingdom,

Whats wrong with Monospace (caps yours)? In case you've not heard the 
news, we (linux users, other platform unk, don't use them) have a font, 
called "hack" (announced several years ago) that is not only Monospaced 
but quite civilized to look at. I use it for editing any executable 
codes source language, and here in kmail too.

> and even there, only if you draw ASCII-art in multi-line comment
> blocks. But its true, that it will have a notable place in a museum.
>
> Mikhail


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


From jladasky at itu.edu  Tue Mar 21 13:59:30 2017
From: jladasky at itu.edu (jladasky at itu.edu)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 10:59:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Exporting Tensorflow inceptionv3 graph for weight and bias
 extraction
In-Reply-To: <9596de87-642f-4a9f-ac4f-9f7dbe5b60da@googlegroups.com>
References: <9596de87-642f-4a9f-ac4f-9f7dbe5b60da@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ad755ce-801c-4f78-836f-520974d0dd7b@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 6:27:43 AM UTC-7, Zizwan wrote:
> Anyone can help me with this?

TensorFlow has a Python wrapper, but it isn't Python.  

Do you require Python for what you are trying to do?  You might try looking for more information in the TensorFlow tutorial newsgroup:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/tensorflow

I'm just getting started with TF myself, so I'm sorry that I can't answer your question.


From oleg at redhat.com  Tue Mar 21 14:33:20 2017
From: oleg at redhat.com (Oleg Nesterov)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 19:33:20 +0100
Subject: __del__ is not called after creating a new reference
In-Reply-To: <58d01814$0$1587$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <20170317145459.GA3628@redhat.com>
 <mailman.93.1489762697.2614.python-list@python.org>
 <58d016b6$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <58d01814$0$1587$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20170321183320.GC32729@redhat.com>

On 03/21, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>
> I changed the code to run:
>
> c = C()
> del c
>
> and now I'm seeing the same thing as you: DEL is only printed once.

Yes, I've forwared this question to python-dev, please see
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2017-March/147631.html

so the implementation is fine, the docs should be probably updated.

Oleg.



From breamoreboy at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 16:19:15 2017
From: breamoreboy at gmail.com (breamoreboy at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 13:19:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PyPy2.7 and PyPy3.5 v5.7 - two in one release
Message-ID: <fdc2d312-f9ed-42fe-97ca-ad2dd8230079@googlegroups.com>

Hopefully this https://morepypy.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/pypy27-and-pypy35-v57-two-in-one-release.html is rather more interesting for some than blatant trolling about spaces vs tabs.

Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.


From robertoshea2k11 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 16:35:11 2017
From: robertoshea2k11 at gmail.com (Robert O'Shea)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 20:35:11 +0000
Subject: PyPy2.7 and PyPy3.5 v5.7 - two in one release
In-Reply-To: <fdc2d312-f9ed-42fe-97ca-ad2dd8230079@googlegroups.com>
References: <fdc2d312-f9ed-42fe-97ca-ad2dd8230079@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAFkm8ZENYQzfjJ=W3sgddSMjosKo-eGQ_8XnH90k5cXPPY8AUQ@mail.gmail.com>

Been meaning to give Pypy a try for a while, tonight may be the time

On Tue 21 Mar 2017, 20:32 , <breamoreboy at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hopefully this
> https://morepypy.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/pypy27-and-pypy35-v57-two-in-one-release.html
> is rather more interesting for some than blatant trolling about spaces vs
> tabs.
>
> Kindest regards.
>
> Mark Lawrence.
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Mar 21 16:59:51 2017
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 20:59:51 +0000
Subject: Python.NET question?
In-Reply-To: <oaqlfi$7ei$1@dont-email.me>
References: <oaqlfi$7ei$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <d4cc3242-bf18-0402-620a-2e452010e7b3@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2017-03-21 07:27, Tristan B. Kildaire wrote:
> Is Python.NET a version of Python that compiles Python source code to
> Microsoft's IR for running by a MS runtime?
>
Is this what you're talking about?

https://github.com/pythonnet/pythonnet

It says """Python for .NET is a package that gives Python programmers 
nearly seamless integration with the .NET Common Language Runtime (CLR) 
and provides a powerful application scripting tool for .NET developers."""



From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 17:27:59 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 22:27:59 +0100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <201703211241.13562.gheskett@shentel.net>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu> <oareh9$iub$2@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAE6NSRCVhp716JjYY+ewY4=QsLVBQU8P9mQB=i0uP2Wr8O1z-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <201703211241.13562.gheskett@shentel.net>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRDfgxsH-1Lv_S9E2eaocLNRR7TE33kDpsPHDdh_c9hQkQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 21 March 2017 at 17:41, Gene Heskett <gheskett at shentel.net> wrote:
> On Tuesday 21 March 2017 11:04:58 Mikhail V wrote:
>
>> On 21 March 2017 at 15:49, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> > On 2017-03-21, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I don't know how to help, probably if there is an important
>> >> document which you want different people to read, just make plain
>> >> txt, or HTML table, Office document, PNG image, etc.  Or just use
>> >> spaces if it is for ASCII-art purposes.
>> >
>> > Well written code _is_ ASCII-art.
>>
>> Written code is ASCII-art only if you live in the Monospaced Kingdom,

>
> Whats wrong with Monospace (caps yours)? In case you've not heard the
> news, we (linux users, other platform unk, don't use them) have a font,
> called "hack" (announced several years ago) that is not only Monospaced
> but quite civilized to look at. I use it for editing any executable
> codes source language, and here in kmail too.
>

This was already discussed here what is wrong with monospaced,
but ok, since you question. Look, I know what is Hack font as
well a lot of other thing about fonts, since I work on fonts
and reading-related problems my whole life.
I'd just tell one thing since I am a bit tired: if you wish,
take an advice: avoid *any* monospaced fonts as plague if you are
reading a lot of information, this includes coding.
Avoid *any* sepia color schemes as plague.
Avoid *any* sans-serif font. Get the most close
to Garamond or Perpetua font.

For cases, where you *absolutely must* use monospaced
font, stick to Courier font (it is called "Courier 10 pitch" on Linux, if
you don't have it in the system, try to find it, it must be
in some true type font package).
As for editing executables I don't know what *exactly*
are you trying to do, what processes are involved,
so I can't advice much.
And don't worry if a zero does not look like a pusy,
but looks like a big O, this is irrelevant in most cases.

Now if you follow this, then probably in some time you
will say: thanks, good man Mikhail.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 17:40:27 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 08:40:27 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAE6NSRDfgxsH-1Lv_S9E2eaocLNRR7TE33kDpsPHDdh_c9hQkQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu> <oareh9$iub$2@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAE6NSRCVhp716JjYY+ewY4=QsLVBQU8P9mQB=i0uP2Wr8O1z-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <201703211241.13562.gheskett@shentel.net>
 <CAE6NSRDfgxsH-1Lv_S9E2eaocLNRR7TE33kDpsPHDdh_c9hQkQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpambhQ1fsPjq-rM-WUPRE_QG6W0U0xC0aAKSyXrANEfA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd just tell one thing since I am a bit tired: if you wish,
> take an advice: avoid *any* monospaced fonts as plague if you are
> reading a lot of information, this includes coding.
> Avoid *any* sepia color schemes as plague.
> Avoid *any* sans-serif font. Get the most close
> to Garamond or Perpetua font.
>
> For cases, where you *absolutely must* use monospaced
> font, stick to Courier font (it is called "Courier 10 pitch" on Linux, if
> you don't have it in the system, try to find it, it must be
> in some true type font package).
> As for editing executables I don't know what *exactly*
> are you trying to do, what processes are involved,
> so I can't advice much.
> And don't worry if a zero does not look like a pusy,
> but looks like a big O, this is irrelevant in most cases.
>
> Now if you follow this, then probably in some time you
> will say: thanks, good man Mikhail.

Thanks, good troll Mikhail. You started a nice thread, but your advice
is now crystal clear for what it is: duff.

ChrisA


From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 18:32:07 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 23:32:07 +0100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpambhQ1fsPjq-rM-WUPRE_QG6W0U0xC0aAKSyXrANEfA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu> <oareh9$iub$2@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAE6NSRCVhp716JjYY+ewY4=QsLVBQU8P9mQB=i0uP2Wr8O1z-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <201703211241.13562.gheskett@shentel.net>
 <CAE6NSRDfgxsH-1Lv_S9E2eaocLNRR7TE33kDpsPHDdh_c9hQkQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpambhQ1fsPjq-rM-WUPRE_QG6W0U0xC0aAKSyXrANEfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRC_M76_ONj4hABnHbt4DViVEMNN5LpWjDJT1aYv=_eqxw@mail.gmail.com>

On 21 March 2017 at 22:40, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'd just tell one thing since I am a bit tired: if you wish,
>> take an advice: avoid *any* monospaced fonts as plague if you are
>> reading a lot of information, this includes coding.
>> Avoid *any* sepia color schemes as plague.
>> Avoid *any* sans-serif font. Get the most close
>> to Garamond or Perpetua font.
>>
>> For cases, where you *absolutely must* use monospaced
>> font, stick to Courier font (it is called "Courier 10 pitch" on Linux, if
>> you don't have it in the system, try to find it, it must be
>> in some true type font package).
>> As for editing executables I don't know what *exactly*
>> are you trying to do, what processes are involved,
>> so I can't advice much.
>> And don't worry if a zero does not look like a pusy,
>> but looks like a big O, this is irrelevant in most cases.
>>
>> Now if you follow this, then probably in some time you
>> will say: thanks, good man Mikhail.
>
> Thanks, good troll Mikhail. You started a nice thread, but your advice
> is now crystal clear for what it is: duff.
>

Youre welcome, good troll Chris  :)
And in this thread (apart this comment) you were reasonable, I am pleased.


From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 21:16:14 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 02:16:14 +0100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <509d90d6-d0b3-b430-9e94-437c23589c48@gmail.com>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmoXxZt=TmLh7vjAkJMDR8d0dj6wc=2E5WBYipbEPXSm8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.88.1490036490.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <0ridndb9eIgmukzFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@giganews.com>
 <871stqzqza.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAE6NSRBLg6Z+qfDHVt3b+Hd1W6U+dXNCgsTX0dcYjTbj+MX5wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <509d90d6-d0b3-b430-9e94-437c23589c48@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRB_8SeJOKnL-EawaWNHYQ9cT1NOO8jdL1tS2bFYi5Y3Dg@mail.gmail.com>

On 21 March 2017 at 16:42, Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 03/21/2017 08:15 AM, Mikhail V wrote:
>> Didn't want to say this, but you know it was quite predictable from
>> the beginning that
>> the arguments will end up somewhere in "linux console is the center of the
>> universe, e-macs is mother of all apps and monospaced text is peak of
>> human evolution".
>
> Knowing that, the honest question is: if you knew where this would all
> end up (in a heated argument), why did post your provocation in the
> first place?

That was a metaphor, it was predictable that arguments
will touch some retro aspects, but it was quite unpredictable
that till now I did not see good arguments for spaces, and
I was interested of course to see some technical aspects.

So one of mentioned points for spaces which I can count as
more or less real argument, that many web forms keep
converting tabs to spaces, when I paste code into them
and when I copy back into the editor, I need again to
convert them. This is not a good argument against
tabs but this is at least a *real* issue. Unlike other,
(not so logical or yet not supported) arguments.

Does it sound reasonable?
Why I ask? Well obviously because I and probably
many people want to know why cannot one make
sort of styleguide based on pros and cons.


Mikhail


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Mar 21 21:28:56 2017
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 12:28:56 +1100
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmoXxZt=TmLh7vjAkJMDR8d0dj6wc=2E5WBYipbEPXSm8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.88.1490036490.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <0ridndb9eIgmukzFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@giganews.com>
 <871stqzqza.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAE6NSRBLg6Z+qfDHVt3b+Hd1W6U+dXNCgsTX0dcYjTbj+MX5wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <509d90d6-d0b3-b430-9e94-437c23589c48@gmail.com>
 <mailman.0.1490110981.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnod2k5i.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <oarjst$bfs$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <85inn2f6av.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> writes:

> Question: is it still successfull trolling if we all knew that was the
> intent and are just playing along for the entertainment value?

Yes, it creates more noise and drives away signal from people who don't
want to be in a noisy environment. That is success for the troll.

-- 
 \         ?Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?? ?I think so, |
  `\      Brain, but isn't that why they invented tube socks?? ?_Pinky |
_o__)                                                   and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney



From nad at python.org  Tue Mar 21 23:16:50 2017
From: nad at python.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 23:16:50 -0400
Subject: [RELEASE] Python 3.6.1 is now available
Message-ID: <4AA9F522-CAC7-4ACC-991C-495F17E1045A@python.org>

On behalf of the Python development community and the Python 3.6 release
team, I would like to announce the availability of Python 3.6.1, the
first maintenance release of Python 3.6.  3.6.0 was released on 2016-12-22
to great interest and now, three months later, we are providing the
first set of bugfixes and documentation updates for it.  Although it
should be transparent to users of Python, 3.6.1 is the first release
after some major changes to our development process so we ask users
who build Python from source to be on the lookout for any unexpected
differences.

Please see "What?s New In Python 3.6" for more information:

https://docs.python.org/3.6/whatsnew/3.6.html

You can find Python 3.6.1 here:

https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-361/

and its change log here:

https://docs.python.org/3.6/whatsnew/changelog.html#python-3-6-1

The next maintenance release of Python 3.6 is expected to follow in
about 3 months by the end of 2017-06.  More information about the 3.6
release schedule can be found here:

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0494/


--
  Ned Deily
  nad at python.org -- []



From lele at metapensiero.it  Wed Mar 22 05:40:36 2017
From: lele at metapensiero.it (Lele Gaifax)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:40:36 +0100
Subject: Manager for project templates,
 that allows "incremental" feature addition
References: <10cc3f5f-9345-4db7-846b-cd912a3771a9@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <871stpzm23.fsf@metapensiero.it>

Paul  Moore <p.f.moore at gmail.com> writes:

> I'm looking for a utility that is something like cookiecutter, in that it generates a "template" project for me. However, I would like the ability to have a template add content based on runtime questions, something like
>
>    Do you want to include a C extension? [yes/no]
>    ... adds Extension() to setup.py, adds a C source file, etc
>    Do you want to include tests? [yes/no]
>    ... add a test directory with a sample test
>    Tests to run under tox? [yes/no]
>    ... add tox support (this question shouldn't be asked if the previous answer was "no")
>
> As far as I know, this sort of feature isn't available in cookiecutter, nor is it planned.
>
> Does anyone know of any similar utility that has this feature?

This what I wrote and heavily use

  https://pypi.python.org/pypi/metapensiero.tool.tinject

It seems to fit some, but not all, of your requested features.

Hope this helps,
ciao, lele.
-- 
nickname: Lele Gaifax | Quando vivr? di quello che ho pensato ieri
real: Emanuele Gaifas | comincer? ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
lele at metapensiero.it  |                 -- Fortunato Depero, 1929.



From barry at barrys-emacs.org  Wed Mar 22 06:40:47 2017
From: barry at barrys-emacs.org (Barry Scott)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:40:47 +0000
Subject: Announcing SCM Workbench 0.8.5 GUI for Git, Mercurial (hg) and
 Subversion (svn)
Message-ID: <C5950DDD-8D29-4925-9E33-7C79963C2822@barrys-emacs.org>

SCM Workbench features

	? Support Subversion (svn), Mercurial (hg) and Git projects.
	? Easy to learn and use
	? Built in User Guide describes the operation and features of the application.
	? Add project wizard can scan for all your existing projects.
	? All subversion client operations in a GUI
	? Many Git client operations in a GUI
	? GUI git rebase
	? Some mercurial (hg) client operations in a GUI
	? Enhanced operations (subversion rename of modified files etc)
	? Support software development workflow
	? Built in GUI diff showing line and character diffs
	? Ability to diff between commits in a files history
	? Runs on Windows, Mac OS X and Unix platforms

Kits are available for Windows, macOS and Fedora.

Please visit http://scm-workbench.barrys-emacs.org/ for downloads and further information on SCM Workbench.

SCM Workbench is implemented in Python3 using PyQt5, pysvn, GitPython and hglib-python.

Barry



From info at wingware.com  Wed Mar 22 12:08:24 2017
From: info at wingware.com (Wingware)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 12:08:24 -0400
Subject: ANN:  Wing Python IDE 6.0.3 released
Message-ID: <58D2A178.6050002@wingware.com>

Hi,

We've just released Wing 6.0.3 which implements auto-completion in 
strings and comments, supports syntax highlighting and error indicators 
for f-strings, adds a How-To for Jupyter notebooks, allows concurrent 
update of recent menus from multiple instances of Wing, fixes Django 
template debugging, and makes about 70 other improvements.  For details, 
see http://wingware.com/pub/wingide/6.0.3/CHANGELOG.txt

Wing 6 is the latest major release in Wingware's family of Python IDEs, 
including Wing Pro, Wing Personal, and Wing 101.  Wing 6 adds many new 
features, introduces a new annual license option for Wing Pro, and makes 
Wing Personal free.

New Features

  * Improved Multiple Selections:  Quickly add selections and edit them
    all at once
  * Easy Remote Development:  Work seamlessly on remote Linux, OS X, and
    Raspberry Pi systems
  * Debugging in the Python Shell:  Reach breakpoints and exceptions in
    (and from) the Python Shell
  * Recursive Debugging:  Debug code invoked in the context of stack
    frames that are already being debugged
  * PEP 484 and PEP 526 Type Hinting:  Inform Wing's static analysis
    engine of types it cannot infer
  * Support for Python 3.6 and Stackless 3.4:  Use async and other new
    language features
  * Optimized debugger:  Run faster, particularly in multi-process and
    multi-threaded code
  * Support for OS X full screen mode:  Zoom to a virtual screen, with
    auto-hiding menu bar
  * Added a new One Dark color palette:  Enjoy the best dark display
    style yet
  * Updated French and German localizations:  Thanks to Jean Sanchez,
    Laurent Fasnacht, and Christoph Heitkamp

For a more detailed overview of new features see the release notice at 
http://wingware.com/news/2017-03-21

Annual Use License Option

Wing 6 adds the option of purchasing a lower-cost expiring annual 
license for Wing Pro.  An annual license includes access to all 
available Wing Pro versions while it is valid, and then ceases to 
function if it is now renewed.  Pricing for annual licenses is US$ 
179/user for Commercial Use and US$ 69/user for Non-Commercial Use.

Perpetual licenses for Wing Pro will continue to be available at the 
same pricing.

The cost of extending Support+Upgrades subscriptions on Non-Commercial 
Use perpetual licenses for Wing Pro has also been dropped from US$ 89 to 
US$ 39 per user.

For details, see https://wingware.com/store/

Wing Personal is Free

Wing Personal is now free and no longer requires a license to run.  It 
now also includes the Source Browser, PyLint, and OS Commands tools, and 
supports the scripting API and Perspectives.

However, Wing Personal does not include Wing Pro's advanced editing, 
debugging, testing and code management features, such as remote 
development, refactoring, find uses, version control, unit testing, 
interactive debug probe, multi-process and child process debugging, move 
program counter, conditional breakpoints, debug watch, 
framework-specific support (for Jupyter, Django, and others), find 
symbol in project, and other features.

Links

Release notice: http://wingware.com/news/2017-03-21
Download: http://wingware.com/downloads
Buy: http://wingware.com/store/purchase
Upgrade: https://wingware.com/store/upgrade

Questions?  Don't hesitate to email us at support at wingware.com.

Thanks,

-- 

Stephan Deibel
Wingware | Python IDE

The Intelligent Development Environment for Python Programmers

wingware.com



From k.d.jantzen at mailbox.org  Wed Mar 22 12:42:08 2017
From: k.d.jantzen at mailbox.org (Klaus Jantzen)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 17:42:08 +0100
Subject: Recompilation of Python3.6.x
Message-ID: <8e4af5bf-2e61-50ad-8300-233b4f14500e@mailbox.org>

Hello,

in order to have the Python-SQLite support available one has to 
recompile Python. For the recompiliation to succeed a number of 
'modules/libs' have to be present.

In the internet I found the following list

build-essential
libz-dev
libreadline-dev
libncursesw5-dev
libssl-dev
libgdbm-dev
libsqlite3-dev
libbz2-dev
liblzma-dev
tk-dev
libdb-dev
libc6-dev

zlib

After having installed these 'modules/libs' I recompiled Python3.6.1 and 
although the steps

'make', 'make test', and 'make install' produced some errors the 
sqlite3-support is available.

My question: Is this list complete or are there superfluous items?

My suggestion: Couldn't such a list be provided in the README file?
-- 

K.D.J.



From tomuxiong at gmx.com  Wed Mar 22 13:34:52 2017
From: tomuxiong at gmx.com (Thomas Nyberg)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 13:34:52 -0400
Subject: Recompilation of Python3.6.x
In-Reply-To: <8e4af5bf-2e61-50ad-8300-233b4f14500e@mailbox.org>
References: <8e4af5bf-2e61-50ad-8300-233b4f14500e@mailbox.org>
Message-ID: <d0560b85-1cd9-a976-b44c-150c43ad3faa@gmx.com>

On 03/22/2017 12:42 PM, Klaus Jantzen wrote:
> Hello,
>
> in order to have the Python-SQLite support available one has to
> recompile Python. For the recompiliation to succeed a number of
> 'modules/libs' have to be present.
>
> In the internet I found the following list
>
> build-essential
> libz-dev
> libreadline-dev
> libncursesw5-dev
> libssl-dev
> libgdbm-dev
> libsqlite3-dev
> libbz2-dev
> liblzma-dev
> tk-dev
> libdb-dev
> libc6-dev
>
> zlib
>
> After having installed these 'modules/libs' I recompiled Python3.6.1 and
> although the steps
>
> 'make', 'make test', and 'make install' produced some errors the
> sqlite3-support is available.
>
> My question: Is this list complete or are there superfluous items?
>
> My suggestion: Couldn't such a list be provided in the README file?

If you're using Ubuntu/debian, you could use `sudo apt-get build-dep 
python3.5` (might need another version depending upon what you have in 
your package manager). What that does is install the packages required 
to build the debian packages. Unless any new libraries are needed for 
3.6, you should be good.

I can't speak for the maintainers, but I don't think that providing such 
a list is super reasonable considering that there are many different OSs 
which have sometimes have slightly different library package names 
(though of course one could argue that Ubuntu/debian helps a lot of people).

Cheers,
Thomas


From irving.duran at gmail.com  Wed Mar 22 14:37:55 2017
From: irving.duran at gmail.com (Irving Duran)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 13:37:55 -0500
Subject: How to search out all Zip codes and replace with the first 2
 digits, in a Pandas dataframe, with the use of regex?
In-Reply-To: <403347784.6411726.1490021609515@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <403347784.6411726.1490021609515.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <403347784.6411726.1490021609515@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAC9TaS6QbYD6pTosWEDAoPzSw3Dhr-DbY-BRuZapZ95pOpuDWw@mail.gmail.com>

You can do the following

df['field'] = df.replace(r'(?<![\d])(\d{2})', '', regex=True)




Thank You,

Irving Duran

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 9:53 AM, David Shi via Python-list <
python-list at python.org> wrote:

> Hi, there,
> Can anyone help?
> How to search out all Zip codes and replace with the first 2 digits, in a
> Pandas dataframe, with the use of regex?
>
> For instance, a ZIP code 33132 was found and replaced with 33.
> Looking forward to hearing from you.
> Regards.
> David
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Wed Mar 22 15:22:46 2017
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 19:22:46 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Recompilation of Python3.6.x
References: <8e4af5bf-2e61-50ad-8300-233b4f14500e@mailbox.org>
 <d0560b85-1cd9-a976-b44c-150c43ad3faa@gmx.com>
 <mailman.28.1490204405.2603.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnod5jtl.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>

On 2017-03-22, Thomas Nyberg <tomuxiong at gmx.com> wrote:
> I can't speak for the maintainers, but I don't think that providing such 
> a list is super reasonable considering that there are many different OSs 
> which have sometimes have slightly different library package names 
> (though of course one could argue that Ubuntu/debian helps a lot of people).

A simple table with a list of the library names, the debian package
names, and the rpm names would provide the information in a way that
would be useful to everyone.


From k.d.jantzen at mailbox.org  Wed Mar 22 15:38:13 2017
From: k.d.jantzen at mailbox.org (Klaus Jantzen)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:38:13 +0100
Subject: Recompilation of Python3.6.x
In-Reply-To: <d0560b85-1cd9-a976-b44c-150c43ad3faa@gmx.com>
References: <8e4af5bf-2e61-50ad-8300-233b4f14500e@mailbox.org>
 <d0560b85-1cd9-a976-b44c-150c43ad3faa@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <4fb344fc-a31f-2807-10a9-f491b507e5d7@mailbox.org>

   On 03/22/2017 06:34 PM, Thomas Nyberg wrote:

     On 03/22/2017 12:42 PM, Klaus Jantzen wrote:

       Hello,

       in order to have the Python-SQLite support available one has to
       recompile Python. For the recompiliation to succeed a number of
       'modules/libs' have to be present.

       In the internet I found the following list

       build-essential
       libz-dev
       libreadline-dev
       libncursesw5-dev
       libssl-dev
       libgdbm-dev
       libsqlite3-dev
       libbz2-dev
       liblzma-dev
       tk-dev
       libdb-dev
       libc6-dev

       zlib

       After having installed these 'modules/libs' I recompiled Python3.6.1
       and
       although the steps

       'make', 'make test', and 'make install' produced some errors the
       sqlite3-support is available.

       My question: Is this list complete or are there superfluous items?

       My suggestion: Couldn't such a list be provided in the README file?

     If you're using Ubuntu/debian, you could use `sudo apt-get build-dep
     python3.5` (might need another version depending upon what you have in
     your package manager). What that does is install the packages required
     to build the debian packages. Unless any new libraries are needed for
     3.6, you should be good.

   I did not know somenthing like this exists.

     I can't speak for the maintainers, but I don't think that providing such
     a list is super reasonable considering that there are many different OSs
     which have sometimes have slightly different library package names
     (though of course one could argue that Ubuntu/debian helps a lot of
     people).

     Cheers,
     Thomas

   With the above my suggestion is superfluous.

   Thanks a lot for the information.

   --

   K.D.J.


From tomuxiong at gmx.com  Wed Mar 22 16:34:15 2017
From: tomuxiong at gmx.com (Thomas Nyberg)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 16:34:15 -0400
Subject: Recompilation of Python3.6.x
In-Reply-To: <slrnod5jtl.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
References: <8e4af5bf-2e61-50ad-8300-233b4f14500e@mailbox.org>
 <d0560b85-1cd9-a976-b44c-150c43ad3faa@gmx.com>
 <mailman.28.1490204405.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnod5jtl.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <0394cba8-3d5c-399c-ae41-57adf280363b@gmx.com>

On 03/22/2017 03:22 PM, Jon Ribbens wrote:
> A simple table with a list of the library names, the debian package
> names, and the rpm names would provide the information in a way that
> would be useful to everyone.
>

I definitely agree, but it would be kind of difficult to maintain. I 
mean if you supported debian and redhat (should others be considered?), 
then who's responsibility is it to keep it up to date? And then for Macs 
would you use names from brew? For Windows what would be done there? 
Other systems? I might be over complicating things, but still it feels 
like this could quickly fall out of date (though I guess new libraries 
are introduced pretty rarely, so maybe this is an unfounded fear).

It's a bit hypothetical anyway. I guess if someone started gathering all 
of this information it could maybe be added? If not directly into the 
actual repository then maybe somewhere on the main python website. 
Having this would definitely be great, but I know I personally don't 
feel like doing the legwork...

Cheers,
Thomas


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Wed Mar 22 16:45:45 2017
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:45:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Recompilation of Python3.6.x
References: <8e4af5bf-2e61-50ad-8300-233b4f14500e@mailbox.org>
 <d0560b85-1cd9-a976-b44c-150c43ad3faa@gmx.com>
 <mailman.28.1490204405.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnod5jtl.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <0394cba8-3d5c-399c-ae41-57adf280363b@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <oaunpp$s4m$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 2017-03-22, Thomas Nyberg <tomuxiong at gmx.com> wrote:
> On 03/22/2017 03:22 PM, Jon Ribbens wrote:

>> A simple table with a list of the library names, the debian package
>> names, and the rpm names would provide the information in a way that
>> would be useful to everyone.

A _simple_ table would be useful.  However, a _simple_ table is not
possible.

> I definitely agree, but it would be kind of difficult to maintain. I
> mean if you supported debian and redhat (should others be
> considered?),

And you would need table for each _version_ of each distribution
(libraries sometimes get combined/renamed/split).

And you would need tables showing which libraires are required for
which Python features: tkinter is optional, crypto is optional (or at
least used to be), etc.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! FUN is never having to
                                  at               say you're SUSHI!!
                              gmail.com            



From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Mar 22 17:05:07 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 08:05:07 +1100
Subject: Recompilation of Python3.6.x
In-Reply-To: <0394cba8-3d5c-399c-ae41-57adf280363b@gmx.com>
References: <8e4af5bf-2e61-50ad-8300-233b4f14500e@mailbox.org>
 <d0560b85-1cd9-a976-b44c-150c43ad3faa@gmx.com>
 <mailman.28.1490204405.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnod5jtl.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <0394cba8-3d5c-399c-ae41-57adf280363b@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp7S1Pf31_EsRZCLWMtRDjShfB1ZBX2kriNTjAEa555nw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:34 AM, Thomas Nyberg <tomuxiong at gmx.com> wrote:
> On 03/22/2017 03:22 PM, Jon Ribbens wrote:
>>
>> A simple table with a list of the library names, the debian package
>> names, and the rpm names would provide the information in a way that
>> would be useful to everyone.
>>
>
> I definitely agree, but it would be kind of difficult to maintain. I mean if
> you supported debian and redhat (should others be considered?), then who's
> responsibility is it to keep it up to date? And then for Macs would you use
> names from brew? For Windows what would be done there? Other systems? I
> might be over complicating things, but still it feels like this could
> quickly fall out of date (though I guess new libraries are introduced pretty
> rarely, so maybe this is an unfounded fear).

This is exactly what apt build-dep is. It's part of the package
manager system, so it's tied to your own version of Debian/Ubuntu/etc,
and it's usually pretty reliable. You ask for the build deps of a
previous Python 3, and they'll generally be what you need for the
latest.

ChrisA


From wintermute24x7 at icloud.com  Wed Mar 22 17:57:43 2017
From: wintermute24x7 at icloud.com (M. R.P.)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 14:57:43 -0700
Subject: python source code
Message-ID: <M5qdnc1jhdTEbk_FnZ2dnUU7-U3NnZ2d@giganews.com>

does anyone know were I can python source code programs?


From tomuxiong at gmx.com  Wed Mar 22 18:03:49 2017
From: tomuxiong at gmx.com (Thomas Nyberg)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 18:03:49 -0400
Subject: python source code
In-Reply-To: <M5qdnc1jhdTEbk_FnZ2dnUU7-U3NnZ2d@giganews.com>
References: <M5qdnc1jhdTEbk_FnZ2dnUU7-U3NnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <5f8f4d0f-f114-41cd-57df-db8ba32d358c@gmx.com>

On 03/22/2017 05:57 PM, M. R.P. wrote:
> does anyone know were I can python source code programs?

The source code for cpython (i.e. the most common interpreter) can be 
found here:

	https://www.python.org/downloads/source/
	https://github.com/python/cpython

Unless you mean the source of a specific python program...then it 
depends on the program and we'll need a bit more detail...

Cheers,
Thomas


From python at lucidity.plus.com  Wed Mar 22 18:08:07 2017
From: python at lucidity.plus.com (Erik)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 22:08:07 +0000
Subject: python source code
In-Reply-To: <M5qdnc1jhdTEbk_FnZ2dnUU7-U3NnZ2d@giganews.com>
References: <M5qdnc1jhdTEbk_FnZ2dnUU7-U3NnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <0ac5a31c-086f-f68b-572d-ad8f56764b4a@lucidity.plus.com>

On 22/03/17 21:57, M. R.P. wrote:
> does anyone know were I can [find?] python source code programs?

Are you looking for the source to a Python language implementation 
itself? If so, see this link:

https://www.python.org/downloads/

If not, what are you looking for, exactly? What sort of Python programs?

E.


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu  Wed Mar 22 19:23:51 2017
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 23:23:51 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Recompilation of Python3.6.x
References: <8e4af5bf-2e61-50ad-8300-233b4f14500e@mailbox.org>
 <d0560b85-1cd9-a976-b44c-150c43ad3faa@gmx.com>
 <mailman.28.1490204405.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnod5jtl.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <0394cba8-3d5c-399c-ae41-57adf280363b@gmx.com>
 <oaunpp$s4m$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.33.1490215567.2603.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnod621m.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>

On 2017-03-22, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2017-03-22, Thomas Nyberg <tomuxiong at gmx.com> wrote:
>> On 03/22/2017 03:22 PM, Jon Ribbens wrote:
>>> A simple table with a list of the library names, the debian package
>>> names, and the rpm names would provide the information in a way that
>>> would be useful to everyone.
>
> A _simple_ table would be useful.  However, a _simple_ table is not
> possible.
>
>> I definitely agree, but it would be kind of difficult to maintain. I
>> mean if you supported debian and redhat (should others be
>> considered?),
>
> And you would need table for each _version_ of each distribution
> (libraries sometimes get combined/renamed/split).

Not really, that's why I suggested one of the fields in the table
would be the standard library name - people should always be able
to use that to find the appropriate package for their distribution
(if there is one, otherwise they'll need to compile from source).

> And you would need tables showing which libraires are required for
> which Python features: tkinter is optional, crypto is optional (or at
> least used to be), etc.

That's a good idea - that would make the simple table have 4 columns:
name, deb, rpm, python module (or "essential").


From nathan.ernst at gmail.com  Wed Mar 22 19:50:00 2017
From: nathan.ernst at gmail.com (Nathan Ernst)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 18:50:00 -0500
Subject: Recompilation of Python3.6.x
In-Reply-To: <slrnod621m.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
References: <8e4af5bf-2e61-50ad-8300-233b4f14500e@mailbox.org>
 <d0560b85-1cd9-a976-b44c-150c43ad3faa@gmx.com>
 <mailman.28.1490204405.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnod5jtl.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <0394cba8-3d5c-399c-ae41-57adf280363b@gmx.com>
 <oaunpp$s4m$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.33.1490215567.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnod621m.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <CAPjBxg_kE7xHiRKVsXJyqeRVUNUiN0X-zZs4=Km_MBp6z6oZfw@mail.gmail.com>

I would also add a link to the dependency's project page, in case building
from source is necessary.

You don't always have root, and you're not always building with the system
supplied compiler.

There are a lot of situations that may require building from source. Far
too many to even bother to enumerate.

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 6:23 PM, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.eu>
wrote:

> On 2017-03-22, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 2017-03-22, Thomas Nyberg <tomuxiong at gmx.com> wrote:
> >> On 03/22/2017 03:22 PM, Jon Ribbens wrote:
> >>> A simple table with a list of the library names, the debian package
> >>> names, and the rpm names would provide the information in a way that
> >>> would be useful to everyone.
> >
> > A _simple_ table would be useful.  However, a _simple_ table is not
> > possible.
> >
> >> I definitely agree, but it would be kind of difficult to maintain. I
> >> mean if you supported debian and redhat (should others be
> >> considered?),
> >
> > And you would need table for each _version_ of each distribution
> > (libraries sometimes get combined/renamed/split).
>
> Not really, that's why I suggested one of the fields in the table
> would be the standard library name - people should always be able
> to use that to find the appropriate package for their distribution
> (if there is one, otherwise they'll need to compile from source).
>
> > And you would need tables showing which libraires are required for
> > which Python features: tkinter is optional, crypto is optional (or at
> > least used to be), etc.
>
> That's a good idea - that would make the simple table have 4 columns:
> name, deb, rpm, python module (or "essential").
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Mar 22 21:39:26 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 12:39:26 +1100
Subject: Recompilation of Python3.6.x
In-Reply-To: <CAPjBxg_kE7xHiRKVsXJyqeRVUNUiN0X-zZs4=Km_MBp6z6oZfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8e4af5bf-2e61-50ad-8300-233b4f14500e@mailbox.org>
 <d0560b85-1cd9-a976-b44c-150c43ad3faa@gmx.com>
 <mailman.28.1490204405.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnod5jtl.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <0394cba8-3d5c-399c-ae41-57adf280363b@gmx.com>
 <oaunpp$s4m$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.33.1490215567.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnod621m.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <CAPjBxg_kE7xHiRKVsXJyqeRVUNUiN0X-zZs4=Km_MBp6z6oZfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrTf9YUusgiOTSaTfyfQ3Nv14WmbFLCqMFELopmnNp3vQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Nathan Ernst <nathan.ernst at gmail.com> wrote:
> I would also add a link to the dependency's project page, in case building
> from source is necessary.
>
> You don't always have root, and you're not always building with the system
> supplied compiler.
>
> There are a lot of situations that may require building from source. Far
> too many to even bother to enumerate.

If you're building a large project from source and are not using a
system-provided compiler, you should have enough experience with
building stuff from source that you can track libraries down yourself.
Conversely, if you don't have that experience, why in the world are
you not using a provided compiler?

You don't need admin access to install a compiler on Windows. On
Linux, you can generally replicate the environment somewhere else
(unless you're trying to build for some really unusual CPU, in which
case, again, you should first have enough experience to do it
manually), build using the normal methods, and then carry the binary
up to the restricted system.

ChrisA


From k.d.jantzen at mailbox.org  Thu Mar 23 03:45:35 2017
From: k.d.jantzen at mailbox.org (Klaus Jantzen)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 08:45:35 +0100
Subject: Recompilation of Python3.6.x
In-Reply-To: <slrnod621m.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
References: <8e4af5bf-2e61-50ad-8300-233b4f14500e@mailbox.org>
 <d0560b85-1cd9-a976-b44c-150c43ad3faa@gmx.com>
 <mailman.28.1490204405.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnod5jtl.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <0394cba8-3d5c-399c-ae41-57adf280363b@gmx.com>
 <oaunpp$s4m$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.33.1490215567.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnod621m.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
Message-ID: <5d56bddc-cb65-e216-7a37-4e2d417dbb3e@mailbox.org>

On 03/23/2017 12:23 AM, Jon Ribbens wrote:
> On 2017-03-22, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2017-03-22, Thomas Nyberg <tomuxiong at gmx.com> wrote:
>>> On 03/22/2017 03:22 PM, Jon Ribbens wrote:
>>>> A simple table with a list of the library names, the debian package
>>>> names, and the rpm names would provide the information in a way that
>>>> would be useful to everyone.
>> A _simple_ table would be useful.  However, a _simple_ table is not
>> possible.
>>
>>> I definitely agree, but it would be kind of difficult to maintain. I
>>> mean if you supported debian and redhat (should others be
>>> considered?),
>> And you would need table for each _version_ of each distribution
>> (libraries sometimes get combined/renamed/split).
> Not really, that's why I suggested one of the fields in the table
> would be the standard library name - people should always be able
> to use that to find the appropriate package for their distribution
> (if there is one, otherwise they'll need to compile from source).
>
>> And you would need tables showing which libraires are required for
>> which Python features: tkinter is optional, crypto is optional (or at
>> least used to be), etc.
> That's a good idea - that would make the simple table have 4 columns:
> name, deb, rpm, python module (or "essential").

The information must be somewhere because Python must have been compiled 
frequently and correctly for the various (important) OSs before making 
it available to the public. And I do not think that it is left up to 
"your luck" that the required packages and libraries are present.

-- 

K.D.J.



From fabiofz at gmail.com  Thu Mar 23 08:00:15 2017
From: fabiofz at gmail.com (Fabio Zadrozny)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 09:00:15 -0300
Subject: PyDev 5.6.0 Released
Message-ID: <CANXBEFrZpeq1Vk8bm2rQUcnZMVvF=xD2c=d-GpaVGj5eoh2Vkg@mail.gmail.com>

PyDev 5.6.0 Release Highlights

   -

   *Important* PyDev now requires Java 8 and Eclipse 4.6 (Neon) onwards.
   - PyDev 5.2.0 is the last release supporting Eclipse 4.5 (Mars).
   -

   *Debugger*
   -

      *Performance* enhancements on the *debugger* (which should be
      *60%-100%* faster now).
      -

      The *debugger* now only supports *Python 2.6 onwards* (keep on PyDev
       5.5.0 for Python 2.5 or below).
      -

      Properly displaying variables when the *interactive console* is
      connected to a *debug session*. *#PyDev-776*
      -

      Providing a way for the debugger to support a user-specified version
      of Qt for debugging QThreads (*preferences > PyDev > Debug > Qt
      Threads*).
      -

      Fixed issue where a *native Qt signal is not callable* message was
      raised when connecting a signal to QThread.started.
      -

      Fixed issue in displaying variable (with *Ctrl+Shift+D*) when
      debugging.
      -

      Debug view toolbar icons no longer appearing stretched due to Set
      Next Statement icon having a different size.
      -

   *Code completion*
   -

      *super* is now properly recognized (code completion and find
      definition).
      -

      *pytest fixtures* are now properly recognized (code completion and
      find definition).
      -

      Suppress invalid completions on literals numbers (patch by Jonah
      Graham)
      -

   *Others*
   -

      It's now possible to save the PyUnit preferences to the project or
      user settings.
      -

      Upgraded *pep8* to the latest *pycodestyle*.
      -

      Upgraded to latest *autopep8*.
      -

      Fixed issue in Django shell if version >= 1.10 *#PyDev-752*.
      -

      Add support for *coverage 4.x* (minimum supported version is now
      4.3). *#PyDev-691*
      -

      Syntax highlighting for *matmul operator* (was being considered a
      decorator). *#PyDev-771*
      -

      Making *PyLint* use the same thread pool used for code analysis.
      -

      String index out of range while reading buffer in AbstractShell.
      *#PyDev-768*

What is PyDev?

PyDev is an open-source Python IDE on top of Eclipse for Python, Jython and
IronPython development.

It comes with goodies such as code completion, syntax highlighting, syntax
analysis, code analysis, refactor, debug, interactive console, etc.

Details on PyDev: http://pydev.org
Details on its development: http://pydev.blogspot.com
What is LiClipse?

LiClipse is a PyDev standalone with goodies such as support for Multiple
cursors, theming, TextMate bundles and a number of other languages such as
Django Templates, Jinja2, Kivy Language, Mako Templates, Html, Javascript,
etc.

It's also a commercial counterpart which helps supporting the development
of PyDev.

Details on LiClipse: http://www.liclipse.com/

Cheers,

--
Fabio Zadrozny
------------------------------

Software Developer

LiClipse
http://www.liclipse.com

PyDev - Python Development Environment for Eclipse
http://pydev.org
http://pydev.blogspot.com

PyVmMonitor - Python Profiler
http://www.pyvmmonitor.com/


From torriem at gmail.com  Thu Mar 23 10:26:40 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 08:26:40 -0600
Subject: Recompilation of Python3.6.x
In-Reply-To: <5d56bddc-cb65-e216-7a37-4e2d417dbb3e@mailbox.org>
References: <8e4af5bf-2e61-50ad-8300-233b4f14500e@mailbox.org>
 <d0560b85-1cd9-a976-b44c-150c43ad3faa@gmx.com>
 <mailman.28.1490204405.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnod5jtl.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <0394cba8-3d5c-399c-ae41-57adf280363b@gmx.com>
 <oaunpp$s4m$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.33.1490215567.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnod621m.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <5d56bddc-cb65-e216-7a37-4e2d417dbb3e@mailbox.org>
Message-ID: <e4c6af48-3825-bed4-573e-0a9674c1fe4c@gmail.com>

On 03/23/2017 01:45 AM, Klaus Jantzen wrote:
> The information must be somewhere because Python must have been compiled 
> frequently and correctly for the various (important) OSs before making 
> it available to the public. And I do not think that it is left up to 
> "your luck" that the required packages and libraries are present.

The information is essentially present in the recipe files that create
the binary packages.  As new versions come out, the distro maintainers
modify the recipe file (in the RPM world, that's a SPEC file,
distributed with the SRPM packages) when needed, based on trial and
error, and also on the release notes for the upstream project.

In SRPM spec files, there is a list of "build-requires" that list what
packages (usually -devel).

For Debian, as you've been told a while back, apt has a command to
install the dependencies needed to build something:

apt build-dep python3

After that, you can download the latest Python 3 debian source package,
and then modify it to build the newer tarball.

https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/ch-sourcehandling.en.html

So to answer your question, the list of what's required to build
something is built into the distro package system, and that's where it's
also maintained. Also the default build options for packages are set
there as well.




From tomuxiong at gmx.com  Thu Mar 23 10:47:14 2017
From: tomuxiong at gmx.com (Thomas Nyberg)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 10:47:14 -0400
Subject: Recompilation of Python3.6.x
In-Reply-To: <5d56bddc-cb65-e216-7a37-4e2d417dbb3e@mailbox.org>
References: <8e4af5bf-2e61-50ad-8300-233b4f14500e@mailbox.org>
 <d0560b85-1cd9-a976-b44c-150c43ad3faa@gmx.com>
 <mailman.28.1490204405.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnod5jtl.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <0394cba8-3d5c-399c-ae41-57adf280363b@gmx.com>
 <oaunpp$s4m$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.33.1490215567.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnod621m.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <5d56bddc-cb65-e216-7a37-4e2d417dbb3e@mailbox.org>
Message-ID: <3131e264-4361-33fd-94d8-b5b5464678dd@gmx.com>

On 03/23/2017 03:45 AM, Klaus Jantzen wrote:
> The information must be somewhere because Python must have been compiled
> frequently and correctly for the various (important) OSs before making
> it available to the public. And I do not think that it is left up to
> "your luck" that the required packages and libraries are present.
>

Of course it's true that people don't just compile things by luck, but 
it's also true that the issue is kind of beyond cpython. The best you 
could really expect is for cpython to say the following libraries with 
the following major numbers are required (possibly with links to the 
websites for the sources). It's out of the cpython programmers control 
how these libraries are made available on the many different systems and 
distributions that python is used on. If you use it on distro a and you 
want to compile it, it's basically your responsibility to figure out how 
to get the libraries.

So really the main conclusion is that you should probably figure out how 
to use your distribution wisely to find this information. For any 
systems providing something similar to apt-get build-dep it's pretty 
easy (which _is_ your situation and hence you have already solved your 
problem). For others...well if you choose to use such a system it's your 
responsibility.

As much as it was irritating not learning these tricks earlier, you do 
now know them and should be fine going forward...

Cheers,
Thomas


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Thu Mar 23 10:57:13 2017
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 14:57:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Recompilation of Python3.6.x
References: <8e4af5bf-2e61-50ad-8300-233b4f14500e@mailbox.org>
 <d0560b85-1cd9-a976-b44c-150c43ad3faa@gmx.com>
 <mailman.28.1490204405.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnod5jtl.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <0394cba8-3d5c-399c-ae41-57adf280363b@gmx.com>
 <oaunpp$s4m$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.33.1490215567.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnod621m.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <5d56bddc-cb65-e216-7a37-4e2d417dbb3e@mailbox.org>
Message-ID: <ob0no9$8tq$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 2017-03-23, Klaus Jantzen <k.d.jantzen at mailbox.org> wrote:

>>> And you would need tables showing which libraires are required for
>>> which Python features: tkinter is optional, crypto is optional (or
>>> at least used to be), etc.
>>
>> That's a good idea - that would make the simple table have 4
>> columns: name, deb, rpm, python module (or "essential").
>
> The information must be somewhere because Python must have been
> compiled frequently and correctly for the various (important) OSs
> before making it available to the public.

For CPython, the information about what libraries are required is in
the autoconf input files (e.g. configure.ac) in the CPython sources.

  http://www.gnu.org/software/autoconf/autoconf.html

How you locate information about what _packages_ those libraries are
in varies depending on which distro and packaging system are in use.

> And I do not think that it is left up to "your luck" that the
> required packages and libraries are present.

When CPython is packaged for a Linux distro, those options and library
depdencies are figured out and then encoded into the build scripts
that are used for the distros respective packaging systems (the
.ebuild file for Portage, the .spec file for RPM, the files inthe
./debian directory in a .deb package).

If you're building CPython, you have two choices:

 1) Use your distro's packaging system to build it.  That will insure
    that all the required libraries are built/installed.

 2) Build it using the normal untar-configure-make steps.  It may take
    many tries at the 'configure' step as you install required
    libraries until the configure script is happy.  _Usually_ once the
    configure step is done, the make shouldn't uncover any more
    missing libraries.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! When you get your
                                  at               PH.D. will you get able to
                              gmail.com            work at BURGER KING?



From p.f.moore at gmail.com  Thu Mar 23 11:56:31 2017
From: p.f.moore at gmail.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 08:56:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Manager for project templates,
 that allows "incremental" feature addition
In-Reply-To: <mailman.21.1490175666.2603.python-list@python.org>
References: <10cc3f5f-9345-4db7-846b-cd912a3771a9@googlegroups.com>
 <871stpzm23.fsf@metapensiero.it>
 <mailman.21.1490175666.2603.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <261b8b58-e013-4d76-9e30-3335dfcd0d54@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, 22 March 2017 09:41:21 UTC, Lele Gaifax  wrote:
> This what I wrote and heavily use
> 
>   https://pypi.python.org/pypi/metapensiero.tool.tinject
> 
> It seems to fit some, but not all, of your requested features.

Thanks - it looks like it could be very useful. I'll certainly give it a try!

Paul


From p.f.moore at gmail.com  Thu Mar 23 14:55:49 2017
From: p.f.moore at gmail.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:55:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Manager for project templates,
 that allows "incremental" feature addition
In-Reply-To: <261b8b58-e013-4d76-9e30-3335dfcd0d54@googlegroups.com>
References: <10cc3f5f-9345-4db7-846b-cd912a3771a9@googlegroups.com>
 <871stpzm23.fsf@metapensiero.it>
 <mailman.21.1490175666.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <261b8b58-e013-4d76-9e30-3335dfcd0d54@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a819e676-66a7-441b-ad4c-3518254a0fcb@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, 23 March 2017 15:56:43 UTC, Paul  Moore  wrote:
> On Wednesday, 22 March 2017 09:41:21 UTC, Lele Gaifax  wrote:
> > This what I wrote and heavily use
> > 
> >   https://pypi.python.org/pypi/metapensiero.tool.tinject
> > 
> > It seems to fit some, but not all, of your requested features.
> 
> Thanks - it looks like it could be very useful. I'll certainly give it a try!

Sadly, it doesn't support Windows, which is what I use. The "inquirer" dependency is the problem - it has a pinned dependency on an old version of readchar that has a bug (since fixed) on Windows, and it depends on blessings, which needs curses, which isn't in the stdlib on Windows, although I could get a 3rd party version.

Pity, as it looked very interesting.

Thanks anyway for the suggestion.
Paul


From lele at metapensiero.it  Thu Mar 23 18:08:33 2017
From: lele at metapensiero.it (Lele Gaifax)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 23:08:33 +0100
Subject: Manager for project templates,
 that allows "incremental" feature addition
References: <10cc3f5f-9345-4db7-846b-cd912a3771a9@googlegroups.com>
 <871stpzm23.fsf@metapensiero.it>
 <mailman.21.1490175666.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <261b8b58-e013-4d76-9e30-3335dfcd0d54@googlegroups.com>
 <a819e676-66a7-441b-ad4c-3518254a0fcb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87efxn7iji.fsf@metapensiero.it>

Paul  Moore <p.f.moore at gmail.com> writes:

> Sadly, it doesn't support Windows, which is what I use.

I'm sorry, there is little I can do on that front, but if you come up with an
alternative library, please let me know.

ciao, lele.
-- 
nickname: Lele Gaifax | Quando vivr? di quello che ho pensato ieri
real: Emanuele Gaifas | comincer? ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
lele at metapensiero.it  |                 -- Fortunato Depero, 1929.



From matt.mailinglists at gmail.com  Thu Mar 23 19:07:19 2017
From: matt.mailinglists at gmail.com (Matt)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 18:07:19 -0500
Subject: SNMP
Message-ID: <CAAOM8FUPtS1d_Fi2dcmGGWeKNfz2Fzz3W9Hj7_s7BqmmK81zDA@mail.gmail.com>

What is easiest way to read and write SNMP values with Python?


From jpolo at mail.usf.edu  Thu Mar 23 21:57:37 2017
From: jpolo at mail.usf.edu (john polo)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 20:57:37 -0500
Subject: syntax error in first-time user script
Message-ID: <eeb3ba4f-3338-4242-0b0e-57aa4b82b546@mail.usf.edu>

Greetings,
I am attempting to learn Python. I have no programming background. I'm 
on a computer with Windows 7. I checked the PATH in System Variables and 
Python and Python\Scripts are in the path. I have a book, Python for 
Biologists and it supplies example scripts, one is called comment.py. 
The output from comment.py is

Comments are very useful!

I use cd to get to the directory with the example scripts and open a 
command prompt with "python" and get the prompt. I type

"python comment.py"

and get

"    File "<stdin>", line 1
         python comment.py
                                     ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
"

Sorry, I realize this may not all line up like it does when I'm typing 
this in the email. The caret/error pointer is under the t in comment. I 
am not sure what is causing this error.

If I type

"import comment.py"

the output is

"Comments are very useful!
Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'comment.py'; 'comment'
"

If I use IDLE shell:

"python comment.py"

"SyntaxError: invalid syntax"

I know I can open the file in the editor and use F5, but shouldn't I be 
able to use a command from shell? How do I run comment.py from a command 
line without error? Or is that not possible?

cheers,
John


From dev at kou.li  Fri Mar 24 04:22:07 2017
From: dev at kou.li (Kouli)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 09:22:07 +0100
Subject: SNMP
In-Reply-To: <CAAOM8FUPtS1d_Fi2dcmGGWeKNfz2Fzz3W9Hj7_s7BqmmK81zDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAOM8FUPtS1d_Fi2dcmGGWeKNfz2Fzz3W9Hj7_s7BqmmK81zDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPgN8w+1ec+-_CVfZGNzOdtPDMM7Uaj3-Ytc1VMg2PSy8=Esdw@mail.gmail.com>

Have a look at https://snimpy.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 12:07 AM, Matt <matt.mailinglists at gmail.com> wrote:

> What is easiest way to read and write SNMP values with Python?
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Mar 24 05:36:07 2017
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 10:36:07 +0100
Subject: syntax error in first-time user script
References: <eeb3ba4f-3338-4242-0b0e-57aa4b82b546@mail.usf.edu>
Message-ID: <ob2pa5$t26$1@blaine.gmane.org>

john polo wrote:

> Greetings,
> I am attempting to learn Python. I have no programming background. I'm
> on a computer with Windows 7. I checked the PATH in System Variables and
> Python and Python\Scripts are in the path. I have a book, Python for
> Biologists and it supplies example scripts, one is called comment.py.
> The output from comment.py is
> 
> Comments are very useful!
> 
> I use cd to get to the directory with the example scripts and open a
> command prompt with "python" and get the prompt. I type
> 
> "python comment.py"
> 
> and get
> 
> "    File "<stdin>", line 1
>          python comment.py
>                                      ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax

First, welcome, and a big Thank You for providing the tracebacks!

After the

C:> cd

(the C:> is a placeholder for whatever prompt you see) do not invoke python 
without arguments, invoke it with the script name:

C:> python comment.py

> "
> 
> Sorry, I realize this may not all line up like it does when I'm typing
> this in the email. The caret/error pointer is under the t in comment. I
> am not sure what is causing this error.
> 
> If I type
> 
> "import comment.py"

In this case you are already running the Python interpreter (remember you 
invokded it with 

C:> python

) and that will successfully import the comment module (you must not give 
the .py extension, that's automatically added when the interpreter searches 
for the module) and then try to import the py submodule which fails (if 
there were such a module it would be in the file comment/py.py where comment 
is a directory and py both the filename and the extension).

> 
> the output is
> 
> "Comments are very useful!
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>      File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'comment.py'; 'comment'
> "
> 
> If I use IDLE shell:
> 
> "python comment.py"
> 
> "SyntaxError: invalid syntax"
> 
> I know I can open the file in the editor and use F5, but shouldn't I be
> able to use a command from shell? How do I run comment.py from a command
> line without error? Or is that not possible?
> 
> cheers,
> John




From mal at europython.eu  Fri Mar 24 06:49:17 2017
From: mal at europython.eu (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 12:49:17 +0200
Subject: EuroPython 2017: Get ready for EuroPython Call for Proposals
Message-ID: <aae7192f-47c8-0b8c-5f83-a3a6e242031a@europython.eu>

Thinking of giving your contribution to EuroPython? Starting from March
27th you can submit a proposal on every aspect of Python: programming
from novice to advanced levels, applications and frameworks, or how you
have been involved in introducing Python into your organization.

We offer a variety of different contribution formats that you can
present at EuroPython: from regular talks to panel discussions, from
trainings to posters; if you have ideas to promote real-time human-
to-human-interaction or want to run yourself a helpdesk to answer
other people?s python questions, this is your chance.

Read our different opportunities on our website

       https://ep2017.europython.eu/en/speakers/call-for-proposals/

and start drafting your ideas.

            *** Call for Proposals opens in just 3 days! ***

Enjoy,
--
EuroPython 2017 Team
http://ep2017.europython.eu/
http://www.europython-society.org/


PS: Please forward or retweet to help us reach all interested parties:
https://twitter.com/europython/status/845208294222368768
Thanks.



From lele at metapensiero.it  Fri Mar 24 07:51:02 2017
From: lele at metapensiero.it (Lele Gaifax)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 12:51:02 +0100
Subject: Manager for project templates,
 that allows "incremental" feature addition
References: <10cc3f5f-9345-4db7-846b-cd912a3771a9@googlegroups.com>
 <871stpzm23.fsf@metapensiero.it>
 <mailman.21.1490175666.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <261b8b58-e013-4d76-9e30-3335dfcd0d54@googlegroups.com>
 <a819e676-66a7-441b-ad4c-3518254a0fcb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87lgrugaft.fsf@metapensiero.it>

Paul  Moore <p.f.moore at gmail.com> writes:

> On Thursday, 23 March 2017 15:56:43 UTC, Paul  Moore  wrote:
>
> Sadly, it doesn't support Windows, which is what I use.

FYI, I just saw https://pypi.python.org/pypi/whaaaaat/0.4.0, that seems an
alternative port of Inquirer.js. Unfortunately it's Py2 only :-\

If you can try it under Windows, maybe I could be convinced in contributing
some Py3 compatibility fixes, and try to support that too in my tinject.

ciao, lele.
-- 
nickname: Lele Gaifax | Quando vivr? di quello che ho pensato ieri
real: Emanuele Gaifas | comincer? ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
lele at metapensiero.it  |                 -- Fortunato Depero, 1929.



From bgailer at gmail.com  Fri Mar 24 10:11:04 2017
From: bgailer at gmail.com (Bob Gailer)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 10:11:04 -0400
Subject: syntax error in first-time user script
In-Reply-To: <eeb3ba4f-3338-4242-0b0e-57aa4b82b546@mail.usf.edu>
References: <eeb3ba4f-3338-4242-0b0e-57aa4b82b546@mail.usf.edu>
Message-ID: <CAP1rxO49mPLhjpwC7sOyoAU4SOLyPPug2Cz+fj44=qRwzAeZ+A@mail.gmail.com>

On Mar 24, 2017 4:53 AM, "john polo" <jpolo at mail.usf.edu> wrote:
>
> Greetings,
> I am attempting to learn Python. I have no programming background. I'm on
a computer with Windows 7. I checked the PATH in System Variables and
Python and Python\Scripts are in the path. I have a book, Python for
Biologists and it supplies example scripts, one is called comment.py. The
output from comment.py is
>
> Comments are very useful!
>
> I use cd to get to the directory with the example scripts

We can assume you are at a Windows command prompt. It' a good idea too tell
us that,  so we don't have to assume!

and open a command prompt with "python" and get the prompt.

Assumptions / terminology again! Typing "python" normally invokes the
python interpreter. Since you did not pass any arguments you get a window
displaying the python interpreter prompt (>>>).

I type
>
> "python comment.py"
>
> and get
>
> "    File "<stdin>", line 1
>         python comment.py
>                                     ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax

It is great (as John said) that you provided the traceback. It would have
been even greater if you had given us the rest e.g,

Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.14393]
(c) 2016 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\bgailer>cd /examples

C:\examples>python
Python 3.3.5 (v3.3.5:62cf4e77f785, Mar  9 2014, 10:35:05) [MSC v.1600 64
bit (AMD64)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> python comment.py
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    python comment.py
                 ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>>

Which brings up one other important matter: when writing us also tell us
which python version you are using. In my example it is 3.3.5.
>
> Sorry, I realize this may not all line up like it does when I'm typing
this in the email. The caret/error pointer is under the t in comment. I am
not sure what is causing this error.
>
> If I type
>
> "import comment.py"
>
> the output is
>
> "Comments are very useful!
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>     File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'comment.py'; 'comment'
> "
>
> If I use IDLE shell:
>
> "python comment.py"
>
> "SyntaxError: invalid syntax"
>
> I know I can open the file in the editor and use F5, but shouldn't I be
able to use a command from shell? How do I run comment.py from a command
line without error? Or is that not possible?
>
> cheers,
> John
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From jpolo at mail.usf.edu  Fri Mar 24 10:33:11 2017
From: jpolo at mail.usf.edu (john polo)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 09:33:11 -0500
Subject: syntax error in first-time user script
In-Reply-To: <CAP1rxO49mPLhjpwC7sOyoAU4SOLyPPug2Cz+fj44=qRwzAeZ+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eeb3ba4f-3338-4242-0b0e-57aa4b82b546@mail.usf.edu>
 <CAP1rxO49mPLhjpwC7sOyoAU4SOLyPPug2Cz+fj44=qRwzAeZ+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c202f627-1dd2-3d2f-732f-41ce1099e7f9@mail.usf.edu>

On 3/24/2017 9:11 AM, Bob Gailer wrote:
>
> On Mar 24, 2017 4:53 AM, "john polo" <jpolo at mail.usf.edu 
> <mailto:jpolo at mail.usf.edu>> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings,
> > I am attempting to learn Python. I have no programming background. 
> I'm on a computer with Windows 7. I checked the PATH in System 
> Variables and Python and Python\Scripts are in the path. I have a 
> book, Python for Biologists and it supplies example scripts, one is 
> called comment.py. The output from comment.py is
> >
> > Comments are very useful!
> >
> > I use cd to get to the directory with the example scripts
>
> We can assume you are at a Windows command prompt. It' a good idea too 
> tell us that,  so we don't have to assume!
>
> and open a command prompt with "python" and get the prompt.
>
> Assumptions / terminology again! Typing "python" normally invokes the 
> python interpreter. Since you did not pass any arguments you get a 
> window displaying the python interpreter prompt (>>>).
>
> I type
> >
> > "python comment.py"
> >
> > and get
> >
> > "    File "<stdin>", line 1
> >         python comment.py
> >                                     ^
> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> It is great (as John said) that you provided the traceback. It would 
> have been even greater if you had given us the rest e.g,
>
> Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.14393]
> (c) 2016 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
>
> C:\Users\bgailer>cd /examples
>
> C:\examples>python
> Python 3.3.5 (v3.3.5:62cf4e77f785, Mar  9 2014, 10:35:05) [MSC v.1600 
> 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> python comment.py
>   File "<stdin>", line 1
>     python comment.py
>                  ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> >>>
>
> Which brings up one other important matter: when writing us also tell 
> us which python version you are using. In my example it is 3.3.5.
>
I'm using 3.6.0.

> >
> > Sorry, I realize this may not all line up like it does when I'm 
> typing this in the email. The caret/error pointer is under the t in 
> comment. I am not sure what is causing this error.
> >
> > If I type
> >
> > "import comment.py"
> >
> > the output is
> >
> > "Comments are very useful!
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >     File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> > ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'comment.py'; 'comment'
> > "
> >
> > If I use IDLE shell:
> >
> > "python comment.py"
> >
> > "SyntaxError: invalid syntax"
> >
> > I know I can open the file in the editor and use F5, but shouldn't I 
> be able to use a command from shell? How do I run comment.py from a 
> command line without error? Or is that not possible?
> >
> > cheers,
> > John
> > --
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 
> <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>


-- 
Men occasionally stumble
over the truth, but most of them
pick themselves up and hurry off
as if nothing had happened.
-- Winston Churchill



From abdul.sw84 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 24 12:08:34 2017
From: abdul.sw84 at gmail.com (Abdul Abdul)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 18:08:34 +0200
Subject: Python question
Message-ID: <CAA+hu4Woa_D8-=PGTLVZqsvr7U42uMeBfHCio+ZS1amCScCPDw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I hope you are doing fine. I have added a question on StackOverflow and
thought you might have an idea on it. This is the question
<https://stackoverflow.com/questions/42991477/python-structuring-a-file-similar-to-another-pickled-file>
.

Thanks a lot for your kind support.

Best,
Abder


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Mar 24 12:55:23 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 12:55:23 -0400
Subject: syntax error in first-time user script
In-Reply-To: <eeb3ba4f-3338-4242-0b0e-57aa4b82b546@mail.usf.edu>
References: <eeb3ba4f-3338-4242-0b0e-57aa4b82b546@mail.usf.edu>
Message-ID: <ob3j1m$gub$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 3/23/2017 9:57 PM, john polo wrote:

> If I use IDLE shell:
>
> "python comment.py"
>
> "SyntaxError: invalid syntax"

IDLE's Shell runs your input with nearly identical results as with the 
standard interactive interpreter, including exceptions.

> I know I can open the file in the editor and use F5, but shouldn't I be
> able to use a command from shell?

No.  You enter Python statements, not terminal commands.

 > How do I run comment.py from a command line without error?

At the Command Prompt window's prompt, such as 'C:\user\you>', enter

python path/to/comment.py

The path shown before the prompt char, '>', is the 'current working 
directory'.  Learn to use the 'cd' command.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From adam.c.bernier at kp.org  Fri Mar 24 14:42:44 2017
From: adam.c.bernier at kp.org (adam.c.bernier)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:42:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Subprocess .wait() is not waiting
Message-ID: <18a5c7e6-d7d2-4f69-8ef7-c1923cda5397@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am on Windows 7. Python 2.7

I'm trying to have a program run another program using `subprocess.Popen`

    import subprocess as sp

    args = shlex.split(args)
    proc = sp.Popen(args,stdout=sp.PIPE,stderr=sp.PIPE)
    out, err = proc.communicate()
    proc.wait()

But it *sometimes* doesn't wait and the other program -- which generates a set of 14 Excel files -- does not complete before control is returned to the calling program.

Any ideas on what I can do to make `subprocess.wait()` actually wait?

Thanks in advance for any assistance you might be able to provide.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Mar 24 15:35:15 2017
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:35:15 -0500
Subject: Surprised by the lack of constant folding
Message-ID: <20170324143515.76fb7b02@bigbox.christie.dr>

Playing around, I came across the following

$ python3
Python 3.4.2 (default, Oct  8 2014, 10:45:20) 
[GCC 4.9.1] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from dis import dis
>>> def f(x):
...     return x * 1024 * 1024
... 
>>> dis(f)
  2           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
              3 LOAD_CONST               1 (1024)
              6 BINARY_MULTIPLY
              7 LOAD_CONST               1 (1024)
             10 BINARY_MULTIPLY
             11 RETURN_VALUE

Is there any reason that Python doesn't do the constant folding of
1024 * 1024?  Especially as it does constant folding if the order is
reversed:

>>> def f(x):
...     return 1024 * 1024 * x
... 
>>> dis(f)
  2           0 LOAD_CONST               2 (1048576)
              3 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
              6 BINARY_MULTIPLY
              7 RETURN_VALUE


I'm cool with defining things as a constant and using those instead
or front-loading my constants in my expressions, but the disparity
struck me as a little odd.  Any insights on the reasons/motivations
for one and not the other?

-tkc





From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Mar 24 15:40:15 2017
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 13:40:15 -0600
Subject: Subprocess .wait() is not waiting
In-Reply-To: <18a5c7e6-d7d2-4f69-8ef7-c1923cda5397@googlegroups.com>
References: <18a5c7e6-d7d2-4f69-8ef7-c1923cda5397@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=Cw-s2k9neYfKuwKPfX=YYkgxxDibz0JcChBmeG1fSog@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 12:42 PM, adam.c.bernier <adam.c.bernier at kp.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am on Windows 7. Python 2.7
>
> I'm trying to have a program run another program using `subprocess.Popen`
>
>     import subprocess as sp
>
>     args = shlex.split(args)
>     proc = sp.Popen(args,stdout=sp.PIPE,stderr=sp.PIPE)
>     out, err = proc.communicate()
>     proc.wait()
>
> But it *sometimes* doesn't wait and the other program -- which generates a set of 14 Excel files -- does not complete before control is returned to the calling program.
>
> Any ideas on what I can do to make `subprocess.wait()` actually wait?
>
> Thanks in advance for any assistance you might be able to provide.

If that's what's happening it would be a bug. Are you sure that the
other program isn't simply crashing or otherwise failing to complete?

By the way, the wait in the code above is redundant because
communicate already waits.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Mar 24 15:49:13 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 06:49:13 +1100
Subject: Surprised by the lack of constant folding
In-Reply-To: <20170324143515.76fb7b02@bigbox.christie.dr>
References: <20170324143515.76fb7b02@bigbox.christie.dr>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmodN7vo-RFjHSPTDXXunzycsLX7M-0N2X=0wG2kJrgG2g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 6:35 AM, Tim Chase
<python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> $ python3
> Python 3.4.2 (default, Oct  8 2014, 10:45:20)
> [GCC 4.9.1] on linux
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> from dis import dis
>>>> def f(x):
> ...     return x * 1024 * 1024
> ...
>>>> dis(f)
>   2           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
>               3 LOAD_CONST               1 (1024)
>               6 BINARY_MULTIPLY
>               7 LOAD_CONST               1 (1024)
>              10 BINARY_MULTIPLY
>              11 RETURN_VALUE
>
> Is there any reason that Python doesn't do the constant folding of
> 1024 * 1024?  Especially as it does constant folding if the order is
> reversed:
>
>>>> def f(x):
> ...     return 1024 * 1024 * x
> ...
>>>> dis(f)
>   2           0 LOAD_CONST               2 (1048576)
>               3 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
>               6 BINARY_MULTIPLY
>               7 RETURN_VALUE
>
>
> I'm cool with defining things as a constant and using those instead
> or front-loading my constants in my expressions, but the disparity
> struck me as a little odd.  Any insights on the reasons/motivations
> for one and not the other?

The first example is:

(x * 1024) * 1024

The second is:

(1024 * 1024) * x

The first one can't be constant-folded without a semantic change
(Python can't know that x will always be a number, even if you do).
Suggestion: Use a different operator, which binds more tightly.

>>> def f(x):
...     return x * 2**20
...
>>> dis(f)
  2           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
              2 LOAD_CONST               3 (1048576)
              4 BINARY_MULTIPLY
              6 RETURN_VALUE

Since this evaluates as x * (2**20), it can be constant-folded.

ChrisA


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Mar 24 15:49:49 2017
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 13:49:49 -0600
Subject: Surprised by the lack of constant folding
In-Reply-To: <20170324143515.76fb7b02@bigbox.christie.dr>
References: <20170324143515.76fb7b02@bigbox.christie.dr>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmOk4uFpzXOXQY3bNcCB1dgrxNg1sRzsd_2OR8CFHnVmQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Tim Chase
<python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> Playing around, I came across the following
>
> $ python3
> Python 3.4.2 (default, Oct  8 2014, 10:45:20)
> [GCC 4.9.1] on linux
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> from dis import dis
>>>> def f(x):
> ...     return x * 1024 * 1024
> ...
>>>> dis(f)
>   2           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
>               3 LOAD_CONST               1 (1024)
>               6 BINARY_MULTIPLY
>               7 LOAD_CONST               1 (1024)
>              10 BINARY_MULTIPLY
>              11 RETURN_VALUE
>
> Is there any reason that Python doesn't do the constant folding of
> 1024 * 1024?

Because that expression is equivalent to (x * 1024) * 1024, not x *
(1024 * 1024).

If x is a built-in type like int or list then that may be equivalent
to x * 1048576, but the compiler can't know that x is necessarily one
of those things.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Mar 24 15:50:49 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 06:50:49 +1100
Subject: Subprocess .wait() is not waiting
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=Cw-s2k9neYfKuwKPfX=YYkgxxDibz0JcChBmeG1fSog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18a5c7e6-d7d2-4f69-8ef7-c1923cda5397@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzid=Cw-s2k9neYfKuwKPfX=YYkgxxDibz0JcChBmeG1fSog@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo9wtEbeS21U_kDdDce+t-KNnfXzRke60YEjNzJ4zhkNQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 6:40 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> If that's what's happening it would be a bug. Are you sure that the
> other program isn't simply crashing or otherwise failing to complete?
>

Or possibly is running asynchronously. Is this a GUI app? A lot of
Windows GUI programs don't wait when you invoke them.

ChrisA


From adam.c.bernier at kp.org  Fri Mar 24 15:55:14 2017
From: adam.c.bernier at kp.org (adam.c.bernier)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 12:55:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Subprocess .wait() is not waiting
In-Reply-To: <mailman.68.1490385052.2603.python-list@python.org>
References: <18a5c7e6-d7d2-4f69-8ef7-c1923cda5397@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzid=Cw-s2k9neYfKuwKPfX=YYkgxxDibz0JcChBmeG1fSog@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo9wtEbeS21U_kDdDce+t-KNnfXzRke60YEjNzJ4zhkNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1490385052.2603.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <592af9fc-e3c3-46cf-9d8d-0894078baa51@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 12:51:02 PM UTC-7, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 6:40 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> > If that's what's happening it would be a bug. Are you sure that the
> > other program isn't simply crashing or otherwise failing to complete?
> >
> 
> Or possibly is running asynchronously. Is this a GUI app? A lot of
> Windows GUI programs don't wait when you invoke them.
> 
> ChrisA

Aha! Since the Excel app is a GUI app it's not waiting is that right?


From adam.c.bernier at kp.org  Fri Mar 24 15:55:50 2017
From: adam.c.bernier at kp.org (adam.c.bernier)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 12:55:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Subprocess .wait() is not waiting
In-Reply-To: <592af9fc-e3c3-46cf-9d8d-0894078baa51@googlegroups.com>
References: <18a5c7e6-d7d2-4f69-8ef7-c1923cda5397@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzid=Cw-s2k9neYfKuwKPfX=YYkgxxDibz0JcChBmeG1fSog@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo9wtEbeS21U_kDdDce+t-KNnfXzRke60YEjNzJ4zhkNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1490385052.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <592af9fc-e3c3-46cf-9d8d-0894078baa51@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e9a5d039-3283-45ec-afec-ebdb7f3dcb8b@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 12:55:30 PM UTC-7, adam.c.bernier wrote:
> On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 12:51:02 PM UTC-7, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 6:40 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > If that's what's happening it would be a bug. Are you sure that the
> > > other program isn't simply crashing or otherwise failing to complete?
> > >
> > 
> > Or possibly is running asynchronously. Is this a GUI app? A lot of
> > Windows GUI programs don't wait when you invoke them.
> > 
> > ChrisA
> 
> Aha! Since the Excel app is a GUI app it's not waiting is that right?

If that's the case is there any workaround?


From adam.c.bernier at kp.org  Fri Mar 24 15:59:28 2017
From: adam.c.bernier at kp.org (adam.c.bernier)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 12:59:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Subprocess .wait() is not waiting
In-Reply-To: <mailman.65.1490384464.2603.python-list@python.org>
References: <18a5c7e6-d7d2-4f69-8ef7-c1923cda5397@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzid=Cw-s2k9neYfKuwKPfX=YYkgxxDibz0JcChBmeG1fSog@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.65.1490384464.2603.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f8c0f4cd-f803-4dac-bdca-0591676b356f@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 12:41:22 PM UTC-7, Ian wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 12:42 PM, adam.c.bernier <adam.c.bernier at kp.org> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am on Windows 7. Python 2.7
> >
> > I'm trying to have a program run another program using `subprocess.Popen`
> >
> >     import subprocess as sp
> >
> >     args = shlex.split(args)
> >     proc = sp.Popen(args,stdout=sp.PIPE,stderr=sp.PIPE)
> >     out, err = proc.communicate()
> >     proc.wait()
> >
> > But it *sometimes* doesn't wait and the other program -- which generates a set of 14 Excel files -- does not complete before control is returned to the calling program.
> >
> > Any ideas on what I can do to make `subprocess.wait()` actually wait?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any assistance you might be able to provide.
> 
> If that's what's happening it would be a bug. Are you sure that the
> other program isn't simply crashing or otherwise failing to complete?
> 
> By the way, the wait in the code above is redundant because
> communicate already waits.

Thank you for the comment about the wait being redundant. Much appreciated.


From duncan at invalid.invalid  Fri Mar 24 16:00:08 2017
From: duncan at invalid.invalid (duncan smith)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 20:00:08 +0000
Subject: Surprised by the lack of constant folding
In-Reply-To: <mailman.64.1490384129.2603.python-list@python.org>
References: <20170324143515.76fb7b02@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <mailman.64.1490384129.2603.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dVeBA.59574$_83.14247@fx07.iad>

On 24/03/17 19:35, Tim Chase wrote:
> Playing around, I came across the following
> 
> $ python3
> Python 3.4.2 (default, Oct  8 2014, 10:45:20) 
> [GCC 4.9.1] on linux
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> from dis import dis
>>>> def f(x):
> ...     return x * 1024 * 1024
> ... 
>>>> dis(f)
>   2           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
>               3 LOAD_CONST               1 (1024)
>               6 BINARY_MULTIPLY
>               7 LOAD_CONST               1 (1024)
>              10 BINARY_MULTIPLY
>              11 RETURN_VALUE
> 
> Is there any reason that Python doesn't do the constant folding of
> 1024 * 1024?  Especially as it does constant folding if the order is
> reversed:
> 
>>>> def f(x):
> ...     return 1024 * 1024 * x
> ... 
>>>> dis(f)
>   2           0 LOAD_CONST               2 (1048576)
>               3 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
>               6 BINARY_MULTIPLY
>               7 RETURN_VALUE
> 
> 
> I'm cool with defining things as a constant and using those instead
> or front-loading my constants in my expressions, but the disparity
> struck me as a little odd.  Any insights on the reasons/motivations
> for one and not the other?
> 
> -tkc
> 
> 
> 

Left to right evaluation? Depending on the type of x, x * 1024 * 1024
might not return the same result as x * (1024 * 1024). That's my guess.

Duncan


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Mar 24 16:09:35 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 07:09:35 +1100
Subject: Subprocess .wait() is not waiting
In-Reply-To: <e9a5d039-3283-45ec-afec-ebdb7f3dcb8b@googlegroups.com>
References: <18a5c7e6-d7d2-4f69-8ef7-c1923cda5397@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzid=Cw-s2k9neYfKuwKPfX=YYkgxxDibz0JcChBmeG1fSog@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo9wtEbeS21U_kDdDce+t-KNnfXzRke60YEjNzJ4zhkNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1490385052.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <592af9fc-e3c3-46cf-9d8d-0894078baa51@googlegroups.com>
 <e9a5d039-3283-45ec-afec-ebdb7f3dcb8b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq8Dr_do3qYBS_PQskChkdW2BhLQPdPHXP_Jp=L2TTNZA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 6:55 AM, adam.c.bernier <adam.c.bernier at kp.org> wrote:
> On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 12:55:30 PM UTC-7, adam.c.bernier wrote:
>> On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 12:51:02 PM UTC-7, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> > On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 6:40 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > If that's what's happening it would be a bug. Are you sure that the
>> > > other program isn't simply crashing or otherwise failing to complete?
>> > >
>> >
>> > Or possibly is running asynchronously. Is this a GUI app? A lot of
>> > Windows GUI programs don't wait when you invoke them.
>> >
>> > ChrisA
>>
>> Aha! Since the Excel app is a GUI app it's not waiting is that right?
>
> If that's the case is there any workaround?

Errr.... been a while since I messed with Windows.... from memory, I
think you can "start /wait programname" to make it wait?? Worth a try,
at least.

Otherwise, your best bet would be to wait in a completely different
way. Give the app a specific file name to use as a signal, and when
it's done, it should create that file. You then watch for that file,
and when it exists, you move on.

ChrisA


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Mar 24 16:24:05 2017
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:24:05 -0600
Subject: Subprocess .wait() is not waiting
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmq8Dr_do3qYBS_PQskChkdW2BhLQPdPHXP_Jp=L2TTNZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18a5c7e6-d7d2-4f69-8ef7-c1923cda5397@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzid=Cw-s2k9neYfKuwKPfX=YYkgxxDibz0JcChBmeG1fSog@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo9wtEbeS21U_kDdDce+t-KNnfXzRke60YEjNzJ4zhkNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1490385052.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <592af9fc-e3c3-46cf-9d8d-0894078baa51@googlegroups.com>
 <e9a5d039-3283-45ec-afec-ebdb7f3dcb8b@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmq8Dr_do3qYBS_PQskChkdW2BhLQPdPHXP_Jp=L2TTNZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmpQvK8dChrxx7U2JgQ7ejCdaoMGBt9GSEzDpaxpUuz7Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 6:55 AM, adam.c.bernier <adam.c.bernier at kp.org> wrote:
>> On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 12:55:30 PM UTC-7, adam.c.bernier wrote:
>>> On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 12:51:02 PM UTC-7, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> > On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 6:40 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > > If that's what's happening it would be a bug. Are you sure that the
>>> > > other program isn't simply crashing or otherwise failing to complete?
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > Or possibly is running asynchronously. Is this a GUI app? A lot of
>>> > Windows GUI programs don't wait when you invoke them.
>>> >
>>> > ChrisA
>>>
>>> Aha! Since the Excel app is a GUI app it's not waiting is that right?
>>
>> If that's the case is there any workaround?
>
> Errr.... been a while since I messed with Windows.... from memory, I
> think you can "start /wait programname" to make it wait?? Worth a try,
> at least.

start /wait is for batch scripts, specifically because by default
start doesn't wait on GUI programs. I'm pretty sure that
WaitForSingleObject (which Popen.wait uses) is perfectly capable of
waiting on GUI programs (I would even bet dollars for donuts that this
is exactly what start /wait does).

Another possibility is that the subprocess itself is creating its own
subprocesses and not waiting on them. If it terminates before its
children, the wait() call will finish even though work is still being
done.


From adam.c.bernier at kp.org  Fri Mar 24 16:35:14 2017
From: adam.c.bernier at kp.org (adam.c.bernier)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 13:35:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Subprocess .wait() is not waiting
In-Reply-To: <mailman.69.1490386179.2603.python-list@python.org>
References: <18a5c7e6-d7d2-4f69-8ef7-c1923cda5397@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzid=Cw-s2k9neYfKuwKPfX=YYkgxxDibz0JcChBmeG1fSog@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo9wtEbeS21U_kDdDce+t-KNnfXzRke60YEjNzJ4zhkNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1490385052.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <592af9fc-e3c3-46cf-9d8d-0894078baa51@googlegroups.com>
 <e9a5d039-3283-45ec-afec-ebdb7f3dcb8b@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmq8Dr_do3qYBS_PQskChkdW2BhLQPdPHXP_Jp=L2TTNZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.69.1490386179.2603.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40fa1f00-9c2a-4cb0-ab66-4d22d17699b0@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 1:09:49 PM UTC-7, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 6:55 AM, adam.c.bernier <adam.c.bernier at kp.org> wrote:
> > On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 12:55:30 PM UTC-7, adam.c.bernier wrote:
> >> On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 12:51:02 PM UTC-7, Chris Angelico wrote:
> >> > On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 6:40 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > If that's what's happening it would be a bug. Are you sure that the
> >> > > other program isn't simply crashing or otherwise failing to complete?
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > Or possibly is running asynchronously. Is this a GUI app? A lot of
> >> > Windows GUI programs don't wait when you invoke them.
> >> >
> >> > ChrisA
> >>
> >> Aha! Since the Excel app is a GUI app it's not waiting is that right?
> >
> > If that's the case is there any workaround?
> 
> Errr.... been a while since I messed with Windows.... from memory, I
> think you can "start /wait programname" to make it wait?? Worth a try,
> at least.
> 
> Otherwise, your best bet would be to wait in a completely different
> way. Give the app a specific file name to use as a signal, and when
> it's done, it should create that file. You then watch for that file,
> and when it exists, you move on.
> 
> ChrisA

Thank you! I will try the first answer here http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11615455/python-start-new-command-prompt-on-windows-and-wait-for-it-finish-exit and see where that gets me. Thanks again for your thoughts.


From eryksun at gmail.com  Fri Mar 24 16:36:56 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 20:36:56 +0000
Subject: Subprocess .wait() is not waiting
In-Reply-To: <18a5c7e6-d7d2-4f69-8ef7-c1923cda5397@googlegroups.com>
References: <18a5c7e6-d7d2-4f69-8ef7-c1923cda5397@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1ash_6xQOTv5TjVCj4m_6+WgBNvm1XRtyKtTLTy2m34vOg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 6:42 PM, adam.c.bernier <adam.c.bernier at kp.org> wrote:
>
> I am on Windows 7. Python 2.7
>
> I'm trying to have a program run another program using `subprocess.Popen`
>
>     import subprocess as sp
>
>     args = shlex.split(args)

Is this command supposed to run cross-platform? If not, then splitting
it into a list is pointless. Windows uses a comand-line string, and
Popen will just have to rebuild the command line from the list.

>     proc = sp.Popen(args,stdout=sp.PIPE,stderr=sp.PIPE)
>     out, err = proc.communicate()
>     proc.wait()
>
> But it *sometimes* doesn't wait and the other program -- which generates a set of
> 14 Excel files -- does not complete before control is returned to the calling program.
>
> Any ideas on what I can do to make `subprocess.wait()` actually wait?
>
> Thanks in advance for any assistance you might be able to provide.

Without knowing the command you're running, all we can do is
speculate. It could be that it's an application that uses a single
instance, in which case running another instance simply messages the
main process and then exits.


From adam.c.bernier at kp.org  Fri Mar 24 16:44:28 2017
From: adam.c.bernier at kp.org (adam.c.bernier)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 13:44:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Subprocess .wait() is not waiting
In-Reply-To: <mailman.71.1490387859.2603.python-list@python.org>
References: <18a5c7e6-d7d2-4f69-8ef7-c1923cda5397@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1ash_6xQOTv5TjVCj4m_6+WgBNvm1XRtyKtTLTy2m34vOg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.71.1490387859.2603.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0aef4047-57c3-42f4-a9af-83417151020c@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 1:37:49 PM UTC-7, eryk sun wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 6:42 PM, adam.c.bernier <adam.c.bernier at kp.org> wrote:
> >
> > I am on Windows 7. Python 2.7
> >
> > I'm trying to have a program run another program using `subprocess.Popen`
> >
> >     import subprocess as sp
> >
> >     args = shlex.split(args)
> 
> Is this command supposed to run cross-platform? If not, then splitting
> it into a list is pointless. Windows uses a comand-line string, and
> Popen will just have to rebuild the command line from the list.
> 
> >     proc = sp.Popen(args,stdout=sp.PIPE,stderr=sp.PIPE)
> >     out, err = proc.communicate()
> >     proc.wait()
> >
> > But it *sometimes* doesn't wait and the other program -- which generates a set of
> > 14 Excel files -- does not complete before control is returned to the calling program.
> >
> > Any ideas on what I can do to make `subprocess.wait()` actually wait?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any assistance you might be able to provide.
> 
> Without knowing the command you're running, all we can do is
> speculate. It could be that it's an application that uses a single
> instance, in which case running another instance simply messages the
> main process and then exits.

Thank you, eryk sun. The command is calling a Python script which makes calls to openpyxl to generate 14 Excel files.


From eryksun at gmail.com  Fri Mar 24 17:04:59 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 21:04:59 +0000
Subject: Subprocess .wait() is not waiting
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidmpQvK8dChrxx7U2JgQ7ejCdaoMGBt9GSEzDpaxpUuz7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18a5c7e6-d7d2-4f69-8ef7-c1923cda5397@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzid=Cw-s2k9neYfKuwKPfX=YYkgxxDibz0JcChBmeG1fSog@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo9wtEbeS21U_kDdDce+t-KNnfXzRke60YEjNzJ4zhkNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1490385052.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <592af9fc-e3c3-46cf-9d8d-0894078baa51@googlegroups.com>
 <e9a5d039-3283-45ec-afec-ebdb7f3dcb8b@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmq8Dr_do3qYBS_PQskChkdW2BhLQPdPHXP_Jp=L2TTNZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALwzidmpQvK8dChrxx7U2JgQ7ejCdaoMGBt9GSEzDpaxpUuz7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1aur7UL9YgMEsKmQyAjFPa5UXRagrus9jppnN_TdU7zwnQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 8:24 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Errr.... been a while since I messed with Windows.... from memory, I
>> think you can "start /wait programname" to make it wait?? Worth a try,
>> at least.
>
> start /wait is for batch scripts, specifically because by default
> start doesn't wait on GUI programs. I'm pretty sure that

In interactive mode, cmd waits on console programs but not GUI
programs. In a batch script or /c or /k command it always waits, in
which case `start` is required to run without waiting. The /w[ait]
option may be needed if you're using `start` for some other feature,
such as creating a new console or setting the CPU affinity. Otherwise
if you just need to wait in a batch script, then you probably don't
need `start /w`.


From eryksun at gmail.com  Fri Mar 24 17:26:16 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 21:26:16 +0000
Subject: Subprocess .wait() is not waiting
In-Reply-To: <0aef4047-57c3-42f4-a9af-83417151020c@googlegroups.com>
References: <18a5c7e6-d7d2-4f69-8ef7-c1923cda5397@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1ash_6xQOTv5TjVCj4m_6+WgBNvm1XRtyKtTLTy2m34vOg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.71.1490387859.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <0aef4047-57c3-42f4-a9af-83417151020c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1auh0K+7j96q4AF14nr2AMat_pDQo306B5Vbxm++jQKwHw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 8:44 PM, adam.c.bernier <adam.c.bernier at kp.org> wrote:
> On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 1:37:49 PM UTC-7, eryk sun wrote:
>
>> Without knowing the command you're running, all we can do is
>> speculate. It could be that it's an application that uses a single
>> instance, in which case running another instance simply messages the
>> main process and then exits.
>
> Thank you, eryk sun. The command is calling a Python script which makes calls to
> openpyxl to generate 14 Excel files.

openpyxl should do all of the work in the process that Popen is
waiting on. Is the command-line in `args` something like
"C:\Python27\python.exe path\to\script.py"?


From adam.c.bernier at kp.org  Fri Mar 24 17:28:53 2017
From: adam.c.bernier at kp.org (adam.c.bernier)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:28:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Subprocess .wait() is not waiting
In-Reply-To: <mailman.74.1490390819.2603.python-list@python.org>
References: <18a5c7e6-d7d2-4f69-8ef7-c1923cda5397@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1ash_6xQOTv5TjVCj4m_6+WgBNvm1XRtyKtTLTy2m34vOg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.71.1490387859.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <0aef4047-57c3-42f4-a9af-83417151020c@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1auh0K+7j96q4AF14nr2AMat_pDQo306B5Vbxm++jQKwHw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.74.1490390819.2603.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <12d88c43-8e83-43bc-b93f-43a5be009b40@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 2:27:09 PM UTC-7, eryk sun wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 8:44 PM, adam.c.bernier <adam.c.bernier at kp.org> wrote:
> > On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 1:37:49 PM UTC-7, eryk sun wrote:
> >
> >> Without knowing the command you're running, all we can do is
> >> speculate. It could be that it's an application that uses a single
> >> instance, in which case running another instance simply messages the
> >> main process and then exits.
> >
> > Thank you, eryk sun. The command is calling a Python script which makes calls to
> > openpyxl to generate 14 Excel files.
> 
> openpyxl should do all of the work in the process that Popen is
> waiting on. Is the command-line in `args` something like
> "C:\Python27\python.exe path\to\script.py"?

That's exactly right. 


From cs at zip.com.au  Fri Mar 24 19:09:52 2017
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:09:52 +1100
Subject: Python question
In-Reply-To: <CAA+hu4Woa_D8-=PGTLVZqsvr7U42uMeBfHCio+ZS1amCScCPDw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA+hu4Woa_D8-=PGTLVZqsvr7U42uMeBfHCio+ZS1amCScCPDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170324230952.GA75800@cskk.homeip.net>

On 24Mar2017 18:08, Abdul Abdul <abdul.sw84 at gmail.com> wrote:
>I hope you are doing fine. I have added a question on StackOverflow and
>thought you might have an idea on it. This is the question
><https://stackoverflow.com/questions/42991477/python-structuring-a-file-similar-to-another-pickled-file>

Hi Adbul,

Please just post the question here, with a nice descriptive Subject: line.

It is quite possible for people to be reading this list when they do not have 
web access (eg offline on a train, as I sometimes do) and it is anyway annoying 
to have to open a web browser to see what you are asking about, and doubly 
annoying to copy from that question into the list for replies.

Thank you,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>


From jobmattcon at gmail.com  Sat Mar 25 04:37:54 2017
From: jobmattcon at gmail.com (Ho Yeung Lee)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 01:37:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why and how to run forever and debug when error in for proc in
 psutil.process_iter()?
Message-ID: <71d1fddd-7fdf-4049-9e81-442d1f8b55f7@googlegroups.com>

expect below to run forever and keep running a fixed number of thread in python

would like to kill tasks when process connect internet except chrome
and explorer.exe

i do this because MalwareBytes can not disconnect these existing trojan when my notebook connect internet

after run a few minutes, the program stopped, but i have already kept create process, why the whole program end?

why and how to debug when error in for proc in psutil.process_iter()?


import os
import psutil
import multiprocessing
import time
import sys

def cleantask():
    p = os.popen("netstat -ano")
    while 1:
        line = p.readline()
        if "TCP" in line or "UDP" in line:
            linelist = line.split()
            if len(linelist) > 4:
                if "LISTEN" in str(linelist[3]):
                    for proc in psutil.process_iter():
                        try:
                            if "pop" not in str(proc.name).tolower():
                                os.system("taskkill /f /pid "+str(proc._pid))
                        except:
                            dummy = 1
                            #print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[0]
                            #print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[1]
                if "ESTABLISHED" in str(linelist[3]):
                    if "127.0.0.1" not in str(linelist[2]):
                        for proc in psutil.process_iter():
                            try:
                                if str(linelist[4]) in str(proc._pid):            
                                    print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+proc.name)
                                if "111.221" not in str(linelist[2]) and "explorer.exe" not in str(proc.name).tolower():
                                    os.system("taskkill /f /pid "+str(proc._pid))
                            except:
                                dummy = 1
                                #print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[0]
                                #print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[1]
                        print(line)
        if not line: break

if __name__ == '__main__':
    print("main")
    try:
        numberofrunning = 0
        plist = []
        for ii in range(0,5):  
            p = multiprocessing.Process(target=cleantask(), args=(0,))
            p.start()
            plist.append(p)
            numberofrunning = numberofrunning + 1
            time.sleep(1)
        for pp in plist:
            pp.join()
     	    if pp.is_alive() == False:
                numberofrunning = numberofrunning - 1
                plist.remove(pp)
            if numberofrunning > 10:
                print "more than 10 process"
            else:
                print("number of process = " + str(numberofrunning))
                if numberofrunning <= 5:
                    p = multiprocessing.Process(target=cleantask(), args=(0,))
                    p.start()
                    plist.append(p)
                    numberofrunning = numberofrunning + 1
                    time.sleep(1)
    except:
        print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[0]
        print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[1]


From jobmattcon at gmail.com  Sat Mar 25 04:41:47 2017
From: jobmattcon at gmail.com (Ho Yeung Lee)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 01:41:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: should i kill these two process with python?
Message-ID: <3cf0862c-1091-4290-b1e9-86759011c809@googlegroups.com>

  TCP    127.0.0.1:1663         127.0.0.1:28091        ESTABLISHED     9900
  TCP    127.0.0.1:28091        127.0.0.1:1663         ESTABLISHED     9532

above two process connect to itself, named ismagent and updateui.exe

are they the malware software?


  TCP    127.0.0.1:1663         127.0.0.1:28091        ESTABLISHED     9900
  TCP    127.0.0.1:7496         0.0.0.0:0              LISTENING       7496
  TCP    127.0.0.1:27015        0.0.0.0:0              LISTENING       9968
  TCP    127.0.0.1:28091        0.0.0.0:0              LISTENING       9532
  TCP    127.0.0.1:28091        127.0.0.1:1663         ESTABLISHED     9532
  TCP    127.0.0.1:43227        0.0.0.0:0              LISTENING       3772
  TCP    127.0.0.1:50000        0.0.0.0:0              LISTENING       9532
  TCP    192.168.1.102:1128     210.176.156.35:443     FIN_WAIT_2      5124
  TCP    192.168.1.102:1509     64.233.188.102:443     ESTABLISHED     6700
  TCP    192.168.1.102:1510     216.58.203.46:443      ESTABLISHED     6700
  TCP    192.168.1.102:1511     216.58.203.46:443      ESTABLISHED     6700
  TCP    192.168.1.102:1512     216.58.200.5:443       ESTABLISHED     6700
  TCP    192.168.1.102:1513     172.217.26.195:443     ESTABLISHED     6700
  TCP    192.168.1.102:1514     172.217.26.195:443     CLOSE_WAIT      6700
  TCP    192.168.1.102:1898     111.221.29.156:443     ESTABLISHED     1544


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Mar 25 04:52:33 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 19:52:33 +1100
Subject: should i kill these two process with python?
In-Reply-To: <3cf0862c-1091-4290-b1e9-86759011c809@googlegroups.com>
References: <3cf0862c-1091-4290-b1e9-86759011c809@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmorWQUuoQYsW1HZpwMkmSrcdLVHQXE5kzFUXNW3jgYjxA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 7:41 PM, Ho Yeung Lee <jobmattcon at gmail.com> wrote:
>   TCP    127.0.0.1:1663         127.0.0.1:28091        ESTABLISHED     9900
>   TCP    127.0.0.1:28091        127.0.0.1:1663         ESTABLISHED     9532
>
> above two process connect to itself, named ismagent and updateui.exe
>
> are they the malware software?
>
>
>   TCP    127.0.0.1:1663         127.0.0.1:28091        ESTABLISHED     9900
>   TCP    127.0.0.1:7496         0.0.0.0:0              LISTENING       7496
>   TCP    127.0.0.1:27015        0.0.0.0:0              LISTENING       9968
>   TCP    127.0.0.1:28091        0.0.0.0:0              LISTENING       9532
>   TCP    127.0.0.1:28091        127.0.0.1:1663         ESTABLISHED     9532
>   TCP    127.0.0.1:43227        0.0.0.0:0              LISTENING       3772
>   TCP    127.0.0.1:50000        0.0.0.0:0              LISTENING       9532
>   TCP    192.168.1.102:1128     210.176.156.35:443     FIN_WAIT_2      5124
>   TCP    192.168.1.102:1509     64.233.188.102:443     ESTABLISHED     6700
>   TCP    192.168.1.102:1510     216.58.203.46:443      ESTABLISHED     6700
>   TCP    192.168.1.102:1511     216.58.203.46:443      ESTABLISHED     6700
>   TCP    192.168.1.102:1512     216.58.200.5:443       ESTABLISHED     6700
>   TCP    192.168.1.102:1513     172.217.26.195:443     ESTABLISHED     6700
>   TCP    192.168.1.102:1514     172.217.26.195:443     CLOSE_WAIT      6700
>   TCP    192.168.1.102:1898     111.221.29.156:443     ESTABLISHED     1544

This question is about systems administration and has nothing to do with Python.

To figure out what each connection represents, you'll have to figure
out what programs are on the two ends. (In the case of listening
sockets, figure out which program is listening.) Then research what's
actually being done by those programs. A simple dump like this is not
going to tell you much about whether it's malware.

ChrisA


From dieter at handshake.de  Sat Mar 25 05:10:35 2017
From: dieter at handshake.de (dieter)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:10:35 +0100
Subject: Python question
References: <CAA+hu4Woa_D8-=PGTLVZqsvr7U42uMeBfHCio+ZS1amCScCPDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87tw6hu3g4.fsf@handshake.de>

Abdul Abdul <abdul.sw84 at gmail.com> writes:
> I hope you are doing fine. I have added a question on StackOverflow and
> thought you might have an idea on it. This is the question
> <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/42991477/python-structuring-a-file-similar-to-another-pickled-file>

I do not want to go into the details of your concrete problem --
just give some general remarks about "pickle".

"pickle" is used for serialization/deserialization of (most) Python objects:
i.e. it can transform a Python object into a string (called a "pickle")
and (later) reconstruct the object from the pickle.

You should not be interested in the internal pickle structure --
keep at the Python level.


For your concrete problem: unpickle your pickle file to get
a Python object; construct a similar Python object with the new data;
pickle that Python object.



From steve+python at pearwood.info  Sat Mar 25 06:50:17 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 21:50:17 +1100
Subject: Python question
References: <CAA+hu4Woa_D8-=PGTLVZqsvr7U42uMeBfHCio+ZS1amCScCPDw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170324230952.GA75800@cskk.homeip.net>
 <mailman.75.1490398280.2603.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58d64b6b$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:09 am, Cameron Simpson wrote:

> On 24Mar2017 18:08, Abdul Abdul <abdul.sw84 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>I hope you are doing fine. I have added a question on StackOverflow and
>>thought you might have an idea on it. This is the question
>><https://stackoverflow.com/questions/42991477/python-structuring-a-file-similar-to-another-pickled-file>
> 
> Hi Adbul,
> 
> Please just post the question here, with a nice descriptive Subject: line.
> 
> It is quite possible for people to be reading this list when they do not
> have web access (eg offline on a train, as I sometimes do) and it is
> anyway annoying to have to open a web browser to see what you are asking
> about, and doubly annoying to copy from that question into the list for
> replies.


I solve that problem by hitting Delete on the original post, ESPECIALLY if
they BCC or CC me without a good excuse. As I was in this case: the OP
BCCed me in his post. I'm not *that* special, so my guess is that he did a
mass BCC of many regulars here, which makes this spam.

Judging from the question on Stackoverflow, I think he's just trying to
drive eyeballs to the question so he can get higher reputation. It is a
silly question: he says he has a pickle file containing an image file, and
he's asking (1) what's in the pickle file, and (2) how can he create an
identical pickle file containing a different image.

The answer to (1) is "Whatever you put in it".

Or possibly malware: he links to an actual pickle file he has put up on-line
somewhere. Anyone brave enough to unpickle it in a sandbox and report on
whether it contains what he says it contains? Remember that pickles can
contain arbitrary executable code.




-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sat Mar 25 10:38:56 2017
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 08:38:56 -0600
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <85inn2f6av.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmoXxZt=TmLh7vjAkJMDR8d0dj6wc=2E5WBYipbEPXSm8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.88.1490036490.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <0ridndb9eIgmukzFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@giganews.com>
 <871stqzqza.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAE6NSRBLg6Z+qfDHVt3b+Hd1W6U+dXNCgsTX0dcYjTbj+MX5wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <509d90d6-d0b3-b430-9e94-437c23589c48@gmail.com>
 <mailman.0.1490110981.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnod2k5i.40g.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
 <oarjst$bfs$1@blaine.gmane.org> <85inn2f6av.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=PFf19Aq42ZvjGcQ_uCqQXfxBofUviPFnUyqXS2NSBOw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 7:28 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Question: is it still successfull trolling if we all knew that was the
>> intent and are just playing along for the entertainment value?
>
> Yes, it creates more noise and drives away signal from people who don't
> want to be in a noisy environment. That is success for the troll.

+1. Arguing with trolls is like tic-tac-toe or global thermonuclear
war: the only way to win is not to play.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Mar 25 16:10:35 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 16:10:35 -0400
Subject: Python question
In-Reply-To: <58d64b6b$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CAA+hu4Woa_D8-=PGTLVZqsvr7U42uMeBfHCio+ZS1amCScCPDw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170324230952.GA75800@cskk.homeip.net>
 <mailman.75.1490398280.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <58d64b6b$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <ob6irm$dif$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 3/25/2017 6:50 AM, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:09 am, Cameron Simpson wrote:
>
>> On 24Mar2017 18:08, Abdul Abdul <abdul.sw84 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I hope you are doing fine. I have added a question on StackOverflow and
>>> thought you might have an idea on it. This is the question
>>> <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/42991477/python-structuring-a-file-similar-to-another-pickled-file>
>>
>> Hi Adbul,
>>
>> Please just post the question here, with a nice descriptive Subject: line.
>>
>> It is quite possible for people to be reading this list when they do not
>> have web access (eg offline on a train, as I sometimes do) and it is
>> anyway annoying to have to open a web browser to see what you are asking
>> about, and doubly annoying to copy from that question into the list for
>> replies.
>
>
> I solve that problem by hitting Delete on the original post, ESPECIALLY if
> they BCC or CC me without a good excuse. As I was in this case: the OP
> BCCed me in his post. I'm not *that* special, so my guess is that he did a
> mass BCC of many regulars here, which makes this spam.

I got the BCC also and was puzzled why.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Mar 25 16:26:24 2017
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 20:26:24 +0000
Subject: Python question
In-Reply-To: <ob6irm$dif$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <CAA+hu4Woa_D8-=PGTLVZqsvr7U42uMeBfHCio+ZS1amCScCPDw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170324230952.GA75800@cskk.homeip.net>
 <mailman.75.1490398280.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <58d64b6b$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ob6irm$dif$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <286b5eea-6586-69ae-580c-87901becf165@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2017-03-25 20:10, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 3/25/2017 6:50 AM, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:09 am, Cameron Simpson wrote:
>>
>>> On 24Mar2017 18:08, Abdul Abdul <abdul.sw84 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I hope you are doing fine. I have added a question on StackOverflow and
>>>> thought you might have an idea on it. This is the question
>>>> <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/42991477/python-structuring-a-file-similar-to-another-pickled-file>
>>>
>>> Hi Adbul,
>>>
>>> Please just post the question here, with a nice descriptive Subject: line.
>>>
>>> It is quite possible for people to be reading this list when they do not
>>> have web access (eg offline on a train, as I sometimes do) and it is
>>> anyway annoying to have to open a web browser to see what you are asking
>>> about, and doubly annoying to copy from that question into the list for
>>> replies.
>>
>>
>> I solve that problem by hitting Delete on the original post, ESPECIALLY if
>> they BCC or CC me without a good excuse. As I was in this case: the OP
>> BCCed me in his post. I'm not *that* special, so my guess is that he did a
>> mass BCC of many regulars here, which makes this spam.
>
> I got the BCC also and was puzzled why.
>
Same here.



From jpolo at mail.usf.edu  Sat Mar 25 17:45:12 2017
From: jpolo at mail.usf.edu (john polo)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 16:45:12 -0500
Subject: syntax error in first-time user script
In-Reply-To: <mailman.30.1490457604.31483.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.30.1490457604.31483.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <55f70962-79fe-715a-e7fa-c72770cef370@mail.usf.edu>

I had a misconception of how the Python interpreter works. If I have a 
script, call it example.py, in order to run it, I shouldn't be in the 
interpreter? In other words, I should be at the Windows command prompt, 
for example

C:/test> python example.py

and not

 >>> python example.py

?

So, if I am already on >>> and have a problem with a script and need to 
edit it and want to run the script again, how do I do that? Do I exit 
the interpreter and start it again? Or is there a different way to run 
the script once the interpreter is active and I am at >>> ?

Cheers,
John


From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Sat Mar 25 18:32:55 2017
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 18:32:55 -0400
Subject: PEOPLE! PLEASE! [ WAS: Re: Who are the "spacists"? ]
In-Reply-To: <MIzBA.183253$ft5.114239@fx16.am4>
References: <MIzBA.183253$ft5.114239@fx16.am4>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+wHfH=9Xqbazb9XUrz1NEYdCTvTMKmgUFGzD2PQqnXeFA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 3:40 PM, Gilmeh Serda
<gilmeh.serdah at nothing.here.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> So Python supports both spaces and tabs for indentation.
>
> People!
>
> This is as far from normal conversation about Python as it gets!
>
> Keep this shit to yourselves, PLEASE!
>
> Using an editor worth the name, makes it a non issue (since it can
> convert between one and the other, Eclipse/LiClipse comes to mind). Get
> real, and think before you post/send!
>
> --
> Gilmeh
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

+1


-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


From torriem at gmail.com  Sat Mar 25 19:01:49 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 17:01:49 -0600
Subject: PEOPLE! PLEASE! [ WAS: Re: Who are the "spacists"? ]
In-Reply-To: <MIzBA.183253$ft5.114239@fx16.am4>
References: <MIzBA.183253$ft5.114239@fx16.am4>
Message-ID: <d782d788-b1bb-1d43-6526-027a778cff70@gmail.com>

On 03/25/2017 01:40 PM, Gilmeh Serda wrote:
> 
>>> So Python supports both spaces and tabs for indentation.
> 
> People!
> 
> This is as far from normal conversation about Python as it gets!
> 
> Keep this shit to yourselves, PLEASE!
> 
> Using an editor worth the name, makes it a non issue (since it can 
> convert between one and the other, Eclipse/LiClipse comes to mind). Get 
> real, and think before you post/send!

I agree, although this thread had pretty much died on its own before you
posted to it. Our troll seems to have slunk off, having done his
trolling.  Peace had returned it seemed.  Unless the mailing list mods
finally banned the guy... either way I haven't seen any posts in a while.

Also USENET has a long tradition of killfiles. And entire threads can be
muted on most clients, including e-mail clients. I recommend you and
everyone else use these tools.



From python at lucidity.plus.com  Sat Mar 25 20:11:42 2017
From: python at lucidity.plus.com (Erik)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 00:11:42 +0000
Subject: Python question
In-Reply-To: <286b5eea-6586-69ae-580c-87901becf165@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <CAA+hu4Woa_D8-=PGTLVZqsvr7U42uMeBfHCio+ZS1amCScCPDw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170324230952.GA75800@cskk.homeip.net>
 <mailman.75.1490398280.2603.python-list@python.org>
 <58d64b6b$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ob6irm$dif$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <286b5eea-6586-69ae-580c-87901becf165@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <ce25d780-ccff-5be8-8d2c-07cbe792b5a0@lucidity.plus.com>

On 25/03/17 20:26, MRAB wrote:
> On 2017-03-25 20:10, Terry Reedy wrote:
>> On 3/25/2017 6:50 AM, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>>> they BCC or CC me without a good excuse. As I was in this case: the OP
>>> BCCed me in his post. I'm not *that* special, so my guess is that he
>>> did a
>>> mass BCC of many regulars here, which makes this spam.
>>
>> I got the BCC also and was puzzled why.
>>
> Same here.

Me too, and I'm hardly a prolific poster compared to some of you lot.

E.


From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Sat Mar 25 20:24:34 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 01:24:34 +0100
Subject: PEOPLE! PLEASE! [ WAS: Re: Who are the "spacists"? ]
In-Reply-To: <d782d788-b1bb-1d43-6526-027a778cff70@gmail.com>
References: <MIzBA.183253$ft5.114239@fx16.am4>
 <d782d788-b1bb-1d43-6526-027a778cff70@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRC=yS+4HDFZ3JMonBFdpX0LHQ67OZ8dia_e3P=atM+tow@mail.gmail.com>

On 26 March 2017 at 00:01, Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 03/25/2017 01:40 PM, Gilmeh Serda wrote:
>>
>>>> So Python supports both spaces and tabs for indentation.
>>
>> People!
>>
>> This is as far from normal conversation about Python as it gets!
>>
>> Keep this shit to yourselves, PLEASE!
>>
>> Using an editor worth the name, makes it a non issue (since it can
>> convert between one and the other, Eclipse/LiClipse comes to mind). Get
>> real, and think before you post/send!
>
> I agree, although this thread had pretty much died on its own before you
> posted to it. Our troll seems to have slunk off, having done his
> trolling.  Peace had returned it seemed.  Unless the mailing list mods
> finally banned the guy... either way I haven't seen any posts in a while.

Oh don't turn it into drama please, it was interesting discussion.
Sad is that many are more in sociology than technology.


From abdul.sw84 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 25 20:31:17 2017
From: abdul.sw84 at gmail.com (Abdul Abdul)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 02:31:17 +0200
Subject: Python question
In-Reply-To: <20170324230952.GA75800@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <CAA+hu4Woa_D8-=PGTLVZqsvr7U42uMeBfHCio+ZS1amCScCPDw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170324230952.GA75800@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <CAA+hu4XRWG+xVEBcavUBH8RMLFFCissD0pWvGevHTmCZgVkiaA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Cameron,

Thanks for your kind reply and suggestion. Sure, please find my question
below. I also show the different edits made and what errors emerged after
those edits. Thanks for your support!

I have the following code portion for a convolutional neural network:

    import numpy as np
    import matplotlib.pyplot as plt
    import cifar_tools
    import tensorflow as tf

    data, labels = cifar_tools.read_data('C:\\Users\\abc\\Desktop\\temp')

    x = tf.placeholder(tf.float32, [None, 150 * 150])
    y = tf.placeholder(tf.float32, [None, 2])

    w1 = tf.Variable(tf.random_normal([5, 5, 1, 64]))
    b1 = tf.Variable(tf.random_normal([64]))

    w2 = tf.Variable(tf.random_normal([5, 5, 64, 64]))
    b2 = tf.Variable(tf.random_normal([64]))

    w3 = tf.Variable(tf.random_normal([6*6*64, 1024]))
    b3 = tf.Variable(tf.random_normal([1024]))

    w_out = tf.Variable(tf.random_normal([1024, 2]))
    b_out = tf.Variable(tf.random_normal([2]))

    def conv_layer(x,w,b):
    conv = tf.nn.conv2d(x,w,strides=[1,1,1,1], padding = 'SAME')
    conv_with_b = tf.nn.bias_add(conv,b)
    conv_out = tf.nn.relu(conv_with_b)
    return conv_out

    def maxpool_layer(conv,k=2):
    return tf.nn.max_pool(conv, ksize=[1,k,k,1], strides=[1,k,k,1],
padding='SAME')

    def model():
    x_reshaped = tf.reshape(x, shape=[-1,150,150,1])

    conv_out1 = conv_layer(x_reshaped, w1, b1)
    maxpool_out1 = maxpool_layer(conv_out1)
    norm1 = tf.nn.lrn(maxpool_out1, 4, bias=1.0, alpha=0.001/9.0, beta=0.75)

    conv_out2 = conv_layer(norm1, w2, b2)
    maxpool_out2 = maxpool_layer(conv_out2)
    norm2 = tf.nn.lrn(maxpool_out2, 4, bias=1.0, alpha=0.001/9.0, beta=0.75)

    maxpool_reshaped = tf.reshape(maxpool_out2,
[-1,w3.get_shape().as_list()[0]])
    local = tf.add(tf.matmul(maxpool_reshaped, w3), b3)
    local_out = tf.nn.relu(local)

    out = tf.add(tf.matmul(local_out, w_out), b_out)
    return out

    model_op = model()

    cost = tf.reduce_mean(tf.nn.softmax_cross_entropy_with_logits(model_op,
y))
    train_op = tf.train.AdamOptimizer(learning_rate=0.001).minimize(cost)

    correct_pred = tf.equal(tf.argmax(model_op, 1), tf.argmax(y,1))
    accuracy = tf.reduce_mean(tf.cast(correct_pred,tf.float32))

I'm reading `150x150` grayscale images, but couldn't understand the
following error I'm having:

    EPOCH 0
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\client\session.py", line
1021, in _do_call
        return fn(*args)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\client\session.py", line
1003, in _run_fn
        status, run_metadata)
      File "C:\Python35\lib\contextlib.py", line 66, in __exit__
        next(self.gen)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\framework\errors_impl.py",
line 469, in raise_exception_on_not_ok_status
        pywrap_tensorflow.TF_GetCode(status))
    tensorflow.python.framework.errors_impl.InvalidArgumentError: Input to
reshape is a tensor with 92416 values, but the requested shape requires a
multiple of 2304
             [[Node: Reshape_1 = Reshape[T=DT_FLOAT, Tshape=DT_INT32,
_device="/job:localhost/replica:0/task:0/cpu:0"](MaxPool_1,
Reshape_1/shape)]]

    During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "cnn.py", line 70, in <module>
        _, accuracy_val = sess.run([train_op, accuracy], feed_dict={x:
batch_data, y: batch_onehot_vals})
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\client\session.py", line
766, in run
        run_metadata_ptr)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\client\session.py", line
964, in _run
        feed_dict_string, options, run_metadata)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\client\session.py", line
1014, in _do_run
        target_list, options, run_metadata)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\client\session.py", line
1034, in _do_call
        raise type(e)(node_def, op, message)
    tensorflow.python.framework.errors_impl.InvalidArgumentError: Input to
reshape is a tensor with 92416 values, but the requested shape requires a
multiple of 2304
             [[Node: Reshape_1 = Reshape[T=DT_FLOAT, Tshape=DT_INT32,
_device="/job:localhost/replica:0/task:0/cpu:0"](MaxPool_1,
Reshape_1/shape)]]

    Caused by op 'Reshape_1', defined at:
      File "cnn.py", line 50, in <module>
        model_op = model()
      File "cnn.py", line 43, in model
        maxpool_reshaped = tf.reshape(maxpool_out2,
[-1,w3.get_shape().as_list()[0]])
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\ops\gen_array_ops.py",
line 2448, in reshape
        name=name)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\framework\op_def_library.py",
line 759, in apply_op
        op_def=op_def)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\framework\ops.py", line
2240, in create_op
        original_op=self._default_original_op, op_def=op_def)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\framework\ops.py", line
1128, in __init__
        self._traceback = _extract_stack()

    InvalidArgumentError (see above for traceback): Input to reshape is a
tensor with 92416 values, but the requested shape requires a multiple of
2304
             [[Node: Reshape_1 = Reshape[T=DT_FLOAT, Tshape=DT_INT32,
_device="/job:localhost/replica:0/task:0/cpu:0"](MaxPool_1,
Reshape_1/shape)]]

**EDIT-1**

Got this new error after modifying based on those edits:

    x_reshaped = tf.reshape(x, shape=[-1,150,150,1])
    batch_size = x_reshaped.get_shape().as_list()[0]

    ... Same code as above ...

    maxpool_reshaped = tf.reshape(maxpool_out2, [batch_size, -1])

Error:

    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "cnn.py", line 52, in <module>
        model_op = model()
      File "cnn.py", line 45, in model
        maxpool_reshaped = tf.reshape(maxpool_out2, [batch_size, -1])
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\ops\gen_array_ops.py",
line 2448, in reshape
        name=name)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\framework\op_def_library.py",
line 493, in apply_op
        raise err
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\framework\op_def_library.py",
line 490, in apply_op
        preferred_dtype=default_dtype)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\framework\ops.py", line
669, in convert_to_tensor
        ret = conversion_func(value, dtype=dtype, name=name, as_ref=as_ref)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\framework\constant_op.py",
line 176, in _constant_tensor_conversion_function
        return constant(v, dtype=dtype, name=name)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\framework\constant_op.py",
line 165, in constant
        tensor_util.make_tensor_proto(value, dtype=dtype, shape=shape,
verify_shape=verify_shape))
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\framework\tensor_util.py",
line 441, in make_tensor_proto
        tensor_proto.string_val.extend([compat.as_bytes(x) for x in
proto_values])
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\framework\tensor_util.py",
line 441, in <listcomp>
        tensor_proto.string_val.extend([compat.as_bytes(x) for x in
proto_values])
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\util\compat.py", line 65,
in as_bytes
        (bytes_or_text,))
    TypeError: Expected binary or unicode string, got None

**EDIT-2**

After doing the following edits (in addtion to removing `batch_size`:

    w3 = tf.Variable(tf.random_normal([361, 256]))
    ...
    ...
    w_out = tf.Variable(tf.random_normal([256, 2]))


I'm having the following error:

    EPOCH 0
    W
c:\tf_jenkins\home\workspace\release-win\device\cpu\os\windows\tensorflow\core\framework\op_kernel.cc:975]
Invalid argument: logits and labels must be same size: logits_size=[256,2]
labels_size=[1,2]
             [[Node: SoftmaxCrossEntropyWithLogits =
SoftmaxCrossEntropyWithLogits[T=DT_FLOAT,
_device="/job:localhost/replica:0/task:0/cpu:0"](Reshape_2, Reshape_3)]]
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\client\session.py", line
1021, in _do_call
        return fn(*args)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\client\session.py", line
1003, in _run_fn
        status, run_metadata)
      File "C:\Python35\lib\contextlib.py", line 66, in __exit__
        next(self.gen)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\framework\errors_impl.py",
line 469, in raise_exception_on_not_ok_status
        pywrap_tensorflow.TF_GetCode(status))
    tensorflow.python.framework.errors_impl.InvalidArgumentError: logits
and labels must be same size: logits_size=[256,2] labels_size=[1,2]
             [[Node: SoftmaxCrossEntropyWithLogits =
SoftmaxCrossEntropyWithLogits[T=DT_FLOAT,
_device="/job:localhost/replica:0/task:0/cpu:0"](Reshape_2, Reshape_3)]]

    During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "cnn.py", line 73, in <module>
        _, accuracy_val = sess.run([train_op, accuracy], feed_dict={x:
batch_data, y: batch_onehot_vals})
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\client\session.py", line
766, in run
        run_metadata_ptr)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\client\session.py", line
964, in _run
        feed_dict_string, options, run_metadata)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\client\session.py", line
1014, in _do_run
        target_list, options, run_metadata)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\client\session.py", line
1034, in _do_call
        raise type(e)(node_def, op, message)
    tensorflow.python.framework.errors_impl.InvalidArgumentError: logits
and labels must be same size: logits_size=[256,2] labels_size=[1,2]
             [[Node: SoftmaxCrossEntropyWithLogits =
SoftmaxCrossEntropyWithLogits[T=DT_FLOAT,
_device="/job:localhost/replica:0/task:0/cpu:0"](Reshape_2, Reshape_3)]]

    Caused by op 'SoftmaxCrossEntropyWithLogits', defined at:
      File "cnn.py", line 55, in <module>
        cost =
tf.reduce_mean(tf.nn.softmax_cross_entropy_with_logits(model_op, y))
      File "C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\ops\nn_ops.py",
line 1449, in softmax_cross_entropy_with_logits
        precise_logits, labels, name=name)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\ops\gen_nn_ops.py", line
2265, in _softmax_cross_entropy_with_logits
        features=features, labels=labels, name=name)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\framework\op_def_library.py",
line 759, in apply_op
        op_def=op_def)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\framework\ops.py", line
2240, in create_op
        original_op=self._default_original_op, op_def=op_def)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\framework\ops.py", line
1128, in __init__
        self._traceback = _extract_stack()

    InvalidArgumentError (see above for traceback): logits and labels must
be same size: logits_size=[256,2] labels_size=[1,2]
             [[Node: SoftmaxCrossEntropyWithLogits =
SoftmaxCrossEntropyWithLogits[T=DT_FLOAT,
_device="/job:localhost/replica:0/task:0/cpu:0"](Reshape_2, Reshape_3)]]

**EDIT-3**

This is how the binary (pickled) file looks like [label, filename, data]:

    [array([1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1]), array(['1.jpg', '10.jpg',
'2.jpg', '3.jpg', '4.jpg', '5.jpg', '6.jpg',
           '7.jpg', '8.jpg', '9.jpg'],
          dtype='<U6'), array([[142, 138, 134, ..., 128, 125, 122],
           [151, 151, 149, ..., 162, 159, 157],
           [120, 121, 122, ..., 132, 128, 122],
           ...,
           [179, 175, 177, ..., 207, 205, 203],
           [126, 129, 130, ..., 134, 130, 134],
           [165, 170, 175, ..., 193, 193, 187]])]

**EDIT-4**

After changing `w3` as follows:

    w3 = tf.Variable(tf.random_normal([38*38*64, 1024]))

I'm getting the following error:

    EPOCH 0
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "cnn.py", line 69, in <module>
        _, accuracy_val = sess.run([train_op, accuracy], feed_dict={x:
batch_data, y: batch_onehot_vals})
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\client\session.py", line
766, in run
        run_metadata_ptr)
      File
"C:\Python35\lib\site-packages\tensorflow\python\client\session.py", line
943, in _run
        % (np_val.shape, subfeed_t.name, str(subfeed_t.get_shape())))
    ValueError: Cannot feed value of shape (1, 22500) for Tensor
'Placeholder:0', which has shape '(?, 576)'

How can I solve this issue?

Thanks.


On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 1:09 AM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:

> On 24Mar2017 18:08, Abdul Abdul <abdul.sw84 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I hope you are doing fine. I have added a question on StackOverflow and
>> thought you might have an idea on it. This is the question
>> <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/42991477/python-structu
>> ring-a-file-similar-to-another-pickled-file>
>>
>
> Hi Adbul,
>
> Please just post the question here, with a nice descriptive Subject: line.
>
> It is quite possible for people to be reading this list when they do not
> have web access (eg offline on a train, as I sometimes do) and it is anyway
> annoying to have to open a web browser to see what you are asking about,
> and doubly annoying to copy from that question into the list for replies.
>
> Thank you,
> Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>
>


From python at deborahswanson.net  Sat Mar 25 21:33:38 2017
From: python at deborahswanson.net (Deborah Swanson)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 18:33:38 -0700
Subject: why and how to run forever and debug when error in for proc in
 psutil.process_iter()?
In-Reply-To: <71d1fddd-7fdf-4049-9e81-442d1f8b55f7@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <00a401d2a5d0$fec52800$27b23dae@sambora>

Someone here can probably help you, but they'll need your Python
version, operating system, and full traceback. They get tired of saying
so. 

In this case, the full traceback is needed to see what went wrong and
when (after which statements).


Ho Yeung Lee wrote, on Saturday, March 25, 2017 1:38 AM
> 
> expect below to run forever and keep running a fixed number 
> of thread in python
> 
> would like to kill tasks when process connect internet except 
> chrome and explorer.exe
> 
> i do this because MalwareBytes can not disconnect these 
> existing trojan when my notebook connect internet
> 
> after run a few minutes, the program stopped, but i have 
> already kept create process, why the whole program end?
> 
> why and how to debug when error in for proc in psutil.process_iter()?
> 
> 
> import os
> import psutil
> import multiprocessing
> import time
> import sys
> 
> def cleantask():
>     p = os.popen("netstat -ano")
>     while 1:
>         line = p.readline()
>         if "TCP" in line or "UDP" in line:
>             linelist = line.split()
>             if len(linelist) > 4:
>                 if "LISTEN" in str(linelist[3]):
>                     for proc in psutil.process_iter():
>                         try:
>                             if "pop" not in str(proc.name).tolower():
>                                 os.system("taskkill /f /pid 
> "+str(proc._pid))
>                         except:
>                             dummy = 1
>                             #print "Unexpected error:", 
> sys.exc_info()[0]
>                             #print "Unexpected error:", 
> sys.exc_info()[1]
>                 if "ESTABLISHED" in str(linelist[3]):
>                     if "127.0.0.1" not in str(linelist[2]):
>                         for proc in psutil.process_iter():
>                             try:
>                                 if str(linelist[4]) in 
> str(proc._pid):            
>                                     
> print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+proc.name)
>                                 if "111.221" not in 
> str(linelist[2]) and "explorer.exe" not in str(proc.name).tolower():
>                                     os.system("taskkill /f 
> /pid "+str(proc._pid))
>                             except:
>                                 dummy = 1
>                                 #print "Unexpected error:", 
> sys.exc_info()[0]
>                                 #print "Unexpected error:", 
> sys.exc_info()[1]
>                         print(line)
>         if not line: break
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     print("main")
>     try:
>         numberofrunning = 0
>         plist = []
>         for ii in range(0,5):  
>             p = multiprocessing.Process(target=cleantask(), args=(0,))
>             p.start()
>             plist.append(p)
>             numberofrunning = numberofrunning + 1
>             time.sleep(1)
>         for pp in plist:
>             pp.join()
>      	    if pp.is_alive() == False:
>                 numberofrunning = numberofrunning - 1
>                 plist.remove(pp)
>             if numberofrunning > 10:
>                 print "more than 10 process"
>             else:
>                 print("number of process = " + str(numberofrunning))
>                 if numberofrunning <= 5:
>                     p = 
> multiprocessing.Process(target=cleantask(), args=(0,))
>                     p.start()
>                     plist.append(p)
>                     numberofrunning = numberofrunning + 1
>                     time.sleep(1)
>     except:
>         print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[0]
>         print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[1]
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From python at deborahswanson.net  Sat Mar 25 21:38:37 2017
From: python at deborahswanson.net (Deborah Swanson)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 18:38:37 -0700
Subject: syntax error in first-time user script
In-Reply-To: <55f70962-79fe-715a-e7fa-c72770cef370@mail.usf.edu>
Message-ID: <00ab01d2a5d1$b0e76bb0$27b23dae@sambora>

john polo wrote, on March 25, 2017 2:45 PM
> 
> I had a misconception of how the Python interpreter works. If 
> I have a 
> script, call it example.py, in order to run it, I shouldn't be in the 
> interpreter? In other words, I should be at the Windows 
> command prompt, 
> for example
> 
> C:/test> python example.py
> 
> and not
> 
>  >>> python example.py
> 
> ?
> 
> So, if I am already on >>> and have a problem with a script 
> and need to 
> edit it and want to run the script again, how do I do that? Do I exit 
> the interpreter and start it again? Or is there a different 
> way to run 
> the script once the interpreter is active and I am at >>> ?
> 
> Cheers,
> John

In IDLE, to run a script, open the .py file from the file menu and click
Run Module from the Run menu. You can easily edit the .py file while
it's open in the editor



From python at deborahswanson.net  Sat Mar 25 21:52:11 2017
From: python at deborahswanson.net (Deborah Swanson)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 18:52:11 -0700
Subject: should i kill these two process with python?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmorWQUuoQYsW1HZpwMkmSrcdLVHQXE5kzFUXNW3jgYjxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00b201d2a5d3$966bdee0$27b23dae@sambora>

Chris Angelico wrote, on Saturday, March 25, 2017 1:53 AM
> 
> On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 7:41 PM, Ho Yeung Lee 
> <jobmattcon at gmail.com> wrote:
> >   TCP    127.0.0.1:1663         127.0.0.1:28091        
> ESTABLISHED     9900
> >   TCP    127.0.0.1:28091        127.0.0.1:1663         
> ESTABLISHED     9532
> >
> > above two process connect to itself, named ismagent and updateui.exe
> >
> > are they the malware software?
> >
> >
> >   TCP    127.0.0.1:1663         127.0.0.1:28091        
> ESTABLISHED     9900
> >   TCP    127.0.0.1:7496         0.0.0.0:0              
> LISTENING       7496
> >   TCP    127.0.0.1:27015        0.0.0.0:0              
> LISTENING       9968
> >   TCP    127.0.0.1:28091        0.0.0.0:0              
> LISTENING       9532
> >   TCP    127.0.0.1:28091        127.0.0.1:1663         
> ESTABLISHED     9532
> >   TCP    127.0.0.1:43227        0.0.0.0:0              
> LISTENING       3772
> >   TCP    127.0.0.1:50000        0.0.0.0:0              
> LISTENING       9532
> >   TCP    192.168.1.102:1128     210.176.156.35:443     
> FIN_WAIT_2      5124
> >   TCP    192.168.1.102:1509     64.233.188.102:443     
> ESTABLISHED     6700
> >   TCP    192.168.1.102:1510     216.58.203.46:443      
> ESTABLISHED     6700
> >   TCP    192.168.1.102:1511     216.58.203.46:443      
> ESTABLISHED     6700
> >   TCP    192.168.1.102:1512     216.58.200.5:443       
> ESTABLISHED     6700
> >   TCP    192.168.1.102:1513     172.217.26.195:443     
> ESTABLISHED     6700
> >   TCP    192.168.1.102:1514     172.217.26.195:443     
> CLOSE_WAIT      6700
> >   TCP    192.168.1.102:1898     111.221.29.156:443     
> ESTABLISHED     1544
> 
> This question is about systems administration and has nothing 
> to do with Python.
> 
> To figure out what each connection represents, you'll have to 
> figure out what programs are on the two ends. (In the case of 
> listening sockets, figure out which program is listening.) 
> Then research what's actually being done by those programs. A 
> simple dump like this is not going to tell you much about 
> whether it's malware.
> 
> ChrisA

You can also look up the IP addresses with a DNS lookup tool that aren't
your machine (127.0.0.1 and 192.168.1.102). This may be helpful if you
recognize who they are, or you can google the IP addresses and/or their
owners. If they're malware, Google will have lots of pages on them.

This looks like a readout from Essential Net Tools running in Express
mode. If you select Addvanced mode, ENT will tell you the process name
and lots of other good stuff for each entry, plus ENT is a full network
toolbox and you won't need Google.

Deborah



From cs at zip.com.au  Sat Mar 25 22:55:56 2017
From: cs at zip.com.au (cs at zip.com.au)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 13:55:56 +1100
Subject: Python question
In-Reply-To: <58d64b6b$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ob6irm$dif$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <286b5eea-6586-69ae-580c-87901becf165@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <ce25d780-ccff-5be8-8d2c-07cbe792b5a0@lucidity.plus.com>
References: <58d64b6b$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ob6irm$dif$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <286b5eea-6586-69ae-580c-87901becf165@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <ce25d780-ccff-5be8-8d2c-07cbe792b5a0@lucidity.plus.com>
Message-ID: <20170326025556.GA63134@cskk.homeip.net>

On 26Mar2017 00:11, Erik <python at lucidity.plus.com> wrote:
>On 25/03/17 20:26, MRAB wrote:
>>On 2017-03-25 20:10, Terry Reedy wrote:
>>>On 3/25/2017 6:50 AM, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>>>>they BCC or CC me without a good excuse. As I was in this case: the OP
>>>>BCCed me in his post. I'm not *that* special, so my guess is that he
>>>>did a
>>>>mass BCC of many regulars here, which makes this spam.
>>>I got the BCC also and was puzzled why.
>>Same here.
>Me too, and I'm hardly a prolific poster compared to some of you lot.

Guys guys guys,

1: He BCCed the list, not us individually. Look at the headers.

2: I got a perfectly civil and informative response from him.

So treat him as up front!

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>


From arjun.janah at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 00:01:36 2017
From: arjun.janah at gmail.com (arjun.janah)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 00:01:36 -0400
Subject: Installation issue with Python 3.6.1 for 64 bit Windows
Message-ID: <58d73d21.56cc370a.298ce.a849@mx.google.com>


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
Hello,
I am using an HP PC, brought in 2009, which currently has on it Windows 7 Ultimate, Service Pack 1. 

The processor is an AMD Turion 64 X2 Mobile Technology TL-62 2.10 GHz.

Installed memory is 4.00 GB (3.75 GB usable)

System type is 64-bit operating system.

I went to?https://www.python.org/downloads/windows/ and chose the following:?Download?Windows x86-64 executable installerThe downloaded file appeared, in my Downloads folder, as:

python-3.6.1-amd64.exe, with a filesize of 30,657 KB.

I ran the file and it appeared to install properly. But when I tried to run Python from the Windows All Programs menu tab, I got the following message, in a small window by the window with a black screen:
------------------------------------------
python.exe - System Error
The program can't start because api-ms-win-crt-runtime-l1-1-0.dll is missing from your computer. Try reinstalling the program to fix this problem.------------------------------------------

I tried the following:

(a) restarting Windows and trying again: same result;

(a) running the installer file again and selecting repair:
this stalled for a long time so I had to abort it;

(b) restarting my computer, running the installer file again and selecting uninstall: this uninstalled Python, so it said;

(c) running the installer file again and choosing install: this installed Python afresh. But then I had the same problem as at the start when I tried to run Python.

Please advise.

Thanks

Arjun Janah < arjun.janah at gmail.com >



From best_lay at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 26 00:16:03 2017
From: best_lay at yahoo.com (Wildman)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 23:16:03 -0500
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmoXxZt=TmLh7vjAkJMDR8d0dj6wc=2E5WBYipbEPXSm8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.88.1490036490.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <0ridndb9eIgmukzFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@giganews.com>
 <871stqzqza.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAE6NSRBLg6Z+qfDHVt3b+Hd1W6U+dXNCgsTX0dcYjTbj+MX5wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.100.1490105719.30671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Q-6dnVRED88e3UrFnZ2dnUU7-TmdnZ2d@giganews.com>

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 15:15:14 +0100, Mikhail V wrote:

> And on linux console, by default one does not even have good
> possibilities for text-mode pseudographics, it was more relevant
> in DOS where one had rich possibilities and programmable
> binary fonts.
> 
> Mikhail

Nonsense.

-- 
<Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453
The cow died so I don't need your bull!


From ganesh1pal at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 02:47:40 2017
From: ganesh1pal at gmail.com (Ganesh Pal)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 12:17:40 +0530
Subject: C-Python and Endianness
Message-ID: <CACT3xuU3d0E-qsADc5kyo5bONaNqLg=HDgTYcO=0TKtf=kaDNw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Team ,




I want  to write the  hexadecimal string that is passed from python  as  it
is  on disk in C  , my problem is that  the values are getting stored  in
little endian and


the values are  swapped it has been quite a pain for me to fix this , any
suggestion on how to fix this (I am on Python 2.7 and Linux).




Example  :


 if I pass a PyObject  i.e ?abcdef12345123?  it should be written on disk
 at the given offset as it  i.e. ?abcdef12345123?





CLI:



#inject_failures.py --optype=add --fixcrc=1 --object=baddr
 --baddr=2,3,773463552:512  --offset=16 --mirror=1
 --op_value='abcdef12345123' --size=8



(op_value is the new variable that is passed as string )



static PyObject *

py_corrupt_disk_object(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)

{



        int size, optype, fixcrc;

        long offset;

        PyObject *baddr;

        char *op_value = NULL;



        if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args,"Oliisi", &baddr, &offset, &size,
&optype,

            &op_value,&fixcrc))

                Py_RETURN_NONE;



        d_locn_t locn = {};

        locn.idx.devid  = ((struct py_ifs_baddr*)baddr)->baddr.devid;

        locn.idx.drive  = ((struct py_ifs_baddr*)baddr)->baddr.drive;

        locn.idx.subidx = ((struct py_ifs_baddr*)baddr)->baddr._subblk;

        locn.idx.index  = ((struct py_ifs_baddr*)baddr)->baddr._block;



        d_print("Printing args in py_corrupt_disk_object: \n");

        d_print("offset %lu \n",offset);

        d_print("fixcrc %d \n",fixcrc);

        d_print("size %d \n",size);

        d_print("optype %d \n",optype);

        d_print("op_value %s \n",op_value);





        d_cpr_write(&locn, offset, size, optype, op_value, fixcrc);

        Py_RETURN_NONE;

}





PyObject*

d_cpr_write(d_locn_t *locn, int offset, int size, int optype, char
*op_value, int fixcrc)

{



        cpr_obj* obj = NULL;

        struct po_typeinfo *tinfo = NULL;

        int obj_size = 0;

        d_print("The Values inside d_cpr_write():\n");

        d_print("offset %d \n",offset);

        d_print("fixcrc %d \n",fixcrc);

        d_print("size %d \n",size);

        d_print("optype %d \n",optype);

        d_print("op_value %s \n",op_value);





        if (locn->idx.subidx & BADDR_SIZE_512) {

                obj_size = BUFFER_512;

                tinfo = find_object('i');

                if (locn_iaddr_to_linsnap(locn) != d_OK) {

                        d_log(d_ERR, "lin snap conversion failed\n");

                        Py_RETURN_NONE;

                }

                locn->flags |= DLFLAG_HASXIADDRHINT;

                locn->xiaddrhint = d_index_to_baddr(locn->idx);

        } else {

                obj_size = BUFFER_8192;

                tinfo = find_object('b');

        }



        if (tinfo == NULL) {

                d_log(d_ERR, "Only Object i or b supported\n");

                Py_RETURN_NONE;

        }



        obj = alloc_objarg();



        // create cpr object

        obj->tinfo = tinfo;

        obj->locn = *locn;



        unsigned char *buff = NULL;

        if (!(buff = alloca(obj_size))) {

                d_log(d_ERR, "buffer allocation failed\n");

                Py_RETURN_NONE;

        }



        int index, xfered, bit_offset;



        if ((xfered = (*obj->tinfo->read)(&obj->locn, buff, obj_size)) < 0)
{

                d_log(d_ERR, "read failed %d\n", xfered);

                Py_RETURN_NONE;

        }



        if (obj->tinfo->insane != NULL) {

                if ((*obj->tinfo->insane)(&obj->locn, buff, obj_size, 0) <
0) {

                        d_log(d_ERR, "%c object sanity check failed\n",

                            obj->tinfo->type);

                        Py_RETURN_NONE;

                }

        }



       d_print("Entering optype\n");

        if (optype == 2) { //overwrite

                unsigned long opval = strtol(op_value, NULL, 16);

                d_print("after rev =%ld ", opval);

                memcpy(&buff[offset], &opval, sizeof(opval));



         }//End of overwrite

        if (fixcrc)

                obj->locn.flags |= DLFLAG_WRITE_CRC;



        if (!obj->tinfo->write) {

                d_log(d_ERR, "no write function supported\n");

                Py_RETURN_NONE;

        }



        if ((xfered = (*obj->tinfo->write)(&obj->locn, buff, obj_size)) <
0) {

                d_log(d_ERR, "write failed %d\n", xfered);

                Py_RETURN_NONE;

        }



        Py_RETURN_NONE;

}





Output:



pipe1-2# inject_failures.py --optype=add --fixcrc=1 --object=baddr
 --baddr=2,3,773463552:512  --offset=16 --mirror=1
 --op_value='abcdef12345123' --size=8

> /usr/local_qa/bin/isi_corrupt.py(848)main()

-> if 'add' in options.optype and options.op_value is None:

(Pdb) c

c

> /usr/local_qa/bin/ inject_failures.py (185)corrupt_diskobject()

-> logging.info("Corrupting disk object %s at %s", obj_type, disk_object)

(Pdb) c

Printing args in py_corrupt_disk_object:

offset 16

fixcrc 1

size 8

optype 2

op_value abcdef12345123

The Values inside d_cpr_write():

offset 16

fixcrc 1

size 8

optype 2

op_value abcdef12345123

Entering optype

after rev =48358647703818531



If I do an hexdump on the file  I can see that data is not written correctly



Before:

00000010  e0 01 04 00 01 00 00 00  02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
 |................|

After :

00000010  23 51 34 12 ef cd ab 00  02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
 |#Q4.............|  ==>





1.  I am on a little endian machine  and is there a way that I can  stop
this  translation  and write the values as it  ( looks like we are swapping
the  bytes )?


2.  The value passed i.e op_value is a string and its getting printed
correctly at C layer,my value is always a hex decimal string of size 14  or
7 bytes.



3. Is there something that I can take care in python layer to avoid this
swap ?



Regards,


Ganesh


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 04:21:36 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 01:21:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
Message-ID: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>

print('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%s"''', (pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )

prints out:

UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%s" (1, 'cyta.gr', '????? ????????', 'Greece', 'Windows', 'Chrome', '17-03-24 22:04:24', 'cyta.gr')

How should i write the cursor.execute in order to be parsed properly?
As i have it now %s does not get substituted.
i use PyMySQL by the way and i have tried every possible combination even with % instead of a comma but still produces errors.


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Sun Mar 26 04:52:43 2017
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 11:52:43 +0300
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

????? ?????? writes:

> print('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros,
> browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE
> "%s"''', (pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit,
> domain) )
>
> prints out:
>
> UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser,
> visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%s" (1,
> 'cyta.gr', '????? ????????', 'Greece', 'Windows', 'Chrome', '17-03-24
> 22:04:24', 'cyta.gr')
>
> How should i write the cursor.execute in order to be parsed properly?
> As i have it now %s does not get substituted.
> i use PyMySQL by the way and i have tried every possible combination
> even with % instead of a comma but still produces errors.

You should include the actual statement that produces the errors, not a
very different statement. And you should include the actual text of the
error messages.

To learn about PyMySQL cursor.execute, put "pymysql cursor execute"
(without the quotes) to a search engine and find something like the
following document (the first hit from google.fi for me).

https://dev.mysql.com/doc/connector-python/en/connector-python-api-mysqlcursor-execute.html

That looks helpful to me.


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Sun Mar 26 05:55:13 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 20:55:13 +1100
Subject: Python question
References: <58d64b6b$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ob6irm$dif$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <286b5eea-6586-69ae-580c-87901becf165@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <ce25d780-ccff-5be8-8d2c-07cbe792b5a0@lucidity.plus.com>
 <20170326025556.GA63134@cskk.homeip.net>
 <mailman.11.1490498555.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58d79003$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 01:55 pm, cs at zip.com.au wrote:

> 1: He BCCed the list, not us individually. Look at the headers.

BCCed addresses aren't visible in the headers. That's why they're BLIND CC.
The lack of personal email addresses in the headers doesn't prove they
weren't there. All the headers tell us is that he definitely posted to the
list. (But we knew that!)

Your interpretation doesn't explain why I received a copy sent to my
personal email address. I read this via the newsgroup comp.lang.python, not
the mailing list, and I'm not subscribed to the email mailing list. If the
OP had merely BCCed the mailing list, I wouldn't have received a copy in my
personal inbox.



-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From jobmattcon at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 07:32:02 2017
From: jobmattcon at gmail.com (Ho Yeung Lee)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 04:32:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why and how to run forever and debug when error in for proc in
 psutil.process_iter()?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.10.1490495621.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <71d1fddd-7fdf-4049-9e81-442d1f8b55f7@googlegroups.com>
 <00a401d2a5d0$fec52800$27b23dae@sambora>
 <mailman.10.1490495621.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <74aff512-18ee-4b6c-a675-14261ad703e6@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 10:33:51 AM UTC+8, Deborah Swanson wrote:
> Someone here can probably help you, but they'll need your Python
> version, operating system, and full traceback. They get tired of saying
> so. 
> 
> In this case, the full traceback is needed to see what went wrong and
> when (after which statements).
> 
> 
> Ho Yeung Lee wrote, on Saturday, March 25, 2017 1:38 AM
> > 
> > expect below to run forever and keep running a fixed number 
> > of thread in python
> > 
> > would like to kill tasks when process connect internet except 
> > chrome and explorer.exe
> > 
> > i do this because MalwareBytes can not disconnect these 
> > existing trojan when my notebook connect internet
> > 
> > after run a few minutes, the program stopped, but i have 
> > already kept create process, why the whole program end?
> > 
> > why and how to debug when error in for proc in psutil.process_iter()?
> > 
> > 
> > import os
> > import psutil
> > import multiprocessing
> > import time
> > import sys
> > 
> > def cleantask():
> >     p = os.popen("netstat -ano")
> >     while 1:
> >         line = p.readline()
> >         if "TCP" in line or "UDP" in line:
> >             linelist = line.split()
> >             if len(linelist) > 4:
> >                 if "LISTEN" in str(linelist[3]):
> >                     for proc in psutil.process_iter():
> >                         try:
> >                             if "pop" not in str(proc.name).tolower():
> >                                 os.system("taskkill /f /pid 
> > "+str(proc._pid))
> >                         except:
> >                             dummy = 1
> >                             #print "Unexpected error:", 
> > sys.exc_info()[0]
> >                             #print "Unexpected error:", 
> > sys.exc_info()[1]
> >                 if "ESTABLISHED" in str(linelist[3]):
> >                     if "127.0.0.1" not in str(linelist[2]):
> >                         for proc in psutil.process_iter():
> >                             try:
> >                                 if str(linelist[4]) in 
> > str(proc._pid):            
> >                                     
> > print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+proc.name)
> >                                 if "111.221" not in 
> > str(linelist[2]) and "explorer.exe" not in str(proc.name).tolower():
> >                                     os.system("taskkill /f 
> > /pid "+str(proc._pid))
> >                             except:
> >                                 dummy = 1
> >                                 #print "Unexpected error:", 
> > sys.exc_info()[0]
> >                                 #print "Unexpected error:", 
> > sys.exc_info()[1]
> >                         print(line)
> >         if not line: break
> > 
> > if __name__ == '__main__':
> >     print("main")
> >     try:
> >         numberofrunning = 0
> >         plist = []
> >         for ii in range(0,5):  
> >             p = multiprocessing.Process(target=cleantask(), args=(0,))
> >             p.start()
> >             plist.append(p)
> >             numberofrunning = numberofrunning + 1
> >             time.sleep(1)
> >         for pp in plist:
> >             pp.join()
> >      	    if pp.is_alive() == False:
> >                 numberofrunning = numberofrunning - 1
> >                 plist.remove(pp)
> >             if numberofrunning > 10:
> >                 print "more than 10 process"
> >             else:
> >                 print("number of process = " + str(numberofrunning))
> >                 if numberofrunning <= 5:
> >                     p = 
> > multiprocessing.Process(target=cleantask(), args=(0,))
> >                     p.start()
> >                     plist.append(p)
> >                     numberofrunning = numberofrunning + 1
> >                     time.sleep(1)
> >     except:
> >         print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[0]
> >         print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[1]
> > -- 
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >

after window update error, I can not login window and reset system and
reinstall every thing

python 2.7.12

there is no error when run, but it end after running a few minutes
if commend the forever loop in main

import os
import psutil
import multiprocessing
import time
import sys

def cleantask():
    bufsize = 0
    f = open("d:\\killlist.txt",'a',bufsize)
    p = os.popen("netstat -ano")
    while 1:
        line = p.readline()
        if "TCP" in line or "UDP" in line:
            linelist = line.split()
            if len(linelist) > 4:
                if "LISTEN" in str(linelist[3]):
                    for proc in psutil.process_iter():
                        try:
                            if "pop" in str(proc.name).lower():
                                os.system("taskkill /f /pid "+str(proc._pid))
                                #print("here8")
                                print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+proc.name +" is killed ")
                                #print("here9")
                                path = proc.exe()
                                print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+proc.name +" at " + str(path))
                                #print("here10")
                        except:
                            dummy = 1
                            #print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[0]
                            #print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[1]
                if "ESTAB" in str(linelist[3]):
                    if "127.0.0.1" not in str(linelist[2]):
                        for proc in psutil.process_iter():
                            try:
                                if str(linelist[4]) in str(proc._pid):            
                                    #print("here1a")
                                    print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+str(proc.name))
                                    #print("here2a")
                                    #print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+proc.name)

                                #print("here3a")
                                if "111.221" in str(linelist[2]):
                                    dummy = 1
                                elif "explorer.exe" in str(proc.name).lower():
                                    dummy = 1
                                elif "svchost" in str(proc.name).lower():
                                    dummy = 1
                                elif "cmd" in str(proc.name).lower():
                                    dummy = 1
                                else:
                                    os.system("taskkill /pid "+str(proc._pid))
                                    #print("here1")
                                    print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+str(proc.name) +" is killed ")
                                    #print("here2")
                                    path = proc.exe()
                                    print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+str(proc.name) +" at " + str(path))
                                    #print("here3")
                                    f.write(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+str(proc.name) +" at " + str(path) +"\n")
                            except:
                                dummy = 1
                                print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[0]
                                print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[1]
                                #print("here6")
                                f.write(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+str(proc.name) +" can not kill at " + str(path) +"\n")
                                #print("here7")
                                f.flush()
                        print(line)
        if not line: break
    f.close()


if __name__ == '__main__':
    print("main")
    #while 1:
        try:
            numberofrunning = 0
            plist = []
            for ii in range(0,100):  
                p = multiprocessing.Process(target=cleantask(), args=(0,))
                p.start()
                plist.append(p)
                numberofrunning = numberofrunning + 1
                time.sleep(1)
            for pp in plist:
                pp.join()
     	        if pp.is_alive() == False:
                    numberofrunning = numberofrunning - 1
                    plist.remove(pp)
                if numberofrunning > 100:
                    print "more than 100 process"
                else:
                    print("number of process = " + str(numberofrunning))
                    if numberofrunning <= 90:
                        p = multiprocessing.Process(target=cleantask(), args=(0,))
                        p.start()
                        plist.append(p)
                        numberofrunning = numberofrunning + 1
                        time.sleep(1)
        except:
            print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[0]
            print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[1]



From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Mar 26 07:35:24 2017
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 22:35:24 +1100
Subject: Python question
In-Reply-To: <58d79003$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <58d79003$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20170326113524.GA2791@cskk.homeip.net>

On 26Mar2017 20:55, Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 01:55 pm, cs at zip.com.au wrote:
>> 1: He BCCed the list, not us individually. Look at the headers.
>
>BCCed addresses aren't visible in the headers. That's why they're BLIND CC.

Of course, but the received headers etc show it passed though the list.

>The lack of personal email addresses in the headers doesn't prove they
>weren't there. All the headers tell us is that he definitely posted to the
>list. (But we knew that!)

If the headers say it went though the list, _that_ copy went through the list, 
_not_ to your personal address (well, not from him; of course the list 
delivered it to you).

>Your interpretation doesn't explain why I received a copy sent to my
>personal email address. I read this via the newsgroup comp.lang.python, not
>the mailing list, and I'm not subscribed to the email mailing list. If the
>OP had merely BCCed the mailing list, I wouldn't have received a copy in my
>personal inbox.

Fair point. Though I thought I only got one copy, might be wrong.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>


From jobmattcon at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 07:40:09 2017
From: jobmattcon at gmail.com (Ho Yeung Lee)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 04:40:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why and how to run forever and debug when error in for proc in
 psutil.process_iter()?
In-Reply-To: <74aff512-18ee-4b6c-a675-14261ad703e6@googlegroups.com>
References: <71d1fddd-7fdf-4049-9e81-442d1f8b55f7@googlegroups.com>
 <00a401d2a5d0$fec52800$27b23dae@sambora>
 <mailman.10.1490495621.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <74aff512-18ee-4b6c-a675-14261ad703e6@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <38d007c6-d8ce-4da7-b3e9-de759ced14b0@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 7:32:12 PM UTC+8, Ho Yeung Lee wrote:
> On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 10:33:51 AM UTC+8, Deborah Swanson wrote:
> > Someone here can probably help you, but they'll need your Python
> > version, operating system, and full traceback. They get tired of saying
> > so. 
> > 
> > In this case, the full traceback is needed to see what went wrong and
> > when (after which statements).
> > 
> > 
> > Ho Yeung Lee wrote, on Saturday, March 25, 2017 1:38 AM
> > > 
> > > expect below to run forever and keep running a fixed number 
> > > of thread in python
> > > 
> > > would like to kill tasks when process connect internet except 
> > > chrome and explorer.exe
> > > 
> > > i do this because MalwareBytes can not disconnect these 
> > > existing trojan when my notebook connect internet
> > > 
> > > after run a few minutes, the program stopped, but i have 
> > > already kept create process, why the whole program end?
> > > 
> > > why and how to debug when error in for proc in psutil.process_iter()?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > import os
> > > import psutil
> > > import multiprocessing
> > > import time
> > > import sys
> > > 
> > > def cleantask():
> > >     p = os.popen("netstat -ano")
> > >     while 1:
> > >         line = p.readline()
> > >         if "TCP" in line or "UDP" in line:
> > >             linelist = line.split()
> > >             if len(linelist) > 4:
> > >                 if "LISTEN" in str(linelist[3]):
> > >                     for proc in psutil.process_iter():
> > >                         try:
> > >                             if "pop" not in str(proc.name).tolower():
> > >                                 os.system("taskkill /f /pid 
> > > "+str(proc._pid))
> > >                         except:
> > >                             dummy = 1
> > >                             #print "Unexpected error:", 
> > > sys.exc_info()[0]
> > >                             #print "Unexpected error:", 
> > > sys.exc_info()[1]
> > >                 if "ESTABLISHED" in str(linelist[3]):
> > >                     if "127.0.0.1" not in str(linelist[2]):
> > >                         for proc in psutil.process_iter():
> > >                             try:
> > >                                 if str(linelist[4]) in 
> > > str(proc._pid):            
> > >                                     
> > > print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+proc.name)
> > >                                 if "111.221" not in 
> > > str(linelist[2]) and "explorer.exe" not in str(proc.name).tolower():
> > >                                     os.system("taskkill /f 
> > > /pid "+str(proc._pid))
> > >                             except:
> > >                                 dummy = 1
> > >                                 #print "Unexpected error:", 
> > > sys.exc_info()[0]
> > >                                 #print "Unexpected error:", 
> > > sys.exc_info()[1]
> > >                         print(line)
> > >         if not line: break
> > > 
> > > if __name__ == '__main__':
> > >     print("main")
> > >     try:
> > >         numberofrunning = 0
> > >         plist = []
> > >         for ii in range(0,5):  
> > >             p = multiprocessing.Process(target=cleantask(), args=(0,))
> > >             p.start()
> > >             plist.append(p)
> > >             numberofrunning = numberofrunning + 1
> > >             time.sleep(1)
> > >         for pp in plist:
> > >             pp.join()
> > >      	    if pp.is_alive() == False:
> > >                 numberofrunning = numberofrunning - 1
> > >                 plist.remove(pp)
> > >             if numberofrunning > 10:
> > >                 print "more than 10 process"
> > >             else:
> > >                 print("number of process = " + str(numberofrunning))
> > >                 if numberofrunning <= 5:
> > >                     p = 
> > > multiprocessing.Process(target=cleantask(), args=(0,))
> > >                     p.start()
> > >                     plist.append(p)
> > >                     numberofrunning = numberofrunning + 1
> > >                     time.sleep(1)
> > >     except:
> > >         print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[0]
> > >         print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[1]
> > > -- 
> > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > >
> 
> after window update error, I can not login window and reset system and
> reinstall every thing
> 
> python 2.7.12
> 
> there is no error when run, but it end after running a few minutes
> if commend the forever loop in main
> 
> import os
> import psutil
> import multiprocessing
> import time
> import sys
> 
> def cleantask():
>     bufsize = 0
>     f = open("d:\\killlist.txt",'a',bufsize)
>     p = os.popen("netstat -ano")
>     while 1:
>         line = p.readline()
>         if "TCP" in line or "UDP" in line:
>             linelist = line.split()
>             if len(linelist) > 4:
>                 if "LISTEN" in str(linelist[3]):
>                     for proc in psutil.process_iter():
>                         try:
>                             if "pop" in str(proc.name).lower():
>                                 os.system("taskkill /f /pid "+str(proc._pid))
>                                 #print("here8")
>                                 print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+proc.name +" is killed ")
>                                 #print("here9")
>                                 path = proc.exe()
>                                 print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+proc.name +" at " + str(path))
>                                 #print("here10")
>                         except:
>                             dummy = 1
>                             #print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[0]
>                             #print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[1]
>                 if "ESTAB" in str(linelist[3]):
>                     if "127.0.0.1" not in str(linelist[2]):
>                         for proc in psutil.process_iter():
>                             try:
>                                 if str(linelist[4]) in str(proc._pid):            
>                                     #print("here1a")
>                                     print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+str(proc.name))
>                                     #print("here2a")
>                                     #print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+proc.name)
> 
>                                 #print("here3a")
>                                 if "111.221" in str(linelist[2]):
>                                     dummy = 1
>                                 elif "explorer.exe" in str(proc.name).lower():
>                                     dummy = 1
>                                 elif "svchost" in str(proc.name).lower():
>                                     dummy = 1
>                                 elif "cmd" in str(proc.name).lower():
>                                     dummy = 1
>                                 else:
>                                     os.system("taskkill /pid "+str(proc._pid))
>                                     #print("here1")
>                                     print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+str(proc.name) +" is killed ")
>                                     #print("here2")
>                                     path = proc.exe()
>                                     print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+str(proc.name) +" at " + str(path))
>                                     #print("here3")
>                                     f.write(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+str(proc.name) +" at " + str(path) +"\n")
>                             except:
>                                 dummy = 1
>                                 print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[0]
>                                 print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[1]
>                                 #print("here6")
>                                 f.write(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+str(proc.name) +" can not kill at " + str(path) +"\n")
>                                 #print("here7")
>                                 f.flush()
>                         print(line)
>         if not line: break
>     f.close()
> 
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     print("main")
>     #while 1:
>         try:
>             numberofrunning = 0
>             plist = []
>             for ii in range(0,100):  
>                 p = multiprocessing.Process(target=cleantask(), args=(0,))
>                 p.start()
>                 plist.append(p)
>                 numberofrunning = numberofrunning + 1
>                 time.sleep(1)
>             for pp in plist:
>                 pp.join()
>      	        if pp.is_alive() == False:
>                     numberofrunning = numberofrunning - 1
>                     plist.remove(pp)
>                 if numberofrunning > 100:
>                     print "more than 100 process"
>                 else:
>                     print("number of process = " + str(numberofrunning))
>                     if numberofrunning <= 90:
>                         p = multiprocessing.Process(target=cleantask(), args=(0,))
>                         p.start()
>                         plist.append(p)
>                         numberofrunning = numberofrunning + 1
>                         time.sleep(1)
>         except:
>             print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[0]
>             print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[1]


another problem is'psutil.AccessDenied'

??: ????????????Taskkill ??????????
204.79.197.200:443,1384,<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=0, name='System Idle Process') at 62855096>> is killed
Unexpected error: <class 'psutil.AccessDenied'>
Unexpected error: psutil.AccessDenied (pid=0, name='System Idle Process')
Unexpected error: <type 'exceptions.UnboundLocalError'>
                                    os.system("taskkill /f /pid "+str(proc._pid))
                                    #print("here1")


From jobmattcon at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 07:42:21 2017
From: jobmattcon at gmail.com (Ho Yeung Lee)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 04:42:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why and how to run forever and debug when error in for proc in
 psutil.process_iter()?
In-Reply-To: <38d007c6-d8ce-4da7-b3e9-de759ced14b0@googlegroups.com>
References: <71d1fddd-7fdf-4049-9e81-442d1f8b55f7@googlegroups.com>
 <00a401d2a5d0$fec52800$27b23dae@sambora>
 <mailman.10.1490495621.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <74aff512-18ee-4b6c-a675-14261ad703e6@googlegroups.com>
 <38d007c6-d8ce-4da7-b3e9-de759ced14b0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6264f32b-6946-4331-a7f1-b01f55f6fc6a@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 7:40:20 PM UTC+8, Ho Yeung Lee wrote:
> On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 7:32:12 PM UTC+8, Ho Yeung Lee wrote:
> > On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 10:33:51 AM UTC+8, Deborah Swanson wrote:
> > > Someone here can probably help you, but they'll need your Python
> > > version, operating system, and full traceback. They get tired of saying
> > > so. 
> > > 
> > > In this case, the full traceback is needed to see what went wrong and
> > > when (after which statements).
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Ho Yeung Lee wrote, on Saturday, March 25, 2017 1:38 AM
> > > > 
> > > > expect below to run forever and keep running a fixed number 
> > > > of thread in python
> > > > 
> > > > would like to kill tasks when process connect internet except 
> > > > chrome and explorer.exe
> > > > 
> > > > i do this because MalwareBytes can not disconnect these 
> > > > existing trojan when my notebook connect internet
> > > > 
> > > > after run a few minutes, the program stopped, but i have 
> > > > already kept create process, why the whole program end?
> > > > 
> > > > why and how to debug when error in for proc in psutil.process_iter()?
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > import os
> > > > import psutil
> > > > import multiprocessing
> > > > import time
> > > > import sys
> > > > 
> > > > def cleantask():
> > > >     p = os.popen("netstat -ano")
> > > >     while 1:
> > > >         line = p.readline()
> > > >         if "TCP" in line or "UDP" in line:
> > > >             linelist = line.split()
> > > >             if len(linelist) > 4:
> > > >                 if "LISTEN" in str(linelist[3]):
> > > >                     for proc in psutil.process_iter():
> > > >                         try:
> > > >                             if "pop" not in str(proc.name).tolower():
> > > >                                 os.system("taskkill /f /pid 
> > > > "+str(proc._pid))
> > > >                         except:
> > > >                             dummy = 1
> > > >                             #print "Unexpected error:", 
> > > > sys.exc_info()[0]
> > > >                             #print "Unexpected error:", 
> > > > sys.exc_info()[1]
> > > >                 if "ESTABLISHED" in str(linelist[3]):
> > > >                     if "127.0.0.1" not in str(linelist[2]):
> > > >                         for proc in psutil.process_iter():
> > > >                             try:
> > > >                                 if str(linelist[4]) in 
> > > > str(proc._pid):            
> > > >                                     
> > > > print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+proc.name)
> > > >                                 if "111.221" not in 
> > > > str(linelist[2]) and "explorer.exe" not in str(proc.name).tolower():
> > > >                                     os.system("taskkill /f 
> > > > /pid "+str(proc._pid))
> > > >                             except:
> > > >                                 dummy = 1
> > > >                                 #print "Unexpected error:", 
> > > > sys.exc_info()[0]
> > > >                                 #print "Unexpected error:", 
> > > > sys.exc_info()[1]
> > > >                         print(line)
> > > >         if not line: break
> > > > 
> > > > if __name__ == '__main__':
> > > >     print("main")
> > > >     try:
> > > >         numberofrunning = 0
> > > >         plist = []
> > > >         for ii in range(0,5):  
> > > >             p = multiprocessing.Process(target=cleantask(), args=(0,))
> > > >             p.start()
> > > >             plist.append(p)
> > > >             numberofrunning = numberofrunning + 1
> > > >             time.sleep(1)
> > > >         for pp in plist:
> > > >             pp.join()
> > > >      	    if pp.is_alive() == False:
> > > >                 numberofrunning = numberofrunning - 1
> > > >                 plist.remove(pp)
> > > >             if numberofrunning > 10:
> > > >                 print "more than 10 process"
> > > >             else:
> > > >                 print("number of process = " + str(numberofrunning))
> > > >                 if numberofrunning <= 5:
> > > >                     p = 
> > > > multiprocessing.Process(target=cleantask(), args=(0,))
> > > >                     p.start()
> > > >                     plist.append(p)
> > > >                     numberofrunning = numberofrunning + 1
> > > >                     time.sleep(1)
> > > >     except:
> > > >         print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[0]
> > > >         print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[1]
> > > > -- 
> > > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > > >
> > 
> > after window update error, I can not login window and reset system and
> > reinstall every thing
> > 
> > python 2.7.12
> > 
> > there is no error when run, but it end after running a few minutes
> > if commend the forever loop in main
> > 
> > import os
> > import psutil
> > import multiprocessing
> > import time
> > import sys
> > 
> > def cleantask():
> >     bufsize = 0
> >     f = open("d:\\killlist.txt",'a',bufsize)
> >     p = os.popen("netstat -ano")
> >     while 1:
> >         line = p.readline()
> >         if "TCP" in line or "UDP" in line:
> >             linelist = line.split()
> >             if len(linelist) > 4:
> >                 if "LISTEN" in str(linelist[3]):
> >                     for proc in psutil.process_iter():
> >                         try:
> >                             if "pop" in str(proc.name).lower():
> >                                 os.system("taskkill /f /pid "+str(proc._pid))
> >                                 #print("here8")
> >                                 print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+proc.name +" is killed ")
> >                                 #print("here9")
> >                                 path = proc.exe()
> >                                 print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+proc.name +" at " + str(path))
> >                                 #print("here10")
> >                         except:
> >                             dummy = 1
> >                             #print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[0]
> >                             #print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[1]
> >                 if "ESTAB" in str(linelist[3]):
> >                     if "127.0.0.1" not in str(linelist[2]):
> >                         for proc in psutil.process_iter():
> >                             try:
> >                                 if str(linelist[4]) in str(proc._pid):            
> >                                     #print("here1a")
> >                                     print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+str(proc.name))
> >                                     #print("here2a")
> >                                     #print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+proc.name)
> > 
> >                                 #print("here3a")
> >                                 if "111.221" in str(linelist[2]):
> >                                     dummy = 1
> >                                 elif "explorer.exe" in str(proc.name).lower():
> >                                     dummy = 1
> >                                 elif "svchost" in str(proc.name).lower():
> >                                     dummy = 1
> >                                 elif "cmd" in str(proc.name).lower():
> >                                     dummy = 1
> >                                 else:
> >                                     os.system("taskkill /pid "+str(proc._pid))
> >                                     #print("here1")
> >                                     print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+str(proc.name) +" is killed ")
> >                                     #print("here2")
> >                                     path = proc.exe()
> >                                     print(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+str(proc.name) +" at " + str(path))
> >                                     #print("here3")
> >                                     f.write(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+str(proc.name) +" at " + str(path) +"\n")
> >                             except:
> >                                 dummy = 1
> >                                 print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[0]
> >                                 print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[1]
> >                                 #print("here6")
> >                                 f.write(str(linelist[2])+","+str(linelist[4])+","+str(proc.name) +" can not kill at " + str(path) +"\n")
> >                                 #print("here7")
> >                                 f.flush()
> >                         print(line)
> >         if not line: break
> >     f.close()
> > 
> > 
> > if __name__ == '__main__':
> >     print("main")
> >     #while 1:
> >         try:
> >             numberofrunning = 0
> >             plist = []
> >             for ii in range(0,100):  
> >                 p = multiprocessing.Process(target=cleantask(), args=(0,))
> >                 p.start()
> >                 plist.append(p)
> >                 numberofrunning = numberofrunning + 1
> >                 time.sleep(1)
> >             for pp in plist:
> >                 pp.join()
> >      	        if pp.is_alive() == False:
> >                     numberofrunning = numberofrunning - 1
> >                     plist.remove(pp)
> >                 if numberofrunning > 100:
> >                     print "more than 100 process"
> >                 else:
> >                     print("number of process = " + str(numberofrunning))
> >                     if numberofrunning <= 90:
> >                         p = multiprocessing.Process(target=cleantask(), args=(0,))
> >                         p.start()
> >                         plist.append(p)
> >                         numberofrunning = numberofrunning + 1
> >                         time.sleep(1)
> >         except:
> >             print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[0]
> >             print "Unexpected error:", sys.exc_info()[1]
> 
> 
> another problem is'psutil.AccessDenied'
> 
> ??: ????????????Taskkill ??????????
> 204.79.197.200:443,1384,<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=0, name='System Idle Process') at 62855096>> is killed
> Unexpected error: <class 'psutil.AccessDenied'>
> Unexpected error: psutil.AccessDenied (pid=0, name='System Idle Process')
> Unexpected error: <type 'exceptions.UnboundLocalError'>
>                                     os.system("taskkill /f /pid "+str(proc._pid))
>                                     #print("here1")




is there any suspected malware process needed to kill but accessed denied to kill even with admin console in window 10

<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=0, name='System Idle Process') at 52164704>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=4, name='System') at 52164872>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=80, name='dwm.exe') at 52164928>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=160, name='TabTip.exe') at 52165208>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=328, name='smss.exe') at 52165600>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=352, name='svchost.exe') at 52165376>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=376, name='python.exe') at 52165992>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=560, name='csrss.exe') at 52166048>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=632, name='csrss.exe') at 52166104>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=656, name='wininit.exe') at 52166160>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=664, name='MpCmdRun.exe') at 52166216>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=712, name='winlogon.exe') at 52166272>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=768, name='services.exe') at 52166328>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=784, name='lsass.exe') at 52166384>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=872, name='svchost.exe') at 52166440>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=940, name='svchost.exe') at 52166496>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=948, name='svchost.exe') at 52166552>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=964, name='ETDService.exe') at 52166608>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=1048, name='svchost.exe') at 52215880>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=1080, name='svchost.exe') at 52215936>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=1180, name='ETDTouch.exe') at 52215992>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=1184, name='taskhostw.exe') at 52216104>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=1272, name='spoolsv.exe') at 52216216>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=1300, name='PresentationFontCache.exe') at 52216272>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=1312, name='svchost.exe') at 52216328>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=1344, name='cmd.exe') at 52216384>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=1436, name='svchost.exe') at 52216496>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=1448, name='svchost.exe') at 52216552>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=1500, name='svchost.exe') at 52216664>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=1632, name='igfxHK.exe') at 52216720>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=1740, name='igfxCUIService.exe') at 52216832>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=1748, name='conhost.exe') at 52216944>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=1920, name='svchost.exe') at 52217056>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=1976, name='IntelCpHeciSvc.exe') at 52217112>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=1980, name='svchost.exe') at 52217224>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=2064, name='svchost.exe') at 52217280>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=2088, name='MsMpEng.exe') at 52217336>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=2220, name='Memory Compression') at 52217392>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=2336, name='backgroundTaskHost.exe') at 52217504>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=2460, name='dllhost.exe') at 52217616>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=2620, name='svchost.exe') at 52217728>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=2768, name='SearchUI.exe') at 52217784>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=2800, name='SearchProtocolHost.exe') at 52217896>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=2884, name='NisSrv.exe') at 52218008>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=2924, name='RuntimeBroker.exe') at 52218064>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=2976, name='TabTip32.exe') at 52218176>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=3036, name='svchost.exe') at 52218288>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=3080, name='explorer.exe') at 52218344>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=3280, name='sihost.exe') at 52218456>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=3336, name='igfxTray.exe') at 52218568>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=3380, name='ShellExperienceHost.exe') at 52218680>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=3492, name='notepad.exe') at 52218848>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=3580, name='svchost.exe') at 52218960>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=3712, name='SearchIndexer.exe') at 52219072>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=3744, name='igfxEM.exe') at 52219184>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=3760, name='ETDCtrlHelper.exe') at 52219296>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=3772, name='ETDCtrl.exe') at 52219464>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=3872, name='ChtIME.exe') at 52219576>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=3880, name='WmiPrvSE.exe') at 52219632>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=3924, name='SearchFilterHost.exe') at 52219688>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=3952, name='OneDrive.exe') at 52219800>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=4220, name='mmc.exe') at 52240512>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=4236, name='conhost.exe') at 52240624>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=4292, name='ApplicationFrameHost.exe') at 52240680>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=4328, name='RAVCpl64.exe') at 52240792>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=4416, name='MSASCuiL.exe') at 52240904>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=4484, name='SrTasks.exe') at 52241016>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=4496, name='TrustedInstaller.exe') at 52241072>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=5104, name='SystemSettings.exe') at 52241184>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=5212, name='audiodg.exe') at 52241352>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=5216, name='smartscreen.exe') at 52241408>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=5236, name='svchost.exe') at 52241464>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=5276, name='MicrosoftEdgeCP.exe') at 52241520>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=5624, name='MicrosoftEdgeCP.exe') at 52241688>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=5952, name='InstallAgent.exe') at 52241800>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=6324, name='mmc.exe') at 52241912>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=6396, name='backgroundTaskHost.exe') at 52241968>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=6632, name='MicrosoftEdge.exe') at 52242080>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=6708, name='browser_broker.exe') at 52242304>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=6936, name='TiWorker.exe') at 52242416>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=7260, name='Taskmgr.exe') at 52242472>>
<bound method Process.name of <psutil.Process(pid=7612, name='dllhost.exe') at 52242584>>


From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 09:18:06 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 15:18:06 +0200
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
In-Reply-To: <Q-6dnVRED88e3UrFnZ2dnUU7-TmdnZ2d@giganews.com>
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmoXxZt=TmLh7vjAkJMDR8d0dj6wc=2E5WBYipbEPXSm8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.88.1490036490.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <0ridndb9eIgmukzFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@giganews.com>
 <871stqzqza.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAE6NSRBLg6Z+qfDHVt3b+Hd1W6U+dXNCgsTX0dcYjTbj+MX5wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.100.1490105719.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <Q-6dnVRED88e3UrFnZ2dnUU7-TmdnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRC+scax8EQsPsfDObXWAo026eXkAFN_SF0YZp1uYxhQ1g@mail.gmail.com>

On 26 March 2017 at 06:16, Wildman via Python-list
<python-list at python.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 15:15:14 +0100, Mikhail V wrote:
>
>> And on linux console, by default one does not even have good
>> possibilities for text-mode pseudographics, it was more relevant
>> in DOS where one had rich possibilities and programmable
>> binary fonts.
>>
>> Mikhail
>
> Nonsense.

Why? IIRC I can do good pseudographics on linux only with extended
unicode character sets, so yes it is possible, is that what you mean?


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 09:34:20 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 06:34:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>

with import cgitb; cgitb.enable()

ProgrammingError(1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (1, 'cyta.gr', '' at line 1")

that is all i get form error. error_log doesnt produce errors when iam trying

cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE %s''', 
																																			(pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )

WHY the valued aren't getting substituted wi the aeguments i give it in to work with?


From michael.vilain at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 09:39:17 2017
From: michael.vilain at gmail.com (MeV)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 06:39:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b5d7d7bb-2bf7-4cac-a0d2-7414942e3c7c@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 6:34:30 AM UTC-7, ????? ?????? wrote:
> with import cgitb; cgitb.enable()
> 
> ProgrammingError(1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (1, 'cyta.gr', '' at line 1")
> 
> that is all i get form error. error_log doesnt produce errors when iam trying
> 
> cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE %s''', 
> 																																			(pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
> 
> WHY the valued aren't getting substituted wi the aeguments i give it in to work with?

The % construct is Python 2 and no longer supported in Python 3. You should read up on the "{}" and format method.

https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/inputoutput.html#fancier-output-formatting


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 09:41:31 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 06:41:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8c5f0443-c61b-4059-8d6f-576152d5932d@googlegroups.com>

Ths is the whole snippert i'am trying so you can see what i'm tryong to do.

[code]
		# if bot is contained in hostname update all previous database bot hostname entries with current bot hostname
		for bot in bots:
			if bot in host:
				domain = '.'.join( host.split('.')[-2:] )

				cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE %s''', 
																																			(pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
				if cur.rowcount():
					botfound = True
					break
[/code]

As if i have a syntactical error in someplace which i'am faling to see or PyMySQL wants special treatment regarding escaping special characters.


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 09:43:17 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 06:43:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <b5d7d7bb-2bf7-4cac-a0d2-7414942e3c7c@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <b5d7d7bb-2bf7-4cac-a0d2-7414942e3c7c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2f7884c8-6c0a-49f6-b4f3-a6c48d7f2f5a@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 4:39:44 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? MeV ??????:
> On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 6:34:30 AM UTC-7, ????? ?????? wrote:
> > with import cgitb; cgitb.enable()
> > 
> > ProgrammingError(1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (1, 'cyta.gr', '' at line 1")
> > 
> > that is all i get form error. error_log doesnt produce errors when iam trying
> > 
> > cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE %s''', 
> > 																																			(pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
> > 
> > WHY the valued aren't getting substituted wi the aeguments i give it in to work with?
> 
> The % construct is Python 2 and no longer supported in Python 3. You should read up on the "{}" and format method.
> 
> https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/inputoutput.html#fancier-output-formatting

Even with '{}' instead of '%s' iam still receiving similar errors.
And lathough iam using '%s' up until now substituting worked okey.

its htis where LIKE clause that is only failing.


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 09:48:49 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 06:48:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <b5d7d7bb-2bf7-4cac-a0d2-7414942e3c7c@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <b5d7d7bb-2bf7-4cac-a0d2-7414942e3c7c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5103a14c-ea92-4997-a807-8d614a567ba4@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 4:39:44 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? MeV ??????:
> On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 6:34:30 AM UTC-7, ????? ?????? wrote:
> > with import cgitb; cgitb.enable()
> > 
> > ProgrammingError(1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (1, 'cyta.gr', '' at line 1")
> > 
> > that is all i get form error. error_log doesnt produce errors when iam trying
> > 
> > cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE %s''', 
> > 																																			(pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
> > 
> > WHY the valued aren't getting substituted wi the aeguments i give it in to work with?
> 
> The % construct is Python 2 and no longer supported in Python 3. You should read up on the "{}" and format method.
> 
> https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/inputoutput.html#fancier-output-formatting

[code]
cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES ({}, {}, {}, {}, {}, {}, {}) WHERE host LIKE "{}"''', 
																																			(pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
[/code]

now has the following response inside error_log

[code]
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940077 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215: Error in sys.excepthook:
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940126 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215: Traceback (most recent call last):
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940151 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215:   File "/usr/local/lib/python3.5/cgitb.py", line 268, in __call__
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940166 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215:     self.handle((etype, evalue, etb))
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940189 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215:   File "/usr/local/lib/python3.5/cgitb.py", line 273, in handle
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940200 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215:     self.file.write(reset())
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940220 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215: ValueError: underlying buffer has been detached
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940225 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215: 
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940235 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215: Original exception was:
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940249 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215: Traceback (most recent call last):
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940265 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215:   File "metrites.py", line 355, in <module>
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940298 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215:     (pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940329 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215:   File "/usr/local/lib/python3.5/site-packages/pymysql/cursors.py", line 144, in execute
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940343 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215:     query = self.mogrify(query, args)
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940379 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215:   File "/usr/local/lib/python3.5/site-packages/pymysql/cursors.py", line 135, in mogrify
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940398 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215:     query = query % self._escape_args(args, conn)
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940420 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215: TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting
[/code]


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 09:52:57 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 06:52:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <5103a14c-ea92-4997-a807-8d614a567ba4@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <b5d7d7bb-2bf7-4cac-a0d2-7414942e3c7c@googlegroups.com>
 <5103a14c-ea92-4997-a807-8d614a567ba4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d038b64a-6606-4ca3-95af-660584e37557@googlegroups.com>

cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES ({}, {}, {}, {}, {}, {}, {}) WHERE host LIKE "{}"'''.format(pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )

Same kind of output in the error-log even with this attempt.


From songofacandy at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 10:03:54 2017
From: songofacandy at gmail.com (INADA Naoki)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 23:03:54 +0900
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 10:34 PM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
> with import cgitb; cgitb.enable()
>
> ProgrammingError(1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (1, 'cyta.gr', '' at line 1")
>
> that is all i get form error. error_log doesnt produce errors when iam trying
>

This error came from MySQL.  If there are no logs in error_log, it's
your configuration issue.

See https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.7/en/update.html for Update
statement syntax.


From frank at chagford.com  Sun Mar 26 10:07:34 2017
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 16:07:34 +0200
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <8c5f0443-c61b-4059-8d6f-576152d5932d@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <8c5f0443-c61b-4059-8d6f-576152d5932d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ob8hv3$955$1@blaine.gmane.org>

"????? ??????"  wrote in message 
news:8c5f0443-c61b-4059-8d6f-576152d5932d at googlegroups.com...

>
> cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, 
> browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE 
> %s''',
> (pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
>
> As if i have a syntactical error in someplace which i'am faling to see or 
> PyMySQL wants special treatment regarding escaping special characters.
>

I don't know MySQL, but for most RDBMS's, the construction you show only 
works for INSERT statements.

For UPDATE, you usually have to say -
    UPDATE {table} SET col_1 = val_1, col_2 = val_2 WHERE col_3 = val_3 ...

Frank Millman




From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 10:07:35 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 07:07:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 5:04:27 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? INADA Naoki This error came from MySQL.  If there are no logs in error_log, it's
> your configuration issue.
> 
> See https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.7/en/update.html for Update
> statement syntax.

cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES ({}, {}, {}, {}, {}, {}, {}) WHERE host LIKE "%{}%"'''.format(pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) ) 

output of error-log:

[code] 
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940077 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215: Error in sys.excepthook: 
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940126 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215: Traceback (most recent call last): 
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940151 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215:   File "/usr/local/lib/python3.5/cgitb.py", line 268, in __call__ 
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940166 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215:     self.handle((etype, evalue, etb)) 
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940189 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215:   File "/usr/local/lib/python3.5/cgitb.py", line 273, in handle 
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940200 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215:     self.file.write(reset()) 
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940220 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215: ValueError: underlying buffer has been detached 
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940225 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215: 
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940235 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215: Original exception was: 
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940249 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215: Traceback (most recent call last): 
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940265 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215:   File "metrites.py", line 355, in <module> 
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940298 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215:     (pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) ) 
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940329 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215:   File "/usr/local/lib/python3.5/site-packages/pymysql/cursors.py", line 144, in execute 
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940343 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215:     query = self.mogrify(query, args) 
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940379 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215:   File "/usr/local/lib/python3.5/site-packages/pymysql/cursors.py", line 135, in mogrify 
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940398 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215:     query = query % self._escape_args(args, conn) 
[Sun Mar 26 16:45:50.940420 2017] [cgi:error] [pid 2337] [client 178.59.182.161:13755] AH01215: TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting 
[/code]


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 10:10:57 2017
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 08:10:57 -0600
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <b5d7d7bb-2bf7-4cac-a0d2-7414942e3c7c@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <b5d7d7bb-2bf7-4cac-a0d2-7414942e3c7c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidm3+HtvrG7CSZOZZK4KnzAJ6cG48HfXaGU-Kaeh4K=Uag@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 7:39 AM, MeV <michael.vilain at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 6:34:30 AM UTC-7, ????? ?????? wrote:
>> with import cgitb; cgitb.enable()
>>
>> ProgrammingError(1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (1, 'cyta.gr', '' at line 1")
>>
>> that is all i get form error. error_log doesnt produce errors when iam trying
>>
>> cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE %s''',
>>                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       (pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
>>
>> WHY the valued aren't getting substituted wi the aeguments i give it in to work with?
>
> The % construct is Python 2 and no longer supported in Python 3. You should read up on the "{}" and format method.
>
> https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/inputoutput.html#fancier-output-formatting

Rubbish, it works just fine in Python 3:

Python 3.6.0 (default, Jan  1 2017, 22:51:19)
[GCC 5.4.0 20160609] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> '%s %s' % ('Hello', 'world')
'Hello world'

And contrary to popular belief, it's not even deprecated (although use
of the newer format method is encouraged). What's more, in this case
it's part of the PEP 249 DBAPI specification:
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0249/#paramstyle. As far as I know
pymysql and DBAPI libraries in general don't even accept "{}".


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 10:18:27 2017
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 08:18:27 -0600
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 8:07 AM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
> ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 5:04:27 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? INADA Naoki This error came from MySQL.  If there are no logs in error_log, it's
>> your configuration issue.
>>
>> See https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.7/en/update.html for Update
>> statement syntax.
>
> cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES ({}, {}, {}, {}, {}, {}, {}) WHERE host LIKE "%{}%"'''.format(pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
>
> output of error-log:

You need to change the placeholders back. The poster who told you to
replace them was misinformed.


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 10:24:49 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 07:24:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 5:19:27 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Ian ??????:

> You need to change the placeholders back. The poster who told you to
> replace them was misinformed.

okey altered them back to

cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%%s%" ''', 
																																			(pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )

but now the problem is how to exact;y type the Where HOST like "%%%"

I MEAN HOW TO DIFFERENTIATE '%S' FROM LITERAL '%' character.



From best_lay at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 26 10:28:43 2017
From: best_lay at yahoo.com (Wildman)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 09:28:43 -0500
Subject: Who are the "spacists"?
References: <1489873444l.9830606l.0l@psu.edu>
 <CAPjBxg8yZnQJHvmfV6nFp=+xJw_mPpf1RZ01Dy_eaeYc9DjhmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oam4gt$is4$3@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.42.1489933814.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <58cebff4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <oaot5i$i15$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <58d013c3$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmoXxZt=TmLh7vjAkJMDR8d0dj6wc=2E5WBYipbEPXSm8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.88.1490036490.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <0ridndb9eIgmukzFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@giganews.com>
 <871stqzqza.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAE6NSRBLg6Z+qfDHVt3b+Hd1W6U+dXNCgsTX0dcYjTbj+MX5wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.100.1490105719.30671.python-list@python.org>
 <Q-6dnVRED88e3UrFnZ2dnUU7-TmdnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <CAE6NSRC+scax8EQsPsfDObXWAo026eXkAFN_SF0YZp1uYxhQ1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.14.1490534295.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <TOadnS8Qf9mGTUrFnZ2dnUU7-XOdnZ2d@giganews.com>

On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 15:18:06 +0200, Mikhail V wrote:

> On 26 March 2017 at 06:16, Wildman via Python-list
> <python-list at python.org> wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 15:15:14 +0100, Mikhail V wrote:
>>
>>> And on linux console, by default one does not even have good
>>> possibilities for text-mode pseudographics, it was more relevant
>>> in DOS where one had rich possibilities and programmable
>>> binary fonts.
>>>
>>> Mikhail
>>
>> Nonsense.
> 
> Why? IIRC I can do good pseudographics on linux only with extended
> unicode character sets, so yes it is possible, is that what you mean?

No.  The same ASCII character set that was available in DOS is
available in Linux without unicode.

-- 
<Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453
The cow died so I don't need your bull!


From songofacandy at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 10:32:27 2017
From: songofacandy at gmail.com (INADA Naoki)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 23:32:27 +0900
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAEfz+Txb4p50qwgVTeQihR8ZpqK4tPyUfxB0Ct3heBHekJqwvw@mail.gmail.com>

> I MEAN HOW TO DIFFERENTIATE '%S' FROM LITERAL '%' character.
>

>>> '%% %s %%s' % (42,)
'% 42 %s'

Use %%


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 10:35:47 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 14:35:47 +0000
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <CAEfz+Txb4p50qwgVTeQihR8ZpqK4tPyUfxB0Ct3heBHekJqwvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+Txb4p50qwgVTeQihR8ZpqK4tPyUfxB0Ct3heBHekJqwvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Vb2THUHuVt5-yi1aaoRJsMKQ71y0EpPkAE3bSxr7dgFDv6Jg@mail.gmail.com>

i have tried that 2 days ago.

Problem is that you maintained space before and after '%s'  which wont work
within like

How would you type it without space as in "%%s%" ?

???? ???, 26 ??? 2017 ???? 5:32 ?.?., ?/? INADA Naoki <
songofacandy at gmail.com> ??????:

> > I MEAN HOW TO DIFFERENTIATE '%S' FROM LITERAL '%' character.
> >
>
> >>> '%% %s %%s' % (42,)
> '% 42 %s'
>
> Use %%
>
-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!


From songofacandy at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 10:38:35 2017
From: songofacandy at gmail.com (INADA Naoki)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 23:38:35 +0900
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <CA+Vb2THUHuVt5-yi1aaoRJsMKQ71y0EpPkAE3bSxr7dgFDv6Jg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+Txb4p50qwgVTeQihR8ZpqK4tPyUfxB0Ct3heBHekJqwvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Vb2THUHuVt5-yi1aaoRJsMKQ71y0EpPkAE3bSxr7dgFDv6Jg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEfz+Tz54YCkTFAsyHUzKzYkVFnJ1pA5X-ArSQ7E3oq_G+4wjg@mail.gmail.com>

I used space only for readability.  It's not required.

>>> '%%%s%%' % (42,)
'%42%'

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 11:35 PM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
> i have tried that 2 days ago.
>
> Problem is that you maintained space before and after '%s'  which wont work
> within like
>
> How would you type it without space as in "%%s%" ?
>
> ???? ???, 26 ??? 2017 ???? 5:32 ?.?., ?/? INADA Naoki
> <songofacandy at gmail.com> ??????:
>>
>> > I MEAN HOW TO DIFFERENTIATE '%S' FROM LITERAL '%' character.
>> >
>>
>> >>> '%% %s %%s' % (42,)
>> '% 42 %s'
>>
>> Use %%
>
> --
> What is now proved was at first only imagined!


From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Sun Mar 26 10:38:47 2017
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 14:38:47 GMT
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <XnQBA.582751$w46.272327@fx39.am4>

On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 07:24:49 -0700, ????? ?????? wrote:

> ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 5:19:27 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Ian ??????:
> 
>> You need to change the placeholders back. The poster who told you to
>> replace them was misinformed.
> 
> okey altered them back to
> 
> cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location,
> useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host
> LIKE "%%s%" ''',
> 
																																			
(pID, domain, ref, location, useros,
> 
																																			
browser, lastvisit, domain) )
> 
> but now the problem is how to exact;y type the Where HOST like "%%%"
> 
> I MEAN HOW TO DIFFERENTIATE '%S' FROM LITERAL '%' character.


as a quick thought (untested) it is probably best to have %s as your 
parameter for the Like clause & ad the sql wild-cards (% symbols) to the 
data you pass in as I think the expansion of %s adds quote marks which 
will certainly cause the sql parser issues.
  


-- 
'Charity ain't giving people what you wants to give, it's giving people 
what they need to get.'
(Hogfather)


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Sun Mar 26 10:40:33 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 01:40:33 +1100
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <58d7d2e2$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 01:24 am, ????? ?????? wrote:


> I MEAN HOW TO DIFFERENTIATE '%S' FROM LITERAL '%' character.

Use %% for a literal percent character.


py> '%s %% %s' % ('hello', 'world')
'hello % world'



-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 10:41:07 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 14:41:07 +0000
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <CAEfz+Tz54YCkTFAsyHUzKzYkVFnJ1pA5X-ArSQ7E3oq_G+4wjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+Txb4p50qwgVTeQihR8ZpqK4tPyUfxB0Ct3heBHekJqwvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Vb2THUHuVt5-yi1aaoRJsMKQ71y0EpPkAE3bSxr7dgFDv6Jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+Tz54YCkTFAsyHUzKzYkVFnJ1pA5X-ArSQ7E3oq_G+4wjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Vb2TGn1dvBMP+0JMMMBoMiTnbOzC_HHorZMryj_=ovQhufbg@mail.gmail.com>

I see thank you for pointing that out.

Now i'm receiving no error in error_log but when i'm running the script

it displays this:

ProgrammingError(1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the
manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax
to use near '(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES
(1, 'cyta.gr', '' at line 1")

How to test this further?

???? ???, 26 ??? 2017 ???? 5:38 ?.?., ?/? INADA Naoki <
songofacandy at gmail.com> ??????:

> I used space only for readability.  It's not required.
>
> >>> '%%%s%%' % (42,)
> '%42%'
>
> On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 11:35 PM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > i have tried that 2 days ago.
> >
> > Problem is that you maintained space before and after '%s'  which wont
> work
> > within like
> >
> > How would you type it without space as in "%%s%" ?
> >
> > ???? ???, 26 ??? 2017 ???? 5:32 ?.?., ?/? INADA Naoki
> > <songofacandy at gmail.com> ??????:
> >>
> >> > I MEAN HOW TO DIFFERENTIATE '%S' FROM LITERAL '%' character.
> >> >
> >>
> >> >>> '%% %s %%s' % (42,)
> >> '% 42 %s'
> >>
> >> Use %%
> >
> > --
> > What is now proved was at first only imagined!
>
-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 10:43:51 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 07:43:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <XnQBA.582751$w46.272327@fx39.am4>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <XnQBA.582751$w46.272327@fx39.am4>
Message-ID: <46060114-0322-4347-8b46-121d7c9605c9@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 5:38:57 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? alister ??????:
> On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 07:24:49 -0700, ????? ?????? wrote:
> 
> > ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 5:19:27 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Ian ??????:
> > 
> >> You need to change the placeholders back. The poster who told you to
> >> replace them was misinformed.
> > 
> > okey altered them back to
> > 
> > cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location,
> > useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host
> > LIKE "%%s%" ''',
> > 
> 																																			
> (pID, domain, ref, location, useros,
> > 
> 																																			
> browser, lastvisit, domain) )
> > 
> > but now the problem is how to exact;y type the Where HOST like "%%%"
> > 
> > I MEAN HOW TO DIFFERENTIATE '%S' FROM LITERAL '%' character.
> 
> 
> as a quick thought (untested) it is probably best to have %s as your 
> parameter for the Like clause & ad the sql wild-cards (% symbols) to the 
> data you pass in as I think the expansion of %s adds quote marks which 
> will certainly cause the sql parser issues.

How do you propose writing that cur.execute statement Alister?



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 10:48:07 2017
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 08:48:07 -0600
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 8:24 AM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
> ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 5:19:27 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Ian ??????:
>
>> You need to change the placeholders back. The poster who told you to
>> replace them was misinformed.
>
> okey altered them back to
>
> cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%%s%" ''',
>                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         (pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
>
> but now the problem is how to exact;y type the Where HOST like "%%%"
>
> I MEAN HOW TO DIFFERENTIATE '%S' FROM LITERAL '%' character.

The database wrapper won't do substitution into the middle of a string
like that. Either concatenate the literal %'s on in the SQL statement
or add them to the string before you pass it in, i.e. '%' + domain +
'%' or '%%%s%%' % domain or '%{}%'.format(domain).


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Sun Mar 26 11:03:04 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 02:03:04 +1100
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <b5d7d7bb-2bf7-4cac-a0d2-7414942e3c7c@googlegroups.com>
 <5103a14c-ea92-4997-a807-8d614a567ba4@googlegroups.com>
 <d038b64a-6606-4ca3-95af-660584e37557@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <58d7d82a$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 12:52 am, ????? ?????? wrote:

> cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros,
> browser, visits) VALUES ({}, {}, {}, {}, {}, {}, {}) WHERE host LIKE
> "{}"'''.format(pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit,
> domain) )
> 
> Same kind of output in the error-log even with this attempt.


Don't do that! Even if you fix the SQL errors, this is vulnerable to code
injection attacks. If the caller can fool you into using a specially-made
string for any of those parameters (pID, domain, ref, ...) they can execute
any SQL code they like, without your knowledge.

https://xkcd.com/327/

http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Little_Bobby_Tables


See also:

http://bobby-tables.com/



-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 11:11:34 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 08:11:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 5:49:00 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Ian ??????:

> The database wrapper won't do substitution into the middle of a string
> like that. Either concatenate the literal %'s on in the SQL statement
> or add them to the string before you pass it in, i.e. '%' + domain +
> '%' or '%%%s%%' % domain or '%{}%'.format(domain).

I just tried:

domain = '.'.join( host.split('.')[-2:] )
domain = '%' + domain + '%'

cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%s" ''', 
																																			(pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )


and i received no error in the error_log but
ProgrammingError(1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (1, '%cyta.gr%', ' at line 1")

which you can see at http://superhost.gr

You said somethign about concatenating the literal % in the SQL to which i didnt actually i understand how to implement.


From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 11:17:23 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 17:17:23 +0200
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>

On 26 March 2017 at 16:28, Wildman via Python-list
<python-list at python.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 15:18:06 +0200, Mikhail V wrote:
>
>> On 26 March 2017 at 06:16, Wildman via Python-list
>> <python-list at python.org> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 15:15:14 +0100, Mikhail V wrote:
>>>
>>>> And on linux console, by default one does not even have good
>>>> possibilities for text-mode pseudographics, it was more relevant
>>>> in DOS where one had rich possibilities and programmable
>>>> binary fonts.
>>>>
>>>> Mikhail
>>>
>>> Nonsense.
>>
>> Why? IIRC I can do good pseudographics on linux only with extended
>> unicode character sets, so yes it is possible, is that what you mean?
>
> No.  The same ASCII character set that was available in DOS is
> available in Linux without unicode.

Ok, now I have read that one can change the encoding in the terminal
to get same table drawing characters (if one does not want to use
unicode).
But such a question: can one do it programmaticaly?
And more important: can one use binary (bitmap) fonts in default modern
linux console? If yes, can one patch them with custom tiles at
the application start?
In DOS, (I don't remember if in all versions or only some)
one could do all this and this opens very rich possibilities for
approximating of objects with tiles. The only limitations
that one uses 255 tiles, but even this enables to build
whole 'worlds' and state of the art apps. So I would call this
pseudographics and not few sticks and corner tiles
(which I cannot even define and upload easily).


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Sun Mar 26 11:18:54 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 02:18:54 +1100
Subject: Python question
References: <58d79003$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <20170326113524.GA2791@cskk.homeip.net>
 <mailman.13.1490529342.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58d7dbe0$0$1603$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 10:35 pm, Cameron Simpson wrote:

> On 26Mar2017 20:55, Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 01:55 pm, cs at zip.com.au wrote:
>>> 1: He BCCed the list, not us individually. Look at the headers.
>>
>>BCCed addresses aren't visible in the headers. That's why they're BLIND
>>CC.
> 
> Of course, but the received headers etc show it passed though the list.

Sending to the list is not a bad thing. We know the OP sent to the list,
because his post appeared on the list :-)

The question is whether he BCCed a bunch of regulars or not.

[...]
> If the headers say it went though the list, _that_ copy went through the
> list, _not_ to your personal address (well, not from him; of course the
> list delivered it to you).

Unfortunately I deleted the email so I can't look at the headers, but
nevertheless I can categorically say that it didn't come from the mailing
list, because the python-list at python.org mailing list doesn't have my
address. I've always read this though the newsgroup.

I do still have the relevant mail logs:

Mar 25 03:08:36 ando postfix/smtpd[24188]: connect from
  mail-wr0-f194.google.com[209.85.128.194]
Mar 25 03:08:37 ando postfix/smtpd[24188]: 2093D1204E2:
  client=mail-wr0-f194.google.com[209.85.128.194]
Mar 25 03:08:37 ando postfix/cleanup[24192]: 2093D1204E2:
  message-id=<CAA+hu4Woa_D8-=PGTLVZqsvr7U42uMeBfHCio+ZS1amCS
  cCPDw at mail.gmail.com>
Mar 25 03:08:37 ando postfix/qmgr[3004]: 2093D1204E2:
  from=<abdul.sw84 at gmail.com>, size=3258, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Mar 25 03:08:38 ando postfix/smtpd[24188]: disconnect from
  mail-wr0-f194.google.com[209.85.128.194]

I'm not an expert, but to me that looks pretty convincing that the email
came directly from Google, not from the mailing list. Am I wrong?


>>Your interpretation doesn't explain why I received a copy sent to my
>>personal email address. I read this via the newsgroup comp.lang.python,
>>not the mailing list, and I'm not subscribed to the email mailing list. If
>>the OP had merely BCCed the mailing list, I wouldn't have received a copy
>>in my personal inbox.
> 
> Fair point. Though I thought I only got one copy, might be wrong.

Maybe you weren't one of the people he BCCed :-)





-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 11:19:49 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 08:19:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58de5edb-5fc8-461a-908d-d275b7825794@googlegroups.com>

domain = '.'.join( host.split('.')[-2:] )

domain = '%' + domain + '%' 
domain = '%%%s%%' % domain 
domain = '%{}%'.format(domain)

cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%s" ''', 
																																			(pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )

i just tried both of these 3 ways and the database wrapper failed on all of them respectively.

they gave no error_log output though just the usual
ProgrammingError(1064, .....)


From breamoreboy at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 11:20:04 2017
From: breamoreboy at gmail.com (breamoreboy at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 08:20:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.17.1490537500.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <b5d7d7bb-2bf7-4cac-a0d2-7414942e3c7c@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidm3+HtvrG7CSZOZZK4KnzAJ6cG48HfXaGU-Kaeh4K=Uag@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.17.1490537500.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <828969c6-4885-47dd-9d6a-1b118f9d4d14@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 3:11:50 PM UTC+1, Ian wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 7:39 AM, MeV wrote:
> > On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 6:34:30 AM UTC-7, ????? ?????? wrote:
> >> with import cgitb; cgitb.enable()
> >>
> >> ProgrammingError(1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (1, 'cyta.gr', '' at line 1")
> >>
> >> that is all i get form error. error_log doesnt produce errors when iam trying
> >>
> >> cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE %s''',
> >>                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       (pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
> >>
> >> WHY the valued aren't getting substituted wi the aeguments i give it in to work with?
> >
> > The % construct is Python 2 and no longer supported in Python 3. You should read up on the "{}" and format method.
> >
> > https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/inputoutput.html#fancier-output-formatting
> 
> Rubbish, it works just fine in Python 3:
> 
> Python 3.6.0 (default, Jan  1 2017, 22:51:19)
> [GCC 5.4.0 20160609] on linux
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> '%s %s' % ('Hello', 'world')
> 'Hello world'
> 
> And contrary to popular belief, it's not even deprecated (although use
> of the newer format method is encouraged). What's more, in this case
> it's part of the PEP 249 DBAPI specification:
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0249/#paramstyle. As far as I know
> pymysql and DBAPI libraries in general don't even accept "{}".

There was quite a chat about the issue of deprecated or not http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/python/dev/969817

Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 11:27:44 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 02:27:44 +1100
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmogfLK_JvAir8=Ha3SRxLuOgDBtSyDt9nQSw8Fu9Z16Vw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 2:11 AM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
> ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 5:49:00 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Ian ??????:
>
>> The database wrapper won't do substitution into the middle of a string
>> like that. Either concatenate the literal %'s on in the SQL statement
>> or add them to the string before you pass it in, i.e. '%' + domain +
>> '%' or '%%%s%%' % domain or '%{}%'.format(domain).
>
> I just tried:
>
> domain = '.'.join( host.split('.')[-2:] )
> domain = '%' + domain + '%'
>
> cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%s" ''',
>                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         (pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
>
>
> and i received no error in the error_log but
> ProgrammingError(1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (1, '%cyta.gr%', ' at line 1")
>
> which you can see at http://superhost.gr
>
> You said somethign about concatenating the literal % in the SQL to which i didnt actually i understand how to implement.

Stop panicking.

Stop just trying one thing very quickly, getting an error message, and
firing a post back to this list.

Slow down and read the messages you are getting.

You have already been told about UPDATE queries not using this syntax,
and the error message is referring to that. You have an error in your
SQL syntax; **check the manual**.

This is the same problem that you had the last time you were here on
this list - you had a different email address then, and I can't
remember what name you were going by, but I won't quickly forget
superhost.gr, which at the moment looks like Geocities found a new
domain name.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 11:37:11 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 02:37:11 +1100
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 2:17 AM, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Why? IIRC I can do good pseudographics on linux only with extended
>>> unicode character sets, so yes it is possible, is that what you mean?
>>
>> No.  The same ASCII character set that was available in DOS is
>> available in Linux without unicode.
>
> Ok, now I have read that one can change the encoding in the terminal
> to get same table drawing characters (if one does not want to use
> unicode).

Just use Unicode. Everything else, these days, is a subset of Unicode
anyway. Unless you're stuck on the default Windows shell/terminal, you
should be able to use UTF-8 everywhere and have the entire Unicode
range available. For example, the IBM OEM box-drawing characters are
available in Code Page 437... or as Unicode code points in the U+25xx
range.

> But such a question: can one do it programmaticaly?

Set everything to UTF-8 and you don't have to.

> And more important: can one use binary (bitmap) fonts in default modern
> linux console? If yes, can one patch them with custom tiles at
> the application start?

If you really need something completely custom, it's not text any
more. For example, suppose you redefine all the character images, and
then someone copies and pastes into a web browser - can they search
the web for the characters you're displaying, and will they mean the
same things? If you've redefined images arbitrarily, they won't.

More likely, you don't truly need something custom - what you need is
a different subset of characters (maybe you need to mix Latin, Greek,
and Hebrew letters, in order to show interlinear translation of the
Bible). Instead of messing around with character sets, you can just
use Unicode and have all of them available.

> In DOS, (I don't remember if in all versions or only some)
> one could do all this and this opens very rich possibilities for
> approximating of objects with tiles. The only limitations
> that one uses 255 tiles, but even this enables to build
> whole 'worlds' and state of the art apps. So I would call this
> pseudographics and not few sticks and corner tiles
> (which I cannot even define and upload easily).

Yeah; if my memory serves me, this was an IBM BIOS feature, so all
versions of DOS would be equally able to do it. But it's basically a
form of tile graphics, not text. Given how easily graphical programs
can be built these days, I would strongly recommend that, rather than
abusing pseudo-text as pseudo-graphics. Pick up Tk or GTK or wxWindows
or something, or build your app to run in a web browser, or something
like that.

If what you're doing really is text, just with custom images, you MAY
be able to ask your users to install a TTF or something. But I
wouldn't use a program that demands that I reconfigure my terminal.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 11:38:14 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 02:38:14 +1100
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpu-BkwR9HapBjGc_BsVOPDXm8cNbPejdzXeDwoP9q9TQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 2:37 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> Just use Unicode. Everything else, these days, is a subset of Unicode
> anyway.

(Caveat: There are a few counter-examples to my statement, but I very
much doubt that someone who's talking about PC OEM graphics is going
to be running into them.)

ChrisA


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Sun Mar 26 11:38:51 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 02:38:51 +1100
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 02:11 am, ????? ?????? wrote:

> I just tried:
> 
> domain = '.'.join( host.split('.')[-2:] )
> domain = '%' + domain + '%'
> 
> cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros,
> browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%s"
> ''', (pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
> 
> and i received no error in the error_log but
> ProgrammingError(1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the
> manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right
> syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser,
> visits) VALUES (1, '%cyta.gr%', ' at line 1")

Start by following the instructions given:

    check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version 
    for the right syntax to use

just like the error message tells you to do.

Are you sure that the domain needs to have leading and trailing percentage
signs? "%cyta.gr%" instead of "cyta.gr"?

Are you sure that the LIKE clause needs double quotes?

    LIKE "%s"

Perhaps MariaDB requires single quotes:

    LIKE '%s'

or perhaps no quotes at all:

    LIKE %s


But I'm just guessing, because I haven't read the MariaDB manual. You should
do so.


> which you can see at http://superhost.gr

Ah, Nikos, its been a long time! I thought I recognised your style of
posting.




-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 11:40:40 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 08:40:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.28.1490542072.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmogfLK_JvAir8=Ha3SRxLuOgDBtSyDt9nQSw8Fu9Z16Vw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.28.1490542072.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7c8316dd-189e-4d30-88f0-0c3240640aec@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 6:28:12 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Chris Angelico ??????:
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 2:11 AM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 5:49:00 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Ian ??????:
> >
> >> The database wrapper won't do substitution into the middle of a string
> >> like that. Either concatenate the literal %'s on in the SQL statement
> >> or add them to the string before you pass it in, i.e. '%' + domain +
> >> '%' or '%%%s%%' % domain or '%{}%'.format(domain).
> >
> > I just tried:
> >
> > domain = '.'.join( host.split('.')[-2:] )
> > domain = '%' + domain + '%'
> >
> > cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%s" ''',
> >                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         (pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
> >
> >
> > and i received no error in the error_log but
> > ProgrammingError(1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (1, '%cyta.gr%', ' at line 1")
> >
> > which you can see at http://superhost.gr
> >
> > You said somethign about concatenating the literal % in the SQL to which i didnt actually i understand how to implement.
> 
> Stop panicking.
> 
> Stop just trying one thing very quickly, getting an error message, and
> firing a post back to this list.
> 
> Slow down and read the messages you are getting.
> 
> You have already been told about UPDATE queries not using this syntax,
> and the error message is referring to that. You have an error in your
> SQL syntax; **check the manual**.

> This is the same problem that you had the last time you were here on
> this list - you had a different email address then, and I can't
> remember what name you were going by, but I won't quickly forget
> superhost.gr, which at the moment looks like Geocities found a new
> domain name.
> 
> ChrisA

I'am reading all the answers and trying everything mentioned.

As for the SQL syntax i dont see where the error is.
I use many UPDATE statements within my scripts in exactyly the same why i have been showing them to you.
The only UPDATE is failing is this one with the LIKE clause.

I think that Ian's is correct saying that the substitution is ain't done as we intend form the database wrapper which is PyMYSQL.

And last but not least it would be nice if you actually made a contributing comment regarding to my questions(which bothers me 3 days in a row by now) instead of making ironic remarks related to how my website looks like aesthitically to you.


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 11:48:42 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 08:48:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <016ed5d7-676d-420b-9e41-123e1fab0b5b@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 6:39:01 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Steve D'Aprano ??????:
> On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 02:11 am, ????? ?????? wrote:
> 
> > I just tried:
> > 
> > domain = '.'.join( host.split('.')[-2:] )
> > domain = '%' + domain + '%'
> > 
> > cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros,
> > browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%s"
> > ''', (pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
> > 
> > and i received no error in the error_log but
> > ProgrammingError(1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the
> > manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right
> > syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser,
> > visits) VALUES (1, '%cyta.gr%', ' at line 1")
> 
> Start by following the instructions given:
> 
>     check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version 
>     for the right syntax to use
> 
> just like the error message tells you to do.
> 
> Are you sure that the domain needs to have leading and trailing percentage
> signs? "%cyta.gr%" instead of "cyta.gr"?
> 
> Are you sure that the LIKE clause needs double quotes?
> 
>     LIKE "%s"
> 
> Perhaps MariaDB requires single quotes:
> 
>     LIKE '%s'
> 
> or perhaps no quotes at all:
> 
>     LIKE %s
> 
> 
> But I'm just guessing, because I haven't read the MariaDB manual. You should
> do so.
> 
> 
> > which you can see at http://superhost.gr
> 
> Ah, Nikos, its been a long time! I thought I recognised your style of
> posting.


Howdy Steve!
Yes its me and yes its have been a long time! How are you?!

Yeap still trying to make my webiste better and better every day.

As for MariaDB i tried with single/double/no_quoting at all and it still produces 
ProgrammingError(1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (1, 'cyta.gr', '' at line 1")

I think that Ian Kelly is right and it has soemthign to do with the databse wrapper not substituting properly the actual string contain in the LIKE clause between the double quotes.

Perhaps i need to change pymysql with some other database interface or there is something other than that?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 11:58:02 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 02:58:02 +1100
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <016ed5d7-676d-420b-9e41-123e1fab0b5b@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <016ed5d7-676d-420b-9e41-123e1fab0b5b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpS6ObR0hoY2YWyCcZ7Ppoks_yYVq-GP3eS2E+PbUmYmw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 2:48 AM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > which you can see at http://superhost.gr
>>
>> Ah, Nikos, its been a long time! I thought I recognised your style of
>> posting.
>
>
> Howdy Steve!
> Yes its me and yes its have been a long time! How are you?!
>

Irony lost.

ChrisA


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 12:01:32 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 09:01:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <016ed5d7-676d-420b-9e41-123e1fab0b5b@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <016ed5d7-676d-420b-9e41-123e1fab0b5b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2e3de441-dae1-487d-8bcd-a87fa626246b@googlegroups.com>

Currently to avoid any misinformations my code looks as follows:

domain = '.'.join( host.split('.')[-2:] )
domain_query = '%%%s' % domain

cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE %s''', (pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain_query) )

which as i saiddisplays no error in the error_log output just the 

ProgrammingError(1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (1, 'cyta.gr', '' at line 1")

and i'am totally stuck.


From nulla.epistola at web.de  Sun Mar 26 12:03:13 2017
From: nulla.epistola at web.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 18:03:13 +0200
Subject: Installation issue with Python 3.6.1 for 64 bit Windows
In-Reply-To: <58d73d21.56cc370a.298ce.a849@mx.google.com>
References: <58d73d21.56cc370a.298ce.a849@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <41737ee1-d078-3142-cfec-3d161690c889@web.de>

Am 26.03.2017 um 06:01 schrieb arjun.janah:
>
> Hello,
> I am using an HP PC, brought in 2009, which currently has on it Windows 7 Ultimate, Service Pack 1.

Did you do all Windows updates?
>
> System type is 64-bit operating system.
>
> I went to https://www.python.org/downloads/windows/ and chose the following: Download Windows x86-64 executable installerThe downloaded file appeared, in my Downloads folder, as:
>
> python-3.6.1-amd64.exe, with a filesize of 30,657 KB.
>
> I ran the file and it appeared to install properly. But when I tried to run Python from the Windows All Programs menu tab, I got the following message, in a small window by the window with a black screen:
> ------------------------------------------
> python.exe - System Error
> The program can't start because api-ms-win-crt-runtime-l1-1-0.dll is missing from your computer. Try reinstalling the program to fix this problem.------------------------------------------
>
> I tried the following:
>
> (a) restarting Windows and trying again: same result;
>
> (a) running the installer file again and selecting repair:
> this stalled for a long time so I had to abort it;
>
> (b) restarting my computer, running the installer file again and selecting uninstall: this uninstalled Python, so it said;
>
> (c) running the installer file again and choosing install: this installed Python afresh. But then I had the same problem as at the start when I tried to run Python.
>

You need the dll mentioned in the error message, and you won't get it by 
repeatedly installing Python (I don't know why the message tells you to 
do that ...). You will have to get it from Microsoft instead. Googling 
the name of the dll will probably lead you to it quickly, the problem 
seems to be quite common.




From nulla.epistola at web.de  Sun Mar 26 12:03:13 2017
From: nulla.epistola at web.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 18:03:13 +0200
Subject: Installation issue with Python 3.6.1 for 64 bit Windows
In-Reply-To: <58d73d21.56cc370a.298ce.a849@mx.google.com>
References: <58d73d21.56cc370a.298ce.a849@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <41737ee1-d078-3142-cfec-3d161690c889@web.de>

Am 26.03.2017 um 06:01 schrieb arjun.janah:
>
> Hello,
> I am using an HP PC, brought in 2009, which currently has on it Windows 7 Ultimate, Service Pack 1.

Did you do all Windows updates?
>
> System type is 64-bit operating system.
>
> I went to https://www.python.org/downloads/windows/ and chose the following: Download Windows x86-64 executable installerThe downloaded file appeared, in my Downloads folder, as:
>
> python-3.6.1-amd64.exe, with a filesize of 30,657 KB.
>
> I ran the file and it appeared to install properly. But when I tried to run Python from the Windows All Programs menu tab, I got the following message, in a small window by the window with a black screen:
> ------------------------------------------
> python.exe - System Error
> The program can't start because api-ms-win-crt-runtime-l1-1-0.dll is missing from your computer. Try reinstalling the program to fix this problem.------------------------------------------
>
> I tried the following:
>
> (a) restarting Windows and trying again: same result;
>
> (a) running the installer file again and selecting repair:
> this stalled for a long time so I had to abort it;
>
> (b) restarting my computer, running the installer file again and selecting uninstall: this uninstalled Python, so it said;
>
> (c) running the installer file again and choosing install: this installed Python afresh. But then I had the same problem as at the start when I tried to run Python.
>

You need the dll mentioned in the error message, and you won't get it by 
repeatedly installing Python (I don't know why the message tells you to 
do that ...). You will have to get it from Microsoft instead. Googling 
the name of the dll will probably lead you to it quickly, the problem 
seems to be quite common.



From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 12:05:26 2017
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 12:05:26 -0400
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <016ed5d7-676d-420b-9e41-123e1fab0b5b@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <016ed5d7-676d-420b-9e41-123e1fab0b5b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+yvV1kjUWLWBJyD+OndYpDP42BrFdmvPH9mFV+9mDz-Ug@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 11:48 AM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
> ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 6:39:01 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Steve D'Aprano ??????:
>> On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 02:11 am, ????? ?????? wrote:
>>
>> > I just tried:
>> >
>> > domain = '.'.join( host.split('.')[-2:] )
>> > domain = '%' + domain + '%'
>> >
>> > cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros,
>> > browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%s"
>> > ''', (pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
>> >
>> > and i received no error in the error_log but
>> > ProgrammingError(1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the
>> > manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right
>> > syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser,
>> > visits) VALUES (1, '%cyta.gr%', ' at line 1")
>>
>> Start by following the instructions given:
>>
>>     check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version
>>     for the right syntax to use
>>
>> just like the error message tells you to do.
>>
>> Are you sure that the domain needs to have leading and trailing percentage
>> signs? "%cyta.gr%" instead of "cyta.gr"?
>>
>> Are you sure that the LIKE clause needs double quotes?
>>
>>     LIKE "%s"
>>
>> Perhaps MariaDB requires single quotes:
>>
>>     LIKE '%s'
>>
>> or perhaps no quotes at all:
>>
>>     LIKE %s
>>
>>
>> But I'm just guessing, because I haven't read the MariaDB manual. You should
>> do so.
>>
>>
>> > which you can see at http://superhost.gr
>>
>> Ah, Nikos, its been a long time! I thought I recognised your style of
>> posting.

Not long enough!
>
>
> Howdy Steve!
> Yes its me and yes its have been a long time! How are you?!
>
> Yeap still trying to make my webiste better and better every day.
>
> As for MariaDB i tried with single/double/no_quoting at all and it still produces
> ProgrammingError(1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (1, 'cyta.gr', '' at line 1")
>
> I think that Ian Kelly is right and it has soemthign to do with the databse wrapper not substituting properly the actual string contain in the LIKE clause between the double quotes.
>
> Perhaps i need to change pymysql with some other database interface or there is something other than that?
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


From eryksun at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 12:39:49 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 16:39:49 +0000
Subject: Installation issue with Python 3.6.1 for 64 bit Windows
In-Reply-To: <58d73d21.56cc370a.298ce.a849@mx.google.com>
References: <58d73d21.56cc370a.298ce.a849@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1ausOLigqNoqSf3DDOT4kg_v+fpt3rKNjV7b6_09fVyHtQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 4:01 AM, arjun.janah <arjun.janah at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I ran the file and it appeared to install properly. But when I tried to run Python from
> the Windows All Programs menu tab, I got the following message, in a small
> window by the window with a black screen:
> ------------------------------------------
> python.exe - System Error
> The program can't start because api-ms-win-crt-runtime-l1-1-0.dll is missing from
> your computer. Try reinstalling the program to fix this problem.
>
> I tried the following:
>
> (a) restarting Windows and trying again: same result;
>
> (a) running the installer file again and selecting repair:
> this stalled for a long time so I had to abort it;
>
> (b) restarting my computer, running the installer file again and selecting uninstall:
> this uninstalled Python, so it said;
>
> (c) running the installer file again and choosing install: this installed Python afresh.
> But then I had the same problem as at the start when I tried to run Python.

Python's installer should try to install the Universal C runtime
update, but this seems to fail frequently. If you want to help improve
the installer, zip up Python's installation logs that are in your
%Temp% directory to a single zip file; open an issue on
bugs.python.org; and attach the zip file to the issue.

You probably didn't get the CRT update from Windows Update because you
don't have the option enabled to install recommended updates. Anyway,
you can manually download and install Windows6.1-KB3118401-x64.msu
(the 64-bit version for NT 6.1, i.e. Windows 7) from the following
site:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=50410


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 12:56:58 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 09:56:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <d476675c-f89a-4dcf-bff4-725dbdf43564@googlegroups.com>

Any ideas on how to make progress on that?

After all its just an UPDATE with a WHERE clause?!
Do you also think is DBI related issue?


From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 12:57:17 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 18:57:17 +0200
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>

On 26 March 2017 at 17:37, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 2:17 AM, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Why? IIRC I can do good pseudographics on linux only with extended
>>>> unicode character sets, so yes it is possible, is that what you mean?
>>>
>>> No.  The same ASCII character set that was available in DOS is
>>> available in Linux without unicode.
>>
>> Ok, now I have read that one can change the encoding in the terminal
>> to get same table drawing characters (if one does not want to use
>> unicode).
>
> Just use Unicode. Everything else, these days, is a subset of Unicode
> anyway. Unless you're stuck on the default Windows shell/terminal, you
> should be able to use UTF-8 everywhere and have the entire Unicode
> range available.

Yes I am 'stuck' on Windows console, and I use it for what it is
made for - running command line tools.
On Win 7 and 10, I can see UTF-8 chars everywhere.
To be precise, to see entire range of chars, you need a _font_
in which someone have drawn those chars according to their
understanding how those glyphs must look, nothing more.

No need to say, that even for text only, monospaced cannot
represent them even close to satisfying, and for Arabic for example they
look ass ugly in monospaced.
IOW, even a console-like apps would use proportional fonts in the future.


>
>> But such a question: can one do it programmaticaly?
>
> Set everything to UTF-8 and you don't have to.
>
>> And more important: can one use binary (bitmap) fonts in default modern
>> linux console? If yes, can one patch them with custom tiles at
>> the application start?
>
> If you really need something completely custom, it's not text any
> more.

Obvious fact, but if I need e.g. rounded corners in table drawing
characters? Or I just want to fix some characters which look especially ugly?
Create a new TTF? No, thanks, this would be worst nightmare to
do without a special tool (which have prices with several zeros, otherwise
just don't work and can even break things system-wide)

>
> More likely, you don't truly need something custom - what you need is
> a different subset of characters (maybe you need to mix Latin, Greek,
> and Hebrew letters, in order to show interlinear translation of the
> Bible). Instead of messing around with character sets, you can just
> use Unicode and have all of them available.

If I was to deal with multiple language charsets in _my own_ rendering
app, I would still use discrete encoding for inner algorithms.
i.e. I would place separate charsets on separate code ranges.
And for own standalone app, I would not use any TTF or
anything vector-based font, since why?

>
>> In DOS, (I don't remember if in all versions or only some)
>> one could do all this and this opens very rich possibilities for
>> approximating of objects with tiles. The only limitations
>> that one uses 255 tiles, but even this enables to build
>> whole 'worlds' and state of the art apps. So I would call this
>> pseudographics and not few sticks and corner tiles
>> (which I cannot even define and upload easily).
>
> Yeah; if my memory serves me, this was an IBM BIOS feature, so all
> versions of DOS would be equally able to do it. But it's basically a
> form of tile graphics, not text. Given how easily graphical programs
> can be built these days, I would strongly recommend that, rather than
> abusing pseudo-text as pseudo-graphics. Pick up Tk or GTK or wxWindows
> or something, or build your app to run in a web browser, or something
> like that.

Exactly, that is why I do so, and even if one wants to play around
with console hacking, there is not so many documented
ways to do it. In Windows, I can manually select raster fonts,
so in pure theory, one could hack it with custom tiles, but
since it is much easier to use a graphical library today,
too few people are interested in it.

Mikhail


From songofacandy at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 13:05:22 2017
From: songofacandy at gmail.com (INADA Naoki)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 02:05:22 +0900
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <d476675c-f89a-4dcf-bff4-725dbdf43564@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <d476675c-f89a-4dcf-bff4-725dbdf43564@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAEfz+Tzh2sDsC_=nC7UgLMJVX=Zvwpa6OiUxy=MDubJuGVsgKg@mail.gmail.com>

Read my mail again.

> This error came from MySQL.  If there are no logs in error_log, it's
> your configuration issue.

> See https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.7/en/update.html for Update
> statement syntax.


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 13:10:56 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 17:10:56 +0000
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <CAEfz+Tzh2sDsC_=nC7UgLMJVX=Zvwpa6OiUxy=MDubJuGVsgKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <d476675c-f89a-4dcf-bff4-725dbdf43564@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+Tzh2sDsC_=nC7UgLMJVX=Zvwpa6OiUxy=MDubJuGVsgKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Vb2TEAWg_fbuqkypqapZ_7btRXoMs2O93FcsuuqwLz3DfSMg@mail.gmail.com>

I do not see why my UPDATE fails.

cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros,
browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s)''') works

i dont have to update table set column1 = this value, column2=that value
and so on

It's just when the LIKE clause jumps in that is causing all this trouble....

How would you write it?!

???? ???, 26 ??? 2017 ???? 8:05 ?.?., ?/? INADA Naoki <
songofacandy at gmail.com> ??????:

> Read my mail again.
>
> > This error came from MySQL.  If there are no logs in error_log, it's
> > your configuration issue.
>
> > See https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.7/en/update.html for Update
> > statement syntax.
>
-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 13:29:30 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 04:29:30 +1100
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpmbk=WOKfMnxLZdKPOwoDgJURyO73Lvdh8i4QPt=CD7w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 3:57 AM, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 26 March 2017 at 17:37, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 2:17 AM, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Why? IIRC I can do good pseudographics on linux only with extended
>>>>> unicode character sets, so yes it is possible, is that what you mean?
>>>>
>>>> No.  The same ASCII character set that was available in DOS is
>>>> available in Linux without unicode.
>>>
>>> Ok, now I have read that one can change the encoding in the terminal
>>> to get same table drawing characters (if one does not want to use
>>> unicode).
>>
>> Just use Unicode. Everything else, these days, is a subset of Unicode
>> anyway. Unless you're stuck on the default Windows shell/terminal, you
>> should be able to use UTF-8 everywhere and have the entire Unicode
>> range available.
>
> Yes I am 'stuck' on Windows console, and I use it for what it is
> made for - running command line tools.

Not really stuck; even if you can't get off Windows, you should be
able to move off the ancient terminal that you get by default.

> On Win 7 and 10, I can see UTF-8 chars everywhere.
> To be precise, to see entire range of chars, you need a _font_
> in which someone have drawn those chars according to their
> understanding how those glyphs must look, nothing more.

Duh? If you want characters to display, you need a font.... yes...?

> No need to say, that even for text only, monospaced cannot
> represent them even close to satisfying, and for Arabic for example they
> look ass ugly in monospaced.
> IOW, even a console-like apps would use proportional fonts in the future.

Arabic text is written right-to-left. It's a lot more complicated than
just whether your font is monospaced or not, particularly when you mix
strongly-directional characters, weakly-directional characters,
non-directional characters, and explicit directionality markers. If
you mix RTL and LTR text, is the RTL text aligned to the right of the
page, or the left? There is a LOT more than just your font to take
care of here. If you want perfect handling of international text, you
basically need to use a Unicode-compliant text renderer - and
fortunately, most graphical engines these days come with exactly that.

>>> And more important: can one use binary (bitmap) fonts in default modern
>>> linux console? If yes, can one patch them with custom tiles at
>>> the application start?
>>
>> If you really need something completely custom, it's not text any
>> more.
>
> Obvious fact, but if I need e.g. rounded corners in table drawing
> characters? Or I just want to fix some characters which look especially ugly?
> Create a new TTF? No, thanks, this would be worst nightmare to
> do without a special tool (which have prices with several zeros, otherwise
> just don't work and can even break things system-wide)

Rounded corners?

?????
?????
?????

A good font should show this as a rounded box with cross-lines through
it. The characters here are:

U+256D BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT ARC DOWN AND RIGHT
U+2500 BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT HORIZONTAL
U+252C BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT DOWN AND HORIZONTAL
U+2500 BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT HORIZONTAL
U+256E BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT ARC DOWN AND LEFT
U+000A LINE FEED
U+251C BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT VERTICAL AND RIGHT
U+2500 BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT HORIZONTAL
U+253C BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT VERTICAL AND HORIZONTAL
U+2500 BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT HORIZONTAL
U+2524 BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT VERTICAL AND LEFT
U+000A LINE FEED
U+2570 BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT ARC UP AND RIGHT
U+2500 BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT HORIZONTAL
U+2534 BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT UP AND HORIZONTAL
U+2500 BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT HORIZONTAL
U+256F BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT ARC UP AND LEFT
U+000A LINE FEED

And if you think that some characters look ugly, you can create a font
with just those characters in it. Thanks to font substitution, your
font should be used for the characters it defines, but anything it
doesn't will fall back on some other font, so you don't have to create
representations for hundreds of thousands of Unicode characters.

>> More likely, you don't truly need something custom - what you need is
>> a different subset of characters (maybe you need to mix Latin, Greek,
>> and Hebrew letters, in order to show interlinear translation of the
>> Bible). Instead of messing around with character sets, you can just
>> use Unicode and have all of them available.
>
> If I was to deal with multiple language charsets in _my own_ rendering
> app, I would still use discrete encoding for inner algorithms.
> i.e. I would place separate charsets on separate code ranges.
> And for own standalone app, I would not use any TTF or
> anything vector-based font, since why?

Separate code ranges? You mean like allocating U+03xx to Greek, U+04xx
to Cyrillic (Russian and friends), U+06xx to Arabic, etc? Sounds like
a good plan....

>> Yeah; if my memory serves me, this was an IBM BIOS feature, so all
>> versions of DOS would be equally able to do it. But it's basically a
>> form of tile graphics, not text. Given how easily graphical programs
>> can be built these days, I would strongly recommend that, rather than
>> abusing pseudo-text as pseudo-graphics. Pick up Tk or GTK or wxWindows
>> or something, or build your app to run in a web browser, or something
>> like that.
>
> Exactly, that is why I do so, and even if one wants to play around
> with console hacking, there is not so many documented
> ways to do it. In Windows, I can manually select raster fonts,
> so in pure theory, one could hack it with custom tiles, but
> since it is much easier to use a graphical library today,
> too few people are interested in it.

It's easier AND better. Why mess around with the console config when
you can just draw what you need?

ChrisA


From eryksun at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 13:38:38 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 17:38:38 +0000
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1at2OB6r08Mi4aq6yyg0Ps7DwS2YMxvdDR33teJDTZRpOw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 3:37 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Just use Unicode. Everything else, these days, is a subset of Unicode
> anyway. Unless you're stuck on the default Windows shell/terminal, you
> should be able to use UTF-8 everywhere and have the entire Unicode
> range available.

The Windows console can render any character in the BMP, but it
requires configuring font linking for fallback fonts. It's Windows, so
of course the supported UTF format is UTF-16. The console's UTF-8
support (codepage 65001) is too buggy to even consider using it.

I don't know why you mention the shell. It has nothing to do with
this. But, for what it's worth, the cmd shell is a Unicode application
and always has been. It use the console's wide-character API.


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Sun Mar 26 13:43:28 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 04:43:28 +1100
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1490542635.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58d7fdc3$0$1617$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 02:37 am, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 2:17 AM, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Why? IIRC I can do good pseudographics on linux only with extended
>>>> unicode character sets, so yes it is possible, is that what you mean?
>>>
>>> No.  The same ASCII character set that was available in DOS is
>>> available in Linux without unicode.
>>
>> Ok, now I have read that one can change the encoding in the terminal
>> to get same table drawing characters (if one does not want to use
>> unicode).
> 
> Just use Unicode. Everything else, these days, is a subset of Unicode
> anyway. Unless you're stuck on the default Windows shell/terminal, you
> should be able to use UTF-8 everywhere and have the entire Unicode
> range available. For example, the IBM OEM box-drawing characters are
> available in Code Page 437... or as Unicode code points in the U+25xx
> range.

You are absolutely correct in theory, but in practice the availability of
glyphs in most fonts is only a tiny proportion of the Unicode range. And
even when the glyphs are available, the quality often varies: for example,
in all of the monospaced fonts I've looked at, the superscripts ??? are a
different size to ???????, both vertically and horizontally. And I've come
across a few fonts where the box drawing characters don't all line up.

Don't misunderstand me: Unicode is a HUGE improvement over the Bad Old Days
of dozens of incompatible character sets. But let's not pretend that it
makes it *easy*.



[...]
>> And more important: can one use binary (bitmap) fonts in default modern
>> linux console? If yes, can one patch them with custom tiles at
>> the application start?
> 
> If you really need something completely custom, it's not text any
> more. 

That's not quite right. Unicode includes 137000 or so Private Use
Characters, which anyone can define for their own purposes, "by private
agreement". There's an unofficial registry of such private use characters
here:

http://www.evertype.com/standards/csur/

More info here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Use_Areas



> For example, suppose you redefine all the character images, and 
> then someone copies and pastes into a web browser - can they search
> the web for the characters you're displaying, and will they mean the
> same things? If you've redefined images arbitrarily, they won't.
> 
> More likely, you don't truly need something custom - what you need is
> a different subset of characters (maybe you need to mix Latin, Greek,
> and Hebrew letters, in order to show interlinear translation of the
> Bible). Instead of messing around with character sets, you can just
> use Unicode and have all of them available.

Assuming you have a text widget which is capable of displaying LTR and RTL
text, and support for all the glyphs you need.




-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From eryksun at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 13:49:06 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 17:49:06 +0000
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpmbk=WOKfMnxLZdKPOwoDgJURyO73Lvdh8i4QPt=CD7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpmbk=WOKfMnxLZdKPOwoDgJURyO73Lvdh8i4QPt=CD7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1as==3+zpuboVPY5pdEs=7JZXEHPY83C6yuMoXUaReJboA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 5:29 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> Rounded corners?
>
> ?????
> ?????
> ?????

This prints fine in the Windows console with Consolas as the font, but
the older Courier New and Lucida Console fonts lack glyphs for the
rounded corners.


From arjun.janah at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 13:54:11 2017
From: arjun.janah at gmail.com (Arjun Janah)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 13:54:11 -0400
Subject: Installation issue with Python 3.6.1 for 64 bit Windows
In-Reply-To: <CACL+1ausOLigqNoqSf3DDOT4kg_v+fpt3rKNjV7b6_09fVyHtQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <58d73d21.56cc370a.298ce.a849@mx.google.com>
 <CACL+1ausOLigqNoqSf3DDOT4kg_v+fpt3rKNjV7b6_09fVyHtQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADL2ETNoFsWUMirX3UjyGP14++8xONN6fpdb9CmDGt=1LjZa-w@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you, Eryk Sun.

On Mar 26, 2017 12:40 PM, "eryk sun" <eryksun at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 4:01 AM, arjun.janah <arjun.janah at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I ran the file and it appeared to install properly. But when I tried to
> run Python from
> > the Windows All Programs menu tab, I got the following message, in a
> small
> > window by the window with a black screen:
> > ------------------------------------------
> > python.exe - System Error
> > The program can't start because api-ms-win-crt-runtime-l1-1-0.dll is
> missing from
> > your computer. Try reinstalling the program to fix this problem.
> >
> > I tried the following:
> >
> > (a) restarting Windows and trying again: same result;
> >
> > (a) running the installer file again and selecting repair:
> > this stalled for a long time so I had to abort it;
> >
> > (b) restarting my computer, running the installer file again and
> selecting uninstall:
> > this uninstalled Python, so it said;
> >
> > (c) running the installer file again and choosing install: this
> installed Python afresh.
> > But then I had the same problem as at the start when I tried to run
> Python.
>
> Python's installer should try to install the Universal C runtime
> update, but this seems to fail frequently. If you want to help improve
> the installer, zip up Python's installation logs that are in your
> %Temp% directory to a single zip file; open an issue on
> bugs.python.org; and attach the zip file to the issue.
>
> You probably didn't get the CRT update from Windows Update because you
> don't have the option enabled to install recommended updates. Anyway,
> you can manually download and install Windows6.1-KB3118401-x64.msu
> (the 64-bit version for NT 6.1, i.e. Windows 7) from the following
> site:
>
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=50410
>


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 13:54:24 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 10:54:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.39.1490547950.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <d476675c-f89a-4dcf-bff4-725dbdf43564@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+Tzh2sDsC_=nC7UgLMJVX=Zvwpa6OiUxy=MDubJuGVsgKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.39.1490547950.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <61d98fda-e43d-4cdc-addd-86b7aadbbc6c@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 8:06:07 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? INADA Naoki ??????:
> Read my mail again.
> 
> > This error came from MySQL.  If there are no logs in error_log, it's
> > your configuration issue.
> 
> > See https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.7/en/update.html for Update
> > statement syntax.

I cannot understand where the error is.
Could you how it to me please?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 13:58:03 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 04:58:03 +1100
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <CACL+1at2OB6r08Mi4aq6yyg0Ps7DwS2YMxvdDR33teJDTZRpOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1at2OB6r08Mi4aq6yyg0Ps7DwS2YMxvdDR33teJDTZRpOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp+vZbeHq77fBANj7c=NEJE83D_APeQr9VxmLN0zmNj=Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 4:38 AM, eryk sun <eryksun at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 3:37 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Just use Unicode. Everything else, these days, is a subset of Unicode
>> anyway. Unless you're stuck on the default Windows shell/terminal, you
>> should be able to use UTF-8 everywhere and have the entire Unicode
>> range available.
>
> The Windows console can render any character in the BMP, but it
> requires configuring font linking for fallback fonts. It's Windows, so
> of course the supported UTF format is UTF-16. The console's UTF-8
> support (codepage 65001) is too buggy to even consider using it.

Is it actually UTF-16, or is it UCS-2?

> I don't know why you mention the shell. It has nothing to do with
> this. But, for what it's worth, the cmd shell is a Unicode application
> and always has been. It use the console's wide-character API.

Because a lot of people on Windows don't understand the distinction,
and it's common to hear people talk about "cmd.exe" when they really
mean the graphical display. But I'm aware that pedantic correctness
separates them completely.

ChrisA


From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Sun Mar 26 13:58:45 2017
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 17:58:45 GMT
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <XnQBA.582751$w46.272327@fx39.am4>
 <46060114-0322-4347-8b46-121d7c9605c9@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pjTBA.583406$w46.469@fx39.am4>

On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 07:43:51 -0700, ????? ?????? wrote:

> ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 5:38:57 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? alister
> ??????:
>> On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 07:24:49 -0700, ????? ?????? wrote:
>> 
>> > ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 5:19:27 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Ian
>> > ??????:
>> > 
>> >> You need to change the placeholders back. The poster who told you to
>> >> replace them was misinformed.
>> > 
>> > okey altered them back to
>> > 
>> > cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location,
>> > useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE
>> > host LIKE "%%s%" ''',
>> > 
>> > 
>> (pID, domain, ref, location, useros,
>> > 
>> > 
>> browser, lastvisit, domain) )
>> > 
>> > but now the problem is how to exact;y type the Where HOST like "%%%"
>> > 
>> > I MEAN HOW TO DIFFERENTIATE '%S' FROM LITERAL '%' character.
>> 
>> 
>> as a quick thought (untested) it is probably best to have %s as your
>> parameter for the Like clause & ad the sql wild-cards (% symbols) to
>> the data you pass in as I think the expansion of %s adds quote marks
>> which will certainly cause the sql parser issues.
> 
> How do you propose writing that cur.execute statement Alister?


cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location,
>> > useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE
>> > host LIKE %s '''

but you will need to amend the data  you pass so that the last element 
has the surrounding % characters .


-- 
T-1's congested due to porn traffic to the news server.


From eryksun at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 13:59:25 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 17:59:25 +0000
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <CACL+1as==3+zpuboVPY5pdEs=7JZXEHPY83C6yuMoXUaReJboA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpmbk=WOKfMnxLZdKPOwoDgJURyO73Lvdh8i4QPt=CD7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1as==3+zpuboVPY5pdEs=7JZXEHPY83C6yuMoXUaReJboA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1aum=vtBw6O9igvD1ECOJPbJDWrWcbfUcvUqHyO945gM=w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 5:49 PM, eryk sun <eryksun at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 5:29 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Rounded corners?
>>
>> ?????
>> ?????
>> ?????
>
> This prints fine in the Windows console with Consolas as the font, but
> the older Courier New and Lucida Console fonts lack glyphs for the
> rounded corners.

I configured Consolas as a fallback for Lucida Console, and now it
shows the rounded corners in the console, but it beats me why anyone
would do that instead of simply using Consolas.


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Sun Mar 26 14:10:24 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 05:10:24 +1100
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.38.1490547441.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58d80413$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 03:57 am, Mikhail V wrote:

[...]
>>> And more important: can one use binary (bitmap) fonts in default modern
>>> linux console? If yes, can one patch them with custom tiles at
>>> the application start?
>>
>> If you really need something completely custom, it's not text any
>> more.
> 
> Obvious fact, but if I need e.g. rounded corners in table drawing
> characters? Or I just want to fix some characters which look especially
> ugly? Create a new TTF? No, thanks, this would be worst nightmare to
> do without a special tool (which have prices with several zeros, otherwise
> just don't work and can even break things system-wide)

Don't be silly. It took me ten seconds on Google to find this:

https://birdfont.org/

It is no charge for an open source licence, or $5 USD for a commercial
licence. If that's too cheap, you can use FontCreator at just $79:

http://www.high-logic.com/font-editor/fontcreator.html



>> More likely, you don't truly need something custom - what you need is
>> a different subset of characters (maybe you need to mix Latin, Greek,
>> and Hebrew letters, in order to show interlinear translation of the
>> Bible). Instead of messing around with character sets, you can just
>> use Unicode and have all of them available.
> 
> If I was to deal with multiple language charsets in _my own_ rendering
> app, I would still use discrete encoding for inner algorithms.
> i.e. I would place separate charsets on separate code ranges.

Why? Because you think you know better than the thousands of professionals
who have worked with text formats for decades?


> And for own standalone app, I would not use any TTF or
> anything vector-based font, since why?

Right, because your users will *love* to see their native language displayed
in a crappy bitmapped font with jagged or blurry edges.



-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 14:20:59 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 05:20:59 +1100
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <58d7fdc3$0$1617$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1490542635.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58d7fdc3$0$1617$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmre1fm2n6o5t3H6+YkomseQrXunTWmp=58BEmnhEgL23w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 4:43 AM, Steve D'Aprano
<steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 02:37 am, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> Just use Unicode. Everything else, these days, is a subset of Unicode
>> anyway. Unless you're stuck on the default Windows shell/terminal, you
>> should be able to use UTF-8 everywhere and have the entire Unicode
>> range available. For example, the IBM OEM box-drawing characters are
>> available in Code Page 437... or as Unicode code points in the U+25xx
>> range.
>
> You are absolutely correct in theory, but in practice the availability of
> glyphs in most fonts is only a tiny proportion of the Unicode range. And
> even when the glyphs are available, the quality often varies: for example,
> in all of the monospaced fonts I've looked at, the superscripts ??? are a
> different size to ???????, both vertically and horizontally. And I've come
> across a few fonts where the box drawing characters don't all line up.
>
> Don't misunderstand me: Unicode is a HUGE improvement over the Bad Old Days
> of dozens of incompatible character sets. But let's not pretend that it
> makes it *easy*.

Unicode makes it about as easy as it can possibly be, given the
diversity of human languages and their various needs, plus the reality
that nobody has infinite resources for creating fonts. The most
important thing is that you have a single universal specification that
governs the interpretation of text, which means you can aim for that
standard, and if a renderer doesn't match up to it, that's a bug that
can be fixed, not behaviour that has to be maintained for backward
compatibility. So, for instance, Eryk Sun commented that my rounded
box example didn't render correctly in all fonts - but in the future,
a new version of those fonts could be released, adding support for
those characters. We *know* that the code points I used are
permanently and irrevocably allocated to the purposes I used them for,
so we can all be confident that they'll be used correctly if at all.

>>> And more important: can one use binary (bitmap) fonts in default modern
>>> linux console? If yes, can one patch them with custom tiles at
>>> the application start?
>>
>> If you really need something completely custom, it's not text any
>> more.
>
> That's not quite right. Unicode includes 137000 or so Private Use
> Characters, which anyone can define for their own purposes, "by private
> agreement". There's an unofficial registry of such private use characters
> here:
>
> http://www.evertype.com/standards/csur/
>
> More info here:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Use_Areas

This is true, but at some point, it's not text any more. The PUAs are
great if you're working with non-standard forms of text (eg Klingon,
or Elvish), but aren't well suited to arbitrary graphics. You should
be able to copy and paste text from one application into another and
have it retain its meaning; the PUAs weaken this guarantee in that the
applications have to agree to coexist, but within that, the same
ability to copy and paste should hold. It sounds like Mikhail is
trying to warp the console into something pseudo-graphical like a
Roguelike game, but instead of designing the game around available
glyphs, wants to design the glyphs to suit the game - and at that
point, it's time to just go graphical, IMO.

>> More likely, you don't truly need something custom - what you need is
>> a different subset of characters (maybe you need to mix Latin, Greek,
>> and Hebrew letters, in order to show interlinear translation of the
>> Bible). Instead of messing around with character sets, you can just
>> use Unicode and have all of them available.
>
> Assuming you have a text widget which is capable of displaying LTR and RTL
> text, and support for all the glyphs you need.

This is true. Fortunately, some measure of this is available in all
the major GUI toolkits, although some applications need to have their
own handling too. But here's what it takes to have full Unicode
support in my MUD client:

1) Use GTK and Pango. That's the biggest part.
2) Due to the nature of MUDs, RTL text is still left-justified.
3) Due to the interaction of left-justified RTL text and indentation,
special handling is needed for lines that begin with spaces and/or
tabs and then an RTL character. (Solution: Prepend U+200E
LEFT-TO-RIGHT MARK.)
4) Individual lines may be painted in multiple colours, so the text
gets divided up and measured in pieces. I let Pango do the actual
measurements.

That's about it. Basically I just let Pango do all the heavy lifting;
if it says this text in this font takes up this many pixels, that's
how many pixels of width I allocate it. RTL? LTR? Mixed? No problem.
It'll do all that for me.

So yeah. Unicode isn't a panacea, and if you come from an ASCII-only
environment, Unicode will look hard - but it's making life far easier
than the alternatives would be.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 14:29:43 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 05:29:43 +1100
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <58d80413$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.38.1490547441.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58d80413$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr5ikAC8pbuK4wsSKUC++XMdAG7CHocMwcjkQACY9BGcQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:10 AM, Steve D'Aprano
<steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> And for own standalone app, I would not use any TTF or
>> anything vector-based font, since why?
>
> Right, because your users will *love* to see their native language displayed
> in a crappy bitmapped font with jagged or blurry edges.

Side point: I have spent many hours wrestling with VLC to try to get a
subtitles font that looks good for all the world's languages. My
current setup has Latin, Cyrillic, and Greek looking great, Hebrew and
Arabic looking adequate (I'm no expert so I don't know beyond that),
but Thai, Chinese, Japanese, and Korean characters have jagged edges.
Thanks guys. It's 2017 and we're still using bitmap fonts.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 14:32:01 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 05:32:01 +1100
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <61d98fda-e43d-4cdc-addd-86b7aadbbc6c@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
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 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <d476675c-f89a-4dcf-bff4-725dbdf43564@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+Tzh2sDsC_=nC7UgLMJVX=Zvwpa6OiUxy=MDubJuGVsgKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.39.1490547950.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <61d98fda-e43d-4cdc-addd-86b7aadbbc6c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoJxifj2JC4Dnr=2UiCP2rGgLNsPzJzU5OHJEaGknbwZA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 4:54 AM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
> ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 8:06:07 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? INADA Naoki ??????:
>> Read my mail again.
>>
>> > This error came from MySQL.  If there are no logs in error_log, it's
>> > your configuration issue.
>>
>> > See https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.7/en/update.html for Update
>> > statement syntax.
>
> I cannot understand where the error is.
> Could you how it to me please?

Are people paying you to run their servers, and you're not even
prepared to spend a few minutes reading the documentation before
firing another post to a newsgroup/mailing list with thousands of
participants? (Actually, I have no idea how many people read
python-list/clp - 10K? 100K? 1M?)

ChrisA


From eryksun at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 14:37:11 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 18:37:11 +0000
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmp+vZbeHq77fBANj7c=NEJE83D_APeQr9VxmLN0zmNj=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1at2OB6r08Mi4aq6yyg0Ps7DwS2YMxvdDR33teJDTZRpOw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmp+vZbeHq77fBANj7c=NEJE83D_APeQr9VxmLN0zmNj=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1avEAfWyRrLgTQvZGotK=ocqoQ=A7D-mrybrKE8z36VApQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 5:58 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The Windows console can render any character in the BMP, but it
>> requires configuring font linking for fallback fonts. It's Windows, so
>> of course the supported UTF format is UTF-16. The console's UTF-8
>> support (codepage 65001) is too buggy to even consider using it.
>
> Is it actually UTF-16, or is it UCS-2?

Pedantically speaking it's UCS-2. Console buffers aren't necessarily
valid UTF-16, i.e. they can have lone surrogate codes or invalid
surrogate pairs. The way a surrogate code gets rendered depends on the
font. It could be an empty box, a box containing a question mark, or
simply empty space. That applies even if it's a valid UTF-16 surrogate
pair, so the console can't display non-BMP characters such as emojis.
They can be copied to the clipboard and displayed in another program.

Windows file systems are also UCS-2. For the most part it's not an
issue since the source of text and filenames will be valid UTF-16.


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 14:52:32 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 11:52:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.51.1490553124.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <d476675c-f89a-4dcf-bff4-725dbdf43564@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+Tzh2sDsC_=nC7UgLMJVX=Zvwpa6OiUxy=MDubJuGVsgKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.39.1490547950.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <61d98fda-e43d-4cdc-addd-86b7aadbbc6c@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmoJxifj2JC4Dnr=2UiCP2rGgLNsPzJzU5OHJEaGknbwZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.51.1490553124.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8ebad92f-e0e4-4652-aa49-4d26c4096440@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 9:32:13 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Chris Angelico ??????:
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 4:54 AM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 8:06:07 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? INADA Naoki ??????:
> >> Read my mail again.
> >>
> >> > This error came from MySQL.  If there are no logs in error_log, it's
> >> > your configuration issue.
> >>
> >> > See https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.7/en/update.html for Update
> >> > statement syntax.
> >
> > I cannot understand where the error is.
> > Could you how it to me please?
> 
> Are people paying you to run their servers, and you're not even
> prepared to spend a few minutes reading the documentation before
> firing another post to a newsgroup/mailing list with thousands of
> participants? (Actually, I have no idea how many people read
> python-list/clp - 10K? 100K? 1M?)
> 
> ChrisA

So the answer is within that url link and i cannot see it?!

Give me a hint!


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 14:54:38 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 11:54:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <pjTBA.583406$w46.469@fx39.am4>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <XnQBA.582751$w46.272327@fx39.am4>
 <46060114-0322-4347-8b46-121d7c9605c9@googlegroups.com>
 <pjTBA.583406$w46.469@fx39.am4>
Message-ID: <1675223c-1239-4713-81cd-417331bb33b7@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 8:58:55 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? alister ??????:
> On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 07:43:51 -0700, ????? ?????? wrote:
> 
> > ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 5:38:57 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? alister
> > ??????:
> >> On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 07:24:49 -0700, ????? ?????? wrote:
> >> 
> >> > ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 5:19:27 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Ian
> >> > ??????:
> >> > 
> >> >> You need to change the placeholders back. The poster who told you to
> >> >> replace them was misinformed.
> >> > 
> >> > okey altered them back to
> >> > 
> >> > cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location,
> >> > useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE
> >> > host LIKE "%%s%" ''',
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> (pID, domain, ref, location, useros,
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> browser, lastvisit, domain) )
> >> > 
> >> > but now the problem is how to exact;y type the Where HOST like "%%%"
> >> > 
> >> > I MEAN HOW TO DIFFERENTIATE '%S' FROM LITERAL '%' character.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> as a quick thought (untested) it is probably best to have %s as your
> >> parameter for the Like clause & ad the sql wild-cards (% symbols) to
> >> the data you pass in as I think the expansion of %s adds quote marks
> >> which will certainly cause the sql parser issues.
> > 
> > How do you propose writing that cur.execute statement Alister?
> 
> 
> cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location,
> >> > useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE
> >> > host LIKE %s '''
> 
> but you will need to amend the data  you pass so that the last element 
> has the surrounding % characters .
> 
> 
> -- 
> T-1's congested due to porn traffic to the news server.

i have done so ith 3 different ways to prepare the string before sending it as an argument to update query as i mentioned in a previous post.

Unfortunately all 3 ways weren't able to make the query work.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 14:57:31 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 05:57:31 +1100
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <CACL+1avEAfWyRrLgTQvZGotK=ocqoQ=A7D-mrybrKE8z36VApQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1at2OB6r08Mi4aq6yyg0Ps7DwS2YMxvdDR33teJDTZRpOw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmp+vZbeHq77fBANj7c=NEJE83D_APeQr9VxmLN0zmNj=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1avEAfWyRrLgTQvZGotK=ocqoQ=A7D-mrybrKE8z36VApQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpKQ67KP19NKqBa2CAi9Zbynr74NHo+GTxqrJVDUA+E5w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:37 AM, eryk sun <eryksun at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 5:58 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The Windows console can render any character in the BMP, but it
>>> requires configuring font linking for fallback fonts. It's Windows, so
>>> of course the supported UTF format is UTF-16. The console's UTF-8
>>> support (codepage 65001) is too buggy to even consider using it.
>>
>> Is it actually UTF-16, or is it UCS-2?
>
> Pedantically speaking it's UCS-2. Console buffers aren't necessarily
> valid UTF-16, i.e. they can have lone surrogate codes or invalid
> surrogate pairs. The way a surrogate code gets rendered depends on the
> font. It could be an empty box, a box containing a question mark, or
> simply empty space. That applies even if it's a valid UTF-16 surrogate
> pair, so the console can't display non-BMP characters such as emojis.
> They can be copied to the clipboard and displayed in another program.

Exactly. So it's not supporting the entire Unicode range, but only the
BMP. That restricts its usability for anything other than simple text.

> Windows file systems are also UCS-2. For the most part it's not an
> issue since the source of text and filenames will be valid UTF-16.

I'm actually not sure on that one. Poking around on both Stack
Overflow and MSDN suggests that NTFS does actually use UTF-16, which
implies that lone surrogates should be errors, but I haven't proven
this. In any case, file system encoding is relatively immaterial; it's
file system *API* encoding that matters, and that means the
CreateFileW function and its friends:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa363858(v=vs.85).aspx
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa365247(v=vs.85).aspx
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/gg269344(v=exchg.10).aspx

My reading of this is that:

a) The API is defined in terms of the WCHAR type, a 16-bit code unit.
b) Limits are described in terms of "characters" (eg a max of 32767
for a path that starts "\\?\")
c) ???
d) Profit??

I *think* it's the naive (and very common) hybrid of UCS-2 and UTF-16
that says "surrogates are allowed anywhere, and you're allowed to
interpret pairs of them as UTF-16". But that's not a standard
encoding. In actual UCS-2, surrogates are entirely disallowed; in
UTF-16, they *must* be correctly paired.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 15:04:11 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 06:04:11 +1100
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <8ebad92f-e0e4-4652-aa49-4d26c4096440@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <d476675c-f89a-4dcf-bff4-725dbdf43564@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+Tzh2sDsC_=nC7UgLMJVX=Zvwpa6OiUxy=MDubJuGVsgKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.39.1490547950.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <61d98fda-e43d-4cdc-addd-86b7aadbbc6c@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmoJxifj2JC4Dnr=2UiCP2rGgLNsPzJzU5OHJEaGknbwZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.51.1490553124.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <8ebad92f-e0e4-4652-aa49-4d26c4096440@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqYqmjPtQjEuTK_Y5XiH89o0SmUWELoBrZmkpiTCH78wg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:52 AM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
> ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 9:32:13 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Chris Angelico ??????:
>> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 4:54 AM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 8:06:07 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? INADA Naoki ??????:
>> >> Read my mail again.
>> >>
>> >> > This error came from MySQL.  If there are no logs in error_log, it's
>> >> > your configuration issue.
>> >>
>> >> > See https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.7/en/update.html for Update
>> >> > statement syntax.
>> >
>> > I cannot understand where the error is.
>> > Could you how it to me please?
>>
>> Are people paying you to run their servers, and you're not even
>> prepared to spend a few minutes reading the documentation before
>> firing another post to a newsgroup/mailing list with thousands of
>> participants? (Actually, I have no idea how many people read
>> python-list/clp - 10K? 100K? 1M?)
>>
>> ChrisA
>
> So the answer is within that url link and i cannot see it?!
>
> Give me a hint!

You cannot see it? Why not - are you unable to access the web? Then
track down the equivalent local documentation. I don't have MySQL or
MariaDB installed here, but with PostgreSQL, I can fire up the CLI and
get documentation on SQL commands.

So no, I won't give you a hint until you get a clue.

ChrisA


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 15:11:13 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 12:11:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.55.1490555060.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <d476675c-f89a-4dcf-bff4-725dbdf43564@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+Tzh2sDsC_=nC7UgLMJVX=Zvwpa6OiUxy=MDubJuGVsgKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.39.1490547950.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <61d98fda-e43d-4cdc-addd-86b7aadbbc6c@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmoJxifj2JC4Dnr=2UiCP2rGgLNsPzJzU5OHJEaGknbwZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.51.1490553124.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <8ebad92f-e0e4-4652-aa49-4d26c4096440@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmqYqmjPtQjEuTK_Y5XiH89o0SmUWELoBrZmkpiTCH78wg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.55.1490555060.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3e0d841c-1333-4fcb-87ee-92b7a0ea2353@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 10:04:31 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Chris Angelico ??????:
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:52 AM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 9:32:13 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Chris Angelico ??????:
> >> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 4:54 AM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 8:06:07 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? INADA Naoki ??????:
> >> >> Read my mail again.
> >> >>
> >> >> > This error came from MySQL.  If there are no logs in error_log, it's
> >> >> > your configuration issue.
> >> >>
> >> >> > See https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.7/en/update.html for Update
> >> >> > statement syntax.
> >> >
> >> > I cannot understand where the error is.
> >> > Could you how it to me please?
> >>
> >> Are people paying you to run their servers, and you're not even
> >> prepared to spend a few minutes reading the documentation before
> >> firing another post to a newsgroup/mailing list with thousands of
> >> participants? (Actually, I have no idea how many people read
> >> python-list/clp - 10K? 100K? 1M?)
> >>
> >> ChrisA
> >
> > So the answer is within that url link and i cannot see it?!
> >
> > Give me a hint!
> 
> You cannot see it? Why not - are you unable to access the web? Then
> track down the equivalent local documentation. I don't have MySQL or
> MariaDB installed here, but with PostgreSQL, I can fire up the CLI and
> get documentation on SQL commands.
> 
> So no, I won't give you a hint until you get a clue.
> 
> ChrisA

I can see it Chris, but i just cannot "see" it.

If i remove the WHERE LIKE clause statement executes properly.

Its when adding the clause that does not interpolated correctly.


From breamoreboy at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 15:23:18 2017
From: breamoreboy at gmail.com (breamoreboy at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 12:23:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <da1116ce-84a4-4a9f-b643-269fdd86aa23@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 4:11:54 PM UTC+1, ????? ?????? wrote:
> ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 5:49:00 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Ian ??????:
> 
> > The database wrapper won't do substitution into the middle of a string
> > like that. Either concatenate the literal %'s on in the SQL statement
> > or add them to the string before you pass it in, i.e. '%' + domain +
> > '%' or '%%%s%%' % domain or '%{}%'.format(domain).
> 
> I just tried:
> 
> domain = '.'.join( host.split('.')[-2:] )
> domain = '%' + domain + '%'
> 
> cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%s" ''', 
> 																																			(pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
> 
> 
> and i received no error in the error_log but
> ProgrammingError(1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (1, '%cyta.gr%', ' at line 1")
> 
> which you can see at http://superhost.gr
> 
> You said somethign about concatenating the literal % in the SQL to which i didnt actually i understand how to implement.

I knew that I had a sense of deja vu about this https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-June/649809.html

Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence


From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 15:25:16 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 21:25:16 +0200
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <58d80413$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.38.1490547441.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58d80413$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRDpdadqORG1w0529bvvw_Gkoau8xTga3LYS=LfGCmXuqg@mail.gmail.com>

On 26 March 2017 at 20:10, Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 03:57 am, Mikhail V wrote:
>
> [...]
>>>> And more important: can one use binary (bitmap) fonts in default modern
>>>> linux console? If yes, can one patch them with custom tiles at
>>>> the application start?
>>>
>>> If you really need something completely custom, it's not text any
>>> more.
>>
>> Obvious fact, but if I need e.g. rounded corners in table drawing
>> characters? Or I just want to fix some characters which look especially
>> ugly? Create a new TTF? No, thanks, this would be worst nightmare to
>> do without a special tool (which have prices with several zeros, otherwise
>> just don't work and can even break things system-wide)
>
> Don't be silly. It took me ten seconds on Google to find this:
>
> https://birdfont.org/
>

It takes you ten seconds to Google, and what if I ask you
to take, say Courier New font TTF file (which includes not only
vector information but all that is responsible for bitmap
rendering, subpixeling, etc), then edit one character (and
all corresponding information for subpixeling),
then compile it as a new font, then install it on Win,
without that making any conflicts, and without _any_
further glitches or changes in other characters, and no such
things across all applications.
If you'd try that, and you will succeed, _then_ I will publicly admit
that I was silly.

And paying even 50$ for correcting one glyph... well
probably I'll do it if one gives guarantee that all above
will work.

>
>>> More likely, you don't truly need something custom - what you need is
>>> a different subset of characters (maybe you need to mix Latin, Greek,
>>> and Hebrew letters, in order to show interlinear translation of the
>>> Bible). Instead of messing around with character sets, you can just
>>> use Unicode and have all of them available.
>>
>> If I was to deal with multiple language charsets in _my own_ rendering
>> app, I would still use discrete encoding for inner algorithms.
>> i.e. I would place separate charsets on separate code ranges.
>
> Why? Because you think you know better than the thousands of professionals
> who have worked with text formats for decades?

Sounds provocative, but yes, in some cases I know what I am
doing ;-).
But that is not because professionals does not know,
there are many other aspects which come in play here.
It depends on the use case, Unicode solves only some
problems.
I was talking only about _my own_ usage, it
will be obviously incompatible e.g. for copy-pasting
between othr apps.
There are benefits to store language-specific values (+ their glyphs)
in separate stacks.
Anyway this discussion will require concrete
examples and much deeper investigation.

>
>> And for own standalone app, I would not use any TTF or
>> anything vector-based font, since why?
>
> Right, because your users will *love* to see their native language displayed
> in a crappy bitmapped font with jagged or blurry edges.
>

I am working on text rendering algorithms an have prototyped
several bitmap-based text rendering algorithms,
both managed and prerendered approaches, and there
is _nothing_ jagged or [incorrectly] blurred there, when
one knows what he's doing of course.
So it would be _very_ hard to catch me on incompetence
here, but you can try, and feel free to do it :))))

FYI vector-based fonts were mainly motivated by print design.
Modern GPUs have capabilities for fast vector
glyph rendering, but it is not needed for screen rendering,
much less when higher DPI displays will prevale.

Mikhail


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 15:33:27 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 12:33:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <da1116ce-84a4-4a9f-b643-269fdd86aa23@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <da1116ce-84a4-4a9f-b643-269fdd86aa23@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b75229f1-64fa-4336-a886-086a82c2be80@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 10:23:27 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? bream... at gmail.com ??????:
> On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 4:11:54 PM UTC+1, ????? ?????? wrote:
> > ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 5:49:00 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Ian ??????:
> > 
> > > The database wrapper won't do substitution into the middle of a string
> > > like that. Either concatenate the literal %'s on in the SQL statement
> > > or add them to the string before you pass it in, i.e. '%' + domain +
> > > '%' or '%%%s%%' % domain or '%{}%'.format(domain).
> > 
> > I just tried:
> > 
> > domain = '.'.join( host.split('.')[-2:] )
> > domain = '%' + domain + '%'
> > 
> > cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%s" ''', 
> > 																																			(pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
> > 
> > 
> > and i received no error in the error_log but
> > ProgrammingError(1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (1, '%cyta.gr%', ' at line 1")
> > 
> > which you can see at http://superhost.gr
> > 
> > You said somethign about concatenating the literal % in the SQL to which i didnt actually i understand how to implement.
> 
> I knew that I had a sense of deja vu about this https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-June/649809.html
> 
> Kindest regards.
> 
> Mark Lawrence

Since i'm incopetent as you suggest i'am show us your level of skills and expertise and provide a solution, otherwise you are also what you claim of me.


From breamoreboy at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 15:50:37 2017
From: breamoreboy at gmail.com (breamoreboy at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 12:50:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <b75229f1-64fa-4336-a886-086a82c2be80@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <da1116ce-84a4-4a9f-b643-269fdd86aa23@googlegroups.com>
 <b75229f1-64fa-4336-a886-086a82c2be80@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <576ffeee-0caf-4e79-9a8e-a2b361a169d3@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 8:33:49 PM UTC+1, ????? ?????? wrote:
> ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 10:23:27 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? bream... at gmail.com ??????:
> > On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 4:11:54 PM UTC+1, ????? ?????? wrote:
> > > ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 5:49:00 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Ian ??????:
> > > 
> > > > The database wrapper won't do substitution into the middle of a string
> > > > like that. Either concatenate the literal %'s on in the SQL statement
> > > > or add them to the string before you pass it in, i.e. '%' + domain +
> > > > '%' or '%%%s%%' % domain or '%{}%'.format(domain).
> > > 
> > > I just tried:
> > > 
> > > domain = '.'.join( host.split('.')[-2:] )
> > > domain = '%' + domain + '%'
> > > 
> > > cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%s" ''', 
> > > 																																			(pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
> > > 
> > > 
> > > and i received no error in the error_log but
> > > ProgrammingError(1064, "You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (1, '%cyta.gr%', ' at line 1")
> > > 
> > > which you can see at http://superhost.gr
> > > 
> > > You said somethign about concatenating the literal % in the SQL to which i didnt actually i understand how to implement.
> > 
> > I knew that I had a sense of deja vu about this https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-June/649809.html
> > 
> > Kindest regards.
> > 
> > Mark Lawrence
> 
> Since i'm incopetent as you suggest i'am show us your level of skills and expertise and provide a solution, otherwise you are also what you claim of me.

*plonk*


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 15:53:12 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 06:53:12 +1100
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <CAE6NSRDpdadqORG1w0529bvvw_Gkoau8xTga3LYS=LfGCmXuqg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.38.1490547441.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58d80413$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAE6NSRDpdadqORG1w0529bvvw_Gkoau8xTga3LYS=LfGCmXuqg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmojKPE3d4y5YEJJuGer174Yv0ZcobJGOp8rmYgYYYefbg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 6:25 AM, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 26 March 2017 at 20:10, Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 03:57 am, Mikhail V wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>>>> And more important: can one use binary (bitmap) fonts in default modern
>>>>> linux console? If yes, can one patch them with custom tiles at
>>>>> the application start?
>>>>
>>>> If you really need something completely custom, it's not text any
>>>> more.
>>>
>>> Obvious fact, but if I need e.g. rounded corners in table drawing
>>> characters? Or I just want to fix some characters which look especially
>>> ugly? Create a new TTF? No, thanks, this would be worst nightmare to
>>> do without a special tool (which have prices with several zeros, otherwise
>>> just don't work and can even break things system-wide)
>>
>> Don't be silly. It took me ten seconds on Google to find this:
>>
>> https://birdfont.org/
>>
>
> It takes you ten seconds to Google, and what if I ask you
> to take, say Courier New font TTF file (which includes not only
> vector information but all that is responsible for bitmap
> rendering, subpixeling, etc), then edit one character (and
> all corresponding information for subpixeling),
> then compile it as a new font, then install it on Win,
> without that making any conflicts, and without _any_
> further glitches or changes in other characters, and no such
> things across all applications.
> If you'd try that, and you will succeed, _then_ I will publicly admit
> that I was silly.
>
> And paying even 50$ for correcting one glyph... well
> probably I'll do it if one gives guarantee that all above
> will work.

See previous comments about font substitution. Create a font with just
one character in it. Use that font in your application. Voila! No
changes to any other applications (because they'll still be using the
original font), and no changes to any other characters.

However, I'm impressed that you found a bug in a well-used font.

http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#idm46227256017920

Is it that decades of typographical research is incorrect, or that the
designers of this font just sucked? You're pretty unambiguous in your
description that you are "correcting" a glyph. Not adapting it to your
own purposes - you're correcting something that's fundamentally wrong
in someone else's font. Impressive.

>> Why? Because you think you know better than the thousands of professionals
>> who have worked with text formats for decades?
>
> Sounds provocative, but yes, in some cases I know what I am
> doing ;-).
> But that is not because professionals does not know,
> there are many other aspects which come in play here.
> It depends on the use case, Unicode solves only some
> problems.
> I was talking only about _my own_ usage, it
> will be obviously incompatible e.g. for copy-pasting
> between othr apps.
> There are benefits to store language-specific values (+ their glyphs)
> in separate stacks.
> Anyway this discussion will require concrete
> examples and much deeper investigation.

I generally find that when people say that Unicode doesn't solve their
problems and they need to roll their own, it's usually one of two
possibilities:

1) "Their problems" are all about simplicity. They don't want to have
to deal with all the complexities of real-world text, so they
arbitrarily restrict things.
2) Unicode _would_ solve their problems, they just don't realize it.

So if you're rolling your own text display system, you should start by
making a signed declaration:

"""
I, the undersigned, acknowledge that my program is intentionally
excluding everyone who does not fit the following requirements:
[choose all applicable]

[ ] Speaks English exclusively
[ ] Uses no diacritical marks
[ ] Writes all text top-to-bottom, left-to-right
[ ] Uses only characters from the Basic Multilingual Plane
[ ] Uses only characters from this codepage: ____
[ ] Uses a monospaced font
[ ] Uses a proportionally-spaced font
[ ] Uses this font: _____________
[ ] Uses a mouse
[ ] Uses a keyboard
[ ] Other: ___________________
(use additional pages if required)

Signed: _______________
"""

Sure, there are good reasons to place restrictions on people's text.
But those restrictions are part of your public API and UI. Acknowledge
them. Own them. And justify them.

>>> And for own standalone app, I would not use any TTF or
>>> anything vector-based font, since why?
>>
>> Right, because your users will *love* to see their native language displayed
>> in a crappy bitmapped font with jagged or blurry edges.
>>
>
> I am working on text rendering algorithms an have prototyped
> several bitmap-based text rendering algorithms,
> both managed and prerendered approaches, and there
> is _nothing_ jagged or [incorrectly] blurred there, when
> one knows what he's doing of course.
> So it would be _very_ hard to catch me on incompetence
> here, but you can try, and feel free to do it :))))

Sure. Render me two characters on a half-meter-wide 1920x1080 screen.
I'll choose the exact size dynamically, at run-time, in response to
the amount of chrome I have on the window. Make sure the two
characters look perfect whether I make this a tiny marker on the
screen, or make it completely fill the entire monitor.

> FYI vector-based fonts were mainly motivated by print design.
> Modern GPUs have capabilities for fast vector
> glyph rendering, but it is not needed for screen rendering,
> much less when higher DPI displays will prevale.

Even if high-DPI displays *do* prevail, you still have to render text
at a wide variety of pixel sizes. One character might have a box 10x19
pixels (that's what my MUD client is saying; the height of 19px is
what it's using from line to line, and the estimated 10px width is
based on the letter "n", and is used to convert from server-side
character widths to actual measured widths), or it might be stretched
to 568x1080 to fill the entire height of my screen. That letter might
get rotated by 7.3 degrees counter-clockwise in order to place it
tastefully into a logo. It could even be picked up and turned into a
three-mile-high 3D object in a fully-rendered world, helping to spell
out "SHARE AND ENJOY". Can your bitmapped font renderer handle all of
that?

ChrisA
(If it can't, maybe it should go stick its head in a pig?)


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 15:55:47 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 06:55:47 +1100
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <b75229f1-64fa-4336-a886-086a82c2be80@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <da1116ce-84a4-4a9f-b643-269fdd86aa23@googlegroups.com>
 <b75229f1-64fa-4336-a886-086a82c2be80@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqKkr2T5T4grv_Rh0pOKjSkGFdxxS9LAx1hdhnaFvvW8w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 6:33 AM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
> Since i'm incopetent as you suggest i'am show us your level of skills and expertise and provide a solution, otherwise you are also what you claim of me.

It's not his problem. An expert does not have to provide solutions to
prove his expertise, unless s/he is suffering from severe self-image
problems. Someone who's getting paid to host other people's web sites,
on the other hand, needs to solve the problems that come up.

ChrisA


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 16:05:13 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 13:05:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.58.1490558156.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <da1116ce-84a4-4a9f-b643-269fdd86aa23@googlegroups.com>
 <b75229f1-64fa-4336-a886-086a82c2be80@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmqKkr2T5T4grv_Rh0pOKjSkGFdxxS9LAx1hdhnaFvvW8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.58.1490558156.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2a3dc802-06fa-4970-896a-9ec484e225d5@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 10:56:07 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Chris Angelico ??????:
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 6:33 AM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Since i'm incopetent as you suggest i'am show us your level of skills and expertise and provide a solution, otherwise you are also what you claim of me.
> 
> It's not his problem. An expert does not have to provide solutions to
> prove his expertise, unless s/he is suffering from severe self-image
> problems. Someone who's getting paid to host other people's web sites,
> on the other hand, needs to solve the problems that come up.
> 
> ChrisA

Okey although i beleive my UPDATE query to be correct i'll now try this:

cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET pagesID=%s, host=%s, ref=%s, location=%s, useros=%s, browser=%s, visits=%s WHERE host LIKE %s''', (pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain_query) )


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 16:13:13 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 13:13:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <2a3dc802-06fa-4970-896a-9ec484e225d5@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <da1116ce-84a4-4a9f-b643-269fdd86aa23@googlegroups.com>
 <b75229f1-64fa-4336-a886-086a82c2be80@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmqKkr2T5T4grv_Rh0pOKjSkGFdxxS9LAx1hdhnaFvvW8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.58.1490558156.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2a3dc802-06fa-4970-896a-9ec484e225d5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7ed4ae91-7547-4f1c-a80c-d3fc78b23bf0@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 11:05:34 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? ????? ?????? ??????:
> ?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 10:56:07 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Chris Angelico ??????:
> > On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 6:33 AM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Since i'm incopetent as you suggest i'am show us your level of skills and expertise and provide a solution, otherwise you are also what you claim of me.
> > 
> > It's not his problem. An expert does not have to provide solutions to
> > prove his expertise, unless s/he is suffering from severe self-image
> > problems. Someone who's getting paid to host other people's web sites,
> > on the other hand, needs to solve the problems that come up.
> > 
> > ChrisA
> 
> Okey although i beleive my UPDATE query to be correct i'll now try this:
> 
> cur.execute('''UPDATE visitors SET pagesID=%s, host=%s, ref=%s, location=%s, useros=%s, browser=%s, visits=%s WHERE host LIKE %s''', (pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain_query) )

OMG!!! It actually worked!

Can't believe that 3 days in a row i have tried everything concerning string manipulation and mysql escaping nd the error was the UPDATE itself....

OMG!!!


From orgnut at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 26 16:59:05 2017
From: orgnut at yahoo.com (Larry Hudson)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 13:59:05 -0700
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <NbednRG4JpsHtkXFnZ2dnUU7-YXNnZ2d@giganews.com>

On 03/26/2017 01:21 AM, ????? ?????? wrote:
> print('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%s"''', (pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
>
> prints out:
>
> UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%s" (1, 'cyta.gr', '????? ????????', 'Greece', 'Windows', 'Chrome', '17-03-24 22:04:24', 'cyta.gr')
>
> How should i write the cursor.execute in order to be parsed properly?
> As i have it now %s does not get substituted.

You don't get the substitution because you're missing a %.

Change:
     ... LIKE "%s"''', (pID, ...
To:
     ... LIKE "%s"''' % (pID, ...

-- 
      -=- Larry -=-


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 17:23:46 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 14:23:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <NbednRG4JpsHtkXFnZ2dnUU7-YXNnZ2d@giganews.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <NbednRG4JpsHtkXFnZ2dnUU7-YXNnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <27e5d492-a70d-4ede-b94a-a70b269526e6@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 26 ??????? 2017 - 11:59:21 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Larry Hudson ??????:
> On 03/26/2017 01:21 AM, ????? ?????? wrote:
> > print('''UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%s"''', (pID, domain, ref, location, useros, browser, lastvisit, domain) )
> >
> > prints out:
> >
> > UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%s" (1, 'cyta.gr', '????? ????????', 'Greece', 'Windows', 'Chrome', '17-03-24 22:04:24', 'cyta.gr')
> >
> > How should i write the cursor.execute in order to be parsed properly?
> > As i have it now %s does not get substituted.
> 
> You don't get the substitution because you're missing a %.
> 
> Change:
>      ... LIKE "%s"''', (pID, ...
> To:
>      ... LIKE "%s"''' % (pID, ...
> 
> -- 
>       -=- Larry -=-

No, i have tried it many times. 
It fails and is prone to sql injection within a cursor execute.

As i understood i can have UPDATE syntax be as similar to INSERT like

(pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s)

each column needs to be set respectively as column1 = value1, column2 = value 2 and so on.


From eryksun at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 18:09:43 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 22:09:43 +0000
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpKQ67KP19NKqBa2CAi9Zbynr74NHo+GTxqrJVDUA+E5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1at2OB6r08Mi4aq6yyg0Ps7DwS2YMxvdDR33teJDTZRpOw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmp+vZbeHq77fBANj7c=NEJE83D_APeQr9VxmLN0zmNj=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1avEAfWyRrLgTQvZGotK=ocqoQ=A7D-mrybrKE8z36VApQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpKQ67KP19NKqBa2CAi9Zbynr74NHo+GTxqrJVDUA+E5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1atJ=4k6FWEo56F9zmimDBfXoiYyqaeptXN9E31n6m2XAg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 6:57 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> In actual UCS-2, surrogates are entirely disallowed; in UTF-16, they *must* be
> correctly paired.

Strictly-speaking UCS-2 disallows codes that aren't defined by the
standard, but the kernel couldn't be that restrictive. Unicode was a
moving target in the period that NT was developed (1988-93). The
object manager simply allows any 16-bit code in object names, except
its path separator, backslash. Since a UNICODE_STRING is counted, even
NUL is allowed in object names. But that's uncommon and should be
avoided since the user-mode API uses null-terminated strings.

The file-system runtime library further restricts this by reserving
NUL, ASCII control codes, forward slash, pipe, and the wildcard
characters asterisk, question mark, double quote, less than, and
greater than. The rules are loosened for NTFS named streams, which
only reserve NUL, forward slash, and backslash.

>> Windows file systems are also UCS-2. For the most part it's not an
>> issue since the source of text and filenames will be valid UTF-16.
>
> I'm actually not sure on that one. Poking around on both Stack
> Overflow and MSDN suggests that NTFS does actually use UTF-16, which
> implies that lone surrogates should be errors, but I haven't proven
> this. In any case, file system encoding is relatively immaterial; it's
> file system *API* encoding that matters, and that means the
> CreateFileW function and its friends:

Sure, the file system itself can use any encoding, but Microsoft use a
permissive UCS-2 in its file systems. The API uses 16-bit WCHARs, and
except for a relatively small set of codes (assuming it uses the
FsRtl), the system generally doesn't care about the values. Let's
review the major actors.

CreateFile uses the runtime library in ntdll.dll to fill in an
OBJECT_ATTRIBUTES [1] with a UNICODE_STRING [2]. This is where the
current-directory handle is set as the attributes RootDirectory handle
for relative paths; where slash is replaced with backslash; and where
weird MS-DOS rules are applied, such as DOS device names and trimming
trailing spaces. Once it has a native object attributes record, it
calls the real system call NtCreateFile [3]. In kernel mode this in
turn calls the I/O manager function IoCreateFile [4], which creates an
open packet and calls the object manger function ObOpenObjectByName.

Now it's time for path parsing. In the normal case the system
traverses several object directories and object symbolic links before
finally arriving at an I/O device (e.g. \??\C: => \Global??\C: =>
\Device\HarddiskVolume2). Parsing the rest of the path is in the hands
of the I/O manager via the Device object's ParseProcedure. The I/O
manager creates a File object and an I/O request packet (IRP) for the
major function IRP_MJ_CREATE [5] and calls the driver for the device
stack via IoCallDriver [6]. If the device is a volume that's managed
by a file-system driver (e.g. ntfs.sys), the file-system parses the
remaining path to open or create the directory/file/stream and
complete the IRP. The object manager creates a handle for the File
object in the handle table of the calling process, and this handle
value is finally passed back to the caller.

[1]: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff557749
[2]: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff564879
[3]: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff566424
[4]: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff548418
[5]: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff548630
[6]: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff548336

The object manager only cares about its path separator, backslash,
until it arrives at an object type that it doesn't manage, such as a
Device object. If a file system uses the FsRtl, then the remaining
path is subject to Windows file-system rules. It would be ill-advised
to diverge from these rules.

> I *think* it's the naive (and very common) hybrid of UCS-2 and UTF-16

It's just the way the system evolved over time. UTF-16 wasn't
standardized until 1996 circa NT 4.0. Windows started integrating it
around NT 5 (Windows 2000), primarily for the GUI controls in the
windowing system that directly affect text processing for most
applications. It was good enough to leave most of the lower layers of
the system passively naive when it comes to UTF-16.


From songofacandy at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 19:26:58 2017
From: songofacandy at gmail.com (INADA Naoki)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 08:26:58 +0900
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <CA+Vb2TEAWg_fbuqkypqapZ_7btRXoMs2O93FcsuuqwLz3DfSMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <d476675c-f89a-4dcf-bff4-725dbdf43564@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+Tzh2sDsC_=nC7UgLMJVX=Zvwpa6OiUxy=MDubJuGVsgKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Vb2TEAWg_fbuqkypqapZ_7btRXoMs2O93FcsuuqwLz3DfSMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEfz+Tw_eA+b9vqGwSNG4p+dTe+BhH=PYN8_k3LsGevf7uo8mQ@mail.gmail.com>

> i dont have to update table set column1 = this value, column2=that value and
> so on

Why do you think so?  Did you really read the manual?

mysql> create table test_update (a int primary key, b int, c int);
Query OK, 0 rows affected (0.02 sec)

mysql> insert into test_update values (1, 2, 3);
Query OK, 1 row affected (0.00 sec)

mysql> update test_update set (b, c) values (4, 5) where a = 1;
ERROR 1064 (42000): You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the
manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right
syntax to use near '(b, c) values (4, 5) where a = 1' at line 1

mysql> update test_update set b=4, c=5 where a = 1;
Query OK, 1 row affected (0.01 sec)
Rows matched: 1  Changed: 1  Warnings: 0

>
> It's just when the LIKE clause jumps in that is causing all this trouble....

Your MariaDB said:

> check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ...

MariaDB / MySQL shows part of your SQL from where they failed to parse.
In your case, your MariaDB can't parse from '('
LIKE clause is not problem for this issue?


From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 19:42:21 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 01:42:21 +0200
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmojKPE3d4y5YEJJuGer174Yv0ZcobJGOp8rmYgYYYefbg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.38.1490547441.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58d80413$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAE6NSRDpdadqORG1w0529bvvw_Gkoau8xTga3LYS=LfGCmXuqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmojKPE3d4y5YEJJuGer174Yv0ZcobJGOp8rmYgYYYefbg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRBXrq+gkmt9ggZHAV8i7m93wJUXBRNUv9whzrc_==Tjvw@mail.gmail.com>

On 26 March 2017 at 21:53, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 6:25 AM, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 26 March 2017 at 20:10, Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 03:57 am, Mikhail V wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>>>> And more important: can one use binary (bitmap) fonts in default modern
>>>>>> linux console? If yes, can one patch them with custom tiles at
>>>>>> the application start?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you really need something completely custom, it's not text any
>>>>> more.
>>>>
>>>> Obvious fact, but if I need e.g. rounded corners in table drawing
>>>> characters? Or I just want to fix some characters which look especially
>>>> ugly? Create a new TTF? No, thanks, this would be worst nightmare to
>>>> do without a special tool (which have prices with several zeros, otherwise
>>>> just don't work and can even break things system-wide)
>>>
>>> Don't be silly. It took me ten seconds on Google to find this:
>>>
>>> https://birdfont.org/
>>>
>>
>> It takes you ten seconds to Google, and what if I ask you
>> to take, say Courier New font TTF file (which includes not only
>> vector information but all that is responsible for bitmap
>> rendering, subpixeling, etc), then edit one character (and
>> all corresponding information for subpixeling),
>> then compile it as a new font, then install it on Win,
>> without that making any conflicts, and without _any_
>> further glitches or changes in other characters, and no such
>> things across all applications.
>> If you'd try that, and you will succeed, _then_ I will publicly admit
>> that I was silly.
>>
>> And paying even 50$ for correcting one glyph... well
>> probably I'll do it if one gives guarantee that all above
>> will work.
>
> See previous comments about font substitution. Create a font with just
> one character in it. Use that font in your application. Voila! No
> changes to any other applications (because they'll still be using the
> original font), and no changes to any other characters.

Good tip, I'll try that. Though still one need an app, even
for one character, and it'll need fallback setup on each
computer I use.
Dont get it wrong, I don't say it is impossible. There are
guys that have figured out such things and I've read once
something about hacking bitmap and subpixeling
information directly in the font file, but I was not
stubborn enough to learn that.


> Is it that decades of typographical research is incorrect, or that the
> designers of this font just sucked? You're pretty unambiguous in your
> description that you are "correcting" a glyph. Not adapting it to your
> own purposes - you're correcting something that's fundamentally wrong
> in someone else's font. Impressive.

Call it "modify for own purpose" if it sounds better.
In Courier, the brackets are too small, tilde char is too
much like hyphen, some other minor things.
And Courier New bold is best readable (for me ;) font on Win
 so I don't want another font, which has better brackets,
but less readable. And as said, if possible I avoid
monospaced font where possible, so this means
that probably I'll need to modfy some other fonts too.


>>>> And for own standalone app, I would not use any TTF or
>>>> anything vector-based font, since why?
>>>
>>> Right, because your users will *love* to see their native language displayed
>>> in a crappy bitmapped font with jagged or blurry edges.
>>>
>>
>> I am working on text rendering algorithms an have prototyped
>> several bitmap-based text rendering algorithms,
>> both managed and prerendered approaches, and there
>> is _nothing_ jagged or [incorrectly] blurred there, when
>> one knows what he's doing of course.
>> So it would be _very_ hard to catch me on incompetence
>> here, but you can try, and feel free to do it :))))
>
> Sure. Render me two characters on a half-meter-wide 1920x1080 screen.
> I'll choose the exact size dynamically, at run-time, in response to
> the amount of chrome I have on the window. Make sure the two
> characters look perfect whether I make this a tiny marker on the
> screen, or make it completely fill the entire monitor.
> [...]
> Even if high-DPI displays *do* prevail, you still have to render
> text at a wide variety of pixel sizes.

Seems like you are jumping from one corner case to another.
In general, if you want huge letters or some design tasks
(e.g. huge letters for a print) you can use vector paths.
But remember that a photo or a bitmap texture will not
become new information if you convert each pixel to a vector square, or
circle.  It is only question of scalability.

Concentrate on these points:
- Restrict the case to display only
- Making one letter fill half of a monitor, or rotating it arbitrary,
has little to do with reading text on a monitor in real situation.
- Your understanding of "look perfect" and relation with
information cognition (e.g. a retro game upscaled with
integer scaler versus a remake of this game made completely
with higher resolution sprites - will you say
that the latter feels much better?)
- "Render text at a wide variety of pixel sizes": yes, one
can do this all only with bitmap information, if one uses
appropriate image sources and algorithms. This
gives perfect results. And there are few interesting
solutions for performance optimisations without
breaking the distance precision (e.g. currently
subpixeling on Windows is used, but there are other
good ways without subpixeling)

In real application, you can achieve this with real-time
vector rendering, but it will be simply not worth it, since
you will gain no improvement of reading experience.

So the possibility to render huge letters and then
inspecting the tangents of all curves with a looking
glass will not count as an argument by choice decision for
a reader software for example (for each given task, there is
concrete optimal solution)

And all text I currently read on my monitor are prerendered bitmaps,
refined manually for frequently used sizes, and that is how it
should be made. IOW there are much more important aspects
than the ability to scale a text line from 600 px to 601 px wide, if you
know what I mean.


Mikhail


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Mar 26 20:15:39 2017
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 19:15:39 -0500
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170326191539.02def931@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2017-03-27 02:37, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > In DOS, (I don't remember if in all versions or only some)
> > one could do all this and this opens very rich possibilities for
> > approximating of objects with tiles. The only limitations
> > that one uses 255 tiles, but even this enables to build
> > whole 'worlds' and state of the art apps. So I would call this
> > pseudographics and not few sticks and corner tiles
> > (which I cannot even define and upload easily).  
> 
> Yeah; if my memory serves me, this was an IBM BIOS feature, so all
> versions of DOS would be equally able to do it. But it's basically a
> form of tile graphics, not text. 

It was a function of the EGA/VGA card (maybe CGA? Though I think
that might have been limited to the upper 128 chars while the lower
128 were fixed), not the IBM BIOS.  But yes, there were font-editors
for the EGA/VGA fonts and, once set, they'd appear even in things
like WordPerfect, QuattroPro, Lotus, or Turbo Pascal.  All the rage
back in my 286-wolfenstein3d-playing-turbopascal-programming days. ;-)

-tkc




From steve+python at pearwood.info  Sun Mar 26 20:33:49 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 11:33:49 +1100
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <da1116ce-84a4-4a9f-b643-269fdd86aa23@googlegroups.com>
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 <CAPTjJmqKkr2T5T4grv_Rh0pOKjSkGFdxxS9LAx1hdhnaFvvW8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.58.1490558156.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2a3dc802-06fa-4970-896a-9ec484e225d5@googlegroups.com>
 <7ed4ae91-7547-4f1c-a80c-d3fc78b23bf0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <58d85df0$0$1622$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 07:13 am, ????? ?????? wrote:

> OMG!!! It actually worked!
> 
> Can't believe that 3 days in a row i have tried everything concerning
> string manipulation and mysql escaping nd the error was the UPDATE
> itself....

You tried everything except what we told you, over and over and over again:

READ THE MANUAL.

The error message told you it was a SQL syntax error, but no, you insisted
that you knew better, and refused to do what the error message said.

So you wasted three days due to your own stubbornness and laziness.

I have no sympathy for your self-inflicted problems.




-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 22:39:54 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 19:39:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.60.1490570841.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
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 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
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 <CA+Vb2TEAWg_fbuqkypqapZ_7btRXoMs2O93FcsuuqwLz3DfSMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+Tw_eA+b9vqGwSNG4p+dTe+BhH=PYN8_k3LsGevf7uo8mQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.60.1490570841.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5b045f7e-1c63-45ad-ad5e-5385f33e06e1@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 27 ??????? 2017 - 2:27:31 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? INADA Naoki ??????:
> > i dont have to update table set column1 = this value, column2=that value and
> > so on
> 
> Why do you think so?  Did you really read the manual?
> 
> mysql> create table test_update (a int primary key, b int, c int);
> Query OK, 0 rows affected (0.02 sec)
> 
> mysql> insert into test_update values (1, 2, 3);
> Query OK, 1 row affected (0.00 sec)
> 
> mysql> update test_update set (b, c) values (4, 5) where a = 1;
> ERROR 1064 (42000): You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the
> manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right
> syntax to use near '(b, c) values (4, 5) where a = 1' at line 1
> 
> mysql> update test_update set b=4, c=5 where a = 1;
> Query OK, 1 row affected (0.01 sec)
> Rows matched: 1  Changed: 1  Warnings: 0
> 
> >
> > It's just when the LIKE clause jumps in that is causing all this trouble....
> 
> Your MariaDB said:
> 
> > check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near '(pagesID, host, ...
> 
> MariaDB / MySQL shows part of your SQL from where they failed to parse.
> In your case, your MariaDB can't parse from '('
> LIKE clause is not problem for this issue?

Yes indeed it is.
I was just so sure that UPDATE was working like INSERT and i was persistent that the WHERE LIKE clause was cauing this.

I'am still surprised that:
> mysql> update test_update set (b, c) values (4, 5) where a = 1;

is failign to parse. It just seems so undoubtly straightforward and correct syntactically.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 22:42:46 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 13:42:46 +1100
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <5b045f7e-1c63-45ad-ad5e-5385f33e06e1@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <d476675c-f89a-4dcf-bff4-725dbdf43564@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+Tzh2sDsC_=nC7UgLMJVX=Zvwpa6OiUxy=MDubJuGVsgKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Vb2TEAWg_fbuqkypqapZ_7btRXoMs2O93FcsuuqwLz3DfSMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+Tw_eA+b9vqGwSNG4p+dTe+BhH=PYN8_k3LsGevf7uo8mQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.60.1490570841.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <5b045f7e-1c63-45ad-ad5e-5385f33e06e1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpMbKh2Chb+t9LLnbsEc_G6=L6yKvAE3SYMFVcU98bCTg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 1:39 PM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
>> MariaDB / MySQL shows part of your SQL from where they failed to parse.
>> In your case, your MariaDB can't parse from '('
>> LIKE clause is not problem for this issue?
>
> Yes indeed it is.
> I was just so sure that UPDATE was working like INSERT and i was persistent that the WHERE LIKE clause was cauing this.
>
> I'am still surprised that:
>> mysql> update test_update set (b, c) values (4, 5) where a = 1;
>
> is failign to parse. It just seems so undoubtly straightforward and correct syntactically.

So when people told you to read the docs, what did you do, exactly?

ChrisA


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 22:52:27 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 19:52:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.64.1490582570.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <d476675c-f89a-4dcf-bff4-725dbdf43564@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+Tzh2sDsC_=nC7UgLMJVX=Zvwpa6OiUxy=MDubJuGVsgKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Vb2TEAWg_fbuqkypqapZ_7btRXoMs2O93FcsuuqwLz3DfSMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+Tw_eA+b9vqGwSNG4p+dTe+BhH=PYN8_k3LsGevf7uo8mQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.60.1490570841.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <5b045f7e-1c63-45ad-ad5e-5385f33e06e1@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmpMbKh2Chb+t9LLnbsEc_G6=L6yKvAE3SYMFVcU98bCTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.64.1490582570.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <22b18365-ca0e-46b9-9e51-f68ae201b36e@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 27 ??????? 2017 - 5:43:01 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Chris Angelico ??????:
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 1:39 PM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> MariaDB / MySQL shows part of your SQL from where they failed to parse.
> >> In your case, your MariaDB can't parse from '('
> >> LIKE clause is not problem for this issue?
> >
> > Yes indeed it is.
> > I was just so sure that UPDATE was working like INSERT and i was persistent that the WHERE LIKE clause was cauing this.
> >
> > I'am still surprised that:
> >> mysql> update test_update set (b, c) values (4, 5) where a = 1;
> >
> > is failign to parse. It just seems so undoubtly straightforward and correct syntactically.
> 
> So when people told you to read the docs, what did you do, exactly?
> 
> ChrisA

Its NOT that i have not read it exactly, but for some strange reason i was under the belief that the way i had syntactically typed the UPDATE query was correctly and more consistent and similar to thr INSERT query and it was prefered to me over the other one.

UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%s"

Its still a mystery to em whay this fails syntactically when at the same time INSERT works like that.

We give each columnn a specific value i don't see why it must only be written as UPDATE visitors SET a=1, b=2, c=3 ... WHERE host LIKE %s.

i knew that would work, but the first way although proven syntactically wrong seems so right .....


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 23:00:20 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 14:00:20 +1100
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <22b18365-ca0e-46b9-9e51-f68ae201b36e@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <d476675c-f89a-4dcf-bff4-725dbdf43564@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+Tzh2sDsC_=nC7UgLMJVX=Zvwpa6OiUxy=MDubJuGVsgKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Vb2TEAWg_fbuqkypqapZ_7btRXoMs2O93FcsuuqwLz3DfSMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+Tw_eA+b9vqGwSNG4p+dTe+BhH=PYN8_k3LsGevf7uo8mQ@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoE1BgfhMDLKQA3-iLGo7x3HpmcrtkwRcioTM+OpnOOew@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 1:52 PM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
> Its NOT that i have not read it exactly, but for some strange reason i was under the belief that the way i had syntactically typed the UPDATE query was correctly and more consistent and similar to thr INSERT query and it was prefered to me over the other one.
>
> UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%s"
>
> Its still a mystery to em whay this fails syntactically when at the same time INSERT works like that.
>
> We give each columnn a specific value i don't see why it must only be written as UPDATE visitors SET a=1, b=2, c=3 ... WHERE host LIKE %s.
>
> i knew that would work, but the first way although proven syntactically wrong seems so right .....

It'd be even more logical to write:

UPDATE visitors INCREMENT visits WHERE host CONTAINS %s;

I should just use that syntax, and if it doesn't work, I'm going to
post onto a mailing list until it magically starts working. It's NOT
that I haven't read the docs - I'm just going to wilfully ignore them.

Okay, I'm done now.

ChrisA


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 23:03:43 2017
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 23:03:43 -0400
Subject: [Python-ideas] Proposal: Query language extension to Python
 (PythonQL)
Message-ID: <CAPxRSnZmqKQ9OeFFrCt+AANSCrmBMjkNYtqQXEaeGQ1JREnSFw@mail.gmail.com>

(Forgot the subject)


> >* On 25 Mar 2017, at 15:51, Gerald Britton <gerald.britton at gmail.com <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas>> wrote:
> *> >* On 25 March 2017 at 11:24, Pavel Velikhov <pavel.velikhov at gmail.com <http://gmail.com> <http://gmail.com/ <http://gmail.com/>>> wrote:
> *>* > No, the current solution is temporary because we just don?t have the
> *>* > manpower to
> *>* > implement the full thing: a real system that will rewrite parts of PythonQL
> *>* > queries and
> *>* > ship them to underlying databases. We need a real query optimizer and smart
> *>* > wrappers
> *>* > for this purpose. But we?ll build one of these for demo purposes soon
> *>* > (either a Spark
> *>* > wrapper or a PostgreSQL wrapper).
> *>* One thought, if you're lacking in manpower now, then proposing
> *>* inclusion into core Python means that the core dev team will be taking
> *>* on an additional chunk of code that is already under-resourced. That
> *>* rings alarm bells for me - how would you imagine the work needed to
> *>* merge PythonQL into the core Python grammar would be resourced?
> *>* I should say that in practice, I think that the solution is relatively
> *>* niche, and overlaps quite significantly with existing Python features,
> *>* so I don't really see a compelling case for inclusion. The parallel
> *>* with C# and LINQ is interesting here - LINQ is a pretty cool
> *>* technology, but I don't see it in widespread use in general-purpose C#
> *>* projects (disclaimer: I don't get to see much C# code, so my
> *>* experience is limited).
> *> >* I see lots of C# code, but (thankfully) not so much LINQ to SQL.  Yes, it is a cool technology.  But I sometimes have a problem with the SQL it generates.  Since I'm also a SQL developer, I'm sensitive to how queries are constructed, for performance reasons, as well as how they look, for readability and aesthetic reasons.
> *> >* LINQ queries can generate poorly-performing SQL, since LINQ is a basically a translator, but not an AI.  As far as appearances go, LINQ queries can look pretty gnarly, especially if they include sub queries or a few joins.  That makes it hard for the SQL dev (me!) to read and understand if there are performance problems (which there often are, in my experience)
> *>

We want to go beyond being a basic translator. Especially if the
common use-case will be integrating multiple databases. We can also
introduce decent-looking hints (maybe not always decent looking) to
generate better plans. Not sure about asethetics though...

>* So, I would tend to code the SQL separately and put it in a SQL view, function or stored procedure.  I can still parse the results with LINQ (not LINQ to SQL), which is fine.
> *> >* For similar reasons, I'm not a huge fan of ORMs either.  Probably my bias towards designing the database first and building up queries to meet the business goals before writing a line of Python, C#, or the language de jour.
> *

This sounds completely reasonable, but this means you?re tied to a
specific DBMS (especially if you?re using a lot of built-in functions
that are usually very specific to a database). PythonQL (when it has
enough functionality) should give you independence.


True though not always needed.  e.g. at present I'm working for a large
company with thousands of db servers in all the popular flavors.  The
probability of changing even one of them to a different vendor is
essentially zero.  The costs and dependencies far outweigh any hoped-for
advantage.  At the same time, I'm happy to optimize the SQL for different
target environments.  If I lack the specific expertise, I know where to go
to find it.  The Adapter pattern helps here.

It's actually more important for me to build queries that can be used in
multiple client languages. We're using Java, C++, C#, F#, VB, ...  and
Python, of course (and probably others that I don't know we use). I can
optimize the query once and not worry about the clients messing it up.

-- 
Gerald Britton, MCSE-DP, MVP
LinkedIn Profile: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/geraldbritton


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 23:04:31 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 20:04:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.65.1490583624.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
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 <CAEfz+Tw_eA+b9vqGwSNG4p+dTe+BhH=PYN8_k3LsGevf7uo8mQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.60.1490570841.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <5b045f7e-1c63-45ad-ad5e-5385f33e06e1@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmpMbKh2Chb+t9LLnbsEc_G6=L6yKvAE3SYMFVcU98bCTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.64.1490582570.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <22b18365-ca0e-46b9-9e51-f68ae201b36e@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmoE1BgfhMDLKQA3-iLGo7x3HpmcrtkwRcioTM+OpnOOew@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.65.1490583624.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <47db4e13-4733-4d14-86fa-5561f23f7a4b@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 27 ??????? 2017 - 6:00:34 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Chris Angelico ??????:
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 1:52 PM, ????? ?????? <me.on.nzt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Its NOT that i have not read it exactly, but for some strange reason i was under the belief that the way i had syntactically typed the UPDATE query was correctly and more consistent and similar to thr INSERT query and it was prefered to me over the other one.
> >
> > UPDATE visitors SET (pagesID, host, ref, location, useros, browser, visits) VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s) WHERE host LIKE "%s"
> >
> > Its still a mystery to em whay this fails syntactically when at the same time INSERT works like that.
> >
> > We give each columnn a specific value i don't see why it must only be written as UPDATE visitors SET a=1, b=2, c=3 ... WHERE host LIKE %s.
> >
> > i knew that would work, but the first way although proven syntactically wrong seems so right .....
> 
> It'd be even more logical to write:
> 
> UPDATE visitors INCREMENT visits WHERE host CONTAINS %s;
> 
> I should just use that syntax, and if it doesn't work, I'm going to
> post onto a mailing list until it magically starts working. It's NOT
> that I haven't read the docs - I'm just going to wilfully ignore them.
> 
> Okay, I'm done now.
> 
> ChrisA

Okey i have taken my lesson.
I should have written it as the doc suggested instead of being persistent on finding what was worng in the way i had written it....


From altaurog at gmail.com  Mon Mar 27 02:01:59 2017
From: altaurog at gmail.com (altaurog at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 23:01:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pgcopy 1.2.0
Message-ID: <04b1bef3-19dd-4024-9be5-34f43cc3b63d@googlegroups.com>

pgcopy 1.2.0 is now available!
<https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pgcopy>

pgcopy is a small utility for fast inserts to postgresql using binary copy.

features:
* Support for many datatypes
* Tested with python 2.7 and 3.3 - 3.6
* Works with postgresql versions 8.4 - 9.6
* Cache data on disk or in memory
* Supports explicit db schema


From johann.spies at gmail.com  Mon Mar 27 03:52:05 2017
From: johann.spies at gmail.com (Johann Spies)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 09:52:05 +0200
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <47db4e13-4733-4d14-86fa-5561f23f7a4b@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <d476675c-f89a-4dcf-bff4-725dbdf43564@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+Tzh2sDsC_=nC7UgLMJVX=Zvwpa6OiUxy=MDubJuGVsgKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Vb2TEAWg_fbuqkypqapZ_7btRXoMs2O93FcsuuqwLz3DfSMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+Tw_eA+b9vqGwSNG4p+dTe+BhH=PYN8_k3LsGevf7uo8mQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.60.1490570841.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <5b045f7e-1c63-45ad-ad5e-5385f33e06e1@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmpMbKh2Chb+t9LLnbsEc_G6=L6yKvAE3SYMFVcU98bCTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.64.1490582570.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <22b18365-ca0e-46b9-9e51-f68ae201b36e@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmoE1BgfhMDLKQA3-iLGo7x3HpmcrtkwRcioTM+OpnOOew@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.65.1490583624.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <47db4e13-4733-4d14-86fa-5561f23f7a4b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAGZ55DTeLdh0Wbdukzu9krWGbGnFYGBZZGJx5W2gyhWj=iTxjA@mail.gmail.com>

?????,

I am glad that you solved the problem.

I am not using mysql but postgresql.  When I get a problem using python to
communicate with the database, one of my first steps will be to determine
whether the error is a python (maybe psycopg-related) related error or a
database error.  What I do then is to use the string python is sending to
the database and try to run that on the commandline interface to the
database (psgl) or something like pgadmin3.  Mysql have similar tools.

Once you have determined that it a database related problem, it should be
easy to sort it out on that side.  If it works on the database the rest of
the problem should be solved on the python side.

Maybe this approach would have saved you some time.

Regards
Johann
-- 
Because experiencing your loyal love is better than life itself,
my lips will praise you.  (Psalm 63:3)


From mal at europython.eu  Mon Mar 27 04:20:59 2017
From: mal at europython.eu (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 10:20:59 +0200
Subject: EuroPython 2017: Call for Proposals is open
Message-ID: <a42c21c5-d61c-5d3b-ca6d-90759ff8e125@europython.eu>

We?re looking for proposals on every aspect of Python: programming
from novice to advanced levels, applications and frameworks, or how
you have been involved in introducing Python into your organization.
EuroPython is a community conference and we are eager to
hear about your experience.

Please also forward this Call for Proposals to anyone that you feel
may be interested.


     *** https://ep2017.europython.eu/en/call-for-proposals/ ***

                   Submissions will be open until
                  Sunday, April 16, 23:59:59 CEST


Please note that we will not have a second call for proposals as we
did in 2016, so if you want to enter a proposal, please consider to do
this in the next few days.


For full details, please see the above CFP page. We have many exciting
things waiting for you:

* PyData EuroPython 2017 as part of EuroPython

* a whole range of interesting formats, including talks, training
  sessions, panels, interactive sessions, posters and helpdesks

* tracks to focus on more specific domains, including the revived
  EuroPython Business Track

* speaker discounts for more than just talks and trainings


Enjoy,
--
EuroPython 2017 Team
http://ep2017.europython.eu/
http://www.europython-society.org/

PS: Please forward or retweet to help us reach all interested parties:
https://twitter.com/europython/status/846274948003958784
Thanks.


From me.on.nzt at gmail.com  Mon Mar 27 05:03:18 2017
From: me.on.nzt at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?zp3Or866zr/PgiDOks6tz4HOs86/z4I=?=)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 09:03:18 +0000
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <CAGZ55DTeLdh0Wbdukzu9krWGbGnFYGBZZGJx5W2gyhWj=iTxjA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5o9woh12c.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <19c6bc3e-9255-437b-8287-074fb2c068ea@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+TyDqm-Y4MCv3TDX_DHm5vXtJ7eDCPA6kkV9TTG9xm2Jtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.15.1490537057.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6b8df203-a0a0-4267-a6a4-fd685627a6d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnegqWNT7e_2hpJE+zM8z8vahxvnoKBPKuCdg2KFje55g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <d476675c-f89a-4dcf-bff4-725dbdf43564@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+Tzh2sDsC_=nC7UgLMJVX=Zvwpa6OiUxy=MDubJuGVsgKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Vb2TEAWg_fbuqkypqapZ_7btRXoMs2O93FcsuuqwLz3DfSMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+Tw_eA+b9vqGwSNG4p+dTe+BhH=PYN8_k3LsGevf7uo8mQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.60.1490570841.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <5b045f7e-1c63-45ad-ad5e-5385f33e06e1@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmpMbKh2Chb+t9LLnbsEc_G6=L6yKvAE3SYMFVcU98bCTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.64.1490582570.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <22b18365-ca0e-46b9-9e51-f68ae201b36e@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmoE1BgfhMDLKQA3-iLGo7x3HpmcrtkwRcioTM+OpnOOew@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.65.1490583624.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <47db4e13-4733-4d14-86fa-5561f23f7a4b@googlegroups.com>
 <CAGZ55DTeLdh0Wbdukzu9krWGbGnFYGBZZGJx5W2gyhWj=iTxjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Vb2TGE_cBkymFsqGBM4MCrqKzOGHQ=OSOOWndUBpST6JjbmQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you very much Johann.

i was using print(update wuery here) and i was seeing that print was able
to parser the query and that consused me as to why execute wont do the same
since with print all values was gettign substituted.

of course pymysql doesnt behave the same with print but until i fugure that
out cost me lots of time.

???? ???, 27 ??? 2017 ???? 10:52 ?.?., ?/? Johann Spies <
johann.spies at gmail.com> ??????:

> ?????,
>
> I am glad that you solved the problem.
>
> I am not using mysql but postgresql.  When I get a problem using python to
> communicate with the database, one of my first steps will be to determine
> whether the error is a python (maybe psycopg-related) related error or a
> database error.  What I do then is to use the string python is sending to
> the database and try to run that on the commandline interface to the
> database (psgl) or something like pgadmin3.  Mysql have similar tools.
>
> Once you have determined that it a database related problem, it should be
> easy to sort it out on that side.  If it works on the database the rest of
> the problem should be solved on the python side.
>
> Maybe this approach would have saved you some time.
>
> Regards
> Johann
> --
> Because experiencing your loyal love is better than life itself,
> my lips will praise you.  (Psalm 63:3)
>
-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Mon Mar 27 05:34:38 2017
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 11:34:38 +0200
Subject: C-Python and Endianness
In-Reply-To: <CACT3xuU3d0E-qsADc5kyo5bONaNqLg=HDgTYcO=0TKtf=kaDNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACT3xuU3d0E-qsADc5kyo5bONaNqLg=HDgTYcO=0TKtf=kaDNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <28bfac08-37fc-cb1f-bfa4-0fa033f162c2@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 26-03-17 om 08:47 schreef Ganesh Pal:
> Hello Team ,
>
>
>
>
> I want  to write the  hexadecimal string that is passed from python  as  it
> is  on disk in C  , my problem is that  the values are getting stored  in
> little endian and

Are you sure you are passing a string? Or are you passing a number and expecting
a particulare result when you hexdump the file?

> the values are  swapped it has been quite a pain for me to fix this , any
> suggestion on how to fix this (I am on Python 2.7 and Linux).

Why is this a problem? This is how things usually work on little endians
machines. If you are just reading and writing numbers in a binary way
this will work without a problem. However you may need to be carefull
when transferring the file to a bigendian machine.

So why do you perceive this swapping as a problem to be fixed?

-- 
Antoon.



From zopyxfilter at gmail.com  Mon Mar 27 07:40:35 2017
From: zopyxfilter at gmail.com (filtered)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 13:40:35 +0200
Subject: Using/compiling pyuno with Python 3.6
Message-ID: <CAL3mDbxLnk1d4awTGTtRPv4QT=5FOLekeTGCtDKdasRN1e3ctA@mail.gmail.com>

I am running CentOS 7.1 with LibreOffice 5.0.6.2.

I have installed the official pyuno package from CentOS.

I installed Python 3.6.1 from the sources and now I am trying to import
pyuno which fails with

ajung at dev.zopyx.com:~/src/docx> bin/python
Python 3.6.1 (default, Mar 27 2017, 13:27:24)
[GCC 4.8.5 20150623 (Red Hat 4.8.5-11)] on linux

ajung at dev.zopyx.com:~/src/docx> bin/python -c "import uno"
Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
 File "/home/ajung/src/docx/uno.py", line 24, in <module>
   import pyuno
ImportError: dynamic module does not define module export function
(PyInit_pyuno)

Is there a straight forward way for compiling pyuno myself? I could not
find any official documentation,
links to various posts are older than 5 years...

Andreas


From jsmcmahon3 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 27 17:34:59 2017
From: jsmcmahon3 at gmail.com (James McMahon)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 17:34:59 -0400
Subject: Logging from different python scripts to different output files
Message-ID: <CAEqJCe2Q2DmbYH3Uxk74dd3bFAcwXDQFcFZwNmxJ1TczJ-BYVQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'm struggling with Python logging. Have tried to apply several examples I
have found in the open source literature, but can't get it to work. What I
need to do is this: I have two python scripts, a.py and b.py. Each is
called by NiFi ExecuteScript processor repeatedly against many incoming
flowfiles. In every case I need to output log messages to two distinct and
different log files. My scripts run in the same Python interpreter, which
as i understand it means they rely on the same root level logger. I have
tried establishing non-root loggers for each, and associating distinct file
handles for each to those loggers.

My output still appears in multiple log files, and appears to be repeating
in increasing numbers each time I try a test run (first test, output line
appeared in log once. second test, twice. third test, three times, etc). Is
there an example that anyone knows of that demonstrates how two
concurrently running python scripts within the same interpreter can direct
output to two distinct log files? Thanks in advance for any help.


From jan at hyper-world.de  Mon Mar 27 17:57:18 2017
From: jan at hyper-world.de (Jan Gosmann)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 17:57:18 -0400
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
Message-ID: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>

Hi,

I have a program which uses twice as much memory when I run it in Python 
3.6 than when I run it in Python 3.5 (about 60GB instead of 30GB). I 
tried to find the reason for that, but the cumulated size (measured with 
sys.getsizeof) of all objects returned by gc.get_objects accumulates 
only to about 17GB in both cases. The program also uses NumPy and I 
tried tracking allocations with the NumPy allocation tracker in the 
relevant part of the program, but again the number of allocations are 
almost identical and the reported maximum memory usage perfectly agrees 
(it is about 18GB).

Any ideas where this significant increase in memory consumption could 
come from? Or any ideas how to further debug this?

Looking at the changelog it seems that the only change in Python 3.6 
affecting memory usage is the new dict implementation which is supposed 
to be more memory efficient. In fact, this is what I find if I run the 
program with a smaller test cases. There the memory consumption is less 
with Python 3.6.

Cheers, Jan


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Mar 27 18:30:12 2017
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 00:30:12 +0200
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
Message-ID: <obc3pe$tes$1@blaine.gmane.org>

Jan Gosmann wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have a program which uses twice as much memory when I run it in Python
> 3.6 than when I run it in Python 3.5 (about 60GB instead of 30GB). I
> tried to find the reason for that, but the cumulated size (measured with
> sys.getsizeof) of all objects returned by gc.get_objects accumulates
> only to about 17GB in both cases. The program also uses NumPy and I
> tried tracking allocations with the NumPy allocation tracker in the
> relevant part of the program, but again the number of allocations are
> almost identical and the reported maximum memory usage perfectly agrees
> (it is about 18GB).
> 
> Any ideas where this significant increase in memory consumption could
> come from? Or any ideas how to further debug this?
> 
> Looking at the changelog it seems that the only change in Python 3.6
> affecting memory usage is the new dict implementation which is supposed
> to be more memory efficient. In fact, this is what I find if I run the
> program with a smaller test cases. There the memory consumption is less
> with Python 3.6.

Are you perchance comparing 32-bit Python 3.5 with 64-bit Python 3.6?



From jan at hyper-world.de  Mon Mar 27 18:38:29 2017
From: jan at hyper-world.de (Jan Gosmann)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 18:38:29 -0400
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <obc3pe$tes$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <obc3pe$tes$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <E76D609F-3D77-409E-9160-E5B6C51D1D0D@hyper-world.de>

On 27 Mar 2017, at 18:30, Peter Otten wrote:

> Are you perchance comparing 32-bit Python 3.5 with 64-bit Python 3.6?

I don't think so. 
[sys.maxsize](https://docs.python.org/3/library/platform.html#cross-platform) 
indicates both to be 64-bit.

From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Mar 27 18:42:28 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 09:42:28 +1100
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 8:57 AM, Jan Gosmann <jan at hyper-world.de> wrote:
> I have a program which uses twice as much memory when I run it in Python 3.6
> than when I run it in Python 3.5 (about 60GB instead of 30GB). I tried to
> find the reason for that, but the cumulated size (measured with
> sys.getsizeof) of all objects returned by gc.get_objects accumulates only to
> about 17GB in both cases. The program also uses NumPy and I tried tracking
> allocations with the NumPy allocation tracker in the relevant part of the
> program, but again the number of allocations are almost identical and the
> reported maximum memory usage perfectly agrees (it is about 18GB).
>
> Any ideas where this significant increase in memory consumption could come
> from? Or any ideas how to further debug this?

Are you able to share the program? I could try it on my system and see
if the same thing happens.

ChrisA


From jan at hyper-world.de  Mon Mar 27 19:01:02 2017
From: jan at hyper-world.de (Jan Gosmann)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 19:01:02 -0400
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>

On 27 Mar 2017, at 18:42, Chris Angelico wrote:

> Are you able to share the program? I could try it on my system and see
> if the same thing happens.

Yes, it is on GitHub (use the fixes branch): 
https://github.com/ctn-archive/gosmann-frontiers2017/tree/fixes
Installation instructions are in the readme.
The command I'm running is `python scripts/log_reduction.py spaun`

I was looking at the output of htop to see the memory consumption. The 
`time` built-in of the zsh might report a lower memory usage (I'm 
running it right now to make sure), which would also be surprising. But 
I'm certain that Python 3.6 uses more memory because the run time 
increases due to using the swap partition.

If you run the program, it will take an initial 10?15 minutes of 
processing during which the memory usage should increase to roughly 
10GB. Then the output ?[INFO] Optimizing model...? will be printed 
after which the memory usage continues to increase to around 30GB (maybe 
a bit more with Python 3.6). This constitutes a first ?optimization 
pass? that will be ended with the message ?[INFO] Pass 1 [views]: 
Reduced 996917 to 913666 operators in 62.519006s.? Then in the second 
optimization pass the memory consumption will continue to increase with 
Python 3.6 (up to ~60GB being consumed, where less than 5GB should be 
due to other processes, though the virtual and resident memory reported 
for the Python process are only ~42GB and ~30GB respectively) and in 
later passes it will start decreasing again. With Python 3.5 the memory 
consumption stays about 30GB and decreases in later passes.

Let me know if you have more questions.

From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Mar 27 20:00:37 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 11:00:37 +1100
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Jan Gosmann <jan at hyper-world.de> wrote:
> Yes, it is on GitHub (use the fixes branch):
> https://github.com/ctn-archive/gosmann-frontiers2017/tree/fixes
> Installation instructions are in the readme.
> The command I'm running is python scripts/log_reduction.py spaun

Working on it.

By the way, since you're aiming this at recent Python versions, you
could skip the 'virtualenv' external dependency and use the built-in
'venv' package:

$ python3 -m venv env

I'm a little confused here. When I install PIP requirements, it wants
to set up OpenCL, but your README seems to be contrasting your
implementation with the OpenCL one. Or is that for the sake of
benchmarking, so you can compare one against the other?

In any case, I've installed nvidia-opencl-dev and it seems to be
happy. How long should I expect this to run for?

Now testing under CPython 3.7.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Mar 27 20:12:58 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 11:12:58 +1100
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 11:00 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> In any case, I've installed nvidia-opencl-dev and it seems to be
> happy. How long should I expect this to run for?
>
> Now testing under CPython 3.7.
>

It ran for about 14 minutes, then memory usage spiked and went into
the page file. Used roughly 8GB of RAM prior to that point, I think?
Unfortunately, I don't think my hard disk is fast enough for this to
run through the page file in any reasonable time.

ChrisA


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Mar 27 20:14:21 2017
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 13:14:21 +1300
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
In-Reply-To: <22b18365-ca0e-46b9-9e51-f68ae201b36e@googlegroups.com>
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <d476675c-f89a-4dcf-bff4-725dbdf43564@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+Tzh2sDsC_=nC7UgLMJVX=Zvwpa6OiUxy=MDubJuGVsgKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Vb2TEAWg_fbuqkypqapZ_7btRXoMs2O93FcsuuqwLz3DfSMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+Tw_eA+b9vqGwSNG4p+dTe+BhH=PYN8_k3LsGevf7uo8mQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.60.1490570841.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <5b045f7e-1c63-45ad-ad5e-5385f33e06e1@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmpMbKh2Chb+t9LLnbsEc_G6=L6yKvAE3SYMFVcU98bCTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.64.1490582570.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <22b18365-ca0e-46b9-9e51-f68ae201b36e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ejto6tFga0fU1@mid.individual.net>

????? ?????? wrote:

> Its still a mystery to em whay this fails syntactically when at the same time
> INSERT works like that.

I don't think *anyone* understands why SQL was designed with
INSERT and UPDATE having completely different syntaxes.
But it was, and we have to live with it.

-- 
Greg


From python at deborahswanson.net  Mon Mar 27 21:40:12 2017
From: python at deborahswanson.net (Deborah Swanson)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 18:40:12 -0700
Subject: Using/compiling pyuno with Python 3.6
In-Reply-To: <CAL3mDbxLnk1d4awTGTtRPv4QT=5FOLekeTGCtDKdasRN1e3ctA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <011b01d2a764$3e7774f0$27b23dae@sambora>

filtered wrote, on Monday, March 27, 2017 4:41 AM
> 
> I am running CentOS 7.1 with LibreOffice 5.0.6.2.
> 
> I have installed the official pyuno package from CentOS.
> 
> I installed Python 3.6.1 from the sources and now I am trying 
> to import pyuno which fails with
> 
> ajung at dev.zopyx.com:~/src/docx> bin/python
> Python 3.6.1 (default, Mar 27 2017, 13:27:24)
> [GCC 4.8.5 20150623 (Red Hat 4.8.5-11)] on linux
> 
> ajung at dev.zopyx.com:~/src/docx> bin/python -c "import uno" 
> Traceback (most recent call last):  File "<string>", line 1, 
> in <module>  File "/home/ajung/src/docx/uno.py", line 24, in <module>
>    import pyuno
> ImportError: dynamic module does not define module export function
> (PyInit_pyuno)
> 
> Is there a straight forward way for compiling pyuno myself? I 
> could not find any official documentation, links to various 
> posts are older than 5 years...
> 
> Andreas

I have no idea how to compile pyuno from sources. But if I were in your
place, I'd look for other repositories that might have pyuno. It's been
awhile since I had a Linux machine (it was also CentOS) and I generally
found multiple repositories to try when the standard one failed.



From eric.frederich at gmail.com  Mon Mar 27 21:59:53 2017
From: eric.frederich at gmail.com (Eric Frederich)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 21:59:53 -0400
Subject: Windows / ctypes issue with custom build
Message-ID: <CAAoZyYOphyV3P6GAQCKk=5RcDo7eNx=zpmb1FXnorVdmvONatg@mail.gmail.com>

I built my own Python 2.7.13 for Windows because I'm using bindings to a
3rd party application which were built with Visual Studio 2012.
I started to code up some stuff using the "click" module and found an error
when using click.echo with any kind of unicode input.

    Python 2.7.13 (default, Mar 27 2017, 11:11:01) [MSC v.1700 64 bit
(AMD64)] on win32
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> import click
    >>> click.echo('Hello World')
    Hello World
    >>> click.echo(u'Hello World')
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
      File "C:\Users\eric\my_env\lib\site-packages\click\utils.py", line
259, in echo
        file.write(message)
      File "C:\Users\eric\my_env\lib\site-packages\click\_winconsole.py",
line 180, in write
        return self._text_stream.write(x)
      File "C:\Users\eric\my_env\lib\site-packages\click\_compat.py", line
63, in write
        return io.TextIOWrapper.write(self, x)
      File "C:\Users\eric\my_env\lib\site-packages\click\_winconsole.py",
line 164, in write
        raise OSError(self._get_error_message(GetLastError()))
    OSError: Windows error 6

If I download and install the Python 2.7.13 64-bit installer I don't get
this issue.  It echo's just fine.
I have looked into this a lot and am at a loss right now.
I'm not too familiar with Windows, Visual Studio, or ctypes.

I spent some time looking at the code path to produce the smallest file
(without click) which demonstrates this problem (see below)
It produces the same "Windows error 6"... again, this works fine with the
python installed from the 2.7.13 64 bit MSI installer.
Can someone share the process used to create the Windows installers?  Is
this a manual process or is it automated?
Maybe I'm missing some important switch to msbuild or something.  Any help
or ideas are appreciated.
I cannot use a downloaded copy of Python... it needs to be built with a
specific version, update, patch, etc of Visual Studio.

All I did was
1) clone cpython from github and checkout 2.7.13
2) edit some xp stuff out of tk stuff to get it to compile on Windows
Server 2003
    In `externals\tk-8.5.15.0\win\Makefile.in` remove
`ttkWinXPTheme.$(OBJEXT)` line
    In `externals\tk-8.5.15.0\win\makefile.vc` remove
`$(TMP_DIR)\ttkWinXPTheme.obj` line
    In `externals\tk-8.5.15.0\win\ttkWinMonitor.c` remove 2
`TtkXPTheme_Init` lines
    In `PCbuild\tcltk.props` change VC9 to VC11 at the bottom
3) PCbuild\build.bat -e -p x64 "/p:PlatformToolset=v110"

After that I created an "install" by copying .exe, .pyd, .dll files, ran
get-pip.py, then python -m pip install virtualenv, then virtualenv my_env,
then activated it, then did a pip install click.
But with this stripped down version you don't need pip, virtualenv or
click... just ctypes.
You could probably even build it without the -e switch to build.bat.

    from ctypes import byref, POINTER, py_object, pythonapi, Structure,
windll
    from ctypes import c_char, c_char_p, c_int, c_ssize_t, c_ulong, c_void_p
    c_ssize_p = POINTER(c_ssize_t)

    kernel32 = windll.kernel32
    STDOUT_HANDLE = kernel32.GetStdHandle(-11)

    PyBUF_SIMPLE = 0
    MAX_BYTES_WRITTEN = 32767

    class Py_buffer(Structure):
        _fields_ = [
            ('buf', c_void_p),
            ('obj', py_object),
            ('len', c_ssize_t),
            ('itemsize', c_ssize_t),
            ('readonly', c_int),
            ('ndim', c_int),
            ('format', c_char_p),
            ('shape', c_ssize_p),
            ('strides', c_ssize_p),
            ('suboffsets', c_ssize_p),
            ('internal', c_void_p)
        ]
        _fields_.insert(-1, ('smalltable', c_ssize_t * 2))

    bites = u"Hello World".encode('utf-16-le')
    bytes_to_be_written = len(bites)
    buf = Py_buffer()
    pythonapi.PyObject_GetBuffer(py_object(bites), byref(buf), PyBUF_SIMPLE)
    buffer_type = c_char * buf.len
    buf = buffer_type.from_address(buf.buf)
    code_units_to_be_written = min(bytes_to_be_written, MAX_BYTES_WRITTEN)
// 2
    code_units_written = c_ulong()

    kernel32.WriteConsoleW(STDOUT_HANDLE, buf, code_units_to_be_written,
byref(code_units_written), None)
    bytes_written = 2 * code_units_written.value

    if bytes_written == 0 and bytes_to_be_written > 0:
        raise OSError('Windows error %s' % kernel32.GetLastError())


From torriem at gmail.com  Mon Mar 27 22:36:08 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 20:36:08 -0600
Subject: Using/compiling pyuno with Python 3.6
In-Reply-To: <CAL3mDbxLnk1d4awTGTtRPv4QT=5FOLekeTGCtDKdasRN1e3ctA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL3mDbxLnk1d4awTGTtRPv4QT=5FOLekeTGCtDKdasRN1e3ctA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1806c8a2-5e0c-80be-1c35-8f46cd9308a9@gmail.com>

On 03/27/2017 05:40 AM, filtered wrote:
> I am running CentOS 7.1 with LibreOffice 5.0.6.2.
> 
> I have installed the official pyuno package from CentOS.
> 
> I installed Python 3.6.1 from the sources and now I am trying to import
> pyuno which fails with
> 
> ajung at dev.zopyx.com:~/src/docx> bin/python
> Python 3.6.1 (default, Mar 27 2017, 13:27:24)
> [GCC 4.8.5 20150623 (Red Hat 4.8.5-11)] on linux
> 
> ajung at dev.zopyx.com:~/src/docx> bin/python -c "import uno"
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
>  File "/home/ajung/src/docx/uno.py", line 24, in <module>
>    import pyuno
> ImportError: dynamic module does not define module export function
> (PyInit_pyuno)
> 
> Is there a straight forward way for compiling pyuno myself? I could not
> find any official documentation,
> links to various posts are older than 5 years...

Pretty sure PyUno is Python 2 only.  Looks like there might be an
alternative in the form of unotools:
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/unotools



From jf_byrnes at comcast.net  Mon Mar 27 23:13:13 2017
From: jf_byrnes at comcast.net (Jim)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 22:13:13 -0500
Subject: Using/compiling pyuno with Python 3.6
In-Reply-To: <1806c8a2-5e0c-80be-1c35-8f46cd9308a9@gmail.com>
References: <CAL3mDbxLnk1d4awTGTtRPv4QT=5FOLekeTGCtDKdasRN1e3ctA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1806c8a2-5e0c-80be-1c35-8f46cd9308a9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <obckc3$eup$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 03/27/2017 09:36 PM, Michael Torrie wrote:
> On 03/27/2017 05:40 AM, filtered wrote:
>> I am running CentOS 7.1 with LibreOffice 5.0.6.2.
>>
>> I have installed the official pyuno package from CentOS.
>>
>> I installed Python 3.6.1 from the sources and now I am trying to import
>> pyuno which fails with
>>
>> ajung at dev.zopyx.com:~/src/docx> bin/python
>> Python 3.6.1 (default, Mar 27 2017, 13:27:24)
>> [GCC 4.8.5 20150623 (Red Hat 4.8.5-11)] on linux
>>
>> ajung at dev.zopyx.com:~/src/docx> bin/python -c "import uno"
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
>>  File "/home/ajung/src/docx/uno.py", line 24, in <module>
>>    import pyuno
>> ImportError: dynamic module does not define module export function
>> (PyInit_pyuno)
>>
>> Is there a straight forward way for compiling pyuno myself? I could not
>> find any official documentation,
>> links to various posts are older than 5 years...
>
> Pretty sure PyUno is Python 2 only.  Looks like there might be an
> alternative in the form of unotools:
> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/unotools
>

I don't know if this is of any help but I am running Mint 18 with Python 
3.5 and I have a package installed called python3-uno which is described 
as "Python-UNO bridge". Maybe CentOS has a similarly name package.

regards,  Jim



From jan at hyper-world.de  Mon Mar 27 23:15:12 2017
From: jan at hyper-world.de (Jan Gosmann)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 23:15:12 -0400
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DDAD02D9-8411-4355-9F7A-47F39F70AB29@hyper-world.de>

On 27 Mar 2017, at 20:00, Chris Angelico wrote:

> By the way, since you're aiming this at recent Python versions, you
> could skip the 'virtualenv' external dependency and use the built-in
> 'venv' package:
>
> $ python3 -m venv env

Yeah, I know about venv. The last time I tried it, there was still some 
issue that prevented me from using it and I'm also still targeting 2.7 
too.

> I'm a little confused here. When I install PIP requirements, it wants
> to set up OpenCL, but your README seems to be contrasting your
> implementation with the OpenCL one. Or is that for the sake of
> benchmarking, so you can compare one against the other?

Right, the PIP requirements are more than actually required for this 
particular problem. But it is indeed for benchmarking comparing 
different backends for a neural network simulator.

For the log_reduction.py script the nengo==2.3.1 and numpy==1.12.0 are 
probably sufficient.

> In any case, I've installed nvidia-opencl-dev and it seems to be
> happy. How long should I expect this to run for?

On an Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-1650 v3 @ 3.50GHz with 32GB RAM it 
probably takes about 30 minutes with Python 3.5; longer with 3.6 because 
things get written to the swap partition.

Jan


From jan at hyper-world.de  Mon Mar 27 23:25:43 2017
From: jan at hyper-world.de (Jan Gosmann)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 23:25:43 -0400
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EEF50688-64BD-42C1-8B13-612F182C5D7C@hyper-world.de>

On 27 Mar 2017, at 20:12, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 11:00 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>> In any case, I've installed nvidia-opencl-dev and it seems to be
>> happy. How long should I expect this to run for?
>>
>> Now testing under CPython 3.7.
>>
>
> It ran for about 14 minutes, then memory usage spiked and went into
> the page file. Used roughly 8GB of RAM prior to that point, I think?
> Unfortunately, I don't think my hard disk is fast enough for this to
> run through the page file in any reasonable time.

Yeah, it will be problematic with less than 32GB.

My latest findings: The zsh `time` built-in reports a maximum of only 
30GB used which seems to correspond to the resident memory size, while 
the virtual memory size exceeds 40GB for the process and the total 
memory allocated over all processes exceeds 60GB (with the main 
contribution from the process that supposedly only uses ~40GB).

My best idea about what's going on at the moment is that memory 
fragmentation is worse in Python 3.6 for some reason. The virtual memory 
size indicates that a large address space is acquired, but the resident 
memory size is smaller indicating that not all of that address space is 
actually used. In fact, the code might be especially bad to 
fragmentation because it takes a lot of small NumPy arrays and 
concatenates them into larger arrays. But I'm still surprised that this 
is only a problem with Python 3.6 (if this hypothesis is correct).

Jan

From torriem at gmail.com  Mon Mar 27 23:49:09 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 21:49:09 -0600
Subject: Using/compiling pyuno with Python 3.6
In-Reply-To: <obckc3$eup$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <CAL3mDbxLnk1d4awTGTtRPv4QT=5FOLekeTGCtDKdasRN1e3ctA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1806c8a2-5e0c-80be-1c35-8f46cd9308a9@gmail.com>
 <obckc3$eup$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <e9113d6b-e1d3-7c45-5791-f0879a075c16@gmail.com>

On 03/27/2017 09:13 PM, Jim wrote:
> I don't know if this is of any help but I am running Mint 18 with Python 
> 3.5 and I have a package installed called python3-uno which is described 
> as "Python-UNO bridge". Maybe CentOS has a similarly name package.

You're right. In fact it looks like LibreOffice 5.3 at least ships with
Python 3.5 as part of the package, and comes with pyuno as part of that.
Try running the python binary from the LibreOffice install directory (on
my machine that is
/opt/libreoffice5.3/program/python).  I'm not sure how to work with
pyuno outside of the LO-shipped python.



From zopyxfilter at gmail.com  Tue Mar 28 00:09:27 2017
From: zopyxfilter at gmail.com (filtered)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 06:09:27 +0200
Subject: Using/compiling pyuno with Python 3.6
In-Reply-To: <e9113d6b-e1d3-7c45-5791-f0879a075c16@gmail.com>
References: <CAL3mDbxLnk1d4awTGTtRPv4QT=5FOLekeTGCtDKdasRN1e3ctA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1806c8a2-5e0c-80be-1c35-8f46cd9308a9@gmail.com>
 <obckc3$eup$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <e9113d6b-e1d3-7c45-5791-f0879a075c16@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL3mDbweogY8Dh6qikzrijdSPPW5e3nSHYhW-WkH-+rikgdarQ@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry but all your answers are pointless.

I clearly asked about compiling PyUno MYSELF with a self-compiled
Python 3.6.1 installation. Is this so hard to understand? Why do you give
unrelated comments to a clear questions? Sometimes it is better to be quiet.

-aj

2017-03-28 5:49 GMT+02:00 Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com>:

> On 03/27/2017 09:13 PM, Jim wrote:
> > I don't know if this is of any help but I am running Mint 18 with Python
> > 3.5 and I have a package installed called python3-uno which is described
> > as "Python-UNO bridge". Maybe CentOS has a similarly name package.
>
> You're right. In fact it looks like LibreOffice 5.3 at least ships with
> Python 3.5 as part of the package, and comes with pyuno as part of that.
> Try running the python binary from the LibreOffice install directory (on
> my machine that is
> /opt/libreoffice5.3/program/python).  I'm not sure how to work with
> pyuno outside of the LO-shipped python.
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From torriem at gmail.com  Tue Mar 28 00:33:55 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 22:33:55 -0600
Subject: Using/compiling pyuno with Python 3.6
In-Reply-To: <CAL3mDbweogY8Dh6qikzrijdSPPW5e3nSHYhW-WkH-+rikgdarQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL3mDbxLnk1d4awTGTtRPv4QT=5FOLekeTGCtDKdasRN1e3ctA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1806c8a2-5e0c-80be-1c35-8f46cd9308a9@gmail.com>
 <obckc3$eup$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <e9113d6b-e1d3-7c45-5791-f0879a075c16@gmail.com>
 <CAL3mDbweogY8Dh6qikzrijdSPPW5e3nSHYhW-WkH-+rikgdarQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4fa426c0-303f-bbb1-7df2-268ac78d5229@gmail.com>

On 03/27/2017 10:09 PM, filtered wrote:
> Sorry but all your answers are pointless.

Possibly.

> I clearly asked about compiling PyUno MYSELF with a self-compiled
> Python 3.6.1 installation. Is this so hard to understand? Why do you give
> unrelated comments to a clear questions? 

Sometimes clear questions don't have easy answers.  Or rather there's a
process of problem solving and Jim and I were exploring that process a
bit.  But I don't think any of us will go further with it now.  I did
find the source code for pyuno in the main LO tree, but it doesn't look
easy to build out of tree, but that's just at first glance.

I suspect you'll find better information on one of the LO mailing lists
or forums, provided you don't react to them as you have to this list!

> Sometimes it is better to be quiet.

Indeed.

Good luck.

ciao


From torriem at gmail.com  Tue Mar 28 00:36:36 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 22:36:36 -0600
Subject: Using/compiling pyuno with Python 3.6
In-Reply-To: <CAL3mDbweogY8Dh6qikzrijdSPPW5e3nSHYhW-WkH-+rikgdarQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL3mDbxLnk1d4awTGTtRPv4QT=5FOLekeTGCtDKdasRN1e3ctA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1806c8a2-5e0c-80be-1c35-8f46cd9308a9@gmail.com>
 <obckc3$eup$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <e9113d6b-e1d3-7c45-5791-f0879a075c16@gmail.com>
 <CAL3mDbweogY8Dh6qikzrijdSPPW5e3nSHYhW-WkH-+rikgdarQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bd222e55-3cdb-0729-c5f3-2046175a9eee@gmail.com>

On 03/27/2017 10:09 PM, filtered wrote:
> Sorry but all your answers are pointless.

Possibly.

> I clearly asked about compiling PyUno MYSELF with a self-compiled
> Python 3.6.1 installation. Is this so hard to understand? Why do you give
> unrelated comments to a clear questions? 

Sometimes clear questions don't have easy answers.  Or rather there's a
process of problem solving and Jim and I were exploring that process a
bit.  But I don't think any of us will go further with it now.  I did
find the source code for pyuno in the main LO tree, but it doesn't look
easy to build out of tree, but that's just at first glance.

I suspect you'll find better information on one of the LO mailing lists
or forums, provided you don't react to them as you have to this list!

> Sometimes it is better to be quiet.

Indeed.

Good luck.

ciao


From python at deborahswanson.net  Tue Mar 28 00:41:28 2017
From: python at deborahswanson.net (Deborah Swanson)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 21:41:28 -0700
Subject: Using/compiling pyuno with Python 3.6
In-Reply-To: <CAL3mDbweogY8Dh6qikzrijdSPPW5e3nSHYhW-WkH-+rikgdarQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <013201d2a77d$90d5b180$27b23dae@sambora>

filtered wrote, on March 27, 2017 9:09 PM
> 
> Sorry but all your answers are pointless.
> 
> I clearly asked about compiling PyUno MYSELF with a 
> self-compiled Python 3.6.1 installation. Is this so hard to 
> understand? Why do you give unrelated comments to a clear 
> questions? Sometimes it is better to be quiet.
> 
> -aj

If you really only wanted to know how to compile PyUno with a
self-compiled Python 3.6.1 installation, it muddied the waters
considerably that you first went on at length about your difficulties
importing PyUno. It appeared that your main objective was to have an
importable installation of PyUno, and it would have been better to omit
the error details if all you wanted to know is how to compile it. Maybe
not as clear a question as you imagine.


> 2017-03-28 5:49 GMT+02:00 Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com>:
> 
> > On 03/27/2017 09:13 PM, Jim wrote:
> > > I don't know if this is of any help but I am running Mint 18 with 
> > > Python 3.5 and I have a package installed called 
> python3-uno which 
> > > is described as "Python-UNO bridge". Maybe CentOS has a similarly 
> > > name package.
> >
> > You're right. In fact it looks like LibreOffice 5.3 at least ships 
> > with Python 3.5 as part of the package, and comes with 
> pyuno as part 
> > of that. Try running the python binary from the LibreOffice install 
> > directory (on my machine that is 
> /opt/libreoffice5.3/program/python).  
> > I'm not sure how to work with pyuno outside of the 
> LO-shipped python.
> >
> > --
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Tue Mar 28 01:09:17 2017
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 08:09:17 +0300
Subject: Escaping confusion with Python 3 + MySQL
References: <728b7b7a-a927-4636-b780-f7365e37ae43@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18.1490537956.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <2cd2cc90-cba0-46ab-8893-dd12ecee6551@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkRMS73p0yE2Oof_NuLU6UCZzezs8Wsrs9vM5bMc=mqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1490539731.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <6f3d24ec-9add-4db5-abe5-dc0708129d44@googlegroups.com>
 <58d7e08c$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <d476675c-f89a-4dcf-bff4-725dbdf43564@googlegroups.com>
 <CAEfz+Tzh2sDsC_=nC7UgLMJVX=Zvwpa6OiUxy=MDubJuGVsgKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Vb2TEAWg_fbuqkypqapZ_7btRXoMs2O93FcsuuqwLz3DfSMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+Tw_eA+b9vqGwSNG4p+dTe+BhH=PYN8_k3LsGevf7uo8mQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.60.1490570841.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <5b045f7e-1c63-45ad-ad5e-5385f33e06e1@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmpMbKh2Chb+t9LLnbsEc_G6=L6yKvAE3SYMFVcU98bCTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.64.1490582570.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <22b18365-ca0e-46b9-9e51-f68ae201b36e@googlegroups.com>
 <ejto6tFga0fU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <lf57f3agf7m.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Gregory Ewing writes:

> ????? ?????? wrote:
>
>> Its still a mystery to em whay this fails syntactically when at the
>> same time INSERT works like that.
>
> I don't think *anyone* understands why SQL was designed with
> INSERT and UPDATE having completely different syntaxes.
> But it was, and we have to live with it.

A story I heard is that IBM had two competing teams working to design a
database system. One team understood programming languages. The other
team understood storage system layouts. The latter team won, and their
system grew up to be SQL.


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Mar 28 03:08:37 2017
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 09:08:37 +0200
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <obc3pe$tes$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <E76D609F-3D77-409E-9160-E5B6C51D1D0D@hyper-world.de>
Message-ID: <obd25g$nm0$1@blaine.gmane.org>

Jan Gosmann wrote:

> On 27 Mar 2017, at 18:30, Peter Otten wrote:
> 
>> Are you perchance comparing 32-bit Python 3.5 with 64-bit Python 3.6?
> 
> I don't think so.
> [sys.maxsize](https://docs.python.org/3/library/platform.html#cross-platform)
> indicates both to be 64-bit.

While my original idea was obviously nonsense given the amount of memory you 
deal with I still cling to the underlying idea.

Perhaps numpy's default integer type has changed (assuming you are using 
integer arrays, I did look at, but not into your code)?

You could compare

>>> numpy.array([42]).itemsize
8

for the two interpreters.



From jldunn2000 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 28 04:09:30 2017
From: jldunn2000 at gmail.com (loial)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 01:09:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: newbie question re classes and self
Message-ID: <7545c7c1-63cb-4e00-99a3-2fdad0f62896@googlegroups.com>

Can I pass self(or all its variables) to a class?

Basically, how do I make all the variables defined in self in the calling python script available to the python class I want to call?





From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Mar 28 04:43:15 2017
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 10:43:15 +0200
Subject: Logging from different python scripts to different output files
References: <CAEqJCe2Q2DmbYH3Uxk74dd3bFAcwXDQFcFZwNmxJ1TczJ-BYVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <obd7n3$m4r$1@blaine.gmane.org>

James McMahon wrote:

> I'm struggling with Python logging. Have tried to apply several examples I
> have found in the open source literature, but can't get it to work. What I
> need to do is this: I have two python scripts, a.py and b.py. Each is
> called by NiFi ExecuteScript processor repeatedly against many incoming
> flowfiles. In every case I need to output log messages to two distinct and
> different log files. My scripts run in the same Python interpreter, which
> as i understand it means they rely on the same root level logger. I have
> tried establishing non-root loggers for each, and associating distinct
> file handles for each to those loggers.
> 
> My output still appears in multiple log files, and appears to be repeating
> in increasing numbers each time I try a test run (first test, output line
> appeared in log once. second test, twice. third test, three times, etc).
> Is there an example that anyone knows of that demonstrates how two
> concurrently running python scripts within the same interpreter can direct
> output to two distinct log files? Thanks in advance for any help.

Here's a simple example:

$ cat logme.py 
import logging

a = logging.getLogger("a")
b = logging.getLogger("b")

def add_handler(logger, filename):
    if logger.hasHandlers():
        print("add_handler() called twice for logger 
{!r}".format(logger.name))
        return
    formatter = logging.Formatter(logging.BASIC_FORMAT)
    handler = logging.FileHandler(filename)
    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
    logger.addHandler(handler)

add_handler(a, "logs/a.log")
add_handler(b, "logs/b.log")

a.warn("foo")
b.warn("bar")

The 'if logger.hasHandlers(): ...' check is for debugging purposes, in your 
actual code a.py would only contain

import logging
a = logging.getLogger("a")
a.warn("whatever")

The corresponding setup code

import logging
a = logging.getLogger("a")
add_handler(a, "logs/a.log")

should only run once.





From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Mar 28 05:09:18 2017
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 11:09:18 +0200
Subject: newbie question re classes and self
References: <7545c7c1-63cb-4e00-99a3-2fdad0f62896@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <obd97s$6op$1@blaine.gmane.org>

loial wrote:

> Can I pass self(or all its variables) to a class?
> 
> Basically, how do I make all the variables defined in self in the calling
> python script available to the python class I want to call?

Inside a method you can access attributes of an instance as self.whatever:

>>> class A:
...     def foo(self):
...         self.bar = 42
...     def baz(self):
...         print(self.bar)
... 
>>> a = A()
>>> a.baz() # bar attribute not yet set
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "<stdin>", line 5, in baz
AttributeError: 'A' object has no attribute 'bar'
>>> a.foo() # sets bar
>>> a.baz() # successfully print the newly created bar attribute
42

The class itself has no access to bar. In the rare case where you want to 
share data between instances you can use a class attribute:

>>> class B:
...     bar = 42
... 
>>> x = B()
>>> y = B()
>>> x.bar
42
>>> y.bar
42

If neither is what you want please give a concrete example or a more 
detailed plain-english description.



From jobmattcon at gmail.com  Tue Mar 28 05:37:35 2017
From: jobmattcon at gmail.com (Ho Yeung Lee)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 02:37:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to group own any one common in the list?
Message-ID: <3bf09079-574d-4582-b93e-4338804a2043@googlegroups.com>

aaa = ["a","ab","c","b","bc"]

def similar(aa):
    similarset = []
    for ii in range(0,len(aa)):
        for jj in range(ii,len(aa)):
            if ii <> jj:
                print("("+str(ii)+","+str(jj)+")")
                if (aa[ii] in aa[jj]) or (aa[jj] in aa[ii]):
                    print(aa[ii] + " is similar with " + aa[jj])
                    similarset.append([aa[ii],aa[jj]])
    return similarset


print similar(aaa)


do not know how to edit following code to group own any one common in the list?

import itertools
bb = similar(aaa)
from operator import itemgetter
[list(g) for _,g in itertools.groupby(sorted(bb),(itemgetter(0,1) and itemgetter(1,0)))]

Expected result:

group 1 [['a', 'ab'], [['ab', 'b']]
group 2 [['b', 'bc'], [['c', 'bc']]






From songofacandy at gmail.com  Tue Mar 28 06:11:24 2017
From: songofacandy at gmail.com (INADA Naoki)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 19:11:24 +0900
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <EEF50688-64BD-42C1-8B13-612F182C5D7C@hyper-world.de>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <EEF50688-64BD-42C1-8B13-612F182C5D7C@hyper-world.de>
Message-ID: <CAEfz+TyLt-1_2k-nneEtawiPgua-=1MZ5iR0XUoxCJcwx3RBRQ@mail.gmail.com>

I can't reproduce it.

I managed to install pyopencl and run the script.  It takes more than
2 hours, and uses only 7GB RAM.
Maybe, some faster backend for OpenCL is required?

I used Microsoft Azure Compute, Standard_A4m_v2 (4 cores, 32 GB
memory) instance.

More easy way to reproduce is needed...

> My best idea about what's going on at the moment is that memory
> fragmentation is worse in Python 3.6 for some reason. The virtual memory
> size indicates that a large address space is acquired, but the resident
> memory size is smaller indicating that not all of that address space is
> actually used. In fact, the code might be especially bad to fragmentation
> because it takes a lot of small NumPy arrays and concatenates them into
> larger arrays. But I'm still surprised that this is only a problem with
> Python 3.6 (if this hypothesis is correct).
>
> Jan

Generally speaking, VMM vs RSS doesn't mean fragmentation.
If RSS : total allocated memory ratio is bigger than 1.5, it may be
fragmentation.
And large VMM won't cause swap.  Only RSS is meaningful.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Mar 28 09:44:57 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 09:44:57 -0400
Subject: newbie question re classes and self
In-Reply-To: <7545c7c1-63cb-4e00-99a3-2fdad0f62896@googlegroups.com>
References: <7545c7c1-63cb-4e00-99a3-2fdad0f62896@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <obdpcj$5bg$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 3/28/2017 4:09 AM, loial wrote:
> Can I pass self(or all its variables) to a class?

In Python, every argument to every function is an instance of some 
class.  The function can access any attribute of the arguments it 
receives with arg.attribute.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From jan at hyper-world.de  Tue Mar 28 11:07:53 2017
From: jan at hyper-world.de (Jan Gosmann)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 11:07:53 -0400
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <obd25g$nm0$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <obc3pe$tes$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <E76D609F-3D77-409E-9160-E5B6C51D1D0D@hyper-world.de>
 <obd25g$nm0$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <646D4953-5C29-4BAA-A192-1214E0D8A037@hyper-world.de>

On 28 Mar 2017, at 3:08, Peter Otten wrote:

> Perhaps numpy's default integer type has changed (assuming you are using
> integer arrays, I did look at, but not into your code)?
>
> You could compare
>
>>>> numpy.array([42]).itemsize
> 8
>
> for the two interpreters.

Both report 8 for integer and float point arrays.


From jan at hyper-world.de  Tue Mar 28 11:29:17 2017
From: jan at hyper-world.de (Jan Gosmann)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 11:29:17 -0400
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <CAEfz+TyLt-1_2k-nneEtawiPgua-=1MZ5iR0XUoxCJcwx3RBRQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <EEF50688-64BD-42C1-8B13-612F182C5D7C@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TyLt-1_2k-nneEtawiPgua-=1MZ5iR0XUoxCJcwx3RBRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <83C9F43F-1716-4956-AB08-742B300186A8@hyper-world.de>

On 28 Mar 2017, at 6:11, INADA Naoki wrote:

> I managed to install pyopencl and run the script.  It takes more than
> 2 hours, and uses only 7GB RAM.
> Maybe, some faster backend for OpenCL is required?
>
> I used Microsoft Azure Compute, Standard_A4m_v2 (4 cores, 32 GB
> memory) instance.

I suppose that the computing power of the Azure instance might not be 
sufficient and it takes much longer to get to the phase where the memory 
requirements increase? Have you access to the output that was produced?

By the way, this has nothing to do with OpenCL. OpenCL isn't used by the 
log_reduction.py script at all. It is listed in the dependencies because 
some other things use it.

> More easy way to reproduce is needed...

Yes, I agree, but it's not super easy (all the smaller existing examples 
don't exhibit the problem so far), but I'll see what I can do.

>> My best idea about what's going on at the moment is that memory
>> fragmentation is worse in Python 3.6 for some reason. The virtual 
>> memory
>> size indicates that a large address space is acquired, but the 
>> resident
>> memory size is smaller indicating that not all of that address space 
>> is
>> actually used. In fact, the code might be especially bad to 
>> fragmentation
>> because it takes a lot of small NumPy arrays and concatenates them 
>> into
>> larger arrays. But I'm still surprised that this is only a problem 
>> with
>> Python 3.6 (if this hypothesis is correct).
>>
>> Jan
>
> Generally speaking, VMM vs RSS doesn't mean fragmentation.
> If RSS : total allocated memory ratio is bigger than 1.5, it may be
> fragmentation.
> And large VMM won't cause swap.  Only RSS is meaningful.

I suppose you are right that from the VMM and RSS numbers one cannot 
deduce fragmentation. But I think RSS in this case might not be 
meaningful either. My understanding from [the Wikipedia description] is 
that it doesn't account for parts of the memory that have been written 
to the swap. Or in other words RSS will never exceed the size of the 
physical RAM. VSS is also only partially useful because it just gives 
the size of the address space of which not all might be used?

Anyways, I'm getting a swap usage of about 30GB with Python 3.6 and 
zsh's time reports 2339977 page faults from disk vs. 107 for Python 3.5.

I have some code to measure the unique set size (USS) and will see what 
numbers I get with that.

Jan


From vishnuprasadh at gmail.com  Tue Mar 28 11:59:07 2017
From: vishnuprasadh at gmail.com (vishnuprasadh at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 08:59:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: AH01215: ImportError: No module named PIL: - python script unable to
 recognize PIL when running from apache2 config
Message-ID: <4d8860d7-7810-4e76-8829-70c958a9013c@googlegroups.com>

What did you do?

I have configured in apache httpd.conf - enabling of mod_cgi.so and httpd-vhosts.conf.

In httpd-vhosts have following conifguration. Basically am trying to capture all /images/ pattern, read have that process using a index.py script and return back as image/jpeg content.

<VirtualHost *:80>
ServerAdmin abc.xyz at bbc.com
ServerName www.groc-example.com
ServerAlias groc-example.com
Alias "/images/" "/var/www/images/"
DirectoryIndex index.py
ErrorLog "/private/var/log/apache2/groc-example-images-error_log"
CustomLog "/private/var/log/apache2/groc-access-log" common
<Directory "/var/www/images/">
Options +ExecCGI
Allow from all
Require all granted
ForceType text/html
AddHandler cgi-script .py

In the index.py am just trying to start the script by trying to import the image. It doenst work i.e. recognize at all. The same import of PIL works from python2/python3 interface in spyder or pycharm or commandlines.

If I remove PIL import statement, the html works or prints out to browser.

#! /usr/bin/env python
from PIL import Image

print ""
print "hello world"
print "--"
print ""

What did you expect to happen?

python script to recognize PIL but it doesnt recognize. I have uninstalled PIL-SIMD multiple times and reinstalled but it isnt working.
Though I have both python2 and python3, default am using python2 and so is apache CGI interface.

What actually happened?

I capture following error in apache logs.
AH01215: from PIL import Image: /var/www/images/index.py
AH01215: ImportError: No module named PIL: /var/www/images/index.py

What versions of Pillow and Python are you using?

Python 2.7.12
Pillow-SIMD
Pillow-SIMD (4.0.0.post0)

Please help if this wont resolve, I have to completely move away from python.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Mar 28 12:05:04 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 03:05:04 +1100
Subject: AH01215: ImportError: No module named PIL: - python script unable
 to recognize PIL when running from apache2 config
In-Reply-To: <4d8860d7-7810-4e76-8829-70c958a9013c@googlegroups.com>
References: <4d8860d7-7810-4e76-8829-70c958a9013c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrqh-aH2NDKdcomNAcogh1TypS1KKj9QGPZsE26e4bgtg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 2:59 AM,  <vishnuprasadh at gmail.com> wrote:
> Please help if this wont resolve, I have to completely move away from python.

How about, instead, moving away from CGI? Switch to Apache's
modpython. I've deployed several Python-based web sites without
difficulties.

ChrisA


From jf_byrnes at comcast.net  Tue Mar 28 12:28:26 2017
From: jf_byrnes at comcast.net (Jim)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 11:28:26 -0500
Subject: Using/compiling pyuno with Python 3.6
In-Reply-To: <013201d2a77d$90d5b180$27b23dae@sambora>
References: <CAL3mDbweogY8Dh6qikzrijdSPPW5e3nSHYhW-WkH-+rikgdarQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <013201d2a77d$90d5b180$27b23dae@sambora>
Message-ID: <obe2v4$dgf$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 03/27/2017 11:41 PM, Deborah Swanson wrote:
> filtered wrote, on March 27, 2017 9:09 PM
>>
>> Sorry but all your answers are pointless.
>>
>> I clearly asked about compiling PyUno MYSELF with a
>> self-compiled Python 3.6.1 installation. Is this so hard to
>> understand? Why do you give unrelated comments to a clear
>> questions? Sometimes it is better to be quiet.
>>
>> -aj
>
> If you really only wanted to know how to compile PyUno with a
> self-compiled Python 3.6.1 installation, it muddied the waters
> considerably that you first went on at length about your difficulties
> importing PyUno. It appeared that your main objective was to have an
> importable installation of PyUno, and it would have been better to omit
> the error details if all you wanted to know is how to compile it. Maybe
> not as clear a question as you imagine.
>

Exactly. I'm sorry I misunderstood the question. I also thought the goal 
was to have a working installation of Python 3.6.1 and Pyuno.

Regards, Jim

>
>> 2017-03-28 5:49 GMT+02:00 Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> On 03/27/2017 09:13 PM, Jim wrote:
>>>> I don't know if this is of any help but I am running Mint 18 with
>>>> Python 3.5 and I have a package installed called
>> python3-uno which
>>>> is described as "Python-UNO bridge". Maybe CentOS has a similarly
>>>> name package.
>>>
>>> You're right. In fact it looks like LibreOffice 5.3 at least ships
>>> with Python 3.5 as part of the package, and comes with
>> pyuno as part
>>> of that. Try running the python binary from the LibreOffice install
>>> directory (on my machine that is
>> /opt/libreoffice5.3/program/python).
>>> I'm not sure how to work with pyuno outside of the
>> LO-shipped python.
>>>
>>> --
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>
>> --
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>




From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Mar 28 12:35:45 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 03:35:45 +1100
Subject: AH01215: ImportError: No module named PIL: - python script unable
 to recognize PIL when running from apache2 config
In-Reply-To: <621733ca-41f0-89f9-a914-d00857f86875@gmail.com>
References: <4d8860d7-7810-4e76-8829-70c958a9013c@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmrqh-aH2NDKdcomNAcogh1TypS1KKj9QGPZsE26e4bgtg@mail.gmail.com>
 <621733ca-41f0-89f9-a914-d00857f86875@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqHqn+r7o0wusGDiNOtTkTV4fS7kEQmx8XNN7b5SFEBvQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 3:32 AM, Karim <kliateni at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 28/03/2017 18:05, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 2:59 AM,  <vishnuprasadh at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Please help if this wont resolve, I have to completely move away from
>>> python.
>>
>> How about, instead, moving away from CGI? Switch to Apache's
>> modpython. I've deployed several Python-based web sites without
>> difficulties.
>>
>> ChrisA
>
>
> Ah ok. What do you think of Django?

(Bouncing back to the list because I think the private message was
unintentional. Apologies if I'm misreading your intentions.)

Not hugely experienced with Django; I mainly use Flask. But they're
fairly similar in style and structure. Either way, you make yourself
an importable package/module that has all your code in it, and then
you set up WSGI so that Apache can call on you.

ChrisA


From kliateni at gmail.com  Tue Mar 28 12:44:21 2017
From: kliateni at gmail.com (Karim)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 18:44:21 +0200
Subject: AH01215: ImportError: No module named PIL: - python script unable
 to recognize PIL when running from apache2 config
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqHqn+r7o0wusGDiNOtTkTV4fS7kEQmx8XNN7b5SFEBvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4d8860d7-7810-4e76-8829-70c958a9013c@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmrqh-aH2NDKdcomNAcogh1TypS1KKj9QGPZsE26e4bgtg@mail.gmail.com>
 <621733ca-41f0-89f9-a914-d00857f86875@gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqHqn+r7o0wusGDiNOtTkTV4fS7kEQmx8XNN7b5SFEBvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82a11abc-bfb1-6be8-dc38-fc3537e78a81@gmail.com>



On 28/03/2017 18:35, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 3:32 AM, Karim <kliateni at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 28/03/2017 18:05, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 2:59 AM,  <vishnuprasadh at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Please help if this wont resolve, I have to completely move away from
>>>> python.
>>> How about, instead, moving away from CGI? Switch to Apache's
>>> modpython. I've deployed several Python-based web sites without
>>> difficulties.
>>>
>>> ChrisA
>>
>> Ah ok. What do you think of Django?
> (Bouncing back to the list because I think the private message was
> unintentional. Apologies if I'm misreading your intentions.)
>
> Not hugely experienced with Django; I mainly use Flask. But they're
> fairly similar in style and structure. Either way, you make yourself
> an importable package/module that has all your code in it, and then
> you set up WSGI so that Apache can call on you.
>
> ChrisA
Thank you Chris!


From israel at ravnalaska.net  Tue Mar 28 13:25:33 2017
From: israel at ravnalaska.net (Israel Brewster)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 09:25:33 -0800
Subject: Proper way to run CherryPy app as a daemon?
Message-ID: <D551A466-E69E-4416-B326-6DE10E237F5D@ravnalaska.net>

I am wanting to run a CherryPy app as a daemon on CentOS 6 using an init.d script. By subscribing to the "Daemonizer" and PIDFile cherrypy plugins, I have been able to write an init.d script that starts and stops my CherryPy application. There's only one problem: it would appear that the program daemonizes, thus allowing the init.d script to return a good start, as soon as I call cherrypy.engine.start(), but *before* the cherrypy app has actually started. Particularly, this occurs before cherrypy has bound to the desired port. The end result is that running "service <myapp> start" returns OK, indicating that the app is now running, even when it cannot bind to the port, thus preventing it from actually starting. This is turn causes issues with my clustering software which thinks it started just fine, when in fact it never *really* started.

As such, is there a way to delay the demonization until I call cherrypy.engine.block()? Or some other way to prevent the init.d script from indicating a successful start until the process has actually bound to the needed port and fully started? What is the proper way of doing this? 

Thanks! 
-----------------------------------------------
Israel Brewster
Systems Analyst II
Ravn Alaska
5245 Airport Industrial Rd
Fairbanks, AK 99709
(907) 450-7293
-----------------------------------------------






From songofacandy at gmail.com  Tue Mar 28 14:21:13 2017
From: songofacandy at gmail.com (INADA Naoki)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 03:21:13 +0900
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <83C9F43F-1716-4956-AB08-742B300186A8@hyper-world.de>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <EEF50688-64BD-42C1-8B13-612F182C5D7C@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TyLt-1_2k-nneEtawiPgua-=1MZ5iR0XUoxCJcwx3RBRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <83C9F43F-1716-4956-AB08-742B300186A8@hyper-world.de>
Message-ID: <CAEfz+Tw8_6Qs3xfwyu-Xt2tAh7yTH-EYiTrgCpYWr7qaNWXmxw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 12:29 AM, Jan Gosmann <jan at hyper-world.de> wrote:
> On 28 Mar 2017, at 6:11, INADA Naoki wrote:
>
>> I managed to install pyopencl and run the script.  It takes more than
>> 2 hours, and uses only 7GB RAM.
>> Maybe, some faster backend for OpenCL is required?
>>
>> I used Microsoft Azure Compute, Standard_A4m_v2 (4 cores, 32 GB
>> memory) instance.
>
>
> I suppose that the computing power of the Azure instance might not be
> sufficient and it takes much longer to get to the phase where the memory
> requirements increase? Have you access to the output that was produced?
>

I suppose smaller and faster benchmark is better to others looking for it.
I already stopped the azure instance.

> By the way, this has nothing to do with OpenCL. OpenCL isn't used by the
> log_reduction.py script at all. It is listed in the dependencies because
> some other things use it.

Oh, it took my time much to run the benchmark...
All difficult dependencies are required to run the benchmark.

>
>> More easy way to reproduce is needed...
>
>
> Yes, I agree, but it's not super easy (all the smaller existing examples
> don't exhibit the problem so far), but I'll see what I can do.
>

There are no need to make swapping.  Looking difference of normal RAM
usage is enough.
There are no maxrss difference in "smaller existing examples"?

>
> I suppose you are right that from the VMM and RSS numbers one cannot deduce
> fragmentation. But I think RSS in this case might not be meaningful either.
> My understanding from [the Wikipedia description] is that it doesn't account
> for parts of the memory that have been written to the swap. Or in other
> words RSS will never exceed the size of the physical RAM. VSS is also only
> partially useful because it just gives the size of the address space of
> which not all might be used?

I just meant "VSS is not evidence of fragmentation.  Don't suppose
fragmentation cause the problem.".


>
> Anyways, I'm getting a swap usage of about 30GB with Python 3.6 and zsh's
> time reports 2339977 page faults from disk vs. 107 for Python 3.5.
>
> I have some code to measure the unique set size (USS) and will see what
> numbers I get with that.
>
> Jan

I want to investigate RAM usage, without any swapping.


Regards,


From fpm at u.washington.edu  Tue Mar 28 14:51:04 2017
From: fpm at u.washington.edu (Frank Miles)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 18:51:04 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Multiprocessing queue in py2.7
Message-ID: <obeban$ktd$1@dont-email.me>

I tried running a bit of example code from the py2.7 docs
  (16.6.1.2. Exchanging objects between processes)
only to have it fail.  The code is simply:
# ------------  
from multiprocessing import Process, Queue

def f(q):
    q.put([42, None, 'hello'])

if __name__ == '__main__':
    q = Queue()
    p = Process(target=f, args=(q,))
    p.start()
    print q.get()    # prints "[42, None, 'hello']"
    p.join()
# ---------------
But what happens is f() fails:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/multiprocessing/process.py", line 258, in _bootstrap
    self.run()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/multiprocessing/process.py", line 114, in run
    self._target(*self._args, **self._kwargs)
  File "x.py", line 4, in f
    q.put([42, None, "Hello"])
AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'put'

This is on a Debian jessie host, though eventually it needs to
run on a raspberry pi 3 {and uses other library code that needs
py2.7}.

Thanks in advance for those marvelous clues!

   -F


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Mar 28 15:10:08 2017
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 20:10:08 +0100
Subject: Multiprocessing queue in py2.7
In-Reply-To: <obeban$ktd$1@dont-email.me>
References: <obeban$ktd$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <5b219409-a34e-d2fd-c300-58e873903070@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2017-03-28 19:51, Frank Miles wrote:
> I tried running a bit of example code from the py2.7 docs
>   (16.6.1.2. Exchanging objects between processes)
> only to have it fail.  The code is simply:
> # ------------
> from multiprocessing import Process, Queue
>
> def f(q):
>     q.put([42, None, 'hello'])
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     q = Queue()
>     p = Process(target=f, args=(q,))
>     p.start()
>     print q.get()    # prints "[42, None, 'hello']"
>     p.join()
> # ---------------
> But what happens is f() fails:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/multiprocessing/process.py", line 258, in _bootstrap
>     self.run()
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/multiprocessing/process.py", line 114, in run
>     self._target(*self._args, **self._kwargs)
>   File "x.py", line 4, in f
>     q.put([42, None, "Hello"])
> AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'put'
>
> This is on a Debian jessie host, though eventually it needs to
> run on a raspberry pi 3 {and uses other library code that needs
> py2.7}.
>
> Thanks in advance for those marvelous clues!
>
Insert a print to see what's being passed to f:

def f(q):
     print 'Argument is', q
     q.put([42, None, 'hello'])

Is it an int?

If it is, have another look at where the process is created and what is 
being passed. Print that out too.



From zljubisic at gmail.com  Tue Mar 28 15:36:29 2017
From: zljubisic at gmail.com (zljubisic at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 12:36:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pandas creating a new column based on row values
Message-ID: <471f8d92-664e-4667-a0b5-bbeea22878d0@googlegroups.com>

This doesn't work:

import pandas as pd

def myfunc():
    return 'Start_{}_{}_{}_{}_End'.format(df['coverage'], df['name'], df['reports'], df['year'])


data = {'name': ['Jason', 'Molly', 'Tina', 'Jake', 'Amy'],
        'year': [2012, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2014],
        'reports': [4, 24, 31, 2, 3],
        'coverage': [25, 94, 57, 62, 70]}
df = pd.DataFrame(data, index = ['Cochice', 'Pima', 'Santa Cruz', 'Maricopa', 'Yuma'])

print(df)

df['New'] = df.apply(myfunc(), axis=1)

TypeError: ("'str' object is not callable", 'occurred at index Cochice')

Can I somehow generate a new column by concatenating values for the other columns in a row?

Expected result for column 'New' would be:
Start_Jason_2012_4_25_End
Start_Molly_2012_24_94_End
Start_Tina_2013_31_57_End
Start_Jake_2014_2_62_End


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Mar 28 15:38:38 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 15:38:38 -0400
Subject: Multiprocessing queue in py2.7
In-Reply-To: <obeban$ktd$1@dont-email.me>
References: <obeban$ktd$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <obee3o$7jj$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 3/28/2017 2:51 PM, Frank Miles wrote:
> I tried running a bit of example code from the py2.7 docs
>   (16.6.1.2. Exchanging objects between processes)
> only to have it fail.  The code is simply:
> # ------------
> from multiprocessing import Process, Queue
>
> def f(q):
>     q.put([42, None, 'hello'])
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     q = Queue()
>     p = Process(target=f, args=(q,))
>     p.start()
>     print q.get()    # prints "[42, None, 'hello']"
>     p.join()
> # ---------------

Cut and pasted, this runs as specified on 2.7.13 on Win 10

> But what happens is f() fails:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/multiprocessing/process.py", line 258, in _bootstrap
>     self.run()
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/multiprocessing/process.py", line 114, in run
>     self._target(*self._args, **self._kwargs)
>   File "x.py", line 4, in f
>     q.put([42, None, "Hello"])
> AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'put'

This says that the arg bound to q in f is an int rather than a Queue. 
Are you sure that you posted the code that you ran?

> This is on a Debian jessie host, though eventually it needs to
> run on a raspberry pi 3 {and uses other library code that needs
> py2.7}.
>
> Thanks in advance for those marvelous clues!




-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From codewizard at gmail.com  Tue Mar 28 15:43:23 2017
From: codewizard at gmail.com (codewizard at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 12:43:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pandas creating a new column based on row values
In-Reply-To: <471f8d92-664e-4667-a0b5-bbeea22878d0@googlegroups.com>
References: <471f8d92-664e-4667-a0b5-bbeea22878d0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c6ef43c1-80f4-401a-8cd3-5c9bf393990d@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 at 3:36:57 PM UTC-4, zlju... at gmail.com wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> Can I somehow generate a new column by concatenating values for the other columns in a row?
> 

Try this (not tested):

def myfunc(row):
    return 'Start_{}_{}_{}_{}_End'.format(row['coverage'], row['name'], row['reports'], row['year']) 

df['New'] = df.apply(myfunc, axis=1)


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Mar 28 15:47:37 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 15:47:37 -0400
Subject: AH01215: ImportError: No module named PIL: - python script unable
 to recognize PIL when running from apache2 config
In-Reply-To: <4d8860d7-7810-4e76-8829-70c958a9013c@googlegroups.com>
References: <4d8860d7-7810-4e76-8829-70c958a9013c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <obeekj$aoh$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 3/28/2017 11:59 AM, vishnuprasadh at gmail.com wrote:

> I capture following error in apache logs.
> AH01215: from PIL import Image: /var/www/images/index.py
> AH01215: ImportError: No module named PIL: /var/www/images/index.py

A general response to this particular message is
a) check spelling in code matches actual filename
b) check search path "import sys; print(sys.path)"
and then see if the path contains the directory actually containing the 
module

For this specific case, follow Chris's advice.


-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From fpm at u.washington.edu  Tue Mar 28 16:16:48 2017
From: fpm at u.washington.edu (Frank Miles)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 20:16:48 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Multiprocessing queue in py2.7
References: <obeban$ktd$1@dont-email.me> <obee3o$7jj$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <mailman.114.1490729928.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <obegbf$7sv$1@dont-email.me>

On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 15:38:38 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:

> On 3/28/2017 2:51 PM, Frank Miles wrote:
>> I tried running a bit of example code from the py2.7 docs
>>   (16.6.1.2. Exchanging objects between processes)
>> only to have it fail.  The code is simply:
>> # ------------
>> from multiprocessing import Process, Queue
>>
>> def f(q):
>>     q.put([42, None, 'hello'])
>>
>> if __name__ == '__main__':
>>     q = Queue()
>>     p = Process(target=f, args=(q,))
>>     p.start()
>>     print q.get()    # prints "[42, None, 'hello']"
>>     p.join()
>> # ---------------
> 
> Cut and pasted, this runs as specified on 2.7.13 on Win 10
> 
>> But what happens is f() fails:
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/multiprocessing/process.py", line 258, in _bootstrap
>>     self.run()
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/multiprocessing/process.py", line 114, in run
>>     self._target(*self._args, **self._kwargs)
>>   File "x.py", line 4, in f
>>     q.put([42, None, "Hello"])
>> AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'put'
> 
> This says that the arg bound to q in f is an int rather than a Queue. 
> Are you sure that you posted the code that you ran?
> 
>> This is on a Debian jessie host, though eventually it needs to
>> run on a raspberry pi 3 {and uses other library code that needs
>> py2.7}.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for those marvelous clues!

Argghh!  I missed one stupid typo.  Somehow had a '1' instead of the 'q' in the Process(..)
line.

My bad.  Sorry for the noise, and thanks!!
	-F


From zljubisic at gmail.com  Tue Mar 28 16:52:00 2017
From: zljubisic at gmail.com (zljubisic at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 13:52:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pandas creating a new column based on row values
In-Reply-To: <c6ef43c1-80f4-401a-8cd3-5c9bf393990d@googlegroups.com>
References: <471f8d92-664e-4667-a0b5-bbeea22878d0@googlegroups.com>
 <c6ef43c1-80f4-401a-8cd3-5c9bf393990d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e941938f-d87b-4763-ad65-18f30cc52486@googlegroups.com>

It works. Thank you very much. :)


From zljubisic at gmail.com  Tue Mar 28 17:00:45 2017
From: zljubisic at gmail.com (zljubisic at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 14:00:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pandas dataframe, find duplicates and add suffix
Message-ID: <5c15090c-34c1-4ded-a550-5207fae53a98@googlegroups.com>

In dataframe

import pandas as pd

data = {'model': ['first', 'first', 'second', 'second', 'second', 'third', 'third'],
        'dtime': ['2017-01-01_112233', '2017-01-01_112234', '2017-01-01_112234', '2017-01-01_112234', '2017-01-01_112234', '2017-01-01_112235', '2017-01-01_112235'],
        }
df = pd.DataFrame(data, index = ['a.jpg', 'b.jpg', 'c.jpg', 'd.jpg', 'e.jpg', 'f.jpg', 'g.jpg'], columns=['model', 'dtime'])

print(df.head(10))

        model              dtime
a.jpg   first  2017-01-01_112233
b.jpg   first  2017-01-01_112234
c.jpg  second  2017-01-01_112234
d.jpg  second  2017-01-01_112234
e.jpg  second  2017-01-01_112234
f.jpg   third  2017-01-01_112235
g.jpg   third  2017-01-01_112235

within model, there are duplicate dtime values.
For example, rows d and e are duplicates of the c row.
Row g is duplicate of the f row.

For each duplicate (within model) I would like to add suffix (starting from 1) to the dtime value. Something like this:

        model              dtime
a.jpg   first  2017-01-01_112233
b.jpg   first  2017-01-01_112234
c.jpg  second  2017-01-01_112234
d.jpg  second  2017-01-01_112234-1
e.jpg  second  2017-01-01_112234-2
f.jpg   third  2017-01-01_112235
g.jpg   third  2017-01-01_112235-1

How to do that?


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Mar 29 02:58:49 2017
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 08:58:49 +0200
Subject: Logging from different python scripts to different output files
References: <CAEqJCe2Q2DmbYH3Uxk74dd3bFAcwXDQFcFZwNmxJ1TczJ-BYVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <obflv4$bhk$1@blaine.gmane.org>

James McMahon wrote:

[Please keep the discussion on the list]

> Thank you Peter. Is it necessary to employ a close() on the handlers and a
> shutdown() on the loggers themselves? -Jim

Not unless you run into problems with the default mechanism -- 
logging.shutdown() is scheduled via atexit.register() and invoked when the 
application terminates normally.



From arpitamishrarkm at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 04:23:32 2017
From: arpitamishrarkm at gmail.com (arpitamishrarkm at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 01:23:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: K&L graph partitioning code offer
In-Reply-To: <7bftca$lai@abc.ksu.ksu.edu>#1/1>
References: <7bftca$lai@abc.ksu.ksu.edu>#1/1>
Message-ID: <844b8ab9-19bf-40b6-9173-3dec67b6ea64@googlegroups.com>

Hi
I am planning to tweak the Kernighan Lin algorithm a bit use coercing of certain vertices .I was wondering if u would be kind enough to share the  python code with me so that i can include my idea in it.


From arpitamishrarkm at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 04:29:13 2017
From: arpitamishrarkm at gmail.com (arpitamishrarkm at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 01:29:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: K&L graph partitioning code offer
In-Reply-To: <7bftca$lai@abc.ksu.ksu.edu>#1/1>
References: <7bftca$lai@abc.ksu.ksu.edu>#1/1>
Message-ID: <673735b2-659e-4edc-b866-f989541415a5@googlegroups.com>

Hi
I am planning to tweak the Kernighan Lin algorithm a bit use coercing of certain vertices .I was wondering if u would be kind enough to share the  python code with me so that i can include my idea in it.


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Wed Mar 29 05:45:38 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 20:45:38 +1100
Subject: K&L graph partitioning code offer
References: <7bftca$lai@abc.ksu.ksu.edu>#1/1>
 <673735b2-659e-4edc-b866-f989541415a5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <58db8243$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 07:29 pm, arpitamishrarkm at gmail.com wrote:

> Hi
> I am planning to tweak the Kernighan Lin algorithm a bit use coercing of
> certain vertices .I was wondering if u would be kind enough to share the 
> python code with me so that i can include my idea in it.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Kernighan+Lin+algorithm+python

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=python+Kernighan+Lin+algorithm




-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From skip.montanaro at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 12:04:45 2017
From: skip.montanaro at gmail.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 11:04:45 -0500
Subject: logging.LogRecord asctime aattribute - easily override somehow?
Message-ID: <CANc-5Uz98AsPNdkj+t+sePoruNw6B+pdedjTEVGv3w3-cXdjtA@mail.gmail.com>

Short of going into some Formatter creation exercise (which seems like
overkill to me, and somewhat obscure), is there some way to easily
change the format of the logging.LogRecord's asctime attribute?

Thx,

Skip


From lyngwyst at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 12:06:00 2017
From: lyngwyst at gmail.com (lyngwyst at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 09:06:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
Message-ID: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>

I wrote a Python script, which executed as intended on Linux and from cmd.exe on Windows.  Then, I ran it from the PowerShell command line, all print statements added ^@ after every character.

Have you seen this?  Do you know how to prevent this?

Thank you,
Jay


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Wed Mar 29 12:39:19 2017
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 19:39:19 +0300
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <lf5tw6chwaw.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

lyngwyst at gmail.com writes:

> I wrote a Python script, which executed as intended on Linux and from
> cmd.exe on Windows.  Then, I ran it from the PowerShell command line,
> all print statements added ^@ after every character.
>
> Have you seen this?  Do you know how to prevent this?

Script is printing UTF-16 or something, viewer is expecting ASCII or
some eight bit code and making null bytes visible as ^@.

Python gets some default encoding from its environment. There are ways
to set the default, and ways to override the default in the script. For
example, you can specify an encoding when you open a file.


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Mar 29 12:39:59 2017
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 18:39:59 +0200
Subject: logging.LogRecord asctime aattribute - easily override somehow?
References: <CANc-5Uz98AsPNdkj+t+sePoruNw6B+pdedjTEVGv3w3-cXdjtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <obgo0p$m9o$1@blaine.gmane.org>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

> Short of going into some Formatter creation exercise (which seems like
> overkill to me, and somewhat obscure), is there some way to easily
> change the format of the logging.LogRecord's asctime attribute?
> 
> Thx,
> 
> Skip

Like

>>> import logging
>>> logging.basicConfig(format="%(asctime)s" + logging.BASIC_FORMAT, 
datefmt="***%A***")
>>> logging.warn("foo")
***Wednesday***WARNING:root:foo

?



From skip.montanaro at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 13:07:35 2017
From: skip.montanaro at gmail.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 12:07:35 -0500
Subject: logging.LogRecord asctime aattribute - easily override somehow?
In-Reply-To: <obgo0p$m9o$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <CANc-5Uz98AsPNdkj+t+sePoruNw6B+pdedjTEVGv3w3-cXdjtA@mail.gmail.com>
 <obgo0p$m9o$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CANc-5Uwa4KdveFOeHo5_PcnTdep=e3LMSWOMcUASO1ZKv+1f=Q@mail.gmail.com>

>>> import logging
>>> logging.basicConfig(format="%(asctime)s" + logging.BASIC_FORMAT, datefmt="***%A***")
>>> logging.warn("foo")
 ***Wednesday***WARNING:root:foo

Thanks, Peter. I suppose a bit more detail of my environment would
have helped. I'm actually using the logging package indirectly via
Flask. After a quick skim of Flask's code, it didn't look like the
Flask author considered that users might want to do their own thing
with logging. I think I could override the Flask.logger property and
chuck in something like your code. I'll just suffer for the time being
with my "two word" timestamps. Whoever thought you'd want to break up
timestamps into two words by default, and hard-code a comma as the
separator between seconds and milliseconds?

Just for the record, for my own standalone code I never use the
logging module. I just have a simple Logger class which does all I
need. The logging module (and log4j) have always seemed to me to be an
overly general solution in search of a problem.

Skip


From jladasky at itu.edu  Wed Mar 29 13:17:57 2017
From: jladasky at itu.edu (jladasky at itu.edu)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 10:17:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: K&L graph partitioning code offer
In-Reply-To: <844b8ab9-19bf-40b6-9173-3dec67b6ea64@googlegroups.com>
References: <7bftca$lai@abc.ksu.ksu.edu>#1/1>
 <844b8ab9-19bf-40b6-9173-3dec67b6ea64@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <abd14283-6b69-43c9-b8c5-e4790db6848e@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 1:23:48 AM UTC-7, arpitam... at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi
> I am planning to tweak the Kernighan Lin algorithm a bit use coercing of certain vertices .I was wondering if u would be kind enough to share the  python code with me so that i can include my idea in it.

Good luck getting the code you want from Dean Hall, his post is from 1999!

(Is 18 years a record for thread necromancy?)


From eryksun at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 13:22:45 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 17:22:45 +0000
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
In-Reply-To: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 4:06 PM,  <lyngwyst at gmail.com> wrote:
> I wrote a Python script, which executed as intended on Linux and
> from cmd.exe on Windows.  Then, I ran it from the PowerShell
>command line, all print statements added ^@ after every character.

ISE is the only command-line environment that's specific to
PowerShell. Surely you wouldn't be running Python scripts in ISE.

If powershell.exe is run normally, then it's a console application.
python.exe would inherit the console handle, and that's the end of its
interaction with PowerShell. At most PowerShell (or any process that's
attached to the console) may have set the console to a different
output codepage via SetConsoleOutputCP or set the mode on the screen
buffer via SetConsoleMode. As far as I know, neither of these can make
the console print "^@" as a representation of NUL. It only shows "^@"
in the input buffer when you type Ctrl+2, which is what most terminals
do. For example:

    >>> s = sys.stdin.read(6)
    spam^@
    >>> s
    'spam\x00\n'
    >>> print(s)
    spam


From lyngwyst at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 13:42:25 2017
From: lyngwyst at gmail.com (Jay Braun)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 10:42:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
In-Reply-To: <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 10:28:58 AM UTC-7, eryk sun wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 4:06 PM,  <lyngwyst at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I wrote a Python script, which executed as intended on Linux and
> > from cmd.exe on Windows.  Then, I ran it from the PowerShell
> >command line, all print statements added ^@ after every character.
> 
> ISE is the only command-line environment that's specific to
> PowerShell. Surely you wouldn't be running Python scripts in ISE.
> 
> If powershell.exe is run normally, then it's a console application.
> python.exe would inherit the console handle, and that's the end of its
> interaction with PowerShell. At most PowerShell (or any process that's
> attached to the console) may have set the console to a different
> output codepage via SetConsoleOutputCP or set the mode on the screen
> buffer via SetConsoleMode. As far as I know, neither of these can make
> the console print "^@" as a representation of NUL. It only shows "^@"
> in the input buffer when you type Ctrl+2, which is what most terminals
> do. For example:
> 
>     >>> s = sys.stdin.read(6)
>     spam^@
>     >>> s
>     'spam\x00\n'
>     >>> print(s)
>     spam

I'm not using ISE.  I'm using a pre-edited script, and running it with the python command.

Consider the following simple script named hello.py (Python 2.7):

print "Hello"

If I enter:

python hello.py > out.txt

from cmd.exe I get a 6-character file (characters plus new-line).

from PowerShell I get an extract ^@ character after every character

j


From torriem at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 13:46:34 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 11:46:34 -0600
Subject: K&L graph partitioning code offer
In-Reply-To: <abd14283-6b69-43c9-b8c5-e4790db6848e@googlegroups.com>
References: <7bftca$lai@abc.ksu.ksu.edu>
 <844b8ab9-19bf-40b6-9173-3dec67b6ea64@googlegroups.com>
 <abd14283-6b69-43c9-b8c5-e4790db6848e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e0f200b5-f538-c841-3a1f-698899a5c0db@gmail.com>

On 03/29/2017 11:17 AM, jladasky at itu.edu wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 1:23:48 AM UTC-7, arpitam... at gmail.com wrote:
>> Hi
>> I am planning to tweak the Kernighan Lin algorithm a bit use coercing of certain vertices .I was wondering if u would be kind enough to share the  python code with me so that i can include my idea in it.
> 
> Good luck getting the code you want from Dean Hall, his post is from 1999!
> 
> (Is 18 years a record for thread necromancy?)

I don't see any reply to a post from 1998 here... What post are you
talking about?



From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 14:09:33 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 05:09:33 +1100
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
In-Reply-To: <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrAGrYcQSQhj=Ffpbk0K6hoWt8b=g3YJ7-1Rjy+2CzLXw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 4:42 AM, Jay Braun <lyngwyst at gmail.com> wrote:
> Consider the following simple script named hello.py (Python 2.7):
>
> print "Hello"
>
> If I enter:
>
> python hello.py > out.txt
>
> from cmd.exe I get a 6-character file (characters plus new-line).
>
> from PowerShell I get an extract ^@ character after every character

Sounds like cmd and PS are setting the output encodings differently.
Does the same thing occur with Python 3.6?

Try adding this to your script:

import sys
print(sys.stdout.encoding)

and run it in the same two environments (no redirection needed). Do
they give you the same thing?

My suspicion is that you're running cmd.exe in the default Windows
console, and PowerShell in some different console. But it's hard to be
sure.

ChrisA


From eryksun at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 14:19:46 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 18:19:46 +0000
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
In-Reply-To: <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1atd+JASqHkGfo1BfNZwE5iWfH3be68Hf51Bphig33fq+w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Jay Braun <lyngwyst at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm not using ISE.  I'm using a pre-edited script, and running it with the python command.
>
> Consider the following simple script named hello.py (Python 2.7):
>
> print "Hello"
>
> If I enter:
> python hello.py > out.txt
>
> from cmd.exe I get a 6-character file (characters plus new-line).
> from PowerShell I get an extract ^@ character after every character

You didn't say you were redirecting the output to a file. That's a
completely different story for PowerShell -- and far more frustrating.

cmd.exe implements redirecting a program's output to a file by
temporarily changing its own StandardOutput to the file; spawing the
process, which inherits the StandardOutput handle; and then changing
back to its original StandardOutput (typically a console screen
buffer). The program can write whatever it wants to the file, and cmd
isn't involved in any way.

PowerShell is far more invasive. Instead of giving the child process a
handle for the file, it gives it a handle for a *pipe*. PowerShell
reads from the pipe, and like an annoying busybody that no asked for,
decodes the output as text, processes it (e.g. replacing newlines),
and writes the processed data to the file. For example:

    PS C:\Temp> $script = "import sys; sys.stdout.buffer.write(b'\n')"
    PS C:\Temp> python -c $script > test.txt
    PS C:\Temp> python -c "print(open('test.txt', 'rb').read())"
    b'\xff\xfe\r\x00\n\x00'

I wrote a single byte, b'\n', but PowerShell decoded it, replaced "\n"
with "\r\n", and wrote it as UTF-16 with a BOM.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 14:23:20 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 05:23:20 +1100
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
In-Reply-To: <CACL+1atd+JASqHkGfo1BfNZwE5iWfH3be68Hf51Bphig33fq+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1atd+JASqHkGfo1BfNZwE5iWfH3be68Hf51Bphig33fq+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoUHbSN5bkJtM7FA5Pp9tesiHegsZQhjZ081KA=Uhvimw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 5:19 AM, eryk sun <eryksun at gmail.com> wrote:
> PowerShell is far more invasive. Instead of giving the child process a
> handle for the file, it gives it a handle for a *pipe*. PowerShell
> reads from the pipe, and like an annoying busybody that no asked for,
> decodes the output as text, processes it (e.g. replacing newlines),
> and writes the processed data to the file. For example:
>
>     PS C:\Temp> $script = "import sys; sys.stdout.buffer.write(b'\n')"
>     PS C:\Temp> python -c $script > test.txt
>     PS C:\Temp> python -c "print(open('test.txt', 'rb').read())"
>     b'\xff\xfe\r\x00\n\x00'
>
> I wrote a single byte, b'\n', but PowerShell decoded it, replaced "\n"
> with "\r\n", and wrote it as UTF-16 with a BOM.

Lolwut?

So PS can't handle binary redirection whatsoever. Fascinating.

ChrisA


From rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid  Wed Mar 29 14:29:15 2017
From: rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid (Rob Gaddi)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 11:29:15 -0700
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
In-Reply-To: <mailman.126.1490811804.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1atd+JASqHkGfo1BfNZwE5iWfH3be68Hf51Bphig33fq+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmoUHbSN5bkJtM7FA5Pp9tesiHegsZQhjZ081KA=Uhvimw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.126.1490811804.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <obgu8a$atj$1@dont-email.me>

On 03/29/2017 11:23 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 5:19 AM, eryk sun <eryksun at gmail.com> wrote:
>> PowerShell is far more invasive. Instead of giving the child process a
>> handle for the file, it gives it a handle for a *pipe*. PowerShell
>> reads from the pipe, and like an annoying busybody that no asked for,
>> decodes the output as text, processes it (e.g. replacing newlines),
>> and writes the processed data to the file. For example:
>>
>>     PS C:\Temp> $script = "import sys; sys.stdout.buffer.write(b'\n')"
>>     PS C:\Temp> python -c $script > test.txt
>>     PS C:\Temp> python -c "print(open('test.txt', 'rb').read())"
>>     b'\xff\xfe\r\x00\n\x00'
>>
>> I wrote a single byte, b'\n', but PowerShell decoded it, replaced "\n"
>> with "\r\n", and wrote it as UTF-16 with a BOM.
>
> Lolwut?
>
> So PS can't handle binary redirection whatsoever. Fascinating.
>
> ChrisA
>

Engineer 1: Man, that old DOS shell we keep emulating is just getting 
older and clunkier.

Engineer 2: I know, we should rewrite it.  You know, whole new thing, 
really modernize it.

E1: So, like, bring in bash like everyone else?

E2: No, better.  How about something that integrates with no preexisting 
workflow in the world.

E1: Wait, but what commands would it use?

E2: New ones.

E1: But, then how would it behave?

E2: Totally new.  Never before seen.  New commands, new semantics, whole 
9 yards.  If anyone's ever used it, I don't want to.

E1: I love this plan.

-- 
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order.  See above to fix.


From lyngwyst at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 14:30:26 2017
From: lyngwyst at gmail.com (Jay Braun)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 11:30:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
In-Reply-To: <mailman.125.1490811635.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1atd+JASqHkGfo1BfNZwE5iWfH3be68Hf51Bphig33fq+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.125.1490811635.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <afbe5fd4-e397-45e3-bf78-e586f56f4463@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 11:20:45 AM UTC-7, eryk sun wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Jay Braun <lyngwyst at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I'm not using ISE.  I'm using a pre-edited script, and running it with the python command.
> >
> > Consider the following simple script named hello.py (Python 2.7):
> >
> > print "Hello"
> >
> > If I enter:
> > python hello.py > out.txt
> >
> > from cmd.exe I get a 6-character file (characters plus new-line).
> > from PowerShell I get an extract ^@ character after every character
> 
> You didn't say you were redirecting the output to a file. That's a
> completely different story for PowerShell -- and far more frustrating.
> 
> cmd.exe implements redirecting a program's output to a file by
> temporarily changing its own StandardOutput to the file; spawing the
> process, which inherits the StandardOutput handle; and then changing
> back to its original StandardOutput (typically a console screen
> buffer). The program can write whatever it wants to the file, and cmd
> isn't involved in any way.
> 
> PowerShell is far more invasive. Instead of giving the child process a
> handle for the file, it gives it a handle for a *pipe*. PowerShell
> reads from the pipe, and like an annoying busybody that no asked for,
> decodes the output as text, processes it (e.g. replacing newlines),
> and writes the processed data to the file. For example:
> 
>     PS C:\Temp> $script = "import sys; sys.stdout.buffer.write(b'\n')"
>     PS C:\Temp> python -c $script > test.txt
>     PS C:\Temp> python -c "print(open('test.txt', 'rb').read())"
>     b'\xff\xfe\r\x00\n\x00'
> 
> I wrote a single byte, b'\n', but PowerShell decoded it, replaced "\n"
> with "\r\n", and wrote it as UTF-16 with a BOM.

You are correct.  Sorry I omitted that in my first post.  Thank you for your help.

j


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 14:39:19 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 05:39:19 +1100
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
In-Reply-To: <obgu8a$atj$1@dont-email.me>
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1atd+JASqHkGfo1BfNZwE5iWfH3be68Hf51Bphig33fq+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmoUHbSN5bkJtM7FA5Pp9tesiHegsZQhjZ081KA=Uhvimw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.126.1490811804.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <obgu8a$atj$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo5xPtEKdwkwS3=YPTiFUkAs7P0iKqBBSonAUYOECp84Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 5:29 AM, Rob Gaddi
<rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid> wrote:
> Engineer 1: Man, that old DOS shell we keep emulating is just getting older
> and clunkier.
>
> Engineer 2: I know, we should rewrite it.  You know, whole new thing, really
> modernize it.
>
> E1: So, like, bring in bash like everyone else?
>
> E2: No, better.  How about something that integrates with no preexisting
> workflow in the world.
>
> E1: Wait, but what commands would it use?
>
> E2: New ones.

My understanding of PowerShell is more like this:

E1: Man, batch files are so clunky. It's a ridiculous hodge-podge.

E2: Yeah, every shell ever written is clunky. Let's do our own thing
and make it more like a scripting language.

E1: Cool! Only, we won't use an existing language, we'll make our own,
because it'll be better.

E2: I love this plan.

We've had discussions on this list about using Python as a job control
shell, and the usual response is: Python sucks as a command executor.
It's just not designed for that. The clunkiness of bash is precisely
BECAUSE it's designed to be convenient and comfortable for a sysadmin.
All those weird splitting and escaping rules are because (a) the
easiest way to do piping, command sequencing, etc is with symbols, (b)
you can't stop people from using those symbols in file names or
arguments, and (c) it's a pain to have to quote every single string.

AIUI PowerShell is somewhat like VBScript, only it isn't quite that
either. But it's definitely more like a scripting language than a
shell language.

ChrisA


From marko at pacujo.net  Wed Mar 29 15:13:02 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 22:13:02 +0300
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1atd+JASqHkGfo1BfNZwE5iWfH3be68Hf51Bphig33fq+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.125.1490811635.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87wpb799s1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

eryk sun <eryksun at gmail.com>:
> PowerShell is far more invasive. Instead of giving the child process a
> handle for the file, it gives it a handle for a *pipe*. PowerShell
> reads from the pipe, and like an annoying busybody that no asked for,
> decodes the output as text,

You mean, a bit like Python3 does?


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 15:29:07 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 06:29:07 +1100
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
In-Reply-To: <87wpb799s1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1atd+JASqHkGfo1BfNZwE5iWfH3be68Hf51Bphig33fq+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.125.1490811635.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpb799s1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrpO9v27o3VCk7o6-wwHiUkCD2Fw8zeMQFwNzwgzafgng@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 6:13 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> eryk sun <eryksun at gmail.com>:
>> PowerShell is far more invasive. Instead of giving the child process a
>> handle for the file, it gives it a handle for a *pipe*. PowerShell
>> reads from the pipe, and like an annoying busybody that no asked for,
>> decodes the output as text,
>
> You mean, a bit like Python3 does?

If you open a file in Python 3, you can choose whether to open it as
text or binary. When you print text to stdout, well, it's text, so of
course it has to be encoded appropriately; if you're doing something
unusual (like a CGI script creating an image file), you can override
the default and change stdout to be binary. But normally, the standard
streams are connected ultimately to a human, so they're text.

The problem is that PS is decoding and then re-encoding instead of
simply telling the process what encoding to use. That's just wrong.

ChrisA


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Mar 29 15:35:20 2017
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 21:35:20 +0200
Subject: logging.LogRecord asctime aattribute - easily override somehow?
References: <CANc-5Uz98AsPNdkj+t+sePoruNw6B+pdedjTEVGv3w3-cXdjtA@mail.gmail.com>
 <obgo0p$m9o$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CANc-5Uwa4KdveFOeHo5_PcnTdep=e3LMSWOMcUASO1ZKv+1f=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <obh29i$185$1@blaine.gmane.org>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

>>>> import logging
>>>> logging.basicConfig(format="%(asctime)s" + logging.BASIC_FORMAT,
>>>> datefmt="***%A***") logging.warn("foo")
>  ***Wednesday***WARNING:root:foo
> 
> Thanks, Peter. I suppose a bit more detail of my environment would
> have helped. I'm actually using the logging package indirectly via
> Flask. After a quick skim of Flask's code, it didn't look like the
> Flask author considered that users might want to do their own thing
> with logging. I think I could override the Flask.logger property and
> chuck in something like your code. I'll just suffer for the time being
> with my "two word" timestamps. 

$ cat hello.py
from flask import Flask

import functools
import flask.logging

flask.logging.Formatter = functools.partial(
    flask.logging.Formatter, datefmt="%A"
)

app = Flask(__name__)

@app.route('/')
def hello_world():
    app.logger.critical("test")
    return 'Hello, World!'
$ FLASK_APP=hello.py python -m flask run &
[1] 6028
$  * Serving Flask app "hello"
 * Running on http://127.0.0.1:5000/ (Press CTRL+C to quit)

$ curl http://127.0.0.1:5000/
[Wednesday] CRITICAL in hello: test
127.0.0.1 - - [29/Mar/2017 21:26:38] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 -
Hello, World!$ 

> Whoever thought you'd want to break up
> timestamps into two words by default, and hard-code a comma as the
> separator between seconds and milliseconds?

In Germany the comma is the decimal separator, so this doesn't look like two 
words to my eye. However, the culprit is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601

"""
A decimal mark, either a comma or a dot (without any preference as stated in 
resolution 10 of the 22nd General Conference CGPM in 2003,[16] but with a 
preference for a comma according to ISO 8601:2004)[17] is used as a 
separator between the time element and its fraction
"""

> 
> Just for the record, for my own standalone code I never use the
> logging module. I just have a simple Logger class which does all I
> need. The logging module (and log4j) have always seemed to me to be an
> overly general solution in search of a problem.
> 
> Skip




From marko at pacujo.net  Wed Mar 29 15:47:24 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 22:47:24 +0300
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1atd+JASqHkGfo1BfNZwE5iWfH3be68Hf51Bphig33fq+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.125.1490811635.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpb799s1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrpO9v27o3VCk7o6-wwHiUkCD2Fw8zeMQFwNzwgzafgng@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.128.1490815751.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87o9wj986r.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
> But normally, the standard streams are connected ultimately to a
> human, so they're text.

Huh? The standard input is the workload and the standard output is the
result of the computation.

Arguably, the standard error stream is meant for humans.


Marko


From eryksun at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 15:59:33 2017
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 19:59:33 +0000
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
In-Reply-To: <87wpb799s1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1atd+JASqHkGfo1BfNZwE5iWfH3be68Hf51Bphig33fq+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.125.1490811635.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpb799s1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CACL+1avfTWJ8cnJB5H+CPpNUKp9zEfjt1O8feMQAneog3V5etg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 7:13 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> eryk sun <eryksun at gmail.com>:
>> PowerShell is far more invasive. Instead of giving the child process a
>> handle for the file, it gives it a handle for a *pipe*. PowerShell
>> reads from the pipe, and like an annoying busybody that no asked for,
>> decodes the output as text,
>
> You mean, a bit like Python3 does?

The closest to what we're talking about here would be using
subprocess.Popen and friends to create pipelines and redirect output
to files. Opening a file defaults to text mode in Python for how
Python access the file, but if you pass a file descriptor as Popen's
stdout argument, Python isn't acting as a middle man. The child
process writes directly to the file.

PowerShell makes itself a middle man in the cases of file redirection
and pipelines. It does this to enable all of the capabilities of its
object pipeline. That's fine. But, IMO, there should be a simple way
to get the plain-old redirection and piping in which the shell is not
a middle man. The simplest way I know to do that in PowerShell  is to
run the command line via `cmd /c`. But I'm no PowerShell expert.


From jan at hyper-world.de  Wed Mar 29 16:19:08 2017
From: jan at hyper-world.de (Jan Gosmann)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 16:19:08 -0400
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <CAEfz+Tw8_6Qs3xfwyu-Xt2tAh7yTH-EYiTrgCpYWr7qaNWXmxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <EEF50688-64BD-42C1-8B13-612F182C5D7C@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TyLt-1_2k-nneEtawiPgua-=1MZ5iR0XUoxCJcwx3RBRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <83C9F43F-1716-4956-AB08-742B300186A8@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+Tw8_6Qs3xfwyu-Xt2tAh7yTH-EYiTrgCpYWr7qaNWXmxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E7F340A2-9667-4ABC-963E-E8EA336CD830@hyper-world.de>

On 28 Mar 2017, at 14:21, INADA Naoki wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 12:29 AM, Jan Gosmann <jan at hyper-world.de> 
> wrote:
>
> I suppose smaller and faster benchmark is better to others looking for 
> it.
> I already stopped the azure instance.
> [...]
> There are no maxrss difference in "smaller existing examples"?
> [...]
> I want to investigate RAM usage, without any swapping.

Running further trials indicate that the problem actually is related to 
swapping. If I reduce the model size in the benchmark slightly so that 
everything fits into the main memory, the problem disappears. Only when 
the memory usage exceeds the 32GB that I have, Python 3.6 will acquire 
way more memory (from the swap) than Python 3.5.

Jan


From skip.montanaro at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 17:49:44 2017
From: skip.montanaro at gmail.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 16:49:44 -0500
Subject: logging.LogRecord asctime aattribute - easily override somehow?
In-Reply-To: <obh29i$185$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <CANc-5Uz98AsPNdkj+t+sePoruNw6B+pdedjTEVGv3w3-cXdjtA@mail.gmail.com>
 <obgo0p$m9o$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CANc-5Uwa4KdveFOeHo5_PcnTdep=e3LMSWOMcUASO1ZKv+1f=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <obh29i$185$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CANc-5Uy1hbqGbc5qLX53pMy_gfVcigMefNhXsToeueKR5UGmXw@mail.gmail.com>

Skip> Whoever thought you'd want to break up
Skip> timestamps into two words by default, and hard-code a comma as the
Skip> separator between seconds and milliseconds?

Peter> In Germany the comma is the decimal separator, so this doesn't
look like two
Peter> words to my eye.

The "two words" reference I made was to the space separating the date
and time. (I'd prefer a "T" separating date and time, as downstream
log processing tools can be slightly simpler, since they don't have to
collapse two fields into one.) The comma separator in the seconds
field is fine if that's appropriate for your environment, though it
appears to be hard-coded, not locale-specific:

    default_time_format = '%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S'
    default_msec_format = '%s,%03d'

If I parse such times in a straightforward way in my locale (C or
en_US.utf8), extracting the seconds as a floating point number is,
once again, more complex than it ought to be, as a comma is not the
proper decimal point in my locale(s).

Skip


From jladasky at itu.edu  Wed Mar 29 18:27:38 2017
From: jladasky at itu.edu (jladasky at itu.edu)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 15:27:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: K&L graph partitioning code offer
In-Reply-To: <mailman.123.1490809606.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <7bftca$lai@abc.ksu.ksu.edu>
 <844b8ab9-19bf-40b6-9173-3dec67b6ea64@googlegroups.com>
 <abd14283-6b69-43c9-b8c5-e4790db6848e@googlegroups.com>
 <e0f200b5-f538-c841-3a1f-698899a5c0db@gmail.com>
 <mailman.123.1490809606.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b7ca4387-d7c1-423b-84b9-14e3c3ee0fed@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 10:46:56 AM UTC-7, Michael Torrie wrote:
> On 03/29/2017 11:17 AM, j... at itu.edu wrote:
> > On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 1:23:48 AM UTC-7, arpitam... at gmail.com wrote:
> >> Hi
> >> I am planning to tweak the Kernighan Lin algorithm a bit use coercing of certain vertices .I was wondering if u would be kind enough to share the  python code with me so that i can include my idea in it.
> > 
> > Good luck getting the code you want from Dean Hall, his post is from 1999!
> > 
> > (Is 18 years a record for thread necromancy?)
> 
> I don't see any reply to a post from 1998 here... What post are you
> talking about?

The Google Groups interface shows that the first post in this thread is as follows:

> From: dwh... at ksu.edu (Dean Hall)
> Subject: K&L graph partitioning code offer
> Date: 1999/03/01
> Message-ID: <7bftca$lai at abc.ksu.ksu.edu>#1/1
> X-Deja-AN: 450257007
> Summary: K&L two-way partitioning algorithm coded in Python
> X-Complaints-To: ab... at ksu.edu
> X-Trace: cnn.ksu.ksu.edu 920352972 10308 129.130.12.3 (2 Mar 1999 05:36:12 GMT)
> Organization: Kansas State University
> Keywords: graph theory partition Kernighan Lin K&L
> NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Mar 1999 05:36:12 GMT
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
> 
> Hello,
> 
> If anyone is interested in the Kernighan & Lin partitioning algorithm,
> I've coded it in Python.
> For those that don't know, the K&L algorithm finds a
> pair of partitions of a set that has the locally minimum
> number of edges between the two partitions (cutsize).
> 
> I implemented a dumb Graph class (vertices and egdes),
> then a KLPartitioner class.
> Then, for fun ('cuz that's what Python is),
> I wrote a class that uses Tkinter to display the resulting graph.
> 
> I don't read the newsgroups much,
> so email me if you wanna see the code.
> 
> 
> !!Dean
> dwh... at ksu.edu


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Wed Mar 29 20:12:22 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 11:12:22 +1100
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <EEF50688-64BD-42C1-8B13-612F182C5D7C@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TyLt-1_2k-nneEtawiPgua-=1MZ5iR0XUoxCJcwx3RBRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <83C9F43F-1716-4956-AB08-742B300186A8@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+Tw8_6Qs3xfwyu-Xt2tAh7yTH-EYiTrgCpYWr7qaNWXmxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E7F340A2-9667-4ABC-963E-E8EA336CD830@hyper-world.de>
 <mailman.131.1490818758.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58dc4d69$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 07:19 am, Jan Gosmann wrote:

> Running further trials indicate that the problem actually is related to
> swapping. If I reduce the model size in the benchmark slightly so that
> everything fits into the main memory, the problem disappears. Only when
> the memory usage exceeds the 32GB that I have, Python 3.6 will acquire
> way more memory (from the swap) than Python 3.5.

If you can demonstrate this effect using simple example code without the
external dependencies (using nothing but the standard library) and people
can replicate it, I think it should be reported as a bug.

If you are right, it does sound like a performance regression. Maybe there's
a way to fix that.



-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From steve+python at pearwood.info  Wed Mar 29 20:14:58 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 11:14:58 +1100
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1atd+JASqHkGfo1BfNZwE5iWfH3be68Hf51Bphig33fq+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.125.1490811635.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpb799s1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrpO9v27o3VCk7o6-wwHiUkCD2Fw8zeMQFwNzwgzafgng@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.128.1490815751.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <87o9wj986r.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <58dc4e04$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 06:47 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
>> But normally, the standard streams are connected ultimately to a
>> human, so they're text.
> 
> Huh? The standard input is the workload 

Which is usually typed by a human, read from a file containing
human-readable text, a file-name intended to be read by a human, or some
other data in human-readable form.


> and the standard output is the result of the computation.

Which is generally intended to be read by a human.


> Arguably, the standard error stream is meant for humans.

Just like the rest of the computation. Relatively few command-line
computations are performed by machines, for machines, using
machine-friendly human-hostile formats.




-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 20:32:23 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 11:32:23 +1100
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
In-Reply-To: <58dc4e04$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1atd+JASqHkGfo1BfNZwE5iWfH3be68Hf51Bphig33fq+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.125.1490811635.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpb799s1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrpO9v27o3VCk7o6-wwHiUkCD2Fw8zeMQFwNzwgzafgng@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.128.1490815751.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <87o9wj986r.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58dc4e04$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqyBPXtca1hw-6kkT+LAORqawW5JGvoAuSF79tEr2mgOw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 11:14 AM, Steve D'Aprano
<steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> Just like the rest of the computation. Relatively few command-line
> computations are performed by machines, for machines, using
> machine-friendly human-hostile formats.

And even most computations performed by machines for machines are done
using human-friendly transmission formats. Trying to brain-storm
actually human-hostile formats... let's see. There's extremely
low-level protocols like IP, TCP, DNS, and X11. There are
(de)compression tools like gzip, where byte size is the entire point
of the utility. There's XML, of course, which isn't exactly
machine-friendly, but is pretty human-hostile. And most crypto is done
with byte streams rather than text. Beyond that, pretty much
everything is text. Ever since I started git-managing my /etc
directory, I've been seeing changes made by various programs being
reflected there - in text files. Internet protocols are almost
exclusively text. Unless you say otherwise, most Unix utilities
consume and emit text, even when they're in "machine readable" mode -
for example, a number of git commands support a "--porcelain" option
that removes color codes and pretty formatting, and also uses a format
that's guaranteed to be stable, but it's still text.

Despite fundamentally working with bit operations and numbers,
computers today are still heavily text-aligned. Might have something
to do with the fact that they're programmed by humans...

ChrisA


From jan at hyper-world.de  Wed Mar 29 21:16:45 2017
From: jan at hyper-world.de (Jan Gosmann)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 21:16:45 -0400
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <58dc4d69$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
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 <E7F340A2-9667-4ABC-963E-E8EA336CD830@hyper-world.de>
 <mailman.131.1490818758.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58dc4d69$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <0D1A837A-FD65-4C50-AC81-FE97D7E42EDC@hyper-world.de>

On 29 Mar 2017, at 20:12, Steve D'Aprano wrote:

> If you can demonstrate this effect using simple example code without 
> the
> external dependencies (using nothing but the standard library) and 
> people
> can replicate it, I think it should be reported as a bug.

I probably won't be able to demonstrate the effect with simple example 
code because I haven't the slightest idea what is causing it. Also, I'm 
not sure how much more time I want to invest in this. After all it is a 
problem that might never get noticed by any users of the software.

Jan


From rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 22:50:44 2017
From: rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com (Rick Johnson)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 19:50:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: newbie question re classes and self
In-Reply-To: <7545c7c1-63cb-4e00-99a3-2fdad0f62896@googlegroups.com>
References: <7545c7c1-63cb-4e00-99a3-2fdad0f62896@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6a71d8f2-d6ee-4e09-89f6-a1e026974313@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 at 3:09:45 AM UTC-5, loial wrote:
> Can I pass self(or all its variables) to a class?
> Basically, how do I make all the variables defined in self
> in the calling python script available to the python class
> I want to call?

Your question, as presented, is difficult to understand, and
the phrase "variables defined in self", is quite absurd.

I'm making a wild assumption here, but perhaps you want to
"bulk-set" or "bulk-query" all the attributes of a class
instance externally? If so, depending on how the object was
defined, there are a few ways to achieve this.

However, my advanced powers of perception tell me that you
might be using Python in an incorrect manner, but i cannot
be sure until you explain this problem in more detail. So if
you can provide us a simple code example, or even psuedo
code, that would be very helpful.


From rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 23:19:59 2017
From: rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com (Rick Johnson)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 20:19:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <mailman.134.1490836610.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
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Message-ID: <517fe120-4834-448d-887f-138e2422e54c@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 8:17:01 PM UTC-5, Jan Gosmann wrote:
> On 29 Mar 2017, at 20:12, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> > If you can demonstrate this effect using simple example
> > code without the external dependencies (using nothing but
> > the standard library) and people can replicate it, I think
> > it should be reported as a bug.
> 
> I probably won't be able to demonstrate the effect with
> simple example code because I haven't the slightest idea
> what is causing it. Also, I'm not sure how much more time I
> want to invest in this. After all it is a problem that
> might never get noticed by any users of the software.

Really? How could your clients not notice 60 GB of memory
usage unless they are running some kind of mad-dog insane
top-of-the-line hardware? (Got Benjamins???) Of course, in
the case they are not DARPA scientist supported by a
viturally unlimited supply of tax dollars provided by the
endless toils of American slave-bots, how could they ignore
the thrashing? o_O


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 23:31:13 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 14:31:13 +1100
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <517fe120-4834-448d-887f-138e2422e54c@googlegroups.com>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <EEF50688-64BD-42C1-8B13-612F182C5D7C@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TyLt-1_2k-nneEtawiPgua-=1MZ5iR0XUoxCJcwx3RBRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <83C9F43F-1716-4956-AB08-742B300186A8@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+Tw8_6Qs3xfwyu-Xt2tAh7yTH-EYiTrgCpYWr7qaNWXmxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E7F340A2-9667-4ABC-963E-E8EA336CD830@hyper-world.de>
 <mailman.131.1490818758.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58dc4d69$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
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Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo4aTwPmwZW0Xo_ZoAiRoYETB3XhdJTYuTrNzf5-eNFGg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Rick Johnson
<rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 8:17:01 PM UTC-5, Jan Gosmann wrote:
>> On 29 Mar 2017, at 20:12, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>> > If you can demonstrate this effect using simple example
>> > code without the external dependencies (using nothing but
>> > the standard library) and people can replicate it, I think
>> > it should be reported as a bug.
>>
>> I probably won't be able to demonstrate the effect with
>> simple example code because I haven't the slightest idea
>> what is causing it. Also, I'm not sure how much more time I
>> want to invest in this. After all it is a problem that
>> might never get noticed by any users of the software.
>
> Really? How could your clients not notice 60 GB of memory
> usage unless they are running some kind of mad-dog insane
> top-of-the-line hardware? (Got Benjamins???) Of course, in
> the case they are not DARPA scientist supported by a
> viturally unlimited supply of tax dollars provided by the
> endless toils of American slave-bots, how could they ignore
> the thrashing? o_O

Did you read the project's README? This is a dramatic reduction from
the normal memory usage of this kind of job. So, yes, they *are* going
to have top-of-the-line hardware. If you're doing a job that normally
would require 256GB of RAM, and instead of being able to run in 40GB,
it needs 60GB, are you going to notice? You probably have 64GB or
128GB.

ChrisA


From rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 23:53:35 2017
From: rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com (Rick Johnson)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 20:53:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.49.1490552469.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1490542635.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58d7fdc3$0$1617$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmre1fm2n6o5t3H6+YkomseQrXunTWmp=58BEmnhEgL23w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.49.1490552469.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3fda49ff-1907-493c-a465-7e68bb86b7b1@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 1:21:18 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 4:43 AM, Steve D'Aprano
> <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:

> [...] So, for instance, Eryk Sun commented that my rounded
> box example didn't render correctly in all fonts - but in
> the future, a new version of those fonts could be released,
> adding support for those characters. We *know* that the
> code points I used are permanently and irrevocably
> allocated to the purposes I used them for, so we can all be
> confident that they'll be used correctly if at all.

You place a lot of faith in the supposed "immutability of
Unicode code points", but a lot people have placed a lot of
faith in many past and current encoding systems, only to be
bamboozled by the gatekeepers some time later.

> > That's not quite right. Unicode includes 137000 or so
> > Private Use Characters, which anyone can define for their
> > own purposes, "by private agreement". There's an
> > unofficial registry of such private use characters here:

And so, although Unicode was created to solve the endless
compatibility problems between multiple archaic encoding
systems, the designers thought it necessary to add a "custom
space" that will keep the incompatibilities on life support.
Smart. *REALLY* smart. And people _wonder_ why Dylan was a
disgruntled laureate...


From rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 00:21:56 2017
From: rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com (Rick Johnson)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 21:21:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.57.1490558002.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.38.1490547441.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58d80413$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAE6NSRDpdadqORG1w0529bvvw_Gkoau8xTga3LYS=LfGCmXuqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmojKPE3d4y5YEJJuGer174Yv0ZcobJGOp8rmYgYYYefbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.57.1490558002.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <626fc6cf-0cf9-4efa-a3ff-f9ca2ddcb7fd@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 2:53:49 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 6:25 AM, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 26 March 2017 at 20:10, Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 03:57 am, Mikhail V wrote:

> I generally find that when people say that Unicode doesn't
> solve their problems and they need to roll their own, it's
> usually one of two possibilities:  1) "Their problems" are
> all about simplicity. They don't want to have to deal with
> all the complexities of real-world text, so they
> arbitrarily restrict things.

There are only so many hours in the day Chris. Not every
progammer has the time to cater to every selfish desire of
every potential client. You try to create the best product
you can, but at the end of the process, there will always be
someone (or a group of someones) who are unhappy with the
result.

> 2) Unicode _would_ solve their problems, they just don't
> realize it.  So if you're rolling your own text display
> system, you should start by making a signed declaration:
> 
> """
> I, the undersigned, acknowledge that my program is
> intentionally excluding everyone who does not fit the
> following requirements: [choose all applicable]
> 
> [ ] Speaks English exclusively

Of course, your comment presupposing that every programmer
is fluent in every natural language. Which is not only
impractical, it's impossible.

> [ ] Uses no diacritical marks

Why is it my responsibiliy to encode my text with
pronuciation tutorials? Are we adults here or what?

> [ ] Writes all text top-to-bottom, left-to-right

Not my problem. Learn the King's English or go wait for
extinction to arrive.

> [ ] Uses only characters from the Basic Multilingual Plane
> [ ] Uses only characters from this codepage: ____
> [ ] Uses a monospaced font
> [ ] Uses a proportionally-spaced font
> [ ] Uses this font: _____________
> [ ] Uses a mouse
> [ ] Uses a keyboard
> [ ] Other: ___________________
> (use additional pages if required)

What don't you add these: 

[ ] Has the ability to read and comprehend at a high 
    school level.
[ ] Has functioning visual receptors.
[ ] Has a functioning brain.
[ ] Is not currently in a vegetative state

> Sure, there are good reasons to place restrictions on
> people's text. But those restrictions are part of your
> public API and UI. Acknowledge them. Own them. And justify
> them.

The only justifaction required is the bottom line. If your
products generate profit, then you're doing something right.
Besides, you don't need _everyone_ on the planet to buy your
product to be a success. Unlike the business practices of
Apple, we would be wise to leave plenty of room for others
to enter the market. Competition is good for everyone.
Monopolies are evil.



From rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 00:28:06 2017
From: rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com (Rick Johnson)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 21:28:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.62.1490571744.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.38.1490547441.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58d80413$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAE6NSRDpdadqORG1w0529bvvw_Gkoau8xTga3LYS=LfGCmXuqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmojKPE3d4y5YEJJuGer174Yv0ZcobJGOp8rmYgYYYefbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRBXrq+gkmt9ggZHAV8i7m93wJUXBRNUv9whzrc_==Tjvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.62.1490571744.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <414ec9a4-8b68-4db4-971a-26685ba5c8a9@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 6:42:36 PM UTC-5, Mikhail V wrote: 
> And all text I currently read on my monitor are prerendered
> bitmaps, refined manually for frequently used sizes, and
> that is how it should be made. IOW there are much more
> important aspects than the ability to scale a text line
> from 600 px to 601 px wide, if you know what I mean.

LOL!


From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Mar 30 00:29:48 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 07:29:48 +0300
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1atd+JASqHkGfo1BfNZwE5iWfH3be68Hf51Bphig33fq+w@mail.gmail.com>
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 <87o9wj986r.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
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Message-ID: <87inmr8k03.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info>:

> On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 06:47 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> Huh? The standard input is the workload 
>
> Which is usually typed by a human, read from a file containing
> human-readable text, a file-name intended to be read by a human, or
> some other data in human-readable form.

The main point is that it is supposed to be processed programmatically.
It is somewhat rare that you type in the standard input. In particular,
you want to be able to form useful pipelines from commands.

Of course, in grand UNIX tradition, you strive to design your
interchange formats to be also marginally applicable for human
interaction (XML, base64 etc).

>> and the standard output is the result of the computation.
> Which is generally intended to be read by a human.

That is more often the case. However, you want the format to be rigorous
so it can be easily parsed programmatically.

> Relatively few command-line computations are performed by machines,
> for machines, using machine-friendly human-hostile formats.

Didn't count them. Still, I'd expect not having to deal with Unicode
decoding exceptions with arbitrary input.

There recently was a related debate on the Guile mailing list. Like
Python3, Guile2 is sensitive to illegal UTF-8 on the command line and in
the standard streams. An emacs developer was urging Guile developers to
follow emacs's example and support a superset of UTF-8 and Unicode where
all byte strings can be bijectively mapped into text.

Python3 partially does a similar thing, but only when dealing with
pathnames.


Marko


From steve at pearwood.info  Thu Mar 30 01:06:04 2017
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 30 Mar 2017 05:06:04 GMT
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1atd+JASqHkGfo1BfNZwE5iWfH3be68Hf51Bphig33fq+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.125.1490811635.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpb799s1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
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 <mailman.128.1490815751.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <87o9wj986r.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58dc4e04$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87inmr8k03.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <58dc923c$0$2751$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 07:29:48 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

[...]
> I'd expect not having to deal with Unicode
> decoding exceptions with arbitrary input.

That's just silly. If you have *arbitrary* bytes, not all byte-sequences 
are valid Unicode, so you have to expect decoding exceptions, if you're 
processing text.

Coming back to your complaint: Python 3 might default to automatically 
decoding stdin to Unicode, but you can choose to read stdin as bytes if 
you so wish.


> There recently was a related debate on the Guile mailing list. Like
> Python3, Guile2 is sensitive to illegal UTF-8 on the command line and in
> the standard streams. An emacs developer was urging Guile developers to
> follow emacs's example and support a superset of UTF-8 and Unicode where
> all byte strings can be bijectively mapped into text.

I'd like to read that. Got a link?



-- 
Steve


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 01:43:39 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 16:43:39 +1100
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <626fc6cf-0cf9-4efa-a3ff-f9ca2ddcb7fd@googlegroups.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.38.1490547441.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58d80413$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAE6NSRDpdadqORG1w0529bvvw_Gkoau8xTga3LYS=LfGCmXuqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmojKPE3d4y5YEJJuGer174Yv0ZcobJGOp8rmYgYYYefbg@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqDU1Wr4y0G=BmYCjEdKLC0_Ch-fNoM2cOykX1vB5B-5Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 3:21 PM, Rick Johnson
<rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 2:53:49 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 6:25 AM, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On 26 March 2017 at 20:10, Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 03:57 am, Mikhail V wrote:
>
>> I generally find that when people say that Unicode doesn't
>> solve their problems and they need to roll their own, it's
>> usually one of two possibilities:  1) "Their problems" are
>> all about simplicity. They don't want to have to deal with
>> all the complexities of real-world text, so they
>> arbitrarily restrict things.
>
> There are only so many hours in the day Chris. Not every
> progammer has the time to cater to every selfish desire of
> every potential client. You try to create the best product
> you can, but at the end of the process, there will always be
> someone (or a group of someones) who are unhappy with the
> result.

Except that it doesn't actually take very much work to call on someone
else's library, which is what you get when you use Unicode properly.
(At least, assuming you're using a decent language like Python, which
comes with Unicode libraries, and a decent GUI toolkit if you're going
that way.)

>> """
>> I, the undersigned, acknowledge that my program is
>> intentionally excluding everyone who does not fit the
>> following requirements: [choose all applicable]
>>
>> [ ] Speaks English exclusively
>
> Of course, your comment presupposing that every programmer
> is fluent in every natural language. Which is not only
> impractical, it's impossible.

Nope. I can't speak Mandarin, but I can make absolutely sure that all
my programs can accept Chinese characters. A friend of mine sent me an
audio file with a name that included some Chinese, and I was able to
handle it no problem.

>> [ ] Uses no diacritical marks
>
> Why is it my responsibiliy to encode my text with
> pronuciation tutorials? Are we adults here or what?
>
>> [ ] Writes all text top-to-bottom, left-to-right
>
> Not my problem. Learn the King's English or go wait for
> extinction to arrive.

And these two cement your parochialism thoroughly in everyone's minds.
"Pronunciation tutorials", eh? Sure. Tell that to everyone who speaks
Spanish, Turkish, Norwegian, German, or Vietnamese, all of which use
diacritical marks to distinguish between letters. English is the weird
language in that it uses letter pairs instead of adorned letters (eg
"ch" and "sh" instead of "?" and "?").

Also, which king are you referring to, exactly? Whose English do you speak?

> What don't you add these:
>
> [ ] Has the ability to read and comprehend at a high
>     school level.
> [ ] Has functioning visual receptors.
> [ ] Has a functioning brain.
> [ ] Is not currently in a vegetative state

Nah. If I did, I'd have to say "[ ] Is not trolling python-list" as well.

>> Sure, there are good reasons to place restrictions on
>> people's text. But those restrictions are part of your
>> public API and UI. Acknowledge them. Own them. And justify
>> them.
>
> The only justifaction required is the bottom line. If your
> products generate profit, then you're doing something right.
> Besides, you don't need _everyone_ on the planet to buy your
> product to be a success. Unlike the business practices of
> Apple, we would be wise to leave plenty of room for others
> to enter the market. Competition is good for everyone.
> Monopolies are evil.

Riiiiiight. What's the "bottom line" for open source software? How do
you measure whether your product is generating a profit or not?

ChrisA


From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Mar 30 01:43:46 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 08:43:46 +0300
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1atd+JASqHkGfo1BfNZwE5iWfH3be68Hf51Bphig33fq+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.125.1490811635.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpb799s1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrpO9v27o3VCk7o6-wwHiUkCD2Fw8zeMQFwNzwgzafgng@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.128.1490815751.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <87o9wj986r.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58dc4e04$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87inmr8k03.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58dc923c$0$2751$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87efxf8gkt.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:

> On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 07:29:48 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> I'd expect not having to deal with Unicode decoding exceptions with
>> arbitrary input.
>
> That's just silly. If you have *arbitrary* bytes, not all
> byte-sequences are valid Unicode, so you have to expect decoding
> exceptions, if you're processing text.

The input is not in my control, and bailing out may not be an option:

   $ echo $'aa\n\xdd\naa' | grep aa
   aa
   aa
   $ echo $'\xdd' | python2 -c 'import sys; sys.stdin.read(1)'
   $ echo $'\xdd' | python3 -c 'import sys; sys.stdin.read(1)'
   Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
     File "/usr/lib64/python3.5/codecs.py", line 321, in decode
       (result, consumed) = self._buffer_decode(data, self.errors, final)
   UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xdd in position 0:
    invalid continuation byte

Note that "grep" is also locale-aware.

>> There recently was a related debate on the Guile mailing list. Like
>> Python3, Guile2 is sensitive to illegal UTF-8 on the command line and
>> in the standard streams. An emacs developer was urging Guile
>> developers to follow emacs's example and support a superset of UTF-8
>> and Unicode where all byte strings can be bijectively mapped into
>> text.
>
> I'd like to read that. Got a link?

<URL:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-user/2017-02/msg00054.html>


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 01:48:59 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 16:48:59 +1100
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
In-Reply-To: <87efxf8gkt.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1atd+JASqHkGfo1BfNZwE5iWfH3be68Hf51Bphig33fq+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.125.1490811635.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpb799s1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrpO9v27o3VCk7o6-wwHiUkCD2Fw8zeMQFwNzwgzafgng@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.128.1490815751.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <87o9wj986r.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58dc4e04$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87inmr8k03.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58dc923c$0$2751$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
 <87efxf8gkt.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoO-NuV=KYL-tGmR6g93fnbmRd2+YjEJ9AREUE9o7zYhg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 4:43 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> The input is not in my control, and bailing out may not be an option:
>
>    $ echo
> aa\n\xdd\naa' | grep aa
>    aa
>    aa
>    $ echo \xdd' | python2 -c 'import sys; sys.stdin.read(1)'
>    $ echo \xdd' | python3 -c 'import sys; sys.stdin.read(1)'
>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>      File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
>      File "/usr/lib64/python3.5/codecs.py", line 321, in decode
>        (result, consumed) = self._buffer_decode(data, self.errors, final)
>    UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xdd in position 0:
>     invalid continuation byte
>
> Note that "grep" is also locale-aware.

So what exactly does byte value 0xDD mean in your stream?

And if you say "it doesn't matter", then why are you assigning meaning
to byte value 0x0A in your first example? Truly binary data doesn't
give any meaning to 0x0A.

ChrisA


From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Mar 30 01:57:00 2017
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 08:57:00 +0300
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1atd+JASqHkGfo1BfNZwE5iWfH3be68Hf51Bphig33fq+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.125.1490811635.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpb799s1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrpO9v27o3VCk7o6-wwHiUkCD2Fw8zeMQFwNzwgzafgng@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.128.1490815751.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <87o9wj986r.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58dc4e04$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87inmr8k03.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58dc923c$0$2751$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
 <87efxf8gkt.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmoO-NuV=KYL-tGmR6g93fnbmRd2+YjEJ9AREUE9o7zYhg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.137.1490852943.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87a8838fyr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 4:43 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> The input is not in my control, and bailing out may not be an option:
>>
>>    $ echo
>> aa\n\xdd\naa' | grep aa
>>    aa
>>    aa
>>    $ echo \xdd' | python2 -c 'import sys; sys.stdin.read(1)'
>>    $ echo \xdd' | python3 -c 'import sys; sys.stdin.read(1)'
>>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>>      File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
>>      File "/usr/lib64/python3.5/codecs.py", line 321, in decode
>>        (result, consumed) = self._buffer_decode(data, self.errors, final)
>>    UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xdd in position 0:
>>     invalid continuation byte
>>
>> Note that "grep" is also locale-aware.
>
> So what exactly does byte value 0xDD mean in your stream?
>
> And if you say "it doesn't matter", then why are you assigning meaning
> to byte value 0x0A in your first example? Truly binary data doesn't
> give any meaning to 0x0A.

What I'm saying is that every program must behave in a minimally
controlled manner regardless of its inputs (which are not in its
control). With UTF-8, it is dangerously easy to write programs that
explode surprisingly. What's more, resyncing after such exceptions is
not at all easy. I would venture to guess that few Python programs even
try to do that.


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 02:03:20 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 17:03:20 +1100
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
In-Reply-To: <87a8838fyr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1atd+JASqHkGfo1BfNZwE5iWfH3be68Hf51Bphig33fq+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.125.1490811635.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpb799s1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrpO9v27o3VCk7o6-wwHiUkCD2Fw8zeMQFwNzwgzafgng@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.128.1490815751.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <87o9wj986r.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58dc4e04$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87inmr8k03.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58dc923c$0$2751$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
 <87efxf8gkt.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmoO-NuV=KYL-tGmR6g93fnbmRd2+YjEJ9AREUE9o7zYhg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.137.1490852943.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8838fyr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrBH+2i1aRDFiVw7nTnwv4XcxBgE4d=YHGar16oL=U6Fg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 4:57 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> What I'm saying is that every program must behave in a minimally
> controlled manner regardless of its inputs (which are not in its
> control). With UTF-8, it is dangerously easy to write programs that
> explode surprisingly. What's more, resyncing after such exceptions is
> not at all easy. I would venture to guess that few Python programs even
> try to do that.

If you expect to get a series of decimal integers, and you find a "Q"
in the middle, is it dangerously easy for your program blow up? How do
you resync after that? Do these questions even make sense? Not in my
opinion; you got invalid data, so you throw an exception and stop
reading data.

ChrisA


From songofacandy at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 04:30:22 2017
From: songofacandy at gmail.com (INADA Naoki)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 17:30:22 +0900
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <E7F340A2-9667-4ABC-963E-E8EA336CD830@hyper-world.de>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <EEF50688-64BD-42C1-8B13-612F182C5D7C@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TyLt-1_2k-nneEtawiPgua-=1MZ5iR0XUoxCJcwx3RBRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <83C9F43F-1716-4956-AB08-742B300186A8@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+Tw8_6Qs3xfwyu-Xt2tAh7yTH-EYiTrgCpYWr7qaNWXmxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E7F340A2-9667-4ABC-963E-E8EA336CD830@hyper-world.de>
Message-ID: <CAEfz+TzcbB4+sQJGbaTfyxdSVKTmFv=B7-jZCsBOytDzn2sUcg@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Running further trials indicate that the problem actually is related to
> swapping. If I reduce the model size in the benchmark slightly so that
> everything fits into the main memory, the problem disappears. Only when the
> memory usage exceeds the 32GB that I have, Python 3.6 will acquire way more
> memory (from the swap) than Python 3.5.
>
> Jan
> --

It's very hard to believe...
I think there are some factor other than swap cause the problem.
Or, can't it reproducible in 64GB RAM machine?


From pavol.lisy at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 08:23:03 2017
From: pavol.lisy at gmail.com (Pavol Lisy)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 14:23:03 +0200
Subject: pandas dataframe, find duplicates and add suffix
In-Reply-To: <5c15090c-34c1-4ded-a550-5207fae53a98@googlegroups.com>
References: <5c15090c-34c1-4ded-a550-5207fae53a98@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CABDEq2=CijHx5FCV6Wp42JNcyK0MOc1mSqAhgLNkFfQ8qBVx8Q@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/28/17, zljubisic at gmail.com <zljubisic at gmail.com> wrote:
> In dataframe
>
> import pandas as pd
>
> data = {'model': ['first', 'first', 'second', 'second', 'second', 'third',
> 'third'],
>         'dtime': ['2017-01-01_112233', '2017-01-01_112234',
> '2017-01-01_112234', '2017-01-01_112234', '2017-01-01_112234',
> '2017-01-01_112235', '2017-01-01_112235'],
>         }
> df = pd.DataFrame(data, index = ['a.jpg', 'b.jpg', 'c.jpg', 'd.jpg',
> 'e.jpg', 'f.jpg', 'g.jpg'], columns=['model', 'dtime'])
>
> print(df.head(10))
>
>         model              dtime
> a.jpg   first  2017-01-01_112233
> b.jpg   first  2017-01-01_112234
> c.jpg  second  2017-01-01_112234
> d.jpg  second  2017-01-01_112234
> e.jpg  second  2017-01-01_112234
> f.jpg   third  2017-01-01_112235
> g.jpg   third  2017-01-01_112235
>
> within model, there are duplicate dtime values.
> For example, rows d and e are duplicates of the c row.
> Row g is duplicate of the f row.
>
> For each duplicate (within model) I would like to add suffix (starting from
> 1) to the dtime value. Something like this:
>
>         model              dtime
> a.jpg   first  2017-01-01_112233
> b.jpg   first  2017-01-01_112234
> c.jpg  second  2017-01-01_112234
> d.jpg  second  2017-01-01_112234-1
> e.jpg  second  2017-01-01_112234-2
> f.jpg   third  2017-01-01_112235
> g.jpg   third  2017-01-01_112235-1
>
> How to do that?
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

I am not expert, just played a little...

This one could work:

    gb = df.groupby([df.model, df.dtime])
    df.dtime = df.dtime + gb.cumcount().apply(lambda a:str(-a) if a else '')

this one is probably more readable:
    df.dtime = df.dtime + [str(-a) if a else '' for a in gb.cumcount()]

I don't know which one is better in memory consumption and/or speed.

This small dataframe gave me:

%timeit -r 5 df.dtime + gb.cumcount().apply(lambda a:str(-a) if a else '')
1000 loops, best of 5: 387 ?s per loop

%timeit -r 5 df.dtime + [str(-a) if a else '' for a in gb.cumcount()]
1000 loops, best of 5: 324 ?s per loop

PL.


From pavol.lisy at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 08:48:19 2017
From: pavol.lisy at gmail.com (Pavol Lisy)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 14:48:19 +0200
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <E7F340A2-9667-4ABC-963E-E8EA336CD830@hyper-world.de>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <EEF50688-64BD-42C1-8B13-612F182C5D7C@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TyLt-1_2k-nneEtawiPgua-=1MZ5iR0XUoxCJcwx3RBRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <83C9F43F-1716-4956-AB08-742B300186A8@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+Tw8_6Qs3xfwyu-Xt2tAh7yTH-EYiTrgCpYWr7qaNWXmxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E7F340A2-9667-4ABC-963E-E8EA336CD830@hyper-world.de>
Message-ID: <CABDEq2mbkZYb7GngemM7g-8W2Ko2xs8Gq5Rre6E+05-uNb7uDg@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/29/17, Jan Gosmann <jan at hyper-world.de> wrote:
> On 28 Mar 2017, at 14:21, INADA Naoki wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 12:29 AM, Jan Gosmann <jan at hyper-world.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I suppose smaller and faster benchmark is better to others looking for
>> it.
>> I already stopped the azure instance.
>> [...]
>> There are no maxrss difference in "smaller existing examples"?
>> [...]
>> I want to investigate RAM usage, without any swapping.
>
> Running further trials indicate that the problem actually is related to
> swapping. If I reduce the model size in the benchmark slightly so that
> everything fits into the main memory, the problem disappears. Only when
> the memory usage exceeds the 32GB that I have, Python 3.6 will acquire
> way more memory (from the swap) than Python 3.5.
>
> Jan
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Could you add table comparing time benchmarks when memory is bigger?
(if your hypothesis is true and memory measurement tools are right
than time difference has to be huge)

Did you compare "pip list" results? There could be more differences in
your environments (not only python version). For example different
numpy versions or some missing packages could change game.

I tried to search "except.*ImportError" in your repository, but I am
not sure that it could change it significantly...

( https://github.com/ctn-archive/gosmann-frontiers2017/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=ImportError&type=

This one seems suspitious - sparse matrix class could be game changer

            from scipy.sparse import bsr_matrix
            assert bsr_matrix
        except (ValueError, ImportError):
            return False

)


This one doesn't seems suspicious to me (but who knows?):

    try:
        import faulthandler
        faulthandler.enable()
    except:
        pass

PL.


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Thu Mar 30 08:54:37 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 23:54:37 +1100
Subject: Python under PowerShell adds characters
References: <e5b97fc1-0650-441c-b8b3-498626b41cc5@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1avoniCaPc+F5xNL0x66vOBt42qKqc=DUnKH42-Mq2G7mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.122.1490808526.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <3a3a93ad-f642-48ce-adbc-3cdaa1739987@googlegroups.com>
 <CACL+1atd+JASqHkGfo1BfNZwE5iWfH3be68Hf51Bphig33fq+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.125.1490811635.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpb799s1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrpO9v27o3VCk7o6-wwHiUkCD2Fw8zeMQFwNzwgzafgng@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.128.1490815751.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <87o9wj986r.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58dc4e04$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87inmr8k03.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <58dc923c$0$2751$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
 <87efxf8gkt.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <58dd000f$0$1621$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 04:43 pm, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:
> 
>> On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 07:29:48 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>> I'd expect not having to deal with Unicode decoding exceptions with
>>> arbitrary input.
>>
>> That's just silly. If you have *arbitrary* bytes, not all
>> byte-sequences are valid Unicode, so you have to expect decoding
>> exceptions, if you're processing text.
> 
> The input is not in my control, and bailing out may not be an option:


You have to deal with bad input *somehow*. You can't just say it will never
happen. If bailing out is not an option, then perhaps the solution is not
to read stdin as Unicode text, if there's a chance that it actually doesn't
contain Unicode text. Otherwise, you have to deal with any errors.

("Deal with" can include the case of not dealing with them at all, and just
letting your script raise an exception.)



>    $ echo $'aa\n\xdd\naa' | grep aa
>    aa
>    aa
>    $ echo $'\xdd' | python2 -c 'import sys; sys.stdin.read(1)'
>    $ echo $'\xdd' | python3 -c 'import sys; sys.stdin.read(1)'
>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>      File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
>      File "/usr/lib64/python3.5/codecs.py", line 321, in decode
>        (result, consumed) = self._buffer_decode(data, self.errors, final)
>    UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xdd in position 0:
>     invalid continuation byte

As I said, what did you expect? You choose to read from stdin as Unicode
text, then fed it something that wasn't Unicode text. That's no different
from expecting to read a file name, then passing an ASCII NUL byte.
Something is going to break, somewhere, so you have to deal with it.

I'm not sure if there are better ways, but one way of dealing with this is
to bypass the text layer and read from the raw byte-oriented stream:

[steve at ando ~]$ echo $'\xdd' | python3 -c 'import sys;
print(sys.stdin.buffer.read(1))'
b'\xdd'


You have a choice. The default choice is aimed at the most-common use-case,
which is that input will be text, but its not the only choice.



-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 09:25:47 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 15:25:47 +0200
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqDU1Wr4y0G=BmYCjEdKLC0_Ch-fNoM2cOykX1vB5B-5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.38.1490547441.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58d80413$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAE6NSRDpdadqORG1w0529bvvw_Gkoau8xTga3LYS=LfGCmXuqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmojKPE3d4y5YEJJuGer174Yv0ZcobJGOp8rmYgYYYefbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.57.1490558002.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <626fc6cf-0cf9-4efa-a3ff-f9ca2ddcb7fd@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmqDU1Wr4y0G=BmYCjEdKLC0_Ch-fNoM2cOykX1vB5B-5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRBFoEtNbDuXYeM2oKjTxVPVYpy0tB_pYtCwmUM=0Fy-iQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 30 March 2017 at 07:43, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 3:21 PM, Rick Johnson
> <rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 2:53:49 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 6:25 AM, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > On 26 March 2017 at 20:10, Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>> >> On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 03:57 am, Mikhail V wrote:
>>

>>> """
>>> I, the undersigned, acknowledge that my program is
>>> intentionally excluding everyone who does not fit the
>>> following requirements: [choose all applicable]
>>>
>>> [ ] Speaks English exclusively
>>
>> Of course, your comment presupposing that every programmer
>> is fluent in every natural language. Which is not only
>> impractical, it's impossible.
>
> Nope. I can't speak Mandarin, but I can make absolutely sure that all
> my programs can accept Chinese characters. A friend of mine sent me an
> audio file with a name that included some Chinese, and I was able to
> handle it no problem.
>

Naming files is another point. Generally if I can't speak Mandarin,
I have no right to make support for it since I know nothing about this
language nor do I know their symbols.

>>> [ ] Uses no diacritical marks
>>
>> Why is it my responsibiliy to encode my text with
>> pronuciation tutorials? Are we adults here or what?
>>
>>> [ ] Writes all text top-to-bottom, left-to-right
>>
>> Not my problem. Learn the King's English or go wait for
>> extinction to arrive.
>
> And these two cement your parochialism thoroughly in everyone's minds.
> "Pronunciation tutorials", eh? Sure. Tell that to everyone who speaks
> Spanish, Turkish, Norwegian, German, or Vietnamese, all of which use
> diacritical marks to distinguish between letters. English is the weird
> language in that it uses letter pairs instead of adorned letters (eg
> "ch" and "sh" instead of "?" and "?").

Because "Pronunciation tutorials" is one of rare excuses to use those
special characters at all. Now do you know how many phonetical
systems linguist have invented over past 200 years? Will you find
all them in Unicode? And why you need them today, if you can
learn pronunciation by audio tutorials?

And letter pair usage is not for fun there, I think we've discussed this
some time ago on python-ideas, it is merely a political problem,
since every 'king' in each land suddenly thinks that he is a genius
typographer and adds few custom characters to Latin after he realizes
that there is no sense in forcing everyone to use some outdated system,
or even rolls his own bizzare system (e.g. Hangul).

>> What don't you add these:
>>
>> [ ] Has the ability to read and comprehend at a high
>>     school level.
>> [ ] Has functioning visual receptors.
>> [ ] Has a functioning brain.
>> [ ] Is not currently in a vegetative state
>
> Nah. If I did, I'd have to say "[ ] Is not trolling python-list" as well.

Call me a bigot, but I would say:
[x]  people, become adult finally and stop playing with your funny
hieroglyphs, use Latin set, and concentrate on real problems.

If I produce an arcade game or an IDE, would it lose much if
I don't include Unicode support? I personally would not do it
even in the fear of punishment.


Mikhail


From steve+python at pearwood.info  Thu Mar 30 10:14:41 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 01:14:41 +1100
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.38.1490547441.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58d80413$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAE6NSRDpdadqORG1w0529bvvw_Gkoau8xTga3LYS=LfGCmXuqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmojKPE3d4y5YEJJuGer174Yv0ZcobJGOp8rmYgYYYefbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.57.1490558002.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <626fc6cf-0cf9-4efa-a3ff-f9ca2ddcb7fd@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <58dd12d2$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 03:21 pm, Rick Johnson wrote:

> On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 2:53:49 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 6:25 AM, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On 26 March 2017 at 20:10, Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info>
>> > wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 03:57 am, Mikhail V wrote:
> 
>> I generally find that when people say that Unicode doesn't
>> solve their problems and they need to roll their own, it's
>> usually one of two possibilities:  1) "Their problems" are
>> all about simplicity. They don't want to have to deal with
>> all the complexities of real-world text, so they
>> arbitrarily restrict things.
> 
> There are only so many hours in the day Chris. Not every
> progammer has the time to cater to every selfish desire of
> every potential client.

Oh, you're one of *those* coders. The ones who believe that if they
personally don't need something, nobody needs it.

Listen, I'm 100% in favour of the open source model. I think that coders who
scratch their own itch is a great way to produce some really fantastic
software. Look at the Linux kernel, and think about how that has evolved
from Linus Torvalds scratching his own itch.

It can also produce some real garbage too, usually from the kind of coder
whose answer to everything is "you don't need to do that".

But whatever, its a free country. If you don't want to support a subset of
your potential users, or customers, that's entirely up to you.

The honest truth is that most software ends up languishing in obscurity,
only used by a relative handful of people, so its quite unlikely that
you'll every have any users wanting support for Old Persian or Ogham.

But if you have any users at all, there's a good chance they'll want to
write their name correctly even if they are called Z?e, or include the
trademarked name of their Awesome? product, or write the name of that hot
new metal band TH??SH?R, or use emoji, or to refer to ? and ?F
temperatures.

You might call it "selfish" for somebody to want to spell their name
correctly, or write in their native language, but selfish or not if you
don't give your users the features they want, they are unlikely to use your
software. Outside of the Democratic People's Republic of Trumpistan, the
world is full of about seven billion people who don't have any interest in
your ASCII-only software. It's not 1970 any more, the world is connected.

And the brilliant thing about Unicode is that for a little bit of effort you
can support Z?e and her French girlfriends, and that Swedish metal band
with the umlauts, and the President's Russian backers, and once you've done
that, you get at least partial support for Hebrew and Chinese and Korean
and Vietnamese and a dozen different Indian languages, and even Old Persian
and Ogham, FOR FREE.

So if you're wanting to create "the best product you can", why *wouldn't*
you use Unicode?


> You try to create the best product you can, 
> but at the end of the process, there will always be 
> someone (or a group of someones) who are unhappy with the
> result.


[...]
>> [ ] Speaks English exclusively
> 
> Of course, your comment presupposing that every programmer
> is fluent in every natural language. Which is not only
> impractical, it's impossible.

Don't be silly. You don't have to be fluent in a language in order for your
program to support users who are. All you have to do is not stop them from
using their own native language by forcing them to use ASCII and nothing
but ASCII.

Of course, if you want to *localise* your UI to their language, then you
need somebody to translate error messages, menus, window titles, etc. I'll
grant that's not always an easy job.

But aren't you lucky, you speak one of a handful of lingua francas in the
world, so the chances are your users will be pathetically grateful if all
you do is let them type in their own language. Actual UI localisation is a
bonus.


>> [ ] Uses no diacritical marks
> 
> Why is it my responsibiliy to encode my text with
> pronuciation tutorials? Are we adults here or what?

Now you're just being absurd. Supporting diacritics doesn't mean you are
responsible for teaching your users what they're for. They already know.
That's why they want to use them.

Diacritics are for:

- distinguishing between words which look the same, but have 
  different pronunciation;

- distinguishing between different letters of the alphabet, like 
  dotted-i and dotless-? (or ? and ?-with-a-dot, if you prefer), 
  or a and ?;

- distinguishing between words which look and sound the same but
  mean something different;

- and making band names look ???? and annoy old fuddy-duddies.


>> [ ] Writes all text top-to-bottom, left-to-right
> 
> Not my problem. Learn the King's English or go wait for
> extinction to arrive.

Which king?

Harald V speaks Norwegian, Felipe VI speaks Spanish, Hamad bin Isa speaks
whatever they speak in Bahrain (probably Arabic), Norodom Sihamoni speaks
Cambodian, Vajiralongkorn speaks Thai, Mswati III speaks Swazi, Abdullah II
speaks Jordanian (Arabic?), Willem-Alexander speaks Dutch, Salman bin
Abdul'aziz speaks Arabic. I've probably missed a few other kings.

When extinction arrives, speaking English isn't going to hold it at bay. If
anything, English speakers (or at least, *American* speakers) are likely to
be the ones bringing it on.




-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From steve+python at pearwood.info  Thu Mar 30 10:16:48 2017
From: steve+python at pearwood.info (Steve D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 01:16:48 +1100
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.38.1490547441.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58d80413$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAE6NSRDpdadqORG1w0529bvvw_Gkoau8xTga3LYS=LfGCmXuqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmojKPE3d4y5YEJJuGer174Yv0ZcobJGOp8rmYgYYYefbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.57.1490558002.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <626fc6cf-0cf9-4efa-a3ff-f9ca2ddcb7fd@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmqDU1Wr4y0G=BmYCjEdKLC0_Ch-fNoM2cOykX1vB5B-5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRBFoEtNbDuXYeM2oKjTxVPVYpy0tB_pYtCwmUM=0Fy-iQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.142.1490880357.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <58dd1350$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 12:25 am, Mikhail V wrote:

> Call me a bigot

Okay. You're a bigot.


-- 
Steve
?Cheer up,? they said, ?things could be worse.? So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 10:59:18 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 01:59:18 +1100
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <58dd1350$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.38.1490547441.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58d80413$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAE6NSRDpdadqORG1w0529bvvw_Gkoau8xTga3LYS=LfGCmXuqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmojKPE3d4y5YEJJuGer174Yv0ZcobJGOp8rmYgYYYefbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.57.1490558002.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <626fc6cf-0cf9-4efa-a3ff-f9ca2ddcb7fd@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmqDU1Wr4y0G=BmYCjEdKLC0_Ch-fNoM2cOykX1vB5B-5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRBFoEtNbDuXYeM2oKjTxVPVYpy0tB_pYtCwmUM=0Fy-iQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.142.1490880357.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58dd1350$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr+YtGoODhjgCLmFoQ4cm=6jbqiXLVzAgT-51VMNeMTvw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 1:16 AM, Steve D'Aprano
<steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 12:25 am, Mikhail V wrote:
>
>> Call me a bigot
>
> Okay. You're a bigot.

+1 QOTD

ChrisA


From saxri89 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 11:06:48 2017
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 08:06:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: django authentication multi upload files
Message-ID: <02b0d23a-3c7e-411b-9065-ecc4618d987a@googlegroups.com>

I have create I simple Django auth project and I need to add the user to can upload some images. multi upload images from internet
views.py
from django.shortcuts import render
from django.http import HttpResponse

def Form(request):
    return render(request, "index/form.html", {})

def Upload(request):
    for count, x in enumerate(request.FILES.getlist("files")):
        def process(f):
            with open('/Users/Michel/django_1.8/projects/upload/media/file_' + str(count), 'wb+') as destination:
                for chunk in f.chunks():
                    destination.write(chunk)
        process(x)
    return HttpResponse("File(s) uploaded!")
but how to define that to multi upload images in specific unique folder for any user. first I use login_required and in destination I use user_directory_path. But how to define the code in the views.py to work with authentication per user. for example for user_1 upload images in your folder for user_1 in folder for user_2.
medels.py
def user_directory_path(instance, filename):
    return 'user_{0}/{1}'.format(instance.user.id, filename)

class MyModel(models.Model):
    user = models.ForeignKey(User, unique=True)
    upload = models.ImageField(upload_to=user_directory_path)


From saxri89 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 11:07:31 2017
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 08:07:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: add processing images in the model.py using django
Message-ID: <489dcfdd-398a-4517-9819-3639794451a2@googlegroups.com>

want to create a simple image processing using Django. my tasks is easy I have some user a simple model and that user can upload images in my project using html form or django form and then that images saves to upload_to='mypath' in upload from my model. but I have some questions :
I have a simple image processing in my views.py if the processing complete success then create new image and I want that image to add in the upload from my model .
how to do that in Django ?
models.py
class MyModel(models.Model):
    user = models.ForeignKey(User)
    upload = models.ImageField(upload_to='mypath/personal/folder/per/user')
views.py
def index(request):
    form = ImageUploadForm(request.POST or None, request.FILES or None)
    if request.method == "POST" and form.is_valid():
        image_file = request.FILES['image'].read()
        '''
        image processing new image
        '''


        return render_to_response("blog/success.html", {"new image":new image})
    return render_to_response('blog/images.html', {'form': form}, RequestContext(request))


From torriem at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 11:36:39 2017
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 09:36:39 -0600
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <58dd12d2$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.38.1490547441.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58d80413$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAE6NSRDpdadqORG1w0529bvvw_Gkoau8xTga3LYS=LfGCmXuqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmojKPE3d4y5YEJJuGer174Yv0ZcobJGOp8rmYgYYYefbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.57.1490558002.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <626fc6cf-0cf9-4efa-a3ff-f9ca2ddcb7fd@googlegroups.com>
 <58dd12d2$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <6641a3fa-9189-973a-a553-d4428cf5d82f@gmail.com>

On 03/30/2017 08:14 AM, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> Why is it my responsibiliy to encode my text with
>> pronuciation tutorials? Are we adults here or what?
>
> Now you're just being absurd. 

Ahh yes, good old RR with his reductio ad absurdum fallacies when he's
lost the argument.


From mikhailwas at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 11:57:12 2017
From: mikhailwas at gmail.com (Mikhail V)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 17:57:12 +0200
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <58dd12d2$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.38.1490547441.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58d80413$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAE6NSRDpdadqORG1w0529bvvw_Gkoau8xTga3LYS=LfGCmXuqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmojKPE3d4y5YEJJuGer174Yv0ZcobJGOp8rmYgYYYefbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.57.1490558002.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <626fc6cf-0cf9-4efa-a3ff-f9ca2ddcb7fd@googlegroups.com>
 <58dd12d2$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6NSRBUqCCKHb_V+A6t3ZuUD2h2ZFqWT2ZgpnORRuPx8VzDkg@mail.gmail.com>

On 30 March 2017 at 16:14, Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 03:21 pm, Rick Johnson wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 2:53:49 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 6:25 AM, Mikhail V <mikhailwas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > On 26 March 2017 at 20:10, Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info>
>>> > wrote:

>>> [ ] Uses no diacritical marks
>>
>> Why is it my responsibiliy to encode my text with
>> pronuciation tutorials? Are we adults here or what?
>
> Now you're just being absurd. Supporting diacritics doesn't mean you are
> responsible for teaching your users what they're for. They already know.
> That's why they want to use them.
>
> Diacritics are for:
>
> - distinguishing between words which look the same, but have
>   different pronunciation;
>
> - distinguishing between different letters of the alphabet, like
>   dotted-i and dotless-? (or ? and ?-with-a-dot, if you prefer),
>   or a and ?;
>
> - distinguishing between words which look and sound the same but
>   mean something different;
>
> - and making band names look ???? and annoy old fuddy-duddies.
>

Steve, it is not bad to want to spell your name using spelling which
was taught you in the school. But it is bad to stay in illusion that there
is something good in using accents. As said it _is_ selfish to force
people to use e.g. umlauts and noun Capitalisations in German.
It is an big obstacle for reading and burdle for typing.
Initially it has nothing to do with people's choice, it is politics only.
I can speak and write German fluently, so I know how much
better would it be without those odd spelling rules.

So don't mix the spoken language and writing system - spoken
language will never be extinct, but most writing systems will be obsolete
and should be obsolete (you can call me bigot again ;-)

Some other interesting aspects: if I localise a software in Russian
language and use Cyrillic letters, english speakers will not be able
to read _anything_, and if I'll use Latin letters instead, then
non-russian users
will be at least able to read something, so if you know some Russian
spoken language it will be much more help for you.

Concrete software example - lets say I make an IDE.
It is far more important to give the users mechanisms to customize
the glyphs (e.g. edit math signs) than supporting Unicode.
And therefore it is much more important to make those font
format definitions transparent, non-bloated and easily editable.
Where is it all?


Mikhail


From rhodri at kynesim.co.uk  Thu Mar 30 12:10:19 2017
From: rhodri at kynesim.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 17:10:19 +0100
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <CAE6NSRBUqCCKHb_V+A6t3ZuUD2h2ZFqWT2ZgpnORRuPx8VzDkg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.38.1490547441.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58d80413$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAE6NSRDpdadqORG1w0529bvvw_Gkoau8xTga3LYS=LfGCmXuqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmojKPE3d4y5YEJJuGer174Yv0ZcobJGOp8rmYgYYYefbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.57.1490558002.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <626fc6cf-0cf9-4efa-a3ff-f9ca2ddcb7fd@googlegroups.com>
 <58dd12d2$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAE6NSRBUqCCKHb_V+A6t3ZuUD2h2ZFqWT2ZgpnORRuPx8VzDkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <59128b80-0398-4100-411d-73184ed787c0@kynesim.co.uk>

On 30/03/17 16:57, Mikhail V wrote:
> Steve, it is not bad to want to spell your name using spelling which
> was taught you in the school. But it is bad to stay in illusion that there
> is something good in using accents.

*plonk*

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd


From songofacandy at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 13:34:33 2017
From: songofacandy at gmail.com (INADA Naoki)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 02:34:33 +0900
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <CAEfz+TzcbB4+sQJGbaTfyxdSVKTmFv=B7-jZCsBOytDzn2sUcg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <EEF50688-64BD-42C1-8B13-612F182C5D7C@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TyLt-1_2k-nneEtawiPgua-=1MZ5iR0XUoxCJcwx3RBRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <83C9F43F-1716-4956-AB08-742B300186A8@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+Tw8_6Qs3xfwyu-Xt2tAh7yTH-EYiTrgCpYWr7qaNWXmxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E7F340A2-9667-4ABC-963E-E8EA336CD830@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TzcbB4+sQJGbaTfyxdSVKTmFv=B7-jZCsBOytDzn2sUcg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEfz+TzwMjWE5=XEpvORiP0UJdt6tG1Nvuk+G5_jG-GKd6u_Vw@mail.gmail.com>

I reproduced the issue.
This is very usual, memory usage issue.  Slashing is just a result of
large memory usage.

After 1st pass of optimization, RAM usage is 20GB+ on Python 3.5 and
30GB on Python 3.6.
And Python 3.6 starts slashing in 2nd optimization pass.

I enabled tracemalloc while 1st pass.  Results is end of this mail.
It seems frozenset() cause regression, but I'm not sure yet.
I don't know what is contents of frozenset yet.  (I know almost
nothing about this application).

Jan, do you know about what this is?
Could you make script which just runs `transitive_closure(edges)` with
edges similar to
`log_reduction.py spaun`?

I'll dig into it later, maybe next week.

---
Python 3.6.1
1191896 memory blocks: 22086104.2 KiB
  File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
line 85
    reachables[vertex] = frozenset(reachables[vertex])
  File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
line 410
    self.dependents = transitive_closure(self.dg.forward)
602986 memory blocks: 51819.1 KiB
  File "<string>", line 14
  File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
line 634
    first_view=None, v_offset=0, v_size=0, v_base=None)

Python 3.5.3
1166804 memory blocks: 11116407.0 KiB
  File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
line 85
    reachables[vertex] = frozenset(reachables[vertex])
  File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
line 410
    self.dependents = transitive_closure(self.dg.forward)
602989 memory blocks: 51819.3 KiB
  File "<string>", line 14
  File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
line 634
    first_view=None, v_offset=0, v_size=0, v_base=None)


From songofacandy at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 14:04:15 2017
From: songofacandy at gmail.com (INADA Naoki)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 03:04:15 +0900
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <CAEfz+TzwMjWE5=XEpvORiP0UJdt6tG1Nvuk+G5_jG-GKd6u_Vw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <EEF50688-64BD-42C1-8B13-612F182C5D7C@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TyLt-1_2k-nneEtawiPgua-=1MZ5iR0XUoxCJcwx3RBRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <83C9F43F-1716-4956-AB08-742B300186A8@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+Tw8_6Qs3xfwyu-Xt2tAh7yTH-EYiTrgCpYWr7qaNWXmxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E7F340A2-9667-4ABC-963E-E8EA336CD830@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TzcbB4+sQJGbaTfyxdSVKTmFv=B7-jZCsBOytDzn2sUcg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+TzwMjWE5=XEpvORiP0UJdt6tG1Nvuk+G5_jG-GKd6u_Vw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEfz+Tx3NnxCP5+uff7btnjA=+L6X-GQ+0p2g=ARht=U5ALXbw@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe, this commit make this regression.

https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/4897300276d870f99459c82b937f0ac22450f0b6

Old:
minused = (so->used + other->used)*2  (L619)

New:
minused = so->used + other->used  (L620)
minused = (minused > 50000) ? minused * 2 : minused * 4;  (L293)

So size of small set is doubled.

$ /usr/bin/python3
Python 3.5.2+ (default, Sep 22 2016, 12:18:14)
[GCC 6.2.0 20160927] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> s = set(range(10))
>>> sys.getsizeof(frozenset(s))
736
>>>

$ python3
Python 3.6.0 (default, Dec 30 2016, 20:49:54)
[GCC 6.2.0 20161005] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import  sys
>>> s = set(range(10))
>>> sys.getsizeof(frozenset(s))
1248
>>>



On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 2:34 AM, INADA Naoki <songofacandy at gmail.com> wrote:
> I reproduced the issue.
> This is very usual, memory usage issue.  Slashing is just a result of
> large memory usage.
>
> After 1st pass of optimization, RAM usage is 20GB+ on Python 3.5 and
> 30GB on Python 3.6.
> And Python 3.6 starts slashing in 2nd optimization pass.
>
> I enabled tracemalloc while 1st pass.  Results is end of this mail.
> It seems frozenset() cause regression, but I'm not sure yet.
> I don't know what is contents of frozenset yet.  (I know almost
> nothing about this application).
>
> Jan, do you know about what this is?
> Could you make script which just runs `transitive_closure(edges)` with
> edges similar to
> `log_reduction.py spaun`?
>
> I'll dig into it later, maybe next week.
>
> ---
> Python 3.6.1
> 1191896 memory blocks: 22086104.2 KiB
>   File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
> line 85
>     reachables[vertex] = frozenset(reachables[vertex])
>   File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
> line 410
>     self.dependents = transitive_closure(self.dg.forward)
> 602986 memory blocks: 51819.1 KiB
>   File "<string>", line 14
>   File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
> line 634
>     first_view=None, v_offset=0, v_size=0, v_base=None)
>
> Python 3.5.3
> 1166804 memory blocks: 11116407.0 KiB
>   File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
> line 85
>     reachables[vertex] = frozenset(reachables[vertex])
>   File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
> line 410
>     self.dependents = transitive_closure(self.dg.forward)
> 602989 memory blocks: 51819.3 KiB
>   File "<string>", line 14
>   File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
> line 634
>     first_view=None, v_offset=0, v_size=0, v_base=None)


From songofacandy at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 14:09:55 2017
From: songofacandy at gmail.com (INADA Naoki)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 03:09:55 +0900
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <CAEfz+Tx3NnxCP5+uff7btnjA=+L6X-GQ+0p2g=ARht=U5ALXbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <EEF50688-64BD-42C1-8B13-612F182C5D7C@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TyLt-1_2k-nneEtawiPgua-=1MZ5iR0XUoxCJcwx3RBRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <83C9F43F-1716-4956-AB08-742B300186A8@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+Tw8_6Qs3xfwyu-Xt2tAh7yTH-EYiTrgCpYWr7qaNWXmxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E7F340A2-9667-4ABC-963E-E8EA336CD830@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TzcbB4+sQJGbaTfyxdSVKTmFv=B7-jZCsBOytDzn2sUcg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+TzwMjWE5=XEpvORiP0UJdt6tG1Nvuk+G5_jG-GKd6u_Vw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+Tx3NnxCP5+uff7btnjA=+L6X-GQ+0p2g=ARht=U5ALXbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEfz+Tyjc+8mf2NLoRqAz3bCopnmg44tK7FvpZsxCVdyJnYdVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Filed an issue: https://bugs.python.org/issue29949

Thanks for your report, Jan.

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 3:04 AM, INADA Naoki <songofacandy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe, this commit make this regression.
>
> https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/4897300276d870f99459c82b937f0ac22450f0b6
>
> Old:
> minused = (so->used + other->used)*2  (L619)
>
> New:
> minused = so->used + other->used  (L620)
> minused = (minused > 50000) ? minused * 2 : minused * 4;  (L293)
>
> So size of small set is doubled.
>
> $ /usr/bin/python3
> Python 3.5.2+ (default, Sep 22 2016, 12:18:14)
> [GCC 6.2.0 20160927] on linux
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import sys
>>>> s = set(range(10))
>>>> sys.getsizeof(frozenset(s))
> 736
>>>>
>
> $ python3
> Python 3.6.0 (default, Dec 30 2016, 20:49:54)
> [GCC 6.2.0 20161005] on linux
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import  sys
>>>> s = set(range(10))
>>>> sys.getsizeof(frozenset(s))
> 1248
>>>>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 2:34 AM, INADA Naoki <songofacandy at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I reproduced the issue.
>> This is very usual, memory usage issue.  Slashing is just a result of
>> large memory usage.
>>
>> After 1st pass of optimization, RAM usage is 20GB+ on Python 3.5 and
>> 30GB on Python 3.6.
>> And Python 3.6 starts slashing in 2nd optimization pass.
>>
>> I enabled tracemalloc while 1st pass.  Results is end of this mail.
>> It seems frozenset() cause regression, but I'm not sure yet.
>> I don't know what is contents of frozenset yet.  (I know almost
>> nothing about this application).
>>
>> Jan, do you know about what this is?
>> Could you make script which just runs `transitive_closure(edges)` with
>> edges similar to
>> `log_reduction.py spaun`?
>>
>> I'll dig into it later, maybe next week.
>>
>> ---
>> Python 3.6.1
>> 1191896 memory blocks: 22086104.2 KiB
>>   File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
>> line 85
>>     reachables[vertex] = frozenset(reachables[vertex])
>>   File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
>> line 410
>>     self.dependents = transitive_closure(self.dg.forward)
>> 602986 memory blocks: 51819.1 KiB
>>   File "<string>", line 14
>>   File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
>> line 634
>>     first_view=None, v_offset=0, v_size=0, v_base=None)
>>
>> Python 3.5.3
>> 1166804 memory blocks: 11116407.0 KiB
>>   File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
>> line 85
>>     reachables[vertex] = frozenset(reachables[vertex])
>>   File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
>> line 410
>>     self.dependents = transitive_closure(self.dg.forward)
>> 602989 memory blocks: 51819.3 KiB
>>   File "<string>", line 14
>>   File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
>> line 634
>>     first_view=None, v_offset=0, v_size=0, v_base=None)


From jan at hyper-world.de  Thu Mar 30 14:14:37 2017
From: jan at hyper-world.de (Jan Gosmann)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 14:14:37 -0400
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <CAEfz+Tyjc+8mf2NLoRqAz3bCopnmg44tK7FvpZsxCVdyJnYdVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <EEF50688-64BD-42C1-8B13-612F182C5D7C@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TyLt-1_2k-nneEtawiPgua-=1MZ5iR0XUoxCJcwx3RBRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <83C9F43F-1716-4956-AB08-742B300186A8@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+Tw8_6Qs3xfwyu-Xt2tAh7yTH-EYiTrgCpYWr7qaNWXmxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E7F340A2-9667-4ABC-963E-E8EA336CD830@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TzcbB4+sQJGbaTfyxdSVKTmFv=B7-jZCsBOytDzn2sUcg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+TzwMjWE5=XEpvORiP0UJdt6tG1Nvuk+G5_jG-GKd6u_Vw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+Tx3NnxCP5+uff7btnjA=+L6X-GQ+0p2g=ARht=U5ALXbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+Tyjc+8mf2NLoRqAz3bCopnmg44tK7FvpZsxCVdyJnYdVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6e398b4c-5758-69e2-f966-6b88717e67ae@hyper-world.de>

That's great news. I'm busy with other things right now, but will look 
into your findings in more detail later.


On 03/30/2017 02:09 PM, INADA Naoki wrote:
> Filed an issue: https://bugs.python.org/issue29949
>
> Thanks for your report, Jan.
>
> On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 3:04 AM, INADA Naoki <songofacandy at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Maybe, this commit make this regression.
>>
>> https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/4897300276d870f99459c82b937f0ac22450f0b6
>>
>> Old:
>> minused = (so->used + other->used)*2  (L619)
>>
>> New:
>> minused = so->used + other->used  (L620)
>> minused = (minused > 50000) ? minused * 2 : minused * 4;  (L293)
>>
>> So size of small set is doubled.
>>
>> $ /usr/bin/python3
>> Python 3.5.2+ (default, Sep 22 2016, 12:18:14)
>> [GCC 6.2.0 20160927] on linux
>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>>> import sys
>>>>> s = set(range(10))
>>>>> sys.getsizeof(frozenset(s))
>> 736
>> $ python3
>> Python 3.6.0 (default, Dec 30 2016, 20:49:54)
>> [GCC 6.2.0 20161005] on linux
>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>>> import  sys
>>>>> s = set(range(10))
>>>>> sys.getsizeof(frozenset(s))
>> 1248
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 2:34 AM, INADA Naoki <songofacandy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I reproduced the issue.
>>> This is very usual, memory usage issue.  Slashing is just a result of
>>> large memory usage.
>>>
>>> After 1st pass of optimization, RAM usage is 20GB+ on Python 3.5 and
>>> 30GB on Python 3.6.
>>> And Python 3.6 starts slashing in 2nd optimization pass.
>>>
>>> I enabled tracemalloc while 1st pass.  Results is end of this mail.
>>> It seems frozenset() cause regression, but I'm not sure yet.
>>> I don't know what is contents of frozenset yet.  (I know almost
>>> nothing about this application).
>>>
>>> Jan, do you know about what this is?
>>> Could you make script which just runs `transitive_closure(edges)` with
>>> edges similar to
>>> `log_reduction.py spaun`?
>>>
>>> I'll dig into it later, maybe next week.
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Python 3.6.1
>>> 1191896 memory blocks: 22086104.2 KiB
>>>    File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
>>> line 85
>>>      reachables[vertex] = frozenset(reachables[vertex])
>>>    File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
>>> line 410
>>>      self.dependents = transitive_closure(self.dg.forward)
>>> 602986 memory blocks: 51819.1 KiB
>>>    File "<string>", line 14
>>>    File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
>>> line 634
>>>      first_view=None, v_offset=0, v_size=0, v_base=None)
>>>
>>> Python 3.5.3
>>> 1166804 memory blocks: 11116407.0 KiB
>>>    File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
>>> line 85
>>>      reachables[vertex] = frozenset(reachables[vertex])
>>>    File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
>>> line 410
>>>      self.dependents = transitive_closure(self.dg.forward)
>>> 602989 memory blocks: 51819.3 KiB
>>>    File "<string>", line 14
>>>    File "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
>>> line 634
>>>      first_view=None, v_offset=0, v_size=0, v_base=None)



From songofacandy at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 14:19:12 2017
From: songofacandy at gmail.com (INADA Naoki)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 03:19:12 +0900
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <6e398b4c-5758-69e2-f966-6b88717e67ae@hyper-world.de>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <EEF50688-64BD-42C1-8B13-612F182C5D7C@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TyLt-1_2k-nneEtawiPgua-=1MZ5iR0XUoxCJcwx3RBRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <83C9F43F-1716-4956-AB08-742B300186A8@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+Tw8_6Qs3xfwyu-Xt2tAh7yTH-EYiTrgCpYWr7qaNWXmxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E7F340A2-9667-4ABC-963E-E8EA336CD830@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TzcbB4+sQJGbaTfyxdSVKTmFv=B7-jZCsBOytDzn2sUcg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+TzwMjWE5=XEpvORiP0UJdt6tG1Nvuk+G5_jG-GKd6u_Vw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+Tx3NnxCP5+uff7btnjA=+L6X-GQ+0p2g=ARht=U5ALXbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+Tyjc+8mf2NLoRqAz3bCopnmg44tK7FvpZsxCVdyJnYdVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <6e398b4c-5758-69e2-f966-6b88717e67ae@hyper-world.de>
Message-ID: <CAEfz+Two-_Q+2aeOiDnGLS1FWsMoFeFO-vWMD37ydwDVp39f8Q@mail.gmail.com>

FYI, this small patch may fix your issue:
https://gist.github.com/methane/8faf12621cdb2166019bbcee65987e99


From Ross.Boylan at ucsf.edu  Thu Mar 30 16:57:33 2017
From: Ross.Boylan at ucsf.edu (Boylan, Ross)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 20:57:33 +0000
Subject: error in syntax description for comprehensions?
Message-ID: <b6700742-97aa-4d28-9fbd-5ce872a010ed@EXHT05.net.ucsf.edu>

https://docs.python.org/3/reference/expressions.html#displays-for-lists-sets-and-dictionaries
describes the syntax for comprehensions as
comprehension ::=  expression comp_for
comp_for      ::=  [ASYNC] "for" target_list "in" or_test [comp_iter]
comp_iter     ::=  comp_for | comp_if
comp_if       ::=  "if" expression_nocond [comp_iter]

Is the comp_for missing an argument after "in"?
One has to follow the definition of or_test and its components, but I can't find anything that results to a single variable or expression.

Actually, I'm not sure what or_test would do there either with or  without an additional element following "in". 

Ross Boylan

From ned at nedbatchelder.com  Thu Mar 30 19:31:41 2017
From: ned at nedbatchelder.com (Ned Batchelder)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 16:31:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: error in syntax description for comprehensions?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1490907515.30184.python-list@python.org>
References: <b6700742-97aa-4d28-9fbd-5ce872a010ed@EXHT05.net.ucsf.edu>
 <mailman.0.1490907515.30184.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ef08efa8-43b2-490d-868d-5d7a3ff63be1@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 4:59:03 PM UTC-4, Boylan, Ross wrote:
> https://docs.python.org/3/reference/expressions.html#displays-for-lists-sets-and-dictionaries
> describes the syntax for comprehensions as
> comprehension ::=  expression comp_for
> comp_for      ::=  [ASYNC] "for" target_list "in" or_test [comp_iter]
> comp_iter     ::=  comp_for | comp_if
> comp_if       ::=  "if" expression_nocond [comp_iter]
> 
> Is the comp_for missing an argument after "in"?
> One has to follow the definition of or_test and its components, but I can't find anything that results to a single variable or expression.
> 
> Actually, I'm not sure what or_test would do there either with or  without an additional element following "in". 


Syntax grammars can be obtuse. An or_test can be an and_test, which
can be a not_test, which can be a comparison.  It continues from there.
The whole chain of "can be" is:

    or_test
    and_test
    not_test
    comparison
    or_expr
    xor_expr
    and_expr
    shift_expr
    a_expr
    m_expr
    u_expr
    power
    primary
    atom
    identifier

... and identifier is what you are looking for.

--Ned.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Mar 30 20:18:34 2017
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 01:18:34 +0100
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <CAEfz+Tx3NnxCP5+uff7btnjA=+L6X-GQ+0p2g=ARht=U5ALXbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <EEF50688-64BD-42C1-8B13-612F182C5D7C@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TyLt-1_2k-nneEtawiPgua-=1MZ5iR0XUoxCJcwx3RBRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <83C9F43F-1716-4956-AB08-742B300186A8@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+Tw8_6Qs3xfwyu-Xt2tAh7yTH-EYiTrgCpYWr7qaNWXmxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E7F340A2-9667-4ABC-963E-E8EA336CD830@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TzcbB4+sQJGbaTfyxdSVKTmFv=B7-jZCsBOytDzn2sUcg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+TzwMjWE5=XEpvORiP0UJdt6tG1Nvuk+G5_jG-GKd6u_Vw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+Tx3NnxCP5+uff7btnjA=+L6X-GQ+0p2g=ARht=U5ALXbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d948f990-908f-1dfb-991c-51271677309e@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2017-03-30 19:04, INADA Naoki wrote:
> Maybe, this commit make this regression.
>
> https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/4897300276d870f99459c82b937f0ac22450f0b6
>
> Old:
> minused = (so->used + other->used)*2  (L619)
>
> New:
> minused = so->used + other->used  (L620)
> minused = (minused > 50000) ? minused * 2 : minused * 4;  (L293)
>
> So size of small set is doubled.
>
> $ /usr/bin/python3
> Python 3.5.2+ (default, Sep 22 2016, 12:18:14)
> [GCC 6.2.0 20160927] on linux
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import sys
>>>> s = set(range(10))
>>>> sys.getsizeof(frozenset(s))
> 736
>>>>
>
> $ python3
> Python 3.6.0 (default, Dec 30 2016, 20:49:54)
> [GCC 6.2.0 20161005] on linux
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import  sys
>>>> s = set(range(10))
>>>> sys.getsizeof(frozenset(s))
> 1248
>>>>
Copying a small set _might_ double its memory usage.


Python 3.5.2 (v3.5.2:4def2a2901a5, Jun 25 2016, 22:18:55) [MSC v.1900 64 
bit (AMD64)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import sys
 >>> s = set(range(10))
 >>> sys.getsizeof(s)
736
 >>> sys.getsizeof(set(s))
736
 >>>
 >>> sys.getsizeof(set(set(s)))
736


Python 3.6.1 (v3.6.1:69c0db5, Mar 21 2017, 18:41:36) [MSC v.1900 64 bit 
(AMD64)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import sys
 >>> s = set(range(10))
 >>> sys.getsizeof(s)
736
 >>> sys.getsizeof(set(s))
1248
 >>>
 >>> sys.getsizeof(set(set(s)))
1248
 >>>



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Mar 30 20:43:21 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 20:43:21 -0400
Subject: error in syntax description for comprehensions?
In-Reply-To: <b6700742-97aa-4d28-9fbd-5ce872a010ed@EXHT05.net.ucsf.edu>
References: <b6700742-97aa-4d28-9fbd-5ce872a010ed@EXHT05.net.ucsf.edu>
Message-ID: <obk8n5$ot3$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 3/30/2017 4:57 PM, Boylan, Ross wrote:
> https://docs.python.org/3/reference/expressions.html#displays-for-lists-sets-and-dictionaries
> describes the syntax for comprehensions as
> comprehension ::=  expression comp_for
> comp_for      ::=  [ASYNC] "for" target_list "in" or_test [comp_iter]
> comp_iter     ::=  comp_for | comp_if
> comp_if       ::=  "if" expression_nocond [comp_iter]
>
> Is the comp_for missing an argument after "in"?

The or_test *is* the 'argument'.

> One has to follow the definition of or_test and its components,
 > but I can't find anything that results to a single variable
 > or expression.

An or_test *is* a single expression.  Like all python expressions, it 
evaluates to a python object.  In this case, the object is passed to 
iter() and so the object must be an iterable.

 >>> a, b = None, range(3)
 >>> a or b
range(0, 3)
 >>> for i in a or b: print(i)

0
1
2

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From pavol.lisy at gmail.com  Fri Mar 31 00:09:14 2017
From: pavol.lisy at gmail.com (Pavol Lisy)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 06:09:14 +0200
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <CAEfz+Tx3NnxCP5+uff7btnjA=+L6X-GQ+0p2g=ARht=U5ALXbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <EEF50688-64BD-42C1-8B13-612F182C5D7C@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TyLt-1_2k-nneEtawiPgua-=1MZ5iR0XUoxCJcwx3RBRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <83C9F43F-1716-4956-AB08-742B300186A8@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+Tw8_6Qs3xfwyu-Xt2tAh7yTH-EYiTrgCpYWr7qaNWXmxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E7F340A2-9667-4ABC-963E-E8EA336CD830@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TzcbB4+sQJGbaTfyxdSVKTmFv=B7-jZCsBOytDzn2sUcg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+TzwMjWE5=XEpvORiP0UJdt6tG1Nvuk+G5_jG-GKd6u_Vw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+Tx3NnxCP5+uff7btnjA=+L6X-GQ+0p2g=ARht=U5ALXbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABDEq2kX-BFdAfZ6BbBZVV1G27AqgE_5PALOdBkY4OfwpCJUrA@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/30/17, INADA Naoki <songofacandy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe, this commit make this regression.
>
> https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/4897300276d870f99459c82b937f0ac22450f0b6
>
> Old:
> minused = (so->used + other->used)*2  (L619)
>
> New:
> minused = so->used + other->used  (L620)
> minused = (minused > 50000) ? minused * 2 : minused * 4;  (L293)
>
> So size of small set is doubled.
>
> $ /usr/bin/python3
> Python 3.5.2+ (default, Sep 22 2016, 12:18:14)
> [GCC 6.2.0 20160927] on linux
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import sys
>>>> s = set(range(10))
>>>> sys.getsizeof(frozenset(s))
> 736
>>>>
>
> $ python3
> Python 3.6.0 (default, Dec 30 2016, 20:49:54)
> [GCC 6.2.0 20161005] on linux
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import  sys
>>>> s = set(range(10))
>>>> sys.getsizeof(frozenset(s))
> 1248
>>>>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 2:34 AM, INADA Naoki <songofacandy at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> I reproduced the issue.
>> This is very usual, memory usage issue.  Slashing is just a result of
>> large memory usage.
>>
>> After 1st pass of optimization, RAM usage is 20GB+ on Python 3.5 and
>> 30GB on Python 3.6.
>> And Python 3.6 starts slashing in 2nd optimization pass.
>>
>> I enabled tracemalloc while 1st pass.  Results is end of this mail.
>> It seems frozenset() cause regression, but I'm not sure yet.
>> I don't know what is contents of frozenset yet.  (I know almost
>> nothing about this application).
>>
>> Jan, do you know about what this is?
>> Could you make script which just runs `transitive_closure(edges)` with
>> edges similar to
>> `log_reduction.py spaun`?
>>
>> I'll dig into it later, maybe next week.
>>
>> ---
>> Python 3.6.1
>> 1191896 memory blocks: 22086104.2 KiB
>>   File
>> "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
>> line 85
>>     reachables[vertex] = frozenset(reachables[vertex])
>>   File
>> "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
>> line 410
>>     self.dependents = transitive_closure(self.dg.forward)
>> 602986 memory blocks: 51819.1 KiB
>>   File "<string>", line 14
>>   File
>> "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
>> line 634
>>     first_view=None, v_offset=0, v_size=0, v_base=None)
>>
>> Python 3.5.3
>> 1166804 memory blocks: 11116407.0 KiB
>>   File
>> "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
>> line 85
>>     reachables[vertex] = frozenset(reachables[vertex])
>>   File
>> "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
>> line 410
>>     self.dependents = transitive_closure(self.dg.forward)
>> 602989 memory blocks: 51819.3 KiB
>>   File "<string>", line 14
>>   File
>> "/home/inada-n/work/gosmann-frontiers2017/gosmann_frontiers2017/optimized/optimizer.py",
>> line 634
>>     first_view=None, v_offset=0, v_size=0, v_base=None)
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Interesting.

1. using set_table_resize with growing factor 2 or 4 doesn't seem to
be optimal for constructing (immutable) frozenset from set.

2. growth factor 2 could be too big too (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_array#Growth_factor
,https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/80ec8364f15857c405ef0ecb1e758c8fc6b332f7/Objects/listobject.c#L58
)

PL.


From lopium at gmail.com  Fri Mar 31 04:27:54 2017
From: lopium at gmail.com (Ricardo A Baila)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 01:27:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Spam user
Message-ID: <058a9744-44bf-4e6b-ae1d-28e1e348e60b@googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

Could someone remove wucbadruc at gmx.com from the group?

Thanks
Ricardo


From lopium at gmail.com  Fri Mar 31 04:31:14 2017
From: lopium at gmail.com (Ricardo A Baila)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 01:31:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Spam user
In-Reply-To: <058a9744-44bf-4e6b-ae1d-28e1e348e60b@googlegroups.com>
References: <058a9744-44bf-4e6b-ae1d-28e1e348e60b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7770d247-5ee7-4dd9-956f-13b3755db97a@googlegroups.com>

Le vendredi 31 mars 2017 10:28:08 UTC+2, Ricardo A Baila a ?crit?:
> Hi all,
> 
> Could someone remove wucbadruc at gmx.com from the group?
> 
> Thanks
> Ricardo

And johnnypoponny at gmx.com as well.

Didn't go deep on the issue but could it be @gmx.com the issue?

Or at least, as the message is always the same, couldn't admins filter it or something? 

It's getting to proportions in terms of frequency where it makes the group really unreadable.

Best,
Ricardo


From lele at metapensiero.it  Fri Mar 31 05:07:06 2017
From: lele at metapensiero.it (Lele Gaifax)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 11:07:06 +0200
Subject: Spam user
References: <058a9744-44bf-4e6b-ae1d-28e1e348e60b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87wpb5izlx.fsf@metapensiero.it>

Ricardo A Baila <lopium at gmail.com> writes:

> Could someone remove wucbadruc at gmx.com from the group?

Strange, I could not see such messages, neither in the newsgroup (gmane) nor
on the ML archives.

Are you sure you are not receiving those as private messages?

ciao, lele.
-- 
nickname: Lele Gaifax | Quando vivr? di quello che ho pensato ieri
real: Emanuele Gaifas | comincer? ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
lele at metapensiero.it  |                 -- Fortunato Depero, 1929.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Mar 31 05:22:52 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 05:22:52 -0400
Subject: Spam user
In-Reply-To: <87wpb5izlx.fsf@metapensiero.it>
References: <058a9744-44bf-4e6b-ae1d-28e1e348e60b@googlegroups.com>
 <87wpb5izlx.fsf@metapensiero.it>
Message-ID: <obl757$bdt$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 3/31/2017 5:07 AM, Lele Gaifax wrote:
> Ricardo A Baila <lopium at gmail.com> writes:

Are you reading through Google Groups?

>> Could someone remove wucbadruc at gmx.com from the group?

> Strange, I could not see such messages, neither in the newsgroup (gmane) nor
> on the ML archives.

If so, send your request to the Google Group admins,
who allow much spam filtered out by python.org.
And/or switch to reading the python.org list or the news.gmane.org 
newsgroup mirror.

> Are you sure you are not receiving those as private messages?

GG trash is more likely.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From ammammata at tiscalinet.it  Fri Mar 31 06:07:23 2017
From: ammammata at tiscalinet.it (Ammammata)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 10:07:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Spam user
References: <058a9744-44bf-4e6b-ae1d-28e1e348e60b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <XnsA7497B5475A58ammammatatiscalineti@148.251.67.112>

Il giorno Fri 31 Mar 2017 10:27:54a, *Ricardo A Baila* ha inviato su
comp.lang.python il messaggio
news:058a9744-44bf-4e6b-ae1d-28e1e348e60b at googlegroups.com. Vediamo cosa
ha scritto: 

> User-Agent: G2/1.0
> 
> Could someone remove wucbadruc at gmx.com from the group?
> 

you better switch to a decent newsreader and learn how to use filters ;)
g2 has no plonk list

-- 
/-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\
-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- - -=-
>>>>>  http://www.bb2002.it :)  <<<<<
........... [ al lavoro ] ...........


From zouyuheng1998 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 31 09:52:09 2017
From: zouyuheng1998 at gmail.com (Yuheng Zou)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 06:52:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Developing a Python JIT and have trouble
Message-ID: <bc1fc8ae-42cf-407e-a546-e2cc8e63a5b8@googlegroups.com>

I am building a Python JIT, so I want to change the interp->eval_frame to my own function.

I built a C++ library which contains EvalFrame function, and then use dlopen and dlsym to use it. It looks like this:

extern "C" PyObject *EvalFrame(PyFrameObject *f, int throwflag) {
    return _PyEval_EvalFrameDefault(f, throwflag);
}
I added following code to Python/pylifecycle.c at function _Py_InitializeEx_Private(Python version is 3.6.1):

void *pyjit = NULL;
pyjit = dlopen("../cmake-build-debug/libPubbon.dylib", 0);
if (pyjit != NULL) {
    interp->eval_frame = (_PyFrameEvalFunction)dlsym(pyjit, "EvalFrame");
    //interp->eval_frame = _PyEval_EvalFrameDefault;
} 
Then something strange happened. I used LLDB to trace the variables. When it ran at EvalFrame, the address of f pointer didn't change, but f->f_lineno changed.

Then when I ran python.exe, I got Segmentation Fault.

Why the address of the pointer didn't change, but the context change?

I am working on Mac OS X and Python 3.6.1. I want to know how to replace _PyEval_EvalFrameDefault in interp->eval_frame with my own function.


From duncan at invalid.invalid  Fri Mar 31 12:50:23 2017
From: duncan at invalid.invalid (duncan smith)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 17:50:23 +0100
Subject: table class - inheritance, delegation?
Message-ID: <kNvDA.144400$zC6.58870@fx29.iad>

Hello,
      I need to code up a table class, which will be based on numpy
arrays. Essentially it needs to behave like a numpy array, but with a
variable associated with each array dimension. It must (at least
partially) satisfy the API of an existing class. The main reason for the
new class is to avoid the creation of new axes and the transpositions
that were required for elementwise operations on instances of the
original class. So when summing across axes I will retain all the
dimensions. My inclination is to go for composition. e.g. (all following
code untested)


class Table(object):
    def __init__(self, values, variables):
        self.values = values # numpy array
        self.all_variables = variables
        self.var_ind_map = dict(zip(variables, range(len(variables))))

    @property
    def variables(self):
        return [v for dim, v in
                zip(self.values.shape, self.all_variables)
                if not dim == 1]


variables is required by the API. Most binary operators will behave
exactly as for numpy arrays. e.g.


    def __mul__(self, other):
        return self.__class__(self.values * other.values,
                              self.all_variables)


I can write a factory method to generate many of these, and maybe
another factory method for __neg__, __pos__, __abs__ etc. But I then
have to deal with __rsub__, __rdiv__ etc. and all I'm doing is emulating
the behaviour of numpy arrays. I also need to handle multipication /
division etc. by e.g. floats in exactly the same way as numpy.

What I can't immediately see is a clean way of doing this with
delegation. But I'm unsure that inheritance is the best way to go (the
class will be very lightweight compared to numpy arrays). Any advice
welcome. I'm currently using Python 2.7 (but will make the move to 3 at
some point). Cheers.

Duncan


From jan at hyper-world.de  Fri Mar 31 15:52:29 2017
From: jan at hyper-world.de (Jan Gosmann)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 15:52:29 -0400
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmo4aTwPmwZW0Xo_ZoAiRoYETB3XhdJTYuTrNzf5-eNFGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <EEF50688-64BD-42C1-8B13-612F182C5D7C@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TyLt-1_2k-nneEtawiPgua-=1MZ5iR0XUoxCJcwx3RBRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <83C9F43F-1716-4956-AB08-742B300186A8@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+Tw8_6Qs3xfwyu-Xt2tAh7yTH-EYiTrgCpYWr7qaNWXmxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E7F340A2-9667-4ABC-963E-E8EA336CD830@hyper-world.de>
 <mailman.131.1490818758.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58dc4d69$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <0D1A837A-FD65-4C50-AC81-FE97D7E42EDC@hyper-world.de>
 <mailman.134.1490836610.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <517fe120-4834-448d-887f-138e2422e54c@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmo4aTwPmwZW0Xo_ZoAiRoYETB3XhdJTYuTrNzf5-eNFGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <12fed4a5-72b4-37fa-7923-1144843dfcd2@hyper-world.de>

On 03/29/2017 11:31 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Rick Johnson
> <rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
>> [...]
>> Really? How could your clients not notice 60 GB of memory
>> usage unless they are running some kind of mad-dog insane
>> top-of-the-line hardware? (Got Benjamins???) Of course, in
>> the case they are not DARPA scientist supported by a
>> viturally unlimited supply of tax dollars provided by the
>> endless toils of American slave-bots, how could they ignore
>> the thrashing? o_O
> Did you read the project's README? This is a dramatic reduction from
> the normal memory usage of this kind of job. So, yes, they *are* going
> to have top-of-the-line hardware. If you're doing a job that normally
> would require 256GB of RAM, and instead of being able to run in 40GB,
> it needs 60GB, are you going to notice? You probably have 64GB or
> 128GB.
>
> ChrisA
Actually, it is not memory, but time improvements. Most people won't run 
models of the size of Spaun, so usually the memory requirements will be 
much lower

Jan


From jan at hyper-world.de  Fri Mar 31 17:01:05 2017
From: jan at hyper-world.de (Jan Gosmann)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 17:01:05 -0400
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <CAEfz+Two-_Q+2aeOiDnGLS1FWsMoFeFO-vWMD37ydwDVp39f8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <EEF50688-64BD-42C1-8B13-612F182C5D7C@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TyLt-1_2k-nneEtawiPgua-=1MZ5iR0XUoxCJcwx3RBRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <83C9F43F-1716-4956-AB08-742B300186A8@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+Tw8_6Qs3xfwyu-Xt2tAh7yTH-EYiTrgCpYWr7qaNWXmxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E7F340A2-9667-4ABC-963E-E8EA336CD830@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TzcbB4+sQJGbaTfyxdSVKTmFv=B7-jZCsBOytDzn2sUcg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+TzwMjWE5=XEpvORiP0UJdt6tG1Nvuk+G5_jG-GKd6u_Vw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+Tx3NnxCP5+uff7btnjA=+L6X-GQ+0p2g=ARht=U5ALXbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+Tyjc+8mf2NLoRqAz3bCopnmg44tK7FvpZsxCVdyJnYdVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <6e398b4c-5758-69e2-f966-6b88717e67ae@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+Two-_Q+2aeOiDnGLS1FWsMoFeFO-vWMD37ydwDVp39f8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7969c87f-0eed-5b64-6693-c7ff4b45537f@hyper-world.de>

On 03/30/2017 02:19 PM, INADA Naoki wrote:
> FYI, this small patch may fix your issue:
> https://gist.github.com/methane/8faf12621cdb2166019bbcee65987e99
I can verify that the patch fixes the issue for me.

Do you still need more information about the `transitive_closure` 
function and my usage of sets and frozensets? Or any other way I can be 
helpful in fixing this? (There are a few questions in this thread that I 
haven't answered so far, but as the problem seems to be identified it 
might not be worth spending time on that.)

Jan


From mrjean1 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 31 17:05:17 2017
From: mrjean1 at gmail.com (MrJean1)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 14:05:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1490919703.30184.python-list@python.org>
References: <B609B201-28FA-444A-88E3-3F82700B2309@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqEo+ew3E_296Km-f5oismy9objNATdDbSS3o+RaGLJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <60CBD113-61BD-4736-AFBB-963CF89D823D@hyper-world.de>
 <CAPTjJmqMBpE4waFEN_9bgG5gPXm6_AV-T2xKbJ22cJ+VFObneQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqu9tP1p_SPyGSPoQJqQokPLae6tDxbs-F53-QZu5tDsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <EEF50688-64BD-42C1-8B13-612F182C5D7C@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TyLt-1_2k-nneEtawiPgua-=1MZ5iR0XUoxCJcwx3RBRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <83C9F43F-1716-4956-AB08-742B300186A8@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+Tw8_6Qs3xfwyu-Xt2tAh7yTH-EYiTrgCpYWr7qaNWXmxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E7F340A2-9667-4ABC-963E-E8EA336CD830@hyper-world.de>
 <CAEfz+TzcbB4+sQJGbaTfyxdSVKTmFv=B7-jZCsBOytDzn2sUcg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+TzwMjWE5=XEpvORiP0UJdt6tG1Nvuk+G5_jG-GKd6u_Vw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEfz+Tx3NnxCP5+uff7btnjA=+L6X-GQ+0p2g=ARht=U5ALXbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <d948f990-908f-1dfb-991c-51271677309e@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.1.1490919703.30184.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ff5ac549-20d2-4418-aabe-b4ff8da05e86@googlegroups.com>

Similarly, on  macOS 10.12.3 Sierra:

% python3.5
Python 3.5.3 (v3.5.3:1880cb95a742, Jan 16 2017, 08:49:46) 
[GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> s = set(range(10))
>>> sys.getsizeof(s)
736
>>> sys.getsizeof(set(s))
736
>>> sys.getsizeof(set(set(s)))
736
>>>

% python3
Python 3.6.0 (v3.6.0:41df79263a11, Dec 22 2016, 17:23:13) 
[GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> s = set(range(10))
>>> sys.getsizeof(s)
736
>>> sys.getsizeof(set(s))
1248
>>> sys.getsizeof(set(set(s)))
1248
>>>

% python2
Python 2.7.13 (v2.7.13:a06454b1afa1, Dec 17 2016, 12:39:47) 
[GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> s = set(range(10))
>>> sys.getsizeof(s)
744
>>> sys.getsizeof(set(s))
744
>>> sys.getsizeof(set(set(s)))
744
>>> 


From 2019.cavanaughc at fpsedu.org  Fri Mar 31 19:12:48 2017
From: 2019.cavanaughc at fpsedu.org (2019.cavanaughc at fpsedu.org)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 16:12:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Program Error Help - Python 3.1
Message-ID: <dcb10baa-0fe8-4395-8f3d-f9a6acc4b4f5@googlegroups.com>

Hello I've been coding for about 1 or 2 months and i have encountered a problem with a 'while' statement. It keeps looping even when the statement is false, here is the code. The code is for a game that I'm making that resembles the Oregon Trial.

-Thanks for your help!




import random
deep = random.randint(1, 30)
width = random.randint(15, 50)
print("\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nYou have approched a river.")
answer8 = ""
while answer8 != ("1") or answer8 != ("2"):
    print("\nWhat would you like to do?")
    print("\t\t 1) Attempt to wade across the river")
    print("\t\t 2) Attempt to float across the river")
    print("\t\t 3) Find out more about the river.")
    answer8 = input("\nWhat is your choice? ")
    if answer8 == 3:
        print("\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThe river is", deep, "feet deep and", width, "feet long.")
        input("\n\nPress ENTER to continue. ")
if answer8 == 1:
    if deep <= 5 and deep >=0:
        print("\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nYou made it across.")
        input("\n\nPress ENTER to continue. ")
    else:
        print("\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThere has been an accendint.")
        input("\n\nPress ENTER to continue. ")
if answer8 == 2:
    if deep >=6:
        print("\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nYou made it across.")
        input("\n\nPress ENTER to continue. ")
    else:
        print("\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThere has been an accendint.")
        input("\n\nPress ENTER to continue. ")
input("\n\nPress ENTER to exit. ")


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Mar 31 19:33:35 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 19:33:35 -0400
Subject: Program Error Help - Python 3.1
In-Reply-To: <dcb10baa-0fe8-4395-8f3d-f9a6acc4b4f5@googlegroups.com>
References: <dcb10baa-0fe8-4395-8f3d-f9a6acc4b4f5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <obmp0a$plj$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 3/31/2017 7:12 PM, 2019.cavanaughc at fpsedu.org wrote:
> Hello I've been coding for about 1 or 2 months

If at all possible, start with 3.6, not 3.1.

> and i have encountered a problem with a 'while' statement.

You should assume that your code is buggy.  That is true even of experts.

 > It keeps looping even when the statement is false,

False.

> here is the code.
> while answer8 != ("1") or answer8 != ("2"):

which is always True.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From larry.martell at gmail.com  Fri Mar 31 19:38:35 2017
From: larry.martell at gmail.com (Larry Martell)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 23:38:35 +0000
Subject: Program Error Help - Python 3.1
In-Reply-To: <dcb10baa-0fe8-4395-8f3d-f9a6acc4b4f5@googlegroups.com>
References: <dcb10baa-0fe8-4395-8f3d-f9a6acc4b4f5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CACwCsY7df5Lrm_6GMt3Hbwv_x+5LRhBwmUVH4r3+ggPcGq06rw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 4:16 PM <2019.cavanaughc at fpsedu.org> wrote:

> while answer8 != ("1") or answer8 != ("2"):


This statement is always true. Think about it.

>
>


From cs at zip.com.au  Fri Mar 31 19:42:48 2017
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2017 10:42:48 +1100
Subject: Program Error Help - Python 3.1
In-Reply-To: <dcb10baa-0fe8-4395-8f3d-f9a6acc4b4f5@googlegroups.com>
References: <dcb10baa-0fe8-4395-8f3d-f9a6acc4b4f5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20170331234248.GA59845@cskk.homeip.net>

On 31Mar2017 16:12, 2019.cavanaughc at fpsedu.org <2019.cavanaughc at fpsedu.org> wrote:
>Hello I've been coding for about 1 or 2 months and i have encountered a problem with a 'while' statement. It keeps looping even when the statement is false, here is the code. The code is for a game that I'm making that resembles the Oregon Trial.

Obviously the statement (well, "test") isn't false! Let's look:

[...]
>answer8 = ""
>while answer8 != ("1") or answer8 != ("2"):
[...]

Answer8 cannot be both "1" and also "2". Therefore, it will always _not_ be 
equal to at least one of "1" and "2". Therefore this test is always true.

You might better write this:

  while answer8 not in ("1", "2"):

or:

  while not( answer8 == "1" or answer8 == "2" ):

BTW, you need to decide whther you're working in strings or integers. input() 
in Python 3 returns a string. If you want to test against strings, fine.

However, if you want to test against numbers you need to convert the string to 
a number:

  answer8n = int(answer8)

and then test against answer8n.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>


From carl.caulkett at gmail.com  Fri Mar 31 20:03:56 2017
From: carl.caulkett at gmail.com (Carl Caulkett)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 19:03:56 -0500
Subject: VirtualEnvs (venv) and Powershell
Message-ID: <VrednSJsCM_xc0PFnZ2dnUU78UPNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>

Hello everyone,

I've just started to investigate VirtualEnvironments as a means of
preventing my 3rd party code becoming chaotic. I've discovered that
venv's can be managed quite effectively using Powershell. When
Activate.ps1 is run, the PowerShell changes to indicate that the venv
is active which is nice. However despite the official documention,
there doesn't seem to be a corresponding Deactivate.ps1. There is a
deactivate.bat but that doesn't appear to switch the paths back to
their pre-env state.
   What I would really like is a Git-Bash based alternative to
Powershell to manage my Virtual Environments. Has anyone dicovered
tools or techniques to achieve this?

Thanks for any response

-- 
Carl


From rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com  Fri Mar 31 21:17:26 2017
From: rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com (Rick Johnson)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 18:17:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.136.1490852628.2634.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.38.1490547441.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58d80413$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAE6NSRDpdadqORG1w0529bvvw_Gkoau8xTga3LYS=LfGCmXuqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmojKPE3d4y5YEJJuGer174Yv0ZcobJGOp8rmYgYYYefbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.57.1490558002.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <626fc6cf-0cf9-4efa-a3ff-f9ca2ddcb7fd@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmqDU1Wr4y0G=BmYCjEdKLC0_Ch-fNoM2cOykX1vB5B-5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.136.1490852628.2634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ee1ada22-ce6c-4e21-b5ae-cbbbaca0b8ba@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 12:43:59 AM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Except that it doesn't actually take very much work to call
> on someone else's library, which is what you get when you
> use Unicode properly. (At least, assuming you're using a
> decent language like Python, which comes with Unicode
> libraries, and a decent GUI toolkit if you're going that
> way.)

Really. Since when does Python come with a "decent GUI kit"?

> Nope. I can't speak Mandarin, but I can make absolutely
> sure that all my programs can accept Chinese characters. A
> friend of mine sent me an audio file with a name that
> included some Chinese, and I was able to handle it no
> problem.

Most people just quietly change the filename and move on,
but if you want to spend the extra time worrying about every
foreign charactor, you certainly have that right. But you
don't have a right to lecture everyone else about your new
found religion.

Sometimes, as we pat our self-righteous selves on the back,
we forget that our incessant proselytizing for the "religion
of inclusivity" is only helping multi-national corporations
attain evermore market share (...somewhere, in a corporate
penthouse perched high above the peasants who scurry below,
a CEO dons a most devilish grin...). The iPhone has come to
dominate every market in the world. And in some ways (being
a revolutionary device and all) this is good, however there
are downsides to this complete and total domination. Indeed,
the iPhone customer has become something of a bedazzled
twit, lusting after whatever superficial marking ploys are
pulled from Jobs' decomposing arse. What does this have to
do with coders, you ask? Well, we are merely pawns in a
greater game...

> >> [ ] Uses no diacritical marks
> >
> > Why is it my responsibility to encode my text with
> > pronunciation tutorials? Are we adults here or what?
> >
> >> [ ] Writes all text top-to-bottom, left-to-right
> >
> > Not my problem. Learn the King's English or go wait for
> > extinction to arrive.
>
> And these two cement your parochialism thoroughly in
> everyone's minds. "Pronunciation tutorials", eh? Sure. Tell
> that to everyone who speaks Spanish, Turkish, Norwegian,
> German, or Vietnamese, all of which use diacritical marks
> to distinguish between letters. English is the weird
> language in that it uses letter pairs instead of adorned
> letters (eg "ch" and "sh" instead of "?" and "?").

Well, it seems the designers of English knew a thing or two
about time machines long before GvR did. Hmm, that makes
wonder if ol' GvR ever worked at a patent office...?

> Also, which king are you referring to, exactly? Whose
> English do you speak?

Only "right-proper English", old chap. ;-)

> > The only justification required is the bottom line. If your
> > products generate profit, then you're doing something
> > right. Besides, you don't need _everyone_ on the planet to
> > buy your product to be a success. Unlike the business
> > practices of Apple, we would be wise to leave plenty of
> > room for others to enter the market. Competition is good
> > for everyone. Monopolies are evil.
>
> Riiiiiight. What's the "bottom line" for open source
> software? How do you measure whether your product is
> generating a profit or not?

Easy. You count the number of active community members. You
also closely observe the "community health tends" over time.
Having a small community today is not necessarily a bad
thing if the community is healthy and growing. OTOH, a large
unhealthy community today could be a ghost town tomorrow.
Biologist refer to that phenomenon as extinction. Which is
neither good nor profitable.

Rectangular sheets of paper with dead presidents printed on
them are not the only source of profits. Crowd sourcing can
be quite a profitable enterprise even in the absence of
money -- that is, *IF*, and only *IF* -- you invest the time
required to lower barriers of entry and foster participation
from diverse external sources. Social homogeny and
intellectual isolation lead to collective oblivion.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Mar 31 21:31:27 2017
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2017 12:31:27 +1100
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <ee1ada22-ce6c-4e21-b5ae-cbbbaca0b8ba@googlegroups.com>
References: <CAE6NSRD=LLyj2qdBR_YX_MkubocQCURVivkHg=+62qgZZ3qCQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmo6mxAxKQgqNRLFoX6EAnRrwoK6B8f7ids_RbWQ8VoiYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE6NSRDsN8vTPkt4E4LU6JGMEqUME3DQ73GPZ-f_7uVCR-aGrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.38.1490547441.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58d80413$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAE6NSRDpdadqORG1w0529bvvw_Gkoau8xTga3LYS=LfGCmXuqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmojKPE3d4y5YEJJuGer174Yv0ZcobJGOp8rmYgYYYefbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.57.1490558002.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <626fc6cf-0cf9-4efa-a3ff-f9ca2ddcb7fd@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmqDU1Wr4y0G=BmYCjEdKLC0_Ch-fNoM2cOykX1vB5B-5Q@mail.gmail.com>
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On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Rick Johnson
<rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 12:43:59 AM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> Except that it doesn't actually take very much work to call
>> on someone else's library, which is what you get when you
>> use Unicode properly. (At least, assuming you're using a
>> decent language like Python, which comes with Unicode
>> libraries, and a decent GUI toolkit if you're going that
>> way.)
>
> Really. Since when does Python come with a "decent GUI kit"?

I didn't say it came with one; I said you should use (a) a decent
language, and (b) a decent GUI toolkit. Both do exist, but with
Python, the best GUI toolkits are installed with pip rather than being
part of the standard library.

>> Nope. I can't speak Mandarin, but I can make absolutely
>> sure that all my programs can accept Chinese characters. A
>> friend of mine sent me an audio file with a name that
>> included some Chinese, and I was able to handle it no
>> problem.
>
> Most people just quietly change the filename and move on,
> but if you want to spend the extra time worrying about every
> foreign charactor, you certainly have that right. But you
> don't have a right to lecture everyone else about your new
> found religion.

I suppose you'd be okay with all file names being upper-case 8.3
format, and that anyone who wants mixed case and/or longer names
should have no right to lecture people either.

>> > The only justification required is the bottom line. If your
>> > products generate profit, then you're doing something
>> > right. Besides, you don't need _everyone_ on the planet to
>> > buy your product to be a success. Unlike the business
>> > practices of Apple, we would be wise to leave plenty of
>> > room for others to enter the market. Competition is good
>> > for everyone. Monopolies are evil.
>>
>> Riiiiiight. What's the "bottom line" for open source
>> software? How do you measure whether your product is
>> generating a profit or not?
>
> Easy. You count the number of active community members. You
> also closely observe the "community health tends" over time.
> Having a small community today is not necessarily a bad
> thing if the community is healthy and growing. OTOH, a large
> unhealthy community today could be a ghost town tomorrow.
> Biologist refer to that phenomenon as extinction. Which is
> neither good nor profitable.
>
> Rectangular sheets of paper with dead presidents printed on
> them are not the only source of profits. Crowd sourcing can
> be quite a profitable enterprise even in the absence of
> money -- that is, *IF*, and only *IF* -- you invest the time
> required to lower barriers of entry and foster participation
> from diverse external sources. Social homogeny and
> intellectual isolation lead to collective oblivion.

I think you need to define the bottom line with something more stable
than a greased roller skating rink.

ChrisA


From python at deborahswanson.net  Fri Mar 31 21:34:02 2017
From: python at deborahswanson.net (Deborah Swanson)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 18:34:02 -0700
Subject: Developing a Python JIT and have trouble
In-Reply-To: <bc1fc8ae-42cf-407e-a546-e2cc8e63a5b8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <009201d2aa88$0b900df0$27b23dae@sambora>

Yuheng Zou wrote, on Friday, March 31, 2017 6:52 AM
> 
> I am building a Python JIT, so I want to change the 
> interp->eval_frame to my own function.
> 
> I built a C++ library which contains EvalFrame function, and 
> then use dlopen and dlsym to use it. It looks like this:
> 
> extern "C" PyObject *EvalFrame(PyFrameObject *f, int throwflag) {
>     return _PyEval_EvalFrameDefault(f, throwflag);
> }
> I added following code to Python/pylifecycle.c at function 
> _Py_InitializeEx_Private(Python version is 3.6.1):
> 
> void *pyjit = NULL;
> pyjit = dlopen("../cmake-build-debug/libPubbon.dylib", 0);
> if (pyjit != NULL) {
>     interp->eval_frame = (_PyFrameEvalFunction)dlsym(pyjit, 
> "EvalFrame");
>     //interp->eval_frame = _PyEval_EvalFrameDefault;
> } 
> Then something strange happened. I used LLDB to trace the 
> variables. When it ran at EvalFrame, the address of f pointer 
> didn't change, but f->f_lineno changed.
> 
> Then when I ran python.exe, I got Segmentation Fault.
> 
> Why the address of the pointer didn't change, but the context change?
> 
> I am working on Mac OS X and Python 3.6.1. I want to know how 
> to replace _PyEval_EvalFrameDefault in interp->eval_frame 
> with my own function.

Hi Yuheng,

There might be some C coders on this list, maybe even a few who are
proficient in both C & Python. But this list is predominantly made up of
Python coders, and you may not get a reply. Personally, I don't know C
well enough nor am I familiar with the EvalFrame you mention to respond
to your question.

Shiboya



From rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com  Fri Mar 31 22:00:22 2017
From: rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com (Rick Johnson)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 19:00:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
In-Reply-To: <58dcbaaf$0$2751$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
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 <mailman.29.1490542635.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <58d7fdc3$0$1617$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmre1fm2n6o5t3H6+YkomseQrXunTWmp=58BEmnhEgL23w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.49.1490552469.2634.python-list@python.org>
 <3fda49ff-1907-493c-a465-7e68bb86b7b1@googlegroups.com>
 <58dcbaaf$0$2751$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <5b2cca48-1fda-4474-9f1f-a13db682a740@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 2:58:53 AM UTC-5, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 20:53:35 -0700, Rick Johnson wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 1:21:18 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
> >> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 4:43 AM, Steve D'Aprano <steve+python at pearwood.info> wrote:

[...]

> > You place a lot of faith in the supposed "immutability of
> > Unicode code points", but a lot people have placed a lot
> > of faith in many past and current encoding systems, only
> > to be bamboozled by the gatekeepers some time later.
>
> So far, Unicode has kept that promise not to move or rename
> code points.

Promises are not worth the paper they are written on -- unless
you have them officially notarize, then they might be worth
"something".

> They haven't done so even when they've made embarrassing
> mistakes, like giving characters the completely wrong name.

So they're screw-ups, but at least they're "honest screwups"?
MmmKay. Got it.

> That makes Unicode more stable than ASCII, which has gone
> through a number of incompatible changes since the very
> first version back in 1963 (I think it was 63?).

Why does every comparison of Unicode end with some cheap jab
at ASCII? It brings back horrible memories of Obama blaming
Bush for everything. I mean, sure, Bush was a total idiot
and he trampled the constitution with his Tony Lama's on
more than one occasion, but after the hundred-thousandth
time of hearing Obama decry "Hey, but Bush did it -- WAH!",
it starts to get really old, really fast. At some point,
both Obama and Unicode have to put their big boy pants on
and take responsibility for their own mistakes and short
comings. And with the Trump election and the Brexit
referendum, we can see that Obama took it on the shorts.

> To put it another way:
>
> Unicode character ? (U+0414 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER DE) is
> no more likely to change to another character than ASCII
> character 0x41 is likely to change from "A" to "Z".
> Trusting the stability of Unicode is a pretty safe bet.

I don't understand how that argument supports your beloved
Unicode over ASCII?

> > And so, although Unicode was created to solve the endless
> > compatibility problems between multiple archaic encoding
> > systems, the designers thought it necessary to add a
> > "custom space" that will keep the incompatibilities on
> > life support.
>
> No, that's not how it works. The PUAs really are for
> *PRIVATE* use. If your in-house application wants some
> dedicated, custom characters (say, for your company logo),
> there are three ways you can do it, starting from the
> dumbest:
>
> - pick some existing code point that you think nobody will
> ever use, like "Q" say, and turn that into your logo;
>
> - pick some *currently* unused code point, and hope that it
> will not become used;
>
> - pick a code point from the PUA which is permanently
> reserved for private use by private agreement.
>
> You can't expect other people's applications to treat that
> code point as your logo (or whatever special purpose you
> give it), but that's okay, you couldn't expect that in any
> case.

The problem is, as has always been the case with encodings,
is that some random dev will create a so-called "private"
code point, and others, liking what they see, will adopt the
same code point into their own projects. And after enough of
these "emulations" occur, you've created a new unofficial de
facto standard. And we're all back to square one again.

Another possibility, and one that this community is all to
familiar with, is that the Unicode gatekeepers could
intentionally isolate themselves from the user base and
withdraw into their ivory towers, thereby creating a large
swath of disillusioned folks who look to the PUA for their
collective salvation. And again, we are back to square one.

It could be that the PUA is to Unicode what type-hints are
to Python. Something to think about...

> One of the excellent ways the PUAs have been used is by
> medieval researchers. They have been collecting the various
> special characters used by medieval scribes, and by private
> agreement putting them into a PUA area where special
> purpose software can use it. That way they can determine
> which of the thousands of special characters used by
> medieval monks are actually significant enough to graduate
> to genuine Unicode characters, and which are best handled
> some other way.

And what if the gatekeepers refuse to graduate those special
chars? And what if, in response, the natives become
restless? A revolt. That's what! And their liberty will be
found not in the new lands, but in the PUA.